#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Roland, Jemele Hill, Mark Thompson Deconstruct The NFL/Jay-Z Deal + What Does This Mean For Kap?

Episode Date: August 26, 2019

Roc Nation, the entertainment company founded by rapper and businessman Shawn "Jay-Z" Carter, is entering into a multiyear partnership with the NFL to enhance the NFL's live game experiences and to amplify the league's social justice efforts. A lot of people are wondering what's really happening here. Jay-Z showed tremendous support for Colin Kaepernick who still doesn't have a job after being "whiteballed' by the league for taking a knee during the national anthem in protest against police brutality. Roland Martin spoke with Mark Thompson, host of Make It Plain and Jemelle Hill, Staff Writer at The Atlantic about the controversy surrounding Jay-Z partnering with the NFL during Wednesday's edition of #RolandMartinUnfiltered. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. You can make this possible. The entertainment company founded by rapper and businessman Sean J.Z. Carter is entering into a multi-year partnership with the NFL to enhance the NFL's live game experiences and to amplify the league's social justice efforts. That's what the press release says, but a lot of people are wondering what's really going on here. Now, J.Z. showed tremendous support for Colin Kaepernick, who still is being

white-balled by the NFL. He's ready to play, but NFL, not one team has picked that phone up to call him, even though they got some scrubs, some scrubs who are playing in that news conference today, which is actually invitation only. I was invited, but Mark Thompson of Make It Plain Radio, Mark actually went on our behalf, and so we're going to talk to him in just a second. But Charlamagne Tha God of The Breakfast Club asked Jay-Z how could he partner with the NFL on social justice when Colin Kaepernick, who brought it to the attention of the masses by peacefully protesting against social injustice, is still being denied a job. Now, here's the deal. This is what Jay-Z said.

Was to bring attention to social injustice, correct? So in that case, right, this is a success, right? This is the next thing, right? Because there's two parts of protesting. You go outside and you protest, and then the company or the individual say, I hear you. What do we do next? Right? So for me, it was like action, actionable item. What are we going to do with it? Like everyone heard, and we hear what you're saying, and everybody know I agree with what you're saying.

So what are we going to do? You know what I'm saying so we should millions and millions of people and or we get stuck on Colin not having a job okay some of you may be wondering why were we only hearing Jay-Z and seeing photos well first and foremost no video cameras were allowed in this news conference it really wasn't even a news conference. It was invitation only. There was no speaker and no conference call line there. So for reporters who were not in New York to actually participate in this,

no social media was allowed, no photos were taken. The photos that you saw there were actually supplied by Roc Nation. Now, normally that's not how news conferences go, but that's actually what took place. Now, still there's a lot we don't know about this partnership between the NFL as well as Roc Nation. But Carolina Panthers safety Eric Reid, former teammate of Colin Kaepernick and who continues to take a knee during the national anthem, has his doubts. In a series of tweets, Reid questioned the deal in light of the recent backlash against Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, saying this. Interesting timing on the partnership with Jay-Z on the heels of Stephen Ross' fundraiser for Donald Trump

and the backlash his other companies are getting because of it. He went on to say you and some others seem to misunderstand that we had no beef the NFL until they started Perpetuating the systemic oppression that we are fighting by blackballing Colin and then me now I won't quit playing but I will be a royal pain in an NFL's ass for acting like they care about people of color By forming numerous disingenuous partnerships to address social injustice while collectively blackballing Colin, the person who brought oppression and social injustice to the forefront of the NFL. Joining me right now is Mark Thompson, host of Make It Plain Radio, who was at the news conference there on behalf of us at Roland

Martin Unfiltered, and also Jamel Hill, staff writer for The Atlantic. I'm going to start with you, Mark. Again, they decided no video, no conference. You could only do the audio recording portion of the Q&A. Were you struck by those decisions? And do you feel as if you got a clear understanding as to what this deal is between Jay-Z, Roc Nation, and the NFL?

