#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Ill. Convictions Overturned,Illegal Voting Maps,Darius Cooks Petition Denied, Sesame Place Diversity

Episode Date: August 11, 2022

8.10.2022 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Ill. Convictions Overturned,Illegal Voting Maps,Darius Cooks Petition Denied, Sesame Place Diversity They spent 174 years in prison because of alleged misconduct by a disgraced former Chicago police detective. Now the convictions of seven people have been overturned. Cook County State's Attorney Kim Foxx is here to tell us about these cases and how many more convictions could be thrown out.  Eight Minneapolis correctional officers of color agree to a $1.5M settlement for being prohibited from guarding the white cop who killed George Floyd.  Republican dram redistricting maps in four states were ruled to be illegal germanders. We'll talk to the  Senior Counsel, Brennan Center for Justice, to find out why they are still being used.  Good old Donald Trump once said only 'the mob' uses the Fifth Amendment. But that's exactly what he said he invoked during today's deposition with the New York attorney general. We'll take a look at last night's primary results.  It took a class action lawsuit alleging racial bias to get Sesame Place to implement new measures to expand its "diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts."  We'll tell you what those "measures" are.  She was accused of stalking an Atlanta social media cook. After five months of waiting, the judge said, Nah, she wasn't stalking anyone. We'll have an update on the Darius Cooks saga.  And in today's Tech Talk Segment, we'll show you an app that can help determine your hair type and the best products to use on your natural hair.  Support RolandMartinUnfiltered and #BlackStarNetwork via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered Venmo ☛https://venmo.com/rmunfiltered Zelle ☛ [e-mail] Annual or monthly recurring #BringTheFunk Fan Club membership via paypal ☛ https://rolandsmartin.com/rmu-paypal/ Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox 👉🏾 http://www.blackstarnetwork.com #RolandMartinUnfiltered and the #BlackStarNetwork are news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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They spent a combined 174 years in prison as a result of the gross misconduct of a Chicago cop. As a result, the convictions of seven individuals have been overturned. We'll be joined by Cook County State's Attorney Kim Fox, folks, to talk about this case and why she overturned those convictions. Eight Minneapolis corrections officers of color, they have won a judgment of $1.5 million when they were removed from being able

to protect Derek Chauvin when he went in prison. Oh, so remove the black folks and others and only have white corrections officers around Derek Chauvin. Yeah, now it's costing them $1.5 million. Republicans, folks, are running this fall on illegal maps in four states, disenfranchising black voters.

We'll talk with the Brennan Center about that. And Donald Trump, he once said that only mobsters plead the Fifth Amendment when testifying. Well, today, when he sat across from New York Attorney Jones, Letitia James, he pled the fifth for four consecutive hours. Hmm, sounds like you guilty. Sesame Place has put in a diversity, equity,

and inclusion plan after they have been criticized for ignoring black customers. Also, she was accused of stalking Darius Cooks. Well, my guess, he had on the show before, won and beat him in court. We'll tell you about the update in that particular case. People are still talking on social media. And in today's Tech Talk segment, folks,

we'll show you an app that can help you determine your hair type, the best products to use on your natural hair. It is time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered, the Black Star Network. Let's go. He's got it.

Whatever the mess, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling Best believe he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling

It's Uncle Roro, y'all It's rolling, Martin, yeah Rolling with rolling now Folks, I lived six years in Chicago running the Chicago Defender, having a talk with my mom. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender.

I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. I was a big fan of the Chicago Defender. Folks, I lived six years in Chicago, running the Chicago Defender, having a talk show on WVON radio, and I can tell you the one thing that has been consistent,

corrupt Chicago cops. Now the convictions of seven people have been overturned as a result of another cop accused of framing dozens of people for murder. It is believed that police detective Ronaldo Guevara framed up to 51 people, sending all of them to prison. Seven of those people spent a combined 174 years in prison. Today, they are no longer felons. Their convictions have been overturned. We're joined now by

Cook County State's Attorney, Kim Fox from Chicago. Kim, always glad to have you on the show. This has to be the worst nightmare for someone where you didn't commit a crime and you were framed for it

by a cop, someone who people trust, juries trust, DAs trust, people trust, supposed to trust their work. So what in the hell happened here with this detective? Well, first, thank you for having me back, Roland. It's always a pleasure. But this was a detective who was working in the Humboldt Park neighborhood in the city of Chicago in the late 80s and 90s when homicide rates were astronomical.

And he was known in the department as someone who could solve cases that no one else could solve. And the reason that he could solve cases that no one else could solve was because he was cutting corners, because he was coercing confessions, because he was manipulating evidence, um, and he was essentially, for lack of a better term, hemming people up. And because crime was so bad, because these defendants were largely Latino men, Black men, Latino women,

um, people weren't paying attention. And he was able to, over the course of about 10 years, send a number of people to prison based on evidence that we would never use in a trial today. So now, what the hell happened? What, did previous DAs and prosecutors just simply accept his word and his work. No verification.

Was it guns planted? Was it lack of DNA? I mean, how did this happen? Well, it was a mess, right? And some of it wasn't as obvious, right? So you would have an eyewitness who would go and identify the defendant and say that's the person who did it. And what we later found out is that the detective was coercing that, or the detective had told them that's the person who shot your loved one. And then the people would be like, oh, okay,

and went along with it. And if it wasn't elicited at trial, you didn't know. There was a case, for example, where there was a photo array, where they lay out the photos of potential suspects, where someone identified a different person in that photo array than the defendant. And what Detective Guevara did was take that photo array, put it in a file cabinet in a basement, and it wasn't discovered for 30 years.

So this was a guy who had all kinds of tactics that he would use, some not so obvious to people. And again, you had these people saying, hey, he is manipulating things. But they were largely men of color in a high crime neighborhood where it was, are you going to take the word of these men or a noted detective? And most people took the word of a noted corrupt detective. Now, how did your team discover what was going on and discover the truth? So that's the sad part, Roland. When I came into office in 2016, Detective Guevara was known. There had been a report commissioned all the way back in 2013

that found that he had been engaging in these practices and said that the prosecutor's office should look at these cases to see if they should be overturned. Now, my predecessor, Anita Alvarez, got that report in 2013 and did nothing with it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

You came into office when? December 1st, 2016. So she got a report. Anita Alvarez got a report in 2013 and for three years sat on it, did nothing. We didn't see any affirmative convictions being vacated from 2013 until 2016. There were two cases that were done in 2016. But since 2016, well over two dozen of those cases have gone through, and those convictions have been overturned.

But yes, there was a period of years in which it was identified that this detective was problematic, and the system did nothing about it. So, your team, when did y'all see the report, and then what did you begin to put in place to begin to look into these cases? So, the report was on my desk when I got there. It was waiting for me, and we had cases that were already working their way through what

we call post-conviction, where people have been in prison and they're asking for another review of their case. And so right when I got there, there were cases that were sitting and waiting and going to hearings where we were starting to lose. And I'll be honest, our office, you know, had a history of protecting convictions at all costs. And we were saying we're not going to protect convictions where we have concerns about the evidence. And you should know these are all murder cases. And so people are reluctant to overturn a murder case. But starting in 2017, I think April of 2017, five months into my tenure, we vacated the first of the convictions under my tenure. And like I said, since then, through both the courts and through my office saying we are no

longer standing by these cases, well over two dozen cases have been overturned. Yesterday was the first ever what we would call mass vacating of convictions in one day, seven murder convictions thrown out, never in the history of Cook County, and I don't in the history of the country. So how many total, so he's accused of framing up to 51 people. How many total cases have been overturned or convictions thrown out? And are you now examining other cases he was involved in? So the number, we keep trying to get our hands around, we believe the number is somewhere around 32 cases, not just for my term, but before

all of the cases combined. And we have an additional three cases that we have reviewed, and we are not going to object to those convictions being overturned. And we have said, and we said in 2019, we did a call out for others who may have not had their cases come to us to bring those cases to us. So we anticipate that there will be more cases coming, but all told, we estimate about 35 of those convictions will be thrown out. Now, what happened to this cop? This cop is collecting two pensions, a Chicago Police Department pension and a Chicago Park District pension, and is living in San Antonio. And the unfortunate reality is, much like with John Burge, who people might not remember as a commander here in Chicago who tortured black men on the South Side of Chicago to

get them to confess to crimes and was never prosecuted for the torture he inflicted. He ultimately went to jail for lying at a deposition because of the statute of limitations, which is the amount of time we could take someone to trial. With Detective Guevara, most of his perjury that he committed in these cases, a lot of these acts that he did happened in the mid-90s, which meant that the statute of limitations for prosecuting him for those acts have passed. But we are looking to see, you know, he has been called in depositions. He has pled the fifth repeatedly.

To your point that you made in your introduction, he will not answer questions about his work. And so we have to look and see if, under oath, he has given testimony within the last several years for potential perjury charges. So you're telling me a Chicago cop frames nearly three dozen people or even higher. Yeah. These people spend years in prison,

and he's chilling. He's collecting thousands upon thousands of dollars in taxpayer funds, and he's good. And the other part of that, and the taxpayer is paying these men and women for what he inflicted upon them. Already, there have been tens of millions of dollars that have been spent compensating the men and women who were victimized by his actions for their wrongful convictions. Chicago taxpayers are paying out of pocket to settle these lawsuits against those who have gone to prison based on evidence from him. Are you is are there any state officials who are proposing a change in law to where you get rid of the statute of limitations for police officers because, again, I remember that other story, the heinous actions he was involved in. And look, we've seen

other Chicago police officers, and let's be honest, the police union, they're not friends of yours. They don't like progressive DAs because they protect cops like this one here. Yeah, it's been really hard to get movement legislatively around expanding statute of limitations for misconduct. And so we have

not seen that at all. I think there is an appetite from the taxpayer. You know, when this news hit yesterday, not a single reporter was surprised. If you've been following Detective Guevara for years, no one was like, oh, how could this happen? There's been this casual acceptance of this terrible behavior and this acceptance of paying out these payouts. Between Detective Guevara, Sergeant Watts, who was another Chicago police officer for whom we vacated over 200 convictions for shaking down residents of the IDB Wells public housing projects. And John Burge for torture. You know, city of Chicago, with others, have spent well over $500 million in the course of the last 10, 15 years on police misconduct cases. It is not financially sustainable for us to continue along this path. And the way that we hold police officers accountable is to make them actually accountable. If you have to pay out of your pocket, if you have to acquire insurance to do this work, if you are going to literally be held accountable by perhaps going to prison for your actions,

you are less likely to engage in that. And we have not had a robust system of accountability for police misconduct here in Illinois. That and that is so unfortunate. And look, last question, last point here that we have to deal with. This stuff like this is one of the reasons why residents in Chicago don't want to talk to cops, don't want to share information when it comes to wrongdoing. You mentioned the other. And look, we're talking white cops, Latino cops, black cops. So this ain't a white thing in Chicago because the white cop, I believe, African-American you're talking about. And so shaking folks down, not trusting. This is precisely why there's a level of mistrust in Chicago and why you have, you know, low rates of closing cases, because people can't trust who they're talking to. That's exactly right. You know, people try to

knock me. Why do you spend so much time going back on these cases? Because the neighborhoods most impacted by violence, Roland, have the least amount of trust in law enforcement. And it's not from some, like, made-up myth. It's because they know Sergeant Watts. It's because they know Reynaldo Guevara. It's because they know Burge. And so if I don't trust, when I pick up the phone, that I'm not going to get a corrupt cop, I'm just not going to pick up the phone. So this is righting the wrongs of the past, but it's also affirmative public safety measure to make sure that people can trust us

so when something harmful happens, they can call us. And so people try to separate public safety and justice reform. You cannot have public safety without meaningful justice reform, which is why I'm committed to doing this work while I'm here. And this is precisely why you were elected. You were reelected. People trust you in doing so. And this is why we got to have more DAs like you, because all too often, historically, you've had district attorneys who have refused to go back and look at cases. Craig Watkins did it in Texas. It's happened with other DAs.

