#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Black man shot riding ATV, Trump and Maine Gov clash, Citigroup DEI rollback, Will Packer's new book

Episode Date: February 22, 2025

2.21.2025 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Black man shot riding ATV, Trump and Maine Gov clash, Citigroup DEI rollback, Will Packer's new book A white man in Florida is facing murder charges for shooting a black man riding an ATV.  The convict-in-chief and Maine's governor clashed at the White House over an executive order preventing transgender athletes from competing in girls' and women's sports. We will speak with an attorney from the Legal Defense Fund who is challenging three of Trump's executive orders that threaten civil rights and the ability of organizations to provide essential social and health services. And movie producer Will Packer dropped his new project this week. I talked to him about his book, "Who Better Than You? "The Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big. You don't want to miss that conversation.  #BlackStarNetwork partner: Fanbasehttps://www.startengine.com/offering/fanbase This Reg A+ offering is made available through StartEngine Primary, LLC, member FINRA/SIPC. This investment is speculative, illiquid, and involves a high degree of risk, including the possible loss of your entire investment. You should read the Offering Circular (https://bit.ly/3VDPKjD) and Risks (https://bit.ly/3ZQzHl0) related to this offering before investing. Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox http://www.blackstarnetwork.com The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Thank you. Today is Friday, February 21st, 2025. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. I am here in Los Angeles for the NAACP Image Awards. A white man in Florida is facing murder charges for shooting a black man riding an ATV. We'll share those details with you. The twice impeached convicted in chief and the governor of Maine clashed at the White House over an executive order preventing transgender athletes from competing in girls and women's sports. The governor getting back down from the bully was people that attorney from the Legal Defense Fund who is challenging three

of Donald Trump's executive orders at threatened civil rights and the ability of organizations to provide essential social and health services. And movie producer Will Packer dropped his new project this week. I talked to him about his book. Who better than you? The Art of Healthy Arrogance

and Dreaming Be It. Folks, it's time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Let's go. Fine, and when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling, best believe he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling, yeah It's Uncle Roro, y'all Yeah, yeah It's rolling Martin, yeah

Yeah, yeah Rolling with rolling now Martin, yeah. Rolling with Roland now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's Roland Martin now. Martin! You can add riding an ATV while black is an activity that will get you killed. According to police, an ongoing dispute about individuals

riding motorcycles in a Winter Garden, Florida apartment complex prompted a white man to take matters into his own hands, resulting in the death of a black man. This dispute ultimately led to the tragic killing of 32-year-old Jakeem Deshaun Williams, who 57-year-old Ralph Francis Hensel shot on Thursday afternoon. Authorities have provided video evidence showing Hensel

waiting for Williams to pass by on his ATV before firing two shots. Hensel is charged with first-degree murder with a firearm. Folks, so we can roll the video. Let's go ahead and roll it if we have it. This, of course, here is news footage. Okay, this is news footage here of the scene there. All right, so the actual video of the shooting has not been released by police as of yet. Joining us now, Matt Manning, civil rights attorney out of Corpus Christi.

Zobora G, DEIA consultant, employment specialist. Michael Imhotep hosts the African History Network show out of Detroit. Matt, we talk a lot about these stories. And, again, you got people who act as if they want to be law enforcement's judge and jury. And don't be shocked if this guy's lawyers try to somehow claim stand your ground. Yeah, I was just thinking that. I mean, especially because it's Florida and they're just as crazy as we are in Texas with such laws. So you can expect that's going to be part of the argument. But this is going to be a problem for this defendant, particularly because it sounds like he laid

in wait and this was an ongoing issue. So it's interesting we're talking about this now because I was just in a Texas Rangers office about an ago, and he was telling me about a case involving the same kind of situation. And in that case, the person went and armed themselves before they went to confront the person in that particular case. The same is true here. in this apartment complex, it's going to be much harder to claim that you were afraid for your life or that it was a rapidly evolving situation because you were waiting for this young man and you were waiting to confront and or harm this young man because of the alleged motorcycle riding. So I want to know more details. Clearly, I don't know enough yet to truly opine beyond that. But I will say it seems like it's going to be hard to apply stand your ground in a situation where you were waiting for the fight to come to you or seeking to use this force without

this young man even knowing it. Oh, absolutely. And the thing here, this reminds me, Zabor, of the Jordan Neely shooting, where they were playing music at a gas station and this guy decides to shoot at them. Jordan Neely ends up, I'm sorry, not Jordan Neely, my bad. This is the son of Lucy McBath, ends up being killed. I think it's Jordan Davis.

And this guy here, yeah, this sounds very premeditated. If you waited for the guy to pass by, oh, you were planning on killing him. No, for sure. And if you look at the way the news is recording it with the language that they're utilizing, they're pretty much saying like, oh, these motorcycles come all the time. This has been a problem for the community.

So they're trying to find, you know, any reason to say that this was the reason why this individual was shot. And it's like, he's standing outside. You know that this guy's coming and you just shoot. That doesn't, regardless of what your problem was or your issues was with these individuals that road motor cycles through this area, it doesn't give you the right to shoot them. And you can see by the way, the language is that they're trying to make excuses for him like they do other individuals that

look like him when we're not doing what you want us to do. Bottom line is, this is what it means to be black in this country, Michael, and we're living in Trump world where these people are emboldened to do whatever the hell they want to do. Yep. They're emboldened, especially after 1,500 convicted domestic terrorists were released from prison. The January 6th insurrectionists released from prison, even released from prison, even the release from prison, given a pardon, a few given commutations, but basically excused for what they did and called heroes, OK, called patriots.

So, with this case right here, you know, I agree with my co-panelists, especially Matt, it's going to be extremely hard to claim stand your ground if that is—if he's going to try to claim stand your ground. Because if it was a problem, if you felt threatened, why didn't you just go back in your apartment if you felt threatened? Why did you allegedly lay in wait for Jakeem and shoot him? And at the same time, even though the ATV may be noisy, it may be a nuisance, but what threat did it pose to you, okay? And especially what type of deadly threat did it pose to you? So we'll see how this unfolds. But I encourage people to read—there's an article that I reference many times when I teach and deal with issues dealing with race, and it's from the Huffington Post.

It's from maybe 10 years ago. It deals with how white suspects are treated better than black victims, how white suspects are treated better than black victims, how white suspects are treated better than black victims. And in a nutshell, they talk about how the white-controlled media goes out of their way when a white person commits a crime against an African American. They go out of their way to say, hey, this is so much out of their character. But when African Americans are the victims of violent crimes, they dig up their whole background, their drug usage, childhood, things like this, and make it seem like it was their fault that they got killed.

No, again, that's what it means to be black in America. All right, let's talk politics, folks. Today during a bipartisan meeting of governors, the, of course, twice impeached, convicted criminal in chief, Donald Trump, sparred with Democratic main governor Janet Mills over transgender women in sports. Look at this exchange. DONALD TRUMP, Former U.S. Secretary of State for Women's Sports, Two weeks ago, I signed an executive order banning men from playing in women's sports. Many Democrats are fighting me on that.

I hope you continue, because you'll never win another race. And it's just crazy. If you look at what happened with the boxing, if you look at what happened with the weightlifting numbers, where a record that hadn't been broken for 19 years got shattered by, you know, they put up an eighth of an ounce here, an eighth of an ounce there, and it's 218 pounds or whatever it was. And it hadn't been broken in 19 years. And then a guy walks up who transitioned. He transitioned, and he knocked out that record by about 100 pounds. That would be a record not going to be broken again in a long... So we put a ban on it. And to protect women. I mean, the women, if you watch the Olympics, you had two transitioned people that were fighting in the women's boxing. They have women's boxing

category. And if you saw that, it was brutal. What happened to the... The Italian woman was a really good boxer. After one punch, she said, No, no, no more, no more. I've never been hit. It was a left. It was not even a... It was just a left jab. She got hit so hard, she said, I can't do it. They forced her to go out.

No, go out. Go out again. You'll do it. Goes out again, hits, gets hit again. No, no, that's it. She didn't want to die. And it's crazy. But the NCAA has complied immediately, by the way. That's good. But I understand Maine. Is Maine here, the governor of Maine? Are you not going to comply with it? Well, we are the federal law. Well, you better do it. You better do it because you're not going to get

any federal funding at all if you don't. And by the way, your population, even though it's somewhat liberal, although I did very well there, your population doesn't want men playing in women's sports. So you better comply because otherwise you're not getting any federal funding. Every state — good, I'll see you in court.

I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one. And enjoy your life after governor, because I don't think you'll be in elected politics. Maine is one of several states that are defying the executive order issued on February 5th, which prevents transgender athletes from competing in girls and women's sports. I must say, Zobora, that's how you punch a bully in the back. That's how you hit them back. We'll see you in court. And I'm glad she didn't waver and back down. I don't care whether you agree or disagree.

If you're going to have Donald Trump stand there and be an asshole like that, guess what? You fire back and you don't back down from him. No, for sure. You are not following any of our Constitution. You are not listening to the people. You are just doing what you want to do. And she didn't back down.

She used every fact in the situation. He didn't give you all of the truth of the boxer and how they lost. He makes up things and don't have to have anyone fact check him. He's only having the individuals around him that will support his narrative. But if we turn our back at what he's doing when it comes to transgenders, it impacts every other minority that are experiencing these discriminations in all of these places. It's just, he's losing every ounce of success that we, and progression that we've had when it comes to just diversity, equity, and inclusion, and accessibility. And she didn't back down.

And I'm glad that we have some of these individuals that are in government that are willing to fight him because he showed every part of what a bully looks like. Well, if you do it, then I'm going to take the money away. So you're going to use financial abuse on top of everything else you're doing? Like, who gives you the right to be able to do that? And what do you mean that we are the law? No, you are not the law. The Constitution is the law. Well, again, here, I think what's important, Matt, from a fighting point of view, you've got Democratic governors, you've got Democratic attorney generals who should be fighting back.

When you have some-. At the end of the day, what Donald Trump wants to do is he wants to reward red states and penalize blue states. He wants to reward people that voted for him and screw over people who did not. He is not the president of all people. He is not the commander in chief of all people. And that's an absolute fact. And so, frankly, there needs to be a fight. You're seeing these attorneys generals who are filing lawsuits as well. Same thing Republican attorneys general did against Biden. But if I'm going to sit there in a room and this man's going to single me out,

you damn right I'm going to be on record calling his ass out while he had the microphone. Absolutely. And if you looked in that room, there are a lot of people with sheepish faces because they know what he's doing is wholly inappropriate. And I'm so glad Zobora mentioned the Constitution, because the interesting thing that we see right now with the Trump administration and really not even interesting, the disingenuous thing that we see is there. Right here, he says, we're the federal law. Well, the federal law, the 10th Amendment, says basically that anything that the feds don't have as a specific, you recognize that the state of Maine, as an independent sovereignty, has the opportunity to decide what its law is in virtually every respect where it's not precluded or preempted by the federal government. The reason that's important is because the Trump administration is showing, obviously, that they don't know the Constitution well, but beyond that, that they're willing to take the parts that are advantageous to them and discard the rest when they think it's disadvantageous to them. So if you are following the law, the federal law, the Constitution, says that the states have the police powers. They have the right to pass whatever law they think is appropriate

in their state sovereignty to govern whatever issue is not preempted by the feds. And I would imagine that the civil rights law that she was referencing, the governor was referencing, allows the state of Maine, or the state of Maine has the authority to promulgate that law. So being the federal law doesn't matter under the federal Constitution, which says this is something that is firmly in the purview of the states. And what you see is you see this bend towards authoritarianism, towards dictatorial actions that say, oh, when the law advantages me, I'm going to use it as a battering ram.

But when the law disadvantages me, I'm going to say that it doesn't apply, because it doesn't apply to me anymore. And I don't know how long they can keep up that disingenuity before even their own supporters start to say, well, if it's the federal law and we've got to follow it, then you've got to follow it too. I don't anticipate that happens. But that contradiction is what we're seeing at play in this White House in instances just like this, because Maine is allowed to do this. Yeah. I mean, these people act as if state laws don't matter or any number of issues, Michael. And again, for me, I'm just like, yo, you got to swing back. This man, what he likes to do, he wants to punk people.

He wants to abuse them. He wants to slap them around. He wants to disrespect them. And this is exactly how you do it. I'm not going to sit here and kiss your ass. And if you want to sit here and deny federal funding to me because of something, as the governor said, we'll see you in court. Absolutely.

