#RolandMartinUnfiltered - #RMU Special Edition: The Future Of Black-Owned Media

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

#RolandMartinUnfiltered Special Edition: The Future Of Black-Owned Media Today is the anniversary of Freedom's Journal, the nation's first Black newspaper, founded in 1827. For the next two hours we'll talk about the state of black media today and where we go in the future. Our guests include black media owners, advertisers, authors, black newspaper publishers and up and coming media companies. Stick around...Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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skill through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Today is Tuesday, March 16, 2021. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered. 194 years ago today, the first black newspaper was founded, Freedom's Journal, in 1827. Our focus for the next two hours, what is the future of black-owned media? I did not say black-targeted media.

What's happening with our black newspapers, black ad agencies? What happened with African-Americans who are in advertising? What's going on in the digital space? We're going to talk about all of that. We got Rich Dennis, a CEO of Essence Ventures. Byron Allen, of course, with his entertainment studios. Also, Carol H. Williams, Terrell Whitley, Sherman Wright. We got Michelle Holmes, Kurt McDonald, a whole slew of people right here talking about the future of black media, black-owned media. It's time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Mark, unfiltered, black-owned media. Let's go. The scoop, the fact, the fine And when it breaks, he's right on time And it's rolling Best believe he's knowing Putting it down from sports to news to politics

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Now Roland Martin here, broadcasting live from atlanta georgia where i am here uh shooting the urban one honors which will air on tv1 and cleo tv black owned media company of course i spent 13 years at tv1 11 years of the time for the morning show also earned owned by One. And it's important that we make the distinction between what is black owned and what is black targeted. Because when you're black owned, it's about who is controlling the content, who is controlling the narrative. In this space that we're in, folks, those of us in the black press, live by the mantra that was written in the first editorial on the front page. The nation's first black newspaper, Freedom's Journal, founded on this day on March 16th, 1827.

That's 194 years ago. This is what they wrote. Quote, We wish to please our own cause. Too long have others spoken for us. That has always been the mantra of black newspapers. Now, it's been picked up by black television, black radio, black digital operations. But the problem that we're seeing is, are we looking at a future that is dim for black-owned media? How do we deal with the changing landscape, America becoming a nation majority of people of color, and now all of a sudden black is hip, black is cool, black means money. But can black people monetize black culture? We have seen an explosion of black targeted media for a very long time. BET used to be black owned, now owned by ViacomCBS.

iHeartRadio launches a black news network called Black Information Network. I have commentaries that run on that network. You've got Complex targeting black folks owned by Verizon Media Ventures. Black Voices used to be black-owned, now actually used to be what black started, but Black Voices now owned under the banner of Huffington Post, which is now under BuzzFeed. We can go on the route, same thing. The route was black-owned, started by Skip Gates, later bought by the Washington Post, later acquired by Univision, later Gizmo Media, now White Hedge Fund owns that as well.

And so there's a lot of black targeted media. But how does that benefit African-Americans and who controls what we cover and what it is we talk about? So we're going to look back and look forward over the next two hours. Right now, I want to introduce my first panel. Thomas Aiello, associate professor of history and African-American studies, Valdosta State University. The author of The Great Vine of the Black South, the Scott newspaper syndicate in the generation before the civil rights movement. Kerry Greenidge, assistant professor, Department of Studies in Race, Colonialism and Diaspora, Tufts University. Author of Black Radical, The Life and Times of William Monroe

Prater. And Ethan McKaylee, author of The Defender, How the Legendary Black Newspaper Changed America from the Age of the Pullman Porters to the Age of Obama. Martin unfiltered. I'm going to start with you, Ethan, because, look, I served as executive editor, gentleman, the Chicago Defender, arguably. And I know in all deference to the Scott family, the Chicago Defender is the most historic black newspaper in American history. talked about and your book lays out is that Robert Abbott, by owning the defender, was able not to just counter the narrative of the Chicago Tribune and the white-owned newspapers, but he was able to establish and control the narrative and speak to a Black-specific agenda because it was black-owned, black-controlled, and black-focused. That's true. That's absolutely right, Roland. First of all, I want to take the opportunity to give a shout out to Professor Greenidge. Congratulations on the Linton Prize.

I was on the judges committee for the Linton Prize, and I of course think that it's a well deserved honor, and I'm really proud that we were able to give it to you for your excellent book on Monroe Trotter, who is in many ways a contemporary of Robert Abbott's. An African-American publisher, Monroe Trotter was in Boston. Robert Abbott was in Chicago. But both of them had a common mission of rewriting the narrative of American history, of changing the way that American history has been portrayed and had been portrayed up until that time. revisionist white historians, people like Woodrow Wilson, and media makers like Thomas Dixon, and who was a playwright, and the folks that made Birth of a Nation. These were all part of the concerted effort to rewrite American history, to leave African Americans out of their proper, to deny them the proper credit of having contributed to

the country before and after the Civil War. This whole effort was made to kind of whitewash, really, African American contributions to American history in the 19th century. And at the beginning of the 20th century, it was Robert Abbott, Monroe Trotter, a whole generation of young publishers. And it has to be said, journalists who worked for those publishers, who stepped in and stepped up and worked very hard to counteract these negative narratives and these efforts to leave out African Americans from their proper role in American history. Kerry, if you do not have black newspapers, if you do not have the black press,

you then go to Negro Digest, eventually Ebony Jet Magazine. If you do not have black newspapers, you do not have the clarion call that attacked Jim Crow. That was the place where black folks were galvanized, black folks were organized, black folks were mobilized. So you cannot separate the role of the Black-owned press from the liberation of Black people from Jim Crow. That is correct. First of all, it's an honor to be on the panel, and I enjoyed your book so much on the Chicago Defender. It was needed and a valuable contribution. And one of the things I point out in the book and that scholars point out is that, and that you eloquently pointed out

in terms of your introduction, placing this in the context of Freedom's Journal, is that you don't have a Black voice that could speak to Black people and also be informed by what Black people and Black communities saw as politically and culturally important if you didn't have a black-owned press. And there were many newspapers at the turn of the century when the Boston Guardian was around and when the Chicago Defender

were around that were works that were supported by white media, so akin to today. But the value was that they were being supported by and written by Black people themselves and owned by Black people themselves. You get a very different texture. So I'm thinking specifically about lynching and the failure of newspapers that were backed by the white press of actually covering lynchings. And it really was not until you had Ida B. Wells and you had the New York Age and you had these newspaper correspondents who were Black who were talking about what actually lynching was, and that lynching was not a matter of rabid African-American men who were out raping white women. It was really a matter of the wholesale political violence against African-American people as

a result of Reconstruction. So a Black-owned press is essential to curating and creating and cultivating a Black democracy and also a Black political participation. Thomas, I want to call you on that particular point there. We talk about, again, the importance of Black people. They set the tone. They established the standard. They were the ones who were championing these issues.

They weren't asking somebody, can we please, pretty please talk to black people? Exactly, exactly. And we have to remember that, you know, particularly in the 19th century, black people in communities, it's a generation that becomes, starts to gain literacy after being enslaved for 400 years. It's a community that has its own rhythms and its own politics that were not being reflected in popular media, certainly, but just not being counted even within their community. So it would be possible to live like in New York and live in Brooklyn in 1890 and not have a newspaper that talked about what was going on in the Black community. And so you can't form a political consciousness or a cultural consciousness or have a radical politics if you don't have something that's on the pulse of that community.

I think that's absolutely right. You know, the Black press, especially at the turn of the century, what we're talking about now, very much has two real functions. I mean, first, it has to make up for all the stories about black America that aren't being produced in white media, because the vast majority of white media is only talking about the black population in relation to crime. But the other kind of role that it's taking here is a reinterpretive press, a way to take those stories that are put out in the white media and to better frame them without the white supremacist bent that goes into those kinds of stories.

And both that compensatory function and that advocacy function are absolutely necessary for creating any kind of unified thinking about how we need to go about fixing the problems that they're reporting on. What should Black-owned media be taking away, learning today for the future, with the demise of Black-owned media after the Civil Rights Movement? So you're asking about what's the status of the Black community, oh, I'm sorry, go ahead. What should Black-owned media be learning

today from black-owned media faltering after the Civil Rights Movement? There were lessons that are repeating themselves. Go ahead, please. Hold on a second. Go right ahead. Carrie first, Eshan, and then I'll go back to Thomas. Okay, thank you.

I would say that the biggest thing to learn is that, and I think this is all media at the moment, is that we're lacking a local press, a local voice. So there's all these, there's black America, and then there's all these little black communities that are really at the center of what is going on globally and nationally. And so having this idea that a big media conglomerate can go and purchase and how you said it, a black focused media and kind of just plug in black people into that. You're not on the pulse of what's actually going on in communities. So that's the first lesson, I would say. And the second one is that, you know, making sure that Black money is going and sponsoring the press that Black community is consuming.

I'll really just follow up on those points, which were incisive and thoughtful. Chicago's got a great example of a very strong African-American produced, owned, and operated digital media. The tribe in this city has done an incredible job through the pandemic of not just keeping people informed, but directing them to resources. I mean, they are the go-to source today, and I mean today, right now, for going and getting vaccines in Chicago. If you live on the south or the west sides, the tribe has the information before anybody else where you can get a vaccine and what the best, easiest way to get it is. And there are senior citizens who I know use the tribe as their only portal online. So it's really kind of an exciting moment in that way. Although, of course, in other ways, a sad and a moment of great need because there's such a devastation in the community, both because of

the disease itself and because of the economic devastation because of the necessary closures and restrictions around it. So the tribe is, to my mind, an example of exactly the kind of media that is needed right now and that other communities should be following. The tribe also needs to follow their own example and make sure that they're building out their base, building out their funding base, making sure that they're getting the support from the community as they grow. And in other words, making sure that the support is from within the community and not from parties interested in the community who are outside. Yes. I think that's a good question.

Thomas, go ahead. Well, I mean, I was just going to just kind of add in there that the South, I think, the Black press in the South, I think, provides a little bit different kind of warning for Black media today, particularly in that post-civil rights movement that you talked about. Of course, the largest Black newspaper in the South, the Atlanta Daily World, takes a real turn and, you know, refuses to support the sit-ins in 1960, and becomes incredibly conservative. While it was a black-owned media, it had to situate itself so carefully around white business interests that it ended up kind of abandoning some of the ideals that it originally had. Many readers felt abandoned.

