#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Texas Border Law, Trump Booted off Colo. Ballot, Conn. City Sue for Botched Death Investigations

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

12.20.2023 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Texas Border Law, Trump Booted off Colo. Ballot, Conn. City Sue for Botched Death Investigations Texas has a new law that will allow police to arrest migrants who enter the U.S. illegally. Texas Representative Mark Veasey is here tonight to discuss this law and the recent lawsuit filed by a Texas County.  Colorado Supreme Court's historic decision to boot Trump off the primary presidential ballot under the 14th Amendment is not setting well with those MAGA folks. We'll break down what this means and discuss the possibility of the U.S. Supreme Court overturning the decision with a former U.S. District Judge and Justice Correspondent, Elie Mystal.  President Joe Biden responds to Trump saying immigrants coming to the U.S. are "poisoning the blood of our country." Two black Connecticut families filed federal lawsuits against a city because of how the police investigated their deaths. The attorney representing both families will explain why they are going after the city.  And my 1-on-1 with gospel artist Sir The Baptist, who showcased her talents on the McDonald's 17th Annual Inspiration Celebration Gospel Tour.  Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV. The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man.

We met them at their homes. We met them at the recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like, he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit adoptuskids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. Să ne urmăm în următoarea mea rețetă. Thank you. The Să ne urmăm în următoarea mea rețetă. Today is Wednesday, December 20th, 2023. Coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered,

streaming live on the Blackstar Network. Texas has a new law that will allow police to arrest migrants who enter the U.S. illegally. We'll be joined by Congressman Mark Beasley to talk about that. Also, Lieutenant Governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, is now threatening that if Colorado kicks Trump off the ballot, he's gonna make sure Texas does it as well

to kick Joe Biden off. But Joe Biden didn't lead the insurrection. The people in my home state are stuck on stupid. Colorado Supreme Court historic decision to boot Trump off the primary presidential ballot using the 14th Amendment. Ooh, man, MAGA people are not taking it well. We'll talk with a retired federal judge about this decision. Also, the nation's justice correspondent, Ellie Mistel. President Joe Biden responds to Trump saying

immigrants coming to the U.S. are poisoning the blood of our country. He was speaking today in Milwaukee where they were touting small business booming for black and Latinos. Plus, two black Connecticut families filed federal lawsuits against a city because of how the police investigated their clients.

We'll talk to the attorney. Also, I go one-on-one with gospel artist Sir the Baptist. And Taraji Henson makes some interesting comments about pay inequity in Hollywood. I'll break that down in my Where's Our Money segment. It's time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Our Money segment. It's time to bring the funk. I'm Roland Martin Unfiltered on the Blackstone Network. Let's go. snowing, putting it down from sports to news to politics, with entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling.

Yeah, yeah. It's Uncle Roro, yo. Yeah, yeah. It's Roland Martin. Yeah, yeah. Rolling with Roland now. Yeah, yeah. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best. You know he's Roland now. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real, the best,

you know he's Roland Martel. Now. Martel. All right, folks, the ACLU and other civil rights groups are suing Texas on behalf of El Paso County and other plaintiffs over a new border law. Texas Governor Greg Abbott signed SB4 into law earlier this week, which will allow Texas to charge some migrants who are here illegally with a state crime. Joining us now from Fort Worth is Congressman Mark Vesey.

Congressman, glad to have you here. Is this legal? No, I don't think that it's legal at all. I don't believe that Abbott has the right to do this. I think that what Abbott is ultimately doing is that he's auditioning. He is trying to prepare himself to be the next U.S. attorney general in case Trump is elected as president of the United States. And so this is all politics and theater. I think that Abbott knows that it's illegal. But again, it just shows that the Republican Party, where their where their goals are and their goals are to try and divide us by things like race and culture. And they're making a big to-do over this border issue. Instead, what they should be doing is working with Democrats. And Abbott, as a governor of a border state, should be saying, hey,

Democrats and Republicans, get together and pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill. And he should be moving away from these theatrics and showboating that he's doing. This is the same guy who also spent $4 billion in taxpayer money in Texas, sending troops to the border, inspecting cargo, and it did nothing. It was an absolute waste of money. Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. But it's classic Abbott. Anything that he can do

to try and get into the spotlights to keep his name out there so he can get that next big position, that's what he's all about. And of course, again, this is not what is good for Texas. What would be great for Texas is if we were to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the district that I represent alone, that's in Fort Worth and Dallas. If we were to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the district that I represent alone that's in Fort Worth and Dallas, if we were to pass a comprehensive bill, it would create 30,000 jobs in my district in the next five years. And you can multiply that by various, the 40 or so, 38 districts across the state that we have, and it would create this similar amount of jobs in the other districts. And so why not do that? We have more jobs in Texas than we have people. And again,

these sort of theatrics that Abbott is doing, I think that is completely illegal, and it plays to the worst instincts of Texans, And it's terrible. It's awful. Speaking of that, the Colorado Supreme, the Colorado decision regarding Trump, the Supreme Court. Now you got Dan Patrick. He goes on Fox News and now he's threatening that if Colorado is successful in keeping Trump off the presidential ballot using the 14th Amendment,

he goes that Biden is going to get taken off the ballot in Texas. Last I checked, Biden did not lead an insurrection. Right. Biden absolutely did not lead an insurrection. Had Biden lost his election, he would have peacefully respected the exchange of power that happens on January the 20th when a president loses or when a president's second term has expired. And so we would never have to worry about that. And you have to worry about that, of course, with Trump. And so what I think is probably going to happen is that the Supreme Court will make a ruling on this. They are probably going to take into consideration that other states

may do some sort of tit-for-tat type, you know, games that could undercut our democracy. And so I think that all of those things will be taken into consideration. But you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, it's Trump that led an insurrection, that refused to call off the insurrectionists until he was threatened with the 25th Amendment. And so all of people in MAGA America, they have to remember that. All of my MAGA colleagues have to remember that, that it was Trump's own people, not Democrats, that threatened to remove this man immediately had he not called off the insurrectionists because he refused to do so. Congressman Mark Vesey, always a pleasure. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Good to see you, Roland. All right. Thanks a bunch. Folks, look, just understand what we're dealing with here. You're dealing with a hard right, with the craziness they always are filled with. My panel, Robert Petillo, host, People, Passion, Politics, News & Talk 1380, W-A-O-K out of Atlanta, Rebecca Carruthers, vice president, Fair Election Center out of D.C., A. Scott Bolden, attorney, and also former chair of the National Bar Association, plus the D.C. Chamber of Commerce Political Action Committee is also out of D.C.

But bottom line is, Scott, what we're dealing with is, what we're dealing with, as you heard Congressman Vesey say, you've got these right-wing Republicans, these MAGA Republicans. I mean, it's all theater. Abbott was the one who's been sending migrants to Democrat cities and all sort of stuff along those lines. And they keep talking about how Democrats are failing when it comes to the border. But the reality is he's full of it.

Well, that was ridiculous. But, you know, that works for his political followers. That works for, that narrative, those political stunts that don't help but hurt the immigration process works for those Republicans, those MAGA supporters, for Abbott, whatever he's angling for. But it doesn't help the immigration issue.

We have a crisis at the border. You have tens of thousands of people who are fleeing violence and looking for a better economic opportunity that want to come to the United States. And they're fleeing these countries, right? And so whenever I hear Democrats or Republicans talking about we need an immigration bill, actually, if you really wanted the immigration bill, if both of them really wanted one, you could get an immigration bill. But the big penalty or the big chasm here is that the Democrats want these illegal immigrants to have a path to citizenship.

And the Republicans literally don't. Yet, if these were white Northern European immigrants from the 30s and 40s, you'd give them a pathway to citizenship. So then you're left with these black and brown people who want economic opportunity, want to pursue the American dream. And all you hear Republicans talk about is we've got to close the border. This is too much. Well, but it's too much simply because they're black and brown people. I mean, their arguments are just rooted in race and whistle-calling. And so what can we do here?

One piece is I'm not sure that if you put 100,000 troops on the border, you put $100 million on the border, and therefore we'd have a more efficient process and you'd have more resources there, whether that would solve the problem. Here's an idea. Invest in those countries that those immigrants are coming from so that they have education opportunity, entrepreneurship, jobs, job training, as we did in Guadalajara about 10 years ago, you would reduce the demand of those individuals coming to the U.S., right? That would solve your problem probably in two to five years.

But we're not investing in those countries because we'd rather invest in Ukraine and the Middle East and what have you. And they're wrong with that. Right. But this is the biggest issue for Republicans and Democrats. This is the greatest threat to democracy. Then why not invest in those countries to reduce the demand for those wanting to come here? That's a big picture solving piece. Yeah, but here's the deal here, Rebecca. And that is the fact of the matter is this problem has been exacerbated because big business in America, they have taken advantage of cheap labor. And this goes back to the 70s and the 80s and the 90s. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer

Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast

season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals.

Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position. Pre-game to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at thisispreetirement.org, brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council. In the 2000s, when they did not want, when they were talking about, well, a check system, no, big business has benefited from cheap labor, and they were the ones who did not want to see folks deported.

Well, it's even more than that. We also have to examine U.S. policy that has led to the destabilization of the region going back to the 70s and 80s as well. So it's the U.S. government policies as well as what's happening with big business. But furthermore, there are American companies now that actually have billboards in Central America advertising and telling people exactly where to show up at. Look, your viewers know I'm from Omaha, Nebraska. In Nebraska, there are a lot of migrants. You know, I'm not going to tell who isn't here legally and who is here illegally, but I will tell you, how would someone know how to get to

Nebraska if they're not being told, hey, go up here, there are some jobs, this is how much we're going to pay you. And this happens, wash, rinse and repeats all across the country, where we're seeing an influx of migrants who don't have the paperwork authorizing them to be in the country in order to work. So it is a big business issue, but it's also a failure of U.S. policy. So for Texas government to very high-handedly decide, hey, we're going to start arresting these people because they shouldn't be here, well, let's talk to a lot of the Texas business owners who are also recruiting those people because, like you said, it's cheap labor. And cheap labor in this country has been since the beginning of this country, and it started with slavery.

Robert? You know, I find it interesting when Republicans use this issue of immigration reform as their kind of battering ram against Democrats. You had a Gang of Eight bill in 2013 that would have, for the most part, solved the problem. House Republicans walked away. Only a few members of the burgeoning Tea Party movement at the time called an amnesty, and they walked away from the deal. You had the Schumer compromise in 2015 during the Obama administration that, for the most part, would have solved this issue nearly a decade ago. You had Senate Republicans, including Ted Cruz, walk away from the deal.

During the Trump administration, February 2018, we had a compromise in place. President Trump said, why do we have all these migrants from shithole countries, according to Dick Durbin, and Republicans walked away from the deal that took place then. There's been an immigration bill in the House of Representatives since President Biden took office. And when Democrats had control of the House, it passed the House, it couldn't pass the Senate. Now the Democrats have control of the Senate and not the House. It can't even get out of the House. So Republicans don't want to actually do anything

about immigration. They love the system as it works right now. As you said, illegal migrant labor is the only thing keeping the American economy afloat. If all of a sudden these people had rights, you had to pay them above board, you'd have to pay people $13, $15 an hour to pick up avocados and tomatoes in this country. The dining industry will go out of business.

Look in the kitchen of any restaurant you're in. If you ask people for their paperwork, they ain't got it. That's what keeps the restaurant prices at a range where normal people can afford to pay for them. If you go to McDonald's, a Big Mac now costs about $11 for a meal. That's about what a sit-down meal costs because of labor prices and price gouging by corporations. So let's not pretend that Republicans have any interest in actually doing anything about the border and about immigration. President Biden should use every unilateral action possible within the executive branch in order to stem the tide to, as Scott said, deal with the pipeline issues.

Let's not pretend that President Trump did not try to overthrow the president of Venezuela a couple of years ago, replace Maduro with Juan Guaido. That crashed the Venezuelan economy. He put sanctions on the nation. That's what caused the mass influx of people migrating here. It's not that people just suddenly decided, I want to leave a tropical paradise or sell everything I have and walk a thousand miles to pick tomatoes in Minnesota. It's that they're being pushed by outside forces. Let's end the American war on drugs, because if you had people in America not snorting up all the drugs, then you wouldn't have cartels

running governments in Central and South America. Until America takes their responsibility and the hegemonic power within this region seriously, then they cannot complain about the people coming across the border that we're forcing across the border in the first place. Well, we have clearly no interest. That too fits in the problem. Hold tight one second, folks. When we come back, oh,

we got to talk Colorado. Republicans are outside of their minds, angry and upset that the Colorado State Supreme Court has kicked Trump off the ballot. We'll talk to Ellie Mischel, the justice correspondent with The Nation. Also, we'll talk to retired federal judge Vanessa Gilmore about this shocking decision. There's a lot to break down. Folks, if you're watching on YouTube, hit the like button, please.

