#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Fmr. S.C. Deputy Fired & Charged, Texas Correctional Officer Dies On Duty, 1-on 1 w. Cenk Uygur

Episode Date: December 9, 2023

12.8.2023 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Fmr. S.C. Deputy Fired & Charged, Texas Correctional Officer Dies On Duty, 1-on 1 w. Cenk Uygur A South Carolina deputy is out of a job and facing criminal assault charges for punching a black man in the face multiple times during an arrest. The legal team representing Rashard Duncan is here to give us details about this case.  A Texas family is still waiting for answers about how their loved one died while working as a correctional officer assisting in an inmate extraction. Jovian Motley's family attorney is here to explain this bizarre case.  The overall unemployment rate took a dip in November, but for black men, it jumped over a whole point. We'll talk to an economist about why the number of black men is on the rise. And I sat down with author and founder of the Young Turks, Cenk Uygur, about his new book, "Justice is Coming: How Progressives Are Going to Take Over the Country and America Is Going to Love It."  You don't want to miss that conversation  Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV. The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.

Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does.

It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Today is Friday, December 8th, 2023. Coming up, I'm Roland Bar-Dunfield streaming live on the Black Star Network. A South Carolina deputy is out of a job

and facing criminal assault charges for punching a black man in the face multiple times during an arrest. We'll talk with the legal team for Rashard Duncan. A Texas family is still waiting for answers about how their loved one died while working as a correctional officer assisting in an inmate extraction.

Jovion Motley's family attorney will join us. The overall unemployment rate took a dip in November, but for black men, it jumped more than a point. We'll talk to an economist about the numbers. Also, I sat down with the author and founder of the Young Turks, Cenk Uygur, about his new book, Justice is Coming, how progressives are going to take over the country and America is going to love it.

Yeah, it got a little hot in this conversation. It is time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin on the filter on the Black Star Network. Let's go. Puttin' it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rollin' Yeah, yeah It's Uncle Roro, y'all Yeah, yeah

It's Rollin' Martin Yeah, yeah Rollin' with Rollin' now Yeah, yeah He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best You know he's rolling, Martel Martel A former South Carolina sheriff's deputy is out of a job

and facing assault charges for beating a suspect and a supervisor got demoted for not filing paperwork in a timely manner. A former South Carolina sheriff's deputy is out of a job and facing assault charges for beating a suspect, and his supervisor got demoted for not filing paperwork in a timely manner. James Hank Carter has been charged with misconduct in office. That's a third-degree assault and battery charges. This took place against Rashard Duncan. His supervisor, Tim Carroll, was demoted from sergeant to master deputy for waiting 19 days to turn in the use of force packet to his supervisors. On October 21st, after a brief high speed and foot chase, Carter punched Duncan several times in the face. It's all on body cam

video that's been released by the Charleston County Sheriff's Office. Check this out. Hey, you done, son? Get down. Get the fuck down. Get down. Get the fuck down. Get down. Get the fuck down, dude. You think I'm fucking playing? Quit reaching in your fucking waistband, dude. Quit reaching in your waistband.

You think I'm messing with you? You got a gun? You got a gun? You don't know? No. I got him. I'm back here. I got you. It's your boy.

You'll see. It's your boy.'ll see it's your boy because you're reaching in your fucking waistband that's why i'm giving a shit what you're reaching for dude negative just one person. I think he's slick. Enjoy that little nap. Joining me from Rashad Duncan's legal team in North Charleston, South Carolina, Enjoy that little nap. Joining me from Rashard Duncan's legal team in North Charleston, South Carolina,

attorney Marvin Pindervars and investigator Kevin Hollings-Shed Senior. Glad to have both of you here. So, first off, there was a car chase. What happened here? Why were they chasing him? Well, first off, thank you for having us on this evening, Mr. Martin. So I'll tell you exactly what happened. There was a high speed chase that took place with Mr. Duncan. There were some sheriff's deputies from Charleston County on October 21st of this year that were chasing him. Ultimately, that high speed chase led to Mr to Mr. Duncan getting to his home near

his residence, where he then left the car, fled on foot. This particular deputy, former deputy Carter, pursued Mr. Duncan on foot. At some point, Mr. Duncan had positioned himself in a position of surrender. He had basically had—he was on his knees. He had his hands down by his side, essentially saying, I give up, I surrender. But notwithstanding that, this deputy continued and assaulted him, as you saw in the video, grabbed him by the neck, punched him in the face, threw him to the ground, and continued to hit him in the face with closed fists about eight more times. And so clearly he's punching him because he's pissed. It's not like he needed to punch him to subdue him.

That's exactly right, and that's why it was determined that what he was doing was excessive. He was fired once it came to light. But what he did was was certainly excessive and over the top and not necessary to subdue him or to gain control of the situation. Have you all uncovered any other actions by this officer, by this former officer, his supervisor? Absolutely. And actually what's come out is this particular deputy not only had a history with Mr. Duncan, which shows that there was some personal animus that he had already had toward this particular suspect, and he was essentially a ticking time bomb, but he's already been sued before. This deputy has had previous complaints filed against him for similar conduct. There was an incident where he had he essentially chased another young man, a black man, and assaulted him with his flashlight and knocked him out cold.

Right. And so this particular pattern of conduct is something that is not new to Mr. Duncan situation. This is something that this not new to Mr. Duncan's situation. This is something that this deputy has been known for. And again, he's had prior instances where he's been reprimanded and written up and had complaints filed against him because of his misconduct. And so as this investigation unfolds, we start to learn more information about this particular deputy. So what is next for your team? Well, obviously, we're going to be pursuing legal action. But right now, what we've done is

we've asked for the Sheriff's Office to release all the video that they have so that the public can see exactly what happened, how it unfolded, and what happened to Mr. Duncan. Two, we want to make sure that there is a thorough, thorough investigation into this sheriff's office. What I will tell you is what happened to Mr. Duncan is just not isolated to him. This sheriff's office has had a history of misconduct recently

and certainly in past instances where victims have been victimized by deputies. And so we've got to make sure that we uncover what's going on. But more alarming, and I believe you alluded to at the beginning where the supervisor who was involved in this was reprimanded because of his conduct, we've got to find out who else has been complicit in this, right? was, you know, the manner by which this deputy acted, being so irate, being so ready to assault this young man and bring about physical harm on him immediately, it begs the question, one, of obviously the history that they've had, but also who else knew about this? Who else was complicit in this? Was there anybody else that tried to basically brush this under the rug? Yeah, we commend the sheriff's office for ultimately

firing him and bringing charges against him. But, you know, who else is involved? And how long has this kind of conduct been going on? It speaks to the training that's going on at the sheriff's office, the hiring practices at the sheriff's office. And it's something that we intend to get to the bottom of as we pursue legal action, but obviously making sure that we get an investigation as well. All right. Gentlemen, anything else? Well, the last thing I'll tell you, Mr. Martin, and probably one of the most alarming things about this is, you know, there's a narrative that's being put out there that essentially is trying to disparage and bring a disrepute to the victim. And so often in these cases where you've got law enforcement that's attacked and caused harm to someone, they try to bring the victim's past life or what's happening to try to justify the officer's actions. And there was a quote by the officer's attorney who said, and I'm paraphrasing a bit, but

basically he said, if the officer does not have a complaint filed against him, then an officer is not doing his job. And that's alarming because that promotes that kind of conduct that tells these officers that it's OK, that essentially you've got to do what you've got to do to gain compliance and to make sure that people listen to you and do what you have to do on the streets. And they're real victims. It can cost people's lives. Thankfully, Mr. Duncan is here to tell his story. But the next person might not be. And that's why we're here to talk about it. That's why we're pursuing legal action. And we thank you for the opportunity to share Mr. Duncan's story. All right, gentlemen, I sure appreciate it.

Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. Folks, going to a break. We'll come back. We'll chat with my panel. Also, lots of other stuff we're going to talk about on today's show. Folks, you don't want to miss this. Do not forget, folks, support is what we do.

First, if you're watching on YouTube, hit that like button, y'all. Hit that like button, all right? Make it happen. Second of all, you can join our Bring the Funk fan club. See and check in money orders at PO Box 57196, Washington, D.C., 20037-0196. Cash app, dollar sign, RM Unfiltered, PayPal, RMartin Unfiltered. Venmo is RM Unfiltered. Zale, Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartin unfiltered zale rolling at rolling smartin.com rolling

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is going to prompt a major aha moment in our culture. You crystallize it by saying, who are we to other people? Who are African people to others? Governance is our thing. Who are we to each other? The structures we create for ourselves, how we order the universe as African people. That's next on The Black Table,

here on The Black Star Network. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion- dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way.

Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown.

We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Dee Barnes, and on the next Frequency, Professor Janelle Hopson joins us to talk about hip hop and its intersection with feminism and racial equality, plus her enlightening work with Ms. Magazine

and how the great Harriet Tubman connects with women in hip hop. So it was not hard for me to go from Harriet Tubman to hip hop, honestly, because it is a legacy of Black women's resistance and Black women supporting our communities. That's what Harriet Tubman did. That's on The Tubman did.

That's on the frequency on the Black Star Network. What's up, everybody? It's your girl Latasha from the A. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, folks, let's welcome our panel to today's show. Joining us is Michael M. Hotep, host of the African History Network show out of Detroit. Monique Presley, legal analyst and host of Make It Make Sense with Monique Presley. Matt Manning, civil rights attorney out of Corpus Christi.

You know, I'm going to start with you, Matt. You know, we see these stories constantly. And one, it's shocking, this cop was actually fired. But here's part of the thing that we often see. A lot of times they get their jobs back as well. And I said it last night, and I'm going to keep saying it. Thank goodness there's video. Because in too many of these cases, they would have said, oh, he assaulted them,

he had a gun, he pointed it pointed at them and everything like that. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I'm glad that they had a video here because here the account is not going to be really in question. I know that there is a question now about whether a racial epithet was used, but it sounds like I heard it. I'm not sure if y'all heard it when he he said I don't remember exactly what he said. But at some point, he sounded like he used the N-word in referencing him. But in any event, I'm glad that there's video. What I'm hoping for here is that there is a an actual civil judgment, because what you find sometimes in these circumstances is really one of two things. Either the county will say he was acting on his own. We're not going to indemnify him.

We're not going to cover his damages or they'll recognize recognize the right thing, and they'll actually pay for the damages. So I'm hoping that's what happens here. But this happens every day, recorded and unrecorded. And to your point, I mean, I've had crazy cases where officers have done things just as bad or worse and not only gotten their jobs back, but gotten back pay. So some of that is the unions and what they negotiate in these contracts. And to that end, I would say, really, this is why legislation is important, not only legislation relating to qualified immunity, but also legislation requiring, for instance, if you have a deputy working for your county who does something like this while on the clock, you don't get to get

out of paying for it. What happens a lot of times in these cases is they separate themselves from the deputy and find a way to say that the county is not liable because of the current state of our civil rights laws in this country. And until we have that institutional fix in Congress, we're going to continue to have the problems that I have every day when I prosecute these cases. But until Congress fixes this, Monique, you have an aggressive Department of Justice Civil Rights Division that hopefully in this case, you're going to have the D.A. do their job and prosecute this guy. But thank goodness we have a D.O.J. that's actually holding police and jail wardens and others responsible? Absolutely. Absolutely. They are doing a better job of it than we have seen in several administrations. And I admire that job that they are doing. This case, as the attorneys, the attorney who you interviewed said,

this is not isolated. It's very obvious, not just from the manner in which this one officer was conducting himself, but he's on a live line. Everybody can hear what's being said. Everybody knows what he's doing. When they come around, nobody's trying to stop him. It's a climate, it's a culture, it's a way of training, which to me is different than lack of training. It's a way of training that is unnecessarily aggressive. The one part that I do believe is a concern that they will use in the defense of the case is that it seems like the suspect was being apprehended at acknowledged that he was doing some reaching. I couldn't hear what he said about what he was reaching for, but that will end up at the front of the defense of this officer's actions.

This also, I'm always trying to say, Michael, voting has consequences. And when people out here, they go, well, I'm not seeing this, not seeing that. Look, I totally understand the folks who are upset that the George Floyd Justice Act did not get passed. But let me also remind people that bill that passed by Congress only applied to federal. Correct. Federal, not state. Yes. When you look at prisons, 90% of the people who are in prison are in local and state jails. Ten percent is in federal. And so what you have to have is that people are sitting here only looking to Biden and Harris.

