#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 5.31.19 #RMU: Army won't honor slain Black solider; Black town devastated by tornadoes needs help

Episode Date: June 7, 2019

5.31.19 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Army won't honor Black solider, 2nd LT Richard Collins after his tragic murder ; Calif. charter school battle heats up; Trotwood, Ohio, largely a Black town devastated by tornadoes is not getting the same help as other cities; Chicago families lost billions to predatory lending contracts; New Hampshire repeals the death penalty Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered for Friday, May 31st, 2019, a Bowie State student said to graduate murdered by white supremacists in Maryland. But why won't the U.S. Army acknowledge his military rank and honor him in death? We will talk with his family right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Also, there's a major battle in California over charter schools. And a sister, Margaret Fortune, beats back the teachers' unions, as well as her own state representative who wanted to cap charter schools. We'll talk live with her in that ongoing battle.

Also, Trotwood, Ohio, is largely a black town devastated by tornadoes. Why aren't they getting the same kind of support that other cities are getting? Plus, Chicago black folks lost billions of dollars to predatory lending contracts. If you want to understand the issue of black wealth, the black and the white wealth gap today, this is a major issue. We're talking about more than $3 billion. Also, New Hampshire is the latest state

to repeal its death penalty. And for the first time, Grambling State University has a female band director. We'll tell you who she is. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling, yeah.

With Uncle Roro, y'all. Yeah, yeah. It's rolling, Martin. Yeah, yeah. Rolling with rolling now. Yeah. He's funky, he's fresh, yeah Rolling with Roland now Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah He's funky, he's fresh, he's real The best you know, he's Roland Martin

Now Martin Two weeks after Richard Collins was commissioned as a lieutenant in the United States Army, he was tragically murdered in Maryland by a white supremacist because he died before he received an active duty. The Army has refused to honor him as a lieutenant or grant him any military acknowledgement. Here to talk about Second Lieutenant Collins' story is his father, Richard Collins, Jr., and retired Lieutenant Colonel Arthur Govan.

Hi, both of you. Good evening, sir. This is, first of all, this is a story that we covered initially when it happened. Your son was standing at a bus stop, and a white man comes up, says one thing to him, next thing you know, he's murdered. So take us through

what you've had to deal with in terms of the military not uh honoring your son well roland the first thing was after this happened during the days following, we contacted his ROTC commander to get assistance in procuring honors for him at his funeral, his home going. And we were denied. And we were told that he was not eligible for military honors because he had not yet checked in to his first command, he had not been, quote, unquote, formally inducted into active duty. Now, he spent all four years, how long was he at Bowie State? He spent all those years at ROTC. Well, he was at Bowie State for four years, yes, and he spent four years and three years under scholarship, ROTC scholarship. I know I had lunch on Wednesday in New York with Paul Rykoff, co-founder of IAVA,

and he said they have been, of course, helping you guys with this, and you've had to deal with all sorts of different things, including getting an ambulance invoice, you know, etc., as well. So you had to deal with all kinds of drama over this, over the murder of your son. Yes. After the event, after the homegoing service, in the next week or so, bills for ambulance services, medical services, anesthesiologists all showed up in our mail and were charged to us that we had to pay those.

So we sought assistance throughout both the county and state and federal legislators to try and get assistance with that. You had other folks who have been in the military who obviously are standing with you. Lieutenant Colonel Goldvane, let's talk about this. I mean, is this normal? If it is, why should the Army grant an exception? Well, it is normal, and it's part of our processes and procedures. Like any organization, the Army has regulations and policy that they must adhere to. Unfortunately, in this situation, Second Lieutenant Collins was not on active duty yet, but he was en route there.

Again, the Army must look at every obstacle or every precedence that this actually falls into before they can actually make a decision like that of that nature. And what argument would you make? What are you saying to them why they should grant this exception? Right. We understand that this is policy and procedures in the Army and that he was not on active duty yet. However, the Collins family are asking for an exception to his policy. And like many policies, there are always exceptions that could be made.

Are you aware of other exceptions? Not in this instance, no. But however, in the Army, there's all kinds of exceptions to any policy within the Army. In this case, what we would like the Army to do is make an exception in this case on behalf of Second Lieutenant Collins. What has been the response from members of Congress, United States senators? Our congressman has worked with the Army, and they're still currently talking with the Army to try and bring resolution to this, as well as both of our senators from the state of Maryland are aware. So there has been communications.

So far, it hasn't brought about a suitable remedy. So we're still engaging with our representatives from Maryland to bring some sort of suitable remedy to this situation. JOHN YANG, Obviously, the funeral is over, but so what specifically do you want the Army to do? GEN. JOHN BARRASSO, U.S. Army Special Envoy to the United States of America, Specifically, we want to have our son redesignated as being on active duty, in addition being eligible for all military honors, even though he's already since been laid to rest.

But those honors still can be rendered, and also to receive the benefits accorded to any service member who is killed on active duty. HARI SREENIVASAN, When you think about this case, first of all, no, the state of Maryland decided not to charge with hate crimes. Have you heard anything from the Department of Justice on this case? DET. JOHN BARRON, No, let me correct you on that. The state of Maryland has not determined it's not a hate crime.

The federal authorities have commented that they could not find, in the federal statutes, enough evidence to declare a hate crime. So, but the bit man who was charged in his death, Maryland is going after him. What's the designation? First-degree murder and a hate crime. And so the U.S. attorney made that determination? That was their statements. But keep in mind, the U.S. attorneys do not have jurisdiction

in the case of our son. He was murdered on the campus of the University of Maryland, which is the state's jurisdiction, and specifically Prince George's County. So he falls under the state's attorney for Prince George's County's jurisdiction. And have they set a trial date as of yet? Yes. The trial date has been set for July 22nd, a motions hearing was scheduled yesterday. Due to some difficulties, unexpected, it got postponed,

and now the motions hearing is rescheduled for Wednesday, the 5th of June. Lieutenant Colonel Govan, how are you also mobilizing other members of the military who are active, also retired retired to help in this but there are a lot of uh... actually my friends from the military that i seek advice and guidance from and so let's go back to mr collins point about we want an exception to the policy again that's a process and it takes a while to actually uh... move that process along with anything in the army there's always a process and procedure and a stumbling block.

In this case, we have to get the information, the right information, to the right decision-makers in the military who can actually grant this exception to policy on the behalf of Second Lieutenant Collins. And at this point, we have not have not uh for me from my perspective we have not reached the decision-making authority who can actually grant or even consider to grant this exception to policy and who's who specifically is that well there are several general officers a general officer is a decision-making authority um the the correct the general officer who needs to do this we have not been able to reach this person yet, this officer yet.

However, working with the Secretary of Army and the Senator's office, we are looking to make a meeting or set up a meeting to actually speak to some of the general officers who actually have the authority to make this decision, but that has not occurred yet. All right, then. Well, we certainly appreciate both of you coming on the show to share this with us, and certainly good luck in trying to make it happen.

Yes, sir. Thank you. All right, folks, we're going to go to break. When we come back, a roller bar unfiltered. We'll talk about a variety of issues, including a town in Ohio hit hard by tornadoes, plus what's going on in California when it comes to charter schools. One sister, she has beaten back the teachers union. For now, what are her plans next? All of that next on Roland Martin Unfiltered.

