#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 11.29.19 #RMU: Roland goes one-on-one with Nikki Giovanniii

Episode Date: December 5, 2019

11.29.19 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Roland goes one-on-one with Nikki Giovanniii Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling With some Go-Go-Royale It's Rolling Martin Rolling with Rolling now He's funky, he's fresh

He's real the best you know He's funky, he's fresh, he's real, the best you know, he's Roland Martin now Martin Hey folks, welcome to this special edition of Roland Martin Unfiltered. She is somebody who has always been unfiltered her entire life. I'm talking about poet Nikki Giovanni. She recently stopped by the studios of Roland Martin Unfiltered to discuss her new book on poetry. But we managed to talk about everything else but her book.

Hope you all enjoy this conversation. Hey, folks, glad to have Nikki Giovanni here, the great poet, activist, author, college professor, rabble rouser, all that sort of stuff. But here's why I'm happy to have her here. OK, so I had my show Washington Watch for four years on TV. One, I had news one now for four years on TV. One. And the problem is I couldn't cuss. So I could say I could say, damn, hell, ass. I couldn't say that. OK, so I need to understand, I have been wanting to tell this story.

This is flat out one of my favorite quotes of all time. This quote is up there with Malcolm X, with Martin Luther King Jr., with Frederick Douglass. I mean, some of the greats. I'm telling y'all. Okay, so in 2000, we're at Tavis Miley, State of Black America at USC, on USC's campus. And I think Charles Ogletree was the one who was interviewing Nikki Giovanni on stage. And I think the brother with the New York Daily News, Stanley Crouch, I think he was on the panel. So the question was asked to Nikki. Why?

Do you love hip-hop and why do you love Tupac and this is what she said? She said somebody got to call a motherfucker a motherfucker Right there the whole audience lost it and every time I had on the show I couldn't say it I had to dance around it, but that was all it. But that is a top five all-time quote. I'm embarrassed. I'm an old lady. I'm sorry. But that was hilarious and truthful. Well, it was truthful.

It was truthful. And there's no question about that, really. Well, you have to sometimes. We've been talking football, you know. And I teach at Virginia Tech. And let me, can I read a poem? Yeah. Because I have a wonderful.

Shocking. Shocking. She's going to refer to a poem. This is a nice poem. I have a kid that I taught, Kevin Jones, who is in our Hall of Fame. Running back. Yeah. Yep. And Kevin came to me and he said, Nick Jones, who is in our Hall of Fame. Running back. Yep. And Kevin came to me and he said, Nick, I need some help in writing a poem.

And we talked back and forth, and I came up with this. So the I is Kevin. Some people plant seeds for corn and tomatoes and okra, which grow. Some people clean land, and at evening you can see deer eating flowers or just standing. Mother deer watching her babies. Some people live in crowded cities and they put out window boxes with herbs, enchanting folk to wipe by. I play football. I have watched men grow too long for too much for too little, then come home to smile at their wives and children.

I have watched every Sunday, Sunday school children offer a psalm, preachers offer hope, a choir offers a voice and join the community in prayer to a merciful God. That life will be better. I play football. I listen to my parents tell me to go forward. I listen to my teachers tell me I can. I listen to the wind whistling in my ear and sometimes the rain falling on my back. And I understood that the true heroes of our nation, I am doing my part to be a part of this community, this school, this team. I am humbled to be considered for this hall of fame

when I know the true heroes are the men and women who go forth every day. I play football. I hope I have done my part. And I think we forget that everybody does what they do. And aside from the fact that I love Kevin, I love the fact that those young men on that football team, they hurt. They don't get any money.

They're not making $300,000. They're not making commercials. And I know people say they're getting an education but sometimes. So we could do better. Well, the thing that's interesting to me even as you were reading that

because the thing about poetry, first of all poetry is personal. It's deeply personal. I was at Black Book Images in Dallas when they were still open. And I asked somebody who came in and they said, they said, I got a book of poetry that I want to sell it. And I said, well, the question is, are people going to buy it? And so Emma Rogers, who owned it, I said, Emma, I said, how much poetry do you sell? She went, you see the top of that bookshelf? She went, start right there and go all the way over there. She says, those are all poetry books that haven't been sold. And I said, so I always want to ask you this. When you hear that,

why do you think people don't gravitate to poetry to purchase? I think people, first and foremost, that's not true. I've had three bestsellers for whatever things like that mean. But I think that we, the poets, have to come out and tell the truth, which means you're going to be offending people. I've been watching my mailbox lately because I'm not fond of the president. I think he's crazy and I think he should be impeached if not arrested. And so, you know, now I look at my mailbox, I have to make sure that nothing's in there because, you know, and this disturbed me. Just let me say this one thing. These are the same people who put a bomb in a church and murdered four little girls.

And they want to tell me they're Christians. And the book that they say that they believe in is a poetry book, especially New Testament. And I'm in love with John, the beloved disciple. I know that John was smoking weed. If you read Revolutions, you know he was smoking weed. Me, myself, I like Song of Solomons. Well, that's beautiful. Let me tell you something.

If y'all, look, if y'all want to read some sexual stuff, read one of them Songs of Solomons. I was like, dang, Solomon, you were laying it down. But look what Toni Morrison did with it. So you're going to take these wonderful lines, words, images, metaphors, and you're going to find a way to use them. So I don't think you write a book because you want it to be a bestseller. I think you write a book because you want to tell the truth.

