#RolandMartinUnfiltered - DOJ ends raw sewage settlement, Crockett rips GOP's dangerous health agenda, El Salvador Deportation

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

4.14.2025 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: DOJ ends raw sewage settlement, Crockett rips GOP's dangerous health agenda, El Salvador Deportation In 2023, the Department of Justice identified a pattern of neglect by Alabama's Department of Public Health, which has contributed to a decades-old water and sewage crisis in the state's "Black Belt," specifically in Lowndes County. Now, the MAGA administration is terminating the settlement that was reached to address the county's water issues. I will speak with the Rural Development Manager of the Equal Justice Initiative about how this decision will continue to affect Black citizens in Alabama. The false narrative that noncitizens were voting led to the passage of the SAVE Act, which requires documentary proof of citizenship to register or update voter information. We will discuss with the Policy Council from the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law the implications of this law on voters. In tonight's Crockett Chronicles, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett calls out MAGA Republicans for turning public health into a partisan circus. And thousands turnout to honor one of the greatest boxers of all time, George Foreman.  #BlackStarNetwork partner: Fanbasehttps://www.startengine.com/offering/fanbase This Reg A+ offering is made available through StartEngine Primary, LLC, member FINRA/SIPC.  This investment is speculative, illiquid, and involves a high degree of risk, including the possible loss of your entire investment. You should read the Offering Circular (https://bit.ly/3VDPKjD) and Risks (https://bit.ly/3ZQzHl0) related to this offering before investing. Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox  http://www.blackstarnetwork.com The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

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Go to startengine.com slash fanbase and own the future of social media. Folks, Black Star Network is here. Hold no punches. I'm real revolutionary right now. I'm proud. Support this man, Black Star Network is here. Hold no punches! I'm real revolutionary right now. I'm proud. Support this man, Black Media. He makes sure that our stories are told. I thank you for being the voice of Black America, Roller.

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You dig? Thank you. Today's Monday, April 14th, 2025, coming up on Roller Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. Donald Trump, they are ignoring a Supreme Court ruling. In fact, this thug is actually They are ignoring a Supreme Court ruling. In fact, this thug is actually trying to suggest the Supreme Court rule in their favor. That is a lie. He met with the president of El Salvador.

He was caught on mic saying they should build more prisons because he plans to send Americans to El Salvadorian prisons. Also, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett calls out MAGA for turning public health into a partisan battle. And speaking of the thugs in Donald Trump's administration, I told you they do not give a damn about black people.

They have overruled a decision made by the Biden administration regarding an area in Alabama. Black people dealt with sewage backup in their neighborhood. Trump calls it an illegal DEI decision. And guess what? All of these MAGA Negroes are real quiet. Plus, thousands turned out for the homegoing service of boxing great George Foreman.

Folks, it's time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin, unfiltered, on the Black Star Network. Let's go. He's got whatever the piss he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling. Best believe he's knowing.

Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's on go, go, go, yo. It's rolling, Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, yeah, yeah. Rolling with rolling now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best.

You know he's rolling, Martel. Yeah. Martel. Folks, I have told you on numerous occasions, Donald Trump and MAGA does not give a damn about black people. Here is the one thousand two hundred and seventy second example of that. The U.S. Department of Justice, they've ended a landmark agreement that was meant to fix longstanding sewage problems in Lowndes County, known as the Black Belt in Alabama. The decision follows a directive from the Trump administration, an executive order that bans federal agencies from supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. Now, these idiots are declaring that this agreement is DEI.

Now, folks, this takes place 30 miles from Montgomery, the state capital of Alabama, the heart of the Black Belt, where more than 5,000 homes in the county, or 60%, have failing or inefficient sewer systems. That's thousands of families, many of them black, living with sewage in their yards or backing up into their homes. Lowndes County, 9800 people, folks, and the county is 72.5% black, 25.9% white. Generations have endured raw sewage in their yards, not because of poor choices, but because of poor infrastructure and government neglect. That's why the Biden administration launched an environmental justice investigation in 2021, which found that Alabama's public health officials failed to protect residents from wastewater hazards.

Catherine Coleman Flowers, the CEO of the Center for Rural Enterprise and Environmental Justice, she's going to join us tomorrow to discuss this, but I'm discussing right now my panel, Dr. Omikongo Dabingo, Sr., professorial lecturer, School of International Service at American University, author of Lies About Black People, How to Combat Racist Stereotypes and Why It Matters, D.C., Tommy Christopher, editor, Mediaite out of Tuckerton, New Jersey, Eugene Craig, CEO, X Factor Media out of Baltimore. Eugene, I'll start with you. All of these MAGA people, where are they, these black MAGA people? It's amazing how quiet they are.

So this decision impacts black people in Lowndes County. The Cancer Alley decision to stop that lawsuit against Petrochemical Company affects black people in Louisiana. They stopped a lawsuit dealing with black people and voting in Texas. Donald Trump does not give a damn about black people. And all of these black people, all of those Negroes who were so happy,

smiling and shucking and jiving at the White House Black History Month party, it's amazing how quiet all of them they are. Where's Michaela Montgomery? Where's CJ Pearson?? Where's C.J. Pearson? Where is David Harris? Where is, what's his name, Pinto? You know, where are all these folks?

Where's that little girl from FAMU who's running around? It's amazing how quiet they are when these things are impacting black people and you don't hear peep. Look, the thing about this new wave of black MAGA is that, look, it's actually sad and disappointing, right?

Because they don't care about black people. They just care about feeling slightly better about themselves for the poor decisions that they make. So yeah, all they do care about is doing things like, you know, showing up to the White House for a quote-unquote Black History Month event right after the White House, you know, assaults Black history. You know, we shouldn't expect them to ever speak out against things, you know, like the

White House ending this DEI lawsuit, but they're calling it a DEI lawsuit, when in reality it's actually the federal government cleaning up a state and local government mess. You know, we shouldn't expect them to reasonably, you know, speak out, you know, when, you know, they want to shut down the Blacksonian, right? We shouldn't reasonably expect them to speak out when they want to erase Harriet Tubman and the true essence of the Underground Railroad from the National Park Service. We shouldn't expect them to speak out, you know, when the Pentagon says, oh, yeah, Jackie Robinson was DEI hire. We shouldn't expect them to speak out with none of this because, first and foremost, you know, they have to appeal to white conservatives for the grift to work. Because without that appeal, the grift just wouldn't work.

And so, you know, when you're looking at Dr. Julio out of Atlanta, when you're looking at, you know, any of these folk that decided to pop up and run around and prop up Donald Trump, just expect them to not show up when it comes to actual black issues affecting black people, when it comes to this Trump White House. On the Congo and Bomba is this here. When you look at all of this, these folks are silent. They are complicit. Again, Byron Donald's nothing.

Burgess Owens, nothing. Wesley Hunt, nothing. Tim Scott, nothing. They're just all quiet. They're saying nothing. And these are real issues impacting black people, impacting the lives of black people. Yeah. And these guys got more smoke for Pastor Jamal Bryant than they have for anything this administration is doing. And it's shameful and disgraceful. And you mentioned Tim Scott and Byron Donalds and the like, this is who they are. And they're still trying to find a way to angle for some way to get in good graces with this administration to build their profile while our people are dying, while our people are struggling.

And these situations, Trump and his people, all they see with these areas, all they see is land. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. And they see possibilities of people having to move into other areas so they can go in and take over that land. And for these poor white folks in these rural communities and in these other spaces, they're going to do the same thing with you as well.

If they're not doing it already. I don't know if there's other networks that are speaking out, you know, for poor, marginalized white people. We do on this network. What I'm saying, we're paying real attention to it like we're doing right now. They're coming for everybody and they have no respect for people who are poor, for people who are struggling and for people who are dealing with, as Brother Craig was saying, man-made disasters. And this is the other thing. Did you see the interview last week where Kennedy, you know, they were like, hey, man, you cut this program for teen diabetes. And he was like, oh, we didn't do that. We just cut all the DEI stuff. They use DEI as a trigger word for everything. And as long as they use that term, DEI, for everything, the Byron Donalds of the world, the Tim Scotts of the world,

none of them are going to speak up, because they don't want to be associated with anything that might actually be looked at DEI. This is not DEI. This is public health. This is people dying. This is communities being torn apart, and it's been happening for decades. And I don't know what's going to happen with these black Republicans, because to be quite honest, as long as they continue to be a mouth chump for Donald Trump, a mouthpiece for Donald Trump, we're not going to hear a peep for them about anything having to do with the empowerment of black people in these situations. We are on our own from them. Absolutely. And so I think it is safe to say that black people can forget having any protection at all from this administration. I mean, you can forget them standing up for black people. They are going to stand up for big business at every turn. A hundred percent. I mean, look, John James announced his run for governor of Michigan, right? I think every single black Michigander needs to be asking them from

here on out, why haven't you done anything to support the situation of Flint? And what can we reasonably expect you to lie about you're going to do if you get elected governor? Oh, yeah. And so sure. John James, where you at? Where you at? And this is this is where this is where every single one of these black Republicans need to be questioned specifically about these decisions that impact black people on the Congo.