We end up getting rival Black presses to respond because it was assumed that the Scott newspapers had gone too conservative. And so I think one of the lessons we can take from the Black press in the South in the post-World War II period is that Black ownership is incredibly important. At the same time, we need black independence. And if your advertising base is largely coming from white companies, or if you are situated in a place where you feel like you have to negotiate with the politics of whiteness around you, like so many Southern newspapers were having to do, that it ends up creating a situation whereby even if you are a Black-owned media, you are going to run into these kinds

of problems. And so ownership is important, but so too is independence that comes from Black advertising and financial backing. All right, Dan. Well, we certainly appreciate it. Ethan McKaylee, of course, author of The Defender, How the Legendary Black Newspaper

Changed America from the Age of the Pullman Porters to the Age of Obama. Kerry Greenidge, of course, author of Black Radical, The Life and Times of William Monroe Trotter and Thomas Aiello,

author of The Great Vine of the Black South, the Scott Newspaper Syndicate and the Generation Before the Civil Rights Movement. I appreciate all three of you giving us that historical perspective that allows us to move forward as well. Thank you so very much. Thank you so much. Wonderful. Thank you. Folks, got to go to break. We come back. We're going to talk with Rich Dennis. Of course, he is he owns Essence Magazine, Essence Ventures. We'll also talk with Byron Allen, Entertainment Studios, who has announced he is going to sue the advertising industry for their exclusion of black owned media.

Later in the show, we're going to talk with some black present day black newspaper publishers. Also, African-Americans who own their own advertising agencies and black people also working in mainstream ad agencies about the dollars and how they're not coming to black owned media folks. So we've got a jam packed show. Trust me, you don't want to miss this conversation of the future of black media, a special edition of Roland Martin unfiltered back in a moment. Senators, this cannot be our future. Do not concede Mr. President fight hard. This cannot be the future of America. American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass. Where the fuck are they?

Everybody stay down. People died that day. What message will we send the rest of the world? What happened today in Washington, D.C. is not America. America has stood for some very important things. I think what we're saying in the United States is terribly distressing. Incited by the current president. President Trump. The world is watching and wondering whether we are who we say we are. You are patriots, just like the patriots gathered at Bunker Hill. The election in many ways was stolen.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. At one point, people started chanting, kill him with his own gun. They thought they were going to die. Watching someone use an American flagpole to spear and pummel one of our police officers ruthlessly, mercilessly. We didn't need more witnesses. We needed more senators with spines. President Trump declared his conduct totally appropriate. So, if he gets back into office and it happens again, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

I believe that it's movement time again. In America today, the economy is not working for working working people the poor and the needy are being abused you are the victims of power and this is the abuse of economic power i'm 23 years old i work three jobs seven days a week no days off they're paying people pennies on the dollar compared to what they profit and it is time for this to end. Essential workers have been showing up to work, feeding us, caring for us, delivering goods to us throughout this entire pandemic. And they've been doing it on a measly $7.25 minimum wage. The highest check I ever got was literally $291. I can't take it no more. You know, the fight for 15 is a lot more than about $15 an hour.

This is about a fight for your dignity. We have got to recognize that working people deserve livable wages. And it's long past time for this nation to go to 15 so that moms and dads don't have to choose between asthma inhalers and rent. I'm halfway homeless. The main reason that people end up in their cars is because income does not match housing costs. If I could just only work one job, I can have more time with them. It is time for the owners of Walmart, McDonald's, Dollar General, and other large corporations to get off welfare and pay their

workers a living wage. And if you really want to tackle racial equity, you have to raise the minimum wage. We're not just fighting for our families, we're fighting for yours too. We need this. I'm going to fight for it till we get it. I'm not going to give up. We just need all workers to stand up as one nation and just fight together. Families are relying on these salaries and they must be paid at a minimum $15 an hour. $15 a minimum anyone should be making to stay out of poverty. I can't take it no more. I'm doing this for not only me but for everybody. We need $15 right now.

Hello, everyone. It's Kiera Sheard. Hey, I'm Taj. I'm Coco. And I'm Lili. And we're SWB. What's up, y'all? It's Ryan Destiny. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Welcome back to Roland Martin Unfiltered Special Edition,

The Future of Black Media. Yesterday, Byron Alley, of course, he's the founder and CEO of Entertainment Studios, announced that he is launching a massive lawsuit against the advertising industry. He contends that Black-owned media has been completely shut out of the dollars, getting a paltry amount, and that black-owned media deserves more. He joins us now on Roland Martin Filchert. Byron, welcome back to the show. Well, thank you, Roland. It's really great to be back with you. So it's just good to hear your voice, and hopefully you're staying safe.

This is an issue, absolutely, here in Atlanta. This is an issue that we have been talking about for quite some time. I've been speaking any number of years in black-owned media, running through black newspapers, working at TV One, major broadcasting cable network. I could go on and on and on, supporting magazine and vanguard media. And this has been the fundamental issue that African Americans have faced. In fact, Brett Pooley, in his book, The Billion Dollar Bin,

The Unauthorized Biography of Robert Johnson and BET, he writes in that book, when Viacom bought BET, they discovered that BET was getting $1,500 for a 30-second ad, that MTV was getting $1,500 for a 30-second ad that MTV was getting $8,000. If BET had been getting its proper value for advertising, BET would have been sold for $3.3 billion. They probably would have been sold for $10 billion. So people get excited about, oh, my God, look how much they sold BET for.

But the point is that was at a black discount. Yeah, you know, listen, I'm a big fan of Bob Johnson. And he's remarkable. He's a remarkable entrepreneur. But, yes, he had to deal with the black economic agenda as we, you know, as we all do. You know, there's America is committing economic genocide against us. And listen, you know, I was fortunate enough to to meet and know Coretta Scott King. And I've talked about this before. You know, I had acquired the rights to take her book and produce a movie, a miniseries about her life with Martin Luther King, because I wanted to look at

Martin Luther King through her eyes. And she was the true queen of America. And she said to me, Byron, you know, as black people, we have four major challenges. Number one, end slavery. And number two, end Jim Crow, which I think was more damaging than slavery because when we were slaves, we were perceived as assets and they protected us because we were assets. And the moment we became free, we became a liability. And that's when they started the genocide and they started to murder us and lynch us and incarcerate us. And she said, number three, achieve civil rights. And then she choked up and she said, and number four, the real reason they killed my Martin, achieve economic inclusion. She said, they didn't kill my Martin Byron over the speech, I have a dream.

They killed my Martin over the speech, the other America, the speech he gave at Stanford University, which is an amazing speech and every American should know it. And basically the speech he said, in that speech, he says, there are two Americas. One America has opportunity and access to capital and education and businesses and on and on and on, an abundance of opportunity. The other America does not. And two Americas will not survive. We need to have one America. And the great prophet Martin Luther King Jr. taught us over 50 years ago, over a half a century, we must achieve one America. And we haven't done it. And we're watching this great country have serious challenges because we haven't done that and fulfilled

that promise to ourselves and that potential. So when she told me about it, I said, listen, obviously you and Martin have done an enormous amount. The fourth and final chapter, we will deal with that. Let us handle that. I will focus on that. And she said to me, she said, she was very sweet. She said, you know, you're smart enough to do it, Byron, but you need to know something. And I said, what's that? She said, they will come after you.

And I said, I understand, but they've been coming after me since my black ass was born. Now they have a good reason. And it was something that always stuck with me, her sharing with me how she saw it and how Martin saw it, that we have these four unbelievable challenges as black people. And what I've always said is the greatest trade deficit is the trade deficit between white corporate America and black America. And we have to correct greatest trade deficit is the trade deficit between white corporate America and black America. And we have to correct that trade deficit. And that is what is fueling the economic genocide that you see in our black community. And the way we have to correct that is we have to take action. We can't just complain about it. We can't moan about it. We have to take action. So what I decided to do was use the Civil Rights Act of 1866, Section 1981, and I filed $40 billion worth of lawsuits. And those $40 billion worth of lawsuits against the MVPDs, the satellite and telco companies and the cable companies, they were resolved. They were settled. And I use that Civil Rights Act because it's the very first Civil Rights Act put on the books in America.

And that Civil Rights Act was put on the books in the year of 1866 to protect the newly freed slaves to make sure that we had economic inclusion in government contracting and commercial contracting, because they knew there were people out there that would make sure that we were excluded. And for a while, it worked shortly after emancipation, and we were very prosperous. And that prosperity is what ignited and created the Jim Crow movement

because they saw how well we were doing, and then that's when they brought in the genocide. So these lawsuits, they work. I'm the first to come along and invest millions of dollars and use them to the tune of 40 billion. And I've told Madison Avenue, I took this last year during this pandemic, and I sat with, on Zoom calls, all of the ad agencies and their holding companies and all a lot of the corporations and i said listen you guys spend about 170 billion a year advertising 170 billion a year and black people get close to zero and that doesn't work and we have to bring some economic reciprocity

to this equation and we have to close some economic reciprocity to this equation. And we have to close this trade deficit between white corporate America and black America. So we as black people have every right to ask for 14% of your budget to go to black owned media, not targeted, black owned. But I'm not asking for economic parity today. Today, I'm just asking for economic inclusion, a minimum. And I do want you to hear the word a minimum of 2% to go to black-owned media. I need an ocean of capital to the tune of $3.4 billion to come into our communities so we can fuel and we can fund Black-owned media, because that capital will start to create thousands and thousands of Bob Johnsons and Byron Allens or whoever, because now you've positioned Black America to succeed. And right now, black America is positioned to fail as it relates to black owned media. And owns an ABC, an NBC, a CBS, or a Fox affiliate.

That Byron Allen is the only black man in America that owns a widely distributed general market cable network, the Weather Channel, in America. I happen to have one of the largest privately held media companies in the world, black or white. But that shouldn't be the case. I shouldn't be the one and only in 2021. And so when I'm, and I know what I went through to get here, and I know it would be very challenging for anyone to follow in my footsteps. I'm trying to make sure it's infinitely easier for people, for our people to achieve this level of success. Because I can tell you by design, it is creative to make sure that we are excluded. And so when I told Madison Avenue I'm going to start suing them,

what I did is I have a staff of litigators who only work for me. It's a small law firm, pretty much. And their job is to go out and sue corporations that do not do business with Black America. This is what I told Coretta Scott King that we would deal with. Our people, this generation, will deal with the fourth and final chapter. We will make sure that we achieve economic inclusion. And the best way to do that is through litigation, because for white corporate America, litigation is kryptonite. That makes them crumble. When they're looking down the barrel of a 20 billion dollar lawsuit, they get real religious because what they try and do is drop those four D's on us. When, you know, first they try and dismiss us when we say, hey, there's a problem. You're not supporting black owned media.

And they just dismiss you. And then we get a little louder. And then they discredit you. Oh, look at Rowling. He's getting a little louder. Look at that angry black man. And then once they get to that second D, they move on to that third D because you get even more upset.

They demonize you. And once they demonize you, they're in check with their so-called Christian selves, and they move on to that fourth and inevitable D, they destroy you. And that is what they did with all of our great leaders. They hit us with the four Ds. They dismiss, they discredit, they demonize, and they destroy. And I had to figure out the matrix that we were in, and how do we get out of that matrix? And what I came up with is I said, I'm going to use litigation. You can't dismiss it because it's your platform. I'm using your platform. I'm using your courtrooms. You can't discredit it. You created that. You can't demonize it. I'm not upset. I'm not angry. I'm just saying there's a dispute. And when you resolve disputes peacefully, you go through a legal process and you can't demonize it and you can't destroy it. And it just has its life. And so I found that the best way to deal with this is the process that I've taken, which is legal action, I have to tell you, I'll be 60 years old next month. And the only thing I regret is not doing this 20 or 30 years ago,

because it stops the analysis, the paralysis. It stops what I find with white corporate America and institutionalized racism in white corporate America, is that when it comes time to do business with Black America, they get amnesia. They get confused. They don't know what we're talking about. They don't know how to figure it out. They don't know who you are. Go for it.

