#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Black Army Vet Wins $6.8M vs LAPD, Kennedy Center Boycott Grows, Min Wage Rises, Smallwood Honored

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

12.30.2025 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Black Army Vet Wins $6.8M vs LAPD, Kennedy Center Boycott Grows, Min Wage Rises, Smallwood Honored Justice for a Black Army vet: Slade Douglas wins $.68 million after LAPD turned a welfare check into forced meds and rights violations---forcing LA to pay big. Slade joins us on what this win means. Kennedy Center boycott heats up, artists cancel shows after Trump slaps his name on JFK's arts icon. We have the latest fallout ahead. It's about time: Federal minimum wage is finally bumping up from $7.25, right when Americans need it the most. A.J. Smitherman built Black Wall Street's voice with The Tulsa Star. Joining us,  Founder of Black Wall Street 100, Raven Majia Williams. We lost a legend.... Gospel great Richard Smallwood... Artists remember his legacy tonight. #BlackStarNetwork partner: Fanbasehttps://www.startengine.com/offering/fanbase This Reg A+ offering is made available through StartEngine Primary, LLC, member FINRA/SIPC.  This investment is speculative, illiquid, and involves a high degree of risk, including the possible loss of your entire investment. You should read the Offering Circular (https://bit.ly/3VDPKjD) and Risks (https://bit.ly/3ZQzHl0) related to this offering before investing. Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV. The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love.

Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's sounded out together.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. The social media trend is landing some Gen Z years in jail. The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired and the massive TikTok boycott against Target that actually makes no sense. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media,

but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online, in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast. Listen to the Brad versus Everyone podcast. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, You can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeartPodcastawards.com.

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Like that. Support this man, black media. He makes sure our stories are told. I thank you for being the voice of Black America rolling. I love y'all. All momentum we have now. We have to keep this going. The video looks phenomenal.

See, this is between Black Star Network and Black own media and something like CNN. You can't be black on media and be skating. It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home, you dig? Filling in for Woolen Martin tonight, and here's what's coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered,

streaming live on the Black Star Network app. Justice for a Black Army vet, Slade Douglas, wins $6.6 million after LAPD turned a welfare check into forced men's and rights violations, forcing L.A. to pay big. Slade joins us tonight on what this win means to him. Plus, Kennedy Center boycott heats up. Artist canceled shows after Trump slaps his name on JFK's artist icon. And we have the latest fallout ahead. Plus, it's about time. Federal minimum wage is finally bumping up from $7.25

right when Americans need it the most. And A.J. Smitherman built Black Wall Street's voice with the Tulsa Star, joining us, founder of Black Wall Street 100, Raven Maja Williams. And today we lost the legend. Gospel great Richard Smallwood. Artists remember his legacy tonight. It's time to bring the phone on Roland and filtered streaming live on the Black Star Network. Let's go. Well, the Los Angeles jury has sided with Army veterans Slade Douglas in a disturbing police

misconduct case against the city of L.A. awarding him $6.6 million in compensatory damages. another $170,000 in punitive damages. The case stems from a 2019 so-called welfare check. LAPD officers came to Douglas' home, following a call to the Veterans Crisis Line. He was detained, taken to a hospital, and subjected to forced treatment and invasive procedures after he tried to assert his rights and even called 911 himself. Joining us tonight is Slade Douglas and his attorney, Lauren McRae. We want to thank you both for joining us tonight. Thank you.

Thank you. Absolutely. Slade. Walk us through what happened. Yeah, well, actually this was a squatting incident. I had made a call to the Veterans Affairs as it related to a systemic discrimination complaint. It was a very racist encounter. The individual whom I was speaking to when I was describing my, relaying my concerns

of discrimination, she asked me was I suicidal and I indicated her no, it's racist, to ask a black man if he's suicidal because he complained about discrimination. At that juncture, she indicated that all black veterans think they're being discriminated against. At that time, I disconnected the call. Subsequently, she called back and continued her tirating and indicated to me that no one was discriminating against me, so forth and so on. I disconnected the call, and I indicated to her that I would be filing a complaint on her. approximately 40 minutes later, the LAPD officers showed up at my location.

And tell us about what happened. Yeah, at that time, they told me that they had received a call. They asked me, could they come in and talk to me, which clearly was a consensual encounter. They entered. And a lot of people have asked me this question, why did I allow them to enter? And I've also asked my myself that question, but I was on the impression that they had good intentions, but when they entered, I realized that they did not have good intentions. And when we have to understand as taxpayers, we pay these institutions to act with integrity to protect our rights and in an act in a lawful manner. When they came in, they immediately begin to attempt to search

my residence. At that time, I began to insert my rights. Subsequently, they refuse to leave out that. I asked them to leave seven times. So at that point in time, I decided to exercise another Constitutional right, and I reached out to 911. As a result of that call, I was unlawfully detained at that time in order for them to cover up what had happened. They conspired with the LAFD and others and said,

we need to take them to the hospital to protect the city and the cops from liability. And then when they took me to the hospital, it was strictly to evidence fabrication. They drug me, and then they engaged in a sexual assault with the instrument. Actually, it's under California Penal Code 249. Its purposes is to abuse, humiliate. And after that juncture, and they did about fourth catheterization. After that, when they located nothing in my system, I was released, but I was confined for approximately seven hours. Tell me, how do you feel about that? I mean, as a veteran.

It was a betrayal, certainly about a country, and the people that entrusted to actually protect our rights. However, you know, the people of California, they spoke loud and clear, and they said that constitutional rights are not optional. And I think the verdict is loud and it's clear, and the public is just tired of municipalities, especially law enforcement. abusing their power as opposed to, you know, acting in a lawful and ethical matter to ensure that, you know, all our rights are protected. Well, your attorney is with us tonight. Lauren McRae, tell us a little bit more about what the jury found to be troubling in this case. Yes.

So one thing I'll add that Slade didn't touch on yet was in the lawsuit, we ended up discovering that one of the officers involved had a history of alcohol abuse as well as a history of mental health disorders including bipolar schizophrenia so once we learned that we added a claim for negligent employment supervision and retention and the jury found for us on that claim and found that the city failed to properly supervise its officers including one of the defendant officers here and so following this verdict, which we're very happy about, of course, we are going to continue to engage the community and call to action that LAPD implements more oversight so that these officers are being held accountable and being taken off duty when they are clearly not fit.

I mean, you can't have officers out here with a badge and a gun doing welfare checks when they themselves clearly are in severe need of mental health assistance and substance abuse resources. So that was one thing that I know the jury was definitely appalled about to find out that the city knew that this officer had these issues and failed to act in accordance with the law and make sure that the officers were fit for duty. So in addition to that, I mean, the jury was also upset that, you know, Mr. Douglas did nothing wrong. He was in his own home, exercises right, as he said, to call 911.

And instead of allowing him to do that or just simply leaving his home as he requested over and over, they decided to retaliate against him. And we had a claim for First Amendment retaliation. They also found for us on that claim as well. And we believe that the verdict, you know, justice was served with this verdict. And it sent a message to the city of L.A. and LAPD officers that you cannot come into a man's home and violate his rights with impunity. We want to bring in our panel tonight to ask questions. We have Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali, former senior advisor for environmental justice EPA.

We also have tonight Candace Kelly, a legal analyst and hosts for not all hood in South Orleans. Orange, New Jersey. Santiago, let's start with you. Do you have a question? Well, Mr. Douglas, first of all, thank you for your service. I come from a family of folks who have been serving for a long, long time. I'm curious, you began breaking it down for us.

And in that first phone call, there was an individual who responded to you by saying that, you know, black veterans make these types of claims. Did anything happen to that individual? Because they kind of began this ball rolling. Yeah, for my understanding, action was actually taken against her, and I did attain some of those documents through the Freedom of Information Act. However, with a bureaucracy, it's difficult to attain, you know, all the documents. But based upon my knowledge and what the records reflect, yes, they did take action against her.

Thank you. Candice Kelly. You know, I am wondering, first of all, congratulations on the win. I mean, obviously this is something that was due to you. There are so many rights that were violated. It was like a gang was involved in conspiracy to take you out. But I am wondering in terms of what you want people to know about the process and what you've learned along the way because you were well informed

and you were able to pull through, get an attorney, do what you needed to do in order to go through the system after several years. What do you want people to know about this process so that they can keep the hope and faith and understand that the system that is out there, though often it seems like it's not built for them. If you work it and really have hope and a lot of prayer, you can end up like you and your attorney in a successful win. What do you want people to know? Yeah, absolutely. Well, for one, that this process was dehumanizing, and it was clear that the city of Los Angeles and LAPD felt as though certain people did not have, weren't entitled to constitutional rights. However, again, the state of the people, you know, prove that that was not the case, that they will stand up for what's right.

And I think one of the things people have to understand is that, you know, the only thing we can do is do the best that we can. Like you heard, Lauren, indicate that one of the officers actually had mental health issues. He was bipolar schizophrenia and they were aware of this. So they endanger the public safety by allowing somebody to actually to have any service calling for clarification. It was not a welfare check. I was actually swatted on. So it was a false emergency response prompted by the VA. But what the city did and the city attorney, dangayson.

Everyone needs to take care of their mental health, even running back Bijan Robinson. When I'm on the field, I'm feeling the pressure. I usually just take a deep breath. When I'm just breathing and seeing what's in front of me, everything just slows down. It just makes you feel great before I run the play. Just like Bijan, we all need a strong mental game. and off the field. Make a game plan for your mental health at love your mind playbook.org. Love your mind.

Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Foundation, the Arthur M. Blank Family Foundation, and the ad console. The social media trend that's landing some Gen Zers in jail. The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired. I'm going to take Francesco off the network entirely. The massive TikTok boycott against Target that makes no actual sense. I will continue getting stuff from Target. And I will continue to not pay for it.

And the MAGA influencers whose trip to the White House ended in embarrassment. So refreshing to have the press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulation. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast, hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you on a wild ride who the most delulu takes on the internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an,

independent perspective. Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad versus Everyone podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible.

There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. malicious prosecution by using a welfare check label to make it appears that it was an act of concern when clearly swan is a retaliatory act to cause harm, which is also under California Pinole Code 1483. false emergency response. So, and again, their defense was, it was a defense of Melissa's prosecution and slander because what they were actually saying is that I'm ill and dangerous. And when I had not committed a crime, when they had no warrant, that I can't be left alone in my home.

So as country Wayne would say, let that sizzling your spirit. Well, Slade Douglas, congratulations. And thank you for sharing your story. with us tonight. Lauren McRae, we appreciate your time as well. Thank you. Well, this is Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. We'll be right back. Are you ready for the holidays? This week on a balanced life with Dr. Jackie, we're talking about all things anxiety and the holidays, whether it's performance anxiety, presence versus presents, making certain that everybody in your space understand the boundaries and how to respect your home. This week, we're talking about those things that will allow you to have a peaceful holiday season.

