#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Fla. State Atty Suspended, Breonna Taylor Cop Pleads Guilty, GA Cops Charges Dropped

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

8.23.2022 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Fla. State Atty Suspended, Breonna Taylor Cop Pleads Guilty, GA Cops Charges Dropped One of the officers connected to the death of Breonna Taylor pleaded guilty today in federal court for lying on the affidavit for the March 2020 search of Breonna's apartment. Two white Georgia officers will not be charged in the June 2020 death of black motorist Rayshard Brooks. The special prosecutor appointed to the case says the officers did nothing wrong.  Florida Governor Ron DeSantis suspends state Attorney Andrew Warren claiming Warren refused to enforce the state laws. Andrew Warren is here to discuss the suspension and his lawsuit to get his job back. The woman appointed by DeSantis to replace Warren reverses a policy that disproportionately targets Black cyclists. I'll talk to the NAACP President of Hillsborough County Florida Branch about biking while black.  A Florida family is remembering their brother on his 37th birthday today. They say he'd be here to celebrate if officers knew how to handle his mental health crisis. Tonight, we'll talk about the tragic case of Samuel Celestin. We'll also talk to a counselor who can shed some light on what needs to be done to keep those in a mental health crisis alive when police get involved.  And in today's Marketplace, an organization that's stepping up to help Black and Brown entrepreneurs secure the bag to start their businesses.  Support RolandMartinUnfiltered and #BlackStarNetwork via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered Venmo ☛https://venmo.com/rmunfiltered Zelle ☛ [e-mail] Annual or monthly recurring #BringTheFunk Fan Club membership via paypal ☛ https://rolandsmartin.com/rmu-paypal/ Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox 👉🏾 http://www.blackstarnetwork.com #RolandMartinUnfiltered and the #BlackStarNetwork are news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Bring your eyeballs home. You dig? It's Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022. I'm Monique Presley sitting in for Roland, who is hanging out in the Bahamas at the Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity Incorporated Grand Boulet. Here's what's coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. One of the officers connected to the death of Breonna Taylor pleaded guilty today in federal court for lying on the affidavit for the March 2020 search of Breonna's apartment. Two white Georgia officers will not be charged in the June 2020 death of black motorist Rayshard Brooks.

The special prosecutor appointed to the case says the officers did nothing wrong. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis suspends state attorney Andrew Warren, claiming Warren refused to enforce the state laws. Andrew Warren is here to discuss the suspension and his lawsuit to get his job back. The woman appointed by DeSantis to replace Warren reverses a policy that disproportionately targets black cyclists. I'll talk to the NAAC president of Hillsborough County, Florida branch about biking while black. A Florida family is remembering their brother on what would have been his 37th birthday today. They say he'd be here to celebrate if officers knew how to handle his mental health crisis. Tonight, we'll talk about the tragic case of Samuel Celestin. We'll also talk to a counselor

who can shed some light on what needs to be done to keep those in a mental health crisis alive when police get involved. And in today's Marketplace, an organization that's stepping up to help black and brown entrepreneurs secure the bag to start their businesses. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered streaming live on it Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling, best believe he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks

He's rolling, yeah Roro, yo. Yeah, yeah. It's rolling, Martin. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Rolling with rolling now. Yeah. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best, you know.

He's rolling, Martin. Now. I'm holding my tab now. My tab. Attorney. For Florida's state attorney, Andrew Warren thought August 4th would be a regular workday, but turned into him getting escorted by an armed deputy who told him Governor Ron DeSantis had suspended him from office. DeSantis says he suspended Warren, whose jurisdiction includes the city of Tampa, for declining to enforce several state laws, including the Sunshine State's 15-week abortion ban. You can't just say you're not going to do certain offenses.

And then most recently, after the Dobbs decision was rendered by the U. Court. He signed a letter saying he would not enforce any laws relating to protecting the right to life in the state of Florida. And mind you, we have had prohibition on third trimester abortions for a long time. We've had prohibitions on partial birth abortions for a long time. And then most recently, the legislature enacted and I signed protections for unborn babies at three and a half months and when they are aborted it's typically done through a dismemberment procedure which is really inhumane nevertheless that is what the legislature has enacted and it's not for him to put himself above that and say that he is not going to enforce the laws

we don't elect people in one part of the state to have veto power over what the entire state decides on these important issues. The Constitution of Florida has vested the veto power in the governor, not in individual state attorneys. And so when you flagrantly violate your oath of office, when you make yourself above the law, you have violated your duty, you have neglected your duty, and you are displaying a lack of competence to be able to reform those duties. And so today, we are suspending State Attorney Andrew Warren effective immediately. While DeSantis says he's seeking Warren's dismissal, Warren is fighting back. He joins us now from Tampa to talk to us about the lawsuit he's filed to be reinstated.

S.A. Warren, welcome so much to Roland Martin Unfiltered. We're glad to have you. Monique, thanks for having me tonight. So tell us, first of all, is there any truth to the claims by the governor that there are laws that are now on the books and are part of what it's the job of the state's attorney for Florida to prosecute that you have dedicated that you will not prosecute. Is that accurate? No, it's not at all. I mean, look, truth had left the building at the governor's press conference from two weeks ago. You know, he just stands up. He lives in a political arena where he can say things that are totally disconnected from reality. I live in a courtroom. I've spent my career as a

prosecutor. I have to say things that are connected to the facts that are based on evidence. So let's talk about the facts. You know, the governor hasn't been able to cite any example of any law that I've declined to follow here. What he's really upset about is that I voiced my opposition to two of his favorite culture war issues, abortion and transgender health care. Now, no case on either of those two issues has ever come before my office. No arrests have ever been made. The first law, the abortion law, was held unconstitutional in the state of Florida. And the second on gender-affirming health care, there is no law in the books. So this has nothing to do with what I've done as state attorney. This is about what I've said and the fact that I'm not kowtowing to the governor like everybody else does in the state. So he's punishing me for purely

political reasons. So what document is he talking about that you signed saying that you were not going to be willing to prosecute or enforce these laws? So there were two letters that I signed with prosecutors from around the country, and they were both on these two separate issues. So regarding abortion, what we said was it was a value statement to say we shouldn't be criminalizing private medical decisions made between women and their doctors. And as a prosecutor, we should be focused on the rapist, not the rape victim. And let's not lose sight of that. In a situation where you have a

teenager who's been raped and is being forced to carry a baby to term, and they're asking us to potentially prosecute that victim for having an abortion after 15 weeks. By the way, again, a law that's been held unconstitutional under Florida law, the choices were to prosecute the victim and prosecute the rapist. I mean, it just doesn't work that way. So I was saying that we shouldn't be criminalizing these decisions, that this is not an efficient use of taxpayer resources. This isn't something that promotes public safety. And those are views held by the constituents in my community. I know that because they've put their trust in me when they voted for me twice.

Absolutely. And you bring up something that I think is important that we hear about many times, frankly, governors in this country lean on the broad discretion that prosecutors have in determining whether they are or are not going to be bringing charges in a particular case and they often utilize that to point to justification for why where a police misconduct case is concerned or why something else where the public has an outcry, why the decision of the prosecutor is the one that stands. But it seems here DeSantis doesn't want you to have that discretion in terms of the way that the state's resources are being used and also doesn't want you to be able to do something that I think you're supposed to be able to do, which is still use your free speech to speak against an issue, whether or not you end up having to actually prosecute when a law is violated.

That's absolutely right. I mean, you've touched on the two key issues. One is that he's violating my free speech because I'm allowed to speak out. And not only am I allowed to speak out, it's my duty as an elected official to speak out. It's my duty as a prosecutor to speak out on issues that affect the criminal justice system. I mean, that's what elections are all about, right? The voters have a right for me to be transparent. And I was being transparent, saying I The voters have a right for me to be transparent. And I was being transparent, saying I don't think this is a good use of resources. Whether I did it by signing onto a letter, whether I did it if I were called to testify in the state capitol about the issue, it really doesn't make a difference.

