#RolandMartinUnfiltered - #RolandMartinUnfiltered celebrates the life and legacy of civil rights icon Congressman John Lewis

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

7.20.20 #RolandMartinUnfiltered celebrates the life and legacy of civil rights icon Congressman John Lewis.During this special edition of #RMU we paying tribute to Rep. John Lewis. Joining us to honor the man known as the conscience of Congress"-Actor and Activist Harry Belafonte-Civil Rights Activists Xernona Clayton and James Lawson-Representatives Karen Bass of California, Al Green of Texas, James Clyburn of South Carolina and Senator Kamala Harris of California- Rev. William Barber-Janice Mathis of the National Council of Negro Women-Melanie Campbell of National Coalition on Black Civic ParticipationToday's panel features Dr. Greg Carr of Howard University; Adjoa Asamoah, a Impact and Political Strategist; Dr. Charles Becknell of the University of New Mexico; and Dr. Roslyn Satchel, Black Lives Matter, Los Angeles.Support #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛ https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered Partner: CeekBe the first to own the world's first 4D, 360 Audio Headphones and mobile VR Headset. Check it out on www.ceek.com and use the promo code RMVIP2020-#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting site covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Thank you. Martin! Today is Monday, July 20th, 2020. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, a two-hour tribute to the great Congressman John Lewis, civil rights icon, one of the most important figures in American history. He passed away at the age of 80 on Friday. Among the folks going to pay tribute to him, actor and activist Harry Belafonte, civil rights activist and good friends of his, Renona Clayton, and Reverend Dr. James Lawson. Members of the Congressional Black Caucus, including Karen Bass, the CBC chairwoman from California, Al Green of Texas, Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, and also Senator Kamala Harris of California. Reverend William J. Barber will also offer his condolences.

Janice Mathis of the National Council of Negro Women, who worked with him in Atlanta, along with Melody Campbell of the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation. They will also join us, and of course we have our expert panel, Dr. Greg Carr of Howard University, at Joah Asoma of Impact and Political Strategies, and Dr. Charles Becknell, the University of New Mexico. We also have Dr. Rosalind Satchel,

Black Lives Matter from Los Angeles. Folks, and we will also, you will hear, for the first time my full interview that I did with Congressman Lewis in 2018. Some amazing nuggets. He talks about Dr. King. He talks about what he wants the youth 50 years from now to think about in his life and legacy.

And for the first time, you will hear the first time he and Colin Kaepernick actually talked to one another. Trust me, you don't want to miss this tribute to John Lewis. It's time to bring the funk on Rolling Mark Unfiltered. Let's rolling. Best belief he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks.

He's rolling. It's on go, go, go, yo. It's rolling, marching, yeah, rolling with rolling now. Yeah, he's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's Rollin' Martin now. Now. Martin. Martin! For the past three days, the world has mourned the loss of Congressman John Lewis, who died on late Friday night at the age of 80.

So many people offering their condolences, folks who work with him, who spent time on the campaign with him and the civil rights movement with him. One of those folks joins us right now. He is the activist and actor Harry Belafonte. Harry, Mr. B, good to chat with you. We talked on Friday. I called you late about something else when I got word about the passing of John Lewis. And you said, I need some time to digest this. Mr. B. Harry Belafonte. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you now. Go right ahead. Okay. What was the question? When we talked on Friday, I called you about something else and then gave you the word about the passing of John Lewis. And you said, I need some time to digest this. Yep. It was a severe awakening to a moment in our history

when I was part of a world that could reflect on how blessed we were to have shared some time with John Lewis. I have had the privilege of working with many a great warrior during the great struggle of the Civil Rights Movement. People like Dr. King, people like W.E.B. Du Bois, people like Paul Robeson, and many others. Fannie Lou Hamer, Ella Baker. And in the center of all of that experience to have been able to stand side by side with John Lewis.

I don't think the journey that many of us enjoyed, the rewards of those of us who were part of that struggle would have been the same had John Lewis not been in our lives. I don't think that we could have had a greater reward than to share those moments with John Lewis. No one was quite like him. His strength, his humanity, his warmth, and his incredible genius was a gift of serving the cause of human rights and human survival. John was a handful of people who were a great inspiration,

like Dr. King and Ella Baker, Danny Lou Hamer, and many of us who gave of themselves so unselfishly in the struggle for human rights and human dignity. I am rewarded by the fact I was given the privilege to share that journey with John. He was indeed, as everyone has said, Andrew Young said, a man who exuded nothing but humility,

who was completely focused on the work, and it wasn't about ego. It was all about getting the job done. It was not just getting the job done. It was not just getting the job done, but how he got the job done. And he made a contribution that turned out to be one of the great rewards of being a part of that movement because of what he brought to the table.

His genius, his passion, his courage, and his strength in giving us insights on what we did in that struggle. It would not have been the same had there been no John Lewis. He was a remarkable human being. And I think many of the things that we achieved would never have happened had John not been in our lives. An intimate part of that struggle and how rewarding it turned out to be. He will be missed dearly, and I think especially by those who were touched by his humanity and his passion and his insight. I will think of him forever,

and I will be reminded how blessed we were that he was in our midst. And, of course, he was very thankful for you because you were responsible for his first trip to the motherland, to Africa, when you felt that he and Fannie Lou Hamer and others needed a respite from all of their hard work. Well, when I met John, he came to the early mobilizations of the civil rights movement, when young people from all over the country were being declared, committed to our struggle.

I think that John, not only his commitment, but the genius that he brought to the table, the wisdom that he brought, compassion that he brought to the table, the wisdom that he brought, compassion that he brought, and the pride that he gave us all an opportunity to participate in. He will be missed forever, but we'll all be rewarded for the fact that he existed, that he did for us what he did. Mr. B., always a pleasure talking with you. We certainly thank you for all that you've done

for our people as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Thank you very much, Carl. And you keep the strength, you keep the spirit. I will do, sir. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Host John Robert Lewis, the son of sharecroppers of Alabama who survived the brutal beating by police during a landmark 1965 march in Selma to become a towering figure of the civil rights movement and a 17-term congressman. He passed away Friday of pancreatic cancer, stage four

pancreatic cancer at the age of 80. His death came on the same day as we lost 95 year old civil rights leader, Reverend Cordy Tyndale, C.T. Vivian. The dual deaths of the civil rights icons come at a time when the country is in the midst of a global pandemic and racial upheaval. Again, Congressman Lewis served as the U.S. representative for Georgia's 5th Congressional District for more than three decades, beating out his very dear friend, Julian Bond, in an extremely contentious race. He was seen as the moral conscience of Congress because of his commitment to a nonviolent fight for civil rights. Joining us right now to celebrate him is the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, Karen Bass of California. Congresswoman Bass, welcome back to the show. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Roland. Thank you for doing this.

He, when he announced in December that he was suffering from pancreatic cancer, that was a blow to a number of people. Many of us are aware that it has a 95 percent fatality rate. He said he was going to fight this. Folks were praying for him, pulling through. But he didn't go into hiding. Folks were shocked when he made that last visit to the Selma Jubilee to commemorate Bloody Sunday, when he appeared, people were stunned to see that he came out there just three months after he announced that diagnosis. That's right. That's right. And remember now, just a couple of weeks ago, he was at Black Lives Matter Square taking what will be iconic photographs standing right on the street where it says Black Lives Matter. And I think for him to do that as his last public act was a statement.

I interpret it as a statement to the next generation. I interpreted it as him passing the baton. And and, you know, Mr. Lewis, I'll tell you, it's a weird day here today on the Hill. You know, we're voting right now, and I stepped away from the floor to take some votes. But all of us, you know, we're here kind of out of sorts. We had a moment of silence, and everybody has a heavy heart. And we will be honoring him this week on the floor, probably with speeches, maybe on Wednesday. The family is not going to make plans or arrangements until after C.T. Vivian is laid to rest. But at least I'm glad that the flags are still flying at half staff, as I hope they do every day until Mr. Lewis is laid to rest. We explained to people who don't really understand

what it was like to serve alongside, to travel with, to see how people just revered one of the most important figures in American history. Look, there are 435 House members, 100 United States senators. Everybody thinks that they're important. But Congressman John Lewis was in a completely different class than anyone else. Nobody thought or thinks that they were more important than John Lewis. Of 535, including the senators, I will tell you without question that he's the most respected member in the House of Representatives and in the Senate. And I think that one of the things about him that made you just love him so much is that he was such a humble man. I mean, to have had the history and to have impacted not just the nation, but the world in the way that he did. And you sit and you talk to him and you would never know that. You

know, people would always want to go up and talk to him, especially young people. I don't care what he was doing. He would always stop and talk to them. He would always give them time. And I think his humbleness is really what you are left with just in terms of knowing that he was a true giant. I happen to personally believe that a true giant is defined by their humbleness, not by their, you know, grandiosity. You talked about the flags being lowered. We're going to focus and play a video right now. This is the video of the flag being lowered to honor Congressman John Lewis. You've had folks on both sides of the aisle obviously express their thoughts and admiration.

I asked this earlier of Senator Kamala Harris, and I'll ask it of you, and this is not about playing politics, but I'll be perfectly honest. It bothered me at Selma 50, and all those years where Republicans would travel down to Selma on what I felt was a field trip

to stand with him, yet come right back to Washington, D.C., and vote against voting rights and voter suppression, to see Mitch McConnell release this statement. And I'm like, if you truly want to honor Congressman John Lewis, well, then you will bring that bill up to a vote on the floor that will restore Shelby v. Holden. So I said, folks, excuse me.

I'm not trying to hear all these accolades when the what that man almost gave his life for. They are standing in the way in 2020. Right now, right now, right now. That's why I've said if if you want to say something nice about John Lewis, instead of saying something nice, bring up the bill for a vote. That's what you should do. That is the way to honor him. And the idea now that we're facing an election in less than 120 days, and we're still dealing with this issue, but we're not just dealing with it from a party. We're dealing with it from the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court just ruled a couple of days ago undermining the people of Florida who voted to allow folks who had been incarcerated with felonies to vote. And the

Supreme Court just threw a wrench in it by saying, yeah, you can vote, but you have to pay any past fine you had. Now, you're coming out of prison. What kind of resources do you have to do that? Sometimes people owe back child support and they can't afford to pay that. And what on earth does that have to do with voting? The voters decided to open up voting to ex-offenders. The legislature then passed a law saying, OK, the people wanted this, but we're going to limit it by saying that you have to pay money. I mean, what did they used to call that back in the day? Poll tax. Martin, wasn't that a poll tax?

Poll tax. Exactly. Exactly right. And the Supreme Court just backed that up. It is. Last question for you. This is something that that Andrew Young said is that we certainly mourn. We certainly would miss his presence. We'll miss his hugs. But the reality is that he's physically gone, but he is still here because just like I think Dr. King, folks will be talking about John Lewis for a very, very, very long time. Absolutely. There's no question about that. No question. Congressman Karen, Congresswoman Karen Bass, chair of the CDC, we certainly appreciate it.

Thanks for taking time away to chat with us. Absolutely. All right, folks. As Congresswoman Bass said, the members are actually voting. And so we Congressman Jim Clyburn, who is the House whip, he will be coming back to join with us right now. Let's go to Congressman Al Green of Texas. Congressman Green, glad to have you on the show. First time you met John Lewis. When was it? What do you remember? Well, I'm not going to pretend that I remember the first time. I've been in his company many times, and I've always enjoyed it. He's a very pleasant person. It was here in Congress, and I have admired him from afar for many years, and then to have the opportunity to serve with him was quite a benefit to me. I have seen him up close and can say to you that what you see is what he is

at all of his private moments. I've never seen him when he was discombobulated to the extent that he resorted to scatology. He's always talked about nonviolent peaceful protests. He took seriously the words of Gandhi, be the change you seek. He did the sermon that he preached. He did what we would expect people to do who are approaching sainthood, did unto others as he was asking to do unto him. He was there to help people. Just a gentle soul who's going to be dealing with this because he got us all into good trouble.

