#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Dangerous Delta variant; 6M face evictions; Voting rights protest arrests; LA homeless criminalized

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

8.2.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Dangerous Delta variant puts ALL at risk; 6M renters face evictions; Voting rights protest arrests lead to hundreds of arrests; Homelessness criminalized in L.A.; Ohio Congressional candidate Nina Turner talks bid for office; Biz Markie laid to restSupport #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Today is Monday, August 2nd, 2021. Coming up on Roller Martin on the filter, the Poor People's Campaign took the civil disobedience to Capitol Hill today. We'll show you more than 300 people getting arrested today as they implore, they implore Congress to move on the Poor People's Act, the John Lewis Act. Major congressional campaign in Ohio featuring Nina Turner and Chantel Brown. We'll be joined by Nina Turner right here on Rolling Mark Unfiltered. Chantel Brown refused to come on today's show.

We've got lots more to talk about. Let's get right to it. It's time to bring the funk on Rolling Mark Unfiltered. Let's go. He's got it. Whatever the mess, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling.

Best believe he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's Uncle Roro, y'all. It's Rolling Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's real, the best you know, he's rolling, Martin.

Martin. The acts of nonviolence, civil disobedience took to the streets today in Washington, D.C. The Poor People's Campaign continued their focus on raising awareness, raising awareness about the For the People Act. But not just that. They also want Congress to understand that they are advocating advocates for more than just that. They also want them to be focused on $15 an hour, also protecting the rights of immigrants. And so they want to broaden that agenda. Some of the criticism that Reverend Dr. William J. Barber has leveled at Congress is that they are very good at finding money and resources for corporations, but not necessarily poor people.

And so, of course, last week we were in Austin where they took the campaign there, but here they wanted to have their national Moral Monday take place in Washington, D.C. Now, more than 300 people, folks, were actually arrested. You talk about totally different what we've seen in the past. And so this here is some video. We were out there live streaming it. This here is some video that we shot of Reverend Dr. Barber, but also Reverend Jesse Jackson Sr., Reverend Liz Theoharis, Reverend Frederick Douglas Haynes III, them being arrested. What they did today was they actually did not use the twisty ties on each one of them or handcuff them. They actually did color coded tape around their wrist. And what they then did was the case today, again, because there were so many people who were out there. They really wanted with this campaign to dramatize exactly what is going on in the nation's capital and trying to put the pressure on Congress to do more, to step up. And so you have been seeing these actions take place. I'm going to

a little bit later, I'm going to show you some of what was said at today's march, but it really ties into what progressives are demanding is for a much more aggressive action by Democrats. And one of the folks who has been calling for that same sort of aggressive action is Nina Turner. She, of course, is running to fill the seat of Marsha Fudge, who joined the Biden administration as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Nina joins us right now on Roland Martin on the filter. Nina, glad to have you. So first, I want to get your thoughts on the constant action that Reverend Barber, the Poor People Campaign, believed in. There were five days in Texas last week. We were there Tuesday live streaming all of those different events.

Now here in D.C., they're making it clear that they want Congress to understand that they're not going to be silent and allow U.S. senators to go away on recess with no action on these two critical voting bills. Yeah, Roland, I definitely agree with Reverend Barber and the Poor People's Campaign. They are doing the right thing to put the pressure, I think is really heartless or showing indifference to go on vacation and know that millions of people will be suffering because they did not extend

the moratorium on eviction and a whole host of other issues. So I support what Reverend Barber or other reverends and other activists are doing right now to show force at our nation's capital. What they're talking about, that particular agenda, in many ways mirrors what you have been focused on in your particular campaign. They are focusing on $15 an hour, obviously the voting bills as well, but also protecting immigrants' rights. And you have this battle that's really going on right now, even within not just the Democratic Party,

but even within the Congressional Black Caucus. Over the weekend, you had Senator Bernie Sanders, you had other newer and younger progressive members of the Black Caucus campaigning for you, along with Cornel West. Your opponent, Chantel Brown, she had folks like Congressman Jim Clyburn, Congressman Joyce Beatty, and others. And they have been very critical of you. Congressman Emanuel Cleaver said that they're more pragmatist

compared to other members. And so even within the Black Caucus, you do not have folks marching as one. And so it's very interesting that this dynamic of how your race is showing these different factions, even within the Congressional Black Caucus. It's true. And although we're not homogeneous as Black people necessarily, except when it comes to voting, 90% of our votes in a holistic way go to Democrats, but I digress. It is important to understand

that the founding of the Congressional Black Caucus and other organizations like it was based on the fact that millions of Black people were suffering in this country and treated like second-class citizens. The premise of the poor, the working poor, and the barely middle class still hits our community

disproportionately in a harder and deeper way. This is a class and a caste fight, which is why what Reverend Barber and others are doing with the Poor People's Campaign, the 21st century version of that, is vitally important because we've got to unite and link with our sisters and brothers and family and friends from all walks of life, all ethnicities and all races. But when it comes to the type of suffering and the impact that it has, it has a deeper impact on the Black

community. So whether that's us being hospitalized at higher rates because of COVID-19, death rates higher because of COVID-19, when you look at income and wealth inequality, which is why the $15 an hour minimum wage fight is a righteous fight that has a class and a caste component to it. When you think about unionizing, when you think about the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, as you laid out, and the For the People Act, when those things are passed, it helps all, but it has a deeper positive impact on the African-American community because we suffer the most. And so to have leaders not believe and know that we need universal health care to increase the minimum wage or cancel student debt, that just doesn't

comport with the reason why organizations like that were founded in the first place. What do you make of this notion that you somehow are a scary candidate, meaning that you would come into Congress and be causing dissension within the Black Caucus? I saw some of the comments

over the weekend, again, the fierce campaigning that is happening on both sides. Well, you know, that's by some of them. They just want to try to caricature me. That's nothing new. We know that Black women have endured this since the inception of this country. It really is a shame to see members of the Black caucus play into those types of stereotypes. I wonder, did they think that the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was scary when he stood up against this nation and talked against about the three evils, militarism, poverty, racism? I wonder, did they think that Fannie Lou Hamer,

sharecropper from Mississippi, was scary when she united with her poor white sisters and brothers and family and friends in Mississippi and started a freedom party and actually challenged President Lyndon Baines Johnson and the Democratic Party in the 1960s and called them out for not doing a good job when it came to listening to the cries of the poor, the working poor and the barely middle class. So we find ourselves in that same scenario right now. And so people who want to uphold the status quo, they come in all phenotypes. And there's always people who want to uphold the status quo in they come in all phenotypes. And there's always people who want to uphold the status quo in every single generation. And we see that right now, right here.

I wonder, do they think Rosa Parks was scary when she challenged? And on and on, really, I can give countless examples of the very people that we come together to recognize and uplift right now in the 21st century. They were vilified and maligned in their time when they too were fighting against the status quo. When we look at this particular race, folks obviously will be going to the polls. What do you see as the starkest contrast between you and your primary opponent, Chantel Brown. And first of all, let's be clear, it's not just the two of you in the race. That's right. Is it like 13, 15, 20, 50 people running?

You got it about right. There's 16 people in total. We count the three Republicans who will be in their own primary. But yes, there are 13 Democrats running for the seat. Thank you for that moment of levity. You know, for me, I'm not just saying if something passes, I'll support it. I'm out there fighting for these things to pass. And whether that is Medicare for all, a million Ohioans lost their employer-sponsored health care since this pandemic. And if you add that with the crisis of under—people who are underinsured or, you know, underinsured or don't

have health insurance at all, that comports with what movement, the progressive movement and what I call the freedom fighter movement is pushing for. I'm not just saying that if $15 an hour passes, I'll vote for it. I'm out there in the streets fighting for it, have been doing that for over six years. I do understand from my lived experience how people who are poor, working poor and barely middle class feel and the needs that they have. Roland, Cleveland, Ohio is the poorest city in the nation of its size. When you go and roll into Akron, 23 percent of the people who live in Akron are poor. We don't have time to play games. We need leaders who are going to stand up and have the courage to ask for more.

And that is not in contradiction with working with somebody. Of course, if the administration does good things, if the Congress is working on good things, I'm going to be right there to be partner with. But being a partner does not mean being a puppet, and working with does not mean acquiescing to. And if we look at all the greatest socioeconomic justice changes that have ever happened in the United States of America. It happened not because politicians got a clue. It happened because ordinary people put a little extra on their ordinary, and they pushed the body politic towards justice, the A. Philip Randolphs of the world,

the Ella Bakers of the world. So these very people are some of the same people that were against even President Obama being president of the United States of America. These are the same forces. And, Roland, let me make one other point. My major competitor is taking money from Trump Republicans. The owner of the Patriots has donated to her campaign directly and then indirectly donated to super PACs that are coming in here with that evil dark money to upset, disrupt, and pick their candidate instead of allowing the residents, the voters of this district to pick who they want to

have. It is wrong. And if we let them win here, they're coming to a neighborhood near you. One of the things that we look at these races, turnout is always an issue. And so I was looking at these tweets about Wyeth Ruthven, who is with South Carolina, first of all, who very much covers politics, follows politics. And this is what he tweeted out. Final Ohio 11 early voting numbers out of Cuyahoga, 27,199 ballots requested, 20,681 were returned. In Summit County, 2,431 ballots requested, 2,236 ballots returned.

