#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 10.14 RMU:Fort Worth cop kills Atatiana Jefferson; Guyger judge speaks; Black clergy vs Word Network

Episode Date: October 15, 2019

10.14.19 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Fort Worth cop kills Atatiana Jefferson in her own home; Amber Guyger judge, Tammi Kemp speaks; More than 100 prominent Black clergy have signed a petition calling for a boycott of the Word Network; WTH?!? Trump supporters release video of a fake #45 shooting news media; Georgia cop fount not guilty of Murder for killing Anthony Hill All that and more today on #RolandMartinUnfiltered - #RolandMartinUnfiltered partner: Life Luxe Jazz Life Luxe Jazz is the experience of a lifetime, delivering top-notch music in an upscale destination. The weekend-long event is held at the Omnia Dayclub Los Cabos, which is nestled on the Sea of Cortez in the celebrity playground of Los Cabos, Mexico. For more information visit the website at lifeluxejazz.com. Can't make it to Los Cabos for the Life Luxe Jazz Fest? Get your live stream pass at https://gfntv.com/ - #RolandMartinUnfiltered partner: 420 Real Estate, LLC To invest in 420 Real Estate’s legal Hemp-CBD Crowdfunding Campaign go to http://marijuanastock.org - #RolandMartinUnfiltered partner: Ebony Foundation | Home by the Holiday Home by the Holiday aims to reunite Black and Latino families separated by bail, while challenging racial injustice and mass incarceration. For more info visit https://www.homebytheholiday.com/ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami Martin! Today is Monday, October 14th, 2019. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, Fort Worth police, the cop who shot and killed Atiana Jefferson has resigned. The chief said he was going to get fired. The city is moving aggressively to tamp down this growing controversy.

We'll explain it all to you. The black judge at the Amber Geiger trial, boy, she got lots of criticism for hugging Amber Geiger in the courtroom. Well, Judge Tammy Kemp is here and will share her thoughts with us about all the controversy surrounding that particular case. Black pastors want you to boycott the word network. We'll tell you exactly why. Another white police officer found not guilty of felony murder for shooting a black man. We'll break that story down for you. It comes out of Atlanta. Plus, what is going

on with these violent Trump voters? We'll show you a video they produced they thought was funny. They even called the White House to have to condemn it. And of course, today is Columbus Day. We don't give a damn. We don't celebrate it. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. He's got it. Whatever the mess, he't celebrate it. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. to politics with entertainment just for kicks he's rolling yeah

it's Uncle Roro y'all yeah yeah it's Rolling Martin yeah yeah

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the best you know he's Rolling Martin now He's funky, he's fresh, he's real, the best, you know he's rolling, Martin. Martin. A white Fort Worth, Texas police officer who shot and killed a black woman over the weekend, he is no longer with the force.

He resigned today, but the police chief there said he did so before he was going to get fired. Atiana Jefferson was in her home shortly after 2 a.m. on Saturday night when a neighbor, James Smith, called police, not an emergency number, concerned and asked for a welfare check because he noticed her door had been open since around 10 p.m. He called to make sure she was all right. Unfortunately, she is dead. Of course, it was a tragic shooting that took place over the weekend. Police did not wait long to release the body cam footage that took place. We're about to show you this body cam footage.

Warning you right now, it, of course, is graphic. We want to warn you. If you want to turn away, that's fine. Go right ahead and do so. But this is what took place in Fort Worth shortly after 2 a.m. Kjell Krona Hmm? Put your hands up! Show me your hands! Aaron Dean on the police force, not even two years, never identified himself. He was standing outside of the home, fired through the window, killing Artelna Jefferson. She was in her home and she was playing video games with her nephew. Today, Fort Worth Police and the city's mayor and the

city manager moved very quickly after lots of protests that took place over the past 24 hours to address this issue. This was their news conference. Today, Mayor Price is going to give initial statements, followed by Chief Krause, who will give an update on the investigation. And David Cook will have a brief statement after that. If y'all would hold your questions until the end, then we will be able to take some questions of any of the three that you'd like to ask questions to. With that, we'll go ahead and introduce Mayor Price.

Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you all for being here. We wanted to take this opportunity to talk a little bit about Saturday night, Saturday morning, what happened and Mrs. Jefferson's death. But before Chief and City Manager speak, I wanted to say a few things to my city. We are all heartbroken today. Atiana was a beautiful, smart, amazing young woman, by all accounts, who was unjustly taken from her family. The entire city is in pain. As a mother, a grandmother, a sister, an aunt, I can't imagine anything worse, and I'm so sorry.

On behalf of the entire city of Fort Worth, I'm sorry. To Atiana's family, it's unacceptable. There is nothing that could justify what happened on Saturday morning. Nothing. To Mr. James Smith, I know you're hurting today as well. You called police as we ask good neighbors to do. You were being that wonderful neighbor, the one that we all want next door to us, the type of person who does what's right in Fort Worth. Atiana's death has left you totally shaken and your sense of security and trust in law enforcement

jeopardized, and I'm sorry to Atiano's nephew who witnessed the unspeakable loss. Sorry doesn't cut it. The entire city needs to surround this young man with prayer, support and anything that his family needs. Lastly the image is released showing the gun inside Ms. Jefferson's home. The gun is irrelevant. She was in her own home caring for an eight-year-old nephew. Atiana was a victim. She was taken from her family in circumstances that are truly unthinkable.

I'm listening and hearing our community, my home. There's heartbreak, but healing and renewal of trust will come. It'll take a significant amount of work from all of us, and it must be done day by day, a step at a time, action by action, and it won't stop until we have justice and closure for Atiana's family to rebuild a sense of trust for the community and with our police department. Mere words are not enough. We are taking immediate action. You will hear from the chief and city manager in a few moments. City leadership has set in place motions to bring a third-party panel of national experts to review this department. City Manager Cook will have more specifics for you in a minute. I would say, act justly, love mercy, walk humbly. Those words from scriptures are short and poignant on a

day like today. Our community is mourning and hurting. Everyone expects justice, no matter how you define justice. This council, this city, and this police department will live humbly and provide the justice. Justice is critical here. We know we cannot bring back this young woman who was taken all too soon, but this is a pivotal moment for a city that will and can come together, and we will take actions swiftly and with transparency. Thank you all for caring. Let's wrap this family in love and prayers. Chief Krause. Thank You Mayor. Before I provide an update I'd first like to extend my sincerest sympathies to the family of Tatiana Jefferson.

Her father called this shooting senseless, and I certainly have not been able to make sense of why she had to lose her life. On behalf of the men and women of the Fort Worth Police Department, I'm so sorry for what occurred. You, Tatiana's family and friends, have my apologies, my condolences, and my prayers. We've received many calls from the community expressing their concerns and demands, and I assure you as chief of this department, I share those concerns, and I demand a thorough, transparent, and speedy investigation.

This will not be an opportunity for us to make excuses, but rather to investigate this case to the fullest, to provide the justice we all seek for Tatiana. Our officer involved shootings are investigated by both our major case unit which investigates the criminal aspect of the case and our internal affairs unit which investigates administrative policy and training violations. These investigations occur concurrently but separately. I will outline where we are with both investigations at this point.

The Internal Affairs Unit responded to the scene of the shooting. Their role is to observe the on-scene investigation, but they take a back seat to the criminal investigation being conducted by the Major case unit. The officer who shot a Tatiana was served his written administrative complaint on Sunday. At that time, he was also placed on detached duty, stripped of his badge and firearm. My intent was to meet with him today to terminate his employment with the Fort Worth Police Department. However, the officer tendered his resignation this morning before we met. Even though we no longer

works for the city, we will continue the administrative investigation as if he did. The case will be completed and reviewed by the chain of command. Had the officer not resigned, I would have fired him for violations of several policies, including our use of force policy, our de-escalation policy, and unprofessional conduct. Statements of that effect will be placed within the investigation to serve as a written record of that determination. Additionally, the separation paperwork that is sent to the state licensing agency, the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement, will reflect that he was

dishonorably discharged from employment with the Fort Worth Police Department. Now that the officer has resigned, he no longer has the protections of state civil service law. Therefore, I can now release his name. Aaron Dean, ID 4598, was the officer who responded to the call and fired the shot that killed Tatiana. He was hired by the department on August 21, 2017, and commissioned as a licensed peace officer on April 13, 2018. Despite his resignation, the officer still faces criminal charges from the major case investigation. I personally checked on the progress of that case repeatedly and I anticipate a substantial update to provide you no later than tomorrow. Additionally, we have also presented a

preliminary case to the FBI to review the officers actions for possible civil rights violations. None of this information can ease the pain of Atachiana's family, but I hope it shows the community that we take these incidents seriously. We will continue to provide updates as they become available. Thank you. As stated by both Mayor Price and Chief Krause, my thoughts and prayers go out to Ms. Jefferson's family. Natanya's death should not have happened. And on behalf of the city of Fort Worth, I am truly sorry.