When you talk about that good trouble, I mean, we all remember when he led that protest on the floor of the House when he sat down and other Democrats were shocked and stunned. And then they joined him and then people begin to stream this. Republicans went crazy. But that's when he said, forget the rules. Sometimes you have to break the rules for what's right. That's exactly right. As a matter of fact, a call came over our system that John Lewis was staging a sit-in on the House floor. And everybody perked up, and we rushed over. I was one of the many people to rush over and join him on the House floor. I remember when he said that he thought that it was appropriate to protest for comprehensive immigration reform.

So we sat in the middle of the street right outside the Capitol. We were arrested for obstructing traffic, I believe, and went to jail. But then I remember the time when he talked about the horrors of Sudan and how people were just being harmed. It was a genocide by some standards. And so we went over to the Sudanese embassy. I'm following his lead, I assure you. These were his leads. And I was honored to follow him.

We were arrested there, Sudanese embassy. And so we spent time together in jail, in the same cell. And we would talk about peaceful protests. I remember him explaining to me about the circumstance of the Edmund Pettus Bridge and how Jimmy Lee Jackson had been murdered by the police defending a family member and how that was a part of the spark that ignited that move to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge. He was the history. And his ability to recall these things is just phenomenal.

He would talk to you about who was seated next to him when something occurred. His recall was just amazing in terms of the history that was so important to him. Congressman Al Green, we certainly appreciate it, sir. Thank you so very much. Thank you. God bless you,, we certainly appreciate it, sir. Thank you so very much. Thank you. God bless you, dear brother. Thank you, sir. Folks, today on the floor of the House, an emotional reading of a resolution

in honor of Congressman John Lewis. Watch this. Madam Speaker, I offer a privileged resolution and ask for its immediate consideration. The clerk will report the resolution. House Resolution 1054, resolve that the House has heard with profound sorrow of the death of the Honorable John Lewis, a representative from the state of Georgia resolved that a committee of such members of the House as the Speaker may designate,

together with such members of the Senate as may be joined, be appointed to attend the funeral. Resolved that the Sergeant of Arms of the House be authorized and directed to take such steps as may be necessary for carrying out the provisions of these resolutions, and that the necessary expenses and connection therewith be paid out of applicable accounts of the House. Resolved, that the clerk communicate these resolutions to the Senate and transmit a copy thereof to the family of the deceased. Resolved that when the House adjourns today, it adjourn as a further mark of respect to the memory of the deceased. With that objection, the resolution is agreed to. Wow, an emotional reading there. In a moment, I'm going to play for you the moment of silence they took on the House floor, a clearly, clearly emotional speaker, Nancy Pelosi. Joining us right now is Reverend Dr. William Barber, of course, repairs of the breach and poor people's campaign. Reverend Barber,

John Lewis, we don't call him Reverend John Lewis, but you're talking about somebody who had deep abiding faith, not only in the Bible, not only in Christianity, but in the goodness of people to eventually do the right thing. Exactly. He was a trained theologian. I'm not sure he didn't preach a trial sermon. I thought I heard somewhere, read somewhere that he did, but he was prophetic. He was a prophet of sense, and which is why I think we must handle his life and handle how we memorialize him very carefully. John Lewis knew and believed that people could change. Now, he didn't believe it was easy. And one of the things I love about him is he did not speak a lesser truth in the hope of transformation. You know, sometimes we think if we compromise a lot, it'll make people change. John Lewis understood it's not through the compromising. It's through the courageous, loving, true telling that causes people to see the error of their ways.

And Roland, I was thinking about it. When John Lewis went to summer, he needed to be with the people. We often speak of people as lone actors. You know, he went there because there was organizing going on that had been going on for years. He was beaten on that bridge because he could have run faster than Ms. Brewington when she was knocked down. But he saw her, he covered her, and that caused him to get brutalized even the more. He was the only speaker that I know, I've not read all of the speeches from the Del Mar Colossian that mentions sharecroppers. He was the seeker that criticized Kennedy's deal,

even though he said some of it's good, but it's not enough. He was the one that really said, listen, if this deal doesn't protect sharecroppers who lose their farms and run off their farms because they tried to register to vote, and if it doesn't protect maids who make $5 a day in households that make $100,000 a year, it's not good enough. We need to do more. So he carried the poor with him to the March on Washington.

And in a very profound way, he was the one that they asked to change his speech, you know, Roland, because his love was the kind of love that knew love and truth have to go together. And that means even challenging your friends, even as you stand against your adversaries. I think part of the thing that still bothers me is that, and I talk about this with Dr. King that that we they offer up this whole view that that that MLK was just this meek figure, wanted everybody to get along. But the reality is these were radical revolutionaries. I think we've got to use that. In fact, James Foreman, his book, he was executive secretary of SNCC, is titled The Making

of Radical Revolutionaries. That's who John Lewis was. That's who the king was. That's who Fannie Lou Hamer was. They were radical revolutionaries. We have to remember that. We forget. We may honor them today, but some people may honor them, because some people it's false flattery and platitudes. mean, that's powerful language, Roland. His original draft, he wanted to say we're going to march through the South like Sherman

and with our own scorched earth policy until we completely destroy Jim Crow. He changed it to we're going to march through and break into pieces, Jim Crow. I mean, this, he, the radicalness of the speech that he gave on Washington, he said, we're tired of waiting. We want our freedom, and we want it now. He called everybody to get in the movement. He was willing to put his body and his life on the line, and it was not as an individual. One of the things that scares me right now is there's a scripture in the Bible, Roland, that says we must be careful of loving the tombs of the prophets and not loving the prophets while they are living. And then we ask this, though, Jesus said, and you ask this,

though, if you were back there then, you wouldn't have tried to kill them. But the very fact that you show yourself only loving their tombs shows you would have been right along with the crowd that would have killed them years ago. Today, you know, I can hardly tolerate folks saying that they love John Lewis and they're blocking the Voting Rights Act from being restored. I can hardly tolerate it when you say you love John Lewis but you won't pass health care for everyone and living wages, the things he fought for, not just recently, but he was talking about

in 63. He was talking about it in 64. He was talking about it in 65. And we have to be careful. I mean, black and white people who love this image, we got to be careful. Some people talk about, well, let's rename the bridge after John Lewis. But I believe that'll give a lot of people a pass to say that they'll do that, but they'll still keep voting suppression in place. If you rename the bridge after the people of Selma, then also at the same time pass the voting rights, a restoration of voting rights act.

Alabama, restore or pass the Affordable Care Act. Governor of Mississippi does that. I love, I love, I love John Lewis and he's all that. Well, stop suppressing the right to vote. You can't love people. Jesus said, you say you love me, but your heart is far from me. And we have to be very careful in this moment. Last for you, Reverend Barber. Anytime I would see Congressman Lewis, he would

always say the same thing. Brother Roland, that's how I was greeted. And he would always ask how you're doing. And people will watch him and they would, as he got older, they would see he was moving slower and slower and slower. But the fact that even last month, knowing he is dying, he wanted to come down just literally. I'm talking about across the street from my office to stand on that Black Lives Matter plaza. And he was constantly engaging with the next generation of John Lewis's. That's right. He didn't go into hiding. So, you know, this group.

Go ahead. He didn't go into hiding. You know, it's tough for me. I called him when we first heard the news because my brother had just died from pancreatic cancer. And I called him and he said, look, fight on. He said, keep staying in good trouble. Don't you give up on that poor people's campaign. I had a privilege of leading a prayer at the wedding of Congresswoman Lee. She took time in the middle of her wedding to have a special prayer for John Lewis in California.

And when I would see him several times, I actually have a video of me walking with him. I actually told him, I said, you made me put my cane down because I actually gave my cane away and walked beside him and held his arm. But while he was doing that, he was saying, keep up the fight.

Now think about this. John Lewis looks at the people, the young folk today and said, that's me. That's me at 23. That's me at 24. Right. And the fact that he would get up out of his bed and go there knowing that he had pancreatic cancer. You know, he challenged the rest of us.

I had to come out and go there. He was constantly challenging. And what I want to say to everybody that was going to, because a lot of attempts are going to be to laud him in his grave. And we should, Lord, we shouldn't forget. But please, for heaven's sake, for heaven's sake, let's don't just raise statues and memorials, statues and memorials. Let's pass. And for my Republican brothers and sisters, many who fought him, this is really a time for you to regain your humanity, to let this death move you. For Democrats who may have been wavering a little bit on being forced for business, the time to be as radical as John Lewis was on the Edmunds Pettus Bridge, as radical as John Lewis was in 1963 at the March on Washington, as radical as he was with those 40 arrests. Because you know what, Roland?

One of these days we're going to die. And one of these days, somebody's going to write history about us. And let it not be said that Martin and Rosa and John, in the face of death and evil, were more radical than we were. When most of those things, we don't even have to worry about that. For the most part, we don't have to worry. I mean, somebody could try. You know, we get death threats. But for the most part, we don't face half of what they face.

So there's no reason we should be compromising. There's no reason we should not be pushing an agenda. There's no reason we should not be pushing the third reconstruction and a reckoning and a wrath. And we should do it in memory of all of those like John Lewis and C.T. Vivian and others who stood in the face of death and lived out their truth and lived out their justice and lived in love even in the face of hate. Indeed, Reverend William Barber, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future

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Folks, this was the moment of silence today on the floor of the House for Congressman John Lewis. Madam Speaker, I ask that all members rise for a moment of silence in remembrance of the honorable John Robert Lewis. The chair asks that all those present in the chamber, as well as members and staff throughout the Capitol, and all who love John Lewis wherever you are, rise in a moment of silence in remembrance of the conscience of the Congress, the Honorable John Lewis. Thank you. For what purpose does the gentleman from Georgia seek further... Clearly emotional and teary-eyed Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has served a number of years in Congress alongside Congressman John Lewis.

My next guest knew him from way back in the day. who has served a number of years in Congress alongside Congressman John Lewis. My next guest knew him from way back in the day. She worked with the SCLC along with Coretta Scott King, Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Joining us now is Renona Clayton. Ms. Clayton, how are you doing? Oh, I'm doing wonderfully well. And Roland, I have been listening to what all the people are saying about John. And I've taken time to call some families who have younger children and said, I know you're watching television.

I hope you are. Well, it's on all day about John and C.T. Vivian. And I said, these are not PR stories. The people you are seeing on television lived those lives. I saw them. I'm the privileged one because I saw them every day. I said that C.T. must have felt like he had a mission, and he was on a mission. He was fast-paced.

He walked so fast all the time he'd come in the office and most people would say hello to everybody and then move on and check the messages ct would walk through the door speak to everybody in one group and boom down the hall he'd go to his office always fast paced you'd have to catch him and give him his messages. And we used to say, you know, I think that this man is constantly waiting for the next moment, the next moment, for the next movement, for the next, you know. He just was fast-paced. He didn't waste his time.

And I put words in his mouth. I said, he's saying, do as much as you can, as often as you can and don't sit on your can. I don't think he added that, but I did. But he did not waste time. And so what people are seeing now on television was the real CT who really had a mission and went for it. Now, John Lewis and I were more personal friends. I don't know if you know that I put him and his wife together over both of their objections, but I didn't care. I wanted them together because I just thought they deserved each other. Lillian, who was my very best friend, Lillian was quite an intellect.

She traveled abroad, studied abroad, read everything there was, and quite knowledgeable about many, many subjects. John didn't quite have that same exposure of education because he was in Alabama with segregated environment and all this, but they both had a commitment. John Lewis was easy to see that he had this commitment from a young boy. He was determined, I think, to make a change in our society. He wanted to right the wrongs.

I met his family, and his mother, when John asked her, why do they have these two fountains in the stores? And her answer was this, John, that's the way it is. Don't get in trouble. Don't get in trouble. Just take it as is. Don't get in trouble. And that's how he started that.

Well, if it's good trouble, it's okay. But John said he's going to help change that. Martin Luther King, he was just absolutely transformed into doing the right thing, doing the good things, doing the changeable things. Because he had a spirit about him that if you changed a man's heart, you can also change his behavior. And that's the way he practiced his life. And that was the rehearsal for the biggest life he's going to live up in heaven, I think. I liked the life that John lived because he was never a pretentious person. What you saw is expression. expression is what you really got. And I cried when he came home from getting the bad news from his doctor.

He said, I want to go home. And he came home to Atlanta. And then I was called in to see if I wanted to see him, and I did. And we had a moment together, and he thanked me for our many, many years of friendship and love. And then, of course, when he did pass away, I felt the tears coming. And then I finally got a hold of myself that I'm the blessed one. I got a chance to see both these men who died on the same day,

and now they're going to heaven together. And so you see a pretty picture. And I have not cried. I've been busy, of doing interviews talking about them and and it's not a problem for me and I'm sorry that I couldn't give you all the time you wanted but I've been doing so many interviews that I've you know made another commitment but um I'd love to tell the story and I've told these young people that you know God gave each of us the supreme gift, which was life. And when someone gives you something, you want to return the favor.

And so I said that what we can do for God to return this wonderful favor is to live a good life. John did that. He led and lived a good life. Loved everybody. I mean, everybody. It would take John so long to get any place because he stopped to say hello. And he stopped to take pictures and he stopped to chat with people. And it was a joy to be around him. So I wanted the youngsters to know that we're not seeing public relations on these screens. This is the man's real life. Shadona Clayton, it's always great talking with you.

You always have great stories. And you said you didn't care that they didn't want to get together. You said, I'm going to make it happen. Yeah, right. I set up everything. But guess what? They stayed together 44 years. Indeed.

So it worked. I had that sixth sense that this is going to be the union that will last. And it did. So, you see, anybody looking for help, call me. Well, we're going to make you the next host of the Love Connection. Yeah, right. Now, I didn't charge for that, but I'm charging for that. I need money now. Ms. Clayton, we appreciate it. Always a good pleasure.

And I hope to see you soon when I go through Atlanta. All right. Thank you. All right. Thanks a bunch. Folks, Elijah Jacob Mears put this video out on Twitter. And it's a 20-second video. But I just think it just spoke so profoundly about John Lewis. Watch this. Be kind. Be hopeful, be optimistic,

never get down. It's all going to be okay. All going to be all right. We're one people. We're one family. We all live in the same house, not just American house, but the world house. I wish you well. Be kind, be hopeful. Melanie Campbell, National Coalition on Black Civic Participation, spent time obviously in Atlanta working alongside many of these greats, including Reverend C.T. Vivian and Congressman John Lewis. Melanie, just your initial thoughts about these two amazing figures both passing away on the same day. It took my breath away for a minute. And I just want to stop and thank you for how you lifting up Dr. Vivian and Congressman Lewis.

I was blessed to spend a lot of years in Atlanta. I went to school there. And so the civil rights leaders and political leaders as a student, it just became the, my past time was working on campaigns. I can remember going to Selma, Alabama every year to deal with the reenactment of the Selma to Montgomery March and all the activities that we were involved in, working at the King Center and meeting Mrs. Lowry and Dr. Lowry. So Atlanta was so rich with civil rights leaders and political leaders, you know, it was like light posts. It was everywhere.

So you thought everybody had that experience. And I was blessed to—that's where I—that's where I found my passion for what I do now, starting out with doing voter registration. But I remember working on Congressman Lewis's congressional race in 1986. And that's when I got a chance to know him and the man he was. He was just so kind to everybody and so friendly. And you knew this great icon of what he had done in the civil rights movement of the 60s, but just to be able to be in his presence. And he always was so friendly.

That's what I personally remember about him. And just being able to, over the years, you know, I moved here to Washington, D.C., and just to be able to be around him, to see him. You had an opportunity to lift him up, you know, several years ago. And, Roland, if you remember with Dr. Vivian, you moderated that conversation. You hosted that Spirit Awards when we had that honor to Dr. Vivian. And I don't know if you remember him at 91 years old jumping up on the stage like it was nothing, right? Indeed. indeed. In fact, I know I'm glad you reminded me of that because we should have that audio, that video. So I'm going to try to find that so we can play

some of that. I want you to hold one second. I want you to hold one second, one second, because the House members are voting and they're running back and forth. So on the line right now is Congressman Jim Clyburn, who is the House whip. Congressman Clyburn, welcome back to the show. OK. All right. So I had here Clyburn is back. But Melanie, go right ahead. Once he comes online, we'll go to him. The last thing I really wanted to say was that we were on that bridge with him in Selma in March, March 1st. And to be able to see him come to Selma one more time was a privilege, you know, a bittersweet moment. But just to see him, he never stopped. He never stopped. And then

to be able to see, I wasn't there, but to see that he went to Black Lives Matteraza the way he did. And always, and what I learned from Congressman Lewis and Dr. Vivian and all those who touched me and poured into me was that it just wasn't about you. It was about the people. Make sure, and the power of coalition and the power of just being a servant leader and doing your part in the dash. What are you going to look, when people talk about you, what are they going to say about your dash? Right?

And that's what I, and I will forever remember, that's why I'm wearing my Power to Sister Vote t-shirt in honor of him when I was thinking, what am I going to put on the vote? I had to put on the vote. And I'm with you, Roland. I saw something you posted earlier.

If Mitch McConnell believes that he really wants to lift up Congressman Lewis, then go ahead and pass that bill. There's nothing else he could do other than that. And if he doesn't, we have to remember in November. And then if those of us who say that we want to lift up all that Congressman Lewis did and C.T. Vivian and all those before him and hers that we've lost. We've got to vote like our lives depend on it because they do. Absolutely. Melanie Campbell,

we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Thank you. Thank you, Roland. All right, folks, let's go back to Capitol Hill. We're joined now by the House Whip, Jim Clyburn of South Carolina. Congressman Clyburn, welcome back to the show. Thank you very much for having me, my man. How's everything going? All good, sir.

It has been, I've heard from different people, they said it has been an extremely solemn day on Capitol Hill. It has been, and I suspect that it probably should be that way. John was so well-loved, and, you know, I was telling someone that as long as I've known John, we first met back in 1960 and we became fast friends. And over the years, his spouse, he met and married within the movement.

Same thing with me. They were both librarians, my wife and his, and they became fast friends. And John, if you remember when he was ousted from SNCC, John went on to become chair to the director of the Southern Voter Education Project, the Southern Regional Voter Education Project. And I chaired the Charleston, South Carolina Voter Education Project. And I chaired the Charleston, South

Carolina Voter Education Project. And so we had that relationship. Then we came up here to serve in the Congress together for almost 27 years. We had a very close personal relationship, and we talked often out of the airshot of both our chiefs. Sometimes just the two of us sitting on the floor sharing experiences, remembering what it was like back in the 1960s, remembering what it was like when SNCC got taken away from us. And John was so afraid that Black Lives Matter could very well get co-opted by headlines as it happened to us. So when these refrained, defund the police came out, John and I both thought that this was the kind of headline that could undercut the tremendous progress that was being made with Black Lives Matter. So both of us spoke out forcefully against that. You know, I've run for all kinds of leadership positions within our caucus. I've been chair of the Congressional Black Caucus.

I've been vice chair of the Democratic Caucus, chair of the Democratic Caucus, assistant Democratic leader, and now I'm equipped for the second time. I never asked John to nominate me or to second my nomination. I always ran with his support, always discussed my candidacy with him, but I never wanted him to take sides in our caucus. Everybody, like John, he was our conscience.

And I said to him that I thought it would jeopardize that position if he were to nominate me, especially when I'm running against somebody. Now, a few times I was elected unanimously, but I have had a contest before. I didn't want him to be registered as being for one person against another. So I never asked him to nominate me, never asked him to second the nomination, and that's why I didn't do it. John was one of a kind. We're going to miss him a whole lot, and I want us to remember him,

not just with words, but with deeds. And I'm calling upon the House and the Senate to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act of 1965. It's been gutted. The Shelby v. Holder case decided seven years ago, took away the efficacy of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. We got that Voting Rights Act in 1965 because of John Lewis and many others on that Edmund Pettus Bridge. John was beaten to within the inch of his life. And we got the Voting Rights Act out of that. Now, after the Supreme Court gutted it, they told us in the decision what we needed to do in order for the court to consider it to be constitutional. We have done that. We have passed the law based upon the Supreme Court decision, and it was a bipartisan bill. John Lewis leading it in the House and Jim Sensenbrenner, a Republican, leading it on the Republican side. And we've sent that bill over to the Senate. Lewis Voter Project Voting Rights Act of 2020.

I want to talk about you talk about how folks felt about Congressman Lewis. And it was difficult when people had to push or prod him or oppose him. You might remember when President Barack Obama had made some nominations to the federal bench and the Georgia delegation. They simply felt they could not stand by and watch one of those judges be on the federal bench for life who supported voter I. And I never forget, Congressman David Scott, Congressman Hank Johnson and others pushed Congressman Lewis to come out against it. And he was paying to do that because President Barack Obama had called Reverend Dr. First of all, had called Congressman John Lewis and also had called. Why is the name escaping me, y'all?

Passed away in March. I called a reverend and said. Joe Lyra. Joe Lyra. My goodness. I'm like, the brain just froze. I knew the man. And Lyra's the one who told me the story.

And so, and he called them and they said, well, you know, we won't speak out against it. But these members said point blank, all right, no, John, you can't be quiet. You got to speak out. And he was not happy. He was not happy having to give a news conference. And they were paying to do it, but they just simply said, like, we love you and respect you. And then one of the members said at the news conference, let's just say he had a few choice words for them making him do that. But that was sort of people did not want to have to grapple with him. But they said in this case, no, we got to do this. That's quite true. John really had so much admiration and respect for President Obama.

And since Obama made that nomination, he did not want to come out against it. I talked to him about that. But the Georgia delegation felt there needed to be united on that. That is, the blacks in the delegation. And so he did agree to it. I remember it very well. And it was tough for him. But that's the way John was. He had internalized nonviolence. A lot of us had adopted it. I'm one of those people who thought it was a good tactic. I never saw nonviolence as a way of life. John did. And that's what set him apart from the rest of us. He was a genuine,

nonviolent person who was against a war of any kind. And so John was really one of a kind. Do we have to ask you about this moment? It'll be my last question here. That moment when he went to the floor to lead this sit-in, a lot of Democrats who were scared because people were like, hey, we got rules. I'm going to play this video. Then about 50 seconds and we'll come right back. Now is the time for us to find a way to dramatize it, to make it real.

We have to occupy the floor of the House until there's action. Rise up, Democrats. Rise up, Americans. This cannot stand. We will occupy this floor. We will no longer be denied a right to vote. I gentleman's time has expired. Pursuant to clause 12 per N.A. of rule one, the chair declares the House recess for the hour. My friend, my brother for yielding.

Congressman, Congressman Clyde Brown, there were a lot of Democrats. You saw some of the looks on their faces like, did he just sit down on the floor? Yeah. Well, you know, John Lawson, I give John Lawson a lot of credit for that. John and a few others

thought that there was one way we ought to dramatize, as John Lewis would say, exactly what was going on denying us the right to vote on gun legislation. You know what was happening in these schools.

