#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 12.13 RMU: Dems send Trump impeachment to full house; Tom Joyner's last day

Episode Date: December 22, 2019

12.13.19 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Further impeachment hearings for Trump, CAWP - Florida Sheriff encourages officers to act like a white supremacist, and a tribute to the legacy of everyone's favorite morning radio host Tom Joyner. #RolandMartinUnfiltered partner: 420 Real Estate, LLC To invest in 420 Real Estate’s legal Hemp-CBD Crowdfunding Campaign go to http://marijuanastock.org Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad listen to absolute season one taser incorporated on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts that's fine today is friday december 13, 2019. Roland Martin broadcasting. Roland Martin unfiltered from Dallas, where tomorrow I will be having a conversation with Spike Lee at the Windspear Opera House in downtown Dallas.

On today's show, the House advances impeachment against Donald Trump and now goes to the full House, but they're likely to vote to impeach him next Wednesday. We'll break it down with our panel. Also, a woman in Arkansas, 72 years old, blind. The parole board five separate times has said release this woman from prison and the Arkansas governor has refused to do so. What in the hell is happening in Arkansas where there's no compassion? And this woman was convicted for accidentally killing her husband. Also on today's show, folks, another crazy-ass white person, this time a cop in Florida.

Doesn't it seem it's always Florida? Also, folks, today was the final day after 25 years of the Tom Joyner Morning Show. I, of course, was on that show for the last 11 years. We'll talk about the impact of Tom Joyner, Sybil Wilkes, and the whole crew right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. It's time to bring the funk. Let's go.

Peace. Whatever it is, he's got the spook, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling. Best belief he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's Uncle Roro, y'all. It's rolling, Martin.

Rolling with rolling now. Yeah, yeah It's Roland Martin Yeah, yeah Rolling with Roland now Yeah, yeah He's bunk, he's fresh, he's real the best You know he's Roland Martin Now Martin Martin After more than 14 hours last night of conversation, discussion that turned angry at times, the House Judiciary Committee came back this morning and voted on two articles of impeachment against Donald Trump. This is how the vote took place.

The Judiciary Committee will come to order a quorum being present. Having agreed yesterday to the amendment in the nature of a substitute on articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump, the pending business is reporting the resolution favorably to the House. Reporting quorum being present, the question is now in the motion to report the resolution H. Res. 755 as amended favorably to the House. Pursuant to clause 5 of House Rule 16, because the resolution contains two distinct propositions, we will divide the question between the two articles. The question now is on article 1 of the resolution impeaching President Donald J Trump for abusing his powers. The clerk will call the roll. Has every member voted who

wishes to vote? Mr. Chairman may I ask how I'm recorded? How is the gentleman recorded? Mr. Gohmert you're recorded as no. Yeah I want to make sure. The clerk will report. Mr. Chairman, there are 23 ayes and 17 noes. The article is agreed to. The question now is on Article 2 of the resolution, impeaching President Donald J. Trump for obstructing Congress. The clerk will call the roll. Is there every member of the committee who wishes to vote voted? The clerk will report.

Mr. Chairman, there are 23 ayes and 17 noes. The article is agreed to. The resolution is amended as ordered reported favorably to the House. Members will have two days to submit views. The resolution will be reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute. Without objection, staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes. Without objection, the committee is adjourned. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, pursuing my purpose, does the gentleman seek recognition? Pursuant to clause 2L of rule 11, I give notice of intent to file dissenting these. Notice is heard. Without objection, the committee is adjourned. Now, the impeachment of Donald Trump goes to the full House, where Democrats are likely to take it up on Wednesday.

Let's go to our panel right now. They're in Washington, D.C. Joining me is Pam Keith. Of course, she is a former political candidate out of Florida. Erica Savage Wilson, host of Savage Politics Podcast, and also Julian Boykin, founder, chairman, young Republicans of Southern Maryland. Pam, I want to start with you.

This obviously was a, as Congressman Hocking Jeffries tweeted, was a sobering day. There are those people out there who will say that Democrats, this is what they always wanted to do. They wanted to, of course, impeach Donald Trump. But the reality is this is only the fourth time you've had Congress take up the impeachment of a president. And Republicans, of course, will have been saying how this is unnecessary and how partisan it is. But it says a whole lot about the actions of Donald Trump where Democrats had no choice but to go this route when folks like Speaker Nancy Pelosi have been trying to avoid this very day since he was elected. Roland, I couldn't agree with you more. And there's two points that I want to make here.

First of all, I was one of those activists on social media begging the Democrats to impeach Donald Trump after the Mueller report on all of the information contained therein. And I was screeching at Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff and others saying, hey, what he did then was impeachable. And the Democrats are coming back at me and saying, oh, it's not enough. It's not severe enough. You know, we just, I don't know. The people aren't with us.

It's risky. And I said that you uphold the law then. So there's absolutely no question that Nancy Pelosi did not want to do this. But just for argument's sake, let's just say that every Democrat in America wanted to impeach Donald Trump from day one. So what? We wouldn't have been able to do it if he didn't hand us on silver platter crimes that are impeachable. I assure you, every Republican wanted to impeach Barack Obama the day he was sworn in. It rocked them to their feet. If you recall, Boehner and Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell had

a meeting right after and said their goal was to make him a one-term president they wanted to impeach him to the difference between Obama and Donald Trump is Obama didn't oblige them Donald Trump obliged us because what he did was take that power that he had in the presidency and use it to try to manipulate a future election and he would have gotten away with that. But for one person, the whistleblower who came forward and said, you know what? We don't do this in America. That's banana republic corruption. We don't do that. In our country, we allow our elections to be free and fair and unmolested by foreign nations. And because of that whistleblower, we got the inner workings of what this man was trying to do. He was so intimidated by the presence of Joe Biden in the

election that he tried to jump ahead of the curve and say, I'm going to put a fog of suspicion around him. Well, guess what? He got caught red-handed, and that's why he's being impeached. Not because Democrats wanted to, I assure you half of them didn't. But because he did crime. That's why. Erica Savage, here's the thing that I think we have to understand. Nancy Pelosi once said Donald Trump is going to impeach himself. And in essence, even after the Mueller report,

