#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Repubs to defund 1619 Project; Amazon's $150M Black biz initiative; Black woman against CRT speaks

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

6.15.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Repubs attempt to defund 1619 Project; Amazon launches $150M Black biz initiative; Historian Carl Mack is here to discuss why he opposes making Juneteenth a state holiday; Black woman who is against Critical Race Theory in education speaks; Doug Jones will join us to talk about unsolved murder cases of Black Americans during the civil rights era; Crazy a$$ woman in a Ross store explodesSupport #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Today is Tuesday, June 15, 2021. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton and his conservative cohorts have introduced a bill to defund the 1619 Project curriculum. I'm sorry. I thought y'all were against cancel culture and you didn't like defunding things. Oh, but now you want to defund that. Also, Texas Democrats on Capitol Hill today pushing the Democratic Caucus to pass H.R. 1. Guess who didn't show up to the lunch? Kristen Sinema and Joe Manchin.

Hmm. Remember the black woman who told the Board of Education in Florida she opposes critical race theory in education? Well, she's gonna join us to tell us why. And Amazon is launching a $150 million black business accelerator program for third party sellers on the site.

We'll talk with one of their vice presidents about this initiative. Plus, the Small Business Administration is halting relief funds for minority owned businesses after white business owners sued the administration. Hmm, ain't that something. Minority businesses barely get any support and white folks still sue. Plus, that's right. We'll talk with the former U.S. Senator from Alabama, Doug Jones.

He will join us to talk about unsolved murder cases of black Americans during the civil rights era. Plus, historian Carl Mack is here to discuss why he opposes making Juneteenth a national holiday. Plus, today's crazy-ass white person comes to us from Ross Story in St. Louis. It's time to bring the funk on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Let's go. on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling.

Best believe he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks, he's rolling. It's Uncle Roll-Royale. It's Rolling

Martin. Rolling It's Rollin' Martin Rollin' with Rollin' now He's funky, he's fresh, he's real The best you know, he's Rollin' Martin Martin Martin! Well, how trash-ass is Senator Christian Sinema and Joe Manchin when Texas Democrats come to the U.S. Capitol today to actually implore Senate Democrats

to pass House Bill 1, to pass the John Lewis Act, they have a luncheon on Capitol Hill. All Democrat senators show up, except Kristen Sinema and Joe Manchin. I'm just trying to understand how arrogant they are. And check this out. Then a couple of the state officials from Texas

meet with Senator Joe Manchin. Oh, I'm sorry. They don't meet with him. They meet with his staff. He wouldn't even meet with them. Do y'all see how shameful and despicable this is? Let's go to my panel. Ben Dixon, host of the Benjamin Dixon Show podcast.

Teresa Lundy, principal founder of TML Communications. Mustafa Santaygo Ali, Ph.D., former senior advisor for environmental justice, EPA. And so we're also efforting to get one of those state officials on the show to talk about their meetings on Capitol Hill today. But Ben, how trash, how pathetic and shameful is Kristen Sinema and Joe Manchin when these Texas Democrats come to Capitol Hill to talk about how they thwarted the passage of a Republican-led voter suppression bill, and these two don't even show up for the luncheon. All 48 other Democrat senators show up, but these two don't. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. And Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, they have shown us repeatedly exactly who they are. They might have the Democrat D by their name, but they're certainly

there on behalf of the Republican Party. When they reach across the aisle, they're not reaching across the aisle to get Republicans to turn in our favor. They're continuously reaching towards us to pull us closer to the Republican Party. And the fact that they would not show up to these meetings this morning means that there's a certain level of condescension, casual dismissal of not only elected officials. But if they did this to elected officials, imagine what they do to the people. And so they feel like they have no responsibility whatsoever to answer on behalf or answer to the people because they don't feel like they have to answer to the other elected officials. I mean, it's unbelievable, Teresa, when you see just how shameful these two are. So you are too good to attend the luncheon, to listen to these Texas Democrats describe in

detail, describe in detail the voter suppression bills. That's just unbelievable. And again, this is the, I'm going to pull this up, this is the tweet from Ari Berman, who is a voting rights journalist. Manchin and Sinema didn't attend Senate Dem lunch where Texas Democrats spoke about need to pass for the People Act to stop GOP voter suppression. Yeah, I totally agree with my colleague. If they do show you who you are, it doesn't matter, you know, if you're an elected position or if you're just a regular citizen, these individuals just showed that they just didn't care.

And it's just interesting to see because we are such in a critical space right now where, you know, even if we don't take the listening component about the bill, I think we're, you know, even missing the mark when we start looking at some of these elected officials on what we are asking them to do. You know, we already know half of them, you know, read legislation and when they co-sponsor it. So to not even take a lunch, just a slap in the face to everybody who voted for them. This is one of the folks out there who responded, Mustafa. Manchin didn't bother to meet with Texas Democrats regarding the damage that new Texas voting laws't bother to meet with Texas Democrats regarding the

damage that new Texas voting laws would do to Texans if the For the People Act doesn't pass. What is wrong with that man? Well, you know, it's just, it's extremely disrespectful. You know, Senator Manchin has shared with the country that he still had folks he wanted to talk to. He wanted to garner more information so that he could make an informed decision. And he wants to go through this process. But yet folks who are in the thick of it in Texas spent their time, spent their resources to actually come to Washington, D.C. and have substantive conversations about what's going on in their respective states. And he's shown you exactly how he feels about these individuals and many others who have been advocating for him to actually begin to move forward in a way that is actually more protective of the country. So this is nothing new. You know,

he will continue to share with folks, you know, that, you know, that he's still trying to, you know, get everybody's perspective. So I guess what he's really saying is that these folks' perspective is not that important to his overall analysis. This here was a tweet that Ari Berman put out. 68% of Americans support For the People Act, including a majority of Republicans. It has bipartisan support among the public. Reporters should point that out when GOP senators lie that it isn't popular. Ben, it's amazing what happens when you got facts.

Right. But, I mean, it shows the extent to which they're willing to ignore the facts. They're willing to distort the truth. They're willing to use half-truths, not only the Republican Party, but Sinema and Manchin. Because if you think about it, there's always about this 30% of Americans voting electorate that aligns with the bigotry, the absurdity, they align with Trumpism, they align in opposition to H.R. 1. So who is Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin?

Who are you really serving? Because you're not even serving a majority of Republicans. You're serving that faction, that far right-wing faction that does not want black people to vote in this country. So how do they expect us to see them as allies when they're aligning with our enemies? Especially when you won't even meet with the state legislators who can give you an understanding of what's happening. The right. The right. The right. Joe, excuse me, Don Winslow has put out this video targeting Senator Joe Manchin. I'm going to play that in a second. But right now, I want to go to one of the Texas state representatives

who, of course, was on Capitol Hill today meeting with lawmakers, trying to get them to do the right thing on these very issue. And so joining us now is Representative Jasmine Crockett. Glad to have you here on Roller Mountain Unfiltered. Thank you so much. So first of all, how many of you, how many officials from Texas, Texas Democrats, came here to Capitol Hill to meet with Senate Democrats to explain to them what went on in Texas. The overall number is around 15 of us. And so there was a luncheon today with Senate Dems? Yes, there was.

How did that go? Because according to Ari Berman and others, Senators Christian Sinema and Joe Manchin failed to attend the luncheon. Yeah, so the Senate luncheon, it was the first one that they've had really since the pandemic. So it's something that they consistently do, the delegation. And there were five members. I was not one of those members that actually participated in that luncheon for the purpose of kind of explaining what all happened in Texas. Instead, I actually was set up to meet with someone from Manchin's office, myself and Trey Martinez-Fisher. We initially thought we were going to be able to meet with the senator. Then we realized that they were in the luncheon, but then we later learned that he was not in the luncheon. We also were told

that the senator was actually meeting to talk specifically about both of the bills, H.R. 1 and H.R. 4. So that was really good to hear that he was actually engaging in conversation about this because that's not really been part of the conversation. All we just continue to hear is that he's against, you know, getting rid of the filibuster. And for most of us, it's been like, OK, well, that's going to be a problem if we're going to get this passed. And then most recently, we finally were learning that he actually said that he would vote against H.R. 1. So I just wanted some clarification on the issues. And I also wanted him to understand that it's just that serious. Not only did we walk off the floor, which is the only only the fourth time it's ever been done in the history of Texas,

but we also decided to spend our own money to come to D.C. We need help and we need cover and we need it now. And so we really wanted him to understand how serious this was to us. Okay, now I'm confused. So y'all met with staff. So he wasn't at the luncheon.

Right. So y'all were at the luncheon because y'all had a staff. So he wasn't at the luncheon. Right. So y'all were at the luncheon because y'all had a meeting directly with him. Then he's not at your meeting, but then you find out he wasn't even at the luncheon. Did they say where was he? Was he in D.C.? Yes, he was.

No, no, no, no. He's in D.C. He did not pull a Ted Cruz. He was not in Cancun. He actually is in D.C. and he was meeting with four other senators. So there's other senators that were missing from that luncheon. And supposedly it was a conversation to kind of try to figure out what his issues are with H.R. One, trying to figure out how they could get over whatever issues they're having right now, because that's kind of the first hurdle. Even if you got rid of the filibuster

right now, he's saying that he wouldn't vote for H.R. one anyway. So I think that they were really trying to get some clarity on what his objection objections were to the bill in general. So how long did you meet with this staff and who who was on the staff? Was it the chief of staff? It was the chief of staff. Okay. How long was that meeting? That meeting was a little under an hour. Okay.

And how did it go? I thought that it went well because, you know, for me, I was like, is it a hard no as it relates to the filibuster issue? That was kind of the first thing that I wanted to clarify because, you know, deciding to use the filibuster issue, that was kind of the first thing that I wanted to clarify. Because, you know, deciding to use the filibuster, there shouldn't be an every other day issue, right? But my issue was that, you know, when we didn't have control, that was kind of our excuse. We didn't have control. Now we have control.

And it seems like we're not doing anything with the control. So I really wanted to get a better understanding of, is this a hard no? And it sounds like he is a hard no when it comes to the filibuster. As it relates to H.R. 1, I wanted to understand what was so objectionable about it. And so they actually started to go through the things that they do like in that bill. And they're all things that make sense. They're all things that we need. They will provide cover for us in Texas for sure. And so, you know, it doesn't, I don't really understand where his major objections are. There are some objections,

but it doesn't seem like he has objections that are so major that would cause him to vote against it, even though that is where I understand him to be at this point until and unless this bill gets changed in some way. So the overall, what did your colleagues say in terms of the feedback they got from other Senate Democrats regarding this issue? Oh, they're all very supportive. The very first senator that we met one on one-one with was Senator Klobuchar. She was amazing. She was very excited to see us. You know, one of the things that we talked about

when we decided to do the walkout was, you know, the party needs to see a fight. The people need to see a fight, right? We can't continue to get steamrolled in the Texas House or get steamrolled when it comes to D.C DC politics. They need to understand that we will stand up and do what we got to do when the time comes. And so I think, you know, it was to light a fire really under the people and hopefully get people on our side and start calling some of these senators, you know, in a very bipartisan way. But ultimately, I think that we've actually lit a fire when it comes to a lot of our electeds up here as well.