And first of all, it's a number of things here. Number one, Donald Trump is wrong. He's speaking like a dictator. The executive branch of the federal government is not the law, OK? The Congress passes the laws, and it's the courts that interpret the law. So when he's telling the governor, we are the law, no, you're not the law, number one.

Number two, I thought the Republican Party was the party of states' rights. Didn't they always talk about states' rights, Roland? This is a states' rights issue. Hell no. They only believe in states' rights when they control it. I know my memory is going bad, but I thought they were the state's rights party. Now all of a sudden, this is the party of the federal government overstepping its authority.

Now, keep in mind, all of this is a distraction from the fact that Donald Trump has not brought down the price of groceries. That punk ass executive order that he signed banning transgender athletes in competing in sports, things like this. And when you look at—New York Times had an analysis on this. And out of 510,000 athletes competing at the college level, there were fewer than 10 who were publicly identified as transgendered. And this is coming from Charlie Baker, the NCAA president. So he would probably know, okay? So this is all a smokescreen. So yes, see him in court. And then also he said, you're not going to win re-election. Well, she's term limited, just like he is. So she's not going to run again. This whole thing was a BS smokescreen coming from a convicted felon that told over 30,000 lies. All right. So and then I encourage people to watch Governor Pritzker of Illinois. He gave an excellent speech on Thursday where he talked about how Nazis dismantled democracy in a little more than 50 days, OK?

And it's important, when you study the history of the Nazis coming to power in Germany, they targeted marginalized groups like the LGBT community. They targeted Afro-Germans. They targeted the disabled, OK? This is the same playbook that Donald Trump and his brother from another mother from South Africa, Elon Musk, are playing. They're going after marginalized groups. Transgender people make up tenths of 1% of the population of the U.S. So this is a smokescreen. Well, but again, and again, what they're doing is it's all about a culture clash. And again, it's the whole notion of I'm a dictator.

And again, the way you respond to a dictator is you punch them in the mouth. Folks, this is happening on so many different fronts. The Legal Defense Fund and Lambda Legal filed a federal lawsuit challenging three of Donald Trump's executive orders, which threatened civil rights and the ability of organizations to provide social and health services. Folks, this is an important issue because, again, what you're seeing is you're seeing them trying to craft policies that are detrimental to marginalized citizens. Demetria McCain is the director of policy with the Legal Defense Fund. She joins us now from Washington, D.C. Let me say this here,

because we're about to do this interview. So in about three minutes, what's going to happen is I'm going to actually log off. I have to do Ari Melber's show on MSNBC. Michael will continue the conversation with the panel, and then I'll come back. So just letting you all know that right now. So Demetria, walk us through the basis of this lawsuit. Certainly happy to do so. And thank you for having me on, Roland. As you mentioned before, this lawsuit that we challenged is challenging three of the executive orders that President Trump signed, all related to diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, and transgender people. And so in the lawsuit, we claim that the executive orders will severely, severely limit the

organization's abilities to actually provide some critical social and health services, such as HIV treatment, fair housing, counseling, equal employment opportunities, affordable credit, civil rights protection, and many, many others. And so this would harm countless of people across the United States, including Black people, other people of color, women, LGBTQ plus people, people with disabilities, just as was referenced earlier, people living with HIV. And so the lawsuit was filed on behalf of three nonprofit organizations. Some of them might be familiar with. National Urban League was one, National Fair Housing Alliance, as well as the AIDS Foundation of Chicago.

And so it goes on in the lawsuit to claim that the administration is actually violating the organization's rights to free speech and due process rights, as well as engaging in actual intentional discrimination by using and enforcing the anti-equity orders, all right? Now, these three orders that we're challenging, they do some things. They terminate equity-related grants, all right, and they forbid federally funded entities from engaging in diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility programs, and from recognizing the existence of transgender people. And so together, the orders actually reverse actual decades and decades of civil rights

progress, folks. And also they pose an existential threat to organizations that actually advocate for civil rights and the rights of transgender people, people who are actually trying to help people get shelter and have services. So really critical rights that are impacted here in the lawsuit. And so we're hoping to get a favorable decision, but we just filed it this week. But again, that's what their goal is. I mean, their goal is to actually,

I did this piece, you know, shortly after inauguration saying MAGA's goal is to defund black America. They want to attack the civil rights and the economic rights infrastructure. Right. That's exactly right. I mean, and we know a lot of the work, for instance, that the National Urban League does, right? So they are the largest historic civil rights and urban advocacy organization that's committed to elevating the standard of living for Black Americans, as well as other underserved people. And also, they're very, very out front about their support for people in the LGBT community. And so the work they do really tries to empower people economically, right? So just to your point, Roland, to disarm that

is really hurting swaths, swaths, swaths of our people. Okay. Demetria, this is Michael M. Hotep. So, before I go to the panel with questions, one of the questions I had, because I've been following this and I read some of the executive orders, we know that Donald Trump rescinded Executive Order 11246, which is affirmative action, dating back to President Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1965, can—and oftentimes we hear in the African-American community, well, the number one beneficiary of DEI are white women, OK? And we don't benefit that much from DEI, so it doesn't hurt the African-American community. There's an article from blackenterprise.com that talks about how only 4 percent of diversity, equity and inclusion jobs go to African-Americans. So can you talk about how, maybe more specifically, the type of harm that will happen to the African-American community if we can't get these executive orders from

Trump rescinded, when it deals with equity grants, when it deals with job opportunities, economic opportunities, things of that nature pertaining specifically to the African-American community. YAMICHE ALCINDOR. Absolutely. Happy to do so. So let's think about—talked about the National Urban League, right? Let's talk about the National Fair Housing Alliance. The National Fair Housing Alliance is the country's only national civil rights organization that is dedicated solely to eliminating all forms of housing and lending discrimination. If anybody's been reading the newspaper in the last, let's say two years,

you've heard about appraisal bias. This is one of the things that they focus on, right? And that appraisal bias is really, as I call it, appraisal discrimination, is really targeted at Black households, okay? And so if you take away the funding of this organization, you're crippling them from being able to do that type of work, okay? And so they've been doing longstanding outreach on these types of things, housing counseling that they provide people. They're looking at artificial intelligence as it relates to fair housing and housing discrimination. I would say out of the categories of fair housing complaints that are filed with the federal government, for instance, disabilities up there, most complaints are disability.

But the second biggest group relates to race, race based on fair housing discrimination, right? And so if we cut off the legs of organizations like this, because they are actually pushing diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility, then we're cutting off a lot of the supports that they give the Black community. Okay. And I had another follow-up question. When you talk about equity grants, okay, give us more information, more details. What exactly are equity grants? How have these grants been able to help African-American organizations, things like that? Because a lot of times when people don't know

that different policies exist, they don't miss it until it's gone. They feel the impact when it's gone, but don't really realize what it is, you know, before it's taken away. So give us some more details on what exactly are equity grants and how do they help African-American organizations? Well, if we think about it, I know you mentioned earlier, people felt as if in the employment space, right, that Black people were not benefiting that much. But if you think about it, there are organizations who simply because of historic barriers, historic discrimination, simply are not able to get some of those opportunities that a lot of other organizations get, right? Because let's say, for instance, their focus is the Black community or

their focus is some other marginalized community, right? And so grants and contracts, I will say, often, not often, but sometimes do really go to people who are going to target those communities. Okay. And so that's what I meant earlier when I said you kind of cut off the legs of the organizations that are specifically trying to help the black community and other of this underserved Matt. Start with the attorney on the panel. Matt, did you have a question for Demetria? I sure do. I first have a comment. Thank you for the good work you're doing. This is not easy work, and I appreciate y'all carrying the mantle. couple questions in that respect. So I'm interested particularly in the speech and how it's framed. I haven't read the lawsuit, of course, but is it essentially like a viewpoint discrimination argument, basically that because they're advocating for DEIA, the federal government is infringing on their speech, or is there some other way that that's being framed? And as it relates to the Fifth Amendment, I thought that was really interesting. That's where I thought you were going to go with the due process. Is there precedent in history in terms of the federal government being stopped or enjoined from certain actions that are comparable to this under the Fifth Amendment?

I'm asking because I haven't seen many examples, and I'd love to see kind of some of the precedent. I'll tell you that I'm not prepared for the giving examples at the very moment. But to your first question, which I believe was about the free speech piece of it, absolutely. Because, see, these organizations that are plaintiffs in this case, they're focused on particular communities, particular type of discrimination, particular types of things that are exactly the things that the Trump administration is going after. Right. And so it's that's the viewpoint that they have, that they share and they espouse, they publicly espouse what their mission is and what their points are. Right. And so when we talk about free speech and the First Amendment, that gives you a sense of kind of what's at stake here. Okay, Matt, did you have a follow-up question?

Yeah, actually, I did have a follow-up question. And, Demetria, I'm sorry if I'm going too into the weeds, but I'm really interested in this. So, you know, obviously, if this were between, let's say, two members of different states, you might use the 14th Amendment to say equal protection, right? Is there a corollary under the Fifth Amendment that allows you to say essentially that these organizations that are the plaintiffs are being treated differently than organizations that are not espousing viewpoints that are offensive to the Trump administration? I mean, not under the due process clause, but I mean, under an equal protection theory, is there a way to allege it that way?

Well, I don't want to go outside the four corners of the complaint since it's just pending, and everybody's welcome to take a look at that on our website. But I mean, if you're talking about comparing these complainants to others who have others, let's say United Way, for example, and I don't want to point them out specifically, but say a group like that, that helps everybody, right, without specifically focusing on issues of race. Those types of organizations are not likely to have their funding put at risk or taken away from them versus these types of organizations. So there's a big difference in how these organizations who espouse the need for civil rights, right, and the elimination of discrimination versus those who are silent on it. Big, huge difference there. Okay. Thanks, Matt. Next, I want to go to Zobora. Zobora, did you have a question for Demetria? Yeah, I do a lot of work with individuals with disabilities. And just to think of how some of

those equal protections are being impacted under how these executive orders are impacting those equal protection rights when it comes to things like the work opportunity tax credit, different research that for research grants that find out how individuals with disabilities or how individuals with other minorities are being impacted by this. Do you think that this lawsuit will allow other individuals to be able to file lawsuits of their own? And how can we ensure that we are supporting them in the best ways that we can? And how much protection do they have under the ADA laws to protect them, to present a case that will allow them to really combat these executive orders.

I tell you, I'm so glad you touched on that. And I really appreciate your comments that you made it earlier. I would definitely plus up those. So, you know, the ADA, the Americans with Disability Act is what she was talking about, folks. There's the American Disabilities Act. There's Title VII, Title VI, all of these civil rights acts. Honestly, folks, you know, there's a lot of misinformation and falsehoods that the president is spreading about what power he has with the pen

under quote-unquote laws that he's creating, right? These statutes have been on the books for absolute decades. And to the extent that these laws have protected people in the past, they should be protecting people in the future. And so while the four corners of this particular lawsuit speak to the issues I mentioned earlier, there are lots of other organizations looking at filing other types of lawsuits on other types of bases. And so when you talk about whether or not this particular lawsuit would protect people with disabilities, first, let's stop and say there's intersectionality, right? There are plenty of Black people, Black families across America who have a disability, right? And sometimes it impacts

our people more than others. And so when we are talking about, in this case, making sure that organizations that support people with those issues, that is the way that that would be helpful. But in terms of somebody protecting their individual rights under something like the American with Disabilities Act, that's yet to be seen. We'll have to see how that works out. And we have to see what the courts do, right? So far, I would give people a little bit of encouragement that we've seen some good decisions come out, some of these district courts, but let's see what the courts do. Absolutely. All right, Zoboro, thanks for your question. Now, Demetria, first of all, you mentioned your website. Give everybody your website, please. Sure. N-double-A-C-P-L-D-F-dot-O-R-G. When you go in there on the front page, you'll be able to see a statement about the case,

and it'll link to the actual complaint, as well as a shortened version to give people a little summary about the complaint, if you don't want to read the whole complaint. Okay. Now, when we talk about the disabled community, people with disabilities in America, you mentioned some of the civil rights legislation that deals with disabilities. Approximately how many people in America are classified as disabled or have a disability? And if you know, what percentage of that total number are made up of African-Americans? You know what? I am not prepared with those numbers. Happy to get it to you. Okay. That's fine. We are overrepresented. Let me just put it that way. And you know why, though, right? Because

we're overrepresented when it comes to health care, right? Not having health care, not having health insurance, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Not having health care, not having health insurance. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like health insurance. So now, from my understanding and reading like various job applications, things like that, is diabetes classified as a disability? Having diabetes? I don't think I'm the right the right guest to answer that question for you. All right. No problem. No problem. Another question that I had was I was looking at a statement from Janae Nelson from the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. false and longstanding stereotypes that Black people and other underrepresented groups lack skills, talent, and merit, willfully ignoring the discriminatory barriers that prevent a true meritocracy from flourishing. So, when we saw Donald Trump sign these executive orders, like rescinding Executive Order 11246,

and on day one in office, he also rescinded Executive Order 1395 that was put in place on the first day of the Biden-Harris administration. And that dealt with looking at how systemic racism permeated throughout all federal government departments, and they came up with 300 policies to deal with that and put that in place. Can you talk a little bit about this whole myth that somehow black people are not qualified when it comes to having jobs, but automatically white people are automatically qualified, whatever it is? They never talk about, well, what hit on unqualified white people. Can you break that down for a minute, please?

