Rotten Mango - #208: The Killer On The Cruise

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

The cruise was absolutely stunning. The white sand beaches, the baby blue waters, the casinos inside the cruise, it was all incredible. The passengers were having the time of their life, including the married Nist couple. Mr. & Mrs. Nist had the perfect life - they were millionaires, with a beautiful child, friends who loved them, and they were in love. But on this cruise, Mrs. Nist would fall in love with a crew member. It would catapult her life into the dark waters where she would be thrown into later. The unraveling of all the secrets aboard the cruise would beg the question… who’s the killer? Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations. Price is very based on how you buy. At a Bingba da BOOM. Welcome to this week's mini-sode of rotten mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. And let's just jump right into it. They had met on a beautiful cruise. You guys know how I feel about cruises, so this is not going to end well. How do you feel about cruises? I'm terrified of cruises. I don't

like it. I don't like being on international waters. I don't like the fact that there's no police system in place where people can just die or disappear or go missing. And I feel like the food is questionable. You know, the food's got to be questionable. I'm gonna be on a cruise every day. Maybe like no episode this week. Sorry guys, I'm going on a cruise. No, they had met on a beautiful cruise. It was going through the Caribbean islands.

All the beautiful white sand beaches were their main attraction. It was an upscale cruise. So all the passengers, you're talking primarily upper, upper middle class, trying to have a blast. Getting drunk. Gambling. That's why the couple met by chance. By the pool on this romantic cruise, and since their first kiss was at C, it only seemed

to fit and only seemed appropriate that their last kiss would be at C2. You see, they were breaking up. She wanted to move on. I guess she saw it as the sort of short fling, a romantic getaway fling. But when the couple tried to get serious, they realized that they just did not mesh. They did not click. They were not perfect for each other. The main problem was he lived in Greece.

She was from New Jersey. She tried to move to Greece to be with him, and it was just too hard. So this was their final goodbye. He looked into her loving face. She looked gorgeous. Her hair are blowing in the wind. And he kissed her lips one last time. And then he tossed her severed head to the ground and lit it on fire.

Then he threw her corpse in the rest of her body in the lake. He wanted to burn her face because he wanted to make sure that he was the last one to ever see her beautiful face. Yeah, it's going to be a wild case and it's going to be so infuriating, so just keep that in mind. As always, full show notes are available at RottenMinglePodcast.com, but there is an incredibly research book on this case called Blind Passion, a true story of seduction of session and murder by John Gladt. I got sucked into this case in this book.

I mean, it's written mainly based on interviews with those involved, with those that were close to Julie. The book does a phenomenal job at making you feel connected to the case, connected to the victims, and their lives. It's incredibly emotional and raw. It's written in a way where it's super thorough, super organized, but it doesn't feel like you're just going through court documents. It's very difficult to read this book and not relate or feel for and understand the victim's life, and also

their loved ones because I mean, I can't even imagine what they were feeling during this time. So please, go check out the book. It is the best deep dive on this case that you will find, and with that being said, let's get into it. It was an intervention, okay? Or maybe the beginning stages in preparation for an intervention. Their friend Julie had left her loving, caring, millionaire husband and their child together, moved to Greece to be with a 23-year-old dude. I mean, it seemed like she was losing her marbles.

Like what's going on? So they gathered all of her ex- friends because she had cut them all off. She had also cut off her ex husband by, you know, cheating on him. And they sat in the room to talk. It was awkward to say the least. All of them felt a sense of betrayal by Julie in one way or another. And here they were talking about what to do. Well when's the last time you talked to her? One friend said, oh I I talked to her a while ago, and you know, she sounded so sad. I think it was hard for her to make friends in Greece. She didn't know Greek, she couldn't understand any of the street signs, any of the words

that people were saying. She didn't know where to go by herself. She couldn't make friends, she couldn't connect with people. I mean, she had no deep social interactions, and we all know, Julie thrives off of that. Another friend said, she told me she was starting to regret the move. It just wasn't when she thought it was going to be. I told her to come back home and she said, I can't, I have nowhere to go, Tim got the house in the divorce, where would I stay?

And I told her, don't be silly, you can absolutely stay with me." She said she would think about it. Another friend admitted that they thought Julie was being abused by her new Greek lover. She said, you know, before they left. I saw these stitches on her arm. And I was like, did you watch do that to you? And she just said, no, no, no, I fell down the stairs. And that was that. You know, usually when people fall down the stairs, enough to warrant stitches, it's a whole story of like, oh my god, I was at the top of the stairs, you would never guess, it's like a ghost pulled on my leg.

I was balancing 20-myve, 25 million things in my arms. Oh, I'm so clumsy. No. Just, oh, I just fell down the stairs. Tim, Julie's ex-husband said, he had an emotional call with her, where she begged him to send their young child on a plane to Greece so that

she could see their child. He refused. Absolutely not, not without weirdo that you're seeing. And she became hysterical. She started accusing him of not caring what she wants or what about her happiness. And Tim said, I care about my daughter. You're the one who left. And according to everybody's dates, that was the last time Tim had talked to Julie.

But also the last time Tim had talked to Julie. But also the last time anyone had talked to Julie. They had no idea by the time they had this meeting, Julie was already dead. Julie's 9th birthday party. Was probably one of the most traumatic incidents in her life. And trust me, she had her fair share of traumatic incidents. She was run over by a car when she was just three years old. So, yeah, this is non-year-old Julie. She had seen some shit in life.

And this is out of this world. Imagine the 9th birthday party where there's children running around everywhere, screaming, running, being safety hazards, not only to themselves, but to everybody around them. Parents are chasing at Jimmy. Don't you run down the hall! Maybe a family comes late looking for parking on the street In front of the house. There's balloons hung up on the mailbox to indicate yep. There's the house with a party It was easy to lose your spouse or your friend at a party like this kids are running in the back Parents are grilling it up summer in the kitchen fixing up the cake

Summer getting some side dishes. Summer going to their car to get their presents. Julie's mom probably had the most hectic job. She's the one hosting the party. I mean sure, yeah, Julie's dad is helping, but is he really helping? Now during the chaos of it all, Julie's mom was inside prepping some things, cleaning up after the kids. She looks outside the window, and her husband is in the middle of the residential street in front of their house at their daughter's 90-per-day party, making out with their female neighbor. Yep, Julia, Julie's mom dropped everything, ran out, confronted her husband, and you could hear the yelling from down the street.

Everyone, not only at the party, but on the block, knew what had happened. Julie's dad went inside, packed his bag, and walked out on his family on his own daughter's ninth birthday party in front of her, in front of his whole family, in front of all of Julie's friends. He never came back to the family home. Nine-year-old Julie would probably remember this moment for the rest of her life.

And it might be the reason that she made specific decisions that she made. So let's talk of her life. And it might be the reason that she made specific decisions that she made. So let's talk about her childhood. It really all starts with her mom, Julia. So Julia was born into this massive family, right? She was one of six kids and her parents, they were both from the Navajo tribe.

So Julia grew up with a strong influence from her indigenous heritage. They lived in the four corners, reservation in New Mexico, which if I'm not mistaken is the largest reservation in the US. Now, from a young age, she's immersed in all this Navajo folklore, traditions. She learned the bloody history of her people when Spanish settlers systematically just pillaged and burned their lands. Yeah, it was a bleak but necessary history lesson that she had to learn about the cruel

side of humanity. But other than that, Julia said she had a very pleasant childhood. I mean, as pleasant as it gets. Her family raised goats in sheep. They grew their own vegetables and fruit, and her mom would weave these intricate rugs, the traditional Navajo style to sell to tourists. Listen, it was an honest living, but it did not leave a ton of room for financial error.

There was not a lot of wiggle room. They had to watch all their pennies, all their dimes. They had to make sure that the children never felt like they were lacking. For example, Julia grew up speaking fluent Navajo. And by the time that she was 12, her parents send her off to an indigenous boarding school. And she had a full blown culture shock.

This was not like a Navajo school because there's hundreds of tribes of indigenous people in the US. They were speaking English. And she's like, the hype-up is same experience. Tell me why, okay? She had no idea that there was an outside world, outside of the reservation.

I mean, the boarding school experience was the first time she even left. She had to learn English. She's like, you're telling me not everybody speaks Navajo? I thought the same thing. I didn't know not everybody spoke Korean here. I went to kindergarten and I was in for a shock. And like, why do parents not tell you that?

I think maybe they were scared that you wouldn't go because I was not warned. And neither was Julia. She just showed up and there they are speaking a weird ass language. It's like, what is that? English? And this new boarding school felt like suffocation to put it nicely. I mean, she's used to fresh air open fields on the reservation and now she's stuck.