It really is not about perfection. It's really about, you know, the house feeling warm and cozy and peaceful. You don't have to like everybody, but what you can do is be cordial in those environments. That's all this week on A Balance Life with Dr. Jackie here on Black Star Network. They said the quiet part out loud. Black votes are a threat. So they erased them. After the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Republican legislatures moved fast. New voter ID laws, polling place shutdowns, purges of black voters from the rolls.

Trump's Justice Department didn't stop it, they joined in. In 2018, his DOJ backed Ohio's voter purge system, a scheme that disproportionately erased black voters, their goal, erase black votes and political power. Yeah, that happened. These are the kinds of stories that we cover every day on Roland Martin unfiltered. Subscribe on YouTube and download the Black Star Network app. Support fact-based independent journalism that centers African Americans and the issues that matter to our community.

If in this country right now, you have people get up in the morning, and the only thing they can think about is how many people they can hurt, and they got the power, that's the time for mourning. For better or worse, what makes America special, it's that legal system that's supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. We are at a point of a moral emergency. We must raise a voice of outrage.

We must raise a voice of compassion. And we must raise a voice of unity. We are not in a crisis, of party versus party. We are in a crisis of civilization, a human rights crisis, and a crisis of democracy itself. And guess what? You've been chosen to make sure that those that would destroy, those that would hate, don't have the final say, and they don't ultimately win. Welcome back. A.J. Smitherman helped build Black Wall Street's voice as the publisher of the Tulsa Star. He exposed the theft of black oil wealth and used his paper to warn the community and urge self-defense

against the growing threat of lynching. After the 1921, Tulsa Race Massacor raised Greenwood to the ground. Smitherman was indicted for inciting the violence. Forced to flee Oklahoma, he lived in exile for decades. He would be exonerated long after his death. And now, more than a century later, his great granddaughter is honoring his legacy and making sure that his story is finally told. Tonight, she's joining us, the founder of Black Wall Street 100, Raven Masha Williams. Hi, thank you for having me. Oh, I'm so happy to have you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Tell us a little bit about your story. Well, it's really my great-grandfather's store I'm here to talk about and have been so excited to release the book on his birthday, which was December 27th, and to launch officially the A.J. Smith of Men Foundation. So basically, you know, my great-grandfather is a very unsung hero. And I've known about his story, fortunately, my entire life because I was a relative. But this is a very, very intentionally buried story,

the story of the Tulsa Massacre. But so many other things my great grandfather did besides be one of the co-founders of Black Wall Street in Greenwood, one of the very first things he did of the most significance was to be the founder of the Negro Guardianship League, which helped preserve oil wealth that was being racketeered and taken from natives and Black Friedman in Oklahoma. And that is what the movie Sarah Oil, Sarah's Oil, talks about. And so it's very timely. The release of this book and this movement has started, prior this movement started in.

in order to make sure that in 2021 for the Centennial, that there was the attention due to this movement and to the massacre and to the atrocity that occurred. But what we're really about now with the AJ Smitherman Foundation and the movement Black Wall Street 100 is to really bring a historical record and an accountability to making sure that we have an ability to tell our own stories.

It's been really challenging to do so with the industry and the exploitation of this story. So I'm really much on a mission with these movements to help preserve the history. We know that there's a very intentional movement to eradicate history, black history in particular, and other histories that don't fit the agenda of today's political movements. But this is really not a political movement. This is a historical preservation institution that we're developing. Tell us more about how the Tulsa Star challenged power in Black Wall Street. Well, my big daddy, as we affectionately call A.J. Smitherman and my family was not just somebody that would be a recorder of history, but he confronted power very much in all of his articles.

He intentionally was honoring Black Wall Street. He was honoring the, he was honoring the ancestors that he knew had freed them, gotten themselves freed from slavery and really wanted to be the first. He was part of the first free generation of slave, that people that were not enslaved. And he was on a mission to make sure that people understood that just because blacks had been enslaved for 400 years did not speak of the lack of their wisdom, their power, or their resilience. And that first generation of blacks in America that were

free from slavery, they accomplished so much. And it's just, it's horrendous how all of their achievements were burned down to the ground and in that town. And I'm just so proud of the ability for the resilience of the descendants of the people that survived and the people that did not survive. Tell us more about what the exile cost him and your family. Well, if you look at Bob Johnson, who is the founder of BET, if you look at Rupert Murdoch, these are publishers. That's what my great-grandfather was. He was the very first publisher of a Democratic newspaper

that was nationally distributed in America. And his newspaper was there to help put the black vote. He felt very much that the vote, which was Republican at the time needed to be flipped to be diversified so that people would be paying attention to the black vote at all. So his, his, his, bravery and what he risked being there in Tulsa at the time when there was the great the grandfather clause was in order no one could vote except in Tulsa Oklahoma in the

Greenwood district he was the only elected black president of a elect of a election precinct so that is why black Wall Street actually got to become what it was was because they were really the only place that had freedom of franchise to vote. And a lot of that was the efforts of my great-grandfather to make sure that they had the right to vote. And that's because he was a lawyer and he was a publisher of a newspaper and he used the pen and the power of the pen.

And I just wanna say, Roland Martin, I know you're not with us tonight on this show, but our family is very grateful to you and very much look at you as someone who's walking in the footsteps, of A.J. Smittenen. Wow. Tell us a little bit more about Black Wall Street 100 and what you're doing to preserve the history today. So Black Walt Street 100 was started a few years ago because I started to recognize how much there was a movement to eradicate the history and how much there was a need for preservation. And there were platforms available online now so that we could make sure to preserve our

own history as the universities and other institutions are being threatened by the inability to share our history. I felt there was a need to create a platform. So if you go to black wall street 100.com, you will find the platform that you can join the community. We already have members there. It's an active community. And you will find black history information. But you will also find a very intentional practice that I have been engaged in, which is to enlighten people about the power of the need to use AI. So there are also AI educational tools on that platform because I'm a big believer that artificial intelligence and our ability to become adept at it is going to be a powerful tool for us to level out the playing field. And I also do not want our people to be left

behind. So I have developed other platforms that you can get to from black wall street 100.com, including things like using AI 101 and different things. So please, everyone who wants to be part of this community doesn't want to not only be left behind in the future, but I really think that the lessons from the past can lead to the promises of the future. Let's bring our panel in tonight. We'll start with Candace Kelly. Do you have a question for Ms. Raven Masha Williams tonight? Yes, first of all, congratulations.

Thank you for all of this important information, especially the time when, listen, just earlier this year in January, Mark Zuckerberg said, listen, no fact checking with meta anymore. We'll use third parties. So the fact that you are talking about a newspaper that got actual clean, true information out, I know that was very important, but can you take us back to that time to explain how important that paper was to getting information out and really kind of collecting all of the country

and understanding what was going on in terms of race and challenges that people were facing at that time? Yes, and thank you very much for asking because that is part of the movement as well with Black Wall Street as I found it very challenging. and when I went to go create the documentary series, which eventually did happen on the Oprah Winfrey Network, called the Legacy of Black Wall Street, but I spent years shopping that project

and wrote a book to be the basis of the historical record because you need intellectual property to back up any thing that is claimed to be based on a true story. Well, if you go and do your research, you will see that any project that has anything to do with Black Wall Street or the Tulsa Massacre, The historical record was AJ Smitherman's paper. In large part, he had the only black newspaper in town.

And it was also his epic poem that he wrote, that he wrote intentionally to document the Tulsa massacre. So he very much took it upon himself. He knew he was intentionally setting a record. In fact, when he had to flee Tulsa after the massacre, the end of the secretary, I have correspondence. between he and the secretary of the NAACP where they're suggesting that he flee to Canada because he was exonerated I mean he was indicted for inciting

those riots well instead he wrote back saying no not only am I not going to flee to Canada I'm going to write this poem I'm going to perform it which he did throughout churches and the NWACP helped him do that as he fled to get all the way to Buffalo so he could be close to the Canadian border just in case he did have to escape. But he wrote that poem as a descriptive poem to make it a historical archive of what happened. So that poem is not a piece of just art. It's a very artistic piece of history and a historical record. And that's in the book. So if you want to check out the book and the story leading up, go to a.J.smytherman.com. Thank you. Dr. Santiago. Well, thank you. Miss

Williams for actually helping me to have a deeper understanding. I thought I was pretty well versed on Black Wall Street, but you just took me deeper, so I appreciate it. Could you talk a little bit about black economic power and education and your family and moving forward in this moment, how important that might be? Absolutely, and during Kwanza, I couldn't think of a better time to do it than today. And yes, very much my great-grandfather was into buying black, for lack of a more direct way to put it.

He really thought that we needed to support one another in buying black. And I'm also a big proponent in that to this day, I do believe that our spending needs to be directed, especially in these economic times, when we really don't have to continue down. this trajectory of consuming goods that do not empower our community. And he was big, big, big on that. And I didn't even know the history to the degree of which he was a proponent of that until I excavated his newspapers, which are available on the Smithsonian website and Oklahoma Historical Society. So I thank them for preserving those websites, those newspapers, because that was how I was able to do the research. But absolutely keeping the money within the black community is it's imperative.

And every time you go to spend money, ask yourself, is there a black business or a business that is not, that is supporting your community that you should rather be spending your money on or that you should buy that product instead of maybe one that is absolutely hurting your community potentially? Raven Williams, thank you so much for joining us tonight on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Thank you so much for having me. And again, thank you, Roland, for being who you are and providing us this platform, very much like my grandfather did. Wow, we thank you so much. And we have so much more coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered streaming live on the Black Star Network. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's sounded outtogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. The social media trend that's landing some Gen Z years in jail. The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired.

I'm going to take Francesco off the network entirely. The massive TikTok boycott against Target that makes no actual sense. I will continue getting stuff from Target. And I will continue to not pay for it. And the MAGA influencers whose trip to the White House ended in embarrassment. So refreshing to have the press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulation. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things

happening online in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you on a wild ride through the most delulu takes on the internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an independent perspective. Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad versus Everyone podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, You can decide who takes home the 26 IHard Podcast Awards,

podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com. Now through February 22nd, see all the nominees and place your vote at IHeartPodcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. If in this country right now, you have people get up in the morning, and the only thing they can think about is how many people they can hurt and they've got the power, that's the time for mourning. For better or worse, what makes America special, it's that legal system that's supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority.

