#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Impeachment trial day 4; Ossoff presses Biden's budget pick on HBCU $$; Barr nixed Chauvin plea deal

Episode Date: February 13, 2021

2.12.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Impeachment trial day 4; Ossoff presses Biden's budget pick on HBCU $$; Barr nixed Chauvin plea deal; Judge in Rittenhouse case denies motion for new arrest warrant; Eugene Goodman to receive Congressional Gold Medal; Meet the Black woman who owns COVID testing centers in Texas and Oklahoma; The legendary Otis Williams of The Temptations reflects on the life Mary Wilson; Educators discuss Biden's plan for parents who want school choice.Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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at taylorpapersilling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. It's Friday, February 12th. I'm Ashley Banks filling in for Roland Martin. Let me tell you what's coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered. As day four of the Trump impeachment trial, his attorneys are trying to make their case against his conviction. We'll show you some of their arguments. New evidence shows that former attorney, General Bill Barr, blocked Derek Chauvin from pleading guilty

for the murder of George Floyd. Attorney Ben Crump will be here with the details, and we'll show you an interview Roland did with a black woman who owns a COVID testing center in Texas. In our Education Matters segment, four educators discuss Biden's plans for parents who want school choice. Plus, we'll show you Roland's one-on-one interview with the legendary Otis Williams of the Temptations. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin. Let's get started. He's got it. Whatever the piss, Let's get started. With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling It's Uncle Roro, y'all

It's Rolling Martin, yeah Rolling with rolling now He's funky, he's fresh, he's real The best you know, he's Rolling Martin Now She's real the best, you know he's rolling, Martin. Martin. Today, the defense team took center stage inside of the Capitol building as they argued that their client, former President Donald Trump, should not be impeached for his actions leading up to the deadly insurrection on January 6th. Now, Trump's lawyers, they showed their own tweets and played videos of Democrats encouraging protests while claiming the House managers presented manipulated evidence

and engaged in constitutional council culture. The defense continued to make their case that the former president has freedom of speech and that he did not directly incite the mob to storm the Capitol building. Here are some of the highlights from today. The article of impeachment now before the Senate is an unjust and blatantly unconstitutional act of political vengeance. This appalling abuse of the Constitution only further divides our nation when we should be trying to come together around shared priorities. Like every other politically motivated witch hunt the left has engaged in over the past four years, this impeachment is completely divorced from the facts, the evidence, and the The Senate should promptly and decisively vote to reject it. No thinking person could

seriously believe that the president's January 6th speech on the ellipse was in any way an incitement to violence or insurrection. The Senate should also vote to reject the impeachment. The Senate should also vote to

reject the impeachment. The Senate should also vote to reject the impeachment. seriously believe that the president's January 6th speech on the Ellipse was in any way an incitement to violence or insurrection. The suggestion is patently absurd on its face. Nothing in the text could ever be construed as encouraging, condoning, or enticing unlawful the president's use physical violence. What he was instructing them to do was to challenge their opponents in primary elections, to push for sweeping election reforms, to hold big tech responsible, all customary and legal ways to petition your government for redress of grievances, which of course is also protected constitutional speech. The frequency with which House managers relied on unproven media reports

shocked me as I sat in this chamber and listened to this. And there's a lot that we don't know yet about what happened that day. According to those around him at the time, reportedly responded. Trump reportedly reports across all major media outlets, major news networks including Fox News reported, reported, reportedly summoned, reportedly, reportedly not accidental. According to reports, President Trump was reportedly, who reportedly spoke to the guard. It was widely reported. Media reports?

According to reports, reported. Reportedly. As any trial lawyer will tell you, reportedly is a euphemism for, I have no real evidence. We will not take most of our time today, us of the defense, in the hopes that you will take back these hours and use them to get delivery of COVID relief to the American people. Let us be clear. This trial is about far more than President Trump. It is about silencing and banning the speech the majority does not agree with. It is about canceling 75 million Trump voters and criminalizing political viewpoints. That is what this trial is really about. It's the only existential issue before us. It asks for constitutional cancel culture to take over in the United States Senate.

Are we going to allow canceling and banning and silencing to be sanction people in the minority? To the Republicans in this chamber, I urge you to look to the principles of free expression and free speech. To the Democrats who view this as a moment of opportunity, I urge you instead to look to the principles of free expression

and free speech. I hope truly that the next time you are in the minority, you don't find yourself in this position. To the Republicans in this chamber, I ask when you are next in the majority, please resist what will be an overwhelming temptation to do this very same thing to the opposing party. Members of the Senate, this concludes the formal defense of the 45th president. President Trump engaged in a course of conduct that incited an armed attack on the Capitol. He did so while seeking to overturn the results of the election and thwart the transfer of power. And when the attack began, he further incited violence aimed to his own vice president,

even as demonstrated his state of mind by failing to defend us and the law enforcement officials who protect us. The consequences of his conduct were devastating on every level. Police officers were left overwhelmed, unprotected. Congress had to be evacuated. Our staff barricaded in this building, calling their families to say goodbye. Some of us, like Mr. Raskin, had children here. And these people in this building, some of whom were on the FBI's watch list, took photos, stole laptops, destroyed precious statues, including one of John Lewis, desecrated the statue of a recently

deceased member of Congress who stood for nonviolence. This was devastating. And the world is still watching us to see what we will do this day and we'll know what we did this day 100 years from now. Those are the immediate consequences and our actions will reverberate as to what are the future consequences. The extremists who attacked the Capitol at the president's provocation will be emboldened. All our intelligence agencies have confirmed this. It is not House managers saying that. There are quite literally standing by and standing ready. Donald Trump told them this is only the beginning.

They are waiting and watching. The point is this, that by the time he called the cavalry, cavalry, not calvary, but cavalry, of his thousands of supporters on January 6th, an event he had invited them to. He had every reason to know that they were armed, violent and ready to actually fight. He knew who he was calling and the violence they were capable of. And he still gave his marching orders to go to the Capitol and, quote, fight like hell to stop the steal. How else was that going to happen? If they had stayed at the Ellipse, maybe it would have just been to violently fight in

protest with their words but to come to the Capitol that is why this is different and that is why he must be convicted and acquitted and disqualified all right it's time to introduce my panel. We have Candace Kelly, legal analyst, Mustafa Santiago Ali, former senior advisor for environmental justice at the EPA, and Michael Imhotep, host of the African History Network show. Thank you so much, guys, for joining us today. Now, I want to start with you, Michael. How can these people stand there with straight faces and say that Donald Trump did not incite this insurrection when all of us heard his words, when all of us have seen what he's done in the last four years in this country? Well, very simple, Ashley, and thanks for having me on today.

And shout out to Roland wherever he is, probably wearing some alpha gear, but I won't hold that against him. The reason why is because they sold their souls to the devil and they had to give the devil chains. This is basically why. So what we're looking at is there was one point during the question session after the defense finished making their arguments and then they opened it up to questions, four hours worth of questions from the senators, senators opposing questions. That's taking place right now. There was one question asked by one of the senators. I don't remember which senator asked

the question. So basically to the effect, so Donald Trump says that the election was stolen, okay? And they were asking, okay, so are you saying that the election was stolen? Is that the argument that you're making, that the election was stolen from Donald Trump? And the attorney did not want to answer the question directly. He said, it doesn't matter what I think. Well, no, the lie of the big steal, okay? The name of the rally was Stop the Steal Rally

at the White House. The lie of the big steal is directly tied the name of the rally was Stop the Steal Rally at the White House. The lie of the big steal is directly tied to the insurrection. You weaponized this lie that the election was stolen from you to enrage these people, and then you sent them to the U.S. Capitol to interrupt a constitutionally mandated joint session of Congress, joint session of the legislative branch of government, where they are certifying the votes from the electoral college. You wanted them to interrupt that and stop that so that you could stay in power. So the lie is directly tied to the insurrection.

Exactly. Like you're saying, Michael, some people are stating that that day on January 6th that Donald Trump did not incite the insurrection. Let's pretend he didn't that day, although we know he did. You can say leading up to that point, he had been inciting something like what we saw on January 6th. Now, Candace, I want to go to you. What were your thoughts on those remarks? Well, I think that when we look at this, we are looking at a train that's just already off of its tracks. And it's just not unfolding the way in terms of due process that a regular session would. Let's look at the facts. We've got somebody like Ted Cruz, who is behind closed doors. He's supposed to be our juror, right? He is speaking with the defense attorneys, and that's really unacceptable.

When we look at any court of law, which we know this isn't, but let's analogize it and look at it that way. We also know that a lot of the Republicans weren't even in the room at the time listening to any of the arguments. We also know that there are going to be 17 people who are not going to say, hey, yes, let's go ahead and let's make sure that we disqualify Donald Trump

all along. So when I look at these statements, like you said, Ashley, and the fact that they really are just lies, and the fact that leading up to it, we see all of the little breadcrumbs that we can connect and make one big loaf of bread, right, at the end of the day on January 6, the Republicans, it didn't matter, because they were playing a game today where they were just kind of killing time. Allotted 16 hours only took two hours and a half in order to make their case, because they ultimately knew and know what the decision is going to be. But I think that after two days of ten hours of what the prosecution, if you will, did in terms of laying its case, they laid their case.

They showed that there was foreseeability. How could Donald Trump not know when he gets briefings every day? And we know that he watches TV every day the way that he does, how could he not know that there were going to be people there who were not going to riot the way that they did? He called for it, he could foresee it, and that's what he got. As Michael said, it was called stop the still. How else were we going to stop it?

It didn't happen the 61 days in court in the cases. It wasn't proved. So they had to use this, and this was the last resort. Candace, like you're saying, Trump knew what he was doing all along. Mustafa, what are your thoughts? Well, this is one of the worst defense cases that I've ever seen. It's really quite simple. Let's just put it in a very simplistic form. They're trying to convince you that what you saw, you did not see. What you heard, you did not hear. And for those who were there in the Capitol, what you experienced, you did not experience. And if folks are willing to actually not convict him,

they are really convicting the Republican Party. They are saying that the Republican Party has no dignity, and we've all had debates about that. They are saying that the Republican Party has no dignity, and we've all had debates about that. We're saying that the Republican Party has no credibility. We're saying that the Republican Party does not care about democracy. All the things that they have continued to espouse that is a part of their foundational elements are no longer of value. So they have a decision. These men and women have a decision to make. If they want to continue to destroy their party, then don't convict Donald Trump. But if you want your party to survive, then you must convict him.

