#RolandMartinUnfiltered - 8.21 Biden accepts Dem Prez nod; Tom Perez talks 2020; Gerald Horne speaks; Black TV company vs AT&T

Episode Date: August 22, 2020

8.21.20 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Joe Biden accepts the Democratic presidential nomination; DNC Char Tom Perez talks 2020; Author Gerald Horne speaks; Circle City, a minority-owned local television broadcasting company serving Indianapolis takes on AT&T + singer / songwriter Lisa Fischer Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered #RolandMartinUnfiltered Partners: 2020 Census In America, everyone counts. And the 2020 Census is how that great promise is kept. Respond today online, by phone or by mail and help inform hundreds of billions in funding for education, health programs, and more. Shape your future. Start here at www.2020census.gov. #RolandMartinUnfiltered Partner: Ceek Whether you’re a music enthusiast or an ultra-base lover. CEEK’s newly released headphones hear sound above, below and from multiple directions unlike traditional headphones where users only hear sound from left and right speakers. Be the first to own the world's first 4D, 360 Audio Headphones and mobile VR Headset. Check it out on www.ceek.com and use the promo code RMVIP2020 #RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting site covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. 2020 coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Folks, Joe Biden accepts a Democratic nomination for president. Tough words he has for Donald Trump. It is game on. I talk with Tom Perez, chair of the Democratic Party, what they are going to do to specifically appeal to black men. Also on today's show, a black TV station owner in Indianapolis is suing AT&T. I will talk with him. Also, historian Gerald Horne is joining with us.

He will talk about his books on white supremacy and how we are operating now in a third reconstruction. And the great singer Lisa Fisher is in the house. Folks, we have a fabulous show lined up. It's time to bring the funk and roll them up in our filter. Let's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's Uncle Roro, y'all.

It's Rolling Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's rolling, Martel. Martel. All right, folks, the Democratic National Convention, the virtual convention is over. Republicans began on Monday and last night. All right, folks, the Democratic National Convention, the virtual convention is over. Republicans began on Monday and last night. It was former Vice President Joe Biden who took to the stage to make the case in a strong and forceful speech why he why he should be the next president of the United States.

Folks, he made it perfectly clear. Here's a recap of what he had to say. Good evening. Ella Baker, a giant of the civil rights movement, left us with this wisdom. Give people light and they will find the way. Give people light. Those are words for our time. The current president has cloaked American darkness for much too long. Too much anger, too much fear, too much division. No generation ever knows what history will ask of it.

All we can ever know is whether we're ready when that moment arrives. And now history has delivered us to one of the most difficult moments America has ever faced. Four, four historic crises all at the same time. A perfect storm. The worst pandemic in over 100 years. The worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. The most compelling call for racial justice since the 60s. And the undeniable realities and just the accelerating threats of climate change. So the question for us is simple.

Are we ready? This is a life-changing election. This will determine what America is going to look like for a long, long time. Character is on the ballot. Compassion is on the ballot. Decency, science, democracy, they're all on the ballot.

Who we are as a nation, what we stand for, and most importantly, who we want to be. That's all on the ballot. And the choice could not be more clear. No rhetoric is needed. Our economy is in tatters with Black, Latino, Asian American, Native American communities bearing the brunt of it. And after all this time, the president still does not have a plan. Well, I do.

One of the most powerful voices we hear in the country today is from our young people. They're speaking to the inequity and injustice that has grown up in America. Economic injustice, racial injustice, environmental injustice. I hear their voices. If you listen, you can hear them too.

And whether it's the existential threat posed by climate change, the daily fear of being gunned down in school, or the inability to get started in your first job, it will be the work of the next president to restore the promise of America to everyone. And I'm not going to have to do it alone, because I'll have a great vice president at my side. Senator Kamala Harris, she's a powerful voice for this nation. Her story is the American story. She knows about all the obstacles thrown in the way of so many in our country.

Women, black women, black Americans, South Asian Americans, immigrants, the left out and the left behind. Just a week ago yesterday was the third anniversary of the events in Charlottesville. Close your eyes. Remember what you saw on television. Remember seeing those neo-Nazis and Klansmen and white supremacists coming out of fields with lighted torches, veins bulging, spewing the same anti-Semitic bile heard across Europe in the 30s. Remember the violent clash that ensued between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it. And remember what the president said when asked? He said there were, quote, very fine people on both sides.

It was a wake-up call for us as a country and, for me, a call to action. At that moment, I knew I'd have to run because my father taught us that silence was complicity. And I can never remain silent or complicit. One of the most important conversations I've had this entire campaign, it was with someone who was much too young to vote. I met with six-year-old Gianna Floyd the day before her daddy, George Floyd, was laid to rest. She's an incredibly brave little girl.

And I'll never forget it. When I leaned down to speak to her, she looked in my eyes and she said, and I quote, Daddy changed the world. Daddy changed the world. Her words burrowed deep into my heart. Maybe George Floyd murder was a breaking point. Maybe John Lewis is passing the inspiration. But however it's come to be, however it's happened, America's ready, in John's words, to lay down, quote, the heavy burden of hate at last and to end the hard work of rooting out our systemic racism. With passion and purpose, let us begin, you and I together, one nation, under God,

uniting our love for America, united in our love for each other. For love is more powerful than hate. Hope is more powerful than fear. And light is more powerful than dark. This is our moment. This is our mission. years since we declared. All right, folks, I had a technical issue there. And so let me go ahead. And so here's the deal. So that was Joe Biden. Don't know what's happening there with our video. We'll try to get that straight. But one of the things that Democrats are now

focused on, and that is Republicans will be speaking next week. How do they get to the vote out in a COVID-19 world? Well, that was I talked about with Tom Perez, who is the chair of the Democratic National Committee. Here's that conversation. All right, Tom, this was not the week that you were planning for the longest that you thousands were supposed to be in Milwaukee. But coronavirus took care of that. And so how daunting was it to figure out how to do a virtual convention in this COVID-19 world? Well, I agree with you, Roland. This is the most unconventional convention, but these are unconventional times. And I think the key to our success this week has been we saw it coming. We didn't put our head in the sand. And months ago, we made a very conscious decision. We hope for the best. We hope this situation will improve

with coronavirus, but we plan for everything. That's what leadership's about. And so we dramatically increased our budget for the production because we anticipated the possibility that we may need to be substantially virtual. And that planning way back when really served us well. And most importantly, we've got a spectacular team. These folks know what they're doing. The head of our production has produced the Academy Awards multiple times, the DNC Convention multiple times, the Super Bowl halftime show. And so he wasn't daunted by these challenges. Necessity is the parent of ingenuity and innovation. I think we've been able to produce an inspiring convention. And we've been able to introduce our longstanding leaders, Barack Obama,

Michelle Obama, the Clintons and others. But also I think there's an intimacy to what we have done. People have been able to get to meet the unsung heroes, folks who are not household names, and see what they are doing to help build a better America. And so I think it's been an inspiring week. And there's a lot of momentum that we have already had going into this week because of the historic announcement with Kamala. And now this week, and into this week because of the historic announcement with kamala and now this week and she knocked it out of the park and i think we're going to come out of here with some real wind at our back most uh look conventions are are designed to be produced for

television but this one really had to be produced for television uh and so in in a totally different way uh and i think that um that that that also uh presents is it's uh it's very unique challenges in terms of how do you host it you know how do you how do you deal with storytelling uh and one of the things that i've heard obviously from a lot of people this week has been the sheer diversity of voices of color that shows this mosaic that represents the Democratic Party. And it started the first 10 minutes of Monday. You know, when we did the national anthem, people, young people from all 50 states, you saw the rich tapestry of our diversity right from the outset. Look at our hosts. We've had one Latina, one African-American woman, two African-American women, and then Julie Louise Dreyfus. Every element of our convention has highlighted our diversity. I believe our

diversity is the greatest source of our strength. That roll call across America, Roland, I found it to be really inspirational. So many Native American voices that were speaking from their states. It really enabled us and America to see this is what the Democratic Party looks like. And you will see a stark contrast next week in the Republican Party. It is such an extreme party. There is no commitment to diversity. They don't simply oppose diversity. You look at what this president says. The day he walked down the escalator of the Trump Tower. He was immediately denigrating Mexican-Americans. He wants to divide our nation. This has been a week of hope, inclusion and opportunity and optimism.

Obviously, you have there are tough decisions when it comes to who speaks who doesn't There have been folks who've been saying that Julian Castro where where has been his voice Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez should have gotten more time why this person why that person? That is never an easy job. And so Speak to that in terms of folks who are in the room and and how you came to those decisions and putting this whole thing together well in an ordinary convention we have about six hours a day of potential speaking time so you can accommodate a lot of speakers. We have roughly two hours and we want

a keynote every night. We want to make sure Joe Biden has the opportunity tonight. Tonight is Joe Biden's night. Last night was Kamala Harris's night. I think you look at the totality of every single night. It has been remarkable, the diverse array of speakers, the diverse voices. And when I refer to diverse, Roland, I'm not simply talking about racial diversity. We are a party for everyone. Joe Biden has remarkable reach. And we have a number of people who voted for Donald Trump in the past who are voting for Joe Biden now. We want to welcome those people. We have a big tent as a Democratic Party. So I don't think anybody can look at what happened this week and the lineup of speakers and say anything but, wow, what a richly diverse

party and what a rich array of diverse talent was on display. I'm really proud of the choices we've made. There are other people I would have liked to have given more time to, but you got two hours a night and that's the challenge. I spoke for about two minutes and I didn't want to do any more than two minutes because I wanted to make sure we had enough time for everybody else. 74 days until Election Day. But it's really not 74 days because we're going to have folks who are going to be voting early as well. Registration deadlines are coming up as well.

There are some, look, you can have a great convention, but at the end of the day, you've got to win. And when you look at where you have to win, what is your focus? What is your strategy? Normally, people talk about ground game, ground game. Well, it's a little hard to have a ground game when really you're had a virtual convention, but literally a virtual election, a virtual campaign season? Right. Well, 74 days till the weekend is what I say. And you're I want to underscore something you said in your remarks there, Roland, which is the last day to vote is November 3rd. It's not the first day to vote. Voting starts September 14th in Arizona, for instance. And you go to IWillVote.com,

you can find out all the information because you know what? We are working our tails off. Yeah, we don't knock on doors right now because it's not safe. Someone knocked on my door, I'd tell them to go away, quite frankly, because I wouldn't want them there, Roland,

because it's not safe. But we have gotten our virtual clipboards out, and we've been organizing all around this country. And the proof is in the pudding. You look at Florida, Roland, and we've got 600,000 vote by mail advantage. We've been showing people this is how you do it. Register to vote by mail. Make that request. We have that advantage in Florida and Arizona. We have a dramatic advantage in vote by mail out there. We anticipate 80 to 90 percent of the people who vote in Arizona are going to vote by mail. So the votes will be cast long before Election Day. So what we've been doing is reaching out virtually. We email people. We text people. We call people.

