#RolandMartinUnfiltered - DeSantis signs FL election law; Roland, Jane Elliott tussle w/ CJ Pearson over Trump, voting, racism

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

5.6.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: DeSantis signs FL election law; Roland, Jane Elliott, #RMU tussle with CJ Pearson over Trump, racism, voter suppression, the "Big Lie"Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens. Before you leave the car, always stop, look, lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Thank you. Today is Thursday, May 6, 2021. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs the controversial voter election bill, SB90, another voter suppression bill.

We will talk with Cliff Albright, co-founder of Black Voters Matter. They've already filed a lawsuit against the state of Florida. Also, Jane Elliott, diversity educator, anti-racist, will join us for a conversation about race in America and why the Republican Party is all about stoking white fear. In Mississippi, a black child killed in a police chase when cops shot his dad.

In Massachusetts, the family of McKayla Miller, who was found hanging from a tree, wants answers, and the South Carolina House recently voted to bring back firing squads. How stupid are these Republicans? And in Alabama, a teacher throws an object at students having a heated debate about the death of Makia Bryant. Folks, it is time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin on time. And it's rolling. Best believe he's knowing.

Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's on go, go, go, yo. It's rolling, Martin. Yeah. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real. The best you know, he's rolling.

Martin. Martin. All right, folks, more Republican shenanigans. As expected, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs their voter suppression bill, Senate Bill 90. The purpose of the bill is to impose more onerous regulations on ballot drop boxes, cutting them drastically, restrict third-party voter registration organizations, and place new voting rules by mail. Now, DeSantis banned all

media from attending the bill signing. He gave it as an exclusive on Fox News. During a news conference in Panama City Beach, DeSantis was asked why he barred all other media outlets. Why did you only allow Fox News to capture the moment you signed the controversial election bill? So we did a wonderful bill signing for this great elections bill.

And it was live on national television on Fox and Friends. And we were happy to give them the exclusive on that. And I think I think it went really really well but that's broadcast to millions of people not just and obviously throughout the whole country but a huge number of people in Florida are watching that we had a crowd we probably had a thousand people in the crowd that were really cheering on so it was an exciting day to be able to do that and it's the first bill signing I've ever done live on a on a national broadcast and so it was good we also had a great visual aid that we were able to show where we're doing all the all the great things that

are in the bill and you know some of this stuff that was going on in other parts of the country where you have these big private groups come in and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to run elections. That is unacceptable. We are not allowing that in Florida. We're going to make sure our elections are transparent and they're not being funded by special interests. We're also going to continue with voter ID, which is very, very important to make sure that you are who you say you are. And we're also going to make sure that we don't have ballot harvesting. Okay, it's not for some political operative to get a satchel full of votes and dump them off. You get the vote, you send it in,

or you go vote in person. It's one thing to have a family member take, fine, but to have these paid operatives go out there and do it like they do in California and like they do in some of these other states, that's a big, big problem. You know, voting is supposed to be a secret ballot. You're supposed to go in, you have the booth and all this stuff. And then you have ballot harvesting. You have people that are going around and messing around with other people's votes like that. I think it's a terrible for for for our country. So Florida, we just said, no, we're not going to do it. So I think it was a really positive day. We got a lot of great feedback on it. And we're proud that we were going to do it. So I think it was a really positive day. We got a lot of great feedback on it, and we're proud that we were able to do it on national television.

Thanks, everybody. That was a pure trash-ass example that he gave right there. So you screw the Florida voters by not having Florida media cover it, but you say, oh, millions are watching on Fox News. The new law, folks, goes into effect immediately but will face heavy opposition in court. It's already been faced with lawsuits by the League of Women Voters of Florida. They filed a 69-page lawsuit in a U.S. District Court in Tallahassee. Also, Black Voters Matter, they've

also filed a lawsuit along with others. Joining us right now is Cliff Albright, co-founder of Black Voters Matter. Cliff, glad to have you on the show. This is real simple, Cliff. Republicans, we saw it in Georgia. We knew what was going to happen. They're doing the exact same thing in Texas. We saw the same thing in Iowa. Republicans are angry that Donald Trump lost.

They're angry that Democrats won the Senate. And so what they are doing right now is putting these voter suppression bills in place, restricting ballot drop boxes, because they do not like the fact that more people voted in the last election than ever before. Yeah, and nowhere else was that the case as much as you saw in Florida, where they had record turnout, 70-70% turnout. Vote by mail alone, Democratic voters voted 680,000 more. That wasn't the total, not 680,000 ballots, but 680,000 more vote by mail ballots than what Republicans cast. That's exactly why they're so upset. They're scared, right? And really what's ironic is that vote by mail in Florida has traditionally been a Republican operation.

It's been something that they created, their legislature created, that their governor's been fine with, that their voters have used more than our folks, than black voters. But in this election, because of what happened, they are terrified. And because of that, they're coming up with these lame excuses and these lame, you know, that press conference that you showed. His lack of answer to the question, right, the question was, why was Fox the only one there? And he completely didn't answer the question. That's the same thing that happens whenever anybody asks them, why are you doing this bill, this voter suppression bill, when there was, in fact, no fraud. In fact, they themselves said that their elections were the gold standard. And so after praising their own elections that they ran,

then they felt the need to try to fight against fraud. It's nothing but fear. It's nothing but a strict power grab. It's nothing but white supremacy, and it's not going to work. And what it is is it is absolute white fear. It is fear of minority voters. It's fear of them turning out in record numbers.

That's what's going on here. All this talk about voter integrity is pure trash because the election was certified by all 50 states, including Republican secretaries of state, including Republican governors. That's facts. Right. No, that's exactly the fact. And what you see happening is that in Florida, Florida is actually the first state to pass one of these major, major voter suppression bills that Trump had actually won. Right. In Georgia, it was because their anger was because of what had already happened. In Florida, as is the case in Texas, what the fear is, is what's about to happen. They see us coming. They see our numbers. They see the work that we're doing on the ground. Florida, as is the case in Texas, what the fear is, is what's about to happen. They see us coming. They see our numbers. They see the work that we're doing on the ground. And when I say we, I mean a range of organizations within this black and brown organizing ecosphere. They see what's going on and they see the writing on the wall and they're terrified.

And because of that, they know that the only way that they can win is cheating. I remind people all the time, you don't cheat when you're winning, right? If you're a spades player, Roland, like I'm sure you are, you don't renege when you're winning, right? You renege when you're losing. That's what's happening in Florida. That's what's happening in Texas. That's what happened in Georgia. That's what's happening in a lot of these states. And again,

we're ready for him because we had this lawsuit ready to go. As soon as he signed it, the ink wasn't even dry and our lawsuit papers were being filed. Well, and the thing here is there's no doubt. If they had won, Trump would have said, wonderful, fantastic

election. It's great. Change nothing. Right. That's exactly the case because, in fact, what we know is he and his family voted by mail. We know that there's a lot of Republican officials that have voted by mail, including some that don't even live in the state. But that's a whole nother story. Right. And so. So, yes, exactly right. What you said is that if they had won and won not just the state, but won the presidential election, if they had won the Senate, then we wouldn't.

I mean, we'd probably still be seeing some of this because, again, they'd still be afraid of what's coming, right? They'd still see the writing on the wall. But the way that they've responded, the breadth, the depth, the speed of their response, the ferocity of the response that they're doing, you know, criminalizing, giving out food and water, you know, the restrictions on the drop boxes in some states, including, you know, in Texas, criminalizing elected officials who might send out ballot or ballot applications to voters. The way that they're responding, again, is nothing but white terror, white fear stemming from white supremacy. All right, Cliff Albright, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. We appreciate it. Keep up the great work. All right. Thank you, Roland.

All right. Let's go to my panel. Welcome back, Reesey Colbert, Black Women Views. Glad to have you back after maternity leave. Dr. Greg Carr, chair of the Department of Afro-American Studies, Howard University. C.J. Pearson, founder, president, Last Hope USA. C.J., I'll start with you. You're one of those folks who participated in a stop-the-steal election in Georgia.

You're one of those folks who advanced the big lie. You're one of those folks who lied about the integrity of the elections. You've had Republican Secretary of State in Georgia certify the election. Why do y'all keep lying? Well, it's not a lie. And then the reality of it is that the facts state that a majority of Republican voters genuinely believe that this election was wrought with fraud. Hold up. You said the facts. What facts? Because there's been no evidence of voter fraud.

Well, Roland, if you want me to answer your question, then maybe I'll get to that. But really what I was speaking to is the fact that a majority of Republican voters believe that this election was wrought with fraud. And I don't know about you, Roland, but when a majority of Americans believe... No, no, no, stop, stop.

You didn't say a majority of Americans. You said a majority of Republicans. Don't try to conflate the two. A majority of Americans do not believe the election was that case. You say Republicans. Well, Republicans represent half of America. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. That's not true. You said a majority of Americans. Where are the facts? I believe.

No, no, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You said a majority of Americans believe that. Which one is it, Americans or Republicans? It's not good for democracy when a large portion of the American people believe that our election was stolen, it was wrought with fraud. That is not good for our country. Do you have any facts of this fraud? Where are the facts?

Because if I'm correct, 50 states certified the election, 50 secretaries of state certified it, 60 different courts heard challenges. Y'all lost every time. Where are your facts? Not what people think. Where are your facts to substantiate what you're saying?

Well, based on the current laws that were on the book prior to these incredible election reforms advancing the state of Georgia, Texas, and Florida, they were able to certify the results based on the current laws on the book. It's why we're reforming the system. It's why we're making it easier to vote and harder to choose. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You cited all this voter fraud. CJ, where are the facts? I need to see the evidence of voter fraud.

Where is it? There are many facts. Where is it? Hold on. Dan Patrick, the lieutenant governor of Texas. C.J., Dan Patrick, lieutenant governor of my state, said he will pay a million dollars if someone comes forward with evidence of election fraud. He has not paid a million. Where's the evidence? The fact of the matter is, Roland, is that the American people deserve to have confidence in their lives. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. no, no. CJ, CJ, that's a talking point.

I'm going to ask you again. Please provide me. No, no, no, no, no. Please point me to actual facts of election fraud, voter fraud. Yeah. Look at Ware County, Georgia, when we had a manual recount of the votes where

I think a hundred or so votes were changed because they were miscounted. Like that is a real. I'm sorry. Hold on. I'm sorry. Did the Republican secretary of state state what happened there? Well, I hate to give you a civics lesson, Roland, but the counting of ballots is done at the local level. I'm aware of that. But who has the jurisdiction over the elections? The local board of elections conduct the elections. The secretary of state oversees the elections. And so if there was actual election fraud that what you say would claim there, where's the district attorney? Did they indict anybody?

Well, they should. No, no, no. Yes or no. Did they indict anybody? Well, I can't speak to which county was that? So which county was that? I can't speak to the. No, the- Which county was that? No. Which county was that? I can't speak to the- No, no. Which county was that? Ware County. Ware? Ware County.

Is there a Republican DA or a Democrat DA there? I can't speak to that, but I will say that I'm speaking to what happened with the election voting there, and that happened with the manual recount that occurred. Uh-huh. I got- Uh-huh. Things like that happen when you have votes literally changed to another candidate. I think people have a right to be afraid about what's going to happen.