It's simple as that. And we should let them off the hook. Oh, absolutely. And given the incredible work that was done in Louisiana to destroy, you know, those those four initiatives that that the governor had on the ballot there, these black Republicans need to wake up because as you always talk about, Roland, when we get the turnout and get our numbers out in the places where the places we populate, we are unstoppable. And I think that more and more black people slowly but surely are waking up to that fact. When you look at the roadwork of Black Votes Matter and some of these other organizations, I think every black Republican should be on notice right now. You're not going to be able

to bring in 50 Cent. You're not going to be able to bring in some of these other guys who are going to speak for you and just say, oh, we'll just get some black votes. We'll just throw in a black celebrity here and there. It's not going to work this time around. And these guys are continually and daily making themselves irrelevant because the Trump administration has shown that they have nothing for them. I'm not even convinced Byron Donald will even get that Trump endorsement when he runs for governor in Florida. But where are these guys going to go? They're going to think they can always come back, kind of Candace Owens-like, try to rehabilitate themselves, go on a couple of podcasts here and there, maybe get an interview on some of these.

There's always room with Stephen A. Smith and some of these other guys who does not speak for black people in the Democratic Party. But they will see that as a way to kind of move themselves up. But we have to be unforgiving in how we challenge the people who have abandoned us. They cannot be able to be allowed back in, especially after this administration continues to reject them. And again, going back to that Louisiana example, we are showing that when we flex our muscle, we are unstoppable. And all of those black Republicans out there need to be on notice with that. All right, folks, hold tight one second. When we come back, we'll talk about the thug Trump aligning himself and telling the El

Salvadoran president, I'm going to send Americans to your prison. So build lots more. Folks, you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered right here on the Blackstar Network. On the next Get Wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach, I'm sure you've heard that saying that the only thing guaranteed is death and taxes. The truth is that the wealthy get wealthier by understanding tax strategy. And that's exactly the conversation that we're going to have on the next Get Wealthy, where you're going to learn wealth hacks that help you turn your wages into wealth. Taxes is one of the largest expenses you ever have. You really got to know how to manage that thing and get that under control so that you can

do well. That's right here on Get Wealthy, only on Blackstar Network. This week on the other side of change, we're going to examine how foreign policy impacts domestic policy and how domestic policy impacts foreign policy. We are all intertwined and we're going to have Hannah Reed help us break down that topic. We should not want our country to be the big bad wolf of the globe because that puts us in a really vulnerable position safety wise as well. Only on the other side of change on the Black Star Network. I'm Russell L. Honore, Lieutenant General, United States Army, retired, and you're watching Roland Martin on Filth. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A thug, a thug, a thug is in the Oval Office. OVAL OFFICE. DONALD TRUMP IS DEFYING A UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT ORDER THAT THE ADMINISTRATION RETURNED A MAN WHO IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO WAS MISTAKENLY SENT TO EL SALVADOR.

HIS FAMILY DOES NOT HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD. BUT AS FAR AS TRUMP IS CONCERNED, YOU KNOW WHAT, THEY DON'T CARE. IN FACT, IN THE OVAL OFFICE TODAY, DURING WHILE THE PRESIDENT OF EL SALVADOR WAS THERE, In the Oval Office today, while the president of El Salvador was there, while the media was asking questions, Trump actually lied and claimed that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 9-0 in his favor as opposed to against him. Listen to this stupidity. I promise you, if he was your neighbor, you would move right away.

So you don't plan to ask for a new house if you get it back? And what was the ruling in the Supreme Court, Steve? Was it 9-0? Yes, it was a 9-0. In our favor. In our favor against the district court ruling saying that no district court has the power to compel the foreign policy function of the United States.

As Pam said, the ruling solely stated that if this individual at El Salvador's sole discretion was sent back to our country, that we could deport him a second time. Well, no version of this legally ends up with him ever living here because he is a citizen of El Salvador. That is the president of El Salvador. Your questions about it per the court can only be directed to him. Folks, that's not a lie. That's an absolute lie. That is not what the Supreme Court said. And in that meeting, the president of El Salvador said that he would not return Kilmar Garcia claiming that he's a terrorist. There's no, there's nothing that states that this man is a terrorist. He's never been charged as a member of MS-13.

Nothing. He made it up. But then again, I guess his mentor is Donald Trump. The two of them were talking and not realizing the live stream was still going. But Trump said, hey, you're going to need to build more prisons because I'm going to send American citizens to your prisons. Is Tommy there? I said homegrowns are next. The homegrowns. You've got to build about five more places. Yeah. I said, homegrowns are next. The homegrowns.

You've got to build about five more places. Yeah, that's fair. All right? It's not big enough. No, yeah, yeah. Come on. So this is a much different office than you're in. So, Omicongo, Donald Trump says, I am going to send American prisoners to the prisons

in El Salvador. I'm sorry, you don't have the right to export American citizens to a foreign country. So glad you used the word export because you can't use deport because you can't deport an American citizen. This is what dictatorship looks like. And so many people who wanted to, you know, you've seen Roland, I think probably on like day two or even before the election, you're like, yeah, we already in a constitutional crisis. But all these other places were arguing for days. Well, if we get to this point, it's a crisis. To get to this point, there's no more discussion for any of these guys anymore. When a president can outright just lie and then talk about getting rid of, you know,

ignoring the Constitution, calling this man a terrorist, and on top of that, he needs all of his staff there because he has no real basis understanding of what's of of each individual case that's out there so he'll go to miller um what what was the case pam bondy oh which one was that and let them do all of the talking you all need to understand as justice sotomayor said in last week what he wants to do is to be able to round everybody up who disagrees of him so everybody who was out there talking about we don't care about folks getting getting deported, or y'all having these find-out moments and all of the other type of stuff, we are all in this together now if you were not clear. Now I know ruling under the Supreme Court, and he decided to ignore them wholeheartedly.

Welcome to the dictatorship. And a dictatorship doesn't have to be everybody's under rule. It's just that the people that they want to be ruled over are the ones being ruled over. And so if y'all are not going to get this now, if you're not going to challenge us now, what are you going to do? People are talking about arresting. What are you waiting for? Because really, at the end of the day, nobody is safe. And when they were in a court a couple of weeks ago, one of the judges asked, does that mean that they can just come up and round me up? And the attorney didn't answer. So if there's any question about whether this man is going to respect the rule of law, we all knew that this was the case. We all knew this was coming. It was emphatically made clear today. This man is not a terrorist. He's a resident of my state. And he was under

temporary protective status under Trump's first administration. But now all of a sudden they want to call him this and snatch him off the streets and take him from his three children, one of them who's autistic, and do this to him. They can do this to him. They could do it to anybody. America better watch out. Eugene, I remember a whole bunch of these loudmouthed FBA Negroes saying, oh yeah, they can't deport us. They can deport them. They can't deport us

because we foundational black Americans. What it sounds to me like, oh, we going to export you. We're going to call a deport, but we're going to ship some black people to El Salvadorian prisons. And look, he's trying, say, you need five more of these things, and I believe that prison

holds 100,000 people. The thing, the issue is here, right? We're already in a constitutional crisis. When you have a president that openly just disrespects the rule of law, you have a Supreme Court that included Alito and Clarence Thomas ruling with a 9-0 majority that the United States government needs to facilitate bringing this gentleman back. When you have a president that is now saying that district courts have no say over what happens over the executive branch, yeah, folks should probably be more than a little worried, right? Because, you know, first it started with the person who's here illegally, then it went to the protected status person, then it went to the green card holder, and now he's already laid out and straight up said, look, we're going to eventually send homegrown U.S. citizens here. And the thing is this, right? The Constitution only protects

you as long as everybody respects it. And we're at a point where Donald Trump is openly saying, F the Supreme Court, F the district courts, F the Constitution, F your actual rights, what he says is law. And he has the full staff and no guardrails there to stop him this time around. So yeah, these FBA folk that either set out for the election or they're standing on some other type of business, they might want to get their shit together pretty quickly and say, you could be next. Folks, and Republicans are allowing him to do so.

Last week they paved past the SAVE Act, which is one of the most onerous voter suppression bills that is going to have a negative impact on millions of Americans. To help us explain this, Alex Ayla, policy counsel at the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. Alex, glad to have you here. There are a lot of people who are very concerned that if the United States Senate passes this bill, this is going to disenfranchise millions of people. I've seen some estimates ranging from 40 to 70 million Americans. Yeah, it's a real concern, Roland. We're

basically at the point where we're hoping the Senate saves us from the same. This is something that asks voters to register with passports or what they call enhanced driver's license, which are only available in five states, a U.S. passport or a birth certificate. Truly, how many people do you know that have one of those documents available? It's ridiculous. So the other thing they're doing here is they're banning online voter registration, which 42 states currently have. And they're saying every time you want to register to vote or every time you want to move, you have to show up in person with those documents. It's outrageous. Now, the good news is this just passed the House. It hasn't passed the Senate yet.

And Leader Schumer has said it's getting no Democratic votes in the Senate. So it's safe for now. But we have seen Democrats, frankly, play dead when it comes to constitutional rights before. So it's on us to make sure that nobody is thinking that this is an acceptable piece of legislation to move. So here's a question then. How do we fight back? Yeah.

I think what you need to do is you need to register to vote right now, right? Because the reason they're attacking the way we register to vote is because they know that this is one of the last tools in the toolbox to get them out of office or to hold people accountable. So register to vote right now. The second thing to do is let your lawmakers know under no circumstance is this acceptable. And that goes for Democrats and Republicans across the line. At the Lawyers Committee, we're nonpartisan, right? We're yelling at everybody equally at this point. So we're

going to do that. Now, second point is we're ready to sue if this goes through, and we're going to examine all of our legal options. But we just heard in the previous segment we're not waiting for the courts to save us. So the important thing to do is let people know right now how unpopular this is. Absolutely. And I just think people need to understand what's going on here. And this is an administration that does not care about the law. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way.

Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. They believe they have supreme power. And when you have that sort of state of mind,

yeah, you're not necessarily going to have a free and fair election in 2026. Absolutely. And you know what? They already tried to do this. They tried to pass an EO that has a lot of the same elements of the SAVE Act. So they're trying to take two bites of the apples here. They've got an executive order saying, oh, only voters, when they register, can only have these certain type of documents. And then they've got this bill over here trying to do the same thing. They know the executive order is unconstitutional, and they likely know that the SAVE Act has no chance of passage through the Senate. But they're taking every single opportunity they can to undermine the rule of law and attack voting rights, and that's why it's stay in this fight and register to vote.

To be a lot to contend with, I think people need to understand that these are not people to be trusted. You do not have an attorney general, a Department of Justice that is going to be about justice. It is not equal justice under law for them. It is about appeasing Donald Trump. And so this will be for the first time for the DOJ that we cannot look to to be impartial and to give and to hold people under the rule of law because these thugs running the administration are going to do whatever they want. I think that's right. And I think it's really ironic. You know, for years, we've heard actors who want to suppress votes and discriminate say, oh, elections are up to the states. Elections are up to the states. That's why Alabama or Georgia can do this horrible thing to black voters. Right. And now that they control the presidency in Congress,

suddenly it's, hey, we want to set one national uniform federal standard. It's hypocritical, but we expect that. We know it's about power. So what we're looking at is, OK, if you're going to pass this, what's your baseline here? What's your rationale for doing so? And what we're seeing is the SAVE Act is just the same zombie ideas of a solution in search of a problem. They're claiming all of the stuff about non-citizens voting that's never been proven true. And their prescription for it would block the voter registration of millions of people. We've also seen this at play already.

Kansas in 2011 passed a similar law. They ended up blocking 31,000 US citizens from registering to vote. Now, that's Kansas. That's 12% of their entire population. And ultimately, federal courts said that's unconstitutional. They haven't done it since 2018. And their election administrators in deep red Kansas are saying this is a disaster. Do not do this.

It doesn't work if you want fair and free elections. All right. Alex, we certainly appreciate it. Continue to battle in the courts. Thanks a lot. Thank you, Roland. we certainly appreciate it. Continue the battle in the courts. Thanks a lot. Thank you, Roland. Thanks for having me. Folks, got to go to the break.

We come back to Crockett Chronicles as she talks about MAGA turning public health issue into partisan battles. Folks, if you want to support the work that we do, join our Bring the Funk fan club. Your dollars make it possible for us to be able to broadcast all across the country like we did on Friday at St. Augustine's University in Raleigh, North Carolina. You can, of course, support us via Cash App by using the Stripe QR code. You see it right there on the screen.

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We'll be right back. This week on A Balanced Life with Dr. Jackie here on Black Star Network, we are talking about all things, you got it, stress-related. Yes, the big S, whether it's spiritual, physical, emotional, or sometimes it could be just in your head. Stress has a way of manifesting itself in our lives in such a way that it disrupts who we are and who we're in the process of becoming. Stress is just as bad as a lot of the physical ailments that we think of. That's all next on A Balanced Life on the Blackstar Network. Hi, I'm Vivian Green.

Hi, I'm Wendell Pierce, actor and author of The Wind in the Reeds. Hey, yo, peace world. What's going on? It's the love king of R&B, Raheem Devon, and you're watching Roland Martin, Unfiltered. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett did not hold back when she went off on Republicans turning a public health issue into a partisan issue. Check it out.

Heard of winning yet. We are hugely winning. We have the best of the best, right? Wrong. That was sarcasm if you didn't catch it. The fact is, we should never have partisan politics playing a role when we're talking about something such as science. But unfortunately, in today's times, Democrats believe in scientists and experts and data, and Republicans instead believe in conspiracy

theorists. And right now, that is who we have leading one of the most important agencies in this country is a conspiracy theorist, not someone who has an actual resume to get the job done. So why would anyone trust the Republicans on anything, let alone matters of public health and safety? It has taken Texas largest measles outbreak in 30 years with more than 500 confirmed cases and the death of two children for the secretary of the department of health and human services to say what we already knew. The most effective way to prevent the spread of measles is the MMR vaccine. This is the same guy who chaired the anti-vax nonprofit Children's Health Defense. Just last month during an interview with Fox News, he suggested

that somehow being infected with measles could provide protection against cancer and heart disease. The Republicans are implementing the most dangerous public health agenda in modern American history and people are literally dying as a result. This administration doesn't believe in science. They're firing thousands of scientists and public health officials who keep our food and medicine safe, slashing funding for scientific agencies that help cities and states respond to public health emergencies, limiting public access to research and data that contradicts their misinformation. They're using financial threats to manipulate which studies the government

will sponsor and blocking researchers from diversifying clinical trials. This reckless and chaotic approach will make it more difficult for the FDA to achieve its mission of protecting the public health of Americans. But there are two issues that I want to address before my time expires. Staffing at FDA has long been a challenge. The Government Accountability Office has identified several challenges at FDA as high-risk issues. One of the bigger issues the GAO has identified is FDA's extensive workload. Last Congress, the Senate held a hearing on the sale of unauthorized and illegal vaping products and e-cigarettes. During the hearing, Dr. Brian King, director of FDA's Center for Tobacco Products, testified that the volume of pre-market tobacco

product applications is overwhelming. So FDA is instead prioritizing its enforcement responsibilities when it comes to e-cigarettes products. But just last week, Trump not only fired the director of FDA's Tobacco Center, he closed two entire offices responsible for drafting new tobacco regulations and setting policies. In its 2025 high-risk report, GAO stated that, quote, stable senior FDA and center leadership remains of vital importance to the agency. How will this vacuum of leadership impact the public health and safety of Americans? It will put Americans at risk. Congresswoman, you raised a very, very important point. I'm the only pediatrician on this panel today. And your constituents, please, the most important thing is what you said. If you want to prevent measles, please have your children vaccinated against that very dangerous disease. Thank you so much for that, Doc. And I only got 56 seconds. And I don't know if I'm gonna go

through my last question because you just, I'm looking at Greg to see if he gonna make me do it. Listen, I'm gonna go off instead. Sorry. I appreciate the fact that you are an expert in this. And here's the reality. The Republicans and definitely MAGA loves to troll me in so many ways. And the reality is that I trust and believe experts. I don't believe that I know everything. I believe that I was elected by my constituents to make sure that I could keep them safe in all ways, making sure that they are not going to be victimized if they have, say, family members that are serving abroad because of Signalgate,

because of that incompetence, making sure that they have access to vaccines if they need it, making sure that they can actually provide for their family because we have real economists that are deciding whether or not we are engaging in a tariff war. General ladies. I mean, Eugene, the reality is we are dealing with idiots. We are dealing with people who want to penalize others. And these people are about retribution. There's no doubt in my mind, and we're seeing it.

We had 19 attorneys general state that their states have not gotten FEMA money that has already been authorized. It's a bottom line. So when it comes to public health, they don't mind killing people. RFK, when he was asked about massive cuts in his department, he had no idea. He didn't know who the hell he made the cuts. And so these people, and I'm telling you, we're on our own. We're going to have to depend upon state health departments and county health departments and the city. We cannot depend on the federal government

because we have incompetent thugs who are in control. Look, it's funny because the party that prides itself on being pro-life is now essentially pro-death. And I agree with you. At this point, we do have to rely on states. We do have to rely on cities. We do have to rely on strong organizations, right to rely on cities we do have to rely on uh or strong organizations right um you know i think some of the states should be making compacts now where you know their data sharing with each other so they can make emphasis on what's going on being that there won't be any national outlook or or data sharing when it comes to a lot of you know diseases that kill people every day um you know they're looking at this measles outbreak and, you know,

and what, you know, Secretary Kennedy is refusing to do. You're looking at North Carolina, right, which, you know, Donald Trump is literally penalizing North Carolinians that just went through two major hurricanes. And so, you know, and a lot of this is being backed by those, right? That's the real issue here, is that they're trying to figure out every dollar they possibly can cut. So they come back and say, oh, we cut all this money from the federal budget. Look at what we saved the taxpayer.

When in reality, you know, they're have looked to the federal government to lead in the past. That is gone. That is not what these people are absolutely positively about them doing whatever they want and to advance their hardcore right wing MAGA agenda, which is all about big, big, big business and profit, profit, profit. Oh, absolutely. And I will say, in addition to us being on our own, it's like we're on our own in terms of having to protect ourselves from them. It's not even just that where no help is coming. We have to do the work to protect ourselves from what they're bringing into our communities. When you talk about that measles outbreak in Texas, I saw the story where there was a doctor, you know, who actually had measles in this meeting with other parents and

kids talking about, yeah, I'm on like day two. I'm doing a little bit better now. No mask or anything. Just sit in there there, just spreading it. And measles is one of the most contagious diseases out there. And parents in there like, oh, God has blessed you and all of that. These are the things that lead to the outbreak. And when they're putting out these types of issues, whose health is more at stake? People in these black and brown communities, we are going to suffer the most. And this connects to our first story about the sewage.

