Rotten Mango - #140: Murder On The Deserted Island (Case of Palmyra Island)

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

What would scare you the most about being on a deserted island? The sharks? The thick jungle that is so thick and humid you have no idea what animals are lurking beyond? Or maybe it’s basic survival - finding out how to get water, food, and shelter. The last thing on your mind would be murder right? That’s what the Graham couple thought when they docked on the deserted isolated island of Palmyra. But they didn’t know that they weren’t alone there. And that they would never leave the island ever again. Book Rec: “And The Sea Will Tell” - by Vincent Bugliosi & Bruce Henderson (best deep dive on this case and fascinating perspective into the trials but heavily biased) Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue, and I just have a question to ask you. What would scare you the most about being on a deserted island? Is it the ruthless crabs that are gonna snap at your toes with every step that you take? Or is it the jungle-like vegetation that's so thick, so humid, that you can't even see through it, you have to get a machete and slash your way through this vegetation. Maybe it's the water, maybe the sharks are the deal breaker for you, or just basic survival, staying hydrated, the wild guesswork of finding out which fish you're about to eat are they poisonous.

For once, you might not think that it's murder. Well, that's what the Graham couple thought. They thought that they were taking a cruise, just the two of them, to a deserted island, south of Hawaii, to explore, seek adventure, and detach from technology, detach from the outside world. They had no idea that they wouldn't be alone on that very island, and that they would never leave the island ever again. As always, full show notes are available at ronmanglepodcast.com, but I really, really encourage you to check out this.

Well, really any Vincent Buglio sees books, I feel like I'm saying that wrong, but especially this one. It's called And the Sea Will Tell. And it's written by Vincent and Bruce Henderson, which if you guys don't know, Vincent is a true icon as a true crime author. You want to know why? He was an attorney. And I think he really rose to frame when he was working for the DA's office in Los Angeles and he had successfully prosecuted Charles Manson. He later wrote a book on a called Helter Skeletor, which is one of my favorite books of all time, and then he turned to private practice after leaving the DA's office, and he was the defense attorney for one of the people involved in today's case.

So yeah, there's clear bias there, but it makes for a really incredibly interesting read, especially because Vincent is really diligent, meticulous, and honestly just an eloquent There's clear bias there, but it makes for a really incredibly interesting read, especially because Vincent is really diligent, meticulous, and honestly just an eloquent person. The book is well written, it's captivating, and we're going to jump into the story. It all starts with the island of Palmyra. It's one of the northern line islands. It's, I would say, about a third of the way between Hawaii and American Samoa. So Palmyra is interesting geographically speaking because it's quite literally at the center

of the Pacific Ocean. It's got the same distance to North America as it does to New Zealand. It's said that there's no permanent population in Palmyra instead most of the habitats are just transient people. They're typically either employed by the US government or their scientists. So since it's uninhabited, I mean, it's beautiful. It's a tropical destination with tall coconut trees

that got these massive coral reefs on every side. I mean, it's essentially a floating coral reef. Like, that's what it is. That sounds horrified. Yeah. I think. No? A little bit. Yeah. Are they? No.

A little bit. Yeah. The beaches are rocky instead of sandy. And there's some parts where they're sand because there's like a lagoon. The coral can sometimes be as sharp as a razor blade. Onshore, the vegetation is really dense. It's lush. Probably a green that I've never seen with my own two eyes.

Something out of a movie. Some would say that you need a machete, literally a big machete to pass through the thick vegetation. And unlike a lot of the other islands, it's actually categorized as an atoll. I think I'm pronouncing that right. So it means it's a ring-shaped reef or an island that's formed by coral.

So again, like a coral island. And Palmyra was really flat. The highest point on the entire island is 6 feet above sea level. What? Yeah. So there's... Oh big is it? Is it huge? It's not that big. It's like a... I think like a hundred acres? So there's these colorful fish everywhere. Most of them are super poisonous to eat. The crystal clear water is filled with sharks.

Back during World War II is used as an air force base for the United States. Now there are rumors about this Palmyra curse. The rumor is that a ton of boats and aircrafts just started disappearing near the area. During World War II, everyone based on the islands seemed to hear about this curse nonstop, but the real legend actually started far before that. I'm talking 1816. There were legends of pirates going missing. There were legends of pirates coming upon Palmyra and just hiding their treasure there

and then somehow vanishing into thin air. People have been looking for this Palmyra treasure for decades, for centuries. Nobody has found it. I mean, it seems like it's just another one of those stories. I wonder how many people actually found treasures I know. From the old times.

Exactly. A chest. I guess like archaeologists. Yeah, but like, I wonder how many people will actually Turn it in. Announce it. Hey, I just found this. Oh, fascinating.

Right, I will say 99% of them are quiet. What did you say? Yeah, I feel like there's gotta be a lot of treasures that we don't know about. Now, there's no proof that there is a treasure, but many people still consider the island to be evil. So this is where today's story takes place. But before we go there, we got to talk about Stephanie, not me, but Stephanie Starns. We're gonna call our Stephanie or Stephanie, and it's gonna be weird because I hate saying my own name. So she is a pivotal part of today's story. She was born in the United States and her brother said that their dad was pretty abusive.

Not in the sense that he would physically beat them but they almost wish he had. He would come home so drunk he would completely ignore their existence. He would just pass out on the couch. I think most of the time he didn't even care or comprehend that he had kids and that they were home But somehow Stephanie still managed to be this super bright friendly animated kid It seemed like her mom was pretty present in her life, so maybe that balance things out By the time that their mom divorced their dad Stephanie was only 10 and she was she was messed up from this divorce Especially because her mom was like, you know what, to make it better.

We're gonna uproot our lives, forget your friends, forget your school, we're gonna move to Toronto. We're not even gonna stay in the same country. So they moved to Toronto, and Stephanie, she hated it. She's in high school, smoking weed behind her parents back, you know, skipping class, hanging out with the wrong kids. The school basically expelled her. Later they moved to Los Angeles, and I guess the move was positive because she starts going back to school, getting these good grades. And after she graduates, her uncle said,

I've got a very unique opportunity for you. You know how I have a little tiny bed and breakfast in Hawaii? Why don't you come, run the restaurant, run the bar, business is booming. Your my niece, I want to help you out! You can help with the bookkeeping, the accounting, it'll be good!

Sevni had always loved a good adventure. I mean, this seemed perfect. Years just start flying by. She's in Hawaii having the time of her life. Even after she quits working for her uncle, I mean, she stays in Hawaii. Who wouldn't, right? She's 26 and some people would call her quote a hippie.

She hated society, she hated all the corruption, she just wanted to be as detached from all of that. She would say things like, you know, life is kind of like a river. I'm just flowing along with the current, going wherever the river takes me and enjoying the trip. She hated when people got locked into a role that was defined by others or society. She felt like life became this strange game where you people just simply act out pre-determined roles

that people have for them. She wanted to write her own role. She wanted to have her own dimensions. Her family did not approve of this. I mean, to a degree they did. But I mean, her mom and her brother that she was very close with, they were pretty conservative. They thought life was about stages.

College, find a career, the marriage stage, children stage, building a family stage, retirement stage. You should not be living with your partner before getting married or even dabbling in recreational drugs. Now, these are all things that Stephanie was doing and they disapproved of it, but they really hated Stephanie's choice and men.

One of them was a guy named Buck Duane Walker. Buck? Buck. He was 34 years choice in bed. One of them was a guy named Buck Duane Walker. Buck, Buck. Duane Walker. He was 34 years old. Tall, athletic. He had these prison tattoos on his arms. I mean, you could tell that they were done at home or more likely in prison.

They had a ton of scarring underneath. They did not look professional or hygienic. He had a heart with a ribbon on his bicep and then just his first name on his forearm. Buck. Yeah. Just in case he forgets. They're like, what's your name? They've been on his bicep and then just his first name on his forearm. Buc. Just in case he forgets. They're like, what's your name?

He's a Quran Rolls-Up his sleeve. So Stephanie runs into Buc while walking around in apartment complex in Hawaii. And he was in love. The minute that he saw her cross his path, he said this reddish, gold hair that she had. And she just flipped it. The minute that they passed by each other, he watched her walk by with his mouth wide open, and snapped back, you turned it, and was like, I, do you wanna go to the park with me?

Say, and she accepted. The confidence. The confidence, and just like that, they were smoking a joint in the park, talking about themselves. Well, Stephanie talked about herself. Buck did not volunteer a lot of information. He mentioned that he came to Hawaii to take care of his dad, and he was this laid back guy who hated authority and politics. He conveniently

left out that he was on parole for armed robbery charges in California. But he made sure that she knew that he just wanted to kick back and go with the flow of things. And then he leaned in and he kissed her. And afterwards he said, you got a boyfriend? He said, nope. Afterwards. Afterwards. And that was that. They moved in together.

I mean, it's the perfectly normal love story. And in this small cabin that Buck had built with his dad, that's what they're living. Now, this is a part of the island called Mountain View. And it's pretty isolated. This cabin had no electricity, no indoor plumbing, they really lived a cute life in the beginning. They thrifted everything, Stephanie sewed the curtains herself, they had this wood burning stove that Stephanie loved, she loved cooking on it.

She even met Buck's parents, Wesley and Ginger Walker. Now Wesley the dad is an interesting person. Buck said, my dad's my hero. My dad is literally the most dominant figure in my life. I want to be just like my dad. He would go on these rants about his dad. He would sit there for hours and say, my dad is the most fascinating man that I have ever known.

