#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Black man killed by Mpls cops; Woman weaponizes NYPD against Black man; Trump attacks mail-in-voting

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

5.26.20 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Black man killed by Minneapolis cops; Woman tries to weaponize the NYPD against Black man over a dog leash dispute; Trump rails against mail-in-voting Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered #RolandMartinUnfiltered Partner: Ceek Be the first to own the world's first 4D, 360 Audio Headphones and mobile VR Headset. Check it out on www.ceek.com and use the promo code RMVIP2020 - The Roland S. Martin YouTube channel is a news reporting site covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami 1 tbs. salami Today is Tuesday, May 26, 2020. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered,

four Minneapolis cops fired for their role in the death of a black man who was murdered on the streets of Minneapolis. We'll show you the video. We'll talk about what the mayor is saying, but activists still want those officers charged with murder. We'll also give you the phone number of the district attorney there so you can call in.

White woman in New York fired from her job after she goes off on a black man in Central Park who was trying to simply tell her, put your dog on the damn leash. See what happens when crazy as white people act a fool? Yeah, we'll show you the video and show you what our bosses have now said. And also, Donald Trump, Twitter gets fact-checked by Twitter for the first time for lying about mail-in voting. Yeah. I wonder what he's scared of in November. Could it be losing?

Plus, I'll talk with an author who says in his new book, that the deliberate devaluation of black people and their communities has had a very real, far-reaching, and negative economic and social effect on us. Y'all, it's time to bring the funk on Roller Mark Unfiltered. Let's go. I believe he's knowing, putting it down from sports to news to politics, with entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling, it's on for a royal, it's rolling Martin, rolling with rolling now.

He's funky, he's fresh, he's real, the best you know, he's rolling Martin. Folks, dramatic action taken in Minneapolis where four police officers who were involved in the death of a black man on Monday right now have been fired. That decision came down less than two hours ago, announced by the mayor of Minneapolis. It is after it has been tremendous amount of pressure being placed on that city as a result of what happened when this video, we are going to show you the video, folks. This is the video. We don't want to show you, but we're going to show you the video of George Floyd, a native of Houston, a 1993 graduate of the same high school I finished from,

Jack Yates High School in Houston. Y'all, this is what took place on Monday that has caused a national uproar. He's a tough guy. He's not even resisting arrest, bro. His whole nose is... Why you just sitting there? He ain't doing nothing. I put him in the car. How long y'all gotta hold him down? This is why we don't do drugs, kids. It ain't about drugs, bro. Y'all don't gotta put y'all in his neck, bro. Right. He is human, bro.

His nose is complete. You can put him in the car. We tried that for ten minutes. That's some bum-ass shit, bro. That's some bum-ass shit, bro. Y'all know that. You don't gotta sit there with. We tried that for 10 minutes. That's some bum ass shit, bro. That's some bum ass shit, bro. Y'all know that. You don't got to sit there with your knee on his neck, bro. Bro, he ain't crying, bro.

I've been watching it the whole time. You just got back out here, bro. He doesn't have a bro. He's not fucking moving. No, did they fucking kill him, bro? Bro, bro. What is you, 1087, bro? You're a bum, bro.

Or 987, bro. You're a bum. First thing you want to grab is your mace because you scared, bro. Scared of fucking minorities, you fucking bum, bro. Get the fuck off me. What are you doing? Bro, three minutes, bro. He's not fucking moving.

I don't even feel awkward. Bro, he's three minutes, bro. He's not fucking moving. Bro, he's not even fucking moving. Get off of his fucking neck, bro. Get off of his neck. Bro, look at that, bro. Are you serious? Bro, are you serious? And you're going to keep your thing on his neck?

Yeah, bitch? Bro, I barely touch me like that, dude. I swear I was talking the fuck out of both of y'all. I didn't want to talk to him. Bro, he's just gonna let him keep his hand on his neck, bro? You're a bitch, bro. Ty, you gonna let him keep that like that? You gonna let him kill that man in front of you, bro? Huh?

Like what? Bro, he's not even fucking moving right now, bro. He's not even fucking moving. This is what it is. We got to deal with this shit. Folks, you saw that video. George Floyd is saying, I cannot breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. That officer, hands in his pocket, knee is on his neck. Beginning of the video, you hear him. You go in a minute and a half, you don't hear him talking anymore because George Floyd was murdered. He died as a result of that officer's knee on his neck. Four officers were on the scene. Not a single one of those officers stepped in to say,

hey man, he's been subdued. Get off of his neck. It didn't happen. When the video went out, attorney Ben Crump sent out a series of tweets, and then he said information. He was eventually hired by the family. Go to my iPad, please. This is the, we'll try to show you, this is the photo here. This is the photo here. Do you see it now? Okay, folks, we're trying to pull this up. The photo shows where four officers were actually involved in this. It shows you folks how absolutely, you should be able to see it now, folks. Hold on one second, let me pull it back up.

Do you now see it? Okay, I don't understand what's going on, so we'll try to get this sorted out, folks. But bottom line is this here. Four cops in the vault, they are now fired. Now, though, the calls for the district attorney to actually file murder charges against them. The pressure continues. Again, his name is George Floyd.

Minneapolis Police Chief Madaria Arredondo, he was the one who announced their now former employees. The mayor of Minneapolis spoke at a news conference today. Being black in America should not be a death sentence. For five minutes, we watched as a white officer pressed his knee into the neck of a black man for five minutes. When you hear someone calling for help, you are supposed to help. This officer failed in the most basic human sense. What happened on Chicago and 38th.

This last night is simply awful. It was traumatic. And it serves as a clear reminder of just how far we have to go. I saw this tweet earlier. It said black people in Minneapolis are killed at a rate 13 times higher than white people, a larger racial disparity than in almost anywhere else in the country. Samuel Sinyongwe, co-founder of Campaign Zero,

joins us right now. Samuel, glad to have you on the show. You track this data all across the country so people understand the impact of these policies. That tweet jumped out at me. How many people are dying by the hands of Minneapolis police? Yeah, absolutely. So we've been tracking this over the past six years. Every single year we see about 1,200 people are killed by the police. Nationwide, black people are killed by the police at about three times the rate of white people. Now, when you look at Minneapolis, those rates are dramatically higher.

As you said, the rate is about 13 times higher for black people in Minneapolis than it is for white people to be killed by the police. Now, this is something that this is not the first case we have seen in Minneapolis than it is for white people to be killed by the police. Now, this is something that, this is not the first case we have seen in Minneapolis. And what we are seeing now is a call for justice, a call for accountability. Firing these four officers is a start. But as you mentioned earlier in your show, these officers have yet to be charged with a crime.

There remain provisions in their police union contract that may give them their jobs back on appeal. So there's a lot here that still needs to happen with regard to accountability. In fact, you actually tweeted this out here. According to this report, 46 percent of cases appealed through a process called arbitration, which allows a lawyer selected in part by police unions to fully reinstate fire officers and back pay. Minneapolis is one of the cities that lets police discipline be appealed via arbitration. Yep. Yep. And so this is so important to understand the system and the structure at work, because even when officers do get fired, as that data and that report from local media there in Minnesota has shown,

in almost half of all cases, they get their jobs back through a process. You know, most people aren't thinking about arbitration, aren't thinking about arbitrators. But nevertheless, these are people who are lawyers, who are appointed in part by the police union, who have full authority to review these cases and reinstate officers plus back pay well after the fact. So we have to keep the pressure on to make sure that the system doesn't let them off the hook. One of the things that jumps out here again, we might remember the Flannell Castile case.

We also remember the white woman who was killed by a cop. It was real quick justice in his case and the police union did not support him when he went to trial. Exactly. And so you see the difference when it is a black officer compared to a white officer, and when the person who is killed is a white woman compared to, in this case, a black man. And so the racism is operating on multiple different levels here. You're seeing the racism and who is being impacted by this violence. You're also seeing a racism in how the system responds to these incidents, both the system of accountability internally for the administrative discipline,

but then also the system, the criminal justice system and decisions about whether or not these officers should be charged. It's quite clear that this was murder. It's quite clear not only that, but the officers broke multiple department policies, banning chokeholds, policies requiring officers to intervene if they see another officer using excessive force. So, I mean, there were so many different rules

and laws broken. We need to see justice, we need to see accountability, and we need to see these officers charged immediately. Samuel Singh Yongway, we so appreciate it, man. Thanks a lot for Campaign Zero. Thank you. All right, folks, I'm gonna bring in my panel here, Malik Abdul, Republican strategist,

Kelly Bethea, communications strategist, Mustafa Santiago Ali, former senior advisor, environmental justice EPA. I'll start with you, Mustafa. Obviously, that is a disturbing video there. The fact that this police department realized how bad this was for them to move to fire these officers, not even 24 hours after this video was shot shows that they are trying to quail what they saw building a raging storm.

Yeah, there's no way to stop what's coming. When you continue to kill men of color, especially black men, at the rates that are currently going on by the police, then you reap what you sow. There's a study that came out from the National Academy of Sciences that says that police are the sixth leading cause of death for young men of color. So when we know this, then there has to be

changes made. You know, it's okay for us to talk about, you know, the criminal charges and the civil charges that will come as a result of the murder of this man. But we also need to be holding people accountable who continue to refuse to put in place the policies and the legislation that can also help us to alleviate this problem. This man, the police officer, there were four involved, but the police officer who had his knee on the back of this man's neck took away that man's humanity, took away that man's life. And it is reminiscent of Eric Garner. When Eric Garner said, I can't breathe, and those police officers still refused to do anything to allow that man to have that critical breath for life. This is the exact same thing. And yes, they should throw the book at these individuals. And if the police union

wants to get involved, then there should be a suit against them as well. We're joined right now by Nakima Libby Armstrong, former head of the NAACP there in Minneapolis. Okay, folks, she's supposed to be there. So we'll bring her up in a second. She's now a civil rights attorney. Kelly, I want to go to you. First of all, you watched that video. Very callous, knees on his neck. What I'm trying to understand is

how hard is it to put your knee in somebody's back? How hard is it to sit here and seduce someone? You hear the one officer say, well, we tried for 10 minutes. Now, he was allegedly, here's the other thing, he was stopped, detained, eventually killed over a so-called forged check at a store.

The initial question was, how hard is it to put your neck neck to put your knee in somebody's neck thankfully i wouldn't know because that's not what i do that i've never had to do that but what's more disturbing to me is even in the swift action of minneapolis police in terms of responding um in their statement they said that no weapons were used at any time by the man or the officers during the encounter. So that tells me one or two things. One, this man was unarmed, which meant that that level of force was not necessary. But also, they do not understand how your body is a weapon. That man's knee was the weapon.