They're very excited, they're very proud. So I think that we actually ignited something within them as well. And so I'm very excited for that. Did any of your Texas colleagues meet with Arizona Senator Kristen Sinema? We have not been able to meet with her as of yet that does not mean that we're not trying because we will try but um we've not we've not had that opportunity so so y'all have

been trying so y'all schedule a meeting with senator joe manchin's office he wasn't there but you met with his staff y'all tried to schedule a meeting with senator christian cinema you've yet to be able to they correct we've been unable to at this point. How long are y'all going to be here in D.C. before heading back to Texas? We're all staying different amounts of time, but the majority of us will be here at least until Thursday. So we're here and we're ready. We want them to know that it's the real deal and we need some help.

Well, certainly let us know if between now and Thursday y'all get a chance to meet with Senator Kristen Sinema. You would think that she would have the decency to meet with you considering the Supreme Court is actually looking at a voting rights case dealing with Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. Section 4 was invalidated and Shelby Beholder, Section 2 could be invalidated. And that was that specifically coming from Arizona. So you would think she would actually care about that. We're hoping. I'm going to remain hopeful as of now.

All right, then. Representative Jasmine Crockett from Texas, we surely appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks so much. All right, then. It's unbelievable to listen to that, Teresa. And just the sheer arrogance of Sinema and Manchin. It really is.

It's almost to the point where the respect factor just isn't there. When I see activists and constituents just coming in drones. They make the appointment and then the appointment is supposed to be with the elected official. Then it goes to a chief of staff. I've had one of our advocacy events that I did with the nonprofit organization. I was supposed to be with the leader. It ends up being with the scheduler. So that that was actually unheard of. And of course, I wrote a letter, just like, this should never happen to any other organization or person. But again, it also says, you know, goes to the fact of respect and additional education. So, you know, I get the advocate's

point that there were four senators, you know, a set of them going to the luncheon instead of going to the other meeting. They actually, you know, were together wanting to have that talk about what can, you know, actually happen to make this work. But again, it's like all these meetings, it just seems like there is no results here. So it's like, I'm not sure what we should do as I am not a lawmaker, but I think there has to be another sort of alternative because you have somebody where thousands of people are asking them to change their mind. And then when we're asking for solidified solutions, we're not getting it, but we're getting a bunch of, oh, I agree with this, and we should go with this, and we should put that in a dialogue. So I'm just waiting for the solution here. The thing here is very simple, Mustafa.

There are no alternatives. I mean, this is what happens when, I mean, bottom line is this here. It's 50-50. One senator wields this much power. If Sinema and Manchin go, nope, I'm not going to do it, guess what? You have nowhere to go. You can't pass the bill. And then, of course, you can't pass the bill unless you break the filibuster. The two of them keep talking bipartisan, bipartisan. And I keep saying, show me the 10. Show me the 10 on the other side who are going to go along

with this, and they can't. Well, you know, my grandmother says when you know better, do better. I can only really speak about Senator Manchin since I, you know, was raised in Appalachia and, of course, over in Michigan a little bit. So I decided to get on the phone and I decided to call folks back home in West Virginia across the state, both Democrats and Republicans who I knew. Now, these are what you might still label as somewhat moderate Republicans. Yeah, some still exist. So I called folks in Parkersburg and Wheeling and Charleston and Institute and Clarksburg and Fairmont, and I asked them, I said, should Senator Manchin actually support the bills that folks have put forward

that's actually going to make things better for our country, make us stronger? And it was like 85 percent of the folks said yes. So we've got to make sure that folks inside the states are actually pushing these folks and letting them know that if they don't get their act together, then they may not be holding these offices in the future. Now, I'm not threatening anyone. What I am sharing is what everyday hardworking folks in the future. Now, I'm not threatening anyone. What I am sharing is what everyday hardworking folks in the state of West Virginia are saying what their expectations are,

and their expectations also line up with the polling that folks have been sharing across the country. And it's probably not that different in Arizona, but I like to ground true stuff, and I like to make sure that I know what I'm talking about because I actually talk to real people about real issues, and this is what many folks in West Virginia are saying. Ben, at the end of the day, it's pressure, it's pressure, it's pressure.

You really have no choice. You use every single thing at your disposal, and I think you unleash it against these two, and there's no let-up. And I need people, I gotta remind people, and I think it's a little hard two. And there's no let up. And I need people. I got to remind people. And I think it's a little hard for a lot of people today to understand how long the civil rights bill was filibustered and fought by the Southern Dixiecrats in the 60s.

Kennedy proposed it when he came in after he won in 61. He gets killed November 22nd, 63. It doesn't get passed until it was broken up by LBJ. He said, I can't get all at one time. So it's in 64. That was three years later. Then, of course, 65, the Voting Rights Act. Then, of course, 68, the Fair Housing Act. So that was an eight-year effort just with killing the LBJ. I'm not saying that, oh my goodness, we should be waiting eight years, but what I am saying is to people who want to see it done, we have to be in this for the long haul. It's not going to always happen in two or three months. Absolutely. It won't happen in that short

of a timeframe, especially not with our intransigent Congress in general or Senate specifically. But I do want to tap into something, one of the things that you were saying, Roland. We can't let up on these politicians, especially Sinema and Manchin. And I think in one way that we let up on them is by having these meetings with them at this juncture because they've shown a level of disrespect.

They've shown a level of disrespect in terms of these politicians, these elected officials' time. They've shown a level of disrespect in terms of these politicians, these elected officials' time. They've shown a level of disrespect in terms of their unwillingness to even really consider this. Joe Manchin has already said he's coming out against H.R. 1. And I don't care how many times they meet with us and seem like they're concerned. At the end of the day, they're gaslighting us. And we need to call them on it.

We need to say it in the media. We need to say it on the news. We need to say it on the radio that we have two Democratic senators that are gaslighting us and do not care about the black vote enough to even help protect it. Absolutely. I said a little bit earlier, Don Winslow dropped this video here, specifically targeting Joe Manchin when it comes to voting rights. Watch this. 1965, Selma, Alabama, Edmund Pettus Bridge. Freedom marchers on one side, racist state troopers who have been ordered by Governor George Wallace to stop them on the other.

I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever. Whoo-hoo! Bloody Sunday. Whoo-hoo! Whoo-hoo! Whoo-hoo! June 2021. Bloody Sunday. June 2021, the state troopers are gone, replaced by this man, Senator Joe Manchin.

This man is single-handedly blocking the most important voting legislation in the history of this country. Why Manchin and Sinema care more about the will of the Republican Party than about the will of the American people? If it fails, voter suppression will be the law in more than 40 states. We asked Joe Manchin to reconsider his position. Do they change their mind? Now, why would Joe Manchin, a supposed Democrat, be on the wrong side of the bridge? Why would he stand with racists? Why would he vote to suppress black voters? Because Joe Manchin can count. This is the racial composition of the population of West Virginia. 93.9% white, 3.4% black. Joe Manchin is never going to support the rights of black voters in a state where black voters represent 3.4% of the population.

More than 50 years after John Lewis and so many other black Americans were beaten in the streets of Selma, I think we know which side of the bridge Joe Manchin would have been on. Ben, you look impressed. That's what I'm talking about. Right there. Every day, all day long, radio, television, don't let this man get away with being the guy who can

smile and glad hand and shake hands and kiss your baby on the cheek and all the while he is absolutely on the cheek. And all the while, he is absolutely on the side of the Republican Party. He's on the wrong side of history. We can't afford to wait for history to write this man's epithet. We need to do it now.

And I think that clip by Don Winslow is amazing. Teresa. It's definitely interesting to see the statistics. I mean, you know, it really looks like Joe Manchin is playing right into the hand of his constituent bases. Now, I'm not saying that all, you know, his 93 percent of Caucasian constituents are in favor or not in favor of this. But what I am saying that it does look like Joe Manchin was elected as a Democrat, but we all know he had moderate to conservative thoughts as it relates to his position on a lot of things,

and he's making his position very clear to his constituent basis. Mustafa? Well, there's a whole lot of lower-wealth white folks that's in West Virginia as well, and these actions that Senator Manchin has refused to move forward's in West Virginia as well. And these actions that Senator Manchin has refused to move forward on will impact them as well. Of course, it always impacts us first and worst, but some of them are also going to find it much more difficult to be able to

move forward. So Senator Manchin should remember that many of the folks throughout the state want him to do the right thing, and he just has not been able to do it so far. And so I hope he has one of those moments where he finally realizes who he's supposed to represent. And we'll see how it plays out. All right, folks, let's talk about the white nationalists in the United States Senate. Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. Well, guess what? He's doing what he usually does. With the help of his Republican cohorts, including Senators Tom Tillis of North Carolina,

the clueless idiot Tommy Tuberville of Alabama, and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Cotton has introduced a bill to defund the 1619 Project Curriculum. Oh, look at that. Four white men. Four white Southern men. Hmm. The Saving American History Act would prohibit federal funds to teach the 1619 Project by K-12 schools or school districts. Schools that teach the 1619 Project would also be ineligible for federal professional development grants. Cotton also had the audacity to say racism in the U.S. military did not exist until the Biden administration

entered the White House. Y'all want to see some stupidity? Mr. Secretary, we're hearing reports of plummeting morale, growing mistrust between the races and sexes where none existed just six months ago, and unexpected retirements and separations based on these trainings alone. And again, these are not my words. These are the words of your own troops. So I want to ask a few simple but vital questions. Mr. Secretary, do you believe that our military is a fundamentally racist organization? Yes or no, please. Well, I won't give you a Yes or no, please. Well, I won't give you a yes or no answer on that, Senator, because it deserves more than a yes or no.

The military, like any organization, will have its challenges, but I do not believe it is a fundamentally racist organization. Thank you. I'm sorry to cut you off, but our time is limited. I think it is a pretty simple question. I'm glad that you agree it is not fundamentally racist. Do you believe that any member of the military should be treated differently based on their skin color and sex? Well, actually, of course, later, Lloyd Austin, the Pentagon secretary, actually expanded on his comment, but also seemed Senator Cotton also forgot about what was stated in even the military times where black and other troops talked about the racism they've actually felt in the armed services. And of course, the stories talking about the white supremacists who are also in the military. That's exactly what we see going on. Now of course, you have all this conversation dealing with critical race theory.

