#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Black workers' bill of rights; Billions for Underserved Communities; Beyonce lyric change

Episode Date: August 4, 2022

8.3.2022 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Black workers' bill of rights; Billions for Underserved Communities; Beyonce lyric change The Biden Administration promises billions of dollars to underserved communities through its new initiative, but what will this look like?  And we'll take a look at black labor and how it has shaped the structure of the American workforce, asking what about the rights of the everyday Black worker? We'll speak with an expert from the National Black Worker Center who will unpack the rights every black worker should have. And for our tech talk segment, a former WNBA Player is working hard to get children involved in STEM and STEAM. What's the difference? We'll tell you about it tonight. Support RolandMartinUnfiltered and #BlackStarNetwork via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered Venmo ☛https://venmo.com/rmunfiltered Zelle ☛ [e-mail] Annual or monthly recurring #BringTheFunk Fan Club membership via paypal ☛ https://rolandsmartin.com/rmu-paypal/ Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox 👉🏾 http://www.blackstarnetwork.com #RolandMartinUnfiltered and the #BlackStarNetwork are news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You dig? It's Wednesday, August 3rd, 2022, and here's what's coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. The Biden administration promises billions of dollars to underserved communities through its new initiative. But what will this look like? And we'll take a look at Black labor

and how it has shaped the structure of the American workforce, asking, what about the rights of everyday Black workers? We'll speak with an expert from the National Black Workers Center who will unpack the rights every black worker should have. And for our Tech Talk segment, a former WNBA player

is working hard to get children involved in STEM and STEAM. What's the difference? We'll tell you about that tonight. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. Let's go. Sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling Yeah, yeah It's Uncle Roro, yo

Yeah, yeah It's Rolling Martin, yeah Yeah, yeah Rolling with Roland now Yeah, yeah He's funky, he's fresh, he's real The best you know, he's fresh, he's real, the best you know He's rolling, Martin Martin

Jobs numbers continue to report low unemployment, which you'd think would be a good thing. But that doesn't tell the entire story of the worker experience. If all American workers are fighting an uphill battle in the labor market, we know black workers face unique challenges. However, there are organizations here to help. Nzinga Hooker is the policy director of the National Black Workers Center, one of the aforementioned organizations, and she joins us now. Thank you so much for joining us, Ms. Hooker. You all have produced the Black Workers Bill of Rights. And to just get started, we know from our history classes, or we would like to think from our history classes,

that we know what the Bill of Rights is. But what is the goal of the Black Workers Bill of Rights? Yes, I'm happy to be here. And first, I would like to say it's something that we should have been had, right? It's something that is long overdue. And the Black Worker Bill of Rights is both about creation and is about undoing. So with this Black Worker Bill of Rights, we seek to undo the legacy of racism and intergenerational poverty, that is the systemic exclusion of Black workers from quality jobs and persistent policy violence that has been enacted against us, and the creation of additional rights and protections that workers need to ensure dignity at work with safe, healthy, and equitable job conditions. So the Black Workers' Bill of Rights is 10 rights. It's 10 rights to seek to address the job crisis that Black workers are facing.

As you may know, the job crisis for Black workers is layered. It's high unemployment rates, it's low wages, it's no benefits or few benefits, it's no savings or low savings, and it's constant racial discrimination and disparities in the job market. So the Black Worker Bill of Rights deals with a number of things, from the right to be free from surveillance on the job, to the right to be organized, to the right to equitable wages and equal pay. This is what we are demanding, the Black Worker Bill of Rights, to ensure that Black workers who are currently in the labor market have these protections and that the generations to come

have them as well. Now, one of the very first rights in the bill of rights for the Black worker is the right to organize. And Black workers and particular labor unions have had sometimes fraught relationships with labor unions at one point excluding so many black workers. But since the advent of the civil rights movement, we saw many of those labor unions begin to welcome in black workers, and we saw black workers begin to positively assert themselves in the labor movement. Is the Black Workers Center supportive of black workers involving themselves in their labor unions for whatever field they may be in. Yes, and a part of what I want to get to is the coalition that has formed.

So the National Black Workers Center formed this coalition in the fall of last year and is composed of local Black workers centers, is composed of a number of unions. We have the Coalition of Black Trade Unions involved. We have the retail union involved. There are a few unions involved in alignment with the workers' center and grassroots organizations. And, yes, a lot of labor has moved away from the idea of grassroots leadership.

If we were to look back at movements where there was a mass gathering of Black workers, working class people, students, immigrant workers, what we will see is that there was an emphasis on people power. And we are seeing or witness to those prominent returns to labor as a grassroots movement. If you take a look at the Amazon Labor Union that formed in New York. So we are leaning into this shift in labor. We are respecting the people's power, and we're using this Bill of Rights as an advocacy and policy strategy to support the on-the-ground organizing and power building that we are seeing. So that is what this Black Worker Bill of Rights seeks to do. And we look at how it's being created. It's being created through a participatory design process

where not only are organizational partners like worker centers and labor unions involved, but there are worker leader members in this coalition in the individual position, the individual lives who are taking a part in this coalition in addition to external partners. So this is being led and created on a grassroots level by working-class folks. One of the things I wanted to mention

is that I was just at the A. Philip Randolph Conference that is a collection of so many labor unions, coalitions, and justice-seeking worker organizations that was held in Baltimore last week. And so much of what you were talking about was echoed there. I want to inform our audience more about the question of democracy in the workplace. So many of us go to our jobs and assume that which our manager or

the boss tells us must be the law. What does democracy look like in the workplace? Democracy, what it looks like in the workplace is something that we need to change, right? Currently, how it looks in many workplaces, especially in industries that we are targeting, where there are workers who are being paid low wages, working class folks, a lot of workers don't have a say in their workplace because it's been stripped from them or haven't been told of or don't know the rights that they currently have, or they may actively be prevented from exerting those rights. So one of the rights in the Bill of Rights is the right to assert your rights and have those protected, which means in order for a lot of workers to feel comfortable to use their voice in the workplace, there needs to be free legal representation.

There needs to be greater enforcement of labor laws. There need to be people on the ground with workers who are ready to go and protect them when they assert these rights. So a part of why the democracy in the workplace doesn't look like we want it, unless you're in a union or unless you're in a particular organization that is a high-route employer that supports worker voice in the workplace, workers don't really have that because they're not being protected. So the right to organize is already embedded in our laws with certain workers. Some workers have been excluded, but it hasn't been a protected right. And it's a right that needs to be expanded

so more workers can use it. So I'd love to say there's democracy in many of the workplaces, but it's something we're still fighting for. One of the things so many of our workers hear is that their management will tell them, well, we're like a family here. There's no reason for you to try to go and organize. There's no need for you to try to form any kind of coalition, grassroots, formal labor union or otherwise.

What's the incentive? How do we address those workers who work in those places that do believe that their management or their boss is family or who treats them well, but how do we address and communicate to them that at the core of their existence, they are workers and they are best served when they are affiliated with fellow workers? So one of the best stories I heard to address this was from a domestic worker who was working in the household as a nanny.

And what she said was she had raised these children for a number of years as their nanny. She had been close with the family, and that's what they referred to her as, as a family member, because of her connection and her relationship. But she understood. And although employers have a narrative they use of family in order to enact extractive and exploitative practices, workers know that they are going to a job. And what she says is, yes, I love these children, and I have my own children. And my own children require that I work and earn a living wage so I can support myself and my family. So I think most workers understand that tactic, that trick by employers to make you feel like you belong in a space and often is used to manipulate and to maneuver around paying you the wages you deserve and need to thrive. So I think that is a powerful narrative. But what I what I believe in is that workers have that knowledge.

They have that understanding that it is a job and can see through that. And what we are doing is supporting them and seeing through that. Yes, I can be a family member, but I also have things that I need to support myself and thrive. And if I really were a family member, right, then you would want me. You would want me to thrive and survive. Lastly, we know that some of those folks who need worker protections the most, just as you alluded to, are some of the most vulnerable workers. And in order to fight back as a worker, that means some type of a sacrifice. And it may be very easy for you and I and our comfortable positions here to tell workers

to put it on the line and sacrifice. What word of support, of inspiration, or even strategy do you offer to those workers who may be those vulnerable, precarious positions, but are the ones who most need to put it on the line in order to get the rewards of democracy, better wages, better safety, and all the other things that you mentioned? Yeah, I-I appreciate that question.

And-and what I would say to that is... what is underneath all the rights laid out in this Black Worker Bill of Rights is about enforcement, because you're correct. Most of the times, the burden is on workers who are in vulnerable positions, that are in positions where they're being exploited, to carry the burden, the onus of reporting when something has happened, to file a complaint.

What we advocate for is for there to be affirmative enforcement where workers don't carry that burden alone and file a complaint, because it does put you out there. It does put you at risk of being retaliated against. And one measure in which we are speaking to this is through worker standards boards. So worker standards boards incorporate workers as stakeholders, members of the industry as stakeholders, and there's upfront problem solving in industries where there are high violations of employment laws and labor laws. And what that means is that if there is this standard created, which is black workability rights seeks to do, the standard for job quality is created, then employers are forced to comply

with that standard, and workers are not forced to take the risk of putting themselves out there to do it. So I would say there are times where you have to risk it all and there are times where you have to risk it all and you should always be protected. And that's what we're doing. That's what the lawyers are doing. That's what the policy folks are doing. Ensuring that those labor protections protect

you when you have to put yourself on the line. That's absolutely correct. Yes. That's absolutely correct. That's absolutely correct. And if folks need a source of inspiration or hope, we can think to our dear brother from the Amazon Labor Union, Chris Smalls, who was painted as not articulate and not smart. I think in some circles he was even referred to as a thug by some of the executives. And we see that despite him being fired, he ultimately, he and his colleagues and his comrades won,

and there was victory and vindication in the end for them. Nzinga, tell folks how they can find and follow you and the work of the Black Workers Center. Yeah, so you can follow us on social media. The National Black Workers Center is on Instagram and Twitter as well as Facebook. If you go on Facebook, there is a particular group for the Black Worker Bill of Rights. It's simple. It's the Black Worker Bill of Rights Facebook group. So you can go there and you can join.

That's where you'll get an announcement about actions that we're planning, upcoming events, and how you can join and get involved in this coalition because it is open. It is open to Black workers. It's open to advocates who are supporting Black workers. It's open to organizations, unions, worker open to advocates who are supporting Black workers. It's open to organizations, unions, worker centers.

