Rotten Mango - #129: High School Boys Kill Hot Teacher’s Husband (Case of Pamela Smart Part 2)

Episode Date: January 9, 2022

The 16-year-old girl couldn’t stop ranting at work. Life is so short - her high school teacher’s husband had just been viscously murdered. Can you believe it? Her teacher is now a sad widow. During her rant, one of her coworkers cut her off. Wait- didn’t you tell me a few weeks ago that your 15-year-old friend was planning on murdering him? So that he could be with his teacher? Cecilia looked up and responded… “Oh, sh*t I forgot I told you that.” Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. Welcome to this week's mini-sode of Rotten Mingo. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. And let's

just jump right into it. To give you an update, you need to listen to the last episode. The last main episode, Pamela Smart, part one. This is part two. I repeat, part two. I'm just gonna give you a quick recap just in case it's been a couple of days, a quick refresh. Pamela Smart is 22 years old. She's working for the local school district as head of media. It sounds fancy, right? But pretty much she buys a video recording equipment for these high schools and she tries to teach the high schoolers to form a passion, and interest in videography. Honestly, she works pretty hard. She's married to Greg Smart, an insurance agent at MetLife and he was known to be so full

of life. He loved to ski, he loved to go on adventures in his four wheeler and they weren't financially strapped but they weren't flourishing either. I would just kind of say it as, imagine any young married couple, they're trying to save up money, they're trying to buy their first house together, start a family, all of that good stuff. So it puzzled a lot of people when Greg ended up murdered in his own home. Now if you listen to part one, we know all of Pam's weird antics. We know that she was freaking out over her contact solution when her husband was murdered just like an hour ago

Her asking when her husband's funeral was over because she was getting a little bored Yeah, yeah, yeah, and probably most alarming of all Pam was having an affair with a 15-year-old high school student of hers By the name of William Flynn a.k. Billy a little while before her husband was murdered She was in the car with him and this is where we left off They had sex for the first time, it was Valentine's Day weekend, Greg was out of town, and you know, she had invited Billy over. Why don't you come sleep over, we'll watch these explicit movies, and then I'll take you upstairs and show you the

new lingerie I bought. She was ripping him essentially, she also told him, I want to be with you, but my husband would never give me a divorce. Let's be real. Even if he did give me a divorce, he's going to take everything, every penny that I've ever made. He's going to take our dog, my beloved dog. So the only way, Billy, is if we, for us you and me, me, your high school teacher, and you, the 15 year old student,

to be together, is if you get rid of my husband. Now, Billy felt frustrated by this, but he kind of had this inkling that Pam's just frustrated too. It makes sense there, there Romeo and Juliet, there are just long lost lovers trying to connect, and the world is against them, there's star cross, the world just is out for them. Besides, there's no way Pam is serious. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. And it's not like they're breaking up because she continued to see him. She continued to have sex with her high school student. Well, I guess, right, Pam, right? In her car behind a factory, on a beach, in a room, at a park. Honestly, it sounds like she's just checking all these places off a list, okay? She's taking this kid everywhere. Billy would always tell his friends and even

another high school student named Cecilia. Pam had befriended Cecilia, so this is like her best friend, but she's 16 years old, and this is your teacher. It's the most bizarre thing ever. So Billy would tell his friends. Oh yeah, we were out there in the park last night. We almost got caught. It's not really a secret. He's kind of bragging about it. They also wrote each other these wild letters. They got each other cute little key chains that said, Payne and Bill forever,

because if you guys remember, Pam liked to spell her name, Payne, and tell people that the E is silent. So Billy tells all of his friends, oh yeah, I'm sleeping with Payne. Yeah, uh-huh, and all of them keep teasing him.

You're hot for teacher, you're hump in the teacher. Yeah, these are their words, not mine, okay? These are high school boy words. Stop humping the teacher. Bill even showed his friends their sexually explicit letters together. Some of them were intimate in other ways.

Like, it seemed like Pam was really jealous. She wanted to be in this relationship with Billi. She would even write about how Billi was seen kissing another girl in the hallway and how she felt so hard broken. But, right, how could you do something like that to me? One of Billy's friends asked him, do you love her, Billy?

Like, do you love the teacher? He said, I don't know, but the sex is great. So Billy's out here being a high school kid, okay? He's telling everyone who will listen, I'm literally fork in the teacher. You don't even understand. Let me show you this picture of the teacher in a bikini like he's getting all those cool kid points because when you're in high school

That's what these points are. He's getting all the brownie points. All the other guys are like wow Billy How'd you pull it off like can I go next like disgusting stuff? Pay them on the other hand. Well, she's trying to be a little bit more careful. If you could call it that She told Billy for his birthday. She wanted to to be a little bit more careful. If you could call it that, she told Billy for his birthday, she wanted to buy him a $500 gold necklace. Like, who? Like a gold chain? Like a gold chain, I think.

And she decided not to, because then Greg would ask where the $500 went. So this is her being cautious. So you're like, what's her not being cautious? Because that's crazy She would leave her love letters that Billy sent her just on her office desk Yeah, I mean assuming she had like her own room So nobody really came in there when she wasn't in there

She would lock it up, but she would just leave it in her office desk She wouldn't take it home with her. She wouldn't burn them She wouldn't send them to God and beg for forgiveness. Like she just left him on her desk. They would go out to lunch together and she would even drop off Billy at his friend's houses and she would openly kiss him by. What? So he'd open the door and he'd be like, by Pam and they'd make out. And the friends were like, woo woo, hump in the teacher. So it's public information at this point oh yeah like public once outside of a liquor store Pam had run into some old high school friends and she was chatting with them all the while Billy was just making out with her neck

just slobber slobber on her throat yeah I don't even do that with you never not even in private never wow. Wow great relationship okay. Their relationship sounds spectacular. The only thing that Billy really hated, the one thing that really bothered him, was that Pam would just non-stop talk about killing Greg. She never dropped that topic. Sure, she said, oh I can't be with you, but still was with him. She just would bring it up. Every single freaking day, she would tell him, we can make it look like you know, you were burglarizing the house. Greg walked in, the burglar got freaked out because you know,

they saw her face and you dress up in these dark clothes, you can hide in the condo, wait for him, I can leave the door unlocked. No, I can't do that, Pam. So she tries to entice him by saying, if you murder Greg, we can be together. And you know what the cherry on top is? Feel free to take anything from the condo that you might want. My insurance will cover it.

So romance. So romance, OK. So Cecilia was also in the loop about the murder. This other high school kid 16 years old. She thought it was crazy. She thought no way, especially knowing someone like Billy, he's not a violent kid. I mean, he's the type of kid that is very quiet, he has his weird moments.

He definitely has some childhood trauma, that's for sure, but he's not violent at all. He wouldn't even get into like a fist fight with a kid. Over Pam. So how is he gonna murder Pam's husband? That doesn't make any sense. Neither of them took her seriously. Both kids were just getting their comfort from her, so for Billy, it's like the sex, the steaman hot hub and the teacher. For Cecilia, it's like feeling important, she wanted to feel needed, listen to, and she's got this pretty friend now. Although neither kid thought it would happen, they could not keep it a secret.