In fact, Byron, when you talk about doing business with Black America, which is one of the points that I keep making as well, you don't do business with one. We often see in other sectors, like, okay, you know what, we'll deal with one, when in reality we're talking about a collective. I had someone

who once said, someone said, you know, it's really lonely at the top. And the sister said, well, that's your fault because you didn't bring anybody else with you. What is happening now, what is happening now is that these industries said, okay, you know what,

I'm not picking on BET, but it was like, okay, there's BET. Okay, we'll support BET. And you go, wait a minute. It's not just BET. There are other networks. There are digital products. There are newspapers.

There are radio. So it's not just one. And so then what they do is they actually want us fighting amongst ourselves. They want us fighting with Latinos. Well, they're sitting over there with 95% of annual $150 billion being spent every year. And what I've said is, I've said, look, this is a problem in the Asian community, the Hispanic community, with women and with gays. But my lawyers have said, well, Byron, you know, you're not gay, you're not Asian, you're not Latino, you're not a woman, you have to, you don't have standing. You're Black, and you can only speak as a Black person.

But what I would say to all my brothers and sisters in all communities, that you too should be holding the system accountable. And what I've also said, it's important for Black people to understand you're Black, you're Negro, you're colored, whatever decade you want to go to. But whatever you do, don't ever get labeled a minority. Because minority is not defined as you. Minority is defined as white women. And the money that they spend with white women, they will say, look at my minority record. I'm amazing with minorities. Well, that's precisely

why when I, when we're meeting with companies, I'm vice president of digital for the National Association of Black Germans. I said, I'm here for the B in NABJ, black people. That's who I'm here for. I said, now, the other groups of black people, just a couple That's who I'm here for. That's right. I said now, y'all can go meet the other groups of black people. Just a couple more questions. I'm going to go

to Rich Dennis next. I love Rich. Rich is my brother. I love Rich. Rich is amazing. One of these ad agencies just announced they're having this equity up front. And

we saw it. My team responded by saying, well, who the hell did y'all invite? Because we certainly didn't get an invitation. But here's the thing. The reason they're having this is because they don't invite us to the up front

where they spend most of the money. So here's what happened. So here's what happened. So here's what happened. So I got on the phone, the Zoom call, and I called everybody up and I said, you know, when I sued one of the big corporations, one of the big media companies, you know, one of the big cable operators

for $20 billion, the chairman said to me, Byron, after we settled everything, he said, I got to tell you something. I was really hurt and disappointed that I read about this $20 billion lawsuit in the Wall Street Journal and everywhere in New York Times. He goes, I wish you had called me before you had taken this legal action. And I said, you know what? Next time I'm going to do that. So what I did is I took the last year to call everybody and said, I'm being gracious here, but I want you to know you're in violation of this Civil Rights Act and I'm going to hold you accountable.

There's no scenario in which you can spend $170 billion and a Roland Martin, $170 billion a year and a Roland Martin and others like him are struggling. You're going to put money in our economy the way we put money in your economy. So out of those conversations, IPG decided to have this black up front. I called our good brother, Todd Brown, Todd Brown, who we both love. And I made sure that you were on the list and you were invited. That was nothing more than you just fell between the cracks. But I can assure you, my brother, you are invited. One of the big reasons why I'm doing it is because of folks just like you so you are front row you don't need to worry about that and another a lot other a lot of others just like you and i so this problem will be corrected i'm just the first negro to come

along in 400 years to invest millions of dollars of my own money and go all the way to the Supreme Court to deal with it. And I didn't even break sweat after six years and tens of millions of dollars. And they looked at me and they just said, this guy is not going to let up. They're right. I'm trained to go a million rounds and I will not even huff or puff. There's nothing more important than correcting the trade deficit between white corporate America and black America. And it's not just in advertising. We're going to do this throughout the entire ecosystem. This is how we're going to truly get our people out of chains, out of bondage. Because right now, black America is still on a plantation. It's just a sophisticated plantation with minimum wages where you can barely keep your nose above water, where we are positioned to fail.

They kill us in the school room to make sure we don't get a proper education. They kill us in the boardroom to make sure we don't get proper economic inclusion. They kill us in the courtroom by making sure we're getting 30% longer sentences than our white counterparts committing the same crime long before they choke us to death in the streets. The war is in the schoolroom to make sure we're properly educated. The war is in the boardroom to make sure we have true economic inclusion. And the war is the boardroom to make sure we have true economic

inclusion. And the war is in the courtroom to make sure we have real justice, not only justice in the legal sense and criminal justice, but also economic inclusion. And we're using justice to make sure we get our seat at the table and we have a seat at the table. And black owned is everything. And I had a white guy ask me a great question. He said to me, why is black owned important and not targeted? And I said, because you have a daughter. My daughter was just born. And I said, your daughter is white. My daughter is black. Let me ask you something. Can I control your daughter's image and how she's produced and how she's depicted and how the world sees her. And can

I control her self-esteem? Are you comfortable with that? Are you okay with that? He said, no. I said, why do you think I would feel any differently about you as it relates to my beautiful black daughter? And now that my beautiful black daughter is here, I'm not asking for a seat at the table. I'm taking one. So scoot over. And that's what's happening. I'm basically telling white corporate America, scoot over. That's what's happening. And I'm having a great time.

Well, we're going to stay on top of this and keep covering this and put that pressure on. Byron Allen, I really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. I appreciate you. Thanks a lot. Folks, in a moment, we're going to pull up a Rich Dennis. Y'all let me know when we have Rich Dennis, of course, the CEO of Essence Ventures on. Just so y'all understand, y'all heard Byron talk about up front. We mentioned that.

So here's what happens in television business. The advertising agencies, what they do is, and we're going to be talking to some African-Americans in advertising and also some black owned agencies a little bit later in the second hour of the show. What they do is they have this thing called upfronts where networks come in, talk about their products and essentially what they do is sign ad deals right then. That's where most of the dollars are allocated

during the upfronts. Very rarely is black media invited to the up-front. If you're on BT, you're TV One, you get in the door. But pretty much, if you're not, you're frozen out. You're frozen out. And so understand this industry doesn't survive. You can't have a media property. You can, but you pretty much, it survives on advertising.

That's what it requires. It requires the advertising dollars. That's what fuels media. That's what fuels Disney and ABC and CBS and NBC and the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, Chicago Tribune. But who fuels the ad agencies? The companies. And we're going to talk about this later because here's what happens.

The companies, they go, no, it's not us. It's the ad agencies. And the ad agencies go, no, it's not us. It's the companies. So then you're left with well, who the hell is it? Who do we talk to? I can tell y'all when we've dealt with the agencies. They literally are searching. First of all, they upset that the company made us talk to them and they're searching for a reason to say no. Y'all, $150 billion a year.

Every company with products, they're selling TV, radio, newspaper, magazine, billboards, digital. And what's happening now, because you kept hearing buyers say black owned, when we talk to rich, we gonna talk about black owned. It's because when they're giving the money to black targeted, you're giving the money

to white executives. That's what's going on. CEO of Essence Ventures is Rich Dennis. He joins us right now. Rich, we just talked to Byron Allen about his lawsuit. I'm walking our people to understand how we are systematically frozen out because in many cases, Rich, they don't even invite us to the big meeting. The dollars that we do get is sort of the aftertaste, if you will.

Yeah. Talk about what you've had. Look, you're new to the media business. What you have experienced in this short period of time owning Essence magazine? Yeah, you know, it's a, look, this is an age-old problem. And it's not, it's much bigger, you know, Roland, than media. It is a categoric and systemic exclusion of us in just about every facet of business in this society, and a systemic and purposeful exclusion of our communities from economic prosperity and development.

And so whether it's the media industry, whether it's the beauty industry where I come from, or pick any other industry, that's been what's happened. I think we now live in a moment where we have the opportunity to come together as a community, to come together as business owners, to come together as leaders, right, to partner with those companies that have been built either on purpose or unpurposefully around exclusionary practices and structures. And so our opportunity now is to come together, band together, be very open and thoughtful about how we make the change, but we must make the change and we must stand for the change. Because otherwise we're not going to be able to stand as a community and as a society that has the same level of rights because we won't be able to

afford those rights. And so, you know, coming into the media space and seeing this firsthand of, you know, the unfair rate cards, the exclusion from the larger budgets, the being relegated to insignificant and unimportant budgets and lack of focus on serving our community, on being excluded from being a part of telling our story in our community and being the ones that get to shape the narrative of what our community sees and feels. Like all of these things individually are a problem, but collectively they're a tremendous problem. And so I think coming together to solve them is exactly what it is that we need to do. And here's the deal here, Rich.

This is no situation where we can be diplomatic, where we can play both ends from the middle, where we can be, you know, well, let's sort of have some nice terrain. We literally, and I have been saying this for the last 15 to 20 years, we are seeing potentially the death of black-owned media. If we don't... Not potentially, not potentially, Roland, not potentially. We are watching it, right? It's not potential. We're watching it. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. When I say the death, I mean, like it's gone. Yes. Yeah, no. So when I say the death meaning that's it right now right now we in a coma so I'm I'm trying to prevent us sliding off into eternity and that's the deal and I keep saying to people you do you you we will you do not want to see the day when we're having to ask somebody

else's permission can I go cover black people? You know, I mean, I would say that day is here, right? That day has been here because what is left of black media is a fragment of itself. And it's not enough to even cover what's happening. You know, because of the advertising shortfalls that we get, we can't even field the teams to go cover what's happening in our community. So we're still at the place of where we're asking permission to go like you said you know there's there's no there's there's no there's no sort of moment of rest here around this right like we've got to go hard now because this resuscitation can only be successful if we're if we're doing it together there may be the resuscitation itself will not last if we don't if we don't have a permanent source of oxygen.

The issue that we're also facing, and this is where you now talk about this, Rich, also has to happen. That is, black media also can't, black-owned media can't be in silos. Because the reality is, when you go to war, you got to go to war with troops. And the bottom line is, this is impacting all of us. And if we do not look at this as a collective, then we know what their game plan is. Let's pick off one or two and then send out press releases, say, hey, here's what we did, and celebrate. No. We have to, as they say in the movie One Night in Miami, I don't want the damn crumbs.

I want the whole damn recipe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're 100% correct. And right now, we've been playing for crumbs, right? And so coming together, we want the recipe for the pie, and we want to bake the pie, and we want to be the ones that are sharing the pie too. Absolutely. Rich Dennis, Essence Ventures, we certainly appreciate it. There will not be Essence in New Orleans this year,

so you're having, again, the virtual Essence Festival, correct? Correct. We're going to do it as a hybrid, so there will be some activities that will happen in New Orleans, but they will be sort of much smaller scale, safer, COVID safe. where we can get back to celebrating black culture in the way that it truly is. The way that we're used to doing it, the way that we're excited about exploring each other and meeting each other and congregating and sharing and loving and laughing with each other. But this year, we'll unfortunately have to do it more digitally. All right. Rich, we certainly appreciate it.