And you right the wrongs of the past as opposed to protecting individuals who have done wrong. And so, State's Attorney Kim Foxx, always a pleasure. And again, I'm glad to see the people there in Cook County reelected you because they want to see restorative justice and it's needed. Thank you, Roland. Appreciate it. Bringing my panel right now, Robert Portillo, Executive Director, Rainbow Push Coalition Peachtree Street Project. Monique Pressley, legal analyst, host of Make It Make Sense with Monique Pressley.

Dr. Jason Nichols, senior lecturer, African African-American Studies Department, University of Maryland, College Park. Robin, I'm going to start with you. You're there in Atlanta. We've seen the same thing where you've had DAs going back and looking at cases. And this is also an example. Like I said to State's Attorney Kim Foxx, why people in neighborhoods where you have high crime, they just don't trust the police? You know, you're exactly right. You can go back to a Malcolm X speech from about 60 years ago where he says the neighborhoods that have the highest crime also have the highest levels of police presence. That doesn't make sense. What ends up happening is people lose all trust in police. You have

corruption, which runs rampant in these systems. You have absolutely no accountability. Police departments around the country and fraternal orders of police have realized that they can shake down public officials by simply not policing, allowing crime to go up, and therefore negating any efforts at criminal justice reform or police reform, which may take place. Not to sound like a broken record, but this is one of the reasons we have to end the practice of qualified immunity for police officers. Instead of them collecting a pension and waiting for the statute of limitations to run out, they should be able to be sued in their individualized capacity by the families and by the individuals that they have wrongly jailed. And they should be paying these settlements to the families, not the city, not the taxpayers, for their own individualized torts that they have

committed. This gives each individual officer an incentive that will force them to curtail their actions, because if you know you're going to lose your pension, lose your retirement, lose your home, lose your vacation home, lose your kids' college fund, lose your boat and your car and everything else, well, then maybe you won't commit some of these literally crimes against humanity that have been committed by officers around the country. So it's time that we take this issue of police reform seriously. We have individualized DAs and state's attorneys around the country. They are addressing it, whether it's Fannie Willis here in Atlanta, Marilyn Mosby was

doing such in Baltimore, Kim Fox, Letitia James and others. But at the end of the day, we need to have the legislative partners in state houses and the federal government around the country that are willing to give them the tools needed to bring bad cops to justice and to get some of these people who have been victims of this broken criminal justice system the type of relief that they deserve. You know, Monique, a lot of people, you hear these Republicans and conservatives attacking progressive DAs. You hear them talking about the George Soros-funded DAs. These are the type of DAs that we need in office.

The people who are not going to protect thuggish, rogue, corrupt cops. The people who are not going to protect their predecessors who sat on their asses and did nothing. This is the kind of folks we need in office because the public should be able to trust a police officer or a DA. And this is a damn shame here. The folks who spent all these years in prison who were innocent? Yes, these are the kinds of DAs that we need. And the real shame to me is that in our own communities, they do not get the support that they deserve.

That some of the most targeted attacks against these DAs that are running for office come from our own communities. And to the point of the Soros backing, if it's true, so what? That shouldn't be an attack because it should be the case that our own communities, that our legacy organizations, that our Greek letter organizations, that our municipal and local organizations are all putting our weight behind DAs that we know are going to be tough on crime they're supposed to, but not be tough on people who have been improperly charged, who have been falsely convicted, and doing things like Kim Fox has done and others regarding marijuana convictions and all those other things. We see the job that they're doing, but these attacks, frankly, come from within. There's no reason for people in power, white folks or whatever, to do anything, to lift a finger, to attack those

like the Kim Foxes of the world, the Marilyn Mosby's of the world, when within our own community and within our so-called progressive part of our community, we see the attacks from there that they have to answer. I mean, you look at the work that this woman is doing. Look at the press that she got over the Smollett case. Look at the kangaroo court that was allowed to come up and second-guess her decision-making, all that she had to withstand. Now, thankfully, that didn't keep her from being reelected, but it could have, and it would have been on us. It would have totally and completely been on us. So I agree with everything that Robert said, except I do believe that he conflated the need for us to get rid of the immunity protections. But I am not in favor of getting rid of statute of limitations.

I'm a defense lawyer at heart. And there is a reason why we have statute of limitations, because it is harder and harder with time to get the evidence that is necessary to charge a case properly and to convict properly. And prosecutors have a huge weight of discretion and they can go in there if they want to and get a grand jury to convict a piece of pizza. And so I want there to be protections in place such that you cannot wait 20, 30, 40 years to bring charges. And it shouldn't be, it can't be on a case by case basis where, oh, in this case, it's locked solid. We've got DNA. And, oh, in this case, we don't have that.

We have one blind witness who thinks maybe they saw it in an alley. No. There has to be. There have to be some regulations there. Because who will pay the penalty the most if we don't? Not these cops. It'll be our community. The thing here, Jason, for me, police officers, I'm sorry, there's a higher bar. And the reality is, and we often see this, and again, so many cases out of Chicago, John Burge and others, where these cops have gotten away because their shenanigans, their unlawful behavior, was found out years later. You know, it's interesting. A lot of these progressive prosecutors

have been criticized, particularly for property crimes that have happened recently, because if you look at the evidence, they charge as many violent crimes as their predecessors. They're not letting violent crime run wild. They're doing, whether it was Chesa Bowden, who got recalled, successfully recalled in San Francisco, Gascon, who is in L.A. in the process of a recall, and some of the other prosecutors, whether it's Kim Foxx or others, are always getting, they're saying, well, we've got all this violent crime out of control. But you look at other cities around those places. If you look, for example, in Sacramento, which has a really conservative DA,

and their murder rate shot up in 2020 and 2021. Same thing in other places, Tucson. You can name any city in California or on the western side of the country, they all saw spikes in murders. And these progressive prosecutors are charging those. I think it's more about what they're doing with crimes of need. And what they're trying to do is put them into diversion programs so that these kinds of things are looked at differently. You know, when you have... No, Jason, Jason, that's not what it is. What it is is you have white conservatives

who are attacking progressive DAs who want to lock up black and brown people. What you have is you have this attitude in America being tough on crime, on any crime. So they're going after Alvin Bragg in New York. They've been going after Marilyn Mosby. They went after Amos Ayala. They went after Kim Foxx. They've gone after Larry Krasner in Philadelphia. Because again, what we've had in this country is lock them up, throw away the key. If you're tough on a crime, that's

the way to solve it. And then the flip side is, or the other side is, give the cops more money, and that's going to solve our problem when actually that doesn't solve it either. That is the mindset of America, and that is a dangerous mindset. No, I'm in agreement. I don't think anything you said is different necessarily than what I was trying to get across. I apologize if I didn't get it across. I think, you know, again, I'm in between Robert and Monique here in the sense that, you know,

they're attorneys, I'm not, but I'm in between them. I don't think we should get rid of statute of limitations. I think one of the things that needs to happen is to look at them again. At least that was what I understood Kim Fox saying is that we should look

at the statute of limitations, particularly as it applies to law enforcement officers. And I agree with you, Roland, that it's more egregious for someone who the state is paying to enforce the law to then go ahead and break it. And these men are living their lives, you know, in prison and $46 million and $500 million over a decade is coming out of my pocket as a, as a taxpayer. And I'm paying this guy. I think it's, I think it's ridiculous. We need to look at that statute of limitations and that should come out of police pensions because they're the ones who committed the crime. Let them pay for it. Uh, Indeed. All right, folks, hold tight. One second, I've got to go to a break. We come back.

We're going to talk about these illegally gerrymandered districts, how black people, black voters are getting screwed because Republicans are using gerrymandering to freeze us out of political office. We'll explain when we come back

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Together, we are Black beyond measure. Next on The Black Table with me, Greg Carr. Succession. We're hearing that word pop up a lot these days as our country continues to fracture and divide. But did you know that that idea, essentially a breaking up of the USA, has been part of the public debate since long before and long after the Civil War,

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Hey, I'm Amber Stephens-West. Yo, what up, y'all? This is Jay Ellis, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, folks, midterm elections are happening in November. Premiers are still happening. We saw primary results last night. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar squeaked out a victory in the Democratic primary there in Minnesota, winning by a little more than 2,000 votes over a former black city councilman in Minneapolis.

You also saw Milwaukee elect a black woman as sheriff on the Democratic side. We should be having two more black members of Congress in November in Alabama and Louisiana. But federal courts have stopped those who are going forward. In fact, federal judges rule that there was racial discrimination in the drawing of those districts by Republicans in those states. In fact, you have Republicans right now with four illegal maps, Alabama, Ohio, Georgia, and Louisiana. All of that impacts, again, voting rights and the power of black voters. Michael Lee, senior counsel at the Brennan Center for Justice, joined us from New York City. And Michael, always glad to have you and the Brennan Center on the show. We appreciate the work that y'all are doing out there to fight these very issues. We literally are talking about the disenfranchisement of Black voters all across the country, but definitely in these southern states.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, the population of the Black population of the U.S. grew by 2.3 million people last decade, and two-thirds of that growth was in the South.S. grew by 2.3 million people last decade, and two-thirds of that growth was in the South. And yet when new maps were drawn, there really were no new opportunities for black voters created. In fact, in states like Georgia, you actually go backwards. Lucy McBath's seat essentially gets eliminated, and she's forced to run next door in a different district. And as you mentioned, in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, there were lawsuits that seeking to create additional black opportunity districts in Louisiana, in Alabama, Georgia, all three states. Court said that there needed to be additional districts. But all of that has been put on hold while the Supreme Court takes up these cases. And

as a result, black voters will not see any improvement in the 2022 midterms, despite the rapid black growth in the South. Well, and the crazy part is the federal judge in Louisiana ruled that was enough time to redraw because their primary actually isn't until election day in November. They have a jungle primary. And so there was more than enough time. And what Republicans did was they waited, Michael. They waited in a lot of these states the last second to pass the maps so the court could say, ah, sorry, not enough time to actually redraw them. In Louisiana, it was way more than enough time, but they still stopped the clock. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's remarkable. And, you know, you mentioned Ohio. Ohio, similarly, you know, the state Supreme Court struck down the map. The Ohio Registry Commission reenacted a very discriminatory map, in this case, politically discriminatory map. And there just wasn't enough time to bring new challenges to that because of the way it works in Ohio. As a court can strike down a map, it can't put in place its own map. It's really sort of a handicapped reform.

But you're absolutely right. You know, there absolutely was enough time. Even in Alabama, there was plenty of time to redraw the map for a primary. You might have to move the primary date a little bit, but there's plenty of time to redraw the map. And yet courts have put a hold on this. And it really is remarkable because none of these rulings, especially in the South, was very controversial. The law in this area is very clear. In Alabama, the three-judge panel that struck down the map included two Trump appointees, so hardly a radical panel at all. And they issued a 200-plus page opinion that said, hey, Alabama needs to have

two Black districts out of the seven, which will be roughly proportional to the Black population of Alabama. And yet, you know, despite the fact that they, you know, these two Trump appointees said that you need to create a, you know, a second Black district, and you did so unanimously, right? You know, this three judge panel did so unanimously, all three of the appointees said that you need to create a second black district and did so unanimously, right? You know, this three-year panel did so unanimously, all three of the appointees are Republican appointees. The Supreme Court stepped in and put a hold on this. And as a result, you know, not only will black voters not have a new district in Alabama this cycle, it's potentially possible the Supreme Court will gut what remains of the Voting Rights Act because there's just too much attention being paid to race and, you know,

like, giving black voters just a little bit more of a seat at the table. Not, you know, not a whole lot more, just a little bit more seat at the table seems to be too much for some people. And the problem that we have here is this Supreme Court absolutely with now six hardcore

conservatives on the court and the so-called, you know, moderate to conservative voices, Justice John Roberts, who was the one who gutted the Voting Rights Act Section 4 and Shelby V. Holder somehow believing, oh, everything is now great. No need to have oversight. And of course, you know, Clarence Thomas don't give a damn about black people. He's been wanting to get rid of the Voting Rights Act from day one. Yeah, I think this is a very scary time because this is a court that in a lot of ways, it bears mentioning that the court is going to hear the Alabama case on October 4th.

On October 31st, it's going to hear affirmative action cases out of Harvard and the University of North Carolina. So there's going to be a lot of race on the table. And I think for a lot of the justices, or at least a lot, the concern is that for a lot of the justices, they seem to believe that we're in a post-racial world where we really don't need to think about race that much. And that's a very scary place to be because, as I said, you know, Black voters are underrepresented in the South. You know, they're really, you know, black voters are punching below their weight because of the way that these maps are purposely designed to break up black communities and to disadvantage black voters. And yet, you know, the courts seem to not really care. And that's a very disturbing place

for us to be in 60 years after passage of the voting rights act. And Michael, and the last point here, one, the Supreme Court has already said, oh, we can't rule on political gerrymandering, leave it up to the states. Well, if you've already politically gerrymandered the state districts, then guess what? They then control the legislature and control the state Supreme Court, so you're screwed. And so really the only thing left to combat gerrymandering really is race. They were effective in North Carolina when they got that struck down because of racial

gerrymandering. And so that's what we are facing. But unfortunately, this Supreme Court doesn't even give a damn about that. And so what then does the future look like? Are we going to be stuck with black folks, Latinos packed into districts in order to ensure white conservative lawmakers remain in power? You know, I think that that's a that's a real concern because, you know, the reason all of this, of course, is going on is the South is changing.

Right. You know, the people of color are increasingly effective in winning elections. Georgia is a prime example of that. And, you know, last year in the Senate races and also the presidential race, it's Black voters and Latino voters are becoming increasingly powerful. And that scares the people because it challenges the status quo. And I think you're seeing that, you know, Unfortunately, the court has really messed up the jurisprudence. You mentioned the partisan gerrymandering, really, the green-lighted partisan gerrymandering. But now what you're seeing in the South is people defending racially discriminatory maps on the basis that, oh, well, we were just discriminated against Democrats. And lo and behold, they happen to be Black and Latino, but we weren't discriminated against

because of their race. We were discriminated against because they're Democrats. And you, the Supreme Court, have said that that's okay. And that is like a bad place to be if the Supreme Court and courts are not willing to closely delve into and try to parse out the difference between race and politics. You know, if they just are very superficial, states may get away with a lot of pretextual justifications. And it may turn out that the decision greenlighting partisan gerrymandering really greenlighted a lot of racial discrimination as well. Indeed. Michael Lee with the Brennan Center. We really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Indeed. Jason, I want to start with you. You know, it's amazing when I hear these people say, oh, Roland, you're always talking about voting. Voting not going to solve anything. So I'm always trying to connect the dots. I believe you got to walk folk through the facts and connect the dots. Folks, this is real simple. If you don't vote, if we also as black people don't maximize our vote, then we are guaranteeing what Michael just talked about. We're guaranteeing the Republicans will be able to

keep controlling state legislatures with super majorities. And not just the state legislature, Governor's Mansion. Not just Governor's Mansion, county commissioners. Not just county commissioners, city councils, school boards, the people who control the curriculum, the State Board of Education, all state offices.

And so the reason I am so adamant about black people voting is that we maximize our numbers. And if white voters stay here and we go here, then all of a sudden we're over-indexing and then we're greatly impacting these races. We have seen when black people turn out in record numbers. The reason Obama won North Carolina in 2008, he won by 14,100 votes because black people were voting like crazy in various cities and towns.

And what I keep arguing, Jason, stop waiting for a black savior to be on the ballot. What has to happen is we've got to understand that our communities are being shorted with resources, we're being shorted with public policy because we are not fully maximizing our voting strength. Yeah, I have some close friends of mine who are very active in the community, and they oftentimes, you know, we debate and they often say, oh, well, I'm not going to vote. You know, voting doesn't really make a difference. And my response

is, if voting didn't make a difference, they wouldn't put so many obstacles in the way of Black people voting. It obviously does matter. It obviously does make a difference. And for people, you know, some of my friends who may be watching who were against police brutality, of course, Kim Fox was elected. Of course, the sheriff in your county oftentimes is an elected position. These are positions. so you have law enforcement offices that are actually elected that are on your ballot. So I think we should pay attention not only to national politics, but also to local politics and realize the power in our vote. It's certainly, we can talk about Congress and Senate and president. Those are real sexy votes. But a lot of times your school board, when they're trying to change the curriculum and they're trying to change and take, you know, slavery, you know, the word slave trade out and make it involuntary, you know, immigration or whatever they're trying to call it. You know, you actually, first of all, can vote for somebody who will make a difference there

and make sure that the curriculum is fair for all children. And the other thing that I tell my students is you don't have to wait for a savior. You can run for office. That's also something you can do. There are state delegates, there are, you know, county commissions, there are all these kinds of elections that you don't have to wait for somebody else to do the job. You can actually do that and take initiative and make your community better.

You know, again, when we're talking about maximizing, Robert, I go back to when Harold Washington was elected in Chicago. You literally had 85 to almost 90 percent of black turnout. And it was interesting because Harold Washington, Congressman Harold Washington, challenged Lou Palmer and others by saying, oh, register X number of folks, and then I'll run. Then they went out and did it. He was like, damn, I guess I got to run. And so then he wins the Democratic primary, and all these white folks in Chicago

didn't want to see a black mayor, and they voted for the Republican, and he barely won in the primary. But the only reason Harold Washington was elected, Congressman Harold Washington was elected, was because of that maximum black voter turnout. You heard me talk about what happened in Florida. If you had maximum turnout, Broward and Miami-Dade County, Andrew Gillum would have been mayor,

excuse me, would have been governor. He lost about 30,000 votes. If you saw maximum turnout in Georgia, Stacey Abrams would have been elected, even with the shenanigans of then Secretary of State Brian Kemp. We have seen the examples of this. Now, it requires, Robert, it requires candidates to be speaking to black voters, black women and black men. It requires them having an agenda. But what I want our people to do is to stop being some folks stuck on stupid and sitting on the sidelines and then complaining about,

we don't have this, we don't have that, we don't have this. You can't get anything you want unless it comes through public policy, which means you've got to have the policymakers representing and presenting the public policy. The first day of a first freshman year political science class, the first thing they tell you is that politics answers the question of who gets what when. And so if you're not involved in the political process, when you're talking about governmental resources, when you're talking about zoning, when you're talking educational policy, when you're talking about where that new hospital is going to go or where that new freeway is going to exist at, what areas will be policed and what areas will be allowed to decay.

That all is a political question that will be answered by the vote. I want to go back to something that you guys were talking about with regard to the Supreme Court. Let's understand that this is a state's right Supreme Court. It's not that they think we're in a post-racial world. They are afraid that we are entering a post-racial world, and therefore they are trying to turn back the clock as much as possible. As we get to that singularity point where white people become just one of the various minorities in the country, they want to remove all the protections of the civil rights movement, all the protections of the New Deal through something called the Interstate Commerce Clause. They want to remove the federal government's ability to regulate individualized activity, particularly

individualized discrimination, and then on the other hand, remove any programs that exist and any policies that exist would seek to even the playing field for minorities. This is going to happen. This is not fear-mongering. This is not a guess. All they need is a case and controversy to be on the Supreme Court docket for them to overturn this. Therefore, we have to be prepared for that moment. We have to be prepared for that moment. We have to be prepared for the new paradigm that we are entering into. And right now, I think we are woefully behind because we need to be putting together the apparatus to attack things on the state and local level instead of focusing on the federal government, because the battle for the

next decade of American history will happen at the state and local level. And that's going to involve record numbers of voter registration, record numbers of get-out-the-vote campaigns, because if you're looking at a state like Georgia, where it's 35 percent African-Americans, 20 percent Latino, 15 percent, around 10 to 15 percent Asian-American, 52 percent women, that state should be a solidly blue state. Why does it vote red? Why is it all of the statewide elected officials are Republicans? Because of voter suppression, because of a lack of organization on the statewide level.

We need to prepare for that and know that this is the battle that is coming. We often get blindsided by things that are very, very obviously down the pipeline, and that's what we need to be preparing for now. Well, Monique, there are people like Black Voters Matter. They understand this. They've been articulating this, not just focusing on congressional federal races, but also those critical statewide and local races. Absolutely. And all politics are local. You know, we say that because it is true. But yes, Black Voters Matter Fund, other organizations that are similar to it, even campus voter organizations. I spoke with a student from one yesterday, and they all know that the things that matter most to us, it's not that these federal elections don't matter.

Obviously, they do, because we can see all of the damage that was done at the federal level from the last administration. But the local level also matters, and you will find that it matters sooner and longer. So I commend all of the efforts of organizations such as BVM, local and national. They work, obviously. They partner with other organizations. It's not that they are a central organization that does all the work. They fund organizations that are on the ground that are demonstrating doing the work. And I believe that it's making a difference. We've seen such great results so far, especially in the Southern Belt. And I expect for that to

continue. I'm rooting for it to continue in my home state of Texas, personally. All right. Hold tight one second. When we come back, folks, we're going to talk with a woman who's been in a legal battle with social media cook Darius Cooks. There's a hashtag called Darius Crooks. There's been a lot of back and forth. They were in court yesterday. We'll talk to her and find out what actually happened in court.

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Or you have these customized feather pocket squares. My sister does an amazing job with those. There are some great clients who have been blessed with those. And so all you got to do is go to rollerlessmartin.com forward slash pocket squares. Yeah, Monique, trust me. You can go ahead and get that, too, for your son. Trust me. It'll look good.

So step and look up, folks. Don't keep it plain. Don't just get that boring white pocket square or silk. Go ahead and have some color, have some flair, and have some swagger. Again, go to RolandSMartin.com forward slash pocket squares. All of our fan club members, you get a discount. So be sure to go to the website and make it happen.

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Right now. You are watching Roland Martin. Unfiltered. I mean, could it be any other way? Really. It's Roland Martin. Folks, Nina Liskam. Nina Liskam has been missing for quite some time.

Folks, the Coweta County, Georgia Sheriff deputies are searching for her. She's 82 years old. She has early stage Alzheimer's disease. Ms. Liskum went missing Tuesday between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m. She was last seen wearing a black shirt, pajama pants, and black house shoes. Anyone with information on Anita Liskum should call the Coweta County, Georgia Sheriff's Office. The number, folks, is 770-254-3911. 770-254-3911.

All right, folks. So we told you about this story that, you know, it's been talked about on social media. All this back and forth between people who have purchased goods and services and with Chef Darius Cooks. Well, then you have this legal drama. So he got a temporary restraining order, tried to get one against someone who he said was targeting him, was stalking him,

and so they've gone back and forth with court delays this month. Well, they actually had a court hearing just the other day, and he lost. My next guest was the one who's been going back and forth in court with him. She joins us right now to let us know exactly what took place. Mel Ford, how you doing? I'm doing great, thanks for having me. All right, so y'all had this legal battle, this back and forth. He's been, we talked about it before, where, you know, y'all had, you were supporting him previously, but then he was highly critical of you, highly critical of some things that you said about him and now all of a sudden. I've lost you, Owen. No, we're still here. We have you. We have you and I see you. We have you.

Okay, go ahead. Sorry. So what actually happened in court where he accused you of stalking? Well, in short, he lost. He could not prove the prominence of the evidence. It was a frivolous case in the beginning, but in short, he lost. And Darius Williams did appear in court. And so one of the things that happened there in court where video was also shown, your attorneys, his attorneys were there, and so there were statements that were made in court

where video contradicted what he actually said happened. Absolutely. This has been an ongoing situation with Harris. He has a habit of saying things that aren't true. He continues to this very day. After losing, he went on one format, YouTube, I believe, a two-hour rant, waving papers, showing his laptop playing police video cam, frothing at the mouth, you know, about everything that he tried to present in court and presented in court that didn't help him. I've always said, Roland, one of the things that's really disturbing about the situation

is you have someone who seemingly had some talent, but this gentleman has taken, and I use that term very loosely, a snippet of facts sometimes, and he distorts it, and we have a community of people who are followers because of a macaroni and cheese recipe or a funny video. And he says all these destructive things, and it's really a shame. It's really harmful. One of the reasons why you have continued battling this, because you said this is about clearing your name as a result of what has been said about you and how you and your husband are now seen on social media as a result. Absolutely. It's been really, really challenging.

You know, without repeating a lot of the disgusting things that he has said, he just continues to go after me, go after my husband. But again, he has a habit of going after anyone that presents facts and that refutes his bad behavior. And these things are his own fault. We are still waiting. And if you recall last time, this started back in 2016. This man, because I said, listen, I see your behavior. I don't want to have anything to do with your book club and said it nicely and privately. He went online and told people that he had dismayed from the book club as a result of finding out and tracing my IP address and determined that I was the one who was sending him hate mail and death threats via email. Now, we've not seen any of that, and you won't see it because it never happened. What he does continue to do is to play a 2016 voicemail message from me in which I say, good morning, and I ask him, I don't know why you can't be mature,

why are you doing this? And said what I had to say and then got annoyed. And then I think I used an expletive maybe once, perhaps twice, but he thinks that clears him. It doesn't. It's beyond me and beyond comprehension for me why he tends to do the things that he does. And I've got to wrap my brain around, I probably never will understand because it is a fool

that tries to rationalize irrational behavior. And this man is irrational. I truly believe he's deeply disturbed. He presents normal. But, you know, this may be a stretch, but so did Jeffrey Dahmer. I mean, people thought Jeffrey was just quiet and working at the candy factory, and little did anybody know Jeffrey was at home eating people. I know that's a lot, but I feel similar to Darius Williams, Darius Cooks. He presents this, he has moments where he presents this funny and engaging individual, but cross him or for him to feel cross, he's going to create a

narrative or attempt to create a narrative where he is right, you are wrong, and he doesn't care what you say. If you recall, this man has gone so low as to put underage children online, and just because their mother came after them about his bad business practices. He has gone after celebrities like Sonny Anderson, other people. He's just relentless. But he made a mistake this time. He thought that he was going to file this fake TPO and put it out there for the world to see. And I was going to be the butt of his joke. And the first time he put it out there, he didn't even bother to show up for court.

My attorney and I said, no, we don't want to dismiss. We do not, because he had also given a Texas address. And so that was one of the things that the judge was, you know, considering. And so when they called him and said, hey, why aren't you here? He attempted to blame the court. And so another date was set. And then, you know, the date has been moved so many times because of some things that could not be helped, but one in particular because of a lie that he told. He claimed that he had to work. He didn't work on the particular court date.

But nevertheless, the good thing about it, and I appreciate you allowing me to be rather long-winded, but the good thing is that, you know, we prevailed yesterday. All the facts were laid out and there were four components of the TPO that the judge considered. He lost on all four. So is this the end of this legal battle? Are you looking at pursuing anything else against Darius Williams? You know, a good poker player never tips their hand. I will say what I prefer to do is to live my life and go on about my business and enjoy my good life and put these kind of things behind me. He, even today and yesterday after his loss, again, he went on one platform, this extremely long rant. You have his followers that say things like, you know, well, let me know where she is. I'll take care of her.

I've seen followers say she needs two in the head. I've seen followers say, you know, well, because he's put our address out there. He's put a link to my husband's job, my husband's full name. He continues to dox my email address. I think one of your guests that are here this evening has had a rough encounter or uncomfortable encounter with Darius. This is just who he is. And so while I want to say, yes, this should be the end of it and go on about my business, it is not a comfortable situation when you have someone put a link to your husband's job and you see your husband's face. And then it's him saying the vile things that he does that I

really have a problem with repeating because it's pretty disgusting. But that's what he does. And unfortunately, it's tricky. You have you have he has First Amendment rights. And so there's due process that one would have to go through. And when you're doing defamation and things like that, you have to be able to prove, you know, what are your losses? And it's a challenge. I've been blessed enough to couple with Senator Sonia Helton here, who we're hoping to get legislation in January to add doxing and making it illegal in Georgia, because this is crazy. There's no good reason for anyone to publish your address. I don't care if it is public record, but there's no reason for someone to go seek that information out to publish your address. I don't care if it is public record, but there's no reason for someone to go seek that information out and publish your phone number, social security number,

address, place of employment with malicious intent. He's only doing it because he fires up his fan base to allow them. And that's the really sad part about it, Rowan. You have individuals who are sitting behind a keyboard. And primarily, his demographic is a certain age of Black women, our own community, who sit behind a keyboard. And they don't know me, who are willing to type things like, she needs two in the head. He made up over the July 4th weekend that my husband had left me. It's a total lie. And one woman typed, I prayed and God fixed it. I don't know what Bible she's reading, but the last one that I read, God hates divorce. And so you have all these horrible things and he's tapped into a cesspool. And this is what they enjoy.

Well, certainly we'll see what happens next. Hopefully the back and forth ceases and then you and your husband can go on with your life and theirs can go on with his life. He was invited several times to appear on this show the last several months, declined to do so.

And so, if he wants to talk, he can always return email. Melody's for it. We appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Alright, folks, let's talk about another court case, well, another deposition legal matter, and that is,

of course, dealing with Donald Trump. Today, old Donald was actually sitting across from New York Attorney General Letitia James. Of course, they are investigating the Trump Organization for lying about the value of their property, engaging in tax fraud, insurance fraud, and violating banking laws. Now, he sat for four hours. Now, y'all, Donald Trump been fighting this thing for a long, long time,

and they kept losing in court. He had to finally sit down, and for four hours, all he did was plead the Fifth. But didn't he once say this about pleading the Fifth? It'll be on the site soon. Don't worry. I'mma let you...

You see, the mob takes the Fifth. Don't worry. I'mma scam you, I'mma... You see, the mob takes a... Don't worry, I'mma scam you soon. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment? All right, play the right video. You see, the mob takes a... If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment? You see, the mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?

That's a good question, Donald. If you're innocent, why in the hell would you plead for the Fifth for four hours? Tish James showed up for this deposition, Monique, and sat across from him the entire time. You know they had to pain him to have to look at a black woman for four hours who's been breathing down his neck, who he's been trashing left and right. And so, if you're innocent, why you plead the fifth? It's his right, but she's not giving up

on trying to get to the bottom of the Trump Organization. Monique? Right. So there's plenty of reasons why, if you're innocent, you would still plead the Fifth. He was ignorant when he made the statement. He wasn't ignorant today when he followed his lawyer's advice and asserted his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination.

You have to be very specific about that, though. So it would have to be true that there is an investigation afoot or a very real chance that you could be exposed to criminal sanctions or criminal liabilities if you answer the questions. So there will be an adverse inference against him. That's the way the law works. If this moves forward and it goes to trial, then the fact that he refused to answer will, his right to remain silent will, in a civil case, be used against him. But I'm sure he did the only thing that he could do, not just because of the precarious nature of the questions that he was being asked, but because his lawyers know that he loves a lie. He lies like he breathes. And so him asserting his Fifth Amendment rights meant he doesn't get to answer a question, which means he doesn't add perjury to the potential charges that could be filed against him.

So all in all, whatever lawyers he found for this, they did the best they could by him. And I am certain that that bison, Tish James, will keep going. Robert. You know, I find it interesting, particularly in this case, because if you look at the last two weeks for Donald Trump, it reads like something out of a Shonda Rhimes show. You know, a couple of weeks ago, your ex-wife falls down the stairs. You bury her on your golf course. Then after that, your house in Florida gets raided by the FBI. Then a couple of days later, you're sitting down for a deposition in New York for your other criminal case. At the same time, your other criminal case in Georgia, there's subpoenas being issued for Rudy Giuliani, your former lawyer, and for Lindsey Graham. You can't make this kind of stuff up. I think that's

why you don't have shows like Scandal and House of Cards on TV anymore, because reality has become far more absurd than anything that a writer could put into one of them. I think that Donald Trump, the reason he took the fifth because he had to take the fifth, there was absolutely no benefit to him for testifying. The only thing he would do is put himself in a place where he will commit perjury, either knowingly or accidentally. And quite frankly, I'm glad that he finally got himself some real lawyers. I want people who still believe in this stop the steal stuff to notice something. The lawyers that Donald Trump was using to go around the country to challenge all the elections, the TV lawyers,

the Rudy Giuliani's, et cetera, they're not here for the actual criminal cases. The reason is he understands that you need a real lawyer because he might land his ass in jail. So he went out there and hired some real people, not the cartoon lawyers that he had previously. So these are important things to watch. We're going to see these develop going forward. But these prosecutors are not playing with them. He

understands that, and the chances of jail time go up with each case. The idea that he will get free of all of these cases, he's not Frank Underwood. Some of these are going to come home to roost on him. Jason Bombline here. Here's a man. He lies about lies.

And look, in the fact of the fact, this fool, he's lied about the value of his property. He lies to tout it. Then he lies, and by lowering it for tax reasons, they got the goods on his ass and they know it, and I can't wait till this thing goes to trial.

Yeah, I think the evidence is overwhelming. I don't, you know, from what I've read, I don't think Tish James actually needs him to make a statement, and I think, you know, it's possible that some of these other people are going to, you know, do the speaking for him. Was it Goldblatt? I'm forgetting the gentleman's name. At any rate, and Michael Cohen, I think, gave a lot of evidence in that particular case. I think that one of the things about Trump

is I know it pained him to take the fifth. I think he wanted to talk because he thinks he can outsmart people. And so, you know, for his personality, for him to have to remain silent and not, you know, with the hubris that he has and the ego that he has, and to sit across from a Black woman

and know that she has him in checkmate, I think frustrated him to no end. This is why, of course, he went right after that deposition and went and, you know, released this long, prepared statement that I'm not sure he prepared, but I'm sure he had some input on it, because I think it pained him to know he's being outsmarted, to know that he really had nothing to say. He couldn't retort back. He was president when it would have been best for him to stay quiet, but he had to talk. So I think, you know, pretty much his lawyers twisted his arm for his benefit. And that's why he pleaded the fifth. Robert? I think Jason is absolutely correct on that. I think going forward, we're going to see him being held, hauled before more

and more DAs for depositions. He'll be hauled into trial. I think that Republicans are delusional on this idea that Donald Trump is somehow going to run for president in 2024 and especially win the presidency in 2024. This concept is foreign. And I think this is what makes the raid on Mar-a-Lago even more significant, because people are saying, well, this is just a ploy to stop him from running in 2024. No, this is because he's committed so many crimes that there are no longer any places to hide them. The real question is going to be whether or not Trump flees the country before 2024, not whether or not he runs for president in 2024. Absolutely. I just love the fact That He finally has to Sit down He fights these things left and right

And now it happens He did issue a long statement I don't really give a shit, I'm not going to read it Alright, so let's go to our next story Sesame Place says it is expanding Its diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts Following a class action lawsuit Alleging racial bias.

This is after a black family accused Sesame Place Philadelphia character, a performer of racial discrimination. The family says employees dressed as Sesame Street characters only interacted with white visitors during a meet-and-greet event. By the end of September, all Sesame Place employees will undergo training and education programs led by national experts. Sesame Place, the parent company

of SeaWorld Parks Entertainment, they did release the following statement laying out terms of their initiatives and what it is they are trying to do. And said the racial equity assessment will include a review of policies, processes, and practices that impact guests, employees, suppliers, and the community to identify opportunities for improvement.

This is what we call, Robert, quickly try to save your ass. Oh, there's nothing like a lawsuit to get people acting right. It's not like you ain't know these people are racist when you hired them, but you didn't care until that lawsuit showed up. And the power of video in American society today

cannot be underestimated, because if this was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and you said, well, I went to the park and the Sesame Street characters didn't pay attention to any of the black children, people would just say you were crazy or you're being too sensitive and this, that, and the other. But seeing it on video, seeing these little children excited to interact with these characters, and they walk directly past them and literally scoot past them to go play with the white children, there's no way for them to deny what is going on. And the fact that it was multiple children and multiple videos over a period of time means that they understand that there will more than likely be civil culpability for the company.

This will settle out of court. And they're trying to preemptively put into these policies to make sure that if it does go to trial, there won't be punitive damages that could be trouble what the actual damages are. So they're working on saving face right now because they understand if they go before a jury, they need to be able to say, look, these were individual incidents with individual performers. We have put policies in place to stop it from happening in the future in order to prevent those punitive damages. We saw this in the Steve Bannon case, where the actual damages were $4 million, and then the punitive damages were close to $50 million. That's what they're afraid of. Absolutely. And they're afraid of having to pay up, like eight Minnesota correction officers are about to get paid. They're going to split $1.5 million.

The settlement took place after they were not being permitted to have any contact with Derek Chauvin when he arrived at the Ramsey County Adult Detention Center, a facility in May of 2020. The six men and two women say they were ordered, along with other people of color, to the third floor of the jail and prohibited from going to the fifth floor where Chauvin was. They was housed.

The complaint says Superintendent Steve Leighton issued a segregation order. The plaintiffs, who are all black, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, American, and multiracial, believe Leighton did not trust them to carry out their responsibilities because of their race. According to the lawsuit, Leighton denied being racist and defended his decision to implement the order. Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher admitted he did not investigate the issue. Well, that's pretty stupid, Monique, if you're this county and you don't investigate. And he goes, oh, I'm not racist, but I took all the people of color off from doing this.

What he's basically saying is, if you're not white, you might want to take out Derek Chauvin. Yeah, I'm just not certain what the injury is here. What do you mean? Well, in terms of

remedy, when you sue, you sue because you want to get money. Either you got demoted when you shouldn't have, you got fired when you shouldn't have been, you got less money than you were supposed to get. And some people were prevented from having the responsibility of securing a racist murderer. And if anything happened to him, then we know it couldn't have been them because they were kept away from it.

But that's just my way of looking at it. Maybe they wanted to be responsible for the care and protection and safety of Derek Chauvin. I don't know. But the fact that there was some sort of discriminatory intent with respect to what the warden did in this case is not landing all the way to a jury verdict for me because where's the harm?

Well, where's the harm if you work for your corrections officer and you're there to do a job, and the warden assumes because of your race, you can't do the job, so therefore I'm going to pull you off, and I'm only going to have white police officers,

how is that not harm? That's just like if you're a cop. No, I'm not saying it's not wrong. I'm saying you have to prove harm. Like, were they harmed by it? Yeah, they were. Was money lost? And feelings, I'm kidding about that

because obviously you don't get paid for that. But was there trauma? Was there complex trauma? I mean, I'll pitch to Robert here because he loves cases like this. What you got to say, Robert? And he should. Hold up. First of all, I host this show. So I'm going to go to Jason. I somehow knew you were going to remind me. Your name being all over it wasn't going to remind me. I got you.

But you don't determine who gets tossed to next. Jason. Okay. Go to whoever you want to go to, boy. I-I-I am Jason. Yeah, I'm... To me, it seems like when you question my integrity and professionalism, uh, that-that's harm. You know, I think about it. If you were like, you can only teach Black students,

you're-you're... you can't teach white students. Uh, I-I would feel harmed by that. Even if I didn't lose money, I didn't lose opportunities. If you tell me I can only teach one people or if I'm only qualified or you only trust me to teach one group of people, I would consider that, you know, you know, something that harmed me, particularly when it's done by my superior. I also have never heard of, you know, a situation where a Black person in custody was only handled by Black people because, you know, they thought that White people

were not professional enough to do the job. I think, you know, I... You know, again, I'm not the attorney here, but I certainly, you know, I, you know, again, I'm not the attorney here, but I certainly, you know, can see how somebody would feel that that was not a fair decision, particularly when these are professionals. This is their job. They deal with murders and sex offenders and all kinds of things that would offend anyone. You know, you're guarding a child molester. Who doesn't that offend? But they don't sit there and say, well, no, you can't guard this person because you have children. You know, so to me, it makes sense that they should get, you know, there should be a policy change.

And that they should get, you know, there should be a policy change and that they should get some compensation for this. Robert? I think we have to look at the conceptualization of damages in the law, which is that when you plead a case, it can't simply be the question of if there was a harm, if there was an injury. You have to show pecuniary damages that took place as a result. As Monique said, whether or not you, loss of opportunity, loss of employment, loss of overtime, for example, is a good example. They can prove that, well, I would have done X, Y, Z additional hours and therefore I should be compensated for that loss of opportunity. That can also be a cognizable set of damages to justify a settlement. I haven't read the case,

but I would assume there'll be something along the lines of the reasoning of intentional affliction, emotional distress, career stagnation, anything that you can do to show that you lost money or somehow were injured by this, that can be the basis of damages going forward. So if you look at the settlement amount, you're talking about $1.5 million split between eight people taking out attorney's fees for that. So it wasn't some sort of massive amount of money that these officers are getting. But I think it's more important to send this message to law enforcement that they cannot simply say, well, we can't trust the black folks around this racist because one of them might kill him and then cover it up, something along those lines. I don't think that is appropriate

in any context. And this lawsuit is more so the court making an example out of these people, not enriching somebody, but sending a message to the entire law enforcement apparatus that this is not appropriate going forward. And how about this here? How about just simply let folks do their jobs and you don't remove them because of their rates. How about that? That's kind of basic to me. That's what you should do. It is basic.

So guess what? If you're the taxpayers in that particular county, you should be pissed off at that sheriff and that corrections officer for costing you a million five for being a dumbass. So, guess what? That's what you got. All right, folks, got to go to a break right now.

We come back more on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Don't forget, if you are on YouTube or Facebook, please be sure to hit the like button. We want you to check us out. We also, of course, want you to impact, as we always try to do, impact the algorithm as much as we can. And so, we appreciate all of your support. Those of you, of course, who are watching the show,

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Cash App is dollar sign RM, unfiltered. PayPal is R Martin, unfiltered. PayPal is RMartin Unfiltered. Venmo is RM Unfiltered. Zelle is Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. We'll be right back. I challenge myself as an artist knowing that I'm going to challenge the audience. Oftentimes you come into this business off of one project where everybody's like,

ooh, ooh, you stand out. For me it was Barbershop, Ricky, da-da-da-da-da-da. Ricky was nothing like me, right? Nothing like me growing up. But if that's people's first experience with you, right? As an audience member, they tend to think that's the real you, right? So, you know, for me, after that,

I got a whole bunch of offers to play roles just like Ricky, right? This Tupac-esque type of, type of thug, right? And I just said no over and over again. And then you keep trying to do other things. And then I went through a series of romantic movies and romantic leads and, you know, I always try to bring some sort of gravitas to those roles.

And then it was like, okay, well, but before I get into all of that, let me hit y'all with, you know, for color girls and, you know, step outside of the realm of, you know, what you expect of me to do as an audience member in terms of being this romantic lead and everything. Because I didn't get into this business to be the romantic lead, you know, that dude. Like I didn't get into this business to be the romantic lead, you know, that dude.

Like, I didn't get into this business. Because you can get locked in. You can totally get locked in. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are black beyond measure. Folks, the book White Fear is here. My newest book. Folks, kill the music, please.

My newest book is here, y'all. Finally, I break down what is happening in this country with our politics and how really the brownie of America is what's causing the fundamental shift. You're seeing this in politics, in economics. It's playing out before our very eyes. Remember, January 6th, Trump was pissed off at what happened in four places where black people dominate. Atlanta, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, as well as Detroit. That's what they were so upset when it came to the election.

And so we break down this issue of white fear and what must be done to overcome it. And so, again, the title, White Fear, How the Brown of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds. You definitely do not want to miss it. It drops September 13th. You can preorder the book right now. All of these places, Ben Bella Books, the publisher, also Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, Bookshop, Chapters, Books A Million, and Target as well. So you can check all of those out.

You can order the book in North America, United States, and Canada as well. And the book is going to be available on Audible as well. So let's get our pre-orders in. Get the book, White Fear, today. When we invest in ourselves, we're investing in what's next for all of us. Growing.

Creating. Making moves. That move us all forward. Together, we are black beyond measure. Hi, I'm Vivian Green. Hi, I'm Wendell Pierce, actor and author of The Wind in the Reeds. Hey, yo, peace world. What's going on?

It's the love king of R&B, Raheem Devon, and you're watching Roland Martin, Unfiltered. All right. The purpose of our Tech Talk is to show you some great apps that can help you in your daily living. And so my next guest has an app that can actually help you when it comes to the right products for your hair texture. That's right. Of course, let's talk to Maivana. Users take a picture of their hair and end up with a personalized hair care routine for their specific hair type. Joining us right now is the co-founder and CEO of Maivana, Candice Mitchell-Hair. First of all,

am I pronouncing it correct? Yes, that's correct. All right. Candice Jones is from Los Angeles. All right. So, okay. How'd you come up with this idea? Well, I was in college and I was going natural and I couldn't find the right products to use for my hair. And I was asking my friends and it was pretty much so much trial and error. And I thought to myself, you know, there should be an app that can take variables of your hair and recommend the right products to use. And that's from my background as a computer scientist. And so I started the research of hair and created MyAvana. Okay. So the process is you take a picture of your hair

and then what happens? So we actually use AI technology to break down the true texture and type of your hair because as women of color, we have the greatest texture variety out of any ethnicity in the world and which makes our hair care experience, you know, sometimes kind of challenging. And so the photo actually breaks down your true hair ID when you do an analysis using our hair analysis kit as well. And the recommended products are actually what's compatible for your unique hair type and texture. Now, is it just for women or is it also for men?

So we can analyze anyone's hair. So primarily our customers have been women, but there are a lot of men who are now wearing their hair longer and curly. And so we actually serve anyone who has hair. And of course, our natural hair clients have been really just really focused on eliminating the trial and error and understanding what works for them. If you're women or men or anyone. OK, so but it's what we're checking out natural hair. So if you take a picture and you got a perm. Okay, so, but check out natural hair. So if you take a picture and you got a perm, well, that doesn't help you, right?

Well, we can analyze anyone's hair. And so if you're relaxed, even if you have locks, if you're transitioning at any stage, we can actually understand what you need according to your hair goals and your hair challenges. And so we use that to create a personalized hair care plan, and it's accessible right at your fingertips, at the palm of your hand. So it takes away the surge, but also really keeps you on the path of healthy hair.

Robert, are you downloading the app right now? That's what you're looking at right now? I'm trying to find out what my curl pattern will be. I think I'm a 3C. So I do have a question about that. So what happens if you identify you think you have one curl pattern, let's say you think you're a 4B, turns out you're a 3C. What kind of damage can happen if you're treating your hair for one style

versus what you actually are, and what are some things that can be done to repair that? Yeah, exactly. And that's what a lot of the confusion is because of the hair typing system. But in our research, we found that your hair is as unique as your fingerprint. And so we have created what's called your hair ID, which is beyond just a 4A, 4B, 2C, but it actually shows the condition of your hair as well. Because if you use something that's really not catered to your true hair texture and type, you don't get the right results, right?

So you get the frizziness, the breakage, the dryness, a lot of the challenges that customers have reported. So your hair ID is actually what's best to tell you your true match for your texture, type, and condition. All right, I got two more questions, Rowan, before we move on. Two more. All right. One. So let's say, let's say you have been on your natural hair journey for a while, but then I'll give you some of my sister for her wedding. They had to straighten her hair and they burned

the hell out of it. And as you know, she had to get a fade. Is there any way to save what has happened other than having to do the big chop and chop it off and start back over from scratch? And then I'll have a follow-up after that one. Yes, it's truly on a case-by-case basis. Honestly, heat damage does do a measure on your hair. And sometimes we can save it, you know, through different techniques, you know, twisting things that really bring back, you know, the definition and get you back to your,

your, the true nature of your hair. But sometimes you'll, instead of doing a big chop, you may have to trim it, you know, just a little bit at a time. But we just, you know, recommend to stay away from too much excessive heat because it does truly damage your hair. But through our virtual consultations, we help, you know, try to understand the best process to take, you know, from there on. All right. And last follow-up. So, a couple weeks ago, I had to do some South Georgia heat stuff. So, I cut my hair off and all people in Roland's comment section thought I had a toupee on. Because, you know, Black folks can be cruel when you change your hair. They don't like things to be even slightly different. But part of what I've noticed is,

you know, everybody and their mama got a different kind of hair putty, hair butter, honey, hemp seed, et cetera, stuff to put in your hair. How can you make sure you're getting the right kind of thing instead of just, you know, following what your homegirl or someone at the salon said? How can you know which of these things are actually reputable and which one somebody just mixed it up in their bathtub and put it on Etsy? Yeah, that's funny. You know, there's a lot of marketing buzzwords that people are using to sell products and appeal to consumers, but we actually do our own testing and research

from a research and development standpoint to really understand what are the ingredients that are composed in this product and how is it going to actually perform on different hair IDs. And so I would say Maiavana is your best source because we do go through and just really look at each product and how it's composed, what's the ingredient list, what is the actual performance of the product. And that really helps, what's the ingredient list, what is the actual performance of the product. And that really helps, you know, with understanding, like, is it safe to use, or do you really need an expert opinion? And that's what our team is here for. See, Rowan ain't think I knew that much about black women's hair.

Yes, it's an art and a science, and we love it all. Right. Okay, Robert, you just trying to sit here and score some brownie points at the Labor Day Picket. Monique? Yes. As amusing as Robert was, here's my question. How do you, through AI or otherwise, if you could explain some of the process that gets you to accuracy without having a sample of the person's hair or without touching it yourself, how are you sure about texture? I don't have any chemicals, but my hair is blown out right now freshly.

Thanks be to God. But wet, obviously, is completely different than this, and air dry is completely different than this. And I'm just wondering how with it the way it is right now, how would you know the real kink pattern of this this mop right here? Yes, that's an excellent question, because from our research, we found that texture is fluid. And depending on how you style it, you know, it can look and appear this way. But actually, we have two paths to what we call hair nirvana, which is the meaning of my Ivana. The AI technology through the app really is it for instant guidance when you need, you know, recommendations on the go. And we have over 90 percent accuracy on really identifying the true texture and type combination. Now for a

comprehensive assessment we do send you a hair analysis kit in the mail where you actually comb your hair and send your hair strands to our lab and we look at your hair strands underneath the microscope to really break down the condition of your hair because that's what you really want to get to especially if it is relaxed. If you have, you know, let's say you've used the keratin treatment or you have some damage or you have breakage, you know, what is really going on? That is what we can see under the microscope. And that's what guarantees, you know, our accuracy is, you know, as high as it is.

We have a great customer satisfaction rate. And we can really get down to, get down to the true state of your hair to guide you in the best way. Thank you. Jason. So my first question is, are you guys able to, I saw you with the Aunt Jackie's in the background,

Aunt Jackie's gel. Yes, some of my recommended brands here, yes. So I wonder, I couldn't let Robert take all the shine for his knowledge of black hair. But do you guys steer people towards black-owned products? Or do you steer them towards any products that you think will help their hair? Because, you know, of course there is a movement to have, you know, Black people using Black-owned products rather than going to some traditional. Most of us were using products that were not started by Black people. That's a very excellent question. So we are brand agnostic. We recommend all products on the market. However, we do know consumer preferences have changed, and some people want to purchase strictly those that are Black-owned.

And so you can tell my Ivana your preferences. You want Black-owned products, products with natural ingredients, high-performance, clean ingredients. And so we do have quite a number of black owned brands. We have amazing partnerships with black owned hair companies and black led companies, you know, and we are truly, you know, looking to strengthen our community when it comes to building wealth in the hair industry. We just partnered with Bob said the black owned beauty supply association, which caters to Black-Owned Beauty Supply owners and salon owners. And so we're very sensitive to that. And we do want to help shift the dollars when it comes to shopping, you know, back to our Black-Owned brands as well. So I have one other question, and that is you talk about looking, you send hair samples to a lab and they look at it under a microscope.

I'm assuming that what affects the health of your hair is sometimes the internal health of your body. Absolutely. Any advice like, hey, you need to drink more water or you need more vitamins or anything like that by, you know, what you are able to see through the microscope? Yes, absolutely. So we do have healthy hair content that we publish from the lab, from our own case studies of what we've seen under the microscope, but also in our questionnaires and consultations with customers. The state of your hair is really a reflection of your internal health. And sometimes some of the questions are, are you stressed? You know, what's your diet like? And also, do you have any medical conditions?

These are the things that are leading to, you know, a damaged state of hair or even just hair loss. Hair loss is a really prevalent concern right now, especially those who are wearing wigs, weaves, and extensions and have experienced hair loss in their edges, traction alopecia. There are a number of health conditions that are even affecting the state of the scalp as well. And so we take all of that into account. And also with our professionals that we recommend, we are building a network of dermatologists, more practitioners on the health side that can help us bridge the gap and really serve the total person to understand how our recommendations and the regimens are providing are also connecting to your health internally as well. So that's a really big research area for us right now. All right, then.

One of the questions that came from the control room was the hair analysis. What is the cost of that? The cost is $129 for the hair analysis kit. We do have a promo code unfiltered. You can get 20% off the hair analysis kit for all of the viewers here today. And it saves you hundreds of dollars that you waste on the wrong products that haven't worked for your hair. So it's cost saving and it's really meant to help you save time, save money, and really eliminate the frustrations with your hair care and have healthy hair.

All right. So again, what is the, is the promo code again for all of our viewers? All right. So, folks, if you're watching, if you go to the website, use the unfiltered promo code at MYAVANA.com. Check that out. We certainly appreciate you joining us on the show. This is one of the reasons why we have the segment for folks who are creating technology and using it

for the purpose of informing our viewers. And so, folks, that's how you can follow MyHavana on social media and, again, use the promo code Unfiltered. Candace, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you for having me. All right, folks, going to a quick break. When we come back, a brother decides to

take the Beyonce song as a hit and do it in the voice of Denzel Washington. We'll show you next on Roller Martin Unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. We'll be right back. When we invest in ourselves our glow our vision our vibe we all shine together we are black beyond measure on the next a balanced life with me dr jackie getting back to normal is there such a thing we're about to send our kids back to school when we literally have more questions

than there are answers. What does it mean to have a normalcy? How will our kids respond to it? And how are we going to assist them? What can you do to help your kids feel some sense of emotional stability as they go back into the classroom here on A Balanced Life on the Black

Star Network. When we invest in ourselves, we all shine. Together, we are Black beyond measure. Hey, I'm Arnaz J. Black TV does matter, dang it. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your boy, Jacob Lattimore, and you're now watching Roland Martin right now. Stay woke. All right, folks, I got this video today. Someone posted me a text, and I found it to be quite hilarious. I've seen this brother, this comedian, Christian King,

several times with his Denzel impressions. and I found it to be quite hilarious. I've seen this brother, this comedian, Christian King, several times with his Denzel impressions. Now he decides to do Beyoncé's new hit, Meets Denzel Washington. Watch this. You won't break my soul. No, no. You won't break my soul.

I'm telling everybody. I can guarantee you that. Hmm? I just fell in love. I just quit my job. I'm going to find a new drive. I can guarantee you I'm going to find it new drive and guarantee I'm going to find it. They work me so hard.

Work at nine? And off past five? No, no. They work my nerves, you understand? They work my nerves. That's why I can't sleep at night. I'm looking for motivation. Hmm?

I'm looking for a new foundation. I'm on that new vibration. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah. Huh? I'm building my own foundation. That's right. Yeah. Oh, baby. Huh? You'm building my own foundation. That's right. Yeah.

Oh, baby. Huh? You won't break my soul. No. You won't break my soul. I can guarantee it. I stand by it. I'm telling everybody. You won't break my soul.

You won't break my soul. Okay? All right. All right. Seemed like you got a kick out of that one, eh? It's fantastic. It's fantastic. I love it.

I seen it earlier today. I didn't get to see the whole thing. But it's very Denzel-esque, but at the same time catches the meaning of those lyrics for our time. Thank you, Queen B. I absolutely thought it was hilarious, Jason. And first of all, he's spot on with his Denzel impersonation. Yeah, I mean, he's a talented guy.

I've seen him before. You know, I think he's definitely a funny guy, and I enjoyed that. That was really good. Robert? Yeah, I have not heard the Beyonce song. I don't think I'm in Beyonce's target demographic at all, so I think part of it was

lost on me. Wait, wait, wait, Robert, Robert. Are you... Look, I'm not a Beyoncé fan. I'm sorry. I'm not part of her target demographic. Y'all can enjoy those things. Robert, Robert, Robert, Robert. Yes.

So, for the last week, you, like, have you been in the world? Have you walked past the radio? No, no. I purposefully avoid the radio. I have satellite radio for that reason, so I don't have to hear the stuff on the radio. I like to hear the stuff that I like. Beyonce is not a thing that I like.

I'm not a fan of Beyonce. I think she's a very nice lady, a wonderful wife and mother, but I'm just not a Beyonce person. Wait, hold up. Give me camera seven. Hold up. Your ass just said you don't like Beyonce?

I don't. Look, I'm not the person to buy the Beyonce album. I'm not going to a Beyonce concert. If you're in the car with me, more than likely Beyoncé the partition Beyonce or the break my soul? Because this is an entire new genre that she's breaking into with four on the floor. Beyonce. Is it that you don't like excellent singers, Beyonce, or you don't like good dancers, Beyonce, or you don't like diverse lyrics is it the country song Beyonce or is it just something about her voice because you don't know her and you're saying you think she's a nice lady and you think she's a good wife and mother I don't know how the hell you know any of that but what I know for sure is that she's got vocals that rival anybody alive.

And she is also a dancer, writer, entertainer extraordinaire. I mean, the likes of which, I mean, in terms of entertainers, and I use MJ with reluctance and high esteem, but when we're talking about aliveive and Dead for Best Entertainer, so I'm just wondering, is it her particular stellar voice that bothers you, or is it that you think all her music is the same because it is not? No, no, I don't like the sound of Beyoncé's voice when she's singing. That's what I mean when I say I'm not a Beyoncé fan.

Like, if there's like a ranking of people that I want to hear singing, she's not on the ranking of list of people I want to hear singing. You put Jill Scott at the top, and descend down from there, there's a lot of people in between Jill Scott and Beyonce. Like I said, everybody's welcome to like what they like. I don't think that there's anything

wrong with saying that you're not a Beyonce fan. She's not magical, but I'm glad that people enjoy it. I just wonder if you were saying she couldn't sing, because then I would take exception just to your ear deafness. But what you're saying

is the tenor of her voice is bothersome to you and I can understand that. I mean, sometimes y'all's voices, Tenor, bothers the hell out of me. So it's not that I don't like you or think you're not a nice person.

It's that you don't have smart things to say. It's just sometimes it hurts. Hey, Jason, I'm with you on who the hell is y'all. But Jason, hold on before I go to you. Robert, so you ain't tell me. Go to my iPhone. You, you, Roland, you. Well, stop talking then you ain't gotta have me

cuss you out. So Robert, you trying to, so Robert, you not down with Formation, Countdown, Love on Top, Single Ladies, Get Me Body, Deja Vu, Ring the Alarm, Frequent Dress, Crazy in Love, Ego, you know, did you like Destiny's Child? I think the last song that I heard on that list was probably Bootylicious. So, like I said, I'm not her target demographic. I'm not going to be sitting in the car, me and Tyrone and Don driving through Atlanta listening to Beyonce albums.

Hold up, hold up, hold up. I guarantee you Tyrone and Don down with Beyonce. driving through Atlanta listening to Beyonce albums. That's not true. Hold up, hold up, hold up. I guarantee you Tyrone and Don down with Beyonce. Right, you are her target demographic. Right, I mean, I don't know what you're talking about, you and the demographic. Jason, go ahead. I don't know what the hell has happened to Robert.

Go ahead, Jason. So, first thing I got to say for Robert, Robert, first of all, you got to understand that Roland is from Texas, so he's going to be... No, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold up, hold up. No, you got to narrow that shit. Nope, you got to narrow that shit down. Texas is a big-ass state.

I'm from Houston. Okay. Right. But... Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Wait, why? Ah, ah, ah, ah. I'm from Houston.

Beyonce's from Houston. But she could be from Charlotte, and I'm going to jam to Beyoncé. So that ain't got nothing to do with it. But Jason, continue. No, I hear you. Now, I also hear what Robert's saying. Like, I enjoy Beyoncé. No, no, no, Jason, we heard what he said.

We think he crazy. But go ahead. Yeah, I'm saying, I enjoy Beyonce's records, but I'm not like, riding down the street pumping Beyonce. Like, at least not since Crazy in Love when I heard Jay get on there or something like that. But like, I like,

you know, a different genre of music. And it sounds like if he put Jill Scott up there, that's a completely different genre. You know what I mean? So I think, like, it's more that he doesn't... What's a genre? No, don't just use genre and you don't mean genre because Jill Scott and an entire set

of platinum-selling Beyoncé records belong in the same genre. Are you saying that Beyoncé is not R&B because of her rock? Or are you saying country is not R&B, which I can understand. But when you say genre, what does that even mean? Sure. I can explain. When I think of Jill Scott, I think of Philly neo soul.

There was a time when people brought out much more jazzy, Philly-inspired neo soul. There was a time when people brought out much more jazzy Philly inspired neo soul. And that's not Beyonce's much more of a pop artist. You know, she's still R&B, but she makes a different style of music than you would hear from someone like Jill Scott. And so I think there's just a style there, stylistic difference. It's not that he doesn't like be on say or think be on says a good singer. Maybe. I like Jason. He said he'll like the I say so you try you

try to decipher you try to see the site. He said I don't like the I say I'm like I'm sure she she's a wonderful entertainer you trying to sit here and decipher. He said, I don't like Beyonce. I don't like her. I'm sure she's a wonderful entertainer. I've not followed her that far. But, you know, there's one thing about genre. For example, Beyonce, I guess, is a great entertainer. Jill Scott is a great vocalist. You know, if you put

Beyonce and Erykah Badu next to each other, I'm going to take Erykah Badu. I will put Beyonce kind of more in that category before, you know, Sheila E. or something along those lines. Or Paula Abdul. I think more the entertainment side of it, and that's just not my thing that I'm into. Oh, come on, Robert.

That wasn't fair. Paula Abdul, bro. Well, I'm just saying, Monique said people who dance and put on a good show and also sing, so that's kind of my frame of reference for it. But she can sing better than Paula Abdul. You will give her that, correct? We're talking about general comparisons, not a one-to-one ranking.

I don't follow either of them close enough to say which one is better between the two. I just say that's a very different thing that you're listening to than if you're listening to somebody who's a vocalist who can sing a cappella. Sing something. I got my trombone in the corner. I can go get that. Is that what you want me to do? No, hell no, I don't want you to do that. Hell no, I don't want you to do that.

Not a singing scholarship. That you don't know vocals from your damn trombone. That, the Beyonce blasphemy has gone too far at this point. It's not blasphemy. We have a difference of opinion. I will offer, no, no, no. But if you're going to have an opinion on if somebody can sing or not,

you got to be able to follow a tune. You don't have to have perfect pitch. I do, but you don't able to follow a tune. You don't have to have perfect pitch. I do, but you don't have to. But what I am saying is that for you to say, just in this last album, if you start with Church Girl and you work your way through, you're gonna go through Cozy,

you're gonna go through Plastic on the Sofa, you're gonna go through Virgo's Groove, you're gonna make your way all the way to Pure through cozy. You're going to go through a plastic on the sofa. You're going to go through Virgo's groove. You're going to make your way all the way to pure and honey. I'm not even talking about break my soul. That's just a breakout hit because all she does is make hits. I'm not talking about that. What I am talking about is the runs. I am talking about the level of musicality and all of the different ranges and ways that she can utilize her voice. If you go to any of the greats that you just named, because they all are great. I'm not blaspheming Erica or Jill or Dionne Warwick or Diana Ross, but you know who they

all say can sing? Robert, you know who they say can sing? Who's that, Monique? Beyonce. And that's great. If you enjoy her, feel free to listen to your heart's desire. I'm not going to be one of those people. Dolly Parton can sing, all right?

And I might not like all of her music. Loretta could sing. I am talking about some people can sing and some people cannot. Okay. And, and Beyonce is way higher up the list of people with vocal abilities. And I, I, I personally, though I am a member of the Beehive, I am a Texan. Um, Beyonce's first name is her mother's maiden last name. That's the Beyonce's of Galveston, Texas, where I am from. So I am personally offended. But I want to professionally say, no, you don't have to listen to her.

But to say that she's somewhere down that list, like where the non-singers are, and Paula Abdul would even be offended, and she is a great dancer and can hold a tune, but that is not the clean. Now, let me say this here. First of all, as the resident musicologist on this panel, as the resident musicologist on this panel, and Monique, you try that one more time. Mute her damn mic.

Let me real clear, you can listen to multiple genres. You can listen to Philly sound, 70s, in terms of gambling huff. You can listen to Motown sound. You can go to stack sound. You can listen to neo soul. You can go from Jill Scott to Erykah Badu to go to Nancy Wilson and go to Stack Sound. You can listen to Neal's Soul. You can go from Jill Scott to Erykah Badu to go to Nancy Wilson and go to Natalie Cole

and go to Rochelle Farrell and then a host of singers. But the point is, clearly, Robert, your musical palette is greatly limited. Now... I got to... Look, the thing is, look, y'all are Beyonce fans. I'm not. I'm saying if you're going to put Prime

Whitney Houston at the top of the list, how far down on that ladder do you go before you get to Beyonce? I would probably go down in a 15th name. First of all, it depends upon what the exact list is. There are some lists where you talk about who are singers. There are some lists where you talk about who are singers.

There are other lists where you talk about who are performers. And so if you're talking about a singer's list, Aretha at the top. Let's just be real clear. The queen at the top. Now, if you're talking about performers,

it's different. So the list depends upon what the list is. That's what I just said. The Beyonce's on the entertainer performer list. You know, the Ciara, Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson back in the day. Okay, hold on. Don't put her in the Aretha Franklin list. You can't even put Paula Abdul in this conversation.

I mean, you can talk about performing. You can talk about Janet Jackson. She's a perfect example. She's a great performing. You can talk about Janet Jackson. Sheila E is a perfect example. She's a great performer. Do you listen to Sheila E? Look, sometimes if it's on in the background, am I going to buy a Sheila E album and drive

around listening to it? No, I'm not. You know what? Here's what I think it is. I think what happened is Rob was at the shooting range one day and they had Beyonce on and he didn't hit shit. I think that's what happened. I think he happened is Rob was at the shooting range one day, and they had Beyonce on, and he didn't hit shit. I think that's what happened. I think he had the shooting range, and he didn't hit a damn thing, and so he has had it out against Beyonce for quite some time.

I have nothing against the lady. I'm sure she's wonderful. I've never said anything against her. She is wonderful. But I cannot wait. I cannot wait until the beehive watched this video. but I cannot wait. I cannot wait until the beehive watch this video. I simply cannot wait. Yeah, I Jason real quick listen, I'm about to bounce you gotta be

real quick. Guys here were Roberts and because I think of like Christina Aguilera is a strong vocalist, but I'm not going to listen to her music. You know what I mean so you and you know, I think? You ain't never played a Christina Aguilera song? What's that? You don't have her on your iPhone?

I don't, nor will I ever. But I recognize that she's a strong vocalist. She just makes a different kind of music that I don't really rock with. So I think that's what Robert's saying. He's trying to, you know, be, you know, disagreeable. But he knows Beyonce is a strong's saying. He's trying to, you know, be disagreeable. But he knows Beyonce is a strong vocalist.

He just doesn't like her music that much. I don't think he believes that. Okay, Monique, final comment, 30 seconds. Yeah. What I want to say is one of the reasons, not that it's stopping her because she's at the top for a reason. But one of the difficulties in the critical acclaim area for Beyonce, for all that she has written, for all that she has performed vocally, and I listed Ave Maria and Hala for a reason at the top, and then all of these bops that we love, is because people watch her dance and perform and don't want to give her credit for all of the

vocal ability that goes along with the way that she does that at that level and the only one that i can compare it to is a michael jackson or a prince and that doesn't mean and i don't even agree with rolling with aretha i think that that Whitney Houston is the voice. Wait, hold up. What your ass just said? I said I don't agree because I think that Whitney Houston has no parallel on voice.

First of all, you out your damn mind. First of all, hold up. First of all, you out your mind because Whitney had Queen at the top of her list. And of course she would because she's a dutiful and respectful person. No, that ain't got nothing to do with it. And I'm going to read the fan, but I'm going to throw in Adele.

I'm going to throw in Christine. Adele? Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. No, no, hell no. No, right now, right now, straight up, your black card is on the edge right now. Your ass just said Adele?

Are you out your mind? First of all, hold up. First, let's be real clear. Rolling Stone, when they voted, the greatest voice produced in American history. The greatest voice produced in American history. The queen, Aretha Franklin. When did they do that, Roland?

And why are you doing what the white people said? First of all, no, there were black folks who voted. But here's the deal, though. She is called the queen for a reason right there. Yo ass just said Adele. Oh, no, no. Hell no. Jason, I saw you want to come through that screen.

Go ahead, Jason, because I know I'm about to cuss. I couldn't believe that. I was almost feeling what Monique was cooking until she put Adele ahead of Aretha Franklin? I did not say that. I did not say that. I said I am throwing in non-Black excellent artists to say we're considering all of them and that I put Beyonce in that list.

I'm factoring everybody in. At the top is Aretha Franklin. Jason, go ahead. Claude Davis produced both Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston, said putting Aretha Franklin in her own category, then Whitney Houston is the best singer. At the time, she was the best singer alive. I agree.

They should have their own categories. I agree with Clyde. No, your ass said above. Don't be trying to wiggle out of it right now. Your ass said above. I ain't forgot what you said. No, that's it. I got to end the show right now because right now it's blasphemous

what you just said. I don't even know what. Lord, what? I don't even. Lord, Jesus, get some holy oil and some anointing water because she done just lost her damn mind. I mean, I've already had to deal with Robert and his nonsense on Beyonce

but your ass just Oh, hell hell, oh, hell hell, hell, hell no. No, no, uh-uh, uh-uh. First of all, when you the queen, she the queen and had the voice. Uh-uh, that's

it, y'all. That's it. I don't want to hear nothing. I don't want to hear nothing. That's it. Uh-uh, please. That's it. Uh-uh. Please. The judges rule. Sit your ass down.

That's it. I'm going to hold both y'all in contempt. I'm going to hold both of y'all in contempt. It's going to be a daily find every day for what y'all. Oh, hell, y'all, it's time to go. You won't break my soul. It's time. Don't even sing. You won't break my soul. Don every day for what y'all Go up you gonna break those soul, but you but you gonna you gonna you gonna break some furniture up in here There's a bunch of moving up in here. We got to go y'all down on the Black Star Network now Y'all please turn her down because she lost her mind. She need Jesus y'all download the Black Star Network app. Y'all please turn her down because she lost her mind. She need Jesus.

Y'all, Apple phone, Android phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. And, of course, join our Bring the Funk fan club. Lord have mercy. She lost her mind. Lord, she has just lost her mind. Lord, she has just lost her mind. Y'all, see your check in one or two, PO Box 57196, Washington, DC, 2007-0196. Course Cash App is dollar sign RM Unfiltered.

PayPal is RMartin Unfiltered. Venmo is RM Unfiltered. Zelle is Roland at RolandXMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.commo is rmunfiltered. Zell is rolling at rollingwithmartin.com. Rolling at rollingwithmartinunfiltered.com. I don't know how in the hell she got a show called Make It Make Sense because she damn surely making no sense today with that blasphemy against the queen.

Mm-mm. Uh-uh. You can sing all day. You better go to your Instagram page and sing because Lord have mercy. All we got you right now is mouth of the words. Y'all, I got to go. I'm going to see y'all tomorrow right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered where I will always

defend the honor of the queen from Motown, my friend, the great Aretha Franklin, the greatest voice America has ever produced. And that ain't coming from Rolling Stone. That's coming from Uncle Roro. I'm going to see y'all tomorrow. Ho! Ho!

Ho! This is an iHeart Podcast.