They had to tell everybody. They literally went and blabbed. Cecilia works at a pizza shop after school, and she comes up to a coworker one day day and now this co-worker is a 20 year old Cecilia 16 and she says kiss one. So my 15 year old buddy of mine, yeah he's sleeping with the hottest teacher of all time, it's crazy, yeah he's oh yeah he's sleeping with this teacher and he's gonna kill her husband. So that they can be together, the teacher and the student, can you freaking believe that? I mean, I would say it's like love, right? It's kind of badass if you really think about it. Now the 20-year-old coworker just thought, okay, this girl is so weird. Like, this is some weird attention-seeking pathological liar type behavior because that's not happening. I don't even think they're dating. I know it. Okay, let alone is nobody getting murdered.

I don't think the 15-year-old is sleeping okay, let alone is nobody getting murdered. I don't think the 15 year old is sleeping with the teacher. He's probably making this crap up, like he's trying to be that cool kid. And obviously if it were true, Cecilia wouldn't be dumb enough to be telling me, right? They're not even friends. They literally just work at a pizza shop together. So she brushes it off.

This is important later. Now Bill tells his buddy JR and Pete, he's like, hey guys, guess what? I'm gonna freaking kill Greg so that I can be with him and I can move in and be the man of the house and they're like, you're stupid. You're stupid. That's the stupidest plan we've ever heard. You're freaking crazy.

You couldn't even punch one of us if we paid you to do it. Then one day, Pam decides out of nowhere. And when I say out of nowhere, like no planning, no thought process went through. Billy was just like the whole time like, I'm gonna do it, yeah for sure, I'll do it for you, but never really took any steps. She said it was time. It's gotta happen tonight. Billy's like, what? Are you talking about why tonight Pam will, this out of nowhere? Well tonight, I'm gonna be at the school board meeting. So Pam doesn't really have a lot of chances to have an airtight alibi that's very sympathetic, but they have, you know, a couple of school board meetings here and there and she felt

like if I'm there and you kill him, it won't be me and no one's going to suspect a high school kid. So for sure it's not going to be you, so now is the time. Now this is crazy because Billy has no gun, no weapon, not even a car, nor even a driver's license. The kid doesn't even have a driver's license, he's too young to get one. So how are you just gonna spring this onto him? So he says, well Pam, how do you want me to do it?

Just do it, hurry up and get it done by tonight. Now Billy thought it was so ridiculous that there's no way she actually believes that I'm gonna do it right. He just followed through it with his regular routine. He went to his buddy JR's house instead. They played video games, they ate pizza, they asked JR's mom, can I stay an extra 5 minutes please?

I know it's past curfew, because these are like 15 year olds. So then eventually he goes home, he waits for 10 p.m. to roll around because his mom needs to go to sleep so that he can use the phone and he calls Pam and says, hey, I'm so sorry, like what are you doing? I didn't do it, I couldn't get a car or a gun. He said it's okay, because he's expecting a casual response. Like, oh, well, no shirt, Sherlock. Of course you couldn't get a gun or a car, you're 15.

But instead She's so upset. She's a wild response. She's screaming at him. You don't love me If you loved me you would do this for me It's the only way that we can be together and if you loved me you would want to be with me So he's sobbing. He's like no, no, no, Pam. I care about you. You're right. Okay. You're right I'll do it. I just need some time like like I care, and she said no, you will never do it, you have no intention of doing it. I can't go on seeing you like this because we'll never be together, what's the point? What's the point of falling in love with you, my 15 year old student, and I can't be with

you in the end, it's over between us, that's it, and she hangs up. 15 year old Billy's in shock This is first true heartbreak. Oh, he was sad. He was depressed He felt like his life was over when else am I gonna ever find a pedophile Okay, that's essentially what's happening, right? Like she's not a good person I don't want to say anything positive about her, but he was really right? Like she's not a good person. I don't want to say anything positive about her, but he was really, really from this heartbreak. How will he move on? Who will love him now? It's already so awkward running into excess in the hallways of the high school, but now,

now it's my awkward, because you're excess the teacher. God, he just dreaded going to school the next day. But the next day Cecilia finds him. Hey, Billy, Pam wants you in the office. Cecilia finds him. Hey, Billy, Pam wants you in the office. So he gets escorted to Pam's office, sits down. Pam starts apologizing. Listen, don't worry. I thought about it, and you know, we still have a lot of time. I have another school board meeting later this month, and that gives me the perfect

alibi. And anyways, I think you can do it then. I think you can kill him then. What do you think? Now, this conversation woke Billy up in a sense. He felt like she, she left me. But the next day she woke up and thought to herself, no I can't not have Billy. And he made it a plan. He's going to start getting serious about killing Greg and seriously thinking about having a relationship with Pam.

He did not want her to leave. So he starts talking to JR and Pete about it. Like come on, like we got to do this. Will you guys help me kill Greg smart? relationship with Pam. He did not want her to leave. So he starts talking to J.R. and Pete about it Like come on like we got to do this Will you guys help me kill Greg smart because obviously I can't do it alone. I don't even have a car I don't even have access to guns J.R. Does it your dad like collect guns can't we just take one of his guns? Oh my gosh And then they're like what okay sit down sit down so he sits on both down and he's like hear me out

He's giving like a whole PowerPoint presentation, okay, you can take anything you want from the condo. Like anything you want, you want to take the TV, you can take Pam's TV, she's not gonna be mad, her entrance is gonna cover it. So like, we're gonna, it's like free for all, we're just going shopping, and Pam is gonna get her own condo after he's dead, like a new condo,

and we can hang out there and do drugs, she's not gonna get mad. Like, we needed a place to do drugs, you know, because we can't do it at our mom's house, because we do drugs. She's not gonna get mad like we need to replace to do drugs You know because we can't do it at our mom's house because we're 15 She's also gonna get insurance money from his death. She's said that she's gonna buy like a new sick car with it We can drive it anytime we want. She's also gonna give us rights in this new sick car I think she said she's gonna get a Camaro right and oh we can drive Greg's pickup truck and his four-wheeler And I'll give you any of the stuff like my own stuff

That you want like if you want my video game console. I'll give it to you So this boy gave a whole PowerPoint presentation at the end. He said so what do you guys say? Are you in? J.R. Looks at Pete who looks at J.R. Who looks back at Pete and then at Billy when they both say yeah Fuck no back at Pete and then at Billy and they both say, yeah, fuck no. Okay. You're insane. And if you're gonna try to pull that off, are you crazy? But Billy, every time he comes over after school, he can't stop bringing it up. He's trying to convince his friends.

There's a once in a lifetime opportunity, guys. And on one of these occasions, do you guys remember the fourth friend, Ralph? So he was part of their group, but he had gotten a girlfriend and like he was kind of pulling away, but they were at Ralph's house and Ralph wasn't there at the time, but his cousin Raymond was. And Raymond overheard all of this and said, hey, I want in. He didn't even ask questions. He was like, we're going to burglarize the place and kill the dude. I want in.

What? So who the hell is this Raymond character? Because, uh, uh, are you just like a hit? Man, what's going on? Why on earth would you want to help? And what's in it for you? So Raymond was a high school dropout. He couldn't read.