Donald Trump was emboldened to continue to do what he normally does, and that's really what we're dealing with here. His actions, he can try to call it a perfect call. He can try to say, Republicans can say, he was really so worried about corruption. No, he was trying to get dirt on Joe Biden. Absolutely. And then the details, the memo that we all received, the American public on July 25th,

underscored just that. And here's the bottom line. I do not believe that we have an electorate that is so dumbed down that we do not understand. To what Pam's point is that he was literally caught red-handed, that even taking out quid pro quo on the phone call, he is heard saying, and this has been something that's been substantiated by Mike Pence's own aide, Jennifer Williams,

as having an inappropriate phone call where Congress has already said, listen, the 400 mil is yours. Donald Trump jumps in front of that 400 million that he had no business doing money that was appropriated for Ukraine's military defense because Russia came in in 2014 and just annexed Crimea. And with their new president, President Zelensky, he gets in front of that money and he says, but listen, so you're going to get the money that's already supposed to be hitting your direct deposit if you do this.

Listen, there is a way with which we do that, and it is called opposition research, and that is within the United States. What is absolutely wrong, what is criminal, and what he is now being impeached for through the House is that he absolutely petitioned a foreign government to investigate a political opponent. That is completely out of order, no matter what side of the aisle a person sits on. And so for what this is for the American people, this is showing that a person who absolutely has no allegiance to the Constitution, who has no allegiance to the American people that he serves, to say that there

is a check on this presidency and whether or not that he likes it, there will be a stain on his record, and that is the letter of impeachment. Julian, look, for Republicans to suggest that there was no quid pro quo, here's the problem. The Trump people admitted it. Mike Mulvaney went before the cameras and said, yes, there was a quid pro quo. Now, he tried to come back and walk it back, but it didn't work. Trump even says, oh, I blew this whole thing up by releasing the transcript. No, you didn't. It actually confirmed what you actually did. And this man, Donald Trump, tried to get a foreign country to impact the next election. I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat, that simply cannot be allowed to happen in a country where you are governed by the Constitution.

I hear what you're saying, but this is a sham. This is a waste of time. This is a waste of taxpayers' dollars. So the House has brought it to a vote. Now it's going to move forward. Then it goes before the Senate. How is it a sham? It's a waste of taxpayers' time. It's a waste of taxpayers' time. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's a sham to me because the Democrats don't have any viable candidates.

They don't have anybody worth that can beat President Trump. Nancy Pelosi knows that. So the only thing left to do is to bring an impeachment to tarnish the president's record. So therefore, you're going to do everything you can to make the president look bad, bring up the impeachment. So let's go ahead. Let's do what you want to do. Julian, Julian, Julian. First of all, here's the piece.

What happens in terms of who runs against Trump next year is irrelevant to this particular issue here. I will ask you, based upon what you have read, what you have heard, did Donald Trump, in your estimation, seek a foreign entity help in investigating a political rival? Yes or no? No. Why does he need help? I'm just saying, why does he need help? We're talking about Joe Biden.

No, no, no, no, no. Really? No, no, no, no, no. This is the best the Democrats can do. We're talking about Joe Biden. No, No, no, no. This is the best Democrats can do. We talking about Joe Biden. No, no, no. Jillian, Jillian, I'm asking you again. Are you telling me that you actually

looked at the transcript and you heard the testimony of Trump appointees who all said that there was indeed a quid pro quo, that it was very clear that they were to investigate Joe Biden. Are you saying to me you don't believe any of them? No.

Oh, Jesus. No. And we have to go back again to Mike Pence's own aide who testified about the call. And then we have to go through the bevy of not only scholars, but then constitutional lawyers. We have to go back to an ambassador who paid into his election campaign to the tune of $1 million, who then lays out without any type of fear of reprimand and goes back, gets back on a plane,

go from IAD back to Brussels to return to his post. And as we understand it, he's still serving. And that would be Ambassador Gordon Sondland, that all of these people did not come together. A confluence of people did not come together that sit on different sides of the aisle to come to the very same conclusion that what Donald John Trump did was not only inappropriate, but he actually did something that is in our constitutional and that is punishable. And by this way, that is punishable with impeachment. And so I think that even though we are moving into an election season, we are in election season, but 2020 is upon us. That is very much so important to take out 2020 and understand that this is an elected that has an oath not only to the Constitution, but to the people of the United States.

So whether or not that person is a Republican, an independent, or a Democrat, it does not take away from what he did. What he did not only was against the Constitution, but he has put our very well safety um in danger as well um there is a part of our foreign policy that has definitely um been now up for sale so to speak and so now there's conversation around well who is it that can now or who is it that has tapped into uh what we believe to be um the next uh general election that we have coming up? Do we have threats that could be coming from North Korea? Do we have threats that could be coming in from Saudi Arabia?

What other countries are looking to advance their policy that now see an entrance since dum-dum has made it so very plain that this is now something that can be held into account for, but for the fact that Democrats are seeking to probably... are seeking to gain the right candidate to run for president. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. And... This is... Pam, I'm trying to understand. I'm just trying to... This is... I mean...

What Julian just said is, again, to me, what I don't get. Right. Look, if you asked me, if you asked me, did Bill Clinton lie under oath about sex, I would say yes. That has nothing to do with a D or R, blue or red, liberal or conservative. It's simply what is right before you. I would disagree.

Hold on one second. Because what he did, they put it out to a vote and some people don't consider that as sex. One second. No, no, no. Allow me to finish my point. Go ahead. If you... And the question goes to Pam. If you then if, if, and I was, and the question goes to Pam.

If you then say, Pam, that I don't believe that he should impeach for that, that's different. But to deny what actually happened happened, that to me makes no sense. Pam, go ahead. Right. I mean, I think what you're looking at, Roland, is this sort of hermetically sealed bubble of logic.

You start from the position that you absolutely do not believe anybody willing to say something negative about Donald Trump. If they're willing to say something negative about him, then you must ignore them. And then you have this parade of people who come and tell the truth about what happened. People who were appointed by him, worked in his administration, even people who helped him get in office like Gordon Sondland.