Hey, where's the bill? No. Well, they should be demanding to their governors and their state representatives, state senators. Where are your bills, city councils? How are you changing negotiations to make sure these things don't continue to happen? Sustained. Yeah, I totally agree. This is something I've been saying. This is why, you know, we need to go back and read the U.S. Constitution because, unfortunately, people don't understand the division of government. The majority of control over policing is not at the federal level. It's based at the state and local level because of the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which gives states rights. So even though the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act, you know, would have been powerful and we still need to push for that, there's a lot that we can do at the local levels. You have to vote for state

legislature. You have to vote for governors as well, is at the city council. But the other point that gets oftentimes left out of this conversation, Roland, is that right now across the country there's a nationwide shortage of police officers. You've dealt with this here on the show. You've had police experts on, former police officers as well. So even though I'm in agreement with everything that's talked about here today, but at the same time, this is a huge opportunity for African Americans to seize power in these police departments and apply to these police departments and become the type of officers that we say that we want to see at the same time. Oftentimes, we hear reports come

out every now and then that say white supremacists have infiltrated the police department. I've said that's a lie. White supremacists have always been in the police departments. I'm a historian. You cannot find a time in the history of this country when white supremacists have not been in the police departments. I say African Americans should also infiltrate the police departments and seize power because we have people matriculating out. We have people going into other professions. So this is also, in addition to everything, in addition to legislation, is a grand opportunity to seize power in these police departments as well. Indeed. All right, folks, hold tight one second. I'm going to break. We come back and update on what happened today in the Jonathan Majors case out of New York City. Also, we'll talk to the

Texas family demanding answers for why their loved one was killed during a prisoner extraction. You're watching Rolling Martin Unfiltered right here on the Blackstar Network. Hatred on the streets, a horrific scene, a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence. White people are losing their damn lives. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storm to the U.S. Capitol. We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there

has been what Carol Anderson at every university calls white rage as a backlash. This is the wrath of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. There's all the Proud Boys, guys. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is The Culture. The Culture is a two-way conversation.

You and me, we talk about the stories, politics, the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. So join our community every day at 3 p.m. Eastern and let your voice be heard. Hey, we're all in this together. So let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into. It's the culture. Weekdays at 3, only on the Blackstar Network. Hi, I'm Joe Marie Payton, voice of Sugar Mama on Disney's Louder and Prouder Disney+. And I'm with Roland Martin on Unfiltered. Today was the fourth and final day that the ex-girlfriend of Jonathan Majors testified in his misdemeanor assault trial there in New York City. In today, text messages from Majors to her were actually admitted from a previous incident. This here is from, let me pull this up, folks, from the Rolling Stone. And so based upon what was entered into evidence today in court, in these text messages,

he wrote, I fear you have no perspective what could happen if you go to the hospital. They will ask you questions. This is what he texts to Grace Jabari. He also said, and as I don't think you actually protect us, it could lead to an investigation even if you do lie and they suspect something. She responded, why would I tell them what really happened when it's clear I want to be with you? I will tell the doctor I bumped my head. I will not go to the doctor if you don't feel safe with me doing so. I'm going to give it one more day, but I can't sleep and I need some stronger pain killers. Over the last four days, she's been under a withering cross-examination by the defense.

And you test about earlier another day that she actually hit him first, snatching the phone out of his hand. Now, keep in mind, this is a misdemeanor trial that they've taken to a full trial here. It's all started based upon what took place in an incident in a car on March 25th between Majors and the ex-girlfriend. Let's go back to my panel. I'll start with you, Monique. Sitting here, again, watching this, Obviously, the prosecution is putting their case on. They had an ex-girlfriend testify in this case right here. They're entering in text from

a previous incident trying to lay out this sort of this narrative that they're dealing with an absolute monster in Jonathan Majors. Your perspective. Go ahead. You're muted. You're muted. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one.

The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened

when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, It's really, really, really bad. Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real

from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Can you hear me now? You ain't done this in a while? Go ahead.

I was trying to eat some chicken during the break, actually. Lord. So I just heard the case through the opening statement up until these days of testimony has been trying to cast this defendant as the big, scary, evil black man, the boogeyman, and hope that there is smear enough to erase the actual facts of the case, the actual timeline of the case, the actual facts of how the rift between them started. And as you know, Roland, it started with the former girlfriend committing an assault against Mr. Majors because grabbing at someone's property, grabbing at their hand in property, taking it. That is a crime in New York City, and that's why she was arrested.

And I still don't have an answer yet for why the charges were not pressed by the prosecutor's office, why there was a declination. Maybe that was part of their agreement with her. I don't know. But in general, the way that the prosecution has handled this says to me that they fear their case is not strong enough on its own and they need to color and taint all things about the defendant, Mr. Majors, in order to be successful. Your assessment, Matt. So first, I think Monique is right in all respects. And I thought about this. So, what the viewers probably need to know is, I don't know how it works in New York,

but at least in Texas, and I would imagine a lot of jurisdictions, in domestic violence cases, you can put on evidence that's not germane to the exact issue if you're trying to show the relationship. So, in Texas, we would call this 404B evidence, where a judge would say, you can put on evidence of damning text or something else that shows the complexity and the nature of their relationship. Monique is exactly right. This is what prosecutors are trying to do. They're trying to use extraneous stuff to show that he's a big, bad boogeyman. I will say, though, from a defense standpoint, I actually think this can

still be leveraged because if the question is her credibility, right, and her willingness to either be dishonest or to lie, then if there are text messages where she's showing that she's willing to engage in that, it at the very least should cause the jury to question whether the version of events as it relates to this discrete issue is really what she said happened or whether they have a reasonable doubt. And while, you know, if I were defending him, I would be concerned about how these texts may look, to some extent, I might also think that it could be leveraged, because it's very clear that there were assaultive behaviors on her behalf,

and that it's not as simple as, he allegedly assaulted her and it's that it. There's a lot more to it. So I would think that that's why the defense, you know, subjected her to a withering cross-examination for seven hours. And you gotta got to consider the overall context here is they only need one person on that jury to hang up. One person keeps him, you know, not being found guilty. So one person having a reasonable doubt is enough to keep him convicted.

Michael, your thoughts? You know, Roland, I was reading through this article from People.com dealing with this, and I've been following the trial a little bit. I remember when these allegations first came out, even before this went to trial. However, this turns out, this doesn't look good for Jonathan Majors, one. And two, you know, it's a shame whether he's guilty or not. It's a shame when you have an African-American man who has his career derailed by either actions he did or allegations about what he did and turns out not to be, you know, not to be guilty. So we'll see how this turns out. These text messages don't look good. It gives the impression of some type of cover up or something like that.

But we'll see how this turns out. But I saw his trajectory of his career going this way, going up. And then this happens and then he's going down. Oh, well, absolutely. I mean, he was about to blow up when this happened. I mean, the Marvel stuff, other movies with Michael B. Jordan, you name it. And so, yeah, obviously he's trying to stay out of jail and trying to salvage his career. So, again, prosecutors prosecutors putting their case on. We'll see what happens when court resumes on Monday. Gotta go to break.

We come back. We're gonna talk with Texas family who's trying to get answers. Why did their loved one, a jail guard, how did he die when five officers went to a unit to extract an inmate but only one person came out dead, and that was

his brother. We'll discuss that next on Rolling Mark Unfiltered right here on the Black Star Network. When you talk about blackness and what happens in black culture, we're about covering these things that matter to us, speaking to our issues and concerns. This is a genuine people-powered movement. There's a lot of stuff that we're not getting. You get it, and you spread the word. We wish to plead our own cause

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Be job ready and qualify for in-demand jobs. Hello, I'm Paula J. Parker. Truly proud of the proud family. Louder and prouder on Disney+. And you're watching Roland March Unfiltered. A Texas family is demanding answers about how correctional officer Jovian Motley ended up dead when trying to perform an inmate extraction

at the Wainwright Prison. According to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the 27-year-old died on November 13th after working on a five-man extraction team tasked with restraining an inmate. Earlier this week, Motley's family viewed the video footage of the incident but said they still need answers. Joining us now is the Motley family attorney, Justin Moore. So, Justin, what did y'all see on this video? So, what we saw in the video wasn't much at all, which highlights a huge, important issue that we have in our jails and prisons here in Texas currently, which is when these five-man extraction teams go into, in a sense, rate of sale, these officers aren't wearing body cameras to make sure footage is being captured.

So what we saw on Monday didn't provide us any answers into how Jovi and Miley died. If anything, it created more questions. So, you know, I got an email from the family about this, and they said, look, they hadn't been getting anything from Department of Corrections. Well, up until this past Monday, that was the case. So the Department of Corrections, they had not been transparent about what happened to their son. And they've been giving the family the runaround. I think now, as soon as Monday came by, they heard the outpouring of support from the community. So really, they realized that their feet were against the wall or their backs were against the wall. And they actually needed to start providing some type of answers to this family

in regards to what happened to Mr. Miley. I'm confused. He was one of their employees. They're treating him like he was one of the inmates. That's the curious part about it, right? You have this young black man who was an employee who's now being treated like he's an inmate. This family has been, you know,

they've been embarrassed by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. They've been, you know, given the runaround on every turn when it comes to them asking for questions. Even on Monday when we showed up to the Texas Department of Public Service to view this video, they made this family wait for hours, wait for hours in a waiting room. They were denied giving access to their immediate family and supporters to view the video. Things that you wouldn't suspect a law enforcement officer who died in the line of duty, you wouldn't expect their family to have to go through. It really raises questions about how does the Texas Department of Criminal

Justice treat its black workers, its black staff members, its black corrections officers, in comparison to the officers that are actually white. I would submit to you that there is a disparity in treatment here, and unfortunately, it's coming out to bear with this family. But nevertheless, we're going to keep on fighting, and we're going to get to the bottom of why Jovi and Miley and his family are being treated as less than. So, yeah, the fight continues. And they haven't given you any real answer as to what happened?

No. They've given us grainy, I think it was handheld camera footage that has no real answer provided to it. What we do know, though, which is through circumstantial evidence that has been gathered through our own investigation, is that the lieutenant that ordered this five-man cell extraction had an ongoing relationship with this inmate in which they were, you know, not seeing eye to eye, so to speak. This inmate had been asking for relief for three days. You know, the inmate makes claims that they weren't feeding him properly. He makes claims that he needed to be in a mental health ward as opposed to being on that particular floor in the jail. And he was making valid complaints to this lieutenant. And the lieutenant just got fed up and he was making valid complaints to this lieutenant and the lieutenant just got fed

up and he ordered a five-man cell extraction that i fully believe could quite possibly be a civil rights violation so not only did this lieutenant get pissed off at this inmate for asking for things that he so desperately needed he decided to use uh the corrections officers in this facility as a tool for his for his outrage against his inmate. And unfortunately, we have a corrections officer who lost his life due to the fact that a lieutenant cannot keep his ego in check. So I do think, you know, if there is a cover up, that's the basis of it. It emanates from this lieutenant abusing his power and using his staff members, his employees, as instruments and tools for his abuse of power. Questions for the panel. Michael, you first.

All right, attorney. Thanks for coming on. And this is definitely a tragedy. This was Jovian was a 27-year-old brother. Just curious, I know as you try to get more details in this case, oftentimes when we talk about, say, prison reform, things like that, we don't talk about creating safer environments for the prison guards. Has there been any talk in the state of Texas, as well as maybe behind this tragedy or previous ones, about instituting safer measures to protect prison guards as well? Well, anyone in the state of Texas knows that, you know, the hiring in our prisons is underwhelming, right? Our prisons are chronically understaffed, and it's putting those that are actually working there in increased danger. So that's one. Two, the fact that we have these cell extractions and the officers aren't wearing body cams. Now, the fact that we have these cell extractions and

the officers aren't wearing body cams. Now, the body cams aren't going to make officers safer. But when it comes to issues like these, when an officer gets injured or loses his life, we can pinpoint how that happened. The fact that neither of these officers wore a body cam, we don't know what happened. We don't know if it was the inmate that killed this young man or if it was another officer who accidentally killed an officer. Right. We don't know. And I think the way that we can get to the bottom of this and to ensure that we can start putting policies and procedures in place to not only protect our officers, but also protect our inmates who need protection as well. We need our officers. We need our officers wearing body cams throughout our state

facilities here in Texas. Thank you. What was the cause of death? We're still waiting for autopsy results. What was... You're waiting for the family's autopsy or you're waiting

for the autopsy that was done by the government, by the correctional department? So the correctional department, you know, they have an autopsy that is pending. The family is getting an independent autopsy. As of right now, we haven't gotten any results yet. What has been preliminarily reported to the family is that there was asphyxiation. But there's no signs of strangulation. What we have been talking with the special prosecutor that has been investigating this case is he is investigating this inmate for choking out Mr. Motley. But what we do know is that there is an evidence of strangulation, which creates an even greater cloud as to how this young man died.

