Rotten Mango - #161: The Styrofoam Head Killer (Serial Killer Ned Snelgrove)

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

Everywhere he went, he was kind. He was kind to the woman he passed by in the produce aisle, the female cashier, and even the woman next to him at the red light. Maybe he was nice because he loved to picture all these women naked and in his bed. Sure, some would call it crass but was Ned’s favorite thing to do. Regardless, the women were nice back. They liked Ned. He was well dressed, clean cut, and seemed gentle. They had no idea that he was fantasizing about strangling them. Staring into their eyes while they took their last breath. Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. Butta Bing Butta Bing Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue.

And let's talk about Edwin. Edwin like to turn errands into a fun activity. I mean how fun is driving around, picking up groceries, maybe you're doing that right now, maybe you're stuck in traffic, maybe you're pumping gas, it's not a blast of a time. But he tried to people watch and be a nice polite stranger, he would help the young mom pull the cart out of the cart line, he would make eye contact with this cashier and ask her about her day. He was the type where if you were stopped at a red light next to him, you glance over, you make eye contact with his cashier and ask her about her day. He was the type where if you were stopped at a red light next to him, you glanced over, you make eye contact with this man, he would nod and give you a friendly little smile. But at the end of the day, you never really know what's going on in this nice man's mind.

Because he made it a game. To picture any attractive female he saw in public, he wanted to picture them naked and on his bed. It was just a thing that he did. Ever since he was young, he started doing it maybe he was around 8 years old, he did it with his school teachers, he was exploring his sexuality, figuring out what he liked. He would watch those, um, those movies, you know, and he said that he had these full body erections that were so powerful.

It felt like his heart was racing so fast, so loudly, that it felt like it had jumped into his mouth. And in these movies, the sounds they would make, he was just so into it. And that's why, anywhere he went to the post office to trade or chose, any woman that he walked by doesn't matter their age, doesn't matter if they were with their kids, doesn't matter if they were minding their own business. He would picture them naked, laying on his bed, being strangled to death, because that was his ultimate fantasy.

So what movie are you talking about? He actually watched a lot of normal movies. Oh, actual movies. Like I'm talking actually watched a lot of normal movies. Oh, actual movies. Like I'm talking like Mission Impossible James von Spine movies where females buys were strangled to death. Oh, so he's, oh, got it. And he would have full body erections, he said.

I don't know exactly what that entails, but I guess we're gonna find out. So, as always, full show notes are available at rottmangopodcast.com, but I highly recommend checking out a book called I'll Be Watching You by M. William Phelps. It's one of those books that you get sucked into and you don't even feel like you're reading anymore. You feel like you're rather just watching a show in your head. It's truly a deep dive into the mind of an egocentric

sadistic serial killer. Phelps even corresponded with the killer in jail. There's lots of interesting tidbits of their letters back and forth. The killer was to prepare annoyed about his letters being read, so he had this intense, I wouldn't call it quarks, but like things that he did, he would staple the corners, with the letter page inside the envelope. He had these intense mood swings where he would staple the corners, it would the letter page inside the envelope. He had these intense mood swings where he would tell the author, this is gonna be a blockbuster hit of a story.

You're gonna make history. And then immediately he would turn around and accuse the author of being against him, not being on his team. The author also personally interviewed Carmen and Karen's family as well as Mary Ellen herself. So go pick up a copy of this book. I mean, it's incredible work. With that being said, Mary Ellen stepped back into her empty apartment.

She had been gone for almost two months now, and coming back to her apartment was almost this eerie feeling. All of her plants, a dozen or so of them, they had been so green at one point in their life. They had been so colorful, so alive. I mean, even just as short of a time as so of them. They had been so green at one point in their life. They had been so colorful, so alive. I mean, even just as as short of a time as two months ago, but now they were all dried up and dead. She walked into the bedroom, ready to just throw her bag in the corner, jump out onto the bed, and pass out. But she forgot though that the entire room was covered in blood.

So she would have to get to cleaning. It was an exhausting few weeks traumatizing, really. Mary Ellen had no choice but to roll up her sleeves and start scrubbing the blood off the sheets, the floor, the bed frames, the walls. I mean, it was everywhere. She didn't stop until her apartment felt normal again. She got rid of the dead plants, the blue powder scattered throughout the apartment, the blood,

everything, and just as she was getting back into her normal routine, she saw that someone had left a note on her apartment door. She peeled it off and it said, I think you best leave. Then the next day, another one, I think you best leave. Then another, I think you best leave, I think you best sleeve, I think you best sleeve, I think you best sleeve. Mary Ellen was shocked. She knew who was leaving these notes, it was obvious to her. It was the land lady, the woman that almost killed her.

Okay, let me explain. To insinuate that the land lady was an attempted murder would be slanderous, so that's not what I'm doing. She actually wasn't the one that tried to kill Mary Ellen. That was somebody else But the Land Lady definitely plays a big role in this story So let me take you all the way back to the day that Mary Ellen moved into her new apartment The first thing Mary noticed about her land lady was

Wow, this woman is it's kind of out there. She's a bit eccentric She would leave notes on Mary's door practically every single day, and it wasn't important things either. She would leave notes that said, when it's cold, you have to leave the upstairs bathtub water trickling. Yeah, she left those kind of notes every day, even when it wasn't cold outside. So it's just a bit strange. She had all of these rules, listen to the land lady had a thing for keys. So the main entrance to the apartment, which by the way, it's just the two of them. It's a duplex, meaning it's a single-family home that was converted into two livable separate units. The landlady lived downstairs, Mary

Ellen, she would live upstairs. Now in order to get into either of these units, you would go through the main front door, which from the outside kind of just looked like a regular front door to a regular house. They both had keys to this main front door. So the main front door, you open it and it's just this small hallway. Immediately to your left is the first floor's door, which is the landlady's door to our unit, and then you go up the flight of stairs and you have a door into Mary Ellen's unit. So really, it's just a flight of stairs in a small little space and two doors into the separate units. No, the landlady would constantly tell Mary Ellen, this front door is not a normal door. It is never to be left unlocked. I don't care what time it is. I don't care if you go

outside for five minutes or maybe you go into your apartment for two seconds, it is never to be left unlocked. She pounded this into Mary Ellen's head over and over again. In fact, the landlady was so crazy about it that you actually needed a key to lock it and unlock it from the inside. Essentially, not only could you be locked out, but you could be locked in. And imagine this, for some reason you're locked out of your apartment. You don't have the keys to the main door, you're just locked in this tiny little hallway that includes a flight of stairs, no windows, nothing.

I mean this is not great, this is not a great design. In fact, it's an illegal design, because imagine a fire breaks out, you're just stuck in this hellhole of a hallway ready to meet your end. But the landlady she didn't care, she would always bark at Mary Ellen, always lock it, never leave her return home without locking the dead bolt, always. Sometimes Mary Ellen felt like she would come home and the landlady would put her ear up to the door, from inside her unit, and listen to hear if Mary was locking it behind her, locking the main door from the inside.

That's the same situation that Mary would find herself in later. Locked in this hallway, the main door refusing to budge open, because it was locked. There was no way in, no way out. She couldn't go back upstairs to her apartment because a killer was hiding in there. And the land lady was standing opposite side, on her door just listening, refusing to open it, refusing to get Mary Ellen to safety. She just listened. Mary Ellen was losing a lot of blood. She was weak. It was all over her shirt, her blouse everywhere. She said that she felt numb. Her

body was running full of adrenaline and she stumbled and even fell the last couple of steps. Before she ran to the landlady's door and she was screaming, come on, open the door, please, open the door. Mary knew that she didn't have the key to the main front door. She knew that it was locked, so she kept screaming at the landlady.

She knew that she was standing on the opposite side of the door, but she was just too scared. Mary, Mary, is that you? What's happening out there? Please, just open the door, please, just open it. He's trying to kill me, open the door! Mary knew her situation was bad. She was bleeding out, and the landlady refused to help.

And the killer, he was just upstairs, probably coming down to get her at any minute. She knew that he would never leave her alive. I mean, no way, think about it. She's a witness. If she lived, he's going to jail. Mary looked at her stomach and chest. She had been stabbed multiple times, but she needed to save herself. So she gets up and she flings herself with all of her strength at the landlady's door. But it was locked in it wouldn't budge. She kept trying just throwing

her body at the door, willing it to open. And the landlady is screaming at her. What's going on? Who is it? What's out her. What's going on? Who is it? What's out there? What's going on? Who's there? And Mary kept crying. Please just open the door. But her voice was getting weak and she was getting out of breath and she had lost too much blood, so she collapses onto the ground, staring at this landlady's door, and suddenly she feels a hand over her mouth. The man whispered in her ear, shh, be quiet, we have to go back upstairs. Mary said in that moment, hearing these words was the weirdest feeling of her life. She said that he said it in a way that almost made her think that he, the killer, believed

she was playing a game with him, like the two of them were just consensually playing hide and seek and Mary was a willing participant in all of this. It felt like he thought that they were playing a game and he thought that she liked it. It was just so odd. So he starts pulling off the stairs and she's screaming help me please just open the door. Be quiet please. Who's there with you Mary? Listen, I don't know if the landlady was aware of what's going on at this point. If she did, either she's too scared or she doesn't want to get involved. Both are shitty responses, but okay.

So he keeps trying to pull Mary up the stairs, but he's losing his grip because of all the blood. Like I mean, there was so much blood everywhere. He can't even get any friction on holding her up. When he realizes that he's not going to be able to pull her out the stairs, he runs back into her apartment by himself, and Mary drags herself down the flight of stairs again to plead with her landlady.