Those four cops, their negligence was a weapon. Their willful ignorance was a weapon. Them turning their back on that man was a weapon. Them all of a sudden being deaf to a man's cry, that was a weapon. These officers are trained. They might as well be martial artists, literally, because martial law and they know how to fight. Their bodies should be registered as weapons if

they aren't already. So there was a weapon used. It was themselves. It was their ignorance. It was their negligence. It was their stupidity overall and their racism and their bigotry and their xenophobia. For what? Four officers are responsible for one man's death over something that should have never been brought up in the first place. This is beyond disturbing to me. I'm going to bring it right down to Nakeema Levy Armstrong, who's an attorney there in Minneapolis, former head of the Minneapolis branch of the NAACP. Hello? Nakima, are you there? Yes, I'm here.

Give us a sense of what you're hearing there from African Americans in Minneapolis. Hello? Nakima, can you hear me? I can hear you now. Give us a sense of what African Americans are saying and feeling there in Minneapolis. You said what's the scene in Minneapolis? Give me a sense of what you're hearing, what people are saying,

how they're responding to this death of Gerald Floyd. So we're here right now at a rally that we put together. There are thousands of people here. Most of them are wearing masks, and all of them are outraged at the killing of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis Police Department. We have had to come out time and time again when the police have murdered unarmed African-American people, and there has been no justice. And so people are really fed up, and they're saying that they're glad that those four officers have been fired as of today, but now we are seeking criminal charges for the conduct of those four officers

who mercilessly killed George Floyd. It is, you know, look, the video is disturbing. It is shocking. And to see again this officer casually, hands in his pockets like no big deal. I'm choking

the breath out of this guy. This is another day for us. I'm sorry. It's so hard to hear out here at this rally. I couldn't hear the question. Yeah, what I said is it's shocking to sit there and watch this guy so callous, hands in his pocket,

taking the breath out of Floyd's body. Absolutely. It reminds people of what happened. All right. We lost Nakima there. It reminds people of what happened during the lynching era when African-Americans would be killed as an example to other black people to stay in their place, which, of course course strikes terror in the heart of the African-American community. I do believe that the conduct of the officers in question was intentional. Not only those who actually physically restrained him until he died, but also those officers who stood by and watched it happen and who refused to intervene in helping

to save George Floyd's life. When they came up, we certainly appreciate you joining us. We know the rally is going on, and so we'll leave you to that. We're going to try to find that rally online, try to go live to it. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you all. All right. Thank you very much. Malik, the FBI is investigating as well. Again, this is moved quite quickly in Minneapolis.

I think that part is great. You know, this is another one of those instances where, thank goodness for not just camera phones, but social media. The turnaround time, the 24-hour turnaround time is really shocking. And you really made the point well, when you said that this was forgery, but outside, well, an 11 side of that, this is not something that required that, that even necessitated a death. It's the same thing that we have with Ahmaud Arbery. And even though that wasn't an instance with the police department. Hold tight one second, hold tight one second. Go to my iPad please.

This is a live feed that's on Periscope. We were just talking to Nakima. This is the video there. This is from one of the local stations. You see it there, WTLA, WFLA. And so this is obviously a helicopter shot. You see the number of people who are out where George Floyd was murdered by these four police officers. The fact that people in this situation we're dealing with now, shelter in place, coronavirus.

She said people are wearing masks, but the fact that that number of people will come out to protest shows you how quickly this thing escalated and how people are just outraged, not just in Minneapolis, but around the country over what took place with George Floyd. Go ahead, Malik, finish your point. Malik, finish your point. I'm going to choose that. You can't hear me? Yes, go ahead. Yeah. It really shows that people are really, really passionate about this, even during the midst

of actual stay-at-home order. And one of the things that we should keep in mind that in, you know, this is Minnesota. Black people are 18 percent of the population there. And so for this type of thing to happen, and then you see the turnout, and this is, it seems as if the criticism outside of Candace Owens, the criticism, it's been pretty, as far as people criticizing it and really attacking it, it seems to be that's widespread. And I'm glad that we're here, and I'm glad that within 24 hours, we were able to get the first step, which is the firing. So as everyone has said, you know,

the next step is to actually prosecute, well, to charge them so that they can be prosecuted. But I'm glad that we're literally moving this fast over something where usually it takes, if you look at Ahmaud Arbery's case, that was a couple of months of a suppressed video that we never got a chance to see. So I am happy that within 24 hours they acted and let's see what's the next step. This again, it is a shocking and stunning.

Again, people have been reacting all across the country. The family has indeed hired Ben Crump to represent them. And let me say this right now. This is important. I've seen a lot of black people on social media saying, you know, why the family hiring Ben Crump? He loses these cases. Let me explain to those of you who don't seem to understand the legal system. Ben Crump and civil rights attorneys do not prosecute in these cases. The state does. They represent the families in civil lawsuits. They represent the family's interest in trying to get these cases focused on. So when Lee Merritt and Ben Crump

were involved in the Ahmaud Arbery case, their activism, their voices, their vigilance when it comes to media is what brought the attention to the case. And so I need people to understand, Ben Crump, Lee Merritt, or any other, Daryl Parks or any other civil rights attorney, they don't prosecute these cases. So I wish black people and others would stop saying, oh, they lose these cases. They don't lose these cases. They can't prosecute. They are there to represent the interests of the family in order to get justice. And so it sort of drives me crazy listening to these people who go, oh, hire somebody else. That's not how this works, Mustafa.

Exactly. You know, I wish whether in high school or junior high school, people would actually understand the basics of law and of civics, to understand also how challenging these cases are and how, as you said, sometimes it's out of our hands. What we can do is to continue to highlight, to push, and also make sure, as we often say on this show, that we make sure that the right district attorneys are being elected, making sure that the right state attorneys are being elected, making sure that the right state attorneys are being elected. And then of course, also making sure that we have somebody at the Department of Justice when justice doesn't come on the state level or on the local level,

that we've got somebody who's actually there looking out and understanding the impacts that are happening in our communities. Absolutely. All right, folks, I want to go to our second story, another video that absolutely shocked many of us when we saw it. And that is white woman in Central Park calling the cops on a black man who was simply saying he's there birding. He's birdwatching. He's saying, can you put a leash on your dog? Which the signs say you should be doing. Watch Central Park Caring. Would you please stop?

Sir, I'm asking you to stop. Please don't come close to me. Sir, I'm asking you to stop recording me. Please don't come close to me. Please take your phone off me. Please don't come close to me. And I'm taking pictures of calling the cops. Please, please call the cops.

Please call the cops. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in the car. I'm going to tell them there's an African American in Please don't come close to me. And I'm taking pictures of calling the cops. Please, please call the cops. Please call the cops. I'm going to tell them there's an African-American man threatening my life. Please tell them whatever you like. Excuse me. I'm sorry, I'm in a ramble, and there is a man, African American, he is a placeholder.

He is recording me and threatening me and my dog. There is an African American man, I am in such a heart, he is recording me and threatening myself and my dog. I'm like... I'm sorry, I can't hear you either. From the dog. Man in the ramble. Please send the cops immediately. I'm in Central Park in the ramble. I don't know. Thank you. Well, Amy Cooper is her name. Amy Cooper now doesn't have a job.

Yes, she's been fired from her job with Franklin Templeton, where she was a vice president. They tweeted following this. What they said following our internal review of the incident in Central Park yesterday, we have made the decision to terminate the employee involved effective immediately. We do not tolerate racism of any kind at Franklin Templeton. Oh, by the way, the dog is also gone too. This is the statement that was released by the place where she got the dog. Pull it up, please. Thank you. This is Abandoned Angels Cocker Spaniel Rescue, Inc. Thank you to the concerned public for reaching out to us

about a video involving a dog that was adopted from our rescue a few years ago. As of this evening, the owner has voluntarily surrendered the dog in question to our rescue while this matter is being addressed. Our mission remains the health and safety of our rescue dogs. The dog is now in our rescue's care and he is safe and in good health. We will not be responding to any further inquiries about the situation, either publicly or privately. Thank you for your understanding. Keep in mind, keep in mind that they pulled the dog before she got fired. Now, she did release the statement apologizing. Y'all have that? Here we go. Y'all watch this. This is lovely. I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family.

She said in a phone call. This is with NBC. It was unacceptable. And I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who's seen that video. Everyone that's been offended, everyone who thinks of me in a lower light. And I understand why they do. When I think about the police, I'm such a blessed person. I've come to realize, especially today, that I think of the police as a protection agency. And unfortunately, this has caused me to realize that there are so many people in this country that don't have that luxury. Now, here's what's interesting. Where did you see the apology to the brother in that video?

Excuse me, in that statement. But I want to do something again. I want to play again the video. I want you to watch her actions. I want you to watch how she moved towards him and then how she quickly went to call the cops because the scary black man is here. Will you please stop?

Sir, I'm asking you to stop. Please don't come close to me. Sir, I'm asking you to stop recording me. Please don't come close to me. Please take your phone off. Please don't come close to me. And I'm taking pictures calling the cops. Please, please call the cops.

Please call the cops. I'm going to tell them there's an African-American man threatening my life. Please tell them whatever you like. taking pictures calling the cops please please call the cops please call the cops i'm gonna tell them there's an african-american man threatening my life please tell them whatever you like i'm gonna tell them there's an african-american man threatening my life y'all she knew exactly what she was saying because she knows as a white woman oh if a white if a black man is threatening the life as a white woman, oh, if a white, if a black man threatened the life of a white woman, oh, as Maxwell was saying, when the cops come knocking. Oh, yeah, we see exactly what is going on here. Press play.

Excuse me. I'm sorry, I'm in a ramble and there is a man, African American, he is a vice-mahomet, he is recording me and threatening me and my dog. There is an African American man, I am in Central Park. He is recording me threatening myself and my dog. I'm sorry. I can't hear you. I'm being threatened by a man. Right there. Pause right there. I'm in Central Park as an African-American man threatening me and my dog. She repeats it a second time. Now, all of a sudden, here's the distress. Now you see, oh my goodness. Okay. The pain in my voice. And now you begin to hear her raise her voice. And now the whole deal is please send help. Send help. Come get this black man

away from me. That phone call could have turned into a Gerald Floyd press play thank you now interesting things that the man's name is Christian Cooper Kelly here's a problem that I have with all of this if you read many reports it was Christian Cooper a Harvard that I have with all of this. If you read many reports, it was Christian Cooper, a Harvard educated man. First of all, that has nothing to do with his story. If he went to Howard or FAMU or hell, anywhere else, Texas A&M, that would never been a part of it. See, what happens, Kelly, is white folks somehow think going to Harvard inoculates Negroes from racism. When a Negro from Harvard can also be killed. And the thing is, black people who go to Harvard aren't walking around going, hi, Harvard Negro graduate. But that's how media sort of framed this.