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to hip hop, honestly, because it is a legacy of Black women's resistance and Black women supporting our communities. That's what Harriet Tubman did. That's on the frequency on the Black Star Network. Hey, what's up? Keith Turino, the place to be. Got kicked out your mama's university.

Creator and executive producer of Fat Tuesdays, an air hip-hop comedy. But right now, I'm rolling with Roland Martin. Unfiltered, uncut, unplugged, and undamned believable. You hear me? Ooh, lordy! Republicans have been losing their minds over the last 24 hours

after the Colorado State Supreme Court ruled that Donald Trump violated Section 3 of the 14th Amendment and he was not eligible to be on the Colorado ballot. They have been saying, Democrats, you're going to pay for this. We're going to come back and get you. I mean, they've been making all sorts of threats. How dare you? He was never convicted.

He was never. Constitution doesn't require that. I mean, they have been just losing it. First of all, it's going to go to the Supreme Court. All right. So the conservatives got a 6-3 advantage on the Supreme Court. But I thought these people were strict constructionists. I thought they were about the text.

What does the text say? I thought they were about the text. What does the text say? I thought they were about law and order. Oh, I'm sorry. That only applies to non-MAGA people. All right. First up, we've got a couple of great people talking about this here. Ellie Mistel is the justice correspondent for The Nation.

Ellie, they have been cussing your name all day. Just dogging you left and right, mad, upset and angry. And so, but what do you make of a number of conservative judges? One of them has been on CNN. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey.

We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit AdoptUSKids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.

MSNBC saying these judges really made a coherent argument, and they're actually using conservative judges' language in their own decision. Absolutely, Roland. First of all, thanks for having me. Before I go on, I just want to say my favorite thing is when people are threatening me with Civil War II, brother. And I'm like, you realize that's why the 14th Amendment is here, right? Because we kicked their ass before, and so then we had to put in the Constitution. Anyway, so yes, the reason why the Colorado Supreme Court opinion

is so delicious is that it uses the conservatives' own arguments and ideologies against them on two fronts. One, you've already mentioned, that it's a strictly textual, a strict constructionist reading of the Constitution. Section 3 of the 14th Amendment says that you can be barred from holding office if you engage in insurrection. Doesn't say convicted of insurrection. Doesn't say jailed for insurrection. Says engaged in insurrection, which of course makes sense when you think about the history and traditions of the 14th Amendment. People forget most of the Confederate, most of the ancestors, the people who were yelling at me, most of the Confederates were never tried and convicted of treason after the war. U.S. Grant took their guns and sent them

home, right? And where they could terrorize black people to their heart's content, as people in our community well know. But they were never rounded up, put on trial, and sent to jail for their participation in the Confederacy. So understanding this, when they wrote the 14th Amendment trying to exclude these people from ever holding office again, they wrote the 14th Amendment in a way that didn't require them to be convicted of treason. Merely participating in the rebellion was enough to bar them from the ballot. So that's one. That's a strict constructionist reading of the 14th Amendment, which conservatives allegedly like. The other thing the Colorado State Supreme Court did was argue for its own

states' rights. And you and I both know conservatives love to talk about states' rights whenever it comes to oppressing black people, right? Whenever it comes to denying black people the right to vote or the right to participate in the polity. Oh, it's all states' rights then, right? Well, here, Colorado is saying they have states' rights to decide for themselves who gets on the ballot in Colorado. And towards that end, the Colorado State Supreme Court quotes none other than current Republican Justice Neil Gorsuch, who, when he was on the Tenth Circuit, wrote an opinion defending, wait for it, Colorado's state's rights to kick a Muslim off the ballot who wanted to run for president. His name was Abdul Karim Hassan. He was a naturalized citizen. The Constitution says that only natural-born citizens can hold the office of the president. See, Neil Gorsuch applied a strict constructionist reading to natural-born versus naturalized, said that Hassan did not qualify to be president, and Colorado, because of states' rights, had the right to kick Hassan did not qualify to be president and Colorado, because of states' rights,

had the right to kick Hassan off the ballot. That's exactly on point to the Trump case. So really, I always ask conservatives, what's your problem with this ruling? This is what y'all say you like. The thing that, first of all, it was a group of Republicans that actually filed this lawsuit, correct? Absolutely. It's Republicans who want to run for president, want to run in the Colorado Republican primary, who don't think that it's fair for them to run against Republican Donald Trump, since he should be disqualified from holding office. Now, they also say, well, these are three, these are four Democratic judges.

The Republican judges rule against it. But that's why we have state Supreme Courts. I mean, they don't mind when Republicans control the Wisconsin State Supreme Court or the West Virginia Supreme Court or the Florida Supreme Court or the North Carolina Supreme Court or the Florida Supreme Court or the North Carolina Supreme Court or the Ohio Supreme Court or Alabama or Mississippi or Tennessee or Georgia or Arkansas or Texas. And they try to impeach judges in Wisconsin when Democrats take control of the Wisconsin

state Supreme Court. Yeah, so absolutely, there is deep hypocrisy all around, all infused into this issue. They're suddenly saying that it's not fair that Democrats, that most of the justices, judges on the Colorado State Supreme Court were appointed by Democrats. They don't seem to have a problem with the fact that Donald Trump handpicked three of the judges who will be presiding over this appeal at the Supreme Court. And to say nothing of the one judge who you and I, Roland, both know has no business being within a luxury yacht trip of this case, right? Clarence Thomas should recuse himself from this appeal because Donald Trump is being charged with what Jenny Thomas did.

Right. And you can't sit in appeal on trying to figure out if somebody like your wife would be allowed to run for president. Right. Like you can't. That's that's a clear conflict of interest. And if Clarence Thomas had any dignity, he doesn't. But if he did, he would not besmirch these proceedings with his presence. You know you can't mess with Miss Jenny. Not Miss Jenny. Please, go get me a glass. Whatever the Supreme Court does, it should be an eight-justice Supreme Court, not an I-1, because Thomas should go.

Miss Jenny said, Ellie, go get me a glass of lemonade. Alright Ellie I appreciate it. Thanks a lot for breaking it down for us. Thanks so much for having me Roland have a nice one. I appreciate it. Alright folks so judges they have to deal with this stuff all the time. This is a 213 page

decision written by the California State Supreme Court. When I come back from this break I'm going to talk to a retired federal judge who kind of knows a little something about the law and can't wait to get her perspective on this decision. People are going back and forth, well, the Supreme Court, they will overturn. Others say they may not, whatever. Whatever, we'll get to that when we get to that. But I really want to hear from a judicial standpoint about this particular decision by Supreme Court. Of course, our panel can't wait to weigh in as well,

especially our two lawyers. You know Scott going to run his mouth real quick, so we'll leave some time for that. We'll be back. Roland Martin, Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Back in a moment. Let's get wealthy with me, Deborah Owens, America's Wealth Coach. Did you know that 43% of Americans say that they're going to go deeper into debt

because the cost of everything of inflation on our next gonna hear from money coa costs as she shares exact to stay out of debt and g paid off my $100,000 in p was just doing strategies kind of piecemeal. I was doing like what I thought would work. And then it was like, oh, great, it did.

It was effective. And then I was like, I should document this. I should explain like how I got out of debt. That's right here on Black Star Network with me, Deborah Ola, America's Welcome. On the next A Balanced Life with me, Dr. Jackie, beware the generational curse. They're everywhere in our families, in our workplaces, and even in our churches. It's like a minefield, identifying the curse and knowing what to do about it.

When we're talking about generational patterns, oftentimes we get locked into those patterns because we don't want anyone to say, oh, you acting brand new. Are you doing something different from how this is how we always did it? It's okay to do something different in order to get the results that you want to see in your life. That's next on A Balanced Life on Blackstar Network. Hey, what's up, y'all? I'm Devon Frank. I'm Dr. Robin B., pharmacist and fitness coach, and you're watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, folks, welcome back to Roland Martin Unfiltered right here on the Black Star Network. We're talking about Colorado's decision.

All right, this is the ruling that caused folks just to lose it yesterday. And this came from the Colorado State Supreme Court. Come on, show it. And they let it out. They said, in this appeal from a district court proceeding under the Colorado Election Code, the Supreme Court considers whether former President Donald J. Trump may appear on the Colorado Republican presidential primary ballot in 2024. A majority of the court holds that President Trump is disqualified from holding the office of president under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment

to the United States Constitution. Because he is disqualified, it would be a wrongful act under the Election Code for the Colorado Secretary of State to list him as a candidate on the presidential is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it.

I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit AdoptUSKids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. The court stays its ruling until January 4th, 2024, subject to any further appellate proceedings. Now, of course, that's the deadline to be on their ballot. What do they base that on? They base that on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Now, as we have said before, there were three Reconstruction Amendments, 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment,

that were passed by the radical Republicans after the Civil War. In Section 3, it says disqualification from holding office. It says clearly here that no person shall be a senator or representative in Congress or elector of president and vice president or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States or under any state who, having previously taken an oath as a member of Congress or as an officer of the United States or as a member of any state legislature or as an executive or judicial officer of any state to support the Constitution of the

United States shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Vanessa Gilmour is a retired federal judge, spent more than a couple of decades on the federal bench. She joins us right now. We could talk the law or talk travel. She's such a travel aficionado. But we won't talk travel this time. We could also talk golf, too. We'll talk the law or talk travel. She's such a travel aficionado. But we won't talk travel this time. We could also talk golf too.

We'll talk about the law. Judge, good to see you. Let's talk about the law, Roland. Let's talk about it. All right. So here's the deal. I saw that was, last night that was a, I'm going to pull it up here. That was, give me a second. That was a tweet from

former congressman Justin Amash. pull it up here. That was, give me a second, that was a tweet from former Congressman Justin Amash. And he was not happy at all with this decision. And then he, this is what he said. The opinion of the Colorado Supreme Court is shameful and runs completely counter to our constitutional system. Donald Trump was not removed from office by Congress for engaging in insurrection. Donald Trump has not been criminally convicted in a court of law of engaging insurrection. And it goes on and on and on and on and on. But the Constitution doesn't say that.

It doesn't say you have to be convicted or indicted or tried. It's real clear what it says regarding an insurrection directly involved in or aiding someone in it. That is exactly right. And the arguments against this ruling are sort of threefold, Roland. One, whether or not a president of the United States or a former president of the United States could be subject to the strict construction of the Constitution of the United States. The Colorado Supreme Court in its ruling said that the arguments against it were ridiculous. They said that the arguments essentially said that it should apply to everybody except the president and everybody and every office except the highest office in the land, the presidency.

It does not say that. It says anybody holding an office in the United States and the presidency is an office in the United States. So it clearly applies. So the arguments against it in that regard are not well-founded at all. They're not supported in the law. The other argument that I thought was most interesting is listening to the response of all of the other Republican candidates for president today, and all of whom said, well, this decision shouldn't be made by judges. This isn't something that the judges should decide. This should be decided by the people. This is a legal issue.

The judges are the only ones that are qualified to interpret and analyze what the Constitution means on a particular issue. If you're talking about looking at the strict construction of the Constitution, that is for the courts to decide. That is not for the electorate to decide. And so the argument that this is a decision that should not be made by judges. It's bogus as well. And then the third argument is that the court should not be defining what an insurrection was. That is their responsibility to interpret words that are set forth in the Constitution and tell us what they mean. opinion explaining what insurrection meant and explaining why it applied and why this was an applicable situation here where a person had been involved in an insurrection. They did not have to be convicted. That's not what the Constitution requires. And so that argument also fails, Roland. Well, here's why it's also laughable, okay? And that is when you listen to them, try to explain all these different things.