He was a tough, tough kid. He said that his dad had kept a gun somewhere around the house that they could use. To Billy is like, wait, but I'm confused. What do you mean? And he tells him, I will only do this if you follow my plan. And my plan is, I want to do the burglary and the murder by myself because you're going to be investigated.

You're sleeping with his teacher, which is the wife of the murder victim, and you just have to show me where the condo is, but you have to be the lookout. You have to let me know if someone else is coming. Billy is shaking his head up and down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is exactly what he wanted. He didn't want to murder anyone. This is perfect.

Now Pam won't be a pain in his ass, and she won't leave him. And Greg will be dead. But you know, you win some you lose some. Like I can't believe he's thinking this way. Like, who comes up with a pros and cons list to murder people in cold blood? Billy practically skipped home that night, and Jair was confused though.

Like, why did you tell him that Raymond? Why are you, I don't get it! Sure, Billy's so excited that he doesn't see how it doesn't make sense, but I see it. What are you getting out of this? And Raymond says, I'm not gonna kill Greg. Are you crazy? You think I'm gonna, no, I'm gonna go in there.

The door's unlocked. They said I could take whatever I want. So, duh, I'm gonna take whatever I want and leave before Greg is killed, before Greg comes home even. Oh, now JR does not tell Billy. So Billy thinks that a murder is gonna take place. Okay, he doesn't think that they're just gonna rob the place.

So the night that it's all planned, the night of the school board meeting, since they don't have a car, they meet up at the school. Pam had parked her car and went inside for the meeting, and the boy stuck into her car with her keys still in it, and they drove off. So the plan is, they would drive back before her meeting is over, and like disperse into the woods And she would get into her car and say bye to all her faculty members. Bye. See you guys on Monday So they get into the car they drove off to go kill Greg who would be home very very soon and they start heading down to the condo

They bought some surgical gloves on the way now oddly they were really nervous when they were trekking out So they tell the cashier. Oh, yeah, those, it's for a magic trick. Which, I mean, doesn't it just make it so much weirder if you try to explain too much? Like, when you buy a plunger, and you're like, actually, it's not clogged, it's preventative, and it was on my,

were like condoms, you're like, so they're like trying to explain what it's for, and during this car ride, you know, they get back into the car with their little surgical gloves, and Raymond just seemed very serious. Raymond's like ready to go, and Billy starts getting scared. Start hitting him in the car. This is actually gonna happen. Someone's gonna die today. I'm gonna have blood on my hands today. And in that last moment, he did not have it in him to tell Raymond, hey, maybe we should turn around. Let's pull the plug.

Nor did he have it in him to tell Pam later that, oh yeah, I just couldn't follow through with it. So he did what he thought would deter the plan the most efficiently, which is give Raymond the wrong directions. Hoping they would get so lost that Raymond would be like, oh, let's just go home It briefly worked. Raymond went in circles They couldn't find the entrance of the part of town that the smarts lived in and Billy was excited

He's like this is good news. This means we're not gonna do anything tonight and it's not my fault But then Raymond pulls into a gas station to ask where the directions are It was in the opposite way And soon enough they really were on their way. For real this time. And when they get there, they pull it with Pam's car and the lights are on inside.

Greg was already home. So Billy's like, okay, well Raymond, don't you think the plan is bad now? Like, we should just leave, right? I mean, that's the only way. We can't even burglarize the place. What are we gonna do? Slam in there, hold him hostage.

No, right, right, Raymond? Say yes, Raymond. You think it about it, and you said, okay, fine. The two of them go straight back to pick up Pam, which let me tell you, she was super pissed. So first of all, she had to wait for them to come back, but she couldn't just wait there, because everybody had seen that she had driven there,

but she didn't want people to know that she was there, but her car wasn't there. So without her, she, you there, but she didn't want people to know that she was there, but her car wasn't there. So without her, she, you know, it just didn't make sense. So she had to hide in a dark office room behind a desk to make sure nobody ran into her. I mean, she genuinely thinks that a murder has taken place. She needs a strong alibi. She can't have anything around her that's even remotely suspicious, like her car vanishing in the middle of a school board meeting. So by the time that she gets out of there, she's been cramped up in this desk, she's pissed off, and she's like, okay, it's fine, as long as it's done, and she gets into the back seat,

and she's like, so, how did it go? We couldn't do it. What do you mean? He was home. She practically starts yelling at them. Billy, you don't love me, you didn't even plan on doing this, huh? It was all a lie. You were never gonna kill him. Dang, what is her? Yeah, and then she says, did you even have any intent to kill him? Let me see the gun.

Billy says, we don't have a gun. What? Well then how the hell were you gonna kill him? We have a knife. What? Are you crazy? It's gonna leave such a mess. If you kill someone with a knife, it's very bloody. What is wrong with you guys? Are you not thinking?

Like she's pissed off not because it would be a painful slow death of her husband that she loved and married, but rather, it would make a mess. And she had just got new cushions for the couch. She literally said, I better not see one drop of blood on that new couch. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No. Who's gonna catch us? What a police.

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available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man but I love being that dirty mother f***er. So they drop off Raymond and Pam, she just unleashes the anger on to Billy. She just freaking goes all out, you freaking knew the way, don't you dare lie to me, you got lost on purpose, if you'd loved me you wouldn't do this because you want to be with me. If you don't want to be with me just tell me right now. I don't want to get strong along if you're never gonna do it, I want to be with you, but obviously you don't want to be with me. If you don't want to be with me, just tell me right now. I don't want to get strong along if you're never going to do it. I want to be with you, but obviously you don't want to be with me. So Billy, he's like sobbing. He's like hyperventilating and he just says,

no, no, no, okay, you're right. I'll do it. And instantly her attitude changes. And she says, okay, wait, you know that I love you, right? I have another meeting on May 1st. You have to do it then because it's the last meeting of the year. Okay, but I love you. Like you know you can do it on May 1st, right? I believe in you. The next day Pam complained to Cecilia about how dumb Billy was for not murdering her husband in cold blood. Yeah, frickin idiot sleaze days, you know? Like what? Meanwhile, Greg is confiding in his friends. He just- he felt alone. He felt alone in his marriage

and he was confused. He wanted to settle down and have kids, and Pam just did not want that. She just wanted to live like she was still in high school. She- it felt weird. It's like she doesn't want to grow up with him. They were always fighting, she came home late all the time with no explanation. I'm always eating dinner alone and it's just sad, it's lonely. Anytime I ask where she's going or what she's doing because let's be real. Her job doesn't really require her to work long, late meetings all the time. It's a pretty set routine. She never has a good reason.