Absolutely. And, you know, this whole concept of quote-unquote meritocracy is, again, smoke and mirrors, and it's absolutely not true and not factual. When we look, though, the reality is we look at the—this is why we need diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility programs and initiatives. When we look at the unemployment rate, just looking at it from January of this year, right, the unemployment rate for Blacks is still higher than that of whites, right? So for whites, it's around three-something percent. For Blacks, it's six-something percent. But let me tell you something. That is not because we're lazy. That is because we're not capable. That is because of the historic barriers that we have dealt with. There's no secret to that. And they want you to believe

that it's simply because of our lack of trying and that we're not qualified. Well, let me tell you something. We are qualified. When you look at the numbers and percentages of folks who are graduating some of our HBCUs, they're huge numbers. They're huge numbers. So we are sometimes more qualified than the next white person.

So that is absolute fallacy, absolute fallacy. And we see this being perpetuated, this meritocracy. And they'll invoke Dr. King, even at the Black History Month celebration that took place yesterday. Alveda King, Dr. King's niece, was there. When—and on day one, when Donald Trump was doing these executive orders, rescinding 78 executive orders from President Biden, he said, we're going to bring—we're going to make Dr. King's dream come true. But Dr. King was talking about dismantling white supremacy and racism in America, OK? So give us, oh, did you, were you about to say something?

I was going to say, and even when we do get these positions, we are still making 20% less than the white person who has the same level of education that we do. And that's, that's data that came straight from national Bureau of economic research. Right. Yeah. So, you know, on last Friday's show when I was on last Friday, I was in Roland Martin and I brought up Black Women's Equal Pay Day. And Black Women's Equal Pay Day takes place sometime in August. And it deals with the fact that it takes African-American women 20 months to make—on average,

20 months to make the same amount of money that it took the average white male 12 months to make the same amount of money that it took the average white male 12 months to make. And African-American women on average lose out on about $1 million in lost earnings over their working career, approximately about 40 years. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. So, I know Roland is on his way back. Give us that website again. Sure. NAACPLDF.org. And let me just invite your listeners also to take the time to look at our report that we did when we analyzed Project 2025. They'll find that on our website as well. We analyze it from the perspective of Project 2025 as it relates to the Black community. So that's going to—obviously, we know already that that's a roadmap for what's to come in this administration and what we've seen already, but it really takes it from the perspective of the Black community.

Absolutely. And I did look at that. I've been on a few panels over the past few months dealing with Project 2025, and I did look at that information as well. And that was one of the questions I wrote down to ask, you know, dealing with. We know there's been about 60 policies that Trump has put in place that come from Project 2025. But dealing with these executive orders, how does that—if you can give me—let me know quickly, maybe about 30 seconds. How does that line up with Project 2025, these various executive orders he's put in place? Absolutely lines up.

I mean, let's take the Department of Education, right? 2025, these various executive orders he's put in place. Absolutely lines up. I mean, let's take the Department of Education, right? Because everybody's worried about how they're trying to dismantle the Department of Education. A lot of that is straight from the Project 2025 script. I call it a script, right? And so the things we're seeing, obviously, we know the horrible things going on with federal workers as it relates to the federal government. But the things we're seeing, there's a letter that they issued last week, the Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights, full of falsehoods relating to the SFFA case, which directly deals with diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility

in higher education. And they try to blow that out and make it act like it addresses all types of sectors. It does not. It is an absolute falsehood. That's how they try to distract us. All right, then. I am back. Can y'all hear me? Demetria, can you hear me? We can hear you. All right, cool. So, Zobora and Matt, y'all got y'all questions in? Yes. Yes. All right, we're good. Well, Demetria, we appreciate it.

Please, y'all keep up the good work. All right, stay tuned. Appreciate having me on. Thank you. Bye-bye. All right, thanks a lot. Folks, we're going to go to a very quick break. We come back lots more to talk about the craziness happening Thank you. Bye-bye. the work that we do. Join our Bring the Funk fan club. Your dollars are critically important for us to do what we do. And so please support our work. If you want to give to us via cash app, use the Stripe QR code. You see it right there on the screen. If you're listening, what you can do

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Abolition focus. Should we aim for reform or abolishing the entire system? Kamone Felix lets us know how much possibility lies in abolition. That is such a radical image because it offers the suggestion, a suggestion that we already know to be true, which is that we have what it takes to take care of each other and to take care of ourselves. Watch us on the Black Star Network, so tune in to the other side of change.

-♪ I'm alone... Hey, what's up, y'all? I'm Devon Franklin. I'm Dr. Robin B, pharmacist and fitness coach, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. -♪ I'm alone... I'm alone... Well, when you own Donald Trump, good things happen. Elon Musk is celebrating another legal victory regarding employment practices at SpaceX. The Justice Department has decided to drop its lawsuit against the company,

which accused SpaceX of routinely refusing to hire refugees and asylees. Initially, the DOJ claimed that SpaceX incorrectly stated that it could only hire U.S. citizens or green card holders, which was inaccurate. However, rather than pursuing the case in court, the Department of Justice has chosen to dismiss it with prejudice, meaning it cannot be refiled in the future. Musk referred to the lawsuit as insane lawfare and shared evidence in the form of a government job listing that also required

U.S. citizenship. Well, this is no shock this happened, Zobor, because again, when you give almost $300 million and Donald Trump allows you to do whatever you want to, of course all of the cases. And remember, he was investigated

by 11 different agencies and all of those are mysteriously disappearing. He's not, they don't care about what's right or what's legal or if this is equitable. They are doing everything to line their pockets. You can see that with the Senate vote. Like, they're doing everything to make sure that billionaires have more money and people of color, people with disabilities, people of any marginalized population or any area where there has been proven to have disparities are not being

treated fairly. He don't care. And he's not going to hire anybody. He's not going to fight any of these cases. Every time a case is coming, they're getting dismissed. You can look at the mayors, how his case was just indefinitely. We're not going to talk about that corruption. So everyone in this administration has some felonies. Well, a lot of them, I'm not going to say everyone, but a lot of them have felonies. A lot of them have criminal records. A lot of them are not, have been charged with not doing proper hiring practices. And they have been utilizing these individuals that have not been green card holders or permanent residents for all of this time. So all of a sudden now it's a problem because you're on this side. So you can,

you know, take advantage of these individuals and not pay them what they're worth and treat them with no dignity for humanity. But then you want to, you know, ride the side of, let me figure out how I can make sure that I'm not going to take care of this lawsuit that was clearly you doing something illegal and clearly you should pay the consequences. But because you're a billionaire and because you have all of this money and bought this election, his son told you he's the president. You know, that man's not the president. Let him get up. So Elon is doing what Elon do. And Trump is just sitting there. And the American people voted this man in. At least I'm part of the 92 percent that did not vote for me. do, and Trump is just sitting there, and the American people voted this man in, at least

I'm part of the 92 percent that did not vote him in. Well, listen, this is all this is, Matt. And the bottom line is you're not getting somebody who is, I mean, Elon is going to get away with anything. And so, look, he's rewarding himself with a contract. And at the end of the day, his $300 million was money well spent, because he has the run of the country. Yeah, exactly. I mean, he bought an election and bought the candidate and bought a presidency. I mean, functionally, this is self-dealing. And this is what I find to be so incredibly difficult for me to understand, that people who claim to be Trump supporters don't seem to ever just acknowledge.

And I don't know if that's always that they're just obtuse or if they purposely or they really just genuinely don't understand. But for all the rhetoric about draining the swamp and the corruption and all of that, how is it not per se corrupt that a person who's in an unelected position given basically unfettered power has the ability to kill actions looking into his action? That is like per se corruption. That's the kind of thing they would point to some other nation and say justifies our involvement in that nation's domestic relations, right? They would say this is anti-democratic for the government of whatever country to have some actor in it who is enriching their own pocket, who is killing, you know, legal investigations into their business practices, and who's enriching themselves

by virtue of their government position. But that's exactly what we have here. And for some reason, that is not proof positive of the corruption and the swamp that needs to be drained, if you ask the Trump supporters. And we know that they're living in a bizarre world, as we all are now these days. But I don't understand how this is so brazen and this is not something that smacks them in the face with the contradiction, because that's what we're seeing every day. You're seeing government overreach. I think Michael said that perfectly in one of the earlier segments. The federal government that they decry being too big is consistently overreaching into the

purview of the states. A person working in the government who's not elected is given awesome power not only to go into the Treasury and get all kinds of codes, but to fire the people who are working in a nuclear agency and not even have the wherewithal to recognize they probably need to keep those jobs. I mean, that's terrifying, but it's also exactly what they claim to be standing against. And for some reason, they seem to be completely fine with it going on. So, as time goes on, we will see precisely how far those boundaries will be pushed out, because that's what Musk and Trump are doing right now. They are continuing to test the waters

to see precisely how much they can get away with. That's all it is. And I say this, Michael, and it's very simple. These oligarchs are going to rape and pillage America, pure and simple. And Donald Trump has no problem with it because that's what he's doing. Absolutely. That's what he's doing. And, you know, raping and pillaging. I mean, this is what they do. We're going to have to stand up to this. And this is an example of how elections have consequences. And this was dealing with the civil rights division of the Department of Justice also. And I just want people to note that the Department of Justice has

stopped their civil rights investigations, like cold case investigations. You're going to see them stop doing investigations when it comes to civil rights violations, when it comes to schools, things of this nature. But what they are going to do—and this is in Project 2025—is they're going to investigate what they call violations of white people's rights, OK, violations of white people's civil rights. You're going to see this whole thing turn with this white supremacist administration. So, Elon Musk is getting his money's worth. But at the same time, there is growing resentment in red districts, as we saw,

I think it was yesterday, Representative McCormick's district in Georgia, the town hall meeting that he had. And you're starting to see this resentment in red districts. We're seeing farmers fearing that they won't get paid for work that they did, dealing with federal contracts, because you've had contracts that have been revoked because of Elon Musk and Donald Trump. So this is going to get worse, and more resentment and more outrage is going to start coming from Republicans. Well, again, I'm just, listen, y'all, you got to allow certain things to go on. And they're happening. You can't stop them. and this is real simple okay all of these people out

here who are getting screwed getting jacked you're gonna it's gonna keep happening and you can keep whining and complaining but i'm just letting y'all know it's gonna happen so oh well oh well and then you're gonna be it's gonna be more maggot, y'all, let's go to Alabama, where an Alabama grand jury is calling for the entire Hanceville Police Department to be shut down, characterizing it as a rampant culture of corruption. Y'all, this is unbelievable.

The grand jury stated that the department has operated more like a criminal enterprise than a legitimate law enforcement agency. Five officers, including the police chief, have been indicted on charges ranging from evidence tampering to ethics violations. During a news conference, Coleman County D.A. Champ Crocker presented the grand jury's findings. Watch this.

Based upon the investigation by the State Bureau of Investigation, we the grand jury find that the Hantsville Police Department is a particular and ongoing threat to public safety. There is a rampant culture of corruption in the Hantsville Police Department, which has recently operated as more of a criminal enterprise than a law enforcement agency. The Hantsville Police Department has abused public trust by its failure of oversight, lack of leadership, and negligent training and hiring. The Hantsville Police Department has failed to account for, preserve, and maintain evidence, and in doing so, has failed crime victims and the public

at large this evidence is unusable we the grand jury have zero confidence in the Haskell Police Department's ability to maintain a jail or to meet basic health and safety needs of jail personnel or inmates? I... Matt, this is Alabama. You know they gotta be real bad, dog, for a DA in

Alabama to say this. Oh yeah, that's a lot of layers to this onion. We don't know nearly enough yet, but look. I don't know nearly enough yet. But look, look, look, look. Yeah, I don't know where that came from, but I like that. I'm going to use that again. But in any event, check it out. Hansville, Alabama, in 2023, had 3,300 people. So that means their police department is probably 10 officers or less.

