#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 6.13.19 Manhattan Asst DA & Central Park 5 prosecutor Elizabeth Lederer resigns; Sarah Sanders quits

Episode Date: June 16, 2019

6.13.19 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Manhattan Asst DA and Central Park 5 prosecutor Elizabeth Lederer resigns as Columbia University law professor; White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders to step down; Trayvon Martin's mom Sybrina Fulton reacts to the Dallas School District's apology to the Valedictorian whose speech was cut short; he Black Economic Association to host a 2020 Presidential + Samuel L. Jackson talks Shaft at ABFF - #RolandMartinUnfiltered partner: 420 Real Estate, LLC To invest in 420 Real Estate’s legal Hemp-CBD Crowdfunding Campaign go to http://marijuanastock.org - Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. 2019, Lola Martin here, broadcasted live from Miami, with her annual American Black Film Festival. Got a jam-packed show for you. Elizabeth Lederer, she, of course, the law professor, the one who prosecuted Central Park Five. She has decided not to renew her deal with Columbia University because black students made it clear they did not want her on that campus. Also, Sarah Sanders has resigned from the White House. Chris McAterian, she's going to lead this month.

We'll break this thing down with our panel. Also, we'll talk about Father's Day coming up, the impact between fathers and young girls. Also, folks, we'll show you last night's Renee Carpenter, Jeff, Samuel L. Jackson, Richard Brown, and Yusuf T. Usher, a jam-packed show for you folks. It's time to bring the funk. Roll the button on filter. Let's go. Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for pigs He's rolling with Uncle Roro, y'all It's rolling, Martin

Rolling with Roland now He's funky, he's fresh, he's real The best you know, he's rolling, Martin Now now Hey, folks, our top story, this is Elizabeth Lederer, the woman who was prosecuted in Central Part V. She is stepping down from Columbia University School of Law. She was out there for decades as a lecturer, but because of the massive protest by black students and the release of the Netflix series When They See Us, too much public pressure causing her to say she cannot return. Now, she was a woman who, if you look at that show, had doubts about Linda Farris-Steen and saying that those five individuals committed the crime.

Well, she still moved forward to prosecute that case. Now, years ago, when a documentary by Ken Burns came out, there was also public pressure to get her to step down, but it had no impact. Columbia, though, Columbia Law School, though, did remove a reference to the Central Park 5 from her file. Well, now, way too much pressure being applied to her and applied to Linda Fairstein. Now, remember, Linda Fairstein, the woman who led the sex crimes unit of the Manhattan

District Attorney's Office, she's already lost her book agent, her publisher. She had to resign from two boards as well. And so Ava DuVernay's documentary, sorry, not documentary, actually her series, is leading to huge changes when it comes to individuals there. The individual with the citizenship part five, they, they of course continue to put pressure saying they need to pay for what they did for those young men being incarcerated for all of those years. I want to bring in my panel now to talk about this. First and foremost, Greg Carr, Chair of the Department of African American Studies

at the University. He joins us there in Washington, D.C. Let's say I'm here in Miami. And also Michael Brown, he's the former vice chair, DNC Finance Committee. Greg, I want to go to you first. This is really important because it shows you the power of media. These two women, Elizabeth Lederer and Linda Fairstein, they have made money. They have been celebrated for putting these young men wrongfully in prison. They are now having to pay the price. They are. You know, I'm a little concerned because we live in a country where today it's them. Tomorrow it could be us. The academy is a strange place.

And so when I read the letter from the Black Law Students Association, and shout out to them because people are being proactive. What you see is the university, and they complained six years ago, as you said, and they kind of took something off her bio. But you know, she's working as an adjunct. She's not a tenured member of the faculty. So I mean, you know, there's kind of a gray area there. And so that doesn't concern me as much, and I'm glad to see it. And certainly in response to this popular media surge we see, whether it be Mute R. Kelly and Being R. Kelly or now when they see us. But, you know, at Harvard a few weeks ago, you had a husband and wife who were forced out as deans of Harvard colleges where they were residential deans because the students decided that they didn't like the man because he was a lawyer who was on Harvey Weinstein's defense team. I got a problem with that. These are tenured faculty members of African descent. And so when we swing the sword one way, it's like, yes, a victory for righteousness.

But that sword cuts both ways. And I wonder what this precedent begins to set when something comes out and somebody is forced to resign that we perhaps support. I absolutely agree with that. And Michael, the bottom line is what you are looking at here, you're looking at reality of, again, justice. These two individuals have not had any blowback whatsoever. They both still have their law licenses. And based upon everything that we know, clearly the legal profession has not done anything to them. The city of New York still has not apologized. For the general public, this is the best way they can, in essence, exact revenge and say y'all must pay some price for wrongfully imprisoning,

framing, and setting up these five young brothers. Well, Roland, you know, it's interesting. The professor, who's much more profound than I am, and his answer was very profound. Mine is much simpler. And it reminds me of the segments you have on your show where white people do dumb things and then their consequences and they get fired. This is exactly what you do on your show pretty much weekly. And so from my standpoint, it's like a reparation in some form or fashion. That there has to be some kind of consequence for acting like you acted however many years ago it was.

And so I'm glad that they're starting to lose their things. I certainly understand what the professor is talking about relative to this can come back and get us and that and totally makes complete sense. But in this particular point right now, I'm glad they're getting some justice. And they got paid. So I know they got paid to not as much as probably they should have, but'm glad they're getting some justice. And they got paid. So I know they got paid too, not as much as probably they should have, but at least they got something. And Greg, again, nothing is really being done against him. New York has got to apologize.

