#RolandMartinUnfiltered - Tulsa race massacre survivors testify; Pgh gets 1st Black mayor; House approves Jan. 6 commission

Episode Date: May 20, 2021

5.19.21 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Tulsa race massacre survivors testify on Capitol Hill; Is change coming to Pa.? Pittsburgh gets 1st Black mayor & Philly DA Larry Krasner wins primary; New lawsuit filed challenging the state's discriminatory election laws; Washington Gov. Jay Inslee signed bills that improve accountability for law enforcement; House approves commission on deadly Jan. 6 riotSupport #RolandMartinUnfiltered via the Cash App ☛https://cash.app/$rmunfiltered or via PayPal ☛ https://www.paypal.me/rmartinunfiltered#RolandMartinUnfiltered is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The remaining survivors of the 1921 Tulsa race riot massacre testified on Capitol Hill today and called on Congress to consider reparations for the damages done. Change may be coming to Pennsylvania.

Pittsburgh could get its first black mayor in Philadelphia, D.A. Larry Krasner. He won his primary as guaranteed victory in November. In Florida, another lawsuit has been filed challenging the state's discriminatory election laws. Also in Washington State, Governor Jay Inslee has signed a bill that will improve accountability for law enforcement. Many say it is one of the most important police reform bills in the country. Also on today's show, the family of Andrew Brown. They have filed a federal lawsuit. We'll explain all of that coming up next on Roller Martin Unfiltered. It's time to bring the font. Let's rolling. Best believe he's knowing.

Putting it down from sports to news to politics. With entertainment just for kicks. He's rolling. It's on go, go, go, y'all. It's rolling, marching, yeah. Rolling with rolling now. Folks, today on Capitol Hill, testimony with some of the last surviving members of the Tulsa race riot, which took place in 1921. Riveting, shocking testimony that took place, folks.

It's been 100 years since one of the most severe racist incidents in American history took place. Upwards of 300 black people were killed when a heavily armed white mob stormed Greenwood Avenue, known as the Black Wall Street, leaving folks dead, buried in mass graves. Today, the House Judiciary Committee, subcommittee, heard testimony from survivors to consider possible legal remedies to compensate massacre survivors and their descendants. Here's Viola Fletcher, one of three witnesses who recounted the sights of the dead black bodies lying in the streets.

My name is Viola Ford Fletcher. I'm the daughter of Lucinda Ellis and John Wesley Ford of Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm the sister of Hughes Van Ellis who is also here today. I'm a survivor of the Tulsa Race Massacre. Two weeks ago I celebrated my 107th birthday. Today I'm visiting Washington, D.C. for the first time in my life. I'm here seeking justice, and I'm asking my country to acknowledge what happened in Tulsa in 1921. I have been blessed with a long life and have seen the best and the worst of this country. I think about the terror horror inflicted upon black people in this country every day.

This subcontinuity has the power to lead us down a better path. I'm asking that my country acknowledge what has happened to me, the traumas and the pain, the loss, and I ask the survivors and descendants to be given the chance to seek justice. Open the door. All of you know how easy it is to deny that a violence mob threatened your lives and took your property. For 70 years, the city of Tulsa and its stream of charmers told us that Damascus didn't happen like we didn't happen like we

didn't see it with our own eyes you have have me here right now you see mother Randall you see my brother Hughes Van Ellis we live this history and we can't ignore it it it's our lives with us. Oh, my goodness. We lost everything that day, our homes, our churches, our newspapers, our theaters, our lives. Greenwood represented all the best of what was possible for black people in America and for all the people. No one cared about us for almost

a hundred years we and our history have been forgotten washed away this Congress must recognize us and our history for black America for the white Americans and for all Americans with that some justice. I suppose that'd be it. Thank you. I thought it was another page. Do you want to say anything else? Is there anything else you want to say? No, no, it's not. Thank you very much.

We appreciate very much your testimony. Thank you, Mr. President. HR 40 is awaiting a full vote in the U.S. House that will establish a commission to study reparation proposals. Let's go to my panel. A. Scott Bolin, former chair of National Bar Association Political Action Committee. Robert Petillo, executive director of Rainbow Push Coalition Peach Tree Street Project. Monique Presley, legal analyst and crisis manager.

Let me know, folks. So I'll start with you, Scott. We've had, you've had attorneys, Willie Gary, the late Johnny Cochran and others who first, and also Professor Charles Ogletree, who first were representing these families in trying to get compensation for what took place. I remember them being at Congressional Black Caucus probably 15 years ago. The state of Oklahoma finally apologized, but they've not at one time spent a single dollar. We're going to be in Tulsa next week, beginning on May 27th through June 1st for the commemoration of the massacre. They have a Tulsa race riot commission. Money is being raised, all these different things, but not a single cent is going to those survivors.

And so what legal argument can they make to be funded, to be repaired, because there are survivors of the actual massacre. Unfortunately, only three left. Yeah. A couple of things, Roland. They could, one, file a lawsuit, and while the defense would argue that they had statute of limitations as run, they could argue that it was an ongoing conspiracy and that they had statute of limitations is run, they could argue that it was an ongoing conspiracy and that they were blocked from filing a lawsuit in between that period of time.

