#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Trump, Dem Leaders Met as Shutdown Looms, Biden-Era Grant Program Ends, Montell Jordan Health Battle

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

9.29.2025 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Trump, Dem Leaders Met as Shutdown Looms, Biden-Era Grant Program Ends, Montell Jordan Health BattleTop congressional leaders met with the twice-impeached, criminally convicted felon-in-chief, Donald "The Con" Trump, in a last-ditch effort to prevent a government shutdown.The U.S. Department of Education is shutting down a Biden-era grant program designed to increase racial and socioeconomic diversity in K-12 classrooms.We'll speak with an expert about how these cuts will impact your child's education. A White Georgia pastor is calling out the hijacking of Christianity. He'll be here to explain why he called out those who say they are Christians while exhibiting hate towards their fellow man. It's Prostate Cancer Awareness Month, and in our Fit, Live, Win segment, Grammy-winning R&B star Montell Jordan is sharing his prostate cancer diagnosis publicly in hopes of saving lives. And Lieutenant Colonel George Hardy, the last of the Tuskegee Airmen's World War II combat pilots, has died. #BlackStarNetwork partner: Fanbasehttps://www.startengine.com/offering/fanbaseThis Reg A+ offering is made available through StartEngine Primary, LLC, member FINRA/SIPC.  This investment is speculative, illiquid, and involves a high degree of risk, including the possible loss of your entire investment. You should read the Offering Circular (https://bit.ly/3VDPKjD) and Risks (https://bit.ly/3ZQzHl0) related to this offering before investing.Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV.The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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My Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home?

Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. The NFL is rolling. That's right, and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. It's in the name, NFL Daily, so you'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, in an all-star cast of co-hosts for previews and recaps of every single game. NFL Daily will keep you up to date with everything you need to know so you can sound smarter than all your friends. Listen to NFL Daily.

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prizes, and official rules, visit Toyotasgamegivaways.com. Hey, folks. Today is Monday, September 29th, 2025 coming up on Roland Martin Unfilter, streaming live on the Black Star Network. I am here in Columbia, South Carolina, where I just finished playing in the Celebrity Golf Tournament of Pro Basketball Hall of Famer Alex English. We'll hear from Alex as he addressed all of the golfers before we teed off today about his charity and the benefits of today's golf tournament. Also on today's show, Don Trump. will be sitting down and meet with Democratic congressional leaders as we are facing an impending government shutdown.

Also, the U.S. Department of Education, they are shutting down a Biden-era grant program meant to increase the diversity, the racial diversity, in classrooms K through 12. We'll talk to an expert who says, this isn't a horrible idea and the continuation of Donald Trump's attacks on diversity, equity, inclusion in America.

A white Georgia pastures, calling out white Christian nationalism will play for you what he had to say also a pastor in Dallas speaks about Charlie Kirk in white Christian nationalism will heal from my fraternity brother pastor Brian Carter out of Dallas, Texas. Also, it is prostate cancer wear this month and Grammy winning R&B singer Montel Jordan shares his story as his prostate cancer has returned and after he and his prostate removed. Also, one of the Las Tuskegee Airmen who flew World War II combat missions

has passed away. We'll remember him as well. Folks, it's time to bring the funk on Roland Unfiltered. On the Black Star Network, let's go. He's got... Whatever the piss, he's on it, whatever it is, he's got the scoop, the fat, the fine.

And when it breaks, he's right on time, and it's rolling, best belief, he's no. Putting it down from sports to news to politics With entertainment just for gigs He's rolling Yeah It's Uncle ro royo Yeah

It's rolling martin Yeah Rolling with rolling now He's funky's fresh He's real the best you know he's rolling Martin Our clock is ticking on a potential government shutdown. It will start 12.01 a.m. on Wednesday, October 1st.

Now, Donald Trump is planning to sit down with Democrats. Remember last week, he trashed Democrat Senate leader Chuck Schumer as well as House leader Hakeemeyer, saying, was a waste of time, but now he is going to do so. A GOP bill to extend current funding levels for seven weeks past the House earlier this month, but failed in the Senate where Republicans require Democratic votes to get it passed. Democrats are insisting on extending health care subsidies. Republicans oppose those. They've been lying saying that Democrats want to give health care to undocumented workers.

Hakeem Jefferson said that is a lie. over and over again. But before the meeting, Jeffrey stated that their commitment is to fight rising health care costs. We are ready, we are willing, we are able to find a bipartisan path forward and reaching a spending agreement that actually keeps the government open, but meets the needs of the American people,

in terms of their health, their safety, and their economic well-being. related to lowering the high cost of living as opposed to allowing tens of millions of Americans to experience dramatically increased health care costs. What we will not do is support a partisan Republican spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people. Over the last several months, Republicans have created a health care crisis

in the United States of America. largest cut to Medicaid in American history, triggering the possibility of a $536 billion cut to Medicare if Congress does not act because of what happened with the one big, ugly bill. Republicans have refused to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, and as a result of that, millions of working-class Americans

are going to experience sky sky rocketing premiums, co-pays, and deductibles at a time when America is already too expensive. Hospitals are closing. Nursing homes are closing. Community-based health centers are closing because of what Republicans have done in their one big ugly bill. The Centers for Disease Control are under attack in the appropriation bill that Republicans have put forth in this month. The National Institute of Health under attack because of what Republicans have done in their appropriations bill this month, and they're limiting the ability of children and families to get vaccines. This is a five-alarm fire in terms of the Republican-caused health care crisis.

And that's why Democrats are determined to turn things around. Let's go to our panel. Scott Bolden, attorney in Washington, D.C., Renita Shannon, she's a former Georgia State Representative. Glad to have both of you here. Renita, I want to start with you. You understand being a former lawmaker what these budget negotiations are all about. You see Republicans continue to lie. all I keep seeing Republicans saying Democrats want to give health care to undocumented workers. Jefferson said, well, that's against the law, so why do y'all keep lying? Absolutely.

That is not what Democrats are reaching for. It's not even something that's possible in the system because of the amount of documentation that you have to put forward in order to even be a part of these programs. But look, at the end of the day, the Republicans have the majority in both the House and the Senate. So if they have a budget that they want to pass, then they should be able to do it with their own numbers. I really hope that Democrats will continue to stand firm, because the reality is right now, our government is doing more harm by being open than it would, even if it were shut down. So the Democrats definitely should not agree to any sort of bill that is going to help advance

the current Trump agenda because it's brought nothing but chaos to the country. If they want a certain bill, let them get it. The fact that they're having to work with Democrats and pressuring Democrats to support the bill tells me that there's division on their side. It's God simple. Democrats, you're going to have to negotiate. They just, it's not going to be just sort of take and leave it. And you even have Republicans said, hell, why should Democrats negotiate when Russ Vaught

Trump's head of office and management and budget could just blow off it, blow off the deal anyway? And that's exactly what's going to happen. Parties are so far apart. They're so far apart that somebody's got a blink. The compromise isn't there. it's the blink, if you will. And so Trump can afford to blink because he's hurting his own constituents,

no matter what, with these Medicaid cuts and these rural hospitals, the very people that voted for it. So he's more likely than not. The Democrats aren't going to blink because they've got Medicaid and health care benefits on their side. Even MAGA supporters, rural voters support that.

And so it would be interesting meeting. I think the fact that Trump, came off this position, and he wasn't going to meet with Republicans before the shutdown, is telling that he feels there's a need for meeting. That's simple negotiations. The reality is, though, Donald Trump has shut this government down before. Has he learned anything from Trump won? We'll see. I think the Republicans take the hit. I think Trump takes the hit. You couple this with the economics of his tariffs and the rising of prices in our food stores, and that it's only going to continue to rise, and the lowering of employment in this country, you've got

a formula for economic disaster caused directly by this president. Yeah, and Renita, I mean, listen, I, you know, I had Ashley Etienne last week saying, hey, the Democrats aren't not going to have a subject for this. My whole deal is shut it down, make them own it. And again, they control everything. And if they are not going to negotiate, don't buckle, don't bend, don't fold. Absolutely. And at the end of the day, I can tell you from personal experience, Republicans don't ever

negotiate unless it is to your, unless they are sacrificing the Democrats. That's what their negotiations look like. So Democrats go to the table and they say, hey, we're going to find a bipartisan compromise. And all that ends up happening is Republicans force Democrats to negotiate at the expense of their constituents. It's never the other way around. So like I said before, Republicans have majorities in both chambers. They don't need Democrats for anything. They technically have enough votes within their, the number of folks who are elected. Well, well, what, what, actually, actually, in the Senate, well, no, they need 60 votes in the Senate. They don't

need cloture in the Senate. They don't have 60 in the Senate. They don't need it for budget bills. Budget bills have time already allocated. The only time you need cloture in the Senate is when a bill has no set time for debate. Budget bills don't—they already have set time for debate. So they don't even need cloture in the Senate. This is more of what always happens at every level of government, whether you're talking about the federal government or the state government, which is that Democrats feel this overwhelming need to sit here and try to support Republicans. And I want to say support, but I will say to try to work with them because they don't want it to be said that the government is shut down. But like you said, before,

they should do just like what happened with Bill Clinton when the Republicans couldn't get their stuff together and the government shut down and everybody knew whose fault it was. Well, Scott, again, I just think that this is one of those things where Democrats have the message very hard and must stay strong and must send the message and making it clear to the public what their demands are. What are they demanding in exchange for their votes? Yeah, there's a delay coming on my end, but I think you're ready for me to talk. They're fighting for Medicaid, they're fighting for health care, they're fighting for economic rights for, not just Democrats, but Republicans as well as independence. They've got to make that clear.