That can't be a good sign, right? The only thing that he ever looked forward to was going to Atlantic City with his friends and family, and it was actually on one of these trips that Greg told his friend, I had an affair, a one night stand. And now all Pam does is fight about it. She won't stop bringing it up. Now Greg seemed mad not because she kept bringing it up but more on the fact that he was certain that she was treating on him too. So he felt like he had apologized for months and months and months and she's still hanging it over his head when he is so confident that she too is cheating. So it feels kind

of I listen I don't know anything about this field of marriage but I'm sure it's a very confusing feeling because like yeah you feel guilty you did you did mess up first. But like now you're like, wait a minute, I feel like you're cheating on me. So it's confusing. And then remember Terry, the girl that he always hung out with before meeting Pam, the one that honestly they had an almost relationship with Greg, but he was too much of a player. And it felt like a cute love story in the making. Well, married Greg took her out to dinner one night and said, I'm getting a divorce. Is she still single? She's still single, yes. And he said, I'm getting a divorce. I feel like coming. I know it's bound to happen. And after it's all said and done, I want

to take you on a date. She said, okay. And he said, you know, I love you, right? She said, I love you too. They made plans to have breakfast on Sunday, which was their routine when they were best friends. Every Sunday, he would come over and they would have breakfast together. And that was one of the last times she would see Greg alive. Meanwhile, Pete and JR, who always said that the plan to kill Greg was super dumb, well they decided to help Billy out after all. Some say it's because they wanted more excitement in their lives. Some say it's probably because they wanted to rob Pam's place.

I'm not sure. Maybe it was just to shut Billy up because some say that he knew. Everybody knew that Billy would never do it. So what if you just go along with it and you can stop begging you and just asking you not to stop pleading and wanting, please can you do this with me, right? Maybe that's why they were also getting paid $500 each and payments of $50 a week by Pam, allegedly, that's what Billy said. She's going to pay you guys $500 each, $50 a week. Now Pete would later say it's because he was scared that Billy would get in trouble

because Billy never really does anything right. So Pete wanted to say it's because he was scared that Billy would get in trouble because Billy never really does anything right. So Pete wanted to help Kill him because if he was there at least they would get away with it. Which what the fork is that? Pete also mentioned that he had always wondered what it's like to Kill a man. Ironically, Billy and J.R. were already playing Killers. They were enrolled in a class called Crime and Punishment and basically it's like a makeshift murder trial.

So Billy and J.R JR were the murderers. On the stand, they had prosecutors trying to prove their guilt, they had their own defense attorneys trying to defend them. I mean I guess this is good practice because they're going to have a real murder trial for the murder of Greg Smart. Wow. So here's how the kids were planning all of this would go down. This is their foolproof plan, okay? JR would supply a gun as backup. His dad's gun.

They weren't gonna really use it though because you know, they had already planned to slit Greg's throat. Like that's what they had planned. Knives are harder to trace. If anything, they can even grab a knife from Greg's own kitchen. To make it harder, wipe off their fingerprints. Oh, this is like crazy. What they did is, you know, those surgical gloves that they bought? They taped each finger before putting it into the glove. Oh, this is like crazy. What they did is, you know, those surgical gloves that they bought? They taped each finger before putting it into the glove. Okay. To not get any fingerprints.

So if they grab a knife from Greg's own kitchen, it's going to make it even harder. The gun is just back up, just in case things got a little wild, they need to threaten people. Side note, there was a brief moment where the boys had found someone to sell them a gun. You're like, how? They're 15, okay? Well, they had a drug dealer, which in mind, like these kids do be snorting lines of cocaine after a debate team like they were those kids, right? Their drug dealer offered to sell them an untraceable gun for $300.

Great news. Guns are easier, I guess, so they tell Pam, hey, great news, we can get a gun. How great is that? And she said what okay? So you don't have to use the knife. I mean that's good because guns are less messy. This is perfect. How much is it? $300 Do you know how much money that is I might as well buy a new couch instead Buy a new what couch instead?

Just use the knife. I'm not spending that money You what? Couch, instead. Just use the knife. I'm not spending that money. Now on to the plan. Pam would leave the back door of her condo unlocked for the boys to sneak in. She would have an airtight alibi at the school board meeting, which by the way, everyone was confused why she was there.

There was nothing regarding her department, so most people would show up with their agendas or their plans and they would propose it to the school board and try to get funding for it. Pam, you don't need to be there. Literally, people for it, Pam, you don't need to be there. Literally, people told her, hey, you don't need to be at the school board meeting, by the way, and she just showed up anyway. She was like, nah, I wanna be there for a good sport, you know?

And so when she gets home though, that's when her real job starts to give the performance of a lifetime. JR is the getaway driver. He's gonna drop them off, drive around, then pick them up at the designated spot. He's also going to supply his dad's gun. Then we have Raimi. He's still involved. This Raiment, his nickname is Raimi. So Raimi, he's still involved, but not as involved. He will be in the car as well,

but his main job is to sell the things that they steal from Greggs. You know, they want cash, so they need to flip it. And he's the most well-connected in that aspect. Then Pete and Billy, they're gonna be the ones to flip it and he's the most well connected in that aspect then Pete and Billy they're gonna be the ones going inside of the house robbing and killing they were gonna sneak through the back doors and Then put the couple's dog in the basement This is what Pam had asked because she didn't want the dog to be hurt Then they were gonna yeah, she said put the dog in the basement

Or she also didn't want the dog to run out if the door was open. Then feel free to ransack the place, take jewelry, she even moved the jewelry to be easier to find for them. Like she would put it out on her dresser. Anything you find is fair game. You can keep it. Oh, and keep the lights off. This is what she said.

Greg is a wimp. If he sees the lights are on, he won't go inside because he knows someone's there. I don't care if you stab him or shoot him, but whatever you do, remember, just do not get blood on that sofa. So is go time. Piedenbilly jumped out of the car, J.R. dropped some off. They sneak into the apartment and they throw the dog into the basement.

Literally, they said that they took a moment to laugh while they heard it thump thump thump down the stairs. They start trying to ransack the place and they did not find much and they started talking about how to subdue Greg. You know when he comes in what do we do? The plan was Pete is the biggest so he would hide behind the door. Billy would stand near the stairs hidden. When Greg would come in Pete would pounce on him. Billy would turn off the lights because they're assuming that Greg's gonna turn on the lights when he walks in. Shut the door and then kill him. So Greg walks in, he doesn't turn on the light,

he calls for his dog. No response. The whole room, the whole place, it felt like there was like a chill in the air. It was eerily silent for seconds, but it felt like decades. And then he attacked. Pete punched Greg in the face.

Billy jumped up, slammed the door shut. Pete grabbed Greg by the hair, slammed the back of his head against the wall and said, get down on your knees. He had Greg by the hair in one hand and a knife in the other. Greg kept saying, don't hurt me, what do you want? He said, just shut up, just shut up. and a knife and the other. Greg kept saying, don't hurt me, what do you want? He said, just shut up, just shut up. Where's the dog?

What did you do with my dog? Your dog is fine. Nobody wants to hurt your dog. Hey, what's that on your left hand? That ring looks expensive. Give it to me. And this is when Greg says, I can't give this to you. My wife would kill me. Oh my gosh. The boys let

it go and instead they ask for his wallet. There was only about five dollars in cash in there. They took it out, dropped his wallet with all of his credit cards onto the ground. Now Pete had the knife and his whole plan was to slit Greg's throat, but it was too hard he couldn't do it. He starts panicking. We have to do something quick though. Billy, get the gun. And do it, please, you have to do it. We gotta go. So Billy gets up, grabs the gun, puts it to Greg's head.