That's how we've been organizing. That's how we won a really important Supreme Court race in April in Wisconsin in the middle of a pandemic. We out-organized the other side. Door-knocking is one way to organize, but it's by no means the only way. And we're using every tool in the toolbox to reach out to people to tell them, make a plan. Go to iwillvote.com. Figure out your voter registration status. If you want to vote early, go request that ballot.

If you want to vote in person, figure out where your polling place is. That's what we're doing. We're not going to let Trump steal this election. Republican Party plans on recruiting 50,000 people to be at the polls in 15 states to what they say is to target voter fraud. This is the first election they'll be able to do so after the court ruling. How are you going to counter that? They clearly are going to try to challenge as many Democrat votes as possible. Well, listen, voter suppression on steroids is absolutely their M.O. because Donald Trump can't win on the merits.

That's why he invites Russian interference. That's why he tries to suppress the vote. That's why he tries to undermine the United States Postal Service. It's unconscionable, but it's not a surprise. So we know that. So we have built the most muscular voter protection operation ever. And we're obviously working hand in glove with the Biden campaign. We have a Democratic Party ecosystem. It's not just the DNC and the Biden campaign. It's Fair Fight. It's Eric Holder's group, the Redistricting Commission,

other colleagues and partners in the democratic ecosystem. We're using litigation. We're using organizing. We're using out-and-out education. We're working with local authorities to make sure there are drop boxes in Milwaukee, make sure there are drop boxes in Arizona and Florida, North Carolina. We are working with local officials in enormously, I think, creative ways to make sure that people can exercise their right to vote. But here's the deal. Again, I can't underscore enough. This is what we need to do. Don't be intimidated by Donald Trump's scare tactics. We will have people on the ground as well. And this is what people have to do. Make a plan. Make a plan. Vote early. And don't make your plan on November the 2nd. Make a plan now. Check your voter

registration status. People are going to come out. Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, people are inspired to come out. People say, well, there's not that much excitement. I say, BS. You look at South Carolina in February. Joe Biden outperformed Barack Obama from 2008. There's a ton of excitement on the Democratic side. And we are working our tail off to make sure that people can exercise that right to vote and those votes will be counted. We're

winning cases in places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and elsewhere. And we are building this voter protection infrastructure. We've got 20 people on the ground in Florida doing voter protection. I think we had four four years ago. So we will be ready. But voters also need to be ready and make that plan. You are. We talked about this several a number of times over the last three years or so. And that is there was a nine point gap between black men and black women who voted Democrat in 2012 with Obama and Romney. That swelled to 13 points in 2016 between Trump and Hillary Clinton and the White House they believe that they can get upwards of 20 percent of black

men how and I remember talking with the Hillary Clinton campaign in 16 saying look you know I can't even get your campaign to respond to me for surrogates for black men. How are you in terms of your micro targeting of key groups? How are you going to target black men? How are you going to target Latinos in these critical states to turn out the numbers you need? The reality is Democrats don't win by getting majority of white votes. They don't even get they haven't even gotten more than 40% since 1964. And so how focused are you in terms of spending those dollars and really targeting those key groups to win at the margins? I mean, you're absolutely correct. There are double digit gender disparities with both African-American and Latino voters.

And we have known that for some time because we've been doing the research and we've been making investments. And let me get specifically to what we've been doing with African-American men. We have a range of initiatives. For black men, we have this initiative called Chop It Up. And this has been underway now for over a year.

And it's modeled after something Barack Obama did in 2008, barbershops for Barack. It is a series of very granular, authentic conversations. I just participated in one last week. Michael Bivens, we often have a celebrity surrogate, someone who's a real influencer in the community who comes with us. And these are conversations with black men about what we have to do. And we outline what we're doing. And for me, what they are, are listening sessions to listen to what do we have to do. And if you look at Joe Biden's plan to build back America, it reflects a lot of that listening, Roland, because we haven't paid enough attention all too frequently to these challenges.

And we've learned from the 2016 lesson. And these chop it up sessions have been incredibly impactful. And we're hiring organizers, black men talking to black men, Latino men talking to Latino men through another initiative we have. We have an initiative called Seat at the Table, where we have African-American women who are, we established an ambassador program. We have literally thousands of African-American women in their communities advocating for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. And I think these have been really, really constructive. communities, advocating for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. And I think these have been really, really constructive. I just participated in one maybe four or five days, maybe a week ago, because it wasn't

this week. And I learned so much from them. And I think people come away from them with a sense that this is a really different moment. And the Democratic Party is hearing me because we're investing in the African-American community. And Joe Biden has a real plan to address all of these racial equity issues. And it is criminal justice reform, but it's much more than that. It's about making sure that we're making substantial business investments so that African-American business owners can have a real seat at the table.

Folks understand that we are not simply coming by every 4th of October seeking their vote. We're going to make sure that their vote translates into progress in their community. So that effort continues. And you and I have had that conversation now for three, four years, and I took it to heart. And that's why we've put this infrastructure in place. Young voters, especially young black voters, crucial, critical. And the reality is during the primaries, they were not that excited about Joe Biden or even Kamala Harris. What you hear is that they want to hear far more substantive issues as opposed to older voters. And so same thing. You need those younger voters, significant numbers, more of them than baby boomers. But if they don't turn out in dramatic numbers, it poses a problem. How are you letting your folks know how they need to connect to those voters on the issues reverend

william barber every time we talk he says don't make this about personality don't make it about party make it about the issues and connect the dots so they actually see see how how they how it all works together well and that if you watch uh night three of of the convention, the Wednesday program, I mean, we started out with gun violence. And then we moved to climate change. And these are issues that resonate with young voters. These are issues that resonate with young voters of color. And you look at the voices that were reflected in those presentations. This is all about the senseless violence that has

afflicted way too many people. In the aftermath of George Floyd, I had so many conversations with my colleagues at the DNC and in the state parties, black mothers of 18-year-old sons. And my son, I worry every time he goes out. That's not who we are as a nation. And that is why you see in, again, Joe Biden's plans and Kamala Harris's plans, we are speaking to that community, these communities with very concrete ideas. Joe Biden took on the NRA and defeated them. He was the person who brought us the assault weapons ban. When we win the Senate, as well as the presidency, we will finally be able to make progress in gun violence reduction, progress that has been stymied exclusively by the NRA and these Republicans. When we have the Senate and the White House in the House,

we will be able to make dramatic progress on climate issues and make sure that these issues have a racial justice lens. Because I worked on environmental justice issues and the people of Flint, Michigan and elsewhere. Flint is not an outlier. And Joe Biden understands that we need to invest in these areas. We attract young people by making sure that they understand that the issues they care about most are front and center in our agenda. Last question for you. And that is, you know, we talked about a little bit earlier in terms of what Republicans want to do. Donald Trump is throwing everything at the wall. Is your party fully prepared for the level of viciousness and attacks that are about to escalate over the next 74 days?

I've said numerous times he will do anything to stay in power. Are you prepared for everything that he and the GOP are going to throw at Biden, Harris and the Democratic Party? Are you ready to respond? I know Michelle Obama said, go high, go low. She modified that in her speech. But they are going to do everything to win. And a lot of times Democrats have not responded in kind to do everything to win as well. Well, as I reflect on your question, I can't help but reflect on the convention. And you heard there was a video prior to when Nancy Pelosi came on last night and gave a wonderful speech. And it had a video of her appearance on The Colbert Show.

And she said to him, you know, when they punch us, we need to be prepared to punch back for the children. And I watched that with great interest. I don't go to knife fights with a spoon, Roland. That's not a formula for success. And I understand that when they go low, here's what I say, when they go low, we go vote. And when they go lower, we get 20 people that we know who are eligible to vote and get them out there to vote. That is what we do. I think about John Lewis every single day at this moment. He endured unspeakable brutality in his quest to form a more perfect union. And he said to us, securing the right to vote, getting out there and voting is the most important nonviolent act that

we can undertake to build a more perfect union. And that is what we are going to do. That's why we have built a really muscular voter protection operation. We know these attacks are coming because they've already been coming. And you know what? He's flailing right now. They'll be talking about birtherism next week. And you know what? Let them do that.

Because what you're seeing across America is people want to return to common decency. We know we've got to sprint across the finish line. We know they will lie, they will cheat, they will steal. We will not respond by cheating and stealing and lying. That's not what we're going to do. We will respond by making sure we have every eligible person out there voting. Donald Trump is motivating people, because people across this country want a

return to normalcy and common decency. His tricks were attempted in 2018. That was the caravan distraction. In 2019, he went to Louisiana and Kentucky. The day before those elections, he thought his presence there would carry people in beet red states across the finish line in those governor's races. It didn't work. There were dirty tricks there. They didn't work. They're not going to work this year either, Roland, because we're ready. We're prepared. We don't go to knife fights with a spoon. We make sure we're getting people out there. You're going to see record turnout. I am confident of that. We are organized like never before. Tom Perez, I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us on Roller Martin Unfiltered. Take am confident of that. We are organized like never before.

Tom Perez, I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us on Roller Martin Unfiltered. Take care, my friend. All right, folks, coming up next, I will talk with author, historian, Dr. Gerald Horn, the University of Houston. Folks, he is one of the world's most foremost experts on white supremacy. It's a conversation you do not want to miss. He has written more than 30 books, y'all. We're going to actually talk about four or five of them, weave it all into the conversation. Trust me, you don't want to miss this.

Plus, we also are going to talk with a brother who is suing AT&T. He's a television station owner out of Indianapolis. We're going to chat with him, as well as the great singer, Lisa Fisher. Y'all, stay tuned. We've got a jam-packed show. Roland Martin Unfiltered, back in a moment. As our community comes together

to support the fight against racial injustice, I want to take a second to talk about one thing we can do to ensure our voices are heard. Not tomorrow, but now. Have your voices heard in terms of what kind of future we want by taking the 2020 census today at 2020census.gov? Now folks, let me help you out. The census is a count of everyone living in the country. It happens once every 10 years. It is mandated by the U.S. Constitution. The thing that's important is that the census informs funding, billions of dollars, how they are spent in our communities every single year. I grew up in Clinton Park in Houston, Texas, and we wanted new parks and roads and a senior citizen center.

Well, the census helps inform all of that and where funding goes. It also determines how many seats your state will get in the US House of Representatives. Young black men and young children of color are historically undercounted, which means a potential loss of funding or services that helps our community. Folks, we have the power to change that.

We have the power to help determine where hundreds of billions in federal funding go each year for the next 10 years. Funding that can impact our community, our neighborhoods, and our families and friends. Folks, responses are 100% confidential and can't be shared with your landlord, law enforcement, or any government agency. So please take the 2020 Census today. Shape your future. Start at 2020census.gov. All right, folks.