We are at a point of a moral emergency. We must raise a voice of outrage. We must raise a voice of outrage. We must raise a voice of, of compassion and we must raise a voice of unity. We are not in a crisis of party versus party. We are in a crisis of civilization, a human rights crisis, and a crisis of democracy itself. And guess what? You've been chosen to make sure that those that would destroy, those that would hate, don't have the final say and they don't ultimately win. Hey y'all. Welcome to the other side of change only on the Black Star Network and hosted by myself, Rea Baker, and my good sister, Jamira Burley. We are just two millennial women tackling everything at the intersection of politics, gender, and pop culture. And we don't just settle for commentary. This is about solution-driven dialogue to get us to the world as it could be and not just as it is. Watch us on the Black Star Network, so tune in to the other side of change. Are you ready for the holidays this week on about.

Life with Dr. Jackie, we're talking about all things, anxiety and the holidays, whether it's performance anxiety, presence versus presents, making certain that everybody in your space understands the boundaries and how to respect your home. This week, we're talking about those things that will allow you to have a peaceful holiday season. It really is not about perfection. It's really about, you know, the house feeling warm and cozy and peaceful. You don't have to like everybody, But what you can do is be cordial in those environments. That's all this week on a balanced life with Dr. Jackie here on Black Star Network. Melanie Campbell, National Coalition on Black Civic Participation and Black Women's Roundtable.

And we are watching Roland unfiltered all day every day. 24-7, spread the word. Well, for the first time, more workers will earn at least $15 an hour than those making the federal minimum wage of just $7.25. Starting January 1st, more than 8.3 million workers will see a pay raise as 19 states increase their minimum wage. Those states include Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. Three additional states, Florida, Alaska, and Oregon will raise their minimum wages later

on this year. By the end of 2025, four states will have minimum wages of $17 an hour or higher for some or all workers in Washington. The wage raises 2.8% to $17.33. New Jersey will set $18.92 for long-term care workers, while New York City, Long Island, and Westchester County will move to $17 an hour for all workers. Let's bring in the panel tonight, Dr. San Diego. Tell me, what does it mean that now more workers live in states with a $15 minimum wage than those stuck at just $7.25? Well, hopefully it means that we no longer have a poverty wage, even though we know that there's still an incredible amount of work that needs to be done. Because when we were at, what was it, $7 and some change, you're only talking about

$15,000 a year before taxes. So after taxes, you know, you're talking about a significantly a lower number, yet everything else continues to increase. So why can't the wage that we're paying folks increase since we know that when you go into the grocery store, you may spend four or $500 just on a few bags of grocery whenever you get your electric bill. We know that that continues to go up. We can go down the line on everything that continues to get more expensive, but yet individuals have been resistant to actually making sure that folks had a fair and livable wage, if you will. And let me be very clear that we still have a lot of work to do there.

The last thing that I'll say is that we should put this in context. So many of the individuals who have been making decisions about folks being able to have this living wage, if we can label it that way, on Capitol Hill as an example, those folks make a minimum of $174,000 a year where other individuals are just barely scraping by. So a lot of work still to do. but we want to make sure that we're praising progress where it might be, especially under the administration that we currently have. But, you know, we've got to make sure that we are honoring folks allowing them to have the dignity of work. People want to work. But they also want to make

sure that if they're putting their time in, that they're being remunerated the same way that many of these CEOs and others are who do less work than they do. You know, I guess the big question is, why has it been more than 10 years since the federal minimum wage has changed, Kansas? So, you know, it's my understanding that we're talking about the federal minimum wage. It's still at 725. We're talking about a state-by-state movement, right, in terms of how these numbers are going up, starting with 19 states, as you said, eventually it would be 22. But $7.25 since that hasn't been changed since 2009.

Even if we go up to $17, like Dr. Santiago said, we're talking about really, you're between $30 to $35,000 and then you have to take out taxes. So every couple of weeks, you are making maybe $850 to $950. At the end of the day, if you have a family of four and you're trying to live, if you're trying to gain wealth, if you're trying to pass wealth on throughout your generations to come, that just is not workable. So yes, it will be a boost to some. You also have to think about businesses, right?

businesses that have to all of a sudden meet this minimum wage, that might just be the gap that takes them over and closes their doors or forces people within their family to come and work for them for that minimum wage because other people on the outside know that they have choices and they're trying to run a business. So it's two sides of the coin here. There are more states to go, number one. And when we talk about minimum wage, we are talking about $7.25. cents on the federal level and most of those is that those numbers are still in the south. So now we're looking at something totally different in terms of what's the context that we're that we're dealing with. So for some, it might be good. But at the end of the day, what you take home every two weeks with this pay is not going to get you far. If you're trying to go to college, send your kids to college,

you know, buy a home, buy food, and keep the lights on, it's not that. much of a difference. And I think that for some people, yes, it's a boost, but at the end of the day, for long-term wealth, it doesn't do. Well, we have more news on the other side of this break. Stay with us. You're watching Rolla Martin unfiltered on the Black Star Network app. They said the quiet part out loud. Black votes are a threat. So they erased them. After the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Republican legislatures moved. fast. New voter ID laws. Polling place shutdowns. Purges of black voters from the rolls. Trump's Justice Department didn't stop it. They joined in. In 2018, his DOJ backed Ohio's voter

purge system, a scheme that disproportionately erased black voters, their goal, erase black votes and political power. Yeah, that happened. These are the kinds of stories that we cover every day on Roland Martin Unfiltered. and download the Black Star Network app. Support fact-based independent journalism that centers African Americans and the issues that matter to our community. In this country right now, you have people get up in the morning, and the only thing they can think about is how many people they can hurt, and they've got the power. That's the time for mourning. For better or worse, what makes America special, it's that legal system that's supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority.

We are at a point of a moral emergency. We must raise a voice of outrage. We must raise a voice of compassion. And we must raise a voice of unity. We are not in a crisis of party versus party. We are in a crisis of civilization, a human rights crisis, and a crisis of democracy itself.

And guess what? You've been chosen to make sure, that those that would destroy, those that would hate, don't have the final say, and they don't ultimately win. Smallwood's career in this morning for us of the old children, Grammy not being gospel heard from tonight today and so much. Smallwood's career spanned over 50 years, making his name as a composer, gospel singer, and songwriter. In 1996, Houston covered, Whitney Houston, covered his song, I Love the Lord with the Georgia Mass Choir for the soundtrack of the movie The Preacher's Wife

and Boys to Men sang the snippet of the song on their 1997 album, Evolution. Smallwood's contribution to the gospel community is immeasurable. Here to tell us about how he influenced their lives and careers are gospel artists. Tonight we have V. Michael McKay. We also have Ricky Dillard. I understand Byron Cage is here with us. And Carol Mallard, I want to thank you all for joining us tonight. Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, here I am. Hello. Hello. It's wonderful to have you all here. Donnie McLarkin, we'll start with you. How are you feeling right now? Well, it's kind of hard to say how I'm feeling because I'm sure all of us on here feel about the same way because we're a part of the family.

Gospel music lost one of its pioneers and one of our friends and our brothers. And so it's kind of a bittersweet moment right now. V. Michael Mouquet, what were your thoughts when you initially heard the news today? Carol, Carol, what were your thoughts when you heard the news today? Ricky Dillard. It's been a bittersweet morning to accept. this loss, our friend, our brother for over 40 years. Do you see him go sleep?

It's very, very heartening for me and for our gospel community. We thank the Lord for all that Richard has been to this community, to churches and music all over the world. So we are mourning a big, big, big loss today. Can someone tell me just how, Richard Smallwood influenced you. Well, that's easy to do. I can concur with Ricky Dillard.

Richard really was a pioneer. He put together classical music along with gospel, made a sound all of its own, and had the heart of a real maestro. He could put songs together that the whole entire world could sing. And they were not just little, you know, coritas or small little tunes, but they were literally great songs that became the backdrop of gospel music. Like I love the Lord, like Center of My Joy.

And the list goes on and on. He crossed boundaries. He wasn't just black gospel. He was gospel music, period. My sister, well, I call it my sister, Whitney Houston, loved Richard's music. And that's the reason why I was incorporated into preachers' wives because of Whitney, loving Richard Smallwood. And there's so much I can say about how he inspired.

I did an album called Psalms, Hems, and Spiritual Songs. And Richard came and he played the piano on the song. And I sang one of his songs and won a Grammy. But it was more so, it's not so much about the award, but it's about the humility of this man that come and to be a part of something that he didn't have to be a part of. But because he was a pioneer, he literally extended himself past limits. And Byron Cage is really something that his music is still influencing us today. And what is amazing about Richard Smallwood is he is gospel music. and for him to combine classical music with gospel music when it wasn't being done during that period of time was absolutely legendary.

I met him in 1977 before he recorded his first solo album when he was on Donald Vales recording. He did a song called He's Able, and Donald Vails introduced me to him. I had to be 15 years old at the time, and who would know many, many years after this time that the Lord would take him home at this particular time? He is probably one of the greatest to ever do gospel music, one of the greatest to ever write gospel music, one of the greatest to ever put groups together with vision and his Richard Smallwood singers even before them. Angela Winbush and I were together in Grand Rapids last weekend, and we were praying for Richard. We were talking about Richard and what his influence has been to this community and to us in particular as well. So he certainly is going to be tremendously missed. He was my brother. He was my friend. And I'm just thankful that I had an opportunity to rub elbows with some of the greatest artists like Richard Smallwood.

Byron, we know that you're in the car having this conversation with us right now. And it just really speaks to who Richard Smallwood is and the impact he had on you. We just appreciate you for your time tonight. We'll go to you next. Richard's songwriting and his composing so unique. I mean, he was one of a kind. When I first heard of Richard Smallwood, it was in the late 80s. And my spiritual father out of Chicago,

where Milton Brunton was a radio personality. And he introduced Chicago to the music ministry and the artistry of this incredible musician, writer, producer, singer, innovator. He started out with the Richard Smallwood singers, giving us them, and so many great songs, as Pastor Donnie and Brother Byron mentioned early, great songs like healing and anthem of praise.

You're talking about angels watching over me. Jesus, you're the center of my joy. Glory, Father Lord, I love the Lord. Trust me, and you see, I'm going on and on and on. That's how great this man, was and to see him revive his artistry in another direction by bringing us a choir which was vision. And you know, many of us are choir guys on here and we've all had choirs through our lives. And Richard brought us that awesome choir vision.

And one of their first hit was the song Total Praise. And it sang all over the world, all in church. is everywhere. Richard's legacy, he was before his time, might I add. He was before his time to bring us such... All right, son. Time to put out this campfire. Dad, we learned about this in school. Oh, did you now? Okay. What's first? Smokey Bear said to... First, drown it with a bucket of water, then stirred with a shovel. Wow, you sound just like him. Then he said, if it's still warm, then do it again. Where can I learn all this? It's all on Smokey Bear.com. with other wildfire prevention tips, because only you can prevent wildfires.

Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the ad council. The social media trend that's landing some Gen Zers in jail. The progressive media darling, whose public meltdown got her fired. I'm going to take Francesco off the network entirely. The massive TikTok boycott against Target that makes no actual sense.

I will continue getting stuff from Target, and I will continue to not pay for it. And the MAGA influencers, whose trip to the White House, embarrassment. So refreshing to have the press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulate. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast, hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week,

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Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Incredible music and to hear Whitney Houston do a cover and Aretha and so many, many great Shaka Khan. I mean, this man, this man will be missed. His legacy, his person, his artistry, his music. music and I was even able to write a song with him called When I Think that has been featured, Grammy nominated, Stella nominated, and so forth. And we did the song together. It is a big, big loss for the kingdom and for gospel music all over the world. How impactful is this man of God.

was to gospel music. Byron Cage, let's go back to you. Talk to us a little bit more about how he touched you. You know what some thing? Richard called me the total praise police for the tenor part. Because 90% of the tenors around the country sing the parts wrong. I would told us all of the time. I would say tenors, no, it's not Richard, didn't I write,

Lord I will lift He wrote Lord I will lift And he did not say mine eyes To the heels No he said to the heels So I got on people's nerves Because I kept saying stop changing Richard's song learning

That's the reason why he wrote it He wrote it with such compassion It was different variations that were just So legendary that I had to listen To every nuance of his music To make sure that I did teach it wrong And I also told Richard People used to think that he was my father.

And Richard said, Byron, don't try it. I ain't that old. So we would laugh about that. But he certainly, man, has left a wonderful legacy for us to be a great man. And we'll miss him tremendously. Absolutely. V. Michael McKay. Tell us how Richard Small would touch you.

Can you hear me? Tonight, I know that we also have Pam. Morris that is just now joining us. We'd like to bring her into the conversation as well. And there you are. Tell us how we're small wood touched you. Well, let me first of all say that Richard Smallwood is, I was a gentleman.

He was an icon and he touched me by writing music that inspires, uplift, and encourage everybody. not just a certain segment of people, but all people, no matter what religion you were, no matter if you went to church or you didn't go to church. All right, because when Whitney Houston did the preacher's wife, I love the Lord, a lot of people that maybe didn't go to church, they heard Richard Smallwood.

Yeah. Oh, yes. And I play him on the radio. He's in my format. He's in my format. often. And when I think about back to Aretha Franklin's funeral and so many on here was there, when Fred Nelson saw him in the audience and we just hugged each other and took a picture, he pointed for him to come up. And I think he played total praise for about a half an hour.

Why everybody in the family and the special guest, Tyler Perry and his whole staff and Whoopi Goldberg and And Cicely Tyson and all of them were walking in. He was still playing total praise. What do you think young artists can take on? He was amazing. He was a friend of mine. Tell us more about that friendship. Tell us more about that friendship that you had with Richard Smallwood. It's okay. Listen, we have audio issues tonight, but I promise you, it is not going to slow us now. We will be talking about Richard Smallwood for the rest of the show. Mr. McClurkin, tell us what young people are artists. to take away from Mr. Smallwood.

Well, literally, you, on this show right now, you've got some of the greatest gospel audience. You've got the choir master himself, Ricky Dillard, you've got Byron K., who is praise and worship king. You've got V. Michael McKay. You've got Pam Morris, who's literally Chicago. You've got all of this because we are a family. And the one thing that I would tell any of the younger,

And the younger artists is that there's a camaraderie that is something that we need to develop, something that needs to be valued because there's something about this gospel music that makes us family. And when you sit back and you look at this iconic mono gene by the name of Richard Smallwood, you see someone who did not have any, we didn't have any gospel beefs. We didn't have any gospel beefs. Richard was that loving guy. He was the creative. He was the maestro.

And if we take his example and if we really, really evaluate who he was, it'll cause us to be closer. It will cause us to appreciate music in a greater way. Like Byron was saying, he was a stickler for music. Now, as humble as he was,

just don't mess with the music. He was a stickler for accuracy, as you can tell, with the richest moment singers, as you could tell with vision. I met Richard maybe about two when he came to New York with Tremaine Hawkins and Walter Hawkins. And that was the first time that I ever met him and sat down at a church called Little Zion. And I was mesmoized with this man by the way he played. And by the way, he incorporated the classical into the gospel.

And I had never heard him before. At that point on, we became very, very close brothers. And to the generations that are coming up now, even if they didn't get a chance to meet him personally, his music will impact them as they listen and they become students of gospel music. They'll never be able to escape the excellency of Richard Smallman. He is amazing, you're right.

If you Michael, we want to bring me back into the conversation. I think there's a problem with the audio and you break it up. I can hear you. Talk to it. Okay, I can hear you now. Yeah. Well, you know, when you say Richard Smallwood, you're talking about someone that the Lord has made. I mean, we can't really calculate or we can't really try to figure out how he did what he did and what he contributes.

Because it was like God's hand was on him, just amazing. And his music was infectious. All of us composed as songwriters, conductors, singers, choir directors. Everybody was affected by Richard Smallwood's gift. I mean, he was huge. And his gift was broad. It did not belong to just a local environment. But it had no boundaries.

It had no boundaries. And as Reverend Donna McCleurton said, Pastor McLarkin, you know, he used all genres. You could tell he was educated, but you could tell he was spiritual at the same time. So, you know, he definitely left him off on all of us. And I like the concept of family collaboration that we spoke of that Reverend McClurkin.

I heard him speak of also because that's what it was. Even though we were different, everybody respected everybody. Richard respected other gifts and he made room for other gifts. Just an amazing guy. I think it's also amazing that the younger artists like, in Houston and Boys to Men, sampled a little bit of his work.

And did you speak to us about that? Sure. His music expanded so many different genres, from classical to doing work with Whitney Houston. I mean, there were no boundaries. Some of us, music is, is typically for the church. Though he was created for the church,

but it was so broad, he took the church places. The church would not have been able to go unless it had it not been for Richard Smallwood. I would like to bring back into the conversation. Ricky Dillard was standing by. Are you there? Yes.

Yes. I had some connection issues, but I'm back on. So thank you so much for your patience with me. That's okay. The Wi-Fi is not going to slow us down at all. What are your thoughts right now? We've said so much.

I mean, you know, Richard Smallwood, every year on New Year's Day, I go to Richard's House. When I moved to the D.C. area, I am Senior Minister of Church Worship at the Ebenezer AME Church. And after our worship experience, I would go to Richard's House for Black-E Peas and food and cellarship. to bring it the new year with him every year for the last, possibly 10 years. And for him to go to sleep on a day before we would annually meet has been devastating to our friendship, our friends who normally meet with us on New Year's Day just to celebrate and to thank God for a new year. Richard had so much greatness in him and to see him on stage and giving all that he knows, all the skill, all of the anointing, everything that God has given to Richard, he'll leave it on stage every time. It never fails that when he ministers or writes, it's going to leave a lasting impression.

It's music, timeless music, timeless music. timeless music. I mean, music that will live on and on. Even after he sleeps, his name will still be ringing on radio stations and in churches and in concerts and in musicals and drama. His name will be ringing for a very, very, very long time to come. It has been an honor to know such a gift of the person in Richard Smallwood, the Richard Smallwood singers who were his backup group for many, many years before he even started Vision. There are many of them left the group from Angela Winbush and so many names that he birthed on his stage

and to allow them a platform to become some of the artists that they have become. To know Richard Smallwood is to love him. He was that kind of guy. And you're talking about laughter and historian, and knowing gospel history and working with the likes of many historians who

came before myself or himself, such as Thomas Dorsey, Mahalia Jackson, Clara Ward. You go on and on about some of our ancestors whom he was able to either play with, meet, and be amongst.

He is legendary, and he will be greatly missed from this day for since we are coming up on New Year's Eve. Take me back to what it was like to be at his home on New Year's. I mean, we ate until we couldn't eat no more. You're talking about a spread of food and fellowship playing old music.

And just going, he had a record of artists, all these records, all I mean, that go all the back to the 50s, the 60s. We would go through those. Some of those records I didn't even know existed. And Richard had them and we would go through them and he would tell us stories about Clara Ward and

her mother and Mahalia Jackson and so many of the greats, the caravans, Albertina Walker, James Cleveland. He knew them all. He walked with them all. He worked with them all. And as

you showed a clip earlier tonight of him with the legends that all of the legends were in the room and Richard was before them, leading them, and playing. He was one of the most incredible musicians. So while at his house, we just had a regular night of fellowship on this coming Thursday morning we would have been at Richard's house dining, talking, laughing, enjoying each other in fellowship. I'm going to miss going to his beautiful home. He had a dog that he had running around the house and this he loved this dog and gave her a musical name. She was just incredible. He was incredible and we're going to miss being at his house this year. When I got the news this morning,

I was on the plane headed to Seattle, Washington, and I got a call that our friend, our friend, our brother, our mentor, had gone on to be with the Lord. Take your rest, brother. Take your rest because you have done a great, great work in him. Well done. Thy good and faithful servant, well done. Carol Mallard is here with us tonight as well. I'd like to bring her into the conversation.

Carol, are you able to hear me? I can hear you now, yes. Yes, ma'am. Could you talk to us about how Richard Smallwood touched you? Oh, my story goes back to the mid-70s. But before I even get that far, you all know that you have to do the New Year's event. Anyway, somewhere you have. That's right.

And you know, that's right. You know, and it's just a divert a bit, you know, you celebrate regardless. And he's going to be right in the midst of all of it, you know, telling you how to make them blackout. he's right and all of that goes that goes with that but my story with richard goes back to the mid mid 70s i was a actress at the dc black repertory theater company and also one of the all right son time to put out this campfire dad we learned about this in school oh did you now okay what's first smoky bear said to first drown it with the bucket of water then stirred with the shovel Wow, you sound just like him.

Then he said, If it's still warm, then do it again. Where can I learn all this? It's all on smoky bear.com with other wildfire prevention tips Because only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, Your State Forrester, and the ad council.

The social media trend that's landing some Gen Zers in jail. The progressive media darling, whose public meltdown got her fired. I'm going to take Francesco off the network entirely. The massive TikTok boycott against Target, that makes no actual sense. I will continue getting stuff from Target, and I will continue to not pay for it.

And the MAGA influencers, whose trip to the White House ended in embarrassment. So refreshing to have the press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulate. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast,

hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you. you on a wild ride through the most delulu takes on the internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an independent perspective. Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad versus everyone podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards podcast of the year by voting at IHeart Podcast Awards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartpodcastawards.com.

Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. We were just getting our thing together. But Bernice Johnson Reagan and Rosie Lee Hooks were running a program at the Smithsonian Festival of American Folk Life. We had a program there for leading up to the bicentennial in 1976 called the African Diaspora. And I was asked to be a field researcher. Yes,

and Manacus, you know, and a singer and all that, but Bernice hired me to be a field researcher so I could look into the African American culture from so many different aspects, from food, to costumes, clothing, singing, gospel, African desks, making masks for different kinds of festivals. So I was sent out to Richard's Church to meet with him, to listen to the choir, to listen to the Richard Smallwood singers, and see whether or not they would be a good fit. See if they would be a good fit for the festival. And I said, indeed they are. hired them and they, I think they were there 75, the summer of 75, and they sang a few times in

1976 because at that time the festival went on for three months. But meeting Richard and I still hear them. I still feel what happened for me in that church and where spirit touched me and really lifted me up at that time. And although Sweet Honey in the Rock did not, did not, and still could, have a direct relationship with Richard and his music, we are all great fans. And, you know, Dr. Barnwell, Dr. Isla, Maria Barnwell,

I'm sure she worked with Richard at different points and was a great aficionado of his work and his style. What I love so much, because I'm a good. I was a classical violinist while I was in D.C. as well as doing the theater thing was how he incorporated so many amazing styles and chord structures and movement and heart tug and frequency and raising the level up and in energizing your spirit to give praise. To me, that's what all of his music and his sound and his love of God and love of humanity manifests through that music unabashedly, unapologetically. This is what I do. I studied at Howard.

I'm putting this out there. These are my singers. This is how I hear the good news through my music. And it was just an amazing, just an amazing relationship. I think from my heart to knowing I go back that far, whether I saw him at this gospel thing or this, you know, festival. or whatever, I always felt a heart connection with Richard and how he gave praise, how he encouraged us and showed us how we can get praise through this beautiful music that he offered and inspire you to be creative and to come up with your own way of expressing your love and

devotion for the divine. You know, it's all about feeling the spirit. Donnie, could you talk to us a little bit more. Let's bring him into the conversation. Donnie McClurkin is here. Donnie, hello. Hi, Carol. How are you feeling like you? Sorry. How, Donnie? No, it's what he said. That it's a family. Yeah, we're a family. But, you know, like everybody is really expressing, when you can travel to different countries, when you can travel to Japan and hear them singing Richard Smallwood in English. When you can travel to Paris, France,

and hear them singing, you're there for a conference and they're singing Richard Small. When you can travel to the different countries and hear the different versions of Richard's songs, that lets you know that it's not just an American platform. It's a global platform. And that was the key. He had music that stretched across the street

and across the waters. He was that kind of a maestro with people like Darren Atwater and Tony Walker and some of the greatest musicians. He was literally a one of a kind. I text Kirk Franklin today and Kirk just takes back, man, Donnie, he was one of one.

He's not even one of many. He's one of one. And that struck with me. Richard was one of one. And as Carl and everyone was saying, he could take music and make it so beautiful, classical, gospel. Then he'd throw a little Hawkins feel in it and got little Hawkins bounce going on with it. It was just really a work of art to see Richard's work, to know who he was.

I went to one of the get-togneemales with O'Garney Malcolm Williams and Richard was there. And we laughed and joked until about 1 o'clock in the morning. And I was new to this. And they made me feel so at home. They made me feel so a part of. And that was Richard. Like I said earlier, there was no, you can never put a finger on Richard. There was no scandal.

There was no beef. He was never saying anything wrong about anybody. He was the most loving, embracing guy. And that's, that's not pretentious. That's not something that we just say because he's passed away. That's just who he was and who he is. That memory and that kind of a life, that remains even after he's gone. And that's why we're on here tonight to honor and pay tribute to somebody who was literally one of one.

Pastor McClarkin, I heard you mentioned Kirk Franklin. If you can get him on the line, we would love to add them to the show. But we also tonight have Pam Morris, and so we want to bring her back on as well. I would like for you to tell me, Pam, just why Richard Smallwood's music will continue to live off. One reason why his music will continue is because it has no expiration date. Yes. That's it. You can hear his music.

My children can hear it. My grandchildren will be able and can hear it and their children can hear it because it has no expiration date. Yes. And so anyone can jump in on this question, but I want to know how he was able to raise the standard for gospel music and its excellence today. He was different. He was different. He was unique. He was, he's one of a kind as Rick.

as Ricky Dillard said, and Donnie, he was one of a kind. So you find, I believe, another Richard. Unique. That's how I feel. You know his music, you can, it's often imitated, but you can't duplicate Richard Smallwood. Amen. I would like to ask you guys your favorite Richard Smallwood song.

I'll go first. I would say might would be a center of my joy. Oh, okay. Total praise. Total praise. Total praise and trust me. Total praise. Total praise.

Total praise. Total praise. Total praise. Live. No. And I just want to add that graduation. When you express your. All the kinds of things.

Total praise is one of my most favorite. When you're doing it authentically and with. And it is just saying all the time. All the time you can go anywhere to a graduation, to a funeral, to a Sunday morning service. To a wedding. To a wedding.

To a wedding. He needs to resign time after time after time. And he makes it so that you have to sharpen yourself sometimes to do some of his music such as Anthem of Praise. I repeatedly listen to Anthem of Praise. over and over again trying to get the past. And he made you work. He made you sharpen yourself to be the best you can be,

do his kind of music, being a musician, a classical musician. I mean, all of that embodied. Incredible. A jeep. I want to pull Donny Pastor McClarkin back into the conversation. We want to know, ooh, there you are. We want to know what your favorite Richard Smallwood's song.

There's no such thing. There's no such thing. Because just when you think you have a favorite, then he comes up with something else. And that becomes your favorite. Because when I heard, trust me, that blew me away. Yes.

My choice blew me away. Total praise blew me away. You know, Calvary blew me. me away. Everything that he put out, every project he put out, he had a specific song that was just remarkable. I wish to God that I could identify one. But that, that's the thing. Like everybody was saying, everybody's repeating their songs. That's the kind of music that he had. It impacted us. So that literally, as you go down, when we first started, Ricky went down a whole list of Richard's songs. that's because those songs are just as impactful.

Each of them hold their own significance. So it's kind of hard to pick a favorite. Now, I would probably say, I love the Lord because Whitney sang it. But literally, it's hard to do. And now that he's left us and gone into heaven, his songs are really much more valuable and more important than ever before. because he's left as a legacy. You know, the song that comes to mind for me, another one,

is Angels watching over me. Oh, yes, Mara. Vanessa, oh, my God. Especially right now. Yes. Morrette and Vanessa sang that song. I know Michael McKay, the Michael McKay is still on the line,

and we would like to know your favorite Richard Smallwood song as well. Oh, boy. Not there right now, but that's okay. What I'd like to do right now is take a break. And could you guys stay with us for one short, quick little break? We would like to continue talking about Richard Smallwood and honoring his legacy. Stay with us.

You're watching Rolla Martin on Filtz. Are you ready for the holidays? This week on a balanced life with Dr. Jackie, we're talking about all things, anxiety, and the holidays. holidays, whether it's performance anxiety, presence versus presents, making certain that everybody in your space understands the boundaries and how to respect your home. This week, we're talking about those things that will allow you to have a peaceful holiday season. It really is not about perfection. It's really about, you know, the house feeling warm and cozy and peaceful.

You don't have to like everybody, but what you can do is be cordial in those environments. That's all this week on A Balance Life with Dr. Jackie here on Black Star Network. They said the quiet part out loud. Black votes are a threat. So they erased them. After the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Republican legislatures moved fast. New voter ID laws. Polling place shutdowns.

Purges of black voters from the rolls. Trump's Justice Department didn't stop it. They joined in. In 2018, his DOJ backed off. Ohio's voter purge system, a scheme that disproportionately erased black voters, their goal, erase black votes and political power. Yeah, that happened. These are the kinds of stories that we cover every day on Roland Martin unfiltered.

Subscribe on YouTube and download the Black Star Network app. Support fact-based independent journalism that centers African Americans and the issues that matter to our community. In this country right now, you have people get up in the morning. And the only thing they can think about is how many people they can hurt and they've got the power That's the time for mourning For better or worse, what makes America special It's that legal system that's supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority We are at a point of a moral emergency

We must raise a voice of outrage We must raise a voice of compassion And we must raise a voice of compassion and we must raise a voice of a voice of a unity. We are not in a crisis of party versus party. We are in a crisis of civilization, a human rights crisis, and a crisis of democracy itself. And guess what? You've been chosen to make sure that those that would destroy, those that would hate, don't have the final say, and they don't ultimately win. Yeah. Oh, we survived by. Yeah, it's why. We survived by. Yeah, and kids. Oh, he is. He is.

We are celebrating the life and legacy of gospel genius Richard Smallwood, who died today at the age of 77. We have the members of his gospel family with us tonight on Roland Martin Unfiltered. We Michael McKay, Ricky Dillard,

Pastor Donnie McLarkin, Byron Cage, Pam Morris, Peter Mallard. We want to bring them all back into the conversation. We also want to add in our panelists tonight, Dr. Mustafa, Pantago, will start with you. Do you have any questions for our guest today?

Well, you know, as I was blessed to be able to listen to you, share your memories of Richard, the word that came forward was sacred. Could you talk a little bit about the sacredness of what he shared with us while he was here? Donnie, could you take that question? Okay, well, the sacredness of what he shared with us while it was here was his musical genius.

Carol kept speaking about how it happened to the divine. Richard gave you a backdrop, he gave you a platform of music that was something that was out of the ordinary. It was not the norm. It wasn't something that was just a bunch of notes and keys put together. But it was something that was God breathe.

It was literally God breathe. The words of the songs. the way that the songs impacted people's lives from multicultu cultures. It wasn't just a black music form. It wasn't just a gospel music form. It was an eclectic way of music. It was something greater than we can ever really express. I was speaking with about two years ago.

I was speaking with Roberta Flack. She was in her, she was in a wheelchair. And she said, did you know my student Richard and I was sitting at the table with it at a Dionne Warwick concert. And I said, did I know your student, Richard? That's my brother. And she was like, well, you know I was his teacher. And it's something special about this. There's a connectivity that can be traced back. It is literally God-breathed. That's the best I can tell you. The sacredness is it was God breathe.

Candace Kelly is joining us tonight. Do you have a question for our guest? Yes. Well, this question is for Pastor McClurkin, but probably for anybody else, too, that does what Mr. Smallwood did, which was that he also taught people across the country how to go about being better in their musical journey.

I remember choir retreats and people, you know, being under his tutelage and people who directed choirs. I mean, that is huge in the black community. And I am wondering what was it that he did that was certainly very special that you saw him just in part to others because as you've talked about, he was very, very specific, meticulous and very, very intentional. But he certainly passed the baton. How did he do that when you saw him do his work and teach others?

