#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Trump's Project 2025: Up Close and Personal Chapter 5 : The Department of Retribution.

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

In Chapter 5 of Trump's Project 2025: Up Close and Personal, Part one, the fictional characters Congresswoman Louise Getty and Senator Wade Stiller, former rivals, meet at the World War II Memorial in Washington D.C. They reflect on their pasts and express concern over a hostile political climate under Trump’s second term, feeling fear and paranoia about being surveilled and targeted by the government. Their conversation reveals a sense of vulnerability as they confront the reality that many of their colleagues have abandoned principles out of fear. Louise recalls the intense political maneuvering and betrayals leading up to and following the January 6 insurrection.  In Part Two, Woody Nuxhall, the newly appointed head of the Treason and Political Crime Section of the DOJ, oversees his zealous young team of prosecutors, eager to pursue investigations and vendettas against political enemies. The group discusses tactics to surveil and undermine former colleagues and opposition figures, planning a strategy fueled by partisan loyalty and vengeance, while embracing a radical transformation of the DOJ's role in politics. The narrative emphasizes the deeply entrenched fear and moral compromise within Washington's political landscape, contrasting the idealistic memories of past sacrifices with the present-day weaponization of governmental power. Overall, the story highlights the erosion of democratic norms, and the personal toll this environment takes on the individuals involved. While these stories are fictional, they are based on Trump's own words and Project 2025. In fact, the New York Times, just last week reported just how Trump would use the Justice Department to go after his enemies. We’d like to thank the artists who contributed their time to make this episode:Richard Schiff and Morgan Fairchild read the chapters and others who contributed character voices. Sound Design by Marilys Ernst and Jon Moser.Trump's Project 2025: Up Close and Personal was written by David Pepper and Produced by Pepper, Melissa Jo Peltier and Jay Feldman and is a production of Ovington Avenue Productions and The Bill Press Pod.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers,

but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated on the get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios.

Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, good friends. I'm Bill Press, host of the Bill Press Pod. And this is Chapter 5 of our special podcast series, Trump's Project 2025 Up Close and Personal.

The Department of Retribution. First, we like to start with a word not in Donald Trump's vocabulary, and that word is share. It's important for us to share this podcast series with enough people because by doing so, we could actually change the course of this election. How? By helping make clear the dangers of a second Trump term to those occasional voters not yet motivated to actually vote this year. And that's why we're doing this podcast series about Project 2025 in the first place. Right now, this campaign could come down to engaging so-called occasional voters, those who not yet decided how to vote or whether to vote at all. Just a few thousand of those occasional voters in each swing state could determine the outcome of this election. That's how important

it is to share this podcast series. Two great actors and activists, Morgan Fairchild and Richard Schiff, have donated their talents to help spread the word by participating in this podcast. We welcome back our regular listeners, but if this is your first episode, don't worry about having to go back to the beginning, as each episode is self-contained. But if you care to look back, you'll find the first four chapters in your podcast app. And we remind you that while the people and stories in this series are fictional, the policies that bring chaos and tragedy to each of their lives and to the entire country are all too real. These situations are drawn directly from the pages of Project 2025 and Trump's own words and promises. Here's just one promise, for example, as documented in this report by Vaughn Hilliard for the NBC Nightly News. Former President Trump vowing to totally reshape the Justice Department

and target political opponents. We will completely overhaul Kamala's corrupt Department of Injustice. He recently reposted doctored images of top Democrats, along with Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates in orange jumpsuits with the caption, how to actually fix the system. And in Trump's new book, alleging Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will try to unlawfully influence the 2024 election, writing, if he does anything illegal this time, he will spend the rest of his life in prison. Just this weekend, Trump promising possible retribution against 2024 election administrators, writing, lawyers, political operatives, donors, illegal voters, and corrupt election officials, those involved in unscrupulous behavior, will be sought out, caught, and prosecuted at levels

unfortunately never seen before in our country. To fulfill his promise of revenge, Trump and Project 2025 would gut the Department of Justice of its career employees, you know, those who've worked for both Republican and Democratic presidents, and replace them with political hacks loyal only to Donald Trump,

not loyal to the Constitution. To understand what happens when they turn the Department of Justice into the Department of Retribution, our story begins with a former congresswoman and a senator facing the reality of a second Trump turn. Morgan Fairchild tells their story. Capitol Monthly Louise Getty by Rose Cunningham Washington, D.C. It's funny.

All these years we fly in and out of here, shuttled around like big shots. It's easy to forget what a beautiful town it is. The splash of nearby fountains echoed in their ears as the May sun pierced the blowing spray. Miniature rainbows sparkled before their eyes. The long-ago foes had met at the base of the Lincoln Memorial and ambled the length of the reflecting pool. Now they were circling the outside of the World War II Memorial, taking in the white granite pillars that were each adorned with a gold wreath and the name of the state.

As they walked past Arizona, New Mexico, and Oklahoma, a group of honor flight veterans, mostly in wheelchairs, ambled around the memorial's oval center. It's so true, Wade, former House member Louise Getty said, stopping below the pillar of Utah, her home state. Last year, when I had the stomach for it, I flew my grandkids here for a week. We did the whole tour. Seeing it all through children's eyes was magical.

Like a whole new city. A giant outdoor museum. Expressing all the hopes and dreams of a great nation. Illinois Senator Wade Stiller shook his head. Sheesh, and I'm still stuck in law firms and lobbyist shops up and down K Street. Well, it's still better than the Capitol itself these days. True. Maybe the worst of all. Louise turned to look at him.