The black folks in that community didn't make the sewage problem. The government did. And so in addition to us being on our own, we have to go the extra step to protect ourselves from them. Because just as Eugene was saying, these guys are pro, like they don't care if people die. They don't care. Kennedy, they do not care. His sister or whoever relative said he was a predator, right? Like, this is who they are. He surrounded himself with predators, people who are, some who are pedophiles, who are anti-Semites, who are racist, who are, you know, billionaires with no connection to the people. They don't care. And so the sooner we realize that, the sooner we can organize. I was watching you, Tiffany Cross and Angela

Rye the other day on y'all's incredible interview. And one of the things that Tiffany Cross said, like all y'all people who said, oh, it feels back in the day doing slavery or whatever, this is what I'd be doing. She's like, you're doing now what you would be doing then. And so if the people aren't getting organized now, who aren't rallying their communities now, who are not doing what they need to do to protect themselves now, whether it's talking about physically, psychologically, mentally, if you don't do it now, it is going to be too late because we don't got time to wait to the midterms. The action and the organizing and the fighting needs to happen now because all of their anti-everything agenda is going to hit us first, and it already is. Oh, absolutely.

And folks just need to be aware of what is happening here. All right, y'all going to a quick break. We'll be right back. Roland Martin unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. On the next Get Wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealthy, where you're going to learn wealth hacks that help you turn your wages into wealth. Taxes is one of the largest expenses you ever have. You really got to know how to manage that thing and get that under control so that you can do well. That's right here on Get Wealthy, only on Blackstar Network.

Hey, this is Motown recording artist Kim. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Boy, he always unfiltered, though. I ain't never known him to be filtered. Is there another way to experience Roland Martin than to be unfiltered? Of course he's unfiltered. Would you expect anything less? Watch what happens next. Thank you. Thank you. All right, folks.

We started the show talking about MAGA, talking about how MAGA rolls, how they operate, and what they're doing. And so guess what? A black museum is getting screwed by Donald Trump. That's right. Boston, the Museum of African American History. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser the revolution but not everyone was convinced it was that simple cops believed everything that taser told them from lava for good and the team that brought you bone valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission this is absolute season one taser incorporated I get right back there and it's bad.

It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player,

Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes

one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. ...oldest in New England, says their future is now in question because the federal government pulled a $500,000 three-year grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. The money was meant to support staffing, school field trips, and educational programming. But get this, the museum's leadership was notified that the grant was being terminated effective immediately. Why?

According to the letter, the museum no longer aligns with the priorities of the White House under the Trump administration. Of course, this comes weeks after Donald Trump targeted the Smithsonian. Here's the whole deal here. And I'm going to say this again, and we said it when it comes to Lowndes County, when it came to all these other different places. These people don't give a damn about black people. Donald Trump is a white nationalist. Stephen Miller is a white nationalist. MAGA's agenda is white people, white conservatives. They do not care.

Now, we tried to warn folk. We tried to tell folk why voting must matter, that this is going to be an all-out assault on black people. But no, some people didn't believe us. Some people were like, oh, you're shilling for the Democrats. Oh, you're just saying these things. You're trying to scare us to come out. Well, they're going after all this black stuff. And again, all these little FBA people.

Oh, yeah, that's right. We're going to stay at home. Y'all look at what's going on right before our very eyes. What did we say at the beginning of the year? What do we say at the inauguration? They want to completely decimate the entire black economic civil rights infrastructure. They want to erase black people. They want to erase black history.

They want to erase history books. They want to erase black museums. They want to return Confederate monuments and plaques and other symbols. I wrote an entire book called White Fear, How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds. What we are witnessing is an all out assault on black people. This is not hard to see, Omicongo. And guess what? We're just in month three. People had better brace for impact because they want to wipe out everything black.

Every single thing. And that museum, you know, for me, that's home for me. I've been there, you know, over the, that's home for me. I've been there, you know, over the years. It's been an institution for us. And people need to really understand, Holanda, that when you say everything, you actually mean everything. Whether we're talking about corporate spaces, whether we're talking about university spaces, whether we're talking about the museums, every single aspect, whether it's talking about the Kennedy Center, every single aspect here is coming forward. And when you talked in many it's talking about the Kennedy Center, every single aspect he is coming for.

And when you talked in many of your interviews about the idea of people generation X and younger not making, you know, taking withdrawals out of the bank account of black civil rights and activism but not making enough deposits, this is that moment that we are in right now. We were already not getting enough history in our schools. We were already not getting enough history in our schools. We were already not getting enough representation in corporate spaces. We were already not getting enough of government contracts. And so whatever little it was, it's all going to be less, if not completely diminished. And so at what point do Black people wake up? We know that we are one of, if not, you know, the largest consumer base in this country. What conversations are we talking about as it relates to re-evaluating our dollars and the money that we could be possibly needing to

send and fundraise for some of these organizations and churches and associations that are being taken out? This is on us to do. That's why the word is on us, because it literally, onus literally means on us. And so when will people get the wake-up call? As I said earlier, not time to rest, because before you know it, something that you value, they're coming for it next. And they may have already come for it, and then you're going to go and try to get those funds or get that information or get that research or get that internship, and it's going to be gone. And lastly, we have to remember, like you talked about in your book, White Fear, they're not even just doing this out of disdain for us. They're doing it out of fear of what young white

people will learn about our history, and they will be inspired to get out there and never want to repeat the mistakes of the past, and they're going to want to unite with us, just like we saw during the Black Lives Matter movement, and they are terrified of that. Oh, I'm just telling you right now, Eugene, these folk better brace for impact. They want to destroy everything black. Listen, folk better brace for impact in a major way. They said they were going to do away with DEI and then declare everything DEI so you justify doing away with it. You know, I was sitting back here thinking, like, literally less than a month ago, it was all jokey-jokey, ha-ha, yeah, we would never send, you know, export, you know,

people, really just black and brown people to a prison in El Salvador. And what did we see today? Hey, you need to go buy, you know, build five more of them. You could really buy this in a lot of people your way. You know, whether it's, you know, the five more of them. Korea's about to send a lot of people your way. You know, whether it's, you know, the head of Black History Museum at the Smithsonian, whether it's the Joint Chiefs of Staff, whether it's, you know, an insured Black person here,

Black America's under attack by this Trump administration, and people better get more prepared than they are now because if you think the last three months have been crazy, you got another 21 months to go at least before you opportunity to put a hard stop and break to this thing yeah and again if people want to just sort of just keep playing games and keep acting like this is no big deal we're going to see more and more stories like this repeatedly all right folks uh today in Today in Houston, George Foreman was laid to rest. A huge turnout at the Wortham Center to

recognize the Houston native, of course, two-time heavyweight boxing champion of the world who later went on to be a major, major pitchman of products in the country. Here is one of the tributes at today's funeral. Good morning. First, I'd like to thank Joan and the family for allowing me to say a few words about George. George was boxing when I met him, but I never knew George the boxer. I only knew George as the man. People always ask me, how did you meet George? We grew up in the same neighborhood, so most, oh, you grew up with no George.

Five years younger than me. He was a little boy when I was growing up. But when I met George, I came to understand that George was pure. A lot of people, and even he says when he was young, he was a bad boy but I realized George was never a bad boy when he was young he was a good boy who did bad things

he says he was converted he was converted. George was always good. He just learned who he really was. He learned his foundation. How did I meet George? George started giving me money when I was dean of the law school. Didn't know him, never met him, get checks in the mail. When I became president, George gave me a large contribution to the university. I called Nancy, the person that I'd been communicating with all these years, and I said, Nancy, I have to meet George.

I have to talk to George. I have to personally thank him for all the contributions he's made to Texas Southern University. And she said the only way George will meet you if you come to church. If you come to church he And at that time, Nancy didn't know that I made a contract with myself. At 19 years old, I walked out of the church. So for the rest of my life, I had to explain to people I didn't need God. I left the church because I couldn't deal with all the hypocrisy in the church

but I went to George sermon went to church heard him preach we talked afterwards I really liked what he said and so I went back

the next Sunday. Another very, very moving sermon for me. So that Wednesday, my secretary buzzed me. She said, George Foreman is here to see you. I said, George Foreman? She said, yes. So George came in and I said, George Foreman? She said, yes. So George came in and I said, George, you know, I'm not always in my office. I have meetings.

I'm out of town. I said, in order to make sure that I'm here, it might be a good idea if you make an appointment. He said, you didn't make an appointment when you came to church. So that's how our friendship started. I want to do two things. First, I want to read something scriptured from the Bible. I know it's not church, but this is what brought George and I together. Now, this encounter that Jesus had with the Pharisees, it said Matthew, Luke, and John. Alright? I always

tell people, my name is James Matthew Dugby, so I like to count in Matthew. And so that's what I'm going to read for you. 22nd chapter, Matthew 36 through the 40th verse. And one of the Pharisees said to Jesus, Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind.

This is the first of the great commandments. And the second is, likened to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. That's how George lived his life. And I realized that's what I was looking for. You know, I know a lot of people in the church said, why did the president of the university start just coming to our church?

I started coming to the church because I finally found somebody who believed like me. Religion and Christianity shouldn't be complex it's just two simple things love God and love thy fellow man I know Michael Harris always talk about George being

the love man because he preached love all the time that's what this life is all about. It's all about love. And George was pure because George lived and believed what he preached. So that's how George and I became friends. George was always volunteering me to do things. I had to explain to Natalie because I kept bugging her.