She kept rattling the door handle, but it was slipping out of her hands because her hands were covered in blood. This was the only door between her and safety, and the landlady was blocking it. So she's rattling, slamming on it, but she felt herself getting weaker and her body was falling. She was physically sliding down the door. She saw holes in her body and blood was splirting out of them. Her legs were

starting to give and her knees were buckling and she thought to herself, this is freaking crazy, like really crazy. This kind of stuff only happens in the movies. Think about it. I'm inches away from safety and I'm gonna just die right here. A woman is too scared to let me in and so I'm gonna die. Right, like I can't get through a stupid wooden damn door so I'm gonna die. I wonder what was going on in her head in these moments. Maybe it was like the movies. Maybe it's the feeling of like, how did I even get here? Maybe she thought about her past a bit, which speaking of, we should probably explore that. Mary Ellen was born to two orphans.

Her parents actually met when they were both 13 years old and they decided that they were going to start their own family together. So they save up all their money and they buy a nice little ranch in Newark, New Jersey. They had four kids. They were raised as classic farm kids. Like the family lived off the land. There were not a ton of neighbors around. It was a pretty isolating experience. Don't get me wrong. Mary Ellen said that her childhood wasn't abusive or horrible. Her parents were hardworking. Her dad actually became an industrial engineer. They were there for their kids. There were a couple struggles here and there.

I mean, the fact that Mary Ellen's mom had agoraphobia, which is an anxiety disorder that causes you to be terrified of, places or environments that you can't really control. I think the first thing that comes in mind to people is the inability to leave one's house. And that was exactly what Mary Ellen's mom had. She just never left the house. She never even left it to walk around the farm,

around the house. She never even got the mail outside. And on top of that, she had another disorder, and this one was extremely rare. It's called H-H-T, that's abbreviated. Essentially, it's a disorder where you're small and medium-sized arteries are prone to damage. So you could just have random intense nose pleats, other forms of severe bleeding in serious

cases. So sometimes Mary Ellen would come home and her mom would be lying on the kitchen floor from a nose beat and there was just blood everywhere, like a crime scene. So because of that, Mary was always forced to help around the house a lot. I mean, she was doing this as young as five years old. She had to grow up quick. She was raised Catholic. Her family was super religious.

Later, when Mary tells her mom, hey, mom, my husband is beating me. Her mom is like, well, you're Catholic, so don't even think about divorce. Like what? But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's talk about Mary Ellen in high school. She had it rough.

Listen, I don't know what to say. Mary Ellen was just getting dished out obstacle after obstacle. In high school, she had to wear a full body brace. Yeah, she had severe scoliosis and she was just walking around in a full body brace. She was bullied. Kids are evil. It was rough on her. And since then, she's just been kind of a loner.

She put her whole heart and soul into studying and it's not like she could even date first of all her parents were so wild about her meeting a guy dating a guy talking to a guy and second of all It's really hard to find a high school boy who's like really attracted to a full body brace And then I guess that's alarming if he's too attracted to a full body brace So she would meet her first husband at a Catholic social dance She was dancing on the you know on the floor and he was hot He had this blonde hair blue eyes good looking guy Oh, and he wasn't from New Jersey. He was from the city

He was from New York City and he had already served in the army for like three years He was three years older than her It just seems like he had this big, big life and his world was full of possibilities. And of course, Mary Ellen, the farm girl, is like, yeah, that's attractive. That's what I want in life. I am attracted to this.

She was swept off her own feet. The two get married and they just start popping out kids. Within a few years, just like her mother, Mary Ellen becomes a stay-at-home mom with a bunch of daughters. And she's got a husband that likes to drink, that likes to pop pills, and abuse all of them. It was not a good marriage.

In fact, it was a pretty dangerous marriage. But Mary Ellen felt like she had no choice but to stay for 17 years. I think part of it was that Mary said, the abuse wasn't regular. It was very sporadic. She said that her husband only got violent maybe a couple times a year, so it wasn't a daily weekly or monthly thing.

So a few years past before Mary even realized, okay, this is a pattern, this is not like a one-off thing. I mean, it's obviously still bad as a one-off thing, still illegal, still domestic violence, still scum, but you get what I mean. On top of that, her parents made it clear that they would not support her for divorcing her abusive husband. So that made her feel like, okay, I divorced this asshole. I'm going to be broke, a single mom, and not only do I not have any support for my family or the community that I once loved so much, they're going to hate me. Like, not only are they going to not support me, but they're going to hate me. Wow. Okay. But all of that changed when Mary was prepping for

her 40th birthday and she just kept asking herself do I really want to live the rest of my life with this freaking asshole. At this point I either leave right now or I die next to this guy. So she ended up leaving. She took the kids, rented the dingiest apartment. I mean it was a really leaky apartment. Not just the faucets but tell tell me why, like, the walls were leaking. Okay, it was just not a good place. Which, like, side note, the abuse had gotten worse as the years went on. So when a Mary's kid say that you would just wake up and you have no idea if it's one of those days where dad tries to kill mom. So now Mary's anxious. She can't sleep at night. She thinks her ex-husband is gonna come and kill her kids.

She said that I was childlike when I got married, and in many ways I was still childlike when I left 17 years later. What does that mean? Because I think she never really had a chance to grow into her own. She was always with this partner, there were a lot of things that she didn't understand about the world or didn't know how to do. Maybe she didn't feel emotionally 40? So you know, life is tricky.

Now, she gets away from her ex-husband, she gets a job, makes friends, gets a better apartment, things are looking up, but not for long. I think Mary was just lonely. She wanted a companion. She hadn't been alone for the past 17 years of her life, so she goes to church and meets a Catholic widower. I mean, he seemed nice.

He seemed chill, so they get married and mean, he seemed nice. He seemed chill. So they get married and turns out he's an even more abusive husband. And she's getting frustrated with herself. And she's like, why do I keep attracting these types of men like flies? I don't understand. She quickly divorces him.

And now she's starting over for the second time. She's 44, but she's optimistic. She's excited to leave everything in the past. She gets a new job, pays well. Her kids are grown, they're out of the house. She even found her dream apartment. It was in a nice area, low crime rate. Honestly, it just had that like homey, cozy vibe. Not just from the house, but the whole community.

I mean, sure her landlady's a little bit weird and is like obsessed with locking the doors, but Mary was too busy living her life to really care. She had a lot of catching up to do. She felt free for once, and she was 44. She was ready to get back into that social scene and make friends and have a life, so she found herself heading to a singles dance at a local bar. Oh, she knew. She knew if her family found out about this. They would shake her heads. They would

just be so disappointed. But she didn't care. She's just trying to live life. So what? She's not even trying to hook up with anyone. And even if she was, what's the harm in that? So she goes to the barn. She's like the center of everyone's attention. She's beautiful, attractive, had beautifully clear skin, green eyes, dark brown hair, she was in shape, and she was just a blast to be around. She genuinely has such a good night and it's well past midnight, when she's about to leave, when this clean cut, blonde, very well dressed, like I'm talking suit and tie, guy at the bar, gestures for her to come over.

I mean, he looked handsome, he looked wholesome. And she's like, uh, what the hell? I mean, I'm already out. What's another five minutes talking to a nice guy. And he was as she expected very charming. They had some small talk. He was a computer salesman at a huge big company called Hulett Packard. His name was Ned. They talked about how they thought computers were the future. Mary had another drink with him. And after about 30 minutes, he made his move. He's like, I would love to see you again, Mary. Oh, God! I think you're way too young. So Mary's 44. This guy looks about 30. Maybe not even 30. He still had that boyish ear about him, this boyish innocent cocky charm, but it's charming,

and Mary just was not in the market for a boy toy. Besides, her son-in-law just turned 30 so something about that just feels wrong. Well how old are you Mary? I'm 44. Well, you should get some points for being honest about your age. So Mary was intrigued because this 30-year-old boy wasn't thrown off for dare I even say disgusted by her age. Rather, he was complimenting her about being honest. I mean, I don't think that she wanted the whole regular smell of like, oh my god, but you look so good for your island, I've never got this.

See, like Ned seemed Frank, he seemed open, and it was a very sincere response. It was very likable. And he asked her for one more dance before she left. And he agreed. She ends up walking back to her car alone with a smile on her face, like what a pleasant night. But in this cold, dark, creepy parking lot, she starts getting a bit anxious. It's about 2 a.m. everybody's still at the bar. She can't find her car. It's like looking for a new car and a car dealership. There were so many cars. And they were all

like the same cars. What the hell is going on? Why can't I find it? Maybe it's stolen. I was sure I parked it here and she starts wandering around getting more and more anxious because yeah, it's pretty dangerous to do that. And she hears this voice behind her. Hey, what kind of car do you have?

She turns around and sees Ned. I'm just like, oh, thank God. She's almost like relieved. It felt like she knew him. And now she wasn't alone in this parking lot where a different stranger could kidnap her. So he helps her look for her car, even waits for her to get in,

but her freaking car wouldn't start. I mean, yeah, her car is old. It's true, it has a lot of miles on it, but she just had repairs done. I mean, no way that the car's freaking dying, but then again, it was dying on the way here at Stalled. The engine wasn't turning on. Okay, that's not good.

And she keeps trying to turn it on and he's like, hey, be careful, you're going to wear the battery down. Maybe it's slutted. Just leave it alone for a few minutes and try again. It might turn over, sometimes that happens. Just hold on tight. And Mary waited until Ned pulled up his car in the empty spot right next to her. They both sat there in their own cars,

windows down, talking to each other for about 10 minutes, and he says, I guess you could start it now. She tried her car, engine turned on, but it sounded a bit bumpy, just a bit off, not good. Shoot. And she looked at Ned and she's thinking, oh man, do I ask him for a ride? Do I ask him?

And she's like, do you mind following me to the highway, at least, just to make sure that I can, like the car is not going to break down in two seconds? You know, this is back before they had cell phones. Like, if the car breaks down, what are you going to do? She's just stranded at 2 a.m. alone in her car. At least this guy seems nice. He's like, um, okay, yeah, sure.

