#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Juneteenth on #RMU: Ghana's Amb on uniting Africans & the diaspora; Reparations hearing on The Hill

Episode Date: June 22, 2019

#RMU celebrates Juneteenth! June19th also known as Juneteenth is the day we celebrate the ending of slavery in the United States; His Excellency Dr. Barfuor Adjei-Burwah, Ghana's Ambassador to the U.S. discusses the Year of Return and the campaign to unite Africans and the diaspora; Ta-Nahesi Coates and Danny Glover talk reparations on Capitol Hill; Rev. William Barber is forcing American to address poverty and intensifies call for a moral revival. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Thank you. Martin! Thank you. I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. I'm out. Martin! happy juneteenth folks coming up a rolling mark unfiltered for june 19th 2019 the ambassador of agon to the u.s uh will join me and we'll talk about the Juneteenth celebration today, plus this being the year of return, marking 400 years since the first 20-odd Africans arrived in Virginia in August of 1619. Also today on Capitol Hill, there was a hearing dealing with reparations. And of course, it was quite interesting. You had a lot of people who were talking, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Danny Glover, but then you had Republicans trotted out a couple of folks. Everybody asking, why the hell were they there? That made no sense whatsoever.

Also on Capitol Hill, Reverend William Barber testified before the Budget Committee hearing representing the Poor People's Campaign. We'll have that for you. Also, we've got new black mayors in Kansas City and Dallas. And also, I've got some word for the South Carolina Democratic Party. They are only allowing MSNBC to broadcast or live stream from their state convention Friday and Saturday, locking out C-SPAN, Fox News, CNN. But I'm going to talk about how this also locks out black media companies like this one wait till we break it down it's time to bring the funk and roll the mark on the filter let's go And it's rolling, best believe he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics.

With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling with Uncle Roro, y'all. It's rolling, Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real The best you know, he's rolling Martin Now

Martin Today is Juneteenth. It is the day where we recognize the end of slavery. Even though the Mass Pension Proclamation was signed in 1863, it wasn't until 1865 on this day when slaves in Texas found out they were free. When the general came to the shores of Galveston, Texas to make the announcement. Texas became the first state in the country to actually create this day as a state holiday as a result of Al Edwards, who served in the legislature there. So we certainly appreciate all that he has done. As a result, Juneteenth is now celebrated all across the country. It is the only day that recognizes, the only holiday whatsoever that recognizes slaves.

Well, this year also marks the 400th anniversary of the first 20-odd Africans arriving on the shores of the United States in Virginia in August of 1619. Beginning with the first of the year, there have been lots of events called the Year of Return, and a number of African countries are also participating in the Year of Return, including one of the leading country that's been Ghana. Joining us right now is His Excellency Dr. Barfur Ajay Berwa who is the Ghana's ambassador to the United States. Dr. Berwa how you doing? Not too bad doing very well. So let's talk about this because when we talk about this being Juneteenth, when we talk about, again, the year

of return, it really has rejuvenated for many people this need for a connection between African Americans and African nations. If all y'all, Africa is a continent not a country and so how has this been received tell us what is happening in Ghana when it comes to the year of return well you know that I am Ghana actually know designated this as the year of return and it is meant to mark no as you mentioned, the arrival of the first African slaves in this country. But we are also making it a point of igniting a certain kind of connection between brothers and sisters. The brothers who, against their will, left the shores of Africa and came to this country, operated under very difficult circumstances, had to learn a language that they never knew, and in the process they

mastered the language. They wrote songs, they wrote sonnets, they wrote poems and all that in that language. And in fact also raised the delivery in that language to a very high level. And in fact at the moment a lot of African Americans are excellent exponents on the delivery of the language. Besides the fact that they didn't have much of a higher standard of structured education, they wrote books, they published a lot of literature. A lot of them became scientists and such and made significant contributions to the development of this country to make it what she is today and they are still contributing so we in you know in

talking about a year of return we are also saying that brothers and sisters ought to come home to see the homes that they left to see what is it that is going on to taste the hospitality that they haven't probably had for a very long time and besides since we consider them brothers and sisters Ghana is their home and home is where you go and they have to take you in and they're number African Americans who've actually moved to Ghana yeah Michelle McKinney Hammond her father lived her father lived there, passed away, and had a home there. And she's since moved there. A few years ago, I connected with a sister who did business here in Washington, D.C., and she opened a couple of golf shops in Ghana and some other

countries as well. Ghana has really spent a lot of time over the last couple of decades really emphasizing travel back. And so I would dare say probably more African Americans likely come to Ghana each year than any other African nation because of that level of outreach. Exactly. And in fact, quite a number of them, as we said, have moved there and settled. And a lot of West Indians have also moved to Ghana and settled. And it's basically because we, as I mentioned earlier, we consider African Americans as brothers and sisters. And the year of return, we are using it to, as it were, renew the necessity for forging together. Because whatever way we look at it, we are just two communities across the pond.

And the genesis of our settlement, obviously, even though different, actually doesn't cancel the fact that we are all related. And I suspect that, you know, even you, Roland, you've been to Ghana a few times, but I'm sure that if you're in the streets of Ghana and you don't speak first, somebody might speak a local language to you because of the way you look and all that. So we consider the two sides as one community,

which has undergone different experiences and we ought to be able to cross fertilize each other for the pure and simple reason that you know time and whatever that has happened hasn't been able to as it will wash away the fact that we are related you talk about uh you're right i first visited in 2008 uh and uh had a very good time there and it's so funny too because uh when black panther came out uh everybody was talking about wakanda wakanda wakanda and then i would i would wear i had i i bought a number of outfits from there and actually had a number of made people say oh my goodness wakanda i'm like no no no gh Ghana I'm like I actually been there yes and and and again even with Black Panther again that coming out again

this whole sense of pride and I spoke at a technology conference and one of the things that that I think is critically important um is that we're seeing the Chinese we're seeing other countries of course the French and others we're seeing folks still doing business taking natural resources how critically is important you know what is the agenda of the Ghanaian president to say we want to be doing business with African Americans African Americans who are in construction who are in engineering who are in doing any number of things? Well, you know, the slant, basically, and as it were, the concentration,

is that we would want to do more business with African Americans, partly because of the common heritage, and then also partly because a lot of them are very stilled in the areas that they are. And we do believe that if we were getting closer, the benefits really, as it were, spread on either side of the pond. And more so, some of us might argue that the devil you know is better than the angel you never met. And therefore, at least the African Americans, we do know that somewhere along the line, there is something in all of us that is common. And therefore, should there be any significant advantages, we ought to be able to share those advantages. And that is why we are making this effort to engage African Americans

because of the fact that I'm sure if African countries are shining, there is a reflection on African Americans. And indeed, since we consider African Americans as brothers and sisters, we can basically argue that you cannot sit somewhere else and watch your house burn on the other side. Because sometimes somebody might ask you, when are you going home, knowing very well that the home that they are referring to is the one that got burnt. So we do have this commonality of interest that we would want to protect, we would want to expand, we would want to explore, so that at least on both sides of the community, we

all feel like, yes, we are moving on. You're talking about the relationships. You also, I was on social media, and you waived the visa requirements between Jamaica and Ghana. Henry, go to my iPad, please. And so these are the photos that I saw off of Twitter that took place where the agreement was signed so uh so jamaicans and ghanaians no longer have to now get visas yeah uh to travel back and forth between

both countries sure yeah that is to facilitate you know the the the uh as it were interrelationships between the two communities and if i I, in islands like Jamaica and some of the other smaller islands, there are lots of names that obviously are either Ghanaian names or derivatives of Ghanaian names. So in a way, because we consider ourselves a single community. And you may know that we have legislation on the books which says that African-Americans have a right of abode in Ghana. So it's more or less translating what we know into practical terms. So you want to go from jamaica to ghana

all that you need to do is to hop onto a plane and then land in a car i want to talk about a couple of moments here so gerald horn has a book uh called the rise and fall here you can go to my ipad the rise and fall of the associated negro press claude Barnett's pan-african news and the Jim Crow paradox and was interesting when I read this book he talked a lot about what Claude Burnett was doing in terms of bringing news information back from the motherland and and and also was a transfer of information I remember years ago when Desmond Tutu Bishop Des Desmond Tutu received a trumpet award. He talked about being a child in South Africa,

but seeing the pages of Ebony Magazine and seeing how African Americans were living and how that gave them hope and inspiration fighting apartheid. Sure. So let's talk about the information because I dare say, because of the lack of black news shows on cable

networks, you don't get an opportunity to talk to African-Americans. The cable news networks aren't calling you. When African heads of state are traveling to Washington, D.C. for a variety of reasons, very rarely are they being received and talking to media outlets. Lake George Curry often with NNPA would travel. I remember the interviews that he did with Mugabe in Zimbabwe and some other leaders as well. And so how critical is the information as well in terms of having communication outlets to be able to talk to African Americans about what's also happening there in Ghana and other African nations? Well, it's important on both sides.

