#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Trump Criminal Cases, Trump's No Fluke, Trump & Higher Education Finances

Episode Date: November 9, 2024

11.8.2024 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Trump Criminal Cases, Trump's No Fluke, Trump & Higher Education Finances  Folks believed that Trump's 2016 presidential win was a one-off, a fluke. Elie Mystal will explain how Tuesday's outcome proved that the country is much more right-wing than we thought.  Now that Trump is returning to the White House, what's happening with his criminal election interference cases?  Today, a federal judge paused all upcoming deadlines related to the case.  We'll also talk to a student loan expert about what parents and returning students can expect when the Department of Education is demolished.  And tonight, we want to hear your thoughts.  We'll have the phone lines open.  Download the #BlackStarNetwork app on iOS, AppleTV, Android, Android TV, Roku, FireTV, SamsungTV and XBox 👉🏾 http://www.blackstarnetwork.com The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platforms covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. self. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Let's go. Folks, it's Friday, November 8, 2024,

coming up on Roland Martin Unfiltered, streaming live on the Black Star Network. Well, you know what? Guess what? Folks thought the Trump presidential win in 2016 was a one-off. Well, Ellie Mistel will explain how Tuesday's outcome proved that the country is much more

right-wing than folks thought. Now that, of course, the orange one has returned to the Oval Office, what happens with his criminal election interference case? thought now that of course the orange one is returned to the Oval Office. What happens with his criminal election interference case today? A federal judge paused all upcoming deadlines related to the case.

Will also talk to a student loan expert about what parents and returning students can expect with the Department of Education is targeted, especially the student loan. 170 billion that was actually forgiven under Biden-Harris. Also tonight, you get to weigh in on what the hell's been happening in this country. Lots to talk about.

Plus, congrats to Willow Force getting their accreditation back off of the watch list. It's time to bring the funk, a roll of art unfiltered on the Black Star Network. Let's go. He's got whatever the piss, he's on it. Whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fact, the fine. And when it breaks, he's right on time. And it's rolling. Best believe he's knowing. Putting it down from sports to news to politics.

With entertainment just for kicks, he's rolling. It's Uncle Roro, y'all. Yeah, yeah. It's Roland Martin. Yeah, yeah. Rolling with Roland now. Yeah, yeah. He's funky, he's fresh, he's real the best.

You know he's Roland Martin now. Well, a federal judge presiding over Trump's election interference case has agreed to pause all upcoming deadlines after special counsel Jack Smith requested it. Smith and the DOJ are trying to figure out the best way to wind down the election case as well as the classified documents case. The decision is based on longstanding Department of Justice policy that a sitting president cannot face criminal prosecution while in office. The government will file a status report or otherwise inform the court of the result of his deliberations by December 2nd.

The Georgia case against Donald Trump for allegedly conspiring to interfere with the 2020 election will go on hold until after the term of office ends. Let's do this. First of all, also on Tuesday, Judge Juan Merchan will decide whether to grant Trump's pre-election request to throw out his conviction on 34 felony counts in New York. If Merchan sides with Trump, it would almost wipe clean his slate of criminal cases. If he upholds the conviction, he'll proceed to sentencing later this month. However, that will likely spark more delay

attempts from Trump and open up an unprecedented new front for America's criminal justice system. Go to my panel. Michael Imhotep hosts African History Network show out of Detroit, Kilimanjaro Communications Strategy out of D.C., Matt Manning, Civil Rights Attorney out of Corpus Christi. And you know what? We're going to talk about L.A. Mist Manning, civil rights attorney out of Corpus Christi. So, you know what?

We're going to talk about L.A. Misty or some other stuff, but he's a justice correspondent with the nation. So let's just go ahead and bring him in on this, too. Matt, this is real simple. That is, this punk got away with it. He got away with it. This was slow. Attorney General Merrick Garland should be ashamed of himself because his delays allowed

this to happen, allowed them to run the clock out. This man and frankly, I hope the judge in New York doesn't throw the charges out. I hope he proceeds with sentencing because one, he's not

he hasn't been sworn in yet. He right now, I don't give a damn he's not, he hasn't been sworn in yet. He right now, I don't give a damn he's president-elect. He has not been sworn in. And so that needs to happen. And what it will say is, yeah, you can go ahead and break the law. What it will say is Donald Trump is absolutely above the law. Exactly. I mean, we already know that the justice system does not treat your average

citizen the same way it treats wealthy citizens, let alone people who are of lower socioeconomic status. That's just the truth of the justice system. But not allowing a sentencing to go forward in this circumstance could not be a clearer message that there is another half who lives differently than you do, meaning you can get convicted of a felony, not only a felony. I was talking about this at the barbershop today. This is a fraud, right? So it's a crime of moral turpitude, which is a crime involving dishonesty, deceit, lying, that kind of thing. Those are the kinds of crimes, even on the misdemeanor level, that tend to stick with people more than other crimes, even more so sometimes in violent crimes, because there is a legal finding that you were dishonest or deceitful or what have you.

So to not sentence him in this case because he's the president-elect, when, one, there's sufficient time to do so, two, he was convicted of 34 counts, and three, it's a crime of moral turpitude, would send a very clear message that he is above the law. And the problem with the rule of law is we know that gets thrown around as a term when it relates to generally when white and conservative people want to be applying that on anybody else that they don't think is a part of their ilk. But this is the circumstance where Marshawn needs to do the right thing and sentence him. The federal cases, in terms of the custom and not going forward on a case with a sitting president, that may be the DOJ's practice. And I do think that some of those delays have clearly contributed to this circumstance. But as it relates to that case where he's already been found guilty

of 34 felony counts, I don't think there's really a defensible reason for not sentencing him. I understand that there will be some difficulties with actually upholding that sentence. I mean, there's not a likelihood he's sending him to jail. But the reality is, it sends the message that he's above the law. And we already know that that's what we're seeing him say, frankly. The legal system only works if it applies to you. It doesn't work if it applies to me. But this would be proof positive of that from a sitting judge. And I don't think he should go that route. I think he should sentence him. Here's the other deal, Michael.

Why is Georgia delaying their case? That happened before. Yeah. That's a state case. That is not federal, and let's be real honest. The Department of Justice, they are basing this on a memo.

Memo. A memo that was written in the Nixon administration to apply to that who was likely going to be a convicted felon, Nixon. And so I don't understand. See, I don't get the weakness here. They do not have, this is, it is not everybody listening. Let me be very clear. It is not in the United

States Constitution that a president cannot be criminally charged. It's not in the Constitution. It's not a House rule. It's not a Senate rule. This is literally a memo written by the Nixon Department of Justice. And I don't know what Georgia is doing. Georgia should proceed because that is a state case. Yeah. Yeah. I think Georgia should proceed. And this memo is not in U.S. criminal code either.

So I think this memo should have been revoked, especially when you have somebody as corrupt as Donald Trump. I think he should be sentenced in the New York case, because ironically, the New York case that Alvin Branch prosecuted, that was tied to the 2016 election and covering up the payoff to Stormy Daniels and falsifying business records, right, to cover up the payoff so that she wouldn't speak and interfere with the 2016 election. So, yeah, you know, I think they should go ahead with the sentencing. I don't know what the penalty would be, but I think they should go ahead with the sentencing and show still, you know, you're still not above the law, okay, not 100 percent.

So, you know, we'll see what happens here. But, yeah, he's getting away with a lot of this. But the other thing is, Roland, he will probably pardon the January 6th insurrection, is also, okay, which is something on a whole nother level, a whole nother level of white privilege and extremely dangerous, showing that you can assault Capitol Hill police officers, you can attack the U.S. Capitol, you can try to interfere with the certification of the election results, the electoral college election results, things like this. You could try to do—you could do all that, and then the person who incited you, he's going to give you a presidential pardon. But at the same time,

you want to give police officers 100% immunity from criminal prosecution. Kelly? Kelly? Yeah. I think I'm just over it at this point.

Of all the people to delay processes, you would think that Merrick Garland, of all people, would know not to do that. He is a victim of delayed processes. He should be on the Supreme Court. And because of delayed processes and inaction, he's not. And now he's at the helm of convicting a—or sentencing a felon, and he is deliberately delaying those processes so that justice will not prevail in this instance as well. So I—there's no true rationale for it. There's no logic to it. My gut reaction is that it's possible that the reason for the delays is that because he is president-elect and he has all but sworn

on a Bible that he will come after his political opponents and those who disagree with him. Maybe people are actually afraid because this time he truly has no guardrails. You have the Senate, you've got the House, you've got Supreme Court all red. And now you have Donald Trump, who is redder than red. So it's possible that people are running scared and trying to protect themselves in lieu of, frankly, just doing their jobs. I am disgusted by the cowardice and the inaction and, you know, lack of a better word, the pussyfooting around that has been happening for months. But we're here now. And like you said on Tuesday, you know, we will learn. You know,

we tried to tell you. Ellie, I was one of the people who publicly said that President-elect Joe Biden should have picked former Alabama Senator Doug Jones to be his attorney general. I thought he was going to be a hell of a lot more aggressive. Merrick Garland will go down as one of the worst attorney generals because of his abject failure to hold Donald Trump accountable. Yes. Yes. Merrick Garland is the worst pick in two successive Democratic administrations, and that's got to be a record of some sort, right? Because he was the

worst person that Obama could have picked to replace Antonin Scalia in 2015 and 2016, and he was the worst person Joe Biden could have picked to be the attorney general. And Joe Biden stuck with him even after it became apparent that Merrick Garland was not up to the job, was not up to the task, was not up to the moment. And Merrick Garland is one of the true villains of this cycle. Merrick Garland is one of the true bad guys that brought us Trump to electric boogaloo, right? Like, that's just reality. But in response to some of the things I was hearing while I was in the waiting room, you know, the question of whether or not Trump is above the law, he is. Trump is above the law.