He stood there for what felt like a hundred years. And he said, God, forgive me, and squeezed. Greg dropped to the ground. He had been shot in the head and the boys were terrified I mean their ears were bringing they ran out of there as fast as they could they ran out the back into the field He headed for the shopping plaza Billy had the gun Pete had the knife that he dropped into the field JR met them. He was the getaway driver and they just jump in and y'all go go go we did it go Now JR thought that they were kidding right but as he's driving But as he's driving Billy's voice there was just something in it

He just kept saying I can't believe I just killed a guy. Oh my god. Feel the gun. It's still hot Peacomplained Billy almost blew his hand off and Billy said wait, shit Shit, we dropped one of our gloves in the field. That had our prints probably, what do we do? They decided not to go back and it didn't really matter because the police later found it and ruled it trash. They didn't even take it into evidence. JR said on the drive home that his friends are talking about all,

like, all they talked about was how they murdered someone and he did not feel anything. He said he just wanted to get away with it, because he didn't really know Greg, so it didn't bother him. They asked, you don't feel sad for the end of Greg's life, and how is that possible? No, not really, I didn't even know the guy. Pete said Billy wouldn't shut up about the power that he felt in that moment. Billy on the other hand claimed that he doesn't remember much from this car ride, but he doubt said he would have been bragging about it. It's just not his personality.

The boys drove to Ramy's house, and they all look through the stuff that they stole, and pretty much most of it was costume jewelry, like I'm talking Claire's jewelry, CDs, completely worthless stuff. They had what looked like gold looking jewelry, but it was all plated. Everything that they had taken was junk. They were upset that they had left the stereo in the TV gold looking jewelry but it was all plated. Everything that they had taken was junk. They were upset that they had left the stereo in the TV so truly it was just all junk. But for some reason, they weren't even pissed about it. Which leads me to believe maybe they killed for the fun of it or just I don't know. The next day they go to school where everyone is informed of what happened.

Word starts getting out that Mrs. smart's husband was murdered. I mean, this is a small town and on top of that, this is a town with no crime and on top of that, a teacher's husband was killed. So of course, you know, people are gonna be talking about it. What's crazy is that after school, Sicily goes to work and she's still reeling from the shock and she tells her co-worker.

Her co-worker is like, hey, what's wrong? What's with like, why aren't you focusing? You literally burnt a pizza. She goes, oh, sorry. My teacher's husband was killed in like a break in. A burglary got wrong. It's just so sad. Wait. Did it? Did it? You tell me your friends were planning on killing your teacher's husband? And Cecilia looks at her, eyes wide and goes, oh shit, I forgot I told you about that. Oh my god. They're literally 16. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Cindy, the pizzeria worker, doesn't tell anyone. She thought that these kids were so dumb that they will get caught with or without her involvement She didn't want to get involved in call the cops. It wasn't until about two weeks later She finally said something not to a police officer. She was hanging out with some friends And she's telling this crazy story. You'll never believe what happened that work. Oh my god So this 16 year old girl like the four weeks ago. This is what she said Then two weeks ago remember what was on the news the murder of Greg's man., anyway, she told me that was, that was gonna happen and then it happened, right? So she's like, wow, isn't that crazy? It's a wild story.

One of the women that was there was like, we should have the police. No one's gonna, no one, no, dress me. So she goes home and her name is Louise. I love Louise, okay? She's a goddamn hero. And she's the one that called to say, hello, I want to remain anonymous because I'm terrified, but the person that knows more about this is a minor named Cecilia. The wife of the man had arranged it all. She planned it all. Another kid that might know a lot is Billy. They're both in her high school. So remember that

phone call, the one that kind of broke this case open? Yeah, that was Louise. So this is when the police start, you know, kind of tailing Pamela and the kids and they even ask Bill smart to tell them everything Pam is doing. Her mood, where is she going? Who is she with? Everything, you have to let us know. Now, she was doing some weird things. She had bought a new car with her husband's insurance money and she took her high school boyfriend to the dealership to pick out a car. Like who, oh, not only did she take Billy, she took Billy's friends. She took the whole gang. The whole gang, the whole high school gang.

As a teacher, oh, it gets weirder. So they're all standing around, right, waiting for the sales guy, and she sees a bowl of lollipops, like a complimentary lollipops, and she turns to Billy, and she says, hey, go get me a lollipop in front of his friends. Now of course, this guy's 15.

He's like, I'm not gonna do what you tell me to do in front of my friends, like you're trying to embarrass me, like, I'm a man. No girl can tell me what to do, so he ignores her. She didn't care in that moment. She didn't ask him again. She just went and got herself a lollipop later that night. She dropped everyone off, but Billy and said, out of nowhere, you don't love me. If he did, you would have gotten that from me. Got what? The lollipop. You would have gotten

the lollipop from me if you loved me. Billy was like, what? I just killed a man for you. I'm so confused. And then later Pam did her third interview with Bill Spencer. Remember that reporter that she was kind of, she called that reporter? Yeah, this time he was really taken by her emotion. Well, not necessarily her emotion, but her stories, okay? Like she was just playing that grieving widow. She had so many heartfelt things about how she feels like she's

moving on because Greg would want that for her. It was really emotional, but this time he's thinking a little bit more clearly and he interviewed her in her new condo that she moved into and he couldn't help but notice that there was zero reminder of Greg in her new condo. Zilch, no photo, nothing, no tribute, nothing, bizarre, bizarre. Meanwhile, Ralph, do you guys remember him? One of the four Musketeers, the one that wasn't involved in the murder? So he's at home, the whole gang's over, and he had kind of heard these rumors at school recently, that the boys were involved in the murder. I mean, he never really thought anything of it and

he just kind of brought it up. He was like, hey, I heard a rumor that you guys killed Greg Smart. That's freaking crazy, right? I mean, it's just because you're sleeping with Pam, which is why the whole rumor started that you killed Greg Smart. But, and they're like, you want to know everything? What do you mean? What do I need to know? What did you do? And they are so excited. They tell him every step of their plan exactly how they did it and All of it and he was so shocked so Disgusted the boys quickly realized this guy's not on our side Ralph is actually angry with us He's freaking pissed. He's screaming. Why would you ever do something like that? What made you think it's okay to take a guy's life? Like, you don't even feel bad?

But that puts him at the ender. Uh-huh. And they said, Why? This is what they do in the army. They kill people. But, no, it's not! Yes, it is. Besides, he's worth more dead than alive. We're all getting $500 each. And Rolf's just shaking his head like, this is not okay.

Okay, well you're not going to say anything, right? I don't know, but I know that I can't not say anything. The boys were panicked. They were so pissed at Ralph for not supporting their murder and potentially even considering going to the cops that when he was walking outside they grabbed him from the back smashed him up against a tree. He blacked out when he woke up he was being choked by his friends. So he breaks free, he rushed to JR's parents house and told them that the boys used their gun to kill someone.

Greg smart. Honestly, the parents didn't really believe him. He was mumbling, he was freaking out, and he didn't really make any sense He wasn't being coherent, but they did bring the gun into the station and said we don't know for sure But it may have been used in a murder. Maybe you contest it Maybe you can find out what bullet was used now when this news gets out the boys start freaking out The murder weapon was found. This is all over the news including Pam She's freaking the fork out especially because she was currently in bed with Billy!