I could just follow you home just in case if you're not too far. Yes, that'd be amazing. Thank you. So she led the way back home with Ned following closely behind in his car. She parks in front of her house, and before she could even get out, Ned was at her door. And he's like, pacing. I didn't realize your house is so far from the park, and I- please use your restroom. She didn't see the harm.

I mean, this guy was nice enough to make sure she got home safe. How could she say no, really? She unlocked the main door, and the two of them stepped into the cramped hallway and she could almost hear the landlady's voice in her head, always luck it even if it's for five minutes. The meddling landlady was probably listening to her through the door right now, hearing this man's voice judging her for coming home so late, bringing a guy and having a one night stand, that's what she's probably thinking. So married dutifully, locked the door behind from the inside, like the landlady told her. She takes Ned into the apartment, and while he's using the restroom, she gets a block

of cheese out from the fridge. She's like, okay, it's 2 a.m., I'm drunk, I want a cheese board. For herself, of course, not for Ned. She wasn't into him like that. She was actually ready to see him gone so she could relax a bit. So he comes out and says, oh my God, are those your kids on the wall?

And Mary Ellen smiled and she's like, oh, everybody asked me that. No, those are actually my grandkids, yeah. I'm a really young grandma. Imagine that. For real? Yeah. Oh, wow.

Wow, your daughters are very pretty. Thank you. And Ned walks up to her in the living room. And he walks until he's directly in front of her. And she said there was something different now. Ned didn't sound the same. He sounded different. Something was wrong.

And I should try to start a new conversation because she's uncomfortable. He bends down and he tries to kiss her on the lips. And she backs up and she's like, oh no, I don't want you to do that. I really don't know you. It makes me uncomfortable. Just, uh, what?

Mary said she was starting to panic. It felt like she had done drugs in the bathroom or something. He just came out a completely different person. Side note, he didn't do drugs, but it's just saying a lot. It was very creepy. She felt like there was no way this was the same guy from the bar. He didn't seem to be present. He didn't seem to be in control of himself, it was just terrifying.

He grabbed her by the shoulders and tried to kiss her again. She pushed him off stop it, but he wouldn't, and he started kissing her forcefully, and then he threw her onto the couch, jumped on top of her and started fondling her. And she's pleading with him like stop, you're hurting me, please stop. But he kept fondling her breasts and just complete silence and he ripped her shirt open and he ripped off her bra and she said she saw another shift in Ned. His whole demeanor changed. It's like this awakened something inside of him. So Mary had larger breasts and unbeknownst to Mary at the time Ned had a fetish for big breasts and he silently

fondled her breasts, and when I say fetish, I'm not saying like a liking, it's actually really intense. Like a fetish is just, you know, well, I don't even call it a fetish. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like liking big boobs, nothing is alarming about that. It's just something that you're attracted to,

but this is the type of person. If he saw big boobs, he would feel the need to regardless of consent, grab them. Like this is the type of guy we're talking about. So he silently fondling her breasts, and when he looks up, they catch each other's eyes, and he's just silent. He's already thinking about all the ways he wants to kill her. Suddenly, out of nowhere, he throws his hands around her throat and starts squeezing.

He places both of his thumbs together in the middle of her throat and just starts digging them in. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly how to strangle her. She couldn't move. She felt herself drifting away. And when she loses consciousness, Ed starts fully undressing her upper body. He didn't care for her skirt or her vaginal area. It didn't interest him. It was all about the boobs. He and Druster and started strangling her some more. And Mary remembers at one point.

She was slipping away into unconsciousness and she looked at him. Look directly in her eyes. They were making eye contact and he didn't say a single word. But it's like he was fascinated watching her. Fascinated watching the life slip out of her eyes. And it was terrifying. So when Mary came to, she had no idea what time it was. She, her first thoughts were, oh my God, I'm alive.

How? And where the hell is this guy? So she looks down and she realizes she's on her bed now. And she was posed. It's almost as if someone put her legs and limbs in a very specific way. Not like they just tossed her body on the bed, like a doll of sorts.

So she starts kind of groaning and moving around and she's so sore and so dizzy and in the corner of her eye, she sees him walk back into the room carrying something silver in his hands. She's like, what is that? And he jumps on top of her and she's so confused. She said she felt this cold feeling in her stomach and saw Ned's hand go up and down up and down and she couldn't help but wonder what the hell is this guy doing right now and then it oh my god the cold feeling oh my god he's stabbing me in the chest but for some reason it didn't hurt at least not now she was still too dizzy the room was

spinning she didn't have the strength to scream. She said what happened next felt almost involuntary, as if she had no choice like her body took over. Like it was some sort of instinct. She just reached up and raked her long fingernails all across his face, focusing on his eyes. She scratched his retina and tore up the skin on his face. Net, the little bitch baby, jumps off of her, runs out of the room, cuz he's in pain. Yeah, we'll try getting stab Ned. Anyway, Mary Ellen, she runs out of the room, holding the blood

that's starting to pull in her palms, and she runs downstairs, but the main door is locked. And that's how she finds herself trapped. Dying out, bleeding out in front of her landlady's front door. Just think it about, wow, what is this? But miraculously, the door opens. Just a tiny crack. But Mary, through herself at the door, pushes her way in, call the police, slay lady, close the door, call the police, he's still up there.

And she collapses in her apartment. And what seems like moments later, the police are hovering over Mary, asking her questions. Her apartment unit was empty. They said whoever did this to you is gone now. But he took your keys. As a trophy, because he didn't use it to exit the main door. He jumped out of your window, landed on the grass, on his feet like a cat, and drove off.

Mary Ellen was in critical condition. She physically recovered, but she had PTSD. I don't know if a therapist told her this. I feel like they did, because this is kind of messed up. But she felt like Ned chose her because she was vulnerable. She said she felt like, you know, after being abused all of her life, he probably saw it on her face that she was in, quote unquote, easier target.

And it was hard for her to come to terms like that. I think it was just, she's trying to blame herself, which honestly, how is this her fault? So this isn't furiating, but her family sucks. I hate her family. Mary's own brother after finding out what happened. Brother. Imagine having a protective brother, and then this is the shit that he says. He said, well, who was she with? What was she wearing? Oh my God.

Was she shouldn't have been out there looking for hookups? Maybe she was asking for it. Yep. Super cool. It took her family three whole days before deciding that they wanted to visit her in the hospital. Like fine, maybe you disapprove of her completely normal lifestyle by the way, but this is just cruel.

Like you're evil. What is religion to you about being evil? I don't know. So Mary thankfully she survived and she told the police everything she remembered. The guy had even given his name, he worked for a computer company, she gave the computer company's name everything, and she begged the police you have to find him, he's gonna kill somebody he tried to kill me. And Mary had no idea of knowing.

I mean nobody did. That Ned would go on to kill another woman, Carmen. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in them? Aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's going to catch us? What a police. It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them.

I would suit up in my uniform and we're going to want some drug dealers, and I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy, man, but I loved being a dirty mother f***er.

So the attempted murder of Mary Ellen happens. And like I said, it was easy for police to find Ned. Ned had told her everything, so they arrest Ned. And he tells the police, whoa, whoa, you're getting confused. What did she tell you? She's, oh my God, let me explain. Okay, so after leaving the bar that night with Mary, she invited me back to her apartment. She's like kind of a thirsty little hoe, that one.

And her car was fine, she's making up all these car issues so she doesn't seem like a loose woman. Anyway, we get to her apartment and she's coming on strong to me. I mean, she's like taking off her shirt and braw, which I will admit was too much for my sexually disturbed brain. Once I saw her breast, I just couldn't help myself. It's like this animal took over inside of me and I felt like I was a different person. At some point, we were on the couch and I was on top of her fondling her, and she was enjoying

it. But then, like, I don't know where. I just, I couldn't help my hands. It's like they had a mind of their own. I saw my hands, reach out and grab her neck. And it was like I said completely involuntary. It is like, yeah, I couldn't control it. It's really not my fault.

I think my brain is just wired to confuse sex with violets. Okay, he confessed to everything. Yeah. Oh, you're gonna get so mad. And after seeing her on the couch, she was just so vulnerable, you know, and that always gets me going, like a helpless woman that's vulnerable and non-consenting to anything. Like, it's something about it is just, wow, it just tickles my pickle. It is her fault, though, if you really think about it, don't you think, officer, for being so

vulnerable, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time? Why did she even invite me in, unless, you know? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Ned demanded that Mary Ellen be put on trial for endangering herself. I wouldn't be surprised if he's like, wait a minute. Isn't it her fault for almost being a victim of me? Like, why is it my fault? So Ned said Mary Ellen passed out.

He dragged her into the room and there was just no turning back. He had one of those whole body erections and he said of course none of this was premeditated. Otherwise why would I be seen with her in a public place? Why would I tell her my real name? It was just the other side of me taking over. I started masturbating onto Mary's body and then I realized oh shit she's still breathing she's not dead. An inopanic, a ran back to the living room, an inopanic, I picked up a stupid knife. Stupid. It's a very interesting word choice, don't you think? I mean, it kind of implies that he wishes to have chosen a better weapon. He said, well, I botched it. She didn't die. And like I said, the blood is a turn off for me.

The blood ruined my fun So I started stabbing her and she was screaming and I listen I just wanted to leave at this point, but I was locked in I didn't know where the keys were initially to the front door So eventually I found them, but I'm like I could just jump out the window, you know, that's kind of what happened His story was a lot less detailed than Mary's and it was obviously a giant complete freaking lie He said well Mary Ellen obviously is that fall. Like she's just embarrassed now to admit that she invited me back to her place to have sex and now she's embellishing her story to cover

up her tracks and you know. How does inviting someone over meaning related getting injured or almost killed? Like it's like the same of like, what does what I'm wearing have anything to do with you being a rapist? Exactly. That's so confusing. Also, the thing is he just admitted to strangling assaulting molesting, stabbing, and attempting to murder someone. And he's like, well, she's kind of like lying about her story at all.