It was just horrible. And all we were asking is to bring the bill to the floor, and the speaker would not bring it to the floor. And so we decided to sit down on the floor, and we stayed there. That night, I think, really ushered in a new attitude on the part of us Democrats. I think it's what laid the foundation for us going out and winning the majority because it unified everybody. We started getting phone calls, getting texts from people all up and down the East Coast, People from Philadelphia, up in Delaware, people from New York and Richmond. We got a bunch of phone calls from Richmond. People got in their automobiles and said,

keep the flow, keep the flow, we are on our way. And people came in. And that night when we finally decided to leave the floor, we went down the steps of the Capitol, went out on the lawn, and there were hundreds, maybe thousands of people out there. And you probably saw that iconic photograph

of Nancy Pelosi on John's left, I was on John's right, hosting them up on some kind of a platform so he could address that crowd. They come from everywhere. And so they needed to hear from John. That was a great night. That's the night that I think we got the unity that was necessary for us to be successful in the 2018 elections. I will credit that night with giving us the majority in the House. He indeed was an absolute iconic figure, one of the greatest Americans in this nation's history. And your friend for 60 years, Congressman

Jim Clyburn. We certainly appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us. Thank you very much for having me. All right, folks, we talk about, again, the impact of a Congressman John Lewis on so many people. You really do have to think back to the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Think back to that period where that was young folks who were in SNCC. They met at Shaw University in 1960. They met there where they began to plan. Ella Baker was one of the folks who was helping,

advising them as well. And out of that, if you think about most of the most important actions that took place between 1960 and 1968, really it was about SNCC and how those young folks were able to make a difference when it came to leadership. Those things were extremely important. Right now folks I want to pull in Janice Mathis, first off. National Council of Negro Women, she spent a significant number of years in Atlanta with Rainbow Push. Janice, you came across on many occasions Reverend C.T. Vivian as well as Congressman John Lewis. Certainly working for Reverend Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition, there was a connection between them. Those young men who led that movement were forever changed by it, and there was a kind of fraternity of them. They would gather in Tennessee, in Memphis, you know,

on April the 4th. They would gather on Black History Month, various occasions, and you could just tell that they were united by a common purpose and a common cause. So I was fortunate to know both those gentlemen and to admire and respect them both and really to appreciate what they were willing to do for a young sister who had it in her heart to try to make a difference. And on that particular point, although you had a civil rights movement that was very patriarchal, those two individuals understood the vital importance of black women. I've seen numerous sisters talk about who were born after the civil rights movement, who talked about the mentoring and the counseling and the words of wisdom that they received from both Reverend C.T. Vivian as well as John Lewis. And, you know, it wasn't so much what they said because, you know, John didn't say a whole lot, but it was the way they conducted themselves. I remember that we were planning this march to reauthorize the Voting

Rights Act. That was back in 2006 in Atlanta, keep the vote alive. And I was nervous and scared. And one by one, John said early on, I'll be there. Count on me. What do you need me to do? It was that kind of support. And then even as a young person, I think Congressman Lewis will always stand for the proposition that young people ought to be involved. After all, he was the youngest speaker on that platform in 1963 at the March on Washington. And it wasn't a coincidence because beneath the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, they gathered before they spoke, and there was some disagreement about who was speaking, how long. And Dorothy Haidt, who was the president of the National Council of Negro Women at that time, urged the fellas to let John Lewis speak. And he tells that story,

and she did too, that she gave up her spot on the podium so that he, a young, very young person, could have a word and some words to say. So it's all about that mutuality. And I heard Melanie say, number one, two lessons. You can't be scared. And you got to know that it's not about you. It's about the people. I thought about, at first I felt sad and mad because John Lewis fought for

voting rights for 55 years. And here we are mourning him and celebrating him and making tributes to him. And it's not as bad as it was in 1965, but we are still fighting over the right to vote. But then I consol myself by saying people don't try to steal something that is not valuable. So the fact that we're still fighting for the right, unfettered right to vote tells me that it must be something that is very valuable. Janice Mathis, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you for having me, Roland. Thank you for what you do. I don't know what we would do if you weren't doing this. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Folks, joining us right now is LaTosha Brown.

She's the co-founder of Black Voters Matter. I also want to bring in my panel. Dr. Greg Carr is the chair of the Department of Afro-American Studies, Howard University. And I'll also bring up my other two panelists in just a moment. LaTosha, the connection between then and now, the connection between young and old, we always hear folks talk about the passing of the baton, and a lot of young folks say, I wish the previous generation would just get out of the way and just let us do what we do. John Lewis had no issue with the next generation stepping up,

but he also made it clear that he was still in the fight, that both things can happen at one time. That's right. We shall not, we shall not be moved. We shall not, we shall not be moved just like a tree that's planted by the waters. We shall not be moved. You know, I wanted to start in that spirit because I do think more than anything,

what I gathered from him and answering your question, Roland, is, and I say this often, around how deeply spiritual he was, that he did not run away from being an Alabama Southern country boy. He wore it. He wore it as a badge of honor. You know, and I think that what's really interesting, even as I was listening to Representative Clyburn, you know, what was interesting about John Lewis is that he wasn't beyond transforming and even admitting when he was wrong. You know, I remember early on when some may not know early on in the Obama campaign,

he was actually supporting Hillary Clinton. I mean, part of it is he had a longstanding relationship with them. They were friends of his. He had worked with them and had worked with Bill Clinton over the years. But in that process, he saw the moment, the moment that our community was in, the moment of where it was this moment to put this African-American male in office. And he sees that moment. And even though just like they were talking about the other decisions, you know, oftentimes I know there are elected officials that are so stuck in their way of being that they can't transform.

They can't transform or see beyond themselves. One of the things I think was actually really powerful and phenomenal about him, particularly as you're talking about young people, is that he was always able to actually see the value in young folk, even if it challenged some of what he believed at the time. You know, I think a case in point, as we heard Representative Clyburn say that early on, there were some concerns around how the messaging, how that would land publicly. But one of the last things that he did publicly is he went out to the Black Lives Matter plaza and stood out there. If that ain't a message of solidarity, if that ain't a message of affirming

young folks that are with you, I'm standing in solidarity with you. I support you. There are other black officials that won't do that right now, that are here and won't do that right now. And so I am, I'm saying that because I think there's something really profound about his belief in the power of redemption, the power of transformation. He did believe that everybody, he believed that everybody was worthy of redemption. I don't even, Roland, I don't even know where I am on that, right? A part of me says, I want to believe that, but a part of me like, no, no, right? But ultimately, in terms of the value of redemption, he fundamentally believed in that.

And so I think, you know, often year after year when Selma, when I was living in Selma, we would bring him. He would come year after year to Selma for the Selma Montgomery March. And oftentimes he would actually speak to young folks. And there were a couple of things if I would think about when I think about him. One was how humble his spirit. He always had this very assertive, because you can be assertive and confident and still have a level of humility, right? And so he had this humble spirit around humility. The second thing is, which I just think is profound around his belief in love. He really fundamentally believed in love. And he believed in this principle of love in a different kind of way, not just like love to make you feel good.

He believed that love could actually transform, could be transformational, right? And so, and it's such a pillar of what I believe myself. And the third thing is that he was a statesman. You know, we don't have that many of them right now, right? And so even, I mean, well, particularly in the White House, when we look at the upper levels, they're not statesmen at all. This was a statesman that literally we see as transformation from a Southern boy

who he was standing in the cotton fields of Alabama to transform himself to become a young activist, to literally transform himself to become an organizer around getting people registered to vote and then become a young activist, to literally transform himself to become an organizer around getting people registered to vote and then become a congressman, right, who wound up being a leader of not just his district, but of the world. In that, you know, there's something that you said, Roland, the other day that I thought was really powerful. It was something that I often say, I often say that we give a lot of credence to the founders of America, right? When, in fact, when I think about John Lewis, he was one of the founders, original founders in this country, of democracy.

The founders of America were not the founders of democracy. The founders of America had ideas about democracy, right? They had an ideology. They had some framework around that. But clearly, they didn't believe in democracy when women, they didn't believe that women should vote. Matter of fact, they didn't even believe that men at the time,

they didn't make provisions that white men who didn't own land could vote. And certainly, black folks were not even considered human beings at the time. So they were severely deficient in their understanding, their belief in democracy. But here comes along a generation of folks like Dr. King and Reverend Lowry and C.T. Vivian and John Lewis and Diane Nash and Amelia Boynton and Marie Foster that fundamentally put America to

the test. Is democracy going to be just on paper or is it going to be real? And so part of his legacy is really the formation of my own organization. Black Voters Matter exists in part because of John Lewis, that the work that he did and the work that he helped to lead, that was literally the foundation of the work that caused Cliff and I to found the organization. We knew that that work had to continue. And then we knew that we had a responsibility that it was our generation's time to step up and to stand in that space and to really be able to move out, move forward and move our community forward. And this conversation around democracy moved that forward. You were there when John Lewis shocked everybody and showed up in Selma. This is a video from your Twitter page. Let's go right to it. We cannot give up now. We cannot give in. We must keep the faith, keep our eyes on the prize.

We must go out and vote like we never, ever voted before. Some people gave more than a little blood. Some gave their very lives. So to each and every one of you, especially you young people, the fraternities and sororities, you look good. You look colorful. Go out there. Speak up. Speak out. Get in the way. Get in good trouble. Good trouble.

Get in good trouble and help redeem the soul of America. Amen. And each and every one of you. I'm not going to give up. No. I'm not going to give in. No. I'm going to continue to fight. We. I'm not going to give in. No. I'm going to continue to fight.

We need your prayers now more than ever before. Let's do it. We can do it. Yay, Charles. Selma is a different place. America is a different place. But we can make it much better. We must use the vote as a nonviolent instrument or tool to redeem the soul.

We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. We can make it much better. We must use the vote as a nonviolent instrument or tool

to redeem the soul of America. Thank you very much. Good to see you. And of course, when we were there for Selma 50, you also happened to be in a real good spot. You're standing behind Obama and John Lewis and you were ear hustling. I was. Y'all watch this.

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That's right. And as you notice, it was I was ear hustling. I had this my phone and the battery is about to go dead at any moment. I was like, I got to capture this moment because he was having a private moment and sharing what's interesting is that spot is almost the same exact spot that the other video is in from from five years later. And what was interesting, I'll just say the first video and the second. And what was interesting is when we slowed down and he was actually sharing this private moment with Obama, you know, he started out very slow, started out very soft. You know, you can tell he was almost in some ways reliving. I just want people to understand what happened. Here it is on the 50th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act in the

Montgomery March. He had the opportunity to to walk with civil rights activists and the first African-American president at the spot in which he was beaten almost i mean beating beaten and really this obama would not been president had been president had it not been him for him like is that not like just a profound moment and i am so grateful that i had the opportunity melanie campbell melanie campbell and cornell brooks we all of us that have this opportunity to share that particular moment. And then, and I remember even myself in that moment, I was actually in awe. I was in awe of just what was happening.

Here we are in the bridge at this spot and he's sharing this moment and he's seeing the fruits of his labor. And then five years later, you know, what's interesting about what happened this year when he came up to, when he came on the, it was when he came to the part of the bridge.

We didn't know he was coming. We had actually marched and we were we were moving forward, marching across the bridge. And then it was just like Moses had part of the Red Sea that all of a sudden they had parked on the other side of the bridge. Because, as you all know, he was sick and he walked up and when he walked the crowd just parted it's like they parted um stacy abrams had helped him to get up on this they had a little footstool for him and so he was up there as y'all saw um speaking with power and fire this man was battling cancer he could have been in his home resting resting, building up his strength, but he thought it was so important that he be there at that day, in that moment, to give that message to us. And I remember being so moved and it's interesting because I've walked across that bridge, feels like a million times,

but I remember that moment being so moved and in awe of him. I'm saying, wait a minute, here's a man that he ain't got to prove nothing to nobody. He could be at home taking care of himself and his health, but he is so committed to this fight, right, that he is here in this moment. And so even for me, I'm like, who am I to be tired? It was almost like even at that moment, I was recommitted to the cause.

And so I think that I hope that in this sharing of the legacy of John Lewis, and I also want to share my experience with C.T. Vivian, who also died on the same day, which I thought that in itself, just, you know, they were very close and they were lieutenants, you know, in this movement that both of them have poured so much into our community,

and they never stopped fighting, y'all. Not until they never stopped fighting. Those, this picture right here, Roland, those are the founders, are part of the group of the founders of American democracy. It was not Washington and Jefferson. It was our folks who literally fought for the right to vote to make democracy real. In that space, you know, what I think is important in this moment that we really recognize is that it ain't over. And I think he knew that. I know he knew that. He said it. And so the question is, when we are called, right, because he was real clear that when he got the call and he said, Lord, send me, and he showed up, I think the thing about him is he always showed up.

