#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Ginni Thomas to Testify for Jan. 6 Committee, Miss. Welfare Fraud Plea, Women's March Movement

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

9.22.2022 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Ginni Thomas to Testify for Jan. 6 Committee, Miss. Welfare Fraud Plea, Women's March Movement Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, will testify before the House January 6 Committee.  Thomas wants to  'clear up any misconceptions about her work relating to the 2020 election.  Remember, there are text messages of her urging the overturning of the election results.  We'll break it all down.  I'll talk to the first black man to secure a major party nominee for Arkansas governor.  Chris Jones will join us tonight to discuss his campaign going head to head with Republican Sarah Huckabee Sanders.  One of the folks connected to the Mississippi welfare fraud case involving Brett Favre pleads guilty.  Could that mean he's about to tell all?   The New York Times published an article saying Russian trolls were behind the demise of the Women's Movement.  Tamika Mallory and Linda Sarsour will join us to tell us what that is all about. For the first time in 40 years, a Philadelphia police officer goes on trial for murder and gets convicted.  We'll tell you about the cop who killed an unarmed black man.  A former North Carolina Deputy Police Chief was tired of seeing deadly interaction between citizens and law enforcement.  So when she retired, she created an organization designed to give people the tools to survive when they get stopped by those who swore to protect them.  And Howard University's College of Medicine makes history with its new dean.    Support RolandMartinUnfiltered and #BlackStarNetwork via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered Venmo ☛https://venmo.com/rmunfiltered Zelle ☛ [e-mail] Annual or monthly recurring #BringTheFunk Fan Club membership via paypal ☛ https://rolandsmartin.com/rmu-paypal/ Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox 👉🏾 http://www.blackstarnetwork.com #RolandMartinUnfiltered and the #BlackStarNetwork are news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. He makes sure that our stories are told. Thank you for being the voice of Black America, Roland. Stay Black. I love y'all. All momentum we have now, we have to keep this going. The video looks phenomenal. See, there's a difference between Black Star Network and Black-owned media and something like CNN. You can't be Black-owned media and be scape. It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home. You dig?

Fam, today is Thursday, September 22nd, 2022. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. One of the Mississippi officials who was involved in the fraud, they're dealing with welfare money. Some 77 million bucks pled guilty today in federal court. But why is the media still raking Brett Favre over the coals for taking $5 million of that money as well?

We'll talk about that. Also on today's show, Chris Jones is running for governor of Arkansas against Sarah Huckabee Sanders. We'll chat with him on the show as well to see how it is going on the campaign trail there. The New York Times published an article saying Russian trolls specifically targeted leaders of the Women's March,

specifically Linda Sarsour. Folks, we'll talk with Tamika Mallory and Linda Sarsour. And folks, reveal for you really the first time the hell that they have endured over the last three to four years as a result of the attacks on their character by these Russian trolls. It's a conversation, trust me, you do not want to miss.

For the first time in 40 years, a Philadelphia police officer goes on trial for murder and he is convicted. We'll tell you about the cop who killed an unarmed black man. Also, a former North Carolina deputy police chief was tired of seeing deadly interaction between citizens and law enforcement,

so when she retired, she created an organization designed to give people the tools to survive when they get stopped by the cops. Mm-hmm, that's right. Don't wanna miss that conversation. Plus, Howard University's College of Medicine makes history with its new dean. First time a woman has gotten that.

And I was in L.A. last night for the Los Angeles premiere of the Apple documentary on Sidney Poitier. You'll hear from the executive producer and director, Reggie Hutland, and also Oprah Winfrey, and the daughters of Sidney Poitier as well. It is time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. down from sports to news to politics with entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling with Uncle Roro, y'all.

It's rolling, Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's rolling, he's fresh, he's real, the best you know He's rolling, Martel Martel Folks, Mississippi has one of the lowest rates in the country approving people to receive welfare. So that's why it's shocking that you would have an official Mississippi who is busted,

now pleads guilty in federal court for abusing welfare funds. That took place today, folks, in this growing scandal in the state. John Davis, he directed Mississippi's welfare agency while it spent millions of dollars wasting money on all sort of pet projects investigators say were improper. They included a new volleyball facility. Former NFL quarterback Brett Favre requested that would benefit his daughter at the college she attended. Davis agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud and theft. He's facing up to 15 years in prison.

Now, there's been some coverage of this whole issue here with Favre, but here's the real question. Why his ass not in jail? Why hasn't he been indicted? What is going on there in Mississippi? This is the blackest state in the union, the brokest state

in the union, and yet they are literally wasting and stealing welfare funds. Now, don't y'all think, you know, we can go back to Ronald Reagan and how he would hold up the welfare queen. All Republicans are real good at castigating folks who take $300 or $400 or $500 or whatever. Remember them complaining about old welfare folks buying crab legs and lobster with their wick money? $77 million we're talking about right here.

Now, this guy, again, faces up to 15 years in prison, but it's amazing how silent many of them are. Let's talk about this with our panel. Joining us, of course, every Thursday, Greg Karch, Department of Afro-American Studies at Howard University. Greg, glad to have you on the show. Recy Colbert, Black Women Views. Glad, thanks a bunch. Dr. Nola Haynes, of course, foreign policy, foreign policy expert, national security expert. And she can also talk about HBCU dance teams versus PWIs. Glad to have all three of y'all on the show. Here's the thing that trips me out, Greg, whenever, again, whenever these issues come up. Republicans are so good at fraud and waste and things along those lines.

Here you have these Republicans down there in Mississippi, wasting money, money that could have gone to Mississippi Valley State, money that could have gone to any number of HBCUs, money that could have gone to a lot of those majority black cities. But no, they won't do that. Let's just give this rich white guy, Brett Favre, $5 million for his daughter's school for a volleyball court, money that's supposed to be meant for the poorest of the poor. And let's also be, people don't understand,

Mississippi, for every $1 that Mississippi pays in taxes, they get $4 back. So when we talk about Mississippi abusing federal welfare money, that's money from us, taxpayers. Absolutely. And it's money that will ultimately someday, maybe someday soon, be returned in some way to some citizens in Mississippi

who needed more. We heard Shannon Sharp give hell to Brett Favre and say that if this were a white, a black athlete, you know what would have happened. But this happened because Mississippi is the blackest state and it's the closed society. These criminals operate with impunity. Now, perhaps, and as you said, this story is unfolding. John Davis, free on bond, apparently made a deal to plead to these counts and to cooperate. So the gunslinger from Green Bay may still see his ass in jail. Our day will come.

I have no doubt that this is far from over. The thing here, Recy, is that the people who need the most, again, Mississippi is the broken state in the union. And these cats are sitting here just rejecting people left and right because they're playing with the money and giving to rich folks. Why not? Who's going to check them? I mean, this is just nothing but a slush fund and a piggy bank for these crooks in Mississippi. And the reason why it's gone on for as long as it has with impunity is because people don't give a damn about poor people. People don't give a damn about the working poor. They don't give a damn about people in poverty and mostly black people, because it has such a high black population, even though there are a lot of

Polites in Mississippi as well. So, I mean, you know, as long as they do the crime and they do it big enough because, you know, the DOJ has all the smoke in the world for a 401k for Marilyn Mosby or a five-figure thing going on with Andrew Gillum or with the guy who was up in New York. But when it comes to the white folks, it seems like the bigger the crime, the less the time, the less that they're even going after it. So it's good that this one person has finally, you know, pled guilty, is facing 15 years. But everybody should have been perp walked by now, including the former governor, Bill Bryant. And that right there, Nola, is an important point. And that is you've had folks there just getting away with this and, you know, and folks kind

of like, ah, you know, it's no big deal. We're talking about federal funds. And when we see a black politician all of a sudden, when they say, oh, God, you know, took a bribe or something and they got Super Bowl tickets or a trip paid for. I mean, it's all kind of coverage. I mean, we're talking about damn near $100 million here. Right. So, you know, to your earlier point about the population in Mississippi,

the state next to my home state in Louisiana, I'll start by saying I'm angry. And then my second point is, you know, representation does not equal power. And oftentimes, we have in Southern states where you have majority black bodies, but we do not have the power. You know, as New Orleans is actually going through a recall process right now, we're at our own mayor. You know, representation doesn't always equal power. And in this situation in Mississippi, we're seeing more of the same.

We are seeing people who have been historically oppressed and disenfranchised. You add all the things, Mississippi can definitely check all the boxes. And here you have another situation where, you know, this isn't the first time that rich people have stolen from poor people and then put the blame on poor people. But in this instance, there are text messages. I saw the text messages, and it was very clear. There is no blurred lines here. This was intentional. Brett Favre was concerned about being caught and where the money came from. So just that fact alone tells me that something will be done. And oftentimes, yes, justice does take a long time, especially when you do not have melanin in your skin and especially when you're talking about a football institution, an icon like Brett Favre,

because taking him down, you know, it's not just the fact that he's a rich white man. He's Brett Favre. You know, he's the institution of football, American football as we know it. So a lot of spirits and souls are crushed. Oh, well, I'm sorry. You know, that that that's how it goes. And this is how it's been going on in America. And frankly, I'm just happy that there are receipts because, you know, this isn't the first time and it probably will not be the last time.

And, you know, like I said, representation does not equal power. But in this instance, there are receipts. Indeed. And so, you know, we'll see where this goes next. But the bottom line, folks, is just understand when you see a story involving a black mayor, some one of those lines, again, juxtapose that coverage compared to the silence from a whole bunch of folks when it comes to this case right here. Going to a break, we come back folks. We're gonna talk about that Tish James again,

jamming up Donald Trump, Lord. This fool went on Sean Hannity last night and just lied his behind off. Walls are closing in on him. But also Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA, he was forced to come out and say that the criminal investigation into Donald Trump continues. Really? Hmm.

Interesting. Can't wait to hear what my panel has to say about that. Folks, you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Download our Black Star Network app. Available on all platforms. Apple phone, Android phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV.

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I'm Mike Pearson. I'm Mike Pearson. I'm Mike Pearson. I'm Mike Pearson. I'm Mike Pearson. I'm Mike Pearson. I'm Mike Pearson. Oh, Maga World's losing their damn minds because New York State Attorney General Tish James laid out in graphic detail how Donald Trump and the Trump Organization is an absolute fraud. Complete fraud. That took place on yesterday. As a result, she talked about forwarding information, making a criminal referral to the Department of Justice. But Manhattan D.A. Alvin Bragg, who previously had scuttled an investigation into Trump,

says that the criminal investigation into him continues. Well, that is certainly good news to hear. The question is, are we going to see this take place? Last night on, if y'all really want to watch stupid TV, all you got to do is look at anything Sean Hannity does, which was an absolute joke. So he sat down with Donald Trump last night. And this fool, I keep telling y'all,

Donald Trump will lie about a lie. I mean, that's how you know you're trash when you will lie about a lie. And if you want to see how dumb this fool is, y'all, you might want to check this one out. So when it came to what's first documents down in mar-a-lago uh this fool literally said and this is one of the dumbest things trust me i think you've ever heard in your life when somebody when he says that a president you know what he wanted me to do justice me trying to paraphrase listen to this fool yourself you know there's different people say different things but as as I understand, there doesn't have to be. If you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying

it's declassified, even by thinking about it, because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago or to wherever you're sending it, and there doesn't have to be a process. There can be a process, but there doesn't have to be. You're the president of the United States.

All right. Y'all, this fool literally said, if you think it, declassify it. Nola, if you're prosecutors, you probably were laughing last night at what he had to say

because anybody with a scintilla of a brain knows that there is a process to declassify. You literally have to notify the intelligence agencies of this because there are ramifications of classified material. But, mister, I'm the smartest one in the world. I have this amazing brain. If you think it, you can do it. And they think this fool is the,

they think he is bright. Go ahead. As I am a huge believer in manifestation, I don't think that you can necessarily manifest declassification, especially when we're talking about top secrets, secret compartments and information and all the different, you know, kind of smaller categories that some of this information falls in. And for me, what's always been one of the most worrying things is about the information about our intelligence community

and defense secrets, you know, in as much as, yes, you know, it feels good to get a chuckle and a laugh out at the end of the day. Think about this type of person who had access to this information and what happened to this information. When I watched this clip last night, I think you had posted it, Roland, and I was cracking up. But then I stopped laughing at that comment about you send them to Mar-a-Lago, you know, like kind of shuffle, shuffle, shuffle, or wherever you're going to send them. What does that mean? You know, or is there more information elsewhere? Is there not an internal informant to tell DOJ, FBI where these documents may live?

But, you know, the former president always has a tendency of projecting and telling on himself. Right. So what was revealed in that that that word jumble last night. So it was concerning while entertaining. But at the end of the day, no, you cannot Jedi mind trick this away or manifest simply declassification. This is very serious. It is a crime. And for the people who say that they are for law and order, who are not standing up for law and order, shame on you.

You should put your country first. You should put democracy first and not a personality who will throw you under the bus in 2.5 seconds. And the reality here, Recy, is that these incompetent people will do anything to protect this lying scumbag. In fact, Congressman Jamie Raskin got sick and tired of it and blasted Republicans during a congressional hearing. Check this out, and I want you to respond afterwards. REP. DAVID BESSER, R-COLLEGE, SEN.

DAVID BESSER, R-COLLEGE, SEN. The minority leader, Mr. McCarthy, and after we went back and conveyed our agreement to the GOP proposal, it was vetoed by the fourth branch of government. I'm not yielding now. It was vetoed by the cult leader, Donald Trump, who said he wanted no investigation at all. That's your guy. Donald Trump, he said he wanted no investigation. And so you pulled the plug on the investigation you originally advocated because Donald Trump didn't want it.

Let's tell some truth. Would you like to? You're talking about truth. I'm giving you the truth. I'm giving you the facts about it. And then when Speaker Pelosi said, well, in that case, the House of Representatives will conduct our own investigation. Then again, you guys boycotted it because you wanted to put pro-insurrection members on the committee. And so we ended up with a bipartisan committee of people really interested in getting to

the facts. And you know what? This is what you guys can't stand. America listened to it because we had real congressional hearings, unlike what goes on here with the temper tantrums and the diatribes. And too often our side gets pulled into what you guys are doing. But we had real hearings and 25, 30 million Americans watching because we told the truth about Donald Trump's assault

on democratic institutions and the right to vote in America. And maybe you can't handle the truth, but that's the reality and nobody has laid a glove on any of the testimony that has come out during those hearings. So we hear this absurd whining about Ray Epps, who has absolutely nothing to do with any of it. And all of these conspiracy theory allegations have been debunked up and down, up and down. You think you've got something? You bring him in and talk to him or send us a letter or do something. But why don't you deal with the reality of the situation? Do you think that Donald Trump tried to get the Secretary of State of Georgia, a lifelong

Republican named Raffensperger, to just find him 11,781 votes? Is that real or is that fake? You're interested in facts? Is that real or is that fake? You think Donald Trump tried to— Are you offering to yield now or is it rhetorical? Okay, I'm just saying, I would like a serious response to our hearings because...

The time of the gentleman has expired. If you want... There's somebody recently who's probably saying, man, y'all should stop talking about Donald Trump. No, I need y'all to understand what he has unleashed. You have individuals right now. This thing has expanded. It has metastasized.

This thing is this. This cancer is now going across the entire body. And what these folks are preparing to unleash on this country in November, if they win the House, if they win the Senate, if they win secretaries of state races, if they win gubernatorial races, if you thought it was just Trump, no, you about to really see what this thing is all about, Recy. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the bottom line is that Trump is still the kingmaker in the Republican Party. His hand-selected candidates won the Senate races, or the Senate primaries and the gubernatorial primaries across the country. And these are crackpot radical Republicans that I wrote about in my book.

So there is a lot at stake. You have a situation like Doug Mastriano in Pennsylvania, who gets to select his own secretary of state, which he said may or may not abide by the election results. And so what we're facing in 2022 is Donald Trump's last stand before his election campaign. If his candidates go down, then Donald Trump does not stand a chance in 2024. But if his candidates capture the Senate seats, they capture the gubernatorial races and secretary of state races, then we are not going to have a free and fair election in 2024, point blank, period, because there will be people in here that will not abide by the process like they did in 2020, that will not adhere to the will of the people. In addition to what they're doing to suppress the vote and gerrymander the vote and all that good shit, these people want

to flat out throw out election results and install their own electors, install their own results, period. That's not hypothetical. This is what they're running on. This is why Donald Trump is so hands-on with these racists. All of his candidates have, almost all of them have won their primaries. So he is coming for it. And yes, what's happening in terms of this declassification or classification is important. What's happening with Tish James is important. But what's happening across this country with this midterms is critically important because this is going to decide what happens in 2024. This is our last chance to have some semblance of a free and fair election in 2024. And if the Democrats win, then we get the voting rights, we get the George Floyd rights and all that good stuff. But what we

cannot underestimate is how bad these Republicans will work to hold on or flat out steal the power next time. That particular point there, I mean, Greg, look, this is my book White Fear, How the Browns of America

Make White Folks Lose Their Mind. What you're seeing right now with sending the migrants to Martha's Vineyard, DeSantis rewarding his donors, that's a part of this. But also, I need to remind people of this here. This is an Axios story by

Jonathan Swan that is actually that came out on July 22, 2022. A radical plan for Trump's second term. Folks, if y'all go through this, they literally are meeting as we speak. They have been plotting and planning. They have been going through saying, what were the mistakes that we made in four years? They have plans to fire thousands of government bureaucrats in numerous departments. They literally are saying, they are vetting people who are stalwart supporters of Trump and MAGA world. And just understand what's going on.

And see, the reason, see, my problem when I saw this poll today where they say some independents don't like MAGA Republicans because they feel as if, you know, it's like, well, there are other people who are decent Republicans who are not crazy. No, here's the deal. If you are a Republican and you're riding with them, but trying to say, oh, no, no, I'm not one of them. Yes, you are because you're supporting them. And what these people have in place, they want to gut so much of the environment, civil rights laws, you name it. And so we have to keep sounding the alarm because for every one of these black people

who are sitting their asses at home, who talking about, man, I ain't voting. I had some dude talking about, oh, why should we be mobilizing to vote? There's reparations on the ballot. And I said, well, fool, who gonna give that to you? House and Senate. So I said, are you really that dumb? Because if you say that's what you want, I said, it ain't going to magically appear. And so other people are sitting here saying, well, get tangibles for your vote. They kind of got to win

in order for you to get what you want to get. And so the folk on the right, they're very clear on what they want. They're real clear. And what they're not doing, they're not having that conversation

about don't vote. They are highly enthused because they know exactly what they're trying to do, Greg. They're not having that conversation about don't vote. They are highly enthused because they know exactly what they're trying to do, Greg. They absolutely do, Roland. And I got to get down there so you can sign my copy of White Fear. And I got these hard copies of your books, Recy, because, again, you both laid it out. This is driven by white fear. And you've laid it out.

And, of course, as Recy said, you see the implications of the ballot box, and you see the implications in all of the elections and all of the primary candidates they had. And I agree with you, Dr. Haynes, this is no laughing matter. Donald Trump is the avatar. He's a clown. But he's an avatar for a much larger movement. And the movement isn't just in the United States. In Brazil, Lula da Silva will probably win that election. But Bolizarro has already said, I'm in control of the military. If Lula wins, I'll just kill him and everybody else. And Steve Bannon hasn't gone anywhere. The report that you showed, Axios, there is a mountain. There are mountains of those reports out. There are mountains of those reports which have showed from Hungary to Brazil to the attempts in Mexico to try to strong-arm what

happened in Bolivia and Peru. Donald Trump is just an avatar for a larger global movement to continue to maintain power. It is funded by corporate greed. It is funded locally by driving people driven by white fear into white nationalism. And so, yeah, Donald Trump is, you know, he's got at least a half dozen things plaguing him right now. Of course, he's got Tish James and the civil suit in New York. He's got, as you said, Brad with the criminal probe. And his CFO has already pled guilty and will probably be testifying against him. I think that goes to trial about

a month from now. He's got a defamation suit from this lady who he said he's suing for defamation because she said that he raped her in the 90s, and he's trying to get the suit dismissed, but it hasn't been dismissed. And don't forget the 1-6 Commission and also the Georgia election tampering. But the point is this. I'm in Atlanta right now for this Asa Hilliard free return to the source conference here at Atlanta University Center. I'm sitting in the Woodruff Library. When I got off the plane this morning, the AJC, the Atlanta General Constitution, proving once again that white stream mass entertainment media cannot be trusted. The headline was Stacey Abrams not garnering the type of black support that she needs to be. I'm saying this is not news. Who owns the AJC?

You people are all lining up to maintain power by any means necessary. People now need to be smart because if they can get this power back, if they can consolidate, they're going to invalidate elections. They're going to break this thing. I don't necessarily think that's the worst thing that can happen because I think ultimately there's something on the other side of that. But let's be very clear. Yeah, there it is right there.

I'm reading this like, are you serious right now? But we're in an information war. We're easily talking about this all the time. Right, absolutely. And we're going to talk about that a little later in the show because, again, I need people to understand when they see these stories what's really going on here. So hold tight one second. We come back.

We're going to talk to the brother, Chris Jones, who is running for governor of Arkansas against Trump acolyte, Sarah Huckabee Sanders. We'll talk with him next. And we'll talk about all these stories about what's happening with black voters. Okay. Black people, we're about to actually explain to you what's actually going on, as opposed to what these other folks are trying to extrapolate,

who know nothing about black people. You're watching Rolling Martin Unfiltered with the Black Star Network. Please download the Black Star Network app, Apple phone, Android phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV, and of course, join the Bring the Funk fan club. See and check in money orders to PO Box 57196, Washington, D.C. 20037-0196. Cash app, dollar sign RM Unfiltered.

PayPal is RMartinUnfiltered. Venmo is RMUnfiltered. Zelle, Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. And get your copy of White Fear, How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds. Available at all bookstores, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, Bookshop, Chapters, Books A Million, Target. Also, order from your favorite black bookstore.

You can also download the copy unaudible. More details, go to rollingmessmartin.com forward slash white fear. We'll be right back. When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us. Growing, creating, making moves that move us all forward. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure.

Next on A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, the great resignation is upon us. Yes, it's real. People young and old are evaluating their lives and making some determinations whether to stay or to go. But before you take the leap, you need to examine your motives and make a plan. It's not so much about doing this thing or starting this business or, you know, leaving where you are to do something different. It's about getting in touch with you. How to make change while also keeping balance. Here on the next A Balanced Life

with me, Dr. Jackie on Blackstar Network. When we invest in ourselves, our glow, our vision, our vibe, we all shine together we are black beyond measure we're all impacted by the culture

whether we know it or not from politics to music and entertainment it's a huge part of our lives and we're going to talk about it every day right here on The Culture with me Faraji Muhammad, only on the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Bishop T.D.J.

Hi, how are you doing? It's your favorite funny girl, Amanda Seales. Hi, I'm Anthony Brown from Anthony Brown and Group Therapy. What up, Lana Well, and you are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Alright folks, my next guest is running against Sarah Huggins Lee Sanders, the next governor of Arkansas. Chris Jones is the first African-American running for statewide office in more than a century in Arkansas. He joins us right now. Glad to have you on the show. Chris, the reality is Arkansas, many call it the red state. Look at the polling numbers showing you down. What are you? What are you? Look, you got less than 50 days, some 47 days before Election Day. What are you doing to try to convince voters that you are a better alternative

to be the governor of Arkansas than Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who is a Donald Trump MAGA supporter? Yeah, appreciate you having me on, Roland. Great to be back. Look, that is the question to ask, right? And what we're doing is we're going and we're showing the contrast between the two of us.

On the one hand, you have a personally picked person who Donald Trump, you know, twice impeached, MAGA insurrectionist, came in and picked her to put her in place. She's not showing up. She's the kind of person that will eliminate the income tax totally, which would gut education. She wants to privatize everything. And we're talking about the chaos that would be created under someone who supports things like the insurrection versus the community that we offer. And we're offering it by showing up everywhere. You know, I'm going to every part of the state, talking to voters all over the place. And we're really moving towards galvanizing folks to turn out.

And we have to hit it in every population. One thing I will say, Roland, is that, you know, being a red state. And you know I've said this before, we're a non-voting state. There were one million Arkansans who could have voted last cycle, but didn't. And this gets at the heart of what you mentioned in the last segment. Folks have to show up now because we're at a critical moment. And if we don't make the right choice now, then democracy is beyond being at risk. And I'm not sure we can roll it back. How do you reach them, though? Because I'm constantly talking about that, the people who literally are sitting at home and not coming out,

but then they're the same people who complain about what is not happening, how their lives are not improving. How are you reaching them? We're showing up everywhere. We're going to barbershops. We're going to churches. We're going to fish fries. What I'm doing is I did a mile. I'm doing something called walk a mile in your shoes, where I'm walking a mile in every county across the state.

And in our last few walks, we had well over 100 people. Now, is that everyone? No. But do they become ambassadors to get to those other parts? Absolutely. So that's one way we're doing, which is meeting people where they are. Questions from my panel. First off, Greg. Thank you, Roland. And thank you, Dr. Jones. I just love seeing Anna. I'm on your campus, brother, the house right across the street. Oh, watch out now. No question. No question. Look, man, on your campaign website, when you open up with my family's living in Arkansas for 200 years, you know, this should need to be a contest.

We know this isn't about logic. As you say, what's your plan for turnout? What's your plan? I mean, and how do you need support to get these folks organized to get out this vote? Because we know people aren't voting with their heads. They're voting to some more basic instinct. Yeah. It's a visceral thing. Greg, good to see you again.

Folks are voting based on those who connect with them, right? I've had conversations in deep quote-unquote red areas, and they said stuff that makes my logical brain explode. Like, I'll never vote for a Democrat, but if Donald Trump was Democrat, I'd vote for him. Well, I'm not having a logical conversation.

I'm having an ideological conversation. And so when I shift and I talk with them, it brings them in. Now, for our people, part of what we have to do is drag them to the polls. And we're sending them to have a bus in every county. We need folks to help fund that. Folks can go to my website at chrisfortgovernor.com and really help us out. But those buses from early voting to election day are going to drag folks to the polls, just like back in the old day. We're talking to fraternities and sororities. We're talking to churches and really going back to the thing that

we used to do to drive people to the polls. Because at the end of the day, it's about not taking this thing for granted and making sure folks show up. Thank you. Nola. Nola? You on mute? Psych. I was. My bad.

We know you were. Your lips were moving and we couldn't hear nothing. You know, I was. My bad. We know you were. Your lips were moving and we couldn't hear nothing. You know, my bad. So thank you so much for running this campaign, especially in a space like Arkansas. My question is more in my social science kind of world. I'm curious, have you polled people in terms of how they are getting their information? And the way, the reason why I'm asking you that is because one of the things that I found in my, my research and misinformation and disinformation, you know, we talked about ideology, but the

trigger of ideology, which is emotion, which is so devoid from logic, as we all know, that we're talking about things that triggers people's emotions. And social media and the way that people are getting their information nowadays are the vehicles to that type of messaging. So I'm very curious if you or yourlled the community to see how they're getting the information? Yeah, I appreciate that question, Doc. So our polling firm has done that and they feedback us the very thing you said, where folks are getting their information through social media. And what is so challenging and yet dangerous is that you can hyper-target and send those very messages that you talked about. So we're on social media. We're also doing our targeting. And one of the things

that we also know, though, is that you can override what information you receive on social media by the experiences that folks have. And look, let me be clear. We started this race as if with an uphill battle. She has way more money than we have. We were arguably down 30 points. And now, while we're still down, we've closed the gap a lot. So we're only down 11 points now, and we're winning over groups that Democrats don't traditionally win over in Arkansas, in addition to bringing all the Democrats home. So that combination has allowed us to really target the folks that we want to reach. And then when you combine that with the old school get out the vote tactics that I learned

on Deval Patrick's campaign, that I worked in other campaigns and learned about, about how you go into these communities, meet people where they are in the way that they can be met and again, drive them to the polls. All right then, Recy. Dr. Jones, it's such a pleasure to see you on the show. I'm rooting for you, of course. You know, I find your platform to be really, really compelling. For you though, what do you think is the biggest thing that's resonating with the folks that you're talking to on the ground? Is it something that's policy-wise? Is it the humanity side, the connection with them? What do you think is going to really make the difference to kind of get people out of their seats? Because we know the Republicans, well, with Sarah Huckabee Sanders, she has her father,

she has the Trump connection. So obviously there's a lot more that you have to do to make up for her built-in fundamentals. Yeah, she does have all those built-in fundamentals. It's great to see you. And I appreciate your voice as well. You know, when I think about her, one of the things that's interesting is that she has all that,

and yet she hasn't even brought together her own party. She's not showing up. Her message is, let's say no to everything. Her message is, let's ban all abortions completely with no exceptions. And that's resonating with people. Take a quick example. We have a $1.6 billion surplus. Our teachers make less in Arkansas than they do in Mississippi.

We could have given teachers a pay raise. Right. We say thank God for Mississippi until now. And so we could have given them a pay raise. And did the legislature decide to do that? No. And Sarah Huckabee Sanders was completely silent. So we're lifting up things like that. And that's causing the teachers to come together and say, no, we want something different. But to answer your question, it's really two things. One is the clarity of our message in terms of what we want to do. We want to spread PB&J across the state, preschool, broadband, and jobs, PB&J. I like it.

People get it. They can wrap their heads around it. It's simple. You can take it away, spreading PB&J. And folks feel that because they know I can't get on the internet. My kid is doing well in school, and there's some counties where people make less than $10,000 a year. On top of that, the overarching thing is this notion of community. And I'm an ordained minister, and everywhere I go, I say,

look, I follow the second commandment in the Bible that I read, and that's to love thy neighbor as thyself. And I tell everybody that, and the thing about it is, that simple message of love and community is love thy neighbor as thyself. And I tell everybody that, and the thing about it is, that simple message of love and community is what's actually bringing our Kansas together

across the political spectrum. And that's what's going to get us across the finish line first. All right, then, Chris Jones, certainly good luck there in Arkansas. 47 days left. Make the most of it. Right. We're going to make the most of it. Thank you all. God bless you all. Appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. A little bit earlier, we showed you,

pulled the article up. So all these questions have been going out talking about what's happening in Atlanta, excuse me, in Georgia with black voters. And here's the thing that people need to understand something. Okay. First of all, the black voter today is different from the black voter 10, 20 years ago.

African-Americans today, fewer people are self-identifying as Democrats. That's first. OK. Second of all, you have more millennial and Gen Z black voters today than you had in the past, obviously, 10, 20 years. And so, as a result, if you're seeing more and more baby boomers pass away, then all of a sudden you're now seeing shifts. The question of when you talk about support, so when you hear, oh, Stacey Abrams might be getting 77% or 80%, the issue is also folks who are disaffected.

When we say disaffected, it doesn't mean they're going to vote Republican. It means they ain't voting at all. And so what you have to understand, we've been sounding the alarm here. We've been telling y'all what the cure is, frankly, to be able to do this and how you must have targeted messaging. You've got to have people, trusted sources, talking about what are the benefits that happen. You know, Recy, I remember back in 2020, 2016, I mean, you were complaining about again how the

White House putting out these long memes and all kind of, excuse me, long white papers and stuff. You're like, can y'all use how folks communicate today? Again, change it. Y'all, find the Eric Swalwell ad for me. And then, you know, and it. Y'all, finally, Eric Swalwell ad for me. And again, it's just basic messaging.

Joe Maddon always says you got to put it where the goats can get it. And I just think part of the fundamental problem is Republicans are great at bumper stickers, talking to people in a way and making it plain. Democrats want to try to sit here and give these long-ass answers. That's just simply not how folks process the information. We live and breathe it every day. That's not the average voter. Yeah, and I mean, look at what Dr. Jones just did there. PB&J. Thank you, Jesus. Somebody who gets it. That you need something that's catchy. Three things. That was three things in there. And that's what Stacey needs. I will say I'm thoroughly impressed with the broadness and the depth of her proposals. I obviously went in depth in that when I was writing my book. But I will say she didn't give me a P, B, and J from it. Okay. And so it's great to have thorough, well thought out, comprehensive plans.

It's great to have innovative plans like she does, but she doesn't have a bumper sticker. And so that's what I want for her is to come up with a bumper sticker message. And, and, and, and Georgia in particular, Greg, Brian Kemp is blocking the Medicaid expansion. That's something that disproportionately impacts the black community. He's also signed a restrictive abortion ban. So there's a lot of things that they have very clear differences on that I think can be winning messages. But she has to give us a PB&J. If she doesn't give us a PB&J, you can give us the whole damn grocery store. Okay. But sometimes you go into a grocery store, you said, you know what? I'm just going to go to McDonald's because I ain't got time for all this shit. So what she needs to do is she needs to make it a little bit more plain, make it a little bit more concise. What she's doing in terms of the Black male voter

outreach is genius, but if people don't hear about it as much as they need to, then it's only going to be as impactful as the people that she touches. So I'm rooting for her. I think that, you know, Reverend Warnock has a more compelling campaign because he has insulin. That's his big thing, insulin and voting rights. So, you know, two things that he's

very much engaged on. And I just need for Stacey Abrams to come up with that as well. But to your point, we're not a monolith. There are a lot more disaffected people. And then the last thing is disinformation and misinformation is a huge thing. It is. And when you have like a killer Mike, not to dump on him, but when you have a killer Mike that poses with Brian Kemp and says, I've looked into this man's heart and he has a good heart, not recognizing all of the policy damage Brian Kemp has done. Those are the kinds of things that people look at as opposed to the receipts. But it's also, again, for me, it goes back to how you convey a message. It's a perfect example.

The ad we're about to show you was not done by DNC. It wasn't done by the progressive PACs. It was literally done by Congressman Eric Swalwell. And to me, when I saw it, I was like, damn, that's how you do an ad. Watch this. You know what's on the ballot. It's not just legislation and policies we believe in. It's democracy.

Our democracy. There's a choice on the ballot between freedom and fear, between cruelty and compassion, between cruelty and compassion, between chaos and community, between voting or violence. And the end of rights generations have fought for. The extremists have a plan, a roadmap for a nation where your voice is silenced and your vote is a memory, where they count their votes and cast ours aside. That's why this year, this fight, this vote is so important.

Register, engage, volunteer, fight back against the disinformation and despair, and most of all, vote. Because your vote is all that stands between our future and theirs. That's an ad, Nola. That's, in terms of you lay out, these are the stakes. I mean, absolutely. It gets straight to the root of the problem. And, you know, I'm sitting here with my academic hat on and also kind of like also working between the space of academia and policy. I'm always engaged in these conversations about what we do in the academic world, the types of things that we write about do not necessarily resonate beyond that space. You know, we theorize about a lot of things, and then we have these situations where we talk

to policymakers and stakeholders and all these things, and their eyes start to glaze back because we have all of these complicated words and charts and statistics and stuff like that. And while that may work in some settings, at the end of the day, my mom and my daddy going to ask me, so what's the bottom line, baby? And that's what I always have in mind when we're talking about these sorts of issues. Again, because we're talking about the trigger, emotion is the trigger, right? Before we get to ideology, we have to connect with something emotionally for it to resonate and for us to really go hard for it. You know, like the Trumpers.

The Trumpers go hard for Trump. That is beyond ideology. He has tapped in to some level of emotionality that the Dems perhaps are still struggling with. I think getting a little bit better. And who's ever running that White House Twitter, yes, yes, and yes. I know some people are not here for it. Well, she recently got hired from one of the Twitter feed

in New Jersey, and again, it's like, hello, y'all, like, two years late. Let me tell you something, and, you know, the black voting base is huge for the Dems, and this is how we communicate. We snap back. Like, if you can snap back on somebody that's coming for you, you done won today.

And that is the approach of the Twitter White House account. But it's also, you have to explain to people what you have done. Greg Carr, before I go to you, this is a Lincoln Project ad. And I keep saying, look, if you don't know how to run ads, go have folk who do. You see this, this is called, this is what we've done, what they haven't done. Watch.

Remember this guy's contract with America? How'd that go? In a few days, the MAGAs will try to sell you another contract for America. Everything they're promising is already happening with President Biden. An economy that works for all Americans? Check. Record job growth. Good-paying jobs growing our economy. That's Biden, not MAGA. Peace through strength. Ask Ukraine who stands with them and who stands with Russia. Energy independence? Yeah, Biden's got that. Safe and secure communities? Check. Millions to improve policing, protecting our communities and civil rights. Fight to end

government corruption and drain the swamp? Who are they kidding? For seven years, they left us holding the bag and paying the bill for their reckless spending and bad ideas. Their new contract with America? Prom promises they'll never keep. But Joe Biden and the Democrats deliver. All right, Greg, so for me, if you want to create an ad where you're targeting African Americans, what you do is, in that 60-second space, you say, we did this, check.

We did this, check. Child poverty, check. Black unemployment rate. Check. Twelve billion dollars or whatever the amount of money going to black and other businesses. Check. You have to explain that. What you don't do is give the broader, broader things that you've done and then hopeful figure out in that. Well, how is it impacting me? It is called micro-targeting to audiences so you are being very specific so when somebody sees it, they go,

oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I didn't know that. Now I know. Yeah, Roland, I mean, micro-targeting, brother, you said it, and that's really the word. As I was watching that Lincoln Project ad, I was thinking, the Democrats can never make

that ad. That ad is a white nationalist ad. It's patriarchal. It's fellow-centric. You saw the Washington Monument sticking up like an erect penis about 15 seconds between it from the end. They're calling the Republican Party weak, old, corny. They start with Newt Gingrich.

Remember this guy? In other words, it's very masculinist. It's white masculinist. They're trying to peel away people who don't want to be clowned. See, the white masses, those people don't want democracy. They want nostalgia. They want a scapegoat. They want delusion. They want to escape accountability. The Lincoln Project is playing on a field that is very much Republican now. In contrast, the Democrats are also holding back. This is why the micro-targeting is so important. As you say, you've got to target different constituencies, but the lowest common denominator

that unites them all is people are not studying. Again, the article showed from. People have been writing it. So for some people, it's going to be, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. And they'll move. For other people, it's going to be PB&J. When I see Chris Jones, I'm thinking, you from Houston,

you know Mike Jones, the rapper from 15 years ago. Mike Jones, who? Mike Jones, what? Mike Jones. Chris Jones. When is Chris Jones coming? Get them guys. They don't know no policy.

They just got... I remember standing in North Philly the day before the election in 2008, and there must have been a thousand young people out there, half of them not old enough to vote. They had remixed Little Wayne's a milli, and instead of a milli, a milli, a milli, we already know, it was like

Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama. Obama, Obama. These Negroes took science and littered North Philadelphia with signs. It ain't about politics. Micro-targeting. You got to know your audience. So if they can hear that, Roland, they might have a chance. But some people ain't interested in policy.

They just want something that's entertaining. But if you do not advertise on black-owned media, if you're not sending your surrogates to black-owned media, if you're not sending your surrogates to black-owned media, if you're not talking to them, if you don't have a database of what are the black-owned digital shows, what are the podcasts, what are the non-traditional outlets, then you're going to keep playing. Here's the deal.

There's really only one national black media company. It's Urban One. That's it. And so you can't. And what they're doing, though, they're throwing money to BET. They're throwing money on the digital side, the complex. Yep, complex. That's what they're doing.

And guess what? They're not reaching people. But you know what, though? It's 47 days. I can guarantee you my phone's going to ring in October. Now, mind you, we present our plan in March. We kept saying, y'all have better been again, laying seeds

early so they sprout later. You try to come in October, your window is very small. You can't grow something in 30 days that you could have grown in six months, but folk want to be hard-headed, and then they're going to see the end result of that being hard-headed.

So, we'll see. But, folks, that's why you must watch this show because when you're seeing these stories, they're not truly walking you through what's happening behind that. They're just sort of covering on a surface level. And, again, look, most of these folk ain't deeper than mustard on a hot dog. That's just how simple they are. And so you've got to understand what's going on here. And, in fact, next

story we talk about after this break is a perfect example how Russian trolls amplified and targeted the leaders of the Women's March, how mainstream media, white journalists fell right into it. Oh, but let me be real clear, it's a whole bunch of black folks also

who went along with the bullshit when they were attacking Tamika Mallory, Linda Sarsour, Carver Perez, Bob Bland. And when the last time you heard from the Women's March? Yeah. Understand what the game plan was. We'll talk to Tamika and Linda next on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. I remember being with The View when they said, we want to extend your contract.

And I knew, God said, it's time to move. It's time to go. And everybody was saying, Sherri, you got a great job. You're making all of this money. And I said, no, it's time. And they said, you ain't going to be able to, you've been away from Hollywood. And I said, itri, you got a great job. You're making all of this money. And I said, no, it's time. And they said, you ain't going to be able to. You've been away from Hollywood. And I said, it's time to go.

And when I didn't, that's when I realized I was about to go through this divorce. And I was going to be expensive. It was going to be a lot. And I said, I'm going to stay. I said, I'm going to stay for a couple of years. So you make this money. See, go ahead.

I'm going to make this money. And then I'll get out lower. So it was a compromise. I'm going to do what you say, but I'm going to do it on my thing. And he went, really? He went, really. And you know when he went, really? They said that we were heavy in contract negotiations.

And they came, my manager called. She said, they're not going to renew your contract. And I went, hey, wait, what? Just yesterday, they was offering me more money. She said, they just decided not to renew your contract. And I remember sitting in front of the mirror at the view. And I went, what happened? And it was very clear.

God said, I told you it was time to go. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Pull up a chair. Take your seat. The Black Tape. With me, Dr. Greg Carr, here on the Black Star Network. Every week, we'll take a deeper dive into the world we're living in.

Join the conversation only on the Black Star Network. When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us. Growing. Creating. Making moves. That move us all forward.

Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Hey, everybody, it's your girl, Luenell. So what's up? This is your boy, Earthquake. Hi, I'm Chaley Rose, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Jamari Robertson has been missing from Austin, Texas, since August 30th. The 15-year-old is 5 feet 7 inches tall, weighs 140 pounds, with brown hair and brown eyes. Anyone with information about Jamari Robertson should call the Austin, Texas, Police Department at 512-974-2000. 512-974-2000.

Folks, the Women's March led the largest mass resistance march in history, January 2017. Folks all across the country and the world gathered. The reality is this here. The four individuals who really made that possible, leading that particular effort, putting together the strategy and everything behind it. Tamika Mallory, Linda Sarsour, Carmen Perez, Bob Bland. There were others involved as well, but they were for co-chairs. Well, guess what?

History also shows that when you are one of those leading forces, other forces want to take you out. They saw that with that sort of mass gathering around Trump's inauguration, what then would happen if those four were leading over the next four years? Well, guess what? I told you how white supremacy works. And we talk about white supremacy, we're not talking just about here in the United States. When I'm talking about white fear, which is my book, we also are talking about Russia and Putin and how they also think and operate.

And so they then begin to activate Russian troll farms who then begin to viciously go after the leaders, especially Linda Sarsour. Folks, the New York Times this week published a story that laid out, this was the headline, how Russian trolls helped keep the women's march out of lockstep. Joining us now

is Tamika Mallory and Linda Sarsour. Glad to have both of you back on the show. Linda, I'm going to start with you because you were quoted in an article as saying, here y'all had this massive moment and it was a high, people were talking about it,

and all of a sudden, there is this deluge of folks just coming after and just with all kind of stuff, and it was hitting from all quarters at the same time. The hate we received, Roland, immediately after the Women's March was not organic nor authentic. And we knew that, but there was no way to prove it. The ways in which we were being criticized from every left, right, from the north to the south, we didn't know what to believe. We didn't know what was going on. But what we knew was that online hate and harassment that I received in the beginning of the march that

then, of course, as you know, leaked into our other co-chairs and the Women's March was actually dangerous and it set a dangerous precedent. And just to be clear, the sentiments that the Russian government amplified already existed on the internets from the alt-right, from the right-wing, from right-wing Zionists. It was already there. So it wasn't that the Russians created the content. They just amplified the content that they had already seen in the dark corners of the web, which then, as you know, when you keep repeating a lie, you keep repeating a lie, you keep repeating a lie, mainstream media was hoodwinked. White women who were part of the Women's March

and supporters of ours across the country were also hoodwinked. Some progressives or people who consider themselves to be progressives were hoodwinked. And I will say this about Russia, knowing that we do have folks in this country, including the Republican Party and white supremacy, there's an ideological connection to the Russian government. The Russian government wanted Trump to be the president of the United States of America, knowing how he would interact with them on foreign policy. But once he got in, they needed to protect Donald Trump. And so they decided that the Women's March, and me in particular, were going to be the target to try to undermine what they believe to be a strong, united, anti-Trump force in America.

And the thing there that Linda just talked about there, Tamika, really jumps out. How when the right and then the left begins to amplify the exact same thing, so now all of a sudden you have no protection. You're like on an island all by yourself, and people are throwing stuff out, and then you're like trying to respond, and now you're getting hit by your known critics, but now you're getting hit by allies, and you're sitting here the whole time going, this is bullshit, what are you doing?

But they are feeding into it, and then it becomes a feeding frenzy. Absolutely. I mean, the Internet is very dangerous. As you know, Roland, we talk about it all the time. Once these entities, and I think Linda mentioned something that is so important, the sentiment was already there from people who would be our opposition. And in my case, particularly when dealing with other black folks online who were trolling and, you know, feeding negativity about me on the Internet, what happens is that these people who are able to exploit that sentiment, they pick it up, they take those, you know, different issues,

and they exploit it. And I'll give you an example of one issue, which actually was not a troll problem. It was a real issue that the name of the Women's March was really sort of co-opting the 1999 march that happened called the Million Women's March. So that's how the white women came into the space, already co-opting a previous movement and a previous name. And Black women were very upset about that. The New York Times article shows you how the Russians,

they found out that that was an issue and they exploited it by having a hashtag called Change the Name. And under it, they were positioning themselves, imposters, as Black women, as LGBTQIA women and men, and other individuals who were spewing much hate against us as the leaders and also the Women's March movement in general. And so I think it's really important as we figure out, like, what do we do going forward that we all understand anything you put in the universe, even if it's just a general critique, it can be exploited. So we have to ourselves on whether or not whatever we're saying is necessary and how it can be exploited. So we have to judge ourselves on whether or not whatever we're saying is necessary and how it can harm a movement.

It's interesting because just the other day, they were on Charlemagne's show on Comedy Central. They were talking about DeSantis. And he called the move by DeSantis genius. And he said, well, Democrats don't want the people in their states either. The moment that went public, the right latches onto it. Charlemagne the guy calls DeSantis' move genius.

And so it's understanding how information works. I remember when y'all terms were up and for folks who did not know y'all were term limited as co-chairs, correct? We would as board members. Right. And we could have first of all, we were founders of the organization. So we could have stayed forever if we were able, of course, if the other board members would have continued to vote for us to stay. But at the end of our term, we decided it was time for us to go. And I have to say this, and I hope Linda will, you know, she, I'm sure she'll jump in. The New York Times, I appreciate it. I appreciate that they did this research and put this in the universe and, you know, published this story. But they also were perpetrators of those who attacked the Women's March and allowed people to be presented with platforms to tell lies about us. And so there were a lot of folks around who are now calling us to say either they're

apologetic or they didn't really know. And we were trying to tell them all along that you all are being duped. You all have said they were being duped. I'm a little, you know, I ain't in the dupe space. I'm in the, it was very, and coordinated. That's how I feel. But here's where I was going with that. Because I knew your terms were up. I knew.

And so I'll never forget, the Washington Post did a story basically saying y'all were run out. Right. That's right. And what then happened was, and I'll never forget, News1.com and Blavity picked up their story, rewrote it, and follow it. I saw it, and I've been critical of Black Enterprise, The Root.

I've always been critical when black media does this. So what they did, they then aggregated, rewrote it, basically put their name on it, and I said, what are y'all doing? I said, you're just rewriting a Washington Post story. I said, how can you be black media and you don't have Tamika's phone number? You pick the goddamn phone up and call and say, hey, what's going on here? I hit Morgan DeBond at

Blavity. I hit Bruce at News 1, said, take this bullshit down. That's simply not true. If y'all just call somebody, and they're like, oh my God, so they took it down but it's a perfect example of when they will take a story that's

in mainstream media and again put it in black media and then black folks go, oh, I saw it in Blavity, I saw it in News 1 Now, I saw it on The Root, I saw it on Black Enterprise so it gotta be true and I'm like, no, no, no, no. That's the one thing we cannot do is amplify

their stuff because now you're giving a stamp of approval. And Linda, that happened repeatedly where stuff would get written and you're sitting here going, this is a flat-out lie. Flat-out lie. That's why, Roland, we love coming on

your show and we have been longtime supporters of your journalistic ethics. This entire New York Times story is an expose not just on the Russian government. It's an expose on the media. The bottom line here is that, as a journalist, your job is not to write what the Internet is saying. Your job is to write what you investigate and what you have facts to back up. And that was the issue that we had. We had media outlets regurgitating what they saw on the

internet. To your point about when we left the Women's March on Washington, all you had to do was look at our bylaws. You could look at our bylaws. You could see the timeline of when we were instated as board members. We had two-year terms. You could look at the timeline of when people started calling for our resignation, which was over a year before we actually left the Women's March. We did not leave the Women's March heeding to the calls of resignation. We committed to a two-year term at the board, at the Women's March. We completed our two years. And then we went out in the world to do the good work that we always do. And you made this point earlier, Roland, and I want to say this to all the viewers. The Women's March did not make Tamika Mallory,

and it did not make me, it did not make Carmen Perez, and it did not make the women who were part of the Women's March at that time. We made the Women's March, and now we are not at the Women's March. And guess what? Like you said, the kind of organizing that we were capable of, the high visibility that we were capable of, the high visibility that we were capable of, the strategy that we had, the partnerships. I mean, the largest civil disobediences that this country had ever seen, that was us rolling it. Now we are not there. And that is why you do not see the same type of organizing, because it was us that made the Women's March. And this is a cautionary tale for the movement. Who has interest in undermining some of the best and most effective organizers in America?

That's the question you have to ask. And for me personally, I say this and I'll say this to you and I tell this to Tamika and say this across the movement. Unity is not uniformity. So we don't all have to agree on everything. There are going to be issues, Roland, that you know people don't agree with me on my foreign policy issues. They don't agree with me on Israel-Palestine. They don't agree with me on my foreign policy issues. They don't agree with me on Israel-Palestine. They don't agree with us on defund police. There's many issues that we could debate. But that does not mean because we do not agree on certain issues, that means that we fracture

an entire movement, that we marginalize leaders that we know we need in this very critical moment, as Tamika wrote a book called State of Emergency. And we right now are in a state of emergency. And so I feel vindicated. Tamika's vindicated. We knew this wasn't authentic. We knew that millions of people didn't know who we were to hate us. But guess what? The Russians, with the right wing,

they succeeded in undermining a very powerful movement that we helped build. And the thing here, Tamika, is, look, we can, again, look at history. We can look at what COINTELPRO did. We can look at what they tried to do in trying to destroy the Black Freedom Movement. The reality is they saw, wait a minute, if this is how Trump's four years is starting, Oh, hell no. We can't let these folks build up momentum. And the difference between previous movements, the difference between Dr. King and others, is that the other folks who were allies knew what was happening

and didn't fall for the okey-doke. The problem is, when it came to the Women's March, didn't realize, knew what was happening, and didn't fall for the okey-doke. The problem is, when it came to the Women's March, the folk who were supposedly on your side, they fell for the okey-doke and didn't even realize that by them participating in it, they basically blew it up themselves. And the... And facts are facts.

Since y'all left, we ain't heard jack from the Women's March. All of that organization, the database, everything, it's like, huh? That was like, it was a moment. And that was the whole point. Only make it a moment, not make it, allow it to become a movement.

Well, it's the same, you know, same thing now with what we see happening with Black Lives Matter and all of the reporting about resources and money and who spent which money where. Now, let me be clear, accountability is important. And we don't always make the right decisions. There are things that I'm sure each, all of us sitting here, people listening, we would have done it different. And, you know, and I've said that to leaders within the Black Lives Matter movement. But I am constantly challenging, as you said, Roland, I'm not talking about right-wing folks.

I'm not talking about Republicans or even Democrats that are angry with the administration. I ain't talking about that. I'm talking about people who are in our movement, people who are walking right next to us that are sharing stories from the New York Post, Daily Mail, and all of these right-wing, what do y'all call them, rag news outlets. No good. Never have been for our communities.

They lie. They are racist. And we share the articles and the story from their perspective about our organizations. Right. Once you see these people reporting that while there may have been purchases that you can question, that's up to you if you feel they shouldn't have spent money here

or there in the third, they never mentioned that over $30 million of the resources that Black Lives Matter raised during the summer of 2020 went to organizations and families who are victims of some type of violence. They don't even really tell you about that. They want you to know about the things that they are clear will incite and have people feeling resentful of the movement and then have our folks online talking about how we don't support black-led organizations because they're stealing money. doing it. Every single Black leader that we know and Black organizations that have been out there really in the midst of a movement that is transforming culture

has been accused of taking money or some type of financial impropriety. If we don't wake up and recognize that these people are using us against us. You know, I love the conversations and as Linda said, it really does feel like

vindication to hear us talking about these, you know, folks who are our opposition that leaned in and how the Russians, you all, I love that. But I love to, I personally want to focus on how our own people carry the message. We spread it and we become the perpetuators of this type of disinformation in our communities. And it only undermines us. Well, I'll give you a perfect example. I remember when, and I'm going to go to my panelists for questions as well. I remember when the Newsweek article hit about HBCU funding. And I remember and I saw it and I remember Jamal posted something,

you posted something, and I saw it. First thing I did, yo, that's bullshit. Take it down. And again, for me, the role that I serve, I love when people go, Roland, why aren't you leading marches?

Because they need my job. Somebody got to report on the march. So my role is the, I'm the news person. And so when I see something and it's not right, the first thing I think is, oh, if you or Linda or Jamal or someone else puts it out, they go, oh, if you or Linda or Jamal or someone else puts it out, they go, oh, well, they did. So to me,

that's our personal checks and balances when certain things happen. It's kind of like, hey, I don't think you want to do that. And by talking, it's like, oh, damn, I didn't think about that. Thanks for calling. But see, that's the, oh, damn, I didn't think about that.

Thanks for calling. But see, that's the role that we have, but that's also when it comes to trust. That's why I keep telling people, to your point, you've got to stop. When you share someone's article, you literally are sharing their perspective and how they reported the article and who they didn't call and how they shading it. What's the headline? What's the focus of the story? Don't give it an objective. No, no, no. There's no such thing as objective. Everybody is subjective

because it's still written from their point of view. Go ahead. I was just going to say we all fall victim to it. It's something that we have to be conscious of and to your point, for me, I have checks and balances. Sometimes I still fail. We all do.

Yeah. But knowing, first of all, who is writing the story? Yeah. Where is this perspective coming from? That's probably the first place that you have to start. And it's the reason why I bring the New York Times article up in terms of when they ran stories or at least one big story that was full of lies about Linda. Well, not Linda so much in that story. It was really Carmen Perez and me. That's where we were targeted

by the Times. So now you have an entity that people actually, they believe, they trust the New York Times. And even they did not do due diligence. They did, in fact, speak to me. The writer spoke to me for, I don't know, must have been about an hour. We were in a hotel room on tour with the Women's March somewhere. And they spoke to me for about an hour. And when the story came out, there was literally one line of what I said and full of lies from this person who was making accusations that she also knows was full of lies. And so, you know, I think people have to be more careful where they're getting information. And to your

point, call folks yourself and ask them, is this true? Give me your perspective. And if you're going to write a story, at least put the voice of those who are being accused in it. Before I go to Nola, Recy, and Greg, I saw this, I guess we were at the Rock Nation conference, and Carmen Perez said, people have no idea the four years of hell that we all went through. Funds dried up.

We stuff was stripped. We lost a lot. Just for folks who don't understand, because there's a flip side of this. Y'all didn't just leave the Women's March organization. Again, y'all caught hell for four years. Yeah, thank you, New York Times, for now reporting it, but that doesn't erase the crap that y'all had to deal with personally for four years.

Linda first, then Tamika. I appreciate you, Roland, bringing up that part. It's hard for us to speak about that. You know, we're warriors in the movement. We're on the front lines. We stand up against police and powerful forces. So it's hard to talk about what the impact was of the disinformation campaigns against us. It compromised our safety, the safety of our families. You know, if it wasn't for my own Muslim community across the country who held me up, I probably wouldn't have been able to pay my rent. I mean, it was absolutely outrageous for a short period of time. And let me just tell you, God is good. And God

gave us a purpose and put us back on the field, as you know, put us back on the front lines. And we're very proud of where we are today. But we had the death threats. I had FBI agents come to my home in New York to tell me that I was on an assassination list. I had people mailing my mother photos of my children. My mom still has a landline in Brooklyn, New York. And my mom and dad, both who are senior citizens, had to hear some of the most horrific things that you could ever imagine, threats against their daughter, their oldest daughter, the daughter that they love. So for us, it wasn't just about a bunch of people saying some lies about us online or about people trolling us online. It was about being able to put our own resources to higher security just so we can continue to do the activism that we care about.

So I want people to know that this New York Times article is vindication, but it does not take or bring us back or give us back what we lost. And the most important thing that we lost, at least in my opinion, is, number one, our humanity, our decades and track record of the work that we were doing on such a consistent basis. And most importantly, our safety that was compromised and continues to be compromised until today. I was looking for trying to look for something you to speak. And they called me and they said, well, we've got to bring this other person as well. And I said, that's security.

And I said, no, no, it's not. We're a security firm. I said, but you need to understand what's going on here. And I remember I was trying to go through here. I was trying to think. It was at least, it was probably 2019. And I said, you need to understand what's happening here. This ain't just you're bringing in a regular speaker.

There are literal, there are folks who want to do harm, including folk who look like us. And that's the piece that folk don't want to confront is what y'all had to deal with, what this campaign did. And then when it turned your own people against you, y'all were in a situation. Who in the hell do I trust? It was it was 2019 is a year that I don't like to talk about.

It was a year that I went through such a deep, dark depression that, you know, before the year ended, as Linda said, I was financially in so much trouble that I had to text my friends to ask them if they would send money to help me because I had either I was either going to buy groceries or pay my car. one of the most important, impactful marches and resistance movements that this country has ever seen. And one of the leaders or all of the leaders in one way or another had no money to pay their bills because of what we were experiencing with people closing doors, canceling every single speaking engagement. And Linda and I always talked about, you know, at one point she was under attack in a way that was, it was extremely dangerous. It was more violent. You know, her family was being threatened. There was so much happening and we sat and we watched it and we were, we had to hire security. She was paying for personal security. There was so much happening. I had not been hit in that way at that point. And then they came for me, right? So what's the, you know, the, the, the, the state, the saying that they'll go for everyone else. And then eventually they come for you. And so they came for me. And when they

did, all of us sat back. I remember distinctly having a conversation one day where Linda and other women were acknowledging that the way in which black women are abused is like nothing they have ever seen before. You know, she was like, oh, you're not trending on Twitter. So it's going to be okay. We can, you know, don't worry. Cause I was, you know, crying, emotional, everything you could think of. And she was like, no, I'm telling you, it's gonna be okay, we're working it out. And I remember her calling me one day saying, sis, this is not good. Things are really, really, really bad.

And so, you know, it caused a lot of issues between us, too. We don't talk about it often because we're way past it and, you know, and I love Linda like she's my blood sister and the same with Carmen and Bob. Because Bob could have left us. She could have retreated to her people and said, I'm going with the white women and I'm going to cut ties with you all and denounce you. But she didn't.

She stood with us because she understood that we were not the people that was being talked about and the way we were being portrayed in the media. And she knew something was wrong with what was happening, and she went with her gut and she stood with us. And because of that, Bob is a sister to us. And so, but it did cause rifts and real difficult moments between us because we were being hit like wildfire.

And, you know, I just, I'm glad we made it through, but I can tell you, Roland, and you know it, because you've been up at 2 o'clock in the morning with me on the phone trying to counsel me through these moments. I mean, I sat in rehab trying to get myself unaddicted to prescription pills because during this time it was so dark. I didn't think I was going to make it. I was 98 pounds. And so you're talking about real serious trauma that these people and this force that it caused us. And, you know, I don't know if we're ever going to get over it. What people, as I listened to the both of you, you talked about losing speaking engagements and the physical and the depression.

Literally my mind went right back to April 5th, 1967 to April 4th, 1968. The last year of Dr. King's life was absolute hell, but his approval rating among black people failed below 30%. He was hated and despised and had bouts of depression. Yes, speaking engagements dried up. All these different things happened, and it was a tumultuous final year.

What people, and the reason I wanted to give enough space for this conversation, and yes, I am coming to Greg, Recy, and Nola, trust me. The reason I wanted to give the space, because I need the people watching. And I really need the people watching to understand this. Y'all sit at home, and I'm not dissing people who are watching, but I need you to understand,

when you're not on the front lines of a battle, you're seeing the end results of planning. You're seeing the march, you're seeing the battle, you're seeing the end results of planning. You're seeing the march. You're seeing the rally. You're seeing that. You ain't seeing everything else. You're not seeing what people are dealing with, the vicious level of attacks. And the internet has totally

changed the game now because so much of our data is now public. People now can get access to your cell phone. And all of a sudden, you're getting weird text messages and phone calls, and you can change it, and they can get it immediately. And so it requires a whole lot to deal with all of this. And as I said, when people who you thought were allies then begin to come after you

and begin to attack you and then to attack your name and again attack your credibility, then all of a sudden, then you start showing up places and it's, why in the hell are y'all here? Oh, y'all failed the other group, now you're trying something else. When y'all started Untold Freedom, I mean, I remember hearing

the things that people were saying, and I remember the conversation we had at the Million Man March 20th anniversary, when I said, I'm going to use all my platforms to amplify y'all, because y'all are actually putting in the work.

A lot of people out here, oh, I would love to do what Tamika and Linda and Carmen and Bob are doing. People come up to me, man, I would love to do what Tamika and Linda and Carmen and Bob are doing. Or people come up to me, man, I would love to do what you do. And I would then say, but do you want to go through what I went through? That's the one thing that people don't necessarily want to deal with when they got to address that. Let's go to our panel first. Recy, you up first.

Linda, Tamika, thank you for all the work that you do. I've witnessed some of the vitriol directed both of your ways particularly on Twitter and the social media and I know how difficult it is. So I just really wanted to just thank you for all the work that you're doing and

just hope that you continue to stay with it. And then the other comment I want to make is just on the disinformation part and just hope that you continue to stay, you know, with it. And then the other comment I want to make is just on the disinformation part and just how inauthentic it is that, and people get so reeled in because it has an emotional and it's provocative and they just get so tethered to these really, really negative views. And Tamika, as you said, it's that much more hurtful when it's coming from Black people. And what I found frustrating is, like, an anonymous person, a white person can say whatever they want about a Black person. And if me as a Black woman comes along and tries to debunk that

disinformation, then the daggers come out. They don't want to believe I have to show them all kind of receipts and screenshots and every kind of document under the sun, but they believe a meme or a picture or whatever with no question. So I don't really have a question so much as just to say keep it up, keep up the good fight

or not. Retire and live your life and do whatever you want to do. Be fabulous. That's fine too, but we appreciate you and that's really all I have to say. On that point, you did have a question, but I'll go ahead and ask a question. Linda, I'll start with you and go to Tamika. That last point there,

this is one of the reasons why people leave. This is, I mean, people are driven out of movements. I don't think every person understands what it takes to stay in the fight year after year after year, knowing full well the assault and the viciousness will be coming your way. Y'all could have easily stepped out and said, hey, let somebody else have this,

but you didn't. Linda? I mean, I'll just say this, Roland. You know, I'm multilingual. I'm an educated person. I could have done a lot of other different things in my life. I didn't wake up one morning as a kid and be like, when I grow up, I want to be an activist on the front line

that's going to get attacked for speaking truth to power. I was forced into this work. I think Tamika and I and Carmen, we come to this movement because we are forced to be here. We have been chosen to be here. I came to defend Muslim Americans in the aftermath of 9-11. I came here to defend my people. And then I found more people, and they're my people now. And people like me and Tamika, like, you know, we could retire, but where are we going to go? You know, we are so, we are not neck deep.

We are beyond our head deep in the work right now. And, you know, people like us that have went up against powerful forces, like we're not just going to go get, you know, a nine to five job. No one's just going to hire us to do nine to five job. We're still young. You know, we're in our early 40s. Like we still have a whole life ahead of us. And for me, my mission isn't complete and I'm going to be out here. But it takes a lot. It takes mental health.

Me personally, I'm a woman of God. I'm a woman of faith. And that really has been kind of my driving force of why I'm still here. Listen, if God wants me to take me, God's going to take me. It won't be the opposition. Even if I get assassinated, it's not the opposition that took me. It's that God decided for me to go that way. And that's what I tell myself every day. So I'm going to be out here. I'm going to be on the front lines. I'm going to continue to organize and build movement and defend black people and defend marginalized people in America because we have to. Somebody has to do it, Roland.

And I'm not going to allow the opposition to silence us nor intimidate us. And even through the darkest moments of our lives in the last few years, guess what? We were still outside and we still organized against Brett Kavanaugh's hearings. We were still organizing around family separation. That was during the height of the disinformation campaign, and we were still outside. Tamika? What else can I say? She said it all.

All right, let's go. Nola, you're next. So first of all, I'm just in awe of sharing space with you both. I just recall making my signs with my friends all ready to go downtown Los Angeles and make sure that we were out there marching and making sure that our voices were heard. And so to be sharing this space with you two right now is truly, it definitely means a lot to me. And so my question is going to come in the form of through my national security lens and listening to your stories and to think about my work around disinformation and misinformation. And for people to really understand how serious this is, I'm thinking about what happened to you both in terms of the relationship between misinformation and disinformation and human security. Human security is one of those things that are really kind of people are starting to take very seriously within a national security space because of everything that you just said. And the way that Russian misinformation and disinformation is designed to be insidious, the way that it is designed to tear you down and not caring anything about consequences.

I mean, who is just this abstract Russian troll form in St. Petersburg that, you know, we don't have access to? So, you know, the way that I need people to understand that the amount of information that these troll forms have on Americans and they understand what our vulnerable points are. They understand how racism works in this country. They understand how gender discrimination works in this country, how sexism works in this country. So when you have a movement, a movement driven by women of color, a woman out there wearing a hijab, they go back to all of their information about how to tear us apart. And unfortunately, you all are living examples of how effective Russian disinformation and misinformation is. And I am so sorry for everything that you all had to go through and that you're still going through and that you will literally be in the history books as examples of this. And you are living, breathing people. And I'm happy to see that you're

still here. But you're making the point for a lot of people like me who talk about the human aspect of security, right? Not just, you know, about nuclear weapons and all these things that, yes, we should be worried about. But when we're talking about security vulnerabilities, about people's real lives, real lives. That's right. Right. And that that becomes something completely different. Yeah. But just with my question is. What's what's next? How are you thinking about the movement? What does this article do? You mentioned the word vindication.

Is that enough for people to say, you know what? I was wrong about those two. I was wrong about the movement. Does this give you a new momentum? And thank you so much. No, thank you. And I appreciate you and your expertise. And I think this is an important question and frame that you so much. No, thank you. And I appreciate you and your expertise. And I think this is an important question and frame that you brought up.

You know, I want the United States government to understand how vulnerable our democracy is. I want them to understand national security, not just from the perspective of terrorism and countering terrorism, but also countering these disinformation campaigns whose entire mission it is to undermine our democracy, to sow discord amongst the American people. And they have succeeded and showed us that they can succeed. This time it may be Russia. Next time it may be another foreign government that also has a nemesis with the United States. And this is also an opportunity for social media platforms, right? Social media platforms have for so long failed at moderating the conversations and the internet. Who is using social media platforms to imposter black women and to imposter LGBTQIA people and other marginalized people?

What is the role and responsibility of social media platforms to keep their users safe? And that is what they fail to do. And the disinformation campaign, what it does is it feeds into people's already existing fears, existing, you know, biases. And what it does is it fuels oftentimes people who may even suffer from mental illnesses. So next thing you know, a guy is tweeting at you saying that, you know, you and your daughters deserve to get raped. The next thing you know, you go to an event and you have 40 men standing outside with guns in places like Arizona. So this also goes out back into the street. This is not—I could just delete Twitter off my phone if I wanted to.

I could just not be on social media. But that doesn't take away from people looking for us and finding us wherever we were to the point where we stopped even posting flyers saying where we're going to be because it was not safe for us. And so for us, I mean, the momentum of the movement is being stifled right now. It's being stifled by the critiques of black-led organizations, black-led movements, people of color-led movements. We are also in a moment where a lot of our people feel disenfranchised, and they feel disenchanted with politics and the ways in which we've experienced the last few years. And I don't mean experienced as in this story in the New York Times. I'm saying people who are not getting the basic, you know, feed their families.

And people are just like, what is this election going to do for me? What are these elected officials? So we are in an uphill battle as organizers, encouraging people to vote in the midterm elections. We have 2024 right around the corner, and everybody keeps telling us, what's going to change? I've been living like this for the last 30 years. What's the thing that you think you're going to give me that's going to change my life? So I'm worried about the state of our movement. And like I said earlier,

we're worried, we're concerned, but we know we're the right leaders. We know how to talk to the people. We know where the people that need to be talked to are at and we're willing to go there. Yeah, you know, I agree. And what I would say is, it's not that they can find you. They did find us. A number of events that we attended, places where we were speaking and other personal activities that we were involved in, people showed up with guns and they made, you know, they made a ruckus within some of our speaking engagements. It happened to Linda several times. And it also happened to me being followed, having law enforcement, local law enforcement find out, you know, through their different channels that there may be some issues, some threat. And so the police would be present at events or contact some of the schools that I was speaking at, especially during this, you know, really critical time again, 2019,

they would show up and you have law enforcement officers there saying, hey, you know, we've got a message that, you know, someone's showing up to the school today that's threatening Tamika's life. And now, now I'm threatened two ways, because I'm looking at law enforcement standing in front of me, who I also am very nervous and challenged by what their role can be. But I have to trust in this moment that they're going to work with the security firm

or, you know, the security that I have with me to protect my life. This is happening to us as women also on the road. And you know, security is also, it's not cheap. So let's just be clear on a very basic level. I go places sometimes by myself now, and people say, why are you here alone? You need to have 24 hours security.

Well, we did have 24 hours security while we lived in Kentucky for four months fighting for Breonna Taylor. And if I show you the security bill, and these were people who were our friends. They are family to us. But it's for someone to leave their family and stay with you for 24 hours a day driving the car. We could not go to a restaurant and eat food just ordered from people who are in the back in the kitchen cooking, and we don't know that they're looking out into the restaurant.

They see us there. We don't know what they might do to our food, right? Because we know that one of the ways that they've been able to hurt and harm our leaders has been through food. And so we had many layers of issues, to your point, Roland, that people do not see or even understand. and harm our leaders has been through food. And so we had many layers of issues, to your point, Roland,

that people do not see or even understand. Having to hire someone to come in to make sure that we ate every day. Because by the way, when we were in Kentucky, we were on the news every single day. There was nowhere that we went in Kentucky that people were not aware. Those are the troublemakers.

So how do we know who's the chef in the back that's cooking up our food and putting whatever, God knows what in it? And so when people start questioning, why do you need to raise money? You know, what is the money going to? Well, how come you guys have a chef? It's not just vanity. This is necessity for our lives. And it costs a lot of human capital. It takes a lot of resources to be able to protect those people who are out there putting their lives out, you know,

putting ourselves on the front line and putting our real names, our real profiles on the internet. And I'll say this last thing that, you know, if there is a younger leader or someone listening right now, who's trying to figure out what do I do? Because sometimes they're being attacked. Do not engage. I learned, you know, Roland and others pulled my coattail. Linda took Twitter completely off my phone. I remember waking up one day and there were 400 unique mentions about me in articles on the internet saying that I was finished, you know, my career was over. They were calling me all types of names,

reverse racism, you name it. They were all over me on one day and I sat in a dark room, so depressed because how do you get out of that? We don't even have the tools to lend this point about being concerned about, you know, what we are doing in this country and how we're going to protect and defend our democracy, whatever little bit we have left. We don't even have the tools necessary to fight back against people who have been working to undermine our movements and our society for far too long. And we better get ready because it's only going to get worse.

Ray Carr. That's right. Thank you, Roland. And thank you both, Tamika and Linda. You didn't mention any names, Tamika, but I can say that I talked to Farrah Stockman at the New York Times for about an hour about ADOS. And when it was clear that she couldn't get me to say what she wanted to say, when she ran the really underwhelming article, it was really so full of misrepresentations, I wouldn't even quote it. that Christmas Eve, Eve article accusing y'all of anti-Semitism with Ferris Stockman's name just reminded me that there's been, to be charitable, let's just say a quality drop-off with the New York Times. But at any rate, and they love patting themselves on the back for doing things they should have never done in the first place. But my question is really about the victories that you all have had. And I think about those in this very specific two instances. I've got students at Howard, and I meet students all the time. Some of those

students were in the streets with y'all in Louisville. Some of them are Louisville residents. You all are heroes to them. And I know that sustains you. And I think about the fact that so many people, millions in this country, many of whom would call themselves hating your guts, have material benefits because Ossoff and Warnock are in the Senate instead of two Republicans in Georgia because of the work that you all and others did in that battle, that war here in the state of Georgia. I wonder if you could share with us what, you know, maybe an example or two of moments

beyond these cameras, beyond this print, beyond this weaponized propaganda and the lowbrow journalistic standards that have kind of amplified this stuff, some of the stuff beyond the cameras that have kept you inspired and encouraged. Linda, can I just jump in really quick? Because I want, because, you know, Linda is a great orator, and I would love for her to just run down all the things that we've done and the accomplishments. But I just want to tell this one very quick story. You talked about Warnock and Alsop. Well, Lucia McBeth, Congresswoman Lucia McBeth, she was standing on the stage with me in 2017 when we brought out all the mothers who lost their loved ones to different forms of violence, she and I were standing on the stage and we looked out at the sea of women. And she said, I think I'm going to run for office.

That was in 2017. Look at her now. She is a congresswoman. And that happened because she decided that there was a market for her, that there were people who would support her. And the women got behind her that she has in her belly from the story of her son being murdered by a white supremacist to go out into this country and try to make real change. Those are tangible things that happened with the Women's March that we can tell you, and there's so much more.

Yes, thank you. Linda? I think that's just one illustration of really the larger mission that we have. We were a political force. More women went to Congress in 2018 than ever before. Not only did women go to Congress, over 110 women. We had a history making. Two first Latinas from Texas, the first black woman from Massachusetts, the first two Muslim ever in our history,

the first two Native American women, the first Palestinian American woman, the youngest black woman from Massachusetts, the first two Muslim ever in our history, the first two Native American women, the first Palestinian American woman, the youngest black woman to ever. I could go on and on about the history-making that we did around organizing women in the women's vote. And back to our origins of criminal justice reform, banning no-knock warrants with a coalition of people in Louisville, Kentucky, keeping Breonna Taylor's name alive and making sure that she trended from one corner of the world to the other, and making sure that somebody – and we're still on this journey – gets held accountable for the murder of Breonna

Taylor. We are – our accomplishments of passing landmark legislation across the country, including here in New York City, being part of coalitions to pass the Community Safety Act and getting an inspector general for the New York Police Department that was independent. I mean, we could sit here for days. And that was the thing that really was the most troubling for us, Greg, to your point and your question that you pointed to us, is that we are a woman of not just good organizers. We were winning. We were winning on multiple levels. And the reason we even got to the Women's March was because we needed winners to win and to organize and to mobilize. None of the white ladies we organized with, they never organized.

They couldn't organize their own family. And they told us that. They said, we came here because my father voted for Trump, my uncle, my husband. I came here to rebel with you, but I need to follow what you're doing because I never organized a march ever in my life. I was the senior fundraiser for the Women's March. Tamika led all of operations. Janae Ingram, who's a Black woman, led logistics in Washington, D.C. We had Black women and women of color in all strategic positions around. Paola, who's Latina, she helped lead program with Carmen. We need people to know that when you

follow women of color, when you center women of color leadership, you will win. And then when you do win, opposition will try to tear that leadership down. Indeed. Well, first off, the reality is with all the hell y'all caught, both of you are still standing, still here, still

giving folks hell, have endured a lot, but the reality is you fought through it. And yeah, there were folks who didn't abandon y'all, who still took your phone calls. And Tamika is right, yeah, there were numerous 2 a.m. phone calls. But then again, I'm always up late anyway,

so you call me at 2 a.m., I'm like, yo, what up? Trust me, it ain't sleepy. You call me at 2 a.m. I'm like, yo, what up? Trust me, it ain't sleepy. You call me at 6 a.m., that's a different conversation. But look, I appreciate both of you. Y'all do fantastic work. You're doing stuff right now. Again, with Untold Freedom, the reality is a lot of folks would have forgotten Breonna Taylor were it not for the work that y'all did with the folks on the ground and other people around the country.

And so I say, you know, keep it going. Keep the faith. And, of course, y'all know y'all can call me at any time. And like I told y'all then, anytime y'all got something to do, just give a brother a holler. You'll be on the show. It's not like we have layers here. The only boss I got is Jesus, so ain't nobody above me. So I ain't got to ask nobody. No, that's right. Thank you, Roland. Your support is consistent and sustaining because there have been times,

especially with the Breonna Taylor case, that we didn't have anyone to report what was happening after all the cameras left and, you know, especially after Daniel Cameron did not secure an indictment against those police officers. At that point, you know, and I say Daniel Cameron is a criminal and Ben Crump, attorney Ben Crump has been telling me to be careful how I say what I say about him because, you know, he's such a, he didn't say this, Attorney Crumpton said, that he's so much of a coward that he could try to sue me for whatever it is, you know, whatever. So with that being said, the cameras left after the Daniel Cameron piece. And then the only support we had to tell the story and to keep it alive was to continue to return to your show so that you can help us to amplify our work so you're consistent and we appreciate you and we support you we for you and we just thank you so

much for the love i certainly appreciate it so uh y'all keep swinging uh and we'll be right there uh because again as mlk said in this book uh where do we go from here chaos or community he said there are four institutions primed to position black people, one to deliberate black people. He said one of them was a negro press, but this is what he said, they must maintain their militancy and not fall for

the conservative. That's what he wrote because he understood by having a strong black-owned media, then we have an outlet to be able to tell our story and fight misinformation, disinformation. So I appreciate both of you sharing your story with us. It wasn't easy, but we certainly appreciate it.

Thanks a lot. Thank you. All right, folks. Got to go to a break. We come back. A former police official details how to deal with these encounters. She created an organization to deal with that. We'll talk to her next right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Folks, support us by downloading our app.

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We'll be right back. When we invest in ourselves, our glow, our vision, our vibe, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. Hi, I'm Dr. Jackie Hood-Martin, and I have a question for you.

Ever feel as if your life is teetering and the weight and pressure of the world is consistently on your shoulders? Well, let me tell you, living a balanced life isn't easy. Join me each Tuesday on Black Star Network for a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. We'll laugh together, cry together, pull ourselves together, and cheer each other on. So join me for new shows each Tuesday on Blackstar Network, a balanced life with Dr. Jackie. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are Black Beyond Measure. We're all impacted by the culture, whether we know it or not.

From politics to music and entertainment, it's a huge part of our lives. And we're going to talk about it every day right here on The Culture, with me, Faraji Muhammad, only on the Black Star Network. What's up, what's up? I'm Dr. Ricky Dillard, the choir master. Hi, I'm Amber Stevens-West from The Carmichael Show. Hi, my name is Latoya Luckett, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Alright, folks. We've detailed many times what happens in these encounters with police and

how people respond. My next guest was the first African-American female to achieve the position of deputy chief within the Durham, North Carolina Police Department. Once she retired, she said, you know what? I want to teach folks how to deal with these issues. She's creating an organization that teaches life-saving strategies to employ when interacting with law enforcement. BJ Council is the founder of UN5O. Joins us now from Durham, North Carolina. So UN5O, interesting name there, BJ. Thank you very much.

So walk us through that because, I mean, obviously, we see these cases just over and over and over again. And even when you take a Sandra Bland, you know, she knew she hadn't done anything wrong, but that cop was, when he said to put your cigarette out and she reacted, he said, get out of the car, he knew the law and he used it against her because when she said no, he said, boom, I can now arrest you. Yeah, I mean, he did and unfortunately it ended the way that it did.

Yes, sir. And so with your organization, so what are you teaching? What are you walking folks through? I'm walking folks through to basically exercise their rights. Uh, and, you know, being a black female, the first thing, I'm black. I'm not defined by being a law enforcement. I'm defined by being my blackness.

And so my community is dying at the hands of law enforcement, and I'm trying to teach them to exercise their rights. And what I found out as a black police officer is a lot of our community don't know how to exercise their rights, and that's what I'm trying to get them to do. When you say exercise your rights, what does that mean? They're constitutional rights. They're things that they just don't...

that you can... that we can do. You have the Fourth Amendment. To say no to a search doesn't mean that the search won't happen. It just means that you are now exercising your right to say no to a search doesn't mean that the search won't happen. It just means that you are now exercising your right to say no to a search. And if the officer has enough, they can search. It doesn't mean the search won't occur. It just means if an officer crosses the line and is starting to violate your right, if you arrest it, then you tell your lawyer he violated my

rights. And then you have the Fifth Amendment. The Fifth Amendment means you don't have to answer any questions. Basically what I tell my folks is answer the basic stuff, date of birth, name, and your address. After that, if you want to talk to police, talk to them as much as you please. But, you know, our leader just used the Fifth Amendment approximately 140 times. So we all can use the Fifth Amendment if we choose to do so. So it's just getting people to understand that. Well, actually, Donald Trump used it 400 times during the deposition.

But even with that, what you just said there, we had the pastor on in Alabama who was watering the flowers. Law there, he didn't have to give him his name. And because he was a former police officer, he said, I don't have to give you my name. He said, yes, you do. He said, actually, no, I don't. That's the flowers. Law there, he didn't have to give him his name. And because he was a former police officer, he said, I don't have to give you my name. They said, yes, you do. He said, actually, no, I don't. That's the law. And so it's understanding. So with your class,

how are y'all doing this? Are you having individual classes? Are you having online stuff? How are you teaching folks to understand their rights? So what's your protocol? So it's mainly in person and virtual now,

obviously, but we just do that in person, and I'm listening to the Black community because I'm trying to give folks a safe space, and they can say anything that they want to say about law enforcement. I make it really clear in the beginning of the conversation. I'm not interested in whether or not you like police or 12 or whatever it is you're calling them now. I'm not interested in whether or not you like police

or 12 or whatever it is you're calling them now. I'm interested in you getting home. The ultimate goal is I need black and brown bodies to get to the house. You liking the police or the reason they stopped you is not an issue for me. My issue is that you need to go home and get home safely. And the way to do that is to basically cooperate with law enforcement and get through the interaction. I understand that the, I understand the history. Okay. I understand that. And, but what the main thing is I need folks to get to the house. Absolutely. Recy, question. Yeah. I mean, how do you balance cooperation with not self-incriminating, like invoking the fifth or whatever the situation may be?

I'm just curious about that. Yeah. The thing is, I just looked at the News 1 did an article on 131. The one that looked at it read was 131 black men and boys were killed by law enforcement. And I studied that. And we went through that and we looked at it. And what it said was, most of the interactions, you cooperate, you're going to get home. Those individuals died before resisting. 80 of those 131 individuals resisted by either charging at the officer weapon or resisting or running. So what I'm saying is don't run. Cooperate so you can get home. Not saying that it's always the thing. I'm reading a book called The Anointing of Ease, and a five-year-old

told his aunt that he was being chased by a bully. She said, what is he chasing for? I don't know. And then he said, why are you running? I don't know. And the thing is, the next day, he didn't run, and the bully didn't do anything. So the thing is, if you don't run, the officer is going to have a lot of difficulty in trying to articulate to a leadership and people in the jury box why you shot somebody that stopped and put his hands up. It's going to be hard to defend that. So my thing to the community is stop running and cooperate with the officers because it's going to be hard to articulate to them. Because the first thing they're going to say if you resist is, I feared for my life.

What I'm saying is take that away from them. Take that away if you cooperate. Then it's going to be difficult for them to articulate that I feared for my life. So stop running is the thing that I want folks to do because it's cooperating and getting home. Greg? Thank you, Roland. And, you know, such important work. I was reading one of the pieces of research you undertook, the disproportionate minority contact research

you did, and you talked, I guess, after training and having workshops, particularly young people's awareness of their rights seemed to increase by a fifth. Wondering what's your general sense of how much we know about our rights in any given encounter with law enforcement? We don't know. And that's what I'm trying to get people to understand. We don't know our rights. We don't exercise those very constitutional rights. Because a lot of times, as a police officer, if I got you, I got you. OK? I don't need, all I need is your name, date of birth, and address. And I'm sorry. No, go ahead. So if I have, if I've got enough to make the arrest, you cooperating, because I'm, it's a job.

So that's another thing. People got to remember it's a J-O-B. And so, but you have the right to say, it's just exercise your right. That's the big thing. Just to exercise and knowing that you don't have to answer any questions if you choose to. Just give them the basic information and then say, I want to speak to a lawyer. That's it. That's it. Nola, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this very important work.

My question is around the issue of trust. I noticed that even in my own work in a national security space do you gain trust for people that have a rightful kind of, you know, historical apprehension towards law enforcement and security? Like, I'm very curious about how do you go about gaining that trust for people to believe what you are saying is for their benefit and that you're not some agent of the state? Well, first of all, because I'm Black. And the fact that I'm defined by that. I'm not defined by my uniform. So I spend a lot of time making sure people see BJ and that I'm a human being and I'm trying to interact. I'm doing

my job. And as long as I can do the job, I didn't write the laws. I'm just enforcing the laws and that I want to take care of you and let's just get the job done. So the thing is, I'm here and doing this work because I'm a black female and I've seen our black communities and trying to figure out how to help them and as to educate them because I understand as a Black female and a police executive what the issues are. The issues are that as a Black female, I'm looking at through the lens of that every failing, the systems, all systems that are in this country are failing. And I'd see it at a bird's eye view on the ground. Social services, judicial system, health stuff, all of that going into these homes, and I'm seeing the failure.

And then law enforcement is having to deal with that, and we're not built for that. So me coming into the space is letting you know I'm here to help you navigate this system because you've got all these other systems that are failing. Let me show you how to navigate this so you're not a part of this system, and you get to go home.

All right. Working for us, get more information about your group? What you do? Yes, thank you. www.y-o-u-a-n-d f-i-v-e dash the letter o dot com and email

training at u-n-5-o dash o dot com. All right. BJ, thanks a lot. Good luck. Thank you very much, sir. All right, folks. Final story. A Pennsylvania jury has convicts a former Philadelphia police officer for killing an unarmed black man. Eric Rook was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter in possession of an instrument of crime in the 2017 murder of Dennis Ploughton.

On December 27, Rook chased Ploughton after possibly identifying his white Hyundai as a car tied to a murder investigation. After a short chase, Ploughton crashed into three parked cars, got out of his vehicle, walked a few steps and sat down. Reports indicate Ploughton seemed dazed after the crash. Responding officers, including Rook's partner, testified that Ploughton reached toward his pocket just before Rook fired the fatal shot into his head. None of the officers were wearing body cameras at the time. Rook faces the possibility of at least three years in jail. His sentencing is set for November 17th. This was the first time in at least 40 years

that an on-duty police officer was on trial for murder in Philadelphia. Folks, that is it for us. Let me thank Nola, Recy, and Greg for joining us on today's show. Thank you so very much. I was going to show folks, y'all, some of the Sydney 48 Doc last night. I'll save it for tomorrow, so that way

because, brother time, that flight from the West Coast is always a tough as one, especially literally landing, coming straight to the office to host the show. We'll have that for you. The doc also premieres tomorrow on Apple Plus. And so, yeah, so if you want to see the Sidney Poitier doc, it's only on Apple Plus.

Not on Netflix. Not on Hulu. Apple Plus is a separate streaming service. That's the world we live in now. Ain't no different between HBO, Showtime, Starz and all of them. So the Sidney Poitier documentary, Sidney, is going to be on Apple Plus.

So we'll show you the comments that were made last night by Reggie Hutland, Oprah Winfrey, as well as the Poitier daughters. Folks, again, if you want to support us in what we do, please download our app, the Black Star Network app, available on all platforms, Apple phone, Android phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV.

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Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Let me thank Ola Murphy, Linda Peavy, Archelis Pons, Cheryl Jackson, Vanessa Howard, Vincent Wright, Clifford Jones, let's see, Paul Martin, Crash, Vincent Porter, let's see here, Helen Smith, Winston Martin, Crash, Vincent Porter. Let's see here. Helen Smith, Winston Freeman, Nelson, Dexter Grant, Rivette Riley, let me think all of you.

Let's see, Sis Tamika Woods, William Arthur Hines, Marva Boatman, Timothy Bryant, Nicole Chanel Johnson, Serena Melvin, Leon, Terry Ganey, Nyla Sakakura, thanks a bunch, Jeffrey Carter, William, Richard, Chance Glenn, Felicia Newman, Karen Vernon, Sue St. Clair, Daris Williams, Passion Baker, Calvin Rasco, also Ayuna Platt, Terrence Green, Corey Pearson, Norman McLeod, Anthony Merriweather,

Cheryl Hutchins, Melissa Ricks, Yasmeen, Audrey Myers. Let's see here. Victoria Ba, John Wilson, Rhonda McCarroll, Keon Brooks, Enos Pritchett, Joshua Thomas, Linda Hodges, Kim Gregg, Oquendo Gadsen, Crash as well, Loretta Curry, and Tony Miller. Thank you to all of you for joining our Bring the Funk fan club.

Your contributions are greatly appreciated. Thank you so very much, folks. That is it. We will see you tomorrow right here, Roller Mark Unfiltered, Saturday. We're gonna be in Warren County, North Carolina covering the opening of an EPA office there. Michael Regan, the EPA administrator will be there. Reverend Dr. William Barber, Derrick Johnson,

NAACP and so many others. So, we'll be live streaming that. So, we'll be on the road in Warren County, North Carolina on Saturday. That event is gonna be from 1 to 3 p.m. And so, look for that on the Black Star Network. Folks, that's it. I got to go. I'm gonna take am. And so look for that on the Black Star Network.

Folks, that's it. I got to go. I'm going to take a nap. I'll see y'all tomorrow. Holla! This is an iHeart Podcast.