So I feel like this is either going to go of two ways. Julia's either going to hate the outside world, retreat back to the reservation and stick with what she knows, or she's going to become obsessed. She's going to become obsessed with exploring what else is outside in the quote outside world. And that is exactly what happened. She dropped out of boarding school, and at just 16 years old,

she ends up getting a babysitting job in Sacramento, California. Over the break, she was staying at this, she's like a nanny, staying at this couple's high-rise apartment in San Francisco, a giant skyscraper. She had never seen one in real life, she had never even been inside of one in real life, she was mesmerized, she was so scared she couldn't even go out onto the balcony because she thought it was gonna just fall off the building and when she did go out, alone in the city, she would stand on the street corner for hours watching the world just pass her. I mean, these people, why do they dress like that? Why do they look like that? Oh my god, why do they

do that? I mean, it was so fascinating to her her and she knew from then on she was a city girl She's satir parents down and she was like okay after school I'm gonna leave the reservation love you nothing personal and they were freaking confused They're like what are you talking about? Nobody else in our whole family not a single family member not an aunt not an uncle not a cousin has ever wanted To leave the reservation. This is our sanctuary. You know, outside they're going to discriminate against you. They're going to be racist. It's full of prejudice. Even though we were here first, they're going to want to act like they were here. You want to go out there and live with

that? But they're like, okay, I love you, Julia. So you do what makes you happy. We're going to support you. So 18 year old Julia, Julia. So you do what makes you happy. We're gonna support you. So 18-year-old Julia, she starts moving around bouncing from city to city. She starts working in a hospital. One of her jobs was in a psychiatric unit and she said it was so traumatizing. Because, okay, think about this.

You live on a reservation. Like you've seen the same community members, your whole life, you go into the city, you get a job at a psychiatric hospital and she said people were dead in the eyes. Just like zombies. Blank expressions and she would give them slops of hospital food, just like sloshy mush on a plate. It was a sobering experience. And Julia was like, I never want to be like that. I want to live my life. And the best way to live my life is to experience drugs. Yeah. So she started getting into speed, which isn't at metamine, which is similar to

meth, Adderall. They're all kind of all in the same family, right? And it helped her stay awake for sometimes 48 hours at a time. And you're like, wow, is she working 48 hour shifts? Okay, here's the thing about Julia. She really loved a party. It kind of runs in the family, starting with Julia. So Julia later is a partier. But Julia would work a 12 hour shift in the psychiatric unit, go party for 12 hours until her next shift, show up for work, and then go party again after that. And she would use speed to get through all of it, so think like cocaine. Yeah, she wouldn't get a wink of sleep, and it was that one of these parties, she runs

into this guy named John Scully. John is like the opposite of Julia. Not an acute, opposite-sit-s-a-tracked way, but they literally had nothing in common with each other and I don't know what they even talked about. They just, they thought each other were hot. Those pretty much it. John grew up in this conservative house, really did not enjoy partying much. Also his family were like, indigenous people. We thought for this land, we wanted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were really on. They were pretty racist from what I heard from the book. I've never met them. Don't cancel them or me.

But he was physically attracted to Julia instantly. Like in the sea of woman, Julia with her Navajo heritage, I mean, she stood out in the best way possible. She was beautiful. Her looks were striking. John said she was unique. He had never seen another woman like her. Basically, she was hot. So keep this in mind later, because this guy just proposes marriage out of nowhere. They went on a few dates and then he called her. Yeah, he called her to propose to her and she said yes. It was over at the phone.

Yeah, and Julia would later say, yes, just a kid. We were at a party and I knew it was coming because at the party, he was like, I'mma marry you one day. And it never really occurred to me that we would actually get married. Weird.

In hindsight it was a bad decision. We were both young, we had no money, no strong careers, we were just trying to make ends meet. And add to that, John wanted to work in Philadelphia, which is 2,000 miles away from Julius parents, so it would be very, very difficult for her to visit on a whim. But in the end, she agreed to go, because of me. She's young. She thought John was the one. But from the get go, big mistake. First of all, all her neighbors were oddly racist. And you're like, how can you be oddly racist? They all assumed that she was either Filipino or Korean. And they were racist to her based off the fact that they assumed she was Filipino in Korean but then even if they found out that she wasn't Filipino or Korean and she

was in fact indigenous they would still be racist because they're like oh same shit. Whatever you're not one of us so yeah odd very odd I mean don't give me wrong most of them were somewhat friendly to her face but they always look down on her sometimes the covert racism is worse. Like at least these days, if someone is aggressively like straight up racist, you can film it, and they'll get fired from their job and deal with real life consequences.

But if it's like covert, and it's like the smallest subtle microaggression, people will always be like, oh my God, you're being sensitive. Yeah, so she was dealing with covert racism. They were racist undercover, little racist spies. And Julia could feel it. Even John's family gave her the same energy. They were hesitant to accept her because she wasn't white, which side note again, she was here first, you know what I mean? I'm just saying sorry. So Julia is miserable. And her job,

she gets the job working at this dark horrible shoe factory. I mean, it was bad. The conditions were bleak. She would just work all day, come home. And John wouldn't even be home because he got a job as a police officer. So he's out there fighting crime and she would be completely alone 2,000 miles away from her family. And it just, it was miserable until she got pregnant. And she was like, yes, this baby is going to be my saving grace. I'm going to pour all my energy, all my love into this freaking baby She devoted herself to planning the nursery literally everything and then she gave birth to Julie Marie Scully

They were so happy just like how her name was similar to Julia Julie looked just like her mom She was a gorgeous baby. She is described to be photogenic from day one I mean she had this luscious dark hair straight out of the womb. My niece would be so jealous. My niece came out here at this completely here at this. I don't know why. Okay. So things were starting to look up in the scully house. John started making time out of his busy schedule to take jewelry fishing. And she loved it. This girl was kind of a firecracker. She would go up and pick up crabs just out in the lake. They didn't even have the little rubber bands around their claws. She would just pick them up. She was really proud. Never got bit, not once.

And it's really cute, right? But Julie has a complicated woman. So, Julia, the mom is like, I don't like fishing. I don't like crabs. and you guys are having too much freaking fun without me. So she's getting jealous. She's getting upset, she's feeling lonely, she starts doing drugs again. She starts going back to that speed. And she managed to keep it a big secret. By the time that Julie was born, I mean the drugs, the stress, it was aging her body, but that is what's terrifying about addiction.

She just could not quit, and she would struggle with the addiction for most of her life. Now soon after Julie, there was John Patrick Scully. I know the names are so similar, so Julia and John Sr. had Julie and then John Jr. Okay. I know. Listen, can you imagine like screaming someone's name in the house? I would just be, John, I mean, dad, I mean, brother, Julie, Julie, it's a lot. And the whole family dynamic switched immediately

once John Jr. came out of the womb because John Sr. was like, oh yeah, I like that one. It's got a wee wee just like me. So it's more valuable. Yeah, he was one of those guys that always wanted a son. And he wasn't the type to baby his daughter. So I know a lot of dads that want a son, but like kind of like my brother-in-law really wants a son, but he babies his daughters.

I know if they ever did have a son, he would still be like a daddy. They would all be daddy's girls. Do you know what I mean? Like the daughter always gets spoiled by the dad, those type of dudes. John Sr. was not one of them. He just wanted the son and then he pretty much tossed Julia aside and was like, whatever, I don't need to go fishing with you anymore.

I got a real dude to go fishing with now. Like what? And this led Julie to feel really left out from the voice club. This had really lasting impacts. People who knew her said that, Julie would have forever chased approval from men for the rest of her life, probably because of this.

And since the family had two young kids now, Julia is a stay-at-home mom. And John starts picking up even more shifts in the police force. And I don't know if it was spending more time, taking her children to visit the reservation, because Julia really wanted them to know their roots, or whether it was watching her kids grow up or that near death incident where Julie was almost ran over by a car when she was three, like a lot happened.

And Julia thought, I think I gotta be a better mom. I'm gonna quit the drugs. Those who knew her said, sadly quitting drugs did more harm than good for her mental health. At least in the short term. The drugs were helping Julia stay on top of the housework. On top of looking after the kids, she would stay motivated on the drugs. She felt like she had endless energy, but now that she was clean, she no longer had this superhuman energy.

She was just another mom struggling to balance it all. That stress, that exhaustion, it made her so depressed. She started developing insomnia. She was prescribed sleeping pills, and instead of taking them like instructed She took the whole bottle at once to end her life Luckily John came home in time to call 911 and saved Julia's life and Interestingly when the kids were young they're running all over the place Julia's exhausted She's overworked. She's over stimulated

But the minute that those two started going to school you would think that's all she wanted, right? But now as a stand-home wife, she was bored out of her mind when the kids went to school. She had no sense of identity, she had no friends, no community, she was just so bored. So then she turned to a different drug, alcohol, and she would just drink her feelings away. Then she would eat her feelings away. This resulted in Julia gaining 80 pounds, and Julia was always perceived as conventionally attractive, right? And with society's pressure of being thin, Julia felt like if she wasn't thin, she wasn't attractive,

so that led her to be more depressed, and it made her drink and eat more and gain more weight, which would then harm herself as steam, which would lead her to drink more and eat more. I mean, it was this vicious cycle that I think a lot of women can relate to. So Julia's self love, her confidence, plummeting, just a underground tunnel plummeting.

It did not help that John Sr. was spending no time with his family on top of that. Sure, yeah, okay, he was working, putting food on the table. But for Christmas, instead of spending time to buy his kids a Christmas present, or even taking the kids to buy their Christmas presents, he drove them to the toy store, gave them a couple dollars each, like 20 bucks each, and was like, all right, go pick up a toy, and he waited in the car. He didn't even go inside. He's

already there. Like this guy checked out of his family. That's how he gave them presents. He deprived his whole family of love and affection, but he was super quick to dole out punishments to the kids. And add to the lack of parental love, Julia started beating the kids in a drunken days every single day. John said, John Jr. said, She hit us very hard and very often, sometimes with her hands, sometimes with whatever was available. I mean, it was just not a normal childhood. Julie said, sometimes her mom would grab her by the hair and drag her all throughout

the house. Most of the violence would be saved for Julie too, because Julie was the older one. When Julia was asked about, hey, why did you beat your kids so much? She said because it got fat from drinking beer Yeah, I got fat. Yeah, so she hit her kids because she got fat from drinking beer Listen, I don't know how to feel about that. I mean, I guess I appreciate the honesty, but it's not a good reason There's no reason to beat your kids Speaking of remember how I said John Scully was only attracted to Julia for her looks? Well he was a fat phobic, okay?

He decided that now that she was close to 200 pounds, she was no longer deemed attractive in his eyes. He just straight up wasn't interested in her anymore. He claimed it wasn't just her looks though. It was her whole vibe, you know everything. I'd come home from work and she'd be wasted. I'd call an ambulance twice just to save her life when she OD'd on her meds. Listen, I stayed for several years for the kids.

But I knew I had to start a new life, okay? But the problem was, he started that life before he ended this life, so he started sleeping with his female neighbor while he was still married, and also, that's your freaking neighbor! You lost me there, and at the fat phobia. I feel like John was maybe too scared to bring up the divorce to Julia, so he almost wanted Julia to catch him cheating, because why else would you make out with your mistress in the middle of the residential street

in front of your house at your child's ninth birthday party? So after that, the Hunger Games of Divorce commenced and may the odds ever be in your favor. Listen, I'm usually like, woo, toxic parents getting divorced because it's usually better than them staying together, because two toxic parents in one household, that's like a lot. But in this case, I'm kind of torn, because as much as the couple were pure chaos together, they were a fucking tornado after the divorce. For eight years they were

non-stop suing each other eight years that's almost a decade. See for what? Custody, money, child support, the how everything, the fucking car, they're like that's my car. Don't drive my car. Emotional distress, I mean you name it, there was polyolaw suit by these two. John moved in with another woman, and sometimes he would promise to take the kids fishing. He's like, like, good old times, daddy will come pick you up. He'd come to the house and be like, never mind, we're not going fishing. And then he'd stay for five minutes and then leave.

And the kids would have been prepping for this fishing trip for like two weeks. They'd be so excited. Like, remember when you were a kid and your parents like, we're going to go to Disneyland. And then they don't take you to Disneyland. I have so many trust issues from that. So many. Meanwhile, Julia would be so pissed because John spent more time with his new girlfriend than his own kids so she would get revenge by sitting down the kids and being like,

did you know kiddos? Your daddy don't love you. Nope. In fact he hates you. He left me because he hates you guys so much So that's why I'm sad because I'm stuck with y'all at the same time She was also getting more physically abusive towards her kids from the pent up anger and stress So overall the two kids it was toxic and by the time that Julie was what 11 12

She's drinking smoking partying. I mean, she's basically going around unsupervised. Listen, Julia would beat her up for partying. But the way that she taught lessons were bizarre. If she caught her young kids underage drinking at like 11 years old, I would imagine, okay, I'm thinking. If my kid is 17, 18, they're underage drinking. I know why they're underage drinking. I would have a talk about peer pressure. I don't't know okay. That's on so stereotypical right, but that's kind of why they're drinking But if they're 10 11, I'm like oh guy. We got to talk about why you're drinking. There's got to be an underlying problem here That I'm not seeing but instead Julia was like oh, yeah, you want to drink some beer? Both of you sit down

You're gonna drink all the fucking beer in the fridge until you're throwing up. She would have them chug beer until they were bent over throwing up everything that they ate that day. And she thought that they would learn their lesson like that. They did not. They were just severely hung over the next day. But that was it. Yeah. It's just a very bizarre, like you just made a bunch of hung over the next day, but that was it. Yeah, it's just a very bizarre,

like you just made a bunch of hung over 11 year olds, that's all you did. And then as a great example, Julia would get drunk the next day and then beat her kids the more. So it was like, how are you gonna tell me not to drink when you get drunk and beat us? Now at one point, the dad did want custody of the kids again. And here's what's so interesting about so many,

I'm trends I see in divorces with these cases, but it's that a lot of the times the father is Primarily the reason why the divorce happens usually in a fair takes place correct and the father leaves the house and moves on with another woman And the mom is in charge of taking care of the kids Physically at least right mentally emotionally too, but for some of the kids physically at least, right, mentally, emotionally too. But for some reason, the kids idolize the father. Maybe because he's not around it. I've seen this with so many different cases, and it's almost kind of similar to even me. Wait, what? I know, I'm being so deep.

But like, my dad left for Korea when I was younger, and technically, he is just objectively speaking, probably a worser parent than my mother. But yeah, I idolized him from so long. And I would always just give my mom shit for it. Why is that? I don't know, I guess when I was younger, the person that's not there, it makes you feel like they're perfect,

even though they're not there. But then you get older and you're like, oh, oh, that's abandonment. So that's not perfect at all. That's technically could be potentially illegal, you know what I mean? But okay. Yeah, so interesting. They idolized their father.

So they would do anything to live with their father and his new wife, Lorele, which by the way, Lorele and Julie did not get along. Julie hated her. Julie was like, you're stealing my dad away from me and I'm going to do some sneaky stuff behind your back. Which is why at just 14 years old, Julie had to get a psychiatrist because this psychiatrist was gonna testify to the courts of why John Sr. needed custody of both the kids. Now these psychiatrist notes are bizarre.

The psychiatrist described Julie as attractive and thin, which I feel like is really freaking creepy because she's 14. I mean, am I missing something on why he felt the need to write that? So, that's it. For that, yeah. With the help of a creepy psychiatrist, John gets custody of the kids. So now, Julie and John Jr. are living with him, and he made sure that they were up to par with his life.

He wanted Julie to go to the best high school in the area, which was this prestigious high school that you had to apply to. You had to take an entrance exam, and it was connected to Temple University. It was literally on the campus and people said, if you go to this high school, it's guaranteed entrance to Temple University. But the problem was, Julie was failing all of her classes, so how on earth is she going to get in? John had two things.

He walked in to the principal's office full cop uniform and he sat down and said Julie's indigenous half indigenous So I'm just saying I'm just saying they're like your right sir Would you like to take an entrance exam? Yeah, that'd be nice So she sits down takes her entrance exam and you're thinking okay, well That's not gonna work cuz she's failing all your classes. Here's the thing about Julie, she had a photographic memory. What? Yeah, I know.

So this, she still fails to call? She fails classes because she doesn't study, she doesn't turn in assignments, she does know homework. But if you force her to sit down and read a textbook the night before her exam, flying colors. What? Because she's a photographic memory. For real?

Yes. So she killed the N-tricks exam with one night of studying. There are kids that study for all of eighth grade to get into this high school. What is that like? Yeah, and I know, but you know, I don't think it's good because everyone's at this about Julie because she had this photographic memory, there was no dopamine release essentially when she is getting good grades, she was so underestimulated by school.

And she was so underestimulated to the point where she didn't show up. She just stopped going. Nothing could keep her interested in school. I know, it's kind of interesting. So maybe being too smart is actually a bad thing. Yeah, she got in. But then she got bored and dropped out and got an office job.

So 16 years old, she's basking in male attention. She's 57, conventionally attractive, petite, defined bone structure. I mean, guys flock to be around her. Yeah, let me show you a picture of her. Yeah, she's pretty. She's beautiful, and that's you a picture of her. Yeah, she's pretty. She's beautiful. And that's when she's in her.

I want to say she's in 20s. Yeah, mid 20s to late 20s, yeah. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior 1 in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway.

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What a police! It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're going to rob some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100% I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series

available now in the Odyssey app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy, man, but I love being that dirty mother-f**ker. And Guy's just flocked to be around her and she loved it. She loved spending money on her clothes, her makeup. She just liked hanging out with her friends. And at the right page of 17, she's like, I'ma get married. Yeah, I'm going to decide my future right now.

So she married this guy named Neil Ziggler and he was 23 from a wealthy family, so that was great. And both of Julie's parents were actually kind of relieved. First of all, out of all the guys that Julie could have chosen him out of, Neil was the most calm. He was the most put together. He came from a wealthy family. And at least now, they always knew where Julie was

because if she didn't pick up her phone, they could call Neil. That was the vibe. But by the time that Julie's parents came around, Julie was over the marriage. She was like, hey guys, thanks for your proving of Neil now, but I don't like him anymore. Are they married or not married?

Yeah, they're married. For how long? Not long, like a year or two, and she's like, I'm kind of done with this guy. He's very boring. First of all, he's laid back. His idea of a crazy weekend is smoking weed and hanging out with friends.

The problem is, I don't like weed, and I don't like any of his friends. Yeah. So, you know, Julie was a lot more outgoing, extroverted, her husband was starting to get boring, so she divorced his ass, and then went out to party. I mean, just to kind of paint a picture for you, Julie was beautiful and she knew it. Not in the sense that she was stuck up and made other girls feel really gross about themselves. No, she never did that.