Welcome back. This whole white supremacy, we have seen this international discussion take place in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd. We've seen the toppling of white supremacist statues. We've seen this happen in other countries as well. My next guest, he's written a number of books on a variety of these subjects. And I'm just going to name some of the books. Gerald Horne is the author of The Counterrevolution of 1776, Slave Resistance and the Origins of the United States. In addition, that's just one of his books. In addition, he's the author of White Supremacy

Confronted, U.S. Imperialism and Anti-Communism Versus the Liberation of Southern Africa from Roads to Mandela. He also is the author of The Rise and Fall of the Associated Negro Press, Claude Barnett's Pan-African News, and The Jim Crow Paradox. Another one of his books is The Dawning of the Apocalypse, The Roots of Slavery, White Supremacy, Settler Colonialism, and Capitalism in the Long 16th Century, and his great book on jazz. Folks, I think you'll love this one here. Jazz and Justice, Racism and the Political Economy of the Music. If I had to name all of your books, Gerald, I wouldn't have any time to do the interview. Glad to have you in Roland Martin Unfiltered.

Thank you for inviting me. So let's just first, first of all, before we even get into the book, just want to get your assessment of the state of this campaign. Democratic convention took place this week. Just want to get your overall thoughts as a historian, as a political science professor, as somebody who studies and lives this stuff every day. Well, I have a mixed opinion. Certainly, I agree with the consensus coming out of the convention that Donald J. Trump must be defeated by all means necessary. But I think that there were

mixed signals coming out of the convention that are disturbing. I mean, why is it that Republicans like John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio, got more time than Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of the party's rising stars. And I was also disturbed by the dearth of focus on foreign policy, particularly during a week that you had the government in Mali that was overthrown in a coup, a direct result of the overthrow of the Libyan regime in 2011, when the weapons in Libya leaked into northern Mali, creating a religious insurgency that has now captured two-thirds of the country. The problem for the Democrats is they oftentimes set foreign policy aside, but the Republicans don't. And then the Democrats get pushed into these wars that gobble up our tax dollars, leaving little to spend on education and health care, purportedly the major Democratic priorities. Well, one of the things when you talk about that, when you talk about, you know, foreign policy on the night that was supposed to be national security night.

I saw this one tweet from Paul Rykoff of IAVA. He said that it really wasn't much attention paid to that. He said, as opposed to, of course, General Colin Powell, he spoke that night. But look, Democrats also are in a position where Republicans, I said this last night on the show, Republicans can be far right or far white, far right. Democrats have all these competing constituencies within the party. And so they're trying to sit here and again, play music to meet all those constituencies, as opposed to what you're going to see next week. It's going to be pretty. It's going to be pretty white next week. Like I said, it's going to be pretty white. It's going to be pretty right and far right. And Democrats constantly are having to deal with this issue. Who are you appealing to? Who is the real base of the Democratic Party?

Well, that is the $64 question, is it not? And part of the problem that your intelligent comment tends to suggest is that what unites the Republican Party base, even though they don't like to admit it publicly, 63 million strong, is that they're involved in a counterrevolution against the changes of the 1960s. They would like to see an overthrow fundamentally of this movement's fruits of victory against Jim Crow. That is to say, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which Chief Justice John Roberts has more or less sworn to gut, which he did in 2013 with the Shelby County case. And I think that that helps to unite the base of the party. But what makes it difficult to attack is that

they don't necessarily admit that publicly, although we all know what the real deal is. Well, and you're absolutely right, because, I mean, look, a lot of people, you know, it was really the Barry Goldwater book that changed the mind of many conservatives. And he really, of course, you know, he opposed the 64 Civil Rights Act. There were a number of people, William Buckley, OK, this Republican intellectual, National Review, they completely reversed their views on civil rights as a result of that. And so when you look at what has happened, the Fairless Society, the attack on civil rights, the attack on feminism, when you look at when it comes to the environment, that's what you have.

Just today, Donald Trump gave a speech where he just touted, hey, if I win, I could potentially appoint five Supreme Court justices. He was just touting that. And I think Senator Chuck Schumer was one of the few Democrats all week who brought up the Supreme Court. I have been yelling and screaming on this show for the longest that, look, they want to put on 35 to 45 year old, mostly white men and white women to be federal judges so they can control the federal judiciary

for the next 40 to 50 years. So it doesn't matter how diverse Congress looks. It doesn't matter that the Black Caucus will likely have 60 members come January. It doesn't matter how many Latinos get elected. If they can control the courts, they control the country. Well, fortunately, what is now being brooded in certain circles within the Democratic Party is the idea that can be

accomplished legislatively of expanding the number of justices under the U.S. Supreme Court. Right now, it's been nine. It's been nine for a number of decades, but that is not constitutionally mandated. And if the Democrats follow through with the other suggestion of getting rid of the filibuster, which basically means that you don't need a 51 to 49 majority in order to pass legislation. With the filibuster, you basically need a 60 to 40 majority in order to pass legislation. I think those two maneuvers, if those can be executed early on, assuming that there is a President Biden sworn in in January 2021, that could go a long way to pushing back this conservatism into the subordinate position where they so rightfully deserve to be placed.

You talked about, in his speech, Joe Biden talked about Charlottesville. He mentioned that. And in one of your books, first of all, I'm going to merge two. The Counter-Revolution of 1776, Slave Resistance and the Orders of the United States of America, this particular book right here. And the other one, White Supremacy Confronted, U.S. Imperialism and Anti-Communism versus the Liberation of South Africa from Rhodes to Mandela. It's amazing when you hear people, they talk and they're like, well, you know, you guys keep bringing up systemic racism. In fact, today, I guess in his speech, you know, Trump said 1619. I'd never heard of 1619. I only heard of 1492, just simply showing

his pure ignorance. That's what we're really dealing with here, Gerald. We're dealing with Americans who are just like Trump, who are wholly ignorant of this nation's history, who they sort of have this one view that has been taught, what I call history as opposed to history, and what folks are now having to confront with Black Lives Matter, what's happening in the streets. They're having to confront, not just Black folks talking about white supremacy, but this new generation of white folks who are like, damn, y'all Black folks been right. There is white supremacy and what we must do to deal with that as a part of American history

embedded in every fabric of American society. Well, I'm afraid to say that the situation is even worse than your perceptive comment tends to suggest. I'm sure you're following the controversy involving QAnon, this harebrained conspiracy theory that suggests that Donald Trump single-handedly is confronting the deep state and other elites, including the Democratic Party, who are involved in pedophilia, who are involved in all manner of ridiculous ideas. And they're sending members of Congress, presumably, to Washington in a few months, and Mr. Trump refuses to condemn them because I think he realizes that he needs every vote that he can get.

But he's embarking on a very dangerous path when you let these extremists into the mainstream. Now, you note that a few moments ago, I mentioned that there was a counter-revolution unfolding against the changes of the 1960s. And I chose that term intentionally, because as the title of my book that you just raised in your hand suggests, there was a counter-revolution that led to the formation of the United States in the first instance. As I detail painstakingly in that book, The Counter-Revolution of 1776, and the run-up to George Washington and his comrades seceding from the British Empire, London, for various reasons, was moving towards the abolition of slavery. If they had allowed, that is to say, if the settlers led by George Washington had allowed

that particular decision to leapfrog the Atlantic, it would have jeopardized the major source of their wealth. We're talking about major slave owners when we talk about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, et al. And then there was the idea that London was getting tired of expending blood and treasure, waging war against Native Americans, and then turning the land over to real estate speculators like George Washington, who may have been the biggest landowner in North America. And as a result of this revulsion against London's policies towards land and labor, the so-called patriots decided to break the law and engage in a bloody armed revolt against the British Empire,

establishing the United States of America. And thus, in 2020, it's no surprise that protesters on the streets of Portland, Oregon, have raised the relatively new slogan with regard to stolen people on stolen land. We are the stolen people, stolen from Africa to work for free for decades and centuries on the land stolen from the Native Americans. Fortunately, this kind of perceptive analysis has not arrived a moment too soon. Part of the issue also is that when you look at the folks who are sitting on these cable networks, frankly, many of them, especially a lot of these hosts, not well read, not understanding how to sort of bring these things all together. When I think about the book,

The Color of Law, when you talk about really where we stand with housing in this country, which goes directly into the issue of wealth, things along those lines. And when we talk about, again, colonialism and white supremacy, you mentioned Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She specifically used that word in the 60 seconds she had when she nominated Senator Bernie Sanders. You have a former Department of Homeland Security official who has said that Donald Trump wanted to trade Puerto Rico for, I think, Greenland or something along those lines. Then when you see him calling African nations shithole countries, sitting here limiting people who are here, sending them back,

whether they are going back to Liber back, whether they are going back to Liberia, whether they're going back to Haiti, going back to all these countries. What you have is an administration who sees themselves as the last line of defense to maintain whiteness. And that's what Stephen Miller is about. That's who Donald Trump is appealing to. Vice President Pence gave an interview on CNN where he was like, I don't know, y'all chasing these shiny, obvious, I don't know who they are. And the anchor was like, so you don't even pay attention to the news? I mean, that's what you're dealing with. So I keep telling people, all these black people who also, well, man, why do you keep saying Biden-Harris? I'm like,

y'all, I am not saying that Biden-Harris are these perfect individuals, but we have a clearly defined white supremacist who is enacting white supremacist policies, and let's not pretend that's not the case. Well, it's striking that you mentioned what you just did, because recall that when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were passed, it was President Lyndon Baines Johnson himself, a man with roots in segregationist Texas, who suggested that the Democratic Party, his party, would be losing the South for years to come and would be losing the white vote for years to come. And that is precisely what has transpired. That is to say that the last time the Democratic Party won a majority of the vote that basically is defined as white was before many in your audience were even born, believe it or not. And one of the ways we were able to countervail that particular advantage was our reliance upon and solidarity with our friends in this international community. Recall that it was just a few weeks ago at the Human Rights Council in Geneva, Switzerland, that the African Union, headquartered in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, filed a motion calling for a commission of inquiry into what they term, quote, systemic racism, unquote, in the United States of America.