Correction. The second worst. Both their grins faded as reality returned with a vengeance. The former House member from Utah and the current Illinois Senator had caught up on family, old friends, and the good old days. When as junior members of the House Oversight Committee, they'd bicker away on debates that felt so small now. Meaningless divides in hindsight. But that brief respite of small talk ended abruptly at Louise's reference to the White House. They were meeting now for the first time in two years, because for the first time in their careers, these two giants of American politics were frightened. Visibly frightened. In the mirror and through her husband's eyes, Louise Getty could observe the non-stop paranoia

and fear eating away at her. Her hair was now almost fully gray, always thin. she'd still lost 15 pounds in six months. Never-ending nausea ruined her appetite, and she'd felt on edge all the time, snapping at the man who'd stood loyally at her side for 40 years. Her three kids gently suggested she seek counseling. Her first appointment was back in Provo next week. Senator Stiller looked even worse. Ten years younger than she was, the most eloquent man in Washington was a pale, gaunt version of his old self.

He used to carry his stately 6'2 frame ramrod straight. Now he hunched. The inner corners of his eyes were a pinkish red, and his hair was both thinner and grayer than the last time they'd seen each other. That was two and a half years ago. After the GOP primary voters of her Utah district tossed her for being a traitor. Most prominently, though, the senator's hands tremored. He kept putting them in his pocket to hide it, but he spoke with his hands.

Every time they came out, she noticed. The two were both such strong figures. Neither wanted to speak first following Louise's comment. Because this meeting was a joint admission of weakness. And you don't ever want to acknowledge weakness in Washington, let alone fear. But fear they felt from one certainty, that they weren't just on the president's list, as it was loosely referred to in the Beltway, but they were as high on that list

as any two people in the United States. And as events playing out in real time made clear, anyone on the list was in the crosshairs of a fully weaponized federal government. Wait, it's clear I'm being followed. We assumed it was coming. We waited and watched. And then in mid-February, they started showing up. Creepy cars down the street, creepy men in public places. If we weren't looking, we wouldn't have noticed. But it was obvious.

The senator nodded. Trust me, Amy and I saw it too in our private space, but also in both my D.C. office and the district offices back in Illinois. They began walking again. They're all over our phones, probably our computers, a couple new interns, and our office are clearly plants. They stick out like sore thumbs, so we're careful. We also don't want to let on that we know. Over the years, Louise and the senator had both received numerous

classified briefings by FBI leadership. More than almost anyone in America, they understood the tactics and technologies and toys that were used in sting operations. Ironically, they knew at least as much as the political henchmen suddenly in charge of those agencies. Louise laughed. That's the problem with tossing everyone out. This new crew may be partisan and dangerous, but they're sloppy. They passed Texas. Stiller shook his head.

Subtle, too. The treason and political crime section, Orwell himself would have blushed at the name. Ha! Louise cringed. Word had it that the new section, led by one of the phony electors from Arizona, would be the instrument of the president's political payback. They stopped in front of Stiller's, Illinois. Several bouquets of fresh flowers lay at their feet. Land of Lincoln, Louise said, looking up at the pillar,

and then over at Stiller. The president, whose stark portrait sat behind her office desk from her first day in the Utah Statehouse to her last day in Congress, her constant reminder to always be true to herself, despite the daily pressures to do the opposite. The senator looked down at the flowers and then out at the veterans. Some were listening to a guide, others were just admiring the memorial that honored their service. Amazing what so many sacrificed for this country only to leave us where we are now. We tried, Wade. We did all we could. Just needed more of us. Louise thought back to the thousands of hours that all put in, digging up every text and floor plan and email proving just how aggressively the president had worked to undo an election

he knew he'd lost. We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved. USA! USA! How he'd frozen out top staff members who'd try to stop him, pressured officials here and across the country, and unleashed thousands of stormtroopers to disrupt the vote count on that cold January day, all to effectuate the plan. By mid-December 2020, Louise had known her colleagues were up to something. The worst of her colleagues, at least. Whispers in the hallways. Meetings and even tours without a place outside groups.

Multiple visits to the White House, which they couldn't help but brag about. She'd laughed at the absurdity of those eager beavers in on a top-secret plan, but wanting people to know they were in on it. A few years back, these House members had been annoying little gnats that she and other longtime Republican leaders ignored as irrelevant. But gerrymandering had swelled their numbers, and the president had empowered them, so by December 2020, they were running the place. Still, she was shocked that these lemmings and bozos came so close to success on January 6th, with an armed mob roaming the halls of the Capitol, hunting to find her, the vice president, and anyone else they could get their hands on, and to do God knows what if they'd found them. They reached the Tennessee Pillar.

Louise herself had sat in on most of the special committee's depositions, hours and hours of them. At first, she thought it would be awkward cross-examining fellow Republicans she'd known and worked with for years. But once the depositions started, it wasn't awkward at all. From what they said and did, it became clear she didn't know these people anymore. Lawless traitors willing to trade what made America great for one man's unhinged and corrupt ambition, which made the depositions easy. Hammering away to root out and compile every detail of their conspiracy,

of their historic crime, seizing American power illegally. And even though she'd never been a talker in committees, the panel's public hearings proved just as easy, methodically exposing the narrative of precisely what they'd done. understand and believe. And equally importantly, so that the DOJ would finally wake up and do its job of holding them all accountable, up to the President of the United States. And it worked. But by the end, any American listening understood the traitor's plot. And the DOJ did step up. Just not early enough to matter. When too many of the chief insurrectionist judicial appointees used their power to slow things down. We did the right thing, Wade. You did.

I did. We all did. And we came so damn close to succeeding, too. Damn close. They passed New Jersey. The senator had been a senior member of the House then. His crowning act would be leading the second impeachment trial, the one that followed January 6th. Louise had watched every moment of it in awe.