So the autopsy will either corroborate that, you know, he was strangled to death, or it's going to create more questions that we need to get answers to into how did he die due to asphyxiation if he wasn't strangled. So it's been since November 13th, I'm assuming. So you don't have that autopsy. Has the second one been done yet? So the second one can only be done after the county does theirs. And they're— Yeah.

I mean, but they've got to be finished, right? You're waiting on a report. But, I mean, so they're holding on to his body is what you're saying. Correct. Well, no, no, Mr. No, Mr. Miley was buried last this past weekend, but they're holding on to his vital organs. Gotcha. Matt. Well, first, let me say I actually learned about this from your Instagram page, Justin. So thank you for the work you're doing and thank you for running for Congress. We need you to represent us here, brother. But my question to you is, is there a workman's comp angle to this? What has TDCJ said about their responsibility to the family considering he passed away in the line

of duty? That's what I'm interested in. What have they said about, you know, what his family's entitled to in that respect, if anything? Yeah, you know, not to get into attorney-client privilege, but there is a workman's comp angle, but there's also a gross negligence angle as well. So just generally and broadly speaking, a person can take advantage of workman's comp benefits and still sue an employer for gross negligence. And we believe that there is gross negligence here. So we're actively going to pursue the civil process and investigate those claims from a gross negligence perspective. All right. Question rolling.

Yeah, go ahead. One more question. Go ahead. So I know CDCJ has these crisis or rather cell intervention teams, I think is what they're called, because I have a case involving one now. Have you been able to see their policies? Because when I was working my case related to it, it seems like they don't really have policies on that. And it's kind of nebulous. They're just able to do whatever they want. Has that been what y'all have found in terms of policies without going too far into the privilege stuff? I mean, that is what we have seen. And from my work, working with prisoners who have sued institutions for civil rights violations in the past, we know that wardens are the ones that not only dictate

and create the policies, but they're the ones that override their own policies as well. So ultimately, it really just falls into the warden's lap on how each prison is ran, if there are policies in place or if there aren't policies in place. So in this particular prison, it does seem that the warden of the Wainwright unit here in TDCJ has a system in which the policies are not sufficient and they're unable to effectively protect not just their officers but also the inmates as well. All right. Justin Morris, certainly keep us updated on this

case. Will do. Thank you, Fred. Thanks a bunch. Folks, it's been a rough week, actually, actually about rough couple of months for Ivy League presidents. Man, Claudine Gay, the president of Harvard, raked over the coals after she testified this week in Congress. Republicans have been attacking them. Also, donors of these schools have said they are not protecting Jewish students. He was one exchanged this week in that testy congressional hearing between the sister, the first black president at Harvard Harvard and Republicans in the House. Dr. Gay, did anyone contact you about flying the Israeli flag over Harvard Yard?

Yes. And the decision was made not to allow the flag to be flown over Harvard Yard? It's been standard protocol at the university for years. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser

the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary

mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes

of Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st

and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.

Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You only fly the American flag unless we have a visiting dignitary.

So the decision was made to allow the Ukraine flag to be flown over Harvard Yard? That was a decision that was made by my predecessor as an exception to a longstanding rule. So it was an exception. So you made an exception for the Ukrainian flag, but not the—the university made an exception for the Ukrainian flag, but not the Israeli flag an exception for the Ukrainian flag but not the Israeli flag that was a choice made by my predecessor are you aware that there are stickers that are placed on Harvard University Dining Services food calling for Israeli apartheid it says warning Sabra funds Israeli apartheid and the murder of Palestinians is that

acceptable I can assure you that we have strong disciplinary processes when there are violations of our rules. And this is a violation of the rules? I can't see that very clearly but... Are you not aware of the stickers being placed on the food items provided to Harvard students? I do recall an episode like that. And there are disciplinary actions ongoing? Given students' privacy and FERPA, which I'm sure you know well, I will not say more about these particular cases other than to say that disciplinary processes are underway. Dr. Gay, did anyone contact you about flying the Israeli flight? Now, what you're seeing is you see a lot of donors really, really being upset.

Harvard demands for her to resign. The president of Penn, one donor, has called for his $100 million donation to be returned. You have a billionaire, Bill Ackerman, who actually said that the president of Harvard was a diversity hire. I guess he didn't look at her bio. This here, the president, she released a statement after a lot of people criticized her testimony. Then she gave an interview with the Harvard Crimson. She said this here. I got caught up in what had become at that point an extended combative exchange about policies and procedures.

What I should have had the presence of mind to do in that moment was return to my guiding truth, which is that calls for violence against our Jewish community, threats to our Jewish students, have no place at Harvard, and will never go unchallenged. Substantly, I failed to convey what is my truth. Go to my panel, and I'll start with you, Michael. The thing here is these Ivy League presidents, they have been charged with allowing, critics say they're allowing anti-Semitism to run rampant. They are angry that they are not shutting down any of these protests at all. Then you've got these presidents who are saying,

look, if we're going to talk about free speech, is this not free speech? Now you've got the money folks. Now you've got the donors. You've got billionaires and others saying, I'm pulling my money out of Columbia, out of Harvard, out of Penn, out of these schools, angry with the reaction. What do you make of this battle that's going on between these donors, many of them Jewish, and these Ivy League schools? Well, Roland, this is, I would say, this was multi-pronged.

First of all, just so everybody knows, that was Republican Representative Elise Stefanik of New York, who is a huge Trump supporter. A lot of this is a lot of grandstanding for Fox News and right-wing conservative talk radio and things like this. I'm against what people would call hate speech against anybody, regardless of race, ethnicity, things of this nature. But when I look at now you have some Jewish donors saying that they're going to withhold donations, et cetera, you may have a situation where policies at college campuses are revised across the board. But I find it really odd. This was a congressional hearing, House of Representatives. I find it really odd that you have a congressional hearing about this, but when you have anti-Black sentiments on college campuses, Republicans are not screaming about that, okay, so even though once again, I'm against hate speech against anybody.

But a lot of this, a lot of this, especially coming from Republicans, is like selective outrage when at the same time they don't want to condemn Donald Trump for a lot of his hate speech or what people will perceive as hate speech. Here's what you have again here. What you have here going on, Monique. Bill Ackman, he is the hedge fund guy. He literally accused, go to my iPad, he's accused Claudine Gay solely of being hired because of DEI. Now, this is quite interesting when you talk about that he's also calling for these other presidents to resign. And then, you know, he talked about, oh, yeah,

she was hired because she was black. He goes on and on and on. And Amisha Cross wrote a column blasting what he had to say and others as well. And the thing that I've made perfectly clear is, let's be clear, this is the go-to for these people. It's always their go-to is, oh, you DEI. But they'll never sit here talking about these mediocre white men

who get hired and stuff along those lines. And so that's how he's attacking this sister. Sure. Well, I mean, there's nowhere else for him to go, really. He knows that he's wrong on the law. He knows that fostering free speech, even if it's speech that we don't like it. The prime place where that should be happening is in the educational setting in a university. That is where we figure out as adults who are blessed enough to go there, the way that we think, what we care about, what we don't, how to resolve conflict, how to exercise freedom of speech and freedom of restraint, the difference between hate speech and hateful speech. Now, speech that's calling black people inward is hateful.

But if you're doing it to a whole group of people, it is not by law hate speech. So that is the same for people who are Palestinian. That's the same for people who are Israeli. That's the same for people who are Chinese. It's all the same. There are things you can say broadly about a group of people and it would be hateful and horrible and immoral. It would be all of the things. What would it not be? Criminal. It would not be hate speech that can be deterred. So do we really want to have universities that are shutting down speech we don't like? Is that even what this country is about? And I think it's more telling when it comes from communities that consider themselves allies of black people.

Don't call yourself an ally when you know that the Ku Klux Klan has been a legal organization in this country since its birth. And you know exactly what they do. So if you march with me, but you don't want the Klan gone out of the face of the earth, then you got to march with me when I'm saying that these students have the right to say whatever it is they want to say. Of course, he runs his mouth. Bill Ackman does, Matt. And I'm sure Dr. Claudine Gay knows what he's talking about.

Go to my iPad because she's the Wilbert A. Coward Professor of Government and of African and African-American Studies. And so she kind of knows this stuff. She's the former dean of social science for the Faculty of Arts and Sciences. Let's see right here since, Mr. Run-His-Mouth is saying this sort of stuff. Let's see here. Before joining the Department of Government in September 2006, she was an assistant professor of political science at Stanford University,

associate professor, tenured there as well, visiting fellow at the Public Policy Institute of California, where she conducted research and published a monograph that examined voter participation in minority-dominated congressional districts. got her Ph.D. from Harvard in 1998, awarded the department's Topan Prize for the best dissertation in political science, earned a bachelor's degree in economics from Stanford University, where she graduated in 1992 with honors and distinction, and was awarded the Anna Laura Myers Prize for best

senior thesis in economics. Yeah, I guess she doesn't have a resume. Yeah, but we don't have to trot out all of her bona fides, I mean, to defend what we know is a BS argument and an attack on her, and that's too often what we have to do. We too often have to counter this BS virtue signaling by saying, but look, I am in fact good enough. We know she's good enough. Harvard would hire somebody that's not eminently qualified to be its president. That's an absurd idea. I just like this. I just like this for the people who

don't know anything about her. And matter of fact, let's go back to my iPad. Y'all this right here is her resume. Let me keep going. I ain't done yet. See, some of y'all got half page, one page. Y'all, her resume, five pages. So just for the folks out there who don't know, I think sometimes it's important to literally show the accomplishments of this sister for the folk who don't know.

Matt, go ahead. No, and I'm glad you're doing that because it's important to show the breadth of her experience. But what I'm saying is we don't have to do that, right? Because she's where she needs to be and she's eminently qualified. But beyond that, you know, it's just virtue signaling, number one, where people want to show how much they support Israel in this conflict and how much they think you are a pariah for not openly doing so. I will say, from a nuanced perspective, I am surprised that these presidents did not take a both-and approach, where they say, yeah, we soundly decry anybody making any, you know, calls for genocide, but also say that, you say that people are entitled to the free exchange

of ideas. I mean, university presidents, not to be cynical, but a lot of them are politicians, right, because they live and die by the big endowments and the money that comes in. And they operate in a more political space than people in other administrative capacities. So I'm surprised they didn't just draw that line in the sand. That seems to be the easier course. But notwithstanding that, I think Monique kind of alluded to this, colleges are places where free exchange of ideas should

occur. So the idea that, you know, we're going to castigate and criminalize, if you will, every student that says something in a highly charged conflict that has been going on for years is, one, an absurd idea, and two, is not probative of the school's value and whether they're actually going to protect the students. And I think that's what Stefanik is trying to do here. Hey, if you don't say that you're against, you know, these students' statements, then you're somehow against Israel. And that's not what you get to deduce from that. But I am surprised that the university presidents did not, you know, take a stronger tack on that, because to me, you can do both.

I'll be honest with you. I think what happened was they gave their answers and they didn't want to give them a win. I think that they knew it was absurd. They knew what was stupid. And they did not want to give it to them, not realizing what they did was further inflame this. When you ask the question, are you going to protect Jewish students? They sort of gave this, you know, around the block answer. And again, I get why. But the bottom line is you knew why they were calling you down there. You knew what congressional hearings are like. So you have to sort of anticipate the ridiculous shenanigans they're going to play. And guess what? You gave them exactly what they got.

You gave them exactly what they were looking for, and that is to feed the insatiable appetite of their right-wing audience. And so that's what's going on. Hold tight one second. We come back. Economic numbers. Jobs came out today. Ooh, Lord.