It's a little dramatic. Like, it wasn't that dramatic. How do you even, how do you sit there and admit to like these worst crimes and they're like, well, I think she was lying on this part. So Ned's trial would take place two days after the attack. He was planning, he was planning on using a self-defense case. Let me explain. He was gonna argue that not only did Mary Ellen invite him back to her place, but after getting out of the bathroom, Mary Ellen was sitting there topless in the living room.

Oh, you know, because he's dressed so handsome and just every girl is waiting to throw her bod at him. Just waiting. And he said, whoa, oh, I don't want any part in this. You know, I'm just a good guy. I just, I just needed to use the restroom. But she started forcing herself upon him. And I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but to net it doesn't happen, okay? And she wanted some rough sexual activity. And he declined.

So she lunged at him with her cheese knife. Also disclaimer, like I'm not saying we've doesn't happen to men. It definitely does. But I'm saying, net is not, he's a horrendous person. This story is infuriating. Let's be real. And he's like, well, she lungeed at me with the cheese knife. And I had to strangle her in self-defense. Somehow he walked out of jail on a $50,000 bond.

And Mary Ellen was terrified. She was finally returning to her apartment to get some peace. But now that Ned is out and her land lady is wanting her out, she said, the best way I can describe this period in my life, it's I felt like an animal that was wounded. I wanted to crawl back to my hole to recover because that's what you do when you're wounded.

You wanna be in your home and you wanna be with what's familiar to you in order to recover, but now I'm being kicked out. Mary had to move during all of this. I mean the physical, emotional, mental stress of moving, when she's recovering from strangulation and stab wounds, the PTSD, I can't even imagine. On top of that, she still had to work. She said she was terrified of being fired, but it was so hard for her to focus. She would talk to a client over the phone and forget the entire conversation as they hung up. She would randomly burst into tears in the office, and then the flashbacks.

She said she had flashbacks of Ned just staring at her, into her eyes with his hands around her throat, watching the life drain out of her. She would lie in bed, wide awake with the lights on, and she could hear Ned breathing in her ear. She would have to double check under the bed and the closet, I mean, she was terrified. She said, I swear, it felt like he was right there. I would free-sup, I could feel him on the bed behind me, just as he was, and I could hear him breathing and breathing louder.

Sometimes I can see him standing over me, just watching me. And it was a lot for her, and his trial didn't help. Ned was showing up to his court dates like an 18-year-old boy and an 18-year-old that on high school senior with his all baby face showing off that little innocent look. Ned and his attorney even managed to get a plea agreement eventually. So Ned stood in front of the court and said, I understand the charges against me but I don't know why I assaulted these women. It's just like something came over me some sort of change and the color drained from people's faces.

In the courtroom, did you just, did you catch that? These women? Women? Did you just say women is that plural? Is there more than just Mary Ellen? The police kind of already knew. The police had been looking on him for a while now. They had been watching Ned. Because you know those TikToks of where people pretend to trip and fall on an orange?

And they somehow find themselves running down the stairs, tumbling through the kitchen, stumbling into the pantry, landing on their back, where a pack of Oreos will magically drop like a slip-and-slide into their mouth? And they say, ah, man, what a weird day. I broke my diet today. But it wasn't my fault. Well, very completely believable, unforeseeable, unpre, what a weird day. I broke my diet today. But it wasn't my fault. Well, very completely believable, unforeseeable,

unpreventable situations do happen. And that's what Ned said about his quote unquote first kill. He said that he and Karen were making out on the bed, and they tumbled off of it like a K-drama. It was romantic and cute and funny. But when they landed on the floor, they both giggled and Ned's hands happened to land so close to Karen's neck. And since his hands were already there, it was just a random coincidence that they started closing around Karen's neck.

And I'm serious, this is how he explained things later to police. Like, I'm not being dramatic. He said he closed his hands around her neck so that she couldn't breathe. And from there, you know, you know what happens? When you eat one Oreo, you gotta eat the next one. His urges just took over and he had to kill her. He had to squeeze as hard as he could for the next 15 minutes.

I mean, let's say you fell and Oreos fell in your mouth. You would have to eat it, right? Just like how Ned's hands were accidentally around Karen's neck, he had to squeeze. He had to kill her. So let me backtrack a little. Let's talk about Karen. Karen was considered the wild child of her family, which is really not saying a lot, because honestly she was not a wild child.

She would just forget to tell her mom that she was going to the movies and she wouldn't be home till after dark. Which, yeah, it's dangerous because nobody knows where you are, but I wouldn't consider it the peak of teenage rebellion. Karen was, listen, I don't know about her friends, but Karen was a great friend. She was the type to hand out friend-diversity gifts, which is so freaking cute. Karen's mom was a very strict woman. She was like the disciplinary figure of the family. She really had to be. Karin's dad had polio. Now polio is a disease that really worsens over time.

It leads to the patient having muscle weakening. You're easily fatigued. You're in a ton of pain. There's joint pain, joint stiffness. It's a chronic pain disease that impacts your entire life. A lot of people with polio can become bitter, reclusive, even severely depressed. But Karen's dad was the glue of the family. Like, he was always the smiling happy guy. He was the type of guy whenever Karen's mom would freak out and get mad, he just always knew how to crack a tasteful joke, in a way that everyone would start laughing. Even Karen's mom, who was just in the throes of her anger, would start cracking a smile. So Karen and really her whole family's lives were torn apart when Ralph, Karen's dad,

passed away. It was incredibly traumatic. Like even despite his polio, Ralph was expected to live a full life. He took his meds, he went to his checkups, he did the right exercises, he ate the right foods, he never complained about his joint pain or his sleepless nights, he worked hard every single day like any other person, he didn't let the pain ruin his life. But it did significantly shorten it, he was only 47 when he passed. Barbara and Karen, Karen's sister, they sat there and they were just in shock,

it said that their dad left them an audio recording and they couldn't even bring themselves to listen to it for weeks. Ralph couldn't even see his girls off to college, which was his dream. He worked through the pain because he wanted his two girls to get a higher education. It's not like he had these crazy expectations. He honestly didn't even care what they studied. It's just he wanted to give them the chance. So after high school, Karen goes to college, studying to be a veterinarian in an college in New Jersey called Rutgers. Elizabeth, Karen's mom, she remarried,

and by wearing Karen, we're honestly super supportive. They just wanted their mom to be happy, besides. They need their mom to have somebody, they're both in college, focusing on their studies. And in college, Karen meets a guy named Edwin Fales, Snellgrove Jr. Yeah, what a frickin name, okay? Edwin hated it himself.

He wanted to be called Ned, because Edwin Fales, Snellgrove Jr. just sounded so ancient. So Karen and Ned, they start dating. It's super casual. Like, when I say casual, I'm talking, Karen did introduce him to her family, but very casually, just like, oh, he dropped me off.

You guys ran into each other. It wasn't like this whole elaborate, oh come meet my parents. She was just never really serious about the guy. Her family was relieved by that because Ned was not impressive. He was kind of weird actually, super quiet, and not in the, oh he's just so shy type of way. But in an almost like, are you hiding something type of way? Like why aren't you opening up?

Even with the most basic things. There was just something off about the guy. Nobody could really put their finger on it. Maybe it was a gut feeling. Even Karen's friends were confused about, you know, how they were together. They were the opposite. They just didn't fit as a couple. There was no chemistry.

Nothing. They just all assumed Karen wasn't really into Ned, which she wasn't. And this bothered Ned. He found it insulting. He took it personally. And he was really into Karen. He lost his virginity to Karen. So he was almost... Yeah, he was obsessed with Karen. So you're like, okay, is this a love story or what? I mean, maybe it could be if it weren't for I don't know Ned because Ned was horrendous with girls Maybe he was just a horrendous person. He loved to invade a girl's space and get in their face He loved getting physical with women who did not consent like that was the type of guy

Like he wouldn't go and rape woman at least not right now, but he just um It's like that you can't really tell the police You can't even really tell someone without feeling crazy, but he just hugs you for a little too long A little too close his hand placement when you're hugging him. It's just a little weird He's like the one that kind of will fix your hair while you're having a normal conversation with him and you're like Hello, I just met you five minutes ago. Why are you pulling my hair out of my face? And you start panicking now every time you see him and like the hair is on the back of your neck stand up and you just, you send some sort of weirdness but you're not gonna, you're not gonna say anything really because it's not like he's going

around blowing up small animals. It's really hard to write him off. A lot of people figured that he was just overcompensating for his lack of confidence. Maybe there's something else. Maybe Ned was just a sexual sadist that had homicidal fantasies, and the only time that he could get a boner was when he saw a pretty young woman get murdered in a movie. Maybe he liked to imagine women in vulnerable positions where they can't defend themselves, or maybe he's just a shy guy with some creepy traits. I mean, how do you really ever know? In any case, Ned always begged Karen to stay with him, which she tried to break up with

him on countless occasions, and he would always beg and beg and beg, but after they both graduated college, she made the breakup final. She told him, look, I love you, but I'm not in love with you. I really enjoy your company. I want us to stay friends. Let's just be friends. Ned was devastated. He told his sister, I am confident that I will never feel this way about any other girl. Ever again, I need Karen in my life.

I love her more than any other woman that I've ever met. How could she treat me like this? I mean, I tried so hard to make her happy. What do other guys have that I don't? Meanwhile, Karen was thriving. She got a job as a vet. She was renting her own place. She was living her best life. She still had her weekly calls with Ned

because he called every single week saying, Hey, what about now? Has anything changed? Do you like me now? Karen would always turn him down nicely. And, you know, especially because Christmas was around the corner. She was going to an old college Christmas party. She had a Christmas dinner with her family where she was going to introduce some to her new boyfriend, Philip.

