#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Celebrating the Life of Charles Ogletree Jr, LA Angola Juveniles Plea, MN Police Depart Restructures

Episode Date: August 5, 2023

8.4.2023 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Celebrating the Life of Charles Ogletree Jr, LA Angola Juveniles Plea, MN Police Depart Restructures We mourn the loss of renowned attorney and legal scholar Charles Ogletree tonight. We will celebrate Ogletree's impact on the legal profession, speak to those who knew him, and share the indelible mark he left behind. The Department of Justice is investigating a predominantly black Louisiana juvenile Facility after multiple allegations of abuse. Attorney Ron Haley joins us to shed light on this situation. I got to sit down with author Alvin D. Hall about his book, "Driving the Green Book: A Road Trip Through the Living History of Black Resistance." Just wait until you hear our conversation about his groundbreaking book. Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV. The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. "See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Today is Friday, August 4th, 2023. Coming up, I'm Roland Martin, unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network, live from the National Association of Black Journalists Commission in Birmingham.

We have lost a legal titan. Harvard professor Charles Ogletree, lawyer, professor, activist, passed away this morning. He had been battling early onset Alzheimer's for the last several years. We will talk with students who he taught as well as fellow lawyers and talk about his impact on African Americans in this country. The Department of Justice, they are looking into a predominantly black Louisiana juvenile facility after multiple allegations of abuse. We'll talk to Attorney Ron Haley about this issue. Folks, I sat down with Alvin Hall, who is the author of Driving the Green Book, a road trip through the living history of black resistance. It's a conversation you do not want to miss.

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You know he's Rollin' Martin Now Martin Martell ¶¶ Folks, it is a sad day for those of us who knew Dr. Charles Ogletree, longtime Harvard law professor. He was the teacher for so many individuals who went through those halls, including President Barack Obama and so many others. He died this morning of Alzheimer's. Well, he had been battling early set Alzheimer's for the last several years. The impact of the

scholar is absolutely undeniable. He represented the survivors of the 1921 Tulsa race riot. He represented Anita Hill in her confirmation hearings. He founded the Charles Hamilton Houston Institute at Harvard to honor Charles Hamilton Houston, a 1922 Harvard Law graduate who worked to dismantle Jim Crow laws and spearhead the legal strategy to integration in Public Schools. His contributions extend way beyond the classroom, moderating numerous conversations, numerous discussions. We often, of course, had him on my shows over the years. I knew him very well. The thing about Charles, he hated to be called Chuck.

A lot of times you'll have folks like Charles Brockley, some call him Chuck. And, in fact, his e-mail was no Chuck at a particular e-mail service. It is a significant loss. When he was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's, it was hard to fathom that somebody who was so eloquent, somebody who was so learned, someone who was so impactful was losing their memory. I can tell you it was, and I'm going to find the photo in a second. It was very painful when he was honored by the NAACP at the Image Awards a few years ago.

And in the package that they presented, they didn't mention him being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. And he comes out, curtains come up, present him the award, and he says, thank you. And that was it. A lot of people in the audience were sort of like, what's going on? Is he not going to talk longer? But it was the Alzheimer's. In fact, we were in the VIP gifting suite afterwards, and I spoke to him. We took a photo and he said to me, all of these people keep coming up to me, congratulations, and I don't know why.

He said, but I'll take it. And I want to actually start crying right then because he didn't know. But folks, if you knew Charles Ogletree, you understood he was flat out a dominant figure. What's interesting is that tomorrow on Martha's Vineyard with Charles Hamilton Houston Institute, they're going to have their annual lecture series. He invited me to Martha's Vineyard on two or three occasions to participate in that conversation. Again, just an unbelievable human being, a legal scholar, someone who was looked upon and sought after by so many of our people on some of the most important issues of the second half of the 21st century. Joining us right now is Barbara Arnwine. She is, of course, president and founder of the Transformative Justice Coalition. Also joining us is Tanya Washington-Hicks, professor at Georgia State University College of Law in Atlanta. Glad to have both of them with us. Barbara, so many people, again, those who did not know

Charles Ogletree may not realize just how significant he was to a whole generation of black lawyers. And I mean, he meant everything to the National Bar Association. We just ended our 98th annual convention in Minneapolis just yesterday. Last night was the last day of the conference. And I want to tell you that I remember back in Houston when he gave his farewell speech, we were all so shocked. We said, what is a farewell speech? Why is Charles doing this? And he announced that he had, you know, early on Alzheimer's. And he came up to me afterwards, Roland, and my heart just cracked because he said, Barbara, don't ever forget me. He says, I might forget you, but don't ever forget me. And I just want people to know that without Charles Ogletree, or Tree as we love to call

him, there is no Me Too movement. There's no sexual harassment movement, because his representation of Anita Hill and elevating that issue was his work. And he convinced her to really use that whole formation, that whole formulation of talking about sexual harassment. People don't understand that without Charles Ogletree, the entire modern, what we call criminal law movement would not, criminal justice in the law movement would not exist. He formulated that. People don't understand that, you know, he loved to talk about education. His representation of the Tulsa massacre victims

was incredible. I mean, he was par excellence, everything we want a Black lawyer to be. And when he talks about Charles Hamilton Houston, he didn't talk about him. He walked in his footsteps. I will never forget this amazing man. His legacy lives on. The National Bar could not be what it is today without him. He helped shape a generation, generations of powerful, amazing Black lawyers who wanted to be just like him. Tonya, he taught at Harvard, but his impact went beyond Harvard. He was sought after by so many people, whether they were other students, but also professors at other law schools? He was simply brilliant. He was a brilliant educator, a brilliant activist. He was generous.

I had the opportunity to work closely with him during my time at Harvard Law School, and everyone from the facilities workers to people he saw on the street who asked him for help. He was a public servant and a leader servant. And for him to be able to span the years and also kind of the breadth of, you know, those who are known and those who are not known and be humble in all spaces and be respected in all spaces and be present in all spaces. I mean, I have a very happy heart because I wanted to be the kind of professor that he is. He loved his students to understanding, as Maya Angelou talks about. And he told us, you have a responsibility to your people. You are not here for yourself or by yourself. And I expect you to do for your people what others have done to make it possible for you to be in these spaces. And I won't miss him, but his legacy will live on in all the people that he served. Barbara, he availed himself to so many folks.

We talk about a lot of those things, the Black America discussions Tavis Smiley had, but whether it was National Bar Association, Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, I mean, on and on and on. I mean, he was ubiquitous. He was all, I mean, if it was a black event, it's a good bet Charles Ogletree would be showing up. And he would be showing out because he would bring such, you know, brilliance to every discussion. And he had that broad range of

vision. I mean, he wasn't just narrow-minded at all. You know, I just recall some of the conversations that he had with Randall Robinson, who also, you know, has recently departed. But he, you know, was at that forefront of the reparations movement. He was, you know, really out there. He helped so many of us to expand our thinking. And what he loved to tell me, you know, when we would talk sometimes, he would just say, Barbara, remember, we came from the housing projects. You know, he was very, very, that was part of his humility, is that he remembered, you know, our origins, and he never wanted to get far away from the people from whom he came and that he saw the brilliance of our future.