The right-wing like, damn it, another good month. What in the hell with biodomics? We'll discuss it next on Roland Martin Unfiltered on Blackstar Network. Hi, I'm Dr. Jackie Hood Martin, and I have a question for you. Ever feel as if your life is teetering and the weight and pressure of the world

is consistently on your shoulders? Well, let me tell you, living a balanced life isn't easy. Join me each Tuesday on Blackstar Network for Balanced Life with Dr. Jackie. We'll laugh together, cry together, pull ourselves together, and cheer each other on. So join me for new shows each Tuesday on Blackstar Network, a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. On the next Get Wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach, you are going to learn why so many Black women are starting their own businesses. Black women's earnings have declined only 58 cents to the dollar of what white men earn. And that's why we're starting businesses.

Our next guest, Dr. Avis, is going to show you the first step toward reinvention and scaling your business to seven figures and beyond. What I teach my clients to do, which has led to great revenue leaps with them, is to really hone your focus on one primary high ticket offer. That's right here on Get Wealthy, only on Blackstar Network. It's John Murray, the executive producer of the new Sherri Shepherd Talk Show. This is your boy, Irv Quay. And you're tuned into... Roland Martin, Unfiltered. If there's one thing that I love once a month is when the jobs

reports come out and the folks over there at Fox News gotta go shit, another good month. You know they out here cheering for a bad economic report and that crazy MAGA nutcase Maria Bartiromo, ooh, I just love to see when she is sitting here,

her head spinning, and that evil brain of hers is going, damn it, I got to utter these words. And you know it kills her, because she's kissed more Trump butt than Melania. And so check this out. So when the numbers dropped this morning, Lord, you should have seen the look on her face. Watch this. Well, you got to look at this report as a big positive. We've got more jobs created than expected. Joe LeBron, you've been saying this for a long time, saying that the economy is a lot

stronger than anybody understands. Your reaction? It takes a while. Everything Steve said makes complete sense. The numbers are good numbers, no question. The fact that the unemployment rate fell is good. It was because household employment was up over 700,000. But overall, you've got to look at this report.

All right, y'all. Morgan Harper from the American Economic Liberties Project joins us right now. And Morgan, you can hear it in their voice. They're like, it went down again. We adding jobs. I mean, they can't wait to go. See, look at that. Oh, my goodness. We love. They can't wait for there to be an awful jobs report to track Biden Harris. I know. And they had so many people prepared to talk about this negative news. And yet again, we are seeing the strength of good economic policy, unemployment

down, jobs getting added. And it's hard to argue with those numbers. And also that we're seeing that wage growth is continuing, but it is somewhat leveling off and inflation is going down. So that means consumer purchasing power is increasing. So much still to address. But, yeah, there's no denying that even the Fox News hosts and guests can't ignore that these are positive results right now. 199,000 jobs added, overall unemployment dropping, dropping two tenths of a point. Then, of course, the unemployment rate for African-Americans remained the same. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana

pudding. But the price has gone up. So, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms,

the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way.

Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Well, it does seem like some of the job growth is coming from sectors that are back to work. So we had some, and we talked about this, you know, the last time I was on, we had some striking

workers in the auto industry. We have, you know, now in the acting industry that are back to work, it does seem like the most jobs are being added in healthcare and in government. So, you know, people are, and labor force participation is increasing. So I think, you know, people are in labor force participation is increasing. So I think, you know, because of all of that, you're going to see the unemployment numbers drop. But there are some things that, you know, we need to continue to monitor. And like I said, this is all extremely positive news for the overall economy, but we do have multiple experiences that are happening within the economy. So we're not seeing that type of job growth in manufacturing sector. We're seeing that temporary of job growth in manufacturing sector.

We're seeing that temporary workers, especially in this holiday season, which is a little weird, seems to be stagnating. And that can hit some of our, you know, folks that are earning lower incomes and maybe not as affluent. And that's something we need to continue to watch.

Now, to your point earlier, I love all of the folk who talk on Thursday and a report comes in on Friday. It's sort of like when you're watching sports and they talk about what's going to happen with the game. And the team get blown out. It's kind of like, uh, damn, I don't even know what happened there. This was CNBC just yesterday. Tomorrow morning, we get the big November jobs number, and it could show a slowing jobs market, but don't take our word for it. Let's take it to

our next guest, whose company uses AI to predict things like the job market numbers. Remember, we had them on last month, and they successfully predicted the jobs report being better when we spoke to him about it. Let's break back in. Zeta Global CEO David Steinberg. David, yeah, you could smile, take the victory lap, but one does not, one is not a trend. One, like when the Pats cover and hit the over tonight, that doesn't mean they're a good team, but they will. But that aside, David, you guys nailed it last time. What are you seeing this time for tomorrow's jobs number? So it's a very different picture from the last time we were here. We think not only are obviously the public projections are

for it to come in lower. We think it's going to be even lower than they expect. So we think they're going to be not we think unemployment is going to be worse than three point nine percent higher. The street might prefer that at this point. But we think unemployment will be higher than 3.9%. We think the job market is cooling faster than the market even expects it to. And we're seeing far less job creation than we have in prior months. So we're definitely seeing things start to cool pretty quickly. Tomorrow morning, we get the big news. Y'all might want to throw that bullshit AI out, Morgan,

because clearly that algorithm needs a reboot. It does appear so. AI does not have all the answers, and this jobs report is clearly an example of that. Yeah, and so interesting that also they were predicting that somehow job security was going to be an issue. You know, in interviews that were happening after these reports came out with business owners, they're saying, hey, look, this is a good time to hold on to the workers we have.

We've given them raises. It's really tough. You know, it can be really tough to find the right people. So let's stick with our current situation here. So quite the opposite from these predictions that you were showing on CNBC. See, here's why. And also because there was something that he

said in there, and I'm sure you caught it, when he said, oh, we predict it's going to be 3.9 or higher, which the street wants. This is what people watching and listening to understand. Wall Street, they want higher unemployment. They are pissed off that unemployment is so low. They've been saying it because they don't like that workers have options. Absolutely. I mean, we have seen a generational shift in the bargaining power for workers. And yeah, that absolutely

drives dominant corporations that are used to holding all of the chips crazy. I mean, the other interesting thing about all of this is the stock market rallied based on this news. So the key demographic of folks who are watching CNBC, who are usually buying into all these narratives, the only indicator they tend to care about is the performance of the stock market. And that also is very positive. We'll go to my panel next with questions. Here's why I believe, and I was seeing all these different tweets, and they were talking about, we don't understand why the economy is doing so well, but people think differently.

I'm going to tell you why, Morgan, because all we hear is doom and gloom on mainstream news. If gas goes up, every damn assignment editor is sending a crew out to a gas station doing a live shot. Look how high gas is. It's down, what, 60, 70 cents? You never see the live shot going, wow, look how much lower gas is. They don't do that. And so I fundamentally believe.

Remember, we heard for a whole damn year, recession, recession, recession, Amazon cut jobs, they're cutting jobs, Goldman Sachs, recession is coming, recession, here comes recession, you ready for a recession? I mean, it literally was for a whole year, recession, recession, shit, what a recession, recession, recession, damn it, what a recession, a recession, here it comes, recession, damn it, where is this recession? And it never showed up. And so I think that's what has caused this whole thing in consumers mind. Everywhere around them, it's doom and gloom. The economy sucks. Things are awful.

Trump was great. Well, yes and no. And, you know, and we've gone back and forth on this a little bit. I mean, I think you are absolutely right. There is a desire to create hysteria around the economic outlook. I do think certain people want the president to fail and they want his policies to be seen as unsuccessful. Absolutely. But I don't think we can deny the reality that for a lot of people, even in the midst of this strong overall economic performance, life doesn't feel like it's gotten much better. People aren't feeling like they're getting ahead. And that is due to, even though inflation has gone down, prices are still quite high. I mean, we have, to your earlier point, we have big

corporations that are trying to get away with breaking the law. We now are learning through some investigations that the government's doing price fixing to coordinate on raising rental prices through the algorithms that you're using. That was a lawsuit that showed price fixing among eggs. Yes, yes. And so the government, you know, the president can't solve or prevent corporations from breaking the law. But once they break the law, we enforce it and stop that behavior. But if there are big corporations out here that are just determined to try to suck as much money out of us as consumers, out of small business owners as they can, well, we need to be

honest about that, that price gouging. And yeah, we have to have strong enforcement law to stop that because that isn't going to necessarily get just having inflation decrease, solve all that problem, make people like they have more money. And I do think that's going to continue to be a big focus for the administration is, all right, we're doing what we can to put money in people's pockets, but we need to now make sure that prices are coming down, that costs are coming down, and the corporations that stand in the way of that need to be held accountable. And to that particular point, to the iPad, this right here on CNBC, excess profits at big energy and consumer companies pushed up inflation, according to a report.

Go to the panel. Matt, go. So, Morgan, first, good evening. Good to see you again. Here's my question for you. What, if any, advice do you take from this for the average black family in terms of the next few months of financial planning? I mean, obviously, this is a jobs number, but what do we take from this on the ground for how our families plan going forward? Because I presume some of these numbers are high because we're coming into the retail season. Retailers are going to need more people on the ground, right? But going forward in terms of prices, I think people are still feeling some of that

anxiety you talked about. So how do we extrapolate from that advice for the families going forward? That's a great question. And, you know, I do think that we still are facing a fairly uncertain future. So Roland's absolutely right. You know, there is this desire to make it seem like recessions around this corner, recessions around the corner. Part of what's driving that is people aren't very good right now at predicting the future. And so I do think we need to be cognizant of that, right? Even with AI, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I saw something, I don't know if y'all saw this too, where it was like, think about only spending $100 per gift or for the whole holiday season. I was like, wow, I mean, $100, you know, this day and age is not that much, but it is an interesting challenge for us to, you know, be cognizant that there's this uncertainty ahead. What are ways in which we can control our expenses, maybe save a little bit more would be part of my advice, though I'm not a financial advisor, because it could be turbulent storms ahead. And by the way, there's like a big question mark around what the next administration is going to look like. There are people that are trying to say they're going to bring down the whole government. So, you know, a little caution. We've had our time post-COVID. We got the vacation in, if you could. We lived it up. We went to the concert.

We saw Renaissance. Maybe this is a good period to try to just like store away a little bit of cushion if we can. Well, you know, the American economy hates when people save because they're not spending. Go, Monique. Oh, absolutely. I am so glad you said we got renaissance in. So we did have something. Yes, we did. So here's my question. Who are these people who are getting these jobs? And the reason why I ask is because, as Roland was saying, you know, there's so much doom and gloom. But it also seems to me, from the way I'm looking at people's conversations, the people who are getting the 35-buck cap on the hearing aid, getting their loans forgiven, getting blue-collar jobs, and having the less money spent on gas are then turning around and voting red and voting for Trump because it doesn't really have

anything to do with the economy. That's just what they use to justify what they intend to do anyway. Am I right? Am I wrong? Who's getting these jobs? Well, I do think it's probably, you know, just based on these numbers alone, a range of different types of people that are getting these jobs. But I do think you've identified a key need is, you know, and this is something I know we talk a lot about, but it's like, we got to, we have to make sure people understand, you know, what exactly the policies are that are leading to these better job outcomes. But also I think we need to be realistic about how much people are going to pay attention. So, you know, this is kind of taking off my American Economic Liberties hat, which is a nonprofit organization, nonpartisan into more Morgan Harper as an individual who's

been involved in politics. And that is about finding your people. You're not going to convince everyone who is dead set on believing that this president is just not working in their best interest. We need to find people that are open minded and that are likely to support this type of good economic policy that we see is having positive impacts on our communities. So, you know, it's a tricky thing. We talk about the messaging, we talk about the communications, but I think you're absolutely right that there's a certain set of person, even if they're benefiting from these policies, that does not want to give credit where it's due. Michael, go. All right, Morgan, I know a few minutes ago we talked about the African-American male unemployment rate rose 1 percent. And overall, these are good numbers

overall at 3.7 percent. Can you talk about some of the contributing factors that contributed to that increase in African-American male unemployment? I know the labor force participation rate is at its highest point in like two years, 62.8%. But can you talk about some of those contributing factors, please? Well, and that's where, you know, thinking, or we have to go a level deeper into like, well, what jobs are being created and which jobs are most likely that we're going to see Black men that are participating in? And so, you know, yeah, like the overall numbers are good, but if we're not seeing that same pickup and growth in manufacturing, if for some reason we're, you know, it's also seems like we're not seeing that type of temp employment, if that's also more likely to be where a lot of black men

could be seeing uptick in hiring, well, then that might be contributing to these higher unemployment numbers for that category. But I mean, this is where I think it's really incumbent upon all of us to be in touch with our representatives that can kind of like get a little deeper beyond the federal level or, you know, our congressional representatives that have that community connection to really make sure they're hearing our stories. Because is it just that the sectors that, you know, Black men are tending to go into are not hiring at that same rate? Is it that we're facing some kind of discrimination in the hiring process that needs to be corrected? Is it a skill level mismatch that we need to make sure that those resources are getting to people to be prepared for construction jobs? Because

the jobs are being created. You know, for example, just today, the president was announcing, you know, a big rail project in Ohio where I am. You know, they're saying we're going to be exploring what it would look like to have Amtrak connecting some of these cities. So those jobs are out there. But if we don't have people with the skill and education level that's going to make them competitive to get those jobs, then that's something that, you know, isn't going to be talked about in these job report numbers. But absolutely, folks who are more focused at the local, at the state, at the regional level, they need to know so that we have programs that are filling that gap. All right. Morgan, we appreciate it. Thanks very much for joining us every month to break it down. Thanks a lot. Great to see you. Thanks.