She was really into Philip. But he was busy working during her friend's Christmas party, so he would have to skip that one. I mean, she was a little sad she wanted to introduce him to all of her old college friends, but anyway, she's going to have a good time. Ned was there, which was not awkward. And she was a little sad she wanted to introduce him to all of her old college friends, but anyway, she's going to have a good time. Ned was there, which was not awkward. I mean, Karen Mende, when she said she wanted to stay friends. And on top of that, they hadn't seen each other romantically for over like 16 months now. So Karen walks up to him, hey Ned, what's going on?

How are you? Hi Karen. Oh, you know, I'm just trying to pick up girls to sleep with. Okay. Okay. Cool. Okay. Okay. Cool. Whatever.

Weird. That did not bother Karen in the way that Ned thought it would. She really just went back to catching up with old college friends. And sometime around 2am, she decided to head back home. Ned said that later, he and Karen coincidentally, happened to leave around the same time. Other party goers begged to differ. They said Ned watched Karen walk out the door and then followed her out, like he was a man

on a mission. This was a coincidence though, their cars were parked very close together, Karen ended up coming after Ned so truly a coincidence. So Ned rushes to his car, follows Karen, and he said, well we practically live next door to each other so of course I'm going to be driving in the same direction as her. This was a lie. He didn't live near her.

Now, Ed also claims the last minute instead of going home, he wanted to stop by Karen's house, her parking lot in the apartment building to make sure she got up safe. Another lie. I mean, I think we've established that net as a bit of a liar, right? But he continues his story of what happened that night.

According to Ned, he pretty much followed Karen home, but not in a creepy way since he lived nearby. They actually even like shared the same parking lot or whatever. Anyway, after they both parked their cars, Karen approaches him. And says, hey Ned, you want to stop by the apartment real quick? And he's like, yeah, okay, sure. This is not really, that doesn't make sense. It's far more likely that Ned approached her, and Karen was probably incredibly uncomfortable

that, you know, her ex is, okay, for one, that's weird, but secondly, Philip was coming over after his late shift, so imagine he walks in on her and her ex at 2am in her apartment, like, she genuinely did not want this, it's just weird. But according to Ned, she invited him inside and he accepted. Now I'm not saying that Ned broke in, or forced himself in. I think it's likely that he begged for closure or just one last conversation, and Karen felt so bad that she let him stop by for what she thought would be a quick 10 minute talk. And I say this because there's no signs of forced entry.

Now according to Ned, as soon as they entered the apartment, Karen came on to him. They start making out and Karen takes off her shirt and bra. And remember, Ned's got a thing for boobs. And he said the side of Karen's boobs was enough for him to lose it because he has a boob fetish. He just couldn't control himself anymore. The side of her boobs made him lose all control. He said in that moment, something changed, something dark took over. There was no going back. They were making out on the bed, and it was all still playful. But he had all these scenes in his mind. They were taking over. His fantasies were taking over. They fell off the bed in a funny cute romantic wrestling type of way,

and like I said, he said it was one of those TikToks, where he just, his hands was so close to her neck. And he just, he had to. He had this overwhelming sense of pleasure and power, and he liked it. He made sure that she was unconscious. And he loved the idea of having a helpless woman completely unconscious, just there for his pleasure. That's how he phrases it.

He took off her clothes from the waist up and it was end-quote driving him crazy. He had never experienced an erection like this one. It was almost intoxicating. He started masturbating on top of her, but she started to come too. And he realized, oh my god, I didn't kill her. So he panicked. And he was, which by the way, the whole, oh my god, I didn't kill her Ned goes on frequent tangents to the police to the judge about how it's so hard to kill someone because his hands are a little small And he was like if I just had big hands So does that not mean he has intent to kill he's a killer? Yeah, so he panicked he was stressed You know if she woke up she would call the police and he would go to prison.

So he runs into the kitchen, grabs a steak knife, runs back into the room and stabs Karen in the stomach. He said that Karen started making these animalistic noises, and he liked the noises, but he didn't like the blood. He was actually really upset. The blood was a bone or a killer. He was disgusted now and totally turned off. God, so, so sad. His erection was ruined. The blood ruined his fun, but he felt like he had no other choice than to stab her. He had to do what he had to do. I love that not raping someone and not killing someone is out of the realm of possibilities for this scum of a human.

But like you know, he had to do what he had to do. So since the erection was gone, he's like, well, there's no reason for a prolonged stay who took the murder weapon and ran off. So, since the erection was gone, he's like, well, there's no reason for a prolonged stay. He took the murder weapon and ran off. Karen's body would be found two days later when she failed to show up to her family's Christmas dinner. Her stepdad and Philip, her boyfriend, decided to break into her apartment. And honestly, I'm kind of thankful it wasn't Karen's mom and the sister, at the very least. They found her in a pool of her own blood, and this is the part where you're infuriated, you know, because

What happened to Karen? I mean you're saying that this is before Ned attacked Mary Ellen So why was he free to attack Mary Ellen? Should Nevee and Jail for the murder of Karen? Like this wasn't even a great planned attack It wasn't meticulously well covered to the point where nobody would even suspect Ned everybody suspect a Ned Ned was the prime suspect really he was the only suspect There were so many people at the party that was like oh, yeah, the guy followed her out Into the car like the day that she is murdered Philip her new boyfriend had an ironclad alibi the family wouldn't have done it

There was nobody else. It was just Ned But back then there was no DNA testing and there was no murder weapon found. So other than a few witnesses of a bunch of drunk people at a Christmas party saying, oh yeah, Ned followed Karen home, there was really no proof that Ned was involved. Even though the police knew that Ned was lying, it was hard to pin evidence against him. Well not even pin but like fine evidence against him. When Ned was interviewed by the police, he started blaming random people. He even blamed Karen herself,

talking about how she's the type of person to accept a hitchhiker, or even accept a ride from a stranger she doesn't know. He said, look, she was friendly to strangers, but she wasn't a tease, but she wasn't a girl scout either. You're like, what does that mean? Okay, it sounds like a roundabout misogynistic way of saying, she wasn't a virgin, but she wasn't like the sluddiest person I know.

Just shut up Ned. Karen was not a promiscuous person, and even if she was, so what? So what? What does that have to do with her murder? Like what? And to top it off, Ned said, well, she didn't really know any black people. This was out of nowhere by the way, and the police were like, what did you just say? What did you just say?

Oh, well she didn't know any black people. And there were no black people at the party. Incinuating that whoever did this must have been black. Like it was so puzzling. What are you even saying? At this point the cops realized we're getting nowhere with this guy so they let him go. And the bitch got away with it. So you're like wow, who's this net guy?

Just so I know what type of guy to avoid in life. Let's have a word about Edwin Fale's snelgrove junior. Edwin was pretty close with his dad, but it said that nobody really knew Ed, like really knew him. I mean they knew basic things about him, He loved baseball, he loved his younger brother, probably not as much as baseball, but there was some love there. Ned's younger brother would say, Ned didn't have a nasty malicious bone in his entire body. Ned did well in school. A lot of words that people used to describe him were, ambitious, successful, intelligent, confident, capable, athletic. And in high school, Ned was part of the National Honor Society.

I mean, academically speaking, he was exceptional. He was active and extra curriculars. He wrestled. He played baseball. He loved the piano. That's where he felt the most comfortable. The guy is literally a walking star college application, if I'm being honest. He loved piano to the point where he could play for hours at a time. He could even reproduce a tune that he heard only once. Which kind of sounds like he has

perfect pitch, but there's no confirmation or any additional information on that. So anyways, Ned wasn't the nerdy guy in school though. In fact, he was pretty popular, like not awkward at all. He seemed like a not only would he grow up smart and competent, but everyone thought that he had the perfect CEO personality. Even the touchy-feeliness. Most CEO, just kidding. Just kidding. Not kidding. Be safe. So the only thing about Ned was his OCD tendencies. This is like what his parents said, the only thing that was alarming about him. Sometimes he would put on a shirt and take it off and put it back on six to eight times before school. the same shirt in a row. Later he felt the need to keep detailed records of his mileage, his gas receipts, newspaper articles, just everything.

But again, that's not really a cause for concern. So for college, Neta Tens Rutgers, and he was seen around campus as the handsome polite, extremely friendly, sometimes too friendly guy. Like sometimes he would just put random people into choke holds, but not actually hurting them, you know. The guy was passionate about his choke holds, which I just... I'm sorry I have to go on this little tangent, but have you guys ever seen two guys trying to put each other in choke holds?

I swear to God it sounds like I'm making this up, but I think I've seen this at least like five times in my life. It couldn't essentially speaking, it's always two guys, or at least from my personal experience, and they're like, hey, try to choke me. Hey, try to choke me. And it's like always at a party or something. They're like, come on, come on, come on. And they do. And the guy is holding another guy's head in between the crooked of his arm, and that guy's face is turning all red, and then they tap out on the other guy's arm, and Everybody else is just sitting and watching and wondering out loud really like who thought the patriarchy was a bright idea Why are these guys choking each other what is happening? Like I feel like I'm losing brain cells just watching this interaction right now. You can't tell me you've never tried this

I think it's usually like kids trying to fight like that's kind of what the position to get in mainly in high school I saw a lot of high schoolers do this. Yeah, I mean not like a like a freaking party trick like hey Yeah, it was all set of party every time I saw it. Oh, and listen There are things that other genders do that are equally dumb But imagine telling this in history books the home of sapiens of the 21st century use this method as a mating call The male home of sapiens would wrap their little arms around the neck of the beta male home of sapiens to assert dominance in front of the 21st century used this method as a mating call. The male homo sapiens would wrap their little arms around the neck of the beta male homo sapiens to assert dominance in front of the uninterested

female homo sapiens. Lovely. Animal planet, Natuio, please call me. So Ned was that guy. He was just going around in college, putting people in chokeholds, and he thought it was really cool and really fun. It wasn't alarming, and I think that's why this, that reminded me of that.