I mean, I was like a wart on his nose growing up. I never got tired of watching my dad. Whenever my dad approved of me, I felt like I was soaring through this skies. Whenever he disapproved of something that I did, it was bone crushing, you know? I mean, I just think that there's really no positive human characteristic

that my dad doesn't have. I mean, think about it, Stephanie. He's handsome, intelligent. He had this extraordinary logical ability. I mean, seriously, it, Stephanie. He's handsome, intelligent. He had this extra-ordinary logical ability. I mean, seriously, nobody can resist his charm. Stephanie is like, mm-hmm, but she's met Wesley. And she's like, what is this hype? He seemed like a wander, a dreamer, and honestly, kind of a loser.

He had a bit of an insensitive streak that she found to be incredibly disturbing. He always encouraged Buck to get even with violence. Like if he was bullied, he'd be like, what are you going to beat the bully up harder, so that they never mess with you again? So she's like, are you sure we're talking about the same person? You got another dad somewhere? Wesley ended up passing away suddenly in a construction accident and Buck just fell into this very deep depression.

And he starts channeling this grief by starting a business with a body of his. Stephanie begged him not to, but he wouldn't listen. And you're like, why would she do that? Well, here's the thing, Buck really, really wanted to sell LSD. That was his business plan. Yeah, uh-huh. I mean, Stephanie was right,

Buck had confessed to the armed robbery charge. He told Stephanie all about his prison life. How he spent most of the time reading. It started with detective novels, and then he graduated to controversial philosophy works. He wanted to read about how an ideal world would be that all people are selfish, and they act entirely in their own self-interest.

He said that would make the world more productive. It would make economy go stronger. Now, Bucks said that he loved this book, and that if this is really how the world more productive. It would make economy go stronger. Now, Bucks said that he loved this book. And that if this is really how the world worked, his dad would have succeeded. So, like, are you calling your dad selfish? I mean, that seems like a really weird thing to say. He also talked about how he met with kidnappers

in Beijing, California, in prison. Oh, and they were very enlightening, he said. Such good people. Good guys, you know, they were just misunderstood by the DAs. Now, his business comes crashing down and burning when he sells LSD to an undercover federal narcotics agent. Very casual stuff.

Buck is arrested and the agents are like, you know what? Stephanie, we're gonna arrest you too for good measure. Just in case, because you guys live together, like, let's just come over here. So the two of them are both facing federal charges, but they're out on bail and buck is freaking out. I can't go back to prison. I'm gonna be in there for life because I was already out on parole. They're never gonna let me out again. I can't do this. I mean, sure, it's philosophical and I love talking to a bitch, but I'm terrified. I hate prison. Okay?

It's okay, Buck. I'm, it's don, Buck. I'm sure we can work things out. I have a plan. We can leave civilization. We can go live somewhere that has no authority, no arrest warrants, no prisons. So they get back to Hawaii and they start going to the library to read books on islands. And they heard about Palmyra, which, honestly, from the very minimal knowledge that they had, they're like, you know, that's the one I want to live there. They miss the parts about the sharks and the razor sharp coral, but it would all be a fun surprise for them later, you know. It's like, what is life without surprises?

The two of them, they start getting to work. They need a boat. I mean, this is not an island. There's no airstrip. You can't even land there. Nobody goes there. Delta's not going to fly you there. So they can, they need their own boat.

It's not, it's not the Royal Caribbean. It's not gonna take them either. So they need to get there on their own. So they scraped together what little money that they had, which honestly was quite a bit. It was like $3,000. They buy this boat. They name it Margaret. She's, I don't know.

It's a very interesting name for a boat. Should we name your niece Margaret? We're collecting names. Yes, please send us some names, okay? Now, if you're like, wow, that's really affordable for a boat. It's because it is. The boat was actually not usable yet. They had to repair quite a bit of it with no experience. So they buy this fixer upper and they start getting to work. They DIY'd everything. Buck worked on this boat all day, every single day. It was hard, intensive, physical labor, but they didn't care. When they're finally done with the boat, they wanted to rename it, which I don't know if you guys read into sailing folklore

and urban legends of boating, but yes, for shadowing. Renaming a boat is very, very bad luck. So it's not that even if you buy about, you should keep the original name. Because renaming it is like weird luck. But they were either blissfully unaware or they just didn't care. Because Margaret had transformed into the Lola, the Iola, which in Hawaiian means to life. And I'm pretty sure I'm pronouncing that wrong. So Buck toasted to it.

May she sail the seven seas and never see the bottom of the ocean. Which like the skies just jinxing himself at this point. The next day, they're ready to set sail, and the couple did not find anything alarming about the fact that Buck had only gone sailing with his friends before, and his friends were sailors, and Stephanie had never even steered a boat in her entire life. To get to Palmyra, they would be in the open waters for at least a month. So before they could set off sail, their boat toppled over. They were holding the boat up with nylon ropes, which is a big no-no because nylon stretches

over time, so it toppled over. So they couldn't even get it in the water and And of course, Buck blamed it on everyone except for him. So I mean, this guy's an ass. Even in his relationship with Stephanie, he was really toxic. She hated guns in the house, but he said, oh, it's for safety. Whenever she tried to bring up something about the guns, he would just yell at her, like, shut up, shut up, shut up. And so she'd get so upset, she would run to her car

and drive off an anger, and he would run outside, pick up the heaviest rocks, and just start chucking them at her car while she's driving off And he would never apologize for any of this. He never apologized to anyone about anything. I mean she was used to it now She did instantly regret changing the boat's name though. It seemed like bad luck at a way of finding Stephanie So she tries to distract herself by writing a letter to her family back home. Now this is not a casual letter or at least not to her family. She basically told them, hey I love you guys so much but I'm gonna go off-grid with this guy named Buck that you don't really know and I don't really know when the next time you're gonna hear from me. But like love you. So

Stephanie's mom, Sunny and her brother are like we gotta go to Hawaii. We gotta go talk some sense in her. This girl is crazy. I mean, it wasn't easy. They fly to Hawaii. They get to her cabin. She's not there. Then they had to fly to Maui.

I mean, they were catching like three different flights just to track down their daughter. This she already leave or? No, she was on the island. And it was by pure luck that they ran into her. And she agreed to meet them for dinner. And already, her mom was not into this buck, dude. I mean, he got some shaggy hair that wasn't brushed.

He was tall and muscular. I don't know. That was like really weird that she's not in time for that. I mean, there was just a strange air about him, though. During the dinner, they told her mom everything. They were going to set sail and Stephanie's mom and recently sent them money, but they were going to use it to buy a radio initially. But

They were gonna spend it on food instead since Stephanie loved baking besides two way radios They're super expensive and there's not really anyone on shore that we're dying to talk to So Stephanie's mom's sonny was like what she wanted to yell at them But I call them idiotic you stupid. You're so short-sighted. Do you not have any concern for your own safety? But she didn't, because she knew that that would get them absolutely nowhere. You say 2A radio? A 2A radio. So like, in case of emergencies, you can try to phone the Coast Guard, I guess.

But you will be fine because it's illegal. Broadcasting. But I mean, better alive. Okay. Well, Stephanie told us that you guys have some legal issues. Do you need any help on that? Stephanie sign and she said, well, Buck was arrested for the charge of selling MDA. And it's a drug mom, but don't freak out. It's not like heroin. It's like weed, okay?

Anyway, I was in town with Buck and he was arrested in the parking lot. They ended up filing a charge against me for selling MDA to, and it's not fair, none of this is. I mean, Stephanie genuinely believed it wasn't fair, not that she was arrested, but that Buck was even arrested. She's like, they trapped him into selling them MDA to the undercover officers. I mean, sure, he had it, and he was selling it to other people. But of course, if he knew that they were undercover agents, he wouldn't have sold it to them. This is what she's saying.

Anyway, Buc has a court hearing tomorrow, but he's not going to go. The lawyer said that if Buc goes and pleads guilty to one count, they're going to drop the other charges against him and also me. What? So if he goes, is he going to jail tomorrow? No, no, no, they're going to let him stay out on bail

and then sent and seeing as like a couple months away. Her brother is like, did I just hear that correctly? If he goes to jail tomorrow? No, no, they're gonna let him stay out on bail and then sentencing is like a couple months away. Our brother's like, did I just hear that correctly? If he goes to court tomorrow, pleads guilty. The charges against you who have nothing to do with this are dropped. You. He didn't even go to jail tomorrow. So what's the problem?

But they don't want to go tomorrow. Yeah, and bucks like, yeah, but that's what the lawyer said. Okay, then what? Why don't you just do this because that doesn't make any sense? And he's like, well, I'd rather die than go back to prison. Stephanie's like, listen, Buck paid for his mistake. He was a teenager when he decided to commit armed robbery. And to top it all off, he told me the gun wasn't even loaded.

But the police called it armed robbery. How is it armed if there's no bullets in the gun? Oh my god. And they just sent him to prison, which like I just don't get. Anyway, we're not going to court tomorrow. So Seffney's brother kept trying to convince Bob you got to go to court. I mean, do it for my sister. Do it for your girlfriend that you supposedly love. And he said, yeah, I guess that makes sense. It's my problem anyway. Stephanie looked over, grabbed his hand and said, it's our problem, ours. I'm so incredibly annoyed, incredibly annoyed. So after dinner, Sunny and Stephanie's brother convinced her to talk to them in private and

Sunny presented her an offer that she thought Stephanie would snap out of this and come back to mainland which is I want you to come back and take over my business. I can train you, I will retire, the business is all yours. I'm not even going to helicopter mom, this is a fresh start, there's already revenue, this is perfect. Mom, honestly, that's so sweet and I really appreciate it. I really do. And I think maybe a couple months ago I would have accepted it, but I'm committed to this. The only thing in my mind right now is getting our boat ready so we can leave Hawaii. I put all of my money into this. Buck's been working on the boat.

