#RolandMartinUnfiltered - GA GOP Maps Approved, Amazon Delivery Partner Attacked, NYT sues OpenAI, Judge Kim Book Series

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

12.28.2023 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: GA GOP Maps Approved, Amazon Delivery Partner Attacked, NYT sues OpenAI, Judge Kim Book Series A federal judge in Georgia approved the Republican-drawn congressional map, rejecting the argument that the latest district lines illegally diluted the voting power of minority residents near Atlanta.....Georgia's Legislative Black Caucus Chair Carl Gilliard....and Melanie Campbell.... President and C-E-O of the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation... will be here to discuss how this ruling will impact the 2024 elections.... An Amazon delivery partner RECORDS herself being attacked while trying to deliver a package in a Texas apartment complex..... I'll talk to Jah-MAYA Miller about what happened when she was just TRYING to do her job.  Nikki Haley is "back peddling" her answer about what caused the Civil War....She SAYS a Democratic 'plant set her up."  You'll hear what she said and HOW she's trying to clean it up.  The New York Times is suing "Open-AI and Microsoft for copyright infringement.   I'll talk to an A-I expert about the lawsuit ---- and how the artificial intelligence product can be seen as a threat. And I'll talk to a co-author of the children's book series,   "Judge Kim and The Kid's Court,"  designed to teach "OUR" kids about the law.  Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV. The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Thank you. ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത� Thank you. ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത� Thank you. Black Star Network is here. Hold no punches.

I'm real revolutionary right now. Black power. We support this man, Black Media. He makes sure that our stories are told. I thank you for being the voice of Black America, Roller. Be Black. I love y'all. All momentum we have now, we have to keep this going.

The video looks phenomenal. See, there's a difference between Black Star Network and Black-owned media and something like CNN. You can't be Black-owned media and be scared. It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home. You dig? Thank you. Să ne urmăm în următoarea mea rețetă. Să ne urmăm în următoarea mea rețetă! Să ne urmăm. Martin! It's Thursday, December 28th, 2023, and I'm Candace Kelley sitting in for Roland, who's on vacation.

Here's what's coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered streaming live on the Black Star Network. A federal judge in Georgia approved the Republican-drawn congressional map, rejecting the argument that the latest district lines illegally diluted the voting power of minority residents near Atlanta, Georgia's legislative Black caucus chair, Carl Gillyard, and Melanie Campbell, president and CEO of the National Coalition on Black Participation, will be here to discuss how this ruling will impact the 2024 elections. An Amazon delivery partner records herself being attacked while trying to deliver a package in Texas. And in a Texas apartment complex, I'll talk to Jamiah Miller about what happened when she was just trying to do her job. And Nikki Haley is backpedaling her answer about what caused the Civil War. She says a Democratic plant set her up,

and you'll hear what she said and how she's trying to clean it up. The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement. I'll talk to an AI expert about the lawsuit and how the artificial intelligence product can be seen as a threat. And I'll take a look and talk to the co-author of the children's book series, Judge Kim and the Kids Court, designed to teach our kids about the law. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network.

Let's go. He's got it. Whatever the piss, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's Roland. Best belief he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics

With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling It's Uncle Roro, y'all It's Roland Martin, yeah Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's rolling, Martel. Now. In Georgia, a federal judge ruled the new Georgia congressional and legislative voting district map that protects Republican partisan advantages is acceptable. Judge Steve Jones says the creation of a new majority black voting districts

fixed illegal minority vote dilution, and that led him to the order that the maps be redrawn. Jones dismissed claims that the new maps failed to do enough to help black voters. The maps were redrawn in October in a special legislative session after Jones ruled that a prior set of maps illegally harmed black voters. The new maps will be used in next year's elections.

They will likely keep the same 9-5 Republican majority among Georgia's 14 congressional seats while keeping GOP majorities in the state Senate and House. Carl Gillier, the Georgia Legislative Black Caucus Chair, and Melanie Campbell, the president and CEO of the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation. They both join me to discuss this ruling. Thank you so much for being with this ruling. Thank you so much for being with us today. I wanted to say yes, indeed. You know what, Melanie, I wanted to start with you. What does this mean exactly for the 2024 elections? It means that we have to keep

fighting not just through the courts, but also through the ballot box. We've had mixed results when it comes to the redistricting cases. We've won some cases, Georgia and Alabama being one of them. But in Georgia, what this has done, if it stands, if the plaintiffs don't continue to fight, then this will be much more difficult and it will actually reduce possibly a seat that is held by a black elected official. Lucy McBath makes it even harder for her to win in her district. I think it's District 6, north of Atlanta. And so we have to make sure that

we're talking about building black power, sustaining it. The courts do matter, and we have to use the ballot to fight back as well. We know that we still need reform when it comes to the Voting Rights Act. And the next election,

democracy is on the ballot. Voting rights is on the ballot next year. So it's just another reminder that our voting rights are continuously being under attack. And this is just a proof of that, even though what they should have done, they just didn't do the right thing. But that judge decided to continue to provide partisan advantage for one party. Now, Carl, the judge said in this decision that changes had already been made and that satisfied him. How would you explain to someone exactly what went on in terms of how they were redrawn

already in October, what that meant and how that doesn't really satisfy what's going on today in terms of voting blocks and black participation. Well, it doesn't give us a representation of districts of color. Certainly, you have two state Senate seats that kind of look the same in reference to just being shift around so we don't get two additional state Senate seats. The congressional seat, as prior that has been said, that Lucy McBeth kind of goes back into her old district. And then we have five that were supposed to be additional state seats. And that really gives us three. We've got now white Democrats that are being coupled against each other that are going to have to run against each other in this upcoming election. As the Georgia Legislative Black Caucus represents over three million black constituents, it's kind of displeasing and disheartening on today that this has happened.

But we have to go back to our constituents to educate them on the power of the vote. And when we talk about the power of the vote, Carl, and I'll stay with you here, what are the next steps for your organization to make sure that people are educated and how does that translate? We have to go and meet them where they're at. The Georgia Legislative Black Caucus, we went on the tour of a four-to-people tour across Georgia. We toured black farmers. We toured black universities. We're going to have to lean on young leadership. We're going to have to lean on a new voting population that is disenfranchised with the 2024 election already. And now as we go into session another week or so, now we've got to take time to educate and reeducate our constituents on why they're voting.

I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.

Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corps vet. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes, rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. It's so important. This election is an election that is a mandate on democracy,

and democracy is on the line. When you have a state that has a minimum wage of $5.15, but we say we're the number one state in the nation to do business, we've got to do business with the people of Georgia. And so these maps, now we have to go back and meet the people where they're at and to encourage them and to educate them on why we need them to come out and vote. Melanie, when we talk about the maps and how things could potentially turn out in the 2024 election, what really is the worst that could happen if you could break down the numbers and how things perhaps will probably turn out, which is why this particular map was fought in the first place? Well, I will say this about Georgia.

I spent half my time in Georgia and half my time in D.C. You can't count Georgia out. Black voters have had to come back again and again and again. You know, we work really closely. I work closely with Helen Butler and Debra Scott and Natasha Brown and Felicia Davis and many, many others. So I think the ecosystem in Georgia is very strong to fight back. You know, of course, Stacey Abrams and her groups. There's a strong political infrastructure in Georgia.

Yes, these kind of cases make it harder, but I have faith. And as our brother just said, you know, we have to just give people the information. Black voters are strategic with our vote, and we, we have to just give people the information. Black voters are strategic with our vote, and we've always had to fight. So it's not a new thing. It's just a 21st century version of voter suppression that constantly rears its head. And folks don't want to win in a fair—they don't want a fair fight. They just want to have the ability to win by suppressing others. And so we'll fight this one again, whether that's, again, whether or not they decide to go after, to push this further or have to make sure that we continue to elect folks who will do what the voters require. Georgia is sometimes blue, sometimes purple, in spite of the suppression that continues.

So I'm still cautiously optimistic that black voters will turn out. And a lot, and Georgia is definitely one of the states that, I've lived in Atlanta for 20 years before I came here, and the truth of the matter is, you just can't count black folks out. And they're strategic, and I think things still can go the way that the voters want them to, only the hurdles are just that much higher, though. You know, I want to bring our panel in on this discussion. We've got Dr. Greg Carr. He's with the Department of Afro-American Studies

at Howard University in Washington, D.C. I'm also joined by Lauren Victoria Burke. She is with the Black Press USA out of Arlington, Virginia. I want to thank you so much for being with us today, especially everybody still in the holiday season. Let me start with you, Dr. Carr. I'm sure that you have questions for our guests with this very important ruling. What would you like to ask one of our guests, Melanie or Carl? Thank you, Candace, and thank you, Brother Gillian. It's always good to see you, Sister Melanie.

This is for either of you. Reading Judge Jones's opinion today, he didn't rule out. In fact, he ruled kind of narrowly, it seems, given that the Supreme Court has punted, and now we know the white nationalists are just moving from racial gerrymandering to political gerrymandering, which is protected at least as long as they've got the white nationalists on the court. But Judge Jones said that, you know, the question of whether or not that multiracial district that McBath was in before, that coalition of color, that getting rid of it was a violation of the Voting Rights Act is not a question he answered today.

In fact, it almost sounded like he was trying to invite you to go back to court. Any thoughts on what the strategy is now, since really the Voting Rights Act hasn't been applied really to coalitions of color, but mostly to Black people? Well, let me say, prior to this broadcast, I was on the phone with the ACLU attorney, Chris Bruce and others, and leadership from Democratic Caucus. We are optimistic to study where we're at and to look at where we're going. It's not over, as I know, until God says it's over. But I want to coincide with one of our deep panelists that you were saying about, we're going to go to the people. We're going to take this fight to the people. There's a young generation that has not been stimulated.

There are black men that have not been talked to. And then there's a coalition of people that are young people from 17 and a half to 26 that don't know which way they're going to vote in 24. Let's go to the people. We've got to take the fight to the people and educate them. We go into session within another week. The Georgia Legislative Black Caucus, we're going to have several hearings all over the Capitol and in our districts to re-educate people and let them know. Some people don't even know that we came out of redistricting. They still think they're going to go to the polls

and see another person on the ballot. So it's our responsibility to educate them. Lauren. Melanie, how you doing? Carl, how are you? You know, it doesn't seem to be obviously a coincidence that Congresswoman McBath once again is targeted. It seems like the minute she got into Congress, they were looking at that seat, and I'm sure that they were very uncomfortable with the fact that Joe Biden won Georgia. And I just want to ask, you know, Melanie, how many times do you think that the voters in Georgia can pull this trick off? I mean, it's such a close state.

And the effort that it takes, the money that it takes to get everybody out is so difficult. So what do you think in general is going to happen next when we're hearing so much lately about a sort of lack of enthusiasm on the part of Black voters generally, not just Georgia, but just generally speaking? Well, first of all, I love that t-shirt you're wearing today. You'd like that. You know, it's never easy. It's just not easy. But that doesn't mean we're not going to do what we need to do. And I think that's the key to it, and that there is a longstanding infrastructure that has constantly been built.

Folks took a few days off, but everyone knows, including myself, I'm supposed to be off now. But, you know, Roland Martin calls, I'm supposed to be off now, but Roland Martin calls, I'm going to be there like he is for us. But the reality is it's just not going to be that much harder, but it doesn't mean that we can't win. And so I think the moment we decide that it's too hard,

that's when we will lose. And so I'm optimistic that because I'm nonpartisan, but I'm just going to say, Dr. Carr, from a political standpoint, anything can happen. And folks are used to, in Georgia, beating the odds. And so I think with that kind of a mindset and when people get tuned in and, you know, of course, it's going to take candidates doing what they need to do. I was down there for a few weeks, and Vice President Harris was down there for that classic game with Howard

and was it FAMU, I think it was? Yeah, it was? Yeah, I'm a Clarkite, so. And the reality is that they know they have, Georgia is an important state. And so I think there's going to be a lot of work, a lot of resources in Georgia and other states. And truly, we cannot run away from a fight when it's hard. Just that simple. Carl, you mentioned a number of young people that you really need to get their attention.

How many people do you think are not really rising to the occasion in your estimation that are young that you think once they get the message and the word that the work is theirs, that they hit the ground running? You know, I served under Leader Abrams, one of the greatest strategic leaders of this day and time. And she had a focus of registering over 250,000 people, people that believe her. She was very successful in registering and getting people out to vote. We have anywhere from 400,000-plus persons that have been purged off the list. We have a lot of disenfranchised young people. I have a daughter that's 26 years of age, and she constantly tells me, I don't know which way I'm going to vote, Democrat or Republican. That's saying something. That's saying that the issues of people have not been met. As we move forward in 2024, it's important that we don't go out and campaign on our agenda. We need to have a platform of what the people say. What are the people saying are the bullets that they want to talk about, that they want to hear about?

We talked about health care. We talked about all of the parables. We've got to talk about cornbread issues of this person working three jobs. Minimum wage and livable wage is a different subject. We're going to propose in Georgia now that we have a $20 livable wage. Mom and dad and cousins and Pookie and Kwan are trying to go to work, and they're working three jobs, and that's still not enough. So we've got to talk with, hear these young people. The Georgia Legislative Black Caucus, we went on a college tour

and we shut our big mouths and listened to the leaders and young people were talking to us. It's time for the leaders to listen. And if we don't listen, we're going to forfeit the opportunity to win this 2024 election on the state and national level. The GLBC is committed, and we're ready. All right, I just wanted to close out with a final comment from Melanie and Carl. Melanie, let me start with you.

What is it that you will be doing next? Obviously, probably a work day is tomorrow. What is on your agenda to get done before this year closes out? Well, I'm closing out Kwanzaa by not working tomorrow. OK, all right. Your next working day, Melody. Next week. Yes, next week. OK, next week. But the truth is, we've already been working. We've already been organizing. Folks have not stopped, took a break, yes, but never

have stopped. And what my brother said is very, very critical, that there's a lot of frustration in the community, a lot of economic insecurity in our communities, and we do have to listen. And we also have to organize and work in coalition and build and continue to build that our Black political infrastructure. And then I mentioned a whole lot of groups already, you know, already working, never really stopped. And so we have to work even more closely. So for us, the election started already. It started, 2024 was happening in 2023. We spent 30 days in Florida with our Pirate of Ballot campaign. We're going to continue that in doing the primaries.

We have to work through the primary season. A lot of times what happens when you have one party that doesn't seem to have a quote-unquote real race, if you will, people tend not to pay attention. We are going to be working throughout the primaries and doing just that, doing listening,

knocking on doors. The kinds of things that you have to go. It's harder work. It's more expensive work. But it's going to be even more important because people do have a level of frustration. What we just try to share is unfinished business. What is your unfinished business that you want to see happen? What do you want to see happen? And then connect that to the ballot. And hopefully people will own it and run with it and show up. All right, Carl, you get the final word. If there's a 24-year-old watching right now and they are thinking,

you know, I'm not really sure if I matter anyway. What's your message to them? Fannie Lou Hamer said it best. I'm tired of being tired. I ran for office because I was tired of being tired. We got to get, we have young interns. We have young leaders. It's time for us to get them involved. It's time for us to get them involved.

It's time for us to hear from them. We want to be your sounding board. We've got young state representatives in office right now, Representative Eric Bell, Representative Park Cannon, Representative Sam Parks, so many that have come from the ranks of young leadership. It's important that we hear from you and even the hip hop community

that we get involved to those influencers that can influence large audiences and educate them, not just influence them to get out and vote, but let's talk about what's going on. And it's important right now, as the Georgia Legislative Black Caucus is kicking off a contract with Black Georgia, those indicators, our contract deals with indicators from poverty to wages to healthcare to housing, especially the housing crisis. Let's talk about the elements that are affecting us. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at LavaForGoodPlus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs. good plus on Apple Podcasts. Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me.

Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.

And let's get young people involved. That's what we need to do going into this upcoming session and this upcoming election. All right. Melanie and Carl, thank you so much for being with us today and shedding light on this decision. I am sure there is more to come on this and the groundwork that you are doing. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. All right.

This is Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network, and we'll be right back. Grow your business or career with Grow with Google's wide range of online courses, digital training, and tools. Gain in-demand job skills with flexible online training programs designed to put you on the fast track to jobs in high-growth fields. No experience is necessary. Learn at your own pace. Complete the online certificate program on your own terms. Stand out to employers.

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and let your voice be heard. Hey, we're all in this together. So let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into. It's The Culture, weekdays at 3, only on the Blackstar Network. Next on The Black Table with me, Greg Carr. The enigma of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

What really makes him tick and what forces shaped his view of the world, the country and Black America? The answer, I'm pretty sure, will shock you. And he says, you know, people think that I'm anachronistic. I am. I want to go backwards in time in order to move us forward into the future. He's very upfront about this. We'll talk to Corey Robin, the man who wrote the book that reveals it all. That's next on The Black Table, only on the Black Star Network. Hey, what's up, y'all?

I'm Devon Franklin. It is always a pleasure to be in the house. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Stay right here. An Amazon delivery partner, Jamiah Miller, says she was just doing her job on December 16th at a Texas apartment complex when she ended up getting

assaulted and held against her will by two white residents. Let's take a look. We've had thieves here and you're a thief. Excuse me. Don't touch me. No, don't touch me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Please don't touch me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Please don't touch me. Don't touch me. Literally touching me. Don't get security. Okay, yeah, do that, please, because she's her last woman. Thank you. Please call security.

Thank you. Please call security. You don't call security. Excuse me. You don't. You're. Excuse me, ma'am. Excuse me, ma'am. Excuse me. She's attacking me. She's attacking me.

She's attacking me. Please call security. Excuse me, ma'am. Stop here. Excuse me, ma'am. Stop here. Excuse me. Excuse me, ma'am.

Excuse me. Amazon. Do that, please. Oh, please. Please do it. Maya Miller now joins us from Houston. Thank you so much for being with us today. I know that this had to have been a traumatic experience.

First of all, how are you doing? I'm doing better since this did happen on December 16th, so I'm definitely doing a little bit better than that night. Right. And take us to that night. You were making a delivery. And as a part of that delivery, there were special instructions that were attached to go right to the door of the resident.

And so what happened as you were trying to make this delivery? Exactly. Yep. Like you said, it had delivered to suite in the direction. So when I got to the building, the resident with the dog, she let me in. Nothing went wrong until we, I tried to exit the elevator on the floor that I was to deliver on. And she started berating me. They both started harassing me. And eventually the one with the phone that you see hitting me, she eventually, you know, is punching with her phone. She throws me up against another

resident's door. She even eventually dislodges the package from my hand. And at that point, I finally go to try to leave. And even that, she tries to keep me against my will on the floor. And eventually the doorman comes up with the first lady I interacted with, the one with the dog. They finally get there. So the situation kind of deescalates and I'm able to leave. But up until that point, I really had no idea how I was going to get out of the situation. And there's one part specifically in this video where she is saying you are hitting her, but she is clearly hitting you. I'm sure that in your mind,

that must have taken it to another level. It did. And honestly, before I slowed the video down and really looked at it, I wasn't sure how much I got on camera. I'm glad I got her literally saying that I was attacking her as she's hitting me. I do think that lends to my credibility some because there were a lot of things that she

was spewing that, yeah, it was my word against hers, but I'm glad that I do have that video because, yeah, that was just a really dangerous situation. If law enforcement got there and, you know, she's saying these false things. Right. Your word against her word. And then it's just really left up to whoever decides who's telling the truth. Where are you now in terms of what Amazon has said to you or done for you or what you are doing in terms of your next steps for any accountability? Yep. So I have not been able to bring myself to continue working with Amazon. They haven't enacted anything. They are allowing me to.

I am still contracted as an Amazon Flex employee, so I could do that. But the emotional turmoil of not knowing if I'm going to have to deliver in another area like that or interact with another resident like that has just been, it's been honestly like insurmountable. So I haven't actually been able to pick up another Amazon shift. Amazon contacted me this morning. They expressed, you know, their support. They are also conducting their own investigation and working with my local law enforcement here in Houston. So, yeah, it does seem like Amazon's behind me. Are you going to press charges? Oh, yeah, for sure. All right. And has any, have you been, yes?

Oh, sorry. I did actually press charges. Like the night of, I told the police that I wanted to go ahead with pressing charges that I did classify this as an assault. So they took the police report the night of on site. She was in her home. The doorman was there. They didn't speak to anyone. They didn't attempt to make any arrests. So now at this point, police are still looking for her.

The investigator told me as of yesterday he still hasn't been able to identify her. Despite knowing the building, despite knowing the floor that she lives on, apparently the building cannot tell the investigator, the police, who this resident is. So, yeah, the investigation is moving kind of slow right now. I see. And in terms of the protocol, this is kind of par for the course. You've done this before where you've gone into buildings when there have been special requests

to drop items at the door. That's not abnormal. Exactly, yeah. I do several different gig apps. I do DoorDash, Uber, Amazon. And this is very, very normal. A resident to see you and identify you as an Amazon employee because you have your vest, you have a package, and they just let you in. It's never been a problem before. This was, this, how it escalated was super out of the ordinary.

And in terms of, I mean, we really can't see her face. Was she about in her 70s, I'm guessing? I would say, yeah, at least that. Okay. All right. So Amazon, they did provide this statement to local affiliate KPRC. The events depicted in this video are concerning. We're supporting a delivery partner and working with law enforcement as they investigate. We proactively communicate to drivers who deliver for Amazon that they are never required to make a delivery if they feel unsafe. A representative from Bellmead at River Oaks apartment complex

released this following statement. Our staff is aware of the unfortunate incident that took place on December 16th between an Amazon delivery driver and two residents. The actions of third parties do not in any way reflect the values of Bellmead at River Oaks. We care deeply about creating a hospitable environment and safety of all residents, guests, employees, and service providers. The Bellmead at River Oaks policy is that all packages

and parcels are to be delivered to the concierge's desk. To the best of our understanding, a resident mistakenly allowed the Amazon delivery driver onto restricted access elevator and a resident halfway within the building where the event took place. At this time, we are exploring all options and fully cooperating with the Houston Police Department.

Due to the ongoing investigation, please direct all further inquiries to HPD. So I know that you have suffered so much emotional trauma from this run-in with these two women. What do you think, though, about the responses, these two responses, especially the second one from Bellmead. Yeah. So I'll say that Amazon's response is consistent with how I have felt from them, even from the night that I called. I had to call their emergency dispatch. And they've always throughout this process been very supportive of me. I do know, like they said, that it is their policy that if you are unsafe and you can't complete a delivery, that it is okay to not complete that delivery. That's why when she did dislodge the package from my hand, I was like, whatever, I left.

But the Bell Mead, I think, has had a very interesting response. They can do more. I do believe that this resident should be evicted and that that process should already start taking place. The apartment complex has admitted that violence from tenants on their property is called for an eviction. So I do think that there is more that they could be doing, that they could be doing it swifter. I do believe that they are protecting this woman and they're trying to protect themselves, honestly. So they hired this fancy PR to handle everything. They haven't reached out to me. They haven't made any statements that are in actual support. They're kind of doing the PR thing where they're just trying to cover themselves. So, yeah, I honestly

don't really have respect for the response because it's not necessarily accurate. If they are doing all that they can and, you know, they're trying to handle this matter, I do think an eviction is in order for sure. So as you said, assault, potentially battery, I'll throw in there in terms of a potential eviction. So you are really working. I want to make sure to bring in our panelists here on this one. Lauren, let me first go to you and your questions that you might have for Jamiah. Well, Jamiah, I'm sorry that you went through this. I don't really have a question other than to say I think you should hire an attorney. The statement from Bell Mead was obviously a legal ass cover trying to sort of dodge any liability for effectively an assault on their property. That's what all that who shot John in there about the packages

have to be delivered to the desk and you effectively snuck into the building. That's all nonsense. And I would have an attorney, and you have several very good attorneys in the Houston area, look over this entire situation. I am curious about the police. Exactly what is the disposition right now of the police? So I've spoken to an investigator. They've been honestly very slow moving. It wasn't until 10 days after the whole incident that I was even contacted by an investigator. They're kind of not throwing their hands up, but saying that they're getting a lot of roadblocks in trying to locate her. Thank you so much for the words. And I also agree about the attorney. It has been honestly sort of difficult process. So I'm trying to vet and get on calls as of recently. So as of now, I still have not secured representation in Houston with someone

who can practice in Texas. So that call is still out there. I'm monitoring my DMs for lawyers and speaking to people. So, yep, I'm definitely still in search for that. And if there are attorneys who are out there, reach out right now, right? Because I'm sure that someone is thinking, I can step up and help this young woman. So the next move is on you to actually do that. Dr. Carr, I wanted to hand this over to you. Questions for Jamiah. Thank you, Candace, and thank you, Ms. Miller, for being courageous in the face of that. That couldn't have been easy, and I'm sure you're still trying to work through it.

You may already know this. The day before this woman assaulted you, the Wisconsin Supreme Court actually opened a trial for Amazon workers, particularly gig workers like you, independent contractors, Amazon Logistics in particular, not Amazon Flex, as to whether or not you all are independent contractors or employees of Amazon. Because if you're an employee of Amazon, then you get the unemployment,

you get insurance, you get the rights and benefits, including protections from discrimination. I have a couple of questions in that regard. Has Amazon said anything about their policy as it relates to what I think in terms of the Amazon chain of delivery is the worst job, namely your job, that last mile thing, because people ask you to put something in front of their door and they don't say nothing about security codes. They don't say nothing about doing it. So you were there, you know what I'm saying? But, but, but, you know, kind of echoing what Candace said and what Lauren said, the Amazon may be trying to work through it, but at the same time, if they don't extend you to protection literally to the front door, I guess what

I'm asking is, do you know anything about Amazon's policy toward independent contractors that, because they put you all in a terrible situation, does it extend literally to the front door? Then the second question is, any thoughts on whether or not Amazon should, you know, Amazon workers are unionizing all over the country, whether or not Amazon should treat you all like independent contractors or employees of Amazon? That's a really good question. And honestly, my personal feelings are that the gig economy and the independent contractor model is set up to be able to exploit workers and exploit people who need to take advantage of that, like myself, who need the money.

But I could go on all day about literally, yeah, the independent contractor setup is not appropriate for what we have to do as Amazon Flex drivers. You are doing a job for Amazon. It is a complete and full job. So, yeah, you can't do what you want. You have to follow the rules. There is a schedule once you pick up the schedule. So, I completely agree that Amazon's independent contractor, that whole structure, them taking advantage of this gig economy is convenient. And maybe also them being super supportive of me is a convenient position for them to take right now. I'm hopeful that they'll lend more support and that, you know, if I'm happy, go lucky with them, that they'll keep on supporting and maybe even help out on the legal front, because they did mention that, that that is their policy. If something violent

happens, that they do do a full investigation and decide that if on their behalf they need to pursue legal action against whoever committed the violent act against their employees. So that's all I've heard, honestly, just pretty vague. I'm remaining hopeful because I don't know if I have another choice because I do want Amazon to be cooperative and help me as much as possible. But yeah, I see definitely where you're coming from with the Amazon critiques and me and the people I work with in Amazon definitely have the same ones. And when you talk to other Amazon workers, or I'm not sure if you do, or maybe they've DM'd you, do you hear similar stories that we may not

have heard of? Oh yeah. I keep on hearing stories of people saying, although it didn't necessarily get to the point of physical violence or nearly as bad. And some people say, yeah, the same thing happened to me, but I wasn't lucky enough to get it on camera. Or, yeah, a lot of different scenarios. So I do believe it is a rampant problem that, like you said, once we're trying to get packages to people's front door, that step, we're very vulnerable. There have been people, just all sorts of things, and there is no real, like, emergency call button, or we don't have, like, I know it seems extreme, but body cams we walk around with, anything like that, we don't, there's no protections on that front. So, I mean, I do think Amazon has a long way to go before people like me, the Amazon delivery partners

are made to feel safe. All right. Well, we will be following up with you. And if there is anybody who even if you know someone who knows someone, reach out because Jamiah is vetting people, looking for someone to assist her. You're in a very interesting situation

where, again, you know, the whole employee contractor thing, you just ride on the cusp and no one so far has stepped up for you fully. So hopefully that will happen. And I thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much. I really appreciate y'all covering it. Absolutely. Absolutely, Jamiah. All right. Roland Martin Unfiltered will be right back

here on the Black Star Network. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1,

Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. and three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th, ad free at lava for good. Plus on Apple podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod.

And this is season two of the war on drugs. We are back in a big way, in a very big way, real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star studded a little bit, man. We got a Ricky Williams,

NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne

from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill.

NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars.

Workers skilled through alternative routes, rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. hatred on the streets a horrific scene a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence white people are losing their damn minds there's an angry pro-trump mob storm to the u.s capital we're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial. This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress,

whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the wrath of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. Hi, I'm Dr. Jackie Hood-Martin, and I have a question for you. Ever feel as if your life is teetering and the weight and pressure of the world is consistently on your shoulders?

Well, let me tell you, living a balanced life isn't easy. Join me each Tuesday on Black Star Network for a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. We'll laugh together, cry together, pull ourselves together, and cheer each other on. So join me for new shows each Tuesday on Black Star Network, A Balanced Life with Dr. Jackie. family louder and prouder. You're watching Roland Martin. I'm Phil. Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley is trying to clean up her response after being asked about the cause of the Civil War. This was during a New Hampshire campaign event on Wednesday night. Here's what she said. What was the cause of the United States Civil War?

Well, don't come with an easy question or anything i mean i think the cause of the civil war was basically how government was going to run the freedoms and what people could and couldn't do what do you think the cause of the civil war was i'm sorry? I mean, I think it always comes down to the role of government. We need to have capitalism. We need to have economic freedom. We need to make sure that we do all things so that individuals have the liberties so that they can have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to do or be anything they want to be without government getting in the way. What do you want me to say about slavery? Next question.

All right. Now here's Haley trying to clean up what she didn't say. About the Civil War. And what I think of the Civil War, what was the cause of the Civil War? Of course the Civil War was about slavery. We know that. That's unquestioned, always the case. We know the Civil War was about slavery. But it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government.

For 80 years, America had the decision and the moral question of whether slavery was a good thing and whether government, economically, culturally, any other reasons, had a role to play in that. By the grace of God, we did the right thing, and slavery is no more. But the lessons of what that bigger issue with the Civil War is that let's not forget what came out of that, which is government's role, individual liberties, freedom for every single person, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to do and be anything you want to be without anyone or government getting in your way, that should be the goal of what we always try and take away from that, right? Because we never want to return back to that place, but we always want to remember the lesson of what it means to be a free individual and that everyone deserves to be a free individual. So we stand by that. I say that as a southerner. I say that as a southern governor who removed the Confederate flag off the statehouse grounds. And I say that as a proud American of how far we have come. Today, she is alleging without evidence

that the questioner was potentially a Democratic plant. All right. Dr. Carr, I'm going to start with you. What say you about her initial statement and then her cleanup? I love Nikki Haley. It gives you so much fodder, right? That's why you love her.

Seriously, I love Nimrata Ranjawa, her maiden name. I love Nimrata, whose father, Anjit, taught for almost 30 years before he's college in South Carolina at HBCU. I love Nimrata because Nimrata is, one thing about her, she's honest. When you look at, I think Shakespeare called it in Julius Caesar, the lean and hungry look. Look at her face.

This is a woman who, this is a person whose ambition knows no bounds. One of the reasons I really love her is because she is indeed the face of naked political calculation. She says, I'm the governor who took down the Confederate flag. No, no, no. You should give that credit where it belongs, to the martyrs at Mother Emanuel, to Senator Clementa Pinckney, who was murdered along with the others there by the white nationalist who is still alive, as the cops took him to get some fast food meal before they put him in jail.

And I won't even mention his name. But if you go back to 2015, anybody, go on C-SPAN and watch the all-night debate that was had in the South Carolina legislature, some of the most remarkable speeches and debates that I've ever seen in a legislature, the black women and men of the South Carolina legislature who took it to those hillbillies and got that flag down. Then Murata got a lot of political capital out of that. Reverend E.X.

Slave was the nickname of the brother who for years took a ladder, a stepladder, and tried to take down that Confederate flag, and failing that, tried to set it on fire. Shout out to the people in Columbia, South Carolina, people like my friend Bernie Gallman and Jerome, and a lot of the brothers and sisters out there who remember this brother, and also to our young sister who climbed the pole and took that flag down, finally got it down in the next in the tradition. So Nimrodda gets a lot of credit, but she has never finally shrunk from taking credit for other people's deeds. And that damn Confederate flag, she's wrapped herself in taking that flag now.

But one of the reasons, finally, I love her is that she, in the face of naked ambition, makes it very clear that white nationalism comes in many colors. Nikki Haley is a white nationalist. And whether it be Hayman Clare for something Bree Newsom triggered or for something that Roof triggered when he massacred the Charleston Africans there, she understands that in South Carolina, it's the war between the states. In South Carolina, as in Tennessee and Georgia and Mississippi, it is the war of Northern aggression, that the Daughters of the Confederacy fought a textbook war from around 1900 to about 1940 to make sure that the textbooks taught that. When her family came here, even though they lived off the money paid to them by black war from around 1900 to about 1940 to make sure that the textbooks taught that. And when her

family came here, even though they lived off the money paid to them by black people at an HBCU, that ain't stopped their daughter from saying, I fully embrace white nationalism too. We must roll over Nikki Haley like the sea because she can't be redeemed. She can't be reformed. She must be removed politically. So this was no surprise, right, for you. Lauren, I am wondering, she fell down. Did she get back up by trying to redeem herself? Not really. You know, I'm not really completely sure that she's a white nationalist. I really think she's sort of a dummy and an airhead at the end of the day. I don't really think it's that complex. I think she was trying to pander to the Trump voters, and when you're trying to pander to

the Trump voters, you ultimately have to be lying. And so I really, I actually am confused. Her follow-up tells me that she may actually not know the true history of the South. I mean, you do want to believe that she does know the history and she's smart enough to dodge it in that particular setting. But I'm not sure about that, because there's a lot of people who are taught a bunch of nonsense when it comes to the Civil War in the United States. And she may be one of those people, even though her father was an educator, because he may have been teaching a

bunch of nonsense as well. Who knows, right? Because this is the United States where we dodge these questions. You know, to repeat what Dr. Carr said, this was the woman that was standing by the Confederate flag until nine black people were murdered at Mother Emanuel and then suddenly had a conversion. And that's why the conversion happened, because nine people were murdered at Mother Emanuel and then suddenly had a conversion. And that's why the conversion happened, because nine people were murdered at a Bible. Nine black people were murdered by a white supremacist at a Bible study. That's what it took to wake Nikki Haley up. Right. And so this is what you see when you get people who are afraid to speak the truth and truth to power, which we are not in a truth to power era. We're in a mob rule era right now in American history. And

the truth to power era would dictate that you would tell people things they don't want to hear, you know, sort of in the style that John McCain did when the woman got up at his event and called Barack Obama something negative, and he stops the event and corrects her. We don't live in that era anymore. So she's trying to pander to the MAGA right, to Trump's voters, and again, I'm not really completely sure that she knows what she's talking about

because the initial statement and then the follow-up sounds particularly ignorant. I mean, I would like to believe that she was smart enough to be politically tactical, but I'm not too sure about that. I think it's very interesting, too, Lauren, that they fed her the information and said, what about slavery? And she said, well, what about slavery? And also had the time to Google or have somebody who was an assistant of hers give her some information before she made that second statement. You know, Dr. Carr, do you think that this is something that's indicative of how she will go about in terms of her campaign,

in terms of what you feel about her and and what she is doing right now in this moment? Because she certainly is surging at the polls. See, that's tough. I don't know. And this is a very interesting conversation. Her parents ran a business in black community in South Carolina as well. I'm not sure. Now, if you take them out of the United States

and take them to India, then you're going to get a conversation about caste, about the Dalits, about the untouchables. And let's be very clear about this. These are not black Indians. I'm talking about the Indian subcontinent. So there's a conversation of race, this globalism relates to this.

I'm not sure that she can course correct. I agree with you, Lauren. She's not particularly bright. She's certainly not astute politically. But I do think, given that she was born and raised in South Carolina, given that she has been in politics in South Carolina for an appreciable amount of time, that this is naivete.

If I had to speculate, I would speculate that the person that asked me that question wasn't with the white nationalist party, wasn't with the Republican party. Could have been a plant. But that is exactly the point, because if you're from the South or if you know anything about this conversation, you know that they call it the war of northern aggression, the war between the states. So the response to what the cause of the Civil War is, the correct response politically, is to say that it's about states' rights. She was not wrong there. But in trying

to square the circle, what began to be revealed is that she can never be ready for prime time in a country where she is using race as the center of her political appeal. I don't think that she doesn't know South Carolina history. You can't live in South Carolina, quite frankly, in that language. I think that that doesn't play on the road as DeSantis is finding out. So I think her presidential ambition is dead in the water. But we're going to unfortunately have to smell it

until it's finally over. And that's just a stench that, you know, we're just going to tolerate. And you're right. When it comes to the Civil War, they fought to try to determine whether or not the states had the right to do what they could have done in terms of slaves and the economy and whether or not it should exist or not. But it seems like she just didn't want to say the word slavery, right? She danced all around it. Now, Lauren, I'll pull you back off of Dr. Carr.

What do you think about her saying this could have been a plant? Who cares if it was a plant or not? Your answer would remain the same whether it was a plant or not if you have a brain in your head. It doesn't matter whether the person is a plant. What matters is what you say. Doesn't matter what everybody else is saying. You're trying to project yourself as a leader, as somebody who wants to be the president of the United States. So who cares whether or not it was a plan? The fact that she's surging against a guy who was quoting Adolf Hitler the other week and another guy who's trying to dismantle black history in Florida is an embarrassment in itself, because in this group,

Chris Christie actually looks like a profile in Courage, because her entire M.O. is to try to avoid, right, try to avoid pissing off Trump's voters. That's what this game is. And so you're always going to look ridiculous, because, of course, there is no way to win that game unless you go full on against Donald Trump, of course, there is no way to win that game unless you go full on against Donald Trump, which is what Christie is doing. Now, he's not winning. Who knows what would happen if she at least had the guts to stand up against Donald Trump in full. But, you know, she's not brave enough for that. There's not enough courage there for that. She's

trying to do this dance and play this game. And that is why you got this ridiculous answer, uh, that is insanely embarrassing. I have no idea why these people think that, you know, there's not a video rolling or something like that. I mean, she looks ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. All right. More to come on Nikki Haley, certainly because, in fact, she is surging at the polls. We'll continue to follow that story. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. We'll be right back. And they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott.

And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars.

Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tayPaperCeiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. We talk about blackness and what happens in black culture. We're about covering these things that matter to us, speaking to our issues and concerns. This is a genuine people-powered movement. A lot of stuff that we're not getting.

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The group MomsR Rising handles all of this. So join me in this conversation with my guest, Monifa Bandele. This is white backlash. This is white fear that happens every time Black people in the United States help to walk the United States forward towards what is written on the paper. Right here on The Frequency on the Black Star Network.

Farquhar, executive producer of Proud Family. You're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, listen, everybody. We have some breaking news. Maine's Democratic Secretary of State has removed Trump from the presidential primary ballot. All right. So these states are stacking up, are they not, Dr. Carr? We have things that are in court, in process, in transition. We heard from Michigan. We heard from Colorado. What are your thoughts about this breaking news, sir?

Well, again, I love it because this funky settler enterprise is going to have to be dismantled at some point anyway, and we're getting close to the test. You know this, Candace, I mean, and certainly Lauren and a lot of the viewers know as well, the question of federalism is best supported by these white nationalists when it supports them. They all about states' rights until they're not. This is a question of the 14th Amendment, as has been covered on this show. The third section of the 14th Amendment is very clear about who can and can't run, except it doesn't mention the presidency.

There is a legal issue to be raised here, but of course, as we know, these are issues of federal elections are the purview of the states. The states got to run the elections. So in Colorado, they did not take, remove Trump from this without legislation, without a law that said they had the power to do it. In Michigan, they didn't reach the issue of whether they could do it because they said in the primary, the party is able to select who they want. Now, the open question in Michigan, which they didn't get to, is if he makes it to the

presidential election, do you have the authority? But all this stuff is governed by state statutes. Now, I haven't read the mayor of the Maine statute, but what probably will be revealed is that the Maine statute gives the Maine government the authority to do this. So people are saying, you know, the Trumpsters are saying they didn't take him off here, they didn't take him off here. No, no, no, no. It's a question of what's in the statute. Finally, John Roberts is losing his mind right now.

He sure is. You know what I'm saying? His funky little court is about to lose all legitimacy. I'm sure of the three, whether it be Katonji Onyeka-Brown Jackson or Sonia Sotomayor or Elena Kagan, Kagan is the one he's in the ear of because she's been the most unreliable on this question of trying to bring peace. I can't imagine when they rule on this, they're not going to get a 9-0 because Katonji Brown

Jackson seems to be the defender of the 14th Amendment. But there's no language on this. There's no decisions on this that I'm aware of. There's no rulings on this. If you are a person who has mounted insurrection and you are president of the United States, can you be disqualified on a state ballot? That is the question John Roberts swears he never wants to answer. But because of this, because of this conflict of laws at the state level, he's going to have to answer it. And I cannot wait to read that opinion. I'm sure you can't either. Oh, absolutely. Listen, waiting for January 4th, that's when paperwork will be fired. That's the deadline for Trump to file that

paperwork to determine this question as to what power the states have. He wants, Lauren, the Supreme Court to make this decision. What are your thoughts about what the Supreme Court can and should do in this situation? You know, I don't know what they'll do, actually. I have I really have no idea. It is an interesting question of states' rights, though. And it's also an interesting question because even though I think certainly what he did, what happened there was certainly under the definition of treason, we do have to remember that Trump has actually not been convicted of anything yet. I know the 14th Amendment question is really about the treason question and not the conviction question, but I don't know what the court is going to do.

But certainly this is going to come to a head in a huge way, because every time there's a decision like this, his supporters do get to argue, whether we agree with it or not, that the question of, it's an ironic question in his case, that our democracy is sort of undone by the fact that we do not get the choice of having someone on the ballot because of this question. But again, the question has to be answered by somebody, and that would be the Supreme Court. I actually like the idea of him being on the ballot because I like knowing exactly who the fools are. You know, I want to know who is supporting this guy, how many people are supporting this guy, who in Congress continues to support this guy? And we don't get that unless he is on the ballot as a named candidate.

So it's a it's definitely a collision that is that is coming very quickly. And we're going to see the answer to it very soon. And, you know, Dr. Carr, I agreed with Lauren in many ways in that. Let's just get him on the ballot, because some people have been arguing that if you don't put him on the ballot, well, then if he's not, he's going to be fighting any type of vote or certification thereafter because his name was not on it. Put him on, get rid of this whole issue so that we can move the needle.

What are your thoughts about that? Well, politically, yes. But that means that... We know that the rule of law in any society is a fiction, absent its ability to be consistently applied. We know that the 14th Amendment, we know why it was drafted, why it was passed, and how it has been used, particularly in what some people call the second Reconstruction in the 1960s.

But what's really on trial here, and Melanie said it earlier, talking about the Georgia case, what's really on trial here is the question of whether or not there is a rule of law in this country. The 14th Amendment is clear. In other words, this is why I don't expect Katonji Brown Jackson to go with whatever they're going to try to cook up. Kagan will go,

I think. Sotomayor, probably not. Katonji Brown Jackson, absolutely not, because either the 14th Amendment means something or it doesn't. Now, Jack Smith, they trying to punt behind that because Smith is like this man that said the president don't, ain't no rules apply to him when it comes. And Roberts was able to dodge that bullet like the Matrix. But this one, he can't dodge.

I think there's a bigger issue here. Politically, I agree. I agree with y'all. Let's get it out in the open and have the fight. But if you don't have any rule of law that means anything, see, let me just end with this. See, what these white nastas count on is

the rest of us believing in the fiction that the law means something. Now, the minute we stop believing that, oh baby, and this is what's at trial. If the 14th Amendment don't mean nothing, then let's fight. Right. Either it means something or it doesn't.

You know what I'm saying? The minute we walk, look, Lexi Hughes said it, the Negro meek and mild. Beware the day they change their minds. We all have been saying it don't mean nothing. Roberts is not sleeping at night because this is the case. This is the test. And what terrible precedent that if we say

that part doesn't mean anything, what about the other parts, the due process and the equal protection parts of the 14th Amendment? Why even go there? That just opens up the door. We've been believing in every other part of the 14th Amendment just up until now. And now, switching everything. I think the Colorado case, for those of you who have not read it,

it is interesting because Colorado had to make the case. Unlike the procedural issues that we didn't even get to the decision-making process in Michigan, in Colorado there were facts. In Colorado there was testimony. In Colorado there was evidence, which is why they were able to make the decision that they did. Who wants the last word? I will leave it. Dr. Carr or Lauren, who wants the last word? I will leave it. Dr. Carr or Lauren, who wants the last word before we close?

You're like, I'm done. Lauren? You know, because Lauren wants to get people up close. Go ahead, Lauren. I don't know that we believe in the rest of the 14th Amendment. I mean, due process. I don't know that we believe in the Constitution.

You know, you talk about freedom of religion and all that, and then I watch a member of Congress get censured because of their religion. So I'm not sure about what we believe in. What we really believe in, when these members swear in and they, you know, swear to the Constitution and upholding the Constitution and all that, that gets really complicated. But, you know, as we both know,

I think, as we all know, the collision is coming. The moment of truth is coming on these questions very quickly. Dr. Carr? Well, John Roberts probably got that old Slick Rick song echoing in his head. It was the moment I feared. It was the moment I feared. This is going to make Bush versus Gore look like a throat clearing exercise. Oh, my goodness. All right. Let's move on to some AI news. The New York Times, the big one, is suing OpenAI and Microsoft to end the practice of using its stories to train chatbots. The federal complaint accuses the two companies of advancing their technology

through the unlawful use of work owned by the New York Times. Artificial intelligence and automation expert Patrick Dix is here to break this lawsuit down. Patrick, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you. I appreciate you having me again. Now, tell us a little bit about why the New York Times is suing, because there have been other people from Sarah Silverman to others who have brought up this issue. But this one seems to have some teeth because they have come with the receipts. Well, with the New York Times, one of the big reasons that they are suing, it revolves around money. And one of the things is with OpenAI and Microsoft using chatbots, they're able to emulate journalists and they're able to emulate writers. So one of the things is if you go to the New York Times website and after a certain number of times visiting the website, it'll ask you to subscribe.

What will happen is readers will be able to go to the chat box from the stories that it's generated, go to the chat box and get those stories versus going on the website and subscribing to the site. So it all boils down to money. That is the ultimate thing that just boils around, money. Right. So what you're saying is that when you go to chat GPT, for people who don't know, you can put in a search, and in that search, it might retrieve information from the world of the Internet, and one of those articles might be from the New York Times that on another platform, New York Times,

you would have had to pay for. But ChatGPT, you don't pay for it, but it will bring to you that same information that you would have had to pay for elsewhere, translating into they're losing money, just like Patrick said. So what is the New York Times saying exactly and what they want to happen, Patrick? Basically what they want to say, they want to ultimately reach an agreement to where they can allow them to use their information because other platforms, if you read the article, have reached agreements with Microsoft and OpenAI to say, hey, you can use our information, but you have to pay us for it.

Again, it boils down to money. So the New York Times is going to smarten and wise up and say, hey, why not use this as a way to make money versus just keeping them away from the information? And that's what New York Times is arguing about now. Should we get compensatory damages or should we just take this to court? Because there are no rules or regulations that stop this from happening. And this is the gray area of artificial intelligence. And we must have regulations put in place to prevent this from happening because this will continue to happen. And I could see cases like this reaching the Supreme Court to have the rule on it. Absolutely. In due time, the Supreme Court is ultimately have to have to decide on AI. You know, I think what's interesting about what the New York Times has also said in their argument

is that when you put a search in chat GPT, it spews information based on the New York Times. But that information is almost identical to the articles. And that's another issue. So now you have this information that you've generated a search for, and it reads almost exactly like the original article itself. So they are kind of on the fence about whether or not this actually makes sense for them. What do you think, Patrick, about this idea that if you do put a search in, that that generated search actually put a search in, that that generated search actually retrieves something different, something that really belongs to you

all of a sudden? Well, I spoke to a lawyer friend of mine about this earlier, about how the New York Times, they do have legal grounds to sue for intellectual property and copyright infringement. And what people don't realize, when you go to chat GPT, just like when you do a Google search, it holds your IP address and it remembers where that information came from. So when you see people online saying, hey, I'm going to use AI to generate an image, or even when you use chat GPT, because what people don't know about chat GPT is eventually you have to pay for it if you want to get different results. So every time you go to chat GPT, you're actually letting it get a data set. It's going out to other data sets, excuse me. It is learning what you're searching for and it's going out to pre-existing data sets using

machine learning. So it is learning, hey, this person looked for this, this person looked for that. And even if it was to go on another article, let's say the New York Times or to go on to the Wall Street Journal, that is the gray area to where, hey, is this copyright infringement or are we stealing someone's intellectual property? That is the defined gray area that has not been discussed legally or in court yet. And another gray area that I want your opinion on, Patrick, is who is actually doing the infringement? Do you blame the person who's actually doing the search equally to ChatGPT?

Or do you think that ChatGPT is the heavy in this situation? Well, the person doing the search, they don't know they're infringing on someone's IP or copyrighted material. I blame OpenAI, ChatGPT, Microsoft, those companies because they know they're going to have end users. Millions of people a day go on ChatGPT to have assignments written. They look for information. They have reports written.

So the actual person does not know they're violating the law. But OpenAI and ChatGPT and Microsoft, all three of those constituents know they are breaking the law. But they want people to use their service to keep coming back. And eventually, as we all know, it boils down to money to get people to get a subscription with them to keep being fed this information. Lauren, I went online the other day, and someone sent me a link. It was a news reporter in a studio. She was, you know, doing stories.

Her voice was over video, just like we see. This was not a real woman at all. She didn't exist. I mean, in the world of journalism, this is something that we are really having to grapple with. What are your thoughts, especially from your journalistic perspective, about AI and the way that it's being used and showing up everywhere? Well, one of the things is you all were talking about the political atmosphere earlier. One of the scary things is about chat bots. They learn from data sets. I talked about this with Roland earlier with the AI executive order. This information is learned from pre-existing data sets. So what can happen? We can have a group

of people have information generated for them and they do not contest it. Because we know people take things at face value. So a journalist right now will not even have to write an article and they can sway people to vote left, right, down the middle, whatever their political affiliation is. But in the field of journalism, I've talked to journalists and told them, your field is going to be greatly impacted by artificial intelligence. You must retrain. You must learn how artificial intelligence works. Use your communication skill set to keep yourself employable because artificial intelligence is

here. It's not going anywhere. It is going to get more sophisticated. And the key word is, it's going to get cheaper to use. So many companies are going to implement it more. So, Patrick, I'm going to turn this over to the panel right now. Lauren, who is a journalist, I am sure that you are feeling this encroachment, are you not? Not yet, but I think certainly the technology threatens the entire franchise in terms of any time you have a technology that can duplicate the content that you're producing, which it hasn't gotten to that point yet. But the strategy to get even more granular about what you're writing in a way that would be very hard for any machine to duplicate has become sort of the new strategy for a lot of hyper-localized news organizations and platforms.

The thing I think about is that I've never seen big tech lose a case yet. I have not seen them lose a big case yet. And one of the big issues that has been out there for years, it's never been fixed yet. Canada fixed it, but we haven't fixed it, is platforms like Facebook using other people's content to make money and sell ads against when they're not producing the content. That's been going on for years. Nobody's stopping that. And that train is going down the track.

But I do think that it's going to be interesting to see how The New York Times are going to argue how that their uniquely valuable works created by them is not, in fact, a new work created by a machine that is very clever creating a separate thing. Though they're arguing it's based on their work, one could argue that about almost anything in journalism that is a rewrite. That's right. I mean, Associated Press does rewrites all day long. Journalists do rewrites all day long.

There's very little original reporting generated by a reporter. It's usually a rewrite of somebody else's work. So I'm not sure why that wouldn't be a copyright infringement. They've taught, Microsoft has taught a machine how to do it. That's what we're talking about right now. And so I think it threatens the entire franchise if you're the New York Times. But if you're a small news organization that's found a niche that is extremely difficult to copy, that's how you would evade this type of issue. I do want to say that Facebook has settled a few lawsuits that have amounted to very little money

individually in terms of using your information for advertisement, but that still does continue in many different ways that has not appeared in the past. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute season one, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

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It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive.

But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at TaylorPaperCeiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Dr. Carr, comments or questions for Patrick?

Thank you, Candace, and thank you, Brother Dix. I mean, I have so many questions that I, listen, I, as a professor, understand that my chosen profession is getting ready to go the way of the dinosaur. I just finished grading papers a couple of weeks ago, and you know the open, you know the chat GPT papers. They're well written. If they spend some time, and they have, they don't reflect at all. Then the students I'm thinking about, no, you didn't write this because I see. So either I'm going to have to resort. You've got to write this paper in front of me, out your hand on some paper and give it to me. I was a kid. Or you can just acknowledge that

along with journalism, along with entertainment, along with screenwriters, script writers, intellectual workers are about to go the way of the dinosaur. With that in mind, and I know this, help me with this, like I said, this is a question, the Sam Altman business at OpenAI, is it something called open general intelligence? In other words, a computer solves a problem that isn't based on data that was put in it and it scared the hell out of the people. And they say, wait a minute, it's now thinking independent of the data we put in it, which is what that Altman business was about.

Because Altman is like, we can make all the money in the world. My question is this. My question is this. What is the New York Times interest in this beyond the kind of financial interest? Because I'm assuming that at some point they're going to replace most, if not all, of their workforce with intelligence. And how are the interests of the people who actually do the writing, like a Lauren Victoria Burke, come? Because I'm not assuming the New York Times interest is the same as the interest of the people who write for the New York Times. Well, their interest could be, as we all know, revolves around money. The New York Times could create their own software and license it to the other newspapers, or they can buy out other

newspaper companies and say, hey, we have our own software. We'll license it to you. We'll patent it. And you can have the software to do your own news articles. The other thing is you can have people like myself, the four of us just sit around and say, hey, we have this software. Let's go to the New York Times. Let's go to the Miami Herald. I'm in South Carolina. Let's go to the state paper and let's go to the Chicago Tribune. We can get information from all four of those sources and create our own little news station, not brick and mortar. It's all online and create newsletters with that piece of software. And as long as we know how to be in the gray area, we can never be sued.

And we could generate readers to come to our website and say, Hey, you're tired of having other folks put their opinion in the news. Listen to our news week. I'm not on this week. Listen to our news articles, read what we have on our website. This is straight news. no ads, no nothing.

And at the end of the day, as I always say, it's about money. And that's why the New York Times has a vested interest in it, because they're seeing the potential of how what they're doing right now. They say, hey, this case could lead to something else to make us more money, because as you were saying, they're going to get rid of all of their people. Why not have the software licensed to other big-time newspapers? Then we're going to talk about sports writers. I mean, we're talking about everything. You know, it's already going to encapsulate several repetitive jobs. So if you can have people generate an article, perfect example before I finish, you all were just talking about with

Trump in Maine, artificial intelligence could have wrote an article in about four or five nanoseconds. Sure. Just the time it came out versus a journalist having to verify the information is correct. And as we all know, people, once they see something at face value, they take it with it and run with it. Dr. Carr, you can appreciate this. I know that a lot of universities, they get so many complaints and cases of students who are using AI and you can do a search. And as you know, you can tell when a student, a C student is all of a sudden writing like the New York Times. That's a first giveaway. But some of these schools are saying we have so many cases, we can't do anything with them. We're a school that needs to run the school. And if we spend our time on all of these cases,

it's going to slow down what we are even here to do. Now, Dr. Black, Dr. Daniel Black, down at Clark University, spoke to him a few weeks ago, and he said what you just said, Dr. Carr. He has his students right in front of him, longhand, with a pen, to make sure that that work is theirs. I said, well, that's a solution. That is a solution. I mean, it is. And you know, I've known Dan for 30 years. We laugh about that because that is a solution. But here's the thing, Candace, and help

me because, you know, I don't know if you've seen anything in the courts on this because it doesn't seem like there's nothing out there. I don't know how they're going to rule on this. But you're raising, we're on the verge of a restructuring of all these institutions. And, you know, Brother Dix, when you put it that way, you know, like you said, they're fighting over how they're going to be able to make money in this intellectual property. I don't know, Candace, how do you think the courts are going to sort this out? Because even at a point where, and you're talking about universities, they're not just talking about students. First of all, the plagiarism software can't catch it. Right. So you get that.

The universities are now telling the faculty people, faculty members, in order to be productive and do your research, you need to lean into this. So I guess what I'm asking is how the court's going to sort this out when there's absolutely no precedent for this. So it isn't just, so I guess what I'm, what I'm asking is how the court's going to sort this out when there's absolutely no precedent for this. I mean, you haven't even thought, I'm asking you, what do you think? Well, you know, I think what Lauren said is right. And that is this. Journalists do rewrite rights all the time. I mean, some, some outlets you are expected and it's okay to use their copy verbatim. And how many ways can you say, you know, Trump got kicked off the ballot in Wisconsin or whatever? So, you know, that's one thing.

But on the other hand, when you're talking about chat GPT, but for the fact that you have original information to take from, you're not going to get any automated response. So they are they, meaning open AI or me, the user, who knows that I'm using someone else's intellectual property. I am taking it from someone else. That's just the truth. If I am a user and New York Times article comes out

and it's three sentences that are the exact same, which happens, that is an intellectual property infringement. That is just the bottom line. But the precedent that it will set, if the courts decide in favor and go against AI, it's just going to make things explosive. And I would say my final answer is that they're going to lean on the side of technology so as not to upset the, you know, the apple tree. Patrick, what do you think? What do you think ultimately when it gets into the hands of the courts? What would the outcome be? And we'll end it there. I think the courts, as we were saying earlier, are going to rule in favor of the companies because you cannot do anything with technology.

And as we know, a lot of these companies are in the back pockets of a lot of politicians. So who would you go with? You're going to go with who can make things easier and who can come up with the money. It all boils down to money. And people rarely go against Microsoft, OpenAI, Google, and those companies, because if those companies cut you off, you cannot do anything. Technology is just going to get more, excuse me, technology is going to magnify even more in 2024 and here and beyond. And I tell folks, just be prepared. We haven't seen anything yet. So just get prepared. That's the best thing I tell everyone. Absolutely. And here's a final note before we move on to a break. United States wants to compete with other countries, right? So there is no way that we are going to put ourselves behind other countries

and not advance ourselves in the world of AI. We are not going to stop that ship from floating. All right. You are. First of all, I want to thank you for being with us today, Patrick. All your information and shedding light on this whole AI New York Times lawsuit. Good to see you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Absolutely. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. We'll be right back. Grow your business or career with Grow with Google's wide range of online courses, digital training and tools. Gain in-demand job skills with flexible online

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All professional career certificate programs must be completed by December 31, 2024. Scan the QR code to complete the application. There are 1,000 scholarships available. Grow with Google and J-Hood and Associates. Be job ready and qualify for in-demand jobs. I'm Dee Barnes, and next on The Frequency, we're talking about the rise in great Black literature and the authors who are writing it. Joining me will be professor and author Donna Hill, discuss her writing journey and becoming a best-selling author. I always was writing, but I never

saw anybody that looked like me in the books that I was reading. Plus, her work with the Center for Black Literature and next year's National Black Writers Conference. That's right here on The Frequency on the Black Star Network. Me, Sherri Shebra, and you know what you're watching, Roland Martin unfiltered. All right, it is a clever way to introduce kids to the law.

The Judge Kim and the Kids Courtbook series is described as an innovative and highly entertaining series that teaches kids problem-solving skills and how to think outside of the box. Well, Sean Martin-Brow is one of the co-authors of this series, and he joins us to explain why this kind of book is essential for our youth. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. First of all, what a nice concept. And I say that. I went to law school, didn't have this growing up, but it would have been nice. You know, this doggy defendant,

right, is the subtitle of this. Judge Kim and the kids Court, some really cute ways to teach young people about the law. There's a whole series of books, but we're focusing on this one now. How did you come to this? Well, I've been working in the comic book industry for over 20 years. And so I'm a natural born storyteller. And also I'm a huge law television show. So LA Law, Law & Order, The Practice, all those shows, I just grew up just inhaling those. And so I had a friend who was a lawyer. And I used to always say to her, listen, you know, I heard that if the cops stop you, this is what you should do. And if this happens, this is what you should do. And then she was like, that's not at all what you should be doing.

You have no idea about the law from watching lawyer shows. So that got me thinking that your average person probably does not know about the law. And if you think about it, lawyers run this world. They run, they're our presidents, our senators, our congressmen and women. And so I thought about, okay, well, since I spent so much time drawing stories for Marvel and DC Comics featuring characters like Batman, Black Panther, I could apply the storytelling skills to come up with something that could teach our kids about the law in a fun way. And so I reached out to some buddies of mine from the comic book industry and I said,

hey guys, what do you think about this idea about a little black girl judge? And Judge Kim in the kids court was born. Yeah. So Judge Kim, tell me a little bit about her because she is deciding the law from her treehouse and she is making it plain. What what does she do and what did you want her function to be in this book? Well, Judge Kim is a fun character because basically she's your average little girl in the neighborhood. And one day she goes to work with her mom, who's a judge. And she goes and she while she's at her mom's job, she watches how her mom, you know, adjudicates cases, listens to evidence and decides, you know, who might be guilty, who might be innocent. And so Kim was like, that's interesting. And when she goes back home to the neighborhood and the kids have a beef, she's like, wait, wait, wait, don't fight. Let's take this up

to my treehouse. Let me know, present the evidence to me and I'll figure this out. And so that's pretty much who Kim is. She basically is your average kid who paid attention to what her parents were doing as a career and applied that to problem solving. So you have a series of books here. What number am I looking at here? Is this number seven? No, no, we have two. So which one are you holding up?

Let's see, I have the Doggy Defendant. Oh, I have several copies of the Doggy Defendant. Yes, I have the Doggy Defendant. Yeah, so Doggy Defendant is the second book. The first book is actually The Case of the Missing Defendant. Yeah. So Doggie Defendant is the second book. The first book is actually the case of the missing bicycles. So this is pretty much the setup. And then part two is what you're holding up right there. So what do you want young people to get from this or what, what is the expectation that you hope they get from it? Well, I think about when I was growing

up, we had those old schoolhouse rock. I know that's kind of dating me, but I still remember how a law becomes a bill or a bill becomes a law just from that. Yes. So what I want, and my co-writers, and I got to give a shout out to Milo Stone, Joseph Illich, and our amazing illustrator,

Christopher Jordan, what we want is for kids to, number one, read and learn about problem solving and developing critical thinking skills and learning about the law. And this is something they could do with their parents. And I tell you, like the response that we've gotten just from parents that are like, my daughter or my son loves this book and they can't put it down, and we actually have a good time reading it with them, that's amazing. That's pretty much what we want.

And what's the age range? When would you recommend that this book be read? Six to ten. Six to ten. But you know what? Six to ten, but I've heard, you know, people older and parents saying that they love it. Yeah, right.

If you can learn, learn, no matter who it's written for, right? I think it's interesting that you delve into a lot of worlds that people don't find an easy entree into. The law and writing and comic books. I'm interested in finding out how you got into the world of comic books and doing things like this in terms of graphic design and illustration. Well, I'm a native New Yorker, so I grew up in the Bronx, and I was a huge comic book fan when I was in elementary school. And I just started copying what I would see in the comic books.

And then one day when I came home from school, my mom and my dad saw that I had some kind of a talent. And so they said, OK, listen, let's do something with him. And they put me in a local painting class. And it was in the community center. It wasn't anything big and fancy. But once or twice a week, I would go and learn to paint. And then from there, I went to Performing Arts High School, Fiorello LaGuardia, the famed school in New York. And I was an art major. And then I went to the School of Visual Arts and got my degree. And while I was in the School of Visual Arts studying illustration, I submitted my

portfolio to Marvel, and then Marvel Comics gave me my first job when I was a junior in college. And so from there, once you start doing work for Marvel, then DC wants to hire you. That's right. Yeah. You have gone through so many doors that so many people of all ages want to go through. I want to open up the floor to our panel here, Dr. Carr and Lauren. Dr. Carr, I'll start with you. I saw you shaking your head. I'm not sure why, but I'm sure that you have a question for our guest. Yeah, I do. And it's a real treat. Thank you, Candace. And Sean, it's nice to meet you, brother. When I came home with my first comic book, it was an Archie comic

book. My daddy said, is that what you want? I said, well, I don't know. I took it back around the corner to the black owned drug store in Nashville, Mr. Neely's drug store. I said, can I switch this? And he said, yeah, just don't bother me. And the book I switched it for was right in the middle of the Avengers Defenders War over the evil eye. So you can imagine it. So from then I was hooked. I was about nine years old. My question then, in addition to the fact that that judge looks a lot like Gracie from Gracie's Corner, I hope they know, we're talking about intellectual property, but anyway, I'm like, wait a minute, is this awful? My question is, is there an age that is too young for young people to read the kind of work? I'm not saying

they would necessarily read Luke Cage's noir or Angel Town, which I loved by the way, years ago you were involved with, but is there an age that's too young for young people to be reading the kind of Marvel comics that we were reading when we were nine and 10 years old with all those adult themes? You know, that's what,

the Mandarin called Iron Man a cretin, I had to go look it up. But I'm saying we learn from the books that you write for adults. Is there an age, is a child ever too young not to read those books in addition to the ones that you're doing now? Well, the great thing about comics

is that there's so many different types of comics. So for me, there's never an early, there's never an age that's too young for kids to start reading, first and foremost. And our kids need to read. And that's one of the things I think about comic books, because comic books are in American art form. But I think a lot of people look down on them as being simple or just for kids. But my vocabulary increased from reading. There are words that I remember reading when I was in junior high school that I'm like, I still remember. I still remember now. And just increasing your vocabulary and just sort of seeing different perspectives. And a lot of the books that you and I read growing up,

there were messages in there that probably went over our head, but then they stuck. And that's the great thing about storytelling is that sometimes you might not get it right away. You might just enjoy the fighting, the super super heroics or whatever but then that message is there you know and that's the great thing that's the beauty about storytelling so for me i encourage kids to read you know from a very early age and marvel and dc comics you can read those you know from a very early age yeah and the comic books they do have the concepts of the truth and justice and evil and good. That certainly, even if you don't remember the words, that sticks with you. Lauren, I wanted to bring you in here. Question.

Do you think that your books help with conflict resolution? Because we're kind of in an era where young people are spending a lot of time in a sort of passive-aggressive communication when it comes to social media, particularly Twitter and Facebook. So you find, I mean, I found a little bit where there's kind of a trend to not want to engage in debate and arguing. It's sort of a, Greg would know better than I, but I have encountered amongst our Gen Z friends that they don't do conflict too well. They don't do debate and argument too well, sort of a my way or the highway way type of thing.

So I'm wondering, was part of your motivation for your books to sort of help young people with conflict resolution and the types of things that go on in the courtroom where you have evidentiary process and people presenting their cases and stuff like that? Well, okay, I think that's a great question. I think that, if anything, I think that kids today are more impulsive. I think that, you know, social media just allows you to pop off with a question or a comment or, you know, like a diss, just like that. And so I think one of the things about Judge Kim is really getting kids to slow down and be more thoughtful.

You know, a lot of times, listen, sometimes you might see something that really offends you and you might be like, wait, what? But then it's better to kind of take a breath, slow down. And sometimes that pause can save you a world of hurt. And so I think with these books, we really want kids to kind of slow down, listen to all sides and make a reasoned decision, a reasoned choice, and really figuring things out based on evidence and based on facts. And I think that's really the beauty of these books, you know, if I do say so myself, which is just to get kids to really slow down and think before you act. Think before you jump to a conclusion. Because sometimes, you know, when you see things, when you see something in like a span of five seconds,

you know, you're probably not going to have all of the information about that to make a really informed comment or decision. So we just really want kids and their parents and adults to sort of slow down and listen more and then make a more thoughtful choice in life. Sean Martin, bro, how do we get the book? They're available at all bookstores. I mean, Judge Kim is put out from Simon & Schuster, so they're available through Simon & Schuster, Amazon,

and in bookstores, you know, everywhere. All right. Sean, thank you so much for being with us. What an interesting career. Learned quite a bit. Nice to have you. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. All right. Roland Martin Unfiltered. We'll be right back right here on the Blackstar Network. Don't you think it's time to get wealthy? I'm Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach, and my new show on the Black Star Network focuses on the things your financial advisor

or bank isn't telling you. So watch Get Wealthy on the Black Star Network. I'm Faraj Muhammad, live from L.A. And this is The Culture. The Culture is a two-way conversation. You and me, we talk about the stories, politics, the good, the bad, and the downright ugly.

So join our community every day at 3 p.m. Eastern and let your voice be heard. Hey, we're all in this together. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good

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In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

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I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes, rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tetherpaperceiling.org,

brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Hey, it's John Murray, the executive producer of the new Sherry Shepard Talk Show. You're watching Rolling Mark. Until then. All right, some good news for the color purple. The film had the largest Christmas Day movie opening in 14 years. The drama is an adaptation of the 2005 Broadway musical inspired by Alice Walker's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel and Steven Spielberg's 1985 film.

The movie exceeded expectations, earning $18.5 million from 3,152 theaters across North America, well above the 10 to 12 million anticipated. The impressive turnout means The Color Purple is the biggest December 25th debut since 2009, when Sherlock Holmes pocketed $24.6 million. The film is also the most successful musical film

to open on Christmas Day, beating Les Miserables in 2012. You know what? Are we surprised, Dr. Carr? I'm not sure if we are. I think that you can speak to so many people in the black community who can quote three lines from The Color Purple. I think people

were ready for this for the big screen. Well, you know, I'm of mixed opinion on The Color Purple. I mean, having read the book many times and remembering it, as I'm sure we all do when the first movie came out, I understand Steven Spielberg's obsession with it and Oprah's. But there are so many more stories for us to tell. And this whole experience of black folk being surprised at the LBGTQ, the queer scenes in it. I guess they hadn't read the book or missed the movie Kiss on the Cheek.

But and how it's generational, how this age. But I'll tell you, on Christmas Day, I went to see American fiction. Yeah, absolutely. went to see American fiction. Because I read absolutely, and I read D.C.'s own, and I read many years ago, Percival Everett's book, Erasure, which is laugh out loud hilarious. And going into the theater, all these black folk were going in

to see the color purple. They had on church clothes, they had on African clothes, mostly women, but men too. And I was like, wow, I go into the American fiction and I could count the black people on one hand. Big audience, almost all white. To me, that says something about how our taste

has been curated over the years. I'm not surprised by those numbers. It's a great thing. But the whole theme of American fiction is how we are crafted to want certain narratives by a society that don't give a damn about us. And I'm all of, anyway, I shouldn't even happy about the numbers and I'll see eventually, but I think there are a lot of other things that this should probably trigger us into

a conversation about that we're not going to have. And listen, Jeffrey Wright, he's my favorite. So that's why I know exactly what you were talking about. I need to get to it. I am looking for that Oscar. That's a whole nother story. But yes, I think that that is a, it is just a well-crafted way for us to see how we are set up in the media. As you said, our appetite is kind of cued for certain things.

Lauren, your take on it, Granted, the numbers are big, but you know, like Dr. Carr said, there are mixed emotions. Where do you stand? I'm really tired of the color purple. I think we were fine with one color purple. I'm not sure why we're back with another color purple. I do not like movies that have negative depictions

of black males in a society where we've had that have negative depictions of black males in a society where we've had too many negative depictions of black males. I think it's destructive, and I think that we were fine with the first one and that being the only one. And to Greg's point, there are so many stories in black American history that have not been told, particularly civil rights movement, just that piece of history alone. But I also think about the Civil War period as well. We did do the Massachusetts 54, but we really actually didn't, because, of course, that was told through the eyes of a white General Wagner.

And I'm a history major, and I'm well aware of a lot of the stories that haven't been told. Hidden Figures was really a moment where you realize all the stories that haven't been told. And I'm just... Nothing against anybody,

but I am tired of the color purple. Mm-hmm. You know, it obviously is speaking to a lot of people, Dr. Carr. When I speak to women especially, it resonates with them. There are shared kind of histories and moments, things that are on the table that people want to talk about. But are you in the camp of Lauren in that, okay, it was good and had a message, but it's just too much. And there's so much more that we could be focusing on. Yeah, well, we all love black people. Let me start with that.

And let me say, I'm glad you said it, Lauren. I wrote my senior undergraduate thesis and used The Color Purple as one of the novels that I talked about in terms of protest fiction. I think the book is deeply flawed. I think the movie, the first movie, was absolutely a white vehicle that they used to do exactly what Lawrence said. I think the musical, which I did not see, but when I see this movie and from what I'm reading about it and the clips I've seen, it does exactly what Lawrence said. And, you know, when the movie came out,

Ishmael Reed was very critical and moved for the exact same reason. He said, this ain't even about black people. This is about what you think black people are about. And I think it resonates with us because we don't get to those deeper issues. This is a real conversation we need to have. We can't have it. We behave in many ways like a race of children.

You know, Adolph Caesar, Danny Glover, the ensemble cast of the original movie, I think there was some nuance there. When I look at Colman Domingo, for example, who was a fine actor, but I watched—what's the Obama vehicle, the Obama-produced vehicle on Netflix? Rustin. Oh, Rustin. Rustin.

Rustin. Oh, Rustin. Trash. It was a caricatured, overly hyped, too much music, too much over-the-top portrayal of Bayard Rustin. It was much more nuanced than that. If you watch the Jeffrey Wright vehicle, I'm sure you've seen it.

Both of y'all have Boycott, where Jeffrey Wright plays Martin Luther King and Carmen DiGiogo plays Coretta Scott King. In fact, they fell in love on that set to hear them both tell it. That's where they met. But the portrayal of Bayard Rustin in there by Eric Dellums, who is Ron Dellum's son, was much more layered. I think we have been fed a diet of spectacle. Even in the glimpse we saw there, you got Negroes out there in chain gang uniforms breaking bricks to the music.

I don't want to see any more minstrelsy. And the color purple can now be retired. Now, I agree there are so many other stories, but I pray Hollywood never gets its hand on Blake or the Huts of America. They messed up Harriet Tubman once. Please don't touch Frederick Douglass. I hope they don't.

In other words, because they have an image of us that is not about our community. We have real issues we need to grapple with, and they don't come to the surface when Alice Walker, and this isn't a critique of Alice Walker. Everybody gets to tell their story. But why do you keep picking the same story? You don't tell us.

I mean, I would rather go see, watch Cicely Tyson and Paul Winfield again in Sounder than watch this ever. But I'll go see it because, you know, what the hell? I can't really talk about it until I see it. But I'm going to see. That's right. That's right. And I have not seen it about it until I see it, but I imagine I'm going to see. That's right, that's right. And I have not seen

it. I have not seen it. And I thought that the Color Purple, the movie, I thought, loved the book. I thought that the movie was beautiful, just visual. I think the one thing that kind of stuck with me is that even after all those years,

I only saw that one person when I looked at Danny Glover. And that was really unfortunate because that hasn't happened in many other movies that it had such an impression that I couldn't get him away from that character. And I've heard that from a lot of movies that that depict black people. I'm into the heroic sort of movie, I guess. You know, I guess you'd have to say, I mean, there's a Bass Reeves movie out. I haven't seen it yet. There's Bob Marley. I haven't seen that one yet. But as far as black women, as we know, there's so few depictions of heroic black women in

American history. And there's plenty of examples. The Harriet Tubman movie was messed up by a ridiculous character. Basically the villain of that movie was a black male, which made no sense. It was insane. But, you know, it's because the people who produce these movies have no interest in accurately depicting what black Americans have done in this country. We see it on a smaller level in journalism all the time and on a grander level in Hollywood.

So I'm always dubious of anything produced by someone that doesn't look like me, that doesn't really care about my history. That right there is a suspicious marker. And I get that Oprah's involved and all that, but I'm telling you, I am not – I feel like we have not touched 3 percent of the history and historic characters in the black community that could be represented in Hollywood in a positive light. And if you look at the history of Hollywood, of course, nobody should be surprised at that. So this to me is a throwback a little bit to that history, which is ironic. I don't think any of the creators of this would ever think that. But I just, I'm just, I've sort of I'm not I'm not really in any way interested in seeing that story again. And there's like I said, there's so many other stories out there to be told and ways.

I mean, Red Tails was a good example of how we are very rarely depicted. Black people very rarely depicted as heroes. And of course, he had to finance that himself because Hollywood didn't want to do that film because it depicted black people as heroes. And of course he had to finance that himself because Hollywood didn't want to do that film because it depicted black people as heroes, you know? So I'm just not, I'm okay with seeing the color purple from an eight from the eighties and I don't need to see anything again. I'm not convinced I need to say, see anything again. I'm going to flip the script a little bit here. And I think that the numbers do tell us many, many things. One of those things is that we do go to the movies. There were, remember years ago when they said,

don't even make black movies because black folks don't go. Black folks don't go to Broadway. Black folks don't go to plays. Black folks don't go to the movies. Don't put the black person on the poster in America. Certainly not in Asia. That's going to offend the population. But and I think that with these numbers, it does at least tell that story, Dr. Carr.

Well, I mean, if nothing else, we're a race of consumers in the United States. They've known that for a long time. When when Melvin Van Peebles made Sweet Sweetback and had to rent out theaters and they kept selling out, they realized that. And that, of course, set off a boom that they night to call black exploitation but it came from independent black filmmaking uh you know the conflicts and the in the conflict resolution mechanisms we have in our communities have been portrayed in film uh julie dash i mean you know if you want to go see the the layers of black community conflict and resolution, go see Daughters of the Dust. I mean, it's great independent film. But it's not—but see, they're not—like, honestly, they're not going to fund that,

because that's speaking to us about us, and it's not looking away from our challenges. Danny Glover, I'm glad you raised that, Candace. There's an excellent film by one of Julie Dash's classmates and Holly Greenman, and they call it the L.A. Rebellion out there at UCLA, named Charles Burdette, a fantastic movie called To Sleep With Anger, where all these Negroes from Louisiana move to LA and there's this conflict, it's generational, it's women and men, but they resolve it and it's grounded in the culture. They are never going to make that.

I don't ever have to see another Tyler Perry movie again because I'm sick of the minstrel show. Tyler Perry is an embarrassment in so many ways, even as he continues to make money and support black people and, you know, not necessarily let the writers be unionized. But when Taraji Henson raises the issues that she raised connected with this vehicle, and then people remember Monique, then people have to understand that my classmate Oprah, and I say that because she came back and finished her degree in 1987 at Tennessee State, and I was graduating class.

I was student body president. And what I said about Oprah that day as a student body president, they banned student body presidents from talking at Tennessee state graduations for like 10 years. Because I'm saying, you know, look, look, look. Thanks to you. In the words of Sean Carter, I'm a hustler, baby. And I want you to know, it's not where I've been, it's where I'm about to go. I don't have to see anything.

You know what people think of us by who they pick to curate and tell our stories. Lauren, thank you for freeing me to say what was really on my back. Lauren, you opened that door. I mean, he has that Tyler Perry, which I will not even get on. I was in Atlanta, did go by, and I saw his beautiful studio.

I will say that. And the documentary is compelling. I will say that. That's all I will say on Amazon. It's quite a story. Did you watch it? Absolutely. He curated it himself. And so I watched him tell the story that needed to be told. I'm not going to let y'all critique me. I'm going to celebrate me and make it look like I'm critiquing me on the way to the celebration. So that y'all can't say I wasn't critical of myself. Even anyway, we just saw the man on comic books. These narratives are very, very, very

straightforward. Lauren, I'm blaming you. Open that door. He walked in. I really appreciate it. Lauren, you open it. Lauren, I want to end on you. Let me know, what are you watching these days before we wrap up this show? What are you watching that has filled you?

You know, I tend to do work on the computer and just have a movie in the background that I may or may not be paying any attention to. The last movie that I did watch was Maestro, which is about Leonard Bernstein. Sure. Bradley Cooper. Very well acted. I did think the storyline, the way he put the story together needed some improvement, but I like music a lot. So anything about music, I tend to watch. As I said, there is a Bob Marley movie coming that I'm looking forward to. I hope that's not messed up because to me, Bob Marley is one of the most important figures in music in the last 50 years. And, you know, I just can't. And when I think about Color Purple,

I just think about all the people who have not been covered. You know, Chuck Berry, who's really the father of rock and roll. And you can just go on and on. And so I watch a few things typically on Netflix, but I'm not a big TV watcher. Okay.

Just in general. Yeah, yeah. Listen, people are always writing me for something to to watch. So thank you for that input. And thank you for the input. Both of you, Dr. Carr and Lauren, for being with us today, especially during this holiday season. Thank you. Absolutely. Listen, before we leave, I do have an announcement about a podcast that I am a part of. I want you to join me in February for an eye-opening journey on a new podcast called Not All Hood, hosted by a dynamic trio. It's Malcolm Jamal Warner, the way you see Baraka, and it's me. We're jumping into some rich black experiences in America, from exploring black masculinity to unraveling threads of love and media

presentation, we're going to bring you conversations that matter, pop culture, music, headlining news, and this podcast really gets into the celebrations and the triumphs of Black America. And Malcolm Jamal Warner, he opens up, which he doesn't do quite a bit, but you can follow us on Instagram at

na underscore notallhood, on TikTok at na dot notallhood, on TikTok at nah.notallhoodpodcast, and on X at notallhood for exclusive content and updates. It's coming this February. So fun to be with this group. We're down there in Atlanta in this video. Had a good time. Notallhood coming in February.

All right. It is time to say goodbye, but not for good. I will be here tomorrow because Roland will still be on vacation. Once again, thanks to my amazing guests and stimulating conversation. It was a good time, and we're going to have another good time

tomorrow night. See you then. Get the paper. Folks, Blackstar Network is get the baby America rolling. I love y'all. All momentum we have now. We have to keep this going. The video looks phenomenal. See, there's a difference between Black Star Network and Black-owned media and something like CNN. You can't be Black-owned media and be scary. It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home.

You dig? I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling, the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree.

It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott.

And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.