Right. Now, here's what's interesting, though. So while you were reading that, ask somebody who speaks all across the country and ask somebody who tells stories when speaking. Actually, as I heard that, and then when I went to page 106 and read it, I said, it's not a poem. This is a little speech. I mean, literally, if you, I mean, that's, I mean, literally what he,

as I read it, I'm going wait a minute He could walk to the to the podium and to accept an honor. That was a speech So you just so it so it caused you to look at it differently as opposed to oh my god. That's a poem No, no, no, that was basically a speech. It's a fun He's married to a wonderful young lady Robin and they have a couple of really wonderful kids but I wanted to say something not only to Kevin, but to all of those young men and women. And women's basketball is just incredible. You know, that's a whole nother. If I were president, which I'm thinking of running, if I were president, if I were president, I would have a secretary of sport because we know that for the men

and all fairness well for the men we need to one extend the the court because they're too tall and we need to raise the basket the only thing that's working right now the women because they're they're the ones who have to think the guys just have to throw it down and drop it in yeah and so I think that we need to think about it is brilliant watching when some of the bit one of the best games ever was when Connecticut played Tennessee. They were balling. And then I went to, with Texas A&M, my alma mater, beat Notre Dame in the national championship. I went to Indianapolis for the game.

And it went down. And that was one of the most exciting games, period. Because they have to think. I mean, I'm teaching Taylor Emory. And of course, she's like the number one, number two women's basketball player in America. And I'm so proud of her. She's a good writer, too.

Just a great kid. I'm not against the men. I don't want somebody to write me. But the men are tall and big. So we're going to have to extend that court to make them have to think. I grew up watching and celebrating Moses Malone and Hakeem Olajuwon. Yeah.

I mean, the footwork of Olajuwon is just unbelievable. And I hate now seeing a dude seven feet tall taking a three-pointer. I'm like, get your big ass down on the block and put your back to the basket. But the game now is just about everybody jacking up three-pointers. As opposed to really, I mean, you think back to Magic Johnson and James Worthy and Byron Scott and Norm Nixon and Adu Jabal with Showtime. I mean, that was poetry in motion. It was. In terms of just how they would just flow.

And it is different now watching it where even my Rockets, I can't stand watching James Harden hold the ball for 20 seconds. And I'm like, dude, can you pass the ball around, please? I appreciate that. It's boring. Well, we need to make that. Don't you think we need to make that change? It's like men's tennis, and I'm a big tennis fan. Oh, now with the speeds?

Well, we need to make them have to play five. It's a wonder they don't all drop dead, a heart attack or something. And I think two out of three is going to be fine. I think that's going to work. I think we need to do that. But I also think that we need to put a roof so that they're not playing in 102 degrees. Yeah, yeah. Even though I don't, me from Houston, I don't mind if I got to play golf for money. I want to play at one o'clock in August. I want you to wilt. Shame on you. I want you to wilt in that sun. See, I live down the mountain from Greenbrier, so you to wilt. Shame on you. I want you to wilt in that sun. I live down

the mountain from Greenbrier. So you can come. I played there. Great course. You want to support Roller Marker Unfiltered? Be sure to join our Bring the Funk fan club. Every dollar that you give to us supports our daily

digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. By going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com, you can make this possible. You call this a good cry. I do. What we learn from tears and laughter. Where did the title come from?

Probably, I had a seizure. That's a long story. But I had a seizure. And my doctor a long story, but I had a seizure. And my doctor, who I always love because Gregory is cute, so I listen to him. Not that if he was ugly I wouldn't, but he's cute, so I do. And Gregory's position was I eat too much salt, I don't get enough rest. You know how they go through it because I'm a woman and I'm black. So the first thing is always you eat too much salt. And I was saying to Gregory, I don't get enough rest. You know how they go through it, because I'm a woman, and I'm black. So the first thing is always, you eat too much salt. And I was saying to Greg, I don't think

that's the problem. I think the problem is I never learned to cry. And I think that I kept so much in. And now, in my 70s, it's coming out. And if I would learn to cry, I would have avoided this seizure. Now, when you say cry, like, about what? I have a dear friend who's in prison. He'll die there. He's got cancer. I have the things that make you sad. My mother died in June.

My sister died in July. And my aunt died in October. I didn't have time to cry. I had to take care of them. I'm the oldest person in my family. And you hold things in. You know, my mother and father had arguments every Saturday. You hold things in.

And when you keep holding it in, eventually it's got to come out someplace. So it comes out of your eyes or, I didn't start to drink until, actually I went to Virginia Tech. I learned to drink. My father was alcoholic. And so it looked like alcohol was a bad idea. And then I went to Virginia Tech and I have a dear friend. She'll be mad at me for saying this, but she reminded me, you know, wine was, Jesus had wine. The last wine. And so she didn't make me start drinking,

but she let me see how wonderful it is to drink with your friends. So I've learned to drink, but you have to let things out. And I said to Gregory, to my doctor's beyond, I said to Gregory, I think if I had learned to cry, I wouldn't have this, this seizure. And he said, I think you're wrong. And I said, Gregory, I have given you a gift, because it's true, I have. I said, you need to create something, the Nikki, and when people come in and they're having, you know, problems, you need to say, oh, you have the Nikki. And you need to show them a good glass of champagne will do this every night, and you need to laugh about this, but you need to learn to cry when something's sad. You don't need to learn to be strong. Because we live in a nation that tells you, oh, you know, you'll

get over it. My mother died. People said, people actually had the audacity, the stupidity to say, oh, you'll get over it. How are you going to get over your mother being dead? Right. I didn't get over my dog dying. Wendy, well, my dog is Wendy. Wendy died and I've got, she is buried in front of the house with a with a plate how do you get over what you miss right or what hurts you don't you have to let it out and that's why you have friends and your friends shouldn't tell you be strong be brave you can do it your friend should say oh girl go on a cry

about I'm right here that's what a friend is for. So we were at Aretha's Franklin's funeral it was interesting because so Gladys Knight, so she was to my right. So we're in the front row. She's to my right. And she was really broken about Aretha dying. And so she was crying. And so then Jennifer Lewis, who was sitting in her seat row behind her, she comes over. And so she's, you know, she's just standing right next to her, and so she's hugging her.

