#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Black female DAs speak on Lamar Johnson case; Bomani Jones slams NFL owners; Pelosi on impeachment

Episode Date: January 16, 2020

1.9.20 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Black female DAs speak on Lamar Johnson case; Bomani Jones slams NFL owners; Pelosi on impeachment Gentrifiers strike again in DC as the city plans to remove homeless tents; Baltimore man is shot and killed in broad daylight; African Americans continue to be excluded from the democratic process. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I mean, he's not only my parent, like, he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit AdoptUSKids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. Hey folks, Roland Martin here. You're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered, broadcasting live from Birmingham, Alabama. I am here for our National Association of Black Journalists board meeting.

Our convention will be here in Birmingham in 2023, and so we're certainly glad to be here. Today is, of course, January 9th, 2020, coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Two black prosecutors stand with a sister in St. Louis when it comes to the case of Lamar Johnson, a man, Missouri man, who that prosecutor says is not guilty. He is, of course, in prison there.

Marilyn Mosby, as well as Kim Fox, one from Baltimore, one from Chicago, wrote a joint op-ed calling for this case to be overturned. And they're standing with the sister, Kim Gartner, out of St. Louis. We'll talk with Marilyn Mosby live right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Also on today's show, folks,

we've been talking about the NFL and, of course, their issues with black coaches. But Bonnie Jones, man, he just laid it all out on ESPN. I'm going to show you what he had to say. And I can't wait to hear what my panel has to say again about this topic about white owners and their unwillingness to hire black coaches. Also on today's show, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she makes it perfectly clear,

she'll do what she wants when she wants when it comes to articles of impeachment and sending them over to the United States Senate. Republicans are getting antsy. They may even try to move forward and declare Donald Trump innocent without even waiting for the articles of impeachment. Also on today's show in our segment, Still Seeking Freedom, 1619 to 2019, we talk about African Americans and democracy. Can't wait to have that conversation. And NAACP Image Awards made their announcement today.

Of all the folks who are nominated for the Image Awards, we'll share those details with you. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. He's got it. Whatever the mess, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's Roland. Best believe he's knowing.

Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks, he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's Uncle Roro, y'all. It's rolling, Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best You know he's Roland Martin now

Martin All right, folks, glad to have you here on Roller Martin Unfiltered. We're broadcasting live from Birmingham, Alabama, where, of course, I'm here for the National Association of Black Journalists for our, of course, annual board meeting that's taking place here. So glad to be here seeing all the folks who support our show from Birmingham. And so it's always glad to be back here. All right, let's jump right into today's show, folks.

We've covered the story of Lamar Johnson, a black man, 1994, who was convicted of murder. The prosecutors now agree that he had nothing to do with it. Now, Kim Gartner, she is the DA there in St. Louis County. Remember, there are two DAs, St. Louis County, and there's, of course, the St. Louis, the city. She has been pushing the effort, but the problem is the Missouri Attorney General, he basically says she doesn't have any jurisdiction. This case has not gone to the state Supreme Court. Well, now, two sisters who are also DAs are standing with that sister

in St. Louis, Kim Fox, the prosecutor in Cook County in Chicago, and Marilyn Mosby. They're in Baltimore. Both of them wrote a joint op-ed on this particular case, and Marilyn Mosby joins us right now on Roller Martin Unfiltered. Glad to have you back. Good to be here. How are you, Roland?

Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Glad to have you. First and foremost, why was it important for you and Kim Foxx to stand with Kim Gardner in this case dealing with Lamar Johnson? So, I mean, I think it's incredibly important when we think about what's happening with Lamar Johnson, which could be a Lamar Johnson in any city,

in any place across the country right now, an innocent man who has, in essence, been a casualty to this tough-on-crime approach. And when prosecution was at the expense of winning, you know, it was looking at convictions, and there was prosecutorial misconduct. And in essence, it's important to stand with Kim because she understands and recognizes that the mission of a prosecutor goes beyond just conviction. And our pursuit of justice requires that we go above and beyond to ensure that we not only advocate for those that we believe victims of crime and those that we believe have committed a crime, but our duty gives us a responsibility, an ethical obligation to ensure that we exonerate those that are wrongly convicted and incarcerated. And in this case, her investigation has unveiled that this individual was convicted through false testimony of an eyewitness who then later recants and then

was secretly paid by the prosecutor's office. So as a prosecutor with the mission to obtain justice and to right the wrongs of the past, it makes sense. And we should be standing with her as well as everybody else in this country. Well, it's interesting here. You have, of course, a Republican attorney general who disagrees with that. And I think he's basically questioning whether Kim Gardner even has jurisdiction in a case that's in her jurisdiction. Well, I mean, what we know, and this is unfortunate, I mean, we have the lower court as well as the attorney general that's attempting to limit her discretion, but this is not new. And, you know, this op-ed in the USA Today, which was co-written by me, myself, and Kim Foxx, it wasn't just us. I also have to say the contributors were also Rachel Rollins,

Aramis Ayala, Stephanie Morales, Diana Beckton, Sherry Boston, Aisha Brave Boy, and Satana Dewberry, and Laniece Washington. These are all Black women prosecutors from across the country. And in essence, what we're saying is that our discretion, you know, it's today it's her. But we have to closely monitor the outcome because it affects each and every one of us. When we look at challenging the status quo, when we know about the keepers of the status quo, it's that they don't like that. And the keepers of the status quo are responsible for mass incarceration, over criminalizationcriminalization of black and brown people, tough sentences, no redemption and second chances. And they would love to maintain their power and not give it up. And so the resistance that we see here with Kim Gardner is something that I've seen

as state's attorney for Baltimore City when we go and attempt to right the wrongs of the past. It's something that each and every one of us as prosecutors across this country are seeing is this resistance to our discretion and our power to right the wrongs of the past and to ensure that we are rectifying mass incarceration. Well, and again, when you talk about folks who want to intrude on your jurisdiction and your authority, you mentioned what is happening there in Baltimore, where Governor Larry Hogan has ordered the Democrat attorney general to take over cases without even consulting you. Here you have this taking place, but you have a president and his attorney general who basically have put a bullseye on the back of progressive prosecutors like yourself by saying that somehow

the work that y'all are doing is going to increase crime all across the country. That's also what's at play here, and that is challenging the authority of duly elected black and other progressive district attorneys. No, I mean, I think you're absolutely right. It's part of a larger sort of federal agenda. I just recently posted my own op-ed in the Washington Post talking about this approach. And it's not just, again, Kim Gardner or Kim Foxx or Amna Sayala. It's something that we're seeing among all of us as progressive prosecutors. You know, we are being told that we're responsible for the increase in crime as a result of our progressive policies.

And what we know is that these are the keepers of the status quo. And that's what we have to fight against. And it's not just a matter of the attorney general taking my powers and, in essence, acting as a local prosecutor. But when you look at some of the resistance that you've seen and that I've experienced here in Baltimore City, I have to say I had the only conviction integrity unit in the entire state of Maryland out of 24 jurisdictions, which is dedicated to the actual claims of innocence for those that are wrongly convicted and incarcerated. When it comes to ensuring that just recently we had one of the largest police corruption scandals in the history of the country. And one of the things that we fought for, I got resistance from the lower court that did not want to vacate convictions of those

corrupt police officers. We then fought for this, the state law to change. And once we went to Annapolis to fight for it, I had my colleagues, the Maryland State Attorneys Association, that came vehemently against our position and testified in opposition to it. So when you think about it from the perspective of where this federal administration is, you kind of understand that this is part of a larger sort of agenda. And this is why it's so incredibly important for us to stand for Kim and in this case, because it could clearly be any one of us. And it is every one of us as we move forward and trying to do our jobs. And what also jumps out is that justice is supposed to be about justice. And when you have a prosecutor who has said without a doubt that this man did not commit the crime to watch people essentially say, forget all of that. We're going to keep this man in jail.

It shows you how tough this system is that even when, even when you have someone elected da who reexamines cases, there is still fighting that because these prosecutors who are largely white men in America want to, they operate as if they have done no wrong and they should not be questioned from anyone. No, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, the individuals that are making decisions about folks every single day and the majority and disproportionately what we know are poor black and brown people in the criminal justice system that disproportionately within it. Those individuals making those day to day sort of decisions. Ninety five percent of those individuals are white. Seventy nine percent are white men.