And well, you know, like I say, wasn't convicted. And the voters, the voters, the voters did decide he lost. The problem was he refused to abide by the will of the voters and led the insurrection to thwart the will of the voters. So I'm sitting here going, what the hell are y'all talking about? Right. Nothing. Nothing. The voters did decide. They decided he should leave. He started an insurrection. The Constitution says if you are involved in an insurrection, it didn't specifically say the word president, but it applies to every person who is seeking an office and every office up to and including the presidency, even though those words are not specifically written there. Because the Supreme Court of Colorado said it would be ridiculous to say that this applied

to every office except for the presidency of the United States. And so the only remedy to find out whether or not this should proceed, whether or not his name could be placed on the ballot, was to sue the Secretary of State of Colorado and have the Secretary of State defend this. Now, interestingly, Roland, 14 different people sent in amicus briefs. All kinds of people wanted to weigh in on this. So lots of people had an opportunity to participate in this analysis and in this process. In one of those amicus briefs, 19 states signed on as as members of that amicus brief,

because I think that everybody is anticipating that this isn't going to end in Colorado. This is one state, but there are already states, three other cases pending in other states in Maine and Michigan and Oregon right now. And so the other 19 more conservative red-leaning states are worried about the possibility of these cases being brought in their state. So they signed on to one of the amicus briefs as well, because they want to know what might happen in their own states with respect to this issue. But they also act like we don't even have precedent here. Go to my iPad. What happened on January 6, 2021, there was a New Mexico commissioner, a county commissioner,

who was barred from office because of his involvement in the insurrection. Now, in this particular case, he was found guilty of a misdemeanor. His name was Coy Griffin. And again, he was convicted in federal court of a misdemeanor. His name was Coy Griffin. And again, he was convicted in federal court of a misdemeanor for entering the Capitol grounds on January 6th. He was sentenced to 14 days

and given credit for time served. He was immediately removed. Now, they will say, well, he was found guilty. He was convicted. But the Constitution still doesn't require it. And so this notion that judges can't do this every single day in America, federal judges, appellate judges, the Supreme court, they make determinations based upon the wording of the Constitution, the wording of laws.

That's literally the job description. Right. It is their obligation to interpret the Constitution for us. But now it is the obligation, it will probably soon be the obligation of the United States Supreme Court to rule on this issue. And they have a very short window of opportunity in Colorado to find out what the Supreme Court is likely to rule on this issue. And they have a very short window of opportunity in Colorado to find out what the Supreme Court is likely to do on this, because the Secretary of State has to certify the ballot in Colorado by January the 5th. And so they have stayed, the Supreme Court has stayed their ruling until January the 4th, assuming that there will be an immediate attempt to appeal this, which gives the United States

Supreme Court a lot to do over the holidays for the next couple of weeks if they have to look at this issue. And I think that it's probably an issue that they don't want to weigh in on. I mean, the last time that they weighed in on something involving a national election in Bush versus Gore, it really damaged the reputation and the image of the court. And I think that it's almost a no-win situation for them. But they have to weigh in, and they have to rule on whether or not the Colorado Supreme Court was correct in deciding that, one, an insurrection had happened, two, that this section of the 14th Amendment applies to the president, and two, whether or not they were correct in actually making this ruling at all. They have to weigh in. It's important that they do so as soon as possible so that people don't

waste their votes, their primary votes. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling.

The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Voting for a candidate who may not be able to ultimately be on the ballot. So what I also find to be interesting when I hear people,

when I hear these MAGA people say that, well, these liberals on the court, this was an overreach. But the same MAGA vote, I thought they said that when it comes to the elections, we actually have state elections. So state Supreme Courts made rulings and they were angry. They were angry when the state Supreme Courts went against them in 2020, Pennsylvania, Michigan and others.

But they loved it when the state Supreme Courts in Ohio, other places, rule with them. So the Colorado Supreme Court was only making a determination based upon their state law and their presidential ballot. That's exactly right. There are two sort of tenets of the conservative legal point of view, and one is the strict construction of the Constitution, which is what this court did here, and states' rights, which is what this court protected here. This court protected the right of Colorado to determine who should be on its ballots, and they strictly construed the 14th Amendment, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. They really literally followed the very conservative roadmap here. They did not act as activist judges. They stayed within the letter of the law,

and they did what they needed to do in terms of providing a definition where one was needed on what an insurrection meant. They literally followed a very strict constructionist, conservative roadmap here, and yet they're still being criticized. Conservative Judge Michael Ludig, he was on the Fourth Circuit Appeals Court. He's been on MSNBC, CNN, and he had this to say. I'd love to get your thoughts on this. Check this out.

The individual justices of the Colorado supreme court brought honor to their court and as well to the state and federal judiciaries with their opinion tonight in this historic case. The court meticulously and methodically addressed seriatim, the many state issues the court. The court has been very thorough in addressing the

case and they have addressed seriatim the many state issues and federal constitutional issues that were involved in the case. They marshaled the support for each and every one of their decisions of state law and

federal constitutional law as well as any judge could do. Their opinion is unassailable. Under the objective law of the federal constitution and Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, the Supreme Court of the United States ought to affirm this decision today. All right, so, Judge Gilmour, when you look at this ruling and how they laid it out, I mean, do they present a real challenge to the conservatives on the Supreme Court

to try to get around it and come up with a way to keep Trump on the ballot with how they laid their argument out. Absolutely. Judge Lutig is right. He is a well-respected jurist in the federal judiciary. But I spent a lot of time today reading that, as you already mentioned, 213-page opinion to determine what the basis of their ruling was. It was extremely well laid out. It was thorough. It covered every potential issue that could be raised, from what is an insurrection, what is a president, what is an office of the United States, what would be the way that this law should be applied in this instance. They did not leave any stone unturned. And as I mentioned earlier, they had gave ample opportunity, one, for the Republicans of Colorado, other Republicans of Colorado, to intervene in the lawsuit. They allowed that. They allowed President Trump to intervene

in the lawsuit. They accepted and considered 14 amicus briefs, which are Friends of the Court briefs that indicate people that have a position on one side or the other. So they had lots of material to consider. They had lots of legal arguments to consider. They did not just narrowly look at just the two parties that were there. They looked at all of the people who wanted to weigh in on this. And there were a number of people. Professors wanted to weigh in on this. Other states wanted to weigh in on this. They looked at all of the issues that were raised in all of that briefing and came up with a very well-reasoned, very thorough opinion. Now, there were some dissents that were written from the conservative justices, from a couple of the conservative justices who did not agree, but they could not and did not

attempt to challenge the legal reasoning made by the court, because as Judge Ludick said, it is unassailable in this case. So the three dissenters, they didn't challenge the legal reasoning? They tried to challenge the interpretation, for instance, the interpretation of what was an insurrection. But they couldn't actually really challenge what the court found with respect to what the Constitution said or didn't say. The fact that the Constitution did not necessarily, didn't specifically say president, but that it had to apply to any office of the United States. So there was just really no way to challenge that ruling by the Colorado Supreme Court, even in the dissent. Well, I get a kick out of these conservatives and these MAGA people who believe that the presidency is so distinct that that, frankly, they are immune from any law

whatsoever, which is just utter nonsense. I mean, I mean, Richard Nixon wishes that was the case, and he learned a very valuable lesson, a unanimous decision against him. And so, hold on one second, going to break. I know my panelists can't wait to ask you some questions, folks. It has been talked about the last 24 hours. Colorado Supreme Court says, Trump, you're out of here. Now, let's see what the U.S. Supreme Court is going to do. Come back with our panel. Questions for Judge Vanessa Gilmore.

You're watching Rollerbutton Unfiltered right here on the Black Star Network. Back in a moment. Next, on The Black Table, with me, Greg Carr. We featured the brand new work of Professor Angie Porter, which, simply put, is a revolutionary reframing

of the African experience in this country. It's the one legal article everyone, and I mean everyone, should read. Professor Porter and Dr. Valetia Watkins, our legal roundtable team, join us to explore the paper that I guarantee is going to prompt a major aha moment in our culture. You crystallize it by saying, who are we to other people? Who are African people to others? Governance is our thing. Who are we to each

other? The structures we create for ourselves, how we order the universe as African people. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill.

NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes

one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up.

See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position, pregame to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at thisispretirement.org, brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council.

Next on The Black Tape, here on The Black Star Network. Hello, we're the Critter Fixers. I'm Dr. Bernard Hodges. And I'm Dr. Terrence Ferguson. And you're tuning in to... Roland Martin Unfiltered. All right, folks, time for our questions. Robert Petillo, you're first for Judge Vanessa Gilmore. Certainly.

And Judge Gilmore, thank you so much for all the information and enlightenment. One of the questions that I had is it seems that the Republican arguments in this case fall on two issues. One, the officer question, whether or not the presidency counts as being an officer. And then the question of the definition of insurrection, whether or not what President Trump took part in fits the definition of insurrection as the drafters of the 14th Amendment would have thought of it. Well, of course, often the Republicans argue for a strict interpretation of the text of the documents, as Scalia called for, but there also is this school of thought that you look towards the legislative history and the intent of the drafters of the provision. And going to the Supreme Court, do you think that these conservative justices will stick to the

doctrine they've talked about for the last 50 years of a strict textual construction of what is said and therefore bar Trump from the ballot? Or do you think they will contort themselves as they did in the Dobbs decision, as they did in the Scrutin of Action decisions, in order to change story decisis and the jurisprudence as listed? Well, you make a very good point in terms of the machinations that the Supreme Court has gone through recently in trying to overturn things that have 50 years or more of presidential history to come up with a decision that is that many would say is just the decision that they want and that it doesn't really comply with previous precedent. So whether or not they will follow their conservative leanings and be a strict constructionist with respect to this issue is anybody's guess. We know from very recent history, just as you indicated in Dobbs, that they did not stick with the presidential value of their own opinions of the Supreme Court. So who knows what might happen in this particular instance. But as I said earlier, the the Supreme Court. So who knows what might happen in this particular instance.

But as I said earlier, the Colorado Supreme Court decision in this case is so very strong, they would really have to completely ignore the fact that the Constitution does strictly apply, if you read it in its strictest sense, they would have to just completely ignore that to rule and overturn the Colorado Supreme Court, in my view. Rebecca. Thank you, Judge, so much for being here tonight. I graduated law school in 2007, and the only case we talked that was remotely close was Bush v. Gore. So I have a couple of questions here to piggyback off of Robert. Even if the court decides that there was not an insurrection that occurred on January 6th, is Trump's failure to act and failure to protect the Capitol, is that enough to prove that he did

something that was treasonous or was insurrection-like? Is that enough, or does there actually have to be a decision made whether or not there was an insurrection January 6th? If you look through and read through the Colorado Supreme Court opinion, they were painstaking in their analysis of what constitutes an insurrection. They went through every single thing he did, every single thing he didn't do. They talked about his actual statements, what he said to the crowd, how he encouraged them. And they talked about the fact that he spent a considerable amount of time over an hour completely ignoring what everyone knew was

happening, hoping that the people that he had incited would continue on with their efforts as depicted here. And so they went through a painstaking analysis of what could constitute an insurrection. And I think that their opinion in that regard is very strong. And really, frankly, it's unassailable. Well, I love how conservatives are trying to suggest that the president is not an officer of the United States. If he's not, then who is? I don't know how we get around that. Rebecca, go ahead. Yep. And then a quick follow-up, if I remember correctly, in Bush v. Gore, that particular decision was just supposed to be for that one time only. If the court decides that Trump can be on the ballot and they decide to

ignore, if they decide to go back on their federal society leanings, could they try to have it both ways by saying, oh, we're just making this ruling for this one time only, but this has nothing to do with what we think about as a strict constructionist viewpoint of the Constitution. You know, you make a very good point there. And particularly where here, where we already have this exact same case pending in three other states, in Maine, in Michigan, and in Oregon right now. And I think a threat that it could be filed in a number of other states where it has not yet been filed. And so I think you make a very good point in terms of whether or not they will say that this is something that is supposed to be applied narrowly only in this particular instance, or whether or not they might say that it has precedential value for future offices or for other offices.