Um, so, yes, thank you for that. You can go to our website, but you can also join us on Facebook. Um, and, yeah, we'll follow up with you, because we're amassing this movement. We are building the coalition. We are building our power and capacity to win this thing. Because we will. If Black folks are going to be workers, we need to be empowered.

Thank you so much, Nzinga Hooker, for your time in this conversation. I'm gonna bring in our panel now, and I'm gonna bring in Taryn Walker, co-fa-founder, excuse me, of Context Media, Dr. Jason Nichols, he's a senior lecturer of African American Studies at the University of Maryland College Park,

and Dr. Nola Haynes, a PhD, MDiv, Georgetown University School of Foreign Service. Now, when you guys hear about the Black worker, and I'm going to start with you, I'm going to start with you, Tarun. When you hear about the Black Workers Center and the work that they're doing over there, does that give you optimism, or are you a little nervous, perhaps, because so much of this country is hostile to all workers? Heaven forbid, should Black workers begin to organize. little nervous, perhaps, because so much of this country is hostile to all workers. Heaven forbid, should black workers begin to organize. No, it gives me a lot of hope. And I'm really glad that this sister is creating this initiative because I think it's very necessary.

You know, as we know, America is built on black labor, you know, unpaid black labor, underpaid black labor, sometimes incarcerated black labor. And I think we've gotten away as a people from the importance of the power of our labor. And we've gotten away from the fact that there is a long history of organized black labor in this country. I think ever since the 60s, we've kind of gotten complacent in a way

because we feel like, okay, we're able to walk into any kind of building we want. We can apply for a job. We may not get it, but we can apply for it. Like, jobs at higher levels, or we can apply for jobs in retail or anything. But I don't think we realize how strong we are if we organize.

And obviously, if you look at the history of labor in this country, and if you look at the economic status of America right now and Black people, we don't realize the power that we are if we organize. And I think this is wonderful. I think it's a beautiful thing. I think there is going to be some risk in this because, you know, when Black people start to organize

in any sort of way, especially if you organize specifically for Black people, you're going to have pushback. You're going to have institutional pushback, and there's going to be legislative pushback. But I don't think that should be the turn to keep us from recognizing our power and walking into that.

So I look forward to seeing where this goes. Dr. Nichols, I want to come to you. We know that the labor union really hit what felt like its peak in activism in the late 1960s, which, not coincidentally, was when they began to wholly welcome African-American men, at least. And so we see that with organizations like Dodge, excuse me, Drum, the Dodge Revolutionary Union Movement, those black workers there. Do any of this feel like a coordinated attempt to you to suppress worker power once Black folks got the opportunity to have meaningful voice in worker organizations? Yeah. So first of all, thank you for having me once again. I definitely,

you know, I think about the history of Black labor, as was mentioned. You mentioned the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and how important that was, not only to the labor movement, but to the civil rights movement just generally. I do have some concerns about how this will play out, because as we've seen with any kind of Black resistance movement, there's always lots of pushback. And we've seen how capitalism is really incredibly strong in this country and seems to punish Black workers when they try to resist. So I am a little worried about what the blowback will be against some of the workers who adopt some of these proposals by this organization. We've seen in some cases where workers have tried to organize in certain parts of the country with some of the bigger retailers. I'm thinking about Sam's Club and Walmart,

where they've shut things down in areas that are economically depressed, and then the people have no jobs. So I hope that this works out, and I hope that, you know, there is a lot of backing for this organization and that they are able to make the changes that need to be made. Dr. Haynes, we know we can't talk about Black workers without talking about Black women workers, and whether we're talking about Lucy Parsons from early in the early 20th century, on the 21st century, labor giants like Dr. Loretta Johnson out of Baltimore, my hometown, black women have a place at the table. But often when we think of the American worker, we're not thinking of the black woman worker, particularly

given the strides that black women are making in education and entrepreneurship, business and tons of different fields. How do we make sure that we center the voice of the black woman worker still today? Well, I think the most important word that we need to think about is equity. And I think that one of the unique moments in time is that we actually have an administration in place, especially with the vice president

and her initiative that she's leading, you wanna start with equity first. And I think when that is your starting point, that is when you begin to address the other intersections, you know, race, ethnicity, religion, all the other things that come into play. You know, if you're a mother, if you are a single mother or a single parent, you know, so all of those things begin to be addressed when we're starting at equity. But when, if that is not our starting point, then we will absolutely be back in the same sorts of situations that we're in, even with highly educated women.

We all know that historically women are not making the same wages as men. And for those reasons that existed before, when men were the quote-unquote breadwinners and they had to take care of entire families and women traditionally stayed at home and raised children. Well, we all know that is not the cultural landscape that we are living in. So equity is the word that we should be starting with when we're having these conversations. And I think that another part of this is we need to abandon this really kind of reckless cult of personality that exists exists that was mentioned in the opening dialogue in terms of working for people and not necessarily companies or when the companies are people. And one example that I think about is the Tesla example. There are tons of people,

especially in Southern California where I live, that invest a great deal of time, energy, and money in Teslas because they are energy efficient. But, you know, Tesla is also ran by a person with a very strong personality who recently, you know, did not want people to organize. So we have to really think about our job choices too. Exactly what are we signing up for? You know, everything is about the brand. Everything is about, you know, vibe and energy and things like that. But as a worker who has choice, what are you looking for in your employer? Are you looking for that moment, that person who is the it person? Or are you looking for a place where you can safely organize? Are you looking for a place that has paid maternity and paternity leave? Are you looking for a place that has paid maternity and paternity leave?

Are you looking for a place that has benefits and that starts with equity? And so I think that the worker, we also have a responsibility to choose where a safe space is where we want to work and to make sure that we are pushing these companies, especially when they have a cult, when they have a cult of personality thing going on, to make sure that we are pushing them in the right direction. Because I can tell you, I've been in a union for a very long time as a kid when I was a teenage actor in the Screen Actors Guild. And I've seen myself the differences of working on union jobs and union jobs. I mean, non-union and union jobs. It's a massive difference when you have those protections.

And a lot of grad programs are also organizing now. And I think that's a very good thing because a lot of grad students are put to work under really, really, really stressful conditions. So I think that organizing is a really good American feature. But us as the worker, we have to understand our rights to and to hold

these people accountable. Dr. Haynes, I'm thinking about what you're saying, and it sounds good, but quite functionally, you said, well, why are we taking the jobs with these folks with cultural personality or places that won't let us organize? Quite frankly, so many of us will say, because that's the best paying job I can find. How do you suggest those of us who are in that precarious position negotiate our relationship with knowing that we work in a place that may not be hospitable to our needs, may not be as equitable as we want for workers, but the rewards that that job offers are so much greater than what we can find in other places that it would be foolish for us not to? What advice do you offer to those folks? I think that's a great point.

And I think if we do the calculation in terms of... Again, I go back to the worker, because we do have individual choices. It really depends on what is important to you. Now, if you do, like, a long kind of mathematical forecast about your mental... your mental health, your emotional health, you know, you factor that into working for the IT company and the IT brand at that moment, but you are not protected as a worker, which is to say

that at any moment, you know, you can get a memo from that CEO who has like a, you know, has a crisis in that moment and decides you no longer have your job. So that's a level of instability that needs to be built into the long-term equation. So that's the best way that I can answer that, but that's a really great point. Tareen, we just talked about or we think recently about the passing of Bill Russell. And we think about his athletic activism. We think about Jim Brown, Muhammad Ali and those folks and their athletic activism. But we know their names because they were courageous enough to take risks.

But quite honestly, with deflation going through the roof, seemingly everything costing more money, how do we tell workers to go ahead and take that risk that is necessary in order to break through to the other side for a more democratic workforce, knowing how difficult it is to survive for those of us who may have means? You know, that's a very good question, and that's a very good point, and it's a very hard point. When it comes down to putting food on the table

and having a roof over your head, it's very hard. It's very easy to say, sit back and say that, you know, somebody should take this stance. Somebody shouldn't take this stance. You have the luxury to not worry about that. It just comes down to personal courage. And that's something that each individual has to think about for themselves. And that's something that each individual has to do their own soul searching for. You know, all the people you mentioned, from Bill Russell, who just passed, rest in peace, to Muhammad Ali, to people who we don't even know had to sit with themselves and make a personal decision to say, yeah, I'm going to risk my future, my financial future.

I might risk some things with my family, even my personal safety. But my well-being and my morality will not tolerate me sitting silent about some of these things that I'm seeing and some of the things that I feel. And that's just one of those things that each individual, again, has to come to on their own. It's not going to be easy. And when people make those choices, it's never easy, but it has to be made. But that's an individual choice. And once that choice is made, usually people rally around that person. So that's what has to happen. It's great that you use about the rallying around that person at the end of your phrase. And Dr. Nichols, I'll give you the last word on this,

because I'm thinking about how much stronger we are when we act collectively rather than acting individually. And I can anticipate or imagine how scary or daunting it might be when one of us says, you know what, I'm going to tell the boss where they can go and how they can get there. Or I'm going to tell the boss, if we don't have AC in our unit,

we're going to put down our tools or whatever the case may be. But I imagine when three or four or five or six of us go tell the boss we need AC, that might produce a better outcome. Do you believe that collective action might be a greater source of inspiration for carriage in these types of democratic or workplace situations? Oh, without question. I mean, it goes back. I mean, you talked about the legacy and our legacy as a people, which goes back to resistance, even to, you know, enslaved plantations of, you know, where there were enslaved Africans. Collective action was one of the things that actually worked in their resistance efforts. I think that collective action going forward in the labor market has always been one of the things that's worked. And again, I'll mention April Randolph and the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters. And if you want to know

how important labor unions are and the power that they can actually garner, and I think our community knows very well because we've been on the other side of that with police unions. You see how strong they are and what they've been able to do and what they've been on the other side of that with police unions. You see how strong they are and what they've been able to do and what they've been able to resist. So I think if we want an example of what a labor union can do and that kind of collective power that can be garnered from, you know, coming together that way, look at what they've done in our communities. Now we can harness that same kind of power and use it for good by getting together and making sure that workers are taken care of. I like that, Dr. Nichols.