All right, then, Michael, Monique, and Matt, we appreciate y'all being on today's show. Thank you so very much. Folks, go into a break. We come back. Jack Ugar and I talk about his thesis. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters and how it shows up

in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. the Black Star Network. Hatred on the streets, a horrific scene, a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence. You will not. White people are losing their damn lives. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storm to the U.S. Capitol.

We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the wrath of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. Here's all the Proud Boys guys.

This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. Hi, I am Tommy Davidson. I play Oscar on Proud Family, Louder and Prouder. I don't play Sammy, but I could. Or I don't play Obama, but I could. I don't do Stallone, but I could do all that.

And I am here with Roland Martin on Unfiltered. All right, Jane, let's jump into it. I've long maintained that when we talk about big tents, the Democratic Party actually has a much larger tent than the Republicans. Republicans, you're either right, far right, or fascist. But then when you talk about Democrats, you have conservative Democrats, you've got moderate Democrats, you've got progressive, you've got far left.

And Democrats have always had a difficulty in bringing this coalition together because it's so varied interest. Yet you, your thesis is that progressives are going to take over the country. How? Yeah, so mainly by younger voters, honestly, and it's not that difficult. The only thing we've got to make sure doesn't happen is that Trump doesn't win in 2024 because that could just end democracy. But as long as we have democracy in 2016 and 2020, Bernie Sanders was winning progressive winning younger voters in massive margins. And I explain that in the book by 40 points, 50 points. And so younger voters, though, kept getting older and older because that's normal. That's what happens. So by 2020, he was winning under 45-year-olds. And now, when you look at the polling,

under 50-year-olds are now massively progressive. We just need one candidate to spark a fire, and we're going to easily take over this country. Because, Roland, progressive ideas are intensely popular. Almost all of our policies are favored by two-thirds of all Americans, let alone the huge margins we have with young voters. But isn't that part of the problem, this notion of a candidate striking the nerve? I look at Texas. I'm born and raised in Texas. I'm still a registered voter there. We had Beto O'Rourke, who was running for governor. Seventy-five percent of voters under the age of 30 didn't even vote. This guy went to every county. He was out there.

He was going to college campuses. He was talking about the issues. We're seeing what they're doing in Texas when it comes to abortion, when it comes to voting rights, when it comes to education, whatever. Young voters didn't show up. So I get your argument about the numbers with Gen X and millennials, but they've got to show up. Yeah, but, Roland, two things about that. Number one, you don't have to worry about under 30-year-old voters anymore because, like I said, younger voters aren't that young anymore.

That generation has grown up, and they have remained as progressive as they started. So now we're talking about millennials and Gen Z, and so we're talking about two generations. So under 50, under 50. The minute we reach about 55, which is the next election, that's the majority of the voters in the Democratic primaries. We win the Democratic primary, and we win the general election easily. But, dang, 55 55 plus votes, though. I mean, when I look at the African-American, 65 and older, they're like, man, you need to call me. I'm going 55, 55, 64. They're voting. The problem is when you drop, drop 54 and below, that numbers keeps going, going, going, going down. The reality is it's not always going to be a candidate that excites me. Shouldn't issues be exciting people?

So, Roland, there's so many things to say about that. Number one, you're right. The issues are the things that matter the most. But the problem is that our system depends on media coverage. So I'll give you a perfect example. Paid family leave is at 84%. It's not like you have to convince any more people in a democracy that should pass easily. That's moms getting 12 weeks off after they have a baby. Literally every other developed nation does that. We're the only ones that don't. And almost every nation on earth does it. Estonia gives moms 82 weeks off.

But Americans say we get zero days off. It's unbelievable. It's unconscionable, right? So we've already won on that issue as we've won on almost every issue. But the problem is the media will then take that. And when Joe Manchin kills it and Joe Biden ignores it, they'll say, oh, they're the moderates. Well, that's not the moderate position. That's a 16% radical extremist position.

So why do you need a candidate to galvanize these folks? Well, that's because the candidate is what draws the media attention. And the problems with, like, Democrats and why I entered the presidential race is because everybody whispers. Everybody whispers. Stop whispering. Donald Trump screams from the rooft rooftops and whether we hate it or not it works meanwhile joe biden and then doesn't propose paid family leave as a standalone

bill doesn't propose any of these bills that are 70 and higher never fights republicans we need someone who's a fire breather who's gonna fight for democratic voters in the american people the minute you have that and that person gets media attention is the minute we win everything easily. But how? OK, so then explain to me then how does the Beto O'Rourke lose to Ted Cruz by two point five points? Comes back, same Beto, same fire breather, same passion, same hard campaigner, same big fundraiser, loses the Greek and by 11 points. Yeah, no, no. So first of all, Beto, not a fire breather.

So look, well, come on. I mean, my good. I mean, my goodness. How much is not like Beto was a passive dude compared to other Democratic candidates. Yeah, I know. But, Roland, we're talking about a different level here. So let me explain what I mean. So when you say paid family, for example, that sounds boring.

And then people are like, hey, what is that? And if you go, hey, I'm in favor of it, you're not going to get the 84% animated. You might get them to go, oh, yeah, that makes sense, and I like that. But then that's if I like that. But then that's if they hear. But most likely they will not hear. Here's how you say to get people's attention. Why do Republicans hate moms? They claim to be pro-life, but they hate babies and moms. Now, everybody in the press, if you're if you're as large as Beto O'Rourke was, would cover that story. And they said, oh, that's an outrage. How can you say the Republicans hate moms? Well,

they won't even give them 12 weeks off. They won't give them a day off after they deliver a baby. It is true that they hate moms on behalf of corporations who are all paying them through campaign donations. But Democrats never say that. They never even go to the number one issue that they could use against Republicans, corruption. And the reason they don't go to that is because they also take corporate cash. So if you have a clean, progressive candidate, and this is the giant if, though, Roland, which is that the press pays attention to and is willing to hear out, and then the country will hear these. But you can't just whisper it. And Beto is not enough of a fire breather. He hired the same campaign manager as Joe Biden. When his campaign was over, she went to Joe Biden.

These are super moderate consultants that advise all of their Democratic candidates. Don't be impolite. Are you nuts? Donald Trump already won the election. He's almost certainly going to win this next one. And he's the most impolite guy in America. Wake up, Democrats. So the candidates you're describing, who are they?

Like, for instance, right now, name me three candidates that have won statewide that fit your description of being this fire breather. If a Beto wasn't in that category, who? So there's only one that comes close, and that is because several generations of Democrats have been taught and trained to be obedient, to be civil, do not cause any good trouble, do not cause any trouble at all, lay down and they'll let the Republicans run over you. On a state level, to give you the very specific question that you asked, the answer is John Fetterman. And he beat the hell out of Dr. Oz when he couldn't even speak, when he had a stroke and everybody saw he couldn'tetterman. And he beat the hell out of Dr. Oswald. He couldn't even speak when he had a stroke and everybody saw he couldn't speak. Why did he beat the hell out of us? Because he was impolite because he made fun of the brother 24 seven. He crushed him. He was merciless. And if he hadn't had that stroke, he'd probably be the next president. Here's a candidate at the presidential level. Me, me. Okay. So now is it, I got an incredibly

hard road. Everybody knows that I'm not an actual born citizen. I'm born Muslim. I got, I'm a talk show host, not a politician. And so I got a thousand obstacles to get over, but you know what? I'm all over the press and I'm screaming from the rooftops, things that everyone agrees with. And whatever show I go on, Roland, it's not just left-wing. Even when I go on right-wing shows, they're like, yeah, well, higher wages would be good. Lower drug prices would be good. Wouldn't it be amazing if there was actually a fighter against corruption on behalf of all these issues? You take my attitude, you put it on someone that the press considers, quote unquote, credible, and that person wins easily, easily.

Go fight. Go fight. Republicans fight like crazy. That's why everybody's going to show up for Donald Trump and nobody's going to show up for Joe Biden because that guy doesn't fight for anybody. OK, so you say you use so you said one example statewide is a Fetterman. You say one example statewide is a Fetterman who right now is getting blasted for his position regarding Israel. But you also talk about someone like yourself. When you ran for Congress, you only got 5% of the vote. You came in first. So if you could not make that work in a congressional race, getting five percent of the vote coming in fourth, how do you think that works nationally? Yeah. So first of all, so you're not wrong to bring that up. I totally get it. I got 6.6 percent, and that number sucks.

Okay. And so you say, okay, why come this didn't work? OK, so at a local—and then how dare you on a presidential level? Let me explain both sides of it. So number one, at the local level, it's harder than the presidential race. And I know because I just did both. I'm in the middle of doing one. I did the other one. And so why is Congress harder? Because mainstream media comes and smears the living hell out of you. For me, they call me anti-Muslim when I'm Muslim. I mean, they just lied about every single thing about my past. And if I saw the articles in the LA Times and New York Times, and I never knew anything else about me, I would have voted against me. I wouldn't have voted for an anti-Muslim, racist, sexist, et cetera guy. But that's not at all who

I am. So they just smear you. And then they never give the mic back, Roland. Like, there was no press, no interviews, no nothing. I asked the LA Times, are you guys ever going to write an article about the policy issues in this race? And they literally said, no, we're only going to do the fake scandals against you. They didn't say fake, obviously. And that's it. That's it. All we're going to do is smear you. Now at the presidential level, it's actually a little bit easier to get the mic. And so when you come in at 6.6% on a congressional race, you're going to come in at 0% on the presidential level, so when you come in at 6.6% on a congressional race, you're going to come in at 0% on the presidential level, right? I mean, at the presidential level, we got Governor of Arkansas and Governor of North Dakota coming in at 0% and 1%. We got Chris Christie at 2%.

So there's no chance that I'm going to get a number at the presidential level, right? Wrong. Quinnipiac poll, 2%. I'm higher than three governors. Why? Because first of all, Young Turks is a nationwide, worldwide show. So whatever I get in the congressional district, I can get at the national level. But second of all, Roland, it's because I'm actually now in a lot of the media. I've been doing a lot of black radio. I've been doing a lot of online shows. I've been doing every kind of show there is. The Breakfast Club yesterday. Here I am with you, Roland, today. And once people hear

this message, they're like, oh, someone who's not just going to sit there, someone who we don't have to beg to do this. As soon as Joe Biden wins or any Democrat wins, what does everybody do? We all have to beg them to do the things that they promised. We have to push them. Why? We already elected you. Why don't you just do it already? Imagine having a Democrat who's going to get in there and he can't wait to pass bills because who wins is irrelevant. Who cares if it's Jake Uygur or Joe Biden or Marianne Williamson? That's just status and title. The only thing that matters is passing bills because when you pass bills, you change lives, higher minimum wage, lower drug prices. But we haven't had a Democrat fight like that in 40, 50 years.