But rather, she, you know those girls that are very pretty and they know how to use it to their advantage when it comes to men. That was her. So she had men tripping over themselves to help her, to talk to her, to take her on dates, to shower her with gifts. So in her early 20s, she catches the attention of a 32-year-old successful business owner by the name of Tim Nist. Tim was one of those born motivational videos on YouTube. He said, ever since high school, I was reselling cars for extra money in my town. This guy got

bored easily. He said, fuck college. I don't need college. I don't need a degree to make money. He was jumping around from job to job, trying to make a living, and finally, he opened up his own business, Stirling Lons, a huge landscaping company. And the timing couldn't have been better. New Jersey real estate was in full swing, and Tim was at the right place at the right time and his business took off. He hired a bunch of secretaries, several lawn specialists, and he was a millionaire by the time that he met Julie, a multi-millionaire.

And for every million dollars that he had, he had a failed engagement to go along with it. Okay sorry, I don't know if that's factually true, but he did have a lot of failed engagements. I don't know this guy's not worth. He would feel pressured to propose to long-term girlfriends and then he'd be like, wait a minute, I don't think I actually want to live the rest of my life with this one. So then they would call it off before they got married. And Tim was not a partier.

He wasn't like, oh no, I don't know if this is the one, because I still want to go out there and sleep with all the other fish in the sea. Tim was a very laid back dude. He was not a Dan Bazarian. He was actually a really cool millionaire. Like he just like to keep to himself. He had dooby little hobbies, like model rocket tournaments. he loved making those model rockets oh god I got it you know

that means yeah like science class yeah yeah yeah and then he loved um civil war reenactments which feels a little questionable but I don't know okay yeah he's kind of you know do we be in the best way possible? Like what I'm trying to say is he's the perfect cat. She's not one of those millionaires I want to cheat on his wife and his like all about like being a douchebag. He wasn't one of those. And Julie would come in and change his life with her magnetic charm.

I mean, there was this instant physical attraction between the two of them. Tim was also tall. Six, four. Good looking athletic bod. And Julie, four, good looking, athletic bod. And Julie, well, you know, she had the model looks. So at a party one day, Julie was making eyes at Tim. He approached her and she put a cigarette to her lips. And he swooped in and lit it for her while they maintained eye contact. It was, it was an intense, steamy, book talk moment. And the rest was history. They spent the rest of the night whipping around in Tim's Porsche 928 coupe like they were teenagers

again, which the 928 is apparently like the version of a 911. It's no longer around. But a 911 is a very fancy car and it's sneaky teenager fashion, that night Tim's like, hey Julie, I know this is really random and this has nothing to do with like what you're thinking, but I just really, you wanna go surfing tomorrow? She was like, yeah, share it, pick me up. Let's be real. The guy just wanted to see her in a bikini.

Cause she was wearing a sweatshirt at that party, like a very oversized sweatshirt. And he was like, I gotta see what I'm working with, right? He felt so in love the next day. If Tim had to describe Julian three words that day, it was skinny big tits. It is three words. It is, yeah.

He's really good at counting. Really good description. Yeah. Kind of romantic honestly. Yeah, really emotional. Yeah. Side note, the 11 year age gap was nothing for this couple. Can a romantic honestly? Yeah, really? Emotion. Side note, the 11 year age gap was nothing for this couple. Like, they hit it off during their surfing trip.

They found out they had a ton of common interests, like they both liked hockey, social drinking, romantic comedies. And since Tim was financially secure, he loves spending money on all these types of luxuries, traveling, fancy trips, and Julie had never experienced that before. I mean, she's in her early 20s. And it's like Tim almost enjoyed being able to relive the shock and the appreciation for

these things that he was becoming jaded for through her enthusiasm. As long as it sounds, Tim kind of filled the role of Father Sashmentor in Julia's life, and they moved in together. Everyone said they seemed so happy. I mean, yeah, there were a few things that posed as a problem, like Julie's uncontrollable violence. Okay, so remember how I said Julie loved hockey. She went to this local hockey game, and she was actually the official scorekeeper.

And one time, her, one of the players swore, like, cussed out her friend. Julie stopped the whole game to go tackle this guy and punch his face multiple times repeatedly. He's like a six foot, like, really tall dude. She's like a petite little woman. The referee had to stop the game and pry Julie off this poor guy. Later that night, Julie sat there with her friends and she was like, I just feel so much regret. They're like, why? Because you punch the guy repeatedly, non-stop in front of hundreds of people,

is that why you feel remorse in regret? No. You know, I was wearing these thick mittens. I should have taken them off before I punched him. You know, because then I would have heard him more. The mittens were softening the blow. Wow. Okay, well, we gotta go, Julie, so...

I foresee marital problems? Yeah, but not a lot, oddly. Um, well, um, once is more than enough, right? So, yeah, let me explain what happened. Tim was waiting for Julie in the bar, and I guess this blonde woman was like making conversation with him. They weren't sitting right next to each other, they were just alone at the bar, she was maybe waiting for someone, he's waiting for Julie, and they have this casual conversation going him. They weren't sitting right next to each other. They were just alone at the bar. She was maybe waiting for someone. He's waiting for Julie. And they have this

casual conversation going on. None of it was flirtatious. Tim really was a loyal guy. So Julie walks in, sees that he's talking to a woman, and Tim said, I didn't even see Julie. Next thing I know, I'm getting punched in the face and I have a black eye. Yeah. And he's like, I regain my composure and I said, Julie, what did you hit me? And she was saying, first of all, I will kick her ass for talking to you. And then I'm gonna kick her ass for being blonde.

Julie was a brunette and apparently she hated blondes. It was like this whole blonde versus brunette war. No, I'm kidding. She just hated blondes that talked to her man. Yeah. She did not punch the blonde talked to her man. Yeah. She did not punch the blond woman, thank God. But she did punch her boyfriend, which I feel like that's domestic violence and that

should... Anyway, the relationship progressed and it heavily relied on a double standard. Julie was ready to assault her boyfriend for so much as looking at another woman, but she wanted to go out and talk to whoever she wanted. So she would go to parties, she would talk to guys, but then the next day she would be so pissed off that Tim Secretary was a woman. How dare he hire a woman? So Julie bullied Tim Secretary so much that the poor woman quit. And Julie was like, then I'm gonna be your secretary. And Tim was like, you're not even qualified. And she was like, I don't care because you're not gonna hire another woman.

Yeah. Which ended up not being a bad business move for Tim because he was using outdated technology and Julie computerized everything. So actually, she did help advance Tim's business. So at least that worked out. So anyway, unlike Julie, Tim just was not that jealous of a person. Even when the local newspaper, the Trentonian,

put out an ad saying that they're having a bikini contest for the paper, Julie's like, I'm gonna send my my photos. It's gonna be all over page 6. Tim was fine with it. And you're like, damn right, he better be. This is back then. It was not common to see anyone in the bikini in the papers.

Like anyone, let alone regular civilians that were not, you know, playboy bunnies or these crazy celebrities, bikini models. I mean, this was actually a national moral debate. This bikini contest that this newspaper held became a national more like a moral debate that was featured on the Mori Povits show. They had a whole debate around it. This is how conservative things were back then. And Julie submitted her photos with the help of Tim.

Tim was like, yeah, go for it. If that's what you want to do. And she waited. And when her picture was featured on page six in anticipation of the bikini contest, she said it was one of the best moments of her life. And for the next few weeks, before the contest, Julie would be striking poses, practicing her walk. Tim helped her.

He was super helpful. So they're doing another contest. So that was just, oh, these are the contestants. They were showing one by one. Yeah, come see them. Yeah, like building up the hype and the bikini contest. Last year's winner, Cheryl, she said, I thought Julie was the most beautiful girl there was. She was just so striking. At first, I thought she was Asian and I was trying to figure out what nationality she was, but wow, she was beautiful. she was Asian, and I was trying to figure out what nationality she was,

but wow, she was beautiful. So Julie came, strutted in her stuff, and she didn't win. She didn't even place, not run her up, not second, not third, nothing. Julie was so pissed that she stormed over to Tim and told him, I am better than the girl that won. But she did win some other things.

Julie was like a master networker, so at this bikini event, she befriended the heads of the newspaper. She befriended a bunch of business owners in the area. And she started getting hired to do work, like modeling work, being a promoter, doing all of this. And people loved her. They said that she would light up a room.

She would talk to every single person about something so passionately. Like she was so bubbly. She flirted, but it wasn't in like a creepy, throwing herself at people to get a sail or anything, but it was just so natural. Like she was naturally flirtatious, but she was dead loyal to Tim.

Not once did she even think, not once was she ever tempted to ever cheat on Tim. And Tim knew it, He wasn't jealous. He was actually very confident. He's like a grown man. He understands this is part of the job. It's part of the dream. So even when there was a giant billboard

with a picture of Julie and a bikini that was made, and that was her proudest moment, he supported her. When Julie got to these functions and networking events, other models' boyfriends would come to make sure that their model's model girlfriend weren't flirting with other men, Tim would stay home and work on his civil war and reenactments. Because he was like, I trust you. His favorite thing to say to other people that were like, aren't you worried that your girlfriend

is like a bikini model and it's like, you know, kind of crazy, she's going to cheat on you, right? He's like, no. I mean, if she wants to go and cheat on me, that's fine. She just can't come home after. So he's like, if she cheats, she cheats. I'm not going to, me being there isn't going to prevent her from cheating one day. So on top of that, Julie's getting booked left and right by local, local companies. They said she was a dream to work with always professional. She was not one of those ego-tistical local models. That was like, I demand this in my trailer. I want this and this, you gotta get my good side.

Julie would stay after hours to help them, you know, undo all of the light. Like she worked hard. She was so reliable, she had no sense of ego or entitlement, which is wild. Considering she's doing all of this while she's still working as Tim Secretary. I mean, this woman was full of energy and full of ambition and her work ethic is freaking out of this world and it paid off. She's like a mini celebrity in the local area. She was friends with the mayor, she was politically well-connected, she was invited to all the official city events and I mean that year everything was perfect for

Julie because on Christmas morning she was proposed to. It was a complete and utter not a surprise because well Julie had been pressuring him for like two years. Listen, Tim knew Julie was the one he had never wanted to settle down with anyone as much as he wanted to settle down with Julie but you know she definitely wore him down. Yeah, for sure. He said she wanted an engagement ring. She was pretty persistent and she got it. I was moving along with my life in a smooth sea and Julie was this headstrong woman, just kind of a controlling person. And to give you an example of how controlling she was, she went straight into Brides' Zilla mode. Tim was not allowed to have any say in anything about the wedding.

All he could do was submit a guest list for Julie to consider of all the people that he wanted to invite on his side. And that was it. You don't get to say in the color scheme, the flowers, the cake, nothing. Now, with the wedding planning, with the modeling, with the secretary position, Tim is like,

you gotta quit this job. Like, I can find another secretary. You're getting no sleep every night. And he tried to reassure her, which kind of rubs me the wrong way, but he was like, don't worry, Julie, I'm going to hire someone big fat and ugly. It sounds pretty fat phobic, okay? But you get it. She wasn't having it. I don't care. I'm going to be your secretary so that you can't have another girl sitting in this desk. She just drank more and more caffeine and would stay up all night working and it paid off.

They got married. It was a beautiful day. And they went on a luxury cruise to the Caribbean islands after. And they loved it so much they made it an annual trip. It was the highlight of Julie's life. I mean, she had everything, a wealthy husband who loved her, who showered her in gifts and luxuries. They were about to buy their dream home together. Her career was popping off, she's happy, she has friends, she has a community, I mean,

it was great. Even when Tim and Julie clashed personality-wise, they made it work. For example, Tim likes to go to a party and leave an hour later so that he could get some extra sleep before work. Julie loves to be the last one to leave and she loves to party it up. So they would drive to the function separately so that they wouldn't argue. And they would just come home whenever they wanted to go home. Wow. Honestly, very mature. Yeah, impressive. Yeah. Sure, sex slowed down a bit. Tim said, you know, sex was okay when it happened. It was great.

That of course slowed down as it always does in marriage, but hey, they were in love. They had respect for one another, they would never dream of being unfaithful to one another. And even behind closed doors, they were in love. Julie loved vlogging. She never posted it anywhere, she's like the pioneer of vlogging. But she would just vlog all day. I feel like Julie was a baddie that was born in the wrong era. Is that statement cancelable?

Like I just feel like she would have absolutely thrived on social media. She would have been like a style icon. She's so bubbly and extroverted. She loves making connections. She actually feeds off of high energy social interactions. So if she's not interacting with people, she becomes seemingly depressed.

You know, so she needs this type of energy around her. And she was with a man who, yes, was the opposite of her, but really let her shine. And then I went down to her when she got pregnant. And it's not like the pregnancy was unwanted, not at all. They'd actually been trying. But once she got pregnant, the pressure was on. She's in her 20s now. Julie was petrified that she wouldn't be able to bounce back after her pregnancy and

this was going to end her modeling dreams. So she stayed vigilant. She was exercising, watching her food intake while she was pregnant and she was starting to feel good and excited. So for the first two trimesters, she only gained 35 pounds, which is really not a lot. She still looked thin just with this bump, and she showed it off. Like, she liked to dress in a way that would draw attention to her bump

because the juxtaposition of this bump and then her petite little body was different. It was giving Rihanna. Julie honestly would have been a style icon had she been born today, you know? Now, Julie did smoke and drink throughout her pregnancy, which is a horrible idea, but she just kind of refused to stop

and nobody could stop her. She would have a few glasses of wine here and there, so it's not like she's, you know, knocking back shots of tequila and getting wasted every weekend, but as far as smoking, she did not restrict herself. So yeah, everything was going swell. Then boom, the third trimester. And suddenly, Julie was gaining more weight. She was experiencing mood swings because her hormones are all over the place, and at time she would get incredibly violent. She once went to a hockey game, and a guy near her had remarked on her belly.

And I think he probably had said something along the lines of, oh, watch out, you're gonna bump into all of us, you know, because she's clearly pregnant. But um, she physically attacked the man. So that's long. She gave birth on November 26th to Katie Nist. The first few weeks that Katie was born, it was a magical time for the family. I mean, baby Katie was beautiful.

Tim and Julie had no idea that their lives could be this good. Tim was in love with his wife, Tim was in love with their baby, he was in love with this whole family, and then everything was about to unravel. Julie at first was doing great. She even reconnected with her brother and her mother because she just had this baby. And she's like, I think I want this baby to have an uncle. I think I want my baby to know her grandma. So, hi, you know, because they had really weird childhood growing up. They had been estranged for a while. And initially it was great. But you know, because they had really weird childhood growing up. They had been estranged for a while and initially it was great

But you know when someone toxic is in your life It's always great initially and then they get a little too comfortable That's what happened Julie's mom got too comfortable and Julie had depression probably postpartum But also general depression and her mom was not helping in fact Julia came into Julie's life and started criticizing her for every little thing She's not latching properly. You're doing it wrong. Why do you change your diaper like that? It's not right.

How do you not have time to do the dishes? You only have one baby. I had two babies and I still did the dishes. For two years, Julia was berated by her mom. For struggling to be the perfect mother, which by the way, Julia, you're not one to talk. And I think this type of relationship started to bring up the unresolved feelings and childhood traumas in Julie's life, the memories that she was probably trying to surprise. Some friends of Julie said, you know when you have a baby you just

start reflecting a lot, okay? Start thinking about life. And I think it really upset Julie because she's looking at her baby and thinking, I love this baby so much. How could someone leave a baby? How could my dad leave me and just move on with a new woman? How could my mom beat me like that and treat me like that? I would never do that to my baby. She just couldn't even imagine, like, was something wrong with her and it just really hurt.

So she would stay in bed for days at a time, she completely lost her sex drive, and Tim would complain that she never wanted to have sex and she never seemed interested in him anymore and Truth be told Julie didn't want to have sex not because she wasn't interested in him But she felt so uncomfortable in her own skin. I feel like that's usually the case with like sex and marriage It's never because the woman is unattracted to her partner. I feel like typically it's because they just don't feel comfortable naked or they don't feel very, right? The baby weight wasn't coming off effortlessly.

Julie was the type that never worked out before this. Hermitabolism was insane. She could down like a billion cheeseburgers and not even gain like half a pound. But now her body is changing. Hermitabolism is changing and her body shape is changing. She used to be so incredibly petite, and now she had to adjust to existing in what she felt was like a larger body. I mean, regardless of her size, I think it's really hard for any woman considering how

society functions. So if Julie had any hope of going back to her modeling career, she's got to exercise, but she is too depressed. She cannot even get out of bed for days at a time. How is she going to go exercise? And then her weight added to her depression, and then she would stay in bed even longer, and there was just like this vicious cycle. And Tim said, I think she just felt trapped.

She was this party girl, and she had this life before the baby, and now she couldn't go and live that life like she was too. And it was hard for her. So Julie started seeing a psychiatrist, which again, okay, these were all the right things. Like they're doing all the right steps to get better. But the psychiatrist royally sucked. They put Julie on meds and was like, all right, we need you to remember more about your childhood trauma. So every session, they'd be like, what else do you remember? And Julie would sit there scanning her brain,

scanning her memories and be like, oh yeah, and then this happened, oh my God, I totally forgot about that. Now that you mention it, this happened and this happened. And then at the end, Julie would reopen all these wounds. These unresolved strong emotional memories and then the psychiatrist was like, good, good, that's good that you remember, but our session is over. Yeah, so bye.

In the next week they'd be like, what else do you remember? So basically, it was just adding more trauma than it was resolving. This was also around the same time that Julie contemplated taking her own life. She's falling apart, and I think that's terrifying. And I'm sure there are so many people who talk about this frequently, but postpartum depression is so terrifying. I mean, the fact that it can just unravel

someone's entire life. Like I just have so much respect for people who have given birth. It's incredible. Like all those hormones that are spiraling out of control, the self-image issues, the pain, the loss of identity, the risk of your own health and well-being, like it is so much to sacrifice.

So back to the story, Julian Tim's marriage was also falling apart. Basically, Tim felt like Julian always wanted reassurance and it felt like she almost wanted him to be a jealous person. But he wasn't. He's like, why do I have to do that? Basically, Tim was incredibly secure and stable, which is fine. But he didn't understand that Julie wanted some reassurance because she has baby weight

and you know, things weren't going well for her and she just felt really insecure and he was like, why are you being like this? Why are you being so clingy? To him, he just couldn't really comprehend why she needed him to tell her she looked fine. But she did. So the two tried couples counseling, but it didn't work. Julie wanted to stop going and she told him, you know, I don't like seeing two therapists in one week. Like I got my own personal therapy and now couples therapy, it's a lot. But that wasn't the truth. Julie told her friends later, well I don't know if I should even do couples therapy because my personal therapist is just encouraging that I divorce Tim.

What? Yeah, her therapist was bizarre. Yeah. Her personal therapist was basically like divorce babes, divorce. And Julie had a lot on her mind. Her therapist kept telling her that she was young and beautiful, she could easily find someone to take Tim's spot. And the therapist was trying to convince Julie that she needed independence because Julie

had essentially been in a relationship since she was 14 years old. She was a serial monogamous and they were like, you need time to explore yourself. Which I feel like you can do even if you're married. Like there is no perfect marriage, right? And I'm sure Tim had a lot of faults, including the fact that he couldn't just understand that his wife would need reassurance after giving birth and having her body go through so much transformations, you know. But the fact of the matter is, everybody that knew the couple said, Tim actually was really one of the good ones. Like, he supported her, never got jealous,

just wanted her to be happy, like, let her shine. But I think Julie couldn't see that in that moment. She just started talking to her friends about leaving Tim and trying to be independent. But she just wanted about it the wrong way. Julie started partying again and leaving Tim in the baby home as if she were still single, as if she didn't have a daughter to take care of. Not that being a mom is the only responsibility she has or that Tim shouldn't take care of the child too. It's just the fact that she was acting like she had no responsibilities. She started doing cocaine. Yeah, Tim had no idea. He thought her erratic behavior was a combination

of alcohol and antidepressants. And now remember how the couple usually went on that annual cruise? Usually they left in January. But this time Julie was like, let's go in November, you know? Wouldn't it be great to rekindle our relationship on this sexy Caribbean cruise? So Tim's like, you know what? You're right. So November 1 like, you know what, you're right. So November 1st, they left Katie with Julia and Flutus Anjuan to join the galaxy on its first winter season cruise. And something happened on that cruise that literally nobody saw coming. So the cruise was super fancy.

And Tim and Julie would spend a lot of time together during the day. But usually during the night they would split up. Tim liked to go to the room and rest, Julien liked to put on a sexy, low cut dress and go to the casino to make friends and get drunk. Sometimes during the day Tim would go take a nap and Julien would lounge at the pool, or at a casino and one day, and one of these occasions, a crew member approached Julien's struck up this conversation. His name was George and he told Julie,

three truths and two lies. Truth number one, his name was George. Truth number two, he was an engineer on the ship. Truth number three, it was his maiden voyage, his first trip. Line number one, he lied about his age. He said he was 28 but he was actually 23 years old. Line number two, he made it seem like he was very important to engineer on the trip, I mean, engineer sounds fancy, right? But in reality, he was a third engineer, which is the lowest rank a crew member can have. His job duties included maintaining the swimming pool and occasionally keeping lookout. So why did George lie?

Well he thought Julie was hot and unbeknownst to Julie. He had seen her for the past few days and figured that she was rich and saw that her husband was older. So he made a $10 bet with another crew member that he could get her to sleep with him. Wow, $10 bet. Yeah. Julie entertained the conversation not because she was interested in George, but because he was a high up crew member early she thought.

So she thought that she could network her way into some upgrades or a VIP connection. Yeah, for her and Tim. Tim actually spotted them talking at one point and he was not nervous. He never was nervous, even if George was super handsome and young, Tim would not have been jealous. But George, yeah, he was young, but he was not conventionally attractive. The most prominent thing people remembered about him was that he had an abysmal receding hairline and very, very bad teeth, which again was more like a personal choice.

It wasn't the lack of dentistry and where he came from. He's Greek. He just did not really take oral hygiene seriously. So throughout the entire cruise, George would talk to the couple, but mainly Julie. And the couple did not receive any special treatment because, well, George had no authority to give them any special treatment. But at the end of the trip, they all exchanged addresses. And to Tim, it was this innocent interaction.

It was all polite, it was all normal. He was too busy thinking about how his marriage was getting back to where it used to be, how he had reconnected with Julie. Meanwhile, Julie is not feeling damn. After their cruise, she confided in a friend that she was in lust. She had met someone on the cruise and they didn't do anything, she never cheated on Tim, but she couldn't stop thinking about it. What?

Tony, her friend, was shocked. I mean, all these years. Julie never once talked about another guy like this, and he told her, it's just a crush, you know, it's gonna go away. But Julie didn't let it go. In fact, George was writing her letters to New Jersey practically every day, and then he started calling, weekly, and incredibly Tim would answer the phone sometimes, know that it was George, and he wouldn't think anything of it.

He'd be like, here you go, Julie. Yeah. Meanwhile, George was trying to work his charm, pinpointing all of Julie's biggest insecurities. The fact that she was turning 30 soon, the fact that she was insecure about her looks, George was exploiting all of that, and trying to make her feel beautiful. He said, the reason that you don't feel beautiful is not because you're not, but it's because you are not with someone that makes you feel beautiful. And I can make you feel beautiful.

Honestly, he was just an asshole and he was really vague about his own life. While Julie was opening up to George, George was hiding a shit ton of things from her. He was working overtime to make sure that she didn't know the real him. He was hiding the fact that he was 23, of course, but also that he was having an affair with a coworker on the galaxy cruise. He had this nasty personality, so growing up, George had like no friends. And that sounds sad, but it's not. It's mainly because George felt like he was better than everybody else. Yeah, he was a loner. And ironically, the English translation of his last name, Skia Dopoulos is the son of shadows. Which sounds cool, but it's actually very creepy and foreboding, mainly because George was a violent person from the get-go. I mean, he was just super

aggressive at home. He had this impossible temper. A lot of family members were terrified of him. They speculated that he had inherited his mother, schizophrenia, which reportedly had her admitted to a local mental asylum multiple times. And just like Julie, George's parents got divorced, and George was used like a pawn in their bitter divorce. Fourteen-year-old George was forced to record conversations between his mom and her new boyfriend so that he could give it to his dad to later use against his mom. It was weird, and similar to Julie, George knew it was his dad that ruined the marriage, but he adored his father. Well not enough to not stab the guy.

Yeah, George straight up stabbed his dad in the neck during an argument and then pushed him down the stairs. You know, the good old fatherly stab and push your dad down the stairs. Yeah. He had to spend like a month in the hospital and he was on meds for years after this. George was sent to a mental institution put on meds for schizophrenia and when he got out everyone pretended he didn't just stab his dad.

They brushed it under the rug, which I'm off for moving on and getting people the right care that they need. But it was kind of wild that they pretended like it just didn't happen. This is all before he got a job. Yeah This is all when he's a teenager like 14 15 George's dad would later even use his connections to help find George a okay paying job on celebrity cruises aboard the galaxy cruise. Yeah, and the connections makes it sound like George and his family are from money But they're not his dad was a merchant though

So he knew a lot of people out at sea November 1st rolls around Georgian barks on his first trip and he meets Julie and he made it his mission the whole time to seduce Julie He knew that she was rich She was way out of his league and he wanted all of that He wanted a smart hot girl to date and if that man could quit his job and move off of her, then so be it. Julie was also at a very vulnerable point in her life, and she just kind of welcomed

George's attention. I think it was very much of, wow, this younger guy thinks I'm still attractive, because she was really insecure about turning 30. So having the attention of this young guy, it helped herself astute. And of course, Tim had no idea that Julie was drifting away from him. In fact, he thought things were better than ever. That Christmas that year, he even hired a Santa Claus to come to their house to give their daughter presents. It was such a cute moment. He did not realize that Julie had already mentally and emotionally checked out. And almost immediately after the Christmas party, Julie was like,

Hey, can we go on another cruise? He's like, what? We just went. But you know, I want to go. I think it'll be good. So he's thinking about it and it's like, okay, well, I guess we do the do the cruises on January and you know, what's the harm? It helped our relationship so much in November. January, this is going to cement the deal. We're going to be good after this. So we got on board. Pun intended. But then Julie was like, I wanna do the same exact cruise that we did in November. And he's like the same one.

And I mean, we could literally go anywhere in the world. If you really like, we could stay with the celebrity cruise line and just go to a different destination. I don't know why you would want the exact same schedule and during the same exact things that we just had what like 60 days ago. Tim chalked it up to Julie having so much fun that she just wanted to re-experience it.

