#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Kansas City Star's racism; Morris Brown re-accreditation; Blacks in Air Force face discrimination

Episode Date: December 23, 2020

12.22.20 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: All eyes on Georgia as Ossoff/Warnock campaigns ramp up; Kansas City Star's apologizes for racism; Bobby Scott will join us to talk about a new deal that will reinstate Pell grants for incarcerated students; Who should replace Besty DeVos ad Education Secretary? Morris Brown prez talks re-accreditation; Blacks in Air Force face discrimination; Jamar Mackey, the Virginia Beach man who was handcuffed at a mall while having a meal with his family is here to tell his story; We pay tribute to Sheriff Benny NapoleonSupport #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered #RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Black Voters Matter. They are battling, folks. Still, when it comes to making sure all of our votes counted, we will talk with co-founder Cliff Albright about Brunswick, Georgia. There was a hearing today. He'll give us the latest of those details. We'll also hear from John Ossoff, who voted early today, as well as talk to the President Morris Brown College,

where Ossoff was on campus supporting their efforts to regain their accreditation. We told you yesterday about the Kansas City Stars apology for their racist coverage over their history. Today, we'll talk with folks from Kansas City to get their perspective on that. Also, Virginia Congressman Bobby Scott joins us to talk about the deal that Congress passed that will reinstate Pell Grants for incarcerated students and the forgiveness of more than $1 billion in federal loans to HBCUs. So we'll be discussing that. Plus, Jamar Mackey, the Virginia Beach man who was handcuffed at a mall while having a meal with his family will join us to tell his story. All right, folks. Also on today's show, my conversation with Dr. Kevin James, as I said, president of Morris Brown College.

Plus, a new report that looks at racial disparities in the military shows that black service members in the Air Force are far more likely to be investigated, arrested, face actions, and be discharged for misconduct than other branches of the military. What's going on in the Air Force? Folks, it is time to bring the funk and roll the mark down the filter.

Let's go. And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling Best believe he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling It's on, go, go, go, yo It's rolling, Martin, yeah Rolling, what's rolling now? It's Rollin' Martin, yeah. Rollin' with Rollin' now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real, the best you know.

He's Rollin' Martin now. Martin! Anthony. All right, folks. Here in Atlanta, we're broadcasting, of course, still covering the Georgia runoff here in Atlanta. We've been all over the state. And the folks, Black Voters Matter, they've also been all around the state as well. And what they have been doing is battling not just to get black folks registered to get them to vote, but also how Republicans are trying to stymie black folks from voting.

They were in Brunswick, Georgia today in an emergency hearing. Joining us right now is Cliff Albright, the co-founder of Black Voters Matter. Cliff, always glad to have you on Roller Mart Unfiltered. Always glad to be here, Roland. Thanks. All right, Cliff, so tell our folks exactly what happened today in Brunswick, Georgia. Yeah, so we were in Brunswick, Georgia on actually a pre-scheduled stop to do one of our regular events of doing a food and toy donation when we found out last night that there was going to be an emergency hearing called because of these complaints that have been filed by this group called True the Vote, which is definitely a misnomer. This is a group, conservative and in many ways just outright racist group, that has gone around even in

previous election cycles trying to get voters purged from lists. What they're doing right now in Georgia is that they're saying they're going to file complaints in all 159 counties. But today in Glynn County, what was called was an emergency hearing because of what they had filed in Glynn County. For those who don't know, Glynn County is where Brunswick is, which is where Ahmaud Arbery was murdered and where the DA that tried to bury the case at first was recently voted out. And so that's why this county, like many others, is being targeted for this type of voter purge. So there was a court hearing today, which we attended. It was a three person, it's really a five person board of elections, but only three members were present. And the person from this organization, actually, it was a local representative,

a former state representative who represents that area, was the person that was actually presenting the complaint in court. Then they allowed for some public comments. I spoke on behalf of not only Black Voters Matter, but also a coalition of organizations that had sent a letter from that legal defense fund, as well as other organizational partners that we have from across the state. We sent a letter. And so I referenced the information in that letter. And I explained to them why it would be a violation of not just federal law, but state law for them to move forward and to consider this complaint. You're not allowed to have any kind of purging or cleansing of voter lists within 90

days of election, let alone within two weeks of a federal election. So that on the face of it made it an irrelevant and frivolous claim. And so I let them know that, as well as some other issues, some other local folks gave their public comments as well. And after very brief deliberations, the board decided to not find probable cause, which essentially meant that they would not be moving forward with this complaint from this group. Now, what folks also need to understand is that the judge also ruled the secretary of state should sit down with various civil rights groups, including Black Voter Matters, over the purging of folks from the voting rolls. I, of course, the Latasha Brown. And when we were, of course, in Savannah on Friday, she was at the state capitol. She posted some photos of that on her social media page. I'm going to show that in a moment. But, Cliff, what is the status of that?

Yeah, we still haven't heard back from the state on that. And so, you know, what we're hoping is that the court will find that they're just in contempt of court. The court gave an order, which basically said to work this out. We've done our due diligence trying to get them to respond by phone, by email, and as you referenced, even going down to the Capitol building to meet with the Secretary of State. They continue to respond, fail to respond. And so what we're hoping is that the court will ultimately just find them in contempt and decide to rule in our favor. And the remedy that we're seeking is that those voters, and again, this is a purge that goes back to 2019. This isn't a purge from this year, but the implications of

the consequences of that purge are still being felt today because we don't know how many of those 200,000 that were legally purged have not yet been re-registered. So the remedy we're seeking is that they automatically get re-registered. We don't want them to have to file anything, to call anybody, to, you know, jump through any hoops. They were purged illegally, and so we want them to automatically be put back on the roads. They know who they purged. They know who they need to put back on. And that's what we're demanding. If the secretary of state continues to hide and duck and dodge and try to avoid us, then we expect for the court to find them in contempt. And again, let me be real clear here. The courts ruled for y'all to sit down, and the Secretary of State has not even responded? He's ducking and dodging, Raul.

They have not responded to repeated attempts to work this out as ordered by the court. There's really nothing else to be done. We can't do anything more. We essentially almost had to sneak into the Capitol building just to serve them with the papers, to serve them with the notice that we were trying to work this out and to have a discussion around it. And so there's really nothing else that we can do other than to wait for the court to decide that the Secretary of State is being non-responsive and they just need to rule in our favor.

I mean, if one side is not going to present their information, is not going to follow the court order, you know, we don't need to be dragging this out. And we're really concerned that that's what's going on here, that the Secretary of State feels that if they could just drag this out, that at some point the courts will just have to decide, well, look, it's only two weeks left. There's nothing we can do.

And so we know that that's the strategy. That's why we were aggressive in trying to meet with them. They're failing to respond. We think that the court needs to act now. In fact, Cliff, I'm showing these are the photos that LaTosha posted from three days ago, where to your point about sneaking in, they were avoiding y'all and y'all had to track them down to serve them with these papers. They did not actually want to meet with Black Voters Matter. No, no. When they when they found that we were in there and had the papers to give them, it was like catching somebody with the hands in the cookie jar.

You know, they were pretty much like, oh, how you getting here? Well, you know, that's what we do. We find a way, you know, whatever it is that we have to do to protect our folks' right to vote, we're going to make that happen. And whether that's going to the Capitol to serve them with papers, or whether that's showing up today in Glynn County to demand that these voters not be purged, and that they follow the law, that you can't do this kind of list maintenance within 90 days. We're going to do whatever it takes to let them

know that we're not standing by it. And what's important is that, you know, especially in these rural counties, because the same thing they're trying to do in Glynn County, they're trying to do in counties all over the state, they're trying to do it. They already tried it in Cobb and it was shot down. They tried it in Muskogee and that board of elections actually found that there was some probable cause to at least look into it. Doesn't mean that they're purging folks, but still even looking into it has a chilling effect, right? It has the effect of intimidating voters with the thought that they might be asked, why did you change your address? Where are you going? What are you doing? Who are you voting for? Right. And so they try to do these things in these rural counties. And part of why we do what we do, why we roll through in these communities with the blackest bus in America is because we want our folks to know that they are not alone.

And there are several people from Brunswick in that courthouse today who said, you know what? I thought I was going to be here by myself. I was so glad to see y'all. That's the kind of impact that we want to have in communities. We don't want anybody in our communities who's trying to fight for truth. We who believe in freedom shall not rest. We don't want folks to feel like that they're alone in these battles. So it was really important to us that we were there today, that we were in the Capitol the other day serving those papers, and we will continue to be in every county, wherever there are Black voters facing these issues. That's where we're going to show up, along with some incredible state partners. You know, big thanks to LDF for drafting a letter that was sent to the Glynn County Board of Elections today.

And again, Cliff, that is the thing that made, so here we are in the middle of an election. We're sitting here trying to get folks out. And y'all are on the front lines just to make sure that Republicans in this state are not trying to intimidate black voters, trying to suppress black voters, because they clearly understand the power of the black vote. And this is how they want to win. They do not want to win on the issues. They frankly want to win by cheating. And it's hilarious that they keep yelling, you know, stop the steal. They keep yelling stop the steal, but that's what they're trying to do. Right, right.

The levels of hypocrisy are mind-blowing, right? And I mentioned that to them in my public comments to the Board of Elections today because what they were trying to argue is that they don't know who these voters are, right? They're just doing this. They're just trying to clean the roads. We don't know who's going to be impacted. We don't know what the race of the voters are. And what I told the board of elections is, look, we got to be honest here, right? We just got to deal with the reality. We know why they're doing this. They know who it is that would be purged by this. In the same breath that they were arguing that they know that these weren't military people because they didn't want to act

like they were trying to purge military. So they said, no, we researched it, and these aren't military. And, oh, we researched it, and these aren't students. So like I said to the Board of Elections, I said, you know what? They're telling us they know everything there is to know about these voters. They know whether they're military, whether they're students. They know their shoe size.

They know what their favorite food is to eat, but somehow they want us to believe that they don't know their rates. That doesn't make sense, right? That just flies in the face of everything that we know. We know why it is that they're doing this. We know that they're mad because Georgia flipped in November. We know that they're scared, as you said, that they're running scared because of the historic voter turnout that we've seen in the first week of early voting, plus the vote by mail. We know that they're scared because of the momentum. We know that they're mad because of what happened in Brunswick and Glynn County where they got rid of the DA. This is why they're using these tactics, and especially in a place like Brunswick and Glynn County. We need not be naive about what's

going on. In fact, one of the acts that I cited and that the LDF cited in the letter, this isn't just a violation of the recent of the Voting Rights Act or the Help America Vote Act. The intimidation that this represents goes to the 1871 Ku Klux Klan Act. And so I mentioned that in court in the hearing today. And I looked dead at the representative who was bringing this hearing when I referenced the KKK act, because that's all that's going on. It is the same kind of intimidation. They want our voters to have to answer questions about why they're voting a certain way or where they live or where they move to and all this stuff. That's intimidation. And we're not having it.

That's what we're trying to do today. That's what we're trying to do with the lawsuit that we have against the Secretary of State. All right, then. Cliff Albright, we certainly appreciate it. Look, keep us abreast. Whatever happens, y'all know y'all can come on here at any time to break this thing down, and we're going to keep pressing

and making it perfectly clear that we are watching and paying attention. Thank you so much, Roland. Be on the lookout. Valdosta is next up. We're fighting for that as well, too. And that's, in this case, thousands of voters that could potentially turn a purge in Valdosta, Georgia. All right, then.

All right, Cliff Albright, co-founder of Black Voters Matter. Thank you so very much. Thank you, then. All right. Cliff Albright, co-founder of Black Voters Matter. Thank you so very much. Thank you, Rowan. All right, folks. Last week, the first day of early voting, Raphael Warnock went to the polls and he voted with Ambassador Andrew Young. Well, today, John Ossoff actually decided to go vote. We were there and he actually had a little shout out for our folks who watched this show. So check this out.

Hello to the whole Roland Martin. As I said, John Ossoff met with a group of folks at the Metropolitan Library across the street at a park. We were actually there covering that. He spoke to them. And also, he was joined by folks with the Millennial Civil Rights Project. They were there standing with him as he went and voted early today. And y'all should be seeing some video there of John Ossoff in the voting booth casting his early vote. As I said last week, of course, Warnock voted.

More than 1.3 million folks have voted early already, in-person voting. But in addition to in-person voting, also folks who voted early by absentee ballot. They have drop boxes in various locations across the country in order for people to be able to drop off their ballots if they don't want to stand in line. Now, of course, Republicans do not like those drop boxes at all. They don't like those drop boxes at all. And so what they prefer is for folks to stand in line. It was not a long line. In fact, Ossoff, he voted rather quickly compared to last week when Raphael Warnock voted. There was a lot more folks in line that first day. But again, it was good to see the folks out there at Metropolitan Library here in Atlanta

where he went and voted to cast his ballot. And, of course, there are three races. There are three races. Folks are voting on his race against Senator David Perdue, Warnock against Kelly Loeffler, as well as an African-American who is running for the Public Utility Commission. That's an important position. He would be the first Democrat elected in 20 years to that particular position. And so

we're going to actually chat with him a little bit later this week. And so bring you Daniel Blackmon talking about his important race. So these three runoff races are on the ballot. All efforts are out there to get folks focused on that. Now, after Ossoff voted early, he then went to Morris Brown College. Remember, we had the president on here talking about them pursuing a reaccreditation. And there, Ossoff talked about the importance of Morris Brown and what he would do for HBCUs if he is elected United States Senator. Here is some of that discussion. I want to point out it's been eight months since the U.S. Senate passed any direct stimulus payments for the American people, and they've decided after eight months of obstruction, they're going to send $600.

Well, for folks who are unable to make the rent, can't make the car payment, can't afford the prescriptions, behind on the bills. $600 is a joke. And the truth of the matter is that they don't care about regular people. If the most powerful investment banks in the country's stock valuation started plummeting overnight, they would jet back to Washington in four hours and pass legislation. But when it's ordinary people, when it's corner mechanics, small businesses, they held it up for eight months and they cut it in half to $600. I would have voted for the bill, but it's a joke. $600.

So we need to reorient the mindset of our elected officials toward helping regular people. And that has to happen at the ballot box. And the polls are open right now. And let me be clear that President James and I were discussing this back in the spring. We were talking about what Georgia's United States Senate offices can do to help accelerate the process of reaccreditation under your leadership, Mr. President, that applications be accepted. They'll be here in January and it may be as soon as the springtime that Morris Brown will be eligible for those kinds of federal grants. So expanding the Pell Grant program should be non-controversial.

When I debated my opponent, I'm not going to get too partisan here at an educational event, but I'll just say this. When I debated my opponent in Savannah back when he would debate me. And I was arguing for expansion of the Pell Grant program. He denounced that as socialism. Expansion of the Pell Grant program, college affordability. Bishop, have you noticed that there's always money for tax giveaways for wealthy donors? There's always money for bank bailouts. There's always money for war. But then when you start talking about making college affordable for young black people in this country, suddenly the country has no resources. It's about priorities. And Morris Brown and HBCUs must be among the highest priorities for political leaders. It's been too long since political leaders talked about ending poverty in America. We've become, I think, too cynical, unwilling to dream about what's possible.

We should not accept that poverty and homelessness are inevitable or necessary in our society. As long as there are poverty and homelessness, we are failing as a people. So we need to once again talk about ending poverty in America, talk about ending homelessness in America. The problem of gentrification in the urban core of this city, and again I want to observe the discrepancy between the level of public resources invested in entertainment and the level of public resources invested in entertainment and the level of public resources invested in education as people are forced out and as black communities are forced out of the center of the city by the rising property taxes our government's failure

to invest in transit in transportation and an affordable housing means that people are living far from where they work and can barely put a roof over their heads. And that's why we need an infrastructure and jobs bill as part of a relief effort after COVID-19 that will include investments in transit and transportation and affordable housing. I believe that was our last question for our time today. Sir, we want to thank you again for being here today. Thank you. You know, just for the media to know an invitation went out to everyone and you were the only one that responded. And so we want to thank you for your investment into HBCUs, specifically here at Morris Brown College. Morris Brown is back. We're going to bring this institution back stronger than ever.

The only black college in Georgia founded by African-, for us, by us, and an institution that is a haven for hungry souls. We don't turn folks away. Anyone who deserves an education, anyone who wants an education, the doors are open here at Morris Brown. And we appreciate your support. As soon as I leave here, I'm headed over to vote. So we encourage the entire community to please vote. And thank you so much again for being here today.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, that was John Ossoff on the campus of Morris Brown College there. And as I said, the university, they're focused on trying to regain their Mr. President, so when the campus of Morris

had an opportunity to talk to the Morris Brown president after that particular interview here is our conversation I'm mr. president when a campus of Morris Brown and this campus used to be larger yes so you know what has changed now are you down to is it what a couple of buildings yes so here at Morris Brown we historically had 42 acres of land during Yes. So, you know, what has changed now? Are you down to, is it what, a couple of buildings? Yes. So here at Morris Brown, we historically had 42 acres of land. During bankruptcy, we lost about 36 acres. Wow. So right now we have three buildings here at Morris Brown. Our administration building, which is now known as the Dr. Gloria L. Anderson Multipurpose Complex. We have Griffin High Tower Science Building and then Fountain Hall, which is our historic symbol of the institution. Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois office is on the second floor. I was last here when the BET show the quad on this campus. Yes. Now that you have the accreditation

what's the next what's the next step because obviously you so you have to sell land. Yes. So what's next with these three buildings? Is it refurbishing? So what's the next these three buildings? Is it refurbishing? So what's the next steps for Morris Brown? Yes. So we just refurbished this building, the multi-purpose complex. We're not fully accredited yet. Our application was approved.

Right. And they will be here in two weeks to come and look at the facilities for the on-site visit. Hello. Once we get through the visit, our goal is to be accounted for accreditation in April. Okay. So in a few months. Regarding these buildings, right now we're prepping to turn this building right here into a hotel. Okay. So we're gonna tie it into our hospitality management training program. So this right here and they were

currently working on restoring Fountain Hall. All right. Now that's a historic landmark. It can never go anywhere. It be here forever but but but the whole point and part of the whole point of the accreditation is yes uh you have to facilities are a huge part absolutely of accreditation and so you turn that to the hotel now that where uh if you get the creation where students will stay well we're looking at some extended state housing but we're looking at housing options right now for our students online learning is going to be critically important for our restoration of the institution and so that's going to be a part of it. And we're also looking at trying to get some of the land surrounding the institution back. Right. Okay. And so in terms of if you talk about, okay, April, when did you think you will be back in full operation as a fully accredited restored university? Well, after a candidacy, which is the most important for us, we're eligible to apply for federal financial aid. That's the most important for us right now. After candidacy,

it's somewhere between three to five years, or it could be somewhere between two to five years, just depending on how fast you get through proving everything that you need to prove. But Morris Brown, we intend on doing it very quickly. So you have folks who might say, look, why are you going through all of this? You've got Clark Atlanta. You've got Morehouse. You've got Spelman. Folks can go there. Why invest money in this when you can actually consolidate to be able to serve the needs of students? Well, we're Morris Brown. We've been open since 1881, and we don't want to merge with any other institution.

We want to fully restore this institution. You know, Morris Brown is very special. We're the only black college in the state that was founded by black people for black people. You know, nothing against any other institution, but we're the original for us, by us. And we want to continue to move this institution forward. The blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors,

we're not going to allow it to die. So we're going to continue to push forward as Morris Brown College. Are you still, in terms of what role does the church still play in Morris Brown? And for folks out there who are saying, okay, why haven't they done more to help the university to restore it? Well, actually, we are still affiliated with the AME Church. We're founded in the basement of Big Bethel AME Church. We are an AME Church affiliated institution. Now, regarding them helping us, they've absolutely helped us over the years. As a matter of fact, the only reason we're open today is because of the support of the AME Church. Most recently, they showed up and showed out by forgiving $4.2

million that we owe them so we can get accredited. And they're still supporting us financially. They just, at homecoming, presented a check for $120,000 on behalf of the 6th District of the AME Church. So the AME Church definitely has been supportive, and we're going to continue our affiliation with them. All right, then. Well, we certainly appreciate it. Certainly keep us up to date. Yes, sir. What's happening with Morris Brown? Yes, sir. Thank you so much, sir. Thanks a bunch. I appreciate it. Thank you, man. All right. all right thank you guys let's go to our panel candace kelly legal analyst reena shaw the lincoln project women's coalition also joseph williams senior editor u.s news and world report candace let's first start with our top story the folks that black voters matter uh are battling

what we are seeing in this uh state uh even though we're in the middle of a runoff election, Republicans are desperate to win. They do not like the fact that Joe Biden won by less than 12,000 votes against Donald Trump. In fact, Republicans wanted to change the state law to impact the January 5th runoff. That is called voter suppression. Indeed, it is called voter suppression. And, you know, Cliff said a number of important things, but one of the most important things

he said was that everything that they're trying to do in terms of going into the court system and actually, you know, legally trying to suppress voters is that they haven't met the lowest threshold at all. And that is probable cause. They haven't met that. All of these lawsuits are frivolous. And just as we've seen all of the other lawsuits that have been pushed back and put off and all

the way up to the Supreme Court, we're going to see that here. We've seen that here. They have said it is a frivolous lawsuit. Another thing that we're looking at, and it seems to be a pattern of let's just do nothing by the Republicans. Let's not respond. Let's act like they're not there. This is why we saw Ossoff kind of, you know, talk to an empty stage, because we had Perdue saying, I'm not even going to acknowledge him. I'm just going to pretend that he's not there.

Just like President Trump, I'm going to pretend like I haven't lost. I'm just not going to say anything in terms of trying to acquiesce and say, hey, I happen to have lost. So we see a lot of the strategies at play here. But mostly, we see that we have precedent. And the fact that even though they're trying to illegally suppress voters, they're not going to get away with it because precedent has already spoken. And people are already on the ground fighting very, very hard,

as we saw Latasha and Cliff, to find people to go and serve them to say, hey, this is not going to work out. Joseph, again, this is why the legal groups matter. This is why we have to stay hypervigilant, Because, again, what Republicans want to do in this state, they want to shave off 1,000, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50,000 votes because they know this is going to be a very, very close runoff. Well, that's exactly right. And they do it in places where they think no one is looking, like Brunswick, Georgia, like some of the other counties that Cliff mentioned.

But look, this is a battle that we've been fighting, as he also mentioned, since the 1800s. It has never stopped. It's a relentless battle. The only difference now is that there are courts that can handle this kind of thing, and it doesn't have to be settled with the gun at the ballot box, as they probably would have done if they were able to get away with it. But what's incredibly frustrating to me is the fact that this is an area of the country that we used to have protocols to keep them from doing things like purging voter rolls within 30 days of an election and passing new laws. That was the preclearance section of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, rather, that the Supreme Court gutted a couple of years ago.

This would not be happening if that were still in place. But we do know that Republicans are really ready, willing, and able to do whatever it takes to win. They believe in power. They don't believe in democracy necessarily. And they are doing what they need to do right now. Georgia is very crucial, as we've discussed many times in the show. Win it, you win control of the Senate. Lose it, and the Democrats get to do, execute their agenda to a certain degree. So for Republicans, it's a winner-take-all strategy.

No stone left unturned, no holds barred. So I expect to see even more of that continued with the onslaught of propaganda that we've been seeing from national Democrats or national Republicans, to disparage Raphael Warnock and John Ossoff. It's already starting. It's going to get more intense as the election day nears. So there are going to be many, many battles to be fought on this front before the final vote is cast. This arena is par for the course for Republicans, especially in this state. They can't handle losing. So therefore they want to cheat. Now, it's hilarious to hear them talking about steal the vote when that's literally what they are trying to do by stealing elections, by disenfranchising black people

in this state and other states across the country? Well, Roland, I mean, I think when you're desperate, you're this desperate, you're going to call in the cavalry from other places. And I'm reminded by that very thing tonight when I read a story in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and it is appalling what the Georgia Republican Party is doing in partnering with a Texas-based group called True the Vote. They're an election watchdog group, and they're targeting voters whose names are showing up on USPS lists. Basically, our U.S. Postal Service has lists showing whose addresses have changed. Well, that's where True the Vote, this group, is going to say basically, you know, here are the people we need to purge. They act like they're doing something that's necessary for democracy.

But what they're really doing in challenging the eligibility of over 364,000 Georgian voters who've either moved is really a bold-faced, a really sad, bold-faced attempt to disqualify those ballots. What they're trying to do is make it so that those people have to fill out provisional ballots if they show up at the polls, and they've already been successful. In Muskogee County, that very tactic that True the Vote has done, it's gaining traction. And in Muskogee County, 4,000 voters, if they show up at the polls, are going to have to fill out provisional ballots. This is so important to talk about. We need to talk to our neighbors in Georgia. If you're listening tonight, you live in Georgia, talk to your neighbors about this. This group is on the ground. And guess what? They're

getting Republican political operatives in different counties to do this thing. How? They are basically questioning the voters' residency and leaving decisions over whose ballot should count. They're leaving it to election boards. And what these operatives are doing by going to these election boards and challenging it, they're essentially saying, hey, look, we've got something here. So look, the burden of proof is on the challenger for sure. But voters might be asked to provide information that shows their vote is actually valid. That is where this whole thing becomes murky. And this is why we need to stay vigilant. You are so right about that, because when they're desperate, the Republicans are desperate.

They call in the cavalry. And what they're doing right now is just the most bold-faced attempt to disenfranchise voters. And it's one of the oldest tricks in the book. It really is. And this is how they hope to win. Absolutely. And so what we have been doing, we're going to continue to focus folks on these issues, continue to shine a light on them because they are crucially important, again, as we begin to break these things down. Got to go to a break. We come back. We're going to talk about Kansas City.

The local newspaper there apologized for years of racist coverage. We'll talk to black folks who are from KC about that. Also, we'll chat with Congressman Bobby Scott about changes in law which will now allow those who have served in prison to qualify for Pell Grants, but also the forgiveness of a billion dollars in federal loans to HBCUs. And that Virginia black man who was handcuffed by cops while he was eating with his family at the mall, the cops have now issued an apology. We will talk to him right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered, broadcasting live from Atlanta.

We are on the ground covering the Georgia Senate runoff races. We'll be back in a moment. If your vote didn't matter, you wouldn't have so many people trying so hard to stop you from voting. There is some value there. But even when you talk about that people are not paying attention to your issues, I can't pay attention to your issues if I don't even know you there. And the only reason people are going to know you there

is when you show up to the polls and vote. That's when that power manifests itself. But as long as you stay at home, as long as you're making excuses, then guess what? You will always experience these issues that we're experiencing today. And another thing, don't get caught up in the candidates, right? There's no such thing as a perfect

candidate, but you should be going to vote for the most important person and that is you and the one you love. You talk about you'll fight for the one you love, you're willing to die for the one you love, you need to ask yourself are you willing to vote for the one you love? Because if you don't, there's going to be somebody's neck on yours pretty soon. Daring to demand the right to vote for Black Americans

in Selma, Alabama, 55 years ago, John Lewis was nearly killed as he and hundreds marched across this bridge. That movement's courage secured the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, but the promise of equal justice in America remains unfulfilled. So together we'll fight for a new Civil Rights Act and a new Voting Rights Act to ensure equal justice for all, no matter the color of our skin, to end racial profiling and police brutality, and to stop anyone from suppressing the sacred right to vote. Congressman Lewis gave me my first job. He instilled in me the conviction to fight for

justice. He said to never give in, never give up, keep the faith, and keep our eyes on the prize. I'm Jon Ossoff. I approve this message. Too many people struggled, suffered, and died to make it possible for every American to exercise their right to vote. There's a lot of stuff to do this time of year. Get the tree. Done. Hang the lights. Not yet. Wrap presents. Check. But this year, there's one extra thing to do. Vote. That's right.

Early voting starts December 14th, so make voting part of your holiday plans. It'll probably take you less time than it'll take me to do this. I'm Raphael Warnock, and I approve this message. We learned early in Sunday school that thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, thou shall not have no other gods before me. Raphael Warnock's opponent seems to have forgotten these basic Sunday school lessons. Her gods have agreed her lies about Pastor Warnock and her shady Wall Street practices are evidence of this. And on January the 5th, let's bear witness that greed, lies, and shady dealings don't represent Georgia.

Let's send Raphael Warnock to the U.S. Senate to fight for the least of these and not Wall Street billionaires. We got power. We're about to get ready to launch our We Got Power Tour. Cliff and I are going on the blackest bus in America. We're hitting the streets again. We're going to be going through at least 12 states, maybe more. I'm just really excited. Now, it's a little bit different this time because COVID-19, we've got to wear masks, we've got to be socially distanced, but we are very committed that we've got to get in

the streets and inspire and encourage our people in ways that are socially distanced. Ready to hit the road, ready to see our folks, ready to be socially distant, ready to mask up. On our way to Pennsylvania, we'll be there for two days, and then we're headed to Ohio to Cleveland. We're going to be just spreading a lot of love and building a lot of power. The very last day, we're going to be out here on the ground in these streets because our people need us.

Can't stop. Won't stop. Register to vote. You can even request your online vote by mail ballot by clicking the link or by scanning our QR code with your camera. Vote early. Vote today. Because we got power. The Kansas City Star, the city's daily newspaper, apologized for years and years, decades, of racist coverage against African Americans.

How do black folks feel about that? Eric Weston is the managing editor of the Kansas City Call, the black newspaper there, and Sheila Brooks is CEO of D.C.-based SRB Communications and a native of Kansas City. Glad to have both of you. Eric, first and foremost, of course, the call has been known for its coverage of the black community there,

historic black newspaper there. What do you make of this massive spread by the Kansas City Star and them looking inward, apologizing for decades of racist coverage targeting African-Americans. OK, let me know about Eric. Sheila, are you there? I'm right here. Can you hear me?

All right. So, guys, let me know. Let me know. We have the audio with Eric Wesson. Sheila, you take that question there. Your thoughts on this big spread in the paper and that apology? Well, you know, Roland, African-Americans have been disenfranchised because of those racist stories over the years. It's good to see leadership stand up, admit it. But we need to go the next step. We need to start hiring people who look like us, people who are in positions of power as editors, as well as reporters, so that they can go out and cover these stories. And I guess my question to the Kansas City Star right now is, what's next? What do you do next? So all these years, you finally realized that this has been wrongdoing. How do you change that in your newsroom? What happens next?

Eric Wesson, managing editor of The Call, your thoughts? Well, I think that it's kind of a little bit too much too late. Where's the reparations in all of this? You know, it's one thing to say, hey, we're sorry, we won't do it again. But it kind of looks like it's, you know, we apologize, come and buy our paper again, black people, because we're OK now. And it's one of the things, as I was telling the publisher and president of the store, it's like the horse is already out of the barn. Now you close the gate and you think everything is OK, but the horse is still out of the barn. So how do you make amends for an advantage that you've had in disenfranchising a race of people for 143 years?

Where do you make amends at? And that point you made there, Sheila, I think is a critical one while you're saying what's next, because here's the paper examining its coverage. Now the question that, look, you're a long-time member of NABJ, National Association of Black Journalists, so am I, and our deal all is, okay,

now how do you look at inside? How do you now say, this is the path we're going to chart forward when it comes to covering African Americans, when it comes to staffing, when it comes to things along those lines. No, you're absolutely right. And what's happening is we see all of this

in the backdrop of all of the racial unrest in this country. But we've missed so many of our stories in the African-American community in Kansas City, Missouri. Those achievements that so many of those leaders had and aspirations and milestones. And now we're saying, OK, we're sorry, but how do you move forward? What are you going to do

different in that newsroom? How do you go about getting the coverage right this time? And the way to start that is certainly to have African Americans who are editors, who are reporters, who are out covering stories, and who are part of the news gathering process. That's what makes changes in the newsroom. And it can't just be,

oh, we're going to hire one or two people to make this happen. That has to be a complete overhaul of that newsroom. I agree with that. Eric, obviously, you're there with... Eric, go ahead. Eric, go ahead. And I agree with that.

And this morning in our conversation, it was, well, you know, we hired a Black editor now, so he's going to go out and we have this advisory board. And I'm thinking, why do you have to have an advisory board to tell you how to connect to the black community when you're here in the black community? I mean, I don't understand what that is. And I think a lot of reparations need to be made with that. But what was your question? No, I mean, in terms of picking up on that, because at the end of the day, that's really how, if you want to talk about this, what we did in the past,

really the question is how you're charting a new future. And the reality is, let's just cut to the chase. White folks have no clue on how to appropriately cover black folks. And the reality is, let's just cut to the chase, white folks have no clue on how to appropriately cover black folks. And what they do is you also can't just say, yeah, we hired one. It's a hell of a lot of talented black journalists out there. And you've got to have editors with guts to say, we're not just going to hire one. We're going to actually hire more than that. And also, and make non-black staffers understand you've got to integrate African-Americans into every single thing that you do with the sports, entertainment, business, culture, lifestyle, food, you name it. That has to be the mission. And it has to be. That's being intentional.

And that's what has to happen. You have to be intentional about your news coverage. And that has not happened at the Kansas City Star or for that matter, so many other media organizations in this country. And now in the backdrop of the racial unrest in this country, everybody's step, whether it's newspapers or other media outlets, major corporations, major advertising agencies, global as well as national. And everybody's saying, oh, we're going to hire these DEI folks. That's not going to do it, folks. That's not going to change content and change coverage. The only way that's going to happen is that you hire people who look like you and me, Roland, who look like all of us here on this newscast. And then it trickles down. You have to hire them so they can hire other reporters and photographers and all of those other folks that we're talking about. But then since we're talking

about coverage, what's going to change as you go out in our communities, particularly in the community of Kansas City, Missouri? What's going to change in order to bring back the kind of positive coverage now, not the negative coverage, not what has happened over all these years in the past. And, you know, in addition to that, the hiring. Eric? Yeah. In addition to the hiring crisis. Eric, go ahead.

Go ahead. Okay. Can you hear me hiring. Go ahead. Go ahead. OK. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Go ahead. In addition to the hiring practices, it also has to be an effort made to get that next generation of reporters. And one of the things that I suggested to them was, let's do some scholarship. When I was a member of the KCABJ, I can remember the store buying us some coffee and donuts maybe once or twice for a meeting. But where's the outreach? Where's it going into Lincoln College Prep School, Central High School, motivating an expiring young, the next generation of journalists to come in to write about it. We had a flood here several years ago, well, about a decade ago. It mentioned the damage that it did to the black community in passing. Every other story on there was about the damage that it did to the plaza. When we had the unrest here in Kansas City several months ago,

when they stepped foot on the plaza, it changed the whole dynamic of things. But that's what they reported. And if it wasn't for the fact of George Floyd, I doubt very seriously today if the star would have written an apology and done this series. To me, the series is okay, fine, and good, but it just seems superficial, Roland. It's like other newspapers have done that throughout the country, and I looked some of them up starting in June.

They started doing it at the unrest of George Floyd. So again, my question is, if this is sincere, why did it take George Floyd for them to start talking about the practices that they've had for centuries? That's my problem. Where do we go from here? What do we do? This all seems good and come by y'all moment and they can go to bed and feel good saying, hey, you know, we're trying to do something better. But where's the fruits of your labor at? And, you know, Roland, it is no longer a nice to have. Sheila Brooks, final comment. Yes, it's no longer a nice to have one African-American that's an editor or a reporter. It's a moral obligation. No longer do we want to hear about talking the talk.

We want to see them walk the walk. And you can do that. Partner with the National Association of Black Journalists. If you're looking for talented African-Americans, we know how to find them if you don't. Absolutely. Absolutely. Ain't that hard.

Sheila Brooks, Eric Weston, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much. All right. Thank you. Joseph Williams, I want to start with you. What the Kansas City Star has done, it's important. This is what other newspapers should do as well, go into the history. The New York Times did that when it came to the obits they did on African

Americans. This is all a part of the reckoning, dealing with the history of race in this country and the role that media has played in fostering racism, white supremacy, bigotry in America. Well, yeah, exactly. And part

of the problem that I have with the series, I mean, yeah, absolutely, it is fine to get reckoning, put your cards on the table, talk about what you have done. However, it is superficial. There is no plan going forward. And you and I both know, I'm proud NABJ member right here. I used to work for the Richmond Times Dispatch, the Richmond Times Dispatch. Now, if they don't have some reckoning to do, I don't know what paper does. And they have not yet even come close to doing anything like that. So I think that they not only do have to reckon with the past, which a lot of people are not going to be happy about. They don't want to hear these sort of things. They feel like the past needs to stay in the past. But you can't move forward unless you know what the history is. And I think that

it's a good starting point. They need to partner up with NABJ. They need to run scholarship programs. They need to recruit from HBCUs. My own paper, the organization that I work for right now, U.S. News and World Report, we have had a problem with this. And that is one of the things that I've brought to their feet, is we need to recruit internships. We need to recruit interns from Howard University right down the street. Not a married intern has ever come from Howard J. School. So there are things that it can do. It's low hanging fruit. It's really, really easy. One other point that I do want to make is that the failure of the mainstream media back in those days and continuing these days led to the rise of the black press. And you yourself as a former executive editor of the Chicago Defender, one of the proudest newspapers

in the history of the black press, it gave rise to those sorts of things that needs to be rebuilt. We need to have a black press on the scene because we know that the influence of white media is fairly limited and they're only going to do the least that they can do. That is certainly the case there. So you absolutely nailed it, folks. Congressional leaders have struck a deal to reinstate Pell Grants for incarcerated folks. Why is this important? This is important because in the 1994 crime bill, this whole tough on crime deal, that's where that money was pulled.

For 26 years, Pell Grants have been withheld from nearly 1.5 million people in state and federal prisons. Now, the proposed change would grant incarcerated students eligibility to use federal dollars to pay for college while in prison. In addition to this, Congress has also moved forward to forgive more than a billion dollars in loans to HBCUs. Joining us right now is Virginia Congressman Bobby Scott, who is a strong advocate for education. Congressman Scott, glad to have you back on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Good to see you, Roland. Can you hear me? Folks who don't quite understand, I can hear you just fine, sir. But folks who don't quite understand how big this is, this provision to deny Pell Grants to folks who were in prison or even those who even got out, formerly incarcerated, in addition to the banning of people from public housing, this had a tremendous impact in the 80s and 90s of 2000 to present day on people who went through

our criminal justice system, who were trying to get back on their feet, but frankly were being shut out of most avenues in order to do so. Well, anybody who's coming out of prison knows that you're going to have challenges trying to get a job. If you've got college degrees, that makes things easier. If you have job skills, that makes things easier. Unfortunately, in the 1994 crime bill, the rhetoric got out of hand and they said, well, if you're in prison, you're not going to be eligible for a Pell Grant. That was that's counterproductive because all the studies show that if you get a good education in prison, you're so much less likely to come back. And you say the government saves more money in reduced future incarceration than you spend

on the Pell Grants. So it makes no sense to deny the prisoners Pell Grants because we deny the government cost savings. In addition to that, it helps the prisons. People are busy studying. They're too busy to be messing around and causing havoc. But it's a big deal because as you come out of prison, you will be able to get much more likely to get a job. And it's always amazed to me, if you hold somebody in prison three, four, five years, six years, how do they come out as uneducated as they went in?

That just makes no sense. And so the Pell Grants, I think, was a major step forward. As you indicated, it's been about 26 years in denial. We've missed all the opportunity to educate the prisoners. We've seen people come back to prison and we spent all that money because we didn't make the investments. But now in the future, we will be able to educate the prisoners so that they can take care of themselves and won't get in trouble, and much less likely to get in trouble in the future. A lot of groups support it. It's just tough politically.

I saw one report that even the Chamber of Commerce supports it because they're looking for workers. And if the workers come out of prison better educated, they'll make better workers. Well, but part of the problem here, Congressman Scott, is this whole nonsense of lock them up, throw away the key. They don't need services. They don't need any of these things. What the hell is rehabilitation? What the hell is the point of spending $35,000, $40,000, $50,000 a year

to imprison somebody only to create an environment where they have to, frankly, come out. If I can't live in public housing and I can't get an education and because of the box I can't sit here public housing and I can't get an education. And because of because of the box, I can't sit here and get a job. What the hell else do I have to do but to go back to a life of crime in order to live and survive? You're exactly right. And the old way of doing things was just to stick with the rhetoric. The poll tested slogans and soundbites and it doesn't have to make any sense. It just has to appeal to emotion and get you some votes.

I'm delighted to report that Joe Biden has promised in his upcoming administration to take a much more enlightened approach. Prevention, early intervention, rehabilitation, making the investments that reduce crime and save money. If you look at the Democratic platform, you'll see major investments in rehabilitation to make sure that people who go to prison come out much better educated than they went in, much less likely to commit a crime than they were when they were arrested. So I'm looking forward to a change in direction. In 1994, it was all slogans and soundbites. That was just the politics of the day. There's nothing you can do about it. That's just how people were.

You argue, you give them statistics. They weren't interested. Now I think there's an appetite for doing things that make sense. And I'm looking forward to what's about 30 days when Joe Biden gets sworn in, we'll be able to take a different approach. Congressman, I do want to ask you about this here to speak about this forgiveness of a billion dollars in loans to HBCUs. That is certainly good news for the nation's HBCUs. Well, another thing that, as you've indicated in the bill, is loan forgiveness of HBCUs under the

capital loan program. Many have desperately needed the funds and borrowed the money and made capital improvements. The pandemic has come. they're all under severe financial stress, and now these loans are causing problems. The accreditation of colleges is to a certain extent based on your financial security. And if you have financial stress, you may lose your accreditation. And so this loan forgiveness will go a long way in helping the colleges not only get a much better cash flow, because the money that would be going to paying loans can be going to scholarships and programs, but it also makes their bottom line look a lot better.

This is something that the colleges have been looking for for several years, and we're just delighted that we could get this in the COVID relief package. It's over a billion dollars. I talked to one college president, and that college will have loan relief in the amount of approximately $50 million. There's other things for colleges generally. With a set-aside for minority-serving institutions, HBCUs get a significant portion of that. So they'll be getting not only the loan relief, those that have borrowed money, but also the set-aside under the college fund and be getting

college money. So I think the HBCUs will be much better able to withstand the pandemic than they were before we passed this bill. Congressman, to that point, I was on the campus of Morris Brown College today. We're about to show some of that aerial video. The president said at one point this was a university. They had 42 acres. They had to sell about 36 of those acres to pay off issues in the bankruptcy. They used to have a number of buildings. Now they're down to two buildings.

They're trying to get their accreditation. They also have to restore those buildings. And so your particular point, that's what people don't realize. A part of the accreditation process is also how up to date are your facilities. And so this is one of the issues. I guess it was last year when Howard University experienced some issues with the heat pumps under the ground. They couldn't have students back in those dorms. That caused problems. And so we talk about educating our folks, but the infrastructure is another part of this. If you do not have quality buildings, and unfortunately you don't have the same endowments that HBCUs to be able to keep up with expenditures when it comes to facilities.

So this loan forgiveness is a major, major deal. It's a big deal. And you have to go back to the definition of an HBCU. That is a college that was formed and existed during legal segregation. The state colleges were not getting the money that the white colleges were getting. The private colleges were not getting the money that the white colleges were getting. The private colleges were not able to raise money because they were dealing with segregation in the community. And so that's the definition of an HBCU. It's not that the students there are black, but it is historically black, and it suffered under segregation. And this will go a long way in helping them recover from the vestiges of segregation, making sure that they can come forth and have a much better bottom line and address their students. During this pandemic, a lot of students aren't

coming back to college. They're seeing drops in enrollment, and that has been an additional problem caused by the pandemic. So this relief is really coming at a good time. This legislation, we're able to get a lot of things, appellate grants for prisoners, loan relief for HBCUs. There's another provision that it's hard to even believe it was actually part of the U.S. code, and that is that until the president signs the bill, there is a prohibition about using federal money for transportation for the purpose of school integration. It is illegal to use federal money in transportation for the purpose of integrating IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE FEDERAL MONEY IN TRANSPORTATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF INTEGRATING THE SCHOOLS. THIS IS 2020, NOT 1953.

AND THERE IS THIS PROHIBITION. IT'S BEEN THERE SINCE 1974, AND WE'RE FINALLY GETTING THAT OUT OF THE U.S. CODE. WE HAVE FOUND THAT STUDENTS DO MUCH BETTER IN INTEGRATED SETTINGS. ACHIEVEMENT GAPS ARE LOWER. We have found that students do much better in integrated settings. Achievement gaps are lower. Everything is much better. Those that go to integrated schools, lower achievement gap, more likely to go to college, more likely to graduate, less likely to be poor after you later in life. And yet the studies are showing that segregation in public schools is as bad today as it was in the 1960s and getting worse. And we're sitting up here with a provision like that

in the U.S. Code. Well, it's the first step in trying to make things better. And that was in that removing that prohibition was part of the legislation, along with restoring Pell Grants for prisoners after 26 years and after all of the relief that we'll be giving historically black colleges and other minority serving institutions. Congressman Bobby Scott, glad to have you on the show. We appreciate that breakdown. What we're also going to do, Congressman, we're going to spend some time over the next three days. Everybody keeps talking about the COVID relief,

but there's a lot of stuff in this bill. There's a lot of stuff that critics don't like. But I do think it's important for us to go through and explain to our listeners those things that are of benefit in this bill for African-Americans. And so that's one of the things that we certainly want to do. We appreciate you coming on today's show. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Keep up the good work. Thank you, sir. Folks, got to go to a break. We come back. We're going to talk with black charter leaders. leaders, are they happy with Joe Biden's choice for education secretary? Also, the brother who

was handcuffed by Virginia police in a mall by eating with his family wrongfully handcuffed, they've now apologized, but he also speaks out right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. That is next. Back in a

moment, broadcasting live from Atlanta America is a complicated story of people building a more more perfect Union and if you don't think there's been any change you should sit down with Andrew Young you should sit down from some of the folks in that generation who know the distance we've come. And as we continue to push hard, change comes. The other side knows your power. The other side knows your voice. That's why they're engaged in voter suppression. If you weren't so powerful, they wouldn't be trying so hard to stop you from voting.

So you ought to stand up in this defining moment in American history and win the future for all of our children. We're at Mom's Kitchen in Preston, Georgia. It's a family business. I enjoy making people happy, giving them a good meal. But since COVID, we had to close our main dining room. We lost all of that business,

and we used to do a lot of caterings. We can't do any of that anymore. David Perdue knew what was about to happen. He was getting classified briefings about the pandemic. But instead of him being concerned about us, he off selling stock. We had no idea we'd have to close our businesses off. We'd lose caterings, and so many people died. And then when we needed help the most, he fought against the stimulus checks

and to cut unemployment insurance. Perdue needs to come out and Ossoff in. Early voting starts December 14th. You've got to make a plan to vote. I'm John Ossoff, and I approve this message. When you're 22, you absolutely do not expect to be diagnosed with cancer. You know that it can always come back. And that's why I'm supporting Raphael Warnock, because he understands that health care is fundamental to people's lives. I'm sick and tired of being represented by people who are actively working to take away my health care.

Raphael Warnock fights for people. That's what he cares about. I'm Raphael Warnock, and I approve this message. Georgia, you're not just voting for you. No, you're voting for me, too. Georgia, I got you on my mind. You have got a chance today to keep the you in USA. Oh, Georgia, say can you see you could save my democracy? Oh, Georgia, you're not just voting for you.

No, you're voting for me too. Georgia, you're not just voting for you. No, you're voting for me too. I know you've got to be tired of washing hands and wearing masks, but you could save the planet's ass. Oh, Georgia, we're all waiting to see if you've left the Confederacy Well, welcome to the 21st century Now you're voting for me too You could sit around and mope and say Oh, what's the difference?

Or you could just get out and vote Just two senators in blue Georgiaia you know what to do georgia you're not just voting for you no you're voting for me too no georgia put love back in the world who better than a fine southern girl? Well, Georgia, come on and give it a whirl, cause you're voting for me too. Yes, you're voting for me too. Make January 5th a belated Christmas gift. Georgia, you know what to do. Cue a non-conspiracy. Vote that crap away from me. Georgia, you know what. You know what to do.

Georgia. All right, folks. President-elect Joe Biden has chosen a new education secretary. He is Miguel Cardona. He's the commissioner of Connecticut Public Schools, and he is going to be the education secretary under Joe Biden. Last year, the 45-year-old was named Connecticut's top schools official. It's confirmed he will have moved from an assistant superintendent to secretary of education in less than two years.

Joining us right now is Dr. Steve Perry. He's the founder of Capital Preparatory School there in Connecticut. Also, they have a school there in Harlem as well. Knows this candidate quite well. Steve, we originally booked you and Margaret Fortune, president and CEO of Fortune School. She will be joining us shortly to talk about black charter leaders' oppositions to three names are being floated, but they were not chosen by Joe Biden. Share with our folks your thoughts on this choice, good choice, lukewarm choice, bad choice by Joe Biden to be education secretary.

First of all, good evening, Roland. Keep doing what you're doing, brother. You are telling our story to the world, and we can never, ever, ever thank you enough. So first of all, thank you for that. Second, Dr. Cardona is a relatively new commissioner here in the state of Connecticut, and I'm favorable to him, not because he's been overwhelmingly supportive of school choice or because he's been overwhelmingly innovative. In neither case have we seen that. But in all fairness to him, he began his commissionership really in the midst of a pandemic. So we can only hold him accountable for so much. We, meaning the NAACP and I, had spent the past six months attempting to work with his office to create a more robust opportunity for black and Latin people to become teachers in the state of Connecticut. And his office has not been especially effective at executing that, which is terribly disappointing. But my hope is that when he goes to Washington, that he will pick up the mantle of this opportunity and create more spaces for black and Latin people to become teachers in the United States of America.

Margaret Fortune with Fortune Schools out of the West Coast. She joins us via phone. Margaret, your thoughts on this new pick to be education secretary? Well, Roland, I think it represents the president-elect Biden stepping out of the fire of picking a union leader, frankly. You know, just a few weeks ago, we understood that Lily Eccleston Garcia, the past president of NEA, was the lead candidate with the support of the Hispanic caucus. And the Hispanic caucus shifted and now supports Dr. Miguel Cardona. I think that's a good sign for school reformers across the country that Biden is not looking to pick that particular fight at confirmation. You know, I think he has picked somebody picked somebody who is has a track record in

public education, who is not looking to spend his time picking fights with charter schools, which are public schools, and that I anticipate will focus on getting schools reopened safely in Biden's first 100 days. And I think, Roland, that's an agenda we can all get behind, no matter what type of school you're leading. It's also important to know— I want to bring in Candace. Steve, go ahead. It's also important to note that Dr. Cardona went to a school of choice when he was in high school. He went to a vocational technical school.

He did not go to his neighborhood school, which is an important distinction because I think he understands how when a child is given the opportunity to attend the school that is best for them, how it could put them on the path to live their dream, and he would appear to be living his. So he has the capacity to have the empathy towards those of us who seek the opportunity for children to choose the best school for them. I want to bring in Candace and Rena to my panelists. I want to get their thoughts on this pick by Joe Biden. Candace, I want to start with you. Jeffrey Canada was one of the folks.

His name was being mentioned. That would have been a really huge pick, an inspirational leader, a visionary, somebody who bring the passion as well. Someone with a national profile would have been interesting as well. And but to Margaret's point on that point, you know, union union leaders really thought that Joe Biden was going to pick one of their own to be education secretary. He chose not to. Yeah, not only did he choose not to, but he chose someone who has been against unions in terms of opening up schools. Let's look at the numbers. Where are we now when it comes to the coronavirus? Everybody wants schools and malls and restaurants to open, but we're now looking at headlines of a virus that's mutated.

So that's going to be a hump for him. On the other hand, we've got Betsy DeVos in this very expensive helicopter view, and now you do have someone who's on the ground walking, understanding what it really means to be in the system. He's got two daughters that are in the public school system. He was the youngest principal ever in the state at the age of 28. So he knows exactly what's going on. And I think that we're going to see a lot of good things from him. Certainly you had Republicans and Democrats who were wondering, well, who is this guy? But the thing is, they didn't necessarily hate him. They didn't necessarily like him because they, I think that they understood, let's wait and see from this guy what we're going to get. It's not a bad choice. We just don't know exactly what he's going to do because of his record.

It is not a very long record in terms of the type of national attention that people have when it comes to solving these issues. But he certainly is in the trenches. And that's what somebody wants. They want somebody who's in the trenches. And as we know, all eyes are on Biden. He selected someone who is a person of color and he selected someone that believes in the education system and fought hard in that he's the first person to have even graduated from college.

So I think he understands it. And I think that a lot of people have a lot of high expectations for him and we just have to wait and see if they're going to be met. Rena Shaw? Well, I think this is an incredible pick on so many levels because he's not very controversial. I think that's the beauty of this pick in essence because he comes from a very unique background,

being the product of public schools. As Candace mentioned, somebody who at 27 was the youngest principal of schools in Connecticut and the entire state. That says something. When you're a product of public schools and you've spent your career talking about how you want to strengthen those schools and you want to embrace the diversity that's out there, from people who grow up in projects to half-a-million-dollar homes, you really understand what needs to change about U.S. education. So I have full faith that Dr. Cardona is going to do that. Of course, I love the fact that he is the first Latino person to be appointed, not just state education commissioner as well in Connecticut. And so this Biden pick, I fully

believe, is strong because it really goes back again to Biden really wanting to be a unifier in these picks, really wanting to be somebody who finds people that really, I believe, can work in that moderate middle lane, bringing people together. And I think it's best evidenced by people who ran charter schools in Connecticut. They say that he was very fair. He wasn't anti-charter. He wasn't pro-charter. He was incredibly fair from his post. And I think that is a beautiful thing. I'm somebody that really wants to see school choice enacted. I'm not a Betsy DeVos type, but I know the arguments that conservatives have brought against the U.S.

public education that we have and against the Department of Education in general. I know a lot of conservatives generally want to defund that department. Cardona, I think, is going to bring a tone in heading up that department that really unifies people behind the idea, again, of just we really need strong public education in this country because our students need to be able to compete with the superpowers that are rising in the world, like China and India. And those students out there, STEM is everything for them. I want to see that happen in our public schools here. Dr. Cardona is going to be a very good person in this role.

I look forward to watching him grow. I'm not necessarily worried about, frankly, a controversial pick, Steve. I think being in bold is important. And I think what often happens is, and this happens a lot with presidents, and I can go big and bold is important and I think what often happens is this happens a lot with presidents and I can go ahead and say this here. When we talk about whenever you hear politicians run, you talk about the

importance of veterans in the military, yet typically, frankly, presidents pick weak-ass people to be the head of veteran affairs in the department. When you talk about education, they always talk about, oh education, I want to be the education president is affairs in the department. When you talk about education, they always talk about, oh, education. I want to be the education president. It's the most important thing.

But it's not considered to be one of those picks. To me, this is one of those things where, again, you put your money where your mouth is. If you really think it's a priority, you go big or you go home. And I would think that I don't think Dr. Cardona would consider himself going big. I don't think Dr. Cardona would expect himself to be a person who comes in and revolutionizes education. The notion of public education is often spoken of in loving terms, but the public education system has failed black and Latin people since its inception. So I'm not in a hurry to protect such a system. And I think it's foolish for anyone to defend such a system, especially knowing that it is currently destroying the livelihoods of millions of Black and Latin children. I want someone who understands what the data is telling us. The data is telling us when you provide children with the opportunity

to choose a school that is best for them, they tend to do better in that school. Fact, just 15 percent of all schools in the United States of America are magnet and charter schools, yet they represent 65 percent of all the top-performing schools in the U.S. News & World Report top-performing high schools matrix. So why then wouldn't we create more opportunities like that? The reason is because we have this bizarre affection towards the neighborhood school, knowing that every single time it's come before the United States Supreme Court, what we find is that it is the epitome, meaning the neighborhood school, the epitome of racism and classism and removing the opportunity that children have. So my hope is that Dr. Cardona looks around and recognizes that other children want what he had, which is to choose the school that was best for him and then to choose the colleges that were best for him, not to be cordoned off into the schools that were just closest to his home. That public school idea is a dead animal that we need to let lie. Roland, I also think that this, yeah, I also think that this pick of Dr. Kodona signals that we may see more of the education policy, particularly in this time of the pandemic,

being driven out of the White House. To your point, this is a pick who is an unknown, a relative unknown, outside, of course, the state of Connecticut, and who not long ago was an assistant superintendent of a school district with 9,000 students. By way of comparison, some of our largest school districts in the United States have anywhere from 50,000 to 500,000 students. So this is not a pick that I see really driving policy, but maybe somebody who would be executing policy that is driven out of the White House. There are a lot that say that Dr. Jill Biden, given her role as an educator, will have an outsized influence in education policy in America. We'll see what that looks like. Does it look like Hillary Clinton with health care policy?

If it does, we hope that she will fare better than that. We also want to point out that the Biden transition team has been going through great lengths to have stakeholder meetings in the area of education. I've had the opportunity to participate in two such meetings. This type of pick tells me that they were listening. What we'd really like to see from the charter school space is an expansion of charter schools, like what we saw under President Obama, where charter school enrollment increased by 1.7 million students. But this time around, we'd really like to see an emphasis on leaders of color, Black and Latino leaders who are starting charter schools out of an act of self-determination. It is promising that we won't see a fight for confirmation like we would

have with some of the other picks. Is this a pick that is like an Arne Duncan under Obama, where there's a clearly formed ideology there and an education policy that's based on the work of icons like Jeffrey Canada with the Harlem Children's Zone? No. Is this even a pick like under Bush, with No Child left behind, where there's a clear policy there. No, I think we are entering into a stage of recovery and trying to figure out how we can reopen safely. I know that in California, where we have had a turn for the worse in terms of our COVID-19 cases and our deaths due to COVID-19, the schools have been steadily preparing for reopening.

It is a curious thing without a national policy around reopening schools, how this is playing out at the local level. My local mall is open for business. My local retail operation is open for business, but the schools are not. Even though we've gone through a tremendous amount of preparation and also had our plans reviewed by the county health department and meet with county health officials every week. There's a litany of things I can tell you that we have done to prepare to be able to operate. Not that I'm saying that that is the first priority of every educator in America, and we certainly want to do it safely. But I think that there's a need for a national policy so that we can have some consistency rather than it playing out differently from one jurisdiction to the next.

Sorry, you went out, Roland. Steve, what do you want to see from this pick? What I would like to see from this pick is for him to think boldly, to understand that each child deserves an opportunity to expand their opportunity beyond their neighborhood. And so I would like for him to take a look at the race to the top and understand that that is the most powerful holdover from the Obama administration. It changed the lives of literally millions of families simply by creating incentives within the Department of Education, whereby people could gain access to revenue were they to create opportunities within their respective states. It's that kind of expectation that I have of him. He knows what it is that he needs to do in that space.

And my hope is that he looks across the nation and recognizes the opportunity that he has. Candace and Rena, Rena, you said you're excited to see what he does. Out of all the things this pick to focus on, what do you want him to focus on as education secretary? Well, I'm very much in line with Dr. Perry right there. With two very young children, my daughter just turned five last month, and so therefore she's not eligible to start kindergarten until next fall. I've been thinking a lot about what I will do with my now five-year-old come January. It is very frustrating for a parent like me to have to have a balance, a five-year-old and a two-and-a-half-year-old at home all this year. Virtual learning has not worked for either my children.

Them not having an education virtually or in person I have seen has been a detriment. It has put the onus on me as a parent to really figure out what my child needs. And so I, again, very strong proponent of school choice here, but it's really changed my attitude about what our schools do, how they function. So I'm right there with Dr. Perry on what he wants from this pick. I think there is evidence in the now Secretary of Education's past in Connecticut to show that he is somebody that does want school choice. I think, again, you just have to read between the lines. You have to look at his very short tenure to see what he's done in Connecticut. It is small, but I'm encouraged

that he understands diversity. That really matters, again, when we're talking about Black and Latino students. I'm, of course, from the Asian American community. We are a very different community when we talk about education. Our immigrant parents come here, and it is just a totally different ballgame for us. So by no means am I equating what the Asian American experience is with Black and Latino students. This is something, the problem is, I think Arne Duncan has written about it just recently. Speaking of, I know he's just written an op-ed about how education is changing at such a fast pace. That is incredibly difficult, and that is what this now secretary of education is going to have to keep up with. But one thing I see in Biden choosing him and being married to Dr. Jill Biden, who is at the community college level, actually just near my home here in Northern Virginia, is where she'll teach. But I think what I see here is him sort of saying Dr. Jill Biden's

going to steer the ship when it comes to the higher education stuff. We know that Biden really likes sweeping reforms, such as finding a way to make college tuition free for those earning under $125,000. I believe those families. He wants that for those college students. But I also see, again, this pick of Dr. Cardona is Biden saying, let's really focus on reopening. And that's all I've heard, Roland, from the longest time from the right, is reopen our schools, reopen our schools. And so that's why I'm sort of led to believe that this is a good approach.

This is probably the best pick for the moment. Candace. Well, I think that reopening schools is one of those things that continues to be hotly debated. As I said before, with the virus mutating so much, the virus is really in charge. But on the other hand, in terms of here's some of the things I want to see Dr. Cardona do. I want to see him go in and change what we see in the school system when it comes to diversity. And I mean that in terms of teachers. I mean that

in terms of what the classrooms look like. Because let's take New York City, for example. We see that the mayor has changed school choice and programs in that regard so that people can go where they want to, that they're not confined by maybe some type of geographic destination. They're not confined by the gentrification that's taking over so many neighborhoods, because when that happens, we still see that the classrooms are either mostly all white or mostly all black. And this doesn't make any sense because when that happens, we see the level of education change. So I think that he knows first and foremost what it means to be a minority in this country and what it means to

have a school teacher that looks like you, that talks like you, and that can actually instill, you know, words of wisdom and hope for someone that is a brown or black child in America. And that's going to change everything. We talked before about what do these newsrooms look like? It's going to change that because then we're going to start with younger people and we're going to tell them, you can be a journalist. We're going to tell them, this is what you need to do. So it all ties into each other. But diversifying these classrooms has got to be key. It just has to be key. almost 40% of the children who attend Connecticut's public schools are Black or Latino. Only 4% of the state's teachers are Black. Only 4% of the state's teachers are Black under a commissioner who is Latino. He was presented by the NAACP a well-thought-out strategy to create more opportunities that his team said would, in fact,

increase the number of Black and Latin people who currently teach within 12 months. And we were not able to get it done. So this is not me talking about what I think. This is me participating in those conversations over the past six months. And so simply because a person is of color, it does not mean that they're going to necessarily move forward the agenda of people of color. It is our obligation as people of color and our allies to make sure that we hold this brother to account, to make sure that he does what is necessary to create the route to becoming a teacher. So specifically, one of the things that we talked about is in Connecticut,

in order to become an elementary school teacher, you have to pass five practice examinations. Five. Why? When we know the majority of African American children go to schools in which they're not prepared for the state, for standardized assessments. And so when they become college students,

they don't become much more prepared. And when they graduate, they don't become more prepared either. So we need to push Dr. Cardona to put his policies where he says his heart is, which in this case, I have firsthand account that this is an area where he has not met the expectations of the community and could, either before leaving the state of Connecticut and or upon arriving in Washington, D.C., make it his business. This is not a charter conversation. It's not a magnet conversation. This is not even a school choice conversation. This is a equity, an equity conversation and one that is not being taken seriously throughout the rest of the country because too few people are in classrooms where the classes are taught by black people. I'll finish here. In 70 of the 149 school districts in the state of Connecticut, you can go and not ever have a black teacher. 70 in the state of

Connecticut where Dr. Cardona is currently commissioner. It's unacceptable, and it can be corrected. Dr. Perry, I hear you on the issues completely, and I think you bring up some good points about data. But what I read is that Dr. Cardona has been focused on equity issues in some ways. I don't think he's been entirely deficient because under his tenure, Connecticut became the first state to require high schools to offer black and Latino studies. It happened before he became commissioner, and it happened in the legislature. It had nothing to do with them. Well, thank you for clarifying because I read it was under his tenure and that he was also chairman of the state task force that examined achievement gaps in those populations.

So I'm not sure if I appreciate what you're saying. And I can tell you, Senator Doug McCrory, who is the education chair in the Senate and others, made it their business. These brothers and sisters made it their business to make Connecticut the first state in the nation to require black studies. But let's be clear, it's going to be taught by white people. So if 4 percent of the teachers in the state of Connecticut are black, then who's teaching it? Steve Perry, Margaret Fortune, I thank both of you for joining us. Thank you so very much. Thank you.

Thank you, Adam. Folks, a new report from the U.S. Air Force Inspector General shows black service members are more likely to be investigated, arrested, face disciplinary charges, and be discharged for misconduct. The report also found black members of the to why black service members are discriminated against that's kind of important folks gonna go to a real quick break we come back we're gonna talk with the black man who virginia beach police handcuffed to question him saying that

he may have been using a stolen credit card. The man was eating with his family. He said he was embarrassed. Well, he joins us next to share his thoughts, and we'll have his reaction to the police issuing an apology to him. That is next on Roland Martin Unfiltered, broadcasting live from Atlanta, where we are covering the Georgia Senate runoff races. We'll be back in a moment.

This generation, which gets so much inspiration from entertainment, you know, this generation is influenced. I mean, every generation has their influence. But I would argue by and large, when you talk about Harry Belafonte or you talk about, you know, how it was, you know, in the 60s, 70s, and even 80s, there was, you know, you had the entertainers, you had the church, you had the activists. In our day and time, you know, the church is somewhat losing its influence. Entertainment influence is growing. The activists are losing their influence. So where do most, you know, this younger generation go?

They go to entertainment, you know, and so the influencers entertainment can actually move the needle. And when you see people become active, I love how this younger group of people are saying, wait a minute, we don't like what just happened with Kavanaugh. We're going to do something about it. We don't like the fact that there's no gun control. We're going to do something about it. And I do think that as tragic as these events are, they are becoming more galvanizing to get this younger group of voters, which is so influential to get out and do what we know they can do, which is to help move the needle in a massive way. Virginia Beach police are investigating to see why officers detained an innocent black man at the Lynn Haven Mall on Saturday. In a video shared online, officers are seen handcuffing Jamar Mackey, who was eating with

his family in the mall's food court. Police escorted Mackey outside and said he matched the description of a suspect who was a black male with dreads that was wearing all black and was with a boy wearing red. This is why I shot this video. Folks, again, if this is triggering for you, please turn away. It's five minutes and 11 seconds. We wanted to show you the full video before we interview Mr. Mackey. Watch this.

What? Second row, you do this in public? Can't you walk outside? What did he do? He's one of my family. But he did nothing. Y'all got the wrong person. We don't even have a black truck.

A black truck, bro? We don't have a black truck. We just came to the mall. What did he say? But you know, I know. I recorded this. I'm taking it out of the club. Okay, but don't snap.

Are you serious? But what did he do? No, no. You want me to talk to you? You like to get me to tell something. Dave, don't snap. Take me to the front, bro. But what did he do? No, no. You want to let me talk? You like to get me to tell something. Dave, don't snap. It's fine. But what did he do?

Take me to the front now. Can you tell us? We just came with our family. We don't even have a black truck. No, get off me. Don't snap. Jamar, don't snap. Wait a second.

Come here. Come report this. Report. Follow them. Follow them. What? What? What did he do?

What are you doing? What are you doing? Jamar, what are you doing? Y'all fucking racist. We ain't here with our family. Are you serious right now, y'all? What? No, y'all, this is so fucking embarrassing. We are with our family. I got my baby here, a newborn.

Why do y'all have him? But what did he do? He didn't do anything. I don't got my ass. We're with our fucking kids. You don't do that. That is so you know what's going on in the fucking world today. We're with our fucking kids.

We don't do nothing with Ben. He didn't do nothing. Do you know how embarrassing that is? You can't fucking... It is the wrong person. We told you. You asked him about a black truck and we said we... Y'all didn't even give him a chance to explain.

You said, do you have a black truck? We don't even drive a black truck. That nigga's the right people to be in. We're all fucking kids. What am I... Okay, relax. No. You asked questions first, though.

But y'all are fucked up. What the fuck up? You don't do that. We're with our kids, but you asked questions first. You didn't even give him a chance to ask a fucking question. No. You can't expect him not to be upset. You can't expect him to be with our fucking kids in the mall.

That is so embarrassing. Are you serious? But you ask questions again if you don't expect a profile to send out to y'all. But ask him a question. What's his name? You didn't even ask him a question. Stop and come. I'm gonna see you.

You're gonna see me again. But you ask. You can't. But you don't do this with our kids. You're going to see me again. But you ask me again. But you don't do this with our kids. You think you'll forget that? You think my son will forget that? And I would like to explain to you. Please, Jamar, let him take them off.

Man, came out and asked me why I'm eating no worms? And I would like to explain to you. No, I ain't no explaining to you. OK. You're free to go, and I would like to explain to you what's going on. Yo, just get these fucking cuffs off me me and don't talk to me, motherfucker. Yes, sir. Come on, let's go.

I got your name. What's your name? Let's just go. We're leaving. All right, I'm going to see your ass again, bitch. It's all right. Just let me go. What's wrong with you, man?

I'm letting you on me. You ain't no president. It's fine. Don't move. I would like to explain to you what's going on. Wait. I don't give a fuck what's going on. Explain to me. I want to know. Explain to me what the cuffs on me. No, take him. Go ahead. Y'all go. Y'all go. Explain to me what happened.

I want to know. We got a description of someone that was using stolen credit cards, okay? That person is a black male with dreads and is wearing all black and was with a boy that was wearing red, okay? I can show you the case. He's wearing all black. So this is him right over here. Come on, yo. Another black male with red dreads.

But the thing is, y'all. I sincerely apologize. It was a complete place. I mean, y'all just, that was so embarrassing. If he was using a red dreads, I'm thinking of a fight for myself. Then I wouldn't have talked to him about it. I would have just taken him into custody and detained him.

I understand. I sincerely apologize. I sincerely apologize. It's fine. It hurts. Do you have a car? And that's how y'all do. It was definitely for your piping because things could have been handled a different

way. That's what we fighting for now. That's what y'all do to us. That's why we fight for this shit now. I understand. Can I have a call from somebody? This is how we get treated in 2020. In 2020. That's why we fight for this shit now. I understand. Can I have a call? This is how we get treated in 2020.

In 2020. That's how we get treated. You have the right to be upset sir. That's why we fight. That's why we fucking y'all up. That's alright babe. That's alright. That's wild bitch.

That's alright. It's fine. We leaving. I'll just, I'll take a name and a number. 2020 nigga. I somebody I can contact outside of this and buy a car. I'll take a car. I'll take a car.

I'll take a car. I'll take a car. I'll take a car. I'll take we leaving. I'll just, I'll take her name and her number. Tony, Tony nigga! I need somebody I can contact outside of this environment right now. So she can have my name, Sarge. Okay. What the fuck we march for? What the fuck we say Black Lives Matter? Black Lives Matter, that's what we say! Look at all y'all treatin' us!

And for the people! Like I'm the one who motherfuckin' own businesses. It's alright. Black lives matter, y'all see why we fight. Fuck niggas. Come on, Valerie. Thank you. That's how they do it in fucking 2020. We're joined by Jamar Mackey and his fiancee, Chantel Covel, who filmed the ordeal. First of all, glad to have both of you on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Jamar, I've got to start with you.

You hear the officers. We understand. Let me explain. And which is a lot different reaction we've seen from other white police officers. But the reality is this. You were there eating. And what folks don't get, it is traumatic, it is embarrassing, it's degrading to have a handcuff slapped on you, and no point did they even talk with you before doing.

Walk us through what happened when they walked up. Did they just simply walk up, see you, and say, we're cuffing you? You could say that. What basically happened, you know, I was sitting down, eating lunch with my family. We just sat down, and, you know, first it was an under, I don't know if he was a mall

cop or what, undercover, but the guy in the gray, you see him in the video, he comes to me and he's just asking, like, is that your black truck outside? I said, no, it's not my black truck. You got the wrong guy, man. I don't drive in a black truck. So he stays there.

I swear, I seen you driving that black truck, man. You sure about that black truck? No, I don't drive a black truck, sir. So as he's still standing there, I see the police coming through the door. So he's walked through the door. We make eye contact. The guy asks again, that's one or two I seen driving that black truck?

As soon as he said that again, I couldn't even answer him. The cop, he walks past him, and, you know, he looks at me and just grabs my arm and kneels down, grabs my arm, kneels down and says, don't move. You're under arrest. Do not resist. It didn't explain nothing to me. Only thing this guy, undercover guy, who wasn't even in uniform or nothing, he just asked me if I drove a black truck. So it's like, why are you arresting me? What's going on? What's up with the black truck?

Do I need to ask some questions for you? But why are you arresting me? He's still telling me, stop talking, don't move, don't resist. We'll talk when we get to the car. So that's what I'm telling him. Okay, well, take me to the front and please explain something to me. Because he did it in the whole food court with the whole, you know, it's holiday season. So the whole mall is looking.

It's a big crowd. The whole mall is looking. It's so embarrassing. Like, everybody's looking at me and my family. So that's when we walk outside and, you know, that's when the cops are basically saying, it's the wrong guy. As soon as I get outside and I look to the right and they have the suspect i guess who did it they have him to the right um like on the side of the building and they're just questioning him with with pen and pad he's not in handcuffs but come to find out he's the guy who did it

but i walk outside in handcuffs from a lieutenant with stripes on his uniform and everything but he put me in handcuffs with no questions you know he he put me in handcuffs with no questions. You know, he just put me in handcuffs. So, yeah, it was really embarrassing. It's like just watching that video, it just brings it back. Makes me feel like I'm right back at it, man. Me and my fiancé, my son, like, it was just a bad experience, man, like, terrible. Chantel, I want to go to you

because we hear you on the video babe keep it easy what is going through your mind are you thinking about other videos how this thing escalates

and knee in the back taser guns pulled out, being shot? Yes, that's exactly what I thought about first. It's almost like we have to, we get trained and, you know, we, it's almost like I felt like I learned how to, what to do in a situation from watching all these terrible experiences with people losing their lives and, you know, being wrongfully handled by the police. So as soon as I mean, I know this is my fiance. We live together. We have two kids together. I know everything about him. So I knew it was nothing else besides the mall that he had done, you know, that would have cost for his arrest. So instantly I'm like, OK, this is wrong. but let me, you know, I want you to be calm because any movement, any wrong movement you give them, the slightest bit of, you know, resistance or, you know, anything that you give them, I know where this can head, you know.

So my immediately I'm just like, you know, don't snap. You know, I want him to stay calm. I had our you know, we had a newborn and our oldest son with us. And I'm just like, this is not happening. You know, this is not about to end bad if I have anything to do with it. So, you know, it was very emotionally, it was very emotional for me. But I just felt like I had to be the strong person in this because he had no choice but to act the way he did, you know, and to react the way he did. So, you know, I just wanted to try and be that calm for him, even though, you know, I wasn't as calm as I could have been.

You know, that was what I was just trying to do is keep him calm. So things won't escalate. We hear and see your anger. And as somebody who has never experienced that, as somebody who has been pulled over by cops, luckily nothing has happened. I think what I felt the anger also was they did this in front of your children. Now, your kids, they now have a visual image, even though it was wrong, of cops slapping the handcuffs on you. That is something no father wants their children to have to witness, especially not in this age. Yesterday, we had Ben Crump on who said, since the

murder of George Floyd, 95 black people have been killed by cops. And that's since May. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, Roland, this is big because, you know, my son was sitting actually right next to me.

He was sitting right next to me. He seen the cop putting the cuffs on me. You might can't hear the video before the video. He's asking, what did he do? What did my dad do? Yeah, that's all he kept saying is, what did he do? That's all he kept saying. What did my dad do?

Why you arresting my dad in front of me? What did he do? You know, so, of course, it's traumatizing. It's traumatizing, like, he's going to always remember that. You know, he's going to always remember that. So, yeah, it's tough, man,

that it happened in front of my kids, that it happened in front of a place of business that I promoted my business at. I gave my business cards to, and at a place that my son, we drop him at. I gave my business cards to. And at a place that my son, we drop him off at that mall with his friends. And, you know, they go to Dave and Buster's in the mall. They go to Dave and Buster's, walk the mall, you know.

It's a place that he really goes to. We're right around the corner from the mall. And all this happens at a place where we go almost every week, at least every other week. So it's like, it's embarrassing for him, and it's traumatizing for him also. Yeah, that's definitely our main concern. What kind of... Chantel, go ahead, go ahead.

Oh, no, I was just saying that's our biggest focus, you know, with all of this was, you know, our son. You know, we have a small baby, but our 13-year-old son, because he's going to high school. And like Jamar was saying, you know, that's literally something the kids in our area do. They want to get dropped off at the mall, you know, go. We give them money. They go shop and they go play games at Dave & Buster's.

But now it's just like, you know, he's traumatized from the event. And, you know, it's just like we don't want to go back. You know, we passed by today. We're just like, hey, we didn't finish Christmas shopping. We look at the mall because it's on our way to our office. And we were just like, you know, I don't even feel like I'll ever want to go into that mall or any other mall again. And it's unfortunate because we're like five minutes away from the mall. It's just crazy.

Like just watching the video before we came on live with you. I just felt real emotional already because we just keep having to relive this moment. Of course it is viral and you know, it's around the internet, but you know, as we sit and have to watch through the entire video, I mean, I get the same exact feelings all over again. And, um, you know, I just wonder about the long deputy, the long, the long- term effects on my son. You know, so we just want to make sure he's OK. This was a statement released by Virginia Beach Police Chief Paul Newdigate. I just want to get your reaction to it.

This is what was released on December 19th. A Virginia Beach police officer was investigating a reported offense at a local shopping mall. He approached, subsequently handcuffed and escorted an individual who matched the description of the reported suspect out of the mall before releasing him a short time later. A video recording of the interaction has been shared on social media, and the VPPD has initiated a review of the incident to determine the propriety of the response in this manner. Quote, certainly anyone would be upset about being detained for something they didn't do, said Chief Newtigate. While the video shows the officer

stayed calm and respectful throughout the brief encounter, we must ensure the situation merits the response. We are gathering all the facts to evaluate the incident so we can address the concerns people have raised. Jamar? I mean, honestly, I don't accept it until I see change is done, you know, and, yeah, of course he say that officer was calm, but when he walked up on me and yanks my arm behind the chair, tell me don't move, don't resist,

that's not calm to me. That's not how you handle, that's not how you do as a police officer. I mean, it's not like I was, they suspected a murderer. They suspected a credit card theft. And you come behind me and just grab my arm. So it's like, yeah, you say that. Of course you got to look.

But I don't understand until I see change, until I see justice. Because I was born and raised in Virginia Beach. This doesn't just happen to me. It happens to everybody. I've been so much support. Thank you, everybody, for all the support. But it's just so much support because it happens to a lot of black males out here with dreads.

Black men period. Black men period. You said in the video, Jamar, y'all are going to hear from me again. Have you and Chantel, have y'all hired an attorney? Are y'all looking at legal options when it comes to

what happened to you? We're definitely looking into our legal options. There's a lot of questions that we have, a lot of questions. And as of now, no one has reached out to us. I mean, he made a statement, which to me, I believe the statement was only, because he had to make a statement at this point because there are so many questions. So, you know, I don't know. So real quick here, Chantel, Chantel, Chantel, Chantel, you're saying that you're saying that you have you and Jamar have not heard from the police chief. This was a statement that he released. But y'all have not heard personally from anyone with the police department. Or have you heard from anybody with the police department or have you heard from

anybody with the Virginia Beach City Council the mayor anyone um we did have one person um that you know reached out to us you know um to make sure that our family was good um Aaron Rouse um so he did check us check up on us to make sure, you know, that things were, you know, good. So we definitely appreciated him. But that's about it as far as the chief of police and the city of Virginia Beach. We haven't heard from them. No one reached out, but it can't be too hard to find my number if, you know, you guys found it, you know, like everybody else found it. But they haven't reached out, but I guess they expect me to look at their apology that they did live and

just expect that's reaching out they didn't reach out in and call didn't leave the voicemail they haven't reached out to my fiance so it's like when do you want is this don't really take you out serious honestly they haven't reached out at all Candace I quote my panelists here Cand Candace and Rena. Candace, first, do you have a question for Jamar and or Chantel? Well, less of a question and more of a statement in that I see a number of things going on here in terms of, you know, infliction of emotional distress, having your civil rights violated, and then you were detained

improperly. So there's a lot that you can go forth with, I think, and have an amazing case, as you should, because part of the trauma, when someone says to you, hey, just keep your cool, we're going to arrest you, that's often just a preface to many people being killed. So their trauma starts right away, and then it spreads in the family, not just for this generation, for generations to come. So I see a lot of force in the case that you have ahead of you. Thank you. Yes. Rena Shaw. Well, Candace brings up excellent points, I think. And I think as a parent as well, I mean, my heart just goes out to you all. And obviously that video for me was extremely disturbing. I just

really felt the pain of the moment because that's what catching events like this that are so that should be so rare in society. That's what these videos do. They open up sort of the experience. And I'm just, I'm wondering for the both of you, how do you really walk away from this? How, how do you, um, well, let me back up for a second and say, I mean, is there anything that really hits your mind and makes you think that you could have done anything differently in the moment? Communication wise, like, is there anything you would have said differently? How would you act in the future if this kind of thing, gosh, were to sadly happen again? Because I've had a tense moment and it was nowhere near this with law enforcement. And it sort of changed in my mind the gears of sort of what could I have said differently and then what will I say next time?

And I'm just sort of wondering if you guys have anything on that as far as that question you know when someone just walks up to you and throw handcuffs on you it's hard to pick your reaction you know you can't just say oh let me be calm or let me you know it just hits you there until it happens to you you wouldn't know so it's just like of course you know it's easier hits you there. Until it happens to you, you wouldn't know. So it's just like, of course, you know. It's easier said, you know, than done. Everybody wants to say, you know. And, of course, if you asked us today, if you planned, if you told us today that this was going to happen tomorrow,

that's one thing. But you don't know, you know. You don't know until you're in that situation. And I believe that he had every reason to act the way that he acted, you know, with the situation. Jamari, I did have a question. I'm wondering, in terms of what the police chief or anybody on the force could do to make you whole, I think a lawsuit's coming. But in terms of right now, what's the Christmas gift you want from the force to make you at least try to make some progress in dealing with this? Well, one of the main things is I just hope that that doesn't happen no more,

where, you know, it has to be some change where you can't just walk up on someone and put them in handcuffs without questioning them, especially when it's just a suspect. It's not that he's not you don't even know if it's him or not. So it'll make me, it'll make a big difference, and it'll make a change if like, if it's a loss, something that comes in handy that you can't do that to anyone. Black, white.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. You can't do that. You can't do that. Especially in front of your family. And then you don't have no mask on. It's COVID out right now. You have no mask on, and you in my face telling me, don't move, don't resist.

And, you know, so it's like, it should be laws. You can't do that, especially with COVID going on and everything going on right now. You shouldn't just be able to put your hands on somebody and put them in cuffs, especially put them in cuffs. And what kind of police work was this? I mean, if they thought that... Oh. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna say, what kind of police work was this? If they thought that, oh. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, what kind of police work was this?

They were looking for someone who was riding a black van, right? Or a black car. All they had to do was quietly follow if they chose from afar to see if he got in a black car. I mean, it seems like there were a lot of options that, again, once you kick off somebody arresting you and just getting those feelings going in terms of I don't know what's going to happen to me and I don't trust you because I've seen what happened to, you know, Ahmaud Arbery. Well, then I'm really I'm scared. And so the reaction that you had, I think, was completely appropriate. I don't think that anybody would have acted any differently because your life was in danger. But I think it was also very for police work. And I definitely agree with you. And I appreciate you and your support. Jamar, real quick, you said you have a business.

What kind of business do you have? Well, I have a matrix sanitizer solutions. I do professional sprays for COVID, flu, with every disease going on. So that's what I do right now. And my wife, she has her own home health care, Matrix Health Care. So we're just business owners.

We're just trying to prosper. Like I said, I pass cards out in that mall. A lot of people know me in that mall for passing cards. And me being in uniform in there, and you put me in handcuffs and walk out in that mall. A lot of people know me that mall for passing cards and me being in uniform in there. And you put me in handcuffs and walked me outside that mall in front of the whole mall. So it played a big part, you know, on me. That's why another reason why I looked at it like,

I'm old business owner, you know, you could at least question me or anything, you know? Yep. Well, Jamar Mackie, Chantel Cobble, I know a lot of media folks have been trying to reach out to y'all. I certainly appreciate y'all accepting our invitation to talk here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Thank you.

I know I saw one story, NBC News and others want y'all to talk. And so we appreciate y'all coming and talking to this black-owned show first. Thank you. We appreciate you as well. Love your platform. Thank you. Yes, thanks for reaching out. I appreciate it. Thank you. We appreciate you as well. Love your platform. Thank you. Thanks for reaching out. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Jamar Mackay, Chantel Coble. Thank you so very much. Thanks a lot. I want to thank Rena Shaw and Candace as well as Joseph Williams for being on our panel today. Great guest today, folks. This is why this show matters. The ability to be able to give folks like Jamar and Chantel an opportunity to share their story, not in a four, three-minute package

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This just in, the Columbus mayor announced that they have put on duty an African, excuse me, an officer who was involved in the fatal shooting of an African American. That news just coming down. And the officer's body, as you see in the headline, the officer's body camera is not turned on until after the shooting. We'll have more of those details on that tomorrow on Roland Martin Unfiltered. I'll see you guys tomorrow. Take care. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways.

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