This was in the wake of the lynching of George Floyd in Minneapolis on camera May 25th, 2020. Now the State Department played it cool, but beneath the surface and behind the scenes, they were lobbying furiously, issuing threats, twisting arms, and that resolution did not take flight. The tragedy of that entire episode is that I'm not even sure if leaders, even intellectuals in our community, were aware of what was being done on our behalf at the Human Rights Council of the United Nations in Geneva, Switzerland. I hope and I trust that another opportunity like the one in June 2020

will reemerge. And I hope and I trust that when it does reemerge, the Congressional Black Caucus and the NAACP will be on the case and will be able to put maximum pressure on Washington to get its act together with regard to taking aggressive steps to finally root out this pestilence known as systemic racism and white supremacy. There are people who are watching who may have a surface understanding with the depths of white supremacy. One of the other books, Keenan, if you could go ahead and show that graphic, is the dawning of the apocalypse, the roots of slavery, white supremacy, settler colonialism, and capitalism in the long 16th century. The reason that is so important, because what bothers me is that when I get into these arguments

with these ADOS folks, who many of them, for me, are anti-immigrant. When I listen to right now this whole battle, well, Kamala Harris's daddy is Jamaican, mom is Indian, and so she don't really understand our situation, even though she was born in Oakland, daddy left when she was five, and you go through all that sort of stuff along those lines. I keep telling African Americans, stop acting as if we're so different. They just simply got dropped off at a different spot before they came here. And what you try to do in your books is get people to understand white supremacy is not, oh, white supremacy in Africa, white supremacy in South America, white supremacy in Latin America, white supremacy in the Caribbean, or white supremacy in Northern America. You lay out, no, no, no, that's a direct connection, connecting the dots of white supremacy worldwide.

Well, it's unfortunate that that sort of discussion is taking place because it's not helping us move forward. I don't think that people realize that during the time when we were commodities, we were traded like commodities. You could be an Afro-Floridian one day, an Afro-Cuban the next day, and an Afro-Brazilian the very next day. I'm doing research now on your state of Texas. And after Juneteenth, June 19, 1865, despite that date, that date notwithstanding, you had certain Texans who wanted slavery, in the words of Keith Sweat, to make it last forever. And so you had Black people smuggled out of Galveston, Texas to be enslaved in Cuba after June 19, 1865. Just like before June 19, 1865, there was this massive slave trade between the slavery

plantations of Cuba and the slavery plantations of Marshall, Texas, Tyler, Texas, Northeast Texas, Southeast Texas, etc. Likewise, after June 19, 1865, you had slave owners who wanted to be continued slave owners who smuggled Africans out of Galveston as far as Brazil. And so to try to draw up these distinctions today between some who have roots in Jamaica, some who have roots in Florida, some who have roots in Texas, I think it mangles our history. It does violence to our history. It doesn't do justice to our history. It disrupts Black solidarity. It disrupts Pan-African solidarity. And it basically sets us back while we need to move forward. Can you speak to that point you just made? Because in White Supremacy Confronted, and

I think it's chapter eight, in here you linked the fighting and the ending of apartheid to what was happening in Little Rock and how folks there were fully aware what was happening here, what was linkage here of folks understanding that they were fighting the same battle at the same time and were not these separate entities. And, oh, Africans, we can't stand y'all. African-Americans, African-Americans, we can't stand y'all Africans. No, that wasn't the case. That certainly was not the case. And I think sometimes our friends and perhaps even our antagonists, too, lose sight of the numbers. I mean, we all know we're in a hostile environment, and yet roughly we're 40 million people, but perhaps 13 to 15 percent of the population. So how do you move forward given that disadvantageous situation? situation. Well, historically, the way we moved forward was to realize that we arrived in North America, as Jesse Jackson used to say, as a result of a foreign policy called the African Slave

Treaty. And we were able to escape from slavery, not least because of a foreign policy. First of all, the Haitian Revolution, 1791 to 1804, which disrupted the entire system of slavery, creating a general crisis, pressing London, the superpower of that era, to move away from that system because they were afraid they would lose their wealth in neighboring Jamaica, not to mention their lives as well. And then they moved towards abandoning slavery itself in the 1830s under encouragement and pressure from the Haitian revolutionaries, which is one of the reasons why we'll always be in the debt of Haiti forevermore. And then to fast forward to the 20th century, after World War II, you saw that the United States was in a competition with the former Soviet Union for hearts and minds, particularly in resource-rich Africa and the Caribbean. the paragon of human rights virtue, as long as there was U.S. apartheid and U.S. Jim Crow.

And that puts pressure on the United States to then put pressure on Britain, the colonial power, to move out of Ghana, West Africa, by 1957. And when Ghana comes to independence in 1957, as you're going through a desegregation process at Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, President Eisenhower, who quite frankly was no friend of Black people, was under tremendous international pressure to keep these Euro-Americans in Little Rock from massacring and mauling little children with the images broadcast on global television around the world. So he's forced to send troops into Little Rock Central High School to basically alleviate the pressure on those Black children seeking education. The same thing happened in 1962, when there was an attempt to desegregate Ole Miss, University of Mississippi, with James Meredith. So the international situation forever has been our saving grace, and those who neglect that are basically neglecting the lessons of history. And as you were talking, I thought about what you said a little bit earlier in terms of

what these African nations want to do at the United Nations. When I listen to these folk who trash the year of return, what are they doing for us? Why are we spending money in Ghana, in Senegal, in South Africa, what I keep arguing is, as opposed to sitting here hating on those nations, you form alliances that allow for the creation of opportunities there and here. Because I've always said this about Latinos slash Hispanics, that people keep overlooking. What they have that we don't is they have a foreign policy component, meaning you come here and you're Bolivian. You're Bolivian American. You are Peruvian. You are from Mexico. You are from Dominican Republic. I know people might say, well, territory, but folks just follow what I'm trying to get to.

There's a relationship. So even though Dominican Republic, even though Puerto Rico, yes, folks say, oh, no, hold up. I'm Dominican. I'm Puerto Rico. There still is more of a, there's a different connection there than, frankly, if you're African American from Alabama or from Mississippi. And so having that foreign policy component is helpful when you start talking about these issues that are happening in this country. Well, obviously, you hit the nail right on the head. And what it reminds me of is what we lost after South Africa came to independence in 1994. Because I'm old enough, you're old enough to recall the anti-apartheid movement of the

1980s and the 1990s. We oftentimes associate that with Trans Africa and Randall Robinson, now residing, by the way, in the Caribbean. But actually, the anti-apartheid movement was much larger than Trans Africa. There were many local committees, many local organizations as well. Actually, before TransAfrica, the Polaroid Revolutionary Workers.

Exactly. When I interviewed the late Ron Dellums, I interviewed him, he told me when Nelson Mandela died, I had him on the show. It was the Polaroid Revolutionary Hunter, Ken Williams and Carolyn Hunter, who later married Ken, who they were the ones who brought the issue of divestment to the CBC. Dellums said they told us about it. So we always talk about Dellums and Conyers.

Those two brought it to the Congressional Black Caucus. Well, absolutely. And even before the Polaroid workers blessed their hearts, there was the Council on African Affairs engineered by Paul Robeson, the tallest tree in our forest, the late great actor, singer, linguist at all, who formed the Council on African Affairs in 1937, which crusaded into the mid-1950s when it was driven out of business. And so, driven out of business by the U.S. government, by the way, I should add. And so, when South Africa came to independence, I think there was a sort of a sigh of relief, a sigh of exhaustion. It was felt that, okay, our job is done. You saw a lot of those organizations be rolled up. The ties were not necessarily maintained with our friends and comrades in Southern Africa. by this white supremacist, Agent Orange, the Oaf in the Oval Office, who's about to embark on this

equivalent of a Klan clavern next week, taking place virtually online. And the fact that as of today, we cannot say with assurance that he will be defeated on the first Tuesday in November should be chilling and alarming to us all. But it's not too late to try to restore those sorts of global connections. And by the way, they're not only political connections. I think that our folks in the business community should recognize that they too have a stake in this situation. I note that you have before you the book I wrote on the Associated Negro Press, led by Claude Barnett, who of course was an entrepreneur. He was a business person. He was trying to make money. But in terms of disseminating the news, he decided that the better part of wisdom was not only to cover Black communities in the United

States, but to cover Black communities in the Caribbean, to cover Black communities in Africa, et cetera. And he did good and did well, because by doing good, he was able to make connections for himself that proved to be personally profitable. And in fact, he saw his news enterprise as something of a loss leader. It was a way for him to gain interest into the halls of power, into the corridors of power, to gain admittance to meetings with the late great Kwame Nkrumah, the founding father of independent Ghana, for example, in 1957. So whatever segment of our

community that we're discussing, we all have a stake in reviving and resuscitating these global connections that have been to our benefit over the decades and centuries. centuries? Man, we could literally spend five hours going over these books. And I got a couple more questions. And again, folks, we're talking to Dr. Gerald Horne, professor there at University of Houston, in my hometown. And at the end of the interview, I'm gonna show you all five books, y'all. First of all, he's written 30, but I'm going to show you the five that I have in front of me. Gerald, as I'm looking at the comments on YouTube and Facebook and people folks watching, mostly black folks, but I got whites and others who watch my show, people across the world.

What's the greatest takeaway or the greatest takeaway you want people to read this book and get from it? Well, sometimes you write a book in order to write one sentence, but you can't publish a book that only has one sentence. The one sentence that frames this entire book, and it also sheds light on the question that my students at the University of Houston in my course on introduction to African American studies often ask from the minute they walk into the classroom, which is, why is it that Black people have been treated so atrociously and horribly in the United States when purportedly

this is the land of the free and the home of the brave with this sturdy democracy and a bill of rights and all the rest. And what I wrote in that book that you just raised and what I tell my students is that Black people, by several orders of magnitude, did not support their slave owners, so-called, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, who they thought correctly were trying to establish a new country so that they could make sure that slavery would be perpetuated forevermore, and so that they could oust Britain from the leadership of the African slave trade, one of the most profitable enterprises known to humankind, you invest $1 and get $1,700 back, there are those even today who would sell their first board for a 1,700% profit. The United States had become the leader of capturing Africans and bringing them to Cuba

by the 1790s, taking over the leading market, speaking of Brazil, by the 1840s, and since Black Americans opposed that entire process, when you fight a war and lose, which is what our ancestors did, you can expect to be penalized and pulverized forevermore unless and until you can turn the tables, which we began to do when we supported the Haitian Revolution, when we began to do to fast forward to the 20th century when we were in solidarity with Kwame Nkrumah in Ghana and Michael Manley in Jamaica and all of our friends all across the globe. So that is the main takeaway, that A, we have been beaten down so atrociously because we did not support the establishment of a slaveholders republic in 1776, and B, one of the reasons why we were able to escape the noose that was around our neck was through international relationships, international solidarity. What is that one takeaway that you want this audience to really get from white supremacy confronted? It's an adjunct of what I just said, which is that there was an intimate connection between the movement against Jim Crow and the movement against apartheid. There were very close connections. When you had the

Little Rock situation that I just described in Arkansas in 1957, you had solidarity protests in South Africa, even though they were under the gun, under apartheid mismanagement and misrule. Likewise, when you had solidarity on the part of Black Americans after the Sharpeville massacre in South Africa in the spring of 1961, when peaceful protesters were shot down in Sharpeville, South Africa. And so it was like one hand washing the other. We scratched their back, they scratched our back. International solidarity helped to rescue South Africans from apartheid. International solidarity helped to rescue Black Americans from Jim Crow. And what you also touch on and deal with in your book, The Rise and Fall of the Associated Negro Press, that it was