And so the question now for us is, are we going to show up, right, and show up in remarkable ways that we're actually taking this movement to the next level? And then so that the generation behind us can take it to the next level. And so I just think it's really important that part of his legacy is that we rededicate and recommit ourselves to this work. Latasha Brown, co-founder of Black Voters Banner. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Roland. And thank you for your work. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Folks, Mark Thompson, of course, would make it plain, actually shot, this was a couple of years ago, a reenactment of Congressman John Lewis walking him through what actually happened on Bloody Sunday. Here is that discussion.

How does it feel when you come out here? Do you still feel, you know, some of the same things your body felt 54 years ago? Well, when I walk across this bridge, I go back to 1965 and remember well how I was to walk from Brown Chapel Church on that Sunday, March 7, 1965. As a matter of fact, when we got near where those buses are, there was a group of white citizens, all men, and they just stood and looked at us. But you can see the sense of anger. And if the officers hadn't been standing there, I don't know what would have happened to us. But we just kept walking with dignity and with pride.

We were walking on the sidewalk, orderly, peaceful. No one saying a word until we got much further up the bridge. Jose William and I started talking softly. And there was some concern about what was going to happen to the women and the children in the line of march. We thought we would be arrested in jail. We didn't have any idea that we would be beaten. And you were prepared to go to jail. That wasn't unusual, but to be beaten. No, we were prepared to go to jail.

We were prepared to be arrested. But we didn't know. We didn't have any concern that we would be beaten by the state troopers. It's not any way to forget that day. And there's no way we to forget that day. And there's no way we can forget you. Well. Thank you for everything.

Well, I just tried to help out. And that's what I'm still trying to do, to help out. And that's the beauty because you're humble that way. But if it hadn't been for you, all these women of Congress, all these people of color that we're seeing, that's because of what happened here. Well, I'm gratified and thankful. I feel more than lucky. that's because of what happened here. Well, I'm gratified and thankful.

I feel more than lucky. I feel very blessed that we have seen unbelievable changes around the South in particular, but around America. To see more women, young women, more people of color, not just African American, but Hispanic, Asian American, two Native American women in the Congress for the first time in the history of the country. It says something. Yeah, yeah.

Love you, man. I love you too, brother. Good to see you, man. Good to see you. Always a pleasure to see you. John Lewis, ladies and gentlemen. Our hero. Thank you.

Yes, indeed. Yeah, thank you, thank you. Joining us right now, Dr. Greg Carr, Chair, Department of Afro-American Studies, Howard University. Dr. Charles Becknell, Department of Africana Studies, University of New Mexico. Adjoa B. Asamoah, Impact and Political Strategies. And Dr. Rosalind Satchel, Black Lives Matter LA. Greg, I want to start with you.

We have seen a whole weekend of all of these different tributes, all these different folks paying their respects. Just your assessment, and are we really capturing the essence, or do you think folks are understanding the true essence of John Lewis? Well, I think, thank you, Roland, for involving me in this conversation, especially with my friends on the panel today. Especially this is a power. You got turbocharged. You got some real revolutionaries on this squad right here, brother. I would say no, of course not, because America likes to freeze John Lewis on that bridge. And they like to freeze C.T. Vivian on those steps and some are getting hit in the mouth by Jim Clark.

You know, C.T. Vivian wrote the first assessment of that period in 1970. This is his book right here, Black Power and the American Myth. And in it, C.T. Vivian says, people do not choose rebellion. It is forced upon them. Revolution is always an act of self-defense. And when we see John Lewis, you know, as earlier I was in a conversation with some of his comrades, you mentioned SNCC earlier, Cortland Cox, Frank Smith, Dori Ladner, Tim Jenkins, all his SNCC comrades. And one of the things they talked about was SNCC was really the shock troops of that movement. They descended into places and worked to help people utilize their local power. You know, that's problematic in America. And so it gets narrated as individuals and heroes. And John Lewis is nothing if not a hero. C.T. Bibby is nothing if not a hero, but we often miss the fact that it's collective work. You know, it's very

interesting to hear Representative Clyburn talk about SNCC being taken away from us. Well, really what he's referring to is a moment when SNCC moved past the idea of direct action and voter registration to the idea that perhaps the government was not going to fulfill the vision that they had, which is empowering everyone in the community. And I'll wrap up because I really want to hear from other panelists. But when I think of John Lewis, I think about the collective. The collective wrote that speech that he gave at the March on Washington. The collective had to radically edit when A. Philip Randolph came and said, please, you all do something different. It was the collective that did that. And so when we see them come across that Edmund Pettus Bridge, remember, C.T. Vivian says,

I was at home that day. Hosea Williams said, go across that bridge. And John Lewis was the only member of SNCC there because SNCC had actually voted not to participate. But once he did that, once he did that with his unquestioned courage, then everybody had to come together. John Lewis did have that ability. And I think there are many other things we could talk about.

But I think we have to think about the fact that this forum allows us to celebrate these new ancestors who may transition on the same day at the same time that we can reflect on what their lives mean as a result of them being representative of much larger forces and movements. Dr. Rosalind Satchel, I said it earlier. You look at James Forman's book, The Making of Radical Revolutionaries, and the reality is that I think, and I've always said this,

America loves the word revolutionary when describing those white men who battle England. But when you start putting the revolutionary title when it comes to black skin, folk look a little different. And I think we as African-Americans have to not fall for what I call the civil rights mascots as to how America presents Dr. King or John Lewis or C.T. Vivian. These were black revolutionaries, black radical revolutionaries who were not who were trying to change systems in this country. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad.

Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding

of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working

and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. And this is the most important part, Roland. It's hilarious to hear the outright hypocrisy coming from not only the White House, but the Republican members of Congress that opposed everything that John Lewis did. It is amazing that this revisionist history that they are trying to sell the public does not account for the fact that John Lewis and C.T. Vivian were called disruptors. They were called interlopers. They were called carpet baggers. Public opinion was against them. They were criticized not only by the powers that be,

but also by their own community. So Black Lives Matter is at a place now where we recognize our place in the continuum of radical revolutionary democracy in this country we are a part of the legacy of John Lewis whether representative Clyburn sees it or not we are indeed a part of the legacy of C.T. Vivian who hired me in 2003 to be the executive director at the National Center for Human Rights Education. This man in his 70s was still doing the work and was still open to learning with and from young people. I pray Representative Clyburn does too, because when we say defund the police and reimagine public safety, we are in fact saying the same thing that so many of our ancestors said before us, and that is simply that freedom is not free and we are willing to pay the cost. Sure, defund the police might very well upset the police

unions around the country. We don't care. We don't represent them. We are here to represent the people in our communities, the people who John Lewis represented as being a young man of rural upbringing in southern United States. Please, I'm from the South. I'm real clear that nonviolence was a strategy, y'all. It was a strategy. Sure, many of our elders in their older years, in their latter years, they took it on as a part of who they were. And we acknowledge that.

We admire that. But we also look at their lives as young people when they were young, just like we are. And, you know, I ain't exactly the youngest chicken in the bunch, but I am young enough to recognize that we have still more to learn. We don't need to kowtow to the powers that be. We don't need to make sure that the police unions don't get offended so that they don't contribute to our political campaigns. That's not our objective. Let me-

The burn is for the people. Charles Becknell, here's the deal. The reality is that if you actually study the movement, again, 1959, Roy Wilkins, head of the NAACP, calls Dr. King a radical. Then Dr. King, as he began to go within the movement, SNCC folks used to derisively call him DeLard. Folks, when you folks get to see my interview with John Lewis a little bit later, he actually talks about that. So the reality is we've always had the dynamic and that does what comes to black folks. You always have had a dynamic of young pushing and prodding and and being and not just walking up to the line, but crossing the line. And then you have others who are saying, no, pull back. And so that's why initially when Congressman Clyburn made his comments about defund the

police, I took it for exactly what it was. An older politician looking at things from a political position, whereas external groups, their job was to know, push as hard and as far as they can, which is exactly what SNCC did to SCLC, which is why Ella Baker did not want SNCC to be a wing of the SCLC. She wanted it to be a separate institution. Exactly. Charles? Yeah, go ahead. The battle has to be waged on all fronts. We, as people who have a history of being oppressed,

have always been forced to engage in a zero-sum game, one strategy over the other strategy. And when I think about the life of John Lewis, you know, he represented to me what it means to be young, what it means to be radical, what it means to be militant. He was somebody I could connect with. He was somebody that was willing to push the envelope. And, you know, his power didn't come from only his experience, but his power came from his religious upbringing. He was serious about that religious side of his life, and that's what fundamentally led him to sacrifice. He was a Baptist preacher as a pastor myself. I can relate to that. His work was guided and inspired and sustained by God, and I think that's what allowed him to persevere in his radical militant stance, where he was nearly beaten to death at a Montgomery bus station while he endured near

death on a bridge in Selma on Bloody Sunday. You know, and we when we think about John Lewis, we cannot disconnect him from the radical black past of David Walker. We cannot disconnect him from the radical black past of Nat Turner. He's among those ancestors that spoke truth to power and was willing to put his body and his life on the line. And, Joe, that point there, Charles, go ahead, Charles, go ahead. Yeah, it's not a zero-sum game for me. It's not one strategy over the other. The battle has to be waged on all fronts, and not everybody can be militant. Not everybody can be radical.

When I was in Jackson, Mississippi in 2006, I had the opportunity to meet Hollis Watkins, who was an original member of SNCC. And he told me that we have to engage in the practice of truth-telling. And I asked him what he meant by that. And he said, you know, when he was arrested for registering people to vote throughout the state of Mississippi, when he was put on death row for registering people to vote in Mississippi, it dawned on him that just because he didn't see people on the front line with him getting arrested with him didn't mean that they weren't in the struggle. Somebody had to pray for him. Somebody had to

wash their clothes. Somebody had to cook for them. Somebody had to pay their legal fees. And so the battle is waged on all fronts. Joe, your thoughts. Roland, one, thank you so much for having me, especially with this dynamic panel. I come to this work as a student activist. The term headmaster was used at my high school. And as the daughter born to a man who was born under colonization in what would eventually become the Republic of Ghana, who subsequently taught political science and Africana studies, including focusing on the work of our now

dear ancestor John Lewis, that of course didn't work for me. And so terminating that title was essentially my first campaign. I have tried intentionally to channel the good, troubled spirit of John Lewis, but it is certainly not enough. I've worked directly with elected officials to introduce and pass bills like the Crown Act, for example, which Congressman Lewis supported. But I have never packed a toothbrush and an apple and left my home knowing that the likelihood was that I was going to jail. Certainly not 40 times. I've never left my home thinking I would be beaten and bloodied.

So there's a lesson, I think, in his work, not just in strategy, but in the resilience for all of us to learn about his life, which is a true testament to the power of nonviolent revolution to alter the course of history. He sacrificed so much of himself to move us forward, and we are truly just indebted to him. I don't know if the masses realize how much of a skilled legislator he was. And I think about his work and his legislative record on not just the Voting Rights Act, but, you know, so many others. He, you know, advocated for cuts to ineffective programs while protecting those that have proven records to actually work. The congressman understood, you know, the struggle for civil and human rights was bigger than one law and one vote and one judicial decision. And so I think about being in that next generation of folks who are coming up behind him and certainly we can never fill his shoes. But I think our work is neatly aligned in that while he was the youngest, you know,

in August of 63 at the March 4, he essentially said the same thing that we are saying now, which is, you know, we don't want our freedom gradually. We want our freedom now. So I think it's up to us, the next generation of activists who are coming behind him to truly study his work, understand what it is that he was

doing, and for us to follow suit in order to continue to move us forward. A little bit earlier this year, the NAACP Image Awards took place, and they honored Congressman John Lewis with their Chairman's Award. Now, in 2002, they honored him with their highest honor, the Sping Arn Medal. This is Leon Russell introducing and presenting that award to Congressman John Lewis. We all have our own personal heroes. We all have those who inspire us, who challenge us to be better, who set a standard of excellence and brilliance and leadership we not only aspire to, but leaves us in awe. For me, for all of us in this room, for people in this nation and around the world who love

justice, that hero is the man we honor tonight with the Chairman's Award, Congressman John Lewis. Let's take a look at the life of a living legend. John Lewis never just talked the talk. He walked the walk. In Nashville, Tennessee, Rock Hill, South Carolina, Anniston, Alabama, he rode buses in Mississippi and marched in small towns across the Jim Crow South that were a living hell for our people. I almost died in Montgomery. I was beaten, left bloody.