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forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. Hey folks, we're back. MarijuanaStock.org is another great investment opportunity. If you were lucky enough to invest in their last crowdfunding campaign, you know they raised a lot of money in just a few months investing in legal marijuana farms. Those initial investors now own shares of a publicly traded company. They are certainly on fire. Now, last time, of course, many of you missed it. Y'all been emailing me. Now you have an opportunity this time for this new investment opportunity that is as good, if not even better, than the last time. I'm talking about industrial hemp CBD.

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is very simple they buy land that supports hemp cbd grow operations and lease it to licensed high paying tenants that's right they are hemp cbd landlords and you can get in on the action and you can invest in this crowdfunding campaign for as little as $200 up to $10,000. Like I said, you don't want to miss out. I mean, if you did the first time, now you have a second opportunity to invest. Go to marijuana stock.org. That's marijuana stock.org. Folks, if you want to get in the game, you certainly must do it now. All right, folks, there's a battle between public and first of all, traditional public schools and charter schools in California. But it's not really between the

schools. It's really the forces who do not want more charter schools in the state of California. There was a state representative who introduced a bill that would cap charter schools because he says that they're taking money from various local districts, making it harder for them to balance their books. A couple of weeks ago, you remember, I went to Sacramento and hosted a town hall there for Margaret Fortune of the Fortuna School because she has been fighting these particular bills. I'm talking about fighting them hard. Well, guess what? Last week, the California assembly narrowly passed a legislation that would give local school districts sole authority to approve new charter schools based on how they

impact their budgets but also they defeated the bill when it came to capping those charter schools as well here to talk about this is margaret fortune she's the president and ceo of the fortune schools uh marg, how you doing? I'm fabulous. It's good to be on the air with you, Roland. All right, then. Glad to have Margaret here. So folks, is Margaret by phone or Skype? By phone. Okay. All right, then. So let's talk about what actually took place here. First and foremost, these bills that were introduced, the state rep who represents the area where you're from there in Sacramento put these forward, even though, one, his wife sits on the Sacramento school board, and two, of the schools in the whole state with the highest performing places where black students go,

three of those 10 schools in the state are of your schools in his district. That's right. And, you know, I have to name names roland uh kevin mccarty who's a member of the california legislative black caucus authored a very controversial bill to cap the growth of charter schools in california such that a new school would not be allowed to open unless an existing school would close. A very tight cap that almost amounted to a moratorium on charter schools. And this is despite the fact that black students are severely underserved by district-run schools. In fact, they're the lowest performing subgroup other than students with special needs.

And despite the fact that many of the highest performing charter schools serving a majority black student population are in his district. He put this forward, obviously, the teachers union, they've been pushing this in the state. You had the strike in Los Angeles that was really around charter schools as well. And what still baffles me, and give our audience an understanding, how many kids are in public schools in California, and how many of those kids are in charter schools? We have about 6.6 million kids in public schools in California, and about 660,000 are in charter schools. Looked at it in a different way, 90% of public school kids in California are in traditional district-run schools. So this whole debate happening in such a heated way in California

is about what's happening in 10% of the system. And in the California context, all charter schools are nonprofit. Our state outlawed, for example, for-profit charter schools, which you'll hear Bernie Sanders talking about. And also, you see concentrations of charter schools in largely urban areas where families, particularly African-American families, are concerned about the quality of education. Some of these statistics are students in mathematics, for example, 80% of black kids in California cannot do mathematics at grade level. 80%. If you look at English language arts, 68% of black kids can't read or write at grade level. So quite understandably, black parents, low-income parents, Latino parents are looking for free options within the public school system. And what you had in this blue wave over California is the teachers union led by the California Teachers Association that represents, oh, about 300,000 members and is the wealthiest lobby in California, try to take advantage of the positioning of California as the head of the resistance

to use it as an opportunity to say that they needed to beat back charter schools. And you mentioned the L.A. teacher strike. L.A. had a recent teacher strike. So did Oakland. And a political tactic in those strikes were for those school district boards, as a part of their collective bargaining agreement with their teachers unions, to adopt resolutions that said, pointed to charter schools as the reason why they couldn't balance their budgets and therefore called for a halt to all new charter schools. The reality of the situation, Roland, is that school districts have skyrocketing pension costs, skyrocketing health care costs.

They're making agreements in many of these cities brokered by the mayors that are multi-year compensation agreements that they can't afford. And therefore, they're setting themselves up for fiscal insolvency and bankruptcy and state takeover. And rather than deal with the very difficult reality of that, they've scapegoated charter schools. And in the past week, that has been a massive fail as it relates to the concept of a charter cap, which Kevin McCarty, this gentleman I was talking about, offered legislation to do, but also a charter moratorium that we saw co-sponsored by the California Teachers Association and also the NAACP. The state NAACP, but there were breakaway chapters. There were different chapters

who disagreed with the state branch of the NAACP, and it stood with you. That's why this debate has just been fascinating. So recently, in 2016, the state NAACP and the national NAACP approved a resolution that there should be a moratorium on charter schools across America. And the origin of that resolution was in California. That's where it came from. Alice Huffman, who's on the national board, who was over the California state NAACP. And she championed this along with a fellow named Julian Bosquez-Pillig, who is a union-affiliated faculty member from Sacramento State University, the university

that's in my backyard. And they ran it all the way to the national level. And then Alice Huffman had town hall meetings all across America, which were basically food fights between charter school leaders and local teachers' unions. Not a productive conversation at all. But fast forward from 2016 to 2019, where we are today, and they're actually sponsoring legislation in the California Senate to have a charter school moratorium. Well, this week, that moratorium bill went down in flames. It wasn't able to get out of the House of Origin. And what was an important evolution in the story is that there were three

breakaway chapters or branches of the NAACP, San Diego, San Bernardino, and South Riverside, all in the southern part of the state, who adopted resolutions with extensive data about the underperformance of black kids in California public schools and said, enough is enough. We don't need to have a charter school moratorium. We need to be supportive of all public school options available to our families. And we should be holding all schools accountable, charter schools and traditional government-run schools alike. The other thing that's interesting in this conversation is that then there was a pile-on of civil rights groups

that opposed this anti-charter legislation that was being advanced by the CTA, the California Teachers Association, all of the urban leagues in the state of California, all of Al Sharpton's National Action Network chapters in the state of California, all weighed in on the side of charter schools saying, in light of the data, our families need choices in the public school system. And as black people, we ought not be trying to shutter schools that are doing right by black kids. And as a matter of fact, we should be encouraging them. I want you to just one more time. You said 80% of black kids are not on grade level in which category? In mathematics.