That's a good point, Mustafa. I want to move on to an event that happened earlier this week. Now, Senator John Ossoff, he pressed Neera Tanden, President Joe Biden's pick, to lead his budget office during her Senate confirmation hearing about funding for HBCUs. Now, during Tuesday's hearing, the Democratic senator discussed the importance of HBCUs and how they are, quote, gems in our nation's higher education system. Here's more of what he had to say. Georgia hosts some of the most renowned historically black colleges and universities in the country, and HBCUs play a vital role, not just serving the black community, but as gems in our nation's higher education system. Will you commit to working with my office to ensure that as the administration develops its budget request in upcoming years,

that the needs of HBCUs are proportionally represented and well represented in the president's budget request? Senator, as a candidate, President Biden did discuss the vital role HBCUs play amongst higher education institutions on equity, from an equity perspective and higher education and essentially wealth building over the long term. And so it is a priority for the president and the vice president. And I would welcome the opportunity to work with you on those issues in support of HBCUs and the vital role that they play. So last week, we reported that the Maryland Senate passed a measure for a $577 million settlement to a long-running lawsuit involving Maryland's four HBCUs, which included Coppin State University, Morgan State, Bowie State, and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore.

In 2006, a lawsuit was filed that alleged Maryland underfunded those four HBCUs. Now, as someone who graduated from one of those HBCUs, Morgan State University to be exact, I knew the school lacked resources when I was attending. I knew it was underfunded. And in order for me to compete with journalism students attending the PWIs in the state, including Towson and University of Maryland College Park, I knew I had to work three times as hard as those students to even be able to compete in the workforce. Now, Michael, I want to start with you. HBCUs have been getting the short end of the stick for a while now. But do you think the Biden administration will really cater to HBCUs? I think there will be more of a sensitivity to HBCUs, especially being that you have Kamala Harris, who's a graduate of Howard University.

So now part of this also because the White House submits the budget to the legislative branch of government, and it's approved in Congress. So I think in the White House, I think there'll be a greater sensitivity, even a greater sensitivity than under the Obama administration, because one of the criticisms under the Obama administration was that you didn't have anybody, if I remember correctly, you didn't have anybody in the cabinet who graduated from HBCU. This is one of the criticisms. There wasn't that sensitivity.

And then also, even though I think it was inadvertent, I don't think when they changed the Parent PLUS Loan program to look back seven years in the parents' credit history, and it had a devastating impact on HBCUs. It wasn't something, from my understanding of this, it wasn't something specifically done to hurt HBCUs because it was all across the board. But what HBCU presidents were saying, and HBCU Digest, there were numerous articles written in HBCU Digest about this, the HBCU presidents were saying, you did not consult with us first before you made this change to see how this would impact us. OK, so I think with Vice President Kamala Harris and probably others, I think you have a greater sensitivity in the White House. So we'll have to see what happens in the legislative branch of government, in the House and the Senate.

Candace, do you agree with Michael? You know, definitely. I mean, Joe Biden is definitely going to be more sensitive to the issue because that was his platform. Let's end the racial disparity. So when we talk about racial disparity, we were talking about legacy and wealth building. And when we talk about legacy, we are talking about HBCUs, which historically, which is why they exist, they existed because of the fact that this was the way that African Americans were able to get educated and try to close that wealth gap, one that is just far beyond what we want it to be. But certainly, President Joe Biden knows the level of expectation, not only because he

ran on that and because Black people came to the table and voted for him, but because of the fact that, like Michael said, he's got someone that went to an HBCU, understands the value of it, and understands what it means to be in college and how that affects legacy. And that's what we're looking at overall, legacy. The folks that we see out on the streets that are making it and aren't making it, it all has to do with what came before them. So when we can build that foundation, I am hoping that the president understands that that's the foundation that we need in order to move up. Now, Mustafa, if the Biden administration doesn't step up, what is something that HBCUs can do in order to get the funding they need?

Well, we're going to have to work with public-private partnerships. But first of all, we should not let Biden or members of Congress off the hook for making the investments. you can't build back better without making sure that the alumni and those current students who are part of our HBCUs are not a critical part of that. The STEM programs and all these other programs that are going to be so critically important for us to be able to meet the need that the president has put out. The second part of that is that, you know, we should also be making sure that as the rest of the cabinet is filled out in the second and third level positions, that it's filled with individuals who have the sets of experiences who come from HBCUs, because there's a certain set of competencies that come

with that education and those sets of experiences, which also will be critically important. And then, again, you know, the presidents can work with a number of others, whether it's foundations or whether it is in the corporate world, to make sure that they are also living up to this moment. There is a cultural shift that has happened in our country and you have to make the investments both in the people and in the resources that are necessary for both the sets of challenges that we have in front of us and a huge set of opportunities. Now, Michael, I'm sure this is an obvious question, but would you say the underfunding of HBCUs is just a bigger ploy to get rid of them? I think that's part of it to get rid of them. But also, now, historically, oftentimes you had, you know,

sometimes Republicans that may have been more of an advocate for funding HBCUs also. That's something else. But I think a lot today, you have a push to underfund them, one, to get rid of them, but also a lot of people don't know beyond the African-American community. A lot of people don't know the importance of HBCUs as well beyond African-American. So at the same time, the real value of HBCUs, I really think needs to be promoted. The percentage of doctors and attorneys and public school teachers, like about 50 percent of African-American public school teachers and something like 80 percent of judges. Looks like we lost Michael. Candace, now Michael was making a good point that a lot of people don't have an understanding of the importance of HBCUs and the value that they have. Can you of value of going to an HBCU is that there are certain experiences, there are certain things that you do as a student

where you're not interrupted by this whole idea of trying to negotiate who you are in terms of your race, which is often the case when you go to a mall or to a restaurant or to any place where you are specifically the O and O, the one and only somewhere. So you go to an HBCU, not only do you not have to deal with that, but you're able to build other skills in place of that. Okay. So that you don't have those stressors. You don't have to be competitive with the world in a way that you used to. And when you take that off of you,

it shifts. It allows you to open yourself to do other things. And I just want to comment on something that you said earlier when you said, hey, what are the options if this doesn't happen in terms of the HBCUs that don't get the money? Let us not underestimate the power of sororities and fraternities that leads us back to Kamala Harris once again in terms of what they can do in order to make some magic happen. I know that there are thousands of people who are listening today who understand the power of those sororities and fraternities to get together and shift and make movement and turn over possibly an idea that this could never happen, or if something doesn't happen, to make it happen. They do have a lot of power and a pipeline to Kamala, who seems to be open to that. I mean, certainly she better. She's got a lot of sorority sisters that are looking for her to pick up their phone at the other end.

Yeah, very true, Candace. Now, Mustafa, before we go to break, do you have any last words you'd like to say about this? Yeah, so we can't even deal with the paradigm of if they are not, because it should be an impossibility for them not to make the investments now. And here's what I mean by that. Joe Biden, in part of his executive orders, has talked about a full equity analysis of all the resources and policy decisions that are happening inside the federal government. So, and then we also know, let's say in the environmental and climate context, that they are dedicating $2 trillion in that space. So how much of those dollars are actually going to go to HBCUs? How much of your resources at both CDC and HHS and a number of the other scientific departments and agencies are now going to go to make the investments to build the critical infrastructure inside of our HBCU so that they can fully compete with PWI universities, which we know have huge endowments and get all kinds of money that's coming in. So it is, in my mind, it is an impossibility, but we have to hold the accountability in the process of them not making significant

investments inside of HBCUs. Yes. Now, Michael, I hear you're back. If you can just finish your statement. Repeat the question. I forget. You were talking about the value. The issue is that a lot of people don't have the understanding of the value. Oh, yeah, nationwide. And a lot of this has to do with also just people in general, just Americans in general being ignorant of history as well. I mean, Betsy DeVos didn't know what an HBCU was. And before Trump became president, I'm not even sure he knew what an HBCU was.

So really talking about the legacy of HBCUs, why they're still relevant today. And also the other thing is that you have, even though the majority of students at HBCUs are African-Americans, they also service other populations as well. But they're critical when we deal with scientists, African-American scientists, doctors, attorneys, judges, public school teachers, et cetera. They're crucial for that. So really championing the successes, the success stories and the legacies of HBCUs, I think all across the country, outside of the African-American community, I think is extremely important. And I totally agree with you being that I have experience attending an HBCU and then going to a PWI for graduate school, totally two different experiences. And I had

the understanding of why HBCUs exist and are necessary. So we're going to go to a break now coming up. We'll be talking to attorney Ben Crump about the George Floyd case. So stay tuned. I grew up wanting a lot of activities in my neighborhood that was in close proximity. You know, my mom wasn't always there, so I didn't always have a ride to places. And, you know, you want to be able to walk down the street and get to something that's some food for your soul in your community. You know, I relished, you know, the days of being in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and when I had to go out there

and live with my people, they had actually black-owned corner stores. My uncle owned one. My Uncle Donald owned a cleaner's and a corner store. And he a city councilman down there now. It's like, that was big for him. He was like, yo, man, you got to own something. Got to own something. His wife was named Louise.

It always killed me. I used to call him George Jefferson. His name was Donald because his wife was named Louise. And that was big to see my family own and stuff. And it just cultivated what my dad told me. My dad, he didn't say a lot of good stuff, but the three things that he did give me, play chess so you'll be a thinker, you don't have to work for nobody.

He told me that. He said, you don't have to work for nobody. The same energy that you put into for somebody else, you can put that same energy into for yourself. And then he'll go into his field. See, they talking about black people don't want to work. Black people just don't want no job. You know what I'm saying?

We don't work for nobody else. We want our own stuff. Give me my own stuff, I come to work every day. You know what I'm saying? He goes into his own field. And, like, I don't work for anybody. The U.S. uses more than half the world's health care resources, but we're ranked 43rd in the world for life expectancy.