For instance, when I was at the university, Malcolm X came to give a lecture there, and in his presentation, he was talking about conditions in the ghetto. And he was holding a rag. And as he was talking, he molded the rag into some kind of a rat and said that he could go to some homes of African Americans and you can see rats of that size and all. But then I had a difficulty absorbing that because the material that I read and the magazines that I see obviously didn't say that. And in fact, I for one, the first

picture of Sammy Davis that I ever saw was Sammy Davis in a tuxedo standing beside a Rolls Royce. And for me, that was African American until I came to graduate school here and I learned that there were a few things that were obviously not as the magazines do say. So we needed the information to be able to recognize America as the Americans that we ought to be closer to, new. And in the same way, because we don't get much feed from African-American press, from the other stations that obviously don't concentrate on what is it that may be important or relevant to the African-American community, it becomes very difficult for us to actually strike that relationship. So now we do need a certain kind of increase in the flow of information so that in trying to build the community, in trying to bring us together,

we will know exactly where it is that we need to step, where it is that we need to emphasize, what is it that we need to ask for to be able to have a fuller understanding of the relationships that we are building. Well, I'll tell you this. You certainly are more welcome to come back on this show anytime. And also, I look forward to meeting your president and have an opportunity to sit down and chat with him as well. And I would love nothing better to be able to do a Roland Martin Unfiltered broadcast live from Ghana.

And so hopefully we can make that happen. I'm quite sure that we'll try and make that happen. And I'm very sure that our president will be very happy to have you in conversation one-to-one. All right. Well, Ambassador Berwa, we appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. And certainly good luck. And we'll be talking more about the year of return.

Wonderful. I appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. Thank you very much. All right, folks. I've got to go to a break right now. We're going to come back. We'll talk reparations hearing that took place on Capitol Hill today. Little fireworks. But also, should there have been more information on the economic side versus all the folks saying who's going to get a check?

All that more next. Roland Martin unfiltered. Back in a moment. You want to check out Roland Martin unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. That's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there? Roland Martin Unfiltered. Like, share, subscribe to our YouTube channel.

That's YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. Hey, everybody, this your man, Fred Hammond, and you're watching Roland Martin, my man, unfiltered. Hi, this is Essence Atkins, and you're watching Roland Martin, unfiltered. Hey, yo, peace world, what's going on? It's the love king of R&B, Raheem Devon,

and you're watching Roland Martin, unfiltered. Hi, my name is Bresha Webb, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Hi, my name is Bresha Webb and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. And, well, I like a nice filter usually, but we can be unfiltered. What's going on? This is Tobias Trevillian. If you're ready, you are listening to

and you are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. What's up? I'm Lance Gross and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Hi, this is Cheryl Lee Ralph and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Hi, this is Cheryl Lee Ralph, and you are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. I mean, could it be any other way? Really. It's Roland Martin. You want to support Roland Martin Unfiltered? Be sure to join our Bring the Funk fan club.

Every dollar that you give to us supports our daily digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. Support the Roland Martin Unfiltered daily digital show by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Our goal is to get 20,000 of our fans contributing 50 bucks each for the whole year. You can make this possible. RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. All right, folks. Also, the election is going to

be a Ken Light vigil at 8 p.m. this evening at what? The African American History Museum. And so it's going to be 8 p.m. this evening. And so if you're in Washington, D.C., the D.C. DMV, so hope you're able to be there. All right, folks, let's now talk reparations. That was a congressional hearing today on this very issue. It was led by, of course, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. She is a sponsor of H.R. 40 for a long time. Congressman John Conyers sponsored H.R. 40. And so this was the first hearing on this issue in more than a decade, according to Ron Daniels. I talked to him this morning on the Tom Jonah Morning Show. There are a number of people who were speakers, including Ta-Nehisi Coates, Denny Glover, but also Dr. Julianne Malveaux, who's often on our show. Here is Denny Glover

speaking today before Congress. A national reparations policy is a moral, democratic, and economic imperative. I sit here as the great-grandson of a former slave, Mary Brown, who was freed by the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863. I had the fortune of meeting her as a small child. Despite much progress over the centuries, this hearing is yet another important step in the long and heroic struggle of African Americans to secure reparations for the damages inflicted by enslavement and post emancipation and racial exclusionary policies. Many of the organizations who are present today at this hearing are amongst the historical contributors to the present national

discourse, congressional deliberations, and Democratic Party presidential campaign policy discussions about reparations. We are also indebted to the work of Congressman John Conyers for shepherding this legislation. The adoption of H.R. 40 can be a signature legislative achievement, especially within the context of the United Nations International Decade of People of African Descent. Ta-Nehisi Coates, of course, who wrote about reparations in The Atlantic, was also one of those who spoke on today's panel. Yesterday, when asked about reparations, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell offered a familiar reply. America should not be held liable for something that happened 150 years ago, since none of

us currently alive are responsible. This rebuttal proffers a strange theory of governance, that American accounts are somehow bound by the lifetime of its generations. But well into this century, the United States was still paying out pensions to the heirs of Civil War soldiers. We honor treaties that date back some 200 years, despite no one being alive who signed those treaties. Many of us would love to be taxed for the things we are solely and individually responsible for, but we are American citizens and thus bound to a collective enterprise that extends beyond

our individual and personal reach. It would seem ridiculous to dispute invocations of the founders or the greatest generation on the basis of a lack of membership in either group. We recognize our lineage as a generational trust, as inheritance, and the real dilemma posed by reparations is just that, a dilemma of inheritance. It is impossible to imagine America without the inheritance of slavery. As historian Ed Baptist has written, enslavement, quote, shaped every crucial aspect of the economy and politics of America, so that by 1836, more than 600 million, almost half of the economic activity in the United States derived directly or indirectly from the cotton produced by the million-odd slaves. By the time the enslaved were emancipated, they comprised the largest single asset in America, Danny Glover is an activist, but where were the economic

voices? And that did not sit really well with Dr. Julianne Malveaux, who is an economist, and she sort of shook the panel up. This is what she had to say. I am delighted to be here because this hearing is not on time. It's like overtime. It's more than time for us to deal with the injustices that African-American people not only have experience in history but continue to experience. I'm an economist, so economics is a study of who gets what, when, where, and why. It's a study of the way the factors of production are paid, the elements on land, labor, capital, and the secret sauce.

Some people call it entrepreneurial ability. Some call it creativity. Land gets rent, labor gets wages, capital gets interest, and the secret sauce gets profits. But the work of predatory capitalism is to figure out how to extract more from the factors of production toward capital and away from people. And we've seen that in the past three decades with our own economy. But more importantly, enslavement was about the devil's work of predatory capitalism. Indeed, enslaved people got no wages, and we represented capital for other people. And so after enslavement, first of all, enslavement was the foundation on which our country was built. So anybody who says, well, I didn't have any slaves, no, you didn't have to have any. What you had to do was experience them, enjoy the fact that they were here,

enjoy the fact that their labor made it possible for there to be a Wall Street, a bond market, and all of that. But beyond that, the post-enslavement case for reparations can be made by examining racially hostile public policy and government complicity to white supremacy. All right, folks. Now, what was real interesting about the panel is that you had folks like her and Ta-Nehisi and others who were there invited by Democrats to speak. Then the Republicans. Press play.