And then you say, I get to ignore all of that evidence because they're willing to present it. That's like a closed-in bubble. We call that an intellectual tautology. It circles in on itself. If I don't have to believe anybody is willing to say something negative about Donald Trump, then I get to believe that there's no negative information about Donald Trump. You cut yourself off from the willingness to engage the information.

And therefore, you conclude there's no information. That is the most intellectually dishonest approach to any problem. And I assure you, there is not a black man on this planet, including Barack Obama, who could walk around with immunity from engagement of what he's actually done because they're just not going to pay attention to anything anybody has to say that they don't like. That is not only intellectually dishonest. It's intellectually crippled. It's a sign of a weak intellect.

And we don't have to follow people who aren't willing to engage information. So, Julian, again, you can disagree with the impeachment, but to say that... So, are you telling me that all those folks lied? Fiona Hill, Sondland, the ambassador, everybody lied.

I'm pretty sure there's some truth to it, but I'm not going to sit here and say I believe everything that the president said against the president. Hold up. Really? The whole purpose of this impeachment is to bring forth charges against the president to show that the president has committed crimes that are impeachable, correct?

So that's the whole purpose of this. No, no, no. Am I right or wrong? The whole point of the impeachment inquiry was to bring forth witnesses who will speak to the actions of Donald Trump as related to him seeking a foreign entity to investigate a political rival. That was the purpose of it. That's what happened. So is the purpose of this is to make sure that President Trump doesn't get reelected in 2020? Or is it just to tarnish his record? No, no. No, the purpose of it is to actually follow the Constitution. And that is when an individual commits high crimes and misdemeanors, that is what their goal is.

Okay, so if all of this happens, if everything that you say happens, come 2020 election, if the president is reelected, was it worth it or what? Which one is it? Is it important to say, hey, the president needs to be impeached? But he can still win. What happens? He gets reelected, then what? No, no, no to say, hey, the president needs to be impeached? But he can still win. What happens? He gets re-elected, then what? This is what I'm going to read, and I want you to understand. This is what Justin Amash, of course, longtime Republican, who's now independent, this is what he said. What did the framers mean by high crimes and misdemeanors? High denotes high office. describing statutory misdeeds, but rather, quote, those offenses which proceed from the misconduct

of public men, or in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are a, this is Alexander Hamilton writing in the Federalist number 65 paper, quote, they are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself so it doesn't matter if Trump runs so for instance if Trump gets impeached next week's by the house and then it goes to the Senate for the trial and then he is found not guilty there, he can run next year and he can win. But it does not matter. His actions were impeachable actions. And that's the point.

It's in for this very reason that when a president does something that is against the public trust, there is a mechanism that Congress has to hold said person accountable. This is the only mechanism in the Constitution, Julian, that allows for Congress to hold the president accountable. That's in the Constitution, Julian, that allows for Congress to hold the president accountable. That's in the Constitution. Again, this is a waste of time. Do you now get it? Oh, I get it. I get it, but it's a waste of time. You already have had

one out of the 31 Democrats that came forward and said, this is a waste of time. So, again, the Democrats are going to do whatever they can to try to make the American people and the registered voters say, hey, do not vote for this president come 2020. At the end of the day, people are going to vote however they want to vote. So you can bring forth whatever charges you want to bring. Let me finish.

You can bring whatever charges you want to bring. At the end of the day, it's not going to stop people from voting how they want to bring, let me finish, you can bring whatever charges you want to bring, at the end of the day, it's not going to stop people from voting how they want to vote. So if the purpose of this is to bring the president forth on impeachment charges and say, hey, this president has been impeached, but yet and still, he gets reelected,

was it worth it? Well, yeah, it is because one has... One has nothing to do with it. Go ahead. I just want to say, I mean, to underscore the point that I do not believe that the entire electorate is dumbed down enough to be able to segregate both. So here is a person that, be it like him or not, is being held into account for committing abuses, two very narrow abuses that stem from a phone call. So that is abuse of power.

That $400 million was not his to give. That was appropriated through Congress. And then the second was his obstruction of Congress, which is when he said to senior officials, no, don't go and testify. That is what Donald John Trump is being held to account for. And honestly, if those things are not something that should be brought forth

in the manner with which they've been brought forth, which has been very solid, it has been several hours, several days, several weeks of testimony, then what are we to do behind checks and balances? This is not about like or dislike. This is about Donald John Trump being held into account. No one is bringing the Mueller report was not included in this.

It was very, very narrow. This is specifically about the July 25th phone call that he made where there were dozens of people that were listening. And as Pam has eloquently broken out, there was one person who is the whistleblower who said there's something that's not right about this call and brought it to the appropriate attention of the appropriate officials. And that is why we are here today, because Donald John Trump was caught red-handed. Period. And, Roland, I think it really...

Pam? I think it's really important to make this point. This concept that just because he might get off in a partisan vote in the Senate, we shouldn't bother. It's a waste of time. First of all, I'm a lawyer, and I know for a fact that we don't only prosecute people when we're guaranteed to get a conviction. We prosecute because that's what you do when crime is committed. Second of all, and this is the really important thing, the consequence of not

impeaching Donald Trump is sending the message in posterity that what he did was okay, which it is THE CONSEQUENCE OF NOT IMPEACHING DONALD TRUMP IS SENDING THE MESSAGE IN POSTERITY THAT WHAT HE DID WAS OKAY, WHICH IT IS NOT. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF HOW IT MIGHT WORK TO DONALD TRUMP'S DISADVANTAGE. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT RUSSIA WANTED SOMETHING IN ALL OF THIS. YES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UKRAINE, BUT REALLY ALL OF THIS WAS DRIVEN BY RUSSIA. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? IF THE POLLS SHOW THAT JOE BIDEN WOULD BEAT DONALD TRUMP IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, WHICH CURRENTLY EVERY POLL IN AMERICA IS SHOWING, THAT'S all of this was driven by Russia. But you know what? If the polls show that Joe Biden would beat Donald Trump in the general

election, which currently every poll in America is showing, then Joe Biden could cut a deal with Russia and say, hey, Russia, give me all the dirt on Donald Trump and I'll lift those sanctions on you. I assure you, the Republicans wouldn't find that kosher.

No, they'd have a real problem with that. And if I was Vladimir Putin, I would definitely be looking to cut a deal with Joe Biden. Why not? He's definitely smarter, more decent, and more respected by his own population than Donald Trump is. Donald Trump is a lame duck.

He's polling at highest in the 40s and in most places in the 30s. So if I'm Vlad, I'm thinking, He's pulling at highest in the 40s and in most places in the 30s. So if I'm Vlad, I'm thinking what athlete do I want to go to the football game with? I'm going to say Joe Biden. So if Joe Biden told Vlad that he would lift sanctions if Vlad gave him all the dirt on Donald Trump, do you think that'd be cool? I highly doubt that the Republicans do.

And let me tell you one last thing. There's a whole lot more dirt on Trump than there ever was on Biden. So if it is all about trolling for dirt in foreign lands, I'd be real worried if I was in Trump land. Absolutely. They've got a foul since 1977. It's 1977.

And to Pam's point, Vladimir Putin is not allegiant to anyone. He is trying to muscle to get back into the GA. And so, honestly, this could go either way. So, again, this is not about Donald, whether or not he can be re-elected in

2020. This is, again, about holding him accountable. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we'll see what... Well, again, the House will take their action next week. Then it moves on to the Senate, where they likely holding him accountable absolutely absolutely well we'll see what well again the house will take their action next week then it moves on to the Senate where they likely will take this up after the first of the year got to go to a break folks we come back talk about this strange story out of Arkansas 72 year old woman blind killed her husband the parole board in Arkansas five

separate times has said release her but the governor won't do it. What the hell? We'll discuss next. Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there? Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's youtube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. All right, folks, as the marijuana momentum continues, the folks at MarijuanaStock.org are halfway towards their funding goal for their crowdfunding campaign. The goal is very simple, and that is to give you an opportunity to invest in an opportunity to invest in a company that's acquiring land that's now legal to grow hemp.

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That's marijuana-stock.org. Get in the game and get in the game now. All right, folks, let's talk about this story out of Arkansas. In 1985, Willie May Harris shot her husband, Clyde Harris, by mistake. Prosecutors said that she intentionally pulled the trigger at point blank range and they called it cold blooded murder. Trial lasted one day. And in his closing argument, the prosecutor called Clyde's death nothing but coldblooded murder. The trial lasted one day, and in his closing argument, the prosecutor called Clyde's death nothing but cold-blooded murder. The one-day trial concluded with Harris being convicted of first-degree murder

and receiving a life sentence. Now, Harris is 72 years old, blind, and is still in prison. Yet what's crazy about this is the parole board in Arkansas, five separate occasions, has said release her from prison. But the governor refuses to do so. Joining us right now with details about the case is Lauren Gill. She's a reporter for The Appeal, which has been covering this case. And so, Lauren, this is one of those things that makes no sense.

A parole board is there to obviously look at all of these facts behind the case. They voted five times to saycy in 1998, and the governors, you know, they either denied her application or they made no decision, which meant that she could just apply again. But the way it works in Arkansas is that if you're applying for a clemency, you go through the parole board, you submit a clemency application, and then the parole board considers that and makes a recommendation to the governor. In 2015, her application was submitted, and it said that it had merit, and she had been recommended, and Governor Asa Hutchinson, who is the governor now, went ahead and denied it.

And Governor Huckabee also denied it, which meant that she had to wait four more years under Arkansas law to apply again. So she applied again in 2018. parole board, which is now filled with Governor Hutchinson appointees, said that her application had no merit because there was a gun involved and that the sentence was not excessive and someone was killed. It didn't really take into account like the previous parole boards had done that she was a victim of domestic violence. So right now, her clemency application is sitting on Governor Asa Hutchinson's desk and he has a final decision to either make no decision, which meant that she

could apply for clemency in one year, or he could grant her clemency and free her after 34 years in prison, or he could deny her for a second time, which would mean that she would have to wait four more years and she would be 76 years old by the time that she could apply for clemency once again. She's been in prison 34 years. Not only that, according to your story, that her defense team did not present evidence that they could have easily

accessed that show the physical abuse that she received from her husband. Right. So she had been married to Clyde for over 10 years. They had two daughters together. There were several instances that were documented in which she had to go to the hospital. There was one where her eardrum was ruptured. Her daughter broke her hand with a pipe. But of course, no one really was going to the hospital. She was telling people that she was a victim of domestic abuse. But, you know, her daughter, Sylvia, who was 14 over the time, said that she offered to get on the stand and testify that she had witnessed her father abuse her mother. And the lawyer told her that she was too young to go ahead and do that.

And ultimately, he didn't put anyone on the stand that could testify to the abuse that she suffered, even people that could go ahead and do that. So Ms. Harris was the only person who testified in her own defense, and she testified that it was a tragic accident. So essentially, she really had no real defense that was put up by her attorneys. Now, so what is the move of the governor? What can he do? And what happens if he denies her application? How much longer must she wait to apply again? Yeah, so as I said, he could make three decisions.

He could make no decisions, so she could apply again in one year. He could also deny her application, which under Arkansas law means that she would have to wait four more years and be 76 years old at that time. Or he could go ahead and make the final decision, which would be to grant her clemency and free her so that she could go with her family. No, I don't really know what a 72-year-old blind black woman who has spent 34 years in prison, I don't know how she could be more of a danger to society, plus the amount of money it costs taxpayers to continue to keep her incarcerated.

That makes no sense whatsoever, but certainly very good reporting there, Lauren Gill. Thanks a lot. Okay, thank you, Roland. All right, folks. All right, folks, that time again. No charcoal drills are allowed. I'm white. I got you, girl. Illeg illegally selling water without a permit on my property

all right folks a florida police captain is catching lots of heat after he was recorded telling his deputies to act like white supremacists and neo-Nazis. In 2017, Penny Phelps was investigating a case known as the Treehouse Murder, which involved two black men who fatally stabbed a 59-year-old man and injured a 55-year-old woman. The suspects were Rory Detroit Wilson, 52, and Franklin Tyrone Tucker, who was 48. They were being investigated by Phelps Department when she ordered her deputies to stop Wilson if he tries to flee the scene on a bike. This is the recorded conversation. I don't know when he's going to move or if he's going to move, but I have to have a marked unit. And the very worst, and David Smith had been told, to keep you in their sights in case the traffic stop

goes badly, but to stay the hell away from the traffic stop. Because we don't want Detroit knowing that we know who he is. We want it to look like you're the grumpy old man, you have nothing better to do than, you know, do white supremacist, you're messing with the black guy who's riding a bike. So we just want you to be... He has cut his hair too, so don't get right into that. There you go. I just want you to be... He has cut his hair, too, so don't get right into that.

There you go. I just want you to be the neo-Nazi that's picking on the black guy riding the bike. Get me a citizen's complaint. Get me a citizen's complaint if you have to, and I'm going to call Zorro, Juan Lara, and then Fisher's going to call David Smith and let them know that you're going to be the traffic stop guy. Lee's going to hang in the area with you. He will be your traffic stop guy. He knows. He said, you know, it's the white supremacist cop picking on the poor stop guy. Lee's going to hang in the area with you. He will be your traffic stop guy. He knows.

He said, you know, it's the white supremacist cop picking on the poor black guy that is right in front. And he knows you're all in the area, but you've been told to stay away from the traffic stop. Okay. Of course, Phelps, she's been there 18 years, has $110,000 annual salary. She's been suspended from her post. Pam, we always use this joke, always Florida. What the hell?

I don't know I what I could ascertain from that tape was that she was trying to set up either some kind of a sting or some kind of a cover for the officers to so people didn't know that they were officers acting in official capacity and so they wanted to look like just grumpy old men but this whole notion of bringing in act like a white supremacist, act like a Nazi, I mean, that's just weird. And I'm not sure I can make heads or tails of why that would have been necessary in the circumstance, but it's not entirely out of character in Florida.

You know, we've had quite a few incidences with racial profiling and racial bias and police departments that are rife with anti-immigrant and anti-black rhetoric. So I think there's probably more to the story than we saw in that clip, but I can't say that I'm entirely shocked. If you're a sheriff, Julian,

maybe you don't tell your cops, act like a white supremacist. Yeah, I would agree. Especially not on camera, where you're being recorded, you know, I don't understand, you know, like Pam was saying, I don't know all the details, you know, if it's a sting operation and you're going around people

who are extremists or whatever the case may be but it's a little out of out of the ordinary for me so i mean it's just one of those things where more and more cases like this is starting to come forward it's starting to you know whether it's something that happened four or five years ago or something that happened two days ago it's starting to just show itself. It's starting to manifest. And you would think it would have an effect on those individuals who are being caught red-handed

and hope that other people will just catch on and say, you know what, maybe I should change or maybe I should make sure if I'm going to say something that's going to come back to bite me in the butt, especially when it comes to racial profiling in African Americans, I should do it in a way where I'm not being recorded, but I mean, this is

the new age of technology, so you know, I don't know what else to say about it. It's not gonna stop no time soon. You know, I just hope we get to a point where something can be done about it, to where, you know, if you're gonna call the cops on somebody, it should be a crime.

You can't say, well, what did this person do? I see a black guy in my neighborhood. He's taking out trash, so I call the cops. I think if you start making consequences for people doing those type of things, then we'll get somewhere to where it's going to stop all of a sudden, but right now,

there's no consequence, so people are going to keep doing those things. I don't quite get it, Erica, but again, we can't ignore the reality of folks who hold these viewpoints in sheriff's departments, in police departments across the country.

Right, and it is at the harm and the death of black and brown people and people of color in general. I mean, listen, there was a report that was just recently released that clearly outlined that the leading cause of death among black men and brown people are due to interactions with law enforcement. And so we can then see why when we hear things like the top cop, Attorney General William Barr, make a statement this week where he says very clearly that, listen, law enforcement is to be respected. And those communities that don't, in effect, respect law enforcement are at risk of not being protected.

It is why then we can see why it is so easy for those type of attitudes to then flow down to where we have our Beckys and our Pattys. And while those things, you know, can somewhat give us a little bit of a chuckle and we can kind of like turn that into a gathering where we create some sort of safe space. The larger point is, is that it really is at the detriment of our community. So we're able to really draw the parallels between these type of attitudes and these behavior and then the treatment by civilians,

law enforcement, otherwise. And so this is why we don't have the entire audio. This is yet another drop in the bucket where we can see well it it does make sense when we see pictures of law enforcement people that are training that has a as a target black faces and then they go out and act on that and I would just like for people to you know really see that this is really something that really does

trickle down and harm our community in ways that affect us for generations to come. We've got to talk about the story out of North Carolina where the University of North Carolina Board of Governors, they have decided to give $2.5 million to the

Sons of Confederate Veterans over this Silent Sam statue. Now remember, the statue was toppled on the campus of the University of North Carolina. So the Board of Governors, in a secret deal, folks didn't know about it, agreed to give the monument to the group, give ownership of the statue to the group, but then also gave them $2.5 million for a trust. I see a tweet here from Kristen Clark, Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. She sent this out a couple of hours ago.

We're taking legal action to reverse UNC's Board of Governors' reckless decision to transfer $2.5 million to Sons of Confederate Veterans in connection with the Silent Sam controversy. This payout has the result of fueling white supremacy. We're fighting back. Hashtag Silent Sham. First of all, I want to go to you, Julian, first. What they're arguing is, okay, fine, if you want to give them the statue, give them the statue. Why the hell are you giving them $2.5

million for a trust for the statue of taxpayer money? Yeah, I don't know how you come to that conclusion where you give a statue, then you're rewarded with $2.5 million. I don't know how you come to that conclusion where you give a statute, then you're rewarded with $2.5 million. I don't know who approved it, but I think you can do something better with the $2.5 million by reinvesting it, putting it back into the community or schools or whatever the case may be, or even back into jobs. But I don't see the point of that.

Did they say it was a reason for why they're giving them the $2.5 million along with the statute? No, they actually haven't talked on record on this whole issue here, Pam. And they're going to have to because, again, the Board of Governors, this is a state school. These are state resources that are being given. Students are angry about this, saying that money, in fact, the North Carolina Attorney General has blasted the decision also saying that money could have been used for other purposes as opposed to giving it to the sons of Confederate veterans. My suspicion, Roland, is that they gave the money for the maintenance of the statue into the future, or at least that's some kind of argument that they're going to make.

In reality, it was probably, you know, the fraternity brother of the board of director who is a member of that Confederate something, and they worked out some kind of deal or something. I mean, it was, you know, these kinds of deals are principally backdoor deals that are made amongst folks in the same social circle. So that's probably what it's all about. But I think the bigger question is, to what extent should we be using university dollars to be driving forward these Confederate narratives? Ever, for any reason.

You know, America's one of the very few countries that I've visited that spends so much money honoring traitors and losers because that's not typically how it's done. It's not a question of remembering that they existed. We're not trying to forget our history. Us as black people, how could we possibly? It's a question of what do we honor and venerate? What do we put on a pedestal and serve as an example. And most of these statutes that were put up were put up during Jim Crow to remind black people of the dominance of white people. That's what they were there for. So I'm particularly curious as to what the discussion was like around giving that kind of

money to a group whose principal purpose is to remind black people about white Confederates who went to war with the United States to keep black people as chattel. I'm curious about that. I don't know that I have an answer for you, Roland, but I bet I'm not the only inquiring mind that wants to know. I think you could've used that money. Well, I'll tell you one thing, Erica.

I'm gonna tell you one thing, Erica. What we're dealing with here is not only that, the faculty has voted. They've condemned it. Students have condemned it. They've had protests on the campus. And they're saying you can't be silent about this. Why did you do it? And so they're demanding answers, and they haven't given them thus far.

You're the board of governors of a state institution. You might want to be a little bit more public as to what's going on. And so that shows a lot of controversy happening on this campus. Right. And I'm very proud of those students for standing up. And this just shows you why the act of protest is so very important for people that don't believe in what it actually signifies. And so also to that, it makes me think about parents sending their children to school. And so while all institutions should definitely be considered

to actually look at the profile of these schools, to look at kind of like what the campus makeup is, and to also interrogate that a little bit further as parents begin to make that decision going into the 2020 school year as well. But then also it really speaks to, as Pam brought out, like these statues that were erected in Jim Crow era, though veterans is on the end part of the sons of Confederacy, I am a veteran, right? I serve this country. I know Pam has served this country as well. And so we both took an oath to protect this country against all enemies, both foreign.

And then the last part of that is domestic. And they were domestic enemies. And so, again, I think that the work of Kristen Clark and the LDF, when people talk about, you know, the NAACP, though they are separate, that, you know, what are these different organizations, these civil rights era organizations are doing, they're doing the unsexy work issues before us, that they would fall below the fold, except for the fact that they do have active social media accounts and that they are tweeting this out, they are talking about it, they are writing op-eds, they are appearing wherever they can appear to let us know that they're

all level of harms that are affecting all of us in different ways. All right, folks, gotta go to a break. We come back today with a final day of the 25 Years of Tom Journal Morning Show. We'll talk with a book author who has written a book about that and share my thoughts about working there

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All right, folks. Today was the last broadcast of the Tom Joyner Morning Show. Twenty-five years ago, Tom Joyner launched his nationally syndicated radio show, becoming the first African-American to launch a successful national urban morning show. Of course, with that show, he entertained folks, enlightened folks, educated folks, played a huge role in the 1996-2000 election, credited with registering more than a quarter of a million voters as well. And the tributes have been pouring in all week. They've had guests like Lionel Richie. Of course, they went to college together at Tuskegee.

Oprah, Spike Lee, Reverend Jesse Jackson Sr., so many people were calling in as surprise guests. But things got real emotional today when Sybil Wilkes, his co-host for the 25 years, just shared her thoughts about what it meant to work alongside Tom Joran. I am one very grateful girl. Oh. I can't thank you enough for what you have done to me and for me. Mm.

You have given me a life beyond all imagination. You saved my life. Oh. you saved my life you were there on the day my mother died you came to my home as others have said and you saved me you gave me a home here with some of the craziest and looniest and yet the nicest

and the most brilliant people I will ever meet. For 14 years, my next guest actually studied the impact and power of the Tom Jordan Morning Show from a political and progressive view. She published her thoughts in the book Black Radio, Black Resistance, The Life and Times of the Tom Jordan Morning Show. Welcome to the show, Michaela D. Leonardo. How are you doing? It's lovely to talk to you, Roland Martin. I've been listening to you for decades. Well, I certainly appreciate it. What led you to say this book needs to be done?

Well, I've always listened to black radio since I was a child. And when I came to Northwestern in 1991, the Fly Jock was on V103. And then in 1994, he founded TJMS. And slowly over time, I began to realize that this show, which, like all the black radio shows I've always listened to in many different cities around the nation, was highly entertaining and played the music I wanted to hear. You know, the split between the rap stations and the adult black stations, but also was very, very politically progressive. We're in the 1990s and they're pro-feminist and pro-LBGTQ. I started listening hard. I started taking notes. And when you talk about that impact, and as we're talking, we're sharing some video, of course, from the Tom Jordan Morning Show cruise.

Of course, I was on many of those cruises and shared as well. And I think what people, one of the things that Tom always said and he talked about was that you have to super serve the black community and he wasn't interesting about crossing over. Yes, he did say that. But in my book, I document him welcoming, as he says, our Caucasian listeners. And a lot of white people did call and text in over the lifetime of the show. I'm not the only one.

And one of my purposes in writing the seven articles I wrote before I wrote this book was to get white progressives to listen to the damn show because it's excellent. It provided a kind of political analysis that we really weren't getting anywhere, anywhere else. So I've been pushing the show for a very, very long time. And now we've got basically the legacy book of the show's quarter century. And, of course, when we talk about those progressive issues, if you were a politician, if you wanted the black vote, this was one place you surely had to come in order to speak to an audience. But what the show also did, it showed the power of the black consumer,

because African-Americans, you know, they had the data. When Tom Joyner talked about a product, black consumers followed and purchased and supported those particular companies. And that was huge because that created the opportunity for a Ricky Smiley, for a Steve Harvey, for all the African-Americans who have come, who have followed Tom in nationally syndicated radio. Absolutely. It's an extraordinarily successful commercial show, very unusual for a show with progressive politics. And somehow he managed to thread that needle. One of the interesting things is that, I won't name names, but at the very beginning of the

show Tom and Tavis Smiley were jacking up corporations that expected black consumers but didn't advertise in black venues, etc. And they named a number of corporations, one of which is a major sponsor to this day, and they now have very warm relations. So that particular tack in a post-civil rights era when you can't get very much out of the federal government, going after corporations because they are discriminating, is basically, if you're in a corner, that's the fight you fight. And Tom Joyner managed to use that fight to fund the show, but also HBCUs. Well, again, that is the power of utilizing the mic to be able to hold people accountable. And I can tell you that was critically important. And I really will say this here, Michaela, and I know Ricky Smiley well.

He is following behind Tom. I know the other shows as well. I don't think today that you're going to see syndicated radio shows targeting African-Americans as political, as progressive as the Tom Jordan Morning Show has been over the last 25 years. I just think the business has also changed. I agree with you. Apparently streaming is really killing music radio. So the commercial model that Tom was able to exploit basically no longer exists. There's that problem.

It's also the case that it's just really hard to articulate a progressive standpoint. And what was so magnificent, what was so magical about the show is that they managed to do it all the way around. I mean, there were pro-civil rights, but civil rights did not just mean African Americans. It meant all minority Americans. They were internationalists. As I said, they were feminist and pro-gay. And to make those arguments, and they were union supporters back in the 90s, very much

for people achieving a living wage. In order to make that work, in order to have people continue to listen you need also to be funny and Tom was a genius at hiring people who are unbelievably funny and and he himself is as well well it was it has certainly been a an impactful show one that I were again, like I say, for the last 11 years worked on, folks. The book is called Black Radio, Black Resistance, The Life and Times of the Tom Joyner Morning Show. The author is Michaela D. Leonardo. We certainly appreciate it.

Thanks a lot. Thank you so much, Roland Martin. All right. Let's go to our panel here. Erica, your thoughts about the end of an historic era. I've been thinking about this all week and did shed a few tears. I thought about It's Your World, that soap opera that ran on his show for some time, and that was just something when my parents would take us to school that we would listen to.

I thought about the times that I would sit in the car and wait for the political commentary to end before I got out. And so we have an icon who has passed the torch. Tom Joyner is living history. He has opened doors that I don't know that will be open to the level that he opened them. So I just wanna say as a listener that I greatly appreciate and coming rolling in in 2008 and the

firebrand that you are, the sharp analysis and commentary that you provided to all of us, whether we agreed or disagreed, was something that I know I sat in the car for many a days and would not get out to go into work until I heard. So it really does feel like a death, so to speak. And I think that we are grieving. But thank you. And just wishing Tom Joyner, Sybil, you, Jackie Reed, everyone that has been a part of that whole programming era a quarter of a century, farewell.

And thank you. Julian. Oh, farewell. And thank you. Julian. Oh, man. Um, I met Tom Joyner, what, probably 2018, I believe. He came to Huntsville, Alabama. Um, I had a chance to sit down and talk with him. Him being a good friend, a fraternity brother. Um, I can remember as a kid, you know,

my mom would take me and my sister to school sometimes, and her favorite part was Huggy Lowdown. You know, she couldn't wait for Huggy to come on. 25 years is a long time, but it seems like it goes by so fast when it has to come to an end. You know, my great-grandmother would always say to me, all good things must come to an end, but that doesn't mean that it has to end. You know, my great grandmother would always say to me, all good things must come to an end, but that doesn't mean that it has to end. I congratulate and wish Ricky Smiley the best of luck. I just hope technology doesn't eliminate black radio, because now, you know, when you're trying to campaign and run for office, you can pull up your phone and go live on just about any social media outlet. And I hope and pray that those candidates, no matter if they're black or white, they

still want to go to Ricky Smiley to express their platform, to gain black voter support. Because technology has weeded out a lot of things that we used to do and we take for granted now. You know, it's funny how we embrace it, but we don't. We miss out on the simple things in life, how technology has made us take for granted certain things that we just no longer do. You know, you no longer get that Christmas card. Now it's a text message. You no longer, you know, have conversations at the dinner table.

Now it's everybody wants to be on their phone. You know, you no longer can pick up the phone and call somebody and just hear their voice. Now it's a face-to-face video chat now. So I just hope that, you know, granted, we don't... We keep Tom's legacy alive as Ricky has picked up the torch. Now he's going to carry it for the next 25 to 30 years. And I just hope that we remember that

and tell these politicians that want to run for office, if you want to support, you need to come here. Because a lot of people are not tech-savvy. So I don't want people to forget that. Pam Keith? You know, it's so funny. Yesterday, Roland, I spoke about one of the powers of the black community is sort of this thread of common cultural references

that connects us from one coast to the other, north to south. And a lot of that is based on syndicated radio that gave us common reference points that allowed us to talk to each other and to share similar experiences in music and news stories and things that were important to us. As a candidate myself, I had the great pleasure of being on the Tom Joyner morning show when I ran for Senate. And I was in Miami at the time, and I didn't know he was going to be there. So I show up at the studio to do my little spot.

I'm so excited. Just the idea of being syndicated for just like a hot second. And in walks Tom Joyner. And I tell you, he was the most gracious, the most approachable, the most human and kind and friendly and down to earth. And he's an icon of my childhood. So I was a little starstruck, but he definitely put me immediately at ease. And so I want to thank him, obviously, for launching so many people and for what he did for me. It was a unique pleasure.

And the last thing I want to say is that I think Julian makes an excellent point about how do we use these platforms in which so many people unite for political power? Tom did do that for candidates. But, you know, one of the funny things about black entertainment is that black people decide what's cool in America. We launch stars every day, be they in sports, music, entertainment, arts, whatever. You know, we decide what's the swagger of America. And we put our collective determination behind people and we launch them into the stratosphere. And I'd love to see Ricky take Tom's legacy and use it to launch political stars, to launch stars locally, statewide and nationally, to put the swagger and the coolness

and the hipness of what black people think and say, yeah, our candidates are all of that. Because if we do that, I think we can really change the game. I think if you, so here are my final comments here. I think if you look at today, if you look at Steve Harvey, if you look at Dio Hughley look at deal Hughley Ricky Smiley Erica Campbell Joe Madison if you look at Rick and Sasha Russ par you can go Breakfast Club you can go on and on and on none of those nationally syndicated shows will be on the air if it wasn't for the foundation that was laid by Tom Jordan. Folks, he got the name the Fly Jock because he was flying between Dallas and Chicago,

doing mornings in Dallas and doing afternoon drive in Chicago. National radio outlets did not believe that syndicated radio would work for black people. You had the Rick D's of the world, you had all these other different people out here who were doing syndicated radio. They did not believe that it would work for black folks. But Tom Jordan proved them otherwise. When you look at Tavis Smy in this commentary later um you had jeff johnson and yeah you had so many different people you had comedians who were on the show huggy lowdown chris paul damon williams bill bellamy guy tory of course longtime sidekick

j anthony brown you talk about the importance of what sybil wilkes brought as co-host. They are all 25 years as well. You talk about Myra Jay. You talk about Miss Dupree. You talk about Jenna. Talk about all those folks. There's so many people who came through the show, whether you talk about the So Proper It's Your World, whether you talk about, again, the live band that performed.

I mean, we can go on and on and on and on. But what it did was introduce so many people to black folks across the country. But many folks don't realize or may not even realize that I was the founding editor of BlackAmericaWeb.com, Tom's website. When 9-11 happened, I was pulled on the air reporting on that on the Tom Journal Morning Show. So even though I was on the show

the last 11 years, prior to that, had made appearances on the show when I was the top editor of BlackAmericaWeb.com. So what people need to understand is why was this show created? I created this show, Roland Martin Unfiltered, because I saw this day coming. I knew, look, first of all, look, you could do the math. Tom is 70 years old right now, okay?

You're not going to do this thing forever. And so when he signed his last contract and announced he's retiring in two years, I said, we have to be in the position where we don't allow something, a platform, to go away, and then we don't build something else. And so this show was the creation because I saw what was happening, because I also understood new technology

and where we were going. And that's why I launched this. And so I had conversations with Tom and his son Oscar, Tom Jr., and others about that because of that. So people have asked me, man, we used to hear you four days a week and three days a week in the last several years, two days a week, every Monday and Wednesday, 715 Eastern. What are you going to do now?

This is what I'm going to do because we have the ability to be able to bring on those very same people. I mean, Jamie Foxx, Frankie Beverly, Smokey Robinson, all of these people actually were, you know, Angela Bassett. All these people came on the show to, you know, also Tyler Perry. All the people came on the show to give their thoughts and wishes to Tom. Those are all people I've interviewed on this platform as well. And so I'm saying that because, and you heard me talk about this the other day,

the importance of black media. Tom said it best when he said, we don't have to always cross over. I've spent more of my career, more years of my career, in black media than I have in mainstream media for a reason. Because I actually believe that we can have A-list talent serving our interests and speaking to our people. Remember I told you in my commentary with regards to Tyler Perry when I said that black folks built his studio.

Black folks built the Tom Jordan Morning Show. Black folks built his company, Reach Media. Made him a mega millionaire. And so we have to understand our power. We don't have to always cross over. We don't have to always, um, want to please someone else. No, we can serve our people and do it well and still get paid and still live. Well, we're going into an election where black people are going to be targeted with a massive disinformation campaign by the Russians, even greater than what we saw in 2016. It is going to happen. We have people out here who are saying to black folks, no, don't vote. You know, Trump,

another four years is no big deal. No. We must have our own institutions telling our story, controlling our narrative, and providing platforms for our people to be able to get their word out. See, I'll be real clear, alright?

You see Pam, you see Erica, you see Julian, MSNBC and CNN and Fox News. They're not just going to call them. They're going to watch them somewhere else. And so the exact same thing happens when you see Angela Rye and David Swertlich and when you see Lauren Coates and when you see Paul Butler. And I can go on and on and on. Those are all people who came through the platforms that I created. And that's what it means when you're thinking ahead. How do you create a space for black talent to be able to showcase who they are and what they mean and how valuable they are and then other folks start paying attention. That's what the Tom Drone Morning Show did.

That's what will be happening on this show as well, which is why, just like with Tom, we need you to support. And so that has to happen for us. We must support our institutions. And so with that, we will end today's show. I am here in Dallas tomorrow. I'm going to be interviewing Spike Lee at the Windspear Opera House in Dallas. If you haven't got your tickets, please go online, go to the website and do so.

And that's critically important, again, because here's the piece. I was chilling, and they told me that they were going to have a local person interview Spike. He said, no, hell no. Y'all better call Roland Martin. And so that's why I'm here. And so looking forward to the conversation with Spike Lee tomorrow. Somebody else who called in, and congratulations, Tom, as well. And so, folks, we want you to support Roland Martin Unfiltered.

Your dollars makes this show possible, allows us to be able to cover the stories that are important to you. And so please go to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com join our bring the funk fan club again with 20,000 of our supporters give 50 bucks a year that's a little more than four dollars a month guess what we can do this show without a single advertiser dollar because guess what we can also self-fund and be in control of our destiny and be independent and so as, as always on Fridays, we end the show by showing you all of our supporters who have given thus far. If you don't see your name on the list, shoot us an email. We'll take care of that.

And if your name is not on the list, get it on there by joining our fan club. All right, folks, I'll see y'all back in the studio on Monday. Holla! I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Holla! studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we

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