You left us with the word that, you know, the collective action is what's that important action. I'm going to ask our panel to hold on one second. We're going to go take a quick break. This is Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. We'll be a quick break. This is Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. We'll be right back. when we invest in ourselves our glow our vision our vibe we all shine together we are black beyond measure on the next get wealthy with me deborah owens america's wealth coach you see the headlines Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. scared money don't make money. That's why I'm excited on our next Get Wealthy to have a conversation with someone who has written a new book, Fearless Finances, and she's going to share exactly what you need to do to secure your bag regardless of the ups and downs of the economy

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With me, Dr. Greg Carr, here on the Black Star Network. Every week, we'll take a deeper dive into the world we're living in. Join the conversation only on the Black Star Network. Hi, everybody. This is Jonathan Nelson. Hi, this is Cheryl Lee Ralph, and you are watching Roland Martin, Unfiltered. The Biden administration and a coalition of 24 companies and foundations are coming together to align historic investments in underserved communities. Last week, during an event in New York City,

Vice President Kamala Harris announced historic efforts to catalyze and align public and private investments, including the formation of a new Economic Opportunity Coalition to address economic disparities and accelerate economic opportunity in communities of color and other underserved communities. Here's some of what the vice president had to share. America is a nation powered by the ambition and the aspiration of her people. The ambition and the aspiration to turn dreams into reality,

including the aspiration and dream to start a business, to own a home, to get an education. That is the energy and the ambition that has always been a driver of America moving forward. It creates jobs. It sparks innovation. It expands the economy. And it makes our nation more competitive. But achieving that success requires a number of very specific things, and in particular, it requires access to capital.

For what? Well, for example, to buy inventory, to make a down payment, to hire employees. And it requires access to financial services, services like checking and savings accounts, home and auto loans, financial education and advice. And what we know is not everyone in our nation has equal access to this essential support. Consider, for example, in our nation, black entrepreneurs are three times more likely to report they did not apply for a loan for fear of being turned away by a bank. That fear being based on the stories and the experiences of their family, friends, and neighbors. Black and Latino homeowners are rejected by traditional financial institutions

at a higher rate when applying for home loans. And this is the case even when they have credit profiles that are similar to other applicants. We are back with our panel. Joining us is Tarun Walker, Dr. Jason Nichols, and Dr. Nola Haynes. I'm going to start with you, Tarun. When we hear about this investment, this historic investment, when we hear about the investment, this historic investment, when we hear about the significance of this historic investment, particularly for black entrepreneurs, some may criticize this as a form of trickle-down capitalism, even for black people. We've heard names mentioned in this organization like Bank of America. We know that Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, and some of these other institutions have dealt with black people. When you hear about it, particularly as a founder of a media company, an entrepreneur yourself, Terron, how do you receive this kind of news?

You know, this isn't the first time that we as a people have been to this well. And this isn't the first time that some sort of initiative for black entrepreneurs has been suggested by an administration. On the one hand, I'm glad to see there's some sort of light being shed on the fact that there are historic disadvantages that black businesses have. But on the other hand, I'm very skeptical of this. And the reason I say this is the vice president is correct that there is a very long and there's a very tragic history of black businesses being historically underfunded and black entrepreneurs being disenfranchised. My question is, how much of this is going to be connected to education of the people who are delivering these loans, as well as the people who are moving into the possibility of potentially getting some of this help. You see what I'm saying? Because a lot of times, a lot of what happens

with a lot of black entrepreneurs is that a lot of things they don't take advantage of is because they're not aware of them, and there's a lack of education about what is available. So I'm wondering what's going to be tied to this, and also what strings are going to be tied to this money? What are the qualifications? What is the long-term goals for this? What is the long game?

And I'm saying all that because a lot of this feels very open-ended, so I want to see what the end game is for all of it. Now, Dr. Haynes, I'd be remiss if I didn't at least acknowledge or praise the $3 billion investments that we have in CDFIs, that's community institutions, and MDIs, minority-serving institutions. I don't want to come to the well immediately ready to throw poison into it, though I do come with a degree of skepticism. If you hear some of these numbers about this historic investment in these minority-served institutions, how do you come away? What is your understanding about how this might make a real effect on our viewers and so many of us across the country?

Well, I have two feelings about it. So my first thought is, you know, you need very strong people, especially coming out of the executive office. You know, you need the LBJs, you need the FDRs to push an advanced policy forward, right? So you need that kind of, you need that big, not only investment, but you need the support of the administration to do just that. And I really do believe that Madam Vice President really is, she means what she says, right? Because she doesn't have to say it. And that's what people need to realize. She doesn't have to say these things. They're not safe things for her to say. She's saying it because she means it. And there are a lot of people around her that are working very hard to make sure that these policies are substantive and not just representative, because I completely understand.

You know, I have a very long history of working in diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility, and I can't tell you how many programs come and go. And they may exist for a moment. I mean, there were tons of these programs popping up after George Floyd, and they're all but gone now, right? But you have someone in the administration who is strong and who is committed, and that is what policies like these need. Now, here's what I'm very curious about. To the education point, I think, yes, education and messaging that these programs will exist, and to be very clear about to the education point, I think, yes, education and messaging that these programs

will exist and to be very clear about what the parameters are, to be very clear about what you can and cannot do, and to be very clear about some of the economic pitfalls that some of these programs may entail. So education is key. And I think on the other side, education is important for these people that that are swimming in identity bias. You know, the bias needs to be addressed. It's one thing to stand these policies up. But we all know what happened after Brown v. Board. V. Board. V. Board. Sorry, I can't speak this evening. It didn't automatically trigger states to go into desegregate schools, right? Again, the administration had to step in to make sure that this policy was enacted. So what are we going to do for people that carry these heavy biases with them that created this system in the first place?

That is where I think a level of education needs to come in at. And that's where I think a lot of DEIA professionals can be very helpful here, because it's one thing for the government to say, here's this pot of money, right? And these are the people that you should be serving. But there are always going to be gatekeepers. And that's what I'm actually really concerned. It's one thing when you have a checklist of certain things that you need to, certain criteria you need to meet. But what about that people? What about that person that's bringing their bias into the selection process? And so that's something that I'm definitely keeping my eye on and something that I definitely, you know, advocate for, because that's a major piece of the long term fix to this long historic systemic problem here in America. Dr. Haynes, I'm glad that you alluded to FDR and LBJ

because I'm very curious about something. Both of those presidents were very explicit about willingly using public dollars to make social good. But here in this fact sheet that the White House has put out from the vice president's office, it even notes that there will be $8.26 billion of investment in CFDIs and MDIs to incentivize them to provide loans. The thing that I'm a bit concerned about, and I'm not asking you to answer for the White House, so please don't please read this question as such.

But the thing that I'm a little concerned about is those two presidents you acknowledge recognize the serious nature of the time they were in and wielded the power of the federal government to its full capacity to serve the people, whereas this seems to want to incentivize capital to serve the people. And unfortunately, the history of the United States tells us that capital doesn't always serve the people, hence why some of the questions and concerns that Taran alluded to, some of the questions

and concerns that you alluded to. How do we begin to reconcile that? How do you think we do that? Well, that's such a small question. Thank you for asking such a small question. Let me try and fix the world in 5.5 seconds. So, you know, again, I really do think that it's about the commitment. You know, I have a friend who always says that anything can get done in Washington if the appetite is there, right?

And if you are really hungry and, you know, if the appetite is really there, I have more of—I'm a little bit more hopeful because I do believe, you know, in a lot of people that are working very hard on these sorts of initiatives. But again, that doesn't mean that we don't hold people accountable and it doesn't mean that we show up, you know, and remind people that this was the commitment and we're making sure that people are standing on those commitments and these aren't just empty and hollow words. So I don't know if I solved the world's problems in that response, but that's the best that I can do right now. I apologize for putting you in that position, but that's the best that I can do right now. I apologize for putting you in that position, Dr. Haynes. I hate it when folks do that to me, and I'm sorry to do that to you.

Dr. Nichols, I do want to come and ask you a question. We know that we have three branches of government, right? We know we have the Supreme Court that will look at certain policies, be they executive orders or otherwise, and may flippantly say, nope, this is unconstitutional. And so should we worry, given all that we've seen, what I would call this activist court engage in so far, that anything that seems specifically targeted

to help black people may be at some point challenged in our judicial system and ultimately nullified, even if Vice President Harris and President Biden were wielding the full authority of the U.S. government to give Black folks billions of dollars directly? Well, it certainly can be challenged in federal court, but I really don't think that we have to fear that. And I'll tell you why. I'm more in line on this question with Tehran than I am with Dr. Haynes, honestly, because we've seen Black capitalism used as a

supposed cure for Black intergenerational wealth gaps. Since the Nixon administration, that was a way of blunting Black power for a long time, was to co-opt the language, say we're doing something for Black people, and to use Black capitalism. And that's just a historical fact that we can look at, whether you call them opportunity zones or whether you call them something else. It seems like it's a way oftentimes that comes from the executive branch that avoids real, solid, strong legislative action to redress some of the things that we've seen historically, whether that's, you know, reparations, whether it's something that would affect all of us, including things like baby bonds, but would certainly narrow the racial wealth gap.

I think there are more aggressive ways to go about this. every administration comes up and says, hey, I got $20 billion or I have $100 billion for, you know, for these corporations that hire Black people or these corporations that lend to Black people. And a lot of times I think it goes through because it's a drop in the bucket and it never really makes a huge difference. So I'm a little, I'm pretty skeptical on this. I'm sure that the vice president has good intentions, as I believe the Obama administration had good intentions. I'm not so sure about the Trump administration's intentions, but they tried something. They've all done this, and it seems like it's good PR, but it doesn't give the results that

they necessarily need. Now, I'll just say, from a political standpoint, I'm glad that they put the vice president on this. They've given her, uh, tasks that are almost impossible, which, uh, have hurt her popularity. So I'm glad that she's been given something, I think, that is manageable, but I don't think it's gonna make a big difference. We've seen this over and over and over again. Now, but, Dr. Nichols, I would say,

I can-I can imagine the answer already. Look at how fractured and divided the United States Senate is. over and over and over again. Now, but Dr. Nichols, I would say, I can imagine the answer already. Look at how fractured and divided the United States Senate is. Look at how tons of bills come out of the House that just languish in the United States Senate. Look at the aforementioned activist judicial Supreme Court.

This, quite honestly, I imagine the Biden administration might say, is the best we can do. If that's the case, shouldn't we then try to organize our skills to maximize that which this executive order and this initiative can provide for folks? Well, I definitely, I'm not against necessarily this executive order. I just am skeptical about the impact that it's actually going to have and the results that it's actually going to create. I would also say that, you know, Democrats who want to, you know, galvanize Black votes,

they're in trouble. They're losing Black and Latino votes right now. If there's something that they can go and go to Congress and say, hey, this is a way, this is something that we're doing for African Americans, if they want to go the congressional route, they still have a majority there, and they can put it in one of these budget reconciliation situations where they don't need, they can avoid the filibuster. That's what they're doing right now.