This is not exactly true. Mr. Glover mentioned all of the studies and books that have been written on the subject. I would argue in fact that in the 10,000 year history of slavery on every continent, there is not a single example of slavery that has been more studied than slavery in America from the 17th century to the 19th century. So it is actually not true that we have not told the truth,

that we don't know our history. Moreover, in the past 50 years, if we're talking about what scholars in America and the American social sciences have directed their attention towards, it is hard to find a subject on which more books have been written that has been more studied than racial inequality. Thank you. Thank you for that.

Mr. Owens? Well, there's a difference between what somebody said was being studied and then what really was done. Okay, so then, of course, you had this dude, Burgess Owens. Okay, y'all, here are his credentials. Former NFL player, Fox News commentator. That's the best Republicans could come up with? Press play. The greatest legacy from my dad, who served in war, World War II, came home, could not do his post-graduate down in Texas because of Jim Crow laws.

So put out a lot of letters, ran across the box when he passed away of hundreds of rejection letters. He used that as motivation because he eventually got to Ohio State where he got his Ph.D. and went on to become a very successful entrepreneur, college professor, researcher, and someone who was very proud of our race. He reached back to his very last days to the young people, giving them hope that this country, they can succeed and if they really wanted to, and if their pull themselves up by the bootstraps work harder than the next guy that's not a racist deal dagger by guys that's the American way we work harder the next guy greatest legacy from him was my belief that I would do everything I could to make sure he was proud that I held his name.

The greatest thing for my mom, my dad, is I never, ever even thought about disrespecting mom. Okay, I don't know what in the hell any of that got to do with what in the hell they were talking about. I just don't, whatever. All right, let's introduce my panel, folks. A. Scott Bolden, former chair of National Bar Association Political Action Committee. Monique Presley, legal analyst, crisis manager. Mark Thompson, host of Make It Plain. Mark, of course, was also there in the hearing today. Mark, what was interesting, again, I don't even know who the hell these two are, okay? And so here you can just do Burgess Owens, his whole put yourself up by your bootstraps, as if 400 years did not exist, as if you do not have undeniable data that shows redlining.

See, they keep talking about, obviously, 150 years since slavery ended. Well, what took place in 150 years? What took place after reconstruction? What still takes place when you talk about the home foreclosure crisis and the subprime loans as well? 53% of black wealth wiped out because of homes. And so what planet were they really on? Well, thank you for having me, by the way, Rowan. Good to see everyone. There's a reason why you haven't heard of them, because they were handpicked by the minority members of the committee. And in some of the other interactions, you saw them refer to these individuals by first name. Obviously they have relationships. If the

four of us decided to be black conservatives and Uncle Tom's like they are, we'd be big fish in a small pond. And that's how you make a name for yourself. I even engaged the young man, Coleman Hughes, because we were on a panel together on another network. And because he keeps saying that we shouldn't get individual checks. And nobody was really making that argument at the hearing. In fact, when in Colburn, the National African American Reparations Commission, they've been talking about some of the economic things that you alluded to. Maybe we'll get into that a bit later. And I said, Coleman, why don't you stop saying this thing about this individual check?

But it's a red herring to inflame the right wing and fearmonger whites that we're coming for their individual money. And that's the only role they play. Their argument was completely... of the right wing and fear-monger whites that we're coming for their individual money and that's the only role they play they are in the fields like welfare check that's right that's the cold language right also not balance for Michael Singleton who is a contributing host to consider on the box media on space more house this is why I tell people all the time you have to understand what the game is, Scott. Right. They want to reduce the conversation to you get a check. You get a check. Who gets a check? When it's when one of the points you me on Malvo made, I'm going to play it in a second.

Is that no, you must look at this thing from a system standpoint. And even when this guy Coleman says nothing has been studied more. No, no, no. There are there are people who are utterly clueless about the real story. It's how it has been framed. That, to me, is the fundamental issue. But that's the whole debate, though. That's what it all comes down to because the red herrings get you off the main view, the main issue. You know, I call it the tree of slavery.

You started the base 400 years ago. You had slave for 200 years or however long, right? But the manifestations of it, the branches of slavery that lead us to 2019, the manifestations are still there. And so if you say that my ancestors are no longer here, you say that white ancestors of others are no longer here, so why should they pay? Well, why not? It still occurred and the manifestations are still negatively affecting us. The Germans apologized to the Jews and paid reparations. America apologized to the Japanese who were put in internment camps and apologized. And yet for 200 years, or 400 400 years we were in slavery and nobody wants to apologize to us it seems like we're the largest minority and so we got

the greatest chance to overcome it but we still struggle with our history of slavery the thing for me Monique again when you hear this dude talk about okay history whatever is not actually understanding the link when we did the story two weeks ago three African Americansan americans lost 3.2 billion in chicago alone because of um discrimination housing discrimination anyone who saw uh skip gates documentary on reconstruction black folks lost a billion and a half dollars that was put into the Freedmen's Bank, stolen and squandered by white folks. There was never a bailout. A billion five, the equivalent of a billion five lost. And so those are things that folks in this country walking around on Capitol Hill have no idea about because that's the history, not his story.

Right. But that wouldn't even matter, Roland, because and I'm going to get through this on June 19th without crying. OK, but I'm from Galveston, Texas. And so it means something to me, right? Because I've been the places where it was announced in my great grandfather was a slave when Gordon Granger showed up and said, today, you're free two years after, right? The freedom actually happened. So today means something to me. But, but what it really means is there was a transfer of property that should have happened. And there was a transfer of economy that should have happened right then because if so then we could have afforded to lose a billion dollars a hundred two hundred years later and it wouldn't have matter because wealth transfer starts originating in property that's that's what this country is about well i'm talking about well i'm not talking about being rich i'm not talking about money bags that's right i'm talking about wealth transfer where

when you die there's something that goes to your children whether you had a dime in the bank or not they automatically have a leg up and the history that that brother was talking about, yeah, we studied it and we know it, but we don't apply it. Because right now in Galveston, Texas, I'm rich and I'm wealthy. Why? Because my grandfather, who graduated from Meharry, chose to be a postman instead of being a pharmacist so that he could own property. My grandmother worked in the home, but she was a nurse's assistant. My mother, who's still alive, was a teacher. My daddy worked at a manufacturing company instead of going to play basketball because they understood what it was about. So today, I'm sitting here and I have real wealth. I can't find no money. God

knows I can't for these two, but see, but I don't need nothing. Right. And there's a difference. There's a difference. So I agree with that gentleman. I don't know his name, the one they found. Nobody else. No, whatever. So, but he was right. It's studied roland he's right it's been more studied than anything else but he's wrong in that i think what he was saying is because it's studied we applied the lesson well i dare say that's the problem i guess it has been fully studied before i go to sure michael this this was after a series of questions from one of the democrat members of congress uh and it was a brother who was a preacher. He basically pulled Dr. Julian Malveaux into the conversation.

So I want you all to hear this exchange. You'd have to go really quickly. I had one question for Mr. Coates, so if you wanted to add something real quick. I'm running out of time. No, I'm the economist on the panel, so it's a little bit— No, I know that. It's a little frustrating that economic questions are being directed to non-economists. Well, I think I have some things that I'd like to be able to say about some of this.

But thank you, my brother, for giving me, for passing the mic. I really do appreciate it. The questions about predatory lending that your sister congresswoman raised really need to be dealt with because it's not just that it's something that's happening. If you're going to talk about predatory lending, could you also add, because what I was going to ask you, you could probably answer also, this whole history of the exclusion of blacks from some of the early programs like Social Security and the GI Bill and others. Because it all is about economic security. So if you could blend your answer, that would be great because then I would use up my time and get both questions in. Sure. I mean, we can go back and look at the minimum wage, which exclude farm workers in the South, which were predominantly black people, excluded domestic workers who were black women. And so these folks were excluded not only from the minimum wage, but also from the social security

system. So your comment about black women in nursing homes is very pointed, given all of that. I mean, we have to look at this. The hearts and minds questions, I'm an economist, so I leave that to the reverend. But my thing is, let's look at the economic underpinnings of the inequality that exists in this country, the wealth gap that exists in this country, and the differences that it makes. Sister Congresswoman, when you talked about predatory lending, a third of the people who had predatory loans qualified for regular loans, a third of them.

However, they did not get them because of the way that slavery, racism basically segregated people. So while it's lovely to sing Kumbaya, which I don't do very often, I think it's even better to talk about what's going on economically and the differences that exist because of the wealth gap. When a black woman, man, is arrested, absent wealth, they lay up in the jail for I don't know how many days because they don't have the home to mortgage to get the bail on and cash bail is discriminatory and so we could just go down the list and talk about the way the very many ways that racism affects the quality of folks lives and

with all due respect to these kumari our brothers over here who you know I'm I'm proud of my family, too. I mean, we good black people, too. I have a PhD, had two MBAs in my family. I'm not going to give you my family history. But, you know, it is irrelevant. It is irrelevant when you're dealing with structure. I want y'all, Congress people, to deal with issues of economic structure, and economic structure has generated an inequality that makes it difficult for people to live their lives. When zip code determines what kind of school that you go to, when zip code determines what kind of food you can eat, these are the vestiges of enslavement that a lot of people don't want to deal with. Forgive my, you know, I'm kind of over the top, but I usually am. Those in the audience who know me know, you know, tick, tick, boom.

But the fact is that I'm gratified, Sheila, Congresswoman Jackson Lee, for these hearings, but I'm also frustrated for the tone that some of this has taken because it takes us away from the economic underpinnings of what needs to go on here. Thank you. Sure, Michael. The issue that one, it's the discussion is critically important. And as far as I'm concerned, who the Republicans put up was a waste of time. There are conservative black economists. There are black conservatives who could talk about this issue, even if they oppose it.

You put up a dude who's on Fox News, a contributor who played football. I can't listen to him. I mean, look. Who brings, and literally his entire presentation was, you know, work hard. Like my grandfather told me, my daddy told me, that's how you get ahead. It was like, that's it? Well, what's interesting about this, so for our Vox Media show, we actually have an episode next week coming out on reparations. And we centered it on Georgetown University, which is the first U.S. institution that has attempted to sort of address repaying the descendants of slaves.

So it's academic. It's still the very first, correct, in April. And that was a student decided the university hasn't made a decision yet. But in the research of doing this, we spoke with a Duke University economist. And what the economist was saying was, based upon his calculations, there's about 30 million individuals that he estimated would be able to receive some form of a reparation, whatever that would look like. But going through the history, we discovered President Obama didn't support reparations. And I'm going somewhere here.

Joe Biden just announced he doesn't support reparation. And so as we continue to look through this, what we found was not only are there white Republicans who don't necessarily support this, there's also a lot of white Democrats in Congress who don't support this. There's also a lot of white Democrats in Congress who don't support this. So looking at it legislatively speaking, we sort of came to the conclusion that even trying to set up a committee to explore this would almost nearly be impossible. But here's on that point. And so look, somebody asked me in Longarone, do you support reparations? I'm like, no. Here's why I said it. Because I'm looking at the reality of legislatively. And my whole deal is this is where they are unless you change who's there. That's the key. At the end of the day, I can make the economic and moral argument.

OK, why it makes sense. I can go through the history. I can lay out all the facts. It still gets to the question of will it pass we're not even at the point as far as i'm concerned of having a count to vote because discussion the problem here mark is that we have folks who actually with all the books and all the studies being done don't want to contend with dealing with this very system and how it was actually create capitalism was created by slaves okay america had no economy read gerald horn's book on the american revolution uh read all these books to understand uh cotton understand these things the reality is you have this system and it wasn't just for 243

years of slavery. It was the 92 years of Jim Crow. Slavery by another name. And so when you start breaking all these things down, people in this country who don't want to even own up to the reality that white soldiers walked out of World War II with the GI Bill,

bought homes in the suburbs, all kind of stuff like that, where black soldiers literally could not. That ain't slavery. That's 40s, 50s, 60s. Fair Housing Act wasn't passed until 68. So if the Fair Housing Act was passed in April 68,

and you know it takes really five to 10 years for law to jail, if you will. We're now in the 80s. Well, that's why this is a new and updated H.R. 40. It's H.R. 42.0, really, because the original Conyers bill was going to do a study of slavery. This is a study of everyone stipulates slavery existed. But this is a study of what form reparations would take not only for slavery, but for slavery's vestiges, which includes lynchings, Jim Crow, segregation, lack of access to capital, being left out of Social Security, Homestead Act, G.I. Bill, Fair Housing Act, Voting Rights Act, and the current criminal justice system, which includes modern day lynchings of police violence and mass incarceration. All of that is included in this.

And what the two Republican Uncle Toms were not willing to say. No need to call him Uncle Toms. I don't believe in name calling. Just say we disagree with it. That's just my thing. I don't believe in Uncle Toms, sellouts, coons, N-word. I can say they're black conservatives who are wrong. But I didn't call them coons.

I know that. Go ahead. Hold on, Monique. Finish your point. Finish your point, Monique. Okay, so the point is what they refuse to acknowledge is that there are vestiges of slavery that still exist. Every form of racism and oppression that we continue to deal with is a vestige of slavery. He mentioned the tree.

The term we've always used is vestige. That's the same thing. And so that's what this bill would address and what form reparations would take for all of this inclusive. Right. And everything that he named is accurate. But everything that he named was related to a physical manifestation of slavery and when dr. Anita Phillips was on here what she talked about is the way that slavery has embedded itself into our DNA code as people of color and

how we have suffered psychologically how we have suffered mentally how we have suffered socially as black people because of things that happened during slaving that now are a part of our psyche. It makes it less possible for us to succeed, even if we had certain things that were a grant and a given to people who were not black. So for me, if somebody asked me if I support reparations, I don't know how I say I don't. We have found our way to the moon, right? In this country, we have a way to the moon. What do you mean by that? Gone to the moon. Trapped in the moon. We're smart. Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Go right ahead.

We can't figure out how much you get. I mean, it's not you get a car, you get a car, you get a car. I get it. My point is, no. But here's the thing. It's one thing to say we don't have a legislator to get it done. It's another thing to say we don't have a right president. We didn't have a black one. What do we need, a horse? It's one thing to say. Come on now that it's a hard thing. We in this country do hard things. It wouldn't matter if we got it wrong, Mr. Michael. It wouldn't.

Because if we got it wrong and he received something and you did and I did, now I don't know about your ancestors, I'm just saying, and you got something. Now listen, listen. Okay. Just because I'm light-skinned, did I get less? I'm saying a little And you got something. Listen. Okay. Did I get less? You and I both. We're not.

That's racist. That's racist. My point is, hell, give me $1,000 and let's move forward and figure it out again. No, no, no. Because the argument, roland that people are trying to make is that we shouldn't get anything oh no i understand that that is garbage it's got

what what what it's got michael what what bothers me again is when and again i look game recognize if you want to have this conversation and it stops at 1863. But I can't ignore what took place with the Great Compromise of 1876. Right. And it became the Great Compromise, actually the election of 1876 and the Great Compromise of 1877. I can't ignore where literally black folks, and Julianne talked about it, I didn't play it the black folks she talked who will run out of town black people who literally that's right left land they owned that's

right black people who was so oppressed by racism and bigotry yeah packed their stuff up and left mississippi and alabama and texas and ark left land. I can't forget. And went north. If they didn't, they went north. I can't forget the black folks who also had the land stolen by racists. The history, see where the study comes up, where I think Homeboy's wrong, is that if you actually study black folks since 1860 since after 1619 what you will see is bootstraps pull down yeah pull bootstraps up right pull back down i can show you a line from 1619 to present day where black folks pull bootstraps up right pull back down and the last big pull down

was in 2007 2008 with the home foreclosure crisis when 53 percent of black wealth was wiped out because of that that was black folks bootstrapping up that's actually been our history when we have done that got pulled back down that's a good point calculate all the bootstraps coming down up and down monetize it right that's a number or a series of numbers if you will the other thing i want you to listen to us to understand is i heard mitch mcconnell and others talk about i don't know whether we could do this constitutionally or not are you kidding me this is an allocation well hell yeah budget just gave 28 billion 28 billion to farmers who got screwed by the tears and hell that wasn't even about it so don't be don't don't go for the okay it's a budget item it is a budget michael again

that that for me is is why why why i disagree with homeboy when he said we've studied it because i don't know we haven't really owned up to it I'm gonna tell you this story before I want you to speak I spoke at a black construction conference it was at National Harbor a few years ago so I meet this sister and her job is to ensure that you don't have front construction groups in North Carolina. So she tells me she meets this, it's the largest construction company in North Carolina. She says, how did y'all get started?

And the guy says, well, our daddy was in the Army. And when World War II ended, our daddy said that, you know what, I want to start my own construction company. So he went to the boss who was white. Hey, we got this surplus paving equipment and stuff. Can I just have some of it? Yep. And they said, yeah.

Whatever. Homeboy leaves the army with a government handout. Yep. Starts a construction company, builds it up, and to this day, his sons and their sons and daughters, now the

beneficiaries of a government handout. You can't show me a black soldier who left with a shovel. But his business was started with army surplus equipment and making millions of dollars. So not only did he have free equipment, he could apply for the contracts.

So even if a black soldier was given free equipment, they couldn't even apply for the contracts. So when I hear McConnell and others talk about, oh, it was so long ago. No, I can show you black people who are living today. The vestiges. Who could not even bid for a contract if they had equipment, could apply for the jobs, couldn't buy a home in a certain place.

So as a result, black person over here bought a house in the neighborhood. House may have been $12,000. The white person's house was $35,000. They couldn't even sell a house for 12,000 when they tried to sell it. They sold it for like $12,100. So they made $100 on the house. Yet a person over here resold a house for $40,000.

They got $5,000 from it. Guess what? That ain't slavery. That's still the American story. That, to me, is why you have to have a real conversation that brings us up to present day of how black folks have been economically denied in this nation. Well, what's interesting about this is not only was the nation's wealth built off of free slave labor. You talk about many American businesses, Wells Fargo, for example, Brooks Brothers, for example. You talk about all the insurance companies. You talk about the Ivy League universities, the Georgetown's, the Harvard's, the Yale's,

all essentially off of the selling of slaves in order to stay open. Correct. So I think this is a very nuanced situation that I don't think a lot of politicians, just to be honest, and Frank aren't really interested in learning more about, which is why I do agree that we need to have some type of a committee to explore this further, because I think there's this sort of mis, I guess, understanding that, oh, it's just going to be free checks, free checks. We don't want to do that. Well, this is a far more complex issue that we need to address. And I don't know any black person who's saying I want anything free. I think what people are saying is we want to make sure that we have the address. And I don't know any black person who's saying I want anything free. I think what people are saying is

we want to make sure that we have the same playing field as everyone else. And that currently does not exist because of systemic racism that can be traced back to slavery. Which is the same. What? But we don't need another study.

It's a waste of time. The McConnells of the world, and I respect Schumacher's position on this, but sure, they'll say they don't get but sure they'll say they don't get it they'll say don't get it and we'll be three more administration's past getting it with a study about how we can figure out just how much we are really owed no so how do you start I'm gonna put a metric on it and tell me your metric on everything that Roland just said. And this is why. Maybe you can't. You go back to what we all agree on.

Slavery bad, right? Yeah. Is anybody disagreeing? Okay, no. Well, some folks. Well, hello. Some say we were glad to be there. You know what?

And even still, because, Scott, you and I, as lawyers, we know that if you keep people against their will and you force them to do labor for however much time, there is a very easy system, a calculus for what they are owed for that. And then we from there figure out, oh, OK, you kept them from that. And then when they were free, they didn't get property. Oh, okay. And they didn't get property. And when they got money, they couldn't get a bank loan. No, no, no. We have to start.

Scott, go, go. We have to start. Scott, go, go, go. Right. Well, would you take 40 acres and a mule, which is another broken promise America made to people of color, or black people rather? Here's what I am saying. Would you take it today? Hell yes.

Give me my 40 acres right now. I'm not saying I'm finished because I still, we have a constitution, right? So I can still sue. I can still ask for more. I can still re-legislate. I can still elect people like you. Give me my 40 acres and then let's talk. Give me my one mule for my land and then let's have a conversation

because what I can do with 40 acres right now, 40 acres where? New York? 40 acres in New York City. You're going off today. It's Juneteenth. Not to be stuck in politics or the legislative process, but that's what I love. And I'm just trying to figure out, even if we are able to assign some type of a numerical value to this how do you get it through congress even if we ignore the mcconnells let's say we don't set up a committee let's say it's a trillion dollars we all agree to it how do you get it here here here here's and to that point and that's why when somebody asked me this about 10 years ago, I was like, look, if you want to spend, somebody said, Roland, why don't you spend more time on reparations? I was like, I said, I'm looking at votes.

I said, I'm practical. I count votes. I said, that's where I stand. I said, the people who support it, I said, who are fighting for it. I said, you know what? I'll put them on the air. I said, and I haven't told the story. I said, but I look at finite time.

The reality is this. Why the study why the breakdown everything that you said why does it all matter because like anything else that has passed in this country you have to create resonance you have to create momentum to where you where you frame that look how many people literally said ain't no way in hell we're going to be able to get the right to vote. After Kennedy gets killed, look, everybody forgets the original civil rights bill that Dr. King and others supported had all of it in one. LBJ was like, I can't get all of it in one. The original civil, the first one that was a 1960 Civil Rights Act.

After Kennedy dies, LBJ goes, okay, I can't get all that in one. It was broken up into three pieces. 64, Civil Rights Act, which was public accommodations. 65 was voting. 68 was housing.

He said, I'm going to get it, but I can't get all of it at once. You have to create that, which is where voting comes in. So when I hear people say, unless this happens, I ain't voting, if you don't vote, it's not going to happen. No. Because here's the deal. You have to elect a Congress that is going to be amenable to your argument.

To your argument. But healthcare is a much more timely and relevant example to me. So we need That took 50 years. No, no, no. But okay. Actually, I'm sorry. Actually,

150 years. But we're here. So we're here. No, but I'm saying how long it took for everybody who asked. And I'm and I support no candidate. But what I will say is right now, every front runner. But Biden says yes to reparations. So we need a reparations Democratic candidate because Trump is a nonstarter. So we need a Democratic candidate and then we need a Democratic House because that's how we got health care, right? So, and we need whatever version of a bill we can get where something is passed. Actually, you have Democratic president, House, and Senate. That's how guys are. And 2020 is viable for that if we're about our business. I'm not certain, though. Final comment on this.

Even if realistically we were able to get a magic wand and grant what you're asking for. No magic wand, just votes. Or votes. I'm just not even convinced that if Democrats control the House or the Senate that you would have enough votes because you have to look at some of the districts that some of those members even represent. But I'm not convinced some of those white members vote for- But here's the deal, Mark.

Hold on, first of all- You just bailed out- Hold on, no, no, no, first of all, I agree with your point. But here's the piece. You don't need 435 or 100, Mark. Thank God. What you need is you need 218 in the House. Well, that's true.

We don't need it. That's all you need. That's all you need. Simple majority or six people in the Senate. And then what you actually, and I dare say you actually need more than that because assume it's going to be a veto even if it's a democratic president so the bottom line but but again to the people who are watching mark i'm going to speak to this this is the final comment okay if you got 60 people who sign on now right and the next session you got 90 you picked up 30 that's right the

problem i have is with folks who don't understand that look it's it's not it is not going to happen in a year but if you decide to not vote you have absolute guarantee that's right it will never happen you know there were some people there today that have been propagandized that way. But I was watching people today. And afterwards, I talked to some of those people. And they couldn't come up with an argument against anything that was said. Yeah. So just like all of our struggles, they've taken time.

We didn't know we'd be here today on this Juneteenth, 2019. And I'm very moved by the story you told, by the way, about your great-grandfather. We didn't know right now that we'd be having a hearing on reparations right now. We didn't know all this enthusiasm would come forward. We can't time it. But our generation has to continue to struggle. And sometime, if not in our lifetime, the next generation will see this to fruition. But you're absolutely right.

I think this can get done. It won't be tomorrow. And it is wrong to say to people if it's not resolved by 2020, they're not going to vote. It is an ongoing struggle. And on this Juneteenth, I'll simply close by saying in the words of Frederick Douglass, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. So we can't stop. And for the folks who

understand voting, you can talk about 15th Amendment all day. But then you had the 65 Voting Rights Act. And you're dealing with that. So that's our history. All right, folks. Also happening today on Capitol Hill, didn't get as much attention.

The Poor People's Campaign was talked before the House Budget Committee laying out their moral agenda on what they want House Democrats to do when it comes to confronting the issues of the poor. Reverend William Barber spoke before the House. The growing gap between the rich and the poor in this country is a direct result of policy decisions, not the immorality and the lack of personal work of poor people. Policy decisions made here in Washington and in our state capitals, but those decisions have been supported by well-funded myths. Corporate interests have sent their representatives here to preach personal responsibility and the danger

of government intervention, but the truth is we must take a collective responsibility for the inequality the unjust laws and systems created. God did not make us poor. Greed and abuse and power make us poor. In this hearing room, you are seated here as members of Congress on the left and on the right demanding on party affiliation. Our campaign agenda is neither left nor right. It aims to challenge both sides of the aisle. It aims to reach toward the moral high ground. The agenda is rooted in the religious values of the prophet of Isaiah that every legislator ought to hear again since you put your hands on the Bible to swear yourselves into office. Woe unto those who legislate evil and rob the poor

of their rights and make women and children their prey. You should hear what Jesus said not to churches and personal charity, but to nations. When I was hungry, did you feed me? When I was a stranger, an immigrant, did you receive me? When I was sick, did you care for me? Because every nation will be judged by God for how it treats the least of these. Our religious values call us and our constitutional values, which call us to the issue of justice, establishing justice, to put the marginalized and the poor at the

center of our public policy. We began three years ago. We've been all over this country, from Kansas to Arizona to eastern Kentucky to eastern North Carolina. We've met with Republicans and Democrats and blacks and whites and gay and straight, and all of them are saying the 140 million, we first must get the numbers right, it's 140 million poor and low-wealth people in this country. There are 140 million, 39 million children, 21 million seniors, 65.8 million men, 74 million women, 26 million black people, 38 million Latinx people, 8 million Asian people, 2.4 native indigenous people, and 66 million white people. And they are not poor because they are lazy or because they don't engage in personal responsibility. They are poor because of the systemic realities that connect systemic racism, systemic poverty, ecological devastation, the war economy, and the false moral narratives that suggest that somehow you can ignore poverty.

Ignore poverty. We must count 43.5% of our nation. No nation can survive when 43.5% of its people are poor and low wealth, and that's not at the center of our public discussions. 62 million people who work every day for less than a living wage. 37 billion people without healthcare, even with the Affordable Care Act. And I'm from the South, where 50, where one third of all the poor people live, and it's almost even black and white.

50 some million poor people and low-income people, and 13 million people uninsured. Poverty is a moral crisis. The federal government, state governments, we do not need more tax cuts for the rich. We do not need more missiles. We need to hear and see the voices and faces of the poverty. We must end this systemic policy violence against poor and low-wealth people. This is the moral mandate for our nation at this moment. The work of reconstructing America is not done, and we must do it together,

and nothing less than the promise of our democracy is at stake. To not deal with poverty is constitutionally inconsistent, it is economically insane. And it is morally, morally, morally wrong. Sure, Michael, we mentioned earlier, we talked about the $28 billion that was granted to farmers. The farmers, yeah. The tariff force. Yeah.

Yet if a president said, you know what, the people who are hurting right now who are poor, let's grant $28 billion. Folks will be up in arms. Fiscal conservatives will be yelling and screaming. It's amazing how we are so quick to fund things in this country. But then if you talk about $2 or $3 or $4 billion for the poor folks, they lose their minds. Well, I mean, politicians, their number one concern is self-preservation. And so the reason those farmers was able to get that bill out is because Donald Trump recognizes he depends on their votes

in order to be reelected. Republicans in the Senate realize that they depend upon those voters to maintain their majority in the Senate. Look, I think there's something Reverend Barber said was very interesting. It does become very difficult for a country to have an ever-growing, increasing majority of the population being in poverty. China's actually attempting to address this themselves because they have done some studies to realize that this is going to be problematic as we continue to try to become a superpower. So at some point with the world becoming more globalized, we're going away from cheaper labor because of technology and automation. You're going to have even more people

falling into that category of being impoverished. We're a capitalistic country. No, we are. We are. You have hands and hands. No, you do. Hold on, hold on. Finish. I agree with that. But in understanding that, you also want to make sure that you're training and providing your people with the proper skill set so that they can survive in this ever-changing ecosystem. And if you're not doing that, then you're only going to continue to increase the number of people that live in poverty. Scott? Yeah, but what about the social welfare system that we do have? I mean, there are no pure capitalistic societies, because if we were purely capitalistic, then you'd have a running poor population, a wealthy. And that's why we talk a lot about the middle class.

Russia is not pure socialism. It's a combination of both. And so are several other countries. And so I think the danger that Reverend Barber is touching on that people are going to have to recognize is that, sure, you can have a capitalistic society. That's why they won't give poor people money, because pull yourself up by the bootstraps, do X, Y, and Z, and either you make a lot of money or you don't. It's inherent in the system that you have some poor people and working poor people. And so the problem is, if you get more poor people or growing poor people population, then the haves and the have-nots, there'll be a lot of have-nots eventually, you know.

They overthrow the government, if you will, or jack up the system. No, no, no. Actually, you said, but the problem, Monique, you said the problem. No, what he's actually doing is actually saying to the poor people, it's more y'all, and let's overthrow this thing.

What he is saying is that the reality is it is a widening gap in the last 20 years where the rich have gotten richer and richer and richer and they don't give a damn about those who are below them. What he is saying is

let's activate these poor folks to become, take your numbers and then go to the polls and vote your interest. That's what he's doing. And then what? Hold on.

And then what? Hold on. And while what? Hold on. And while you weren't here last week, Scott told me with a straight face that he's a liberal. My point is this. And what's wrong with that? People who are working and are successful can't be liberal? Everybody who is watching this show heard.

Don't label me. I don't have to label you. You labeled you. I do. I label myself. My point. Oh. Oh.

Yeah. You went there. Listen, the only difficulty that I have, and it's not even a difficulty, it's a question mark where the moral majority is concerned. There are more white people who are poor in this country than black people. There are more white people who are poor in this country than black people. There are more white people, period, but there are more white people who are poor than people of color.

So when we talk about galvanizing, there has to be a way that they understand, hey, that reparations argument that y'all are fighting for is the same argument the farmers are fighting for, is the same argument that the steel workers, because it ain't going to be no more, are fighting for is the same argument that the people in West Virginia are fighting for for the coal mines. It's the same argument because it is an anti-poverty argument in one of, if not still the wealthiest

nation in the world. And Scott, I'm fine with you. I'm fine. You're OK. So we're capitalists, et cetera, so on. But I'm saying it comes down to a point of are we right or are we wrong? Does it matter that people send children to school every day? And even in a county like Montgomery County, where I live, the only reason some children are eating during this summer is because Montgomery County found money in its budget. Thank God for Isaiah Leggett. Leggett, on his way out, he said, we're going to do these food trucks. He created a line item, hello everybody, so that children could eat every day this summer. They're doing the same thing in PG County. Now, how can it be in a county where

70% of the people own homes, their children still can't eat if it wasn't for food trucks that were lining up outside of summer school, whether you need summer school or not. That's how kids are getting breakfast when their parents go to work. Why don't you ask the elected officials who allocate public funds? Listen, I'm not asking them. They don't you ask the elected officials who allocate public funds? Listen, I'm not asking them. They don't make it a priority. No, I'm not asking where there's an answer. What I said is Isaiah Leggett created a line item, so he is a responsible public official.

Some of this stuff, all y'all conservatives, are y'all on here right now? Here's what the conservatives want. They want states' rights. They want low federal government intervention. So if you're still a conservative out there, Trumplicans, Republicans, whoever you are, these are state and county officials who found a way to make sure our children are not hungry. It's not about bootstraps right now. I agree, but the problem with white America is they believe the Republican myth.

Those poor white Americans ought to be standing right there. Scott, this is not our problem. We're actually black, allegedly, and you're right here on this show. And you just said to me, you just you just said we delight people we delight people on here tonight we gotta go together now what i'm saying is you just said capitalism and i'm and i'm fine with it lord knows i want you live in a capitalist system too and and you want to make money so what is your argument okay oh lord i'm about point? Oh, Lord, I'm about to invoke Elizabeth Warren. Okay, what is your point? My point is there are candidates who are in. Greed is good.

Money is good. And if I take a penny. You can't be a socialist without being a capitalist first. If I take a penny on every one of your $500 million, I can feed everybody in Texas. Okay, so if you had $50 million right now, would you invest it in yourself and your family? I wouldn't give you a dime. How many poor people would you support? I wouldn't give you a dime. How many poor people out there would you support? As many as I could.

As many as I could. You're on your soapbox and fighting and arguing about capitalism and the lack of equity. God, help me. I want people to be okay. How much would you give? So if you're $50 million, how much would you give, would you? So if you're 50 million, how much would you give to poor strangers? Here's why it matters for Dr. Julian. How much of your 50 million would you give to poor people? I think that people like Dr. Julian. If money's good and greed is good. I think that people like Dr. Julian, who's an economist, could answer it. I think we elect officials to figure it out.

What are you going to do with your 50 million? If you had 50 million, would you give 49 plus million to poor people most that you believe in this most people would not but you got to think about that though because the answer the question of the world the winfrey's of the world the perry's of the world they even god help him the bezos's of the world and i pray he get through this divorce they've all managed to give, right? So I'm saying at least 10% of it. So if you have $50 million, you get 5 million of poor people. I said at least my 10% would go to the church, and then I had a hand.

So what's your solution then to the growing number of people in poverty? The solution to the growing number of people in poverty is reparations. It's free education. It's free health care because that's where we lose the majority of our money. You already have free education. You mean at the higher college? No, Ashley, we don't have free education. We don't have free education.

No, no. Hold on. Hold on. That's how they get free. Mike called it free, but it ain't a high-quality education. It's not education. Mark, Mark, the thing is... Because if you go through an education system and not be able to read, then you have been failed. Mark, hold on, hold on, one second, one second.

Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark. But you want to fight for the poor people. Mark, what you see... Got it. What Barbara is doing, actually, to address Scott's point, they have gone to Idaho and Kansas and the hills of North Carolina. They are going in front of broke-ass white folks and saying, guess what? Your ass broke. Yeah, right.

And there's more of you broke. Go ahead. But so, and Scott and I had this conversation when we were waiting to come on. What Reverend Barbara is doing, by picking up what Dr. King left off, is extremely revolutionary. It's actually what got Dr. King killed. He became an even greater threat when he wasn't just organizing black folk in the South. When he was going around the country organizing poor white folk

with the Poor People's Campaign, he made the case, and I remind everyone, the most powerful and important and informative and impactful speech he gave was on the steps of the Montgomery State Capitol after the March of Assembly of Montgomery, where he talked about the division between poor whites and poor African-Americans and how this country decided to make it that way so we wouldn't come together in unity. And he talked about Jim Crow being the psychological bird that feeds the bloated bellies of starving white folks and lets them know that I may be poor and broke, but at least I'm better off than a black man. So what Dr. Bob is doing is challenging that and showing that we can all get together and control this. You made a good point, Shermichael.

So you pay off farmers, because for whatever reason, which is crazy, they always vote against the interest. They're predisposed. We want to stay with Trump. We want a reason to stay with you. Anybody else will say, dude, you're jamming us. My farm is going under because of you. And many are. And you're a terrorist.

Right. So you pay them off. But see, these white folks with Barbara, they ain't about that. They're open-minded. They're looking. They're thinking. They're analyzing. And I think that, you know, what Reverend Barber is able to do,

see, this can still be tied to reparations. See, when they say to us, we talked about this in the conference room, when they say to us, y'all got welfare and food stamps and affirmative action. As if white folks don't. Hold on, wait a minute. Let me finish up. As if the majority of those things don't go to white folks but here's the other contradiction it always odd to me how you can say we on welfare and food stamps and all benefiting from affirmative

action those two don't go down if i'm benefiting from that i don't need that right but but they say to white folks oh we've given you all we're gonna give you too you got the gi bill you got all that stuff so they say the same thing to, but because of the perception, the face of poverty and the face of crime is black. We have Ronald Reagan to thank for that. He did black welfare. That is, yeah. And so that's the image. And so some white folks, as you said, don't even know that they're poor and broke.

And Reverend Bob is waking them up, and they're loving him for it. Go ahead, Mr. Michael. I think this is unsustainable, to be honest. And if you look at every, the poverty, the growing levels of poverty in the country, I mean, you look at every single economist, and this is even conservative economists will admit this. The reality is the United States is really almost at the point where we're no longer going to be the nation's superpower, the world's superpower. That's the reality. And I think if you study history, remember the French Revolution, it was poor people who revolted because the numbers grew so much.

They said, we have enough of this. Even though there were divisions, religious divisions, there were some ethnic divisions, they finally came together. And I really think Reverend Barber is on to something that history has already revealed to us before that we're not paying attention to. People are really starting to get sick and tired of the divisions between wealthy people and the poor. Even Elizabeth Warren has gone to West Virginia, places that Trump did well, and she's talking to these people and they're saying, well, wait a minute, this lady has a point here. We are all poor.

We haven't benefited from any of this. That's a recipe for disaster if we don't do something about it. And folks, I want to read this so that you can understand why this moral movement matters. When Dr. King gave the speech after the Selma to Montgomery march, this is what he said on the steps of the Capitol.

He said, toward the end of the Reconstruction era, something very significant happened. That is what was known as the populist movement. The leaders of this movement began awakening the poor white masses and the former Negro slaves to the fact that they were being fleeced by the emerging bourbon interest. Not only that, but they began uniting the Negro and white masses into a voting bloc that threatened to drive the bourbon interest from the command post of political power in the South. To meet this threat, the Southern aristocracy began immediately to engineer this development of a segregated society. I want you to follow me through here

because this is very important to see the roots of racism and the denial of the right to vote. I need y'all to listen to this part. Through their control of mass media, they revised the doctrine of white supremacy. They saturated the thinking of the poor white masses with it, thus clouding their minds to the real issue involved

in the populist movement. They then directed the placement on the books of the South of laws that made it a crime for Negroes and whites to come together as equals at any level. And that did it. That crippled and eventually destroyed the populist movement of the 19th century. He went on to lay out again how they utilized mass media,

how they used mass media to drive home this whole idea of white supremacy and keeping folks away. Now, let me unpack that. That's why when you watch mainstream media, you've got to be very clear in terms of what you're watching than what you're hearing. Why am I so critical of a lot of black websites out there? Because they ain't doing no original damn reporting. What they're doing is they're aggregating content well they literally are rewriting stories done by white reporters putting their name on the top and never making a phone call so you are

reading a whole bunch of these black websites thinking you reading the black perspective when you read really reading the white perspective just somehow rewritten by somebody who was black i if i really want to go there y'all would be shocked to how know how many of these so-called black websites out there actually have white bosses uh-oh you're generous now now allow me again to further break this, you need to understand power and how power wants to freeze out other folks from opportunities. Which leads me to my criticism of the South Carolina Democratic Party. Beginning tomorrow, they're going to have their state convention. The leaders of the South Carolina Democratic Party have made a decision

that is beyond shameful. Democrats have talked about Donald Trump being anti-free press. They've talked about how he has condemned the media. Yet the South Carolina Democratic Party cut a deal where they are only allowing MSNBC to broadcast live from their convention. Now, let me explain this. C-SPAN, okay, totally nonpartisan. Fox News, CNN, all are frozen out of broadcasting anything in the building live, not just on the podium, but also in the back of the room. Now, here's the deal.

I ain't criticizing MSNBC because according to various reports, it's a free deal. South Carolina Democrats are saying, well, we're going to guarantee all of our candidates get FaceTime. So they'll speak on stage. They'll carry it. And then they say they'll go to the back of the room. They're going to get interviewed by Reverend Alice Sharpton and Joanne Reed. Okay, that's fine. But here's the problem.

Why? Well, I got a problem. You are watching a black owned show. You are watching a show that is about black people. Give me a wide shot. You are seeing for black commentators you could turn on any cable channel right now and I yeah you might have to flip the forward to find a total of four black people but you ain't gonna

find four on at one time matter of fact hell you ain't gonna find a black host on right now because right now find a black ho song right now because. Period. Right. It's true. Just saying. Right now, one don't exist right now. Can't find one. Why is the decision by the South Carolina Democratic Party wrong?

Because this decision freezes out folk like me and this show. And then it's just a bad precedent. What y'all don't realize is the Supreme Court has already ruled that political parties are private. Even though historically they have been open conventions, they're private. The primaries are private. They can choose whatever their own rules. Fox and C-SPAN and CNN have lodged a complaint saying this is wrong. Y'all might be saying, well, what's the big deal?

Well, you plan to go anyway. Here's the deal. On Tuesday, we live stream from the hotel here of the Black Leadership Meeting when it comes to the United States Census. We live stream from Reverend Barber's events as well. We were in Miami live streaming from the American Black Film Festival.

What happens when powerful interests start saying nobody else can do any live stuff except if you are MSNBC or Fox News or CNN? This is why net neutrality was a major deal. The South Carolina Democratic Party should be ashamed of itself for locking out media. They should say any media outlet should be allowed to come in and to live stream from their state convention.

No media outlet, whether they are conservative or liberal or nonpartisan, should be frozen out. I'm telling y'all, as an African-American media owner, be very, very scared because what then happens when they say, oh, y'all not big enough. Y'all remember my commentary on the red carpet when all the stars, when the white publicists would shoo the black stars away from talking to all the little black media outlets? But see, the same stars, when the white folks weren't calling them. It was those black media outlets who were calling them. If y'all really want me to start doing a roll call, I can show y'all

direct messages and text messages of black politicians who wouldn't get no love from CNN, from MSNBC, from Fox News, and were saying, hey, can we please come on your show? Oh, I can run the whole thing down. What South Carolina's doing is wrong.

And I dare say every black politician who is a Democrat in South Carolina, from Congress to the statehouse to local, should be saying to the party what you're doing is wrong. Because by doing this, you're setting a precedent. And you could be very well freezing out the next operation, the next black owner, somebody who is trying to inform our people by saying it's only them. And see, I didn't say only national media. Y'all don't understand. No other media outlet can stream and do anything live.

In fact, is a a three-hour embargo. So that means if you're the black newspaper in South Carolina and you wanted to live stream an interview with one of the politicians, you can't do it. You can't do it in the building. You got to go out. They say, oh, y'all can report on anything outside the building. You cannot do anything in the building. This is wrong. It's a bad decision. They have time to reverse it. And the deal is, MSNBC ain't even paying for the exclusivity.

They gave it to them for free. That makes no sense. As a black media owner, this folks should not be allowed to stand because I'm telling y'all if they do this, somebody else is going to try it and somebody else is going to try it and somebody else is going to try it. And then what happens when we say, what about us? What happens when one of these networks is holding one of their debates and they say, Oh, I'm sorry sorry role model unfiltered

y'all can't stream from here because we control this whole deal what if they say one of these presidential forums no no y'all can't do anything from here because we control this whole deal this to me is wrong and it is unfair and black folks have to be very careful because they can undo a CNN or Fox News a C-SPAN but I'm telling y'all we created this platform to serve black interest we created this platform not only have this live show we also live stream events we've live stream rallies we've live stream speeches we've live stream conferences we are doing when no other black website is doing. In fact, what we're doing here, BET ain't doing. TV One's not doing. Aspire's not doing.

Revote's not doing. Own's not doing. Bounce is not doing. None of these black networks out here, none of them are doing what we're doing. Do not be silent. You should be telling the South Carolina Democratic Party, go to their Twitter handle, SCDP, and say, overturn this decision because this is not how a free press is supposed to operate.

They are a political party, and every member of the media should have access to the South Carolina Democratic Party. It is wrong, and I dare say to every one of you Democrats who is going to speak there, you should stand up and say, open the doors. Allow every member of the media in. And I'm talking to you, Vice President Biden,

and Senator Sanders, and Senator Harris, and Senator Warren, and Mayor Buttigieg, and Eric Swalwell, and all of your candidates, every single one, you should say to South Carolina, this is wrong. And Democrats do not believe in freezing anybody out. If you say nothing today, it might be you frozen out tomorrow. Folks, that's it for us today. I want to thank Mark, Monique, Scott, Mr. Michael for being on today's show.

Folks, be sure to support Roland Martin Unfiltered by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. If we don't fund our own freedom, nobody else will. I can guarantee you, Chris Matthews,

as well as Aaron Burnett and whoever the hell is over there on Fox News, I guarantee you they did not have the conversation we had today. First of all, the Ghana ambassador to the United States, they certainly weren't talking about did not have the conversation we had today. First of all, the Ghana ambassador to the United States, they certainly weren't talking about the reparation

discussion that we had or the Poor People's Campaign. And so, please, we want you to support us in what we do. Again, Cash App, PayPal, as well as Square, all of them are on the website. You can give every month. You can give one time. We want to have 1,000 new donors by the end of this month, and so we certainly

appreciate all that you have done. And I forgot, somebody gave us 50 bucks on YouTube. It's not pulling up. And so I appreciate that. And so we'll try to get the name there. And so I appreciate it. Thank you so very much. All right, folks, I got to go.

We'll see you tomorrow. We'll talk about two new black mayors this week, one in Dallas, one in Kansas City. How? Let's know. You know, I was told the same thing Monday. new black mayors this week. One in Dallas, one in Kansas City. Thank you. I'm Martin. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. Press play. Martin. You want to support Roland Martin Unfiltered? Be sure to join our Bring the Funk fan club.

Every dollar that you give to us supports our daily digital show. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered, support the Roland Martin Unfiltered Daily Digital Show by going to RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Our goal is to get 20,000 of our fans contributing 50 bucks each for the whole year. You can make this possible.

RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. You want to check out Roland Martin Unfiltered? YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's only one daily digital show out here that keeps it black and keep it real. It's Roland Martin Unfiltered. See that name right there? Roland Martin Unfiltered.

Like, share, and subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's YouTube.com forward slash Roland S. Martin. And don't forget to turn on your notifications so when we go live, you'll know it. Thank you. ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത� Thank you. this is an iHeart podcast