I got arrested 40 times during the 60s, five times since I've been in Congress, and I'm probably going to get arrested again for something. He survived and emerged even stronger for the fight ahead. And at every moment on his 60-year journey for civil rights, he has been a leader on the front lines of the cause. When you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, you have a moral obligation to do something. There are those who sacrifice so much while serving in our military

overseas, and there are those whose sacrifice comes on the battles here at home. To this day, he bears the scars of our struggle, and he has borne witness to how far we have come and how far we have to go. The last living speaker from the March on Washington. We must say, wake up, America, wake up. We do not want our freedom gradually, but we want to be free now. Washington. He now walks the halls of power in the nation's capital, continuing to lead the fight for our community and for all who demand justice. He's the recipient of the Profile in Courage Award, the Spingarn Award, and the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

But he is much more than that, for he is the conscience of a nation, a fighter for freedom, equality, and basic human rights. Along the way, he has changed America, and time after time, he has repaired its soul. He is John Lewis, a giant upon whose shoulders we all stand, and the recipient of the 2020 Chairman's Award. It's an honor for me to be here in Washington, D.C., with a true civil rights and legislative icon. And now it's my honor to present the NAACP Chairman's Award to Congressman John Lewis.

Thank you very much for this great honor. I'm more than honored to be receiving this award. When I was growing up in rural Alabama during the 40s and the 50s, I tasted the bitter fruits of segregation and racial discrimination. I didn't like it. I saw those signs that said white men, colored men, white women, colored women. And I asked my mother and my father, my parents, my grandparents, why?

They would say, boy, don't get in the way, don't get in trouble. But the NAACP inspired me to get in what I call good trouble, necessary trouble to try to change America. The NAACP has been like a bridge over troubled waters. We're going to have some more troubled waters. We need the NAACP now more than ever before. Again, I say thank you. What a great man. And by the way, a man who turned 80 yesterday. So on the count of three, let's give him a birthday shout out. One, two, three.

Happy birthday. Coming up on the NAACP Image Awards, J.B. Smoot. Greg, the reason I wanted to play that is because when we think back to what was taking place late 1950s and 1960s, it was black folks, black organizations, and black media who were really upholding and supporting our folk. Even if you go into the 70s, even if you go into that period after that, it was black organizations and black media. And so I appreciate how folks say, oh, you know, John Lewis was a human rights activist, member of Congress. But the reality is John Lewis was a black activist in the tradition of blackness.

Yes, he was. And you contrast him with C.T. Vivian. C.T. Vivian is really a bit of an outlier in that movement. He's about 15, 16 years older than John Lewis, about halfway between John Lewis's generation and Ella Baker's. You know, C.T. Vivian went to a white school, Western Illinois. He's born in Missouri, raised in Illinois. But that puts him as an outlier. John Lewis, like Ella Baker from Shaw, John Lewis went to Fisk, an American Baptist theological seminary, as did C.T. Vivian later. But if they went to school at all, these Sout Seminary, as did C.T. Vivian later. But if they went to school at all, these southerners, this whole movement was a black institutional movement. You're talking about court. The Cox at Howard, Frank Smith and Morehouse and Julian Bond, Dori Ladner at Tougaloo and Jackson State with her sister Joyce. I mean, they all come

out. Tim Jenkins at Howard. And so what you see is this black institutional thrust and these young people find themselves really and it's ironic that they would give John Lewis a kind of valedictory Spengard Award given in 1959, 1960, the Nashville student movement, Diane Nash, James Bevel, Bernard Lafayette, and so many others. You know, Roy Wilkins and them are wary. They're looking very warily at them. It was really Medgar Evers and local leaders. In fact, Dorian Joyce Ladner had dinner with Medgar Evers the night he is assassinated. But at that time, in some ways, you see Medgar Evers beefing with Roy Wilkins, because Roy Wilkins is like, you know, you got to get some control of these young people. And Dr. King, with Y.T. Walker, and then recruits C.T. Vivian to come and help organize SCLC.

But at the same time, you know, Vivian has a bit of a solidarity with these young people that Ella Baker stops, as you said, them from trying to get them to be the youth wing of SCLC. There are all these tensions at play. And so ultimately, I would say this. In the wake of 1965, what you then see is the United States begins to try to pick out of that movement those elements they can recruit into more status quo. The electoral politics, the thrust out of 1965, the voting thrust, begins to go toward

the kind of institutional access that we see today. They have good things. They have bad things in that. For example, Keisha Lance Bottoms, her aunt, her direct auntie was, of course, Ruby Doris Smith Robinson, who took as executive director of SNCC after James Foreman at the same time that they actually voted John Lewis out of SNCC. They didn't take it away from anybody. The young forces were still saying, no, status quo is not enough. There's no either or strategy, but we have to read the lives of these two men in particular because they are ancestors against the institutional forces that would try to shape our movements into more of respectable kind of go along to get along process. And two things come out of that. You get people like John Lewis, who was never going to go along to get along. He was hard headed when he went on that bridge, when SNCC said they weren't going to do it. And in the weight said, well, maybe that move was good in retrospect.

And he was hard headed when he stood in the United States Congress as the conscience of the Congress. The final thing is, the other thing is, as that movement to be inside, as Audrey was talking about, and push goes on, we have to have, as Dr. Satchel said, that outside movement, because we understand you can never predict where history is going to go. When Lewis and President Obama and them are walking across the bridge, one of the sisters in that wheelchair, by then over 100 years old, Amelia Boynton Robinson. It was her son, her son, who was a Howard University law student who got arrested in Richmond, Virginia, at the Greyhound. And they took the case in the Supreme Court, Boynton versus Virginia, argued by Thurgood Marshall. And who could predict that that case that Marshall argued would be one which triggered the Freedom Rides that C.T. Vivian and John Lewis and others went on, would sit John Lewis to Parchment

Penitentiary where they had classes in Parchment like Mandela and them had at Robben Island, which would then open the floodgates to create the electoral politics that would create a Terry Sewell and so many others in the South, Akisha Lance Bottoms. You can't predict history, brother. All black folk can do is keep punching with both fists and not give up because you never know where it's going to lead. Which is why, Charles, it's important when we are celebrating figures like John Lewis, you have to lay out the full story and not get caught up in what I call, again, the civil rights mascot sort of, he got the pom-poms, oh, he was so great and wonderful. It wasn't that simple. Exactly. You know, John Lewis poured out his life as an offering.

And you don't do that on Monday and then on Wednesday put it back in the cup. This is a life that he dedicated his entire being to freedom, to justice, and to equality. And so, as Brother Carr said, you know, this is about the collective, and we have to honor the legacy. And the way we do that is by continuing the work of justice in that black radical tradition. And so, you know, here at Africana Studies in Albuquerque, New Mexico, you know, we're dedicated to fighting the forces of evil and racism and white supremacy. And that just didn't happen, you know, last month or 10 years ago. That's

our foundation. And it's been our foundation. And so we're dedicated to doing that. What John Lewis, you know, inspires in my life as a young man who grew up in the Southwest, 3% African-American in the city of Albuquerque, the state of New Mexico, had the privilege to go to Clark Atlanta University and walk the streets where, you know, these iconic leaders lived and suffered. That inspired in me a will to continue. And so I look at the long view of history and I don't connect, disconnect the struggle that we're facing here in New Mexico from the struggle that John Lewis was facing as a 17 year old boy, 18 year old boy fighting for justice in the deep south. They talk about Bishop T.D. Jakes and preaching the Potter's House and preaching across the world and preaching to millions. And I always tell people, yeah, but if you don't want to talk about what he had to go through in West Virginia, then what you're actually doing is you're wasting your time because you have to deal with what a person went through in order to understand where they eventually got to. And that, to me, I think is really what's so critical as we talk about the life and

legacy of a Congressman John Lewis, of a Reverend C.T. Vivian, or any of our elders who then transitioned to ancestors. That cannot be lost and forgotten. I think you're absolutely right, Roland. You see this intentionality around sort of cherry picking quotes and, you know, moments when they gave certain speeches and we cannot do that. We have to look at their work in totality. We have to remember that they were, in fact, true radicals.

You know, the idea of peaceful protest was even too radical in their time. And that time wasn't too long ago. So and that includes policymakers. So I think you're absolutely right in that we cannot just, you know, select different pieces from what we want our people to know about them. We have to look at their entire body of work and truly understand what it is that they were seeking to do. That is still what's important. And again, when I put this in perspective, Rosalyn, when it comes to Black Lives Matter, when I look at whether it's Tamika Mallory and Linda Sassour out there, we unite freedom with my son, whether I'm talking to Tef Poe, whether I'm talking to Ashley Yates or any number of people, the reality is all of that stuff, all of the back and forth, the fights and folks like, why can't they all get along?

Well, hell, if anyone has any understanding of SNCC and CORD, SCLC and NAACP and all different groups, they were not always getting along. But what they eventually understood is that we might not like each other, we might hate each other, but there's a greater force that we still are all fighting against. And I think that's, again, what we have to constantly remind ourselves when we talk about the history of the folks like Lewis and Vivian. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1.

Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really really really bad listen to new episodes of absolute season one taser incorporated on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts binge episodes one two and three on may 21st and episodes four five and six on june 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.

Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch.

What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Absolutely. I remember when Congressman John Lewis came to Los Angeles and Nashville to spend time with a lot of our Black Lives Matter, Los Angeles organizers and other BLM organizers across the country. He encouraged our work. He's always supported our work, always supported our work. He pushed back against this narrative of respectability that you're talking about within the civil rights movement. He actually really encouraged us at a time when we were actually facing so much critique about our freeway shutdowns. He said, when we asked, when asked about the freeway shutdowns and what he thought about the critiques, you know what he said? He said, what do you think happened with the march on the Ed, to our disruption of what's happening in this country when we are engaging in lawful, free speech, First Amendment protected protests.

When the White House, the person inhabiting the White House that I refuse to call the name of, is talking about sending in federal law enforcement to quell protesters who are exercising their democratic rights to free speech. I am absolutely appalled that we are not hearing more of an outrage, more resistance, more pushing back. Because what John Lewis and C.T. Vivian did and so many others that have been on the show today and so many others before them whose names we will never know, they disrupted the status quo. They disrupted the centers of commerce. They disrupted traffic. They disrupted business as usual. We continue in that tradition. We study their work. We make sure that all of our members are trained in understanding the work of our elders and of our ancestors. We are a part of the same tradition, even though our strategies may differ as they did back then between Korsnick and SCLC,

we can't even start to talk about how extensive the disparities were in terms of approach, in terms of strategy, in terms of tactic, but they were effective because somehow or another, we emerged from that false myth of this monolith of blackness. A monolith of the black community has never existed. What we are is a variety of people with different skills, different backgrounds, and we can use those skills, those abilities, those gifts in this struggle. We need everybody to get out and get involved. We need the folks who say that they disagree to actually come and be a part of a civil dialogue and help them to understand why what we're doing is absolutely what we should be doing right now. We continue in this work, recognizing that love conquers hate. We agree on that with C.T. Vivian and with John

Lewis, who we both, we sat with both of them and we learned with them. We learned the lessons that Ella Baker taught them. We learned that sometimes it's more important for us to unify around a goal, even if our strategies and tactics may be different. We have the goal of justice. We have the goal of human rights for black folks. We have the goal of eliminating anti-black racism that has been vicious in our history in this country over 400 years. And we are all very well aware that it needs to be done. We're not willing to

play the games of acting like we're all talking about the same thing when we know very well that there are people who are seeking to undermine the equality and opportunities and access of black folks. We will not sit by and let another child be hit in the head with a police officer's baton or be struck in the back by a police officer's bullet without us standing up and saying no more. All right. Rosalyn, Joah, Charles, and Greg Carver, we really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having us. Folks, earlier today, we talked to Senator Kamala Harris, who shared with us her perspective and thoughts about losing the great Congressman John Lewis. Senator Kamala Harris, glad to have you back on Roland Martin Unfiltered. Quite a sad weekend for the Congressional Black Caucus, for the Congress, the nation and the world with the death of Congressman John Lewis.