The community has called for independent review of the police department. I would like to take a minute to provide an update on our process to bring on an independent police monitor. And that was a recommendation by the Race and Culture Task Force and approved by the City Council through the city's recently adopted budget. We are on track to having candidates for the position in Fort Worth for interviews in November. As part of the process we were working on having a third party group of national experts come in to review current police policies and training practices to ensure best practices are in place as the monitor begins his or her work. The city manager's office will take the lead in this effort and of course it will

include the participation of the police department. Currently we are reaching out to experts in the field and once we finalize our plan and recommendation we'll be presenting that to the city council in the next few weeks. Thank you. Part of the city's news conference, activists in the family of the woman who was killed, they actually held their own news conference. Civil rights attorney for the family. You're going to be hearing from members of the community of Fort Worth. You'll be hearing from the family of who they affectionately

call Tay Jefferson. And we'll be taking some time to answer some questions for you all. I want to go ahead and dispel the myth that this is somehow a one-off, that this was just a bad luck incident from an otherwise sound department. The Fort Worth Police Department is on pace to be one of the deadliest police departments in the United States. They're in need of serious systematic reform. We are asking that the federal government comes in, the Department of Justice comes in and takes a conscious look at the policies and procedures that allowed something like this tragedy to happen. This was a wellness call.

It's beyond me to begin to understand what kind of police force responds to a wellness call with the equivalent of SWAT. This department and their officers violated not only the rights of Tay Jefferson and her family, but they just made common sense mistakes. They passed an open door. They failed to announce themselves. They passed a second open door. They failed to announce themselves. They creeped around the back of the apartment and entered a closed gate.

They didn't have probable cause at this point from what the neighbor told them to even enter that property. They began creeping around and it created a deadly situation. The idea that they have blasted images of a firearm across the internet is obscene. Of course, a family owns a firearm. Of course, firearms are used to protect individuals from predators prowling about their property. That's only common sense. They created a deadly situation and they responded in a way that is not unique to the city of Fort Worth. In the last six months, they've had 10 officer-involved shootings, seven officer-involved deaths. That's more than most nations for a single city in Texas.

It represents a serious problem that must be addressed. So, of course, this family is calling for the firing of this officer. That's benign. That's the least we should expect. They're calling for this officer to be vigorously prosecuted, to be appropriately sentenced. That prosecution, the investigation should be handled by someone other than the Fort Worth Police Department, specifically the Department of Justice, the FBI, or worst case scenario, the local sheriff's department. Anyone other than the Department of Justice, the FBI, or worst case scenario, the local sheriff's department. Anyone other than the city of Fort Worth who is clearly incompetent to investigate itself should be called in.

We expect this to happen immediately. This happened Saturday. Why this man is not in handcuffs right now is a source of continued agitation for this family and for this community, and it must be addressed in a moment all right folks the police department even though the police chief spoke at that news conference with the mayor as well as the city manager they held their own news conference all right folks and so um let me uh well first i thought thought we had the police department's news conference. Let's go to a couple of folks who are in Fort Worth.

First off, we have, of course, Corey Hughes, a community activist, as well as Pastor Rodney McIntosh. Corey, I want to start with you. Fort Worth's history. First of all, Fort Worth previously had a black police chief, and when they essentially fired him when he was seeking the Baltimore police commissioner's job. Here you have a situation where you've had multiple shootings take place. Now they're calling in monitors to national experts to assess what's happening what was happened there i mean frankly this should have happened before this uh fatal shooting yeah absolutely roland i think um

you know just to be quite frank with you i've spoken to former chief joel fishger a couple of times and um the reality is one of the reasons that they wanted to push him out is because I think in his own way, he realized that he was fighting against a system that has been in place in the city of Fort Worth for a very long time. Anybody that knows anything about Fort Worth, Texas knows it's a good old boy system that is not very favorable to African-Americans. We were extremely surprised when they brought in a black chief. Oh, it looks like Corey's video has frozen. There we go. Okay. Now we have you back. Go ahead, Corey. Your video froze there. Oh, I'm sorry about that. And so, yeah, we, you know, they just really, you know, Fitzgerald was really trying his best to make changes. He wasn't perfect, but I think he was trying to do his best for our community in the situation that he was in. And so they quickly got rid of him because he was holding their feet to the fire as it relates to some of the tactics that they use,

the policing tactics that have been in breath in this in this department for a very long time. Pastor McIntosh. Folks, I can barely hear Pastor McIntosh. Go ahead, start again. Go ahead. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Go ahead. I say I, too, kind of feel the way Corey feels growing up in this city and seeing the same Go ahead. many shootings and that many killings just in one year. And to know that since the African-American chief is left,

we've had six or seven killings or six or seven shootings. Man, it's troubling. And for our community, it seems like we actually don't have a win. If we call the police to help us, we could still end up killed. So we're at this place where we're trying to find out which way do we go because we can no longer trust the police in this city. So as a people, we have to do other things. And the thing that troubles me is even when they talk about the police oversight and the monitor,

it's not going to do us any good if the police monitor actually has to be somebody that's employed by the city. We've been fighting to try to get them to hire somebody or allow us to have subpoena power as a community. Yet that's something that they're not willing to do. So even with them bringing in those monitors, it still leaves our hands tied. So I agree this is something that should have been done. Actually, I believe Jaquavian was shot. It was something that should have been done

or something that should have been looked at. So I feel like, man, we're several lives too late. Corey, I'm quite familiar, obviously, with Fort Worth. I spent time, two and a half years, as a city hall reporter at the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in the early to mid-'90s. When we talk about what is next, obviously the city moved quickly to move to fire this officer. He resigned before he could be fired. But still what's troubling is he hasn't been

charged yet. I mean, the police chief said that they're pursuing charges, but if you have enough evidence to fire a guy, how do you not have enough evidence to charge him? Now, indictment by the DA, by the grand jury is totally different. But to not charge him... Corey, go ahead.

Looks like we froze. Pastor McIntosh, I just want to get your thoughts there, that the officer has not been arrested yet. Yes, I know, and that also amazes me or bothers me, because I agree with you. If you have enough evidence to find, or if you can actually even at the press conference admit that he's done something wrong,

I'm trying to find out why he has not been charged either. But not only were we bothered about the fact that now he has not been charged, I'm also bothered by the fact that it took him this long to release his name, to release his identity, because in our anxiety, I've spoken and I've told him, if somebody outside of, somebody in our community would have did what he did, we would have knew all of that information within hours.

So we've got to find out what we can do to change these policies and these laws that allow them to be protected the way they are, because he should have never been given the opportunity to resign. He should have been fired the next day, and he should have already been charged with murder. And I say murder because I don't want them to try to tell us that it was manslaughter, it was an accident. You cannot come to somebody else's house and shoot in the window not knowing who you're shooting at and take a life and expect us to continue to allow this to go on.