So the only issue is getting enough media rolling. Okay, but all right, I get that point. But the reality is you can get a lot of media, but it's not like that still means you get votes. Howard Dean got lots of media. You have, hell, Vivek on Republican Howard Dean got lots of media. You have Vivek on the Republican side getting lots of media.

Granted, voting hasn't started yet, but if you look at polling, it's not like he's killing it. But again, it comes down to media attention is one thing. As you said, Senator Sanders got lots of media. I bring up Bet As you said, Senator Sanders got lots of media.

I bring up Beto again. Senator Elizabeth Warren got lots of media when she ran 2020. I think her biggest mistake, she should have actually run in 2016. I think that was the biggest mistake. But the bottom line, so I get that. But being a fire breather does not necessarily mean people are going to vote for you. And when you can only name one person statewide in the country, you need 270. You got I mean, you got to win state states to win. Right. And the states that you got to win, you got you're going to be in places that are not necessarily, you know, fully progressive.

I mean, I mean, that mean, that's just a fact. Yeah, so, Roland, let me address a lot of things you say. First of all, you're totally right that Elizabeth Warren should have run in 2016, and she would have won. But that goes actually to the main point, which is you say, hey, only one fire breather is one at the state level, the guy I mentioned, Federer, right? But, Roland, how many fire breathers have there been? Almost none, because all the Democrats are told to obey. I mean, we got Joe Biden, who's definitely,

definitely going to lose this election. He's sitting at 37% approval, 59% disapproval. And what do all the Democrats do? They obey. They say, well, OK, I don't mind losing Donald Trump. I don't mind losing democracy as long as we obey the dear leader. And we never raise our voice, and we never create trouble. We never do anything that's impolite. There's no fire breathers in the Democratic Party. It's me, and it used to be Fetterman, and now he's been neutered in the Senate as well. In terms of the guys that you mentioned, these are good examples. Vivek Ramaswamy, he did get a lot of media attention, but he's not rising the pulse. Why? Because his ideas are

super unpopular, whereas our ideas are incredibly popular. So when you look at, for example, lowering drug prices, that's at 90 percent. Ending gerrymandering, 90 percent. Federal background checks, 97 percent. 84 percent. You've got to have the fire breather plus media plus really popular policies. And that is all progressives. And in terms of Bernie, the number one reason he lost in 2016 and 2020, Roland, is because he chose not to fight back. He barely laid a glove on Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. We told him, will you for God's sake attack?

And he wouldn't do it. He's just too nice. If you never make the case against the other guy you're not gonna win jankforamerica.com but here's the deal though but but but you say justice is coming how progressives are going to take over the country and america is going to love it there's got to be some proof of that and again it has to be more than one person okay so fine let's go outside of statewide okay who are the folks who are on the local level that's going to go to the next level? Because again, when you talk about a presidential race, okay, those are frankly state-by-state campaigns about Nevada, Georgia, North Carolina, we're talking Minnesota, we're talking Texas, Florida, we're talking, you know, these different places.

All right. So, so that's really, that's really what they are, but you also have got to have a bench. And so I still, I need, where is it? Where's the bench? And if you're going to say take over the country, you got to take over more than one more than one seat. And so where where are the multiple candidates? And then the second and next piece is, OK, if it's coming, where are they being trained? Where are they being raised up? Yeah. So let me address that, too. So I remember when we started just Democrats, people thought it was impossible. And they said, you're not going to win anywhere. If you win, you get lucky one place. That's it. Right. And I asked every reporter I could find. Every one of them said you'll either get zero or one candidate. Well, what happened next? You want to talk about fire breathers?

Well, AOC beat Joe Crowley, the fourth most powerful Democrat in the House. In fact, if she hadn't beat him, he had a Kim Jeffries role. He would probably be Speaker of the House right now. And that was a historic upset when nobody thought it was possible. Why? Because she aggressively told the story of progressive priorities, and people loved it. Who else did we run? We ran Jamal Bowman. He beat Elliot Engel, who was the head of the Foreign Relations Committee, a committee chairman, also thought impossible. But it wasn't impossible. You just had to try. Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, we now, Summer Lee, Greg Kassar, we now have 11 Justice Democrats in Congress when everybody thought it

was impossible. No, all you got to do is fire breather plus popular policies. That's 11. But here's the question. The folks that you named, can they win statewide races? And if they can, show me. Because you mentioned Fetterman. But here's the deal. When I looked at Fetterman, it wasn't just, oh, he was sort of, he was just speaking the truth. He didn't care what he wore. Fetterman also was appealing to those white conservative Democrats in other areas of Pennsylvania. And then he was also appealing

to folks in inner cities. But again, that's one. Show me where you translate the 11 you spoke of to a higher office that goes beyond a congressional district of 700,000. You've had progressive mayors who, when they ran statewide, couldn't do it. And so, again, that's just what I'm looking at. I'm looking at right now the attacks on progressive district attorneys. I'm looking at the attacks on progressive mayors. But I'm also saying, and I get that local level, but we're talking about presidential or U.S. Senate or governor. We're not talking about statewide offices. Yeah. So here's two things about that. Number one, whenever there is a fire breather, what does the press do? They just go set out a seek and destroy mission. Right. Oh, not civil. In fact, when I ran for Congress, the L.A. Times did an op ed.

And and I had a great, great meeting with their editorial board. And you could tell because in the op ed they said in their endorsement, we while we agree with Jenkin on money and politics and almost all the other issues, we think he's too uncivil. He's too pugnacious. But how many young voters read the L.A. Times editorial? No, no, no, no. I know. The problem is, yes, there's tons of older voters. And older voters watch MSNBC. Older voters read The New York Times, listen to NPR. And they are told, comply, comply, comply. You must pick a super weak Democrat who's definitely not going to deliver for you.

A corporate guy who takes tons of campaign contributions and is super corrupt. And they believe that nonsense. You've got to stop believing that nonsense. Turn off mainstream media and actually get a fighter who's going to fight for you. Jake for America.com. But here's the problem, Jake. If you have more Gen Z and millennial voters today than you do baby boomers in Gen X, it ain't happening.

But it is by 2028, Roland. We're going to have the majority. You're almost giving up before we're about to get to victory. No, no, no, you're almost giving up before we're about to get to victory. We're about to get to victory. Do not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm not giving up. Here's what I'm doing. I'm looking at, I'm doing the math. I'm looking at again, I'm looking at, uh, I'm looking at a Beto. I'm looking at what happened in Louisiana. I'm looking at places where, yes, you are seeing young voters show up. They showed up in 2020 and 2022. What happened in Virginia? Some of the places. that I have, is that a lot of young voters have completely and totally checked out. They make the argument, I'm tired of these older people running everything. And I'm like, guess what?

If the older voters are the ones voting, you're not older people going to be running things. It becomes sort of a catch-22. And so what you're laying out, when are the people who you're talking about, when you say progressives are going to take over the country, when are they going to show up in mass and do it? You can't wait for 2028 when you've got super majorities of Republicans in states now in Louisiana, in Texas, Florida, Mississippi, Tennessee, and different places like that. You can't wait when you're talking about gubernatorial races, when you're talking about U.S. Senate races. And so I get this notion of a fire breather.

A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters,

and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser

Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette.

MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. There has to be results and not just talk. And that's what I'm not seeing. But, Roland, first of all, you just said it. The evidence was in 2020 and 2022.

There's no way in the world Joe Biden wins unless the younger voters showed up in large numbers, and they did. But did those younger voters, though, I keep hearing, Joe ain't the guy, he too old. Okay, where in the hell were they in the primary then? In what primary, Joe ain't the guy. He too old. Okay. Where in the hell were they in the primary then? In what primary, Joe?

There were other choices than Biden in the primary, correct? You mean in 2020? Yes. Yeah, I know. That's why Bernie won the first three states. Then all of mainstream media and all of the establishment Democrats said no, Bernie's going to kill people in Central Park. He's a communist. Chris Matthews said that on MSN all of mainstream media and all of the establishment democrats said no bernie's

gonna kill people in central park he's a communist chris matthews said that on msnbc these lunatics the chuck todd started calling him his supporters brown shirts and nazis even though bernie's jewish and they all piled on together and they barely beat him they barely beat him twice and and that and bernie wouldn't fight back so you find someone like bernie who's willing to fight back and by the time and the demographics are on his side by 2028 we're gonna kill him in the primaries hold on so you're saying again again so you're saying that you say bernie didn't fight back he would this he would disagree uh disagree with that. And look, we're truly- No, he wouldn't. I don't even think Bernie would disagree with that. He knows that his staff gave

him notes to attack Biden in a debate in October, and he refused to do them. He loves Biden too much. Oh, my friend, my friend, my friend, your friend has sunk the country and is handing it over to Donald Trump. And Lily, you tell me what the alternative is. This Joe Biden guy is definitely, definitely going to lose. And we're going to have Trump as president because everyone obeyed the mad king, this egomaniac Joe Biden. Seventy-seven percent of the country doesn't even think he can survive a second term. He's 81 years old, can't finish his sentence.

And we're just going to agree to lose by running this candidate? I've never seen anyone so selfish in my life. So give me anybody but Joe Biden. Here's the deal. But again, though, the book is not about Joe Biden. The book is about how progress is going to take over the country. And what I am trying to understand is how and where. If I would, what you're laying out again that's why i specifically asked how many people that fits your description to do this you mentioned one person jay that ain't no i mentioned 12 ain't a movement that's one person just. And so what I'm saying is, if what you're describing is the pathway to victory, that would be more than one. OK, let me give you an example, Roland, from the other side. And I hate to do this, but it's but it's real.

I mean, from the. Let me explain. Let me explain. So Donald Trump back in 2015, when he announced, did you know that he started at 1%? Yes. He started at 1%. And at that point, if you were talking to him, you would have said, give me one example of a mad populist fire breather who can galvanize the country against corruption, et cetera. He couldn't have given you any examples. I don't think it was just that. I don't think it was just that. I'm telling you right now. I think first and foremost, if you look at Trump, first of all, let's thank Jeff Zucker and NBC and The Apprentice. So America has this nonsensical idea that rich people or supposed rich people can do anything if they're the smartest people in the world. I think Elon Musk

is proving that right now when it comes to Twitter that he is not a genius. And so folks love to fall for that. And what you had here was you had someone in Donald Trump where there are no guard rails, there's no bottom, there's no sense of decorum. The moment Donald Trump attacked Senator John McCain as a POW and the Republicans did not make him pay for it, I was like, there you go right there. And so what Donald Trump did was he understood and he pushed the racist, sexist, misogynist buttons of the Republicans and the primary folks, and they were always there. They simply were buttoned up, if you will, because there was proper decorum. And so when that was unleashed, the bottom line is the people he was running against,

they were playing by old rules. The guy had no bottom. And so that's donald trump now if you show me who else has replicated that model you can't one of them is why the democratic side ever does roll in no no it's not no but it's not even just on the democratic side it's even on the republican side even on the republican side yeah so they thought they thought oh with the second impeachment, oh, again, McConnell, I'm not going to vote for it because he's just going to go away. And they realized he's not going to go away because he is appealing to the white nationalist instincts of Republican voters.

That's why I wrote my book, White Fear, How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds. And so I get that. But again, what I'm trying to understand is the type of candidate that you are describing on the left that we're going to see, and not just candidate, but multiple candidates. I'm saying I don't see the evidence that you have what you describe those individuals running. They're not winning statewide and national races because winning. They don't even exist, Roland. They don't even exist. If they don't exist. Let me explain. Let me explain. So, Roland, you know who can do it? I can do it. I can do it. All I got to do is win.

Hold on. Hold on. All I got to do is win the Supreme Court case on being a National Board citizen, being a non-test part of the Constitution that was amended out. The minute I win that case, I light this country on fire. Because, look, Donald Trump, yes, half his base loves the racism and sexism. Of course. That's the only thing Hillary Clinton said that was actually true, the line about the deplorables.

But the other half of Trump voters wanted to drain the swamp. And they got hoodwinked. They got conned by a legendary con man, right? He loves corruption. He doesn't hate corruption. But they thought he hates corruption. He gave a middle finger to the establishment. And that populist base that

exists out there that is totally unaddressed, I love it. And you've got to get a progressive that addresses that populist base and says, hey, let's actually fight corruption. Let's actually do things that are popular, like higher wages and lower drug prices. And that person, number one, the minute I win the court case, that person is me. I'll do it. I'll pay you a new case for the next race. But you sound like a guy who says, I can be an NBA all-star player, but you can't even start in the G League. How do you go from getting 6% in the congressional race to actually saying, oh, I can win the presidency? How?