And 68% in? 80%. The 68% in? In reading and writing. Gotcha. All right, then. So, Margaret, last question. What's next? Because Kevin McCarty has said he's going to introduce, he's going, he said the fight is not over. The fight is not over, and it's not over because there's a really detrimental bill that did make it through the process. It's actually by a guy named Patrick O'Donnell, a legislator out of Long Beach, California, who is the chair of the Assembly Education Committee. And this bill that made it out of the Assembly

and is now primed to go to Senate education, probably in a July timeframe, would take away all of the appeal rights of charter schools. So no due process for charter school petitioners who are seeking to open a new school. And it would say that if a school district thinks that the charter school will cost them money by taking away enrollment, that that would be a reason to deny the school. So, and always the charter schools are going to cost the district school enrollment because the money follows the child. It's not the district that has an entitlement to those taxpayer dollars. It's the child. And the money follows the child to the public school that educates them. And that includes charter schools because charter schools are public schools. So that's the next fight. I'm serving on a task force that the governor, Gavin Newsom, appointed to look at these issues and make a recommendation.

So reasonable legislators like our chair of the California Legislative Black Caucus, Shirley Weber out of San Diego, who has been quite the champion, reasonable legislators are waiting for the governor's task force to issue their report. Gotcha. All right, Margaret Fortune, president of the Fortune, president, CEO of the Fortune Schools. We appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks so much, Roland. All right. Again, folks, the video you were seeing there, that was from the town hall that I moderated in Sacramento there with Margaret Fortune and the Fortune Schools just a few weeks ago in Sacramento. Joining us right now, Dr. Julian Malveaux, economist, president, emeritus, Bennett College, Dr. Cleo Monago, social political analyst and activist, Long Victoria Burke writer in NNPA. Cleo, I saw your response when you heard 80% failure and then 68% failure.

80% failure in mathematics, 68% failure 80 percent failure mathematics 68 percent failure in reading i was wondering if that was statewide statewide now here's the crazy thing and again when i was there was a crazy of the top 10 schools in the entire state where african-americans are performing at high levels three of them three out of the 10, she runs. Those three are in the district of the state rep who wants to cap charter schools. But here's what's the craziest part. He also had in the bill that if Julian had a charter school and Lauren, who ain't never had a school, wanted to replace a new charter school you who's already successful can't apply to replace the one that failed but what's the excuse what is the explanation to

justify what appears to be a irrational decision what in the state of california the the biggest critics of charter schools are the teachers union because they are advancing this idea that school districts as she said can't balance their budgets because of charter schools which is illogical if 90 percent of all kids in the state go to traditional schools how is it you can't balance the budget because 10 percent go to charters. Because it's not privately funded. It's publicly funded. And when it's publicly funded, obviously they won't have the money. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Finish? Yeah, so obviously charter schools take part of public money. So wouldn't the answer to this be to improve the public school system rather than to create a new thing? But here's the deal. Are they improving?

Well, no, but we're not trying to fix them. We're trying to create a new thing but there but here's a deal are they improving well we're not trying to fix them we're trying to create a new thing no actually no supposedly they are trying to fix them and my thing is charter schools are fine but but privately fund them no but the Charles are public they're actually public schools why don't we they're using public money and that becomes a challenge sister fortunes work is well known well documented she's doing good work at the same time Roland I have some They're losing public money. And that becomes a challenge. Sister Fortune's work is well-known, well-documented. She's doing good work. At the same time, Roland, I have some pushback around the charter school movement from any number of reasons.

Her schools are good. All of them are not. You quoted the statistics. You said 86% can't do mathematics. No, 80% are not on level with mathematics. And 68% in language and arts. How does that compare to public schools? I mean, because that's the question.

No, no, no. No, that's the question. No, no, no. One second. That's the question. That's the state. Those are public schools. That's the state's numbers.

So how are her schools different? What she did not do in this conversation is say, my schools do this, which is different from those schools. So here's what I know. Here's what I know. Hold on, hold on. When you say do different, what do you mean? What are her statistics? What are her results? What are her statistics? Because here's what I know for sure, is that 90 percent of most kids are going to public schools. My effort as an activist, as an educator, is going to be to improve the quality of public schools. I don't have a problem with charter schools.

Alice Huffman is a friend and a colleague. I think she's coming a little hard, and she hasn't really quite expressed herself appropriately. No, she's expressed herself. She's just wrong. No. Because black parents ain't buying it. Well, black parents are not buying it. When I say black parents are not buying it, we literally commissioned Cornell Belcher to do a poll specifically on black parents

and their thoughts on charter schools and vouchers. More than 70% of black parents who were polled, when you talk about a Republican pollster, said I'll put my kid in the charter or voucher. And here's why. Because this is the problem. This is the conundrum that we are in. Black parents ain't got time to talk about contracts, civil rights groups, unions.

They're saying, my kid, not learning. You're right. That's what they're saying. Here's what you're right about. Black parents want the best thing for their kids. Of course. they're saying. Here's what you're right about. Black parents want the best thing for their kids. Of course. Whatever it is. Whatever it is. But we had a

education summit at PushXL on March 17th, which was the anniversary of Brown vs. Board. Nicole Hannah-Jones, who's a writer from the New York Times, came and she talked about her work and the ways that we, all of us middle class people, can support public schools.

And that's, I mean, at the end of the day, you can cream a few off, you can take 10 percent, what happens to everybody else? Hold on, hold on, hold on. See, this is... And the majority is in public school systems. But this is... So improve the public school system. And you're right to say that black parents don't have time for that talk. That's true. Let's improve where most of the black kids

are. That's the public school system. But here's what's interesting to me. When we say, first of all, I agree, let's improve the public school system. Absolutely. But we're still waiting. They're literally... Why are we waiting? We're waiting... Because we're siphoning off the money.

Well, you're not. No, you're not. No, no, no. First of all, you're not siphoning the money off. Because how can you... You are siphoning the money money. No, you're not. No, you're not. No, no, no. First of all, you're not siphoning the money off. Because how can you be siphoning the money off? No, you're not. If the money follows the child, let's say that every child has $5,000. I need y'all to explain to me, how is 10% hurting the bank? Some of it's public money, Lola. Some of it's public money. You're not private, too.

It's all public money, Lola. It's all public money. But, Lola public money. You're not private. It's all public money, Laura. But, Robin, there's another issue here. The other issue that maybe was discussed in some of the program is that these schools don't know how to educate black children. Hello? And I want to mention...

So Dr. Fortune's schools know how to educate black kids. Well, guess what? I'd rather have Dr. Fortune educate more black kids. I have no issue with her work. I have no issue with her work. I have an issue with the erosion of public education and everything that is standing. No, but we're still, hold on, but Cleo's just saying, wait a minute, if they're doing it because they know how to educate black kids.

I was just at Jay Z J zoo school yesterday in Philadelphia. We are town hall two nights ago. I'm in Philadelphia. This is a Jesuit school, independent school, not to tie to the archdiocese there. 450 students, 90% of the students there on free reduced lunch.

So I can't, I can't hear Diane Ravitch yellow. Oh my God. Are they poor? Oh, they real poor 450 kids 90% of their kids graduate

85% go to college oh and it's open enrollment nobody can say well they pick and choose but that's unusual come on that's unusual so here's what I need to understand if you in Philadelphia go to their school and say to hmm, to your point, Cleo, what are they doing to get those results?