I'm speaking out on issues that are important to the criminal justice system. But the governor also doesn't have the authority under Florida law just to suspend someone because he doesn't like what they said or he doesn't like how they're exercising their discretion. And that's why we filed suit against him. So you were elected, correct? I was elected twice and I was elected with 370,000 votes. So let's not lose sight of the fact that by suspending me, the governor is not just kicking me out of office. He's throwing out the votes of 370,000 Floridians who put their faith in me, who pulled the lever for me, who want me to represent them in this community. He is taking his judgment and saying, I, the governor, know better than all the people who voted for Andrew

Warren. You know, that doesn't happen in democracies. It happens in North Korea. It happens in Russia. That's not the way America works. Well, at least it's not the way that America is supposed to work. I am going to bring in my panel and see if they have a couple of questions for you. But for my part, as a lawyer of more than 25 years, I certainly wish you the best in this endeavor. I even remember being a government attorney and many times, frankly, we had to bite

our tongues because we were not allowed at that point to make political statements that were contrary to the position of the municipality. I don't know if it was legal or constitutional that they kept us from doing that, but they surely did. All statements came, oddly enough, through the top person in the office, which is the last time I checked in this case would be you. So I don't know what he will use to justify trying to keep you from speaking out. But I do want to welcome our panel to the conversation. We have with us Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali. He is senior advisor for environmental justice. And we also have with us Dr. Larry J. Walker, assistant professor, University of Central Florida. Dr. Mustafa, I'll put you up first.

Do you have a question for I hope soon to be reinstated states attorney Warren? Yes, states attorney Warren. Thank you. Thank thank you for standing up and not just accepting these types of actions. We are going to be moving toward 2024 here rather quickly. Once we get past the midterms, of course, we should stay focused on that. And we know that there is a good chance that Governor DeSantis will be running. the type of behavior that he's shown to you and overstepping his bounds and weaponizing his governor's office, does that give you pause

if he was to run for the presidency? It does. I mean, this is much more about my position, more about than my position, right? This is about defending our democracy. And the idea that any elected official can just throw out somebody's vote is contrary to the very fiber of our country. And so the governor has showed that he's willing to punish people who have spoken out against him. I mean, think about the people who have spoken out in ways that he disapproved of in Florida.

First, it was businesses that he went after. Then it was teachers with, you know, teaching race in their classrooms. Now it's public servants. I mean, who's next? The governor likes to brag about the so-called free state of Florida, but it's sure not free for people who disagree with him. Absolutely. Dr. Walker, do you have a question for our guests? I do.

Two questions. I think the first question is, what are some of the things you've heard from your constituents? You talked about being duly elected twice. What are some of the people saying that you see on the streets or people reach out to you via email, et cetera?

What are some of the things you're hearing? That's the first question. The second question is, let's talk politics. I mean, this is an election year. I'm here in the state of Florida. What role, I think I know the answer to the question, but what role does this being an election year play in what's happened to you recently? Well, let me answer the first question first. So I've been so encouraged and inspired by the support we've gotten from the community. I've had people, Republicans,

Democrats, Independents reaching out. People are joining us at AndrewWarrenFL.com. Look, this is not about my race. This is not about politics. This is about democracy. And when I've had people come to me and say, I didn't even vote for you, and I'm not sure I'd vote for you again, but this is messed up. This is not how democracy works. That's really reassuring that people understand what's at stake here and how dangerous this is to the integrity of our elections. In terms of this being an election year, I actually think the reason why this is happening is 2024, not 2022. I mean, the governor has shown that he's either planning to run for president or trying to out-Trump Trump or both. And he spends more time campaigning out in Arizona, New Mexico, and Pennsylvania than he does governing in the state of Florida now. He did this to

further his own political agenda so that he can add a line to his stump speech about how tough he is. But the irony is that, you know, he talks about upholding the rule of law. I'm the one who's been following the rule of law in Hillsborough County. I'm the one who put my hand on the Bible

and swore to uphold the Florida and the U.S. Constitution. And when it comes to the unconstitutional abortion law, I'm the one person who's actually supporting the Constitution and not enforcing a law that at this point is still unconstitutional. I have one more question before we let you go. We're about to talk to the NAACP president about the bike stop law. Were you the person who was responsible for taking that law off the books that has now come back on? Or what are your thoughts in general

about the policy? I'm glad you asked about that. So this was a policy that we worked with the Tampa Police Department on. And the idea behind it was several years ago in Tampa, there was an issue with a disproportionate number of bike citations, civil infractions, so nothing criminal, where people were being stopped for not having a taillight or something on their bike. And there was a DOJ investigation because it turned out that it was predominantly black cyclists who were being stopped. So Tampa police really changed what they were doing on that. They've drastically reduced the numbers. And we worked with them to figure out

how we could continue moving away from that bad policy of the past. And it was just a policy where our attorneys were taking a second look at these cases to make sure that they weren't filing cases where the initial stop may have been discriminatory or in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Now, my successor, the person who the governor appointed, his handpicked

person who's never gotten a single vote for any office in her life, you know, right away undid that policy. And I'm worried about the impact that it's going to have, because these are policies put in place to promote fairness and justice in the system. And the opposite is going to end up furthering racial disparities that we've seen. Well, thank you so much, State's Attorney Warren, for being with us. We certainly wish you the best in having your fight for justice, not just for you, but really for the honor of the office itself of state's attorney, because whatever it is that the governor is able to get away with doing here can happen other places in the nation, and we absolutely do not want that. So please keep us posted on how it's going. We certainly

will be keeping an eye on the story. Thank you so much. Have a great night. Also with us to discuss one of the changes that Susan Lopez, the newly appointed temporary state's attorney, is making is in the keep the streets safe policy was reinstating the bike stop policy targeting black cyclists. Joining us now to talk about biking while black is Yvette Lewis, the NAACP president of the Hillsborough County branch. Welcome, Ms. Lewis, to Roland Martin Unfiltered. Thank you so much for this wonderful opportunity. So I'll start where we just finished. I wanted, on purpose, to ask the currently suspended state's attorney about the legitimacy of this policy and the heightened efforts that the office was taking in order to take a look at the actions of the police in the way that they're disproportionately stopping black cyclists.

And he says that there's no need to reverse the work that they were doing. I'm assuming you agree with him. Most definitely. I do agree with him. And even the Department of Justice, when they came here to talk about it, and they did a report on it, the cops division. So they stated that this was an unfair policy. And so the Department of Justice stated that was an unfair policy, but was the police department sanctioned for it? Did anything happen? Were there consequences? So let me explain a little bit. So we were reaching out to the Department of Justice.

So at that time, the mayor that we had was Bob Buckhorn, Mayor Bob Buckhorn. And the current mayor that we have now, she was the chief of police. What she did and what he did was they preempted us and reached out to the Department of Justice, the cops, the cops division, to get a fair or better ruling for themselves, but it backfired. It stated that the practices were unfair and it disproportionately was a burden to African-American people in the city of Tampa. So what you have to think about to me, here, as S.A. Warren said, you've got somebody, Susan Lopez, who hasn't run for office. Nobody's voted for her. The only person we know for sure that wants her in that job is DeSantis. And one of

the first things that she does is take a look at this. I mean, it really couldn't be any clearer why she was put in the position and what her intentions are in terms of disproportionately affecting black and brown people. And I'm sure that this is just one of the first ways that we're going to see that happen. Mustafa, do you have a question for Ms. Lewis? Yes. Well, Ms. Lewis, thank you for everything that you do. You know, my question is that we know that biking plays an important role. One, we know that we have a transportation equity situation where some folks utilize their bikes to get to work because they may not be able to afford, you know, other forms of transportation.

And the other side of it is that there are all these health benefits. Have they brought into the conversation how their sets of actions will impact both our wealth and our health? No, they haven't. To be honest with you, when I met with them, they didn't even think none of this through. They just felt like this is something that we needed to reverse back. So when I met with them, I told them that you have placed a target on Black folks' bike in the city of Tampa. Dr. Walker? Yeah, so we know clearly from the evidence that we cited in this conversation that this disproportionately impacts members of the Black community. Have you, and you talked about you'd already had conversations with the newly appointed state attorney in terms of why they're reversing this

policy. So I guess my next question is, what are the next steps for the NAACP? They reversed the policy. You've had a brief conversation with them, clearly they're not considering listening to you and then rescinding it. So what are the next steps in terms of what NAACP plans to do in the state of Florida to address this particular policy issue? One of our next steps is that we're definitely in conversation, the local branch with the Florida State Conference NAACP and the National NAACP Legal Department on how we should go about doing this. But I'm almost positive there will definitely be a phone call placed to the Department of Justice regarding this here,

because this is a true violation of people's civil rights that they have imposed on once again. And this is something that she's carrying out the mission. This is politics. She's carrying out the mission of the governor, Governor DeSantis. And since she's issued that memo, there has been an increase of African Americans being stopped by riding bikes. So this office have received several, several phone calls regarding that. We have one today. Well, no rest for the weary, as my grandmother used to say.