Hitler who was studying Jim Crow. That's right. And applying what America was doing to Black people to Jews in Germany. Well, it's not only that. It's the fact that I regret having to say this, but in some ways, the Black community who read Associated Negro Press dispatches in the 1930s and the 1940s were better informed about domestic and global matters than people today who have access to the internet. Because people today who have access to the internet, they're not necessarily trying to follow what's going on in the world. They're looking at cat videos on YouTube

or the latest scandal involving Kim Kardashian, et cetera. And so I think we really need to rethink that entire concept because it's a shame and a sin that in a low-tech era, in an analog era, people may have been better informed than many of us today living in a digital era, when you can have access at your fingertips to events taking place all over the world. And I should also say, to complicate it even further, at a moment when billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are sending rockets into outer space with the idea, although they don't necessarily admit it, of escaping this trash planet and reestablishing themselves in another planet and leaving us here to fry,

as you saw in Death Valley, California, where there was 130 degree temperature as of a few days ago, the highest temperature ever recorded on planet Earth, which is just a harbinger, I'm afraid to say, of things to come. Folks, again, he's got a ton of books, but I want you to get these five. People always ask me about book club. If you type in

hashtag Roland's Book Club on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, you'll see the books that I mentioned. First up, I want to mention is The Counter-Revolution of 1776, Slave Resistance and the Origins of the United States of America. Trust me, if y'all heard all that Tea Party stuff in Boston, no, no, no, no, no. You really want to read this to get a real understanding. The second, Keenan, you should be showing these books. The second one is White Supremacy Confronted, U.S. Imperialism and Anti-Communism Versus the Liberation of Southern Africa from Rhodes to

Mandela. The next book is The Rise and Fall of the Associated Negro Press, Claude Barnett's Pan-African News, and the Jim Crow Paradox. And then there's also the, let's see, did I skip one? Let's see here. The dawning of the apocalypse. Yeah, the dawning of the apocalypse, the roots of slavery, white supremacy, settler colonialism, and capitalism in the long 16th century. And we did not get to it. So we've got to have you back to talk about jazz, injustice, racism, and the political economy of the music. Because trust me, not much has changed

what you lay out there and then what's happening today when it comes to the music business. Dr. Gerald Horne, it was a pleasure. I certainly appreciate it. I hope folks got a whole lot of knowledge from this. And this is also why, I mean, the reality is

this is the 21st century version of what Claude Bournette has tried to do and Robert Abbott and others, us not waiting for somebody else to give us information. We've been able to put it out to the public for ourselves, for our audience to be able to consume it. Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate it. All right. Thanks so much, folks. Got to go to a break. We come back. We'll talk to a brother, one of the few black owners of a TV Now, I don't know. Robby don't have one on. Now, I don't particularly like the white pocket squares. I don't like even the silk ones.

And so I was reading GQ magazine a number of years ago, and I saw this guy who had this pocket square here, and it looks like a flower. This is called a shibori pocket square. This is how the Japanese manipulate the fabric to create this sort of flower effect. So I'm going to take it out and then place it in my hand so you see what it looks like. I said, man, this is pretty cool. I tracked down, it took me a year to find a company that did it. They did about 47 different

colors. I love them because, again, as men, we don't have many accessories to wear. We don't have many options. This is really a pretty cool pocket skirt. What I love about this here is you saw when it's a little bit As men, we don't have many accessories to wear, so we don't have many options. And so this is really a pretty cool pocket square.

And what I love about this here is you saw when it's in the pocket, you know, it gives you that flower effect like that. But if I wanted to also, unlike other, because if I flip it and turn it over, it actually gives me a different type of texture. And so, therefore, it gives me a different look. So there you go. So if you actually want to get one of these shibori pocket squares, we have them in 47 different colors. All you got to do is go to rolling this martin.com forward slash pocket squares. So it's rolling this martin.com forward slash pocket squares. All you got to do is go to my website and you can actually get this. Now Now for those of you who are members of

our Bring the Funk fan club, there's a discount for you to get our pocket squares. That's why you also got to be a part of our Bring the Funk fan club. And so that's what we want you to do. And so it's pretty cool. So if you want to jazz your look up, you can do that. In addition, y'all see me with some of the feather pocket squares. My sister was a designer. She actually makes these. They're all custom made. So when you also go to the website, you can also order one of the customized Feather Pocket Squares right there at RolandSMartin.com forward slash pocket squares. So please do so.

And, of course, that goes to support the show. And, again, if you're a Bring the Funk fan club member, you get a discount. This is why you should join the fan club. Why should you care about the 2020 Census? Because where there are more people, there are more needs for everything. From health clinics to highways, school programs, and more. That's why an accurate account is crucial. So shape your future and start here at 2020census.gov. All right, folks, I think we're back on Roller Martin Unfiltered. Let's now talk about our next

story. Here we were talking about, of course, the whole issue of economics in this country. Well, my next guest, he's the owner of Circle City. That is a television broadcasting company based out of Indianapolis. And he says that AT&T, he has engaged in a lawsuit with them, filed a lawsuit against them saying that they are not providing him with fees or the right fees. He says because he's African-American. Joining us right now is DeJuan McCoy, an attorney of Bruce Lloyd. Both of you there? DeJuan McCoy is here. Roland, good to be here. Thank you. Okay. All right. So Keenan, let me know if Bruce is there. DeJuan, I'll go ahead and start with you. And so what's the basis of this dispute that you're having with AT&T? And set up first, Circle City, there are very few black people who own TV stations in the country. And so what is Circle City? How many stations do you own? And then the base of the lawsuit. Okay, so thanks, Roland. I've been in ownership game for broadcast TV stations since 2007.

I started off in small markets, San Angelo and Abilene, divested in order to move up to bigger markets. Bought Evansville, some big four affiliates in Evansville in 2015. Bought some more big four affiliates in Lafayette in 2017. In 2019, Byron Allen approached me and wanted to get in the game of broadcasting. So we reached agreement and I divested my television stations from Evansville and Lafayette to Byron Allen. At the same time, I purchased Indianapolis, Indiana, a news station, a former CBS station, WISH and WNDY from a very good broadcaster from Nextar Broadcasting. And I've owned those stations rolling in my hometown of Indianapolis since September 19th, 2019. So I've been in the broadcasting business for over 30 years,

and I am probably the pioneer from a broadcasting standpoint in the new age of broadcasting. And when I say the new age of broadcasting, that's 2006, 2007, when the retransmission world or retransmission consent world really kicked in. So I'm probably, not probably, I'm the grandfather from an African-American standpoint and a minority standpoint in the broadcasting business during the retransmission era. So when we talk about this idea of retransmission, when we talk about it, so explain that to people. Look, I've been covering it for quite some time. We hear local stations and it's like, so wait a minute, what is it companies paying you for local stations? Explain that. Yeah. So, so to be brief in 1992, there's a retransmission act that allow broadcast TV stations to negotiate in, in, uh, with, with

cable providers to rebroadcast their signal within local markets only. It used to be cable channels would snatch our signal over the air for free and just air it on their system. And what we found was people were buying cable to get the local broadcast station. So broadcast stations successfully lobby for retransmission consent. And that is obviously now a significant form of revenue. The reason we lobbied for retransmission consent as a broadcaster was because the preponderance of the viewership on a cable system or a satellite system came from broadcast viewership. So the majority of all viewing

came from local broadcast stations. So if other stations were getting paid and we had the preponderance of the viewership, we said, wait a minute, we have to pay for our content. We produce local news. You should have to pay us too. And it took us a while to get there, but rightfully so, we got there. And that's where we are. That's the retransmission laws that are in place right now. So this battle with AT&T, what's going on there? Why did you file a suit against them? So on retransmission consent, you're supposed to negotiate in good faith. when we purchased a station like what we purchased in Indianapolis that was receiving significant fees from a white company to –

from the MBPDs from a white company, okay? As soon as I bought it with AT&T, the fees immediately stopped. So on a Monday, the white guy owned it and was paid significant fees on a Tuesday for the same exact product or actually better product because I improved it. On a Tuesday, the black guy got zero. So I tried to negotiate really in good faith and I did it as long as I could until I realized that I was being hoodwinked and they were never going to give me fees. So I did everything I could to try not to sue. But when I was able to get to Randall Stevenson and I got a reply via his executive vice president of programming saying what he said, and you can see it in the lawsuit, I realized I was going to have to take it to another level to be treated fairly

and equally as my predecessor. Bruce Lloyd is your attorney. Bruce, give me your perspective on this, because, I mean, look, we covered the Byron Allen lawsuit when he was battling against Comcast, as well as the other companies as well. I know of Plurio Marshall. He filed his lawsuit against Nexstar. We've seen this. We've seen this from other black owners who had to deal with various companies to get what they say is their fair share of resources. Bruce, you're on. Bruce? Bruce? Bruce? Okay, Keenan, let me know what's going on with Bruce. I can't hear him. I can't hear him at all. But I'll ask you the same question, DeJuan. I mean, we've as you know, Roland, we have to fight for everything. Keep in mind, television is not that old, okay?

And television is 1950s, okay? And we know what was going on in the 50s. So we never really got a fair shake in ownership on the inception of television licenses being auctioned off or given away by the government. So once we figured out the game and figured out how to get broadcast stations, we still have to fight for everything that we get to have bigger white companies see it from another perspective or see it from a diverse perspective versus their perspective all the time. If you really study my lawsuit, okay, you read the email that I sent to Mr. Stevenson,

you read the reply from his executive vice president of programming, Rob Thune, our policy, okay, our policy says we don't pay stations like this. And my immediate response was, well, you just did it for the white guy. You just paid the white guy significant fees in Indianapolis, and you charged the customer, and you just told me in an email that you don't do that. Okay. So for me, they hear what they want to hear. And if we don't continue to drip, drip, drip, drip, Roland, I don't think people hear from our perspective ever. And it just takes a while for it to sink into folks. So that's the difficulty with being one or two of anything. You don't have enough voices saying the same thing. And in corporate America, it is the masses that unfortunately manipulate and control things. So if I'm the only one crying wolf, OK, it's hard for me to get attention unless I can file a lawsuit and hopefully force somebody to pay attention to me. Do we have Bruce? Looks like I don't have Bruce there.

Bruce, can you talk? Can you hear Bruce? For some reason, I can't hear Bruce. I'm not sure if you can hear me. So, DeJuan, I'll ask you the final question. So you're filing a lawsuit. You filed a lawsuit. Actually, you filed two lawsuits, correct? Yeah, so I filed two. The first one was the 1981 case, which was a discrimination case because I felt like they discriminated against me. And here's the irony behind it. We asked them for a comment. All the media publications, when I filed my lawsuit, contacted AT&T and said, do you have a reply? Typically, companies say, hey, we're going to we disagree. We're going to fight this vigorously.