It's not a moment that you see and you're like, oh this guy's a serial killer, this guy's a psychopath. It's like just a kind of normal thing people do, but he wanted to be different. Not always wanted to be different. It was a weird trait of his. He had this fish bowl in his room that didn't have fish, but it was filled with pieces of paper and each slip of paper had a name on it. Every week he would pull out a piece of paper and write a letter to an old friend of his. Someone was like, hey, why do you do that? Like, isn't that a waste of time to even like these people?

And he didn't respond. So everybody got the vibe that he just wanted to be mysterious. It's all different. What? Yeah, that was the vibe. He just wanted to be mysterious. It's all different. What? Yeah, that was alive. He just wanted to have people guessing about him. He wanted to be Batman, like that kind of thing. He wanted to keep grave detention. He loved that his parents saw him as this amazing, promising child, the social butterfly, the academic genius, the piano proud of Jay,

but also a wrestler like he did it all. And in college, it starts to get to his head. He became disrespectful, arrogant, cold, distant, even his own parents. It felt like he turned stuck up and snobby, like he was better than them. Later some of Ned's college friends remember him talking on the phone with his parents,

and they thought, while this guy is emotionally abusing his parents, like Ned demanded they do things for him and if they refused or asked questions, he could be scathing, condescending, just belittling them. Which is wild, but there wasn't even darker side that Ned was hiding. Ned had these thoughts, these urges. He claimed that he hated it.

I mean, it's straight out of a movie. He's like, oh, I was fighting with this other part of myself like a sinister darker side of myself. I just had these urges in these fantasies I don't know how much of this is true but he was having a lot of fantasies it all started when he was in the second or third grade so he said somehow he was exposed to a movie where a young beautiful woman was raped and murdered and he said watching this beautiful woman in this vulnerable position where she could not fight back.

You could just do whatever you wanted to her, I guess. A beautiful female rendered helpless gave him an erection and not just any erection, he said it was the most powerful erection of his entire life. And if you add on that this woman has big boobs, oh, he said it was an enormous sexual arousment just by looking at beautiful young women with big breasts, I mean, sure, it's like kind of exciting, but looking at the same young, beautiful woman with big breasts who are completely powerless and helpless and incomplete control by somebody else, he just couldn't even help himself. Sometimes

he would get these erections just by watching someone sleep, like even in a movie, just a woman sleeping. He wishes he could stand over them because it just did something for him. But not as much as if the same girl was being killed in a movie or a TV show, though is the ultimate satisfaction. He said, I cannot even come close to describing the feelings I get when I watch females. Yeah, he said females. When I watch females in these positions, my heart rate increases to a point until I think my heart is in my mouth.

I become dizzy and my hands start to sweat and I get erections like never before. So since then, anytime I saw anyone, a teacher, a classmate, I would start thinking about knocking them out, strangling them particularly, and carrying their limp naked bodies into my bed. He would do this with practically every single woman he ever laid his eyes on. It didn't matter. Stranged out a grocery store, he would imagine killing her and bringing her body to his bed. He would do this with practically every single woman he ever laid his eyes on. It didn't matter. Stranged out a grocery store, he would imagine killing her and bringing her body to his bed. His Starbucks barista did a matter he thought about strangling her.

His mom's friends, he thought about it. He said everywhere he looks or even talks to a female, he would think about it. He would sit there and think about how to do it. He would pull up to a red light and imagine the woman next to him and the car next to him was lying naked from the waist up on his bed Completely helpless He was in complete control. He said and I quote purely there for my pleasure That's how sick these fantasies were Growing up he did everything he could to watch movies where attractive women were being strangled He thought about what it would feel like to wear a heart rate monitor during watching these movies.

He wanted to see what his heart rate looked like. It was incredibly fast, he knew that, because he was incredibly attracted. He thought to himself, God forbid I'm alone with a woman like that. My urges would consume my mind. He wrote 99 times out of 100 times I can contain myself, but sometimes I wonder

if I will be able to manage the urge much longer. He said having his hands around a woman's throat felt like taking an entire bottle of pills, like having an electric shock shoot up your body, there was so much adrenaline, so much emotion this sensation was amazing. Later Ned wrote all of this to a judge and he said, even writing these words, I can barely contain myself. I can feel the adrenaline once again just writing about it,

racing through my heart, my hands, my legs. I'm picturing it all as I sit in my cell. It gives me the same excitement as I once had, while living through these kills. So Karen was his first victim, and he calls her and I quote his first kill. Ned was upset when the police questioned him for Karen's murder.

Yeah, he was upset because honestly it was her fault. So after he just said this whole little woman, she'd be all, you know, they're like, bring him back in, we gotta ask about Karen. So after he gets caught for Mary Ellen, they're like, we need to get Karen's thing on him too. He's talking to the police and he's upset. He's pretty much confessing in a sense

because he got a plea deal. And he's like, listen, I don't want to stab her. I hate blood. Like it ruins my erection. Why would I want to stab her if it's going to ruin my fun? The only reason I stabbed her was because she woke up. I mean, she shouldn't have woken up. That's her problem and not mine.

If she just died when I strangled her, I wouldn't have to go through all of this like I wouldn't have had to kill her with a knife. In fact, it's kind of Karen's fault for letting me into the apartment. Like, I couldn't control myself and she should have known better. Can I be honest? This feels like textbook, I would like to imagine men like this don't exist. So he's like, it's kind of her fault. Like, she should have known better that I can't control myself. Okay. He also said that it had nothing to do with Karen being his ex girlfriend. He killed Karen because she was and I quote, in the wrong place at the wrong time, which I just hate that saying because it implies Karen did something wrong.

Like she chose to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like no, Ned, you were born and that was just wrong. So because of this, Ned kills Karen and he felt so bad after where it's he claims, that he tried to take his own life. He allegedly swallowed a whole pack of sleeping pills in a bit of iodine. Believe it or not, it didn't work. He didn't die. I don't think he really swallowed many, if any.

So he decided that he was just going to live on, live his best life. Why didn't you get therapy? Why didn't you get professional help so that this his best life. Why didn't you get therapy? Why didn't you get professional help so that this never happened again? Why didn't you turn yourself in? He said, well, I didn't want to get professional help because killing Karen was honestly a really terrible experience for me, and I was pretty thankful

to not be arrested. I just, I mean, yeah, I have these crazy violent sexual urges, but I would never allow myself to be in a situation like that ever again. Where I could potentially lose control. I don't know, the whole thing is just mental gymnastics. It's like the Olympics, okay? So Ned still deserves full punishment for his actions.

Yes, yes he does. But maybe, maybe he's sounding a little bit remorseful. No, because almost immediately after Karen's murder Ned went to a friend's wedding and ended up having consensual sex with one of the bride's mates in the storage room during the wedding. So this guy's just horrendous. He gets away with Karen's murder, meets Mary Ellen at a bar, and at this point he had a good career, he was on his way of becoming a top executive at a computer company, he was making good money, grew up mustache, had friends,

seemed like he had a pretty good life honestly. Then the attempted murder of Mary Ellen happens, and like I said, it was really easy for police to find him, and during his court hearing he lets the word woman slip and everyone is like, did he just admit to the murder of Karen too? The one that the police were trying to get him to admit to and confess to, but never succeeded. So under his plea agreement, there would really be no justice. Ned would plead guilty and get a maximum of 20 years. For not only the attempted murder and assault of Mary Ellen, but the murder of Karen, he

would get a minimum of 10 years in prison and he would be eligible for parole within 11 years. I mean, this is the worst plea deal ever. It's horrendous. I guess the prosecutors cared the worst plea deal ever, it's horrendous. I guess the prosecutors cared more about getting a conviction for Karen's murder on the books, than about how much time was served for it, which is just strange.

And even stranger is that Ned really didn't have to work out a plea deal for Karen's case. So you know how he let it slip in the courtroom, he said, women, well, when the police questioned him, it's not like they had new evidence. He could have just said, oh, well, when the police questioned him, it's not like they had new evidence. He could have just said, oh, I'm like grammatically incorrect. That's not my fault. The police were no closer to getting him in for it.

But he just felt like he wanted to confess to it. It's almost like the ego side took over. So now that you're all caught up in prison, Ned writes an impassioned letter to the judge talking about his feelings. He thought it would help him get released earlier, and maybe even get an appeal for his conviction. In his letter, he described what happened to both Karen and Mary Ellen. He talked about how he developed these strange urges when he was in grade school, and how later this just grew into this uncontrollable need to commit violence against women.

He just wanted to attack women, and put them into a state of not being able to defend themselves, like he got off on it that gave him a boner. It gave him underlined enormous sexual arousment, seeing good looking woman with big breasts rendered unconscious and incapable of defending themselves. It was amazing. So Ned's letter to the judge was extremely graphic, like he described his crimes in intense detail, and it was clear just by reading these letters that Ned was reliving it, he was getting the same sexually sadistic pleasure all over again, which is weird because, you know, he's writing the letter to make everyone think that he learned from his actions.

He even said in his letter, I'm not some predator, like the green river killer, like some lunatic that just prowls the streets for victims. No, these women were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. It was obviously mutual fault. The letter did not actually show any remorse or even any apologies, no sympathy. Honestly, the whole letter was a narcissistic rant. He was sad that he ruined his life

and he cries every time that he thinks about his parents and how disappointed they are. The fact that you know how sometimes people can fake remorse at the jail and he doesn't even know how to do that. That's just how scary. Exactly. Yeah.