So that means presumably at least half of those officers were on some crook stuff, right? Which means what happened is this dispatcher—we read this article—this dispatcher apparently died of a drug overdose. And I suspect, as you see from the article, what they're saying is basically they were probably selling drugs out of that police department because everyone had access to that evidence locker. And while I kind of chuckle about that, I mean, it's terrible and it's terrifying that the people who are entrusted with, you know, promulgating the law and rather protecting us under the law are obviously not following the law. But on top of that, you can't tell me that this DA in this county hadn't heard rumblings of this because this is such a small police department. I bet you there have been some issues between that police department and the DA's office not wanting to take cases because of chain of custody issues. And lo and behold, you've got this rampant corruption. But the final thing I want people to take from this that's very interesting is the way the grand jury process is actually supposed to work, at least under Texas law,

is you take evidence to the grand jury, and the grand jury decides whether they want to promote or suggest charges. Now, the way it often happens is a prosecutor goes in and says, I think it's aggravated assault. I think it's this crime. I think it's that crime. And the grand jury rubber stamps it by issuing a true bill. Okay. But hyper-technically, the way it's supposed to work is evidence is supposed to be presented to them, and they decide whether they want to recommend a certain charge via an indictment. The reason that's important is for this DA to be reading that a grand jury sent out something saying this police department is a menace, it is something that is a threat to the safety of our citizens is crazy, because you normally don't have a grand jury basically issuing a press release. You normally have a grand jury issuing

a true bill or a no bill, and that's it. But for them to send out this statement is a huge statement to what was going on in that city. And I suspect we will learn there was a lot more behind the veil, behind the door of that evidence locker? Zabor, this is a 92% white town. I can't remember ever hearing a DA come out and call out a police force in Alabama like this. I mean, they were doing some straight up breaking bad stuff. Yeah, definitely. They had to be worse than the training day police, right? They had their own little rings going on. And you know, if this is what they're putting out there on the news and

letting everybody know, it's so much that we don't know. And can you imagine what's going on to the black individuals that are facing and coming up against these cops when they're in our neighborhoods? Because if they are corrupt against their own people, you can't even think that they would give a black person a fair shot. So it is so much corruption, so deeply intertwined in every part of that criminal justice system, in that police system. There's no way to get away from that. I can just imagine what kind of things that are not being said and how much they're trying to hide and protect from the public actually finding out for DA to come out and say those

words and to stand against what they would consider their own. I just imagine. I want to know what else y'all doing over there, because I'm sure it would make great TV. Michael? I want to know which one of these white men were the unqualified DEI hires. That's what I want to know, number one.

OK, that's the first thing. Number two, when you watch the video, because ABC News has an article on this, right, they show somebody crawling through the wall that accesses the evidence room. And this is what DA Crocker is alleging, how people, at least one of the ways that they access evidence in the evidence room, as well as allegedly drugs. Okay? So, yeah, this is—now, once again, this doesn't surprise me. This is a small town in Alabama. I mean, you have hundreds of small towns like this that are just rampant

with corruption. I mean, I'm not saying this is right, but in the South, in Alabama, former Confederate state, this does not surprise me. So it's good that this is being exposed. And they're calling for this police department to be abolished. Okay, so I agree with that. And it's going to be interesting to see the type of information that comes out with this. But at the same time this is happening, Roland, you know, the Department of Justice announced, U.S. Department of Justice announced on Thursday that they are deleting the database that tracked federal police misconduct. You know the one Joe Biden put in place that was originally the ideal of Donald Trump? They announced that they deleted that database. That was the result of the George Floyd protests.

So hey, the fight is on. It is indeed on. All right, y'all. Okay, let me be real clear. I don't like talking about the children of politicians. But when you are the twice impeached, criminally convicted felon in chief, Donald Trump, and you are attacking DEI, and you are blaming DEI for the plane crash at Reagan, at DCA in Washington, D.C., that left 67 people dead, when you are blaming all these things on DEI hires, when you're talking about merit and all this sort of stuff, I came across this story that I found to be fascinating.

So could y'all please pull up the photo of Kai Trump? I said y'all in group me, so please pull that up. So Kai Trump is Donald Trump's granddaughter. This is a photo of Kai Trump and her father, Donald Trump Jr. Okay? So the stories came around. Y'all are going to love this here. So the story came around. So there's a very prestigious golf tournament.

It's a prestigious golf tournament that happens every year. It is the 2025 Junior Invitational at Sage Valley. It's in South Carolina from March 19th through the 22nd. OK, so what they do is they invite 36 of the top male junior golfers in America. And then they invite 24 of the top female junior golfers in America. So this is like a major deal. So the story came out that Charlie Woods, who is Tiger Woods' son, is going to be playing in this tournament. And then they announced that Kai Trump is going to be playing in this tournament. Now, Kai Trump signed a golf scholarship

for the University of Miami. So, Matt, Zobora, and Michael, I'm gonna, for each of you, can y'all guess the junior golf ranking of Kai Trump? So Matt, I'll start with you. Just give me a number. What do you think? And I told you, this tournament picks the top 24 female junior golfers in America. Matt, where do you think Kai Trump ranks in that? Number 240. Okay. So control room, I want you all to make a note.

So Matt said number 240 got zobora what say you well it's a prestigious event you know the best of the best are there so she gotta be in the top 20 so i'm gonna say 21 okay okay got it all Got it. All right. So, Zobora. So, Matt says, Matt, you said 240, right? 240. 240. 240. Zobora said 20.

Michael, give me a number. How many people are in this golf tournament? Okay. I told you. They picked the top. They picked the top 24 junior golfers in America. Okay. I missed that number.

I think she's at the bottom. I think she's dead last. Give me a number. 24. It is the top 24. Hold on. Give me a number. 24? It is the top 24. Hold on. So, Zabora, her number is 20. Matt's number, sorry, Michael's number is 24.

And Matt's number is 240. Control room, could you please show the next graphic? Come on, guys. I sent y'all. Okay. This is a Sports Illustrated story, folks. Y'all, she is the number 2,342nd ranked girls varsity golfer in America. Let me say that again. Matt said, Zabor says she was 20th. Michael said 24th. Matt says she was 240th. Matt, you were the closest because she's about 2,000 spots lower

than what you just said. So isn't it hilarious that the DEI actually stands for Donald, Eric, and Ivanka because they're Donald's daughter and Eric and Ivanka's niece is the epitome of white privilege in that she is selected to play in this prestigious tournament, not because she has proven her worth on the golf course. She literally has no business being in this tournament. That means that there are, so if you did, let me just do the math. Let's see, 2342. So let me see right here.

So let's see here, 2342. Hmm, 23 42 minus 24. That means that means that there are 2,317 people. Better than her. That means that if you are the 25th ranked golfer through the 2,341st ranked golfer, Kai Trump just took your spot. I thought we were...

Because of her last name. And again, I'm not... I don't want to single out children to politicians, but I do think it's fair Since her grandfather has been talking about merit and earned and all of this here his granddaughter should never have been selected for this tournament because There are more than two thousand 300 players better than her.

So, Bora, go ahead. I thought we were, you know, getting back to merit-based opportunities. I thought that was the goal, right? That's the executive order her grandfather put in place. But she's not merit-based at all, don't have the skills, don't have the qualifications. You haven't did the work, but you get to skip the line.

But we are counseling out merit-based opportunities, and we are getting rid of diversity, equity, and inclusion. But you're the white woman. So because you're a woman, you really wore the DEI selection, right? Because you didn't qualify. You don't fit. You didn't fit the bill. And you took the spot away from someone that may look like you

that was more qualified. But we want to get rid of all of DEI hires and all of those merit-based opportunities, except for your family? How does that work? Hmm. I'm just saying.

I mean, it's right there in front of us, Michael. Right there. All we hear is, oh, DEI, DEI, merit, you unqualified. Got a thing to say, Donald Trump, your daughter about your granddaughter don't trump junior and listen i listen i got nine nieces i love my nieces but if they ain't qualified they ain't qualified and i'm gonna tell you right now if they if if one of my nieces got selected for a golf tournament because they are my niece and they were were 2,342nd rank, I would be like, niece, sit your ass down.

Sit your ass down and go to the driving range. Yeah, you know, that's why this whole attack on diversity, equity, and inclusion, the attack on affirmative action, is just a cover for white supremacy and racism and trying to reset the racial reckoning that took place in this country after the death of George Floyd. And any time there are periods of time when African-Americans make any type of advancements or perceived advancements, there's always a white backlash. And this is a severe white backlash to all of that. And then at the same time, you have this glaring example of white privilege.

This is what this is. This is white privilege. And the same people who talk about DEI and affirmative action will never take away the legacy programs at colleges for wealthy people, for people who graduated from their college so their children can get in, things like that. That's affirmative action for white people right there. And if you want a merit-based economy, if America was truly a merit-based economy, nobody would be more successful than African-Americans,

because who worked harder than a slave for 246 years, largely for free? Who worked harder than a sharecropper? Who worked harder than a domestic? So if America was truly a meritocracy, African people would be the most successful people in the history of this country. I mean, Matt, I'm just saying. I think it's hilarious. And, again, I just did Ari Melber's show on MSNBC, and I brought this up. And let me tell you how stupid so many people are. Some dude, he literally sends me an article talking about how she's ranked number one, but he's quoting in NIL money.

Lower in the article, it's from Sports Illustrated, it shows that she's ranked in the top 200 in Florida, but nationally, 2,342. If Donald Trump is looking for an example of white privilege and somebody who got a prestigious opportunity that they never earned, he can look at his own dinner table. You know, it's interesting that this is not only white privilege, but this is a flexing of my privilege is bigger than your privilege. Because the thing about golf is golf is already a sport that most people don't have access to, right? I mean, the links cost,

the clubs cost, all of those things. And it's a very, very, very difficult sport. It's very difficult to be consistent at golf. So for this young woman to jump 2000 plus spots is, it's kind of interesting because it's not against the same backdrop of people that are normally in the conversation, i.e. black people or, you know, differently situated non-white people. You're talking about generally probably young people whose parents are more well-to-do, who have the opportunity to put them in the golf tournaments and all of that. So it's interesting that this would be DEI against the backdrop of how the, you know, the same half, how the other half lives, if you will.

This is the same group of people. So I'm wondering what the backlash is like to that, because, I mean, for her to jump all these other people who play golf and who presumably are well-to-do, I wonder if there's outrage there or if there's just the expectation that she's the president's granddaughter and, of course, she gets a pass. I mean, that's what this comes down to. It's not only white privilege, but it's, look, I'm the one running the world. I get to do whatever I want. My granddaughter be at this. And I'm sorry,

okay, and I didn't realize this. I was wondering. I didn't realize this. This also goes for Tiger's son. They chose the top 36 male golfers. Tiger's son is the 714th ranked junior golfer in America. So Tiger Woods, his son, has no business playing in this golf tournament.

That means that Tiger Woods and Kai Trump, Tiger Woods' son and Donald Trump's granddaughter, are taking the spot of somebody who actually is well-deserved, who earned it on the course, and they only got selected for this tournament because of who their daddy and their granddaddy is. Hmm. And if I may, I hadn't heard...

But they look... Go ahead. I hadn't heard the story until this very point. But you can contrast this to how people acted with Bronny and LeBron. Now, Bronny was actually a college basketball player, right? And I know that he had some health issues and other issues, but he was clearly qualified enough to be playing at USC, which is a perennial contender,

right, generally speaking. But if you look at the backlash against LeBron for that, and you compare that to this, where this is just expected, I mean, that shows you that even in the conversation of nepotism and qualifications, particularly in the athletic context, where you have actual metrics to determine whether someone is better or worse, right? I mean, with golf particularly, I mean, is she shooting 70 someone is better or worse, right? I mean, with golf particularly. I mean, is she shooting 70 or is she shooting 100, right? Those are metrics that would show you where she lines up.