1619 Project, folks, is not critical race theory. And one of the folks who has spoken out, we talked about this last Friday, was a black woman from Florida, talking to the State Board of Education about critical race theory not teaching the truth. Keisha King is political consultant and co-chair of Moms for Liberty, Florida talking to the State Board of Education about critical race theory not teaching the truth. Keisha King is political consultant and co-chair of Moms for Liberty and she joins us right now.

Keisha, glad to have you in Roland Martin Unfiltered. First and foremost, what exactly is critical race theory and is it being, where was it being taught in Florida schools? So critical race theory is the idea that America, the foundation of America is, racism isbodied, are deemed oppressed, the oppressors, and everyone else is deemed oppressed. And you can't get away from that. It is what it is because of the idea that racism is ingrained into the fabric of America, that it can't, you can't repent from it, you can't move forward from it. And it's there to stay. Actually, what you just said is not true. So this is what the folks at Ed Week have laid out.

Critical race theory is an academic concept that is more than 40 years old. The core idea is that racism is a social construct. Is that true or false? Is racism a social construct? I do believe that, yes. Racism is a social construct. All right. And it says that it is not merely the product of individual bias or prejudice, but also something embedded in legal systems and policies.

Do you believe that racism is embedded in legal systems and policies in the United States? I do not. Do you believe that racism is embedded in housing policies in the United States? I do not. Do you believe that racism is embedded in housing policies in the United States? No, because people have to, people run these systems. And so we would have to say that racism is embedded into people if we are going to say it's embedded into these systems. Well, so, so, so very abstract.

They are actually run by human beings. But if the individuals are actually running the system and then it's being implemented, then it's still in the system. So for instance, when you talk about housing in your state of Florida, there have been stories where African Americans, there was one woman who was married to a white gentleman where an appraiser came out of their home and gave them a far less value on their home. Then when they removed everything in their house that identified as black, then a second appraiser came out, there was a higher valuation on their home. Is that racism? I'm not sure, but I mean, I certainly know that racism

exists. You're not sure. You're not sure. You're not sure that if an appraiser comes out and gives a lower home appraisal after meeting the black woman, the black wife, but then when they brought a second appraiser out, the black wife was nowhere to be found. They removed all pictures of her in the home. They removed anything black art or whatever. Then all of a sudden, there was a higher appraisal value.

Same house. Exact same house. All of a sudden, they've got a higher appraisal value. Is that not racism in housing? For me, I would have to have more information. That doesn't necessarily mean that it could be racism. Well, what do you think it is? What do you think it is?

I don't know, but I wasn't there. For me, I would have more information. So let me ask you this question. Do you believe that systematic redlining of communities where black people live, is that racism? Redlining? Yes. Yes, that was racism. But isn't that systematic? Because that was a system that was actually imposed by banks. It was imposed by the federal government. It was actually a part of federal policy. Is that

not racism? That was the law at a point in time. However, today in 2021, where we have many more diverse people that run these corporations, we have much more of a diverse. My bottom line is America has progressed. We are not the same country that we were decades ago, centuries ago. So that doesn't mean that when we see disparities, it automatically is an implication of racism. So let me ask you this question. It's not always that the case. Okay, so if you're seeing disparities, if you're seeing, uh, disparities in terms of in this country, if you're seeing disparities in terms of,

um, um, African-Americans, whether in executive suites, uh, if you're seeing that, um, if you're seeing this, the same thing in other areas, what, what would you attest to? If you all of a sudden you look at Silicon Valley, if you see companies on the West Coast and you see 1.5% or even fewer black folks working at those companies, what do you say is the problem? I would say that we should encourage our community

to get more involved with STEM, math, science. Which is why we don't need to be teaching that, you know, we're permanently in a state of oppression. I think that's why we need to be teaching math and science to our children. But do you even know that 60% or more of the jobs in Silicon Valley have nothing to do with STEM? Regardless. I mean, they're not... No, no, no. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're all white either

because a lot of these people are from India. A lot of them are Asian. So they're not... It's not that they're just white people running these things. I mean, there are other cultures that have dominance in those industries as well. And I just believe that we should be afforded those same opportunities to progress into those industries. But right there, right there, you said we should be afforded those opportunities.

There have been African-Americans who have worked at companies like Google and Facebook who have said, who are there on the recruitment side, who have said that those companies refuse to hire and recruit from HBCUs, refuse to have programs. And so they, black folks who worked in those companies, who were advocates, who said that what you just described, we should have an opportunity. What they say is opportunity was not given. They wouldn't even, and in fact, what they would even do is they would even have a sliding scale. We'll go, oh, because they didn't come from Stanford or Harvard. Yeah, that's not going to work. So when you say the opportunity, but isn't that also racist, racist,

racist when you don't even want to recruit from HBCUs, when you look at an HBCU education as less than, when you're not providing those level of opportunities, when you look at an HBCU education as less than, when you're not providing those level of opportunities, when you're remarked, well, they don't fit into our culture. What do you ascribe that then? I mean, these are individual circumstances. I'm not going to blanket the entire black community as being less than because... I'm sorry, I didn't say less than, but that's them.

The people that you are telling me that they didn't... Because I know plenty of success... I'm looking at you. You're a very successful black man. Well, guess what? You're a very successful black man. But hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm not saying that that is without struggle.

I'm not saying that that is without competition. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that that is without any of those things. But you left out racism. But you left out racism. But you left out racism. I don't believe that racism is our primary problem in America today. No, no, no, but that's not what I said.

That's not what I said. That's not what I said. What I'm saying is, but you didn't leave out racism. See, because what you don't know is, what you don't know is that when I worked at, when I was an intern at the TV station in Bryan College Station, Texas, when a weekend sports anchor job came open at KBTX, the sports director, the assistant sports director, the 5 p.m. producer, the 6 p.m. producer, the 10 p.m. producer, they were like, yo, Roland's the best one for the job.

The white male news director made it clear he was not going to hire a black male. His dear friend, investigative reporter Alice Brown, took me on a walk and said, he's not going to hire you. Now, did that somehow stop me? No. But here's what I will say. Did that actually have an impact? First of all, it impacted me economically because I did not get that particular job while I was in college. But here's the whole point.

Why should racism prevent me from being able to get a job? Yeah, the guy's name was Jeff Braun. I still call his name out. And it was undeniable. I'm talking about like it wasn't even close in terms of who was best. And so that was an example that I personally experienced in terms of racism in my career as a student at Texas A&M. And what I'm saying to you is that exists. I have been in media since I was 13 years old. Racism exists in media. I have seen

editors choose not to hire folks based upon race. So to act like it doesn't exist, when you look at the numbers, it's undeniable in media when white men dominate the C-suite and very few of us are able to get through the ladder. It's real. But to you say those are individuals. One of the very first things I said was that racism exists. So I never said that racism does not exist. No, but you said not in system.

As long as we're on this side of heaven, there will always be racism. There will always be murder. There will always be horrible, awful things. And what I am saying is that we are the most successful Black people, Americans, Black Americans are the most successful Black people in the entire world.

And so what I am saying is that it is insulting for us to be in the most successful country in the world, the most progressive people in the world, for people to tell us that we are in a perpetual state of oppression is an insult. I am not telling my child that they are limited by their skin color. I will never tell my children or myself that my skin color is a burden to me. Is that what critical race theory does? Because again, you spoke at the Florida State Board of Education. Critical race theory is the idea

that racism is ingrained into the nation and all the institutions and all the organizations and there is no way to remove it. And how it's outworking in today and in the classrooms is that white people are deemed the oppressor, which means that they just have this superiority. I'm sorry, where is that? No evidence, and we're just automatically oppressed.

Where in Florida is critical race theory being taught? Where? In my daughter's school, which I heard her teacher teaching. They don't have a critical race theory book. So hold on. One second. Hold on. One second.

Open up your critical race theory book. No, hold on. One second. One second. One second. Okay. They're not saying. No, one second.

One second. You said you heard your daughter's teacher teach critical race theory. Critical race theory is not being taught's teacher teach critical race theory. Critical race theory is not being taught on the, critical race theory is being taught on the college level. So are you, so what are you associating as critical race theory? Because for instance, there are a lot of people like, you know, Senator Tom Cotton and others,

they think the 1619 Project is critical race theory. It's not. Do you believe the 1619 Project is critical race theory is not. Do you believe the 1619 Project is critical race theory? If you are teaching that racism is ingrained into the system of America, that is the basis of critical race theory. No, it's not! No, you're wrong! If you read Derrick Bell, if you read Kimberle Crenshaw with the intersectionality,

if you study what they write, that is what they are teaching. This is a school idea from critical theory, from legal theory. This is not new. It's a legal theory. Yes, it is a theory. We teach evolution theory.

Theories are taught in school. No, no, no. But this particular legal theory is not being taught in the curriculum in Florida. Where? Mr. Martin, I heard a recording from my daughter's classroom where her teacher was teaching

the theories of critical race theory. I heard this from myself. Her first week in school, she was asked what pronouns she wants to be identified as. Nobody, she never... That's not critical race theory. Hold on one second. That is what, I never said that that was critical race theory. But the idea that that was being presented to her is what made my alarm go off. And so I started to tell her about some different things because I've been

studying this for over a year now. I'm not new. This is not a new concept to me. And because I understood how it starts to come into conversations and things like that, I knew what to look out for. And she on her own recorded this conversation because I've been teaching my children what to look out for. And so, yes, it is not an official curriculum, but it is being weaved into official curriculum, which is exactly what I heard her language arts teacher teach on that day. And in Duval County, in Jacksonville, we had a segregated assembly that was put on by a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant where she was going to segregate

the black children from the white children. Why? I am sorry. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. I don't care why. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, why?

Are you saying that you think that No, I'm asking, no, I'm asking. No, one second, one second, one second. One second, Keisha, Keisha, Keisha, one second. You said a diversity consultant was doing this. I'm asking the question, why? What was she trying to teach what's the why when someone is segregating people by what about the biracial children where do

they go you're not answering my question you're not answering my question you're not asking my question why what what. Why? What, what, what was the exercise? What was the exercise? They never said why she did it. They said, this is what's being done. No, no, no,

no. Did you ask why? There is no reason. No, no. Did you ask why? There is no reason to segregate people by race. So,

so hold on one second. Have they, have they ever... We are not even... I'm 20% European. You probably have whites in your family. There are many people that have... Well, first of all,

first of all, white folks in slavery slept with a whole bunch of slaves, so we all know how that goes. But I'm still trying to get back to... Because, again, you're not answering the question because I still would like to know, okay, when they did this assembly, what was the basis? What was it?

Did you ask? There was no explanation. Emails went unanswered. No, no, no, no. Did you ask? There was no explanation. When parents, black, white, and others, heard about the segregation of their children by color,

that was a problem, regardless of the reason. Did you ask? Now, can you answer my question? Did you ask? Would you give me a good reason for to segregate kids by color? Okay, Keisha, if that was an assembly and they separated boys and girls, would you be objecting?

No. It depends on what... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold up, hold up. So you object, you're objecting, and you didn't ask why. You're objecting if there was an assembly separated by race. But you have no questions if it was gender. Why?

Because there are distinct differences between girls and boys. Well, wait a minute. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. Are there distinct differences? What is the distinction between a black girl and a white girl? What is the distinction between a biracial girl and a biracial girl?

I'm still trying to understand. I'm still trying to.... I'm still trying to... Have you ever heard of the... ...differences. Our brains are even made up differently. Unless you think you agree with some of these... So, this is interesting.

...people are intrinsically different or lower or somehow different than other people, I cannot understand how you could think that there would be any good reason to segregate people by race. I find it interesting that you would not, I find it interesting.

Why would we segregate people by race? I find it interesting that you would object, I find it interesting that you would say, oh no, I wouldn't object to an assembly that was girls and boys, but you objected to one based upon race. And you still haven't answered my question. Why?

What was the purpose of them separating? What was it? I don't know the reason. I don't have to know the reason. No, no. Did you ask? There is no reason. Did you ask?

So wait a minute. Okay, see, now I'm confused. Because you wouldn't ask why a separate assembly for boys and girls, but now you wouldn't. But you said I wouldn't have to ask if it was about race. That makes no sense. I mean, I think it's very obvious, and boys and girls are different. And there are legitimate things that boys experience at certain ages and legitimate things that girls experience at certain ages.

So maybe, yes, there would be a reason to biological reasons why you would want to, you know, partner, you know, segregate the children by gender. That makes sense. But to segregate people by race, what is the difference other than more or less melanin? There's no intellectual difference. There is no – what is the difference between black children, white children, Asian children, Hispanic children, and all different types of people? that skin color has to do with your ability to learn, with your ability to reason, with your ability to do anything in society. What would be a good reason to separate people by the color of their skin?

This is what we did back in the 1700s, 1800s. I don't think we want to go back there. I certainly don't. And I would dare to be dare anybody try to tell my kids that any person is better than them based on skin color. And I can't believe that you would even think that that is something acceptable. Well, first of all, because see, first of all,

I use my brain. And what I do is, my first response is, oh my God, this is no. I would then go, the first I would say say is why? What's the basis behind it? Now, according to now, are you speaking? Are you speaking about what these what was taking place at Douglas Anderson? Is that the school? Correct. And so and so this took place at their school of arts. And so what the school stated is that there were there were cultural issues that have arisen at the particular school.

And the email states that one meeting will be for students of color and the other will be for white students. It also reads about working together, we can all create the best DA. And so what they laid out in here was that, this is quote, over the last year, there's been tons of attention that has been drawn to the racial divide and tension at Douglas Anderson, and there were efforts made to try and pull things together, mend wounds and improve relationships. But when I saw the memo, I couldn't believe it was like we took a step back. This is from Latoya Gunn. Now, her daughter has said that she's heard other students, white students, use the N-word. And so, if they were trying to

sit here and deal... So, are there racial tensions at the school? Have you talked to other black parents and white parents? Yeah, I talked to many black parents. My daughter went to the junior high that would be before she goes to. Are there racial tensions

there? I've never heard of any racial tensions before this particular incident. And even still, even if there were racial incidents, why would you segregate the children by race? Well, because, well, no, no, actually, actually, actually, actually, actually, actually, it does in Keisha. So Keisha, cause let me, let me sort of just, let me sort of, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, allow me as, as somebody who, um, who has dealt with some of these similar issues. It's very similar, uh, when, uh, in the workplace, uh, where, uh, in a, an environment, uh, where a certain group, women, Latinos, African-Americans, others, who might feel as if there are fundamental problems going on.

You may have a group of black employees that meet with leadership, who meet with the boss. That actually happens. We did that when I was at CNN, where these things happen. In fact, Fox News, Fox News, in June of last year, a group of black employees actually came together and held a meeting with the executive leadership of Fox News to complain about racism and other issues at Fox News. That was a discrimination suit that was actually filed by black employees at Fox News. So what you're actually describing, those meetings actually do happen because what it does is it allows for leadership to actually hear from an aggrieved group

to understand what is going on. So what you're saying is you didn't hear of any racism, but according to stories that are done, other black parents have talked about racial tension at this particular school. So if that's the case,

do you believe that if there's racial tension in a place that a group of black students should be able to gather to express their feelings directly to the leadership of the school?

Should that happen? If the individual is affected, black, white, other, whatever you are, if you want to take your... No, no, no, no, no, no. I asked you a specific question. I am answering the question. If you want to take...

No, no, no. If you want to take that grievance to the leadership of an organization, a school, wherever it may be, by all means, go ahead. But to take the entire organization and say, even if you had nothing to do with it, even if you're not experiencing the same thing and just say, we're going to separate the black folks over here, the white folks over there, how is that? Well, actually, first of all, well, first of all, well, because first of all, according to according to the school memo, it was white students, people of color.

So people of color includes more than black people. But I'm gonna go back to ask you the question. If there was an issue where women were girls at this school had a fundamental issue, would you have a problem if the girls met separately from the boys? I would say it again. If those girls, the specific girls who had a problem, I don't think you should round up every girl just because some girls had a problem. But that's totally different what you said earlier. Some girls are not experiencing, that's exactly what I said said earlier. Girls are not experiencing.

That's exactly what I said. You should take the individuals that it was affecting and let them go to leadership. Take the individual, girls, boys, whoever. Let them go to leadership. Why are we rounding up everybody as if we all think the same and we don't have any type of autonomy or self well but earlier you said you have no problem with a separate girls assembly separate boys assembly you you said out your own mouth oh there are differences mr martin you these are two totally different questions that no no no you literally you literally said you literally said you objected

did i think that girls and boys should be segregated at any point in time and i said okay i can see where girls and boys could be separated if you're talking you know you may want to talk about getting your cycle boys don't experience that or you know boys going through different things that they go through biologically. I can understand a grouping of... So you can... That happens to every girl. So you can understand that, but you can't understand a group of white students,

a group of people of color, talking about the issues they may be facing. And here's the deal. If you're black or Latino and you go to the meetings of people of color, you can stand up and actually say, hey, I've had no issues, no problems here at the school. It's been great and wonderful. What's the problem?

I'm just saying that why do you have to drag everybody in if it's a specific issue to those people who experience that issue, why can't we let them sort it out? Why are we trying to make this like

that every person who is identified within that group or may be associated within that group, that they automatically have the same issue? Because probably

if you've had such a widespread issue, you cast a wide net. Probably not. But then again, you still had no problem with the group meeting. I'm still going to go back to this here because this is still very interesting. You

talk about critical race theory and what we're seeing across this country, we're seeing folks just lump everything in together. Any conversations or anything dealing with race and that to me is what the folly is. The reality is in Florida schools, just like in Texas, in Oklahoma and Arkansas, critical race theory was not being taught. It was not in the curriculum. It was not there. And so does it? So since you, since I'm going to use your example,

I'm going to use your example. Let me just use your example of, well, if this group has a problem, they take it up with them. So if you had a problem with one teacher saying something to your child, why pass a statewide ban on critical race theory when it didn't even exist? Why? If it's only your child or a couple of others. I'm using your setup. Why

do a mass ban and there's only a handful of examples? Why? This is not being taught to just a few individuals. It's not being taught at all. How do you know that, Mr. Martin? Critical race theory is not in the curriculum in Florida. It's not being taught at all. How do you know that, Mr. Martin? Critical race theory is not in

the curriculum in Florida. Like I said, there is no book that they have. It's not in a... Okay, so how many teachers are teaching it in Florida? Okay, how many teachers in Florida

are teaching critical race theory off the books? How many? I'm not sure. Okay, but stop. You're not sure. So you went before the State Board of Education and supported a statewide ban on something that you could not quantify. Yes, because any time you try to segregate people by their race and say... That's one school.

No, no, no, Keisha. No, Keisha. Keisha. Keisha, that's one school. No, Keisha. Keisha. So, Keisha, wait a minute. Hold up.

Hold up. Let's stay right there. So you... So wait a minute. You're now contradicting yourself. You are. You just said, you just said, if a group of people have a problem at a school, the administrators should only take it up with those people and not do a full assembly, right? That's what you said, right?

What I said was, if there is a specific issue, you were specifically talking about the Douglas Anderson case where there was a specific issue. I was speaking to that as far as critical race theory, which is a separate issue. But it's not being taught. This is being widely, yes, it is. And I asked you how widely, how widely, how widely. I don't know. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, it is. And I asked you how widely? How widely? How widely? I don't know.

Hold up, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. You gave me one teacher. You gave me one teacher. So is it 5% of all teachers in Florida doing this?

Do you know? Is it 10%? So if I was to say, okay, well, there's only 2% of racist people in the United States Congress, are you going to be like, oh, well, just only... We don't have to worry about that because it's only 2%. No, no, no. I'm using

your example. I don't want racist teachings anywhere in American classrooms. Here's the problem. Here's the problem. You contradicted yourself. You supported a statewide ban on something that's not even being taught because your child recorded one teacher. You can't even answer.

You literally cannot even answer how widespread is it. You said, I don't know. So your deal is, I don't, you sound like... You're okay with some racism. No. As long as it's not widespread. Here's the deal, Keisha.

I'm going to use your example. Since you had a problem with one teacher, Keisha should have gone, oh, she hung up, y'all. See what happens? This is what happens, y'all. Did she hang up or did our system go out? She hung up.

See, this is what happened, y'all, when you're busted. Okay, I got another guest coming up, but pull up my panel and tell my next guest to hold on. I'm going to go to them. This is what happens when you're busted. This is what happens when you contradict your own argument. If Keisha had a problem with a teacher saying something in the classroom, she should have gone to the principal and then the school board.

She supported the passage of a bill across the entire state because of two incidents. And then, Teresa, she couldn couldn't answer how widespread is this how widespread is it i don't know she sounds like republicans saying yeah we're gonna pass new vote laws uh we ain't got proof but what the hell we're just gonna pass it yeah i mean keisha you know is obviously i looked at her social media account while you guys were discussing because i was just so curious about um like where she some of her ideas of how she came across this topic

um and part of it is you know even in her, mini bio, and it goes to a point here, but the mini bio, it says, like, rising star in the GOP. You know, it's just mom. You know, so and then if you go on the timeline, it says, you know, she was just on a program with Fox News. And so, again, I understand her profile. So I understand she is on message. But what I don't understand is the ignorance that we choose to have. I think education is a strong component here. I think most of it she was grasping, but then the contradiction of what she was saying also put her backwards in her original position.

Because you can't agree with some portions of, well, I agree, well, I disagree with them separating blacks and whites, but I agree with them separating girls and boys. Like, it just doesn't make sense because what happened to the kids where, you know, they want to choose who they want to be? So, I mean, there's so many issues here, and I think that's really just surrounding her statement. But again, it also shows that the GOP is not... Bring her on. Okay? All right, so apparently Keisha wants to get back on. So, Keisha, come on back. But here's the deal, Ben.

I stand by my position. You can't support a statewide ban. Every school district, every classroom, because of one teacher and your daughter. Yeah, I would like to ask, uh, Sister Keisha, if we found more provable instances of racism than she found of provable instances of critical race theory being taught.

Will she support the existence of critical race theory? I mean, since it's like almost like an all-or-none proposition with her. Um, because then my second question would be, uh, when's the last time she actually can say that she personally experienced racism in this country? Um, because I think she's going vacillating back and forth between racism as an individualism,

as an individualist construct, something that an individual is responsible for. And that's usually what conservatives do to make sure that this structural system is never held accountable by saying, oh, that's an individual racist problem. So I do want to kind of know if we found more examples of racism

than she found of examples of critical race theories, would she go before the board and support critical race theories? Hey, y'all, what's the status of Keisha? All right. All right, so let me do this here, y'all, okay? We're going to come back later in the show with part two of Keisha, okay? So it's my next...

Okay, she's picking up now? Okay, because I still want to know again. Okay, Keisha, are you there? I don't know what happened, sir. Okay, so Ben Dixon, you had a question for Keisha. So Ben, go ahead and ask her the question, and let's see if she answers your question. Yeah, no, it's a simple question.

If we were to show you provable, objective examples of racism, more examples of racism than you found examples of critical race theory being taught, would you go before the Board of Education with the same energy and the same fervor and demand that we do something about racism since you put that metric out there in terms of how many times you saw critical race theory being taught.

I would stand up against racism anytime I saw it, absolutely. I'm not for racism, and I know that it exists. That's not what I'm saying. So, yes, I would stand up against racism. That's what I'm doing now. So you see more of a problem in the racism of... your perceived racism of the 1619 Project critical race theory than in the...

No, no, no, not 1619 Project. Not 1619 Project. The conflation of the two. Right. So, again, I still just want to know, what is the percentage of, again, these examples you're using, how many are we talking about? Five? Twenty? A hundred?

Two thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand? How rampant... This thing that you're describing, your daughter experience, how rampant is it in Florida? If it is any at all, I have a problem. Anybody

is trying to tell children that they are in a perpetual state of oppression by a racial group. I don't care what the color is. That is racism. So, Keisha, so should the state... So, Keisha, if there

are five examples... Keisha, Keisha, if there are five examples in the whole state, instead of the principal or the school board handling that, your answer is ban it across the state. Even though I don't know. That would just like be, that would just like say, well, there was only one hanging.

So why do we need to ban hanging people? Hanging black people. Okay, but see, now, see, that makes no sense. That literally makes no sense. Because you, again, though, if I, because, hold up, I'm using your language. I'm using your language. You said that if there were a group of students or a group of people on a job who had an issue, that group of people should go to the superiors

at that school to deal with it, you said, and not have a block-wide assembly. And what I'm saying to you is, if there are a group of parents who are objecting to a group of teachers, why not deal with those teachers and that principal as opposed to say to the State Board of Education,

oh, we're just gonna ban this thing across the state that actually doesn't even exist in the state? You do not see how you literally are contradicting yourself? Okay. Well, if you don't believe that it exists, and if you really don't think that it is a problem, at this point, I'm not sure... No, no, no, no, no, no, no. See, see, here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm gonna use a legal standard.

In order for Roland to show if I want to do a class action lawsuit, I have to show that there are multiple people who have been harmed. I have to actually show it. I've got to have evidence. I've got to have data to say, oh, this isn't what one case of Roland being harmed. No, here are multiple examples of African-Americans who have been denied. What I'm saying to you is you can't even provide that to me. You can't even tell me that 5,000 teachers or 7,000 teachers or 100 teachers, all you have is one teacher recorded with your daughter and you stood up at a state board of education

meeting and supported a statewide ban based upon one instance of your daughter. And I'm using your example. Why didn't you versus have the state ban it? Why didn't you go to the principal and the school district and say, I have a problem, let's deal with it here as opposed to say, oh, let's do it.

Because guess what? There are a bunch of schools and teachers who don't do what you do so now you pass the law that impacts them and they have nothing even nothing going wrong do you not see the contradiction if they're not teaching it that they don't have to worry about but you but you already said they're not teaching critical race theory in the district you said they're teaching it unofficially. That's right. And there's many. How many?

How many? How many teachers are unofficially? Keisha, answer my question. How many teachers? If teachers are teaching this. Keisha, answer my question, Keisha. How many teachers? I don't know that answer.

Keisha, Keisha. I don't know. You're admitting. You're admitting. You're admitting. You're admitting. So, Keisha, you are admitting. You do not know how many teachers in Florida are teaching unofficially critical race theory. All you know is one.

No, that is my personal experience. Okay, how many then? Give me a number. How many? There are many parents. How many? No, no, no, no. Okay, how many then? Give me a number. How many? There are many parents. How many? No, no, no, no. I don't want many.

Give me a number. What's many? 10, 30, 50, 100? There are hundreds of parents who have seen things in their schools. How many? How many? Hundreds.

How many? Just in my universe. How many? Countless stories. No, no, how many? I many? How many? How many? No, no. I didn't ask for countless or many. How many? So you have a number. How many school children in Florida?

Keisha, how many school children in Florida? No, no. In the wholeval County School District? No, no, in the whole state. I'm not sure. Millions. Okay, there are nearly 3 million students in public schools in Florida. And you supported

a statewide ban that's not even impacting you, and you can't give a number. But you said that you object to an assembly being people of color and whites, and you said that if you have a problem, they should meet with only the affected people.

Do you not see the contradiction in your own statement? No, I do not, and here is why. Okay. Because you have individual isolated incidents where there is no, what you're, the part that you're missing, Mr. Martin, is that even though it's not written in curriculum, this is your same argument that racism is everywhere. It's not written into law, but it's still everywhere according to you. No, actually, actually, no, actually, you're wrong,

because when I look at Georgia voter suppression law, when I look at Texas, and I look at the fact that the Texas voter ID law, five federal judges deemed it discriminatory against minorities and ruled it unconstitutional, I would say that's writing it into law, so actually, you're wrong. You're stating that...

No, what I'm stating is that five federal judges ruled the Texas voter ID law was unconstitutional and discriminated against minorities. So what I'm arguing is that law was written, yeah, that was discriminatory as it was written. So yes, you're correct. If racism is being taught in schools, even if it is unofficially taught,

what is wrong with saying, okay, you know what? This type of teaching, it's not going to be taught at all. Well, I would say this here. I would say it would be nonsensical. I would say it would be nonsensical. I would say if there was one teacher

who was at a school district who was teaching something that was racist, I would say if there was one teacher who was at a school district who was teaching something that was racist, I would say deal with that teacher and not say, oh, we're going to say all teachers across the state. Here's the bottom, Keisha. You don't have the data. You can't even give a number and you can't. And what I'm saying is it's nonsensical for conservatives in these states passing statewide bans on something that's not even being taught, and you don't even know how significant it is. So, and here's the whole piece.

Critical race theory is not a part of the curriculum. It doesn't exist in Florida schools or Texas or Oklahoma or Arkansas. And for the people who say it is, you simply can't provide the data. So, look, I appreciate it. Give your final comment. Go ahead. That said that, you know, racism, you know, was not really a problem, and they didn't think that slavery

should have been abolished either, so I'm guessing that's what it... Actually, that's just totally nonsensical. It makes no sense at all. And the bottom line is this here. You can't even provide an actual number. You use words like many and a lot. Those are the words that people use when they don't have the numbers to back them up.

So that's why I'm simply saying you might want to be specific. You might want to have folks bring it in, but you don't have it. You don't. And so what you chose to do is to say, oh, I want to kill a fly. I'm going to fire a bazooka. And again, your own example at Douglas contradicts what you did before the State Board of Education. And so good luck for Moms for Liberty. I hope to be spent some time in Florida. And yeah, I'll certainly be talking about the issue, how race does impact us in our society. We're going to call out on every level, and we're also going to call out those politicians

who support these racist voter suppression policies that we see existing, especially there in Florida as well. So we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. All right, folks, got to go to a break. We'll be back. We're on Roland Martin Unfiltered in a moment. I believe that people our age have lost the ability

to focus the discipline on the art of organizing. The challenges, there's so many of them and they're complex and we need to be moving to address them. But I'm able to say, watch out Tiffany, I know this road. That is so freaking dope. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha!

Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! That's conversation there.

You see, folks, there's this belief that somehow you don't have racism in systems. But the reality is this here. We do know exactly how black businesses have been impacted by economic apartheid in this country. We have seen a significant effort since George Floyd's murder where people have been dealing with the racial inequality that exists and understanding the unique challenges faced by black-owned and other minority businesses. Floyd's murder, where people have been dealing with the racial inequality that exists and understanding the unique challenges faced by black-owned and other minority businesses. Amazon, they're launching a $150 million black business accelerator program for third-party sellers on their site. Almost all third-party sellers on Amazon are small to medium-sized

businesses. Third-party sellers represent nearly 60% of product sales on Amazon, and they enjoyed record sales growth in 2020. Now the company wants more black-owned businesses to enjoy that success. Joining us right now is Lorenzo Patton, Amazon's vice president of finance operations and services. Lorenzo, glad to have you on the show. Thanks for waiting. First and foremost, what caused this to happen?

What caused Amazon to say, you know what, we got to create this initiative? What spurred it? It was the incredible idea of one of our Amazonians, Tiffany Johnson. She works with sellers all the time. And she was, as she was working through and helping these people achieve a success, she was thinking, hey, how can I use this economic engine? How can I use this tool of success to be beneficial to black owned businesses in the black community? So she took that idea. She brought it up to leadership and spent some time with the Black Employee Network to kind of help refine it. And a few other partners. But ultimately, that's what brought it to the table. How how will this accelerator work? And so is it is one hundred fifty million dollars.

And so you got to be a particular size, employees. And so what is it? Is it cash grants? What's the program? Okay. So as you said, it's $150 million for the first four years. But then that's not the cap. I mean, that's not the intent.

I mean, the idea is to grow a process that will empower and enrich black-owned businesses over time. But the way that manifests is in three basic pillars. So you have the financial assistance, which is in the form of grants, but also things like credits for advertising, images, and the like. Second, you have business knowledge and mentorship. So for a minimum of a year, folks have access to an account manager who will help them from everything from setting up their storefront to what's the best way to position their products and their brand to be attractive to customers.

And then lastly, you have marketing and promotion. So having access to hundreds of millions of customers is great, but if you can't get them to look at your products and your brand, it's really hard to generate sales. So another key part of that. So I'm very curious because one of the things, I have a segment called Where's Our Money? And we've been talking about how black-owned media has been specifically impacted by a lot of these companies when it comes to advertising. And we've also been talking about the need for companies across America to really examine their black-owned spend. This obviously is talking about these third-party sellers that are on Amazon.

Have you all also been looking at this issue, the business that Amazon does with black-owned companies, outside of third-party sellers, but I'm talking about black-owned media, black catering companies, black limousine companies. I mean, really looking at that supplier, some call supplier diversity piece as well, because that's also a significant block that African-Americans are not getting opportunities from major companies. Right. So it's absolutely something we look at as a company. And as part of bringing this to the table, we not only leverage the traditional media, we use black owned media sources as well to help promote this.

Additionally, black creative firms to help set this up and give it the right marketing branding in terms of how to bring this forward. So beyond that, we leverage black and minority-owned businesses in a whole host of things, and that's including our operations as well as other supporting for corporate offices and the like. So Amazon spends about $20 billion a year on marketing. Do you know specifically how much is spent with Black-owned media, what that percentage is? And we've been, of course, we've been looking at many other companies. And the reason I'm bringing this up, because I think it ties directly into your accelerator program, because pre-COVID, there were 2.6 million Black-owned businesses in America, but 2.5 million only had one employee doing average revenue of $54,000. And so I'm all about how do we also build capacity? I would

assume that the purpose of this accelerator program is to build capacity of these black-owned businesses. So they're not one employee, they're three and five and 10 and 20. And they're also building 100, 500,000 multiple million dollars in revenue. So I'm curious of the annual spin of Amazon. Do you know how much is spent on black owned media? So I don't know what's spent on black media. And frankly, until this program came about, we weren't tracking black owned businesses as they were setting up as sellers. That said, part of this program is to do exactly that. So to know who are the black-owned businesses and then how do we gear them towards success. I will say that part of the way I think about this is Amazon represents an economic engine.

And if I were to look back at the sales that were generated between April 1st, 2020 and March 31st, 2021, those businesses sold 3.7 billion products and on an average had revenues of over $200,000. So from my perspective, being able to tie black owned businesses into an engine that's producing those sort of results will absolutely be a wealth builder. Oh, I agree. I agree. And I'll say this here, which is one of the reasons why I agreed to have you along talking about this, because I have a this is a black business. Normally in this segment, I feature a black owned business because I want to promote those businesses utilizing this show. Which is why we did this here. And so I'm glad to see that y'all are doing that. You know, whatever help we can provide, but I certainly, what I think is important,

I really believe it's important, because we talk about Amazon being an economic engine. Here's the reality, and I'll say this here. If Amazon, and look, we've done this, so Dentsu has made their announcements, General Motors, 20 companies with Group M. If Amazon came out and said, we're going to spend 5%, 10% of our annual marketing budget with black-owned media, and we're going to challenge every other major corporation,

I fundamentally believe, Lorenzo, that Amazon could completely overnight change how advertising is being spent and how the impact on black owned media. And so I'm so to me, this is something that I think is an opportunity for Amazon. So just like with this initiative right here, I think Amazon should throw the challenge down. You should be challenging every other company to do the exact same thing, creating accelerated programs, because we know how we've been systematically frozen out of systems. And this is, to me, how the game can be changed in what I call this third reconstruction. From my perspective, that's exactly, I mean, your points about being intentional. The Black

Business Accelerator is done exactly to, how do we go beyond just having a general offering? Could a Black-owned business go and sign up to be a seller, one of multiple millions of sellers? Absolutely. It's the intentionality of saying we are going to help these businesses succeed. We are going to position them. We're going to give them the resources. And to your point, that's been one of the gating factors is do I have the capital

to be able to start my business? Do I have the know-how to get myself online and then be successful in marketing myself in front of hundreds of millions of customers? So I agree. I think this is a great program and that intentionality, the more that we can do that and other companies can follow suit, I think will have a tremendous impact on Black-owned businesses and the Black community. Where can folks get more information?

Where can they sign up? So they can go to Amazon.com forward slash BBA. We have a team of people ready to sign up, folks who be in the program. And I think it's going to be a huge opportunity. All right, then. Well, certainly looking forward to that. And I look forward, certainly getting back with you specifically on that Black-owned media span.

I mean, obviously being a black-owned media company, that's a particular passion of mine. I've been doing this since I was 13 years old. My first job was in black-owned media. And what I'm looking at is where we're going to be in 30 years. And if we don't change this system now, I don't want a black-owned media entrepreneur 30 years from now fighting the same battle.

And so I would love to know what Amazon's current black-owned media entrepreneur 30 years from now fighting the same battle. And so I would love to know, you know, what Amazon's current black-owned media spend is and then what Amazon wants it to be in the next five years. And so, like I say, Byron Allen, Todd Brown, Butch Graves, a bunch of us, you know, have been pushing a lot of these companies to change the game because that allows us to be able to grow and allows us to be able to, you know, when companies are spending advertising dollars with us, then we can hire more staff and we can actually cover more things and actually have a robust news operation. And so I certainly are interested in knowing what that is. And so we'll look forward to this. And so we encourage our users to sign up.

But definitely want to be follow up on that as well. So give out that site again. It is Amazon forward slash BBA. All right. Lorenzo, thanks a bunch. Good luck with the program. Thank you, Mr. Martin. It was a pleasure being here. Mr. Martin, my daddy, I'm Roland. So it's all good. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. All right. Have a good evening. All right, folks. Thank you so very much. All right. So let's let's now go to my next story.

And that is my next guest has really been involved in trying to get a lot of these civil rights cold cases solved. Finally, this week, President Joe Biden named several people to a board that will be looking into these cases. When I came across it, Claiborne Carson, a buddy of mine, Stanford University with the King Center there. He is going to be on that particular board as well. And then also there are others who are going to be honored. I'm looking forward right now. President Biden, he announced. Give me one second. This was the email. now. President Biden, he announced, give me one second,

this was the email. Y'all go to my iPad, please. Margaret Burnham, Claiborne Carson, Gabrielle Dudley, and Henry Klibunoff, nominees for member of the Civil Rights Cold Case Review Board. That was created by a bill that was passed in the United States Senate. The author of that, former Alabama Senator Doug Jones, who joins us right now. I'm glad to have Doug back on Roller Martin Unfiltered. He also is a distinguished senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and attorney at the D.C. law firm of Aaron Fox, LLC. Senator Jones, glad to have you on here. Before we get to that, you may have heard that wild conversation I had with that woman from Florida talking about critical race theory and this whole statewide ban.

And this thing is taking hold. It's really being led by these Republicans in all of these different states. They're conflating, you know, 1619 Project with critical race theory. You got Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton with his nonsense. He wants to defund the 1619 Project with critical race theory. You got Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton with his nonsense. He wants to defund the 1619 Project. And all of these issues we talk about, what you're dealing with here, and this is just my point of view,

I just think you're dealing with white fear. Yeah, you got some black folks like Keisha out there, but you're dealing with white fear. They don't want their kids to learn about the reality of what happened in America. And in these cases you're talking about, this is American history. This stuff actually happened to black people and others. And these cases have not been solved.

And to me, this idea of let's just remain wholly ignorant, to me, is just nonsense. I just want to get your thoughts on it. No, I agree. It's interesting, Roland. And thanks for having me, by the way. It's great to get your thoughts on it. No, I agree. It's interesting, Roland, and thanks for having me, by the way. It's great to see you again. As you were talking to some of those folks, I was looking at a local media article where a friend of mine at AL.com called the state representative in Alabama, a fellow named Representative Pringle, who has filed the bill looking to ban critical race theory.

And he just asked him a simple question. What is it? And he, of course, could not answer, has no clue. What we're seeing is talking points that are now being used politically that are now becoming trying to become law. And we've seen that time and time again. And it's really unfortunate. Nobody's trying to rewrite history, but we are trying to try to set the record straight about making sure history is taught accurately, fairly, and fully. And that's what I think is getting lost on all of this, is that it's really interesting to me that a society, especially here in the South, who has celebrated the Confederacy, the lost cause, so to speak, celebrated generals like Robert E. Lee, who actually killed U.S. soldiers,

that we're somehow trying to rewrite history as opposed to just simply saying, let's get the facts out there. Let's tell people about the facts. And folks will get a better understanding of where we've been, where we're going and what really we need to do about race in this country. You know, and it just it is it is just stunning. Just the sheer ignorance and this. Oh, my God. Just we can't have this. Things are being talked about because the deal is they do not want their children to actually learn these things.

I was just in Tulsa for six days, the one of the anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre. And the fact that it was not added to the curriculum in Oklahoma until 2019, 98 years after it happened. When you look at a lot of these things in the civil rights, the heinous things that have happened in Alabama and Mississippi, frankly, it is new, very new, that these things are being taught. The reality is, it's like, oh, MLK gave a speech, Rosa Parks sat down, all right, let's skip to the 1970s. Yeah, there's no question, Roland. You know, when I prosecuted the church bombing cases back in 01 and 02, we did a fair amount of jury work, and we were really stunned at the lack of information that people had about the civil rights movement in Birmingham, Birmingham citizens. It was the African Americans that we had on that jury or on the focus groups that came in. It was stunning to us to listen to the fact that they knew very little about the civil rights history of Birmingham, especially with the younger folks and the youth movements here in Birmingham

that really prompted all the changes across the country. Folks knew very, very little about it. And so tell folks about this particular cold case review board. What are they going to do? You know, I am so proud of President Biden for moving this forward. I'm so proud of the Senate and the House who passed this with overwhelming support. It was one of the bills I really pushed. You know, this is an interesting story behind this bill, support. It was one of the bills I really pushed. You know, this is an interesting story behind this bill, Roland. This originated really with a group of high school kids in Hightstown, New Jersey, who called me two years or so before I got to the Senate

saying that they had an idea for a bill based on the Kennedy Assassination Commission that reviewed all of the evidence and all of the documentations involving President Kennedy's assassination, and then made so many of them public for historians, the community, academia, the media, whatever. And they asked me, they wanted to do that for civil rights cold cases because they had been thwarted in trying to get some records about a couple of cases they wanted to look at. I endorsed the bill.

As soon as I got to the U.S. Senate, they called me back and said, you know, look, remember that bill? We'd like for you to introduce it. So, dang, we got to work. Ted Cruz actually joined us to do this. And what this bill does, it creates a commission really under kind of the auspices of the National Archives. The goal of the commission is to gather all of the documents within the federal government's possession,

Department of Justice, Department of Education, wherever these records might be, of these civil rights cases that involved heinous crimes. They didn't have to be a death. It could be an assault. It could be a number of things up until like in the early 70s. Get those records, bring them into one place. Let this commission who's presidentially appointed review those records and then open them up. You know, they're not really classified,

but because they're all criminal cases, but just then make them public, make them available to you guys in the media so that you can look and see what happened and why. And in many cases, how they weren't investigated properly. Give some sense of the families, the communities, some sense of closure, some sense of healing. I learned that knowledge is power. And there is so much that can be gained from understanding what happened in those cold cases, the civil rights cold cases, what happened and why. There's so much knowledge that we can gain to maybe help educate people in the future. But will this board, could this also lead to prosecutions? What can it actually lead

to? Well, it really can't lead to prosecute. This is not a prosecuting authority. Could they come to something to where they find and refer it back to the Justice Department or a state investigation? Yes. But the odds are in these cases, Roland, I've seen it time and time again, the potential defendants are all gone and they're dying off every day.

So the odds of this resulting in any prosecution are probably slim and none. But the fact is, the knowledge, being able to get the facts out, we're just now learning, as you said, what happened in the Tulsa race massacre. We need to know the information about what happened with so many of these cases

where victims went missing for so long and just never got investigated. What happened and why, who the potential perpetrators were. And I'll tell you, Roland, one of the things that I found that this is not just important for the families of the victims.

In many, many cases, it's important for the families of those who may have perpetrated these crimes. There's a sense of reconciliation that this kind of bill and these kind of records can lead to. That's what I'm hoping to get out of this. Well, it is certainly that something is needed. I do want to get your thoughts on this. You're no longer in the United States Senate, but just a few moments ago, a Senate passed the bill after Senator Ron Johnson sat the hell down finally

to make Juneteenth a federal holiday. Absolutely. I'm really proud of that, of the Senate for passing that. I didn't see the final vote, but you know, it's just another element of progress. That bill will pass likely in the House. I think it's long since past due. And, you know, so, you know, you got to take the nuggets of progress where you can find them because there's so many things happening right now in the country that you just shake your head and you wonder where the hell we're going. But this shows that there can be some bipartisan support. It can be some things that we can get past the politics of race. And let's look at this in a way that moves the country forward.

It was unanimous, and this was the statement that Senator Ron Johnson released. Although I strongly support celebrating emancipation, I object to the cost and lack of debate. While it still seems strange that having taxpayers provide federal employees paid time off is now required to celebrate the end of slavery, it is clear that there is no appetite in Congress to further discuss the matter. What that means is he looked like a fool. He lost. And Republicans probably said, man, get out the way and get this bill because we look stupid blocking it. You know, Roland, I wish he would write that letter to the Alabama legislature who still gives people time off for Confederate Memorial Day and Robert E. Lee's birthday. Our state funds are used to pay holidays for that. So let's look at across the board.

Maybe he will say, look at all of those issues like that and send something to the Alabama legislature. I doubt it, seriously. Yeah, this is the same guy who says that it was a party atmosphere on January 6th. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. And it is unfortunate that you're no longer in the United States Senate.

I mentioned that whole bill to defund the 1619 project, and unfortunately, one of the people who was sponsoring that with Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas is Tommy Tuberville. Yeah, of course. Of course. Who has no idea what the hell the Voting Rights Act is. Yeah, he doesn't know what the Voting Rights Act is. He thinks the three branches of government are the House, the Senate, and the presidency.

So, I mean, what can you say? Oh, my goodness. Senator Doug Jones is always glad to have you on the show. Thanks a bunch, and great job getting this bill passed to look at these cold cases. All right, Roland, always good to see you. Thanks for having me. Thank you very much. All right, go back to my panel here.

First panel, we're going to talk about Juneteenth here, and let's roll the video. This is the moment when it passed the United States Senate. And Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the Judiciary Committee be discharged from further consideration of S-475 and the Senate proceed to its immediate consideration. The clerk will report. S-475, the bill to amend Title V of the United States Code to designate Juneteenth National Independence Day as a legal public holiday. Without objection, the committee is discharged. The Senate will now proceed to the measure. I ask unanimous consent the bill be considered and read a third time and passed,

and the motion to reconsider be considered made and laid upon the table. Without objection. Mr. President, I ask consent the Senate proceed to the consideration of S. Res. 269, submitted earlier today. The clerk will report. Senate Resolution 269, designating June 19, 2021 2021 as Juneteenth Independence Day in recognition of June 19, 1865, the date on which news of the end of slavery reached the slaves in the southwestern states. Without objection, the Senate will proceed to the measure. I ask unanimous consent the resolution be agreed to, the preamble be agreed to, and that the motions to reconsider be considered made and laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate. Without objection.

Thank you, Mr. President. That was the Juneteenth resolution, which we'll talk about more tomorrow. All right, Mustafa. It now goes to the House. It's likely going to, obviously, Democrats have a majority there. And so President Joe Biden may be soon signing into law Juneteenth as a national holiday in the United States. It's part of American history, and we have to tell the full story. And this is an opportunity for, you know, all the brothers and sisters who have worked diligently to make sure that this became a reality, that all that hard work has

been honored. We just have to make sure that we're also highlighting and telling the other stories that are a part of our journey inside of this country and a part of our country's history. For those people who, Teresa, who say this doesn't mean anything, I'm a native Texan. I was there when the late state representative Al Edwards, my alpha brother, Mustafa, our alpha brother, who led this effort every single session, every session, and got it made into a state law. It actually forced people in the state to actually learn the history of slavery in Texas, to learn exactly what took place. And so for those who say these things don't mean anything, they do because Juneteenth

is the only, Texas when it made the holiday, was the only observance of anything tied to slavery in this country. Yeah, and I think history obviously is just so important. I know here in the city of Philadelphia, June 19th of 2020, we made it a local holiday. So it's good to see it on a national level. But understanding that Juneteenth is not only a celebration of our blackness, but it is a celebration to end slavery. And so, you know, when the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by President Lincoln, it gave the opportunity for people to, one, be aware of their history, but, two, understand that they

are free. And I think that, you know, understanding that it's on a federal level, it hopefully will open the eyes and ears of the day of observance as we do for Memorial Day, as we do for other federal holidays, that this is one step in the right direction. So I don't take it as a minimum win. I take it as a holistic approach to how we move forward. And I'm glad it's President Biden that was able to put this into law. Ben? Ben? Yeah, a couple of things. Mustafa, congratulations to all the people who actually worked on this, because I know that getting it this far was a monumental task.

Juneteenth has been a holiday in my family for a while, especially when we lived in Boston, out in Roxbury, out at the park. One of the best celebrations. You didn't see Black people any other time of the year because it was too cold in Boston. But when Juneteenth came around, you just saw a sea of black people. And it wasn't celebrated nationally at that time. And it's going to be amazing to have a day where we can connect on a level of that celebration that we had in Roxbury every year for Juneteenth. So I'm excited about this. I want to bring up my next guest. He is out of Washington state. He is, of course,

former head of the Seattle King County NAACP. Carl Mack is an historian. Carl, your issues with Juneteenth, your thoughts about this action today, what are the issues? I think they're historically absolutely incorrect, and I think they're insulting to us as a people. Who's incorrect? Those who the Congress that that that bill passing was absolutely incorrect.

So what should have been? OK, so the bill says and what is being taught and I'll just give you specifically in the state of Washington. And first of all, Roland, let me be clear. I have absolutely no problem with Juneteenth. My problem is the historical efforts that are being made and what's being surrounded. I call it the misrepresentation of Juneteenth. And so what happened in the state of Washington is they passed similar legislation. And this legislation has been passed a lot throughout this country.

And in the state of Washington, similar to what they just did in Congress, they said that the legislature intends to designate Juneteenth as a statewide holiday celebrating the end of chattel slavery. So what people have been taught about Juneteenth is that those of our ancestors who was enslaved in Galveston, Texas, number one, they were the last blacks to be enslaved in this country. Number two, that they got the word a year and a half late after President Lincoln had signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Both of those things historically are just incorrect. There is no other way to put it. Now, all one has to do is to understand this. Slavery ended in this country on December 6th, 1865, six months after Juneteenth. Now, going back to the Emancipation Proclamation, which everybody seems to get so twisted. Keep in mind what Lincoln said.

Lincoln said, for those states in rebellion against the union, and there were 11 of them, but in the Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln only mentioned 10 of them. And the only reason he only mentioned 10 is because the 11th state that he did mention was Tennessee. He didn't mention them because the union already had control of Tennessee. So he said, for those states in rebellion against the union, slavery is now over. Now keep in mind, there were four border states in which slavery was still practiced. Those border states were Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky, and Delaware. So when Lincoln said that to him, I want you to imagine this. And you have to imagine, this is just a fact.

When those 11 states left the union, they didn't act as 11 individual states. They formed the Confederacy. And when they formed the Confederacy, in effect, they formed the Confederacy. And when they formed the Confederacy, in effect, they formed their own nation, which means they elected a president, Jefferson Davis. They elected a vice president, Alexander Stevens of Georgia. They wrote a Confederate constitution. They were their own nation, Brother Roland. So when Lincoln issued, quote unquote, an executive order trying to tell

them what to do, That's like the prime minister of Canada trying to tell the United States citizens what to do. He didn't have any authorization. That's why it took a war. So that's why I'm saying to you that when the news is that they got the word a year and a half late, it didn't matter. The Confederacy were their own nation. They didn't give a damn what the United States said, what Lincoln said. That's why it took the war. Now, as far as them being the last blacks enslaved, I just heard your last guest. I've heard all of you say how important it is to get it right. There's a movement that has swept this country that we should all be proud of. Black lives matter. Black lives matter. Do we think that black lives just started mattering? Because let's go back to what happened with the Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln said that in those states not in rebellion against the Union, slavery is still legal.

Keep that going. Two of those states were Delaware and Kentucky. Two of them was Maryland and Missouri. And keep in mind, West Virginia wasn't a state when the Civil War started. It became a state after Virginia seceded. And those 48 counties didn't want to secede, so they became a state after the Civil War. So now let's look at those five border states. Maryland, on November 1, 1864, before the Civil War ended, Maryland abolished slavery. Missouri on January 11, 1865, before the Civil War ended, they abolished slavery. West Virginia, the newly entered slave state, on February 3, 1865, ended slavery. The Civil War ends on April 9th, 1865. Two months later, Granger

rides into Galveston, Texas and issues General Order Number 3, which we now call June 19th. I ask you to remember what was going on in Kentucky and Delaware after the Civil War. What was going on in Kentucky and Delaware after Juneteenth? I'll tell you, Roland, there were 225,000 of our ancestors still enslaved, and they did not taste freedom until December 6, 1865, when Georgia became the 27th state to ratify the 13th Amendment. That is my problem with what is going on in states all across this country. And that is my problem about what just happened in the United States Congress. If you want to designate a date in which all black folks can celebrate freedom, that date, as far as I'm concerned, as far

as history appears to be concerned, is December 6th, because that is the day in which Georgia ratified the 13th Amendment. Now, as it applies to Delaware and Kentucky, keep this in mind, Roland. Delaware didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until 1901. Kentucky ratified the 13th Amendment in 1976. And the state that I'm from, Mississippi, Mississippi didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until February 7, 2013. So do I have a problem with Juneteenth? Absolutely not. Do I have a problem with the historical inaccuracy of it? Every part of that I got a problem with.

And that has been, first of all, for years, we were all Lincoln Freed the Slaves. Well, again, and there were people who took exception to Lerone Bennett and others who corrected that. Frankly, what we have is we have folks in this country with a bumper sticker version of history. The reason I think you see the focus on Juneteenth is I think it goes back to this year because Texas became the first state to actually make it a state holiday. And so what then happened was there were other people who wanted to recognize that fact. And so all of a sudden, Juneteenth events then went out. For everybody to understand, Juneteenth was a Texas holiday. To your point, what you just laid out, that was specific to Texas.

When General Granger arrived on the shores of Galveston, of the beach in Galveston, and delivered that particular announcement. I think what happened was other people gravitated to that, and then it then became this sort of all-encompassing moment to say, okay, here's something that actually recognizes slavery or the ending of slavery in this country. But you're absolutely right. And I think now, I believe now, the opportunity is, now is to, in the words of Paul Harvey, now tell the rest of the story. Absolutely. So listen, so Roland, the thing that the congressman,'re, the, the, the congressman, I think is Johnson. I'm not sure your last guess was.

A former Senator Doug Jones. Okay. Doug Jones. What you and Doug Jones agreed on a lot was it's important to get it right. Today, we as black folks want to say black lives matter. Then what about the 225,000? Now I will, I will, I will give you just a little pushback on why Juneteenth took off. I think part of what you said is right, but the rest of the story is this. We all know that our history

has not been taught. So to what Doug Jones said, there's a lot of black folks that don't know the scholarship of our experience in this country. That's number doubt. And so once we didn't know it and somebody comes in and tells the myth that these were the last blacks enslaved, they got the news a year and a half later. Well, we just took off and ran with it. And then now rolling on May 25th of 2020. Well, that gave another steroid injection to the myth behind Juneteenth. And that day was the day that Rodney King, I'm sorry. George Floyd. George Floyd was murdered. Now you got white guilt everywhere and white folks want to do something.

Damn it, let's just make Juneteenth a holiday. That's fine. But it didn't start with that. I would tell you this. Go back and look at the 105th Congress of the United States. There was a senator from the state of Mississippi named Trent Lott who introduced legislation similar to what was just passed. And it clearly said June 19th, the day that slavery officially came to an end. Then over in the House in that same year, I believe it was it was 97 in that same year, I believe it was 97, in that same year, now you had J.C. Watts in the house, introduced a joint resolution that said the exact same thing, that Juneteenth

is the date on which slavery finally came to an end. So I'm not trying to play the technicalities here. But what I am saying is in the spirit of Harriet Tubman. Right. Ask that sister, baby, why would you keep going back? You free? And she said, how could I be free when my people ain't free? Well, how in the hell can we celebrate Juneteenth as the day on which slavery ended when there were over two hundred and twenty five thousand

of our folks still enslaved in the state of Delaware and Kentucky. Well, I dare say the same as how we celebrate July 4th as Independence Day. And as Frederick Douglass said, what does this mean to the slave on July 4th? And so but here's the last point I make. And this is very simple. What you laid out is why you got to have black on media is what because because here's the last point I'll make, and this is very simple. What you laid out is why you got to have black-owned media. Because here's the piece. The bottom line is, and look, you already see it.

I know ABC is having a big Juneteenth prime time show. All of a sudden, trust me, you're about to see businesses all across America. And here's the deal. I'm just laying in the cut because I'm telling you, every company that wants to try to profit off of Juneteenth, I'm going to hit all of them saying, where's your

black spend? Where's your black-owned spend? See, that's the other deal. It's just like if a business out there all of a sudden dropping Kwanzaa commercials, you got to be asking, how much money are you spending with black-owned companies. Not giving away. So this is

where we also have to have our own media where we can actually have this conversation because this ain't going to happen on MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS. Make no mistake about it, Roland, and to your point, let me say this. I know that you know the Bennett

family who owns the Seattle Media and KRSZI. Of course. Okay. So I wrote an op-ed piece about what I just explained to you all. Not one white newspaper would pick it up, but that got picked up by the Seattle Medium, the black-owned press. And I've always been a huge supporter. And the same way, I listened to the pride that you all had about the legislation being passed. But now we as brothers and sisters right now on your program

are going through a learning moment where we're going, damn, maybe I didn't know what Brother Mac was saying. But we're respecting that. And look, I don't expect you to trust what I'm saying. Just go back and verify. No, no, no, no, no. But I'm saying, but here's the moment. To me, this is the moment. And I'm going to bring my panel in after this. The moment for us is this here. This is now just like that white retired lieutenant colonel when he gave a speech on Memorial Day and when he told the history of Memorial Day and they cut his microphone because he talked about it. It was actually slaves who actually started Memorial Day and then they cut his mic.

This is where we now use the bully pulpit. And so when folks say, hey, any slavery, actually, that's not the truth. So here's my whole deal. This is where we can use the day to say first of all, there should be

a day that speaks to slavery in America. But we also correct the story because because even when we use the word we were freed, we actually weren't. That's why I say all the time that we were tech for the first time. Black people were technically fully free Americans in 1970. It took going through Jim Crow, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, took all of those different things. That's why I say technically fully free.

And that leads into a whole other conversation about freedom. You know, I'll say this, Roland. I'll give you just a little pushback. There is no debate over what channel slavery was. Oh, yes. No, no, I got it. And as such. No, that's why I said freedom. That's why I said freedom. Right. But there is no debate what chattel slavery was. And all I'm saying is on December 6, 1865, that is the day that chattel slavery in this country ended for our ancestors. Got it. And what I'm saying is we should use the day to tell the

whole story and not keep allowing his story to be told. Carl Mack, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. No problem, my brother. Thanks. Go to my panel here. Final comments there. The point there, Musaf, again, it's how do you use, how do you able to tell history?

I do think there is value in the holiday. Our job is to make sure the story is told. Again, I go back to, and let me be real clear, I know everybody in the 1619 Project was great, but as Dr. Greer Carr says, it was a whole... It was decades of black scholarship in Ebony Magazine and Jet Magazine and Negro Digest and others

that were telling that 1619 story long before the New York Times ponied the money up and Nicole Hannah-Jones and others led it. And again, that's not diminishing what they did, but we've had this body of work for decades that have told that story. This is why the first black newspaper, Freedom's Journal, said on March 16th, 1827, we wish to plead our own cause too long have others spoken for us. Yeah. In the environmental justice movement, we say communities speak for themselves.

You know, we have the opportunity, we have the platform to make sure that the full narrative is shared with the country. You know, our triumphs and our tragedies, to make sure that folks understand that we are real, we are full, and we are authentic people. And that's the moment that we have. Theresa. Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing, And that's the moment that we have. Teresa.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing now that this is a federal holiday, what the educational system will be doing in our public schools to make sure that our children and our youth are educated in the proper way. So I'm looking to see what the rollout will be for that. Ben. You know, honestly, Roland, can you just connect me with Brother Matt? Because I got to have him on my show because he had a fire of clarity and a moral certitude, you know, with it that I feel like his voice

should be amplified in that way. So I did not know that particular history. But now that I know, you know, we're going to spread the word. Well, and again, that's, I make the did not know that-that particular history, but now that I know, you know, we're gonna spread the word. Well, and again, that's, uh, I-I make the point, y'all, this is why, uh, this show matters, this is why because our ability to be able to provide a platform to other voices, uh,

who are ordinarily not gonna get, uh, lot-attention on mainstream media. That's why we do what we do, which is why we ask y'all to support what we do, joining our Bring the Funk fan club. Uh, look, it's nearly 4,000 of y'all to support what we do, joining our Bring the Funk fan club. Look, it's nearly 4,000 of y'all on YouTube. It's folks watching on Facebook and Twitter and Periscope and Instagram. You're going to be watching the replay as well.

The bottom line is, y'all, you ain't getting this nowhere else, okay? You got black targeted news out there, but you ain't got black owned news out there. And so if y'all want to support what we do, please do so. Cash app, dollar sign, RM Unfiltered, paypal.me forward slash rmartinunfiltered, venmo.com forward slash rmunfiltered. Zelle is rolling at rollingsmartin.com, rolling at rollingmartinunfiltered.com. We went long, y'all, on some of the topics.

There were some stories we did not get to. My apologies about that. We even have our Juneteenth stinger that I didn't even run. We just went right into it. And so today was like a freight train going. But we certainly appreciate it. Ben, Teresa, Mustafa, thank you so very much for being on today's show. And, y'all, I was that close.

Man, I was that close. After what Carl said and then what Mustafa, Teresa, and Ben said, I was that close about to drop y'all this major announcement. But I got to wait until next month. Y'all, I was that close about to drop y'all this major announcement, but I gotta wait till next month. Y'all, I was that close. I literally was about to pull it up on my computer and do it right now, but I gotta wait. I gotta wait.

But I'm telling y'all, when we drop it, y'all gonna be like, that's what that Negro been working on for the past, uh, since he launched his show? The answer is yes. I'm telling y'all going to be like, that's what that Negro been working on for the past, since he launched his show? The answer is yes. I'm telling y'all. I'm just telling y'all right now.

I'm going to drop it next month. Buckle up. But it's going to be real. We got to go. I'm going to see y'all tomorrow right here on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Holla! This is an iHeart Podcast.