Now, I'll see Tamika Mallory and see her social media. But they are now targeting the events because he took the $20,000 in contributions from Linda Faire, Steve, for his reelection. They say anybody who took any money from her or Elizabeth Federer needs to send that money through the chair to give it away. Now that, I think, is more appropriate. I think this is a great lesson in how we can wield political strength. And when it comes to the academy or when it comes to something like that, freedom of speech, I think there may be some issues there. If I were a law student at that time, maybe I say, keep on the faculty. I'm going to take a class and

blow her up in there every day and force her to deal with it. But in the street, meaning dealing with money, dealing with votes, dealing with political formations and associations, I think Tamika and Emma are right on. Let's go out and eviscerate everybody politically and economically. And this is a lesson we learned from the period of Martin Luther King. The most effective weapon in the civil rights movement in many ways was either the boycott or the threat of the economic boycott. That is the Montgomery bus boycott. That shows you we can put that. Yeah, you starve them because I can guarantee you one thing. And this is for sure. They're not going to starve because you've got

these billionaires out here, these right-wing racist billionaires that will write them a check, and that's just like what's going to happen to Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Thanks. Good job for lying. Here's a million dollars. Go sit on the beach for a while. She's not going to be put out of doors because she lost the job, even if they have to take her next book, buy 100,000 copies of it, and put it on the New York Times bestseller list and throw it in the trash. They're going to take care of their own, so it's good that we are pursuing a similar strategy. And again, you spoke of Sarah Huckabee Sanders

and of course Donald Trump today. Now she is stepping down as White House Press Secretary and she's going to be leaving by the end of the month. Just the other day there was a story where she said that she's not like being called a liar. Michael, my line is, she's a liar who works for a liar. And my understanding, and maybe you heard the same thing today,

they're starting to drop hints that they want her to run for governor of Arkansas. Now, I don't know if that's true or not. I don't know if 45 was just trying to drop it to start the conversation for her to run. But wouldn't that be a shame? And I hope whoever the Democratic nominee is absolutely wipes the floor with her and beats her badly. However, it's Arkansas. And obviously the president, sorry, 45, has a lot of support in Arkansas.

So it'll be interesting to see what happens with her political career, if she has one at all. Greg, bottom line is she will not be missed. She consistently lied from that podium. You cannot be trusted. And frankly, you look at this, Sean Spicer has not been able to get much out here. I doubt very seriously that Sarah Sanders has any credibility for anybody to pay her for her opinion. Well, I'd be very surprised if she didn't end up as a paid contributor at Fox or Sinclair. And you, of course, Roland, you know,

as a deeply informed historian, really, historical journalist for sure, you know that the practice of the White House press secretary having briefings goes back to what, the Eisenhower administration? This woman hadn't had a press briefing in three months. And the tragedy is that many in the press and many who consume commercial news entertainment media have been relieved. I think she's a magnificent liar. I think that she fit Donald Trump's casting perfectly from her physical appearance to her disdain and prevarication. I think that fit Trump's worldview. I think he's going to be lost without Sarah Huckabee Sanders sneaking off to

talk to Fox and then walking back to the White House and pausing for 30 seconds to talk to the other reporters. I think he's going to be lost with her disdain for the press, particularly her disdain for black women like April Ryan. And I think that while, you know, she won't be in the White House anymore, we haven't seen her in three months at a press briefing. I think I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see her very shortly on Fox News as a paid propagandist tooling up for the 2020 election. Again, Sarah Huckabee Sanders will be stepping down. So trust me, she will not be missed by a whole lot of us because of what she had to say. And look, at the end of the day, Michael, what you have here is you have a lying administration.

You have an administration that that's what they do on a very consistent basis. They lie. And they're not held to account because they're this so-called base, which I hate hearing about this base. Nixon had a base you know everyone has a base but this particular base is untouchable and it doesn't really matter and they don't hold anybody to account and what senator mcconnell is is part of that whole i guess he's part of the base or the leader of the base because what he's doing running the united states senate is an absolute disgrace but so no one's holding them to account. So it's kind of OK that

these kind of things are happening. It's not going to change. There are 40 percent of people that like him, 40 percent of people that don't. This race in 2020 is about the 20 percent of the people in the middle. Hopefully they'll come to Democratic side. We just have to wait and see. Talking about the race, this race, we have a ton of candidates in two days in South Carolina. It's going to be an economic discussion hosted by the Black Economic Alliance. The focus is going to be on expanding economic opportunity for African Americans. And so we want to talk about that with Dr. Tony Coles, who is co-chair of the Black Economic Alliance. Dr. Coles, are you there?

Okay, so guys, let me know when we get Dr. Coles. I'm going to go to Greg first until we bring him up. How critically is it important, Greg, to have these topic-driven presidential forums as opposed to having these large unwieldy discussions but frankly you can't have any substantive conversation by any one particular issue well you know I think a lot of that's going to depend on the viewers the way they've set these two up these first two having nine on one night and nine on the other night and then mixing up the quote-unquote top tier candidates although how can you tell the tier from the so-called lower tier

candidates it's going to provide an opportunity for folks to engage in a mixing up the quote unquote top tier candidates, although how can you tell the tier from the so-called lower tier candidates, it's going to provide an opportunity for folks to engage in a substantive conversation. It'd be very interesting to see people who are policy walks, who can translate fairly nimbly like Elizabeth Warren, be in conversation with folks who have this broad kind of economic, kind of ideological agenda like Bernie Sanders, and then contrast that with a Kamala

Harris or a Cory Booker. And I think in mixing that up, a lot is going to depend on how people come away from those conversations, how they assess how well they did. Now, some of this stuff is around race, some of it's around gender. And ultimately, you know, I'm still trying to get my mind around someone like Pete Buttigieg being in a conversation with anybody for president of the United States or better or work for that matter. But one thing's for sure, finally, as you come out of this first nine person battle royale, if you ain't got no game, you about to get exposed. So I'm looking forward to this argument in this conversation. Michael, I think it would be interesting, Roland and Professor,

to see how, you know, Elizabeth Warren, for example, is by far the best policy wonk of any one of the folks running. You know, my bias relative to Vice President Biden and Senator Harris. However, it's going to... I don't know if Elizabeth Warren... You're only going to have like that four or five minutes to talk about your issue.