People had all kinds of vitriol for LeBron James and his family for Bronny getting an opportunity to play in the NBA, but this kind of thing is par for the course. Yeah, I mean, this is, I mean, at the end of the day, I don't want to hear a damn thing about merit. I don't want to hear anything. Donald Trump's granddaughter, Kai Trump, has not earned her way into this prestigious golf tournament.

Charlie Woods, Tiger's son, has not either. Neither one of them. So, yeah, give me a damn break from all this bullshit about DEI and everything else. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it because y'all are full of it. Folks, that's it for us. Let me thank Zabora, Michael, and Matt Vint on today's show. Thanks a bunch.

Folks, don't go anywhere because coming up next, I got my conversation with Will Packer about his new book that you definitely don't want to miss that conversation. He talks about what it means to have a healthy arrogance. And so I want before I go to the break to be sure to support the work that we do here at the Black Star Network. Of course, you can join our Bring the Funk fan club by contributing via cash app. The goal is to get 20,000 of our fans contributing on average 50 bucks each. That's $4.19 a month, 13 cents a day, of course. And so we're going to use Cash App. Use the Stripe QR code.

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Abolition focus. Should we aim for reform or abolishing the entire system? Kamone Felix lets us know how much possibility lies in abolition. That is such a radical image because it offers the suggestion, a suggestion that we already know to be true, which is that we have what it takes to take care of each other and to take care of ourselves.

Watch us on the Black Star Network, so tune in to the Other Side of Change. Hello, I'm Paula J. Parker. Trudy Proud on The Proud Family. I am Tommy Davidson. I play Oscar on Proud Family, Louder and Prouder. Hi, I'm Jo Marie Payton, voice of Sugar Mama on Disney's Louder and Prouder Disney+. And'm Jo Marie Payton, voice of Sugar Mama on Disney's Louder and Prouder Disney+.

And I'm with Roland Martin on Unfiltered. Get ready. Sure enough. Kenan, do you have your speed? Interesting choice of wardrobe with the Houston Rockets shirt on today. You know, we only need a second place in the Western Conference. It's irrelevant, Roland. Okay, it's irrelevant.

You know what anybody cares about right now? Luka and the Lakers or the Super Bowl, the biggest sporting event of the year, okay? You're talking about second in the Western Conference for the Houston Rockets. Nobody care about that. People from Houston and you, okay? Dallas Mavericks are ninth in the Western Conference. Well, they're going to be

ninth forever because they just gave away their franchise player. That made no sense. Don't matter. He's out of shape and he's on the sideline. Listen, first of all, why you say he's out of shape? I don't know. Is that L't matter. He's out of shape, and he's on the sideline. Listen, first of all, why you say he's out of shape? I don't know. Luka's out of shape. He had a calf injury third time in four years. Listen, everybody gets hurt.

I mean, he's not dying. You know, he's not like... Last I checked, let's see. Rockets, 32-17, Lakers 28-19. They're in our rearview mirror. Just saying, who is the most relevant right now? I didn't say that the team wasn't good. I said the shirt wasn't relevant. It's Super Bowl

weekend. Everybody cares about the Lakers. I don't care about the Super Bowl. My team not playing, and neither are both three of your teams. First of all, I have one team, okay? I have one team. No, you don't. I have one. No, you don't. Yes, I do. No, you don't. Let's be real clear. No, you don't. I have one team. No, you don't. Yes, I do. No, you don't.

Let's be real clear. No, you don't. You step into ownership, it gets a little different. No, you don't. You know damn well you are a Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan. I am an Atlanta Falcons co-owner, which means that that is the team that I ride with, sir. All right, Mr. Packer,

could you make one adjustment to your camera tilted down a little bit? Yeah. A little less headroom. Yeah. So that when we have the lower thirds up, it definitely don't want to cut off your chin. Yeah.

Let me just make this ring light disappear. Okay. All right, you good with that camera position position or you need it down lower? You can tilt it down just a little bit more. We should be good. Okay. Right there should be good. How's that?

That works. Thank you. Appreciate it. The movie producers should be using the external camera, but I ain't going to go there. Hey, man, don't listen. I ain't going to go there. You don't want to go there. If I was on one of my sets,

first of all, I should be with you. I should be in studio with you. That's what I wanted, but I'm just saying, I'm just glad you're taking me, alright shooting into the light alright, you ready

alright go ahead, go ahead the background is real, okay, stop it and I let my hairline go unlike you, you don't just let it go, man you got a head for a baldy you can rock a baldy, roll it I am completely unbothered.

That's not the point. It's not about you. It's not about you. You're always unbothered. I'm telling you as your friend, you should let it go and get like me, rock the baldy and a hat. How about that? I do not care. Listen, it's not about you. You don't care about much.

Also, let's be real clear. Let's be real clear, okay? I have a lot more hair than you do. Because I chose to let it go because I saw it coming, and you decided to stand there in front of that hair, in front of that bald bus instead of letting it go. I let it go. The problem is I have far more hair than you do, so if I have to shave it all off, I have to do shave.

I have shaving every day. I ain't doing that. Let me explain than you do. So if I have to shave it all off, I have to do shave. I have shaving every day. I ain't doing that. Let me explain what I do. I wake up, slap some water on it, brush it, walk my ass out. It is a two minute process.

I do not care. Nothing, nothing about your hair care routine gives the impression that you are spending an inordinate amount of time on it. No one is surprised gives the impression that you are spending an inordinate amount of time on it. No one is surprised by the fact that you are just throwing water on and walking away.

I don't care. That is not a surprise, okay? I don't care. What I'm trying to do, as your friend and your frat brother, is tell you, hey, man, there is a better option out there. Let it go.

The absolute better option, because see, now, if I have to shave all of this, I'm not about to spend 20 minutes sitting here putting stuff on, shaving. We ain't doing all that. It just takes too damn long. Where is the unfiltered team?

Why y'all not telling your boss? Why y'all not being honest with your boss, okay? Who's in the studio? Carol, Kenan, these people, they know the truth. Tell your boss that he needs to just let it go. And don't care. And by the way, get your little Beijing. Get your little Beijing and darken this up too.

How about that? How about we go in? Listen, you're on TV all the time. You are the face of Black America news. It is you, all right? And we know imagery matters, Roland. It matters. Why do I need to darken this up? It's real.

It's going to be real if it's dark. It doesn't matter. It's real. You are the face of Black American news. We need you to be our best foot forward. Yeah, you are. Who else is? Nobody better than you. Who better than you? How about that segue? Pre-COVID, pre-COVID, Eddie LaVert used to always darken his beard and his hair.

Then when COVID hit, all of a sudden, Eddie looked like Santa Claus. You know what he finally said? Why am I wasting all my time darkening my damn beard? I'm 83 years old. Man, roll with that. Unbothered. Hold on. Quick question.

This is good. I hope y'all recorded all that. Listen, how can I, to the studio, my audio is not coming in through my headphones, and I think it's a StreamYard function that I can change real quick. Hold on. Oh, speaker. Here we go, here we go, here we go. Okay. Rose, say something.

Yes, that's what you, those big-ass DJ headphones are. Now I can hear you. Now I can hear you fine. Yeah, they've got. First of all, I am a DJ. You want you fine. First of all, I am a DJ. You want to talk about my DJ headphones, I am a DJ. They got things like earbuds. You know, I'm just saying.

You are talking to one of the preeminent. I will remind you, okay? I will do my own info. You are talking to one of the preeminent producers in all of Hollywood. Not black, not alpha, not white, anybody. One of the preeminent producers in all of Hollywood. Not black, not alpha, not white, anybody. One of the preeminent producers. So you are not going to lecture me on the hardware necessary to capture

correctly the audio and the video of this podcast that we're doing today, sir. Excuse me, this daily digital show that we're doing, sir. And so let me remind you, you are talking to one of the premier digital pioneers. I give you that. I give you that. You're talking to somebody who has always been 10 plus years ahead of the game. And so when it comes to- Both things can be true. When it comes to this space, when it comes to this space, it was the big ass headphones.

But you invited me in, and I'm not like the rest of your guests that just gonna let you get up here and say anything, but I used the Rocket shirt like it doesn't need to be called out, okay? Win a championship in this decade, okay? Do something relevant before you over here hyping up

that team. Who's your team? You know what? I feel like it's time to get into the interview, all right? Who's your NBA team? The Atlanta Falcons. Well, the Atlanta Hawks. I ride with AT team? You know what? I feel like it's time to get into the interview. All right? Who's your NBA team? The Atlanta Hawks. I ride with the ATL. You know that. The Atlanta Hawks. The team where we beat that ass. I was there on the court. I mean, there on the court.

Right next to the Rockets bench when we beat that ass. Where? In Houston or Atlanta? Come see me in Atlanta. See me in Atlanta. Have the Hawks won anything? Well, listen. You see ice cold,. See me in the A. Have the Hawks won anything? Yeah, well, listen. Ever? You see ice cold trade. We coming for it.

Ever? We coming. We coming. We coming. E-B-E-R. Ever? Listen, I'll be at the Hawks game Friday night. Are we running this live or is this taped? Tell me so I know. It's being recorded. It's being recorded.

When is it going to run? I want to make sure my references are current. No, no, no. You can go ahead and keep whatever little references you want. Listen, don't do that. Don't do that. Friday night I will be there supporting the Atlanta Hawks because we're having our Black History Month game. When is the Black History Month game for the Houston Rockets?

Every game. When? Every game. No, it's not. No, it's not. Because we got a black head coach. No, don't do that. It's the NBA. It's a lot of black head coaches. Which is don't do that. It's the NBA. It's a lot of black head coaches.

We just do it, but you don't get any credit for that. My previous head coach was a black coach. Have y'all ever had a black coach? The Atlanta Hawks are very specifically acknowledging the contributions of African-Americans on the court. They're using their platform for good, because that's what we do. We're using our platform for good this Friday night for Black History Month. I'm just asking about that team down there in Texas. You know, we got problems in Texas. No, do it all the time. And by the way, how can you be Atlanta Hawks fan,

but you cheer for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers? First of all, I'm Atlanta Hawks fan, and I am- Atlanta, Tampa Bay. Atlanta, Tampa Bay. I'mers? First of all, I'm an Atlanta Hawks fan, and I am... Atlanta, Tampa Bay. Atlanta, Tampa Bay. I'm confused. I'm from Houston. Can I clarify for you, sir? I cheer for the Texans. I cheer for the Astros. I'm all Houston. We know you Texas, okay?

We know that you are Texas. Is that not a part of Texas? Are you trying to differentiate yourself? We don't claim the Mavericks. We don't claim the Cowboys. I'm a Houston. Do you claim your state?

Do you claim Abbott? Do you claim him? Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Listen, listen. I am one of the newest, as you know, limited partners, but thank you for giving me the window to bring it up, of the Atlanta Falcons. So you know who I cheer for? Thelanta falcons we rise up sir now i think you want to go

there with nfl because both of our teams will be home watching the chiefs and the eagles this weekend so we got a fun nfl conversation till next year so when this airs when this airs yes i will be sure to edit in some of that cheering for Tampa Bay footage that is quite prominent on social media. I don't deny that. I don't deny that. Let me also just say, just, you know, before

we begin the interview, I'm checking the NBA standings. The Hawks are in ninth place in the East, four games under.500. My 32 and 17 uh 15 games over 500 uh and we are in third in the western conference so it is just like a houston rockets fan to start throwing out stats and accolades mid-season. Because you know, when it comes time, when it matters, you know you're not going to have

any stats and accolades to throw out there, okay? We still fight. We're fighting over here at Atlanta. I was at the game where we beat the Hawks on their court last week. Perhaps. Perhaps. But again, that's mid-season. You're talking about stuff that doesn't matter. Roland, first of all, the NBA season is 7,000

games. You know it, okay? We're not talking about the first 3,500. We're talking about when it matters, the playoffs. 82. The only thing we have in conference is that our throwback colors are the same. That's it. That's it. What y'all have is that y'all about the fifth most relevant team

in your conference. That's what I will tell you. Y'all not even relevant in Atlanta. Don't do that. Don't do that. Now you're just making up stuff. Your hockey team is more relevant. You're just saying words. We don't have a hockey team, as you know. You're just saying words. You're just talking now. Your irrelevant hockey team is more relevant.

You may have heard of a gentleman called Ice Cube Trey Young. You know that he is going hey, he is the truth and you know it. So let's just see what happens. I think we held him to 18 points. You better hope that LeBron don't figure it out in L.A., all right? Because that's really going to kill your little midseason dream. He won't.