It was, Roland. I mean, you know, the last time I saw him and we were together was actually the last big event I attended before the pandemic, which is to once again go to Selma and commemorate Bloody Sunday, where we, many of us as members of the Congressional Black Caucus and others walked across the Edmund Pettus Bridge. This time, however, John wasn't able to walk with us because his illness had taken away his strength in that way. But he surprised us and met us at the top of the bridge. And, um, he was such a special man. He was such a special, humble servant, a servant of God. He really was. He, you know, John has, he has fire in the belly, but the way that he would speak and talk and just look at you, it was always with a sense of dignity. You know, he had, he, he understood his own, he was very comfortable in skin. He understood the dignity of self and he always gave dignity to those with whom he spoke and, and, and with whom he led. And, um, it was

just a special man. And, you know, we had many wonderful conversations over the years. Um, somebody said, well, you know, during the civil rights movement, there were so many men. And I said, well, yeah, no, there were a lot of women too. Diane Nash being one of the remaining living heroes of those days. But one thing about John Lewis, he really, he loved ambition in women. It was really really it was wonderful to see he encouraged it he was always very encouraging of me and i like so many of us in our nation in our world um we'll truly miss him while we while you were talking we were showing uh some photos there uh of um you and him as well as when he was when he went down down to Black Lives Matter Plaza. For sure, I'm going to show that with Mayor Muehlbauer.

It's stage four cancer, Roland. And he was there with his cane, proud, proud and strong. This was a man who wasn't letting anything take away the strength that he had and shared with so many. Yeah. On that point, I mean, again, that was that was last month. He was that was in June. He was he was very ill, but he felt it was important that his that his presence be there. And I always use this phrase all the time that some people are present and some people have presence.

And he had both. That had both. That's great. You're right. You're totally right. And to your point, Roland, I mean, remember, you know, we have, we watch with admiration of his strength and his sacrifice, the video of that horrible beating of protesters, of which John was a leader, walking across the Edmund Pettus Bridge, those 50-something years ago. We see the black and white photographs and his speech on the mall

and the March on Washington, which, by the way, remember was the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, which was also a big part of John's life's work, which was fighting for civil rights and fighting for economic justice. But let's not forget to your point about being present and having a presence. He was present front and center then at these historic moments in our history, then the ongoing struggle for civil rights. But he was also present in understanding the collective struggle for civil rights. He was present, the first person to testify against DOMA in the United States Congress and to be present saying that there should not be these bans on people's ability who love each other to be married and in the fight for marriage equality.

He was front and present on that. He said that there was a connection that he was clear about from Loving v. Virginia to that current fight for marriage equality saying people should have the ability to love who they love. He was present in the ongoing fight that we have for immigration reform where he said that immigrant rights are about civil rights, right? John was present at Black Lives Matter Plaza when the paint on that ground was almost still wet, present, walking with a cane with stage four cancer, aligning himself, as he always did, with the struggle, with the movement, because he was such a leader in the ongoing movement, always present.

And, you know, I think that when you watch John watch the younger leaders of the movement through the years, that he knew, and I think the smile on his face was knowing that he was watching the next john lewis's both young men and young women see that's the reason i think that's important i think because i i believe that far too many people especially mainstream media want to operate as if oh my goodness we had, we had Congressman John Lewis and all these things that he did without realizing that, first of all, all these people were young. I mean, Andrew Young, Julian Bond, Diane Nash.

We could go down the line. All of them were young people. I mean, MLK was young as well. There are a significant number of young people today who we know and don't know who are doing who are who do an exact same thing he is doing. People who are out there leading protests, people who are out there fighting, who are lobbying, who are testifying. And so I think I think people people make a mistake in not acknowledging this continuum that has existed in this black freedom movement of young people. That's right. And you're exactly right. And let's remember, right, that in the day, back in the day, the kinds of things that people have said about the organizers and leaders of Black Lives Matter to to be critical of them, were some of the same things they said about King and about John Lewis and about those folks walking across the

Edmund Pettus Bridge. And he was, you know, he was clear about that. And history will be clear about the ongoing movement and what it has required to get a step closer to those words, equal justice under the law. It is always going to require people marching in the streets, demanding change in a peaceful way, of course, but demanding change no less and not conceding until it's accomplished and acquired. John Lewis was a kind and impatient man, but he was impatient when it came to the need to bring justice to all people. And he understood, I think, that it is, as Coretta Scott King said, the fight for every generation.

I'll paraphrase, but Coretta Scott King famously said the fight for civil rights must be fought and won with each generation. Right. I watched as Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and other Republicans weighed in, expressing their condolences for Congressman John Lewis. And I'll be honest with you, I really don't want to hear from people, release statements, when they aren't actually doing the things that he fought for. When there's a bill sitting on his desk that will fix the Shelby v. Holder decision when it comes to the Voting Rights Act, and it's been sitting there for more than 220 days. When I look at the lynching bill move forward, when I look at the delay when it comes to fine, the Senate didn't move forward on the bill of Senator Tim Scott when it came to the whole

issue of police reform. But it's not like they can't come back with a second bill and work with Democrats on one. And in that moment, I said, I'm sorry, if you truly want to honor this man, a statement on Twitter means nothing. Pass the law. So, Roland, I have called on Mitch McConnell to put the H.R. 4, which was passed out of the House, the Voting Rights Act, to put it on the floor of the Senate for a vote and name it the John Lewis Voting Rights Act of 2020. And because you are exactly right. Look, I'm too busy watching what you're doing to hear what you're saying. You can tweet all you want. Your condolences, express those condolences through the power of your role of leadership at the moment, which is to put that bill on the floor, which represents everything that he fought and bled for in the name of love of country and love of Constitution of the United States.

So you are right. You look at the need to pass the Justice in Policing Act that has now been named the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Cory Book been named the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act, Cory Booker and I worked on that together in the Senate. It was passed out of the House with bipartisan support. Put that on the floor for a vote. Let that be the basis of the discussion, because that's the one bill on police reform that has been presented in the course of these last many months that actually

has teeth in it and that would require real accountability and real consequence for bad behaviors. But yeah, put those bills on the floor. And if we need to debate them, sure, let's debate them, but put them on the floor. Don't hold back our ability to fight for progress in this nation because of your political agenda. When we talk about these issues, first of all, he wasn't just focused on voting. Any number of issues, 17 terms in Congress. And even up until his death, what's happening with coronavirus, what's happening when it comes to economic relief for Americans, when it comes to housing, you've put forth a bill in that

particular area because the reality is people are still hurting. People right now are facing getting kicked out of their homes and they're going, what am I supposed to do? That's right. So right now, I have many bills that I've offered and introduced to deal with this moment around this crisis, which has really highlighted a crisis that existed long before the pandemic, which is the racial disparities in our country around everything from homeownership and wealth to health, pre-existing conditions to educational disparities based on race. But specifically this week, I'm offering what's called the Relief Act. And what it would do is, one, it recognizes that in the month of June, Roland,

one-third of Americans were not able to pay their housing costs. One-third of Americans could not pay either their rent or their mortgage. This is serious. And so I'm saying that during the course of this pandemic and for months after that, there should be a ban on foreclosures, a ban on evictions, a ban on shutting off people's utilities like their water service, that there should be a ban on negative credit reporting until we get through this. And it would say—it would help the mom the mom and pop landlords, you know, the grandmother

who has, you know, one or two rental properties. But what it does is it says that we need to make sure that our families have a roof over their head to help them get through this crisis, which is not of their making. And that's why I'm proposing it, to protect renters, to protect homeowners. You know, I have a history of working on this issue. When I was attorney general in California, I took on the big banks around the foreclosure crisis, where they were—these predatory lending practices that disproportionately impacted black homeowners, Latino homeowners, immigrant homeowners. I have done this work.

And when people are looking at the possibility, the real possibility of losing their home, be it their apartment that they rent or the home that they are paying a mortgage on, it's a moment of real crisis. But we also can see in this moment an opportunity to save them and help them to get through this crisis in a way that they can be on their feet and land on their feet when it's over. I do want to ask you about one thing. You made this point earlier. Congressman John Lewis, the last surviving speaker of the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on August 28th, 1963. And you tweeted out a video of him speaking on that day. And a lot of people forget. First of all, a lot of people, far too many people only hear the last part of Dr. King's I have a dream speech. They totally ignore the top piece. They totally ignore all the other speakers on that

particular day. But in the clip that you posted and I want to play it. He spoke specifically about police brutality. Yeah, that's right. We are tired. We are tired of being beaten by policemen. We're tired of seeing our people locked up in jail over and over again. And then you holler, be patient. How long can we be patient? We want our freedom and we want it now. So here he is in this clip talking about police brutality, and we're still seeing it today. That's what led to the George Floyd protest nine, ten weeks ago. That's what's happening in Portland, where you have these undentified federal agents who are attacking people,

arresting them, taking them off of the streets as well. We are still dealing with the very same thing in 2020 that he spoke about in 1963. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

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And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

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Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Right. And that's why John Lewis was a part of the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act. And that's why he was out on Black Lives Matter Plaza, because he was seeing it through. He was seeing through his lifetime commitment to justice in America, understanding that one of the topics therein is police brutality

being disproportionately directed at black folks and people of color and indigenous people. John Lewis was clear about that from the beginning, and you will see a consistent through line in his life and in his career in fighting for these issues. And it really is—he saw so much progress, and I have to believe that he has passed on with a sense of great accomplishment. But, you know, in his honor, we really need to see it through, too. We all need to see it through. For him and for our community and for our country, we need to see it through. We need to be like John Lewis and always show up and see it through.

Well, Ambassador Andrew Young said something to me that I thought was important. He said they've moved on, he said, but they're still with us because the fact that we're still talking about them. We're still talking about what they did and what they mean means that they are still here living and breathing, simply not here physically. We keep them alive that way. We keep them alive that way. And it's part of our tradition also. He is now one of the ancestors. He was an elder and now he is an ancestor. And that's part of our traditions of honoring our ancestors and doing that always and passing down the stories to make sure that they are alive and not just that we romanticize them, but that we understand their struggle and their commitment. And we understand that it's our responsibility. It's our duty. It's not a luxury.

It's not if we feel like it, it's our duty. Those of us who have benefited from their struggle and their pain and their sacrifice, it is our duty to continue and to be their legacy. That's how we truly honor them. That's how we truly honor them. Senator Kamala Harris, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you. In 2018, we covered MLK 50, which was the commemoration of the assassination of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. We conducted a number of interviews with people all across the country.

One of them took place here in Washington, D.C., in his congressional office with Congressman John Lewis. We talked about a number of different things, including SNCC, Dr. King. But also, you're going to see, the first time time he had a conversation with Colin Kaepernick. I was actually texting Colin, told him what I was doing. He said he had never met Congressman Lewis. Congressman Lewis said he had never met Colin Kaepernick. And so you're about to see that conversation. We've never shown this before. And so we will close the show out with my sit-down conversation with Congressman John Lewis, icon and legend.

It took place in 2018. Congressman, when you began to think back. All those battles, all those fights. You were leader in SNCC. And it was interesting, your SNCC compadres were not always pleased with Dr. King. You had a difference of opinion there. Talk about being in the middle of that and trying to navigate all of these competing forces. You're right, I was in the middle of it all. When I was elected chair of the Student Nonviolent

Coordinating Committee in 1963, I was on the board of SCLC. Several years earlier, Martin Luther King Jr. had invited me to be a member of the board, to be sort of a liaison between the young people, the young activists and the adults. I admire Dr. King. I love him. He was like a big brother.

If it hadn't been for Martin Luther King Jr., I don't know what would have happened to me. He took me in. And I was grateful for what he did. And so I was never, ever going to try to put him down, never, ever going to call him the Lord. As you well know, people start referring to Dr. King as the Lord. The Lord said this, the Lord said that. And when we went on the Freedom Rides in May of 1961, some people thought that Dr. King should get on a bus and go on a freedom ride with us. Well, he had a case pending against him in Georgia, and he felt that it wouldn't be helpful for him to go on a freedom ride, that he could get arrested and he would be violating his probation. And it's been my feeling and a feeling of the young people in the

movement that came out of Nashville that we should never put pressure on someone when it was their time to do something or whether they wanted to get arrested or go to jail or to sit in or march let people come to their own conclusion make their own decision there was so many different people. I mean, I'm looking at the photos here, A. Philip Randolph, and I'm looking at Ralph David Abernathy and Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young and so many others. But what made Dr. King so different and unique from the rest of these legendary figures?

Dr. King came, I think, through the movement out of his sense of ministry. He felt like it was his calling. He felt like he had been ordained by God Almighty to lead. It was almost like the children of Israel being led out of Egypt. He felt the calling that he had to do something. And he felt that the opportunity was presented by the action of Rosa Parks. And he tried not to take sides in debates and discussion but be this healing force to bring people together so it didn't matter where they had to work with Roe Wilkins or the NAACP or

James Farmer or CORE or Whitney Young or Durbin League, A. Philip Randolph, he respected, he loved Mr. Randolph. Because he thought A. Philip Randolph, one of these leaders who was made out of the same clay, maybe molded from the same clay that he was molded from. And he would call, he didn't say A. Philip, he always said Mr. Randolph. And others sometimes would say Brother Randolph. And Dr. King would say Brother Randolph, but mostly he would say Mr. Randolph. He had so much respect and love for this man.

This man who was born in Jacksonville, Florida, moved to New York City, and became a champion of civil rights and human rights and labor rights. He's ahead of his time. So I was texting before, so let me pass it, so we were talking, I was texting this guy before you came in, so you say you never talked to him, you can go ahead and say hi to him. Hello sir, How are you? Colin? Hello? Congressman John Lewis. Hi, how you doing, brother? I'm doing great.

How you doing, brother? Fine, thank you for all of your work, for your leadership. You have touched me, you have inspired me, and to see you getting out there pushing and kneeling, you've done so much, not just for the American community, but for the world community. I said thank you. I admire you. I love you. Thank you for paving the way for an opportunity like this to even happen.

It's great to finally connect with you. I talk to Mr. B about you all the time. We have great conversations. So it's great to finally have this conversation and be able to connect. Yeah, well, I'm honored to have an opportunity to speak to you. I wish sometime when you're in Washington or in Atlanta that we could get together and maybe have something to eat or something to drink. Talk about where we must go from here. I would love to do that. I'll make sure Roland passes you my number so we can stay in contact.

Yes, I would love to do just that. I know there's a lot of members of the Congress, a lot of people trying to find a way, especially young members. We'd love to have an opportunity to talk with you. And there's hundreds and thousands, no doubt, of millions of students and young people been deeply inspired by you,

not just in America, but around the world. So keep it up. Keep the faith. It's all going to work out. Yes. We're not going to stop. We're just getting started. Good. We cannot stop now. Too much work to be done. You gave an interview once where you said after the 65 Voting

Rights Act the Civil Rights Movement pretty much was over. It was interesting when I was watching that documentary because you said these laws and folks were just trying to find their way. What did you mean by that? Well in 1965 when we passed the Voter Rights Act and hundreds and thousands and millions of people became registered voters for the first time. We had many many young people of color running for office and getting elected and I think a lot of people thought this is it, that we come this far. There was another major down payment on freedom.

And then when President Obama got elected, people saw that as another major step forward. But then we quickly learned that there were still people, still forces in America trying to take us back to another time and another place that still exists today.

So you had this point after 65, after King and others are trying to figure out what's next. He goes to Chicago. Very difficult path there. And then, course we get to 67 and then he decided to take his stand against the Vietnam War. When I talked to Clarence Jones, I said, I believe that his death certificate was written on April 4th, 1967. I just don't believe there's a coincidence that he's assassinated to the day,

a year to the day, after he gives that Beyond Vietnam speech at Riverside Church in New York. Well, on April 4th, 1967, I was at Riverside Church when he made that speech. And many people felt then, and I felt it also, that this was the defining moment that a lot of people, even people in the African-American community,

some people in the civil rights movement felt that he was breaking with the traditional supporters. He was attacked, vilified. By some black leaders. He was hated. He was even, some of the black leaders saying he's going too far. That he needed Lyndon Johnson. And Lyndon Johnson for the most part stopped speaking to him or calling him in. But he stopped taking his phone calls.

Yes. And there were people on the board of FCLC. When you tell the truth, nothing but the truth, they sort of dissed him. And it was a lonely period for him that last year so many people i've talked to the strain the pressure the stress speaking fees dried up his book where do we go from here chaos or community worth selling book nobody wanted to read it as you observed him in that final year, did you see that as well? And did he talk about what he was dealing with? Well he was trying to organize the Poor People's Campaign. He hadn't planned to go to Memphis. He was invited by the labor union and by Jim Lawson, someone that he admired and trusted to come and help the sanitation workers.

It was a difficult year for him. Some people suggested that he needed a rest, and others suggested that maybe he should go and become a president of some major college or university and he would have been criticized on all sides. But he was a man of conscience. It was not a good year for him. Take me to the last conversation you had with him. When was it? The last time I had an opportunity to talk with Dr. King was in mid-March, just before he went to Memphis. It was at Peska's Hotel, a restaurant.

He had been meeting with a group of rank-and-file members of organizations working with low-income or poor people. They were black, white, Latino, Asian American, and Native American. He wanted the Poor People's Campaign to look like America and he kept saying I will see you in Washington and he never made it to Washington. The night that he was assassinated, that evening, I was in Indianapolis, Indiana, campaigning with Robert Kennedy, working toward his nomination, the Democratic nomination for president. And when I heard that Dr. King had been shot, I didn't know his condition. When Robert Kennedy came to speak, he said, we have some sad news tonight that Martin Luther King Jr. had been assassinated

in Memphis, Tennessee. So prior to him saying that, you didn't realize it. So when that audience found out, that's when you found out. That's right. When the audience heard the message, I heard it at the same time. And I and I said to myself will we still have Bobby so I went back to Atlanta and help in preparation for the funeral and stayed there for about two weeks I got back in the campaign and went to Portland, Oregon with Robert Kennedy. Then I went on to Los Angeles. And I teamed up with Cecil Servais. And we went to these wealthy neighborhoods and homes of primary white citizens,

urging them to vote for Bobby Kennedy rather than for Humphrey or Eugene McCarthy. Went to churches. We had an unbelievable motorcade through the city, and there was these black athletes like Raphael Johnson and the big guy, Rosa Greer, trying to hold Kennedy in the car.

And you saw hundreds and thousands of people, especially in the African-American community, in the Latino community, rallying for Bobby. And he invited me to come to his suite that evening, and he joked with me. He said something like, John you let me down today, more Mexicans than Americans turn out to vote than Negroes. And he was just joking but I felt, I truly felt that when Dr. King was assassinated, I said, well, we still have Bobby.

In less than two and a half months, he was gone. And I think something died in America with the death of Dr. King and Bobby Kennedy. When I talked to Jim Lawson, I said, in the aftermath of Dr. King's death, what did you do? He said, we went back to work. He said, we had work to do. He said he did not grieve until July. He said that's when he just broke down. Were you in the same place where there was still work to do?

That there was no time to feel sorry and to mourn? When we were caught up in the moment, you had to continue to work. We had a major national election coming up. So I didn't mourn that much but every single day I thought about Dr. King. Matter of fact I went back to Atlanta between the campaigning effort and trying to support others and And my doctor said, you need to rest. And made it possible for me to go to the hospital and just rest for about two weeks.

And then I got back on the road, supporting local candidates, trying to get people registered, turn people out to vote. Became a delegate to the Democratic Convention. I was a junior bond. We were supporters. We were challenging the Maddox,

Lester Maddox delegation of Georgia. And I had a half a vote in the convention and I voted for Ted Kennedy in honor of Bobby Kennedy. What's the one thing about Dr. King that you would want folks to know about him? Someone who knew him personally, intimately, that one thing you would want people to really about him someone who knew him personally intimately that one thing you would want people to really know and understand about Martin Luther King Jr. should be remembered as a person who loved his fellow human being he loved people and he loved humor also He could tell jokes that would make you laugh or cry and

sometime in the process of telling jokes He would Sort of preach about each one of us in a meeting So when you come to die, this is what I'm going to say about you. And he would just tell it. And sometimes you'd be riding in a car in Alabama or someplace down some dirt road in Georgia or Mississippi. You'd see a restaurant, a hole in the wall. He said, we should stop and get something to eat.

We get arrested and go to jail, we go on a full stomach. And then he would just laugh about it. But I think this was part of his effort to make us all feel relaxed and not be up so tight and not be so afraid. for it. I remember once in Selma, Alabama, when we were trying to desegregate a major old hotel and Dr. King and others were in the process of checking in. And a guy who was a racist walked up and said to Dr. King, are you Martin Luther King Jr.? And this guy hit Dr. King in the face just as hard as he could. And I remember grabbing this man and holding him. I never, ever grabbed anyone like this. But something told me to grab this man, and I grabbed him

and held him until the local police officials arrived and arrested him. Three questions left. First, do you believe when it comes to, when you look at young folks, especially African Americans, that had SNCC stayed in existence and continued on its mission, that it would have been that vehicle for young African Americans to be able to stay involved in the movement. We still have the NAACP, still have the National Urban League, still have these other organizations. I've always maintained that SNCC's demise ended that vehicle for young black folks

to be involved in leadership. I agree with her so much so. That the demise of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee cut off. It ended the link the connection for young African Americans to have a role a major role to play in the sub-rights movement the hundreds of thousands of students in high school, in college. It would have been a training ground for people to lead because many of these young people,

they led in North Carolina, in Virginia, in South Carolina, in Georgia, in Alabama, in Mississippi. These young people grew up. They became of age, and they didn't have a national organization. Only the NAACP had a youth council. Had a youth arm. The other organization didn't have that. Thousands of people, more than 50,000 people are expected more than 50,000 people are expected to be in Memphis to commemorate the assassination of Dr. King April 4th, their events are planned all week

what do you want people to do April 5th I want people to learn everything to know about Dr. King during April 3rd and 4th, but on April 5th go out

and be involved in some direct action or conducting voter registration campaign or signing up to run for office as a tribute to Martin Luther King Jr. or going teaching some school, going trying to save and rescue some young people. I ask this question of others, and I ask it of you. 30, 40, 50 years from now, some kid somewhere is reading a book, watching a documentary, they are going across something on the internet, and they

see the name John Lewis, whether it's before you were in Congress or after, what would you want that child to know about John Lewis? First of all, I would want that child to know that as a young person, I was deeply inspired and moved by the teaching and action of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And they too can be inspired to take action, to stand up and speak up and speak out and get in what I call good trouble, necessary trouble. But they learned a lesson of Dr. King the teaching of dr. King have been for more Luther King jr. I don't know what would happen to many of us growing up in the south still missing a missing I miss him every day in his office, I'm surrounded by him.

In my home in Atlanta, in my home in Washington, I'm surrounded by him. It reminds me of some unbelievable days, the meetings, the preaching and speaking of this one man. I grew up very shy. And listen to Dr. King. I lost my shyness. He made me a better human being. He taught me how to stand up, fight, speak up, and speak out. Well, that's it.

Thank you, sir. Congressman, I appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Thanks a bunch. You're welcome. This is an iHeart Podcast.