So I totally agree with you. I wonder why he's not been charged with murder. And as a leader in our community, man, we're going to continue to fight and be consistent in our fight until we see them literally charged with murder. And we're going to have to put pressure on our DA, too, because in our anxiety, Fort Worth is a city that is not known for actually pressing charges against the Fort Worth Police Department. All right, then. Pastor McIntosh, Corey Hughes, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much for joining us. I'm sure we'll be talking to you more in the next few days. I want to introduce our panel right now. Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeaver, political strategist as well as

leadership strategist. Also, Julianne Malveaux, Dr. Julianne Malveaux, economist, president, emerita, Bennett College, Julianne Boykin, founder and chairman, Young Republicans of Southern Maryland. Avis, when you see this story, a phenomenal young woman, Xavier University graduate, at home enjoying just a night with her nephew. And you heard the mayor talk about it, but this young man has to live with what he witnessed. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I watched some of the family's press conference today, and it was heartbreaking to hear that her little nephew was in the room the entire time. They both heard noises outside. He wanted to look in the window and she stopped him to go look in the window to investigate and that's when she was murdered he

witnessed the entire thing this little eight-year-old boy will never get over that never and I don't I don't understand why they've not only allowed this person to resign versus fire him but but as you've mentioned, now he's a free man. He can be anywhere. What's stopping him from leaving the state and fleeing? He needs to be arrested. He needs to be in jail now because this was nothing but cold blooded murder. Julian, this cop, Aaron Dean, former cop, joined the force April 2018. I mean, so when you think about that, when you think about and when you watch that video, at no point does he yell police. No.

I mean, he never identifies himself. And if you're this woman, who the hell is outside of my house with a flashlight and a gun pointing into my home? Roland, three things. Number one, we need to look at who is on the police forces. You have these people. He's young. It's not an excuse, but he's been there a year. He obviously has not been trained because he doesn't have any sense.

How do you do that? That's one. Just a whole notion of police training. Number two, since a girl was in her own self home, I'm I'm bleeding. Really, when I saw that, I was bleeding about this. And what I'm thinking is that why did he within less than 30 seconds shoot it was actually about six seconds without identifying himself so that again it's a training thing but also the um bias thing and the number three as avis has said this young boy this eight-year-old who watched his aunt being massacred, what will we do for him? So there is just so much here to talk about, but not really to talk about, but to really deal with. And then, Roland, oftentimes we talk about these police shootings.

We talk about black men. This is an opportunity to talk about the many ways that black women, that black women are massacred. And I say this in the name of Mary Turner, lynched in 1919 because she stood up because her husband

was lynched. And she was lynched. They're so, you know, we had all these lynchings. First of all, you got Rekia, but first of all, you don't gotta go to lynch. You don't gotta go to lynched. And she was lynched. They're so, you know, we had all these lynchings. Well, first of all, you get Rekia, but first of all, you don't got to go to lynch. You don't got to go to lynching. Rekia Boyd, shot and killed by Dante's servant in Chicago. Yeah. She gets shot in the head. They don't charge him properly.

He walks. Ayanna Jones in Detroit. Yeah. Exact same thing happened there. And so, Julian, there are a number of these incidences. But still, what is common here is, whether it's a black woman or a black man, black is the most common thing when it comes to these cops. And again, they see us and it's shoot first. Yes.

Then we'll deal with everything else later. Yeah. Julian, hold on one second. Julian, let me get you in. I think something needs to be done about it. As a millennial, a lot of young people to the point now where it is like, hey, you know, the worst that can happen is I die. The best thing that can happen is I kill a cop, I go to prison as a hero. I mean, it's getting to that point because, excuse me, you can't, you know, you can't say, hey, let's put our faith in the legal system.

As we see, the legal system is not doing what they're supposed to do, which is serve and protect. So when I see the video, I look at it like, okay, what did he see? I never heard the officer identify himself. I never heard the officer call for backup or anything. What made the officer go snoop around the backyard normally? I thought the officer, they knock at your front door and tell someone. Right. They never knock.

They never knock. First of all, the video you're seeing right now, folks, pull it up. This is the graduation ceremony, I believe, when Aaron Dean graduated. And so that is him, the last, him right here, the third person, the first person from the right, that is Aaron Dean. And the thing here is, when you look at, I mean, you talk about every single practice broken. I mean, every single one here. I mean, Lee Mara said it. You're entering property for no probable cause.

It's a wellness check. How do you not knock on the front door and say, anyone home? I mean, if we think back to the video of the black woman in Billings, Montana, same thing. There was a door that was ajar, and the cops stepped in. I mean, I'm just not understanding at 2 o'clock in the morning, if they say a door is ajar, you don't... How is that not your first move? Now, this whole idea, well, you think somebody's broken into... You're going to scare the robbers

or whatever? It's just... And, of course, the guy who called said it opens at 10 o'clock. This is to him. That's four hours. Right. If the place got robbed, they're probably gone. No, I'm just saying they're probably gone. That's true. But you know, Roland, the issue is that they went

into a place where a black woman was, a black community, and did not do the appropriate warnings which you would have done anywhere else. Put your hands up. I'm a police officer. You know, no, the man never said he was a police.

He just massacred that woman. Massacred her. And you were outside the house, Ava. Yes. You're outside the house firing into the house. And you don't even know who the hell you're firing at. And there's been no report that says a gun was raised none of that that's exactly where i was going nothing that's exactly where i was going it is complete and utterly infuriating that the moment that they let this

video out which showed their incompetence at the same time they released this picture of this gun that was supposedly found in her home and i'm saying supposedly very um intentionally because we know that there are practices of police who keep extra guns in their cars all the time to plant in certain circumstances where they want to cover up what they did. But even if they didn't plant it, she has the right to own a gun and protect her home when she believes there are prowlers in her backyard. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened. And this man needs to be put under the jail right now. Now, the question is, again, what is he going to get charged with? That's going to be the question. Will it be murder? Will you will you charged with? That's going to be the question. Will it be murder? Will you see that?

That's going to be the question. We'll see actually what happens. Now the move is on the police department. Will they actually arrest Aaron Dean and charge him? Will he also be indicted by the Tarrant County grand jury? Don't forget. Don't forget. It's the same county that sent Crystal Mason to jail for five years for legal voting. Let's see what happens to this cop. Got to go to a break when

we come back. We're going to talk with Judge Tammy Kemp. She, of course, was a judge in the Amber Geiger trial. Many of you did not particularly like what happened after Geiger was found guilty and was sentenced. Well, you get to hear directly from the judge to explain herself. That's next. Roland Martin Unfiltered, back in a moment. You want to check out Roland Martin Unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there? Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's youtube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. All right, folks,

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Judge Tammy Kemp was the one who was sitting on the bench presiding over this trial and she of course has received lots of criticism and so we talked to her and she said we'd love to come on and share her thoughts about exactly what took place in her courtroom. Judge Kemp, welcome to Roller Martin Unfiltered. Oh thank you, thanks for having me. I want to start here first and foremost. We started this trial off. It was very interesting because a lot of people who were talking about you initially when you showed disdain or disgust with the Dallas County District Attorney for giving an interview the day before the trial. And so there were a lot of people who were saying, man, this black female judge, she doesn't play. Don't mess with her.

And you go from that to by the end of this trial, you had folks who were calling you all sorts of names, who were calling you coon, who were calling you a sellout, who were saying that you were aiding and abetting white supremacy. Um, how, how did you feel when this onslaught on social media, on radio, on television, all these different places where they were attacking you for what you did by showing, as you said this morning, to be on the Time Journal morning show, showing compassion to Amber Guy here. Well, the good thing was I didn't hear any of the attacks.

The trial concluded Wednesday afternoon. Thursday, I came into work to clean up some loose ends, and I went on a retreat to East Texas Friday morning. And I'm not on social media, so I did not hear the attacks. Saturday morning, when I was notified about the death of Joshua Brown, I was also told about the attacks on social media. And what I believed and thought was, A, I didn't realize that the victim impact statement had been aired on Court TV. But nevertheless, I don't think the persons who were attacking me had witnessed the victim impact statement on Court TV. Now, insofar as calling me a coon or a sellout, anyone that would say that about me does not know me. First and foremost, I'm a Christian. Then I'm an African-American.