It usually takes her about 20, 25 minutes to lay out her plan. And in this soundbite kind of mentality, you have to really train to get your points out in four or five minutes, knowing that you don't have 20 minutes. And so people may not get it. And so if she gets cut off or tries to figure it out, so I think that's what it'll be interesting to see. And the professor is exactly right. The viewer is going to have to look and see how people come across in that four or five-minute spot.

Well, I think it's interesting. It's all, again, what's going to happen is, so the forum is going to take place on Saturday, hosted by Soledad O'Brien. It's going to air Sunday on BET. Obviously, it'll be an edited version, but it's going to air Sunday on BET. And so we'll see. We'll be, of course, here in Miami for American Black Film Festival.

Then, of course, Sunday is also Father's Day. And so that's one of the things that we'll see what that conversation is like. Now, first of all, all the candidates are not going to be there with these forms. They could not accept all. But there are several candidates who will be in Charleston, South Carolina for the Black Economic Alliance for the presidential town hall. Again, it's going to be hosted by Soledad O'Brien. Jim, I want to talk to you about this here. Virginia Lieutenant Governor

Justin Fairfax has sent a letter, he already has sent a letter to the district attorney in Boston and Raleigh Durham saying that he wants an investigation launched into the sexual assault charges that have been leveled against him by two women. Now, what's interesting about this is that they released that letter. The attorneys for the women who accused him, they came out firing, saying that, well, he doesn't get to actually do that. That's not right or fair.

Look at, I ask you, here's a case where a guy has been accused of forcing one woman to have, forcing her to perform oral sex. Another woman saying that he raped her. And both of those women have yet to go to the DA, even though potential limitations still exist. What do you make of

Justin Fairfax going on the offensive saying, hey, DAs, I want an investigation. I want you to investigate these, because he's saying, if, DAs, I want an investigation. I want you to investigate these, because he's saying, if I did it, criminally prosecute me. If I didn't, I didn't have my name cleared. Is there, Roland, is there another strategy?

Is there another viable strategy for Justin Fairfax? You know, we have the attention span in this society of a fruit fly. strategy is there another viable strategy for Justin Fairfax you know we have the attention span in this society of a fruit fly these were some very serious allegations we know how they hit they came in the immediate wake of Ralph Northen's allegations and we all but have confirmed from what we've read and what people have said and what has been pushed through that Northern his team got together and figured one of the ways to get the heat out of them was to throw Justin Fairfax under the bus with some allegations that they were well aware of during the campaign. And now that Ralph Northam seems to have benefited

from the short attention span of the American population, and Virginia in particular, begun to go on the offensive and rolling out some policy initiatives, here's Justin Fairfax in silence, and here has been virtual silence about the allegations. So is there is there any other strategy for him except to say, hey, wait a minute now. And of course, if he's making this assertion, he's standing firm in the conviction that I did not do anything illegal and that whatever choices I made that were bad or good, this needs to be litigated in the courts. And where are these women? Finally, I would say, you know, in some stories, there aren't any victors.

You got black women. You got a black man. And this is a real problem. I don't even like the idea of people weighing in on this in a way that isn't filtered through the lens of a black community that has to deal with some very serious internal problems and challenges. But as far as I'm concerned, Justin Fairfax is playing the only card he has, which is what? Y'all going to clear my name.

Because believe me, if I want to run for anything else in life, it's going to come up again. So let me get out here now and go on the offensive. And if y'all going to charge me, charge me. And that sister in Massachusetts, the DA, who offered to do the investigation, remember at the very beginning, I think she's more than willing to go along with this. We'll see how this unfolds.

It's fascinating, and it's tragic, and it's complicated, but I don't think he had any other choice. It's interesting. So, again, Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax earlier called for the FBI to investigate. As Greg said, the district attorney in Boston, African-American woman, she said if a complaint is filed by Vanessa Tyson, she would investigate.

The lawyers for Tyson said she was going to meet with the DA. That was back in February. This is June. There still has been no meeting. The other woman, Marilyn Watson, has not met with the Raleigh-Durham district attorney, an African- American woman. Katz sent this letter out, attorneys Deborah Katz and Lisa Banks, attorneys for the best advice, sent a letter out saying that calling what Justin Fairfax is doing is political stunt,

saying that he shows his lack of respect for survivors of sexual violence. Then she says, as a former prosecutor, the attorney governor certainly knows that potential targets of criminal investigations do not get to direct prosecutorial decisions. And so they go on and they say that, you know, criticizing him, that they're not going to deter. He says, he alerts the district attorney

appears intended to do the same in his cruel effort to deny agency to survivors of sexual violence. His suggestion that women are liars unless they press criminal charges against their assailants places an unfair demand on survivors and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the criminal justice system. Pursuing criminal charges is a weighty decision that the vast majority of survivors choose not to make for legitimate reasons. And so there's some other things that are in here. But what's interesting is that at the end of it, they say that Lieutenant Governor Fairfax's letter shows yet again that he is not deserving of his position for power. I have contended to raise this point to Mike, that Vanessa Tyson and Mary Watson and their lawyers say that they will fully cooperate

in an impeachment hearing of Justin Fairfax. Yet, if the statute of limitations is not up, why would they not meet with two black female DAs to say launch a criminal investigation. So they're critical of airfax, but they won't launch an investigation. They won't even file the complaint. So I'm just trying to understand, if you want justice and there's no impeachment hearing, why would you not file a criminal complaint? And what's interesting is obviously an impeachment hearing is a political hearing. So they accuse him of a political stunt, but they won't.