He saw the bright lights of, you know, these new legal minds, and he encouraged people so much. And there was no room he did not walk into that he didn't light up. He was amazing. We are so grateful to his legacy, and we will carry forth in his name. You can imagine, Roland, all the events that are going to be held

to pay tribute to his remarkable legacy because I will never forget him strolling out on those PBS series, the ultimate consummate, amazing host. I mean, he was everything. And all of us just sat there and we were like, oh, my God, look, he takes it to another level every single time. His defense, Bill Gates, you know, of, you know, Henry Louis Gates during the, quote, you know, whole incident with the police, you know, raiding his home and then arresting him. I mean, Charles was just there. He was there. He was always present. He didn't waste a minute of his time

on this earth. And we're grateful to him because none of us could have been who we are without Charles. Every single one of us, he rubbed off on us. He left an influence, a, you know, a taint deep into our souls, you know, based on his inspiration. Love him always, forever. Tanya, Tanya, your final comments. You know, I'm a leaf on his tree. You know, he poured into others and instilled in us a sense of responsibility. And so, as Barbara said, like our his legacy will live on in the work that we do. And he he laid the foundation for a bright future for Black people around the

world. And it is now our job to pick up the mantle and continue on with the work. Barbara, Tanya, we both appreciate you sharing your thoughts regarding the passing of Charles Ogletree. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Folks, when we come back, we'll hear from Congresswoman Terri Sewell. I caught up with her when I was hosting the CBC Town Hall here.

And she was absolutely just shocked and stunned to hear about her former professor becoming an ancestor today at the age, passed away this morning. Folks, you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. Hatred on the streets, a horrific scene, a white nationalist rally that descended. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding.

But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams,

and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary

mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Dr Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.

We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams,

NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. White people are losing their damn minds. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storm to the U.S. Capitol.

We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the rise of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people.

The fear that they're taking ourens, America's Wealth Coach, the studies show that millennials and Gen Xers will be less well off than their parents. What can we do to make sure that we get to children younger and that they have the right money habits? Well, joining me on the next Get Wealthy is an author who's created a master playbook. Be willing to share some of your money mistakes, right? If that's what you have to lean on, start with the money mistakes that you have made, but don't just tell the mistake, right? Tell the lesson in the mistake. That's right here on Get Wealthy, only on Blackstar Network.

Hi, I'm Jo Marie Payton, voice of Sugar Mama on Disney's Louder and Prouder Disney+. And I'm with Roland Martin on Unfiltered. Folks, welcome back to Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Congresswoman Terri Sewell of Alabama studied under Charles Ogletree at Harvard Law School. And I was moderating the town hall today at Congressional Black Caucus with the Congressional Black Caucus Institute Town Hall taking place at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute and had an opportunity for her to share some words about her mentor, Charles Ogletree. So, Courage Woman, just your thoughts about the great No Chuck Ogletree. Yes. What can I say?

He was, today we lost a legal giant, a giant among giants. This is a man who selflessly gave up his time and energy to all of us as law students. He made every one of us feel as if we were his best student. He supported us in our dreams and our aspirations, and he was always there to pick us up if we didn't meet those aspirations. From President Obama to myself, so many of those of us who are in elected office wouldn't be where we are if it wasn't for the support and the encouragement of Charles Ogletree. I think he had the best email listserv. It was nochuck at AOL.com. And when he put it out on the circuit that someone he believed in was running for public office, the money started pouring in. That's

who he was as a person. He was all about not just his own personal advancement, but the advancement of all of us. And he was relentless in his belief in black excellence. And I am just forever indebted to him as my law professor, as my mentor, and as my friend. Charles Ogletree was 70 years old. I want to bring in my panel right now, joining us on today's show, Matt Manning, civil rights attorney out of Corpus Christi. We also have Michael M. Hotep, host of the African History Network show, Calabathea Communications Strategist. Glad to have all three of you here. Matt, I want to start with you. If you are a black lawyer, you did not know who Charles Ogletree was, your black card probably needs to be revoked. Yeah, you're not paying attention.

You know, and I'm so glad that you had the sisters on, especially the professor at Georgia State, because what I think, you know, Professor Ogletree embodied, I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but is the responsibility that I have tried to explain that I feel as a black lawyer. I think it's so important that we understand how important it is to work on behalf of the people. And I tell people, you know, my law license is our law license. Now, obviously, I'm the one practicing, but there's a sense of responsibility. And when you look at somebody like Professor Ogletree, Charles Ogletree, you have not only a titan, but you have someone who never allowed his success to sever him from the people. And I think that's the important thing to take from this is that, one, you can make such important inroads on behalf of your people with being the best at what you do. But beyond that, you can never forget for whom you do it.

And that's the lesson that I learned by, you know, just his legal titan nature and just the fact that he pioneered so many things that, you know, we're still talking about today and particularly from the standpoint of where he did it, because I don't think that there is, you know, we have to discuss basically the fact that it's not lost on us that he was teaching at Harvard, went to some of the best universities in the country and was spearheading some of the most complex and interesting legal theories and legal philosophies from that perspective. So I just think it's important to, if you're a black lawyer,

to recognize not only the standard of excellence that he set, but the standard of responsibility that we all should aspire to uphold. Because I think we're duty bound by virtue of our opportunity to make sure we foster betterment for our people. Absolutely. Michael, Matt said something, I think Barbara said the same thing in terms of how he availed himself to the public. And that's the thing. I mean, he would do black on radio. He would be speaking to various groups. I mean, he was a lot of places. He was not just sitting here being in the rarefied air of the halls of Harvard. He was out there among the people engaged in many of the prominent issues of the day involving African-Americans. Yeah. And not only that, but when he talked,

you didn't have to consult a dictionary to understand what the hell he was saying either, like some of these other, like some of these pseudo-intellectuals you have out here. But I remember Charles Ogletree in different aspects, probably most prominently for his work dealing with suing on behalf of reparations, his work seeking to get reparations for the survivors of the Tulsa Race Massacre. He was in the 2008 documentary called Before They Die, which is about the Tulsa Race Massacre and fighting for justice for the survivors. He also was suing for trying to get reparations for slavery as well outside of the Tulsa Race Massacre. He was an attorney for Tupac Shakur before Tupac was killed. He was also, now people remember him on the national stage as well.

He was part of the legal team for Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. So there's so many different aspects in which he was in the national spotlight. So this is a tremendous loss. You know, I didn't go to law school like my two colleagues here. I was supposed to go to law school, but ended up going to business school. But I was still very aware of Charles Ogletree. And we also know, you know, he was lost prematurely, but also Johnny Cochran, who also was trying to sue for reparations for African-Americans. Johnny Cochran was the giant who was lost prematurely, but also Johnny Cochran, who also was trying to sue

for reparations for African-Americans. Johnny Cochran was the giant who was lost prematurely as well. So I think there's a lot can be learned from Charles Ogletree and understanding, even though he was a law professor at Harvard, he was from the people and for the people, OK? And he also taught us to really understand the power of law, why it's important for us to understand law as well, not just history. So this is a tremendous loss.