So, but it's very curious. I'm going to bring in my panel. It's very curious, Greg, what you hear what CJ is saying, because he can't provide actual facts. He can't provide this widespread. And he wants us to, well, because Republicans think, well, hell, it's a bunch of folks think Bigfoot real. Yeah. It's a lot of people that think the United States of America is a nation, too.

That's another myth. But, I mean, let's get back to the topic. I got a chance to read the lawsuit that was filed by the NAACP of Florida, Disability Rights Florida and Common Cause, versus the secretary of state there, Lee. And of course, they're claiming that these new laws will violate Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Section 1983 and 88 of the federal code, Voting Rights Act Section II. And that's going to be heard by a court of appeals, Northern District of Florida.

Ultimately, that'll be appealed to the 11th Circuit. That's one of the many circuits that the Trump administration with the White Nationalist Party was able to flip. And if you read Justice Clarence Thomas's recent dissent in a voting rights case, you know that some of the gaslighting that we just heard found its way into Justice Thomas's dissent. That brings me to the point. Back in December, the American Legislative Executive Council, ALEC rather, met, and they had a voter integrity working group. So, these bills that we're seeing in Georgia and Florida and Texas, these are not individual pieces. They come of a larger piece with an eye toward one objective, and that is to retake the federal legislature and to retake the White House. And let's be very clear. When we start talking about facts and arguing with these folks,

we're not on the same page, because this isn't about facts. This isn't about making points, because there is no common identity. The white nationalists that met with ALEC included Hans von Spakowsky, who of course we know is a chief architect of this rather ridiculous stuff, several of the folks who were on Trump's, quote, unquote, voter integrity commission that fell apart, that was led, if you remember, by the flop sweat brother of the corn-pwned governor of Florida, and that would be Chris Kobach, who's right now running for secretary of state in Kansas and will lose that election as well. But the whole point is to continue gaslight, to continue propagandize, and to shrink the electorate to the point where they can steal elections.

Finally, I'll say this. I wish them the best of luck, because, see, what people don't seem to understand is, you might steal an election, but what you won't then do is get rid of all the people whose votes you stole. This country is going to come apart. And I just hope our young brother, who I'm very glad to see be a freshman there at the University of Alabama, who might sit and read some of these cases and think through some of this legislation and maybe change some of the language, will have a front row seat in the state of Alabama. Well, maybe. Well, had he not transferred from Howard, he maybe would learn some of the language, will have a front row seat in the state of Alabama. Well, had he not transferred from Howard, he may be able to learn some of those in your

class, but he went to Alabama. Let me go to Reese. Reese is very interesting. Very interesting. CJ mentioned Ware County, 100 votes. Go to my computer, please. This is the Ware County election supervisor, Carlos Nelson. He told the Associated Press that an election worker made a small tabulation error that involved 37 votes.

Quote, election officials discovered the mistake during an internal audit and corrected the figure in the full hand recount of paper ballots. There was never an issue with the technology from Dominion. Quote, there was no vote flipping. The system worked like it should. Oh, by the way, CJ, the 37 votes in Ware County made no difference. That was a county Donald Trump won with 70% of the vote. So you're complaining about, oh, votes being stolen were in a county your guy won with 70% of the vote. I would think that if there was actually voter fraud, a county Trump won by 70%

would be probably real aggressive prosecuting those who did, maybe because it doesn't exist. Recy. It's good to be back. I see not much has changed in my hiatus. Welcome, CJ, to the fire. It's good to see you, Dr. Karin Rowland. Okay, let's just be clear. I mean, we all know what this is all about, right? We've been having the same discussion for years. It's so amazing to me how Republicans cite the system working as designed, which is the system identifying tabulation errors, things of that nature, and corrected them before

any kind of election is called as evidence of voter fraud. It's completely absurd. The system is not centralized. It's not perfect in the sense of there are times that there are legitimate errors, but those errors have been discovered. They have been raked over the coals. They have been dissected with a fine-tooth comb, and there's no layer there. In fact, the only real evidence of voters' fraud has come from the Republicans. Let's remember when there was an entire congressional seat that was not seated for X number of months. I don't remember the exact number of months because the Republicans were conducting absentee ballot fraud in North Carolina. And so where we've had people, there was a person, I was reading another case the other day about a Republican who voted for his mother on behalf of his mother,

supposedly, in the election. That was a Republican. So what this is all about, it's all about gaslighting, as Dr. Carr said. And it's all about trying to create this fear narrative that makes Republicans believe that the elections are stolen. The fact that CJ is citing that 50 percent of Republicans are delusional or 70 percent of Republicans are delusional and living in an alternate universe in which two plus two does not equal four, that's not a flex, okay? That's called go get some therapy, go back to math class, you're not smarter than a fifth grader. This is the reality. Ron DeSantis is up for election in 2022. He barely won his election. And we know there were some shenanigans down in Florida with some stuff that was never really fully investigated or even disclosed about voting machine errors down in

Florida. Nobody seems to remember that but me. He barely won that election by the skin of his teeth. He has some people coming for him, perhaps Valdemex or some other heavy hitters. We also have a Senate seat that's up in 2022. And so this is really about solidifying that power. To be honest, Florida is more of a red state than a lot of these other states, and even Georgia at this point. But they aren't going to leave any stone unturned, and they're going to try to put these laws in place so that they can have even larger margins. But the one thing that I think could potentially backfire, in addition to the fact that we have a Biden-Harris DOJ with Merrick Garland at the helm, is that when you do these voter suppressive measures, you give people more time to counteract it.

You give them more time to make those arrangements, which is what we saw people do in Georgia and around the country for 2020. So I just want to know, CJ, why do y'all have to keep lying? I mean, every time you get debunked with the lies, y'all come up with a new lie. Why don't y'all figure out actually how to have policies to attract more people? But why do you keep, why do you, specifically you, keep advocating the absolute lie and there's no proof?

I've asked you now six times, show some proof. You threw out Ware County, 100 votes, it was 37, and it's a red county. So any other proof you got? You got anything? Well, the fact of the matter and it's a red county so any other proof you got you got anything well the fact of the matter it's bigger than that it's about the again it's about the ability for the american people to have confidence in our elections because that is what makes america america the ability for people to have faith in the votes that they cast making it easier to vote harder to cheat if you're against that i really don't know what to tell you roland because the

end of the day you can say that you can call 50 percent half the country delusional, deluded, wrong, crazy, whatever. But it doesn't detract from the reality that it is not good for our country's stability for people to not be able to have faith in our election. So hold on, CJ, CJ, CJ. So if y'all listen to a liar, if y'all listen to a liar in Donald Trump, if y'all follow a liar in Donald Trump and the liar makes all of y'all repeat the lie and then he browbeats other Republicans in repeating the lie, don't you think folks are going to start repeating the lie? Because again, you keep talking about most Americans and folk not believing in this. Well, here's the deal. This is an NPR, PBS NewsHour, Marist survey.

60% of Americans, one quarter of Republicans, trust the results of a 2020 presidential election. 60%, 56% approve of how the president-elect is handling himself during the transition. So 60% of Americans trusted the election. So what you just said is a lie. You said half. 60% is 60% half. To the point that you just said, you said only 25 of Republicans trusted the election results. I mean, 75. It ain't our fault. Y'all believe a liar. Well, the point that I'm making is bigger than that, Roland.

It's about the stability of our nation. But here's the deal. Can you provide me some proof? Here's what I need. Here's the deal. If CJ told me, Roland, Reesey can't cook. And I was like, well, hell, the only way I need to know if Reese's can't cook is if I eat Reese's food. Now, if I go eat Reese's food and it tastes good, I'm like, CJ, you full of shit. Her cooked food tastes good. Now, if you go, but that don't matter, Roland, I think the food don't taste good. And then if I invite Greg over, and Greg like, damn, this is some good food.

And if I invite Anthony, Chelsea, Chris, Atlantis, and Jackie, man, food tastes good. Are we supposed to sit here and give you cretins because you don't like it when nine other people think the food tastes good? Well, I'm sorry. Reese's Gumball just isn't the same as ensuring that America's on good, solid footing. But just because y'all crazy does not mean we have to change laws because y'all are crazy.

Let me add in... Hold on, Greg, one second. CJ, go ahead and finish that point, but I'm still waiting on some proof. Please, I'm still waiting. What you're not making is this legislation, and Democrats should be the biggest cheerleaders for this legislation. Why? Because if you want to blame Donald Trump for what he was able to so-called incite, then he had to have something to point to to lead to this incident. He had nothing. He lost. He incited an insurrection because he lost and he couldn't handle losing.

Okay. Well, obviously he was able to point to something that resonated with people that led to them having such a visceral reaction. Because y'all believe a liar. No, it's not about that. It's about ensuring that America remains a country that has solid and safe elections. Wait, hold up. You keep saying that. Was it not certified by Republican secretaries of state, governors and legislators? It was. So that wasn't safe? Performed because of how insecure they are. Greg, go ahead.

Mike Pence certified the election. Mike Pence certified the Electoral College votes. Right. And was he not the president? Was he not the vice president Mike Pence certified the electoral college votes. Right. Was he not the vice president? He was the vice president. Did he not file the Constitution? That's why he was in hiding for the last three months. Greg, Greg, go ahead. See, this is like the lobotomy that's needed because we got a bunch of crazy Republicans who believe the liar in chief, and they want us to say,

but y'all got to accept our crazy. Greg, go ahead. Well, I don't think the white nationalists have a choice. One of the people who was president at the ALEC confab when they got their heads together to write all this legislation that's now being introduced in these state legislatures was Ken Blackwell. Ken Blackwell, who helped Ohio massage the election when he was Secretary of State of 2004. So that might have been around the same time you were coming onto

the earth, Brother CJ. Ken Blackwell is black. And like a pair of earrings or a bracelet, you know, black folks in the White Nationalist Party are accessories. In other words, it's just kind of like things to kind of bring out the color. And the color in this case is white. In the analogy that you did, Roland, I would say that there's this one element. The people who would say that Reese can't cook would also say that you, me, CJ, any other Black person who would taste that cooking and say it's good shouldn't be allowed to eat. So in other words, they would never even go to sample the food. And so when you hear phrases like election integrity, that is code for taking away local control when they can revert to state control to supersede the local folk.

But they supposedly love local control. They supposedly love small government. Well, they love control, which is why when you look at this bill, the corn-pwned flop-swept leading probably candidate for 2024, Ron DeSantis, who recently went to kiss the ring of Donald Trump in Mar-a-Lago, when you look at that legislation, it was opposed by the 67 county supervisors of elections in the state of Florida. Republicans included. That's exactly right.

But see, the problem here is that this uniform legislation that they plotted in December and now rolling out in Texas is next, is designed to take local control away when the white nationalist party is not winning the election. Finally, when you hear the phrase voter confidence, take out voter and put in white voter confidence, along, as I said, with a few pairs of earrings and bracelets to kind of disguise the fact that this is white voter confidence. This is the foolishness. And CJ, I think maybe, I hope you're a political science major in government. I hope you're going off law school, brother, because when you get there, you might get a chance to read GOP versus the graphing field, which is the case that Clarence Thomas dissented from recently, where he said, yes, the mail-in votes that the white nationalist

party in Pennsylvania want thrown out would not be enough to overturn the Pennsylvania election. However, I have real questions about the integrity of mail-in voting in Pennsylvania. And like you, which is why I say this isn't necessarily about age, Clarence Thomas offered no proof, no facts, and repeated the talking points of Donald Trump, meaning that even the federal judiciary is complicit when white nationalism is the objective, and it can be carried out by black people. Clarence Thomas and UCJ seem like y'all on the same page, and Clarence Thomas, unlike you, has a seat on the Supreme Court.