That means nothing. I don't care if he didn't go to college. What she did was evil and wrong and deserved to be fired. Absolutely. I really don't like it when you have headlines like that, like Harvard grad or Yale grad or enter prestigious label here as if that is something that, like you said, is supposed to insulate you from racism. First of all, obviously, even if that were the case, in this case, it actually was the case that he is a graduate, she doesn't see Harvard grad when she

is scared and fearing for her life and calling the cops because she's not obeying a city ordinance order. You know, she is looking at him as a black man who is infringing upon her caucasity, you know, and her entitledness. She's not seeing the fact that he's a human being. She's not seeing any of that. She's just seeing something or some, no, really, she's seeing something in her way such that it needs to be moved out of her way. And who better than to move something out of your way than the

police? Because we have a history in this country of police acquiescing to white women when it comes to the hindrances of black men. So, again, it's just incredibly frustrating to me and incredibly infuriating to me that this is still going on. And it almost feels like there's been an uptick in it, so to speak, because we have these stay-at-home orders nationwide, as if, you know, we are going to ignore the fact that racism still exists, or we are going to, you know, it's like they're being sneaky with it. It feels like that, you know, because you're staying at home, police aren't really going to pay attention to the fact that you're infringing on my rights as a human being. That's not going to be the case. People still have cell phones. People still have common sense. And unfortunately, there are still races out there who have neither of those things.

So this is going to continue. It's unfortunate, but it's going to continue. And thankfully, in this situation, he had the wherewithal to videotape himself. And, you know, with her, it was just a matter, I thought of the Wizard of Oz of, I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too. That's exactly what happened with her, so good riddance. Mustafa, again, when you see what is going on here, when you, the desperate pleas of this white woman in distress, that's what she was doing.

She knew exactly what she was doing because the cops come running when a white woman is in distress in America. You know, this is a reoccurring story that we know throughout our history. All we have to do is say Emmett Till. And we know that the lie that was told that he whistled at a white woman got him literally murdered. We know that in that location, in Central Park, and the president played a role in this, and I know someone will probably have something to say about it, but that Central Park Five went to jail

because there were lies that were told, and they spent 14, 15 years in prison because of the assumption that they did something without there being any proof. So we know that this is a reoccurring theme. And I think that it's time for us to actually make some punitive damages along with making sure that people spend some time when they do these types of things. And actually, we had a big discussion today on social media. Now, we know that there are those laws that are out there that if you make a false report to police, then it can be a misdemeanor and you can spend up to six months in jail. And also there could be criminal fines that are

associated with that. We need to have a national law that when these people pick up the phone and they know that this is racially motivated, that they're trying to get the police engaged in a process that could be, you know, literally take people's lives away, that there's a cost. One they shouldn't be wasting the police's time, and two they shouldn't be putting black men and other men of color or other people of color's lives in danger. And I think that if we start penalizing people when they make these false and misleading statements, that it will be one piece of the puzzle in helping

to make change actually happen. Malik, I don't give a damn about this white woman. I don't care about her tears. I don't care if she's lost her job. I don't care if she's lost her dog. The reality is, Amy Cooper, her actions could have led to the death of another black man.

Remember what happened in that damn Walmart when somebody white called the cops in Ohio and John Crawford III was in there on a cell phone, had an air gun, and that person told the cops this person was waving this armed gun in the store, and the cops came there with SWAT, busted in, yelled for him. Crawford turned this way. They fired. John Crawford is dead because some white person got scared. This is not even John Crawford we can actually bring up Tamir Rice. Remember, there was someone who called the police and said that there was a young man. Now, they described 12-year-old Tamir Rice as a young man, and he wasn't a young man at the age of 12.

And when the police got there, of course, we know within three seconds Tamir Rice was dead. So we've seen this thing time and time again. I totally agree with you when you were saying about the, you know, characterizing this or focusing on where he went to school. It doesn't matter if he never went to college. I was pushing back. You know, some of my friends was like, and he was a Harvard graduate. And I was like, I don't care. I don't care what type of graduate he was.

That didn't matter. Skip Lewis Gates was a Harvard professor. That meant nothing. It didn't stop him from being arrested, trying to get into his own home and have the ultimate ultimately a beer summit later. I think that, you know, she deserves everything that's coming to her, except and this is where I'll do. I don't agree that I don't push the notion that she should have been fired from her job. That was something that her company itself decided that they just could not risk. And she was a liability. So I think that the company was well within its right to fire her. I myself was not pushing for her to be fired. But I do think that there should

be some type of, and I think, yeah, Mustafa's right, there are fines associated with filing false claims. You know, whether or not those things are actually prosecuted, I don't know. I know it was a similar thing that we saw in the Jussie Smollett case where he filed what seems to be definitely a false police report, but I don't think that anything actually happened to him from that. But the performance, the BET Arabesque film performance that this woman did with the screaming and all of that, it was so over the top. And she knew exactly what she was doing because she mentioned the fact that he was an African-American because she wanted, you're talking about a dog whistle. This is exactly what that was. She knew exactly what

she was doing. And like you said, she didn't bother to apologize in that statement. She could have just left the statement, but to not apologize to the man who was sitting there in front of you, whom you actually accused of trying to attack you. Now, I will say this last thing. I didn't actually hear the audio until just now because I saw the video. I was already disturbed, and I say this as a dog owner. I was already disturbed watching the video of her basically carrying this dog around with the leash around his neck. And then now that I'm hearing not just the back and forth between Amy and Christian, but I'm hearing the dog squealing itself and I had to turn the volume down because

I was like, oh yeah, that just took it off over the top for me. But they decided that she needed to be fired. Good for her. Maybe she'll think about it again the next time she makes such a claim. Kelly, I don't give a damn. Her ass should have been fired. I keep telling all these white folks,

if y'all keep showing yourselves, you keep getting fired, what needs to happen is black people should be lining up for your jobs. That's what should be happening. And so we have that segment, crazy ass white people. For people like her, these white folks are losing their minds

by calling the cops on black people when it comes to just being in an Airbnb or selling some lemonade or having a barbecue or car is that much into the walkway. No, this is white entitlement where they can say, guess what? I don't, I do not use the N word, but this is essentially what they are saying. Nigga, I'm about to put you in check by calling the cops on you. That's what they are doing. No, that's exactly what they're doing. I disagree with Malik in the sense in the fact that these these people, these perpetrators should not be losing their jobs.

And here's why. Even if the job is not necessarily client facing, and I've said this on your show before, if you have a client facing job and you have racial bias, you shouldn't be in that job. And I stand by that statement. However, if you do not have a job like that, where you were not client facing, but you do something like this, now you are client facing because this person, you know, this, I can't even remember her actual name. Amy Cooper. Amy. What Amy just did was actually put not only herself, but everything that she represents in the spotlight.

So if people see your face and they associate you with that company, guess what? People can boycott that company because she's still there. People will, you know, try and boycott that company because she's still there. People will try and sabotage that company because she's still there. That business will lose money, will lose its standing in the world because she's still there. And there are clauses. I don't know what it was about her contract, but there are moral clauses in a lot of people's contracts such that you shouldn't be doing basically dumb stuff such as this so long as you are employed with this particular company. And the minute that you breach that that she did deserve to get fired. That made her a liability to that company. Well, stop. The thing here is this here. OK.

And if a person acts this way, we don't know what you might do in the office. We don't know when it comes to hire. We don't know when it comes to other clients. And I'm telling you, I keep here's what I keep trying to explain to people, which is why this show matters, because you're not going to have this dialogue on these other networks. White people, not all of them, but there are white people in this country who are absolutely scared to death of 2043, of this nation becoming a nation majority, people of color. And you have these folks who are freaking out, who are going to call the cops at the drop of a hat, who are going to sit here and get put in our place

because there is fear. There is fear. And I'm sorry, I'm not giving an inch to any of these people, Mustafa. None of them. I want every single one of them to lose their jobs. I want them to be embarrassed. I want them to lose their livelihood because their white tears and fears are literally putting black people's lives on the line. Racism has cost people of color, particularly African-Americans, their lives, their livelihood, and a number of other aspects for hundreds of

years now. So it's time that racism also costs those who are perpetuating it on others. And that's the way I feel about it. Well, and I just and what bothers me is this whole notion that we can't deal with the reality of whiteness in 2020. And you take what took place there with George Floyd. You take what has taken place here. And this is just for me, again, for me, what bothers me when we are still dealing with whiteness in 2020. And there's another story, and it's a political story that bothered me, and this took place over the weekend. All these

white conservatives were up in arms because the New York Times did a story about these military bases named after white supremacists. And they have been tweeting the story around, all mad and upset and angry,

saying, you know, how dare you write that story on Memorial Day weekend. And I saw these tweets from literally the spokesman from the Pentagon. This is the person who is the chief spokesman for the Pentagon, who was all upset because of this story. And again, I'm bringing this up because I need people to understand this white fragility and how these folks respond. So here it is right here. Jonathan Hoffman, on a solemn day for remembering those that have given their lives for our country, fighting against tyranny and subjugation. The New York Times has more than a million possible stories of the ultimate sacrifice by American patriots that they could tell, but they don't. What was the headline of the New York Times story? Why does the U.S. military celebrate white supremacy?

Subhead, it is time to rename bases for American heroes, not racist traitors. So let me go back up and read this again. And I'm coming to you first, Malik. So let me go back up and read this again. And I'm coming to you first, Malik. On a solemn day for remembering those that have given their lives for our country, fighting against tyranny and subjugation. Full stop. Malik, that can be applied to black soldiers who were lynched in their uniforms, who gave their lives to tyranny

and subjugation. It can speak for the black soldiers who were trying to be American patriots fighting for a nation, and the nation was actually practicing racism against them. This weekend, I spent time watching Red Tails and the HBO movie Tuskegee Airmen and Men of Honor about Carl Brashear.

Spike Lee has his movie coming out. In our history, black soldiers have caught hell. But so it's amazing when the Pentagon chief spokesman cannot see the duality of black folks in the military catching hell. But see, I can't just talk about what took place all those years ago, Malik, because what I also found to be interesting is that in February, the Military Times published a story about the rise of white supremacy and racism in the U.S. military.

But the white Pentagon spokesman, I guess, never came across that particular story. White fragility is a problem in 2020, Malik. Yeah, I mean, I think this is really an overreach and you're conflating. I don't think it's necessary to conflate this or even bring this up in the context of what we were discussing with Christian.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. First of all, I'm speaking of white fragility. And so I'm giving another example of white fragility. Yeah, but in this particular case, we're literally talking about the Pentagon spokesperson given we're responding to an op-ed. He can have an opinion about whether or not he thinks it's appropriate for the... And we can also have an opinion about what he said, because we're paying him. We're taxpayers. We're paying him. We're talking at the same time, so I want to make sure

that I'm listening to you. What did you just say? I said we're taxpayers. We're paying him. So he actually works for us. So he's just simply not just giving his opinion. As the chief spokesman for the Pentagon, he's actually speaking for the Pentagon. He's speaking for the Department of Defense, all 1.3 million members of the armed services, as the chief spokesperson for the Department of Defense. Yeah, well, I don't have a problem that on Memorial Day, a day when we're actually honoring our veterans,

I don't have a problem with the Pentagon deciding to push back on a New York Times article. Yes, there are other articles that the New York Times could have printed. They decided to print one about white supremacy. I don't have a problem with them printing an article about white supremacy, but the notion that someone, our military apparatus, they're responding to an op-ed that's talking about essentially asking why is the military promoting or whatever white supremacy. I don't have a problem with him responding to that because it's an opinion that he had. That was an op-ed, and so he's responding to the op-ed.

