#RolandMartinUnfiltered - ATL Cop City Funds Approved, Jackson, Miss. $115M for Water Crisis, Famous Amos Success Initiative

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

6.6.2023 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: ATL Cop City Funds Approved, Jackson, Miss. $115M for Water Crisis, Famous Amos Success Initiative The Atlanta City Council votes 11 to 4 to fund a controversial police training facility, despite hundreds of community members speaking out against it.  One of the four council members who voted against the measure will join me tonight. Jackson, Mississippi, receives millions in federal funds to fix its infrastructure that caused last year's water crisis.  We'll talk about how the funds will help the predominantly black capital city that the state keeps ignoring. In our Marketplace segment, we'll speak with a recipient of the Ingredients for Success Initiative by Famous Amos.  They'll tell us how the initiative helps black small business owners close the wealth gap. And later in the show, my one-on-one interview with Dr. Beverly Daniel Tatum, the author of "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?: And Other Conversations about Race."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man.

We met them at their homes. We met them at the recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication.

Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. Să ne urmăm în următoarea mea rețetă. All right, folks, today is Tuesday, June 6, 2023, coming up on Roller Mark Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network after an all-nighter testimony. Atlanta City Council votes to fund what critics have been calling Pop City. We'll talk with a city council member about this vote and all of the people who were speaking out against it. Also, Jackson, Mississippi is getting more than $100 million from the Biden administration for their water system.

We'll tell you about that. Also, we're talking with the recipients of an initiative tied to the famous Amos cookie in our Marketplace segment. Plus, Beverly Tatum talks about her book came out more than 20 years ago about black kids who sit together in the cafeteria talking about the issue of diversity and equity, as well as how do we get to inclusion when it comes to higher education. Folks, it's time to bring the funk.

I'm Roland Mark-Unfiltered on the Black Sun Network. Let's go. He's got whatever the piss, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling. Best belief he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics.

With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's Uncle Roro, y'all. It's rolling, Martin. Yeah. Rolling with Roland now Yeah, yeah, yeah He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best

You know he's Roland Martin Now Martin Additional discussion on the motion to adopt as amended. Hearing none, we'll move to a vote. Madam Clerk, please open the vote on the motion to adopt 23-0-1257 as amended. The vote is open. The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching.

The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching. The whole world's watching! The votes are... The votes are... The votes. Thank you. The vote is... Thank you. The vote is 11 yeas, 4 nays.

The motion to adopt as amended carries. Madam Clerk, please call the adjourning roll. Council President Shipman. Folks, it's 4.30 in the morning when Atlanta City Council took that vote, 11 to 4, to fund what critics call Cop City, what the city calls a public safety center. It will train police and firefighters as well. It's going to cost about $90 million on this 85-acre land. It's going to be located in South DeKalb County, where there's 94% African American. Folks, more than 1,000 people spoke. Nearly, nearly 15 hours of testimony of individuals

coming up speaking against this. It has been very contentious there. Just a number of people were speaking. We were live yesterday at this time, and people were literally speaking at this time on yesterday. A lot of emotion, a lot of energy, yet the city council still chose to fund this by an 11 to 4 vote. One of the folks who actually voted against one of the four votes joins us right now. She is Keisha Waits, the member of Atlanta City Council. Glad to have you here with us, Councilwoman Waits. So explain this again for people who are not from Atlanta. Why was this so contentious? Mr. Martin, it was contentious for a number of reasons. And I first want to say that I respect the will of this body. I do. But it was contentious because there has been zero transparency surrounding this particular matter. Additionally, we were told that this would be financed with private and

billion dollars. That's changed daily. The price tag now is $67 million. I believe, as elected officials, we are charged with carrying out the will of the voters, right, the people who elected us to be here. And for whatever reason, it's my belief that what you saw yesterday was a punch in the face. There was 15 hours of comment. I heard three individuals that were for and supportive of this initiative. The other 600, 700 people, I would say, were not. There was this narrative that these were outside agitators who were from other states. A dozen of the folks that were in the line that spoke, I know them personally. They're activists that live here in this city. And oftentimes we're on different sides of the issues. We don't always

agree. But the one thing I think we all agree upon is, is that this is not something that needed to happen yesterday. So I'm confused. You're in the city council. How was there a lack of transparency? I've covered city council, county government, and how is it that you were confused by the details of this to say initially it was supposed to be privately funded, and then what? Was it like an accounting error or for folks that there was like an oversight? How do you overlook $30, $40, $50 million? Great question. This particular piece of policy passed during the previous Atlanta City Council. It came back up again because there was an additional $30 million that was needed. So the original $30 million had been authorized previously, and there was a shortfall that needed to be made up, and they had to come back before the council. This initiative or project did not go through the normal procurement and contracting process.

It has been completely clandestine. So who the contractors are, the folks who are being paid, who are working on this project, we have no knowledge of that. That is not a normal process that handles within city council. Wait, wait, wait, hold up. You're going to be spending $30 million of taxpayers' money,

and you, how much? $67 million. So you're going to be spending $67 million of taxpayer money, and you don't have a way of tracking who is getting the money? Someone does, but the city council does not. Does the city? I mean, is there a city official who has oversight of this?

I'm confused. You know, I can't speak to that, Mr. Martin. That's one of the reasons that, again, I was a hard no vote, because I believe that there were questions that had not been answered. I don't know if you're aware, but an activist, a protester, was shot on that property 57 times. This was not by an Atlanta police officer, but nonetheless, this young man was shot by law enforcement. And so it taints the entire process. We've called for an independent investigation to just simply ask, what happened? And there's a lot of clout surrounding that conversation. There are rumors of human remains being on that particular property because it's an old prison farm. So the reality is there are so many unanswered questions, and it's my belief

that we just did not have the time necessary to answer all of these questions. For the record, my no vote was in no way a lack of support for our law enforcement communities. I am not anti-police. I do believe we need a facility, but I believe it should go through the normal channels and process where the public is engaged. They weigh in on the conversation. And that is normally what happens when you talk about something with this type of price tag. I've never seen this before. One of the reasons that people tune out of the political process is when this type of stuff happens, when we vote against your wishes, when we make decisions and not include them in it.

I've never, I'm 50 years of age, seen this type of a political engagement in my political career. I was elected to the Georgia General Assembly in 2012 as a representative, and I've never seen this type of outpouring. It's very clear to me the public had zero confidence in this project, and they did not want this to move forward. So what is next? Is that it? Well, you know, here's the thing. We have a strong mayor system, so at the end of the day, the buck stops with the mayor. The council voted this thing up 11 to 4. You know, there was no measures to come back to debate. I would have been fine with it going to committee to be discussed further. But, you know, it appeared to me that there was no appetite to do that.

So that decision has been made. And so we've got to deal with that. Oftentimes in government, we have unintended consequences. But here's the reality. I've got to work with my colleagues again because we have other conversations and other initiatives that we need to support. At the end of the day, I'm disgusted. I'm frustrated. I share the agitation that the consumer and the constituents have. And the goal is to figure out how we move forward. I believe that $67 million could have been put toward affordable housing. We have a massive homeless and unsheltered population here in the city of Atlanta because of our moderate weather. We need to address that.

We have one level one trauma center here in metro Atlanta, as large as our city is, two hospitals are closed given the challenges of funding. Mental health is growing all over the country in terms of challenges. We had a gentleman, a shooter, a mass shooting here in the city of Atlanta. So mental health resources are very, very scarce. There's so many things that we could do. How about pay our law enforcement officers properly so they don't take on two and three different jobs? What about housing for individuals who want to live in the city and who are now priced out? There are a thousand different things that we could have done given that type of price tag. Wow. All right, then it's now now last question. So you would say it's now in the hands of the mayor. What does that mean? What can he

actually do? Can he kill him? Well, ultimately, the city council is a legislative acting body. They authorized the mayor to spend. So now he is the administrator. So he is now charged with carrying out, you know, the policy or the legislation at hand. So these funds are now authorized. And so building is to move forward. They've already broken ground and cleared the trees, and so essentially the project will start. At this point, it's really ultimately up to the mayor to make those decisions, and it appears, based on what I've seen, the appetite that I've seen, and all of the movement, that they're moving full speed ahead. All right. Councilwoman, we appreciate you joining us to explain this. Thanks a lot.

Thank you so much. All right, folks, we're going to go to a break. We'll be back on Rolling Mark Unfiltered right here on the Black Star Network. Don't forget, if you're on YouTube, hit the like button. Also, folks, download the Black Star Network app, Apple Phone, Android Phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. Also, we want you to support us in what we do by joining our Bring the Funk fan club. Your dollars make it possible for us to travel this country to cover the stores that are necessary. Send your check and money orders to PO Box 57196, Washington, D.C., 20037-0196.

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Lose Their Minds, available at bookstores nationwide. Download your copy on Audible. I'll be right back. Hatred on the streets, a horrific scene, a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence. White people are losing their damn minds. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storm to the US Capitol.

We've seen shouts. We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history.

Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the wrath of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys.

America, there's going to be more of this. There's all the Proud Boys, guys. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

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It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott.