He said, based upon these numbers, I'm predicting a total turnout of 40,205. That has got to be unsettling. Look, most congressional districts around 700,000 people. They have 16 people running and turnout that some say could be anywhere between 40 and 50,000. How are you and your campaign seeing turnout in this race? That's pretty much our prediction, too. And it definitely makes me sad that people opted out. I mean, here it is, a special election in the heart of summer. Most people are not accustomed to voting in July. Early voting started on July the 7th. And the election day, as you're laying out, is tomorrow. So it's really hard for people, and especially not just having an election in the

summer, but also with the pandemic raging and all of these things. So there are some compounding factors. That being said, even if we solve for those, we know that voters don't turn out in the largest numbers necessary during a special election. I want to work to continue, as I always have, to increase voter turnout. It is vitally important, Roland, that we have more people participate in the process than less. Our democracy is more robust. What people's voices out there voting is more robust. So it is sad. All of us should be sad, no matter which candidate you're supporting, that so many people are deciding not to participate in this election. And should I be the winner, I'm going to do everything in

my power to leverage my national experience to marry with my local experience to really motivate and galvanize people to come out to vote. But we have got to give people something to vote for. So as we go into 2022, the Democratic Party would do well to heed the words of Reverend Dr. William Barber and other leaders in the Poor People Campaign, other activists across this country who are crying out, saying that the people of this nation deserve more. We have the resources to give them more. Let's do that so that Democrats can show clearly by their deeds that they are different than the Republican Party and that they will deliver

for the people who suffer the most in this country. Roland, I am running because of love, love of the community, love of the poor, love of the downtrodden and the marginalized. And I want to continue my work in the halls of Congress. Last question for you. There have been a lot of things thrown at you. A lot of people, I've seen the tweets, people who have been very upset with previous comments that you have made with regards to President Joe Biden, with regards to VP Kamala

Harris, with regards to Congressman Jim Clyburn. Do you regret previous statements? Do you think you were too over the top, too aggressive, or you simply stand by everything you said before? What I regret is that some people are more focused on colorful words than focused on the suffering of people. As I just laid out, Cleveland is the poorest city of its size in the United States of America. My sisters and brothers and family and friends in Akron, about 23%. What I regret is that folks went on vacation without expanding the moratorium on evictions. What I

regret is a legal system that sees black men as more criminal than anybody else, and by extension, other people of color, and then people who are poor. What I regret is that we don't seem to get that the main things are the main things, and that's what we should be focusing in on, and not some colorful words, and not a black woman's agency in the united states of america and so i am running this race to partner with anybody who is going to sit down or walk or run whatever we need to do on a justice journey to lift the people who are suffering the most in this country and what i will say is that i am old enough to remember that on the debate stage during the primary that now Vice President Harris called out the current president for his record on busing in schools. And I remember her saying I was that little girl.

And she laid out his record. Now they are side by side, even though they had some harsh words or she had some harsh words landed down during the presidential debate and nobody's upset about that anymore, then the people who got the dandruff up can rest assured that Sister Turner can work with and looking forward to working with that administration on what is just, what is right, and what is good. I'm the dance partner for justice, but I am going to always put my district first. They are my first, second, third, and fourth concern. And lastly on that, I think people need to take another civics lessons because the Congress is not there. The president of the United States of America is not the boss of the Congress. They are co-equal branches of government. And it is the job of any member of Congress, whether they boss of the Congress. They're co-equal branches of government. And it is the job of any member of Congress, whether they're in the U.S. Senate or in the U.S. House, to advocate for their constituents and also to push the administration to do more,

whether they are Republican or Democrat. And that is certainly what I plan to do if I'm elected. All right, then, Nina Turner, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Thanks, Roland. All right, folks, and for everyone who's watching, we did. We extended an invite to Chantel Brown to come on the show, but she refused. Why did her campaign refuse? Because

they said that we were clearly supporting Nina Turner because we were running ads by Nina Turner. Well, there's a slight problem with that. Those were purchased ads, just like Chantel Brown and her supporters are purchasing ads left and right as well. I find it interesting that she's basically what they're saying is that we can't run paid advertisement, but other media outlets can run paid advertisements. So we would have been more than happy to have Chantel Brown on the show. Again, I'm not from Ohio. I haven't endorsed anybody in this race. Chantel Brown's

campaign was more than willing. They could have easily taken out ads on this show and we will, we will run them on social media, run them on my accounts, run them on the show, but they chose not to. That's not on us. So, so does anybody say, oh, no, you didn't have a fair time? No, we wanted, we wanted the top two candidates to come on today's show, but her campaign absolutely declined on my panel. Julianne Malveaux, Dean of the College of Ethnic Studies at California State University, LA, Omicongo Dabenga, Proprietorial Lecturer, School of International Service, American University, Avis Jones DeWeaver, political analyst. Glad to have all three of you.

Avis, I'll start with you. This has been quite the contentious race. It's gotten lots more attention nationally. I mean, you look at these turnout numbers, it's got more attention nationally than, frankly, in the congressional district. Absolutely. It's gotten a lot of attention nationally because this is a race that, in many ways, I think a lot on the progressive wing of the party are almost using as a litmus test. You've had people parachute in there, like AOC, like I think Bernie was supposed to come in there. I don't know if he showed up yet. JOHN BARRON, Former U.S. Ambassador to the United States of America, He did. He did.

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, Former U.S. Ambassador to the United States of America, OK. Bernie was in there, also some other individuals, I'll just leave it as that, from that side of the party, have sort of parachuted in there. And so their presence, since they don't have any ties to Ohio, in many ways have made this a very national thing, in addition to some controversial statements, quite frankly, that were hurled against Representative Clyburn, that were hurled against Representative Clyburn that were people interpreted as being rather insulting. And so it has taken this outside of a district and made it in many ways a national race and,

perhaps to some extent, a litmus test on the power of the progressive side of the party in order to be able to get that seat, versus a Democrat that has aligned her, that has a stronger or longer history with regards to her local activism in that specific area, and has aligned more politically with the more traditional wing of the Democratic Party. JOHN YANG, The New York Times, Julianne, again, Nina Turner has been a firebrand, big supporter of Senator Bernie Sanders. That has not made a lot of Democrats happy with her previous comments, and they've been using them against her this campaign. You know, Nina, she is a firebrand. She's terrific. She's a friend.

I've contributed to her campaign. Let me just put it out there. And I love Jim Clyburn, too. But what the mainline Democrats have to understand is that younger Democrats are not prepared to play Mr. Bojangles with them. They want change, and they want it now. And that's where Nina is coming from. At the same time, you have the system that has done mainstream Democratic walk up the ladder, be the DNC chair or the chair of the local Democratic Party, also a good candidate. But as far as I'm concerned, you're really looking at the past and the future. What we're seeing in so many ways, Roland, in this race and in so many others, is the changing of the

guard in the Democratic Party that many are resisting. Ten years ago, many of these Democrats would have stayed out of it. But now they're looking at the changing of the guard. Look at Cori Bush. I know we're going to talk about homelessness later. But, you know, why were there no more people laying out on the sidewalk, the streets with her? And so Nina Turner is the face of the future. And it really is a litmus test and people are going to read all kinds of things into it. But what they really need to read into it is that this is a woman who is determined to make a difference for her community,

democratic platitudes notwithstanding. Well, Makongo, look, the reality is this here. Incumbents protect incumbents. All right? We saw this. The Congressional Black Caucus Political Action Committee actually supported the white incumbent Democrat who ran against Ayanna Pressley.

She beat him. They supported Lacey Clay, who was the incumbent who got beat by Cori Bush. So it's not like we haven't seen this before. This goes a little bit different because I think black caucus members have been a lot more aggressive and again have really been upset with some of the comments that Nina Turner has made, especially what she has said about Congressman Jim Clyburn. That was a forum with Killer Mike earlier this campaign where he said that all Clyburn got out of his endorsement of Biden was Juneteenth. He could have been a lot more aggressive on policy.

That did not sit well with CBC members. You're right. I mean, this is history. This has happened before. And I think that all of these individuals, as esteemed as they are, they need to put on their big boy, big girl pants and do the work. Look, I completely understand what people are saying and that maybe she could have chosen better words. But at the end of the day, let's take it right to where you started. When you talked about the protests that were there and the 300 arrests, that was out there as it relates to voting rights. Look, if President

Biden and Vice President Harris and some of these other members of Congress are not willing to cancel or stop the filibuster to protect voting rights, you are not doing what you promised to do. And so you're not really representing what we sent you to do. And if you look at coming out of Reconstruction, this was the same thing in the past, where politicians who said they were going to protect voting rights and the like, they abandoned that to go for economic issues, and they lost a lot of Black support. And so we're seeing this again. And so, look, we can all talk about the comments. And I understand why Representative Clyburn may have been upset. But I personally do believe also that he can be demanding more from Biden. And he talks about, you know, you don't have the right to use the Constitution, use a filibuster on my constitutional rights and the like, but we need to demand more.

And so, look, at the end of the day, I think it's unfortunate what has played out. And really, we need to understand, as Dr. Malvo said, that there are grassroots people, and like you said, you know, Corby Bush and others, who aren't going by traditional politics, they're not waiting their quote unquote turn and they need to be respected and understood and they need to be engaged right now, because if we don't do it now, it's just going to blow up in our faces and Republicans are going to keep laughing in our face. Speaking of what's blowing up in our faces, we're seeing how COVID-19 is impacting so many of us. The Delta variant is causing significant problems, an explosion of cases in many states like Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, so many of these different states. In fact, we now are hearing and seeing more individuals who are getting COVID, even though they've been vaccinated, like Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

Again, in Florida, as a result, people have been waiting in line for hours to get a shot because this Delta variant has really changed so much. In fact, Alabama's COVID positivity rate is now the highest in the nation. Texas has surpassed New York for the number of COVID-related deaths. And so, folks, this is causing problems. And so now we're trying to understand the CDC data that has come out that's saying that vaccinated people are spreading the virus. What does that even mean? Well, let's talk about this here with Dr. Joseph Graves. He is a professor of biological sciences, North Carolina A&T. Also, Dan Fogbuy, a PDFC medicine specialist. So glad to have both of you here. So Dr. Graves, can you please explain to us really what does this new CDC data mean that people who are vaccinated are spreading