This one, I think, though, is narrow enough because this is the only office that is not specifically delineated in the Constitution. All of the other offices, it says Congress, it says the Senate, it names other offices. It just doesn't specifically name the presidency. But it says any office of the United States that has to, of necessity, include the presidency. But it says any office of the United States that has to, of necessity, include the presidency. Scott. Thanks, Roland. Your Honor, but isn't the Colorado case different than the Michigan and Oregon cases? Because here you had an enabling statute that specifically allowed the plaintiffs to bring a lawsuit, not the Board of Election and Ethics, but the lawsuit that would challenge having someone on the ballot. And then secondly, the Supreme Court's going to have to deal with what the federal district court did, because the federal district court made a factual finding. That's a judge's obligation. But they said it didn't apply to the primary ballot. It may apply

to the general elections. We know states control federal elections, at least for the president, right? They control on the ballot. The parties do. So what's your response to those two issues? Because I mean, those two issues is how the Supreme Court will reverse this. I don't want them to, but I think those are the two power points or pressure points. But what do you think, even without an enabling statute in the other states that would allow somebody to file a lawsuit to protect the integrity of the ballot in their particular state. What is the remedy? How is it that people would not be able to figure out a way to pursue a legal action to try to determine who should legitimately be on the ballot in their state? I understand that

Colorado is a little bit different and that they did have the enabling statute. But the other states have got to have a mechanism or a way to allow people to pursue a challenge to persons being on the ballot that are not legitimately on the ballot. Well, as a former state party chair here in D.C., every jurisdiction certainly does. But here, I think the enabling statute, at least conservatives will latch on to that. But here's another point. If it's de novo review at the Supreme Court level, I think it is, then the Supreme Court can just simply disagree and make a different finding in regard to how you define insurrection and whether Trump's bad acts connote or denote conduct of insurrection. If they can simply disagree, they can reverse it, can't they? Yes, you're absolutely right about that.

And I guess we will just have to see. But I don't think we're going to have to wait long to see, do you? I think it's going to be a scenario where they give us an answer fairly quickly. That just means we need to start praying now. Let's not delay our prayers, ladies and gentlemen. All right. Final question for you, Judge Gilmore. What do you think this court will do?

Oh, my gosh. Hold on. Let me get my crystal ball out. Hold on one second. I mean, come on, Scott. I can't let her go without asking the question. And Scott, I ain't ask you.

Why didn't you ask? Pick on him. Pick on him. No, no. Listen. Listen. First of all, somebody already said in the group chat they said the judge is about to admonish Scott anyway if he keep disagreeing with her. So, Judge Gilmore, I hold him in contempt every week. I think we are just having a healthy discussion here.

But I think we all have a secret ballot here where we all vote. And then you come back, have us come back in a week, Roland, after they've ruled and see which one of us came closest to the right answer. That's a cop out. All right. Fine. All y'all send me a text message and then

I'll hold on to it. Then I'll see. So here's what I want. Okay. Here's what I want. I want all four of y'all to send me a text message and I want you the ruling and I want the number oh wow is it 9-0

the number of votes who votes how that's what the hell the number means that's the clarification if they reverse it'll be 6-3 hey Scott I ain't asked you to say it. I said text it. Well, I'm not afraid of my team.

See, you Capas are hard-headed. All right. Judge Gilmore, always a pleasure. I'll see you on the golf course when I come back home to Houston. Thank you. All right. Thanks a lot. All right, y'all.

Got to go to a break. We come back. We're going to talk about Taraji P. Henson and the whole issue of getting paid or lack thereof in Hollywood. We're going to talk about that. Man, we got all kinds of stuff we're going to talk about. I got my interview with Sir of the Baptist, a phenomenal interview. He participated in the McDonald's gospel tour. Trust me, it's a conversation

that y'all want to hear. The brother, his understanding of sound is unbelievable. We'll also talk about some federal lawsuits coming out of Connecticut. All right, folks, all of that and more right here on Rolling Mark Unfiltered

on the Black Star Network. Back in a moment. Grow your business or career with Grow with Google's wide range of online courses, digital training, and tools. Gain in-demand job skills with flexible online training programs designed to put you on the fast track to jobs in high-growth fields. No experience is necessary. Learn at your own pace. Complete the online certificate program on your own terms. Stand out to employers, get on a path to in-demand jobs, and connect with top employers who are currently hiring. Take one professional career certificate program, or all six.

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Hey, we're all in this together. So let's talk about it and see what kind of trouble we can get into. It's the culture. Weekdays at 3 only on the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Paula J. Parker. Trudy Proud on the Proud Family. I am Tommy Davidson. I play

Oscar on Proud Family Louder and Tommy Davidson. I play Oscar on Proud Family, Louder and Prouder. Hi, I'm Jo Marie Payton, voice of Sugar Mama on Disney's Louder and Prouder Disney+. And I'm with Roland Martin on Unfiltered. Two Connecticut families are suing the city of Bridgeport for the way police handled the murder investigation of two black women who were found dead in separate incidents on December 12, 2021. The lawsuit claims the police failed to investigate the death of Lauren Smith Fields and Brenda Lee Rawls because they were black women, and they also did not notify their families of the deaths in a timely manner. Attorney Darnell Crossland is representing both families in the separate federal lawsuits.

He joins us from Bridgeport. Darnell, glad to have you back. For folks who are not familiar with these two stories, one of them went on a date or met someone. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like, he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I

wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit AdoptUSKids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. I was online and was found dead, and the police just let the person walk, correct? Correct. That's correct. Thanks for following the story. I think you were here from the beginning when it first broke. And so, as you know, we have two years to file a lawsuit from the date of incident,

and we tried to work with the city. The mayor this week came out in the Connecticut Post, and he supported opposition. And opposition is playing. Our client, Lauren Smith-Fields, met a guy on Bumble who happened to be a white male, sort of the Gavin Petito kind of essence. And she went on a date with this guy. He came over to her house. He brought drinks, tequila, et cetera.

And then she was found bleeding from her nose and dead in the bed. The guy told the police they didn't have sex. That didn't be a truth because they found a used condom in the bathroom. They found the alcohol bottles. They found a place in disarray like it could have been a fight. And the police officer, who we think knew this guy said he's a nice guy, nothing to see here, let him go. That police officer was later suspended and two other guys were suspended as well. Then they got their jobs back and then they retired. And so we got no

relief here. So we filed a federal lawsuit last week in Bridgeport Federal Court claiming a violation of 1983 civil rights. And when we talk about, you know, these cases, I mean, not only not notifying the family, but literally just running a completely shoddy investigation. Absolutely. I mean, one thing we know for sure in these cases, even if it's a husband and wife and a wife is found dead, the first person who's a suspect is the husband. Did you have an argument? Was there life insurance?

You look to question the motives. And then you dial it back. In this particular case, they did nothing. They let this guy go. They didn't check him for DNA. They didn't question him. They did nothing. They let him go, and they told the family, quote, unquote, he. They did nothing. They let him go,

and they told the family, quote, unquote, he's a nice guy, and let him go. And so the investigation is terrible. We finally got the DEA to come involved, to get involved, to launch an investigation into the fentanyl that was found in her body. Because fentanyl, as you see in these reports, you can go through TSA, and if you touch something that's been exposed to fentanyl, you can have an overdose. So it could be injected into you. It could be placed on your item. So the DA is now investigating, but the city of Bridgeport did nothing and still has done nothing. Questions from the panel.

Scott, you're first. Yeah. Thank you, Roland. How cooperative have the police been? And have you reached out to the feds are the DEA. So the DEA finally came in, and now they're investigating strictly as it relates to fentanyl, because in the country, fentanyl has caused a lot of issues. So the DEA is interested in finding what was the source of the fentanyl that was found in her body. And so we're pleased at least they're looking for that, because that might lead them to where it came from. But in terms of how cooperative the police officers were, I'll give you an example. Typically, we watch television, CSI, crime scene investigation.

The police department never came and dusted the place. They never came in the white suits until we forced them to come and collect items. When they collected the items, they're supposed to send them to Meriden, Connecticut, which is the crime lab, and they get a number. I called the laboratory to see what items were submitted, and they said, oh my God, are you calling about the young lady who was found dead? I said, yeah, do you know about that? Yeah, we saw it on the news, they said. But there's been no submission by the Vigilante Police Department. I said, what do you mean no submission? These are fungible items that have to be put in freezers and like the condom. And they said, no, they've given nothing.

And up to this day, two years later, nothing has been submitted to the lab. And that's why we're in federal court. Wow. Rebecca. I'm sorry, Scott. Go ahead. Go ahead. Real quick.

No. You know, these investigations are sensitive. As a former prosecutor and a former homicide prosecutor, time is of the essence. Keeping the death scene preserved and preserving DNA and whatever you take from the scene. I don't know how you fix that, though. I mean, I'm glad you're suing, but, you know, you and I both know once that evidence isn't preserved, it's hard to get it back and hard to put together what happened, but more importantly, a murder prosecution, right? Well, I hate to go back to television, but what you're touching on is what we know to show the first 48. So in the first 48, things

disappear, and it's hard to, you know, those are vital times. So time is as the essence of the essence, as you said. So we can't make this go back. But we're suing for $30 million for each family because this is intentional. It's negligent. My client's mom goes to treatment every day. She wakes up in nightmares. I mean, you can't imagine how, what you go through.

And money can't make you whole again. But as we see in the movie, The Burial, Willie Gary, which is my movie I just watched, you know, can't sit back and let this stuff happen. Yeah, but have you figured out why they did this? It's simple to explain the way negligence. Okay, they were negligent. They didn't care because these were black women. I got it. But there's usually something more than that in these cases. Have you found any other motivational reason why they were

just extremely negligent here? Well, two things. One, there's people who could be intentional and there's people who could be implicit. We think Detective Cronin may have had a connection with the suspect. And so we requested his cell phone records to see who he called within that first couple of hours after the incident. And they have not turned that over. And so he's, we think, a little more culpable that he retired, strangely enough. Well, the city of Richport, they could be implicit in his diabolical behavior if he knew somebody. So the Freedom of Information Act, inside addition, everybody filed these FOIA requests. They've turned nothing over, and then City of Bridgeport got fined for not complying with FOIA. So the city is in trouble, and we're on top of it.

Rebecca? Is there a way to civilly go after that particular officer's retirement pension? Is there any way to hold him accountable at all? Like what can actually be done? Well, the strange thing about that, we know that people retire so that they can protect their pension. So meaning that if he stayed on the job, then his pension, he could lose his pension if he's fired or found to be in trouble or be liable for this. He could lose his pension. So officers who feel that their pension is in danger, they run for the hills. And my understanding is once they run for the hills, we can't sue him and attach his pension at this point because he's secured it by leaving. But, you know, like we stated, Bumble, we named them in the lawsuit, and they have since taken

remedial measures to make their platform more safe. But we feel that they're also liable for allowing this type of behavior to continue on their platforms where young people are found dead. So his pension might be protected, but we're going after the city, we're going after Bumble, and this family can never be made whole again. But we need them to be compensated for this behavior. We also changed the law in Connecticut. So now there's a new notification law.

If a cop doesn't notify the family within the first 24 hours, that they lose their post-certification to be cops. So we were able to do that in the legislature as a part of this lawsuit or this journey, I should say. Robert? Given all the information that you've uncovered in this case, I've noticed a pattern around the country of police simply not taking the deaths of African-American women as seriously as the deaths of other individuals. I think we all know about

the maternal mortality rates, the racial abuse against African American women. What can we do to start the pushing law enforcement to really take Black women who are missing, who are victims of crimes, more seriously and putting that first 48 hours of work in so that we get to get a jump start on solving any of these cases instead of them becoming cold cases down the line? Well, that's a great question. And I think the fact that we've convened here today says that this is how we start to give voice to this. Gwen Eiffel, rest in peace, coined the phrase missing white woman syndrome, Gabby Petito case. You know, they go crazy if it's a white woman. And had this tables been turned where it was a white woman found dead

and Tyrone was in that apartment, you best believe things would have been different. So we have to stand up. And counsel, you're a former prosecutor. You know, it's not easy going to federal court and standing up and saying we're filing a lawsuit. You know, people typically walk away. And there's not a lot of money. It's not like a car accident case where there's an insurance policy. But we put hours and hours.

And Roland, again, was here from the beginning. This is two years now. And so we have to fight back by going to the federal court and saying enough is enough. Black women deserve to be protected. And we need to have panels like this and brothers like Roland Martin to bring us on and this is to answer your question, what we need to do. Step up, stand up and speak up.

All right then. We'll appreciate it. Keep us impressed what happens. We will. All right. Thanks so much. Darnell, thanks a lot. Folks, we've come back. We'll talk to Raji Henson saying, yo, what's up, black women? Why we got to keep not getting

paid our fair value? Also, Reverend Dr. William J. Barber weighs in on the proposed menthol ban of cigarettes, and so I'll have that for you as well. You're watching Roller Markdown, a filter on the Black Studies Network. Download the Black Studies Network app, Apple Phone, Android Phone, Apple TV, Android TV,

Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. Be sure to watch the Black Star Network 24-hour streaming channel available on Amazon News. Go to Amazon Fire, check us out. You can also tell Alexa, play news from Black Star Network. You can also watch us on Plex TV, Amazon Freebie, and go to the live news grid on Amazon Prime Video. You'll watch us right there, right next to MSNBC,

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Make it out to the Black Star Network. Cash Shop, Dollar Sign, RM Unfiltered, PayPal, R. Martin Unfiltered. Venmo is RM Unfiltered. Sale, Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about

what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott.