And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir, we are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz

Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game we gotta make moves and make them early set up goals don't worry about a setback just save up and stack up to reach them let's put ourselves in the right position pregame to greater things start building your retirement plan at this is preispreetirement.org brought to you by AARP

and the Ad Council. The country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. Black Star Network is here. Oh, no punches! A real revolutionary right now.

Thank you for being the voice of Black America. All momentum we have now, we have to keep this going. The video looks phenomenal. See, there's a difference between Black Star Network and Black-owned media and something like CNN. You can't be Black-owned media and be scared. It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home. You dig?

And I'm Dr. Terrence Ferguson. And you're tuning in to... Roland Martin Unfiltered. I'm going to use the same method for the other side. I'm going to use the same method for the other side. I'm going to use the same method for the other side. I'm going to use the same method for the other side. I'm going to use the same method for the other side. Să ne urmăm în următoarea mea rețetă! Thank you. All right, folks, let's talk about this Cop City vote by the Atlanta City Council with my panelist,

Lawn Victoria Burt. She writes for NNPA, also known as Black Press for America. She comes to us out of Arlington, Virginia. Also, Dr. Larry J. Walker, assistant professor, University of Central Florida. Glad to have both of you here. So here's the thing here, Lauren. Lots of energy, a lot of people who were activated by this, who were angry, who were upset by the building of this. So listen to that city councilwoman, and I'm just trying to understand, how do you not have all of the information,

but you're voting? I have no idea. And I have no idea why something like that would pass. I thought her points were very well taken with regard to this is the type of thing that spikes apathy in voters when we're told to vote, people are told to vote, particularly in a city like Atlanta. This is a city, it's not just any city, is the black mecca, you know, in the United States. And for them not to have any information on a 60-plus million dollar police project, for them to not know exactly where that money is going to be spent is unthinkable. I've never heard of that happening any time in the last maybe 10 to 15 years. You've got to be kidding me.

You're obviously accountable to your constituents to tell them what you're voting on, why you're voting on it. And typically on a vote like this, with that much money involved, you almost have to vote no simply because you can't answer any of those questions when you get them from constituents. The idea that you have a 15-hour session that goes on that long, with that much emotion, and only three people stood up, according to the councilwoman, and were in favor of Cop City, I mean, that would tell you that, you know, something is wrong. And, you know, our political system, unfortunately, puts forward a lot of actors that are, you know, committed to the go-along, get-along establishment wings of the respective political parties.

So you've got a situation where the types of people who come into elected office quite frequently tend to sort of go along with the program and not question. And when people see that and this level of a disconnect, which has been going on for months, as everybody knows, with this particular project, that's a huge problem. That's an absolutely huge problem. And to your point, Roland, I don't understand how they could have had this vote and gotten to this point, knowing we've been talking about policing, you know, for years now, obviously since the death of George Floyd specifically,

but we've been talking about policing in black communities and the way police work and treat our communities for years. And for this to happen in this way in Atlanta, of all places, is pretty amazing. It really is amazing. Larry. Rowan, you know, in watching the interview, I was just as confused as everyone else about their process. I'm assuming there's some kind of mechanism in place where this appears to be been fast-tracked. Obviously, she highlighted that $30-plus million had already been appropriated. They appropriated an additional $30-plus million. And then she indicated that the governor, excuse me, the mayor obviously makes the final decision.

But once that money has been appropriated, in the process, the trees have already been cleared. We already know this is going to be built. So I want to also highlight that it's important that people continue to raise their concerns in terms of not only in terms of how this was done, this process, but also we talked about the muting of Black voices in other minoritized communities. We have clearly, since George Floyd, you know, talked a lot about how many, the number of Black folks that continue to be killed by law enforcement, even in the city of Atlanta. So to ignore those voices, to pass this amount of money, provide this a lot amount of money, and 11 to 4 vote clearly highlights that they're not listening to their constituents.

And so the next step for those who are activists is that whenever the next election rolls around, to both those points, people out. I know the mayor has caught a lot of heat on this particular topic, and he's supportive of continuing to go along with Cop City. But the bottom line is we know that providing, and we talk about training of additional resources, does nothing but put the lives of other Black and other folks' lives in danger. And so I hope, like I said, these activists continue to apply the pressure. But hearing the city council person's conversation about how this played out legislatively is unclear, and I think I would be interested in having her, maybe not her, coming back.

But I'd like to hear from some of the folks that voted in the affirmative for this, Roland. I'd really like to hear what they had to say and their reasons for supporting this. Well, we tried to get them, but the reality is we reached out and not a single person who voted for this will come on the show. What a shock.

That's not surprising. Yeah, well, because they don't want to be on the record, Roland, obviously, on this issue, because it's extremely hard to explain why you would be voting for something, a single project that is over $60 million. And I think it would probably be very difficult to find a likewise project that has anything to do with housing or education or something like that, where, wow, we're just voting for this big, you know, complex that is focused on a singular issue and a singular quadrant of the government, which would be policing. And you're doing that, and there's no detail, and nobody can explain it. And it's sad to see. I'm sorry, but Julian Bond's son is one of the people who voted in favor of

this. I mean, I just find this to be, particularly in the time that we're in, obviously, with the discussion around Black Lives Matter, discussions around voting, getting black people to vote, motivating black people to vote, et cetera, and so on. And you've got a black mayor sitting there that's for this. And nobody can clearly articulate why in the world that much, you know, we're paying, obviously, into the tax system, just like anybody else. So we're paying into the tax system, $60 million strong, and then you can't even tell us the details of why it is that we need a cop city. And in a world where police don't necessarily—I mean, the idea— nobody can convince me that policing is an area that doesn't get funded well.

Policing gets funded very well. And then you walk into a lot of schools, particularly in the South. You've got schools sitting up here in Virginia that are over 100 years old. And I'll bet you that Georgia isn't too far behind. So that right there is hugely problematic. Well, again, I think what jumps out for me here is very simple. And I've been on boards. And I can tell you right now, there is no way in hell I could defend a vote for something if I don't know exactly why the funding changed. If all of a sudden it was supposed to be privately paid,

why is the city paying $67 million? If I can't answer the question to be privately paid, why is the city paying $67 million? If I can't answer the question to go through the procurement process, how are we tracking who's getting the contracts? Then I got a problem. And to me, those are just basic.

Those are just fundamentally, those are just fundamental, basic questions that got to be answered. That's just me. So I'm not quite understanding again how they got to be answered. That's just me. So I'm not quite understanding, again, how they how they got at that conclusion. So we're going to keep reaching out and hopefully one of the folks who comes on, whether it's the mayor or someone else, will come on and actually explain to us. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one

visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree.

It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. That's how they arrived at this decision. All right, got to go to the break. We'll be back. Rolling Mark Unfiltered right here on the Black Star Network.

That was a pivotal, pivotal time. I remember Kevin Hart telling me that. He's like, man, what you doing, man? You got to stay on stage. And I was like, ah, well, I'm like, I don't know. You know, I'm young. I'm thinking, I'm good. And he was absolutely right.

What show did you have at that? This was one-on-one. During that time. And I was telling you, so you're doing one-on-one. Going great. Yeah. You're making money. You're like.

I'm like, I don't need to leave. I don't need to leave from, you know, Wednesday, Thursday to Sunday. I, you know, I just didn't want to do that. You know, it was'm like, I don't need to leave. I don't need to leave from, you know, Wednesday, Thursday to Sunday. I just didn't want to do that. You know, it was just like, I'm gonna stay here. Oh, I didn't want to finish work Friday, fly out, go do a gig Saturday, Sunday. I was like, I don't have to do that.

And I lost a little bit of that hunger that I had in New York. I would hit all the clubs, run around. You know, sometimes me and Chappelle or me and this one or that one, we'd go to the Comedy Cellar at one in the morning. I mean, that was our life. We loved it. You know, you do two shows in Manhattan,

go to Brooklyn, leave Brooklyn, go to Queens, go to Jersey. And I kind of just, I got complacent. I was like, I got this money, I'm good. I don't need to go, I don't need to go chase that because that money wasn't at the same level that I was like, I got this money, I'm good, I don't need to go chase that, because that money wasn't at the same level that I was making, but what I was missing was that training. Was that...

And it wasn't the money. It was the money, you know, it was that, that's what I needed. Coming up next on The Frequency, right here on the Black Star Network, Shanita Hubbard. We're talking about the ride or die chick. We're breaking it down. The stereotype of the strong black woman. Some of us are operating with it as if it's a badge of honor. Like, you even hear black women, like,

aspiring to be this ride or die chick, aspiring to be this strong black woman at their own expense. Next on The Frequency, right here on the Black Star Network. What's up, everybody? It's your girl Latasha from the A. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Janessa Robinson's family is desperately needing your help to find her.