He shouldn't be. I disagree. I agree with everything you said. It's not in the said. It's not in the Constitution. It's not how this country is supposed to run. But it is how it runs. He is above the law. He won. He got away with it. And at some point, I almost need people to see it, right? I almost need them to understand what this country is, understand the depravity of this country, understand the privilege white people enjoy. Because I think as I, you know, pour through the election results like all of y'all, I think one of the kind of macro lessons that I'm getting is that people really don't get it.

People really don't get what they people don't get what they've done. People don't get what's about to happen. People are in denial. People are in kind of Pollyanna land. Nah, bro. The president, Trump, is above nobody else. But Trump can do whatever he wants and he will do whatever he wants and ain't no law coming to save us there ain't no attorney general there ain't no guard rails coming to constrain him the only thing that stops him is organized desperate resistance i don't mean wearing a pink pussy hat, right? The time for that is over. I don't mean hashtag not my president. I don't mean that crap. I mean the kind of resistance that our ancestors put down. That's what it's going to take to get this country back. And it ain't going to happen in four years.

It ain't going to happen in eight years. You're talking about—and I've been talking to my family about this—you're talking about planting seeds in a garden that we will not live to see bear fruit, all right? We're talking about needing a plan to take this country back in 2050, in 2060, because we are entering a time of consequences. And so, yeah, sentence him, don't sentence him. If it makes people feel better to put that marker down, then at least he was sentenced, fine. I don't have a problem with that, obviously. But the reality is these people are punks.

The people who were supposed to hold Trump accountable are punks. They're afraid of him. They're afraid of his movement. They're afraid of his people. And so there are no guardrails. There are no... I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

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on what this man can do. He is an emperor in all but name. Oh, absolutely. And it is just unbelievable to watch these people cower and be cowards. To be flat out just cowards.

Yeah. And he's going to stay, and he's just sitting there laughing. And his supporters, they literally don't care. They could talk all day about law and order. They don't give a damn about law and order when it applies to them. Only everybody else. Oh, follow the law. You must come in this country fairly.

But, hey, if you're still stealing documents, you're good. If you're sitting here and lie about your properties and the value, guess what? You're good. You can run a fake foundation. You're good. A fake university, it's all good. And then the Supreme Court goes, guess what? You've got immunity so you can do whatever the hell you want as long as you cloak it in presidential action.

You guys were talking about how he's going to pardon the January 6th domestic terrorists, and that is true. And I just need people listening to understand what that means because that that that's how people like us get killed straight up. Because by partying, pardoning these people, what he is telling his own violent supporters. And if I want to be kind, I'll say that not all of his supporters are gun-toting, violent idiots, but enough of them are. And what he's telling the most violent strand of his supporters is to go out and do violence, and you will be forgiven. Go out and do violence against the people that I have told you to hate, and you will be forgiven. We already know they think that. We already know that when there's a mass shooter at a Hispanic nightclub or a Black church,

when the cops come, the mass shooter expects to be embraced by the police. We have documentary evidence of mass shooters expecting the police are on their side, and that was before this election. What are they going to think now? Speaking of the police, what are the police going to think now? Of the thousands and thousands and thousands of law enforcement officers who voted for Donald Trump, sure, who voted for a convicted felon over a prosecutor, of the law enforcement people who were able to vote for a felon instead of a prosecutor, sure, some of them might have been concerned about inflation, but some of them weren't. Some of them, I'm sorry, were not motivated by economic anxiety. Some of them voted for the felon over the prosecutor because some of them want to crack

black skulls. And what Trump has said is that he wants to give the cops the kind of absolute immunity that he himself was given by the Supreme Court. So what does that mean for us? Because it turns out, folks, I don't get to know what the cop was motivated by, what the Trump-voting cop was motivated by when I drive past him in my car. I don't get to know whether I'm being—you know, the patrolman in my community, I don't get to know if they were inspired by economic anxiety or something else. And these are the people who will feel particularly empowered to do violence against us. And so while everybody else is kind of still in the kind of—not everybody else—but while most of the kind of Democratic pooh-bahs and talking

heads are busy doing the like, oh, well, what are the lessons from the election? And what are we going to—who are we going to run in 2028? Is it going to be Gavin Newsom? I don't know, bro. Like, while they're having that discussion, I'm having discussions with my family and my kids about whether or not we're even safe to stay here. I'm having discussions with my family and my colleagues about whether or not I can even continue to do what I do in a safe environment, given not just the obvious state-sponsored paramilitary forces that are now trained on us, on our community, but from the threats of any violent MAGA asshole with a gun who feels empowered by this violent president. That's the story of this election that we're still trying to work through.

I'm not even worried about 2028. I'm trying to make it to 2028. So, Ellie, you talked about how there's this rightward shift. And let's talk about that. Because, you know, when people look at the 2020 election, I kept telling folks, you can't look at 2020 the same way you look at 2016 and any other election, because it was a COVID election. Rules were changed. And guess what?

2020 actually showed what democracy should look like, how you make it easier for folks to vote. Well, Republicans got pissed off, rolled a lot of that stuff back, and we saw this election being a contraction election. How they attacked ballot drop boxes, how they attacked early voting, how they, all the rules they put in place.

And so, again, Republicans admit it. They win when fewer folks vote. They admit they lose when more people vote. All the voter suppression techniques work. And here's, again, here's one of my kind of 2024 takeaways that people aren't ready for yet, at least based on what I'm hearing from the poobahs. But I do think that when we look back at this point in history, to the extent that people are allowed to write and read history books in the future, when we look back at this point, we will

look at the period of the Joe Biden presidency from 2020 to 2024 as a huge missed opportunity, right? That when given power, albeit briefly, when Biden had control of the White House, the Senate, and the House, for that brief moment, even having to deal with the, you know, traitors that are Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. What we will understand is that Joe Biden and the Democrats—and again, I blame Manchin and Sinema as much as I blame anybody—simply fail to do the things necessary to protect democracy from the kind of authoritarian takeover that we are now going to have to live through, right? And yes, that to me starts with Merrick Garland, starts with law enforcement and

Merrick Garland's inability and unwillingness to hold Trump. And we're just—I hate to get distracted, but, like, we're so focused on Merrick Garland's failure to hold Trump accountable. Let's not forget, there are a whole bunch of January 6th supporting politicians and Congress people that Merrick Garland also let off the hook, right? Marjorie Taylor Greene also won reelection on Tuesday, and she shouldn't have been allowed to run either. But anyway, in addition to Merrick Garland and his abject failure as a professional person, we will see that the Democrats did nothing to secure the voting rights that allow Democrats to be elected

in the first place. They did nothing to restore the Voting Rights Act to its pre-John Roberts glory. They did nothing to stop the states from changing the voting rules, decreasing the times for early voting, making it harder to mail in your ballots, contracting the number of polling places, increasing the lines and the hurdles that people face in order to go vote. They did nothing to stop that at the state level. They did nothing to stop the Republican takeover of state boards of elections. This election wasn't stolen in the sense that, like, there absolutely was not some

kind of precinct level, like, I'm going to take the votes and stuff it in my ear. Like, no, that's not how this election went on. This election was free and fair based on the rules. The rules themselves were broken, and the Republicans broke them, and Democrats did nothing to fix them. And that is also why they lost. I don't blame Kamala Harris for not being able to inspire an extra 20 million people to crawl over broken glass

to vote for her. I blame Democrats for allowing Republicans to break the glass and put it in their way, frankly. And that is also the story of our times. It is a Democratic Party that has lost basic self-preservation instincts. Remember, we were sitting here in 2020 after, you know, in the transition period. What were we talking about? To deal with the Senate, right? We weren't talking about, like, oh, how are we going to get Manchin to—we didn't even know Kyrsten Sinema was going to go full, you know, Karen. We weren't talking about Joe Manchin. We were talking about adding Puerto Rico as a state. We were talking about adding D.C. as a state. Where the hell did those bills go? Notice how that—you don't think that would have helped to have 10 extra electoral votes and four extra senators just now?

You don't think that might have helped somebody? But no, Democrats didn't do that. No, we didn't have the time to do that. No, we didn't have the focus to do that. And so we are where we are. Like, you know, Roland, you know this because you've seen me offline. You know, I got people asking me in the past week, you know, what are we going to do about the courts, Ellie? What are we going to do about the justice system, Ellie?

And my response—and it's not a flip response, but it is an anger response—my response is, well, what you could do is go back four years and listen to me then. Because four years ago was our chance to stop this. four years ago was our chance to stop this. Three years ago was our chance to stop this. Now, now it is what it is. Questions for Ellie from our panel. Kelly, you

first. I'm trying not to cry, frankly, because I've been following Ellie for years. And we've met and he knows how much I just deeply love his rhetoric and his writings. I just feel broken. I feel like I did all I could do and it wasn't enough because it wasn't enough. So I guess my question is, is there anything we can do at this point? My initial reaction is no, but outside of ranting and raving on social media, which might be the last safe space that we can do such a thing, what else is there left to do?

Well, it depends upon where on social media we actually do it. That part. Yeah. Before I go to Ellie, which is one of the reasons why I really hope black folks move over to fan base. I hope Isaac Hayes develops, the third, develop a Twitter style or thread style functionality to the app as well

because Elon Musk has turned Twitter X into a right wing cesspool and that's all it is going to remain. And so that's what needs to happen. But Ellie, go ahead. Yeah, so I'm going to wrap those two responses into one, right? Because one of the—I think

Musk is actually a big part of this, right? It's Elon Musk, it's Peter Thiel, and it's David Sachs. And what do those men have in common? They're all white South Africans, right? And I don't mean white South Africans in like, oh, post-apartheid, playing rugby with Matt Damon, white South Africans. I mean white South Africans whose financial base comes from their participation in apartheid. That ain't an accident. And I think that when we look at the future and we look at how these three white South African men have incredible access to power, have incredible access to the structures of our government, we have to remember that apartheid—that South African apartheid was not merely a moral failing of white folks. I mean, it was obviously a moral failing of white folks, but it wasn't merely a moral failing. It was a structure.