COVID-19 or had that capacity? Makes sense for people who are confused because they thought, people can say, well, we heard one thing from the CDC, now we hear something else. Explain what this really means. Roland, thank you. Basically, the vaccines, for the most part, prevent people from coming down with COVID. So if the vaccine prevents, say, 95% of individuals who take it from coming down from COVID, that 95% are not going to be able to spread the virus. But that also means that the 5% of people who can get COVID who are vaccinated, usually have milder cases, don't require hospitalization, and don't generally die from COVID. But that doesn't mean that a person who has been vaccinated

in that 5% who actually do come down with COVID couldn't pass the virus along. Now, what we know about the Delta variant is that, in fact, it's more transmissible and generally makes people sicker. And also, the effectiveness of the existing vaccines against the Delta variant has gone down, which means more people will actually, who are vaccinated, will actually get the Delta variant, even though that doesn't mean that they're going to be hospitalized or die from it. But that does mean that they can potentially pass along, particularly to unvaccinated people. I want you to not unpack that, because again, explain to the audience, first of all, so the vaccine, like I took Moderna, okay? So the Moderna vaccine that I received

was meant to ward off the initial COVID-19 virus, correct? That is correct. So what then happens is viruses, as you told us last year, this is going to happen. Once viruses get within the human body, they begin to mutate and they create a different strain. So the vaccine that was created is not necessarily going to be as effective against the essentially new virus. Yeah, and we know that the vaccines that were created against the initial strains are not as effective against the Delta variant. And again, as you pointed out to your listeners,

I warned people of this over a year ago, that unless we brought down the number of infected people and did it rapidly, that there would be continuous evolution of new strains that would become more dangerous and more transmissible. And what we're seeing now from the data that's released from CDC and the John Hopkins Center, the states that are in the worst shape with regard to new COVID cases and hospitalizations and deaths are the states

that voted for Donald Trump, that didn't believe, that had large numbers of people didn't believe that the COVID virus was serious, and large numbers of people who never got their vaccinations. And so now we are headed in a direction that none of us wanted to see. Everybody wanted to see the summer of 2021 as things going back to normal, but we're actually seeing the trends heading in the wrong direction. So if there's not national action soon to require vaccination, to require masks in school, to treat this as the public health emergency that it is, we are not going to get better. We're going to get worse. And there are more variants that are going to evolve coming down the pipeline.

Some may be even worse than Delta. So this is not something we can fool around with. So Dr. Dan, in fact, we want to bring you in here. So there's so many people to Dr. Gray's point there that were hard-headed. There were so many people who were like, okay, I don't really want to trust this thing. We keep seeing these stories.

There was a couple out of Houston, I believe, who both of them are on ventilators near death, and they, oh, we wanted to see, wait a year, see how these things turn out. And now they basically are sending messages to their family, please make sure our kids get vaccinated. And folks just assumed that this was just going to be no big deal. Hey, I can easily get over it.

Donald Trump, that was the position that he took even when he was near death with it. He acted like, like oh this was great this is wonderful i got this great cure no but they threw everything in the world at it and so he was a beneficiary of stuff a lot of us would not get and so now as a result this thing is now in essence not contained and once it goes basically outside of containment, you don't know where in the hell this is going to end up. Yes. Thanks, Roland, for having me. And so there are a couple of things. Let's make sure that it's totally clear for the audience. And I'll wear my biodefense background

hat on this. Look, we have to understand what a vaccine actually does. Let's educate us one-on-one. Just because you graduated from the 12th grade and you got your biology and copied off somebody in your class does not make you a doctor, one. Two, no, it's really true. These are the things I'm fighting and having these discussion on misinformation, disinformation on different platforms. I want to make sure that's clear. A vaccine is not a force field. So it does not just block the virus and you don't get exposed. So I would liken it to maybe a training program,

you know, maybe like physical defense, a defense course, assault course, where you get training. That's what you're doing with the vaccine. It trains your immune system to be able to ward off the assailing, in this case, the virus. That's what people need to understand the message. So all these positive cases, I would also redefine that. The messaging has been messed up here. It's actually SARS-CoV-2, the infection. That's what they get when they have these positive

tests. That doesn't mean you have COVID-19, the disease, where I have to put a tube down your throat in the emergency department or send you to the ICU and you're on potentially dying bed. That's the big difference. So yes, you will see these cases. I don't like using breakthrough, but that's the lingo that's out there. But understand the vaccine is not a force field. Second, important, our children are priority. Look at the cases. They have started to increase significantly. Children accounted for about 14.3 percent of the cases typically over throughout this whole pandemic. In the past two weeks, that number ticked up to now about 19 percent. So now children are accounting for or have had an increase of maybe about 5 percent.

Last week, about 10 days or so, maybe kids accounted for maybe 32,000 or 36,000 cases. You can look all this up on the American Academy of Pediatrics website, Children's Hospital Association, and CDC website. And then in the past 10 days, it's now increased. 72,000 cases of SARS-CoV-2 are children. So the number is going up. You can see the trend and start to anticipate what those policies need to be and definitely advocate for your children.

So that's my beat. So I got it off my chest. So I gotta ask both of you this, this is a perfect example. DC Mayor Muriel Bowser has come under a lot of criticism for issuing a mask mandate and then attending a wedding where no one was wearing masks and then attending another birthday party.

And so now we have these now we have this mandate saying that even if you're vaccinated, you should be wearing your mask indoors. Aren't people also kind of screwing this thing up, public officials, by saying one thing and then doing another? I mean, look, we're already fighting a massive disinformation campaign. We're fighting people who do not trust the government, who don't trust anything. To me, those are blunders that make no sense whatsoever. I mean, I'll give you a perfect example. After last week with the Delta variant and then I saw what was happening with major corporations, I sent an email to my staff, maybe it was Saturday or even Sunday, saying if you are not vaccinated, you cannot come into my office. You've got two weeks to get vaccinated. And if you don't get vaccinated, you're not going to have a job. Now, some people may say that's too harsh,

but the reality is I'm not trying to get sick. I'm not trying to get any of my staff sick. As an owner, I have to be cognizant of my staffers and what's going on with them. Now, Roland, I completely agree with you that, you know, there needs to be a consistent message, and the consistent message is mirrored by the way you behave in public. So if you're going to say that there needs to be a masking mandate, then you need to go around wearing your mask where it is appropriate to wear your mask. It's really that simple. Yeah, I definitely think corporations have actually stepped up in this case, Roland. It's literally, as I said before, and I've said it on other outlets, that the corporations are actually leading the feds and they're leading your local government officials in regards to the

messaging. And that's because it's hidden them in the wallets. It's not altruistic. It really is mostly because it's hidden in their pockets. And I would say the NHL, they actually stepped up. Now the subsequent corporations have been following suit. We've heard Walmart, Disney, just as you said. So that's who's leading the charge. And I think that will actually bode well for us. But this whole masking thing, yes, the message has been mixed up. But the virus also has changed. So let's not get that twisted. Science is not necessarily the truth. As someone said, science is actually looking for the truth. So it will change. But we have to understand that it is a dynamic of change, and we have to do that. Some of my colleagues have said we shouldn't even be dangling the whole mask issue and just say, you know what, mask, do what you need to do, wash your hands,

get your vaccine and call it a day and be clear with it. We've tried the other way. Some have argued that if aliens were supposed to invade us, we, with our civil liberties and lack of cooperation, lack of working in unison in one accord, will be our downfall. And I actually think that's actually right, sadly, but true. Yeah, but I think the problem is deeper than that because Americans confuse freedom with license. And they're not the same thing. You don't have the freedom to walk

into a crowded movie theater and yell fire. That's license. So in the same way, with regard to public health measures, you don't have the right to put other people's lives in danger by not getting vaccinated and by not washing your hands, by not wearing a mask in public. You don't have that right. And people don't understand the difference between the two, license and freedom. They're not the same thing. And since they don't have that understanding,

therefore, then there comes the sanctions and the mandatory making you doing certain things that you wouldn't do without repercussions. So that's why we're here where we are. I mean, it has been frustrating because I also believe, I think part of the problem is people hear something and they go, okay, that's it, without realizing that stuff changes, that as medical professionals, as scientists, you're chasing this thing. And so, to me, it's sort of the equivalent of, okay, someone tells me, hey, I'm going to follow you in traffic, and we're going this direction.

And then I get mad if you hung a left or hung a right, and I go, well, why did you turn right and they were going because idiot that was a traffic accident up ahead and I exited the freeway to go around the accident versus sit in traffic we are so linear nope you told us this and now you're changing your mind what's wrong with you and then folks just put it out on social media and then people go crazy as opposed to sitting there going,

yeah, guess what? Today, you're gonna have to wear your mask. I know what I said last week, but today is different. To me, got it. Because I'm trying to live. I'm not trying to check out early by being a dumbass.

Part of this also, Roland, goes to, I think, the intentional destruction of science education in the American school system. And the reason that science is so dangerous to despots is because when people think scientifically, they can easily see through your schemes. So if you want to be able to essentially institute a despotic, anti-democratic society, you don't want your population capable of thinking critically about

the facts of various issues, including the facts of nature and medicine. And so this is an example of where that right-wing program of attempting to underdevelop the intellect of the American people has now come back to literally bite us in the behind, because now it's extremely difficult to get across scientific ideas related to the pandemic, related to the evolution of the virus, related to public health policy in a society that has little to no scientific literacy. Dr. Dan? Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think I just want to pivot on that issue, but with regards to parents,

I'm really trying to figure it out for their children this fall, winter. Please make sure you go to www.cdc.gov, look under vaccines, under planning. You'll see all the guidelines. I literally had a moderated session with the National Council of Negro Women, a great workshop this weekend, but lots of concerns from parents, lots from families, lots from administrators. This stuff is not easy, but we have to do it. So that whole masking stuff that AAP, the American Academy of Pediatrics, out. Please follow that. If your constituents aren't, if your leadership in your towns are not following that, figure out how to advocate and work up that chain, because this is serious. We don't have those vaccines for the kids yet. We need to vaccinate

them as soon as we get that opportunity. But we don't have that yet. And the time when it's coming, we're not sure. We're saying sometime later in the fall, winter. But by that time, they've already started school. And as I already mentioned previously at the previous discussion here, that we talked about the stats. Those cases are rising. They're increasing. While we're not seeing significant hospitalizations in those areas, the hospitalizations are going up, especially in those hotbed areas. Florida, I don't know what they're doing.