The 32-year-old was last seen around the Las Vegas, Nevada Strip on April 23rd. She has been dealing with severe mental health issues such as amnesia and paranoia and may need medical attention. She's 5 feet 8 inches tall, weighs 120 pounds, with brown hair and brown eyes. Anyone with information about Janessa Robinson is urged to call the Las Vegas-Nevada Metro Police Department at 702-828-3111. 702-828-3111. 702-828-3111. And we appreciate Delta Sigma Theta for, there was a tweet we saw,

and that's how we found out that she is missing. And so hopefully folks will have some information regarding that. Jackson, Mississippi is getting a much needed financial help to rebuild the city's water infrastructure. President Joe Biden is awarding $115 million in federal funds. That money is part of the $600 million in appropriations funding approved by Congress last year. The water system of the majority black city of nearly 150,000 residents

nearly collapsed last summer due to major flooding and years of infrastructure neglect. Residents were left without clean and safe drinking water for days during its initial failure in August and have continued to face disruptions. Folks, the mayor and the state with the nation's largest unhoused population will lead the U.S. Conference of Mayors Task Force on Homelessness. L.A. Mayor Karen Bass was appointed chair during the U.S. Conference of Mayors Task Force on Homelessness. L.A. Mayor Karen Bass was appointed chair during the U.S. Conference of Mayors meeting. Following the announcement, Bass made this statement,

I look forward to locking arms with mayors throughout the country and organizing this task force to secure national resources and change in national policies to allow us to bring more of our unhoused constituents inside. Bass met with federal and local leaders, including HUD Secretary Marcia Fudge, and participated in a forum on regional strategies to reduce homelessness. A recent Department of Housing and Urban Development assessment report found that nearly 600,000 Americans are unhoused on any night. California's homeless population alone is 171,521. Here's the question, Larry. When we talk about the issue of homelessness,

I think there are a number of factors we've got to factor in. You have to deal with the mental health issue. Okay? You've got to deal with that. You have to deal with a mental health issue. Okay? You've got to deal with that. You have to deal with a number of these folks are veterans. And so when you begin to talk about this problem, people complain about the problem but are light on solutions.

Yeah, you know, you have to, you know, first of all, it's really great that, you know, in terms of when she ran for mayor and even now, that Mayor Bass is focused on unhoused. And you're right, Roland, this is a complex issue. I think one of the other things we don't really talk about, you gave that statistic in terms of those individuals who are unhoused nationally and in the city of L.A. is how many children are unhoused and the impact it has on pre-K through 12 schools. So, and I think the

other thing, Roland, we need to talk about, this is an indictment on our economic system. That's really what it comes down to. You can't be the most prosperous country in the world and then have, you know, nearly a million people in this country who are unhoused from day to day. And this is wrong. This is a problem that's been going on for years. And most jurisdictions like L.A. and other large cities have pretty much ignored. They complain about it and often try to use police to take those who are unhoused and jail them, which really creates a cycle. But I'm glad that she's, you know,

this is her platform. She's embraced this. She's the right person to oversee this panel for the Conference of Mayors. And obviously she can lean on certainly her experience as former CBC chair in terms of her leadership experience. But this is a critical issue that can address a lot of solutions.

Obviously, we need to make sure these individuals have jobs, training. You talked about mental health support. The other thing about, we talked about veterans, Roland, we have to remember that the largest percentage of home unhoused veterans are Black. So this is, these are, you know, we have to talk about structural racism also. But this is a complex issue. I'm glad she's once again spearheading this initiative nationally and in LA, but this is an issue we really have to talk about in terms of addressing it from an economic perspective in addition to mental health and some of the other issues.

Again, just like we talk about the issue of crime, it's multifaceted, Lauren, and all too often these political folks don't want to deal with the multifaceted part of it. It's like, okay, fix the problem. Well, it ain't that simple. No, it's not simple. You know, I mean, there's a lot to say here. We have money for all sorts of things in this country. We certainly have money for foreign aid. We certainly have billions for Ukraine.

We certainly have money anytime we want to have money to send it to some emergency thing, right? We basically have a policy going on in a lot of these major cities that is criminalizing poverty and specifically criminalizing homelessness. We certainly see that in Washington, D.C., where the policy seems to be to get the homeless out of sight. And in certain places in D.C., particularly in the middle of the city, right down the street, actually, from where you are, Roland, they cleared a park not too long ago at 15th and K. I suspect they did that because we're entering the tourist season right now. And so you have a bunch of doors coming into Washington, D.C., and I think the mayor and the president didn't want anyone to see the reality of tents going up all over Washington, D.C., and near the State Department on Virginia Avenue. And it's embarrassing,

quite frankly, because nobody has an answer to it. But I have a hard time believing when I see some of the appropriations for these cities and these states that they have absolutely no answer for homelessness. You've got to be kidding me. And Wayne Turnage and Mayor Muriel Bowser in Washington, D.C. is the nation's capital, a capital of wealth and a capital of affluence, and yet nobody has any answers for this other than let's get these people out of sight. It has become epidemic in California and in New York. And as somebody who has a residence in Virginia and New York and a small place in D.C., I would say that I don't see anybody having any solution to this, but we got to get real. I mean, we definitely have solutions for everybody else's countries when we're sending them money.

So I don't know why we can't find a solution here. I just think it's a lack of ingenuity and, frankly, a sort of loathing of poor people that we as a nation, I mean, we are a survival of the fittest nation. You know, we are an absolute survival of the fittest nation, and we don't care about poor people. And we're getting close to stating that. I mean, we saw a homeless guy get choked to death on a New York City subway, and we had the mayor and the governor go silent and say absolutely nothing and act like it was just okay somehow. So then finally they sort of woke up, you know.

I mean, everybody knows that had that been some Wall Street broker, that that would not have been the reaction. So, you know, there's some things here that are underlying this that I think don't get talked about often enough. Can I ask something really quick? Yeah, go ahead. I think the point Macaulay just made is really important. This really comes down to will and worth.

And when I'm worth, I mean in terms of people, how we view other individuals' humanity. And the will, like Lauren just talked about, in terms of we have the will to appropriate resources to address this issue of the unhoused. This is an issue we've struggled with as a nation for decades, and we have to look at our will to address this issue and how we view

the humanity of other individuals. Yeah. Indeed. All right, folks, we've got to hold on one second. We've got an update on the death of D.C. high school English teacher Kenan Anderson, who died in Los Angeles police custody in January. L.A. Medical Examiner's autopsy report indicates Anderson's manner of death was undetermined. However, the cause was listed as the effects of cardiomyopathy or an enlarged heart and cocaine use. Anderson was visiting family members in Los Angeles when he was stopped on suspicion of causing a hit-and-run traffic accident

in the Venice area. Anderson ran, and officers tried to detain him by tasing him six times on January 3rd. Anderson's death prompted an outcry over the LAPD's use of force as he was one of three deaths at the hands of the LAPD. Just days into the new year, the family has filed a $50 million lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles. Also, folks, a class action lawsuit accusing Florida of discriminating against Florida A&M will be allowed to proceed. A Northern District of Florida judge

rejected the state's request to dismiss the suit of six students from Florida A&M filed in September. The lawsuit names the state of Florida, the State University System's Board of Governors, and its chancellor, Ray Rodriguez. from Florida A&M filed in September. The lawsuit names the state of Florida, the State University Systems Board of Governors, and its chancellor, Ray Rodriguez, the State Board of Education,

and its commissioner, Manny Diaz Jr., and Republican Governor Ron DeSantis as defendants. The plaintiffs demand that the state commit to equity in its support of HBCUs and seek injunctive relief under Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The complaint shows a $1.3 billion discrepancy in funding received compared to the University of Florida from 1987 to 2020. A 2022 study by Forbes found that Florida A&M received $26 million in funding. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1.

Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th, ad free at lava for good. Plus on Apple podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the war on drugs. But sir, we are back in a big way, in a very big way,

real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star studded a little bit, man. We got a Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice

to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown.

We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corps vet. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does.

It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend.

At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit AdoptUSKids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. $100 less per student than the University of Florida in 2020. Larry, your thoughts on this suit? Yeah, I'm glad that you let this suit go through. I've actually really written about this topic a lot.

And a lot of what we see is in terms of, you know, FAMU being a land-grant institution is that the federal government offers a portion and the state is supposed to match. And often with land-grant institutions like FAMU throughout the country, the states don't do that. So you see with Tennessee State and the hundreds of millions of dollars the state owes them there. So I'm really excited about this lawsuit. We had this lawsuit that was settled in Maryland with HBCUs in 2001 and also the Fordyce decision, Supreme Court decision in 1992. So I look forward to this case continuing to move forward and hoping that the students from the FAMU to file this lawsuit are successful. Lauren. Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of the Maryland situation and hopefully they'll be successful and it's good to see that the suit is going forward because, I mean, it reminds me of the Maryland situation and hopefully they'll be successful. And it's good to see that the suit is going forward because, you know, everything about these allocations is about money.

And when the money is not equal, it makes no sense. And, you know, I can't wait to hear their argument why the money isn't equal. You're absolutely right. And look, I mean, whether we talk about Maryland, whether we're talking about Tennessee State being owed $500 million, look, going all the way back to the university, excuse me, the Mississippi lawsuit that Alvin Chambliss led there, that was historic as well. I mean, again, that's what we're looking at. That's what we're facing. And I've said that every single state,

we should be looking at these type of lawsuits to make sure these HBCUs are properly funded by the state. Because, look, we know how they've been underfunded from the beginning. And so at the end of the day, it's always about following the money. All right, folks, got to go to break. When we come back, more on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. We wish to plead our own cause to long have others spoken for us. We cannot tell our own story if we can't pay for it. This is about covering us. Invest in black-owned media.