This is something we want to do and we're going to do it. I can't change the course and I can't desert Buck. He would go without me, but I don't think he's gonna make it alone. He needs me, Mom. Stephanie, if you help him, you're gonna be facing other charges too. Not just that one, but like, aiding and abetting a fugitive?

You're gonna get charged with that. Do you think if I marry him, they can't charge me for helping him if I'm his wife, right? So they're like, this is not going in the direction that we wanted it to go. I mean, her brother shut up instantly because he's not going to give her a reason to marry the guy. And they're like, really?

You want to just abandon your family. Leave this country for good with him on a sailboat. Never see us. Never see the United States ever again. For the rest, you're so young. I'm not abandoning you guys. It's not like I'm dropping off the face of the earth. Besides, Bucks said it's not going to be forever.

It's just going to be a few years. He's going to turn himself in afterwards. And he said that the police are going to go easier on him because if you can show that he hasn't gotten into any trouble since he left, they're probably not going to give him prison time. Yeah, that's how it works with fugitives. For sure. So what kind of advice is this?

I mean, her family, their jaws were dropped. They wanted to tell it, that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. They're like, you, there's no way you even believe what you're saying. Like what's coming out of your mouth? There's no way. So Sun is getting pissed like, you don't think they'll find you. The government has planes. They have ships. They've got the FBI. They spend so much of their resources looking for fugitives.

Well, we're not just leaving Hawaii to go to like New York City. We're going to an island. Now, she did not name the island that she was going to. Didn't give any specifics. Buck told her not to. They also tried to talk to Stephanie about Buck's criminal history. They had run a background check on him. Yeah, her brother had a friend at the DA's office in Los Angeles and ran a full on background check on this guy. I mean, his rap sheet was, it was like 10 pages long.

And they were just talking about the first half of it. Now, what's crazy is they thought that Stephanie would be shocked or even upset with that for doing something like this. But instead, rather, she knew everything. But it was told to her in a way that she felt like everything was justified. You know this guy spent seven months in a hospital for the criminally insane? Yeah, but he only did that so that he wouldn't have to go to a regular prison. You don't think he's at all insane?

A little bit? No, no, of course not. It's because prison is really rough. They didn't even give him enough food. It's like, what are you even saying? So Stephanie's mom and brother, they had to go back home knowing that there was nothing they could do. A week later, they get another letter, which is Stephanie was just talking about how America

is the unknown. Everybody came here to search for something better. Some people found it, they're American dream. But those who came, they didn't survive, or those who remain home and don't seek adventure, they don't survive either. Pretty much saying, everybody dies. I could die at home, or I could die in Palmyra,

but she didn't tell them it was Pymyra. And, you know, I just gotta, I gotta do it. I don't even know if I'm gonna be happy when I get there, but I know that I'm gonna be a better person. All my love, Stephanie. So the couple decide to push forth with their journey. And even before heading off, they're already going at it. They're constantly finding each other.

Stephanie wanted to bring her tiny little dog, which like, you know, is a, it's a very cute dog, but I don't know if you should bring your dog to a deserted island and on top of that, you've got to get supplies for the dog and I'm sure like a eight pound little maltees, are they really going to eat a lot? Probably not, but Bucks said, oh yeah, well in that case I'm bringing my dogs to. But Bucks dogs will like two one hundred pound piece okay. I'm not saying two of them. And I'm not saying they're bees because they're scary. They might be, but they're they're just they're gonna eat a lot. They need a lot of attention and a lot of exercise, a lot of food. She's like, no you can't. My dog is

super cute and she's tiny, but yours, they're clumsly, they're dumb, and honestly, one of them tries to bite me all the time, but I don't want to be on a boat with that dog. Okay, well, I'll leave my dogs if you leave yours. She could not leave her little dog puffer, so they loaded onto the boat, three dogs, and 150 pounds of dog food. No, breaking way. away. Yeah, on to the boat. And another point of contention, another fight, was that Buck had another great business idea. His two friends from Hawaii would sail to meet them in Palmyra in a couple months and bring a boatload, literally,

a boatload of marijuana seats, which Buck and Stephanie would use to plant weed on the island, this deserted island, and then they would come back on boat to smuggle the weed back into Hawaii to sell it for a big cash, big bucks, big profits. They think the earth is just their playground. Yeah. Or just living in it. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is a foolproof plan, a plan engineered by a bunch of fools, like they thought they're,

you know, this is easy money okay. So June 1st the Lola set out for sale which by the way the whole journey was gonna be lengthy. It's not a cute little cruise it'd be weeks of sailing being at the mercy of the sea and the wind and being in pitch black darkness. Have you seen videos of being in literally just the middle of the ocean? Not a dark insight. It's so dark, even with the strongest flashlights, you can barely see ahead of you. Everything was going well.

The first day. Stephanie had never felt so free before. She had her man that she loved and there are three dogs. The wind was blowing relatively strong, straight south in the direction of Palmyra. So it's perfect. But then a few hours later, the wind completely stopped and they were just bobbin' on the waves. They were going nowhere.

They don't wanna start the engine because they're like, whatever fuel we brought, we gotta make it last. And then that night, both of them realized something about themselves, the very first night. Buck, the guy who wanted to sail around the world, answering to no authority or no government, just chartering international

waters, being a drug dealer. He realized sailing is not that glamorous and he gets seasick really easily. So he's just vomiting the whole time. Meanwhile, 70's terrified. She was put on night duty almost every single night and it's pitch black outside and she just saw it. Even if we're approaching a giant ship right in front of us, there's no way of me knowing. Is that dark? She stayed up all night every single night fighting her urge to sleep. She was carrying most of the

duties on her back. One time, she goes downstairs to the room to check up on Buck, who was seasick once again. But there he was. Not sleeping. Very much awake, smoking a joint and playing with his handgun. She's pissed. Her face and shoulders were getting raw from being sunburned her hands were completely raw from handling the ropes and ties her hair was so dry and caked with salt her arms hurt and her legs felt like sticks and buck is downstairs smoking joints and napping and cleaning his gun suddenly sailing thousands of miles over the ocean to live on a deserted island with a guy that she doesn't really know that well,

does not sound romantic anymore. Which, someone could have told her that. So every day, it just starts blending into each other and there is nothing but empty sky on every single horizon, no signs of humanity anywhere, not even another boat. They didn't even see a single plane. It felt like they were the last humans on Earth.

And to make matters worse, they weren't bonding. Buck had a very high sex drive, but for once he wasn't really interested in Stephanie. They hadn't done it since a week before they left Hawaii, and she thought to herself if they weren't alone in the middle of the ocean right now, he would be cheating on her. Again. Yes, again. So when she met Buck, she was working for this roofing business. And I mean roofing, that's a lot of physical labor. She could not keep up, but instead of quitting, she recommended her boyfriend Buck. So he starts working there, and while long story short, he slept with the boss' girlfriend.

So like, what the fork is going on. But Stephanie felt bad. Because it was her fault, you know. To be fair, Buck had told her that he never wanted to meet monogamous because he needed to make up for lost time since he was behind bars for so long. Now, back to the boat, Stephanie had other problems. She had no idea where the hell they were going.

The water looked the same on every single direction. She had bought one book with her. It was called the 10 easy steps to navigation That's how she was trying to get to Palmyra To be fair to pinpoint where they were at this point without having a track log Would have been hard for even experience sailors. They were in for a world of trouble They kept pointing their compass and just kept heading south They're like well Palmyra south. So let's just go south That's crazy.

Yeah, yeah. About 10 days into their trip, she learned that they had been reading the map wrong. They were holding it upside down. Yeah. They're like, no wonder. I thought it was in a different language. So on the bright side, though, she knew where they were now

and they were halfway to Palmyra. So they were so excited that they weren't lost to it's sea, but that only lasted two seconds before somebody snapped back into reality and realized, great, we're halfway, but we're running out of food. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's going to catch us?

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Did you consider yourself a rat? 100% I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey Originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being a dirty mother f***er. And it did not help that buck had been eating these big breakfasts to help with his sea sickness, and then he would throw it all up midday and get more hungry and eat more. Oh my god. He was just scarfing down their entire food supply. Or the dogs do it.

I bet they're not doing well. The dogs get crazy on the island. Like no food wanting to literally kill rats. Okay. Well, actually killing rats. Yeah. It's honestly animal abuse at this point that they brought their dogs. The dogs are not good

So by the time that they need to reach palmyra they would need to find food ASAP So Stephanie cut down on her food she had a few black coffees a day and one very light meal Buck did not follow her lead. He just kept eating and eating until he was stuffed for every single meal So they try fishing because they thought it'd be a great, you know source of protein they dreamed of fresh mahi mahi and tuna and So they tried fishing because they thought it'd be a great, you know, source of protein. They dreamed of fresh mahi mahi and tuna and, uh, well, buck was pretty incompetent at that. But Stephanie said that moments of seeing the dolphins jumping out of the water, like they had prepsum sort of choreographed aquatic ballet for the couple.

It was beautiful. She loved it. These were the moments that made everything feel worth it. They were smiling, laughing and kissing And it's just like they started dating all over again and even more good news They were gonna be on Palmyra by that afternoon. It would be their 19th day. They actually found the way there It's a miracle. Wow, but a very bad one. Yeah, okay, so they're ecstatic Especially when they start seeing the land. They're like, we did it! Bok is like, Stephanie, you're amazing!

Columbus could have used you! Stephanie was on top of the moon. She was like, God, I actually did it. I'm so proud of myself. This is our island. Woo! They're like toasting. Now, getting onto the island, though, was another tough task.

There were sharp coral reefs everywhere that would completely break their boat, pierce through their boat. It would take them another week to get onto the island. They would just circle around it. Because the only way to get through was to have your motor on, so that you could kind of like maneuver, right, left, right?

