#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Qualified immunity nixed; Biden plan to end COVID; Will Black biz see infrastructure plan $$$?

Episode Date: August 20, 2021

8.19.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Qualified immunity taken off the table; Biden unveils plan to end COVID; AL doc says NO to the unvaxxed; Mississippi hospitals have no beds and a staff shortage amid pandemic; Will Black biz see infrastructure $$$? Commerce Deputy Sec. Don Graves will join us to discuss + Update on Haiti and AfghanistanSupport #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man.

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We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like, he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit adoptuskids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. Martin! E aí We'll be right back. Today is Thursday, August 19th, 2021. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered,

qualified immunity, is it dead in the George Floyd Justice Act? Progressives not happy about that. We'll talk with the Charlottesville, Virginia police chief about what that means. Also, a number of COVID cases continue to escalate. President Joe Biden reveals his plan for defeating the virus. Also, Republicans, oh man, they just running their miles saying no mask mandates.

They just dropping like flies. Speaking of the NFL, they are not playing. They're actually requiring players to be vaccinated. And guess what? You don't get vaccinated, you might get cut from a team. We'll talk with former NFL player Ben Watson. In Alabama, a doctor says he is no longer treating unvaccinated people because he saw those same folks decline the vaccine.

He's like, y'all ain't my problem. And in Mississippi, hospitals have no beds and a staff shortage. It's also Black Business Month, and I was talking with Commerce Deputy Secretary Don Graves about that and what the Biden administration is doing to make sure Black folks get some of that trillion dollar infrastructure money. We'll also have updates on what's happening in Haiti and Afghanistan. Also professors at Spelman, are they going to be teaching? Concerned because of COVID-19.

We'll give you the latest on what's happening at Spelman. It's time to bring the funk on Rolling Mark Unfiltered. Let's go. He's got it. Whatever the piss, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling.

Best belief he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks, he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. With some go-go-royale. It's rolling, Martin. Rolling with rolling now. He's broke, he's fresh, he's real the best.

You know he's rolling, Martin. Now. Martin. For many progressives, indi-qualified immunity was the major point of Judge Floyd's Justice Act. Now we're hearing legislators in the United States Senate are removing qualified immunity as an option from the latest bill. Of course, qualified immunity protects law enforcement officers from civil accountability for wrongdoing. This protection affords officers escape from punishment when they commit crimes like murder, assault, theft while on duty.

Now, advocates argue qualified immunity abolishes police accountability. What you also have, though, is you have police unions and others who say, no, it should remain in. Progressives say if qualified immunity is removed, they will not support this bill, which would cause leading to a death blow to what is already a tenuous situation. Joining us right now is Dr. Rashad Brackney, Charlottesville, Virginia, Chief of Police. Glad to have you here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. So let's talk about this here because, again, all we heard last year in the wake of George Floyd's death, when this bill was put forth, any qualified immunity was in the House bill. You've had this constant back and forth in the United States Senate.

You've had others, many say, if you take this out, you really have no bill. Your thoughts? So I don't think it's a binary, right? We always seem to think that things are either one or the other and that there's no room in between. I think what our citizens are asking for, the community is asking for, is a pathway forward to civil accountability when an officer does something that violates their constitutional rights. And they want it in such a way that it's not so strict or so narrow or so unique that no one can ever get civil. Remember that civil relief, not necessarily criminal relief.

So, but the thing that we're dealing with here is that you have the unions, the sheriff's folks, they're fighting this thing. No, you cannot lose that. But what form of accountability do you have for police officers? Look, this has to get passed. You have folks on the right saying we're going to stand with these law enforcement officers. You have folks on the left who are saying you got to end qualified immunity. So what is the happy medium? Is there one? Well, I actually think there is. And Noble, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, of who I am a member,

we say that the pathway forward may be that you remove the qualified immunity from the organizations itself. Most officers are going to be indemnified when there is a lawsuit or when there's a settlement. In other words, the organization, the municipality already pays that. So if the pathway forward is roll back those immunities from the municipality or the organization or the police department, you can still then leverage all of your rights or your pathways to get monetary relief, civil monetary relief, through another way.

And I think we should explore that a little more as we go forward, right? And there is some protections and reasons that they originally were put in place. But I think that they're so narrow that very few people ever can get any relief or justice by attempting to use a civil suit in which qualified immunity protections are leveraged or defenses leveraged. out here for so many people is that the the onus is really on city councils and county governments having to pay these enormous penalties and that many believe again that until officers are held personally accountable then they're not going to necessarily change their behavior we'll say I think there's two pathways forward to that. And the first one is, we need a criminal legal system that is going to hold the officers accountable. The reason that there's so much, there's this human cry for civil accountability is because

there's no faith in the criminal legal system to hold officers accountable when they violate someone's constitutional rights, very few prosecutions and very few convictions, if any. We see an anomaly or an outlier like George Floyd, and we see there's such relief that there was some sort of justice. But if you think about it, the monetary civil actions, and you're right, the municipality settled in advance of these criminal charges going through the system and being fully adjudicated. So it should not be on the taxpayers' backs individually. But also, if we're going to roll

it back, there needs to be those concepts of how we do that for other politicians, other municipal and other federal and other government workers that may also, that also are afforded those same protections. CONTENT OF HOW WE DO THAT FOR OTHER POLITICIANS, OTHER MUNICIPAL AND OTHER FEDERAL AND OTHER GOVERNMENT WORKERS THAT MAY ALSO, THAT ALSO ARE AFFORDED THOSE SAME PROTECTIONS. LET'S ALSO BE HONEST HERE. ONE OF THE REASONS YOU DO NOT HAVE THE CRIMINAL ACCOUNTABILITY IS BECAUSE THE LAWS LITERALLY ARE SET UP TO GIVE POLICE OFFICERS, I MEAN, WIDE LATITUDE. AND SO VERY FEW DAs ARE LOATH TO to prosecute cops. Very few, fewer grand juries are loathe to prosecute them. In fact, just today, a judge threw out murder charges against some Hawaii police officers where a grand jury declined to indict them. The district attorney felt there should be a trial. They go to court. The judge says not enough probable cause,

charges thrown out. And so residents then say, my goodness, when do we ever actually see justice? I mean, the case of George Floyd, that was one of the few cases where it went to actual trial. Yeah. And I couldn't agree with you more. You will get no fight from me when we talk about police accountability. I just testified yesterday in front of the Virginia committee on that's advising the U.S. Commission on Human Rights and Police Accountability. And the systems that are currently in place do have a lot of gaps. And that is why people are railing against the system. And they turned this moment into an actual movement and not even just for police reform, right? The entire system needs to be reformed

from the very beginning, from the entry point, from policing, through prosecution, all the way through to our judges and our elected officials. And they are very representative of some of the problems that exist, whether it's the relationships that exist between them that are symbiotic and they rely on each other in order to get their work done. But the key has to be the continued high visibility and pressure to get something done. And I think, again, the pathway forward is at least to start removing some of those protections from the municipal agencies as well, because then they will have some responsibility and ownership as to who they hire.

We look at some of these officers. They have been in front of their internal processes 10, 20, 30 times, and they still remain employed or still in that agency, it's because the municipality or the police department or the organization is shielded from those protections. So they're not invested in. They have no skin in the game under the same qualified immunity as that individual officer has. All right, then. Well, we certainly appreciate it. We'll see what happens. Many folks wanted this bill to be signed on by the anniversary of the death of George Floyd.

It is not the case. Here we are in August. We still have no signs as to whether or not this bill is going to come up for a vote in the United States Senate. Dr. Brackney, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much for having me. I want to go to my panel.

Risi Cobert, Black Women Views. Dr. Gregg Carr, Professor, Department of Afro-American Studies, Howard University. All of you, please come forward. Thank you. Thank you. a lot. Thank you so much for having me. I want to go to my panel, Risi Cobert, Black Women Views, Dr. Greg Carr, Professor, Department of Afro-American Studies, Howard University. Also, we are joined by Adrienne Ermer, fellow New Leaders Council of Chicago. Glad to have all three of you here. This is one of those things here, Greg, that we have to be very honest about in terms of what's going on here.

The police folks are going to fight this. That was always the case. Early, you heard Congressman Jim Clyburn saying that, hey, we could take this off the table if it means getting the bill passed. Here's the problem. You remove qualified immunity from the bill and it passes the Senate, there's no guarantee it's going to pass the House. That's true. In fact, there's probably a guarantee that it doesn't.