It was a system that they implemented to make permanent white minority rule over a larger and more populous and more active black majority. That was the point of apartheid, right? It wasn't just people being mean. And that is the kind of structure they are going to try to put on us here. That is the yoke that they have fashioned for us here. And so, to Kelly's question, like, is there enough, right, is there enough to be done, there is, but those are the—that's what we—we have to understand what we're fighting against now, right, because the fight is different now, right? The fight two weeks ago was where I want

better democratic self-government and a justice system that works for everybody, and then, no, no, no, no, no, we're not—that's that. We lost that fight, right? Now comes the fight to maintain our humanity and dignity in the face of oppression. That is the only fight now. Is there enough effort? Is there enough soul? Is there enough passion in our community to do it? Hell yeah, there are, because this will not be the first time that these people have tried to take away our dignity and our humanity.

And the history has shown they have lost every time. They can beat us. They can kill us. They can rape us. They can steal us. They cannot defeat us. But we got to look after us. We got to be there for us. And we have to understand our fight is for not our freedoms, which are nice, but our dignity and our humanity is our fight now. And if we can do that, we can fight for that, and we can win that fight. And the freedoms will come back later. Well, I mean, like I said, we are not building for 2028. We're building for 2050. We're building for 2060. We're building so that our children can start, right, can join the fight. Where our parents join the fight, we got to...

I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's

bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod.

And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player,

Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown.

We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves.

We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's Dadication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. That's the goal now, I think. Matt?

Yeah, I want to first say, Ellie, I read your piece in The Nation, and I think you said in two sentences what I have tried to say inartfully when you said, he is them, and he tells them that being what they are is OK. I thought that was profound because that's precisely what has been behind what I've seen with not only a lot of the rhetoric, but a lot of the support, because he's emboldened people who would otherwise not have the confidence to say some of the hateful things that they believe. He's put that on the front stage. So I first want to commend you because you said it beautifully. But my question for you is, what do you think is the most effective and immediate form of resistance that we have? And where does it lie? Is it on the local level? Is it

in organizing a certain way behind a certain thing? I'd love to get your insight on that. I mean, Matt, man, if I knew, I'd be telling you. I don't know yet. I'm still trying to work that out for myself. Again, I'm still very focused on personal safety and those kinds of concerns. I don't know yet what the first line is. My instinct is where yours is. My instinct is that it's local, right? My instinct is that it's not national. It is through the local structures of the government where we still have, to use a white South African term, we still have some form of home rule. And we need to exercise our home rule as much as

possible. Like after 2016, I'm going to become a huge fan of federalism and states' rights for a bit, because that's going to help me right now. But I do think that even more so than those concerns, it is about the first-line defense is within our own communities and protecting each other and building each other back up. Right. I think that that that valence can't be lost. I mean, we always say when we come on the shows like Rollins, right, we always say ain't nobody for us but us. Right. We always have that in the back of our mind. But that almost like has to be like in the front of our mind right now. Right. Because because we are we are the only people who are going to care. I mean, that's the other that's what you get from the exit polls. Right. We're the only people that care about us.

Screw help. We're the only people who give a damn about us. And that has to be front of mind with all of our. Interactions with all of our resistance or whatever you want to call it, whatever power we have, we have to turn that power into power that's going to protect us first, because ain't nobody else going to do that. We know that now. Michael? Hey, Ellie Mastal. Good to talk to you again. I had a two-part question. Hey, I'm all right. I had a two-part question here. When you talked about Democrats didn't do enough to protect voting—I'm paraphrasing you—protect voting rights, to expand voting rights, things of this nature, there's a piece from BrennanCenter.org, Brennan Center for Justice, from August 2024. It talks about how voting laws have changed in

battleground states since 2020. And they looked at nine battleground states. One of them was Michigan, where I live. And in Michigan, we had 10 laws that expanded voting rights. But we had, you know, Democrats controlling the House, the Senate, and our governor, Gretchen Whitmer. And in Nevada, you had six laws that expanded voting rights, whereas other states controlled by Republicans, you know, they had laws to make it harder to vote.

So, what were some of the things that you think Democrats should have done to protect voting rights and expand voting rights? And the second part is the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. It passed the House of Representatives, but in the Senate, you had 16—all 50 Republicans voted against it in the Senate, including 16 sitting Republicans who voted to reauthorize the 1965 Voting Rights Act in 2005-2006. And I was just wanting to get your expert opinion on what we could have done to try to get that forced through the Senate.

It did pass the House of Representatives. Right. And no Republicans in the House voted for it either. Let me just say that. Right, right. So on the first question, I think what the Democrats should have done is very similar to what the Republicans are about to do and use the federal power to standardize voting across the nation. Right. and used federal power to standardize voting across the nation, right? So, yes, I agree. Michigan actually did a pretty good job of not retrenching on voting rights

because it had three—democratic control of all three branches of its government, right? But that was not true all around the country. And even though it's true—even though some states are better than other states, I think part of the problem when you really get into, like, voter mobilization, right, is that it is confusing, because where you—how you vote changes radically depending on where you live. So you can't have a nationally targeted, you know, campaign around just the nuts and bolts of getting people to the polls, because it's wildly different everywhere else, you know, depending on where you live, right? So, like, I am an expert on how you vote in New York City, right? How you vote in New York State. I know that very well. I have no idea

how you vote in Jersey, right? It's completely freaking different, right? And so there was no way for me as a, you know, national commentator or whatever to really really make—to do the bullhorning of, whoa, guys in New Jersey, what you got to do is—because I don't know. I mean, I actually—I educated myself. But you know what I mean? Like, I can't make broad statements because we don't use federal power. What the Republicans are about to do—Lara—I forget which—Lara whatever. Luma?

One of them. Okay. I think I was taught—I think it's Lara Trump. I get them, you know. I don't want to morph you. Whatever. One of the Laras was talking about how they want to use federal power to institute voter ID and standardize elections and limit early voting and do all these things from the federal seat of government. Now, when Democrats try to do it, Republicans scream about the Tenth Amendment, but I promise you they won't be talking about the Tenth Amendment and federalism when Republicans try to do it, right? So, like, those are the kinds of federalized laws that could have made voting easier, not just for Michigan, but for everybody, and then made it easier for you to explain to people

in Michigan, in Arizona, in Nevada, in Florida, how you actually vote, right? The John Lewis Voting Rights, and that dovetails into the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, which was one of the federal laws that could have done that, right? And so when you ask me what else could we have done to make sure that law passed over the objection of Manchin and Sinema, this is where I say, and you can check the tape, I said this in real time, the John Lewis Voting Rights Act was a shut down the government bill. You don't pass anything until after what happened on January 6th. After the attack on democracy, that is the first bill you pass, and you don't

let the government function until it passes it. That is what I would have done. I know Inflation Reduction Act this. I know that we had other priorities. No, that was the first and only—that should have been the first priority and only priority of the Biden administration, because you do not have a democracy without the franchise. You just don't, as we're seeing right now. And the political uplift to get the John Lewis Voting Rights Act done was in the aftermath of January 6th. You shut down the government. You don't let anything else come across the floor until they pass that.

You attach that bill to every single budget that you dare to try to pass. You don't be able to. Yes, you do exactly what you do exactly with Congressman Powell. Adam Clayton Powell did when he was called the Powell Amendment. He attached it to every bill. But again, this is the difference between, this is what I keep saying if you want to compare parties. Democrats are playing by a set of traditional accepted rules.

Republicans are playing a game where there are no rules. Right. And their whole deal is, we don't care. We will be as ruthless as we need to be because we are trying to, one, get power,

use power, to cement power. So... The analogy that I've always made, Roland, THE DEMOCRATS ARE LIKE, YOU HAVE A CHESS BOARD UP YOUR ASS. YOU HAVE TO USE POWER, USE POWER TO SUBMIT POWER. SO. GO AHEAD. THE ANALOGY I'VE ALWAYS MADE, ROLAND, IS THEY'RE PLAYING CHESS, RIGHT?

THE DEMOCRATS ARE PLAYING CHESS AND THEY MAKE A MOVE AND THE DEMOCRATS SAY CHECKMATE, REPUBLICANS, CHECKMATE. AND REPUBLICANS KNOCK OVER THE CHESS PEOPLE AND SHOVE THE CHESS BOARD UP A DEMOCRAT'S ASS AND SAYS CHECKMATE THAT. people and shoved the chessboard up a Democrat's ass and says, checkmate that. Yep. Democrats are like, technically you lost. And the Republicans are like, don't care.

You have a chessboard up your ass now. Yeah. I mean, and so people, no, but he's right. I mean, look, we can sit here and laugh about it, but he's right. I mean, and that is when you get power, you exercise power. You use power. I mean, it's just simple as that. I mean, I don't care.

Listen, folks, I've covered city hall, county government, state, federal. I've talked to officials at every single level. This ain't even, even we're talking in organizations. When you have power, you use power. They're playing, they're playing nice. This is not a moment where you play nice. No, this is a moment where you have to understand that the actions today have generational impact. And so when Ellie says you go to the mat, yes, you go to the mat.

And you have to understand... One of the reasons why Trump is popular, like, people forget this. Like, it's one of the reasons why they like him, because Trump is not an effective leader, right? He's not an effective executive. He has no ability to bend the legislature to his will, but he uses power

maximally. And people see it. People see him doing essentially everything he can, fair or unfair, to get what he wants through, right? Doesn't have to be legal, doesn't have to be traditional, doesn't have to be normal. He does it anyway. He's not effective. They're not good plans. But people see him, and people are going to see it again, right? Because after going through four years of Merrick Garland and what he could do and what he couldn't do and, oh my God, and maybe, and maybe we should write a letter and all that, watch what happens when Stephen Miller is in charge of the Justice Department. Watch what happens when Mike Davis is in charge of the Justice Department. Watch what happens when Trey Gowdy is in charge of

the Justice Department. I promise you, Trey Gowdy is in charge of the Justice Department. I promise you, they won't be sending mean letters. No. Right? No. And you can get... And let's be real clear, the Civil Rights Division will be gutted.

You will have no patterns and practices investigations of police departments. Roland, I hope it's gutted. I hope it's gutted. The best case scenario... The best case scenario I hope it's gutted. I hope it's gutted. The best case scenario is that it's gutted. The worst case scenario, the scenario that is outlined in Project 2025, is that it is weaponized against Black people. Project 2025 talks about changing the civil rights division to suing organizations and institutions that, quote,

use DEI as racist against white folks. The civil rights battle for Project 2025 is racism against white people, and they want to use the civil rights division to do that. So it's like, I hope it's gutted, because it's going to be real bad when Ben Shapiro is the one running it, right? Absolutely. Ellie Mishtel. We appreciate it, Ellie. Get some rest. Rejuvenate.

Relax. A bunch of folks called me today and they were like, man, chicken, how you feeling? Man, you were really working in the campaign. I said, listen, let me explain something to you. I said, first of all, I'm fine. They said, well, what, how you feeling? Man, you were really working in the campaign. I said, listen, let me explain something to you. I said, first of all, I'm fine. They said, well, what are you focused on? I said, I'm focused on losing 20 pounds from the campaign. I said, because you couldn't work out, you couldn't eat,

you were going so hard. So I said, so that's the first thing. I said, getting at least seven hours of sleep. I said, but let's be real clear. I said, I will be part of the resistance. I very much understand what's coming down and don't think for a second that I'm walking off the battlefield because that ain't happening.

It ain't happening. Elliot, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, Rowan. Thanks a lot, guys. The question was asked by, I think it was you, Matt. Maybe it was Michael. I can't remember. One of you asked in terms of what's next, in terms of, okay, what do Democrats do?

It's actually not complicated. It's called going back to basics. And what I mean by going back to basics, what I mean is you look at the map and you cannot examine the map from a national perspective. Now, everybody listen to me, what I'm talking about. So if I sit here and look at, like I was just reading a story. So Democrats were nine votes away from taking control

of the Texas House. Colin Allred spends $80 million just to lose by 900,000 votes to Ted Cruz. Didn't even campaign to black people. So that was a waste of money. So if I'm sitting here looking at, you know, licking my wounds and I'm looking at the map and I'm sitting here going, okay, what happens next? Because the likelihood is there are some outstanding races in California, but Republicans are likely going to take control of the House. They'll have the Senate.

They'll have the White House, which means they have a federal judiciary for at least the next two years. So on the federal level, look, you can't really stop anything unless there are certain things in the Senate that require 60 votes. But I wouldn't be surprised if Republicans say, to hell with that.

Damn that threshold. We're going to pass it with 51. I wouldn't be shocked at all. So you now go back to the map and go to my iPad. So you go to this map and you go, okay, and this is just, I pulled it up, this is not the actual Electoral College map, but here's what you do. You stop looking at this from a national standpoint. So what you do is you sit here and I'm tapping it.

So you see Virginia right there? I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves.

We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad.

That's Dadication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. What I do is I go, there are elections next year in Virginia. 23 Democrats took control of the House in Virginia, and they control the Senate. So what do you do? You focus on Virginia and keeping the House, and Don Scott remains Speaker of the House. That's what you do.

There's a state Supreme Court seat in Wisconsin. Right now, Democrats have a four to three majority. You know what you do? You win that seat to go 5-2. You then begin to look at other states and begin to say, where are the mayoral elections, city council elections, county elections, state Senate, gubernatorial, those races? That's actually what you do.

You have to, you grab power where you can grab power. Let's take North Carolina. Democrats did not, Vice President Kamala Harris, and let's just talk about the white folks in North Carolina. Okay, Democrats won a slate of offices, but they voted for all these people but not the top of the ticket. in North Carolina, Democrats won a slate of offices, but they voted for all these people, but not the top of the ticket.

That's real interesting. That's another conversation. So you now go, OK, in North Carolina on Tuesday, Democrats did not take control of the House or the Senate, but they did win enough races to reduce the Republicans so now they no longer have a supermajority. So now the Republicans can't overrule the governor with a veto-proof majority. That's what you do.

You now begin to look at the map and begin to study the map and say, where do we go to get wins? Because when the question was asked by Michael about voting, y'all, voting in America really still is a state issue, a county issue. So now you begin to understand what we go after. And that's really how folk have to be thinking. You can't be fixated on 2028, Matt, if you skip 25, 26, 27.

You've got to focus on 25 to then focus on the midterms in 26 and then focus on the local races in 27 and then focus on those local, state, and the national races in 2028. That's actually the path forward. Matt? Yeah, I'm sorry, Roland.

I can't see you, so I apologize if I missed that cue. But I think, you know, in any event, I think that we need to focus more on systems. That's one of the things I think you've spoken to before and you spoke to right then is we need to look at every aspect of it. Not only where do you get wins, but what parts of the system need to be leveraged to be successful. And like we've talked about, you know, here in the local county that I live in, when I moved here 13 years ago, it was blue. It went almost all red this time. It's now, it used to be purple. Now it's straight up red. All these people lost. And I tell you that to say that's because the Republicans had a concerted

approach to attack every single part of the system, every single element and layer of local government. They threw a bunch of money in and they just attacked every single thing. And I think sometimes what we do as Democrats is we too often focus on the outcome and trying to play the game the right way to get to the outcome, where Republicans have historically, or at least in the last several decades, focused on the systems, every part of the system. How do you change the rules? How do you get the actual position? How do you change this from an individual to a board, and then you stack that board with gubernatorial appointment? I mean, every aspect of it.

So when we have a more systemic approach, I think it will yield the results along with the strategy of not only where do you get votes, but I think we also have to have a serious conversation about the abolishment of the electoral college. I mean, it's crazy. I know that this time Mr. Trump did not lose the popular vote, but it's still crazy that you can have an outcome where you have a popular vote that's lost and somebody still wins because of the electoral college. We can talk about that, you know, in terms of a system. But in this day and age, I don't know that it serves the same purpose that it should, because we essentially live in a globalized country. You know, it's a series of states. But having each of these little rules that apply as it

relates to electors and who gets to vote and all of that, I mean, it makes it a more cumbersome process than I think it should be. And I think we need to have a serious conversation about that from a system. Well, I mean, I get that. But here's here's why for me, I can't waste any breath on Electoral College, because that requires a constitutional amendment. Exactly. And that means I got to get it passed in the House, passed in the Senate, but what? Two-thirds, president signs it, and then it has to then get approved by three-fourths of all states. And let's be real state.

Let's be real clear, okay? Again, people I just, people talk about it. Let me go back to this map here. So let me go ahead and change. So Trump won Arizona. Trump won Nevada. Trump won Idaho. So let me

change that. Colorado, New Mexico. Minnesota. Okay. He wins Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, gotcha. He wins Pennsylvania. So, right here, here's why Littoral College ain't gonna get changed. Because

Idaho, Idaho, four. Montana, four. North Dakota, three. South Dakota, three. Nebraska, five. But four, North Dakota 3. South Dakota 3. Nebraska 5 but 4 red 1. Kansas 6. Iowa 6. Then you got

you got again you got Wyoming again Utah 6. Nevada 6. Go ahead Arkansas 6. Mississippi 6. Alabama 9. Arkansas, six. Mississippi, six. Alabama, nine. West Virginia, four. Kentucky, eight. Anybody under 10 electoral college votes, ain't none of them voting for that.

Because remember, Republicans win control because of land. And if you actually go back, North Dakota and South Dakota, they were split specifically to cement power. There's no reason why North Dakota and South Dakota are two separate states.

Those are little bitty ass states. Okay? But the folks who live there, they have electoral power because they are locked in. And so ain't none of them. I'll tell you right now. Nevada, Utah, two, Idaho, three, Montana, four, Wyoming, five, North Dakota, six, South Dakota, seven, Nebraska, eight, Kansas, nine, Iowa, ten, Arkansas, eleven, Mississippi, twelve, Alabama, thirteen, Kentucky, fourteen, West 10, Arkansas 11, Mississippi 12, Alabama 13, Kentucky 14, West Virginia 15.

That's 15 of the 50 states. Ain't none of them voting because they're going to say, oh, well, no one will ever pay any attention. But here's the crazy thing. No one pays attention to those states right now anyway because the election now every every is now only a seven state thing it's pretty much oh i can't win texas i can't win this i can't win that i'm just gonna go ahead ignore it and so that's what's going on there but i'm gonna go back to this point kelly why why again people are despondent they're angry they're frustrated they They're upset. But the reality is you go back to basics because power is still power. Power in a mayoral race, power in terms of city council, power in terms of school districts, power in terms of county races, power in terms of state races. You have to chip away at this. Yes, Republicans in a lot of these red states have gerrymandered districts to guarantee them, but look what happened in Wisconsin.

In Wisconsin, they flipped the state's Supreme Court. And what happened by flipping the state's Supreme Court? They ruled against political gerrymandering. Then they ruled against their ballot drop boxes. If they win in April,

they can go from, Democrats can go from being down 4-3 to being up 5-2. North Carolina, that was a time when North Carolina, they actually had a 6-1 majority. Then Sherri Beasley, when she lost by 401 votes, it went

to 4-3. Next election, it went, it flipped, Republican 4-3. Now it's 5-2. And they're duking out in one of the races there. And so this is where folk have to understand you can't ignore races like state Supreme Court races because when you control the state Supreme Court

you control the people who make determinations about the laws of the state. So that's why I'm saying folk got to just reassess and go, wait a minute. How can I now look at this thing differently?

