#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Biden announces new eviction ban; Black Women's Equal Pay Day; NYC mandates vax for indoor dining

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

8.3.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Biden announces new eviction ban, Rep. Maxine Waters talks eviction moratorium; Today is Black Women's Equal Pay Day; NYC mandates COVID vax for indoor dining, gyms; Cuomo urged to resign after probe finds he harassed 11 women; Five FL cops face assault charges after using excessive force against 2 Black men; An Indiana community activist is facing multiple charges in an incident where he was the victim. BLM protestors settle with Iowa state after they were banned from the state capitol; #TheMarketplace: Thee Audacity Women's Initiative + Roland's Book Club takes a look at journalist Audrey Edwards' "American Runaway".Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. today is tuesday august 3rd 2021 coming up on roland martin unfiltered more than 7 million people including children facing eviction and homelessness because of the expiration of the CDC eviction moratorium. Talk with California Congresswoman Maxine Waters about what the White House plans to announce regarding this issue today is black women's

equal payday. Black women are only making 63 cents for every dollar white men make will be joined by Glenda Carr of Higher Heights for America to discuss that. New York City is the first place in the country to say that people who want to eat indoors must show proof of a COVID vaccine. And an independent investigation concluded that New York Governor Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed multiple women who worked for him as well as those who did not work for him.

Many, including President Biden, are calling for him to resign. In Florida, five Miami Beach police officers have been charged with first-degree battery for the vicious beating of a suspect. In Iowa, five Black Lives Matter protesters settled with the state for banning them from the state capital. And in Indiana, a community activist is facing murder charges in an incident where he was the lynching victim. And in our Next Door Marketplace segment, the co-founder of Three Audacity Women's Initiative will tell you how her organization helps black entrepreneurs produce overhead and increase their profits. And John Hope Bryan, founder of Operation Hope, will join us to talk about Will Smith, Jay-Z, investing in a company that owns rental properties. So why are black people taking shots at them? John will explain how that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. He's knowing, putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling, yeah It's Uncle Roro, yo Yeah, yeah It's Rolling Martin, yeah Yeah, yeah Rolling with rolling now

Yeah, yeah He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best, you know he's rolling, Martin. Martin. Black caucus members have been leading the effort to address the expiring moratorium on evictions. Over the weekend, Congresswoman Cori Bush of St. Louis, she actually was sleeping outside of the U.S. Capitol to dramatize this very important issue. She was joined by Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley and others. What was happening on the inside, Congresswoman Maxine Waters was meeting with Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other top Democrats to deal

with this issue. Remember, the Centers for Disease Control used their power to issue a moratorium on evicting people from their homes due to COVID. Well, that expired over the weekend. Significant pressure was being placed on the White House to use

their powers to extend that they were suggesting that they could to extend that. They were suggesting that they could not do that. Others said they could. Now we're hearing the White House plans to actually do that tomorrow. Joining us right now is California Congresswoman Maxine Waters, of course. She always glad to have you on the show. Again, you had the end. Well, I keep telling people, Congresswoman, you got the inside game. You got the outside game. You got the internal pressure, the external pressure. You had Congresswoman Cori Bush sleeping outside to dramatize this important issue of evictions. You were on the inside, meet with the folks trying to negotiate a deal. Tell us what's actually going to happen.

Well, thank you so very much for giving coverage to this very important issue. As you alluded to, the moratorium expired basically on Saturday, Saturday night. And so here we were faced with the possible evictions of maybe 11 million families at risk. And so we were caught by surprise when we got a late notice from the White House that the president was telling us that Congress needed to do whatever had to be done to expand and to make sure that the moratorium was continued. And we were not ready for that because we were about to leave, you know, to go on the break in August that we normally do. And so what was being said to us by the president was something that possibly could not happen, but I tried. I put together a piece of legislation and worked with the leadership. And we were not able to get it up on the floor because basically the Republicans rejected what would have been a unanimous request.

And so knowing that, I and Nancy Pelosi and others always believed anyway that the president should use the power of his office, working with the CDC, to go ahead, despite all of this talk about what the Supreme Court had said or done. I, for one, did not believe that what the Supreme Court had done with the case that they was working on should be applied to this emergency that we have now, and that the president should have moved forward in order to get the CDC to do what it had done in the past, and that is extend that moratorium. And so we kept saying it over and over again. We were joined in that effort by many of the members of Congress. This is an emergency, and it's got to be done now.

The Congress is not coming back into session, not going to be called back, and we're not going to be able to get them all back. And we know that we don't have all of the votes that we need anyway to get this done. So this is the responsibility of the president of the United States and the CDC. And so with that, what we're learning now is that this is being treated as a new kind of protection and moratorium that is not an extension of the last one, which legally could get around all of those accusations about the CDC not being legally allowed to discontinue, to continue, rather, the moratorium. And so we will expect—we heard a little bit from the president when he came out just a short while ago and said that the CDC would be making an announcement. Well, Roland, I want to tell you, this emergency is so important that you did see an inside outside kind of effort being made. Those young people and members of the squad

and others who slept out really did draw attention to this national issue, this emergency that we have. And in doing that, I think that they got a lot of people in this country really understanding that the money is there. I put into the bill $46.6 billion, worked very hard with my staff to do that. And as you know, we have housing is infrastructure, another kind of effort that we're doing that talks about this country has got to get ready to know that renters must be protected, that people who are out there eligible

for rental assistance who are waiting with, you know, on Section 8, this stuff has got to stop. And so I think this is bringing all of this to the forefront. But we know this, and those of us who are working on this, we know that we cannot sit—stand by or sit by and allow these children and these families to be put out on the sidewalk. We know that it's unconscionable to have the money in the hands of the states and the governors and they not implement this program and know how to utilize this money, how to staff up and how to get it done. I have worked with Yellen, secretary of the Treasury, and I said the forms have to be

simplified, that many people who are trying to, you know, make the application just can't handle the Internet and the way that these forms are, you know, laid out and the information they have to gather and get in order to be eligible. We got to do away with a lot of that. We have got to make sure that we find out from the governors what's stopping you, what is your problem. Are you saying that you don't have enough staff? Well, Yellen has said, let me work with you on that. And she's put her staff together to do that. So now with the unveiling of what CDC is going to do and what they're going to roll out with, I think this will give us a period of time to really put the push on to get these applications done.

Once the renter makes the application and it's accepted, the money automatically goes to the landlords. And I'm worried about these small landlords with two, four, six, eight, ten units. This is their retirement income. Many of them still have mortgages they have to pay. But if we expect them to keep up the property and make sure that the plumbing and the electricity and all that's working, they've got to be paid. And I am convinced that we can get this done. We have to get it done. And I'm for the renters and I'm for the landlords, the small ones in particular. And I think the fight that we have been putting up is reaping us some benefits now. This emergency is being addressed, and this is what we were fighting for. Let's see how long that the protection will last so that by the time it lasts, we'll be ready

to take the next step to do what we need to do in order to make sure that all of this money that we have appropriated will be used, that will be reused correctly, and that we will protect these renters. Yesterday, I was covering the Poor People's Campaign National Moral Monday here in D.C., and Reverend Dr. William J. Barber referenced what Congressman Cori Bush was doing. These are some of the photos from her Twitter page where they were out there at the Capitol. And one of the things that he said and he said that was important, he said, he said, isn't it amazing how this country was was real quick to real quick. Congress was able to find the money for major corporations, airlines and others who were impacted by covid. Here we're talking about 7 million people.

We're talking about people who are still dealing with not just the cost, if you will, but still dealing with daycare, still dealing with hours being cut, all of those things. And it's amazing how folk in Congress are real good, are real good at finding resources for corporate America. But when it comes to poor folks, when it comes to broke folks, folks who work, when it comes to people who are the frontline workers, ah, it's, you know, we don't have it. It's just a little tight. We don't know how we're going to pay for it. You know, the shame of this is the money is there. I know. I put the money in the budget.

I work with my staff. Forty six point six billion dollars. The money is there in the hands of the governors and the states. We sent the money to them. And so the lack of resources is not an excuse for not getting this done. But I want to tell you that these governors and these some of the mayors, et cetera, they just didn't know how to get it done. They didn't know how to take all of these resources we put in their hands and make it work. And so we're saying to them, you've got to get it done. And in the period of time that this moratorium is going to be extended, we've got to do everything that we can working with the governors and the churches and legal aid and nonprofits and all of that to help people. And this business about expecting everybody to know how to go on the computer

and make application has got to stop. We have too many communities that are not computerized. Congresswoman, I was literally having a conversation today. It was a brother. He was a businessman out of Atlanta. We were playing golf and we were talking about COVID. And I said COVID exposed so much in this country. It exposed people to understand that for those of us where it's second nature to have a computer and three iPads and two iPhones and, oh my goodness, we got 250 megabits per second up and down, you know, Wi-Fi. That's not a whole lot of people.

And, yeah, people go, hey, sign up, go online. And the people going, what are you talking about? I remember doing one of the debates. A lot of black people got mad when Biden made this comment about African-Americans and others not being able to go online. People like, oh, Biden said, oh, we don't know how to go online. No, what he's saying is there are places where they don't have Wi-Fi, where they can't afford to actually do it.

There are rural places in this country where they can't. And yes, there are a lot of people, it's just simply, they're not walking around with smartphones. Hell, their most advanced phone is still a flip phone. And so we got to stop being, let's just be clear, tech technology snobs and arrogant and somehow assuming that everybody knows

how to use this stuff when they simply don't. And what we've got to do is, when we have these kinds of efforts, we've got to make sure that we have opportunities for people who are not computer literate, who don't use computers. When, you know, I think about a lot of the grandmothers that are raising their grandchildren and they're doing everything that they can,

but they can't get on the computer and go online and do these applications. And we found that out with the children who were out of school. And, you know, these middle class, upper middle class communities were doing homeschooling, and they were, you know, dealing with the problem of the kids not being in school, but mother or fathers or relatives or whomever would help with doing the education that was needed while they were not in school by homeschooling, et cetera.

Do you know how many poor families, how many families of color did not have the opportunity to do the homeschooling in the way that they were saying this was the alternative, with the kids not being in school. And so that gap is going to be felt. And unless we have, you know, strong summer schools, and I don't know what's happening with Delta, if, in fact, you know, the schools are going to be able to work and to do what we want them to do to educate our children without all of them being put at risk, we have got to find a way by which whatever systems we're developing for whatever problems, that it is a dual system.

It's a system for those who use computers and who are computer literate and educated and all of that, and those who don't necessarily have them or have access to them. We've got to have a way for people to be able to manage their lives in this technology that we're all having to deal with. And, Congresswoman, for all the people out there, and let me just go ahead and say it, all y'all out there who bitch and moan, the CBC, they don't do anything.

This is a perfect example of what happens when you've got a CBC member, a veteran like yourself, chair of a committee that deals with the money. What happens when you've got younger CBC members who may not have the leadership, but they're using social media to dramatize a story. This deal does not happen, does not get extended if it is not for the work of the Congressional Black Caucus. Well, let me just tell you,

for people who complain or criticize, they really don't have an understanding of the work that we're done, work that is done that they don't see, they don't understand, they don't know about, the kinds of things that we are able to stop that would be detrimental to our communities, the fights that we have in the back room, the work that we do, the meetings that we hold. And I have stopped getting angry with people who don't know. I just do, whether you know it or not. We just do it. All of our members of the Black Caucus are so committed to ensuring

that we open up opportunities for fairness and justice. FOR FAIRNESS AND JUSTICE. I CREATED THE FIRST EVER SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION IN THE HISTORY OF THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES SO THAT WE CAN OPEN UP OPPORTUNITIES FOR NOT ONLY CAREERS IN FINANCIAL SERVICES BUT CONTRACTS AND OTHER KINDS OF THINGS.

WE'RE DEALING WITH THE BIG BANKS. WE GOT THE MDIs, that is the minority depository institutions, our black banks, and the CDFIs, the community financial development institutions. You know what? We've gotten them money, not only in the PPP, but joining, we got another $12.5 billion that we're getting to them now. People don't know this. They don't understand why they're going to be able to get that loan from their community bank now that they've got resources. But we do this work. And like I said, I don't even get angry with

people anymore who don't know it. We just do it because this is what we're committed to. And this is what we're going to do. And this is how we were able to show what we can do as we've been dealing with COVID-19 and the way that we pushed for our PPP and the way that we pushed for additional unemployment benefits and the stimulus money and for people on the front lines. That was people of color being at the table in a real serious way that was moving the

agenda. We're going to keep on doing it, too. Oh, and that's one of the reasons why I can tell people, you know, I've been talking to CBC members specifically about how this COVID money is being spent, what has not been going to Black-owned media, and now all of a sudden we tried to tell them,

you know, nine months ago, targeted plans, target communities. No, now all of a sudden they're trying to do that. And so, yeah, CBC members are there, and I've been talking to them directly. We're still trying to get these issues. So, great job, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, and the same goes to Congresswoman Cori Bush and all the other CBC members who put the work in to get this moratorium extended. Thank you so very much for your coverage.

Thank you so very much for your consistent unfolding the facts and helping people to learn as much as you possibly can about what is happening, what is going on, and who's doing what. I appreciate you. Thank you very, very much. Thanks a lot. Take care. Will do. Thank you.

All right, folks, let's go to our panel. Teresa Lundy, principal founder of TML Communications, Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali, former senior advisor for the Environmental Justice EPA, Amisha Cross, political analyst, Democratic Strategies. Amisha, I want to start with you. I mean, this is, I mean, again, for the people who, I'm telling you, it drives me crazy. And I got no problem if people offer a real criticism, if it's a substantive criticism. But there are things that actually happen, things that get placed into bills, things that get removed from bills that people have no idea happens from CBC members. And this is a perfect example of a lot of our people who are going to be impacted by this eviction moratorium ending. And now for this thing being extended, especially in the hardest hit areas of COVID, that is critically important. Absolutely. I think that Congresswoman Maxine

Waters took it away, really, not only in describing the dire straits that were about to face, are about to be faced by over 11 million people and being mindful that those were families, many of them single parents with young children, but also passing the buck where it needed to go. This, yes, had a — Congress has a role, but we can't forget that the White House could do something. And I think that that got lost and part of the conversation. In addition to that, we also have to remember that the states and local governments in particular kind of screwed the pooch when it came to the COVID-19 relief funding that included monies for a lot of these rentals and rental assistance. And those funds were never actually divvied up, regardless of whether the state was led by Democrats or conservatives.

And I think that that's something that we have to hearken back on, whether it's, okay, well, they didn't understand how to go about finding out who is actually qualifying or whether they didn't understand the paperwork or understaff. All of those things were considerations that we should have had months ago in terms of conversation around COVID-19 and where the rest of that relief package would go. Not knowing how to utilize a form doesn't stop a person from getting kicked out of their home. So I do think that there are some things that need to be done in terms of the divvying out of federal funds to the state and local government, acknowledging the fact that many of them are already underwater in terms of the staffing issues they have, but also their own computer literacy problems in many cases.

But beyond that, I think that we have to really lean in on the fact that people like Cori Bush worked so hard. And I was out there. I did spend a night at the Capitol as well, where she really put a spotlight on the issue. She had talked about it for a very long time. I know on Twitter there are so many people who argue that this was a last-minute push. It wasn't. Her and several others across Congress have been making the claim and staking the claim for there needing to be something done before the deadline hit and people were going to be sleeping out in the streets. That was the reality. And I think that this goes to show again that activism matters, that protests matter, that showing who you are and what you stand for makes a difference.

And that even in this very partisan political environment we happen to be in right now, we have to do something. And we have to remember that there are lives at stake. And in many cases like this, those lives included people in urban areas, rural areas, people, like you said, who are often forgotten about, but often those who look like us. A lot of black people, the majority of that 11 million, happen to be people who were Black and brown. But particularly Black communities across this country suffer the greatest when it comes to housing insecurity. We know that. And that's why the leadership of the CBC, that's why the progressives in Congress, that's why activists across this country have been pushing so hard to ensure housing equity, because it goes beyond the stopgap. And I think that we have to also remember this. The pause for COVID-19 is a stopgap measure. It has been extended. However, people are still in the rears. People are in the rears and rent before COVID-19 hit.

What happens once that stopgap is no longer available? There still has to be some level of congressional action. I think that Americans need to be waiting on that as well. What Amisha just said there and what the congresswoman said, Teresa, I cannot be ignored. And that is why we also focus on local elections. So the members of Congress do their job. Congresswoman Maxine Waters, she gets the money. But now the problem is governors and mayors. What the hell y'all doing? County commissioners, what are y'all doing? This is why I keep trying to tell people how these things are all are linked. You can't divorce one from the other. Absolutely. So it comes to, and I agree

with so much, you know, my colleague just referenced it because when we talk about local and state elections, we talk about the priorities. So, some of them, you know, again, we're in pandemic. So I know the business community in some areas have been on high alert. But then when we talk about the housing crisis and when it's time for eviction moratoriums, and to have that conversation and people getting kicked out of their homes, it becomes a very slippery slope, because some of those funds were already allocated to other initiatives and programs without really seeing the need for the seniors and

for those who may be at risk losing their homes, and did not see the pandemic coming into fruition in hindsight. So there is a lot of important details that do happen even on a state level. But I think the opportunity here is for the governors, is for the mayors. And it's unfortunate that it's happening at the last minute, but there is something that needs to be done for these families in order to not only, one, keep them in their homes, but also to prioritize them with the right sensibility, legislation, and program funding that is necessary for federal government in order for them to do

their jobs as well. You know, Mustafa, the point that I made to the congresswoman, it's amazing how Congress loves to make excuses to help the poor, but boy, we can hook up the rich real quick. Yeah, exactly. You know, each time that those who are already wealthy reach out they get what they need of course they have the lobbyists and they have the others who are there continually advocating for them and then of course they have congressional reps who are continually advocating for them as well you know we knew this was coming that's where i have a problem you know we knew the possibility of this actually happening. And for folks not to have their act together gives me pause. It gives me pause because we also know that there is a huge amount of money that's going to flow, whether

we're talking about the bipartisan infrastructure bill or a number of these other bills that will be coming. So what are we going to do to build real accountability to make sure that the states, the counties, and the local governments, one, have the capacity, and two, actually follow through? Because if we don't have real talk, we know that they have held dollars before that were critical in protecting people's lives and helping to make sure that they had a foundation underneath of them, a number of different dynamics. We know that in this country, at this particular moment, right here tonight, over 30 million people are dealing with the digital divide, which was raised

earlier. And we know that there are folks who can't or have not yet been able to utilize the tools that everybody else is using to kind of, you know, get in and get their resources and so forth and so forth, you know, and such. So we just got to make sure that we're actually moving forward and making the investments both on the human side and on the financial side to make sure that this process becomes more efficient and more streamlined, or our folks will continue to lose. And we just can't allow that to happen. We can't allow it to happen, Roland, because we got folks are literally getting kicked out of their houses in the middle of a pandemic. We're getting getting kicked out of their houses in the middle of a pandemic we're getting people kicked out of their houses dealing with these extreme heat events and other things that are going

on so folks are getting hit with these double and triple whammies that shouldn't have to go through this and then as the first panelist shared we also know what's coming in the sense that all this huge amount of debt that has been built up that we've got to make sure that we're finding a way to relieve people of that. So I'm looking forward to continuing to push on Capitol Hill and at the White House to do whatever I can and folks who are in my sphere to try and make that change. Well, one of the reasons why we are facing the situation

we're facing right now is, in fact, is Black folks don't get paid on the same level as white America, especially Black women. Across the nation, black women make 63 cents for every dollar that white men make. It takes up to 19 months to obtain the same amount of money that their white male counterparts do in a year. The question is, how do we change that? How can we do that with public policy? How are we pressing corporations to do their part? Glenda Carr is president and CEO of Howard Heights for America.

They, of course, are here to help black women get elected to office all across the country. Glenda, glad to have you back on Roller Barton Unfiltered. So this issue here, when we talk about equality in America, when we talk about fairness, we talk about freedom, we talk about saying, look, if I'm doing the job, pay me the same way you paying the cats over here. And we see how black men are impacted and how black women are impacted. And when we, by taking 19 months to make the same they make in 12 months, that's what happens, how you're never able to catch up, which impacts the ability to afford your rent, to afford daycare, to be able to buy cars, to be able to save money,

be able to build wealth. This is the economic downfall of Black America. Absolutely. I mean, this day reminds us that Black women work as hard as our counterparts, and we are paid less. And, Roland, be clear, that is Black women who are working in hourly wage jobs to women that are working, Black women that are working in the C-suites. When you say 19 months, right, that is 579 days more in a year. And you're exactly right. I penned an op-ed that ran on BET.com today. And it talked about, if we actually got our paid the whole dollar, not just the 63 cents, it's two-and-a-half years of child care we would be able to pay in our current job, 156 more weeks of food. When we're talking about the moratorium on rents, black women disproportionately are

evicted at a higher rate. If we were paid our whole dollar, that is 22 more months of rent. And in a lifetime of being paid less, it's the inability for black women to build wealth. And so, from a policy standpoint, how do you change it? Well, you know, at Higher Heights, one of the things I think we need to do is ensure that we're electing leaders that come from similar lived experiences. When we elect women, working women, mothers, women of color and Black women, they bring those lived experiences to city halls across this country, state legislatures across this country, and Congress, to be able to talk about why a wage disparity matters.

You know, when Kamala—Vice President Kamala Harris was in the Senate. She championed the Pay Chair Fairness Act. Ayanna Pressley, Brenda Lawrence, all the 26 Black women in Congress, this is an issue that they champion. New York Attorney General Tish James, who's in the news on something else today, right, Roland, certainly as the public advocate of the New York City, used her pulpit, her bully pulpit, not only to talk about fair wages for city workers, but also was able to use her influence in that office. And so black women elected leaders have been leading the way from a public policy perspective. But we also have to talk about how our private industry can ensure

that black women are paid fair wages, but, frankly, also talk about in the private sector about the transparency. Oftentimes, women don't know they're being paid less. So having some transparency in knowing what wages are. Be clear. Black women want what our counterparts want. We want economically thriving, educated, healthy and safe communities. And so, for everyday Black women, it is us not only calling out when we're not being paid a fair wage, but also levying and lobbying our elected officials on the importance of

how we can intersect public policy into this very important issues for black women. But let's just talk about, again, from a corporate America standpoint. You know, one of the things that I have been engaged in with others is this effort of targeting companies when it comes to their expenditure with black-owned media. And it's really interesting, Linda,

to talk to people who black folks who uh who will say why are y'all doing this i'm like well first of all most of y'all who's saying that don't own a damn thing so you're used to getting a check you're not used to endorsing the check there's a difference the thing that i keep trying to explain to folks is that we're not going to change this by allowing companies to continue to give us aid no it's investment in terms of contracts it's in in terms of pushing pushing that so now all of a sudden, when we start talking about how do we break through, it means, no, we're not interested in the $50,000, the $100,000 contract when over there they're signing the multimillion dollar deals. They're signing the $3 and $5 and

$10, $100, $200, $500 million dollar deals. That's how you begin to change the dynamics and change the game. In addition to our, I agree, our political power, recognizing our economic might as African Americans, but particularly black women, we are the economic drivers in this entire economy. And so when you talk about building wealth and being paid our fair wages, we actually rotate those dollars back into the economy, which means we're lifting not only our underpaid work building this new America, but we are then putting that money back into this America. And so black women need to at this time demand our return on our investments, right, our economic investments, our trips to the voting booth.

And we certainly, as we rotate those dollars into the community, into the economy, we need to be rotating those dollars into our own Black businesses and building our own businesses. As you are aware, Black women have started more small businesses than anybody else in this country. We have decided to leave the work force to build our own work, you know, to build our own companies. The problem is, as you know, we then are not invested in or do not have access to capital. So this notion of, even when we go and build our own businesses, we are still being given less money or lent less money. So we have to know

our own worth and knowing that we are the economic drivers. And part of that economic drivers then is we ought to be getting being paid fair wages. All right, then. Look, we certainly appreciate you joining us. I want to take, if I can, real quick questions from each one of our panelists. Teresa Lundy, your question for Glenda Carr. Yes. Well, one, thank you for standing up for women's rights. Myself, I became an entrepreneur because of the equal pay and the gap that exists. So one of my questions is, what can women do in the workplace to ensure that they are receiving equal pay for fair work? I would offer three scenarios, right? One is walk in when we're negotiating. Women often under-negotiate when we're entering into the workforce. And certainly, I think Black women oftentimes are positioned to think that we, you know, we should be thankful, that we should appreciate the job,

but we need to walk in and demand being paid our worth. I think it's important to do that investigation to see where the pay raises are and to literally call that question, may it be to HR or to senior management. And I certainly think that this is a public-private solution, that we need to look at the very policies that we can enact on the local, state and national level. But I do think that we have to call our public sector, our private sector to the table around how do we create transparent and fair wages in this country. JOHN YANG, Amicia. AMICIA WALSH, Thanks for being here. we create transparent and fair wages in this country? Amisha.

Thanks for being here. I agree with you 100 percent and have read your op-ed. It was very strong. My question is going to be around, as we know, not only do Black women hold the majority of small businesses across this country, but Black women also are the highest degree population in this country. With that comes an expensively high amount of student loan debt. That is also the highest in the country for Black people and people in general at the behest of Black women. So when we talk about this pay gap, there's also taking into consideration digging out of that massive student loan debt. In your view, how do Black women, regardless of the stage in their career that they are in, advocate for themselves in these career spaces, be it whether they're in nonprofits or government or the private sector, in regards to not only equal pay, but actually finding out?

Because, in many cases, they just don't know what other people are making within that same organization, because, as you mentioned earlier, a lot of that isn't even posted when you actually interview for a job. So, at what point are they given that information, and how can they best empower themselves and other Black women or women of color to advocate as well? That's a great question. I will actually answer something that you didn't ask, but it was a perfect segue into the discussion about public policy, which is black women, we have to look at the intersectionality of all these issues, right? So not only are we not paid the same for equal work, we actually are coming with more financial burden, right? We are oftentimes the breadwinners of our household. We are taking care of not only maybe underaged children,

but also we are taking care of someone in our family, maybe our parents or our grandparents. And then you add on student loan debt that we are disproportionately carrying a higher financial burden. And so as we look at a solution, it needs to be intersectional. So, I wholeheartedly agree with you. We can't just look at this as a one-stop shop from a policy perspective. But certainly, I do think there's a book that I was given when I graduated from college years ago called Success Runs in Our Race by George Frazier. And one of the things I think, when you talk about navigating our careers, may it be in the entry point, middle career, or in your, you know, as a professional, that

we need to utilize our networks more as African-Americans, and being able to have oftentimes our white counterparts do know how much others are making in a company or in an organization. And so, certainly, I think, as we build power from the voting booth, that we're building power in corporate America, that the best resource is actually utilizing not only our networks, informal networks, but also identifying our mentors and our sponsors that will help us to navigate in this second phase of our access to jobs across the country. Mustafa. Thank you for everything that you're doing. What should Black men be doing to

better support our sisters who are fighting to make sure that they have equal pay? Yeah, I mean, one, this conversation is important. Oftentimes, you know, you hear about equal pay? KAYLA TAYLOR- Yeah, I mean, one, this conversation is important. Oftentimes, you hear about Equal Pay Day. And Equal Pay Day is in usually late March, early April for white women and Asian women. And so, certainly, as you know, today is Equal Pay Day for black women. It's August. But our indigenous women have to work until September 8. Our Latina sisters have to work until September 8. Our Latina sisters have to work until October 21.

So, I definitely think it is a cross-ethnic coalition. And, certainly, I think men of color and black men play a pivotal role in knowing that there's a wage disparity. And although we're talking about the wage disparity between black women and white men. There's a wage disparity between Black women and Black men. Black men make more on average than Black women. And so I certainly see Black men being the ally to begin having the conversation, being able to call out in a private sector that the sister is making less than he is and may have more credentials, right? This is also—and oftentimes women are more credentialed, have more career experience, and still are making less.

And certainly, I think, you know, standing together to call for legislation across this country, both in Congress and to our city halls and state halls across this country, is important, because at the end of the day, when you pay black women their equal pay, all votes rise. And so helping black women, black men are helping to help our community economically thrive. All right. Linda Carr, we so appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Thanks for having us. All right, folks, got to go to a break. When we come back, let's talk about Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York. Ooh, did Tish James, the Attorney General, drop the hammer on him when it comes to sexual harassment? We're going to give

you all the details also on today's show. We'll talk about our marketplace segment, the issue of growing businesses, women entrepreneurs, but also why people upset with Jay-Z and Will Smith for investing $165 million into a company.

We'll break it all down for you right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. White supremacy ain't just about hurting black folk. Right. We've got to deal with it. It's injustice. It's wrong. I do feel like in this generation,

we've got to do more around being intentional and resolving conflict. You and I have always agreed. Yeah. But we agree on the big piece. Yeah. Our conflict is not about destruction. Conflict's gonna happen. Before Till's murder,

we saw struggle for civil rights as something grown-ups did. I feel that the generations before us have offered a lot of instruction. Organizing is really one of the only things that gives me the sanity and makes me feel purposeful. When Emmett Till was murdered, that's what attracted our attention. Hi, I'm Vivian Green. Hey, everybody. This is your man, Fred Hammond,

and you're watching Roland Martin, my man, unfiltered. All right, folks. After a five-month investigation into sexual harassment claims against New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, the state's attorney general, Letitia James, released a report corroborating his accuser's stories. women, many of whom were young women, by engaging in unwanted groping, kisses, hugging, and by making inappropriate comments. Further, the governor and his senior team took actions to retaliate against at least one former employee for coming forward with her story, her truth. Governor Cuomo's administration fostered a toxic workplace that enabled harassment and

created a hostile work environment where staffers did not feel comfortable coming forward with complaints about sexual harassment due to a climate of fear and given the power dynamics. Cuomo, who requested the investigation, says despite the report, he has done nothing wrong. Know directly from me that I never touched anyone inappropriately or made inappropriate sexual advances. I am 63 years old. I have lived my entire adult life in public view. That is just not who I am,

and that's not who I have ever been. Investigators spent those five months speaking to nearly 200 people, including staff members and some of those who made complaints against Cuomo. Thousands of documents, text and pictures had to be reviewed as part of the inquiry. James says there's evidence Cuomo

and his senior staff worked to retaliate against the woman accused him of harassment. There were attempts to undermine and to politicize this investigation. And there were attacks on me as well as members of the team, which I find offensive. And our focus, again, should be on the bravery and the courage of these 11 women and of the others who came forward.

These allegations were substantiated. They were corroborated. And the team before you, Ms. Clark and Mr. Kim, are professionals who are widely respected not only in New York but all across this nation. And I support their work, will defend their work, and I believe these women. We were tasked with the responsibility of engaging in an investigation and we have concluded our investigation and our work is done and so as it relates to next steps that's entirely up to the governor and or the assembly and the general public but the work of the office of the Attorney General and these special deputies has concluded. We were tasked with the responsibility by the governor of the Office of the Attorney General and these special deputies has concluded.

We were tasked with the responsibility by the governor of the state of New York to issue a report. And we have issued this report. And all throughout the process, we put our heads down. We've done our work. And at this point, we're going to allow the chips to fall where they may. President Joe Biden was asked about this story at today's White House news conference. This is the question, his response. I have a question for you on coronavirus, but first I'd like to start with the news of the day,

given back in March, you said that if the investigation confirmed the allegations against Governor Cuomo, then he should resign. So will you now call on him to resign, given the investigator said the 11 women were credible? SEN. I stand by that statement. AMY GOODMAN. Are you now calling on him to resign? SEN. Yes.

AMY GOODMAN. And if he doesn't resign, do you believe he should be impeached and removed from office? SEN. Let's take one thing at a time here. I think he should resign. I understand that the state legislature may decide to impeach. I don't know that for a fact.

I've not read all that data. AMY GOODMAN- And he's using a photo of you embracing him in his self-defense to say that these are commonplace kind of embraces that he made and the allegations against him. Do you condone that? SEN. LARRY KUDLOWSKI- Look, I'm not going to flyspeck this. that he made and the allegations against him. Do you condone that? Look, I'm not going to fly-spec this.

I am sure there are some embraces that were totally innocent. But apparently the Attorney General decided there were things that weren't. And I'll turn to Iris. If I could ask you a question about the eviction. All right, let's bring in my panel here, Teresa Lundy, of course, Mustafa, as well as Misha Cross. So, Teresa, you read communications.

You saw the governor's response. What does he do next? Admit to the American people that he has done wrong and apologize continuously to these women and remove himself from office. That's the only thing that he can do. It's not like he's hurt. He's made a book. He's, you know, and millions of dollars have been... Look, he has a legacy. I think this is the right time to get out, you know, knowing that these allegations are against him. But there is no more room for him to really stand on the sidelines to say, it is not me, it is, you know, it's not my intentions anymore. But it would be him showing massive leadership to him in his standing, in his legacy, in his policies to show what he has done, not only in the pandemic,

but prior as governor. But again, his allegations can't be ignored. So the only thing he can do right now is bow down and bow out of that leadership position to allow somebody else who doesn't have that type of scrutiny to lead the office with integrity. One of the things that also jumps out here, Amisha, is Andrew Cuomo's brother, Chris Cuomo, a host on CNN. According to this report, Chris Cuomo actually helped Andrew Cuomo. First of all, he participated in strategy calls with his brother and helped craft

his response to the sexual harassment allegations. Should he be removed off the air of CNN as a result of this report? I think that that's going to fall under the previa of what CNN decides

is a workplace violation and what isn't. I think that when it comes to family matters, there are a lot of people who will try to protect their siblings, their parents, and whomever they're related to by blood, even if it means doing some things that are probably not up to par with values of any sort. And I think that that's what we saw with Chris and Andrew Cuomo. The big issue here for me isn't whether or not his brother is going to get caught up by CNN as much as it is—well, actually, I don't think Andrew Cuomo. The big issue here for me isn't whether or not his brother is going to get caught up by CNN as much as it is, well, actually, I don't think

that Cuomo should have been allowed to even interview his brother on CNN during the duration of this process, but we saw that that happened regardless. The issue for me here is that everything that Cuomo is accused of doing, people knew he did for years because the 11 women who came forward and who are presented in that 165-page document from Letitia James' office,

these are women who had most of their groping, most of the inappropriate comments. All of those things were done in the public eye, in a public face. So other people were easily able to corroborate said stories, because he didn't do a lot of this stuff in private. There was a level of emboldenment that comes from Cuomo specifically. And his apology was horrible at best, but it was a semi-apology. He wasn't really sorry about anything. But he doesn't want to admit to any wrongdoing. And I think that that's problematic because there are so many people and such a trail of basic indecency that he did for years in that office. We know that there's a statute of limitations on these cases. In particular, I think it's three years.

Right now, we're looking at a situation where there can still be some civil suits that these women could bring against the governor. But I agree with what was previously said. The smartest thing for him right now would be to resign. His legacy is already tarnished. That's over and done with. He will never be able to run for anything else, and nobody is going to remember him for anything beyond these very egregious sexual harassment claims. But beyond that, I think that there are a lot of people who also should fall on their sword, because Andrew Cuomo, like many others who are in higher office, do this to women all of the time. And other people around them see it, whether it is their executive staff, whether it was people who are fundraising with them, be it whether it's other Democrats who are high

level officials. A lot of the things that he did and he said, they took it as an old boys club and they were fine with it. And he continued to do it over and over with years under his belt of being a sexual aggressor. And I think that we should all come to grips with understanding this climate of workplace intolerable behavior that was funneled through that office, but also one that he had built and it became part of his facade. That was part of the Cuomo essence, to be aggressive towards women. And I think that we

can't talk about this story without talking about the fact that Cuomo is that guy. And Cuomo was known as that guy, and everyone knew it for decades. And it is just now that he is finally about to face the music. So, it was quite interesting... It was quite interesting, Mustafa, to see Andrew Cuomo's response include photos of President Joe Biden, President Barack Obama, hugging and kissing women. This is right here. This is literally

what he included in his response. These are some of the images right here. Dude, you're the one who's facing the allegations. You're not facing allegations that you hugged somebody. You're facing allegations that you groped and sexually harassed women and they retaliated against them for complaining. Right. Yeah, he was just trying to be slick with it,

you know, trying to say, well, see, they did it and it wasn't misinterpreted. So this is just a misinterpretation of my actions. You know, you got 11 people and it may be more who are saying that you did these types of things. When you have law enforcement who are a part of your detail, who says that you did these types of things, when you have staffers, when you have all these other folks, then those commonalities usually lead back to something. Now, we know everybody is entitled to their day in court. But the reality of the situation is, it's not only should he resign, but he should also get help, because sometimes we don't talk

about that enough, that he's still going to be walking around on this planet for a while. So he needs to go actually get help to not just understand what he did and why he did what he did, but to stop and make sure that it never happens in the future. And sometimes we don't make sure that we call that out enough when we're dealing with men. So yes, you should lose your job or lose these other types of things, but you also got to make sure that you're doing something to make sure that you are healing so you don't continue this type of behavior and hurt anybody else. Because these ladies, you know, they've got to carry this for the rest of their lives. Sexual harassment is a serious thing. And sometimes we'll

say, well, somebody wasn't raped. It's not that serious. Yes, it is serious because you are hurting somebody both on the spiritual level and on the physical level and the mental level. So he has a responsibility to actually make sure that he never does anything like this again. Well, of course, he had made clear he was going to be running for a third term.

The question is, will that continue? His poll numbers have been dropping, and so we'll certainly see what happens next. Well, let's talk about Florida where five Miami Beach police officers face first degree battery charges for allegedly using excessive

force during the arrest of two black men, Delonta Crudup and Collette Vaughn. It took place at a South Beach hotel. Check this out. Now this is surveillance video. It shows an officer chase Crudup into the lobby of the Royal Palm Hotel. The officer ordered Crudup onto the ground at gunpoint and then Crudup complies. Moments later, more than a dozen more officers flood into the lobby surrounding Crudup.

The cops then slam Crudup's head on the ground and begin to kick him violently. Y'all, that's a lot of cops for one person. All of this happened because officers claimed Crudup struck a bicycle patrol officer while driving a scooter recklessly. Now, during Monday's news conference, Miami-Dade State Attorney Catherine Fernandez Rondo walked through what happened when officers caught Vaughn using a cell phone to record Crudup's arrest. Watch what happens next. I'm sorry, but it's all we have. But it is. So if you could play that, George, please. Now, what you see, there's a series of punches in the back rib cage area or kidney area.

It's on the back. You see that there? You see that there? They're different videos of the same thing so that's why it seems embedded. You see it right there? Can you roll that back, Joyce, please? See the back there? That's officer.

It's a different angle. Roll that back, Joyce, please. See the back there? That's officer. It's a different angle. Use your body warm cameras at this point. Then about five seconds later, I don't know if you could catch that there. See that right there? So Sergeant Perez had who again who kicked him had then will see him

come back around in just a second. Credit was facing several charges, including aggravated battery of a law enforcement officer. Vaughn was charged with resisting an arrest with violence and impeding a police investigation. After reviewing the video footage, police chief Richard Clements requested all charges against both men be dropped. State attorney Rundle agreed and dropped the charges. Sergeant Jose Perez, officers Kevin Perez, not related,

Robert Sybester, David Rivas, and Stephen Serrano turned themselves in on Monday. This push-off right here shows you, again, when you have thug cops, how they will attack folks, beat folks, and they thought, we're going to get away with this. But it was that surveillance video and body camera footage that actually did them in. And every single, now granted, it's misdemeanor charges. Every single one of these cops should be fired, including, and in fact, the state's attorney general, excuse me, the state's attorney, complained that only one officer acted to pull one of the folks, one of the cops away.

But the rest of them just stood around and watched them do what they do. All of them should lose their jobs. I agree. You know, being a police officer is a privilege. And it means that you have to carry yourself in that way. We see far too many instances where folks are handcuffed. They got their hands behind their back on the ground, and then people want to, you know, continue to beat on folks and to put their lives actually in danger.

So, this has to change. But, also, you see police officers actually turn their back, so they don't have to sometimes see what's going on. It's almost like some of these congressmen on Capitol Hill who say, well, I haven't seen the video yet, so I don't really know's going on. It's almost like some of these congressmen on Capitol Hill who say, well, I haven't seen the video yet, so I don't really know what went on. You know what went on. Twenty-one police officers moved into that space. The gentleman was already, you know, had his hands behind his back, and they still continue to pile on. Then they started whipping on him. And then they moved to the other brother who was recording it because they're like, wait a minute, we can't have this individual actually capturing what was going on. Of course, they didn't know that there were the other cameras that were also capturing these injustices that continue to happen. And that's

why if you don't want to be a police officer, then don't be a police officer, you know, but you can't have this job and then continue to do things that you arrest other people for. And that's why you deserve to lose your job. And the folks who are standing around watching and not stopping these individuals from allowing this to further escalate, they also need to be, you know, they've got to deal with the consequences of that as well. I mean, the state's attorney said when the police chief saw the video, all he did was just put his head down on his desk. He was shocked and stunned by what he saw. It is shocking, but not necessarily surprising.

It was hard to watch because as you were playing that, the guy's head was literally bouncing up and down off of the floor. You have individuals who won. I don't know why all of those cops were called to the scene in the first place. That was a lot of people. And to the point that Mustafa made a moment ago, you have so many officers that were basically just standing around. At no point is anyone trying to stop the aggression or trying to de-escalate. Isn't that the whole point? That's what we hear in all of these cases, de-escalation. That's what you're supposed to do when you get on the scene. They came to the scene and escalated. There was not any amount of violence that was occurring before they got there.

And I think that it's interesting, because we always see in every case that these officers up charges when they're trying to eradicate their own culpability and their behavior. They up the charges for those who they were trying to take in. What can we expect? We've seen the body cam footage. We saw the footage that was taken from the lobby area in and of itself. This was a strike force used against two people. And I think that it was extremely egregious, but it's also, when does this stop? You quoted the chief being very disappointed in what he saw or thinking of it as unbelievable. No, sir. These are people

you trained. These are people who come to work for you every single day. These are people who I'm sure this wasn't their first incident of random violence. Police officers who respond like this are police officers who, just like anyone who assaults people in real life outside of the police uniform, these are people who have a consistent time of doing so. So they need to—it's not training. It's not a training issue. We's not training. It's not a training issue. We already know that. It's not a training issue because this doesn't happen to white people. It is one of police abuse against those who are Black and brown. And we consistently see Black men in particular getting their heads beat in by these officers. And the question is,

when can we expect police reforms to actually happen? When? Yesterday would be too far. We need these things to happen now because, thank God, those men came out of this situation alive. But far too many of our brothers do not. Well, I'll tell you what, Teresa. We have seen Miami Beach have lots of problems in the past with thug cops. We have, and it won't stop. We will continue to see, unfortunately, this injustice against civilians, against taxpayers, and against Black men and women until the justice system decides to do their part. And that is not only prosecuting

many of the officers that we see in the videos continuously, but also reaching into their life savings, which is their pensions. So I've been a big proponent of pension snatching for those officers who choose not to understand the law when it comes to police civility and doing their jobs, Because it's not like, again, when police are maybe reprimanded at one department, they just transfer to another, and that violence continues and someone else is hurt. And ultimately, it could lead in another lost life. So why, you know, continuously, you know, just move the individual from, you know, department to department when we really need solutions from the Justice Department to do something holistically.

All right, folks, an Indiana community activist is facing multiple charges in an incident where he was the victim. In July 2020, Vaughn Booker was a victim of a racist attack at Lake Monroe. This video ended up going viral, leading to charges against two white men involved. The Monroe County prosecutor declined the charges against Booker, but requested a special prosecutor to oversee the case. The special prosecutor hit Booker with misdemeanor trespassing and felony battery charges. Booker says he's charged because he declined to participate in mediation

that would have resulted in him signing a confidentiality agreement and dismissing the charges against his white attackers, Sean Purdy and Jerry Cox. I'm sorry, am I missing something, Mustafa? Really? We're missing justice. That's what we're missing. They even allow these charges to come up a year later. You know, that's why we still have these issues around creating safe spaces, especially in the outdoors, because you have, you know, oftentimes there's no cameras around when you're in the outdoors, and you have these types of situations going on that, you know,

make it where black and brown folks don't want to go into certain locations. So the other dynamic that you got going on here is that he also had white friends who were with him and the white friends didn't catch any charges, although none of them should have gotten charges who was with Vox. So this is just another one of these dynamics where they try and balance stuff out. And if you don't do what they want you to do, if you don't want to sign off saying, you know, going through mediation and don't want to press charges and that kind of thing, then they come after you. And we've got to change that dynamic. And, Roland, just let me add this. We also got to change the

dynamics of the folks who are in these park services and those dynamics, because you find very few folks of color who are in that space. And often, you know, they don't enforce properly. And then they often have the same sets of dynamics that go on with often, you know, they don't enforce properly. And then they often have the same sets of dynamics that go on with officers, just like we just saw. Because you'll find that many of the folks who are in that space, they often are the ones that couldn't make it into the police force. So we got a whole bunch of work that we got to do. Teresa. JOHN YANG, Former U.S. Attorney General, I agree. I think there has been one, I'm grateful again that the black man had some video footage in order to counter

his narrative against everyone else. But, again, the injustice ensues, and I'm hoping justice actually is done. Amisha? Well, Roland, white people have acted like they've owned the woods and forest preserves and things like that for generations now. So I'm not surprised that there would be a scuffle when there's a black man that is taking his nature walk and enjoying his time with what the Lord has made as well. What I am very, very disturbed by is the fact that criminal charges were brought up against a man because he refused to basically sign away his rights outside of mediation. At the end of the day, he knew that what happened that day was wrong.

He knew that what happened that day shouldn't happen to anybody else. And he is well within his rights to decide to press any type of charges he wants to against those individuals who acted as though they owned a property that was open to the public. I think that we see in so many cases where these random altercations happen because white people stake their claim on public lands or anywhere there happens to be a Black body present, and they decide to police it. And in this case, I'm so thankful that there was video footage, because at the end of the day, this could have gone a lot worse, and he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on, because when it is a Black man facing several white people at once, including those who were in his own party, who probably could have done more but did not, at the end of the day,

things end up going in an entirely different direction. So I'm hopeful that he finally gets his justice, but I am quite frankly very disgusted that there were charges ever actually presented towards the person who was actually aggrieved here, not towards those who committed the acts of very atrocious violence here. All right, folks. Can I go to

a break before we do so? Our friends with Seek.com, they are back. Yo, this is Ziggy Marley. Catch with seek.com they are back live performance on seek the bond you're watching us please let the music play. It's a black-owned company founded by Mary Spio. They, of course, have their virtual reality content that you can actually see via their app, Seek.com. But they also have the products that they actually sell.

So one of the products you can see right here, folks, is their virtual headset that you see right here, which allows you to actually see the content. Just simply place your phone right in here, and then you can actually see a particular video. But remember, they also have the great headsets. And so this is one, and actually they've added a new color. So you saw these before. We showed you these before. They're black and white. Excuse me, they're black and gold headsets, 360 degree surround sound. And so they sent me their headsets and I said, okay, cool. Then I opened this one. Y'all know I was like, okay, I like this one here. All gold. Now, you know, as an alpha, I love this here. And so this one here all gold now you know as an alpha i love this here and so this is their all gold uh headset uh and so uh is absolutely amazing sound the the bass is incredible uh just go to sip go to seek.com seek.com but use this promo code it-P-21. Now, we should put it in the lower third, please. The promo code is R-M-V-I-P-21. Go to Seek.com.

And so, when you purchase either the headset or the VR headset, we also get a cut of the proceeds, and we certainly appreciate Seek being returning as one of our partners here at Roland Martin Unfiltered. I'll be back to discuss our Marketplace segment sponsored by Nextdoor. We'll talk about Will Smith and Jay-Z investing $165 million into a company. But why are some black people upset? We'll talk with John Hope Brown about that. Then we'll talk with a sister who uses Nextdoor to really amp up her business with black entrepreneurs.

That is next on Roland Martin Unfiltered. When you study the music, you get black history by default. And so no, no other craft could carry as many words as rap music. I try to intertwine that and make that create whatever I'm supposed to send out to the universe. A rapper, you know, for the longest period of time has gone through phases. I love the word.

I hate what it's become, you know, and to this generation, the way they visualize it. Its narrative kind of like has gotten away and spun away from, I guess, the ascension of black people. GEORGE FLOYD, Former President of the United States of America, George Floyd's death hopefully put another nail in the coffin of racism. You talk about awakening America, it led to a historic summer of protest. protest I hope our younger generation don't ever forget that non-violence is soul force right Michelle I'm Chaley Rose and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered.

All right, folks. Of course, welcome to our Marketplace segment sponsored by Nextdoor. This is where we, of course, focus on black-owned businesses every single week. And so normally we have the Sting, and we'll play that before our next segment. And so there's some news that came out.

Will Smith and Jay-Z, it was announced they were investing $165 decision and sort of shook my head and said, well, why? What's the deal here? I was talking to my man, John Hope Bryant, founder of Operation Hope, and he said, you know what, let's talk about this so we can really explain to folks what business is really about and how folks actually work. He joins us right now. So, John, give folks the details of this investment and what it means and what really, I won't say it ticked you off, but let's just say caused you to say, we need to actually have a real conversation

in Black America about business. Yeah. So, first of all, I love you, Roland. Honored to be a supporter of the channel. And I mean that in a material way and not just aspirationally. I encourage everybody to do the same. It was lovely to see a Black-owned company as one of your sponsors. More companies need to do that. Mainstream companies, certainly minority-owned companies. We need to buy our own block and invest in our own companies. We need to buy our own block and invest in our own product. You know, we, in my

book, Up From Nothing, you and I have talked a lot about this, the different mentalities. You have a winning mentality, a thriving mentality, a surviving mentality, and a spectator mentality. and this is like spectators on another thing, because you look at this investment, and it's really two different conversations. You read most of the press, and it's Will Smith and Jay-Z have invested as part of a group in a rental-owned company. Okay, I actually think, my God,

two brothers firmly from the hood have a venture capital firm in one hand and a private equity firm on the other. That's fantastic. I mean, isn't that a beautiful thing? Don't we want that? They're making their money legal and investing it. Likewise, that memo got missed. Folks on Twitter, at least where I saw, including a very notable person who I think is a historian par excellence,

but maybe we need to talk about financial literacy a little bit, went in on Will and Jay-Z, and I can't figure out why. First of all, I guess people were upset this was a white-owned company. Well, the company never said they were anything other. They never said they were here to save black America. It's a rent-to-own company, right? And it appears trying to do affordable housing for low-income people. There was an immediate assumption that this was a scam, that poor people were going to be, and poor black people were going to be abused. So you have this discussion in black America

that's very, actually, cynical. And then if you look at all the rest of the press, I encourage everybody that's watching this, don't trust me. Do your own search. The rest of the press is just pretty straight ahead. A couple of things, Roland. First of all, it wasn't just 100, this is not Will and Jay putting in $165 million assets being reported by our folks. They were part of an investment group. Right. Number two, there's no bad reputation.

And by the way, I think this company probably took a page out of one of my books for a company that I own that does something similar to what he's talking about. And I'm saying as somebody who actually should be a little agreed by it, bravo. I'm happy that he got the investment and he's doing his thing. If it helps our people. Now, if they are found to be scamsters,

if this company is found to be illegitimate, we should be all over them like a cheap suit. But at the moment, it's just the perception that this company was doing rent to own and that somehow Jay-Z and Will Smith were manipulating our people. Actually, I can't figure it out. So here's a tweet that you're talking about. So this is the tweet right here that Nicole Hannah-Jones sent out on August 1st. The story from the root,

Jay-Z and Will Smith invest in a company to help low-income folks go from renters to homeowners. She tweets, Credit counseling is not what will take low-income renters to homeowners. Wealth will. All this program does is charge struggling people additional fees for being poor, which is what every other predatory lender does. Now, that's down. It got that particular tweet, 3,000 retweets and 16,100 likes. Now, this is what the story actually says. Landis Technologies raised $165 million to purchase 1,000 homes. It says the company purchases, according to Bloomberg, the company purchases a house and rents it to the client until they can qualify for a mortgage. The client can buy it back at a predetermined price up to two years after the initial acquisition. As part of its service, Landis provides coaching for clients

on how to manage their finances to improve their credit and save the amount they need for a down payment. Landis sets rents equivalent to its carrying cost on the home. It also charges a fee on top of the value of the property at the time of its initial purchase. If a client isn't ready to buy the home after two years, Landis may offer them more time or sell the property. Now, John, first of all, according to the company, they hope to convert 80% of the people from renters into homeowners. So let's unpack this.

Nicole says in her tweet, credit counseling is not what it will take low-income renters to homeowners wealth will. You absolutely disagree with that because that's exactly what Operation Hope does. It helps people. First of all,

go ahead and explain it. Yeah, I mean, that is, again, she's brilliant. We all know her from the 1619 Project. She's a historian. I don't want to disagree with her because I actually highly respect her. She's on my reading list for next week. But on this point, she's just wrong. If it makes her feel any better, I actually told Mr. Bill Gates he was wrong two weeks ago

at a meeting I saw him at. So I'm not discriminating. On this point, she's just respectfully incorrect. It is actually my story, Roland, as you well know, that I got a financial literacy course at Compton, California. A banker came in my classroom, and I raised my hand at the second session and said, excuse me, sir, what do you do for a living? And how did you get rich legally? He said, I'm a banker and I finance entrepreneurs.

I said, sir, I don't know what an entrepreneur is, but if you finance them and it's legal, I'm going to be one. And that's who I am today. After he gave me this incredible financial literacy course in home economics class. I now own 700 homes just under that from Atlanta and to North Florida. I have a portfolio of businesses, found and operate, you know, the rest of the story, employing a few hundred people. Because, not because I have the money, but because I had knowledge in my head about money. In fact, let me, let Roland, let's flip

this. If all we do, if people say, oh, we don't need all this counseling thing. We just need money. Okay, I take all the money in the world, you and me, redistribute it to everybody in the world equally. Take the money from the top 3%, redistribute it to everybody equally. What will happen in three years? The top 3% will own it all over again. If nothing else changes. I'll go one step further. You win the lottery.

You stop and see a homeless guy on the side of the road.'ll go one step further. You win the lottery. You stop and see a homeless guy on the side of the road. You want to help them because you won the lottery. All you do is give them a million bucks because you've got goodness in your heart. That's all you do. He'll be broke in six months. Because nothing changes here. Nothing's going to change here. Wealth is a mindset. There's a difference between making money, getting paid, getting that paper, getting that dollar. Want to make that money, which we are unfortunately, as black people, WEALTH IS A MINDSET. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAKING MONEY, GETTING PAID, GETTING THAT PAPER, GETTING THAT DOLLAR, WANT TO MAKE THAT MONEY WHICH WE ARE UNFORTUNATELY AS

BLACK PEOPLE OVERLY OBSESSED WITH, AND BUILDING WEALTH WHICH IS WHAT YOU DO IN YOUR SLEEP. FINANCIAL LITERACY HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. AND ALSO THE LAST DEBATE WE HAD ON YOUR GREAT PROGRAM, THIS DEBATE ABOUT HOMEOWNERSHIP WHERE

FOLKS SAY, OH, BLACK PEOPLE, WE DON'T OWN THE HOME, THE BANK DOES. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Right? No, the bank owns the debt. They only own the home if you default. You get the appreciation, the depreciation, which is good for your taxes. You get the write-off on every mortgage payment. We can go on and on and on. This is just a lack of understanding that there's good debt and bad debt, as we talked about before. So financial literacy is the one thing, Roland, we were denied. As you well know, you're a historian yourself. Freedman's Bank, March 3rd, 1865,

after the Civil War, we were given 40 acres, which is a pilot program, Field Action 15. Then we worked that so hard, we were given a mule, February 1865. The next month, Lincoln creates a bank called the Freedman's Bank to domicile our savings, teach us about money. So Abraham Lincoln, on the occasion of our being freed from enslavement, thought the most important thing he could do was to teach us about the free enterprise system and capitalism and ownership. And Lincoln was killed the next month. Roland, Frederick Douglass thought this was so important. In order to save the bank, he put $10,000 of his own money in the bank in 1865 to try to save it and ride or run the bank.

Unfortunately, it was gamed, and it closed in 1874. It's not like we got the memo on money and free enterprise and screwed it up. We never got the memo. So it's what we don't know that we don't know that's killing us, but we think we know. It's not like somebody gave us a memo on free enterprise and we messed it up. We keep talking about Tulsa, Oklahoma as if it is really Wall Street. No, it didn't produce capital. It didn't issue debt. They didn't provide venture capital like Will

Smith and Jay-Z are doing right now. There was no banking infrastructure. There was no systemic uplift of tens of thousands of jobs. It was a wonderful example of a normal community where you have homeowners and small business owners and entrepreneurs. It was just normal. We want to call it Black Wall Street. This is how messed up our situation is. That should have been the case in every community in America. So, John, when you, again, so when she says credit counseling is not what it would take

low-income renters to homeowners, well, the reality is this, John, and y'all have done it. If you right now have, and let's just, again, walk people through. If you right now have, and let's just, again, walk people through. If you right now have a credit score of 500, and you're gonna have a much higher interest rate if you try to get you a mortgage.

But if you work with through credit counseling, what Operation Hope does, and move that to 700, that changes the interest rate on the mortgage. So actually, the credit counseling does help you because if you can, go ahead. Yeah, there's nothing that changes your life more than God or love than moving your credit score 120 points, all right?

I mean, nothing. My mother's credit score is 854. My mother's not black, she's green. My mother worked an hourly job. So not only was that tweet by her incorrect about my life, which I just mentioned, it was also incorrect about my mother's life, who worked an hourly job and bought and sold seven homes.

Seven. Because her credit score is to a point where she cannot be. If you have a credit score of 800, even 750, no one's going to tell you no for anything. By the way, all of the problems in our neighborhoods, as you know, Roland, are in 500 credit score neighborhoods, by the way, where you see a check casher next to a payday loan lender, next to a rental owned store, next to a title lender, next to a liquor store and a pawn shop. Andrew Young said that to live in a payday loan lender, next to a rental-owned store, next to a title lender, next to a liquor store and a pawn shop. Andrew Young said that to live in a system of free enterprise and not to understand the rules of free enterprise must be the definition of slavery.

So, yes, credit score, half of black folks have a credit score below 620. Fact. Half of us. So while we think the bank may be discriminating against us on race, and maybe they are, the likelihood they don't even need to go that far. Your credit score does not allow you to buy a home at a prime rate at 600. You can get a Homeboy Shopping Network mortgage, as you're saying, a 21%, a 15% mortgage, which will, on a $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 house, will make your wallets explode.

But if you can get your credit score rolling up to 680 through Operation Hope Coaching, which raises credit scores 54 points in six months, 120 points in 24 months, you get your credit score up to 680, your mortgage goes down, I don't know, probably 7% in the current environment. You get your credit score up to 710,

the mortgage is 3%. That's like them giving you money. So again, for the person listening, so if you increase your credit score to go from 7% to 3% means, again, how much you're paying on that mortgage, you're paying less. I want to bring this.

And I do want to get your take on this here because this is what the story says, that the company will purchase a house, rent it to a client. So basically, you're moving into a home that you will have work with you two years to buy. Now, it says Landis is going to charge a fee on top of the value of the property at the time of its initial purchase. So, we don't know what that fee is. But what this is, we don't. But what this is saying is, what they're basically

saying is, we're going to acquire the home. We're going to give you two years and work with you to get your finances in order, credit score improved, for you to be able to buy the home. I don't know of many other programs that will allow you to a sense, if you're low income, to move into a home. We're going to help you try to buy it, and then you have a shot to buy it after two years,

and then the two years passes, they might give you more time. I'm trying to understand again how this is attacking the poor. Well, no, it's not. It's attacking clicks on the Internet. It's what it is. I mean, it just created this firestorm of conversation. It reminds me of the two hobos. This is a Jesse Jackson story, Roland.

The two hobos got kicked off the train. They're upset about it for not paying me. One hobo said, man, I'm so upset. I think I'm going to buy this here train. The other hobo said, yeah, I'm upset too. I'm going to sell it to you. Let that sink in for a minute. Both of them so broke they can't pay attention.

They're talking past each other about a situation that nobody is paying any attention on. The train is gone. The train in our neighborhood of home ownership is leaving, and we're having ridiculous debates. Gentrification, which is a conversation that we should have at some point, is really just a movement of middle-class values. Why aren't we buying the house with the tree in it, in our neighborhood, buy it, rehab it, rent it, and own it? Buy it, rehab it, rent it, or buy it, rehab it, and live in it, and watch that equity go up for ourselves? That's a whole other conversation, but real estate values are doing nothing but going up, and that's been the case since the beginning of time. So put that issue aside for a moment. To your point, the answer is yes. It's a very unique program. And I'm talking about somebody, theoretically, Roland, I'm their

competitor. I'm sorry. Theoretically, they're my competitor. Theoretically, I could say that capital should have gone to me. I'm the largest in the country as a minority, went to this company through two notable investors. I'm not saying that, Roland. I'm saying this. Bravo. We need as many folks out here trying to help folks come up as possible, as long as it's honorable, ethical, it's done in complete plain sight. This seems to be very transparent. I actually don't know of many programs that does this. I would have done it differently. I would have been more, I think, more elegant about how we integrate the services and been more transparent. Is the credit counseling free?

Mine is and all that kind of stuff. But I do like they do say, Roland, it's all up front. Here's what the price of the house is going to be. Here's what the fee is that we're going to charge you up front. Here's what the predetermined purchase price is going to be two years after. And if you need more time, we'll give you more time. Now, if you don't like the deal, you walk away. You find a better deal, you go do the deal.

But from what this is saying, then they say that the rent will be based on their carrying costs. There's an assumption here that's going to be also at market. In other words, the rents will be at market rate. But if it's not at market rate and you're getting a bad deal, leave! Sounds pretty basic to me. John O'Brien, founder of Operation O.

Always a pleasure. Thanks a bunch. Radical movement of common sense. Alright. I appreciate it. Thank you so very much. All right, folks. Time's talk about our next guest, where, of course, they have this initiative called the Audacity Women's Initiative. It helps black entrepreneurs reduce overhead and increase their profits.

Co-founded by Ashley Osborne Watts. Ashley, first of all, what is this? What are y'all doing? How y'all helping folks run their businesses? First off, let me just say thank you, Mr. Martin, for having me and giving me access to your platform to discuss what we have to offer. Thank you. Appreciate it. We are the Audacity Women's Initiative, a local group here in the Jackson, Mississippi metro area. We're here to connect all Black women business owners together to be able to uplift, to be able to encourage, motivate, and also give them a space for them to be able to come to and conduct their businesses.

OK, so when you talk about again, this is one of those things that people don't quite understand about businesses. When you talk about, hey, overhead profits, a lot of people who have great ideas, not understanding everything is an expense. When you have a business you better know it yes sir um so we offer a space where you can come in you need to take product pictures you need to have a business meeting you need to have an event that's what we are here to do we are here to help you with that you don't have to worry about your electricity your gas your internet connection we have all that here at a low cost. And that is the purpose of us. How have you, first of all, how long have y'all been,

how long have y'all had this initiative? Since March of 2021. The pandemic showed us that, hey, a lot of our Black women had to get back into the house because the kids came home. So what were we to do? Okay, we had to close our doors. That left open a market for us to open up a business where they can come in and actually use the space. They don't need it all the time, but we have that space for them when they do need it. And so you're on the Nextdoor platform and how are you utilizing that to connect with other entrepreneurs and to provide your services for them across the country? You know, the Nextdoor app was a godsend. It really was. It helped me connect with the different neighbors around our neighborhood and in the local area. So we had a community service event actually not too long ago, July 17th, Martha's Vision.

It was a great event. We had health, wellness, but we also had a lot of our local business owners here conducting business out of the spaces that we provided. And we were able to connect with the different people around our area to let them know what we had going on and also to connect with other different businesses so they can come and participate as well. So Nextdoor is something like a community for us, the same way we're a community for all Black

women business owners. Wow. We've got questions from my guests and of course, Teresa Lundy, you've got your own business. I'm quite sure you've got a question for our guests. Yes. And well, one, thank you so much for the idea. I think one of my questions will probably be, how are you guys getting more so engaged with some of the CDCs or some of the workforce development programs like banks who pretty much do this for small businesses? Have you guys made a relationship? And if not, is that something you're looking forward to do? I'm glad you brought that up. At our event on July 17th, we actually had banks come out, Trustmark National Bank, Community Bank, all of our local bank, River Hills Bank. We do believe in connecting with those people that can help bring the financial backup that we need for our local businesses.

Mustafa. Yeah, well, once again, thank you for what you're doing. You know, I've been trying to get black and brown folks to really pay attention to the contracting and subcontracting opportunities that this new administration, the dollars that are going to roll out here sometime in the near future. Are you all helping to prepare folks to be able to engage in that market as well? You're speaking my language. Actually, just last week, we had somebody come in, one of our actual, Ms. Jana Green. She came in and

actually did a class with a lot of our young women who are starting their businesses to show them how to get bids at the local level, the state level, the federal level, how to sign up to be a disadvantaged business, a minority-owned business. So yes, we are. We're actually connecting those new, fresh blood, like I like to call them, with our old heads, like I like to call them. Amisha Cross. Hi. I have a couple of questions that I'm actually going to combine. My grandmother and a lot of my family lives in Jackson, in Burton Addition area.

With that in mind, I know a lot about the local area and a lot of the small businesses there. Is there a process that you have of actually partnering with or working with some of the local high schools in terms of funnels for entrepreneurship, as well as acknowledging what has long been held in the state of Mississippi as the brain drain, where you have so many people who go to college there, but end up leaving as soon as they graduate because they don't see economic opportunities in the state? KAYLA TAYLOR- Yes, actually, we have not done that yet, but that is a great idea. I would love to partner with it because I'm from Jackson.

I actually went to Tougaloo and Jackson State. Shout out to the HBCUs. So, yes, that's actually a great way to connect with the people here. So I would love to actually deal in that. Yes, we haven't we haven't dealt in that yet, but I would love to. If you have any suggestions, please feel free. See? So all you got to do is, Amisha, hit her on the Nextdoor app, and you're good. Yes, sir.

I've got to ask you this here, Ashley. You talked about starting this in March 2021. And the thing here is, again, that a lot of people who were frustrated and stuck during this whole COVID period, and it caused you and others to say, no, no, we got to get creative in this moment and fill a void that it's clearly exposed. Yes, sir. Exactly. That was the main reason, like I said. I looked around and a lot of my Black women business owners lost faith. And that's the point of the group. We want to let them know that we are here to help you get through these hard times. It's tough out here. It really is, especially coming from being a Black woman

in the state of Mississippi. That's already difficult within itself. But being a Black businesswoman, oh, we're talking something totally different at that point. So we are here to encourage, to uplift, and to give them resources that they need to not only thrive, but like the previous guest said, to win.

All right then. Well, we certainly appreciate the work that you do. And again, I say this with this segment we've done with other previous owners, utilize free opportunities at your disposal. The ability to be able to connect with people just where you are via the Nextdoor app, I think is just crucial. And I can't tell you how many people I run into who I tell them all the time, what are you doing? Why are you not using social media to your advantage uh it's free

it allows for you to be able to market your business as opposed to just hoping somebody's going to pick up the phone or walk through the door i agree is i'm glad we're in the social media area because era because right now that is the way to connect that is at your fingertips at all times there's no more going door to door selling encyclopedias like my granddad did. There's no more of that. You can actually connect with your community. And why I like Nextdoor is you can connect with the community locally, and you know who's in your area.

And they're there just as like-minded as you are, and that's why I really appreciate that app. All right, then. Well, Ashley, I really appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Where can people get more information? Is there a website for your initiative? Facebook at The Audacity Women's Initiative. You can also email us at theaudacity21 at gmail.com.

Thank you again, Mr. Martin, for extending your platform. Thank you guys to the guests for the questions. I appreciate it. You got my mind going, so thank you. And is it under your name or is it under the initiative's name under Nextdoor? The Audacity Initiative and Nextdoor, yes, sir. Okay.

All right, then. Ashley Osborne Watts, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. All right, folks. Got to go to a break. We come back. Book author talks about leaving America when Donald Trump became president. She said, I had to get the hell out of here. I'll be back on Roller Barton.

I'll be back on the filter. One of the most stressful days of my life was when this one got out. I chased after her as best I could, kind of fell over and broke my wheelchair. I was able to get back home and make a post. Within about five or so minutes, I had three or four different people come into the rescue. One woman stopped traffic, just drove her right back to the house for me. It was a very emotional day. Over a period of 10 years, my neighborhood went from being almost 98% Black to being 98% White. So all of a sudden, oh God, I'm the suspicious looking Black man.

I posted on Nextdoor that I no longer felt comfortable walking in this neighborhood. The response I got was hundreds and hundreds of neighbors offering to walk with me. This experience moved me and changed the way I saw humanity. At Nextdoor, we come to work every day to help cultivate a kinder world. We want to make sure that everyone has

a neighborhood to rely on. When we started this company, we felt that technology had an important role to play in bringing communities and neighbors together. We knew that having the support of your neighbors was critical. When I found out I was becoming a father, I panicked. What am I going to feed this kid? I posted, hey, any other gardeners who might have extra soil, seeds,

equipment, and they came up from everywhere. As human beings, we want a sense of safety and anything that gives us that sense of connection. You drive through a neighborhood and you see houses and bricks, but really what you have is people, business owners and entrepreneurs. We know that the locals are what keep our restaurant going. When somebody says that they enjoy our restaurant, it brings us business. It's been really cool being able to cheer on your neighbors as they open up the next coffee shop.

When Hurricane Harvey first hit Houston, I realized that Nextdoor was much more than just a day-to-day utility. It was a lifeline to the community. The neighbors have been using that Nextdoor app to coordinate evacuations. When the pandemic started, people did have the urge to help.

But often, they didn't know who to help or how. Our Nextdoor group took off explosively. Just after a year, we had over 1,000 members. Nextdoor evokes a sense of pride in your neighborhood. And we know that people globally are craving for that. We posted our music video on the Nextdoor app. A lot of people in the area liked it. People are beautiful. Let's go to the beautiful. Keepin' rhythm for the vibes we got. Stay on the drums. I think the video meant a lot to our neighbors because it portrays the Cascade area in a positive lighting.

At the end of the day, this is a business model about people and neighborhoods and communities. Wouldn't it be beautiful to connect Wall Street to Main Street and to do well and do good at the same time? It's going to be the legacy of 2020 that Nextdoor put neighbors together for a cause and then forever. Thank you very much. It often starts online, but we know that it continues into the real world, and that is the superpower of Nextdoor. All right, folks, time for our book club. Okay, y'all missed that. Y'all missed the stinger.

Let me go right to it. All right, a lot of people, a lot of people said that they wanted to leave America if Donald Trump became president. Well, guess what? Audrey Edwards did. She wrote a book called American Runaway, Black and Free in Paris in the Trump Years. She and I sat down for a conversation became president. Well, guess what? Audrey Edwards Diaz, she wrote a book called American Runaway,

Black and Free in Paris in the Trump years. She and I sat down for a conversation about this book. So, Audrey, all right. So how big of a deal was this Black folks leaving America, reminiscent of folks doing so during Jim Crow? Well, I don't know. I can't speak for all the folks, Roland. I can only speak for me. And I made a pledge, kind of a threat, the minute Donald Trump declared his candidacy, that if anything as crazy as him winning was to happen, I would be gone. And that's what happened. He was elected. I couldn't believe it. But I also knew I had to leave. I didn't know what was coming, but I knew what was coming was bad, and I didn't want to be here. So you sort of had your Josephine Baker, James Baldwin moment.

I did. I did. And we all come to our moments differently. Circumstances are different. I knew as someone who does real estate in New York that Donald Trump had always been perceived as a joke just from a business standpoint. And I also knew this was a man who had never been elected to anything. He had never been homeroom moniker. He had never been head of the Glee Club. He had never been elected to any office whatsoever. So for him to suddenly be the president of the most powerful country in the world, I knew my world as I knew it was about to come undone. So I hightailed it for Paris, the city I've always loved.

I knew people there. Were your friends and others, I mean, were they shocked that you followed through on this? Yeah, a lot of people didn't believe me when I was making the threat. And a lot of people didn't understand. You know, I have people who are not American born. I have a good friend who was born in Honduras. I have a biracial friend who is half Vietnamese and half black. Her father was an American Black soldier. She was born, you know, during the Vietnam War. And the Vietnamese people had a historical hatred for the French because they had been there and occupied that country

long before American troops came. So her attitude was, don't you know how racist the French are? And my attitude was, I know how racist America is, and I know it's about to become more so, and I'm out of here. So yeah, a lot of my friends, most of my friends didn't believe me, couldn't believe it. But it didn't matter because I'm a Taurus. And once I say I'm going to do something, I do it. And there was, you know, and I really was at an age where I am a baby boomer. I came through the civil rights movement and I knew we were about to have some of the same struggles that we had 50 years ago.

And I was just not up for it. You know, as they say, I wasn't having it, not at this age. And sure enough... Obviously, a lot of other African-Americans couldn't afford to make the decision that you made. And the reason I cited Baldwin and Josephine Baker, because for a lot of African-Americans today, they don't realize the number of African-Americans, especially entertainers, who fled to Europe.

Quincy Jones, people who saw the movie Ray, he talked about that, spending some time overseas. of artists and writers. When I was reading Charles Barnett, first of all, Gerald Horne's book on Claude Barnett, the Associated Negro Press, the number of African-Americans who literally left the country and who went to Russia and who went to Europe and other nations because they simply could not tolerate Jim Crow. Yes, yes, yes.

And I think the artists and the entertainers have always been the renegades in our group. The artists, the writers are the thinkers. They are the people who are often the visionaries. They think outside of the box very often. That's what writers do, think outside the box. And in the case of expatriates, they made a decision to move outside of the box. So, yes, there was a history. There was a tradition of Black Americans in particular going to Paris. And that history went back to World War I when Black American soldiers were sent to Europe and fought alongside French soldiers.

And France sustained the biggest losses of all the European countries during World War I. And they really appreciated the courage and the valor of the Black American soldiers in particular, because they knew what their struggle was in America. And here you have these young men coming to defend the freedom of France. And that was not lost on the French. That was not lost. So there was a kind of affirmation for Black Americans by the French that didn't really exist in other parts of Europe. And there was a French appreciation for our style and our beauty, how we created music, how we walked, how we talked. And there was a reciprocal appreciation on the part of Black Americans.

The French are very stylish. They are very passionate about their art. They've created great beauty in their architecture and in their clothing. So there was a symbiotic relationship between Black Americans and the French. That was the history. And it continues. It really does. There's still a large Black American expat community in Paris. Yeah, that was a sister who did a book on that a number

of years ago. I wrote a story on her. She was from Houston, and she wrote a book about the various hotspots people would travel to, tourism hotspots as well. So how long did you spend in Paris? All four years? No, I'll tell you something, Roland. I really thought I was going to be in Paris initially for three months. I really thought that the first 100 days would be the beginning and the end of Donald Trump. I just knew in that litmus test of 100 days, America would realize a big mistake had been made, and he would be gotten rid of. And I turned out to be very wrong. So once I realized he was not going anywhere anytime soon, and certainly not in 100 days, I then started thinking about how can I be here in a more permanent way? Do I put my apartment on the market?

Do I open up a French bank account? Do I get a permanent apartment as opposed to kind of the Airbnb I was living in? But the owner of that apartment I knew, and I knew I could stay longer. So I had to really kind of regroup and look at what is the next four years going to look like. And what I encountered in the first winter being in Paris, the reality is that it was the coldest winter in Europe in 30 years. These old European cities do not have things that we take for granted like central heat. So my first winter was spent in a tiny apartment being heated by a space heater. And I realized by year two, I could not endure Paris winters.

Not only was it cold, it was rainy. And I'm from the Seattle area, and my attitude was, if I wanted rain, I would have stayed in Seattle. So I was back and forth for three years and then got sidetracked like many people by the pandemic. I came back through the winter and couldn't go back in the spring of 2019. So Paris was way too cold for you. It was way too cold and way too rainy. The rain. First of all, it's not like Paris in Chicago or Minneapolis. I don't live in those cities. I don't live in Chicago, and I love Chicago. I spent six years in Chicago.

Man, that's cold as hell. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The first time I went to Chicago and saw the waves on Lake Michigan. Yeah, I thought it was the ocean. And I was with some other journalists, and we're looking out the window on the top of the Mayflower Hotel, and I said, I didn't know Chicago was on the ocean. And they said, sweetheart, that is the lake. And I think that it was 90 degrees.

Well, look, hey, it's a big-ass lake, so I understand you thinking it's the ocean. Yeah, because there were waves. It was so cold because there were waves it was so cold there were waves yeah but no there are certain cities i don't live in not the cities that are really cold in my home state of washington beautiful state with too much rain so what was so so you're going back and forth um what um as you saw things unfold um what were you thinking and what were the conversations like for the other expats who were there in Paris and even, you know, even the French folks as they saw what was unfolding in the United States with Donald Trump at the helm? The Americans were much more politicized and radicalized than the French. The American expats, it's like James Baldwin, you know, there's still this ancestral pull. So even though Black and white Americans were living in Paris, they were watching very, very closely what was going on

with Donald Trump. And these were all Democrats for the most part. I say in the book, the Trump base is not hanging out in Paris. Trump's folks are not in Paris. The people in Paris were the Bernie Sanders folk, the Hillary Clinton people, the Barack Obama people when he first ran. So they were horrified and they were watching it very closely. The French, I had one encounter with a French woman, a very stylish French woman in a laundromat, and I was, you know, she was dramatic and I was dramatic. And, you know, I said, I fled America because of Trump. And she goes, what are you talking about? America's a great country.

She loved America. She loved the social movement, the fluidity of the social systems. And her attitude about Trump was, how long can he be there? Eight years at the most? That's nothing in the total scheme of history. And what I realized is that the French history goes back to antiquity. And they've had monarchies, and they had Napoleon, and they had rulers who, in the total scheme of things, were worse than Trump. So her attitude was, you know, come on, America's got more going for it than this Donald Trump person who will be there at the most eight years. So she wasn't impressed that I had left. In fact, she thought I was kind of foolish,

but it was an interesting perspective because you do have to look at the total arc of history and depending on the people that you're interacting with, their history was very different. And I didn't even feel like telling her about the history of my people in America, which is 400 years, which in their scheme of history is nothing. It's nothing. So it was a very different attitude. It was a different attitude. But the French were

horrified, but not to the extent that I was, not to the extent that other American expats were. The, and obviously how America was viewed on, with standing in terms of the rest of the world is a part of this as well. And I think in terms of people were just mortified with this type of behavior. I mean, we all saw how much of an ass Donald Trump was attending NATO meetings and others. Yes. So he was not looked upon favorably by French leaders, by Germany leaders, by frankly anyone except dictators. Yes, yes, yes. And I'll tell you something, Roland, for me, I was really shocked, but it was educational. As a journalist, I would watch the news stations on French television, and I

watched the ones, obviously, that were in English. And whenever I turned on any station, the first person I saw was Donald Trump. And what I realized is that America is so powerful and influential around the world that whatever we do, everybody is watching. And Trump was such a left field kind of phenomenon. Every single channel, the British channels, the French channels, the Arabic channels, every single channel led with this man. And I actually left hoping to get away from him. And I saw him up front and personal every day. So that was an education to me. I came to really understand the influence of America, just how powerful it is around the world. And then we saw the things he did, like, you know, insult Angela Merkel, Chancellor

of Germany. He didn't shake her hand. And then he came on to Emmanuel Macron when Macron came to the States. That's the French president. He came on to him kind of like, you know, because Macron is cute. And Trump obviously thought he was cute. And he's, you know, touching his arm and flicking something off of his shoulder and pulling him by the hand. And these are the kind of things's, you know, touching his arm and flicking something off of his shoulder and pulling him by the hand. And these are the kind of things that, you know, European leaders are watching. It's like, oh my goodness, this guy is really, you know, just a crude dude. He's really a crude dude. And they saw that. And I do believe that America's standing was diminished somewhat. It had to have been.

It had to have been. Because this was not the America that they admired. And Trump came behind Barack Obama. The French loved Barack Obama. They loved Michelle Obama. This was a class act. The Obamas, I think, to the French epitomized everything that they liked about African-Americans and African-American culture. And then you have Donald Trump follow that. And the contrast was just beyond glaring. What do you think the rest of the world, especially, again, you being back and forth here,

what do you think the French folks learned about America with those four years of Trump? Because there's the people don't, a lot of people really do, people who don't travel don't really understand how America is seen across the world. There's some places where we're looked to as the beacon on the hill, where others look at us as being steel colonizers. Do folks really understand the reality of white supremacy, white nationalism, and how it is not that far away? And in fact, we also, and Europe has had to deal with the rise of the far right as well.

Yes, yes, yes. No, I don't think the French in specifically in Europe in general understand the virulence of American racism because it's a different phenomenon. It's different from colonialism. It's a phenomenon based strictly on skin color. French are into class. So you can be any color. If you are of a certain class, you're accepted. incessantly on race like America. The French don't keep records by race, nationality, country of origin. So you don't have this endless reporting and comparisons by race because that's not what they're focused on. So I don't know if they know how many Senegalese are in Little Africa. I don't know if they know how many Eastern Europeans are in the other Orondismas. They don't, that's not what they're focusing on.

So they don't understand the nature of racism as we experience it in America, because in America, it's all we focus on. And when you're away from that, it is so glaring. It's so glaring. You realize it's that I compare it to being in countries that don't have guns. If you're in a country that doesn't have guns, violence is not part of the air the way it is in America. And if you're not focusing on race endlessly, interactions are not based on race. They're just not. And that changes your experience. It changes your mindset. It changes how you view the world. So no, the French didn't understand. The French really admire America because we have social mobility, which is something they do not have to the extent that America does. And that's a strength. That's a strength. It's one of the things that gives us as Black Americans strength in Europe. And in my case, or because I was living in Paris, strength in Paris. So there's still an admiration for a country that can produce a Jay-Z who can start out being born in the Marcy

projects of Brooklyn and grow up to become a partner in the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, a few miles from the Marcy Projects. That does not happen in Europe, especially among people who are in the minority. See, Black Americans, we're still in the minority. So to have the kind of social movement that we do have, that's just not the reality in other parts of the world. And it does make America different. It does make it great in the minds of many people.

My friend from Honduras, you know, owns an apartment building in Brooklyn. She's a wealthy woman. She had opportunities here she never would have had in Honduras with its drug cartel. She's a black woman. She, you know, she's a wealthy property owner in Brooklyn that could only happen in America. And that really is a fact.

The, um, a couple of questions and one that, uh, one that, um, that, that, that really jumps out in that is, in what you saw, assess the reaction you think of white Americans to Trump. Obviously, he was defeated in 2020, but the reality is the Republican Party is still the Donald Trump Party. They still are all about him, and frankly, that is not going to change. Yes. Yes. So are you asking about the attitudes of Americans here? your perspective, looking at it from the outside in, if you will, of white Americans and where this nation may be moving forward, because he is still very much dominating in the Republican Party. Yeah, you know, we have a parallel reality. My brother, I'm from the West Coast. I'm from the state of Washington. My brother still lives in the state of Washington. He lives in a small, affluent town in Washington state. He has a number of white buddies.

He's in the minority in that particular city. Most of his friends are Trumpsters. And he said they all believe that Trump was cheated out of the election. They believe that it was rigged, that he really won. And my brother said, these are not bad people. You know, these are guys I hang with. We have coffee. We talk. And I said, well, what do you think it is? What do you think the hold is that Trump has on them? And he said, at the root, he reinforces their notion of white supremacy. He said, and they're not even aware of it.

They're not even conscious, he believes. But he said he hangs with them. And that's the thing I think a lot of people don't understand when we talk about white supremacy, is that they don't believe that they're white supremacists. They don't believe that they're racist. They go, I'm not a racist. I mean, we're friends.

We hang out. We go get a drink. We play golf together. Not realizing that, no, actually, that's exactly what you are. And how they will conveniently overlook his comments about black women and his other comments, and just roll with, no, no, no, that's just him being him. They really don't see any of that because for them it's about their tax cuts

and them being pro-life or whatever the hell they talk about. Yeah, and there's also a real American inability to own their sins. See, what I like about the French, and they are not perfect by any means, their history of slavery in the Caribbean was as wretched and as awful as America's, but what the French will do is own up. I call it nation up. In 2000, they declared slavery to be a crime against humanity. They are the only country in the world that has done that. America can't even apologize for slavery. It wants to ignore history. Heaven forbid we have to take responsibility. So the whole idea of not recognizing I'm a racist, not owning up to being a white supremacist, that is, to me, America's Achilles heel. Until you can own your sins, there will never be atonement.

There will never be a kind of racial healing, because these folk just refuse. They'd almost rather die than own the sin of slavery and everything that came from that. If you can't acknowledge it, if you can't take responsibility, to me, it means you are deficient in terms of the kind of character. It's a character flaw. Not being able to take responsibility is a character flaw. And it's America's greatest, in my mind, greatest character flaw. If you can't own it, you can't acknowledge any of it. So the whole critical race theory, yeah, of course you're going to object to that because you don't want to take responsibility for it. And it's after a while, it's sort of an infantile response.

It's just it's immature. You know, we know what the history is. And for you to just put your head in the sand and your butt in the air and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's going to go away. We don't you know, we're going to deny tenure to the person who wrote about it. You, no, no, no, no, no, it's going to go away. We don't, you know, we're going to deny tenure to the person who wrote about it. You know, come on, come on. This is infantile, but this is America. 400 years in, 400 years in, still cannot take, accept responsibility. Last question for you. What did you learn the most about yourself? What I learned about myself, I learned that I'm an American. Every time I go out of America,

I learned how much of an American I am, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. I think there are strengths in being an American. I learned that I could live with a certain degree of hardship that I found surprising at my age. You know, I'm not 25 hiking, you know, through the Pyrenees. You know, I'm a comfortably retired woman in Brooklyn. But I could live in an apartment for a year that was the size of my second bedroom, the whole apartment. I could live with a space heater in the worst winter. I could live with no fan in a summer that had 107 degree temperature. It was a hot streak in Europe that year, 2019.

So I was proud of the fact that I was an older woman who could hang in a place that was more comfortable for me politically and spiritually and emotionally. So I was proud of myself for that. And I acknowledge the fact that in all of that, I want American comforts. You know, I want central heat. I want a big bathroom. You know, my bathroom is about the size of an airline bathroom. I'm not kidding. It's a shower. And I'm five foot ten. So, but, you know, you can adjust to those kind of creature comforts. At least I could, because the higher purpose was to be somewhere where I could feel that I could just be. And that's what I say about the French. They let you be. Nobody is coming at you. Nobody is looking at you. If you walk into Hermes or Louis Vuitton, nobody is

looking like you. What are you doing here? I've walked into the finest restaurants by myself and the waiters are, you know, busting their butts to seat me, to treat me well. So I love that about the French. They respect my humanity. And they respect my autonomy, which is very important. And I don't think we realize in America, for me, autonomy is everything. You know, I don't want to be bothered by somebody following me. I was out with my agent at a restaurant. She's a Black woman. We're sitting, we're having dinner. There are three white people at the table next to us. And one of the men said, so what are you girls doing? What are we doing? We're having dinner, we're minding our

own business, and why don't you do the same? But see, those kind of what I call personal invasions and personal assaults happen all the time in America when you're Black. People think they can just, you know, come upon you. French don't do that. So I love them for that. I respect them for that. And I'm comfortable in that environment. All right then. Audrey, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Roland. I appreciate that. Thank you. All right. All right. Take care. You too. congressional seat in ohio that was vacated when marsha fudge left to become secretary of housing and urban development we'll give we'll let you know who won that race on tomorrow's show hey don't forget if y'all want to join our

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