Well, I'll pass that on to Ricky and be Michael. Because they can better articulate that. We do not have them right now, Pastor McClarkin. If you don't mind, keep blessing us, please. It's me, Carol, and damn. But literally, he was that concert master. He was the guy that could sit down. And although he was very, very extreme in his musicality,

he could simplify that thing so that anybody could reach it, so that everybody could do it. His teaching of how to vocalize, he wasn't just a musician. He was a vocal expert. And he could teach you how to breathe. He could teach you how to formulate a note. He could teach you in these workshops on how to and on how to present. That's the thing that made him unique. He wasn't just a musician. He wasn't just a songwriter. He was literally an artist in every form. And for you to be able to take soprano, alto, tenor, break it up into three-part, four-part, harmony, five-part, how many,

counterpoint, all the different things that go along with the classical training that he had and the jazz background that he had and the gospel background that he had and make it so simple that people around the world can sing it without messing it up. That was something that was, that's inexplicable because you can't find that everywhere.

You can't find that ability to be able to mold even subpar singers and make them sing your song the right way and impact Sunday morning services, concerts, television movies. Right. That's unique. Thank you. Let me say this. Can you bring me in? Yes, ma'am. Anybody could sing his song.

Am I right, Donnie? Anybody could sing his song. A children's choir. adult choir, those seniors, anybody can sing Richard Smallwood's music. Anybody. That's incredible. That's incredible to note. Yeah.

Anybody. And especially when you're sitting, like I said earlier, when you're sitting with all of us on this broadcast, everybody has their different story of Richard. impacted us in great ways and to hear Carolyn, Pam, and to hear B Michael, and to hear Ricky, and hear Byron, and to hear how this just a small little group can try to articulate something so global, it's amazing because it's not an easy task to define Richard. It's not an easy thing to be able encapsulize all that he's done and all that he meant to music, period, not to mention. mention gospel music. Listen, I could continue this conversation for another hour if I could.

As we begin to wrap up, I'd like to hear some final thoughts. And Ms. Pam, I'll start with you. What I am hoping is that when the celebration of life is announced that those that cannot be in person, they will enjoy it from around. the world because we will keep his music alive. I will do that on the radio. And I do want to say this, in Turney, Italy, it was a jazz artist. Babes, what are you doing?

What? I'm just mowing the lawn. No, it's blazing hot and dry out here. Don't you remember? Smokey Bear says, Avoid using power equipment when it's windy or dry. Where'd you learn this? Oh, it's on...

Smokeybear.com. With many other wildfire prevention. tips. Right. Thanks, honey, bear. Because remember, only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the ad council. The social media trend that's landing some Gen Z years in jail. The progressive media darling, whose public meltdown got her fired. I'm going to take Francesco off the network entirely. The massive TikTok boycott against Target that makes no actual sense. I will continue getting stuff from Target, and I will continue to not pay for it. And the MAGA,

influencers whose trip to the White House ended in embarrassment. So refreshing to have the press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulate. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast, hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you on a wild ride who the most delulu takes on the internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an independent, Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad versus Everyone podcast on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen.

Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. I cannot think of her name right now. She set as he did his music. She was coming after him and she was sitting there in tears. And she was going to be singing jazz. And she set through his whole concert. And the Italians that were there were filling things on their arms and they couldn't understand, and they were crying.

So my remembrance of him is to keep him alive with his music. Carol, I would say this, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Once the energy is put out there in the world, this positive, beautiful, dynamic, spiritual energy is put out there into the world. It's very hard to forget it. it or to leave it be. We must continue to raise his name. We must continue to raise his music. Choirs all over the world continue to sing it and always raise his name because they say you remember the person. The person is not really gone because their energy is still, you know, in us, in our

DNA and our hearing and our memory. Like I said, I still remember going to his church that Sunday, that's Sunday morning and what I felt like and I can refer back. back to it, my relationships and talking with him. I can hold that as a memory and I can share that as often as I possibly can. He's always with us, always with us. Always with it. Amen. Amen. Ayesha. Honored. Honored. Honored. Pastor Donnie McClurkin. A little bit after 12 midnight today. Richard went home. And a little bit after 12 midnight, Richard finalized his work on earth and caught all of the world unawares. But he went back to where he started and Jesus called him home.

But Jesus did so much through him while he was here and he loved Jesus so much that it's music that it has such weight and such power. power. And I'm trying my best to keep talking so I don't cry. But when you see someone who's dedicated their life's work to Jesus, and literally, without apology, represented the kingdom, it leaves you proud in a great way that you are able to know him. I'm honored that I knew Richard. I'm honored that I worked with Richard. I'm honored that he was my brother and not just someone in passing. I'm honored that I could be a part of a link to what he is and what he did. You know, and the whole lot of us in the gospel music community, Donald Lawrence and Jonathan McRennells, Kirk Franklin, Elanda Adams, C-C-C-Rine, all of us have that connectivity. Tramaine Hawkins,

every one of us. We have this great honor to know that we were associated with a genius, and a maestro by the name of Richard Smallwood. And although that he's transitioned, God knows that his music that was absolutely from God will remain here until the coming of Jesus Christ and we may be singing it in heaven just as well. So I honor the memory, the life,

the legacy of Richard Smaller. And I do want to say this. I want to thank Roland for allowing us to come on and to do this. Roland, thank you so much for giving us this platform to celebrate our brother to celebrate this great man. It takes a great heart for you to extend your platform and I will always be grateful to you for this. I'd like to talk to our panelists too for our final thoughts about Richard Smallwood.

Candace Kelly will begin with you. Well, I just want to say that you know the song, Total Praise, whenever I hear it. And as the panel has said, you can hear it at any type of event. It could be at a wedding. It could be at a funeral. It could be at a children's event. But it always makes me sit up a little straighter. Like when I hear Kendall's Messiah or lift every voice and sing.

Like I feel like I can't talk during it. And it was just so regal. It was just so regal. And as everybody has been saying, it took a special person to put together those chords and those words and lifting your eyes to the hills. I mean, this is really, really, really powerful. But like we've all been saying, his music is going to live on, not just here in America, but internationally. And that is the beauty of what music does. And that is really how important the music is to the history of our people and our journey

over here and our roots back from Africa and what we did with all of the instruments and all of the chords to make it something that you really are. Richard Smallwood was certainly the pioneer to make that happen. And that's what we're all so grateful to have. And I loved being just listening to this panel live to honor Richard Smallwood because you're not getting this on other channels. So thank you. Sure isn't.

But he should. He should be getting this on CNN and MSNBC and Fox TV. He should because he is international. Absolutely. And we need that music. We need that music now more than ever. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Just saying. Brothers gone. Dr. Santiago. You know, as a poet, I'm always, always thinking about spiritual integrity. And I remember as a young student being both at Union Temple and at Metropolitan and hearing, you know, the music and understanding with very,

with very, very a clear message around how it captured the memory of our people and how it helped to heal, especially in times of Trump, of trials and things that we go through and the oppression sometimes that happens inside of our communities and how we need to be able to figure out how we stay connected to some higher power than ourselves. So I'm very, very thankful to him for that spiritual integrity that I was able to experience any time. I only met him a couple of times, but I was in the, you know, in the pews enough to listen and learn. So I will always be thankful to that. Nobody asked me what my favorite song were.

Calvary, Calvary, Calvary, Calvary. That's good. Yes, sir. It's so incredibly important in this moment because, you know, for those of us who believe we understand the significance of that and where we are going and why we have a responsibility to do so much while we're here. You know, and Richard did that. And he did it with a love that invited others into it.

So I'm just thankful. to be able to be here in this moment, to listen to all of you, to learn, and to be able to experience the greatness, which was he, and as everyone has said, that we'll live on for generations to come. I want to thank you all for joining us and for honoring Richard Smallwood tonight, Pam Morris, Carol Mallard, Pastor Donnie McLarkin. We also want to thank V. Michael McKay, Richard Dillard, Byron K. for joining us tonight.

This has been a life-changing moment for me, and I believe for so many other people that are watching tonight, and so we just thank you for honoring Richard Smallwood. Thank you. We're going to take a break right now. We do have a few more stories for you coming up on Roland Martin on Filter on the Black Star Network. Are you ready for the holidays?

This week on a balanced life with Dr. Jackie, we're talking about all things, anxiety, and the holidays. whether it's performance anxiety, presence versus presence, making certain that everybody in your space understand the boundaries and how to respect your home. This week, we're talking about those things that will allow you to have a peaceful holiday season. It really is not about perfection.

It's really about, you know, the house feeling warm and cozy and peaceful. You don't have to like everybody, but what you can do is be cordial in those environments. That's all this week on A Balance Life. Dr. Jackie here on Blackstar Network. They said the quiet part out loud. Black votes are a threat. So they erased them.

After the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Republican legislatures moved fast. New voter ID laws, polling place shutdowns, purges of black voters from the rolls. Trump's Justice Department didn't stop it. They joined in. In 2018, his DOJ backed Ohio's voter purge system, a scheme that did.

disproportionately erased black voters, their goal, erase black votes, and political power. Yeah, that happened. These are the kinds of stories that we cover every day on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Subscribe on YouTube and download the Black Star Network app. Support fact-based independent journalism that centers African Americans and the issues that matter to our community. In this country right now, you have people get up in the morning, And the only thing they can think about is how many people they can hurt and they've got the power. That's the time for mourning.

For better or worse, what makes America special, it's that legal system that's supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. We are at a point of a moral emergency. We must raise a voice of outrage. We must raise a voice of compassion. And we must raise a voice of compassion. unity. We are not in a crisis of party versus party. We are in a crisis of civilization, a human rights crisis, and a crisis of democracy itself. And guess what? You've been chosen to make sure that those that would destroy, those that would hate, don't have the final say,

and they don't ultimately win. who broke racial barriers across stage, screen, and television for more than six decades, has died at the age of 94. After a short illness, shaped by black artistry, she was mentored by her cousin, Janet Collins, the first black ballerina to perform with the Metropolitan Opera. She later trained with Lester Horton in one of the nation's earliest multiracial dance companies at a time when segregation was still the law of the land. Her talent carried her across the world from Alvin Ili and Dan.

Dance Theater of Harlem to the American Ballet Theater in Bardway and Broadway. And even as she dazzled audiences, she faced racism head-on, including being barred from partnering with white dancers on the Ed Sullivan Show. Still, she never stopped moving. She continued dancing well into her late 80s, grace, resistance, and creativity in motion. And more sad news tonight, actor Isaiah Whitlock Jr., best known to many fans as corrupt State Senator Clay Davis on the wire has died at the age of 71 after a short illness in New York. That's according to his manager. Whitlock, a South Bend Indiana native, had a career spanning more than four decades.