They're going to break this little settler project, brother, and I, for one, couldn't be happier. I want to bring in Jane Elliott right now. Jane Elliott, of course, we've had her on before. She's an amazing educator. She speaks truth to power. She does not hold back.

I think she's probably more unfiltered than I am. Jane, when you look at what I, Jane, I fundamentally believe what's driving all of this is white fear. Republicans are scared to death of black people. They're scared of Latinos. Hell, they're scared. They're scared of conscious white folks and what they're trying. Go ahead. Wait a minute. You're using all the wrong terms in the first place. See, I was waiting on you to go there. Go ahead. There is no such thing as white people and black people. There are only people who are different shades of brown.

But as long as you use the words white and black, white, the definition of white, is pure and unvarnished. Black is the color of savagery and ignorance. Now, as long as you use those two terms, we're going to be at one another's throats. If you'd ever get around to the point that you could look at me and see that I'm not white, my shirt's white, my hair is white, my skin is not. And I can look at CJ there and I can see that his hair is black and his skin is not. If we could get over the idea of several different races, maybe, maybe melanemic people, which is what we white folks ought to be called, could get used to realizing that we're all. Yeah, this is the whole thing is so ridiculous.

You know, words are the most powerful weapon devised by humankind. I'm sitting here listening to words being used in ways that will separate us indefinitely. As long as you call yourselves white and black, and as long as you call yourselves members of different races, that, by God, is how long this problem is going to last. So you call yourself, you said melanemic, what did you say? Melanemic. Melanemic, okay. If you're anemic, you don't have enough blood, but iron in your blood to keep your healthy. So you're called anemic. So how do you know? So, Jay, so our public policy, how do we confront the melanemic Republicans

who want to prevent the melanated other folk from being able to cast votes, who are able to put in all of these ridiculous measures that they claim is voter integrity, when in fact it is all designed to keep power in their melanemic hands. Number one, you have to stop calling them Republicans because Donald Trump knocked the L out of the word Republican. So what you end up with is a description of what he is most interested in, the area in which he is most interested. You've got to stop talking about Donald Trump.

As long as you talk about him, he maintains his importance. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't mention Donald Trump. That's why I said that's why I. That's why I said the party. Because see, the mistake that Hillary Clinton made in 2016, she tried to separate Trump for the Republican Party. Then Joe Biden is, and I'm like, no, no, no, no. These folks, you could take Trump out of this. They still are pursuing policies that are going to impact me in a negative way. They aren't the ones you have to worry about. You have to worry about the evangelicals who are supporting Trump.

Right. You read the book Unholy, read the book Unholy, and then you'll know where the problem is and you'll know what you have to do about it. I am more frightened by what the evangelicals are doing to this country than by what one man and the Republican Party can do to it. The evangelicals have now invaded every facet of our lives in a really disgusting way. And you need to realize that Trump is not the problem.

Evangelicals are the problem. And I'd like to have that young man, CJ is your name? I'd like to have you come to my guest house in Iowa for about three days, and I will help you to restore yourself to sanity. Well, you know, nothing brings me more joy than being lectured by white liberals about how I should approach the issue of race in America. Just a damn minute. Just a damn minute. I just got done telling you, I'm not white and you're not black. I'm a member of the same race that you are. You and I are 30th to 50th cousins. Now you may not want me for your cousin, but that's the way it is. Stop dealing with a lie and start dealing with the facts. Let's deal with reality here. Let's deal with reality here. And the reality is that I don't have to listen to some young man who has already let me know that the color of my skin makes me unable to discuss race.

Now, don't tell me that I can't because I was dealing with racism long before you were born. 53 years I've been listening to people say ugly things about people who look like you and blaming those statements on people who look like me. We make a decision as to whether we are going to trust another person based on our judgment of the color of their skin. You cannot judge me by the color of my skin and I'm not judging you by the color of your skin. I'm judging the remarks that you're making cannot judge me by the color of my skin and i'm not judging you by the color of your skin i'm

judging the remarks that you're making that indicate to me that you aren't thinking very well that you are following the lies of a man who has he has absolutely violated every constitution every part of the constitution and every one of the ten commandments and you are following him and And you are following him, and you're going to go off that ledge just like a whole bunch of other really good Christian people are. And you're going to wonder how that happened. Look, you're old enough to grow up now and change that and start thinking for yourself instead of being led by a man who will use you as long as he can, And then when he no longer needs you, he will

drop you like a hot potato. You need to realize that you are not someone he admires or wants around him. As he said in his first news concerts, I've got my black. And he pointed at the one black person in his entourage on television. Now, I remember that. You don't remember that because you're too young to have watched it at that time. You need to open your eyes, open your ears, and shut your mouth. Okay, so here's the deal.

So, CJ, CJ, you cannot... CJ, go ahead. You cannot respond to Jane. We'll let you respond. Go ahead. Well, I appreciate that dressing down my melaninic sister, but I've got to tell you,

you know, this is the type of self-righteousness that has turned so many Black people away from the Democrat Party. You think that you can lecture me about how person my experience as a black man in America or discredit my blackness based on my politics and my ideals and my principles. You won't do that. And so you can tell me to shut my mouth. You know, that's crazy. That's the thing that really grinds my gears about people just like you, white liberals who think they can tell people on the right because we're black that they can tell people on the right, because we're black,

that they can tell us to shut up and sit down because we espouse beliefs that are different than their own. That is racism. But here's the deal, though. I've asked you to see what's the take. Wait, wait, wait. He isn't talking like a black man. He is talking like a white man.

He is doing the same things that Mr. Trump has been doing for the last 30 years. You are doing the same things that Mr. Trump has been doing for the last 30 years. You are doing the same thing that Donald Trump has been doing, and you are regurgitating what Donald Trump has put into your head. You need to stop that and start thinking for yourself. What is with you and these commands? Like, do you think you get to tell Black people what to do?

Like, is that just how you operate your daily life, instructing Black people how to think, how to act, what they can and cannot say? Because I support a president, President Trump, that brought about the lowest Black unemployment rate in our nation's history. Primal justice reform, the First Step Act, millions of dollars navigated through HBCUs, economic opportunities navigated, commercial investment to inner cities that were long neglected. And I understand you probably are eager to tell me to shut my mouth right now because you hate it when black conservatives even utter a single word. But I'm going to keep talking because these are facts.

These are truths. Actually, actually, I'm going to step in right here. I'm going to step in right here because actually, CJ, what you just spouted were not actual facts. That's first. Okay. Excuse me, CJ. CJ, sorry.

Everything that you just stated, we've covered on this show. Dr. Walter Kimbrough, who is an HBCU president, Dillard University, has debunked the nonsense that you just stated about HBCU. That's first.

He's an actual HBCU president for 16 years. Two, what you have to understand, the woman who actually sponsored the very bill that you are giving Trump credit for, her name is Congresswoman Alma Adams, a graduate of North Carolina A&T. We've had her on this show.

So all is taught what Trump did, that's grossly incorrect. Two, you talked about criminal justice reform. Let me remind you, Donald Trump did not pass criminal justice reform. If it were not for Democrats who controlled the House, there would be no bill that went over to the Senate. It was Congressman Hakeem Jeffries and others who advanced it in the House. Let me also remind you that your party blocked President Barack Obama from passing a criminal justice reform act when he was president because they did not want it to include real criminal

justice reform. Now, you're sitting there with your huge Alabama flag over your shoulder. And let me remind you, it was former Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, who was the attorney general who also opposed that very criminal justice reform bill, who stopped it when he was representing that state in the United States Senate. So you can sit here and throw and you can keep yelling facts. But what you're not going to do is lie because on Fox News, they might let you get away with it. Not here. Let me go back to Jane. Jane, we've witnessed in the past week, Jane, we've witnessed Senator Tim Scott come out and talked about America, not racist America.

Democrats fall right into the trap. Folks start going back and forth on this whole very issue here. And what is interesting to me is are the folks who want to get caught up racist, not racist, not racist, racist, as opposed to what are the effects the policies are having on actual people? Number one, the effects on people who look like me are to cause them tremendous fear because they know that within 30 years, and now it's about down to 20 years, we melanemic people will be a numerical minority

in the United States of America. That's the way it is. And incidentally, this is not America. America is everything from the northernmost point of Canada to the southernmost point of South America. And we, in our arrogance, call it America, as if the 48 contiguous states, Alaska, Hawaii, and the islands off the southeastern coast of the United States are all that constitutes America. We've got to change our vocabulary. I'm an educator. Educators are engaged in the business of leading people out of ignorance. And I've been sitting here for the last about 30 minutes listening to total ignorance coming out of the mind of a person who's young enough to be taught better and he needs to be re-educated and the rest and the poor the the proud boys the oath keepers that whole group of mostly white

fairly young men of course for me everybody's young but most of them are old enough to know better, but too damn young to care. And you cannot solve things by saying to people, my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts. That's exactly what this young gentleman is doing, and that's exactly what most of us are doing most of the time in this country right now. We want to pretend that what we have is what we have described. It isn't. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave. I'm one of the free, and that young man has to become brave. He has to be brave, and his mother has to be extremely brave if she's going to live in this country,

which is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people that when people of color get power, they're going to want to treat us the way we have treated them. That is the major problem in the United States right now, is white fear of retribution. I think we could give up that fear. I have watched people go through this exercise, the blue-eyed, brown-eyed exercise, and after it's over, I have heard them say, I had no idea. I will not abuse people. I will not make them feel the way I felt when I was on the bottom. I never knew how it felt to be on the bottom before. Now I've found out how that feels. I will never do something that will make someone feel the way I felt for just an hour and a half. I think we have misjudged the intelligence

and the humanity of a whole lot of people of color, and that's why we're afraid of them. Grant Carr, the last week and a half, we've listened to Fox News and all of these other folks, these conservatives whine about critical race theory. They're running their mouths. Oh, my God, critical race theory. They're running their mouths. Oh, my God, critical race theory is Marxist and it's destroying America.

Yet Nikki Haley's out there. Yet when you ask them to define it, they can't even define it, Greg. They're just spouting a talking point. Well, that's the whole point. The whole point. Professor Elliott has, it's good to be in community with you. And hey, Risi, we definitely missed you, sis.