And I don't think I behaved in any way that any other decent human being might not have behaved confronted with the same circumstances. My courtroom has never been filled with the level of emotion that compassion that was shocking, overwhelming, and just showed a lot of people, folks who don't even follow trials, it's not as if people really understand how cameras are allowed into the courtroom. And that's most important. I think that's first. But second of all, as this was going along, you had people who were really upset, people who were angry. Do you believe that the visceral reaction was a result of folks' anger, not just at what they saw you do, but because the jury chose to sentence her to just 10 years in prison? I think a large part of it had to do with the jury's 10-year

sentence. I think the vast majority of the people that were outside my courtroom chanting had expected a much longer sentence, and they were disappointed in the decision of the jury. I think for a lot of people, in essence, we've taken someone who represented almost a perfect sacrifice, Mr. Jean, and then we have the police officer who has obviously caused his death. And because we have such a long history of police officers not paying the price when they killed innocent Black men, I think the vast majority of persons expected something more. And I think some of the backlash has to do with just that raw emotion of not feeling as though justice was served in the death of Mr. Jean. That's part of it. And then the other part was

it was portrayed as though I went to Ms. Geiger and embraced her with a hug and nothing could have been further from the truth. What actually happened, as I do in every murder case, when all is said and done, the trial had been concluded, the victim impact statements had been given, I always go to the victim's family and express my condolences to them. And I usually say something to the person on their way to prison. In this instance, I visited with the Jeanne family. They are absolutely remarkable people, absolutely amazing. And their dignity and grace throughout this trial was just an example for all of us. And after I visited with each of them and hugged each of them, I was headed back to

my office and I just glanced at Ms. Geiger and I thought about the grace that Brant Jean had extended her. And I just said to her, Ms. Geiger, Mr. Jean has forgiven you. Please forgive yourself so that you can live a purposeful life when you get out of prison. And that's all I intended to say to her. And then she said to me, she asked me if I thought that her life could have purpose. And I said, of course it can. And she also asked me if I thought God would forgive her. And I said, yes, he will. And then she said to me, well, I don't own a Bible. I don't have a Bible. I don't know where to begin. And that's when I said, I'll get you a Bible.

And I did leave the courtroom and went to my chambers and retrieved my Bible. And I did point her to John 3, 16. I read it with her and I explained it to her. And I asked her to read it again and insert her name where it says the whosoever. So she could understand that God has done this for her as well. And she asked me a few other questions. I explained to her that she just needed a mustard seed amount of faith. Um, she had some other questions. Where do I go after I've read this? I told her to read the gospels. I told her, well, you really need a study Bible. This isn't a great Bible for somebody just starting out. And then she asked me if I would give her a hug. And I was taken aback. I've hugged a lot of defendants, but I've never hugged anyone on their way to prison. No one has ever asked me to give them a hug as they've been on their way to prison.

And when she asked a second time, I just thought, well, who am I to refuse this woman a hug? And so I said, yes, I will give you a hug. And that's what happened. So you mentioned going over the Bible verses with the guys. Go back to the video because I think at the moment you're going to actually see where the two of you embrace. You're sharing this with her.

We've had people who said separation of church and state. Go back to the video, please. Separation of church and state. Do you agree with that? They said, because here you were, the judge presiding over the case. We're playing the video right now where you're talking to her and

your Bible is open and everything that you just described is actually happening. Do you believe that should be the role of judges or do you believe that in hindsight this should have taken place outside the cameras? Were you even realizing the

cameras were still on, were actually showing this? I didn't realize that the cameras were still on, but it would not have mattered to me whether they were on or off. I'm not going to be any different behind the cameras than I am in front of them. I'm going to be the same person. And let's talk about this separation between the church and the state. There are two principles that need to be made clear here. First of all, the trial was concluded. All of my legal obligations were concluded. Second of all, as a judge, I have a responsibility to uphold a certain level of dignity 24 hours a day, every day where I go.

That doesn't preclude me from taking part in worship services and being a Christian. And if we're going to take it to that extreme, I don't know if we're going to have any persons to serve. So there cannot be an absolute separation of church and state in as much as my responsibilities to govern myself in a particular manner extend 24 hours a day. That would be unreasonable. But my legal responsibilities had concluded. That's why the victim impact statement can only take place after the sentence has been imposed. It is not on the record. It is not a part of the official court record. So I don't know what the ethics commission will decide, but I do not believe that I have violated my responsibility. A complaint was filed against you because of this hug. Go

ahead, go back to the video. And this, if I look at this whole exchange we're talking here about it was about four and a half minutes it's about four and a half minutes um and um and so I think again people may have seen a very quick uh clip uh versus seeing that whole where you really talk to her for about uh two minutes and 15 seconds. And we see, and playing the video right now, I mean, we see how you're very animated in talking with her. And let's talk about what that was, because a lot of people said that I was praying with her and talking with her.

When you see me being animated, Miss Geiger was complimenting me and telling me that I was such a good person, that I had been fair to her and that I was really good and I hadn't done anything wrong. And she was such a bad person. Now, what I said to her was, Miss Geiger, no one is perfect. Only Christ is perfect. And I basically just tried to do my job. And I told her, if all of our lives were put on display as hers has been, you would find something wrong with everybody's life. But that doesn't matter. Only Christ had to be perfect. And I told her, don't let Botham's death have been in vain. Please

be a better person coming out of prison than you are going in. And she told me she would bring my Bible back to me in 10 years. There also was another situation that happened in court actually before that, where one of the, was she a bailiff in your courtroom who was, who at one point we see her where she is, appears to be stroking the hair of Amber Geiger. And people just, I mean, lost it. They were saying that this I mean, the language that folks were using were saying how she was somehow she was somehow aiding white supremacy, how she was wrong for this. I mean, it was all sort of vicious things that were being said. I saw you on Tamron Hall's show where you wanted to make it perfectly clear

to explain what actually happened there. So can you explain to our audience what took place? Yes. And I really appreciate you educating the audience about these things because that's so crucial. If you'll recall, the guilty verdict for Ms. Geiger came about, I think I got notice from the bailiffs about 10, 15, 10, 20 or so. And it was about 11 o'clock that we presented the verdict of guilt for murder. Ms. Geiger had been on bond, which meant she was free to move about anywhere in the state of Texas for all intents and purposes, except she needed to be present during trial. Immediately after that verdict came in, I issued an order holding her bond insufficient, which meant she was no longer free to walk about.

But I also gave the attorneys a two-hour lunch break. And I knew that generally speaking, to process her through the Dallas County Jail would be about a three-hour time commitment. So I asked the bailiffs if they could get permission to keep Ms. Geiger in the courtroom and not process her until the end of the day. They did. And I limited her movements. What you see, and if you, I don't know what court TV broadcasts because I wasn't privy to it. But what you will see, if you were able to see it all, is that female bailiff, who happened to be an extra person coming to work in my court, she belongs to another court. But she gave Ms. Geiger the equivalent of what you or I might have received

should we be going through TSA. She patted her down, her entire person, and what you see when you say she's stroking her hair is her checking her hair for paraphernalia and or weapons. We have all manner of weapons and drugs and other paraphernalia taken into the county jail. And so any woman and or man who's booked in, their hair will be searched. If you have a wig on, it will be removed. If you have extensions, they will be examined. Your hair will be gone through to make certain you don't have any weapons or other paraphernalia that's entering the jail. And that's what you saw that bailiff do. And again, what was, what was, um, I mean, when you, you heard the guys go back to it. Um, I mean,

you have people who were calling her a mammy and they were I mean how did how did she take all of this how did she deal with all of this that you that you could talk to her that you could communicate with her actually shortly after this happened one of the bailiffs came to my chambers and said, Judge, there's a social media outlash about this particular bailiff having requested that Amber Geiger be detained there because they knew a thorough search could not have been done. And they wanted, should the issue come up with their employer, that I would communicate to her that this was on my order, that she was kept here in the courtroom. I talked to the bailiff. I told her, I said, I'm sorry I put you in this position. And she said, Judge, don't apologize. I'm going to do my job regardless. I'm sorry they don't understand. And that was the end of that.