Literally! So she decides we gotta get our story straight. She tries to get the whole squad together to start planning how to get away with it, but some of the boys had other thoughts. Pete confessed to his mom, told her everything about the murder, how it happened, why they did it, the whole plan, and he told her I need to run away, I need to go on the run. Listen, I don't know what this feels like, but I imagine I wouldn't do what she does. She was shocked, she was disgusted, rightfully so, but she gave him everything that she had. And her car and said get out of town. What? So the boys take her car, they start heading south into Connecticut.

Meanwhile Ralph is driving down to the station with his dad and he starts telling the cops everything the kids told them. Now Ralph's cousin is Raymond and I think that the parents are talked because Raymond soon came in afterwards and he confessed to his light involvement. He said that he was there in the car, he said that he was trying to sell the things but he didn't kill anyone, he wasn't in the apartment, but he was there. Technically and he knew. Now the cops, they're getting excited to close this case to get justice,

but the three boys, they're making the escape of their lifetime, and their parents highly traceable car. They make it all the way to Massachusetts. That was their game plan. They're not passing through Massachusetts. They're not going south of the border, They're not trying to leave the United States No, they're going to Massachusetts to hide out more like hang out, okay? I really wonder if the true gravity of this situation ever hit these kids because it sure doesn't freaking feel like it in Massachusetts it was there when Pete's dad gets a hold of him Now Pete's dad has no idea why skipped town only Pete's mom knows. So Pete's mom just said, oh he's gone.

He's taken the car, doesn't say anything about skipping town, doesn't say anything about the murder. So Pete's dad calls them and said, why the hell are you in Massachusetts? If the car isn't back here by 9.30pm, I'm calling the police and I'm reporting it stolen. What in the world? So the boys, they go back into the car and Pete says guys I gotta go home my dad's mad And they drive all the way back home. I Think this just goes to show I'm not excusing anything that they did I don't like these kids, but I mean this is our mindset. This is how young they are

They stop being on the run. They stop being soon to be fugitives because daddy threatened them and they went back home One person who never thought about leaving town was Pam. She said that the boys are smart at all, they're going to try to pin it on Ramy and Ralph Welch. They are older, they are bigger troublemakers so it just makes sense. She asks Cecilia, Pam, to spend the night and she wants to be alone. So she asks the high school kid to come over to her condo. I'll even pick you up, she said.

And when they were heading back to her place, cruising down in our Honda, they were surrounded by cops. I'm talking to all the manpower you can get in that local area. Every department was there. It looked like they were chasing down FBI's most wanted. I think they most likely believed that the boys were in there armed and reckless with a gun. The cops let Pamela go once they realized that the boys were not there. No way.

So they could put the boys at the scene, but they couldn't put Pamela. Of course, they're suspicious of Pamela, but there's nothing they could do to arrest her yet. So they let Pamela and Cecilia go. Pamela was not arrested that day, and the boys they go back into town. So now J.R.'s back home and he sits down with his parents and he tells his dad everything. We used your gun to kill Greg Smart because Billy was having an affair with Pam. It's dead silent. And JR's dad screams at him. Well, it's a good thing she didn't gang bang all of you. What would you have done then, huh? Wipe out the whole town? The kids' parents were scrambling.

A lot of them wanted the kids to confess to the cops, but they loyered up and their lawyers, quote, talk some sense into them. Billy's mom told him to get rid of anything in his room that looks bad or is connected to Pam's smart. So we took all of her love letters, her bikini pictures, her little Pam and Billy key chain. It gave it all to his mom to throw away.

Can you imagine being that mom and like reading through this craziness? The cops are making their rounds calling the parents to talk to the kids including Cecilia. So Mrs. In, Cecilia's mom calls Pam and says Hey, do you know where Cecilia is? She said she was hanging out with you and Pam says no after the sleepover I dropped her off at this friend's house. Wait, why do you need to get in touch with her? Oh, will the detectives just call? Did they want to ask her some questions? They did? What did they want?

I don't know, they just wanted to know if I could bring her over to the station. Look, why don't you just let me take her over there? I can go find her, and I'll take her. No, Pam, it's fine. I will take her. I want, it's fine. I will take her. I want to know what's going on. And she just starts screaming at the top of her lungs. Pam, don't take her over there till I get there.

Tell me. Let me go with you. We can all go together. Promise me you were not going to take her over there unless I'm there. I'm a victim here. I have a right to know everything that the police know and they're not telling me anything. I'm getting tired of being treated this way and I wanna know what's going on. Just please, meet us there.

Cecilia's mom is like, if you want to meet me there, that's fine, but I'm picking Cecilia up and I'm going to the station. She hangs up. Now Pam was at her condo, which is three times further away from the station than Cecilia was, But she was already there when Cecilia and her mom pulled up. And she immediately threw herself onto Cecilia and

said, I'm not sure why they're calling you again but don't panic, I'm sure it's nothing big. They do this with everyone. She marched into the station and she found the nearest officer and said, I have a right to know what's going on. I'm not being treated like the victim that I am and the police are not telling me anything. And Captain Jackson, the one on this case, is nothing but an asshole. I have a right to know what's going on. I'm not being treated like the victim that I am and the police are not telling me anything And Captain Jackson the one on this case is nothing but an asshole In the station they take Cecilia and her parents into an interrogation room and Pam was nervous The police tell Cecilia we know that you lied during your first interview

You said that you knew nothing, but we know that you know She kept denying but it was clear that she knew something. She was nervous. She kept looking at her watch. She seemed scared. Her attitude was typical, annoying teen that couldn't be bothered, but there was so much on the line. A man was dead.

So, Captain Jackson gets fed up and he throws his hands onto the table and says, I'm getting tired of listening to this shit. We don't need your smart ass attitude. Tell us the truth. And Cecilia's mom on the side says, now wait a damn minute. I don't mind you asking her questions in a normal tone of voice,

but I'm not going to put up with this shit. I will tell you right now, just in case you forgot, she's a minor. She's only 16 years old, and I'm not going to sit here and listen to your smart ass. What's more is,

I don't think Cecilia is going to answer any more questions today. Maybe I'd be better off getting an attorney. So Jackson, Captain Jackson says, man, can I just talk to you outside please? And he tells Cecilia's mom outside to look. Please don't get upset about the way that I was talking to her in there. It's a role, it's all in act.

From what info we got so far, we don't think that Cecilia has done anything wrong. Or at least to me, she seems like a completely normal, typical, teenage kid, but I think that there's something that she knows that she's not telling us. Cecilia's mom calmed down a bit and she agreed, but she said, that's enough for today. I kind of want to talk to her at home first. And as soon as they left that interrogation room, Pam jumped onto Cecilia. What happened? Well, what's going on?

Nothing. They just asked me the same questions as before. Pam was frantic. She drove home and she called Captain Jackson. Screaming. She was pissed. Why did you stop my car the other day? What's going on with the investigation? Why don't you tell me things? So now Pam is starting to feel the heat. She's starting to sweat bullets and so are the other boys. They all gathered at JR's house waiting for that knock on that door to be arrested. Their parents were coming together to find out what to do with them. They sat around the table and said, do you guys want to talk first or cry first?