I still think that that's a very separate thing from what we've been talking up until this particular segment. I don't think that those two have to be combined at all. First of all, again, Kelly, so let me go ahead and get you, because maybe you understand the point, okay? When you talk about white fragility, it's not a question of saying, well, this is the same. It's another example of white fragility.

And what I'm doing is I'm pointing out three things, Kelly, that have happened in the last 72 hours. And that is, here you have what took place in Central Park. Here you have what took place in Minneapolis. And then you have this here. And then again, Kelly, all these little white conservatives, all perfectly fine with it. But when you are the chief spokesman for the Pentagon, again, you are speaking for the 1.3 million members. I would think your brain would say, hmm, the piece is said, the piece says, why does the U.S. military celebrate white supremacy? And it's talking about these bases.

Well, guess what? Black soldiers matter too, especially when people of color, Kelly, make up 43% of all those in the armed services. No, I don't understand why the spokesman said anything at all because it's an op-ed. It wasn't a report. It wasn't a manifesto against the military or anything like that.

When you're a spokesperson for an agency, you speak, like you said, on behalf of the entire agency. You don't just speak for your party. You shouldn't, we personally should not know what party you belong to, where your political standing is. It is supposed to be neutral. Why? Because you are supposed to be representing not just your base or your ideological base.

You're supposed to be representing the entire military that consists of Democrats, Republicans, non-voters, voters, libertarians, Green Party, whomever. And it's supposed to be, he's supposed to be representing this entity as a unit. So as a spokesman, for him to splinter the military that way, he's basically splintered the Pentagon's standing in one tweet because, again, we're not supposed to know what their opinion is. The Pentagon is supposed to serve and protect. That's it. You know, oversee our military.

That's it. See, here's what really bugs me, Mustafa. The fact that white fragility is like, we have to be so, no, no, no, no, no, don't, don't, don't, don't bring up all that stuff. Can we just, can we only just focus on the flag

and like, can we just all, do we really have to bring that stuff up? You cannot talk about Memorial Day and somehow divorce the reality of what black soldiers have had to endure in the military. You can't. And so the New York Times opinion piece of what black soldiers have had to endure in the military. You can't. And so the New York Times opinion piece is still talking about,

here we are still celebrating Memorial Day, and again, in the Pentagon person, American patriots, but we got bases named after white supremacists. Yeah, I think it's a damn good time to talk about that on Memorial Day and Veterans Day and Armed Services Day and any other day when we focus on the military. Exactly. And let's be very clear,

and I don't know why folks can't be clear about this. White supremacy is the foundation that the Confederacy was built on. The Confederacy was an adversary, a military adversary to our country. We don't have monuments for Stalin. We don't have monuments for any of the others from Germany, you know, Hitler. So to continue to name or to allow the naming of bases from before to carry the names of folks who were adversaries, military adversaries to the United States makes no sense. And it sends a psychological message to those who are white that these

types of behaviors, even though if they were some time in the past, were okay, and that we can continue to honor those. And it sends a message to those military men and women of color that these are okay folks to look up to, that there was some value in the things that they were espousing at that time and today. And it's just no longer acceptable. So let me read from this Malik headline,

militarytimes.com, February 6th, signs of white supremacy extremism up again in poll of active duty troops. More than one third of all active duty troops and more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological driven racism within the ranks in recent months, according to the latest survey

of active duty military times readers. The poll surveyed 1,630 active duty military times subscribers last fall on their views about political leaders, global threats, and domestic policy priorities. It offers a troubling snapshot of troops' exposure to extremist views while serving despite efforts from military leaders to promote diversity and respect for all races. The 2019 survey found that 36% of troops who responded have seen evidence of white supremacists and racist ideologies in the military,

a significant rise from the year before when only 22%, about one in five, reported the same in the 2018 poll. The point I'm making is this here, Malik. If the Pentagon spokesman wants to be so critical of the New York Times talking about military bases being named after white supremacists, I don't see anything where the Pentagon spokesman has spoken out about how minority members of the military feel about white nationalism and white supremacy today.

That to me is the fundamental problem when you're the Pentagon's chief spokesman and you somehow want to dismiss white supremacy and say, just don't even bring it up. Can we just not... Can we just... Can you just not talk about that? Can you just not talk about it this weekend? Yeah, well, Roland, what actually happened

is that he was responding to the op-ed. He didn't say, and you saw the quote, he didn't say anything in reference to being in favor of these memorials or anything like that. He said that you shouldn't have done it on this day. But see, but here's the thing. Malik, Malik, that's cute.

But Malik, that's cute. When somebody says, why did y'all have to write it now? He didn't say, hey, New York Times, y'all should have run this next now? He didn't say, hey, New York Times, y'all should have run this next week. He didn't say that. What he's really trying to say is, why y'all bringing this up? Don't bring this stuff up.

We don't need to be bringing this stuff up. Nah, yes, we do. Yeah, well, I think that's probably an embellishment on your part, Rose. Yeah, right. And I'm actually surprised. I'm actually surprised that we're still having this conversation because it was about a day ago when you tagged me in the tweet, probably about an hour or so after you found out about the tweet itself. No, actually, actually, it wasn't an hour.

Actually, let me help you out. Actually, let me help you out. It wasn't. Let me help you out because if you're going to lie, I'm going to stop you from lying. It wasn't an hour after I found out. There were a number of people who actually retweeted that on my timeline several hours earlier. I had been responding to several different items on that day. I then chose to talk about that one. So please don't say I just found

out an hour earlier, but go right ahead. Well, when I saw it, when I saw you actually talking about it, I think there was a succession of tweets around 11 or so o'clock. And what you said was you tagged me in the tweet asking, will I say something about it? It was around 11 o'clock at night. And do you have a problem with it? Are you in agreement with the spokesman or do you believe that we should be talking about military bases named after white supremacists? Which one? Well, I don't think that I don't think that it was necessary to talk about it on Memorial Day.

Oh, so. So hold up. So you're saying let's talk about it. You're saying let's talk about it. But let's not talk about Memorial Day. No, no, no. But see, but Malik, but Malik, but Malik, what I'm not going to do is. But Malik, but here's the whole deal. Here's the whole deal, Malik. Here's the whole deal, Malik. Here's the whole deal, Malik. Here's the whole deal. What I'm not going to do is, see what I'm going to do. Mustafa, this is real simple.

Mustafa, this is real simple. Here's the whole deal. When you have folks who don't want to deal with the reality, again, I am now talking to Mustafa. Y'all can mute him, please. Here's the point that you have here, Mustafa. Here's what you have. First of all, you're not going to hijack the show. Here's what you're mute him, please. Here's the point that you have here, Mustafa. Here's what you have. First of all, you're not going to hijack the show. Here's what you're dealing with, Mustafa.

What you're dealing with, Mustafa, I'm done with you because you can't listen. Mustafa, here's the point I'm making. White fragility in 2020 is all about don't bring that up. Don't bring that up. Here's the thing that white folks in power need to understand. These are no longer black people from 1962. These are not black people from 1954. Black people are no longer going to be quiet.

We're going to speak up. And guess what? We're going to record your behind. We're going to sit here and check you. We're going to record your behind. We're going to sit here and check you. We're going to go after your jobs. We're going to put the pressure on you because we are gaining in numbers. Guess what? We're not going to play these games with white people in power who want us to be quiet, Mustafa. We're going gonna highlight injustice wherever it might be,

and we're also gonna make sure that we utilize our power. And we're gonna make sure that there's also accountability that's tied to that power. So if you don't wanna do the right thing, we'll find people who will, because we'll utilize our vote to make change happen. If you wanna do egregious behaviors, we'll utilize the law to put you in check.

And we'll also make sure we hit you in the pocketbook, which seems to be one of the main things that actually gets your attention. You talk about voting. In a moment, I'm going to go to that story. First, folks, here's the whole piece. We want you to support what we do. Roland Martin Unfiltered, join our Bring the Funk fan club. We make it, look, your dollars make it possible for us to do what we do, covering these stories and having this level of dialogue. Support us via Cash App, dollar sign right here, RM Unfiltered. You can also support us folks other ways as well.

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Donald Trump continues his complete lies, his attacks on mail-in voting. He spent all weekend tweeting about how bad it is, how dangerous it is, how he can steal ballots, except for the fact that he voted by mail himself. Republicans out there are actually mailing out ballots. He's whining about Democrat-led states that are offering the same opportunity for the votes because what they're doing is, they're actually sending out applications.

Now he doesn't care about the risk of casting in-person ballots in the coronavirus pandemic, like what took place in Wisconsin. He's advancing conspiracy theories. Twitter has now slapped him down by fact-checking his tweets. Joining me right now is Sherog Baines, director of legal strategies at DMOS.

Sherog, how you doing? I'm good, Roland. How are you doing? You have somebody here who is a liar. He is lying. He is trying to sit here and say, oh, my God, this is so bad, this is so awful, it's gonna destroy America, when voter fraud with Mail in the Valley is...

First of all, it's not even like a small number. It's a joke of a conversation. Yes, that's absolutely right. I mean, the claim that, you know, voting by mail is unsafe or some kind of threat is a complete con. I mean, the evidence, we can talk about the evidence. When you look at the evidence, you know, the studies that have been done show that it is vanishingly infrequent that there's any kind of voter fraud when it comes to vote

by mail. And, you know, I can give you the numbers on that. Oregon, for example, has been voting by mail for years, and out of 100 million ballots cast, they've had 12 examples of voter fraud. There's a study shown that voter fraud, where someone's trying to impersonate someone else over a 14-year period of over a billion ballots cast, there's been 31 demonstrated cases. So but, you know, the problem with this is we're talking on the president's terms. He wants us to be talking about voter fraud. Voter fraud isn't a thing.

That is, when you hear voter fraud, you should think voter suppression. People who want you to be talking about voter fraud actually wanna make it harder for people to vote, and specifically black and brown people. They want less voting, because it helps them stay in power. And what he also wants to do is,

he's talking about, oh, this is rigged. What he is trying to do is incite his white base, and Republicans have already shown their cards. The leader in Georgia said, was caught on the audio saying, oh, my goodness, if we sit here and do mail-in ballots and the Republicans, we're not going to win anything. Republican Party wants to keep the vote numbers low because that benefits them.

High turnout elections benefit Democrats. Republicans want low turnout elections. Yeah, I think that's right. Right now there's a lot at stake, right? It's the presidential election. It's the control of Congress. It's all the state legislatures and the local races. And we are on the cusp of the next cycle of redistricting. That's something that's really control of Congress. It's all the state legislatures and the local races.

And we are on the cusp of the next cycle of redistricting. That's something that's really important to remember. And we can't have this conversation without thinking about the kind of smoking gun evidence that came out recently with the sort of chief strategist. Hoffler was his name for the Republican Party. Tom Hoffler. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Hoffler, the name, for the Republican Party. Tom Hoffler. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Hoffler, the memo, right?