He won't. He won't. He won't. So he won't. So you just go ahead and focus on those eight teams ahead of y'all. So, yeah. There we go. So let me go ahead. I see. When the Falcons play Texas next year,

me and you. All right? Invite me back on your show. Don't disappear on me now. Don't get scared. You know, my golfing buddy, Grant Hill, of course, he's one of the owners of the Hawks. He graciously offered me his courtside seats and told me there's only one

team I want to watch. And so that's my rocket. So I went last year and this year. So I'll be there next year for us to spank that ass. Alright, let's go. You let me know. I'll be right there. I'll let you go. And I also remind you that you are a Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan. Alright.

We can't get ahead as a people. Always pulling each other down, bringing up old stuff. I have moved it to the future. You know what the Tampa Bay Bucks didn't do? They didn't offer me an opportunity at ownership. You know who did? Arthur Blank. That's why we ride with the Falcons. We rise up. Thank you very much. And I'm quite sure if the Buccaneers

were playing on Sunday, you would be at home, not on social media, probably going, yes, come on, come on, come on. Don't even front. Don't even front. We are not, we rebuke that.

The fact that you are laughing right now, like, damn, he hit it right on the target. We rebuke that in the spirit of ownership, all right? There's levels of economic equity. We are owner of the Atlanta Falcons part owner, limited partner. That's where we at that's where we ride we ride with who rides with us okay whatever delusional things you do you know it's true you know it's true so let's uh go ahead and get started with this interview since yes sir you've chosen to show uh lose your

delusional sports views all right so let's get right to it. First off, how many people told you there's no way in the hell you should put healthy arrogance in the title of a book? You know what? Many people. This book, The Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big,

I wanted it to, just like you and I's personality, Roland, I wanted it to come out and smack people in the face. I think people need to get a dose of truth. And the reality is that the most successful people in the world, and I include you in that number, realize that there is not a timidness to their confidence and to their belief that they deserve outsized success, not minimal success, not some success, outsized success. And the people that I have been around, you know, I've been in Hollywood over three decades now, some of the most famous people, some of the most ambitious people, some of the biggest personalities, some of the most challenging toxic people as well, be honest with you. But they all, many of them have this belief that they should not be successful,

that they might not be successful, that they are destined for success. And when you change your mentality to one that says, I am destined for success, it manifests itself in all kinds of ways. That is what I call healthy arrogance. Not to be confused with just arrogance. Arrogant for being arrogant. Hollywood's got a lot of that too. That's not going to get you anywhere. You have to make sure that you are backing it up and putting the work in, but that you walk into a room with a level of confidence that is undeniable because it will draw people to you. I remember... No, I ain't going to bring that one up.

Go ahead, man. Listen, it's that kind of interview. What you got? If I brought that one up, I'd be real, real... Now, I'm King Petty. I'm real petty. Okay. So, I'll bring this one up.

I would defer to you, sir. I'll bring that. I'm going to say this one here. First of all, you're already King Petty. People know that. If you come for Roland, you got to be ready because Roland going to go there. That's what I like bring that. I'm going to say this one here. First of all, you're already King Petty. People know that. If you come for Roland, you got to be ready because Roland going to go there. That's what I like about you.

I will be King Petty, but I ain't going to bring that one up. I'll leave that one private. But the point that you just made there, I think it's hard for people to understand a state of mind. I remember it. The reason I'm laughing at this title

because I went to Jack Yates High School, which is the same color as my Rockets, which is why my show color is what it is. It's paying homage to my high school. I feel like you could have told that story and left the Rockets out of it. It doesn't feel relevant to me, but keep going.

Whatever. Crimson and gold. Crimson and gold. So I'll never forget Mary Waits, who was my television instructor for three years at Gates. She said, you are the most arrogant student I've ever had here. And then she said, and you're going to be the best ones ever come to this school and my response was you're right and you're right and people were like man what is wrong with you but what they didn't understand was if you are trying to be great, you have to have a state of mind that nothing short of greatness is acceptable.

Correct. That means that you are going full bore. You're going hardcore. You're like, yo, I'm not doing BS. I'm focused on this. And I think it's hard for people who don't understand that state of mind to, I won't say get along, but really roll with you. Because their mission in life, even thinking back to high school, was, man, we're trying to go party after the games and do whatever. Why are you so focused? But 25, 30 years later, they're like,

damn, now we see. And I think, so that's why I think that, that, that is so important when you have that mindset that you want to be great. And it may manifest itself in different ways, depending on who you are. So I don't want people to think that you have to be the biggest, most gregarious, loudest person in the room, right? That is clearly, you know, a space that folks like you and I are comfortable with, you know, put the spotlight all on us. Some people don't have those personalities and that's okay, but you still have to know that at the end of the day, the power of your success lies within you. And what we do as people, we are constantly giving away our power. We're going to someone else

and we're saying, okay, I have a project. I have a business I'm trying to start. I have an endeavor that I'm going after. You're somebody that has financing. You're somebody that has another business that could support mine, that you could buy my products. I'm coming to you to ask for your assistance, your support, your help. If that person doesn't give it, too many times we feel like, okay, this is not what I was supposed to do. This is not what I was meant to do. You're giving away your power to somebody else who may have a title, may have resources, but understand they're just one individual that is giving you their opinion based on their perspective of the world. Doesn't make their perspective wrong, but it certainly

doesn't make yours wrong. And so it's not just about having this outsized outer layer, this visage of being arrogant. That's not it. Don't miss the point, guys. The point is that you have to know the power lies within you to determine your own success. And so I have people all the time that will come to me and they will pitch me movies or bring me screenplays. And I will say, okay, no, that's not for me. I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to invest in it, whatever it may be. But I'm always careful to say, that's just my opinion, right? It's up to you to determine if this project is dead or not. I can't kill any project. I can't kill anyone's dreams. But we allow other people to be dream killers because we give them the power that they should not have.

You got to keep it within yourself. The other thing that's important about what you said, Roland, is that it is a mindset that some people think, well, I just I wasn't born like that and I can't do it. That's not true. Sometimes what you have to do is create some momentum for yourself. And I'm a proponent of fabricating momentum if you have to. sometimes just to get started, to build that confidence. Too many times we get stuck on the first rung when we're trying to figure out how we can accomplish something. You get stuck on that first rung and you feel like I can't even get started. I don't have the money. I don't know anybody. When I first made my very, very first movie after college, it was called Twa. You remember Twa, Roland, and it was starring Kenya Moore and Gary Dorden,

and it was an erotic thriller. And we had set a goal of trying to raise $750,000 for this movie. And for the life of me, I could not raise that money for that movie. I didn't know anybody rich. I didn't know anybody in Hollywood. I didn't have any money. We were trying to raise money to make that movie and we couldn't do it. And it was disheartening. So what I said is, okay, we are no longer going to set a financial goal. We're going to set a date goal. We're not going to say we will shoot the movie once we raise these six figures. We're going to say whatever we can raise within the next three months, that is what the budget of the film is going to be. Three months later, we had raised $75,000, a long cry from what our goal was. Guess what the budget of Twa was? $75,000. We went out and shot a very small seventy five thousand dollar movie but

what it did was it said to other people i can do it i can do something i can shoot a movie but most importantly it said to me it said to myself that i have the ability to do it to do something i needed that my next movie was just a little bit bigger than that. The next one was a little bit bigger than that. So sometimes, no matter whether we're talking about film or some other endeavor, you've got to fabricate momentum. That will help you to build the confidence to get to the point

where you feel like when you walk into a room, you deserve to be there. But before you... But this also, I think, is a critical point here. You cannot fabricate momentum if you don't have the skill set to deliver. That is true. So what I mean by that is, and this is the piece that I think a lot of people don't understand. healthy arrogance. You can walk into the room and say, oh, I can do this, I can do this,

but then you have to deliver. The problem is when people fabricate momentum, then don't have the skill set. So I think what people miss is when I talked about when my teacher said that, what she understood was I was fixated on being the best, which meant stay late, came early, learned every facet of the camera, how to set it up, how to shoot it. And I'll never forget the first day, because the first semester we couldn't walk. She would not allow us to go into the TV studio. We had to learn gloss return. We had to learn what cables were. All the different definitions. First day, second semester, she unlocks the door.

All the students rush in. 20 students rush to the set. I literally go, where's the person sitting who tells them what to do? She goes, they sit in the control room. I said, I've been in control room. None of the reason I said that, there were 20 people on set. I said, everybody can't be on camera. And so I said, we're going to learn that.

And so what people don't understand is if y'all had not developed the skill set on how to shoot, on how to light, on how to have good audio, you couldn't take 10% of what you were trying to raise to actually make it. So the mistake I think a lot of people do is they want to walk into the room puffed up, but they got no skill set to back it up. Unfortunately, that is the mentality of a lot of my younger generation, a lot of my friends that are Gen Z, even some of the younger millennials. And it's not all their fault. It is the culture and the environment in which they've grown up. We live in a digital social media world that is driven by immediate gratification, right? You get dressed, you think your outfit looks good, you post it, you immediately are looking for the likes. You go out and you look at influencers that,

you know, you read make X number of millions of dollars on various social media platforms. It's like, oh, that's what I need to do. A lot of people have that mentality. And folks in our generation are not immune to it as well, either, Roland, who feel like I need to have immediate success. And what that means is you skip the steps that you're talking about, which is a foundation of a skill set that you have to have before you can ever start to see success. It goes without saying that in order for you to achieve anything, you have to be able to do something. But what I speak to is people who know that they want to do something. They want to be great. They want to pivot in their careers.

They want to start a new job or get started on their first job or first career, whatever it may be. What I'm saying to those people is that it's there for you if you're willing to put in the work. The work is what you're talking about when you talk about being prepared. You can't just, you wouldn't step into a lion's den without being trained to deal with a lion. That's what the world is. The world is crazy and unpredictable. It is the lion's den. So you have to be prepared when you step into any arena to deal with the unpredictable, but you can do it, but you also have to walk in with the mentality that not I could win, but that I'm going to win. So it's not, it's like

faith without works, as they say in the Bible, right? So you can't just go in with a lot of confidence and no skill or ability. That is absolutely superfluous. And I think that's the problem. I think, unfortunately, what we see today is the mentality that that i can be highly successful i can be i can create wealth just because as opposed to no no you still have to do some work and i i've had students and others uh who come up to me the nabj convention or other places they say when i want to be say i want to do what you do then my response is but do you want to do what you do. And my response is, but do you want to do what I do? They look at me and they're like,

I don't understand what you're saying. I said, well... And more importantly, do you want to do what I've done? Right. But the reason I say, do you want to do what I do, because I'm sitting here, I got three drones over there, I'm looking at right now. I've got, I'm sitting here, I got three drones over there. I'm looking at right now.

I've got a home studio that I set up, everything that I control. But what I explained to him is I said, oh, I might be in four or five halls of fame, but I'm still working. I'm still learning. I'm still testing gadgets. I'm still shooting. I'm still going out there doing all those things i said so you say you want to do what i do yeah do you want to do what i do then all of a sudden they look at like oh damn i i thought i said yeah all of that i'm like oh you

oh y'all want the selfies y'all want to be stopped in airports y'all want to be able to have uh a-list celebrities phone numbers in your in your phone i said the work creates that you have to have the work you want the success part without the work and i think that as i think as i look at what what you're talking about here you're not trying to say fake the funk you You're saying you have to do the work to make it happen. And I'm actually saying that you cannot fake the funk. One of the ideas that I talk about in my book is how you have to be authentic, right? There is this misnomer that if you, and you know, people have said, find the thing that you love to do, and then you'll never work another day in your life, right? Find your passion, and then allow that to drive your career. And I don't subscribe to that. I subscribe to, number one, be authentic to you, right? There is no faking the funk. You can fake the funk. It's

not going to happen. You talked about like, you know, people think they can do nothing and just be and be successful. No, that's not realistic, right? That's, I mean, people hit the lottery every day. You're not going to hit the lottery, all right. I'm sorry. I'm just going to tell you that is not your future, dear listener, dear viewer. What I will say is that if you're authentic to you, whatever it is that you're doing, because we do live in a world where now we can create personas. You can, you know, go in and put a bunch of filters on and edit things a certain way. And that can be your footprint out there to the world. There's some value in that if you were in the content creation business.