And as women of color, we represent one percent of all elected prosecutors in the country. And so I think it's important for us, you know, from some of the attacks that we receive and not just the resistance from the legal entities, but from the personal and vitriolic sort of attacks from the FOP. You know, Kim Fox was considered and told, they protested outside of her house and called for her, I mean, outside of her office and called for her resignation. You know, just recently the FOP called me an overzealous prosecutor. And as long as I'm in office, they're going to continue to keep their dues high, right? It's this type of vitriol or to say, and Rachel Rollins was overzealous and they then reported her to the Bar Association and trying to take away her license. These types of

attacks are dangerous because at the end of the day, we have been elected to do a job and our pursuit of justice goes beyond mere conviction. And that's what we're going to continue to do. But we have to stand together in order to do it because it gets rather lonely. I'll tell you that. And when you talk about that, again, the fact that all of these sisters came together to do this and the reality is just like you see the attacks on the squad in Congress, you've got people who are scared to death of black women. And the crazy thing is that voters, they're the ones who have put y'all in office. They're the ones who say, we agree with their positions. And to see the individuals, the organizations that have been responsible for mass incarceration,

been responsible for wrongful imprisonment, been responsible for people being on death row for 10 or 20 and 30 years and later found innocent. These are the people who do not want changes to this system and they will fight tooth and nail to the death to ensure it doesn't change and and that's what we're seeing and and that's what we're pushing back against you know I thought it was incredibly important and you'll see every single one of us have an experience that is very similar and so that's why we try to maintain and stay in contact with one another and encourage each other. And as I stated, if Kim Gardner and they're successful in ensuring that she's not able as a prosecutor to right the wrongs, which she's ethically obligated to do of the past,

she's not she's not able to right those wrongs, that has an impact and sets a precedent for every single one of us. And so it's incredibly important, not only for us to write an op-ed, but for us to stand for her in whatever way that we can. And that's what we intend to do. You know, Black and brown communities want and deserve long overdue changes in the justice system.

And, you know, we're not going to allow a few moments of resistance to deter us from that change. All right. Marilyn Mosby, Maryland and state's attorney there in Baltimore. We really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. All right. Want to bring my panel now, of course, Dr. Greg Carr, chair, Department of Afro-American Studies at Howard University. Erica Savage Wilson, she is host of Savage Politics podcast. and also Pam Keith, an attorney and activist out of Florida. Pam, I want to start with you. You heard Marilyn Mosby there mention Aramis Ayala when she announced that she was not going to prosecute any death penalty cases.

Then Governor Rick Scott went after her, criticized her vehemently, along with various police unions. We see what's happening in Pennsylvania, where Larry Krasner has been targeted by the Pennsylvania State Attorney General. You see what's happening, again, Larry Hogan partnering with a Democratic Attorney General and trying to usurp the authority of Marilyn Mosby. What is happening in St. Louis with Kim Gardner, by this Republican Missouri Attorney General, same thing. What you have are largely white Republican men who do not want to see changes made to this system, and they are doing their best to harass black female prosecutors who want

to right the wrongs of justice. Yeah, Roland, I mean, I think let's get down to the bottom line, which was that modern-day policing is an outcropping of what was essentially a force that chased down escaped slaves way back in the day. Obviously, it's not the same thing, but it grew out of that tradition. And so it's always had as part of its DNA, the policing and the controlling of black men as a part of its mission. That is just a historical artifact. Now, I'm not saying that all police officers are racist or

anything like that. But what I am saying is that there has always been in our jurisprudence a tolerance for injustices visited on black men on the basis of suspicion. You know, that somehow a miscarriage of justice that involves a black man is really not that big of a deal, which is what Black Lives Matter was meant to address. But if you think back to it, even something like Stop and Frisk was predicated on the notion that a young brother must be up to something, and violating his constitutional

rights of free movement and incarcerating him, putting him in the criminal justice system on the mere suspicion that he might have been up to something was okay to protect the rest of us from the threat of the young black man and that is an outcropping and that is an outgrowth of that uh policing tradition from once it very much began way way back in the day and so there are a lot of people who think that there's no great injustice in putting to death a man who is innocent because the system worked like it was supposed to in convicting him, even if it got it completely wrong. And they're more interested in protecting the system than actually getting a just outcome. Greg, we have a, I mean, look, when Anthony Scalia was on the Supreme Court,

he literally wrote that if all the appeals were exhausted and things were followed and a person really is found, really is innocent, and they're presenting evidence later, tough. That literally is the mentality of these white prosecutors who are targeting these systems. Absolutely, Roland, and not just the white ones. If you look at Clarence Thomas' judicial opinions,

and there's been a recent book, The Enigma of Clarence Thomas, that talks about his stance on this. The punitive nature of this system that isn't broken, that can't be reformed, that's working just fine. I want to echo everything Pam said. It's an extension of this idea of isn't broken, that can't be reformed, that's working just fine. I wanna echo everything Pam said. It's an extension of this idea of controlling black bodies, women and men, but we know it falls disproportionately

on black men, in part because it is created by white men who have never seen anything other than white maleness as the center of identity. That's seeing white maleness first, then white women, then everybody else. But when you look at it, they will invest in controlling this system. As Janet Jackson said 20-some years ago,

this is a story about control. And individuals, it's individuals versus institutions. So what do we learn from this? What is the lesson we learned from your interview with State's Attorney Mosby and all those sisters, as you said, from Illinois to Missouri and everywhere? What we learned is that whether it's local control, federal control, law control, we have to exercise every weapon in our toolbox.

These are elected positions. Meaning what? Once these systems have gotten in power, they are exercising their power. So what do they do? They remove it to the next layer. Well, let's see if we can get the state to intervene or the federal judiciary to intervene.

So then we press forward because anytime you have the police versus the DA, well, that wipes out all the propaganda you see on popular entertainment. As Gil Scott-Harris said, any channel that I stop on got a different kind of cop on. I thought law and order was the police and the DA are together.

No, not when you've taken the district's attorneys and the state's attorneys and had them empower themselves to now say, we got to stop this. So finally, I would say this. You know, we've been talking about this a long time on this show and beyond. The judiciary is the last bastion of their control. If we go out here and vote these sisters and brothers in

and they move, ultimately, they're going to lose the numbers game, so they're going to try to control this through having respect for the quote-unquote rule of law. But what we are seeing now is that there is no rule of law in a white, racist, hyper-capitalist society. There is only control,

and you cannot defeat institutions with an individual here and an individual there. You've got to begin to make end rolls the way we see Marilyn Mosby and her sisters doing it, by bonding together and say, we're speaking with one voice and then we got to get their back at the ballot box and in the streets if necessary. Erica, when you look at Doug Evans, of course, the D.A. courts for striking black folks from the jury in a capital murder case there. I mean, that's what we're dealing with. We can go all across this country where white prosecutors, largely white men, essentially were framing African-Americans, were using their power to withhold evidence.

I mean, we can go down the line. This is a significant problem. And what you see happening again in St. Louis is where this sister comes in, has this unit to examine cases like this to ensure that the right person is in jail. And you have folks like the Republican Attorney General fighting her, telling how dare you?

You have no jurisdiction here. Absolutely, Roland. And to put a name to what Pamela and Dr. Carr so eloquently described is modern day slave patrols. And what the onus is on is for us. So we've been talking about these are duly elected women. So a couple of things. These women are really taking care of one another. And then the question has to become, well, why are they having to do that work? They are duly

elected officers of the court. Where are the people that are going to make sure, protect, and ensure that all of these different instances of them being harassed and having these complaints that are issued by the FOP, who is a heavily funded police group. Where are the people that are standing in lockstep in arms with these women to ensure that they are protected? So that's one thing we've got to ensure that these women are protected at all costs, because as Marilyn Mosby said, they're 1% of the population, but they stick out like a sore thumb. And I do believe that one of the reasons that they are being attacked so heavily is that there is really thought around that there's not going to be really

any protections around them. So really encourage for all of us as a body to be more educated as it has been done through this show, but to really understand what the role of the city state's attorneys, state's attorneys are and prosecutors so that when we hear and see that word, that that's not automatically something that's associated with something bad because they are doing the work. And then also we are continuing to see cases like this, like in the case of Jimmy Gardner, who was just released after 26 years in 2017, false testimony by a forensic scientist.