And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown.

We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. We'll see you next time. season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We gotta make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up

to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position. Pre-game to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at thisispretirement.org brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council. Be right back. Hatred on the streets.

A horrific scene. A white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence. You will not. White people are losing their damn minds. There's an angry pro-Trump mob storming the U.S. Capitol. We're about to see the rise of what I call white minority resistance. We have seen white folks in this country who simply cannot tolerate black folks voting. I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of violent denial.

This is part of American history. Every time that people of color have made progress, whether real or symbolic, there has been what Carol Anderson at Emory University calls white rage as a backlash. This is the rise of the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Boys. America, there's going to be more of this. There's all the Proud Boys, guys. This country is getting increasingly racist in its behaviors and its attitudes

because of the fear of white people. The fear that they're taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women. This is white people. Hey, what's up, y'all? I'm Devon Franklin. It is always a pleasure to be in the house. You are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Stay right here. Harry Kiels has been missing from D.C. since November 3rd.

The 42-year-old is 5'15 inches tall, weighs 175 pounds, has a bald head and black beard. He was last seen wearing a black shirt, black pants, and black and white gold sneakers. He also wears glasses. Anyone with information about Harry Kiels should urge to call the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department Youth and Family Services Division, 202-578-6768 202-576-6768 202-576-6768 Folks, civil rights leaders and national black organizations

want the Biden-Harris administration to end the delay in ruling to ban menthol cigarettes that pose a serious health threat to black folks. The Biden administration delayed the ban ban menthol cigarettes that pose a serious health threat to black folks. The Biden administration delayed the ban on menthol cigarettes until March after getting lots of pushback from other civil rights organizations, including some members of National Organization

of Black Law Enforcement Executives, as well as the National Action Network, Reverend Alex Harper's group. Well, Tuesday, Reverend Dr. Bishop William Barber, president of Repairs of the Breach, spoke to the White House by phone to let them know his thoughts on this. He said delay means more deaths, more deaths of black people, and especially black children.

We have seen political delay on voting rights, delay on living wages by Congress, and no more pushing and now delay of a moral rule to regulate menthol. I grew up in eastern North Carolina in tobacco country. I was a part of the group of poor rural boys and girls that tobacco growers use, paying the lowest wage possible to crop and prime tobacco. Menthol is a drug. Menthol, a drug, is a health equity issue in the United States. 60 percent, 26 million of African-Americans are poor or low age. 30 percent, 56, 66, 66 million, 30 percent of whites are poor or low age.

Poverty is the fourth leading cause of death. Menthol is targeted and marketed, especially towards black and brown people and the poor. The tobacco industry's predatory marketing has had a devastating impact on the health of black Americans. Tobacco use is the number one cause of preventable death among black Americans, claiming 45,000 black lives every year. Tobacco use is a major contributor to three of the leading causes of death among black Americans, heart disease, cancer, and stroke.

And black, and of course, and black. I watched a friend after friend get addicted to cigarettes and die from cancer only as big tobacco worked harder to get more and more addicted for profits. Americans die from these conditions at far higher rates than other Americans. Folks, African Americans, I'm sorry, die at a higher rate than other Americans. Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in the black community.

Almost nine out of ten African Americans who smoke use menthol cigarettes. Some have alleged that a menthol ban targets the choice of black Americans who smoke and could lead to increased police interaction, even though these policies regulate retailers and others in the industry. Tobacco industry misinformation supports this claim. This is a tobacco industry tactic that cynically exploits the very real and traumatic issues of police brutality and mass incarceration endured by the black community. Pass voting rights so we can elect politicians who will pass police reform. If you don't want people doing side hustles for money,

then pass living wages. But don't tell black people or poor people you have to accept death and being poisoned in order to prevent death and brutality at the hands of police. Somebody paid a whole lot of money to come up with that lie. We can't let tobacco industry money put lies and menthol in our community. And he's absolutely right. A federal judge gives the green light to remove Arlington National Cemetery's Confederate Memorial. U.S. District Judge Beryl A. Howell in D.C. said the claim by groups such as Defend Arlington and Save Southern Heritage Florida at the reconciliation monument's removal would disturb grave sites. It was mirrorless. Howell found that

because the Army made plans for removal known three years, the emergency nature of the plaintiff's request is one of plaintiff's own creation. In fact, the judge even visited the site to see how there was no impact on the other graves. The statue was erected in 1914 and features a bronze woman

wearing a crown of olive leaves atop a 32 foot pedestal. But they also have slaves on their monument. It will be removed by Friday. Boy, I tell you, these Republicans conservatives love fighting for these monuments.

Rebecca? That's not a side of history that you want to be on. It doesn't make sense. There's nowhere else in the world where you can have a national cemetery and have those who committed treason against that said country glorified. Like to me, it dishonors those who gave their life to this country in support of protecting freedoms in this country, both here and abroad. So to even have that at Arlington just simply does not make sense. And once again, I don't understand why these Republicans want to be on this side of history. You cannot go to Germany and not see

statutes or memorials. And that's a common example that people use in making this analogy with why the heck do we have Confederate statues on public land using public funds? That simply does not make sense. It's not something to celebrate if anything, it's something for us

to learn from and never do again. Scott, they love talking about, oh, it was Democrats who supported Jim Crow, who supported slavery, who supported all this other stuff. I'm like, yeah, but y'all are them today. Yeah, that was a long time ago.

I mean, it's ridiculous. I think my colleague, Rebecca, said it best. You can't go to Germany and do all this. And the South lost. And they should have lost. You know, America needs to be in therapy. I mean, you go back 200, 400 years,

whether it's slavery, whether it's the civil rights, human rights, whether it's the Civil War. I mean, we need to be in therapy because some of this, it's just ridiculous. I don't have, that's my comment. Completely ridiculous.

I agree with Rebecca. Well, Robert, you're there in Atlanta where y'all have to deal with that massive, massive racist monument known as Stone Mountain. And they love touting that. And again, if people go there, what you see with that, that is an absolute monument to some of the nation's biggest domestic terrorists in American history.

This here is an image of that racist monument. Well, two points, Roland. One, I need conservatives to make up their mind on the timetable we're dealing with here. Because when we talk about reparations for African Americans, oh, this was so long ago. We don't need to be revisiting history. We don't need to be dredging up the past. Why are we so fascinated and fixated on the past? That's what we always hear from conservatives. When we talk about fixing past discrimination with remedial action and affirmative action in the here and now, they say, well, the cure for past discrimination is not current discrimination. Why are you so obsessed with all these things that happened 150 and 200 years ago?

Okay, fine. But then when it's time to take down the statues, they say, well, why are you trying to destroy our history? This is who we are. This is who we are as a nation. This is what we built up. They have to decide which side of that argument they want to exist on. Do you want to be on the side that says that this stuff is old and antiquated and not who America is anymore? Or do you want to be on the side of history that says we need to

understand and learn from this history, and that learning has to take place through reparations for the Black community? I'll make you a trade. You can keep all the damn Confederate statues you want and give us our reparations today. I will just walk right past the statute with my money. But if you don't want to do one, you have to give up the other. Secondarily, on the issue of Stone Mountain, there have been suggestions over the years to, well, just put an American flag over Stone Mountain. Who's going to have the money to remove the carvings? It is essential for us as a society to remove the carvings, both on Stone Mountain and on Mount Rushmore.

10,000 years from now, after the entirety of human civilization has gone to ash, after maybe even the human species is destroyed, Stone Mountain is carved into granite. It will still be there. Mount Rushmore will still be there. People show back up on this planet 100,000 years from now, they will look at Stone Mountain the same way we look at the Sphinx in Egypt and think that this is the hallmark of a great civilization. Indeed, the only thing remaining of what America is in 10,000 years could indeed be Stone Mountain. And unless we want that to be the indelible mark that America leaves on the future civilizations on Earth, we have to destroy that monument. It's not enough to simply cover it up. It's not enough to simply ignore it. It must be destroyed. And of course, it is a monument 800 feet tall to three of the

biggest domestic terrorists in the country. That is Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Stonewall Jackson. And unfortunately, when you go through Virginia, a lot of these places, they got roads named after all of these people because they just are holding on, holding on. All right, y'all, we'll come back. We're going to talk about money. Taraji P. Henson not happy at all with fighting the battle when it comes to pay equity in Hollywood. We'll discuss that in our segment, Where's Our Money? Plus, my conversation with Sir the Baptist,

one of the bright new stars of gospel music. He is a fascinating brother, and wait till y'all hear him talk about how sensitive his ears are to sound. Blew me away when he said he could hear the key of a water dropping in the shower. Yo, crazy. You don't want to miss the conversation.

We'll be right back on Rolling Martin Unfiltered on the Black Star Network. When you talk about blackness and what happens in black culture, We'll be right back on Rolling Martin Unfiltered on the Black Studies Network. When you talk about blackness and what happens in black culture, we're about covering these things that matter to us, speaking to our issues and concerns. This is a genuine people-powered movement. A lot of stuff that we're not getting, you get it, and you spread the word. We wish to plead our own cause to long have others spoken for us.

We cannot tell our own story if we can't pay for it. This is about covering us. Invest in black-owned media. Your dollars matter. We don't have to keep asking them to cover our stuff. So please support us in what we do, folks. We want to hit 2,000 people. $50 this month. Rates $100,000. We're behind $100,000 people. $50 this month. Waits $100,000.

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Zelle is Roland at RolandSMartin.com. We'll be right back. I'm the producer of Proud Family, Louder and Prouder. You're watching Roland Martin on Killed. We've been frozen out. Facing an extinction level of battle. We don't fight this fight right now. You're not going to have Black Army. All right, you'll often hear me talking about the battle we are always engaged in when it comes to Black-owned media, fighting for resources, fighting for advertising. But we see this battle in all fields.

Where right now in this country, a black college graduate actually makes on average less than a white person with a high school diploma. Well, Taraji P. Henson had an interview with Sirius XM Radio. They've been out promoting the Color Purple Opens Christmas Day. And she talked about how hard this is. And she broke down and said how she's almost even thought about leaving the business.

Listen to this. Are you thinking about it? I'm just tired of working so hard, being gracious at what I do, getting paid a fraction of the cost. I'm tired of hearing my sister say the same thing over and over. You get tired. I hear people go, you work a lot. Well, have to. The math ain't math. And when you start working a lot, you know, you have a team.

Big bills come with what we do. We don't do this alone. The fact that we're up here is a whole entire team behind us. They have to get paid. So when you hear someone saying, oh, such and such made $10 million, no, that didn't make it to their account. Know that off the top, Uncle Sam is getting 50%. Okay? So do the math.

Now we have $5 million. Your team is getting 30% or whatever your team is off of what you grossed, not after what Uncle Sam took. Now do the math. So I just, I'm only human, and it seems every time I do something and I break another glass ceiling, when it's time to renegotiate, I'm at the bottom again, like I never did what I just did, and I'm just tired. I'm tired.

I'm tired. I get that. It wears on you, you know? Because what does that mean? What is that telling me? What is it telling me? Yeah yeah and what does it tell me yeah you know and if i can't fight for them coming up behind me then what the fuck am i doing i'm sorry yeah a number a number of actresses have commented on this. Viola Davis oftentimes is talked about this year.

In fact, Taraji Henson in another discussion says she almost walked away from the color purple over the issue of pay. One of the things that people don't realize, and what she's talking about there, is even when she's talking about $10 million, first of all, it ain't that many people getting those big paydays. When you're talking about black10 million, first of all, it ain't that many people getting those big paydays. When you're talking about black actresses, they are oftentimes not even the lead. And so I've seen other people post that sometimes some of these folks be getting $250,000, $300,000, $400,000 for a role, and so now you talk about 40%, 50% off the top for taxes,

business managers, lawyers, agents, publicists, and they might be left with $75,000, $100,000. And then guess what? You may only have one role for an entire year. And so she's talking about, again, the battle that black people have to play in Hollywood to be paid properly. The thing here, Scott, is that this isn't just even a black female issue in Hollywood. We see this for black engineers, black lawyers, black doctors, black accountants, entrepreneurs. I mean, it is a function of this society always wanting to pay black people less for our talent. Yeah. System of racism, right?

I don't believe, and I fight for my income as an equity partner at a big law firm every year, every 15 months. And, you know, you get tired of arguing that someone that doesn't look like me, who has the same book of business I have, gets paid more than me. Roger Hinton is right. You get tired of fighting.