We didn't talk about it, but the Santas are stripping over there, and you all need to protect yourselves and be careful. I do want to have each one of my panelists ask a question, but I just get a kick out of some of these people. I guess this person's name is appropriate. It's Karen. She puts on YouTube, he talking like if people are not vaccinated, they got the cooties or some shit. Oh, well, to each

his own. Glad I have my own business. Wow. So now he calling people dumb asses because they don't get vaccinated. Yeah, actually, I am. I'm calling people dumb asses last year who wouldn't wash their damn hands, who wouldn't social distance, who wouldn't wear a mask. And then when the

vaccination comes out, then folks say, you know what? I'm not going to take it. Okay. Gotcha. But show me all the people who did have the same position like the 34-year-old black dude who's making fun of the vaccination who's now dead. Or the

numerous other people. And here's the deal. You're right. To each his own. But do let me explain something to you. While you're saying to each his own, it's not just each his own. See, this is the difference between, to me, COVID-19 and somebody who chooses to smoke. If you want to smoke five packs of cigarettes a day in your house, your car that's you but when i gotta deal with your secondhand smoke you now dealing you now affecting my life if you want to drink yourself into a stupor go right ahead but when you drink then get behind that wheel see then you're impacting

me this is the reality what's happening with COVID. The people out here who don't want to get vaccinated, who don't want to social distance, who don't want to wear a mask, who don't want to wash their hands, who want to say, hey, I want to live free and be an American. That's why I'm here. It's freedom, freedom, freedom. Well, that's what's causing our problems because their kids are not vaccinated.

They're not taking all the precautions. Their family members are not. And so guess what? This small amount of people is causing the problems. Vermont. Vermont is the state that leads America. Both of y'all can just correct me if I'm wrong, Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in America.

My understanding, zero hospitalizations. Well, I mean, you know, you've said it all, Roland. I mean, but I would say that much of this ignorance is not accidental, that it has been fostered by very powerful interests who like to see the American people suffer. And quite frankly, as I have said on your show many times, all of these unnecessary deaths need to be laid at the feet of the people who created the atmosphere where Americans no longer believe scientific facts, no longer believe medical facts, no longer believe the things that they see with their very eyes. People on their deathbed saying, I should have taken the vaccine. But there are people who told them that they shouldn't. This morning, I saw a preacher in

Tennessee who threatened to throw people out of his church if they got vaccinated or wore a mask. And so, while, yes, individuals have responsibility, we also need to be quite aware of the social forces that are at work in this country trying to destroy what is left of American democracy. Questions from each one of my panelists. I'll start with you, Julianne. Roland, first of all, these doctors are amazing. Thank you for bringing them on and bringing their information on. I want to ask both of them, but especially the brother who talked about, about the resistance to science, the lack of science literacy that exists in our country. So people are saying things like, I don't believe

the science. Well, it's not a religion. It's like a fact. So what do you attribute this lack of science literacy to and what can we do about it? So there are a couple of things on that. I would say, thank you for that question. So the number one thing is our school system, right? Our education process. It needs to be more rigorous. We need to focus on STEM, science, technology, and math, engineering, all that good stuff to start to address that. But not only that, I think this is what I was going to bring up. Section 230 that has to deal with social media and the regulation around that. Social media platforms are going to need to be regulated. That's just my personal opinion on that. I don't know how other folks feel about it. But the point is, if AI is stupid,

and I'm going to say it's stupid, because all it does is give you and feed you what you eat. So if you're looking up some story and it says that this vaccine has this, and all it is is a whole bunch of lies sprinkled with a little bit of truth. And people say, oh, well, if it says that there, therefore it must be. The lack of critical thinking is not there. It's just not there. People can't, they don't even know how to go down levels of discernment from first degree. Who's the author? Not every doctor is a doctor. Okay. So this doctor published, did they publish in that area? Did they publish in this topic? And what does that mean for me?

What does that mean for the population? So people have to learn how to verify, how to check information, how to validate it, and actually understand how to discern. Those things are lacking. So critical thinking would be the first thing I would say. And then social media definitely has a part of that where they're using AI algorithms that aren't really propagating the right message and actually magnifying misinformation. Yeah, I have to agree with my esteemed colleague. We're in a perfect storm in which two forces come into the American culture going in opposite directions. rise of social media and people's lives being orchestrated by what they hear or listen to on social media, at the same time that an emphasis on critical thinking in education, particularly in public education, K-12, has gone through the bottom. And so these two things coming together is the worst possible set of

circumstances in which to have a global pandemic. And so unless we fix this, and again, it comes down to who has the reason, who has a rationale for wanting to fix this. I can tell you that the people who run this country don't have the rationale for wanting to fix this. They want a compliant American consumer who will just buy what they see on their smart television and not really even think about it. That's what they want. That's what they want education to do, is to make you a compliant consumer. If we emphasize an education that provides students with the ability to think critically about the world, they're going to come to the conclusion that the society we live in has to be changed. It has to be changed dramatically. And if the COVID pandemic isn't signed enough,

let me be really clear on this. I've been saying the entire time that COVID is a level three pathogen. There are much worse pathogens lining up to become global pandemics. And unless we take action now, we could literally be seeing an existential pandemic that threatens the very existence of the human species and the not too distant future. Makongo, your question. Yes, my question is also for both of you. I remember when COVID first hit and there was all this conversation about not only the airborne aspect of it, but handshaking and people touching packages and surfaces. With this Delta variant, are these also still areas of how the virus, of how COVID

is being transmitted? Should we still be doing things like washing down packages, fist bumps to set up handshakes, those types of things? So based on the data that's out there, we know that most of the transmission is not really through packaged food and touching certain surfaces. It may be minimal, but it's really not the main way of spread. It's really just through the nasal passages and mouth. And so those are the things that are out there. So yes, we should still be washing. Somebody alluded to something about us being dirty and not clean. So wash your hands. There's one thing we learned from this pandemic is to be clean. But those who are obsessive compulsive, they're living in heaven right now because they're like, yeah, I'm just catching up.

Wash your hands, wash your hands and wash everything else. So yeah, so that's the way it's at with that. Make sure you wash your hands, wear your mask and do all that stuff. It does change. And as I said, science is a dynamic of change. When we get more data, if we find something that this variant does something else, you'll be notified to be continued. So people can't just stay in one zone. It's literally constantly evolving. And because it constantly evolves, I would make the point that we should assume that variants will evolve that do a better job of transmitting themselves on surfaces. And so the practices that were just described, which is hand washing, wearing your mask, social distancing, all of those things are going to work without

regard to whatever type of variant we're talking about. But we can be sure that new variants will arise with new abilities. And so we should maintain our best practices with regard to preventing the transmission of viruses. And we know how to do that. Thank you. Avis. Dr. Fabui, great to see you here, by the way. Question for you with regards to parents trying to navigate school. You know, a few months ago, I think we all were assuming that by the time this fall came, that children could more safely go back to school and resume a more normal type of educational lifestyle. And now, with the rise of this variant, plus the fact that vaccines have not really been completed, the testing process for the youngest of children, what should parents do

in terms of looking out for the safety of their children as they head back to educational institutions? Well, thank you for that question, Ava. Great to see you too. Hodge kids, Hodge wives, run. I mean, literally, all jokes aside. But I think it's important to understand how this is for families. As I said, I was moderating the National Council of Negro Women Workshop, great outreach to the community. Please check in with them. But on the CDC website, I would definitely refer you to that. CDC website go on the vaccine, on the COVID-19, on the planning for schools.

So it's called SLV, basically school-based planning and vaccination. So it's not only just the COVID vaccinations that will be an issue, but even the regular vaccination that they haven't been getting throughout this whole pandemic. So they're going to be doing that in school. So I want parents to be open to that and to be ready and be prepared that your kids may get vaccinated at school for all their catch-up vaccinations. That's one. Two, I think it's important to make sure they're involved in their PTA, Parental Youth Youth Association, and in your community, response to that. Definitely the masking, work around the community on that. One of the problems that we have had is, we have known this for over a year. We had

all this time that we know that the distancing within schools, making sure that they have enough funding to be able to construct the school or at least make it the classrooms in a certain way where it's more palatable and available for them to have more air and things like that. So those are things they should have worked out within their policy. Also, making sure that the teachers, the faculty, staff, all of them are vaccinated. That's also a layer of protection. That's important, making sure you have hand-washing stations or hand sanitizers. All those things that are important to be in place are necessary. I think one of the last things that I think is a problem is with regards to when they're in states, for example, I'm going to use Florida because they're just really doing something really wrong,

where they're actually going to penalize schools and school districts with regards to masking, literally fighting them on what we know as lifesaving. That's where you have to get involved with the community level, with all the chain of command, meaning you're speaking with your council member, whoever is in power in that city so you all can advocate for your children. And ultimately, if this is not working out the right way, you may need to take your kids out of school and go to a different district, literally. Some parents are actually considering that in cases where they need to make sure their kids are safe. Yeah.

And one other thing I'll add to that is there has been a concerted effort by the right wing in this country to take over local school boards. And so people who really care about, again, about democracy, about preserving our chances to live in a free and equitable society, if you have the capacity, you certainly should, one, find out who's on your local school board and what their politics are. And if you have the capacity, you should consider running and serving on your school boards because there needs to be a concerted effort to stop the takeover of school boards by right-wing policies in this nation. All right, folks. Gentlemen, I appreciate it.

It's a whole lot to digest there. Hopefully, the folks who are watching and listening really learned something from that. Our goal is to have top black experts on giving people the information from our perspective so they understand what's going on. And so I certainly appreciate the both of you for coming on to explain all that.

Dr. Gray, Dr. McBooey, thanks a lot. Gentlemen, take care. Appreciate it. Yeah, you too. All right, folks, gotta go to break. We'll be back right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. People our age have lost the ability to focus the discipline on the art of organizing.

The challenges, there's so many of them and they're complex. And we need to be moving to address them. But I'm able to say, watch out, Tiffany. I know this road. That is so freaking dope. You know. It's just about hurting black folk. Right. You got to deal with it. It's injustice.

It's wrong. I do feel like in this generation, we've got to do more around being intentional and resolving conflict. You and I have always agreed. Yeah. But we agree on the big piece. Yeah. Now, conflict is not about destruction. Conflict's going to happen.

I'm Shante Moore. Hi, I'm B.B. Winans. Hey, I'm Donnie Simpson. What's up? I'm Lance Gross, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. As we said at the top, the Poor People's Campaign held their National Moral Monday today in Washington, D.C. Thousands gathered in the nation's capital, marching to the Senate Hart Office Building, THOUSANDS GATHERED IN THE NATION'S CAPITOL, MARCHING TO THE SENATE HEART OFFICE BUILDING, FIRST GATHERING IN UNION SQUARE, RIGHT THERE ACROSS FROM UNION STATION. HERE IS REV.