The entire committee was impressive, but it was Stiller's moment to show the country his towering strength and skill, and he did. In her estimation, one of the finest minds and orators ever to grace the halls of Congress. Should we walk up to the monument? Louise asked. After you. As they reached one side of the street that lay between them and the path up to the Washington Monument, the crosswalk light turned red. A few tourists scrambled across, but the two stopped to wait. And that's when Louise noticed him. A young man in his early thirties, khakis and sport coat, sunglasses on, walking behind them.

Their sudden stop threw the man off, so he halted 15 feet to their rear. Suddenly still, all by himself, trying to look casual but failing. She'd noticed the same man ambling around the memorial, too. A chill ran down her spine. As much as she was being followed lately, she still couldn't get used to it. Senator, we're being tailed, she whispered. I have no doubt. Just keep walking and talking. It's still better than being on a phone. They waited ten more seconds, then crossed the street without saying a word.

The senator was trying to play it off, hands deep in his pockets, but his lips were trembling. This is why they were both aging so fast, as powerful as they had always been. They were now completely vulnerable. A total loss of privacy and control. Hounded by federally deputized ideologues, somehow the youthfulness of their tormentors made it worse. Government henchmen younger than their kids. As they stepped onto the path leading up to the monument, the senator cleared his throat. What's amazing is that early on in my term, I got to know a lot of these senators.

Of course, the new breed are all in, just as militant as he is and willing to say or do anything to get ahead. But the several dozen Republican old-timers left are as horrified as we are. They tell me if they could do it all over again, they would have impeached him when we called for it. They could have ended the nightmare, and they know it. Louise shook her head. None of them talk to me. I'm too toxic now.

Do they say why they didn't do it when they had the chance? Trust me, they keep their distance from me now as well They know I'm on the list Still, in an honest moment, they admit they were afraid Of losing their next election Of being excommunicated from the entire world they know Cut off from the money that'll come their way if they stay in line Afraid of even one death threat becoming real Plus, why impeach someone with all the hell that would rain down on them Who was never going to run again? that'll come their way if they stay in line, afraid of even one death threat becoming real.

Plus, why impeach someone with all the hell that would rain down on them who was never going to run again? I mean, the guy lost by 7 million votes. They just assumed he'd fade away like anyone else would. I think that drove the old DOJ, too. When politicians lose, especially that big, they leave the scene, so why bother looking political with investigations when he was going to disappear anyway? Behind the scenes, Shid yelled at the Attorney General's liaison about the urgency of upholding the rule of law before the next campaign cycle began. If you wait, Shid warned them, you'll give the man an incentive to run again and do whatever it would take to win.

Which is exactly what happened. Makes me sick to think about it. This guy doesn't go away, especially when he knew the only way to avoid being locked up himself was to grab the reins of government back. And now he has, Louise thought without saying the words. And now, look at us. Over her shoulder, she could see the tail 20 feet behind them.

Too far to hear their muted voices, but she whispered anyway. What are the others saying? Why, we met the other night. Both impeachment committee in Jeb's basement in Maryland. Jeb Mitchell had retired from Congress in 2022. And all but two of us were certain we were being followed and bugged and hacked. Either way, we know we're all on the list. And how are they holding up?

They're putting on the bravest faces they can. Then he grinned. No offense. Most look like you and I do about right now. Frazzled. Scared. We all know we've done nothing wrong, but we also know that doesn't matter with today's DOJ. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding,

but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Dr Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two

of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of

star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne.

We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need

to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early

and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you've got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself.

Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's that occasion. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. FBI and court system. Louise Grimist. She'd had a similar meeting in Northern Virginia after flying in two days ago. Her former committee members also reported being surveilled. The younger ones are melting down. They have kids the age of my grandkids.

They agreed to do this to serve their country, to stand up for the rule of law. And now they see what's happening to those abortion protesters and doctors, the groups who organize the deportation marches, the former CDC officials being perp walked to courthouses like common criminals. And they're all hearing that charges will drop in Georgia and New York any day now. So they know they're next. That their kids will watch mom and dad charged as criminals. And, Louise knew, they were right. It's just awful.

Were you able to book them up? I did my best. I explained that there are major supporters who've stepped up to pay for the legal work to protect them, and I had lawyers walk through the wall of strong defenses they will offer. And? It bought me about ten minutes. Yeah. That's about how my talk went as well.

They both looked down, holding their hands behind their backs as they reached the top of the path and the base of the monument. The Louise looked around, taking a deep breath. The flags encircling the monument's base, flapping loudly in the breeze. Kids were running back and forth, pointing up at the flags at the top of the obelisk. A plane landed over the Lincoln Memorial. The softball season was underway, players shouting amidst the occasional crack as bats collided with softballs.

All seemed normal. For a moment, like those precious few days Louise had spent with the grandkids, soaking in every grand symbol and celebration of American democracy the town had to offer. Lincoln and Jefferson, FDR and MLK. Telling her grandkids the stories of what each of these patriots was about. What America was all about. For that brief moment, all felt fine. She even forgot that Senator Stiller was standing next to her. Then she turned to the White House and gasped. There he was again, the tail. He was standing on the other side of the monument, right in her line of sight. But he was no longer alone.

Sidled up next to him was a middle-aged woman, shoulder-length brown hair, dressed more casually. She looked like a tourist. Louise recalled her from the beginning of their walk at the base of the Lincoln Memorial and later standing right beside them at the crosswalk. It had two tails, but it only kept their eyes on one. And right then, it dawned on her that these people weren't sloppy. They just didn't care if she and the senator knew. After a short break, we'll be back with part two of chapter five, which tells a story from a different perspective. How the newly appointed head of the treason and political crime section of DOJ, oversees his zealous young team

of prosecutors eager to pursue investigations and vendettas against Trump's political enemies. Later in the podcast, author David Pepper ties each of the story elements you just heard back to specific references in Project 2025 and Trump's own words and dangerous promises. Now, of course, all of us West Wing fans remember the actor who played Toby, Richard Schiff. He joins us now to narrate the second part of the Department of Retribution with a look inside a Department of Justice newly staffed by recruits provided to a second Trump administration by the Heritage Foundation in Project 2025. Capital Monthly, Woody Nuxall, by Calvin Stegman. Washington, D.C.