So we have got to engage, as you continually do on this show, to not only have this relationship with the courts that's primarily negative and may be brushed to the side, but to understand that, as Dr. Carr said, the judiciary is the last bastion. This is the last place that they are able, meaning white men, largely white Republican men, to establish some level of control over black and brown bodies. And we are seeing it play out at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

We're seeing it with Mitch McConnell. They have no shame. They're doing it at the impeachment level. They're doing whatever in the hell they want to do. So it is up to us as a body to engage very intentionally, very purposely to, number one, be more aware of what's happening around these black women prosecutors, DAs. And then number two, to also be more involved and aware of what's happening with the courts to ensure that when the time comes, that if any of us have to be facing any of these courts by way of discrimination or whatever it is, that we do have a mirror of people that do hold the same values that we do because of, as of right now, we don't. The reason I'm connecting this, Greg, to what's happening on the federal level, and people keep hearing me talk about this and folks like, why

are you focusing on this? In fact, it was just announced today there's actually going to be a presidential forum finally in New Hampshire that is specifically about the courts. What people have to understand is that if you're an African-American, if you look at a lot of these cases, a lot of these cases where black men have been freed, they have been freed by federal judges, Not state judges, federal judges. And so to have Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell pack the federal bench with as many young right-wing ideologues, and I'm telling you, all you black men out there, okay, the 15%, the 13% who voted for Trump in 2016,

and you black men supporting him now, I don't give a damn about your tax cut. I don't give a damn when it comes to, oh, how it impacts you. These federal judges are going to be ruling for the next 30 to 50 years. And we had better understand that when you're trying to appeal a case, because trust me, after the Missouri Supreme Court, depending upon how they rule, a federal judge may weigh in. see more black men remaining in prison because too many of us did not vote

in the presidential election according to the federal bench. That's exactly right, Roland. And, you know, watching mass news entertainment media is just about worthless on this topic as it is with so many others. But in this space, we have to now

dispose with these niceties, with these aspirational descriptions of the system we live in. Well, you know, justice, no, no, let's set all that aside. This is about real politics. This is about power. So people say, well, voting doesn't do any good. Yeah, vote. And get in the

streets. Quit thinking of these things like two separate things that are oppositional. We have to use every tool in our toolbox. McConnell, an open racist and owned by the corporate interests, is very clear. And I respect him for that. Tip of the cap to you, Mitch, because you understand that all this stuff is just stuff on paper, man. This is a naked power display. And as long as we do not understand that, we are going to be subject to a system, as you said, in the next two generations,

they are stacking this court so that whatever we do in the street, it can ultimately be reversed with their last court of last appeal. Finally, I'll say this. You know, as we look at this presidential election... Hey, hey, Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, not just the street.

You're seeing this. Yeah. So here you have us put in black progressive DAs. Their whole deal is, no, we're going to take them out. Then if you talk about, okay, so let's elect more black members of Congress, more black people in the legislature, city councils. Same thing. Judges weigh in.

Franklin Graham literally said this. Yes. And they are articulating, they are articulating that the whole goal is that even when they're not around in 40 years, they'll still control the courts. Well, this is a beautiful thing, and I'll be very quick with this. This is where they've overplayed their hand.

You see, respect for the federal judiciary or federal apparatus only goes so far as the people who are willing to pretend as if that is the court of last appeal. The court of last appeal is the people. So as you said, in Alabama, there's a Republican Senate candidate that just released a commercial that combines, he says, if you don't vote for me, you're going to turn over to Ilhan Omar, the squad, Kaepernick, and AOC. I didn't know Kaepernick was a member of the federal legislature. But what they're fighting for is a way of life. But they've overplayed their hand at this point,

which is why I think the New Hampshire example you give is very important. You know, when you see people now endorsing Bernie Sanders, and let's set aside all the other candidates on the Democratic side, what part of that is you've got an energy, particularly among younger people in this country, dream defenders and others, that are saying, we're going to stop talking about reforming this system. This system is working the way it was intended. We've got to break it. And the day when these federal judges

realize that people are going to start ignoring their rulings is a day that we don't need to look forward to understand what's going to happen. We can look backward to the 1850s and understand, or go to the 1960s when dr. King was talking about nullification and interposition and understand that that doesn't just work one way it can work a lot of different ways you think getting the court is going to solve your problem that might finally precipitate the crisis in this country that it has been avoiding since the beginning of this country which is what it's either going to be a different society for all of us or you ain't gonna have no united states mark

my words on that one brother all right folks let's talk about our second story and that is republicans uh they want to move forward to try to dismiss the impeachment charges against donald trump uh they have introduced a bill to actually ignore, not even wait for Speaker Nancy Pelosi to send over the articles of impeachment. Well, she went before the press today and she said, I'll do what the hell I want when I want. Right. Now, in terms of impeachment, you will keep asking me the same question. I keep giving you the same answer. As I said right from the start, we need to see the arena in which we are sending our managers. Is that too much to ask? Where another some of them have suggested they might want to dismiss. Dismiss equals cover up. They don't want documents,

the documentation. They don't want witnesses. They may want a dismissal, which is proof that they cannot, cannot clear the president of the wrongdoing that he has put forth. No, I'm not holding him indefinitely. I'll send him over when I'm ready. Pam, the problem here is you got these weak-ass Senate Democrats. I know. Who are demanding that Nancy Pelosi send them over. We just witnessed Mitch McConnell come out and say, I've got the votes. All it takes, all Democrats need are three Republican senators to insist on witnesses in this trial. Of course, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, he was hoping Lisa Murkowski

of Alaska, he was hoping Susan Collins of Maine and Mitt Romney of Utah would be those three senators. Nope, they're standing firm with Mitch McConnell. But you got the city Democrats who don't know jack about how to shut the hell up and stay unified and stand behind the strategy of Speaker Nancy Pelosi. You know, I want to make a couple points here, Roland, that I think are really important. First of all, Nancy's absolutely right. They want to quickly exonerate Donald Trump with no evidence, no witnesses, because they believe that this shouldn't have happened in the first place. But the problem is they're not just exonerating him to check a box. This is about reconciling actions to the American people. And Nancy understands that. And what's happening

concomitantly at the same time that the Republicans are trying to pretend like there's nothing here is that we're getting this drip, drip, drip of information that is getting into the public sphere. Just a couple of days ago, there were news stories that Lev Parnas, who was one of the Russians that was kicking around with Rudy Giuliani, has given the information in his iPhone to Congress. Now, let me tell you something. Lev Parnas and Mr. Fruman, who were tweedly-dee and tweedly-stupid with Rudy Giuliani, probably has a whole lot of communications on his phones, and I would assume not just to Rudy Giuliani,

because apparently Devin Nunes was also talking to Lev Parnas and there may have been a lot of other people talking to Lev Parnas including people from the Russian side of this equation. So you know the hope of the GOP is that they can clear and exonerate Donald Trump before all of this other information comes out. So there's this tension in the timing. And Nancy is just slow walking it because she knows that over these next couple of weeks, more and more of this information is going to get out into the public sphere. So that even if the GOP does exonerate him in their little show, dog and pony show, the American people will still know that Donald Trump is as guilty today as he

was when we started this. And I want you to understand that not one micron of information that has come out since the whistleblower complaint in September has made anything better for Donald Trump. And the reason there's never going to be any information that exonerates him is because he is absolutely 100% guilty of everything he was accused of. And you cannot go back in history and remake stuff, right? Whatever is going to come out is going to be bad for him. Everybody knows that, including every member of the Senate. But the last point I want to make here is that Dianne Feinstein and some of these Democratic senators and some of these Democrats are trying to exercise their own muscle over the wishes of Nancy Pelosi. They like the sense that they're senators and they're in a position to judge the president.