I greatly appreciated your interview with Dr. Brackney, with Chief Brackney, and the work of Noble, because trapped in those blue uniforms are many Black and brown officers, officers of goodwill, officers who decided to join law enforcement because they wanted to protect their communities and serve their communities. And they are trapped by the white nationalists, by the Klan, by the white nationalists, white supremacists' organizational logic of policing, which is about control and punishment. So we saw Tim Scott doing Tim Scott things again. He and Lindsey Graham last month met with the sheriffs, the National Sheriffs Association. And we saw after that, he pulled back on his

counteroffer to say, well, maybe you can have qualified immunity removed against the departments. And that's what we heard Dr. Brackney say, if you move it to the municipalities, the police departments. But that misses the essential point. It is a philosophy of lawlessness that organizes punishment in this country as it relates to the law. That means that officers literally have a license to kill, to beat, to steal, a license to shoot. And that is what they don't want removed. So after they met with the sheriffs, sent to Scott, pulled that back. So I think that, in fact, the removal of qualified immunity, and of course, Congressman Clyburn initially said,

doing Jim Clyburn things, that he could live without qualified immunity. That's the end of this legislation, brother. Adrian, Chicago is one of those places where we've seen significant issues with cops. We saw Jason Van Dyke, who was convicted for the murder of Laquan McDonald. But we've seen a lot of pushback from cops there when they're being held accountable. And that's really what this boils down to. Many police officers do not want to be held accountable. And so the blue is an extremely powerful force in this country.

And many people, when they sit on grand juries, on juries, they give cops wide latitude and tremendous benefit of the doubt when they are brought before a judge or jury in a trial? No, absolutely. I mean, Chicago certainly isn't different than most other major jurisdictions across the country when it comes to a lack of police accountability and oversight. We recently had the passage of the Civilian Office for Police Accountability from City Council, which is earth-shattering and earth-rocking for Chicagoans, because this would literally be the first time citizens have an opportunity to chime in on the investigation and accountability

process for officers in Chicago. So I'm very hopeful to see the future of this in the city. But I'm definitely going to agree with Dr. Carr. It absent the teeth in police reform, which is reforms to qualified immunity, repealing it altogether, the rest of the reforms are for headlines and to make people feel as though they've done something, but they're not substantive at all. That's the thing right there that jumps out at us, Arisi, and that is people want to see something done. Look, and the Floyd family made it perfectly clear that they were not going to be happy with just any bill. They wanted there to be substance in it. Yeah, but I'm going to disagree with you all. And I've said time and time again that I don't understand why everything has to be this all-encompassing, sweeping bill that solves 100 percent of all

the problems. The fact is that the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act was held as the most comprehensive police reform bill that was ever created. This was held by many criminal justice reform experts and advocates. And so, yes, qualified immunity being stripped from this bill is a loss. But I would like to remind everybody that a lot of the things that actually spurred people getting out on the streets to protest, things like the no-knock warrants that led to Breonna Taylor's murder, is part of this bill, also a ban on chokeholds, which is what ended up killing George Floyd, as well as others.

So those are things that are still in this bill. A national police misconduct registry is still a part of this bill. Something like that would have potentially saved Tamir Rice from being killed by the cops that were actually had misconduct from other departments, but they're allowed to just go to another department and not report that kind of things. Also, the standard of which would, for police are held to where they have to prove that they were reckless, as opposed to that they have to prove there's a higher standard that makes it almost impossible to convict these cops of any kind of wrongdoing. So it changes from was it reasonable, was it necessary to was it reasonable.

And so there are still a lot of wins in this bill. And if you don't get 100 percent of it, then have a standalone qualified immunity bill and try to get that through. But I'm just not of the mindset that, you know, that without this, nothing else counts. And, you know, I think that progressives tend to cherry-pick one thing that they want to hang their hat on and say that this is the most important thing, this is the only important thing, and if that doesn't happen, this is worthless. And I just don't agree with that. I think that we have to get the wins where we can get the wins. We have to get the reforms where we can get the reforms. All or nothing is why we constantly end up with nothing. And in this case,

I know a lot of people feel like it's nothing without qualified immunity, but that only changes to Dr. Brackney's point, the civil aspect, when there's a lot of things in here that changes the criminal aspect. And that's what's really letting these cops off the hook from any kind of criminal charges. But the problem is we don't even know then what's going to come out of the United States Senate. And so we also don't know what else was taken out. And that's sort of where we are. I mean, early, you know, two months ago, I was hearing that Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott were proclaiming, oh, they could bring 2025 Republicans along. I don't see them. And so now here we're heading into September and we still have, we have

no idea if there is even a bill that's actually going to come out of the Senate. If there's no bill, then nothing gets accomplished, right? So, I mean, it's not just about qualified immunity accomplishing nothing. If that's out of it, nothing gets accomplished if there's no bill. But if you can get a bill that has at least some of these reforms in there, that is progress. What I'm saying is, we don't even know what else hasn't been taken out or what's included.

And so that's also... Look, I get the idea of having a bill, but you also want to know if it's... Look, there's some bills that get passed that, frankly, have no teeth, there are some bills that get passed that frankly have no teeth. There's some bills that get passed that really are more ceremonial. The question is, will a bill get passed in the Senate? Are they going to put a bill up that actually has some

teeth in it? That is the question. Absolutely. And I think when we see the full bill, we can evaluate it at that time for what it actually accomplishes. What I'm saying is I'm not willing to write off the criminal justice reform efforts entirely because of one specific thing, which I concede is a big deal. I'm not saying that it's not a big deal, but what I'm saying is I'm not willing to write it all off given the other things that we know of were at least in the bill at some point. Now, if they're no longer in the bill, then we can judge it as a simply ceremonial bill, something like the Juneteenth signing. But if there is still a lot of these things that were championed not just by the senators and the House of Representatives, but by actual criminal justice

organizations and advocates and experts, then that's when I will make my decision as to whether or not it's worth a damn. But, until then, I'm going to withhold some judgment on whether or not anything will be accomplished. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I think we have to separate. There are two different things I think we're talking about. One, let's assume that everything that is currently in the bill except qualified immunity remains in the bill. I do agree that that would make that bill better than the alternative. Even as we understand, at the end of June, the New York Supreme Court, state Supreme Court struck down the New York banning, the Eric Garner Act banning chokeholds for being

unconstitutionally vague. We understand that, if everything in the bill remains in the bill and is passed and goes to the president for signature and becomes law, that does not address the fact that without qualified immunity, a nationwide database will not result in not hiring the killers. It will just make sure that the people realize that they have a staunch record of killing, robbing and shooting before they hire them. It won't get rid of chokeholds. It will simply mean that the force that was applied will then be go to the grand jury. They won't indict. We will go to the prosecutors. The key to all the other reforms is the striking the fear in the pocketbook of individual killers, because as long as we are paying for that murder through lawsuits, and be very clear, if Minneapolis had not settled, George Floyd's

family wouldn't get a dime, because the lack of qualified immunity, in fact, would mean that once the city says, come get us, and the court decides that there is no constitutional level of civil rights violation because the officer had that discretion, they are now precluded from going after Derek Chauvin. Let's be very clear. If everything in that bill remains, hey, I'm saying, hey, go ahead. Cori Bush has said, if we compromise, we die. It's not too far from the truth if you take out the one thing. They are not all equal. Qualified immunity, in fact, is the platform on which all the rest of those things rest. They're two different things, I think.

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, But, Dr. Carr, I respect that. CARLOS CARLOS, I agree. YAMICHE ALCINDOR, But one thing I will say is, I mean, we found that white supremacy is still profitable even outside of the system protecting it. Look at Cal Rittenhouse. He raised over a million dollars for his bail. He's walking the streets free, not dead from selling Lucy's on the street, you know, on the street like others are. So, I mean, there's always going to be a bailout for killers, for whether they're cops, whether they're white supremacists, white nationalists.

So, I mean, in that case, we can never solve any of these issues. So, I mean, I agree we can. But I just think that there is some merit to what is being proposed. It's not going to solve everything, because, at the end of the day, in this country, we have a white nationalist way of policing. And we've talked about that time and time again. But I'm just saying that there are some measures that can improve at least a little bit. And I know that that's not a lot, but I do think that it's worth at least acknowledging that if they do, if that does in fact pass. Adrian, go ahead. So, you know, from the legislative process or from that perspective, if you don't get the teeth in the bill on the

front end, you're going to have a very hard time going, if not impossible, getting them added via the amendment process. So that's why members of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party in Congress or the Democrats in Congress are saying, no, if it's not there, this bill does not do what we set out to do in drafting it. And, like I said, I agree with Dr. Carr in his assessment that, if you remove the stick, the biggest stick in the bill, it no longer becomes a deterrent for terrible behavior in uniform. I don't disagree with you either, sis, in your

assessment that there's always going to be a bailout for racists, because there are so many of them out there who want to use these folks as martyrs for their movement and continue to build momentum on their side of things. So, you know, you're not wrong in that. I just think that if we continue to take this mindset of these little teeny tiny wins are acceptable, then we'll never get the big stick ultimately. Well, we're still waiting to see exactly what comes out of the U.S. Senate. And so we'll just have to wait and see. We don't have to wait and see what's going on folks when it comes to COVID-19. Cases are skyrocketing all across the country.

We're seeing significant numbers. ICU beds filling up in Mississippi, Texas, Alabama, and so many states. Today 38 million reported coronavirus cases. 641,459 people have died. That's 185,716 more reported cases and 1278 deaths than yesterday. President Joe Biden laid out his COVID protection plan, including the following.