Then she's just rubbing her back, rubbing her back, rubbing her back. And so then I walked over, and I was to hand Jennifer something, a fan or something. She says, no, no, no. She said, Roland, you got to do the old way. You got to go ahead and fan them yourself. But it was just one of those things where, again, versus just letting her sit there alone, she didn't say anything. It was just there just to rub her back, just to rub her back. Well, you know, Aretha is my sore. She's a Delta.

And the Omega Omega's ceremony was just beautiful. My wife was there. She's a Delta. She was there. She flew in for it. Crazy as you are, I know you had to marry a Delta. Now, hold up. She wasn't a Delta when we got married. She married an Alpha. But she got rid of him, didn't she? No, no. I'm the Alpha.

And then she got a Delta later. So she married an Alpha. See, I always mess with the deltas on that one. I was going to say, you know, I had the pleasure of knowing Rosa Parks. And I would talk to Ms. Parks. Ms. Parks was a tea drinker. I would talk to Ms. Parks. We just, you know, like we're doing.

And I said to her one day, yeah, I said, you know, Ms. Parks, when I think about your life, it's amazing to me that you only made one mistake. And you know Rosa. You know how her face kind of fell. She said, well, what was that, baby? I said, you went AK. See, that's why I tell Reverend Jackson every time because he's an Omega. He always throws little hooks up. I was like, don't start that.

Don't start that. I said, you knew Dr. King was an Alpha. Don't start that. I was going to say. We should be ashamed of ourselves no no no we shouldn't that's the truth that's a good one that's a good one but the whole thing though is since each day as you were talking I thought about I thought about when so my grandfather died in 85. And then my maternal grandfather. And my maternal grandmother died about six years ago. And I thought about it.

I'm trying to see. It was interesting because I was doing Reverend Sharpton's measuring the movement. And I got the word that she'd pass. And I went back to the makeup chair. And I'm trying to think between that and even the funeral, I didn't cry. Maybe because, first of all, my grandmother died at 91. She had been sick for some time in a hospice. And I think for me, I spent so much time around them growing up.

So for me, it was frankly a celebration of a life. And so it wasn't. Now, what is interesting, because as you're talking about crying, it's the weirdest thing like i can be watching a movie or i can be watching a sports moment and it's this huge moment and all of a sudden i realize tears are coming down because it's it's it's a moment of joy like i ain't even involved in it and so it's interesting so i i think about that in terms of just uh another way of tears versus just one that's a sadness and it's weird let me ask myself like why was i crying on it and it's just you know what seeing somebody being happy or being happy for them i don't i for me uh

i've learned because it's been a while for year I couldn't drive because my doctors were afraid that I'd have another seizure or something. But for me I learned that, and for me it has been sadness because now when I'm happy, as you can see, I'm sitting here, I laugh. But things that make me sad, I don't try to make it all right. Right, it is what it is. It's sad, dammit, and I'm gonna sit there and cry

and any fool that'll tell me don't cry, it'll be all right, I'm going to get rid of them. Yeah, my wife, of course, a day minister, but also a certified grief counselor, and walks folks through that. And look, both my parents are 71, still living, active, and all this little stuff along those lines. But, yeah, when I've had fraternity brothers who've lost their dads recently, you know, and I've reached out to them and I'm like, yo, I mean, I understand that relationship, especially black men who've had fathers who were still in their lives who passed away. I mean, it's a whole different sort of connection.

Yeah, and men, of course, are worse than anybody because men are like I've got to be and and men need to learn to cry because what you end up doing is you don't cry but you kick your dog right see for me I don't have a dog so I'm glad you don't no I mean but you know you're upset they kick their dog beat they take it out on something else as opposed to no, no, let that thing out. That's all I'm saying. But you know, Steve Perry and I had this conversation. And remember, we had him on the show. And we see this, especially with young brothers. So like now, when I take pictures with young black men,

I'll tell them, if you're not smiling, we can take a picture. And I would say, we're not taking a jail photo. Because what has happened is, we have created this generation of young black men who say yo man no you gotta be hard you gotta be a man he ate and literally mothers would say take a picture with my son and I said dude we will stand here until you smile and And then people go, why are you making him smile? I said, because I'm not taking a damn jail photo. It's a photo, bro.

Just smile. I'm serious. I don't. We'll be there. It'll be a standoff. And I'm like, ain't going to be no picture. Because I just don't understand this notion of we got to raise young boys to grow up hard. I got another one that will make everybody upset,

but I don't understand why men measure the size of their penis because there isn't a woman on earth that fell in love with the size of a man's penis. We fall in love with the size of a man's heart and sometimes his mind, but we don't fall in love with the size of his penis. And we've got the President of the United States, fool that he is, is running around talking about the size of his penis. And we've got the president of the United States, fool that he is, is running around talking about the size of his penis. That doesn't make sense.

And that's interesting, because there's a woman who is, Shanae Hall, is a radio personality out of Atlanta. And she posted this statement on Instagram. Somebody asked her a question, and she said, I need all these attributes in a man, and he has to be 6 1⁄2 inches. And these people started commenting all on, and I was kind of like, I said, I need all these attributes in a man, and he has to be six and a half inches. And these people start commenting all on us. And I was kind of like, I said, baby, it's a whole bunch of brothers, I said, who the right one for you. I said, and you don't, I said, you running around passing them up. I was just jacking with it.