Kelly, 2016, he was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's, passes away just seven years later. It was 2018 where it sparked a huge concern for many of us when he went for a walk and was missing. I remember probably shortly after he made the announcement, we were supposed to have a one-time journal morning show. And I remember talking to him, and he said, hey, Roland. He said, not a problem. He said, call me after this number.

I'll be walking the dog. And we called, and he never answered. He never answered. And that's when he never answered. He never answered. And that's when, you know, it was real. And to lose this unbelievable mind just seven years after being diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's just tells you how devastating this disease is. Yeah, Alzheimer's itself is just completely unforgiving. It does not see race. It doesn't see gender.

It doesn't see brilliance. Emphasis on the brilliance that is Professor Opaltree here. I heard everybody giving their tributes and whatnot, but what I didn't hear just yet is how he might as well have been a D.C. native. He was Mr. Legal D.C. here in Washington, D.C., in the DMV at large. He was on the board of trustees for UDC, University District of Columbia. For those who don't know, that is an HBCU. So while he was a professor at Harvard, he was still giving back to HBCUs, which just goes to show you just how much heart he had. Like everyone has said, he wasn't uppity and elitist with his education, with his brilliance, with his mind. He always gave back. He always paid it forward. And he always made a way to cultivate the next

generation of minds, as we see with President Obama, former President Obama and former First Lady Michelle Obama, as we see with the legacy of Black attorneys who have come out of Harvard since his tenure there. So Alzheimer's doesn't see that. Alzheimer's doesn't care about that. And I think that's what makes this even more heartbreaking, the fact that he was relatively young upon his passing. And I've no doubt that if it wasn't for this disease, he would have so much more to give. Like everyone has said, it is a great loss and he will be sorely missed. But the legacy that he has left behind in black lawyers such as myself, such as Matt, such as the legacy, because that's really what is a legacy of brilliance that he has left behind. He will live on. You know, it's about this, it's always about around this time, again,

when they have their Institute on Martha's Vineyard. I mean, he was there every single year. I mean, he had a home there. He was always there. And I'll tell you all this. I'll leave you with the story here. Charles loved to go striped bass fishing. And when I was there, he would be telling me these stories about, oh, Roland, he said, we can go striped bass fishing. And I was like, Charles, look, bro, I don't fish, okay?

I play golf. And there was an annual golf tournament for Ken Williams, named for Ken Williams. And for folks who don't know, Ken Williams was the brother who worked at Polaroid, who actually was the founder of the Polaroid Revolutionary Workers Organization. And they were the ones who first really launched the movement to withhold economic dollars because of apartheid. And so Charles and I, he loved golf, too.

We played in a golf tournament together. And he would talk about, oh, how he loved Mother's Vineyard. And you could just be driving down the street. And folks would just be walking. It was like being back in the days in the country. You just give somebody a ride. They would hop house to house. But he was all, I mean, he loved fishing. He would catch so much striped bass that

he would just take fish and clean it and drop it off at other people's houses and give them fish uh so i have so many memories uh of charles ogletree interviewing him many times um seeing him hugging him embracing him talking with him uh truly was indeed a brilliant scholar michelle roberts former executive director of the NBA Players Association, she was the one that sent me a text this afternoon when I was at the NABJ Hall of Fame lunch and notified me about him becoming an ancestor. And so it is certainly sad news. He will be greatly missed.

And we just wanted to definitely take some time and pay tribute to him on today's show. Folks, when we come back, we'll talk about what's happening with juveniles in Louisiana and how the Department of Justice is taking a look. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.

But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, It's really, really, really bad. Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this

quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

And the treatment of those juveniles at this facility that's got lots of criticism. You're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network back in a moment. When you talk about blackness and what happens in black culture, you're about covering these things that matter to us,

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Zelle is rolling at rollingsmartin.com. On a next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, how are you being of service to others? Doing for someone beside yourself is such a big part of living a balanced life. We'll talk about what that means, the generation that missed that message, and the price that we're all paying as a result. Now all I see is mama getting up in the

morning, going to work, maybe dropping me off at school, then coming back home at night, and then I really didn't have any type of time with the person that really was there to nurture me and prepare me and to show me what a life looked like and what service looked like. That's all on the next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, here at Blackstar Network. Hi, my name is Brady Riggs. I'm from Houston, Texas.

My name is Sharon Williams. I'm from Dallas, Texas. Right now, I'm rolling with Roland Martin. Unfiltered, uncut, unplugged, and undamn believable. You hear me? Folks, we told you before about this facility in Louisiana where juveniles are housed. It has gotten tons and tons of complaints, including punishing children in solitary confinement, being placed in mandatory solitary confinement. Also locking them in cells for 23 hours, only let out the shower in handcuffs and shackles. Well, the Department of Justice,

they filed an interested party pleading. Ron Haley is an attorney who joins us from Baton Rouge. Ron, glad to have you on Roland Martin Unfiltered. So exactly what does that mean, this filing or designation of the Department of Justice? I think it's very important. It shows that the Department of Justice is taking a look at the atrocities that's happening to these kids. Roland, we talked about this almost a year ago to this date. And I hate to say that we told them so. We told them that children going to the Louisiana State Penitentiary would not work. And unfortunately for the kids that have been there, it has not worked and they have suffered because of it. So what does this actually mean in terms of what they filed? Does it mean that the Department of Justice is going to come in and literally investigate this facility?

I think it means that we have a trial. Let me start here. We have a trial starting on August the 15th for a preliminary injunction to prevent the kids from being there anymore. I think if it goes beyond that, or even if it doesn't go beyond that, if there's evidence that comes out during trial that piques the interest of the Department of Justice, potentially we could have a DOJ investigation into what happened to the kids from Angola from the start of this fight last year up until where we're at right now.

I can tell you this. Me and the team have been working diligently. Shouts out to the ACLU, the SPLC, the Fair Fight Initiative, and other private law firms have been working very hard doing depositions all of this week, getting ready for this, again, another trial in the steps to help these kids out. What people forget to realize, regardless of what they have done, they're still charged as juveniles. And there are certain standards in the Children's Code that needs to be abided by. And they just haven't. This has been a woeful

failure, and these children should not suffer from the mistakes of our state. Questions from our panel. Michael, you first. All right. Thanks for coming on with this important information. And I remember discussing this before on Roland Martin and the filter and reading about it. I was wondering why did, so because you all were saying this is not going to work when they talked about sending these juveniles to state prison, why did they say they should do it?