Well, in answer to the first part, thank you for having me on, and greetings to Queen Jamel as well. When I got there, it was peculiar. And when you do that type of thing, it makes you wonder whether or not there's something to hide or some guilt or some defensiveness. Why wouldn't they let us film? Why wouldn't they let us take pictures? They didn't even want us to tweet while we were there in the room. They did allow us to record the Q&A part of the session, but it was a bit unnerving and

unusual that they wouldn't let us do anything live or share any video. Overall, I would say that Jay-Z was a little bit defensive. And let me just say, I have a lot of respect for him. He may mean well. We know the power and influence and the voice that he has. But there was a little bit of defensiveness, which to me raises the question, why would you even put yourself in that position where you would have to be defensive about this? Charlemagne and I both asked him about Colin Kaepernick. And, you know, he said some very interesting things, including, as you just heard in that clip, we reach millions and millions of people

or we get stuck on Colin not having a job, which, I mean, to say that one is stuck on that, to me, is a little bit insensitive. But he's a capitalist. He's a businessman. I think he sees an opportunity. The NFL certainly does. But I think it's a big risk because I think people are going to scrutinize this. And one of the biggest risks of all is that if he's going to be trying to manage and attract acts to come into the NFL, and mind you, this isn't just a Super Bowl.

They're going to be developing soundtracks and videos with major musicians around the NFL. Basically, the NFL is going to try to marry itself to popular music and popular culture. And we can talk later about what that agenda is all about. It's very interesting. Never seen anything like this before. So you'll be getting theme songs rolling in, Jamil, throughout the NFL season by major artists. They're going to be doing soundtracks. They're going to be doing videos. And so on all the digital streaming platforms, your music experience is likely to be very much tied to the NFL and promoting the NFL

to be an incredible cross promotion. I just think it's naive to think that music and entertainment, while it's often used to as an opiate for us, I don't think it's going to work this time. There's so many issues out here. And I also don't think that the players themselves are going to let this keep them from demonstrating or making the statements they feel they need to make. Jamel Hill, Jay-Z had a quote where he said, I said no to the Super Bowl. You need me. I don't need you. And I guess for me, where I'm just still confused, I've been to NFL games. I stopped going when

Colin Kaepernick was assigned. It's been now going on three years. Here's the reality. I hear hip-hop right now in NFL stadiums. I see other acts as well. I see what happens in Atlanta. Just what's your understanding of this partnership?

Just what do you make of it? Well, I think it's very confusing because um i'm just you know jay-z is a shrewd guy i mean we we don't have to qualify everything that we say as we talk about this that it feels like we have to because that just speaks to the level of respect that he has um especially in the african-american community but But I think he either misplayed his hand or isn't quite seeing really the big picture in this. You know, all those things that they're talking about doing with social justice are things that Jay-Z was doing anyway.

He doesn't need the NFL to do that. He doesn't need the NFL's validation. He doesn't need their platform. And he doesn't need to broker another music deal. And while I get that this is an opportunity to maybe bring some other artists and to obviously implore more people, particularly people of color around a huge global or huge national brand like the NFL, at the same time, he has to understand that the NFL ultimately got what they wanted. They wanted to have a cultural

connection with the community because I think they realized, especially after Kaepernick struck that deal with Nike, that there were a lot of Black people or a lot of people that supported Colin Kaepernick and were willing to not watch their product or were certainly willing to not hold the league in that high esteem that they were used to being held in because of how they felt about him. And early on or throughout most of this saga with Colin Kaepernick, they have doubled down on the people who have been shouting against him. And now they're trying to win back all the people who were shouting on his behalf. And it just looks like

Jay-Z allowed himself to be used as that entry point to do that. And I guess I would say that I understand, at least from what I'm hearing, why Colin Kaepernick is so disappointed. Because you can't wear this jersey on Saturday Night Live, wear his jersey on Saturday Night Live, and talk about some of the issues that you've talked about, and then turn around and strike a deal with the same people who on one side of their necks say that they're about issues that disproportionately impact people of color, but on the other side have gone into overtime to make sure a bright,

promising quarterback like Colin Kaepernick have a job. So I don't know how those things can marry to one another, because obviously for them, they still hold a lot of things against Colin Kaepernick, and now they've been able to divorce him from the issue that he started. This wasn't, no disrespect, this wasn't Jay-Z's cause. And so for him to kind of come in and kind of take over the movement, I guess I'm just a little bit confused as to how this all has gotten to this point. Both of you, I'm going to read this.

I'm going to mark you first. This is what Jay-Z said. With its global reach, the National Football League has the platform and opportunity to inspire change across the country Roc Nation has shown that entertainment and enacting change are not mutually exclusive ideas Instead we unify them this partnership is an opportunity to strengthen the fabric of communities across the America How I mean, I'm just I'm just trying to understand the NFL is about the shield, period. It's about how do you how do you make a 10 billion dollar a year entity hit 12 or 15 billion dollars?

That's what this is about. And so I was trying to understand how will soundtracks and videos somehow speak to this issue of social change marked to what jamel said the reality is you can do social justice work i mean colin kaepernick is doing social justice work independent of the nfl with his own money yeah yeah i yeah, I agree. And I think you're exactly right. What I found in the room was not only can individuals be narcissistic, but if corporations are people, they can be narcissistic too. And there's this attitude,

I mean, Goodell even said it, that this is the biggest thing in the world, the NFL as an entity. There is nothing bigger. There is no greater attraction on the world stage. And to use that attraction to try to impact social justice through music, I mean, why not just cut the middleman out? You're right, music already exists, relationships already exist. Why not just cut the middleman out and go straight to the social justice piece? But you're right, this is going to make money. Obviously some artists are going to benefit.

But the saying, even what Jemele was saying about how it is somewhat baffling and shortsighted on Jay-Z's part, I mean, Jay-Z has a great reputation. He has his credibility intact. What if he reaches out to artists to join him to collaborate with the NFL? And those artists say to Jay-Z and the NFL, and Jay-Z in particular, no, because I'm standing with Cap. I mean, why he would want to even risk putting himself in that position is what is very, very confusing to me. So I'm sorry. Go ahead.

No, no. Finish your point. I'm going to Jamel. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's pretty much it. So you're right. It's about money, the collaboration. But it's entertainment.

It does one thing. But entertainment is useful when the stars themselves speak out on social justice. Entertainment, sports is useful. Athletes are useful when they take a knee. But it's missing how performances, soundtracks, videos, all of that is going to also at the same time meet some of our social justice demands as a people. Jamel, when Jay-Z said, you know, this wasn't about Colin Kaepernick getting a job, but the reality is the end result of this black man taking a knee and playing the, and this is the thing that people need to understand. The quarterback position is the premier position in the NFL. It is the most visible position.

And for them to say, not only you're not going to play, we're not even going to call you. And to say that, well, he brought attention to the issue, but the issue is really bigger than Colin Kaepernick. No, they're sending a signal that fine if you're a wide receiver, okay, Kenny Stills, fine if you're a defensive back, Eric Green will let you back in. But what you will not be is the face of the franchise, the face of the NFL, and have the audacity to take a stand. And that, to me, is where a Jay-Z could have said, I will be more than welcome to do this deal, but I will not do the deal as long as that black man is not given another chance

to play quarterback. And that simply didn't happen here, Jamel. No, I mean, and here's the thing thing though um roland you also have to see how the nfl checkmated this whole thing they went for the head of the snake the head of the snake is jay-z yep because i know you brought up a few minutes ago about or it was brought up by mark a couple seconds ago about how other entertainers will you know maybe they say no to jay-z nobody says no to jay-z that's why they went after him because between him and his wife you're talking about arguably the two most powerful people in music

and nobody's going to say no to them in fact excuse me by him striking this deal they feel like now they have permission and it's okay to deal with the nfl again because jay-z is doing it which is what the NFL wanted. You know, what happened at the Super Bowl this year, if everybody remembers, is that Colin Kaepernick was the talk of the week until the game. He wasn't even there, and he was the talk of the week because Roger Goodell had to answer repeatedly why he wasn't in the league. The entire Super Bowl halftime show was clouded by the fact that you have somebody like Adam Levine and Maroon 5 who suddenly have to answer to the fact that they are performing when Colin Kaepernick is out

of a job. You have Travis Scott. It's the same thing. And you want to keep the NFL in that uncomfortable position. And I'll say this. I mean, the NFL feels a different kind of resentment getting back to what you said about, you know, positionally, a quarterback having different expectations than, say, somebody like Kenny Steele's a wide receiver or any of the other players who have taken a knee. You're absolutely right. A quarterback is considered one of the faces of the league and certainly the face of their team. But the other thing, too, is that Colin Kaepernick was a first. See, the name that Donald Trump hollered out, it wasn't Kenny Steele's. It was Colin Kaepernick. And he was the one in their mind that caused them to get caught up in a bunch of political drama