But their motor broke, because buck was in charge of the motor and he let it sit in seawater for so long that it was broken. So that's freaking great. They could have landed on Paradise far sooner but because of buck they didn't and for whatever reason, Stephanie, she's better than I am, she didn't bring it up and buck didn't either. He never apologized. Wow. So they waited until the wind was in their favor. It would be a full week, a full freaking week. But as they get there, their boat hit a coral reef. And boom, they hit something.

So Buck valiantly dove into the water to check on the boat. Everything was fine. He climbed back on board and told Stephanie, it's not going to cause irreversible damage. Sure, we're stuck. You know, definitely stuck. We're notible damage. Sure, we're stuck. You know? Definitely stuck, we're not going nowhere. But, we're not leaking.

So, that's a good one, right? Let me check the other side just in case. So he dives into the other side of the boat. And this is when he comes face to face with a shark. There was at least six feet long. He panicked, he starts clawing at the side of the alola and he's gulping, gasping for hair, trampling. And Stephanie's like, what's wrong with your own?

Is it sharp? It's okay though, friendly shark, friendly. What, how do you know it was friendly? It invited me to dinner. So it's friendly. She was not a muse, okay? She did not find it funny. And in that moment, another boat pulls up behind them. A middle-aged man named Jack Wheeler,

his teenage son Steve, and their boat was called the Poseidon. He said straight up, oh, hey! Need some help? Yes, please! Seventy was ecstatic! Buck was pissed. He was pissed that there were other people on their island. Who are these people? Oh yeah, oh we'll get into it. So the men, they tossed over their lines, buck secured their boat and they were pulled free and pulled through the channel at a study piece and stuffing was just mesmerized. From the boat, the water was sparkling.

It was emerald blue. There were lumps of greenish coral, colorful schools of fish everywhere that you could see. The beaches were blinding white. The vegetation was the most beautiful color of green. Everything felt HD. It was so vivid. Before they docked, buck hissed at Stephanie. Remember, my name is Roy Allen.

Don't mess it up. Don't let it slip. Okay, fine. I mean, I guess it's fine that he wants to give a fake name. I mean, who hasn't done that at a bar, but this was the last name of the girl he cheated on Stephanie with.

So yeah, I'm sure it's stung a little bit. So he cheated on her with like Gina Alan. And this guy is Roy out what? And she said, okay Roy, whatever you say, but have you thought about what you're gonna say about that big old buck tattoo on your arm? And she walked away So they get to Palmyra and the couple soon realized this is not a deserted island sure It's not it's uninhabited, but there was some people so Jack was there at the middle-aged man that helped the couple

He had his wife and their three kids that that were all there. They live there? Well, they come by for a couple months a year. There was another boat. Oh my gosh. They were just like, okay. Exactly. Free land. It gets wild. Free vacation home.

Pretty much. Wow. Then there was another boat docked. That was owned by a Larry Briggs and his crew who was also on the island. I mean, it was weird. Jack, the one who saved them, told them he has considered the mayor of Palmyra,

almost in a challenging tone. And he told them a little bit more about the place. He said, well, Palmyra, as you know, the Northern Line Islands are a chain of 11 of islands that encompasses Palmyra. Oh, also, do you know about the poisonous fish? So he's like, what? Poisonous fish.

Buck hit a surprise because they were shocked. Their plan was to eat solely fish to survive. What? Yeah, the fish carry a toxin. It's produced by a certain kind of algae here. There's still some type of fish that are edible and quite tasty even, but most of them are pretty toxic. And he starts listing the fish by their name, like, how is that going to help them? Stephanie and Buck were also so shocked to see that there were so many sharks everywhere. And Buck is like, I mean, but they seem friendly. Oh yeah, the sharks here are as thick as fleas on a hound. The lagoon is a breeding ground for black top sharks.

Did you know black top sharks are one of the most aggressive sharks in the Pacific? Yeah, they get about to six feet long. Be careful about them. I would be cautious when you take a dip. So, friendly my ass invited you to dinner, my ass. Something was devastated. This was not the island. The paradise that she imagined.

I mean, if it was, humans probably would have colonized it, right? We would have water-top bungalows on the Palmyra. Instagram influencers would be there every vacation. This doesn't make sense. Her dream had been shattered. Tongalos on the Palmyra, Instagram influencers would be there every vacation. This doesn't make sense. Her dream had been shattered. The only silver lining to all of this was that thankfully it wasn't deserted. Because they would have been in very big trouble.

They would have eaten a fish and died on the spot. Even the vegetation was hostile. Jack had to chop through each piece to get through it. It was so dense that the heat and humidity was trapped in it, like a greenhouse. There was this old military air strip that was built back in the 40s, and the damn thing was like a mile long, but you can't see it because the vegetation took over. Now it's full of birds'ness.

Oh my gosh. It just birds flocking every single surface, to peck at things pooping everywhere. I mean, it's kind of straight out of a horror movie. Bugs dogs start going crazy for the birds. One of them grabs a bird by its neck and snaps it in half and starts chomping down at it. Which like, this is a domesticated dog. So like, how are you to listen? My dogs would never. What are you teaching your dogs?

So, Bugs beat the dog, pride the bird out of the dog's mouth and he decided that he was going to tie his dogs up. So that's miserable. Jack said, we tried to eat the birds' eggs last time we came. Kind of fishy, for sure, very fishy, but not horrible. Just make sure that they're fresh.

So what we did was we marked a 20 by 20 foot area, cleared it up and came back the next day and any new eggs inside that box or inside that area were fresh eggs, so we would eat it. But it's not the yumiest. Anyway, if you guys look to your right, that's decaying air force base. That right there is the 10-wheeler military truck. It's been there for about 11 years. Since we've been coming, there's been a lot of destruction and vandalism though, which

is sad. Stephanie was worried about that. What do you, who just goes to an isolated island and destroys something for fun? That's like something kids do with a dumpster in the back of the movie theater. Like, why would you come all the way here to vandalize something? There were also bullet holes and slash tires all over the trucks. Oh my gosh. So Jack is like, it is my third trip and I used to have a job with an oceanography institute.

My wife and I spent about 15 months here. I was taking the air weather observations, just monitoring the time, stuff like that. We liked it here. Kinda grows on you. But trust me, there's a lot of exploring to do. My wife and I the other day found an underground bunker with enough goodies to open a war surplus store. Wow, you sure know your way around Jack.

Like I said, I call myself the unofficial mayor of Palmyra. You know, the Fuller and Leo's, you guys know them, right? The owners of the island. So speaking of how long are you guys staying? Us? A while? Okay, well, what did you say your name was again? I'm Roy Allen and this is my wife Stephanie. We are planning on starting a garden, maybe live off the land for a while. Well, if you folks are trying to stay for a little while, you should write the owners for permission, seeing how it's a private land and all. I'm here as a representative of this trip. They wanted me to get the air strip in base so that planes can start landing. I don't know though. Those birds are going to be a huge problem if you ask me,

but my son and I are doing what we can to clear the strip. So it's kind of confusing. Palmyra is private property owned by a family that never visits it, but it's also possession of the US and was used as an Air Force Base. So technically any visitors would have to ask the family for permission otherwise it'd be trespassing unless you're the US government I guess.

Buck offered to help clear the airstrip for Jack because they wanted to get on his good side. I mean, they were upset though, because they had escaped authority to meet one of the most authoritative people that called them to help the mayor of Palmyra, so that was disturbing. But they were trying to look at the bright side. The first night, Stephanie and Buck even had sex under the candlelight. Then she knocked out. She had slept well for the first time in months.

Every morning, Buck went to help Jack and Steve clear that runway while Stephanie spent her morning baking. So, they're sleeping on the boat, and then they would go onto the island during the day. Now, it seemed like everyone was somewhat getting along. I'm sure there was tension. I'm sure that Jack Wheeler didn't really like this couple and the couple did not like Jack Wheeler, but that bubble burst, that little bubble of tension burst, when one of Buck's dogs, bit one of Jack's kids.

I guess Buck had his dogs tied up, but the child had run close enough to the dogs that one of them bit his thigh. I mean the Wheeler family was not pleased, because they're like're like wow what kind of owners let their dogs get this Violent like that's weird because you know it's a reflection of the owner not the dog So Larry Briggs and his crew they departed soon after so essentially it was just the seven of them on the island There was a lot of tension thankfully two days later another boat ducks the first thing Buc saw was that boat. Oh, he whistled. It was named the Sea Wind, but it was a beauty of a boat. On board was a middle-aged man and a woman, and they looked like they knew what they were doing. So, you know, Jack and his family, the Wheeler family, we know Stephanie and Buc, but who are the newcomers?

Because this, they would prove to be very important. It was Mac and Muff, Malcolm Graham III, to be exact. He was born in Connecticut but he always just went by Mac. As a kid, he was always incredibly adventurous, very outdoorsy, he would spend most of his early years exploring the countryside. He used back roads, stayed out of sight, and if he ever came across a random horse, just grazing on grass, he would climb onto it. No saddle, no reins, he would just ride around on this wild horse. Are you kidding me, that's insane. Mac loved being outside, but it wasn't until 10, he discovered the ocean.

Oh yeah, he founded it. He went sailing and he said he'll never forget that sharp wind, the crisp air, the glistening sun, oh, it was perfect. His dad told him, well, son, for generations, literally four generations of our family have owned boats. So you'll probably own a boat too. Which if that's not the busiest thing I've ever heard. So Max grandpa had been a successful Wall Street investor. So the family had quite a bit of money.

Now, Max knew in that moment, he was born for the cease. He went to college to study engineering, but he realized, why would I waste my life away, working a nine to five, when I can drop out, move to California, and just work on boats? So he started working, and his employer said, if you've got a problem on a boat, he can fix it. This is the guy. It's almost like on land though, he wasn't in his element. He was a little bit clumsy on land.