And all of them cried. They thought about shipping the boys off to Canada, Mexico, but they can't live like that forever. They can't live on the run, and none of us even have those types of funds. And then they got the call The warrant is out bring them into the station The moms they open the door The kids were playing video games You have to come with us their warts

All the boys peacefully went in except for Billy Flint. He didn't mind being arrested He said I'll go I'll go to the station, be arrested, whatever. But I need to go to the movie theater first because I bought these tickets to see a movie. And if I'm going to prison, I'm gonna need a refund. On my movie tickets, because I'm not gonna make it, because I'm going to prison. You kidding me?

No. What are you gonna do when you go to prison? Yeah, I don't know. But you wanted that damn refund, okay? So the boys there arrested. And at first they were charged with juvenile delinquency And then later charged as adults for first-degree murder for Billy and a complicit to first-degree murder for Pete and J.R Pam heard about their arrest on the news, but because they were minors, no names were released yet

So she starts panicking. She tries to call the cops who refused to update her She calls Billy's mom, who tells her, Yeah, Billy, Pete and J.R. have been arrested, and I have no other words for you other than, I think you should lawyer up. And she slammed the phone down. Pam spent the next entire day calling everyone. Literally everyone, random friends from high school.

She's just panicked at this point. Do the police even have strong evidence? Like, did they ever even, do you think the police found stolen goods on them or something? Like, do you think the kids are gonna confess or something? What do you think? Pam would even call Officer Jackson super dramatic, okay? She said, I'm scared. I know these kids.

Do you think I'm in danger? And he was shocked. And he said, no. But how do you know though? Because I know. And so do you. Pam's mom was completely unaware of her daughter's involvement. She was so happy that her son and lost killers were caught, that she actually attempted

to hug Captain Jackson to thank him for getting justice. She said, oh my God, you can't believe how relieved we are. Thank you so much. And he said, yeah, man, right. But there's more work to be done. Pam went to the press and it had leaked that she knew the boys that were arrested because she had taught them and she told them

that she was sick and indevastated by the arrest. I want to be happy because they caught someone, but I don't have enough information in my own mind that they are guilty. If you want to say anything about how I'm feeling right now, you could say, I'm very, very shocked. I guess you could say they were good kids. I mean, I can't really say anything else about them because I work for the school district. I could lose my job.

That's the last thing I need right now is to lose my job. She did take a few days off work, she had a trial to attend, not her own, or at least not yet, but it was about a hit and run. So she goes to that. Meanwhile Cecilia is starting to sweat. Captain's Jackson's words are getting turned. She said, every night I was in bed, I would get up like every five minutes when a car pulled into the neighborhood, thinking that the police were coming to get me. She was terrified. She knew that murder was wrong and she didn't wanna betray the only person

that was there for her, which was Pam, but I mean, her view of Pam was also starting to shift. She said, Pam's lover, Billy, was in jail and she didn't even care. So how would Pam ever care about me? We're just friends. If I took my life because of what I knew and what was haunting me too much,

I feel like Pam would be relieved if anything, because it's just one less person who could tell. She freaked out when she turned on the news and heard the police were about to arrest another female in connection with the murder. So Cecilia's thinking, huh? Me? So she says, Mom, can I talk to you in the bedroom?

Bill and Pam were having an affair. You've got to be kidding me. No, no, they were mom. Well, how on earth would you know that? Cecilia spilled her guts and Mrs. Eaton called the police and she told them everything. She also agreed to wire up and to be wire tapped so that she could call Pam and try to get her to, you know, admit to her guilt and she staged all of this. They huddled around Cecilia's kitchen, but almost immediately since Pam gets on that phone, she dodged all the questions.

She denied any affair with Billy. Cecilia said, listen, the dairy police called me from the car phone. They're on the way here now to question me again. I don't know what to do. Answer their questions. Well, what if they ask me about you and Bill and the affair and you still want me to deny it? Well, we weren't having an affair.

What? Yeah, we weren't having an affair. OK, whatever. I mean, this whole thing is just so stupid. I just wish you guys would have gotten divorced instead, you know. You, you wish what? That you guys got a divorce instead. It would have been so much easier than this.

What? Okay. Well, anyways, all right. Um, I guess I'll talk to you later then. It's like so obvious. Yeah. But it's not evidence. Yeah, exactly. And the call was seven minutes long, nothing came out of it. But then a minute or two later, Pam calls Cecilia back again. And this time she's more talkative. She still doesn't admit to anything, but it's clear that they're trying to manipulate her. Like, Pam is trying to manipulate Cecilia into being silent. She says, sorry, Cecilia.

I know that you're probably being hounded by reporters and all this thing you have to do with the cops and constantly being questioned. You know the easiest way is just to say no comment. They'll leave you alone. And I just, I feel so bad. I know. I wish there was something I could do about it, but I hope you feel better. And she hung up.

I mean, Pam was in a pickle, okay? She needed the public to know that she was happy that the boys were caught justice for her husband, but she can't let the boys think that she dropped them because they would turn on her, so she started doing strange things. She put together a mixtape for Billy and gave it to his mom and asked for her to bring it to prison, and there were a bunch of songs on there called Hot for Teacher. Yeah, Hot for Teacher! She wrote on a piece of paper,

please give this to Bill. When he listens to it, I want him to know that it's true friends think of him all the time. Then they had Cecilia wear a wire, the police wear a wire to meet Pam in her office. And the first time Pam was really nervous, Pam had heard a rumor that Cecilia was talking

about the murder with high school students. So she was very careful, but it was clear Pam wanted to, you know, kind of manipulate her to stay in her corner. So she talked about how she was so stressed, she was almost hospitalized, and she says, and I quote, I think I've been a very good friend to you,

and that's the thing. Even if you send me to the fucking slammer, or you don't, or if anybody sends me to jail, it's gonna be you. And that's the big thing, like, what does it come down to? What good is it gonna do to you sending me to jail? Because if you think that's gonna be the end of your problems, like if you confess, your whole family is gonna be like,

well, why didn't you do anything about it if you knew about the murder? How could you have lived like that? The newspapers are gonna be all over you. Like, how could you have no about it? But why didn't you stop it? You're gonna have to be on a witness stand, millions of times.

I mean, it's kind of crazy, right? Besides, I'm worried about JR. I think sooner or later, JR is gonna turn on everyone too. JR? Yeah. I mean, I kind of feel bad for him because he didn't really do anything. He was just the getaway driver.

Don't you think, Pam? But you have to remember this whole thing that he did. They're fucking old enough. They're old enough to make their own decisions. Yeah. Like they did this all. I did not force anybody to do anything. They made their own decisions. Yeah, I mean, at least you didn't pay them. Yes, no. I mean, I didn't pay them. They made their own decisions, you know? Like, remember that throughout the whole thing, don't even feel bad. Like, I feel bad and I know it's hard, but they made up their own minds. I don't know what happened in my house. I don't know who was there or who was waiting in the car. I don't know any of that. But that was that. The police listened to it and it wasn't enough.