It lays out starting the week of September 20th, COVID booster shots will be available pending final FDA evaluation and recommendations from CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. It requires vaccinations for long-term care workers who serve Medicare and Medicaid enrollees and would apply to over 15,000 nursing home facilities, which employ approximately 1.3 million workers and serve about 1.6 million nursing home residents. The plan would extend 100% federal reimbursement

to states for eligible COVID-19 emergency response costs and for mobilizing National Guard personnel to support COVID-19 response efforts dating back to the pandemic start in January 2020. Now, you have school safety. That's one of the issues. President Biden said the Education Department would use its broad powers, including taking possible legal action to deter states from borrowing universal masking in classrooms. One of the places they're targeting is Arizona, where the governor said they're going to be actually pushing back against that. Not only that, folks, you're seeing what happens when people don't get vaccinated. Let's go to Missouri. State Representative Joan Walsh,

guess what? She's actually, excuse me, Sarah Walsh, she's actually about to bury her husband. Why is that? Both of them chose not to get vaccinated. He's now dead. She announced on Twitter that her husband Steve died this morning. A 63-year-old was the communications director for the U.S. Rep Vicki Hartzler, and he has been hospitalized with COVID-19 and placed on a ventilator about two weeks ago. Now, she had COVID, was never hospitalized and recovered at home. As I said, neither was vaccinated. Let's go to South Carolina. A Greenville County Republican Party leader, Presley Stutz, he died today after battling COVID-19 for nearly a month. This is the same person three weeks ago posted this photo while he was in the hospital and was a proponent

for, quote, freedom and liberty. No one should be forced to wear a mask and get vaccinated. He's now dead. In New Orleans, what are Republicans doing? They're actually, folks, fighting the legislature there. The legislature is fighting the New Orleans Saints because the Saints have announced that they're not going to allow people who are not vaccinated to have their season tickets. Hmm.

Check this out. Now, today, there was a panel discussing various things in the legislature. Republicans are trying to stall funding for the city of New Orleans as well as for the Superdome because they're not happy with what the Saints have announced. They're not happy at all. The Saints have also announced they're not giving those season ticket folks a refund back as well. Speaking of that, the NFL, they're making it clear players need to get vaccinated or they're going to have to go into a protocol program. Atlanta Falcons, they're the first team, they have a 1% team vaccinated.

How did that happen? They cut two unvaccinated players. Here's the deal. If you're unvaccinated, you now have to wait five days before another team is eligible to pick you up. If you're anvaccinated, you now have to wait five days before another team is eligible to pick you up. So if you're an NFL player and you choose not to get vaccinated, you might be out of a job. Fair or not?

Let's talk to Ben Watson, longtime NFL player, played tight end in the NFL for several teams. Ben, glad to have you on the show. Good to be with you. You have coaches like Ron Rivera who's been really pissed off with players not getting vaccinated. The NFL has also made it clear they're not going to do what they did last year. Players come up positive. They're not delaying games. This could actually cost teams wins if they have to forfeit games as well.

What do you make of the NFL making it perfectly clear that they're taking a very hard stance when it comes to vaccinations in the NFL season? Well, both the NFL PA as well as the NFL and all players, look, all the cities have a vested interest in having a full NFL season. Look, last year there was no vaccine, but last year no game was canceled. A couple were postponed. Nobody missed any game checks. That was a big thing that came out early as well. So not much has changed from a protocol standpoint. But now what the NFL is saying is if you have not gotten the COVID-19 shot, you will have certain freedoms. You won't have freedoms that others

have that have gotten it. And so what we've seen, look, I'm proud of the NFL players, quite frankly, because when you look at the vaccination rate before the season started, so go back about a month, about 85 percent or so of players had gotten one of the COVID vaccine shots. Now, about a month later into training camp, 92 percent of players. And so they're trending higher than the general public. Players are getting vaccinated. Of course, there are some that aren't. And I, for one, say, you know what? It's your choice. We will always say you have a choice. As a union, we say, look, we're going to protect players. We're going to do our best to provide you with the education. But at the end of the day, you have a choice. But it's

going to be more difficult for you moving forward if you have not taken the shot. And look, look, this is what I keep saying. Yes, individuals have choices, and your choice may very well determine whether you have a job. Well, it's funny you brought up the Falcons. Now, I will venture to say, depending on who that player is, I've been in the NFL for 16 years, depending on who that player is, they could get vaccinated or not get vaccinated and not get cut.

And so I'll venture to say that those who were removed from the team, the Atlanta Falcons, were probably on the lower end of the depth chart. But yes, even coming in, look, it's difficult for teams and staffs to deal with this. You have vaccinated players and coaches that are coming up testing positive, unvaccinated testing positive. And this needs to be a safe environment. So if you haven't been vaccinated, you'll be subjected to many of the same protocols as last year. Contact tracing, mask wearing, social distancing. If you are vaccinated,

you have different freedoms. And so as the country goes, you will see the NFL go. And as you mentioned before, cases are skyrocketing. And so it's a very real and present danger, but it's also an evolving virus that we don't have all the answers to. Well, how about this here? You have also coaches. NFL announced that a tier one personnel must be vaccinated. Well, the Minnesota Vikings, they fired Rick Denison, who was their assistant coach, because he refused the COVID-19 vaccine. Again, Denison had a choice. He made his choice. They said goodbye. And also what's specific about that is that coaches are not unionized. And so when you

have a union like the NFLPA, we can negotiate with the league. We can protect our players. We can agree on certain protocols, which are the protocols that are in place right now to prevent these sorts of outbreaks, so to speak. But coaches don't have that. And so you see a coach getting fired simply because he didn't take a vaccine. One of the things we're bringing in our panel here, Recy, one of the things I think is important here, that what we're seeing when Ben talked about you're seeing the increase in people getting the vaccine, it's because when they realized their jobs were on the line.

Same thing happened. Look, people were sitting here, is the federal government going to issue a mandate? Guess what? Corporations finally said, we're not waiting on y'all. So when Disney and Walmart and law firms and other companies start saying, you ain't vaccinated, you can't work here, the hospitals did it.

I mean, I see these people out here protesting who worked at hospitals saying, this is unfair. And the hospital's like, what the hell are you talking about? THE HOSPITALS DID IT. I MEAN, I SEE THESE PEOPLE OUT HERE PROTESTING WHO WORKED AT HOSPITALS SAYING THIS IS UNFAIR. AND THE HOSPITAL IS LIKE WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WE'RE THE ONES WHO ARE IN THE MEDICAL BUSINESS. YOU PEOPLE WHO WORK IN NURSING

HOMES WHO ARE COMPLAINING, SAME THING. BUT WE'VE SEEN SO MANY PEOPLE WHO DIED OF COVID WHO WERE IN NURSING HOMES. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PRIVATE BUSINESS, WHEN BIG BUSINESS SAYS OKAY, Y'ALL CAN FIGHT OVER THOSE

MASK MANDATES AND ALL SORT OF STUFF ALONG THOSE LINES. EVEN ALL THOSE YAHOO'S ON FOX when big business says, okay, y'all can fight over those mask mandates and all this sort of stuff along those lines. Even all those yahoos on Fox News, we discussed it yesterday, they're running their mouths on the air about mask mandates. Guess what? The company that cuts their checks

got a mask mandate. Fox News yelling about COVID passports. Every person who works for Fox News got to put their information in a database to show and prove they're vaccinated. So it's amazing how folks run their miles. But when the company says this is how we rolling, you can make your choice. Keep your job or get that shot. And it's quite disingenuous, honestly, If you have people that are vaccinated, people that have taken the shot, but then they will continue to talk about the fact that others maybe shouldn't.

Also, I would venture to say that this is a result of some education, because especially in the NFL, you have very healthy individuals. You have individuals who have played an entire season last year without missing game checks, without missing games, even though there was no shot to take. So the protocols that were in place were clearly working. You also have the history. We talk about it all the time. There's a history when it comes to medicine and especially the Black community and how we have been mistreated, how we have been impacted unfairly, disproportionately, all the way going back to medicine. So there's a hesitancy that's there. But also there's the education. You wait, you listen, you learn, you talk to other people, you talk to the experts, you see the things that are happening, and then you make your personal decisions. So specifically, you start to see this rise. Yes,

part of it is because many players did not want to have to deal with some of these inconveniences, getting tested every day, those sorts of things. But there's also the impact of, many players did not want to have to deal with some of these inconveniences, getting tested every day, those sorts of things. But there's also the impact of, OK, I've done my research. I've studied. I've talked to my family. I've made a decision that's best for me. I made it because I wanted to do it, not because I was immediately forced to without me having

any agency. And I will always stand up for a player having agency. That's also what the NFLPA will always stand for. I think recently, I think a lot of those players did do that. But also, I think that threat of not getting that check had an impact as well. I mean, let's be honest. We don't the honor system didn't work. Right. I mean, people were given eight months to make the choice to get the vaccine, to do what's in the best interest for their health and for the best interest of the country. That's why we have a concept called public health. I know people are all up on their horse about high horse about personal choice.