He just wasn't the same. So with all of his inheritance, he pulled the trigger and he bought a wooden boat. He hated the new fancy modern fiberglass constructed boats. Sure, they require less work in maintenance, but so do fake flowers. Who the hell wants fake flowers over the real ones? So he's real passionate.

Oh yeah, so he buys the Sea Wind. It was a super nice boat with thick quality wood. It was a beauty. And with the rest of his inheritance, he had the financial freedom to sail the oceans to his heart's content. Max spent years fixing up that boat. Not that it needed more fixing, but he only bought the finest materials.

He fine-tuned everything to be exactly what he wanted, and everything had to be perfect. This guy was a perfectionist. He never hired people to do it because he was so particular about his baby, and that's what he did day in, day out. During the nights, he would maybe hit up the bars with his friends in San Diego.

And it was that one of these bars he runs into a woman named Eleanor Le Verne Eddington. She was described to be a stunning blonde with an hourglass figure. Who's obsessed? He bought her a drink. And usually she said no. Because she gets this question a lot. She was a hottie. But to Mac, she was intrigued. Like this guy's got a weird vibe about him. They get along so well, they start dating, and he kept calling her muffin, and then eventually muffin turned into muffin, for short. And after that, you know, two years later, they're engaged.

But Mac said, muff, before we get married, there's something I need to tell you. This is my dream, and I have to do this with or without you, before I get married and settle down. I need to take C-wind on a sailing expedition around the world. I was like, what? You have to do what? She's never really gone sailing.

I mean, sometimes she would do day trips with Mac when they started dating, but not the open open sea. She wasn't that adventurous by nature. She was a little bit more reserved. She was anxious. She needed time to get comfortable with things. So Max said that's fine babe I'm gonna go alone. He gets two crewmates And he says muff if we make it to Tahiti you're gonna fly to Tahiti

We're gonna get married and I will take you on a cruise for our honeymoon Two weeks later. He calls from Mexico. The water is terrible, we hit a storm, see when this damaged. So muff flies to Mexico, helps him fix the boat, and they set sail for six years around the world. Six years. They remembered all the tough parts. The typhoon and the south Pacific, they said the red sea was a perilous journey. Is that the word? They said it was a rough journey. They said they had a close call with a pirate ship in the Mediterranean.

Yeah, there's pirate ships, so they're known for colliding into smaller boats, climbing a board, taking anything of value, and just killing everyone on board, and then leaving. So yeah, that almost happened on their honeymoon. Muff loved being with Mack. She loved seeing him happy, but she did not like it that much. Like she didn't love all the dangerous parts. And after the cruise, they settled down in San Diego and they tried living this normal married life. But of course, it's not gonna work.

They tried for years and years, and now they're in their 40s, and they want vastly different things. Mack was jaded. He hated that all these reports of violent crime rates are rising, traffic pollution is horrible. Society is destroying this planet. He just wanted to sail the world and forget everything.

Muff, she just wanted a ranch-style house and a pool and would go to Whole Foods and shopping malls. That's what she wanted and she'd be so content. But she promised Mack, okay? We're getting older, you're right. One more trip. He said, thank you. It was a two-year tropical voyage.

So, Muff was in charge of stalking the pantry. And Mack knew that she was sad and he would constantly ask, are you okay? Yeah, I guess so. You know, Muff, you don't have to go with me. You could just stay home. I can get some crew. No, no, don't worry about me.

I don't want you to go without me. So Muff didn't want to go, but she didn't want Mac to go without her. He was the love of her life. And when she married him, she accepted his way of life. She would support his dreams. She would, she's not the woman that would make him choose between his two loves. Her and the sea, he deserved both. Besides, she was not confident in which one he would choose.

So before they left on their trip, they were invited to approximately 2,963 dinner parties with every one of their friends wanting to wish them goodbye, you know, because it's two years. At one of these dinner parties, there was a guy named Hal Horton, and Hal was a former Navy officer, and he just non-stop. The minute that Mack and Muffer like, yeah, we're going on a voyage. Oh, you gotta check out this island.

It's called Palmyra. During World War II, it was a naval air facility. I was based there for two years. It's this tiny little speck, a thousand miles south of Hawaii. I swear, it's straight out of the movie. In the middle of nowhere, uninhabited, except for a few ghosts, you know. Yes, sometimes we'd have planes

that would just go down near the island. They would just crash, and then we'd search and search, but we couldn't find one screw, one nail, one piece of metal. It's almost like planes would just drop off the edge of the earth. Another time we had another plane go missing, broad daylight, had two of our best men on there. We called it the Palmyra Curse.

Muffins starting to get anxious. Mack on the other hand was freaking fascinated. Well how deep is the channel? About 15 feet. I mean, it's pretty big for a sailboat. We used to get medium sized cargo ships inside the lagoon. We built a little loading dock for them, so you'd be good.

Oh wow. I bet there's a lot of places to explore on the island. Oh yeah, machine gun bunkers. We built underground tunnels, storage areas, the whole nine yards. The navy went all out. And you know, they left everything behind because it's cheaper than shipping it back.

So you'll find all kinds of relics there. A few weeks later, Mac finished his itinerary for the trip. They said that they would leave San Diego for Hawaii and then to Palmyra. And if the island lived up to the expectations, he wanted to stay there for six months to a year. And then they would continue to Tahiti and other islands. So Muff is just really anxious about all of this. She was having a physical response. She started having insomnia, heart palpitation, stomach pains. She didn't want to go. She had a bad feeling. So she went to her friend's house and started dropping

off her things. So a nice friend of hers, let's call her Marie, right? Marie was like, oh, since you're going and you're not going to keep your house for two years because that'd be dumb. Why don't you leave all your stuff in my garage and I'll keep it for you until you come back And so she dropped off this box and her eyes were closed and she starts kind of Fumbling through the box and pulls out a virgin Mary Like a little statue. There was a crack on her forehead and she says, Marie, I want you to have this We got it in Italy on our honeymoon. Oh, Muff, I couldn't do that. Please, please just take it.

But now it's from your honey. Marie, you don't understand. I never want to see this ever again. If you want to just throw it away, please, I don't want anything to do with this. Marie was confused, muffled, shaking, and muff is, sure, she's anxious a lot of the times, but she's not this overly emotional person

that would, what is going on? She couldn't even catch her breath. Muff starts sobbing. Look at her. Look at the statue. Don't you see what happened to her? The hole in her head?

She was referring to the crack. Marie was overwhelmed with grief for some reason, and she just started crying too. And Muff kept saying, Marie, I'm not coming back. I know I'm not. Oh Muff, saying, Mary, Marie, I'm not coming back. I know I'm not. Oh Muff, don't say that. No, Mack and I will never see you again. Honey, if you feel that way, you can't go. Just stay here, Mack will understand.

He would never want to put you through this kind of misery. And you could always stay here with us. No, no, no, my place is with Mack. He wants to go. No, he has to go. So do I. Right? It's just one more cruise. Or at least that's what we promised each other. Later that night, Marie burst into tears telling her husband about what happened. And she just kept saying, I know Muff. She was saying goodbye forever. I knew it. I felt it. So May 7th, Muff and Mac start their journey.

It took them almost the entire month to make it to Hawaii. They docked quickly and made friends with locals. One of them even suggested that they keep in contact via radio. While Muff and Mac are out in Palmyra, they warned Mac. You could get in real trouble on an island like that all by yourself. I mean, it might be a good idea to keep regular contact with the outside world. So how about we do Wednesdays? Mac agreed.

I mean, this was going to be his buddy. Besides, Mac came prepared. He had a rifle, a handgun, and a few other weapons. So he said, we don't have to worry too much. But I do like where you're going with this. Then by June 2nd, they arrive at Palmyra. Now Mac and Muff were first greeted by Buck and Stephanie. Buck offered to help them dock right next to their boat.

And Mac was like, uh, we kind of want some privacy. So he docked his boat away from everybody else. They set two anchors down just to be safe and they later met up with the rest of the island. Now the couple talked about how they had just gotten here from Hawaii and it was such an easy trip. It took them about six days and Stephanie was at a loss for words because she was so freaking proud of herself for getting them there in 19 days. And these people, she had spent seven days floating near the island. And these people like, yeah, I took a, who are these people? Stephanie said that she liked Mac immediately. He seemed so open and friendly, whereas Muff seemed really shy, a little bit more standoff-ish, but it was fine. And then another couple arrived on

the island. Yes, another couple. Bernard and Evelyn Leonard. Now, Jack said what everyone else was already thinking. Four boats. It's the most I've ever seen here at one time. This must be the most popular vacation spot of the year. I mean, seriously, guys, read the room. Uninhabited island. The nerve of these people, everyone was annoyed that other people had the same idea as them. It's not even any of their island. They're just annoyed, but Mac was still super positive.

Uninhabited or not, the island is super cool, it's beautiful, and no one's gonna dampen his excitement for a good adventure. Muff had a very different idea. So she wrote a letter to her family and he's like, wow, USPS goes there. No, Jack and his family were headed back to Hawaii soon. So they said, if you guys have any letters, once we dock in Hawaii, we can ship them off, right? So Muff had written in her letter that Muff had to practically push her out into the harbor of Hawaii.