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On a next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, beware the generational curse. They're everywhere in our families, in our workplaces, and even in our churches. It's like a minefield, identifying the curse and knowing what to do about it. When we're talking about generational patterns, oftentimes we get locked into those patterns because we don't want anyone to say, oh, you acting brand new, or you doing something different from how, this is how we always did it. It's okay to do something different in order to get

the results that you want to see in your life. That's next on A Balanced Life on Black Star Network. Hey, it's John Murray, the executive producer of the new Sherri Shepherd Talk Show. You're watching Roland Mark. Until tomorrow. The folks at Famous Amos are doing their part to help reduce the wealth gap in the black community. For the third year, the cookie company is partnering with the National Black Chamber of Commerce for the Famous Amos Ingredients for Success Entrepreneurs Initiative. The national grant competition awards three black early-stage business owners with $50,000 in unrestricted business capital and business and mentorship resources. Joining me are Roshna

Patel, the VP of Marketing for Famous Amos, and Tracy Green, the co-founder and CEO of Vontel Eyewear. They cycle one grant recipient and current ingredients for success judge. All right. So let's talk about this. So first of all, how many folks were you looking at for this grant this year? So for this year, we just opened up the third cycle on May 18th, so we're still getting applications in. But last year, we had over 2,000 applications for the grant and similar for our first year of the program. So we're really hoping to surpass that number this year, but we're excited that we're getting at least 2,000 for three grant recipients that we end up awarding at the end of the day. So we say the third cycle, meaning this is the third year you've done this.

Correct. All right, so you open on May 18th, and then what's the deadline? June 23rd. June 21st? 23rd. 23rd. Now, so are there minimum requirements to apply? So the minimum requirements, first, you must be in business five years or less.

We want to make sure that we are focused on black-owned businesses, so it must be 90% black-owned business. And you must be 21 at the time of the application. And we're also looking to make sure that the business is located in the U.S. The other piece of it is that we're looking for any type of business with the exception of franchisees. Is there a revenue cap, if you will? So, I mean, so let's just say, all right,

so, you know, we're five, just, again, I'm just using, we're five years in September. So we're like right right underneath that. And so is there a minimum or is there maximum revenue a company can do? No, there isn't. It really is about supporting a small startup business. So if you've been successful in exceeding a certain capital threshold, we're not going to really hold that against you. It's really about making sure that in the early stages that we're able to provide resources while everything is anchored on that $50,000 grant. Our biggest achievement is that we've partnered with the National Black Chamber of Commerce to provide more than just the monetary

funds. It's about the networking. It's about the mentorship. It's about giving them the resources. Even if you go on the website, you'll see that we've put a lot of resources like how to write a business plan for the folks that are applying just for the application, right? So the resources are there for everyone.

And ultimately some of the other mentorship and networking come to you when you ultimately end up winning the grant at the end of the cycle. So you had 2,000 apply, and then how many did you pick? So we narrow it down to 10 finalists. And then from those 10 finalists, we are asking them to put in an essay to share with us why they should win. So the first round is that they have to give us a 90-second to a two-minute elevator pitch on why they should win the grant. And this should include things like what is it that they're going to plan to do with that funding,

what their passion is for, what their business objectives are. And ultimately that helps us narrow it down to 10. And then once we're narrowing it down to 10, we're able to move into the final cycle of awarding the three recipients. And yeah, you're on our website. So the website has a lot of this information. It's famous, famous ingredients for success.info, where not only do we have all of the application requirements but also the deadlines and we've also placed all of the 10 finalists from our last two cycles so that people are able to go and see what they put in for their application video as well as the submission on the forms that they filled out. Tracy, you went through this process. How has it elevated your business? It's been amazing for our business. We would not have been this far without the $50,000

that we won from Famous Amos. So we're so grateful to them. Every Black business needs three things. You need opportunity, you need funding, and you need support. And we had a great opportunity when Nickelodeon came to us and wanted us to do glasses for them. But of course, we didn't have the funding and we needed the support. And Famous Amos gave us both of those things. And we were able to create a line for them. And now we're into our second year with Nickelodeon. We started out with SpongeBob and Rugrats and Baby Shark, and now we're up to Paw Patrol and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It really has helped us grow. What size businesses do you think

really should be going after this grant? You know, actually all sizes. Like I said, you need the funding, you need opportunity, and you need support. And when you're a new business, one year, two years, even three years in, it's a hustle, And it's really hard to turn that dollar. And in order to make more product or get more distribution or whatever

you need, you need funding. You need to make money to make money. You know, you got to have it there to actually make more product. So I would say all sizes is welcome. Questions from our panel. Lauren, I'll start with you. But clearly you would not have a huge business. I mean, this sounds like something that would be geared toward smaller-sized businesses, correct? And also, can someone talk about why no franchises? So the reason that we chose not to do franchises is, as I mentioned before, it's about providing resources to have sustainable growth. And the franchises many times already have a full suite of resources available down to how to have the signage set up in the store and how to acquire new customers or consumers, depending on what kind of business it is. And we want to really focus on those folks

that may have a crossroads that they've come to where, like Fontel, they had the opportunity, but they didn't have the funding, or where they have investors that they're looking to work with, but they don't know how to do a business pitch. So that was why we even made the criteria for this grant a business pitch, because we wanted to make sure that even those folks that didn't end up winning the grant walk away with some kind of business experience through this pitch that they can continue to work on and polish up when we have other opportunities in the future.

Okay, thank you. Larry? Yeah, I have two questions for our panelists. I think the first question is, you talk about the difference, you know, between this being a grant and then a loan, which obviously is a huge difference. And then secondly, has there been any, in terms of any research in looking at the individuals that have received this grant in the past and the kind of growth that they've experienced, their businesses have experienced? So I can answer the first part of your question. This is ultimately a grant, so it is not a loan by any means. And as far as the growth, you know, I think Tracy can be better suited to answer the type of growth that they've

received. But the one thing that I just did want to share is that as we continue to grow this program, we're trying to make sure that we're doing things better and differently each year. So for the first time this year, we're putting together a think tank. So we have already 20 finalists from our first two rounds. We'll have 10 more this year. And we're putting together a think tank. So we have already 20 finalists from our first two rounds. We'll have 10 more this year. And we're putting together a think tank in D.C. to allow those 30 finalists to have resources. So while we didn't know in the first year that this would happen, we're not trying to do things where we're leaving behind folks that have come to us and come to us with a really strong business need. And so that was the reason that we actually decided to create

this think tank. And on top of it, the website itself was also another place for us to give resources that the people that didn't get the grant are able to come to and walk away with something that will help them, even if it may not be $50,000 in terms of a monetary grant. So, Tracy, but I'll let you answer like how this has helped you beyond what, you know, you mentioned with Nickelodeon. Yes. I mean, I think what people have to understand is that when you're a new business, you're using every dime. You're using your credit cards. You're using your personal finances. It's very hard to get a loan.

So, I mean, at the early onset, we went to a couple banks, and they said, you don't have a proven concept. And we're like, I said to the banker, you're wearing glasses. What are you talking about? We have a proven concept. But again, Black women and Black entrepreneurs, to get loans is very hard. And then you get these high interest rates. So to get a grant where there's no strings attached and you can use that money to kind of further growth your company another line. So now we have a couple of collaborations with a couple other people and businesses to actually create even more glasses. So you need the funding to get to the next level. And if you have a loan where you have to pay high interest rates or you can't even get the loan, how do you even get going, get started? So we're almost four years in and we have a Nickelodeon line. We have a Divine collection. We're representing all our sororities and fraternities. We also have a line with Harlem Haberdashery,

a very large family in the Harlem community, and we're doing a line with them. They have a boutique in Harlem. And we also have a line with the Earlene Sims collection. So we're doing a lot of things, and we would not have been able to do it if we didn't have the seed money to help us go forth. So it's very important. And we had a lot of resources. I have to say the judges who judged us helped us out and we were able to reach out to them for advertising help, marketing help. It was amazing to work with Mandy Bowen and Steve Canal. So we are doing the same thing as judges this year. Anyone who reaches out to us, we help them as well. They need to know how to write a grant or how to get an ad going or something, we help as well. So it's not just the funding, the resources are very important.

All right, then. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Cor vet. MMA fighter Liz Karamush.

What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early

and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position. Pre-game to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at thisispretirement.org. Brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council. And again, where can people go to get more information? It's

famousingredientsforsuccess.info All right then. We both appreciate both of you being on the show. Thanks a bunch. Thank you. All right then. Larry and Lauren, we still appreciate both of you being on the panel today. Thanks a bunch. Look forward to the next time. Folks, coming up next, I had a conversation with Dr. Beverly Tatum, the former president of Spelman College. We talked about

her book, More Than 20 Years Old, that looked at and broke down why black students were sitting together in the cafeteria in college. And it is extremely timely now as we talk about the attack on diversity, equity, and inclusion, multiculturalism, and all of these different things tied to education. It is a conversation you do not want to miss. That is next right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Do not forget, folks, hit that button. If you're on YouTube, hit the like button, folks. Of course, we would easily be over 1,000 likes, all right?