Or they could even argue that there were other ongoing claims that they're suffering from on an ongoing basis. The least or rather the least onerous approach to this would be the state legislature and the governor getting together and proposing dollars and compensation in their budget even if it was through an annuity where they will be paid out over time not just to the survivors but to the families of those who didn't survive.

It could be carefully crafted. The state has state insurance. The insurance carriers probably wouldn't pay, but the state has money in their budget to do the right thing. And that's really the easiest, the best and least restrictive approach to getting them compensated if the state has the will to do it. But the reality is this here, Monique, and that is Oklahoma, Republican red state, they won't do that.

Done it a long time ago. If they had any interest whatsoever in doing the right thing, it would have already been done. So while I agree with my colleague that these are things that could happen, I have very little faith that any measures that are available legally or any measures that are available, as we would say in the law, in equity, where people do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, or where a judge steps out, does extrajudicial things with his or her power. No, I do not see that happening here. Robert? Well, I think the issue that you're going to run into is that this would open up the floodgates for every other white massacre that happened between the mid-18th century and the mid-19th

century. You could go back to Atlanta, 1906 race riots. You can go to Elaine, Arkansas. You can go to many of the other cases. So what would have to happen is these individuals who are still alive, they are in the best position because they have, you can definitely tie damages to them. Often we hear in the argument against reparations, well, how are you going to identify who was damaged? Do people have actual physical damage?

But then you're going to find the party who was responsible, that in this case being the government, because as we know, there were police involved, there were surplus World War II aircraft involved in the bombing and killings of these communities. And I think if they could get this case in front of a federal judge, at least they could survive a motion to dismiss or a motion for summer judgment and be able to move it towards trial. I think if you get past that procedural hurdle, that's how you start compelling people to doing the right thing.

The hard part is just getting in front of the judge and getting the, and at least surviving the initial barrage of motions to be able to actually have a good faith argument over it. It's a hard one, is a long shot, but I think it's the best shot that we have given the current political climate and we're in the best shot that we have given the current political climate. And we're in the best position we have been in the last hundred years to address it. Well, the thing that we're looking at here, I mean, the reality is the state was indeed an actor in this. These folks were not protected. They did not send in state officials as well.

And so can you not make the argument, Scott, that the state was complicit in allowing this violence to move forward? Yeah, but you still got to convince the judge and jury and beat the motions to dismiss because arguing that they would be out of time. Here's another approach that if the federal government, right, in an effort to bring justice to these individuals, if the Dems take over the House and Senate, right, then, or if they take it over with a larger majority, if you will, after 2022, they could seek federal relief. This is about a groundswell of support and a movement, if you will, and making people do the right thing.

It may not happen in Oklahoma, but if the Dems are in control of all three houses and their sentiment of support, then why not ask the feds to do the same? Monique? I agree with Scott. But as I said before... That's two in a row.

It's early in the show. Well, but the thing is, Scott is probably the best at coming up with the narrowest of legal theories that may, if the sun rises at 546 in 15 seconds, work. And they're always right, but they're just not likely. And I'm just much more of a realist. And no, no, I do not see it. Yes, it was a state actor. But no, they've had good lawyers working on this for a whole lot of years with zero success.

So I just I don't even portend to think that there's something new that can be done here. It's going to take voters voting in in a really hard state, a lot of electeds in order to get this done. So, Robert, should there be mass protests? Should there be targeting of Oklahoma, putting pressure there? Again, they're having all of these events taking place in Tulsa. Actually, it's very interesting. You have these competing interests. You sort of got the official Tulsa commission. That's the city commission.

That's been called the white commission. Then you have the black folks doing their own, and I've been getting emails and agendas from both. And so people are going to be gathering there May 27th through June 1st. Again, what type of, should there be pressure on the Oklahoma legislature to say, hey, this happened in your state. Y'all should be paying for this.

Well, you know, the craziest thing about this, and we talk about Du Bois and the souls of black folks, this is a time to start appealing to the souls of white folks. And truth, the scariest thing about this conversation is, most white people did not find out about the Tulsa, Oklahoma race riots until the cartoon or the comic book show Watchmen came on HBO and they said, wait, this really happened? This isn't a cartoon. This isn't Thanos.

This really happened to black people. So I think we have to start appealing and helping them to understand the history as it took place. They know more about the Tudors in England or about the ancient Romans than they know about black history in America and the trials and tribulations that we have gone through and the people who have actually lived directly through it. And I think once they understand and once you can build that groundswell, well, then you can create a legislative majority that can address these issues because you're going to have similar issues with Native American populations. You recently had a court ruling that said half of Oklahoma belongs to the Native American populations. We recently had a court ruling that said half of Oklahoma

belongs to the Native American populations. You gotta have the same issues with lynching victims. And 5,000 African Americans were lynched by state actors in many cases who would also argue that they would have a claim against the government. But once you have to change these souls of white folks to understand what that history is, that this isn't critical race theory,

this isn't a conspiracy against you, it's the history that we have lived, and that creates the political groundswell to have to remedy many of these problems and move the ball forward on social justice in America. So you have, of course, the House, who hasn't been scheduled yet on H.R. 40. Here, though, Scott, you have,

because you have all these different debates, folks talk about taking back to slavery. In Evanston, though, Scott, you have, because you have all these different debates. Folks talk about taking back to slavery. In Evanston, Illinois, they base it upon federal housing patterns. And so if you've had before, well, the federal government provided relief, compensation to interned Japanese Americans, how do you make the argument that individuals who suffered from racial destruction of homes and communities should not also be compensated? You can't. There's no distinction. I mean, everybody's struggle is different. But if they apologize to the

Japanese internment victims and compensated them, and they've apologized to them, why would black America and its 400 years of oppression be any different? I got to tell you, we are the largest minority group, at least we've been for quite some time. Actually, now we're second. Latinos are number one, we're two. I said for a long time we were, but we're clearly the most oppressed from slavery to current. And yet America just seems to be resistant to apologize for the atrocities we've suffered and to let alone compensate us, right? Just apologize, which would be the first step, in my opinion, of reparations. And yet, the melanin in my skin just will not compare people that don't look like me to do the right

thing. For some reason, they want to walk away and say, well, my ancestors did that, but I haven't done that. But people that don't look like me are part of the living legacy of oppression of their ancestors. And you're not giving up anything if I ask you to do the right thing, because you didn't earn that white privilege. It was given to you, and we built America. Now, that's a hard sell to people that don't look like me, but you know what? It's the right thing, and the right thing to do. Well, Juanique, doing the right thing is not necessarily what America's always done. No, but what I wanted to say, you were talking about the kind of how they're having the official,

non-official, the black, the white, in terms of the memorials. I know for sure that Senator Scott and that Senator Booker and some significant and maybe all the way up to the top of the ladder at the White House are attending the black folks commemoration. So if ever there was going to be a time where people would want to make their voices heard, this would be it. Good point, Robert. Yeah, I do think we have to work across the aisle. to make their voices heard, this would be it. Good point, Robert. Yeah, I do think we have to work across the aisle. You have Tim Scott who has shown some interest.

We have to start convincing people that the same way, I would just, I tell people all the time, I just want black folks in America to get that same deal that the Jewish community got in Israel because they recognize the harm done to that community. They recognize the trials and tribulations, atrocities that took place in Europe over the course of many centuries leading up to the Holocaust and could inevitably see what led to it. And they got a country out of it. They got military protection. They got subsidies. They got

literally all the entire package. So why can't black Americans get that for what we've gone through in this country, what they've gotten over there for what they've gone through? And I think that we have to get on one accord and start fighting towards that because accepting anything less than that is to dishonor those ancestors who went before us, who fought and who died and who were massacred and killed and went through the types of atrocities no human being has ever meant to experience. You dishonor them if you do not fight to remedy and to have justice for their names. Speaking of fighting for the honorable one's name,

the family of Andrew Brown Jr., they plan to file a federal lawsuit against these sheriff's deputies who were involved in his shooting death on April 21st. This comes after yesterday's news conference where D.A., Andrew Womble Jr., announced that the shooting was justified and he was not going to pursue charges against those particular officers. Chase Lynch, who is one of the attorneys for the Brown family based there in North Carolina, he also says the family is demanding that the family wants to see full unredacted body camera footage as well as details from the State Bureau of Investigation, which who the DA said led their particular,

who led the investigation part of this. Monique, what about that in terms of the lawsuit with the family against the sheriff's deputies in federal courtroom? I don't see it holding much promise. This is another one of those areas where the prosecution at the state level had a wide amount of discretion, and they are using it in a manner that really most of us don't like, don't approve of, I think is wrongful. But the federal standards are so different than that, that I don't think that there will be any hurry up because a lawsuit

is filed. And I say this at risk of every single lawyer who's on this case, because I know them, but this just to me is not a winning strategy. So, Robert, what is a winning strategy? If you're the family, what do you do? Because the only thing left is what? Wait for the FBI to see what happens with their investigation? Well, I wouldn't say wait for the FBI, but I think an analogous case in many ways would be the Ahmaud Arbery case

because initially it was not charged by the local DA, went to another DA, was not charged by that one, went to a third DA, was not charged. It wasn't until the full video came out that you had the Georgia Bureau of Investigations come in and then have the charges put in. So I don't think what you think of this as being the only bite of the apple that's going to happen. You're going to have state level investigations. We are at some point going to get the full unredacted body cam footage. We are going to get those ring video doorbell cameras coming out. We will find out witness statements, et cetera. This is why it's so important to have to vote in local elections and have local prosecutors that actually support and believe

in the constitution of the United States of America, because the way the process is supposed to work is you kill somebody, we indict you, we have a trial. And that the point of the trial is so that the public understands the evidence against the individual, that we don't have a secret star chamber, that the jury gets the opportunity to hear the witness testimony and see all the evidence and come out with a resolution that the public can accept. When it's simply a prosecutor behind closed doors saying, in my personal judgment, in my personal judgment my individualized opinion this should not go forward there should not be a prosecution

that's something the public cannot accept so i do think we'll see more bites of the apple at this on the state level uh as far as the federal hate crimes laws this is part of the reason we need to reform those laws because they've been in place so long it's nearly impossible often for the justice department to build a prima facie case to even make charges despite even the most incongruent evidence. So it's time for us to take a look at those charges that are on the books. We saw the Asian American community recently, the enhancement of hate crime protection for them, which they do the same for African Americans against police brutality. But the thing here though, look, Scott, I understand the point Robert makes there in terms of other investigations, but you can't compare it to Ahmaud Arbery.

The difference there was it went through three different prosecutors, and then the third one recused themselves and invited the Georgia Bureau of Investigation in. North Carolina law, the DA has to invite, the state attorney general in North Carolina already is on record saying he would investigate, but the DA has to ask them to come in. So because this DA has the jurisdiction, it's limited in terms of what can happen next. The state can't come in and say, okay, we're now going to take this thing over. So in North Carolina, it appears as if that's it. Well, but wait a minute now.

I talk about the civil justice system all the time. Am I missing something? The criminal justice system may give punishment, but it doesn't bring back the person that's deceased. Well, that's why I asked the question at the outset when the family said they were going to file a federal lawsuit against the sheriff's deputies. That's a civil lawsuit. I'm speaking of actions taken in North Carolina on the criminal side. The district attorney has the jurisdiction by him choosing not to pursue charges.

That's it in that particular county. There's no other way in North Carolina for the state to move forward in a criminal investigation because the DA's already rendered his decision. Yeah, no, I agree with my colleague. That's pretty much it. You can't appeal a discretionary investigation that says they're not going to go forward,

which is why you've got to focus on the federal lawsuit on the civil side. He's not coming back, but compensation is a possibility. And by the way, they can file in state court, too. They can file state charges in federal court as well and have ancillary jurisdiction. The only thing left for this family to do is to get ayered up, file their lawsuit. They can file state claims in the state court. They can file federal claims in the federal court, or they could do both, right? They could do both in federal court. And if they can survive a motion for summary judgment or motion to dismiss, then that's where their justice is. That's where their civil justice is. They get compensated if they win.

But in either justice system, criminal or civil, the decease is not coming back. And you can get discovery, by the way. You can get mediation on the civil side, and you really can take the depositions of the bad actors. You can take the depositions of the state actors, if you will, as well as the DA in a civil proceeding. And you get a lot more evidence and a lot more information about what happened and the exposure and liability of not only the state, but also the bad actors

through the civil justice process. But how about this, Robert, and weigh in on this one here. Okay. So this DA made the decision. What are the people, first of all, this DA is running for office, a Superior Court judge. What if there's a new DA? Can a new DA pick it up and actually indict? Absolutely. They can.

But, and also there's another factor. Remember the judge ruled that this information cannot be made public for what, 30 to 45 days when the body cam footage will be released to the public. There's every every chance and every opportunity. The information gets made public and there's no pressure put on the D.A. to at least reopen the case or to invite the attorney general in to be able to investigate it from a state level. So I wouldn't give up on this this just yet, because I do think that as information becomes more public, as public outcry, these people are still public officials who have to respond to the will of the

people. And as that stuff grows, you may see this reopen and see another opportunity to have criminal justice in the case, as well as civil justice, as Scott mentioned. Monique, you're shaking your head. Because no, the prosecutor is not supposed to respond to the will of the people. That is exactly the opposite. I mean, the reason why we

protest is because we protest an injustice. That doesn't mean that a prosecutor who's doing what he or she believes the law requires is supposed to change their decision, even a discretionary decision, based on the fact that people are angry. But based on the fact of a fresh new look, a new prosecutor certainly can do that.

One second, one second, one second. Monique finished and Scott. Okay. So what, what, what we're finding, and this is another case where we're finding it. What we really need to know is why they came out there in riot gear in the first place. What we really need to know is why to execute a drug warrant they had, you know, a SWAT team times five. What we really need to know is why they were predisposed to think that this man, who was not some upper-level criminal, not even like a low-level felon, why any of that was necessary, because they then are ready. They're at the ready for something terrible to happen.

But when all you're looking at is the video and when there's a tie, the tie is going to always end up going to law enforcement. So for instance, the car itself is viewed in the eyes of the law as a deadly weapon. So even if the decedent was backing up and then going forward in order to get away, and it's arguable that any one of those officers was placed in danger, even a hair on their chinny chin chin was touched, then a court is going to uphold whichever one of those officers or all three of them shot. That is the unfortunate part of the matter. We've got to change laws so that we don't end up in a position where we are sending law enforcement inappropriately to start wars on civilians because that's what happened that day. And even if the decedent got scared and tried to get away, and in the course of getting away,

placed one of those officers in danger, it ain't going to go right. It's not. And it's going to be hard to prove that any of that was because of race. This is very different than any of the other cases that we've been looking at. And so I agree, frankly, with the prosecutor saying this is a tragedy. What I don't agree with is the decision that was made. But that's because I, too, like everybody else, haven't seen the full video. I don't know if seeing the full video is going to help us. I want to see it, but I don't know if it's going to help.

Scott? I mean, some of what you say is the obvious, but you certainly have to continue to protest and keep the pressure on because justice delayed is justice denied. And if you get a new prosecutor, absolutely, a new prosecutor can take a fresh look at it and determine that it is worth going forward. And that's only going to come from political and public pressure. I mean, that's what happened in the Cosby case that you know very well. They cut a deal on the civil side, and they agreed not to prosecute him. And then years later, they got a new prosecutor. Hell, he ran on prosecuting Cosby, and then, you know, Cosby got prosecuted. It's probably a bad example,

but he shouldn't have been prosecuted. But my point is discretion. You have discretion. The only difference between a criminal proceeding... Monique, Monique, hold on, Monique, Monique, hold on. I stopped here from interrupting you. You can't interrupt him. Scott?

No, but he's on whiteboard. No, no, no, no. I got it, Scott. Scott, finish your point. Then I'll go back to Monique. Then I'll go to Robert. Go. So DAs and federal prosecutors have a huge amount of discretion. If you can convince one to take a fresh look at it and they convince them that it's worth pursuing, then that can certainly happen. But again, you still have the civil, the criminal justice piece helps you on the civil side normally, but sure, you got to keep the pressure on and get a different decision, throw some resources behind it, and then let them bring the prosecution. Because there's some cases that have to be tried, whether they're tough or not. There's some that have to be tried because the public needs to have confidence in the prosecution and the justice system and doing what's right, even if you may not be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. You got to try.

Monique? What happened in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and you know this is not a subject that I speak on ever, but what happened there is the exact reason why prosecutors should not change their minds with the change of their political parties or with the change of election cycles. They are to uphold an oath with neither fear... But it happened. Scott, Scott, she's talking.

Why don't you just let me debate her? Because the audience can't hear what either one is saying if you're talking over each other. Monique, go. They are to uphold an oath with neither fear nor favor, with a fair and impartial view of the evidence doesn't change, then the fact that a lynch mob is waiting outside their door or waiting on their Twitter feed should not change the decision to prosecute or not prosecute. So what I am saying here is that no, that is not the reason why we protest. We don't protest so that we can change the just discretion of a prosecutor. We protest so that we can change laws so that we don't end up in this position

that we are in right now. But no, the reason why I want to be able to trust the prosecutors is because they know the things we don't know. So if we see the evidence and it looks like oh my god the way it looked for us in george floyd the difference between what they showed us and what a separate camera of a teenage girl looked like fine but if we you had all kinds of facts into the debate. You add all kinds of facts into the debate. It happens all the time.

Robert, go ahead. You may not like it, but it does. Robert, go ahead. This is why I think that we have to calm down and wait for the additional evidence to be made publicly. Judd said 30 to 45 days for the release of the video. We still need to find out the neighbor's ring camera video, what is on that. Also, through the civil justice system, we'll be finding out more information about the state of mind of the police officers, the one involved. And I think once that information comes out, it may very well be that the judge, either the DA has to recuse himself

and allow the state to come in, or they'll have to reopen the issue. But I don't think we should assume this is a fait accompli, that we are done with this discussion i do think there will be more more so coming from the state going forward all right folks let's talk about politics let's talk about yesterday in pennsylvania a lot of republicans were saying hey we now can uh do some big pickups and defeat some democrats well in pittsburgh uh that city is close to electing its first black mayor. Yesterday, state representative Ed Gainey won the Democratic primary, upsetting two-term mayor Bill Peduto. Gainey ran his campaign on the platform of fighting for everyone and not just a few.

He accused Peduto of breaking promises as communities of color continue to suffer. Gainey could become Pittsburgh's first black mayor as a Republican opponent as not filed to run in the primary. And so that means that he'll be running unopposed in November. In Philadelphia, a lot of eyes were on this particular race where progressive district attorney Larry Craster was running. He survived a challenger in the Democratic primary from challenger Carlos Vega, who built himself as a less progressive candidate. He also ran with the strong support of the police union. Krasner will face Republican challenger

and well-known local attorney Charles Peruto Jr. in November, but we're talking about a very Democratic city. And so Krasner is essentially a shoe-in. Here's what this election also says, Robert, and we're seeing this. Historically, when you ran for DA, you had the endorsement of the police union, you were a shoe in. We're now seeing that the endorsement of the police union in some of these cities acts as the one thing you do not want. Well, you're absolutely correct. I think we're seeing this wave across the country.

I call it the black girl magic wave of mayors that we saw nationwide, everything from St. Louis to Atlanta to New Orleans to Baltimore, all across the country. And we're seeing the same thing with progressive DAs because individuals are understanding that, quite frankly, locking up people and throwing away the key does not do anything to keep communities safer. It doesn't do anything to reduce crime rates. It doesn't do anything for restorative justice or to bring people back into the community as restored citizens. And because of that, we're seeing a new progressive wave of elected officials, particularly on the criminal justice side of the aisle. What's going to be interesting, however, to see the police response, because what we saw in Chicago and Atlanta and Baltimore and other places that we try to put reforms in. We have a progressive district attorney

who was trying to go up against the police union and the fraternal order of police, that they often will just simply allow crime to go get out of control to try to get those elected officials out of office. So it's going to be a continuous balancing act between the interest of restorative justice and the power of those police unions.

But at the same time, the public has to stay engaged. You cannot simply vote and then check out because these progressive politicians that you elected are going to need your support going forward. Otherwise, they will be politically crippled. We're seeing Keisha Lance Bottoms not running for re-election in Atlanta. Partly for that reason, the police decided that if they were going to have to face sanctions for anything they did,

they would simply let crime run out of control. So we're going to have to be focused and cognizant of that and make sure we keep electing more progressive elected officials and holding these people accountable. We saw, Monique, in Los Angeles where Jackie Lacey, an African-American woman, was the DA. She got defeated. There were a lot of black folks who opposed her because in her tenure, she never prosecuted a single police officer.

Many felt that she was too cozy with police. What we're now seeing, we're now seeing voters who truly understand how vital a district attorney, the role that it plays. I think after, of course, what took place in the death of Tamir Rice, with Cuyahoga County, that DA was defeated. When you had Bob McCullough, the DA in St. Louis who got beat by Wesley Bell, people now realize that, you know what, if you want to change the criminal justice system, start with the DA. Yes, and as I've said on this show

probably at least 15 times, we want district attorneys, county attorneys, state's attorneys of conscience, not necessarily of a particular color. Lacey is the prime example of that. Do I want more black and brown folks in these offices? Yes, because I believe based on life experience, based on cultural experiences, they have a better understanding of the people whom they will be making discretionary decisions about whether to prosecute or to not, whether they can offer deferred adjudication, whether they can

offer some kind of enhancement in order to bring a young person along without them going into crime again, keeping recidivism rates low. But here's Lacey. She had no problem prosecuting black people, just not cops, right? And I know some of the black people, she had no problem prosecuting. Again, we talking about the same stuff tonight I'm trying to talk about. But my point is, we do see, with a Kim Foxx,

we do see... That really made no sense whatsoever, but... Oh, what's she talking about? What's she talking about? What is she talking about? Do you not know the laces of history as it concerns me? You talk about stuff we've talked about before and don't want to talk about now. Just go on. Keep going.

Okay. So my point is, you know what? You had to be there to get it. My point is. And clearly none of us were there. It's not color. Will you leave her alone, Roland? No, don't.

It's conscience, but color helps. That's where I'll leave it. Well, but you all, let's remember, these elections are in cities, Democratic cities, I think. They're black folks. And I think you can make the argument Roland suggested, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to other DA races all around this country. Law and order still reigns.

I think it's changing, but it's incremental. And in the end, people who run for the DA's office, they either run for balance, they still want the police union endorsement. Until the police decide that they want excellence and they want to be bigger, better, and brighter, and that they don't mind body cams because body cams keep them honest and they're not doing anything they're ashamed of, it's a long road to hoe. It just really is. But I hear you, Roland. I think you're right about that. But I think it's incremental compared to a movement or a wave under these circumstances.

I'm glad people are voting down ballot, though. I'm glad they understand after you've pushed them and pushed them and others have to vote in all elections and vote in all precincts or vote for every office that's on the ballot. So that's good, though. But I don't think that's a big dent yet. Well, Scott, I would disagree. I do think it's a way because if you look at where the progressive DAs are getting elected, it's in the places that black people actually live in.

So maybe in the middle of Des Moines, Iowa, they're still on the whole Bull Connor law and order thing. But if you look at Atlanta, where we have Keith Gammage as the Solicitor General, Fannie Willis as the DA. If you look at Baltimore, Marilyn Mosby, who decided not to prosecute minor crimes, the places where we actually live at, we're asserting actual political control there. But here-

And one second, one second. One second And one second. Hold on one second. One second. One second. No, no, no, no. And also, look, we also saw in 2020, we saw in Fairfax, Virginia. We saw in other places where popular DAs were defeated. Places, counties there in New York State as well.

So the reality is we are seeing... Well, first of all, what we're seeing is we're seeing where people are now actually challenging DAs. After Michael Brown was killed, Bob McCullough had no competition. It was in the next election of Wesley Bell ran against him. And so we actually are seeing that. that, wait a minute, if we go after the DA's job, no, no, no, if we go after the DA's job, then that has a direct impact on criminal justice because they're deciding who gets prosecuted and who doesn't.

And so what we're now seeing is you're now seeing grassroots organizations that are putting money behind progressive candidates. And so we are seeing a shift take place in this country and it has to start somewhere and it's already started. Well, maybe, but I guess- Not maybe, it is. ... step further. Not maybe, it is.

I can't deny those elections that you're talking about. Well, don't say maybe, it is. Look at how effective those progressive prosecutors are or can be because they're limited by the police union and the police culture that is still not comfortable with their consciousness. No, they're not. Scott, that's just wrong. You're not going to have success. No, no, no, Scott.

No, Scott, you're wrong. No, you're wrong, Scott. No, I'm not wrong. Scott, you are wrong. You don't. You are wrong. The job of the DA isn't solely about prosecuting cops. What we have seen by electing progressive DAs, we have seen expungement of marijuana convictions. We have

seen them decide they're not going to prosecute. Don't disagree with that. Can they be effective without the police support? Easy. They can be infected by saying you no longer going to run this office. For instance, you saw in Chicago where a prosecutor went to court and essentially gave the police version of a shooting of a 13-year-old kid. When the real story came out, Kim Foxx was like, you got to go.

So the old way of doing business where we could do whatever we want, same thing in Dallas County. John Cruz, when he became the DA there, prosecuting a policeman in conduct there as well. What we have seen, we are seeing more and more examples of progressive DAs assuming authority and willing to challenge police departments and Monique not being penalized for it. You're seeing moments, not movements. No, we actually are seeing a moment. You're seeing a moment.

Scott, a moment is when one or two are elected. A movement is when you have 5, 8, 10, 12, 15. That's a movement because that's called moving. You're not making a dent. You want to. That's your liberalism telling you. That's a movement because that's called moving. You're not making a dent. You want to. That's your liberalism telling you that this is a movement. It isn't. It's minuscule.

I'm sorry. If you go from one to 15, what the hell is that than a movement? What is that? It's not a movement. Out of 2,000 prosecutors, you got a little moment. You got 15 moments. No, Scott. It's a movement.

It's a movement when they're also being impacted in the major cities where Black folks are mass incarceration. Monique, go ahead. Thank you. So, yes. This one, Monique? Thank you. No, I'm not,

Scott. Stop it. If one prosecutor is Cook County, if one prosecutor is Cook County, if one prosecutor is Baltimore, obviously, Scott, that in other areas where nonviolent offenses can get a different ruling than they have previously, where marijuana convictions can get overturned, where people can have other options other than mandatory prison sentences because it's all in the DA or the prosecutor's discretion, then that is making a major dent in areas where it matters. So I agree with Robert and with Roland and not with you, Scott, not with you on this. Robert, go ahead. Robert, go ahead. And Monique, to your point,

I think one thing that we've seen with Marilyn Mosby and what we saw in Oregon actually is that we've started seeing prosecutors unilateral be able to decriminalize blackness. Because guess what? When the prosecutor announces, I'm not going to prosecute any marijuana charges going forward, and also you cannot use that as probable cause for a stop, that disincentivizes police to make false traffic stops that didn't escalate. They have to say, I smoke a strong scent of marijuana, and that's what made me go through a further check without a warrant. If you decriminalize sex work, for example, well, now you don't have an excuse to execute warrants on people. If you decriminalize petty offenses and say we're going to have municipal violations and community service instead of jail time, well, now we've stopped some of those police interactions that often escalate. Because what we've often seen in police shooting cases is a direct escalation from a minor misdemeanor stop for no apparent reason

into something which is a fatal event. So we stopped prosecuting people for truancy, vagrancy, lawyering. Air fresheners. Yeah, air fresheners, cruising in districts. There used to be a law in Atlanta, you couldn't cruise around five times the same area without getting pulled over by the cops. You get rid of those things,

you lower police interactions, you have real life criminal justice reform, and it's sweeping the nation. It's not isolated. Guys, I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't think it's a movement. It's a moment, if you will. Scott, define a movement.

Scott, define a movement. How many? How many is a movement? Well, ask me in a year and I'll tell you. It's okay. I don't need the three of you all to agree with me to know I'm right about this. No, you're not right. You're wrong as hell. But Scott, answer this.

You about as wrong as that damn sunlight in the middle of your face on this video. Look, Scott, what major city right now does not have a progressive DA? If you look at our major counties, if you look at L.A., if you look at Chicago, D.C., Baltimore, New York, Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Texas, Houston, all of them have major progressive DAs who are trying to push through these sorts of reforms.

So if every population center is already being led by a progressive movement, I don't see how you can say that's not a movement because, you know, Montgomery, Alabama or, Alabama, or Georgia doesn't have a progressive DA yet. I said my piece. Anything else? Got it. Hey, folks, breaking news. The House just voted 252 to 175 to create an independent commission to investigate what took place on January 6th. That number is a huge number, 252. Remember, the Republican majority leader was not going, Kevin McCarthy announced he was not going to vote for it. Even Representative Steve Scalise, he actually whipped

and said the official position of them was not to support that, but clearly there were enough Republicans who said, no, this needs to be investigated. It needs to be done. And so it's a major embarrassment to the likes of Kevin McCarthy and others that they were not able to keep their people in line to vote against this. As I said, 252 to 175, that means about 40 plus Republicans chose to vote alongside the Democrats on this particular bill here. This, folks, says a whole lot, if you will, about exactly what's going on. And if you want to understand where Republicans are in this country, all you need to do is listen to Tim Ryan, Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, who excoriated Republicans on the floor of the House as they were debating this bill.

Listen. He's recognized for 30 seconds. I want to thank the gentleman from New York and the other Republicans who are supporting this and thank them for their bipartisanship. To the other 90 percent of our friends on the other side of the aisle, holy cow. Incoherence. No idea what you're talking about. Benghazi, you guys chased the former secretary of state all over the country, spent millions of dollars.

We have people scaling the Capitol, hitting the Capitol police with lead pipes across the head and we can't get bipartisanship. What else has to happen in this country? Cops. This is a slap in the face to every rank-and-file cop in the United States. If we're gonna take on China, if we're gonna rebuild the country, if we're going to reverse climate change, we need two political parties in this country that are both living in reality. And you ain't one of them. I yield back the balance of my time. Tell us how you really feel, Congressman Tim Ryan.

Monique, this is a perfect example of Republicans being evil, despicable, shameful. And then then for for McCarthy to come out and say, well, you know, I don't support this because this needs to include a bill of Black Lives Matter and Tifa. And in fact, let's include the attack at the congressional baseball practice four years ago to make this all about attacks on political discourse. No, they were like, no, we're going to talk about January 6th. And then Congressman Benny Thompson came out and said he thinks the reason that McConnell doesn't want there to be a commission because he don't want to have to reveal the folks who were complicit in this. And this is about protecting a lot of Republicans. And now, of course, you have have Mitch McConnell who now says he will not support this January 6th commission. Your thoughts? Well, he doesn't want to have to reveal the folks who were complicit in it, including himself,

right? Because we have people even on Fox News who are interviewing the likes of Liz Cheney and playing clips, prior clips. Who was it? Scott Wallace. I can't remember who it was right now, who was interviewing McCarthy and saying, did you or did you not basically doing an attorney level cross-examination have this conversation with then President Trump on January 6th, where this was revealed and McCarthy denied it, right? But I think that they've got the goods on him. And so they know that those things are going to come out and they know that they're going to take a hit because members of their own party were involved and that they're not going to be able to defend their actions. So instead of having to do what they're going to have to do now, which is defend it in front of the American people,

they wanted to first be opposed to it and throw up every ridiculous reason they possibly could to be opposed to it, which just shows, again, they are identityless. They are amoral. They are not interested in anything that represents even the aims or the intent or the values of this country or of our Constitution. We have only one party right now and some independent folks who are doing that. These folks, no, no, no, you cannot count on them for anything. The progressive group, State of America, they dropped this 30-second spot that pretty much sums it up.

Democracy is not in crisis. We await the inauguration of Joe Biden as president. Joe Biden! Are you serious? No. That about sums it up, Robert. Well, this goes back to those good old Watergate questions. What did they know and when did they know it? Congresspeople that they saw that there were other Congress people while they were theoretically hiding out, tweeting out the locations of the Speaker of the House to the mob during the actual Capitol riots, that there were Congress people who were giving future rioters tours of the White House, even though the Capitol is on lockdown of the party is not only complicit, but probably the leaders of much of this movement. And when Mitch McConnell sees and says, well, Hawley and Ted Cruz will probably be expelled from Congress after these hearings, they realize they have to come out against it.

So this is all the more people, all the more reason for the American people to demand this type of type of commission and demand that people are held accountable for what they did, because this is nothing short of treason. The way that they have run after and tried to accuse everyone else of treason while doing it themselves they have run after and tried to accuse everyone else of treason while doing it themselves, I think is amazing and galling. And this is why it's so crucial to have this type of commission

to have the Department of Justice ready, willing, and able to prosecute. Yeah, but this is just sheer lunacy too. But this is Trump's lunacy. I mean, I don't know how the Republicans take this position, let alone challenge the election after the insurrection, go right back in, and then believe and presumably can get reelected. That's the danger in all of this. It isn't the lunacy of their position because it clearly

manifests that they could care less about the democracy, they could care less about their personal safety and the safety of others, and they could care less about the Constitution. None of them should ever say they love the country or they love democracy or the Constitution. But what's really sad and demoral, is that they can take these positions that are anti-American positions and fully expect to get reelected, Roland. I got you. That their constituency will continue

to support this lunacy. Because they believe in white supremacy. Folks, I certainly appreciate it. We're gonna leave it right there. Scott, Monique, and Robert, thank you so very much. Racial injustice is a scourge on this nation and the black community has felt it for generations. We have an obligation to do something about it, whether it's canceling student debt, increasing the minimum wage or investing in black owned businesses the black community deserves so much better i'm nina turner and i'm running for congress to do something about it A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Sometimes as dads, I think we're too hard on ourselves. We get down on ourselves on not being able to, you know, we're the providers, but we also have to learn to take care of ourselves. A wrap-away, you got to pray for yourself as well as for everybody else, but never forget yourself. Self-love made me a better dad because I realized my worth. Never stop being a dad. That's dedication.

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