A lot of people don't really understand the law. They don't understand what happens in courtrooms. They don't understand the nuance of the law. They don't understand what happens in courtrooms. They don't understand the nuance of the law. And I remember during this trial when you allowed the jury to consider the Castle Doctrine and folks just lost it. What is she doing? This is crazy. This wasn't Amber Geiger's home. How could she essentially assert a stand your ground law? And you said as a judge, you not only were thinking about the case, but you were thinking about the fact that this is likely going to get appealed if she's found guilty. So explain to the folks who don't understand the law,

who don't understand the Castle Doctrine, why you gave that as a part of the jury instruction. Okay. Well, I'm going to talk about the Castle Doctrine generally because I can't talk about the case specifically. But the statutory law, as well as the case law, is absolutely crystal clear here in the state of Texas. A defendant is entitled to any legal defense that he can put forth any measure of evidence to support, no matter how good, no matter how bad, no matter whether the judge believes it to be credible or incredible, if there is one scintilla of evidence that this defense could possibly hold true and a jury of your peers could find that it's reasonable, you are entitled to that defense pursuant to the penal code and pursuant to all of the case law. It's not so much that I was concerned about whether or not the case

would be appealed. Almost every trial is. But I was concerned that I had given this defendant every legal justification that they could possibly fathom, as I would with any defendant. And you are absolutely correct. Had a person been denied a justifiable defense, in all probability, that case would be reversed for that reason. And I believe you had a discussion on what the CASEL law entails. And it's a hurdle to get over. But, again, the penal code provides for it. Case law provides for it. And it's been my experience to deny a defendant a defense, no matter what the court's view of that defense would result in a reversal. Avis, question. Sure. Judge, thanks for joining us tonight. You were quoted once as saying,

I wouldn't get criticism if Geiger were a black woman. And I'm wondering if you believe that if the situation were precisely reversed, where Botham Jean went into the wrong apartment and where he murdered Geiger, a white female police officer. Do you believe that he would have received 10 years for that and would have been shown, one would argue, the level of compassion that Geiger apparently received

throughout the course of this case? I have no idea what a jury might have done in punishing that scenario, just as I had no idea what this jury would have done in punishing Ms. Geiger. I can say that if the roles were reversed and the exchange had happened with the black defendant as they happened with miss geiger the request for a would not have been denied uh their discussion about the bible would have been conducted the same way i i would not have done things differently i am not um i have no idea what a jury might have done. I have no idea. Julianne.

Sora, I appreciate you. I realize that you're someplace between a rock and a hard place. At the same time, there are African-American men and women who get more time for less modest crimes. How do you deal with that? Because I just have a problem with it. I've talked to my soror, your friend Cheryl Smith. We've talked about this. How do you deal with the inequality of

this sentence and of your behavior? The inequality of the sentence? Yes, ma'am. I can't say the jury made that decision that was not a decision i will not attack nor quibble with the jury's decision i never have i never will the jury listened to all of the evidence they arrived at their verdict and i accept their verdict But you chose to walk down to hug that woman.

I understand your, I understand your explanation, but for many of us who find her behavior repugnant, it seemed that you co-signed her behavior? To believe that I co-signed her behavior is abominable. We talk a lot about reforming the criminal justice system and to see the person beyond the act. Amber Geiger's acts were horrific. The jury reached their verdicts, both on guilt for murder and assessing the punishment. But Amber Geiger will rejoin our society in 10 years or less. And Amber Geiger, I pray, will come out a different person than what she went in. And the other thing I'd like to say is we talk about a lot about criminal justice reform. And I hope that that reform will require us to look at the person as well as the acts. We

need to punish the acts. And if the person is going to rejoin our society, we want them to be better than when they went in. I hope and pray because we do not want them to continue to prey upon our communities. Julia. And let me say one last thing. I come down off that bench in every murder case and address every victim's family and every defendant. Usually I just simply say to defendants, well, on a number of occasions, family members have forgiven defendants.

And I usually say the same thing. They forgive you, forgive yourself and come out better than you're going in and let this be your last contact with the criminal justice system. Julian? Judge Kemp, thank you for your service. I support you in what you've done.

I will say you can't deny God. I mean, sometimes out of society, we try to remove God from many, many things. And I believe this is an example of God using you when you got up and you gave her a hug and you comfort her. You brought her her Bible. You know, I think we should have compassion as people. We should have compassion for others.

And remember that at the end of the day, God has the last say so in the final judgment. So it's not man or woman that's going to have the last say so. My question to you would be what factors, and if you can't answer the question, I understand, what factors go into a sentencing as far as you have a range of Ms. Geiger's, what she can be sentenced to. You have a minimum, you have a maximum. What factors go into that to determine a fair and reasonable amount of time? Well, here in Texas, the range of punishment for murder is from five years to 99 years or life in prison. And of course, the jury could assess a fine not to exceed $10,000. And this, generally speaking, the state tries to bring all of the bad acts and prior felony and misdemeanor offenses

that they can identify to present to a jury so that they can demonstrate the person's history with the criminal justice system, if there is any. And then the defense has an opportunity to bring in as many people as they can gather to demonstrate that this person has some redeemable value or has done good things and that they're a good person. And not uncommon, we had both of those things done in this case. And I don't know where it is the jury, why they were swayed one way or another. I know the state asked for 24, 28 years. I don't know how the jury arrived at 10. I never questioned them about that, even in my comments in the jury room as I thanked them again for their service. That's why we have a jury of 12 people to come to reason together.

But Judge, I think, here's what I think what people, I think that I think people don't understand. You are a state judge. This was a jury trial. Federal cases are different, correct? Absolutely. So in federal cases, and I've seen it, the jury may render a decision in a federal case and the judge could frankly could throw out that jury's decision and actually provide a different sentence, correct? You are absolutely correct.

And you are correct in saying I am without that power in state court. So in state court, in state court, again, for all these people out here who are commenting, I see all of y'all ridiculous ass comments on YouTube, you don't understand the law. The reality is, in a state court,

when the prosecution puts on a case and the prosecution recommends a certain number of years, when they go into that jury room, the jurors are deciding punishment and sentencing. And so in this case here, she could have been sentenced, I think it was up to 99 years. I think that was the number, up to 99 years. But the jury made the decision, was it five blacks, five Latinos, two whites? You're correct. So that's what I don't think people understand.

This ain't CSI or television. This is a state court. So the jury, so in our system, in state courts, juries are determining those things, not the judge. Absolutely. And Texas is one of the few states left where the juries assess punishment. But again, that decision is made by the defendant as to whom they would like to assess their punishment. So the defense also explained that. So what you're saying is the she could have she and her lawyers could have said, Judge, you assess the penalty or the jury. So that option is given to the defendant. Absolutely. And that exercise is done during pretrial hearings. So before the trial, so just again, and let me say this again for the people out there who are commenting, who are like, okay, why are you asking these questions?

Because you need to understand stuff before you just assume stuff. So before the trial started, she had to make the decision, I want the jury to decide punishment and not the judge. Absolutely. So she could have picked you versus the jury? Yes. For sentencing, could she have picked you to determine innocence or guilt, or was that always the case of a jury? No, she could have picked me to determine guilt as long as the state agreed. Both parties have to give up their right to a jury trial before a judge can make the determination of guilt or innocence. So, for instance, in Baltimore, people again, folks, you're watching in Baltimore, the cops who went on trial for for the death of Freddie Gray.

They chose a bench trial and not a jury trial. And the judge ruled, frankly, fourth. I think it was three of them. They didn't prosecute the fourth one. And so when it comes to innocence or guilt in Texas law, the defense and the prosecution must agree. So if Amber Geiger had said, I want the judge to decide, prosecution said, I want the jury to decide, who then, who wins? If they can't agree, then there will be a jury trial. So the jury is always the default?

Yes. Okay, got it. Yes. And in the case of punishment, if she doesn't specifically say, I want the jury to assess punishment, it's a default to the jury as well. So both have to agree.

Julianne, you got a question? Go ahead. Sister Judge, if you had, do you think the 10-year sentence was sufficient? And if you had to rule, what would you have ruled? I can't answer that. This case very well may return to my court on appeal. But even if it were not, I will not quibble with the jury's verdict.