Why did they think it would work, number one? And quickly, number two, what percentage of these juveniles are African-American, if you know that offhand? Right offhand, I would say over 95 percent are African-American. I'm comfortable with saying that number. Number two, your first question is they gave them the benefit of the doubt. They felt that these children were the worst of the worst, and the fact that there was no other facility that can house them in there, that they were willing to treat them as guinea pigs and put them at Angola, the Louisiana State Penitentiary. Now, I don't know if any of you guys on the panel have ever gone to Angola. I'm telling you that the trip up to Angola will blow your mind.

Literally, you're on a road. You're on a road. And the road ends at the Louisiana State Penitentiary. Literally. And so, there's no turns, there's nothing else, just you're on this one road. Tunica Trace Road. I've done it enough times, I can tell you what the road name is. And for me, as just a human, not just a black man, just as a human, when I go visit clients or visit

this facility, it is jarring to know that there are many folks' lives that are just left at the end of this road. And what does that do for children that are housed there? Right.

All right, thank you. Matt? Yeah, so, Ron, thank you for the work that you're doing, brother. It's very important. Here's my question for you. What are you anticipating or what are you seeing is happening in the kids' individual cases in terms of resentencing or some kind of recalibration of their sentences, because obviously juvenile stuff is intended to

be rehabilitative. And even if they've marked them as the worst of the worst, theoretically, if they're having major issues in their place where they're incarcerated, that might affect the timeframe, theoretically, that they should be in. So is there any nexus between the conditions they're in and the DOJ probe and what you're expecting with re-sentencing or anything in that respect? I'm not sure it's a reference to re-sentencing, but definitely reclassification of where they need to be placed at. Listen, factually speaking, approximately two weeks, these children were exposed to the extreme heat conditions that our entire country has felt, especially down south, with no air condition. That is not acceptable. The fact that it's only two weeks, I'm talking about two minutes, is too long.

But yet they have to face these things. And we've had a child that tried to commit suicide. That's been documented. And these are things that we have argued a year ago when I was on with some of you great panelists and with Roland, that we said, listen, this plan is not going to work. That the way it looks, the black and white letter of the pieces of paper and the policies and the programs that they said that this was going to be. This was going to be something that's temporary. Remember that? That by the springtime, we would not need this facility. Yet we're in the heat of the summer, a year later,

and the facility is still open and it's failing. Kelly. Yes, thank you. So I understand that you're not a politician by any means, but I still feel like it needs to be said or noted that the governor of Louisiana, or at least the governor who announced these plans, is a Democratic governor. He's not part of the Republican Party. He is a Democrat. And that none of the youth have been charged with crimes, according to what I am seeing in this article that was sent to me regarding this issue. Can you speak to how your clients are faring now, what they need and anything that the public can do

to help support you in this endeavor. Keep your voices loud, advocacy, and what they need is humane conditions, basic humane conditions. That's what they need. All right, um, look, keep us abreast of what's happening there, and hopefully the Department of Justice will be able to get some justice

for these young folks in Louisiana. Ron, thanks a lot. And we hope that we are successful in this trial within the next two weeks that these kids are removed after that. All right. We certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Thank you.

Well, we've got to go to a break. We'll be back on Rolling Mark Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Don't forget, download the Black Star Network app, Apple Phone, Android Phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. You can also join our Bring the Funk fan club. Your dollars make it possible to do what we do, traveling around the country, covering the stories that matter. So your check and money order is to PO Box 57196, Washington, D.C., 20037-0196. Cash, shop, dollar sign, RM unfiltered.

PayPal, RM unfiltered. Venmo is RM unfiltered. Zelle, Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartin unfiltered demos rm unfiltered zale rolling at rolling s martin.com rolling that rolling mark unfiltered.com and be sure to get a copy of my book white fear how the browning of america is making white folks lose their minds we'll be right back up next on the frequency with me d barn theist, Felicia Morris, is in the house. She's an emcee, a recording artist, a hip-hop historian, broadcast journalist, and an entrepreneur.

The advantages was I got to do an album and hear my music on the radio and travel around the country with a major label. I was labeled Mace with Tupac and Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. Welcome the Poetess right here on The Frequency and the Black Star Network. On the next Get Wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach, the studies show that millennials and Gen Xers will be less well off than their parents. What can we do to make sure that we get to children younger and that they have the right money habits? Well, joining me on the next Get Wealthy

is an author who's created a master playbook. Be willing to share some of your money mistakes, right? If that's what you have to lean on, start with the money mistakes that you have made, but don't just tell the mistake, right? Tell the lesson in the mistake. That's right here on Get Wealthy, only on Blackstar Network.

My name is Lena Charles, and I'm from Opelousas, Louisiana. Yes, that is Zydeco capital of the world. My name is Margaret Chappelle. I'm from Dallas, Texas, representing the Urban Trivia Game. It's me, Sherri Shepherd, and you know what you're watching. Roland Martin on Unfiltered. The police chief of the Minneapolis Police Department has announced changes the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding.

But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams,

and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes

the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that

Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.

Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. ...Florida in 2020.

The department's going to be split into two bureaus. One bureau will be responsible for overseeing police operations and focusing on crime prevention, while the other will focus on rebuilding community trust. In addition to this restructuring, the police department will initiate listing sessions as required by the Minnesota Department of Human Rights agreement to give community members a platform to share their concerns. Each bureau will have its own assistant chief. The position O'Hara plans to fill from within the department

to endure a smooth transition. Keep in mind, it was the federal government, the DOJ, coming to a Patterson Practices investigation that really brought the teeth, if you will, Matt, to Minneapolis. The state had one as well. And so what people need to understand why these investigations matter, they may say all too little too late, but the reality is it allows for them to come in and take a very clear, hard, stern look at the operations and be unflinching in their analysis in terms of how to fix it. And this,

I think, this announcement here is really the end result of that. There to be some trust placed in the process by the citizens because there's monitoring through that process. What I thought was actually surprising about this, though, is that Minneapolis is a large enough city that I would anticipate they would already have such bureaus. So that was kind of surprising to me that they don't already have an assistant chief kind of layer. I mean, even where I live, which is a fraction of the size of that city, has multiple assistant chiefs. But what I was thinking is that I'm hoping that this also does not backfire insofar as it makes it harder to hold the chief accountable for policies in his or her department, because when you have other layers, right, you have people who are intermediaries

in between who are potentially reviewing some of the behavioral issues that they're finding from officers and some of the complaints. And I think it may be good for efficiency, but I think there's a potential that it allows the top brass to kind of separate themselves further from the rank and file. And that could be problematic in terms of ensuring compliance. So I understand why this change would be made, but I hope that it does not culminate in their being able to kind of sweep more under the rug. Hopefully it actually will bring more out through the efficiency of the department. Kelly, what has to happen is, I mean, we've got to stay vigilant in demanding these changes be implemented in these departments? Absolutely. You absolutely have to hold people accountable. And my concern, I echo Matt's concern in that when you have more layers, you have more buffer room regarding shifting the blame

and the lack of accountability. So that is a concern of mine. And I was also wondering why they had to be internal hires when typically when you have chief of police, you kind of outsource that. They're not always from within the department. In fact, they're usually from other jurisdictions altogether. So I thought that maybe an assistant chief would have that same type of model. But nevertheless, like you said, you definitely need accountability in these situations. And they do talk about how they're going to have community listening sessions. And hopefully they will take the community's feedback to heart.

