#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Trump's Project 2025: Up Close and Personal: Chapter 3-The Death of Science.

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

n Chapter 3, the fact-based fictional story of Dr. Yvette Hardman and JJ Newsom depicts the dismantling of expertise and science-based decision making in the federal government under a possible second Trump administration guided by Project 2025. Dr. Hardman, an experienced infectious disease expert, is removed from her position at the CDC and replaced by JJ Newsom, an unqualified political loyalist with no relevant experience. This reflects Project 2025's plan to fill government positions with partisan appointees rather than nonpartisan experts. The new administration rejects science-based pandemic response recommendations from Dr. Hardman instead prioritizing political and economic considerations over public health. This aligns with Project 2025's directives to limit the CDC's ability to make public health recommendations. The story highlights the Trump administration's hostility towards science and the displacement of experienced civil servants, which Project 2025 seeks to accelerate through measures like the "Schedule F" executive order to reclassify and fire federal employees. Overall, the narrative illustrates how a second Trump term guided by Project 2025 would undermine the role of expertise and independent scientific advice in government, with potentially disastrous consequences for public health and safety. We'd like to thank all the artists who volunteered their time to make this episode: CCH Pounder, Richard Schiff and Jason Kravits who read the chapters and Omid Abtahi, Tom Nichols, Laurie Burke and Joanne Carducci who did the voices. Sound design by Marilys Ernst and Jon Moser. Trump's Project 2025: Up Close and Personal was written by David Pepper and produced by Pepper, Melissa Jo Peltier and Jay Feldman and is a production of Ovington Avenue Productions and The Bill Press Pod.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersilling.org brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, I'm Bill Press, host of the Bill Press pod, and this is Trump's Project 2025 Up Close and Personal, Chapter 3. Now, if you've been listening to this series, you know that this podcast anticipates what would happen to everyday Americans were Trump ever to return to power. Yes, the people and the stories in this series are fictional, but the policies that upend each of their lives and the country, hey, they're all too real. Those situations are drawn directly from the pages of Project 2025

and Trump's own words and promises. This episode tells a story of what would happen when a longtime civil servant and disease specialist comes up against the unqualified partisans recruited for a second Trump administration by Project 2025. It's read for us by CCH Pounder. Chapter 3, Capital Monthly, Yvette Aardman by Rose Cunningham, Washington, D.C. You've got to be kidding me. The boyish, bleach-blonde Chip Manson barked over the large rectangular table where a dozen people were sitting. Shut down the entire facility? No way in hell are we going to do that. You want to turn the whole country upside down?

It was just the first of 10 recommendations Yvette Aardman planned to make at that meeting. And now a comms kid from the White House who had no business running this meeting was already throwing it back in her face. Yvette stole a quick glance to her right, towards the stately Dr. James Terekian, her only ally at the table, and the only other person qualified to be at the table, before responding. Two scientists, two civil servants, facing down whoever all these newcomers were. They'd gamed out their approach with some of the premier national experts on avian flu. Mr. Manson, she said calmly, patting several thick binders next to her, including the pandemic playbook. That step comes directly from the protocol that multiple White Houses have agreed to for years, going back to President Bush at the first sign of multiple victims

with severe respiratory distress. Excuse me? Manson yelled back, speckles of saliva hitting the table as his long, thin face turned beet red. Are you referring to that fucking playbook again? One by one, over the prior eight weeks, experts like themselves had been ushered out of the nation's most important federal posts across all agencies with missions to prevent another pandemic. Meeting formally since fall of 2024 through January 2025, they'd watched in alarm as growing signs of avian flu in livestock in the South and Midwest portended the virus spreading to humans.

They were now only one bad mutation and sloppy response away from a COVID-level crisis. The drama of the election and the victory of a science-denying candidate had kept the risk out of the national spotlight when faceless undocumented immigrants in the shadows of rural America were the first ones to get sick. That didn't make the news either. Now here they were, with Americans largely clueless about the potential for a devastating pandemic. Also clueless, Yvette thought, were these blank new faces now sitting around the table, the ones who'd replaced all those experts and scientists fired since January.

Following Chip Manson's absurd tirade, the new crew turned towards Yvette. Eight white men, one white woman, both had shown up for the first time at the February meeting, held deep in the dingy bowels of the old executive office building since the president's elimination of the West Wing's office for pandemic preparedness. The second time, the same president had axed it. The first time had left the country fatally unprepared for COVID-19 in 2020. But no one who'd learned from that mistake was back now.

This new administration wanted to again play down the whole thing and stick a partisan political hack at its helm, meaning politics would motivate the work. No science at all. Not real disease prevention. Three more new faces joined them for this meeting. And, as in the prior meeting, all three walked in clinging to a glossy manual with a large photo of the

president on its cover. No one had given Yvette a copy, but the content looked more political than official. Only Yvette and Dr. Terekian were left to witness the dramatic downgrade of public health personnel in such a short time. The public health experts whom these people replaced had more than two centuries among them of the world's richest experience, researching, tracking, and preventing the disease they were now confronting. Scientists and researchers and security experts,

doctors and veterinarians, all at the top of their fields. And critically, they'd worked together long enough that they comprised a live, interconnected web of pandemic fighters. They played it all out, challenged every assumption, refined every contingency plan, and all that work had led to the playbook Yvette had in front of her. No group had been better prepared on the planet for what they face. Yvette looked out at the ruins of it all. The new people staring at her were there largely due to recent political activity, fierce anti-science ideology or industry ties. Maybe they'd set the budget for a local health department or sewer system.

No direct experience. Two had even been fake electors from the attempt to overturn the 2020 election, rewarded for their loyalty. On paper, the brightest at the table were transplants from the right-wing think tanks. Smart, but driven by ideology. From those high-paying and corporate-backed ivory towers, they'd written tomes recommending the exact opposite of the playbook guidance. One had expounded on herd immunity as the best solution,

citing pseudo-studies from small countries. Let it spread fast, he advocated, which Yvette knew would kill millions. Her heart beat faster. Chip, we have war-gamed the scenario for years. Once multiple workers at a facility like this show serious symptoms, it means a new mutation may have occurred. We have to shut the plant down and begin detection and containment measures. The risk of spread is high, even if we do all that. Like tennis spectators, those around the table swiveled their heads back Chip's way. Science versus politics. Politics versus science. But unlike a good tennis match,

all knew who would win, including Yvette, because November had settled that contest. Chip Manson made up for in anger what he lacked in age and stature. Couldn't have been older than mid-thirties, skinny, his blonde hair thinning fast up both sides of his forehead. Eyes always seemed wide and red, a slick-talking political aide hired away from a Freedom Caucus house member. As young as he was, Chip had the one thing that counted these days in Washington. He was one of the president's closest confidants. That meant power. Raw, if intangible power. All of D.C., including the new people at that table, adhere that power now which meant no one talked back to

chick manson he slammed his open hand hard against the table the minute you shut that place down it's out you not only piss off industry but the press will run with this panic starts and prices go up that screws the whole economy right when we're getting started. One of the newcomers, an oversized man in a crumpled suit with thick round glasses and bad brown toupee, leaned forward and cleared his throat. One of the think tank transplants. I talked to the plant's CEO this morning. He says they've got it handled. They'll isolate the sick workers. They're illegals anyway. So the families who are down in Mexico are somewhere else. Sub in some others and keep going. The plant's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

The massive facility was actually near New Philadelphia, Ohio, about an hour from Cleveland, where Yvette had grown up, obsessed with becoming a veterinarian. She never thought she'd be in a room like this, representing the zoonotic infectious disease section of the Centers for Disease Control, defending the health of millions against an invisible virus and men like this.

Heads on the man's left and right nodded, as if the confident gut had handled. Assurance solved the problem. Thank you, Dan. Very helpful to know. Thanks for showing some initiative. Chip turned back to Yvette. You okay with that? He asked in a tone suggesting there was only one right answer. As they'd agreed before the meeting, Dr. Terekian now spoke up. Sir, I'm afraid that won't work. There are already more workers sick than we know.

This strain can incubate for up to two weeks without symptoms. And, as you say, these are immigrants. They bunk in overcrowded dormitories and drive to the plant packed eight to ten per vehicle. Out of fear, even after showing symptoms, most will hesitate to come forward. But the real problem is the meat itself. Those workers getting sick means that the plant is unsafe, and wherever that plant ships, its meat risks spreading it wider. It's a large-scale operation, which Dr. Hardman documents in her written presentation. As dramatic as it may feel, her recommendation is the correct one, and only the first of many. No one but Chip and Dan from the think tank even looked at Tarek

Yun. These people were still high on the election win, arrogant, geared up for political fights, defying and standing up to the deep state of scientists and experts in the government. They won promising to do just that, which meant science and expertise had lost, and Yvette knew they certainly weren't there to listen to the recommendations from an African-American woman with long, braided cornrows. Even if the silver cross she wore every day earned a quick, curious glance, they'd always return their gaze to her hair.

A major goal of the president was to eliminate DEI from all federal agencies. So Yvette knew that when these people looked her way, all they saw was DEI. Chip cleared his throne. Tarekian had thrown enough in that it simply couldn't be dismissed. Dan, please call the CEO and ask him about Dr. Tarekian's concerns. Hopefully he can deal with them without having to shut down. Yvette could feel her own temper boiling up, her body tensing. There was no way to deal with Dr. Terekian's concerns without a shutdown. Six workers with severe symptoms from avian flu meant it was too late for that. Hell, given the 50% mortality rate, higher than even the peak of COVID-19 in early 2020, three of those workers would likely die in less than a week if only these people knew the horror of how they would suffocate,

alone, drowning in their own ravaged lungs. But Chip, even acknowledging Terekian's words, was a small step in the right direction, a tiny victory. Terekian's words was a small step in the right direction. A tiny victory. Terekian knew it as well. I'm happy to join the call with you. I've worked with industry often on issues like this. Dan chortled, amused at the offer.

Most of their other faces smiled too. No need, Doc. You may have not gotten the memo yet, but industry's got a different attitude now that we're in charge. I'll make the call and report back. Chip took charge again. Okay, Dr. Hardman, that takes care of your first recommendation. Do you have any others? Any others, Yvette thought. Narrowing it just to ten had been work. Over the next 25 minutes, she managed to talk through four more steps. It didn't go well. The communication strategy was key, she explained,

striking the perfect balance of making the crisis real enough to spur Americans to protect themselves and reduce spread, but not so dire or hopeless to induce panic. Gently and without blaming the president, she explained that had been one of the costly mistakes from 2020. What she didn't say is that they'd felt like storm chasers warning of an imminent tornado as millions walked right past available shelters, and that the president's unscripted and cavalier words throughout had spurred the disastrous disconnect, leading to hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.

Next! Chip said it patiently when she completed the page. For her third recommendation, just as they'd gamed it out, she praised the president's 2020 surge of the COVID-19 vaccine. Chip smirked and waved his hand. Vaccines! Oh, he won't be doing that again this time. All but two around the table laughed out loud. I will not give one penny to any school that has a vaccine mandate or a mask mandate.

In just four years, the same president had entirely reversed his stance on vaccines, and his new crew reflected that. The next two steps were rejected just as quickly. As with the vaccine surge, all were rejected for hollow political considerations. No health, no science, no thought of any consequences beyond the next week's news cycle. If the nation were watching this meeting, they'd be horrified. So, facing the most dire risk of a major pandemic since COVID-19, a risk far more lethal than COVID, threatening to ravage much younger portions of. A guy who recently worked at a think tank funded by industry, calling up the CEO of the infected meat processing plant to ask that CEO

if they could quietly handle this massive risk to the American public themselves. The answer, of course, was no. But as she stood up from the hour from hell, Yvette knew full well the CEO would say yes. As Dan himself had suggested, the election result empowered that CEO to say yes. No follow-up questions needed. They didn't want to be seen leaving the meeting together, so she and Dr. Terekian took separate Ubers back to their respective offices. He to the Department of Health and Human Services and she to the CDC, while debriefing over their burner cell phones. You hold firm in there, and the presentation you circulated with them at least leaves a

paper trail. And you emailed it as well? Sure did. In a group email to all of them. So glad you got your words in. Might have been the only time you've broken through with some of those people, and your clarity gives us a leg to stand on. Yes, but Chip and that Dr. Fowler shut it down fast. That was pre-planned. That meat company is a major donor to the president.

Fowler and Manson were reading off their corporate talking points. I'm sure. I'll fill the team in. You get back to your office. Yvette eyed her flip phone uncomfortably as she closed it, her hands shaking. They knew all their emails were being read, government cell phones and texts no doubt listened to. Hopefully, they hadn't yet caught on to their new burners. She walked briskly to the various offices along the way. The White House called it the Project 2025 Transition. And it was turning Washington upside down. She pictured it as a long, meandering line of dominoes falling all around her, like all the other dominoes in line before her.

She'd be toppled soon enough. There was so much to do. Dr. Hardman, how'd it go? A bright-eyed Michelle Simpkins greeted her as she entered her office. Miraculously, the 29-year-old aide, who'd graduated with a master's in public health from GW the prior year, had not received her HR visit yet. Awful, but about as expected. But they won't be able to deny that we laid it all out, either orally or in writing.

How'd it go for you? All good. And you talked to our friends in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan? Sent them to all the places we talked about. Within the network, some of the most useful allies were health directors and their respective governors in blue states. They maintained large state-level health and agriculture systems and experts and willing to speak out. And they maintained good relations with in-state papers that were less intimidated by the new administration. They said they'll leak it to their largest newspapers by close of business today.

They expect it to hit the websites by 8 and to be on the front page of both newspapers by tomorrow morning. Perfect. Even as she said the words, Yvette's stomach quivered. Leaking information like this was the opposite of the care and confidentiality with which she treated pandemic-related challenges over the years. It defied her instincts of trying to address crises without causing public panic, a real risk here. But what Chip Manson most wanted right now was the silence. America at its press core, being in the dark, allowed the president to steer the federal government into a wildly reckless direction. If nobody on the outside knew the other options, the most dangerous path would be followed for all

the worst reasons. If the White House didn't pursue their recommended course, the press would have a lot of obvious and tough questions to ask. Michelle, you should head out now. Take that laptop with you and don't bring it back in. Maybe best to get rid of it entirely. I'll get you another one. Michelle frowned. Wow, you're that worried. I am. We spoke up today. The culture they're creating doesn't allow for that.

And when this leaks, it will get far worse. Either way, they'll want to blame us. Michelle walked over to the small table, closed the laptop, and placed it in a small black computer bag. Okay, I'll head out now. Good luck. They shared a quick hug and she left. Yvette sat down in the swivel chair at the desk and logged onto the desktop computer. She scrolled through emails that had come in since the morning, more grandiose pronouncements and new protocols from the new CDC leaders. Still, she fired off emails for the next 20 minutes, official-sounding communications to new staff, play-acting the role of a welcoming new boss, onboarding new personnel.

Right before she pushed send on an email, the screen of her monitor went blank, then reset to the logon page. Yvette retyped in her name and password. Era, unknown username and password. She typed it in again. Another error. Then came a knock on her door. She opened it. A young woman, perhaps in her mid-thirties, versus Yvette's forty-eight, smiled awkwardly. She sported a brown ponytail and a shiny new badge on her chest. Human relations. And she held a thick envelope in her hand. Yvette Hardman, director, ZID, printed across the top. The woman's lips turned down into a grim frown. Miss Hardman, I'm afraid this is the day that someone will be replacing you.

She handed her the envelope. The first page walks through the departure protocol, but I can summarize. We have now terminated your access to your government phone and computer. You will need to have your personal items out of here by 3.30 p.m. at the latest. Yvette looked at her watch. It was already 1.15 p.m. This office had been her home for almost four years. Others got until six, is my understanding. That's been our usual process, but we have a dilemma today. Yvette shook her head, biting her lip.

Dilemma? Your successor is raring to go. The woman said, glancing over Yvette's shoulder, clearly taking in the shape of the office. He wants to stop in at 5 p.m. and start moving in. Yvette looked down, squelching her temptation to lament her situation. She took a deep breath, closed her eyes for a few moments, then opened them again. No, there will be no mourning. This visit meant that all the work she'd done in recent weeks had been even more important. God's work.

She now knew. Yvette stood taller, rolled her shoulders back, and cast a big smile back at the HR person. 3.30 it will be. Now when we come back after a short break, we'll meet the man who would replace Dr. Yvette Hardman. He's a man with no qualifications, but who'd be recruited by Trump's Project 2025. Again, we want to inform you that any profits from the advertising in this series will be donated to pro-democracy organizations.

And now, stay tuned after the episode when the author, David Pepper, ties each of the story elements back to specific references in Project 2025 and Trump's own words. Hey, by the way, speaking of Trump's own words, he's repeatedly called for journalists who criticize him to be jailed. So it's not a stretch to see that the editor of our fictional magazine, Capital Monthly, takes steps to somehow discover the other side of the horrific stories that Rose Cunningham has already reported. This editorial change is documented by the new reporter he's assigned to the story, Calvin Stegman. The rest of chapter three tells the story of J.J. Newsom, the kind of guy who'd be recruited by Project 2025 to serve. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back.

In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding

of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to

change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you gotta pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov

brought to you by the U S department of health and human services and the ad council in a second Trump administration. Part two. On Friday, my editor at the Capital Monthly pulled me into his office. He said that some readers and advertisers were complaining about Rose Cunningham's gripping series about how the new administration was impacting real people. I pushed back. It's amazing journalism, I've said. I've admired her work. I have as well, he said. She will keep doing her stories, but we need to add some balance to our coverage. He held up his fingers in quotation marks as he said the word balance.

So he said, I'd be moving from my beat covering Capitol Hill to take on a special assignment. You're going to spend some time in the field, he said. I'd spend the rest of the year depicting how the lives of everyday Americans were impacted by the new regime. Talk to Rose. She has a good nose for stories. Try to tell stories similar to hers, but from the other side. I flinched. What's wrong? Well, what's the other side of her last story? Or the first one? People celebrating the end of IVF? Or an INS agent celebrating protester deportations? He shrugged. Just come up with something. Her story will be the main story,

but yours will be the balance. Be creative. Give the other side's view. And, of course, tell the truth. I shrugged. Sounded absurd. But I also knew the pressure he was under. Crowds were chanting fake news all over America because of stories like Rose's. The president himself was livid. Businesses were being pressured to pull advertising from those who weren't treating the president favorably. A few cameramen had been beaten up at his recent speeches. Rose had received death threats. And because of her stories, the Capital Monthly was clearly on the president's list of fake news.

Okay, I said, I'll do my best. I gave Rose a call. Capital Monthly. J.J. Newsom by Calvin Stegman. Washington, D.C. Welcome to Washington, D.C. When J.J. had traveled to Washington for the first time, it was during the Obama years. He remembered glowering at the storied monuments and government buildings. His blood had boiled knowing that hostile forces occupied those hallowed halls built by real Americans, meant to be led by real Americans.

Then, he could hardly stomach the thought that the nation's capital was in those corrupt hands, the hands of people who used the power of the government to advance dark values that offended every principle he believed in. But today, for the first time in four years, America was America again. A chill of excitement ran down J.J.'s spine. Pride. His heart beat fast. Outside of a fierce temper that could erupt at his worst moments, he had never been an emotional man. But a tear ran down his cheek as they pulled up to the gate.

The past four years had nearly broken him. But this journey would bring that difficult path to an ending he could not have imagined even months before. Movies didn't end as well as his life story was turning out. He told his wife Stella he was going to a conference in Washington. He just left out that the political conference on January 5th would culminate in a rally the next day with the former president. Now, finally finally the president again. Then a march to the Capitol to forcibly stop the vote count. The president had taken America back for real Americans like J.J., but the deep state conspired to topple their leader.

They hyped the COVID pandemic to crush the economy and make his president look incompetent. That and the stolen election were the two final straws that convinced him he had to do something. So J.J. stood back and stood by, just as the president asked. But I think right here we're going to walk down to the Capitol. And when the president urged them all to march up to the Capitol, both in the days leading up to January 6th and again during that fiery speech on the Ellipse, J.J. had charged up that hill with more gusto than he had on any Iraq battlefield years before. The rest of that day was a blur.

But one too many cell phone pics and security cameras had caught him on tape beating a Capitol Hill police officer with his own baton. The videos looked bad. The rage on his face, inflamed eyes snarl across his lips, and they captured all 23 times he'd swung at the cop, and that some of the blows had strayed above his legs. Yes, it looked bad, and the feds quickly tracked him down in Missouri. J.J. tried to tell them that he wasn't trying to kill the young cop, just knocking him down, keeping him from obstructing the rest of the crowd from entering the building. They arrested him anyway.

As guilty as the tapes made him look, he refused to plead guilty or apologize. After all, he'd been standing up for his country against those who would destroy it. But that stubborn recalcitrance got him sentenced to ten years in jail, among the longest sentences of anyone who breached the Capitol that day. While awful for him and his family, the lengthy sentence made him a hero among his fellow patriots. Admiring tweets, texts, and emails flooded in, encouraging him to stand strong. Honey, I'm in the Uber, heading in. His wife Stella remained back in Missouri.

Rural Clay County was most famous for being the home of Jesse James, the namesake J.J. had admired since he was a kid. More because he was a confederate than because he was a bank robber. I miss you already. Stella and their three kids would move to D.C. once school was done and J.J. had found a home. I'm so proud of you, honey. We all are. You have earned all of this. He did a double take as the tinted car window reflected his new look back at him. A close-cropped cut of his sandy blonde hair replaced the more shaggy look that he'd had for years.

He stroked his new goatee, which Stella said made him look more intelligent, more in command. I wouldn't be here without you, JJ said. You were strong throughout it all, far stronger than I've ever been. His emotion suddenly got the best of him again. Tears flowed down his face as he spoke, which he wiped with the left sleeve of the new sport coat Stella had bought last week and left out for him this morning. Honey, you and the kids saved me. I would never have made it this far. He fell silent, remembering. From the moment of his arrest, Stella had understood, even though it had caught her completely off guard. She'd driven or flown to the federal prison, usually alone, leaving the kids with her parents

so many times. She never once questioned his refusal to show remorse or plead guilty. You did the right thing, honey, she said on every visit. You fought for the country, and you stood up like the president asked you to. Someday, somehow, you will be rewarded for this. At those lowest moments where her encouragement was all he had in his life, he'd just stare back at her over the wooden table in the visitor's room, fearful that she'd leave him and that the kids would forget him. But she never did. She assured him she wouldn't let them. The kids are so proud of you. They tell

their friends you're just like Jesse James, willing to fight for the right cause. No words could have lifted him more than those. They kept him going through the hell of that prison, separated from his family. Until the first of two phone calls that changed his life. As the Uber crossed Memorial Bridge with the white marble of the Lincoln Memorial directly in front of him, J.J. remembered that first phone call, late last year. Every word spoken would stick with him for the rest of his life. It was from his brother, Jasper. He too had stormed the Capitol, but was smart enough not to have attacked a cop with cameras rolling. While he'd pled out and served one year for his actions,

he'd been advocating for his brother ever since. They joked that he was Frank James to JJ's Jesse. We just got the call, he'd said over the prison phone, the joy in his voice contrasting with JJ's somber mood. It was the third anniversary of the guilty verdict. Call from? Jesse asked. The transition team, of course. It's a long list. Almost everyone made it, you included. Amnesty? For all of us? You got it, brother. You will be out by the end of the day. Stella's on her way to get you. And that was the first time JJ had cried since he was a kid.

Stella was there by 5 p.m. and he was back in Clay County the next day. He celebrated Christmas with his family two weeks later. But it was the call just after New Year that caught him truly off guard. It was from Blake Fallows, the leader of the group that organized the conference that had led to their storming the Capitol. Blake, too, had been sentenced and pardoned and had kept close ties to the president's people.

JJ, they want you, dude, Blake said. They want you. Who wants me? The president does, and his people. They love that you were willing to take one for the team. No apologies, no remorse. That's fucking loyalty. Willing to give up ten years for the president, for the country. You're a fucking patriot, and they know it. So what do they want me to do? Oh, they got thousands of jobs to fill in this new administration. They want you to take one. They want to make a point to the country.

Taking people like you, the most patriotic of the loyalists, and putting you into the most important jobs out there. Visible ones. It'll send a message. Fuck yeah, JJ said, not having worked since returning home. Watching the bills add up with no way to keep up on Stella's teacher salary. What kind of jobs you talking about? I got a list I can send you.

Some really cool jobs. They said to pick the one you want and they'll make it happen. Only thing is, you need to move fast because they're offering the same to a few others too. Partly because of his temper, J.J. had never been great at steady work. After being discharged from the army, he'd worked his uncle's farm and then he'd signed up for police training, spent time as a village cop, then transferred over to the Clay County Sheriff's Department. Too many complaints led to a transfer to probation, where he served as an officer, but he hated that. So eventually he got a job as staffer in the county's health department, dealing with a wide variety of issues. He never was very good at it, as any look at his file would attest,

but paid the bills, got him out of the office most days, and didn't take a ton of work. So he did it for a number of years, moved his way up to managing three other staffers. When Stella typed up all he'd done on a resume, they were pleased at how good they could make it all look. Veteran, police officer, deputy sheriff, county health official. I'd hire you, Blake joked, even if under the surface, J.J. hadn't done much good since his days in Iraq. And truth be told, he even had a criminal record before January 6th,

something he confessed to Blake. That damn temper getting the best of him every so often. They don't give a shit, J.J. They want you. I'm telling you, you're gonna land something real top-notch. You proved yourself more than almost anyone. And Blake, as usual, had been right. A job with more power than JJ ever could have imagined. Once word came down of his posting,

he'd done his best to study up on all the new things the job required. Some big-name DC organization sent him a ton of background materials, including training videos. Stella had always been the better student, so she hunted down articles online so they could learn even more. His 16-year-old son also pitched in. He read it all. But he had to admit, as he did to Stella a few weeks back,

a lot of what they'd sent him went over his head. The stuff that dealt more with science. He never liked science much, nor was he good at it. The health department job may have sounded like health and science, but was more about dealing with complaints like long grass junkyard. Don't worry, honey. They wouldn't put you there if you weren't up to it. Then she flashed that cat-like, troublemaking smile he loved so much. Fake it till you make it. He laughed out loud. That had always been one of his favorite sayings.

Once in the heart of D.C., J.J. soaked it all in. They drove around the Lincoln Memorial, up the mall, past the World War II Memorial. They passed the Ellipse, the place where they'd launched their charge to the Capitol, which had led to prison. It looked so bland now, compared to when the president had fired them all up with that patriotic speech. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. A rush of adrenaline pulsed through him even now. Estella assured him over all those years, his actions that day would someday be rewarded. Today was that day. He nodded, satisfied, like a veteran observing a battlefield where he'd earned glory years before.

Minutes later, the Uber stopped. Here you go, sir. You here to take one of the new jobs? Sure am, J.J. said proudly. Oh, I've met so many of you lately. We're gonna save our country. The driver eyed J.J JJ through the rearview mirror. The two made eye contact for a split second, but the driver said nothing. No surprise, JJ thought. The guy had some kind of accent you'd never hear back in Clay County.

JJ stepped out of the car and walked into the impressive modern building before him. He stared up at the sign at the entrance, took out his camera, snapped a selfie. From Clay County to Washington, D.C., he texted Stella. We did it. We sure did, she texted back right away. You did it. It was 4.59 p.m. He'd never been punctual in past jobs, often cutting corners on both ends of the workday. But now that he'd be in charge, he wanted to send a message from the first day he showed up. The boss has to set the tone. As the elevator door slid open, he stood straight, lifting his shoulders up and puffing his chest

out. He'd worked out all through prison and since returning home. Staying fit was another important trait he planned to emphasize. He would again lead by example. A young pretty blonde with a badge that said human relations on it greeted him. In her hand was an envelope. The words J.J. Newsome Director Z.I.D. appeared across the top. Zid? He did a double take. Then he figured out it was the acronym for his new department, Zoologic Infectious Diseases. He hadn't seen it presented that way before.

She greeted him with a big smile, handing him the thick envelope as she spoke. Welcome, Director Newsome. Right on time. I trust that's the norm around here, he said seriously. Fake it till you make it, Estella said. I'm sure it will be now. Already an improvement. They walked down two long corridors, a number of staff members watching him stroll past through open doors. We are so excited to have you starting today. Some are so excited they waited to say hello. Not only did these folks look happy to see him, some looked familiar to him.

Clearly from the list Blake had sent to the White House and from the group that had gathered on January 5th, which they'd now disbanded. Who needed an outside group when you're on the inside? They were better dressed than the last time he saw them. Clean-shaven, too. Several reached out to shake his hand as he walked by. Excited to have you here, sir, one heavyset man said in a deep voice. Damn proud to work for a patriot like you. Thank you, J.J. said. We'll get this place turned around fast. No one had ever talked to him that way back in Clay County, even when he'd

managed three health workers. Now, J.J. felt like a general inspecting his troops. Fake it till you make it. Stella was right. It was working. J.J. lengthened his stride, feeling more confident already. At the end of the hallway, they reached a wooden door with a nameplate on the side. Jesse J. Newsome, Director. Director? The young woman waved a card past a keypad just under the nameplate. After a click and the quick flash of a green light, she pushed the door open. Here you go. She said as they walked in, then turned the lights on.

His eyes opened wide as he scanned around. He bit down on the smile that was forming. It was a bigger, fancier office than any he'd seen in all of Clay County. Bigger than the Commissioner's. A corner one, too, with large windows on one side. He'd never had windows before. Or a view. The young woman winced at him, almost apologetically. Dr. Hardman didn't

clear out until 3.30, but we worked hard to clean it up for you. He nodded his approval. It'll do just fine. He sat down behind the gleaming desk. He leaned back, swiveled the chair around, and lifted his legs onto the desk. Angling his phone just right, he took a selfie that captured both the wide grin on his face and the new leather boots resting on the desktop. Boots Stella had bought him to celebrate the new job, their new life. He laughed out loud at the photo

and then sent it to Stella with a short text. Made it. Now, while the stories in this episode are over, we're not done with Trump's Project 2025. In a moment, the author, David Pepper, will tie the specific policies in Project 2025 and Trump's own words that'll lead to this tragic loss of expertise in our government. But first, the next episode of Trump's Project 2025, Up Close and Personal, predicts the disaster facing American children and their parents when Trump's repeated promise to defund schools with vaccine mandates

goes into effect in a second term. Donald Trump has promised over and over that any school with a vaccine mandate will get no federal funds. In this, Trump is completely aligned with Project 2025, which would also prohibit vaccine mandates in public schools. In the next episode of Trump's Project 2025, Up Close and Personal, the story of how a Denver school nurse, Stephanie Morris, would have to deal with parents who refuse to vaccinate their children. Can I ask you what you know about measles and the vaccine? Steph would ask, mentioning a disease she thought parents would want to hear about.

Oh, don't start with me, lady. One father said, slumping back in his chair. Is this the part where you try to convince us to stick our kids with your poison? Move on, ma'am. We're not here for a lecture from you. Our president said we could come here without vaccines, and that's what we're doing. A few plunged down the rabbit hole of anti-vaccination propaganda they'd been fed somewhere. Steph listened politely to a wide variety of wild theories, maintaining a poker face as they went on. Nothing was going to change their minds.

For those that didn't push back on her short measles explanation, she'd proceed to other maladies. But parents' patience ran out within minutes. Listen, we are not going to do vaccines. Never have, never will. You're wasting your breath and our time. Another leaned forward. Is this really part of your job, getting into our private business? We know what's best for our son, and it's not injecting him with those drugs. We're about freedom.

While this podcast is fictional, outbreaks of measles and other diseases are already happening in school districts where vaccination levels are low. The situation would only get more dangerous in a second Trump term guided by Project 2025. You can listen to Trump's Project 2025 up close and personal on all the podcast apps and at 2025pod.com. So we ask you again to please subscribe, review, and most importantly, share the podcast with all of your friends and relatives who need to know just how dangerous a second Trump term and Project 2025 would be. Of course, this may not convince Trump voters to change their minds, but it could motivate people who've not yet decided how to vote. And those are the people who could make the difference on November 5. So author David Pepper lays out the connections between our stories and the very real Project 2025.

I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA, Liz Karamush.

What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early andio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple

Podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tetherpapersilling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.

Again, while this story is fiction, we want to remind you it's based on actual policies in Project 2025 and on Trump's own words. Here is author David Pepper with the specific references to both. Chapter 3, Author's Note by David Pepper. Both Trump and Project 2025 are crystal clear that the first move of the right-wing takeover of American government would be the displacement of tens of thousands of nonpartisan civil servants with political and personal loyalists. And they're equally clear that displacing science and scientists is a central

theme of that agenda. Project 2025's opening pages explain that its overall success requires a, quote, trained and committed cadre of personnel to implement, end quote, the overall plan. That's on page 13 of the introduction. Quote, our goal is to assemble an army of aligned, vetted, trained, and prepared conservatives to go to work on day one to deconstruct the administrative state, end quote. That's on page 14. And the first chapter of Project 2025, called Taking the Reins of Government, focuses on how, quote, the new administration must fill its ranks with political appointees. Empowering political appointees across the administration is crucial to a president's success, end quote, page 20. Another quote, political appointees who are answerable to the president and have decision-making authority in the executive branch are key to this essential task. The next administration must not cede such authority to nonpartisan, quote, experts, end quote, who pursue their own ends while engaging in group

think insulated from American voters, end quote. The plan continues on page 82. Any new administration would be wise to learn that it will need a full cadre of sound political appointees from the beginning if it expects to direct this enormous federal bureaucracy, end quote. But the plan's authors don't just propose all this. They're already working on it. to recruit and train political loyalists to enter the new government through what they call the Presidential Administration Academy, an online educational system taught by what they call experts from their coalition. For the newcomer, they say, this will explain how the government functions and how to function in government, end quote. Their goal is to recruit at least 20,000 new foot soldiers, as they call them. They're even airing a recruiting

video which instructs their recruits, quote, it's your job to ensure that the power is executed in line with the president's will, end quote. With this new army of political foot soldiers in place, Project 2025 and its backers don't mince words about what their goal is. It's to, quote, bend or break the bureaucracy to the presidential will. How? Well, J.D. Vance himself says it. As he said a few years back, he thinks they should, quote, fire every civil servant in the administrative state, end quote. In everyday speak, that means getting rid of experts and scientists who are in the government because of their expertise and not there because of politics or loyalty. Trust in these employees is the problem, according to Project 2025.

As they write on page 83, quote, the progressive ideology that unelected experts can and should be trusted to promote the general welfare is in just about every area of social life. That's the thing they have a problem with. So Project 2025 aims to end this approach and destroy the ideology, as they call it. Quote, a conservative president must move swiftly to do away with these vast abuses of presidential power and remove the career and political bureaucrats who fuel it, they write on page eight. On page nine, the president must, quote, bring the administrative state to heel and in the process defang and defund the woke culture warriors who have infiltrated every last institution in America, end quote. Same page, Project 25, quote, lays out how to use many of these tools, including how to fire supposedly unfireable

federal bureaucrats. So how are they going to do this? What specific vehicle are they talking about? They call it Schedule F, and this is where the administration is, quote, to prepare lists of such confidential policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating positions and prepare procedures to create exceptions from civil service rules when careerists hold such positions. That's on page 80 again. So this is the way that they'll fire people who in the past could not be fired from these positions to ultimately replace them by

their loyalists. By the way, Trump tried this toward the end of his presidency. He actually, in 2020, put this into place, but Biden won and rescinded the order before it could take effect. So one thing you should pay attention to, whenever Trump tries to deny that Project 2025 somehow has anything to do with him, as in this example, often what Project 2025 is saying to do is actually do what he already had once, but that Biden rescinded. This is an example of that. Again, Trump tried to do this as president. He put into place, but it was too late. Biden rescinded it. So in this case, Project 2025 is simply trying to redo something that he already tried once. It's directly tied to him. When he tries to run away from Project 2025, it's yet another lie.

Currently, there are around 4,000 political appointees in the federal government. Project 2025 aims to bring that number to at least 50,000. But as one article states, this is, quote, probably a floor rather than a ceiling, which will ultimately be determined by a highly politicized leadership that might want a clean house. They are stating, as another article says, they are stating unequivocally that federal employees must give their loyalty to the president and that he or she should be able to remove anyone insufficiently devoted to the cause. Now, this chapter focused a lot on science. And amid this overall politicization of the federal workforce, both Project 2025 and Trump himself have made clear that they are targeting scientists, health experts, and yes, even the pandemic prevention experts

that Chapter 3 dealt with. The CDC, Project 2025 explains on page 452, is, quote, perhaps the most incompetent and arrogant agency in the federal government, end quote, should be split into two separate entities, end quote. Project 2025 mandates the CDC should go beyond health risk assessments in its recommendations into some type of quasi-religious balancing of interests. Here's what the plan says on page 453. Brace yourselves. It's really over the top. Quote, for example, how much risk mitigation is worth the price of shutting down churches on the holiest day of the Christian calendar and far beyond has happened in 2020? What is the proper balance of lives saved versus souls saved? So they literally

want the CDC to weigh religious interests against health interests. Next, and the CDC should not make recommendations, according to Project 2025, on how Americans can keep themselves healthy and safe. Quote, by statute or regulation, CDC guidance must be prohibited from taking on a prescriptive character. For example, never again should CDC officials, this is a quote from Project 2025, never again should CDC officials be allowed to say in their official capacity that school children should be masked or vaccinated or prohibited from learning in a school building. Such decisions should be left to parents and medical providers. We have learned that when the CDC says what people should do, it readily becomes a quote must end quote backed by severe punishments, including

criminal penalties. CDC should report on the risks and effectiveness of infectious disease mitigation measures dispassionately and leave the should and must policy calls to politically accountable parties. That's all on page 454. So you're hearing that right. The CDC should no longer make recommendations. We should leave it in this case to Donald Trump to make those recommendations, and the experts shouldn't tell us what they think makes sense to be healthy or safe. Obviously, that makes no sense at all. How's that sound in the midst of a pandemic, by the way? Project 2025 also shows open hostility to science and prevention when it comes to health and human services, including no longer enforcing

the COVID-19 vaccination mandate on Medicaid and Medicare hospitals. That's on page 475. Chapter 3 emphasized the importance of agricultural scientists in pandemic prevention. In his first term, Trump decimated those very aspects of the Department of Agriculture, proposing to slash them, then shipping them far from Washington. As one expert explained, the impact was devastating. Quote, the agencies have been decimated. Their ability to perform the function they were created to perform, it doesn't exist anymore. This was part of the broader trend of, quote, a hostility in the Trump administration towards science. And if you were a federal employee in a science agency, that was the double whammy. Food and farming research took a major hit over the Trump years, and unwinding that damage means restoring decimated agencies and mistreated employees. Finally, Trump has

already announced that he will, quote, disband the Office of Pandemic Preparedness and Response Policy. What has that office been dealing with most recently? Just as Chapter 3 discussed, quote, the office most recently responded to an outbreak of bird flu in dairy farms, coordinating with the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, to ensure milk remains safe to drink and working with farmers to contain the virus, end quote. Bottom line, they are dead serious about replacing experts and scientists with loyalists. They are already doing so, and they are particularly targeting scientists, including those who would help keep us safe from the risks of pandemic. Folks, do not let these

people get in power to do what they've planned through Schedule F in attacking scientists. And a reminder, Trump's Project 2025, up close and personal, is available on all the podcast apps and at 2025pod.com. Now, we'd like to thank all the artists who volunteered their time to produce this episode. CCH Pounder, Richard Schiff, and Jason Kravitz, who read the chapters, and Omid Abtai, Tom Nichols, Laurie Burke, and Joanne Carducci, who did the voices. Sound design by Marilis Ernst and John Mosier. Trump's Project 2025 Up Close and Personal was written by David Pepper and produced by Pepper, Melissa Jo Peltier, and Jay Feldman, and is a production of Ovington Avenue Productions and the Bill Press Pod. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree.

It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at taylorpapersceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportun barriers at tetherpapersilling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future

where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.

Yes, sir. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.