We absolutely have to remain vigilant and we count on organizations, legacy organizations like the NAACP for doing exactly what you are doing. So, Yvette Lewis, thank you so much for coming and talking to us about it and for staying on the front lines and doing the work. We appreciate you. Thank you. We are going to go to a quick break and then we will be back with more, more, more. This is Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Be right back. When we invest in ourselves, our glow, our vision, our our vibe we all shine together we are black beyond measure

hatred on the streets a horrific scene white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence white people are losing their damn minds there's an angry pro-trump mob storm to the u.s capital we're about to see the rise of what i call white minority resistance we have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting i think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial this is part part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at every university calls white rage as a backlash.

This is the wrath of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. Give all the Proud Boys a hug. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure.

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Roland Martin Unfiltered. 17-year-old Michael Thomas has been missing from Macon, Georgia, since August 9th, 2022. He's 5 feet 9 inches tall, weighs 130 pounds, with black hair and black eyes. Anyone with information about Michael Thomas should call the Bibb County, Georgia Sheriff's Office at 478-746-9441. In Georgia, a special prosecutor reviewing the shooting of a black man by an Atlanta police officer has decided to drop the charges against both officers involved. Garrett Rolfe was charged with felony murder, and Officer Devin Brosnan faced aggravated assault charges in the June 2020 death of Rayshard Brooks. The 27-year-old black man was shot and killed by Rolfe outside a Wendy's restaurant the Scandalakis said his investigation led him to dropping the charges against both officers.

Scandalakis says he's filing an administrative dismissal to drop the charges. I want to stop right there and talk to my panel and now welcome Ms. Randy Bryant, diversity Diversity and Inclusion Strategist, Speaker, Trainer, and Writer. Thanks for joining us. I know we had some technical difficulties, but we're glad you're with us now. So now we're complete. And it was really fiery, the distinction between the manner in which the mayor's office wanted to handle it, the way the police department wanted to handle it. So many police officers were striking without being on strike, calling in sick, doing things like that. And now at the end of the day, it looks like there will be no criminal prosecution in these cases. Your thoughts?

Yeah, you're right. I vividly remember this case because it took place outside of Wendy's. And, you know, ultimately, we're really, as African Americans, we're constantly being bombarded with these cases in which interactions with law enforcement, with Black people, regardless of the situation, end up in fatality. And we also know why issues in terms of Black people being stopped whether riding bikes, and we just talked about the last story, or other situations, once you come in contact with law enforcement, we know statistically Black people will likely end up dead. And this is a sobering reminder in terms of issues relating to justice that we know that saying how long, not long, but there's still a long way that we have to go to ensure that African Americans in this country are treated fairly and that they're not on the spot being responded with violence, which often ends up in, like I said, these increased mortality rates when in interaction with law enforcement. And I got to tell you also as a Black man, but also as a father of a teenager, when I

hear these kinds of stories, and I try to explain this to people, some people don't understand, is that this reaches really deep down in my soul, and it tears. Because you see, I see myself, I see my son, I see my nephews and other people that I care about very dearly, they can end up victims of these kinds of unfortunate deaths at the hand of law enforcement. But also, which is why Congress, I mean, specifically the Senate, should have passed some kind of comprehensive police reform. Oh, sure. Absolutely. George Floyd, Justice in Policing. I'm glad that you mentioned that, because that was actually what I was going to go to Dr. Mustafa about. This case was fresh

on the heels of George Floyd, but this was not a George Floyd case. This case obviously had any number of distinctions in terms of the officer's need to stop and figure out what was going on with the man who I believe fell asleep in the vehicle. And then there were many issues that unfolded after that, including the taking of the taser. And I know that just in the legal community, many of us came down different ways on this. Do you think that the charging originally in this case had more to do with the climate of the nation coming off of the murder of George Floyd and that perhaps they were too quick to charge here? I don't necessarily think that they were too quick to charge.

I think what we did find in that moment that folks finally started to think at least a little bit about what justice looks like. What does equity look like in a process? And folks began to kind of dole that out and some of the decisions that were made. Here's the thing that, you know, is really interesting as we look back. You know, Baldwin once shared with us, you know, some really important lessons about, you know, it's not

things that people just say, but it's actually what they end up doing. So during that time period, there were supposed to be reforms, both from the police and a number of other folks who were part of the legal system. And everyone, you know, began to nod and say, yes, we're going to do these things. You know, now we fast forward a couple of years and we see that true reforms never took place. And as my dear brother just said, yes, on the federal level, that should have already happened. But even on the state level and the local level, we need to make sure that we are anchoring real reforms to make sure these types of situations don't happen. And here's the thing that kind of seals the deal for me, that no matter what transpired with the taking of the taser and those different types of things, he was still shot in the back twice. So if someone is shooting you in the back, that means that you will, you know, that you've been able to move away from whatever the confrontational situation is. And you're, you know, you're trying to get away for whatever those reasons might be. And we don't know what was inside of that brother's head, but they chose to use that lethal force within that

moment. So when you do that and you weren't under any threat, a significant threat, then I think that that gives real clarity about where your mindset was. And there has to be some culpability for those actions. Yeah. Well, I mean, I've had to try a couple of cases where there were shots in the back. So I'm going to reserve because I'm in the host chair tonight, my opinion on these matters. And instead, go to the lovely Randy. You have any thoughts about this case or really, more importantly, what we can do about cases like this? Because federal legislation is far, far, far off.

And a lot of it depends on November. But states and local municipalities can do things any day of the week. Right. Well, the one thing I am stuck on is the shooting in the back. I understand there have been cases, but I thought that you could only shoot someone in the back if the person was dangerous and they were getting away. And I can't see how a person who has had too much to drink, who probably pulled over to Wendy's parking lot because he realized that he was not fit to drive.

And if many people are honest, many of us have been in that situation. That does not sound as if a person, a person that is dangerous and needs to get away. So, they're scared, a threat to society if he were to get away. So that's something that made me quite uncomfortable. What we do going forward is we do what we have been doing. We put pressure on our local politicians

and work our way up and let them know that we are paying attention, that we are, I think even now, what you said about the timing and is that they think people are no longer paying attention. And we are still paying attention. George Floyd woke many people up, but we're not going back to sleep. I really do pray that that is true. But speaking of being awake and not going back to sleep, at least one Black family is getting finally some form of justice. A former Louisville Metro police detective pleaded guilty today to one count of conspiring to violate the civil rights of Breonna Taylor for helping falsify an affidavit

for the search of her apartment in March 2020. Kelly Goodlett stood before U.S. District Judge Rebecca Grady Jennings and admitted the charge with Taylor's mother, Tamika Palmer, present in the courtroom. With this plea, Goodlett is expected to be a star witness in the trial of three of her ex-colleagues, Joshua Janes, Kyle Meany, and Brett Hankison. They face charges of unlawful conspiracy, use of force and obstruction of justice. This is the first criminal conviction related to Breonna's death and man am I thankful to see this happen. What I want to add before I come to you all for your thoughts on the matter is how grateful I am for this

Department of Justice, for the Civil Rights Division that is led by Kristen Clark. She's no stranger to the show. She's no stranger to civil rights work. She has spent her life doing the work. And so many questioned how anything would be different under this administration. And when you're looking to figure out where there are differences, like would this happen under the Trump administration? Would this happen under any of the rogue attorney generals that were in there? Or is this happening because of our vote? My answer is clear. It's a resounding yes. But I will leave it to my panel to weigh in as they see fit. Dr.

Mustafa, you first. You know, I'm right there with you because we're friends with a lot of the folks who are there at the Department of Justice, and we've held them accountable also here on the show and in our own personal interactions when we felt that they were falling a bit short. But this also goes to show that when you have powerful women of color in positions and give them the authority to be able to make sure that justice is doled out, that it actually can happen. And as you said, that's why our vote is so incredibly important. We've got to make sure that that's happening, not just on the federal level, but also in the state and the county and the local level. And that's the power that exists inside of our vote. You know, it's interesting also when we think about

our dear sister, you know, who was taken from us. You know, we had to wait 800, what is it, 889 days for justice. Dr. King talked to us about justice delayed. So one, I'm thankful that finally there's someone who is being brought to justice. But I also think about the fact that the time that we had to wait for this to happen, but also that these other sets of dynamics that are going on in this space, where we've always known that something wasn't quite

right, and all these different dynamics that have been playing out over there. So we have to continue to keep pressure on this. One, we've got to continue to lift the family and, you know, and all these different dynamics that have been playing out over there. So, you know, we have to continue to keep pressure on this. One, we've got to continue to lift the family up, but we've also got to continue to stay diligent in these sets of, you know, actions that are going to play out here over the next, you know, probably 12 months. Well, the only tweak that I want to give, because I'm not going to interrupt you when you're talking about the good things black women do, for sure. Keep on talking.