How did we get here? The political determinants of health include how we structure relationships, how we distribute resources, and how we administer power. What does this look like at the individual level? Take Jessica, for example. Jessica is 19. Her dad relies on mental health and substance use programs, but when these programs get cut,

he becomes too difficult to live with. She leaves home. The neighborhood Jessica can afford has no grocery stores, limited public transit, and limited health care. To save money, policy makers change the water source to a more polluted river. Jessica has a minimum wage job with no health insurance at a convenience store that offers free snacks while she works, which she takes advantage of because they're free.

When Jessica becomes pregnant, she can't get health insurance because pregnancy is a pre-existing condition and she doesn't realize that the salty, fatty snacks that she eats at work are bad for her baby. Jessica gets a ride to the closest clinic for a prenatal appointment but the doctor is rushed and rude to her. She doesn't go back. Jessica develops preeclampsia and almost dies during her son's premature birth. He's born with cognitive defects because of poor diet, contaminated water source,

and lack of access to prenatal care. As he grows up, Jessica learns that her school district doesn't have the resources to accommodate her son's special needs. He drops out after eighth grade and will repeat the cycle of poverty. Through Jessica's story, we begin to see how social determinants, environmental determinants, health care determinants, and behavioral health determinants take their toll on our lives. And Jessica's story shows us how political determinants

supersede personal responsibility. Equity in our policies is a process and an outcome. Change comes when we can identify political champions at all levels and figure out how our most pressing issues align with their policies. For more actionable solutions to close the health gap, read The Political Determinants of Health by Daniel E. Dawes. What's up, y'all? I'm Will Packer. Hello, I'm Bishop T.D. James. What up,

Lana Well, and you are watching Rolling Martin Unfiltered. Attorney General William Barr blocked ex-Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin from pleading guilty in George Floyd's death. Now, officials say Barr rejected the plea deal because he felt like it was too soon and that the investigation into Floyd's death was in its early stages. Officials told the Associated Press that the former police officer was prepared to plead guilty to third degree murder in George Floyd's death before Barr blocked the plea deal last year. Now, on May 25th, bystander video captured Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck as Floyd cried out that he couldn't breathe for almost nine minutes. Floyd's death sparked outrage not just in the U.S., but around the world. Many activists called for the defunding of police departments across the nation. Chauvin is scheduled for trial March 8th. He faces charges of second-degree murder and manslaughter.

The three other officers involved in Floyd's death will face trial later this year. Joining me now to continue this discussion is attorney Ben Crump. Ben Crump, thank you so much for joining me today. Now, Derek Chauvin could be behind bars right now if Barr hadn't rejected his plea deal. So what are your thoughts on this? Well, it's very intriguing when you think about the fact that one of the things they say would be accomplished by him ending this plea would be that the protests, the arrests would likely come to a halt once he was held accountable. But you remember then President Donald Trump was using the Black Lives Matter protests

all around America after George Floyd as political rhetoric, saying that Democrats could not control their cities and that he was the law and order president and that he was going to rein in these Black Lives Matter protesters, which was very interesting considering the fact that when they had the protests and the illegal actions done on January 6, 2021, he wasn't that law and order president. So I think this may be bigger. This may be part of a bigger dynamic where this Attorney General Barr, they did not want to see the protest stop.

So what you're saying, as we know, former Attorney General Bill Barr, his thoughts were in line with Trump a lot of the times. And as it's come out yesterday that he rejected the plea deal, simply because he said it was too soon and that the investigation was in its infancy. But you're basically saying that there has to be a bigger picture here. And that's not at all the reason behind this. What I'm saying is one could look at all of the dynamics at play and we will never know what was in his mind or in his heart is one could look at all of the dynamics at play, and we would never know what was in his mind or in his heart when he prevented the plea of the officer

who kept his knee on George Floyd's neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds to be held to account using the pretext excuse that the investigation was too early, where they convict black people all the time when there's little to no investigation. What was different about this situation, the fact that you had the video that showed the clear that he caused George Floyd death and that he was the person most culpable of causing George Floyd to no longer be able to live. And the fact that he says it's too early to have him in a plea of guilty to murder is asinine. The video from day one told us that Derek Chauvin

was guilty of murder. Ben, a lot of people are on the same page as you. And I know when I read this report yesterday, I was saying to myself, was the video not enough? It's clear in the video what Derek Chauvin was doing. It's clear that George Floyd was in distress and he was calling out for his mother as Chauvin had his knee on his neck for that eight minutes and 46 seconds. So it's really strange that Barr said it was too soon. And like you said, if Derek Chauvin, maybe if he were a black officer, the situation would have been different and he would have been charged and sentenced possibly for the murder of someone. Now, I was there during the George Floyd protests. I was in Minneapolis on the ground reporting in May and June. And so I spoke to a lot of activists who were saying to me that they don't believe justice will be served in this case.

They believe, especially where Derek Chauvin will have a separate trial from the other three officers, that he's going to get off. Now, what are your thoughts on that? Well, I don't ever take it for granted when a white police officer unjustifiably kills an unarmed black person in America that it is a foregone conclusion that he will be convicted. However, I do believe this evidence is overwhelming that Derek Chauvin will be convicted of killing George Floyd. With that said, we are never ever surprised when they enter into the intellectual justification of discrimination

to further engage in the legalized genocide of colored people. So we don't take it for granted. We all have to be focused in Minneapolis on March 8th until we hear Judge Gabba come down, finding him guilty of murder, murder, murder. Ben, before I let you go, has the family said anything in reference to this new news? I'm sorry? Has the family said anything in reference to this new news about former Attorney General Barr? You know, the family has been focused on trying to prepare themselves for the trial, so I don't think they have dealt with these issues at all.

You can imagine the emotions they're gonna go through watching this trial as all of us are gonna go through. I'm certain that that video will be show a hundred times from every different angle. And to us, George Floyd is a hashtag. To them, that is their brother, their father. I mean, remember, for Lonis and Rodney, slept in the bed with George when they were little boys.

And to watch him have to suffer like that and they not be there for him is, uh, heart-wrenching. And so we just pray that they can find a purpose from all this pain that they're having to endure. Yeah, it's very heartbreaking. And like you said, Ben, for all of us, even if we didn't know him, just watching that tape on repeat, it was devastating to see something like that happen to an American, right, to happen to someone like George Floyd. We will be following this case as we have been doing, and we will stay in touch. Thank you so much, Attorney Ben Crump. Thank you for covering this important matter.

All right. I want to open this up to my panel. Now, Candace, what are your thoughts on former Attorney General Bill Barr basically rejecting this plea deal that could have landed Derek Chauvin in jail. Well, you know, even if he had landed him in jail, Derek Chauvin said, I'll go to jail for 10 years, which is not a lot of time, especially if we're going to find out down the line that he gets off a little earlier because of good behavior. So that really is nothing when you look at the life of George Floyd that was taken away. But certainly there had to be some strategy behind William Barr rejecting this idea that he go to jail on a third-degree manslaughter charge. And certainly I think that Ben Crump has hit the nail on the head, obviously,

in that Bill Barr is not someone who has great sympathy for black men. Look at what he did in lifting the federal moratorium six months, just a few months before the ending of Donald Trump's term. He did that for a reason. He made sure that black men were put to death in the most expeditious way that we've seen from any other president, lifting the moratorium. So there was more than we know that was going on behind the scenes. This wasn't Bill Barr just saying, no, I believe that we should have some more investigative work into this, because Derek Chauvin will probably be found guilty. He was doing this as part of a political scheme, just like Crump said.

And like you're saying, Candace, when it comes to Bill Barr, there was an interview that kind of went viral last year where he was saying that he didn't believe police brutality was a thing, and he was saying that racism wasn't a thing, but in the same breath, he talked about how systemic issues are a thing. And so essentially, he was admitting that racism is a thing, but in the same breath, he talked about how systemic issues are a thing. And so essentially, he was admitting that racism is a thing. And so we know that he isn't for the Black community. We know that he isn't for the George Floyds in this country. And so to see him reject that, of course, it does not come as a shock. Was there something else you want to say,

Candace? Well, I was just saying that, yeah. And certainly we've seen that not only this, but in other contexts in terms of what they think, not only about black men, black people, the Black Lives Matter protests. This was all part of a bigger scheme. And the fact that Derek Chauvin found it just, you know, had the privilege in him enough to say, not only do I accept 10 years, but I would like to go to federal prison. And in addition to that, I do not want to be sued down the line for civil rights. And which is why we're dealing with William Barr in the first place, because this would have been a civil rights issue that they would have had to make go away. And when we look at cases historically of people being sued for police brutality and then police getting off,

they generally go further and sue for their civil rights. And that's where they have their wins. So Derek Chauvin was saying, yes, give me this little sentence. And then down the line, I don't even want to be put back on the stand for civil rights. It really doesn't make any sense. And it all would have worked extra well in his favor. That's a good point, Katniss. Now, Michael, what are your thoughts? Well, you know, I talked about this last night on the African History Network show, and News1.com has an article about it, as well as NBC News.

NBC picked it up from the New York Times. So I posted it also on our Facebook fan page. So some people were saying they were happy that the plea deal was not accepted because they want Derek Chauvin, former officer Derek Chauvin, to be put on trial. I found it interesting that he did not want to face federal civil rights charges. We know the bar is high for federal civil rights charges.

You have to prove willful intent. It probably applies here. Will. It probably applies here. Willful intent probably applies here. But the other thing was, Attorney Crump, I think, made the point, or somebody alluded to the point, that maybe they did not want the protest to stop. If Officer Derek Chauvin had have pleaded and gone to prison, a lot of the protests out in the streets probably would have dissipated.

Donald Trump juxtaposed the protests with law and order and campaigned on this, okay? And the Wicked Witch of the West Wing of the White House, Kellyanne Conway, basically got caught saying that, to a certain extent, the protests were good for Trump and his reelection, the protests out in the streets.

Because he's saying, this is what your streets are gonna look like if Biden is president. But wait a second, this is what they look like under the Trump administration, okay? So it may have been a tool to say, we want these protests to keep going on so we could campaign on this and try to stay in office. That was good. As you said, Michael, he was doing a lot of projecting and that just goes back to inciting the Capitol insurrection where during the debates he was saying, you know, stand by, stand back. Basically, we have to take our country back. Right.