They need a simple majority, which they have. And if they can get that done, perhaps they could sneak some of this in and get this done from a legislative act. But I think, you know, what they're doing now is good. I just don't know that it's going to be any different than the Opportunity Zones. And when we saw what happened with Opportunity Zones, it benefited the companies. It benefited the capitalists. It benefited the Bank of Americas of the world and all these other organizations, rather than benefiting Black people and Black workers and Black working class communities. So that's my concern. I hope I'm wrong. I really do.

But that is what we've seen historically. And, you know, history is, you know, best qualified to, you know, to reward all research, as Malcolm would say. Oh, I love that quotation, Dr. Nichols. Let me ask you this on a political space then. If these numbers are what we have in front of us, how can we perhaps move to organize the resources and organizations that we do have to access that capital to then begin to make leverage

and make meaning for the communities around us? For example, if there are some of us in our various communities who have worker co-ops, perhaps, how do we then begin to try to access that capital? Because as you alluded to, yes, this may be something that ultimately has historically rewarded the capitalists, but I imagine there are those on the ground who see this pot of money there and say, nah, I'm an organizer. I can go get that. Yeah, I hope that there are ways, and I hope that the government, and that goes to, I think, what Dr. Haynes was saying about, you know, education and making sure that people know that these funds are available. Or maybe it was Taran.

One of the other guests was saying that, you know, making sure that they know that these funds are available, reaching out to these community based organizations. I think that now we need to understand that, you know, historically people just went to churches when they wanted to reach African-American people. But there are other organizations within African-American communities that could be reached and that really could use these funds to do good in the community. So I think that the administration, if they're really trying to make a change

and really trying to reach some of these, you know, co-ops and other organizations, they need to reach out to them and let them know, hey, these are available, these are how you reach them, this is how you apply. And I think it could make a difference. Teron, I know that was you that first talked about messaging and about how to make that

effective. So I'm going to come back to you, particularly because you have media experience. What should the messaging look like from the White House? What strategy should they engage in? And I don't want to sell your services for you, but what type of strategy should they engage in in order to make sure that we don't have to sit here seven years later and say, well, this next opportunity zone is just like the last thing that the Biden-Harris administration did? Well, I'm not even going to charge for this free advice right here,

but here's the thing. I think what the administration is going to have to do, and this is going to be a very hard thing for them to do, but they're going to have to do it if they're serious about this. They're going to have to get away from the gatekeepers who they always talk to when they create these initiatives. What I mean by that is the black gatekeepers who have set themselves up as to be the go-to go-betweens between the black masses and the black poor and black working class and the administration, the administration is going to have to move around those people and start talking to people on the ground. I don't know what that looks like, but they're going to have to start talking to people who are doing actual real grassroots work in poor and working class Black communities.

They're going to have to start talking to poor and working class people who have businesses in those communities. I don't care if it's the barbershop. I don't care if it's the brother who's got a rib shack. I don't care what it is or if it's the brother who's doing detailing, whatever. Those real, hard, on-the-ground, rank-and-file businesses are going to have to be part of this initiative. And that's what's going to have to happen. Because a lot of times when you have a gatekeeping class that tells you what you want to hear or you have a gatekeeping class of people who are so closer to the administration than they are to the people, what you get is initiatives.

And you get a lot of rhetoric. It doesn't really to the people. What you get is initiatives, and you get a lot of rhetoric. It doesn't really feed the people. So they're going to have to go to the people, talk to them, find out who the people who have the pulse on the street are, and deal with them first. That's what's going to have to happen, and then they can craft a plan and strategy. Tarun, walk me through this scenario.

We see that after this, Black entrepreneurship booms. The affairs and the income and the financial prosperity of Black entrepreneurs is doing really well. But there's a significant number of the Black working class that is being left behind. How then would the Biden administration come back and sell that? Would they then sell that as this program, as a success, as a failure? How should we as a community look at this program if that is to play out through this initiative? Well, I think you have to look at the individual needs

of the communities you're talking to. You know, some people, not everybody wants to be a business owner. Not everybody wants to be an entrepreneur. Some people are really good employees. Some people are really good one-person LLCs. It just depends on what that person is looking for, and it depends on the community. I don't think it does a lot of good for the community to be a whole community of business people and entrepreneurs. Somebody has to be consumers. Somebody has to be employees,

and we have to figure out what that looks like, and we have to be honest about that. As far as how the administration would sell that, I think if you put down specific parameters about what kind of numbers you're looking for and what kind of numbers are you dealing with as far as what the community looks like, if you can see a substantial growth in the gross national product, so to speak, of what the community looks like and people's cost standards of living look a little bit better, I think that's a success. But I think it all has to come from what the people want and it all has to come from where the people are. Dr. Haynes, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to run.

What marks this as success? How can we know that this has been a successful initiative from the Biden-Harris administration? I think when all Black folks are prospering from this, and I think a really good point was raised in terms of, I'm going to say it in terms of, you know, the black community not being a monolith, right? Once upon a time, you know, there was this huge rift that existed between, you know, black folks wanting all black folks to be educated and other black folks saying, is part of how we kind of make sure that equity, again, I'm using that word equity, is distributed among people who really do want to do different things. You know, everyone doesn't want to be an entrepreneur. I know that that seems to be the buzzword and that seems to be part of social media branding that everyone can just sit at home and make all this money or become an

influencer and not have to do a whole lot other than just be fly on Instagram, you know, and to say something catchy and viral on Twitter. Okay. But even with that, even if those are people who want to be influencers, perhaps, you know, an incubator that cultivates, you know, how to be a successful influencer and how to make your coins and how to invest and how to pay your taxes, how to do 1099s. So to think about the different needs in the black community and to fund those needs appropriately. But just to say that to identify one or two fixes that may work for one population, it may not work for another population. desires and wants, I think that that is very key to what success will look like overall, is to get away from this thinking that we all want the same things. We're not even all from the same places.

You know, how could we all want the same one or two things, right? And not to say that policy is a cure-all to all things, but I think when you start seeing us as dynamic and layered, I think that that's a really good complement to having effective policy, is to really understanding different communities that you are investing money in. Sorry, one second. I was trying to go viral on Twitter. Did you say something about going viral on Twitter, Dr. Haynes? Anyway, anyway. Thank you so much. We're going to take a quick break and come right back with much more. You're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered streaming live on the Black Star Network. We'll be right back. When we invest in ourselves, our glow, our vision, our vibe, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure.

Hi, I'm Dr. Jackie Hood-Martin, and I have a question for you. Ever feel as if your life is teetering and the weight and pressure of the world is consistently on your shoulders? Well, let me tell you, living a balanced life isn't easy. Join me each Tuesday on Black Star Network for a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. We'll laugh together, cry together, pull ourselves together and cheer each other on.

So join me for new shows each Tuesday on Black Star Network, a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us. Growing, creating, making moves that move us all forward. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure.

We're all impacted by the culture, whether we know it or not. From politics to music and entertainment, it's a huge part of our lives. And we're going to talk about it every day right here on The Culture with me, Faraji Muhammad, only on the Black Star Network. Hey, I'm Antonique Smith. Hello, everyone. It's Kiara Sheard. Hey, I'm Taj. I'm Coco. And I'm Lili.

And we're SWB. What's up, y'all? It's Ryan Destiny, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Jessica Abba disappeared from Laurel, Maryland on June 2, 2022. The 15-year-old is 5 feet 2 inches tall and weighs 120 pounds with brown hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a tan blouse, blue jeans, and open-toed sandals. Anyone with information about Jessica Abba should call Laurel, Maryland Police Department. That number, 301-498-0092. Again, 301-498-0092.

The woman who was in Daunte Wright's vehicle when he was fatally shot by police in a Minneapolis suburb last year is suing the city and the former officer who killed him. The lawsuit says 21-year-old Alanya Albrecht-Payton of St. Paul was physically and mentally injured when Wright's vehicle crashed after Kim Potter shot him on April 1, 2021. Potter has said she mistook her firearm for her taser when she fired at the 20-year-old black man during a traffic stop in Brooklyn City.

We're going to go bring back our panel. And, Dr. Haynes, I want to start with you for a second. When you hear about this young woman who's now been adversely affected, the first thing that comes to my mind are all of the myriad of young women who seemingly happen to be in relationship or in community with young men as they are experiencing horror and violence at the hands of law enforcement, or in Trayvon Martin's case, pseudo-law enforcement. Explain to our audience a little bit

about what this impact might be psychologically on those who are witnessing this horror. Listen, anytime I suffer from secondhand PTSD, I can't imagine being in the car or holding the phone, capturing the video when someone's dying and that person turns into a global figure of police brutality and making sure that civil rights are being protected. The women, I'm going to go all the way back to even before, particularly like the civil rights movement and then the student-led movement that followed that led to the Panthers and a lot

of offshoots. There's always been women in the struggle, you know, alongside, parallel to. I went to undergrad at UCLA, and there were two Panthers murdered in the building where students of color go to receive their services. And from time to time, the women involved, Elaine Brown, Erica Huggins, the women that were involved, you know, and their husband or their friend being murdered, they come to campus all the time and they talk to students about what that means in real life terms, that there's nothing romantic about it. There's nothing heroic about it. It is traumatic and it's something that is always with you. And I can't imagine these young women, you know, that are with these men when these tragic things happen. Not only is it a level of mental and

emotional stress, I can imagine that there is also concern for their own security. How is their security being tended to? You know, I'm very curious to know if, you know, some of these young women are being threatened and harassed to keep their mouths quiet. You know, I mean, there are a lot of different questions that I have around this. But when I read this story, absolutely, I completely understand 5,000% how this young woman could be suffering from PTSD. It's something that's going to be with her for the rest of her life. And we don't know what that impact is going to have on everybody else around her too. So I think that this case could really be a moment for women and, you know, significant others, not just women, all significant women, where, you know, you are being cared for and there's going to be a legal provision

where that sets precedent that you can also get some level of compensation because this is going to impact their lives going forward. So I think that this is a very interesting case to watch because this is definitely going to be, this could be precedent setting. To run, I'm thinking about Diamond Reynolds, the fiance, significant other of Philando Castile from Minnesota. And she had a significant settlement

for the distress and experience that she had there. But that's a whole family we're talking about. And one of the things that I think that we, not necessarily those of us on this panel, or even those who would watch this program, but we, the larger American society, may not appreciate is the psychological effect that Dr. Haynes talked about. That being in the presence of watching this police violence,

of observing it, of seeing it happen, and now you are still expected to engage in your society and engage law enforcement as though that didn't even happen. How do you think that that psychological effect weighs on loved ones who have seen this happen to their kin? Well, you know, to answer that question, you have to go back to the beginnings of shadow slavery in America. Black people have always been bystanders, and we've always suffered

from the horrors of white supremacy, whether it was physical abuse, whether it was murder, whether it was lynching, whether it was assault in many different ways. And our loved ones and our women have unfortunately bared the brunt of that pain and bared the brunt of that suffering. What we're seeing happen right now is just that same trauma and that same abuse and that same brutality being codified by law enforcement and being offloaded outside of lynch mobs onto the agents of the state.