Howdy, fellas. Woody Nuxall strode into the conference room for a Monday morning's meeting, slamming the thick cherry door behind him harder than he meant to. The adrenaline coursing through him matched the rush of sitting in a tree stand on a crisp Montana morning. These weekly meetings, when his young guns came together, were the best part of his new dream job. Director of the Treason and Political Crime Section of the Department of Justice. As he asked his friends back in Arizona, what could be more fun than that? Your dad would be so proud of you,

but it sure is a mouthful, his old boss back in Prescott, Arizona had said when Woody shared the news of his appointment in late January. Yeah, but almost every word means one thing, Woody replied. What's that? Power. Just over three months later, having relocated his wife and five kids from Barry Goldwater's hometown to the nation's capital, Woody was still amazed by just how much power. Sure, he'd been a right-wing sensation as a state senator, going viral in his white pinch-front cowboy hat and bolo tie as he led the charge to undo the bogus 2020 Arizona election. Near weekly rounds on far-right television, radio and podcasts, social media likes and shares, soundbites, memes and clips, his rise culminated in regular calls from the president, checking in on Arizona,

and a convention speech on the third afternoon in Milwaukee, which had earned a rousing ovation and sparked chatter of a Senate run. But in the end, it was still all talk. This job was real power. First, because the president himself had empowered him with a bold and wide mandate. And second, because Woody had assembled a team of all-stars to get it done. Let's get started, he said, staying on his feet, as always. His 10-member team sat five on a side of the thick rectangular oak table in front of him. But as they turned his way, they weren't just looking up at their boss. Behind him, high on the wall, was the head of a huge black bear he'd killed a few years back in Wyoming, along with the

Springfield rifle he'd used to shoot at the dead. His team's reminder, they too were hunting trophies. The Young Guns, he'd called them, the first time they'd sat together in late February. All were in their mid and early 30s, the best young prosecutors America had to offer. He'd want them young and from the outside, outside both the federal government and the Ivy League corridor, to ensure that they weren't already corrupted by the old ways of thinking. Institutionalists, as the hacks and bureaucrats they'd replaced pathetically called themselves, like a fucking religion or cult to a bloodless bureaucracy. As if so-called independence was more important than executing the demands of the most powerful man in the world.

Helpfully, the transition had started months before the election and thousands had sent in applications. Even before flying to D.C., Woody had sifted through resumes from across the country, along with references from party and political leaders. But he didn't stop with the initial trove. He also reached out to fellow partisan warriors around the nation, soliciting recommendations for the best and brightest badasses. Once he found his top 100, he arranged one-on-one Zoom interviews to determine three things. Were they smart enough? Were they sufficiently dedicated to the president's

political success? Were they warriors and brawlers willing to push any envelope? The moment a candidate fell short of any of these standards, he'd end the call, sometimes just minutes in, no reason to waste time. From the initial crop of 100, he'd invited 40 to DC for a grueling interview process. He called it the boardroom, 10 at a time, two hours each, cage matches of testosterone and brain power and ideology, forcing the finalists to go toe-to-toe with one another on scenarios and debates and challenges, all as he observed. Some turned into shouting matches. A few nearly broke out into actual fights. Who were the toughest? Who would go the farthest? Who dominated?

From those grueling hours, Woody narrowed down to his ten young guns. The ten smartest, cockiest, most loyal, most politicized, and most right-wing prosecutors. Within a day, all ten enlisted. The first ten, Assistant United States Attorneys General in the DOJ's new Treason and Political Crime Section. Pioneers, he called them. All ten now sat before him to review their first round of cases, staring up at his hat, bolo, and brown sport coat, and, of course, at the bear and rifle looming behind him. Who's first?

Six hands flew up, a hunger that confirmed the boardroom had achieved its goal. He took note of those who didn't raise their hands. Hey, cowboy, start us off. He pointed at the first AUSA on his right as he began pacing back and forth. Yes, sir. From just two words, it was clear Reggie Gibbs hailed from Texas, and his buzz cut, leathery skin, and hawk nose struck an imposing impression. The combination was why Woody handed him one of the plum assignments, state-level traders. We're all over New York and Georgia cases, sir,

and getting started on the Michigan and Arizona ones as well. Getting started? Yes, sir. New York and Georgia got way down the line against the president last year. Did real damage. Taking them down first will send a crystal clear message. So we're putting more resources there first. Woody nodded.

It was the right move. And he was willing to put aside his own quest for payback for being charged as a fake elector in Arizona. Those elector trials had never gotten out of the gate, while the prosecutors in New York and Georgia had wreaked far more havoc, gotten famous for it too, which meant the splash of going after them would be far greater. Plus, this was about the president,

and the man absolutely despised the impression left by those two prosecutors attacking him? We've had surveillance on the ground for a month. In both cases, we got taps on the judicial chambers, the prosecutors' offices, and their homes. We're going to get their cells. And we got sources on the inside tracking down whatever documents they can. And who are you tapping, exactly? The judge, that daughter of his, two prosecutors, Georgia

Secretary of State too, given all that he did. Getting a ton of good stuff already. They are running scared. We found enough politics in their chatter to show this was never about the so-called crimes. Woody looked across the table at the only guy older than he was. I assume you're okay with all of this, he asked, winking. 46-year-old Emmett Sands was the only previous DOJ lawyer in the group, the only guy who'd worked in D.C. for longer than an internship, the only guy with an Ivy League degree. Emmett Sands was instrumental to the team, an old appellate guru who'd clerked for the conservative Supreme Court justice who'd authored many of the opinions that liberated them to do what they were now doing. Emmett had also served as the deputy solicitor general during the president's first term,

writing many of the briefs that led to the most helpful decisions. Add it all up, and no one in the nation knew the law of politics better without having to look a thing up. Even better, no one understood the outer boundaries of the open lawfare they were waging and what the court would allow them to do. It's 100% okay. Emmett had explained the basics at their first meeting. Fortified by an aggressive president, new rules freeing DOJ up to be as political as they wanted, and recent Supreme Court rulings, the young gods could pretty much do what they wanted.