And you can do both. They can say, hey, I won an impeachment hearing and will testify, and I'm heading up to Boston and to Raleigh. Neither of which have happened. The whole thing is very odd. So they want to come into a political arena and make the accusation, but they don't want to go to the legal track to make their accusation. Very odd, very confusing.

I'm sure a lot of folks don't understand it, and that's part of the problem why the pendulum, I think, is starting to switch back. When people get accused, not that they didn't do it. And not me. It doesn't mean you don't believe the women, but that due process. When you have an avenue in a courtroom to have real due process, why don't some folks do it? I understand some folks are scared and don't want to put themselves out there. And we have to have respect for that. But just like you have to have respect for the victim. You have to have respect for the folks that are accused because it may not have happened.

Well, and I think that's where we are. And so we'll see what happens. But clearly, Senator Governor Justin Fairfax is demanding his name be cleared. And so we'll see what the next step is. Folks, first of all, I'm going to go to Britt. When we come back here, we're going to walk down the filter lot for Miami. We're going to talk about Father's Day. You know what?

That day where we don't talk a lot about, oh, we'll spend a long time talking about Mother's Day, not Father's Day, but what is the important relationship between fathers and young girls, their daughters? That's next. Roller Mark Unfiltered. You want to check out Roller Mark Unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roller Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there? Roller Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live live, you'll know. All right, folks, they're back. Marijuana stock dot org

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That's marijuana stock.org. If you want to get in the game, and if you do so, do it now. All right, folks, Father's Day is coming up this weekend on Sunday. And we always talk about, of course, the importance of fathers and their sons, a lot of fathers and their daughters. Joining us is clinical psychologist Dr. Nick Alpert. Dr. Alpert, how are you doing? I am doing well. How are you? I'm doing great. I have my father, got my mother, of course, one brother, three sisters. And so can you talk about how critical is the relationship that exists, a strong bond between a father and daughters? Oh, my goodness. It is so critically important.

It is imperative. Fathers are really for girls, for young women. That's the first man we fall in love with. That is the man who shows us who we are, how beautiful we are, how smart we are, all of the unique qualities that we have. And most importantly, Roland, that is the man that teaches us how men should treat us and how we should relate to men. So it is so incredibly important. And also I think when you talk about how a bad relationship can be damaging.

Look, I've got two nieces. They lived with, I mean, their mother was beaten, assaulted physically and sexually by their father. And they have a bad view of their father, don't want to be around them. And as the godfather, I had to be fiercely protective of them. And I remember when he got out of prison, he wanted to reach out to them. And I asked him, I said, well, are you still in the gang? Are you still selling drugs? And he said, well, no, I'm not.

And I said, he said, I never was. I was like, first of all, dude, you lying to me. And I made it clear. I said, you're not going to spend time with my nieces at all. And I said, because I have to be protective of them. So the flip side is that that could actually have, I mean, that could have a negative effect and take, take girls years to go through and get over and deal with that trauma that was inflicted by that man.

That is absolutely correct. or for a boy is better than having a father who is abusive, who is violent, who has substance abuse, who cannot be available in a healthy and adaptive way. So you are absolutely correct. So what resources would you recommend for a young father uh to help him and guide him through uh this that he that prepares him for how he must cultivate that relationship between with their dog so so you know you, obviously one of the best ways to learn is by seeing, and we learn through modeling, right?

And so when you don't have that, you're at a distinct disadvantage. And so what I would say to any young father who is looking to learn how to be a father or to be a better parent, just sort of writ large, is to find other role models. And we can look for them and find them in myriad places, right, in our churches, in our colleges and universities. We have professors in our own families, right?

We may have grandparents or uncles who are that, who can be role models. Our Black Greek letter fraternities. So I think there are a number of ways. who can be role models, are black weak-letter fraternities. So I think there are a number of ways. There are parenting classes, many communities, and courts, family courts, have these types of classes that can help young African-American men. All right, Dr. Nick Alpert, we certainly appreciate it.

Thank you so very much. Thank you. All right, Greg and Michael, I wanna talk to y'all about this here. It really does piss me off that we spend so much time and energy around Father's Day. Greg,

people could be literally in Australia or Thailand, and they will kill themselves to get home for Mother's Day, but they could be in the same city in the same state Father's Day. Yeah, man, I see them come Thanksgiving. That's true, brother. I mean, you know, Mother's Day was created

in Philadelphia, really. John wanted to make a department store. It was almost like a marketing kind of thing. It kind of emerged. And Father's Day came in many ways as a response to that. But we know in our communities, and I agree with what Dr. Alfred said, you know, black men are used to not, you know, getting all that affection. But then again,

it's probably Father's Night every time a man come home and get that big piece of chicken, like my daddy did for many years. But what Dr. Alfred said, I said, I'm going to lose track of that. I think about the song, what was it, the Winstons, Call Him Father. There's a lot of ways you can be a father. And I know that on Father's Day, I get texts from, like I say, former students. You know, I don't have any biological children. I got a couple of god sons, and I got my nephew, and I know what it means to be an uncle who's there for a male, you know, my nephew.

You get texts, you get calls, and it's kind of an afterthought, but it's almost a running joke in the black community. You know, black man sitting up waiting on getting them calls for real. So, you know, maybe it's a little sad, but maybe we can do something about it. But I don't know. Maybe you get those calls, Roland. It is frankly

offensive, Michael. I'm sorry. That how Father's Day is sort of like a blow-off day. It's no big deal. You know, okay. Fine. Yeah, you know, I'll see you in two or three months. When the reality is fathers matter just as much as mothers.