So, you know, you got to think about what the psychological cost of a death in someone's family is under the best of circumstances. And then you imagine what the psychological cost of a death in someone's family is under the best of circumstances. And then you imagine what the psychological cost of seeing your family member or your loved one or someone you're planning to build a life with taken from you by the state, and what the horror of that does to your psyche in that way, when you're trying to build a life with somebody. Unfortunately, this is something that I don't think is going to happen, that it's going to end anytime soon,

no matter how much lip service any administration gives to trying to put policies in place to stop this sort of thing. We live in a culture where the only violence, the only real, we live in a culture where abusing black bodies is a national pastime. And it seems it's almost like a law enforcement procedure. And I don't know how that's going to, I don't know how this is going to change that.

I think what's going to have to happen until you make things so financially uncomfortable for the society and for law enforcement in this country, until these things begin, they begin to focus on looking at alternative ways to stop this behavior. That's the only way I think it's really going to stop. And I don't have an issue at all with this woman getting every dollar she can out of this lawsuit. I think the only way this is really going to change, as I said, is if you make it financially painful for it to happen. And you also have to make people realize that black people are human beings and black people have psychological damage by dealing with the society, dealing with it in this way. And I think this is what has to happen as well.

We have to be seen as full human beings. The state has to be forced to see us as full human beings. And then maybe things can change. And then maybe things can change for the better in that way. I got some more headlines to share with our panel. A special prosecutor in Virginia says that a former police officer should not be criminally charged after he pepper-sprayed, struck, and handcuffed a black U.S. Army lieutenant.

He did say, however, that the former officer should be investigated by the local U.S. Attorney's Office for civil rights violations. Now, the prosecutor's findings are the latest fallout from the traffic stop of a uniformed Army officer that drew national attention to the small town of Windsor. The man who was pulled over, Karan Nazario, was never charged with a crime. He's suing the two officers who were involved.

I want to go back to my panel, and I'm going to start with you, Dr. Nichols. And I'm thinking about something that Tarun said just now that struck with me, that this has to be a blood tax. And it strikes me as hypocritical and politically inconsistent that so many of those who call themselves fiscal conservatives see the amount of money that municipalities and state

have to put out time and again in these types of settlements, and yet don't exact more pressure on their law enforcement agencies to not do this type of thing, costing said city or state so much money. Am I misreading this to call this politically hypocritical? Dr. Nichols? Uh, no, you're not.

And as a matter of fact, I would go a step farther. And, uh, I and some of my colleagues have called this out and said that, as a matter of fact, what should be done is those If this comes out of their pensions, if you see like in Chicago with literally hundreds of millions of dollars go towards settlements, we've seen, of course, these big settlements in Minneapolis as well, and there are around the country, Baltimore as well, your hometown, I'm about 20 minutes away. So this is something that we see around the country that costs these countries and these cities and not even, you know, wealthy cities. We're talking about poor cities like Baltimore, where there's a housing crisis, where there are all these other

problems in the city. And all the times every year in Baltimore, for example, just using Baltimore as an example, it seems like every year when school starts, they don't have air conditioning for the kids and expect them to learn, or they don't have heat in the winter in the schools. But yet they have millions of dollars to pay out in these settlements. And that's got to stop. And I think the one way we can get the law enforcement community's attention is if we say, OK, you're see a whole lot more officers intervene and say, hey, we need to do this strictly by the book or else you're going to be costing me and my family and my retirement. And I think that could potentially start to make a change there. Now, Dr. Nichols, I got to be honest, man, I'm going to have to take you to the Reginald F.

Lewis African-American History Museum in Baltimore because you're out here banging on my city. And the first time you were right, but you go two or three times, you know, I gotta push back a little bit at that. And I know, I know, the old folks and the southern folks will tell you a hit dog will holler. Call me a hit dog. Call me a hit dog because I am

hollering. The first time I said, yeah, the brother's right, the brother's right. And then you went to second and third and I said, yeah, leave us alone, man. We ain't the only place to struggle with A.C leave us alone, man. We ain't the only place to struggle with AC in our school sometimes. We ain't the only place to struggle with heat in our school sometimes. I went to school at Owings Mills, brother. I'm like 10 minutes away from Baltimore.

So, you know, I won't claim the city because that's disrespectful. You know what I mean? I won't claim the city. But, you know, I'm in the area, and I definitely, I support the city. I want to see the best for Baltimore. And just like I want to in the city. But, you know, I'm in the area, and I definitely support the city. I want to see the best for Baltimore.

And just like I want to see the best for the brothers in Detroit, just like I want to see the best for the brothers in Cleveland, just like I want to see the best for the people in Watts or wherever. But, you know, Baltimore holds a real place in my heart, and that's why I will use it as an example. I want to see the city do better. I don't want another gun trace task force in the city. That's true.

I want to get one more story in for you guys and get your opinions on this one. Talking about people doing better. The six-year-long battle over Prince's estate has finally come to an end. The superstar did not have a will for his $156 million estate. Now, two parties, Prince Legacy LLC

and Prince O-O-AT Holdings LLC, will evenly split the cash. Prince's six half-siblings are the legal heirs to his inheritance since he did not have a spouse or children. Tarun, you know how important economy and economics are in our community. We know how important having a will... We know how important having a will is

so that granddad and grandma's house at least can stay in the family or at least when folks try to buy it up, we can be the beneficiaries of the increased market value. When you hear the story about how Prince's estate was, I don't want to say fought over, because families

have disagreements all the time, but contested. When you hear that story, does it bring you any peace that there's at least a degree of resolution to it? You know, this situation resolved itself a lot quicker than I thought it was going to. When you're dealing with somebody

worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and then you factor in the fact that they have creative work, they could generate revenue for centuries, not just decades, but centuries, if you look at the body of work that Prince created. I'm glad it resolved itself, but I'm also very surprised that somebody who was as hands-on as far as their music, and was so much, to just be honest with you, so much in control of their music and their output and their creativity did not have a will. I don't know why that happened.

I know it might come from the fact that this brother was so caught up in his creativity and he was so all into his artistry that he maybe didn't want to think about what might happen after he was gone. It may have come from the fact that he had people he did not trust and he didn't want to put anybody in position to be able to capitalize on his work prematurely.

I don't know. But I am glad that this resolved. And I'm also glad that we're finally going to get some from apparently from the story that we're going to get new music. Apparently, there's, what, 8,000 songs in the vault apparently that haven't been released. There's about 50 full-length videos that are in that vault that haven't been released that have's about 50 full length videos that are in that vault that haven't been released that have been sitting around, not just from Prince, but from people he worked with.

So it's gonna be interesting to see how that all gets packaged, how that all gets put out there. But to your earlier point, you know, I think it is very important, and this is just another example of the fact that when you start creating a legacy, and when you start creating a product for yourself, whether you're somebody who works at the post office or whether you're somebody who's an artist,

it's very important to set up some sort of plan and some sort of goal for your legacy when you're no longer here. And I know a lot of times we don't like to think about that sort of stuff. But we've got to think about it because unfortunately that day does come for everybody. And we have to think about it and we have to have a plan in place. Absolutely. Especially when that day comes unexpectedly. And I've got one more story that I'm just going to share with our audience before we take a quick break. Beyoncé has announced that a verse from her newly released album,

Renaissance, will be removed for using an ableist slur. In the song, Heated, the words spaz and spazin were used. Now, the term spaz is a derogatory term referring to cerebral palsy. In a brief statement to Rolling Stone, Beyoncé's representative stated, the word not used intentionally in a harmful way will be replaced.

And that's ideally what we want to have happen. Someone says something, someone else tells them that this could be corrected, and someone humbly corrects it. Justice for us all. We're gonna take a quick break. You're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered right here, streaming on the Blackstar Network.

We'll be right back. Sexy to me is the exact same feeling as running water. Ever flowing. Water always finds a way to get through. And so when you know that you're sexy, there are no questions about it. It is an ever flowing emotion. It is an ever flowing feeling. When you it, though, you stop the water. Mm.

I actually, I struggle with this a lot, mainly because I've been told what sexiness should look like, what it should feel like. As a model who did Sports Illustrated, you're told that this is what sells sexy, but then you travel the world, and what's sexy to one person is not sexy to another person. I'm more of a mindfuck kind of person.

How can you stimulate the brain? To me, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Pull up a chair, take your seat. The Black Tape. With me, Dr. Greg Carr, here on the Black Star Network. Every week, we'll take a deeper dive into the world we're living in. Join the conversation only on the Black Star Network.

When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us. Growing. Creating. Making moves. That of us. Growing. Creating. Making moves. To move us all forward. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Hi, I'm Vivian Green. Hey, everybody, this is your man Fred Hammond,

and you're watching Roland Martin, my man, Unfiltered. The ongoing challenges facing Americans demand new solutions to overcome them. An organization out of Chicago is working to offer those new solutions to old problems. The partners in Abolitions, Transformations, Healing, and Solidarity, or PATHs, are offering community-based cooperative solutions to the issues we all deal with. Joining me to discuss this is Renee Hatcher. Renee is an assistant law professor and director of the Community Enterprise and Solidarity Economy Clinic at the University of Illinois Chicago Law School. Renee, thank you so much for taking time to join us here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. So happy to be here with you, Ray. RAY DUBUQUE, I saw that you smirked a little bit when I had to push back on Dr.