The Hoffler memo says that the goal here is to try to change how districting is done. And if you can district in a way that you're not looking at total population, but you're looking at citizen adult population, right, which skews white, that's going to benefit what he said, Republicans and non-Hispanic whites. That's right there in black and white in his memo. So I think that the folks who are behind this strategy, they have a clear agenda. It is to strip black and brown people and other voters of color of political power. And we have to understand that that is what is at the bottom of this attack on vote by

mail as well. Sherrod Bangs, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much for joining us. Thank you, attack on vote by mail as well. Sherrod Baines, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much for joining us. Thank you, Roland, I appreciate it as well. All right, Malik, you voted for Donald Trump last time. You said you're gonna vote for him again. Why is your boy scared of mail-in balloting? Why is he lying on Twitter?

Why is he making stuff up? Yeah, well, yes, I'm gonna vote for him again. Every time I come on your show, my answer is gonna be the same. And I'm asking to vote for him again. Every time I come on your show, my answer is going to be the same. And I'm asking you again, why is he lying? Why is he lying about mail-in balloting? Why is he making stuff up? Now Twitter is having to fact-check him.

He is lying. He is flat-out lying about mail-in balloting. He's lying. Well, as I said, I think it was probably last week or the week before that on your show, is that this is something that Republicans have said for a while with this fear. And I think it's an irrational fear about mail-in ballots. The reality is, is that there are mail-in ballots and there are absentee ballots. Truthfully, absentee ballots are the secure, if you will, way to vote. Mail-in ballots is something in many,

I think it's only five states that have mail-in ballots. And if you look at the Bipartisan Justice Center, if you look at the article, I think it was a recent article that they just did on mail-in versus absentee ballots, they talk about the difficulty itself with mail-in ballots and the system itself is wrought with very many problems. So one of the concerns that the Bipartisan Justice Center, I think that's the name of

it, one of the things that they talked about is in the middle of this particular crisis that this is probably not the best time to do widespread mail-in ballots. The problem is, and I think that's one of the things that they suggested, is that we need to expand or release for those states who have restrictions or when you have to give an explanation for your absentee ballot. They don't even want that. They don't want that. They don't even want, they don't want any of that. None of that. Well, maybe not. No, no, no, he's lying. He literally is saying, oh my goodness,

they're stealing ballots out of boxes. First of all, they're not even ballots. He lied by sending a tweet out saying that it was illegal what the Secretary of State when Michigan was doing when in fact, what she was doing was what the voters voted on in 2018.

So the guy who you support and just adore is lying. Okay, I mean, well, the guy that you support believes that he gets to dictate who's black and who's not. There are people, you know. And the guy you support also signed a bill overturning Obama-era rules when it came to ending all discrimination against black people. The guy you support does not believe in police consent decrees. The guy who you support does not want to see progressive district attorneys.

The guy who you support wants to roll back civil rights protections in HUD, in HHS, in every federal department. The guy who you support wants to appoint federal judges who are far right-wing judges when 88% of them have been white men. Kelly, let me go to you. Donald Trump is a liar, Kelly. No, no, no. You brought it up. I'm done with you. Kelly, Donald Trump is a liar and he wants to lie because he wants to invalidate the election. I mean, that that's pretty evident and it's been evident throughout his entire presidency. I'm surprised that it took this long for Twitter to start fact checking because he's been doing it since he got elected. Regarding the core issue of this, at this time being the ballots, I mean, Republicans are running scared

because they know that they screwed up. And they know that if things were to go accordingly, they would no longer be in power. You know, white nationalists, white supremacists, people who are more or less the core of the Republican Party at this point, they're dwindling. Our country is getting browner and browner by the day, and they're scared. And what do people do when they get scared? They do whatever they can to maintain whatever standing they have. And in this case, white people have been in power for a very long time,

since the inception of this country. What are they going to do? They're going to try and preserve and keep and possibly strengthen the power that they already have. And because they can't do it through legal, ethical means, they're going to do it by whatever means necessary, such as a president who has been proven to be inept and incompetent and just a puppet for whomever is behind the strings. I don't

know who. I don't really care. But they are using him, and he is using himself, whatever, to perpetuate a lie consistently for the past four years. But specifically with voting, he can't use the truth to his advantage because the truth is, like the previous speaker just said, absentee ballots are perfectly fine as is. Mail-in voting has been happening for decades and nothing's, you know, by and large has been going on that's wrong with it. So what do you do in that situation? You lie about it and try and spin it and cause propaganda and anxiety within your base and within people who really don't know what's going on and try to get them on your side through lies. Mustafa, this is very simple. The Republican Party has a very clear,

they've already said they're gonna spend millions trying to stop states from mailing out absentee ballot applications. Now, first of all, there are very few states that require you to have an excuse to vote for absentee. There are very few. They know what's coming. They are deathly afraid.

Mustafa, they tried it in Wisconsin. They did everything in their power to limit the votes by mail in Wisconsin because they were hell-bent on trying to hold on to that Supreme Court position in Wisconsin. And guess what happened? People went to the polls, people got infected with coronavirus, and they still threw his ass out of office. He lost. And now he recused himself from previous voter cases. Now that he's lost, now it's, oh, I'm going to go ahead and vote on them because he lost the election. I keep trying to explain to people, the Republican Party is about voter suppression. This is their absolute strategy. And when people like Malik support that

by voting for people who support that, that's the piece. If you're voting for the people who endorse and are actively engaged in voter suppression, you are endorsing that. Mustafa, go ahead. Our vote is a foundational element of our democracy, and when you try

and limit someone's ability to be able to fully participate in that process, it says that you don't care about democracy. So, you know, that's the theoretical conversation. The reality of the situation is that this is about power, you know, and they understand that if they want to be able to frame out a direction where they still have viability, then that means that they've got to control the courts. And if you can control the courts, then you can also manipulate the policy that's out there, or you can play a stronger role in the way that policy moves.

And, you know, so we understand the game that is going on, but if the Republican Party really wanted to be viable, then they would actually sit down and build real relationships with folks and create policy that is reflective of what a 21st century America is supposed to look like. And since they're not willing to do that, then they're going to have to deal with what's going to happen in November. But we also got to stay on point. We got to make sure that we are engaging. We got to make sure that people have the, you know, the documents, you know, the ID that's necessary.

Know where your polling places are. Make sure your polling places aren't going to get moved. Then we got to make sure that we get people to the polls, not just yourself, bringing other people there. And then we got to vote and we got to vote all up and down the ticket if you want real change to happen. And that's how you check this foolishness that they continue to move forward on. All right, Mellick, final comment. Yeah, well, I think there are probably about 14 or 15 states that do absentee, where you have to have an excuse for the absentee ballots. Yeah, I say the majority of them you don't. Yeah, the majority of the states you don't have to have an excuse at all.

And I think that that's something that we should look for. But I think that it's for your audience, your great audience, I think we do need to understand the difference between mail-in voting and absentee voting. They're actually doing mail-in voting. And ironically, they're doing mail-in voting here in D.C., early voting now. And we haven't even completed phase one of that coronavirus, that threshold that the federal government set out. So, Malik, what's the difference between, but we're getting ready to do voting now. What's the difference between mail-in voting and absentee voting?

Oh, okay, well, you must weren't listening when I explained that earlier. No, actually, you didn't explain it. You simply said it was happening. What's the difference? Okay, well, if you, and we can reference, I think that's the Bipartisan Justice Center, but they have a good explanation of what absentee versus.

No, I'm asking you right now, what is it? So with absentee voting, what you do, you, the person, request the absentee ballot yourself, and there's an actual... That thing is actually documented. As far as mail-in voting... Hold on, hold on, wait, wait, wait. So that means that you request the absentee ballot. It's mailed...

Wait, wait, wait. It's mailed to you. You fill out your ballot and you mail it back. So what's mail-in voting? So no, no. What's mail-in voting? So mail-in voting is actually something different. And I think that when you were talking about mail-in voting. Mail-in voting is similar to, and I think that was

California, I think there was where Donald Trump, and he totally didn't get it right what was happening, and I don't know if that was California or maybe Michigan or something. It was Michigan. But physically, what is mail-in voting? They mail

you a ballot, they mail you a ballot, and you fill it out, and you mail it back in. Is that mail-in voting? So I'm actually talking... They mail you a ballot, they mail you a ballot, and you fill it out, and you mail it back in. Is that mail-in voting? Say that again? Is mail-in voting where they mail you a ballot, and you fill it out, and you mail it back in?

Yes. So mail-in voting is actually the same as absentee voting. The only difference is with absentee, you are requesting the ballot. With mail-in voting,

they are sending you the application to request the ballot. Well, yeah. You don't think that that's an actual distinction there? Hold up. The process is the same. You're voting by mail.

But there's absentee ballot, there's absentee voting, and then there's mail-in voting. They're just not the same. You just said why they're not the same. How do people overseas in the military vote? I think it's absentee, I believe. Which means they mail it in, right? Yeah, they request it. But I think the distinction believe. Which means they mail it in, right? Yeah, they request it. But I think the distinction is... But do they mail it in? Yes.

Okay. So, Kelly, I'm just trying to understand, Kelly. The big deal is, oh, the difference is you're requesting it versus what they're doing in California. They're mailing in California. They're mailing, they're mailing, they're mailing the applications. Kelly, this is how silly Republicans are with this argument. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're for it, but we,

because the reality is you're still mailing it in. But you're the one who asked me. Kelly's talking, Kelly, go ahead. No, I understand both points of this, but at the end of the day, you're right. It is about just mailing in your vote. The website that Malik was referring to earlier is through the Bipartisan Policy Center, where they do give you the distinction between absentee and vote by mail. And it's basically what you just said, Roland. So absentee, and I'm reading it from the site now.

It says, absentee voting refers to when a voter requests a ballot and if eligible, gets one by mail or email. And a vote by mail is the process of sending every single voter a ballot without a request. So either way, like you said, it's getting mailed to you. Whether you ask for it or not is the difference. And there's still a process.

There's still a process. That's the only distinction. At the end of the day, what Trump is doing is saying that neither process is good because of fraud. But that's not the case. Right. They get it. where Charlie Kirk was like, there was these ballots from South Carolina that ended up in Maryland. Well, because the- Yeah, that's not the case at all. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold up. That was because the company that South Carolina, the counties contracted out with,

they also contracted them to print and to mail them. The company screwed up. But they tried, but they didn't put the link out there because they want people to think, oh, the people in Maryland were voting in South Carolina. No, because here's the process. Even though when they send you your ballot, they still check it when it arrives in the state.

Absolutely. They're making it sound like, oh, we mail it out and they all come in. Nothing gets checked and it's just fraud. But I'm glad that we can at least agree to the various institutions. No, that's not what's happening at all. But I just wanted to make one point before you go ahead, is that if this was such a fraudulent process, then why are we getting our stimulus checks by mail?