You know, having followed your work for many years, and certainly the Blue Eye, Brown Eye test, many of us have seen that one of the videotapes of the exercise, I think it was Oprah you were engaged in, and showing at that time. You know, you make a very important point when it comes to language. The power of whiteness in many ways lies in its invisibility. And it was interesting as CJ, as you, you know, kind of were talking, you drug Professor Elliott into whiteness. She made, she used the word white. It's very difficult to, as she would know better than all of us, to jailbreak that language. But as my friend, the philosopher, Lucius Outlaw, down at Vanderbilt often says, I can call that bus coming toward me the wind, but if I step in front of it, the wind will run

me over. In other words, there is the effect that language has in a social reality. So CJ, I feel you, brother, when you say that no white person or no person who has been marked white has the right to say anything to how we try to navigate being black in a society where whiteness or the concept of whiteness is the norm. This is James Baldwin. Now, at the same time, though, brother, I would have to say that you probably more than all of us as a Gen Z-er understand the power of branding. You're a digital native. You haven't been alive at a time when we didn't have cell phones or YouTube or the internet. And so what we're seeing

is the weaponized ignorance. And Professor Elliott, you're fighting against it. Absolutely. In the real tradition, there was a journal out of Boston many years ago called Race Traitor. And you're probably familiar with it and knew it. Their motto was treason to whiteness is loyalty to humanity. In other words, we have to dismantle this hierarchical thinking. But what we're seeing instead, Roland, to the point that you're raising, people be called critical race theorists, know much, if anything, about the origins. Critical race theory comes out of the law, legal studies, law schools, really. And its roots are in something called critical legal studies, which goes back to the late 50s, early 1960s. It's really a dialogue about the nature of how we organize human societies and what are the standards by which we'll live. And that includes the law, that includes ethics and morals, and it really is a critique of

the inflexibility of some of the categories. Over the years, Derrick Bell, very important in this dialogue, the late Derrick Bell and others, began to use that critique of the law and frame it in the context of race and saying, for example, Derrick Bell would say, let's do a thought exercise. What if instead of overturning Plessy v. Ferguson, Brown v. Board of Education had affirmed Plessy v. Ferguson and said, you know what? Separate was never equal, so let's make separate equal. Give them the exact same money you're giving the white schools. Now, that was a thought exercise designed in some ways to do some of the work that Professor Elliott

has been doing, namely jailbreak how we think about hierarchy. That's where critical race theory kind of emerged. It's about narratives, it's about posing different kinds of questions, forcing people to think. That is exactly not what these white nationalists, and I'm using white not because they are white,

we are all Africans if you look at the parents of everybody on the ball, but I'm using white not because they are white. We're all Africans if you look at the parents of everybody on the ball, but I'm using white as the social reality that has real world consequences. Just like if I change the name of the bus to the wind, I'd still step out in front of getting run over. I can call it, melanate it, demelanate it, whatever, but the cop is still

going to say, you're melanated. Hands up. Boom. My point is, I'll still suffer because of the concepts. We have to figure out a way to tune out the distractions. CRT is the new socialism, critical race theory. Left is the new N-word in many ways, because when you say left, what the signal is, I mean, you know, them people who are over there with those black people. When you say platforms are the new soapbox, people are engaging in word war as proxy for real war.

Meanwhile, people who say, I'm voting for Trump because I'm an evangelical, and Trump is a symptom. Let's be very clear. The Republican Party has been the home of white nationalism quite some time. People are now rallying behind Lynne Cheney, when Lynne Cheney's policy record is just like Donald Trump's. But people are saying, well, she's a woman. No, stop being distracted. What you're seeing is these folks are killing themselves to preserve something that isn't real. They are literally picking their imagined whiteness

over their lives. And so rather than try to argue with them, I'm going to leave that to the Jane Elliotts of the world. Go with God, Sister Elliot. Go with God. As an African in this world, I don't care whether the United States survives. What I care about is whether humanity can survive America.

That's a very different kind of prospect as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to go to Jane, then Recy, then to CJ. Jane, one of the things that the work that you do, the work that Tim Wise does, Linda Tirado, the work that you talked about, these evangelicals. And I thought about for a second Brother Hargrove, Jonathan Wilson Hargrove, who was in that world and who's been working with Reverend Dr. William J. Barber. What's very interesting is they talk about how they love Jesus. Yet when you go to their conferences, you never hear anything about the poor.

They'll have tax folks there before they have folks talking about the poor. Then what you then see is you see these attacks then manifest themselves in public policy. And the reality is that really is now the hardcore base of the GOP. That is, and I'll just use it for the purpose of this, these white conservative evangelicals, these melanemic conservative evangelicals. And the deal is they won't even

have discussions with those of us who are, who are melanated evangelicals who love Jesus. My wife is a ordained minister, but they are afraid to sit down with Reverend Dr. Barber. They're afraid to sit down with folks like that because they don't want to have a real conversation about the Bible and Jesus and what Christians really should be doing in this country. They don't even want to see Jesus as he's described in the Bible with kinky, woolly hair and feet of bronze. We white folks, I'm sorry, but that's what we have to call us. We pale faces, one of the major differences between me and you is when pale faces come into a new environment, they immediately adjust the environment to fit their needs. And if it's religion, they do it there too. We want to kneel to somebody who looks like us. That is a mental problem that we have and we need to get

over it. And we won't get over it until we are in the position in which we have placed people in this country for the last 300 years. We have to let people find out how it feels to be on the bottom. And white folks are scared to death. Melanemic people, pale faces, are scared to death that that's what's going to happen to them. I don't think it is. I think that people of darker construction,

malignations people, are more intelligent than that. They know what happens when you set up a system like that and the people who are on the top are doing the, are doing, making it work for them. People say to me it was good enough for my father, it was good enough for me. It wasn't good enough for my father and it wasn't good enough for your father. It wasn't good enough for any of our fathers as long as we were divided on the basis of the amount of a chemical in our skin.

It makes no sense. You can't justify it. It's unjustifiable. Recy, the point Jane just made there, Mitch Landrieu literally made that same point in his book. He said, hey, white people, they're not going to do to us what we did to them. This whole, this whole, I'm telling you, what we're seeing right now...

I called this recent 2009. I was at CNN. I told John Avalon, we're living in the world of white minority resistance. I said, they see the demographics changing, the browning of America, and they can't handle it. Because in their view, this is what it means... when it comes to what America means, the flag, all that sort of stuff.

They have never had to take into account what we think. But also, I listened to CJ, and we talked about he didn't like Jane telling him what he should think. Well, hell, I don't have CJ calling out his fellow black conservatives when they say folk like you on the plantation, when they sit here and use that language condemning African-Americans who reject the Republican Party but who choose to support Democrats. And your question? Well, this conversation is off the chain. Y'all just came back swinging.

Well, you were right, absolutely, because I think black conservatives do like to use that language about being on the plantation and stuff like that. I mean, as black people, we have these intra-Black battles. You know, you got the people that talk about you. If you're Democratic, you having a butter biscuits and all this other kind of stuff. There's enough insults and slurs to go around. But I kind of do feel like it's an in-house conversation in terms of what's Black and who gets to determine what Black is and what you sound like as Black. But I do have much respect for Professor Elliott. I'm appreciating this new language that I'm hearing. Pale faces, melanemic. I'm definitely going to have to incorporate

that into my vocabulary, but in terms of me giving up Black, I'm going to say the melanemic need to go first. When they give up white, then I'll give up Black. Until then, I'm Black and I'm proud. So as Dr. Carr said, go with God. I support you, sister, and your plight, but until

the melanemic pale faces give up white supremacy and all that good stuff, then I'm going to be over here and I'm going to be black and I'm going to be proud to be black. But on another note, though, I do think, though, that the reality is that we don't want revenge.

We just want to be left the hell alone. And, you know, black people ain't sitting up there. We ain't got pitchforks. We ain't the ones marching in the University of Charlottesville talking about blood and soil. That was the pale faces that was doing that. That wasn't us. So we just want to be left the hell alone.

We just want to be... If we get a ticket, can we get a ticket and go? We ain't got to be shot by the police. If we call the police because we in distress, we want to be able to get help instead of get shot. That's what we want. When a black woman like me goes to have a baby, I don't want to have to consider,

am I going to die in childbirth because black women have a black maternal mortality rate that's three to four times more of the pale faces. That's all that I want. And so if the melanemic will understand that instead of trying to hold back on what everybody gets, because they want to make sure that we don't get something, to go on ahead and give a little,

then we can all be greater, then I don't know. But the reality is, yeah, black people, all we want to do is just be left alone. All we want to do is just be great and live our best black-ass lives. That's all we want. May I ask? Jane, then CJ, go ahead.

Yeah. Would it help if we would all simply remember we won't. Jane, then CJ. Go ahead. Would it help if we would all simply remember that Columbus didn't discover America, that it was discovered by Africans between 20,000 and 10,000 years before Columbus was a gleam in his father's eye? Would it help if you realized that you were here first and because of the

melanin in your skin and your ability to live even with the hole in the ozone layer getting larger and more and more sunlight being allowed to enter our environment that you will be here last do you not realize that the reason you are going to be in the majority numerical majority in the future is because you are going to live longer because of what we melanemic people have done to this country and to this world with our behaviors. Do you realize that only 18% of the population of the earth is classified as white? 18%.

We have been in the minority all these years, and we are determined that we are not going to be the numerical minority in the United States of America. To fight that is to fight the inevitable. It is coming. We've got to get melanemic people used to the idea that if they would trace their DNA back far enough, they would find that a part of their DNA, a percentage of their DNA, came from a country in Africa. We are all from the same place, whether we want to admit it or not. CJ, one of the things that's very curious to me, and I remember in 2017,

one of the first things that your party did was repeal anti-discrimination rules in auto loans. And it struck me as interesting that Republicans stood on the floor of the House and they said, oh, we need to just stop this. We're all Americans. But they didn't want to deal with the discrimination.

In fact, this is a previous edition of Roller Martin Unfiltered. Listen, and then I need to get your response. Lay honey vaccine. Henry, go to my iPad. Make sure that we're making America great every day in every way. And the best way to do that is to stop talking about discrimination and start talking about the nation. We're coming together as a people in spite of what you say. Thank you, gentlemen. I yield back.

Gentlemen, time has expired. Members are reminded to address their remarks to the chair. The gentleman from Texas Reserves, gentlelady from California. Thank you very much. The gentleman, Mr. Kelly, please do not leave because I want you to know that I am more offended as an African-American woman than you will ever be. And this business about making America great again, it is your president that's dividing this country.

And don't talk to me about the fact that we don't understand what happens on the – Will the gentlelady yield? No, I will not yield. No, I will not yield. Okay. Don't tell me that we don't understand. That's the attitude that's been given toward women time and time again. The gentlelady will suspend.

The chair wishes to remind all members that they are to address their remarks to the chair. The gentlelady will suspend. The chair wishes to remind all members that they are to address their remarks to the chair. I respect the chair, but don't stop me in the middle when you didn't stop him in the middle. And so I shall continue. Don't you dare talk to me like that and think that somehow women don't understand what goes on on the floor of automobile dealers. Minded to direct her remarks to the chair. The general lady will continue in order. And I am saying that I will continue to do that. However, I don't appreciate that you did not interrupt him

when he was making those outrageous remarks about him knowing more about discrimination than I know about discrimination. I resent that, and I resent the remark about making America great again. He's down here making a speech for this dishonorable president of the United States of America. Having said that, I reserve the balance of my time and no, I do not yield not one second to you. Not one second. Not one second to you. So CJ, what I found to be

interesting is that that literally is one of the first bills they repeal. So, Republicans love talking about what they did and what should happen and how we should all get along, but there's real discrimination when it came to auto loans. January 6th, a lot of people who think like you, people who you stood with were there here in D.C. How many N words black cops were called? I haven't seen white Republicans condemn that. In fact, they have pretty much sided with the insurrectionists versus the cops. Where are you in black Republicans on that? Why are y'all silent? Why did Colin Powell go down in North Carolina and condemn the voter suppression law

to the governor's face there? But you and other black Republicans are silent. In fact, y'all are endorsing the same voter suppression. These aren't voter suppression laws. No, no, no, no, no. Deal with the first thing first. I gave you three things. First, deal with the auto discrimination. Deal with that first. Second, deal with the second thing, then deal with voter third. Deal with the first one first. Yeah, let's do the first thing.