Well, unfortunately, we're in the middle of a pandemic. Your personal choices impact everybody else around you. And so I think that everybody had as much patience as they possibly could. But when they saw that we were starting to plateau when it came to people taking the vaccine, and now there's a surge of the variant, the Delta variant, and that's not the last variant that we're going to have, and people were not being persuaded, and, actually, they were doubling and tripling down on not taking the vaccine, these corporations and the government had to step in and say, listen, take the vaccine, or you're going to have to suffer the consequences. We're not going to subsidize your obstinance when it comes to believing that you don't have

to take the vaccine. If you want to spend a whole bunch of money on sea moss and vitamins and increasing your immune system, more power to you. But you're not going to be able to, without consequence, go into the emergency room and increase the medical costs for everybody in our company when it comes to corporations and their health care, because they have to pay for that. And the same thing with the government. And so we tried the thing. We tried the honorable system, the honor system with the masks. And all kind of people dropped the mask, and we saw a resurgence of COVID.

And so, unfortunately, you have to twist people's arms to do something that is really in their best interest. And some people will disagree that it's in their best interest. But even if you don't feel like it's in your personal best interest, I think it's indisputable that it's in the best interest of the country, that we have as many people vaccinated as possible, that we're taking as many preventative measures and trying to stunt this disease from taking off even more, and protecting those who actually have no choice but to not take the vaccine, like kids and like people with certain medical conditions. And so, if you have to push people's arms, hey, I think the country is actually still

mild compared to other places like Canada, which just recently instituted a ban on air or public transportation if you are not vaccinated. They're not even offering accommodation for you having a rapid test. You don't... If you're not vaccinated, you're not getting on a plane. You're not going on public transportation, period. So I still think that, when it comes to America, hey, maybe you can find a place that's not for vaccinations that you can work at. You don't have to work for the federal government. You still have a choice, but your choice has consequences, period. Well, we had, of course, we saw this couple out of Florida, Adrian, who were arrested.

They had a fake vaccination card when they flew to Hawaii. When they got on, they're in jail right now. So you see that happening. That's forging a federal document. Huh? That's forging a federal document. And? That's forging a federal document. And I think that's the thing that people don't understand. You run around, talk about your little fake vaccine cards.

You are violating the law. Oh, absolutely. And we've seen multiple stories of even health care professionals producing CDC cards fraudulently, like not having received a vaccine but being given a CDC card, or reproducing them and selling them illegally on things like eBay. Like, really? You think the federal government isn't out here monitoring the transactions of false documentation around vaccination.

You know, and it's not just employers that are jumping on the responsibility bandwagon. Insurance companies are now making you pay a larger portion of your hospital bill if you're unvaccinated and end up in the ICU with COVID complications, which I think is a reasonable, look, I'm not the one who's going to be banging a drum for big insurance companies, but this is a reasonable, this is a reasonable carve out that they're making because these folks are taking risks, not just with their lives, but with everybody else's lives and using up valuable healthcare resources in a time where it's not,

where folks are suffering from things that aren't just COVID. We also are seeing this impact in education, Greg. There are a lot of concerned professors out there as well when it comes to students returning to the classroom, kind of protocols that they actually have in place as well. Folks are putting out all sorts of things talking about there were, you know, you were having different, you know, strikes at Spelman. I reached out to Spelman. They said that it's actually

not happening. They laid out exactly what's going on with the fall classes. They will have in-class learning, but they have mandatory vaccinations requiring COVID-19 testing, symptom track and monitoring, contact tracing, mandatory mask wearing, frequent hand washing, disinfecting, physical distancing, isolation and quarantine measures. But again, you're a professor of these universities requiring folks to be back in class, just like you have what's happening in the NFL. People who are operating in close quarters, you know, it's, it's, it's beginning to get unwieldy in terms of what you're able to control and who to control. Yeah, I think it's almost impossible to manage, Roland, quite frankly. I mean, this November will mark 30 years since Magic Johnson announced he was HIV positive, and we all remember that and the shockwaves it sent through, whether it be Kirk Cousins with the Vikings or somebody else.

I suspect, Brother Watson, it's going to take a superstar getting COVID, maybe even dying, to finally send a message in what was a $16 billion profit industry in 2019 that made only $12 billion last year at the NFL. I mean, it's entertainment. And, you know, I've made the choice not to watch a snap since Kaepernick. But, yeah, I taught my first class over at Howard Law School last night in person. And I can tell you right now, I don't see how any entity, any of the 400 colleges that have required that all of us be vaccinated, and most of those colleges and universities, by the way, in states that were voted for Biden in the election, So most of my colleagues at HBCUs, most of our colleagues, brother, since you're on the faculty at Fisk, are in the Southern states, in those American apartheid states, being

forced back. And I have been talking to a lot of my colleagues. And I will tell you right now, whether it be students, staff or faculty at any of these schools, especially our black schools, there's no way to enforce everybody all the time. The best you could do with all the resources would be kind of spot checks, temperature checks maybe. Everybody's vaccination status has to be uploaded. And anybody who's been to the AUC knows the configuration of those schools. Spelman is behind the gate. They can do probably more than anybody. However,

what you're talking about is a consortium. Any student in the AUC can take a class at any of the schools. And as a member of the faculty who, for the first time since last March, stepped into a classroom last night masked up with the students who are masked up, I can tell you right now, not only was I nervous, not only are they nervous, but this is far from being settled. And I don't expect any administration to be able to give any policy statement at any university that will encompass the desires and the will of the faculty for two reasons. Number one, the faculty is never of one mind. And number two, particularly at Black schools, organizing faculty becomes a difficult proposition. That having been said, I suspect that the situation at Spelman, at Clark, at Morehouse, at Howard, at Claflin,

at all the schools, all HBCUs, is going to be like at those other schools, the Georgetowns, the Stanfords, wherever. It's going to be a fluid standard, because I read the piece that Spelman had on his website. It's 20-some pages. And on page two, it talks about extraordinary circumstances. None of us knows what that's going to do next week, the week after. And so I think what's going to end up happening is we're going to have to piece this out week by week, brother. But all of us are nervous and all of us are concerned, particularly those of you who send your children to us to be educated. Believe me, we're all on pins and needles, brother. And I... Adrian, go ahead.

Yeah, I also work in higher ed. That's my hat. I'm not wearing that hat today, but it is a hat that I wear. And these policies have to be fluid because ultimately the public health advisories that are coming from the cities and the counties and where each of these universities are is fluid. It's based on infection rates. It's based on hospitalization rates and the availability of ICU beds. There's a whole lot of factors that go into what create those advisories from the public health department. So, you know, just an anecdotal story from our campus, we had signs up. We were all ready, like, to tell everyone, look, if you're vaccinated, you don't have to wear a mask and things are great. And then literally five days after we got every single sign up on campus, a new advisory hit and we had to go back and replace all of those signs. So it's you got to keep a booklet, where folks are saying, we're going to be in control of our own destiny. So we're not going to wait because when it comes to anything governmental, you're not dealing with political ideology.

You're not dealing with political parties. You're not dealing with the base and people and their feelings. And so folks are saying, hey, you know what? Look, I've had folks get an attitude when I required vaccination for my company here. Here's my whole deal. Go start your own shit. No.

I mean, I'm sorry. Because at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I've got 15 people to protect. And those 15 people have husbands, wives, girlfriends, partners, children. They've got other relatives. And so you have to make decisions that's actually best for you. And again, I love the people who keep howling choice. Like Tank, you know, sent out, he put up this video and he got his ass dragged where he was talking about choice and stuff along those lines and, you know, and all this sort of stuff like this.

This is what is now on his Instagram page. Go to my computer. My personal decisions are none of your business. Enjoy the music, the general. Well, guess what? When you start running your mouth out there and then people respond, just like Kirk Cousins, they responded and he lost an endorsement from a hospital there in Minnesota.

When you had Jake Cutler, who ran his mouth about he didn't like mask mandates and Uber Eats said, holla at you later. And here's the deal, Ben, it's choices. And guess what? Those companies are gonna to have a choice whether to be in business with you based upon your choices. They do.

And choices always have consequences. I mean, I have seven children. And so my wife and I tell them all the time, your choices actually have consequences. Those seven children, well, five of them are school age and the school they went to two weeks ago, before school started, there was an optional mask mandate. And then before school started, it changed into a mandatory mask mandate for several weeks. And it's going to be fluid. That's the thing. I think that part of the frustration that

so many of us have is that we just don't have the solid, concrete information that we're used to having. I'll take it to the NFL. A lot of players were tweeting and upset a couple weeks ago when the NFL made that new memo because the expectation was, if I get this shot, I won't be tested. I won't get the virus. I won't be able to pass the virus. And as we've seen, people who are vaccinated't get the virus. I won't be able to pass the virus. And as we've seen, people who

are vaccinated can get the virus. Their symptoms, however, are nowhere near as what they would be if you didn't have it. They can also pass the virus. And so that's where we are right now. And I think you're absolutely right when you say that companies, corporations, they have to take care of the people that they're entrusted with taking care of. They have to make the right choice at the right time, which will allow their business to continue. And right now, that's to tell people to get the vaccine. But the frustrating part is that, the frustrating part, I'm sorry, the frustrating part is that it's been so politicized in the beginning, which it should not have been. And also, there's such an evolving recommendation coming from the experts that

people many times have a certain distrust. And it makes it difficult for those making decisions to make them. Well, let me say this here. And Ben, feel free to pass it on. If there is any NFL player who is confused or concerned about the details, tell them they should watch this damn show. Here's why. Here's why. And this is very basic for anybody who's watching. And I've heard other people talk about, oh, well, this was told and then things changed.