I will not. Last question for you, Judge. When we look at these cases, do you believe that people are actually learning more about the nuances here? So, for instance, in other cases, I think back to other cases that have taken place where, especially when a police officer is on trial, there were a lot of people who were thinking that the prosecution overcharged by going for murder. You have cases where it's negligence, where you have hummus, where you have manslaughter, all kinds of different charges. We're dealing with a case in Tarrant County right now as well with a sister who was shot and killed by a police officer over the weekend.

We're going to talk about another story coming up out of Atlanta where the officer was found not guilty of murder, but he was found guilty on some other charges as well. I remember being at the church rally there in Fort Worth after both of them, John, was killed, and folks were just pressing the then, Faith Johnson, who was then the DA, to try for murder. But again, what you often hear from these prosecutors is that,

look, when you go for something along those lines, once it goes into the jury's hands, you don't know how they're going to respond, whether or not you frankly overcharge or not. But do you believe that people are getting a better understanding of the nuance of this legal system and it's not as cut and dry as person gets shot, kill, murder, done, that's it, you're going to go away from life?

Do you think that they're actually learning and understanding the nuances of this legal criminal justice system? You know, I think they only understand the nuances if, such as your show, you take the time to explain the nuances. Because so many people think it will unfold like it unfolds on television. And we have 50 different states with 50 different jurisdictions. Because frankly, one of the other issues we had in this trial was no one paid attention. But during the punishment phase, there was an instruction about sudden passion. Now, I want to talk about that, not specific to Amber Geiger, but sudden passion was a move where if you believe that the accused acted on the provocation of someone else and that there was a sudden passion that provoked them to commit the act, then the punishment range could be reduced. Now, the state and the defense agreed to put that in the charge. I don't know that it belonged, but that was an agreement. But there are so many different nuances. Hold on, hold on right there.

So if the prosecution and the defense agree, you can't overrule them. You have to go along with that agreement? For some issues in the charge, I do. Got it. Got it. Got it. For example, somebody might be charged with murder and somebody might absolutely testify I intentionally and knowingly shot them and intended to kill them. And but both sides go, OK, well, let's also include a lesser included of manslaughter. There hadn't been any testimony about something being reckless, haphazard, but they can agree that they want to put a lesser included in the charge.

Judge Tammy Kemp, we appreciate you joining us and spending this moment of time sharing your thoughts in this particular case. Frankly, folks may not be satisfied with what you had to say, but the reality is you're the judge. This case moves forward. And as you said, depending upon what happens, depending upon appeals, it may very well come back to your courtroom. We certainly thank you for joining us on Roll About Unfiltered. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Mr. Martin, I just really appreciate you at least educating the public. And if nothing else, please implore your audience to participate on the jury panel. And for God's sake, don't get there and say, I can't judge people. We're not asking you to judge. I'm asking you to judge a single moment in time. Only God is going to judge the person. But if you can, implore your

audience to participate as jurors, because that is one of my pet peeves. So many times we want to complain about the system, but we don't want to participate in the system. And participation requires you listening to the hard cases. I'm so very grateful that we had a diverse jury. But it was only because they said yes to their summons. So if you could, just encourage your audience to participate in the criminal justice system. It can't get any better if we don't all work at it. All right, Judge Tammy Kemp, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Good panel here. See, that's what I like. Literally,

I'm sitting here reading all these all these people and they're making these silly ass comments like, oh, my God, you're throwing softball questions. Here's the deal. If you don't know why somebody did something, you have to ask the question, why did you do this? What were you thinking? What were the motives behind it? See, unlike some simple Simons, OK, I want to get the answer first so you can understand what took place. Otherwise, you don't know what the hell happened. There were people who went off on the Castle Doctrine. All these non-lawyers, folks who ain't never been in the courtroom, going off, not understanding

why, not understanding background. And again, that's what happens when you're ill-informed and you're just sitting at home just commenting on stuff and not really understanding what actually happens in these cases. I go back to the Rekia Boyd when she was shot and killed. When Dante Servin went to court, the judge said the prosecutors charged him with the wrong crime. And Dante Servin walked out of that jail, walked out of that courtroom free, could not be charged again. He has never been held accountable for the death of Rekia Boyd. And so when folks demand certain indictments, they're not understanding the nuances of the law

because if you're a prosecutor, your job is to get a win. Right. What you don't want to do is, as some say, overcharge. Many believe, Avis, that Angela Corey overcharged George Zimmerman, that she purposely positioned that as opposed to saying, let me charge to ensure he go to jail and he walked. Yeah. I mean, honestly, she threw the case. I mean, that's so honest. That's so easy to see that she threw that case. But I believe with this one, the reason why this has people so deeply touched and moved and angry, and I would argue rightfully angry, is because people are examining this issue in the broader context of what we know is real

as it relates to this criminal justice system. And the fact that this gentleman was completely innocent, the fact that you had a neighbor who videotaped her immediate reaction, in which her compatriots in the police force took her video, squashed it, and that woman has now been fired from her job. And the fact that two days after she was sentenced to just 10 years, the main person who testified

against her in court ends up executed, which if you believe somebody drove all the way from Louisiana to Texas to buy some weed, I have some swamp land I need to sell you. I mean, just because I'm paranoid does not mean there aren't people who are out to get me. And so although people may have been jumping to some conclusions with this, the reasons why they did that are based in fact, historic fact and contemporary fact, as it relates to how the black community is consistently faced with injustice in the criminal justice system. And so there is zero to none trust when we talk about the system. The point that she made about juries was absolutely correct, Julianne, because I get

sick of all these people out here bitching and moaning about unjust jury decisions. And we had Ben Crump on here. We've had numerous lawyers on here who said, y'all don't know what it feels like to walk into that courtroom and all I see are white folks serving on juries. And all I see are black folks trying to kill themselves to get out now totally understand uh the the sacrifice when it comes to serving on juries when it comes to uh making money and income but here's a reality first and foremost i think back to reverend jackson when he was in ferguson all these young brothers were on the corners talking about when one

day was saying all these civil rights leaders need to go to hell, River Jackson said, he said, let me ask you a question. How many of y'all want to see the cop get indicted for killing Michael Brown? They're like, oh yeah, how many of y'all want to see the cop get convicted? He said, how many of y'all are registered to vote? None of their hands went up.

He said, you know, you got no shot at being on the jury if you ain't registered to vote. None of their hands went up. He said, you know, you got no shot at being on the jury if you ain't registered to vote. They had no idea. That's how you affect change. They had no idea. And you know that, I think that the sister judge,

my sorrow, mixed feelings, but the whole issue of us serving on juries is extraordinarily important. Absolutely. And so often we just deflect that thing. So we could make a difference. Folks mad she got 10 years, five blacks, five Latinos, two whites.

If you didn't have five blacks and five Latinos, it could have been worse. She might have gotten off completely. See, again, though. But the issue. You don't know what happens in a jury room. No, you never do. But the issue really... There are a couple of takeaways from this case.

And one of the takeaways is where we are in registering, voting, and jury selection. And so you have... Anybody who's hollering about, I don't like you... Oh, no, no, no. Registering, voting, jury selection. And so you have anybody who's hollering about I don't like you. Oh, no, no, no. Registering, voting, jury selection, and for the people

who don't want to see black prosecutors, you need to see. Yeah. Thank you. See, all of the Kamala haters, all of the Marilyn Mosby haters, all of the people who act like,

don't want to ever be a DA. No, you can't be out here yelling and screaming for there to be justice. And then if you don't have prosecutors who are not owned and operated by the police union. So you know what? Part of the issue, of course, prosecutor's job is to prosecute. So all these people who are mad at Kamala, get over yourselves.

But prosecutor's job is to prosecute, and they have discretion. What happened to Air Miss Ayala in Florida? She says, I am not going to prosecute any death penalty cases. Governor Rick Scott got mad as hell, pulled out of her different cases. You see what happened with the marijuana convictions. Cook County jails are down 19% in terms of incarceration because of Kim Fox being the district attorney.