Thank you so very much. Thank you. Thank you, my friend. And keep rolling. Let's keep up the fight, man. So proud of you and what you do and how you're always out front for all of us. And we appreciate it. And let's keep this fight up together and let's go because if we don't fight for this,

as you said, we will continue to be asking people, can we go talk about Black people? And that is unacceptable. I agree 100%. Thanks a lot. Thank you, brother. Folks, we've been talking about Black

owned media, but our Black ad agencies also are dealing with this. When we come back, I will talk to four black ad agency CEOs about the struggles that they are facing and how this is all intertwined in the demise of black owned media companies. That is next on this special edition of Roland Martin Unfiltered, the future of black media. Back in a moment. If people begin to believe that their democracy is fragile, if they conclude that voting is a charade, the system is rigged, then God knows what could happen. They rigged an election. They rigged it like they've never rigged an election before. Actually, we do know what could happen. It's happening right now. The U.S. Capitol overrun, under siege.

Pro-Trump extremists storming inside, flooding the halls, breaching the floor of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Millions of Americans sincerely believe the last election was fake. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it. We will not go quietly into the night. When thousands of your

countrymen storm the Capitol building, if you don't bother to pause and learn a single thing from it, then you're a fool. I know you're pained. I know you're hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. We got to this sad, chaotic

day for a reason. It is not your fault. It is their fault. Donald Trump is not done dividing America. He's come out of hiding to find his old friend, the spotlight. On Sunday, he took the stage at the conservative political action conference

in Orlando, Florida, where he lobbed insults, spread conspiracies, and lied. This election was rigged. The same things he's done for four years, with no concern for the destruction he leaves behind. He'll get the attention he cra done for four years, with no concern for the destruction he leaves behind.

He'll get the attention he craves. After all, even condemning him feeds his insatiable need to be seen. Which is why it's more important than ever to remind ourselves that in November, one thing became clear. America is not Donald Trump. America is the people whose names you may never hear, whose only fame will be among those whose lives they touch, but who are the people working tirelessly to get every American vaccinated against COVID-19. They're the disaster relief workers and first responders holding up their Texas neighbors during the harshest winter the state has ever seen. They're the people who show up, lend a hand, and give a damn when their fellow Americans are in need.

Remember them. The lives they lead are the best proof that Trump is a liar. Because America's greatness comes from us, not him. The Lincoln Project is responsible for the content of this advertising. What's up, y'all? I'm Will Packer. Hello, I'm Bishop T.V. James. What up? Lana Well, and you are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered.

Folks, welcome back to this special edition of Roland Martin Unfiltered, the future of black media. This is the at the top of the show. Today is the anniversary of the nation's first black newspaper. Founded on March 16th, 1827, the Freedom's Journal. They wrote, we wish to plead our own cause, too long have others spoken for us. But the reality is, you can't have a successful black-owned media company if you don't have the ad dollars.

You got to have capacity. You got to be able to build and grow. Why was the Chicago Defender, the Pittsburgh Courier, the Atlanta Daily World, why were they so powerful in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s? It's because African Americans were reading them. They were paying that subscription. They had hundreds of thousands of readers. Civil rights movement, Jim Crow ends, black folks start getting hired in mainstream publications Black media began to lose its relevance Also, not getting the dollars

We were benefited, though, with black ad agencies Because when black ad agencies came along You had Ebony and Jet, you had Black Enterprise and you had Essence, and you had these black papers. And so all of a sudden, there were black advertising agencies that were placing ads. There was a relationship, a conduit between black-owned media and black ad agencies. Go through the 70s and 80s and 90s, multicultural, multicultural. And so black ad agencies were getting the multicultural dollars. But as the demographics begin to change, multicultural dollars became mainstream.

And what did white agencies do? They sucked up the multicultural dollars trying to choke off those black ad agencies. So just like black owned media, our media outlets have been fighting for survival, so are our black ad agencies. Fully capable of placing ads, fully capable of running political campaigns, fully capable of doing creative work on advertising, whether they're trying to reach black people or not, the question is, how do they also survive in this changing world? We have four of them with us right now. First and foremost is Carol H. Williams. Carol H. Williams Advertising. She's the Hall of Fame advertiser. Y'all heard, strong enough for a man, made for a woman. That's secret. Well,

that's the woman who came up with that slogan. I'm glad to have her on the panel. We have Sherman Wright, co-founder, managing partner, 1035, my alpha brother, who I play as at Texas A&M. Glad to have him. Clifford Franklin, the CEO of Fuse Advertising. Yes, we do allow capas on my show, Scott Bolton. And Terrell Whitley, CEO, founder, Liquid Soul Media,

a fellow Alpha brother, glad to have you here, representing Florida A&M as well. It's all for you. Y'all been listening to the conversation. So I'm just going to pose it this way, and I'm going to start this way. Carol, I'll go with you first. When you hear the question,

what is the future of black media? What's your response? Well, that's a hard question to answer because our future hasn't been realized yet. It's it's on a rough path, but I think we're powerful enough and strong enough to determine the future of black media. I think what's going on here is recognizing that some real truths and the multiple impacts and implications of what's going on in these environment with our situation, recognizing that the system is systemically flawed. And if we want to make sure that the path of black media is a positive one and ensured,

we have to come together as an industry and a community and lay the strategic platforms that accomplish that. We just can't lead this up to a mass market of diverse agencies because the fight is not about you personally. It's about who's going to get those dollars. And so that really is strategic initiatives and us recognizing our power in this industry and those monies that we're spending and spending that money with companies that are feeding our and putting that money back in our communities.

Cliff, frankly, you and I have talked about this. Same thing happens in politics. It's as if black agencies, look, you could do the same work as these other agencies and sitting here trying to fight for it, trying to fight for the ability to place those commercials, to be able to do the creative as well. And it's the same thing happening.

Democrats depend on black votes, but when it comes to trying to get that money, it's always a different conversation. Well, it is rolling. First and foremost, thanks again, brother, for keeping up the fight. I rarely give alphas props, but I have to give you yours for taking that leadership role. So we appreciate that. Yeah, it has been a struggle. I mean, I think Carl said it well. Before I dive into the political side, I remember when we would have these meetings in Chicago, Ken Smichel would host them, rest in peace, from Target Market News. And we tried to set up an organization called ABBA. You know, that lasted all of about six months of us trying to be unified,

to have a unified voice. I started Fuse in 1997, and we're saying the same thing, you know, now 24 years later. You know, it's almost draining. So as I looked at it, I was one of the first Black agencies to pivot to the political side because I felt like that's where I could still get the traditional media dollars. So I've been doing national politics since 2000, sort of cut our teeth and really got our foothold during the 2004 election when we were working for the media fund. And that was the first time it was Harold Ickes that said, hey, man, I'm going to carve you out a budget and do what you do and sort of let us go. And I do credit Axelrod and Larry Grisolano on the Obama campaign in 2008.

It wasn't nearly enough of what I should have had from a budget standpoint, but they did give me a carve out where I could take care of black owned media. Roland, as you know, when I get a budget, I spend it with black folks. I don't ask for rates. I don't ask for any of that stuff. We just work out a deal because that's how I've always operated. But unfortunately, the general market agencies always find an angle and they always find a way to carve out our dollars. Once they saw that people were going to start paying attention to black voters, all of a sudden the same agencies now either carve out some black folks to now have their own little independent agency under them or they take our dollars. So now we're fighting all over again, same way. Look at the DNC. Look how much money comes from the Democratic National Committee, the DCCC, the DSCC, the DGA, the Democratic Attorney General's Association. Nearly $500 million out of all of those groups, not including the PACs. And it's peanuts on the dollars of what

black folks actually control. It's the same thing, Roland, and Carl is right. We've got to unify now, and again, we appreciate the leadership that you're doing. Terrell, look, a black-owned ad agency is an ad

agency. Depending upon what you want to do, marketing, creative, the placement of ads. What black folks are simply saying is, hey, let our skill set shine through. But don't sit here and hold back and give us 20 cents on the dollar. Don't sit here and don't allow us to be able to compete for the business, not be able to build capacity. Look, a black-owned ad agency wants to be as big as Omnicom and Mediacom and WPP and all of these different agencies. But what happens consistently is the game being played. So we see this in contracting. We see this not just with corporations, same thing with federal government.

We've talked about it on this show. Congressman Eleanor Holmes Norton commissioned the GAO to do a study. Over a five-year period, the federal government spent $5 billion on advertising. Black media got $51 million out of the $5 billion. Why? Because the federal government uses these same ad agencies that are reaping the billions with these private companies. But the government, Joe Anthony, Hero Collective, is suing DDB worldwide right now for $100 million, saying he got cut out of a $4 billion contract.

He says that he helped them win for the advertising budget of the U.S. Army. The question is this here. How much are black media going to get out of that Army contract? Because there's sure a lot of black folks in the U.S. Army. This is such a massive issue, and it directly impacts the ability to create black wealth, hire black people to expand access to this system. Yeah, well, I totally agree. And number one, thank you, Roland, for having me today

and all of our counterparts here, which I endure and love. So Carol, very good to see you. Sherman, my frat brother. Clifford, great to be on with you. And you even had great folks like Byron Allen, who I call a friend, a great friend, and I'm glad to see him, as well as Rich Lou Dennis. So thank you, Roland, for putting together this platform. You know, the issue is extremely systemic, and it's interesting how we over-index

in so many categories, whether it's entertainment, whether it's travel, whether it's, you know, across the board, we over-index, as you mentioned, and so many even on, you know, when it comes to the armed forces or when you look at the NBA and sports, it's a constant scenario where we as a consumer, we're over-indexed, but we will be underrepresented in how we engage, approach and deliver against marketing media and ultimately leveraging black owned media to deliver messaging. a mainstream agency will hire a few black people, and all of a sudden those individuals feel overly empowered that now they have the capacity and they understand all the nuances and they effectively can deliver on the behalf of someone else. And they fail to realize that they're not creating an economic power or economic engine that will service their own. And so the issue becomes even more amplified from that position because folks think that they're doing quite well when in some instances they're actually causing more harm than help. So with this, I believe that you asked the

question to Carol, where does she feel Black media is at this juncture? I personally feel we are in a red alert urgency space. I feel as though if we don't make bold moves, and Byron talked about his bold move as relates to litigation. I know others, like you mentioned at Hero are saying the same. I think we've had some very high level conversations, this group here that you've helped initiate, Roland. I do think we now are at a position where we have to make bold moves to stay out in front. And we have to protect both sides of the fence, meaning we got to begin to protect our Black-owned media. We also have to protect and

engage against our consumers and own our consumer space. But it's so many times when you don't have the resources, when you don't have money flowing in, you can't create an ecosystem that justifies the ends. So at that juncture, we have to turn to mechanisms that will protect us, that will protect the future of Black-owned agencies. I know Sherman will attest to this. I don't know of a lot of young people that are able to build and start agencies at this juncture to deliver capacity like we did some 10 or 15 years ago. And then for Carol Clifford, those that have been in this space even longer, to build that level of capacity and grow

our staff and deliver the revenues consistently with growth has become even a higher challenge. So it makes it difficult to go out and hire individuals to train up the new talent when the budgets and the benchmarks are constantly shifting. So the minute you say, hey, we've ascertained that skill set or we've brought in that particular capability, they move the mark. And the worst part for me is that sometimes the advocacy inside the corporation

becomes our greatest detriment. We think that having some Black executives will help tilt the curve our direction. Instead, many times they become so concerned about keeping their own personal welfare in check that they would rather cut us off at the knees versus helping us integrate and engage further into the company. And here's the I know this has happened to everyone on this panel. Those are the first phone calls I get when that company lets them go. The first person they call is Terrell Whitley said, hey, can you help me out? Can you show me the next opportunity or can you give me the bridge?