I said, Natalie, I'm bugging you because your father somehow told everybody if you want to talk to me, you got to go through Douglass first. So everybody blows me up every time they wanted something from George. But those of you old enough to remember, when AIDS was really big, when AIDS first started, it was really ravishing the African-American community. But because AIDS was first identified as a gay disease, most African-Americans stayed away from it. So George came to me and he said, look, he said, I want to do something for the NAACP. He said, I'm making a lot of money, and I want to make sure I don't want to be like other

athletes. I know that I'm making a lot of money because of people like Martin Luther King, the NAACP, and so I want to contribute something to the NAACP. So George ended up contributing $200,000. And at the meeting, he asked me to read this. And I'm going to read you what he asked me to read. It's very short. But it shows what George was all about. And it says, My brothers and sisters in the struggle with the ushering in

of a new millennium and century and so this is 2000. The easiest thing for a successful man to say is, look what I've done. As if we accomplished everything by ourselves. And for the

most part, history is like that. I too have accomplished a lot. But with the help of God, my fellow man, and most importantly, with the aid of the NAACP. NAACPers are among the bravest of them all, those who put their lives on hold, their families in danger, and their love of

American freedom first. So that I and so many other younger black Americans can say, look what I have done. To the NAACP, I say thank you. That was George. That was George. George gave money to a lot of different organizations. You wouldn't believe it. But the thing

that brought me to George was his love for God and his love for everybody else on the face of this earth. He's a wonderful man. Thank you. Folks, that was James Douglas, former president of Texas Southern University and former head of the Thurgood Marshall School of Law

there at TSU. And so we live streamed that whole service. If you want to see that, go to the Blackstone Network YouTube feed or our Blackstone Network app to actually check all of that out. break. We come back. We got a fascinating interview with a book author, folks. And we really talk about some really critical information. And again, first of all, let's be real clear. We're now living in the age where you can't even read books about black people. But Sandy Hudson and I talked about her book, which is called Defund Black Lives, Policing and Safety for All. And she talks about defund the police and why that is a phrase that we should not be afraid of

and should not run away from. That conversation is next right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the other side of change, we're going to examine how foreign policy impacts domestic policy and how domestic policy impacts foreign policy. We are all intertwined and we're going to have Hannah Reed help us break down that topic. We should not want our country to be the big bad wolf of the globe because that puts us in a really vulnerable position safety wise as well. Only on the other side of change on the Black Star Network. Hey, I'm Antonique Smith. Hey, I'm Arnaz J. Hi, this is Cheryl Lee Ralph, and you are watching Roland Martin, unfiltered.

I mean, could it be any other way? Really, it's Roland Martin. Sandy, if there's one thing that has been volatile, that has been outrageous, wild, crazy, you name it, over the last five years. It has been this phrase, defund the police. The right has used it to demonize Democrats. Democrats have run from it left and right. And a lot of people literally have no idea what the true intent was and what the meaning was. And it's one of those things that when the right took hold of it, it is still a potent, potent phrase today that they've used to weaponize and berate the left,

progressives, African-Americans with? You could not be more right. But, you know, I want to push back on them not really knowing what it means. I think they do know what it means. I think they just don't like it. The phrase to defund the police, what we're talking about is really removing resources from the police and putting them into services that would actually make our communities safer and more secure. And when I say that they're being disingenuous, I mean, like, look at the way that some folks on the right will talk about defunding NPR. And we don't see the same sort of, what do they mean? What are they talking about with that kind of phrasing?

Because they know exactly what it means. I just think that there is a disrespect for black organizers and also that they just don't like the policy demand that the phrase points to. But you even have African-Americans who have reacted in a volatile way to the phrase. And I remember covering this from the beginning. And what you laid out was exactly what we talked about. What we talked about was when folks said defund the police, they were talking about how do you redirect resources.

In San Francisco, one of the things that they did was they did their analysis of people who were impacted by police actions that when there's a mental health issue, you're sending police. We examine on my show the shooting death of Kojima Powell, the young brother. This is after Michael Brown's death. And I think we played on the show and I timed it and I believe it was 16 seconds from the moment the police door opened to when the first shot rang out. It was literally 16 seconds. The case in Dallas, I can't remember the young man's name, but the mother calls and he's having a mental health episode and he's playing with the screwdriver and she opens the

door and she walks out and the police are there and then they're put the weapon put it down put it down and he's literally playing with it he's not lunging at them next thing we know shots fired he's dead uh and what people who argue about defund the police they say we should be sending mental health experts on those calls and not cops who are trained or some who are trained to shoot first, ask questions later. 100%. I couldn't agree with you more. I tell a number of additional stories in the book about incidents like this, where people are going through some sort of crisis and require support, require help. But right now, in most jurisdictions,

and some places have started to change this, have started to take some resources that were previously going to the police and using it to create a different sort of mental health emergency service. And that's what people need in those moments. But for most places, all they have access to in a crisis

is the police showing up, and they are not equipped to deal with mental health crises. One of the stories I tell in the book is when I was in Toronto doing some activist work. After a vigil we held for Abdirahman Abdi, who was killed by Ottawa police in 2016. You know, we were exiting the vigil that we held. We were exiting the venue.

And the venue was surrounded by police officers because at that time the police were following us all around the city, even though it was a really somber event. And, you know, we exit the venue into the night and a black man came running down the street and he was screaming or wailing, just inconsolable it looked like. And the police who had been there to really surveil us, they hopped on their bikes, they took out their batons, they took out their tasers and they started running after this guy. And myself and my colleagues, we also started running after him to try to make sure that the police wouldn't harm him. He collapses on the ground. Two of the organizers kind of hold him, collapse on top

of him to hold him. And myself and another organizer, we kind of step in between the police and this man and say, what are you doing? And they've got their batons out and their tasers and they are threatening us with arrests for obstructing justice. And we were like, what did this man do? We don't understand. And just then a friend of his comes running down the street, a woman, she's very confused to see all of these police officers. And she says to us, you know, his mother just died in his arms down the street and he couldn't console himself. And he ran out of the building just crying. Now, did this man need police officers to respond? I don't think so. And I often wonder what would have happened to him that night had we not been there to intervene. And I think

that these types of stories are really all too frequent and can sometimes result in, as you've just mentioned, far worse consequences. So let's just be real clear. The horse has left the barn. The bottom line is they have effectively weaponized this phrase. Political politicians who are supportive of the call have been running left and right. You had some, like the woman who's running for governor of Virginia on the Democratic side, I'm still shocked nobody actually even opposed her in the primary. Spanberger was the one loudly complaining that, oh, this is one of the reasons why we lost some House seats in 2022. And I'm sitting there going, and actually AOC made a comment like, no, some of these people lost because they actually ran horrible races.

And and so and so with with what we know has taken place over the last five years, how what is it now? I mean, at the end of the day, you know, they've they've they've destroyed what the intent of the phrase is. So, OK, what do we say now? What is the rallying cry? How do we now reframe this, restart this, whatever you want to call it? Honestly, I think what we are in right now is a backlash period, right? And we see these backlash periods happen after monumentally successful moments in Black movement organizing. And that's what we're in right now. And I think that the most important thing that we can do is make sure that we are well-educated on what we are talking about and what we need for our communities and that we continue to speak truth to power. And that's why I thought it was really important to put out this book and unapologetically call it Defund, because what we are calling for is actually it just makes sense. our governments unable to properly resource the services that we need in order to create

safe communities, then, you know, we have a problem. I mean, you think about the safest places you can go to in any of our communities. Are they teeming with cops? No, they're not. And by and large, police officers, you know, they're wielding violence and they're making our communities less safe. And so I think we need to be clear-eyed when we say, you know, this is a massive problem that is most urgent for our community. And we need to be unapologetic about saying it does not make sense to give more money to the police. We need to take those resources away from the police and put it into services that will actually help keep us safe. Where are you from? I'm from Toronto, Canada, and I am based

in Los Angeles, California. The reason I ask that because, again, you say starting early schools. You said, I attended public schools in Toronto during the 1990s and early 2000s. So I didn't want to assume that you were born there or born here, but went there for other reasons. But you said, I never had cops in my schools. There was the odd fight between kids, but by and large, my elementary and junior high schools felt very safe, perhaps exceptionally so. The reality is, and I think anytime there's any conversation, I'm all about, you know,

how do you look backwards? There's a phrase in television, we call it back timing, that when you do a television show, you don't start it, you don't build the show at zero to 60, you actually build it 60 to zero. Back timing. And to me, when we talk about this very issue, we have to back time. We have to literally say, okay, you have to literally go back. How did police start in this country? And they started slave patrols. And the reality is this America is a violent country. America was created through violence. It was created through war. The idea of how do you grow America? Violence. And the reaction in this country, the reaction to anything, crime goes up, more cops, more cops, more cops.

When the reality is, police actually don't prevent crime. That's right. They don't. That's not what their job is. Their job is to curtail, to then, after something happens, apprehend whoever committed the crime, but it's actually not.

Death penalty does not stop people from committing murder. It doesn't. It doesn't. So that is the reality. So if we're talking about having to reimagine, that's what Kim Gilman, restart, whatever you want to call it. Who is doing this concept? Who is doing it well? Who can we say, look, and no disrespect,

and it has to be in the United States. It can't be in some other country. Who in this country, what city, what county, what town are effectively doing this and we can then say, here is an example if they are doing this and it has resulted in positive results. Yeah, the origins of policing are, as you say, and I write about this in the book, are very violent and it all has its root in enslavement, certainly, in the United States.