She's like, well, I'm just being honest. I said, okay. I said, that's stupid. That's stupid. And we've got boys growing up thinking that they are people because of the size, for lack of a better word, of their dicks. And the men who then, okay, a woman has to have these physical attributes, these attributes, these attributes, as opposed to, I mean, the reality is, when we do see people, and I tell people all the time, people are like, Roland, looks don't matter. I said, first of all,

you're lying. I said, because the bottom line is, if we in a crowd and I spot you across, there's something I'm looking at that caught my attention. Right. Okay, I'm like, y'all can talk about, no, but what's on the inside? I'm like, I don't see the inside across the damn room. But, you know, you feel something. Right. Roland, I have on a pair of earrings.

Mm-hmm. feel something. Well, yes, right. And, Roland, I have on a pair of earrings. My parents were poor, and my mother, you know, a bunch of, we were poor. These are diamonds. And Mommy knew that I liked diamonds. For my 40th birthday, she gave me this. Diamonds are just rocks. And we pass rocks, we're here in D.C. We pass rocks all the time. But there is something about a rock. You're out in the desert. You're in wherever you are in South Africa. You've been

all over the world. And you'll see something and you'll pick it up and you're not responding to how it looks. You're responding to how it feels. And you find yourself taking it and you might bring it home. You might not. I mean, right there's something that you respond to that is not just. Now, let me be clear. I ain't like my wife when I met her. I ain't like her, okay? I thought she was a mean-ass preacher. I did not like her.

And I told this story to Bishop Jakes on TVN. Yes, on Christian television. Did not like her. Like, okay, plus she had a whole bunch of gray hair at 34. I'm like, ah, yes. On Christian television. Did not like her. Like, OK. Plus, she had a whole bunch of gray hair at 34. I'm like, ah, whatever. But this is exactly what this is. This is true. God's honest story about your sorrow. So we had church and we were not in the church. We were not in the sanctuary. I need to qualify this. We were in a foyer. I'm talking about frat brother

Carrie. And so she was down on the other end of the foyer. We had a singles party that weekend. And Carrie was talking and I went, damn, Carrie, Jackie got an ass on her. What? And so then when she came down, a group of us was supposed to go out to eat. And then it ended up being the two of us because everybody fell asleep. We were there until 5, 6 o'clock in the morning. And then just talking to whoever. And I just got divorced six months earlier. So I ain't trying to talk to nobody. Okay.

I'm like, look, no, damn that. And ended up talking, got a couple days later, and been together ever since. And I told her, I said, see, I personally think what she was saying. God was trying to send me all these other signals and I wasn't trying to feel that but he said just showing the butt he'll figure everything else out later so I told her you wore the right pair of black pants on the right day I said that's what got my attention I told that story to Bishop Jakes and he hollered I got emails from all over the world said I said, did you actually just go on Christian TV

and said, your wife's butt? I was like, look, I ain't gonna lie. I said, I'm gonna tell you, that's a true story. I said, and she's still here. And I tell her, right pair of black pants on the right day. There's power in the black woman's booty. I'm just saying. There might be, but there's something more.

Oh, yes, of course it is. Of course it is. But them right pair of black pants. Well, black pants matter, but you see what you love. You know, I've had a theory, and I'm going to retire in a couple of years, and so I'm going to have some time to work on that. My basic theory is that there is nobody white in America. The only people who could possibly be white are in fact immigrants.

Okay. Because American white people, especially the rich ones, they had babies. The wives had babies. But they didn't want their wives to be messed up. They didn't want somebody else fooling around with those tits. And so they would send the babies down to the slave quarter. And they would, the slave mother would send the babies down to the slave quarter, and they would, the slave mother would feed the children.

You are what you eat. So the richer you are and have been, the more likely it is that you are in fact black. Got black DNA. Absolutely. Just don't quit. But of course it's just do it. Just do it. I mean, that's Colin. I love't quit I love Colin I mean I I

thought what a great what a great kid what a great kid you know I grew up with one I grew up with but my generation Muhammad Ali mm-hmm and he was a great man just just a great man and the yeah and so the 50th anniversary of that yeah yeah they're just wonderful people. And to see him take that stand, you know. Now, I interviewed Jason Whitlock. And Jason Whitlock said, you know, he said, all y'all keep trying to compare him to Ali. I said, well, first of all, I said, I don't compare him to Ali.

Ali is Ali. Kaepernick is Kaepernick. So we had this vigorous debate because he feels as if Kaepernick should be more aggressive and talk. And I said, look, not everybody is going to be like Ali. Not everybody is going to be as talkative as he was. I said, everybody does their thing in their own way. That's quite true. But he's talking all over the world. Right. Because when I saw that, I went out. And of course, I have a lot of credit, so I don't have to worry about that. I went out and I bought T-shirts. I bought sweatshirts, I bought tennis shoes. I did the whole thing.

And my class was laughing at me. I teach a class every day, Tuesday and Thursday. And my class laughed. I said, no, he doesn't need me. I'm 75. Colin doesn't need a 75-year-old woman. But I thought if he could take that stand, because he lost a lot, if money would be important. But then, you know, what do James Brown teach us?

Money don't change you, but time is taking you on. Get it, get it, get down with it. I love James Brown for that. I do. We have to appreciate what the young man did. And he's speaking. Ali did what he did. And I loved Ali.

We traveled together and read poetry together. Really? Isn't he credited with like the shortest, what is it, the shortest poem ever? Something like that. It's one of them Guinness Book of World Records things. But he, first of all, watching films and things along those lines, it surely had to be a hoot traveling with him.

Oh, it was a lot of, well, first of all, his wife, you know, he was, what's the word? The word of the car count. He was a lover of women. That would be the other word. He took pleasure in. But his wife trusted me. And so we would be going someplace. You know, he went on the bus.

He always had the bus. What she didn't realize is that I had to fly. And so my son and I would, because I was trying to support my mother at that point, my son, a dog. And because the bus takes too damn long. Oh, yeah, it took too long. I don't know why Aretha Franklin would not get on that airplane. I'm like, Aretha, look, I know you had one bad episode, but I remember she called me once. She's like, oh, Roland, I'm going to have to get on this plane because this long bus ride across the country I'm like queen that's too long it's true

I don't even want to take a connecting flight I want a direct flight yeah I am not taking a bus two three days to get somewhere but you know speaking of re she could have taken that time to just relax and she had a great sister I knew knew Carolyn. You know, I knew Aretha, but not as well, but I knew Carolyn, you know. And she had a sister, and I didn't know Emma at all. Sometimes you need, when you're as famous as that, sometimes you need some time to yourself. Buses work. I didn't have time to be bothered with it. So his wife would say, how was the trip? You know, I said, oh, it was really smooth. None of my business what I lead in.

I'm not going to be married. When you think about these iconic figures, the thing that because as you were talking when you mentioned teaching, Dr. Maya Angelou, so a month before she died. And I had never in my life thought about it this way, because when you're talking about teaching.

So we had the National Portrait Gallery, they unveiled her portrait. And then they had the Smithsonian Museum of African Art, which they had a birthday celebration for. So I'm interviewing her. And I think I made some reference to my brothers and sisters being teachers. She said, no, no, no, no. You're a teacher. She said, I watch you. You use the medium to teach.

Talk about that, that you don't have to have the title teacher to actually teach people. That's true. Whatever lane you're in. Whatever you're doing. Let me tell you this about Maya. Maya was only two hours away from me. And I got to be a friend of Maya because she was always very nice to my mother.

She would run into mommy and she was always very nice. And so over a period of time, we got to be friends. But Maya thought she could cook. I mean, I know you heard her say that. I think I can cook, but actually, I'm right. I cook very well. So I would go down to see her because now she's in the wheelchair. I'd go down, and she would cook something.

And I would say, oh, this is pretty good, but why didn't you? And so I guess she was in the mood one day, and she said, why don't you come on down? I said, okay, because my best dish is a rack of lamb. And I said, I'll bring a rack of lamb so you can learn how it should be. But she couldn't be. She had a real kitchen. I mean, you know, a gas stove. So she had to be here because she couldn't be close to the gas there because she had.

Oxygen tank, yeah. And so I did it. I made it. It was beautiful. I'm a good cook. You like it? Look, I got made that it was beautiful. I'm good you like look I got it was beautiful, and we sat down to the table You know she always said a really pretty table And so cut it and she ate it and she's looking at cuz she's trigging that trying to figure out what to say

She said it could use a little salt So she's like I'm a fine Say I think I'm gonna knock you down on pick. Girl, you should be ashamed of yourself. You know this is a perfect fact to live. See, that's like when Obama went down to Louisiana, New Orleans, and Leah Chase, and she served her gumbo, and Obama reaches for the hot sauce. And she said, look, don't nobody put hot sauce on Miss Chase's gumbo.

And that thing went all around the neighborhood and then the city. I mean, it went everywhere. People were like, hold up. Did he, like, before he even tasted it, she snapped on him. She's like, I don't care you the president. You don't put no hot sauce. You don't put no hot sauce. You don't put no hot sauce not on Leah Chase gumbo. Oh, no.

And you ain't take. Miss Chase was wonderful. I cracked up when she told that story. I had the pleasure of knowing Miss Chase. You know, Leah was the husband, and he was over in Paris. Dookie. Dookie. I had the pleasure of knowing her,

and I had the extreme pleasure of being a good friend of Edna Lewis, who was on a stamp. You know, they finally put Edna on a stamp, which they should have. She should have her own stamp. They put Edna Lewis and Julia Child and James Beard and somebody else. They put them all on a stamp. But talking to the, you know, you don't do that. You don't put any salt on it. Either eat it, well, as my grandma would say, every time

I put something on the table, you have two choices. Eat it, don't eat it. Eat it or leave it. Because you didn't touch it. I mean, that's what, you know, I don't care what you thought about it. You didn't add, no. He good. He learned a lesson. Oh, no, he learned. He learned. Because she

checked him. She's like, I don't care if you're the President of the United States. He's like, you don't care if you're the president of the United States. He's like, you don't put no hot sauce on Miss Chase Gumbo. That's right. Right. He learned that lesson. Right. He felt that lesson.

He felt that one. When you think about all the things that you've done, is there something that you still wish, hey, you know what? I want to do that. Well, I have the pleasure. I tease my son. I only had one child. I have a son.

And my son had a daughter. And so I tease him all the time. I said, well, you know, no matter what you've been doing in your life, he's a lawyer. I said, but no matter what, you did one really good thing, no matter how you look at it. I said, you had the sense to have a daughter. And it's like, oh, God. But I'm into right now global warming actually. It's just a part of, I'm into space and stuff. The Arctic Circle has a worm and I'm always this, but actually you can't see it. It's a teeny tiny worm. And the worm has committed or given a community. The worm lives under like 45, it used to be 45 degree frozen. So it should not have been able to create a community. but now that it is warm it's coming down wow so we know that the

biggest predator on earth is us human beings are the worst predators we know that the second biggest predator is the sea urchin and everybody's upset about the sea urchin which tastes delicious by the way i don't know if you like sea urchin never had it delicious okay cut the head off and they have to put a to drain everything in and out, and you take tweezers and pull the... That sounds like a lot of work. That's a lot of work. Now, don't laugh, and don't correct me, okay?

I taught my granddaughter how to fix chitlins. I don't want to hear it rolling. Let me tell you something. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Go ahead. Go on. We have a history.