And support us in what we do. Download the Black Star Network app, Apple Phone, Android Phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. You can also support us with your resources by joining our Bring the Funk fan club. Your dollars make it possible for us to do this show every single day. Folks, the cost is real, $190,000 per month. And so we're out here fighting the battle for advertising dollars. But trust me, your dollars are also critically important to help sustain us. Y'all have been phenomenal since we launched this show September 4th, 2018. But the support needs

to continue. Our goal is to get 20,000 of our fans on an annual basis contributing at least $50 each. That's $4.19 a month, $0.13 a day. Send your check and money orders to P.O. Box 57196, Washington, D.C., 20037-0196. Cash app, dollar sign RM Unfiltered. PayPal, RM Martin Unfiltered. Venmo is RM Unfiltered. Zelle, Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. And don't forget, get a copy of my book, White Fear, How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds, available at bookstores nationwide. You can also get it Amazon, Barnes & Noble.

And of course, you can get it from Target. Download your copy on Audible. We'll be right back. On the next Get Wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach. Are you working hard and yet your performance doesn't reflect your paycheck? On the next Get Wealthy, you're going to learn some savvy career moves so that all your efforts actually show up in your bank account. Joining us is the founder of a career network, and she's going to share the three R's of accelerating your financial growth. Here's a tip as well. If you are an individual contributor and you desire to be a leader, do the work where you are now. Because if you do the work where you are now, when you do

reach the level, you'll be prepared to stay there. Right here on Get Wealthy, only on Black Star Network. Next on The Black Table with me, Greg Carr. The Supreme Court is back in session. God help us all. It is no exaggeration to say that this current session could completely reshape this country and redirect our future for generations to come. And not in a good way. We invite Dr. Valetia Watkins and Professor Angela Porter, our legal roundtable, back to the show

to put it all in perspective. That's on the next Black Table. Please don't miss it. Right here on the next black table please don't miss it right here on the black star network parkour executive producer a proud family you're watching roland martin unfiltered All right, Dr. Tatum, before we get into your book, The Anniversary, I got to ask you just your take on just the sheer craziness that we're now seeing with Republican attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion. I mean, my God, we're dealing with the banning of books and now they want to defund libraries. And I mean, it is just madness in higher education, anything dealing with the

issue of race and education. Yes. Well, you're right. It is madness. But maybe in some ways predictable. You know, Dr. King said after every period of racial progress, there's pushback against that progress. And certainly what we see here is a lot of pushback. And I think particularly pushback against young people who, as they learn more, ask challenging questions. They don't want those challenging questions asked, and therefore they don't want that information shared. Well, look, I mean, what you talked about,

I laid out in my book, White Fear, exactly that, that that's what we're dealing with. And you're right that in the period of American history, every period of black success or black advancement has always been followed by white backlash. what is really happening now. I mean, you've got in Mississippi, the state auditor wanting to assess every public university, how much money they're spending on DEI. We see the exact same thing happening with Ron DeSantis in Florida and in Texas. And now in North Carolina, they're pulling out any DEI requirements.

I mean, and the thing that I keep telling people, if you go back, whether you're talking about affirmative action, multiculturalism, inclusion, I mean, whatever phrases or buzzwords you want to come up with, the reality isexistent when all around us the data does not lie how race still impacts America, especially education. There's no question about that. You're absolutely right. And it is, it's frustrating to see how intense the pushback is. And it does raise questions, certainly for me as a lifelong educator, it does raise questions. For example, I taught a course on the psychology of racism for more than 20 years before I became a college administrator. I'm quite sure that course would not be allowed in some of those public institutions in the states you just mentioned. And yet I have alums who write to me today how meaningful that learning was for them more than 30 years ago, often saying it was the most powerful learning experience they had and the most important course, the one they think of most often. really negative time, difficult time, one might even argue dangerous time, in terms of the attack

on education broadly and about these issues in particular? You know, Dr. Ruth Simmons, who, you know, quite well, she, you know, detailed the issues that she had as president of Prairie View A&M University. I mean, first of all, here is a coup for Prairie View, the Texas A&M University system, being able to get someone of her stature to be president of that university. She could have easily stayed retired and been on the courts and things like that. But she talked about the Texas A&M Board of Regents, and she really issued a clarion call to Prairie View A&M alums, making it clear in terms of the governance of the institution. Now you look at Tennessee State, where you've got Republicans in Tennessee who want to get rid of the Board of trustees. And then when Tennessee State begins to request, you know,

some of the $500 million that a state committee said they really had been cheated out of, and all of a sudden, oh, let's now get rid of the president and other administrators. It was sort of like, as long as y'all weren't asking for your money, we were fine, but now you want to get your money, now we want to start looking at you in a whole different way. And what I keep warning people is that if you look at our state HBCUs But now you want to get your money. Now we want to start looking at you in a whole different way. And what I keep warning people is that if you look at our state HBCUs, many of these are many of these institutions are in red states.

And when you have Republicans who are going to be who are running those states with super majorities. And so our state HBCUs are people aren't really, I think, understanding that they the level of governance could really change over the next five to 10 years. Just your thoughts on people need to be mindful of that. Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I mean, there's no question that if you are publicly funded, you are dependent upon the actions of the state legislature. And. You know, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. What we see happening right now lets us know that there's a lot to be concerned about. Absolutely. The is when you talk about, so first of all, your book title, Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria of the Conversations About Race? It has been 20 years. Are you still surprised that it resonates as deeply and profoundly today as it did when it first came out. You would think, again, people always would say, oh, but things have just changed so much, Doc.

Well, you know, it's interesting to just think about that for a moment. I wrote the original version of that book in 1997. Bill Clinton was the president. He had just launched his initiative on his, what he called his presidential initiative on race. He said, now's the time for us to have a conversation about race because we're at peace and we're experiencing prosperity. And it's a good time for us to take a look at that difficult issue in our society. A lot of people don't remember that he even launched that initiative, but he did that. And it just happened to coincide with the release of my book in that fall of 1997. Fast forward 20 years to the release of the new version, the one you have,

which came out in 2017. And in between that time, 97 and 2017, there was not only Bill Clinton, but George W. Bush, there was Barack Obama, and then finally Donald Trump in the White House. Each one of those presidencies representing something different about where we were as a nation and how we thought about the world. And so it's just really interesting to think about that question. Why are all the Black kids sitting together in the cafeteria? A question that people often asked me in 97. They can still ask me today in 2023, because, of course, black students in high school and college do gather together,

particularly if they're in predominantly white settings and feel isolated or marginalized, but particularly in the context of what we were just talking about, the attack on African-American studies, for example, the desire not to include Black history in the curriculum, the, you know, push to not even have conversations about race and the way race impacts people's lives every day. All of those decisions tell Black students in particular, you are not part of our curriculum. You don't belong in this story. Maybe you don't belong in this school. That sense of belonging is important to people. And when you don't have it, you seek out others with whom you can experience it. It's easy to explain why the black kids are sitting together in the cafeteria,

but especially now in the political context in which we find ourselves. Well, here's what I find to be really interesting, though. It's not even really just in academics. I mean, the reality is, if you go on jobs, I don't care where you go. The reality is people tend to gravitate to like-minded. I always say when we're in the workplace, in many ways, those are involuntary places, meaning you don't really control who's around you, but who you eat with, you do. And so we see this exact same thing in the workplace, largely whites eating with whites, blacks eating with blacks, white men largely eating with white men, white women largely eating with white women, and people sort of gravitate to, I dare say, their tribes. Sure. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I mean,

people often ask the question as though it was something we should try to prevent. But it's important to acknowledge, as you just have, that we all seek out people who have shared experiences, you know, people who we feel will understand where we're coming from, where we can just relax and be ourselves, where we don't have to worry about what we're about where we're coming from, where we can just relax and be ourselves, where we don't have to worry about what we're about to say, you know, where we will feel understood. That's a common human experience. Everybody wants that, especially when you're relaxing,

like having your lunch, wanting to just take a moment away from the responsibilities of your job. All of that is fine. But why do we ask the question, why are the Black people sitting together in the cafeteria? No one says, why are the white people sitting together in the cafeteria? Why are the white men alone in the conference room, right? All of this has to do with the anxiety that race raises in the United States, right, in particular. So when a white person asks, why are all the black people sitting together? It might be their desire to see more integration. When I would walk into a school that was desegregating, for example, back in the 90s,

and somebody asked that question, it was usually because they were thinking, gosh, we're trying to bring kids together. Why are they still separating? At the same time, sometimes it's an expression of anxiety, like what are they talking about? What, you know, what's going on over there? How, I don't know what's happening. Is there a threat to me? You know, sometimes I use as an analogy, the experience, if you travel to a foreign country and you don't speak the native language. You're an English speaker. You don't speak the language. And you happen to be at the airport and you hear other people speaking English. You're going to be drawn to them because they're going to understand you. It's not that you're rejecting the people who speak the language you don't know.

It's just that you feel more comfortable with people who have experiences like yours. What I often say is, I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up.