And so, again, I'm saying all of this because it is frustrating, again, for the people who are sitting here, oh, my goodness, that was too much nuance. Why were you walking through that sort of stuff? Because the criminal justice system is not cut and dry. It's not simple. The criminal justice system is not about justice. And the other thing is that we make these comparisons between jurisdiction and jurisdiction as if they're the same.

They're not. So we get these, well, this one got 10 years and this got 10 years. Well, if that was California, that was Florida. So that's something we have to pay attention to too. But the bottom line is there's insufficient participation of black people in the political process. And that insufficient participation leads us to insufficient outcomes. Folks, a former police officer in Georgia, I want to go to this story real quick. A former Georgia police officer found not guilty of murder on Monday,

more than four years after he killed a naked, unarmed black man who served in the military who was mentally ill. A jury in DeKalb County found Robert Chip Olson guilty of aggravated assault, making a false statement and two counts of violation of oath, but acquitted him on two felony murder charges. He faces up to 35 years in prison and is due to be sentenced on November 1st. Judge Letitia Deer Jackson said he can remain out on an $80,000 bond until then, though he will have an ankle monitor and be subject to a curfew. Olson was charged with killing Anthony Hill, a 26-year-old Afghanistan war veteran, in March of 2015. Julian, real quick, that's the

point there. Again, police officer kills a man in this case. It's a... Juries make different decisions. They do. I mean, I think more African Americans, this should be a wake-up call for a lot of us.

You need to be registered voters because it's not just about voting. It's also about, hey, you can go and be a juror and see that justice is served. As we see right here with this case, we had five blacks. You had five Hispanics. Can you imagine if it was an all-white jury and what the outcome would have been? Yeah, we can. How about the case in Connecticut with the court? The police officer, a brother was kneeling down, hands up,

and he was kneeling down, and he got to his knees, and the cop kicked him in the head, knocked him unconscious. Clear on the video. Brother made no move towards the cop. He was just going down. Jury found that cop not guilty.

That's what happens. And so that's the case. Our folks got to go to a break. When we come back, a group of black pastors say it's time to boycott the word network. We'll find out why next Roller Martin Unfiltered. You want to support Roller Martin Unfiltered?

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including Gerald Albright. Of course, over three days. If you want to attend, of course, go to lifeluxjazz.com. L-I-F-E-L-U-X-E-J-A-Z-Z.com. But if you cannot make it, you can get your live streaming pass for $10.99 by going to gfntv.com. That's gfntv.com. Folks like Mark Curry, again, Gerald Albright, Alex Bunyan, Raul Madon, Incognito,

Pieces of a Dream, Kirk Whalum, Average White Band, Donnie McClurkin, Shalaya, Roy Ayers, Tom Brown, Ronnie Laws, Ernest Quarles will be all performing. It's going to be an amazing time, and trust me, you want to check it out. And so, again, if you want to get the live stream, simply go to GFNTV.com. That's GFNTV.com to get the live stream pass for those three days. All right, folks. More than 100 prominent black clergy have signed a petition calling for a boycott of the Word Network after Kevin Adele, the network's white owner and CEO, was accused of racial insensitivity. Here's a photo that's in question.

The Word Network, of course, is billed as the largest African-American religious network in the world. And this photo was a photo that was sent to Bishop George Bloomer, founder of the Bethel Family Worship Center, by Kevin Adele. Bishop Bloomer joins us right now. And so, Bishop, I read a story when the story was done on this where Kevin Adele said he sent this to you to apprise you of what was out there. But you say that's not what happened. Not what happened. First, good to see you. Thanks for having me tonight. Texas is something else.

And everything that transpired is all in Texas. Okay? I came to the network, and he showed me it on his phone, and I immediately said to him, get rid of that. Don't play with it. It is bad. It has racist connotations to it. When I left the studio, I was going to my car.

He then texted to me. I then text him again. And I said, I told you that this is not good. He then called me from his office with employees from the network in his office and the bishop, George Blumer. I was so upset. I cussed at him and I said to him, I told you that blank ain't funny. And he hung up. One of the employees there then called me and says yo ma'am uh people were inside the office when kevin called you and and you told him that wasn't funny every rolling every bit of this four or five day back and forth is on text kevin adele is disingenuous he's not telling the truth and he's also lying okay he told the detroit news that he sent it to me so that i could be aware of it

okay but he also sent this to me so that i could be uh aware of Let me, let me find it. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna send these things to you, Roland. Um, let me see. I can set it up first. This is what he sent to me. You look like a midget. Your tattoo from the Fantasy Island. Let's see if I can... You...

I didn't know they made tuxedos that small. This is not funny. He texts me back, LOL. LOL. I said, this has racist connotations. It's equivalent to blackface. He then sends me a picture of him in a tuxedo, and he doodles blackface on the person.

They can say whatever they want to say. I'm not talking. He is. Every text I have here. Every text. And of course, if you want to ask me, I'm ready to answer. Word Network obviously targets African Americans, a significant number of black preachers who are on the Word Network.

I was the face of the Word Network for eight years. I was rejoicing the word on the word network. The next program I did was called the first word, which was a program where you brought other preachers on and they could minister and move products. And then my national television program also is on the network. I don't know what got into him that day. This didn't happen in the studio. This happened over texting back and forth over a period of a few days. When we had our last conversation, I decided to quit. And I was silent about quitting. I left. I was silent. And then bloggers started picking it up that I was fired over the Benny Hinn statement or fired before the misappropriation of

funds. I then went on the Larry Reed show in order to get the word out that I was never fired. Bishop Neil Ellis from Global International Ministries called me and said, I've been hearing some things and I read some things online. And I called Kevin Liddell to speak to him. And I'm asking you, Bishop Blumer, would you go and speak to Kevin Liddell? And I said, no. The only way I'll talk to him is if he puts out a press release stating that he never fired me and there's no misappropriation of funds he told bishop ellis no he will not do that it is not the policy of the word network to uh send out uh any press release so i went online and got all the press releases that he had sent out when other people had quit or got fired. He wanted that negative connotation to stay out there with regarding and about me.

He then told the newspaper that he wanted to change the programming on the network, and I was in agreement with that. But he forgot the text that I sent him about all of the interviews that I had done with celebrities and movie stars. He forgot the text that I have where I built the studio at our church so we can do two shows in North Carolina and two shows in Detroit.

He forgot all those things, and I have all those Texas. So I have Texas going as far back as the beginning of the year. My show only aired three times this year, January, May, and September. This guy is a liar and I want to talk about it. What do you want to happen next? A letter was put out as well. Are you calling on some of the bigger names

who have their programming on the Word Network to pull their programming? And again, for the folks who don't know, these pastors are paying the Word Network to air their services, correct? That's correct, yeah correct that's correct yeah and you you and you were you were you were you paid by the word network were you or did you were you an employee of them what was your financial I wasn't an employee I wasn't an employee of the word network but um I would I got

free programming for my television programs and then my books and tapes and so on and so forth like that, I would receive residuals that goes back to my ministry from that. But I wasn't on the payroll. I didn't get a check or anything like that. What has been the response from other preachers? Have they responded to what you... Oh, my God. I didn't start the boycott. I didn't... I'm glad they started one, but I didn't start the the boycott I've worked very very very very very hard to be an honest guy and that's the truth and I just can't let him you know saw me and indulge me like that and that that that was it um at a later date um roland i'll i'll i'll

share some other things but i just wanted to uh clear that um jamal bryant was quite silent on this matter and um i called him and i said your your silence is questioning me, would make me question your activism. And he said, well, he was just hearing some things. He's taking things into consideration and what have you. And he did a show. And it's online. And he got up there and he began to talk. And he shared how that I had quit and I left the

word network. But at the end of the statement, he said something that wasn't correct. He said, and after I quit, I went back and I did my final show, which was a lie that never, ever happened. I called Jamal and I said, Jamal, this is not correct. This is not right. Jamal then did a retraction to what had happened. And I said this to Jamal.

I said, you didn't make that up. Someone said that to you. So I know that there's a campaign to make things look like it is something that it isn't. And you asked me what I want out of this. I want the money that is owed to me, and it's a lot. How much? How much? I would say, I don't want to say, but it's a lot.