She did not want to leave Hawaii and they had a pretty good sail down. They're right at Palmyra. There's so many small bugs, so many animals. It's like a jungle and all that stuff that's left over from the military, it's decaying. It just feels like this really scary eerie junkyard. It's just weird, but I'm here now. I just want to help Mac make the best of it. I did go inside to take a peek inside some of these crumbling abandoned structures and it's just a strange feeling. I feel like something tragic used to happen here. Maybe it's all the war stories cutting to my head. But then the next day and only got worse. I was at a loss for words. I ran into the biggest rat that I have ever seen in my life. It was like the size of a dog. Oh my god. Mac didn't even give her any sympathy. He told her, ah, the rats

are different here. They're vegetarian. They're not like the city rats. You don't have to worry about that. They're invisible so they grow 10 feet long. Yeah. They're not going to bite you. She's like, what the heck? Are you just want some sympathy? By now, there were only six people on the island now. Mac and Muff, Buck and Stephanie, as well as Bernard and Evelyn, the Leonards. Now, the Gramps, which is Mac and Muff, and the Leonards, they're getting along pretty well. They're both middle-aged.

They had similar values, and they were both really good at sailing very passionate. Meanwhile, Stephanie and Buck, they were there because they wanted to get high and give a big middle finger to authority and the system, plus Buck had a criminal record, so just saying. Buck didn't care that he was just getting high, and Stephanie was making an effort to try and befriend the other couples. Mainly because their food supply was really dwindling. Mack was also catching nontoxic fish every single day, the edible ones, yeah. Buck sucked at that. Not that he even tried. So I guess the gramsic fish every single day, the edible ones? Yeah, buck sucked at that.

Not that he even tried. So I guess the grams would feel bad for them, and would sometimes throw them a fish here and there, would invite them over for dinner here and there, and they said inside the sea wind, it was beautiful. They had plush carpeting. It was like a cruise ship. It was elegant. They had souvenirs from all over the world.

They had rich furnishings. They had a refrigerator powered by a generator. They had fancy wines. They had wine. Glasses made out of glass. There was even a workshop on the boat with every conceivable tool a person would ever need. Wow. They said it felt like a comfortable hotel. And when I got dark, they turned on a lamp. Buck and Stephanie were so shocked they hadn't seen artificial light in over a month. And when they left, Matt gave Buck a tin of tobacco and papers to roll his own cigarettes. Buck was giddy. Stephanie told Mack, you have no idea what you've just done.

You have a friend for life now and she left. But off the sea wind, the couple's problems were only getting worse. Buck had moved out, he set up camp on the shore with an old mattress that he found, and it was a mutual decision. They just both needed space and there wasn't enough room on the boat. Stephanie had also hoped that since he was gone, she would be more in charge of their dwindling food supply. But somehow, for some reason, Buck did not take it seriously, he would climb aboard and

eat his heart's desires. And then the Leonard's announced that they were leaving. Before they left, they did give Buck and Stephanie a small jar of cooking oil and some flour and rice pudding. And then there were two, two couples that is. But not for long. Muff sent another letter to her family with the Leonard's and she talked about how much she disliked the other couple.

She said, just our look, they have run out of sugar, cigarettes, and I don't know what else. Next, they're gonna ask us and I pray that they don't. Roy has this chain saw that he uses to cut down trees so they can get to the coconuts easier and it makes us furious. Jack told us the owners hate when the older trees or any trees are cut down really. To top it off, they've got these three dogs. I mean, the island is no place for dogs. They don't even have enough food for them. The two big dogs, they roam the island out of hunger, looking for anything that they can find to eat. What a

mess. Why did we have to arrive at the same time? The guy Roy, all he does is bum. He needs so much of everything. I guess one way to look at it is when we run out of things to give them, we'll just have to leave Palmyra, which is fine by me. How is Matt coding up there? He's definitely a more optimistic person. He hates them, but he knows that he shouldn't show it because they're on a deserted island with just them for. So he would spend most of his time exploring the island. Meanwhile, Muff is in the boat most of the time, just kind of sad.

Meanwhile, Stephanie and Buck, they're failing with their garden, just like everything else. They realized that a garden was harder than they thought it would be. Literally, that's what they think about everything in life. They realized that they didn't have soil and everything on the island was sand and rocks.

So they had to dig very deep to find some soil. And if they could get the soil, they needed to plant a few plants, right? But they were quickly eaten by rats and crabs. And then there was the argument. So they've got this limited amount of soil that causes a lot of energy to get. They had these vegetable seeds,

but also a little bit of marijuana seeds. So Stephanie's like, no, Buck, we need to prioritize food first. We need to plant all the vegetable seeds. We can't eat weed. And he laughed and said, speak for yourself. So he planted marijuana seeds. Stephanie was so sick of it.

All day, every day, she was just foraging for food, making coconut butter out of coconuts, fighting away rats and bugs, washing clothes, drying them, prepping dog food, cleaning, working on the garden. Meanwhile, buck would just sit there and talk about his big business plan with his friends. In a few months, they're gonna come over

with more supplies and more marijuana seats. Always gonna be amazing. One time when Muff saw some sprouts in the paper cups, she excitedly asked, oh, what are you guys growing? Buck looked her straight in the eye and goes, marijuana. Muff was so sick of them.

She was so sick of the couple mooching off of everyone's boats. She would literally yell at Mack. I mean, they keep saying they came here to live off the land, so freaking do it! Do it and stop asking for things! Mack hated the couple too, but he was tolerating them a lot better. And that's why he kept inviting them over and giving them stuff.

I honestly think it's, he just didn't want to get on anyone's bad side on this lonely island. So one night, Mac and Buck were doing guy stuff and Stephanie allegedly said that Muff opened up to her. And Muff said, I never even wanted to come here. I don't see why we had to just pack up and leave. We had a wonderful life in San Diego, lots of friends, family was there. I mean, everything was so nice. It was important for me to be near my family

and he keeps telling me to relax and enjoy myself, but I can't. He says he needs to discover something and he doesn't know what, and you know what, neither do I. Stephanie said that oddly enough, there was no bitter mint in her voice. It was just confusion. So muff is like really a supportive wife.

So Mack and Muff were able to get in contact with their friends from Hawaii. And they set up this every Wednesday type of conversation, which was highly illegal because broadcasting without a license is a crime, right? But that's what they were doing. Now, things were going downhill from what this Hawaiian friend said.

At one point, Muff was getting, almost getting attacked by Buckstog. And the couple didn't even apologize.. At one point, Muff was almost getting attacked by Bucks' dog and the couple didn't even apologize. They straight up just told Muff, oh yeah, sorry that he's trying to bite you, but next time instead of screaming, no, you need to say it in Hawaiian. She's looking at them like,

so you're telling me, I'm just out of luck. If I don't know Hawaiian, because these dogs are too big for this tiny island and they're starving. Like Muff was not blaming the dogs, you know. She's blaming the owner. Buck didn't even respond. He just stared at her and then went back to his camp.

Stephanie ran after him. I'm like, tell him you're sorry. No, I don't want to do that. And he started cutting down coconut trees. Are you trying to piss them off? They don't own this goddamn island, Stephanie, don't tell me what to do. So Muff channeled all of her angry energy into dieting. She just felt like she was unattractive because she was, you know, hitting her 40s. She also noticed that Mac wakes up every morning before the sun comes up, he's out there all day, every day.

Meanwhile, she's just constantly tired from the humidity and honestly the lack of nutrients and calories and maybe even depression She refused to look at herself in the mirror and she heartbreakingly told Mac that she hated her cottage cheese thighs So she'd stay on the boat and that annoying sound of buck cutting down another tree exhausted her even more But August 13th it wasn't that sound that bothered her. It was a motor engine. Maybe it was a friend that Buck and Stephanie talked about. Great, right? Just what we need more of. More useless people preaching about self-reliance and then begging us to feed them. Thankfully for Moth, it wasn't them. It was a Tom Wolf and Sanders. They were adventurers from San Diego. They had only come to the island for a few days, but it was long enough to have an opinion on everyone.

Tom Wolf said that he really loved Muffin Mac, and they pitted Stephanie because she was constantly worried about food. Meanwhile, they hated Buck. His first words to them when they dox were, hey, you guys got any dope? Buck's dogs look like starving, raging animals that would do anything for food. One of them even attacked Tom once, biting him on the stomach, and Thomas dragged him off and told Buck, next time, I'm not gonna hesitate shooting it. And Buck said, well, the next time, I guess I'll have some fresh meat to eat. Also, instead of fishing, like, you know, how everybody goes fishing

for a non-poisonous fish, Buck would just shoot at fish in the water. Good boy, goodness. Yeah. What? Yeah. What? Yeah. I mean, Thomas really, really worried about Buck. He didn't know if it was everyone's paranoia on the island,

but just something was off about that guy. At one point, he was exploring an abandoned building. Thomas was. And there were just stacks and stacks of rat poison abandoned, left behind. And the next day, he went back to that same building and the poison was gone. Said first Thomas didn't think much of it but then he realized, okay that's a little bit strange,

who needs that much rap poison, it's not like you can even eat it. So he felt weird enough to pull Mac aside on his last stay there and said, hey don't freak out, don't tell love, but just a heads up. Remember that rap poison? All of it is gone. Sure there's a lot of rats here but something about it is gone. Sure, there's a lot of rats here, but something about it was strange. The next day, Wolfen Sanders left. Muff sent more letters to her family, and she said, I think this place is evil. I think it is. Matt cut his leg again with the machete, this time killing a sand shark that was interested

in biting his toes off. I can't believe how many injuries he's had here, and hardly any injuries in the six years of our previous crews around the world. Meanwhile, Stephanie and Buck they were eating coconuts all day every day. Coconut ice cream, coconut milkshakes, coconut cookies, their supply was dwindling, and they got word that their friends were not coming for months. So they decided, okay, we gotta go to an neighboring island and try to buy some food. So they were gonna leave for an island called fanning, and Mack and Muff, they were trying to help. They were helping repatch their boat, fixing their motor, really just being good people, even giving them some cash to buy more supplies when they get to the island.