But being authentically you will help you not just find your passion, because it's not just about, let me find the thing that is going to drive me and make me feel amazing every day. What is it that you're good at? I'm somebody that believes, find the thing that is going to drive me and make me feel amazing every day? What is it that you're good at? I'm somebody that believes find the thing that you're good at, your authentic self is good at, then find your passion within it. Roland, I never had a passion initially for being a filmmaker. I was good at bringing people together, raising money, and then, at the time, self-distributing

those projects because I was able to talk our projects into local movie theaters. What was your college major? Electrical Engineering. Okay, so what happened? How did you go from that to, yo, we can make movies. What

happened? It was my Alpha Lion brother, Rob Hardy. He had a dream. He's we can make movies what what what happened it was it was my alpha line brother rob hardy he had a dream he's a philly cat and he had a dream of being the next spike lee the next hughes brother and he wanted to make a movie while we were on campus so i'm majoring in electrical engineering i didn't have a passion in engineering but i was working hard because my name was on it and i tell people all the time if your name is on it you need to be given 110 because it's your name you're building a brand from the time you are born you're building a brand and you're selling yourself so don't think i'm not this is not really what i want to do this job or this area is not really

something that's passionate to me your name is on it. You better question. You did it to help him. I did it to help Rob. That's right. It wasn't my thing. I'm helping him with his passion. You were helping him with his passion. Helping him raise the money, helping him cast actors. He wants to be this filmmaker. Then what was the trigger, though, where you went,

yep. What was that moment? I'll tell you exactly. We shot Chocolate City, right? At the time we had like begged and borrowed to use in-kind services for like $25,000. And we, and I was majoring in engineering, but always planned to go to Wharton. I was initially accepted to go to Wharton. I was going to go to Penn because I knew I wanted to be in business. I was going to get my MBA. And I got a scholarship thanks to Dr. Frederick Humphreys, amazing, incredible past president of Florida A&M University who has since passed on, God bless him. And so I got a scholarship to go. And my parents said, well, you're not going over

here to Penn. That's not giving you anything. You're going to go to this HBCU. Best decision that was ever made for me. So after I graduated, I was always planning to still go and get my MBA. We shot Chocolate City for that 25 grand, and then we hustled it and self-distributed it and sold t-shirts and hats and soundtracks and showed it at the local movie theater. And the students were liking to see themselves on screen. And we took that $25,000. By the time we were done, it had made around $100,000, four times. I said, well, that's 4X. I said, when I go to Wharton, they're going to teach me how to do that with a widget. Whatever the widget is, they're going to teach you how to scale it and how you can create a revenue multiple. That is what business school teaches you. I said, well, maybe I don't need to go to business school. I said, what is this that I did?

Just now I went in and hired actors and I found distribution and I got financing for the project. I said, well, that's called producing. I said, that's what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be a producer. That is where the light went on for me. It was a skill that I had that I found helping somebody else with their passion.

And then I fell in love with the art of storytelling. Okay. So I want to help us freeze that. All right. So you had no idea how this stuff worked at all. So what was your learning process? What was, so it was like, okay, we have to do distribution. Okay. What is that? So, so what was your learning process to do that?

What, what, what did you do? Were you looking up stuff? Were you calling people? What, what, what, what was it? What was the education? Yeah, it was, it was literally trial by fire on the job training. We did not have at that time time any relationships with anybody in Hollywood. So we didn't have anybody that was in a traditional system to tell us you do X, then Y, then Z. Right.

We didn't know it. So really we had gotten some grants for that club. So we had gone out and raised a little little movie, Chocolate City, that we had made on the campus of Florida A&M starring students and monetize it and turn a profit with it. Because we thought you make a movie and you send it to Hollywood and now you had a premiere. Now you're rich and you're on your way to cons. That's not how it works. We had to realize and find a way, and it was really trial by fire. We had this movie project and we said, OK, now what do we do with it? Hollywood will not return our calls. OK, we are going to try to figure out how to get students to see this movie. So we did a big black tie premiere on the campus of Florida A&M. That's another thing I talk about. Dream big. See yourself as big and how you want it to be see your dreams as real and palpable and other people will as well we were broke college students who had the audacity to throw

a black tie premiere on the campus of fam you and make everybody go out and rent tuxes and ball gown you couldn't get in if you didn't have on formal gear that's dreaming in color that's healthy arrogance that is audacity but that's what it took because other people saw what we were doing and they said wow i don't know if this movie thing that they're trying to do is real or not but they are acting like it's so real that it just might be and i want to be on board with it that is why i say that confidence will attract other people to you but what you also did was and this is what immediately jumps out you focused on your base to build from there so as opposed to trying to go somewhere where no one knew you right no one understood you it was wait

a minute let me let me build from my base and grow outwards and that's the thing I'm always trying to explain to people why you have to people ask me all the time well how did you build this show in this network it's because I cultivated my base from CNN, TV One, Tom Joyner and I never felt that those places were more important than my base because I knew that those places were temporary and that when those places went away, my base was still there. And so I built this because my base said, you've been rocking with us, we rock with you. So as you're talking, your base, your base, first of all, got you the grants. Your base got you the skill set set the folk to be in it yeah and then your base you did the premiere yeah it there's something so important about what you're saying roland i just want to i want to underline it because there are people that may be watching saying i have these these outside dreams. I don't know how to get there. What you're

talking about is a very simple concept of going to the resources that you do have, doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on them, right? One of the reasons that you have the power that you have in media is that you do have a base that will follow you wherever you are. Wherever you are and wherever you go, it's like I rock with Roland Martin. He is a voice of authenticity. He has credibility. He has a brand that means something. When I first started off, like a lot of people, I thought I needed the validation of Hollywood.

When we did that Black Tie premiere in Tallahassee, Florida, I invited every studio head in Hollywood. I invited every chairman, Sony, Paramount, Universal, didn't matter, right? I invited all of them. I'll never forget, my mom told me, I need to invite Oprah. Because around that time, you growing up, Oprah was everything. Oprah was giving out cars and giving out money and making people's dreams happen. I said, Mom, I don't know Oprah. Oprah in the 80s and 90s was the equivalent of Jet Magazine in the 60s and 70s. Period. Period.

I mean, listen, I got to go with you on that. But was she not in the 80s and 90s even bigger than Jet in the 60s and 70s? Because she was this mega mogul machine that all things mainstream. So my mom said, invite Oprah. I said, I don't know Oprah. My mom said, you don't know none of those other. So my mom said, invite Oprah. I said, I don't know Oprah. My mom said, you don't know none of those other people either. I said, all right. I'll invite Oprah. I gave Oprah a plus one. She could have brought Stedman or Gale. Didn't matter

to me. She only had a plus one. I'll never forget, I'm standing on stage introducing my movie, and the entire front row I had saved for all these Hollywood people in case they had showed up. Not one person showed up. None of them responded to RSVP, but what if a fleet of private jets showed up at Tallahassee Regional Airport? I need to be prepared, Roland. Here's where you go when you talk about your base.

That front row was completely empty. Oprah didn't need to invite Stedman and Gale because she didn't come, right? Paramount, Sony, Universal, none of them came. Front row was empty. But guess what? Every other seat in that auditorium was filled and in the back, it was standing room only. This is what you're talking about. So it wasn't about that front row. Every other seat was filled.

The place was packed to the brim of students who love to see themselves on the screen. That's when I realized I'm not making movies for the front row. I'm not making my project and content for the validation of the people who don't actually matter. I'm making it for everybody else. So if you're somebody that's got a similar dream, who is your base? Who are the people that you can go to right now that will validate you and your opinion and whatever it is you want to grow, create, build? Who are those folks? Start

with them. Don't look over them. A lot of times we think, I got to get to the people with titles and the money. No. Start with your base. Exactly what you just said, Ro. Start with folks that you know are going to be in your corner, support you. Feed them. Be true to them. Then you can build on that, and guess what?

All those front row people, they're going to come calling. They all call me now, but I had to have that base. That's what taught me about my niche, my art. Tyler Perry talks all the time. He said, I don't make movies for them. And in fact, even his Black critics, he said, I don't make movies for them.

And for all the people who hate, In fact, even his black critics, he said, I don't make movies for them. You gotta make it for critics. For all the people who are black and hate on Tyler Perry, he ain't worried because he ain't talking to them. And I think that is part of this thing, man. It is so hard for people to understand why you have to connect with people, why you have to, I mean, I remember when CNN said, hey, you speak to everybody.

And I'm like, what she didn't understand, and Matt, that was funny, we were leaving, and we were leaving, I forgot, probably on the fourth floor or the fifth floor of one of the studios, at one Columbus Circle. And it was a security desk. I was like, all right, see y'all later. And I was like, you ain't going to say nothing?

She's like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, yeah, speak to the security guards. So security guards at the desk, security guards at the door, security guards downstairs. She was like, you speak to everybody. I said, let me explain something to you. That's my base. That's right. That's who I actually talk to.

I said, that's who stops me and tells me they aunt, they uncle, they cousin, they mama. I said, that's my base. And I said, I'm't, I'm not targeting the dude whose office is on the ninth floor. I said, that's what I'm talking to. And it was a wake-up call for her because I was trying to get her to understand that when I'm on the air, it's actually who I'm also talking to. And so for a lot of people, they, to their point, they focus on the people who didn't show up.

I always say I focus on the people who did show up. So if 50 show up in an all-tournament of 1,000, I'm not going to spend my time saying, what happened to the 950? I'm going to talk to the 50. And I think that's the hardest thing for people to understand when you're trying to build something. You focus on who rocks with you. Who, and I'll say this because it was a brother, MGM National in National Harbor in Maryland.

I was leaving. This was crazy. This was crazy. TV One had just canceled News One Now. And they had a Christmas party that night at MGM. And I show up anyway. I didn't want to go. I show up anyway.

But I'm leaving MGM. And this brother, yo, Roland Martin, man, I fucks with you. I'm talking about loud as hell. And I'm like, all right, bro, appreciate that alright bro appreciate that he's like no no no no you could ask my girl dog I fucks with you so you know black people start clapping and there was like

five or six of them and then he goes yo anybody fucks with you I got you I'm like appreciate that he's like no no we don't know he reaches down I got you. I'm like, appreciate that. He's like, no, no. Will, no lie. He reaches down. He is not about to

flash something. He pulls his shirt up. And all I see, Will, I'm not lying for that, was scar tissue from here to his belly button. His chest had been cracked. Dude was telling me, I've been shot. shot he went anybody fucks with

you yeah i got you yeah and i was like yeah bro appreciate that so yeah what we're talking about is yeah when somebody like that yeah you touch them yeah that's who you build off of. Yeah, and that was just one person, right, with one opinion, with who knows how much spending power. It doesn't matter. But the way that traditional institutions quantify it is, well, you can't just have one person. You got to have a million people. You got to have a million people with a bunch of spending power what you have talked about and what you tapped into is the fact that that one brother was so passionate that he then will go

off and anybody who want who cares to listen and whether they do or not he's going to tell them and he's going to be a disciple for roland martin and he's going to tell them exactly who you are and what you're about. And the power of that, the reason that I have 10 number one movies is because of brothers like that. And really it's sisters like that too. Because the reality is that I've always gone against movies that had bigger budgets, that had bigger stars, that had more marketing, all of that. But I have a core audience that is loyal and that is passionate. And so my audience, when I go against those other big movies

that Hollywood makes and they discount what I'm doing, my audience shows up and shows out. And so the way that this is important for somebody watching right now is the fact that you can tap into that. Don't skip over the brother with the scar. Okay. First of all, you need to pay attention to that brother. Cause he got it on him. And you know, he got it on him. So Roche, him is security.

But the point is you cannot skip over people because you don't deem them to be important while you're chasing the important people, be loyal to the people around you. I'm the same way. I walk into a building, I'm speaking to everybody. On a movie set, I don't care. The person that's wrangling the cables and getting coffee for people all the way up to the big star. Because I was

the person that was getting coffee for people. Because I started off, when I interned under Warrington and Reginald Hudlin, the first movie I ever worked on after I graduated from FAMU, a movie called Ride in Jacksonville, Florida, I was the lowest on the total poll on the set. And some people treated me like I was the lowest on the total poll. Some people did not speak to me. They treated me like I wasn't worthy.

Some people, though, treated me like I was a young brother trying to figure it out, working on a set, because I bust my ass. You're never going to outwork me. So I bust my ass. I was one. I was wrangling the cables. I was getting the coffee. Whatever people told me to do, I was my ass. You never gonna outwork me. So I bust my ass. I was one. I was wrangling the cables. I was getting the coffee. Whatever people told me to do, I was doing it.