You know, when you're on top, right, and you're eating at the highest level in your profession, what you don't see, and what she's really talking about is how hard it is to be extraordinary as a person, as someone who happens to be a person of color. Because I compete against everybody. She competes against everybody, not just black people, but to stay on top. Under underneath that iceberg, you see the pain and the disappointment and the hard work and how tired you are just to fight to stay on top and compete against those that don't look like you and to have to fight to get paid as much or to fight to get paid as much as possible. That in comparison, right, the talent around you that doesn't look like you isn't

smarter than you, isn't better than you, doesn't work harder than you, isn't more extraordinary than you, isn't more excellent than you. And so the fight that she's talking about is not the fight for excellence, but the fight to be paid for your excellence as someone that happens to be a person of color. It's the melanin in my skin. That's the challenge with people that don't look like me. Can they value me as they value themselves, or does the melanin in my skin

get in the way of my excellence and equality? That's really the challenge for all of us who are at the top of our profession, whether it's Taraji, me, or my colleagues on this show. This was an interview that she did with the SAG After Foundation, where

she also talked about this. Here, listen to this. Best acting business decision that you made. So whether that be representation-wise... Firing everybody after Cookie. Everybody had to fucking go. Where is my deal? Where is my commercial?

Cookie was top of the fashion game. Where is my endorsement? What did you have set up for after this? That's why y'all haven't seen me in so long. They had nothing set up. All they wanted was another cookie show. And I said, I'll do it, but it has to be right. The people deserve...

She's too beloved for y'all to fuck it up. And so when they didn't get it right, I was like, well, that's it. And then they had nothing else. You're all fucking fired. I mean... I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

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Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way.

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a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position. Pre-game to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at thisispretirement.org. Brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council I'm going to say this though It took me years to get there Because I did have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome Talk about it

Baby, it's very real You are the prize. Don't you ever forget that. You are the talent. You are there. So the thing here, Rebecca, which I think is just what was most fundamental for people,

is you have to understand your worth and you have to be willing to walk away from certain things if you believe you are not being paid fairly. So Taraji referenced when she played Cookie in Empire, and I just want to note that Terrence Howard just filed a lawsuit over the wages that he received while he was in Empire. And he's in part blaming the Creative Artists Agency, who was representing him at the time. And he's making the claim that they weren't fairly representing his interests with his role on Empire. That's one thing. We've also heard Steve Harvey talk about in the past,

instead of paying your team 30%, get a contract attorney that's actually doing the deal instead of having three or four different representatives in that deal as a way to cut down an overhead. But something I also want to mention here is that Monique exposed this. You know, years ago, she exposed it and she received a lot of ridicule. She talked about she only got $50,000 for her role in the movie Precious. And then she was asked to do stuff outside of her contract. And she claimed that she was asked by both Oprah and Tyler Perry to go and promote the film, even though that wasn't in her contract. And she said, no, I'm not doing that because that's not within my contract. And then when she went up against

Netflix, when Netflix, I believe at the time, offered the comedian Amy Schumer a $20 million deal. And the deal for Monique, I think, wasn't even $2 million. And, you know, people do have to speak up because this happens all the time. It doesn't just happen to Black women. It also happens to Black men of where Black folks in America, in our society, we are expected just to show up, show out, work twice as hard, be overly stressed, make a way out of no way, but then we aren't properly compensated. So we do have to figure out, so how do we, is there opportunities for us to take agency and actually to negotiate our worth?

Do we need the greater Black community to help and support when these things happen and do a protest, do an economic boycott? But as a community, if one fails, we all fail. And we have to have that viewpoint of solidarity if we want to make sure that Black folks in America are actually getting their worth. Because if we don't demand it, it will be never given to us. We have to take it. But we also have to understand, Robert, who is the show and who is the business? And I think part of the problem that often happens is people rely on others to do things. And I totally understand what Taraji was saying there.

You know, where were the fashion deals? Where were the commercial? Where were those different things? And that's also putting your career in somebody else's hands. There was another actress, I'm not going to name, who fired her whole team. Folks were turning deals down that she wasn't being made aware of. And we were having this conversation, and she was asking me, you know, how do I run my business? I said, first of all, you just used the proper phrase.

I run my business. I am not going to. And, in fact, the singer Severn and I had this conversation when she went independent, when she was running her business. I think for so many people, what too often happens is they're letting other people control that. And as Taraji said, oh, well, if I'm not taking deals,

y'all ain't getting your percentage. But you got to be challenging those folks on what are you actually doing? How are you earning? If you're an agent, oh, you're just not going to sit here and feast on the deal that I signed. No, what are the other deals

that you're going out and getting? I remember firing the very prominent agency and I said, you ain't brought me shit. I said, I'm out here cultivating relationships and you ain't set up one meeting. Nah, y'all ain't getting a feed of my stuff because you ain't done a damn thing.

Too many people, whether they're in media or entertainment, Robert, refuse to understand and learn the business of the business. They're too focused on the show and show business.

Well, you're completely correct. I think black families and the black community in general, they teach us how to struggle best. And it's not an indictment against, it's the best that we know. They teach you to work twice as hard to get half as far. They teach you to make the best out of anything you can get. You need to show up first, work harder than everybody and be the last one out the door. And we are great at doing exactly that. But what we don't talk about, what we don't teach the next generation, is how to work and monetize that. As you said, the business side of all these apparatuses.

And because of this, it's been far too easy throughout the years to, as CeeLo said, get them a nigga, a brand new nigga, have brand new tattoos, even if he's feet bigger. Because they know they can replace you. Just as when Terrence Howard was in the Iron Man movie, he came back and asked for more money for Iron Man 2. They replaced him with Don Cheadle and that like nothing happened.

They didn't even explain that they were switching black dudes. They just showed off a different black dude for the next 10 years. And then, hold up, hold up, hold up. And then hit Don and said, you gotta decide by 5 o'clock. Don was at his child's birthday party, and Don said, well, damn,

can I at least get 24 hours? And they were like, yeah, okay, fine. But they put this, like, no, you got to decide yes or no at this number now. He was literally at his child's birthday party. And if he hadn't, they would have rolled it straight down their roller nets, whoever the next black dude was, and they would have gave them that role. They don't see us as being individualized talents. They don't see us as being individualized artists who are creating and who have an independent value.

It's almost as if they feel they need to check a box. It is, well, who is the next most famous black dude? Even right now with Jonathan Majors being fired by Marvel, there's all sorts of talks about who the next black dude is they're going to replace his character with, as opposed to recognizing what he individually brought to that role and saying, well, Ezra Miller gets second chances and Robert Downey Jr. gets second chances

and Amanda Heard gets second chances. Why didn't he get a second chance? And this goes in all fields. Let's talk about media and news that all of us here can talk about. You can go on one of these major networks. You can be the most prepared individual on earth, and they will have you debating the runner up from Miss Ohio about immigration reform or something. And you can run circles around them every time they put you on.

You can just knock them right in the mouth every time they put you on. But then two or three months later, when they're announcing who the new contributors are going to be, they're going to be the little white girl who's a runner-up from East Ohio because she has a smile and wears blonde hair, etc.

There's golds into every field. They expect us to be the sharecroppers of American society. And until we have a bargaining chip to put ourselves forward, until we have the economic ability to affect markets the way that other groups do, we will continue to be on the chitlin circuit of American economics and politics. Well, I'll say this here. First of all, Kiki Palmer posted this message regarding this whole issue. Go to my iPad. She said, the entertainment industry is just like any other industry. We run businesses to keep our brands afloat, us being the brand business.

And it's that team of company members that decrease any assumed large sum. This includes monthly expenses just like everyone else. In the words of Biggie, more money, more problems. She then went on to say, this is why no one can really have one job anymore. People working outside of the entertainment industry may do Uber Eats, Postmates, accountant part-time, substitute teaching.

She says, for an entertainment career, you may be like me, an actor, influencer, host, speaker, et cetera. I keep a job because I have to. Ha ha. We all work multiple jobs, and we may like some, but also because we have to. To be successful and live in America, it's literally this way because of the cash to expense ratio. This is why entrepreneurship is so important, but that in itself is expensive. Having one job for anyone is not really an option,

no matter what industry, unless you are like the top, top, top earner. And I mean, that's like Bill Gates and them, I suppose. I don't know because I can't relate. Ha ha. So let me say this, which is, I think, what all of you have talked about and what it requires. And I think too often, to your point, Robert, these are not the conversations that we have. And the conversations that we don't have is understanding, Robert, these are not the conversations that we have.

And the conversations that we don't have is understanding, again, I'm going back to the business of the business. I'm going back to the notion of multiple revenue streams. I'm talking about when you're in these situations, Scott, you get it. You can't have a successful law firm and think you're going to survive having one client. If all of a sudden that client gets ticked off and moves their business, now you're screwed. The job is to go get multiple clients. Has to be the same thing. If you're talking about entertainment, you've got to be thinking about movies and television and, yes, speeches and social media, things along those lines. And I think so many of us, when you look at these

record deals that people accept, so many of us, we take bad deals because we're so enamored with, oh my God, I signed a deal with, I signed a deal with Sony, I signed a deal with Columbia, with Arista, I signed

a deal with Motown. But a lot of our people, we see them on TV once unsung, they ain't read the contract. Never saw it, never read it, and they don't even realize, Kirk Franklin did an interview the other day, how in his early deals, he signed away 100% of his publishing.

100%. Because he had a lawyer who was an entertainment lawyer. They were like just, they just heard a lawyer. Like, well, you could do this whole deal. So it's understanding all of that. But the thing that people also got to do is have a focus, understanding is me, Inc. What I mean by that is, I look at every, Oprah talked about this here.

And I agree with her. I look at every damn invoice that comes across my desk. And I'll be like, what's this? I ain't paying this. I got somebody right now who's inventorying all of my equipment in there. Because you know what? I'm not going to be paying for shit that get broken in 2024.

If you got it and it worked, and it come back broke, your ass paying for it. Now, I guess stuff happens, but the job is to take care of stuff because ain't no company buying a replacement. It's me. I'm the company.

And a lot of people don't take ownership of their lives. And so I dare say to any entertainer, anybody who's in any of these fields, I don't care what it is, learn the business of your business. Otherwise, you're out here busting your butt and you're sending other people's children to school and they getting paid and then you gonna be left

with nothing and people saying, oh my God, I love that show you were in. I love that movie you were in. I love that movie you were in. Terrence Howard talked about it. He got paid, was it 12 grand for Hustle & Flow? It was an independent film. I mean, these things actually happen. Here's the question.

Did you get paid on the back end? And guess what he also said? He said that he hasn't been getting any residuals from the music because the folks who produced the movie, they said the song was the artist DJ, his character, which meant they've been getting paid, not him. We had better learn to read the fine print of these deals as well. And I'm going to say this last thing right here, which is hard, Scott, for some people. We got to get over white validation. We got to understand that you might want to go sign a book deal,

but if you a celebrity, you could actually probably make more money pushing that book yourself than, frankly, going out there, getting a big advance, and all you're doing is working to pay that sucker back to that publisher. You're working your butt off to sell them copies for them. It's also meaning owning your content. It means you being able to license deals as well. It means you going out there to broker deals. Not everybody's going to understand the business.

Not everybody wants to be a producer, wants to be an owner. I understand that. But what I'm saying is this. The worst thing in the world is if we, as black people, if we are always the show and somebody else is the business. Scott,

real quick. You've got to sign your own checks and you've got to write your own checks. But Roman, whatever the industry is, I don't think you can just be an artist or a lawyer. You got to understand the business of your business.

You've got to. I'm not a lawyer, but I read my contracts. As a matter of fact, I was catching stuff and I was like, come here. This line right here. What that mean? Right. No, no.

Well, actually, I was interpreting the line, and I was challenging my agent and my lawyer going, how y'all miss that? And I read line by line by line, So I knew every piece of that contract. And I've represented, watch this, I've represented my share of athletes and entertainers over 32 years in big law. It's not my specialty, but I've certainly done a lot of those deals. Let me tell you something, Roland.