And if I don't teach Kai how to make chitlins, who's going to teach her? No. It's just pork. No, I'm smelling this because, you know what I'm saying, I went to my grandmother's house. Oh, my God. I hit that door, and them chitlins hit hit me and it almost sent me into a coma I ran out that door and stood in at the edge of her yard and my daddy came up because I would just how he's like what you doing said yeah man say dog I can't

go in there the funk of them chitlins hit me I said that I can't do it I said so because my grandma had a catering business and so I worked with this as I was seven years old and we had to prepare for some weed I was gonna say man I can't go in that house I said the funk of them chitlins I can't do it turn them inside out and clean them but now of course they can be frozen so you're not having any smell but do you know you really aren't do you know, we really aren't, do you know where most of the chitlins are coming from now? Where? Denmark.

Why? I don't know. But if you go to Kroger, do you have a Kroger here in Washington? Yeah, we got Kroger. If you go to Kroger, you'll see a package frozen, five pound, Denmark. I think it's the most interesting thing. I'm going to go talk to them Denmarkans. It's delicious because now they're really clean. All you have to do is just,

you have to check them. And beer, God created beer for only one reason. What? To cook with it. Nobody in their right mind. I was sitting there looking at a fool on the Supreme Court now, talking about he drank a beer. No, you didn't drink a beer because beer won't make it. Well, nobody drinks beer that much that you can't remember anything. But beer was made to cook with. Really? Oh, yeah.

You get with your chitlins, beer. You get your garlic. Come on now. Some cilantro. Oh, my God. Oh, cook it low all day long. No, I can't. I can't.

Oh, my God. Oh, rolling. Between chitlins and pig's feet and I... You know who makes the best pig feet, aside from somebody like me? Ooh, this conversation is killing me. Oh, no, the Japanese. The Japanese.

Oh, they do a wonderful... Because you boil them until they're... And then you split them. And then you put, you know, your red sauce. Put them in the oven. It's kind of like a barbecue oh and the heart they're so hard i live in i live in appalachia one of the most difficult things to find is pig feet pray the lord they're being shipped out right but they're in that slimy jar and looking at them? No, not pickled pig feet, real pig feet.

Well, what's the difference between the pig feet and the jar? It's pig's feet. You boil them. First of all, you have to clean everything, but you boil them low, right? A little beer, your garlic, just boil them. And then when they're done, because that's an all day.

You eat whole head cheese? I hate to answer you. You won't kiss me. Oh, my God. My grandmother and grandfather loved hog head cheese. We had to stop right there. I said, hold up. We ain't going to get to the cheese part.

I'm going to stop at the hog head part. I'm telling you. Okay, you got to understand. My grandparents were born and raised in Louisiana. Appaloosa's Louisiana. Okay. And they moved to Houston. And so growing up, I still had relatives who lived

in Crosby, Barrett Station, Baytown, which when they had the great Creole migration from Louisiana to California, they stopped all along the way. So I got relatives in all those towns. And so one time we went out and they had, and they went and got the hog, and it was in the back of the car, then they had to kill it.

Yeah. Okay, all right, so they shoot it, hit it with the gun a couple times, BB gun or whatever the heck, and then they threw it on the table and then slicing it up. So went through the whole deal, making a crackling

and then split that whole deal apart. And I was kind of like, you know, I don't really need to see this process. You know, I'm good. I stopped by Kroger, you know, and I pick up the sausage that way. I wasn't really trying to see the whole process. You know, slicing that bad boy. And it was a whole, but it was, yeah, it was, but that was my grandparents.

That's why I grew up. That's how we survived. Oh, I feel you. But not just that. We slaves, and there must be a better term, but we slaves were the ones who changed American cuisine. Yeah, that's true. We showed what can be done.

And the thing that I love best, and I have a lot of white friends, so I get to tease them about that, is greens. Because my white friends often used to think, well, what you wanted to eat was the greens. But what we as black people knew was what you wanted was the hog was the the potlicker that's why we became strong and smart but you keep the hog head cheese all to yourself oh you can take my portion you get more you have more than welcome to have my portion of chitlins hog head cheese pig feet you can have all that.

I sit right over there and I just be cool, you know, with a Kit Kat. I'm going to call your wife and we're going to get you into... We're going to get you into... Urchins. Sea urchins. You have to try it. First of all, what you just described is way too much work. I'm not trying to sit there.

Tweezers? Well, yeah, you have to pull the insides out. No, hold up. That's the chef's job. Bring me the finished product. Well, you rich. Hire yourself a chef. Bring me the finished product.

Look, my brother is an executive chef. He can do all that. Ask him. I ain't doing... Look, I brother is an executive chef. He can do all that. Ask him. I ain't doing... Look, I don't like dealing with crawfish. I ain't doing all that. That's because you're not like... You're from Louisiana.

No, I eat crawfish, but I'm not sitting there all that damn time getting a little piece of meat. Look, get me the finished crawfish, okay? I'm not going with them shells and everything. I can't do it. It's too... Nigga, it's too much work.

They sit there with a billboard and they over can't do it. It's too much. Niggas, it's too much work. They sitting with a beer bar and they over there hunched over and they working it and it's a little bitty piece of meat. That's too much work, nigga. I ain't got time for all that. I'm like, let the chef do all that. I'll pay you, don't worry about it. Shame, shame on you.

Yeah, shame on me. Plus, you understand, look, I'm a stubborn eater. First of all, I need to know what that is. Hey, what's this. Plus, you don't understand. Look, I'm a stubborn eater. First of all, I need to know what that is. Hey, what's this? Like, I don't do candlelight. I'll get my phone, hit the flashlight. What's this? I want to make sure something not crawl up on that plate with that candlelight.

No, I want to see what's on it. You don't understand. Hey, Henry, my production guy, he had a hold of this stuff I don't eat. Like, I can't stand cold food. Damn it, you better heat that food up. You wouldn't want raw oysters then, would you? Oh, no. No, I'm good.

Good. I stick with catfish. You're missing half of it. I stick with catfish, scallops, shrimp. I'm straight. But you know what's making a big comeback? What? Which I can't eat, rabbit.