Yeah. Roland, Young Turks has 5 billion views a year. I've been told every step of the way that I'm not the guy. I'm an outsider. I'm an immigrant. I'm a Muslim. I'm this. I'm that.

It's not you, Cenk. It's not you. How dare you try to come up with a media network? Well, now we have 27 million subscribers, 5 billion views a year. What happened? If I told people when I started Young Turks, no, Dan Rather's not going to hire me. I'm going to hire Dan Rather. They would have thought I was nuts, but I did it.

Cenk, I get the media piece. I started my own. Now I have my own network. We built it from 157,000 YouTube subs to 1.16, and we're still growing. I get all of that. I'm talking politics. And what I'm saying is it's a stretch. It's a long stretch. Some would say it's one where you need to be committed to actually say,

if I got 6% in the congressional race, not I got 38% or 45%, and I came in second. I got 6% came in fourth. I can win the presidency. But again, but I'm going beyond you. Hold on one second. I'm going beyond you. What I'm talking about is a broader movement. And I understand those justice Democrats. But I also look at how right now there are people who are critical of those same Justice Democrats who are saying AOC, oh, she sold out. She got there and she changed on and on. And what I'm saying is the model that you described, if you can't replicate that in more than one race, it doesn't work. I'm just simply saying, show me the pathway. Jake, I'm taking you, President, out.

What I'm saying is, show me the pathway. Okay, but let me give you another example. So I gave the example of Donald Trump starting at 1% and then winning the presidency. That wasn't good enough. I gave you the example of 11 just Democrats all told impossible. They all win. Not good enough. Fetterman does.

He's the only one that tries. I don't say not good enough. And he was spectacularly not good enough. Hold on. Let me give you one more example. Let me give you one more example. OK. OK.

A young kid named Barack Obama runs against Congressman Rush, Bobby Rush. Yeah. And he gets humiliated. He gets defeated thoroughly. And if at that point you were interviewing him, Roland, and you had this mindset, admit that you would tell Barack Obama, how dare you? How dare you? You have no way of being able to do this.

You have no pathway. You have no data to back you up. All you've done is lose an election. But he did it, didn't he, Roland? No, no, no, no. Hold on, you up. All you've done is lose an election. But he did it, didn't he, Roland? No, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold up. How did he do it? Look, how he, well, first of all, he tried. Number one thing is get caught trying, jankforamerica.com, okay? No, no, no, no, no, no. Jake, that's not what happened. He didn't just try. After he lost to Congressman Bobby Rush, then when he made the decision to run for United States Senate, he made a calculated decision. And that is he took a meeting with Illinois Senate President Emil Jones.

And in Illinois, there were three major Democratic figures in Illinois politics. There was Daley, the mayor of Chicago. There was Rob Ligovic, the governor of Illinois. And there was Mike Madigan, who was Speaker of the House. Emile Jones was totally ignored. He was deemed to be irrelevant. So what did Obama do? Obama played on his ego. He went to Emile Jones and he said, how would you like to make a United States Senator? That's what he did. State Senator Barack Obama was not a major player in the Illinois Senate. He wasn't. He went to Emil Jones and Emil Jones said, hmm, interesting idea. It was Emil Jones, the Senate president, who was the one who said, all right you i'm stripping all of your names off of these bills and his name is going uh on uh those bills one of those bills that were racial profiling the

state senator who had been uh who had been uh champion that for a long time ricky his name escaped last day of skips right now went off he was pissed and emil jones literally was like shut the up i'm gonna make a States senator. And that's what happened. So when Obama ran, Obama was able to talk about all of these bills that he passed. He didn't actually pass the bills. It was they sent Emil Jones. And then when and then when he ran again, very smart campaign. But he also greatly benefited from complete implosion on the Republican side. I'm not saying that they would have won. What I'm saying is that was the pathway.

And now what I'm also saying is the person who you're describing, this hardcore, what you're describing, progressive, that wasn't Obama. Obama's persona and how he ran, it appealed to progressives. It appealed to moderates. It appealed to centrists. It appealed to Republicans as well. And then, wait a minute, then he goes to United States Senate. Same thing.

And so the type of person you're describing, that ain't Obama. And, in fact, progressives were highly critical of Obama because they said he was too moderate. Yeah. Now, Roland, about that, you're totally right. I use Obama not as the progressive model. He went in a completely different track. He went in the establishment track. And he said, OK, I'm going to do whatever these politicians say and whatever the donors say. And that worked for him. But the reason I use him as an example

is after he got, you know, after he lost very, very badly to Bobby Rush at the congressional level, everybody thought he was nuts Bobby Rush at the congressional level, everybody thought he was nuts for running at the Senate level. How dare you run for the Senate when you got clowned running for Congress? And then he was only two years as a senator when he decided to take on the giant Hillary Clinton. And everybody thought he was crazy, that he had no data to back him up, no pathway, no other person that had done it, right? But that was a different time where going the establishment route would have worked. Now going the establishment route, basically for voters under 50, means you're a sellout and you're just doing whatever the donors say.

And it's not going to work in the same way. But if you have an Obama-like figure who's a progressive at this moment and is willing to take those chances and by the way take the ridicule and take the all the mud and all the things that people sling at them at this point they can make the exact same kind of run but on the progressive track rather than the establishment track but i'm not just talking about presidential what you're what you're describing so this is very simple. Is this book, Justice is Coming, how progressives are going to take over the country and America's going to love it? Is this really about, ready for president? Or is this a blueprint? Or is this a blueprint?

Or is this, if you will, a call to arms for what is going to happen in terms of progressive. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone,

sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad.

Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Sir, we are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You're describing winning nationally, winning gubernatorial races, winning state races, winning U.S. Senate races, winning additional congressional races. And what I am saying is I get the Justice Democrats.

I get those. What I'm saying is you got to graduate from congressional, from mayoral wins, congressional wins, DA wins, to higher office. And so who are the people? So let's say you mentioned Fetterman. Okay, who are the folks that we should be looking out for? Give me names of individuals who do you believe are going to be going to the next level to win these larger offices using the model that you laid out? Who are they? Yeah. So first of all, let me address the thing that you said earlier, Roland.

No, this book has nothing to do with this campaign. I started writing this book four years ago. It took way too long. It got released months ago. I never looked. We this interview got booked a long time ago about the book. And, you know, we had delays, et cetera. Now, I don't I never even mentioned the URL where you could buy the book. I never even talk about it now that I've transitioned to the presidential campaign. And I never even thought for a second that I would run. The only reason I'm running, Roland, is because no one else had the courage to run, which goes partly to your point. Look, I asked every progressive to run. They wouldn't do it.

Then I publicly asked for the Democratic governors to run against Joe Biden. Then I asked Jon Stewart to run against Joe Biden. I asked everybody and their mother to run against Joe Biden because he's definitely going to lose. He's 15 points lower than when he barely beat Trump last time in the Electoral College. But no one has that kind of courage, apparently. So then I was—it's crazy for me to run. You think I don't know it's crazy? Of course I know, okay?

The reason I'm doing it is because I've got to shake people out of their complacency and I have to show them, Hey, look, if I can rise from 2% to 4% to 8% to whatever I can rise to, imagine what you could do. If you don't have the issues that I have of not being a natural born citizen, et cetera, right? Imagine what anybody could do if they actually ran this way. So in a sense, I'm trying to be a role model and try to gather up the courage of these folks. Hey, try, stop listening to Democratic consultants. All they ever do is tell you to take the cash because they're going to take 15% of it. All they ever do is comply just fight give me one fighter and i'll show you exactly what barack obama did and unfortunately what donald trump did okay and i'm gonna ask i'm gonna first of all i i i've been highly critical of the consultants absolutely when it comes to

uh them snatching the money things along those lines but. But I'm going to ask again, OK, the folks that you're describing, who are they? Who are the up and comers? If you're sitting, if somebody's watching and listening to this and somebody who covers politics, who are the people? Who are the names we should be looking out for who are ready to go next level and fit the category or the description that you laid out? Who are they? Where are they? Look, I think that the 11 Justice Democrats had a real shot at it. But you mentioned something earlier that we didn't get to explore too much. And I want to mention it here. Those folks are creating an issue for themselves,

which is that they're not understanding the problem of crime. And so when I say progressive, I mean all the issues that we all agree on as Democrats, all the ones that Joe Biden pretended he was going to do. Right. But nobody's in favor of higher crime. And so right now, unfortunately, and there and this culture wars are killing us and they're meant to divide us. They're meant to distract us. If you had a progressive that was an economic populist but was reasonable, moderate, whatever word you want to use on crime and social issues, that person would win easily. But unfortunately, a lot of the just Democrats have not gone in that direction.

They've gone full cultural wars. And when we talked about criminal justice reform, we talked about letting poor people out of jail who just got busted on marijuana possession. That was an incredible injustice. And you know this better than anybody. White people, black people smoke marijuana at the same rate. Black people get arrested at four times the rate. That's the injustice we were trying to fix. But now that, you know, you've got folks that they're letting out of prison that committed serious crimes like domestic assault and et cetera. And we can't do that. And it's leading to losses. So if any one of those guys regain their senses on those issues, then they would be in prime position.

And any Jamal Bowman could do it. All right. But you bring that up, though. But again, when you talk about polling data, though, we see where a lot of these younger voters are that actually agree with them. That's one. Two, you mentioned before you talked about media and how it works. A significant amount of that has been grossly overblown. Look, that was a re-election effort of the DA in San Francisco. And everything was like, oh, my God, how Crown was exploding under the watch.

But it wasn't. Right now, you've got an effort to recall a black progressive DA in Oakland as saying, oh, her policies are creating this when actually they haven't. And so a lot of this is, again, look, you had Spanberger who was complaining about this in Virginia. Oh, defund the police is killing us. No, actually, that wasn't it because there were other Democrats who won. you also just had some democrats who lost because they were shitty campaigners that also happened so i i i get your point about on the crime deal but i still i still want to know who are five six seven eight ten people we should be looking out for again who your description, who you believe can win statewide and then who

can then win national. Who right now, outside of Fetterman, fits that model? Who? So, but Roland, you keep going back to the same thing, brother. I mean, you- No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not. Here's why I'm saying that. As an African-American, and I've been doing this since I was 14 years old, when I was sitting here looking at individuals covering politics and looking at individuals who are up and coming, who are state senators, people who might be a commissioner, hey, who are potential mayoral candidates, who are potential folks who can run statewide, because the reality is they've got to build something to actually get there. OK, even if you take an Obama, an Obama was frankly, that was lightning in a bottle. I'll tell you right now, that was lightning in a bottle. OK, to literally go from a state senator to president in the span of five years. I mean, that was lightning in a bottle. And so that rarely happens.

But that's just president. I'm talking about, if you're talking about the movement that you're describing, there has to be more than one person. And what I'm saying is, are we seeing this? Are we seeing this movement towards what you're describing? And if it is happening, then you could offer me more names who's actually doing it. You're thinking about it the wrong way, Roland. Let me address it in two ways. Number one, the problem with going from the bottom up, and everybody thinks you've got to go bottom up, you've got to go bottom up. And everybody thinks you got to go bottom up. You got to go bottom up. But the problem is that that process corrupts you. So in order to win those elections one by one, what do you have to do? You have to go and beg the donors. You have to go beg corporations. You have to go beg rich people. Please, please, please let me be mayor, rich person. Please, please let me be a congressman. Please let me be senator, rich person. Please, please, please.

By the time you're done with that, you're so dripping in corruption that you're never going to be the lightning in a bottle no what you actually need is the obama model and i keep i hate to say it but the trump model and they both they were both lightning in a bottle and they both came up from top they didn't you know you mentioned yeah i hear came at it from completely to top and Obama joked everybody in the proceedings of work they were both lightning in a bottle. So I'm giving you precedent

of people that came out of nowhere over and over again and you just won't hear it. You can't use Trump for Democrats and progressives because it doesn't work. It doesn't work. No one's ever tried enrolling. No, no, no. Everyone who's tried it, Roland. No, no, no. It doesn't work.