and really caused a rift in their fan base, caused a rift between players and owners. They blame Colin Kaepernick taking a knee for all of those things. And while, yes, Jay-Z is absolutely right, this is bigger than Colin Kaepernick. But again, he doesn't need the NFL to bring attention to some of the same issues that Colin Kaepernick was. And considering that Colin Kaepernick started this by making an individual choice, he did not put together a movement. He made an individual choice to take a knee to bring attention to some of the issues that he felt like were severely impacting communities of color. For the NFL to now do everything in its power to make sure that his face, that his beliefs, that his blueprint is taken off this issue. They just played a really great game of divide and conquer.

They did the same thing with the Players Coalition, with Malcolm Jenkins. They're doing the same thing now with Jay-Z by getting him to essentially, while he may still support Callan Kaepernick, but basically have to denounce him to be a part of their league. And Mark, that is it.

The NFL was all about get this off of the front pages. We're tired of Rihanna lighting us up on social media. We're tired of other entertainers. And so, yes, go for the master stroke. Go for the biggest impact possible. And yes, they couldn't get Beyonce. So look, guess what? You talk about you're getting

jay-z robert crapp at the center of this these conversations go back to last year according to the wall street journal five different conversations over the past year you also have this back and forth because uh the folks at rock nation uh said that jay-z absolutely talked to kaepernick jay-z said though when he was asked about that, well, he did not talk to him about it. He informed him on Monday that he was doing the deal, but it's not like, hey, let's talk about if I do this deal. Mark, that didn't happen.

Well, I asked him point blank today, did he speak with him? And he told me yes. And I asked him what was was Cap's reaction? Is Cap supportive of this initiative? And he refused to disclose. He said he would not disclose his private conversation with Cap. I can tell you for a fact, Colin Kaepernick does not support this, was not made aware of the details of this. I can tell you that for a fact. Mark, go ahead.

So there's that, which also you put that together with the veil of secrecy, no cameras, no social media. And then if we know for a fact that he's not spoken with him or not really invited him, because another question was asked of him in the conversation. Another reporter with the New York Daily News went at it another way and asked him, did you invite Colin Kaepernick to be a part of this initiative? And Jay-Z's response was, Colin Kaepernick's pretty much, I'm paraphrasing, not an exact quote, he's pretty much a grown man. He's got to make his own decisions about what he has to do. And, I mean, I don't see how that goes over. I was looking on social media while we're talking, and much of the reaction to this is negative.

It is not seen as a good thing. So, you know, I don't think that this is going to really change anything. And we asked you, Charlemagne also asked today, why don't you give Colin Kaepernick the job? The NFL could change its image overnight by simply doing that. Right. In fact, it could shut down all of this. It could literally shut down all of the criticism.

The fact that people are still calling him out is because he's being white-balled. Yeah, yeah. And until they do that, this is not going to be resolved goodell said though uh captain can sign with the team any day he's ready i don't know what he's talking about i mean what what teams are talking to him right none that can't be true right that can't be true and of course they all want to put the condition also as goodell about uh what is the anthem policy currently, if there's one, and are they going to use this new initiative to smother that? In other words, let's say players want to take a knee on the current issues they've been discussing or other issues.

A player might want to take a knee this year around white domestic terrorism. Got it. That's her. He's right. That's real. And Goodell and Jay-Z said to me, why don't we be positive, Mark? Why don't they say,

let's come to this initiative to address those issues? So it's not really very realistic. Right, but what? Come to a music initiative to address white domestic terrorism? I mean, that's, what the hell we gonna do? Make a video?

No! Right, right. Jamel, I- And see, the other question is, are these music videos, all these, is this gonna be protest music? Is this gonna be conscious music, woke music? Who knows?

But still, that doesn't do it. Jamel, I want a final question for you. Mark is gonna stay. Final question for you, Jamel. Do you believe, because I do, Jamel, I believe it's time for Colin Kaepernick to publicly speak. I know he's released a video. I think, and again, let me be real clear. I felt this way before this deal was announced.