And they just want to get in there and do their senatorial thing. And they don't understand that they're always playing for a position of weakness in the Senate, no matter how important they seem to think they are. The only time that you are actually powerful is when you're in the majority. And that's the thing, Erica. The reality is this here. McConnell has the votes. And so if you're Senate Democrats, stop trying to sit here and say, oh, let's get it over with.

No. Pelosi knows exactly what she is doing. It is driving Trump crazy as long as he cannot go out and say, see, I was acquitted. Absolutely. He doesn't have a paper that he can wave in front of the American people's faces. And the other thing which is so sickening to me is that Senate Democrats not understanding why every day, anytime a microphone is stuck in their face, anytime that they're provided an interview and they're asked these ridiculous questions about perhaps why they're not cooperating or why they're not pushing forward,

pushing Speaker Pelosi, rather, to move these proceedings forward, is to go back to the December 12th interview that Mitch McConnell gave on Hannity's show, where he said that he is in lockstep with the White House and their counsel and to the extent that they are going to coordinate to see this through. Why in the hell are they not hammering that point home every day so that as in repetition that it is repeated over and over again to the media um the media who has failed by and large the american people to say back listen let me explain to you what the senate majority leader is saying back to all of you all he doesn't give a damn about rule of law he's saying that this is going to go the way he sees fit.

And so that's something that should be repeated over and over again. I don't understand why they continue to fail, why they feel like they have to play ball. They just need to develop a spine and be tough. At the end of the day, it's called chess or you're playing checkers. And Senate Democrats, frankly,

don't have the intestinal fortitude or the cojones of Nancy Pelosi, Greg. No, I mean, but Ron, you know, it's interesting. There are many layers to this. When Bolton said that he'd be willing to testify before the Senate, don't think for a minute that there haven't been a number of conversations. There are a number of unknown, known unknowns.

There are things we know we don't know. We don't know, we know they're coordinating, but we don't know what's going on. You know, after they stole that election a couple of years ago in 16, now you've got all these interests that sometimes oppose each other. You've got the kind of Christian nationalists,

right, whether it be Pompeo and Mike Pence and them, who are looking in terms of foreign policy and thinking the war with Iran might lead to the attack on Israel, which then means we can one step closer to the rapture. You've got that interest with these Christian nationalists. Then you've got the corporate interests that are looking at foreign policy and saying, we don't need Donald Trump. So if Bolton says he's willing to testify, that could mean one of two things. Either one, Bolton and them talking, and he says, you know, you ain't got to worry about it.

We're not going to call you with McConnell. Or Bolton is saying, we don't need Trump anymore. Pence can run the country because he's with us on attacking in terms of foreign policy, and maybe they give Trump up. But these are interests that are at war with each other. McConnell says he has the votes because they understand at this juncture,

they don't need to sacrifice Trump. But if they do sacrifice Trump, they've got Pence waiting. So don't think, and let's just set aside Murkowski and Collins and all that old BS, you're thinking about elections. Finally, we'll say this. I agree with everything Pam said

and everything Erica said, and what you said. Pelosi has no interest in advancing this because she doesn't have to. And this, as Pam said, it could keep dripping out. Nothing is going to exonerate. She's got another potential impeachment charge in terms of obstruction of justice as this thing wins its way through the court

and Don McGahn, the White House counsel, may be compelled to testify. They can always have another article of impeachment. But let's pay very close attention to the end game. Whether it's domestic policy in terms of federal judiciary, foreign policy in terms of war policy or Iraq or extended presidential powers, nothing changes if Donald Trump is switched out as the president of the United States. Now, the question becomes, as we've heard, are you now going to now show how Pence was involved? How these other people were involved?

Because this doesn't cut the head off the snake getting rid of Donald Trump. And Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi are playing a political game, but never forget the underlying objectives. This doesn't stop the train that they're running in the Republican if Donald Trump is gone. Right.

But I think... Absolutely. One second. Sorry, I got to go to a break. We come back. We gotta do our 16-19, 2019 segment of Still Seeking Freedom. You It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there?

Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, and subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's youtube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. If you want to support Roland Martin Unfiltered, be sure to join our Bring the Funk fan club. Every dollar that you give to us supports our daily digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real.

As Roland Martin Unfiltered, support the Roland Martin Unfiltered daily digital show by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Our goal is to get 20,000 of our fans contributing 50 bucks each for the whole year. You can make this possible. RolandMartinUniltrate.com. Filtrate.com. All right, folks, America was so-called founded

on freedom and equality, yet it continues to systematically oppress people, especially folks of color. Well, a recent report by the Center for American Progress looks at systematic inequality and American democracy. Joining us right now to discuss this is one of the authors of the report, Danielle Solomon. OK, so it looks like we lost the guest there. Folks, let me know if we get her back. Again, this report talks about systemic inequality when it comes to American democracy.

And I'll start with you, Erica, on this. I mean, the thing that's interesting is that. I love these people who talk about freedom. I love these people who talk about the military. They talk about fighting for our rights. Yet, if America truly believed in equality, there would be no need for the 13th or the 14th or the 15th Amendment. There would be no need for Congress to have to try to fix the Voting Rights Act. There will be no need for the 1964 Civil Rights Act or 65 Voting Rights Act or 68 Fair Housing Act. And so part of the issue, and I think we have Danielle back, so folks, let me know if she's back. Part of the problem that we're dealing with in this country is that if America truly was about freedom and

democracy and fairness, there would not be a need to have laws to enforce what white folks are already getting. And see, that's the thing there so when we talk about again freedom it still boils down to freedom for white people not everybody else right all of those things that you just spelled out those are applicable for white people only. This report should be required reading. The way that it's spelled out post-reconstruction all the way down to our current time to the gutting of Section 5 of the BRA, that is something that all people need to be in touch with, especially when we think about all of these different movements, that it was not just the South, that you did have in the 2010, 11, 12, and 13 states like California, states like Illinois

and Michigan that immediately were writing to help ensure that the voting rights of folks of color were impeded. And so these are things that people largely need to know. Also in what you are talking about regarding that report, Roland, is that it also spells out there, people have to have an understanding why the civil rights movement that all of these movements that proceeded and continued on after that have continued to do just that, to move, because there are past and there are current attacks to ensure that the one thing that speaks volumes, that ensures that there's representation that looks like people of color, that looks like

black folks, that looks like Chinese and Latino, that looks like black folks, that looks like Chinese and Latino people are in place. And it's through your vote. And that is why, as you have continued to teach and talk about, and as we're continue to talk about and thread all of this together around voting, people have to understand that not voting is a vote. It is a vote for whatever white people want to continue to be in place for this country to be in place. So again, that report really is something that I would encourage everyone that is watching this broadcast and that's watching the rebroadcast that you click on the link to read that report, that you share it and spread it around because

it speaks to our now position and also talks about disinformation. And we know that that is going to, has ramped up and will continue to ramp up as we head into this 2020 general election. Greg, we talk about the whiteness and what I just continue to explain to people is that what we're dealing with is the you said it earlier when you talked about values, way of life. This is not Jim Crow era where they basically said you're protecting a white way of life. That's what's going on here. And so this is so this is desperation. This is, oh my goodness, 2043, 24 years from now, we will be 47% of the population and they will be 53% of the population.

This is this fear of, will they do to us what we did to them? So what we're going to do is we're going to enact laws. We're going to put up roadblocks and put up barriers to do whatever we can to slow down what is coming towards us like a freight train. That is what is driving public policy today. That's what is driving Donald Trump. That's what's driving his followers. That's what's driving today's Republican Party. That's what's driving the whole issue with the courts. It is the protection

of whiteness. Absolutely, Roland. And, you know, the first thing we have to do, and I agree with Erica, we need to read this report, we need to study and understand that there is no we. So when you read a report like this, and the reports that precede it and the ones that will come after,

you know, they look at these categories as if they are unified, cultural, conscious categories. When you say black, brown, women, but these are demographic categories in reports like this. They're not, they're collect, you see the collective impact of white supremacy. You see the collective impact of hyper capitalism, but the response to it has to be collective. So when you look at the fact that in this country, you have millions of people who don't vote, the strategy shouldn't be to try to appeal to the five white people and the three Negroes who went and voted against their interest in the last election. The strategy would be to go get all those other people that did not vote. That's why you see, again, the Sanders campaign and Warren and others were saying,

let's go get the people who have not voted to vote. But it isn't just voting. Let's go and raise our consciousness and organize around this question of changing the way the criminal system works, the incarceration system works. But that requires study and a collective consciousness. So when we read a report like this and see the impact, we can't then say, well, these people will now do such and such.