They had to wire Cecilia up one last time. So they met in the parking lot and they talked in Cecilia's car and I guess maybe the whole area of it being in the car, this time Pam went in. She was running her mouth like a track star. She said, if you tell the police the truth, you're probably going to be arrested and even if you're not arrested, you're going to be sending Bill J.R. Pete and me to fucking jail for the rest of our lives and unfortunately, that's just the situation we're in. And that's the thing you're going to.

I mean, I don't know. All I have to say is I feel... I feel you. Because I'm afraid one day you're gonna come in here and be wired by the fucking police and I'm gonna be busted. And then she kind of gave her a hug to look for wires. One day you're gonna come in here and be wired by the fucking police and I'm gonna be busted And then she kind of gave her a hug to look for wires. She's actually an inch away from a wire And she said well if you ever are wired give me some sort of signal if you ever come in here when you're wired Okay, sure. Should I like wink or something? Yeah, all right or go like that and she's like making we don't know what you did right

God, I'm just I'm pissed if Raven and Ralph hadn't run their mouths, this would have been a perfect murder. This is um, this is Cecilia. Saying that, trying to be like, hey, aren't you pissed? Right. Because they set everything up. Yeah, no shit. To look like a burglarie just like you said, Pam. Yeah, no shit, so it's not my fault, I f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f- a role. He doesn't want to go to jail for the rest of his goddamn fucking life. He's gonna turn against Simon. He's gonna blame me. But you see, I never said the word. I never said words like JR, I'll pay you to kill Greg. No, well, first of all, you didn't offer

to pay him, right? No. So he's not gonna say that you offered to pay him. He's gonna say that you knew about it before it happened, which is the truth, right? Well, so then I have to say no I didn't. And either the police believed me or they believed him. Now the police got what they wanted. They headed to get an arrest warrant. And she was arrested August 1st. They told her when they knocked on her door. Hey Pam, we have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that we've solved the murder of your husband, the bad news is you're under arrest. Shut up. For murder.

Wow. At her bond hearing Pam said, I spent the last 12 days behind bars, incarcerated for a crime I didn't commit. If the court is worried about me fleeing, just know I'm not going anywhere because I want to be here during trial to prove that I'm innocent. She was held without bond and charged with accomplice to first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, witness tampering, and Pam hated, prays that she complained to her mom all the time.

God! Mom, I'm the only one here with all my teeth. She also lost 10 pounds because she hated prison food and she she said, if I die at least I'll be skinny. What the heck? Allegedly while Pam was in prison, she asked someone to find her a hitman to get rid of Cecilia, and was willing to pay $1,500, but also said, do you take credit card? She was gonna use her mom's credit card, so she was later further charged with criminal

solicitation to commit murder and tampering with a witness that she pled not guilty to. And she said in court, I'm gonna drop dead if someone can get indicted on the word of an incarcerated individual. I mean, what is this justice system coming to? Okay, Pam, then no one's gonna believe anything you say at your own trial because you're an incarcerated individual. It's like so what the heck. She also came forward to the price and to an author of Teach Me To Kill and she said, I have a picture in my mind of the killer. So she's saying that the boys are being falsely accused just like her and they're being coerced into confessing because they're so young. And she said, you

know, like this drug addicted scum with like long greasy hair, that's what I pictured the killer to be, not these little kids. So when the trial came, Pete decided to cut a deal with the prosecutors. Then JR followed, and then Billy. In exchange, they would plead guilty to second-degree murder, they would have recommended reduced sentences, 40 years in prison, 12 taken off if they had good behavior, J.R. would get 30 years in prison with 12 deferred for good behavior. They had to testify against Pam.

And not too long after that they pled guilty and they took their reduced sentences, they were caught in the courthouse giggling, laughing, and chewing gum, and slapping their hands, showing no regret whatsoever. When Billy did take the stand though, he was in tears. He was incredibly remorseful. The court even showed off all the bikini pics that Pam sent to Billy, which the print shop had a lot of copies of leftover, and they later marketed themselves.

Revealing smart photos were done right here, get custom processing now. They're selling them? Uh, no, just saying we're the ones that processed it. But is that not crazy? Yeah. And then Pam took the stand and this was the day that everybody was waiting for. She said that her marriage with Greg was rough, she cheated on her and she was devastated.

She had an affair with Billy because she was just so hurt by his, his infidelity. And she admitted to it but conveniently, Billy claims it was just so hurt by his infidelity and she admitted to it, but conveniently, Billy claims it was when he was 15. She claims it was after his 16th birthday. Now that's important because in Pam's version, she won't be charged with felonia sexual assault. She claimed she tried to break off the affair but Billy kept threatening to kill himself and when she finally did end the relationship, Billy killed Greg in a jealous rage.

What about that incriminating conversation with Cecilia? I wanted to get more information out of her. I thought if I played along with Cecilia and I lie and I bullshed it, it would work and she would tell me what the kids know. She's just coming up stories left and right. Yeah. Wow. coming up stories left and right. Yeah. Wow. Pam was found guilty on all charges. She was stunned.

She, her words in court after her verdict came out with, I can't believe Billy. He took Greg's life and now he's taking mine. Then during sentencing, Bill Smart gave an impact statement about how his son was murdered by his daughter-in-law and Pam upstaged him by jumping up and screaming, your honor, I can't handle this! I don't have to listen to this anymore. Pam's mom got up from the crowd and yelled,

when does your vengeance end? To Bill Smart, like you're being so evil and vindictive. One must you stop getting your revenge. Pam was sentenced to life without parole. She did appeal her sentence, she loved the media attention that she was getting, she told 2020, ABC 2020, in 2020. That wasn't that funny. I don't know why I giggled, okay?

She said, I've been portrayed as an ice princess, a black widow, a killer, and none of those things could be further from the truth. I wanted to be a mother, and now I've lost all my years, and it seems like the whole world is passing by, and you know, I'm still here. She is 53 years old, still in prison. She's filed numerous appeals, lost each one, and Billionion Peach they both served 25 years, they were paroled in 2015, JR did 15, paroled in 2005, Raymond served 12 years paroled in 2003, and Billy said, if I could ask Pam one thing, it would be if she ever really loved me. In hindsight that might not seem like a very big deal to most people, but knowing that she had me do this and that I did go through with it. And if she never really loved me, that would probably kill me.

Yeah, bro. No. Yeah, no. I mean, you killed someone, so. You know, why does that matter? He's still thinking about that. Yeah, just bizarre. I mean, what are your thoughts on this? I feel like, you know, when you kind of look at the situation, maybe at a glance, maybe

you feel bad for the kids because they were essentially groomed and they were preyed upon and they were psychologically tortured to do this and commit this crime. But just everything afterwards, them showing no remorse, then really just saying wild, wild stuff, and even why did the friends do it? Like, none of it's making sense to me. It's really hard to even see it as like, oh, these kids were brainwashed. Yeah. And at the end of the day, they took a life, so I don't think it matters. Let me know what are your thoughts on this case, and I hope you guys enjoyed,

and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye! me know what are your thoughts on this case and I hope you guys enjoyed and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye!