#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 1.13: Booker exits 2020 race; Buttigieg's record questioned; Black woman waits for hours in ER dies

Episode Date: January 16, 2020

1.13.20 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Sen. Cory Booker drops out of the 2020 presidential race; Mayor Pete Buttigieg's record on advocating for Black people questioned; Black woman waiting hours in a ER dies; Trump's latest environmental rollback could hurt minorities and poor people the most; Former NFL player Matthew Cherry gets an Oscar nomination for the animated short "Hair Love" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered for Monday, January 13th, 2020. Roland, it's traveling today. I'm your host, Dr. Avis Jones-Dweaver. Cory Booker, the last black man standing in the 2020, well, almost next to last, right? And the 2020 Democratic presidential race has dropped out. So much for diversity, right? We have questions for Mayor Pete Buttigieg. His record as an advocate for black people?

Hmm. Apparently it's not what he says. We'll tell you why. A recent poll shows that 6 in 10 black Democratic voters, contrary to popular opinion, identify as moderate or conservative. We'll break that down. A black Milwaukee woman dies after waiting in an emergency room for hours. And Trump's latest environmental rollback could hurt people of color and poor people the most. Plus, former NFL player Matthew Cherry gets an Oscar nomination for hair Love. The children's book turned animated short. We'll show you Roland's interview with him from earlier this year. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling Best belief he's knowing

Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling It's on for Royal It's rolling Martin Rolling with Roland now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's Roland Martin now.

Martin. Senator Cory Booker announced today that he is dropping out of the race for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination. Here's his announcement video. I am literally here on the stage right now because 50 years ago, there was a lawyer on a couch who changed his life, changed his mind to get up and start representing families, one of them mine, who were discriminated against. Ours is the story of the faith we have had in one another. We know beating Donald Trump is the floor. It is not the ceiling. It gets us out of a valley. It does not get us to the mountaintop. There's not going to be a referendum on who he is. It's going to be a referendum on who we are and who we are to each other and for each other. We need all Democrats together to call to

this country, to stand together, to work together, to rise together. Today, I'm suspending my campaign for president with the same spirit with which it began. It is my faith in us, my faith in us together as a nation, that we share common pain and common problems that can only be solved with a common purpose and a sense of common cause. So now I recommit myself to the work. I can't wait to get back on the campaign trail

and campaign as hard as I can for whoever is the eventual nominee and for candidates up and down the ballot. But for now, I want to say thank you. Campaigning over this last year has been one of the most meaningful experiences of my life. Meeting you, meeting people across this country who believe, who know that we may have challenges right now in our nation. But together, we will rise. Although I'm shocked that that could, like, be a commercial for the actual campaign, it's interesting that Booker's withdrawal follows former Cabinet Secretary Julian Castro

and leaves a less diverse feel with Representative Tulsi Gabbard, entrepreneur Andrew Yang, and former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick as the only people of color candidates remaining in the race. Joining me now to talk about this is Derek Hawley, president of Reaching America, and political analyst Amisha Cross, political commentator and Democratic strategist, and civil rights attorney Robert Petilio. My goodness, I was shocked with the level of production. He had some money left over. Maybe that's where it was.

I think the issue... Your strongest fundraising was in the fourth quarter. Yeah, that's actually his strongest... But I think the issue is exactly that video is the reason that he's dropping out of the campaign. He never gave this race a raison d'etre. He never gave a Cassia Belli. He never gave this race a raison d'etre. He never gave a cassia bella. He never gave a reason that he's running.

And through the entire 30-second well-produced ad, I have no idea what he's running for. He never articulated to the American people what the issues are he's running for besides, I hate Donald Trump. With Bernie Sanders, you know exactly what Bernie Sanders is running for. With Elizabeth Warren, with Joe Biden,

you know what they are running for. But because he was never able to articulate the message, he was always kind of a squishy candidate. Wasn't he the feel-good candidate? He was trying to be a unity candidate. He always seems like he's yelling at you two.

Cory Booker, you don't think he just is trying to yell at you? No! Cory was trying to pull it? No. Bernie. Cory was trying to be. Bernie is scolding you all the damn time. Cory was trying to be the unity candidate. He was trying to bring the party together that has since had a lot of fragmentation.

I think some of that is pushed by the AOC crowd. And also Bernie and Warren, when we see, you know, the growth of the far left, he was trying to bring them together with the moderates to show that, hey, we need to do this and fight against the real detriment to America, which is Donald Trump. But you think he wasn't real. I think that was a part of the problem, too. And he also happened to be everybody's third or fourth choice candidate. I think that that was also an issue. There are a lot of people who are sad that he's gone. But when you ask those same people, he was further down that list in terms of their priority. But the problem, the problem is that you can be a unity candidate, but you have to stand for something. Like, you have to say, these are the things that Cory Booker 100% stands for. This is what a Cory Booker presidency will mean. And he never did that. He wanted to take a little bit of a call

of duty. Cory Booker had stood for the same things that he stood for the entire time he's been in the Senate as well as prior. He stood on criminal justice reform. That's something he can stand on. He has a record on it. It got lost in the wash. I think that part of the reason was, again, we were in a race that had way too many people in the beginning. And it was very hard for him to get that level of opportunity and to get his voice out there in that way. It wasn't that he didn't have these values, principles, and specific policies that he has enacted to stand on, because he did. You know what's interesting? I wonder if Barack Obama would have been in this race, would he have dropped off too?

No. The reason why I ask that is because you're right. It's so many people in this race. It's so broad. And the thing that really got his candidacy going was when he won Iowa. I'm not sure he would have made it to Iowa with this level of competition. This level of competition, this level of fragmentation in the Democratic Party. I think also, too, something that goes unspoken is you got to have that it factor. I don't think

Cory Booker had that it factor. Obama has the it factor. He still has that it factor. So I think when you start looking at that, I mean, that plays a huge part. But there was a time where Democrats heralded Cory Booker as the person who was going to have that it factor. Remember him coming off of his own DNC wowing speech that everyone was really excited about? No, I don't think. No, there was that time when he had that halo over his head where people wanted to see him go. When he was mayor. No, no, no, no.

Years ago. People loved Mayor Booker. Yes. Senator Booker, I think, is this maybe a watch-down version of Mayor Booker? The reason I think that President Obama would have absolutely had the same success

is, if you look at that 2008 field, it was far more formidable than this 2020 field. America didn't look like a different thing. Yeah, I'm not talking about the quality of the candidates. I'm just talking about the quality of the candidates. I'm just talking about the number of candidates. But even then, you had Dennis Kucinich running. You had Chris Dodd.

You had Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton. You had Bill Richardson. You had a large, diverse field. And President Obama, simply put, ran a better ground game. He ran a better campaign. Poor Booker ran a poor campaign. But he also, and you're right, to his point, he probably still could have risen above the crop. But I also, and you're right, to his point, he probably still could have, you know, risen above the crop,

but I think that there is something to be said about a race that has 20 plus people in it. This is the largest that we've ever seen in America. If you're 20 people, we know four. Let's be fair. Exactly. And nobody's talking about, you know, Steve Bullock. Like, they say they're running, but nobody really cares about those damn things. But, you know,

Obama also didn't have to run against any billionaires. I mean, it's a completely different dynamic right now. And I really think there needs to be some more discussion. I mean, what do you think about the Democratic Party? I mean, maybe even changing. We've talked about this for years. It never happens. But having two of the whitest states in the nation be the states that, in essence, weeds the feel out for us, it's ridiculous when you look at the complexion of the country, not to mention the Democratic Party. But people make that argument often, but we had that same one when Obama won, and Obama also won Iowa. So I'm like,

they were just as white eight years ago as they are today. So I think that goes to the it factor. It also goes to his strategy on the ground. It also goes to him being a dynamic candidate. But I also feel like there has to be an understanding that not only the candidate's message matters, but also who that candidate is matters. Obama had a lot of different factors that you don't necessarily see every day commonly on either side of the political aisle. And just to chime in, I also think that Iowa and New Hampshire mean a lot less now than they meant 20 or 30 years ago. You think they mean less? Far less now. Because let's understand, nobody really cares who years ago. You mean less? Far less now.

Because let's understand, nobody really cares who wins Iowa. You just need a place. If you're top three, top four in Iowa, you're fine. New Hampshire... Funders do care. Oh, no, no. It is a winning mechanism. But if you got enough money, i.e. Bloomberg,

you don't need to worry. Or even Joe Biden, who has an inane recognition, has the money. He doesn't have to win anything until South Carolina, and he will be absolutely fine. I think Iowa and New Hampshire have kind of taken themselves out of that Pemrose positioning of actually mattering in national elections.

It's nice. If you're going to be an insurgent candidate, it's a good thing to win, but it's by no means a fait accompli if you lose. Look at Giuliani's strategy in 2016, which was just go camp out in Florida and hope you can win there. So I think more candidates are ignoring those early states.

You know, but I think it drives the narrative, though. I mean, every day, if I see another damn poll about what's going on, I'm going to scream, because I'm like, I don't really care what they think. But, you know, on the other side of the coin, if you're looking at Cory Booker, if you're looking at what happened with Kamala, if you're looking at Duvall, who unfortunately looks like nobody's really talking about at all.

The reality is that I think any other black candidate that comes behind Obama is going to have a much more difficult time. That's to say it earning the trust of the black vote. I mean, and what are your thoughts about that? I think that's 100 percent factual. We've seen all of the postmortems, you know, years after Obama, and there is a concerted amount of African-Americans who aren't necessarily pleased with where America is today in retrospect. They don't think that we got as far as they would have hoped for. They don't think that the bill of goods that was sold during that campaign they actually

saw on the back end. And I think that with that being said, the belief that we're going to have a magical black candidate and he's going to change the structure, structural racism across America, I don't think that that's there anymore. There was a point in time where representation was enough. We were all just happy to have a black face in the White House. I think now that that's happened,

now we are looking more towards policy, more towards not just simply falling into the wash. And it's a little bit like the bulls after Jordan retired. Nobody wants to be the person that follows Jordan. You don't want to be Eddie Curry. You don't want to be Tyson Chandler. You don't want to be Jalen Rose. But it's also a good thing, though, Robert, because it has set up a dichotomy that says that beyond representation not being the only thing that matters,

that you have to continually push for policy change and advocate for things specific to what we need. Well, I don't think black people voted for Trump, good Lord, for Obama because he was black. I mean, to me, that's kind of like how you would refer to that. Because what happened was the reason why he won after he won Iowa, then they saw that him as a realistic candidate that could actually win. And I think they did go with their heart and they liked what he was saying. But I think that, you know, ultimately, at first, the bottom line is

black people are very pragmatic voters. We don't want to throw away our vote. I think that has a lot to do with why Biden is doing so well, not because black people love him, but because they think that he probably has the best chance of winning. I walked through the snow to go to Obama headquarters on West Adams Street to do phone banking because he was black. Obama receives 90%.

I was delusional. You're right. I mean, it became a movement unto itself. But what I'm saying is that he did have to prove himself first that he was viable because it's not like he's the first black candidate to ever run for president. So, you know, it is... And most black people were in the Hillary camp before I was. Exactly, absolutely, well into the Hillary camp.

And so I think what happened was, you know, once they saw that he was viable, I think there was a head versus heart moment. And once they saw that he was viable, people were like, okay, I can actually go with my heart as well as my head because I think he now has a chance. And you're right, he was viable, people were like, okay, I can actually go with my heart as well as my head because I think he now has a chance. And you're right, he became the movement.

He became the movement. But what do you think about Deval? That's supposed to be his boy. Is he going to be able to get some sort of magic out of this? But just as we said with Kamala, just as we said with Corey, what is Deval's purpose in running? What is his reasoning? What makes you

different than the other 30 people who put their hats in the ring to be a Democrat? I don't think anybody has a clear understanding of that, and that's why he hasn't broken out. He hasn't gotten the media attention. He hasn't gotten the fundraising dollars. It's a very good question as to what exactly his plan was,

and the national media is not paying attention. Black media is not paying attention. I'm not quite sure what his plan is. It's also the timing. So he wanted to jump in late. You can do that if you're a billionaire. It's hard to jump in late when you're not. It's hard to jump in late when you're trying to build a campaign infrastructure

and everybody's basically already chosen which camp they want to be a part of when it comes to campaign workers, people who are devoting their time, their energy, their own resources to get this thing off the ground. He's going to be a part of when it comes to campaign workers people who are devoting their time their energy their own resources to get this thing off the ground he's gonna have a really hard time we've already seen it for the for the other candidates of color who are no longer in the race right and many of them had longer records in in in politics and policy at the national level than he does so I think that there is it was an interesting thought process for him to jump in at the time he did, but I'm also wondering now what that, you know, watching Corey leave,

what is he thinking at this point? Right. But he would say, hey, I'm only the second elected black governor in history post-Reconstruction. I, you know, I jumped in late because my wife came down with cancer. I have legitimate reasons about these choices, but for some reason, he's not

catching fire. Because no one knows, and plus, he doesn't have the money either. Money became traction. He doesn't have it. It's too late. And I don't think his campaign, again, he has no substance. And he hasn't talked about any kind of... What are his policies, and what does he stand

for? We would know if he had the money. Like, he has a website with all this stuff on it. No one knows because it's not able to be promoted. Yeah, so it all boils down to the money. He needs the money, honey. I guess he needs some money. Well, we're going to come back right after the break

and talk about Mayor Pete. You want to check out Roland Martin Unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there?

Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. So Mayor Pete Buttigieg hasn't really caught on in the African-American community with his 2020 bid. His team did a poll that suggested

that it was because of his sexual orientation. Uh-huh. But that's not the case. There are several things in his background that are extremely questionable as it relates to African-Americans. For example, a recent article in The Root revealed that when Pete Buttigieg took office in January 2012, after winning the city's first open mayoral election in 24 years, South Bend actually had

three African Americans in highly visible positions in public leadership, including the mayor's assistant Lynn Coleman the fire chief Howard Buchanan and police chief Darrell Boykins within three months three months now all three were gone and on a recent visit to a homeless shelter in Watts California he was greeted by a dozen Black Lives Matter protesters many from his hometown who called called him anti-black and anti-poor. So, do we need to dig deeper into Mayor Pete's background? What do y'all think? I think he absolutely dig deeper,

but I do always hold... have cause when somebody suddenly starts rising in the polls and then all of a sudden all this racist stuff just pops up. Just like this week, Elizabeth Warren suddenly says that Bernie says that a woman can't win. Where was all this the last year and a half when he was running? Mayor Pete has his problems

when it comes to African Americans. He tried to reach out to black voters by drinking 40 ounces on a YouTube series. That was a poor idea. He tried to reach out to black people by eating fried chicken. Wait a minute, wait, stop, stop, stop. I missed that.

And Elizabeth Warren just hosted a fried chicken thing for black people by eating fried chicken. Wait, wait, stop, stop, stop. I missed that. And Elizabeth Warren just hosted a fried chicken thing for black people, too. I mean, if we're going to talk about missteps, we need to count all of the missteps. No, he did not. I'll show it to you. But look, the problem is, this points to one big problem, which is that many of these candidates,

even though the rank and file of the Democratic Party, people who vote every election cycle, are older black women, the people who are knocking on doors, these are younger black people, the people running these campaigns are very rarely African Americans, and that's why they don't know how to reach out to black folks, because they don't have black folks around them. So I think Mayor Pete's record is absolutely something that's fair. But we have to also look into the fact that these campaigns are not being run by people who look like us.

The polling, the messaging, the strategy is not being set by us. The pollsters, the mail people are not being set by us. And that's why you're getting lily white policies. Well, here's the thing. Here's my thought about Mayor Pete. And I would love your reaction to this, Amisha. I don't think it's that, you know, it's just popped up. I think it's just that, quite frankly, the mainstream media loves themselves some Mayor Pete.

It's just like, you know, Miss Jenkins from, you know, Martin. Don't say nothing bad about Miss Jenkins. Okay, don't say nothing bad about Mayor Pete. They will not release anything. Anytime you see all of these videos coming out with him insulting the intelligence of black people, essentially, all of the nefarious things that he did, apparently, in St. and in his particular small town with regards to the black community there.

None of that is coming from The Washington Post, The New York Times, Politico. None of them are coming from those spaces. They're coming from places like The Root, places that are more independent organizations who are the only ones apparently involved in investigative journalism. So what is happening with the mainstream media? I wouldn't call them Michael Harris put in investigative journalism. How come none of these have come up from the mainstream media, but they are all over themselves, for example, with all the hit pieces with Kamala Harris?

Why do you think that Mayor Pete gets a free ride? Now, I will say that I think that Kamala Harris was treated unfairly by the mainstream media. With Mayor Pete, I don't think that there's a free ride at all. What I think happens is that we've seen him continue to grow throughout this campaign process and continue to get further and further ahead in the polls. He was flying under the radar for months in the beginning because honestly, nobody thought he was going to be able to make it to where he is right now. They didn't. People didn't think that he was going to be a mainstay player in this race at all. They counted him out as the small town mayor. Somebody with very little experience thought that he would be a mainstay player in this race at all. They counted him out as the small-town mayor, somebody with very little experience, thought that he would be a blip and he would be gone.

I think that right now you're seeing mainstream media be more attentive because, to be honest, he's got more people who are surrounding him. He's got greater stance. He's making the fundraising dollars. He's really taken a, he's really carved a space for himself throughout this election process. To be fair, though, I think that pieces like Michael Harriot's, and if you've been following him, I know that a lot of black people have, he has made a concerted effort to go after Mayor Pete and almost Mayor Pete solely. Yes, he has written some investigative pieces on a few other candidates as well. But when it comes to the fervor, when it comes to the amount of articles, this has been a him and Mayor Pete. And that's a very interesting thing. And Mayor Pete has taken to actually go and have a conversation with him.

There was a phone call between them. And we see more and more of these pieces from him come out, and many of which have also had particular elements of them debunked. And nobody is talking about that either. What was debunked? I think it's very important that folks realize that. What was debunked? So when he makes these statements about how little support that he has, how many people are against him in South Bend, there are so many people who

have come out who have been okay, but nothing has been nothing has been debunked with regards to the facts of what actually happened in South Bend. When we're talking about the the officers that you were saying that got removed, the ones who were in leadership, we know that that happened. That's that's right. Knowledge. Okay. And that't something that Michael Harriet said that nobody didn't already know. Exactly. So that's factual. And when we talk about what he did with the former sheriff there and the tapes that he claims that he didn't want to release. And we have no way of knowing whether they were heard or whether they weren't. So this is a leap that Harriet is taking and leading along black people who are only looking at this as one as their source and taking it as fact. So it's I just find it I just find it very interesting, though, that that do you think it's just a coincidence that all of a sudden all these black people are no longer employed

once he becomes mayor 90 days later? No, I don't I don't think anything's coincidental. I think that there was a and anybody looking at it knows that there was a tragic situation that was happening within that within that police department that should have been handled specifically. I can't say, say you know without full knowledge of the details of the case which I don't think that we currently have right a lot of that is sealed away anyway so I don't think anyone can make those those types of logical leaps okay and the fact that he claims that he doesn't he didn't understand that there was segregation in public schools in his own city you think

that's okay there's a second As somebody who comes out of the education policy framework and is working at the national level and at the local level, I can tell you there are black mayors across this country who don't know that segregation is happening in their cities as well. Are you serious? Dead serious. Again, I have fought on behalf of two different parts of the country.

Or they're not doing anything about it. That's two different things. If you are having Mayor Pete come out and say, and he's lived there all his darn life. I mean, there are so many things there. I mean, there are so many things. And the reason why I'm just kind of, it seems like maybe I'm picking on the reason why I am is because I believe that Main Street media has been giving him a pass.

There you go. They have not been critiquing him at all. And at the same time, they have been disparaging the black community by saying the reason why we don't like him is because he is homosexual. The reality is that we have critical thinking skills and we see what has happened in South Bend. And if he wants to extrapolate what he's done to South Bend to the rest of the black population, I sure as hell don't want him as president. I just agree with you on everything you just said, because first of all, he has a very small black constituent and constituency. Where has he got Masaad South Bend? He has been able to build the following. He's been able to build the campaign strategy. He's been able to build the fundraising apparatus. Because he's a white boy. Nobody, nobody other than a white boy with that little... Who have not been able

to do what he's been able to do. Exactly, but I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, but what I am saying is that you cannot find a black person, or even a woman probably, with that scant bit of experience being taken seriously... AOC is being taken seriously right now and making... She is fundraising more than anybody else in the DCCC and not giving to the DCCC. She's not running for president. You're bringing that out of left field. What I'm saying is that you say nobody has ever run.

She ran with zero experience. She was a bartender. You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm saying run for president of the United States, not run for any office. That's not what the point is. I'm saying no one with that scant level of experience besides a white boy can run for, can I finish my sentence, can run for president of the United States of America and be able to raise millions because of that background.

Nobody but the white boy. And I hope that a black person is going to be able to prove this wrong. I would love to see it, but I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. Maybe you will. And people didn't think they'd see a black president in their lifetime either. And we saw that happen two terms. I would love to see it as many as unqualified white boys get stuff. This is normalcy.

And this is just the recent version of it in presidential politics. You touched on it. I thought you were going to go all the way with it. I think he's been chosen. The media has selected this boy. And no matter what, he's going. And that's why he is white right now. And he's got all these major fundraisers because he's been selected already. Yeah, I think the fact that he is

gay Plays into his favor right I agree. I do agree because it's another first absolute It is a first and they're pushing it as a way to say this is a first That's right where they can privilege that over the fact that he is also riding the coattails of white male privilege to get to where he is. He is not qualified. If the man can't even beat damn Tom Perez, how the hell is he going to be president of the United States? 8,000 people vote for you your entire life. Now you're going to... We have a man in the White House right now who never had anybody vote for him in his life before becoming president of the United States. And you see where we are.

Thank you. That's my point exactly. That is my point exactly. I do not want that replicated on the Democratic side. Keep my ass out of this conversation. Well, let's see. Another recent survey shows that Joe Biden holds a wide lead among black voters in the Democratic presidential race. The survey also offers insights

into the ideology of diversity within the black community. For example, six in 10 black Democratic voters identify as moderate or conservative. Biden gets 58% support among that group, compared with 14% for Saunders and 8% for Warren. The survey was done by the Washington Post and the nonpartisan research firm, IPOS, Ipsos, I think it's Ipsos, Ipsos, okay? So, you know, I'm really not too surprised by that survey because, I mean, we know that the black community historically is conservative when it comes to social stances on a lot of issues, particularly because of our religiosity. But when it comes to policy, we tend to be more on the liberal side because of the way in which we need to rely on laws in order to protect us from a repressive system. Anything from that scares you or surprises

you? No, no, no. Nothing surprises me. I think we have to understand that for far too long, political science was taught on the political spectrum, that there's a left and that there's a right. That's not how politics work. It's more of spectrum, that there's a left and that there's a right. That's not how politics work. It's more of a cloud. It's a nebula. None of us simply say, well, is this right here on the political spectrum?

That's where I'm at on all issues. Someone like me, I'm pro-life, but I'm also pro-civil rights. I'm pro-gay marriage, but I'm also low taxes. I think we all exist with this double consciousness when it comes to politics, and that's being distilled down. I think the problem that many of the Democrats in the field are having right now is instead of listening to what black voters want, they want to tell them what they want. And that's why when you ask Elizabeth Warren a question about, well, what are you going to do to help the African-American community, she starts talking about illegal immigration. Or she starts talking about climate change or the Green New Deal because those are the places where they're comfortable and that is what they want us to fall into the boxes they put us in instead of simply listening to the words we are telling them.

And then when you don't get the black turnout that Barack Obama got in 2012, you blame it on black folks. Well, why aren't black people turned out? You ain't give us nothing to vote for. Why aren't you standing up and getting out there? What you got for us? Because they talked about reparations, what, two months in the campaign? And then when they finally

got to the debates, it all went away, the entire conversation. And every black man is not a criminal. So criminal justice reform is not the only issue that we care about. We have economic issues, we have family issues, we have social issues, we have all sorts of things that we would like to do that don't involve prison. So that's the only

campaign talking point that you have. The minute that someone says black people and you think criminals, that's your problem right there. I'll be interested in seeing the cross tabs for that if so's poll just because what we do know is that by and large African Americans have always been more

conservative on social issues as as you spoke of, but also as it leans towards their religiosity. But it takes a major break when you're talking about Gen X. When you're talking about Gen X. Right. At the end of the day, like, the younger you go, the more you see a further push to the left,

and a lot different from the generations that are beyond us. So I do think that in terms of how a lot of the candidates are looking at the political sphere around black people now, it is more so towards this up-and-coming generation of black people, a lot younger black people, than they are looking at traditional African-American voters

who have not changed that much in terms of the policies and the platforms that they stand for. But the thing is, sorry, real quick, everybody's liberal when you're young because you ain't got no real bills. Yes, you do. You ain't got no real bills. Yes, you do. You got no loans. Yeah, but you ain't paying the bank yet.

You get a mortgage, and all of a sudden you start believing in the laws a lot more. You get some property that's going to get stolen. We need more cops all of a sudden. So you get more conservative when you get older. So, yes, of course, Gen Z right now is very liberal. Let's take everybody's money and build a unicorn castle or something. Like, no!

But when it's your money they take you, like, hold on real quick. What are we spending $50 trillion on, what? So I think what we have to understand is black folks aren't just socially conservative, as they say, we're also economically conservative on a lot of issues. Right. The next time when your cousin come home asking for money See if your granddad don't sell like he in the Tea Party Because we are also economically conservative

I think the Democrats are for far too long dependent on the fact that Republicans like to be racist to To kind of float the policies, but I don't know if those polls shows or that that Democrats will go jump ship and go vote for Republicans at all. No, no, no, we'll stay home. Two options are stay home or vote. Because at the end of the day, again, this is where Democrats have always been, by and large, and still vote Democrat. I think that what we have right now is a party that has become so fragmented when it comes to the far left versus the moderates. And we're seeing that bubble up that, again, there's a reason why there are double-digit leads for Joe Biden. And it's because people feel comfortable in that moderate, more conservative lane when it comes to health care, when it comes to economic moves and employment,

when it comes to making sure that your housing affordability is there. They understand his plan. They want to make sure that we're not putting future generations into multitudes of debt by going above and beyond when it comes to free college for everyone or free, you know, medical services for everyone. They want to make sure that, you know, we're reeling this in a bit. Or it could just be they are more practical in terms of what they believe is realistic. I mean, let's just be honest. I feel like Bernie Sanders is like the Easter Bunny.

I mean, honestly, when you look at his, just, hey, I'm going to give away all this stuff. He's not, yeah, it's like he's not, this is, he would not be a king. I mean, this would have to get through Congress. His legislative history is like thin as can be. So even as a senator, he hasn't shown the ability to be able to lead legislation through Congress that actually becomes law. So, you know, I think what is going on here also is not so much, I think a critique that I think that a lot of maybe more seasoned people are looking at this situation that maybe young people look at it very differently, is that we understand what it would actually take to get that through.

And frankly, we think he's lying to you and selling you a bill of goods, claiming that he's going to give you all this stuff that he has no ability to do. And so it's a bit of practicality that I think is showing between the generations. I mean, I don't know. I just think to go along with, these guys are so far to the left,

as you said, none of this will ever happen. It will ever happen. And so I think that along with the fact that these polls have come out recently, we just talked about this last far to the left, as you said, none of this will ever happen. It will ever happen. And so I think that, along with the fact that these polls have come out recently, we just talked about this last week on the show, that more blacks, it goes to what they're saying, are conservative and also in favor of Donald Trump right now. And that's very interesting when you break down by sex as well.

Well, you know, on that point, I made a prediction three years ago now that I thought Donald Trump could get close to 30 percent of the black male vote. I've seen nothing to knock that off right now. What you don't see from Democratic candidates is any agenda for black men going forward. The only person who had one was Cory Booker. He dropped out today. And I think the issue also with the Bernie Sanders and the Elizabeth Warrens of the world is black folks live through government giving us stuff a lot. We live through government cheese.

We live through welfare. We live through public housing projects. We don't really like that much stuff being run by the government because it's usually not the best thing on earth. Trump, who's talking about opportunity zones, who's talking about criminal justice reform, who has record low black unemployment, who has record high stock market, your 401k is doing great, and then Bernie Sanders is saying, I'm going to take all that away, I'm going to give you government housing again. We're like,

you mean what? What do you mean government housing? I think it's resonating. I just think there's a lot going on right now, and the Dems are so far, so far to the left with some of these policies and so And I just they're they offer false hope and just unrealistic outcomes And I think a lot of us now I think we're wise enough to see those policies will not they will not go

What's really interesting though? I love your opinion on this and you should If you look at for example, if if you compare Bernie Sanders versus Elizabeth Warren, for example, she did pull back a little bit, for example, on her Medicare for All as originally espoused. You know, she got a lot of heat about how are you going to pay for it, which Bernie is just like, well, fuck it. I'm sorry. My bad. I'm sorry, guys. He don't even like, hey, I don't know. Don't ask me. But, you know, she actually came up with a real plan, right? And then when people saw it, they got a little spooked. And then she said, okay, well, I'm going to phase it in. And since that has happened, her support has dropped.

So, you know, what do you think is the dynamic there around when you are actually asking people to be very transparent about how you would do the things. How can Bernie have Medicare for all, get rid of student loans? You know, what is the other thing he wants? It's like another big thing. It's so many big things. Green New Deal. Green New Deal. Everything.

It's like I know that we're spending trillions of dollars on, you know, defense that is absolutely freaking ridiculous. But really, to tell you the truth, to be perfectly honest, and I'll shut up and let you speak, the thing that really pissed me off about Bernie was in the last cycle, when he was asked about reparations, his immediate answer was, oh, it's unrealistic. I'm like, nothing you're saying is realistic. If that's your standard, you might as well be for reparations. So ever since then, I've just kind of counseled Bernie.

But let me just ask you, you know, what do you think is the dynamic there between then the Bernie's of the world and the Elizabeth Warren's of the world, specifically with the millennials and Generation X? So Bernie and Elizabeth Warren actually have a very similar lane up until recently when they kind of tried to carve out a space that made them look slightly different. They stand together when it comes to Medicare for all. I will say that Bernie definitely had a smarter answer to how it would be paid for than Elizabeth Warren originally did, and that's why she got a lot of the pushback that she did. So how did he say it was going to be paid for?

He admitted that the money was going to come off the backs of a lot of the middle class as well. She refused to make that announcement. It's not just going to come from the top 1% or this wealth tax. Some of that is going to trickle down to the middle class as well, and she has to be honest about that. When she decided to finally release how she was going to phase it in, once again, she got pressed on it.

You can't do this your first day in office. Because that was also something that she had initially projected out. He just said that he was going to do it the first day in office on day one. I'm like, really? When we talk about realism, then there has to be that understanding that big pieces like that aren't done on day one. Right. We know what the makeup of the Senate is. We know that congressionally this is going to be a very hard process.

We know that this is going to be a very costly process, a total overhaul of the system. And I think that when it comes to people like Bernie and Elizabeth Warren, there has to be an understanding amongst the general electorate population that of just how government actually works. Right. Because they both have said a lot of things. Absolutely. On the same point, even on the Medicare for all, let's just take that in a silo. Barack Obama had a majority in the House of Representatives. He had a liberal Supreme Court. He had 60 votes in the United States Representatives. He had a liberal Supreme Court.

He had 60 votes in the United States Senate. And we couldn't get a public option pushed through. So the idea that all of a sudden we're going to go from public option to Medicare for all and Green New Deal and all this other stuff, everybody knows it don't make no sense. And then when Elizabeth Warren, the one thing you have to do, and most men know this, once you start lying, you got to ride the lie out to the grave. You don't just stop lying midstream. Whatever that lie is, I told you when we met, that's the lie I'm telling you now. That girl you saw me woof in 02, that was my cousin.

And she's my cousin today in 2020. There's always going to be the lie. You don't stop lying me in the middle of your damn lie. You're going to do your, I'm going to stop lying. I'm going to tell you what it's really going to cost. You don't do that. You see what happens. You keep lying.

So with this show, women also get relationship advice. Exactly. Okay. That's very insightful. Thank you. I'm going to keep that in mind. Well, you know, we'll see how that goes. All right.

So next, let's talk about Trump's proposed overhaul of environmental law, which aims to streamline project reviews. But those changes most likely impact minority communities and those with high poverty rates the most. The White House detailed a sweeping proposal to revamp the National Environmental Policy Act. Critics of the plan say that with polluting industries already more likely to set up shop in minority communities

as well as those with poverty, those same areas will bear the brunt of the changes. I'm telling you, I just feel like they are doing everything they can to completely destroy this country while they can. I mean, nothing has been left off the table. Absolutely. But we know that conservatives, even before the Trump administration, have been picking away at the EPA and environmental protections for the longest. The interesting thing about his administration doing it is that he also does the doublespeak about how much he cares about the environment at the same time. He lies all the time. We know that African-American

communities are suffering the most. We know that because a lot of our schools were actually built on former factories. We know that because our air is of the lowest quality. We know that because a lot of our communities were actually those major factory towns. African-American communities cannot afford to sit idly by and be quiet when it comes to environmental issues. I have heard several people say that's not their top concern. And I can understand that from an economic perspective. If you're an African-American in this country, oftentimes people don't tie those two together. But from a health perspective, because health care does happen to be a top priority for them as well,

environment ties very logically into that. When we're talking about asthma, when we're talking about all of these child respiratory issues, when we're talking about mothers who have their children early, the birth rates in terms of the weight at birth and them being lower now than they were a generation, two generations ago. All of that goes back to a lot of our failed environmental policies and environmental action that has not affected the black community at the rates that it should have. And I think that this administration, first and foremost, doesn't care. But also we have to inform the black community more about the direct cost of not getting involved in environmental action. I think there's space between saying someone doesn't care about the environment and also some of the more extreme environmental regulations that we're campering business.

Let's understand that if you gave the California far-left liberals control of all the environmental regulations, gas would be about $25 a gallon right now. Let's understand that they had waterway restrictions, where if you had a farm that was way off of a public waterway, they would declare that public land and give you two years of paperwork in order to just have irrigation for your field. They had so many regulations that were cutting out on factory jobs, mining jobs, coal production, all those other things. So we can't throw away the economic future for people who are working class.

A lot of those would move because it's cheaper to do the work. But hold on. We're talking about those good old-fashioned blue-collar jobs where you can come out of high school, work there, put your kids through college, take care of the family. But these are the same businesses that were dumping their pollution into the water. But this is why we have to have a balance on those things because we go too far to the left. Then you shut down the economy in order for some delusional environmental. We're going to save the penguins in 150 years. Well, if we go too far to the right, then we shut down the economy in order for some delusional environmental, we're going to save the penguins in 150 years. Well, if we go too far

to the right, then we end up with brownfields. So let's find a place in the middle. Tell the people in Flint that, I guess. One of the issues, and certainly we have to have regulations, obviously. But one of the issues that we work on the most, and I've said this many times, is energy poverty. And no one's talked about that.

Okay, energy poverty exists when individuals or families spend upwards of 25% to 30% of their total income on their electric bill. I'm going to give myself an unselfish plug, but if you go to our website, energypoverty.org, on our homepage, there's a website where you can scroll over, and it shows the level of poverty that people are paying for their electric bill in every state. And you have some states that people are paying upwards of 50, 60, 70 percent of their total income on their electric bill because they don't have access to affordable electricity.

And so now when you start talking about these individuals, these same communities, these people, African Americans, are the ones who are struggling the most to pay their electric bills. And we all know somebody who struggles each month to keep up with the rising cost of their energy. Somebody get Christmas presents because they had to pay the electric bill. And so when you start looking at these policies and regulations that are holding up pipelines, i.e. the Atlantic Coast pipeline in Virginia right now, I've gone down, I've given testimony

and everything and spoken at that place. And the people down there that are holding these up, these environmentalists, they're down there screaming environmental racism, not one of them were black. And so how can you scream environmental racism and talk about that particular issue if you haven't

experienced any racism? And so when you start hearing about these environmentalists, it's not black people out there raising these signs. There is no... Now, I agree with Tresha that we should be out there screaming and screaming that kind of stuff, because I do know right there in Richmond, shooting in Buckingham County, where this pipeline is going in,

the regulations that are holding this up right now, they have gone three... It's ten times... They've gone ten times more in terms of the safety regulations that they had to but these environmentalist groups are still holding this up well I would say that there are also there are black environmental justice activists who would probably say to you on the other side of the coin there are lots of

corporations who get off scot-free and they're polluting water. They're dumping chemicals. I mean, exactly. They have all sorts of chemicals that lead to asthma, that lead to higher rates of cancer in our communities because of the lack of regulations or very lax regulations. And under this administration, it keeps getting worse. I mean I think that you know and then the whole coal thing oh my god don't get me going on that but the reason why I say that is because that is an type of energy that quite frankly technology we've moved beyond that and I would argue that if the coal industry was

majority black in terms of the people who worked in that industry nobody would give a damn about what happened to the coal industry nobody would give a damn nobody would tell them anybody would give a damn about what happened to the coal industry. Nobody would give a damn. Nobody would tell them any... Nobody would give a damn about the coal industry. But hold on. Let's understand that coal is still what produces most of the electricity in our electricity grid. National gas coal is second.

And why is it? Because we're propping it up as a government to save those jobs for those people? When you look at all the other energy alternatives that we could transition to that would be cleaner and would produce well-paying jobs for people, including black people, you know, it... But hold on.

The reason we haven't transitioned yet is because we don't have the storage technology, not the production technology. So right now, if you... We don't have the battery capacity to power our civilization. That's why we still use coal. It has to be done continuously. There's no way to store your wind for when the wind turns off. There's no way to store your solar when the solar comes.

We know that Trump is afraid of wind. We need to invest in that, but it's not ready yet. But on that point, let's take it down to a very small level. Obama-era car regulations on fuel efficiency and mileage, great thing. Make cars go longer for less gas. The average price for a car went up almost $5,000 over the last 10 years because of the changes that need to be made. So more poor people are affected by the fact they have lacked transportation because they can't get the newer cars. So we've got to look at the trickle-down effects and finally compromise the middle position.

No one is saying everybody just go pour toxic waste into the river. But what we're saying is we have to take in the net effect that happens to poor people. And you notice it's usually Susan Sarandon and some other millionaire getting arrested for these climate change protests. They're not worried about what happens to the poor people just because they want to save the seagulls.

And so I had an article, an op-ed that I wrote that protesters don't represent us because unfortunately when they have these hearings, we're at work. Yeah, it often depends on where they're protesting. But obviously I would probably say the strongest environmental protest we've seen in recent years that actually included a sizable number of black people, was when it came to Flint. There's a distinctive argument that can be made for the lack of jobs or jobs being lost when you do enact certain environmental policies, but that does not mean that you do not enact them.

There's a Netflix special. I don't have anything to do with it, so it's not an endorsement. The Devil We Know is basically the story of how Teflon became a multimillion-dollar corporation and how they basically funneled money to an entire community and an entire state because a lot of people were employed by the factories.

However, those people who were employed, specifically the women, were having children early and children that died because they literally were pouring toxic fluid, toxic waste, into the river streams that ended up in those people's water, that ended up killing a lot of the wildlife, but also ended up causing severe disabilities amongst the kids as they grew

up, the ones who actually made it, and killed a lot of the ones who didn't. What the corporation decided to do was to stop hiring pregnant women because they noticed that that was a problem because their kids were automatically dying, but they were still funneling this into the river, and they knew the entire time. It wasn't just the EPA. There were several regulatory bodies that told them they did not care. And when you went and you talked to the neighbors in the community, aside from those who had little children who had disabilities or who died early,

they still fought to have that factory there. And they fought to have it there because they said that this was the lifeblood of their community. This is what employed their husbands. So on the one hand, you have thousands of people dying. On the other hand, you have folks who are like, what else are our husbands going to do? Oh, my God. We've got to come up with a better way. Yeah. So we shouldn't have to choose between being able to survive economically and being able to survive literally. That's crazy. Not a choice I want to make. So late Friday, U.S. District Judge Allison J. Nathan of the Southern District

of New York issued a landmark decision that said, New York state's refusal to include inactive voters on poll ledgers used in polling places on election day violates the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution and the National Voter Registration Act of 1993. The Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, together with several other organizations, filed suit in federal court in New York on behalf of Common Cause New York in 2017

to restore the voting rights of more than one million inactive New York voters. Judge Nathan cited extensive evidence that New York's practice of moving voters to inactive status based on a single piece of returned election mail resulted in tens of thousands of voters improperly moved to inactive status due to widespread postal service errors. They're going

to blame that on the post office. You know that's wrong. The judge found that the refusal to include the names of inactive voters on lists used at polling places caused disenfranchisement, confusion, and delay for voters across New York. This is another victory for voters. Oh my goodness. So, you know, it's really interesting to see what's going on with voting rights right now anyway. I mean, it's good to have something that's maybe a victory because actually there have been so many things that has gone wrong, millions of people all over. I think that this next election will come down to not just turnout, but just the level to which the voting polls have, the voting rolls have been purged in key states across this nation. Well, that's why the issue of voter education is so crucial,

because we have voter purges. I'm from Georgia. We have a voter purge in Georgia, Wisconsin. But the solution to a voter purge, one, is fighting it through court, but also to educate the electorate that to understand whether or not you're an active status, to not just look out for this mail, the best way to not be purged is to vote in more elections. So I think that's the information we have to get out to people, to not just wait for the presidential election to vote.

Vote for dog catcher. Vote for county commissioner. Vote for whatever comes up. We have elections all year round in most municipalities, and we get more people in the habit of voting and not simply waiting for the major elections, then we have far fewer issues. I think that absolutely makes sense, because people like to point towards the voter purges in some of the some of the hard fought states.

But to be frank, voter purges exist in 45 states right now. Doesn't matter whether they're conservative or liberal states. They exist at my home state of Illinois, the place where I vote. We have them as well. They will send you something in the mail. If you haven't voted in the past three, four elections, you're going to get a reminder. Hey, you might want to sign up or you might want to go and, you know, check, see if your address and everything is correct, because you go next time. You might not be able to you might not be able to actually vote.

So I do think there's something to be said about Americans in general voting beyond just the presidential election. And also understanding that just because you registered to vote that one time doesn't mean that when you show up 15 years from now, everything may not be in the clear. Maybe it may not be, but you might want to vote a little bit more actively. It's just interesting, though, to me that in America, it just seems like we go out of our way to make it hard for people to vote than we do to make it easy for people to vote. I mean, you know, if I decide tomorrow that I don't want to drive my car for three years, I should still have my license and I do still have my license. We are way too concerned with voter fraud, even though it's in less than 1% of cases that it actually happens.

And I think that we have put so much in place to restrict it and to make sure that we diminish it. Again, this 1% that we never actually see happen anyway. When it comes to voter fraud, we continue to make more and more laws and regulations around it when it's actually not something that is actively happening. Agreed. And I think the bigger issue is, and I go back to what Robert is, is education. Folks need to understand that if you don't vote, you're going to get purged. That's the laws in 45 states.

And so we have more power with our vote on local levels than we do on a national level. And so if people could just get that understanding and get out and vote, like you said, even if it's a dog catcher or whatever it is, it's a big picture. I agree with you, but it's the big picture that we don't value and we don't support voting because it's easy to say people should get out to vote. But if you don't have control over your schedule, if you are just trying to make it and the only time the poll is open, you have to be at work and you're told if you don't show up, you're going to lose your job. And it's the reason why people don't vote.

It's not that they don't care all the time, which is which I think is our faulty assumption. If we had voting on holidays, if we had it on weekends, we would have more people voting. We go out of our way to make it hard for people to vote in. If we elevated the importance of races beyond the presidency. Because at the end of the day, a lot of people only show up to vote for the presidency because they see that as the top priority and the one that's mattering the most. When in all honesty, and I think that Robert said it earlier,

a lot of your daily life is more affected by what's happening at the state and local level than it is at the federal level anyway. And also, I think that this was a suggestion 20 years ago for the DNC, that any candidate for president needs to be putting as much money into voter education, voter registration, voter mobilization as they are into stupid commercials and tech ads. Because guess what?

It doesn't matter how many people you tell about Hunter Biden. If people aren't turning up to vote, it really doesn't matter. So we need to get the parties, the stakeholders invested in getting people to the polls on election day, early voting, and making sure that we monitor what these new voting regulations are so that we're not showing up on antiquated rules. If your jurisdiction used to have 21 days of early voting and now it's 10, we have to make sure that people know that. Absolutely. So we'll continue the discussion right after the break. That's youtube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. You want to support Roland Martin Unfiltered? Be sure to join our Bring the Funk fan club.