But I do want to tweak it and say many of us were not just waiting for this to happen. We were working and we were fighting for this to happen. And that starts first and foremost with Breonna's mother, Tamika Palmer. It starts, you know, with her surviving sister, with family members, with attorneys like Attorney Ben Crump and like Attorney Juanita Baker. It it continues with with until freedom members like Tamika Mallory, like my son, like to the streets and fighting and fighting in the courtroom, fighting and going to the White House and fighting and advocating just for some justice for this one sister and justice by way of accountability, because real justice would be she be alive. This never would have happened. They wouldn't have falsified documents and fraudulently found their way into her place that night.

So that to me is real justice. But this measure of accountability has been just blood, sweat and tears by so, so many. Dr. Walker, I'm just interested in your take, though, because it seems that the amount of attention we spend just to get this, as I said, to happen in one case is extraordinary. And to Mustafa's point, what are we not seeing? I mean, we know that we're not seeing so much. What are some solutions, if you have any, in the absence of the federal legislation that can enable us to know more about what is going on at the municipal level and at the state level so that there can be more accountability? Well, you know, Monique, I think that's an important question, but I think it's less about, you know, what we're doing, because obviously, you know, this is an issue in terms of, I talked a little in the last, you know, the last conversation about,

you know, interactions with law enforcement, in this case, law enforcement falsifying documents and ending up in a tragic death. But I think Black people are doing the work and have done the work for generations. I think this is really about anti-Blackness. One of the things I want to highlight in terms of talking about anti-Blackness is as a reminder that AG of Kentucky, Cameron, dropped the ball when it came to making sure that we properly prosecuted the individuals responsible for Breonna Taylor's loss of life. But like I said, I think it was important for relief of Black people. And obviously, we talk about the state of Kentucky, they continue to organize. Obviously, there's a Senate race this year, so we still got to talk

about that in Kentucky. But it's important, once again, we talk about legacy organizations, the NAACP, but also some of the other organizations over the last couple of years in states like Kentucky and other states that have responded to some of these issues, really police brutality, misconduct, but not only collectively working together in the state, but also in terms of direct strengthening the network nationally. So not only do we have specific issues that are localized, but also that we're connecting with other racial justice organizations throughout the United States. But as I said, this is not a new issue. The same issue our generation has dealt with my grandparents, our great-grandparents.

So it is about a flawed system at the federal and state level that we need to continue to fight for racial justice because we need to be very specific about what's happening here. Because a lot of the cases that we're talking about in this show and that we continue to hear about on a day-to-day basis involve Black and Brown folks. So we need to continue, obviously, the power of the ballot box, but continue to organize. The other thing, Monique, I want to highlight is we need to fund these organizations because, you know, obviously, collectively, Black people, in terms of we talk about, obviously, entrepreneurship and supporting black businesses, we also have to support organization, racial justice organizations to ensure that they can file lawsuits and have various other initiatives to make sure we don't see these tragedies. because when you look at even just the guests that we've had tonight, and I was in the chair last night and looking at the guests that we had there, we had a leader who'd started an organization called Julian,

and they're filing lawsuits, catching the slack for things that DOJ doesn't have time to look at because they can't run around doing all of it. We looked tonight at organizations like the NAACP, but this isn't NAACP National. This is local NAACP chapter that's fighting this bicycling while black law. And funding those organizations does still matter. And sometimes I think people don't realize

how much power we have on the local level to create change, even if all we do is take that $10 that we would have spent at Chipotle and give it to the local chapter of the NAACP. Or maybe we've got more time and we're running for office ourselves. I tell people, don't just vote. Don't just register to vote. Don't just carry people to vote. Run.

Run for the office, because when you look at the caliber of people that we elect, even to the presidency of the United States in this country, baby, you've got a shot and you likely will do a better job than some of the ones that are being pushed for right now. But those are my thoughts. Dear Randy, what say you? Well, amen to that. Amen to that. You know, I think that. Amen to that. You know, I think that there needs to be more knowledge about what these organizations are doing. The media very much, like the majority media,

very much likes to show us marching in the streets, but they don't like to show the work we're doing behind the scenes. The lawsuits that are being brought up, the people who are, you know, writing letters and pushing the politicians and putting their feet on the necks of local police law enforcement. And so if we were to at least see that and understand what's being done behind the scenes, then we would say, oh, absolutely,

let me give my $10 a month to this organization. That's one. I really do believe many of us are, you know, kept in the dark about that. And we're just kept in the dark about these cases that are happening all around us. You know, the media decides which ones to pick up and which ones to highlight, where there are, you know, many cases happening all around, even the, you know, biking while Black. I don't think many people would say that they know about that and what it's causing and how the laws are very much targeting black people. So, because of course the media doesn't want us to be aware of all the discrimination that we face day to day today. So it really is just being more knowledgeable and getting that information to everyone involved.

Well, I mean, and it's also what we have an appetite for. You know, I mean, the media as the bad boogeyman, I buy into it sometimes, sometimes I don't. But the reason why we have black media, the reason why programs like this exist and need your support is because these stories are going to get covered here that are not going to be getting covered other places. that is the value of us taking up taking it upon ourselves to keep ourselves informed and even things you've said like writing letters in acp doing their advocacy work we can all do some of that you know get a paper and a pencil boo and a pen and and and some paper and a pen and a stamp and an envelope old school um because congressional offices care about that stuff when they start getting mail

like real mail they get worked up about it they get worked up about phone calls but i'm getting worked up moving on in dallas police officers must wear their body-worn cameras at all off-duty jobs they work. The policy change comes after a Dallas officer was involved in a shooting this past weekend. Chief Eddie Garcia sent a memo to all police department employees on Monday saying there are many instances where officers are working off-duty jobs and taking reports affecting arrests and or involved in use of force incidents. These incidents are crucial for prosecution transparency and for justification. Officers can work off-duty jobs outside their regular shifts, but the jobs have to be approved by their supervisor.

Garcia says wearing body cameras both on-duty and at off-duty jobs is imperative. Man, what were we just talking about? Do you see how a huge policy change that could save people's lives, that could keep us from being disproportionately tased, harassed, stopped, frisked, searched, arrested? All of that happened just with this one head of a municipality making a decision. Y'all get that? That's why it matters. How did he get in office? Where can we find more of them? Quickly, any thoughts, Mustafa? This is what you call common sense policy. We know policy can lift up or policy can be destructive. This is one of those actions that can help to make policy more filled with equity, hopefully justice as well.

But it's common sense stuff. So, you know, I'm glad to see that he made that mandate. And we'll see if anybody challenges it as it moves forward. Oh, you can count on the unions having something to say about this. But, Dr. Walker, it's like you just finished saying the efforts that are on the ground. These are the types of efforts that local activism can support. And we could see more of it in lieu of the federal legislation that we know we need. Yeah, and this is a really great way for the chief of police to build some capital with the community with this new initiative. Monique, one of the important things he mentioned

was it has to be vetted. The job has to be approved. I think that's really important because there are some jobs after work hours, officers work that are more dangerous than others. So this may, in many respects, put a pause on some jobs that officers should be engaged in after hours, in which they obviously sometimes leave the force or other interactions where people end up in jail. But this could obviously end up saving black lives, but more importantly, reel in some officers that are engaged in after work activities.

They have the shield protecting them, but they are not being held accountable based on seeing what happened in these incidents. Right, and Randy, they don't just have the shield protecting them. They've got their service revolver. They've got a gun protecting them. And that's the thing that the chief of police alluded to that I just want to zone in on

because I defended a municipality for over 11 years. And one of the cases involved an off-duty officer who had to use his service revolver. But he didn't have three other things that he could have used if he was on duty. He didn't have a taser at his disposal. He didn't have a baton at his disposal. He didn't even have handcuffs at his disposal. All he had was a gun. And when you end up in a position in a dark alley or at a club or these places where they're working and it's either you or the offender, you know, or the alleged offender, then it ends up on the side of the officer. So that's why I think these cameras are going to make a world of difference in Dallas. And I want to see more of it.