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together in the cafeteria? Where are the Black kids sitting in the classroom? Which classrooms are they in? Are they being tracked out of the AP and honors classes? Are they involved in classroom activities where kids are working across lines of difference? These are the things that educators should be asking about. hatred on the streets a horrific scene a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence white people are losing their damn minds there's an angry pro-trump mob storm to the u.s capital we're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history.

Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the rise of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. There's all the Proud Boys. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. Hey, what's up, y'all? I'm Devon Frank. I'm Dr. Robin B., pharmacist and fitness coach,

and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. I was at, I think we had a National Association of Black Journalists regional conference several years ago, I think it was in Houston. And I had a student, a sister who came up to me and she was an African-American student at Texas A&M, my alma mater. And she came up to me and she said, hey, I'd love to talk to you. She said, I often hear you talk about when you were at A&M and your experience. And she said, you know, I'm just, she said, you know, what bothers me is, you know, when, you know, I go into the cafeteria and she said, you know, I, you know, I see the white students and they don't want to sit with us and they don't speak to us. And I was like, okay. And so she was just talking about how that really bothered her.

I said, so I'm curious. I said, have I'm curious. I said, have you ever went to go sit with them? She's like, what do you mean? I said, well, if you're in the cafeteria, have you ever walked over and said, hey, love to sit here? And she was confused. I said, has it dawned on you that you're going to a university and just like a lot of the black students who come from largely black places, I said, your white counterparts are coming from largely white places as well. She says, what do you mean? I said, well, it's literally the same thing. The fact of the matter is where we grow up largely is racially exclusive.

And so typically you're living in places that are mostly white or mostly black. I said, so I'm curious, you're asking of white students to do what you won't do. And she just sort of, she was just shocked that I said that. And she said, I never actually thought about it. I said, when you go back, I said, literally, just try it. You may be shocked with the response. And it was, and the thing that she was putting the onus on white students to come sit with her, and she never, ever thought of herself, I could go sit over there as well. Yes.

I just find it was just a fascinating conversation we had. And then how she literally was like, I never even thought to even do that. Yeah. Well, you know, your example is a good one in this sense. As you said, most people grow up in racially segregated communities. That's the nature of residential segregation in the United States. Almost anyone you talk to will have grown up in a neighborhood that was predominantly some group. They may have been one of the few, like I grew up as one of the few Black people in a predominantly white town.

You might be a white person who grew up as one of the few white people in a predominantly Black community, but most people are growing up in pretty segregated environments. And as a consequence, their experience with people who are different from them, different religiously, different racially or ethnically, is pretty limited. Colleges and universities offer one of the best opportunities for students to connect across lines of difference. But a lot of times, institutions think, well, just, you know, bring them all together, put them in the cafeteria, put them in the residence hall, put them in the classrooms, and the rest will take care of itself. But there is some learning, some scaffolding is the term I like to use, some help that students need to really learn how to

connect across those lines of difference, particularly in a society that is so contaminated by racial stereotypes and racist thinking that many of us have absorbed. In my book, I talk about it like breathing smog, not because we want to, not because we're bad people, but because that's just what we've been surrounded by. It's like breathing the air. So all of this misinformation about people different from ourselves is part of our socialization. And we have to figure out how do I move past that to make meaningful connections. And colleges and universities have a opportunity, I would argue a responsibility, to try to create those opportunities for that kind of learning. However, often the people who are doing that kind of scaffolding, that kind of experiential learning sit in the DEI office,

sit in the places that many public institutions are now saying, we don't want that, we don't need that, we're getting rid of that. And that means that some of the learning that we could really benefit from is not going to take place. So let's talk about what I like to call fake inclusion. And so what I mean by that is, so I'm giving a speech, and this was Wilmington, Delaware, and it was their annual MLK program. And so they, so we're on stage. And so they had this sort of this Q&A and then in the Q&A first,

and then they had my keynote speech. And so they had all these students on stage, the black, the white, the Asian, the Latino, sitting here, they're talking about all this racially diverse school, and they're going on and on and on about how wonderful things are. And I'm standing there going, this is some bullshit. People are lying.

I'm like, people are lying. So when they go through the part, so I get up and I start asking questions. And what's funny is, again, with your book title, I literally go right to, I said, I'm just curious. Who do y'all eat with? And they're all like, well, what do you mean? You eat with each other? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I said, you're in the cafeteria.

I said, who do you actually eat with? And so, and I can, and they had all their parents and everybody's in the audience. So I can tell, there's a thing that I call, I call it butt dancing. I do that whenever I make fun, I'm comfortable on a debate, on television debate. We're sort of the same thing in the audience where you can hear the people like. Just squirming in the seat, yes. Squirming in their seats. So I say, oh, a lot of butt dancing on this room.

And so then, so I basically totally call out this faux inclusion they have. But then I turned to the parents and I said, it's actually your fault. And the whole audience was like, oh my God. I said, because here's my question. Who sits at your dinner table? Yes.

I said, who do you invite over to your house? And they also like start like, they didn't want to, like, look at each other, but they were sort of like, where in the hell is he going? I said, the reality is we're having a fake inclusion conversation up here because y'all are perpetrating a fraud by saying that, oh, everyone is getting along. I said, when in fact the matter is, I said, you're not eating together. You're not communicating. I said, you're fact the matter is, I said, you're not eating together. You're not communicating.

I said, you're going your separate ways. And I said, and you adults, I said, you literally are not inviting people of other races to your house for dinner. I said, so who are you actually fooling? That completely changed the entire program. And they were like, I can't believe you went there. I said, I said, because I can't have these fake diversity conversations and we're not going to be real. Yeah, well, you're exactly right that there was a survey that I cite in my book that talks about the fact that 75% of white adults reported in this survey, it was a national survey, of, you know,

who do you spend time with? Who's in your social network? And 75% of white adults reported not knowing any people of color, basically, that all of, everyone in their social network, their neighbors, their friends, everyone they hung out with, all of those people were white. And so, if that's your experience as an adult, it's likely your child's experience too.

Because even if they're going to a school that's got some diversity in it, who they're playing with in the neighborhood, who's coming over for the birthday party, all that kind of stuff is likely to be pretty homogeneous, pretty racially homogeneous. Which is why 75% of white people can say they don't have white friends. I mean, excuse me, don't have friends of color. So, but on the other hand, parents who have relationships, real relationships like the kind you're talking about, where people come over to the house, where you do things together, people who have cross-racial relationships have children with cross-racial relationships. Now, Jim Wallace told me this story. I got a kick out of this. So Jim said whenever he goes,

whenever he's invited to someone's house for dinner, Jim says, I'd like to go look at their, and granted, this is before streaming. Yeah. I want to look at their album collection. Um, they're... And granted, this is before, um, streaming. Uh, he said, I want to look at their album collection. Mm-hmm. He said, uh, and this obviously before streaming, he says, I want to look at their VHS tape or their DVD collection.

And he said, then I want to look at their libraries. And he said, because, he said, the music you listen to, the movies you watch, and the books you read also is the greatest tell as to how diverse your thinking is. And I thought that was fascinating that he said he did that. that, but it's actually true in terms of what we listen to, watch, and read is a clear example of really who we are. For sure, yes. It's definitely a reflection of culture. It's definitely a

reflection of socialization. You know, a friend of mine recently had a baby and I like to give new parents books for their babies, you know, those hard cardboard, thick page books that you can read with an infant. And this particular book of baby pictures had was the book was called Smile and it had pictures of all these different smiling babies. But on the cover, there was an Asian baby. And my husband said to me, is the baby, you know, are the parents Asian? And I said, no. And I said, why do you think that?

And he said, because there's a, you know, Asian baby on the cover. And I said, yeah, but look through the pictures, you know, there were kids of all backgrounds. It just happened to be that the Asian one was on the front. And the parents I gave the book to happened to be Black. But the point of giving that book is that it's important for babies to see faces of all kinds. We have a friend, a young psychologist, her name is Dr. Charisse Pickron. She studies babies

and how they come to understand racial differences. And one of the things I learned from her was that babies notice physical appearance, right? They notice physical features and they grow comfortable with the faces they see most commonly. Of course, you know, their parents' faces. So if the family faces are all one kind, if the friends' faces are all one kind, they learn to recognize those kinds of faces.

They're suspicious of faces that look different. That doesn't mean the babies are, quote, prejudiced. But it does mean if you want your children to be accepting of other people, introduce them to their images early on because it makes a difference in how comfortable they feel around people who look different from themselves. That was a pivotal, pivotal time. I remember Kevin Hart telling me that. He's like, man, what you doing, man? You gotta stay on stage. And I was like, yeah, but I'm like, you know, y'all don't think I'm like, I'm good.

And he was absolutely right. What show was the other time? This was one-on-one. Got it. During that time. And I was- So you're doing one-on-one. Yeah. Going great. Yeah. You making money. You like- I'm like, I don't need to leave.

I don't need to leave from Wednesday, Thursday to Sunday. I just didn't want to do that. You know, it was just like, I'm gonna stay here. Oh, I didn't want to finish work Friday, fly out, go do a gig Saturday, Sunday. I was like, I don't have to do that. And I lost a little bit of that hunger that I had in New York. I would hit all the clubs and run around.

You know, sometimes me and Chappelle or me and this one or that one, we'd go to the Comedy Cellar at one in the morning. I mean, that was our life. We loved it. You know, you do two shows in Manhattan, go to Brooklyn, leave Brooklyn, go to Queens, go to Jersey, and I kinda just, I got complacent.

I was like, I got this money, I'm good. I don't need to go, I don't need to go chase that because that money wasn't at the same level that I was making, but what I was missing was that training. Yes. Was that, was that. And it wasn't the money. It was the money, you know, it was that,

that's what I needed. We'll be right back. I think about, uh, who's the rapper? Uh, I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st.

And episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush.

What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves.

We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's Dadication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov.

Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. It was a little white. And he had made this comment that he's like, oh, I don't, I haven't experienced racism. I don't see racism because when I look out into my crowd, I see lots of white kids dancing to my music. And of course, I've had to laugh at that because Lil Wayne clearly was utterly and completely clueless about the reality that if you were Harry Belafonte or Dorothy Dandridge or any singer in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s, you can look out and see a whole bunch of white kids dancing to your music, and they can be racist as hell. And I think that's

also part of this. You alluded to this earlier, where you said a lot of educators just figure, hey, look, we'll just put them all in the same room. It's going to sort itself out, when the reality is that is not the case just because uh that a person is bringing their racial views their gender views uh with them and they can sit here and say um like oh i i like you i enjoy your company but uh that that's you still can't be around me. I guess that was a scene from One Night in Miami where there was this white guy who befriended Jim Brown and

told me how he loved and respected Jim, but then his daughter came out and said they needed something moved in the house, and Jim said, I'll help you. He goes, oh no, Jim, I got it. He's like, no, I can help you. He's like, no, niggas not allowed in my house. I remember help you. He goes, oh, no, Jim, I got it. He's like, no, I can help you. He's like, no, niggas not allowed in my house. I remember that scene. And that's, so I'm always trying to explain to people that you need to understand.

Somebody could give you the veneer of, oh, no, no, no, we're friendly, but they still are carrying that other thing around that is still there. And so we can't just make these just automatic assumptions that, oh, everything is great, wonderful, perfect. No, you still got to break those internal walls down. Yes. And that's one of the things that people find so difficult to do. One of the points of my book, I often describe my book as having three parts. I like to call them what, so what, and now what. And the first part is what. What is racism and how does it operate? How do we understand it as not just somebody's individual attitudes, but really something that exists that is reinforced systemically by policies and practices in our environment and in the images we see and the comments we hear people make as we're growing up. It's part of the air we breathe. And that systemic experience leads to the so what. So what

does it mean in terms of how we think about ourselves, in terms of our own racial or ethnic identity, and how we think about other people and how we interact with them? Much like the example you gave of the young person who, you know, you said, well, have you ever considered sitting at their table? You know, that is part of the so what in terms of how we've been socialized and how we think we're supposed to engage or interact with others. And then that part of the book that's the now what now what do we do about it? If we recognize it as a problem, what do we do to

interrupt it? And that part, trying to excavate our own assumptions, our own biases, that's hard work. And it's part of the work that, you know, many people are saying, you know what, it makes me uncomfortable. I'd rather not do it. Thank you very much. Just let me go on about my business. And you know what, if you don't talk about it, I won't have to think about it. Thank you very much. Just let me go on about my business. And you know what, if you don't talk about it, I won't have to think about it. So let's just make it hard for people to have these conversations. But in fact, the conversation is necessary in order to move us forward. I'm sure this has happened, but give me an example where, and I know, knowing you, I know you did this. An example of you're somewhere,

it's a conference or it's a meeting or whatever, and you literally saw your book in action and you were like, yeah, we about to break this up. We about to mix this up. Give me an example of where that happened and what was the reaction with these so-called well-meaning people who you were with. I'm going to give you a different example, but it speaks to your now what. I was talking about how racism works in our society, how it's part of all of our socialization,

how it affects us and what we can do about it. And just before I spoke, just before I spoke, a member of the organizing team for this conference stood up and said there was gonna be a caucus group for the black people in attendance, right? So basically this person spoke up and said there was going to be a caucus group for the Black people in attendance, right? So basically, this person spoke up and said, you know, tomorrow morning at breakfast, the Black social workers, it wasn't a social work conference, but you know, the Black attendees are going to get together for a affinity group. And then I gave my speech. So at the end of my talk, it was Q&A, and a white woman stood up, and she said, she was very agitated, and she said, how would you feel if at the beginning of your talk someone had stood up and said, you know, tomorrow morning all the white people should get together for an affinity group. And I said, this might

surprise you, Roland, but I said, I think that would be a good idea. And she looked stunned. But what did I mean by that? What I meant is that there can be value in groups getting together with people like themselves to talk about understanding racism. There are experiences that white people can talk about and share with each other that help them become more able to interrupt racism. You know, some of that scene you talked about from the movie with Jim Brown, let's imagine that there is a young person who grew up in that family, who grew up knowing that you can be friendly

with black people, but never let them in your house. Let's imagine that was a message they grew up with. And now they find themselves in the workplace struggling to get over that early socialization. That's a conversation black people don't need to hear. But other white people who recognize and have had similar experiences could be helpful, could say, you know, I felt that way when I was growing up, but here's what I found out. And now I feel that I can be more effective when I do these things. Let me share with you what's worked for me.

That kind of white person to white person conversation could be really valuable. In the meantime, the people of color, in this case, maybe black people, though not only black people, right? But other people of color can benefit from talking to each other about, how do you cope with that situation at work?

What do you say when someone consistently mispronounces your name or consistently wants to talk about your hair or consistently, how do you interrupt those microaggressions in a way that allows you to not wear yourself out completely? How do you find allies in the organization? There are conversations that the people of color want to have with each other that can be very useful. That's what affinity groups are about. And there are conversations that white people could have with each other about how they are unlearning

their own racism that they were socialized with from the past. And then you can also create opportunities for cross-group interaction, which will be much more productive, especially if there's been some pre-work that's been done by the white participants. What you just said there, I've said numerous times that white America could greatly benefit if we had a million or more Jane Elliotts and Tim Wise. And the reality is

when the Jane Elliotts of the world are having these conversations, absolutely. I mean, sure, as Black folks, we can learn a lot from it. And she and I did a session together at the University of Michigan, and it was fabulous. But I'm like, white folks, that's what y'all need to be listening to. And I think that, and what I actually argue in my book, White Fear, I say that if we're going to move beyond this, it's going to take white people

having conversations amongst white people because they are saying stuff that when we're not present is totally different when we're present. I said, so you need conscious white folks to really be pushing the envelope here. And when someone said something, addressing it right there, when they're doing something, I said, because otherwise, again, we keep having what I keep saying

of these fake dialogues that are not real. I think when you mentioned earlier President Bill Clinton, when they had those, I don't even know what the heck he even called it because I thought they were a joke, those racial conciliation talks, whatever. The reason i thought they were bs is because oh they want to keep certain people out i'm like no no no they have to be raw and real to get at the fundamental core they they're not going to be these are not going to be nice wonderful easy going discussions yeah not yeah one of the things that we know, and by we, I mean social scientists, people who do the work that I do and write about the things that you and I write about. One of the things we know is that one time conversations don't work. raw conversation like you just talked about and where people are sharing honestly. And unless there's a second and a third and a fourth conversation, what is likely to happen after

that first one is that people may have some aha moments, but they're also going to feel anxiety. They're also going to feel tension. They're also going to feel discomfort. And what do people do when they experience discomfort? They typically withdraw. They tip, you know, if you know that something causes you discomfort, you don't want to do it. You usually have tried to avoid it. But when people make a commitment and there are places all around the country where this is happening, when people make a commitment to say, you know what, we are going to be in dialogue with each other. We're going to do it for, let's say, six weeks. And maybe the first week is going to be hard. And the second week is going to be in dialogue with each other. We're going to do it for, let's say, six weeks,

and maybe the first week is going to be hard, and the second week is going to be hard, the third week is going to be hard. But by the time we get to the fourth week, we might start to be hearing each other in a different way. We might start to have some of that discomfort that I was talking about is now going to feel like excitement, anticipation, because I recognize that I'm learning. And I want to keep learning and I want to keep engaging because I want my life to be different. I describe some of this in my book, particularly in the section around now what, because it's those consistent conversations across lines of difference that can lead to the kind of empathy, the kind of transformational understanding that leads not just to, you know, a psychological awareness, but leads to action. Why do people take

action? They take action because they feel like somebody they care about is being hurt. When you care about other people, when you have empathy with those people, because you've gotten to know them, you speak up about it. And that is really what we need to have. More and more people speaking up, even if they believe they're not directly impacted. The reality is we're all impacted, even if we don't know it. But even when we believe it's not our issue, when we're speaking up about something that is hurting someone else, when we're engaging in that kind of ally behavior, we start to see change. And we have to say it. This and I did this in my book and people like Kimberly, you did that. This also means white progressives, so-called white liberals, are going to have to be honest. Coming up next on The Frequency, right here on the Black Star Network, Shanita Hubbard.