No, I pass. Rabbit is making. But I remember cooking. I was babysitting. I live next door to Morgan Freeman. I was babysitting for his daughter and my son, you know. So I went down to the market, and I had gotten this rabbit stew. I thought it was really good.

And Thomas always wanted, my son always wanted to know, well, what are we eating? And I'd always share it with him. I'm with him. And he's like, well, what have we got? And I said, oh, we're eating rabbit stew today and he looked up he said you mean we're eating bugs bunny that's the last time i cooked right that's right right because you just scarred that boy for life i have i i i can't i can't i know i'm serious i i love people i don't experience let me tell you so because so Jay, this is a true story.

So we in China. Jay's white. Okay. So Jay believes in experimentation. I don't. Okay. I'm black. I keep my stuff simple.

I ate at McDonald's all five days. No, I had to because you don't understand. I was hungry as hell all five days. So we in one of these open markets. I mean, you know, steam is rising, all kinds of different stuff like that. And it smelled good. Don't mean it is good. So they had all this corn, had all this corn, this corn on the cob, corn on the cob, corn on the cob.

And so Jay goes, well, I'm going to try some of this. I was like, man, that's you. I'm good. Jay bit to that corn. What the hell was it? Feed corn? He bit. Okay, that wasn't a good idea.

He was like, okay, that wasn't a good idea. He was like, okay, that wasn't a good idea. It was feed corn. I said, oh, you thought it was regular ass corn. I said,

CJ, that's the difference between me and you. You're white. You will do that. Well, I'm not white. I said,

I'm black. I'm gonna stay in my lane. Came on you. You asked, you asked me what I would like to do. The one thing that I cannot do

because it's over. What? Was I always wanted to go with Anthony Bourdain to Vietnam. Ah. Because they make the best chicken soup. Gotcha.

In the world. You sure it's chicken? And I thought, boy, wouldn't it be great. I was so sorry he committed. You sure it's chicken? Well, Anthony. No, I'm not sure. I don't know.

I have to think about it. But it's delicious. I got you. But Anthony always said he wouldn't eat human, which was smart. I'm kind sure. I have to think about it, but it's delicious. I got you. But Anthony always said he wouldn't eat human, which was smart. I'm kind of with him on that. I am, and he won't eat dog, and I'm with him on that. Damn it, I'm with him on that. And then the rest of them, then you have to be careful what you eat

when you're eating in Korea especially. Yeah. But I thought, boy, I was so hurt when he committed suicide. I didn't know him, but I thought, wouldn't it be great to be able to find a way, and we'll go to Vietnam, and we'll just do a show like we're doing this, and we'll eat there. I don't know. Nikki, you might be eating by yourself.

I might be commentating. I'm just not. Look, I know what I like. I know what I like. Like Houston's restaurant, I've ordered the exact same thing for 15 years. I only, look, if there's not, here's the problem. You eat something and you switch it up. Now your palate's messed up and now you're mad.

No, no, you're mad. Look, look, my first wife, I could, my God. First of all, I used to like hanging out with my family. Cause my, my family, we cook. Okay. The whole family cook. Every man, every man in my family know how to cook. We don't need no women in the kitchen.

Y'all go sit down, we don't need y'all in here. Okay, so we can all cook. And my family, everybody, look, we got food, we do it up. Nikki, I'm not lying, it's a true story. I go to my first, we go to her parents at San Antonio, just the two of them. I'm like, damn it, we gonna eat Chinese. I'm like, I'm not trying to eat no damn Chinese

on Christmas, what's wrong? Damn it, I need a real meal. We go to this Chinese restaurant, it is the most God awful food. I'm like, damn it, we're going to eat Chinese. I'm not trying to eat no damn Chinese on Christmas. What's wrong? Damn it, I need a real meal. We go to this Chinese restaurant. It is the most God-awful food. I'm mad. I mean, we eat bad food. You mad? I'm like, you want to cuss folk out?

The only thing I had on my mind was going to the store and going to buy me a Mrs. Smith Dutch apple crumb pie and some vanilla ice cream to get that taste of that bad Chinese out my mouth. Nikki, while we go to four grocery stores, I can't find no Mrs. Smith Dutch apple crumb pie

at a single store. I got to sit there at that house that night, mad, cussing that food in my mouth, that taste of my palate, because it was that. See, bad food will make me mad. Kiss your wife. That didn't do it. I was mad because she food will make me mad kiss your wife that didn't do it i was mad because she didn't want to took me to the damn chinese place so she could have kissed me she could have kissed me she could did more than that i would be like damn it that bad food oh bad food will put you in a foul mood but great food like you bring me some bad gumbo i'll cut you out it better be some good gumbo, because I love gumbo. Yeah, gumbo's good. I love okra.

But I make good ice cream. I have to do that, too. I do homemade ice cream, yeah. What flavor? I make mostly vanilla. I make my grandfather's recipe. I like vanilla, you know. Grandmother liked pineapple. I like chocolate. Well, you can always add chocolate. Put your finger in it.

So, y'all, I thought we were talking about poetry today a good crime this actually ends up being a food discussion I'm sure you're shocked by that last question for you last question for you you said you're gonna retire but that's retired from teaching yeah then what you gonna do what do you want to do you can do like Will Smith did and jump out of a helicopter on a bungee jump over the Grand Canyon? No. Okay, all right.

No, I'm gonna write, I'm trying to write a couple of books. My granddaughter and I are going up to the Arctic Circle. We're excited about doing that. And I'm gonna learn, I hate to say this to you but i'm i want to learn how to use chopsticks and i say i hate to say i i can't i think it's so neat it is i i go hey that's cool bring me that fork i know i try nigga you're gonna starve by like one little rice on the thing i don't know how they do it i don't know how they do it. I don't know how- But they do. So the question is learning something different.