Lives will definitely be saved. I mean, and also we have to talk about the mentality. I mean, many cops walk around with a sense of authority, even when they're not on the clock. And that sense of strength and arrogance, you know, gets people in trouble. And so absolutely this, if it is not challenged, which I am sure that it will be rigorously challenged, it will save some lives. And also, you know, you brought up a good point about not having options. I don't think that we should leave anybody who's in a position of policing other people, whether they be on duty or off duty, with the only option being a gun. Yep. Yep, absolutely.

Well, we're going to keep an eye on that one because, as I said, whatever is going on in one municipality can end up going on throughout the nation and the local fight is the one that matters. We're going to go to a break. Roland Martin Unfiltered will be right back. You're watching the Black Star Network. When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us. Growing, creating, making moves that move us all forward. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. On a next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, our kids are going back to school. After two years of disruption, thanks to COVID, are we ready? How prepare and what are the children are showing us s

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This is Tobias Trevelyan. And if you're ready, you are listening to and you are watching Roland Martin, Unfiltered. Thursday, April 11th, 2019, police were called to the Ocoee, Florida, home of Samuel Celestin, who was in the middle of a severe mental health crisis. His family was hoping to utilize the Baker Act to help him. The family told the officers of his mental health issues, but he was tased and ended up dead instead of getting the help that he needed. The coroner ruled Samuel's death a homicide.

The Coey and Windermere police officers involved were cleared of any wrongdoing. His family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against both police agencies. They believe if the officers treated Samuel like a man in crisis, instead of a criminal, he'd be alive to celebrate his 37th birthday today. Joining us now are Samuel's siblings, Joanne and John Celestin. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thank you so much. I first just want to extend my deepest sympathies and

that of the show to your family. I know that this is a difficult day, but thank you for taking the time to honor your brother by utilizing this opportunity to share information with us all about what happened. Were either of you present on the day that he suffered the mental health break? Yes, I was present that day. And so I was the one who actually called, you know, 911 to actually seek help from my brother. I noticed that he was confused and that he was acting out of his character. And so knowing the mental health, you know, history that he has, I called, gave that complete history and both to the operator and to the police officer that came on site.

What medical history, mental health history did he have? What did you tell them? Yes. So Samuel was suffering from initially what looked like depression for many, many years, for most of the years. And then after that, he was diagnosed with anxiety as well. Then it was diagnosed with bipolar and schizoaffective schizophrenia. And you informed the officers. Which police department did you call?

When you called 911, what did you reach? So I reached an operator, but they did send a COE police officer because we do live in a COE. So that's where our home was. All right. And so was it at that point you all left the home and he was left in the home? What happened when the officers arrived? Right. So when the officers arrived, I met the officer in my vehicle with my mother. And so, you know, again, I explained the medical condition. I myself as a, you know, emergency room provider. And so I gave him all the medical backgrounds and I told him also, hey, I know how he goes. I'll see him in the ER soon. And then my mother was the one who actually went with the officer because of, you know,

I had my children as well that I needed to attend at home with. All right. And so at that point, just tell us what you know. I know that it wasn't you who was going to the home, but what is it that your mother informed of what happened? And what, if anything, is different about the way that the officers are telling the story? Yeah, so from what I was made aware, you know, they arrived, opened the door, and Samuel was obviously still confused, not sure if they're even a police officer,

asking for credentials, you know, asking them to check the water because he thinks, like, it's contaminated and poisonous. And he had like lots of things in his hands, keys, things he was collecting. And then from right then and there, they just started to tase him. You know, no resistance nor anything like that that he was doing. No verbal altercation from him. And two officers pulled out their tasers, and they continued to taste Samuel on the chest, both of them.

And Samuel fell to the ground, raised his hands, and said, you know, please, please stop. And still, you know, they continued to taste him. And then after that, Samuel saw an officer coming from the side view, and he says, please, sir, help me, runs towards that officer. And then, you know, he gets tackled, and then he gets tased again multiple times with multiple officers to the point where he ended up getting hogtied and stopped breathing. And at that time, you know, they wouldn't render him CPR. And so he ended up, you know, passing away is what I found out. However, that night, you know, we were told that he was fine and he was in the hospital. You're saying someone contacted you on behalf of law enforcement and lied and told you that We were told that he was fine and he was in the hospital.

Someone contacted you on behalf of law enforcement and lied and told you that your brother was alive and doing fine? They told my mother that because, remember, my mother was in the home. And so they did, when she was, they were asking her a lot of questions after all the, because at some point she was entered into the home. And so they did ask her a lot of questions. And she was like, well, I just want to know, like, what's going on with my son. And they're like, well, he's fine. He's in the hospital. And she's like, well, I need to go see him. And they're like, no, no, you can't right now because there's an investigation going on.

And and they told her that, you know, he's alive and asked her, you know, do you want to press charges on him and stuff like that. So even so your mom, though, was on the scene at the time that they hogtied him, that that we know now that he stopped breathing. And but when he was taken away in the ambulance, she thought he was being taken away for treatment? Correct. So, at some point during all of the tasing and all that, she was escorted into the house, asked to go inside the house, and then she was quarantined in the home. So, she could not see most of what happened after that. Once he was no longer invisible from the front door and like, you know, asking the other officer for help. She wasn't able to visibly see that just the way the home is structured. But yes. Now, I want to back up for a minute because I, you know, I don't, I don't like to miss facts

because people hear it and then they say, we left something out. When your brother first opened the door at some point, the officers say that he had some sort of knife in his hand in addition to other things that he had in his hand. Is that accurate? And did he try to hurt anyone with it or what happened with that? No, when I arrived to the house, I never saw a knife. So I don't know anything about, you know, being threatened by a knife or anything like that. But there were reports of that, but that was not anything that I, you know, it was a knife or a knife or a knife. I don't know if it was a knife

or a knife or a knife. I don't know if it was a knife or a knife or anything like that. But there were reports of that. But that was not anything that I can attest to. And what we know for sure is by the time he was outside of

the house and they ended up hog tying him or tying him in this prone position which so many times now we have seen this have devastating consequences, but at that point he certainly wasn't armed. So I just I can't at all see any justification for that. I'm Mr. Celestin, we talked a good bit about And the video shows some of what happened to your brother But we also Mentioned that he they had hoped to your family had hoped to use the Baker Act. What can you explain about what that means and what kind of outcome that should have been?

Yeah, the Baker Act basically is where you're able to get someone committed to treatment. Samuel had been Baker Act before. Joanne was at the scene and actually explained that to the officers. At one point, I don't know if, you know, when the audience gets a chance, they can see the body cam for themselves. Joanne actually asks the officer,

will a crisis team be coming? Because as a medical provider, someone who knows the community, she knows that when someone is struggling and someone's displaying clear symptoms of mental health crisis, they usually send a crisis intervention team to either assist the officers or help the person. And the police officer dismissed it. As a matter of fact, I'm not going to interpret the footage for anybody.

They can see it for themselves. But the officer pivots and basically continues to try to get the call to become a criminal call. So we had hope when we called that Samuel was going to be just helped to the hospital. Samuel is someone that, throughout throughout his history has never displayed. He's never hurt anyone. Samuel has been someone who's been a model citizen. You know, out of our entire family, we always say he was the best of us. And it's just tragic that his first encounter with police was his last encounter in life. And that to me is unacceptable, and it's painful, and it's traumatic.

And I think that that's something that everyone should think about because it could happen to any of us. Absolutely. And this is not what's supposed to happen when you call those who are supposed to be protecting and serving for help. And certainly, if they are not skilled to handle someone who's having a mental health crisis then they

should stand down until they can get someone there who can but we also are aware and I don't I don't whichever one of you I know these facts are difficult but I do want to bring them out so that our audience understands fully what happened we're aware that when he was having not just mental health, but physical health issues, issues breathing, issues choking, while they were restraining him, what seems to be unnecessarily, that some comments were made by the officers who refused to render him aid. Would one of you like to tell us what was said?