If I hear one more time from someone in the business, in your business or in the sports business, well, what do you think? Well, I haven't read the contract. Should I sign it, Scott, or should I not? Should you sign it or should you not? That's a business decision. I do law. You're going to read it line by line, and I'll answer all your questions, right? But you've got cats out here so much in the game and love the game that they don't even want to read the contract. They want a lawyer or

an agent to tell them, should I sign it? Did you review it? If you say I should sign it, then I'm going to sign it, right? I need the money. Literally, literally. It's ridiculous. You're going to be in this business and not read a contract that's going to pay you for a short period of time. We call it short money. Right. That's why you got multiple streams of income. Even if you're a lawyer, you need to be invested in real estate. If you don't get into the media and do commentary, you need to get paid for your commentary. A lot or a little or whatever the case might be, because you only got so long in this life to make money. And for me, as an equity partner in a law firm, I don't get a pension.

When I'm done, when I hang it up, I'm done. Right. I got to take care of my money. Right. I got to invest in real estate. I got to invest in other businesses and stuff to take pieces. Because if I don't, at 70 or 65 when I hang it up, that's it. I'm living on what I've made and what I've saved, period. And so many professionals are like that. So you're a business. You got to learn your business, period. Well, I'll tell you what. When I was at TV One, we were doing the show News One Now, and every time we would go shoot something,

we had to hire an outside production company, and that was always a cost. And I'm looking at the budget, and I'm realizing, man, look, we're not going to be able to have money to go do this stuff later in the year. So I was actually buying my own equipment while I was there. And I told somebody this the other day who called me. They were complaining about a deal. And I said, stop. I said, I need you to look at them as your personal venture capitalist. They're going to fund your actual business. And that's really the momentum. So when I was at CNN and TV One, I had CNN, TV One, Tom Joyner,

had my own speeches in books, so I had five revenue streams. And I had this white producer at CNN who was kind of very paternalistic with his tone. I said, say, bro, hold up. I'm going to let you know. Y'all are just number three out of five revenue streams. You ain't even one or two. I said, if anything happens, hell, I'll just do this right here.

Well, when I was at TV One, I bought my own cameras and stuff. And so then I said, all right, I'm going to do a deal with y'all. I ain't going to charge y'all no kid fee for my cameras and stuff, for my cameras and my switcher. I said, but if we do any projects using my gear, I co-own the content. Now, why did I do that? I knew the show was going to get canceled one day. But guess what?

They also, when people call, I think we did a Frankie Beverly Mays special. All of the concert video in the special, I shot. So when somebody called them to license their footage, they had to call me too. That's understanding the business of the business.

Alright folks, appreciate it. Robert, Rebecca, Scott, thank you so very much for being on today's show. Thanks a bunch. Y'all have a fantastic Christmas and New Year's show. Thanks a bunch. Y'all have a fantastic Christmas and New Year's. Enjoy it. Don't party too hard.

I'm sure, Scott, you'll be doing something with your little Kappa brothers. Please limit the number of times y'all drop your canes. Yo, yo. Yeah, okay, whatever. All right, okay, that's enough of that yeah that's enough for that you know alpha's your daddy all right i appreciate it thanks a bunch y'all enjoy folks when we come back um uh first of all uh we're gonna come back with my sir the baptist interview y'all you don't want

to miss this interview uh and so of course and then I'm going to be out for a couple of weeks doing vacation, as I always do. We're going to come back. Again, my conversation with Sir the Baptist, it is a fascinating discussion. You don't want to miss it. That's next. Business or career with Grow with Google's wide range of online courses, digital training and tools. Gain in-demand job skills with flexible online training programs designed to put you on the fast track to jobs in high growth fields. No experience is necessary.

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There are 1,000 scholarships available. Grow with Google and J. Hood and Associates. Be job ready and qualify for in-demand jobs. Thank you. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Ad free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people,

real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. The paper ceiling, the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree.

It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at TaylorPaperCeiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. All right, folks. Sir the Baptist, remember he won a Grammy. He's working with the Tennessee State University Marching Band. He has this ambitious project when it comes to other HBCUs. We talked about it when I sat down with him at the House of Hope in Chicago, where they were rehearsing for the McDonald's Inspiration Celebration Gospel Tour.

It's a really fascinating conversation. This brother is a genius when it comes to sound. Here's our conversation. Sir, you have had, man, one heck of a year. Yeah. It's been good. Yeah, it's been great. Talk about, again, History Made at the Grammys.

The Tennessee State folks were hyped. Yeah. Everybody participated in the whole deal because it was just a totally unique project. Yeah, yeah. I was introduced to TSU through Larry Jenkins, Professor Larry Jenkins. And he kind of just took me around and let me hear the music. I was actually looking for the sound. I went on this sound run because I kind of like chase sound. So I was looking for Joshua and the Walls of Jericho.

And I found that in a marching band because they were marching around the Walls of Jericho and playing horns. So to me, that's a marching band. So I went to HBCU to try to find that sound. And I found a sound and it was at TSU. You visited other HBCUs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before that, I went to Howard. I went to, man, Alabama A&M, like a bunch of schools. But you knew in your head the exact sound you were looking to hear. Yeah, and Professor has a really unique sound

when it comes down to arranging. So it was really like, let me find the real sound of HBCUs. And they really brought it to the table and I was able to record. And Dallas Austin kind of taught me how to record marching bands, because he did drum lines. So I took that information, went there,

slept there, everything. In the band room, right? Wow, really? How long were you there? Almost a year. Yeah, almost a year. Yeah. In the band room, just recording, recording, showing up, recording. And then we came across...

It was like you were in college for that year. Right, right, right, right, right. Because I'd never been in college as well, but I knew I could help solve something for the music department. They gave me an honorary doctorate for it, and from there, we got the Grammy, and now we're headed toward the next Grammy

by bringing ten HBCUs and creating an HBCU symphony that will actually hire students. Actually, one of the TSU students is outside right now. He plays trumpet. He's now on tour with me. Yeah, I heard him playing. Yeah, he's on tour now. So straight from school to being a hired musician,

and I want to do that for as many musicians as possible, and then we can score films. So HBCU Symphony is a new organization that I'm starting. So I'm learning how to do 501c3s and unionizing symphonies and endowments and all of that sort of stuff to turn it into a full symphony that can do black films like Tyler Perry or Will Smith.

Now was that born out of this experience or did you already have that vision before you even started this? I didn't. When I did TSU, I felt so bad because they were online and everybody was like, oh, man, we didn't win a Grammy. Like, oh, my school didn't get that. Or, you know, I wish he had to come to my school. And I know how important it is for musicians to not put their instruments down after school. Right.

You usually have to put your instrument down after marching band and then go and find a real job. But in this case, we'll be able to hire them like we're doing with Curt right now. So, yeah, that's kind of the goal. See, the thing that I think was awesome about that is I always talk about intentionality. Meaning you start off with this is what I want to do. So when you said I'm looking for a sound, meaning you start off with, this is what I want to do.

So when you said, I'm looking for a sound, you could have went, from a sound standpoint, you could have went to any number of PWIs. But you're like, no, no, no, no, there's a certain thing I'm looking for. And so you were intentional in saying, no, I want an HBCU sound. And then even within that one,

I want a certain sound within the HBCU sound. And then even within that one, I want a certain sound within the HBCU sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the symphony of the HBCU sound is the marching band. Right. Right? Because when we go into, you know, the parties or whatever, or the games, everything is surrounded around the marching band, the drum major and all of that, right?

So the majorettes, like, it's a really important part to African American history. And I knew I wanted that sound. You couldn't get that at a PWI. It had to be HBCU. And then, so with this HBCU symphony, have you had conversations with folks in the movie space about this and saying, hey, you're scoring films here, like you're doing it already, here's a great way to do it and you are truly impacting and helping black students and HBCUs. Yeah, I've had a conversation with a few, but the goal is to make the best music as much as possible.

So it's like score. Well, the name of the album is The Now Testament, so I'm trying to score what's going on in our previous time by referencing the Old and the New Testament. So The Now Testament has this sound. So score the sound from the Clotilde in Mobile, Alabama, the last slave ship to America, all the way up to February when the Grammy hits,

or when we do Mardi Gras, because we're playing for the Queen of Mardi Gras. So this black sound will kind of, the symphony will take you through from the Clotilda to Mardi Gras next year, and you'll have this sound and this big performance and these 10 HBCUs come together and then we create that sound, right? Then we go to films.

We did get an offer from Bungalow and a few other people to jump in and create a documentary series surrounded with Hulu and all of that sort of stuff, but the goal is to first just create the sound and make sure that it resonates with the culture of gospel. I want to let Tyler know. Right, right. That would be amazing.

What's going down? That would be amazing. Yeah, because, I mean, then he can, you know, use so many students and give them a chance to really, like, get their chops up. Like, kids were changing their Instagram page saying, you know, Grammy Award winning trumpeteer. Right, absolutely. You know what I mean? And that's true.

They're on this Grammy award winning album. And they got their Grammy. If you want it, you won a Grammy, you Grammy award winning. Right. And the reason why we went for that is because in the world of music, that's very important. So to set that standard, and Fisk had already done it the year before with the Jubilee Singers, but we knew that if we did it in a way that gospel could really relate, as far as like, you know, HBCUs, marching bands,

all the, you know, playing fields, they were playing against Jackson State in that big stadium, and they're playing the album. Mm-hmm. So have you already picked those 10 HBCUs? Yeah, so we have Philander Smith, we have, Jesus Christ, a Wibbert Force. We have Philander Smith. We have, Jesus Christ, Wibbert Force. We have...

At Ohio. Yeah, Alabama A&M. Okay. Jesus, North Carolina A&T. All right. North Carolina Central. It's a lot of fisk. We just recorded with the Fisk Marching Band.

Now you picked 10, so that means you're going to have about 97 folks now mad, like, yo, man! Well, as much as I possibly can, pull it off, you know, put them together so that it's no longer a battle. You know, the thing is we battle against each other, and we're not actually building together. So instead of battling, let's play together and break the Guinness World Record for the largest African-American performance. So that's the goal at Mardi Gras, to really have that many kids playing at one time and making an album and making a statement. I know one of those 10 from Louisiana.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You ain't trying to get cussed out at home. No, no, no, no, no. So Mardi Gras originally started in Mobile, Alabama. Oh, I know. So we're going to go to Mobile, have the big dresses, the whole thing, you know, and it's going to be really special. The Mobile people really get mad when people keep talking about New Orleans. And they act like, no, no, no, this thing started here.

Right, right, right. Like, Mobile people take it real personal. People only reference New Orleans and Mardi Gras. Yeah, yeah, because it's connected to Afric Town and how the Clotilda started from Africa Town started from the Clotilda. And yeah, but yeah, that's the whole journey of what I think this album would consist of. When did this sound thing begin in your head?

How old were you? Man, it was a long, long time ago. I was a little kid just finding sound, just chasing sound. First of all, was it music being constantly played in your house? Was it in the neighborhood? Yeah.

Yeah, so part of my sound, I could hear it from the projects outside of the church, but my dad's church in Chicago here was really musical. Like all my brothers and sisters, our 22 brothers and sisters are musical. But to have that moment. 22 brothers and sisters? Yeah, my dad would be 100 next year.

You're one of 23? Yeah, yeah. Your dad's gonna be 100 next year? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so I was always chasing. So your dad believed in being plentiful and multiply. Right, right, right, right.

Yeah. Right, right, right. Yes, yes, yes. Your mother was like, slow down. One of 23. Lord. That's funny. Man, how big was your house?

No, multiple houses. But you know, multiple houses, different families. But we stuck together and worked on music a lot. And growing up, I just stayed around music. And that's all. Other musicians in the family? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, other musicians in the family.

But I'm probably the one that actually did it, right? Because everybody else was like, oh, I don't know, I gotta go to work. Let's do something responsible. You know what I mean? So were you sort of,, I mean, thinking back, were you sort of that weird kid that teachers and others never understood? Because when you talk, I had this conversation with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

Oh, yeah. And they were telling me, they were saying that when they listen to music, it was interesting talking to them because Prince said the same thing, that when they listen to music, it's hard for them to listen to music because they're sort of rearranging the music in their head. We listen to it just, I'm listening to the music. They're hearing something totally different than what we are. Were you like that growing up?

And then wouldn't you go, okay, I'm not quite like everybody else. I'm hearing, and did you ever say, y'all not hearing this? Well, I, yeah, so, I mean, at 11, I really dived in, because my dad died, so I had to really focus in on what I wanted to do in life, right? It was either gonna be in a gang or music,

because I wasn't really that good at school. But I started working on it and kept working on it and kept working on it. And I was driving Lyft and playing my music for people. And then as I kept going, I took my Lyft money. I was homeless at the time. So driving Lyft, homeless, playing my music for people. And they would go like, oh, I kind of like this. I kind of like that. So they start kind of tweaking my music for people and they would go like, oh, I kinda like this, I kinda like that. So they start kinda tweaking my sound for me.