I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people,

real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers

Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got Be Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz

Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. In the Caribbean, in Canada, and the United Kingdom, it was actually all really related, and it still is. And I think that that history, I hope that when people read the book, that that really gives them a lot of context for one, how young policing is. It's a really kind of a young idea, which I think means that it can certainly be transformed. And also just how violent it was always meant to be. And that it's coupling with the idea of safety and security is even more recent and is like a magnificent term that policing was able to do in like the 1940s around. And so where are they doing it well? Well, here's the thing, right? Like I actually don't think that policing itself is the solution

for safety and security. So where are they doing policing? Well, there's no answer to that. But I do know that in Arizona, in Oregon, there are these programs where they started to, again, resource different sorts of services that are working quite well. So services for homeless folks, for example, that have nothing to do with police response, nothing to do with corralling people up and arresting them and responding to them in a carceral way, but actually giving them resources that they need

to respond to the needs of homeless people that is better for the entire community. And also there are a number of resources for people who might have addiction problems that lead, that can lead to issues with criminality or with homelessness and so on. Treating that like a public health issue and responding to folks' needs from a public health perspective, seeing it as a health issue rather than as a criminal issue, also is much safer for everybody in the community rather than forcing people to engage in underground economies that can become really unsafe.

And so I think, just like you've said, you know, we need to focus on prevention of violence, prevention of harms in our communities, rather than these kind of gotcha moments that really don't do anything, have nothing to do with crime rates. Another example would be how we engage with traffic stops. It's a choice to have the police engage in high-speed chases or stopping people on the highway to try to investigate them. And we have very little rights when it comes to that. But there are safer ways to make sure that we are safe on the roads, whether it's the way that we do infrastructure or having civilian responses to issues with how vehicles organize themselves on the streets in

residential communities. All of these things have been tried in multiple places all over the United States with success and outside the United States as well. And so, you know, these are proven strategies, and I name a number of others in the book as well, that can be implemented, but they require resourcing. And if we are serious about trying to prevent crime, rather than, you know, always just throwing more money at the police, whether crime is going up or down, the solution always seems to be to throw more money at the police. If we're serious about preventing harm, preventing violence,

you know, that's what we'll do. We begin tonight with the people who are really running the country right now. Trump is often wrong and misleading about a lot of things, but especially about history. Donald Trump falling in line with President Elon Musk. In the wake of the unsettling news that MSNBC has canceled Joy Ann Reid's primetime show, The Readout, Roland Martin and the Black Star Network would like to extend an invitation to all of the fans of Joy Ann Reid's MSNBC show to join us every night to watch Roland Martin Unfiltered streaming on the Black Star Network for news, discussion of the issues that matter to you

and the latest updates on the twice impeached, criminally convicted felon-in-chief Donald Trump and his unprecedented assault on democracy, as well as co-president Elon Musk's takeover of the federal government. The Black Star Network stands with Joy Ann Reid and all folks who understand the power of black voices in media. We must come together and never forget that information is power. Be sure to watch Roland Martin Unfiltered weeknights, 6 p.m. Eastern at youtube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin or download the Blackstar Network app.

See, I think we have to, the issue that we have to put on the table, and it's real, and that is, even when you factor in race, I mean, look at the last election, 71% of the electorate was white. And the reality is, when it comes to campaigns, a potent political weapon, crime, crime, crime. Absolutely. Scare white voters. But here's what happens, though. But it also is equally effective for black voters because black folks is about typically,

if you have an African-American, high crime in the neighborhood, you want to feel safe. And so but our view and reaction to police is actually different because it comes down to trust. The reality is white people in America really, really, really trust the police. Black people want to be safe. We necessarily trust in the police. But what ends up happening, though, is our reaction, though, is the same. We want protection. So now you're up against a battle. And the battle you're up against is what you're trying to do in terms of for safety of this book is how do you get over that hurdle that this thing is so locked into the minds of white people, black people and others that, hey, we need more cops, spend more money. When you look at these city budgets, 50, 60, 70 percent is going to police and fire the total budget.

So, okay, how then do we start to begin that change? Because it actually has to start here. And that is, I mean, look, look what happened in San Francisco. What we talked about, they actually tried to shift these resources. The attack on the city council, the mayor, London and Breed, no longer the mayor. You saw what happened where they recalled the district attorney in San Francisco. They recalled the sister in Alameda County in Oakland, tried to recall the DA in LA. Now you have the attack on the George Soros-funded prosecutors. They've been attacking Krasner in Philadelphia because they're like, let's stop locking people up. Oh, they're attacking Cash Bale. And so everything that has come out of the

defund the police movement, they're attacking as this is why crime is going up and this is why businesses are leaving. And that is a potent force to contend with. So how do we restart, reengage this discussion? Really, really important question. It is so clear to me that we have to decouple the idea of safety and policing. And of course, people want to be safe in their communities. we have to decouple the idea of safety and policing. And of course, people want to be safe in their communities. And that's what they're responding to. You know, when they, when,

even when we hear these reactions to defund the police, that may not be as malicious as some of the reactions I was describing before, where people are a little bit confused, you know, like what is this, how can you say that? The confusion is coming from this idea that police equals safety. We have to decouple that idea.

You know, I talk about some of the hard facts, the numbers in the book. You know, how often are police solving these cases? Or, I mean, we don't even really have those numbers. How often are police laying a charge in a case of, like, a robbery or an arson or a fire? Very often less than 15%. What sort of service is able to fail so consistently like that and continue to get funding? It's outrageous. And so we really have to see policing as a service that we have tried to use to respond to safety that isn't working.

But I do think, you know, as you say, it's such a powerful tool for politicians. You know, if they are able to say we'll be tough on crime, which every politician does every single election cycle, but nobody seems to be able to solve the issue of safety, right? No one seems to be able to say, well, I've done that. I've been successful on that front. I mean, it benefits them to be able to say every year, I'm going to be tough on crime. I'm going to be tough on crime. It's so easy to say something like that and to be able to say it again and again and again. And these specific issues that you've pointed to, where we're seeing, again, this backlash period,

all of these programs that have been started and even trying to be pulled away, the program that I mentioned in Oregon is one of them. It is just miraculous to me that policing has had about 150 years to fail consistently in providing safety to our communities over and over and over again. We end up in these cycles of dealing with police corruption or violence. I mean, the earliest police report that I read talking about how they needed to fix issues with policing was from the late 1700s. And I mean, the cycle of issues continues unabated. It's had over a century to fail again and again. And we try something new for, you know, how long does it take to set up a service? It takes some time to set it up. We try something new for, what, the last three-ish years in response to 2020, and people are already trying to tear them down.

You need to give these things. First of all, not even already. I mean, look, I have been laying out to people like this period that we're in. Well, first of all, you know, George Floyd is murdered on May 25th, 2020. And I was literally saying, you know, after that, with the protests, we saw the response from corporate America. We saw all these different things. And I did my best to try to frame this so people could understand. I was calling it, and I still call it, the third Reconstruction.

And the first Reconstruction obviously followed slavery. The second Reconstruction obviously followed slavery. Second Reconstruction followed. Yeah, you had Brown versus Board of Education in 54, but it really was the lynching of Emmett Till in 1955. But I called the Second Reconstruction, which went from 55 to 68. So I call this the first Reconstruction, the second Reconstruction, they did not contend with the money issue. And I said the third one, I said secondly, the other failure Reconstruction period at 20, it really was 10, I call it 10 to 12 years, because you go from 65 to the Great Compromise of 1877, which ushers in Jim Crow. The issue for me was, and I kept warning people, I said, guys, we got to keep our

foots on their net, because if you look at the history of a white... I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1,

Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.

We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

America, they are going to, all right, we've done enough very quickly. And it was happening in, of course, 2021, the implosion of Black Lives Matter, the attacks on Black Lives Matter. 2022, we saw with the election, it was all about critical race theory. Then 2023, it was woke. In 2024, it was dei and i remember being on a panel at the naacp image awards and i was like just just going hard i'm like guys i'm like i said this thing is about to be over yeah they were so like damn bro calm down i was like no you don't understand i'm telling you this thing is

happening before our very eyes yes keep playing around i around. I said, I'm telling y'all. And literally the chair of the NAACP was sitting not even 15 feet in front of me. And I said, I'm telling y'all this thing is about to end. I said, these people and folks were just sort of like, yeah, okay. And I'm like, and so I think what, what happened was too many of us got so comfortable with some of these donations. And look, BLM got $90 million. Urban League got more than $100 million. NAACP got more than $100 million as well. I said, but that was a drop in the bucket.

I said, I'm telling you, the backlash is coming. And the reality is, here we are. Here we are in the fifth year, five years after George Floyd was the first black movement in American history where a majority of Americans agreed with. And white forces said, oh, hell no, we cannot have this. And I just think a lot of us, including a lot of activists, did not fully comprehend how vicious the backlash was going to be. I think you're right. I think that we were not prepared for the extent of this backlash. But it's history.