He didn't even think of all the letters that she was getting or the phone call she got nearly daily from the receding hairline guy that worked on the cruise. What was it, just he thought it was a friend? Yeah, they had a friendship now. So he agreed and sure enough, January, George was there to greet the couple like old friends. And at first it was fine, but soon enough George was really getting on Tim's nerves. Not because he was flirting with Julie, which he was, but anywhere they turned, George was there. Like, do you not have a freaking job you got

to do or something? And George actually became a basis of one of their fights on the cruise. Tim started to get annoyed at George, and Julie was acting very suspicious. He just wanted to spend one night with his wife, and she was like, I'm gonna go out with the girls and George. So he threw up his arms and he was like, well then go see George then. And she did. Yeah, she went to the bar and started ranting about him to George, who of course was consoling her,

saying all the right things, because it's always easy to be on a high horse unless you're in that relationship. So he's like, oh yeah, I don't know why he's doing that. I would never do that. George leaned in for a kiss. Julie rejected him saying that she's a married woman, but after a few more drinks, she went back to his cabin and they had sex. When she got back from the cruise, she told all of her friends about it,

and everyone was shocked. It just wasn't like her. I mean, she was very proud too. She was angry almost. She gave the impression of like, screw Tim. I met someone else and now Tim can't hurt me anymore. My speculation is that Julie was going through a lot after giving birth. Her insecurities were starting to take over. She felt insecure, uncomfortable with her looks, her body, her career, and maybe she associated all those feelings with Tim because he wasn't helping her feel better. And now she felt like George could help her and because he could help her, maybe that meant that he loved her more than Tim did, which is just my speculation, because it was

shocking to all of her friends. Tony, her closest friend for years, the godfather of her child, tried to talk some sense in her. He was upset. He said, Julie, don't you realize that you're doing the same thing to Katie that your father did to you? Julie cut off Tony for George, which was confusing for everyone. And not to be rude, I'm just giving you context.

But George did not have much to offer. I know. I know that Tim is 11 years older than Julie, but he took care of himself. He was conventionally very attractive. He worked hard. He was a millionaire. George was young. That's really all he had going for him.

He didn't have a career that was established. He didn't have a career that was established, he didn't have a stellar personality really. He also was not very good looking, like I said, he had bad oral hygiene and a very intense or seating hairline and just a really nasty personality. But he was smooth. He knew the right things to say to Julie

and she was vulnerable. And maybe it was the cocaine and alcohol, maybe Julie was not thinking correctly. So when she gets back, Julie is talking to Georgian secret practically every single day because this time they have to be more careful, and Georgia would write her and he would say things like, you are my life. I love you from the bottom of my heart's nine here for you. Maybe it sounds stupid, crazy, and nobody can believe that, but who knows the truth but us. I do love you. Sound your macho baby man. That's what he called himself. Your macho baby man. And he would add hearts and kisses all over the letters like a little middle schooler.

And it worked. Julie was so infatuated. She came up with this whole master plan to go see him without Tim knowing and she even recruited her mom to help. But when Julia found out what she was going on a trip was not a girl's trip and it was basically to help Julie cheat She was pissed But what could she do when she got back? She was even more sure about her feelings with George and Tim basically said either were on or were off like either We're together or you're in it 100% or we're just divorced and before she even responded He demanded a divorce and I think he just had a good feeling like he knew what was going on.

So just like that, all it took was when media mugly wannabe sailor, sorry George but not really because he's pure evil, but all it took was one dude to ruin their whole marriage, their whole perfect life. Tim moved out, let Julie live in their house, but he wasn't going to let her take half of his money. In fact, he was really smart with it. He never made Julie a shareholder in his company and he was really well protected throughout their marriage in the case of a divorce So don't get me wrong Julie was gonna get money, but it wasn't gonna be half of what Tim had

But George was disappointed. He still wanted whatever Julie was getting and he kept telling her just hurry up and get the divorce get your money and move to Greece We can be together, we can get married. Julie flew to Vancouver to see him, he was working on a different cruise. She even stayed in his cabin with all this sexy lingerie that she bought just for him. She had been exercising, dieting for George, and she really did dream of moving with Katie all the way to Greece to be with George. I mean, if I'm being honest, I am completely floored by Julie's mental state at this point. I mean, she has this child.

She has this life that most people would dream of having. She and Tim were millionaires. She had a shot at modeling still. She was young. She had so much to live for. And it's so sad to know that Julie was so mentally unwell that she couldn't even see how well she had it. She was depressed, abusing alcohol, abusing drugs, her brain chemicals were all over the

place. She needed a very competent professional. She did not need George Skiodopoulos. But unfortunately, he was like a little parasite. He happened to be at the right place at the wrong time and now he had latched on onto Julie and there was no getting rid of him. He even convinced her to get off her antidepressence because he said he didn't like medication. But let's be real, he just wanted her to be easier to manipulate. So she was just on cocaine, staying up into the wee hours of the night waiting for George's

call because they are in a different time zone. And when they were finally done talking, she couldn't fall asleep because of the cocaine, so she would take tranquilizers to fall asleep, and then she would wake up, do cocaine, work out, and she was restricting her food intake, she was on a crazy diet. I mean, it was so unhealthy. And honestly, I don't think Julie would have even entertained George if she were herself. I mean, during her career, Julie was propositioned by a ton of wealthy attractive men that were arguably either more attractive than Tim or arguably more wealthier than Tim. But she never cared. Not once did she even feel tempt or anything, but somehow George wheezelled his way into

her life because she wasn't in the right state of mind. So she started slowly isolating from her friends and family, even her dreams. So George in the beginning was like, you need to model. You need to follow your dreams. You can still do it. But now when she told him she contacted modeling agencies, he flipped out. He was like, you're going to be doing some horseshit. He was just jealous and insecure that if she got a job, she would find someone else and

leave him. So he refused to quote, let her model. Cheryl, Julie's model friend tried to reason with her. She was like, Julie, why are you letting this random guy tell you what to do? You barely know him. Why are you throwing away all your dreams? For what? Tim would have never stopped you from pursuing your dreams. So what are you doing? Julie told George about this conversation and he convinced her to cut Cheryl off

because she was a horrible friend and she was just jealous of what they had. Meanwhile, George is still out there partying it up, flirting with women all the freaking time. He's still having an affair with a crew member, which by the way, he told Julie about it and she was pissed. She told George in a letter, I feel like you put a knife in my heart. Nothing is more important to me than you are.

You always tell me that I'm number one, but then you have to hang up after only talking for five minutes. I don't understand. I try and do everything to make you smile because I love you so much. Why did you say that my love for you is going down? Don't you know that it hurts me every time you say that? I hate it when you say that. Don't say it again. I don't feel happy now. So this guy cheated on her and is trying to tell her and guilt trip her that she doesn't love him as much anymore I'm sorry what like the levels of manipulation insane George even encouraged Julie to get a restraining order on Tim because he was quote spying on her

How would George know he wouldn't know but he convinced her He convinced her that she needed full custody and she should bring Katie to Greece with her and in the letters He referred to Katie as an, I quote, our daughter. Honestly, I think that he wanted Julie's child in Greece because it would be another way to manipulate Julie. Oh, and add to that, he kept telling Julie that he needed to hit her own child,

that the way that she was disciplining Katie was not harsh enough. I, how do you, how do you, without any kids, give parenting advice? And then out of the blue, George called Julie and was like, hey, baby, guess who quit, give parenting advice? And then out of the blue, George called Julian was like, Hey baby, guess who quit his job for you? Yeah.

The guy quit his job because he wanted to visit New Jersey, live in her house and live off of her money. Meanwhile, Julian's deteriorating. The drugs, the alcohol, it was starting to catch up. She had headaches, awful stomach cramps. She lost her appetite completely. But somehow even that George convinced her that it was because they weren't together. So she was experiencing these physical pains. When they were reunited, they would be okay.

So she keeps writing time things like, I want your body, I can't bear to be without you. Thank you for everything you did to make me feel better. It worked. You really understand what makes me tick, and you know what to say. You make me love you even more than I thought possible. Like I said, I love you more today than yesterday, but not as much as tomorrow. And with that, she flew into New Jersey. Oh, and one of the first things she did was get him a dental appointment first teeth and a appointment to get a hair transplant because his hair was receding. She even brought George to people that knew Tim well, so like the guy doing the hair transplant, and he's all like, uh, aren't you married to Tim? Yeah, their divorce wasn't even finalized yet. So Julie paid for the hair transplant

and George was just straight up living off of her. He would lounge all day. Sometimes he would go to the gym with Julie, but that was about it. And Julie was paying for everything on her credit card that was connected to Tim's accounts because their divorce wasn't finalized. All of Julie's friends at this point had enough. George had convinced Julie that all of them were working for Tim and plotting against her and they were just over it. At one point, George convinced her that the speaker system in their house was being used to spy on Julie, so he ripped all the wiring from inside the drywall. And just when you thought, he was the worst he could be. He was in a contest with himself to see who was more scum, and spoiler alert, George

always beat George, so George choked Julie's mom. They got into an argument and he straight up choked her. Julie's mom said it was terrifying. He was pounding on the wall, grabbing me by the neck. I mean, he had this terrible temper, and she called Tim and he encouraged her to call the police. Together, they worked to get Katie away from Julie and George. They felt unsafe for Katie. And because George was Greek, the authorities were like, hey, either we're going to go through with all of this, or you can't, I got a hair back to Greece. So that's what he did. He got on a plane with the ticket that Julie paid for. And for whatever

reason, Julie continued to protect George. She even told her friends, no, I'm the ticket that Julie paid for. And for whatever reason, Julie continued to protect George. She even told her friends, no, I'm the one that strangled my mom. And George was just taking the fall from me. But nobody believed her. Julie settled in her divorce and was getting close to a million dollars. So at this point, she's going around telling everyone that she's going to take the one million dollars in Katie and move to Greece, and Tim was not freaking having it. I mean, it was very hard for Julie to stand up to Tim and family court.