On TV, he appeared in Veep, Your Honor, Atlanta and Multiple Law and Order series. It was also a regular collaborator with Spike Lee showing up in films like 25th hour. She Hate Me, Shirek, Black Plansman, and the Five Bloods. And of course, he made his mark with that unmistakable drawn-out catchphrase. Something fans famously stopped him on the street just to hear. Rolling said found with him in 2020 to talk about Spike Lee's The Five Floods. Rolla Martin unfiltered. Hey, thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm a huge fan.

Man, a huge fan of your work as well. First of all, obviously, an amazing movie. Any point that you tell Spike, what the hell you got us out here running around this damn jungle shooting guns? We're too old for this. Well, it ran through my mind a couple of times. It was so hot. It was over 100 degrees almost every day. And with the mosquitoes and flies and things like that, at my age, I was like, I don't know.

But we got through it and we had a great time. Well, one of the things I think is so amazing, and I've said this to Delroy, to Clark, to Norm and Spike as well. I mean, this movie really is about black brotherhood. Old older brothers who are unified by something. And speak to that, just just that brotherhood concept. Well, a lot of that came out with the DAP that was. very prevalent during the Vietnam War where the brothers were trying to connect and hold together. And as you saw in the film, I mean, we did different types of DAP that showed where we had served,

what parts of the country we had been in, but it was also a way just to connect. And Spike was very insistent that we got that across. But I have to say, though, that after running around in the jungle with those guys and spending the couple of weeks we had for military training and everything like that. We developed a brotherhood amongst ourselves that I feel you could start to feel the brotherhood and the love and that went into the film and we were able to get that point across. It's rare, though, to see that sort of connection, especially among older black men in movies. I really can't think the last time I really saw that.

I mean, heck, it may have been the Robin, Robin Harris character, Sweet Dick Willie, and other cats on the corner and do the right thing. I mean, you just don't see it. Yeah, and it was kind of nice to be able to show that, you know, you know, older black men getting together living. having a good time, still having dreams, still loving life and things of that nature. You never ever see anything like that. And I was glad to be a part of that, just to be able to show that.

And then when you look at everything today, a lot of the film and that Black Brotherhood and older men and things like that getting together, all of that has been kind of lost. and when we do the film, you know, it sort of smacks people in the face that, yeah, you know, they do matter. Well, well, they certainly do matter. And I think to tell the story from the perspective of these brothers, which you rarely see when it comes to Vietnam era films, and it's like so much for African Americans where all these stories have been told over the years, get ours fit, our particular perspective gets left out, or we're simply a bit player in somebody else's storyline. Right, right. And that's what I felt with all of the documentaries. The one thing I kept

seeing in a lot of the documentaries was when Sammy Davis Jr. went over to sort of calm things down. I think Nixon had sent him over. And to me, that was very telling just how, tone deaf. They were at that time about how disproportionate it was what was happening in the country at that time. So many African Americans on the front line fighting and dying at such a larger percentage than African Americans in the country. I think it was like maybe 11% at that time, and yet you had about 30% on the front

lines and dying. you just didn't. And then when you see these documentaries, none of that is talked about. You don't see any of that. So it was nice to be able to represent that and let people know that African Americans did serve in the Vietnam War.

And at the same time, I was very thankful. They just didn't get me. Did you reach out to other brothers who served to really, sort of get a understanding that did you reflect on classmates or family members as well who served? I had a lot of memories of the guys who did serve because at that time you saw a lot of guys coming back. They would leave one way and come back totally difference, totally disillusioned, and then having to deal with all the problems. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be.

So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's sounded outtogether.org.

Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. The social media trend that's landing some Gen Zers is in jail. The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired. I'm going to take Francesco off the network entirely. The massive TikTok boycott against Target that makes no actual sense. I will continue getting stuff from Target. And I will continue to not pay for it. And the MAGA influencers whose trip to the White House ended in embarrassment.

So refreshing to have the press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulate. You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things, happening online in media and in politics with the Brad versus Everyone podcast hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you on a wild ride who the most delulu takes on the internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an independent perspective. Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad versus Everyone podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide

who takes home the 26 IHeard Podcast Awards Podcast Awards, podcast of the year, by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeartPodcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award.

Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. It's in the country. But when we got over to Vietnam, there were some expats who we spoke with, guys who had gone over to the Vietnam War and State.

And that was very, it was very emotional for me to listen to their stories and what was going on and all. And so by the time we started shooting, I had a very, very good idea as to who these guys were. The, as I look at the different characters, Your characters seem to be the most level-headed didn't necessarily show lots of external drama and issues. It is as if you were able to get through that and not have a lot of that weighing down on you in terms of how the storylines set it up. Yeah, and it was interesting because when we started shooting, I mean, you know, you saw that with

Delroy's character, Clark's, norms. And then you had this, you sort of had this other brother who was just, you know, he still had his faculties intact. He didn't have all of these issues and things like that. So when we go back to Vietnam, you sort of see it right up front, especially once we go to the club and everything like that. That, you know, he's that guy who, you know,

I'm there to have a good time and, you know, do what we have had to do and everything like that. But in the beginning of the movie, I've already got a drink. I'm checking in at the counter, and I've got a drink already. And I was dancing with a drink and I didn't spill a drop, you know? So early on, early on, you got you knew exactly who this guy was. And he was supposed to be the youngest, had locked. his way into the military, and he was part of that group.

He was part of that brotherhood. And right off the top, you know, I exposed him as to who he was. Yeah, no, it was clear because I told when I asked Clark Peters, I said, I said something tells me that Isaiah was the constant comic relief on screen and off shooting his film. I didn't I didn't plan it that way but in looking back on it I sort of was you know it was kind of like when things started to get a little too heavy you know I had to come in and lay something down to kind of pull everybody back to back to reality you know and I always I thought that was good it sort of showed that you know one of the things Spike said right before we left for Thailand and Vietnam he says look I don't want four brothers who are the same. And I knew Delroy, I knew Clark.

I didn't really know Norm, but I did get to know him. But I remember thinking to myself, you cast this perfectly because we are all different. And that came out in those characters where you had four different guys. And one of the things that bothers me a little bit about film is that sometimes when you see African Americans,

you know, they're all the same. And it was nice to be able to show a little bit of diversity and character and who we were that we're not all the same. You know, some of us come from different parts of the country, Midwest, South, West Coast, East Coast. But it was nice to be able to represent that. And I thought that came out great in the film. Well, and when you talk about that comic relief, when you talk about, that comic relief, when you talk about, you know, those moments.

I mean, the reality in real life, we all need levity. Life, like, ain't that serious all day, every day. And it's great to have that person in your life who at any moment might crack a joke, might make light of something, might, might start just start cracking on you playing the dozens. I mean, levity is needed even in life. Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, is that that's where, I mean, you know, usually when you see films, you know, it gets serious and it stays serious. But as the audience watching it, as an African American American watching, I know that's not real.

I know somebody, excuse me, somebody is going to say something, even in a desperate time, somebody will say something that will almost make you laugh. And I had those little moments in there where no matter what the situation was, I could always find the opposite of that. And to me, that is what life is all about. Absolutely, absolutely. All right. So first of all, I didn't understand. Where in the world your signature line, chic?

Where did they come from? And of course, I'm watching the movie going, I know I'm going to hear it. Well, a couple of things. It's like your line, your line is that damn camera of Spike Lee's that, like, we all waiting for it. We know it's coming. You and everybody else, even Spike, about halfway through shooting, Spike said, you know, I haven't heard that. What's going on? I told him, I said, because Spike had told me, he says, look, find a place where you want to put it.

You, you decide what you want to do. And I appreciate the fact that he trusts me enough to bring it in. He never told me exactly where he just trusted that I would find a spot for it. And I'm sort of like, well, you know, I don't want to just throw it out there, you know. I want to find that one spot where. the audience is going to agree with me and say, you know, you got a point there. He's not going to give you a million dollars. She it.

You know, that kind of a thing. So about halfway through Spike said, you know, I haven't heard. I said, no, I got a spot for it. I got a spot for it. And that's when I did it. But it was later in the movie. But that all came from the 25th hour, the first movie that I did with Spike. That's when I first did that.

And then six things later. Was it spontaneous then? Was it spontaneous then or was it in the script? No, no, no. It was, when I had gone to audition for the 25th hour, I was chatting with Spike. And we were talking about baseball. We were talking about the St. Louis Cardinals

when they had Kurt Flood and Bob Gibson and all these guys, Lou Brock. and then we started working a little bit on the script of the 25th hour, and I did that. And Spike said, do that again. I did it again. He says, you know, you need to keep that. He said, it's the way you do it.

And so he cast me in that film, and I found a spot to do it in the movie. And then I started doing it in the wire, and the rest is history. So, so, so, I got to live with it now. So, Spike Lee was the one who said, right that, take it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, you need to keep that. And he had me do it twice in the 25th hour. And then once they started writing it in for the wire,

that's when it really blew up. But up until that point, I was just doing it in Spike Lee films. And then they started writing it in, and the wire, I started doing it in the wire, which again, I thought it worked very well. And the rest is history. But I'm glad people enjoy it enough that, you know, it makes people smile. And I figure, you know, if I can make people smile great. Well, the thing about it is, is that, look, there are a lot of actors.

There are a lot of people out there who have done films and television. But there are very few who sort of have this. signature thing. This is that that speaks to him. There are some folks out there. I remember when I interviewed Richard Roundtree and he told me that for the longest, he resented

the shaft character because people would come up to him. And his dad pulled aside. He says, son, it's a whole bunch of people who nobody remembers. Yep. He said, you might want, you might want to embrace that thing. And he said that

moment from his, what his dad told him, completely change his perspective on that, on that moment. So now, now, now, do you have people who walk up to you in real life and just want you to say it? And then you're like, okay, I'm about to trust this person. Now he's wanting me to do it. No, I have a lot of people. Sometimes it's hard for me to get up and down the street without people stopping me and wanting me to do that. I've had people want me to call their wives and do it on both the phone

and things like that. And that gets a bit much. Yeah. You know, if I'm not in a hurry going somewhere. What's that? Yeah, now go ahead. Go ahead. If I'm not in a hurry going somewhere, you know, I usually accommodate them.

Because I realized early on I was going to have to live with that. That was going to have to, that was going to be a part of me no matter what. And again, I also, I saw the joy that people would get out of it. I mean, I've had some people, there's been a couple of people. I thought they were going to pass out. I would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, take it easy, take it easy, you know? I know it's me. It's just a word, but take it easy, you know.

But, you know, I embraced it early on because I knew if I didn't embrace it, I mean, I'd be ready to, you know, slit my wrist or something like that, because people do it all the time. Well, I got to agree with you on the phone thing. I'll say that's probably, look, I'll take a million selfies. I'll speak to people. I do all sort of stuff. The one thing that does sort of drive me crazy is when somebody will thrust a phone.