Yes, because that's what viruses do. Viruses wreak havoc. They create changes. And the thing is, last night we had Dr. Graves from North Carolina A&T on who specifically explained what happens when a number of people chose not to get vaccinated, how the virus mutates when it hops from one body to the other, and how it is it is forever changing it's a virus is constantly trying to figure out a new way to hurt more people based upon the previous person and so i think part of the problem here part of the problem here is that there are a lot of

americans white black latino asian native American I don't care who did a lot of people this is what is a problem where I think for love us Americans we want certainty if I take this shot I'm cured 100% I'm warden everything off no then they're like okay what's the deal well because they're thing called strains they're variants what do you mean's the deal? Well, because they're a thing called strains, they're variants. What do you mean there's a strain? I took the vaccine.

Yes, the vaccine that you took was specifically meant for the COVID-19, that particular virus. A new variant, you require a different type of vaccine. And I think that that's what's been driving me crazy when people, all people, listen, first of all, I don't listen to the idiot Joe Rogan, never. Okay? When he's trash and Fauci, oh, he's 100% wrong.

No, he's not. They are in a constant race. They are constantly trying to figure out where this thing is going. It literally is trying to catch a comet by the tail because you don't know where it's going next. And I think the problem for this country is we like for everything to be nice and neat in the box. Perfect. Here's the whole deal is all straight. Everything is just fine. No, it just doesn't happen that way.

And that's what's driving people crazy. And this is why I keep saying, we're going to keep putting black scientists and black doctors, people who are literally trained in this, discussing this. If I want to have an in-depth conversation about how to become an NFL all pro tight end, I'm probably going to call you, Ben. I'm not going to call that brother down the street,

okay, who got 38 followers, but he's dangerous with Google. And I just think that that's what the NFL did, which I think is important. They said to the players, oh, you got questions? Here are experts. Ask any of them questions. And a lot of players did that,

but you didn't have all of these, again, these YouTube doctors and these Google historians out here. And I hear your point about, you know, black folks in history when it came to medical stuff. But guess what? White folks are taking the same vaccine we taking. Right.

Same one. And so that's where I think credible voices. And I went on Tank's page and I said, Tank, your ass ain't no expert on singing, but not this shit. And so somebody just got to go ahead and say it.

Yeah. And to your point, I mean, that's why the NFL is at 92%. I mean, there's not another population. I mean, the general population is nowhere near that. And so you're right about the experts. We got experts together. We've had, I say't, there's not another population. I mean, the general population is nowhere near that. And so you're right about the experts. We got experts together. We've had, I say we, I'm retired now,

but I've been on some of the calls. They've had several calls with multiple medical experts to ask all the questions that you need. A lot of guys were concerned about their families. A lot of guys concerned they got pregnant wives, they've got little kids. Some guys, I even talked to guys that were in college over the last year, who some guys who actually opted out of their last college year and they're going into the NFL draft. Some of them opted out because they live with their grandmother. They wanted to take care of her.

And so the information is, is out there. And I agree with you a hundred percent, as far as the expectations, that's what's frustrating. But it's even more frustrating when you have a certain expectation and you feel like it's not met. And you wonder what you can do to trust the next recommendation. You got to keep pushing those things out. So I'm going to hit up. So go to my computer. I'm going to hit up Ebony.

And we're going to see if we can do this. And so Ebony Hilton sent this out. This was in response to these posts that bakari made excuse me that tank made bakari sell a slam tank for us and then she said i honestly feel a candid conversation on a big platform gonna help so many just go through questions i'm volunteering myself and she mentioned all these doctors so here's what we are going to do okay this is what we are going to do say so we now have the ability for us to be able to take calls um and so i think what we're going to do is and we're going to try to work it out uh we're going to try to pick a day next week to do exactly that whole two-hour show we're going to have real doctors, no disrespect to entertainers,

nobody who's in entertainment, nobody who's in sports, nobody who's dancing, real scientists and doctors. And folks, you got questions, fine. Ask them. That's what we're going to do because it has to happen

because there are too many people. I got two texts this week. Fraternity brother, again, brother refused to take a dog on vaccine. He did. Another guy who's sitting here, his best friend, wouldn't take the vaccine, wouldn't do anything. Guess what? His best friend's now planning his funeral. And so there are too many of us who can be living longer, but are making other choices.

So please have a gun if you try to do that. Ben Watson, I appreciate it, man. Thanks, sir. All right. Thank you so very much. Anytime. All right, folks, got to go to a break. We come back on Roland Martin Unfiltered more on today's show, including an update on what's happening in Haiti and Afghanistan.

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A rapper, you know, for the longest period of time has gone through phases. I love the word. I hate what it's become, you know, to this generation, the way they visualize it. Its narrative kind of, like, has gotten away and spun away from, I guess, the ascension of black people. Football bands and one of the best fan experiences in the country. The Cricket BX Swag Challenge kickoff returns to Atlanta on August 28th, along with special guests. College game day.

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the ability to focus the discipline on the art of organizing. The challenges, there's so many of them and they're complex. And we need to be moving to address them but i'm able to say watch out i know this road that is so freaking dope I'm Chrisette Michelle. Hi, I'm Chaley Rose, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, Greg, Reesey, and Adrian, how about this one?

In Alabama, a doctor says he ain't treating nobody unvaccinated. That's it. Jason Valentine, a physician at Diagnostic Medical Center Infirmary Health in Mobile, Alabama, posted a photo on Facebook this week of him painted pointing to a sign taped to a door informing patients of his new policy starting October 1st. The sign says that the Valentine will no longer see patients that are not vaccinated against COVID-19. Valentine says he came to his decision because COVID is a miserable way to die, and he cannot watch them die like that. Alabama, of course, reported 4,465 new coronavirus cases on Wednesday. The state has recorded more than 645,000 cases since the start of the pandemic. The thing here is that he said, Adrian, he can't do it for people who have actually turned him down.

He said, no, I'm sorry. If you're going gonna turn the vaccine down. I'm not gonna treat you. I've heard I've heard I was one it was one guy who was uh, it was a video that went viral They were tick-tock video and did like to me and he was mad as hell because his wife Has a particular illness and he and he said point-blank He said since y'all believe in God so much and since y'all say choice he said if you get sick he said play it out don't go to the hospital he said play it out he said if you don't this is what he said he said if you don't believe the doctors and you don't believe the scientists play that thing out y'all go ahead and roll it hey folks how you doing i just got a quick question about this whole COVID,

not getting vaccinated and running to the fucking hospital once you get the virus fucking deal, because this shit is out of fucking control, all right? And I'm going to give you a quick story on why I think it's out of fucking control. Last week, I had to bring my wife into the hospital. She has stage 4 breast cancer. She was dealing with some symptoms,

and I had to bring her in to get some fluid drained she was having some pain she was in there for two days on the third day she honestly should have stayed one more day maybe two more days okay but on the third day instead of draining her fluid and what they wanted to do they had to just they told us that she had to be discharged because they had no room left in the hospital because of covid here's my question why 99 of everybody that's in the hospital with covid right now is unvaccinated okay if you really fucking believe that covid's not real and you really believe that's not a big deal and you really believe that we don't that you don't need to get the vaccine that is your fucking right okay i'm not going to argue with you about

that what i am going to argue with about is you running to the fucking hospital once you get the virus if you don't trust the medical field to prevent you from getting it why do you trust them to cure you from it why do you run to the fucking hospital if you really believe that covid's not a big deal and it's not this that the other and you don't get the vaccine because stick to your fucking guns and keep your motherfucking ass at home stop running to the hospital putting everybody else at fucking risk and in turn the collateral damages people like my wife who actually need medical fucking help for a chronic fucking disease get kicked out of the hospital because your dumb ass is too stupid to go get a fucking vaccine shot. Keep your ass at home. If you really believe

COVID's not a big deal, prove it. Stick to your fucking guns, keep your ass at home, and fucking deal with it. Well, I think I'm going to start with Reesey because I think he went to the Reesey school of viral videos. I think I heard to the Reesey school of viral videos.