Why are we getting anything from the government by mail? If it's such a bad idea to have government entities send us things through USPS or whatever mailing service that they use. Oh, Donald Trump. Oh, the USPS sucks. If that is the case, then that's on y'all. That's on the Trump administration because he's the one who has to hire the postmaster.

He's the one who has control over all of these things. It's silly. Or the administration, right? So if you really have an issue with mailing anything, that's still back on Trump. It's silly. It has nothing to do with specifically mailing. All right, folks.

We need to understand that specifically mail-in ballots. We need to understand that it really is a lie. It's silly. Here's the deal. I got to go to the next story. I got to go to the next story. Five or six states actually participate in the all-mail voting.

Okay, well, guess what? It's going to be more because, guess what? We're trying to keep people from dying with coronavirus, making them stand in line. All right, Mustafa, Malik, Kelly, I appreciate it. Folks, I've recently had the opportunity to sit down with Andre. First of all, let me do this here. I'm going to go to a break, and then I'm going to come

back with this story right here. We'll be back with Roland Martin Unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there? Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel.

That's YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. All right, so a lot of y'all are always asking me about some of the pocket squares that I wear. Now, I don't, and Robby don't have one on. Now, I don't particularly like the white pocket squares. I don't like even the silk ones. And so I was reading GQ Magazine a number of years ago

and I saw this guy who had this pocket square here and it looks like a flower. This is called a shibori pocket square. This is how the Japanese manipulate the fabric to create this sort of flower effect. So I'm going to take it out and then place it in my hand so you see what it looks like. And I said, man, this is pretty cool. And so I tracked down, it took me a year to find a company that did it. And so they basically basically about 47 different

colors and so I love them because again as men we don't have many accessories to wear so we don't have many options and so this is really a pretty cool pocket screen and what I love about this here is you saw when it's in in the pocket you know it gives you that flower effect like that but if I wanted to also unlike other because if I flip it and turn it over, it actually gives me a different type of texture. And so, therefore, it gives me a different look. So, there you go. So, if you actually want to get one of these shibori pocket squares, we have them in 47 different colors. All you got to do is go to rollinglessmartin.com forward slash pocket squares.

So, it's rollinglessmartin.com forward slash pocket squares. So it's rollinglessmartin.com forward slash pocket squares. All you got to do is go to my website and you can actually get this. Now, for those of you who are members of our Bring the Funk fan club, there's a discount for you to get our pocket squares. That's why you also got to be a part of our Bring the Funk fan club. And so that's what we want you to do. And so it's pretty cool. So if you want to jazz your look up, you can do that.

In addition, y'all see me with some of the feather pocket squares. My sister who is a designer, she actually makes these. They're all custom made. So when you also go to the website, you can also order one of the customized feather pocket squares right there at rollingnessmartin.com forward slash pocket squares. So please do so. And of course, that goes to support the show.

And again, if you're a Bring the Funk fan club member, you get a discount. This is why you should join the fan club. Folks, I recently had the opportunity to sit down with Andre Perry to talk about his new book, Know Your Price, Valuing Black Lives and Property in America's Black Cities. Folks, the discussion that we've had today dealing with Gerald Floyd in Minneapolis,

dealing with Amy Cooper in New York City, Central Park, speaks to that whole point about how black lives are not valued in this country. Check out this conversation. All right. Andre Perry, glad to have you here. Let's get right into it. Here's one of the things that I find to be very interesting. Is that after the Civil War, people of African descent have been greatly devalued in America, even until today. Yet the only period in which people of African descent

had our maximum value is when we were property. That's right. That's exactly, you know, it's funny. We talk about being in a state of full employment, obviously before this current recession. And I said, we've never been a part of full employment. The only time we've been a part of full employment, it wasn't that good for us, but obviously during slavery. But the economy has always left African Americans, structurally, that there are structures in this economy that depress our economic growth. And so what I do in this book, Know Your Price, is identify how those structures limit the growth of African-Americans, because there's this myth that the state of black cities,

the state of black institutions are a direct result of the individuals within them. And so what this book does, it says there's nothing wrong with Black people that ending racism can't solve. If we really want to see growth, we should remove those barriers that limit economic development. And the thing, but see, for me, I think this thing, when you talk about economic development, I think that phrase itself, I think when people hear that phrase, they're now thinking in terms of businesses, homes. But for me, economic development also means as an individual, you can reach your maximum potential. I remember, and I'm using an example, when I interned at a CBS affiliate in Bryan College Station, Texas, where I went to Texas A&M University. And that was a weekend sports anchor job that became available. And it was made clear

to me by friends of the news director because he had a run-in with a black man a decade earlier. He was not going to hire me for the job. Undeniable, I was absolutely the best choice. The assistant sports director, the sports director, the 6 p.m. executive producer all were like, yo, this is a no-brainer. But this dude had an issue with a black man a decade ago.

And I remember I was talking to somebody who worked at that station years later, and he was like, Roland, you keep bringing that thing up, but you've done well for yourself. I said, no, no, no. I said, wait a minute. The issue is not how well I've done in spite of his racism. I said, where would I be today? Had I not had to deal with that and see that to me is the crux of this, that white Americans don't understand. They look at you and say,

but you're a successful African American. Yeah. But, but, but could I be even more successful had I not had to deal with the bullshit of race. Oh, absolutely. I mean, in a nutshell, you described what I do empirically. I test for to see whether or not these, how much these barriers limit our growth. I mean, in education, in business, in housing, all these things, Our assets are strong.

And of course, that means people. We're a strong people. Our assets are strong, but they are devalued. Meaning if they, like the study that sort of serves as the anchor for Know Your Price is the housing devaluation study, where I show that homes in black neighborhoods, if they were helicoptered in a white neighborhood, so to speak, they would increase in value by 23 percent, about $48,000 per home.

We're losing about $156 billion. And that's just with 2017 data, $156 billion that's lost. Not because that asset is any worse. It's because right off the top, structurally, that's taken away. And so that plays out in our lives. We know that if we were a white person, if you were a white person, if you were someone else, your pay would be higher. You'll probably have a professional advancement. And that's on a collective level. Where would we be? So we've got to remove this myth

that the causes of our plight is of our own doing. And that's that myth that oftentimes that is leveraged by white institutions to continuously suppress us. But our assets are strong. Reverend Jackson often says this when he always uses this description. He says that the basketball court is 94 feet long, no matter where you go in the country. The goal is 10 feet high. You get five players. I get five players. You get the same. The goal is 10 feet high. You get five players. I get five players.

You get the same number of timeouts that I do. He said that the rules are clear. They're published. Everyone knows. And the reason African-Americans are able to compete because it's actually about talent, nothing else. He said, imagine if you had the same standard in everything else well the rules were clear the rules were published everybody operated by the same set of rules he said undoubtedly african-americans would have sailed in every area because there would not be these subjective labels.

It would all be very clear and concise. You know, and this is absolutely true. And we're seeing that being played out with the payroll protection plan and the distribution of funds. They said that it would go to businesses, all businesses that need it. Clearly, the rules did not meet what ultimately happened, that those businesses that were already financed, already being served by banks that got the money, those businesses that also needed those funds did not receive it. If you really wanted to see black businesses grow, you would have put money into the Minority Business Development Agency.

That's the agency that works with black banks, that works with CDFIs. If you really wanted to level the playing field, if you'd given money to big banks, you would have had them enrich smaller ones. And we can easily see a fintech company supplying a smaller black bank or a CDFI with the technology that would enable them to take in more customers. But we're not seeing this. In fact, we're seeing almost the opposite. It's like my friend Natalie Molina says, if a pool was segregated for years and years, and then they expected black people to come to a pool party later on, that's not going to happen.

And so the federal government worked with banks and financial institutions that have denied us for years. If you wanted to level the playing field, you would enrich the banks, the financial institutions that best serve African-Americans. So, again, what what my book tries to do is say that this is not our fault. We have got to work towards leveling the playing field by investing in assets because no one invests in problems. And if we're constantly framed as a problem, we never get those investments that ultimately leads to growth. Well, if I if I use an example of me of that is look, Africa has seven of the 10 fastest growing economies in the world. Yet if you look at the conversation about the continent of Africa today, it's always a continent about offering aid, not investment. Aid says you're broke, you're poor, it's a handout.

You're the needy, you're sick, you're impoverished. Investment says there's value in you. So therefore, I'm going to achieve a beneficial result by investing in you and getting a rate of return. That's frankly how white folks in America in power see African-Americans. Oh, my goodness. They're downtrodden. Look at all these health stats. Look at the economic stats. And so therefore, let's help them. No, no, no, this is not a philanthropic endeavor. It comes down to, no, no,

what is the level of investment that's real and tangible? Now, I did a study where we scraped Yelp data from businesses all across the United States just to see, get a sense of quality. I looked at businesses in black communities. I looked at businesses in black communities and I looked at businesses in white communities and what we found may surprise some folks. Businesses in black communities owned by people of color,

black, Latinos and Asians, score higher on Yelp than their white counterparts. What our ancestors used to say, well, not our ancestors, our elders used to say, they still say, our ice is just as cold, our water is just as wet, all those different analogies. What our elders used to say holds up empirically. They knew if you deny quality in a particular area, if you bypass that quality, you distort a market that suppresses the development, in this case, of Black people. So again, we know how to run businesses. We know how to run communities. However, they're

constantly being suppressed by this horrible narrative that our goods are not as quality, that individual behaviors are ruining the black community, and it's just not founded. Well, I'll give you another example. So when Obama was president, I went to a meeting in one of the private dining rooms in the Department of Treasury. And it was a meeting where we were talking about a number of issues. One of the things that came up was that black and minority firms outperformed white firms on the management of TARP dollars. OK, now that was really interesting to me that that was that discussion because I then said,

oh, so does that mean they're going to get more? That's right. And everybody went quiet. So I was sent this PDF and this PDF, it came from the National Association of Investment Companies. And this is there was there was a briefing that took place May 23rd, 2019. And it speaks directly to what you have outperformed the mega buyout funds over 4.5 billion with Horizon IRRs, which were 35.5 percent or 10.2 percent higher than the mega buyout funds. What that means is here you have these small buyout funds where you find your black and

minority folk. And then you've got these mega funds, which are white folks. And the black and minority folks are outperforming them by more than 10%. Yet they're still small size, 500 million or less less and they're mega and it and it just and that's just what it goes to and so at some point what what you have to call it what it is and i think what i think the problem is that we we like to dance around all of this stuff and this is where you just got to be hardcore no this, this is what this thing is. That's exactly, you know, I titled my book, Know Your Price.

After the name, after a phrase in my favorite play in the whole world, Two Trains Running by August Wilson. In the play, there's the main character, Memphis, is about to have his property seized through eminent domain by the city of Pittsburgh. And the city of Pittsburgh offers him $15,000. He says, no, I'm not selling my property for $15,000. I know my price. I got my price. And it is a refrain throughout the play. There's another character, Hambone,

who paints a fence for a ham, um, but he never gets his ham. Throughout the play, he goes, give me my ham, give me my ham, until he goes crazy and dies. But there's actually a happy ending to the story. Throughout the play, he goes, give me my hand, give me my hand, until he goes crazy and dies. But there's actually a happy ending to the story. The main character, Memphis, gets $35,000. And the moral of the story is obvious, that you better know you have worth.

But more importantly, you've got to we need to stand up and say, no, this is not right. We're going to manage. And in this case, where I'm glad I heard you speak on this topic on your show before, only 2% of the funds, these mega funds that are managed worldwide are controlled by people of color and women. Only 2%. Now, this is our money. When you're talking about municipal funds, firemen, policeman pensions, things like that, these are our dollars.

In fact, that sector represents the greatest collection of black wealth. Public employees, because that's also the place where we have consistently been able to achieve six-figure salaries in school districts, police, fire, city government, county government, state state government federal government and so if you start comparing that to corporate america and everything else to to to these public sector jobs that's where it happens that's why when they're when republicans come in talk about small government and it leads to massive layoff the public sector or the public sector stuff to privatization, Black people lose out. Absolutely. All day long. And we constantly miss the amount of money and wealth in these. I mean, when we talk about schools and policing, we limit it to like teaching and the jobs component.

But the true wealth building opportunities is in these funds. And we know representation matters. Who you think is going to invest in what kind of companies when you're talking about white or black folk? And so we got to really seize every kind of wealth-building opportunity. But again, this is about our value, not just in terms of money. There you go.

This is about our worth and our morals and things like that. So what we believe in, in terms of our worth and our value, translates into our economics as well. Well, and I also, I think this also speaks to where we have to be psychologically. And then how do you also leverage that? So we talk a lot about know your value in politics, that black vote.

And so therefore, how are we supporting the infrastructure that leverages that? Same thing happens in media. Black people watch TV more than anybody else. Oh, we are absolutely valuable, valuable to networks. But here's what's interesting. When you start talking about numbers, yes, they like our numbers to build. But then all of a sudden, and I can tell you right now, I know this for a fact, this happened in the cable news industry. It reaches a point where you say, oh, now y'all have too many black people. And so now the app, see, so over here you've got the cable news network that wants the largest number possible. And the advertiser kind of wants the largest number possible.

But the problem is if that number has too many black people, then the advertiser goes, well, we don't really value them as much. So therefore, we value them less than whites because whites make more money. So yeah, we're fine with a certain number of black people, but once you cross a certain threshold, then all of a sudden you begin to get devalued. And a lot

of people don't really understand that game is being played because guess what? You have very few African Americans who are running ad agencies or who are in the C-suites. And so basically this structural racism that values black people to a certain level, then begins to devalue them. It all comes into play. You know, and I'm glad you brought up that advertising piece because there are organizations that understand our value. Color of Change, for instance, have when something goes down in terms of whether it's sports or media, they say, hey, you know what?

Well, we'll just cut off our dollars on this particular brand. And you see people immediately change the tune. You know, that there are people out there when the rubber hits the road, they know that particularly in cities that you that one, we should be on every network, every ad, because in cities we are the majority. And so, yeah. Hold on. You. There will be more funds.

Hold on a second. We lost you there. It just cut out. So you said in cities where we're the majority. So go ahead and start that part over. Yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't know that we are the majority if you look at city demographics.

Now, and we also would know that money would flow in terms of ad dollars, in terms of who's represented on television, if it was a true state or if advertisers really wanted to represent populations and dollars and spending. But they don't, and so they have to suppress that value in order to gain some kind of advantage. But you see it visibly every night on every news network. These issues can't possibly be white, that white. The, the, the products that we, that we buy and sell can't possibly be that white. Um, and so we've got to, again, stand up and, and, and, and reclaim our value. So, so, so as, as you were talking about that, and so as I was going through the book as well, looking at these various chapters, and so I thought about the folks who advocate for reparations.

As I'm listening to you, what I got the sense is that reparation doesn't fix this. Because what you're talking about is, what you're talking about here is not really even just an increased investment specifically. So let's just say, let's just say if you had a effort for blacks in housing, what you're still are talking about is how this entire system is set up, that this is really a complete state of mind. And this is a white state of mind that in every single facet of this country, whether we're talking about education, health, housing, politics, sports, media, you name it, what you're really dealing with is a white mindset that the, really just the power of white supremacy, that you are, you're simply less than. And then what that mindset has

now created is a whole swath of African-Americans who also been impacted by that white supremacy view, who themselves say, oh, it's a black business. That tone itself says it's less than, it's not good as then. I've argued that in order for us to really, before we can even deal with dealing with them on the structural level, there has to be a reprogramming of black people to say, no, no, no, no, no. I know my value. So therefore, I'm not going to accept less. And if we don't reprogram ourselves, we're not in a position to be able to really change that system. Your thoughts on both of those two points? Yeah. So one on the reparations issue, I say reparations would help,

but it's not the won't solve all problems. If we gain reparations, if these structures are still in place, that wealth is going to be lost because of the structures in place. So certainly, I do argue for reparations. A lot of people bring up my research in that conversation because I put a dollar amount on what's lost, as an example. But I always tell people, my research is 2017. And that money, that $156 billion just in housing, it's just 2017. Right there. Now, in terms of, you know, so I would disagree a little bit on the wording because throughout the book, I would say that there's nothing wrong with black people that any race of them can't solve. The reason why I say that is that even the mentality is caused by the structures.

Now, I'll give you an example. Right, right, right. I agree. That's right. So, you know, when we see this being played out around COVID, people keep blaming the underlying medical conditions. Well, the underlying medical conditions were caused by substandard housing, was caused by overcrowding, all those different things. So, yes, when you deal with these

structures, you're more likely to create a mindset and behaviors and practices that will accentuate wealth. Because we always got to remember that, like I argue with my financial literacy people all the time, because I say, you know, white people didn't get wealth because they were more financially literate. They got wealth because the federal government gave them wealth. Not because they earned, and it was actually during a period like when in and out,

the federal government said, hey, let me give you homes. Let me give you community. Let me- But also the most wealth in America is also inherited. So the reality is, even if you had white folks who were illiterate financially who owned a home, when they died, they left it to a kid. So it wasn't like that they were so smart that they planned the deal out. It was like, no. And that system allowed them to buy a home in an area that had a higher value than somebody black did.

And so they could have been an illiterate white person who owned property and they simply got handed down. Yet you have black people who are in rural America who own property. Are you talking about President Trump? I'm not talking about all. I mean, I'm just saying that's just the reality. And so you're right. So this whole idea that so there were black people who own property who got chased out of town because of by the KKK who literally left land trying to save their lives. That wasn't they were so smart. It was they had to deal with the KKK. I have this chapter in Know Your Price called Buy Back the Block because a lot of people recognize Tulsa, Oklahoma and Wall Street. But that was happening all over the country. You know, when you talk about Richmond and Rosewood, I mean, this was happening all over the country where, you know, we've shown we can beat the odds, build wealth, and folks come by and tear it down. Now, they may not be burning it down in that way now, but, hey, you can burn down an entire community with bad tax policy.

You can burn down an entire community with bad health policy. And so, yes, it's not coming with torches, but with Charlottesville, notwithstanding Charlottesville. But yes, we are tearing apart black communities with policy every single day that we need to address. See, when I talk about the reprogramming part, and this is where for me, when I look at know your price and know your value. To me, to me, it. So let's say let's say if I'm dealing with what's happening inside of my house and I'm not dealing with anything outside of my house. So before I can deal with what's outside of my house, I have to first inside of my house,

look at myself and say, you're worthy. Yeah, you do. You do have value. And what that then means is that I don't then continue the view. You go to HBCU. So then it becomes, oh, so you go to Prairie View A&M University.

But I'm a graduate of Texas A&M University. So therefore, when I'm talking to black people, all of a sudden, and I experienced this, I literally experienced this. Oh, you go to Texas A&M. I'm sorry. I thought when you said A&M, you meant Prairie View A&M. The tone and the demeanor of black people. It's happened with white people too, but it really is. I mean, I really experienced it with black people. Like, whoa, in fact, let me reverse it. I had a high school teacher, Jack Hayes High School. And I didn't go to, I never took this teacher's class,

but he happened to be married to someone, to the daughter of a woman who attended my church. And I ran to him in our church several times. Andre, no lie, he came up to me and he said, so I heard that you're going to Texas A&M. I said, yeah, that's why I was accepted. He says, well, do you think you should go to Prairie View for a couple of years first? And I go, I'm sorry, what do you mean? He goes, well, I really think you ought to go to Prairie View for a couple of years first

to really, you know, get acclimated to the rigors of college life because of how difficult Texas A&M will be. I then said, so what you're actually telling me is that the education that I've received at this high school in the last four years has not properly prepared me to attend a Texas A&M. And he sort of just, like, stepped back. Then, I'm telling you, Andre, again,

so then our head football coach, Luther Booker, a graduate of Prairie Vietnam University, rest in peace, Coach Booker, he goes, Roland, I understand you're going to Texas A&M. He said, see, that's our problem right there, our best and brightest going to these white schools. And I said, I'm sorry. Are you not the same Coach Luther Booker who gets upset when Nebraska

and Ohio State and University of Texas and Texas A&M doesn't recruit your top football players? I said, so you want your top football players to go to the Division I-A top programs, but you're upset that I'm going to one of those universities, but I don't play sports. So that to me, again, is how we, as African-Americans, assess value ourselves where we have accepted the devaluation of our own institutions. And then we articulate that.

And then, of course, that thing begins to marinate and become in our psyche. And what I'm saying is we've got to stop saying black-owned business, let's stand. Well, you know, I used a black CPA once. It didn't work out. It's some sorry white CPAs. No, it's just some people. So what I argue to black people is that we have to learn to stop devaluing ourselves and feelings if we're second then by saying, no, no, no, no, no. I have value.

But let's be clear, there's been institutions. I work for the Brookings Institution, the top think tank in the world. And a lot of our research is disparity research. We're constantly showing how black folk need to catch up to white folk. inundated with that information. What I do with this, with Know Your Price, is show people, give people information that developers get, that high-profile institutions get, but what we generally project is black people are bad and they need to catch up to white people in order to be good. And so yes, we receive and consume that information. It has to have some impact. So a lot of this book is also challenging researchers

to say, look, if we don't look for strength in institutions, you never get to investing in things. Because again, no one invests in problems. They only invest in strength. And so for me, in using your example, there are institutions, historically black colleges, predominantly white ones, that are both good and bad. And we need to have the information in front of us to say what's good and what's bad. Right, right, right, right. And the good and bad is not based upon you white, you black.

That's exactly right. Right. And that's my point. What I'm constantly telling African-Americans, and I tell people to watch their words. I mean, look, I'm in the business of words. And I hear tone. I hear all of that. So people say, well, you know how we are.

When I had my TV One show, I made it clear to my staff, if any of y'all ever say, well, you know we a black show, you will no longer be employed here. I said, you are not going to create what you just described, this negative connotation of us being a black network. And I can hear it in your tone. Well, you know, we are black network. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. We were a network that caters to African-Americans. And it's a state of mind. And the hard part, Andre, is trying to block what you just described. Block all of that negative stuff out. Or if you do take it in, you use it in a certain way, but it doesn't consume you to now create in your own mind, I am less than.

I am unworthy. Yes, you should pay me 30% less. You're paying that white guy because I'm simply not worth it. Well, but this is the other, what happens when you do value people. And I've been following you and at least the commentary on the DJ on Instagram. And, you know, those should be funneled through various websites, their own personal websites. They should be funneled through networks and other avenues that builds upon existing assets, you know, that we need. And again, I love Instagram.

I use it. But we have networks. We have software. We have software developers that we can actually create better product. So what I learned, like when I listened to you and others who make that argument, it's almost a pitch opportunity, a business opportunity. Yes. opportunity. We can actually be nice or whoever. Hey, this could be a chance to spend something off to develop the next institution, but you've got to be able to see the value in

a Black software developer. You know what? See, again, I'm going back to when you say know your price, valuing Black lives and property in America's black cities. I think it's also acknowledging, wait a minute, we're the tastemakers. We're the trendsetters.

We actually drive this. I mean, the reality is here. 500, well, I think the number was 3.5 million did not go to the babyface, Teddy Riley thing, battle because of Instagram. That's right. They also did not go there because of Swiss and Timberland. They went there because of the product produced by Babyface and Teddy Riley. So if you take that, that means that

the product produced by Teddy Riley and Babyface, that's transferable. That thing could have been on Instagram, Periscope, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube. It could have been anywhere.

And guess what? We would have shifted. Absolutely. There are people who I know who said, I'm my own Instagram. I only got one to watch that particular battle. Nobody else. And what's funny, what's interesting about what you just said is that since I did those videos, my phone has been ringing off the hook of African Americans who are in tech who have such products.

Yeah. I'm having a guy on the show Friday. He has a technology that when you hit pause on a video, then what happens is, if it's set up on your site, when you hit pause on a video then what happens is if you if it's set up on your site when you hit pause on a video it leads to this ad exchange where in a matter of seconds these people are competing for to what commercial plays on your computer in a matter of seconds they've competed the price is being established now commercial plays He hits me up. And as a guy who he knows who I met a couple of times, I don't remember.

And he says, we're a black company. We developed this technology. He said, I have been trying to get to content publishers to use it. I go, well, fine. We'll run a month-long test and see what it does, see how it works, see how it generates. And he was like, wow, my deal is like, but I own the platform. I don't have to go get somebody else's permission. And so I've been having these discussions with other people as well who created platforms. And so he had this, this weekly tech

segment where I'm like, yo, these people exist, But the value has to be in that I value myself enough that I'm willing to use my influence and shift it over here than to only value what you present to me. And what I'm really saying is that I actually have greater value because without my people, ain't no battle on your platform. Absolutely. And I just want to say that

one of the things I try to do in this book is uplift the talent. Because at the end of the day, There you go. The greatest asset is us. Right, but that's it. First of all, you have nothing, you have nothing without the human

asset. That is what makes it. That's exactly right. And so we're great people. We have talent. We have treasure. We need to maximize it. And so what I do in this book is not... I highlight the talent, but I

also show the impediments to that talent. Right. So instead of saying, hey, black home, black community is broken in terms of home. No, our assets are strong, but this is how they are devalued. Our teachers are strong. This is how they are devalued.

Our businesses are strong. This is how they are devalued. And so it gives people sort of the feeling that I am doing the right thing. And people are. But it's our job, I think, as intellectuals to say, hey, here's the information you need so that you can truly stand on your price. But again, and I put this on our community in the sense of the think tank, the research community. We don't give people the kind of information that they can use to show growth.

Well, yeah, and I think that, so it's interesting as you were talking about that, and again, going back, when you talk about know your price and valuing black lives, and I just got to use, I remember in 2000, so I signed with CNN in 2007, and it was very interesting, the reaction, oh my God, you don't see any, you don't see any. I'm like, okay 2007. And it was very interesting, the reaction. Oh, my God, you don't see any, you don't see any. I'm like, okay, I got it. I remember, so 2009, first way, 2000, actually 2008.

2008, I remember it was election night. And I think back, Andre, to the first election night where they barely put me on the air. They didn't see value. That's right. They didn't see value. That's right. They didn't see value. It was like, yeah, we signed him, but he's a radio host out of Chicago. And Andre, I remember sitting there that night, and I'm like, I'm waiting to go on.

And no one told me where to find the exit polling data. They didn't even tell me what time the food was going to be there. In fact, earlier in the day, Sam Feist, then Assistant Bureau Chief, I did a hit with Bill Bennett.

He came down from the fifth floor to the fourth floor to get Bill. Mind you, we're sitting in studios right next to each other i'm talking about that's like a wall and build on the other side so it's like we're right there so he comes to get bill but not me so like what the hell i'm just gonna follow y'all upstairs so we go upstairs andre and he's showing around the set i'm following right behind like what the hell are you gonna show him i'm taking a look it too. And pretty much I was getting a blow off. Okay. So that night, nothing, seven o'clock, eight o'clock. So I'm listening to

the commentary and I'm listening to the commentary and, and they're talking about, well, you know, yes, we know Senator Barack Obama is here in the city. We don't know where he is. And I'm like, he's having dinner with staff and friends right now I sent an email so like every time somebody would say something on the air like we don't know I'm sitting over here this is what's going on and so at one point the producers Stephanie Coutu becomes the booker comes to me she's like oh my god where are you getting this I said from the person sitting next to him at dinner. I said, now if y'all put me on the air, y'all might have this information. Two hours go by, same thing. I'm popping information.

So Andre, they come to me and they say, hey, so Obama wins. The person on the air says, well, we don't know when the senator is going to be arriving here at the convention center. And I'm like, he'll be leaving dinner in 15 minutes. And all of a sudden it's like, we've got to get him on the air. And so then they come to me and they say, hey, do you think you can get Obama to do a beeper with Wolf? A beeper is basically him calling into the control room and doing a phone interview. I'm like, well, we'll see.

I called the Obama people. I said, y'all sumbitches better not do an interview, a beeper with him tonight if I'm not sitting on that set. That's exactly what I said. They said, Rolla, we're doing no interviews tonight. Andre, you're going to love this one. So the next day, he wins Iowa. They put me on the air that night.

I think I was on for a minute and 37 seconds. They put me on the air that night. They put me on the next day. So I had the only interview with Obama after he won Iowa. He did no interviews. His voice was gone, lost his voice. I did an interview with him, only one. So here's what I did, Andre.

I went, Andre. I went but it was for a radio station. I said, I know what I'm going to do. Remember that beeper idea? I'm going to have Obama call the CNN control room. I'm going to stand in

the same spot Wolf stood in last night. And I'm going to do the interview as if it's a TV interview. We're going to use audio for radio. CNN loved it because they were like, we can use the interview. I'm like, sure. So I remember the producer, Patricia DiCarlo, she comes to me, Andre, can we call this a CNN exclusive?

No. You can call it a Roland Martin WVON radio exclusive. You only get access to the interview because I'm a contributor here, but it was really set up for radio. John Klein, the president, tells me, I'm going to put a bug in Sam's ear to get you on the air more. That's how I got on that following Monday, New Hampshire, and was on throughout. But here's the piece. They wanted me in 2009 to leave TV One, Tom Joyner. With the logic, he said, when are you going to give up all the rest of this stuff? And I said, when are y'all going to give me a five-day-a-week show?

Value. See? You said it. Know your price price know your value i'm like so you want me to give up tv1 tom jorner because y'all want me exclusively but you ain't giving me nothing to give that up 2012 the person who suggested 2010 a year later that person gets fired i leave in 2013 still had tv TV One, still had Tom Jordan. In fact, the night of 2008, they got mad because I said, I got to go do two hits on TV One. They

said, what do you mean? You know, we're in 200 countries. I said, yeah, but I got paid by TV One before y'all paid me. See, I did not devalue TV One. The point of this whole story is that throughout the whole deal, I was constantly asserting not just my value, but I was asserting the value of black media. And I did not operate here, Andre, that CNN was so much greater that I could cut Tom Joyner and cut TV One and cut WVON Radio loose because they no longer serve value. They did because there were things that I could do over here that CNN wouldn't do. So I had the best of both worlds. And that to me is what we all have to learn, that we should not, again, devalue what is black because we're doing something over here because if they say no they say yes that's right and what's

important about your story you saw the long range in holding your value there's going to be pain involved you know there's going to be times you're denied rejected it might be less money i mean it might be let look i look hey god Roberts getting $15 million and bless all the brothers and sisters who are on the mainstream networks. But, Andre, I can tell you, I talk to all these people. They're like, Roland, this stuff you can do, we can't do. So for me, the freedom and flexibility of having the platform that I have is more valuable to me than what this check may be. And everybody got to make a decision. So I'm not dissing them at all.

Let me be real clear. And we need people in both places. But the issue there is, to your point, you got to think longer than simply, I could take the short money that's a lot right now, or I could actually build something that serves a different purpose. And increases in value. Like what I say all the time, you know, you build value of something and it may not be there right now. Yeah.

You build it, you grow it, you nurture it. You never know five, you know, sometimes it takes five years down the road. Right. And then you're selling. You have more freedom. You have more power. You know, so I always tell people if you compromise on value now, you're compromising for the future. And there's no gaining back that value.

So always maintain or hold your value or you're playing yourself short in the long run. It's called know your price, valuing black lives and property in America's black cities. Andre Perry, I appreciate it. Oh, thank you for having me. I appreciate you brother. All right. Thanks a lot. All right. All right folks. That's it for us. Don't forget that we want you to join our Bring the Funk fan club.

And I'm going to do this here, so I'm not going to read the names today. I'm going to read those tomorrow. But we did get... She wrote this note here. Keep bringing the funk. We need you, need your continuous help to keep people woke and educated. So Pam, we appreciate that note from you.

This is from Juwan Ellison. Please continue doing what you, what you are doing, bringing the funk with truth straight up. And so Juwan, we appreciate that. Great letter here from Julia Daniels. Julia Daniels, I'm glad you finally provided the address to mail in membership. I'm so old school, I had to get my grandson to assist me.

I do things online. Due to the coronavirus, this was not possible because I was in Odessa, Texas, and he's in Hobbs, New Mexico. I want to thank you for the knowledge and information that you provide on your show. You had the CEO for Operation Hope on your show, and the information obtained, I was able to pass it on to some of the small black businesses in Hobbs. You helped me to help other blacks, and I truly appreciate it. Keep it coming.

May God continuously bless you and your family. Julia Daniels. And so, Julia, I appreciate the note. Folks, if you want to join our Bring the Funk fan club, our goal is simple. To get 20,000 of our followers, people who watch this show on YouTube, Facebook, Periscope, to give us a minimum of 50 bucks a year, $4.19 a month, $0.13 a day,

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I will see you'all tomorrow right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Holla! A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways.

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