And we might want to replicate it. That's my problem when we talk about this deal here, because parents are not trying to wait for that mystical, magical day when the grand plan is unveiled because you know what they said to the audience and to black children probably watching this so they want me to moralize is this the inability to properly educate you has to do with your intelligence level has nothing to do with you being deficient absolutely with these systems being culturally out to lunch and and unable to understand your path in this society in ways that get you focused enough to learn, take advantage of your genius and your intelligence. Because that's nothing to do with you being deficient. I want to make that clear. Absolutely. Because we keep on putting out these, I mean, 80% and 68%. I mean, that's why most fathers cheer. It's like,

that's crazy. And I'm from California and I met all kinds of brilliant black children because I was among them that knew how to get through these systems, but it was difficult because the systems were not affirming of black children. And I think, I'll close with this, that there is... I'm a black, because I was a black child who got put out in so many high schools and wasn't even... I think the inability to

work well and succeed with black children is connected to some kind of systemic level of resistance to affirming black children. Here's what I'm still trying to understand this is real basic for me if there are traditional schools that work and there are charters that work and the numbers are there why can't they coexist there's nothing wrong with that the problem is that but that's not what they want you're you're you're focusing what i don't understand about this is that why can't the focus be on fixing what's broken in the public school system? Because that is resistance.

Where most of the schools are. There's always resistance. We have been waiting for that since the creation of public schools. No kidding. And it hasn't. It's always resistance. I mean, what a shock. The basis of public education has always been tracking.

And what we've had in the last 40 years is a resistance to that. We've had black folks being elected to school boards. We've had people make differences. But the fact is that, no, anything that's public is not going to help black people. And most things that are private are not going to help black people. I mean, I just think, you know. Hold up, hold up, hold up. So if anything that's public ain't going to help black people, I mean, I just think, you know... Hold up, hold up, hold up. So if anything that's public

ain't going to help black people, what the hell are we talking about? Well, what are the stats across the board for charter schools? Well, what's missing... What are the stats across the board for charter schools? No, see, that's what I'm saying right here.

No, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. And if you look across the board, they're not better. They're not better. If you lay out... First of all, you lay out across the board, which I've said consistently, across the board, i've said consistently across the board you've got good medium bad absolutely no better

and so what i'm saying no better no no no wait a minute so what i'm saying is why is it i mean we can try i'm just trying to i'm trying to actually answer this why is it we can't go, huh, if these work traditional and these work charter and these don't work traditional and these don't work charter, how about we get rid of what don't work? Absolutely. And not go, well, I know that charter works, but we need to go ahead and get rid of it. Rolling. Because that's not what anybody's saying. No, no, Julianne, you're wrong.

There's no evidence that charges are better. That's what they're saying in California. Julianne, hold on. That's a mistake. No, no, hold on. Let me help you out with the bill. That school is better. They literally, no.

That school is better. This is how illogical the bill is. If you're Margaret Fortune. We're not arguing how illogical the bill is. No, we're not. No, we are. No, I agree. Because I'm trying to tell you.

We agree. Across the board. I'm trying to explain to you why they created what they did. There's no argument, Roland. No, no, no. We to tell you. We agree. Across the board. I'm trying to explain to you why they created what they did. There's no argument, Roland. No, no, no. We agree with you. Because in California, literally, Margaret Fortune, if the bill had passed, the bill would have said if a charter school failed, that was not. And Margaret Fortune says, I want to take that over with my results.

The law says you can't. Right. You can't. We'll go ahead and let somebody who's unproven take it over. But a proven leader can't. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. No one's disagreeing. No one's disagreeing. There are three lines to this conversation. Oh, you still have Margaret there? Oh, we have one. Okay, I'm to say, okay, I'm going to pull Margaret up because she's still there. I realize she's still there. Go ahead.

There's one line that talks about what Dr. Fortune is doing for good work. Right. There's one line that talks about what public schools should do, can do. No, no, no. I ain't talking about what they should do, what they are doing. Well, no. Not should. Let's talk about the public school system.

Should is hypothetical. What the public school system, Roland Martin, does is educates 90 of our kids wow really you're talking to somebody who went to public schools came through 12 and four years who didn't even go to a private hbcu i went to all public schools i ain't never went to a private school i drove by private schools i went to a magnet school but the problem i have with this is that you have black people who have allegiances to one system. And guess what? They don't send their kids to public schools. The very people, the very people who fight Margaret Fortune, state legislators, civil rights leaders, and others who are black,

guess what? They send their kids not to public school. So it amazes me when I hear... Well, they can't put me out of public life. No, no, no, no, no. Members of the private school. And that's my point. And that's my point. Margaret, go ahead. Margaret, go ahead.

Margaret, go ahead. Dr. Fortune, I'd like to pipe in and say that, you know, I've been an education advisor to two California governors. And it is always the practice in California public policy that if schools fail, that we pour more money into them. Very rarely do you ever see consequences actually, even if they're on the books in law, implemented beyond technical assistance. So California is a state that very much invests in more money for schools that are struggling, more technical assistance, more professional development, it has not yielded the kinds of results that we would want to see for black students.

Over how many years? Dr. Fortune. Hold on. Cleo asked a question. Go ahead, Doc. Answer. Since the creation of Title I. But, you know, when I was in the Davis administration, and, you know, right now we're in Newsom,

and before that it was Brown, and before that it was Schwarzenegger. So I'm talking about Davis, right? And all these people except for Davis serve two terms. Are there any white parallels to this? Any white community parallels to this? And I mean, very specifically, constantly funding or reaffirming dysfunctional systems that are not effective and keep on going back to the drawing board of ineffectiveness to be ineffective again for a decade and then being effective again to put some more money in effective for this. Is there a wide equivalent to this of apparently not valuing these children's education?

There's not, because basically the achievement, it tracks to wealth. So you've got a wealthy suburban district that do well, and you have inner city urban districts that don't do as well. Now, I will tell you, under Governor Jerry Brown, he significantly increased the funding and tipped the scale towards school districts that were urban. And so, for example, when I first started opening schools, the state allocation back in 2010 per child was $6,000. It has increased to $12,000. But that's compared to $22,000 in New York.

So I would make the argument that we all need to be... So I need to ask... Hold on, hold on. I would make the argument... Go ahead. Doctor, somebody asked the question earlier. You were on the phone. The question was, if 80% are failing across California

and 80% in one category, 68% in the other, what are your numbers? How are they performing at your schools? So 58% are met meeting standards in reading and writing and 54% are meeting standards in math. So hold on. So let's just, we compare this. So 20% across the state are meeting standards in math at your school is 54 that is correct 32 are meeting the state on a reading and writing and what's the percentage

for your schools 58 so in both of our some both those categories europe thirty points higher the end of the traditional school no one's arguing that this one i don't know i don't know what i want to do it i mean it's not a good idea it's not a good idea we don't have a good idea of what you're going to be unpacking the idea of the market across the board i don't know how i think it's you can't help but i think You asked for her results. She just got the answer. Margaret, go ahead. No, no, no, no, no, no.

I said you did ask about my results. I was listening. And it would seem to... One second, one second. Margaret, go ahead. It clearly is. You asked about my results. Are they better?

They clearly are. So the question becomes to me, why not ask these public school educators, because charter schools are public schools, how they're getting the results. Why not have... Which is what we all ask. What I want to ask her,

what would you, Dr. Fortune, do to make the public schools better? Yeah, easy. Come sit in her damn schools and take some notes. Why don't she ask... No, no, but I'm saying... No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's the point.