No, they won't. They haven't been educated to think that way. So they're bearing the brunt of this. Finally, this. When you're in control of a mechanism that began with an idea of exploiting other human beings and very quickly congealed around race as the factor you could use to exploit

the vast number of them that you built the wealth on, then you don't have to go and convince other people to keep participating in that system once you've invested them with a little bit of benefit. And that's what whiteness does. If you want white folks who are poor, who are out here suffering, don't have any health care,

are victims of these, to come on your side, you don't go out and try to argue with them over race because they're clinging to it as that little bit of benefit they got from these people who are really exploiting them you go out and organize everybody else and once they realize this train gonna run them over from the mass base at the demographic ship they'll come on board or they'll get run over but you got to stop thinking about this as a system where everybody is aware of what's going on.

That is simply not the case, which is why study is so important in this process. Right. You know, Pam, um, there's a story that came out today where, and this is the headline, uh, Mike Espy will be Mississippi's first black senator in 139 years, but Governor Bryant of Mississippi says it would begin a000 years of darkness.

Of course, Mike Espy is running against Cindy Hyde-Smith for the second time. But again, what this speaks to is the fear of what's happening. When Greg talks about going out and getting those voters, look, if you go back and check the numbers, Mike Espy lost to Cindy Hyde-Smith by about 68,000 votes. We had more black people who were eligible

and registered to vote than who didn't vote. More than that. Take those poor whites as well. I mean, we can go down the line here. And so what we're dealing with here, again, it is this fear. It's about control. It is.

And it's about whiteness. And so when you see the Republican Party, when you see what they're doing, doing everything to shave off votes here and there and here and there, it is because if they know, if there's low voter turnout, white people,

because they have larger numbers, they stand a better chance of winning, and that's why they are consistently trying to stop folks from voting because they understand what can happen when there's a high turnout. Agreed. And I will say this, Roland.

One of our great challenges, I'm a Democrat, you know, one of our great challenges as Democrats is this tension that we have in our party between those of us like me who are progressive and say, no, we need to engage the poor people and we need to engage the immigrants and we need to engage young people, the LGBT community. We need to engage those people who have been marginalized by society and give them something to be excited about. And those people say, no, no, no, no, that's too scary. We need to engage these centrists, these middle people that we can win over to us from the Republicans. They're sick of Trump. They don't like the chaos.

And they'll vote for a Democrat if we just give them the Democrat that they want. And the real challenge for Democrats is that on both wings, you get the same answer. If I don't get the candidate I want, I'm not going to vote. And that really is the greatest enemy to our progress and our freedom. The greatest enemy to our progress and our freedom fundamentally is selfishness. And the last time I was on your show, Roland, there was a young brother here who was the founder of Young Republicans of South Maryland or something. And that man literally sat here

and tried to argue with us, most of us, you know, that somehow the future belongs to this conservative, white supremacist ideology that's packing these courts and that is trying to maintain and institutionalize subordinate, superior relationships in the hands of the dominant culture. And that, he thinks that's grand. And the reason he thinks that's grand is because concomitant with that racial component is

a paternalistic misogynistic component and he felt his strength in the dominance of men over women and that's the part that was appealing to him now he may not admit that but that's really what's underpinning a lot of these sort of hardcore Republican black men is their sense that maleness is now being challenged on every front, just like whiteness is being challenged on every front. And what I feel optimistic about is the number of allies and warriors in the fight who aren't necessarily black or even female, but who come to the fight because they seek justice and they want the America that it really could be

with all of us getting the benefit of our gifts and talents. So, the way I see it, you know, there is this struggle, uh, but we as Democrats are now caught between this whole sea of people who are just gonna let Armageddon happen if they don't get what they want. And that's not only foolhardy. Here is... Here's the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

And I don't care whether you are a black Democrat, you're a white Democrat, I don't care whether you're a Latino Democrat, Asian Democrat, Native American Democrat, female Democrat, male Democrat, heterosexual Democrat, Native American Democrat, female Democrat, male Democrat, heterosexual Democrat, gay Democrat. It don't matter. Do you know what Republicans do?

They put all that bullshit aside, and they say, I'm voting Republican. Because you know what they understand? Power is power. What they understand is that when you in power, you're in control. The whole deal is, we'll figure all the other stuff out

later, but we want to be in power. Democrats are the ones who are stuck on stupid. Who are saying, oh yeah, if I don't get, you know, if I don't get, you know, if I don't get my person, you know, then I'm going to stay at home.

You got upwards of 30% of Bernie Sanders supporters who say, I mean, last election, I think it was like 25%. He didn't get the nomination, so he voted for Trump. Right. How in the hell... How in the hell can you actually say that you stand with Bernie on issues and you vote for a man who's 180 degrees

from where he stood for? Well, that's easy to explain, Roland. I mean, I don't say it's easy to explain. Go ahead. Hold on, hold on, hold on. That's one's easy to explain, Roland. I mean, I don't say it's easy to explain. Go ahead. Hold on. That's one. That's one. Two. I just told you

about the federal bench. Here's the reality. The person who sits in the White House appoints those judges. Ball don't lie. So you're telling me I would rather have

a Republican picking judges than a Democrat who I disagree with. That's called being a dumbass. And I'm telling you right now, all these Democrats out there,

y'all, January 9th, 2020, I'm sitting here in Birmingham, Alabama. Listen to me clearly. I don't care who wins the nomination on the Democratic side. I don't care

who wins it. Whoever wins it is much better than Donald Trump. All y'all black men who out there, you hated Hillary Clinton, and you're sitting here saying, no, no, no, listen to me clearly. Black men, black women, white folks, Latinos, no, no. Listen to me clearly. Black men, black women, white folks, Latinos, and

everybody else. You give Donald Trump four more years where he doesn't have to worry about re-election? If you thought the last three years was a shit show, oh, the next four years

is going to be absolutely nuts. Greg, go ahead. I was gonna say very quickly, Democrat and Republican are just letters. Yes, there are policy differences, but let's be clear, the Civil Rights Movement, where black folks were attacking the white primaries, wasn't because they loved the Democrats so much.

It's because they understood in elections, you have to be in one of these two parties to exercise any form of power. Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. The reason he's running in the Democratic apparatus is because you either have to have a D or an R by your name. The Democrats have become the party

that is closer to the idea of empowering people, which is why, as we heard Pam so eloquently describe the continuum in there, it's much more difficult to talk about these quote-unquote centrist Democrats and these progressive Democrats. But when you start talking about corporate power, see political power is a proxy for business and for economic power.

The Democrats and Republicans are largely similar. But when you start talking about cultural issues and identity issues, which is why we talk about this intersectionality, I mean it's artificial like every other social theory, race, sex, class, race, sex, class. But people would vote for an Obama and or Sanders and then turn around and vote for a Trump

because their critique is of this idea of systemic oppression. So they think Trump is going to shake things up. Trump's not going to shake things up. But again, they're voting their identity as their politics. They're not looking at how this system impacts them. So what we're faced with is a situation where if we do what Pam has said, we do what Erica works toward, grow the number of people in the political process, let's say you get another fall off of if Sanders isn't the nominee or Warren isn't the nominee.

If you've grown and brought enough people into the process, then whoever has the D by their name will win regardless of that. Now, Bernie's going to have to do a little bit better job of saying, look, I don't want you. And he's been saying it, but it still doesn't matter. As you say, if people are not going to vote, you've got to vote for whoever pulls the D. But let's not make any mistake and think that DNR is like watching a football game or a basketball game. Politics is a proxy for power, but behind politics is economics. So Sanders, not a Democrat, running in the Democratic line, Warren is a Democrat, Warren — this is a continuum.

The Republicans can galvanize because they are like the Democrats used to be before the Civil Rights Movement. Race becomes the identity proxy for everything else. We've got to be smart about this and get beyond using our identity as the proxy for why we're voting and look at our interest, our life chances, which transcends race, as we know. I'm telling you right now, for me, all this, I don't. Y'all can pick whatever issue y'all want to pick. Knock yourself out. Y'all can pick.

Look, I know today Congressman Anthony anthony brown endorsed pete buda judge uh today the dream defenders they enjoy they endorse bernie sanders uh and we can we can go all over here's what i know and this is what i know from somebody who's been a student of history who understands the importance of the courts i need of y'all to sit here listening to understand. When you talk about the advancement of African Americans, what we have been able to achieve, it has been because of the work that we put in the streets. It was because of protests.

It was because of agitation. It was because of agitation. It was because of making demands. But it also was because we had some smart black people who understood the power of the courts. Let me be real clear. And yet what people don't understand is there was a lot of friction between Thurgood Marshall and Dr. King. Thurgood Marshall will often say, Martin goes out there and talks, but he sticks us with illegal bills. You had massive egos running left and right.

But do understand, without action in the streets, without action in the suites, there is nothing happening in the courts. Everybody had a role to play. Everybody. Here's what we understand and why, for me, the only issue I'm voting on is the courts. Because I'm trying to get people, and I need y'all,

y'all keep saying, man, why you harping on this here? President Barack Obama was only going to be there eight years. Y'all can sit here and post memes, and y'all can post oh my God, president for life. Y'all can post all y'all

want about how we just love Michelle Obama, but this is an empirical fact. He was only going to be there eight years. Max, President George W. Bush served from 1988 to 1992. He served for one term. President George W. Bush is dead. The person who he appoints in the Supreme Court, Clarence Thomas, is still there. Yes, yes.

What I'm trying to get us to understand, Judge Damon Keefe, brilliant legal mind, brilliant legal mind, died last year at the age of 96. Think about that. That man spent more than half a century on the federal bench. Mitch McConnell has said, he articulated this on Sean Hannity's show.

He said, we are appointing young men and women to these positions. There is no issue, listen to me clearly, there is no issue, mining rights, environmental protections, national monuments, health care, criminal justice, housing. There is no issue that federal courts are not ruling on. And if the Republicans hold on to the White House and if they hold on to the United States Senate, all of y'all out there who are saying fight this and march against this and protest this,

you're going to get shut down by right-wing federal judges. So this election is coming down to two options. This election is coming down to either you're going to vote for Donald Trump or you're going to vote against Donald Trump. And so, I really, it doesn't matter to me who wins a nomination because what I'm trying to tell y'all is, these people

are evil and they must be stopped. Going to a break, when we come back, I gotta show some love to my man, Bomani Jones, ESPN. Yo, he laid down the wood on this issue of the NFL owners not hiring black coaches.

We've been talking about whiteness, talking about protecting the status quo. He said what needed to be said and said it's time for us to stop making white folks comfortable on such issues. I'm going to play it next, discuss it, and fight on topic with my panel right here

in Roland Martin Unfiltered. You want to check out Roland Martin Unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there?

Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's youtube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. All right, folks. Bomani Jones is one of the smartest brothers on ESPN. First of all, you get two economics degrees. Hell, you got to be pretty damn smart. All right, folks, Bomani Jones is one of the smartest brothers on ESPN.

First of all, you get two economics degrees. Hell, you got to be pretty damn smart. So they were discussing this whole issue of the Rooney Rule and these NFL owners who somehow just can't hire these black men who should be head coaches. And so, but Marnie was like, while we keep dancing around this issue, let's just go ahead and lay out exactly what the fundamental problem is. He was spitting nothing but fire. And look, ESPN might hit us with a copyright protection on YouTube. So they might actually, we might have to delete this clip, but at least in the live show, I'm going to play it for y'all if y'all missed it. Now, Black Twitter, we love talking about a whole bunch of other stuff, but everybody should watch what my man Bobani had to say about these white NFL owners.

Check this out. So, Bo, why do you think the NFL head coaching landscape looks the way it does? Racism? Like, this isn't some mystery. I think you got it there, too. Why do I think the way it does. Racism? Like, this isn't some mystery. I think you got it there, too. Why do I think the way it is? Why does anybody think that this is the way it is? Look, that 2003 with the Rooney rule when it was put in place,

people need to understand. Johnny Cochran was threatened to file a lawsuit against the NFL, and that got them shook. And then all of a sudden, somebody's like, hey, we got to come up with something. I would love to know what they had that they didn't want to turn up in discovery that made them say, okay, cool, we got to come up with something. I would love to know what they had that they didn't want to turn up in discovery that made them say, okay, cool.

We're going to go ahead and do this. But it's important to note that this was brought in as an imposition. At some point, in order for something to change, the guys that run the NFL have to care about what is going on. And the reason that they should care is not on some kumbaya level where they need to show the world that they care about diversity. Y'all aren't good at finding head coaches, right? Every time you think you found some magic solution to get a head coach,

we come to realize you guys are just out here guessing. If all you're doing is guessing, why don't you give yourself more chances to guess? Like, I don't even look at this from the standpoint of the NFL about what it is that they can do for black and Latino coaches. How about what you can do for yourself? You could be the ones to improve, but instead, you don't want to. So don't ask me why it looks that way. Ask them why it looks this way. People see diversity as an imposition, as you put it. They see it in conflict with their goals of

meritocracy, with self-interest, with profit motive. And the irony of all of this is that whether it's biology or whether it's the corporate setting, diversity tends to be an asset. It tends to be a weapon that you can harness for your own naked self-interest if, in fact, your self-interest is genuine. If you're trying to find the best person who is the best candidate at winning football games, if they were to consider that maybe they don't have the answer in their natural network, then maybe this rule would be helpful. Stop talking about the natural network. Everybody who talks about this, this isn't about the quote-unquote natural network. These dudes reach outside of the people whom they know all the time.

There is no reason that a guy like Joe Judge is in the natural network, but Eric Biennemi is not in the natural network. Every time they tell us that it's just a matter of trying to figure out the network, dudes then go get into the network. So case in point, people like to use that word pipeline. What exactly is a pipeline? Because one that looks like a pipeline is being the offensive coordinator of the Kansas City Chiefs. Doug Peterson did that job.

He got the Eagles gig, won a Super Bowl. Matt Nagy got that job. Not so great this year. Last year, they won the division. Eric Biennemi has that job right now, and he's probably going to have that job again next year. So anytime we start getting into this, the idea is just networks. It's just about, no, it's about not hiring people

who are not white. So I think when I say network, I should be clear. What I mean is to say that there are rooms inside of rooms when it comes to a network, right? There are the people that you associate with professionally. So yes, Eric Biennemi, Andy comes to a network, right? They're the people that you associate with professionally. So, yes, Eric Biennemi, Andy Reid's coaching tree, right? That's a white guy, right?

Matt Nagy, as you point out. All of that makes sense. But there's a room inside of that room, and that is the room where the jobs are. And so when I talk about network effects, it's not a value-neutral description. What I mean to say is people, for unconscious or conscious reasons, have an idea of what a coach looks like, what a hire looks like. And the reason why that person, Eric Bien-Ami, may not match up with that idea, I would ask for introspection, right? As opposed to just, oh, wait a minute, that's not what I was thinking.

I'm not asking for them to be introspective. I'm asking for them to stop. Even if you can't figure out why it is that you are that way, I'm not asking for them to be introspective. I'm asking for them to stop. Even if you can't figure out why it is that you are that way, you have demonstrated that this is the way that you are. Why don't you change something? Because they don't think they're going to go talk to these other guys and find anybody that they think is worth hiring. Like, I am at a point now in discussing this

where everything we do to try to soften this has to stop. So it's like, oh, it's an unconscious or a conscious bias. It don't matter which one it is, because we've been telling you for decade after decade that this is what you're doing, and none of them really want to make any measure of change in spite of being told over and over and over again, this is what we're doing.