I'm sure they were hoping that they get to fanning and then just don't come back, right? But still, the goodness of their hearts, it's amazing. Now Mac and Muff, the day that the couple were supposed to leave for the island, a fanning, Mac and Muff were nowhere to be found. Their Hawaiian friend tried to make contact with them, no response, which was strange because once they got into this routine of every Wednesday's, Mac was never late. I mean, this guy, Curtis, from Hawaii, he would read letters that Mac and Muff's family would write to him. Then he would read it to them every once in a while, this was the highlight of their lives.

And he said, Mac, I don't know if you can hear me, but I'll try you again next Wednesday night. Same time as always, take care, pal. And weak later, he tried again, no response. And he knew about Stephanie and Buck. Oh my God, what if they ran out of supplies and they stole Mac and Muff's boat, leading them stranded on the island?

So the next morning, Curtis calls, you know, his wife and friend who called the US Coast Guard and he's like, well, shoot. We can't do anything until we know for the fact that the boat is missing. You have proof. Curtis is like, well, I'm telling you it's missing. Just because you can't reach them illegally by radio might I add doesn't mean they're in trouble. Boats sailed to different ports all the time. They might just be sailing right now. Yes, but my friends wouldn't have left Palmyra without contacting me.

I know something happened, I know it. Well, there's nothing we can do. So Curtis called up his good friend Martin. He worked for the University of Hawaii as a meteorological researcher and pilot. Wow, imagine having these connections in front. And Martin had been to Palmyra multiple times and since he was just getting ready to leave for fanning, yes the island he could fly over Palmyra because he's a pilot and do an aerial search of the island.

What? So Martin agreed he got on his aircraft and searched by air. He landed in fanning and sent Curtis an urgent message. There are no boats in the lagoon. The island is deserted. Both boats are gone. Gone. What? Curtis did not need Martin's confirmation to realize something was wrong. He was sure of it. Since the first time he was ignored by Mack and Muff, he knew. He knew something was wrong. He called authorities again, but even after Martin searched, they didn't care. So Curtis called everyone he knew to get a message out and not soon long after a beautiful elegant sailboat docked quietly in Honolulu with no name on the boat and it looked freshly

painted. Listen, boat people are like horse people. When a new boat comes to dock, they're going to see it, they're going to analyze it, they're going to look at it, they're going to be like, wow nice, but where's the unit? Let's talk to the unit. Oh, what'd you do with the butt? Where'd you get the, they're gonna do all of that. No name on the boat, that's weird.

A few hours later, the Coast Guard is informed. They call the FBI to report that a missing sailboat has been spotted at the harbor. And the FBI is like, what's that got to do with me? They're like, well, the owners are allegedly not on board and it's a documented vessel that's been reported missing for more than a month. Now the FBI out of giggles and gaggles, they decide to check it out.

Guess who happened to be at the dock waiting for the FBI? Bernard Leonard. One of the guys that had been there, I guess good people, right? He said for sure, that's the sea wind. But instead of Matt Graham, guess who I saw get off that boat? Roy Allen. Leonard told the whole story to the FBI about Stephanie and Roy, aka Buck, were all about

and what Roy was all about, Leonard told the FBI, you gotta look into it, for sure they stole that boat and the grams are not on that boat. They repainted it, look at it. The FBI said, well, what if the grams are just out shopping in Honolulu? Maybe they gave the couple a ride back. Who's to say that the grams are missing?

So the coast guard waited for someone to get back to the boat, and they would wait until the next morning. Stephanie and Roy were on a dingy boat with her tiny little dog. So it's like a smaller boat. And when they see the Coast Guard waving them down, Buck jumps into the water, hides behind a different boat. Meanwhile, Stephanie furiously paddles the shore and comically hides behind a giant plant with her tiny dog, thinking she's gonna get away from the Coast Guard and the FBI behind a palm tree. Uh, ma'am, we see you. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna have to come with us.

Oh, hey! And Bernard Leonard was there and he straight up asked Stephanie, are Mack and Muff still alive? She said, you know what, you'll never believe what happened. They invited us over for dinner and they said that they were gonna go fishing. They knew that they were gonna be out late to go fishing and they told us to make ourselves at home

in their boat. And after dark, we waited for them, but they never showed up. So the next morning, we go out looking for them and we saw that their dingy boat was capsized. It was flipped over in the water. We searched for days, but we didn't find any sign of them. We left a few days later on our boat, but our boat got hung up on a reef and when we couldn't get her out we went back and got the sea wind. Leonard looks her straight in the eye and says,

you would not have tried to leave on the Lola, not with the sea wind just sitting there. And she just stood there, staring back at him. She told the Coast Guard, well Mac and Muff drowned on a fishing trip and it was an accident. We searched for them for two weeks before giving up. Obviously, we couldn't call for help because we don't even know how to operate a radio. The last thing the Gramps told us was to make ourselves at home. And if that they didn't make it back, we took it as we can keep the boat of something happen to them.

Why did we repaint it? Well, because it doesn't belong to us, but we left the boat as much as the Grims did, and repainting it would make it ours, which is what they would have wanted. And when we docked, we didn't report them dead or missing because then the boat would have been taken away. But that's not what they would have wanted.

You know, they wanted us to have the boat. What? Okay, if you didn't nothing wrong and the Grims were killed in an accident, why did you attempt to flee when the Coast Guard came for you? Well, we came here on a boat that's not ours. That's why. Is that all?

She nodded, she was handcuffed, and led to FBI headquarters. She called her mom to bail her out, but her mom refused, because her mom was like, at least I know where you are now, and she hung up. Yeah. The next day, FBI agents were looking for Roy Allen. He even had his driver's license on the C-wind, but one of the FBI agents was casually talking to a DEA agent and was like, God, I'm looking for this guy named Roy Allen.

And they're like, what? That dude is buck walker and we're looking for him too. Are you kidding me? So now they know who to search for. Meanwhile Jack Wheeler and another crew sailed to Palmyra after hearing the news, they could not find the Lola stuck on a coral reef like Stephanie had claimed, so it's clear that she had lied. Here's what else they found.

There were ashes of some sort of campfire with unmatched prescription bottles, some sort of hair, and it was completely charred, cold black. So I mean, just weird. They also found a garden of thriving foot high marijuana plants They tried to get divers to search in the waters for the bodies, but there were so many sharks It was impossible to do it safely Eventually Buck Walker was arrested and the reason he was arrested which by the way in Hawaii It seems like if you know the right people you could maybe live off the land really for a while without getting arrested

But he just could not deny himself comfort. He checked into a hotel. He wanted a fresh bed in a warm shower. And they asked him, well how did you even get to Palmyra? He said, well, by boat, do you know any other way? So this guy's just an ass, like he's not trying to cooperate with FBI or anyone. He's so full of himself. He proceeded to tell the same story that they were invited over for dinner, the Grims went to go fishing and they never saw them again. Their boat was overturned, they waited two weeks, but they were not out there. They only repainted the boat because it needed a paint job. That's all!

How did you dispose of the gram's bodies? And he looked at the FBI agent and the face and said, f*** off. Um, ok. So it was decided that the two would be tried separately, and Mack and Moss family were distraught over the whole thing, traumatized. They had no idea that they were about to get a letter from Roy Allen and Stephanie. So Mac sister gets a letter and it said, this is written by Buck, it's difficult to write this as the news we have to convey is sad and it will be for you too.

My name is Roy Allen and we've returned to Hawaii from Palmyra where we met Mac and Moff. He proceeded to talk aboutra where we met Mac and Muff. He proceeded to talk about how much he loved Mac and Muff and how they were so close together and he was so overly polite. He talked about how he had nothing but praise for them and then at the end he asks if he can file an insurance claim on the sea wind because they had lost their boat which was valued at $10,000 and he loves the sea wind so much that he eventually wants to continue voyaging the world on the sea wind. He

wrote this letter from prison and he says I've also registered the sea wind and renaming her Lukahi. So this guy, I mean do you not understand you're in prison, you're gonna go down from murder eventually like right now he just had drug charges, but you're also writing to the victim's family members asking, so I'm gonna keep the person that I've just murdered. I'm gonna keep the boat. I'm gonna sail the world. Just say you know, love you guys, like what?

He also said anyway, we also found $400 aboard the, in cash, can we keep the $400 in cash? We're gonna use it to repair the boat. But if you want it, fine, I'll give it to you. So the first two trials, Stephanie went first, and it was just facing charges for theft of the sea wind because there was no evidence that they had murdered or anyone had been hurt on Palmyra, right?

She was found guilty on all accounts and sentenced to two years of federal prison. Buck was also found guilty on all accounts and sentenced to 10 years in prison. And Palmyra became famous for being the island that the couple disappeared from. People actually started going there because of the mystery and the so-called curse. A couple named Sharon and Robert went about six, seven years after. The couple went missing and they didn't go for the curse of the mystery. They went for the adventure. They stayed a few months. Sharon loved it. She swam with the sharks.

Yeah, she swam with the sharks. And one day she noticed something glistening in the sun on the ground. She walked closer and she screamed. It was a human skull. And nearby was a metal container. And it was giant. She opened it up.

It was filled with sand and more skeletal remains. Someone had tried to stuff another human being into this container with sand in hopes that they could just bury it and it would never surface, but the tide was just vastly varying on this island. So it looked like they had, you know, tried to bury it underwater, or like let it sink underwater, but it didn't work. She's like, oh my god, this has to be that couple that one missing six years ago. And it was a miracle that Sharon was there because it might not have been there a day later. They had some strong tides, the bones could have easily been taken in with the tides. So Robert and Sharon, they radio for help, the Hawaiian authorities, they rushed there, they get the remains,

the dental records confirmed it belonged to Muff. So with this, the couple was charged with murder. New details started coming to light that the body was somewhat dismembered before being placed into the aluminum box The body had charring as if they were trying to get rid of it by lighting it on fire and she was clearly shot Well, I mean she had a puncture wound to her skull, but some people would argue that it could naturally happen in the six years So her exact cause of death was undetermined, but like someone stuffed her an aluminum trunk. I'm sure it's not accidental. Stephanie was re-arrested. Yeah, she was out of jail at this point. She was living her best life. She had a full-time job. She bought herself a house outside of LA.

She was doing well for herself. Meanwhile, Buck was gone too. Not because he was released, but he had escaped from prison. And he was getting by by seducing middle aged divorcees who were unhappy in their marriage. So they later find Buck, they arrest him in his car where there were thousands of dollars of cash and tons of pills. Now the author of this book was reached out to by Stephanie's brother who decided to pay for his services because he is this famed attorney and he agreed to meet with Stephanie to potentially be her defense attorney. And I mean, of course, there's no way for him to be not biased at this point, but he claims that she had this very friendly open air about her. She smiled a lot, laughed at his jokes,

and he felt it was hard to imagine her being a killer, which is often the case. So I don't know about that one. She confessed to him, though, I'm guilty of making some mistakes in my life, but I didn't kill Mack or Muff. She kept urging, nobody killed them, Buck would never do something like that, like I get it, he's a weird guy, he has some arm drawberry charges, but that was during a rough time in his life, he's not going to kill people. I just can't see him killing Mack or Muff, they were so nice to us. I just don't get it, we played chess with them, they were good people.

Vincent's like, yeah, but the bones of drowning victims are shark attack victims. Don't show up in a middle box seven years later. Buck just wouldn't have done it. I don't, he just wouldn't have. Why is she still covering for him? I don't understand. They're already separated at this point, right? Yeah, I don't understand. I mean, there's some theories that maybe she would cover for him because of genuine love or genuine like, oh, I genuinely think that that person was a good person even though we broke up or maybe she was a part of it or something. But Buck also doesn't seem like the type to not go out of his way to let everyone know that she was

a part of it. So it's very confusing right? Which I, if Stephanie is innocent, she just might be the most frustrating person ever and I would, I'd be very frustrated to be near her because just the way that she's even talking about Buck just being so blind to his guilt and what he's capable of and I don't know just incredibly frustrating and I do have a little bit of doubts on her innocence. So for example, when they asked why she willingly took the C-wind with Buck, she said, well, I realized if we left it at the lagoon unattended, some vandals would come and ruin it. If we took their boat, it would be respecting Max love

for his boat, because we'd be protecting the boat. Which is like a really backward way of thinking. Like I don't know if I could ever sit there and say that. Vincent also told her, I mean, this case is basic math. When four people are on a deserted island, two of them are murdered, the remaining take off with their boat and they act as suspiciously as you and Buck did, most people would conclude that two are guilty.

Four minus two equals two guilty people, two killers. And if I take you on as a client, I have to convince them, four minus two just leaves one. That only Buck is the killer. 70 smiled at him and was like, good luck. I don't know if she was in denial. I don't know if she was depressed.. I don't know if she was depressed.

I don't know, but she never really took her trial seriously. At one point, she straight up told him because she was out on bail, she said Vince. My career is going well. I'm enjoying life. I can think of a lot of better things to do than go to Honolulu to be tried for murder. I mean, what an interesting way, huh?

Of thinking about your life or just the circumstance, no? I don't like. It's not selfish. Why go there, yeah? I don't like. It's got some better place to be, right? Exactly. Have you tried Disneyland?

I heard it's the happiest place on Earth. It's weird. Even then, Vincent found stuff you very likable. He said that she was bright and had this outgoing sense of humor and her smile went up to her eyes. He felt like there was nothing in her that suggested that she was bright and had this outgoing sense of humor and her smile went up to her eyes He felt like there was nothing in her that suggested that she was lying Now here's my problem with this I feel like yes good people maybe you especially as a defense attorney because I've never been one I don't have the experience and I am coming from a place of absolutely no knowledge

But I do think as a defense attorney you probably do meet a lot of people You probably do have a gut instinct that tells you something or some cues that you're looking for but when you're talking about deserted on an island you just don't know what type of things survival brings out in humans the nicest person I mean that's why we watch these shows like survivor or lost the nicest people could end up becoming brutal killers because their survival their own self instinct is at risk finally after 10 years of Mac and Muffie's disappearance, the trial started in San Francisco. Bucks trial came first, and we find out that not only did he tell his cellmates

different variations of how he killed Muff and Mack, which is pretty damning evidence, but he said that he would dress up as a pirate and he made them walk the plank. Now, there was no plank on top of their ship or the sea wind, but I guess any piece of wood would have done. But he said that he forced them at gunpoint to walk the plank and he threw chicken lever into the ocean to get the sharks all riled up and force them in. Oh my gosh. So I don't know if this is true, but he told this variation a lot. He also told another variation that he won the boat by playing chess and winning so much that Mac owed them so much money that he handed over his boat and stayed stranded on a deserted island.

Which by the way, Buck is not that intelligent, I don't imagine him to be better than Mac at chess. I'm just saying. Buck was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison, but with parole in 21 years. At that point he would be almost 70. Now for Stephanie's trial, the prosecution believed that she was just as guilty as Buck. She knew that they were running out of food, they had no safe transportation, it was a miracle that they even made it to Palmyra.

She also lied and perjured herself in order to protect Buck, I mean it wasn't going well for her. She had just as much motive to kill the Gr grams, or at least let them be killed. Or do nothing to stop it, do nothing to get them justice afterwards. In fact, she would benefit heavily from their murders granted if she didn't get caught, but still, she was benefiting from them being dead by getting the sea wind. So Vince's biggest shot was to have Stephanie testify and convince the jury that she was innocent, and her testimony was very compelling, which I'm not saying makes it true, but is This is biggest shot was to have Stephanie testify and convince the jury that she was innocent. And her testimony was very compelling, which I'm not saying makes it true but is very compelling.

Now I don't know, personally Vincent writes about Stephanie as if she's incapable of doing such a thing, that she was just a girl that was in love with the wrong guy at the wrong time, but I do think she had too many convenient explanations for her actions. And her story kept changing and she just said, maybe she's just weird, maybe, but I imagine if I still abode the last thing I'd say is well the owner's wanted me to take it. Like it's, I, what, I, and Muff hated her.

They would never say something like that. It's not even like they were friends. But here are a couple good points that Vince makes. So the charring on Muff remains indicated that someone had tried to char her remains with the torch, but it was abandoned before it was completed. So Vince suggests that it's because Buck was rushed for time. Why would he be rushed for time on a deserted island, you ask? Maybe because his girlfriend had no idea that he just murdered the couple. Now at the same time, you could argue that maybe he just

settled on a different method, and he realized, ah, charing the remains is not going to be as easy as I thought. But the second argument is incredibly compelling. So if both parties knew about the body and the aluminum container, why wouldn't they instead of leaving it on Palmyra or so close to shore where everyone was searching for the couple, why wouldn't they just instead take it onto their boat and drop it in the middle of open water, open seas, drop it into the middle of the ocean, where there would be virtually no way of it ever being discovered. Vince argued that Buck was not a man acting to trick authorities, but he was a man acting to trick his girlfriend Stephanie.

So after much deliberation, Stephanie Sterns was found not guilty of murder. Now Vince says it's very interesting because Stephanie is likable, but she's also very weird. So he thinks maybe that's why a big group of people out there think that she was guilty or she knew more than she was letting on. I'm not sure, you know, I don't know how I feel about this one. I feel like I imagined she'd have to know something a little more, right? You know that that 10th theory is really interesting. Like they drop it off.

They could just drop it off and get a bit of ocean. That's true. That makes sense. Yeah, that part makes sense. That's like the most compelling argument for me too. Everything else, I'm like, I don't know, right? Now, do I think that Stephanie is a very likable person? Probably not, because, you know, she still

did the wrong thing on so many different points. She didn't tell authorities that the couple were missing. She didn't do enough. She took the boat. She did act in her own self-interest. Do I think she's like a flat-out murder? Probably not. And neither did the court, so who am I to say?

But she did do some weird stuff. She did. So Buck tried to appeal his conviction, but it was overturned. He was paroled in 2007 at 69 years old. They did take pity on him because he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He wrote a book on this case.

Yeah, he did. He claimed that Muff died as a result of a love triangle that took a bad turn. Which like, what? Was she in love with you? What are you trying to say right now? What's going on? Anyways, he died in 2010 of a stroke. Meanwhile, Stephanie returned to her job,

went on to earn six figures, drive a nice car, pay off her car, her house, and not much is known about what she chose to do with her life, but apparently it went really well. Matt Graham's body was still never found to this day. And as for Palmyra in 2000, a nonprofit group called the Nature Conservancy bought the island and it was declared a U.S. National Wildlife Refuge in 2001. It is still uninhabited with the exception of researchers and volunteers that dock there for a few weeks or sometimes a few months. But I mean, it's a fascinating case, no? Do you guys think that Stephanie is guilty? Do you think that she at least knew more than when she was letting on? Or do you think that she really just was a weird one?

I think she knows more. Yeah. And I feel like she just fights everything. You know how at first, the family brain up all his criminal background and she has all the justification of every crime. So I feel like she even, she was told that, oh, I killed them or bug killed them.

You could just say something and she would be, okay, that makes sense. And do you think that's because she's goalable or maybe she's not a great person? I guess the question. I think she's weird, I don't know. Yeah, because a lot of people are like, was she really manipulated into like lying for buck or is she not a great person? And does this case ever make you want to visit a deserted island? What scares you the most about the deserted island?

People. People. It's always the people. Stay safe, and I will see you guys on Sunday for the mini-sode. Bye!