And then from there, I signed a deal with Atlantic and opened up for Beyonce and then Matt Jay and then just kept going. And they just blew up. Tony Bennett, yeah, Chance the Rapper. Just kept working with a bunch of people, J.I.V., like a lot of people. And yeah, so now it's just the sound of everything.

But I don't listen, I actually don't listen to music. I don't listen to anybody's music. Like, Donald Lawrence is my mentor. Right, and of course he was over the whole music program. But I don't know a lot of his music, because I don't allow myself to put other textures on my palette, so I have to kind of like... Wow. Yeah. See, I have to kind of like... Wow.

Yeah. See, I think a lot of people don't, really don't understand that concept. Yeah. I remember when I had a Sunday morning show on TV One, my producer, he kept sending me notes on Monday and Tuesday what was on Meet the Press and Face the Nation and this week, and I was like, yo, Jay, stop.

Yeah. I said, I don't watch those. Yeah. I said, we ain't doing what they doing. Yeah, because it's on your subconscious. So don't send me notes. I'm not trying to do what they do. Yeah, no.

And I literally wouldn't watch it. Yeah, because it messes up your genius as well. I just don't. It's like, if it's not interesting to me, then I'm like, why am I sitting here watching this? And even now, I had a friend ask me,

a fellow journalist, who asked me, he said, oh, what columnists do you read? So I don't read none of them. What I meant by that, now, I might read somebody's stuff, but I don't go, oh, I'm reading so-and-so every single week or twice a week, I'm seeking them out.

I don't, I just, I'm not, even if I look at the cable news shows right now, I don't watch them. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC, Fox News. I might see clips on Twitter or whatever, but I literally don't watch it because what we do with my show is so different and I'm just like, I'm not getting anything out of that. And it's hard for people to really understand that because,

it's what you just said you you will subconsciously yeah pick up on what somebody else said the next thing you know you're parroting what they say and do yeah and not just sort of up and flowing in your own gifting then how you want to see the world yeah exactly exactly so that's that's part of it reason why is I was digital marketing and music at Leo Burnett, and Leo Burnett is an agency. A Chicago institution. Yes, yes, yes.

So I understand the psychology behind sound and audible branding, right? So how it sits in your subconscious and kind of forms your thoughts for you through culture. So I prefer not listen to music so that I can focus on finding something that's ancient, like in March and Bang, playing a gospel album. You know what I mean? That's kind of going back to your roots in a way and the opposite of where everybody else is. Do you...

So I'm curious by that because... I remember I was in St. Kitts. We were heading for this boat ride, and I heard this song, and I had to immediately go Shazam it. And I couldn't Shazam it. I couldn't bring it up. I couldn't bring it up. And so then I recorded it so I could Shazam it later.

And first of all, the reason I love Shazam is because when Shazam came up with, when it was created, you could, because I used to sit, I might hear a song and I might sit here and I'm like listening. So then I would remember like four or five lyrics. Yeah. Then I would go to Google and type in those words and then try to figure out what the song was. Right.

I just love music like that because I played cornet in elementary school, bass baritone in middle school and high school. And so you hear something, you're like. Wow, yeah. You hear something, you're like, who's that? And so then I might walk over, and I'll be somewhere, and I'm like Shazam or something. I'm like, what you doing?

I'm like, I'm trying to figure out what the song is. So for you, how do you walk through this world? When you're in airports and when you're just anywhere, do you hear something and you go, interesting? And then does your brain start sort of processing that and going, okay, that could be. And the next thing you know, just that sound just takes you on a journey somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But most of the time I try to ignore places that play music.

No, I don't even mean music. I'm just saying if you're somewhere and you might hear a sound. Yeah. try to ignore places that play music. No, I don't even mean music. I'm just saying if you're somewhere and you might hear a sound, and then how your brain works, you hear a sound differently than other people. So like when Ray Charles, when he heard sounds as a kid, he heard differently because he couldn't see. Yeah, yeah. So do you hear differently and then go,

okay, I can do something with that, and then next thing you know, your brain is just going somewhere with you. Yeah, yeah, I can take sounds, I can hear sounds, I can replace music, I can take vocals out of my head, I can hear sounds in somebody, or actually, I was talking to a friend. You mean like all this sound I'm hearing

behind me right now, trying to figure out why this happened in the middle of the interview? Yeah. That's so funny. Or like when he had those Velcro pants right there and made that noise and I'm like, really, in the middle of this interview? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Y'all heard that too. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. That's funny, dude. Oh my God. Because you heard it too. Yeah, I heard it. I definitely heard it.

I heard it. I heard it. But I can hear. I heard it. I heard it. But I can hear sound. I was in the shower. I take about three or four showers a day, right, if I can. Because I'm just thinking. You like Dwayne The Rock. He does the same thing.

Oh, that's crazy. I didn't know that. Like three or four days. Yeah, yeah. But I can actually hear the key of the water dropping off me. Yeah, for sure. Or like there was a. You could hear. Wait a minute. Hold up. You could hear the water dropping off you. Yeah, for sure. Or like there was a- You could hear, wait a minute, hold up.

You could hear the water dropping off you? Yeah, I can hear what key was in. Yeah, or like a friend had a faucet that was a little on and I can hear the whistle. I'm like, yo, that key is, you know. Or I can listen to 432 and tell the difference between 440 and 432 hertz so I can feel it. Like I'm in the studio most of the time.

So I can feel sound. Like I'm in the studio most of the time. So I can feel sound. Yo, that's crazy. Yeah, it's pretty insane. Though that's- It drives me insane a little bit. No, no, that's what I was about to say. Bootsy's the same way though. Bootsy Collins, he's the same way.

Like, yeah, like there's people that get stuck into finding sound and creating sound that they might go perform, but they really feel like prostitutes when they perform. It's more so they like to create things, like Prince. He can perform, but he wasn't trying to be like Michael. He was more so in the studio making albums and albums and albums and albums that we still have yet to touch.

Because he was in search of something. Yeah. Because he was, like, I was totally, like when he left Warner Brothers, he left them, part of it, he left the 700 songs. Wow. And his whole deal was, none of those songs were good enough for release.

And one of them I just love, it's about that walk. I love the song. Wow. And I'm like, and it was crazy, because when he died, George Lopez was a good friend of his. And I met him two or three times, met Prince twice. Wow. And it was crazy, because Van Jones told me,

I swore you all were friends, but he always talked about you. He made my book and everything. And George once said, he said, man, he said, I would love for you and Prince to have a music conversation. I would love to have a conversation. And I would love to ask him, that's a banging song, but why for you was that not good enough for a release? I mean, it's an amazing song.

I totally understand. So I would love to ask, how was that one not good enough to be released? Yeah, I'm releasing tonight at 12 a.m. tomorrow, something. And I was in a studio working on the music and ready to release it. And my guy called me and was like, yo, you gotta hurry up, you gotta hurry up, you're gonna miss the Grammy deadline. And then you did all of this, you know,

no, you gotta hurry up, you gotta hurry up. And it's not finished, but I had to upload it in order to meet the deadline. Right. I was full body on the floor crying for hours. Because for you. It wasn't perfect. It wasn't.

Wow. I feel that, yeah. So how do you then deal with that? Because in some ways. I'm gonna ask them can I replace the audio later? Hey, distribution, you already did that. You released it, now let me tweak the mix real quick and send it to you again. No, what I mean by that, in some ways,

because you said it earlier, in some ways, in some ways you're trapped by the genius. And sometimes you have to let it go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you have those around you who you trust who are kind of like, sir? Yeah, J.I.V. for sure. We got to let it go, bro. Yeah, yeah.

He's like, yo, you got to let it go for sure. But I mean, it's the first symphony for a gospel period we've never had an artist that was a symphony right and then it's hbcus you know what i mean and it's it's the hbcu symphony like we didn't even have one of those before it must it must um drive you crazy that schools today don't have the same appreciation of music and the arts that they used to. As I said, I played in elementary school, junior high, and high school.

And it bugs me, because I absolutely believe that playing an instrument has played a huge role in my success as a journalist Why because you have to read music? Yeah, you have to study music. Yeah, you have to listen to the sound of other People and then understand I'm playing too loud. Yeah And I mean and and so all of and so when they you can literally apply all of that music to so many other areas of life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you play an instrument when you were in school? I could play a little bit. I could play a little bit of drums and piano and stuff because my dad was a pastor. If the musician doesn't come or show up. So you weren't, so what's interesting to me is you really were not a hardcore musician. No. But you have this sounding gift. Yeah.

That's, now that's also what's interesting because normally, like when you mention Prince and I mentioned Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, because a number of people, they play instruments. Yeah, yeah. I actually wouldn't compare myself to them at all, to Prince or Michael or anybody like that. I chase sound as almost a science, right?

So it's like I'm chasing it almost like an A&R, like a Barry Gordy or like... Because they're musical. They're just... They can hear hits and they can make them based on hearing but they can't make them off hands, right? Like, you can't... Yeah. Barry was a songwriter. Yeah. But he wasn't... I can songwrite. Yeah, he wasn't a musician. I can write songs on anything like

the other night when I was on the floor I saw... You on the floor crying? Yeah. I saw an ant and I saw the ant's shadow and I was like, I've never seen an ant's shadow. It was so beautiful. And I was like, I can write a song about that. That's gonna be so dope.

But it's those type of things where you can write songs about almost anything, but you have to like hear them. And musicians can play, musicians can play anything. But it's about placement it's about timing it's about scoring a moment and shifting energy so yeah so do the people around you do they have to understand when something happened you like y'all chill out that's just sir because i mean because some people kind of like what like like have you have where your mind sort of drifts off. You could be with a group.

You could be going somewhere or whatever, and you're just sort of like something just takes your mind away. Sometimes it's kind of like, yeah, I'll just chill. Don't worry about it. It's just him doing what he does. Yeah, most people encourage me because it's an exploration. So if I hear a sound and I go, just let me go. Like my journey in life is my journey in life.

And I'm meant to experience life a different way than everybody else is. Absolutely. So last question for you. So Brie Babineau, who's on this tour, you already said you don't listen to music. So maybe you, so here's the deal. So I threw out the Brie, we were just talking

and then I threw out the Commodore song Zoom. And she was like, who's that? Then she thought Lana Richie was Lil Richard. And then, and she, and she, and she, so she had no idea what Zoom was. I was like, girl, I said, Blackpoke, I said, he can't perform no concert, he don't play Zoom.

Then I mentioned Jeffrey Osbourne and LTD, and she swore Jeffrey Osbourne wasn't play Zoom. Right, right. Then I mentioned Jeffrey Osborne and LTD and she swore Jeffrey Osborne wasn't even black. So, do you know who Lionel Richie and the Commodores are?

I know Lionel Richie because of J.I.V. Lionel Richie was like, you guys got to do another album. But do I know Lionel Richie's songs all the way through?

No, no. Gotcha. But at least you know Lionel Richie. Yes, I definitely know who Lionel Richie songs all the way through? No. Gotcha. But at least you know Lionel Richie. Yes, I definitely know who Lionel Richie is. Brie. Brie. Brie.

See, because I was snatching her black card. I took her black card. Okay. Do you know Jeffrey Osborne, LTD? No. Okay. So you looked up and got the first half right. She ain't know nobody.

She said he ain't black with last name Austin. I was like, oh my God. Only one of the greatest singers. Unbelievable brother. Drummer for LTD. Can't leave singer. Right. So yeah, she Brie was struggling. She was struggling. Then she challenged me to ask everybody else on the McDonald's tour.

Ask everybody else on the tour if they knew. Both of them. And then she told me I couldn't ask Hezekiah and Anthony because they were older. But she said everybody else younger, they ain't going to know who you're talking about. Yeah. And I proved to her she was wrong.

Yeah, I definitely know Lionel Richie, yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah, he told us keep our foot on the gas. Like, keep working. Next Grammy, keep moving. There you go. Don't think that you've acquired anything. Go to your keep moving. There you go. Don't think that you've acquired anything.

Go to your second mountain. There you go. Well, he's only one of the greatest songwriters of all time, so that's some sound advice. Man, great conversation. Yes, sir. Absolutely. And good luck with everything, baby.

Thank you, man. I appreciate it, man. Thanks a bunch. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, my God. Let's see it, let's see it. I'm gonna make you feel the same I'm gonna make you feel the same I'm gonna make you feel the same I'm gonna make you feel the same

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