Everyone who's tried it has won. You actually think that Democrats and progressives are going to respond to a Trump-like Democrat, the same Republicans did? But not to the racism and the sexism and the crap

like that. Of course not. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the populist end where he says, screw the politicians, screw the establishment, screw the system, screw the donors. Now, he doesn't mean it. He doesn't mean it. That's why he's such a poison in this country.

If you had a progressive who believed that and said that, yes, they would win in a landslide. And then the one that came closest to it of doing that, you said, well, he didn't go hard enough, and that was Bernie. Yeah. If Bernie was a fighter, he would have won easily. In 2020, he would have won easily. In 2016, he would have been able to pull it out. Do you know that about a quarter of Trump supporters would have voted for Bernie?

Why? Because they're looking for a populist, and the Democrats won't give them one. Give them a populist, and they're going to vote for you. But instead, we keep putting up corpses like Joe Biden. Oh, here's a guy who's drenched in corruption. He's a senator from MBNA, a credit card company. Go over to this fossil who's obviously corrupt. And Jay, here's why I absolutely

disagree with you. And it is because the problem is it is what you're describing, that Trump candidate, is easier to run on the right because the buttons they can push. Democrat progressive voters are simply more broad and have

more varied interests. They just do. They just do. I mean, why did the younger voters stay home? Because we never give them a reason to show up. All of our guys, all of our lives, and really, you know this for a fact. Every Democrat promises the moon and the sky, and then they get in and go, oh, there's nothing I can do. I didn't pass any of the damn bills. Because all of the showbiz, the parliamentarian, my mom, my dog, my homework, my dog, my policy. They suck. They never deliver.

They never deliver. He shows up to vote for them. Give them somebody to vote for. Here's where you were wrong earlier when you shows up to vote for them. Give them somebody to vote for. Here's why you were wrong earlier when you said, well, I voted for you. And that's wrong. I have long said that the election is the end of one process and the beginning of another. One of the mistakes that Democrats make and one of the mistakes that progressives make is that they do not have a post-election strategy. When you have individuals who do get in there, and when they go through the whole compromise game,

what you fail to have is you fail to have the mechanisms, the machines, the groups that then are applying that level of pressure and challenging them when they're in there. I have said this about black people, and I've long said that, just like what A. Philip Randolph, when he talked to FDR, FDR said, make me do it. You have to make somebody do it. When MLK said, we're going to put that, be true to what you put on paper. The problem is, is after the election, folks are not then saying, all right, election's over.

Now I'm about to riot your ass to actually get it done. Now, that's one thing that has to happen. But the other thing that also has to happen, and it's just a fact, and that is Democratic voters are so varied in their interest that it's much easier on the Republican side to, frankly, put stuff on a bumper sticker when Democrats are totally different. And I just don't believe that what you're describing is going to work on a broader scale because you're having to appeal to so many different interests in order to get to that number. So let's start. You brought up a perfect example, Roland, MLK.

So now Martin Luther King didn't run for office, right? But he was involved in politics. And he put tremendous pressure on Lyndon Johnson. And when the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act were not good enough, he would not relent. No matter how much Lyndon Johnson and every Democrat in the world told him, you've got to relent, Martin. You've got to relent. You're too tough on him. He wouldn't. He pushed him as hard as he could. And then at the right time, he took the deal. You've got to have both sides. You've got to have someone.

But there were times, though, when he also had to buckle to the pressure of the reality. So, for instance, when they went to Atlantic City in 1964, when Fann Lou Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party, when they were putting pressure on them to integrate that party, LBJ was focused on re-election. He called Ruther, who then said, you tell King either you accept this deal or we're pulling your money. That's exactly what happened. When King went and told Fann Lou Hamer and Bob Moses and others, they were pissed at him and fired Rustin. But they had to say, hey, take this deal now, but we're going to have an integrated delegation in 1968.

So there were moments when King was also practical. Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Right. So that actually happened. But what I'm also saying, what I'm also saying, though, is that even he had to had to accept some constraints, if you it's not a problem. That's what's so crazy about this. The beauty to me of a democratic party, that it is much broader, it's much bigger, it's far more inclusive than the Republican party. But the Republican party is able to have a Trump-like candidate because frankly, you can press two or three buttons and they will fall in line. And here's something else the Republicans will do that Democrats will not do. They will fall in line.

You got Sununu, the governor of New Hampshire, who's been shitting on Trump left and right. Guess what he said the other day? He said, I'm a Republican. Bill Barr was shitting on Trump in a whole interview about how awful and dumb he was. But when asked if he gets the nomination will you vote for him he says i'll vote for him they republicans understand power democrats democrats will actually check out mad upset their person didn't win republicans be like damn that we want power so roland as i told you martin luther King and Rustin, who's a genius, they worked together

to put tremendous pressure on Lyndon Johnson. And then they took the deal at the right time. They were both. They created a lot of good trouble. And that's the part the Democrats are missing now. And then they were practical at the right time. That's the exact combo that we need. OK, but the problem now is the Democrats

don't create any trouble and they don't push anyone. And the minute Biden gets elected, you know, people say, oh, well, you should just push Biden. And I push Biden. And they go, how dare you? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, You know how much crap I've gotten in my life for pushing Biden, for pushing Obama. You know how much crap I've gotten? No, the Democratic Party is now totally authoritarian. They're more authoritarian than the Republicans. They all are forced to obey and comply.

It's disgusting. They never challenge their leaders. Are you talking about they all rally on the Trump side? No, they bought Trump tooth and nail. Whereas no one's fighting Biden, even though you all know he's going to lose. No one's daring to fight Biden. What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, again, this is where I go back to, frankly, the thesis of your book. When I talk about movements, when I talk about groups, in order to do what you're talking about, it's not actually going to happen with individuals.

It happens when movements. And so what I'm saying is this here, what I'm saying, like, for instance, what you're describing, you know what? I thought our revolution would actually do that. And so what I'm saying is this here. I still fundamentally believe, fundamentally believe that in order for what you're describing to happen, you're going to have to see folk not just only run for president. You've got to see it on a statewide level, and I'm not seeing enough of it. I hope it happens, but I haven't seen it. Outside of John Fetterman, you've only given me one name. So, Roland, if you saw Rustin and MLK in 58, you'd have told them there's no movement. You guys have been losing for 100 years straight.

No, no, no. 100 years they were losing. No, no, no. And you would have said, how dare you? No, no, no. Actually, because, again, here's what I understand. Earlier you talked about how that's even the opposite of politics. What happened would happen with the movement is that if you try to go national, that's not what made it successful.

What made it successful is that they went local and built it to national and and they achieved wins, which is why. Remember, what you just described, I actually asked you that. I said, if you have, again, to fit your definition in terms of progressives, who can win? I've said, do you have folks who are mayors, who are DAs in local offices? Are they running statewide? You mentioned Justice Democrats. So the Black Freedom Movement was able to be successful because Montgomery, success. They moved to Albany, wasn't a success because of the sheriff there. Then all of a sudden, they understood how to build successes, how to build local, how to build leaders.

And what I'm saying is, looking at your model, I need to see, is that being built? It can't just be built from the top. But, Roland, how much more can I do than building Justice Democrats? I founded that. No, no, no, no, no. I got that. And what I'm saying is, when Congressional seats, is that, I'm asking, no, no. I got that. And what I'm saying is. But hold on, hold on. You're just going to win the congressional seats. Is that, I'm asking you again, is that translated into higher office?

Roland, you're looking at the first third of a movie and going, oh, no, you can't win because I've only seen the first third. No, no, no, no. I said what I said. So now when I started 21 years ago, there was no progressives in media other than black radio. OK, and then so and then we built up an empire that was impossible. Then I started it. So all of a sudden, it turns out progressives can win in media. And then I started Justice Democrats and all of a sudden everybody thought it was impossible. We got 11 in. So that's grassroots. That's building from the top, from the bottom up. So we've done every

step of the process now i'm doing the presidential hold on now i'm doing the presidential race so i've done media i've done grassroots i've done congress now we're doing presidential what else do you want me to do do you want me to write anything of the movie and then give it to you and then you go after i win you go oh okay i see it now no so you would stop every movie right in the middle and go, no, not impossible. Don't do it. Don't do it. Get out of here.

No, just take the corporate campaign money. Vote for losers like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton who lose to Donald Trump. That's not it. Take all that stupid money and serve the corporate donors. Jack, it's not it. What I'm saying is this here. The model that you have described, that you have described in order for it to happen nationally,

you're going to have to win statewide races. And what I'm saying is, and I've asked you three or four times, and you haven't given me any name. Jake, I have. You asked the same question in 1958. You asked the same exact question.

How dare you? How dare you organize a civil rights movement? You can't show me any wins. You can't show me any wins. What I'm saying is the next evolution has to be how do you translate Justice Democrats wins in congressional races

to now statewide and national. That to me is the next challenge. I didn't say it can't happen. What I said is in order for what you're describing, in order for the thesis of your book, when you say how progressives are going to take over the country and America is going to love it, is that it is going to have to take folks going to the next level. And the only person you mentioned, Fetterman,

is the only example who's won statewide. And what I'm saying is, in order for this to happen, there are going to have to be more statewide wins to make this happen. Yeah, and that's exactly what I'm trying to do, Roland. And why have we interviewed hundreds of progressives on TYT, my network? You know, it gets no clicks at all. It's like we try so hard to get those folks pressed. It's not a thing because of the algorithm. I do the same thing.

And, look, I know what people click on. I purposely don't do gossip. I don't do Zeus Network fights. I don't do stuff that you see on Hollywood Unlocked in the Shade Room and some of these other different people, because my whole deal is you want to go there for that kind of stuff. That's great. But someone has to build this here. But I'm absolutely into, I understand, and I've spent significant time studying the Black Freedom Movement, talking to the architects of it it or how it was done.

And what I'm saying is what you're describing, the next phase definitely is going to be statewide. And when I look at what happened to Beto in Texas and I look at young voters, what I keep telling young voters is, hey, I get it. You want to be excited. You want to be fired up. But here's the whole deal. While you're waiting for that person, shit is being passed that ain't helping you. So you know what? You better get in the game regardless of whether you get excited or not. Because guess what? Somebody's going to win whether you vote or not. Final comment. Yeah. And the reason I brought up the interviews with progressives, even though they don't do well for us, you know, from a business perspective, is because I'm giving people an opportunity left and right. Every chance I get, I give others an opportunity so they can

rise up in the same exact ways that you're talking about. Whether it's Jamal Bowman and Cori Bush and AOC who won, whether it's Nina Turner who lost, whether it's Jamal Bowman and Cori Bush and AOC who won, whether it's Nina Turner who lost, whether it's the next Bowman or Turner that comes by, we give them an opportunity at TYT and the Young Turks because we believe what you're saying, Roland, which is we need an army. We need a grassroots army. We need to win in Congress. We need to win at the state level. And at the state level, only one person has ever tried it. It's John Fetterman. So we're one for one. So give me more of those candidates. Let's go run those candidates and give it to me at every level, including the presidential level. And that's why I'm here at jankforamerica.com. My site's also bidenisgonnalose.com. That redirects to my site because he's going to lose and we all know it. We're all in the Titanic. Either grab a

lifeboat or turn the wheel, turn the wheel, get somebody other than Joe Biden, because he is definitely going to lose to Donald Trump. And I don't want to voluntarily run into an iceberg. I don't want to hand this country over to Trump. And that's what Biden's planning to do with his egomaniacal run. Oh, I need to be a two-term president. My ego is more important than anything else. He's a narcissist. Get rid of him. Get a better candidate. Here's the whole deal. Okay. Anybody didn't think Biden wasn't going to run for a second term when he ran the first term, they're nuts. The reality is this here.

When he won, look, I wasn't delusional. I said, if you tripping about Biden being his age now, well, hell, he was old when he ran the first time. He was always going to run for a second term. The last president who chose not to run for a second term was Lbj that was going to happen so i'm not i'm not confused i'm not shocked confused that he's running for a second term at all that was always going to happen i know that's why hell reagan ran for a second term it was gonna happen so it's not like anybody is shocked that he ran for a second term folks the, the book is called Justice is Coming,

How Progressives Are Going to Take Over the Country, and America's Going to Love It by Cenk Uygur. Cenk, we appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you, Roland. I appreciate the conversation. All right. Enjoy.

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