Yes. You know, I've had a chance to watch the body cam footages. There's several, because there were so many officers involved. There's different versions. And, you know, when my brother was no longer breathing, you can hear the officers almost sort of like try to get their stories together. And then you can hear one officer actually curse his body, basically saying that, you know, we're just we're trying to help him and he does this. And I'm not going to use this, the language that he used on on on live right now, but basically curses a dead body that's on the ground. And then towards the end, by the time that the ambulance came, sometime after, you can see just the casualness of the officers. I believe one of them at some point starts discussing his plans for happy hour, while my brother's body is being strapped to the gurney and being put into the ambulance. So, you know, all of these things are things when you put

them together are just unacceptable. They're things that are callous. They're things that are inhumane. They're things that no one here would be tolerated in the behavior that these officers displayed if they displayed it in their own life or in their own workspace. And so for us, it's just one of those things where these officers made choices and Samuel needed help. And instead of helping him, the situation became escalated. And Samuel himself tries to deescalate. Samuel puts up his hands, he clasps his hands together and says, please, please, sir, please stop. Please stop. Please help me. And they continue. And I want people to understand what that means. I want you to put

yourself in that situation. You're disoriented. You're confused. You're paranoid. You actually thought the water was poison. You're worried for the safety of the people in the house. You're, you know, locking doors. And these officers come and they start tasing you. And as you're being tased, one pulls out a gun and he's telling you that he's going to shoot you. He's going to kill you. Right. The confusion. Right. And then when you run to another one for help, they tackle you and you have five droned men on top of you and you're being electrocuted. I want people to understand what that feels like because that to me is something that no human being should have to go through.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And to your knowledge, what was the policy regarding the multiple uses of the taser and regarding the hog tying? Because in most jurisdictions that even still allow for it, you have to be on your side if they're going to restrain you in that manner. Yeah, we didn't know anything about policies. Obviously, you know, no one's prepared for this. Neither of us, no one in the family, besides my father, no one went to law school. So, you know, what we've heard after the fact is the fact that it's just known common practice in law enforcement that you don't, you A, don't hogtie someone. And if you are going to hogtie someone, you at least flip them over right away in order

for them to breathe. But, you know, it shouldn't even come to that point. My brother was not a threat to these officers. My brother was someone who was a sick patient. It would be no different than going to find someone who has a different type of health issue. And then, because they're disoriented, you start, you escalate the situation. These officers taunted him. They made fun of the questions that he was asking. They were overly sarcastic. I mean, these are all things. And to Samuel's credit, he didn't try to hurt any of these officers. And so the policy for us is just justice is something that is possible in spurts. And for us, at the end of the day, we can't bring Samuel back.

But the idea that five people could be involved in a situation where a young man loses his life and there is no repercussion. No one loses anything. Everyone goes back to work like nothing happened. Right. And that's that's actually the next thing that I wanted to find out about. Really, the last thing I want to find out about. And it's Miss Celestine. Is it doctor? Doctor? Yes. Dr. Celestine. It's my understanding that none of the officers have faced any type of consequences, that there's been no criminal charges and there's been no employment action against them. Is that correct? Yes, to our knowledge.

I'm sorry. Go ahead, Joanne. Yeah, so absolutely nothing has been done, not even a suspension a day, nothing, absolutely not. No one has reached out to us as a family either from the police department, nor the mayor or anyone. So really it's not being addressed, let's be real. Unless that, besides us knocking on doors through our attorneys, we would have not even found the body count.

The body count came literally close to two years after. That's when they released it. You know, close to two years, which is exactly, you know, you're legal. So exactly where that statute of limitations starts to come in. And that even took us, we had to go to court for that. We had to go to court because they were saying that my mother was not next of kin. She had to prove that she was the next of kin. So it's cover up after cover up and completely dismissive. You know, where this occurred, Ocoee, although it's Ocoee, our home is situated right next to, you know, Windermere.

We're talking about running distance to, you know, Tiger Woods homes, Shaquille O'Neal's homes. This is like right there. It's, you know, located. And so it's a real like hush hush is what's really going on. But, you know, it's very shameful. Me being in the medical field and just knowing like work that attorneys do and, you know, accountants do and everybody else, there's all this accountability we have for life. However, you know, just the mere fact that you would not render, you know, CPR to a dying man and you're in a police officer, you know, you're a police officer. And so it's like, you know, that to me is unacceptable. And the failure to render aid for someone who is in law enforcement or in the medical profession is not just a civil issue. It's a crime. Hello, Monique Worrell. I'm talking to you.

But you all have filed a lawsuit. What is the status of that? Well, we can't really talk too much about the lawsuit. However, our efforts has been to try to bring attention to what happened to Samuel. We hope that this doesn't happen to anyone. We do believe, you know, the community who has seen the body footage and who has seen the facts of the case, there's not a single person that we've met that doesn't believe that there is something criminal here. And we do have, you know, we have this situation where we're in a town where, you know, we always talk about as, you know, I'm going to bring you back to the village right now. You know, as black people, we always talk about we want a seat at the table, you know I'm gonna bring you back to the village right now you know as black people we always talk about we want to see that the table you know and here we are we are in the community where there's affluent black elected officials

as Joanne mentioned before we were on our own it took two years for us to even know how Samuel died we didn't even know how he died we have to go and find everything because there was such a firewall every single place that we went and not a single person approached us and said, how can we be of help? And I'm talking about people that look like us, right? And so now we're in a situation where we have a state attorney that made a lot of promises about police accountability.

And here we are where we have a case, Samuel is one of multiple cases that has happened in the Orange County community where they've found a way to never prosecute officers for killing or body slamming or shooting people in the back. And that, to me, is just very scary. It's very scary because all of these people that are at the local level, some of these people are going to become national. And so it's just very scary to me that we're in a situation where we have our seat at the table, but all of these are like Pyrrhic-like positions and no one's really actually taking the stance to actually deliver on what they promise. Well, something has to be done. And I certainly applaud your steadfastness,

your boldness, your bravery in fighting for justice for your brother. We all want to wish a happy heavenly birthday to your brother Samuel. Today actually is the day, my late grandfather's birthday as well. So a very special day for two very special men and count on us and count on our support, Joanne, Celestine and Jean Celestine. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. So what could have been done different by the police that would have kept Samuel Celestin alive? Done different by the police or even done different by family members? Because I think we have to look honestly at the unfortunate situation in our streets and in our communities we're calling the police and hoping that the police are gonna do right by our loved ones maybe is not the solution. Joining me now is Dr. Carla Moore. She is the founder and clinical director of

Moore to Life Counseling and Consulting and we will discuss what law enforcement can do, should do, to keep those experiencing a mental health crisis from being the next hashtag, which certainly is the last thing we want. Thank you so much for joining. I'm hoping you got to hear the interview just then. What are your thoughts? Well, thank you again for having me this evening. And first, I would also like to express my condolences to the family. I did get to hear most of the interview.

And so immediately, I just think about how often we've heard these stories and the racialized trauma that our community continue to experience. I know all cases and all situations are different. But being a licensed psychologist that works specifically with public safety, both police and fire, a lot of times I really try to reiterate to our community about ways to be proactive and find modalities in which we can protect each other, protect ourselves, protect our family members that actually suffer from mental health issues. And so, but it does sound like, you know, from their description of what they talked about during the actual 911 call, that they gave all of the important key factors in making sure that a CIT response happened. So you heard the gentleman talk about, I mean, his brother talk about the crisis intervention team. You know, we've encouraged

agencies to continue to train officers about crisis intervention responses, how to de-escalate someone that has a mental health issue. There are trainings even within academies about how to work with calls specific to what they call EDPs or emotionally disturbed persons. They may have updated the actual language or jargon in which they describe those calls. But at the end of the day, there has to be policies in place, procedures. I know they're supposed to be taught that at the academy level from the time they're recruited, even annual trainings. However, I think looking at it from a cultural perspective, really thinking about what does a particular disorder look like in a person of color,

because all the symptoms, signs, and features of that disorder may be different. So maybe training needs to be a little bit more sophisticated as we're talking about the agency itself, but also thinking about how to educate our community, even about what we're describing when we have those calls, instead of it being a law enforcement call, maybe it being a medical EMT type call. Some agencies actually have medical providers that come out to those calls on the ambulance. So they call mental health clinicians on the ambulance call. Right, and that's one of the keys though, isn't? In in not calling the police to do a doctor's job or to do an emergency attendance job, because it seems like even when you have a medical professional professional who's making the call and saying all of the right things,

that they still end up with a dead family member because of who answered the call. I don't know if you subscribe to this or not. So I'm asking, is it the case that in our communities, we really just can't afford to call the police in situations like this? So, yes. So unfortunately, again, because of all of the cases and a lot of cases and scenarios where we've ended up with this result, it's a very tricky situation, right? So when you're calling, you're afraid of calling specifically about mental health, someone with a mental health crisis. So being specific as to, hey, can I have an ambulance for this person or asking specifically. But again, sounds like she gave all the right variables and components of what the call was about and details of the history. So it's unfortunate. agency's shoulders to really focus on training, call response, partnering with a med unit,

so that those types of calls are handled by the appropriately trained people or appropriately trained medical or mental health clinicians that are part of an EMT call. Absolutely. Any questions? Randy, do you have a question for our expert? What I wondered is if the criminalization of Black people plays into this somewhat. If we have been titled as always being violent or someone to fear, and that is stuck in people's minds, is it more difficult for us to receive the help that we need? Absolutely. And so earlier I kind of mentioned what we are typically painted as, as it pertains to what mental health should and should not look like, what someone, when someone is suffering from a mental health issue, what it should and should not look like. I think a lot of times people aren't culturally competent

to realize the different variables, features, components, what mental health issues could look like, but as opposed to it being labeled as aggressive or angry or belligerent or, you know, oppositional, when in fact kind of reframing what it looks like in people of color is where it begins, you know, honestly, as it pertains to mental health issues. But you're right, the criminalization of people of color, Black people particularly, actually paints a different picture when it comes to mental health issues.