What's scarier? Someone who can fake these human emotions better or someone who can. Who can? It's so far gone. It's so far gone. This person you can't predict what they're about to do because they would just fight it. And the fact that this mentality or I don't even know what you would call it, this idea is so ingrained in their head

that they think that the judge is gonna read it and say, you know what, it kind of was the woman's fault. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, so there was really no mention of the victims or their families, except when he was blaming them for everything. So glad to see he's thinking of them.

Ned tried to reassure the courts that he would be a great member of society because as long as he wasn't allowed to be aloneure the courts that he would be a great member of society because as long as he wasn't allowed to be alone with a female, he was not a threat to society. So, I mean, yeah, great idea. Fucking remove all the women from society. We don't even need them to begin with, right?

How dare they leave the house without a male escort? Let's train them all up so that this one idiotic homicidal disgusting lunatic can be comfortable and free from the walls of prison. Come on, girls. Let's stay home. Ned wants to be free.

We should do it, Ned wants. So fast forward to Jessica. Now, I don't know if that's her real name. Let's call her that. Jessica was sitting on her couch, staring at the sweating man in front of her. So the door-to-door sales guy trying to sell her a subscription to some frozen food. He was stumbling over his words and even then, you know, frozen food does sound convenient and easy.

But cheese wise this guy sweating so much, maybe I can bring him a fan to cool him down. Maybe his nervous, maybe first day on the job, maybe he just needs to make a sale, or maybe he's just one of those people that just sweats a lot, you know, there are people like that. They just sweat all the time. Jessica had no way of knowing that in that moment, it was because the frozen food salesman had a body in the trunk of his car, sitting in the driveway.

And that frozen food salesman is our good boy Ned. So yeah, Ned gets released from prison after serving only 11 years of his sentence for the murder of Karen and the attempted murder of Mary Ellen, and he would go on to kill again. Ned said his time in prison was like time off. He could kick back, relax, and reflect on his life. Yeah, fuck you Ned. He had no remorse for his actions,

and honestly all prison did was feed him for free for 11 years. He even bragged to a cellmate. You know, I've essentially got away with Karen's murder. The only reason that I was even indicted for it is because I chose to confess. Otherwise, I would have gotten away with it completely. I'm sure that he found getting such a short time in prison for murder.

It really struck to Zego. So after his release, he moves from New Jersey back to Connecticut to his parents' house. He had grown a bigger mustache. And while in prison, he also developed a fascination for something else. Ted Bundy. Ned said Ted Bundy is a genius.

This is exactly what I thought when you were saying, talking about him at the beginning. He was coming into the outside. Hey, let me take you home. Yes. Look, so presentable, it's just that persona in that they switch become the serial killer. Yes.

Ned loved Ted Bundy. Ned and Ted. Wow, he thought Ted was so smart for committing crimes that were far from his house so that it was hard to trace him. He was impressed that Ted Bundy had such a methodical sense of awareness of the police. It always felt like he was one step ahead of the police. So anyway, after being released, Ned starts hanging out a bar called Kenny's Restaurant and Bar. And he was a frozen food salesman at this point.

He would drive to customers' houses, pitch frozen food deliveries that his company would later deliver, and he's the type of guy that called himself a food consultant, rather than a salesman, because the salesman was beneath him. He was really butt-hurt, as you can see. He had gotten a pay cut from before, you know. The commission on frozen foods is nowhere near as lavish as computers. He had to leave his cushy job

because he had to go to prison, remember? And he was upset, he felt emasculated, he felt like he deserved a more higher title. He also had some other insecurities going on. He was freshly 40, he had a tomb around the side of his neck that was the size of a grapefruit, but it was benign, and it was uncomfortable and people stared at it, so that made it hard for him to talk to women.

Honestly, not even because of his tumor or his age. Like women were looking past that. It was mainly his incredibly sexist misogynistic jokes. He would say things like, hey, you're cute, I guess. Nobody asked, but he would say you're cute, I guess. Nobody asked. But he was like, you're cute, I guess. But you should dress more sexy. Like wear some low-cut shirts and skirts and pair it with some boots. He would critique their appearances like the first time they meet him at a bar.

Like you just sit down and he's like, you know, you'd look better if your shirt showed more boobs. And of course the woman wanted to say, okay, yeah, I'll fix my appearance when you get your tumor checked out, Ned. But they didn't say that, of course. Like get out of here. Who are you to tell me about my looks? So anyways, Ned is at Kenny's bar quite a bit, and he was really there because he wanted

to make money. He was asking everyone there to fill out a credit application for American frozen foods. So let me explain. The credit application costs $25 to fill out. You send it to the company, your credit checks out, then you can start paying for frozen foods delivered on a subscription basis. But Ned would foot the bill for a lot of the patrons at the bar. Which remain blue-collar people with not so great credit.

So everybody knew that they would be rejected. Even Ned knew. Ned said, I will pay the $25 for your credit application, and on top of that, I will pay you $25 in cash right now. Why you ask? Because regardless of if it went through or not, Ned got commission for every credit application that he filed. And it was more than that, so he was making more money. And not a single pack of frozen food would be sold or delivered. Because most likely these people would be denied based on their credit.

But the person applying would get $25 for free, so it seemed like a win-win to a lot of people. And one of those people was Carmen Rodriguez. So Carmen Rodriguez was Puerto Rican, in her 30s, and she was set to have perfect skin, long, flowing brown hair, and regardless of what she was wearing, it was clear that she had large breasts. Now Ned was infatuated from the minute that he laid eyes on her. They made small talk here and there, and since both of them were frequent patrons of Kennies, they became somewhat friendly.

September 21, 2001. Carmen walks into the bar already tipsy. She sees Ned, and they're talking, chatting it up. He buys her drinks, they play pool, and Carmen left with Ned. Now it doesn't seem like she was leaving with Ned to hook up with Ned, but more so, he probably offered her a ride home. And she agreed. But she was never seen alive again.

A little bit about Carmen. She was the fourth of 10 brothers and sisters. She was really close with her family, but slowly one by one, all the kids started to leave the house, go explore their individual lives. And Carmen's main exploration, lied with her fascination with older men. Carmen just had a thing for them. Her dream was to get married to an old rich guy and never work again. And that's fine, right? Except the fact that she's 14. When she's 14, she ends up marrying a 4D-year-old man in becoming pregnant soon after. So the couple break up, which by the

way, I mean obviously this 4D-year-old man is disgusting and what's wrong with him, but also, you know, where are the adults in this moment? It's hard to critique them because later, obviously, Carmen's family, I feel for them and she was viciously murdered for no reason, but it does make you question, like, what was going on? Why was this 14-year-old allowed to marry a 40-year-old man? That doesn't make sense. So now Carmen moves back in with her mom and her child in tow and she quickly starts finding other older men to date and she marries another guy soon after and had more kids and she didn't even seem to be into her new husband. She spent more time at her moms than with her new husband and just it was bad. But her whole life changed when her mom moved back to Puerto Rico, so that meant that

Carmen really had nowhere to fall back on. If her husband and her father if they divorced, she would have nobody to go back with. So she briefly moved to Puerto Rico, and she marries a guy, a 65 year old man named Jesus. She was like 32 at this point, and by 2000 Carmen took her kids and moved back to Connecticut, but she was still kind of Mary Tazuz trying to divorce him. Real quick, Carmen was a good mom. She was involved in her kids life.

She wasn't lazy. She just didn't like the idea of working a dead-end job or a 9-5. That's what she said. But she loved taking care of her kids. But even that changed when she started drinking. She said it was from her depression, which can you blame her? I mean, try being married to a 40-year-old when you're 15. I'm sure it causes a lot of problems that maybe you don't notice at the time. And nobody ever tried to stop this, like what? So she falls into a dark spiral and she even ends up pushing

her niece and assaulting her sister. The police came and arrested her for domestic violence and child abuse. Carmen was sent to prison for a while and when she got out, she was determined to turn her life around. This was the wake-up call that she felt that she needed. Sure, she still went out to party and drink and let out steam, but she stopped drinking at home. She was no longer reckless, she wanted to be a good mom, and she had a new boyfriend that she was in love with.

Miguel, he was older, but not decades older, like her previous relationships, like a more appropriate age gap. She really saw a future with him, and guess what? He wasn't rich, she started working, and she loved it. She genuinely loved making her own money, she loved paying her own rent, she loved being in control of her life, she loved buying her own groceries, sometimes she hit the bars, but very rarely. In September 21st was one of those nights. Carmen went to Kenne's after already having a night out with her uncle and she ran into harmless Ned.

Ned said he would drive her home. The next day, it was Carmen's daughter's baby shower. So Carmen was excited to be a grandma, but where the hell was she? So her family's like, okay, something's wrong, something's really wrong. They start looking for her and they go to Kennis because that's where Carmen was often. And all leads start pointing to a guy named Ned, just another regular Kennis.

They were at the bar trying to get more leads when a woman named Tina came up to them and said, are you guys talking about Ned? Can't tell you guys something. He was flirting with me here and there, but a few weeks ago, I was trying to leave and he followed me out to the parking lot. He wanted me to get into his car. I told him, take a hike, Ned! And he grabbed my arm and spun me around real hard.

I judged my arm around and I slapped him across the face. And he looked at me and yelled, get in the car bitch or I'll hurt you. And listen, I've been through some shit in my life. I've been through worse shit honestly, but this moment it stayed with me. It's almost like his face some shit in my life. I've been through worse shit, honestly. But this moment, it stayed with me. It's almost like his face was burned in my memory. Something about him, something about his eyes, terrifying. After that, Carmen's family, they just knew Ned had something to do with this.