Nichols about Baltimore. I know you have a little bit of a fond love for that city as well. So I won't beat up on Dr. Nichols too much. But tell our audience a little bit about what PATHS is and what it's doing out there in Chicago. RENEE ROLAND MARTIN UNFILTERED, Yes. So PATHS, Partners in Abolition, Transformation, and Healing, is a new collaborative of grassroots organizations here in Chicago, as well as worker co-ops, which I heard you shout

out earlier in the show, that ultimately is trying to really put the institutions in the hands of the community to actually solve their own problems, right? So when we talk about, for example, the issues that we see with Black workers or Black job unemployment, what we're trying to do is create institutions, including worker co-ops, where people, Black folks in community can actually own their own jobs, where they can actually own,

collectively own land together and build housing cooperatives so they don't get evicted by their landlords. They become the landlords. We're trying to steward land together and build housing cooperatives so they don't get evicted by their landlords. They become the landlords. We're trying to steward land together. And so we ultimately are trying to push forward an agenda that really revolves around a local solidarity economy, which simply put is just trying to center the needs of actual folks and the limited resources that we know that we have in our planet, in our city here in Chicago. Renee, that sounds ideologically opposite of what we are taught and we're reinforced at every level of our understanding of how success, happiness

works. We're taught this ideological motif of individualism, of others will hold you down, why would I be in a cooperative? Why would I tie my fortunes to the affairs or wills of someone else? They may not work as hard as me, they may not be as engaged as me. How do you speak to those folks who may be, not yet be converts, to want to participate

in such a solidarity economy? Well, so we have a long tradition. Black folks have a long tradition of cooperation and mutualism. Um, since, since we have a long tradition. Black folks have a long tradition of cooperation and mutualism. Since since we were brought over, it's indigenous to our cultures. When we look in ancient Africa and communal cultures, we know that cooperation was like the driving engine and the philosophy behind ultimately how they organize themselves. Right. And so part of it is push, yes, very much pushing back against this idea of Black capitalism, but also this idea of being very individualistic, which we're ingrained with

since, you know, very young ages here. And so what we know is that that has never worked for Black folks, and more or less, like, it is never going to work for the masses of Black people under a capitalist system. So we find that people are actually, as we see more and more crisis within the current economy, as we know, like that the current conditions simply don't work for the majority of our folks, we see people coming to this already. We see folks who are organizing themselves. And the pandemic really was ripe with opportunity. We saw an explosion of mutual aid. We saw how people stepped up for each other when our, you know, government and local agencies simply did not provide for the things that we need. So I think the pandemic was actually a really good experience and it activated a lot more people around this

idea of cooperation and solidarity economy. I know that a lot of folks might get excited hearing transformation. They feel empowered thinking about healing and they are encouraged when they see solidarity. But Renee, you start talking abolition and you're going to lose a lot of folks right there. Because if we're talking this abolition, isn't that that defund the police stuff? And if you get back to that defund the police stuff, what am I gonna do when one of these folks break into my car, or what am I supposed to do when somebody grabs my bag while I walk down the street? Help us think through what we're talking about

when we say abolition and how that functions and what that looks like in a society. Yeah, Ray, well, I've been actually really encouraged by the progress and I think the way in which the defund the police campaign has made it into popular dialect and discussion. And what we're talking about ultimately is that, one, we know that the system that we have currently does not work well for others. You know, ultimately, when your car gets broken into, very, you know, very seldom is there going to be some type of redress beyond being able to be compensated by your insurance.

No one is taking any of that away. What we're trying to do is build institutions within community that are controlled by community that can provide better for our public safety. So what does it look like, for example, when we actually have methods of both accountability and also methods of safety in institutions that we are in control of, where we know that relationships provide, you know, again, more of a support for folks who ultimately find themselves in these various situations? So this is a long process. Ultimately, what we're saying is that we have to both change and transform the economy before we can ever actually live in a world where police don't exist. But beyond that, what we can do right now is start to build the institutions

that actually provide for our public safety, that improve our lives, that improve the underlying conditions that actually lead to crime, or violent crime as we would think of it. So that's ultimately what we're busy doing. We're, like, trying to transform the world right now, institution by institution, and really just getting people to dig in and come together around this idea that we can create different circumstances for ourselves and for our community.

It's interesting you say that. I was talking with a district attorney in Brooklyn, one of the staff attorneys there in the district attorney's office, and he was telling me that approximately 90% of the crime that he sees that comes through their office are crimes of need as opposed to crimes of greed. And so I can understand then when you say if we can remove that need, then we can make a significant dent in the amount of crimes, particularly violent crimes, we have that we see.

Now, so much of this, Renee, so many people might hear and say, hey, I like what that sister is saying, but I live in the real world. I live in the real United States. And so I'm going to go ahead and get up and work for Walmart like I have to. I'm going to go work for the companies, whatever company it may be, like I have to. I don't have time for solidarity economy. I don't have time for these pipe dreams. How are you bridging the gap between the idealism of what it is we're working toward and the realism that so many Americans have to live through? Well, these are real businesses. Co-ops are real businesses. Worker co-ops are real businesses. The majority of worker co-ops, for example, that I work with are run by people who have been exploited in the mainstream economy,

who have worked at Walmart, who've suffered wage theft. Black folks are most likely to suffer wage theft more than any other group, especially here in Chicago. You know, Black workers lose out on millions of dollars each week that they are rightfully owed based off of their work. And so what I see is that people are turning towards solidarity economy solutions like worker cooperatives again, in part because of the very things that you mentioned. It's not that we see we've seen an explosion, I would say, of of these types of institutions, co-ops, mutual aid organizations, other types of enterprises that ultimately are doing this work. And they've worked better,

in part because they're run by the workers themselves. They give a level of agency that otherwise workers simply would not have. I did read a report recently, I think it was just yesterday, that said that worker co-op businesses have, I think, an 80% sustainability over the worker co-op businesses are have a think I 80% sustainability over the first three or four years of their existence as opposed to something around 40% for those private ventures that start and

Unfortunately fail in today's modern economy now This has already been put into practice this solidarity economy worker co-ops and things of the sort and some of the institutions organizations that already exist that you guys are modeling some of your work off of are work that's been done by like folks like Kali Akuno down in Jackson, Mississippi with Cooperation Jackson. How are you modeling some of the work that you've done from those other organizations that already exist and are up and running? So we're trying to take an approach really where we're both working with folks who are already in worker co-ops, but also activating people who are organizers and activists already around incorporating some of these solutions, right? And so we take this framework of not just the resist work, for example,

like resisting state violence, but also building new institutions that actually serve us, that we control, that are community controlled and communityowned, and then also healing our institutions and ourselves as we go through this process, actually transforming ourselves, like trying to shift towards cooperation and away from greed and individualism that we know simply will not work well for us. So we're doing that through a fellowship called the Black Abolitionist Solidarity Economy Fellowship. We started our first cohort this summer of 20 fellows. These are all folks who've had either some type of activist or organizing experience in the past and are now looking towards solidarity economy or looking towards starting things like worker co-ops as a part of their organizing platform,

more or less, or trying to address the issues that they see in their own communities or neighborhoods here in the city of Chicago. Now, PATHS, if I'm not mistaken, is not in and of itself a singular organization, but rather a coalition of a plethora of organizations, including Movement for Black Lives and BYP100 and others. Do I understand that correctly? And if so, how have you all been able to take different organizations who I assume have different goals and objectives and work toward a common goal?

Well, so you're absolutely right. It's a coalition of organizations. We came together around a movement grant through the Woods Fund, a movement grant, in trying to actually build out the solidarity economy and link a lot of the resist work with the build work, right? So these are folks like, as you mentioned, BYP100, like cooperatives like Shy Fresh Commons, which is owned by Black women who have had experiences

with the legal carceral system and now are running their own business together very successfully here in Chicago. And so it's a coalition of orgs and co-ops who are doing this work together. And, you know, we saw the need for it more than anything else. We saw like some folks were doing our work in silos and we saw how it would be, how we can leverage the sum of what's happening right now here in the city in a way that's going to be much more effective if we came together to do this together. So, you know, again, we're kind of creating these institutions, ultimately, that we can

also link to the constituencies that folks have been organizing and the base building that folks have been working towards for years, for decades here in the city of Chicago. Renee, you used two words that I enjoy that you juxtapose them against each other, but I don't want them to get lost, and I want to unpack this. Resisting versus building. When you talk about those two as two different things, what are we talking about, and how does that manifest itself in our real life?

Right. So, you know, there's a lot of work that we have to do around the resist work. And what I mean by that is that there are there are a number of systems that simply do not work for us. There are a number of ways in which the black community in particular and more broadly, our systems are oppressive. So when we think about things, for example, about around state violence, police violence, right, we do a lot of work and we have spent a lot of energy resisting state violence that happens in Black communities. And that work is really important. Also, what we have to do is build our own institutions that actually can help us collectively live fuller, better,

more improved lives, like allow us to flourish, allow us to build community, allow us to access the food, the housing, the things that we need. And so that is the build work. That is the reimagining work of creating institutions that actually are controlled and also give life, right, to Black folks in ways that are affirming. This is not new work. We know that there's a long history of Black cooperation. All the folks are luminaries. We're all involved in this work, everyone, from Ella Baker to W.E.B. Du Bois.

We know that this is a part of the work that we have to do and that these institutions are the ones that ultimately will support us, uh, in those times of need. Rene, I've got one more question and then I want to bring my panel in because I have three really sharp folks that I think might want to engage you on this conversation. But this question, you talk about imagination and to be frank, life is hard, right? Groceries are expensive. Gas is expensive. Utilities are expensive. If you got kids, my kids are expensive. I think we might have lost Renee, but we'll bring her back in one

second. I was going to bring the panel in, and I'll start with you, Dr. Haynes. I don't know if you had a chance to hear what we were talking with Renee about, about building out this collaborative initiative, but it sounds that with things being so challenging and so expensive, how do folks find the space and the wherewithal to come together? I think we may have Renee,

I'm sorry, Dr. Haynes, to pitch you a question and then have to pull back for a second, but I do want to hear from Renee before we bring in our panel. Renee, what I was going to just ask you is, life is hard. How do I have the time? How do we expect working folks, working black folks, working white folks, working people of all kinds to create this imagination necessary to recreate new institutions or systems when we're hard enough just trying to survive the institutional systems that we exist in right now? Yeah. No, Ray, I think that's exactly right.