Instead, they attacked me. They created and lied about what the real situation was. And when I read it, I said to myself, wait a minute, they're lying and they're not stating all the facts. And that's defamation. They're trying to ruin my image in my hometown where I run my business, where I'm friendly with community leaders and I'm trying to be involved in the community and they're trying to make me appear to be the bad guy when they lied and said, I'm asking for more than these stations ever what these stations get paid. Simply put, I asked for the exact same that the previous owner had.

OK, and they're making this public image of me being the bad guy. And I don't think that's fair. And I believe in America, when you say things that are untrue about people and it hurts their character or damages their character, you got a right to file something on. All right then. Well, we certainly appreciate you joining us to give us your perspective. DeJuan McCoy, surely keep us abreast of what happens with this lawsuit in the future. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for having me. DeJuan, thanks a bunch. And sorry, we could not get Bruce Lloyd up with audio issues there. But we certainly thanks a lot. Folks, I want to as we get ready to go to our next guest, Lisa Fisher.

I really think it's important. For all of you watching to understand why when you see that interview with Gerald Horn and when you see that particular interview there with DeJuan, when you hear me talk about no African-Americans ever running a Hollywood studio. No African-Americans running a major broadcasting network. The reason those things are important is because what we are dealing with, folks, is the control of information. The greatest export in America is media. It's movies. It's images.

It's those things. And when you talk about how do you control the images, how do you control what people think? I've told y'all this numerous times. When there's a coup anywhere in the world, the first thing they get control of are the guns. The second thing they get control of are the media. Just fact. That's what they do. And so the reason these things matter, the reason ownership matters, owning TV stations and radio stations and being in control of media is because then you're able to affect people and what they know and what they don't know, what they hear, what they don't hear. And that's why this show is important. That's why this show matters. The show matters because we are trying to empower our listeners. We're trying to empower our listeners and our viewers with information. And we're going to continue to do so. But I need you to understand

why we keep doing this, because what you don't know, you don't know. And that's why we have to continue to do this. Kenan, if you have this ready, y'all, that was a tribute. We're going to play this and then get Lisa Fisher on. But that was a tribute last night at the DNC to the late Congressman John Lewis. Kenan, if you have that video, go ahead and play it. There was something deep down within me, moving me, that I could no longer be satisfied or go along with an evil sister.

Life was extremely dangerous when we were growing up. John Lewis had the respect of everybody because he was the one who demonstrated the most courage. He'd been beaten and knocked down and get up and go to find another battle. John was focused on ending voter suppression. And it wasn't that he was a great orator. It's that he was a great spirit. The power of spirituality and humility,

and the willingness to suffer rather than to inflict suffering. One of the things that John has taught us is that you may have to sacrifice, but if you're sacrificing for a cause, something bigger than you, bigger than you, and you really believe in it, then you will have people following you. We do not get meaningful legislation out of this Congress. We will march through the South,

through the streets of Jackson, through the streets of Danville, through the streets of Cambridge, through the streets of Jackson, to the streets of Danville, to the streets of Cambridge, to the streets of Birmingham. I think he is the singular figure that has tried to carry out the work of our nonviolent campaigns into the halls of Congress. From day one, John Lewis was a role model

for the members of Congress, whether they were freshmen or here a long time, because he brought with him a kind of heft, a weightiness of purpose. I got arrested a few times during the 60s. 40 times. And since I've been in Congress, another five times. The means by which we struggle must be consistent with the end we seek. Someone who has navigated thorny issues of policy, not by castigating,

but so encouraging people to be better than they think they can be. Today, we are considering a fair housing measure which protects our nation's minorities, but it protects the needs of those with disabilities and families with children. How long do we have to wait before we decide to ban assault weapons? We have another opportunity to bring more of our citizens into political participation. I have on my marching shoes. That's right!

I'm fired up! I'm ready to march! Ready to fight! And all of these decades later, while he and others of his generation achieved much, we're still fighting against police brutality and fighting for our voting rights. And so we best honor him by continuing to fight

the good fights that he fought, by staying in good trouble. Together Together Through the thunder and the rain Together All the struggle and the pain Together Can't you see we're all the same? Our freedom can't wait another day. So together let's fight.

Fight. Fight for what's right. Fight for what's right. No matter how long. Long. Or how dark the night. We will create a beloved community. We will redeem the soul of America.

As a nation and as a people, we will get there. Climb to the mountaintop. And one day we'll win together. All right, folks, welcome back to Roland Martin Unfiltered. Man, a powerful and moving tribute there to Congressman John Lewis at the Democratic National Convention's virtual convention last night. All right. My next guest. So many of y'all have heard her voice, even if you did not even realize she was singing. She has been. I don't even like saying she sung backup. I don't want to call her a backup singer. I'm going to call her a complimentary

singer. I'm going to call her a singing partner. Of course, some of you must love the song How Can I Ease the Pain? I've always wanted to talk to her, always wanted to interview her. One day, I was on the Tom Jordan Morning Show.

She called in. I had just finished my segment, and I was still on the line, and she was talking, and I was like, damn, I didn't get a chance to ask Lisa Fisher any questions or couldn't even say hi. Well, I got my own show, so now I can.

Lisa Fisher, how you doing? I am so happy to see you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. I can hear you. How are things going for you today? Today is good. I have to go day by day. I was just talking with someone about, you know, the beginning of COVID and just the death and mourning of what was versus not knowing what the future is going to hold and getting comfortable with the idea of really walking in faith, you know? So yeah, I'm good today. So everybody who's watching, so understand, so how did we meet? We actually met through Instagram.

So I had no idea Lisa was following me on Instagram. And y'all know I love music, and I'll sit here. I came up with Club Brown Liquor, and I don't even drink. And I came up with that because I like playing old-school music and music folks have never heard of. And all of a sudden, Lisa's in my mention. She's commenting, and I was like, oh, my God, wow. I was like, I got gotta get you on the show.

And so we actually connect through her thing, which is music. Man, I tell you, I was listening to DJ Nice that particular evening. And then he parlayed, he spoke about you. And I was like, I didn't know that you even played music i was like i gotta check this out so i go and it had to be i don't know two three in the morning yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what it was some stuff that i had never heard before and i was just like you were just blowing my mind in such a beautiful caring uh intelligent, naughty way.

It was just, it was beautiful. It was just, it was everything I needed at two, three in the morning. Any hour, actually. I could listen to Brown Liquor anytime. See, the thing that I, and I said this the other night when I was on. So y'all, last weekend, Lisa was like,

look, I need you to do Club Brown Liquor. So I did it Friday night. And then she, y'all, wasn't even there. So she's like, oh, my God, I missed it. So I said, okay, fine, I did it again Saturday night. I think I came back Sunday night. I was in the mood for playing music. And what I tell people all the time is just the thing about music is there is no mood that you are in that a song can't not speak to or you relate with. And music also has no language boundaries in that even if you're playing a salsa song and you have

no idea what the hell they're saying, the music can actually move you in a certain way. Yes, yes. It's so, you know, when you think rhythms and melodies and harmonies and, you know, having a story is great too, but there's something that happens in the music when it's not using words. It's a vibration, a sound, it's a heartbeat. It's like being in the womb. It's like, you know, you're a baby.

You don't know what's happening. You don't know words. You know energy. You know if your mother's upset, perhaps, by the tone in her voice. You know, so it's like I always tell people, like, when I'm on the phone with people, I can kind of tell if I need to be talking to them or not according to the melody in their voice. You know? I need to be talking to them or not according to the melody in their voice. Because, you know, you get somebody on the phone, a business, and they go, can I help you? And you know they mean it. Or you get somebody that goes, can I help you?

And you're like, yeah, what? Like, yeah, what? Thank you. Like, what you want? Why you calling? Or you go order some what you want? Why you calling? Or you go order some food. May I take your order? I'm just like,

really? Really? Right. You're like, damn, is it that rough? Really? Well, you know, I guess these days especially, it's extra special. It's extra special. It's extra rough. So for you, where did you start?

Where did you start singing? Oh, my God. I remember singing from when I was in kindergarten, from when I was really little, because my parents sang and, you know, church singing and in school, anywhere I could. It just, it was my friend and my confidant and my escapism. Singing was a savior for me and a connection. Now, when you're one of those kids where your parents like, come on, Lisa, come on, sing, baby. Sing for the family.

Come on, go on, sing a song. So you had to sing on demand. Yeah, I did. And I used to hate that. I don't know why. It was just like, come on, baby. I think I was shy. Even though I enjoyed it, I was kind of shy back then.

So it was kind of, ugh. I guess they were prepping me for my life now, but I was shy, even though I enjoyed it, I was kind of shy back then. So it was kind of, I guess they were prepping me for my life now, but I was freaked out as a kid. I'd be like, I don't wanna. So you sing, so you grow up. And so what then happens when you start singing professionally? What happens there?

How did that all begin? I started, I went to music and art high school. Then I went to Queens College for a couple of years. I studied classical music. Then I dropped out because I really didn't have the money to finish school. And I started working at clubs. Long story short, I met Luther Vandross at an audition. He was auditioning a new singer because Tawatha Agee from M2Ming had the song

called Juicy Fruit and they were getting ready to go on tour. And so I auditioned for him, God, I want to say it was 82 or 83. So it started with Luther and he was just such a great teacher. I just, his eye for detail from the music to the production to the writing to doing the background sessions to putting on a show to creating the outfits for each person. You know, no one wore the same exact thing, but there was always a theme, always a theme because he loved his audience so much. So it started there. And because of his management, there was a, it was a live enterprise since Danny Marcus was his manager. And so he took me on and got me a record deal at Elektra. And then I got

together with Narnia Michael Walden, who you know. And then we wrote How Can I Use the Pain? And I just got blessed, lucky, all of it. I just was grateful for the experience. So you sung with Luther, the Rolling Stones. I mean, anybody who's seen 20 Feet From Stardom, I mean, look, folks love you. I mean, you're like the singing muse. I mean, these folks, they want you back on that microphone.

Oh, I have to tell you this. So one of the young ladies that is also in 20 Feet from Stardom named Janice Pendarvis, who sang with Sting, loves you to pieces and teaches at a college, at two colleges, teaches music. And we were just talking about you. She says, you going on Roland Martin today? She was so excited for me.