Here's the point. No, no, no, you asked her. What would she do Here's the point. Here's the point. No, no, no. You asked her. What would she do? I think you have to answer the question. Marjorie, go ahead. The answer is I would hold them to the same level of accountability as public charter schools. I am up for a review, a public review every single year, a public review against every promise that I've made about what my academic goals are and my fiscal accountability and my social-emotional wellness of the children.

Every goal I've made goes through public examination every year. And every five years I go through a review, and if I haven't met my target, my school's closed. My father is a retired school superintendent. Even if a school is severely under-enrolled in the traditional public school system, nobody wants to close it, even if it makes no sense for it to be open. But in a charter school context, what we know is that if we don't perform, then we're not going to be doing this work. And so there's a tremendous amount of focus on getting results for students. I think the other thing is that I get to select a staff that is very mission driven, very, very low percentages of teachers in California

public schools are black. 44% of mine are black. And it's because I'm explicitly talking about black students and closing the act. We're not exclusive. We're a public school. We accept everybody. But we do not change the subject about going for college preparation for black students starting in kindergarten. And it's the narrative and the mission focus which helps us. And I'll tell you, I have been the CEO of this system of schools that I've created for 11 years. In that time, there have been at least three superintendents of the Sacramento City Unified School District. And now, because they have a $35 million budget gap, they are anticipated to run out of money by November and be taken over by the state. So there's tremendous volatility and instability in the leadership of many of these urban school

districts that our families are counting on to work. In my context, leadership matters. Principal leadership matters. leadership matters and stability matters all right final comment on this time before I go to the Chicago story Julian again dr. fortune kudos to you but I want to know what you could do to make sure that public schools are more effective I know that's not your mission that's many of our mission you just said you do no that's in your classroom no no not that she just said that actually i run i run a school of a graduate school of education and i credential teachers for about 60 to 7 traditional public schools and i teach them i license them

and we also license principals and we teach them how to create the setting that we've created in our schools at a classroom level. Even if their whole school is on board, they can implement it in our classroom. And we also have licensing programs for principals where they can learn to implement this model on a school-wide level. So that's our contribution, which is huge, to disseminating our best practices because I think it's important. And remember, I'm a public school superintendent's kid I think it's important that all of our schools succeed but I also have a sense of urgency that we're not going to wait anymore

time's up on that dr. fortune what you're doing is obviously brilliant the work you've done is brilliant but there is no evidence across the board in this country that charters are any better than public schools obviously everybody would want to replicate your work everywhere i mean that's clear but there are brilliant there are great public schools just like there are great charter schools yes there are better charter schools like there's bad public and both can coexist all right so why can't... No one's saying nothing about coexistence. I'm talking about the money. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on one second.

What y'all both are saying is not true. When y'all say no one is saying that, that is a fundamental lie. Is this a private... No, no, wait a minute. One second. Let me answer you. There are individuals in this country

who absolutely say no charter school. We are not those individuals. No, no, no. When y'all say no one is saying, you should say I'm not saying it. But it's not true that no one is saying it. All I want, Roland, every parent has the right to find a school. You question your funding across the board i said across the board there's no statistical evidence that's and that charters and yes and what i'm trying to say that's not true that's not true look at the credo report report out of stanford that's not true stanford did research that shows an urban area

we just got some statistics that were evidence of her school better she should be that shows an urban area. There's no evidence that charters are better. There's no evidence that charters are better. We just got some statistics that were... Now, obviously, there's evidence that her school is better. Her school is better, but charters by and large are horrible charters. Go ahead. We just heard some statistics, if I'm not, you know, hearing things, that we heard 80% of mathematics...

Hold on one second. In the state of California, 80% of black kids in traditional public second in the state of california you're right 80 percent of black kids in traditional public schools across the state of california in california are failing when it comes to the issue of math not reading when it comes to reading reading but 68 but she has better statistics in terms of she does their existing statistics though because this whole conversation is happening in the context of california right and there's resistance to to replicating what she's doing use their best practices on a systemic level there's no resistance i'm just making a point if there's no resistance there's legislative resistance to charters. There's no resistance to Sanford.

There's legislative resistance. Relax. No, no, no. Lauren. You're wrong. Lauren. Relax. Lauren, here's the deal.

There's no proof that charters are better than public schools across the board. Lauren. Lauren. Across the board. I want you to look at the street order. This is the mistake. Not just California. This is the mistake that you keep making.

This is the mistake that you keep making on this one. And that is very simple. I can show you great charters, good charters, bad charters. I can show you great traditional schools, good, bad. What I am saying, which somehow you're not hearing, is there are individuals who don't want the great charters, who don't want the good charters. That's just not the case. It's not the case? Hold up, Dr. Fortune.

Are you not dealing with people who do not want you in business? Yes or no? Who was arguing that? Yes. Are you dealing with the largest funder of Democrats in the state of California who do not want you in business? Who would that be? Yes.

That's the California Teachers Association. I'm at the California Democratic Convention right now. Are you dealing with state legislators, including one in your home district, who do not want to see you in business? Yes. There's your proof. That sounds like a system. I'm trying to understand what more you need. That is a case.

That is a case. That is a case. That is a case and not proof. Again, I'm going to get this person all the cool. Oh, my Lord. That's a stretch. That ain't even a stretch. I don't know what we were drinking before the show, but to somehow not believe that there are people who do not want to see the Margaret Fortunes and the Steve Perrys and the Tim Kings and the Gestalts and the others. And what I'm saying is this here. I went to traditional schools.

All I'm saying is this here. If I believe in good, great, what works for our kids, and what I will do, I'm going to fight black people who will say, no, we don't want any more of that because why can't we just fix this? Well, hell, we've been waiting on this, and that car's still broke, and they're driving us nowhere. I know this is a show, but let's just roll it back for a minute, if you don't mind.

So I think we all agree that our kids are entitled to the best opportunity to learn, whether it's charter, public, whatever. Mag at home school, online school, technical school, private, parochial, you name it. But I also believe that there's been an attack on public education that we need to repel. I feel very strongly about that. Dr. Fortune has my kudos. Tim and Steve Perry, they all have my kudos. But let's look at the public education system that's educating most of our kids.

You know how much we stay? 90% of our kids. You know what I'm attacking? 80% not passing math. I'm attacking 68% not passing reading. We can fix that. We can fix that. We can fix that. Let me know when it happens. Dr. Fortune, make your final comment for 40 years.

Dr. Fortune, go ahead. So here's the thing. We should all be, and and i consider myself advocates of public education there's no reason why 90 of the system needs to turn on 10 and point to them and say you ought not exist the thing is education is competing for resources with health care, with health and welfare programs. We should be united in marching for more support and funding for all public education. But this constant war that's being launched quite clearly by the California Teachers Association because they never wanted us to exist in the first place, is a distraction for the Black

community on the real issues that are flipping our kids. And if we could somehow coexist and maybe even develop a sense of trust, then we can unpack some of these practices from high-performing environments, whether they be public charter schools or traditional schools that are serving black students well, so that more can have that experience. But as a black community, we need to be holding everybody accountable and not fall into this bickering about what delivery system it is. From my perspective, if you are effective in educating black kids, I'm going to support you regardless of what your delivery system is. Well, Dr. Fortune, you said something that was critical. You said that the state of California could very well take over the Sacramento school system.

This is how I look at it in terms of what works and what doesn't. If you're killing it and you're outperforming somebody else, I'd rather you run 10 more schools. And you know what? If you're killing it with 10 schools and they still failing, I say give you 10 more. Why? Because it's our children. But what happens is we keep having folks tell us to accept mediocrity and wait on that promised land for that ship to come in. And we have another generation of black kids who are going through these systems. In fact, when I did your town hall there,

I cannot remember the woman. She was a longtime educator. There's an initiative for kids to qualify for the California state schools. Didn't she say only seven black children in Sacramento qualified on all levels for California state universities? What is something like that? Something like that? It was, it was very, it was alarmingly low. And that was a retired school superintendent of one of the area districts in Sacramento who's serving on an advisory committee

for the Sacramento Unified School District. So a very credible source, a full career in traditional public schools. Yeah, she said that what they do is, she said, in terms of in the Sacramento School District, in terms of students who qualify on all levels to enroll in California State Universities, seven black kids in the whole district. That, to me, is an abomination. And our tax dollars pay for that. Dr. Fortune, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Right.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, our tax dollars pay for it. Right. Our tax dollars pay for it. Roller, the Teachers Association is valuing control and tradition, including dysfunctional tradition over being effective and over being able to replicate systems that have worked to educate black children.

They're valuing control and they're valuing their presence and them being relevant as opposed to being effective. Right. And that kind of thinking has messed up a lot of black opportunity. At the same time, Cleo, I mean, I agree with you like 90%. But I also think that the CTA and the teachers unions have been very effective in... Keeping their job? No, protecting black teachers.

There is a racism in the educational system that black teachers have been subject to. And we have to deal with that. I have spoken to the AFT, the NEA. I have spoken to numerous education groups. And you know what happens? When I stand in front of those groups, black teachers, and I say, how many of y'all know

teachers, principals, and administrators ain't got no business involving education? Hands fly up. No doubt. hands fly up no doubt well hands fly up and so here's the deal i'm i'm tired of us putting the cover and a new coat of paint on sorry my deal i'm telling you i don't care if if the problem that we have is we think that the only that the public the the current school system is a delivery system it's not the delivery system if you have a hundred thousand kids and the and its number goes to traditional public charge public charter magnet home school magnet, homeschool, online school, parochial, vouchers or whatever, and it works, I got no complaints. But what I'm not going to do is say no to this because it should be here. No to vouchers. Even though we support our kids going to private HBCUs, which is government taxpayer dollars in the form of a voucher.

It's called a Pell Grant. Same thing. We ain't got no problem with our kids going to private HBCUs. You ain't got me on that. You ain't got me on that. No, but we know we don't. No, no. I just don't.

I'll be saying that. Just say Pell Grant. We ain't got no problem. It's a public education. No, but that's not our point. Right. But my point is, though, we got no problem when we say who goes to Morehouse or Spelman or Houston Tillerson or private HBCUs with taxpayer dollars. But then we say, oh, no, I don't like about you. It's the same thing.

Literally the same thing. What I'm tired of are seeing black people having a better brunt of failure. And if we got black educators who can take a charter school and teach our kids better than them, I'm saying I'm down with it. A hundred percent. I don't mind. I think that anything that a parent does to make sure that their child has maximum efficiency in education. I'm with that. And that's why they don't care about the NAACP moratorium, which I said when they did it. Ain't going to do what for black people.

You can make the same speech about good public schools, though. What? The speech you just made you can make about good public schools. And I have. And I'm saying coexist. But there are forces who do not want them to coexist. They want to see Tim King shut down. I was yesterday, two days in Philadelphia, black woman who was the principal of the year

in the Philadelphia school system, who created her own two charter schools, who's doing better than traditional schools there. She applied for additional 132 seats over the next four years and was denied. Because they said, we don't want to lose the money. Now, damn the kids. We don't want to lose the money. No, I got you on that. I'm on a board of a charter school in someplace upstate new york and uh you don't know where it is yeah i know where

it is but i ain't gonna say why are you on the way anyway whatever i'm on the board somewhere up there okay all right no no no buffalo but anyway but anyway i mean i you know i'm gonna call them out but we have had challenges just getting the school approved because people don't want the school there. I got you. Who are the people? No, no, no, don't say people. Who are the people? The state.

And who in the state? Legislators. And who funds them? The government. And who funds them? Who funds the school? No, no, who funds them? Who funds the school?

Who funds the school? And do they look like this? They look just like that. And who funds them? Who funds the school? Who funds the school? And do they look like this? They look like, they look just like that. And who funds them? Why don't we just say that? And who funds them? No, no, no, no, no. No.

Who funds the school? Who funds the legislators who don't want y'all, your child school to do better? It's boards of education, state boards of education, who don't want this young sister who's trying to build this thing to have the opportunity to do... No, no, no, no, no, no. That ain't why. No, no, no. Hold on. No, Julia. No, no, no. That's why. Roll that back and say it again. State boards and local boards don't want a sister to do what? To provide educational opportunities for young black children. No. So, you know, we are on the same page up to a point, but I also think that we can't throw

public schools out. Never say throw them out, but my problem is they are denying that sister the opportunity to educate our kids and saying, y'all got to stay here, and they failing here. That's right. And then black people saying, y'all shouldn't go nowhere. Hell no. If that sister can take 400 and educate them and do well, I want her to get 400 more and 400 more. So you'll speak at our next fundraiser, right? I ain't got no problem doing it. That's why I'm doing this. It's a black choice. But what I'm sick and tired of black people making excuses for failed systems. They ain't the ones making excuses. Who's making excuses for it? I'm not making excuses.

People have making excuses. Who's making excuses? I'm not making excuses. People have made excuses. I'm not making excuses. I'm looking at structure. I'm looking at structure. We do know what you're dealing with. I've been dealing with them. Black people. I've been dealing with them.

These black people. Black civil rights people. Black state legislators. Black city council members. We do know what you're dealing with. Black commission members. No, I said we know what you're dealing with. No, no, no.

I'm dealing with black people who are standing in the way of black success in education and making excuses. That's what they're doing. I'm going to break. You need to go to break, bro. Okay. Loving people, didn't we, Jim? I'm going to break. break, bro. Okay. Loving people, didn't we, Jim? I'm going to break. Y'all go ahead.

Keep going to break. We keep talking. Somebody. You want to support Roland Martin Unfiltered? Be sure to join our Bring the Funk fan club. Every dollar that you give to us supports our daily digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. As Roland Martin Unfiltered, support the Roland Martin Unfil our daily digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. As Roland Martin Unfiltered, support the Roland Martin Unfiltered Daily Digital Show by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com.

Our goal is to get 20,000 of our fans contributing 50 bucks each for the whole year. You can make this possible. RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. All right, y'all. A quarter report released Thursday by the Samuel Dubois Cook Center on Social Equity at Duke University. Man, you talk about this crazy, crazy story here. In Chicago, black families lost between $3 billion to $4 billion in wealth because of predatory housing contracts during the 1950s and 1960s. Between 75% and 95% of homes sold to black families during the 50s and 60s. Between 75% and 95% of homes sold to black families

during the 50s and 60s were sold on contract. The price markup on homes sold on contract was 84%. African-Americans who bought on contract paid on average an additional 587 bucks in current dollars, more a month when they had a conventional mortgage. Joining us right now is Antoine Thompson, Executive Director of the National Association of Real Estate Brokers is Antoine Thompson, executive director of the National Association of Real Estate Brokers. Antoine, this is one of those things that people

don't understand when we talk about wealth gap in 2019. This is one of the reasons. And what happens is white folks want us to talk about it. Y'all stop bringing up slavery. And I keep saying, all right, fine. For the purpose of the conversation, I ain't going to bring up slavery, but you can't ignore what happened during 92 years of Jim Crow. And if you're talking about 50s and 60s, that means there are black people who are alive today who were impacted by this

generational wealth stolen as a result of racism and white supremacy. Antoine? Yes, sir. Go right ahead. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Yes, go ahead. Yeah, first, I want to thank you for having us on the program, Antoine Thompson, National Executive Director, National Association. Antoine, I covered all that go ahead we're talking about yeah i i want to just first say you are right on about the issue of so often not just conservatives but even some progressive whites uh often want african americans to forget uh about not only slavery but jim crow and the fact that from the freedmen's banks all the way up to the

present, there has been this constant effort whenever African Americans try to own land to either give us bad loans, bad mortgages, shut us out of the mortgage market, and in addition to that, come up with different schemes to take property from us from our farms all the way to the present with our homes. So this issue about contract loans is not a new thing and in fact it's actually on the rise again in the United States of America. And so how do we take this report and then speak to folks today? Because we're dealing with, obviously, somebody will say, well, that was 50, 60 years ago. It really doesn't apply. But the reality is we get the home ownership rate today is actually

lower than it was when the Fair Housing Act was passed in 68. Yeah, no, you're absolutely correct. So there are a few things. One is that I think to some of the things we were talking about earlier, we've got to make sure that African-Americans and non-African-American elected leaders are doing their job to make sure that we're educating our community about protecting the land that they do own, making sure that fewer African Americans are losing their property because of bad mortgages, because of DDEF as well, which is another thing that's happening across the country, making sure that people are not getting into these contract loans. That's not an old thing. In fact, that is on the rise in many urban and rural communities today for African-Americans. So we've got to educate our folks. And then we've got to make sure that the laws that are on the books, that they work for us,

because just every 20 years or so, there is another effort to either burn our land, steal our land, give us bad loan products in the 40s, whether you're looking at the contract loans in the 40s, 50s, or 60s, or if you're looking post-Fair Housing Act from 68 to 71, there were a number of bad loan products that were sanctioned by the federal government. They were also given to African Americans. And then we talk about in our current era of the early 2000s to the present, when we talk about subprime mortgages and the fact that many people got bad loans and African Americans disproportionately lost their wealth, lost their homes, destroyed their families, devalued properties and entire neighborhoods. That requires consistent advocacy on behalf of not only our elected officials, but all

community stakeholders. All right. Antoine Thompson, we appreciate it. Thank you so very much with NARAP. Thanks a lot. Thank you. This is, see this, this what amazes me. First of all, this is why I really can't stand any of these cable news networks. I can't, I can't stand any of them. Because when they have any of these conversations, when we talk about resources and wealth things on those lines, I swear none of these people

have ever read a damn book. They've never understood the history of America. And I just sit there and I look, first of all, I can't even watch them anymore because they don't want, not even just dumbed down, just like always being dumb. No, they can't deal with history rolling in. No, they can't deal with history rolling in. No, they can't. What this brother has lifted up here is a history of contract housing, which is a history that goes all the way back. Here's the words that they will not use.

Economic envy. And this is a thing that I've been doing a lot of research on lately, starting with Memphis, Ida B. Wells, looking at Wilmington, looking at Tulsa. And, you know, here's what happened. How dare you Negroes go make money? In Tulsa, the governor appointed a commission to find out why they had the massacre. They want to call it right. It was a massacre.

Yes. The answer was this. Too many N-words had too much money. That was the answer. Too many black people. They did not like us having hotels and bars and restaurants and stores. They like all hell. No, no, no. We got ourselves. We got to torture y'all. So you have some little nonsense of a black guy.

Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. And there is some evidence that they knew each other, by the way. Just a footnote. But anyway, you go to Wilmington where a white woman, her name was Helen Firth, first woman in the United States Senate to itch, actually, and I said itch, said we should lynch 1,000 black men a week to save our women's chastity. And so her brother, Alexander Manley, wrote a piece and said, excuse me about your chastity, but some of y'all be in love with us um and he he broke that down but i'd be well showed that one third of all lynchings had to do with sex the rest were economic one third that had to do with sex half were consensual and as he said when these right with white girls got caught they said rape rape rape leo you said that these that you can't stand these cable networks because they're dumb or

they're not giving information my perspective is that they know history i don't think i think they know history quite well and they play dodgeball well Do you think they know what you mean? To be perfectly honest with you, they ain't that smart. I mean, first of all, no. Look, I've had to sit in those meetings, and I'm like, isn't it y'all read? No, they don't read. No, they literally, the fundamental problem here is what you have is you have white hosts, white producers, white bookers,

who live, white executives who live in a white world and they know nothing about us I mean I'll take look when I was at CNN I was filling in for Kim Brown two months she won't return to leave and so it was rough rough for them because they were like one they thought I was supposed to be like this is a happy just like oh i'm just sitting here i'm gonna sit here just fill in so whatever y'all give me i'm gonna read that didn't happen uh they had one uh one producer claire claire was so hot she claire couldn't have i was way too opinionated on what's gonna go on the show claire just said i ain't working with him. Send me to the Anderson Cooper show while he's filling in because I ain't working with him. Yeah, Claire, I'm going to call your name.

Here's what happened. We were talking about education, and I said, book Jonathan Kozel and book Floyd Flake. Oh, boy. They didn't know who they were. They had no idea who Floyd Flake was was we were in the newsroom i said i said i'm sorry don't none of y'all know member of congress pastor jamaica queens president will before. No. We and our history don't even exist to them. So you bring it up and they go, really? Oh my God. Cleo, go ahead. I'm going to go to you.

Every February is black folks a relatively relevant month. No, no. Three black people in February. Dr. King, Dr. King, and Dr. King. Let me finish. And no sisters. I just named the three black people in February. Dr. King, Dr. King, and Dr. King. Let me finish. And no sisters. Let me finish. I just named the three black people they named. Okay, right. Dr. King, Reverend Dr. King, and Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King.

That's the only three black people who get mentioned. Go ahead. Let me finish. Let me see if we can do this without me being interrupted. Let's see. Let's try. Let's try. Every, and I've literally purposely studied and focused on this phenomenon.

Every February, y'all black people are relatively relevant, and they do a black thing. One year, Anderson Cooper did a study, a recreation of the- 10 o'clock doll study. The doll study. I was there. And the doll study, the terminology they used to describe black people who chose the white doll was that they had a white bias. And one of them, which is a racist white supremacist,

milquetoast way of describing internalized white supremacy myth. But anyway, they talked about the fact that everybody in the study, these are children, all had an anti-black bias and all had white bias. And then they described a horrific phenomena that distorts black self-concept, but they went on to the next thing. They didn't deconstruct it and talk about the casualties. I didn't expect... Because it was only a box of dolls.

I didn't expect it to be... It wasn't about going deeper than mustard on a hot dog. So my point is that there's some things they know, but they don't G-A-F. You know what that means., but they don't G-A-F. You know what that means. I know you know what G-A-F means. They don't give a frying fork chop.

Whatever. And there's things they know about in terms of murder and black people. They know all about these contexts, but they don't really care. No, no, no. Cleo, Cleo, Cleo. When I say, first of all, there are some who have no clue, don't know, and don't care. A lot of us don't know and don't have a clue either. That's very true.

Somebody on YouTube just said that. But I'm going to tell you, Lauren, I'm going to go to you. You mentioned, Julia, I mentioned Tulsa. Tim Madigan, we worked together at Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Tim Madigan grew up in Iowa. The best, I mean, he was like the best writer in the whole newspaper. When he started working on the book on Tulsa Race Riot, he worked on an article, then he started working on the book. And

it was as if he got hit by lightning. No, seriously. He went... When he read the stories of elderly black people kneeling in their homes and white folks busting in, putting guns to the back of their heads and blowing

their brains out tim madigan said oh my god he said now for the first time in my life everything that has happened with black people where there has been outrage i now understand when i interviewed him he said he said i grew up in iowa i ain't seen anybody black until I went to college. He said, and every time something happened, Rodney King, he said, I really didn't understand why black people were upset. Right. He said, but it wasn't until doing the research on the Tulsa race riots. Then he started tearing up.

He said, then I got pissed. He said, I got pissed because I was never taught it. I had no idea. Nobody teaches you this. Nobody teaches in the US. Right. And the reason I'm saying this, because he just passed a bill in Oregon where a little kid pushed it through mandating Holocaust teaching in Oregon schools. I ain't got no problem with that.

But what about the slave schools? But the Holocaust did not happen here. Did not happen here. It did not happen here. It happened in Germany. And that's where we are. Both of you guys are right. Actually, I think I'm leaning more with Cleo here because when I see people on TV

like Jeffrey Lord, I know they know. Oh, no, we know. I know they know. So there's an agenda. The other thing, though, too, is that one of the key components of racism that nobody ever talks about is deleting people and ignoring them and making them invisible. That's right.

So it is conscious. That's right. That I make your life, your history. Oh, yes. Invisible. So to acknowledge it in any way is to give it power. Right. People understand that when they book guests and when they book contributors and the type of contributors they book

that know nothing about what we're talking about. No, no, no. Let's be just real clear. That was a meeting in 2012. And in the meeting they said, we need to book us another Roland Martin. Somebody in the meeting said, we already got

Roland Martin. They said, no, no, no. We need to book another Roland Martin. And people in the room kind of like, oh, right. Because they didn't like black Roland Martin. What they didn't like is you bringing up things that make them uncomfortable, that are factual. Because you know your history. Because I ran. And you're dangerous.

And that's the piece. factual that says you know your history because I read dangerous so I go sit on the air and embrace and love Jeffrey Loeb they want the black the black minstrel that doesn't really know the black and then we just all get along get along with this is people of color crap which is a kumbaya crap which disallows and you saying black black black black black black black black black and so at some level when Lauren said is correct about erasure because you've erased Tulsa like right a lot of you be raised this Wilmington you've erased the first lynching that i'd

be well covered people want to talk about ida b wells as a journalist let's talk about her what she wrote about no no they want to say ivy wells is a great journalist but what did she write about lynching that she wrote about and the lynching of her god daughter's father who had the nerve to open up a grocery store across the street from a white man's store that's why he was lynched i'm saying all of this for the people who are watching because i'm about to go down next story because this ties into it i'm saying all of this because you have an election going on and i'm telling y'all right now might as well get used to it y'all are going to be just going to be what was that what was that movie, The Unbearable Likeness or something?

I don't know. I forgot what it was. I remember that. You about to deal with the unbearable likeness of whiteness. Because you're not going to hear folks on air link the story we just did to present day. You're not going to hear them link these historical issues to what's happening today. You're not going to hear them link these historical issues to what's happening today. You're not going to hear them link it in the military. You're going to hear them link it when it comes to economic policies and housing policies because they refuse to want to deal with it.

And so my challenge to all y'all black folks who's sitting on msnbc or sitting on cnn even the black folks at fox news you got to bring blackness to the table every day black black black you gotta be willing to challenge them and either of y'all some black people and let me also just be real clear cleo said it i ran the chicago defenderender, which was the blackest of newspapers. I changed our masthead to honest, balanced, truthful, unapologetically black. The people who owned the paper were black millionaires from Detroit who literally said, I don't, yeah yeah I really think we should have that on because you know we go to white advertisers what they don't

think and I went you are black paper I think they know you black they literally were afraid of the unapologetically black part we're the only group that does that and that to me that's, is so insane, and what we have to deal with, and so I'm just letting y'all know, you're about to deal with this in 2020, and you're not necessarily going to hear a lot of very specific black questions,

because they don't want to hear it, and the DNC just announced that if they got pressure, they're going to mandate that at least there be a female moderator in every single debate. I want y'all to watch the questions that get asked. And I'm going to tell you right now, even the questions in the black debate,

you might get two real questions, but I'm just saying. Folks, Grammar State University has announced that Nicole Roebuck will lead as the university's new chair of the Department of Music and as first woman director of bands. After Roebuck will lead as the university's new chair of the Department of Music and is first woman director of bands after Roebuck for the uh oversee operations for the world famous Tiger Marching Band so congratulations the first woman band director in the history of Gremlin State University all right and so we certainly want to congratulate

her all right folks we got to go uh we went over our time here but it's always good but you know when you black and you own it, you can make that call. Be sure to support Roller Martin Unfiltered by going to RollerMartinUnfiltered.com. Join our Bring the Funk fan club. Of course, we have the items for sale, copies of my book, the President Barack Obama, my wife's book as well. All books that you buy, we personally autograph. And so if you go to Amazon and buy it, ain't no personal autograph.

You got to go to RollerMartin.com to get the personal autograph. If you are part of our fan club, you have a discount code where you can check out. You get a discount on those books as well. And so we certainly want you to support us. And again, this is critically important. Y'all ain't going to hear this conversation anywhere else. Y'all ain't going to hear the spirited conversation about charter schools and traditional schools anywhere else. So if we don't learn to financially support

our own, y'all heard Julianne talk about Tulsa. Guess what? It was black people who were supporting black hotels and restaurants and ice cream parlors and things along those lines. And so we got to have black folks who will stop saying, oh, we want to see this, this, this, but then we want somebody else to pay for it. I'm just

telling you right now, if you don't support this show, it's not going to exist. And you're going to be back to asking Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow and some other folks on CNN, baby, please, can you please cover us every now and then? On this show, we don't beg

to cover black stories. We do it every single day. Y'all have a great weekend. Ha! Ha! This is an iHeart Podcast.