We're not going to get to the bottom of solving this or any other issue that matters with race as long as we keep centering the feelings of white people when we talk about this. And if we keep talking about this in a way where we're just trying not to hurt people's feelings, then nothing is ever going to get done because the only way to fix this is to hurt people's feelings. So what we got to do, like as a media, for example, we got to start shaming these clowns, man, because whenever this comes up, somebody called me and they want to do an interview and they asked me, well, what do you think we can do to change it?

What the hell you mean we, right? What do you think we can do or what do you think is going to happen are these guys just going we just have to keep waiting on them why are we waiting we got power to push them except people don't like hurting white people's feelings and the problem with asking for black people to answer this question and specifically in this case players to answer this question because i've heard it theorized, right? Why is it that, for instance, the Kaepernick protest was such a dramatically national story? Well, it's because the players got involved, and therefore you got to enter celebrity and blah, blah, blah, blah.

But in this case, you're going to ask these guys to protest their potential bosses? Like, that's an unfair burden on that level, too. Especially when they're not, like, the coaching candidates. Pam Centering the feelings of white people. Yeah, you know, Roland, the only other topic I can talk about as much as politics is football. And I am a huge fan of the game. And I will tell you, I remember back when Warren Moon was like the first black quarterback that got any kind of traction. And the

theory was that black men were just not smart enough to be quarterbacks. Well, we've got a playoff weekend coming up and virtually all of the star quarterbacks are black men. Mahomes, Jackson, Watson. Like these guys are crushing it at the quarterback position. And what the NFL has

discovered is that when if you really want to win win then you put the best player in that position and and and we are slowly evolved that took a long time for that to evolve a long time but I do think that the end of I think you know Babani is 100 percent right we need to simply show and and demonstrate that if it's about winning football games, you put the best person to coach your players. And if 88% of your players are black, why on earth do you think the best person to motivate them to win is white?

I mean, I want to talk about Jason Garrett for a minute, who's no longer the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Jason Garrett could not lay claim to superlative talent in any aspect of NFL coaching. Not motivation, not X and O's, not recruiting, not anything. He was not a star play caller. He was mediocre at every aspect of NFL coaching. And Jerry Jones kept him in that incredibly powerful position partly because he could control Jason,

but also because his whiteness protected him from his mediocrity. But you get a Romeo Cornell or somebody like that, the first time they have a bad season, it's not quite happening. Even somebody like Mike Tomlin, who's had Super Bowl wins, is now on the hot seat. What I'm saying is very simply this. You have to be superlative to get a chance in the NFL. You have to be. You cannot be mediocre as a black quarterback. Thank God, Mahomes

and Watson and so on are hardly mediocre. But you really can't be weak in any area if you want to be a black coach in the NFL. And it's not like we don't have black coaches in the NFL. When it comes to recruiting, right, you're going to find a lot of black coaches in the NFL. And not only that, but you're going to find a whole lot more at the NCAA level.

They're the ones that go out into Alabama, Mississippi and find that talent. But then when it comes to actually putting that talent on the field and getting the best production out of that talent, they feel that only a white coach can do that. Well, that's ridiculous. And quite frankly, it's tinged a lot with that plantation mentality. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Erica, here's the deal here. Omani lays it out, and he's right.

Enough with discussing the Rooney Rule. Discuss clearly white NFL owners who do not want to elevate black men to become head coaches. Now, I had some idiot on YouTube who say, why are you discussing this? This has nothing to do with black life. Yes, it does. Because, so let me, let me, let me,

Erica, you don't comment, but let me unpack this for the idiots. And yes, I'm calling them idiots because you've got to be an idiot to not understand what is going on. Matt Rule just left Baylor and signed a seven-year, $60 million contract. With incentives, he will earn up to $70 million. If Matt Rule gets fired, he still gets the money. Okay? So that's Matt Rule. What you don't understand is that if you're the black head coach, you hire your staff, which means that you then are hiring the next group of people. Tony Dungy had black office of coordinators, black defensive coordinators,

Leslie Frazier, Jim Caldwell. What happened? Tony Dungy retires. Jim Caldwell becomes head coach of the Indianapolis coach. When he got fired from there, he later became head coach of the Detroit Lions. All right? Jim Caldwell should be getting a shot. So what then happens is that you now are able to hire not just coaches, but also who are grad assistants, who are interns, people who are able to come in the system.

You now, one person, are able to create an ecosystem. For the person who says, this is no big deal, let me use me as an example. I had Washington Watch on TV One for four years, Sunday morning show. I had News One Now for four years, a daily morning show on TV One. Then I have Roland Martin unfiltered

for the past 15 or so months. If you want to say, who are the African-Americans who have come through, who I put on, who you now see on a regular basis, Angela Rye, David Swertlich, used to see Paris Denard,

Michael Singleton, Wendy Osefo, Paul Butler. When you see Lauren Coates, when you also see Tiffany Cross, I can go on. First of all, Nia Malika Henderson, before you saw her hosting on CNN, she was working for Politico, and I was putting her on twice a month on Washington Watch before anybody else

was putting her on TV. Who was the first place April Ryan became a contributor before she got hired at CNN in the last couple of years? Ah, on my show, Washington Watch. And so here you have this whole diaspora of black media voices now proliferating on MSNBC. Oh, I'm sorry. I should leave out Fox News. When you turn on the Fox News and when you see Wendell Cepho, when you see Gianna Caldwell, who put those folks on? So one person has the ability to create this much broader space because you open the doors. What did James Brown say? Don't give me nothing, open the door,

and I'll get it myself. That's what happens when you're black and you're able to open the door, even to bring in others with you into this whole ecosystem. And so for the person who goes, oh, this doesn't impact black life, it does because this is what we see,

not just in the NFL, but in Fortune 500 companies. This is what we see in states, in local. This is what we see in all over the place. This is what we see in school systems. This is what we actually see on the collegiate level with universities and athletic directors. And now you're seeing college coaches making five and six $6 and $7 and $8 and $9 million a year. Oh, I'm sorry, that trickles down to the high schools,

where you have black coaches who are being vastly underpaid, but you have white coaches who are mediocre in the suburbs who are getting paid twice as much. Oh, guess what happens? Who do those white college coaches hire on their staff? Those white high school coaches. Oh, once they go to the college level, then how do they get hired on the professional level? Oh, because when a coach goes up. And so what you have is a whole system from the NFL down to the colleges, down to the high schools, where you have white men promoting their friends all the way up. And so then when you say,

how does it impact black life? Impact black life, because when you're the coach, the amount of money you make, how you're able to give back. And so let's just not fool ourselves, Erica. The reason Bomani says we must call these folks out and make them uncomfortable and shame them is because what the NFL owners are doing is exactly what has happened to black people for the last 400 years. And Roland, what you have just laid out for those who always ask about a black agenda, that is a part of a black agenda. So you have just heard it out of the mouth of Roland Martin. Listen, I've just reread The Fire Next Time by our late brother James Baldwin and so many parts that really struck me. But in the letter that he wrote to his nephew, he talked about that the danger in the minds of white Americans is the

loss of their identity. We've got to be very, very clear. And Bomani used and exercised his platform in the way that did not sugarcoat that to say that the continual centering of whiteness, and we've been talking about it throughout the show, even as we talk about different candidates that are running for the Democratic ticket. Listen, we've got to understand what is centered and what is most important in everything that we're talking about and everything that we're doing when we're talking about that ecosystem that you talked about to connect that back to the courts.

Listen, if there's all of these different groups, if you want your vote, your voice, if you want for your particular interest to be represented well, you've got to understand that branch of government, right? That judiciary, that is a part of that. That third, that powerful third is a part of that. So to be active, to have voice, to have part in that makes sense. And we do that by way of our vote. We do that by exercising our vote. We do that by understanding all of the people that are on the ticket. So for those individuals that don't understand how black economics, how all of these different things that we see on television impact

black life, this is how they impact black life. This clip, Bomani's voice, that will continue to reverberate in social, to make the rounds on social. And people will begin to take hold of that. I guarantee you those are conversations that people are having in beauty salons and barbershops. But someone said it out loud on a network like ESPN where Jemele Hill was sat down for saying the truth, right? No longer on that platform any longer. He said something. So he used his platform to speak truth to power, much in the way that you have done. And all of those people that you've launched for are doing the very same thing on different networks. So it all connects the economics of it, that placing people so that they're able to then have their voices elevated in different

spaces and then have all of these other different entities then attracted to them and then have them elevated at that place. It all makes sense. But it has to be that all of us as a collective have to let go of thinking that it is most important to be most concerned about a people who are a protected class. They're already protected. We are the ones, black and brown people, that have been fighting and will continue to fight

for our voices, for our humanity to be heard and to be respected on a daily basis. That's right. At the end of the day, Greg Carr, what we're looking at is what is happening here, what we know has happened. There are people who are saying, well, this has always happened.