Well, I tell you, the pressure on males, not just black males, males, to get to the store, get a card, get flowers, make reservation for Mother's Day brunch, which is, again, fine. That's just what kind of if you're raised a certain way, that's just how you were raised and important. But on Father's Day, it's more of an individual thing. You're thinking, what am I going to do with my day? Not is it, I would love to spend time, I have three sons, I would love to spend time with them, and I do. But if I get a call from two of the three, that's a good father's day. Not that they, and then they'll be like, oh man, today's father's day, I need to text dad. So yes, it is absolutely a different priority relative from the Mother's Day to a Father's Day.

And whether that changes or not, I don't know. I remember growing up, my father used to say to us, Mother's Day is every day. Father's Day is just one day. Maybe you get what you want. Maybe you don't. And so that's just how I was raised. I got to push back on that. If Mother's Day is every day, Father's Day is every day.

And I think, and I get it, but I really do, and I know somebody probably said, well, why do they get big deal out of this? Because the problem that I have is we literally have a culture that says daddies don't matter.

In fact, let me tell you something. This actually happened. I was at, we're a national association of black journalists. We're in Chicago at our convention center a number of years ago. So we're sitting at the table. There's about 10 people at the table. And at the table, you know, four lesbians at the table. One of them, Latina, she was talking about how, okay, she was talking about how me and my

partner, me and my wife, we have a kid and we're raising a kid fine. We don't need a male influence. I don't believe in that. There were two sisters who were lesbian who said, hold on now, we disagree.

We know the importance of our fathers. And they were saying that even if we have kids as lesbians there has to be a male influence the dynamic of the conversation was real interesting because these black women saw it totally different in terms of how they feel about this this dynamic i've had this debate even among heterosexual couples or individuals who seem to talk about the importance of a man. But I hear people say, oh, my mama was my daddy. No, she wasn't. Just like we assume that a father can't be empathetic,

that a father can't be loving, that a father can't be compassionate. And so I would never say that a father is a mother and a mother is a father. No, you are who you are. But I think as a society, we literally have created this entire worldview that daddy is optional. No, of course, of course. But I do think that a lot of it has to do with enslavement. I don't think there is such a thing as an American

culture. There are many different cultures in this state we call America. When you look at African people, you see, we went through literally, particularly when the domestic slave trade explodes in the early 19th century. For about 50 years, we went through a process

where breeding became the way that they created new people of African descent in this society. So you didn't know necessarily who your father was, but it had an unintended consequence of creating community mothers and fathers, big mama and them, they weren't necessarily your biological kin. We still see that today.

I mean, I'll give you one quick example. At graduation every year, you know, it's very moving to see men embrace their graduate children, particularly the daughters. And I think, again, Dr. Alfred's research is very important in this regard. When you see these sisters who may not have grown up with their biological father, but here come their uncles and here come their grandfathers. And you see the pride in these men. There's a certain energy when you get a bunch of men in a circle, the same way as when you get a bunch of women. But when you see them come together in those moments of celebration, no one can say that men and fathers are not important.

If they've ever been in a space where you see the interaction of that energy in our communities that were attacked biologically, but then it expanded our definition of mother and father. So no, that's probably why those two sisters pushed back. They know what it means to have somebody who's in the father role that may not be the biological parent. And that's the thing, Michael,

that look, I don't have biological children, but I've raised six of my nieces. I have nine nieces, four nephews. I've raised six of those nine nieces off and on, literally by entire marriage for the last 19 years. And the thing that's interesting, when you talk about that dynamic, when my sister and her two children, one was five, one was two, came to live with us. My wife and I only married about six months. And I was intentional in terms of how we interacted. Now here's what's very interesting. My nieces couldn't stand when we were affectionate

to one another in front of them. And I was like, well first of all, get the hell over to my house. But the reason I was intentional is because one worldview, they saw a black man being physical with their mother. I needed them to see a black man being loving with their mother. I needed them to see a black man being loving with his wife. I needed that to be corrected. And so when I took the job of the Chicago Defender,

it was a hard decision because those four and a half years, five and two, I would be away. And so in and two, I would be awake. And so in the household, it would be my sister, my wife, and then my two nieces. I was serious about the role that male influence and the role that we play. And so that's why for me, it is deeply embedded in my psyche, in my worldview, the value and the importance of that man. And obviously from the perspective of a son, but I also see it in terms of fully accepting

my role as a godfather. If I tell people a godfather does not mean that I'm going to give you birthday gifts and Christmas gifts. It literally means that if the daddy ain't doing his job, I am to step into the gap to serve that same role. And I don't know if it's society or a much smaller part of society within your own home of how the dynamic is and how you're raised relative to affection for men now i rate i was i was raised in a family where the men were very affectionate i mean the day i went off to college my father and i was still kissing each other and hugging each other um and that's just how we were raised. That wasn't abnormal. But when some of my friends would come over and they would see how my father and I interacted, they were like, wow, you guys,

that was like, yeah, that's how, but that's not how they were raised. They were raised in, not that it was wrong, because you can't certainly judge anybody on how they're raised. It's just different. And not, right. And it doesn't make it wrong or right, but I was just raised, we were just very affectionate. So with my kids, who were three sons, but now they're at the age that are like, Dad, please, please, please. But when they were younger, they knew that Dad was going to kiss them goodnight.

They knew when they went off to college I was going to kiss them goodbye. Okay, okay, okay. So Michael, so Michael, so Michael, when your sons say, Dad, please, please, please, what's your response? I don't give a shit. I still grab him, hug him, grab him in the neck, and I give him a kiss on the cheek.