All of their former friends, all of Julie's closest friends, were taking Tim's side for the sake of their child. They had to do what was right. Julie was unstable, George was violent and terrifying to be around, so it was clear. Julie was not getting Katie. So after the divorce, she just hopped on the plane and headed for Greece She was like okay then bye at first Greece was beautiful It was warm the couple were united. They were going around sightseeing shopping for souvenirs

They ate traditional Greek food. They had a blast. There was a mischews First of all all of Julie's stuff was still in the States So she wasn't officially moved yet. This was like her first trip to see if she liked it. Second of all, Julie was not allowed to tell Georgia's family that she was divorced or that she had a child. So she had the most important parts of her life from Georgia's family. I mean, I don't know if Georgia's family would have cared, but I wouldn't have cared. Like, if you were dating me and you were telling me to lie about something the most important

part of my life or a big part of my life being a mom, I'd be out the door. So it says a lot about where she was at this point in her life. After this initial trip, she's like, yeah. For sure, I got to move here. It was amazing. George even convinced her that they were going to spend all of her divorce settlement on a taxi business and they were going to make so much money. I mean, it sounded romantic to be starting this business in Greece of all places.

So she left once more, but Julie didn't know, and her family didn't know that this was the last time that they were going to be seeing her alive. In Greece, they rented this hotel and they were looking for this perfect apartment together. I mean, they were excited. They were getting married soon. So during the day, they would go apartment shopping. Then at night, they would go party and drink. Julie was so drunk so often that she would forget the time difference in US. And even Christmas Day went by where she didn't talk to her daughter, because she forgot about the time difference.

And she was already asleep. So it sounds like everything's going well for her at least, right? Until January 11th, one of Julie's closest friends, Sue gets a phone call and it's George. And he's frantic like the first few words that he blurt's closest friends, Sue, gets a phone call. And it's George. And he's frantic, like the first few words that he blurt out her, I can't find her. What?

What do you mean you can't find her? Calm down, tell me what happened. George was frantic, the connection is bad. She could hardly hear him, but she gathered a couple of things. Julie went to Athens with George that weekend. She was gonna pick up some stuff that she had shipped to Greece from the airport, and it was a long day. Now, that night, after everything, they went to this huge market at night and it was just

bustling and hustling of all these people bumping around. I mean, it was one of those night markets. And while they were shopping, Julie and George split up and she disappeared into the crowd and he hadn't seen her since. He waited for her, but nothing. He looked everywhere for her, but nothing. He was so confused, he was so scared, he called his dad and together they looked for her and looked for her, but nothing. He was so confused, he was so scared, he called his dad, and together they looked for her and looked for her and then nothing. So they went to the police and the police were like, eh, she's a tourist, she probably got lost or maybe,

you know, she's having fun. When George told Sue this, her first feeling was relief. And no, she did not hate Julie and she did not want her friend or ex-friend to be missing, but that was typical Julie. When she was done with a place or ex-friend to be missing, but that was typical Julie. When she was done with a place or when she was done with someone, she didn't really need a whole conversation. She's the type to just freaking leave, okay? She's like, okay then, bye, I'm done, right? She had been telling Sue that she was over Greece, so Sue thought she was on a plane on the

way home to see her daughter. She was happy. Julie seemed to be getting over this George phase. But her relief came tumbling down when George mentioned and she left her passport behind. So now she's like, okay, this is weird. So with this information, she hangs up and calls Tim. Then Tim hangs up and they go around calling all of Julie's former friends and they start coming together to talk about what happened. And it was clear that Julie was missing. So her friends, they get involved. They spread the word of her disappearance, and it became national news in the US, because

well, a young mother, a model leaving her wealthy family for a great guy with bad teeth that she met on a cruise, it was a sensational story. The media pressure was a lot, so when the police finally get involved, I mean, yeah, George is the number one suspect. He's looking very suspicious. So they bring him in, expecting him to give a bizarre alibi or a bizarre story, and this guy did not disappoint. He said, fine, fine, I'll tell you what happened, okay?

Julie was miserable here. She doesn't like Greece. I mean, she was straight up miserable, okay guys. So I told her to pack it up and go home because I have to enlist in the army for my mandatory two-year service in Greece. So I was like, go. And then afterwards we can date again, but she refused.

She was like, I can't go anywhere without you, George. So like a normal person, I thought if I was violent enough with her, she would leave. Wow. And I would go and enlist in the army. And then when I'm done with my two-year army enlistment, we would date again. It was flawless logic.

So I just wanted Julie to be happy, but she wouldn't leave. So I tried to strangle her to get her to leave, and she still wouldn't leave. So anyway, January 8th, you know, we're in the car, driving on the highway. Desi'll let stretch of road. Nobody else was on the road, and the sun had set. We ended up fighting.

I pull over, and I shut off the engine and I knew that she sent something because there was like fear in her eyes, you know? And he leaned over and wrapped his hands around her neck and squeezed. The bones in her neck were crushed and her body went limp and slipped down the passenger seat. And she was dead. He said that?

Yeah, so he was claiming he did it so that it was a crime of passion. He just wanted to choke her a little so that she would go back to America. Now the truth is very different. Julie had her stuff shipped to the airport. And when they got to the airport, she had it shipped back to New Jersey, and that's when she broke a tim, she's going back. She wanted to be with her daughter.

She was done with this. They weren't meshing. It's just, didn't seem right. She did not want to marry him. She did done with this. They weren't meshing. It's just, didn't seem right. She did not want to marry him. She did not want to leave her divorce settlement with him. But George claimed, you know, I wasn't happy about killing her. I was devastated. When I was done, I thought, okay, what's left?

I can just cremate her body, throw her ashes in the sea where we met. Because, you know, it's poetically met at sea, and now she's in the sea. And then I was going to throw myself off the cliff to join her. I just couldn't be without her. So he threw her body in the trunk, went to go buy a can of gasoline, drove into the woods and lit her body on fire. I guess to cremate her. The fire was not hot enough and all it did was char her corpse.

Even her clothing and skin were still intact, but they were charred. So George said he felt bad throwing her in the water like this. So he drove to his grandma's house, borrowed one of her big suitcases, tried to stick her body in, but her head kept popping out. So he had no choice. He severed her head off. And he said he gave her severed head one last kiss, and even though her head was all charged and decapitated, she looked beautiful. Later someone spotted her head in the water, but it was too disfigured to confirm that it was her. Georgia's telling all of this to the police by the way, and he's seemingly so calm. And to add to that, he said he was so sad about what happened, he tried to take his own

life. He claimed that he tried to shoot himself in the neck with a BB gun, he jumped in front of a truck, and yeah, which that's unclear, was he run over? Did he just jump in front of a truck from like, I don't know, a mile away? He claimed he took an overdose of pills, but this guy is proving to be superhuman because he was not successful or even injured in any of these attempts, and now he was in jail trying to bleed insanity. And the judge was not having it. And I have so much respect for Tim after his wife left him so publicly publicly this is like international news at this point

but he flew to Greece because the media was obsessed with victim blaming all the headlines were grave detention, crews' lack of birth control if you play with fire you're gonna get burned. What? So he flew to Greece for the trial to humanize Julie. And in the end, George was found guilty and given life in prison without parole. It's again widely believed that he killed Julie because she was ready to leave. George appealed to Seton staying that it was a crime of passion and it was not premeditated murder, and for some strange reason the court agreed. His Seton was lowered to just 23 years in prison, and not only that, he got out on parole, and has been free since 2007.

He's been living in Greece with a whole family, like he's married. And as for Julie's body, they had her body flown back to Jersey for a funeral. And Tim and Julie's friends all put together this journal of all the ways that Julie was great. Because the whole world, all the media, all the news outlets was telling everyone that Julie was a bad mom. Julie was a bad wife. She was a bad person. She got what was coming because then don't have an affair. Oh, don't leave your perfect life. She was ungrateful. Honestly, I think this is a story of a woman who was desperately struggling with postpartum and other depressions.

So they came up with this journal of all the good things that Julie did for them, and they gave it to Katie. So she would know that her mom was a great person, regardless of what the world was saying. Her daughter went on to graduate college, seems to be opening up a business and leading an incredibly successful life, just like her mother. So I'm glad that the family was able to recover from the trauma the best that they can. I wish them nothing but happiness and success. Again, I really do think that this case

is not about an affair gone wrong. It's really not like any of the other stories we've done where it's like, oh, I'm just so in love with this other person. So like I need to, you know, I think it really shows how much it could impact someone when they're a mental state. Yes. In a different place.

It's really scary. I think it's like to me what I see is this smart, talented woman who is so outgoing was just so, I'm imagining so fun to be around and then postpartum hit that led her to drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and it just spiraled into this mental health journey that ended with this path that led to George. And honestly, if George wasn't on that path, I think that Julie might have been able to recover with the help of her friends, her family.

I mean, it seemed like she had such a good support system, but the fact that he was there at the right place at the right time and ready to manipulate. I don't know, what are your thoughts on this case? Just makes me so sad. That's it for this week's mini-suit, and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye!