#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Mich. Cop Kills Congolese Immigrant, AME Church alleged $90M funds loss, Black Women & Sarcoidosis

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

4.11.2022 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Mich. Cop Kills Congolese Immigrant, AME Church alleged $90M funds loss, Black Women & Sarcoidosis Eight years ago, the Lyoya family immigrated to the US to escape the violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo, only to be faced with the violent killing of their son by a Grand Rapids, Michigan police officer.  Patrick's father says the officer shot his son in the back of the head as he lay on the ground face down. The family is waiting for the bodycam videos to be released. Family attorney Ben Crump will let us know when that will happen. A New York arbitrator found the force used by two Buffalo police officers was justified when they pushed an elderly man down, causing severe brain injury. As President Joe Biden lays out his administration's plan to crack down on ghost guns, he doubles down on his stance to "Fund the police."And Vice President Kamala Harris highlights the administration's plan to lessen the burden of medical debt. A second lawsuit against the AME Church, claiming the worldwide denomination's retirement fund was mishandled, causing an alleged loss of $90 million in retirement fund investments. We'll talk to one of the attorneys who filed the latest suit against the church. April is Sarcoidosis awareness month. In tonight's Fit, Live, Win segment, we'll talk about what's being called the silent killer among African American women.   Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered and #BlackStarNetwork via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered Venmo ☛https://venmo.com/rmunfiltered Zelle ☛ [e-mail] Annual or monthly recurring #BringTheFunk Fan Club membership via paypal ☛ https://rolandsmartin.com/rmu-paypal/ Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox 👉🏾 http://www.blackstarnetwork.com #RolandMartinUnfiltered and the #BlackStarNetwork are news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Thank you. I feel revolutionary right now. Support this man, Black Media. He makes sure that our stories are told. Thank you for being the voice of Black America, Roller. I love y'all. All momentum we have now, we have to keep this going. The video looks phenomenal. See, there's a difference between Black Star Network and Black-owned media and something like CNN. You can't be Black-owned media and be scape.

It's time to be smart. Bring your eyeballs home. You dig? Today is Monday, April 11, 2022. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. Eight years ago, folks, the Lioa family immigrated to escape the violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo,

only to be faced with the violent killing of their son by a Grand Rapids, Michigan police officer. That young man's father says the officer shot his son in the back of the head as he lay on the ground face down. The family is waiting for the body camera videos to be released. We'll talk with family attorney Ben Crump when that will happen.

A New York arbitrator found the force used by two Buffalo police officers was justified. They pushed an elderly man down, causing severe brain injury. As President Joe Biden lays out his administration's plan to crack down on ghost guns, he doubles down on his stance to fund the police. Vice President Kamala Harris highlights

the administration's plan to lessen the burden of medical debt. A second lawsuit against the AME Church claiming the worldwide denomination retirement fund was mishandled causing an employee, first of all, alleged loss of $90 million. Yeah, we'll talk to one of the attorneys who filed the latest lawsuit against the AME Church.

In April, it's Sarcidosis Awareness Month. Tonight's Fit Live Win segment, we will talk about what's being called the silent killer among African American women. Folks, it is time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Let's go. Whatever the biz, he's on it.

Whatever it is, he's got the smooth, the fat, the fine. And when it breaks, he's got the spook, the fact, the find And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling, best belief he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for kicks He's rolling, yeah It's Uncle Roro, y'all Yeah, yeah

It's rolling, Martin, yeah Rollin' with Rollin' now He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best You know he's Rollin' Martin now Martin! Last week in Michigan, what should have been a routine traffic stop, folks, ended in the death of a Congolese immigrant. 70 years ago, 26-year-old Patrick Laiola fled from the violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Saturday, hundreds took to the streets demanding justice for the father of two who was allegedly stopped for a faulty license plate. His family is fighting to get the body cam video released to show how a Grand

Rapids police officer killed Patrick. With the help of a translator, Patrick's father, Peter, explains why he wants this video released immediately. I want the people, the video to be released from the beginning to the end because Patrick has been killed like an animal. and his story to be shown, who's representing the family. Ben, glad to have you back on the show. Unfortunately, all too often it's in cases such as this. First and foremost, what is the status of this body cam footage being released to the public? You know, Roland, I went to Grand Rapids, Michigan, right after you and I were at the historic swearing in of Judge Katanja Brown Jackson at the White House. And I guess in anticipation of me getting there, they announced that they will release the video by Friday, 5 p.m., which, as we all know, is leading into the Easter holiday.

Is that coincidence or is that something that they have premeditated? Well, anybody knows the news business, Ben, anybody knows in the news business, it's called the Friday dump. Anytime somebody dumps any news in the afternoon on Friday, it's to mitigate coverage because it's going into the weekend. It happens in the White House and Congress. When they drop something on Friday afternoon, Friday evening, it's so nobody will

pay attention to it. I know, Roland, it's going to backfire on them because what I do know about what occurs on this video from the people who have witnessed it is that it

is horrific. It is going to shock the conscience. It's going to make people be very emotional because as his father and his interpreter who watched the video said, and also the eyewitnesses who they took his cell phone rolling, there was a person who videotaped it on his cell phone that was in the car with Patrick.

They have taken his cell phone and won't give it back because of what is documented under that cell phone. And they say he is face down with his arms behind his back. Officer has his knee on his back. He inexplicably grabs his gun, point blank range, shoots him in the back of the head, and then jumps up. Mm. You know, Ben, it is one of the things that is so frustrating is that we witnessed last week, as you said, Judge Katonji Brown Jackson being confirmed for the Supreme Court.

I sat there and I listened to the whining of Senator Lindsey Graham, listened to the ridiculous comments of Senator Lindsey Graham. I listened to the ridiculous comments of Senator Tim Scott. And these are two individuals who promised the families of people who had been murdered by cops that they were going to move forward with the George Floyd Justice Act. And frankly, they failed. They absolutely failed to do so. And these things just continue to happen, continue to happen. And we're going to talk about in a second where President Biden at the White House today talked about fund the police. This is precisely why people say defund, because if you're not dealing with dealing with the immunity issue, if you're not dealing with any sort of repercussions, unfortunately, we keep dying, they keep shooting.

Yeah, and it keeps happening to our people. And, you know, you don't hear them making accidental shootings in the back and to the back of the head of white people, but it's almost like a cliche to black men. And I don't think it's a lack of training role. And I am beyond that. I think it's the implicit bias. It is racism. And we have to call a thing a thing. But in this case, it's so ironic that we were in the, at the sworn in and judge katanja brown jackson said her parents from

segregation and her to the supreme court in one generation and then president joe biden said when he was asked to define america in one word he said possibilities and i left that set and went to Grand Rapids, Michigan, to see that the possibilities of Patrick Leala were stolen from him, just like the possibilities of Trayvon Martin, of Breonna Taylor, of Ahmaud Arbery, all these young black people who keep getting killed by police or quasi-police people. And they're stealing our children's possibilities, but yet our white brothers and sisters don't seem to understand our sense of urgency. You're absolutely right. And, you know, one of the things that I said is that you had all this outpouring and reaction in the wake of the death of George Floyd, yet those same folks were not protesting.

They were not gathering or marching to put pressure on Republicans to stand up and support the George Floyd Justice Act. Yeah, it's almost as if, yeah, we did our part. We came out and marched in protest. Now we want to move on. We've done enough. But yet, since George Floyd, the six months in 2020 when he was killed, you had 100 more black people get killed by the police. And, Roland, I've lost count now how many people have been killed by the police

unjustly since George Floyd killed. And remember, Roland, we all thought George Floyd was going to be a turning point, that we finally were going to do something about the proliferation of police officers shooting and killing us unjustly. And yet there has been no deterrent based on my count. It is yet another opportunity for America to finally do something to get federal police reform in a meaningful way. Remember, we haven't had meaningful police reform on a federal level since President Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society legislation. We thought we were going to get it after Rodney King beating in the 1980s. Then we thought we were going to get it after Michaelney King beating in the 1980s. Then we thought we were going to get it after Michael Brown and Ferguson, Missouri

remember, Roland? You were there, hands up, don't shoot. And we didn't get it then, and we certainly thought we were going to get it after George Floyd. After we see yet another horrific video that is similar as we understand it

to Oscar Grant being killed at the Futville station. Hopefully, prayerfully, finally we should be able to get something done and if not, we have to vote him out of office. Last question for you, Ben.

Where in the hell is these executive orders that I've been hearing for months and months? After the bill imploded in December, I kept hearing, oh, the White House is preparing these criminal justice executive orders. I'm sorry. It's now April. It's been four months. Any idea what the hell's going on?

No idea, Roland. You know, you brother, you always have this scoop. And if you don't know what's going on, then none of us know what's going on. And I've talked with the people in the White House to say, what is the holdup? You know, for the George Floyd justice bill,

we had to rely on the Senate. But for these executive orders, we don't have to rely on anybody. President Biden can go stroke his pen today. Maybe he's waiting. Maybe he's waiting for the anniversary of George Floyd this year. I don't know.

Ben Crump, always a pleasure. I appreciate it. Keep us abreast. And we will be waiting to see him Friday when this video is released. I will let you immediately when the city manager tells us they're releasing the video, Roland. Thank you and the Black Star Network for covering our stories and our people. I appreciate it, Ben. Thanks a lot. Bringing my panel, Dr. Julian Malveaux, Dean of the College of Ethnic Studies, California State University, Los Angeles.

Dr. Amakongo Dabinga, Proporial lecturer, School of International Service, American University. Reverend Jeff Carr, founder of the Infinity Fellowship in Nashville, Tennessee. Julianne, I'm going to start with you. Another story, and I'm sitting there going, again, White House, what the hell is taking so long? The bill imploded in December. We knew that was the case beforehand. Frankly, they've had months and now months. We're now 16 months in to Biden's first term. You've got midterm elections happening in November. They better make a move. I mean, new polling shows out. His approval rating is an all time low. He's lost 25 points among young voters.

He has not fulfilled the promise of canceling student debt. You know, look, they are positioning themselves. Democrats are for a bloodbath. They've got to be able to show something. And frankly, they're dragging their feet. You know, Roland, I think that President Biden's learning curve must be very flat. He was the vice president under President Obama who did exactly the same thing that he's doing. You're sitting there trying to reason with fools. If you saw Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham in the Kataji Brown hearings, you know that those are just clueless fools. I mean, they're playing to their audience, but they don't have any sense. And so why he continues to try to make things

palpable for them or for Joe Manchin is a mystery to me. He is losing young voters. He did promise student loan relief, just like he, with a stroke of a pen, he could do three things, Roland. Number one, he could do national police reform just by writing it down. Doesn't have to go through the Senate. He tried. It didn't work. Okay, move on. Number two, he could forgive federal student loan debt up to a point.

He couldn't forgive it all. But looking at the law, he could forgive as little as $10,000 would make a difference to so many people. You have so many young people who have failed to launch because they have such crushing student loan debt. And the third thing he could do, which, as you know, I'm passionate about, is he could pen an executive order on reparations. He couldn't give people reparations money, but that's not what H.R. 40 asked for. It asked that there be a study of how reparations would be delivered. John Conyers pushed this for since 1989. President Biden talked about reparations on the campaign trail when it served him, when it served him.

And now he's gone radio silent. We all are celebrating the fullness of the moment. And I sure wish I could have been there on Friday at the White House lot. The fullness of the moment of our justice, of our new justice, you know, KBJ, we're going to call her that. We're all full of this excitement. But OK, Biden, you kept one promise. Why don't you keep some more? Today at the White House, Omicongo, that was a focus on the banning of ghost guns. A number of people were there. This has been a really important issue. Biden talked about that, but he also talked about this issue of fund the police.

Let's first play the ghost guns soundbite, and then let's play what he had to say about fund the police. Law enforcement is sounding the alarm. Our communities are paying the price. We're acting today. The United States Department of Justice is making it illegal for a business to manufacture one of these kits without a serial number. Illegal. Illegal for a licensed gun dealer to sell them without a background check. Starting today, weapons like the one used in Saugus High School and to ambush deputies with us that are here with us today are being treated like the deadly firearms they are.

And if somebody sells a ghost gun to a federally licensed dealer, for example, a pawn shop, that dealer must make the firearm and mark it with a serial number before reselling it. Look, I've said it many times. The answer is not to defund the police. It's to fund the police and give them the tools and training to support they need to be better partners

and protectors of our communities in need. And I've already made clear that I want cities, states, counties, and tribes to use some of the $350 billion we sent to them in the American Rescue Plan that I wrote in the first month to reduce gun violence, hire police officers for community policing, pay police overtime, purchase crime fighting technologies. They were

given the money. They can do it. Spend it. So you send them all that money and folks are still being shot and killed. And okay, I'm a Congo, I'm also tired of hearing this training crap.

Okay, how many more people? How many more deaths? How many more shootings? How many more times can we hear the excuse, training? Man, they all hurt, man. And they all hurt for different reasons when we see these shootings. Today in my class at American University.

This is actually the class where we covered Black Lives Matter and why Black Lives Matter came about. And I told the students that a lot of the videos I'm going to show are probably about three or four years old because I've gotten to the point where I can't watch any of the new ones to date. I still have not watched the George Floyd video because of what it does to us emotionally. And then I hear the story about Patrick Leoya, a brother from my parents' homeland from Congo, who fled a war region that one of the reasons they're fighting are for the electronics, the materials that are in the products that we're all using right now, the tin, the tantalum, the coltan, the tungsten that are in our laptops, our phones and all of that. So everybody's talking about Ukraine and the connection. Congo's connected

to what we're doing right now as well. And so when I see these stories from George Floyd, from Eric Garner to Patrick Leola, you know, you went to Liberia, Roland, in a spirit of Pan-African unity. And this is part of our Pan-African despair. Because like Malcolm X said, when they roll up on you, they don't care if you're Christian, they just care that you're black. They don't care if you're Muslim, they just care that you're black. So when he's talking about this money for training and all of that, when is it going to happen? Because it doesn't

matter where we're from, doesn't matter our religion, we are losing our lives by corrupt cops, and also we all know by cops who, many who are joining the forces who are coming in racist, who are coming in racist who are coming in with tendencies to get out there and kill us because they know with those uniforms on they can get away with it it's been documented they're in the military they're in the police force they

are all across this country where's the money for that where's the investigations for that and one of the challenges i have when this tape comes out it's like you got a family that's already traumatized by this experience, and then they have to be re-traumatized by begging the state to show their child's killing in the entire world. So yeah, you're right, Roland. Let's get that money for

firing officers, investigating racist officers who are on the force, and investigating officers who are incompetent, officers who have no business being there. Let's do some of that with some of this funding that is used for the police, because like Ben Crump said, we are the one who are losing our lives disproportionately

and in ways that are not happening to anybody else. The point I made there, Jeff, look, it comes down to policy changes. What do you have to show? And so what? So now we got to wait till May 20th. Today is the one year anniversary of Daunte Wright being shot and killed by Kim Potter. We know she got a couple of years in jail. The judge was so, oh my God, so apologetic to her as a result. But the real issue for me is people want to see action. And the reality is Democrats have failed to deliver.

It's a fact. They have failed to deliver. You can't move on the bill because of Senator Tim Scott and Lindsey Graham. Okay? But here's my question then, Okay. To Senator Chuck Schumer, 50-50. What, what, what? We can't, we can't break the filibuster of the George Floyd Justice Act? Is that what we're saying? Okay. And that's the case. Fine. President Biden, where are the executive orders? Where are they?

Indeed. Roland, you bring up some good points here. When we talk about circumstances and situations like this, it's not an issue of training. It's not an issue of training at all. When I'm dealing with people either in a counseling situation or a crisis management situation, whether that is a politician, whether it's an individual, whether it's a company or a nonprofit, there's always this space between the inciting incident and how you deal with it. What we're seeing here with our brother, we've been discussing it now, Brother Patrick, who lost his life. He fled the Democratic Republic of Congo and thought he could find safety in the United States.

And instead, a two-year-old child, a three-month-old child, and five siblings are left scratching their heads. And we're in that dark space between the inciting incident and the critical response. What I found is that in that little window, that's when people are behind closed doors knowing that they have completely screwed up. So they're finding a way to try to cover this. It usually starts when we're talking about hometown folks here, it starts with character assassination, trying to search and dump a person's social media to try to determine them to be a criminal

or a threat that is justified in terms of the situation of taking them out and down. We've seen this replay over and over again. But when we look at the end result, I always tell people, you do not judge based on what is coming out of people's mouths. You judge based on action. You judge based on provable facts. When we look at this situation, we can't say that the police aren't getting training. The question is, what are they trained to do? We're seeing the same things happen over and over again. That means that they're very well trained. They're trained with a philosophy that says black lives do not matter. They're trained with a philosophy that says to cover up. They're trained with a philosophy that says when you get a body cam as a law, find a way to manipulate it, hold it and edit it so that you can still come

out of this without any responsibility for the lives that you've taken. So when we talk about defunding the police, when we're talking about refunding the police, we're talking about funding the police, we heard that from President Biden today, he's walking a very fine line. He's knowing and his advisors know that 50%, 51% of young people age 18 to 24 have voted in the election recently. But amongst that group 65 to 74, you're talking about 76% of the people voting. These are people who are property owners. These are people who want the police to come.

So the messaging for them is, we don't want to get rid of the police. This is why President Biden is dancing in between these topics. It all comes down to one thing, though. We're tired. Everyone is tired of the current training. And if you're going to provide some kind of funding, you've got to change the paradigm. If you continue to fund the police in the same way that they are funded now with the same training, that's training we do not like. It's training we do not want because it disproportionately affects us in a negative way. It's just, I mean, it's ludicrous to see what's going on. And again, another family has to bury a loved one because of the actions of the police.

And so we certainly cannot wait to see what happens when that video is actually released. All right, folks. Vice President Kamala Harris says the Biden administration's new plan to reduce the burden of medical debt on Americans is taking shape. The plan will hold medical providers and debt collectors accountable for harmful practices, reduce the role medical debt plays in determining whether Americans can access credit, which will open up new opportunities for people with medical debt to buy a home or to get a small business loan. Also help more than half a million low-income American veterans get their medical debt forgiven. Also inform consumers of their rights. The VP said this overhaul will help those struggling to manage an illness as well as their finances.

In fact, one in three adults in our country struggles with unpaid medical bills. One in three. And of those adults, a disproportionate number are black or Latino. I have met so many people in so many communities in our nation who are struggling with this burden. Many of whom are managing an illness or an injury at the same time. And who stay up at night, staring at the ceiling, wondering if they will ever be able to pay off their medical debt. No one in our nation should have to endure that. No one in our nation should have to go bankrupt just to get the health care they need.

And that is why our administration is prioritizing this issue of medical debt. All right, folks, going to a break. When we come back, more on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Don't forget, folks, to support us in what we do. Download the Black Star Network app on all available platforms, Apple Phone, Android Phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire Stick, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. You can also, of course, support us

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Roland at rolandmartinunfiltered.com. Folks, I'll be right back. On the next Get Wealthy, did you know that the majority of households headed by African-American women don't own a single share of stock? No wonder the wealth gap continues to widen. Next on Get Wealthy, you're going to hear from a woman who decided to change that. I have been blessed with good positions, good pay, but it wasn't until probably in the last couple of years that I, invested in myself to what I should be doing wi

to productively use it ri on Black Star Network. Pu your seat. The black tape car here on the Black Star Network. Every week, we'll take a deeper dive into the world we're living in. Join the conversation only on the Black Star Network. When did you know that this is what I wanted? I think right after high school,

because in high school, I was in all the plays. I was always funny, but I didn't know nobody would pay me for it, you know? And then I saw Eddie Murphy. This was like 84 when I saw Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy was the hottest thing in the whole wide world. Not just comedy, but anywhere. He saved Saturday Night Live.

If he hadn't started that, that show would be gone. He had done 48 hours, trading places, his first Beverly Hills cop could wear the hell out of a red leather suit, and he wasn't but 23 years old. He was rich enough to pee cream, and he got all that telling jokes. I said, shit, I've been funny my whole life. I didn't know people gave you money like that,

so I went and got some Red Fox albums. I went down to my mama's basement, where I was living anyway, and I stood in that mirror and played them albums and them jokes until I could tell them like they were mad. Wow. And that started me doing jokes. And then I went and did comedy in the street. I was standing on State Street,

tell jokes and pass my hat, and white folks would come up and just hand me money. And I liked it. My name is Charlie Wilson. Hi, I'm Sally Richardson-Whitfield. And I'm Dodger Whitfield. Hey, everybody, this is your man Fred Hammond, and you're watching Roland Martin, Virginia, on April 3rd.

The 17-year-old is 5 feet 9 inches tall, weighs 160 pounds, with brown eyes and black hair. Xavier was last seen wearing blue jeans, red shoes, and a gray shirt. He has a tattoo of the name Zella on one arm and an unknown tattoo on his other arm. Anyone with information on Xavier Galloway should call the Newport News Virginia Police Department at 757-247-2500. 757-247-2500. 757-247-2500.

An arbitrator has ruled that two Buffalo cops did not violate the department's use of force guidelines when they pushed a 75-year-old protester to the ground two years ago. Folks, do you remember this video? He is freaking out of his ear. He's freaking out of his ear. He's freaking out of his ear.

Get a medic. Gino, go back to this cute video, please. Spent about a month in the hospital with a fractured skull and brain injury after the officers showed the older man, uh, show the older man, uh, during the June, 2020 protest, a New York arbitrator said the level of force was justified because the protester refused to comply with orders to leave the scene, was acting erratically, and had walked directly in front of one of the officers. Ironically, Gugino was protesting against police brutality after the death of George Floyd. Jeff, when you see that video there, when you see that video, here's the reality.

The cops don't have to shove the guy back. They don't. They don't actually have to. There's a way to handle it. First of all, look how many damn cops we talking about. Right. A wall of policemen. And I'm going, you don't have to actually do it that way. What we're seeing when we see this video, I'm also uniquely triggered by this video. I was 20 years old and I was working camera as part of an internship at a festival called Summer Lights here in Nashville, Tennessee.

And I'd gotten off work, and I was following a crew of young white men who were walking off the street. Motorcycle policemen were clearing the street, and so I simply followed the white guys. One of them pointed to me and said, You. You can't walk that way. And I said, I'm walking with my crew. He said, Turn around.

And I said, Well, we're just right here together. That guy jumped off that motorcycle along with 14 other policemen, and they snatched me and turned me every which way but loose. I'll never forget that. This was prior to the age of litigation. But when I look at that video, and I see Brother Gorgino, and I see what happened in that space, and I see that it was completely unnecessary for those policemen to even lay a hand on a 75-year-old man. I recognize and realize something that I said a few minutes ago. It's a part of the culture. It's a part of the culture. It is terrifying to

live in a space where you feel as if you have no rights, you have no protection from people who are supposed to be there on your side, looking out for you, who are agents of law and order. And yet in this terror, we still seek justice from a society that has basically said we don't care about elders. We don't care about young people. We care about the status quo. Seeing that broke my heart. It broke the heart of everyone who's seen it. I like Brother Dr. Omikongo. There are some times where I just stop watching the videos because I don't want to place that trauma into my consciousness. And yet those of us who are in spaces like this have to absorb this so that we can find ways to legislate change. This is a travesty that these officers who were clearly caught on tape are not being held accountable, but it speaks to the state of the society that we live in that is

in need of change, that we have created a culture where it's okay for police to consider themselves judge, jury, and executioner. And that really is the thing right there, Julian, culture. And this society operates, and let me just be real clear, this white society operates that cops, they can do whatever they want. People yell, oh, we want to be safe. But also what's fair and just, that unfortunately is also part of the issue here.

You know, I watched that and I cringed. The man is 75 years old. What was he going to do? And as Jeff said, they did not have to put their hands on him. They didn't have to push him. You see the blood seeping out of the back of his head. Just such a horrible visual. But what I would also say is that these brutes have been trained to be brutes and bullies. They have been trained that there are no consequences to their behavior, even as they execute that

behavior on each other. I would take a minute to do a shout-out to a brother. He passed a few years ago. They was Aaron Barnes. He was one of the first Black police officers in San Francisco, and his daughters are dear friends of mine. And I remember, Mr. Barnes, you'll laugh, Roland, we'd be slow dragging a brother.

Mr. Barnes would come into the party with his gun on and say, I'm coming for my daughters and that Malvo girl. Brother would drop you. You'd be sitting on your booty because he just dropped you. But he would tell us stories about what he endured, people putting feces in his shoes. They did not want black officers because when the black officers had integrity, they would say something about brutal behavior. And here's the problem.

No one is saying anything about brutal behavior. That an arbitrator would say that that's okay suggests that we are all, and that was an old white man. That wasn't an old black man. That was an old white man. That anybody who stands up to injustice is subject to being beaten or killed or anything else. The man had a fractured skull. I mean, as I approach my 70s, I ain't there yet, but as I approach, I think about stuff like that. How do you do an elder like that?

And they did it because they knew that they could. They knew they could get away with it. And Joe Biden needs to take that video to his United States Senate when he does something and signs an executive order and said, this is why I'm signing an executive order. All wusses and wimps won't do anything about the way that people, not just black people, mostly black people, but not just black people, are being killed on the streets because cops can't control themselves. They have been trained to be bullies. And that really, again, what is established is, Omicongo, is that, hey, man, whatever they want to do, they can do.

You know, I'm reminded of a story, picking off of Dr. Marvaux's point about bullies, of a teacher who said she went down to the police station to see if any of her former students were there. And she said she was amazed. She said she never saw any of the students who were bullies that became police officers. She only saw her former students who were bullied.

And it's really amazing, you know, what people will do to go and be able to get power they never had before in their lives. And we are seeing that demonstrated with these examples. And so with our cases, we see people, oh, they had a cell phone, oh, they had a book, oh, they were sleeping. And as we all said, when it comes to fighting police injustice, they don't care who you are at the end of the day, and they will use any example that they can to tear you down. So as I said, phones, they'll say whatever you had for Eugenio, I'm meeting. They said after the force was applied to him, appears to have not been able to keep his balance for reasons that might well have had as much to do

with the fact that he was holding objects in each hand or his advanced age. Like Jeff was saying, like Dr. Marbeau was saying, the respect for the elders, it doesn't matter. It doesn't exist here. And as you can see, they perfectly pushed their hands out to push him backwards. And let's also not ignore the fact

that at least for those first 10 seconds after we saw that, no care came towards him to try to help him in any one way, shape, or form. One of the cops bent down and the other guys pushed him to keep going forward. Nothing was happening. When it comes to fighting, you can see it.

When it comes to fighting this, if you're Black, they're going to come for you. If you're White, they're going to come for you. If you're white, they're going to come for you. If you're Latino, they're going to come for you. That's why we got to continue to have these united fronts, like him being out there, like with Patrick Leolia. And we saw that multicultural movement out there fighting for this.

We have to realize at some point, we're all in this together because just like with everything else, whether we're talking about unemployment, whether we're talking about crime, when you don't treat the issues that affect us, they eventually affect everybody else. We got to get it together now. Jeff. Yes. Hello, indeed. Oh, yeah, indeed. Well, I think I want to piggyback on something that both of you all said. When we talk about this culture, what kind

of culture we have in America, I tell people, you got to recognize when we talk about culture, the root word of culture is cult, right? There's a specific cult that we're talking about. It's a cult mentality. And in this cult mentality, blue matters. In this cult mentality, elders do not matter, whether they're black or white. In this cult mentality, black lives do not matter. In this cult mentality, we can operate with impunity and know that the system is always going to back us up. Instead of demonstrating what a ghost gun can do and putting it together for the public as President Biden has done, we need to demonstrate how we are willing as a country to break open this cult and open it up to a new culture where everyone is treated equal. And that starts, as Dr. Malvo said a few

minutes ago, with the stroke of a pen. When we begin to see these executive orders come down, we begin to see people held accountable for their actions, we will begin to change the cult that leads to a negative culture as it relates to the rest of the people who are living in this country right now. Indeed. All right, folks, I got to go to a break. When we come back, actually, I'm going to do this show before we actually go to the break. When we come back, I want to talk about what's happened with the AME Church. They hit with another lawsuit saying that $90 million in retirement investments have been squandered.

But speaking of being squandered, hundreds of employees of the now defunct Black News channel say they have not been paid by the network's owners. Last month, DNC filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and ceased operations. Well, they sent an email out last Thursday to all of the employees and their former employees, telling them that they would not be paid for the week of March 19th to the 25th as promised. Quote, unfortunately, by virtue of filing for Chapter 11, we must be granted permission by the court to pay anyone, including the remaining earned but unpaid wages to all of you. So though it was communicated that unpaid wages would be paid on April 8th, we have been informed that this cannot occur.

Our commitment to reconcile this through the required legal process is ongoing and absolute. Be assured that this procedural matter has our total attention and we will stay in close contact with you as this process is completed. We do recognize the hardship this delay may cause and thank you for your continued patience during what is understandably a challenging and difficult time for everyone. Now, here's what changed here.

They planned on paying folks those final two weeks and shutting the company down. But because, according to them, guys, if y'all have the actual, the rest of the statement, it'd be great if you actually could pull that up. Well, they actually said that because they have received interest from people in the assets of the company, that's why they have to actually take this course. And in fact, let's see here. I'm going to read it right here. So here's the beginning of the statement. This is the middle part. This is the beginning of the statement. March 25th, Human Resources communicated to you all our intention to ensure that all employees

would be compensated in full for all earned but unpaid wages through Friday, March 25th. That intention is unchanged. At the time of that communication to you, the plan for BNC was to wind down the business and close its doors completely. However, as news of the shutdown began to spread in the media, several credible parties expressed their interest in purchasing BNC.

So in the name of exploring these inquiries, our restructuring strategy shifted. With the approval of the board, BNC made the decision to file a voluntary bankruptcy reorganization proceeding under Chapter 11 in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court. It says the decision to file for Chapter 11 gives BNC the best opportunity to stabilize its business operations and pursue strategic alternatives for the benefit of its creditors and other stakeholders, including a possible sale of its assets and business. In short, while not the outcome any of us envisioned for the network, Chapter 11 is in the best interest of the future of BNC. So it looks like, again, they might try to sell their assets or figure something along the out.

So we'll certainly keep you guys abreast of what's going on. But here, coming up next, we're going to talk about the AME Church. Hit with a lawsuit regarding losing $90 million in investments. We'll break that down for you. Folks, one of the reasons why I ask you all to support us in what we do, unlike Black News Channel, we ain't got those problems. We actually are in the black, and you make that possible as a result by your support of this show, allowing us to be able to methodically build organically grow in order to be able to hire people and to cover more news.

So please support us by contributing to our Bring the Funk fan club where every dollar you give goes back into this show. Money orders or checks can be mailed to PO Box 57196, Washington, D.C. 20037. Cash app is dollar sign RM unfiltered. That's the only cash. Cash app is Dollar Sign RM Unfiltered. That's the only cash app we have, Dollar Sign RM Unfiltered. PayPal is R. Martin Unfiltered. Venmo is RM Unfiltered. Zelle is Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com.

Folks, if you do not see your name on our list, send me an email. Please, don't send me a DM. Don't send me something on Facebook Messenger. I don't check all those things, okay? Send me an email. Just go to RolandSmartin.com, click contact, send me an email if you don't see your name on our listing as well, okay? I appreciate that. We'll be right back. On the next A Balanced Life, April is Autism Awareness Month. We will be having a very special conversation on education, advocacy, and working in that space. Whether you have a child on the spectrum or not, this is a space for you. This is a conversation you don't want to miss.

Join me, Dr. Jackie, on A Balanced Life on Blackstar Network. We're all impacted by the culture, whether we know it or not. From politics to music and entertainment, it's a huge part of our lives. And we're going to talk about it every day right here on The Culture with me, Faraji Muhammad, only on the Black Star Network. I'm Chrisette Michelle. Hi, I'm Chaley Rose, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, folks. I saw this story in the Atlanta Journal of Constitution and it certainly jumped out at me in a huge, huge way.

And that is what's happening with the AME Church. A second lawsuit has been filed against the African Methodist Church for allegedly mishandling retirement funds. The AARP Foundation has, first of all, they've joined as co-counsel with the law firm Cantor & Cantor in the Maryland lawsuit against the AME church. The suit was filed on March 22nd

in U.S. District Court in Maryland. It is the second against the nomination. The first was out of Tennessee. They say that $90 million has gone. It's been improperly used. Joining us now from Philadelphia, attorney Scott Limpert, a partner in Cancer and Canter. Scott, glad

to have you here. So what's going on here? You have a suit in Maryland, suit in Tennessee. What's the deal? What are y'all alleging that the AME Church or who handles their investments has done? Well, it is apparent, in fact, the church leaders have conceded that they allowed a single individual, one of the defendants that we list, Jerome Harris, who was the executive director of the Department of Retirement Services, essentially giving him full discretion to invest the retirement funds of nearly 5,000 clergy members without any oversight whatsoever. Whoa, whoa, whoa. One person?

One person. So not, I mean, normally when we talk about folks who handle pension funds or investments, normally you have a board, normally you have fund managers, normally you have people who do this professionally. And so was this individual, did he have his own firm or was he employed by the AME denomination?

Yeah, he was employed by AME. He was a reverend and elected by the Council of Bishops who govern the church. Did he have any financial background i don't believe so that that's one issue that uh the the part of the structure um is that uh these folks are elected and so you're right roland that typically the structure for pension plans you're talking about millions and millions of dollars. This plan had, before they learned of what this guy had done, they had over $126 million in the pension fund. The way it's normally structured is that there's a committee. There's maybe one chair of that committee who are fiduciaries, who are responsible and have a duty to all of the plan it's called, that they would invest that money prudently, not in some kind of risky type of investments, which is indeed what happened here. They do have a committee. That committee did nothing. They, that's just the bottom line.

They just did nothing. It's really amazing. I've been litigating cases like this for over 20 years, and I've never seen such mismanagement of a pension plan. So you said they had $126 million in their pension fund. Right. So what happened with this $90 million? What was it spent on? Right.

So the clergy who are plan participants in this plan were told that the money that they were relying on for their retirement was invested in safe, secure investments that is no longer in existence, a promissory note with a solar company, and believe it or not, an investment in undeveloped land in Florida. And again, the church leaders and the committee that's supposed to be responsible for this money for these for the retirements of thousands of church clergy and others, had no idea that the money was not actually invested in safe investments. Instead, it was invested in these other vehicles that were completely imprudent, highly risky. So 90 million was lost? Correct. So only36 million is left in the retirement fund? That's right. And what the church leaders have told the retirees and other people that were participants in this plan is, you know, your value that you saw in your statements, your value of your retirement savings,

is cut by 70%. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up. So let me just... So y'all are alleging, based upon your lawsuit, and you say they've admitted to this, that the AME church allowed one person, what's his name? Jerome Harris. Jerome Harris. He was the former executive director of the Department of Retirement Services. We sued two people. They said he was a pastor. Where is he from?

He's from Memphis, Tennessee. So Reverend Jerome Harris is over this department. It's an elected position. Normally, when it comes to handling money, you don't elect people. Like, look, I'm a three-time board member of the National Association of Black Journalists. We have a treasurer. We also have an accountant. We also have a finance director.

And we got somebody who ordered our stuff. But they ain't handling our books. I'm sorry, they're not handling our investments. So he, by himself, made the decision. Have y'all seen the paper trail where he decided to invest in these different entities? Right. So we just filed a lawsuit. So discovery hasn't begun. We're going to learn a lot more about what's going on once we get into discovery.

There is a federal investigation, we understand, as well. We don't know much about that. That's something else, obviously, that we will learn as we litigate this case. So there was $126 million in the AME Church's pension. Right, right. Now it's 36. And the important thing is, is that. Think about it, you're you're working right for the church, you're serving the church, you're a servant of the church and you get statements every quarter. OK, and that statement shows you how much is in your retirement account. And it says on the statements, Sumatra. Okay. And Reverend Harris, in fact, every four years, there was, there's a quadrennial convention. And he told everyone, hey, look, these funds are invested safely and securely in Symmetra.

And you're getting these statements and you're relying on this and serving the church, knowing that you have a safe, secure retirement when it's time to retire. And now you're looking at the amount that you had, that you were relying on to live a life during retirement that is now two-thirds less than what you had. So if you had $100,000 in there, you got $30,000.

Right. Well, $33,000, yeah. Wow. Wow. Reverend Jeff Carr, you get the first question. This is unbelievable. Yeah, this is absolutely unbelievable. Considering the long history, going back to Richard Allen, of an institution that is over 200 years old, I think 1787, 235 years old, and has such strict protocols. When we think about Richard Allen and the legacy that he's got here, my wife came up AME. There are very strict protocols and history in the AME church, going back to her grandfather, who was historiographer of the church. We hear about so many controls that are in place in institutions like this. It is surprising and shocking that I hear that this was entrusted to one individual without a

check and balance. But Attorney Lambert, could you just describe to people who may say, why isn't $90 million just sitting in a bank drawing interest? Explain how retirement funds are traditionally invested to grow those funds for people who are in need of them. Right. So the way it works is that there's a trust of money. And in this instance, the plan required the church to make contributions for each plan participant, each pastor and elder and college president and all those folks that are members of the employees of the church that participate in the plan. The church then funds for each person a certain percentage of their salary. It goes into a trust.

That trust is then invested by, again, the way it's supposed to work, by a committee. And in fact, the way the church has something called the Doctrine and Discipline that it publishes every four years, right after the quadrennial. And it lays out, as you're saying, lots and lots and lots of rules and regulations and things that have passed and all of that and give direction to clergy and to members of the church. And there is a section on retirement in that doctrine and discipline and it lays all of this out and it you know it indicates that there is indeed a committee that's that's governing this trust and investing it pursuant to federal law that governs pension plans.

That was not done here, despite the fact that the doctrine and discipline said, indeed, that that was the way it was supposed to work. So the law requires that these fiduciaries, these people responsible for the trust, invest the money prudently and loyally, meaning that they invest it in a way that takes on reasonable risk and earns reasonable returns, and also is invested with the interest of the plan participants, only the interest of the plan participants, only the interest of the plan participants, right? So you can't, for example, invest in something that benefits some of the fiduciaries, right? So, you know, if you have a business, you can't invest necessarily the money

into your own business because perhaps that's not being loyal to the plan participants. Julianne. Oh, this is such a hard story. I am a member of Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C. And when I saw that this was on our list, I called my pastor and said, bro, what's going on? And he's as devastated as anyone else is. They are required. Pastors are required.

If they were appointed by a bishop, they're required to put 12 percent of their salary into this pension fund. It's not voluntary. And the church doesn't do it. Those individuals support that money. Now, the church may match it, but that means that this brother, who's about 50, has been saving, you know, for 20 years, and he's got to have nothing, little or nothing to show for it. I'm interested in this one-man ban, Mr., I wrote it down. Anyway, the one-man ban, Harris. Dr. Harris, yeah. Well, I would call him irreverent, because if he did that, there's no reverence that belongs in front of his name. But, Brother Attorney, what is his background?

Roland really asked the right questions when he talked about the NABJ board. All of our voluntary agencies, organizations, 501c3s have treasurers, but there's always an accountant. There's always someone else. The treasurer is not writing a check. The treasurer is not saying, let's go buy some vacant land in Florida. And the question I would have about that is, did his brother own that land or his daddy or someone like that? Because this seems highly imprudent. But what more can you tell us about his background? Was he craving? I don't know a tremendous amount, frankly, about him.

Certainly, you know, he was responsible as a fiduciary, as the director of the Department of Retirement Services, to prudently invest these funds. And he clearly didn't do that. But again, it's a larger structure. Oftentimes, companies will have a plan and have a committee. They're not all necessarily investment wizards. They come from a variety of backgrounds, but they all take an oath, essentially. They have a duty under the law to make sure that those plant assets are invested properly, that those plant assets are invested in a way that will grow, but not in a way that is in risky or conflicted

kinds of investments. And that clearly wasn't done here. I hope, Roland, I just would, please don't hold this against the AME Church. Hold this against these individuals. The AME Church is Frederick Douglass' church. No, no, no, No, no, no. That's why I'm talking. No, no, no.

Okay. First of all, again, the AME Church has released a statement. So let me just do this. Let me read the statement. So please pull the statement up. This was released October 2021. The Department of Retirement Services has reported a material loss in the value of one or more of its departmental investments. A comprehensive audit and review of the department,

the subject investments, and the fiduciaries overseeing the retirement funds and other accounts is underway. The review is being conducted by an independent law firm and accounting firm. A report with detailed findings has been requested and will be made available publicly upon its receipt. The independent report will indicate whether the subject investment had any impact to retirement funds.

The independent report will indicate whether the subject investment had any impact to retirement funds. The independent report will indicate whether the subject investment had any impact to retirement funds. The department has advised that all life insurance coverage provided to participants has not been affected by the value of the departmental investments,

which are outside the life insurance program. As a result, life insurance beneficiaries will receive the full value of any valid policy claim. Pending the receipt of the report and findings, the department will hold all new deposits in a standard checking sweep account only.

Bishop E. Ann Henning Byfield, President and Council of Bishops of the AME Church. Bishop Adam J. Richardson, Senior Bishop. Bishop Ronnie Brailsford, the Secretary. Here's the question that I have for you, Scott. One, that was October 2021. Has that report been released? Is it done, to your knowledge?

Not to my knowledge, no. All right, so here's why I have to disagree on this one, Julian. Yes, if what the lawsuit is alleging, let's be clear, if what the lawsuit is alleging, let's be clear, if what the lawsuit is alleging, that $90 million of $126 million was invested in risky ventures leading to losses,

I absolutely will hold the AME responsible because leadership is responsible for leading. And if this lawsuit, if the federal investigation, I would assume, Scott, you also have state investigations going on. You know, we don't know. Again, the investigations that we're aware of is from communications from the church itself, right? But they have not indicated any more detail. So we don't know what body, we know it's federal, at least one of them anyway is federal, but we don't know what agency is investigating and we don't know kind of where

it is in the process. Again, those are things that we learn during the litigation. So, so the thing here is that, and again, the allegation that Scott is making based upon the lawsuit is that they allow one person to make these investments, meaning, just correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, that this was a situation where this one person took it to, this one reverend decided on his own what to invest in, and there was no one overseeing him, no procedures in place, that he and he alone could decide where the money could be spent.

Yeah, and you know, Roland, you're exactly right on a lot of what you just said about the church's culpability here, Yeah. And, you know, Roland, you're exactly right on a lot of what you've just said about the church's culpability here. And they are named as a defendant, as is the Council of Bishops, as is the general board of the church. And it's because they have a fiduciary duty to oversee what the Committee of Trustees, this committee that we've been talking about that did nothing, the committee and Reverend Harris were doing with the pension fund, with the money in the pension fund.

Nobody did anything. That's what's so amazing to us is that it was a complete abrogation of their duties to protect all of their clergy's retirement savings. And that's the whole point that, again, if the allegations laid out in this lawsuit are true, I absolutely must hold leadership accountable. When I sat on the board of NABJ, there were things that would come up and I would tell other board members, you have a fiduciary responsibility, that when you are elected, this is what our objective is. We cannot sit here and go out. Sorry, I didn't realize that we were losing money. Oh, we got executive director. Why we wouldn't know our job as a board to know I was on the executive committee with the personnel committee. It was our responsibility. And when you're talking about, you got $126 million. We're not talking about

a pension fund of $1.2 billion and you've got money invested. The reality is you want to put your stuff in smart investments so you never get caught. Definitely stuff that's not really, really, really high risk that will jump out. Scott, you also alleged that it was a venture capital firm that's now out of business. It was called Motor first of all, Motor Skill Ventures Group. Yeah. Who ran that?

We don't know. We don't know. I mean, there's nothing, you can't find anything about them. Again, we'll learn about it. Presumably the church has information about this, but you go on the internet and they're just closed. Also Symetra, who is that? How long have they been around? Who runs that?

So that's been around for a while and they provide annuity products and they do provide annuity products for pension plans. So the money, of course, so what I'm reading here, the money was moved out of Symetra's annuity investments, which this is established firm, safe, their products. Right. The money was taken out of Symetra and moved to this MotorSkill Ventures Group. At some point, we believe that to be the case. And this Financial Freedom Fund, LLC, the manager of a private real estate investment trust? Right.

Who is that? Again, that's a continuing entity. And what the plan did was, through Freedom Fund, they provided a promissory note to a solar company called Day and Night Solar. why a fiduciary would do such a thing with the retirement savings of their clergy. That's something we have to learn while we litigate this case. But it's clearly imprudent. It lost at least a third of its value. Wow. This is Bishop Jerome Harris, who used to run this department.

Am I reading this correct, that also the office was cleared out and the only thing left there were paperclips? Yeah, so that's a statement from Reverend Miller, who took Reverend Harris's place as executive director of the Department of Retirement Services. So, again, we're not sure about the timing of all of this. We don't know how long these investments were made, how long ago these investments were made. But after Reverend Harris left and Reverend Miller took over the department, he literally said that they went into the office, the executive director's office, which is now his office. It was Dr. Harris's office, and it was cleaned out.

There was nothing in there. Just some paperclips is what he said. Wow. It's amazing. I've been doing this for over 20 years and I've never seen such mismanagement by an entity in which allow for one individual to control all of all of the trust funds and invest it any which way he or she wanted. And never have I seen where, you know, there are no documents that the employer has as it relates to their plan and the investments that were made. Attorney Scott Lempert, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Keep the press up. What happens next? Thank you. Go back to my panel here.

The thing that jumps out at me Jeff, Makongo, and Julian. And I'm about to really ruffle some feathers here, some people, so y'all just need to go ahead and just buckle up. No, stay on camera two. I have said this a lot.

I have said this a lot. In fact, I'm about to, actually, I'm walking to the other side. So you need to go and change the camera. I've said this a lot. That one of the biggest mistakes, one of the biggest issues that I see in black America. And this is not specific, folks, just to this particular story here, but one of the biggest mistakes that I see in black America is that we have people who are in power. Who. Have never sat at the table of power. And so as a result.

We have individuals who are in decision-making positions who do not have a level promoters of the Southern Heritage Classic there in Memphis. And JSU was leaving because basically Deion Sanders was like, why are we playing in this game, making all this money for other folk, and we're not making it for the university? And I said then that every HBCU president and the board of trustees should be examining all of their relevant contracts, their conference television deals. They should be examining their advertising deals, their media deals. Those HBCU presidents do not have the expertise to do it. They should then go hire people who know how to do that. So you're actually maximizing your revenue. There you go. board of trustee members, athletic directors, coaches,

negotiating deals in areas they know nothing about. And so that's why when I sat here and I saw this and I'm sitting here, yo, it's just basic common sense. The first question, the person over the money, do they have any experience over the money? I would never put somebody over $126 million who ain't never been over $126 million. Ain't going to happen. Years ago, Pastor Floyd Flake told me,

we were at an event, it was in Chicago, he said, when we first started doing deals for our church in Jamaica, Queens, he said, it might be a million, two million dollar deal, he said, I would go to the meetings with our deacons. He said, yeah, when we start negotiating with the banks for 30, 40, 50 million dollar deals, I ain't bringing the deacons. He said,

I had somebody on my side of the table who talked the same language as they talked so they could understand. I got somebody on my side who knows what they talking about. So they can't pull no okey-doke on us because he speak the same language they do. That's called bringing expertise to the table. And I dare say, and again, some of y'all can get mad all y'all want to, and I'm saying this because this is a byproduct. This is a byproduct of white supremacy, of Jim Crow, of racism, that one of the biggest problems that we have is that we have black institutions, black organizations, black churches, black colleges, black media

companies, black companies across the board, black fraternities and sororities, where we are electing people to leadership when we know that elections are about who we like, who makes us feel good, who tickles the ear, ooh, we should make them president, and a lot of times they don't know what the hell they doing. They ain't never sat in the table with power.

They've never walked in the room with power. They don't know even how to respond to power. And so here they are over our organizations What they doing I've said this and it's a no disrespect to any one individual And I ain't got no problem saying it. I Don't care. I say this to Ron Busby the US Black Black Chambers Inc. at the conference where I gave the keynote. I said there cannot be a conversation about black economics and civil rights organizations leading the meeting. Can't have no conversation about black economics, about black business, and the folk leading the meeting

ain't never run a business. Don't know jack about a P&L sheet. Don't know jack about a balance sheet, cash reserves, investments, nothing. If you ain't never operated on a large scale, we can't have no large scale conversation. And so if we really want to be honest with ourselves, one of the greatest mistakes that we are making as a people right now is that we are talking about the collective power and the wealth that exists in black America, but the reality is it is being unused.

It has not been properly tapped. It has not been properly channeled because we got too many folk who are over this stuff who don't know what the hell they doing. I remember years ago when I was in Houston, our catering business, there was an event going on and Reverend Bill Lawson, they were having his, they were building a school for young boys. And Willie Alexander, black Republican, former Houston All-Is-Wide receiver, was the chair of the board, member of the church. And so they were sitting in the meeting, and they were talking about their board of directors.

They were talking about an upcoming fundraiser, and they were talking about who should they have on the committee. And folk were throwing out this name and this name and this name and this name. And Willie finally said, hey, y'all, I don't mean no disrespect, but everybody y'all mentioned that's nice and wonderful. But everybody y'all mentioned not one, not damn one of them can bring a check. He said, we trying to raise $500,000. You can't put nice people on the board who can't bring no money. He said, I ain't how this work. And truth be told, we got a whole bunch of people

on the boards of black organizations who can't bring no money. Either they own money or they don't know folk with money. And so all they are doing is occupying a seat with a vote and they can't do nothing. The second time I was on the board of NABJ, 2009 to 2011, somebody gave us $10,000. And we had board members. They were excited. They were hyped.

They're like, Roland, what's wrong with you? I'm like, I'm sorry, what do you mean? They said, you're not excited? I said, about what? They said, we just got $10,000. I said, man, I appreciate that, but I ain't, no. He's like, but I don't understand why. I said, I don't mean to disrespect, but I get $15,000 for a speech.

They looked at me and they were like, but I said, you are head over heels for $10,000. It ain't $100,000. It ain't a quarter of a million. It's $10,000.

Then I looked around the room. We had like 15 board members. I looked around the whole room. There probably are the 15 people, 13 had never negotiated a six-figure salary in their life. Now, I want y'all to hear what I'm saying. I ain't being bougie. I ain't being elitist. Now I want y'all to hear what I'm saying. I ain't being bougie.

I ain't being elitist. I'm being real. At some point, we've got to understand you can't play. What's that line from the Ice Cube? A diss song, Big Bank, and Lil Bank. Big Bank don't talk to Lil Bank. You can't go to the club trying to buy bottles if you ain't got bottle money.

I done told y'all, you cannot go to the Palm Restaurant with Golden Corral money. Ain't no diss on Golden Corral. Been there, I go again. Listen, my daddy turned 75 years old on April 25th. I'm going to Houston on April 23rd. I already told my sister, I'm taking my daddy and my family to the Palm Restaurant for my dad's 75th birthday. I got Palm Restaurant money. Now, when I used to not have Palm Restaurant money, me and my mama and my sisters and my brother, daddy would be going to Golden Crab.

That's fine. Enjoy it as a family. But my point is this. We have got to get to the point in Black America where we are being honest that one of the greatest failures that we have right now is that we have people who are running our organizations, who are running our institutions, who a lot of them don't know what the hell they doing. Now, I ain't going to have her bust nobody out, but Juliana know what the hell I'm talking about. She's the president at Bennett. I know she was like, why in the hell are these people on my board of directors who don't

do a damn thing? They don't even bring in a thousand dollars, but they sit in they happy ass on the board of directors of one of two black women's colleges and don't do squat. I know, you ain't, Julia, you ain't gotta say, I guarantee that's the case. Jeff, no. Jeff, how many preachers you know dealing with boards of trustees right now

who don't know a damn thing? They don't know nothing about investments, building, nothing, but they sitting there trying to tell the preacher who has brought in talent or even members of the church with expertise and knowledge. If you got somebody sitting there who don't know nothing, don't know nobody, but because they are in a power position, they have a vote. Indeed. I'm trying to get. See, I know a lot of y'all sitting here, see my phone's over there at a computer.

I know y'all on this chat message boards like, Rollie, man you always talking about money. Yes! Because we as a community, as Dr. King said in his book, Where Do We Go From Here, Chaos or Community? What he said when he spoke to the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in August of 1967 at their 10th annual conference, he said, black America, individually we are poor, but black America, collectively we are not poor. And when you've got alpha and kappa and omega and sigma and iota and AKs and deltas and zetas and sigma gamma rho and sigma pi phi to Boolean and the links, we can go on and on. We can talk about Prince Hall Masons, Eastern Star. We can talk about all the organizations, men's groups, women's groups, churches, HBCUs, on and on and on, somebody

has got to be honest and willing to say, how are we managing even the little or meager resources that we have? Are we maximizing to our potential? Are we tapping into knowledge and expertise? If you have a media company and you are excellent at advertising Why am I over here talking to some damn shade tree hustler who don't know a damn thing about? Ratecard rates who know nothing but somehow you let them negotiate your ad deal At some point the shade tree mentality has got to, look, I get it.

I grew up in Clinton Park. We couldn't take the car to a top line mechanic all the time. And we have a brother down Fidelity Road, and guess what? It was a big-ass tree in his front yard. And yes, he was a shade tree mechanic. And yes, he would fix some stuff. But I'm sorry, when you buy a BMW or Mercedes, you don't go to the shade tree mechanic. And so the time has come in our organizations. We've got to be able to say, I'm sorry, if you don't have the expertise, I've got to find somebody else.

And let me say this, that does not mean that you've got to find somebody white because I guarantee you that there are black people who are lawyers who are doctors who are engineers who are marketing experts who are PR experts who can actually do the job but that also means is how we use our collective power look I get it lipping group used to be the PR agency for the NAACP for the image awards It used to piss me off having this white law white app with white firm on a red carpet Didn't even know any of the black damn superstars had no idea my dear Then it went high sunshine and sex, okay, I get it major major PR firm But I'm sitting there going why aren't our black organizations telling two or three black PR firms, y'all should create a joint venture and we can make sure you get the contracts, be able to build your capacity. Same thing.

We are never going to move to a new level until we are honest with what we have and don't have, and there are just too many of our institutions that got folks running them and overseeing them, who we like, who are wonderful, kind people, but they ain't got no business being over the money. Somebody had to say it, and this is one reason why folks didn't like me in high school. I remember being in high school sitting there, I'm a Congo, and we had Jack Yates, and it's a senior class, and they sitting here around talking about, hey, let's go to Aruba, let's go to Jamaica, let's go to Mexico. And they having this old little silly-ass conversation, and finally I said, give me

the microphone. I said, didn't they just tell y'all y'all ain't paid for y'all graduation invitations? So can we just be honest? Y'all can't afford to go. So guess what? Take your asses down to Galveston. Enjoy the weekend. That's your senior trip.

Then come on back. They all were cussing me out. Guess where they went, Jeff? Took their ass to Galveston for the senior trip because they ain't had no damn money. Somebody had to say it. I was in college. We were in our gospel choir. Voices of praise. We sitting there. Now look, I'm born and raised Catholic, so it ain't like you learn scripture. Okay, we sitting there and all these folks, Lord Jesus God, provide the choir roles for us. They going on and on and on. And me being Catholic, I was

like, I got a question. At some point, are y'all going to announce a fundraiser? Because I just know Jesus ain't going to have just robes just show up out to blue. They all mad at me. They all mad. Oh, why you got to be like that? I said, I'm just saying, you can praise, holler, sing all you want to, but them robes ain't showing up until somebody come up with a fundraising. See, somebody got to say the stuff other folk don't want to say. Now, Julian, you're an economist, and again,

you were president at Bennett. You know exactly what I'm talking about. It's way too much conversation in our community, and we got a lot of people who ain't got no business being over the money who don't know nothing about the money. Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, I have lived it. I have absolutely lived it as not only in many capacities as treasurer of many of our African-American organizations where I could tell you stories, but I can't because people know who I was talking about.

But in one capacity, somebody actually came and said, can you give my brother a job? And I said, no. And they said, why not? I said, because he ain't qualified. Plain and simple, I have a limited budget. I can't hire everything that walks up off the street because they're related to you.

Well, of course, rolling my mouth is not as big as yours, praise the Lord. But I got into a lot of trouble. We know that's a lie, but go ahead. Your voice is louder. How's that? But no, I mean, you know, this person's life.

We have this money, the budget, my brother needs a job. Not thinking, I mean, we have to do long-term thinking about money. The only thing I said about the AME church is not blaming the AME. It's going to take them decades to build back out of this. And individual churches didn't have anything to do with it. That national, whatever they call themselves. No, leadership. Leadership. So, you know, support your pastor, who probably is tens of thousands of dollars,

if not hundreds of thousands of dollars poorer than he or she was, you know, a year ago. Support your pastor, but be very critical of the institution of leadership and the kinds of distortions that it causes in our thinking. We know better. You know, Marcus Garvey came down behind some financial chicanery and the conspiracy of the United States government. We could go down and call the roll of how some of our organizations are flawed, not even flawed, crippled because of financial chicanery. And we have to stop with the financial chicanery. As you say, you cannot walk into, you know, you can't buy a Lexus with Toyota money,

even though they're the same car. But you still cannot buy a Lex with Toyota money. And so we have to be very realistic, stop, you know, basically try to keep up with the Joneses and just try to keep up with ourselves. And the other question we really must ask, Roland, as you talked about your friends in the choir robes that crack me up, but when do we invest in ourselves?

When do we say we can't have everything? When do we look at a budget and say, okay, this is what I can afford, it's what I can't afford? And when are we able to be transparent about there's no shame in being broke, there is shame in being stupid? Yes. And there's shame in when you don't know just simply saying I don't know.

Or Jeff when you're a leader and you're going into a meeting and you really don't know, sit there and shut the hell up. Yeah, listen. Don't say nothing.

I mean, I remember I was sitting here. We had a meeting with this major corporation. And I'm sitting here, and folks jockeying for a position. Man, they went in here. Jeff. Let him use you Jeff let him use you let him use you no it pissed me off just thinking about it man we sat in this meeting

after we had created this campaign that was like solid they walked in this meeting and asked for $50,000 I just dropped my head They walked in this meeting and asked for $50,000. I just dropped my head. And we're at the meeting, and they're sitting here going, what's wrong with you?

I said, well, you asked for, I said, $100 million. Yes. They were like, what? I said, that company got a $200 billion market cap. And you walked in there asking for $50,000. They were like, I'm like, are you serious? It's understanding how to exert power. And unfortunately, too many of our institutions are being run by people who have no clue how to use it. Well, this is, you know, my brother's a historian. I'm the spiritual leader.

But my brother's a historian. And what he would point out, what any historian would point out is that this is a lack of understanding our traditions and our culture. We are resting literally on the laurels of a generation, two, three generations back. Yes, the AME Church was a model and has been a model for excellence. It's been a model for protocol. When we talk about founding the AME Church, when we talk about founding the NAACP, when we talk about people like W.B. Du Bois, when we talk about people like Ida B. Wells, when we talk about these great leaders whose shoulders we stand upon, there's a disconnect when we don't recognize that it is our responsibility to walk in the exact same tradition. That tradition is discipline. When you talk about the United Methodist Church,

they have a book called the Book of Discipline. When you talk about the African Methodist Episcopal Church, their doctrine is the doctrine of discipline. It is discipline that provides success. Y'all remember Lean on Me, the movie, when Morgan Freeman's character said enthusiasm is not the enemy of discipline. Discipline is really simple. Discipline, as it applies to our history and culture of excellence, is one thing. It's simply promising yourself you're going to do something and following through. For generations, we have had models of people who practiced vision, and they practiced the discipline that manifested the vision. The disconnect happens when we don't step ourselves into the space where we say the future generations need to stand on our shoulders. We can't rest on the laurels of those who work before us and expect that we're going to see fruit for future generations if we aren't willing to do the work. April 16, 2014, I got the vision to do this independent church called the Infinity Fellowship, bring people together

across different traditions to do social action. That was April 16, 2014. Our first service was October, the first Sunday in October of that same year, six months later. What did we do during that time? We got articles of incorporation. We selected people who were experts in their field, who were looking for a like organization who could bring resources to the table. We made the extra step of getting a 501c3. We put a board in place. I'm the founder and chief spiritual officer, and I don't touch the money.

We have accountability and accountability systems, an independent CPA firm, all of that before we even open the doors. We have got to set this space up as a community, as a space of discipline and excellence, because that's the tradition we came from. We can no longer rest on the laurels. So yeah, we're absolutely right. And it's not lost on me, Roland, that you took a step to the podium, to the pulpit, to deliver this message because you're absolutely

right. We have infinite power through an infinite number of organizations when we decide to do things in decency and in order. You select people who are experts in their field, bring them to the table. Dr. Malvo can tell you she's a university president. You always want to make sure you surround yourself with people who make you feel that you have to step up as a leader. So you get bright minds in the world and get people who are experts in their

field and they know what to do. Last thing and then I'm going to turn this over because I know Dr. Omicongo is going to bring something fire. My wife shut down. She's brilliant. I love her. I'm sending a shout out to you, Kanitha, because you and the family always watch. Kanitha Carr is one of the most brilliant women I've

ever met and she was brilliant and beautiful before I married her. But she shut down an entire financial seminar that she was attending that was affiliated with the church with one question. And it was an innocent question, but it was loaded. This lady was teaching about wealth building. And she said, what's your net worth and how did you build your income? And this lady paused and she said, well, I'm still working on that. I hadn't reached the space. She said, well, can you show us your financial statements? I want to see where you are.

And she said, well, I'm not really there. I'm just kind of teaching the philosophy right now. Everybody left that class. Because you're listening to somebody speak who has no expertise and proven fruit. That means that that's somebody who is just scamming you out of your money. Trust people who are experts. Bring them in and then do not be afraid to be responsible. What we're talking about is a failure of leadership.

It's a failure of accountability. It's a failure of accountability. It's a failure of stewardship. And now you have an entire group of people who have dedicated their lives to this institution, whose eldership and future are now put at risk because an entire council of people decided to turn over their finances to one person who we have determined to this point has not demonstrated acuity and expertise in the area of finance. And this is what happens when we do not operate and we are not faithful over the few things that could lead us to be rulers over many. I know we got a little wind up next, so my guests, just hold on one second. But I need folk to understand what I'm talking about. I have, I've told y'all, I've probably now visited some 60 or 65 HBCUs in America.

And I can't tell you the number of conversations that I have had with university presidents about some of these issues. And a lot of them had no idea what the hell I was talking about. And every single time I was explaining to them, you need to tap into the talent pool of people who are experienced on these very things and bring them in. You need to, it's time to get rid of these shady folk who are nothing but hucksters who are looking to just cut deals, cut side deals. Folks who sit in here don't have the rights to nothing, don't have the rights to content, don't have the rights to sell anything, and all they're doing is basically just sitting here doing a hustle. At some point, people have got to learn I am no longer in the hustle business.

I am in the business business. Last night, I was watching the HBO docuseries, the HBO series Winning Time, about the Los Angeles Lakers. And when Magic Johnson, here he was was a rookie coming out of Michigan State, starring with the Lakers, leading them to an NBA title in his first year. And all of these shoe companies were coming at Magic Johnson.

They were coming at him left and right. And I understand why Magic did what he did. And so Magic ends up signing with Converse because Converse was the top brand. Dr. J wore Converse. What the series showed, y'all, was that there was a guy, a little white guy, who everybody blew off, who everybody ignored, who was walking around with his briefcase, who did not have a big old platform at the sneaker convention. He was walking around trying to get athletes to just pay attention to him and look at his shoe. And so this little white guy walked up to Magic and was sitting here saying, Magic, trust me, I can't pay you what Converse and the rest will pay you what I can do is offer you one dollar a year

But I can offer you a hundred thousand shares and if we hit certain milestones, I'm gonna give you more shares Magic turn him down. He turned that man down magic sign with converse magic later sign a 25 year 25 million dollar deal with Converse. Everybody was like, oh my God, Magic, you signed this major deal. Who was that little white man Magic turned down? His name is Phil Knight. Phil Knight, yeah.

Who is Phil Knight? The founder of Nike. Yep. Had Magic Johnson stepped back and said, I'm going to take a chance on this guy right here. I'm going to get

equity in a company of the shoes I'm wearing. Not a marketing check. I'm going to get equity in the company. Based upon what Phil Knight offered Magic in 1979-80 and what Magic would have gotten shares. Today, Magic Johnson, who has a net worth, some say, $300 to $600 million,

Magic would have made, solely from Nike, $5.2 billion. Wow. Magic Johnson would be the second richest African American in America had Magic turned Converse down and took the Nike deal.

Magic later said, because I grew up in an inner city in Lansing, Michigan. He said, we know nothing about stocks, publicly traded companies or equity. He said we were broke. So I took the money that was sitting in front of me. Magic said, every time he drives past a Nike store, he kicks

himself with the same pair of Converse that he got. Magic said, every time he see a Nike store, he get mad because he realized what he turned down. Y'all, all I'm trying to tell y'all is one of the most fundamental problems that we are facing in black America today is that when you don't know, you don't know. And if you don't know, damn it, go find somebody who does know.

And if you don't know nobody who don't know, then fine. Go find somebody who might know somebody who does know. Talk to them. Interview them. Do what Napoleon Hill said. Create your mastermind group to be able to say, hey, I got six, eight people I can bounce stuff off of. I don't know what the hell they talking about, but I think you do. And I think you do. And I think you do. And y'all advise me. And y'all hear what I just said? You create your

committee of experts who can then offer your expertise. Based upon this lawsuit, had the AME church did just what I just said. There's no way in hell They would have lost 90 million dollars because had you created a mastermind group of people with expertise and knowledge You would not have put your money in the hands of one preacher with no financial expertise And now all of a sudden you see yourself now at a loss y'all if we gonna be real y'all can holler Reparations all y'all want to but guess what if you don't know a damn thing about money if they give you a check It's gonna be gone in a week If we really want to go there

So we have got to be real about conversations every single day about money, about houses, about annuities, about credit, about all of these things. As Dr. King said, as individually, if we look at ourselves individually, African Americans are poor when it comes to this country. Collectively, it's a whole different conversation. But you've got to be willing to say what needs to be said.

And it's a bunch of people running black institutions. Ain't got no business running them. Let's just be real. Omokongo, final comments, then we go to break. You know, this is like the classic, first of all, when I saw the sermon was just boiling up in you when you were talking to the attorney, so I knew you were about to drop that knowledge. And, you know, this is like the classic example of when I was growing up, a lot of kids said that they didn't want to get involved with the church because, you know, the preacher was driving around with a nice house and a nice car. Like, this is the stereotype of that on steroids. And, you know, we can talk about all of the issues and

challenges that we're facing in this country, but we have to spend a lot of time looking at what we're doing to ourselves in our own community. And the economics aspect of it is a huge portion of it. You know, Roland, yesterday I watched your segment on Black Lives Matter and the $6 million house and the story, and you were talking about how no one in the current leadership is coming forward to explain what's going on as it relates to that. And, you know, as Patrice was saying in her note, people will see what happens with the financials

and everything like that, but we have this young organization, and we hope that as organizations start to grow like that, they're learning the lessons from the large organizations. Because we live in a society now where every single camera is on us, whether we're talking social media, whether we're talking traditional media, everybody is looking for us to fail. So to continually put ourselves in positions where we are setting ourselves up to fail, with the Magic Johnson example, from our lack of knowledge, the AME church, the lack of knowledge of the people around us, and the false trust that we put in people, how did Reagan say,

without trusting but verifying? We're setting ourselves up for positions of failure that are going to set us back in addition to everything else that we have to deal with in the community. So whether we're talking about a nonprofit, whether we're talking about a church, whether we're talking about a university, whatever it is, we cannot be googly-eyed by looking at somebody and their stature and their fame. What are you doing as it relates to my money and how can you prove that you are willing, you are able and qualified to do this work. Until we handle those types of issues, we are going to continue to be our own worst

enemy. And as it relates to the history, no one could put it down better than you did, Roland. And so I'm just hoping that current organizations like Black Lives Matter and the like, and well-established ones with centuries of history, really stop and think, really stop and reflect,

because quite honestly, Roland, AME Church may not be the only one that may be seeing some lawsuits, because this could be happening in many of our other institutions in terms of our religious institutions, and this might just be the first drop in the bucket. Indeed, indeed.

So I just want folks to understand where we are, where we're going. This is about building our institutions to survive. What did I say? When we're no longer here. I am tired of having black survival conversations. It's time to have thriving conversations. I don't want to get a damn phone call from Julianne at six o'clock in the morning when I'm on the radio in Chicago saying we got to raise $30,000. We're trying to

keep these girls in at Bennett to graduate. No, she needed to have an endowment, but that was already taken care of. See, y'all, again, we have surviving conversations. This is about having thriving conversations. And I know some of y'all mad. Some of y'all are upset. But that ain't my problem. I done told y'all, if y'all want it, if y'all are looking for somebody who's going to comfort you and make you feel good, y'all can watch Reverend Dr. Jackie Hood Martin

on her field show once a week. God gave my wife a spirit of comfort. She'll pray with you. She'll make you feel. She will help you out. God has given me a spirit of discomfort. My job is to make y'all uncomfortable. I ain't gonna make you feel good. That ain't me. She'll pray with you. I won't. She gonna be right. She gonna be nice. She gonna bring the Lord. They gonna dang the spirit he gave me. That's why I do what I do the way I do it because somebody got to give it to you straight. No chaser or Malcolm X said I don't think he liked it like integrated was his coffee. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and see it. That was a white television news but white cable news president told a good friend of mine Well, you know rolling is like a strong cup of black coffee. That's the reason why they didn't want to sign me Well, guess what when your ass hung over

You need a strong cup of black coffee to wake your behind up. And that's what a bunch of us need. I'm going to break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk sarcoidosis. It killed Reggie White. It killed Bernie Mac. It's also having a huge impact on the health of black women.

You're watching Roller Mark Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. On the next A Balanced Life, April is Autism Awareness Month. We will be having a very special conversation on education, advocacy, and working in that space. Whether you have a child on the spectrum or not, this is a space for you. This is a conversation you don't want to miss. Join me, Dr. Jackie, on A Balanced Life on Blackstar Network. When did you know that this is what I wanted? I think right after high school, because in high school I was in all the plays.

I was always funny, but I didn't know nobody would pay me for it. And then I saw Eddie Murphy. This was like 84 when I saw Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy was the hottest thing in the whole wide world. Not just comedy, but anyway, he saved Saturday Night Live. If he hadn't started that, that show would be gone. He had done 48 hours, trading places, his first Beverly Hills top, could wear the hell out of a red leather suit,

and he wasn't but 23 years old. He was rich enough to pee cream, and he got all that telling jokes. I said, shit, I've been funny my whole life. I didn't know people give you money like that. So I went and got some Red Fox albums. I went down to my mama's basement where I was living anyway.

And I stood in that mirror and played them albums and them jokes until I could tell them like they were mad. Wow. And that started me doing jokes. And then I went and did comedy in the street. I was standing on State Street, tell jokes and pass my hat. And white folks would come up and just hand me money. And I liked it.

Hello, everyone. I'm Godfrey, and you're watching... Roland Martin Unfiltered. And while he's doing Unfiltered... All right, folks. You heard about sarcoidosis. Two prominent African-Americans... Actually, there are three prominent African-Americans who actually have heard about sarcoidosis. Two prominent African Americans, actually, three prominent African Americans who actually have died of sarcoidosis. Bernie Mac, Reggie White, Mahalia Jackson. Sarcoidosis is a disease. Legendary comedian, of course, Bernie Mac passed away in 2008. It's now being called the silent health crisis among black women.

This rare disease disproportionately affects about 175,000 black women in the United States. Black women are three times more likely to develop sarcoidosis when compared to white women. Black women are more likely to experience chronic and severe symptoms, resulting in 10 to 18 times higher hospitalization rates than white women and more than double that of African American men.

Black women also have a mortality rate 12 times higher than that of white women and 1.5 times higher African American men. Black women also have a mortality rate 12 times higher than that of white women and 1.5 times higher than black men. Ignore No More is a campaign to raise sarcoidosis awareness in the black community, especially among sisters. Erica Courtney Mann from the Foundation for Sarcoidosis Research Women of Color joins us from Spring, Texas. And Dr. Ogugwa Ndele Obele.

Hold up, did I get it right? Hold up. Ndele Obele, is that it? I get it right? Hold up. Ndele Obele, is that it? Yes. All right, got it. Assistant Professor of Medicine at East Carolina University's Brody School of Medicine, joining us from Greenville, North Carolina.

Glad to have both of you here. Okay, why are black women impacted by this more than even black men? Hi, Roland. I think it is for multiple reasons. I think some of it has to do with genetics. Black women are more likely to get the disease, three times more likely,

but much, much more than the genetics of the disease. It has to do with all the barriers that Black women have to deal with. They have to deal with racial barriers to care, socioeconomic barriers to care, and gender barriers to care. This trifecta significantly affects the outcomes of the disease. It affects them getting timely diagnosis and them getting the care that they need for the disease. And you said it very correctly. Black women are 12 times more likely to die of this disease than any other race. They are 10 to 18 times more likely to be hospitalized. And so overall, their outcomes are much worse.

And it's a whole lot more than genetics. It's the barriers that they face. So how does it even develop? And does it, like at a younger age, does it happen when you're an adult? I mean, how do you even know that sarcoidosis is developing in your body? Oh, you'll know. Roland, we don't know what causes sarcoidosis at this point in time. We think it has to do with, you know, a genetic predisposition as well as to several environmental exposures. It generally starts affecting people

somewhere between the ages of, you know, 20s to 40s. And generally, they'll present with several different symptoms. The most common symptoms would include things like tiredness, cough, shortness of breath, and multiple other symptoms, because it's a disease that can affect, really, any part of your body. You know, you've talked about the famous people we know that had sarcoidosis, and some of them, it was in their lungs, in others, it affected their skin,

but it can really affect any part of your body and can affect it in multiple different ways. Wow. So, Erica, it's not just lungs? No. I have it in three places. I have pulmonary sarcoidosis, I have larinal sarcoidosis, and I have oral sarcoidosis. For most black women, we actually have multiple instances of sarcoidosis. Wow. And see, when I was watching the movie on Mahalia Jackson, I mean, all these years, I just started.

First of all, I didn't like how the movie ended. It was just sort of like it ended. And I was kind of like, I said, well, I said, well, what did Mahalia Jackson, I said, when did she pass and when did she die of? And I looked it up, and they kept referring in the movie. Actually, I was a little ticked off with the movie because they kept referring to her health issues. And I was sitting at home, and I was kind of like, what the hell was Mahalia Jackson's health issues? I looked it up. She had sarcoidosis. I was like, wow. I mean, all these I literally had never known that Mahalia Jackson had been suffering from this.

This this amazing gospel singer. That was one of, that was what she ended up passing from. Roland, you said, you bring up something really important. I think that it's important that we call this disease by its name. Many times, especially in the African-American community, we refer to the disease of the lung. You know, it's the disease. It's important that we call it by its name. It's sarcoidosis.

And, you know, like Erica very rightly said, it can be in your lungs. That's pulmonary sarcoidosis. It can affect your heart. That's cardiac sarcoidosis. But it's important to name the disease. It's a rare disease, meaning, you know, less than 200,000 people in the U.S. have it. But for those that have it, it's debilitating. And disproportionately so, African-American women are bearing the brunt of this disease.

I think it's time we start to call this disease by its name, sarcoidosis. Sarcoidosis. Let's call it by its name. Let's own it. Because we need to bring light to this disease. People need to know about it. And we need to become empowered to deal with this disease. Um, Erica, I've got a sister here, Tamara Robertson. She says,

I had neurosarcoidosis, which was inflammation of the brain. Yeah, it can attack any part of your body. I consider myself lucky because it attacked my larynx and took out a vocal cord. And that's how I got my FAST diagnosis. Most black women, it takes months or years to get a correct diagnosis. So it can, it can mimic diseases. Sometimes it mimics other inflammatory diseases and you wait for a long time to get the correct

diagnosis. So yeah, it can go anywhere it wants to. And that's why we really need to bring awareness to the community. So somebody who's watching, okay. So,gunwale, what are they looking for? What should they be, I mean, obviously, what symptoms? What are they, if they don't know, before they go to the doctor, what? Well, for me, it started with fatigue. I was just tired. I was always tired. And then, again, like I said,

I'm really lucky because it went on the attack and the granulomas that were forming were forming in my neck. So my doctor looked at me and was like, Hey, your neck is not supposed to be that big. And I was just like, Oh girl, that's baby weight. But my baby was too. So yeah. I always say if you are, you know, fatigued and you're constantly tired and you're constantly short of breath, have a conversation with your PCP about maybe I should go get a CT scan. Maybe somebody should look at my chest and why I'm short of breath. Like I just feel that black women have the right to high-quality care, and they should start the conversation. We talked about this campaign.

First of all, let me see. I'm going to go to questions from our panel. Julian, go ahead. You first. First of all, sisters, thank you for sharing. I was going to ask how it affected you, but since you so generously have shared your diagnosis, I think we kind of get it. But our sister physician here who has talked about all the conditions that black women experience. So if we begin to attack these health disparities and we know we were seen last, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, we could list them.

If we attack these health disparities, does that reduce our incidence of this disease? If we attack the health disparities, it decreases, reduces the outcomes of the diseases that, of this disease. In other words, it will improve trust in the healthcare system. It will promote early diagnosis. It will promote prompt treatment. It will improve the communications between the physician and the doctor and overall reduce the burden and the outcome of the disease. And that's our goal. Now, African-American women tend to have more chronic forms of the disease, whether it's because oftentimes they are going, you know, prolonged periods without, you know, either complaining or having their complaints ignored. And again, decreasing these disparities will help them go to their physicians earlier, will help them trust what the physician is saying, and will also help the physician listen to them and act promptly when we hear complaints.

Thanks. Jeff? Sounds like educate physicians more than the patients, actually. I think it's both ways. It's really both ways. You know, I talked about the barriers that African-American women face, you know, socioeconomic, gender, racial barriers, and racial barriers to kind of hone in on their, you know, conscious or unconsciously held biases that both the physicians as well as the patients bear. So certainly, you know, if as a patient you don't trust your doctor or, you know,

you don't, for one reason or the other, haven't established a rapport. You're less likely to go to clinic appointments, less likely to do what they've said. On the physician side, if you have this biases too, you're more likely to blow off what the patient is saying or not take it to heart. So I think it goes both ways. And it's important that we say that. We certainly do want patients to be empowered, especially African-American women. I want them to be empowered. Ask questions. If you feel like you're not being heard, say it again. Say it again. Make sure you are heard. It's important. Jeff? Yes. First off, thank you, Dr. Abili, for your expertise and for your commitment in this space. Sister Erica, thank you for your transparency and your honesty. Know that

I and everybody around the world are sending healing vibrations your way and speaking clean and perfect health. And we're doing that with a vibrational frequency that is powerful because it's coming from a space of love. When you talk about 200,000 people being affected, it does seem like a small number in comparison. But when you know people who have been affected by this, it's very real. I still remember December 26th of that year, Reggie White, 43 years old, passed away. I was a friend of Reggie's and did a lot of work for him. It was a devastating event for his family. How do we talk about treatment when somebody is feeling

maybe a little bit under? What are some of the very specific things that our sisters should say to their doctors and request to their doctors if they think that they might be dealing with this medical issue? So I think the first thing to start with is to get a diagnosis. Now, Erica mentioned how sometimes it takes months to get a diagnosis. First and foremost is to get a diagnosis. And there are three things that we rest our diagnosis on. One is the symptoms or the complaints that you have. The second is getting a tissue biopsy.

And the third is making sure we've excluded all potential causes of these granulomas that can be anywhere in your body. The first step is that diagnosis. The second step is for us to find out what organ is affected, how extensive this disease is, how it's affecting your quality of life and the function of the organ. Then we go to treatment. Now, usually the first line treatment for patients who have sarcoidosis is prednisone, and that's a steroid. Now, prednisone has its side effects, and so oftentimes we'll start a second medicine called a steroid-sparing medicine. There are different types to try and decrease the dose of prednisone.

Omokongo? Yeah, wow. Sister Erica, my question is for you. Mahalia Jackson was one of my mother's favorite singers. I watched Reggie White growing up, and I was a huge Bernie Mac fan. If you ask me how all three of them died, I couldn't tell you. I didn't remember at all. What can we do on a daily basis to help get this in the collective minds of our community?

Are there websites we should be driving people to? Are there social media campaigns we should be following? No one's talking about this tonight on any network other than Roland Martin and the Black Star Network. What can we be doing in our spaces to start get the word out? What resource should we direct people to the Foundation for Sarcoidosis Research website. You can go on to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and look up the hashtag Ignore No More. You can go on the Foundation for Sarcoidosis Research website and look up Ignore No More campaign and look at our webpage. And it will have some steps for people who think that they have sarcoidosis and steps for people who support people who think they have sarcoidosis. Because we need to keep talking about it and talking about it until we get our community tuned in

to recognize that maybe if your wife or your mom or your aunt is always talking about they're tired and always talking about their fatigue or short of breath, then maybe you can support them in taking that next step and inquiring about getting tested for sarcoidosis. All right then. Well, look, glad to have both of you. Hopefully more people now have been made aware of sarcoidosis and its impact on black women. Michelle, appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. All right, folks. Final word here in memoriam. The NFL world is mourning the death of Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Dwayne Haskins.

A 24-year-old was hit by a dump truck while trying to cross a highway on foot in South Florida Saturday morning. Florida Highway Patrol says Haskins was walking on the westbound lanes of Interstate 595 for unknown reasons when the fatal accident took place. Reaction to Haskins' death quickly poured in from around the league. Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin said he was devastated at a loss for words going on to say the young quarterback quickly became part of our Steelers family. Just last month, Haskins re-signed with Pittsburgh.

He was spending last season as a backup to former quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. He also, of course, began his career with the Washington Commanders, taking 15th overall in the 2019 NFL Draft, playing 16 games over two seasons. He was a star at The Ohio State University and finished third in the 2018 Heisman Trophy voting. The Washington Commanders and Ohio State have also shared condolences, and so certainly thoughts and prayers go out to the family of Dwayne Haskins,

dead at the age of 24. Jeff, I'm a Congo, as well as Julianna. I certainly appreciate you being on the panel today. Thank you so very much. It was not my intentions to preach that sermon, but as you said, Jeff, sometimes it just go ahead and hit you. You got to go ahead and just say it. Some things need to be said, but I can only imagine being one of those retirees in the AME church and you thought you had 100,000

in your account and now you got 30,000 and you're trying to figure out how am I supposed to live off of that. So hopefully, more answers, we'll get more answers to that as a result of this particular lawsuit. Folks, that's it for us. Again, if y'all want to support us in what we do, please download the Black Star Network app.

Our goal is to get 50,000 downloads by May 1st. Please do so. 50,000 downloads. First of all, Please do so. 50,000 downloads. First of all, YouTube, why y'all tripping? Y'all been watching all this time, and I got to ask y'all at the end of the show to hit 1,000.

We got 971 likes. Really? Y'all, this ain't that hard, okay? It was 2,500 y'all were watching. Now it's 1,600 y'all. All we need is 29 more likes to hit 1,000. Stop having me have to ask for this every single day. As soon as you log on, hit the like button.

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Eldridge Hightower, I certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot, Kevin Williams. Thank you. Let's see here. I've got, let's see here, Herbert Chambers, Lee Cross, also Linda Morehouse. All thank you as well for giving on Zelle. And let's see, Angela, a.k.a. Mokamima. I see you, Omicongo, giving as well. Let's see here. PayPal. Boom. Where's see here. PayPal. Boom.

Where's the name? Where's the name? Looking for the name. Coolest Williams. Coolest Williams. Somato Dabney. Thank you so very much as well. And let's see here.

One more that got in under the wire. Let's see here. I'm waiting to see it. Waiting to see it. Let's see here. I'm waiting to see it. Waiting to see it. That's it. So that's all doing the show. I certainly appreciate it. All right, folks, that's it.

I'm going to see y'all tomorrow. We've got some great stuff planned for you tomorrow as well. We've got some great interviews this week with some book authors. And so really looking forward to it. Also a shout to TV anchor Bruce Johnson. He retired in 2020. Bruce passed away of a heart attack

Sunday before last. His funeral was this morning here in D.C. So, thoughts out to his wife, Lori, their children, his grandchildren. Bruce was a good brother and literally we were just texting March 20th about his book that came out and getting him on the

show. And so, I hate that we never got a chance to have that conversation with Bruce. Folks, again, look, life is short. Again, none of us know. And so live every single moment, every single day, every single hour, every single minute, every single second, and do what you can and do what you do to have an impact on people's lives the best that you can. Folks, tomorrow, right here, Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network.

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