So I think, you know, really having the conversations around learning about mental health issues within the Black community, what it may look like, as opposed to mislabeling, right, would really be a part of the solution. You know, I don't know if we can ever fully strip out the cultural biases that exist in some of the folks who are in law enforcement. I'm a numbers person. So I know that over 50 million people in our country suffer from mental illness or have mental health-related types of challenges that are going on every year. And then also 20 to 30 percent of the calls, I've read studies that show 20 to 30 percent of the 911 calls are because there is a mental health crisis. If we know that, that seems like there are some things that we can actually do. And you

had mentioned, you know, about possibly, you know, having a number that folks could call. If we know that we have that many people, it seems like we should have a separate number that would bring the right types of services to an individual. I'd like to get your impressions on the utility of that. And if smaller sort of metropolitan areas or smaller cities and towns would actually be able to implement something like that? Absolutely. So, I do think the implementation of 988 versus 911 is something that is kind of up and running to differentiate another type of emergency versus a mental health emergency call. So I think a lot of agencies are transitioning to what the response looks like for a 988 call versus 911. In addition to that, so a lot of funding that goes into training, actually, and, you know, from a cultural perspective, it should look more like a systems approach. So like you mentioned, more than one modality or more than one system of responding to that

call and it being at least until, so agencies are having difficulty with establishing trusting relationships in the community, correct? So the black community is like, we don't even trust to call this number any longer. So a systems approach would be to really channel your energy and figuring out how can we respond to this type of call from a systems approach and not just to be a law enforcement officer. If it could be a team of mental health clinicians, someone that actually may have law enforcement training. So it should be more of a systems approach in educating those that respond on what you may see during a mental health crisis. So you're right, taking a different approach, having a different call number, those to me are

just basic changes that can have a huge impact on what it would mean to respond to those types of calls. Dr. Larry, we've got like 30 seconds. Yeah, so I'll just say thank you for your work. It's really important. Mental health is an issue touched by many of us, family members, friends, colleagues, etc. So we're short on time. So thank you for your advocacy. and over again. I just saw a young woman who was killed in a law enforcement interaction. Last week, I saw people posting about it, and it was a similar situation where the police were called and completely misjudged the situation, or as our panel said, we are criminalized, we are over-criminalized, and then we are treated in that manner. And as I've said on the show over and over again, as less than human, because if we were seen as human,

then I believe that we would be treated accordingly. But we do appreciate your work and appreciate you coming and sharing with us tonight. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And I'm trying to take this grassroots approach and have more public safety psychologists of color at the table. Amen. We absolutely need that. Thank you. Thank you. We are going to a quick break to pay the bills and then we'll be back. You're watching

Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. I challenge myself as an artist knowing that I'm going to challenge the audience. So oftentimes you come into this business off of one project where everybody's like, ooh, ooh, you stand out. Okay, for me it was Barbershop, Ricky, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Ricky was nothing like me, right? Nothing like me growing up. But if that's people's first experience with you, right? As an audience member, they tend to think

that's the real you, right? So, you know, for me, after that, I got a whole bunch of offers to play roles just like Ricky, right? This Tupac-esque type of type of thug, right? And I just said no over and over again. And then you keep trying to do other things. And then I went through a series of romantic movies

and romantic leads and, you know, I always try to bring some sort of gravitas to those roles. And then it was like, okay, well, but before I get into all of that, let me hit y'all with, you know, for color girls and, you know, step outside of the realm of, you know, what you expect of me to do as an audience member in terms of being this romantic lead. Because I didn't get into this business to be the romantic lead, you know, that dude. Like I didn't get into this business.

Because you can get locked in. You can totally get locked in. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Don't you think it's time to get wealthy? I'm Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach, and my new show on the Black Star Network focuses on the things your financial advisor

or bank isn't telling you. So watch Get Wealthy on the Blackstar Network. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are Black beyond measure. Hello, I'm Bishop T.D. J. Hi, how y'all doing? It's your favorite funny girl, Amanda Seals. Hi, I'm Anthony Brown from Anthony Brown and Group Therapy. What's up, I'm Lana Well, and you are watching Rolling Markets. For black and brown entrepreneurs, securing capital to begin a business isn't the easiest process. For some, they would say downright impossible. An Atlanta organization is at the forefront of helping folks who look like us access capital.

Partnership for Southern Equity is teaming up with the Rockefeller Foundation for the Just Capital Initiative to help small businesses get started. The founder of PSE, Nathaniel Smith, is here to tell us more about this initiative. He joins us from Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Hello, Ms. Presley, how are you? I am great, especially when I hear about things like this because, man, oh man, you know, we can spend all day, and we need to talking about criminal justice and talking about civil rights and talking about voting and talking about all of that but if our people can't make a start a business and have it survive you know the money really the equity is where is that and

so I'm always excited when I hear about people who are helping to enable entrepreneurs to start right and then to finish right, or to keep going right, I should say. Tell us a little bit about your organization and what you're doing. Well, thank you again for this opportunity to share our work. Again, my name is Nathaniel Smith,

and I serve as the founder and chief equity officer of the Partnership for Southern Equity. We work every day with our partners to realize what we call a new southern agenda for racial equity and shared prosperity in the American South. And one of our important areas, we are a multi-issue organization, is to really begin the process of working to realize a new economy, an economy that provides equitable opportunities for black communities and historically disinvested communities of color. We understand that, you know, it is not by happenstance that black businesses historically have not had access to capital. It is not by happenstance that many of the key pillars of our economy have been really dripped dry as a result of a history of extreme exploitation and structural racism. And by knowing that truth, we have to create new ways and opportunities for businesses, Black businesses,

to have not only access to capital, but also being in a position to help to cultivate their civic capital, their civic capacity to engage around issues related to public policy as they become more competitive as it relates to opportunities to acquire capital to grow their businesses. So this is in partnership with the Rockefeller Foundation and what's happening? Is there like an application process? Is there a training program? How are you assisting them in getting funds? Well, the first thing that we did, and again, we're just so appreciative of being in a position to partner with the Rockefeller Foundation. You know, for us, it was really, really important to really truly understand the nature of the problem. And so what we had an opportunity to do with several partners is to begin the process of really evaluating what are the businesses, the perception that commercial banks have about black businesses and that relationship to risk, all have minimized opportunities for black businesses to have opportunities to acquire capital in order to grow. And then on top of that, you know, there are some capacity challenges in helping black

businesses understand what is required to keep a strong budget, to develop marketing strategies, to apply for federal grants as well as philanthropic grants. And so what we've done with the support of Rockefeller is to really develop a wraparound engagement strategy called the Just Capital Initiative, where we are working with 30 black micro businesses in the city of Atlanta to train them, to support them in understanding the various aspects of business that they need in order to be successful. We're providing grant dollars for these organizations to really strengthen the various aspects of their businesses in order to be competitive for grant funding. And even more so, and this is really connected to the history of Atlanta and the history of civic engagement in black businesses,

reintroducing them to their own political power and really helping them understand that a closed mouth civically does not get fed. And we want to do what we can to make sure they're engaged in the political process as well. Absolutely. That's all music to my ears. Now, how long have you all been doing this in conjunction with Rockefeller? So we've been doing this with Rockefeller now for two years. The organization has been around for 11 years now, and we've just been are positioned to reach their full potential.