Five figures? Five figures? six figures? Six figures plus, yeah. Low to mid six figures, high six figures? I would say somewhere in the 150s. And so that's what Kevin Adele for the Word Network owes you? Yes. For what? When we had a Bible program, and we would—I wrote 60 some art books.

So I would do a show, and then for the show, there would be a book offer. And so we sell the book to the ministry at a premium. People sow a seed. We send them the book, and that at a premium. People sow a seed. We send them the book, and that's how we generate funds. Got it. We also had Bible programs that was going on where he promised me a fee off of each of the Bibles, and he has yet to pay that. That's where those numbers come from. Then we had a CD that was used in order to promote, to sell the Bible.

And the reason why I was like, because I don't know the exact amount of Bibles, but I know up until a certain point. So it may be much more than that. Okay. Well, Bishop Bloomer, we will reach out to Kevin Adele tomorrow to see if he wants to come on to explain himself. Certainly, I would love to see a transcript of those text messages to ask him. Can I say one other thing? Yes, go ahead. Just one other thing.

I just saw before I came on your program something from Detroit that he's on and he's saying that I quit and I made this whole thing up because no other studios would take me. Hear me now. I've been in television for 20 some odd years. Total Christian Television, TCT, signed me to a contract three days after the thing transpired and happened. And many of the other networks have already offered me free air on their stations, white and black, because they don't want my voice to be silenced. This is what I'm talking about, and I wanted to say that too.

All right. Thank you so much. Bishop Blum, I truly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. Real quick, going on a panel here. He got receipts. Oh my God. I had no idea Christian networks were so juicy. I'm missing out, apparently. Yeah, we got to go to Oh, my God. I had no idea Christian networks were so juicy. I'm missing out, apparently. Yeah, we got to go to divinity school.

My goodness, he got serious receipts. Roland, I have a problem with all of this. With what? Not with whatever the Word Network did to him. You know, Reverend Jackson had a problem with the Word Network. They squeezy. But I also have an issue with, we sell them the Bibles you do. You know, it's like Father Divine

or some mess like that. It really makes me uncomfortable. Hold on, what? Selling Bibles? Like that. Like what? It seems to be there is an element of exploitation in here, from my perspective as an economist. Okay, hold on.

But you said selling Bibles. First of all, Bibles are always sold. Yes. So what the arrangement here was that if you are selling the Bible and then – here's what we don't know. We don't know what the back end is. We don't know if there was a backroom operation. We don't know if there was a fulfillment center.

I'm not saying we don't know that. I bought Bibles, which meant somebody had to sell it. It means somebody getting paid. So, Roland, here's what I know. As the brother talked, all of my antenna went up. That's all I know. I don't know what the deal

is, but my antenna went up. But the Bibles and the money are separate from sending a meme of a white guy as the pimp and then the preachers as his hoes. That's what the meme was. And again, according to this story, Kevin Adele's telling the Detroit newspaper, I was making him aware. He said, no, you were sitting here laughing and acting as if that was no big deal. The Word Network has issues, but there are also a set of issues

around how we use religion in the context of capitalism. No, no, no, hold on. That ain't the issue. That ain't the issue, okay? For me, it is. Yeah, but that ain't got nothing to do with this. What this is about is the issue here, and that is Kevin O'Dell, white owner of the Word Network,

did he or did he not sit here and think it was funny to send a meme to this black preacher and then joke with him saying you look like tattooed. No, no, no, that's the issue. That's wrong. But I'm not going to do it. I ain't going to muddy the issue, okay? I'm going to stay focused on what it is.

Kevin Adele has to answer this. Bloomer sends me those text messages. My deal is going to be Adele. These text messages. So you joking and you acting as if this was no big deal. They ain't the same as you away. I think it also shows a huge intersection here between Christianity and racism, particularly as it's implemented through this particular network and are broadly speaking in terms of how oftentimes it's practiced in a very exploitative way. If you look at what that meme is saying, if you look at what that meme is saying and the reason why he kept... I'm thinking if someone told you once that they're offended, why would you

keep going back day after day after day after day? What he is essentially saying in this depiction of him being a pimp and they being the hoes is that here I am, the owner of this network. Go ahead out there. Make that money. Make my money. You better have my money. In a very literal way. And that's

what Bloomer said I'm objecting to. He's saying that means something in the black community when you're the pimp and we hoes, to your point we go out and make the money. Your thoughts on this? White supremacy fears two things. Loss of life, loss of funds. So

at some point we as black people, we have to realize, okay, if we go into this person to be on TV, what's stopping us from starting our own? If we make all this money, why not start our own? So if we start our own, there's no need for a boycott. And in fact, hold on,

in the Periscope video Jamal Bryant did, that's actually what he talked about. He said if we're going to boycott, fine. He said, but if we're going to expand that level of energy to boycott, why don't we say, you know what, fine, we're going to pull all our programming off of the word network and then put it on a black owned network. What does it mean actually starting one? But Kevin and Dale has to address this issue.

And so I got Kevin and Dale's number. He's going to get a text message as soon as this show is over to answer this issue because, again, I'm reading one story. And see, for all y'all out there who are saying, why am I asking the judge those questions? See, this is why you ask people questions to get their response on record. Then you follow up with the next set of questions. I want Kevin Liddell to explain to me if he was making him aware, because if the text message is so, you thought it was funny and you kept making jokes to Bishop George Bloomer, that story ain't going to hold water.

Final comment. Bishop George Bloomer, Jamal Bryant, my friends, decided to sleep with the devil. That's what I have to say. They sleeping with the devil. They knew this man was not whatever. Okay, hold on, hold on.

You're basing it on what? Basing it on the text, all of that. You know, and like Jamal said, why can't we start our own stuff? Hold on, you can't say somebody knew they was sleeping with the devil based upon the text, all of that. You know, and like Jamal said, why can't we start our own stuff? You can't say somebody knew they were sleeping with the devil based upon the text. If I know the text even existed, how do I know he's a devil? You know,

the Word Network fell out with Reverend Jackson behind some BS. They followed now with other black people. How many people actually know that? Well, I do. Right, you do. But everybody else don't know that. It's a document. So what I'm saying is, if I do. Right, you do. But everybody else don't know that. It's a document. So what I'm saying is, if I don't know, if I've never had that kind of

relationship or issue with somebody, well then I don't even know that. What this does is, is exposing this, and Adele's going to have to actually address the issue. But these black preachers are also going to have to take, they're going to have to grow some. And they're going to have to say that they are prepared to leave this plantation and move on.

They've issued a letter calling for that. The question now is, yes, will that happen? And again, and to those of you who are sitting here posting like, Roland, why are you discussing this? Because that's the point. Because if I ignored the issue, then it gets no oxygen. Then folks don't know. That's why we do this. And it's also money, Roland. We do this to talk about black stuff. And yes,

black people and black churches are supporting networks. And if this is the owner of the network and how he feels about black preachers, you should know. Folks, this is why we do Roller Mark Unfiltered. Discuss the very things that other networks will not talk about,

will not cover, and from our perspective, and that's why we want you to support us, please go to RollerMarkUnfiltered.com Join our Bring the Funk fan club. Go to of course, you can give via Cash App, PayPal or Square. Everything that we do goes to support, again, goes to support our coverage of various issues. This week we'll be broadcasting from Melanie Campbell's awards gala that's taking place on Wednesday night.

We're an American Heart Association event broadcasting from that Thursday. Friday, we're going to be in Chicago for Lewis Carr's men's conference. So it's a crazy busy week. And, in fact, I'll be broadcasting Wednesday morning from National Minority Supply Development Council in Atlanta. So it's a crazy busy week. That's why we do what we do to bring you black news, black issues from a black perspective. All right, folks, I got to go. I know normally we go an hour.

We chose to go longer this time, about an hour and 45 minutes. But we had some great stuff. It was important for us to cover those issues. So we certainly thanks a bunch. I'll see you guys tomorrow. Holla! Holla! Holla! Holla!

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