I think I heard at least 28 F-bombs, three or four MFs in there. And so, you get to comment first. Well, you know, I completely can't empathize with where he's coming from. I don't know

if people remember last year, the whole reason why we shut down as a country was because we don't have the capacity to deal with a surge in hospitalizations. I guess people forgot about the tents in the garages and the ship that had to come to New York and the mobile morgues that were established because of the amount of people that were dying. We don't have an unlimited amount of hospital capacity. In fact, as of yesterday, there were five states that have over 90 percent ICU capacity. Alabama, the state of that doctor who's refusing to treat people who are unvaccinated, has 99.3 percent ICU capacity. And that does that. So that means if you

have cancer, if you have a heart attack, if you have a car accident, any kind of situation that requires medical attention, you're fighting with people in the hospital who refuse to take the vaccine, period. And it is a little bit unfair to those folks, because there are people who have preexisting conditions that make them immunocompromised, so that they can't take the vaccine. And because of their immunocompromised position, they need more medical treatment that they cannot get. At some places, elective surgeries are being canceled again. And so this is a problem. This is creating a burden on our medical system. And that's why we have the concept, like I said earlier, of public health. It's not just a matter of personal choice, because people on a personal level cannot always

be compelled to do the right thing for a society at large. So I completely empathize with his frustration. And one other thing I want to say, too, is, I'm trying to not be completely cold hearted about this, because I really do find it heartbreaking that we are seeing more and more stories about people who are unvaccinated that are dying. I just saw a story yesterday, a 49-year-old Black woman who's a teacher in Florida. She took her entire family to get vaccinated, but she did not get vaccinated herself. And now she's died of COVID. It's tragic. It's heartbreaking. Dr. Ebony Jade Hilton yesterday shared a statistic about how 123,000, 120,000 children are now orphans because they have lost their parents to COVID. And we're at a position where this

is preventable largely by taking the vaccine. And it is a choice to not take it. But that choice is impacting so many people who don't have a choice, but to put their fate in the hands of people doing what's best for society. And so it's very scary. And the one other point I want to make about that teacher is that her family stated that one of the reasons why she didn't take or the main reason she didn't take the vaccine is because she heard information that she was uncomfortable with. And that goes back to the thing that I have been screaming about on this show for years

now is that disinformation is a deadly force in our communities. And the things like the Tuskegee experiment are being weaponized to detract us and deter us from taking the vaccine, even though Black people have a disproportionately higher hospitalization rate and mortality rate from the vaccine. And so we have to fight back against this disinformation that is really exacerbating this hesitancy that people might naturally have. And we have to try to save some of these lives because people are being indoctrinated or fooled by this really, really insidious disinformation that is permeating our communities.

So, Adrienne, is the doctor, is he right or is he wrong? You know, I was reading the article. I saw a lot of folks citing, oh, you took a Hippocratic oath to do no harm. And it's like, well, yeah, but that didn't come with definitions and it didn't come with a series of clauses or corollaries. It says do no harm. And in his eyes, he's doing no harm. He's not allowing unvaccinated, very dangerous people, carriers of this disease to come into contact and contaminate his work environment with his other patients, potentially some of which who can't literally for health reasons get vaccinated. So, no, I think if you're going to be in this environment of woo, woo, woo, personal choice, personal choice, oh I think if you're going to be in this environment of woo-woo-woo, personal

choice, personal choice, oh, except if you're a doctor, like, or except if you're a woman who has to make a really serious decision with her own body regarding pregnancy, no, you can't pick and choose where your personal choice applies for your own benefit and for your own, you know, self-interest. It's either personal choice or it isn't. So, you know, I just, that piece really frustrates me because the same people who say personal choice don't believe the same thing when it comes to women's bodies. Now, the doctor leveraging social media to make his point, I think, is valid.

I think it's important that the medical community starts fighting back against folks who refuse to accept the science, like the gentleman very colorfully said, who refuse to accept the science of vaccines but then want to bang down the door for an ICU bed. I think the medical community fighting back is valid and important. Greg, doctor, is he right or is he wrong? Fair or unfair? I don't know if it's a question of fair or unfair, Roland, quite frankly. Certainly you can go down the road to Tuskegee where they have a whole bioethics center and debate the question of the ethics of a doctor saying he's not going to treat somebody that's sick. But I agree with you, Adrian. I think that in the state of Alabama, of course, it's legal. But something Ben Watson said a minute ago is very important.

This is political. There's two separate things going on that overlap. One is the science. And Dr. Hilton has talked about it. And you have been saying it since the beginning of this. We all knew this was coming. You've been talking about it nonstop. And so we know that we don't have cures in our arms with the vaccines. It just means we may be asymptomatic now if we get it, or we're not going to go to the hospital. As I'm sitting in class again last night, you know, everybody's masked up. And I'm saying, we might have COVID in here right now. There's not the infrastructure to test everybody every day. And even if there weren't, we got it, and you quarantined and went home. That's one thing. And, but with the variant, and we're starting to see breakthroughs now,

you might even, it may be the Delta variant gets you or the Lambda variant gets you or so forth and so on. But that's a whole universe of conversation. The other conversation, and Watson brought it up, is a political conversation. The White Nationalist Party in this country has decided that its best shot to capture the federal government in 2022 and then 2024 is to embrace this weaponized COVID and use its followers as literal human shields to force their way back into public office. And so Biden's response today telling Cardona, you know, go and exert the federal apparatus through the Department of Education on these states, that is a response that is partially political. They're trying to get to the elections of 22 and 24. That's what Abbott is doing.

That's what DeSantis is doing in Texas and Florida. They are literally rallying this for political points. Now, the only wild card in this is that week-by-week wild card that we have been talking about, Adrienne, you just said, because as this virus that doesn't recognize race or politics continues to make us sick and kill us, we are in a race literally against time. And what the white nationalists have calculated is they're willing to take that risk. So, when Kay Ivey in Alabama says, well, what else can I do? I can't tell them to take it. I didn't told them to take it. No, you didn't tell them to take it early on. You made a political

calculation to put your white nationalist followers on the line. And now that they're dying, the thing that might break this up is those white people and those Black people and those other people who come to their senses when somebody in their family gets sick or dies, worse if they're the carrier, vaccinated, unvaccinated, to kill somebody. But, frankly, none of us, none of us know how this is going to turn out. There is no road map, but there are two separate things playing, and a lot of it is overlapping. There's the science and the medicine, and there's the politics. And we have to be very clear about that. And to Roland Martin and Filch's credit, you've been clear about it from day one.

Absolutely. Can I say one more thing? Oh. Hold on. Adrian, then Recy. Go. Really quickly, to your point, those are the folks who have that literally front-door death experience, whose stories aren't being told on the news outlets that these anti- or vaccine-hesitant folks are watching.

Fox News isn't telling the story of this young couple who passed away. It's CNN. It's BBC. But that's not the platforms that these folks are watching. And I just, you know, how do we compel Fox News to tell these stories? Like, good luck with that. I struggle to figure out how we send those messages. Recy? Can I?

Yeah, so let me just say this. For all of the talk about the inequities in the health care system and the justifiable mistrust that Black people have in the health care system and in the government, the vaccine is the most race-neutral solution that is out there. It's free. It's readily available. And there is, I won't say no discrimination, because, at the reality, there are some ways that people might not have the ability to take the vaccine.

But it is as neutral as it gets. So that's something that can prevent you from being hospitalized or even dying or having a severe case of it. Now, on the flip side, the treatment side, now, that's where all of the inequities come in, because you have somebody like Governor Greg Abbott, who has had a third booster shot, which is not available to the general public. And he had Regeneron. He had a monoclonal antibody. And I know somebody who who who has COVID and they they were vaccinated. So thank God they didn't have a severe case, but they were able to get Regeneron. But you know that they I would say they had to they had to jump through so many hoops. Now, if you think that as you, a regular,

shmegular Black person who's not insured and who can barely get into an ER is going to get a very expensive treatment like Regeneron to save your life, you're delusional. So all of the paranoia and justifiable mistrust and distrust that you have in the government and the healthcare system, apply that to the treatment side, because that's where we are absolutely seeing the disparities in race and the disparities in the access that people have. And so if you have to throw your lot in with trusting one side or another, I would rather throw my lot in with the most neutral solution, something that has been administered 4.8 billion times around the world, and that is the vaccine. Not trying to

hang my hat on getting access to Regeneron, which is something that has thousands of doses, perhaps, throughout the entire state in some states, and it's not even available everywhere. So that's just something to think about. What's neutral? The vaccine. Or what's not neutral? The treatment. All right, folks. Got to go to break. We come back. We're going to talk about business. What's the Biden administration doing to ensure we a break. We come back. We're going to talk about business. What's the Biden administration doing to ensure we get some of that $1.2 trillion infrastructure money? We'll discuss that next with the top official of the Commerce Department. But before we do that, let's hear from our partners with Seek.com. Thank you. We'll be right back. 360 degree video as well as virtual reality video just pop your phone right into here close it up and then you can see that vr content they got different color vr headsets this one is uh blue

and white y'all sigmas will love that one uh of course i prefer the black and gold one that's the one i have at the house uh you also of course i have their headphones uh greg you'll like these here they got the black and gold headphones but greg you greg you might like these here. They got the black and gold headphones, but Greg, you might like these all gold ones right here. You might like these right here. 360-degree sound as well. You can use this for gaming. You can use this, of course, for music as well, watching movies, all that good stuff.

Use the promo code RMVIP21, RMVIP21, if you want to actually get one of these two products. And, of course, when you purchase them, resources, a portion of that comes back to us here at Roland Martin Unfiltered. I'll be back in a moment. George Floyd's death hopefully put another nail in the coffin of racism. You talk about awakening America. It led to a historic summer of protest.

I hope our younger generation don't ever forget that nonviolence is soul force. I hope so. Football bands and one of the best fan experiences in the country the cricket bx challenge kickoff returns to atlanta on august 28th along with special guests college game day then alcorn state takes on north carolina central with conference bragging rights on the line center park stadium is the place to be on August 28th. Come tailgate all day before enjoying a primetime matchup on the gridiron. You don't want to miss this. Check out me at swagchallenge.com for more information. It's just about hurting black folk. Right. You got to deal with it. It's injustice. It's wrong.

I do feel like in this generation, we've got to do more around being intentional and resolving conflict. You and I have always agreed. Yeah. But we agree on the big piece. Yeah. Now, conflict is not about destruction. Conflict's going to happen.

I'm Bill Duke. This is DeOlla Riddle, and you're watching Roland Martin, Unfiltered. Stay woke. Trillions of dollars will be spent on infrastructure in the United States. The question is, how much of that is going to flow towards African Americans? That was the question I posed to Dan Graves, who is a, Don Graves, I'm sorry, who's a top official deputy secretary for the Commerce Department of the Biden administration. Here's our conversation.

Secretary Graves, glad to have you on Roller Martin Unfiltered. Let's get right to it. One of the things that our audience keeps focusing on is the impact for African-Americans when it comes to this economy, especially when it comes to federal contracting, when it comes to this infrastructure bill. How is that being made a priority? Well, Roland, thanks for having me on. I guess I'll just start by saying this has been a priority of the president since day one, and actually long before day one. He knows that our economy can't be successful until every community in the country is've seen the numbers. If you look at the economic impact of inclusive opportunities in providing those opportunities to black businesses and other minority businesses, that can lead to tens, excuse me, to trillions of dollars of increased GDP. So it's absolutely essential that we do this right now. That's why the president

has focused on his Build Back Better agenda. It's why the infrastructure plan is so important right now. We need to get these dollars into communities, these investments to improve our roads, our bridges, to improve our drinking water by removing the lead pipes, by investing in broadband so that every community in the country has access to affordable, accessible, high-speed broadband. And we have to do it in a way that utilizes minority businesses. The Black businesses that for so long have been kept out of these types of opportunities, we're very focused on ensuring that every one of them has a better chance than they've had in the past, that our procurement folks are very focused

on finding ways to bring more Black businesses to the table as these dollars go out. And it's something that the president did in the very first days of office, signing an executive order that made sure that diversity, equity, and inclusion were a significant part of every federal department in their procurement, in their hiring. So the president and the rest of us in the federal government are very focused on finding the ways that we can make sure that Black businesses have the opportunities that

they need to succeed. They can hire folks from the community, and the community overall can see more economic vitality. That was a column that ran yesterday in Barron's. It was written by Ursula Burns, Robert Smith, John Rogers, and David Clooney, of course, is the director of the Black Economic Exchange. And one of the things that they wrote in that particular piece is that they said that this is what they wrote. Currently, only 5 percent of federal contracting dollars are required to go to minority and women owned businesses, even though black people alone account for approximately 13 percent. They are calling for that to account for approximately 13 percent. They are calling for that to be raised to 13 percent. They also say that there needs to be much better transparency in corporate spending by professional services category. So there are a number of things that

they actually laid out there. And so is that also being considered because, as they say, that 5% number is way too low? Well, they're exactly right. That number is way too low. We are certainly looking at ways that we can increase the direct spending with minority businesses. and make sure that every federal contractor, as they look at their contracting partners, that they're looking at utilization of minority firms. But as my friends wrote in that column, it's also about things like utilization of asset managers with the pension funds that the federal government oversees.

It's looking at ways that we can ensure that there's diversity at the highest ranks of major corporations, because that's where the decision-making is done around which contractors, excuse me, which businesses are used in their supply chain. It's making sure, and this is what the president has been really focused on, making sure that every federal agency represents the diversity of our country so that we're putting people of color in the highest positions in federal agencies because they're the ones who are going to be making both the contracting and hiring decisions, but also the policy decisions that will have an impact on whether or not our communities of color all across the country are going to be able to succeed and be built into this this grand bargain. But Secretary Grayson, but that is one of the really difficult things that we still see trying to get over that hump. I can tell you we have had a very difficult time as a black-owned media company even trying to access the millions of dollars being spent when it came to communications for the COVID-19 vaccine. We have reached out to Forrest Marsh, the agency that actually has the contract with Department of Health and Human Services and CDC. No luck whatsoever. And so

I think what's also important, and I've had this conversation with Susan Rice, with Cedric Richmond and others, and what has to happen is really listening to those of us who are a part of the process to show where the pitfalls are, because what we're still seeing is that for us, Black targeted, Black media folks get dollars, not Black owned. And so those barriers have to be broken down. And when we see there's a study that was done, a commission or call for by Congressman Eleanor Holmes Norton three years ago, that showed the $5 billion spent in federal government over five years, just $51 million went to Black owned media. And so the disparities are

even there with the federal government. And so what success stories have you already had in breaking down some of those barriers? Well, Roland, I couldn't agree more. And part of this is about making more of this information available, transparent, and accessible. We here at the Department of Commerce, a lot of people think of us as the department that focuses on business. But what I like to think about is that we're actually the department of data, information, and innovation. And we really need to be the department of people and communities. So it's making the data that we have available around business practices, making more information available about how businesses utilize minority businesses. That information can help us reframe

the discussion and the debate. I think you've seen the numbers that I have, but I think if we have better information that the Department of Commerce can help provide around the specific practices that businesses take in utilizing minority businesses, engaging with minority businesses, that we're going to have a very different conversation. But it's also doing things like with our Minority Business Development Agency, which we hope and expect once the infrastructure bill is passed, we'll get a significant plus up in funding. Because it's gonna require, I mean, you said it,

so many businesses weren't able to participate in things like PPP program and other COVID related programs. Part of that is because they didn't have the credit and capital, even when they had the know how, they didn't have access to the funding to be able to grow to handle those types of contracts. But it's also providing those businesses with the type of support that they need in legal, accounting, and in financial services. Because I talk to businesses all the time who have said, well, I couldn't get the PPP program to work for me because I couldn't fill out the paperwork because I didn't have my

charter documents. They weren't right. Or I didn't have the five years or so of my tax returns ready. So it's a range of things that we can do, but it takes a whole of government approach. So every single agency in the federal government working together to increase access, increase opportunity, provide more capital, provide more technical support, and having the buy-in at the very highest level of every single agency. I can tell you at Commerce, I spend just a massive amount of my time focused on ensuring that we have equitable opportunities and that we have a more just economy. Well, we certainly look forward to that. And we also, with that $1.2 trillion being spent, we'll be looking for that to be really studied to make sure that those dollars are going flowing to Black-owned companies. And so, Secretary Graves, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Thanks so much, Roland. Bottom line is here, Recy. It's a lot of money that's going to be spent. They better make sure that gets in the hand of Black people. TAMMY BROWN- Absolutely. And I'm going to actually invoke John Hope Bryant, who you have had on the show many times. The government contracting process is very complicated. It's all about how requisitions are written. It can be written in a way that our proposal, you know, our request for proposals are written. It could be written in a way to further narrow down the group

who are eligible for it. And so people need to go out there and get the money, and they have to make sure that they follow the protocols and the proposal process so that they can invoke it. But it's also important that the administration takes the initiative into channeling some of this money into organizations that can then get this money into the hands of Black businesses, minority-owned businesses. So I think that it's a complicated process. It's not going to be a snap your fingers and it's resolved type of thing. But I think it is encouraging that they do have a lens towards

Black-owned businesses, as opposed to the Trump administration, in which 400,000 Black businesses were shut down as a result of the COVID pandemic. And Black businesses in particular were disproportionately denied the PPP loans and things of that nature. So there's a lot of ways to go. But I have seen from several different cabinet officials and different agencies that the Biden-Harris administration is looking at ways at making government funds more equitable. Adrian, go ahead. I think you'll jump in. Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to add on to some of your points. I mean, part of the reason, well,

one reason why Black businesses didn't get access to some of the PPP loans is the speed of their internet. Literally became a factor in access to those dollars. Also to add on in terms of the nuance of government contracting, because this is part of a background that I have, is licensing, insurance, and bonding. Bonding is the key. Most Black businesses capable of doing government work don't have the bonding, and that's because they're not given access to it. They're not shown how to access it at the level that the government requires. So what I would love to see some of these dollars going to is a pipeline program that would really give access to these businesses the bonding and the level of insurance required to do government contracting. So good. Greg. No, you know, Adrienne, it's so funny you

say that. I remember at Mary and Barry's funeral, listening to very successful Black business people, and one in particular, a builder in the area, now a billionaire, I believe, if my memory is correct, who says it was Marion Barry insisting on Black lawyers who could write bond, who could underwrite an insurance, and who could get in the pipeline and going in meetings and saying, until I see a certain percentage of black faces in this room, D.C. is not doing business with you. That created that kind of—and so that raises two things. And, Roland, this is why I think this segment is so important in its various kind of permutations, including—but I love this phrase that you've

created that kind of precedes this kind of conversation. Where's our money? Not one penny of what we've been talking about belongs to the federal government, including their salaries. We paid taxes, you see. So while every billionaire in the world is stealing, I mean, I read the Financial Times every day, the mergers and acquisitions are off the chain. Now they're in—today's Financial Times was dealing with futures, the biggest futures company in the world, absorbing another of its former subsidiaries to build it. They are going stratospheric, and inequality is expanding. The people who need this money the most, who've paid taxes, are the ones who, as Recy just said and as we just heard again, Adrienne, you just said, they have the least access to it.

That's not an accident, as you said, Recy, John O'Brien said. That's by design. The infrastructure is set up to reward those people who have the lobbyists, who have bought the elected officials, who write that policy to make sure you don't have the kind of access. What Marion Barry did was puncture that a little bit. But then we have a problem. And this is why everybody who gives to Roland Martin Unfiltered, please listen very carefully to what I'm about to say. Because many of those people that Marion Barry made millionaires fled Washington, D.C., and ain't done a damn thing for Black people except try to say, look at me, I'm successful, which means the race is successful. The businesses that invest in black communities like Roland Martin Unfiltered must be the ones that we support while this war is being waged to get our money back. That's the other

step to this. That's why you have to support black businesses, because so few of them survive when that inequality is going on. But those who are struggling to survive will have the platform to push for it. You really got to support them, because some of these Negroes don't run off with the money and ain't doing nothing except going hanging out somewhere where you can't get in, talking about, look at us, we succeeded, so black people succeeded. Now, that ain't the math, bro.

And what people don't understand is, like, I'll give a perfect example. I saw a story earlier today where Prince O'Hare, the CEO of Black News Channel, announced they may be moving, you know, BNC to Atlanta. Okay, that's great, but here's the deal. And facts are facts. The majority owner of BNC ain't black. It's Shahid Khan, the Pakistani-American billionaire who owns the Jacksonville Jaguars.

That's no different than ViacomCBS owning BET. That's no difference than iHeartRadio owning Black Information Network. I do commentary. It's on there, but it's no different. That's no different than Complex. Okay, all these people going toward Complex saying, if you want to reach Black people online, buy from Complex. They're not, none of the people are black owned. And so, what they're really saying is, hey, y'all should be comfortable

getting a check, not ownership. And that's the whole piece there. And so, in that story, they mentioned they have 320 employees. Okay? That's because he's invested some $50, $75 million into it. To your point, Greg, I ain't had no billionaire come to me and say,

hey, Roland, what could you do with $25 million? Oh, I know exactly what I could do with $25 million. That's why, again, why I was pressing Secretary Don Graves, why I pressed on these advertising dollars. And it cracks me up, Greg, these idiotic folk commenting, why you always begging? Why you

always, they don't have to spend money with us. But guess what? Your ass buying their products. How about that? This is really what this requires, Reesey. And I've said this for a very long time. What we're trying to do here is a reprogramming of black America.

Black America, from the moment we got here, we were programmed to be slaves. We were programmed to be slaves. We were programmed to create excitement and make other people happy. We were programmed to dance and sing for the entertainment of other people. We are America's greatest tastemakers. We could take what was called an orthopedic shoe, and now all of a sudden it turned into Tim's. And next thing you know,

it's the hottest thing that folk want to wear. Now you got shoes that growing up, we were like, man, wasn't nobody wearing them construction shoes? Greg, you know,

if your ass rolled a school in them cuz they're like, your ass got on some construction, you got on some mustard color construction shoes. Don't do it, that's right. Now all of a sudden, my God, it's that we could take anything and make that sucker hot. Crocs. But the difference- How sucker hot. Crocs. But the difference.

How did they turn Crocs into a shoe? That's what I'm saying. I like Crocs. Yeah, yeah, because somebody black made it hot. But the thing here is there has to be a reprogramming. We have to reprogram our people to stop being happy accepting a check and learn how to actually get a direct deposit, how to endorse checks. See, that's the difference. And so that's really what the focus is is and why we're so adamant and calling

companies out who run ads for us to buy on black targeted media but don't want to cut black owned media in on the budgets well rolling i have two points to make the first point is um to dr car's point about lobbyists so what you're doing is really what lobbyists get paid a lot of money to go and sit in these very expensive steakhouses or go and sit in these cigar-filled, and I like cigars, don't get me wrong, filled lounges and hobnob with those that are in power. And so they are granted an audience because they have the money. Well, Black people, we got to get the money before we can have the money to have an audience with you. And so they are granted an audience because they have the money. Well, Black people, we got to get the money before we can have the money to have an audience with you. And so what you're doing is you're doing a public pressure campaign.

And so it works both ways. A lot of times the lobbying, the behind-the-scenes stuff and the will-and-deal-and-works, and then other times you have to name and shame people into doing the right thing. And so I have absolutely no problem. Actually, I encourage you to do that. And what you're doing is actually helping people beyond just your business. It's helping Black media. And I think it's helping open some people's eyes to the fact that a closed mouth does not get fed. This is not charity. Nobody is going to give Black media or Black people anything just to be

nice. They're going to do it because there is an impetus for that. This whole racial reckoning that we had and people were, you know, donating money, Black Lives Matter, I think, what did they get, $30 million or $300 million or some very large amount people were upset about? They did that because that was something that they could... Oh, Van Jones, yeah, Van Jones got $100 dollars from jeff bezos which is absurd but all of this is because there's a look to it they have to do that for for pressure and all things like that like i said it's not altruism so i i think that what you're doing is absolutely necessary and the second point i want to make is something i've made several times on the show is that black people are the validators of this country where the trendset trendsetters. We're the tastemakers, as you just said. Black Twitter is something that can make or break a show, a movie,

et cetera. And so we have power that we can harness. We make or break political campaigns and candidates. And we have to harness that power a lot better. And people that have the power, that have the platform, like the tanks, like the Eddie Griffiths, et cetera, et cetera, I can go on, Laila Ali even the other day was posting some things, they could lend their platform to what Dr. Ebony Jade Hilton said, for instance, which is convening a bunch of Black doctors and experts and have these conversations. But they won't, because that's not something that they find to be particularly popular or profitable with their audience. And so instead of making information and facts and science profitable and popular, they choose to side with the other side. Instead of making entrepreneurship and, as you said,

Roland, endorsing checks popular, they are happy with getting crumbs and going along just to get along. But that is not what's going to benefit our community. It's not going to benefit our collective and keep us alive and keep us thriving. Well, again, what I need people to understand is this is reprogramming. This is retraining our minds. I'm going to end y'all with this here. I mean, look, several years ago, my nephew Chris, who's now going to middle school, when we were, it was after the Houston Texans football game, Chris probably was, I don't know, three, not even four years old. And we were, after the game, we were talking,

and Bum Phillips' son, Wade Phillips, was the defensive coordinator, and Chris had a football, and he hand for Wade to sign and Wade said, so Chris, you're gonna grow up to be a linebacker. I said, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I said, Wade, Chris is not being raised to be a linebacker. He's being raised to be an owner. And he sort of looked at me i was like yes he's being raised to be the owner of the football team not the player folks that's reprogramming they want us and i i told you when i was in l.a uh at stevie stevie wonder station this black woman who worked there she was in accounting or something and she would showing me a picture of her son. She said, that's my first rounder.

I said, don't ever say that again. She said, what do you mean? I said, no, don't ever, don't you call your son that's my first rounder. I said, what you should be saying is that's the future owner of the Lakers. And she literally said, oh my God. She says, no one has ever said that to me.

I say it because that's the point. They want you raising your son to be a player, not a player. Folk, that's how we have to do it. That's why we do what we do on this show. Reesey, Adrian, and Greg, thank you so very much. Folks, please support us in what we do every single day, and that is to give you the kind of content, honest, truthful, unapologetic,

you're not going to get anywhere else. Join our Bring the Funk fan club. Let me give a shout-out right now to the folks who gave during the show. Let's see here. Larnell Farmer, Garrett Murray, Joel Clark, James Yates, Camille Yeverton. I certainly appreciate it. Jerry Williams, thanks a lot.

Also, let me thank Donna Minor as well. Let's see. Tommy Williams, thanks a bunch as well. If y'all want to support, again, what we do, join via Cash App. Download us at RMUnfiltered. PayPal is RMartinunfiltered, Venmo is rmunfiltered, Zelle, Roland at RolandisMartin.com, Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. Folks, thank you so very much.

Tommy Williams, thanks a bunch. You got your donation right in under the belt there. I appreciate it. Thank you so very much, folks. I'll see y'all tomorrow right here, same time, same place. Y'all know what we, same time, same place. Y'all know what we're going to do. Keep it real.

And shout out to my high school, Jack Yates High School. I was rocking it yesterday, and so I'm wearing the JY shirt today. Ha! I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1.

Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems on Drugs podcast. Last year,

a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that in a little bit, man. We met them at their homes.

We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes

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