And that's in part why these strategies are so important. So, for example, what I have seen is that people are using for-profit co-ops that are collectively owned by its workers as a space of organizing. Right? So it allows you, one, in a way to run a business, to sustain yourselves financially. At the same time, these co-ops are engaged politically. So these become sites of both political activation and also just in terms of getting the things that you need, right? It allows you to do that in a different way. And I think that's why this type of approach can be really helpful, especially to us, right? In part, because we know folks are just always a lot of times trying to survive or just simply do not have the types of time when you have two, three jobs

and you're not going to make the community meeting, right? And so trying to rethink how we approach this and to allow more people both to access on ramps of political activation and to do this work. Renee, I've got, as I mentioned, three really sharp folks here with us, and I'm going to start with Dr. Nola Haynes out of Georgetown University. Dr. Haynes, if you have a question for Renee

or if you wanted to just bat some ideas back with her, I give you the floor to feel free to do that. Renee, so first of all, thank you so much for everything that you are doing. And I completely agree with you in terms of imagination. I think that we all saw when the world stopped, the entire world stopped when COVID hit. We all had to get imaginative. We all had to think differently. We all had to think outside of the box. So my question is for you, how do you think people who

are exhausted from constantly engaging, constantly being told it's up to us to save democracy. It's up to us to, you know, to keep fighting. You know, the way that I think about it is, you know, especially with Black people, you know, we're tired of cleaning up. You know, we've been cleaning up for a long time and it seems like we are always tasked with cleaning up. So how do you address that? How do you deal with the folks that are legitimately just tired of always having to clean up? Yeah. Well, you know, I think one of the positive things is that we've all had to turn ourselves inward and like focus on our own healing. And Audre Lorde talks about this fact that healing not being an individual process, like being able to heal most effectively when

you're in community with others, right? And so that's what that's what I find is is helpful in this moment. It's just like not simply trying to tinker at the edges as you are. We're talking earlier, tinker at the edges or simply roll back, for example, to the very limited sense of democracy that we had, you know, maybe 10, 20 years ago before the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act. But how do we expand our ideas of democracy? And that has always been a part of the Black radical tradition in trying to push and deepen how we practice democracy. And in part, I think that those tools and also trying to provide those spaces of community and support are what kind of allows us to, you know, rejuvenate ourselves,

to regenerate ourselves. We know, especially at this moment, it feels like so many things in the world are going wrong. I think that being in community with folks and actually doing that work together, doing that reimagining together is the thing that keeps us going. It's the thing that gets us excited. It's the thing that makes me not get discouraged every day, in part because I know that all these folks are working towards a better world. And it looks very different than simply, you know, tinkering at the edges or just a few changes that simply will not equal freedom for most of my folks. Tarun, I want to hear from you. What do you have for Renee Hatcher? Well, first off, Renee, much respect to the work you're doing.

I think it's very vital work, so respect to you for that. My question to you is this. It sounds like a lot of what you're building with your initiative is based in some of the things that our collective way of thinking almost goes back to the point of the Black Creative Breakfast Program and some of the things that our collective way of thinking almost goes back to the point of the Black Panther Breakfast Program and some of the cops that were happening there. A lot of that energy seems to have kind of faded out over the past couple of decades.

And a lot of our collective way of thinking is moving to an individualist way of thinking. So what I want to ask you is, how have you been able to move the communities that you serve out of an individualist way of thinking into a collective community way of thinking? Yeah, I think that's hard, right, because I do think that there's, you know, I think that we're running up against like a cultural transformation. And we're thinking about cultural tools, right, I think, to address some of that as well. But in part, you know, folks, once you realize that simply the system that we're in,

that this idea of like individual wealth and charity, or this idea of like, I'll get wealthy and I'll give back to my community or to my neighborhood, like that simply is not going to structurally change things for the masses of black people. I think if folks are committed to their communities, like once they get past that, once they understand that systematically, I think it becomes much easier in terms of like, okay, we need a different way of thinking. We need a different way of approaching this together. Simply like billionaires like Rihanna and Jay-Z are not going to save the black community, y'all. And beyond that, it's like, what we really have to think about is both ownership and control of the things that folks need to survive. Um, and so that's why we're pushing towards

and trying to activate people around community land trusts and cooperative housing and worker co-ops and mutual aid organizations, but also with a Black politic to- to really highlight the ways in which this system currently works for us. Now, I got to be honest, Dr. Nichols, I boxed you in so you could have the least amount of time because I knew that you were talking bad about Renee and Oz Baltimore. No, go right ahead. We are coming close to time, but Dr. Nichols, please offer your question. Feel free to offer your comment to Renee Hatcher. Sure. Thank you so much, Renee, for coming on.

My question is, you know, a lot of times when we have these academic ideas about how we can better the community, they get pushback because people don't see how it's working. They think that it's just something in our heads. Now, so my question is, is there like an international model or some sort of model somewhere that you can point to that's been successful over a long period of time? I know I taught about the UNIA just a few hours ago to my students, and I'm thinking about something. Is there something that you can point to that lasted, you know, for maybe generations and has been successful over a long period of time? Yeah, well, I would argue that Black folks have been practicing solidarity economy for a very long time,

and it is, like, one of the ways that we've both resisted and kept us resilient and alive and here. So when we think about things like Maroonage, when we think about runaway slaves creating community and actually providing for each other, like there are a plethora of examples. But then there are also international examples like Mondragon, which is based in Spain, which ultimately has become one of the largest cooperation networks of cooperatives. They have been very successful and they've used worker co-ops as well as a cooperative bank or credit union to ensure that they consistently have full employment for their people that are in the BATH region of Spain. And these are folks who were specifically left out of the mainstream economy, who were marginalized in

society and in their own context. And so that is a common example that we point to that started very small, that started simply with a school and a bank and one worker co-op, and now is a large conglomerate of worker co-ops that ultimately have hundreds and hundreds of jobs and do millions of dollars in revenue every year. And so that's one example to point to. This is, you know, I like to tell people that this is not pie in the sky. At the same time, that's not necessarily what we're trying to build here. We want to make sure that what we're building is very much grounded in the grassroots and grounded in Black communities on a very small level. And then we're trying to think about scale simply in a different way to create many of these types of institutions that really provide locally for the things that people need instead of trying to become, you know,

the next Fortune 500 company that simply happens to be a worker co-op. Renee, I appreciate your time. Quickly, tell folks how they can find more information about PATH, about what your work you're doing, even if you would like to let us know about the work you're doing in the University of Illinois, Chicago with the Solidarity Economy there. Please tell folks. Yeah, so they can find me at the uic.edu. My clinic is called the Community Enterprise and Solidarity Economy Clinic. We provide free legal support to community-based businesses, grassroots organizations, and worker co-ops and other types of cooperatives.

And then they can find more information about PATHS on opencollective.com backslash PATH Chicago. And all of our information is there. I really appreciate the time, Ray. Absolutely. And hopefully you and I can reconnect this fall when we link up for the 50th anniversary of the National Black Political Convention. The National Black Political Convention of 1972 this year marks 50 years since the 72 convention that was held in my hometown, Gary, Indiana. My father, Richard Hatcher, was one of the co-conveners of that convention. And it's really a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful just point in our history

of this idea of Black folks coming together around, right, radical imagination, around deepening democracy. So I look forward to talking to you more about that soon. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Renee Hatcher, for your time. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. We will be

right back. When we invest in ourselves, our glow, our vision, our vibe, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Hi, I'm Dr. Jackie Hood-Martin, and I have a question for you. Ever feel as if your life is teetering and the weight and pressure of the world is consistently on your shoulders? Well, let me tell you, living a balanced life isn't easy. Join me each Tuesday on Black Star Network for a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. We'll laugh together, cry together, pull ourselves together, and cheer each other on. So join me for new shows each Tuesday on Black Star Network, A Balanced Life with Dr. Jackie. When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us.

Growing, creating, making moves that move us all forward. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Hey, I'm Antonique Smith. Hello, we are Black beyond measure. A former WNBA player is using her love of sports and technology to inspire children to learn about STEM. STEAM Champs. The STEAM Champs Foundation, Ball and Technology combines sports, coding, and robotics to introduce children into the vast world of technology. Naisha Butler, founder of STEAM Champs, joins us now.

Ms. Butler, thank you so much for taking time to join us here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Hi, thank you for having me. So excited. So STEAM is something that's relatively new from what I understand. Now, I know a lot of folks understood what STEM was, if I'm not mistaken, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, but we can't forget about the arts, and so we include the A for STEAM.

How is your program introducing the STEAM concept to young people? Well, we have a mixture of coding classes where kids play games and they make games. We do chess so that they have unplugged activities. So we definitely work on their focus and attention and just getting their mind to be creative. And we have coding robotics chess. And we do music theory. We kind of try to tackle the whole person. We do ages as young as five,

um, because the whole idea is to get kids to start early, uh, and learning these technical fields and the vernacular and all this kind of stuff. So it's a fun... it's a fun place. We try to use, like, sports themes, arts themes, to actually teach technical topics. And, you know, the kids like it, so... So often, we try to find our young people,

and we found that we pigeon-holed them far too early, right? If you're going to be an engineer, we're sending you to engineering camp from age 12 up into forever. If you're a basketball player, you're only supposed to play basketball. And if you don't love basketball with your heart and soul, then what are you doing here? How are you integrating these myriad of experiences from music theory to chess to even coding and to produce this well-rounded young young people that you're engaging well america as a whole has a technical problem um there's obviously a digital divide um we have hundreds of thousands of jobs making six figures that lay

empty um that are you know you can go pro in in actually these areas and these arenas. So in general, kids, especially our kids, don't have technical skills. They're not going to engineering camps. They're not going to math camps early. Sometimes when they get older, it's kind of hard. It's kind of like a computer language is exactly what is a language. And the earlier you get exposed to it, the better you are at it. So that whole 10,000-hour rule is a real thing. The difference, though, in starting your course early with coding and technical skills and digital skills is that every single career in the future is going to be tech-enabled somehow or some way.

So the idea is that whatever it is, if it's something in art, if it's reporting, if it's communication, whatever the case may be, in addition to obviously like engineering and STEM related fields, you're going to have something to be tech enabled. So the idea is that we really need to close this digital gap. We need to equip our kids with options and necessary foundational skills so that whatever they choose to, they're equipped to do well at it. Languaging is something I'm curious about. When you approach folks to let them know that you have this STEAM program, are they still reticent to join on because STEAM is not as popular

or well-known as STEM is? Yeah, it's just about education, right? So, like, A, for arts, the idea is that we have to really be creative in getting kids' attention. That's how I use the arts. The idea is that there's a lot of creative kids that probably are shunned from doing some kind of tech and robotic stuff. But how do we include those kids because their minds are just as bright as any other kid? So the idea is just finding creative ways to hook a kid in,

to have them interested, to keep their attention, and also have a fun way. Like, my center is not specifically to make a doctor, to make an engineer. What our idea is to give the kids confidence. That's why we call them champions. And the foundational skills to do what they want with it. So the arts is kind of just something that we use to kind of sugarcoat what we're trying to teach them. And it actually works. So, you know, we use to kind of sugarcoat what we're trying to teach them. And it actually works.

So, you know, we use basketball, we use sports, we use all kinds of things to keep them interested. Because oftentimes, if kids can't relate to it, they clock out. And so we try to teach these principles and these STEM kind of topics in a way that they understand and that they're interested in.

What has been some of the feedback that you've gotten from your peers, perhaps former athletes and teammates, in a way that they understand and that they're interested in. What has been some of the feedback that you've gotten from your peers, perhaps former athletes and teammates, perhaps those who you might have gone to school with in college? What is the feedback that you've gotten once they've found out that you've put your two feet into this work?

Well, I went to Georgia Tech, so most of my friends are engineers anyway. Um, and Georgia Tech actually graduates, um, the highest percent of black engineers in the country. But I recognize, with that said, I recognize that that's special and that's different and that's so far from the norm. I chose specifically to open up my center in Brooklyn, in downtown Brooklyn, because there are not many black engineers around here. There are not many STEM scientists. And most of these kinds of

centers are in affluent neighborhoods. They're in suburban neighborhoods. So I wanted to bring this to the kids of the neighborhood that I grew up in, because I think there's a lot of talent and there's a lot of creativity and there's a lot of smarts. And I think these kids need just as much as opportunities than the other kid to explore STEM fields where they can go pro and they can get rid of this generational curse, which a lot of our societies play with at times. So that's the whole point of bringing this to Brooklyn and bringing this to the inner city and using topics that generally are in the inner city, but don't necessarily yield a professional career that they can go into. And the idea is that we're right here.

We know that New York City kids take the train a lot. We know that parents are busy, but we know that they're, you know, some of the New York finest, you know, in the country. So we give a quality STEM education that's right down the street, very close to all trains. And we want to not only be a center, an educational center, but a resource. We provide mentorship. We provide classes for parents. And we're here in the neighborhood to really be a resource for all the kids and adults to use us so we can close this gap. So, you know, we were talking in an earlier segment about organizing for like solidarity, economy and democracy and all that. But you still have to do your own form of organizing, because if I walk out to the street,

say, hey, kid, you want to come play with robots? It may be a difficult go of it. How is it that you're able to sell to our young people that what you're inviting them to do is actually fun? Yeah, I mean, the whole thing about kids, all kids like to play games. Oftentimes what I found with our kids, they like to play games too,

they just can't afford these five, $600 a piece robots behind me. You know, so it, you know, when you get a kid who's not exposed to STEM, interestingly enough, these products are for kids and they're, they, they use play and learning as something that is easily to, to combine the two. So that's what we do. And what I found that these kids like it. They love playing. They love putting stuff. They love building. They love creating. We definitely encourage their imagination in a lot of ways. And we're really building champions in the sense that we give them confidence. We understand repetition. And my background in sports, we bring that into this. you really gotta work we allow them to figure stuff out on their own so we really keep them

um active uh with stuff that they can uh you know get their brains going and we encourage them to keep going at it now miss butler you sound so positive and wholesome here but i know athletes and athletes have that competitive fire, that drive. So everybody doesn't get to be a champion. Most of the pushback that we get to participation trophies come from former athletes, in fact. And so when you're competing, playing chess with the kids, or when you're maybe gaming with them,

does any of your former athlete come out and really strive to succeed against those young people? Well, of course. I mean, I'm from the... I guess it's the old school now. I don't necessarily believe in participation trophies. I believe that people have to earn things. And in this center, as a head of this center,

I think that permeates through everything. And I really say that you can have fun, but you have to put work into this. This is not something that you can just come in and, you know, not apply yourself. That's all we really want. We want application. We have great esteemed coaches. We want them to try to do it. And I know what it takes. I know that kids can get up in the morning to play basketball. I've been one of those kids. I know it is really easy because as a society and in our communities, we support that.

We give trophies to the 50 point person. We give trophies to the 50-point person. We give trophies to all Americans. We really support the sports stars. But I want the community to get behind the STEM stars. I want them to get behind kids who are going to come in, you know, and we're going to have robotics hackathons in Brooklyn. We're going to have, we're going to support our young kids and give them a way that they can compete and they can shine through. No, I don't believe in participation trophies. All my kids are going to work. And my idea is, my job is to prepare them for life. And in life, you have to work hard. You have to go for what you want to get. And I also am an optimist. Life is awesome. Like right now, life is great for me.

Like life is good, but you really have to work. And I think that this environment is a place where it's fun, it's safe, and we foster confidence. I want every one of my kids to step through the door to shine and shine bright. But, yeah, they're going to have to put some work into everything and figuring out, because bugs and problems and code, as we all know, is all around us. So, no, we're building real champions here, not paper champions. You also said with a smile, they're going to have to get used to losing to Ms. Butler occasionally because I'm here to win.

But, you know, Ms. Butler, we're broadcasting across the United States into the continent of Africa, throughout the diaspora, and everywhere else in the world where folks want to watch us. And you mentioned something that struck my attention. You talked about the rewards of society, right?

Basketball, we see the rewards so people are inspired to get up and practice. In other industries, we see the rewards. How do you help the young people and their parents see the rewards and incentives of STEAM programs? So, it's about... I'm a numbers girl, and it's really simple. I think people don't really understand this. So, right now, there's 40 million 40 million approximately kids that play sports in America.

This is all sports. And there's what, 200 NBA players, 250, 350 NFL players. And they keep LeBron James has been the lead for a while. He's not giving up his spot anytime soon. My my narrative is telling people the truth and look at the numbers. Any kid, and I went pro, I'm a part of that 1%. I know uniquely how small this, you know, this brother and sisterhood is of going professional sports or even getting a college scholarship. But my idea is that you literally can go pro 100% in a STEM career in any version you want that to be. And I just want to make sure that parents understand that. And it's not about the fact that this is some far out of reach thing. I'm a New York City kid. I played ball too. And I'm a software engineer. And the reason why

I push that narrative, because I really feel like if I can do it, anybody can do it with work. You know, I had to work for it, and I think this is something that if people understand, just like in sports or anything else you go after, you work for it. The percentages are way higher at going pro and having a sustainable long-term career that you don't have to ice your knees with. And I think it's not a hard sell. I just think that our communities and people as a whole don't understand how in reach this actually is. If a kid starts at six, seven years old, eight, nine, building games, how cool is that? You know what I mean?

Like, we don't know the capacity of these young kids. I mean, these kids, honestly, they surprise me all the time. We have rock stars in our group from the South Bronx to Brooklyn. We have rock stars. I'm telling you, these kids are bright, but they need a chance. They need high-class education. They need quality education, and they need support. They don't need to be called the nerdy kids.

They don't need to be separated from the athletes. These are champions. These are people, too, And you can do both, you know? So, so my, my thing that I want to push the parents and school teachers and even athletes, because I think athletes need to really understand how special and different they are. LeBron James is really a percent of a percent of a percent. Steph Curry is a percent of a percent. But Katherine Johnson, who put someone to move in the deficit, she's a percent. But you can be it. Nassau is actively trying to recruit players. The Lakers are not actively trying to recruit. Well, the Knicks, we should.

But they're not actively trying to recruit. There's a draft. Google, Microsoft, Apple. These companies are trying their hardest to recruit diverse candidates, and we need to step up to that challenge. America as a whole. Absolutely. Now, Ms. Butler, I will have to push back on one thing. Sitting in Roland's chair,

I'd be remiss if I didn't push back. You said you want to be able to earn your living and make your keep without having to ice your knees. Today was leg day for me in the gym. I'm icing my knees as we speak. You just can't see it under this desk. So I do want to let the kids know that when age creeps up on you, you will still have to ice those knees. Ms. Butler, tell folks how they can find, follow, and support STEAM Champs, please. Yeah, go to www.steamchamps.com. Our emails are there. Our classes are there. Every Saturday in the month of August, we're giving free first-time customers coding, robotics, design, and chess classes. And weekly, we have Monday through Friday STEM camps where kids come

in and they learn everything from basketball, coding, chess, and all around fun time. We have Field Trip Fridays where we do STEM-related field trips, art-related field trips. So come on down to the center, pop your head in, look on the website. We have events. You know, shoot me an email. I'm constantly trying to, you know, expand our staff,

teach people, and just really be a resource to the community. So repost, share my stuff, and come out and check out one of our classes that is miss naisha butler former wmba player and founder of steam's champs we thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule miss butler for joining us here on roland martin unfiltered thank you so much and before we get out of here i want to go back to our panel brother walker now that we made through, please say and pronounce your first name correctly out loud, because these folks heard me butcher it

for the last two hours, and my deepest apologies go to you. It's all good, brother. You're not as bad as the coffee shop, so it's all good. But my name was pronounced, um, Torin like foreign. That's the best way to remember it. It's like foreign. Torin. Torin like a war tool. Brother Torin Walker, the founder of Context Media,

we thank you so much. Dr. Jason Nichols,, the founder of Context Media. We thank you so much. Dr. Jason Nichols, the senior lecturer of African American Studies at the University of Maryland College Park. We thank you and appreciate you for your time. And our dear sister, Dr. Nola Haynes, PhD, MDiv. Whether you want to get a theory theoretically or theologically, she got you. We got you either way.

I thank you guys for rolling with us so far today. You've been so much so helpful, so informative, so illuminating to our guests and to all of our audience. Thank you so much for your time and attention today. And I want to thank everybody in the control room. I know folks don't normally get that kind of thanks, but I want to make sure I offer my thanks to all those folks in the control room.

They are the reason that this production goes so smoothly. They are some fantastic folks from script writers to producers, the guest bookers, and all the folks around. They are the ones who make sitting in this chair a little bit easier. So those times when Roland's not here, and I know, I know the folks in the community. Y'all miss y'all boy Roland. He won't be here short enough. But when those times that he's not here and the rest of us fill in, they're the reason why this show can continue to succeed as well as it does. So I offer a big thank you and much appreciation to them. And I thank you all the audience for giving me this space. It is not a sacred space unless you agree

to let me have me here. And I am appreciative that you all would do that. And so thank you. And in parting, let us remember the words of the Yerba proverb, that if we stand tall, it is because we stand on the backs of those who came before us.

And if Roland is gone, blue fire to all my Sigma brothers. God bless and good night. This is an iHeart Podcast.