And some people looked at me and would give me a little encouragement every now and then. Since that movie, almost to a man, everybody that worked on that set has now asked me for a job because now I'm somebody that can hire, I do hire, full movie crews. And you better believe, I remember those who treated me like I was nothing. Oh, yeah. And I remember those who treated me like I was nothing. Oh, yeah. And I remember

those who treated me like I was a brother that was on the cover. I'm a hardcore Scorpio. I don't forget nothing. Well, I'm Aries. That's why me and you get along. Because you know, that Ram and that Scorpion, we gonna take it to the death. You know what I'm saying? I don't forget nothing. But, hey, hey. So let's

talk about when you also know that it's time to go another direction. What I mean by that is you and Rob, Lion Brothers, Frat Brothers, did some

great things. But that was a point when what you wanted to do was different than what he wanted to do and that had that conversation had to be had yeah and that's also hard for a lot of people yes to know when you know what it's time to pivot i love you i you, but we have to pivot. Talk about that, because that was also a pivotal moment in your development as a producer. It's an excellent point.

And that's something that I talk about in the book, The Art of the Pivot. So Rob Hardy, he is the reason that I got into filmmaking. He had the desire to be a filmmaker. I didn't know anything about it. I was helping him out. We graduated from FAMU and started our little business, and we built it up and built it up and built it up as best that we could.

It came to a point that if you're in business, everybody gets to this point where our business interests diverge. This was my best friend. This was my line brother. This is the reason I'm in the business. But we were mature enough to make a determination and to make a decision that the business no longer made sense for us to be aligned the way that we were. We can be friends. We were always going to be line brothers, right? He is still one of my best friends to this day. But people get caught up feeling like, okay, this person over here, that person is my day one. And so I cannot leave this person. I cannot be somebody that turns my back on my day one. You're not the same person that you were when you started

off. Just because somebody sat beside you in third grade doesn't mean that needs to be the person that's doing your books now that you're trying to have a multi-million dollar business. You got to put the business first. I tell people all the time, if you're getting in this to make friends, you need to find something else to do. Just stay on Facebook if that's what you want to do. You're not in this to make friends. Find your friends elsewhere. Put the business first. That is what the most successful people do. And those that are trying to be successful, but failing don't. You have to understand, you have to put the business first. So with Rob and I. I say business and personal fulfillment, but go ahead.

Two separate things. But my point is that, and it's not like they can't align, Roland, but you have to keep the main thing the main thing, right? And so if you and I are starting a business together, and we're really good friends, and at a certain point, our business interests do not align, we have to understand

that we need to go in a different direction. That is just the reality. It's not personal at all. Listen, business people don't take things personally. You can't take it personal. Are you either about business or you are not? That is one of the things I talk about. You either got to understand, and this is where we get confused because we get so caught up, especially in a social media environment. Somebody said something about me and hurt my feelings. I need to respond. For what? Is responding to that person, is that ultimately getting you closer to your goals? Is what this person thinks about you actually relevant or consequential to what it is you're trying to do? Then if not, what are we doing? You're wasting

time spending energy on that when you could be spending energy on your own goals. Get to where you're trying to go first and then figure out why the person cut you off. The person cut you off on the street and you want to get out and argue with them and have a whole thing, you got some place to be. That is the metaphor of us in business. Get to where you're trying to go first. A CEO once said, the people that made me a $500 million a year corporation are not the same people that may take me to a billion. That's right.

And I got to make decisions. I had somebody on my team. We actually had this conversation. We were talking about who's replaceable, who's not replaceable. We were talking about, you know, letting people go. And this person was like, yo, I've been with you 16 years. I said, and let me be real clear.

I said, I will replace you. I said, if we are going places and you are not keeping up, if you are not continuously learning and building and growing, I will replace you. And bro looked at me like, he said, are you serious? I said, yes, I'm very serious. I said, I need you to understand the only person here who is not replaceable is me. And he just froze. I said, we are building and building. And I said,

and if people on the team are not keeping up, so if I am expanding knowledge and expertise, I need you doing the same thing. I can't have you doing the same thing and being at the same level you were in 2009 if we are now in 2025. And a lot of people, they don't understand what that means. And we can show you company. We can show you people who stay level. And then you've not heard from them ever since. Yeah. And that is a part of the reality of growing. And that could be friends in your life.

Yep. That could be family members in your life. Yes. That could be frat brothers, sorority sisters. Yeah. And it could be co-workers. Yes. and it could be co-workers, you have to know when some folk are no longer relevant in your life or career. And it may mean that they're not relevant in a particular bucket, right? It may mean that

they may serve some other purpose, right? This is not about being disloyal. I want to be very clear. You have to determine and be very smart and strategic about the purpose that people serve in your life, because that is where your energy is going. Because that is how you're going to be perceived out in the world. And because that is how that is going to have an effect on the level of success you're able to have. So the brother, the example that you're talking about, been with you 16 years, what you did is you set the culture there in your company. And you said, this guy's been here forever because you didn't just have this conversation with him. Other people heard it. They knew he's been here with my company for a very, very long time. But with where we're trying to go, everybody has to pull their own weight and everybody has to be ready to ascend to the next

level. And if you're not, it doesn't matter how long you've been here. So for somebody that's been there three weeks, they go, oh, shoot, I better get it together because this is how Roland Martin's running his company. That's what you have to do in your business life and in your personal life and everywhere else. If you are allowing people to get complacent around you, they are going to pull you down. They are the people that are determining how much energy you are spending either working towards your goal or working towards managing relationships that could be toxic, could be draining, or could have no value. If you're staying the same, that is stagnant. That is the same as going down. You are either progressing or regressing.

Staying the same is a level of regression. So question here. And I know someone did this. And you can just tell me who. When did you have somebody tell you, Will, it's time for you to go?

And have you had to tell people who you love, respect, and admire it's time for you to go. There's nothing more that you can learn here. You now have to leave. I know, I mean, I told the dude,

gave him a review of Dallas Weekly. I said, you got 90 days to find a job. I'm going to fire you. He started crying. I said, you got 90 days to find a job. I'm going to fire you. He started crying. I said, bruh, you're 24. You don't come to a black newspaper to retire. You need to leave. And you clearly are not going to leave voluntarily.

So I will fire you if you do not get a job. And he later said, man, it was the best thing because he had gotten comfortable. Go. It is. I wouldn't be where I'm at if I didn't have to have many of those conversations and situations. What I've been told, it's time to go. What I've been told is no, a lot. I've been had doors slammed in my face and have people tell me that I don't fit. I'm not going to be successful in a particular area.

I'm not going to get my projects financed. And I put those people in the bucket of, okay, that's your opinion. And I have learned from that and at times needed to pivot. I've not always had like the right approach to a particular project, the right budget and financing lined up. It's been times where I needed to get told no, so that I could then go and get my own shit together even better. I've been told that many a times within my own company. Anybody that you see that has had a level of success does not sit where they sit without being able to make

very difficult decisions, not just about those around you in business, but also personal. One of the things that I talk about is how we do not put enough value on your life partner, on your romantic relationship. That person that is sitting next to you, they are the one that can either propel you to the highest heights or they can suck the life out of you and make sure that you never get anywhere. A lot of times people think, yeah, well, my business over here, my person's over here. That's not true. I tell my wife all the time. She doesn't love it when I say this. I say, baby, you are the most amazing business decision that I've ever made.

Business, I love you. Love me. You're supposed to love me. I say, no, you're the love of my life. I love you. But because I have somebody that tells me every day, baby, you got this, go get them, go slay the dragons. I'm supporting you because I'm not out in a business meeting thinking about the fight that I got to have as soon as I get home, or I don't want to go home because of all the negative vitriol. There's somebody watching right now that don't want to go home tonight because they're in a negative situation, right? In a toxic relationship. Understand that is affecting your business. That is holding you back from the highest heights that you can attain in your business life. It is all related. It's like saying, you know, my arm is rotting and got gangrene, but my nose is okay. What are you talking about? That's your body.

It's all the same. You got to cut that arm off arm off cut it off that is the only way you're going to succeed some of us are out there in relationships that you need to cut it off because it's rotting and dead you're holding on to it for some reason and it's holding you back in every other aspect of your life you don't want to admit it last question yeah every book authored this okay when writing when researching this book what was your wow moment even caused you to go wow it could have been something i forgot it could have been something that popped up but what was a wow moment for you yeah um it was it's a perfect question, Roland. Writing a book was such a liberating experience for me. I'm somebody as a movie producer, I am, like you, used to dealing with teams and having the benefit of having teams around me who support me. I make a movie and I got a director and I got writers and

I got crew members. And then after we're done with it, it goes to post-production. I got a whole new team. Then in marketing, I got a whole new team. A book is such an individual endeavor. So it was just me. And while I was writing this book and I was thinking about myself and the book is a collection of stories from 30 years in Hollywood. I talk about how you can transfer those to any area of your life. And one of the stories that I learned while writing this book was the fact that my grandfather, when in Alabama, was working on the railroad and had some white boys that came up to him. And they came up with guns and they said, we want you to dance, N-word. That's what they said. And my grandfather, right, proud man, he said, I ain't dancing.

And they started shooting at his feet and they made him dance. They were drunk. And when they were done and had their fun, they said, all right, get out of here, N-word, right? He left. The white boys stayed there on the railroad tracks. And before they knew it, my grandfather grandfather my black grandfather in alabama

came back with a crowbar it was four white dudes he beat those four white boys to within an inch of their lives and one of them did not survive he left and word spread very quickly that granddaddy Packer, name was Thomas Packer, had killed a white boy. They started, the Klan started grabbing sheets from four towns away to rally to come to this small Alabama town. My grandfather's brothers immediately started looking for him because word got out the Klan is coming and they're ready to to wipe everybody out because they looking for this black guy who killed his wife

they could not find my grandfather they finally found him down the road at a little rinky tink rinky dink bar he was sitting there having a drink like wasn't nothing going on they said what are you doing they said you got to get out of here the clan has come he said i ain't going nowhere this is my time they said listen they will kill you your mama us everybody you got to get out of here. The Klan has come. He said, I ain't going nowhere. This is my town. They said, listen, they will kill you, your mama, us, everybody. You got to go. They forcefully grabbed my grandfather, took him back down to the railroad tracks. And the next train that came by, the next open box car, they threw him in it. They threw him so hard, they thought he went out the other side. It wasn't until the train had gone all the way by today, looked and he was gone. He, that train ended up in Panama city, Florida. This is back in the day when you could do something and then go to another town

and you didn't have, you know, cameras and phones and, and, you know, John Walsh is tracking you down. And so my grandfather started a great, a brand new life in Panama city, Florida, never, ever went back to Alabama again. Never ever saw that side of his family again. I did not know that story until I started writing this book. And my uncle told me that story. When I was growing up, I would hear little things like, you know, granddaddy and the Klan and Alabama and ran for his life. I didn't hear the full story until I started writing this book. And I realized, you know what? I'm descended from that. Like, it's no wonder I am who I am. My dad was a proud man, a proud black man who went against all the odds. I'm a proud black man continuing to fight against the odds. But I come from good stock. I come from stock that said, I'm not going to sit here and take it. I'm going to do what I have to do. And then to save

his family's life, he left and started a new life. So that was my wow moment, Roland. I'm glad you asked that question. That there is indeed a wow moment, y'all. The book by Will Packer is called Who Better Than You? The Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big. Fred,

congratulations on the book, and good luck next season to your Tampa Bay Buccaneers. My letter Falcons going to be right there to see your Texas, bro. You know, I love you, man. I appreciate you. I really appreciate the platform. And I just want to say thank you for doing what you do.

And I mean that because we don't have enough voices. They have never meant more than this time right now. And you have always been somebody that's been a vanguard and a trailblazer. You don't care who you have to fight against, what system you have to fight against. In every room I'm in with you, and I've been in many rooms with you, it doesn't matter who's in that room.

You are gonna be true to you, and you're gonna be true to your community. So I wanna publicly thank you, my brother. Fred, I appreciate that, and that's why I don't give a damn about my hair. Let it go, I'm that, and that's why I don't give a damn about my hair. Let it go. I'm starting a petition online. Tell Ro, let it go.

Tell Ro, let it go. And Ro, do not care what you think. All right, 06. All right, brother. 06, Frat. Thank you, family. All right. you Thank you. This is an iHeart Podcast.