And I know you guys all I get those calls all the time. And I'm thinking and saying to myself, well, where were you when I came through the door and I called you and said, I need your support. I need you to champion this effort. So I would say to anybody, a company, a corporation that has decision making power, that has budget, that you to step forward and you be the catalyst to help agencies move the needle. You be the advocate in the room that says we have to go with this agency because they understand the nuances. They know how to help us reach that audience and ultimately generate the right dollars. And I'll finally say this. There was a recent report that was published around the impact of African- Americans to the entertainment industry, film

specifically. And it pointed to a $10 billion differential if the industry actually decided to pay attention to this core level over-indexing audience. And it's a testament that our dollars have power. The question now is, how do we maintain and control the power inherently to deliver? And that has been a constant challenge. So in that retrospect, where do we go? Do we get behind a Tyler or a Will and say, hey, instead of us going through another vehicle, let's create our own. Let's go get the 10 billion dollars. We know that billions exist. Why are we feeling like we have to go through someone else to get to the money? Sherman, you heard Terrell talk about

capacity. Look, here's what happens. Companies say, we need a bigger agency that can handle the work. Well, you're like, well, hell, I can never build capacity if I always get small work. It's sort of like in the 70s and 80s with construction contracts. You couldn't be on a prime contract unless you're being a prime. Well, if you've always been a subcontractor, I never can be a prime. So I can't ever make prime money if I'm locked out of being a prime contractor. Well, Roland, I'm just going to echo the sentiments of my panelists. I'm really honored to be here. Obviously, your voice, we appreciate your bravery and just the boldness. You mentioned it, and you talked about those companies, Omnicom and things of that nature. The game has changed because nobody's building it. It's no longer, if you can't beat

them, you buy them. So consolidation, we're fighting consolidation. You talked about $150 billion domestically. It is a four, almost $500 billion industry globally. 20% of that is owned by 10 companies. You talk about WPP, which is the largest, has a $20 billion market cap. So you're fighting those agencies that you named. They don't come as individuals or independents. They're bringing networks. And we don't have that network.

And a lot of these organizations are looking at consolidation. When you think of these big brands, such as McDonald's or the automotive companies, they build team so-and-so. So if I'm in this holding company, you're going to give me half a 500 million, a billion dollars in business. I'm going to go across my network, get the best of the best, get as many resources as I need. We'll throw resources at it in order to fulfill your needs. We don't have that opportunity. It's a consolidation game that we're fighting. And this is not about alliances. You know, alliances are no longer strong enough to go against Goliath. You can't say, hey, let's work together. You've got to build businesses that are integrated, that can meet the demands, the scale, and the responsiveness. I always say this, you know, use basketball as an example.

Everybody on this call, you know, five for five, their starting five can go against any team that any agency puts out. OK, that's their starting five. All right. My second five, we can hang with them. But when they go deep down their bench and they're bringing their fifth and their sixth and their seventh team and throwing resources after resources, as sometimes we got to call a timeout and say, coach, we're out of breath. We just don't have that many resources. So the competition is no longer about can we do the work, and scale is no longer about even budgets. Scale is about business doing business with business in a consolidated format where you're bringing a conglomerate against a conglomerate. And until we really have that built in that infrastructure, it is a difficult battle to have. I had an opportunity

recently where a client told us we were too small. And he said, Sherman, my last team that handled a portion of this business was the size of your agency. I have a relationship with this organization that throws resources, invest in resources. And you're also looking at the financial aspect. You have some clients that say, hey, Sherman, to get into our business, we have 120-day receivables that you can't expect to dime. Maybe on hard costs, I'll give you 50% upfront on production, but on your fees, I can't pay you to 190 to 120 days later. Can you handle that? So when you're getting into those infrastructure challenges, this is not about talent. This is not about do we have the wherewithal to strategically, intellectually, or creatively hang with the best.

It's really do you have the resources. Say there's three things. There's access, information, and resource. We're not getting access. We get a third of the information that some of our counterparts are getting. And we don't have the deep financial bench and wherewithal to really wait it out. You know, Byron brought up a great point. He said, I threw tens of millions on this lawsuit and I wouldn't go away. What happens is individuals outspend you or they out-resource you where you just have to tap out. So I think we have to look at it through a different lens because we're not fighting the pound for pound. We're going against networks where it's individual agencies fighting conglomerates.

And unfortunately, David doesn't win with this, Rob. Carol, the thing here is, again, what we're talking about is whether or not we, here we are, black people, tastemakers, trendsetters. The story came out the other day, black influencers making far less money than white influencers. Black influencers creating these dance crazies on TikTok and then all of a sudden somebody white does it and they're getting six, eight, 10 times more money.

That is dealing with the black tax. This is a society that values whiteness over the competency of black folks. And this is where I think we have no choice but to stop asking permission. And we have to be aggressive in demanding change. And so whether it's a lawsuit, whether it's applying public pressure, calling folks out, challenging companies to say, don't just put up your Black Lives Matter statement on social media, practice Black Lives Matter in how you do business. You know, that's absolutely right. But, you know, we have to look at the fact that we're not living through extraordinary times. These times have been with us since the beginning.

We've seen all of this before. It evolves. The language evolves. But it's all the same thing. From our work, we see recurring things. They are ongoing. They're recurring. They matter more or with the difference inflections

to African Americans. They have to do with a distinct set of experiences that we have as a culture, as individuals, and manifest in important ways stemming from living in a systemically radicalized society that continuously denies the existence of overt racism. You can call it overt racism, but it really is so built into our system that what is common, they've commonized the common. They have, what people don't even recognize what they're doing as racist any longer. Here are some of the hard truths. Each has multiple impact implications on its own and interaction in our interactions with others.

It is expensive to be black in America. Our success as individuals and families is less secure than our counterparts. And that insecurity forces these internal cultures, blacks, in internal corporate situations that make decisions that are not to our best interest as a community. The recognition that these companies see us as money, but don't see the value of us as a community. Our success, our radar, our sonar inside, and now all of us, all of these guys here who I know, who I respect, who we worked on many different things. We've been competitors and we've been friends and supporters. Have learned a lot about the difficulty of even getting in competitive positions, to be fighting against these one little squares. When I say that our radar and our sonar is more finely tuned,

it's hypersensitized. It's social and cultural signals across universal dimensions, like status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, fairness. The stakes of our choices are always higher. And culture and ethnicity are a shaping force in our lives. We recognize that. We have to deal with that. Yet I see a persistent yet utterly outdated approaches,

persistent and outdated approaches to marketing that value efficiency or effectiveness and are on the rise. I think one of the biggest things that I recognize is what was being said a minute ago about, I think it's what Clifford was saying, it's the games that are being played and not being distracted by those irrelevancies. They're not talking about us being smarter, smaller. They're talking about them getting the money. They're not talking about us being less, having less resources. They're talking about they are getting the money. That's where our strategic platforms have to be developed and taking place because we always get distracted a lot of times with this narrative over here

and the narrative over there, and it becomes the shaping forces in our lives as entrepreneurs. But the narrative is always, always, where is that dollar going and who is going to get it? And we need to really put this out there so we can bring in more of our consumers, our supporters, because they're not going to give us those dollars if our consumers continue to buy those products. Of course, when I go to a focus group, I see, would you rather see an all-black commercial or a commercial that's highly integrated?

And our consumers say, we'd rather see a more integrated commercial. That may be politically right, but it certainly doesn't do anything to help your community. Well, speaking of that, Cliff, look, we've experienced this in so many ways. When you hear the certain things being stated, Terrell talked about the idea with some black folks on this as well in terms of how they operate. And look, one of the things that, and we got to just learn how to call some folks out. I had some black folks, black organizations came out of their mouths. Well, you know, there are no black ad agencies that can handle the capacity. I said, what?

And I literally sent them all of y'all numbers, your cell phones and your emails. I said, don't ever say that crap again. I said, you sound like a white executive saying black folks don't have the capacity. I said, if you as a black organization, if you won't hire a black ad agency, how in the hell are you going to make an argument for somebody else to? Roland, that's exactly right, and you and I talked about it. I mean, it's

insulting, and it's shameful. When you think about the capacity just on this panel, everybody on this panel can get down with any agency in the country. When I think about the fact that I took a stand years ago when I stopped going to, you know, the 4A's conferences, and I never ended my work into those, the Negro award shows. I've always ended my creative work

into the mainstream award shows. I've won my share of best of shows, one show pencils, communication art awards, because I refuse to be marginalized. And I was blackballed for that. And I know that I was blackballed for that. Maybe it wasn't the best fiscal decision from organization at the time, but I did so. But then you look up and somebody has the nerve to be able to question how we can produce work. It's an insult when you look at the majority of the work produced by Madison Avenue is mediocre at best. And then when they do try to make a veiled attempt at trying to do something relevant, I mean, they got to go and get a Jay-Z or somebody, you know, and they're going to have to dial it up as best they can with a celebrity. But most of the work couldn't touch the work that we do on this panel. But that's something that we have to deal with. But if you look at it from political campaigns,

how many Black campaign managers do you see in any governor's races, senatorial races, presidential races? I think the last time we've had a Black campaign manager, it may have been Donald Brazil with Al Gore. How many Black folks do you see controlling the budgets of any of these political campaigns? They'll go get a black person that'll be over black media and they'll do faith-based outreach. But when it comes to actually somebody controlling the dollars,

it's always somebody white. But we got to get to the point where we take a stand. Don't send your work in to these ad-color and mosaic award shows and all that and give them political coverage that you're doing something for black folks. Stop supporting them. That's what I did years ago.