It speaks to how close the singer's community is. We just love each other and support each other so much. Well, we got to get on the phone so I can say hello to her. So we can certainly work that thing out. You mentioned Luther. You mentioned how he was like involved in everything. I never got a chance to interview Luther. Never got a chance to interview Luther, never got a chance to meet him, but all the interviews I've done,

folks have talked about how he was an absolute perfectionist. Absolutely. And was so into giving his audience excellence. You know, the gowns and the money that he spent on clothes because it just had a different weight, a different feeling it meant something i mean he didn't go on stage with anything fake do you know what i mean he had

all his stuff would see the platinum platinum and diamonds you know and just everything had to be of quality and something about that especially that time of my life made me feel loved and special and uh cherished you know and i think having that energy when uh you're working with someone really pours out into the audience you know yeah he was really it was very particular in a good way. Your album was called So Intense. Wins the Grammy. Folks just, look, the hit song on it. Anybody else would have said, hey,

Luther, appreciate it, dog. I'm going to do my own thing. But you didn't. It was my first record, and I think the mentality back then was, on a first record, you really should not tour until you have at least two records and enough material to actually tour. So I was working on the second record. And there was a lot going on. Sound scan was happening where they were trying to reconfigure

how they were counting record sales, how they were tabulating them. And I got caught up in that. The person that signed me to Elektra left. Elektra now becomes Warner Elektra Atlantic, WEA. So there was a lot of upheaval, a lot of change. So I'm working on the second record, and I just can't seem to get it together. Sylvia Rowan was wonderful. She was trying her best to help me figure it all out. And I just, I don't know, I just felt like it was all over the place. Long story short, I ended up leaving Elektra to sign with a new company.

And then the new company changed their mind. So I had no deal. At that point, I was like, hmm, I think I'm just going to go back to background singing. I feel really comfortable in that because I don't know what just happened here you know I just felt confused and hurt and I was just like is it my age am I what is it what's wrong with me Luther never made me feel like what's wrong with me and I I grow better in an environment that's nurturing i just it's healthier for my mind and my spirit uh and i just didn't feel nurtured uh in that environment it was

a bit much for me so i sang background for the longest time and enjoyed it a lot of a lot of a lot of other people would have been, would have said, damn that. I'm going to fight through this thing. I got to get mine. I want to be out front. I think about that scene from the movie Get On Up where Macy was talking to Bobby. He was like, Bobby, you know, man, what you doing?

And Bobby said, no, bro. From the moment I met James, he said, James was meant to be out there. He said, no, bro, from the moment I met James, he said, James, James was meant to be out there. He said, didn't Matt? He said, yeah, I could sing, but James meant to be out there. And so many other people would have forced it, would have just said no. And so is it that you were still ambitious, but you were also content? What I mean by that is that even if you were ambitious, that if it happened, it happened,

but you were content with your life to the point that if it didn't happen, I'm still happy. I think it's the latter. And when the record deal happened, it wasn't something I was looking for. It was a gift of grace. I was, any opportunity for me to sing is a blessing. I was just singing. And so I was just like, okay, let's, this is the path you're given. Let's go down this path. And then, so once that door closed with the record companies, I thought it was a sign that I should step away. And in a weird way, now that I'm, you know, it's 30 years now, but now that I'm older, I feel like I have a lot more to say now, that I'm a lot more full-bodied in every way, emotionally and spiritually. And I think back then, I felt more like a feather in the wind. You know, I was just a little unsure of my purpose. I knew that I loved to sing, but now I feel like I really am seated

in my purpose. Was it also that you had not gone through a lot? I mean, I think back to what Aretha Franklin has said, was she said what Gladys Knight was so many other singers who said no babe you got to go through some stuff because what you go through then comes out in your music I think that is so true I so believe that I think my trials and tribulations happened earlier in my life. So, you know, unless my mother at a young age, my parents divorced, I wasn't sure where I was living. I was kind of all over the place. I was constantly being tested. And so I felt like I had gone through enough and I had enough life experience to talk about, but because I was so focused in on trying to figure out where am I going that I needed to kind of leave

all the hurt behind me and just clean the slate, clean the slate and figure out what's coming. You know. There are people there are folks who don't really understand they don't really understand the music business. There are people who believe that it's all about who is the headliner. But I sort of mind folks just like in movies.

You know, we look at Denzel or Sam Jackson, and I was talking to David Talbert, and he said, man, what people don't realize is folks who are on the crew, hell, they might do four, five, six movies in a year. They're going from project to project. When you are an in-demand vocal singer, backup singer, session singer, you can be extremely busy, like it's damn near nine to five with the folks who are calling. Have you had that level

of experience where you're going from here to here to here, and you've had to tell some people, look, y'all, I appreciate it, but I'm tired. I can't do it. There are times when I'm really exhausted because I don't like coming in raggedy because when it's on record, it's raggedy forever. You know what I mean? I don't want to be like,

ooh, I shouldn't have done that session. You know, I can't do it. I can't do it. It's not cool, not good session. You know, I can't do it. I can't do it. It's not cool. Not good karma. You know what I mean? It's just not cool. Yeah.

I love you. The thing that Kirk Whalum is my favorite jazz artist. Kirk Whalum is my favorite jazz artist. Yes. And Kirk and I have talked about this as well. When we talk about music, and that's somebody, again, who played in band in elementary school and middle school and in high school as well, that when you talk about music between singer, band, backup singers, drummer, keyboardist. I mean, you really have to have a right fit. Have you been in situations where you said, you stepped into it, you just

used the word karma. You stepped in and you said, you know what, this ain't a fit. Financially, it could have been great, but you just said, this ain't a fit. Financially, it could have been great, but you just said this ain't a fit. I got to bounce. Whatever. There was one time where I was in an environment where I was working for someone and their energy, their whole vibe was just so ugly.

And I was grateful because it was a one-off. It wasn't a tour. I didn't have to live with this person. I got my check and I bounced. But I thought to myself, if that call ever comes in again, that's a call I'm not gonna take. You know, it's just not. I'm not gonna name this particular singer.

I'm not gonna name these two singers. I'll tell you offline. But they had a hit song and I interviewed one of these singers. I'm not even going to give you genders. I interviewed one of these singers and I was just talking about this song and how it was amazing and folks love it. And this singer said, and I was like, will there be another?

And this singer said, we will never sing together again. Okay. Now I'm talking about a hit song. Okay. That people love. And they were like, no, I will not sing with that person again. And then I was talking to a couple of other artists who are jazz artists and they were like, yeah, yeah, I'm not.

I'm not going to do anything with that person. And I was like, damn! I'm like, they got to be hell on wheels! Well, you know, it's interesting. I look at it like And I was like, damn, they got to be hell on wheels. Well, you know, it's interesting. I look at it like a pair of really beautiful party shoes in a window. And you go and you're like, I want to try on that pair. And you try them on and you party for one night and you have blisters the next day. Those shoes are going to sit in the closet and you're going to pass some shoes on to somebody else like Cinderella.

Here, does it fit? You know, certain certain people certain energies are like a good fit you know other ones you try it and even though you know on the outside everything felt great to everyone else it's about how you feel it's about that yeah how interesting I respect that though yeah no it was it was trust me I tell y'all lying you probably gonna be like yeah I heard that, though. Yeah, no, it was. It was. Trust me, I tell you offline, you probably gonna be like, yeah, I heard that, too. I heard that one, too. I love asking. That's the question I love asking all artists is the reason I like old school artists because they aren't fearful. They aren't fearful of that. They had to grow up to compete.

When I when I read the book Dream Boogie on Sam Cook, how the gospel groups would go at it. They'd be like, yeah, yeah, we're going to kick y'all ass when we go out there tonight. Don't worry. They're like, yeah, we're going to take all the women. Now, granted, they were all singing gospel songs, but that was this competition between the groups. And then, of course, when you read

when I, of course, Nelson George's book on Motown and Gerald Palsner's book on Motown and some of the others and how Marvin Gaye was hot, that he wasn't closing, but they were smoking him, were killing it. And it was like, yo, whoever the hottest, they go last. That's how it is. And I asked Eddie LaVert this once.

I said, I asked them, I asked all these groups, and I said, was there a particular group or act? He was like, yeah. He said, we were supposed to do a tour with Luther. And he said, we did like a little mini tour. He said, and man, we were in Austin, Texas. He said, and we got

in that ass. He said, that was no tour. And then, of course, we all heard about Anita Baker and Luther Vandross. But this is the question for you. Name an artist who you would love to have a sing-off against because that artist brings the best out in you, and it will be this great.

So let's say we've got the versus battle but let's say it's real is there an artist who you would love not compete against but who you would love to match that thing with wow um there's so many people that I love. And because of my church upbringing and my background singing mentality, I was the chick in the choir. I was not the lead singer in the church, you know, and everybody, are the dissonances in the harmonies and being able to move in that flow. I just I love the opportunity to sing with everyone I the people who I love are God there's an artist named Laura Mvula who I love absolutely door it's another woman named Concha Bwika who I love God I would love to sing, speak with, I don't know, someone like Cardi B or any, you know, any with rhythms and even speaking to me is melodic. Do you know what I mean?

So I think it's more about doing this. Does that make sense? I know that sounds a little crazy. No. Yeah. But you're a music guy know that sounds a little crazy. No. But you're a music guy, so you get it. I get it. That's the beauty of it. And the thing is,

you didn't name... Somebody's probably watching going, she didn't name anybody I know other than Cardi B. But that's also the point because, again, it's somebody may not have heard of and then all of a sudden somebody's like, yo, I might want to go check that person out. I just believe that when you're in this space, if you are – I'm a public speaker, and I saw this tweet the other day.

Somebody said, oh, my God, as a public speaker, I would hate to have to have to give a speech after Barack Obama. And I was like, not me. I'm just being serious. I think for me, for me, when you're doing something, when somebody else is bringing it, and somebody else is like, you're like, okay, I'm about to go deep. Okay, all right. The same way groups, when B.B. King died, Lionel Richie

told me this great story. He said that they were in D.C., and the Commodores were hot, Earth, Wind, and Fire was hot, and they were all trying to figure out who was going to open and who was going to close. So they're sitting here arguing,

and B.B. said, hey guys, he said, here's the deal. I can catch me an early flight back to Memphis, so why don't we do this here? I'll go ahead and open, and then y'all can sell that thing out. And he said, so BB, he rolled out his little amp

out there. Lionel Richards said he went out there and just destroyed that stage. He said, when BB got done, we were all arguing, not who was going to close, but who was going, they were all, they were trying to really close

because they didn't want to have to follow what Bebe just did. And that to me was great when somebody else can bring that thing out in you where you say, okay, I'm about to go to another level with it. Yeah, I'm not that girl. I'm not that girl.

I love watching it though, but I've never really been in a situation where I had to do this. All right. Okay. Let me, let me flip it in. So who would you love to see male, female don't matter. Okay. Living. I'm actually just doing living. Who would you love to see? Either solo artist or group? Duke it out. On stage, two mics. Who would you love to see? What's the girl that sings? It's a, oh God. Oh God, I can't think of her name. Oh, it's killing me. This is really bad.

I'm supposed to like no music, but I was going to pair this person with Alicia Keys, but she's Oh, God. She's a really beautiful young lady. It was a song that Oh, it's a remake. Ah, anyway, anyway, I have to think of a new one. Your poor face. You're looking at me like girl, come on. You were doing a song and I was trying to actually figure out the song, too. I'm full of additional love. That's something that, uh, uh.