All those clowns in New York and Georgia were acting for purely political reasons. He was a candidate for the presidency, for God's sake. And they were attacking him for things he did as president before. He has every right to pursue them now as part of the official duties of his office. Which means, under the new DOJ operating rules, we do as well. Our new counterparts see it the same way. It helped that the president had revolutionized the FBI as well. Our new counterparts see it the same way. It helped that the president had revolutionized the FBI as well. Just like with Woody's new unit, Loyalists Replacing Institutionalists,

their partnership in investigating political crimes was off to a smooth start. Pacing to his right, Woody turned back to his Texas star. You have a timeline, cowboy? Yes, sir. We'll have this in front of federal grand juries in New York and Georgia by early June, with indictments by the end of the month. Indictments of whom, Woody asked, glancing up at the bear. Both prosecutors, some deputies, the New York judge, and his daughter, at least. The Secretary of State?

We hope. And his top staff, too. They were driving a lot of it. Good. Most likely charges? Trying to decide what not to charge. A bunch tied to election interference, toss some fraud in, and, of course, treason. Don't overcomplicate this, Reggie. Remember, the president's top priority is

publicly announced investigations. Right-wing TV repeating the words treason and abuse of power in every segment. That's the victory. Everything that follows is the great. The young guns all nodded. Woody had drilled this into their skulls even in the boardroom sessions. The old notion that you only brought cases you were sure to win was so 20th century, so institutionalist. Investigations, charges, and leaked tidbits of evidence dominated the airwaves of friendly media, destroying and bankrupting the enemy before a trial ever started. They could see it already. Even rumors that the feds were coming broke them.

But I thought you said for these cases the president wanted revenge, as in convictions in jail time. Woody stopped pacing for a moment, eyeing Reggie with narrow eyes. That was true. You're right, he practically yelled, laughing. For him, these New York and Georgia cases were personal. DEI prosecutors going after him? What the fuck? He does want revenge, so let's be sure to get some jail time with these, will ya? Humiliation. Reggie exaggerated a nod. Yes, sir, you can count on me. Woody scanned the room. Who's next? Long, slender arm sprung up to Woody's left. Utah, what you got? Cade Peterson was a former BYU small forward who'd been a star law student and prosecutor.

When he first walked into the boardroom with his light blonde mop of hair, he seemed so polite Woody thought he didn't stand a chance. But when he turned it on, the guy was an absolute bulldog. A good combination for a role that would involve television cameras. Sir, so much you wouldn't believe. Oh, I believe it. Look into any member of Congress long enough and you'll find a whole lot. The whole room laughed. They all knew Cade's portfolio was a top presidential priority, another revenge assignment, targeting the current and former members of Congress who had gone after him during and after his presidency. The members of the two impeachment committees and the January 6th committee, along with the prior speaker who put them all there.

The president blamed the first committee for his re-election loss and the second and third for humiliating him and costing him millions. He demanded payback for all three. While the impeachments and January 6th stuff were all pretty clean. Most of these people have all sorts of other stuff we can go after. Campaign finance, insider trading, personal problems, and skeletons. Woody ground his teeth as his body temperature rose.

Maybe this kid was too much of a Boy Scout after all. Fucking A, Utah, that's penny-ante bullshit. I'm not sure you understand this assignment. But, sir, you said you wanted us to look into every shit they've ever taken. Of course. But the highest crime they were part of is the January 6th committee. You said you wanted us to look into every shit they've ever taken. Of course. But the highest crime they were a part of is the January 6th committee and the impeachment committees.

That's what the president wants revenge for. The whole point is to show America that those bullshit investigations were corrupt from the outset. The illegitimate weaponization of the federal government against its own president. This is about writing the history books. We need those committees to have zero credibility by the time you're done.

Willie slammed his hand on the table for effect. We don't do that by settling for insider trading bullshit or not reporting campaign donations correctly. Shit. All our guys do that as well. We do it by attacking the committees as the fucking treason and abuse that they were, especially by the Republicans who were part of them.

He froze, then looked around the room, 10 wide-eyed faces staring back at him. Emmett Sands was the only one grinning, enjoying the tirade. You got it? Yes, sir. Cade replied sheepishly. And are you up to it? I am, sir.

He stepped two feet to his right. All of you. You got it? Yes, sir. They all yelled together. He stepped back to his left. And are you up to it? I am, sir. He turned back to Cade. Well, dig through those records again, damn it. If what they did can't be turned into an investigation of treason, I don't know why the fuck we're even here. Yes, sir. Do you have them tapped Utah? Of course, sir. Computers hacked? Yes, sir. Public and private? I've also got folks undercover in

offices. It's amazing what these agents can do. And how about your old friend from Provo, the traitor who stirred up more trouble than anybody else. The president was obsessed with the former Republican House member who'd emerged as the face of the January 6th committee. Sure, she'd lost the next primary, but that wasn't nearly enough punishment. Hell, she was more popular now than ever. A media darling. She's in the wave of investigations.

We've got eyes on her 24-7. There you go, Mr. Spurs-Cole. What these people did was total corruption. The president wants anyone involved destroyed because of it. I'll make it happen, sir. Woody nodded. Mission accomplished. With Cade Peterson and with the rest of the young guns who were staring in silence at Woody, at the bear. As his dad had shown him as a kid, tirades had their place. Before moving to the next report, Woody looked across the table at Emmett.

He mentioned hacking computers of sitting members of Congress. Are we okay with that? Emmett nodded. We are. This is an investigation into abuse of power and potential treason by those members. It's fair game. FBI legal counsel felt the same. Good, he said. As they did every week, he and Emmett had scripted this out before the meeting. Plus, all of it can be categorized as flowing from an official act of the president. Because if it's an official act, then the president is immune from it. He can't be held accountable.

And since anything the DOJ does that you do falls within the scope of that official act, you're immune too. That's right. Nobody. Plus, in the worst case scenario, he's made clear he will pardon any of you for doing anything you do in his service. You hear that, gentlemen? Emmett just spelled out why you each possess permanent get-out-of-jail-free cards, along with the greatest prosecutorial jobs on the freaking planet. He pivoted quickly, looking to his right, the Californian sitting in the middle seat. Okay, now let's turn to the guy who actually filed charges. Where are things in your insurrection act cases? Rocky Valdez was the most aggressive of the group, the undisputed boardroom champion.

With his loud voice, wrestlers build an occasional bouts of red-faced rage. The kid from Jersey who could very well be on steroids, Woody couldn't have cared less. Valdez clapped his large hands together loudly. Kicking ass and taking names, sir. These people are going to regret ever taking one step in protest, let alone publicizing all they did on social media. We're going to get them for everything they got us for on January 6th and then some. Which protests are we talking about? All the big ones, the inauguration ones, the deportation ones, the abortion ones, all those freaks whining about school vaccine freedom.

We're sending a message way beyond DC and New York. Our guys on the ground are working with local sheriffs to roll up insurrectionists in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Virginia. Women especially got out of control after the abortion order. You should see what they did to that Pittsburgh courthouse. They won't be doing that again. I guarantee that. Woody nodded his approval, then looked back to his left. The guy farthest from him who hadn't raised his hand.

Hey, Ensign, why so quiet? What'd you have going on? Ricky Neiman was generally quiet, but that left a misleading impression. It was rectitude, not passivity, honed from his time in the Naval Academy in JAG Corps, where you only spoke out once spoken to. But Ricky was a diehard, one of the veterans who'd helped coordinate the tactical maneuvers that got him into the Capitol on January 6th. The video of Neiman's military insignia and hand signals made him famous and led to a conviction, but the president granted

him amnesty in January. Sir, I'm so glad you asked. You will love what I've got going on. Tell us. As careful as they tried to be, we got them dead to rights. Remind everyone here just who you're talking about. The deep state, that's who. The institutionalists, the Ivy League snots and so-called experts who used to sit in these chairs and in conference rooms just like this all over the federal government. We're talking DOJ lawyers, FBI agents, diplomats, climate and pandemic scaremongers, treasury officials, and education bureaucrats. It turns out thousands of them thought it would be a good idea to offer... A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.

Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.

But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette.

MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's Dadication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov.

Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. Government data and other assets outside before we came in and before they left. Woody entered every job with a succession plan. Right now, this guy felt like the guy to replace him if he somehow didn't shoot the next charging bear in time. They won't ever learn, but how do we know all that, Woody asked.

Rookie looked downright gleeful as he answered. The same way you'd know if someone robbed a bank when cameras taped the whole thing. Some of them were dumb enough to leave traces on their government phones and computers. But they also didn't realize that we had their rickety private networks bugged by late February, as did our friends in Russia who let us know right away. Hell, our new people in these agencies watch them do it in person. So we got them nailed. Group emails, group texts, huge transfers of data, you name it, and we'll be able to reel them all in in the coming months. And just like you wanted, we'll get them for theft, espionage, and treason, open and shut cases.

Woody chuckled. We got more receipts and a cash register on the old CDC and pandemic team. Woody clenched his fist. Perfect. The CDC was the perfect symbol of the corrupt deep state. Even upstaging the president during COVID as if they were in charge, taking them down as pirates and traitors would bag one hell of a trophy.

I'll get back to you with the timetable. For the next 30 minutes, the remaining young guns gave their updates. Surveillance and investigations were underway of labor unions and left-wing political groups. They also were targeting the right-wing business groups and figures who hadn't supported the president in last year's primary, hunting rhinos. Woody enjoyed calling it. From arcane tax code violations to corruption, they would all soon face charges. Trent Bowman, the AUSA assigned the culture war portfolio, was working with the state prosecutors and sheriffs to go after abortionists, both the doctors and their mothers, including those sickening fertility specialists who defied

the president's order and kept killing embryos. Over the year, he also planned to target librarians and teachers peddling pornography, along with those who insisted on teaching banned history. Reports were already emerging of gay couples sneaking banned adoptions through in numerous states, so the FBI would start a dragnet there as well. Woody clapped his hands. He scanned around the room, counting to ten in his head. That's nine of you. Okay, who's... He looked down at the piece of paper in front of him. With a black sharpie, he'd placed check marks next to nine of ten areas listed on his agenda. Deep state, state-level traitors, Congress, insurrectionists, and so on. Only one topic didn't have a checkmark next to it. Media. Fake news. Before he could look up, a high-pitched whang broke in. That's me, sir. Odd. It was Luke Willis,

the normally sweet-talking prosecutor out of Tennessee. Luke was so good on his feet that he'd helped both Tennessee senators and the current Governor do debate crap in recent years. Playing their opponents, he'd wipe the floor with all three candidates, which is why they'd effusively vouched for him for this job. Luke was never shy. He was so quiet, Luke. Well, uh, sir? With an awkward grin, Luke and the rest of the young guns looked to what he's left. Reporters note, they were looking directly at me. Woody turned to his right, remembering that a

reporter was sitting in the corner. He walked over and patted him on the shoulder, then gave it a heart squeeze. Sorry, Mr. Fake News, he said as the young guns laughed out loud. This is the part where you're going to have to step outside. Now, while the stories in this episode are over, we're not done with Trump's Project 2025. In a moment, the author David Pepper will link the stories we've heard to specific policies in Project 2025 and Trump's own words. By the way, the next episode of Trump's Project 2025, up close and personal, Chapter 6, will feature the harrowing stories of people caught up in Trump's promise to deport millions of undocumented immigrants. Each one of the millions of people Trump wants to deport is a single human being with a story. This is Alvaro's, set in one of the mass deportation camps Trump has promised. He was only 12, but he was smart enough to see it clearly.

What made Mama happy was helping him. Ever since he could remember, he'd been the cause of her difficulties. She was on the way to get him from school when the gang took her from San Benito. Before escaping to America, she had come back for him. He knew now that the journey had been far more difficult because he was with her. Things she had to do with the men who were helping them, all to keep him safe. They were in this camp because of him.

It was all mothers and children, the family center, they called it. Every morning, plumes of dust in the distance signaled that the next wave of prisoners was arriving. Guards took the new women and children from the buses into the processing center. While frightened and lost, the new families looked alive, healthy. Their clothes and faces and hair appeared far more fresh

than those of the prisoners they were joining. That would change in days, Alvaro knew. And by the time families lined up to board the green buses that took them away, they looked like ghosts. The human cost of Trump's despicable fear-mongering of migrants is told in the next chapter of Trump's Project 2025 Up Close and Personal, the mass deportation disaster. You can find this series in your podcast app or 2025pod.com.

Again, we ask you to please subscribe, review, and most importantly, as I urged at the beginning, please share this podcast with all of your friends and relatives who may not know just how dangerous a second Trump term and Project 2025 would be. Next, author David Pepper will lay out the connections between our stories and Trump's own promises. Once again, we remind you that while this story is fiction, it's based on actual policies contained in Project 2025 and Trump's own words, as author David Pepper explains. Author's note by David Pepper. Project 2025, the DOJ, and immunity. Donald Trump has made clear from the opening of the campaign that his goal is to seek revenge. I am your retribution, he vows, and he and his team name names. Trump casually tells allies he plans to have the federal

government, quote, punish critics and opponents, end quote. And his list includes not just Democrats, but former allies such as Bill Barr and John Kelly, and those who dared cross or criticize him, such as Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley. Quote, look, when this election is over, based on what they've done, I would have every right to go after them. And it would be easy because it's Joe Biden. He amplifies social media posts about a military tribunal for Liz Cheney for treason and the prosecution of a broad swath of elected officials, including Biden, Kamala Harris, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, and bipartisan members of the January 6th committee.

And he says he will investigate the prosecutors who investigated his crimes, among other reasons, quote, I will direct a completely overhauled DOJ to investigate every radical out-of-control prosecutor in America for their illegal, racist, and reverse enforcement of the law, end quote. His loyalists have been equally explicit. Steve Bannon said, quote, November 5th is Judgment Day. January 20th, 2025 will be Accountability Day, end quote. To those who investigated Trump, he said, quote, you are going to be investigated, prosecuted, and incarcerated. This has nothing to do with retribution. It has nothing to do with revenge, because retribution and revenge might be another order of magnitude. This has to do with justice, end quote. Another conservative lawyer, John Yoo, vowed, quote, in order to prevent the case against Trump from

assuming a permanent place in the American political system, Republicans will have to bring charges against Democratic officers, even presidents. Another Trump surrogate has been circulating a list all year of top targets of MAGA retribution. The list, quote, includes numerous Democratic and Republican elected officials, FBI intelligence officials, members of the House Select January 6th Committee, U.S. Capitol Police officers and civilian employees, witnesses in Trump's two impeachment trials and the January 6th committee hearings, and journalists from publications ranging from CNN and the Washington Post to Reuters and Raw Story, all considered political enemies of Trump, end

quote. Now, let's be clear. Under traditional American governance, none of this lock-em-up talk would lead to much. In fact, Trump repeatedly called for investigations of enemies when he was president, but they largely didn't happen. And that's due to safeguards, bright lines, and checks and balances that keep a president from exacting political revenge through the government itself. At the heart of those checks and balances has been the independence of the prosecutorial and litigation functions of the Department of Justice, as well as the independence of the FBI. But those guardrails all disappear under Project 2025, which proposes a, quote, top-to-bottom overhaul in the DOJ. That's from page 547. These changes would empower Trump to exact the very political revenge he's been threatening all campaign.

The heart of Project 2025 is eliminating the DOJ's independence from the White House and Trump if he were elected. On page 559, Project 2025 says, quote, While the supervision of litigation is a DOJ responsibility. The department falls under the direct supervision to control the president of the United States as a component of the executive branch, end quote. The plan also makes clear that the FBI, quote, is not independent from the department and does not deserve to be treated as if it were, page 549. One way to establish this rather than the 10-year term, quote, the director of the FBI must remain politically accountable to the president in the same manner as the head of any other federal

department or agency, end quote. That's on page 552. There are two key steps in eviscerating the DOJ's independence in Project 2025. Quote, first, flood the Justice Department with stalwart conservatives unlikely to say no to controversial orders from the White House. Second, restructure the department so key decisions are concentrated in the hands of administration loyalists rather than career bureaucrats. End quote. That's a summary from Reuters. More on the first step. The plan aims to, quote, ensure the assignment of sufficient political appointees

throughout the department. The number of appointees serving throughout the Department of Pride administrations, particularly the Trump administration, has not been sufficient either to stop bad things from happening through proper management or to promote the president's agenda. It is not enough for political appointees to serve in obvious offices like the Office of the Attorney General or the Office of the Deputy Attorney General. The next conservative administration must make every effort to obtain the resources to support a vast expansion of the number of appointees in every office and component across the Department of Justice, especially in the Civil Rights Division, the FBI, and the Executive Office for Immigration Review. That's all directly out of Project 2025, that quote, page 569. On the second step, Project 2025 calls for tearing down barriers between the White House and the DOJ. Quote, the Justice Department and the White House counsel should act as a team. And while Project 2025 notes that

contact between the White House and the Department of Justice traditionally occurs between the Office of the White House Counsel and the Attorney General or Deputy Attorney General, a practice that aims to reduce the risk of political interference in law enforcement, Project 2025 encourages a new administration to, quote, re-examine this policy and determine whether it might be more efficient or more appropriate for communication to occur through additional channels, end quote. That's all a New York Times summary of the plan. One of the premier experts on authoritarian governments, a good friend, Ruth Ben-Ghiat, explained the danger of these proposals, quote, the very definition of authoritarianism is when the

executive branch overwhelms or politicizes or hinders from being independent, the judiciary, and the other branches of government. You also have to have a compliant civil service. They're going to take apart the DOJ as an independent body and make it into something else. That something is a body that will protect the president and his cronies, end quote. Flushed with political appointees and no longer held back by independents, Project 2025 makes it clear that, quote, litigation decisions must be made consistent with the president's agenda. That's on page 559 of the DOJ section. And even though that clause includes one caveat that, quote, criminal prosecutions can warrant

different treatment, end quote, it doesn't elaborate what that means. And the, quote, treatment, unquote, described later follows the same theme of highly politicized investigations and actions. For example, as Trump does nearly daily, the plan in Project 2025 urges politicized prosecutions out of the gate, including, it says, the DOJ should prosecute any use of the mails to transport abortion bills. That's on page 567. Should, quote, restrain the access of both the legislative and judicial branches. That's on page 560, should, quote, initiate legal action against local officials, including district attorneys who deny American citizens the, quote, equal protection of the laws, end quote,

by refusing to prosecute criminal offenses in their jurisdictions. That's on page 553. And should target in-state officials for prosecution for, quote, voter registration fraud and unlawful ballot correction, end quote. This is almost word for word what Trump himself promises when he says, quote, and I will direct a completely overhauled DOJ to investigate every radical out-of-control prosecutor in America for their illegal racist and reverse enforcement of the law, end quote. Another example where Project 2025 overlaps nearly word for word with everything that Trump also says. The plan explicitly calls for prosecutions in Pennsylvania for election allegations that were part of Trump's big lie after the 2020 election. Quote, the Pennsylvania

Secretary of State should have been and still should be investigated and prosecuted for potential violations of federal law. That's on page 564 of Project 2025. In sum, as PBS summarizes, quote, Project 2025 proposes placing the Justice Department squarely under Donald Trump's authority, doing away with any traditional independence that we usually see for the Justice Department and the Attorney General. They want Donald Trump to install a loyal Attorney General, install loyal lawyers across the board, and Trump himself has repeatedly said that he wants to do this, end quote from PBS. And the plan would also, quote, transform the FBI into a political task force, end quote. As if this

weren't all bad enough, the Supreme Court's recent immunity decision made this entire plan far more dangerous, adding a layer of protection to all the above actions that Project 2025 proposes taking, no matter how outrageous and lawless. In a recent podcast, Neil Katyal explained how easy the court has made it for the DOJ to protect the president and itself from accountability. Quote, all the president has to do is slap on the label, this is an official act, end quote. And Judge J. Michael Luted, the conservative, echoed that risk. Quote, this is an unequivocal clear holding by the Supreme Court of the United States of America that a president will be immune from prosecution for violating not only the Constitution but any criminal statute. As a practical matter, virtually every single thing the president does

is and will be forever considered an official act for which he will be immune from prosecution, end quote. But the decision's protection of official acts goes beyond the president himself, and this is where it provides such a dangerous assist to Project 2025. As NYU law professor Melissa Murray explained on MSNBC, the decision establishes that when the president acts for the DOJ or issues orders via the DOJ, quote, because the DOJ is viewed as an extension of the president, those actions are immunized. Project 2025 ramps this up, puts it on steroids, makes it impossible to prosecute the president or indeed anyone working through the DOJ for those acts because they are official acts in the perimeter of his official

duties. Folks, what I describe in Chapter 5 is a story, but exactly what I describe in Chapter 5 could happen if Project 2025 is put into place. It will allow Donald Trump to exact the very revenge he's promising to, and the Supreme Court decision on immunity would give both him and DOJ attorneys and FBI agents immunity for carrying out those official acts. Work as hard as you can to stop them from grabbing power. Trump's Project 2025 Up Close and Personal is available again on all the different podcast apps and at 2025pod.com. We'd like to thank all the artists who volunteered their time to make this

episode. Richard Schiff and Morgan Fairchild, who read Chapter 5, and Jason Kravitz, Tony Michaels, Jim Holmes, Joe Walsh, and Omid Abtai contributed character voices. Sound design by Marilis Ernst and John Moser. Trump's Project 2025, up close and personal, is written by David Pepper and produced by Pepper, Melissa Jopeltier, and Jay Feldman, and is a production of Ovington Avenue Productions and the Bill Press Pot. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad

because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.