Stand by and stand back to the proud boys. Yeah. Exactly. All right, Mustafa, we're going to end with you. What are your thoughts? Well, you know, we can just deal with the facts. You know, Trump was dealing with a failing economy. Trump was dealing with a pandemic. So, you know, he wanted these types of things to continue to go forward, to take away from, you know, some of the core issues that he was failing on and continued to fail on until the last day that he was in office. But we should also remember the value of this show. When AG Barr was being up for the confirmation process, we began to talk about folks really need

to pay attention to him. He was a smooth operator and people, you know, didn't see through the veneer that he had put on and thought, well, maybe he'll take a moderate stance. Maybe he'll actually care about all communities and do the right thing. And we called out on this show, y'all pay attention, y'all get engaged, make sure that you're reaching out to your elected officials to make sure they're

asking the right questions. So when we don't do that, you know, then we end up with these types of situations that have repercussions and ripples that continue to follow out through the three or four years that people are in these positions. So, you know, this is, it's such a shame that he would interject himself into this process where he would not have done it if it was a person of color. All right. I want to go now to a update in the Kyle Rittenhouse case. Now in Kenosha, Wisconsin, a judge denied request to arrest and increase the bond for Kyle Rittenhouse, even after the 18 year old is accused of killing two men and wounding another during a protest held for Jacob Blake. Changed his address.

Prosecutors argued that Rittenhouse violated his bail by moving without updating the court. But since he has been present for every hearing while out on bail and has not violated Wisconsin law, the judge said he does not have the authority to issue an arrest warrant for Rittenhouse. Michael, this is insane because if this if Kyle was another person, if Kyle were possibly a black person, this would not be allowed. First of all, he'd still be in jail for what happened that night in Kenosha. Right. And then not to let the authorities know where he moved to, change of address because of death threats and things like that. You know, we talked about this last Friday on Roland Martin, the filter there. You know, this is Black History Month, but Black History Month takes place during white privilege year.

And this is what we're seeing. So they're just making this stuff, making this up as they go along. But so, you know, watch whiteness work. But hopefully he'll hopefully, you know, the evidence be presented in court and he'll go to prison. But they're making a lot of this stuff up as they go along. Now, Michael, as you said, his attorneys were stating that he needed to move. He needed to be in a safe house because of these death threats.

But when do we care about death threats that people like Kyle Rittenhouse are receiving? Why should that be a concern? Right now, you're supposed to be abiding by the laws. If the law says that you have to inform the courts that he's moving, then you have to do that. I just, this makes no sense. So Candace, what are your thoughts on this? You know, it's interesting because they've been playing pretty legally loose with Kyle for a little bit. Lest we forget the time that Kyle went out drinking with his mother, which by the way, he was allowed to do. You can drink even if you're underage, if you have someone that is overage, went out drinking with his mother, which, by the way, he was allowed to do. You can drink even if you're underage, if you have someone that is overage.

Went out drinking with his mother. And lo and behold, lucky for Kyle Rittenhouse, he found some white supremacists that came and serenaded him. And they threw up hate signs. And he had a great time taking pictures. If you think about somebody doing something that went against kind of the guidelines of what their bail or bond is supposed to be, that was the time where we really should have seen the book throw at Kyle. But it wasn't thrown then. It wasn't thrown now. And that is a part of the process when you say that you are going to adhere to the rules that are given to you if they let you out.

It's just one of those things that we've seen long before. It's not the first time that it's happened. It's not the last time that's going to happen. On the other side, if we do look at it, he has at least shown up for every hearing, which he should. I mean, this is a young kid who killed two people and left others injured. So it's something that, like Michael said, we've seen these type of privileges in the court. It's nothing new, but it's definitely something that we have to keep our eye on. Candace, like you're saying, showing up to court is something that's a given. It's something that you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to be rewarded or, you know, getting a pat on the back

simply because you're doing what you're supposed to do. So with that said, where you were saying that the courts have been lenient, right, and they've let certain things happen, Mustafa, do you believe that he could certainly get a slap on the wrist or not get the maximum penalty for killing the two protesters and injuring the other one in Kenosha last summer? Well, you know, white privilege is like American Express, never leave home without it. So it translates into all kinds of magical things that would never happen for folks of color. So, yes, I do think that it is possible that he may not get convicted of the murders that he is alleged to have done. And we've all seen the videotapes. So that's why people have to stay engaged.

You have to keep pressure on the system. You've got to make sure that folks know that you are not going to take your eye off the ball and that you also make sure that you utilize your vote in each of the upcoming elections to make sure that we get the right judges in place, to get the district attorneys in place and all the other incredibly important positions. So we're going to keep pushing. We're going to keep holding people accountable. And hopefully things will lean toward justice. I think that's important what you said there. Did you have something to say? Oh, I was just going to say, you know, lest we forget, too, that the reason why he's able to be out is because the same people who voted for Trump were the same people who raised the funds

to get him out and get the $2 million, including Ricky Schroeder, to make sure that that happened. And what's wild, Candace, I'll go ahead, Mike, I'll let you go. Go ahead. And the MyPillow guy also. That's right. That's right. Mike Lindell, the MyPillow guy, who keeps pushing these conspiracy theories that the election was stolen. Mustafa, I want to go back to a point you made about continuing to apply the pressure. Now, I spoke to a couple of activists who are back in Minneapolis, and they were saying to me

that they believe when it comes to Derek Chauvin and the other officers that nothing major is going to happen, that they're not going to get the maximum penalty because they believe that that momentum that was going last summer with people demanding that police departments be defunded and that these officers be sentenced and convicted, that that pressure has left, that people are back to work, people are back to shopping, people are back to just functioning the way they were before George Floyd was killed. So how do people continue to apply that pressure and keep that momentum? Because people have to go back to their regular lives at some point, right? People have to tend to the things that are happening immediately in

front of them. But how can people, especially in the black community, continue to keep up with it so that those in power, right, so that the judges, the attorneys, law enforcement know that the black community has not given up and they haven't forgotten. Well, we have to utilize our power. You know, everyone is watching this show on their computer or watching it on their smartphone. So every day you can actually get together, you can make videos that talk about what your expectations are in relationship to what's going on there and many of these other egregious actions that continue to happen. We have to make sure that we're doing that. That pushes the media. The media follows where the

energy is and where the flow is. So if we are continuing to call it out, and not just a handful of folks, but you literally have millions of folks or at least tens of thousands of folks who are calling you know, calling it out each and every day, then that pushes pressure. And then the other part of it is on the economic side. By making sure that we are understanding whom is supporting these types of, you know, negative things through infrastructure and through also their investments, and then hit them in the pocket. You know, I'm a big proponent of economic boycotts.

If you can get enough folks focused and it will get people's attention and it will keep enough pressure that hopefully then the court system does the right thing. And when it doesn't, we don't give up and we just stop and say, well, that didn't work. You continue in these movements. If you want systemic change to happen, then that means that, yeah, you've got an everyday life going on, but these actions are actually impacting your everyday life. So you've got to carve out a small amount of time to invest. And you've got to also support shows, whether on the radio, like the folks that we have on the panel today, or on this show,

that every time you are supporting them so that that message continues to resonate time and time and time again. All right, Mustafa. And like you said, hitting them in the pockets, that definitely works. Now, Michael, final thoughts on this. Well, I think Mustafa is correct when we talk about economic withdrawal strategies and the different types of economic withdrawal strategies. One, we know that a lot of people are invested in privatized prisons and don't know it. It's through their 401k plans, it's through their pension fund plans. So if we look in the city of New York in June of 2017, city employees of the city of New York withdrew $48 million from privatized prisons.

They were invested through their 401 plan and pension fund plans. There are different ways we can redistribute the pain, as Dr. King said, April 3, 1968. We also know that a lot of people are invested in entertainment companies that finance a lot of these right-wing conservative politicians or et cetera. You can go to FEC.gov, Federal Elections Commission. FEC.gov, Federal Elections Commission for federal elections, U.S. House of Representatives, U.S. Senate and president, you can look and see which corporations and which people donated

to these particular candidates. And then you can galvanize support around different types of economic withdrawal strategies against them as well. So there are things that we can do. We see that. I posted an article a couple of days ago from 2015 from CNN that talked about how University of Columbia divested from privatized prisons because a lot of people don't know that universities, many universities are invested in privatized prisons as well.

The students at the college started doing research and found out their university was invested in privatized prisons. So between privatized prisons, between entertainment companies that put out negative images of African Americans, there are different ways we can redistribute the pain. Okay. Candace, final thoughts? You know what? People should remind themselves about what happened because sometimes our memory

sometimes forces us to put things on the cutting room floor that shouldn't be there. Go back and watch the police cam of Thomas Lane in the weeks leading up to this trial, March 8th, of Derek Chauvin. Remind yourself about what happened. And I say Thomas Lane because it's 34 minutes, and it gives you a real comprehensive view all the way to George Floyd is in the truck, being forced to stay alive with a machine. And often we don't see that video. But we can't forget, and you can't forget if you watch it. And the more you watch it, the more that you will find yourself involved and force yourself to understand the law. Because a lot of things happen and don't happen because we don't know the right questions to ask and we don't have people involved and understand what's going on to even formulate a question. So the more informed you come, the better. I went to the store

and someone said to me when I checked out, would you like to make a donation to the NAACP for Black History Month? And I said, now come again, what did you say? Because that's never happened. No one's ever in my years while I was at the mall asked me if I wanted to make a donation to the NAACP while checking out at a store that everybody's heard of. So, I mean, it's going to be little by little, but things will change. All right. Thank you so much. Candace Kelly, legal analyst, Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali, former senior advisor for environmental justice at EPA, and Michael Emotep, host of the African History Network show. Thank you guys so much for joining me today. Now, coming up next, I'll show you an interview Roland did with The Temptations co-founder Otis Williams about the late, great Mary Wilson.

We'll be right back. We all know who's to blame for the deadly act of sedition at the Capitol. We're going to walk down to the Capitol. Trump couldn't win honestly. And when he couldn't get the courts to overturn the election for him, he tried to incite a violent mob to do it by force you'll never take back our country with weakness you have to show strength and you have to be strong senate republicans you sworn oath now it's time to do your duty reclaim your party vote to convict donald trump he's guilty you You think about the fact that 2043, we are going to be a nation that's majority people of color. I've really focused on this a lot on educational, economic power at the same time. Because there's nothing worse than having demographic numbers. But then you still don't have that economic power, that political power, that education power and education power? Well you know you and I and I think most

people know and understand that education is what we've got to impress on all of our people. We've got to help people to understand that if you want a decent quality of life, if you want the kind of quality of life where you're not having to worry about your food and your nutrition and, you know, being able to pay your bills or buy a house, then you've got to become educated. The more education you have, the larger the paycheck is. And of course, we've got to be involved in entrepreneurship, taking the talent that we have to create businesses. And there's a lot of opportunity for that. I'm Bill Duke. This is Deala Riddle, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Stay woke.

All right, let's go to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where the multi-million dollar Black-owned testing site called MCI Diagnostic Center is headquartered. Now, the center, which opened in November of last year, offers national laboratory testing. The center is capable of turning around results in a 24-hour time period, which is vital during a pandemic where the U.S. has seen more than 476,000 deaths and 27.4 million confirmed cases of COVID-19. Earlier, Roland spoke with Colleen Payne-Neighbors, the testing site's founder, to discuss more. Take a look. All right, Colleen, let's talk about this here. So when we look at what's been happening around the country, we were promised, you know,

massive testing in parking lots and Walmart and Walgreens and all these things. And we had Dr. Nunez-Smith, who co-chairs the Biden COVID task force, who said that we still are not where we need to be when it comes to COVID testing in this country. Just as someone who owns a facility, just your thoughts on where we stand when it comes to COVID testing. We are, Roland, we are so far behind on testing. And now I think part of the issue is that we are seeing what we call COVID fatigue, which means that a lot of people believe that COVID is not as severe or as frightening as it was. So therefore, we're not being tested. And the ratio of asymptomatic people are even greater.

So we look at our drive-thru and our sites that we do on a daily basis and realize that we're not touching half of the population that we should be touching. That's a huge issue still continuing in this country today. And obviously African-Americans are impacted and we don't have a lot of African-Americans who are leading places where they actually do COVID testing. So talk about that, what it has been for you and your company in this space. So being on the ground as being one of the largest African-American facilities in the country and being on the ground from day one, we were on the task force for Dr. Briggs

because we had the technology. We've been all over this country testing. And the greatest distortion that we see is African Americans. I can look at our lines and I can stand up and I can say as a laboratory owner who is of African American descent, I know that African Americans are not coming to our sites. They're not being tested.

And what we've attempted to do is we've attempted to be in the spaces. We've attempted to go to the churches, we locations in the underserved areas to support. And it's getting out that word that we still need to be tested. I mean, I we cannot emphasize that enough in this country for people of color. You talk about getting that information out. I mean, that's, I was, I was texting Dr. Ebony Hilton and I was sharing with her what we have been seeing, uh, where you've had these folks giving out even the vaccines and, uh, and, uh, places where the predominantly African-American and largely whites in the lines.

And she said, she said, I don't believe that this is really about folks not wanting to take the vaccine, she said, but even knowing, having the information of where it's actually happening. Same thing, when it comes to testing, do you think it's because we just simply did not do a major, major information effort. And so we had Donald Trump and his folks leading this whole thing and just, oh, don't wear

a mask or downplaying it. They just simply caused so many people not to focus on it and did not truly marshal the federal resources to make this a national emergency. Oh, absolutely. This started from the top. This could have been so much better ran from the administration standpoint. And when you look at all of the states scrambling for a unity plan, we don't have it. None of the school systems can open up correctly just because the head of the country didn't give us a plan. This was easy. This could have all been

aborted had we had the correct information from the top. So now what you have is every single state trying to devise its own plan, school systems trying to devise a plan with no direction, no guidance from the White House. So a lot of this, a lot of what we've seen and have seen and have gone through could have 100 percent been avoided had we had direction and we had guidance. And we explained to the population that this was much more serious than what we're seeing now. And today, I don't think that there's anyone in this country that is untouched by death or loss with COVID. It is just, you know, and now we're so immune to people dying of COVID that it is happening so fast that we don't even get to react.

We just go, oh, you know, there's no sadness to this. And we're losing people at an alarming rate. It is incredible that we're still facing this. And now we're losing more people. I think it took us maybe months for me to personally see someone die in my own personal family. But now those deaths are coming more rapidly to most people. And what we see here in our laboratory, same thing. We're testing people over and over. And you come in one day and we test you. And, you know, two days later, you're coming back.

And the next day you're in ICU. So it's very, very critical. It's very critical. I cannot express how critical this is to continue to get us tested, but I also want to express that it is not so much as to get us continually tested as we need to be in the conversation for the vaccine. That is the most important thing that I can express here today. And when you talk about being a black laboratory, the reality is having that connection

with the community is also important because for African-Americans, it also comes down to trust. And that frankly hasn't been easy as you all have had to contend because look, we're dealing with big business. We're dealing with companies that this is a multi-billion dollar industry.

When you talk about PPE, when you start talking about masks, we start talking about testing and vaccines. We're talking billions of dollars and a very few African-Americans who are involved. Absolutely. So if you notice that when all of this first started, the big companies, they've gone after everybody else. And they initially, some of the larger laboratories were sending, you know, 5,000 and 10,000 kits to some of our underserved inner city communities. But the problem was they were just throwing money and throwing kits that the government was paying for. But unfortunately, they didn't have anyone that would go to our communities and provide that service. So MCI Diagnostics, we took foot. We saw it.

We were on the ground in Atlanta for almost 60 days straight. We, of course, are based in Dallas, Texas. So we've supported our communities here. But the biggest thing is that we don't have enough people. And the big laboratories, now they're throwing testing to our communities. But see, when we needed you most, you didn't come. And now that the money is kind of like at the end of it, now they're getting with our leaders, our African-American leaders, and saying, we want to come and test the community. But the issue becomes, you needed to test us when you were testing everyone else. And so what I have been fortunate enough to do in our community here is that I've been fortunate

enough to teach a number of African-American churches how to self-collect with their ministries and be able to send those tests back to us so that we can test, so that we can get African-American churches back open. Because I think that the biggest support for us in saving us at this moment is to have our church leaders advise us testing the vaccine. Those are things that are most important in this season for us. What, obviously, this new administration, from your vantage point, have you seen a change, if you will? Have you seen in the last three weeks a really change in how things have been going when it comes to dealing with COVID? Honestly, I would like to say that we have a lot of conversations around COVID.

We have a lot of conversations around the vaccine. But unfortunately, we still don't have the vaccine in any underserved area, most of our underserved areas. We do not have enough people of color administering those vaccines. And I can tell you from our own perspective that the roadblocks that are put into being a provider, 99% of healthcare professionals that are of African-American descent will never be a provider to carry the vaccine from HL7 interfaces to being connected to the health departments, to data loggers, to storage. Those are all obstacles that 100% face, that we face. And so even though the African-American community can support the African-American community,

they have made it so difficult for you to qualify as a provider. So I'm a provider, but we're still fighting in the state of Texas and Oklahoma to get the vaccine. We are very fortunate. We have a laboratory in Atlanta that we are being able to provide services there, but they've made it so difficult for people of color that do not own a laboratory, and most of us do not, to hold and carry the vaccine. Refrigeration, certificates of compliance for the refrigeration, no one has that. So how do we support our communities? How do we reach that level of population? It's going to be very difficult for us to do that. We're one laboratory, and we're trying to support as many as we can.

But then you have to give us the vaccine because people of color trust people of color. I look like you. My mother looks like you. My sisters look like you. And I can show up and say that what we're going to do is going to benefit you. And then we've done a lot of testing ourselves to look at the vaccine. I personally have had the vaccine. I've had my first and second injection as a healthcare professional. And so I was able to do a test on me after I got the first vaccine to make sure that I could have this conversation.

We were not given the vaccine. I can test that. And I, too, now have antibodies that are growing. I do believe in herd immunity, which means that we've been on the ground collecting for almost a year. And a great 90 percent of my staff has never had COVID. So we've been exposed. But I also wanted to be able to have the conversation to say that I took the vaccine. I took first and second. I tested me each and every time after the first injection to look to see if I actually had COVID or if I was injected so that I could say to the people of color, we are not being injected with COVID. And then the biggest thing

is in this season is once you have the vaccine, you want to make sure that we have antibodies growing inside the body, that it gives us that level of protection with the vaccine, Pfizer or Moderna. So when you say you believe in herd immunity, your folks have been exposed, did they have it? So when you say exposed, what does that mean? So a lot of times when people have been in the house for an extended period of time because everyone was kind of afraid to come out, we've been on the ground since day one. We've been exposed. We've contacted. We've collected. We've collected in multiple states. We've collected around the nation. MCI has been in D.C., Maryland, Atlanta, Georgia, Houston, North Carolina, Florida. So we've been in a lot of places and herd immunity grows when you want one, you have that exposure.

And we've had no one on my team except for two people out of the families and the people, the lives that we cover that have ever had COVID. And one of them was because someone went to Branson, Missouri. So herd immunity is being exposed and being, it's sort of like having the flu. Sometimes you're around people that have the flu, but you never get it. And that's what this country is trying to attempt to do is by getting so many people vaccinated

that we start developing herd immunity. I, you know, I could say that I got tired. I've seen a lot with this virus, too much. Things that no one person should ever see, we have seen. So, you know, it got really scary. I was one of those people early on that said that I didn't, I didn't think that I wanted the vaccine. A lot of healthcare professionals are saying that.

But you have to take it because otherwise we are, it's a form of genocide for African-Americans and people of color if we do not stand in those lines to take the vaccine. All right. That's it for us. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. attending school remotely and parents aren't necessarily thrilled with how their kids are being taught. Some parents have removed their kids from public schools and placed them in private institutions. Some parents have gone as far as moving to different states so that their kids can attend school in person.

This is great for those who can afford it, but for those who usually can't are those in black and Hispanic communities. So joining me to discuss this further is Sarah Carpenter, executive director of the Memphis Lift, Dr. Howard Fuller, civil rights activist and education reform advocate, Delvin Champagne, school choice advocate, and Margaret Fortune, president and CEO of Fortune School. Now, Howard, I would like to start with you. Would you say that public schools are failing minority students? And is Biden administration, is the Biden administration the answer? Well, let me answer the second part of it first. No administration is the answer, least of all the Biden administration.

And I say that because Biden, to me, has essentially sold out to the teachers union. And as long as I've been at this, I can say for certainty that anybody who has sold out to the teachers union, whatever policies that they pursue in general, are not going to be in the interest of our students. That's the first thing I would say. The second thing I would say is that this issue of our kids going back to school and not going back to school is not a simple answer. And the reason why it's not simple

is because the first thing I think we have to be concerned about is the health of not just our kids, but the kids' families, the people who serve meals, the people who drive buses, all of the Black people who have all of a sudden become essential workers and have had their health put at risk so the rest of us could be on Zoom.

So even though I understand the difficulty of making that decision around sending kids back to school, I don't want us to sit here and think that it's a simple issue of, y'all just need to go back to school. I don't want us to sit here and think that it's a simple issue of y'all just need to go back to school. And because I'm saying, and I'll say it very clearly, until it is clear that it is safe for all of the people involved for our kids to go back to school, we need to be very leery of that. And the one thing that I know is that schools that serve poor black and brown kids, they're not likely to have all of the resources that they need to make sure that it's safe to go back to school.

Now, Howard, what you're saying, a lot of teachers would agree with you. I'm not sure if you saw this picture was circling around of a Chicago teacher, a Chicago public school teacher who was sitting outside of the school building in the snow because he felt like it wasn't safe for him to teach inside of the building. I think he had just had a newborn child. And so essentially he wanted to protect his health, the health of his child, the health of his wife, and felt like it wasn't something he didn't want to put their health in jeopardy. But a lot of people are concerned, right? A lot of people are concerned about their health, but it's also the students, right? Students right now who come from, let's say, Baltimore City Public Schools, where I taught, where they weren't learning what they were supposed to be learning in the first place. They were already behind.

And now they're on Zoom and they're even further behind than where they should be. So, Margaret, I'm going to address you. What's the solution? What needs to be done? There are pros and cons to both sides here. I think it's a toxic mix of the politics and the public health facts. And I'm in a state, California, where most of the schools have been shut down. You have a coordination of the big city superintendents and the teachers union to say that we're not going back to school until everybody is vaccinated. The governor, Governor Newsom, is facing a recall that is in part fueled by the inability to get schools back open. But as a school leader myself, I run a school system with 2,300 kids. Sixty-five percent of them are African-American.

Opening and closing school is no simple matter. And what we've done, at least in this state, is to put schools in a position where they open up, they close back down. There's lack of clarity about what the direction that the state is going in and the county is going in. And yet you have schools that have put serious safety precautions in place to make returning to school safe for kids and for teachers. For example, universal testing programs, you know, making sure that the heating and air conditioning units are hospital grade to kill infection. Kids being, you know, having the temperature checks at the door, training around contact tracing. So I think that what's happening in our state is that there's

a ramp up in terms of vaccination, in terms of identifying where vaccinations are going to happen, but we don't actually have the vaccine. So the last thing I'll say on this is that there's a timing issue. Biden has set as a priority to get schools reopened within his first 100 days. Well, his 100 days ends at about near the end of April. So are we going to open up schools just to shut them back down for the summer? I think that what is likely to happen in places where schools are not open is that schools are going to be gearing up for opening in the fall. And I think that we should be fully prepared to open in the fall, whether that's hybrid or in-person socially distanced.

Delvin, I want to ask you, what are your thoughts? Do you believe that kids should be going back to school now or we should wait? Delvin, are you on mute? Can you hear me now? I can hear you now. Yeah, sorry. So here in Maryland, the governor just gave a pretty much a mandate for schools to open back up on by March 1st. But I think that schools, that the local schools should partner with the state and they should try to be as accommodating to students, especially students with special needs, IEP students, students with English as a second language, and we call them FARM, free and reduced meal students.

I think that it's important that we focus on those students first because they are the ones that have the lowest proficiency and they're more at risk for lower outcomes going forward. Sarah, what are your thoughts when it comes to especially minority kids who are already behind their white counterpart? And right now, when it comes to using Zoom, it's really not functional for a lot of schools and for a lot of students where they may not, for example, have the best Wi-Fi. Or I know when I was teaching last year, some of the students, they weren't required to have on their cameras or to participate in class. So you don't know whether the kid is there, if they're asleep, they're somewhere else. You don't know if they're retaining the information. And so obviously in person could be a lot better. But right now, obviously, we're in the middle of a pandemic. But what do

you think should be done in the immediate? Well, we surveyed like over a thousand parents and we believe in parents' choice. And today our district announced that they're going to open back up March the 1st, but we are demanding a crystal clear safety plan. And I want to piggyback on what Margaret said that, you know, we got to have the safety measures in place. It's tough on parents. We talk to parents every day. And it's parents getting frustrated. The children are getting frustrated. But we want our children to be safe because we know that COVID have hit the black and brown community in a major way. And personally, it hit my family also. So I know my boys are ready to go back to school

because they don't want to be at home with grandma because I'm always like, get online. Are you online? What class are you in? And I'm on them, you know. So we work for parents and we surveyed our parents and they want to make the choice if they want to send their children back to school.

So that's what we push for, to let the parents make the choice if they want to send their children back to school. But me, myself, I don't know about my grandchildren going back to school and coming back to me because I have underlying issues. Okay. And like you, Sarah, a lot of people are in that condition. And like you said, COVID has hit the minority communities, the black and brown communities the most. And safety does come first. And a lot of people are saying Biden trying to send kids back to school in his first 100 days is a big mistake. But we'll just have to wait and see what happens. So thank you so much. Again, that's Sarah Carpenter,

executive director of the Memphis Lift, Dr. Howard Fuller, civil rights activist and education reform advocate, Delvin Champagne, school choice advocate, and Margaret Fortune, president and CEO of Fortune School. We will continue this conversation. All right, let's take a look now at an interview Roland did with The Temptations co-founder Otis Williams, who remembers the late, great Mary Wilson, who was the co-founder of The Supremes. Wilson died suddenly in her Las Vegas home on Monday at the age of 76. We used to do a lot of record hops and then that's when we started sitting there, you know, well, that's when we saw Barry Gordon and he had heard our records come on and he said, I like you guys' records. Come see me. I'm starting my company.

And as fate would have it, we had a falling out with Janet Mae Matthews because she sold a master to a larger company in New York, came back, and she was discounting out a lot of money, a lot of money. And I said, oh, wow, that's great, Janet. And she said, yeah, you guys will be able to be heard all over the country not because we got national distribution and i said okay great i said well don't we get a royalty or some kind of statement because i wrote uh come on and she said no you're not getting any of this money this is my money. And so I said, well, fine, we'll leave. And at the time, I must have been about 18,

said about that. She said, well, if you leave, I'll take the car that I got you guys, the name and the uniform. My report was, fine, you can do that. We young, we'll start off somewhere else. And I remember I kept Mr. mr gordy's car and i called and mickey stevens was the a and i man and i said um mickey uh barry asked us to come over

if we should leave where we uh and we did and uh shortly after we signed with Barry, that's when I started seeing Mary, Diana, Florence. And she wasn't Diana then. She was just Diane. And Florence, Mary, Barbara, and who did I leave off? Florence, Mary, Barbara, and Diane. Yeah. Florence. Yeah, Flo, Mary, Diane, and Barbara.

It was four of them for a minute. Yeah. But then Barbara decided to leave because I guess she wanted to start a family. So we would do shows together. You know, the Diana, or rather the Supremes, and my group was the Temps at the time. And let me tell you about Florence Ballard.

See, Bear had good ears on him, you know, because we used to do these cabarets and at the time Ray Charles was hot with Night and Day. I know they had Night and Day and that part when Margie Hendrick,rick whatever my name was she would do this baby she would score all that so when um flo did that part the people at the cabaret or wherever we were performing would fall out because flo could deliver it and she had that kind of voice and but when they signed with hometown every day must have heard another kind of thing

in Diana's voice and said, you be the lead singer, because Diana had that kind of voice that was not that R&B, but I guess to sell records, she had that kind of voice that Blacks and Whites could understand and relate to. And that's how she became the lead singer for the Supremes.

So we have that kind of history that we used to do record house and cabarets together and just, you know, be in the same studio. We'd come out of the studio, they'd be going in and vice versa. So it goes all the way back to the early 60s. And naturally, during the the Motown Review tours and then we did the Bury the Case show in Brooklyn, New York. And so we did quite a few big heavyweight shows together so it was a bonding that the Supremes and I said way back then and Mary even after the Supremes no longer were together you know we always stayed in touch.

And I really moved on. I went back to my bedroom. She had sent me a card earlier, I guess about a couple of months ago. And, you know, it was like, I'll see you on Christmas card. And at the end of it, she said, Otis, I am so proud of you,

what you have been able to do. And I sat there and I read that card and I started crying. And I understand. And of course, always when we were talking, either when I would text her or whatever, I would always end up saying so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so to my Mary. And one time she said, yes, I am your Mary. You know, and so that was our connection. And I was laughing when I saw the picture of her and I standing at the opening of my play on Broadway.

And so whatever I had on, Mary was funny. She looked at me, she said, ah, you sure look good. Who's your woman? What's your woman? I said, come on, Mary, we've been knowing each other all these years. And we ain't never hit on each other. She said, well, I don't know about your name, but you you show look good and so i'm thinking about all those kind of times so we just had a wonderful time and wonderful history together so i'm saying uh that uh you know it had

to come to me you know i heard that because i was told that they had to break a door down to get into a house you know so um so we're still waiting to find out uh more but i hear that i'm gonna have a private uh uh you know session i had talked to um um eddie lavert and he said that she that she had some stints placed in in december um that she had some stents placed. She had surgery in December. That's what he told me. Right, that's what I heard.

Yeah, I didn't know that because I just found that out, you know, not too long ago, fairly recent. Because, as I don't know, she never did mention that to me, you know, during the times that we talked and uh with text you know she would call and see I just called and see how you're doing I said oh I'm just in here chilling you know so um but she never mentioned that she had stent well it was interesting go ahead go ahead no I was just saying uh the guy that used to sing with his Larry Braggs he had stent put in his, I guess his heart or something, you know, but he's doing all right.

So anyway, what you thought, interesting, right? Well, it was interesting because, you know, she, we ran it last night. She dropped a video, she dropped a YouTube video. She recorded just a couple of days before she passed. And matter of fact, Shirley Ralph did a video video said she had talked to her the night before and you know one of the things that I said last night is that just like you know with Cicely Tyson I said hey you know folk you know that they worked up until the last second the video she dropped she was talking about the new music she was

releasing this month with Universal it was like a four and a half minute video and was just amazing because you know she was just new music she was releasing this month with Universal. It was like a four and a half minute video. And it was just amazing because, you know, she was just smiling and she was talking about, you know, all of these things she was doing in Black History Month. And she said, okay, folks, I'm going to do a video later to share with y'all what I'm doing the rest of the month. And then that was, that was the last video she posted. Wow.

Well, we just lost a beautiful spirit, you know? So I wanted to call on her, give you a little insight. Growing up together and knowing that she was just her and Diane and Troy, that was just one block from the building that I lived in, downtown. It's amazing. It's amazing how you talk about growing up. You talk about y'all growing up and being near each other.

And I think that's something that a lot of people just don't realize, just the proximity. When Aretha Franklin's funeral, Smokey Robinson talked about that as well. Just how there was so much of this talent in just a few blocks living next to each other. That's right because Barrett Strong and I, we lived across the street from one another when we moved from downtown Detroit to the north end of Detroit on Custer, Custer between Brush and John R. And I would see Barrett, you know, even way back then.

But little did we know that we would have a connecting history, you know, later on down the line when we were at Motown. Because, you know, he had his first big hit was Money. And that Barrett and Jane Bradford wrote, you know. And then next thing I know, he came off the road and started writing songs. And some of our biggest hits, you know, and then next thing I know, he came off the road and started writing songs and some of our biggest hits, you know, Barrett and Norman Strong wrote. So, yeah, Detroit is just loaded with talented people, you know, especially back then. And I would imagine now.

The thing that I think that was just, you know, and I've done so many interviews with folks. And it's just even as you reflect now, I mean, just you think about just all of all of y'all in that small building, everybody living their dream. And and, you know, and just all of those down moments, just laughing and talking. And it had to be something, y'all, you talking to Mary and the Supremes about their vision, what they want to do in the future, y'all sharing it with them. And all of those things happened where y'all became some of the most celebrated acts in American history and are known across the world.

Yeah. You know, I've always said, and I really believe it even more so, history and unknown across the world? I've always said, and I really believe it even more so, I tell people Motown Records was no happenstance. God and his infinite wisdom brought that little two-story family flat that housed all of those talented people, songwriters, producers, musicians, all the people that worked at Motown to help Motown flourish. People at that company during the 60s, which has been noted as the most tumultuous decade within the last 100 years.

But yet, here comes this company that created this music that helped in a whole lot of ways bring people together to help galvanize us because we were a very disruptive country and everything during the 60s. And I never will forget when we had the chance on a world tour and we were in Hong Kong. And I ran into three soldiers and that was 75 the war Vietnam this is finished in 74 75 and they stopped me and they said mr. Williams we don't mean to bother you but we got to tell you something I said well man you know I'm gonna listen to you guys cuz y'all over there doing what we couldn't do he said when we were in the jungle fighting, putting our lives on the line,

and fortunately we would be able to get back to the base, he said the first thing we would ask, put on Motown Records, put on The Temptations, put on The Supremes. He said, you guys, that company helped make us, helped to make us through some very, very bad times. And as they were telling me this, they were standing there crying. And I started welling up, too, because it was so emotional to hear these guys talk about what Motown's music did. And he said, we just had to get back to the world.

And that's what they referred to as America, the world. And he said, I just wanted to let you guys know, Motown was so important in our survival that we had to get back. So we stood there and chit-chat just a little bit longer. And then they went on and I stood there and I said, wow, you mean to tell me Motown music is that profound, that guys land their lives on the line. When they get back to the base, the first thing they want to hear

is some music by the Motown, Temptation, Surprise, Marvelous, Stevie Wonder, Miracles, Marvin Gaye. So that company was no happenstance. God brought that company along at that point in time for a very special reason. I got to ask you. Like I've always said. Go ahead. No, no, no. Go ahead. You said like I always said. That music, I just got a plaque from my,

sent it off to the registry of, about music. And Motown, and my girl is over 50 years old. I would have never imagined that that record, and then when I heard it, when Smokey wrote it for us, I just said, okay, another great song. And let me cut this here now so I can. When we recorded My Girl, it was another great song by Smokey.

And, you know, we went in and recorded, Paul Reiser added the strings and horns on it. And then I came out of the studio and came back into the control room as Smokey was sitting there at the control room at the desk. And I said, Smokey, I don't know how big a record this is going to become, but I said, well, this is going to be a hit. Motown released My Girl December of 1964. February of 1965, we were at the Apollo. Barry sent a telegram congratulating us that my girl was number one.

And the Beatles sent us a telegram. The Supremes sent us a telegram. And the owner of the cabana, they all sent telegrams congratulating us about my girl being a hit. I never would have imagined that that song now is looked upon as a standard. One day we were out somewhere, me and my lady, and I heard Tony Bennett.

I'm a big Tony Bennett fan. I said, I sound like Tony Bennett. And I'm listening and I said, wait a minute. Is he singing My Girl? He was singing My Girl. Now, you know when you get Tony Bennett singing My Girl, that song has arrived. Somebody told me, he's the oldest.

Motown, I mean, My Girl, that is a standard. It ain't just another R&B song or whatever. He said, no, no, no, no, that's a standard. I said, yeah, I guess you're right. Anytime the great Tony Bennett is singing My Girl, I said, there it is. But yeah, Motown is something special, you know, like I said, to house all of those very talented songwriters,

producers, talented people, and all the people that help make Motown, the secretaries, the engineers, the janitors, everybody factored into making Motown the company it is. And when we are on stage, there's a sit-down session that we do. And I said, no, I'm not knocking the CBS's, the ABC's, Columbia, none of those great companies. I said, but there will never ever be a company like Motown. And I would lay out the reason why, because Motown taught us we have to go to school.

No other company in the record business ever had a division called Art of Development. And we had to go there to be taught how to get on stage the right way, how to come off stage the right way, how to carry yourself when you're out in the public. Because Ms. Edwards would tell us, and that was Barry's oldest sister, she said, they're going to watch you more off stage than on stage. So we said, really? Why is that? They said, they know watch you more off stage than on stage so we said really

why is that they said they know what you're supposed to do on stage they want to see what kind of person you're going to be when you're not on stage i never forgot that and then she said four things i want you guys to always remember not to get into any conversation about don't talk to people about politics, religion, money, or who they are making love to. And I said, you're right, because if you open up that to the public, you could kill your career. So we had to go to school to be taught certain things. And I'm so glad because it has helped us to be around all these years. And all the guys that I've had in my group, I've had to tell them that, man, don't be trying to talk to nobody about those four things. Because if you do, you're subject to a whole lot of trouble or attempts.

You know, so they just had a whole lot of wonderful things that any other company, they're not going to provide. Because, I mean, you would have to hire somebody to have that kind of knowledge to teach us that. We'd have to be in artist development sometime at 10, 11 o'clock in the morning. And at 6 o'clock in the evening, you're talking about being in school, when they say, all right, Charlie Atkinson would be our choreographer, and Maurice King, our vocal coach, all right, that's it for the day, Tim. Five guys would be running out there, like five,

Jesse Owens getting out of there because they were proud of you. But it paid off. Yeah, I gotta ask you this here. Everybody talks about that one line from the movie, David Ruffin, Otis, ain't nobody paying you to sing. Last night, I- Let me tell you. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Leon was at the play in New York, and he told me he improvised it. That was not written in the script. I said, uh-huh. I said, well, I got you now. I said, Leon, take a look. Look around you. The place where the play was now all the people

were standing up just shouting my name i said what you gonna say now leon he said you got me so david ruffin never said that to you no wow no see people so so Leon, obviously he took license. Yeah, he took liberties. Hold on, hold on. Let me see. Hold on. Hold on. No, no.

That never was written in. He took liberties and just added that. Because basically it sounded like something Ruffin would say. Here's the thing. So now that we know Ruffin never said that to you, but here's what I still think is important, because last night I asked in Vogue this when I was talking about Mary Wilson, because because Barry decided, you know, he's going to put Diana Ross out front. I said, but a group survives because of the glue.

Otis, you there? I'm here. I'm listening. OK, sorry. A group survives because of the glue. No one person makes a group. And the reality is the temptations would not exist today if you didn't do what you did. Mary, everybody says, was the glue behind the Supremes. So just because somebody might be out front Mary, everybody says, was the glue behind the Supremes.

So just because somebody might be out front doesn't mean that they are the most important player. That person who might be, who's not out front, could be the glue that keeps it all together. Get it dead on the head. You know, I've been told that countless times, Barry Gordon, Shelly Berger, Charlie Atkins, Harvey Fuqua, people that was not connected with Motown, they would say, Otis, if it wasn't for you, and you've had some of the damnedest singers around you, there wouldn't be no temptation if it wasn't for you. You know, you are the glue of the camps. And when we started out singing, I was one of the lead singers. We were at the distance, and even at

our second record, Check Yourself, that's me starting it out. By and by, you knew that you made me cry. Yeah, so I was one of the lead singers, but my thinking has always been I wasn't hung up that, well, I got to be the lead singer.

I put it together. My thing was I wanted us to make it. They weren't making any more money than me. We were all getting paid the same money. So it wasn't like, what? You didn't pay? Man, bring me a song that me sang a lead on it. Then if it's going to be like that.

No. All five of us were getting the same kind of money they're also but Morris King he said oh you got some talented and Morris King was our vocal coach and child Eric and Chirographer and they would pull me to side. He said you got some talented guys They were last this group unless if you wasn't there Isn't it also important though? isn't it also important, though? Isn't it also important?

Isn't it the lesson for people also, Otis, is that you said remove ego. And your deal is, bruh, go do your thing. Because if you making all of us get rich, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. That's been my attitude. I mean, I hate losing a David,

Eddie, or Paul at Health and Melbourne. But the Dennis's, the Ollie Woodson, I've had some of the baddest singers in the business around me. They have helped make Temptations one of the most imitated, creative,

love group in the world. Yesterday, I was talking with this young man, this sister called, and she said, Otis, I have to look up his name. She said, it's a man, black man, that runs or either owns, she said, owns a $100 million business. She loves you, Otis. She loves the temptation. I said, oh, really? She said she got him on the phone, and I'm holding on, and he was talking to somebody else important.

And he told her, I'll call you right back. I got to talk to Otis Williams. He's on the line. I'm sitting there listening, so it makes me say, geez, I mean, I just do what I do. I mean, I don't think, you know, if you cut me, I'll bleed. I put my pants leg on one leg at a time and I damn sure don't levitate, but people look at me in a whole nother kind of way in that respect. You know, anytime you got a brother that's a hundred minutes, yeah.

I don't know what you're listening about. I think that's I mean, but again, though, it's a sign of respect. It's a sign of a great appreciation. And I think that it's the same thing when what En Vogue said last night

when they were like schoolgirls when they met Mary Wilson. Right. Shirley Ralph talked about it. And, again, for you, you know, growing up with somebody, seeing someone, and then obviously they go from elder to ancestor. I do have to ask you this here. One of the things that every time I met her,

she always had this amazing smile. And, of course, she always cracked me up because in every photo she was like, hold up, I got to get the cleavage in. She always cracked me up. She's like, I got to get the cleavage in the photo. I said, Mary, you are hilarious. Yes, she is.

Yeah, she sure was. And you know what? Once the play gets back on Broadway, because, you know, with this pandemic and everything, it shut down on Broadway. And there's a part where Melvin loved him so Mary Wilson, you know, but she liked Melvin, but not

in the sense of them getting together. So there's a scene in the play where they do this scene and then Mary comes walking across the stage and Jawan, who plays Melvin, he said, well, I see you because I see me. So I'm missing Mary Wilson. And they walk off together and the audience would laugh.

That's going to have another kind of hit now that Mary's no longer here. So it's going to make people think of Mary in a loving, fun way. But every time I saw that, I said, yeah, Melvin really liked him some Mary Wilson, but she just liked Melvin as a friend, you know, so, yeah, you know, when I stop and think back about Mary, beautiful spirit, I know one time when the Supremes were really rolling real good, I think the street is called Waverly

in the northwest section of Detroit. Diane, Mary, and Florence, they bought homes right across from one another. And Diana had a house side by side, and Mary bought a house right on the corner of Waverly and I can't pick it up across the street. Mary at the time was, you know, so she showed us a house, you know, that's that beautifully done. And went upstairs to check it out. I said, will I be there? You got a round bed? She said, you know, Mary being funny. Yeah, that's right,

baby. I got a round bed. And I had never seen a round bed before, said, you know, Mary B, I thought, yeah, that's right, baby. I got a round bed. And I had never seen a round bed before, but she had one of the first that I've ever seen, a round bed in her living room. I mean, in her bedroom. Yeah. Well, it was, like I say, it was always great to meet her. I can only imagine what it was like knowing her from the moment she was 15 years old,

growing up to see the success with the Supremes and, of course, y'all with the Temptations. I do have to ask you this. does it make you feel that from from ever since then if you are a girl group you will be compared to the supremes and if you are for the lack of a boy group or a male group everybody y'all are the standard the supremes are the standard for girl or women's groups and the temptations are the standard for girl or women's groups, and the temptations are the standard for boys and male groups. Everybody has to, they're held up to the two of you. That has to feel amazing that in order for them to be, that's the comparison. Y'all are the standard.

Yeah, I've been told that a lot of times. I think for the Timps, we needed a yardstick to measure by. We always, when we first got together, and I'm going back to Paul Eddy, not even David, Al, Brian, Melvin, and myself. And we admired a lot of the great gospel groups. When we would start off our rehearsals, we'd start off singing gospel before we even started doing, you know, contemporary songs,

R&B or the pop songs, because after we would warm up on the Swan Silvertones or Dixon Harmonbirds or something like that, then our first song that we would do is, I never forget, 100 groups. We were all southern boys, so we were raised up listening. I didn't get into contemporary groups of R&B until I moved to Detroit. So I think for us, that was the yardstick that we would measure how we wanted to sound. And like I said, then Mickey Stevens heard us playing, I was singing, and he said, oh, Mr. Gordas, I love you guys because you got that gospel-rich harmony, you know, with Eddie singing higher

and Melvin in the lower, and the rich harmony in between. So for us, I think we always had that as a yardstick to measure how good we want to be. And then naturally, Lake Erie, Paul Williams said, well, you know, we got to be exciting. We have to move. We got to sell six. And that's how we started with the choreographies. But our yardstick of measuring was by the great gospel groups. Well, because when a few a couple years ago um the uh new edition uh uh michael bivins hit me up and they were trapped they were on tour and uh and and bivins he said hey man we're

interspersing these videos from different people uh and during the concert he said i want you to do a video and uh and said, and I did one. And I said, sure. And I said to him in the video, I said, I said, new edition for my generation. They are the temptations of our generation. And I began to unpack that thing. And Bivens was like, oh, man. He said, man, he said, that thing was so powerful.

I said, but that's the case. I said, you said that thing was so powerful i said but i says the case i said you know i was born in 1968 so i grew up on my parents listening listening to listen to motown listen to the temptations but um i said but that wasn't i said when i came of age i said but new addition in terms of the group in terms of presentation. And when they came to Essence, they came out in these tuxedos, and they were, in essence, paying homage to that Temptations look and feel. And I said, that's the deal. Boys to men, same thing, the comparison with the Temptations. And so that's the deal.

You come out as a male group, you're going to be judged by that, and you're going to have to live up to that standard. Sure, sure. Yeah, I've heard that Michael Davis said that they really admired and loved the Temptations because when Motown was in New York, Kadar Massingburg was the president at the time, and as I would come off the elevator and come into Motown office, that was a big

picture. In fact, I'm looking at it, I have a big wall-sized picture of the Temps, and we're walking down Woodward Avenue singing My Girl. And when I saw that, I said, wow, that's nice. I came back to Motown there in New York, and I said,

man, what happened to the picture of the Tims up there? And somebody said, man, Michael Stevens got that. He took that down, and I guess Kadar let him have it. I said, well, damn. First of all, knowing Kadar, he made Michael pay for it. Oh, you know what? You about to have a point there. I love Kadabra. Yeah, yeah. He's a businessman.

Yeah, he is. Well, man, it is always great to chat with you. Man, I last saw you. I ran to you and Ron at the airport, LAX. Y'all were flying somewhere. I was flying somewhere. And it was funny because you were in this wheelchair, and somebody said, you saw Otis in the wheelchair?

I said, let me explain something to y'all. I said, Otis, I ain't got to walk around if necessary. I said, but when it's time to hit that stage, I said, he going to rise up and be ready to roll. Well, you know what? You can just tell him that time I had knee surgery. Oh, there you go. There you go.

I said, but still. I said, but when he hit that stage, because y'all performing the Chicago Urban League, and I was sitting in the front row. Cheryl Jackson was the president. And at one point, y'all had asked two or three of us to come on stage, and I hopped on stage. And y'all were doing the moves and everything. I said, man, I said, y'all had asked two or three of us to come on stage and I hopped on stage and y'all were doing the moves and everything. I said, man, I said, y'all, I said, don't y'all be sleeping on us? I said, um, bros.

And then when Dennis Edwards, he came with the Congressional Black Caucus and Dennis was a huge fan of mine. And I said, man, look, I said, y'all need to understand. I said, all y'all young cats and Ed LaVert with O.J. the same way. Eddie tell these young boys all the time, Eddie said, we will kick y'all ass on that stage, he said, with the singing and the dancing. He said, don't get it twisted. He said, we might be in our 70s, but we'll still kick y'all little young asses.

I hollered. That's what Eddie LaVert always says. Oh. Oh, you know, O.s, I love OJs. I mean, because that's a saying, brother. Well, both of them. I can't just put it all on Ed. Well, I love me some OJs, brothers.

They can sing their answers off. Right. But the thing is, and he said, y'all put on a show. It's the outfits. It's the dancing. It's the music. Yeah. And it's a show. It's the dancing, it's the music. It's a show.

It's not just walking around yelling and screaming. You put on a show for the people. See, and that's artist development. You know, when we would get together, especially after we got David in the group, you know, we would start off singing, a foggy day, a foggy day in London town. we would start off singing A Foggy Day, A Foggy Day in London town. We would start off singing those kind of songs

just to make sure that we could sing not only R&B, the gospel, but if somebody were to ask us to sing something else, like on one of our albums, Tempted and Mellow Moon, we start off with Hello Young Lovers and Impossible Dream. So I have always been blessed to have guys that could sing whatever a producer needed to hear one of his songs delivered. I've always had the voices in my group that could sing anything. We weren't just regimented for R&B. You know, gospel, pop, five-part modern harmony.

We even touched on the ink spots at the copacabana we did uh if i didn't care so i've always had that kind of lineup that we could say anything that was brought to us uh we could sing so and uh like i said oj cold piece of work, those two brothers there especially. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Now, you're based out of what? Are you in L.A.? L.A., yeah. Okay. All right. Well, look, we're going to be – I still do some travel.

We're doing all these different – I got this interview project. I got to get together, man, bring our cameras there. We'll sit down. We'll do all the COVID protections, but I got to sit down and we got to do a one-on-one. I did a one-on-one a couple of years ago with smoking, but we got to do that and get that thing on a, on video. Be glad to just let me know.

All right, sir. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for calling me back. And definitely a man condolences to, for Mary and all of her friends and family. Great sister, but we're going to have some great memories that she left us with. Yes, yes. All right. Thank you. Yes, sir. You take care. All right. See you later. All right. Peace out. Bye-bye.

Well, that's it for Roland Martin Unfiltered. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Ashley Banks. Be sure to follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Ashley M. Banks. Roland will be back on Monday. But in the meantime, feel free to donate to Roland Martin on Filter. You can donate to our Zelle Venmo Cash app and PayPal accounts. And in the words of Roland, holla. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

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