But as far as me trusting this process, I will believe it when I see it. Michael. You know, reading this article here from care11.com and also taking into account that there's a nationwide shortage of police officers all across the country. If this works, this could become a model that is adopted by major cities across the country, because they're looking at splitting the Minneapolis Police Department into two departments, and one department would oversee efforts to rebuild community trust. So this is the first time I've heard of an initiative on this level. I've heard of other initiatives to rebuild trust, but to split the department

into two departments and have one department dedicated to rebuilding trust. And at the same time, I think across the country, not just in Minneapolis, but across the country, there's a tremendous opportunity for many African-Americans who want to be the type of officers we say we want to see to apply to these vacant positions, right, and gain power within these police departments and bring about the change we want to see as well. So this could be something big. We have to have strong follow-through on this, but this could be the beginning of really something big. Well, absolutely. All right, folks. Kelly, Matt, Michael, we sure appreciate you joining us today on the show. Thank you so very much, folks.

When we come back, remember the movie The Green Book? You've heard that about the actual book. Well, my guest actually wrote about this and the significance of it, as well as the husband and wife behind The Green Book. It's a fascinating conversation about a rich part of African-American history that many people don't really focus on. That's next, right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Be back in a moment. This week on The Black Table with me, Greg Carr, reparations. Is it finally time? Two of the

country's foremost authorities on the subject will join me to try to answer that very question. A powerful installment of The Black Table with me, Greg Carr, right here only on the Black Star Network. Up next on The Frequency with me, Dee Barnes, the poetess, Alicia Morris is in the house. She's an emcee, a recording artist, a hip hop historian, broadcast journalist, and an entrepreneur. The advantages was I got to do an album and hear my music on the radio and travel around the country with a major label.

I was labeled Mace with Tupac and Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. Welcome the Poetess right here on the Frequency in the Black Star Network. What's up, everybody? It's your girl Latasha from The A. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Alvin, glad to have you here. Right off, your book is not the movie.

No, it's not at all. In fact, my book is a curious reaction to the movie a little bit. I happen to have been at an Academy Award screening for the movie. And the person who interviewed Mahershala Ali, Vito Mortensen, and Peter Farrelly after the screening asked them, had they heard of the Green Book before doing the movie? And they all said no. And I thought, a reason to do a book. Well, I think what that also speaks to is just how so much a part of this country, the reality of what it means to be Black in this country is completely unknown, not just by white folks, but even by a lot of black folks. Indeed.

Dr. Evelyn Nettles at Tennessee State University, when I interviewed her, she said, I didn't even know about the Green Book until I saw the movie. And I'm an educated black woman. And I felt the same way because I found out about the Green Book when I was on a flight from New York to London and was reading a magazine. And that was the first reference I ever came across. Well, on that point, that's one of the reasons, one of the things that I often say is that as African-Americans, we cannot leave our history, our story up to white educators to teach. And because, again, if you want to understand and I would say this, if you want to understand America today. You have to understand how we got to this point and why you still see

what we actually see. And I think one of the most insidious things about Jim Crow, about white supremacy, is that the next generation likes to say, I don't want my child or my grandchild to have to experience these things. And then people say, well, you know, what's the practical age people should be learning about these issues of race? For me, it's real soon because you have to

have a full understanding of this country and not the fiction that we're told with George Washington chopping down the cherry tree and all the other fables that we often hear that pass as American history. I totally agree with you. Roland, when I did the first manifestation of Driving the Green Book, it was as a 10-part podcast series. And one of the things I wanted to do was to have that be from a Black perspective. So I took with me on that journey from Detroit to New Orleans two Black people. My friend Janae Woods-Weber, who had been raised in a white town in Massachusetts, she's biracial, and Oluwakemi Aladasuyi, who was born in London,

raised in Nigeria, and immigrated to America. Both of those people had what they referred to as a bullet points understanding of African American history. So that road trip opened up their minds. Then when I did the book, I added more information, more context to what we learned during the road trip, more personal stories that we were not able to use so that people could start connecting the many dots associated with the complexity of Black history, Black resistance, and Black survival in the United States. When, so we did the podcast.

And so then you say, you know what, let's actually turn this into a book. What was the reaction from others? Because, I mean, I take it you probably had a lot of people who were like yourself after reading the magazine, like a professor from Tennessee State that went, oh my goodness, really? A lot of people thought the book was just going to be a copy of the podcast series and therefore would be unnecessary. And I said, no, you need context. You need to understand the history of where Jim Crow came from, how complex it was from state to state in America. What were the progress that we made? What were the chances or opportunities that were created or we created for ourselves that didn't get realized over the course of history. What were the setbacks that we face that so echo so many things today?

So in doing the book, in writing the book, I wanted my reader to get more information from the podcast so they'd have a deeper understanding. And my hope would be that both the podcast and the book would open up more conversations among friends and families about this history. One of the things that jumps out at me, you have a title called The American Highway. highway. And what is hard to fathom for some people is what it's like when Black folks went to take a trip, how literally just that act put their lives on the line. When we talk about travel, when we talk about having a passport, we talk about visiting other parts of the country. For so many African Americans, the reason we didn't travel for a very long time is because literally we may not make it back alive. Absolutely true. You could stop at a service station and not be able to get gas. Or if you were able to get gas, they might make you wait. A man I interviewed in Tallahassee, Florida, told the story of stopping at a service station and the attendant said that the bathrooms were

not available. And the guy working under his hood said, those bathrooms are available. They just don't want you to use them. So he asked the service station attendant, can I see the bathrooms? And another motorist, a white man, came around and slapped him and said, we don't like your kind around here. People also told me stories about being stopped on the road randomly by white people. Because in many southern states, you could be stopped by any white person if you drove too slow, if you drove too fast, if you passed them on the road. These could be provocations that people did not know about. For an African-American on the road, it was a dangerous proposition. So just getting prepared for that trip was complicated.

And that complication was increased if you had children in your car. Black parents, like all parents, wanted to protect their children from the horrors of racism, from seeing the nastiness of other people. So this required that the parents take almost dual personalities on. One was as the authoritative figure and comforting figure in the family, but then if they got stopped, the parents had to take on a more demeaning attitude in front of white people.

Brian Stevenson of the Equal Justice Initiative talks about this in the book, how his grandfather would become this other person in the presence of white people. And it was years later that he came to understand this was his grandfather's way of trying to protect him because he wanted his son to grow up to adulthood. into deadly violence. You will not replace us. White people are losing their damn lives. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storm to the U.S. Capitol. We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial.

This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at every university calls white rage as a backlash. This is the wrath of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. Here's all the Proud Boys, guys. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white people. I'm Faraji Muhammad, live from L.A. And this is The Culture.

The Culture is a two-way conversation. You and me, we talk about the stories, politics, the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. So join our community every day at 3 p.m. Eastern and let your voice be heard. Hey, we're all in this together, so let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into. It's the culture. Weekdays at 3, only on the Black Star Network. What's up, everybody? It's your girl Latasha from the A. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered It's not even just, I guess how I look at this

When I think about brothers and sisters who live in many of these major areas, why there was such fear in leaving their homes is because they really lived in... A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek.

I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Banik-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1.

Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne

from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill.

NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does.

It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. And I think about today we talk about safe spaces. Well, they truly lived in safe spaces. They knew if I stay in this neighborhood, not just even if I stay in this city, but if I stay in this neighborhood, I am protected.

So leaving the neighborhood became unsafe. Leaving the state became unsafe. Leaving the state became unsafe. Leaving the region became unsafe. And you're then introduced to a variety of things that are completely out of your control. And I just, I can only imagine what the stress levels were to be Black on a long drive from Detroit to Miami or Chicago to Mississippi or from Gary, Indiana to Arkansas. And literally, from the moment you leave the driveway to the moment you pull in, you're in a, you know, a constant state of hell, fear. Absolutely. Mervyn Obusman, who worked at the Maine newspaper in Louisville. I know Merv very well as a personal friend. Yep. And I interviewed him and he said,

you were tired before you ever left because of the fear. And by the time you got there, you were even more tired. And even though you had a good time when you were there, wherever you arrived, but you knew you had to drive back. And so by the time you got on the road again, you were tired just thinking about it. So there was that fear, that exhaustion that was always present. And then there was the complexity of how are you going to deal with the situations if they occur? How do you, what do you put in place so people would tell their children,

if we stop by a white person, don't look at them. If this happens, don't do that. Don't talk too loudly. And don't look at other cars when we drive past because that might provoke somebody. All of these little things that black people had to worry about. It's amazing that people were willing to travel. And it shows how optimistic and determined we were to see America during that period of time of Jim Crow and segregation.

But it all was not for Black folks terror. No. And what this also exposed, I guess I think about when I think about the Underground Railroad, I call this the above ground railroad in that that was a map. That was a map that gave you a very clear indication of goods and services, where to go, where to shop, where to find refuge. And if you will, it was sort of like if I'm entering a maze, I had something in my hand that could allow me to navigate that maze. Yes. But you also had, in addition to the Green Book, the word of mouth of various organizations like the T-shirts you're wearing, Alpha Phi Alpha. Brothers in that fraternity formed a network.

So if you broke down in a particular place, you had the phone number of a fellow fraternity member. Or if you're a woman, you had the phone number of a fellow sorority member. And you could call them up. And these people would come and help you, feed you, and take care of you until your car was fixed. So there were many networks. The Green Book really was the physical manifestation of that word-of-mouth network that had existed in the Black community for many, many years. It was the tool of survival. And again, that shows you the Black collective. It shows you how we properly utilize organizational infrastructure to be able to grow and thrive as a community. Exactly. And some Black people were able to create resorts completely away from what's called the white gaze today.

You had Idlewild, Michigan, Fox Lake in Indiana, Oak Bluffs, American Beach in Florida. These were places where high-achieving Black people, teachers, social workers, doctors, lawyers, all went during the summer, and the whole world was Black. And these people were able to rejuvenate, commune with other people, have a great time, and not have to worry about being a word that I learned along the trip, Jim Crowed by society in their day-to-day lives. So black people showed a lot of resilience. And you think also about the main streets,

Walnut Street in Louisville, Ferris Street in Jackson, Mississippi, the Avenue in Mobile, Alabama, where black people would come together to have a good time, enjoy the money that they've earned, and enjoy the welcoming services that other African-Americans had created for them. So in the face of Jim Crow and segregation, Black people were able to create a parallel world to the American dream that was full of joy, satisfaction, resilience, and inspiration and optimism about the future. But it wasn't just me. You mentioned, and I hope people didn't miss this, you mentioned places that were not just in the South. You also had places that were in, I forgot the name, it was in Colorado. You had places on the West Coast. And so, which explains to people that when we're talking about

Jim Crow, we're talking about racism, we're talking about what Black people have to deal with, we had to create these Black enclaves in the North, in the South, in the Midwest, in the West, wherever black people gathered because Jim Crow affected us nationally. Exactly. And often it was more subtle in the North than it was in the South. The restrictions were the same, but you had to be taught it by somebody who had gone through it. I recently interviewed an 87-year-old lady in lower Manhattan, and she talked about when her uncle would come to New York City. And yes, he could go into the bars here. But as soon as he finished his drink, the bartender would take his glass and break it in a barrel. So what he started to do was to just sit there and sip a little bit

and say, I'll have another drink. And then make him break glass after glass after glass. Also in the North, there were sundown towns, much more so than in the South. States like Indiana and Ohio had huge numbers of sundown towns where Black people were not permitted to be after sundown. If you ended up in one of those towns, you could be harassed, you could be put in jail, you could be beat up. One guy told us a story that his father told him about a man who was tarred and feathered because he was in a sundown town. So the North was equally complex, but Black people, again, were resilient. They decided that, yes, we have these dangers, but we will create pathways around this and create places, safe spaces, as you said, where we can enjoy each other and enjoy community and thrive. Take folks through just literally the variety of businesses that were provided to folks in terms of what this roadmap looked like.

You talked about the resorts. But again, when we talk about travel, I mean, you talk about everything. You're talking about gas. You're talking about where to eat. You're talking about where to nap. You're talking about where to buy a all of that had to be pieced together. So first off, when did this just first begin to get assembled? You say it word of mouth, but when did it become an actual product, something that was actually placed in someone's hand? How did that actually develop? Victor Hugo Green, who created the Green Book, it's named after him, was a postman in Hackensack, New Jersey.

And he and his wife, Alma, would take trips to visit her relatives in Richmond, Virginia. And during those trips, he would encounter what he called aggravations and embarrassment. And his other friends who lived in Harlem also had these experiences when they tried to travel. So in 1936, Victor Hugo Green published the first Negro motorist green book. And it covered primarily New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and a little bit of New England. There were other publications out there, like Go was one. One was actually published by the U.S. government, and there was also one published in Chicago. But the Green Book is the one that lasted the longest. Victor was quite a visionary marketing

person, so his idea was to gather information about places that should list in the Green Book. And he had the benefit of being a postman. In those days, there were two postman's unions, one for blacks and one for whites. Victor was a member of the white postman's union. So he was able to use those connections in New Jersey to find out about places locally. But he also had connections, of course, to the Black Postman's Union, and he used that group of people to get him connections in the routes that they had. As the Green Book expanded from New England, then South, then up to the Mississippi,

and then by 1938, it started to expand across America, there were all sorts of networks and advertising that Victor used to gather this information. And it started out primarily, as you can imagine, Roland, the earliest listing was for primarily automobile companies or repair shops, because that was a concern for people when they were on the road. But then people started to add in restaurants, eateries, as they called them, tourist homes. These were early versions of Airbnbs, motels, hair salons, dry cleaning places, drug stores, whatever types of services that Black people would need when they travel, in every town and city these began to spring up because black entrepreneurs had at that time a captive audience.

And that's the key thing to remember. Segregation created a captive audience within the black world so Black entrepreneurs could thrive. I'm Faraji Muhammad, live from L.A., and this is The Culture. The Culture is a two-way conversation. You and me me we talk about the stories politics the good the bad and the downright ugly so join our community every day at 3 p.m eastern and let your voice be heard hey we're all in this together so let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into it's the culture culture. Weekdays at 3, only on the Blackstar Network. Up next on The Frequency with me, Dee Barn, the poetess, Alicia Morris is in the house.

She's an emcee, a recording artist, a hip-hop historian, broadcast journalist, and an entrepreneur. The advantages was I got to do an album and hear my music on the radio and travel around the country with a major label. I was labeled Mace with Tupac and Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. Welcome the Poetess right here on The Frequency and the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Jameah Pugh.

I am from Coatesville, Pennsylvania, just an hour right outside of Philadelphia. My name is Jasmine Pugh. I I am from Coatesville, Pennsylvania, just an hour right outside of Philadelphia. My name is Jasmine Pugh. I'm also from Coatesville, Pennsylvania. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Stay right here. Green book, actually green. Yes, it was. It was green. The color actually green. Yes, it was.

It was green. The color was green. And it evolved over the years. So not only was it named after Victor Hugo Green, but he actually made the cover green. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action.

And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, I'm Max Chavkin. inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, Have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott.

And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. And the earliest covers had just type on them, but then as printing progressed and new techniques came about, he started adding photographs to the cover and then illustrations to the cover. So Victor was quite forward-thinking to keep his publication alive and interesting for his audience. And again, this is a gentleman who, what he does is, I mean, he's printing 15,000 a year. And so, I mean, this is a,

and for folks who don't know, this wasn't just over a couple of years. I mean, this was over decades. Over decades. The last publication was in 1966, 67 edition. That was the last edition of the Green Book that was published. And Victor expanded it every single year. And the hype was probably in the 1950s, as more and more African-Americans who had migrated north as a part of the Great Migration gained prosperity. One of the first things that people would buy would be a car. A car rolling meant you had arrived because now you were the captain of your own ship. You could drive past those places that wouldn't serve you. You could avoid public transportation where you had to sit at the back of the bus. And you would buy a big car that was comfortable so that if you had

children, they could stretch out on that back seat. And you also wanted a powerful car so that if, perchance, you got into a situation where you needed to get away from that, you had the power of a strong engine behind you. That's why Black people bought big, powerful cars. Why did it stop in 1966? Several things happened. In the 1949 edition, Victor always imagined that there would be a time when the guide would no longer be necessary. And he believed that when that day came that we had the rights of all Americans that the publication would cease publication. But until that time, he would continue publishing. Victor died in 1960. His

wife Alma took it over and ran it until 1966, 67 edition. And what probably created the demise more than anything else was integration. Now, Roland, what's interesting for me is that when you talk to business people from that period, they do not use the term integration. They call it desegregation or deseg. Once desegregation occurred, then Black people started to go to other locations that had access to, you know, Hilton's and other hotels that before had not allowed them to stay there. And many black people started to leave. Black businesses did not have the capital available to advertise or upgrade the facility. So gradually, the number of businesses advertising in the Green Book started to decline and the need for it diminished.

So it stopped publication. See, I think that, so this is what I find to be interesting. And I'm going to use another book by Gerald Horn. Yes. Sort of explain this. When Gerald Horn did The Rise and Fall of the associated Negro press. This is what the subhead, I think, speaks to this. He's called it Claude Barnett's Pan-African News and the Jim Crow paradox.

And I think what you just described is the Jim Crow paradox. Even though Green saw the need for the book, even though he had created a Black-owned business by publishing the book, what then happens is we don't move from doing the book as a necessity, because first of all, not everybody who had business were Black-owned. But the point is, what was created to protect Black people also was advancing Black economics.

And then with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and then later, of course, the Fair Housing Act of 1968, into, again, integration or desegregation. What it then does is it then becomes open, open a field for the black consumer and all of those things that we created that actually economically built the black community, we literally allowed to disintegrate. Yes. That is indeed the Jim Crow paradox. And to hear people talk about it is really heart-rending in a funny way, because these people really thrived. And then they saw

how black dollars in the black community, which Jemon Jordan in Detroit said often turned over 10 times in the community before it left the community. All of a sudden, the black dollars life and turnover in the black community shortened. That meant that black businesses were not getting that those black dollars. They were immediately leaving and the businesses just did not have the capital. And one of the leftover aspects of this is that banks and other sources of finances still were not available to black businesses as soon as the acts you cited were signed. Practices within the financial community remained conservative and not very welcoming. So the businesses still were unable to get the financing that they need, even if they had the imagination and the drive, it was still not there. Are there, so let's say when you begin to put this, and you begin to do this drive. Are there institutions that are still around

that were in the Green Book? Yes, there are some. In Birmingham, Alabama, there's the A.G. Gaston Motel, which was the premier hotel for African Americans traveling in the 50s in America. It is being restored by the city and looks sensational. It was also where the war room was located and where Martin Luther King, Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth, and others involved in the local civil rights movement planned their campaigns down there. You also have places in Tallahassee, Florida that are being restored. For example, Tooks, which was one of the tourist homes, also is being restored, and they're trying to get national designation for this. Of course, there is the Lorraine Motel, and the Lorraine Motel was legendary in the Green Book. It's where

Martin Luther King stayed, but also a lot of the Stax musicians and people traveling during the Chitlin Circuit, they stayed there. So all across America, there's a small movement going on right now among local people to save at least some of the locations. And it was from Jesse Turner Jr. in Memphis, whose father helped save the Lorraine Motel, that he said something that was really profound. He said, we have the will to save these places. What we need is the Capitol. Because with the Capitol, we can you being of service to others?

Doing for someone beside yourself is such a big part of living a balanced life. We'll talk about what that means, the generation that missed that message, and the price that we're all paying as a result. Now all I see is mama getting up in the morning, going to work, maybe dropping me off at school, then coming back home at night. And then I really didn't have any type of time with the person that really was there to nurture me and prepare me and to show me what a life looked like

and what service looked like. That's all on the next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, here at Blackstar Network. This week on The Black Table with me, Greg Carr. Reparations. Is it finally time? Two of the

country's foremost authorities on the subject will join me to try to answer that very question. A powerful installment of The Black Table with me, Greg Carr, right here, only on the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Marissa Mitchell, a news anchor at Fox 5 DC. Hey, what's up? It's Tammy Roman, and you are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. -♪ -♪ -♪

-♪ For me, it goes beyond saving the history. Um, I think it also requires, uh, a... a change of perspective when it comes to determining Black empowerment. April 3rd, 1968, Dr. King speaks at Mason Temple. And I've said on many occasions that the great problem for me is that many people often only talk about the bottom two, two and a half minutes of that sermon slash speech. He talks about going to the mountain town, but he talked about in that 43 minute and 16 second speech,

building black institutions, investing in black banks, investing in black insurance companies, holding companies accountable that don't do business with African-Americans. He talked about operating and moving as the Black collective. He talked about economic withdrawal. He was, so when he is assassinated, he is talking about, he's talking about how to sustain and maintain, and he says, a Black economic base. And so it's curious, so I find it curious that he's killed in 68, yet the book stopped being published last year, it was 1966. And the reason I find that to be interesting, because it was John, the late Congressman John Lewis, who said that the civil rights movement that we know the marker that is the end of the Black freedom movement, the civil rights movement.

Yeah, that makes sense. But that, to me, I think has to be the state of mind. Let's not save these institutions for the point of history. Let's do what they actually did. Save them to recreate a Black economic base. I agree with you. And I think a lot of young people now are being inspired by the Green Book to do exactly that. In town after town and city after city, young people are seeing the Green Book as a way of marketing Black businesses,

bringing more economic power to Black businesses by reminding black people and black travelers, you should shop at these places. You should patronize these businesses, restaurants, card shops. Yeah, you literally have the Green Book 2.0. We featured numerous entrepreneurs who have created apps that when you go to places, you can literally put in, they already begin cataloging, yes, black restaurants, black places to shop, bed and breakfasts. And so we've had them on. So their deal is, and it's very interesting, their deal is like, hey, when you go to a city, if you're looking to patronize these establishments, they are creating the apps. And so really what you have seen is you have seen this resurgence with technology of really what Green and his wife did. It's now with technology, it's now a new day, if you will, for exactly what they did.

Exactly. And if you think about it, it makes sense because it started out as word of mouth. Then Victor and several other companies were able to put it in print form. The print form died, but the word of mouth continued at that point. Now, with various apps, you're able to share that on the Internet, and you can have more access and update it more quickly. The Green Book only came out in April or May once a year, but now this information can be updated much more quickly and give people the power to patronize Black business and build Black

empowerment. One of the things I like about many of the young entrepreneurs is that they are also about social justice and social activity. So they see their work as a part of a bigger fabric. So this is a new type of civil rights movement, if you will, a new type of economic empowerment that is coming up and an interesting growth out of Martin Luther King's speech. And so what was also interesting, to your point, what the Black businesses faced in the late 1960s, why they could not compete, they did not have access to capital to market. And what we're finding today is the exact same

thing. But this is what I then say to African Americans. When African Americans are patronizing those places, that is providing the capital for those places to be able to sustain themselves and to grow. So what we cannot do is we cannot say, oh, we need black-owned businesses, we need black dry cleaners, we need black this, black that. But if you then don't actually shop there, then it can't happen. That's right. And so that's having a conscious state of mind. I always ask book authors this question,

and I phrase it as the wow moment. I ask every author this, that is when they're doing their research, what was that moment? Sometimes there are multiple moments where they're doing their research and they go, wow, I didn't know that, or that is crazy. So Alvin, what is your wow moment

as you were researching and writing this book? There were two. I had no idea about the Black high-end resorts like Idlewild, Fox Lake, the one that was started by Frederick Douglass's son in Maryland. I didn't even know about these places because I was raised in the deep south in a small village. This was an unknown world to me. So when Mary Ellen Tyus of Columbus, Ohio described what was a perfect day at Idlewild when there was Barbara McNair out on skis or Della Reese there or some of the four tops vacationing there between tours. It was a world that I knew nothing about. And it was so wonderful. It made me, Roland, want to take a ride. A lot of times the big economic forces

we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.

But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1,

Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for good plus on apple podcast road trip during the summer just to visit each of these places and ironically two of my friends recently bought homes in these historic black resorts. The second aha moment came when talking to Mr. Fred Figures, an activist in Jackson, Mississippi. It was a really emotional moment that connected deeply, deeply with my past. I was raised in a small town in the small Florida panhandle. And my parents and everybody I was raised with was deeply religious.

And they had this slow way of speaking. And Fred Figures spoke in that deliberate tone that was intended for you to understand what he was saying. But also, it had the emotional penetration to go into you. And he said that there had been times over history when we said that this would be the day, that this would be the day. And sometimes we take two steps forward and then there'd be three steps back. And he said, but no matter where you are, you should remember this. Do what you can with what you have where you are to make the world a better place and a fairer deal. And when he said that, those words have resonated in me almost every day of my life since then. It felt like I was given a gift. And last question. So before you did this book,

was it always top of mind for you when you traveled to think ahead about, hey, I want to make sure that I'm patronizing Black businesses? And since doing this, has this changed how you travel, what places you frequent, what you're looking to do to visit when you travel the country? When I first started traveling, when I graduated from college, I'll tell you the truth, Roland. I was probably one of the most naive, clue-free travelers you ever met.

One summer, I drove from Chicago West, and I got run off the road by big trucks a couple of times. And sometimes I'd arrive at motels, and there would be no rooms available when there were vacancy signs available. And I just didn't think anything of it, really. I really didn't think anything of it. When I started doing this road trip to create the podcast, one of the commitments I made would be that we would visit and patronize Black-owned businesses all along the road trip. That turned out to be harder than we imagined in certain towns, because in many towns, there were no Black-owned businesses that would provide the services that we needed. But as we went further south,

we realized that people were being entrepreneurial in this way since doing the podcast and writing the book. This is always at the top of my mind now when I visit a town or city across America. Even during the book tour, I was able to, in certain towns, go to Black-owned businesses to see what services that they offer and talk to them and talk to them about the Green Book and whether there was a local version of that in their communities. It's been really satisfying. And to see the spirit of young people embrace this idea that to go to a place

that only provides welcoming services, but to quote the artist Derek Adams, a place that has your vibe and wants your vibe to be present? Well, I'll tell you one of the things that I do, especially when we are traveling with my show crew, is that we go to different places. I purposely seek out Black-owned restaurants. We take them out in that way. So when we're spending our money with Roland Martin and Filch and the Black Star Network, which is coming, a lot of it's coming from our viewers, that we are patronizing those establishments. And so we've done that when we've gone to Birmingham, when we've gone to New Orleans, we've gone to Houston and other places. And again, that has to be top of mind

in terms of how we approach it, how we seek it out. And again, it's just a matter of doing a little extra work to actually make it happen. Because again, we can't talk about black spending power if we then don't actually exercise that black spending power to build a black economic base. That's what the Green Book was all about. And I really think people, I really hope people, a black economic base. That's what the Green Book was all about. And I really think people,

I really hope people, when they read Driving the Green Book, A Road Trip Through the Living History of Black Resistance, if they realize that black resistance, that black resistance, that the black resistance that we talk about, then Steele is alive today. Yes. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you.

A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad listen to absolute season one taser incorporated on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i'm clayton english i'm greg lot and this is season two of the war on drugs podcast

last year a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.