Hey, can you speak to my mama? Can you speak to my friend? Can you speak to my wife? And now what I've done is I'll actually take somebody's phone and I'll shoot a video and say, hey, send this to him. That way, you know, I can knock it out, you know, in 10 seconds. But when it's a group, they're like, hold on, it's my homeboy. And I was like, what up?

Yeah. So, yeah, that does get a little different. And also in this day of coronavirus, you know, a lot of that's going to have to change. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, trust me. If I start snatching the folks' phones, because see, the other thing for me, Isaiah, folk take too long with these phones.

I know. You see the photo shoot. I'm not staying at for a minute. So, man, I'll be snatched your phone, click, hand it right back. So I'm going to be gloved up once we get back and get back out. And you guys hear, set your phone and I'm going to hold the phone up. Yeah, really, really.

because I'm like, you know, I'm in that, I'm in that, you know, group where, you know, I can catch it, so I don't want to catch any of that. Well, you black. We all in that group. Yeah, that's your underlying condition, you know. Yeah, the underlying condition is black. That's what it is. Yeah. One of the things that, you know, going back to the film here. and at first it was a little bit jarring, but I picked up on it. When Spike had y'all playing yourselves when you were younger,

did you immediately understand that or say, wait a man, what a younger us? No, it was very quick and we never, ever really talked about it again. Spike said, no, you're going to play yourselves. And that was it. That was it. Nobody ever gave it much thought. I really didn't think too much about it until the film came out and people started talking about it.

It was never a big issue. It was like, you know, Spike said we weren't doing it. So, so be it. And, you know, I mean, it's, you know, it is, as you said, can be kind of jarring. but in some ways I kind of liked the fact that it was sort of jarring because you saw throughout the whole film, you never could get too comfortable or too far ahead because Spike always had something that was going to pull you back in and say, wait a minute, you know, we're still here trying to tell a story. We're still here trying to make you realize what was happening back then.

and so just when you got a little too comfortable, boom, something would happen. And I sort of felt if we had tried to make ourselves look younger or bring in some other actors, I think that would have just imploded on us. And it was like you had to take that dream with us back into time and see us as ourselves. and not get too distracted by makeup or trying to look younger.

Let's keep our foot on the gas. Let's keep telling that story. And let's try to get our point across. The D.R.R. Lindo character, obviously, suffering from significant PTSD trauma. I see ghosts, y'all. I see. And, man. I can tell you those scenes where a Vietnamese person would just set him off.

I'm watching it. And I mean, he, that thing was real. Mm-hmm. He did an amazing job. I mean, you felt that PTSD, that trauma just watching it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what's interesting, what's interesting was playing it.

I had to play it. Like, what's your problem, man? You know, like, you know, what's the, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's a deal here, you know, you know, you know, settle down, calm down, you know, get over it, you know, which is sort of what we did back then, you know, you didn't have all these terms and things like that. You were just, you know, you just a brother with some problems, you know, and, uh, you got to deal with that. You got to deal with that stuff. You can't be sitting around here, you know, because the man, big deal. So the man's got a chicken, you know, and you don't want to be around a chicken, or he's got, he's got this, or he's got that. And the way Delroy played, it was just brilliant. I mean, but it's, as an actor playing off of that, you know, you never can let that bring you out of who you are and bring you down.

You've got to stay on top of it and sort of deal with it in a very realistic way. but he was outstanding, for lack of a better word. I haven't asked the other fellow castmates this, but from your perspective, what was the one unique or great thing about each of them that you got to see? So let's start first with Clark Peters. When you say unique thing,

as you mean as far as character or person? No, no, no. Anything in terms of how they played the role or just them in real life. They just one thing that really stood out or struck you about him, the person, the character he played, or how he actually went about his work, anything like that. Yeah, I would say with Clark Clark, it was very, he was in a very sort of. kind of trance, you know. Uh, uh, uh, he, um, uh, he was very smooth about everything, you know, and, uh, it was impressive,

you know, because I, you know, it's, I thought, you know, it with all this heat and everything over here and all these flies and mosquitoes and things like that, uh, that's going to be hard to maintain. But I was, I was, I was impressed the way, you know, uh, Clark was sort of going to the zen, you know, and. you know, he would start to, you know, Spike would say cut and Clark would start to meditate and I was in front of the fans saying, man, I got to cool down, you know.

I can't be out here in this damn heat. No. Well, I think, well, maybe he was doing this. Maybe he was thinking cool thoughts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had to be thinking something because I was like, I couldn't get to the fan fast enough. I knew if I sat in front of the fan, the mosquitoes wouldn't come because the wind was too heavy.

So, and, and, you know, then Spike would say, okay, let's go. And it's like, okay, yeah, let's go. Because we were always ready to go because we had to just get the hell out of there, especially before the sun got overhead. And Norm was, Norm, Norm was cool. He was, he was cool. He had to, you know, get the stuff down with the pigeon toad and everything. like that so so he had his thing that he was working working with and and delroy uh i mean that PTSD i don't want to say it it it transferred off screen but he was in the moment and stayed in the

moment also you know uh they were they were very very they were very all of the actors were just very disciplined and that was it's hard to say but i I think when you have that kind of discipline, and I think Spike really knew that if I get, I know these guys, I've worked with these guys, I know how disciplined they are. So when we get over there, no matter what, they're going to pretty much do what they have to do.

I'm not going to have to sit around and worry about them. And that's pretty much what you got. And even with my character, is, right. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead, finish. Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, even with my character. It was, there was a discipline to not get bogged down

because all of that other stuff can kind of rub off on you, whereas I've got to make sure that I don't get bogged down except for when I have to be here and there. How did you get the role? Because it seems there Spike just pre-selected every one of you. Yeah, he pretty much did. Spike knew exactly who he wanted. He knew exactly what you were going to do.

And he called me up. He asked me what I was doing. I told him I was doing, I was across the street doing my laundry. Just get ready to put my clothes in the guy. I always wish I could say I'm doing something else. you know, like, oh, you know, I got this, you know, this big thing going on here. I'm there, you know, but, you know, no, I'm at the laundry man. I'm just getting ready to put my clothes and dry.

I'm trying to get some quarters to get some, I've got to get some quarters to get some bounce. But what, what's up, you know? So sad. So, so sad. I mean, you know, you can take the boy out of Indiana, but you can't take the Indiana out of the boy. And, uh, all right. But, uh, that's, uh, you know, he called me up. He started telling me about this, uh, this, uh, movie that he was making. I told him, you know, I said, look, you know, I'm leaving for Japan. But, uh, I was just going to Japan just to visit some friends. And I said, I'll read it

on the plane and, and get back to you. Well, I did read on the plane. And, and I think I called from the airport and said, you know, this is fantastic. And, uh, and that's, uh, he said, you know, I want you to play Melvin. And I said, okay, you know, I'm, I'm ready to go. I'll be ready. Um, that, that's, I was doing laundry. That, okay, I was not expecting that one. Uh, I know, I know, but it's, it's typical, you know, uh, I always say, you know,

why do, why do my, why does my shit always got to be raggedy, you know, broad job. But I got to do one thing. Clark said, I need to ask you, he said, I need you to ask Isaiah about that damn bicycle. That goes back to me doing my laundry.

When we were, when we were in Baltimore, Everybody had a car driving around Baltimore to the set. I had a bicycle. And it always seemed whenever I was on the bicycle, I would run into Clark on that. I would run into Clark on the bicycle. Clark would be in a car.

I would be on the bicycle. One time I fell on the bicycle, I heard a horn honking and it was Clark. So fast forward about, this had to be maybe like six, seven months later. I was in New York City and I heard the car honk and it was Clark

and I was on a bicycle and so he's been giving you shit about that every that's what he means so he's always teasing me you know he thought I was going to have a bicycle in the jungle and I said no I left the bicycle

so wait a minute so y'all bumped into each other in New York and you happen to be on a bicycle and he's in a car yes Yes, yeah, yeah. He's in a car.

And he just laughed because he always gave me shit about being on that bicycle down in Baltimore, especially when I fell on it. And he was, it seemed like he was right there. And he said, why don't you just get a car? I said, no, no, man, I got this bicycle. I got this bicycle. And then about, you know, six months to a year later, I'm in New York City. I'm on a bicycle.

I hadn't even used a bicycle since then. But I got on that bicycle, and there's Clark. That is absolutely That is absolutely hilarious. That is that is That's funny. That's why I say it goes back to be doing my laundry, you know. I'm on a bicycle.

Spike calls me. I'm in the laundromat doing my laundry trying to get some quarters to buy some bounds so I can put some fabrics off there in. And it's like, you know, old school all the way, man. Last question for you, man. I was this is a dramatic role, but, but is there, is there this wild outlandish comedy you would love to do? I mean, I could just, I could just, you know, I see a lot of these comedies out here. And like I said, I see some of the role.

A lot of times you play in a police officer, stuff on those lines. I just think, again, and hell, it might be male on the bicycle. I don't know. But, but, or I own a laundromat. Right. Anything like that in your future?

You know, I never know. I never know. One of the things I really just enjoy doing, I enjoy doing all of these different characters. And I got to say, I never try to make them, you know,

funny or anything like that. But I think the human, sometimes comes out of the reality of a situation or right or a moment because I always you know used to think of myself as being a very serious guy but I think the more serious you get the funnier you get so yeah I just enjoy playing you know a variety of different characters and that's one of the things I really love about it. All right well I look I can I can only envision yeah all of a sudden yeah a movie where you the owner of a laundromat and dealing with a bad as kids who coming up in there and all kind of stuff.

To me, it would, it would be 24-7 comedy. Yeah. Well, you know, I own a laundromat and I have a bicycle that I deliver other people's laundry in New York City. We might be on. I'm going to call something. I'm going to call some of my friends who are comedy directors and run that by him. Tim Story. Reggie Hartley.

Let's holler at you. There you go. I will do that. Azea we're like, man. It's great. It's a great to chat with you again. Defy Bloods was an absolutely fabulous film. I hope people check it out.

And it really was, man, intense and great to see the four of you do your thing on screen. Thank you. Yeah. It was, you know, I think the film was just fantastic. And with all the hard work and everything that we put in, it really paid off. All right. Man, you take care.

And stay the hell out of those laundromats. All righty, man. You take care. Babes, what are you doing? What? I'm just mowing the lawn. No, it's blazing hot and dry out here. Don't you remember?

Smokey Bear says, Avoid using power equipment when it's windy or dry. Where'd you learn this? Oh, it's on... Smokeybear.com with many other wildfire prevention tips. Right. Thanks, honey, bear. Because remember, only you can prevent...

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