But the point is, as Frederick Douglass said, he said power could see nothing without a demand. What Bomani is saying is if you don't call it out, what the hell are you doing? That's right. In fact, let me just continue in the vein. Pam has laid it out beautifully, and then Erica really tied it together

and put that word collective at the center of this. We have to understand institutions and collective activity is what enables individuals. Individuals can influence institutions sometimes, but we have to think from a collective space as what we've just heard Erica say. Let's think about this very specifically. Yes, we know Warren Moon, who had to leave Washington and go to the CFL and win great cups before the Houston Oilers would give him a chance,

is seen as the first successful black quarterback, but let's go back to four that preceded him. We talk about a Rooney rule. Let's look at the late 50s, early 60s, and look at Eldridge Dickey, the Lord's Prayer, out of Tennessee State University, HBCU, drafted into the then-renegade AFC, playing out there on the West Coast, Oakland Raiders. Let's look at James Shaq Harris, black institution, Grambling, being drafted, playing in the AFC.

There was a one time, the NFL was what we now call the NFC. Institutional challenge then drew on black quarterback talent. Let's come forward a generation. Out of Tennessee State comes a guy named Jefferson Street, Joe Gillum, who should have been the starting quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers, but affirmative action and whiteness put Terry Bradshaw over him. That's Rooney's franchise.

Rooney understood black talent because he's drafting it out of the HBCUs. Let's look at the next generation of grambling black quarterbacks, Doug Williams, who wins a Super Bowl out of black institutions. Eddie Robinson. Everybody you name coming out of spaces that you cultivated, including this one,

comes out of a collective enterprise that you fostered and comes out of a black institution that you control. When I hear Bomani Jones, my brother, our brother, I smile because I think about him. I think about his sister, Tayari, the writer. And I think Bomani Jones, my brother, our brother, I smile because I think about him, I think about his sister Tayari, the writer, and I think about their father, Matt Jones, one of the great HBCU master teachers

out of Atlanta University System, then Mississippi. So when I hear him, I see an individual, but I see an individual produced by collective institutions. So finally this, because I don't even know who's playing in the damn playoffs. I haven't watched a damn of anything. I'm glad to hear and read the newspapers and hear about these black quarterbacks, but I don't even know who's playing in the damn playoffs. I haven't watched a down of anything. I'm glad to hear and read the newspapers and hear

about these black quarterbacks, but I don't give a damn about that. Why? Because until we understand that consciousness precedes political action and that institutions are the ones and collectives are the ones that foster consciousness, it doesn't matter how many great individual labor we

have laboring, these white boys and Khan down there, whatever it was, the Jaguars, these white boys have decided they gonna run this till the wheels roll off. Until we turn off the television, until some of these black women and men start playing semi-professional athletics at the college level at HBCUs,

and until we understand that Jemele Hill has part of her consciousness because she came out of Detroit, which is one of the hotbeds of black institutional power, we have to understand that until we understand that Jemele Hill has part of her conscience because she came out of Detroit, which is one of the hotbeds of black institutional power, we have to understand that until we move as a collective, they're not going to do a damn thing because they don't have to do a damn thing. So y'all enjoy watching the playoffs this weekend

while white supremacy runs over you like a Mack truck because they're going to continue to do it until we stop them. And that means we, not individuals, but we. Teach Dr. Carl. And that's why, precisely, and that means we, not individuals, but we. Teach Dr. Carl. And that's why, precisely, and that's why for the people who were like, why follow Colin Kaepernick? Because, again, you can't show me anything in American history that black folks got that wasn't proceeding

by kicking somebody's ass to get it. Exactly. You can't. And for too many of us, need to understand that. But we're caught up in this other game of, no, we don't have to do those things. No, actually, we do. So, Bobani, great job.

That's why I want to show you some love there. Let me go give you some sad news, folks. Of course, the mother of Atiana Jefferson, remember the black woman shot and killed by a Fort Worth police officer while she was in her own home? Her mother has died. Yolanda Carr died in the same home where Artiana was killed. Artiana had serving as her mother's caregiver, who had been gravely ill. No details were released, but Yolanda Carr was 55 years old, and so our thoughts and prayers certainly go out to her family. Also today, folks, real quick here.

In Los Angeles, the NAACP Image Awards were announced. Netflix leads with 30 nominations in the television categories. Universal Pictures leads with 15 nominations in the film categories. Here's some of the nominees to watch in the Entertainer of the Year category. Angela Bassett, Billy Porter, Lizzo, Regina King, and Tyler

Perry. Outstanding Motion Picture. Dolomite Is My Name, Harriet, Just category, Angela Bassett, Billy Porter, Lizzo, Regina King, and Tyler Perry. Outstanding Motion Picture, Dolomite Is My Name, Harriet, Just Mercy, Queen and Slim, and Us. Outstanding Actor in a Motion Picture, Chadwick Boseman for 21 Bridges, Danielle Kaluuya for Queen and Slim, Eddie Murphy for Dolomite Is My Name, Michael B. Jordan for Just Mercy,

and Winston Duke for Us. Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture, Alfre Woodard for Clemencystanding Actress in a Motion Picture, Alfre Woodard for Clemency, Cynthia Erivo for Harriet, Jodi Turner-Smith for Queen and Slim, Lupito Nyong'o for Us, and Naomi Harris for Black and Blue.

Outstanding Television Movie, Limited Series or Dramatic Special, American Son, Being Mary Jane, Native Son, True Detective, and When They See Us. Outstanding News Information Series or Special, Push Out, Surviving they see us. Outstanding news information series or special, Push Out, Surviving R. Kelly, The Breakfast Club, The Story of God, and Unsung. Outstanding talk series, Red Table Talk,

The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, The Real, The Shop Uninterrupted, and Tamron Hall. Outstanding host in a talk or news information series or special, individual or ensemble, Angela Rye, Jada Series or Special, Individual or Ensemble, Angela Rye, Jada Pinkett Smith, Lester Holt, Trevor Noah, and the Ladies of the View. And so, of course, the Image Awards airing on BET next month in February.

Folks, wanna thank our panel there. Let me thank Pam, Greg, as well as Erica. All right, folks, we've got to go. Please, we want you to support Roller Martin Unfiltered. We are all about speaking truth to power, as Erica. All right, folks, we've got to go. Please, we want you to support Roller Martin Unfiltered. We are all about speaking truth to power, and that's why we are here, covering the issues other folks don't want to cover.

And if they do, but certainly not in the way that we do, that's why we exist. We need your support to make it happen as well. We certainly have sponsors and partners, but your dollars also make this show possible.

Please support us. If you're watching on YouTube, more than 2, 2000 of you watching right now, you can certainly give directly right there on YouTube. Those dollars come directly to us, but you can also of course, go to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. You can give via cash app, PayPal, or Square. Again, we've got some phenomenal things coming in 2020. We want to be on the trail in cities where you live, covering these races, bringing to you what these candidates are saying. But that requires resources. Bottom line is, Fox News, they earned $1.32 billion last year.

CNN, $770 million. MSNBC, about $750 million. The bottom line is, that's what happens when that system is there. We are here trying to create our own. So a lot of y'all talk about, we got to create our own, create our own sports leagues, create our own companies.

Well, that's what we're doing here. Black owned independence. We need your support to make it happen. So please go to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. All right, folks, I've got to go here in Birmingham.

I'll see you guys tomorrow right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Holla! A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways from tech billionaires to the bond market to yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chaston. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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