And a guy. Oh, Smith. Alice Smith. Thank you, Dad. Yeah, that song, Full, yeah. That's the song I played the other night when I was talking about that snare drum. Yes, yes, yeah. That's the song I played the other night when I was talking about that snare drum. Yes, yes, yes.

I forgot how much I loved that song and how much I loved her voice. I would love to see her with Alicia Keys. I think they would be beautiful together. Oh, no, let me tell you something. Alice Smith, so because that song, I actually, she sang for, Harry Belafonte had this event that was in Atlanta.

This was in 2017, I think. 2017? Or 2018. So we covered it, and I met Alice backstage. And she went out and sang that song, Yo, I'm Talking About. First of all, she walked out there and it was just straight-ass swagger. It was sexy swagger.

I was like, y'all, she about to kill this song. It was like the way she walked out, I was like, she about to kill this song, y'all. Oh, baby. Yes. She didn't just kind of like, no, no, no. She walked out with sexy swagger. I turned to my photographer, I'm like, she about to kill this song.

I'm going to let you know that. And I actually shot some of it. I shot some and I wish I shot the whole, but she just killed it. So then I got her number and when I was in LA and she happened to be singing at a spot there. I was in L.A. and she happened to be singing at a spot there, my flight, I was so mad, my flight got delayed and it got delayed and I missed it.

But I met up with her, Mara Brock Akil, Salim Akil for dinner a little bit later. But she sang, she sang here in D.C. because she's from the D.C. area. She sang at Beverly Beverly Bonds Black Girls Rock Conference. And yo, man, she just, no, Alice Smith is just banging. She's banging. All right, so that's okay. So you said Alicia Keys and Alice Smith?

That'll be dope. Okay, so give me two singers who are now ancestors you would have loved to see go at it. Luther and Ellazgerald oh luther and ella fitzgerald i am i i hate if i've only i only saw luther live one time he sang he sang in houston luther vandross anita baker on tour uh and it was just an unbelievable concert. And it's still, there are still some people you put on.

It's weird. You see, showtime with the Apollo. Luther Vandross is one of the few singers you should not try to sing a Luther song because black people will fool you the hell off because it's like you can sing a lot of other songs but don't sing a Luther song because black people

get offended. Black people's like, I know his ass ain't trying to sing no Luther Vandross song. The only people who should sing a Luther song are women. Women can get away with singing a Luther song. Men should not sing it because they're going to be like, his ass think he Luther. He need to sit his ass down.

He is not Luther. I'm telling black people, there's some people you can't. Don't do it. Don't. I don't care. I don't care what it is. You can be a local talent show. You hear that first court like his ass trying to sing a Luther song. I don't care. I don't care what it is. You can be a local talent show.

You hear that first chord, like his ass trying to sing a Luther song. Oh, that will start off mad. Well, it's interesting because, you know, sometimes I'll get people who will come on social media and show me that they can sound like Luther. And it's always so upsetting to me. And you like, stop. It's upsetting because there will never be another Luther. Be yourself. He would want that for you. It's like even if you do approach a song, be you.

Be you. Absolutely. He respected each singer, every musician on stage for who they were. And so, you know, it's even hard for me to hear Luther's voice now. You know, I still get heartbroken. So, you know, for someone to do a poor job of it, you know, because I heard him every night. So I know what he sounds like. I know every nuance. I know everything, you know, because I heard him every night. So I know what he sounds like. I know every nuance.

I know everything, you know, as far as how it hit me. So when someone comes with that, it's, and I understand it's out of love and respect. I really do. But I think having that as, having him as an inspiration is a beautiful thing. But further to find yourself is the blessing.

You know? Yeah. Y'all can imagine, Lisa's going to have a fan, behind her fan, she's like, you better sit your ass down trying to sing Luther. She coming up, you better sit the hell down. Boy, stop. Stop.

Hey, somebody asked, what are you working on? Are you working on an album? First of all, because the other night you said you were in the studio. So are you working on an album? You got your own band. What are you doing? How can people hear you so they can stop talking about the one song?

I know, right. So I was working on a, it was for the National Endowment for the Arts. They were honoring jazz greats. And so I was working on that. And Terry Lynn Carrington was the host. They were honoring Bobby McFerrin. God, Roscoe Mitchell, I believe. And I said Reggie Workman, I believe that's the name, because these were new people to me. And Dorothana Kirk, I think. I have the names wrong. But if you go to NEA, you'll be able to see the names. And it's on YouTube. So it was really fun to work on that.

And just trying to figure out, how am I going to get my mic set up and doing things from home? You're a pro. You know how to make all your stuff sound good. I'm like, OK, how is he sitting in his house and the music sounds like it's on the radio? How are you doing this, man? You're going to have to give me lessons,

because I'm just like, oh my god. Actually, I'm going to help you out. Check this out right here. Yeah? Hold me see hold on let me see if i can let me disappear i'm trying let me okay i'm back so i'm actually sitting at the crib and that's me right now. Huh? Yeah. I got a whole green screen studio sitting in my home. So no, I'm not

sitting here. I'm not sitting in my studio DC. Our studio was shut down. So yes, I got the full green. Yes. I got the light and everything set up. I got a monitor here. I got the switcher everything set up. I got a monitor here. I got the switcher right here.

Oh, yeah. Daddy's got tracks. I got stuff. I got gadgets. And the thing about my gadget is I can write my stuff off. I can write my stuff off. Hello, self-made. So, if folks want to get your stuff, where should they go to check you out? Yeah. Don't go to Spotify. Go to iTunes and buy anything that, you know, is that has my name on it.

That'd be great. And I have a Web site at least sufficient music dot com. They're like a F.I.S.C.H.E. L-I-S-H-A-F-I-S-C-H-E-R. There you go. There you go. Sufficientmusic.com. Okay. Yes. And there'll be a lovely new website up soon.

I'm writing. I'm home writing. And I'm really looking forward to recording and getting my stuff together. Maybe you'll even help me with my recording. Yo, ain't no problem. Ain't no problem. Like I say, look, I can extract folks from FaceTime. I've helped numerous folks. So this thing ain't nothing. So I've been, look, this is I try to explain to people. I went to communications high school. i've been doing this since i was 14 years old so just like people who sang their whole life media i was the sports editor of my elementary

school newspaper so really i've done media since i was in the fourth grade wow uh so this is what i do okay but do you also play an instrument too? I used to. I used to. In fact, I played cornet in elementary school. My brother played trumpet. One of my sisters played clarinet. One of my sisters played flute. One of my sisters was not in the band.

She's the black sheep of the family. I always wanted to play saxophone because of the saxophone on B.B. King's Take It Home, unbelievable song. And I checked it out by the time I got there, the auto saxophones, the band instructor, Mr. Schneider, he said, look, I need a bass baritone horn. I have none. And I was like, all right, fine. Bass baritone horn does not compare uh and i was like all right fine uh bass baritone horn it does not compare sexy wise to the saxophone right it's not it does not but uh i did and i went from a beginner's band to advanced band in one semester and i never forget walking to advanced band class the second semester my brother was like my brother who was already in there he's like

you're in the wrong class i I was like, no, player, I'm here. I was like, yeah, beginners to it. I was like, even you didn't do that. So, and so one first place medal, and this is what happened. I went to Jack Hayes High School, Historic Black High School in Houston,

and I did not even last one semester because my dad was like, yo, what the hell's up with these staying late? Black high schools were just like HBCUs. And they were like, yo, we got halftime. My dad was like, his ass ain't here for no halftime. And he went to the school, went to Jack Yates, met with the band director, Ms. Chappelle. And the conversation was about why are we practicing late?

The conversation ended with he'll have his uniform in tomorrow. Oh, wow. I was like, how the hell we go? How does it escalate? Wow. I've been going from you concerned, I'm out the band. Straight up. He ain't here for band.

He's here for the school communications. He ain't here for band. He's here for the school of communications. He ain't here for band. And that was hard because I walked into high school first chair. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Actually went and got some brothers who finished from Yates who were in the band at Texas Southern University to come compete against me. They were like, he's an arrogant ass freshman walking in first chair. And I was like, bring your asses.

I mean, I was trained properly. I was trained properly. So I still wish I tell Gerald Albright and Kirk Whalen all the time. I don't have time, but I said I need to just go ahead and do it and go take some saxophone lessons because that that i i do not have many regrets in my life that is that is a top three regret that i procrastinated and that's why i don't procrastinate i've never i've never procrastinated since then wow i feel you because i did not and it was like i messed around my parents were saying go sign up for the saxophone I kept farting around finally when I did they were all out so that mistake ain't going to happen again

we're going to close it out this way you're a singer hit us with something close us out let's see what would you like to hear let's see. What would you like to hear? Let's see. You know what they're saying on YouTube, what they want to hear.

You ready? How can I ease the pain? I know you're coming back again How can I Ease the pain in my heart How can I Ease the pain When I know you're coming back again

How can I ease the pain in my heart How can I ease the pain Come on now, Lisa Fisher. Go to lisafishermusic.com, get her stuff. She said, don't go to Spotify, go buy my stuff. I appreciate it, Lisa. Great talking with you. Anything you need, just holler at a brother.

Obviously, I'm a huge fan, and I appreciate you showing love to me as well. Love you so much. Thank you. Thank you for this time. You're amazing, and what you do for all of us is truly a blessing and necessary. So thank you. Thanks a bunch. I appreciate it. Join the Bounce for your weekend. I'll see you on

Club Brown Liquor. Oh, you will. I appreciate it. Lisa Fisher, thanks a bunch. Folks, that is it. Fabulous show. Gerald Horn, DeJuan McCoy. Lisa Fisher, thanks a bunch. Folks, that is it. Fabulous show. Gerald Horn, DeJuan McCoy, Lisa Fisher, great information. Y'all got to support Roller Barton Unfiltered because that's why we do what we do. Ain't nobody else doing this thing the way we do it.

So please support us. Cash App, Dollar Sign, RM Unfiltered, PayPal.me forward slash RMartin Unfiltered, Venmo.com forward slash RM Unfiltered. Venmo dot com forward slash R M unfiltered. You can also send a money order to New Vision Media, N-U Vision Media, Inc., 1625 K Street, Northwest, Suite 400, Washington, D.C., 2006. Don't forget to also, folks, we need you to fill out that census, 2020census.gov, 2020census.gov

2020census.gov Thank you so very much. Look for the restringing for the rest of the day. And we also have a putting together special. All the black voices who spoke at the Democratic National Convention we're going to restring that over the weekend. So folks, thank you so very much.

If y'all are on YouTube, y'all can get up right there. Thanks to my crew. We were out of studio today, so I had to do it from the crib. And so Kenyon White handed all the production, everything along those lines. But I'll be back in studio on Monday. Y'all, we're going to

keep doing our thing. And don't forget, 73 days until Election Day. But be sure to get your ballot. Get ready to early vote so we can hashtag fire trump in november we always close the show out of course with our donors of our bring the fuck fan club i'll see y'all on monday This is an iHeart podcast