DR. WILLIAM J. BARBER ADDRESSING THE CROWD BEFORE THEY MARCHED. THE FILIBUSTER IS SENT. LEAVING THINGS UNDONE IS SENT. LEAVING THINGS NEGLECTED IS SENT. MAKING A CENTRAL WORLD A CENTRAL WORLD. Leaving things undone is sin. Leaving things neglected is sin. Making essential workers work during a pandemic and risk their lives to save this country and then not give them a living wage is sin. So the moment of this question, I I'm through, is simply this. It's a moment that was raised, Rem Jackson, in the 1920s by the Kentucky mine workers

who were fighting against the bosses in the 1920s. And one lady, they were coming to get her husband and arrest him. And she hit him, got him out of town. And then she sat down and wrote a song and she simply asked one question. Which side are you on? Which side are you on my people? Where you at Pelosi? Because there is no moderate side in this.

Where you at Pelosi? Moderation is vomit. But the Lord said you either got to be hot or cold. A non-conflict is a conflict. And I'm not saying that you have to be a conflict. I'm saying that you got to be hot or cold. A non-constitutional filibuster, are you on that side? Or are you on the side of fulfilling your constitutional duty to establish justice,

to promote the general welfare, to ensure equal protection under the law and make sure nobody can deny or bridge the right to vote. Somebody shout, which side are you on? We're on the right! Reverend Jesse Jackson Sr. was also there and was cheered vigorously by the crowd when he was introduced. I was glad to be on the 7th of March in 1965 and the 7th summer march last week between Georgetown and Austin. The difference between now and then is that we were a moral appendix, a moral appendix of party. We lost the vote. They had to run the Nixon. Johnson lost salvation in that

march. He came to our rescue. He took the heat first penny gave to every nursing Republican second game without the game before the lines to make real sense one thing I know now that we're not uh and we're now the integral part of the base to black and brown people black and brown people. The base. The base. The party. The party. Not the bottom. Not the bottom. The foundation. The foundation.

The problem is where you end up. The foundation. That is where you start from. The reason why this, the closest we get to date, the most we get to date, and the brightest we get to date. Why? Because if we lose, they lose. That's right.

That's right. I agree. We lose. We lose. Democracy loses. Democracy. That's right. Agreed. We lose. We lose. Democracy loses. Democracy loses. We lose.

We lose. Democracy loses. We lose. We lose. It's a nation losing. It's a nation losing. All of it. All of it.

It's credibility. Credibility. In the world. In the world. Roddy Ellis, Harris County Commissioner, former state senator. He was there watching things unfold, and we caught up with him. He ain't got his bike with him. He ain't got his bike with him.

I do. It's in my hotel room. Uh-huh. See, there you go. You can't bike in a march now. You can't rush it. You got to take your time. How you doing, man? All good. We're just here. I'm impressed. Live streaming this whole deal.

I'm impressed. It's a great crowd. And Barbara's just amazing. You see Rob Jackson over there? Of course. He's still out there, relevant in the struggle. It's amazing. Now, we were in Austin last week, so I was, we were there Tuesday through Sunday. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. You know, my Texas folks out here, I think a couple of them still left, but they're getting ready to go back down. Oh, the House Democrats? Yeah. Three Texas House Democrats.

They, of course, have been in D.C. since they left the state to keep them from having a quorum, from passing bills. I also caught up with them. All right. So, first of all, I I got to get your thoughts on Saturday's rally. We were there, of course, Tuesday through Saturday. And then your thoughts about this. Anybody jump up first. So first of all, I hate that we couldn't be there. Right. That was probably one of the most powerful things that we've seen in the state of Texas. And sadly enough, we couldn't be there. But everyone has to know that we were there in spirit because I honestly don't believe that we would see a movement like that

in the state of Texas or anywhere else in this country, but for the courage of my colleagues to stand up to Governor Abbott and say enough is enough and come to D.C. and call the U.S. Senate on their stuff, is what we'll say. And I would add that our people back home know how important this is, not only to Texans, but to people across the United States. Our democracy is in jeopardy right now. So we know when they rally that we're standing together in solidarity.

And today's rally is all about Reverend Barber tying voting rights to every single issue that's important to every family, whether it's working wages, whether it's health care, whether it's employee rights, whether it's emergency workers being safe in what they're doing, whether it's our educators. All of that is tied into our right to vote. And that's why we're here today supporting Reverend Barbin in Washington, D.C. REP. ROLAND GARCIA- What I would say, Roland, is that we are here dealing with the fierce

urgency of now. We need the U.S. Senate to take action so that we can protect millions and millions of Texans. And not just Texas, but people all across this country's fundamental precious right to vote. We know that we stand on the shoulders of those who paved the way to help end, almost 56 years ago, the voter suppression Jim Crow laws. And we're going to continue to fight as Texas legislators to be on the right side of history, and we're urging the U.S. Senate to take action now. This is the most pressing issue facing this country right now. It's not infrastructure. It is the fundamental voting rights, because if we don't have the power of the vote, then everything else fails, and we don't have a democracy.

All right. I got to go walk. I appreciate it. Among the speakers also was the daughter of President Lyndon Baines Johnson, Lucy Johnson. He of course was the president who signed into law on August 6th, 1965 Voting Rights Act. Everyone here matters to us.

That's right. You were there for my father in the Great Society. You were there for my father in 1964, in the Civil Rights Bill, in the 1965 Voting Rights Act, in the 1968 Fair Housing Act. And without your support, it couldn't have happened. Reverend Barber, thank you for honoring me with the invitation to be here. Working for social justice has been our family's passion. On January 8, 1964, Lindas and my father declared a war on poverty, saying we shall not rest until that war is won.

The richest nation on earth can't afford to win it. We cannot afford to lose it. And with that in mind, so that I will maintain the family harmony that is so important to me, I'd like to introduce my big sister and my forever best friend. so that I will maintain the family harmony that is so important to me. I'd like to introduce my big sister and my forever best friend, Linda Johnson-Rob. She's in green, and my granddaughter, Tatum Rebecca Nugent. Many say this war has been lost, as poverty still exists, but just ask the beneficiaries of Medicare, Medicaid, Head Start, Civil rights, and education acts. If they think this is true, war on poverty was not our enemy.

Too many public policies have been. Too much inequity of incomes, access to jobs, and education have robbed our people of a more just America. And we won't take it anymore. We won't take it anymore. Today we are in crisis. The vote gave Americans of all backgrounds the opportunity to address the inequities of our country. Those seeking to limit abscess to that vote will strangle liberty and justice for all. The For the People Act and the John Lewis Act protect the right to vote for every American. It is time to ensure that they become the law of the land.

There could be no more fitting tribute to liberty and justice. In the 1960s, Democrats and Republicans stood up together for social justice. It was the right thing then, and it's the right thing now! Now, more than ever before, we need to, in the words of Isaiah, come and reason together to build a more just America for everybody. We need courageous leaders on both sides of the aisle to support social justice and the right to vote. My sister and I cannot speak for our father now, as I assure you we dare not in his life. We want to know, let you know for sure, that he would want us to be with you in the fight for social justice and voting rights.

In 1965, when Lyndon Johnson pled for voting rights reform, he invoked the mighty anthem of the civil rights movement. These words still beat in our hearts. We shall overcome. We must overcome. We must overcome. We must overcome. And, of course, after that, that's when they then travel

through the streets of Washington, D.C., down Constitution on the way across the Supreme Court and over to the Senate Hart Building. All media, we need you to be in line with us. This is a four people's campaign and myself. So please, you cannot be in front of us. Y'all got to keep moving. Come on. A little chaotic out there at the beginning, but you can actually see with that shot there

the number of people who were there. This is important, Omicongo, and just keep rolling the video, folks. It's important because what Reverend Barbara keeps saying is there has to be constant pressure, constant action. More than 700 clergy drove people out there today. And he said, if you just simply play an inside game and they don't see people in the streets, it allows for the issue to fade away. That's absolutely right. And through Reverend Barber, through Reverend Jackson, Reverend Theo Harris,

people always calling off the church, saying they're not doing enough, they're not doing what they used to do. This is being led right now, and they are out in the streets. And all across the country, I'm seeing members of the clergy step up, just as they used to do in the past,

and they're bringing young people along. In my opinion, look, as they say, change doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington. And the fact that they're out there in Texas and all across the country out here marching, putting pressure on corporations, putting pressure in every single way possible, people need to know that we are serious about this. People are out there not only risking arrest. This is still a pandemic. People are risking there not only risking arrest. This is still a pandemic. People are risking getting COVID transmissions and holding patterns in other places. But this is how important it is to them. This is how important it is to us. This is how important

it is to our future. And these Democrats that we put in the majority, I know they don't have the same numbers as an LBJ did. I get that with Biden. But seriously, you're going to go off for seven weeks while we're out in the street doing this type of work? Who are you really representing? Whose donors are—is it about the donors or is it about the people on the street? Because we put you all in office. I don't care who gives you the millions of dollars. It's only one vote per person. And so at the end of the day, I hope that they're paying attention because just because you all are going to be on recess, kids go on recess, by the way.

We're not. We're going to stay out in the streets. We're going to stay online. We're going to stay doing everything we can because we can't let up, period. Avis, the target of recess is really important because, boy, members of Congress love nothing more than being able to take their vacations. And so you apply pressure where you need to apply pressure. And I think by telling them y'all need to move on this before you go to recess and Chuck Schumer, what he should say to them is, hey, I'm not gonna let y'all go on recess

unless we address this. That's how you get their attention. We are talking about Chuck Schumer, right? Well, that's what he said. That's what he said. Chuck Schumer. Okay. Okay.