You know, auto discrimination, I think discrimination anywhere is wrong. And I think that at the end of the day, I listened to that speech. The tone was just wrong. I'm not going to endorse that. No, no, no, no, no. That was the speech. Your party literally repealed the rules that Obama put in. Did you and other black Democrats tell your party, y'all should not be repealing discrimination laws?

No, here's the deal. I think at the end of the day, we have to look at where our country is going and we need to move forward past this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You didn't answer my question. When they were voting to repeal these anti-discrimination laws against black folks when it came to auto loans, did you and other black Republicans say a word to your own party to say this is not right. You should not be repealing anti-discrimination laws. You know, I'll be honest, I'll be upfront. I wasn't familiar with the issue at the time, but I think in the grand scheme of things, you look at discrimination, just condemn that. And I also believe though, that to the point that the Congressman was making,

that we do have to move forward. But CJ, how do we move forward if we don't confront discrimination? We can talk about that. You know, Morgan Freeman, I think. No, no, no, no. I don't want to talk about it. I want to outlaw it. I want to get rid of it. But when you Republicans led that, they literally led the effort to get rid of the laws. How does that make us great again? I don't think that legislation was about making America great again. I think it was about the idea that we need to move past this entire consummation with racist infatuation. You know, the point I was making about Morgan.

Is it possible for us to move past being discriminated against? See, here's the deal. We black people, we would love to move past it. But here's the other deal. Colin Powell, black Republican, he went to North Carolina and condemned the voter suppression law there. Your party in North Carolina passed a law where they targeted black voters. The court said it was laser-like precision. It was overturned.

Did you and other black Republicans condemn that North Carolina law and stand with Colin Powell? If you didn't, why not? You know, I got to say, I have a lot of faith in black people, you know, and I believe that it's not a hurdle for black people to go get a voter. No, no, no, no. You did not answer my question. Fellow black Republican four star general Colin Powell, former secretary of state, former former national security adviser stood before and condemned it. It was later discovered, CJ, that Republicans asked specifically when were black people voting early in North Carolina? Seventy percent voted during the first week. Your party changed the law in order to limit early voting. And then the federal courts later rule they had the document. They put it in email where they did

it. When what I'm asking is why were you and other black Republicans silent with the targeting of black voters by your party. And you're also asking why I didn't endorse the idea as being propagated by a four-star general. Sure, Colin Powell, much respect to him for his service to our country, who's endorsed President Barack Obama, also endorsed President Joe Biden. No, no, no, can you answer my question?

You want to call him a Republican for the purpose of this debate, but he really isn't that. No, no, no, no, no, he is Republican. First of all, I'm sorry, you told Jane, don't tell you what to say. Now you want to now strip Colin Powell of being a Republican. In fact, Colin Powell was a Republican before you were even born. I don't even think I would describe himself as a Republican. If you want to look it up. No, no, actually, actually he did. Have you actually talked to

Colin Powell before? So he left the Republic. Have you talked to Colin Powell before? So you're acknowledging. Have actually talked to Colin Powell before? So he left the Republican Party? Have you talked to Colin Powell before? So you're acknowledging... Have you talked to Colin Powell before? That's not the point. No, CJ, this answers the question. Have you ever talked to Colin Powell before? Once you acknowledge that I'm running... CJ, yes or no?

Yes or no? Again. Yes or no? Have you talked to Colin Powell before? He is no longer Republican. Have you talked to Colin Powell before? Yes or no longer Republican. Have you talked to Colin Powell before? Yes or no? It was about this election. OK, so I see. See, see, see, see, see right now.

See, this is the whole deal. If you're unwilling to even answer the question, you are purposely evading it because, you know, the answer makes you look bad. And the fact that you can't even... CJ, the federal court ruled there was laser-like targeting of black people. Does that not offend you? What is the deal? Let's look at the facts. No, no. Yes or no. Does it offend you, yes or no, when Republicans in North Carolina targeted black voters specifically, does that offend you? Well, there's no indication of that. No, no, no. It was right there. See, let me go to Jane. See, I can't even see Jane. This is the thing that bothers me. The reason, Jane, you were critical of CJ earlier is exactly right there. We literally have evidence of the federal, a federal court.

CJ, Republican appointees said there was laser like targeting of black people. And you as a 1918, 19, 20 year old black Republican, you can't even utter. You know what? My party was wrong. You can't even say, damn, my party was wrong. They shouldn't have done that. You are defending it. You are excusing it. You are trying to deflect. You can't even say, damn, that was wrong. Do you know how easy that is? Because I don't agree with you, Roland. Oh, so you agree with what Republicans did in North Carolina? I agree with legislation that advances the idea that our elections should be safe and secure.

There we go right there. See? See, that's that talking point stuff. That's talking point stuff. See, Jane? See, Jane? Let me give you a fact. Let me give you some facts here, Jane.

The North Carolina Supreme Court ruled. See, Jane? The North Carolina Supreme Court ruled, Jane, that there was racial gerrymandering in North Carolina Supreme Court ruled, CJ, the North Carolina Supreme Court ruled, Jane, that there was racial gerrymandering in North Carolina. The federal courts ruled that there was laser-like targeting of black voters. And your criticism earlier, CJ, Jane, I think is on point. When he can't even acknowledge when his own party is wrong in the targeting of black voters. I'm not asking him to renounce being a Republican.

I'm not asking him to condemn the entire party. I'm saying, damn, can you at least say like Colin Powell did, that is wrong. But the fact that he can't even do that is because they are unwilling to stop the grifting game of appealing to white Republicans. And here's the deal, Jane, I know folk like Bob Brown, who's 80-something years old, was a lieutenant for Dr. King, who was the top black person under Nixon. That man been a black Republican twice as long as C.J. Ben-Borne. And that man has the guts to call out his party.

Senator Edward Brooke, the first African-American United States senator since Reconstruction, had the guts to call out his party when they were wrong. I'm just saying, can I get some black Republicans with some guts today who are willing to say, damn it, that ain't right. Jane, go ahead and weigh in, please.

Well, it isn't only black Republicans who won't say that. It's pale-faced Republicans who won't say it, too. You have to realize this is not a problem that is caused by people who are melanaceous. It's a problem that's caused by these melanemic people who have had power for a long time, have used it badly, and do not want to be in the position of being powerless. And they will do whatever they have to do to see to it that they maintain their power. If you read the book, The System, and you realize that the boys who are on the business roundtable are running this whole thing and telling Mr. Trump, whose name I hate to say,

but they are telling him what to do, and he's doing exactly what they tell him to. And that's the reason they're in good shape and the rest of us are suffering. We're discussing a problem that need never have been in this country. It didn't have to start, but it did, because people in the South wanted to make money, and they couldn't enslave the natives because they couldn't tell the natives apart, so they bought people from the slave traders in Hull, England, and brought them to this country. If that hadn't started, none of this would have started,

but none of that would have started if it hadn't been for religion. And right now, we are using religion to run this country again. You need to realize that that is more dangerous than racism. Make no mistake about this. I'm going to give you one more chance, CJ. I'm going to read for you something,

and maybe you'll agree with this. And this is, go to my computer. The Supreme Court, this is May 15, 2017. The Supreme Court on Monday refused to revive a restrictive North Carolina voting law that a federal appeals court had struck down as an unconstitutional effort to, quote, target African-Americans with almost surgical precision, unquote. That was a bill passed by the North Carolina Republicans. It was signed by North by Republican governor of North Carolina. Will you, CJ, admit that it is wrong for Republicans to pass voting bills

that target African Americans, quote, with almost surgical precision? Yes or no? I think any legislation that is intentionally racial discriminatory is wrong. This wasn't. At the end of the day, we're looking at- Hold up. You said this wasn't? We're looking at things like voter ID and early voting day. I'm done. So a conservative Supreme Court affirmed the decision of a conservative appeals court, and your deal is, sure, go ahead and let them keep doing it. What I'm saying is that I think you'd love to loop this legislation in with what's happening in Georgia and Florida,

but that's just not going to happen. Yes, because it's all tied together. It's all tied together. It's not securing our elections. This isn't about telling black people, don't go vote. Roland, do you think there's so little of our people that we can't secure a voter ID, that we can't go to the poll? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold up, hold up, hold up.

Okay, so explain to me then why y'all are getting rid of almost three-quarters of all ballot drop boxes. Those were secure. That wasn't a thing before COVID. No, no, no, those were secure. But they literally were not a thing in commonplace before COVID. So why do we still need? Actually, hold up. In Georgia, they were put into place by the Republican legislature, semi-Republican governor, but now they're bad. I'm saying that before COVID, they were not mainstream. They were not commonplace.

Are we still in COVID? Well, we have a vaccine now. Are we still in COVID? I'm outside. Are we still in COVID? We have a vaccine now. Are we still in COVID? I'm outside this summer. Are we still in COVID? We have a vaccine. Are we still in a COVID epidemic, yes or no? Go get your shot, Roland.

Like I say, see, this is the game right here. This is the game. This is the game, Greg. This is the game that black conservatives like CJ play. And because they don't, they know the truth. I don't think people get vaccinated, truth. They know the truth, Greg. They know the truth, but again, it's a part of the grift game.

If you want to keep the grifting dollars coming through, because you got, let me be real clear, white conservatives love nothing more than somebody black who speaks their language and who use plantation language because they get to say stuff to the white folks can't say. And that's their cover. And if you can't if you are black Republican and you can't even admit when a conservative Supreme Court agreed that it was targeting a black voters, then ain't no hope for you.

Greg, I'm gonna go to Greg. Then'm going to go back to Jane. Go ahead. Well, the difficulty and this is in the case that was filed today with the NAACP is one of the partners. This one, they are accusing the Florida legislature and the governor who acted so fast, by the way, that they may have a bigger impact than all those old white people and military folks in Florida. They accuse them of violating under the Voting Rights Act, of acting under color of state law. So, CJ, you're right, brother. I mean, when you say there is intent as it has been expressed, and then there is intent

as it has the impact, it can have the impact of being discriminatory. And that's the category where you start talking about decisions that are entirely in the hands of how the judges read the law. That's why stuffing the courts was so important. But, you know, when you say that these things are not related, and you may or may not have heard about 45 minutes ago when I talked about the American Legislative Executive Council and the fact that they met the process working group in December of 2020, these things are not only related, they are coming out of the same draft legislative playbook. And those who have tried to suppress the vote, including Hans von Spakowski, who we saw as one of the main villains in North Carolina, were present at this meeting. So, you know, but I'm willing to give our young brother a little bit of room to grow and learn.

He's in Tuscaloosa. My mom's from Alabama. I consider myself an Alabaman as well, in many ways, in addition to being a Tennessean and an adopted Philadelphian. But I will ask you this, brother, and maybe I'm glad we're having this conversation, because you're not going to see this anywhere else. Certainly wouldn't see it on Fox. I'm glad you don't have Tucker Carlson here because at that point I might put my life in danger by coming to join you in the studio and we might have a different

kind of conversation. Now, you know Tucker's scared to death of me, but go ahead. Well, of course. Well, he's scared to death of anything. I mean, you would have to be a man to actually lose some fear, or a woman, but either way, Tucker Carlson, you know, CJ, it's cool, brother. You're 18. Tucker Carlson has no excuse,

because he's damn near three times your age, still acting as if he's an adolescent. But in your case, brother, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. I don't know how much time we have in this conversation. No, go ahead. You're down in Tuscaloosa. Have you heard of Theta Nu Epsilon, the group that they call the machine down there on the campus of the University of Alabama?

I'm not familiar with that organization. OK. Well, I'm assuming given your talent, you clearly have talent that you may decide to run for. No, seriously. I mean, you may decide to run for campus office. You know, I myself was a student body president. Of course, I went to HBCU, Tennessee State. You plan on running for something while you're down there, brother? I'm currently a senator in SGA, yeah. Very good. So you're a senator who has never heard of the machine.

Okay, okay. I just want to be clear because I'm just saying while you're in Tuscaloosa, I encourage you to be careful. You know, the first black student body president in 1976, Cleo Thomas, when he won, they burned a cross on the campus of the University of Alabama. In fact, they burned a cross in 1986 when I was an undergrad in front of the AKA House. And in fact, as recently as 2018, AL.com did a series of articles called Greek Gods, where

they talked about how this confab of white fraternities and sororities on the campus there in Tuscaloosa, the University of Alabama, have worked against any type of racial progress on that campus for years. Now, you don't play football. You don't play basketball. You're not a revenue-generating Black on the campus of the University of Alabama. I hope as you're navigating that space in Tuscaloosa, you pay very close attention to how race operates, not in the abstract, but on that campus where you are, brother. And I wish you to continue to learn and grow because I think you want what I want, what we all want, which is for all of us to be able to be human in the world without anybody oppressing us. And I'm telling you right now,

you're in a very dangerous place and a dangerous campus. Look up the machine, brother. Unless, of course, you are already aware of them and don't want to see it on camera. What I'll say to that point is our immediate past president was a black man. He was an alpha, actually. That's right. Jared Hunter. He was the first African-American student to win

the position with the support of the machine. So maybe I've already talked. Well, Jared was far before my time, but I'm talking about our most recent SGA president, who was an alpha. He was our SGA president. And also, too, our SGA actually sponsored

an event. I haven't met DeMarcus yet, but I will say also Ask DeMarcus about the machine, brother. I don't know what that is, but I will say the SGA did sponsor an event with Jane Elliott. You know, for any argument to be made that there is a stigma around racial progress or an attempt at it, they literally brought on a racial educator to our campus to give a talk.

And so SGA did that. Did it help? Yeah, that's the question. Hey, Jane, how was that talk, Jane? How was that? How was what? I wasn't understanding what he was he said that uh the stupid he said the student government association in alabama invited you there as a speaker i have no idea what he's talking about didn't hear it can't understand it the the sound is really really bad so he said

that you spoke at the university of alabama uh i've spoken at all of them. I'm sure I've been there. I'm sure I've been threatened with death there. I'm sure I've been taken out of town at midnight because five Carlos had three Carlos of blacks had to get me out of town, out of Uniontown, Pennsylvania. And there I talked to teachers and they called the superintendent, said, if you don't get that bitch out of town, we're going to shoot her. So three carloads of blacks escorted me out of Uniontown, Pennsylvania. Have I had some experiences that you may not have had? What I haven't had is the experiences that your mother has every day. Every day she has to think about what is going to happen to you on the streets in the United States of America, where people are wearing red caps that say, make America great again, but mean make America hate again.

That's what the last four years have been about, how to continue to keep people at one another's throats, how to divide and conquer. You need to read the book, When at the mob is swayed and find out that the last four years have been Hitlerian. And those of us who are my age recognized it immediately and recognized that what was going on was divide and conquer. And it was exactly like what Hitler did. You need to educate yourself, my friend. I know you've been well-schooled. You haven't been well-educated. Get the book, The Color of Law, and realize, I'm sorry, I would hate to offend you all, but you've been well schooled, but they've done studies in this country that prove that the longer you stay in school, the more bigoted you become, because the longer you are reinforced

in the crap that you learned in social studies, grades K through 12. That is not social studies that we teach in the schools in this country. It's anti-social studies, and you better get that into your head, and you better start doing it now. When you walk out on the street, you make good sense. You think on this program, but you're in danger when you walk out on the streets because people who see you saying these things, some of them are going to hate you for them.

And some of them are going to say, well, he's right, but he's black. Let's take him on. You are in danger, my friend, because of people who look like me. My son has been beaten and spit on and has had all kinds of stuff. And I finally had to move out of the community because one of the superintendents said, better get your kids out of this school. Why? Because the teachers are trying to destroy them. I've been through things that you'll never go through. However, I will never go through what you have to go through every day. And the worst part of what you're doing right here is protecting the oppressor. You are saying the oppressor is right. As long as there are people who are willing to protect the oppressor, that's how long the oppression will go on. And no matter what name

you give it, it is unfair, it is indecent, and you need to realize that you're being used. You are being used by a man who will use anyone for his to advance his monetary happiness. And that's what it's all about. He will use you. The people who are following him are using you and you are being used right now. Now, you can you can say that I'm an old white woman saying these things. I don't know what I'm talking about, my friend. I was I suppose. what are you, 20 years old? I was 60 years old when you were born. I know more than you know. I have read more books

about the situation that's in this country. Racism is a major item in this country. It impacts every area of our lives. And if you are willing to go along to get along, eventually the people that you are supporting now will drop you. They will drop you so hard and so fast and then you will have nobody to turn to. You need to build a group of people who will understand you and truly accept you,

not just who will use you because you are willing to be used. CJ, go ahead. With all due respect, you say I'm protecting the oppressor. Maybe the reality of it is, is just I'm refusing to be oppressed. You know, I don't wake up every single morning seeing racism in every interaction that I have or racial bias in every interaction I have. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, Jay. CJ, go ahead. Jay, you can respond. CJ, go ahead. I believe that my future is of my own creation. I believe that opportunity is something that I can get as long as I work hard and play by the

rules. That's something that I've created for myself. You know, I don't come from the greatest means. I don't come from some rich suburban family. I was born to a single mother who was a high school grad who had me in her senior year of high school. For me to be the first in my family to go to college and to achieve what I have, that's a big deal. And that's not something that's going to be robbed away from me

because of any faux racism argument that you're making here. I'm not protecting anyone. I'm simply saying that no one, no big phony white supremacy or whatever any of that is, is going to stop me from achieving what I want to achieve. So, CJ, you believe that white supremacy in America is phony?

No, I believe that this idea that everything and anything is- No, no, no, no, no. I didn't know. We didn't say everything. I'm asking you a question. Do you believe that white supremacy in America is real? I answered the question. I said there are issues with racism still in America today.

Did you have any issue with the Proud Boys, the role they played in the January 6th insurrection where you also spoke here in D.C.? With the Proud Boys, I think they're literally minorities who are members of the Proud Boys. No, no, no. You didn't answer my question.

The Proud Boys is a white supremacist organization. They were, they were, the FBI has arrested numerous members because of their involvement and the Oath Keepers as well. So what I'm asking you, do you, they, they are individuals who have made it clear they want a race war.

So do you condemn that or are you cool with the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys and their involvement with Republicans, Donald Trump and the party on January 6th and even before that? The reality of it is that at the end of the day, I

condemn all acts of violence. No, no, no. No, no, no. That's that general I condemn all acts of violence. No, no. I'm no, no, no, no, no, no. I am not. See, that's that general I condemn all acts of violence. No, no. I'm asking you a specific question about specific individuals who led the insurrection on January 6th in Washington, D.C., an event where you also spoke. Am I correct?

Were you not a speaker January 6th? I wasn't a speaker. You was? Yeah. Okay. 6th? I wasn't speaker. You was? Yeah. Okay, so what do you make of Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and their racism and their

involvement in leading an insurrection that attacked Capitol Police officers where they tried to actually harm members of Congress? You know, at the end of the day, from what I saw and from my reactions with, you know, those organizations, and I'm not all too familiar with everything they've ever said,

so I'm not going to sit here and defend anything they've ever done or anything they've ever said, because I'm not in a position to do that. But what I will say is that I know leaders within those organizations who literally have black lives, who have black children. Okay, hold on. Let me tell you something. Hold on, let me tell you something. Thomas Jefferson was raping a black woman who had kids. Come on, Fred. That don't mean nothing. Man, let me explain. Do you understand?

I've known some white racists. I've known some white racists who had black women as side pieces. That don't mean a damn thing. So just because somebody's a black, what I'm still asking you, these were individuals who were part of an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Do you not say

that's not the kind of folks we should be involved with in this country? Those are the kind of folks that should be condemned and put in jail? Well, I think I answered your question the first time you asked. Okay, I got it. See, Jane, CJ is actually doing exactly what you said. When you're making excuses, he won't even answer the question because he's afraid to publicly be real and he wants to make excuses for them.

And he doesn't understand the significance of the noose that they hung while they were doing that, committing that insurrection. They hung a noose there. It wasn't for those Congresswins. It was to tell the people of color in this country, here's what's coming for you in the morning. Make no mistake about that. That was not an accident that they hung a noose.

Recy, I got to pull you in here, because, Recy, here's what's interesting. I'm going to go toss it to you, Recy. I'm going to come back to CJ. Donald Trump specifically and the Republican Party specifically called out voters in Detroit. That means black people. Voters in Milwaukee.

That means black people. Voters in Philadelphia. That means black people. Voters in Atlanta. That means black people. You've got Congresswoman Stefanik, who specifically went on television and said there were 40,000 fraudulent votes in Fulton County. That means Atlanta. The Secretary of State called her a liar.

They now want to replace Liz Cheney with Stefanik. What's interesting to me is how all of these black Republicans like CJ stood out there, talking about stop the steal, when they were specifically saying it was black voters who stole this election.

Well, you know, some of the best foot soldiers of white supremacy are black people. And at the end of the day, though, what I will say is everybody gets their N-word wake-up call. That's black people, that's Asian people, that's Latino people. Everybody gets it except for white people. And to be honest, poor white people get it too

when they're getting their leg chopped off because their rural farms or their rural hospitals have been shut down and they got diabetes. That's their N-word wake-up call, okay? And so you don't have to choose to be oppressed, DJ. And I applaud you. I think you're doing well, you know, given the fact that you have an

agenda for why you're on this show. And I think you're definitely handling that agenda. But deep down inside, you have to know that N-word wake-up call is coming to you one day. You in Alabama. It's gonna come to you. And you better be prepared. You can gaslight on here if you want to, but I hope you're really prepared deep down inside for that wake-up call. I'm not wishing ill on you.

Don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying it's an inevitable fact of being melanated. If we're using the good Jane Elliott's language, it's an inevitable reality that we all face, whether we want to or not. It's not even just a socioeconomic thing. It's not a pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps thing. It's not a pull yourself up by your bootstraps thing. It's a reality because you're not making the choice. Other people are making the choice in how they interact with you. And so you control how other people choose to interact

with you. You don't have the power that you think you have. Now, we have the power to control our reactions, but you don't have the power to necessarily control how people react to you. But anyway, as far as the Stephanie and this Liz Cheney thing, what is so amazing right now is that it's no longer a dog whistle. It's a bullhorn.

And what is giving people more power is being completely divorced from reality. The election has changed the point to where we don't just have disinformation that is running the Republican Party. We have delusion that's running it. They have completely bought in to the fact that, hey, we have 70 percent of these Republicans by the balls. They're willing to believe whatever the hell it is that we tell them. So let's go all in. Let's keep going with these delusional, completely fabricated claims, because then we get them to buy in on whatever that we're doing and to not notice the fact that,

hey, more people, as CJ noted, we do have a vaccine. Yes, 150-something million Americans are vaccinated, that people are getting jobs, that people are getting healthcare, that there are all these perks that they are getting as a result of the Biden-Harris administration, in which 100% of Republicans voted against,

as long as they can keep them distracted from that part, and they can say voter fraud and the Blacks and the Georgians and the Blacks and this place and the Blacks and that place, then they're going to win. Unfortunately, the Republican Party in 2021 has

not learned that you have to come with the rest of the country in terms of putting forth some policy solutions. The Republican Party used to have a brand of actually being about being for business and being for, you know, small government. Now their brand is all lies and delusion and racism. If they could actually put forth some sort of solutions, then maybe they could be more competitive. But the way that they choose to be competitive is to suppress the vote, is to go all in on racism,

and go all in in an alternate reality. And we're going to see how far that gets them. Unfortunately, it can get them pretty far in the short term, but in the long term, we'll see how far it gets them and how much damage they do in the process. So, CJ, did it bother you at all when Donald Trump and Republicans were specifically targeting voters in Detroit, Philadelphia, CJ, did it bother you at all when Donald Trump and Republicans were specifically

targeting voters in Detroit, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, and Atlanta? Who were they talking about in those four cities? It doesn't bother me, Roland, because I'm not, I don't see race in every comment that's made. So why did they pick those four cities? What's unique about those four cities? Each of those elections in those cities were administered by Democrats. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's four specific cities. They didn't say Charlotte. They didn't say Mecklenburg County.

They didn't say Houston. They didn't say, they said four specific cities. They didn't say Lansing. They didn't say they said four specific cities. They didn't say Lansing. They didn't say Pontiac. They said they didn't say Racine. They said Milwaukee. They didn't say Scranton. They said Philadelphia.

They didn't say Augusta. They said Atlanta. So why specifically did they say those four cities? Roland, you can ask me that question four more times. The answer will be the same. So you don't think it was because those four cities had significant numbers of black voters? No, because I refuse to live in this ideal world that you live in where everything is racist and everything. So so why didn't they pick a majority white city where there were Democratic voters? Because if your argument is they were Democrat. No, no, no. But they were real specific.

In fact, Donald Trump had a partial recount in Wisconsin and it was of Milwaukee. So in your clear vision, in your free-thinking vision, you can't make the connection Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Detroit? I think those are all urban centers with huge populations. So when the Republicans in Michigan said, let's certify all votes in Michigan except Detroit, what did they mean? They mean let's look at the city with the largest population in the state where the most votes are going to be found, and let's make sure those votes are right.

That's what they meant. Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Bro, guys, can I ask our young brother a question? Yes, Greg, go ahead. I'm going to go Greg, then Jane.

Go ahead. I'm sorry. Just very quickly. Brother CJ, do you think that in this country people should have access to a kind of basic level of quality and affordable healthcare? You know, I think we do need to do that. I think the way that we do that is different than the way some people on the left have suggested

through a single-payer system. I think that the way we do that is by allowing people to buy healthcare across state lines, letting the free market work, driving down the cost of healthcare so that it's more accessible. It's a damn shame that in this country we have an infant mortality rate higher than some developing countries because of the lack of accessibility to health care that we have

in this nation. Republicans have dropped the ball on that issue. Democrats talk about health care all day long. They have these plans. Even though they're bad plans, I don't endorse those plans. I don't like those plans. At least they have a plan for it. Republicans spent years talking about repealing Obamacare, but never came up with a solution

to it. And so people were like, why don't Republicans care about health care? It's because we haven't talked about enough and we haven't presented a plan to do it. So yeah, I agree with you. We definitely need to- I appreciate that, brother. So we're on a one-quarter that now. Yeah, we might debate and disagree on how to get access, but let's get very specific

and tune this in. In the recent package that was passed by the federal government with the unified Republican lack of support in the state where you're now going to school, Alabama, Medicaid expansion would put 300,000 more Alabamans on the roll to get access to health care. It would also bring $900 million to Alabama. And this is taxpayer money. We all pay taxes in one form or another. $900 million, almost a billion dollars to Alabama, because the federal government will pick up 90 percent of the cost.

The governor of Alabama, a Republican, Kay Ivey, has said that she's willing to consider it. And many of those folks, if not most of the folks who will receive access to the kind of health care that we both agree people should have in this country, will be white. What's your thoughts on that? Should Alabama go for Medicaid expansion? Currently, it's one of 12 states that will not accept Medicaid expansion, all of them controlled by Republicans. But what do you think about that in Alabama?

I'll be real with you. I'm a big fiscal conservative. I think that every solution should be looked at. At the end of the day, we have to look at to what type of nation our next generation is going to inherit. We can't keep spending and spending and spending and expecting no one to foot the bill because it's going to be my generation that has to do that. You know, I want to solve this issue. I want to ensure that everyone who wants health care has access to it in a way that doesn't expose the side of government and doesn't lead to a ballooning deficit. I don't know Medicaid expansion is the way that we accomplish that.

But I do believe that it's going to take both sides of the aisle coming together to really address this health care issue that we have in this country. But before I go to Jane, CJ, did you express any opposition to the federal deficits when it blew up under Donald Trump? Yeah, I've always been a fiscal conservative, and I think that I've been pretty consistent in that. No, no, no, no. That's not what I asked you. Did you express, when you were out there touting Donald Trump, saying four more years, did you at any point say

Donald Trump's exploding of the federal deficit in the last four years and all the Republicans who voted for those bills that exploded the deficit, they were wrong? Did you at any point say that? I think there were Republicans that voted against some of those bills. No, no, no, no.

Are you serious? Wait a minute. You say you're a fiscal conservative, right? I am. You were not aware of the exploding deficit with the bills passed by Trump and Republicans? It's not about lack of awareness. As I said, I'm always in a fiscal conservative and maintain that. No, no, no. But did you ever say Republicans and Donald Trump, y'all are wrong for this exploding deficit? My commitment to ensuring that America is a fiscal conservative nation has been steadfast. No, no, no, no, no.

But you answer my question. It's very simple. I'm asking you a question. When you were out there championing Donald Trump, when you were at the Stop the Steal rallies, when you were there on January 6th, did you at any point say, by the way, y'all, I'm a fiscal conservative, Donald Trump, y'all have exploded the debt. Y'all are making it harder for my generation. Y'all need to rein in spending. Did you ever say that?

Well, as I said, I've been a fiscal conservative. I maintain that. When Bernie Sanders was talking about expanding health care in a way that was going to cost $1 trillion. I specifically asked you, did you ever criticize current Republicans and Donald Trump for exploding the deficit in the last four years. It's either a yes or a no, CJ. Oh, that's an absolute yes. When these omnibus bills came through Congress, I opposed them. I thought they were stupid.

I think you attach all these riders, all these crazy legislation to one big bill that's a must pass. It's bad for our country. But you wanted four more years of Trump, right? Well, four more years of a president who was going to bring about economic opportunity, ballooning job growth, record numbers on the stock market. So that's interesting. country. But you wanted four more years of Trump, right? Well, four more years of a president who was going to bring about economic opportunity, ballooning job growth, record numbers on the

stock market. So that's interesting. That's interesting. So you like the ballooning stock market, but you did not criticize him on the ballooning deficit. Well, as I said three times now, I've always been a steadfast opponent of anything that balloons our national debt. But you supported the guy who was ballooning the debt. For all four years, they created jobs, a record number of jobs. We had more jobs in this country than there were people to fill them, Roland. Got it. That's the administration.

Got it. God bless them. Got it. I just find it to be curious. I'm going to Jane. I want to show this, Jane. Rainn, you started what you're doing, Jane, the day after Dr. King was

assassinated on April 4th, 1968. That's what you told me in the previous interview. We talked about voting and things along those lines. Jane, I've got to get your thoughts on the junior senator from Alabama

when he was asked, when he was running against Senator Doug Jones, about the Voting Rights Act. Go to my computer, please. The thing about the Voting Rights Act is, you know, there's a lot of different things you can look at it as. You know, who's going to help? You know, what direction do we need to go with it? I think it's important that with everything we do, we keep secure. We keep an eye on it. It's run by our government and it's run to the point that we, it's got structure to it.

It's like education. I mean, it's got to have structure. Now, for some reason, we look at things to change to think we're going to make it better, but we better do a lot of work on it before we make that change. Jane, that is the former Auburn football coach who is now the junior United States senator from the state of Alabama, Tommy Tuberville. He is not very different from most of the people who are supporting Mr. Trump and his policies. Forty percent of the people in the electorate in this country would support a man who would say it's all right to deny people the vote based on the color of their skin. So, Jane, where do we go?

Where do we go? So if we are to... We have to educate these young people. This young man is an example of what we haven't done with education. He needs to be taught the truth. We haven't been teaching the truth in the schools in this country for the last 300 years. This is a problem of education. Educators are supposed to lead people out of ignorance. You can see that

this young man should be listening to you three adults who know what you're talking about. He is trying to teach you. You have forgotten more since breakfast than he will ever know. You have experienced things that he will never experience, but he will experience them if he doesn't get his head on straight and start reading the history as it really happened instead of reading it as he was told in the schools in the United States of America. He firmly believes that a person who can make the amount of money that our former president did by grifting others is more admirable than you three people who know what you're talking about. You've been where he's going. What you're trying to do is set it up so he doesn't have to go through what you have gone through.

That doesn't have to happen again. We could put a stop to this if we chose to. But instead, we are perpetuating this myth as long as we keep this people like this young man in the dark. If we can keep him believing the lie, that's how long we can perpetuate racism in this country. We think. But it isn't going to work.

We are... Melanemic people are going to be grossly outnumbered, and it's coming faster than we expected it. We've got to change our behaviors. We've got to change our attitude. We've got to change our beliefs. We've got to change our myths. And we've got to stop telling myths as though they are fact. We've got to start dealing with the truth in this country.

Final comment. I'm going to go now to Recy. My final comment is I don't believe for one second that CJ doesn't know better. Bless you. I'm not trying to lecture you or anything like that. I think you're doing what you set out to do, which is you have a brand, you have an agenda, you're young, you have a bright future ahead of you in the conservative world if you continue to regurgitate your talking points and

stick to that script. But I just say again, I hope you don't get that N-word wake-up call that we all get one day, one way or another. CJ? Well, Roland, I want to thank you for having me. I actually really did have a good time today, so thank you so much for extending the invitation. But really beyond all that, I will say, you know, I'm not a victim.

I've never been. I don't live in a constant state of oppression. I believe that we create the opportunities that we want to have in this country. I'm proud to have supported President Trump. We'll be proud to support him again in the event that he does run. But really what this is all about for me, this is bigger than race. I think the way that we actually bridge the racial divide, the way that we actually ensure that black and brown people are uplifted in this nation is by encouraging, you know, actual policies that are going to uplift our people, right? Policies that are going to ensure that we are able to create small businesses.

Policies that are going to ensure that we're not wedded to the federal government for entitlements, meaning like food stamps, welfare, whatever. We need to create victors, not victims. That's what I'm all about. That's my idea. That's my platform. That's my agenda. It's not about pushing Donald Trump's plan or pushing white people or whatever. It's about pushing the idea that black people control their own destiny in this country

because we are no longer slaves. We are people that control who we wish to be, who we are, and that's what I believe, period. Greg Carr. Yeah, no, this has been very useful, I think, in some ways. In other ways, not so much. But Recy cut through all of it when it comes to this specific conversation. You did your job well, young brother.

You stayed on brand. As a Gen Z-er, you know the importance of sticking to a message when folks aren't going to dig much deeper. And just know that there have always been individuals who, oppressors of all type, have picked out of the groups that are oppressed in order to do two things,

give them a bit of a safety valve and a bit of a fig leaf, as you heard Professor Elliott say. And also, those people are well rewarded. That's the second thing. And you're right about Colin Powell. Colin Powell back in January said, you know, I no longer am affiliated with the Republican Party, but that isn't because he didn't want to be a fiscal conservative. That isn't because he's not a warmonger, because he absolutely is. And another reason not to look at

Lynne Cheney as a hero, her father's the reason there are a number of women and men who are dead right now for the misadventure overseas 20 years that's been going on. But ultimately, it pays well. And as Recy said, I hope you don't get that wake-up call, but as Professor Elliott has said, we're trying to help you understand that no matter how well you do as an individual, in the words of Frantz Fanon, you are overdetermined from without, because race is not something people who enslaved your ancestors brought. It is something that was created to keep your ancestors in place. And once we fought our way out of that, to keep them on the bottom of this very deeply

capitalist structure. And so as you are there in Alabama, and if you can name all 50 states, you can say at least one word in a half a dozen, actually, no, what am I saying, a half dozen, at least a couple of dozen Native American languages, meaning the first crime of this country was settler colonialism, never forget that no matter how you think about yourself as an individual, I hope, because, you know, I've spent many dark nights in Alabama, let us all pray that whatever you're saying and doing won't turn into a situation when you confront the fact that no matter how you feel about yourself, it is how this country feels about you that determines a lot of your life chances and a lot of the life chances of the

people who will remain oppressed in part because you will be used as a pawn by those who will keep us oppressed by saying, but look, there's CJ. So just be careful, brother. And our doors are always open. I hope you come back for more of this conversation. Jane, close us out, Jane. You've all said it all. I don't need to say any more. I'm just shocked that this young man, with all his education, doesn't know what's going on in this country. I don't understand how he cannot see what's going on around him.

Yes, I do too. He's young, and he will grow up. If he is allowed to grow up in this country, I will be extremely pleased. I'll close it out this way. My position is very simple. No, no, no, I'm going to leave it on the file shot. I love the people who run their mouths on Twitter like this, I don't know who this ignorant woman is,

Robin Barnes out of Michigan. She's the CEO and principal broker of Latitude Luxury Real Estate in Michigan. First of all, she said, why are you picking on this kid? Now, CJ will tell you, a whole bunch of CJ supporters were saying the same thing before CJ turned 18.

I said, see. I'm proud to be here. No, no, no, no, no. I'm CJ turned 18. I said, see... I'm proud to be here. No, no, no, no. I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you what she said. And CJ confirmed it. I said it. I'm going to wait until he turns 18 when he grown before I invite him on the show so y'all can stop whining and saying,

why are you picking on a kid? I said, we'll wait. When he turned 18, I said, now you can come on the show. The other thing is this here. All the folks talking about, oh, let somebody finish. This is real simple for me, CJ.

And if anybody, I've had black conservatives on my show before. I've had different people. When somebody says something is not true, I'm going to jack them. I don't care whether you conservative liberal, when you use stuff that's factually incorrect, I'm a stop you because I can't let the audience.

This ain't Tucker. I'm not Sean. I'm not that food grant. Sean Spicer, Laura Ingram. I don't let nonfactual stuff slide on the show. Last one. This is my only advice for you, CJ.

When somebody asks you a question, don't obfuscate. Don't deflect. Just answer the question. Because here's the deal. When you don't answer the question, it sounds like you don't want to answer the question. And so I'm a press folk. So and I get, hey, everybody, I know how to stay on point. I know how not to get trapped.

But the point I'm saying is you're going to come on. Hey, answer it. Say it. Nope. I didn't call Donald Trump out when it came to the deficit, but I still supported him. That's the only deal there. But this is all I ask. This is all I ask you, CJ.

And I've said this to Eugene. I've said it to Chris. I've said it to Paris. Said it to Schermichael. I can name every black Republican I've had. Don't be afraid to check your party.

Don't be afraid to check your party on race. Don't be afraid to check your party. Don't be afraid to check your party on race. Don't be afraid to say to your party when they screw up, hey, y'all ain't doing what's right. Do not defend their bullshit because what they want are black people to give them cover. And all I'm saying, as a brother who's 52, who knows Michael Williams, when a Republican would not condemn black church burnings,

his wife Donna, they were going to have a fundraiser in her house, at their house. Donna said, ain't no man welcome in my house who will not condemn the burning of black churches. Michael worked for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, and he worked for Governor George W. Bush, said, no, will we not be a fundraiser in our house? And so what I ask of black Republicans,

be like Bob Brown, be like Alfonso Jackson, be like black Republicans who are willing to challenge their party. Be like Michael Steele to call them out when they're wrong. And let me be real clear. You see a whole bunch of Democrats know how I jam them up. And Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office has been avoiding me for 10 months. And I'm calling her out constantly.

And I'm letting them know. And trust me, I ain't on no Obama mailing list because I also was willing to critique him when need be. I ain't a Democrat. I ain't a Republican. I'm not liberal. I'm not conservative. Because of Jane, I'm a melanated man.

For my mom and daddy, I'm a black man, Reesey. I'm going to go with you on that one. And we're going to call it like it is. That's how we're going to roll. Folks, I appreciate it. Great conversation. It's a whole bunch of other stuff we had, but I blew the rest of the whole show up. That's what you do when

you own your shit. Jane, it's always great to see you. Thank you so very much. Reesey, glad to have you back, your newborn baby. Thank you so very much. Reese, glad to have you back, your newborn baby. Thank you so very much. CJ, we'll have you back if you want to come back. Greg Carr, always a pleasure, my alpha brother. And all you, Jane, go ahead.

You are all welcome to come to my house in Iowa, but you especially, CJ, I want to see you at my house in Iowa, and I want to sit down with you and have a discussion as to how lucky you are to still be alive. Hey, we can hop in a RoRoMobile and take a trip to Iowa. That would be something.

Where you are seen as something we need to destroy. Make no mistake about this. I want this stopped. But we won't get it stopped as long as you go along with the people who are perpetrating it. You can't go along to get along and put a stop to the nonsense. If I haven't learned anything else in my life in the last 87 years, I've learned that I could go along and not be kicked out of my family. I refuse to do that.

When you see something wrong, you have to name it. You have to stop it. What you're seeing is wrong, but you don't want to see it that way because they're appealing to your vanity. And you are gorgeous. You are gorgeous. There's no doubt about it. They will destroy you. They will destroy you.

As they tried to destroy ct vivian they never got that done they destroyed martin luther king jr i don't want that to happen to you i've met ct vivian he was young like you were once and he learned the hard way what you have to do to survive as a black male in the united states of america reverend.T. Vivian was my frat brother, and I always enjoyed the opportunity to sit down and chat with him. He was an absolutely great man. We lost him last year, and we miss him dearly. Folks, I appreciate it.

To everybody who watched, thank you so very much. Y'all, please support what we do here at Roland Martin Unfiltered. Ain't nobody else having these kind of real conversations. Join our Breana Funk fan club, Cash App, Dollar Sign, RM Unfiltered, Paypal.me forward slash rmartinunfiltered, Venmo.com forward slash rmunfiltered, Zelle, Roland at RolandSMartin.com, Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com.

Y'all supported what we do and because look, we all about giving y'all, this was straight unfiltered today, that's all it was. We keep it real, we keep it black, We keep it real. We keep it black. We keep it honest. We keep it hot. And look, if you can't handle this conversation, ain't my damn problem.

To all y'all New York Yankees fans, highlight them Astros kicking y'all butt today. Don't be haters. Don't be haters. Mark Thompson, all about the Strobes. I'm going to see y'all tomorrow from Elizabeth City, North Carolina, where we're going to be live streaming and broadcasting the Andrew Brown Jr. rally. Oh, and to all the fools who tried to say I got ran out of Elizabeth City, North Carolina,

hmm, I wonder why they invited me back. But y'all asses ain't showing up there. Don't worry, y'all can watch our live stream. Before I go, don't forget the conversation that we have right now on my Facebook page, Andrew Young and Cliff Albright. Roll it. It's just about hurting black folk.

Right. Nope, that's not it. That's the wrong one. I need you to roll the ambassador, Andrew Young. There you go, that one. Let's put it. That's the wrong one. I need you to roll the ambassador, Andrew Young. There you go. That one. Put another nail in the coffin of racism. You talk about awakening America. It led to a historic summer of protest.

I hope our younger generation don't ever forget that nonviolence is soul force. That's right. Go to our Facebook page right now. You can see that conversation with Andrew Young and Cliff Albright. Now, this Monday, 11 a.m. Eastern, we're going to premiere Reverend Dr. William J. Barber and a sister who climbed that flagpole

and took down the Confederate flag in South Carolina, Bree Newsome, sneak peek of their conversation. White supremacists ain't just about hurting black folk. Right. We gotta deal with it. It's injustice. It's wrong. I do feel like in this generation, we've got to do more around being intentional and resolving conflict.

You and I have always agreed. Yeah. But we agree on the big piece. Yeah. Our conflict is not about destruction. Conflict's going to happen. All right, y'all. the six-part series we have. The first one is Tiffany Loughlin,

Jenetta B. Cole. The second one is Andrew Young, Cliff Albright. The third one is Bree Newsome, Reverend Dr. William J. Barber. Premieres on Monday, 11 a.m. Eastern on my Facebook page and Instagram page as well. Y'all check all of those out. We got six of them.

Two are already aired. Third one airs on Monday. I told y'all, ain't nobody doing what we doing. That's why y'all got to support us in what we do. I'm going to see y'all tomorrow from Elizabeth City, North Carolina. How? A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You say you'd never give in to a meltdown. Never let kids' toys take over the house. And never fill your feed with kid photos. You'd never plan your life around their schedule. Never lick your thumb to clean their face. And you'd never let them leave the house looking like less than their best. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it. Never let them stay up too late. And never let them run wild through the grocery store. We have one aisle six. And aisle three.

So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there, no, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens. Before you leave the car, always stop, look, lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. This is an iHeart

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