We're talking about the ride or die chick. We're breaking it down. The stereotype of the strong black woman. Some of us are operating with it as if it's a badge of honor. Like you even hear black women like aspiring to be this ride or die chick. Aspiring to be this strong black woman. So at their

own expense. Next on The Frequency right here on the Black Star Network. I'm Farai Muhammad, live from LA, and this is The Culture. The Culture is a two-way conversation, you and me. We talk about the stories, politics, the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. So join our community every day at 3 p.m. Eastern and let your voice be heard. Hey, we're all in this together. So let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into. It's The Culture.

Weekdays at 3, only on the Blackstar Network. Bruce Smith, creator and executive producer of Proud Family, Louder and Prouder. You're watching Roland Martin, Unkilled. I think when we have this conversation too often, people try to frame this as, well, you know, for these white conservatives. No, it's a whole bunch of white liberals who are as just as ignorant and clueless as white conservatives on this issue of race? In my experience, it is often the people who think of themselves

as most progressive who are the most resistant to new information in a way because they feel like, yeah, I get that. I understand that. You don't need to tell me. I got it, right?

But as a... I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams,

NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes, rather than a bachelor's degree.

It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. ...posed to someone who knows they don't know. I don't know. I haven't had this conversation. I never talk about these things. We all need a kind of humility. Everybody has something to learn.

And if we understand that, it makes the conversation that much more useful. You talked about in terms of King called it, where do we go from here? And you say, what now? What I'm seeing, and some will say, Daniel, you're pessimist. I'm like, no, I'm a realist. What I'm seeing is that all these assumptions, oh, as we move closer to 2043, we're going to become more racially, you know, you've become more, whites will not be the majority, how things are going to get so much better. And yes, things have indeed gotten better. Things have improved. But I do believe that there is a heartening that has taken place. Yes.

And that heartening of hearts and minds is tied to power. It is tied to money. It is tied to, we have run this, this has, this shit has been ours. And our view has dominated everything. And we ain't trying to share with nobody. And I just think that is, that we have to confront that aspect because here we're trying,

because we're sitting here going african-americans latinos asian americans going hey we now have a voice we now get to have a say so i think that the backlash against the 1619 project which first of all ain't new i mean everybody and larone bennett and others were writing about those things for i mean got decades one before the 1619 project and that's no shade shade on Nicole Hannah-Jones, but this has been going on for decades for Black folks. But I really think it all struck a nerve because they really were like, how dare you

now redefine what we have already defined? And I think that heartening is what people are going to have to confront as we move over the next, I would say, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. One of the things we haven't talked about, which I think is related to that hardening, is the population change, right? You know, when I wrote my book in 1997 and then I updated it in 2017, people often ask me, you know, what has changed? And I like to talk about the four Ps. And by those four Ps, I talk about population, politics, polarization, and psychology. There have been changes in all of those things where more politics have changed, where more polarized psychological understanding of

some of the things I write about has grown over the last 20 years. But the first one, population, I think really needs to be highlighted here because I'm not embarrassed to tell you I was born in 1954. And in 1954, the U.S. population was 90% white, 10% everybody else. 90% white, 10%, not just 10% Black, 10% Black, Latino, Asian, Indigenous, Native American, all of that grouped together, all of those people of color represented 10% of the population. If you talk about the U.S. population today, particularly if you talk about the population of young people 20 years and younger, that population is about 50% white. Increasingly, you know, might be 49%, 51%. It's like hovering around 50%. That's a big change. If you're used to being nine out of 10 of the people in the room, and now you're maybe not always in the majority, maybe now you're used to being nine out of 10 of the people in the room, and now you're maybe not always in

the majority, maybe now you're only half, that is a significant shift. And your title, the book of your title, your book is titled White Fear. There is fear in that sense. You hear it when people talk about, you know, the population is changing. We don't want more immigration. You know, when Trump said, you know, why can't we get immigrants from Norway? You know, that was all about, we don't want the racial character of our nation to continue to change.

But the world's population is a black and brown population in majority, right? So unless you're limiting yourself to Europe, you're gonna have that kind of diversity. And unless we change how we do things around here, those Europeans are perfectly happy where they are. So all of this is to say that shift in our population is something that we don't often name,

but I think is driving a lot of this hardening. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that, that, that, that's the core of my book and I just had just to say it, I'm like, y'all, this is, this is what's going on. And I, and I think as African-Americans, we've got to also stop being in la la land. And what I mean by that is, you know, you've got to also stop being in la-la land. And what I mean by that is, you know, you've got, and I get it. I mean, each successive generation doesn't want to relitigate what happened in the past. But the reality is, what I say to young African-Americans today, yo, wake the hell up. Like, you better connect

the dots between what happened 150, 200, 300, 350 years ago to what's happening now, because literally it's right before you. I mean, what you're seeing now is the exact same thing that happened after Reconstruction. Yes. That same thing that happened after World War I, after World War II, after the Black Freedom Movement, some call it the Civil Rights Movement. I'm like, y'all, this ain't no different. And so if you look at how we dealt with that, how we got through that, it gives you a blueprint to know how do we move forward. And I just think that there are some people who there's some African-Americans who kind of like, oh, you know, Roland, you bring up those history stuff. It doesn't apply. I'm like, no, actually, it does. Yes. No, I often say, you know, we we hear that expression.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. I like to say those who don't know their history don't recognize when it's repeating. And it's important for us to understand. And I think that's why the attack on teaching a full understanding of American history is being waged as we speak, because people don't want you to know. But that is, in fact, I completely agree with you. If there's, you know, people often ask me if I could change education in some way, what would I do? And I often say I would increase the understanding of our history in its entirety. Yep, absolutely. I always ask authors this, and so I'll ask you, when you were writing this book, so actually I'm gonna, I want you to answer two ways.

One, what was your wow moment as you were researching and writing this book? Was there something that, again, caused you to go, wow? Yes. And I'm going to tell you what it is. So I wrote the book originally, as I mentioned, in 1997. But in 2017, I updated it completely. I often talk to people who read the earlier version. I always say you have to read the new version because there's a lot of new information in it. And at the beginning of the book, I wrote this prologue where I was reflecting on what had changed, what had happened over the last 20 years. And one of the things that struck me was what the experience of a young person who was born in 1997 would have been.

And I'm just going to give you some highlights. If you were born in 1997, you were four years old when 9-11 happened. 2001, right? So you're four years old when 9-11 happened. And that's going to shape how our country is talking about immigrants, particularly people from the Middle East. And then you are 11 years old in 2008. Two things happened in 2008. One, the economy tanks.

And so maybe that's had a devastating impact on your family situation and their economic situation maybe. But also in the context of this conversation, Barack Obama was elected. He was president for eight years. So from the time that you were 11 to the time that you were 19, you're seeing a Black family in the White House. And that's your view of how life is in America, right? A Black man can be the president. But then along the way, 2012, Trayvon Martin is killed. When that happened, you were 15 years old. No, excuse me. He was killed in 2009. You were 12 years old when that happened.

Ferguson uprising, you were 15 when that's happening. And Black Lives Matter all of a sudden is on everybody's tongue. And then you're 19, maybe voting for the first time, and Donald Trump is elected president with all the rhetoric, all the racial rhetoric surrounding that election. If that's your experience of the world, I was born in 54 when, you know, I was 13 when Martin Luther King was assassinated. You know, that was a significant moment in my understanding of how the world works. I was in high school when, you know, busing was taking place. I grew

up in Massachusetts and busing was taking place in Boston with white people rioting in the streets about that busing. But also because you were born in 54, you were not as impacted as those before you by Brown versus Board of Education. Exactly. Exactly. And by Emmett Till. Exactly. And so the era that you grow up in shapes your view of the world. Now, my view of the world growing up in 54, you know, I saw a lot of change.

Voting Rights Act in 65. You know, and so I have this sense of possibility that because I've seen change happen, but if you started in, if you were, you started at zero, if you're born in 1997 and now you're, you know, in your twenties and someone says, well, is it getting better? Do you think it's getting better? Do you think it's getting worse? You know, and what's your sense of possibility? Just that, aha, like, look at all these things that have shaped this generation of students, not to mention school shootings. I didn't even mention that. The view of what's possible is shaped a lot by that. Oh, no, you're absolutely right. And I think that, and see, for me,

see, I've always called myself a post-civil rights movement baby. I was born November 14th, 1968. And I've always used King's assassination sort of as the marker, if you will. King's assassination and Nixon's election sort of as really the end of the civil rights movement. And again, so how you look at those things, but that's also why I just

think that history is so important because although I'm born November 68, by having an appreciation and understanding of those previous 13 years, going back to Montgomery Bus Boycott, and then Emmett Till, then Bruce Brown versus Board of Education, then A. Philip Randolph, Pullman Porters. Again, now I'm able, and then going back further, further, further, now having a much broader understanding and can now think differently, and I just think that's the challenge for so many people. So, wow, 26 years. And why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria still is as relevant today

as it was then, which means that's when you know it's a good book when it still can resonate with folks all these years later. Doc, always good to see you. It's great to see you. Thanks for having me. Thanks a bunch. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes.

We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey.

We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like, he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit AdoptUSKids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids,

the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. This is an iHeart Podcast.