There you go. See, there you go. See, Greg, that's how I roll. All my nieces and nephews know. You walk your ass in the house, I don't speak for my brother or my three sisters. Your ass don't hug me. You don't hug me you gonna greet me well you know and if you don't you getting jacked that's a very that's a very black thing you don't come in house and not speak man that's true i mean that's generally speaking no no no no no you can come

in the house and speak your ass don't come hug me oh let's see that yeah you've taken it to the to the next level now i'll say this i don't you know we didn't do a lot of hug i didn't hug my father a lot in it but i tell you what um my father went to work every day of his life and i watched my father get up four days in the morning every day for years some of my earliest memories as a child in nashville my father getting up whistling washing his face going and then sometime one time we didn't even have a car. He walked to work. And my father, as he became an elder and he transitioned in 2001, 79 years old, my father was the kind of man who didn't have a whole lot of words, but he demonstrated. And his brother lived across the street, my uncle, and they had eight or nine children. So, you know, when you saw these men, the affection they showed

was through their dedication of what they did every day. My father was like that. And last thing I say is, and I really echo what you said about displaying affection in front of children. My father and mother didn't kiss a whole lot in front of us, but you know how we knew that my father loved my mother, my mother loved my father. It was the little things they did to support each other as they worked. And we knew my father got mad. We knew we were in trouble when he would look at us and say, boys, I love your mother. Now, that would usually come after we had done something in the house.

And she said, I'm going to tell your father when he comes home. And he'd come in and say, boys, I love your mother. We knew that we had crossed a line with her that couldn't be uncrossed. But I'm saying there are a lot of ways to show affection and sometimes it's the subtle things that let you know and that's why I go to work every day and ain't nobody gonna outwork me brother just like anybody outwork you because she had a man in the house that showed you what it meant and that was the way in some ways he displayed love and affection because I know Reginald Martin senior was the same kind of man and I

see I see how hard you work and I know a lot of that comes from you seeing that in one of the ways that love and affection was displayed for you and the thing for me is i mean it's like i had hugged this but it's not like it was a lot it's really not like how i do my my nieces and nephews um but for me it's also it's also a sign that i just like sound respect and this is also what you're going to do and in fact uh michael i have uh have a couple of my nieces, the two of his nieces, both in college. And I had one who just graduated. Two of them just graduated. And so one of them, my niece, my niece paid.

So like my grandfather, I saw my grandfather. And different than my cousin or whatever, he would grab one and he would kiss him like 30, 40 times in a row. And so again, seeing that, I actually had done the same thing with a couple of my nieces. So Faye, just right away from high school, was going to

Howard University in the fall. I didn't say anything like, no, no, no, stop. I said, girl, let me explain something to you. Let me explain something to you. I don't care that. She's like, no, no, no, stop. I said, girl, let me explain something to you. Let me explain something to you. I don't care how old you get. I don't care how old you think. I don't care if you're married. You understand your uncle is going to show a level of affection to you.

And not this whole, but I'm older now. And so it's like, no, that's just not how it's going to be. And that's how you, and you know, it's interesting you had that conversation because my niece is 12, and when she was really, really young, we were still very affectionate, we were affectionate family. But then I got to, she got to a certain age, and now I'm wondering, do I need to kind of pare back that affection a little bit so i may be i don't know if i'm overcompensating maybe i need to ask the doctor about if i'm overcompensating right or not but it sounds like maybe i need to have the conversation you had which is hey i don't care how you look

what how old you are who you're dating who you you're going to the prom your uncle sunny is gonna stay up on you and be affectionate with you and maybe I should do that so then there's no confusion and she understands that doctor that makes sense it makes it did make sense I just never thought about how to handle that yeah yeah that makes sense I mean look it should happen and the reason and again I know that people I'm having some internet issues I can't pull up the social media I know people are saying man you're going way too hard on this

no let me tell you something I know a number of brothers whose dad is not here mine is 72 my mom will be 72 in November they're still with me Michael you lost your father

very public way in the plane crash Greg you lost your father and what I say to people is how these brothers miss their fathers which means

you've got to show that love where they're at. I think Greg and I want the doctors to do this. Greg, we've got to get away and I totally understand your point, Greg when we say dad because Chris Ross said in his comment special

dad showed their value just by going to work and doing what they do. But I think for too many of us who are me, we greatly miss our fathers when they're gone. But because of this manhood code, we didn't want to show that affection and how much they meant to us when they were alive. And to me, that's not smart.

No, no, that's real. I mean, I'll give a very quick example. There's a brother who's on faculty at Morehouse College. He taught at Fordham University, City College of New York for a number of years. And for the years when I first met him at Temple University, he was actually on my dissertation committee. His name is Nate Norman.

He retired from Temple and moved to Atlanta and then went right back to work. We all call him Pop. He is known all over the world as Pop. Pop see you the first five minutes, he going to give you a bear hug. There's not a moment. He does this with his sons. He has two sons, including one who swam for the brother when he knew the movie Pride, when they talk about Philadelphia PDR, Department of Recreation.

The reason that Norman moved to Philadelphia is because his son Mike was an Olympic-class swimmer. He was one of the guys who swam for him. And what he demonstrated, to your point, is that I show affection. And one of the reasons that we loved him and love him to this day, and he went to Atlanta and got a whole new crop of young people, these young brothers at Morehouse, is that he's going to put his hands on you. Now, in this society, that can be, that line gets a little blurred. So again, I'd ask too,

Mike, Brother Powell, I'd ask Dr. Albert how we handle this in a society where we're taught now to ask permission and kind of mute. But you have some people, and I think about these men in particular who are affectionate, who not only do that with their biological children, they do that with community children and it creates a safe space. Pop helps everybody and he works and he does all this work and I've never seen anyone in the almost 25 years I've known him that's ever been offended by that and he is consistent with it and I think in this moment, we're in a social moment when I wonder how we protect that kind of affection showing because it can be dicey and I don't know what we do I don't know the answer to that maybe you help us with it I think that I agree I think it's dicey I think that we are living in a time, in a generational space, where people are very

unfortunately having to have difficult conversations with their youth, with their kids, about appropriate touches and inappropriate touches. And I think that it's sad, it saddens me, But I could see how a simple bear hug could be misconstrued. I can see that. And so, yeah, I think things have changed greatly generationally, and that's unfortunate. Let me be real

clear for all y'all watching. I got nine nieces, four nephews. They asses will be getting bear hugs. They will get a bear hug. If I will kiss them on the cheek, I might sit here and give them a noogie on their head. I might do.

I will play with them because I'm telling you my paternal grandfather is gone my maternal grandmother is gone my maternal grandfather I did not know my paternal grandfather I did not know my maternal grandfather I did not know my paternal grandfather

I did not know my dad's grandfather and I can tell you this. I'm lucky to have both of my parents still living. But when you talk to people and mamas and daddies are gone, those are the moments they remember. Those are the moments that they think about. They think about that love, that affection. They think about how they talk to them, how they're with they think they might they might get mad at you then why you

always playing why you always joking one young but when somebody's gone as they miss and I just think that for a lot of us I really and truly believe this we have got to return to a period where daddy's mad we've got to be willing to say it we have to exhibit it. We must apologize for it. We must we must stop this nonsense in major mass media where daddy is inept, knows nothing, can't take care of a kid, don't know how to fix food. And only mothers know how to do that because of those of us who've had fathers who've been that important in our lives, I just think that we make a grand mistake when we marginalize that male figure. And that, to me, is dangerous. We should not marginalize mama. We should not marginalize daddy or that godfather or that uncle if they meant all that to us.

So I just think that's pretty important for us to do. Hey, folks, folks yes you're on the red carpet uh chef aranda sabrina fulton uh and i had a chance to ask her about the group of iranian sister in texas who uh gave the speech that she mentioned uh she mentioned uh traylon martin and tamir rice well dallas independent school that you were talking yesterday they apologized for cutting off her speech here's sabrina fulton last night remarking about that decision to apologize to that young woman. Hey, darling.

How you doing? Good, good, good. Good, good. Hold on, real quick here. I got to ask you this here. We've been covering this story. Dallas Independent School District has apologized to the young woman who mentioned your son and Tamir Rice. They said that she should have

been allowed to give her a speech. Your thoughts about them apologizing to her by cutting her off? No, they definitely should have apologized to her. They should have. And I appreciate them apologizing because they're admitting that they're wrong. And they should have let her finish her speech. I gave her a platform. I let her finish her speech. So on social media, I posted the end of her speech. For me, I was bothered by the principal, who's of Eritrean descent, somehow saying that by her mentioning Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, it's going to incite white folks. I'm like, they need to hear it.

Yes, it's true. It wasn't anything that she was saying wrong. If you listen to the entire speech, they know that she wasn't saying anything wrong. So let our young people speak up. We need that. You also run of office. That's right. Miami-Dade County Commissioner here. When is the election? 2020, August 2020. So why do you want to run? I want to run because I feel like I can be a voice for the people. And so I'm a people person. So I feel like I can give back to my own community. All right. Always good to see you, darling.

Okay, good to see you, too. All right, you take care. Thank you, you too. All right, then. All right, then. So it's great to see Sabrina Fulton there on the red carpet. And we certainly appreciate all that she does. First of all, I want to thank Greg and Mike for being on the show today.

We're going to end the show, folks. Last night from the red carpet, we, of course, broadcast last night, Shaft premiered here at the American Black Film Festival. And we had a chance to catch up with a whole bunch of members of the cast. And so I wanted to have that for you again. And

y'all can stick around because when you listen to I talked to Jesse T. Usher, Jesse T. Usher, as well as talked to Richard Roundstreet about Shaft and black manhood. Y'all don't want to miss this. And so we're going to go ahead and put it in the show. First of all, folks, I'm here in Miami. We've got some more stuff we've got to cover. We've been having some amazing interviews.

Anthony Anderson, Reggie Hutland, all kind of folks we've been talking to. We've got some new interviews tonight that we'll have for you tomorrow as well as all next week as well. Don't forget, folks, please support our Bring the Funk fan club. You give the dollar you give to support this show, to make this show possible. It allows me to do what we do to do here, be able to broadcast remotely, be able to bring you stuff that nobody else is doing. We talk about this all the time, Greg.

Bottom line, there's a lot of people here who are shooting stuff. But look, there's nobody else is doing. We talk about this all the time, Greg. Bottom line, there's a lot of people here who are shooting stuff. But look, there's nobody else broadcasting live. There's nobody else broadcasting live from the red carpet to our audience because we're about showing you life excellence in all ways. That's why we do Roller Martin Unfiltered. So please go to RollerMartinUnfiltered.com. Sign up

today for our Bring the Funk Band Club. You can use the Cash App, PayPal, Square. We got all of that. I want you to support us. So we're going to close the show out right now. Again, here it is. Red Copper Last Night. Shaft.

Directed by Tim Storch. What's up, man? What's going on? I don't know, man. You all good? I'm trying, man. All right. Well, first and foremost, to be here, Shaffer's premiering, but we don't have John here.

It's got to be bittersweet. It is. It hurts my heart, man, because John and I talked. He said, Tim, do your thing. Make sure it's your own. And it's like, that's a little pep on the back. Went out and did it. And I think he would have really loved this,

because we have a little bit of his footage in it. And we used some of his dialogue. I mean, we really gave it like a, you know, a John wink wink. And it hurts my heart that he can't see it. Now, I got to ask you this here. Folks have been losing their mind on my social media pages. They think the trailers have been too funny. And I'm like, y'all, Chef, it was always funny.

So I'm like, why y'all? Folks have been really tripping. Well, that's the thing. Look, we gave it some entertainment. We gave it some humor. But look, we never disrespect Shaq. He's just as cool as he's ever been. It's a lot of ass whooping.

Oh, it's a lot of ass whooping. He takes some people out. So if you're worried about whether it's edgy and Shaq-like, it is. But we also give you, you like a lot of humor. All right. So tell me about Jesse T as the next in line. Jesse T. Usher is the next in line. He doesn't start off where you might think a shaft might start off,

but he gets there in the end, and he'll make everybody proud. And he's such a great addition to this shaft franchise. All right, baby. Always good to see you. Keep doing your business, Doc. Thank you, man. All right, baby, always good to see you. Keep doing your business, Doc. Thank you, man. All right, absolutely. Appreciate it.

How you doing? Hi. You all good? How you doing? She walks up, she's like, hey. Because I know you. You look like people in the grocery store. They look at me and go, hey.

They go, hey. I go, how you doing? I'm doing good. How you doing? I'm doing good. So, first of all, let's talk about this film. A lot of folks are hyped for it. It's amazing.

It's like, this is crazy. So unexpected. Like I knew it was going to be a huge deal, but this is much more than I thought it was going to be. Well, what you also have going on is you got, and a lot of people on social media have been really tripping. They like, they're not happy with the comedy in the trailers. But I keep saying, but if y'all go back and look at the previous chefs,

they were all funny. There were funny lines in the movie. I agree. I mean, there was always that kind of humor. And this is just sort of taking the humor to a different level, which I think is really necessary, and add something completely different to the film.

And it's just funny and fun. So I think there's enough for people to be satisfied with. They're going to really like it. I was on a plane and I was coming here and I had my iPad, the previous shaft. And so when Samuel L. Jackson was beating Mookie or whatever, Malik, whatever, who's in the race, I was laughing. And I know it wasn't a funny scene, but I was cracking up on the plane. So I don't know why people are tripping.

That says a lot about you. I'm just saying. Hashtag team with that ass. I was laughing. Hashtag go for it. Hashtag I get to wheel the bat. So, you know, I'm good. Well, look, we're looking forward to it.

And, of course, you got to work with some great people. Yes, I did. I mean, that's like working with Sam is a dream he's an icon he's a legend and that kind of stuff is what we hope for in this business to get to work with people like him well I got him to play golf with him and so we're so everybody gets to play golf with him come on out grab the club let's go except i don't play golf but i could play golf if i wanted to you can putt no matter drive the cart play the music no i don't putt and i don't drive the car okay but you have to put in golf because when you get to the green

all right that was benny yeah but you got the putt see that tells you how much I know about golf. See? Okay, you come hang with us, but, all right, just play the music. Okay, you got it. I'll do that. Lots of sad side music, blaring. I got 10,000 songs on iPod. We good.

We good. What's good, senior? Looking forward to the movie. Thank you. You'll enjoy it. You'll enjoy it. All right, then. Thanks a lot.

I appreciate it. How's it going, brother? How are you? You all good? Yeah, I'm maintaining. You know, I watch you on the YouTubes. Well, you know, we try to give them a little help. I like your little round table, too. The red bone sister with the glasses, very informative.

Red bone sister with the glasses. Yes, older lady. Oh, Julianne Malveaux. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I tell her that. She going to be hyped. I'm an admirer, man.

She speaks very well, too. Well, man, look, we looking for this. We're going to have you on to talk some stuff. I's going to be hyped. I'm an admirer, man. She speaks very well, too. Well, man, look, we're looking for this. We're going to have you on to talk some stuff. I would love to come on. I'm going to get your information when we go inside. I appreciate you. Real quick, this movie here, there's a lot of testosterone in this movie. Yeah, it is.

But what you're going to get is Shaft. And now you've got three generations of Shaft. They're in your window alone, right? Are there enough women in the movie for all those chaps? I think Regina Hall holds it down for the majority of women. We don't need to see no more except her. All right, then. That's for sure.

Good seeing you. I'm looking forward to it, and then we'll connect a little bit later. All right. Okay. All right, baby. Here we go. I told you. Baby boy, what's up?

What's going on? First of all, how you come out here doing shout, looking like one of the five heartbeats? Yo. I feel like that era is kind of synonymous. You know what I mean? I could just channel that era and be on point. I ain't know whether to say five heartbeats out of any table for four.

Oh, my gosh. Nah, five heartbeats was right. The five heartbeats was the right move. I tried to get your look a little bit. You know what I'm saying? I knew you. She has an ascot. I needed an ascot.

I needed an ascot. I didn't get one. You should have called her, brother. I should have. I knew you got plenty of them for me. I know you have plenty of them for me. Next time. Well, see, I don't wear it down here because, see, I figure I'm wearing a linen.

No, I can wear it when it's hot, but I'm going to hit the linen. Oh, yeah. No, see, you did the right thing. You did the right thing. The pink linen is a good look on you, although the ascot is your classic. Right, right. But I'm going to bring it back out because, see, I sat it down. The folks were expecting it, and I can't have folks expecting it.

You're absolutely right about that. You got to shake them up sometimes. I hit them with the African stuff at Essence Fest last year. They lost their minds. They ain't know what to do. Don't buy it. So maybe what's going on, man richard rowntree uh so uh is he a worthy heir to the shaft mantle wow yes yes he he's got the last baton he's got the

the last leg it's going it's on him now ask you this here, because somebody will be 77 next month. Yet when he walk into the room, all the women will still, I mean, does it make you feel a little inadequate when you like? This is Shaft, right? This is the original Shaft. Absolutely not. It would make me feel less than coming onto this project if that didn't happen. But the fact that it does, it makes me feel even better. This young brother can hold his own.

I'm so proud of him. Thank you. What? Thank you. This is an iHeart Podcast.