They even confronted Ned at Kenny's one day. And yeah, Ned was super suspicious. He was just like, I dropped her off. She kept asking me for money that night. I dropped off at like a gas station because I didn't want to drive her home. I got just like, I dropped her off. She kept asking me for money that night. I dropped her off at like a gas station because I didn't want to drive her home. I got to go. And he would run out.

He would literally run out the back door of a bar. So the family tell the police, can you please look into Ned? And he found himself at the cops on his back for the third time in 15 years. So Ned wrote something that resembled a suicide letter. I don't think that he was planning on taking his life. It was a very narcissistic self--pity-infused letter. He was complaining about, how is it possible that he had a 3.8 GPA in college and now he's

working a job that barely makes good money? Why is he living such a downgraded life? He wrote about how he spends all his time working, driving around nice neighborhoods, talking to homeowners who had swing sets and pools in their backyard, two cars and a white picket fence, and he hated the fact that he would never have any of that. And to top it all off, every time he would apply for someone's credit application and he saw a six figure income, he would burn with rage. So after writing this very aggressive, very sad, wewiz me letter, Ned went to sleep.

It's hard to say if he were planning on taking his own life, or if he was just writing this, because in case he got caught, he would show this to the courts, and say, oh, look at me, I have so much remorse, and I have so much going on in my life. I feel inclined to believe that the latter, because Ned made it a habit of writing suicide letters. Honestly, they were more journal entries at this point. And a few weeks later, he tried it. He downed a handful of pills and he was rushed to the hospital. And he survived. It was not a miracle because it really wasn't a life-threatening situation. I mean, it wasn't good. Don't get me wrong, but it's almost like he felt like he did it to have it on the record. So no matter though, because detectives showed up at the hospital to talk to Ned. The police

searched his car, his house. They found some stained swabbings, but nothing to compare it to since they had no body. They couldn't reference it with Carmen. That is, till three months later. January 2002. A man named Peter was rocking around his big property in Rhode Island. This is about an hour from the Connecticut border. Part of his house ran along Route 138, which is a really busy highway, and I mean his property was beautiful, it was

huge. But that side around the highway, it was a real struggle for him. It posed to be a problem. A lot of people would litter out their car window going 60 miles an hour. People would throw trash bags, sometimes bags of fish bones. One time he found a dog in a trash bag. Someone put a dog in a trash bag and threw it out their window. On a highway. Alive. So he would make it a point to go out there once every while and pick up all the trash because this is his land. He wants to take care of it. January 6th, 2002, he went to go pick up trashers usual and he found a couple garbage bags. Immediately, just the shape of that garbage bag, the main one was, it was different, it

didn't feel like trash. The way that it was sealed off, the way that it was sitting, it was just weird. He poked around and he smelled something putrid. It was an unfamiliar smell. The bag ripped open and it revealed skeletonized remains. They were large, they looked human, there was hair, there was maggots. This would be hard for anyone. But it was really hard for Peter.

He had lost his sister on Pan Am Flight 103, which exploded. A total of 270 people died that day. And the pain just never left Peter, and now he's staring at the remains of what looked to be a woman. And Peter said he doesn't know what compelled him to say this, but he said out loud, and I think he was thinking of his sister. Sit tight, stay right here, you're found now, and I know what to do. I know someone's looking for you and I'm gonna help."

And he immediately called the police. Turns out Ned tried to dispose of Carmen and Rhode Island thinking, okay, by the time that the police find her, she will be decomposed to the point where she'll be a Jane Doe. Nobody will connect it to Carmen. But only a few patches of skin on the corpse's body remained. And one of those patches. And this is literally a miracle. Was a tattoo on Carmen's left ankle.

That the police used to idea her. The police went to Ned and immediately arrested him. And apparently they were really soft about it, but Ned was pissed. He screamed at them, what are you doing? This is harassment. And allegedly, the police looked him in the eye and said, you haven't seen harassment yet. The police would later deny all of this.

Listen, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, even if they did say that, I don't know how mad I would be in this particular situation. Not mad at all, really. So the police, they searched his house, and curiously, they found something really strange. Two Styrofoam mannequin heads, which is why sometimes he's called the Styrofoam head killer.

So these Styrofoam heads, they had two. They had magic marker drawings on them. And one of the heads was all dolled up to look really pretty. She had her eyes closed, long lashes drawn on perfectly. It looked like a woman was peacefully sleeping. Then the other one had eyes that were bulging as if she was staring at something terrifying in front of her. She had criss-cross lines around her neck and around circle in the middle. The area that Ned had placed his thumbs when he strangled his victims.

Experts believe that they were used by Ned to relieve and relive his attacks and his urges. So in prison awaiting trial, Ned allegedly told his cellmate that he was in the car with Carmen the night that she used by Ned to relieve and relive his attacks and his urges. So in prison awaiting trial, Ned allegedly told his cellmate that he was in the car with Carmen the night that she went missing. He had taken the car to a nice, secluded wooded area and tried to make a move on her. But whatever he did had scared Carmen so much that she opened the door and chose to ran out into the dark woods by herself while intoxicated.

Imagine how much scarier that means Ned was. And Ned allegedly said, he might have let it go, but the sight of a woman drunk, stumbling in the dark woods, so vulnerable, so helpless. He just had to chase after her and strangle her. He dragged her back to his car and he, quote, got off sexually. Allegedly, in prison, Ned would talk nonstop about how he wanted to rip the shirts off of pretty woman, exposing their breasts and taking it all in. He said he would

get an erection so big from strangling a woman that it was more powerful than anything he had ever felt before. Ned's trial was set to start, and ironically, the judge's name was Judge Carmen Esponanza, and she was Puerto Rican as well. And the trial was set to start and ironically the judge's name was Judge Carmen Esponanza and she was Puerto Rican as well. And the trial was a shit show. Ned bitched about everything. How badly the police treated him because they wouldn't let him go back into his house to get socks before they arrested him. So his little featsies were cold. Ned believed everybody was biased against him because of his previous convictions of murder, like how dare they! Based his character on the crimes that he previously committed.

That's not me. I'm a new person, I don't even know that person anymore. Not even said, well how do you know Carmen died of strangulation? She could have died of a million other things. Here I made a list. She could have died from electrocution, drowning, forced starvation as a result of being held captive, forced dehydration as a result of being held captive, a hard blow to the temple, hard attack, a hard blow to the chest suffocation with a pillow.

I mean, the list is terrifying. Like, was he just compiling a list of things he wanted to do, or he had already done? Because we really don't know how many victims he had. It's safe to assume that he was a serial killer. Because think about it, even Carmen's case would not have been solved if her tattoo by a miracle Hadn't decomposed like the rest of her body. I mean who knows how many times he's gotten away with it And honestly, it's a very scary thought So of course Ned was found guilty and he stood up to give his speech as wild. He said with hatred dripping from his words

Now judge espinoza tripping from his words. Now, judge Espinosa. Honestly, it probably pissed him off that he had a female judge. Now, judge Espinosa. This is the part where you gather yourself and you tell everyone that the evidence against me was overwhelming. Overwhelming. That's a word judges like to use. In my case, though, however, there was no evidence. You and your Apprentice, the prosecutor, simply used my past convictions against me as a substitute for no evidence. Problem solved, am I right? You could have easily charged me with any unsolved crime in Connecticut in the last six years then. That is, one reason why my appeal will erase this conviction. And force you, Judge Espinoinosa to conduct a fair trial.

The conviction will never stand. I will see you in a few years after the appeal. I also know that you're going to sentence me for the maximum penalty for the time being, but you of course decided that before the trial even started. So go ahead, sentence me to life, and I'll see you after the appeal in two to three years. Oh, and don't forget to tell everyone

how overwhelming the evidence was. I mean, does that not sound like the speech of a sword loser, like textbook sword loser? Yeah, and horrify. Yeah. My disguise horrify. Yeah. Judge Espinoza said a few words

during the sentencing, which I've shortened down. She said, well, we have just seen a prime example of who Mr. Snellgrove is. Everybody else is bad, everybody else is wrong, and he is the only one who is right. Psychiatrist have examined him to be an extremely dangerous individual who requires professional psychotherapeutic treatment in a secure setting. They said Mr. Snellgrove is self-centered manipulative psychopathic, detached, and braggart. Those are the words of even his own family members who want nothing to do with him now because they are afraid of him.

That is Edwin Snellgrove. He has been plagued by a lifelong persistent, violent, deviant, sexual fantasies, and despite his level of education, intelligence, and self-reports acknowledging that these fantasies were problematic, he never sought treatment for them. On the contrary, he got great pleasure from the fantasies. The central theme of his fantasies were focused on the degradation and humiliation of females, both during and following their murders. Sometimes, psychiatrists and psychologists spend a lot of time trying to figure people

out, but sometimes people are just bad. Sometimes people just don't have redemption. There is no recourse. The only thing that the criminal justice system can do is warehouse them. Is to separate them from society so that no one else is murdered, so that no other woman is murdered by Edward Snellgrove. The court is convinced if he ever gets out on the street he will kill again. He is sentenced to 60 years in prison, and most likely he will die behind bars.

Allegedly, there were shakedowns in his cell because he would go around telling inmates he was going to kill Judge Carmen next. And now, net is in protective custody because, away from general population, a lot of inmates wanted to see him in pain for what he did to Carmen. There was a story on the news that Ned got quote unquote pummeled into a bloody pulp by a Puerto Rican prisoner who claimed to be Carmen's cousin. And honestly, he deserved it. So prisoners don't like him either.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. Every day, I hope he wakes up and it's just a world of pain. I hope he, well, maybe I shouldn't put that on mine. I'm like, I hope he just can't breathe for a really long time all day. Just like feels like you get it anyway. I just hope he has really shitty days in prison every day. What are your thoughts on this case? And I will see you guys on Sunday for the minisode. Bye and stay safe. Thank you.