I believe that one when I see it. But I hope he does. I hope he does. I would like to see more backbone-like behavior out of Chuck Schumer. And I would say that this is a key fight. I mean, this is, to me, from the very beginning of the Biden administration, I have said from day one this needed to be priority number one. And I have been just livid as I'm seeing everything else sort of leapfrog over voting rights. And it's not like this is an altruistic thing that they're quote-unquote doing for Black people. If they want to win, they need to make

sure that Black people can vote, because we are the backbone of the Democratic Party. Not only is it true that, without our support, we would not have control, by the slimmest of margins, but control nonetheless of the Senate, as well as a Biden presidency. But if looking forward, in terms of what to expect in the midterms, in terms of what to expect in the next presidential election, you have to give people a reason to come out and vote for you again, which means that you have to deliver on your promises. It's very disturbing to see that there seems to be this idea that Black people are going

to somehow organize their way out of this, and that Black women will somehow once again pull another rabbit out of the hat in terms of saving their asses. But I need to let this administration and the political... this political party understand that this needs to be the line in the sand. You need to fight for us in the same way that we fought for you. And lastly, I will say, I really hope, you know, I understand and I deeply respect what's going on right here, but we cannot, I believe, afford to diffuse the message, to muddle this message. This can't be about saving everybody all the time, okay? This can't be about voting rights

and citizenship and minimum wage and everything else under the sun. I are — we need to understand, as people on the left, that, to be most effective politically, you need to target your messaging, target your focus, not diffuse your focus all over the damn place. YAMICHE ALCINDOR, Former U.S. Secretary of State for Democracy and the Constitutional So I would love to see a focus this summer. If the focus is on voting rights, the focus needs to be on voting rights right now. I would love that, because, honestly, they're talking about rolling up in this stuff for DREAMers and reconciliation, I mean, other people getting their stuff. I would love to see, I would love to see

a focused effort specifically on voting rights, because let me tell you, that is what's under attack fervently, and it's primarily the black community that's under attack with that specific issue. Well, but Julian, Dr. Barber actually addressed that particular issue. When he spoke today, and we're going to try to pull it up in a second, a member of Congress said, hey, you know, y'all should only make this about voting. He said no with the Poor People's Campaign. HE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO PUT MULTIPLE AGENDA ITEMS ON. HE SAID, YOU KNOW, CONGRESS SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW, Y'ALL SHOULD ONLY MAKE THIS ABOUT

VOTING. HE SAID, NO, WITH THE POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN. HE SAID THAT IF YOU ADDRESS $15 AN HOUR, THAT IMPACTS 40% OF BLACK AMERICA. AND SO, JULIAN, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT HE WAS CLEAR.

HE SAID, YOU HAVE TO ALSO PUT MULTIPLE AGENDA ITEMS ON. HE SAID, AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE to also put multiple agenda items on, he said, and that's why you see their demands, their demands right there. Number one, end the filibuster, pass the For the People Act, deal with $15 an hour, protect 11 million immigrants as well, and the John Lewis Act. They've been very clear all last week on every banner and every speech, these are the demands. You know, Roland, I partially agree with Avis and I partially agree with Reverend Barber. I mean, the challenge is

that we... How do you partially agree with Avis and partially agree with Reverend Barber when what Avis is saying runs counter to what Reverend Barber is saying? You can't partially agree with both. You got to pick, Julianne. I'm trying to explain it to you. I'm trying to explain it to you. I am trying to explain it to you.

Now, the issue is that we can't put everything in here, but there's something that could be put in here. I think if we just do voting rights, we may miss an opportunity, but I think that if we widen it too much, we give too many people out to get out. So, you know, I want folks to... The voting rights thing is most important to so many of us.

But you see Cori Bush leaping on the steps for homeless folks. You see the $15 an hour. You see all these things. What we're really talking about is a frontal assault on predatory capitalism, a frontal assault on the way that we've done things. And with that frontal assault, we have to figure out a way to balance this stuff out. And in balancing it out,

it may mean that we end up with a bill that's broader than just voting rights, but narrower than what Reverend Barber and the posse want. That's all. I would say there's good to say in both. No, you know, yeah, you're right, I have to pick. I ain't got to pick, Roland. All I have to do is say that

with this shit, I need a curse on the air, this nonsense has to stop. The way the filibuster has to be gone. And I think that's perhaps what we can all agree on is get rid of the filibuster. I want to bring in a couple of guys that Dr. West Bellamy, he is the chair of advocacy for 100 black men of America. Kadeem Cooper is the policy

council public center, public policy project, laws community for civil rights under law. Glad to have both of you on here. Sorry, can I get to you on Saturday? We had a few issues there. But Wes, I want to deal with you. First of all, what the demands of the Poor People Campaign, that's not a demand to put all that in one bill. What they're saying is in the filibuster is one thing. The Poor People Act is a whole different deal. John Lewis is a different deal.

They're saying these are multiple things to deal with. And so Barbara was clear that they are not going to make one issue. He said they have a broader agenda as the Poor People's Campaign. I absolutely agree with Reverend Barbara. And with all due respect to the sister, I think it's imperative for us to be able to understand that we have to be able to walk and chew gum simultaneously. And I say that, again, as respectfully as I can. I think that our issue in terms of voting rights, while it is definitely affecting the majority of African-Americans, we can't say that this is only affecting us, because if we do that, then we're not understanding the fact that our Latinos, the Latinx brothers and sisters, are being disenfranchised by voting rights,

excuse me, by voter suppression. And there are several groups who are being marginalized in that regard. And furthermore, we know that we are stronger when we have allies. Black folks specifically stand up for everybody. And I think it's important for other folks to come in and stand up with us. We said this while on the show a couple weeks ago. It's imperative that the LGBTQ community stand up for us. The Latin folk while on the show a couple weeks ago. It's imperative that the LGBTQA community stand up for us. The Latin folk, the Asian folk, the white folk, the woke folk, whomever, need to come out and speak up for us. And again, we can't just say that this is only about voting rights, because we know that both the Senate, as well as members of certain members of the House, will just say, well, that's y'all thing. And when we're stronger, when we fight together,

we're stronger together. And I firmly believe that. Kadeem, obviously, so much attention is focused on this. In the video that I'm playing right now, you see disabled advocates there with their walkers in wheelchairs getting arrested. They wanted to be able to show that everybody cares about the issue of voting rights. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, the key thing to understand about legislation like the For the People Act and like the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act is that these are broad pieces of legislation that will affect all different types of people, Black people, people of Hispanic descent, Native Americans, people with disabilities. There are provisions in these bills that will address issues that affect every single one of these groups. That's why you have such a broad coalition of people fighting for these legislation. And that's why we can't give up the fight just because of the filibuster.

We really have to continue to push forward on advocacy for the filibuster to be eliminated. We need to push forward on advocacy for both pieces of voting rights legislation, the For the People Act and the John Lewis bill. And we have to, you know, continue to fight until the end of this congressional session. I think that the Democrats are starting to understand the urgency of this moment, but I think it's not going to happen unless we continue to to to fight um and that and that's what um reverend barber is doing so effectively today the um the the thing here wes uh with with with the different groups engaged uh in this and what

we're seeing um is is is is one of the things that Barbara keeps saying is that, look, you don't want to be a part of the public campaign, that's fine, but plan your own action. Do something. Do it in your state capitol. Pick another day.

Look, their deal is Moral Mondays. Well, who's who gonna pick Tuesday? Who's gonna pick Wednesday? The black women organizations, their action is on Thursday. There are days of the week that people can get involved in

and it has to be constant. It has to be constant pressure at the Hart Building. It has to be at the Capitol Building. INVOLVE IN AND IT HAS TO BE CONSTANT. IT HAS TO BE CONSTANT PRESSURE AT THE HEART BUILDING. IT HAS TO BE AT THE CAPITOL BUILDING. IT HAS TO BE AT THE SUPREME COURT. IT HAS TO BE IN FRONT OF THE WHITE HOUSE. RIGHT. RIGHT.

AND TO THAT POINT, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. I'M EXCITED TO ANNOUNCE THAT BLACK VOTERS MATTER AND OUR DEAR BROTHER CLIFF ALBRIGHT AS WELL AS THE 100 BLACK MEN OF AMERICA, OUR BLACK PARTY AND SEVERAL OTHER ORGANIZATIONS that Black Voters Matter and our dear brother Cliff Albright, as well as the 100 Black Men of America, our Black Party and several other organizations will be joining, will be actually taking over on Wednesday, Wednesday morning, meeting at 945, in which we'll be starting right near the African-American Museum and having a march to right outside of the White House to encourage President Biden to pick a side. And he has to do something, whether he's going to be on the side of white supremacists,

and if this is Jim Crow 2.0, then he needs to come out and end the filibuster and end voter suppression and use his voice and his leverage to do so. So I absolutely agree with you. There's room in this tent for everybody to do something. It's just about us, again, not only picking a date and not only picking an action,

but ensuring that we're keeping consistent and constant pressure. So you're saying that Black Voters Matter and black male groups will be gathering at 9.45 a.m. in front of the National Museum of African American History and Culture and be going from there to the White House on Wednesday? Yes, sir, on Wednesday. So, you know, we're looking forward to having Roland Martin unfiltered. I guess you get an exclusive. They're going to kill me for saying it too early. But yeah, we'll be, on Wednesday. So, you know, we're looking forward to having Roland Martin unfiltered. I guess you get an exclusive.

They're going to kill me for saying it too early. But, yeah, we'll be there on Wednesday. And, again, we're taking our days, and, you know, we're willing to go to jail. I've already been to jail standing with the sisters. The brothers are willing to stand up. Hey, it's constant. It's consistent. And we got to do it.

This is important. So everybody who's online talking about this should happen, that should happen, this ain't going to work, that ain't going to work. Everybody, a lot of these groups have days every day of the week. There's an opportunity for you to do action. Shout out to my brother, Stephen Green. There's a big march going on on Friday as well. Hey, come on. Get active.

Stop tweeting. Stop Instagramming. And let's get in the streets and let's do some work. You may want to see me. I don't have the Friday information. Yeah, I'll get that to you. You may want to see me. I don't have the Friday information. So they want to see that. They may want to send that to me. I do. I do want to I do want to ask

we do want to ask you this question here that I think is really important, Kadeem. And that is when we talk about, you know, again, inside, outside. I mean, the law is committed to civil rights under law. Y'all are on the inside. Y'all are involved in the negotiation, the meetings that have been taking place with the presidents. Explain to the people why external pressure

helps the inside strategy. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I'll give you an example. Senator Manchin, four or five months ago, he was adamantly against passage of the For the People Act. He just thought that it was too partisan. It was never going to get done. But there was constant pressure, both grassroots pressure in West Virginia and pressure in D.C. Phone calls, marches, you know, letters, everything was just focused on Senator Manchin and really pushing him to explain why, as a Democrat, he wasn't backing this voting rights legislation.

And now what we see is Senator Manchin is at the table. He's negotiating with Senator Schumer. He's trying to come together. He's trying to find a solution that's going to allow him to save face, given what he's already said. But that negotiation would never have happened. It never would have come to be if it wasn't for the constant grassroots pressure of the activist community. And that's why we're, you know, as somebody who works at more of a civil rights organization that deals with policy, I am so grateful for the work of these activists.

And I'm so grateful that there are people who are willing to be out in the streets every day, every week to get this stuff done. I mean, we could never do our work without that grassroots pressure. See, Omokongo, the thing that really jumps out here is that you always have the folk who don't really want the external pressure,

but then when they get to the end of their rope, then they're like, well, can y'all do something? That's why the two go hand in hand. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, both of you brothers for what you're doing and the other brothers that you mentioned as well, because we give all of our praise to the

sisters as we should every single day and it's great to see brothers out there standing with our sisters making this happen because we are one community. And to go back to your point, Roland, at the end of the day even with Dr. King, everybody knew that. He was the external pressure outside along with other groups, organizations. It can't be a one thing or a two thing. It has to be both hands knocking down the door at the same time.

And every single opportunity that we get, we got days in the week, we got different times of the day. We got to get out there and doing that. So for all of y'all who are saying, well, we just vote for the president. We'll see you in four years, not even two years, but we'll see you in four years and it's all good. If we haven't learned by now that the pressure has to never stop and that has to come from every single angle, from the streets to the suites, we're never going to get it now. And so I'm so happy that you got these brothers on right now. And we are seeing that this is grassroots and it's happening at every level. Avis, and I think when you talk about these senators, they need to feel that heat wherever

they go. If they have a town hall meeting, feel it. If they're meeting with lobbyists, they got to be there. If they are, again, same thing, President Biden, when he goes home to Wilmington, Delaware, and when he decides to go play golf, he better see some, he needs to see some signs outside the crib, outside the golf course as well. I mean, that's the thing. That's when we talk about constant, constant pressure. Absolutely. Constant pressure is very important. And let me just be very clear about my point here. As a political scientist who has worked on it with policy advocacy for over two decades now in terms of what really happens with regards to how to willpower and to push things across the finish line in Congress, I will tell you that muddled messaging is not your friend. Muddled messaging is not your friend. Muddled messaging is not your friend.

If we had people all over this nation all asking, you know, for, like, let me just say, to make this most effective this summer, the one thing we need to focus on is voting rights. Voting rights, voting rights, voting rights, and voting rights. And even if the argument is that we want people not to leave for this, for any sort of vacation right about now, it's, you know, it's one ask is better than five asks. That was just my point in terms of really making that happen. You know, I think it's really critical to know that this ask needs to be powerful. It needs to be replicated. And I think that it's nothing wrong with us unapologetically advocating on behalf of Black people. Obviously, the attacks against voting rights aren't only focused on Black people. But let's

be clear, it's primarily targeting us. It's primarily targeting how we vote in terms of the specific rules changes that have been implemented or at least sort of caught up in legislation all across this nation, because the other side understands very well, and I would argue perhaps understands better than the Democratic Party, exactly how powerful the Black vote is. And so, with surgical precision across this country, they are pushing for eliminating or at least greatly damaging our access to the ballot box. And I think that, as Black people, we should be focused on that protection of that right,

that right that many of our ancestors laid down their lives for. And, yes, since that time, lots of people have benefited from those sacrifices. All types of people have benefited from those sacrifices. But I think people have benefited from those sacrifices. But I think it's important that we understand that right now, our voting rights in particular, not only, but in particular, is in the crosshairs across this nation with 48 different state legislatures. And we need to rise up across this nation unapologetically and fight specifically for that. Focused messaging brings a bigger impact. And that's what we need to do in order to fight back and make sure that our voting rights

are protected. West. West, I mean- Well, I- Yes, I mean- West, go ahead. Can you hear me? West, go ahead.

Yeah, well, I'll just say, with respect to the sister, as a fellow political scientist, I'm the political science department chairman at Virginia State University. I hear you wholeheartedly in regards to focus messages. There you go. Hell State Trojan Pride. So we're going to have you come back and speak to the kids. But in any event, I agree with you in regards to focus messaging. I just think that in order for us to bring more people into the tent because of the fact that we know that black folk represent a significant portion of the population, but we're not the totality. We're not the largest portion of the totality. Excuse me, the largest portion of the population. And furthermore, if we want to bring other folks in to make our message louder, to make our voices louder, we're going to have to be willing to bring in some of their issues. That's just the way in which the game, in my personal opinion, this is a numbers game. When are they going to fight for us? I do not see other. Let me just say,

why is it only the Black community's responsibility to take up everybody's cross? Why is that the case? I would love to see Latinos of their own volition out there fighting for voting rights. I don't see it. I would love to see other groups out there of their own volition fighting for voting rights, where we know it's specifically in those areas where we are targeted. When we take our political power that our ancestors fought and died for and bled for, and then diffuse it by allowing it to disperse across a variety of issues, we are not maximizing the impact of our power. And we're the only ones making that sacrifice, not everybody else. I understand numbers.

I understand proportions. I understand that we're not the majority of the population. And I understand that we, more than anybody else in this nation's history, understand how to play the game of coalition politics. We've played it better than everybody else. That's what's led to the civil rights advancements that we fought and died for, and that, quite frankly, everybody else has benefited for

largely more than we have. Let's just be real about that, too. What did I just said... We need to be very real. Julianne, hold on. Julianne, hold on. Julianne. West... I'm going to West, then Julianne.

Well, I'll just say this part. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening. We had a coalition of brothers and sisters from the Latino community all join, go to jail in Arizona. Literally just last week, there were several brothers and sisters who went down to participate as well, fighting on behalf of voter rights. We have some folks who also be joining days and taking days in terms of advocating for voting rights next week. So, again, like just because we don't see something, it doesn't mean that it's not happening. Hold on. Let me finish. Let me finish this.

Let me finish. And Jordan, are you doing it here? Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm gonna let Wes finish like I told him to finish when you were talking. Then I'm gonna go to Julianne. Wes, go. Yeah, so again, just a point.

I firmly agree with you. Other groups have to get on board with us. And as we said, again, LGBTQ plus communities, Asian folk, Latino folks and so forth. But it's on us to not only hold them accountable, but we know black folk have always had to save this country. I'm sorry that that's just the way that it is. But we're going to have to hold these other groups accountable. And I have no issues with doing so, calling them out while still advocating for my people. And as you alluded to, we know coalition building better than anybody because we've been forced to do so. And now it's no different. We have to bring other folks into the tent and we have to make sure that our voice is as loud as it can be.

Julianne, Beth. There are no rights without voting rights. That's the bottom line. In an earlier segment, Rolla, you said I had to pick. So I picked. I'm picking what Avis is saying because it is important. There are no rights without voting rights. We can't get the fight for 15 if we can't get the people who can vote for that. We can't get people the eviction moratorium extended unless we get people who vote for that. so while all the issues that are on the table and the fight against predatory capitalism is paramount it also the voting rights piece is the the taking of black voting rights is original not the original sin with the original voting rights sin in 1916 1865

etc so you know why while I respect the brother who's the chair of something, something, somewhere, somewhere, with all due respect... I'm sorry, I'm sorry, hold up. He's the chair of social advocacy for the 100 black men of America and is the former vice chair of the city council for Charlottesville, Virginia.

All right, well, props lifted up, props lifted up. And I chair... I am the dean of the College of Ethnic Studies, which has Pan-African Studies, Chicano Latino X Studies, and Asian American Studies reporting to me. And what I would say is that these people work well together, but African-American folks tend to be at the cutting edge of fighting for voting rights. We just have to own that. And we just have to say, I'm not saying that these other issues are not important. I don't say that we have to

ride in the tent. But if we have a very short period of time, if we have a month, in that month can we get the For the People Act passed? In that month, can we get the filibuster eliminated? And I don't hear many of these groups talking about that. Maybe I don't hear everything. You know, I don't run the streets, so I don't hear anything, everything. But what I do hear folks saying is, we gotta put everything on the table.

Reverend Barber is my buddy, a very long standing, but, and I agree with him about a lot, but can we sequence this stuff because there are no rights without voting rights? They are, oh my God. There are! Oh, my God! Can you please read? No. Y'all, show the video, please. I need you to show the video.

Read the sign. I can't see the video. That's the sign. Okay? I need you to read the sign. If we're gonna sit here... Look, if we're gonna sit here, look, if we gonna sit here and have this conversation, please read the sign.

Number one, no, no, no, no, listen. Number one on the sign says, it says in the filibuster. That's number one. Okay? Look. Go to my computer. This is the sign from last week.

Number two, pass all provisions of the For the People Act. Number three, fully restore the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Number three, fully restore the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Number four, raise the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. Number five, permanent protections for all undocumented immigrants. They have established the order. So can we stop saying there needs to be an order when they have one? They have one. It's there. They've outlined it. But it's also the poor people's campaign agenda.

So, again, if we please stop. Again, Barbara has been real clear on this. Kadeem, I saw you smiling when all these credentials were being thrown left and right, who's chair it is and who's chair it is and who's a political scientist. Kadeem, go ahead with your comment. What can I say?

I think there's room for many different strategies in the movement. I think, yes, we want to continue to advocate for voting rights as a critical issue, but we also have critical issues facing the renter community with the end of this eviction moratorium. And people are going to be out in the streets in the weeks to come. So I don't want to lose sight of the issues that animate the Poor People's Campaign, which is the livelihoods of poor people, Black and brown and white, in this country. So, you know, I don't expect the Poor People's Campaign to only focus on voting rights when there are so many other critical issues

facing poor people at this juncture in time. And let me also say this here, as somebody who has been covering all of these protests and acts of civil disobedience, do y'all know who's actually had the largest gathering? Poor people's campaign. So to Wes's point, to Wes's point, we talk about people. Today, more than 300 people got arrested today. Y'all, the previous access to disobedience, the max was 10. Nine. Nine. Nine.