It was sitting right there. I think you're right. You know what? I knew there was going to be a backlash myself. In part, that's why I started writing this book. So I was like, we're going to need to have some of this stuff written down before, you know, they start to really attack it. But I, you know, I think that all of the institutions that supported that movement. january 20th and i said they want to completely eradicate the entire black civil rights economic rights social justice infrastructure yeah that's right to eradicate all of it because they saw

what happened all that work all that work i'll, civil rights movement, then you go 70s, 80s, 90s, Jenna Six, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, all of that. They said, oh, hell no, we got to kill all of this. Yeah. And they're starting like right from education, right? They're going after institutions. They're going after the things that they think, you know, started when, when folks were young, they're going after knowledge. They're going, they don't want young white kids reading this. That's exactly right. And I think, you know, it is important in this time, you know, people are afraid, people are nervous. And I understand that there are, there's a lot at stake, you know,

potentially deporting citizens at this point, let alone folks who are migrants. And that's a huge, huge risk that people can be taking when they're speaking out. And that's a huge, huge risk that people can be taking when they're speaking out. And that makes people feel isolated. And I think history also tells us that one of the best things that we can do in moments where we are feeling isolated is to connect with our community and to make sure that we are working together because they're coming for us, whether we respond or not. So we might as well speak truth to power. Yeah. And, you know, I'm so grateful for your show because I really do think that you do that consistently. I was I when you were mentioning activists earlier, I and I hate. First of all, I don't like to other people say it, but I don't. But I do understand spiritual gifts and things that those things and being able to see things before they happen. And I remember there were some activists. If I named them, they are very well known. And during this during the period after Michael Brown, this was Fergus and all of this team Several of them had posted some funding efforts, contributing.

And I remember hitting them and I said, hey, do not do this individually. You need to be doing this through institutions so you're not targeted tax-wise. And then with some who were like, who the hell are you? And I'm like, I'm trying to tell y'all i said this has always been the way they went after black black activists i said through taxes so then we begin to have other conversations i begin to talk to other people and i kept talking about infrastructure infrastructure infrastructure infrastructure and i remember i was in this really intense conversation with some young brothers and sisters. And I said, listen, I said,

I'm not trying to be an older person and tell you what to do. I said, but I do understand history. And I said, you can criticize. There are rightful critiques of the NAACP, of the national urban, of other institutions. I said, but guess what? They're still here. I said, SNCC is not here. I said, we could talk about COINTELPRO. We could talk about all those things. I said, but the reality is there's something to be said about black institutions that are still here. I said, please focus on infrastructure.

I said, because you might burn out if the organization is still there. I remember I was having interviews and I was talking to BLM leaders and I was like, I don't understand y'all infrastructure. I said, I don't understand your hierarchy. And folks were talking about, oh, no, we like to have consensus. I was like, guys, I mean, no disrespect. Let's say ladies and gents, that shit don't work. I said, you have to have hierarchy. I occupied Wall Street. I was like, y'all, all that, you know, I said, I get the collaborative process, but you still got to have hierarchy. Folks were not thinking if we're going to build something, it needs to last more than five years or more than 10 years or needs to last beyond this really inspirational individual. And I think the struggle we're in right now is five years after George Floyd's death, multiple years after Michael Brown, Eric Garner, whatever, that movement is so fractured.

And now you go, OK, well, where are folks? Well, people are doing individual things. But the power of that movement was that it operated eventually as a collective. And I just think that this is where this still is. It is a problem. And then you have people who were like, well, man, voting shit don't matter. And I'm sitting there going, you cannot do this. It was a young brother, I'll never forget, he goes,

man, politics don't mean shit, so I'm going to march. And I said, marching without voting is going for a walk. They go hand in hand. You can't change policy if you don't change the politicians and there's voting. And that's where that infrastructure comes in. And I just think that is the, that still is what just, ooh, it irks me because a lot of folks just didn't understand the infrastructure was needed to sustain the movement. Look, I take your critique. I really do. I agree with you on a lot of what you've just said. I think that there is a way that we sometimes can fall into a trap of like, this is the only way of

doing something when we should be using all the resources available to us. And I, you know, and I look at the right and how much they focused on gerrymandering voting districts and trying to make sure that votes don't count. It tells me that there's something strategic about engaging in that way. Oh, yes. But I also, you know, the other thing that I want to say about that period, because, you know, I was around in all of that organizing as well

since 2013, 2014. I do think that there were folks who knew that we needed to have an infrastructure. But I am curious about what we're going to learn about infiltration and attempts at will often send folks in to try to destroy our movements surreptitiously. hatred on the streets a horrific scene white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence white people are losing their damn lives there's an angry pro-trump mob storm to the u.s capital we're about to see the rise of what i call white minority resistance we have seen There's an angry pro-Trump mob storm to the U.S. Capitol. We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting.

I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at every university calls white rage as a backlash. This is the rise of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. There's all the Proud Boys, guys. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people.

The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. I keep going back to April 3rd, 1968, Dr. King's final sermon at Mason Temple. When he says in the sermon, black people 3rd, 1968, Dr. King's final sermon at Mason Temple. When he says in the sermon, black people individually, we are poor, but collectively we are wealthy. We represent one of the largest economies in the world. And he says we have to move as a collective. And then as a result of that, you take that concept and then say, okay, in order to have a movement, it can't be a singular person. It can't be a singular organization. It has to be, has to be a collective. And so when I look at, when we talk about still, how do we change policing? Everything, everything was so, I remember having a conversation with somebody and they were

talking about, it was sort of like an aha moment when for years it was mass incarceration, mass incarceration, and everything was about going to D.C. And then finally somebody was like, the person who changes it really is the district attorney, not Congress, not the Supreme Court, not the president, not judges, not governors, not legislators. The person who is at the beginning stages of mass incarceration is the district attorney, and that person determines what kind of crimes you prosecute. And people then begin to realize, and then you begin to see these progressive DAs elected

because folks are like, yo, that's it right there. And, but, but that also again was collective. That was the organization mobilization. And when you talk about, again, Black Lives Policing and Safety for All, I just fundamentally believe that the only way this can be achieved is if folk begin to say, we have to mobilize and organize our power, elect the people, even if they don't use the phrase defund the police, but their policies are how do we now shift resources, but that cannot be done if we keep our asses on the couch. It just, it's not going to happen. No, you're, you are so right. Like, I think, you know, that, that, that piece that you just identified with the DAs and the progressive DAs, it's like, yes, like that is, that is a piece of the pie that needed

to be focused on. And also a piece of the pie is like what we call a crime like there are some behaviors that are criminal that shouldn't be and where do we focus there you know that's uh who's making uh who's making the decisions about what's a crime and sometimes that's at a federal level and sometimes that's at a state level you know like we need to focus there as well and we need to get our communities um uh informed and mobilized on that stuff. So that's the, okay, let's try to see if we can get people marching in the streets, or let's try to see if we can, you know, get books like this out into the community so people can read and find out more information about it.

You know, we have to be engaged on so many different levels. And sometimes I do, you know, I take your critique. There's, there's a way that we can get too focused on one way of doing things when we really just got to be everywhere. That's where success is. See, I don't, see, I don't, I don't mind collect, I don't mind collective conversations. I don't mind being collaborative, But at the end of the day, and this is where, again, this was the beauty of King. The thing was, you still have to have somebody who, I mean, one of the things that he would do is he would sit there and he would, the NAACP would have their say and CORE would have their say and SNCC would have their say and the National Council of Negro Women had their say. And the beauty of him was listening to all different people, affirming all different people, and then say, this is how we got to go.

And I think what happens is a lot of times we get stuck on the conversation piece. But it's still like, okay, when are we about to go? And so I think that when I look at this, I still go back to, okay, how do we do it? Where do we start? How do we do it? And when I hear the people go, oh, man, you a shield for the Democrats, I'm very simple. I'm like, no, I'm focused on black people. The reality is this will never happen through a Republican Party.

Facts. It is not. I don't give a damn. It's not going to party. Facts. It is not. I don't give a damn what anybody, you can see it in here, it's not going to happen. Facts. Now, somebody could say it's too many soft Democrats, it's too many Democrats who buckle when they get criticized with pressure. But the reality is, through a political prism, there's only one party where this is going to be done through, which now means that what has to happen is, again, we have to be electing people who we believe can actually make this happen. And I just think that from an activist standpoint, there were a lot of people who were boohooing voting and say it doesn't matter and we just have

to organize our people. I'm like, yeah, but if you leave out the voting aspect, you can't change policy. I just don't understand how some people think it's going to happen without that happening. Like, I just don't. I just, like, it has to happen. And so that to me is just where we are. From an activist standpoint, where are we today in terms of, because you talk about people being scared. Where are we? Where is that energy? Where is that, Where is it happening?

I know things happen locally, but are you seeing folks say, you know, we've got to now rise back up? Are you seeing that actually happen? I mean, look at this weekend, right? Like this this last weekend that just passed by where there were actions. Indivisible, indivisible. Yes, that's right. You know, so I think that people are, again, people are, are terrified and they're kind of on their back foot, but the, the, the actions are, I think, inevitable. Now, how organized those actions are going to be is up to us activists to make that happen. Now, I think when it comes to... Hold on, I don't want you to run past that. So what you just said was

the indivisible marches on that Saturday, that's called mobilization. That's right. What happens Monday after the mobilization is organization. That's right. Oh my God. People who don't understand that, just explain that.

So, you know, when we get into the streets and we are making fervor righteously about an issue, that is mobilizing people, getting people out into the street and demonstrating that people are angry and people want to do something about it. What we need to do with all of that energy is move it into organizing, and that is setting ourselves up appropriately to respond and to organize and out-organize the right on all of the things that they're doing. And that would mean things like placing people to

focus on the law, placing people to focus on electoral, placing people to focus on creating programs within communities where they don't exist and where the government is failing us, placing people in education, in all of the different, in religious institutions, in all of the different institutions that can have an impact on what these services, what we're calling for, how we can shift and change them. And again, we need to be everywhere. And I think, you know, you mentioned that period in 2021, 2022, when Black Lives Matter activists were really being focused on and targeted. I think that that really terrified people. I do. I think that, you know, especially because there was very little support for the individuals who were being targeted in particular.

