#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Jonathan Majors: Guilty, Navy Federal Mortgage Disparities, Surviving Holiday Blues, Anthony Brown

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

12.18.2023 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Jonathan Majors Guilty, Navy Federal Mortgage Disparities, Surviving Holiday Blues, Anthony Brown  A nine-person New York jury convicts actor Jonathan Majors of misdemeanor assault and harassment in connection with a March 25 incident between his ex-girlfriend, Grace Jabbari. We'll have a special panel to break down what happened in the courtroom that led to a guilty verdict.  Navy Federal Credit Union said the recent mortgage disparities report is inaccurate.   Tonight, we will break the numbers down with BSN's Get Wealthy Host, Deborah Owens, and the CEO of First Independence Bank. The Justice Department launched a database that tracks the misconduct of federal law enforcement officers.  We are in the middle of the holiday season, and many of us are dealing with the blues. We'll talk to a Licensed Professional Counselor about identifying and surviving those holiday blues.  Any my 1-on-1 with gospel artist Anthony Brown, who was part of McDonald's 17th Annual Inspiration Celebration Gospel Tour.  Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox  http://www.blackstarnetwork.com The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. self. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Today is Monday, December 18th, 2023,

coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. A nine-person New York City jury convicts actor Jonathan Majors of misdemeanor assault and harassment in connection with a March 25th incident between his ex-girlfriend, Grace Jabari. We'll break down what took place. Lauren Victoria Burke, she was in the courtroom. We'll also talk to an attorney as well about what this means. Navy Federal Credit Union said the recent mortgage disparities report from CNN is inaccurate. Hmm, really? We'll talk with Blackstar Network's Get Wealthy host, Deborah Owens, the CEO of First Independence Bank,

about this. Also, Attorney Ben Crump has already filed a lawsuit on behalf of two folks who were denied loans. The Department of Justice has launched a database that tracks the misconduct of federal law enforcement officers. We'll tell you about that. Also, we're in the middle of the holiday season, and many of us are dealing with the blues. We'll talk to a licensed professional counselor about identifying and surviving depression during the holidays. Plus, I chat with gospel artist Anthony Brown about the McDonald's 17th annual Inspiration Celebration and Gospel Tour, and also, of course,

about his music and where he stands when it comes to giving the fans what they want. It is time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin-Unfiltered on the Black Star Network, let's go. He's got it. Whatever the piss, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine

And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling, best belief he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling, yeah It's Uncle Roro, y'all Yeah, yeah It's Rolling Martin, yeah, yeah. It's Uncle Roro, yo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Rollin' Marten.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rollin' with Rollin' now. Yeah. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's Rollin' Marten now. Martel A New York jury delivered a split verdict regarding actor Jonathan Majors. He was convicted on two of the four counts he was facing.

The jury found Majors guilty of third-degree assault, recklessly causing physical injury, and a second-degree harassment, but acquitted him on the second-degree aggravated harassment and an additional third-degree assault charge with intent to cause physical harm. Reporter Lauren Victoria Burt was in the courtroom when the verdict was read. She joins us right now. So, Lauren, first off, so many people still are surprised that this even went to a trial. These were not felony charges. They were misdemeanor charges, correct? Right. They were misdemeanor charges. I dare say I would really love to see some statistics on

whether Robert Morgenthau or Cyrus Vance, the two previous district attorneys in Manhattan, have brought this type of misdemeanor case involving assault to a trial. This was, of course, brought by the office of Alvin Bragg, who is the current D.A. in Manhattan. So one of the charges, the jury determined that he did not intend to, it wasn't intentional for him to assault her. So explain these, again, this sort of split verdict. It's really sort of, I think, a little bit difficult to understand. The inside the courtroom logic and body language would tell you that the jury seemed sort of intent on giving him something. There were four counts.

I do think certain jurors were sort of intent in giving him something Kent type with glasses and a comb over, who was the loudest to say yes when the jury was polled, when they read, after they read the verdict, after the four women read the verdict. And understand that the makeup of the jury, it's a six-person jury with two alternates and only one black person of that eight-person group, a black woman, I would say in her 50s, she was probably the quietest to say yes when polled by the clerk in the court as to whether or not she agreed with the verdict. She sort of quietly said yes. And so I thought that was sort of interesting. But I do think there was a sort of pressure there maybe to do something, give him something and not just let him off on all counts. This was the statement from the DA's office. At

the Manhattan DA's office, we are committed to centering survivors in all of our work. The evidence presented throughout this trial illustrated a cycle of psychological and emotional abuse and escalating patterns of coercion far too common across the many intimate partner violence cases we see each and every day. Today, a jury determined that pattern of abuse and coercion culminated with Mr. Major's assaulting and harassing his girlfriend. We thank the jury for its service and the survivor for bravely telling her story despite having to relive her trauma on the stand, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg. Now, here's what's interesting.

You look at that statement there, Lauren. They talk about this pattern. During the trial, they introduced previous text messages from Jonathan Majors to her. They also, I believe, had a previous person testify. But the other thing is that the NYPD felt there was enough there to arrest her. And they did. And they charged Grace Jabari.

But the prosecution chose not to prosecute. And I talked to one attorney who said there's no doubt that if he got convicted, she would have got convicted for assaulting him. Correct. Yeah. So she was she was actually arrested. That was so, of course, downplayed. I do think that part of what Alvin Bragg's office is doing is regardless of what the evidence is, women apparently can never be wrong in any situation. So it didn't matter that Jonathan Majors is on film running away from this person. It didn't matter that we had testimony from a driver,

the only person witnessing them in the car, a driver not hired by Jonathan Majors or Ms. Jabari, by the way, testifying that she did everything and he did nothing. Didn't matter that we had video of, of course, as you're showing right now, Jonathan Majors running through Manhattan away from this person. And apparently it didn't matter that Mr. Bari was out clubbing at Lucy's nightclub at 145 Bowery Street the same night that all this happened and then returns to Mr. Majors' residence and locks him out.

Didn't matter that he called the cops in fear that she might commit suicide. None of that matters, apparently. There's no evidence that matters. Doesn't also matter, I guess, to Alvin Bragg that there was no pattern of anything. There was no pattern of abuse testified to in this case. I have no idea what he's talking about in his statement about some pattern of abuse. I think that Alvin Bragg's office is on a political mission that has nothing to do with the actual evidence presented in this case and actually another case which you highlighted on your show earlier in an exclusive interview. So this would, I think, represent some sort of a

change in policy in the Manhattan DA's office that we did not see under Cyrus Vance or Robert Morgenthau. And that change in policy appears to be disconnected with actual evidence that is presented in court. Atlanta attorney John Cole Neal joins us right now as well. She's worked as a prosecutor, also defense attorney. Glad to have you here. As you look at this, explain this, if you will, this split verdict that comes from this jury. And but first, I'll start with, have you seen where, again, a misdemeanor charges would go to an 11-day trial? Is that unusual? Yes, I would say, and good evening, everyone. Thanks for having me. I would say that, yes, that is unusual for a misdemeanor trial to last that long. And frankly, it's unusual for this

kind of case to proceed to trial, right? Because normally in a case like this, you would potentially have some reduced pleas. I mean, some pleas to a reduced charge or reduced sentencing involved. And so a case of this nature you would normally not see. However, it appears that Mr. Majors wanted to clear his name, and it appears that he thought that, and his attorney thought that this would give him the opportunity, but the jury came to a different conclusion. But what I will say as it relates to your initial question about this split jury. Essentially, the first charge, right, the third degree assault with intent to cause physical harm in a lot of criminal cases for specific charges is what we

call is mens rea, right? And so that means that the person has to have the intent required to commit the crime. And so they found him not guilty of not having the intent to have caused her physical harm. They found him at a lower level, which is a reckless, a third degree reckless charge where essentially his behavior was a conscious disregard and substantial and unjustifiable risk of physical harm to her. And that's essentially what they found. So they didn't find him as low as negligence. They didn't find him as high as he intentionally harmed her, but they found in the middle for a reckless. When you look at that video, the video of him placing her in the car, but she fighting to get back out, follows him.

He pulls himself away and then he's running away from her. You know, what do you make of that if you're talking to a jury? Because the defense says, here's somebody who was trying to get away from her. Later, he's the one who calls 911 when he discovers her in the apartment in the middle of the floor. This is a very, very challenging case. It's a challenging case for the state. Domestic violence cases are very, very challenging to bring. And they're very, very challenging to defend.

That evidence of what we saw in the video of him running away from her shows that, I mean, that essentially really hurts the state's case, right? I mean, they could have acquitted him completely off of that video alone, right? I mean, because we see him de-escalating, right? We see him actually running away from her, trying to get away from her. And so we see her become the aggressor, although she alleges that he initially was the aggressor. And so I think that the evidence can go either way, right? Because as it relates to what the district attorney put in his statement, is that there's this cycle of abuse, right?

And these interrelationships, these interpartner domestic violence cases generally happen in closed doors. You generally don't have this kind of evidence. But it looks like evidence of an innocent man running. happen in closed doors. You generally don't have this kind of evidence. But it looks like evidence of an innocent man running. I mean, that's what the video looks like. So, you know, and it looks like she's the aggressor. And, you know, and it gives the and it gives the appearance that we're looking more at like a Johnny Depp type of case, right, versus a pattern or cycle of abuse at the hands of Mr. Majors. What about the, which, which again, which, which could explain split verdict where they felt that he was culpable in some way and other ways wasn't guilty. What still is weird to me is that the-

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer

Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast

season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers. But we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else. But never forget yourself.

Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. NYPD felt there was enough there to charge her, but the prosecution was hell-bent and said, absolutely not. We're not going to prosecute her. And then she's their star witness you're absolutely right and frankly the the big question is right is is this case brought forward in the nature of of what it is

because of who jonathan jonathan majors is right it's because of his celebrity because of his status i mean that has a lot to do with it because if you're talking about this kind of case with these kind of facts, generally speaking, a prosecution office might just dismiss and not move forward on either case. Right. Because the evidence conflicts to such a high level. So does it does it have a lot to do with who Jonathan Majors is? Yes, it does. So, I mean, that's just the fact of the matter of it um and so they had the choice to not pursue either of them due to the conflict of this evidence however they decided not to move forward against her and to move forward against it uh this obviously uh has

already resulted uh in which what we anticipated uh losses for Jonathan Majors. Shortly after this became public, Lauren Disney, Marvel Studios dropped him from one of their franchises. Did his attorneys say if they're going to appeal? You know, they haven't. In their statement, there was something, a line in there about how he plans to clear his name, which sort of sounded like to me that they would try to appeal or take some action. And it wouldn't surprise me if they did, because there were several things about the way the case was presented that I think are appealable. The judge would not allow a police detective who had processed Jabari's arrest to speak very much.

All of his testimony was effectively objected to. The judge would not allow the jury to hear the body cam audio, so you could see the video but not the audio. Nobody could figure out why that was the case. And I think the jury was frankly unaware of some things that, you know, they should have been aware of and probably will be made aware of when they see, you know, on TV tonight. But during the trial, as presented, was not aware of. So I do think that there is likely to be an appeal.

And that, again, that that really what stands out to me there, John, just the fact that I mean, you look at even the judge here. I mean, you have cops who say we believe this woman assaulted him. D.A. goes, we're not going to prosecute. And the judge doesn't even allow that to come into play. Right. And as it relates, you know, the trial isn't televised. So as it relates to the specific reasons why or what evidentiary reasons why the judge didn't allow that the specific audio to play is unclear at this juncture, it could be a multitude of different reasons as to why that audio was not allowed to be played. I would want to know more intricately about what were the arguments on both sides for why. Certainly in cases and trials that I prosecuted, there have been instances where the body cam footage had to be muted and could not be played.

So it'd be interesting to know what those specific issues were. And I'm not sure, I know that you were, were you in the courtroom when they were disputing that issue about the body cam footage? Yes. And its admissibility? Okay. Yes. And, you know, the jury, I mean, I think the judge, the days that I was in there, which was three days,

I got the sense that anything that would shed a negative light on Mr. Jabari was blocked the entire time, I mean, effectively. But there was some, you know, this case, even though it wasn't televised, which I think it should have been, quite frankly, there was a lot there, you know, evidence in terms of cameras, text messages, that you could figure out where these two people were almost every minute the night that this happened. And that should have been enough. And apparently it was not. And this video of John Majors running through Manhattan away from Grace Jabari is theater of the absurd. I mean, I think we all realize that if this was flipped around and Mr.

Majors was running after Mr. Bari, we would have a completely different view of this. He would be seen as the aggressor. But somehow this office, Alvin Bragg's office, thought that somehow or another, this complete de-escalation didn't matter. And I guess these jurors thought that it didn't matter. But it is, to me, absurd to look at this and think that he somehow was the aggressor. And then he decides that same night to spend the night in a hotel up on the upper east side of Manhattan on 77th Street, which was way away from where she was. That was another point of de-escalation. So, as I say, when you look at the evidence of this case, this is a very, uh, very surprising result

to say the least. Uh, Jaco, final comment. Well, what I will say is, you know, this specific case is a very difficult one because you have the different issues that are going on in this case, right? You have the cycle of violence that happens in interpersonal relationships, the things that happen behind closed doors that none of us are able to see. But however, this case makes it different because we've got all this evidence that shows him running away and him de-escalating this situation. And it makes it very troubling that the jury came to this conclusion. However, that is one of the risks of taking cases to trial. I mean, you have your constitutional right to a trial, but it's very risky to do so. And so it's a verdict where the jury has taken their time to deliberate on the evidence.