And remember, this is the Trump government. He controls all three houses, whether you need cloverature or not in the Senate, the Republicans, because they own all three houses, are going to have to own. this, right? And this is going to be building. This is just part of the building block, right? Because in about six months, when prices skyrocket because of tariffs, and the government's closed down, and they're driving on employment because they're going to not only shut the government down, but then the other thing they're going to do is fire a whole bunch of other people. You're looking at an economic mess, and I didn't take microeconomics in more than macro, but that's more than enough to show you you're looking at an economic

disaster driven by not just Trump's resistance to doing a deal with the Democrats, but also because of his tariffs. And so I think the Dems have an upper hand. I wouldn't buckle. I may negotiate. I might give on a few minor things that don't touch me or hurt me at all, but I'd come out with my talking points, and I would cover the airwaves, black newspapers, white newspapers. Our message would be no more clear on the first day that the government.

government shuts down. So now you got your message, you got your messengers, you got a failing economy, and you're making Trump and the Republicans own it based on their own economic espionage with tariffs coupled with wanting to take health care and Medicare and Medicaid from Americans. That's a great political equation to win at. I bet on that if I would, them, they just got to hold strong. They got to not bend. They can blink slightly. but don't bend and don't blink yourself out of a political gimmy, if you will, a year before, or less than a year before, the 26 midterms. This is setting up perfect for them.

Absolutely hard, folks. Got to go to the break. We come back. Donald Trump deploys federal agents of the streets of Chicago. We'll show you some of that video and also share with you in response to by Mayor Brandon Johnson and other. As you're watching Rolla Martin unfiltered right here on the Black Star Network. In my book, The Power to Persist, I share eight simple yet powerful habits,

a blueprint for transforming obstacles into opportunities and pressure into purpose, just as they fueled my rise from the south side of Chicago to a national stage. And on the Power to Persist podcast, I bring that blue point. to life. They said the quiet part out loud. Black votes are a threat. So they erased them. After the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Republican legislatures moved fast.

New voter ID laws, polling place shutdowns, purges of black voters from the rolls. Trump's Justice Department didn't stop it, they joined in. In 2018, his DOJ backed Ohio's voter purge system, a scheme that disproportionately erased black voters, their goal, erase black votes, and political power. Yeah, that happened. These are the kinds of stories that we cover every day on Roland Martin unfiltered. Subscribe on YouTube and download the Black Star Network app. Support fact-based independent journalism that centers African Americans and the issues that matter to our community. Hey, I'm Tasha Cobbs, and you are watching.

Roland Martin unfiltered. But I need a little filter. I need a something. Blow me out. Make me a little 35. The Kine would tack on diversity, equity, inclusion by Donald Trump and his MAGAMNIONs continues this time, the Department of Education, cutting a Biden-era grant that focus on.

on expanding racial, first of all, to expand racial representation in classes K through 12. Folks, school districts from Anchorage, Alaska, from Bat Rouge, Louisiana, Miami, Day, along with other places, they were expected to finish out their grants with millions of dollars still left to support urban districts. However, the Department of Education is now withdrawn the funding.

Kayla, Patrick Calloway, a senior fellow of the Century Foundation, is here to join us right now. Kayla, glad to have you here. First and foremost, Kayla, how much money we're talking about? So we were talking about at least $22 million that the grantees were still owed from the Federal Department of Education. They had planned and expected around that money, and now that money is no longer available to them. And again, what was the money being used for? So this was a locally driven strategy. So it was for fostering school diversity.

Whether that be socioeconomic diversity or racial diversity, we know those two things are often linked. So districts were using innovative strategies to engage families and community members. We had one grantee engaged over 20,000 parents in their district to come up with a plan for school diversity. Lots of the grants that were canceled that you just mentioned, including New York and Eleanor. We're bringing in advanced coursework, art classes, things that they wouldn't otherwise have the funding to support in order to entice students and parents to come to schools that they wouldn't otherwise go to. And they were seeing success over the last two years in bringing more diversity into their schools. And clearly, for Trump folks, they'll give a damn by diversity. They don't care. It would seem so, right? So they are canceling these grants.

asking educators they aren't asking parents what they want the these districts raise their hand they said we want this money to do this work and the federal Department of Education didn't ask them what they were doing or how they were spending the money before they canceled these grants so what's next for these school districts what do they do I think some districts are scrambling as we speak to figure that out so some districts are saying they're going to find the money elsewhere we know that school districts districts are already strapped. They don't have enough money as it is. We weren't doing

what we should be doing in terms of funding or fully funding schools across the country. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes. Then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight. People using axes in really terrible ways. Disappearances. Legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know True Crime playlist on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

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Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome.

Learn how to have the conversation at Agreetoagree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. So some districts are saying they're going to look for money elsewhere. Unfortunately, that won't be the case for all of these grantees. Some of these programs will no longer exist. And look, we're seeing this all across the board, and as I've said from the outset, what they want to do is they desperately want to defund black America. They are attacking anything that deals with diversity. They do not care. What these folks want to see is a white America.

When they say make America great again, they mean make America largely white again. We're also saying that, you know, already we're not doing great in terms of school. school diversity, we are seeing schools be as segregated as they were in the 60s. And without the federal government intervening, that could just get worse. We've seen it get worse over the last decade

or so. We've seen great strides in the 90s. Graduation rates were higher, academic achievement was higher, and school diversity was at its highest rate. And so now you're pulling the rug from under these districts and making them scramble to figure out how to

continue programs that we know make a different for students and particularly black students in this country. Questions from the panel? Renew, you first? Yeah, I know from personal experience, I grew up in St. Petersburg, Florida, and then in the eighth grade, my dad had our family moved to Lakeland, Florida. And when we got there, a lot of the schools were, as you say, just as segregated as in the 60s.

And so they got federal grants to—they got busted by the federal government, the Lakeland public school system. And a part of the fix to make them to make them desegregate their schools was to actually set up busing programs that would take kids like myself who lived in predominantly black neighborhoods and bus them 30 minutes away to schools that were not in their neighborhoods. Do you know if any of the money that is included in the money that's being rescinded now or not going to be given will have anything to do with busing students? I mean, because this could really just be a major upheaval for students when you're talking about having, you know, if they're not able to get transportation to the school that they have already been attending. It's the middle of the school year. It is the middle of the school year. So that's critically important.

We're in September. These districts have already planned for the next school year, and they were making plans to spend this money. And so we see a few of these districts have said that they have six to ten staffers that they will no longer be able to. support because this money is no longer available to them. I don't know of any districts using the money for busing, but I do know that districts have been reevaluating transportation plans. We have one grantee that hadn't had an evaluation of district lines or transportation in 30 years. And in that particular state, the state was giving them less money because their bus routes were inefficient. So what they were doing was talking to parents and families to figure

out how to create some efficiency with their bus routes and at the same time create more school diversity. And so they will no longer be able to do that work because they no longer have access to these dollars. Scott? Yeah, thank you for joining us this evening. Because my question is, whenever budgets get tight, whenever we lose funding with my clients, I always talk to them about alternatives, alternative funding, right? Are there state grants or state monies that can replace these monies for these school districts? Are there private donations, private foundations, private trust, if you will, that the administration or those school districts could tap to fill in the blank, if you will, to fill in for this loss. These diversity programs

found, like not only they're preparing their students to deal with diversity right now, but also to go out into the world and to the country, right, and how they shape their socioeconomic view towards the country and the world, literally, just seems like such an invaluable program. Any alternative fundings that these districts can tap into or try to until we can either get these grants back, somebody's files a lawsuit, or just to permanently replace them because of the value ROI. I think you're exactly right. I think school diversity is critically important, and public education is important

because it builds a foundation for services to earn alongside each other and work in diverse communities eventually, and it's the foundation of our democracy. So it's critically important that we create diverse school environments. I am not aware of any private dollars that will, to this day, our funding. school diversity efforts. I think it is a moment for states to step up and say, hey, this is important. I've heard some districts say that their district leadership is going to continue this work, and that's excellent. But every district isn't able to do that work, especially in our districts that are already underfunded at the state level. And so it's time to really call

on our leaders to invest in strategies that we know our research backed and we know that work. Thank you. All right, Finn. Well, again, I just keep telling people, this is what we say elections have consequences. And for the folks who chose not to vote, Vice President Kamala Harris, and whoever stayed at home or supported Donald Trump, well, here you go. Yep. And this is what happens.

Caleb, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. All right, folks, going to a break. We come back. We'll talk white Christian nationalism. Also, federal cops on the streets of Chicago. That more right here on Roland Martin Fulton on the Black Star Network.

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about our past, present, and future. African genius is saying that my uncle was a genius, my brother was a genius, my neighbor was a genius. I think we ought to drill that in ourselves and move ahead rather than believing that I got it. That's next on the Black Table, here on the Black Star Network. This week on the other side of change.

Early Kirk, gun violence in America, and how the nation has responded in the week since. In many ways, it's become very, very toxic, a witch hunt, really attacking anyone who's not mourning this man. What we're seeing right now is the weaponization of selective compassion and people who so often don't say anything about the crisis of gun violence. We're going to dig into all of it, what this means for the state of gun violence and the state of free speech. You're watching the other side of change only on the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Isaac Hayes III, founder and CEO Fanbase, and I'm here with a very important message. We are at a turning point in the black community where we must have equity in the apps we use that scale to billions of dollars. But this time, we own the infrastructure, we own the culture, and we shape the future.

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Thank you. Melanie Campbell, National Coalition on Black Civic, participation in Black Women's Roundtable and we are watching rolling modern unfiltered all day every day, 24-7 spread the word. Folks, Chicago Mayor

Brandon Johnson often has a lot of back and forth with reporters in Chicago regarding his work. He posted this the other day that caught my attention. So I love it when he claps back on haters. Why do you think you are struggling, you and the city council collectively struggling to make these committee assignments?

I spoke to aldermen today. He said one of the problems is your office is not speaking with enough aldermen. You limited this negotiation to the Latino and black caucuses, and these discussions should start sooner. Who told you that? Okay. Alderman Emmett said it should begin sooner. So someone said that I'm not speaking to all members of the different caucuses that are represented here. That's just dishonest.

Is it true of this reorganization specifically? It's just honest. It's not true. We speak with all of the different interested parties that recognize that our number one priority right now is to build the safest, most affordable big city in America. Look, let's just walk through the record here for a second. Pay time off. It was a promise. made it. He did it. Abolicing the sub-minimum wage. A promise. He made it. We did it. Right? Ensuring that we have green social housing. It was a promise. He did it.

ADUs. Promise. He made it. We did it. This agreement with Jackson Park and individuals who could be impacted by justification. We made a commitment. We did it. Right? Every single promise that I put forward to ensure that we build the safest, most affordable big city in America we're accomplishing it. We had an historic action today where over 200 years collectively of time in prison, jail, we were able to settle that case. Norther the administration of the history of Chicago has been able to accomplish that. The $1.25 billion bond investment to build more affordable homes and economic development. We have an airport that is breaking records every day. Hotel occupancy is up.

Tourism is up. Ridership on our trains are up. And violence is down. I mean, I hear you, but government is still functioning. Look, there's a lot of work for us to do, but you can't sleep on the fact that our investments, oh, I should have mentioned mental health and behavior health service as well, that the investments that we have put forth based upon promises that we have made, for communities that have been historically neglected for decades.

We are fulfilling those promises. And so in the process of this reorganization, as long as there is a commitment to allow for this agenda to be moved forward, then I think that's the most important thing here. Now, folks, the latest Donald Trump has sent federal law enforcement to the streets of Chicago just yesterday. You saw massive numbers of cops moving on mission. Avenue, holding their guns, other parts of Chicago.

This is about, folks, this really is about, this is all about being a television show. This video here got lots of attention. They were trying to chase down this delivery driver on his bicycle. Well, guess what? They were a little slow of foot. So he was able to get away, talking about looking like idiots. And so that's all this is. Here's another example of how they have been swarming folks.

In fact, one reporter posted how they were attacking reporters firing pepper spray and rubber bullets at them. And so we've seen these officers acting really in an extremely aggressive, aggressive manner. Today, Mayor Brandon Johnson addressed Donald Trump sending these cops in the streets of Chicago, and here we go. Thank you, Governor, and good afternoon, everyone. I'm grateful to all of the elected leaders here, the community, business, and faith leaders that are joining us today. Many Chicagoans were shocked and appalled to see videos of heavily armed, masked federal agents in our streets yesterday. The reality is that this stunt has nothing to do with public safety. This is about politics, money, and power.

The president is using his militarized force the exact way he intended to advance his political goals. He wants to militarize our cities, whether that's through ICE or through the National Guard or United States Army or armed forces. He wants to provoke conflict so that he can use this as a pretext to send even more federal agents into our city. What we saw yesterday was an absolute disgrace. Families, visitors, everyday Chicagoans, were out and joined our city, and they were met with dozens of heavily armed federal agents aiming to strike fear in our communities. They targeted street vendors and construction workers, just trying to make an honest living. They made a little girl act as a translator as they took her first. family into custody. These are heartbreaking scenes that have nothing to do with making our city

safer. My question to these masked, heavily armed individuals is simple. What could you possibly need an automatic weapon for? The only plausible explanation is that their aim is not to carry out their duties, but instead strike fear in our communities. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then if we got good news for you, stuff you should know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight. People using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my.

We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation.

Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't, access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agreetoagree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. If you are following the law, if you are in accordance with the Constitution, if you have a

criminal warrant, then there is no reason to cover your face. This comes on the hills of the revelation that was reported on MSNBC that Tom Homan, the so-called Borders are, accepted a $50,000 bribe from undercover FBI agents in exchange for lucrative detention center contracts. So let's call it what it is. Tom Holman sold out the American people for $50,000 in cash. That's why I'm calling on the federal government to appoint an independent investigator to review every single contract in the city of Chicago, the county and the state, related to any ICE detention centers.

The people have a right to know if these contracts, are legitimate or if they were granted as a result of outright bribery and corruption. As of last week, 72 percent of those held in ICE detention have no criminal record. And of those with a criminal record, many are for traffic violations and misdemeanors. The Trump administration's detention campaign is not for public safety, it is for profit. More than 90 percent of the immigration detention centers are run by private and for-profit corporations. The Trump administration has already engaged in no-bid contracts with private prison contractors across the United States.

Executives at private prison firms are calling this a gold rush, as their stocks have soared by as much as 80%. In May, the CEO of a private prison corporation told investors, this is a quote, truly, one of the most exciting periods in the history of the company. One company estimated that they could make as much as $400 million of taxpayer money per year from private detention. Another said that it could make as much as a billion dollars. In additional revenue, the two largest private prison corporations gave President Donald Trump at least $2.8 million for his reelection campaign. And this is the agency that Trump and Republicans just handed $170 billion, a blank check with little to no oversight. The money that Republicans gave to ICE is more, there's more

funding given to ICE in this last budget that has been allocated for police departments at state and local governments in all 50 states, including the District of Columbia, combined. Let me say that again. Trump gave his personal militarized force more money than all other local and state police funding combined. And the guy they put in charge of that funding was bought for $50,000 in cash. They are lining their own pockets and the pockets of the executives of small number corporations to a small number of corporations. I've spoken with parents in Pilsen, Little Village, spoken to business owners on Devon Street, elders, and uptown who are too scared to take their children to school. We're losing business, and they're too

afraid to even attend church because of their legal status. They're afraid of the reckless actions that they have seen. This is not being tough or patriotic to throw a crying mother to the floor who just wanted to be reunited with her children, it's abominable. It's not law and order to body slam a 79-year-old business owner, an American citizen, for trying to produce the papers of his employees. And there's nothing brave about firing pepper bullets with chemical agents at a Chicago CBS reporter for simply showing up to do her job. Greg Bovino, who spends countless taxpayer dollars on TikTok videos of himself, was in charge of the operation in Los Angeles where a 15-year-old kid, an American citizen with disabilities, was handcuffed and held at gunpoint by ICE.

His family is now suing. By the time this is over, there will be hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer dollars, wasted in settlements related to the excessive use of force and the unconstitutional actions of this administration. So again, let's make this very clear. This is not about public safety. This is not even about immigration. This is the continuation of the Trump administration's war on the poor. They have cut food assistance. They have cut Medicaid. They have cut violence prevention funding.

They have made life harder and more dangerous for poor and working people across this country. They have declared war on poor on behalf of the ultra-rich. And so they can simply funnel our tax dollars to a small handful of billionaires. So we have to make sure that we continue to show our support for the people of this city and for this country. In closing, at a time when we are cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from health care, public health housing, and defunding public education, manufacturing austerity. I'll say that plainly, the Trump administration is worsening poverty at the same time as declaring war on the poor. This is an untrustworthy, corrupt, and out-of-control administration that is doing everything in their power to foment chaos in our cities. Whether it's in Portland, Los Angeles, or Chicago, we cannot accept the militarization of our cities.

We will continue to stand united as a city, as a county, as a state, and local villages to reject any attempts to militarize our cities. I want to be very clear, what we saw this Sunday is not unique. As the governor has indicated, this is happening in villages like Broadview and other places across this country. And so we have to make sure that this is not the last time we express our unified voice to ensure that we protect the interests of all people. And with that, I will turn it over to our Attorney General. Again, the mayor is speaking to these federal ICE agents being on the streets there in Chicago. Donald Trump has said he's sending National Guard to Memphis. They are also National Guard to Oregon.

And what this is all about is simple, again, this authoritarian regime. That's what it boils down to. Scott, it's nothing more than that. What they want is the TV show. He wants to convince people that America is under siege. And what he's doing is concocting BS reasons. Now, the only place that he can declare an emergency and immediately take action is in Washington, D.C. but he's just coming up and making up other reasons in other parts of the country.

Yeah, and he's doing it, and he's doing it through ice. He's doing it through ice, not necessarily the National Guard, because he knows he can't win by sending the National Guard in there. So even your video showed, your videos showed ICE Border Patrol who are flooding these cities. And you know, Roland, I had an epiphany yesterday doing the football. They were running ICE ads to recruit people, and they were saying, come join our force to put bad people, violent people, violent criminals, rapist, murders, and the worst of the worst out of this country. And what I realize is they've trained ICE to do just that with violent criminals, right? But the reality is that's not who they're putting out of their country.

That group may be here or not here, but they're putting everybody out and they're aggressively putting that out because that's how they're training them. That's why you get the mask because they argue that these are drug gangs and violent gangs and they don't need to know our face and we'll be subject to assassination attempts. They've created this violent narrative through words, but then through actions and video in these cities so that America, who's not in these big cities, looks and says, boy, we need that police force there. Look at all the violent criminals that they're arresting.

They're not arresting violent criminals. They're arresting people who came here illegally and are waiting on their hearings. And look at the amount of energy and vigor. behind them. It's all made up. It's all made up, if you will. And so you have the video, you have the verbal narrative, and you have the president on TV every day talking about the progress we're making. And these are bad dudes and these are bad people. But it's all a lie. At least the majority of it isn't a lie. If they're violent, get them out of the country. Most Dems and Republicans will agree with that. These are hardworking people in the fields of California.

Texas. These are people making widgets and computer parts because these big companies who they're rating are recruiting them in Central and South America. We talked about that. I've seen ads and billboards in Central and South America, in Mexico, to recruit people to come to the U.S. by hook or crook to work in these factories and work in these organizations and these firms. And so, you know, it's amazing how America just doesn't get it. Like, when we talk about this every day, I'd say the press covers the dichotomy of this every day and the hypocrisy of it. And yet and still, his numbers go down on the economy.

His numbers are down on immigration because nobody likes the video of the young girl being pushed to the ground or the 79-year-old business owner who's just trying to talk to them. No. No, that... Scott, you're wrong. No, no, you're wrong. Actually, no, no, you're wrong. His right wing loves it.

I mean, Renita, you look... No, no, follow me here. You look on social media. His right wing support... Scott, you said nobody likes to see the woman being pushed down. What I am saying is, his magafolk, they do. What you're seeing, the attack, when you're saying, the pushing down, the beating,

the shooting of rubber bullets. Renita, his people love this. They are posted on social media. This is exactly what we voted for. And this is what I'm saying. What he is doing is, he is feeding, frankly, law enforcement porn

to these people. And Renita, they are eating it up. And they're saying absolutely this is what we voted for. And so they love it. And so they don't care if, oh, he lied about only taking on violent criminals because here's the deal. He didn't just say

violent criminals. He said we're going to take all 11 million out. But every single one of these Latinos and every single one of these African immigrants who supports Donald Trump, guess what? He don't want none of y'all here.

And that's really true. He said he was going to take criminals out and what people have to understand is to the GOP MAGA folks, anybody who is not a U.S. citizen in this country, that automatically makes them a criminal, whether they have legal documentation to be here or not. And that is what he is executing. And my comments are about Mayor Brandon Johnson. I love Mayor Brandon Johnson. I've never met him personally, but he is somebody who folks really need to look and follow his work. Because he is somebody in a time where many

are saying, where are the leaders, why aren't Democrats doing anything? He is somebody who is not just giving big speeches, but he is taking action. He's always clear-eyed. He always keeps his constituents at the center of his policies. He came in with a clear vision to reduce police budgets and to reinvest that money into the communities in Chicago, and it's worked to reduce crime. I love the fact that he's already said that if ICE agents come in and they are violating people's civil liberties, he will have them arrested. That is what a mayor should be doing. He has done everything that he could. He kept the National Guard out of the city. I mean, this guy, in my opinion, the Democrats should not be talking about

Gavin Newsom for president, they should be looking at Mayor Brandon Johnson. And before anybody says, well, we can't have somebody go from mayor the president, they try to with Pete Buttigieg and they're still currently trying it with him, even though he polls at zero. Well, I just want people to understand, well,

understand what's going on here. That is what Donald Trump is doing is he wants the nightly TV show. That's why Ice Barbie Christy Noam keeps dressing up. Scott mentioned those commercials you have been seeing on television. That was a $200 million ad buy.

That was federal taxpayer money spent, and that was rewarding media firms and conservative right-wing media with those dollars. That's what they have been doing. All right, folks, going to go to a break. We come back. I was on social media, and his white pastor really just broke down

what we're seeing right now with this white Christian nationalism I'm going to show you what he had to say and talk to him next right here on Roland Martin unfiltered on the Black Star Network. In my book, The Power to Persist, I share eight simple yet powerful habits, a blueprint for transforming obstacles in the opportunities and pressure into purpose, just as they fueled my rise from the south side of Chicago to a national stage. And on the Power to Persist podcast, I bring that blueprint to life. They said the quiet part out loud. Black votes are a threat. So they erased them. After the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Republican legislatures moved fast. New voter ID laws. Polling place shutdowns. purges of black voters from the rolls. Trump's Justice Department didn't stop it, they joined in.

In 2018, his DOJ backed Ohio's voter purge system, a scheme that disproportionately erased black voters, their goal, erase black votes, and political power. Yeah, that happened. These are the kinds of stories that we cover every day on Roland Martin unfiltered. Subscribe on YouTube and download the Black Star Network app. Support fact-based independent journalism,

that centers African Americans and the issues that matter to our community. Michael McMillan, president and CEO of the Urban League of Metropolitan St. Louis, and you are watching Roland Martin Unfiltered. Folks, Pastor Cody Dease

in Mableton, Georgia, the church is Viking Lakes Church. spoke about what's happened what we're seeing right now with the hijacking of Christianity and it's happening all around. We saw this with the... Hi there, this is Josh Clark

from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes than have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time.

There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, heists the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh my. We think NFL

coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home. Hey. Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if

there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agreetoagree.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. Kirk Memorial Service, you know, all of these different Christian singers and others, and all have you been seeing is this whole notion of that we were in a Christian revival, and Christianity, it's under attack. You had the right wing who lied over the weekend when Penn State in Oregon had a football game and they claimed that 100,000 people in the stadium were wearing Charlie Kirk Freedom shirts when that wasn't the case. It was a whiteout game at Penn State has every single

year. But you're seeing this and you're seeing this constant idea that, well, he was a Christian and he was advancing Christian's moral, values, and principles, even though a lot of it was right-wing hate. And so I saw this on Instagram, and I said, man, I said, we need to share this with our audience because we've been sharing many of these messages that have been coming from preachers, mostly African-American preachers all across the country, but I wanted to share this. Let's just look at this. Jesus defeated deaths so you can live.

Dr. King was an awful human being. Civil rights was a huge mistake. Let's just sit those side by side because that came from the mouth of a situation. same individual. Now you start to see the exterior being a mirror to the interior. Let's go one more, two more. He said, quote, I believe in the Bible, and I believe that Christians rose or Christ rose from the dead on the third day.

He said, this is the foundation of my faith and it guides my actions, unquote. Hold it. He also said, let's hold it side by side, black women do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go still a white person's slot, unquote. Now, I want to pause here and say, for the critics who say, you're pulling stuff out of context. Two things. One, I'm happy. I just don't have time today. Happy to give you the full context. Two, the full context does not change the fact that this is racism okay so let's hold those about just one more here one more okay quote i want to be remembered for courage for my faith that would be the most important thing for me when i die unquote hold that one more quote quote quote i think it's

worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. Let's just put those right beside each other. Now, if this makes you uncomfortable, I would invite you to pause for a minute and think about how uncomfortable this makes our people of color feel. And what I I want to say to you is, if these quotes that Jesus defeated death so you can live by Charlie Kirk and Dr. King was an awful human being in civil rights with a huge mistake, if these feel incompatible, it's because they are. These quotes are not compatible with each other, and I also would like to say they're not compatible with the teachings in way of Jesus. And what you see

in this moment this week in American history is you see the twisting of the truth and this isn't new the colonizers who came to America said they were Christians the KKK said they were Christians there have been mass shooters

whose profile said they were Christians There were insurrectionists on January 6 who flew Christian paraphernalia. They claimed to be Christians. There were, check this out. Some of you know this, slave owners who claim to be Christian. And what I want to say is I can no longer as a pastor, as a human, and as someone who's given their life to the way of Jesus, I can no longer stand by as Christianity gets hijacked by a particular agenda that is not the way of Jesus. I cannot stand by as a Christian and watch Christ's name get hijacked to further justify hate, racism, bigotry, misogyny, and white supremacy.

I believe the path of Jesus is the path of generosity, nonviolence, caring for the poor, the vulnerable, the oppressed, and the marginalized. And part of what I hope comes out of this moment in American history is that maybe, and this is my prayer, maybe what we're seeing is that all of this is surfacing so that we can begin to see just how much the name of Christ has been twisted in turn. Pastor Cody Dease joins us right now from Georgia. Pastor, glad to have you here. And look, I was so happy to see this because what I have said consistently, and I was

talking to Reverend Jim Wallace about this. A lot of black preachers have been speaking on this. And what we are seeing with what Joe Walsh, a former MAGA congressman, longtime friend of Charlie Kirk, he said absolutely is white Christian nationalism. This is not about Jesus. This is not about what Jesus preached about. This is not about the teachings of Jesus. What this is, is, in essence, the moral majority 2.0 on steroids.

This is what Paul Wyrick and Derry Falwell and others wanted to do. And frankly, being a white preacher, I thought it was even more important to hear that from you because too many white preachers have been silent. Yeah, thanks, Roland. I think it is a crucial, crucial message that needs to be said right now. and a part of my story, Roland, just so you know, is I came out of that moral majority-type movement. My father was a Southern Baptist pastor. I got my undergrad from Jerry Falwell's University, Liberty University. So I am a product of someone who has been raised and conditioned to see the world in a particular way.

And then over the years, I begin to evolve, grow up, my own. consciousness began to expand. I began to encounter real human beings that were different than me. And in that process, I began to realize that a lot of what I was raised to believe and what I was raised to see Jesus as did not match what I was encountering in the world around me, and it didn't match what I was encountering when I read the scriptures itself, from the prophets in the Old Testament all the way through to this revolutionary subversive Jesus all the way through to the book of Revelation where John of Patmos is writing some of the most subversive literature in the context of the first century Roman empire that has ever been written. And when you read

those things as a person like me who has given their life to the way of Jesus, studied the scriptures. I graduated from Candler School of Theology, so I've been educated from people who saw this long before I did. But your eyes began to open and begin to expand and you begin to realize, oh, my God, especially me, I have a social intersection that is crucial to be able to speak to my own family members. sometimes you need to disturb the family text feed. Sometimes there needs to be some conflict. And everybody, you know, seems to be uncomfortable around conflict. But one of the things I've learned is conflict sometimes is the doorway. It is the path that can actually lead us to greater transformation.

You know, I watched Texas Congressman Troy Neils say in the congressional on hearing that if Charlie Kirk was living in biblical era he would have been the 13th disciple I saw the Cardinal Dolan in of New York say oh he was

like the Apostle Paul he was a saint and he just made people uncomfortable but you read what Charlie Kirk said and you read direct quotes and what's been amazing is to watch people say even some black folks say

oh, they said these things about him and I went back when I listened to what he actually said and it's been taken out of context and you didn't understand the nuance and so you was just the people, y'all are pushing this sort of stuff and I'm sitting there going, do you

act like we don't have ears and we don't have eyes and we did not hear exactly what we heard? Yeah, there's no question. I call that, here's a thing. Call it whatever you want. sanitized racism, call it rebranded racism, but as a white male, let me just speak to any

other white males that are listening or white people that are listening in general. We're not fooling anyone, and we're not fooling ourselves. And I know, because I was raised and conditioned to see the world a particular way, I know what my ears are hearing, and you can place all the context. you want around it. Someone said to me recently, Pastor, he did not say, quote, black women. You're right. He called specifically four black women, one of which was Michelle Obama. And these educated black women is who is talking about. And in the context, it doesn't change. And until we can come to a place where we acknowledge that rebranded, sanitized,

polite racism is still racism. And the great Franciscan priest, Richard Roar, says it like this. He says, you cannot heal what you do not acknowledge. And this is why it's so imperative when I see things like this administration and Trump and MAGA pushing to remove images of slavery from museums, we're regressing, we're moving backwards and he knows what he's doing. This administration knows what they're doing. And I'm learning more and more that what this is underneath, what it is, is white supremacy. And a part of the reason perhaps many of these leaders, these white male leaders, part of the reason many of them are

kicking and screaming and putting out the dog whistles and I'm getting them, God knows the people of color are getting them. Part of the reason I believe that's happening is because they are so terrified of one word, equality, equality. Yep. And what is equality to us feels like oppression to them? I'm going to send you, my book, my producers will get your address. I want to send you in my book, White Fear, How the Browning of America is making white folks lose their minds. And the reason I chose that title and people, that was some, that was some TV produced that was actually a network African-American

who's a broadcast a show host and who wanted to have me on the show but it was like oh my producers are uncomfortable with your title and I said well I actually write about those very producers in the book and I said and because I saw what was happening

and what's been driving me crazy is I saw this in 2009 it was speaking prophetically about it and I said what we're facing And I literally said, I remember John Avalon and I were at CNN, we were working there together. He's now in Congress, and I said, John, we are in the beginning of stages of white minority resistance. And he was like, what?

I said, John, I'm telling you, I said, we're becoming a nation of people of color. Then when you see the advancement of the great replacement theory, then when you see the attacks on undocumented workers, oh, they're replacing us, they're taking our jobs, we're losing our way of life. and you're seeing all of the, you hear the phrases, you hear the language. And what this is about is, it is literally about, oh, my God, America's changing. Now these same MAGA people, Pastor, I'm now seeing them complain, and I'm seeing their post on social media. I'm seeing them now complain about people of color in France and other European nations. One person posted, when I go to Paris, I don't want to see all of them. of these Muslims

and Africans on the street, I'm like, well, you do know they have immigration there, and you do know that the white population, they are seeing a decrease in fertility rates in European nations. And when Elon Musk is tweeting about fertility, and Charlie Kirk, just

two days before he was shot and killed, was on Laura Ingraham's show, complaining about white fertility as well. This is literally about white people in America being scared to death that they no longer are going to be the majority. Yeah. I want to see your book. It sounds fantastic. And I would also add part of the reason

and part of the way, I would say, that they're bolstering this grasp at white power and white supremacy is not new. Some of this has been going on for years. Honestly, the merging of empire and Christianity can go all the way back to, you know, somewhere around 312 with Emperor Constantine, and there's a lot of scholarship that argues that that's where Christian nationalism kind of has its early roots. But you can trace it from there, and what you see right now is a president who, might I add, does not care about Christianity. This president doesn't care about Christian. Trump cares about Trump, Trump cares about power, Trump cares about authority, and Trump cares about self-preservation.

And the idea that my own family, evangelicals, used to teach over and over and over again, be careful. It's a slippery slope, they would say, make sure that the message of Jesus, the narrow path, the way of Christ, doesn't get co-opted by the far left. And they would warn us about CNN. They would warn us about the liberals at the university. And all of them, Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time.

There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know True Crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.

Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey. Hey, we're so excited for tonight.

Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. All along, while they were demonizing this other side, all along, their plan was to collect as much power as they possibly can, because that is what Christian nationalism is, essentially. It is trying to make America a Christian nation by force. And what I would like to say is America is not a Christian nation.

You can go back to its origins. It's not a Christian nation. It is a nation with Christians, and it is a nation with Muslims and atheists and Buddhist, but it is not a Christian nation. And what you're seeing right now is this administration recognizing what works. Oh, we need evangelicals. So here's how we're going to do this. We're going to toe the party line. We're going to play with these images that we're given.

I mean, think about the image of Trump holding a Bible in front of the church. Is there a more iconic image of the merging of empire in religion than that image? Think about the AI image of him inside a pope outfit. Is there a more iconic image of a merging of empire and Christianity together? But what I would just say in closing is this, those two do not run parallel with each other. The way of Trump, the way of empire, and the way of Christ do not run together. One is about truth, integrity, justice, and liberation, and the other is about greed, corruption, revenge, and oppression. And it is critical that we make a distinction between the two.

I mean, yeah, you absolutely nail it and, listen, he cut a deal. He basically said last time, all right, what do y'all want? All right, I'm appoint all the judges y'all want. I'm going to sit here. He doesn't care about, first of what, Donald Trump was pro-choice. He doesn't care about white evangelicals. He doesn't care about any of these people. He's like, he wants power.

Okay, great. Y'all want that? go right ahead. Cool, whatever. I'm going to give you the judges. He stands out of here and they're like, oh, he's the most pro-life. That's all nonsense. It's nonsense. And what they have done is they've made a deal with the devil. And I'm saying that for a reason. You look at their particular actions. And what they are all about right now. And again, when I looked at the memorial service, when I look at the things that Charlie Kirk said, I'm sitting there going, how in the world can y'all say, that's Jesus? How can you even fix your mouth, speaker Mike Johnson, okay, and you're sitting here, and he's supposed to be the super duper Christian, and I'm going, wait a minute, I'm sorry, how in the world can you say you love Jesus and you love scripture and all of that, but you cut money from the poor? Mm-hmm. I'm just trying to understand, listen, I was born and raised Catholic.

First 25 years of my life was Catholic, so we only saw the miscellette every Sunday. But since I was 25, the last 30-plus years, I've actually read the Bible. Jesus talked a whole lot about the poor, helping those in need. And what these folks are saying is, damn them, we're going to ride with the billionaires. Yeah, you could use the word it is antichrist. it is the opposite of what Christ taught. And the reality is, if you think about it, it would be the ultimate deception

to have that which is against Christ or antichrist to hide itself inside a religion with the name of Christ. And I believe that's what we're seeing right now. The Book of Revelation, the actual word behind it is apocalypse. And I know many of us have like a modern understanding of what apocalypse is, but the actual original Greek, it means literally an unveiling. And a part of what the writer behind the Book of Revelation is doing, and a lot of people

see that book, and they're like, man, that guy, he must have been like strung out on mushrooms or something. It's so symbolic and chaotic and it looks like he's having hallucinations. But when you get into the book, it's incredibly profound of how John is writing about what's happening in that oppressive first-century world with this authoritarian dictator or leaders that had been passed down from the Caesars. And what you see is John is encouraging these followers of Jesus because you have religion getting in bed with empire

and some being convinced that it was may actually be the way, like the way to peace, the way to salvation. They bought into this lie. They bought into a myth of like redemptive violence. And John says, no, no, no, no. What I'm trying to do here is I want to expose, I want to pull the curtain back. I want to unveil what's happening because I want you to see behind the scenes of actually what is going on here.

And a part of what we're doing as a collective, so I pastor this church, it's called Vining's Lake. It's in Mableton, Georgia, which is like 20 minutes north of downtown Atlanta. It's an amazing group of people, so much diversity. But a part of what we're trying to do is on a local level, we're trying to pull back the curtain every time we gather going, Hey, did you guys see that? Did you hear that? And what did you hear? Because here's what I heard.

So you can take statements from Charlie Kirk. You can watch his memorial service, and you could look at that, and a lot of evangelicals are like, oh, look at that. What a great man. And you can also begin to realize this truth, that just because it has the name of Christ doesn't mean it is the way of Christ. and we, as a collective, are going to continue so long as this administration keeps continuing to insist on using Christ's name, using God's name, which I would argue they're using it in vain, that is the definition of using God's name in vain, as long as they continue to use God's name, we will, as a collective, continue to pull the curtain back, an attempt to show our community and our way. world what this actually is. And what it is is a co-opting and a hijacking of a beautiful movement that started years ago by a Nazarene, a brown-skinned Nazarene, not a white Republican gun-toting Jesus of the imagination of Evangelion. But I mean a brown-skinned Jesus, a revolutionary

who flipped tables over in the temple and who actually was crucified. by emerging of the Roman Empire and the specific areas of Judaism of their day, this Jesus, we're going to continue to try to show the world his way, his movement, and continue to expose what this administration is doing that Jesus would absolutely push against and never be a symbol for.

Before I've gone on our panel for questions, are you getting pushback? Are there people who known you for years who went to college with you? There are church members who said, I'm sorry, Pastor, you've gone way too far. I can't listen to any of this because we saw a whole lot of people posting, oh, your preacher, if he was not extolling the virtues of Charlie Kirk the Sunday after he was shot and killed, then you should leave that church. Yes.

The dog whistles for the far right have been heard. They hear it, they know it, and they're coming after lots of folks, because I've had conversations. but I will tell you, people like me at my social intersection, I think they despise just about more than anyone because I can expose exactly what they're doing, because I grew up underneath them, so I know the language, and I know what's happening. Now, our church has a whole history. I mean, back seven, eight years ago, when the first administration came in, I began to speak on two subjects that killed our church. And when I say killed it, at one point we had 700 people, we got down, to 12. So my biggest fear as a pastor came true. And the two subjects that killed it were not LGBTQIA plus. By time we got to same-sex marriage, we got a standing ovation. It wasn't that.

The two subjects that killed it were one, I talked about capitalism, two, nationalism. In my opinion, those two subjects are two of the most dangerous subjects to speak about in the Bible Belt of the South. And when I started talking about nationalism in the merging of Christianity and white Christian nationalism, even in the first term, there was a slow and then speedy exodus. And our church died. It died. My biggest fears came true. Then COVID came. We didn't meet for a year and a half. And then we came out of COVID. And there were still probably 12 to 20 people. And we all looked at each other going, we need community now more than ever. So how about we continue to gather? And we did. The second time Trump came in about eight months ago, the opposite effect happened,

Roland. Instead of a whole bunch of people leaving, our building right now is filled with capacity. People have come in that have left old churches, people that are walking away from evangelicals. Some of them call themselves ex-vangelicals. Some of them call themselves post-Christians, because they've seen it. I'm telling you they've seen it. They understand what they're seeing and there is a rise of people, specifically in our area in Atlanta, that are showing up because they're saying, you know what, we still love this Jesus in the subversive nature of this Jesus, but what we have seen in how Jesus has been used, we won't know part of. And so they're leaving a lot of these places, and they're coming into our spaces, and it has been, as wild as this might sound,

some of the hardest, most difficult times as a pastor, and I would just say both administrations. Roland, I cried the second time Donald Trump got elected, and I'll tell you why, many reasons, but one of which was, and forgive my selfishness, but one of which was, my God, I don't think I can pastor through another term of this man. But what I realized in the second term is I'm not the man I was in the first term. I'm prepared now. I am convinced that all of our voices matter. Not just some, all of them matter.

And so we encourage our people right now. Man, don't sit back. Like, let your family know. Don't sit back at the family gathering when the racist comments thrown and just kind of giggle to the side. I don't really want to cause any trouble. No, this is the moment where we are to step in, speak up, and say, you know what, not today. We're not doing that. We're not having that conversation.

And I will not entertain ideas like that. And this is a part of what we're trying to navigate as a community because we have people, Roland, that are filled in our building that are navigating very complex relational dynamics right now. Renita, you're there in Georgia. You get the first question. Yeah, so not a question so much, but a challenge to the pastor. My dad also was a pastor in the South, so I definitely saw Christianity from a different perspective. And what my challenge is to you is for you to read every single piece of black history that you can get your hands on, because this is not a recent hijacking.

This is not Christianity since the beginning of this country has always been used to advance white supremacy. During slavery time, slave masters would tell slaves, the more you work and the more obedient you are, the closer you are to Jesus, the better Christian than you are being. Slaves weren't allowed to read books unless it was the Bible, and the Bible was used as this is the only thing that you can read. So even after slavery, when you look at reconstruction, during that time you had things like the black codes where it was illegal for black folks to speak to groups of other black people unless it was in church through Christianity.

giving Christian sermons, and even those sermons had to be approved by white folks. Like, the words literally had to be approved. And then you brought up some about the moral right, and you talked about the KKK and how they used Christianity to support what they were doing. So the challenge is for you to read every single piece of black history because Christianity has always been used to advance white supremacy in this country. And that's why I think your congregation really struggled, as you said, when you talked about capitalism, that goes back to what I was saying about, you know, understanding that the

harder you work and the more obedient you are as a slave being told that that made you closer to Jesus and that much closer to getting in heaven, that same type of stuff is what goes back to capitalism. And then the nationalism of always using Christianity to say that black people need to be a subclass and white people should inherently be in charge and this needs to stay a majority white country speaks to nationalism. It's always been used this way. And it won't end when Trump is no longer there because it's always been the history of this country. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think a part of our task as a local collective is to de-center the whiteness.

And so part of the way we do that, specifically at a local level, is we just bring in those who have been pushed to the edges. And we elevate, first of all, we buy their writings, we buy their books, and we do our best to elevate their voices as well. And they're obviously a part of us. I mean, they're part of our teaching team. They're part of our leadership, things like that. I think that's critical moving forward. And I could not agree more, and I've been trying to explain this to my own group of people. I think it's easy to scapegoat and say, oh, that man is the problem over there.

And the reality is I am actually getting ready to release a book. It's called Discovering Your Internal Universe, right here. It comes out next week, October 9th. It's about anxiety, panic, and fear, but the entire book is about doing our own shadow work, like going within and actually working out all that is deep within us that we have repressed, we have ignored, we have turned our head away from and tried to pretend it wasn't there. And a part of the concern for white males right now is even those that are pushing hard against what's happening is I think there is a way to both do our own internal work, our own shadow work is Carl Young. calls it. And at the same time, simultaneously call out the unconscious acts of those who are

oppressing people around us. And both needs to be done. And this is a part of even when I look at the Charlie Kirk situation, I say, okay, that's clear to me. That isn't like Christianity. I think the word for it is racism. These comments are a racist. I simultaneously acknowledge this man in my opinion is human. He's made in the image of God. And at the same time, what he said heard a lot of people around me, a lot of our congregation, even me. And I would say it must be condemned. I can hold both those together at the same time. And a part of what I think the challenge is, is as we call out the oppression around us, we also do our own or work simultaneously. And the reason I say that is because it's my point. It's easy to throw it all

on this man. And I think one of the reasons we love fingers over there is because as a white male, sometimes it's easier to point out the racism in Trump than it is to recognize it in me. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes. Then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight. People using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know True Crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little. bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL cover zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home?

Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agreetoagree.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. And one of the reasons that I am so quick to call it out is because I know how I was raised. And I have spent years in therapy, and that's not an exaggeration, years in therapy. And all of it was intertwined. Anxiety, panic, theology, racism, relational wounds, all of that dwelling in me.

And so what would it look like if instead of trying to clean the projection out there, what if we actually started here? and started trying to work on what was happening inside of me. And that goes back to your point. It's not one man. I've seen the vice president. I've seen the Speaker of the House. And just because, and when this man does leave, rest assured, racism is not dying. I see people my age younger who are still following people like a Charlie Kirk.

And all the red flags are going off going, okay, yep, this does it. with one man. This movement, this MAGA movement, doesn't end with one man. And so we've got work to do. But fortunately, I want to leave some hope. Fortunately, there's a whole collective of people that are right here at Bidding's Lake, and there's 150, almost a couple hundred of us who are doing our best to do the work. And many of them are young, and I've got to be honest, part of the reason I still gather with them, part of the reason I'm still a pastor, is because they honestly bring me hope. They bring me a little bit of hope. that, man, maybe there are some people out there whose eyes are opening right now and whose

souls are opening, and they're doing some good work in the world. Scott, good evening, pastor. Thank you for joining us. So much good in your presentation, and so much more I'd love to ask you. You know, generation. racism, each of us are not born with a racism gene, and yet we have generational racism because environmentally and at home, people who don't look like me are being taught to hate me simply because of the color of my skin. And I agree with everything you've said, but I don't think evangelicals or white Christian nationalists are that dumb. I think they're liars. I think they're lying to themselves and that they know what you say is so vitally true,

but they reject it because of power and the power of racism and the power of wanting to control to not lose a white privilege that they did not earn, that somehow sharing with people of color in this country means they're giving up something, which they are not. I can agree with everything you say, but then have you thought much about how we change this? I mean, you have such a thoughtful presentation, the truth, it takes courage, you almost lost your church, but based on truth, it's still there, and you're still preaching the message. What are the top three things that need to happen in this country? Well, that each of us needs to do, to right the ship, if you will, and to take Christ out of white nationalism

or take Christianity out of white nationalism. Yeah, that's a great, great question. I wonder if maybe the first thing to do is, I don't know, maybe start with ourselves, part of what I was just saying. I think that's where I began. I had to confront my own demons. I had to confront my own way of being condemned. growing up in the South as a Southern Baptist pastor's kid. There were experiences I had.

My father-in-law, for example, my father-in-law was fired from a church in Alabama in 1999 for baptizing a black individual. Ninety-nine for baptizing a black individual. So these are experiences I've had. No joke. Well, my wife and I met, one of the first stories we connected on with this, because my father, Southern Baptist pastor, had a very similar experience, though didn't get fired, but took a lot of heat for baptizing a person of color in a little town called Blakely, Georgia at the time, at a church. And so we grew up under this environment going, oh, that's interesting, but simultaneously, while you have those experiences, you're being conditioned in a culture that you're not even fully like aware of. and some of these cultures it can be subtle slights right like be careful around that neighborhood do you hear that do you know what I mean like like those are things that you're picking up along the way and then what happened for me is when I grew up and got a little bit older I realized oh my goodness I have more in me than I ever thought I did and I have to unlearn or as you know some of the great writers of our time have already said I mean we brought in

at our church, Austin Channing Brown. I don't know if you know her. She has a fantastic book called I'm Still Here. I don't know of anyone that says it much better than her work. And she came in and shook the foundations of our church. And a lot of people did get upset. They couldn't handle it. Call it white fragility.

Call it what you want. But they couldn't handle it. But I think a part of what we do is we start here, me as a white male, cisgender, heterosexual, like me. I start right here. I do my internal work. And then I think second, what we've been talking about, I think there has to be an exposing going on.

I don't know about you all, but I am so tired of playing these religious games. Like getting up, having a show, singing our songs, and then walking out the door and being more racist than anyone you could ever imagine and then convincing ourselves or trying to pretend that we aren't racist. when to your credit what you just said I agree with you I think most do know and if I'm honest with you I wish I I could tell you that wasn't true because it does break my heart it breaks my heart because I'll tell you why because it's people that raised me and it's hard to see it

because what it does is it begins to open even your own understandings and this is why you hear right now in the ex-vangelical movement people talking about deconstruction. And a part of the reason that word is so critical is because the moment you start seeing, as the former person said, the merging that has been around forever of white supremacy and Christianity, the moment you begin to study that history, all of a sudden the foundations that you were raised on begin to crumble. And so then you have to let it just go, like crumble all the way down to the last bolt, and this is what happened to my own faith. And then what begins to happen is you're just standing there going, where do I go from here,

and you start attempting some sense of reconstruction. But hopefully in that reconstruction, you have expanded the voices and the friendships and the relationships around you to where you have people from all walks of life, indigenous culture, black culture, Latino culture, speaking in their perspectives in life. And it helps kind of help you reorganize, reframe, reshape, and begin to reconstruct maybe what Jesus actually intended the entire time he was here. And so I would say those are a couple of things. Let's start with ourselves. Let's move and begin to expose what we're seeing here.

And then lastly, I would just say, I do still believe at the local level change makes a difference. And so, for an example, we have an election coming up. We have a city council election coming up in November. We tell our people, we don't want to hear you griping and complaining about who the president is if you're not voting this November in the city council decision. Exactly. Because local officials matter. In Cobb County, which is where I'm at, listen, that Georgia matters.

We are a state right now, particularly in this, you know, the mid-term. and the next election, we are a state that's going to be critical. And so collectives like ours, churches like ours, that have a steeple that look like a traditional church, but we've got a whole bunch of folks who've deconstructed and reconstructed and reframing and trying to get back to the original Jesus movement that got hijacked from Constantine forward, like there's a whole group of us that are attempting to move into our families going, do you hear what you're saying? Do you see what you are supporting? And some of them do. And I would also say, there are still a couple that I believe with all my heart. They just don't see it

and they don't understand it. Now, part of the reason that is, and hear me out, is because they sit around and they watch Fox News all day long. And so they're in their echo chamber and they're just hearing these narratives being repeated. And so when I show up for the family gathering and say, hey, are you familiar with the Access Hollywood tape? Because you said you're a devout follower of Jesus. But yet he said he could grab women wherever he want. How does that sit with you? Tell me how you voted for a man that cares anything, doesn't care anything about integrity, and seems to treat women like property and is a convicted felon. And on our list, we could go. And here's what I hear a lot of times.

I didn't hear about that, to which I pause and say, are they lying, or have they watched so much Fox that they actually haven't heard about this? And so part of my job is to say, okay, that's between you and God, but allow me to inform you, because it's obvious you're not watching anything other than Fox. So let me inform you, and here's the information, and you deliver the information, and then they choose to do with it what they want. to do with it. So I do still believe there are some on the edges that are so enveloped in this Fox domain, in this MAGA cult that they're not hearing the outsiders. And I would just say this one way, maybe one way we can actually change this thing is when our parents and our parents' parents' parents and our grandparents, when they see their own flesh and blood. speaking this truth

maybe maybe it just and this is my hope and I still hold on to the hope maybe it shifts a little bit and tender rises the heart enough where they say oh because what we're doing

is interrupting their narrative because what has Fox News told them Fox News has told them oh immigrants they're dangerous stay away from them they're dangerous people I mean, listen to the way this administration dehumanizes people of color, dehumanizes immigrants, dehumanizes these people that don't look like him, act like him, dress like him, talk like him.

And part of what we can do as family members that they know us, they love us, is when we speak up and share these truths, we are disrupting the narrative that they're hearing because then what they're saying is, oh, wait a minute, Everything Fox News said was left-wing, liberal, Democrat, LGBTQI, destroying America. Wait a minute, that's not my son. That's not my son-in-law. I know my son-in-law, and he's actually trying to follow Jesus here. Yes. So maybe one relationship at a time we can attempt to disrupt this lie, and it is a lie, this lie that Fox keeps speaking.

they have taken, they have taken our parents. They have taken our parents. And I would just say as a young man with parents and in-laws and grandparents, it's unbelievable to me how you all warned us day in and day out to not get sucked in. And yet you are the very people who got sucked in to a. cult to a movement that is the antithesis to everything you taught us. You told us integrity mattered. You told us that marginalized people matter. You told us to take care of the poor. You taught us all these things. You told us to read the Bible. You told us it was inerrant,

inspired, infallible, and that whatever you do, don't abandon the way of Jesus. And all I would say is friends we have it we stuck true to what you've asked us to do we just took the way of jesus very seriously and now we're calling out our evangelical people and we're saying you have fallen down a slippery slope turns out the slippery slope works both ways and you slip down the fox news slide and we are asking you to open your eyes and we are praying that your heart gets tenderized and you begin to see what many people see around you. And that is that Jesus would not stand for the things that you are standing for. And so maybe it's a call.

It's just a call. It's a call to come home. It's a call to home. And one of the things we're trying to do as a church is extend the door. Honestly, if you've been a part of MAGA and you're just now opening up and waking up, your eyes and you're going, oh, we messed up. Come.

The prophets had a word for it. Repent. Turn around. Come back. Yep. You preach that thing, Pastor. I appreciate you joining us on the show. Next time I'm in Atlanta, I am going to drop by your church.

and I would love to worship there and I'm definitely gonna when I get back to D.C. seeing you a copy of my book. Oh, please do. Roland, I would absolutely love it. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, seriously, all three of you that are on here.

I don't know you, but I know this. We need more conversations like this and I am grateful for the work you do. So I hope you're blessed. I hope you feel extra inspiration and keep speaking up, keep doing the work you're doing. And I'm always in Atlanta if you need a place to stay.

We're here. all right i appreciate it thanks a lot thank you very much man uh folks that was a great conversation uh and i'm doing something with bishop william barber we're actually working working on a special on white christian nationalism uh i'm going to be we're looking at november so they can't wait for that so one of the reasons why you're seeing us uh have these conversations is going to lead up to that because this thing is real y'all hi there this is josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes,

then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero.

We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home?

Hey. Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. This thing is real that we are seeing and experiencing, and we must be able to confront it. All right, going to a break.

We'll be right back. Rolling Mark on the Black Star Network. Now streaming on the Black Star Network. I have name recognition, but I tore. more than any rapper. And it's a lot of overseas stuff. And it's like, I'm going all over to, I've been to, I've been to 80 countries

in my, in my lifetime. And sometimes I'll do interviews with people, and they'd be like, so, what you've been doing? Like, what you've been doing? You know what's that? Like, I just came back from Belgium and Brazil and South Africa, what you've been doing? Right.

This week on A Balanced Life with Dr. Jackie, we're kicking off our series on Entrepreneur's Journey, putting in the work. Join us on this week's episode as we talk about what does it mean to start your business and get into a career that really means something to you. It was uncertain whether I was going to make it or fail, but I was determined to show up every single day

and to keep pushing. You know, if you're helping enough people get what they want, you will get what you want. That's this week on A Balance Life with Dr. Jackie here on Black Star Network. is the weaponization of selective compassion and people who so often don't say anything about the crisis of gun violence. We're going to dig into all of it, what this means for the state of gun violence and the state of free speech.

You're watching the other side of change only on the Black Star Network. Hello, I'm Isaac Hayes III, founder and CEO of fan base, and I'm here with a very important message. We are at a turning point in the black community where we must have equity in the apps we use that scale to billions of dollars. But this time, we own the infrastructure. We own the culture and we shape the future. And fanbase is the future. Fanbase combines the free functionality of Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube into an all-in-one platform built for the evolution of social media and monetization. With over 1.4 million users, that's real proof that we are

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Thank you. Next on the Black Table with me, Greg Carr. An hour of living history with Dr. Richard Mariba Kelsey, thinker, builder, author, and one of the most important and impactful elders in the African American community. He reflects on his full and rich life and shares his incomparable wisdom about our past,

past, present, and future. African genius is saying that my uncle was a genius. My brother was a genius. My neighbor was a genius. I think we ought to drill that in ourselves and move ahead rather than believing that I got it. That's next on the Black Table, here on the Black Star Network. Lil Thompson with winwithblackmen.org. You're watching Roland Martin unfiltered. Me

But y'all got Folks, it's Monday We have our Fit Live Win segment This month, September is Prostate Cancer Awareness Month And many folks were prized earlier this year when singer Montel Jordan announced that he was diagnosed with early stage prostate cancer. Then he faced a second scare where Montel Jordan joins us right now along with urologist, Dr. Randy Vance. Montel and Dr. Vince, glad to have you both on the show.

Montel, I want to start with you. So take us through this. So you announced it in January, early detection, and it did you. you have the surgery, what took place, and then what was the second announcement? Yes, thank you. First of all, thank you for your platform, man. I love you, and I'm glad to be here with you tonight. January, 2024, that's when early detection from PSA levels of 10 years plus detected

that there was early first stage prostate cancer. And from that standpoint, we vetted through most of 2024 of the different treatments available to me, active observation, radiation, different treatments, seeds, things like that. I chose to have the radical prostatectomy surgery on November 5th of 2024. Came back, clean margins, but the PSA level did not, like, completely dropped down to zero. And so monitoring, still going for screenings, doing the things I'm supposed to do. About three weeks ago, almost four weeks ago, that was when I went back for a checkup and found out the PSA level had risen just a little bit

and found out that there is some more, a little more cancer in my left, lymph node, as well as some places in the prostate bed. It's almost undetected, but basically this means the second round of battling cancer at this point. Dr. Vince explained that, explained that because some might think, well, after what took place the first time, that it wouldn't come back. Yeah. Thank you for allowing me to be here. with you today. And I'll first want to applaud Mr. Jordan for the strength that it took to

even come out and share this diagnosis. So when it comes down to it, you know, early stage prostate cancer, what we know is that when men are treated appropriately, essentially 100% of men live after that diagnosis. Now, when we remove the prostate gland, the PSA that you heard referred to stands for prostate specific antigen. That's just a protein that's made by the prostate. gland, and when we start to see the levels and the bloodstream go up, that kind of clues us in that there might be prostate cancer present. So after you have your prostate removed, the PSA level should go to what we can call undetectable. And then after that, if you start to see that the PSA is increasing incrementally, it kind of gives you a clue that there might be some prostate cancer cells that were left behind. you know, even in the cases where we have what we call a negative margin, which means that things

might have been completely confined to the prostate, there still could be some cancerous cells that linger, and PSA is the way that we picked that up. Montel, when you, were you getting regular checkups and, you know, prior to January, what were you doing in terms of monitoring this? Just curious. Yeah, absolutely. From the time I was about 40 years old, 41, I regularly would go for checkups. I would have a yearly physical.

And so for a lot of men, the whole taboo about going to having the prostate check, the finger check and the rectum, all of that, I got past that. I wanted to make sure that I was doing what I needed to do to. to be in a place even where I am right now. And just for the record, it was not the finger check that detected cancer. It was literally having a decade plus of blood tests where I could go back and look at my PSA levels

and see that they gently, incrementally had risen throughout the years. And then over the past year or two, there were significant jumps. And so I want to say that for men out there that may, you know, take that, well, I don't want to know or I don't want to go. I ain't nobody going to do this to me. That thing, it's not even that anymore.

Medicine and technology has made it to where you just need to go get your blood check because early detection helps save lives. And what the doctor was saying is that 99% of early detection in men is curable and treatable. And if I could just side by really quickly, exactly how he explained it, that I had clear margins after having my prostate removed. But once they biopsyed the prostate that was taken out of me, they found that it was not early first stage. It was more of a stage two, more aggressive. So from that standpoint, there probably were cells that wanted to stick around or hang out or give me a little more of a fight. So very accurate.

Doc, so explain to the audience because it's interesting. We've had these different recommendations as to do you do the finger test? Do you just take the PSA test? And so is it based upon age? So I was talking to, I remember I was talking to the former head of Health in Cook County, my man, Terry, and he said, listen, he said, for black men, know that regular advice. He said, get that regular check. So what advice do you specifically give to black men when it comes to getting a prostate check, how it should be done?

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. We've been on several segments together. And, you know, one of the things I tell people all the time, the digital exam is what you're referring to. That's the prostate exam with the finger. That's optional. What is. What is a recommended is having your PSA tested angle. So if you are kind of weighing a decision where it's like, look, I'll get tests, I'll get screen for prostate cancer, but I don't want the DRE, the blood test will do just fine. So I don't want any men to be deterred by that. And like we said earlier, majority of men approaching 100% when I diagnosed early will live after that diagnosis. And it's not something that will take you out of here. But when we talk about black men specifically,

which is likely to die from prostate cancer than our white counterparts. And that's where the problem lies. And that is because too many men are being diagnosed at advanced stages or when they have symptoms. And I tell people all the time, and especially my patients, you might not have any symptoms and you still have prostate cancer. So we have to dispel this notion that you have to have the DRE or the finger in the butt or you have to have symptoms in order to have prostate cancer because that's simply not true. Questions from my panel? Scott, you're first.

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How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey! Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agreetoagree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. Thank you, Mr. Jordan, and doctor.

My dad was a prostate cancer survivor. He got it early, and he was in his 50s or 60s. And after a couple of two or three days in the hospital, he went on and had a normal life. That generation of men are the ones who won't go to a doctor, but they called it early. My PSAs have been in line with not prostate cancer. I think the numbers are 1.2. but I'm always concerned as someone whose dad had it that I'm going to get it and I want to catch it early

and so any thoughts in that regard? I don't take comfort that my numbers at 63 years old are in line because I know that my dad had it. Am I right or wrong or can you comment on what else I should be looking at because I'm not the guy that won't go to the doctor? I get physicals every six months to a year. Yeah, I'll leave it to you, Mr. Jordan. I can jump in.

Either one is fine. Yeah, I'll start out. I'll say, first of all, if you are in your 60s and your level is like at one point something, that is beautiful. I can tell you, even with it maybe running in the family, most times, and Doc can check me on this, anything that gets above a six is when, when things start to become, for me, it was told that anything that was sub-6 was fine.

And so I can go back and I can look over a decade ago and I was at like a 3.1 and then the next year I was 3.2 and the next year I was 3.4 and the next year I was 3.6. It wasn't until later, you know, years later, then it started to increase to like a 4.2 and then a 4.5. then a 5.1, and then a 6.1, and then at that point, as it got closer to six, then that's when it was like, hey, we need to do a biopsy. We need to do some extra screenings and things like that. And it did run in my family. I have an uncle that had. I have a dad that had. I had another uncle. I had a grandmother that had mastectomy. And so from that standpoint, yes, if you know it runs in your family, it does make sense to check, but it sounds, and I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like at the level you are at getting regular, checkups, regular physicals, is not a place where you're at at a one point something that would draw any attention to that. Yeah, I completely agree. I got one quick one.

Can I have one more quick one? Hold on. Hold on, Scott. I want the, I want the Dr. Vince to respond. Go ahead. Oh, yeah. No, I was saying, I completely agree. I mean, to be in your 60s with a PSA of one something, it's very encouraging.

Now, you can have a conversation with your doctor to do. you know, a more intense screening program or routine where maybe you do every six months instead of once a year, but that's the conversation you should have with your doctor. And not only are we looking at the level when we take these, we're looking at the train. And so if we see these persistent increases in your PSA numbers, those kind of clueless in a little bit more, even if your PSA is more, that, hey, we might need to do a little more digging in terms of evaluations. and that could be a prostate MRI or a biopsy, but, you know, that's the conversation

you should definitely have with your physician. For sure. Yeah. All right, Scott, your second question. Yeah, real quick. You know, let's be honest. With the fellas, you know, you hear prostate cancer. They get real concerned about that part of their body,

their ability to perform. I mean, we measure ourselves on lots of stuff on the external. How do we get our black men 40 and older, even that generation before us or after us, to say, hey, that may or may not affect your sexual performance, but are you going to value that over your life or cancer spreading? It just seems to be a hard argument. When I have it with my buddies, a lot of my buddies just don't want to know as long as they

can perform, and they're terrified of having surgery down there. there because they're afraid, but also afraid of not being able to form anymore. Those are realities, not smart, but realities. Doc, what do you have to say to those men who have said that to me in my social circles? I mean, I'll be lying to as a black man myself, like, that's something I think about all the time. You know, if I have a prostate cancer, like, yeah, you know, but I would say that I also prefer to be here for my family more than anything else. So that's the one thing I would say is a priority for me. But the other thing is, you know, when we started doing these surgeries for prostate

cancer a long time ago, the techniques that we had available to us weren't as good as they are now. The technologies weren't as good as they are now. And so one of the things that I always encourage my patients to do is as a surgeon, they'll see me to talk about prostate removal. I send them to the radiation oncologist to talk about radiation. We sit there. Now, I actually track those outcomes in terms of erections and things like that. And I tell them, like, these are where my numbers, this is what my numbers show. This is what it shows in terms of outcomes as far as functional outcomes if you have radiation. And then we just talk through it.

And whatever way they choose to go, I'm going to support them in that decision because radiation and surgery ultimately are equally as effective in curing cancer. It's just up to the patient at that point. Thank you. Oneida? Yes, thank you, Mr. Jordan, for sharing your story. I know that this is going to have such a big impact, and it's really courageous of you to do so. My question is for the doctor.

Let's just, you know, there's a lot of talk about patients needing to advocate for themselves. Let's just say everybody is not as lucky to have a doctor like you who cares. What are the top questions that a, specifically black men should be asking if they get told that they have a diagnosis of prostate cancer? Yeah, so it's really two things. And, I mean, this goes for any cancer. It's stage and grade, right? So when I was in med school, remembering how do I differentiate between which one stage and spread, both start with us? So when we talk about stage, where is that cancer located?

Is it confined to the kind that it developed or has it spread somewhere else? The other thing is great. So we have what we call a great group scoring system. So, you know, I say that specifically because some men who have what we call a great group one or low risk prostate cancer, we don't even treat, we just do active surveillance, which means we're monitoring it because that type of prostate cancer doesn't behave aggressively. So I would say starting off with those two things, staging grade, and then from there, you can kind of build on that conversation around what are the options for you, because

treatment might not even be needed depending on what your stage in grade is. all right then um so montale your final comment uh first of all before i want you to do that scott talked about this concern that brothers have when it comes to sexual performance listen we've had dr rachel on our show uh her sex institute she deals with a lot of men who suffer from erectile dysfunction uh we've had her on that conversation uh and so brothers if that's your concern. She does a lot of work with men, a lot of black men who've had that very issue. And so consult Dr. Rachel. Check out the previous interview we had with her on our YouTube channel. She's a sexologist. She's a medical doctor. But she actually has her institute. I'm

a pull up in a second that deals with that very thing. So I think a lot of y'all, if that's a concern, as you already heard, listen, your life is so important. But she has the Dr. Rachel Institute, follow her YouTube channel as well as Dr. Rachel Dr. R-A-C-H-A-E-L. So that's that. So, Montel, your final word for, again, for a brother out

there, young brother, older brother, who's, they don't like going to the doctor, they don't want to hear bad news, they ain't trying any of that. What do you say to that person who's watching or listening? Yeah, what I would say to my brothers,

and I would also say to the women in in the lives of these men who love them, the mothers, the wives, the sisters, the aunties out there, women that have influence and that have life and death and the power of the tongue that are able to speak into these men that you love, please push them, pull them, encourage them, do whatever you need to do to help these men get checked. When I got diagnosed, I was told this is the most treatable form of cancer when caught early. And so from that standpoint, when something is treatable and when we know that one out of every eight

men is going to be diagnosed with prostate cancer and 70% of those men are going to look like us, 70% is, those are huge numbers. And so it's on us to make sure that we do, if you don't trust a doctor, find a new doctor. You need to figure it out. But early diagnosis saves lives. It has saved my life and continued screenings is still saving my life. I'm a global ambassador for zero prostate cancer as this is how we do it is celebrating 30 years zero prostate cancer celebrating 30 years coming up next year i plan on going on tour rolling and i'm doing a 30 city tour we're calling it this is how we cure it uh and we're doing that where we're going to go to 30 cities we're going to do concerts we're going to screen the documentary i'm working on and get men screened

at that screening and i do want to throw this out there from the time i got diagnosed i started filming a documentary called Sustain. And if people would like to know how they can help support this film that we're putting on from everything we're going in right now, because I'm not on the other side of cancer, I'm in the mud of it right now,

and along this journey, it's difficult to fight cancer and fundraise at the same time. So if people want to go to sustain themovie.com, you can see a trailer of what we've been filming of my journey and how I'm continuing this journey, as I

continue with the therapy I have coming up in the month of October and November. So you're hearing it from a guy that I've sold records. I've had accolades. I've done a lot of stuff. But what's most important to me, as a pastor, I help save souls. And as an ambassador, I want to help save some lives. And so as a man, man to man, I'm giving you a mandate. Please just go and get your blood level check.

Go and get a regular physical. and you would rather know so that you can do something and you would also like to know that everything is good because prayerfully as men of faith as I'm a man of faith I believe God's best for your life

I believe is best for my life and from that standpoint I'm standing on the front lines here screaming it, shouting it, whispering it for my brothers out there please please your life is just as valuable to me as my life is so I would encourage you to go

and get checked all right montel jorton i certainly appreciate dr vince i appreciate it as well thank you so very much and monta look forward to seeing you on the road on that tour yes sir god bless ma'am thanks a bunch all right folks that's it for us let me thank ronita let me thank scott as well for being on today's panel i certainly appreciate it thanks a bunch uh folks uh today's show the perfect example why you have to support roland mart unfiltered in the black star network the conversations that we had here, you're not going to see anywhere else. Y'all ain't seen no black urologists

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Basketball Hall of Famer Alex English had his Celebrity Golf Classic today. we had so much great stuff. We went over with the pastor. So I'm going to share that with you tomorrow or Wednesday what took place here. And so some really great stuff that happened here, Kim, the work that he's doing here in Columbia, South Carolina, for so many great nonprofits.

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So we have all those products. Give me a shot right now from the news desk. So not that. Please stop showing that graphic. You should be showing the desk of the products, please. We got to show the products. Thank you very much. Folks, all those products, again, we got relishes, they got sauces, we got backpacks, we got

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folks that's it from here from Columbia South Carolina I appreciate all the folks with the Alex English Celebrity Golf Classic their hospitality has been fantastic thank you so very much I appreciate it and I look forward

to coming back next year I will see you guys tomorrow from our Blackstar Work Studios in Washington, D.C. I'll see you tomorrow. Y'all take care. Holla! Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes,

then have we got good news for you? Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight. People using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, Legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know True Crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home? Hey. Hey, we're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home?

Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at Agree2agree.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. The NFL is rolling. That's right, and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. It's in the name, NFL Daily. So you'll have fresh content in your feed all season long.

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