That's wonderful that 300 people got arrested, but we still... Here's my challenge, you guys. Let me just say one other thing. So the first priority here, as you've laid it, this is an order of priority. The first priority here is in the filibuster. That's number one. If the strategy is that we put voting behind that, then we'll

never even get to that, number one. Let's just be real about that. The filibuster ain't going to be ended. But no, no, no, no, no, no. Avis, Avis, Avis, hold up, hold up. Avis, you can't, Avis, you can't, no, hold up, Avis, Avis. This is factual. Avis, wait a minute, Avis. Avis, this is factual. Avis, you can't, no, hold up, Avis, Avis, this is factual. No, Avis, wait a minute, Avis, Avis, this is factual.

Avis, one second, Avis, Avis, one second, Avis, Avis, Avis, Avis, Avis, this is factual. You're not going to get the For the People Act unless you actually do end the filibuster on this bill. My first, no, no, that's not true. There's another way to do this. What is it? You can cut out an exception. That's what we're talking about. Can I finish? Can I finish? Can I finish? Because these are two different things. I think we need to be very clear when we are telling the public about what's at stake here and strategy, and the strategy to get it.

One strategy is completely eliminate the filibuster. My argument with that is, I'm not even in favor of that. Why? Because we are not going to be in the majority forever, number one. Number two, I am in favor of cutting out an exception that would specifically protect voting rights, which I believe is absolutely necessary. I agree with you. That is necessary in order to move forward on voting rights. You're not going to get... Avis, Avis.

We have to... If we end the filibuster, then we better not ever lose another election. Avis, the sign don't... First of all, when you say in the filibuster, okay, as somebody who has talked to the leaders, they understand the carve

out, but you also make the demand of in the filibuster, which then leads somebody to say, again, it's already worked. Them pressing in the filibuster caused Senator Mark Warner of Virginia

to agree to the carve-out. So the strategy, hold up. So the strategy is if I ask for the carve-out, hell, they're going to say no to that. So they're saying if I ask for in the filibuster, then you agree to the carve out. I'm still getting to number two. I understand. I understand basic power and negotiations. But what I am saying here, what I am saying is that I'm hearing everyone echo and I want the

general public to understand that there is a difference here that has yet to be expressed previous to that point that you just made and that I just made, everybody was just saying, in the filibuster, in the filibuster, in the filibuster. I want individuals who don't live in or around D.C., aren't immersed in this issue every day, to understand the nuances here. What even though that is a good negotiating tactic to ask, you always ask for more than what you expect to get. That's basic negotiation. I wish President Obama would have learned that. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, so listen, that's, that's not how, I say this respectfully and I'm not trying to like throw credentials out, but this is a major difference between like theorists,

academics, or academicians. No, let me finish, please. Let me finish, let me finish. Hold on, Avis, hold on. Wes, go ahead. Hold up, one second, one second. Avis, Avis, Avis, stop. Avis, I'm going to let you respond.

Avis, stop. Avis, A'm going to let you respond. Avis, stop. Avis, Avis, I'm going to let you respond. Hold on. Avis, stop. Avis, stop. Wes is going to talk. I'm going to let you respond. But here's the deal.

You talking over him don't mean nothing because can't nobody hear either one of y'all. So, Wes, make your point. Avis, I'm going to come back to you to make your point. Wes, go. So, it's very clear in my personal opinion. You have a very small window when you're messaging to people who may not understand what the filibuster is, who may not understand what exactly we're fighting for. So, you have to go for the gusto, if you will. You understand what exactly we're fighting for. So you have to go for the gusto, if you will. You tell them we're fighting to end the filibuster. You don't tell them on the front end that we want to fight to just amend it or we want to carve out a certain section.

Because as Roland alluded to, individuals like Senator Mark Warner, who I consider to be a friend of mine, we've talked about the filibuster on several occasions. Without us saying very boldly and consistently end it, he would not be where he is right now. And people, as our community as a whole, we can educate them on what it is that we're pushing for, while still saying in totality we want to end the filibuster because we know it's a strategy. You're not going to get votes in the House, in the Senate, on the state level, or on the local level, by going in with the minimum initially. You just said you understand negotiation tactics. Then you know that we have to go for the ghost to speak in terms of language in which we're going to cut the head out in the filibuster now so that we can get somewhere else later.

And we can simultaneously educate our people in totality about what this means. Avis, now go. How is that different from what I just said? I just said that I understand the basics of power and negotiation, and I understand that you ask for more than what you expect to receive. But what I also said is that

I don't want your viewing public rolling. You have a huge platform, and I kind of think that my people are intelligent enough to understand nuance. Therefore, I wanted to explain to your viewing public the difference between the ending the filibuster and what the repercussions of that would be in the broad sense, if that actually were to happen, versus the carve-out, such that, when the carve-out happens, people aren't sitting here saying, oh, God, it's the carve-out. That's not worth anything. I want people to really

understand the backroom politics of this and exactly what we can ultimately expect in order to be able to push forward what we want to push forward without, at the end of the day, coming back and hurting ourselves in the future when we are no longer the majority in the Senate. I think our people are intelligent enough to understand that. Our folks already know the carve-out, Avis. They already know the carve-out.

They already know the carve-out because Mitch McConnell did it three times. Mitch McConnell did it they know the carve-out. We're trying to get, and we're trying to get the Democrats to do it. Yeah, but what I'm saying is, our people know to carve out. They get it.

Are we not trying to get him to do that? So what I'm saying, though, is that prior to, you can say that people understand that, but the point is prior to me raising this point, this panel to a person was going around saying, in the filibuster, in the filibuster, in the filibuster, all I was trying to do was to speak to my people in a way so they can understand what is actually going on in D.C. right

now, such that when the filibuster isn't ended, they might not be so disappointed to say, well, we didn't get that, and understand that there are different ways to get to the end game outside of that big picture thing that a lot of people are messaging around that actually can actually, at the end of the day, come back and bite us in the ass when we are no longer in the majority. People need to understand that. Well, first of all, again, as, as second. Hold up. Hold up. One second. One second. I'm going to go. Julian Kadeem Omokongo

Wes. Julian, go. Avis, I think that both you and Wes are kind of being... Respectfully, I say this, but condescending to our people. Our people are not stupid. They understand... Actually, there are a lot of stupid Americans, but condescending to our people. Our people are not stupid. They understand... Actually, there are a lot of stupid Americans,

but go ahead. There are people, white people out there, but I think that a lot of black people understand this issue. And when you say, I have to explain this, because we know that the filibuster has often helped us and also often hurt us. I think that people are very capable

of dealing with the issue of nuance. I, you know, I'm kind of tired of us in the Washington bubble, assuming, now that I live in L.A., assuming that people outside the Washington bubble don't get it. We get it. People get it.

No, what I'm saying is that most people aren't. Their whole lives don't... Ho, ho, ho, ho. Julianne finish. I just think that we need to give Black people and other people more credit. There are no rights without voting rights. There are no rights without voting rights,

and we have to be very, very clear about that. Kadeem. Well, personally, I don't know that I agree that we need to preserve the filibuster in order to preserve democratic power when Democrats are in the minority. I think what we've seen again and again is that the filibuster operates in a conservative way. It prevents policies that help the poor, help people of color from becoming law. It's not something that Democrats can really wield effectively because the Democrats are often trying to push for legislation, trying to push for progressive measures to pass. We're not trying to prevent laws

from getting passed, typically. And so I kind of don't see the strategic value of having the filibuster preserved just in case Democrats need to block some type of Republican legislation. I just, I don't really see us, you know, I don't see that scenario happening very often. So I kind of think that having end the filibuster be our rallying cry, it's a good rallying cry because we should have a democracy that works where the majority in the

Senate passes laws. We shouldn't have a minority in the Senate, um, preventing laws that have majority support from becoming law. And I think that's a principle that should exist whether Democrats are in the majority or in the minority. We should stand for democracy as a people. And guess what? If you pass the Florida People Act,

you're probably gonna be winning as opposed to losing. Omicongo, you get to make the final comment. I think what has been impressive to me about this, about this powerful debate is that in this conversation, we have members of the academic, the activists, the legal, the journalistic, as well as the arts community as well, who've had an intense debate about the same goal in a country where people can't have a debate like this without descending to name-calling and other types of vitriol. So I commend everybody tonight for leading the way as it relates to this conversation. And for people who don't see how people engage in terms of leaders and how

they engage in terms of how we're going to take action, this was like course 101. And I know you do this every night, Roland Martin, so a lot of you viewers are already used to it. But in order to go forward, these are the types of conversations that need to continue. They'll get intense, but we all have our eyes on the prize, and let's make sure that we're not losing focus on that because it's all about our liberation. All right. With that, this segment is over.

If y'all want to talk over each other, call each other on the phone. Let me thank Kadeem West. Let me thank Macongo, Avis, Julian. I certainly appreciate it. We were going to show one of... Actually, we have an interview with one of our book authors. I'm going to hold that for tomorrow.

And so, because we are out of time. Otherwise, we'd be here until 9 o'clock. This is not a three-hour show just yet. It's still two hours. If y'all want to support what we do please join our bring the funk fan club every dollar that you give goes to support the show allows for us to be able to live stream uh the four hour event today allowed us to be able to travel to austin texas and let me just help you all out and again and i tell y'all, I'm very open and honest about what we do.

Last week, us traveling to Austin and being able to cover that event from Tuesday all the way through Sunday cost us $15,000. Okay? $15,000. And that's travel, that's per diem, that's security, that's our live streaming fees. I mean, that's what it actually cost us. And so if we're able to get, let's say, 300 of our fan club members to give an average of 50 bucks each, that covers the cost of that particular trip. I give you these numbers because I need you to understand that the costs are real. Black News Channel is not black- owned. They got a billionaire,

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