And it definitely is interesting in the least to say that a case like this would have made it to a trial with both of them having been charged. All right, then. All right, Ms. Newton-Niller, appreciate it. Lauren, thanks a bunch as well. Thank you. Thank you. All right, folks, going to a break. We come back. We'll chat with my panel about this story, its implications. That is next right here on Roland Barth Unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. Back in a moment.

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Grow with Google and J.Hood and Associates. Be job ready and qualify for in-demand jobs. Next on The Black Table with me, Greg Carr. We featured the brand new work of Professor Angie Porter, which simply put is a revolutionary reframing of the African experience in this country. It's the one legal article everyone, and I mean everyone, should read. Professor Porter and Dr. Vletia Watkins, our legal roundtable team, join us to explore the paper that I guarantee

is going to prompt a major aha moment in our culture. You crystallize it by saying, who are we to other people? Who are African people to others? Governance is our thing. Who are we to each other? The structures we create for ourselves, how we order the universe as African people.

That's next on The Black Table, here on The Black Star Network. Parkour, executive producer, here on the Black Star Network. All right, folks, introducing my panel for this Monday. Dr. Amakango Dabinga, Senior, Professorial Lecturer, School of International Service, American University. Dr. Julianne Malveaux, Economist, President and Mayor of Bennett College, also an author, based out of D.C. Lamont King, Content Creator out of Prince George's County, Maryland. Glad to have all three of you here.

Julianne, I want to start with you. What do you make of this split decision? One attorney said, hey, considering who he is, he should consider this a win. But the reality is that guilty verdict, even on those two charges, is going to cost him a whole lot of money and credibility in Hollywood. You know, it's hardly a win, Roland. And when you see that video of him running away from that woman, it seems to me that, as Lauren said, the jury wanted to give him something. She mentioned the white man with the comb over. You could almost see him with a MAGA hat on his head. But basically determined that this black man would not,

and I think race has a lot to do with it. I don't understand Alvin Bragg at all. What I do understand is this particular case causes me to switch the kaleidoscope just a little bit. Often I've said, believe the woman, although not the white woman, just based on the history of lynching, et cetera. But, you know, I do believe that women deserve a benefit of a doubt because a barrier to bringing a lawsuit is very high for women. At the same time, there was no barrier here. This woman just said he did it, and they took him to court.

It's absurd, and it's going to cost him an awful lot. And one wonders if his credibility can ever be restored. I do hope that his lawyers do choose to appeal. It seems that there are substantive grounds for appeal based on what both Lauren and the other attorney said. But this really makes me sick to my stomach about the casual nature with which some women can make false charges and basically ruin somebody's life. I must say, I'm a Congo. Look, people were asking the question, what was Disney going to do when it came to him playing one of the Marvel characters. Go to my iPad. It did not take long after the decision came down for Disney Marvel to drop him from playing

his role in one of their franchises. He was playing Kang the Conqueror. And, of course, his star was on the rise. Huge critical acclaim. Him playing in Creed III opposite Michael B. Jordan. The two of them went on a significant publicity tour for the movie, but also an Oscar campaign. They presented together at the Oscars as well.

And so he stands to lose a whole lot as a result of this guilty verdict. You know, I just finished watching the Loki series where he was, you know, in as king. I watched Ant-Man when he was in there as well. And I've been watching the star, you know, rise for years. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers,

but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-up way, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.

Disney had to do this, unfortunately. In this day and age that we live in, when there's a guilty verdict, it's a wrap. And many people are bringing up stories like Jeremy Renner, who played Hawkeye in the Marvel franchise, who had a lot of other allegations against him by his wife, including things of sexual abuse towards their daughter, allegations and the like. People brought up Josh Brolin, who also is in the Marvel series, and attacked Diane Lane. But the difference was, there were no trials and no convictions. Once you have somebody who's going to be convicted of something, particularly as relates to any type of domestic violence,

it's going to be a wrap. Now, having said that, I believe that he definitely got a raw deal. I wish that Disney would have waited a little bit longer to see what happens with the appeals process. And looking at this office, it's amazing, Roland. I mean, just being on this show, listening to you talk about, you know, Kevin Porter, Adam Foss, and then let's go on and on and see what this DA has done to prominent Black men. And it really makes you wonder what they're doing to Black men who are not as prominent, to be quite honest. And again, no one here is sitting here saying we shouldn't take domestic violence serious. Everybody knows all of our records here in terms of how we speak out in support of women and all of that. But we have to be honest when we see things that just

don't make sense. Evidence that wasn't allowed to be in, you know, body camera footage, all those things that you talked about. Lauren talked about being in the courtroom several times and not even how they were able to introduce evidence in so many different areas. So we have to be mindful of that. And it's really sad. I think Spike Lee has some projects with him. A lot of people have turned their back on him. And it's a lot harder, if not damn near impossible, for brothers to be able to reclaim their career after something like this in Hollywood. So I'm really concerned about what's going to happen with his future. And I hope that at least through the appeal, all of the evidence gets to come out

and we can see it and make a fully throated, you know, more knowledgeable opinion because this is just not cool. Lamont, your thoughts? I just, I just feel like, you know, we've seen this before and, and it kind of, you know, as the casual observer, as a complete outsider, you know, it makes me question what kind of defense did you have? Like, what kind of defense did you have where something that we've seen time and time again, you weren't able to put up the necessary fight? I'm talking we're watching video evidence. We're watching human interaction play out right in front of us. You know, there are things that they drew attention to that, of course, he did wrong and what he did. But then we're supposed to all forget about the things that she didn't do. And I always find that fascinating. You know, it was the wrong time.

I mean, domestic violence is such a serious hot button issue now. It's always been wrong. But now all of a sudden the sentiment in society is, you know, you're out of here the moment you get accused, the moment you get charged or convicted. So I feel like he was standing to lose either way. I just think it's unfortunate that we see it play out the same way over and over again. And that's even removing black guy, white woman in America. That's even removing that. But you've got video evidence. You've got all these things that we can watch and look at and touch, these tangible things,

and still we get the same outcome. And it just speaks to a greater issue in my opinion and as far as him in hollywood i i think it's a done deal unfortunately he he i don't think he was a big enough star to beat it he was on the rise he was in the moment but right now i don't think the way things are lined up against him he he you you know, it's Nate Parker. Everything from here on out is fan-supported. It's independently produced. I think once Hollywood turns their back on you,

unless you go on the super apology tour of contrition, it's a wrap for him career-wise, unfortunately. Julian, Attorney Monique Presley posted this on Twitter. One count with no criminal intent, and one that isn't a crime but a violation. But for who this man is, no prosecutor's office would have pressed forward on these counts. Job well done by defense counsel and a jury

that obviously was not persuaded by the DA's case or complaining witness. The reality is, if you're the attorney, your job is to keep your client out of jail. If you look at this split verdict, it is one where surely they wanted to be, they wanted to acquit on all charges, but clearly having a split verdict is a win as well. But when you're talking about being an actor, major roles in play, millions of dollars on the line, so he needed a complete acquittal on all four charges for this to change,

and he clearly did not get that. He wasn't going to get that. I don't know. I can't say because I'm not a lawyer. But it seems to me that given, although the preponderance of the evidence seems to have been with him, the judge blocks certain evidence. And if I were a lawyer, which I'm not, I might have advised him to try to do some kind of a plea deal or something so that he would not. I mean, this has been major headlines. His career is, I won't say ruined. There is the independent route, as my fellow panelists have said.

But this is going to be very challenging. The victory, of course, is that it was a mixed verdict. As Monique pointed out, that mixed verdict is one that spares him any jail time. So I don't I don't think even if he had pleaded, I think if he had pleaded, he still gets fired. I think the only way he doesn't get fired from these projects

if he is found not guilty on all counts, which is why I think his team went to court. You know, somebody has to do a full investigation of this woman. I don't know what their relationship was. Obviously, it wasn't the best. But it seems to me that she had a purpose, and her purpose was to bring this man down.

And somebody, some talented private investigator, needs to find out what's going on. Not only what's going on, did somebody slip her a few dollars to do this specious thing? Because it's specious and it is vicious and it's evil. And it's bad enough when women are actually abused and we're not believed when people try to go to court. But when somebody pulls, you know, basically a rabbit out of the hat, it makes it difficult for the next set of women who have problems. So, you know, she really needs to be, if anything happens to him,

something needs to happen to her too. If his career is ruined, hers ought to be too. If she's in a movie, we got to boycott it. She's not an actress. She's not an actress. She works actually behind the scenes in movies and so, and they

were together for some time, but that's sort of where that stands. He faces a little under a year in jail. Sentencing will take place on February 6th. And so we'll see exactly what that sentence is. Got to go to break. We come back. Let's talk about Navy federal credit. They see the report shows how they have been turning down black people left and right they say oh no cnn got it wrong attorney ben crump has already filed a lawsuit on behalf of two african americans who say that they will also turn down we'll discuss this next right here on roller martin unfiltered on the black star network youtube folks hit the like button if you're

watching uh we should easily be over 1,000 likes. Also, folks, we want you to join the Bring the Funk fan club. So you're checking money over at appealbox57196, Washington, D.C., 20037-0196. Cash app, dollar sign, RM unfiltered. PayPal, R. Martin unfiltered. Venmo is RM unfiltered. Zale, Roland at RolandSMartin.com.

Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Weiltered, Zale, Roland at Roland S. Martin dot com, Roland at Roland Martin Unfiltered dot com. We'll be right back. Hatred on the streets, a horrific scene, a white nationalist rally that descended. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1. It's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush.

What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content,

subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling, the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.

To deadly violence. On that soil, you will not be free. White people are losing their damn lives. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storming the U.S. Capitol. We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result

of violent denial. This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the rise of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this.

Here's all the Proud Boys, guys. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white fear. Субтитры подогнал «Симон» I'm Faraji Muhammad, live from L.A. And this is The Culture. The Culture is a two-way conversation. You and me, we talk about the stories, politics, the good, the bad, and the downright ugly.

So join our community every day at 3 p.m. Eastern and let your voice be heard. Hey, we're all in this together. So let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into. It's the culture. Weekdays at 3, only on the Black Star Network. I am Tommy Davidson. I play Oscar on Proud Family, Louder and Prouder.

Right now, I'm rolling with Roland Martin. Unfiltered, uncut, unplugged, and undamned believable. You hear me? According to CNN, the report of the nation's largest credit union has the most significant loan approval gap between black and white applicants among the top 50 lenders nationwide. Right. So the report, folks, calls into question the loan practices of the Navy Federal Credit Union.

They approved more than 75% of the white borrowers who applied for a new conventional home purchase mortgage in 2022. The findings reveal that the bank, which lends to military service members and veterans and their families, significantly denied African-American mortgage applicants more than white applicants. Now, already, there's been a huge fallout. First of all, the Navy Federal Credit Union

has come out and said that the CNN report is flat-out wrong. They left some important information out. Attorney Ben Crump, his law firm, they announced this afternoon that they are going to be suing Navy Credit Union on behalf of two African Americans.

And you can expect, of course, there to be more as well. This here is the press release. Right here, go to my iPad, please. Of course, Ben Crump, Adam Levitt filed a lawsuit on behalf of black plaintiffs Laquita Oliver and Sherelle Jacob, who sought home loans with defendant Navy Federal Credit Union. The lawsuit alleges that Oliver and Jacob's denials for their home loans are due to Navy Federal's discriminatory lending practices.

It says that Navy Federal has approximately 13 million members and more than one hundred and sixty five billion dollars in assets, making it the country's largest and most dominant credit union. Joining us right now is Deborah Owens, the host of Get Wealthy on Black Star Network. Also, Kenneth Kelly, the CEO of First Independence Bank. OK, so first, Kenneth, I want to start with you. So when we're talking about this process in terms of how determinations are made by banks or credit unions

to lend their variety of factors, and I've had people email me. I had a woman hit me today on Instagram saying her son was denied a car loan from Navy Federal Credit, and he had a 730 credit score. I had an individual who is a venture capitalist who hit me and said that he was denied his credit score more than over 750, no significant debt, plus loan payment would have been less than the $1,300 lease payment. He was denied last year by Navy federal credit. Your thoughts? Well, Roland, great to be with you again. It's been a while. I will tell you that, you know, sometimes we depend on systems to do the work for us.

And when we do that, it misses opportunities. And so let me say not on behalf or defense of the credit union, but the HMDA data sometimes doesn't tell the whole story. So what you're doing is helping us to investigate this story, which I think is extremely important. But let me give you just some examples, and they probably parlay into what you were just mentioning to us, which is that if someone starts an application and for some reason they don't complete the application, those numbers get counted. And so they fall into that total percentage. And it could be, show me that last W-2 that you said from the job before the one you have, and if you don't fill it out, then your loan may not end up being approved. And so my point, Roland, is that let's look at the data, let's be sure we completely understand the data, but most importantly,

what is important here is we've got differences that are very, very compelling, that some people are treated very differently. We now need to pull back the covers to investigate and understand. And so I would tell you from my perspective, I think it's important that Congress call a hearing on this topic. You know, Maxine Waters, Representative Waters, has been a strong proponent for community banks, specifically African-American-owned and controlled banks like ours. And so the last thing I'm going to say before I turn it back over to you is that you know this, brother, that we're one of roughly 20 banks in the country out of 4,600 banks. This is another demonstration why you heard someone like Dr. Malvo just a moment ago say she used the word boycott. We need to use the word of reinvigorate and look within our own community.

So our community banks are important to us. My point being, everyone listening under the sound of my voice and yours, Roland, should get to know white applicants were approved. Um, Deborah 56% from African-Americans, 48%, uh, for Latinos. And again, uh, the, the, the crump lawsuit, of course, looking at the CNN story says it's the largest disparity out of all. I mean, it's huge. I feel like here we go again, right? We're back in, what was it, 2008, and another very large bank was, when we really looked at the numbers around the mortgage implosion, you saw a lot of kind of these same disparities. I will say this. It's what people need to understand. And in fact, I did a educational series on getting a mortgage for another organization. What you have to be really clear on when you're dealing with this banks to our other guest point is that you need to have a relationship with the banks. To our other guest's point, is that you need to have a relationship with a banker.

But I think more importantly, as we go into the whole AI landscape, even more so than before, what we have to understand is how algorithms play a role in how credit and lending is approved. And for many people, what you have to understand when you're filling out those applications is to make sure that everything is up to date. And I would say don't put all your eggs in one basket as well. You need, as educated consumers, you need to make sure that you're getting competitive bids from a number of different banks. I think, though,

that there is this, what do I want to say, concern for many people in our community about getting our credit pulled and that impacting our credit score. But we must become, what do I want to say, more discriminating consumers. And to the CEO's point is it's not about just boycotting. It is about reinvigorating the banking institutions in our own community so that we are given a fair shake. Well, let's be let's just be clear here. I mean, the reality, Kenneth, is that not everyone is going to going to have access to a black bank or to a black credit union. And so, I mean, you've got people saying, wait a minute. I mean, what's the whole point of busting your butt to have a credit score above 700? The highest is 850. And then if you look up and then you actually get denied.

In addition, the study said that Navy Federal approved a higher percentage of white applicants who are making less than $62,000 a year than it did black folks who were making $140,000 a year. So here you had black folks making twice as much money than white applicants and still getting denied. It's the same story, Brother Martin. You know this. Even on the educated side, those who have more education, who look like me and you, sometimes still make less money than those who have less education,

whether you're talking about a bachelor's, a master's, and or just a plain old diploma. That's just the history of who we are. Unfortunately, I think the only way we drive change is to talk about it and to help understand what is the principle and the premise behind these causes. We know what it is, but the only way we're going to address it is to continue to talk about it. I've got to go back to, I still call her Chair Waters.

She made note in her letter today exactly what you just stated. It's appalling to see that the numbers where you're talking about 140,000, 150,000 being compared to a number sub 100,000 and the approval rate is that that disparity. We've got to fix that. And the only way we do that is talking more about it and having people to be held accountable for this. Now, what is unique? Credit unions don't have the same oversight for community reinvestment like banks do. As you may have seen two weeks ago, all of the major CEOs of banks were on the Hill having a discussion with the Senate, holding them accountable. Credit unions don't have that same level of accountability. We need to fix that because if... I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at

Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player,

Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me.

Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. If we don't, we know what happens. African-Americans are going to get treated differently. And so I, again, let me applaud you, Brother Martin,

for doing this and having this so timely. Again, I don't know enough, and I'm not in the legalese where Attorney Crump is working on this issue, but I think there is some just cause for at least raising that issue for nothing else than discovery. Deborah, folks are watching, and they're like, well, damn, if I'm making twice as much money, I got a credit score that's more than 700. What in the hell? If only 56 percent of black applicants getting approved, 77 percent of white applicants. What the hell am I supposed to do? And in fact, also, when you talk about credit unions, I remember when I worked for the Fort Worth Telegram, we had an employee credit union.

And when I got my vehicle, I prefer going that route because I went to the credit union, got approved. They told me exactly how much car I can get. So, hell, when I went, I didn't go through all the haggling and all that nonsense with the dealership. I'd already been approved. And so folks are saying, well, damn, if I can't even do that, I mean, I'm absolutely screwed. Well, I would say, though, you know, here's another misnomer as well. We look at those credit scores. But when you're applying for a mortgage, the banks are not using necessarily just that FICO score. They have another whole scoring system. And what it takes into account

is not just income, particularly if you are applying with a with a spouse. Right. What many people don't know is that typically what they're going to do is they won't take the spouse with the highest credit score. They're going to take the they're going to base that based on the lowest credit score. Certainly some of that has to do with who's earning more. But I think what's most important, Roland, is that we understand the rules of the game and we dot our I's and cross our T's. I would say again, my major concern is with the, and I think in one of the reports that came up, are the algorithms are driving so much of the decisions that are being made. And so just like we had redlining when things were more, what do I want earlier statement, is about making sure that when you're applying for that loan that you're giving the exact information that the banks are waiting on.

Making sure that typically when you get closer to that loan, they're going to want an updated pay stub to make sure that nothing has changed. During the underwriting process, a lot of things can change. You want to make sure you don't take out any other credit. I mean, a number of things. Now, I'm not saying that that is the reason for the disparity at all. I mean, you can just see the numbers are staggering if we look at the compare them to what how Hispanics were approved and how whites were approved. But I do want to raise the alarm and I hope that our legislatures are also taking a look at how these organizations are using AI and algorithms to determine whether or not people are approved? Well, I'll be honest with you, Kenneth.

I think credit scores are bullshit anyway. I do. I think it's idiotic when people tell you, oh, it's not a good idea to pay your stuff off because they want to see you with a credit history. Well, hell, if I got the money, I'm paying this shit off. I'm not running around here sitting here walking around with no damn debt. It drives me.

Yeah, but again. I mean, I did a whole, when I watched the white show, we did a whole, I think we did like two hours on how BS this is. And we had Congresswoman Maxine Waters on then where the credit companies wouldn't even tell folks how they even come up with these numbers. How they even create, sort of how they even create whatever their algorithm is and what do they actually use with it. And again, so for me, first of all, I'm paying every damn thing off. I ain't trying to have no debt. I ain't trying to owe nobody. And so

if that means that, oh my goodness, I'm going to have a 650, well, they can all go to hell. So I mean, I just, I mean, I think, because it's just, it's like, what I'm not about to do is sit here going, okay, so we're going to pay like this window right here.

We ain't doing all that. Man, just pay that. Let's move the hell out of here. I can't. Let me just say, Roland, I have to interject because we have to understand. Hold on, Debra. Hold on, Debra. Hold on, Debra.

Hold on, Debra. Because I threw the question to Ken. Ken, go ahead. I'm going Debra. Yeah, Fred. Let me jump in here, Fred. This is one that, as Dr. Dale just said, we got to understand the rules of the game. And I will tell you from experience, you're exactly right. If you're paying off your credit

cards completely monthly, et cetera, you can find yourself with a lower credit score than if you had some debt on your books. I'm telling you that personally. And I will tell you, I have seen individuals back to your failing issue who have a tremendous amount of money in the bank, but they have this little small little light bill or a water bill that was late for some period of time that factors into them not getting what they desire. So my point is, Dr. Del, just what she said is true. We got to understand those rules of the game and talk about them openly so that we're all in a better position. Let me go and shift gears for just a second. Our good, dear friend, John Hope Bryant, you know, he's built a business around this all over the country. Operation Hope. We actually have him in our bank now.

We've had over a thousand folks this year to come through who have actually improved their credit scores and improved their savings. So I will tell you, part of this is education. And while it's easy to say, you know what, to hell with it, we're just going to do what we're going to do, we are not in the capitalistic society if we're not playing by those rules. So that may prevent someone from being positioned to start and open the business the way they want to, with the right level of credit, with the right level of backing, et cetera. So again, I'm not saying it's right. Let me be clear about that, Fred. But those rules are there. And unfortunately,

let me go to my last comment here. Culture shapes policy. Policy shapes economics. So if we want to help change those rules, this is the cultural setting we need to be in, Roland, talking about this issue to help drive changes in policy that don't disproportionately impact people who look like us so that we can have brighter economic outcomes. So I'll leave it at that. But, you know, those are the rules of the game. And so if we shape and use our culture, we can shape and change policies and shape and change economic outcomes. All right, Debra, go ahead. Absolutely. Here's all I want to say, Roland, is that financial ignorance is expensive. And so we have to learn how. No, it's not fair. And I know that the playing field isn't level,

but what I do want our viewers to understand is there are ways to play the game and win. And playing the game and winning means understanding how those out, the FICO scoring, how it's derived, and then making sure that you align yourself so that you get the best financing rates. That's what we're talking about is the cost of borrowing can be much more expensive if we're not able to negotiate and get the kinds of favorable terms, when you go into a 15-year mortgage or 30-year mortgage, it can be significant. And we're already seeing with interest rates going up, people being impacted and the affordability being an issue. And so when you start to throw the difference between a 650 score or 750 score, it can make a great deal of difference.

But the last point I want to make is that, yes, you may not be approved by one, but you want to make sure that you don't have all your eggs in one basket and you want to be able to negotiate. I got you. Well, that's why I bought my last car. Well, hell, my last two, I paid for that damn thing. I'm like, I don't give a damn about no interest. I ain't trying to pay nobody back. I don't

want to owe nobody. I'm driving that sucker off the lot paid for. So, and look, I know some of my people, we love flexing, but listen, I bought my Lincoln Navigator in November 2008. That son of a bitch still rides. I'm good.

I'm good. I ain't trying to sit here and buy nothing. I'm going to ride it. I'm going to drive it until the wheels fall off. Then I'm going to go buy something, and I'm not going to sit here and negotiate. I'm going to give him the cash and keep it moving. So get a bike or something. I don't care.

All right, y'all. I appreciate it. Navy Credit did. All right, y'all. I appreciate it. Navy Credit did release this statement, y'all. Navy Federal Credit Union was recently included in a news story about lending practices in the mortgage industry. We care deeply about the issue and want you to know the report does not accurately reflect our lending practices and is rooted in an incomplete analysis of lending data, does not account for a major criteria required by any financial institution to approve a mortgage loan.

We proudly provide a higher percentage of mortgage loans to black applicants than the vast majority of the top 50 mortgage originators nationwide. Okay, prove it. Our members put their faith in us to do right by them financially, and we stand by the promise that we are abiding by all fair lending practices.

Okay, Navy credit, Navy federal credit. Man up, woman up, show it. Show us. Don't just issue those statements saying, oh, it's incomplete data. Show us. And then why y'all at it? I want to know how y'all spending y'all money. Because I see a lot of y'all ads.

Do y'all do business with black people? Do I see black-owned media? Do I see y'all doing? Because I see a lot of y'all ass. Do y'all do business with black people? Do I see black on media? Do I see y'all doing other business with black companies? I'm just curious, Navy Federal Credit, because see, now y'all got that light on y'all, and there's Ida B. Wells Barnett says, oh, when you hit the light on

darkness, the truth shall come out. That's a paraphrase, but now we'll see what they're going to do. And trust me, when you get hit with a lawsuit, last thing they want are depositions. All right, folks, thanks a bunch. I appreciate it. When we come back, Lord, we know one person who

needed some money, Clarence Thomas. How did these rich white Republicans pay off a Supreme Court justice who was complaining that he was broke? I'll discuss that next on Rolling Martin Unfiltered on the Blackstar Network. I'm Dee Barnes, and on the next Frequency, Professor Janelle Hobson joins us to talk about hip hop

and its intersection with feminism and racial equality, plus her enlightening work with Ms. Magazine and how the great Harriet Tubman connects with women in hip hop. So it was not hard for me to go from Harriet Tubman to hip hop, honestly, because it is a legacy of black women's resistance and black women supporting our communities.

That's what Harriet Tubman did. That's on the frequency on the Black Star Network. On the next Get Wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach. Did you know that 43% of Americans say that they're going to go deeper into debt because the cost of everything is rising because of inflation? On our next Get Wealthy, you're going to hear from money coach Lynette Kelfany-Kotz as she shares exactly what we need to do to stay out of debt and get wealthy. When I paid off my $100,000 in credit card debt, I was just doing strategies kind of piecemeal. I was doing like what I thought would work.

And then it was like, oh, great, it did. It was work. And then it was like, oh great, it did. It was effective. And then I was like, I should document this. I should explain like how I got out of debt. That's right here on Black Star Network with me, Deborah Ola, America's Voter. On the next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, how big a role does fear play in your life?

Your relationship to it and how to deal with it can be the difference between living a healthy life, a balanced life, or a miserable one. Whenever the power of fear comes along, you need to put yourself in that holding pattern and breathe, examine. Find out if there's something that your survival instinct requires you to either fight or take flight. Facing your fears and making them work for you instead of against you.

That's all next on A Balanced Life on Blackstar Network. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed.

I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed.

I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to go to bed. This is Essence Atkins. Mr. Love King of R.B. Raheem Duvall.

Me, Sherri Shebret, and you know what you watch. You're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this

quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working

and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast

season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers.

But we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else. But never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of

Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. Thank you. The Department of Justice is now going to have a way to track the misconduct, y'all, of law enforcement officers. And so what they announced today, the National Law Enforcement Accountability Database. It will only contain the records for federal officers and not be open to the public. It currently includes former and current Justice Department of Officers who have records of serious misconduct over the last seven years. It will be expanded to capture other federal law enforcement agencies such as the Secret Service and United States Parks Police. Federal agencies will be responsible for reporting and updating records for six types of misconduct including criminal convictions, civil judgments,

terminations, suspensions, resigning or retiring while under investigation, and sustained complaints or disciplinary actions for serious misconduct. This is a statement released by President Joe Biden. He said, as part of my administration's executive order on policing, we committed to create a first of its kind database to track records of law enforcement misconduct so that agencies are able to hire the best personnel. Today, I'm fulfilling that promise by launching the National Law Enforcement Accountability Database. This database will ensure that records of serious misconduct by federal law enforcement officers are readily available to agencies considering hiring those officers. We're also working to allow and encourage state, tribal, local, and territorial law

enforcement agencies to make available and access similar records as part of their hiring processes. In May 2022, I signed this executive order to help rebuild trust and deliver the most significant police reform in decades. Since then, we've taken critical steps towards effective, accountable policing, including by requiring that federal law enforcement agencies ban chokeholds, strengthening use of force policies, restricting no-knock warrants, and directing other measures to advance effective, accountable

policing that increases public safety. Protecting public safety depends on trust between law enforcement and the communities they serve. By building trust, we can strengthen public safety, and we can more effectively fight crime in our communities. The executive order is a measure of what we can do together

to heal the very soul of this nation, to address the profound fear and trauma that particularly black Americans have experienced for generations and a channel that private pain and public outrage into progress on behalf of all communities. Now, okay, Julian, and it is action. So the people who then say, nothing's been done. Now it's a database.

Half executive order. Ban no-knock warrants. Ban chokeholds. But the reality is, the federal law only applies to federal. And so I think a lot of people who say, who want to demand police reform, need

to understand, police reform actually has to happen on a city, county, state level and not think that it all is solved by Congress. Well, absolutely. I think the federal, the new database is a step in the right direction. Some of this could have been addressed had we been able to get the George Floyd Accountability and Policeman Act before this, but we haven't. It's a step in the right direction. But what we already know, Roland, is that these rogue cops go from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, hiding their records. They sometimes are covered up by their friends who may be the police chief or the somebody, somebody, somebody knows their history, but doesn't look at their whole resume. So we have to, you know, one of

the things you said that's so important is that there are all these people saying nothing has happened. Well, I don't know what their perspective is, but plenty has happened, just not enough. Now, Brother Biden is not to blame for what has not happened, but we have to put the pressure on. And putting the pressure on does not mean whining around, talking about, oh, I'm not going to vote. I mean, them pitiful people could go somewhere. Basically, putting the pressure on means continuing the activism, supporting people like Kristen Clark at the Department of Justice, who is doing amazing work. They just got convictions, not convictions. They're taking some more of the Breonna Taylor killers to court. So basically, we have to, you know, we're never going to be happy until we have the whole loaf,

but we have to celebrate the half loaf, especially when we have people helping us get there. I'll tell you one thing. You think you're going to get more from the orange man or from little Nikki Haley? You're not. So stop complaining. Roll up your sleeves and let's get working. I'm a Congo. Look, I think it is. It is a great start. And I think for people who say that it's not enough, the fact of the matter is what we need to tell people is, hey, remember in November 2024, if you want to start looking and seeing things like this on a local level, citywide level, state level, then you got to put people in office from the top of the ticket to the bottom of the ticket who are going to make something like this happen. So I believe that you said something,

Roland, about them not going to make some of their information public or something to that effect. I feel like they should, because that also shines a bigger light on many of these guys. I also hope that the Border Patrol agents are going to get some attention because of some of the things that we're hearing about what's going on down there. But again, Joe Biden, it's kind of like with the student loans, right? Joe Biden could do more if he had more people and more places to help him get that support. But as long as we have Congress being what it's like and a sentence being what it's like, if people want to see this happen at a deeper level,

like Dr. Malveaux was saying, you know, so we can eventually get that George Floyd pleasy format, then give us more Democrats in office who are going to help us make those changes at every level, because all this is never enough. And I was watching some of your stuff on Instagram over the weekend, Roland, like with Trump's comments and everything. And you kept saying, you know, look, y'all, if you're not going to get out and vote, you don't you don't have a say in these things. Right. You complain, complain, complain, but you're not going to take action. Action needs to be taken. And this is a step in the right direction. And we need to support it and demand more of this at the local level. And it's going to take more leadership, more voting. We can make this happen at a larger level,

at a large, it's federal obviously, so it's larger, but I'm saying we can make it happen in more places at the local level. Yeah, Lamont, I saw some folks over the weekend talking about how Biden, he hasn't gotten this done, but President Lyndon B. Johnson got a lot done. And I'm going, if you go back and actually check the numbers, Democrats had the majority in the House and the Senate when Johnson was president, even though he was dealing with Southern Dixiecrats. He also had a lot of moderate Republicans. If you go back and check the numbers of the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act and the Fair Housing Act, it wasn't close. It wasn't like it was one, two vote majority in the Senate when you need 60 votes to get stuff passed.

And so it's just, I just think it's silly when people post some of this stuff and they don't actually, as Paul Harvey would say, tell the rest of the story. Lamar, Lamar, you made it. I would say to this, getting this passed specifically, yes, it's a step in the right direction because whereas it didn't exist,

now it does. But I think the thing that I'm hung up on the most is the fact that the information is not made available to the public. Because to me now, it just looks like a transfer portal, a recruitment tool where, you know, jurisdictions can see what what different individuals have done. And, you know, they might be of value to our jurisdiction, to our part of the agency now. So I think having it hidden really kind of defeats the purpose. And also...

But remember, you still have... First of all, let me go to the top here because I think what's important to remember, part of the issue, again, so you say... So again, you're still dealing with personnel matters. And so you, so that's the other thing that we have to understand. So you might be in law enforcement, but you still have rights that we also have as well.

So you have to factor in personnel. Just like if any of us are terminated from a company for a reason, if you call, if the next employer calls your job, that employer only can give limited information regarding your employment at that company. So we have to factor in that there still are legal rights that are at play here. That may be all well and good, but if you have a history or a pattern of abuse and you have write-ups and complaints in the dozens and approaching scores of complaints over the years, and that's not available to the public, whereas you enter a new jurisdiction working for the Fed, your Justice Department law enforcement,

and now you're in my area, and I have no idea that this person enforcing the law in my jurisdiction has this kind of history. And so the other side to that is it's almost like, you know, if I'm looking for an agent who gets down like that, and I'm an employer, or we're looking for somebody to come shake things up. We need a runner and gunner. You know what I mean? That's why I made mention of it being like a transfer portal. It's good if it's enforced, and it's good if it impacts in a way that helps citizens. That's all I'm saying about that. And to the voting piece, I see a lot of stuff online as well. And my question to the people that their answer is vote, vote, vote. Are we prepared to,

what systems are we putting in place to deal with when we get outvoted? I never hear that discussion. No, hold on. Well, I mean, we do it all the time on here. I mean, in fact, and you actually, but you actually have it. And so that is, here's the whole deal. I don't care what the election is. I don't care whether the election is on the city level, the school district, the county level, the state or the federal level, you're still a constituent. And so there still are demands that we can make, even though the person who we wanted didn't win. That's politics. It happens every single day. That's why we have organizations. That's why we have people who actually do that. The problem is when people check out of a process or they go, well, my person

didn't win, so therefore I'm not going to be involved. And so on this show, we are constantly trying to explain to people that the election is the end of one process and it's the beginning of another, even if your person wins. Because even, see, this is the other thing that, this is where for me, civics 101 comes in. Alright, people go, well,

Biden said he was going to get rid of student loans, student loan debt. Well, he tried he was going to get rid of student loans, student loan debt. Well, he tried to. The Supreme Court said no. He didn't have the authority. So then people go, well, but he said he was going to do it. He said he was going to do it. And it's like, okay, so even if you elect a council person, even if you

elect that one person, if there are nine people on the council, you need five votes. And so I think a lot of times people don't understand that civics, electing one person does not solve all the problems because they still got to get the votes to get it passed. No, I agree 100 percent. I guess what I was leaning more towards is I feel like more needs to be done for people with the wherewithal and who have the bandwidth to help educate people on shaping policy, because I know for somebody who was disassociated with the political process for many years, that shaping, I didn't realize it was the shaping of policy that had us where we were. Like, it took me a while to learn that. I had to engage civically to learn that. And I think a layer of that is I wish there was more education on

telling our brothers and sisters how important it is to know how to shape, how policy gets shaped. I think that gets missed. Well, it gets missed because a lot of people just simply turn off and when it's over, people say, hey, I did my part. Well, no, not

necessarily. And again, we spend a lot of time trying to educate people on how this process works. And just too often, people don't understand, Julian. They don't just understand that when you're talking about public policy, that one person doesn't fix it. Even if you're electing the president,

the president has broad powers, but the reality is people are like, well, why can't the president get this bill done? Well, because if it involves money, the Constitution says it has to start in the House. Well, who controls the House? Republicans. Who controlled it those first two years?

It was Democrats. Who controls the Senate? And then even if you get it through the House, which we saw, the House passed the George Floyd Justice of Policing Act. The House passed the John Lewis and the voting rights bills.

But guess what? You needed 60 votes in the Senate. They only had 50. And so you needed to pick up 10 Democrats. People are like, well, I don't understand why it couldn't get done. Because you needed 60!

Because you don't read. The answer is because you don't read. I mean, the fact is with all due respect to my fellow panelists, there is so much voter education stuff out there. Melanie Campbell, Black Civic Participation, Latasha Brown. I could go down the list of folks who are doing this work. But if you don't want to know, I mean, you can lead a horse to water.

And there is so much information out there, but you can't make them drink. I'm not disrespecting anybody who doesn't know, but I'm saying that information is there. Voting is not the most you can do. It is the absolute least you can do. Yes, vote. Please vote. But after you vote, be engaged in the process. Because, I mean, not only at the level of presidential politics, which excites everybody, but down to dog catcher if you have to, because this has an impact on the quality of your life. I mean, I hate dogs. So I wish I could vote for a dog catcher to come get some of these suckers out of my neighborhood.

Yes, I can't. But just saying. But I mean, basically, any vote you take has an impact. And if you don't vote what you're saying, you don't care that you're allowing your destiny to be determined by somebody else. Are you really that flaccid, placid? Come on now. Let me deal with this here. So Kim Smith made this old stupid comment on the YouTube channel. I see it all the time. He goes, we simply vote blindly for Democrats. I see more stuck on stupid people say that comment, which is the dumbest thing in the world. Black people are absolutely smart when it comes to voting.

Black people, every election makes choices that are about black people okay so this this stupid ass talking point oh we just vote blindly no we know exactly what we're doing when black people are voting on the federal level we're voting for health care we're voting for med expansion. We're voting for help for elderly when it comes to Medicare. We're voting for criminal justice reform. We're voting for voting rights reform. We're voting for, again, education. We're voting for the expansion of opportunity for African-American entrepreneurs. We're voting for support for HBCUs. The fact of the matter is this here.

Black people make a decision by looking at candidate A, candidate B, and then go, which one of these two candidates aligns with me on a multitude of issues? Now, there's some black people out there who are single voters. There's some black people say, I don't care. Abortion is the number one issue for me. There's some black people out there who say taxes, lower taxes, the number one issue for me. But the fact of the matter is black people make choices every single day about the lives of black people. So anybody who says this nonsensical, idiotic stuff about black people, we just blindly vote for Democrats.

No, we're making fundamental choices about our lives and that of our neighbors, our friends, and our family. And so I just think it's important to make that perfectly clear because the next time a fool says that, educate them on exactly how smart black people are when it comes to who we support and why we support them and who we give our vote to. And I'll say this, to any other party or any other candidate,

you could actually make an argument, come to black people and make an argument, but you better be right on the issues to where we stand. Otherwise, we're going to tell you, get the hell on, get gone. I got to go to a break. We'll be back. Roland Martin, Unfiltered, on the Blackstar Network. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

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We're behind $100,000, so we want to hit that. Your money makes this possible. Check some money orders. Go to P.O. box 57196 washington dc 20037-0196 the cash app is dollar sign rm unfiltered paypal is r martin unfiltered venmo is rm unfiltered zill is rolling at rolling s martin.com Martin calm Hey, it's John Murray, the executive producer of the new Sherry Shepard Talk Show. This is your boy, Herb Quay. And you're tuned in to... Roland Martin, unfiltered. All right, folks, so there are a lot of people every single year when you talk about the holidays who go through a whole lot.

They go through that because they have suffered loss. It may be relatives, it may be family members, it may be friends. They simply may not have other people in their lives, and they're actually lonely. And so, of course, Christmas is a week away and you've got New Year's and you also have a number of people who look to take their lives this time of the year as well. My next guest is Dr. Shedrick McCall Jr., a licensed professional counselor and the chair of psychology at Virginia State University. Glad to have you here. So first and foremost, you know, this is something that we don't necessarily think about because a lot of us just, it's festive and we just

getting ready for Christmas and all this sort of stuff and then New Year's and parties without realizing some people actually retreat from life once the holidays rolls around? Most definitely. I think that a lot of people retreat. A lot of times, unconsciously, we don't realize that we have so much on our mind that the holidays, for some people, it elicits a lot of anxiety. And as you indicated earlier, some of us have family members that we've lost. Some people can't afford to buy the gifts that they want to buy. So a lot of this just elicits a lot of anxiety and depression in a lot of individuals.

So what do we, if we have coworkers, if we have family, have friends, what do we do about it? How do we help them? I think mainly just understanding that just talking to people, meeting them where they're at. If you see that something's going on with them, just be a listening ear for them so that they can have somebody to talk to and work through the issues that they may have. A lot of times just being there for people is definitely helpful, especially if it's a family member, if it's children. Anything that you can do just to be there for them will help them get through these trying times, you know, the holiday blues. And so what are the tips? Where do we start, as far as what people are going through, is that we'll see if they are withdrawn or they're isolated, you know, they stand to themselves. Then that's when we need to talk to them to find out what's going on with them.

And if it's something that we can talk to them about, then let's do it. But sometimes they need more than just us. So sometimes they need help to talk to people to get through the things that they are going through. So we start generally just by talking to them and then suggesting that they get help to help them through these holiday blues. Questions for the panel. LaMontre first. How do you deal with people that deal with like seasonal affective disorder centered around specifically the holidays? Yeah, most definitely seasonal affective disorder. We know that in the summer and the spring, people are happy.

And when it comes around to the winter and the fall, you know, there's less light. And we know that the light affects neurotransmitters, which elicit depression. So just help them by getting them out of the house, making sure that it's more light available for them, you know, just talking to them and just being there for them. Julianne. One of the things that I think depresses people is the commercial impact that we place on these holidays. Predatory capitalism is alive and well. If you ordered something online next and you know you're getting ads, buy some more, buy some more, buy some more. How do we balance out the joy of the holiday in the birth of the Christ child with the capitalist extravaganza that has become the holidays.

Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a mouthful there. I think it's tough because I think that a lot of people are into this decapitalism as far as purchasing and just, you know, doing things for people during these holidays. It's a tough balance. And I think that that, you know, goes from person to person regarding that situation. But that's definitely a tough balance for us to do because this time of year is when they're putting all those commercials out there for people to buy things. And, you know, as I indicated earlier, when people can't afford those things and they see it, that is some of the things that lead to depression also.

I'm a conga is there a difference in the way that people react to the type of loss they have so i'm thinking for example there may not be people around us from the holidays because you know they may have passed from old age or sickness but then i'm also thinking about families who lost people at like the Buffalo supermarket when the hate crime, you know, and, you know, 10 people were slaughtered in a situation like that. Is the type of grief in terms of how you respond to it different when the circumstances that led to the loss are more extreme? Or is it pretty much you're doing the same things to handle these situations? I believe, you know, there are stages

of grief by Kubler-Ross that people go through depression, denial, anger, bargaining, and acceptance. And I think that humanistically that if there's a loss, when you talk about someone with old age and they're just not there anymore, I think that we accept that a little bit better. But if you're talking about something that happened, someone's being murdered, someone's been in a car accident, even during COVID, I think that hits just a little different because in your mind, you think that person's supposed to be there and you didn't prepare yourself for that person to go because it was measures that you couldn't control or that person couldn't control so i definitely think that it hit

different all right then well doc we certainly appreciate it uh thank you so very much being with us all right thank you all right thanks a bunch all right folks we come back uh i've got a couple more stories i want to talk to you about uh celebration bowl took place over the weekend and it was family versus howard we'll tell you about that the vice president was there also uh we'll uh talk a little bit about uh clarence thomas man how much it takes me in the peck to buy this brother, these white conservatives have bought them a Supreme Court justice. We'll talk about it next. You're watching Rolling Mountain Unfiltered on the Black Star Network.

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only on the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Paula J. Parker. Trudy Proud on The Proud Family. Louder and Prouder on Disney+. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Oh, my goodness. So ProPublica, they've been all over Clarence Thomas' show. They have a new article out today that shows that Clarence Thomas spoke at a conference in Georgia, and he was flying back and was sitting next to a Georgia congressman, and he was complaining about the amount of money that Supreme Court justices make.

He was making about $176,000 then, which is about $300,000 today. And so shortly after that, all of a sudden, man, they start helping Clarence Thomas out because he had bought this $267,000 RV, and him and his wife had bought a half-million-dollar house in D.C. And next thing you know, she started getting contracts from the Heritage Foundation and had a friend pay his RV loan off. And then he started getting rides on different planes and yachts of rich folks. And next thing we know, another person, he took in his nephew. And then another person started giving him some money for the tuition. Then all of a sudden, he got a book deal. And with a $1.5 million and and just money started rolling in.

And then later he was asked about the issue. He was like, hey, you know what? Now we good. Me and my wife live a simple life. Well, yeah. Oh, my God. Go. It's easy. It's easy to live a simple life when you've got billionaires paying for your life? Every single thing from schools to buying your mama's house to paying for school for the nephew. He talks about he'd rather be out in my Walmart parking lot just relaxing

in my RV, but not talking about the fact that it's $267,000 that you didn't pay for. I mean, look, the man makes $285,000 a year at this point. And if he really wanted money, he should have quit, like he said, and gone into private practice and been balling or just made the money on the speaking fee. I mean, come on.

You took in the kid, you know, your other, you know, son is grown, right? And, you know, no other kids, you know, who are like young dependents or anything like that. How much do you really need? Like, how much do you really need? How much do you really need? The sad part about this, Roland, is that the ethics, quote-unquote, reforms that the Supreme Court put into action earlier this year have no, or last month or so, have no enforcement mechanisms. And what also bothers me with this ProPublica work is that it just reminds me of all of the work that journalists

have not done on Supreme Court justices over the years, because there's no way that Clarence Thomas could be the first. He's probably for sure, particularly in the modern era, the worst. And I'm glad more of these stories are coming out. But if we had some type of credible journalism targeted on the Supreme Court earlier, I guarantee you, Roland, a lot of these other ones would have been exposed because that has to be the reason why they don't have real ethics rules. No, but I don't think it's journalism, Julian. I think the problem is that the Supreme Court, they self-report. We talk about cops investigating cops.

I mean, for long as they were required to post a lot of stuff, that's the problem. How do you have three branches of government and you have reporting requirements and oversight for all three, for two of them, but one of them gets to do what the hell they want to do because we just naturally trust them to do the right thing. I think it's abundantly clear this is a bought and paid for Supreme Court. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, the Clarence Thomas situation is quite amusing, but not really. But amusing from the standpoint that, you know, the whole court has always behaved as if they're above the law. But he in particular has had enormous indifference for the Constitution, for the law, for integrity, for decency.

We know we don't have to repeat the Anita Hill story. And where it's clear now there is evidence that was not allowed in. And it's clear that he just pathetically lied, that there were at least one, perhaps three other women who had complaints about him and sexual harassment. And a football player that he's married to, you know, had the temerity to call Dr. Hill to ask her 10 years after the fact would she apologize. It's crazy. But what's really crazy is that we have allowed the Supreme Court, for what reason? But we've allowed them to just float above it all with no, as you say, reporting requirements, no code of conduct, no—even when members of the president's cabinet, when they get gifts, when they travel abroad, they have a place with the ethics office where they have to say, I got this from Saudi Arabia. Can I keep it?

And sometimes they tell him yes and sometimes they tell him no. Well, Clarence Thomas surely didn't ask anybody about that RV he had as to whether he could keep it or not. We know this man is crooked. But your point, Omicongo, was very well taken. He's not the only one. Lamar, Bob Lines, you got some extra cash. Clarence Thomas will take it. Am I ruling in your favor?

Hey, they're going to the highest bidder, man. Everybody has a price. And not only, Dr. Malvo, enormous indifference, but enormous entitlement. You know, because you learn and you study in school and you sit down and behave and they tell you no one is above the law. And you get older and you see things like this and it does make you wonder, you know, who else and how many else and how much, you know, over the years. And then it begs the question for me, you know, is there a way to tie being bought and paid for to certain opinions over the years that affected certain decisions?

Are those cases up for question, up for discussion now? Because you clearly have received in any other industry, in any other line of work, that's an instant compromise. So, you know, what now? I mean, we saw them put in place the the the ethics committee and whatnot. But like you said, there's no enforcement. So. So what now is everything? What's the word? The integrity is compromised now. So. So. So now what? How is he able to still serve out his 10 easy. It's a life. It's a dark cloud. It is because it's because it's a lifetime appointment.

And again, because they self govern, they literally they literally are not accountable to anybody. And that's the problem. Tomorrow, we're going to have the reporter from ProPublica who wrote this story on tomorrow's show so y'all don't want to miss that. Folks, over the weekend it was Celebration Bowl, the crowning of the HBCU National Champion. It pitted the Howard Bison versus the Florida A&M

Rattlers. Vice President Kamala Harris was in attendance at the game. It was a great game there and you know, guess what? Her Howard Bison came up that Kamala Harris was in attendance at the game. It was a great game there. And, you know, guess what? Her Howard Bison came up short. And so she was there enjoying the game. Second gentleman, Doug Imhoff, was there, a host of friends as well,

in the suite there. And she took some time to drop by the ABC booth to talk with a couple of the announcers, one of them an HU grad, one of them a Florida A&M grad. Check it out. Cheer on my team. Did I say our team when she's around? Our team, yes we can. I don't know about all of that. Okay, so we saw you a couple of years ago at the Truth in Service Classic, and then again you supported the men's basketball team.

Of course. You're here now, and so what do these type of events mean to you personally? Well, I mean, it's a lived experience. I grew up through college, going to our games, and then go back every year for many years to homecoming. And to be able to celebrate the team as an extension of celebrating the school and all HBCUs. I mean, it's very much a part of just a cultural appreciation

and really lifting up just the beauty of the work and the excellence. Let me say, Madam Vice President and fellow Bison. Yes, Bison. Fellow California. Indeed. I like to tell people I went to Howard University a little boy that thought I could hit a couple dreams and left there a man that knew I could achieve anything.

That's right. What was your HBCU experience like at Howard? It was very much the same. I mean, what you and I know is that you could play for the football team and be the head of the science club. Right? I was on the debate team. I pledged a sorority. There were no false choices.

And everything about being at an HBCU tells you you are supported, you are nurtured and there are high expectations of you. Yes. And with every intention of giving you all the support you need to thrive. You sound like my professor, Professor Smallmore and she was like, Jay, if you can throw four touchdowns on Saturday, you're

going to be in science class on Monday. That's right. But that's exactly right and no excuses would be allowed. Yes. Right? Yes. So right. So let me jump in here, Madam Soar, Vice President. You mentioned that member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated pledged the Alpha chapter initiated. So for you, what did the unity and the sisterhood mean to you and how does it carry you forth now? Well, you know, I talk with students all the time about the fact that that sisterhood or, you know, if you join a fraternity, that brotherhood is, it's a lifetime. I initiated with 37 other young women. There were 38 of us. We are very close to this day, these many decades later. And it's an enduring sisterhood. It includes not

only those that you join with, but those you see all around, literally around the world, have seen our soul. I'm going to harken back to your Howard experience and ask a lesson learned that has carried you throughout your journey to become the Vice President of the United States. That much is expected, and that you may be the first to do many things.

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Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and three on may 21st and episodes four five and six on june 4th ad free at lava for good plus on apple podcasts i'm clayton english i'm greg glad and this is season two of the war on drugs podcast we are back in a big way in a very big way real people real perspectives this is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corps vet. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. Don't be the last. So what you receive, you are expected

to give back. And I learned that from my family. I learned that at Howard. And it is something I take very seriously. I'm going to allow you personal privilege here, Jay, because I know you all have a little something that you do when you recognize each other. I'm still in shock right now. That 38, that's a big line, right? I'm sorry. The 38 jewels of iridescent splendor. We have to have you go.

We have to say this. H-U. You know. You know. Thank you so much for being here and joining us. It's good to be with you absolutely enjoy the game you want to say go bison before you go go bison i can't say it so you can't well folks after the game harris went to the historic busy bee cafe with melanie campbell the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation and others. It has been a staple for decades in Atlanta, opening in 1947. And look, you got to be you got to be black, Lamont, to roll up to the Soul Food Joint and get on Air Force Two with some with some bread,

with some bread pudding or some banana pudding as well as some peach cobbler? I mean, yeah, you can. And respectfully, I think that was a good – I watched the game. I watched the halftime. I just – I'm really not unpopular opinion. I'm not big on the photo ops, you know, going to the Soul Food restaurant, showing – cooking black-eyed peas on Instagram and showing collard greens. I'm not a fan of that.

He's the other. She cooks. She actually cooks. So, like I said, unpopular opinion. I feel like every available opportunity, she has to remind the public that she's black by showing us black things. I'm just not a fan of that.

But if she doing black stuff, I mean, shouldn't she do that? I mean, that's like, for instance, it's not for show. It's not performative. I mean, being who you are is not being black shouldn't be performative. Right. So so that was stuff. So Obama, when he was president, went by restaurants, stopped by Leah Chase's, Dookie Chase's in New Orleans, Roscoe's Chicken and Waffle. They even got now an item on the menu. So, I mean, I don't see.

I mean, it's a. What's the difference? Okay, how about this here? What's the difference between her doing that and stopping by a bookstore? Stopping by a bookstore? Yeah, like if she stopped by a bookstore to, let's say, support a small business. Is that okay? Sure, that's very much okay.

I just don't like the way— So now I'm confused. I'm confused. No, you're not confused. No, no, no, I am confused. I don't like the implication of belly. If it's okay for her to stop by a bookstore, why can't she stop by a soul food joint in Atlanta? Hey, she can do what she wants.

I'm just not a fan of the implied tropes that we see. So on Instagram, I'm doing a two-step. This is my favorite soul food song. i'm doing a two-step this is my favorite soulful song i'm i'm washing collard greens today i'm i'm boiling black ips for for new year's eve because that's a black tradition i'm just not a fan of that outward performative display of your blackness i'm just but it's not okay so if she didn't like if if she did Black Eyed Peas every New Year's before she was vice president so she shouldn't show it?

I don't know that of her anyway. So I don't know her to have done that before. No, I'm trying to tell you she actually cooks. So she's been cooking a long time. So if she's been cooking a long time. So if she's been cooking a long time, she's just doing what she's always done.

That's fine. And all that's fine and fair. From my observation, what I don't like is being black on cue. I don't like when they do that to, I didn't like when they did it to former President Barack. I don't like it when they do it to Madam Vice President. But who, now, who's they? You're not confused, Roland. No, who's they?

No, no, you said they. So you don't, you don't like, so you didn't like it. You didn't like when Obama stopped by a black business. No, that's not what I said. Don't try to misconstrued my words, dear brother. That's why I said I'm confused. No, you're not confused. I don't like the positioning of it.

It's like, here's a black moment. We need you to be black. No! Hold on. Stop right there. You said, here's a black moment. We need you to be black. Who's we? Well, that's subjective. No, it's not. No, no, no. You be black. Who's we? Well, that's subjective. No, it's not. No, no, no. You said

we. Who's we? It sounds like there's some other thing above her saying, hey, we need you to stop by. How about if she stopped by because she wanted to stop by? That's, again, that's fair and fine.

But we do know that there's some level of handling that goes into your appearances and your itinerary. That's not, that's not, that's coming off. I can tell you right now. I'll be honest with you. I've been around lots of presidents, vice presidents. If a president or a VP don't want to do something, they don't do it.

Oh, absolutely. So she's not removed from that. I'm saying, my opinion is that I don't like the performative nature of it. But, but, but, but, so I'll ask, so again, I'll bring in Julian and I'm going to go, how is it

performative? Because see, here's what I find to be interesting. So, if she doesn't do it, then, okay, she don't do it, but if she does it, it's performative, but when I asked about her going to a bookstore, you

were like, that's fine. So, I don't understand. So, like, what? If she went to a white bookstore, that's fine, but if she went to a black bookstore, that's performative. I mean, those are layers. Why do we place performative on something when it's just what we can do? Well, I mean, I don't agree with that.

Hillary had hot sauce in her purse. Hold on, hold on, stop, stop. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on, right there. And what you just did right there, that's where you made a big mistake. Hillary Clinton. No, no, no, no.

See, Hillary Clinton, you can go back 15 years where Hillary Clinton talked about hot sauce. Here was the mistake that black people made. Black people, and I'm telling you, this is very well documented. Black people in 2016 were like, oh, here Hillary Clinton go on the breakfast club talking about she got hot sauce.

Literally, there were stories done a decade earlier about Hillary Clinton carrying hot sauce. But we jumped to the conclusion that because she talked about hot sauce, people were like, oh, that's performative. She actually was doing that for a long time before she even ran. Is it not performative? No, that's the answer to the question. If you ask, I don't understand how... Go ahead, Julianne.

First of all, this woman is a human-blocking being. She likes football. She loves Howard. She went to a game. People are commenting about that. Why did she go to the game? Somebody put on Twitter,

or X or whatever the hell they call it, put on there, didn't she have anything better to do than go to a football game? She has a right to have fun. She has a right to eat food that she enjoys. There is nothing performative about being a human being. Brother, I don't know you, but I will tell you this. On this issue, you are butt wrong.

Butt wrong. That's your opinion, but that's your opinion, though. That's fine. That's your opinion, though. That's mine. That's your opinion, though. I didn't detract from her. I didn't detract from her. What did I disrespect her? Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up.

You can't talk over each other. Julianne, finish your point, and then I'm going to go to Lamar, then I'm going to go to Omicongo. The bottom line here is that this woman has been under ridiculous scrutiny. She is the vice president of the United States, and there's some scrutiny that comes with that. But she is also the first black woman, black and Asian woman, in this role, and the critics have been horrid. So for this man to talk about performative suggests that he does not know what he's talking

about, who he's talking about. I know Kamala from San Francisco. She is a sister to us. She's a sister. who he's talking about. I know Kamala from San Francisco. She is a sister. She's a sister. She's a human being. And all the criticism that she gets, black women have sick of these folks just judging her because she went to have a good time

and she stopped to get some food. And this person says it's performative. What are you performing today, bro? What is your performance? Okay, Lamont, you can respond. Then I'm going to Omicongo. Well, I mean, respectfully, you know, you have a relationship can respond. I'm going to Omicongo. Well, I mean, respectfully, you know, you have a relationship with her. I don't. I didn't. None of my commentary did I detract or disrespect her.

So, my opinion may have triggered you, but that's not where it was founded and nor was it rooted in. I stated that what I don't like about those types of appearances and the reason why. It's nothing about her.

I understand the scrutiny that she's gotten. She's not going to, you know, she's going to catch heat no matter what she does. My original opinion of the appearance was I don't like when they do that. That was it. Everything else is there was no detraction. There was no disrespect. She's at the highest level. I'm here for all of that.

So your relationship is your relationship. Mine is not. Mine is just a casual observer, the viewer. I'm a Congo. Go ahead. Nobody says anything when Biden does something to honor his Irish heritage. Nobody says anything when Biden does something to honor his Irish heritage. Nobody says anything if people see Obama or Trump or DeSantis at a football game or basketball game or a sporting event.

So I feel like I'm not talking about this conversation in terms of us here. I'm talking about the general public. You know, there's a certain level of hate that's directed at her. You know, being a black woman, you know, Black and Asian woman that people are just not going to send towards other people. And Rhonda Santos is still out there complaining over where Florida State didn't get placed in the football tournament or something. I love seeing Vice President Kamala Harris be out there and celebrate her Blackness. People talk about, oh, she's married to a Jewish person. That's a problem. Oh, and she was a, you know, a DA. She targeted black men. Like, they come

up with all of these things to make it look like she doesn't love black people. And so when she's out there celebrating Howard, room for Howard, y'all were at the hip-hop party. Now, Roland, I'm saying they're watching y'all at the hip-hop party, right? She could have just sat there, made her speech, said, you know, we're going to honor

50 years, and called it a day. But actually, actually, even with that, here's why. Here's why I thought it was idiotic and stupid when people got mad that they called it performative, had the hip hop celebration. Every president and every vice president has actually hosted musical events. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves.

We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers. But we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else. But never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.

Exactly. Y'all can pull the video up. I was at the White House when Obama celebrated Motown. They had a musical performance in the East Room. I was in the room. Later, they had another celebration of gospel music. Aretha Franklin, Shirley Caesar. You had numerous artists who performed.

David and Tamela Mann. You had, I mean, list goes on. So, Vice President Harris hosts the hip-hop party, and I literally saw people going, that's performative. No! It was literally a celebration of hip-hop in his 50th year.

If I'm correct, Obama had Common perform at the White House. This is all I'm saying here, and this is to me, again, this is to me a problem that where I believe we as African Americans get way too touchy.

So to Omicongo, your point. If Biden stopped by a pub to get a pint of beer, oh, he stopped by a pint. But then she stops by a SoFu restaurant, it's performative. stopped by the pint. But then she stops by a soul food restaurant. It's performative. Here's the deal. She did that when she was attorney general. She did it when she was the DA. So it's like it happens. In fact, I fly to Atlanta all

the time. I stop by. I purposely will structure my schedule to go by Pascal's in the airport to support a black restaurant. I'll post a photo. You can say it's performative by me doing that when I'm supporting a black restaurant. I just think

that we, now, let me go back to the hot sauce thing, because see, this was the mistake. Go to my iPad. Ashton Pittman published this here uh 2016 a host asked hillary clinton what's something she always has in her bag hot sauce she said critics claimed she said this to pander to black voters because of beyonce's hot sauce in my bag lyric he was in a podcast Hillary Clinton did four years earlier where the headline, Hillary Clinton rarely listens to her iPod, always packs Tabasco sauce. Next, the article said right here, 2012, Condi Nast did an article on Hillary Clinton where

she talked about hot sauce. This was four years before Beyonce even did the song. And then 2008, Hillary Clinton had a White House hot sauce collection as first lady where there were stories done on it. In fact, in 2015, this was an article where Hillary Clinton took a photo with a bottle of Tabasco sauce. Now, that wasn't performative when she did it. She actually did it. The mistake was people jumped to the conclusion, oh, here she go on a black radio show talking about hot sauce

when she literally had been talking about hot sauce for 20 years. And I mean, that's cool. If you if you if you wait for me to respond, all of that. It's also important that with everything that's coming at us right now from the curriculum, getting rid of DEI, you know, to be able to be out there and celebrate her Blackness, we need more of that. And so the story that you're bringing up with the hot sauce, that is true for VP Harris as well. She has always been Black.

She has always celebrated, not as a performance, but because it's who she is. But in this day and age now, more than ever, the way they're coming at us, I hope she continues to do more of it, go out there and celebrate every aspect of us in every way, shape, or form, because they're trying to deny us it in every way, shape, or form.

Lamont, go ahead. The word... Hold up, Julianne. Go ahead, Lamont. Just to your last point, all that's well and good. I wasn't even referring to the Beyonce lyric, but I'm not, whether I like hot sauce or not, I'm not bringing it to a radio interview. That's all I want.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Wait, wait, see. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait. See, hold up. See, this is where you got dealing facts, Lamont. She was asked, what do you carry in your bag? She said, hot sauce. Everybody,

I remember the story very well. People went, oh, she said it because of the Beyonce song. What I'm saying is she literally has been carrying hot sauce for 20 years. But people, what they did is they jumped to the conclusion that,

oh, she just trying to pander to black people about hot sauce because Beyonce had it in her song. But if you've been doing it 20 years before Beyonce even dropped the song, it ain't pandering. It's just you actually liking hot sauce. So the mistake is when we make assumptions and call something pandering

when it's really what somebody actually does. Now, if there's a politician who ain't never gone to no black restaurant, ain't never done anything or whatever, and then you can do that, but here's the other thing that to me is hilarious. This shit is also called politics. The reality is politicians, when you run for office, you go to places to get votes.

And so guess where you go? You go to bars, restaurants. You go to all kind of establishments. You go to malls. George H.W. Bush, y'all might remember when he went to a grocery store and he got criticized because he did not know the price of milk when it was being scanned. And even that story is not necessarily even true. But guess what? George H.W. Bush was vice president for eight years and then he was president for four years.

We know his ass wasn't going grocery shopping. George H.W. Bush was vice president for eight years, and then he was president for four years. We know his ass wasn't going grocery shopping. The last time he went grocery shopping, they literally had clerks manually writing up the prices. So I just, so again, no, I appreciate her stopping by. And you know what? I hope Vice President Kamala Harris stopping by the Busy B does the same thing for them that Keith Lee does, stopping by some joints. Keith Lee, yeah. And folks actually show up. And so I'm glad she did it. And so there we go.

All right. That's it for me. I'm a Congo, Julian Lamont. We appreciate y'all being on the show. Thanks a bunch. Folks, got to go to break. We come back. Gospel singer Anthony Brown,

he and I sit down for a great conversation. I think you're gonna enjoy this. That's next on the Black Star Network. When you talk about blackness and what happens in black culture, we're about covering these things that matter to us, speaking to our issues and concerns.

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What's happening, man? Man, I'm feeling good. Blessed to be here, man, in your space. Well, you know, this is where we make all the magic happen. Absolutely. All right, what's up with the trucker hat? What's up? You know what?

You feeling a little Darius Rucker? Man, I am. I am. You know, it makes me a little bad boy of gospel on it a little bit. But, no, I would say I think I got the king hat on today, right? Huh? I got a king hat on today. Right, right, right.

Yeah. I feel like a king today. That's why I wear this trucker hat. Spence, let's talk about where gospel is today. I love all these different categories. I love when I hear urban contemporary, neo-gospel. Okay, now you're going. Tradition.

I mean, you start hearing all these different phrases. So, what lane do you believe that you fit in? What a question. What a question. After you talk about my rebel hat. You know what's funny, Roland? Last week, somebody introduced me it was on like a third-grade Marshall event

here for our scholarships here in D.C. And they introduced me and said American American Urban Contemporary Gospel Artist. Longest title, weirdest title I ever heard in my life. But that's how they introduced me. American Urban Contemporary Gospel Artist. I said, okay, fine. All of it's true. A little bit.

But I hate the idea of being boxed into a title anyway. And I love the fact that even with gospel right now, we're kind of getting rid of all of these very boxed-in titles, and people are just presenting inspiration at the level that they feel, that they're inspired to do it, or how they tick. I like that. Bless you. I feel like, for me, some days I'm super urban and I'm a rebel. Other days, you know, catch me on the choir road with a choir in front of me.

Other days, I'm spirituals and hymns and real, you know, classical. That's my base. Other days, I want to wild out and I want to be a thug. And all of it is me. And it's all authentic. And it's all okay. And I think there's room for all of it. So I'm going to answer your question by saying, yeah, don't give me no title.

Just let me be who I am every day. And if that meets you where you are today, then I did my job. Well, I think it's always interesting when you go to a gospel concert. A gospel concert. Because you have, you got the real traditional folk. You do.

I mean, you got the elder on the front bench, church usher. Come on. Wearing the white gloves, church usher. Come on. Wearing the white gloves, walking in. The lap scarf. You know, on beat. You got those folks. That's my childhood.

Then you got just a whole new generation that ain't tripping on wearing suits and big church hats. Right. And they are praising worshiping in a different way. Sure. And the reality is you're supposed to meet folk where they are. 100%. And I think a lot of times folks are driven away. Because of the boxes?

Yeah. Because of the stigma? Because of the boxes, the rules. Absolutely. You know, you can only do this, and you can only do this. You can't do this. And so to me, that limits, frankly, the gospel. Sure.

No, 100%. You actually said something my mother says to me like every week when I go out. She says, Anthony, write songs that meet people where they live. And that's always been my thing from day one, Roland, is to write songs that meet people where they live. Well, now we are ministering to a generation that's like, Jesus loves me and my tattoos. So some of them still weren't traditional, but there's a scripture in the

Bible that I love to reference about this, where Paul said, I become all things to all men that I might save some. In other words, be as authentic as you are. And there's somebody who needs that the way that you have it. I remember reading a story and it was a guy and he was he was ministering to bikers. Bikers.

To bikers. And he was he was talking about how I approach them. And he said, I can't approach them sitting there quoting the scripture and hitting them left and right. And it was how he dressed. He also was on a bike as well. People were like, oh, my goodness. There you go. Like, how dare you?

And he said, I'm sorry, me having a leather jacket on and riding his motorcycle. And, yes, on the outward, oh, my goodness, you're just this wild rebel. He said, no, no, no, no, I knew him on the inside. And it was an amazing story because he said, if I'm trying to reach that person, I have to do so in a way where they are comfortable with me as opposed to me trying to approach them and making them uncomfortable. Absolutely. He who wins souls is wise.

You know, the audiences that I've been blessed to be a part of are like the ones you just described. Like, I'm a son of a Baptist preacher. So church is what I know. I understand the culture of it. However, I live in a 2023 real world. As a black man in America, I have that experience to bring to the table. I feel like you'd be doing yourself a disservice by trying to fit yourself in a box. You're going to leave somebody out.

And I think all that we do in gospel music is bait. So it's bait for some fishers out there. Just because it might not be what you would grab ahold of doesn't mean it's useless or that it doesn't have merit. Somebody needs it the way that you have it. Somebody else needs it the way somebody else has it. All of it works to me. And I feel like you should just be your authentic self, and you'll get the fish you're supposed to get.

So how do you deal with that when you're at First Baptist? Ha! When you've got different services, different people, and you just make them want to just go, then Pastor Jenkins is like... Absolutely. Have you ever gotten that look from Pastor Jenkins? Man. Anthony.

Probably from day one. First of all, a roller nose to my church. Shout out to my pastor, Pastor Jenkins. And my church, First Baptist, Glen Arden. Absolutely. I came there 15 years ago with a mohawk. He was from day one. He was like, what is this?

You came in with a mohawk? I came in with a mohawk. That was like my day one. I had a mohawk. And after I got on stage with a mohawk, then a whole bunch of young kids started to get mohawks. And then some of the older deacons, too. That's when it was like, yo, get that mohawk out of here.

But to your point, I feel like I know how to go into any environment and be what that environment needs. And that's the wise part about it. When it says he who wins souls is wise. Just because I am a rebel, don't mean I'm going to come to the first Baptist church when they aren't on stage and just turn up and lose the people.

Like, nah, you should be wise about how you approach it. So when I go there, can I clean it up, put on a suit, put on a choir robe, direct the choir? Yes, every Sunday. When I leave there on Sunday night, if I'm going to a club in Detroit to perform, I'm going to turn up, bring out the chain,

throw on a hat, but all of it's me. I'm not to a club in Detroit to perform, I'm going to turn up, bring out the chain, throw in the hat, but all of it's me. I'm not putting off anybody. It's all me. Yeah, but at the time when you're like, okay, I'm going to slide in and a little something, something here. Absolutely. 100%. I forget about this. And you know what's funny? When you think Pastor Jenkins would like reject that, he'd be up there dancing with me right side by side, doing the

B.O.B. bounce on stage, which is what I love. So now I don't get no flack from no, I don't get no flack from him. I don't get no flack from him. Came with a mohawk. Yes, sir. He's going to love this part of the interview when he sees this. Mohawk out. He was like, absolutely not.

He looked at me like, okay, what is this, or whatever. But he never turned me down for those reasons. Once he heard my gift, it was a gift that I was shined out with appearance. And I think that's what people get hung up on. They see people, how they look. They write them off. He didn't do that to me. Because you know there are a lot of head of music

and pastor battles. Man, oh my goodness. I know you've heard some horror stories. We ain't got time for the conversation in this meeting. Horror stories. But the funny part about it is those two things are the elements people come to church for. To come for a good word,

to come for good music. So it behooves us to be able to work together. And I think Pastor Jenkins has done an amazing job with that. I love my church experience. Who have you studied in terms of... So two. One being

minister of music in the church. Is there anybody you studied where you said, man, I just like how they do it, how they present it, just how they flow? Absolutely. One of my biggest inspirations in that realm is Marelle Brown-Clark. She's a gospel artist as well. She has managed to be able to be a gospel artist out here, saving the world through her music ministry, but also faithful to her local church. For me, that was always important.

I always wanted to feel like I had, well, not feel like I had, I know I have a local call to my local assembly and a global call. You don't see a lot of examples of people who can do both or that even think both are important, but I don't think I would want to have one without the other. I think people who have the global call part down don't have the anchor of a pastor, a leader, and a solid foundation at home that I think sometimes is necessary to make sure you don't

go too far out there. Then on the flip side, having a local church is great for me so that when I do go out there and I do my global call, I know there's always somebody back at home. If they reject me, if they hate me, if they don't like what I did tonight, when I go back home, it's going to be like cheers. Everybody knows your name. I'm back home.

You know what I mean? Now on the global call, who have you really liked, admired, either growing up or even present day, where you said, I vibe with that person? So I think, you know, what people call the goat in gospel, of course, is a great example. Kirk Franklin is definitely one of the greatest to ever do it and he's seemed to be able to be relevant in the culture but still be undeniably who he is as a christian as a believer very authentic i think that i love that when it comes to presentation um i think donald lawrence is like the most classic picture of just being true to your art like he's been my biggest inspiration when it comes to just being true to your art. Like, he's been my biggest inspiration when it comes to just being true to your art.

Like, you know, the trends of music come and go, but if this is who you are, be that. Know that there's an audience that loves that. He's the consistent, like, bar for that to me. So I would throw out those two names for sure. How important is it to be a student of the craft? I... How important is it to be a student of the craft? I, when young folk come up to me and they say, man, I want to do what you do. Then my response is, but do you want to do what I do?

Gotcha. And then when you, because when I throw that out, for a lot of them, they look at me like I'm crazy, and I'm going, if you want to be really great, not popular, not want to be seen in airports and taking selfies, for me, it is study the craft. And you actually never stop learning. No. That to me. So talk about why that is so valuable, studying the craft. Whether it's songwriting, whether it's singing, whether it's stage presentation, whether it's

choir directing, any of that. Right. Even though I feel like you are, every person is unique in nature, you are still following the blueprint that somebody else laid out in some way, shape, or form. People who don't study their craft to me just are blowing in the wind. You really just wanted a platform. You didn't want necessarily to be a part of the building of a particular thing. And for me, I feel like with gospel music, you're a part of a legacy that was already

established. So it's great for me to be unique in what I present. I'm not saying don't do that, but I am saying it'd be great to know what did the Caravans do at the height of their career that grabbed the attention of people? What did the Hawkins do? What was it that made them be what they are? What did Donnie McClure can do? What did Mary Mary do? So for me, studying the craft as a kid was going up.

This was vinyls. I'm about to date myself a little bit because this was not cities yet. It was still record That's what I grew up in miles over my daddy was playing records, but I wanted to read that information When cities came out, I wanted to read them credits who is doing this stuff and what's their story? that's always about thinking to your point like I never stopped doing that because I feel like if One day 20 years from now, somebody turns one of my CDs over and reads it, I want them to know a little bit of my story and study that and help that to become a compass to where they're going in their journey.

I just saw an interview that Ice-T did where he talked about that. He talked about when albums were done. Yes. And he said where everything was a line or notes. And you studied who was the sound engineer and the mixer. Absolutely. And who played this instrument on that piece. And he said that whole album told a story.

Wow. And to me, that's how I look at it in terms of studying the craft. Yes, sir. Like, there's a bunch of folk who can sing. Right. But how do you take care of your voice? You know, how do you make it better? Jeffrey Osborne said to me during COVID, because they couldn't tour or whatever, he started

taking voice lessons again. Oh, wow. And he said, I hadn't taken voice lessons in 20, 30 years, he said, but this was an opportunity. And here's Jeffrey, 70, 71, his idea was, I want my voice to get better. That to me is, I tell people, about studying the craft. Forget the success, the money, the fame, all that sort of stuff like that. That means that you want to be as great as you possibly can be. All the craft. Forget the success, the money, the fame, all that sort of stuff like that. That means that you want to be as great as you possibly can be.

All the way. And that means putting the work in. You know, first of all, I'm so glad you said that. I'm looking at you, sitting across from you, and you've been doing this thing for a long time. To me, that means that you've also given me your chance not only to learn the craft, but to evolve. And evolution, I think, is important in any artist's life or career. So, like, at the height of things with Worth, if I just stop there, if I just sit on the laurel of what that was, then I'll stop evolving, I'll stop growing, and I think that that was all that I could produce.

Well, I'm still living, and that experience is still happening. So the next record, I'm not trying to live up to that mountain anymore. Let's go on the journey of who I'm becoming today. Right. And there are people who want to go along on that journey. I think that is so important if you ever want to be the Roland Martin of gospel music. See, I think when I look at the measurement, I play golf, and I played golf for 35 years. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. It's a putting ring right there. It's a nine-foot putting ring. Y'all can't see it, but it's a nine-foot putting ring right there. I got the exact same one in my house. Done deal. Oh, absolutely. And I was talking to somebody about this, and they said, well, do you gamble playing golf?

And I said, sometimes we may play for, you know, dollar a hole or whatever. But then that's what I told them. I said, the beauty of golf is you're actually competing against yourself. There are no teammates. It's not me against you. You're actually competing against yourself. Against yourself. And that is, I shot this score.

What's my best score? Right. How low can I go? Right. And I sort of look at it the same way. I don't look at other people. I don't look at what somebody else is doing and say, okay, we're competing against them.

No. My deal is, I'm actually competing against myself so if my so if my standard is here if I'm trying to go here but they got nothing to you right so I don't care what you're doing right because this is what I'm actually competing against I love it so for you when you are on that stage, when you're writing, when you are singing, how are you trying to measure yourself? Man.

Sorry, I'm just chewing on what you just said. Because this is an area where a lot of people struggle. And I'm sorry, I'm about to bring it back to the Bible again. Pastor Jenkins, you be proud of me. There's a scripture that talks about this. Don't look to the left or the right. The comparison is the thief of joy. That exists in every kind of demographic.

For us as gospel artists and musicians, there's always a new hot next. In the music period, there's always a new hot next. So if you let the people's praise of you one day dictate who you are the next day, you're going to ebb and flow with how they feel about music, and that changes every day. My mark, I said for myself, is so different from that. What I try to do, to your

point, is just literally figure out, the last time I did this song, this is how I felt, and this is how people responded. What can you do differently about this song to grab a hold of another person in that audience? I think we were just together at one of the tour stops, and this is how people responded, what can you do differently about this song to grab a hold of another person in that audience? I think we were just together at one of the tour stops, and the people went, my goal is this.

Here's my goal. How can I create this song, this moment, this thought in music in such a way that you take it, and you own it, and it becomes yours? So if every time that I sing songs that God has given me, I have to be the one to deliver the message, then I feel like that's my marker.

I'm trying to figure out for you to sing this song like it's yours and let me just stand there and let you have your moment. So when y'all did your hit song... When I got that, you know, my turn up, turn up. You were trying to move on. Was I ever. I was done. When you done? They was not finished I was done. When you done?

They was not finished. They like, we ain't done. The song is theirs. It's their experience. It's their life. It met them where they live, like my mother said. And for me, that's an indicator that I'm here on my assignment right. Now, you could have stopped it.

And I've seen some artists who are like, look, I got other stuff I want to sing. I want to go on. To me, it's akin to if you are a preacher, and I saw this once, actually I've seen it a couple times, where the praise and worship was so powerful that the preacher

never got to the sermon. Now, that takes an ego-less person to go, the moment is so powerful that it ain't about me and my sermon. That what I need to do is flow in the spirit and wherever it takes me, that's where we go. As opposed to me shutting it down. Absolutely. And then now trying to go here, and I may never be able to recapture that moment.

That, to me, I think also happens if you're on stage. A hundred percent. And for us, if I'm a servant, if you're getting what you need, then that was the goal. If you're getting what you need, then that was the goal. So that day, I think we had maybe three or four songs to do. We only got through two and a half. But the people who came, what they needed was that.

And I'll make sure that guy was like, go ahead and drink from that. If we're there, and you're getting what you need, drink from that. Next time you see me, then we'll keep going. I think it was Donnie, it might have been Donald Lawrence. No, it was Donald Lawrence. He always told us, always leave him one more. So, if that's all you got for me the next time, I mean, this time,

the next time I'll come back and give you a little bit more. And the thing, to me, I think the thing about the moment in Gossip Music, again, it might be a praise song. It might be a worship song. And I remember I was at Salem Baptist Church. I was a member when I was there. And they were, and it was all kind of stuff that was happening. And it was, this was when I was at CNN.

This was, it was Tom Journal Morning Show. It was like all this, it was like stuff that was just happening. And I remember church was over and the choir was still going. Gotcha. And I was just standing. And I remember church was over and the choir was still going. Gotcha. And I was just standing there just in it. And Walter, who is the head of music,

he said, he walked over to me, he said, he said, one, can I pray with you? He said, but I can sense

you needed to hear what the choir was doing. And I wasn't paying attentioning who was around me. I didn't care. We were done. We may have been at least 15, 20 minutes and the choir was still going. At the church.

Right. So again, that's the power to me of the music. Absolutely. Where you don't know who's going through something. Absolutely. But they need that at that moment, at that time, in that place. See, that has to be the goal.

If you decide you're going to go on an inspiration celebration gospel tour, the goal is to make sure people leave inspired that they can celebrate. That's the point. So if I don't get through all of my songs and my set, if that's my indicator, then it's about me. But I'm a servant. I'm a servant to

this thing. And that's whether you're at church or whether you're in the biggest venue possible. The goal is to make sure that the audience that's coming gets what they need. You're a servant to that. Have you, I'm sure you have, walked to that stage and this is my set

list. But then the room starts speaking to you. And then you get that look like, we ain't doing that. We're about to go another way. Just follow me. I got to go here. Yes, sir. And that's probably scary for a lot of people because that's so off the beaten path. But for people who need organization and structure, and from here to there,

that dynamic will not only mess them up, it'll probably also ruin the moment. Because then you're just going to move on from a moment that people actually need. Me, because I'm a bit of a radical, I thrive in that environment. Because for me, again, as a servant to the people, I'm like, I'm going to make sure you get what you need.

It's like, I have the same approach, because I don't write speeches. So I literally... You don't write speeches? No. Don't write speeches. So I literally... You don't write speeches? No. Don't write speeches. So you're coming to... You're asked to come and speak.

You're literally going to speak from your heart. Yeah. And they might give me the theme and whatever. I'll take it under consideration. Gotcha. But I may go somewhere else.

Got it. And I literally... And when I say... I gave a speech in Florida. This woman came up to me. She had a black paper. She's like, Oh, my God. She says, We want to run your whole had a black paper. She's like, oh, my God.

She says, we want to run your whole speech in the paper. I was like, y'all better transcribe it. Oh, man, good luck. And she was like, what do you mean? I said, baby, that sucker wasn't written. She's like, well, can I get your notes? I was like, what? No, no.

I don't have no notes. She said, you didn't have any in-depth card? No notes? I was like, nope. See? She said, well, did you write the tie down? Nope. See.

And so literally, there have been moments, a lot of times, again, where I'm sitting there. And again, I'm waiting to speak. And again, I might be taking pictures or whatever. But I remember this one time I was sitting there and I knew something. And I was like, yo, I don't want to be bothered. And they were coming to me like, hey, you want something to drink? No, I'm fine. Want something to eat? No, I'm fine. And I was just like,

they were just like, what is he doing? I'm like, wait till I get that microphone. I mean, it was... I got something. I got to get out of here. Right. What I'm talking about was lighting them up and then it was so funny because I'm telling you, like what I knew when I stepped up,

I knew what was going to happen. Right. When I got to the microphone. In fact, I think I spoke at Virginia. I was his sister. She's supposed to do a gospel song after me. She's like,

I'm so happy to be here. She says, they got me to sing. I said, you don't want to do that. She's like, what do you mean? I said,

you don't want to sing that song. Not after I get done. She's like, no, it's fine. I said, no, it's minute. I said, you don't want to sing that song after I get done. She's like, no, it's fine. I said, no, it's not. I said, I'm telling you what's going to happen when I finish. So I suggest you sing that song before I speak. I said, because when I get done, I'm going to clear the room. I know a lot of cops,

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Workers skilled through alternative routes, rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. See, that's the confidence of knowing. And I was just like, I'm just letting you know. Absolutely. I mean, so I knew what,

I mean, it was like, I'm telling you. So she's saying before, she's saying before I did. She did it before. She's saying before. Okay. Then it was over. She's like, man, I'm so glad you did it. She was like, and I said, yo, but kudos to you for letting her know, man. I try

to tell them to give the awards out. And I tell people, that's not being cocky. It's not being arrogant. But when you know a word is being placed in your spirit. Absolutely. And you know what you're going to do.

It's like, I'm telling y'all. It would be a bad idea for y'all to pray. Don't put nothing behind me. The only thing that should follow me is the benediction. The benediction and go home. Don't put stuff behind you. The only thing that should follow me is the benediction. The benediction and go home. Don't put yourself behind. But you know what? I'm glad you said

that though because for artists and even for people who do what we do, entertainment space, who are watching this, it's good for you to know that there's always preparation. There's always be prepared. No, study. Absolutely. Learn all that you can. But then there's also this inherent knowing that everybody has. If you listen, if you tune in and listen on

the inside, when just something will drop in your spirit that you know is for that environment, for that moment, for that time. And that's what you should be dialing into. Pass the study, pass the set list, pass the whatever. No, tune in to what's going on inside of you. Because most times whatever needs to happen as the reason why you're there for that event, it's already happened inside of you. You know how many people will only miss the moment that they went somewhere

or why they went because they won't tune in to what they've been told? When they tried to take me to a room, I said no. See? You want to be in the atmosphere. We got a room for you. I'm like, I said no. See? Every time. You want to be in the atmosphere. We got a room for you. I'm like, I'm fine. Now I hear you. And I literally will.

No, I won't. I want to stand. I don't even feel this. They don't understand. Yes, sir. It's total discernment. And I'll tell them, no. And they're like, are you OK?

I'm like, no, I'm fine. But I don't want to sit. I want to stand in that room. Yes. And I want to feel it. And I want to feel it and I want to see it. And all those spirits that are moving and flowing. Absolutely. And they're speaking the whole time.

I did a meet and greet. It was in Portland, Oregon. I did a meet and greet. And I'd already sort of decided what I was going to speak on. But it was something a woman said to me in line. The moment she said it, I threw that out my brain. And I took

that, it was something she said, and I literally put together an entire speech based on what she said. And what was crazy is, and I always use this line, and it's really for the point of getting people to laugh. I talked about how, I said, yeah, they sent me

we had a call, they sent me all this sort of stuff. I said, but I ain't paying attention to that. So I laugh, and then I said, so as I'm thinking about it, so I'm laying this whole thing out. So this guy in front, he's hot. I mean, he he's hot.

He was the leader of the group. I mean, his whole body language. Oh, man. But see, what we didn't realize is I picked up on that body language earlier. Gotcha. And I didn't like his spirit when I met him. Gotcha. And so now I'm at the microphone, so I'm purposely tweaking him.

Oh, man. He's burning up. And I'm talking about burning up. I'm talking about just, I mean, I could just, I could feel it and sense it. I just kept turning that knife. So when it was over, he gets the speaker's bureau and they say, wait, we need to talk to you because

this guy said that you, that you were rude, that you didn't take pictures of people. I was like, baby, he lying. The woman was like, what do you mean? I said, I guarantee you lying. I said, I always stay. I said, unless I he lying. This woman was like, what do you mean? I said, I guarantee you lying. I said, I always stay. I said, unless I literally have to go. I said, I guarantee you he lying.

Guarantee you he lying. And they wanted me. I mean, it was all kinds of stuff. It was total lie. And so that's why when I'm in that place, I want to know. I want to feel it. I want to. A hundred percent. Don want to feel it. I want to. A hundred percent.

Don't be mad when my light frustrates your demons. It's not me you don't like. You don't like this light that God gave me to shine on whatever is dark in here. That's all that was. But that's why you just said something that I love about that's the antithesis of what most artists experience. So, you know, you want to get to the point where one day somebody's whisking you away to a special little green room off the beaten path where you can't hear nothing, bringing you green M&Ms and whatever.

But that isolates you in such a way where you have no idea what environment you're walking into. Yep. So no wonder you walked out. You're doing your set list, but nobody's responding because you have no idea what happened before you got there, what's happening after you get there. It's important for you to be dialed in enough to be like,

no, let me figure out who's coming. So I know for this tour, I love all the artists who are on the tour. I love them already anyway. So I want to see their set anyway. But knowing how that set is going, seeing the picture that's painted is important because that's a great way for you to figure out, no, I'm not about to flip the mood right here.

There's already a mood happening right now. Why would I come in and just shift the whole mood on some else? Because my set list is that, no, tune in. Tune in. Stop being so grand. There you go. There you go. If there was a

gospel versus. Oh, my God. And it's not, and I tell people all the time, it's not a question of you're competing against somebody else. Sure. But if that was how I sort of see it, a gospel versus, because I believe it's sort of like when Sam Cooke and the Soulsters and the Gospel Caravan, all them cats, Dixie, when them cats travel, they were like, you know what, I'm going to kick y'all behind tonight. So they, you know, it pulled the best out of them. Who would you love to do a Gospel Versus with? First of all, I'm thinking about Versus because I love that platform.

You got a mic on that side. One stage. And it could be an individual or a group, but that would just be crazy for the audience. For the audience. Man.

Oh, man, that is a crazy question. I have no idea. You know, I would think from the group aspect, it would be somewhere along the lines of like

the Walls group. Okay. Just because group-wise, like, you know, people like to hear the harmonies and whatnot that we produce and that we sing. I have great love and admiration for them. So it wouldn't be a competition. It'd be an honor thing. Same thing with Donald Lawrence and Richard Smallwood and these guys.

We are because of them. So, I mean, that would be like a landslide. They would win because I would honor them so much. Like, there's nothing I can do with you. But I think people would love to see that. People would love to see it. All right, last question. So, we talked to Bree.

Yes. She struggled mightily because I made a reference to. She struggled mightily? She struggled mightily. Sorry, Bree. I made a... First of all, because she asked me not to ask you or Hezekiah. She's like, well, they're going to know.

But she wanted me to ask everybody else. Okay. And some of the people failed the same test, so I'm holding Bree's black card right now. Okay, very good. It's in review status. Because I was talking and I made a reference to Commodores and Zoom, and she had no idea what I was talking about. She didn't know what the Commodores were at all?

No, she didn't know. She ain't never heard of Zoom. She didn't know that. Okay. Then I said Lionel Richie. She thought I meant Little Richard. That's not true. Strip. More of not true. Straight.

More of the clip. Straight up. Now, then we played the song. Oh, yeah, I heard the song, but, like, literally it was kind of like, I don't know who that is. Okay. And then she was like, yeah, I don't know. Then I said,

LTD Jeffrey Osborne. Why did, no. She was like, Jeffrey Osborne. Why did... No. She was like, Jeffrey Osborne ain't black. He can't be black with Lassie M. Osborne.

That's literally what she said. She said, call LTD Larry Tom and Dick. Oh, she was playing. No. She was joking. No. Roll the clip.

No. Brie literally was like, I don't know who them people are. That's before a generation, though. But I told her, I said, hold up. I said, you know some gospel people before your generation. Then she blamed it on her dad and said he should have played the music, whatever. Yes, I heard you.

But I said, baby, listen, you're going to. Come on, Rolla. Give her a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Nope. I grew up in the household, too. We didn't listen to secular music in my household growing up. But you know who the Commodores are. I know who the Commodores are.

You know who Lionel Richie is. I know who Lionel Richie is. You know who LTD is. I know who LTD is. You know who Jeffrey Osborne is. I know who Jeffrey Osborne is. That's what I'm saying. I ain't acting.

No, I told her. I said, and I think Doe... Oh, man. Let me see. Doe, and one of the Walls group, the other ones, they all be... dough. Oh, man. Let me see. Dough. One of the walls grew. The other ones, they all be strong. I said, all y'all need to go to black music class. Oh,

my goodness. All of them. Give them a break. They got to go to black music class. Give them a break. No breaks. Rolling's being hard body on y'all. Okay, wherever y'all at, I'm sorry. I'm trying to be with y'all. But if you grew up in a household like some of us did, no, there wasn't no secular music out there.

But I did learn those things. I told them they got to catch up. I was like, go to Black Night class. What's them jokes that be on social media where it's like you get one point for everyone that you know, they ain't get no points. No, they ain't get no points.

I get 22, 23. Yeah, they ain't get no points, though. No, they ain't get no points. Typically, though, I get 22, 23. Yeah, they ain't get no points. Got it. Yeah, I told all of them. Lord Jesus. Y'all have homework. Help them, Jesus. Yeah.

They didn't know the elements. Come on, everybody knows the elements. This is real music we're talking about. The elements known as earth, wind, and fire. I didn't ask if my earth, wind, and fire. You don't have to do that. Okay, I'll ask them. But they had no idea. Wow. Literally. And then we play do that. Okay, I'll ask them. But they had no idea.

Wow. Literally. And then we played, oh, yeah, I heard the song. Oh, yeah, I heard that song. I was like, learn who's singing it. Okay, done deal. Learn who's singing the song. Done deal.

That's what I told them. I'm done with this whole interview. I got to go find my people. Yes. Y'all embarrassing us on the world stages right now. Yes, on the McDonald's tour show. Look, I said, look, while you're eating your Big Mac or your quarter pounder. There you go.

You listen to Zoom. No way. And Love Ballad. I'm going to fix them. With my next set, I'm going to put an EWF reference in there. And everybody's going to know. We're going to all learn it while we're on this McDonald's Inspiration Celebration. Okay.

All right. Do that. Hold me to it. Do that. Hold me to it. Do that. There you go. Yeah, I'm throwing Love that. Hold me to it. Do that. Hold me to it. Do that. There you go. Yeah, I'm throwing love battles or something.

Something. They. I got it. I'll take care of them. Give me a break. I'm going to get them. Don't worry. You got it?

I got it. Okay, all right. That's my assignment. Oh, that's your assignment. That's my assignment. All right, appreciate it. Educator. I got it.

Let's do it together. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it together. Just because you are my father Help me say it No more crying I believe in the word I believe in the word Let's say it Lord, you're my father Lord, you're wrong. You're wrong. Lord, you're wrong. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me.

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