Right, I don't know. Look, I've tried, I'm like, say dog, bring me that fork. I can't be here all day with these dogs on chopsticks. I pretty much have learned, and you wouldn't like they did, how to open an oyster. And I've been working on- I've done oysters. I know, see?

It's too sly. There's no life without oysters. Isn't it too sly? It's too slime. There's no life without oysters. It's too slime. Oh, no, that's why God invented lemons. Put a little lemon on it. That's going to get rid of the slime? It's not slime. I ain't trying to eat that. Yeah, there you go.

What, with a straw next time? No, just put in a nice glass of champagne. See, I don't drink. Well, shit. I've never drank in my life. Don't worry about it, it's a digital show, you can cuss. It's all good, you ain't gotta cover your mouth, just you can say shit.

No, I've never drank in my life. I've never drank in my, all this. Well, you're deprived. I know, all this. When you retire, you have to go drink. No, no, no, my brother would tell you, like, I don't wanna see your ass drink. He'd say, you already a fool.

I mean, I have never drank in my life. Not even a little champagne? I've never drank in my life. My dad tried to give me some non-alcoholic beer. I wouldn't drink it. It's just I just don't. And I don't know if it's because my mom asked me when I was a kid to fix her some rum and coke. I don't know why in the hell I thought I was going to taste it and see if there was enough coke in it and just screw up my whole stomach up.

I think I probably don't drink. Again, I just never had the desire. Right. And probably because I had an uncle, my Uncle Warren, who's now in hospice care. My Uncle Warren had a Big Gulp before 7-Eleven created Big Gulp. Oh. I mean, I was like, dude, how did you get that big-ass cup? And it was all alcohol.

And he would come over. But I've never, I mean, we had alcohol. My parents drank. My family, we had parties and stuff. I just never, my brother does. I just never, ever was interested in wine coolers or anything. And people give me alcohol. I tell people come to the house, I'm like, y'all, y'all come drink all this stuff up on the wine hell they give me alcohol cuz I don't drink

it no I've just never had any interest now I'm always the driver oh and I'm always the one remember what everybody did so it's like what happened last night so this way I could happen at 925 you see so this somebody got to be the reporter on what happened no No, everybody could. There's a dish towel that says the advantage of living in a little town, which I do, is when you don't remember what you did, everybody else does. There you go. See, I remember what everybody does. My family will tell you, like, how he remember every detail of what happened at this event, at this family gathering.

Oh, yes. Oh, I'm the family reporter. So we're looking forward to the book when you retire, huh? Oh, no. I don't know if I'm going to write that book. That book is going to be a little ignorant. But that's how I use social media. So like my niece who just walked by, she does the work for us.

She has her own hashtag, the Lanny Chronicles, L-A-N-I. So stupid stuff she do, it go on social media. So like my niece who just walked by, she does some work for us. She has her own hashtag, the Lanny Chronicles, L-A-N-I. So stupid stuff she do, it go on social media. I create videos when she asks me dumb questions. When she's got a hair in a bonnet, I don't care. She's like, oh my God, my hair's in a bonnet. I don't care. It's my social media. It don't mean nothing to me. So yes, I will embarrass all of my nieces and nephews. And then they're like, Uncle Roro, you play too much. And I'm like, well, y'all are going to suck that thing up. That's what I do. So I'm the most hated and loved uncle at the same time. At the same time.

Y'all, the book is a good cry. I know we ain't talking about the book, but we're talking about everything else. But I'm sure there are poems in here about eating oysters and hog head cheese and sea merchants and everything else. Again, good crowd. What we learned from tears and laughter. And there's been a lot of laughter in this interview. Nikki Giovanni, always good to see you. Thank you so very much.

Thank you. Enjoy yourself. Thank you. And I can't wait for this presidential run. Because, hell, you younger than Joe Biden. Might as well run. Why not? Why not? Why not? Well, Oprah might. And I can't wait for this presidential run, because hell, you younger than Joe Biden. Might as well run. Why not? Why not?

Why not? Well, Oprah might, and that would be good. I could work for Oprah. Huh? Oh, no, she ain't running. She ain't running. She not gonna run. No, she not gonna run. She's rich. She ain't gonna run.

She ain't gonna run. She's like Michelle Obama ain't gonna ever run. I can tell these people. Oh, I mean, Cheryl shouldn't, because we know what happens when your husband used to be president. No, no, no. Oprah's not going to do it.

Oprah's not going to do it. Well, if she does, I'm going to be out there. Vote for Oprah. No, can y'all imagine a presidential campaign with Nikki Giovanni on the campaign? Can y'all imagine the debate between Nikki Giovanni and Donald Trump? So, Ms. Giovanni, your thoughts on President Trump's, his policies. And then she goes. I can speak English.

I'm going to tell you. And he doesn't. I'm going to tell you all right now. I'm going to tell you right now. This is straight up. I guarantee you this is exactly what would happen in a debate between Nikki Giovanni and Donald Trump. You'd be sitting there waiting at home for her to answer.

She'd be like, this motherfucker. That would happen. I'm telling you right now, Jennifer Lewis and Sam Jackson would jump up shouting. They'd probably be one of your VP choices. There you go. Oh, Lord. I appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Oh, thank you, sweetheart. It's been fun. It's been fun. Didn't I tell y'all Nikki Giovanni was unfiltered? Man, was that a wild and fun conversation. Please get her a new book on poetry and also support Roland Martin Unfiltered by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com.

Of course, your dollars joining our Bring the Funk fan club supports this show, allowing us to bring you those kind of conversations, unfiltered, unapologetic, and of course independent black news and so please do that uh i'm for you to do so because again we certainly need to have these platforms we can have that type of honest and frank conversation Holla! This is an iHeart Podcast.