You know, it's very hard. I think part of the strategy from right-wing media in that regard was to try to make it so that it's difficult for people to take up that mantle because they don't want to be targeted. And, and I think we're going through a period right now where people are going to have to look at themselves and ask, you know, am I going to make that right-wing campaign successful, that fearfulness, or am I going to say no? It's worth it for us to figure out, to organize the support that we need for people to be able to take those steps. Hello, I'm Isaac Hayes III, founder and CEO of Fanbase. Listen to what I'm about to tell you. The window to invest in Fanbase is closing.

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And I called and I cussed them out. And they were like, damn, damn bro, why are you going off? I said, cause here's my problem. You have a plan of action. I remember this. I was hot. I was pissed. I said, you have a plan of action. I remember this. I was hot. I was pissed. I said, you have a plan of action that you

gave to the New York Times first and you ain't come talk to black people first. I said, don't give it to the New York Times and then you don't come to us and then when you don't get the reaction that you want, then you call us.

I said, no, you need black people first. I said, bring that to us. The late George Curry, he was highly critical of the National Urban League for a very long time. Because whenever they would release their State of Black America report, they would give the embargo copy to the Associated Press. And they wanted the Associated Press, and they wanted the Associated Press to run it, and it goes all across the country. And Georgia's like, why in the hell you're not giving it to the Black newspapers? And that's also, I think, so when you're talking about how do you have that protection of organization and leaders, what I keep saying is you have to lock down your base first. You have to have

your relationships with black-owned media, black radio, newspapers, digital operations. So when the attack comes there, and it's going to come in mainstream, you already have your relationships over here to respond to the attack there were a lot of folk who ignored us in black owned media and then when they started getting attacked then they called we like but where y'all been and see that's the lesson of organization and strategy truly truly and it's you know i do think that some people do confuse them, mobilization and organization, and think it's the same thing, and it's not. And you really have to do both in order to have success when you are pushing against a system that is, it is, it is designed to be difficult to, to change. You have to have all your ducks in a row. It's not easy. It requires a lot of talent and skill and people. And, you know, again, these critiques

are well taken. Two questions. Two questions left. Do you believe, when you, okay, we were just talking about organizing mobilizers. So in order to do this, do you believe that one of the problems, one of the problems with the new organizations that were created is that they were leader-driven organizations that had no membership? And what I mean by that is... I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

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Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all

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Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm right now thinking of several that they are organizations, but they have four or five or six leaders, but there's no way to become a member, which means your generals don't have troops. So if you are a person who says, I want to get involved. Where do I join? So you're in that space. If there's somebody who's watching and listening and they say, you know what? I love what Sandy has to say. I want to join one of these organizations.

Who can you join? I think it depends. I think it depends on the type of organization and what... Give me a couple. Like, who can somebody right now say, you know what, I can actually join the organization. Not show up at an event, but join the organization. Just give me a couple so people know who I can hit up. Well, there's a lot of local organizations, and I don't want to speak for, for the different organizations, but what I, but what I mean by it depends is again, this, this thing that I was talking about before with respect to infiltration and agitation, right? So if you are doing something, um, that may be on the more radical, uh, and direct action type of, uh, mobilization, which I think is really important. It might not be the best idea to have

it open to membership where anyone can join because that can be manipulated. But if what you are doing is trying to shift, you know, how a DA is acting in a particular jurisdiction, I think it makes sense to have members because you need to pull in as many people as possible into that strategy. So again, it depends on the mandate, what the strategy is. And so often people think that there's only one way to do things, you know, and I think it is just so critical for us to remember that our strategy has to fit the goal, our strategy has to fit the mandate, and so too do our institutions and how we're designing them. So, absolutely, because I do believe micro macro. So, we have the litany of local organizations. That's right. Is there a national entity, and I'm thinking of how SNCC was operated, that sort of serves as an umbrella that is able to bring these folks together to be able to meet, to understand, well, if y'all are in Charlotte and you're in El Paso and you're

in Los Angeles and you're in Miami and you're in Mobile, to be able to learn from each other, collaborate, listen, join forces. So do you believe that that's a missing piece? Because what you're laying out here is a local strategy, but it's also a national plan. Yes, that's right. How then do those, how do those collection of local people gather and talk? Is there an entity that's focused on that, pulling those disparate local groups together? And, okay, I think that this is also very, very important because I think engaging with each other in person too, not just over the internet,

is like a big missing piece as well. I think that different organizations have tried that. Certainly, you know, the Black Lives Matter, the Movement for Black Lives are two that have had gatherings bringing people together from all over America and beyond in some cases. I don't think that there's a group that's doing that consistently right now. And I do think that that is a challenge for us to try to engage in this moment. And I think that that would be something

that could only benefit the organizing that we need to do, to shift the conditions that exist right now that make it really difficult for us to organize effectively. A last question I ask this of all book authors, that is, when writing the book, when researching the book, when doing interviews for the book, what was your wow moment was there something that you came across where even you went oh shit this is crazy i had a few moments with that this book but i'll say the thing that i thought was the wildest was all of these like reports that tend to, to, to, to happen after, um, uh, a, an awful heinous example of police violence. Um, you know, the governments will say, well,

we need to study that. You know, we got the NAF commission, for example. Um, uh, those go back to like 1795. And those reports read almost exactly the same every time. Like the first one that I think I recalled that was like, maybe we need more black police officers is like from 1895. And it's the same thing from 1795 to today that is being repeated. Like we need to try to change this, this, and this, like the first time I saw, we need to have some sort of review board to review the police. It's from the late 1700s. I mean, I was like, wow. So this is even, even the, the, the, the sort of response of has been going on. Wow. That, that,

that is a wow. I didn't even realize that. That's crazy. So from the outset, from the outset, there were problems. There were problems. They were like, these people are too violent and they're also corrupt

and we need to have somebody to review them. And it's been that way literally from the very beginning wow yeah that is a yep i think that would be a wow yeah very well that would qualify for a while well uh i i am hopeful i am hopeful that um that not just regular ordinary people but but activists really really look at this because the issue is still there. It's still at the front. And I am, I'm constantly repeating myself on the show when I talk about organizing and mobilizing, but also data collection, because you got to be able to reach people. Like I can't stand people, like, I don't know. I know when I looked at their Web site, I know Indivisible, they had email and zip code. But I think one of the greatest mistakes that we often make is that we have events, we have protests, we have marches.

We don't do data collection. You need to know who those people are so and later boom because see what i keep and i and and and and i it's so funny i had this big big argument because this person was like rolling you're not a you're not an organizer you you know you're a journalist and i'm like i said my parents were co-founders of a civic club i said so at the age of nine and ten i said i i said i was there when he had the meetings. I said, I was like, well, hell, he was sitting right there. I said, so I was listening. I remember traveling with my mom to rallies in the state Capitol and I'm sitting here watching this. And what I saw was exactly that. I'm sitting there because you can have a march or a protest, but then when you need people to show up to the city council police committee,

and I covered city council, I sat, I covered those events. And you know what happened? There's no one there. The committee, and then we go to the city council, and what I, I covered city council, county government. And what I discovered all my entire career, we typically will come out after an event has happened. And my deal is you need to, you need to be able to press a button and say, Hey,

city council is having this discussion. I need 50 people to show up. You already have a list to work from. So if you never recorded who the hell showed up, you ain't got nobody to call when you need them to show up. So you're trying to mobilize again. As opposed to use a list. So that's one thing that just drives me crazy. So I'm hopeful that... I can't even tell you,

you cannot imagine how it irks me. You literally have no idea. I've been on calls and I'll be at an event and I'm going, ain't nobody collecting data. I'm like, it's 400 people here and y'all ain't know who the hell here. Y'all ain't got no names, phone numbers,

social media, you ain't got sales. Then they get mad at me and I'm like, okay, nice event, but what you going to do on Monday? I'm like okay nice event but what you gonna do on Monday well hey rolling go again I'm like okay fine all right I'm sorry I'm gonna keep saying it and that was the one thing I will always give them

credit Tamika Mallory Bob Land, Carmen Perez Janae Ingram and Linda Saucer when they were the leaders of the Women's March, how they collected data. Millions around the world, they collected data. And now the people who came after them, the large, the white women, screwed it all up.

And that's why the Women's March ain't shit. And they ain't going to be shit because they ran the uh the black latino muslim white organizers away who understood it but how they did that was brilliant Reverend Bishop William Barber same way they collect data at every event so they can organize them later yeah this is this is like a school your, for your audience. This is how you do it. If you're considering doing it in your local area, you know, that's one of the things you need to do to keep it, to keep it up for the next time that you need to mobilize people, you need to organize. And part of that organizing is collection of contact

information and data. Absolutely. The book is defund black lives policing and safety for all uh by sandy hudson sandy appreciate it a great conversation and hopefully people will read it and will understand that a lot happened after may 25th 2020 and before and but there's more that can still be done and all hope is not lost. Thank you so much. It's great having you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. Black Star Network is here. Oh, no punches! A real revolutionary right now. Thank you for being the voice of Black America. All momentum we have now, we have to keep this going. The video looks phenomenal. See, there's a difference between Black Star Network and Black-owned media and something like CNN.

You can't be Black-owned media and be scared. It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home, you dig? I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man.

We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an iHeart podcast.