I stopped supporting them. Black folks want to do something, I'll support that. I'm not supporting the mainstream stuff because I know that it's been racist and then I know that they're going to marginalize us. We collectively have to take a stand. We're at a point now where it's DEFCON 2. Might be DEFCON 1 when it comes to

black agencies. I'm one of the few who I'm in a unique position. I have an ad agency and I have GFN TV. So I got the ad side that I deal with, and I got the side where I'm trying to get ad dollars, what Byron talks about. I've pitched all the major agencies, and of course, they want to go through all their metrics of why the platform is platform is too small well was quibi too small oh uh uh i can't remember the number rolling you may know the number 500 million or whatever they spent on quibi before it even launched and you know yeah no they raised one they raised almost two billion yeah raised two billion and then the ad dollars committed pre-launch was incredible so you're gonna not they don't have any metrics,

but Roland and I have to have metrics in order to get an ad buy. I mean, it's an insult. And, you know, part of it, though, is we have to stop begging for dollars. I think even from a platform standpoint, we've got to figure out how to aggregate our numbers into some newly formed multi-channel network or something so that we can remove the excuses and say, we've aggregated the numbers, now what's your excuse? We do have 20 million viewers. Now give us this amount. We have to just figure out something. And as Terrell said,

as well as everybody else, we've got to make some bold moves now, and we've got to start swinging from the shoulder. I don't think we have a choice. Final comment, Terrell Sherman. Terrell, you first. One of the things that I think is real critical, and we've all said it, is how do we connect and collect ourselves? Roland, I would say this. If you said, Terrell, give me some solution, where do we go? What we did, you and a group of us recently, which is we said, listen, we're going to go to the largest spender that we know, the largest ad spender, which is the federal government. And we got to say to the federal government that you guys have,

you've allowed roadblocks to come up for walls to be built to keep us from playing. And if we can produce legislation, if we can get on the Hill and provide information all the way down to, you know, if we have to, you know, you know, really petition them to say, Hey, we need to not only have a carve out, but even if these four agencies right here said, we're going to come together to be prime on one, if you just said the army prime on the army, that alone would give us a major bump, all of us, collectively,

right? And they know across all of the different agencies, they've been marginalizing us and keeping us outside of the front door for the longest. So the key is where can we provide a very targeted, specific impact that says, and can we really gate it? Because you know this, and I know this too, the minute we go to a corporation, the minute that leadership changes, well, a lot of the other policies and a lot of other expectations change. And whereas Black Lives Matter mattered to people a year or two ago, it may not matter in a year or two from now because of leadership changes. But if we can institute things through legislation and impact against the government, I think that there's opportunity there for us to not only have a baseline and a floor to build from, but something relatively sustainable. Right now, we're missing that.

Final comment, Sherman. You know, I'm going to build on the last comment. And, you know, I'm a fan of partnerships, consolidations, and mergers and acquisition. You know, shout out to Will Campbell and Quantacy out in LA. It's a partner agency. We've worked together on several instances where it's about the win, not about who's going to get what. As I shared with you, Roland, we had an opportunity. We got a multi-million dollar deal. I brought another partner in. I actually got the smaller of the cut, but it gave me a bigger opportunity to even grow. And they did what I needed to be done a lot better than we did,

and they had the breadth and the depth. So I think you just, we have to kind of reevaluate our strategies. What's the win? What barriers do we got to overcome? This is not about the individual. You know, even individuals coming together, it has to be individuals coming together to give scale with a unified voice, even to the extent of a unified P&L. You know, a lot of clients just don't want to deal with a lot of difference. They want to know that I got one single source, and the partnerships have to agree and align and say, this is about the win of the group, not the individual. And if the group wins, each individual wins,

versus how do I win with a group? And I think that's just a strategy and something that we've been working on probably for the last six months, having to kind of reimagine, re-engineer, and relaunch our value proposition. And we've had some great success with clients and looking to build on that initiative. And I just, you know, love supporting you, love supporting the group. Most brilliant minds and some of the best creative I've seen on this call. There's a future generation coming up with some others. We just have to, you have to keep up the fight and understand it's about us all

winning. Carol, Cliff, Terrell, Sherman, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Gotta go to a break. When we come back, black folks who are working inside of mainstream ad agencies, how

they are also standing up and fighting on behalf of black-owned media. That is next on this special edition of Roland Martin Unfiltered, the future of Black media. Back in a moment. If people begin to believe that their democracy is fraudulent, if they conclude that voting is a charade, the system is rigged, then God knows what could happen.

They rigged an election. They rigged it like they've never rigged an election before. Actually, we do know what could happen. It rigged an election. They rigged it like they've never rigged an election before. Actually, we do know what could happen. It's happening right now. The U.S. Capitol overrun, under siege. Pro-Trump extremists storming inside, flooding the halls, breaching the floor of the House of Representatives

and the Senate. Millions of Americans sincerely believe the last election was fake. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it. We will not go quietly into the night. When thousands of your countrymen storm the Capitol building, if you don't bother to pause and learn a single thing from it, then you're a fool. I know you're pained. I know you're hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us.

We got to this sad, chaotic day for a reason. It is not your fault. It is their fault. Republicans know their ideas aren't popular. That's why they lost the popular vote in all but one election over the last 32 years. So after losing the White House and the Senate in 2020, Republicans want to make it even harder for you to vote. In Georgia, Republicans are trying to pass bills that would eliminate ballot drop boxes, repeal automatically registering voters when they

get driver's licenses, and limit absentee voting. And in states Trump narrowly lost, Georgia and Pennsylvania, Republicans are trying to cut mail-in voting, falsely claiming it perpetuates voter fraud. Let's be clear, voter fraud is a myth. Republicans know they can only stay in power preventing people from voting. This is who they are. Our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace know they can only stay in power preventing people from voting. This is who they are. Our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down. Don't let them get away with stealing your vote. Vote them all out before they take away your right to vote. The work you do is important.

A lot of people depend on you, and you deserve respect. Respect includes making a decent wage that reflects how hard you work for your community. So what's the best way to make sure you get the pay you deserve? Join a union. Union members are paid more than people with similar jobs who aren't in unions. For women and people of color, the union difference is even greater. The respect you deserve, the pay you've earned. That's the union difference. Your work keeps the community safe, but what keeps you safe at work? People in public service face unique dangers and we need the

right training, resources, and staffing to stay safe. But how do we make sure we have what we need to stay safe on the job? We join a union. Union members negotiate for the resources we need to keep us safe at work and protections if we're injured on the job. Union members are better trained and better protected. Job safety. That's the union difference. The work you do is important. A lot of people depend on you, and you deserve respect. Respect includes making a decent wage that reflects how hard you work for your community. So what's the best way to make sure you get the pay you deserve? Join a union.

Union members are paid more than people with similar jobs who aren't in unions. For women and people of color, the union difference is even greater. The respect you deserve, the pay you've earned. That's the union difference. What would you say to a young person who says, look, I'm trying to change our society. I'm trying to change this world. Man, I ain't got time for this church stuff.

I just don't think y'all legit. Oh, man. I would say just because you see an artist in music that you don't like, do you stop listening to hip-hop? No. It's, like, ridiculous. You see one artist do something that is what their choice was, has nothing to do with the whole industry or the whole art form of hip hop. You don't throw out hip hop. So the same way, if you see an artist that you don't like, do that.

I would ask you, don't do the same thing with the church, because just because you see one minister, one man or woman do something that you don't agree with. Don't use that as an excuse to demonize an institution that could actually help save your life. You know, I am who I am because I was raised in the church. You know, all the things that I'm able to do in the world are directly related to being brought up in a healthy church environment where I learned how to develop my gifts. I learned how to communicate. I learned how to deal with other people. I learned how to lead all of those things that help me and other people become successful in society. You can learn in the church. So I would say to somebody that's young, I would, I would challenge them. Everything that's in you, if you're trying to get it out,

get into a good church because that church will be a fantastic incubator for all the gifts that are in you. And when you find the right church, you will find that the others that you may have been looking at were the wrong people to look at in any profession. I don't care what it is. You're always going to find people that you can point out that may not represent that profession to the best of their ability. But when you find those that do, then you begin to see what it really is about. Hey, I'm Cupid, the maker of the Cupid Shuffle and the Wham Dance. What's going on? This is Tobias Trevelyan. And if you're ready, you are listening to and you are watching Roland Martin,

Unfiltered. The death of George Floyd caused a reckoning all across the United States, including in the advertising industry. African Americans in that industry began to speak up, demand a number of different things, challenging power when it came to promotions, hiring, CEOs, creative directors, but also how they were spending their dollars. When you talk about the future of black media, black-owned media, it also means

having partnerships with our brothers and sisters who work inside of these major companies. We have two of those joining us right now, Walter Gere, Executive Creative Director with XXD, B-M-L-Y-N-R, and Michelle Holmes, Managing Partner of Mediacom. Glad to have both of you. Michelle, I want to start with you. You've been listening to this conversation. You and I have talked in the past, again, about the importance of Black-owned media, sort of where we stand, what's going on. Your assessment, how does it look now, what needs to happen when it comes to changing the dynamics at play when it comes to Black- dynamics at play, when it comes to black-owned media, being able to access, as Sherman said, the $500 billion being spent worldwide.

Thank you, Roland, for having me. Incredibly honored to be on the stage with you this evening. Just so that we can jump right in, what I would say is that I'm really confident now that we are seeing progress. I love and appreciate that we had some of the other black professionals who created and signed the letter and the mandate asking the industry to really think about how they were investing in African-Americans. And I would suggest that that provided me with even more confidence in the progress that we were already making. I heard, you know, your panelists speaking earlier. And what I would say to that is we've really seen a transformation at our agency specifically. And we've been on this journey before all of the social injustice erupted.

We were investing in our employees. We had already had groups set up. We were already creating a global belonging council, which I'm the co-chair. But more importantly, we were really thinking about how we make diversity a real solution rather than looking at it as a problem. Because if you think about it, the new majority, as we're calling really multicultural audiences, we had projections that noted by this year, we would see those audiences overtake the audiences of, you know, other persuasions. And for us, that meant we needed to not only have the diversity in our talent, the diversity in thought, but also ensuring that we were equipping our clients to be ready to advertise and target these audiences. And so we have been on this transformation,

I would say, for a few years now. And so I'm just really encouraged by the momentum that we're seeing. The thing here, Walter, you've been speaking out on this, speaking out in terms of where the industry is. And the rally is, I mean, obviously, in terms of media placement is one thing, creative is another. But at the end of the day, this is also about black folks being frozen out of these industries. This is here we are in 2021 and we're we're barely coming out of the madman age, if you will, where it where it was all white male dominated, run, controlled, reaping the massive benefits from it. You know, this is about, again, black folks being able to say, can I use my skill set

and get paid like them as well? And make sure also that companies that are run by people who look like me are also getting a fair share. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, I like to say that this is very similar to how quarterbacks in the NFL years ago, right? Back in the 80s, we saw very few, right? And a lot of that was around the fact that they thought that, hey, maybe these individuals aren't smart enough to do the job. I liken that to the same way I see creative directors today, right? A creative director today is essentially the quarterback of an agency.

It's a quarterback of the team. These are the individuals that are calling the shots, that are making the plays, going out and doing the pass and getting the touchdown, right? So they're responsible for a lot. And what's unfortunate is I feel like advertising in this space today in terms of creatives and creative executives is very much so like quarterbacks were in the 80s.

Yet we've seen folks like Rand you know, Randall Cunningham and all these brothers change the game completely. When we look at it on that field now, it's a complete diverse kind of landscape. But the problem is when we look at these agencies, it's like the same thing. So, yeah, most certainly I think that there needs to be a hell of a lot more representation at the top. And we talk about, you know, creating an atmosphere where we feel comfortable in an atmosphere where we can thrive means we need to see individuals who look at the top because when you have individuals at

the bottom that are coming in there right and we're not focusing on retention which is like why these people are leaving in the first place we're missing on a lot right so i think that you know we need to show a path to the top and this is why we see mistakes like h m or gucci with the lips on the sweater is because we don't have representation at the table making these shots or calling these shots, excuse me. And not only that, Michelle, it's also understanding when you have, look, it's a classic inside-outside game. When you have people who are on the inside who are hearing the conversations, who are seeing how folks are being systematically left out or removed

or not included, it's vital to have folks like you and Walter and others who are saying, hey, hey, hey, hold up, wait a minute. So we overlook these things over here for these companies, but we're holding these black media companies to a whole different standard. That's also important. You've got to have black folks on the inside who are saying, I've got to represent my people on the inside. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And, you know, I would say the mandate and the call to action, and specifically at our agency, is that we do a tremendous job bringing in talent, you know, director and below. But now the mandate is really around bringing in executives like myself who are

sitting in the C-suite who have not only just the intellectual capacity, but also the political capital to really influence and affect change. And I can tell you, you're seeing more and more of that at our agency and across the other agencies within our holding company. But you're absolutely right. We have to have more representation and not just, you know, one, but, you know, we need to be able to count those people so that we can have, you know, support in numbers. And you get support when you have more than just one person. And I do see that shift happening. I was using a clubhouse conversation earlier today, Walter, and I made this comment on there that, you know what, I'm tired of seeing companies be given diversity awards because they hired somebody black,

because they sponsored a table. No, we must see real substantive changes that result. I'm not I'm not interested in moving inches. No, this is about this is about moving feet moving yards this is about saying hey how did we grow the capacity of this firm how did we how did we actually uh support uh a black agency a black owned agency or a black owned media company and and how did we uh take them from this level to the next like we do with other folks as well, because at the end of the day, if we don't demand that level of radical change, we're going to be 50 years from now having a similar conversation like, oh, wow, we went from one to two people or two to four people. No. The level of patience we have is wearing thin. It's small. It has to happen.

Well, so that's the problem, right? The problem is this, right? It's like there's a hell of a lot of us out there that want to speak up, but no one wants to say anything, right? There's this fear of, oh, well, if I say this or if I post this or if I do this certain thing, then I might get fired. So there's this concern. And I think, excuse my language, but it's bullshit, right?

What I want to see is I want to see people out here talking about having these conversations. I need to see people out here being transparent. It's about holding people accountable. Holding people accountable doesn't necessarily mean I have to be an a-hole to somebody. It's about asking the question. And I commonly ask the question of a lot of executives and a lot of leaders in this space on social media, because I want people to see this conversation happening. It's important that we see the individuals like myself, like Michelle, like yourself, who are out here asking the question of people. And it's important that we see that we can hold them accountable and that these leaders are actually coming to the table to have these transparent conversations. Now, look, I completely get and understand

that change isn't going to happen overnight. It's not going to happen in a couple months, but it's been a year, right? What I want to see is I want to see these agencies, I want to see these companies stand on the same soapboxes that they stood on a year ago when they all posted that black square, when they all said, hey, we're going to donate all these millions of dollars. I went through the same individuals to come back with that, you know, beating their chest the same exact way and say, here's a change that we've made thus far. And if you haven't made a lot of change, let's just be honest and say, hey, guess what? We dropped the ball. We didn't land where we wanted to. However, this is what we've done. And this is the changes that we plan to make moving forward. It's all about transparency. But you know what, Michelle, to the last point Walter made, this is the last question for you.

I hear when you say, hey, it's not going to happen overnight. But you know what? Actually, it can. John Landgraf, I hope I'm pronouncing it right, was the president of FX. He he sent an email, company wide email where he said. Why are 88 percent of our directors white men? Why are almost 90 percent of our showrunners white? He said, that's not America. He said, I love white men, but I'm sorry. This has to change. We can't be a company that creatively is ignoring half of the population when it comes

to women, ignoring blacks and Hispanics. That email went out and he ordered the change. Six months later, significant change. More than half of the showrunners, new shows coming on, were people of color or women. When Al Newhart

was the leader of Gannett, he said, we're going to be the leading media company who comes to diversity. I am tying your bonuses to it. And if you don't like it, you got to leave. It actually can happen extremely quickly, but you've got to have boards of directors, CEOs, C-suite, making it clear. We're not accepting any more of your excuses. The general counsel at Coca-Cola, I'm trying to get him on the show. He said this diversity crap ain't happening. So I'm not going to financially penalize the outside law firms we do business with

to the point that I may pull your contracts with you will no longer do business with Coca-Cola. Michelle, I can guarantee you because he said that you will see overnight a change in diversity of those law firms because he he's talking about the money. Oh, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I think, well, we are we've already seen that with some of our clients and we'll see that more and more as we onboard new clients, that they have similar mandates around diversity, what that looks like for people of color, what that looks like for women. And they're expecting that whether you're on a pitch or whether you're in the business, that those people are showing up. And what that means is that we won't really have the courtesy of time to try and find those people. We have to be ready now. And I'll say what we have been doing in our agency is making sure that whether you're a woman, whether you're at the intersectionality of an LGBTA person, as well as a woman, as well as a person of color, that across the globe, we are shoring up our employee base to make sure that we are representing

really the communities that we serve and the clients and the audiences that purchase those products and services. So I think the mandate that he's provided is spot on. And we have a similar one with executive goals and mandates that are tied to compensation as well. I mean, nothing is off the table in terms of ensuring that we are representing really the communities in which we work, in which we serve. And if you have more CEOs and CMOs of brands with similar mandates, I agree that you will see that change happen faster. I will say that I have been really encouraged by some of the recent clients that we have onboarded who have been really, really vocal

and holding our feet to the fire to make sure that their client teams are really representative of the audiences that not only they want to track, that they have. So I think there's momentum. I hear Walter's vehement frustration. I do think that agencies right now are happy to be held accountable and are happy to, you know, to the extent that they can

and they should demonstrate where they've made progress. But I do think it's also incumbent upon people like Walter and I, where we have political capital, to keep advocating for people who look like us. And I mean, I did a post on LinkedIn recently just about hiring Black women. And in that post, I named executives that I knew within our agency, across our other agencies saying, hey, if you really want to see progress, you need to hire black women. And I'll tell you, some of those same people started to reply that they agreed with that. And so I think we should totally challenge people to keep doing the right thing so that our voices are heard and we really see change.

If we are quiet, I think, you know, momentum can slow and that would be really unfortunate. Michelle, Walter, we appreciate it. Thank you so very much for joining us on this special edition of Roland Martin Unfiltered. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Take care. All right, folks, going to a real quick, quick break. We come back.

We'll talk to two historically black newspapers. That's right. Out of Houston and Philadelphia, as well as an upstart digital operation out of Chicago. That is next. Roland Martin unfiltered the future of black media. Back in a moment. And for me, the reason I see the value. So my parents worked elections. They volunteered for campaigns. They ran phone banks. I remember being seven, eight, nine years old. It was like you had no choice. Not like you had a vote. It was like, yo, go over there for the next eight hours, stand there and hand out these papers to anybody who's walking in.

And then we'll bring you lunch. and then you've got some water for yourself. It's kind of like, okay. Again, that wasn't likely my brother could say, no, we're all right. We're going to stay at the house. It didn't work that way. And so for me, that was a huge part of my upbringing. And look at you now. And it's very interesting because for me, service was a huge part of my upbringing.

And that's just something that's just, you know, it's a natural thing. I don't think twice about going out and doing community service. I don't think twice about giving up my Saturday mornings, even if I stayed out late on Friday nights. I don't think twice about going to church in the mornings. So I think that might be even bigger than the civics piece in schools. I mean, I think that at this point, having that in schools at least gives the children the opportunity to go home and ask their parents, so mom, dad, what is this? What do you think we should do about this?

This is what I learned in school today. Let's talk about it. At least gives the children something to bring home and start a conversation with. However, if the parents start that for the children, then the children can go to school and say, hey, why am I not learning this here? Why don't I have a civics class? You know what I mean? for the children, then, you know, then the children can go to school and say, hey, why am I not learning this here? Why? Why don't I have a civics class? You know what I mean? And they'll have we'll have more Roland Martins running around here.

Hey, I'm Donnie Simpson. What's up? I'm Lance Gross. And you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Folks, we started the show talking about this being the 194th anniversary of the nation's first black newspaper, Freedom's Journal, founded on March 16th, 1827. So what is happening today when it comes to the black press? Well, the black press is not just newspapers. It's also digital. Joining us right now is Sonsira Masai-Giles.

She's the CEO of the Houston Defender Media Group. Bob Bogle, of course, who runs the Philadelphia Tribune Media Company. And we also have two more newbies to this, if you will. Morgan Elise and Tiffany Walden, co-founders of The Tribe. That is, of course, a digital shop out of Chicago. I'll start with, let's see, who am I going to start with first? Let me start with, let's see, who I'm going to start with first. Let me start with Sonny. I interned at the Houston Defender and worked there as managing editor, so

you get to go first. Houston always gets more love than anybody else on this show. How is, you're in a city, 700,000 African Americans, black mayor, a city with a strong black educated class, entrepreneurship class as well. What is your strategy in this world of you know, fragmented media to still be a major force there in Houston covering local news there in Houston? I think what's happening, Roland, among the Black media, particularly Black press, is that we're evolving. We are basically morphing into a whole new business model that is much more digital, I should say digital-centric, but is also more focused on the audience. And not just the audience as a whole, but more so audience segments in order to be more effective in penetrating our community. I think we're looking at the e-marketing, we're looking at social media as being the distribution arms.

No longer are we distributing a newspaper to a grocery store for people to pick up or dropping it home delivery. Now we're looking at delivering it to your email or delivering it through your social media platforms. And as a result, the mechanisms for delivering that news that we traditionally have always provided over these hundreds of years is going to be about what is to the benefit of the community, whether we're advocating, educating, entertaining, or just in some cases, providing the basic information to improve the quality of their lives. Bob, Philadelphia Tribune, arguably one of the nation's top black newspapers. When you have your NAP awards, you guys win a lot of those. How have you made sure

that your staff doesn't fall into the trap of, well, you know, we a historic black newspaper, and you're basically running off of what you used to be in the past, as opposed to saying, no, no, no, I got to sell the Philadelphia Tribune today. I've got to be talking about what

we're doing today. All that Sonny said is quite accurate. We are in a significant transition, print to digital. And while black newspapers continue to tell our story as no other media does, we have got to be able to bring content that our audience wants. We cannot take them for granted. And quite frankly, if we expect to be competitive in media environment, we're gonna have to do that. The reality is that African Americans

need to be very sensitive to doing business with people who do business with them. And you can go and say whatever you want. White media is certainly looking at black audiences. They are trying to hire more and more African Americans. But the reality is no one tells our story like we do, and quite frankly, we as African Americans need to be sensitive to those who are interlopers or those who in fact say they are telling our story,

don't in fact tell that story. I wanna go to the co-founders of the tribe, Morgan as well as Tiffany. Morgan and Tiffany, I ran the Chicago Defender. And I remember also ran the Houston Defender, but also Dallas Weekly as well. And being in Chicago, it was interesting because I was there from 2004 to 2007. And we launched the first audio, first black audio news source podcast in 2005 video podcast in 2006. And the owners of the paper then came to me they're like you know what are you

doing what's this podcast and stuff why are we doing this we just want to be a small community newspaper and I said you're going to be dead. Rally is Chicago Defender still alive barely they're not publishing they're not printing anymore. They're completely digital. And what it has done is it has created an opportunity for the two of you to come in, create a digital-first outlet that speaks to the needs of the people today, and that's how you're able to thrive. And I think really a lot of black newspapers

better be very careful of not paying attention to that changing marketplace because you can ride yourself into extinction if you don't. How have y'all been able to take advantage of folks being slow to move to digital there in Chicago to be able to grow the tribe? Well, I think as being millennial publishers and understanding ourselves and our audience, people are getting news through social media. They're getting news through going through their feeds every day. So we just noticed the trends and decided to hop on. And I

think, you know, me, I'm a publisher that is coming out of a completely different space. I came up in documentary film. Tiffany came up in newsrooms. We were able to approach media through a very, very fresh lens where we didn't have all of these preconceptions about what journalism is supposed to do. We just saw a need and decided to fill it. And one of the things that stood out to me coming out of the journalism world, I went to Medill, graduated from Medill and also interned at Ebony Magazine. I was there when a lot of people were being laid off at Ebony Magazine. And one of the stories I kept hearing from people was that it took Ebony so long to transition to the internet. And even at the time that I was there, you know, our articles were barely going online. Everything was so focused on

print. But I have two younger nephews and, you know, just watching how they consume media, even myself coming out of college in, you know, 2011, the way I was consuming media at the time really informed the way that we wanted to distribute the news, especially here in Chicago, where a lot of people are getting their news digitally. So people aren't, especially millennials, aren't really going to physical copies of publications anymore. Everything is online. So we really wanted to take advantage of that

and start with an online publication. And I just want to add... Yeah, go ahead. Really quickly that print really wasn't an option for us financially either. I mean, it takes a lot of money to print every day, but it costed us $2.99 to buy the tribe.com with two eyes. And that's why we have two eyes.

So we just, we had this fire and this passion to reshape the narrative of black Chicago. And we just got rid of that barrier and print was a barrier for us. And we said, we can work with the resources, which we can work with the resources that we have, which is no money and go ahead and just start doing the work. And that which what we can work with the resources that we have which is no money and go ahead and just start doing the work and that's what we did sunny and bob uh local local

local uh we had wendell pierce on he talked about um the consortium of black media outlets there in new orleans uh demanding uh equity of from corporations, from companies that are based there. For both of you, the ability to continue to survive and thrive, has it also been because you've made it clear that look, when it comes to the city, we got this on lockdown and making it clear to those advertisers that you cannot ignore the black consumer there in the city, not trying to play the national game, but saying we're going to be hyper local to ensure that we're getting those dollars.

Sonny, first. Well, if you're really focused on the community and the community knows your focus, which they do, then they will support you. You're there reporting the facts. You're helping them not only improve the quality of their lives, but you're telling them where the opportunities are. And as a result, they know that you're investing in them and therefore they invest in you. I think that oftentimes I'm listening to the young publishers and I can remember when I bought The Defender at age 27 and I was talking some of what they were talking because the old guard was not moving the color and computers and things of that nature.

Now the audience is shifting, the business model is shifting. But the reality is we're all of us about better providing information for the community to empower them to take action, to be able to improve the quality of lives and their children's lives in our community in general. So I think that when you talk, Roland, about the mere fact of where are we going as far as black-owned media, I do not think we're dead. I think we're just changing. The mere fact that we're talking about 1827, there's some resilience there that

has sustained the black press. And I predict that it will continue to sustain the black press. We just have to adapt to what our audience needs are. Bob, how did you, did you have to confront moving some folk to their own divine good who resisted change, who resisted having to evolve as a business? Bob, do you hear me? Yes. Yes. There we go. Go ahead, Bob. Go ahead. African-Americans are a majority. We represent 43 to 44 percent of the total population. And what you said is a fact that we have to present ourselves in a way

that our readership responds to that. And it's a competitive environment where non-African American newspapers are, and media are looking at our audience. And we have to be competitive in that environment to bring content that is of interest to our readership. The fact that non-African American businesses do not support our businesses is still a factor. You hit upon it. And I'm going back to something I said before.

African Americans are part of the problem, part of the solution. We have to support those businesses, but we also have to give them what they perceive they need and want. And that is local content that is of interest to them. But we also have to make a living, and that is we have to look at those businesses that have historically denied us and turn to African Americans to support those that have historically brought them content and news that has been of interest to them. Final

question for Morgan and Tiffany. A lot of people are podcasting. A lot of people are trying to go digital. And so how are the two of you fending off upstarts who are looking at y'all and say, oh, we can do that?

A lot of people approach us and say, hey, we want to do what you do. And a lot of times I say, no, you don't. No, you don't. Because this was a lot of work. I think a lot of people want to maybe start a production company and they want to put out content when they want to put out content. But once you call yourself community journalism, you then are accountable to the community. And Chicago lets us know that every single day.

So we are doing impact-focused journalism where we are out in the community, where we are trying to uphold democracy and institutions. It is a lot of work and a lot of pressure. And it takes a special kind of person to take on this type of role in the community. So, yeah. Anything to add? You said it perfectly. You said it perfectly. Morgan, Tiffany, Bob and Sonny,

we appreciate all four of you joining us out here on Roller Martin Unfiltered for this special edition. Keep up the good work, Roland. Thank you very much. I will do. Thanks a lot, folks. Folks, I wanted to do this because Because we have to understand that no one tells our story better than us. And if we do not stay focused on building, mobilizing and organizing, then we're putting our future in the hands of someone else. Imagine if there was no North Star from Frederick Douglass. Imagine if there was no Ida B't have a Chicago defender to work at. Imagine if an Ethel Payne did not have an opportunity to work at a Chicago defender. Imagine if Claude Burnett did not start the Associated Negro Press or John H. Johnson with Ebony and Jet, where would Simeon Booker and Leron Bennett have gone when it came to writing about the experiences of African Americans in Jim Crow

America? Where would they be? And the reason I say that, where would a Vernon Jarrett out of Chicago who also worked for the Defender? And I dare say, why does it matter? Because y'all need to understand. In 1990, I had an internship with CBS in Dallas, non-paid. There were relatives who lived in Dallas, but I went to get me a job to intern. And they were folks talking about, you know, the opportunity to intern at CBS News. Couldn't afford it. But I stayed home. And I applied for a writing job at the Houston Defender. And I said to Sonny, I said, Sonny, I can't do this for free. I got to get paid for it. He looked at me like, say what? Because internships were not paid. I said, I can't work for free. And I think I got two hundred and fifty dollars.

Was it a month? I don't think it was a week. Maybe it was a week. Could have been a week. I think it was a week, but also worked at Wendy's. But when the summer was over, I had more than 70 newspaper clippings, which put me in a position to be able to get a job the following year at the Austin American Statesman when I graduated. The first opportunity to become a news executive was at KKDA radio, not black-owned, black-targeted. But that's where I got an opportunity to show what I can do. And it was a black newspaper I got an opportunity to be managing editor, Dallas Weekly. And it was working at the Houston Defender managing editor.

It was later running Tom Jones' BlackAmericaWeb.com as executive editor. It was working as a news editor on the national level for Savoy Magazine owned by Vanguard Media. First opportunity to produce in television, radio broadcast and cable network, election special in 2000. Fast forward, 2004, Chicago Defender. In between that, I had done some writing for the Dallas Examiner.

Had owned my own Christian newspaper in Dallas. Black owned. Leave the Chicago Defender, go to CNN, sign with TV One, doing commentaries. CNN didn't want to give me a weekly show. TV One gave me a weekly show. Black owned. Weekly show in

2009, ends in 2013. We launched a daily show in 2013 Last four years, 2017, it gets canceled I launched this platform This is probably my 12th or 13th black-owned media platform Why am I laying this out? Because my professional career The first time I got paid

Was at a black newspaper. Folks, imagine what could happen if we could build the capacity of black newspapers and black websites and black digital operations and black networks. If we could build them and black digital operations and black networks, if we could build them, then who is going to truly hire the next Roland Martin?

Who is going to hire the next Chuck Stone? The next Vernon Jarrett? The next Alice Dunnigan? And we should not be in a position where we believe in white validation. Y'all, I have never in my life desired to work for the Washington Post or the New York Times.

I didn't believe that I can only do great, impactful work if I worked for a white media institution. Never believed it. But we have to be able to have black owned media that's paying our people fairly. That's being able where they can live and grow and prosper. That only happens with the advertising dollars. Folks, the opportunity that we have right now is to make clear,

get all these black targeted outlets out here. But we got to demand to these companies that you are going to support black owned media. You, all you companies are going to have to tell your ad agencies stop freezing out black-owned companies because we have to abide by what Freedom's Journal wrote on March 16, 1827. We wish to plead our own cause to long have others spoken for

us. We will not all be here for eternity. We hate to think about it. I know I do. We all have an expiration date. We have to ensure that 194 years from now, there is a black media entity that will be alive. That we'll be prospering to celebrate the 398th. Anniversary. Of. Freedom's journal. It can only happen if you use your voice and make it possible.

Folks, that's it for me today. If you want to support what we do here at Roland Martin Unfiltered, your dollars matter. Just like people subscribing to Chicago Defender, the Pittsburgh Curry, the Atlanta Daily World, the same thing you can join our Bring the Funk fan club. What do we ask? Minimum 50 bucks each from our fans over the course of a year.

The stuff is not free, okay? One of the reasons the signal is not great today y'all because our live view unit uh yesterday the heart of hardware is messed up we've got to send that unit back to get repaired a new one doesn't arrive till tomorrow normally we roll with two i only have one but guess what that unit right there that's a 25 000 unit so that's why right now we're on we're actually on facetime having to go through the computer, camera through the computer. That's why our signal is not as strong, as great as it normally is, because these things cost money. You want to join our Arena Funk fan club, support us via Cash App, dollar sign RM Unfiltered.

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Folks, that is it for me. I will see you tomorrow right here from Atlanta. Again, hopefully our new unit is in. We'll have a much better, stronger signal on tomorrow's show. But that's it. Thank you very much to everyone who participated on our show today. Folks, support black owned media because we need it. Take care.

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