And in order to do that, we have to understand the historical barriers that we have and the structural barriers that we have and hold their hand and support them in ways that will help to cultivate that agency. And that is a deep, deep commitment for the partnership with Southern Equity. And again, we're just really happy, you know, to work with the Rockefeller Foundation. You know, we believe as an organization, so goes the South, so goes the nation. And we believe that the work that we're doing with Rockefeller, you know, as we continue to grow, we'll be able to translate into real success in other places, not just around the South, but around the country.

Well, absolutely, because, you know, I want to I'm going to go to the panel, but I want to to close the circle, as my colleagues would say, and tie up some loose ends and that we watched week before last Vice President Kamala Harris making a big announcement about the the the Equal Opportunity Commission, the Economic Opportunity Commission, that the government is doing joint partnering with 20 organizations and or companies, one of which was the Rockefeller Foundation, in order to bring dollars. They're committing billions of dollars over a period of years,

have already been doing it, you're the proof, have already been doing it, but are going to be doing more of it. And for me, it always comes back to the vote. I'm going to tell y'all until you hear me that when you look at billions of dollars in commitments and when you see the proof right here on this show that what we pay attention to, where we put our interest is what grows. I hope y'all can hear me. It's today's primary Tuesday. I don't have any election results or anything right now, but I'll just keep bothering people. Okay. Keep talking. Keep talking. You know what? They can't shut me up. It ain't gonna happen. Let's go to Dr. Walker first. Do you have a question for our guests? Yeah, I do. You highlighted, you know,

a lot of important issues that you're focusing on helping, you know, primarily Black communities build capital. One of the things I want to ask you about is relating to not only helping, you know, individuals, entities get started, but another conversation we don't have enough of in Black communities about, you know, I don't want to term it generational wealth. So I'm curious if not only you're helping these companies, you know, get access to capital, but also you have in terms of long-term strategy, in terms of building, you know, generational wealth in the Black community from one generation to the next. So you also have a conversation with the individuals you're supporting. Well, I tell you, I mean, that again is one of the biggest historic barriers that Black businesses have in comparison to white businesses, this access to generational wealth. And again,

it is not just because Black people don't save. It is because of things like redlining and the subprime market and the challenges that we faced around highways being built on top of our communities and the lack of real estate value as a result of tax policies. So, you know, understanding that history requires us to really begin the process of advancing a strategy that is not just focused on wealth accumulation, but also healing and repair. And through the work of the Just Capital Initiative, we are trying our best to really circumvent

the history of lack of capital for businesses. And of course, through our training and education work, we're doing what we can to make sure that these micro businesses understand that it's important to leave something behind. But another thing that I think that we've turned away from that has also helped us to be successful is cooperative economics. Right. You know, how can we find ways to ensure that we partner and work with businesses that bring value to the markets that we are engaged in and through the Just Capital cohort. For us, it's not just about positioning to be successful individually, but also how can we create a village

of organizations that can work together cooperatively? You know, one of the things that I'm really excited about is that at the end of the Just Capital program, the people that are involved, the businesses that are involved actually work together to decide about where $40,000 in resources will go within the context of the cohort. And so they decide what businesses are the closest to being successful because they understand that as these businesses wrap up and become successful, they now have a mentality of cooperative economics, and they understand that those businesses will reach back and provide capital and support those businesses so they can come up as

well. So, you know, it is important to have that conversation, but we have old curses that we're trying to work through, and we're trying to do the best we can to do that with our partners. Dr. Mustafa? Yeah, family, it's good to see you. Hey, man, it's good to see you. Yes, yes. Looking down as always. Well, I get lucky every now and then. You know, your work, my work about moving our communities from surviving to thriving changes the paradigm. And, you know, one of the interesting things, and I'd love for you to expound on this, especially with the work that you're doing with this initiative, is that, you know, we've got trillions of dollars through the bipartisan infrastructure bill. We've got the CHIPS Act. And now we most recently have the Inflation Reduction Act. And I continue to share with folks that if you are an entrepreneur or if

you are not yet an entrepreneur, you should be starting your business to be able to get engaged with this, both on the contracting and subcontracting side, and of course, the grant side that's also out there. Can you walk folks through these various sets of opportunities where literally our tax dollars are right there at our fingertips to be used to build our businesses and what folks should be thinking about and how your organization helps prepare folks. Well, I can't thank you enough for that question. I mean, you know, one of the most important things that we have to understand and for us as an organization, we're really excited, is that we have an administration now that understands that you can't put good money into bad systems. If you put good money and good resources in the bad systems, you will continue to

get unfortunate and inequitable results. And also, we have an administration that understands that for many, many years, our federal government has contributed to the barriers created by structural racism in our nation and has attempted through, whether it be the racial equity executive order or the policy around Justice 40, which is requiring 40 percent of all resources around environmental remediation to go to disinvested communities, or recent conversations around ensuring that capital is flowing into businesses owned by communities of color. It's about creating these new on-ramps that understand how current systems, and we saw that through the PPP debacle, will continue to exacerbate the challenges that we face

around structural racism, if we're not only calling out, I mean, we can't just call out racism within the context of our economy, within the context of our environment and the other areas that PSC is working in. We have to play our part in disrupting those systems and creating new ones. And so, you know, I'm just really excited that we have an administration that is finally beginning to create these delivery systems that are a true reflection of what we need. ground, nonprofits in particular, to actually grow the capacity of organizations and the ability of these organizations to compete for the resources that are being made available. I think that's another important point, Mustafa, is that we've got to do what we can, you know, the organizations that are on the outside of the federal government to help these organizations

that have been left behind for so long that love and respect and want to support our communities to actually compete and rise to the occasion in ways that will position them towards the type of and position them in a way to receive the resources that are being made available now by the administration. And best for the last, Randy. Thank you so much for being here. As a person who has owned her own company for over 20 years, you are so needed, and the work you're doing is so valuable.

What I was wondering, I just saw a statistic, I think yesterday, that only 1% of capital, only 1% of venture capital money goes to Black-owned businesses. One percent, which is quite sad. And so I am wondering, as the government is now aware that, of course, we need capital, are you also working with venture capitalists and also banks? When you look at the statistics of how few loans we are given in comparison to our white counterparts, is there work being done in that area to ensure there is some equity and inclusion? Well, let me thank you for the question. Let me just acknowledge the fact since we're on a black network that no business has had to work so hard with so little than the black business.

We've had to fight the lack of capital as well as racism in order to go to flow, to flourish and prosper in this society. And so, you know, unfortunately that, that history had continues to have negative residue that we have to continue to wipe off of us as we try to really permeate the VC market. And in Atlanta, you know, we have many emerging Black VCs that are attempting to try to alleviate that challenge. But unfortunately, those challenges are still being realized. And so, you know, one of the things that we also have to acknowledge is that, you know, as an organization, the Partnership for Southern Equity is trying to lift up our voice to encourage non-conventional VCs to look at, you know, Black businesses as

places where genius lives. We also, though, in connection to the VC environment, have to make resources that have to be reshaped and restructured in ways that can get to us. And if we're not organized and positioned to speak out, to influence our elected officials and educate them about what is needed in our communities, to put public service in place that care about the revitalization of our communities and vote the ones that don't out, we will not have the dual strategy of private capital and public capital that we need to rise out of the whole of structural racism that Black people have had to deal with for over 400 years. Vote them out. Yes, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, Mr. Smith, we appreciate you. We appreciate the work that you're doing. Please tell those who are watching now and who shall watch in the future.

How do they find you? Well, you can find us by going to the Partnership for Southern Equity website. It is www.psequity.org. You can find out about the work that we're doing in the space of economic inclusion by going to our Just Opportunity portfolio. Again, we would love to make new friends and hopefully continue to help grow this movement in the South for racial justice and shared prosperity. Thank you so much. We appreciate you. Thank you. And that is it for us tonight on Roland Martin Unfiltered.

I'm going to say the biggest, biggest thank you to this panel of brilliant, thoughtful, compassionate, passionate experts, Mustafa Santiago compassionate, passionate experts, Mustafa Santiago Ali, Randy Bryant, Larry J. Walker. Thank you. You make it really, really easy to do this job. And thankfully, I don't have to do it tomorrow, but you're not rid of me because I'll be back here on panel.

So be here 6 p.m. Eastern to talk about tomorrow's news. And as I said yesterday, you can join me tomorrow at noon on IG Live. Make it make sense. Hosted by moi. Would love to see you there. Thank you, everyone. Have a great night. Bye bye. When you talk about blackness and what happens in black culture, you're about covering these things that matter to us, speaking to our issues and concerns. This is a genuine people-powered movement.

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