Every dollar that you give to us supports our daily digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. As Roland Martin Unfiltered, support the Roland Martin Unfiltered daily digital show by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Our goal is to get 20,000 of our fans contributing 50 bucks each for the whole year. You can make this possible. RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. A 25-year-old black woman in Milwaukee reportedly waited more than two hours in the emergency room and then left the hospital to find better care and died.

Unfortunately, she didn't find that care, it seems. Tashauna Ward went to Fartard Hospital with tightness of breath and chest pain, but her family said she was not under any monitoring while sitting in the waiting room. According to the medical report, hospital staff checked Ward's heartbeat and it appeared normal. The chest x-ray, however, showed an enlarged heart. She was already told about her enlarged heart when her baby died during pregnancy, the medical report stated. The family said she asked to stay in the waiting room after the tests. While she waited to be seen by a doctor, Ward posted on Facebook, I don't know what they can do about the emergency system at Fort Ord, but they damn sure need to do something.

I've been here since 430, something for shortness of breath and chest pains for them to just say it's two to six hours wait to see a doctor. Wow. Like that is really effing ridiculous. Studies show that black patients such as Ward aren't getting the same quality of healthcare as whites. Absolutely. According to a study by the National Center for Biotechnology Information, black patients wait for an average of 69 minutes in emergency rooms, while white patients wait 53 minutes.

You know, this isn't, unfortunately, it's not new news. No, I think anybody who's been to an emergency room at any point in life knows how this story goes, knows how it works. If it bleeds, it leads. So they do triage care in emergency rooms where if somebody's coming in for a gunshot, they go to the front of the line. If you say you have shortness of breath, if you say you're dizzy, something along those lines,

they put you into the waiting room. But chest pains is the power. It should be. But I think we have to understand that because African Americans are in large part an urban population, we live in major cities, not many of us live in Iowa or New Hampshire. We're mainly in Chicago, New York, D.C., Atlanta, places like that, where you're going to have the longest waiting areas. We have to go back to the concept of community doctors and community hospitals.

All of our medical care does not have to come from the big mega hospital downtown. There should be smaller regional and neighborhood branches of medical care does not have to come from the big mega hospital downtown. There should be smaller regional and neighborhood branches of medical care, independent physicians, family care doctors. We have to put a re-emphasis on that and not overstress the emergency care system, which was in theory what Obamacare was supposed to do when it was passed. And it just simply has not happened. This is more evidence of the brokenness of our health care system. I agree with Robert's last point. So I had a similar incident right before the holidays. Chest

pains, bad. I didn't go to the hospital. I went to a community clinic. I was immediately, there were like 30 people in that room. I was immediately brought back because it's seen as if you have any type of chest issue, you're going first. Right. They went through, they did the EKG, they took blood, they did everything. And

turns out I was having a panic attack, not a heart attack. It didn't have a heart problem. But that feels like a heart attack. I didn't know what it was, but I always read if something's going on right there, don't sit back and wait. So I do think that there's something to be said about, you know, the value that we need to start placing and the funding that we need to start placing at the community level. So you do have more of those clinics available because most of our people when they have an issue like that they're going to go to the hospital right period yeah and to robert's point because we are located in most urban communities more so than anything else um you are in that waiting room with sometimes 75 80 people more than that i've been to hospitals in chicago they are always packed and because you

know we have a lot of gunshot victims obviously that's going to take precedence over a ton of other things. But I also say that when it comes to hospitals, sadly, you know what else takes extreme precedent? What your insurance looks like. Exactly right. So depending on what that is, regardless of what you come in with, you may be in there longer than you probably should be. Yeah, yeah.

You know, and I think the problem, though, isn't just the weight. The reality is we need more black doctors, period. Because there's been a lot of studies that have looked at the level of discrimination, quite frankly, that black patients experience under medical care. So for example, a black child comes in with a broken arm, a white child comes in with a broken arm, a black child is less likely to even be given pain medicine. We can exhibit the very same symptoms, but we aren't treated as seriously. For example, if she was a white man in there with chest pains, he probably would have been seen quicker. You know, there have been studies that have shown the level of bias, even among doctors,

even among people who have taken the Hippocratic Oath that's shown to black patients. You know, to me, we need to think about how can we make sure that we have more doctors that look like us? My question here isn't the time, though. It is that they saw that she had an enlarged heart. At what point do you not treat someone where they come in with, that's a serious medical condition. Absolutely. No, I was just going to say chest pain is for sure. But I was going to add to it, it doesn't matter the age either.

Right. My mother-in-law, 83, was in Washington Hospital Center over the holidays and sat in an emergency room for over three hours. Over three hours. Oh, my God. She was dizzy, vomiting and that kind of thing, and she wound up being okay, but three hours in the waiting room. For an 83-year-old woman. And we also have to address the fact that being people in our community

still do not have health insurance. So often we wait until... But she had health insurance. So often we wait until... But you don't bring insurance. Not in that case, but often we wait until it is an emergency situation to get things checked out because we understand that, hey, an ambulance ride is going to cost me $4,000 and I ain't got it, so I'm going to drink some cold water and take a nap. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it is a big issue. We need to figure out how to help more people survive in this supposedly the richest country of the world. I want to thank our panel for being here today. Roland Martin will be back tomorrow with a conversation with Bruce Franks, who was the subject of the documentary St. Louis Superman, which was nominated for an Oscar. He'll also discuss Texas Southern University President Austin Lane, who was placed on administrative leave without explanation. We leave you with two interviews Roland did recently. First up, Matthew Cherry, who was

also nominated for an Oscar. And next, Bishop Kenneth Omar, pastor of Faithful Central Church in Los Angeles. Until next time, I'm Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeaver. Enjoy your evening. All right, folks, we're joined by, of course, Matthew Cherry, Vashti Harrison. First of all, Vashti, really? Black people know Vashti McKenzie, Bishop Vashti McKenzie. All these Vashtis we know. My mom is Trinidadian, and in Trinidad they say Vashti.

Oh, got it. See, they say Vashti. Exactly, they say Vashti. Now, when they hopped across that pond, it was like you come to America like bad exactly black people draw it out bad time so when you so we're all on the road how often do you hear bad stuff I hear lots of different things but yeah I probably call her three different versions myself so how does this book originate you know we were we I had this idea to do a animated short

film um you know of a dad uh trying to had this idea to do an animated short film, you know, of a dad trying to figure out how to do his daughter's hair for the first time. And the hair ends up having a mind of its own. Which is real life. Which is real life. I remember seeing all these viral videos of dads, you know, just like playing with their daughters, you know,

like playing with them or doing their hair. And you know, it was kind of like a double edged sword because obviously it was really great that these videos were going viral. But also I was like, you know, probably a reason why this is happening is because people aren't used to seeing it. Right. You know, I think there are a lot of misconceptions and stereotypes that we're not involved in our kids' lives,

let alone doing like these small menial domestic tasks with our kids. And, you know, I just thought it would be a great opportunity to kind of show that we are in our kids' lives and try to, you know, break some of these negative images that we have of ourselves. And then you got involved. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So he launched the Kickstarter campaign

and reached out to me to create some kind of art so that people would have an idea of what the movie was. Now, you had previously done children's books? Yeah, exactly. So I write and illustrate children's books, and I also do illustrations here and there for visual development work, and so that's what he was looking for,

and I think it was during the process of the Kickstarter campaign that people had suggested and had the idea that we should produce it as a picture book. Now, I'm not technically involved in the movie, but when the book got picked up by Coquilla Books, they reached out to me to ask me if I would consider illustrating the book. It didn't have to be Books, they reached out to me to ask me

if I would consider illustrating the book. It didn't have to be me, but it worked out that it was. So you had a crowd fund. Yeah. And how much did you raise? We raised roughly almost $300,000. It was like $283,000. And were you shocked by that?

Yeah, yeah. It was crazy, man. It was like the craziest thing I've ever been a part of. Now, the Kickstarter was for the whole project. The short film. Yeah, the was crazy, man. It was like the craziest thing I've ever been a part of. Now, the Kickstarter was for the whole project. The short film. Yeah, the short film. Yeah, well, one of the gifts that we offered was for a picture book. We just didn't know how we were going to figure it out.

And then three or four days into the campaign, Namrata, who is our kind of the editor, and she's like the head of the Coquilla Books, she reached out and was like, look, I'm a big fan of this. You know, we're about to start this new division. And I just think it would be really awesome if we could help make the book with you guys. And it was just like that, we had a book deal. Why do you think it resonated the way it did?

I think it was a lot of things. I think timing is really important. I think at that time, Into the Spider-Verse hadn't come out. And so there weren't a lot of images of black fathers and daughters or, you know, African-American characters in general and really any animated feature films. You know, they had Princess and the Frog and the Rihanna movie Home. But at the time, that was really it, maybe a couple of side characters. So, you know, my thing was just if we could do something that

centers on a black family, but actually have the hair be the thing that's magical and has a mind of its own, you know, we could kind of center it on that. And, you know, since then, obviously, Into the Spider-Verse has come out and all these great projects that center us. So, you know, it's really great to see.

And I think the more people that see stuff like this, and especially kids get to see themselves represented, the better. Vashti, it is interesting when you talk about black hair, how for non-black people, it's like this thing. I mean, my godmother talked about being in China, and folks just wanted just to touch her hair. And then you can ask any number of black women this whole deal oh my goodness can

touch your hair like no no you just can't touch my hair you think about the chris rock documentary uh uh was it was good hair i think you think you think about all of these conversations even just what just recently passed in california where they've uh uh where the bill is going through that law discrimination when it comes to hair And it is something that is certainly different and unique to folks of African descent. Yeah, you know, I illustrate for a living. I draw pictures. I don't have the biggest platform,

but I feel like with what I do, I can help normalize these things, normalize and create beauty and, you know, infuse a little bit of magic into the everyday life. So I make books for kids and I want to encourage them to know that there's nothing wrong with the hair that comes out of your head. You can wear it however you like and sometimes it can be magical because there are going

to be influences from outside that are going to challenge everything that we do. But if we can help them feel better about themselves from the ground up when they're that little, I think that's just one way to start. But I also think it's accepting what is normal. I think back to a number of years ago, Earl Graves, of course, founder of Black Enterprise, caused this huge stir when he made it

clear. He said, if you want to intern with Black Enterprise, you can't have dreads. His whole deal was this is the standard in corporate America. This is in terms of understanding that standard when it comes to dress, when it comes to suits and ties and look. And so we're

going to train you for that. We think about NBA it was really Allen Iverson in the corner sort of change change that you get of course the brothers in the ABA with a big huge half rolls dr. J but again it became this whole thing well no no no in order for us to in essence assimilate mm-hmm we have to change I think for African Americans we can go down that road where change your hair, change your dress, change your tone, change your walk, your talk,

all those things. Cam Newton going to the Carolina Panthers, owner saying, don't have a tattoo. And so, I think when you talk about normalizing it, it's saying, okay, that is normal. My wife and I raised six nieces. Hell, I've seen this constantly. Matter of fact, I was with my nieces a month ago.

It looked just like this. I mean, that's so, it's normal. And now what is normal for us now is going out into the world. And that has to be accepted as well, that you can wear your hair natural if you're a television anchor. Yes. You can wear your hat if you're an athlete as well. Yeah, I mean, remember Ricky Williams when he was, like,

one of the first NFL players to wear dreadlocks. And, you know, people were talking about him, you know, acting like he was Jamaican and all this other stuff. And now if you turn on NFL game. Didn't help you love weed the amount you did. I mean, let's just be real honest. True, true, true, true. But if you look at an NFL game now,

now you see, you know, 20, 30 players on the field will have locks at a certain time. So, you know, sometimes it just takes that one or two people to, you know, really just make this, not really a stand, but just be yourself. Change the image. Yeah, you change the image. We tried to do that a little bit with the father character, Stephen,

in that he's a young man. Yeah, I see the tattoos. Who has the physique of maybe a basketball player. He could be, you know, any kind of athlete. But we're just saying this is a dad. Or this is a brother with muscles. This is a dad that loves his daughter. And why can't a dad look like that?

Yeah. First of all, the only reason I say a brother with muscles is because it absolutely drives me crazy. Anybody who follows me on social media knows this. It drives me crazy when I'm traveling and I have my Texas A&M gear on. Or, uh, if I'm wearing Houston Astros, Houston Rockets, or Houston Texans. And the first assumption is I play ball.

Then the second assumption is, was I a coach? And they go through all this sort of stuff. It's kind of like, okay, when you gonna get to the graduate part? Like, when you gonna get around to... graduate part? Right, right, right. Like, when are you going to get around to it? Maybe I just simply went to school there. Right. And so I'm a huge advocate of, again,

trying to get white folks to understand, stop this perception that if you see somebody black who you think is muscular or could play ball, don't assume that and say, wait a a minute because if you see a white guy you don't automatically think he's a baller right and again those perceptions come in and I think I think a lot of people really as somebody look I've been in media since I was 14 right who really don't understand the power of images this is actually what you're doing with movies, that's actually America's

greatest export. Right. What we're seeing around the world. Right. Well, and that's the thing. Like, you know, images are so powerful

and, like, imagine growing up and never seeing yourself represented. You look at magazines, you look at TV shows, you look at movies, and you see people with lighter skin.

You see people with just straight, blonde hair, and you don't see yourself represented. You know, you come back home and you look people with lighter skin, you see people with just straight blonde hair, and you don't see yourself represented, you know, you come back home, and you look in the mirror, and, you know, that can make you feel less confident about yourself. And so all we're trying to do is just simply say, look, we see you, you know, we think this is a very specific niche,

but also it's universal in that, you know, these are things that parents do for their kids when they love them. You know, if there's something that they don't know how to do and a kid asks them to do it, you know, you're going to try to figure it out. You're going to go online and look up some videos. You're going to call a friend and try to figure it out. So that's really what the book is about, just showing what parents do for their kids when they don't know what to do

and they're trying to figure it out. Have you had to deal with folks who will reject your view of reality? I've never encountered that. You know, I wrote a book called Little Leaders, Bold Women, and Black History. So it's just a book filled with the stories of black women. And I've had a few people ask me, well, why would you make a book that is only about black women? And it's not a disacknowledgement of anything else in history. It's just saying,

like, I want to see these stories placed all together. So I find that people... Yeah, but first of all, if anybody actually understands history, they'll realize who is actually being left out. Exactly. I mean, again, I think if you ask the average person to name civil rights leaders, even historical civil rights leaders,

they will go... You'll hear the big names. Maybe, maybe they'll mention Mary McLeod Bethune. Maybe. Maybe they'll mention Dorothy Hite. You can forget Septima Clark. Maybe they'll mention Fann Lou Hamer. Not Constance Baker Motley.

Not Ella Baker or Diane Nash. You know those names. Because, frankly, it's largely been black men. Left out of the mainstream, exactly. But, so, I've found that, you know, there are a few questions here and there, but mostly people are just excited. I think we're not trying to replace any part of the story.

We're just adding more to the tapestry. So, in the children's, you know, section of the bookstore... I'm just messing with you. In the children's part of the bookstore, there's, you know, I saw a great book children's part of the bookstore there's you know I saw a great book today about a white father and his daughter and it's like it's a beautiful lovely story and our book could sit right next to that just another reflection of a different reality so I find that people are being are very just supportive of it maybe it's because we're

making children's content and it's just there to be good and helpful for the world but it's a nicer place to be and I'm happy to do it well I think I think what it also does first of all I think I think you are playing it down so it's actually way bigger than that because what is happening now is and let's just cut to the chase America doesn't understand anything unless money is attached and let's just cut to the chase, America doesn't understand anything unless money is attached. And we were in a meeting with the National Association of Black Journalists, we were in a meeting with ABC News. And we were meeting with all these different networks about their senior leadership team. And we were meeting with him, talking about the black executives,

or lack thereof, and at one point, I said, well, this is the company that made Black Panther, that made more than a billion dollars. And folks sort of looked at me in the room, and I said it for a reason, because America responds to money. Right. And what is happening now is you now

have a generation of black folks who will readily say I'm rejecting that. In fact, I grew up seeing the children's book and the white father and the white mother. No, no, no.

Y'all got to put some other stuff up here. And it is forcing bookstores. is forcing publishers is forcing networks it's forcing to understand America's indeed changing and that if you do not better reflect this changing America another company will right and you're gonna lose out mm-hmm yeah I mean and that's a great thing about the company that we're with Coquila Books. You know, Namrata, she is just really focused. It's a division of Penguin Random House,

and it just focuses specifically on, you know, POC authors and people telling their stories. So our book came out on Tuesday. There was another book that came out called My Papi Has a Motorcycle that speaks to, you know, the Mexican-American experience. And, you know, there's speaks to, you know, the Mexican-American experience. And, you know, there's a book coming out later about the Filipino-American experience.

And so, you know, these are all just, like, really these underserved communities, and it's such a niche, and we're just so excited to be a part of this family and to be the first book that comes out under that division. How much is the book? What is that? How much is it?

How much is it? I believe at $16.99 in stores and, like like $10.99 if you get it on Kindle. They're looking like, I don't know. No, no. I mean, I just bought a book. I just looked at it. I think it's different in different stores. Yeah.

We're not sure. Okay. All right, again, folks, the book is called Hair Love. Yes. Matthew Cherry, illustrated by Vashti Harrison. Check it out and get it today we appreciate it thanks a lot thank you Bishop Kenneth Omar glad to have you glad to see you absolutely absolutely seeing you since the election yes indeed yes indeed we had a interesting time you

know what I still have not seen the full debate. People keep hitting me up saying they only put like a clip and I'm trying. Who do I reach to get it? I will find out. Right. Because people keep telling me, man, I heard y'all got into it and I would love to be able to share. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's talk first about where we are with the black church. But not just the black church, but really what is happening on how here we are in 2019 and the total game has changed. Right. At one point, y'all bought the farm in Englewood.

You have massive edifices but the reality is I'm more and more pastors are going to smaller churches smaller locations multiple locations so it used to be the people came to the church now the church is really going to where the people are exactly which which is a significant shift but a necessary shift because I think with all of the social media and clicking and Facebooking and Instagram, it's interesting because we're talking more, but we're communicating less. We have less relationships, although we have more talk. Right.

And so I think there's an interesting desire for, and we're finding out in our own church, more of a desire for community we're finding out in our own church and more of a desire for community for relationships you know and and the I think I think that the the day of the at least the mega buildings right and and I have several friends who when the cameras are not rolling say I'd never do it again if I had another oh no I've actually talked to several past yeah who um there's i would not do this today because now the pressure is you're trying to feel 3 500 4 000 5 000 10 000 seats well you know if you've got and i have friends like this if you've got six seven eight nine ten thousand seats and you've got two thousand two thousand people is a lot of people.

Right. But if you've got 8,000 empty seats, that's a whole other situation. But also I think that, and this is the thing that I think for, I mean, as someone who was born and raised Catholic, left the Catholic church when I was around 24, 25, and I've attended Baptist churches, Methodist churches, non-denominational churches. When you talk about community, I really believe that that's the one thing that a lot of churches are not focusing on,

community slash family. I was in the session, they were talking about size doesn't matter, something along those lines. And as I was listening to it, this is what I didn't hear someone actually say. I didn't hear them. They kept talking about members. But Ralph Douglas West, who was my pastor in Houston, he said, no, no, no. I focus on families. He said, if you focus on members, you can have people who are members and they're transient. He said, well, you want to attract families.

And that's, I think, what also community and fellowship comes in. Very significant. And it's interesting because nowadays, even in church business, finance, that kind of thing, back in the day, they'd say how many members you have. Now they want to know either how many families, giving units, or how many people show up. I mean, I know several guys who are still using numbers. Of course, most preachers count by twos. That's another conversation. But I have friends who are using numbers that on paper, you i know for the one one time um we we were in the form as a matter of

fact and uh somebody a reporter someone asked about a mailing list and my office sent out our database 22 000 people well i've never had 22 000 members in my my life. Right. But those are names. And like Ralph said, those people may be there, they may not be there. So I think that the unit that counts is the individual who shows up and the family. And more and more, there's a need for, and there's being, there's a shift for how do we build, actually, how do we rebuild our families, particularly the black family? And I think that the day of the black family is going to come back. I think it's coming, man. I think there are men, I think there are women, I think there are churches who are saying that's where the, that's the gold mine, that that's where the

future lies. And certainly I get it with the millennials and the age thing, but more than the age issue, it's the unit issue and the unit of the family and the desire and the need, the necessary need to put the focus there. And that's how you're going to change the family and and the desire and the need the necessary need to put the focus there and that's how you're going to change the community and change the neighborhood how have you tried or how have you shifted or have you shifted your preaching or teaching based upon this being a different generational emphasis because previous generations it was you went to church you likely went to bible study it did not matter that's how you were raised now we're in a total total transient world where folks say i don't have to go on sunday because the reality is my i got 300

sermons on my ipod right there um i can literally pick up my uh computer and i i can watch a church service at any time i want at any moment i want so i don't have to do that thing that's good which is interesting because in a sense that is that is anti-community or counter community in other words i i can do that in my home and i have members who do it who do that at their homes on their computer or whatever uh and they don't come to the to the uh to the building uh i i have a friend i have a friend who's online online campus i have a friend who's online campus raises more money than they do the people who come i have a friend who raises a hundred thousand dollars a week from

people who don't even step foot in that building which is interesting because on the other on one hand you're saying people want community on the other hand they're watching watching your program eating drinking coffee in their pajamas but okay so let's do let's deal with that so if the church is advancing this idea of community what that also now means is that preachers border trustees church leaders are now going to have to understand the technology community so how do I create community and so in essence if you have those if those folks on there so you have your Facebook you have your YouTube you have your periscope you have, you have all these different social media.

And it was a Bible app. All of a sudden, I started getting these friends requests on the Bible app. I'm like, well, hold up. I ain't downloaded the Bible app. I said, I got friends requests over here. But the reality is that's all the people who have the app. That's a community so the challenge now is okay how do churches now think like technology companies to build communities online and

that's what we have to learn that's where that's part of the shift we need to make and and I think to ignore that is to ignore the possibility of expanding the kingdom and reach I taught a seminar on preaching like two months ago. And in that seminar, I was saying to the young theologues, the young preachers, pulpitiers, I said, you know, I am on my fifth preaching style. I was introduced in Chicago as an OG. So I guess I'm one of the old dogs now, you know, but I've shifted. I i've shifted i'm on my fifth style now i mean the things that that the people guys who were my mentors you know spalling and holland it still works in some places but but the but the group that i'm trying to reach and the group that

i'm called to reach it's a different approach number one it's a different content it's a different approach it's a different content right how i might have to ask myself how portable is what i'm saying right how transferable is what i'm saying in this building going to help that person who who who joins us in worship every sunday from london how am i going to help that person what am i doing here which means now there's got to be a different focus because the original focus was come come come come to the building come here my choir come hear my preacher come come come to the building which is interesting because jesus never said come he said he said go right and that's the piece where i remember um there were people who i was one of the early adopters to social media

and all the number of people who what are you doing uh tweeting in church and I said I remember the time so I probably may have had 300 000 followers now I've got about 520 plus thousand just on Twitter wow I got a million on Facebook and I said do you realize that when I send one tweet, I said, at that time, I said, it was going to more than a million people. I said, I don't know who's watching social media in that tweet. I said, secondly, I said, I take copious notes or sermons. I said, please tell me what's the difference between me writing my notes and literally tweeting a, sending out a stream of tweets, which is the exact same as writing my notes. I love it. It's the same.

And your notes are going further than that guy in that building. And in fact, what I used to, I used to actually, I would type my notes in my notes section and then as soon as church was over, I would immediately upload the whole sermon notes to my blog, which would then go out. Well, then I said, well, you know what, people are not necessarily going to read just the whole blog, so I just say, I'm just going to start just tweeting. And these people were getting all upset. And in fact, I was in a church and the pastor got upset i had to check him i'm like do you understand that all these folks were seeing it

now you bring in live streaming right so now i can then say if you want to watch the sermon go here josephine baker's josephine baker's uh signature song was The times they are a-changing. And then there's a passage in Scripture that talks about a tribe in Israel. And the most significant thing we know about that tribe is they had an understanding of the times. And if we, church, pastors, leaders, whatever, if we don't understand that these times are a-changing, this train will have left us.

The people that we could help will never reach because we don't know how to communicate that we're not right we we we don't know how to have a message that goes beyond these four walls and and and if we don't again we're gonna die on the vine and and and some of the some of the uh uh research etc is saying one of two things they're saying uh church attendance is going down right others are saying it's the greatest time for the church ever the church has the greatest opportunity but it's not going to have the opportunity if they still operate the way it did down in mississippi and no no problem right no no right but in terms of in in rural areas down home it's a culture that has to change, man. And that culture inside the church must change in order to reach the culture outside the church.

How do you deal with people who say, okay, you said you're in a fifth preaching style. How do you deal with people who say, I need you to change what you talk about because you have you have people who are single who don't want to hear messages about shacking up right you've got people who are gay and lesbian who do not want to hear a certain passage of the bible you got people who say that those passages are wrong you got people who say oh no women should be able to preach and teach and so how do you ensure that how the world defines how the world views things how do you ensure that no no this is what has to be taught inside not the world changes the church but the church changes the world how do you grapple with

that you know jesus jesus said if i be lifted up i'll draw if i if if you lift i'll draw so the church lives in this tension between lifting and drawing and and it and it will often have to make a choice it will have to make a choice between it will lean too far to the lifting, the orthodoxy, the non-negotiable, whatever, on this side, to the point where it's not attracting anybody. And the church is going to die, and the message is going to die, etc. On the other hand, if we flip way to the other side, then at some point, we're going to be asking, well, what are we going to say? So I think we have to live in that tension I think I think the reality of where scripture is and what scripture says It's like the message cannot change. But how do you change the myth? How do you present that? How do I I mean I?

This coming Sunday. I'm doing a thing on David and I'm talking about how this great man was an adulterer was a liar you know um what does god do with people who are adulterous whatever other term you want to use um so i can't i can't talk this judgment without talking this grace right i better get to the grace or are we all out of here you know but so it's the it's the tension that I live in of not either or, but both and. And that's tough sometimes. It's a tough call sometimes, man. But it will always put me in that place.

Now, which way am I going to lean? This way or am I going to stay in the middle and try to do both? And sometimes you'll hit it and sometimes you'll miss it. Absolutely. Well, all the folks who watch do understand that when I'm in Los Angeles and I get there in time, that's the church I will drop by because one, it also helps. They close to the airport. Right in the airport. So when it's like I can land, it's like, oh, no, I'm not far at all from getting there in time.

But you know what? And this is not a pat on the back, but it is, though. Your perspective of media, of journalism, et cetera, you walk that line, man. And it's a gift. It's a gift. And you and I, I don't, because I'm on the outside. You know, I know other journalists, etc., who are unapologetically on one side or the other, and I get that. But you have a unique gift of being the voice of Black America, not monolithically, but as complex as it is, as diverse as it is.

And you're fair. You're fair, man. You're fair, man. I appreciate it. Well, always good chatting with you.

I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Stay on the wall. All right. God bless you. This is an iHeart podcast