Because you have to understand it starts with having power and winning power. True. But at the moment, as far as Democrats are concerned, who has power? It's the establishment

of the Democratic Party, right? Well, on a federal level. On a federal level, yes. But I'm talking about how do you take local power, which then local power leads to state power, state power leads to federal power. That's what I'm talking about. I know that's what you're talking about,

but what I was getting at was money, right? Because I've been on the ground in North money, right? Because I've been on the ground in North Carolina on campaign trails. I've been on the ground in Maryland when it comes to campaign trails. And the common denominator when it came to even local elections winning was getting money from Dems, right? Getting money from the establishment of Dems. And if they don't understand what you are talking about in this segment, that power needs to be executed and not hoarded, and that we shouldn't be taking our tears for granted, and that we shouldn't be taking for granted an entire voting base just because,

you know, it is innate that we will not go to the GOP, if they don't understand that, then I don't know if this is going to happen. No, no, no, hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on. But you said North Carolina, right? Mm-hmm. But it did. What I'm actually talking about, that actually happened this year.

This year, Democrats, Republicans right now, have a super majority in North Carolina, meaning they can override any Democratic veto. Democrats focus on state races. They were able to break the super majority. They won. Give me one second. Let me pull it up.

Let me find it. Timeline, give me content. Let me pull the data up what you actually saw Results in data. Come on. Let me launch the election results dashboard Okay election so so when I look at North Carolina, I Know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding

of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corps vet. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working,

and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position.

Pre-game to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at this is pre-tirement.org brought to you by aarp and the ad council this year display results office council of state so when i look at, go to my iPad. This is the actual results in North Carolina this year. I can't see anything. Okay, I'm not sure. Guys, y'all figure out why they can't see.

But I'll tell you, in the governor's race, Josh Stein, the Democrat, won governor. Lieutenant governor's race. Remember, you have a Democratic governor right now, the Democrat, won governor. Lieutenant governor's race. Remember, you have a Democratic governor right now, Roy Cooper, and a Republican lieutenant governor, Mark Robinson. Well, with the election, there's now a Democrat lieutenant governor. The attorney general

in North Carolina is Jeff Jackson, Democrat. The state auditor is Democrat. Agriculture commissioner, the Republican one. Commissioner of insurance, Democrat one. Sorry, Republican one. The commissioner of labor, Republican one.

Secretary of state, Democrat one. Superintendent of public education, Democrat one. And the treasurer, Republican one. So those are the state races. That's a perfect example of so Democrats in North Carolina won the major races in the state. They clawed back some races on the state representative level and so now Republicans don't have a total lock on the state. So what I'm saying, so what I described, that's what they did in North Carolina.

I'm not disputing what they did in North Carolina, but North Carolina was able to do that because of money. North Carolina was already considered a battleground state that the established Democratic Party saw as worth investing in. You have an entire Bible Belt that the Democratic Party establishment just kind of writes off as a red state and does not actively invest in the Dems on the ground trying to flip it blue. Georgia was the first time in years where that happened. That's how it flipped blue in 2020. But they're not doing that for Mississippi. They're not doing that for Louisiana. They're not doing that for Tennessee and Arkansas. They're not doing it for the Bible Belt. That's my point.

They're not. But Georgia flipped because they didn't wait on national. That's exactly what I'm talking about. They didn't wait on. They also had an infrastructure strong enough to do that as well. No, no. It's kind of a chicken and egg situation. No, no. They created the infrastructure. It's exactly what I'm talking about.

What they did in Georgia every... In 2012, after the election, I'm at CNN. Chris Van... Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, who was over the DCCC, is waiting to go on. And I say to him, man, when are you guys going to invest in building an infrastructure in Georgia and Texas?

I said there are 2.1 million eligible Latinos in Texas unregistered. There are more black eligible voters in Texas than any state in the country. He goes by Texas and Georgia they're red. I said, they're red because you're not organized. He blew it off. So what do the Georgia people do? They stop waiting on national campaigns.

They said, we're going to create an infrastructure. We're going to go raise the money and we're going to do it. And when I'm laying out here, Michael, while people are out here, Michael, while people are sitting here, you see Gary Chambers with his videos as well. Folks are sitting here like,

oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, what do we do? And what I'm saying is how you win is by going back to basics, which is local. You focus on winning local power. You build your infrastructure, and when you go from winning local to state, you go state to national. You begin to take back. The reason Texas is where it is, Matt said it. In 2020, the Republicans start investing heavily in counties along the border.

That's why the map flipped. Democrats, just assume we got it. Nola Haynes on election night warned us, y'all, California is getting redder and redder. And if you look up the map, that's the case. So what I am arguing, while people are sitting here mad and frustrated, I get it. Go through your grieving process.

But stop focusing on 2028 and start saying, what races are happening next year in my city and in my county? And then if I'm black, let me look at the turnout. Let me look at who turned out. Because let's be real clear.

Vice President Kamala Harris got more votes in Wisconsin than Biden got in 2020. Trump got 77,000 more. She lost by 30,000 votes in Wisconsin. If I'm sitting here going, huh, what was the turnout in Milwaukee? What was the turnout in the other cities with big black population? She loses in Michigan by some 80,000 votes. If I'm sitting here looking at, if I'm in Michigan, I'm going, hmm, why did Detroit turn out at 47%? Maybe if I get Detroit from 47% to 70%, that makes up for whatever he got. Let me look at Pennsylvania.

How did she lose Pennsylvania? Oh, what was turnout in Philly? Oh, was it down 10, 15 points? And if I got Philly black turnout from whatever the number it is, and I can't wait to see what it is, if I move it to 70, that actually makes a difference. What I'm saying is people should be sitting here, not just losing their minds and going crazy, but saying, you know what?

Let me focus on the next race and elect my guy, and elect my woman, elect my person, and stop trying to focus on, oh, my God, what's going to happen over the next four years? Go local and build. Yeah, you have to build power where you live. Build power locally, run for those local elections, raise money for those local elections,

whether it's school boards, city council, mayor, et cetera, county executive, county commissioners, things of this nature, state legislature as well. So, a couple things here quickly. So, I saw the video from Gary Chambers, okay? A friend of mine sent that to me, and I saw people on my social media platforms talking about it. And I think what Gary Chambers is talking about is extremely important. And we've talked about this here on this show. I've said it as well. We have to focus on building this black political infrastructure. And I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, but also understand how to use Democrats as

a tool to accomplish what it is that we want. So what Gary Chambers was saying, 55 percent of African Americans live in southern states, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, things like that. And he was saying, instead of—and I'm paraphrasing—instead of spending more money to chase white women and white people in the blue wall states, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, things like that, invest that money in Mississippi, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, things like that, invest that money in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, et cetera, where you have a higher concentration of African-Americans. Target African-Americans. Get them to turn out.

Get those numbers out. And you can win a lot of those states now that are red. But before, Michael, but before you can ask people to invest nationally in Alabama, you're going to have to have people in Alabama organize Alabama. Oh, I agree. We had, I did a panel in Mobile, Alabama, Friday. Congresswoman Ter Terry Sewell was on the panel and she talked about the state

of disarray the Alabama Democratic Party is in. She said that they are in an utter state of disarray. And so my deal is, what you do is, you have to tell people, you have to tell people to tell them, hey, you got to

organize where you are and build from there. You can't wait for the folk national come down to you if you ain't got nothing for them to invest in. I agree. I agree. And I think Georgia, what Georgia did when they built that infrastructure in Georgia, Stacey Abrams and Nse Ufa and the rest of those activists down there, I think that can serve as a model for us to replicate in other states, but especially those southern states that have a large African-American population. OK, but I totally agree. You've got to feel that infrastructure locally.

Right, but see, again, so what I'm laying out, what I'm laying out that's, again, that frustrates people is that what I hear from people is, oh, you know, oh, my God, what do we do? Oh, my God, what do we do? And they're frustrated. And I get all of that. And what I'm saying is the way you do this is in terms of how do you organize local?

And it's just this is what I look at this here, Matt. And I guess the reason I'm stuck on this, because I'm the son of two people who co-founded a civic club in our neighborhood. So there's nothing more local. There's nothing more local than a neighborhood. Because I always say nation, state, city, block, street, house. That's literally in terms of how we're built. And I saw how they wanted to transform

our neighborhood of Clinton Park. And they transformed the neighborhood by first saying, I need to get with like-minded people. Then like-minded people said, we need to create an organization. Then like-minded people created the organization. It was the Clinton Park Civic Club. They met in houses.

They then went, okay, what are we going to work on? Well, first thing we're going to do, we're going to do a trash pickup. We're not going to pick up trash on every street in the neighborhood. We're going to pick up trash on one street in the neighborhood. We're going to pick up trash on one street in the neighborhood. That's what they did. In the next month, okay, let's do two streets. In the next month, let's do three streets. They didn't go from picking up trash to saying.

I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott.

And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Cor vet. MMA fighter Liz Karamush.

What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content,

subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them.

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Oh, is that city or is that county? Who condemns the property? Oh, you know what? We're going to go. Got it. Then they focused on that. Then they said, Oh, you know what? We're going to go. Got it. Then they focused on that. Then they said, well, you know what? Man, we did this and we did that.

That worked out. You know what? We really need some stepped up police patrols. Well, who's the police commander over this in the community? Who is he? We're going to meet him. We're going to get his number. We're going to talk to him. So when we got a he? We're going to meet him. We're going to get his number. We're going to talk to him.

So when we got a problem, we're going to call directly to you. Now, they weren't saying call a governor, call a county judge, call a mayor. No, it was let me look at it this way. And then when it came to, they said, well, you know, we need some, we want some new sidewalks. And we want some new sewer systems. And we want some new street lights. And we want the park refurbished. And we want that old firehouse turned into a senior citizen center.

Oh, city council member said, get all that, bond election. Okay, petition, guess what happened? It was add to the bond election. Bond, petition, guess what happened? It was add to the bond election. Bond election, what did they do? They campaigned in the neighborhood for the bond election. Bond election passed. Guess what happened? New streets, new sidewalks, new sewer system,

park got refurbished, senior citizens got rebuilt. That's how that community changed. Now imagine multiple communities in a city. Now you're talking about your city changes. And so I just want people who are watching and listening to understand what I'm describing. This is literally how politics works as well.

And so you can't worry about a presidential is every four years. A gubernatorial is every four years. U.S. Senate race is every six years. Congress gubernatorial is every four years. U.S. Senate races every six years. Congressional is every two. So people have to be thinking this way as opposed to believing you know what, there's

nothing that I can do to change the direction of the country for another four years when in fact wherever somebody's listening to me right now, there's likely an election next year if only they focus on it. Look, there's two things on that that I think are so important. The first thing is when you have that galvanized support on the lowest local level, you also have the, you create the greatest danger for those local politicians because when their precinct is comprised of, you know, 10,000 votes,

15,000 votes, whatever, if you've got a few hundred angry people that could turn the tide easily. So in terms of accountability, you know, I've been involved in politics locally where I live and the most uncomfortable time for any politician is when he or she has to go to the local community center and they got to hear the seniors who are mad about their trash not being picked up on time or whatever else, right? Because that's what turns into what imperils them and their seat and their retention of power. So you're 100 percent right about that. But the second part of that that I've seen locally here with our local library board is some of the stuff that's

happening at the top of the tickets on the national level, some of the crazy policies, can be defeated on the local level. Because like I've said, these politicians in the Republican Party, particularly here in Texas, has honed in on things like school boards and the library boards, all of these social policies that they're attacking, they're going down to the smallest level to try to implement some of those policies. They can be defeated on a one-to-one basis in these small communities when people come up and say, no, you're not going to turn our library board into some fascist propaganda machine. We're going to vote that person out, or we're going to overrule that or make that a proposition issue. So your point is

extremely well taken. I think sometimes the fact that they're a part of these larger political machines that reach all the way up to whoever's in the White House desensitizes us to the fact that on the local level is where we have the most accountability and the most ability to affect change. And the thing here is, so like perfect example, so some dude, Rob, he goes, Roland, you're describing and losing the strategy. How? What I'm literally describing is how you actually win. Not only that, that's what Stephen K. Bannon said.

Right. I mean, like literally, there's another guy, some guy, Rayford, I never hear you discuss reparations. Okay, Rayford, this is very simple. How are you going to get it? Rayford, Rayford, Rayford, you can't even describe it. And I'm just going to give you a very basic primer here. The U.S. Constitution states that any bill regarding monetary begins in the House.

The bill begins in the House. The bill begins in the House. Who controls the House? Republicans. Republicans. Rayford, can you name me one Republican that supports reparations? Take your time. So what are we now about to happen, Rayford?

Oh, by the way, the House has to pass it. The Senate has to pass it. The Senate has to pass it. The president has to sign it. And then it's going to be challenged in the courts, which means it'll go to the Supreme Court. Right now, Rayford, there's a six to three conservative majority on the Supreme Court. So, Rayford, please tell me how you're gonna get it. But here's the other deal, Rayford, for some of y'all out here who keep saying, I ain't getting, I ain't voting till I get it.

Let me help you out here, Rayford. The folks who win are the ones who vote on it. So therefore, if you don't elect enough people in Congress on the House side, on the Senate side, to accept your position, you're never going to get it. And if you don't elect the person in the White House who accepts your position, you're not going to get it. So again, please tell me how you're going to do it. See, that's why

some of y'all just throw some stuff out. Yes. And y'all just like, why does it happen? I ain't doing this until I see it happen. It's not going to happen if you don't vote. Because the people who get elected are the ones who voted up or down. Yeah. Can I address that, Roland? Yeah.

Go ahead. I actually did a presentation for the Detroit Reparations Task Force, and they asked me to do it, okay? Most people that talk about reparations,and I may step on some toes, but I really don't care—most of them don't understand reparations, okay? The root concept of reparations is to repair damage that was done, okay? You first have to analyze the actual damage that was done and the laws and policies put in place that inflicted the harm to understand what you're trying to repair. The structural inequities that exist today, they are the legacy of slavery, OK? When you deal with the 8-to-1 racial wealth gap, when you deal with the homeownership

gap, things of this nature, when you deal with the legacy of African-American farmers losing their land, things like this, because they were discriminated against from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, et cetera. When you look at the $2.2 billion that went to African-American farmers and farmers of color that was in the Inflation Reduction Act to start to address decades of discrimination, that is part of repairing the damage. No Republicans in the House or the Senate voted for the Inflation Reduction Act, OK? So you have to understand how to attack the structural inequities that exist today and put laws and policies in place to do

that. Just thinking that you're going to get cash payments or get $27 trillion, whatever the hell number you want to put on it, that's not going to happen. Because also, when you study Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Section 601, non-discrimination and federally assisted programs, race-based policies are illegal at the federal level. So, thinking that you're going to get massive cash payments, trillions of dollars for the descendants of African Americans, that's not going to happen. It's not going to pass the House. It's not going to pass the Senate.

You need 60 votes in the Senate. No Republicans support reparations, OK? Then, if somehow it does pass and get signed into law, it's going to be overturned by a 6-3 conservative Supreme Court. So, people really have to understand the process of how to repair the damage that's been done. But a lot of this stuff out here—and I'm just going to be honest. I don't care who doesn't like it. A lot of people are pimping reparations, and they're preying on Black people's emotions out here. Now, you do have a lot of African Americans, I know them,

who are very sincere, and they've been involved in the struggle for decades. But you also have some reparations pimps out here as well. You got to be able to distinguish the two. Kelly, he's very interesting. See, this is why I love when when I love these people who assume that, you know, that I don't put it to the comments. Oh, but I do. So Peter Groff posted this in our chat. He said, What Roland Martin has described is exactly what we did in Colorado in the early 2000s,

and the state has been blue for the last 24 years. We built a local infrastructure first, then the DNC came in. When I hit three churches in Detroit on Sunday, what I said to them was, you literally have power if you use it. I talked about hitting at 70%. When I was in Mobile, Alabama, legal folks fought to create a second district,

but it's an opportunity district. It's not a black district, but 45% of the district is black. Shamari figures wins that seat. He didn't win it by a lot. I think it's about 5,000 votes, but he won it. And so, how do you keep winning it?

You keep voting and holding the folks accountable. So then we start talking about, again, local races and building infrastructure. A lot of our people, and I heard this, because I was in Milwaukee,

I was in Detroit, I was in Detroit, I was in, again, Mobile, Alabama, was in North Carolina, was in Pennsylvania, was in Texas, was in Ohio, was in Georgia. And people would often come to me and they would be frustrated and they would say, oh, these things are not happening, and these are not happening, and we can't get investment, and we can't do this sort of stuff.

And I told them what we did with Win With Black Men. And I had a brother say, well, yeah, but I need you to do the call. I said, why do you need me to do the call? Yeah, because, see, a lot of folks know you. I said, do you know 30 brothers? Yeah. I said, well, then do your call. And he looked at me like I was crazy. You should do the call right where you live with the 30 brothers and have the 30 brothers invite at least one brother each.

And your second call is going to have 60 brothers. a lot of people is they actually don't is getting them to actually believe that they can be empowered to change this game without asking or without waiting for permission yes these the power hold on kelly kelly go ahead I'm sorry. Yeah. I certainly see your point. I just think that a majority of Americans in general, not just black Americans, but any marginalized group. Your examples so far include those who either already have money, already have a wherewithal, already have a mindset to change. Actually, that's not true. My parents didn't have money. The example that I described of the seven or eight people who started a civic club, only one person went to college.

A brother went to Rice University. These people didn't have money. Now, you're right. They had a desire to change, but their desire was a very small one, and it built from there. But they didn't have money. They didn't have money.

I mean, I remember hand-making signs, so I know they didn't have money. I understand what you're saying, And I'm not trying to come up with excuses. That's not where I'm getting at with this. But those who actually need the change don't have that mindset. So how do you reach them? Easy. They just get left behind. No, we we we have this very conversation and then people spread this conversation, and people take it. In fact, somebody else commented. They said, oh, my God, my sister, she met Roland.

This is exactly what they did. I've literally traveled the country and met people who watched this show who said, we did exactly what y'all talked about, and it worked. So part of the problem, I think, is that we're not having this granular, small, local-based conversation enough. It's always this national discussion where you've got to raise $100 million, and then otherwise it can't work. I just think we have to encourage people that wherever you are right now watching or listening, you literally can change the political environment where you are,

but you have to start to get with like-minded people. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st.

And episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette.

MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth.

Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. And just start. But you don't need a lot of money. You don't need big names. You don't need concerts.

You just got to actually pull enough people together to say, yo, y'all care about the same thing? Well, man, let's go and change this. I just want people to start. I just want people not to be so frustrated that they think they're powerless.

And that's what I mean. Go ahead. No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm coming back to Kelly because I have to ask her something. Go ahead. I think at the root of this, Roland, a big part of this is that African Americans have to think that they are worth fighting for. Okay? for, OK? Because when you consume music and imagery that dehumanizes you and calls you all

types of derogatory names, things like this, you think—some of us may think that we are not—don't deserve to have more, and this is just how it's going to be. So, you first have to have the mindset that you are worth fighting for, and this is worth fighting for for your children, your grandchildren, et cetera. So I just wanted to say that. And then I don't I wanted to just address something with the Japanese Americans. No, no, no, I can't. I got a guest waiting. So

go ahead. So there are a lot of there are a lot of black a lot of students. And we don't know clearly where this is emanating from the FBI's investigating. There's text messages going around. People are getting sent a show for the plantation on a certain date, whatever. And there are some college students, and I've heard from a lot of different people, and they're saying that, oh, my goodness, these young folks, they're scared.

They're scared about what's going to happen. And one of the things that I'm hearing and seeing is that these different groups, especially on HBCU campuses, where they're saying, okay, we didn't get the result that we wanted, but we're going to be around for another 50, 60, 70 years, and so we can't check out right now, because this is still our country. Your thoughts about that attitude? The attitude regarding the text messages?

No, no, regarding young, I've heard some students who said, listen, I know some of my peers are really devastated, really upset because Vice President Kamala Harris lost, but they're also looking at the fact that, yo, you got another 40, 50, 60, 70 years on this earth. What you going to do? For sure. And, like, I applaud those people who think that way.

But at my juncture, I just don't. You know, I am tired. I am worn the fuck out. And I hate saying it that way, but my God, I'm tired. I have so much on my plate. And this is not me

to complain and vent and bitch and moan about it, but I think about what millennials alone have gone through just since 2001. Starting with 9-11. We have gone through just since 2001, starting with 9-11. We have gone through unprecedented times every fucking time, right?

We haven't caught a break. And for this election to be that one more unprecedented time, like, how much more do you want from me? Like, I'm just fucking tired. and i know i'm not the only one who feels that way because i'm talking to people who are also just fucking tired so these young babies want to take up the mantle and fight on because they feel like they got 70 plus years on this earth i don't know if we got 70 plus years on this earth frankly our water is about to be some shit our infrastructure you're about to be some, our water's about to be some shit. Our infrastructure is about to be some shit.

Our jobs are about to be gone. It's like, what exactly are you fighting for besides dignity and humanity? That is worth fighting for. I want to be clear. But where are you going to exercise that if everything else is laid to waste? That's not hyperbole.

So I get what you're saying. I get we need to start on a granular level like our grandparents did, et cetera, et cetera, and build our way up, but we haven't even had a break to do that. My God, you said your parents didn't have money. They had a house. My generation is the first generation

that didn't have a house. So I'll say this. I'll say I'll say this I'll say this there is zero what we I say we post civil rights movement generation so my birthday is Wednesday born November 1468 There literally is nothing that we have endured since 68 that can remotely compare to anything before 68. It ain't even close. Not even close. And so what I would say to anybody, I get being tired. I get being frustrated. I get all of that.

But the one thing that I am absolutely thankful for is that there were folk before us who were tired, who were tired of getting their ass kicked, who were tired of dogs, who were tired of going into department stores and couldn't try on clothes, who were tired of having degrees from HPCUs and they couldn't go work in corporate America, and they were forced to be janitors or teachers, or the folks who actually were in the military

who fought for the country and they couldn't take advantage of the GI Bill, the one thing I am thankful for is they didn't get tired. And when they were tired, they kept going. And so I remember when I was on the board of NABJ and we went after CNN, and I wanted to use a clip of something

that Bernard Shaw said. And Bernard Shaw said to me, Roland, it's simply y'all's time. Every generation has had its moment. It's now your turn. And what I will say to every millennial and every Gen Z, it's now your turn. You are going to have to fight for this the same way the folk who position you where you are had to fight for it.

And thank God they did not quit. And some did. But I'm glad a lot didn't. And I'm glad they persevered. And I'm glad a lot didn't. And I'm glad they persevered. And I'm glad they fought through. But they absolutely got their asses whooped. They couldn't even look white folks in the eye walking down the street. They had to actually step aside.

They actually, the stuff that, it pales in comparison. But thank goodness they kept fighting. One of the places where we're guaranteed to have a fight, student loan debt. $170 billion forgiven by Biden-Harris. And don't think for a second that the Trump folks are not going to try to claw that money back. Pull up my next guest, Sonia Lewis, Dr. Sonia Lewis from Philadelphia.

Sonia, folk, there are a lot of people who got upset with Biden-Harris because they did not get rid of all student loan debt. We got to remind people what happened here. That a Supreme Court said they couldn't. Right. Folks should be prepared when the Trump folk try to come and get that money. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

Your thoughts. Thank you for having me. So the money that was given out on average overall was actually instituted through acts from Lyndon B. Johnson in 1965. So a lot of that money is protected through programs that have been grandfathered and created way before Biden. That's the good news. Programs like public service loan forgiveness, programs like borrows defense, that was already established before Biden around when Trump was in office last time, definitely there with Obama. And so I'm not quite worried about money being taken back as I am concerned about what's going to happen moving

forward, especially when we hear Trump talk about his plans of dismantling the DOE. So because again, that was one of the things that was constantly talked about during the campaign, and we also got to realize that, look, these Republicans, they want to slash Pell Grants. They want to slash student loans. And so we are about to see an assault on higher education that we have not seen, I dare say, since Ronald Reagan was president. Yeah. There were some things in the prior Trump administration that he wanted to have to come past.

One of the things when he had as a secretary of education, Betsy DeVos in office, one of her first things she did, it was very, very low-key, was that she had dismantled the investigating body of the CFPB over the Navient complaints and cases. And now the Biden administration has actually restored that entity of the CFPB. So that's very good news. And what does that mean? Basically, those that were wronged by Navient are now going to see some justice. Now, I do want to say this. When we talk about what's coming up with the DOE that was established by Jimmy Carter, the focus of the Pell Grant and Title I funding, that's on the chopping block. And so when we talk about making college affordable for our particularly minority students,

that's going to be a big issue. That's going to make it to where states are going to have to rev up funding. And I want to be very clear that Trump is not anti-education. He's anti-federal government involvement. And so that's where we want to clarify things for people. Why is that important? Because you need to now know with whoever you put in place at the state level, if this were to come to pass? How do they feel about education funding? What does your state grant look like? What are the requirements there in terms of income if the Pell Grant were to be reduced or eliminated? Well, they do have some much different views about education. Oh, yeah, well, I can talk about that, too, for sure.

What they really want is money going to religious religious schools. And luckily, on Tuesday, three different states shot down these these private vouchers in their state, which they listed under school choice. But that wasn't no real school choice. But folks just got to be ready for that. So any questions about student loans for our panel? I'll start with you, Matt. Yeah, my question is, how realistically could Mr. Biden just wipe away student loan debt? I paid my student loans the other day and I keep thinking if this is a time for presidential immunity, it is getting rid of my student loan debt. But jokes aside, I mean, is there anything that this administration could do in the short term or that you anticipate they might do in the short term to alleviate stress for people who are paying student loans?

So technically, that's a great question. He has authority under the 1965 Higher Education Act to do so with Secretary Cardona. It would just cause a big uproar. And to be very honest with you, I don't know, like, let's say tomorrow he actually put that act through as an act he could do, right? But then it's like, by the time they actually cleared your student loan debt, could that happen before January 20th? And what type of litigation and legal troubles could it face and be kind of where we're already at?

So what we want to focus on is what can you take advantage of now that is in place still What type of litigation and legal troubles could it face and be kind of where we're already at? So what we want to focus on is what can you take advantage of now that is in place still before January 20th? You must act like your student loans are on fire. And so what that means is you need to be aware of what repayment plans are available to you. The SAVE plan is on hold. And I'm going to be honest with you, I don't think it's coming back. That was the plan that was supposed to forgive and also reduce student loan payments. So now we have to look at some affordable options. The next thing is, are you in a place where you can receive credit for public service loan forgiveness?

There's a program called T-E-P-S-L-F, Temporary Expanded Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Well, that program technically ended in October of 22, but the Biden administration has kept it on with some provisions, but that may go away. So all of the people that are watching tonight, if you ever worked in a non- or not-for-profit field, education, government, 2007 to 2022 of October, you need to get that credit for working in those fields now, regardless if you ever made a payment, as long as you were in good stand or not in school. We've got the Borrower's Defense Program that you may be eligible for. That program is really, really important to tap into because there are so many schools, about 250 of them, that were found to be doing wrongdoing. And so if you went to a school like the University of Phoenix or DeVry, these schools are listed online on

studentaid.gov. You need to put that application in. Everything that could be possibly eligible for, that you could be eligible for, you've got to get that in before January 20th. And the last thing is making sure that everybody understands the status of their loans. A lot of people have not logged in since pandemic times to studentaid.gov. You need to know if you are in default. How is this going to impact your credit, your home buying? And so how realistic is it to get some more forgiveness? There is going to be more forgiveness.

I know that based off of the programs that I just mentioned. But the reality is I don't want people to be skipped for what they could be owed. Michael. Hey, Dr. Sonja. When we looked at President Joe Biden's executive order on student loan forgiveness, wasn't that also used in the HEROES Act of 2003 passed by Congress? That was the argument, the legal argument that they were making. And it gave the president the authority to discharge debt in times of emergency. So, it was based upon the coronavirus emergency. So, can you just explain quickly, because a lot of people don't understand this, why he couldn't discharge all student loan debt?

Because it's targeted. Because the Supreme Court said no? They said he didn't have the power. That was the wrong thing to use. It was the wrong thing to use. You know, I'm not a lawyer, and even I knew that that was the wrong act to go under because that was a provision for pandemic times. Your student loan debt was before pandemic times. So when that went through, I'm like, who wrote this?

I'm going to be honest with you. I was disappointed because the student loan problem didn't happen or get exacerbated because of the pandemic. If anything, the pause was nice. No interest, no payments. That was great. But that wasn't a pandemic problem, so I knew that that was going to get ruled out. Again, the act that they should have went under,

which they were trying to as of recently, if there would have been another term, would have been the Higher Education Act of 1965. That would have been the act that would have given them more wiggle room to get these zones forgiven under. Kelly, do you think? OK, go ahead. No real question, just what what are true next steps? So my my biggest concern.

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava

for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded

a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really

does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to,

you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's that occasion. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. Are for the people who are in the pipeline who didn't get a yay or an A. So what exactly happens to them? And what happens to the people whose loans were forgiven?

Does it just roll back or do we not know because the administration hasn't done anything yet? Yeah, you know, that's one of the things I'm not reading or just in my studies that I'm seeing that would be a possibility in terms of them rolling back loans. Because again, guys, the loan forgiveness that has come through was through public service loan forgiveness, borrower's defense, teacher loan forgiveness programs that were cleaned up through the Biden administration. I think they did a hell of a job doing it. That's not going to be rolled back because that was in place before Trump, before Biden, before Obama and so forth. Again, a lot of this got instituted around Lyndon B. Johnson. So I don't think that's going to be rolled back.

But when we talk about what's coming up, great question. What we have to understand and be informed and educated this time, this is why these conversations matter. When we hear Trump talk about the DOE and dismantling, there's also something he wants to institute called the American Academy, where he wants to tax private endowments. And he wants to fund an education system and an academy, if you will, that will be on par with receiving an associate's or an accredited bachelor's degree that's free for all Americans. Americans that have never completed another institution can be grandfathered into that institution and use their old credit to finish up trying to make the U.S. more competitive and free. So it sounds really, really good. Right. But there's so many flaws into it that we don't have just enough time to get into tonight. But it's very, very important that people are aware as to what's on the table, as to what changes could occur. And again, if they were to occur, you now need to be paying close attention at who you are putting in office, who you are

voting for or not voting for when it comes to state elections. Where is your tax dollars at the state level going to go? Because that's what this is boiling down to. And so when we talk about people being prepared, well, they've got to be prepared for repayment. This is going to be the first year in about four years that they're going to actually be able to garnish uh tax wages so if you were expecting a refund check but your student loans are in default that's not coming and then right after that they start garnishing your wages your credit score has probably fallen and as of october 1st if you were behind on your student loan payments because that's when it started to report so there's so many things that people have to be aware of that this is not yesterday's student loans.

We are back into the times in which, quite frankly, it's a mirror of when Trump was in office before. All right, then. Sonia, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much for joining us. Thank you. Have a great day. Folks, seven years ago, after Donald Trump gay Trump held his news conference

at what happened in Charlottesville, I did a commentary on the Tom Jonah Morning Show that we also simulcast on TV One. Four years ago, we ran that on this show prior to about 81 days out from the election. And so, you know what? I think that I thought it was time to show that again so folk can understand what the stakes are.

And it sort of alludes to what I was saying earlier, why we can't be in a position where we are giving up when we do have something to fight for. Roll that. Let's get right to the issue at hand. Y'all have already been talking about it. We've been discussing it right here on TV One. After yesterday's despicable news conference by President Donald Trump, I was in my car trying to decide what is it that I wanted to listen to, to put into proper context my feelings about what we heard. And I thought back to the first Black woman elected from the

South since Reconstruction, Congresswoman Barbara Jordan of Houston. Here's what she had to say in 1973 at the Watergate hearings. Earlier today, we heard the beginning of the preamble to the Constitution of the United States. We the people. It's a very eloquent beginning. But when that document was completed on the 17th of September in 1787, I was not included in that We the People. I felt somehow for many years that George Washington and Alexander Hamilton

just left me out by mistake. But through the process of amendment, interpretation, and court decision, I have finally been included in we the people. Today, I am an inquisitor. And hyperbole would not be fictional and would not overstate the solemnness that I feel right now. My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete. And I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution. Sybil, just like Congresswoman Barbara Jordan,

I will not be an idle spectator to avoid white supremacists sitting in the White House. I will not be an idle spectator to see Donald Trump walk in the footsteps of Republican Herbert Hoover, who led the Lilly White movement when he was president from 1929 to 1933. I will not sit idly by to see Donald Trump act like Democrat Woodrow Wilson, one of the most violent racists we've ever had serve in the office of the president. The fact of the matter is yesterday's news conference was shameful. It was despicable. It was him giving the middle finger to black people, to Jews,

to Hispanics, to Asians, to women, to white people of conscience. This is a president who has no shame. He is an immoral leader. Now, I know some people out there will say, well, he was elected, but yes, but guess what? Wilson was elected. So was Hoover was elected and other races who have served in that particular White House. What this man has done by lining himself with neo-Nazis and with white supremacists is shameful and should not go unchecked. But it's not just a question of going unchecked. We must do more than simply tweet and comment on Facebook. This is a challenge. This is a declaration of war. I also talked about, again, what I was listening to, and I had to play this, Tom, by Reverend Charles Jenkins.

Many of you might have heard this. Listen, when the enemy is swinging at you, you can't go down or fall down. You have to swing back. When the enemy's attacking you, you can't give up you can't throw in the tower but you got to get yourself together and you got to come hard

am I talking to any real people in the building? so when the enemy comes at you, you gotta know that the weapons of our warfare and our cover will bind you to the pulling down of strongholds. You need some weapons and you can't take it laying down, but you got to fight back. So when the enemy comes at you, you to say, you know what, man? I'm not going to break down. I'm not going to fall down. I'm not going to go down. I'm going to get my whole thing going to sway.

And I'm going to say, this means more. Tom, for 398 years, black folks have been fighting this country to ensure that it lives up to its ideals. For 398 years, we've made it perfectly clear we're not going to sit idly by and allow ourselves to be embarrassed and run over and shamed by white supremacists. This is the 190th anniversary of the first black newspaper, Freedom's Journal, which was founded in March 1827. In their lead editorial, they wrote, we wish to plead our own cause. Too long have others spoken for us. This is a moment where we don't need anybody else to speak for us. We can speak with clarity and with

precision as to exactly what is required of us. And what this requires, it requires alphas and kappas and omegas and sigmas, iotas, AKAs, deltas, zetas, sigma gamma rho, the links. It requires the Prince Hall Masons. It requires me, find links. It requires the Prince Hall Masons. It requires MeFi Me. It requires people of conscience to stand up, whether you are bougie, whether you are grassroots, whether you are... No matter where you are, it requires black people and other people of conscience to say,

we are going to oppose any effort to go back to the days of Jim Crow, to go back to the days after Reconstruction when you had the Redeemer movement by Democrats, with the Lilly White movement by white folks as well in this country on the Republican side. We have seen this before, and every time it has happened, we fought back. And what that means is it's time for folks to stand up and mobilize and organize. It means that when it comes to the ballot box, I don't care who you are, I don't want to hear

anybody say my vote does not matter, because when you see a white supremacist at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, all you need, that's the only proof you need to show your vote does indeed matter. What that means is we need people in Virginia, in Tennessee, in Mississippi, in Alabama, in Texas, in Georgia, in Florida, in Illinois, in California, in Wisconsin, in Michigan, in Pennsylvania, to say enough is enough. What it means for us to go to city council meetings, county commissioner meetings, state meetings, go to the governor's mansion and say we are going to rain holy hell down on any politician who stands with Donald Trump.

If you think we are playing, you are wrong. The previous generation, the baby boomers, they stood up. Our grandmothers and grandfathers stood up. Our mothers and fathers stood up. It is time for Gen X and Gen Y and millennial generation to stand up and say, we are going to take this fight on and go after anybody who stands in our path. I will not stand idly by and listen to Donald Trump anymore. I will not listen to a man who is an immoral leader.

I will not listen to anybody, whether they are black Republican who agrees with him, who voted for him, who continues to apologize for him. And you will be name checked. You will be embarrassed and you will not be invited to anything that involves black people. It is time for us to call people out. It is time for us to realize that we cannot wait. In 2018, we're going IT IS TIME FOR US TO CALL PEOPLE OUT. IT IS TIME FOR US TO REALIZE THAT WE CANNOT WAIT. IN 2018, WE'RE GOING TO COMMEMORATE THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF DR. KING BEING ASSASSINATED. WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THE 50th

ANNIVERSARY OF THE CURRENT COMMISSION'S REPORT ON THE RACE RISE IN 1967. DO UNDERSTAND THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE WHOSE SIDE THEY ARE ON. ARE YOU ON THE SIDE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS?

ARE YOU ON THE SIDE OF BIGOTRY? ARE YOU ON THE SIDE OF JUST PEOPLE? OR ARE YOU ON THE SIDE OF where people are going to have to decide whose side they are on. Are you on the side of righteousness? Are you on the side of bigotry? Are you on the side of just people? Or are you on the side of white supremacists? There is not going to be any, any effort to say, I can stand on either one. And I don't care who you are, if you're a Republican or Democrat, you have been served notice.

If you stand with this man, if you support white nationalist policies, we are going to take you out at the ballot box and put people of conscience in. Heather Heyer is going to be buried today. She is a 21st century version of Viola Uzo, a white woman from Michigan who died trying to help black folks to vote. This is not a black thing or Hispanic thing or Asian thing. It's a conscious thing. This is a battle for the soul of America. And like the Tuskegee Airmen said, we will

fight to the last hour, to the last minute, to the last second. We will fight, fight, fight. Number 45, game on. And that's for the folks who think I've changed over the last seven years. Michael, Matt, Kelly, I appreciate you all being on today's show.

Thank you so very much. Folk, we head to the weekend. Certainly get your rest, take your time, do whatever you need to do. What do they say? Folks say self-preservation, self-care, whatever that is, do all of that. But trust me, as long as there's breath in our bodies, we better be fighting for what's right. Folks, don't forget, support the work that we do. Join the Bring the Funk fan club.

Your dollars are critically important, especially at this time. Your dollars absolutely matter. Because, again, we don't have billionaires and millionaires cutting us checks. The right wing, man, they got all kind of support. And so your support is critically important. Send your check and money order, PO Box 57196, Washington, D.C., 20037-0196. Cash app, we told you how they've been tripping.

So they shut down a lot of business accounts. And so the way to support us is PayPal.me forward slash RMartinUnfiltered. It'll say New Vision Media in case you're concerned. Venmo is RMUnfiltered. Zelle, Roland at RolandSMartin.com. Roland at RolandMartinUnfiltered.com. And, of course, you can also download the Blackstunt Network app, Apple phone, Android phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox One, Samsung Smart TV. And be sure to get a copy of my book, White Fear, How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds, available bookstores nationwide.

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Folks, y'all have a great one. Howl! Here's the deal. We got to set ourselves up. See, retirement is the long game. We got to make moves and make them early. Set up goals. Don't worry about a setback. Just save up and stack up to reach them. Let's put ourselves in the right position. Pre-game to greater things. Start building your retirement plan at thisispretirement.org. Brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops.

They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports.

This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app,

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