I said this months ago. It's really been like three years. He's communicated through tweets, Instagram posts, posting videos. I believe it's time for Colin Kaepernick to sit down with one person or two or three

of us or whatever and talk about this issue, talk about being white ball. He can't talk about specifically the settlement, but the things he can talk about, talk about him white ball he can't talk about specifically the settlement but the things he can talk about talk about him still wanting to play because there are people jamel who are saying bruh we need some sense of direction because what are we watching are we not what's going on so jamel your thoughts about that i would agree with you that at this point, I do think that he needs to say something.

And I definitely understood why he wasn't before. You know, when there was that lawsuit looming, he didn't want to basically make the mistake that NFL owners did, where a lot of their comments that they said in the media were definitely used against them in that collusion case. So I understood why he was quiet then. And I know that he's working on his own content initiatives, and so that also probably has a lot to do with it. But at the same time, I think if anything, he needs to talk, not necessarily to give people a sense of direction,

because again, I often remind people of the fact that Colin Kaepernick made an individual choice. When he took that knee, the intention was not to start a movement. Other people jumped on and began to do the same thing for their own personal reasons and out of support for him. I understood that. You start something that's such an individual decision,

it gets a little tricky to navigate because of what the original intention was. Look, I don't think that, you know, Colin Kaepernick could tell people to watch or not watch the NFL. But what I do think he can just continue to make clear is the reasons why that he decided to take his stance. And also, frankly, I mean, look, I know when you settle with somebody like the NFL, there's probably stipulations about things that you could say, but I really do think that he needs to shed light

about how the NFL operates. I've covered the league for years. I understand how they do, which is why none of this surprises me in terms of them, you know, kind of making this chess move with Jay-Z because that's kind of what they do. And so I think he needs to give people an understanding

about what he has been up against, and maybe that will allow people to make their own decision about whether they continue to be NFL fans, about how they feel about these partnerships, and how they feel about the league in general because I think there's still a lot of things that people, you know, don't know. And, you know, when you have a league where a number of owners, this is what a lot of people need to understand.

Roger Goodell, the owners don't work for Roger Goodell. It's the other way around. Right. And I do get that Jay-Z, like a lot of people, black people in his position, have thought that a good tactic is always working inside out. Okay? I totally understand that. But given what they have him doing, yeah, you have the social justice element of it,

but you also have things in the NFL that the league needs to answer to. The lack of black coaches, the lack of black GMs, the lack of black black defensive and offensive coordinators they have a whole lot of issues in their league and i just don't see it jay-z being able to impact that part because that honestly that's the part that really matters learning the nfl by creating music and creating content and the nfl is very they're very suppressive they're very controlling about their image. They won't even let players wear certain things, wear certain socks. So all of a sudden, they're just going to allow a bunch of artists to say whatever they want about social justice and put it out on their platforms. I don't see it. Jamel Hill with The Atlantic. Also,

check out her podcast. We appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. All right, folks, back to our un-filtered video in just one moment. All right, folks, Life Luxe Jazz is the experience of a lifetime

delivering top-notch music in an upscale destination. The weekend-long event is held at the Omnia Day Club Los Cabos, which is nestled on the Sea of Cortez

in the celebrity playground of Los Cabos, Mexico. The Life Luxe Jazz experience offers the ultimate getaway for discerning jazz aficionados by pairing an upscale international destination with luxury accommodations, fine hot cuisine, top-shelf libations, breathtaking golf, exhilarating spa, health, and wellness options, and much more, while showcasing some of the biggest names in entertainment.

The second annual Life Luxe Jazz Experience continues to build upon its success and heritage with Jazzing Around Los Cabos, a celebratory expansion of accomplishing its goal of sharing all the finest the destination has to offer, including daytime excursions and many concerts, including the Spirit of Jazz Gospel Brunch and Jazz Sunset Cruise. Confirmed guests, comedian-actor Mark Curry,

Gerald Albright, Alex Bumuman, Raul Madon, Incognito, Pieces of a Dream, Kirk Whalum, Average White Band, Donny McClurkin, Shalaya, Roy Ayers, Tom Brown, Ronnie Laws, and Ernest Quarles. Man, that's a hell of a lineup. For more information, visit the website at lifeluxjazz.com.

It's lifeluxjazz.com. Also, we'll be broadcasting Rolling Mark Unfiltered from Los Cabos Thursday and Friday. And so you definitely want to be in the house, folks. It is an amazing experience. I can't wait for it all to happen. So go to LifeLuxJazz.com to sign up today. I'll be back to your Roland Martin Unproven video.