Rotten Mango - #213: The Sound of Her Hypnotic Voice Turned Him Into a “Killer Wolf”

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

When you open the front door you might be expecting a package, the mailman, or even your Karen neighbor, but you wouldn’t expect Greg Marlow. I know you’re thinking the name doesn’t ring a bell. It didn’t either for Cyndi when she opened the door to see him. But there he was, in his tight shirt, handsome, smiling smoothly at her. There were a few things Cyndi would soon find out about this mysterious man on her doorstep. He didn’t show up by chance. He heard her voice and fell in love. They were going to be lovers. He was going to be her one-way ticket to the death penalty. Oh, and he was a wolf. Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Betta being betta boot. Welcome to this week's main episode of Ryan Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Now, when you open your front door, you might be expecting a package. Maybe the mailman, maybe your Karen neighbor, maybe it's a salesman trying to get you to purchase solar panels. You most likely would not be expecting a Greg Marlow.

You're like, what? The name doesn't even ring a bell. It didn't ring a bell for Cindy, either, when she opened the front door. But here he was, Greg. In any other situation, Cindy would have been so freaked out, but it helped because Greg was tall. Handsome, he had this tight shirt on that was accentuating his muscles and torso.

His voice sounded like butter, so smooth, but there were a couple things about him that Cindy just didn't know. That he didn't just show up to her house by chance. He was there for a reason. Even though Cindy didn't know him, he knew her. He had heard her voice before and he tracked her down. Cindy also didn't know that he had a swastik at tattoo on his chest or the fact that they were going to be lovers and he was going to be her one-way ticket to the death penalty. Oh, and she definitely didn't know that he was a wolf. Mm-hmm. A wolf.

As always, full show notes are available at Rottenminglepodcast.com but there is a really good book on this case. It's called Property of the Folsom Wolf by Don Nassiter. So Don Nassiter is a very meticulous investigative reporter. I mean, this is such a detail to count on the crimes. I highly recommend it to anyone that wants to know more about this case. He poured his all into getting the facts onto papers, so make sure you check it out. And with that being said, let's dive into it, shall we? What defines someone as creepy? Or like, what defines a situation as creepy? I mean, sure, we can sit there and list off a few things that we look for, but more, more of them than not,

it's like a gut feeling, right? You just kind of feel it and you're like, oh, that was creepy. Well, there was actually an interesting study done where people were asked to determine what made someone creepy. They listed things like, a person who stands close to me or my friend. The person has greasy hair, a peculiar smile, bulging eyes, too long of fingers, unkept hair, very pale skin, bags under their eyes,

dressed oddly. Not even just funky, but just dressed out of place. Maybe when they lick their lips too frequently, or laugh at unpredictable times. That made a lot of the participants in the study just feel so uneasy. But none of these are real indicators that someone is creepy. Maybe they just have dry lips and an over-the-oily scalp and the lack of sleep because they've been working really hard to put food on the table. But sometimes you just know when something's off. Like you just, you can't put your finger on it, but maybe, maybe it's like one thing.

Remember the dressing oddly thing? This applies to this situation. For example, let's say you go into a parking lot in the middle of November. It's freezing. And you see a woman wearing a blue summer dress sleeveless, just wandering around. It's a little creepier than someone who's wearing, you know, a nice jacket, dressed for the times, dressed for the weather, and walking around. If you see someone in a summer dress, it's a little more unsettling.

What if they're shivering and you can see them shivering? Maybe their eyes are bulging out. They're trying to talk to some excuse me miss. Excuse me. You look like a like a student. You got a college nearby? Our car is broken down and we share could use a ride. That's what happened to Karina. She found herself unsettled by this woman in front of her. Her summer dress in the winter, her almost military style haircut, like it was so I wouldn't say it's a buzz cut, but it was close to it. And it just looked like someone had done it at home.

It was choppy, it was messed up. Everything about this woman looked odd and out of place. When Karina looked over at her partner, she was motioning towards. He was this tall and muscular guy that just looked interesting. Now, we don't know what happens next, but it's safe to assume that Karina was unsettled enough to not help them, but the couple would end up in her car anyway, and she would never be seen alive ever again.

Karina Del Novis, she grew up milking cows. I'm serious, she grew up on a dairy farm and whatever help her parents needed, she did it. She would milk the cows, she would mow the hay, she spent most of her time outdoors just enjoying the nature, their farm, riding their horses. And well, there wasn't really much else to do. So, you know, she grew up in Gooding Idaho. Have you heard of that place? It sounds beautiful, but the population is like 2,800 people. Maybe more if you include cows, maybe it'd be like a lot of people, but yet just 2,800 residents.

I mean, it sounds like the picturesque life, right? But Karina wasn't really the type to just pick one thing and do it as easily as possible. So she's milking the cows, she's riding the horses, she really was someone that you would look at and just be confused. You'd be like, how do we have the same 24 hours in a day? It doesn't make sense. In high school, she was a cheerleader on the varsity track team competed in state championships, road horses, where she was really good. She won ribbons at the local shows, ate healthy food, helped around the farm, and she still had enough energy to work part time. Wow. And this is in high school. She's earned in her own money. Sometimes if babysitting was slow, she would clean up people's houses. She would waitress at the local diner. It was all super physically demanding

jobs to add to her physically demanding sports. I mean, she was extremely energetic. Even in college, she did not slow down. She was doing a lot. She volunteered at the American Red Cross. She was a lifeguard, a swim teacher, which, side note, she saved a kid's life in the pool when he nearly drowned. So I would say, she would really get it her job. Literally, how did she have the time, energy, and even determination to do all of this?

She even made time to date, which is wild. She starts dating this guy named Mike McFadden, and he lived 10 miles away from her. She didn't have a car, so what does she do? She starts biking 10 miles one way to go see him and then bike all the way back. This is while she's still getting good grades on top of everything else. Now eventually, Mike gets accepted into a college in California and Karina's like, you know what? I want to see what's there. And I know it sounds like Karina's obsessed with the guy.

She's like, oh my god, I got to go to California to be with my boyfriend. It really wasn't like that. She's like, I want to go to California because I've never been to California. And I feel like I could do a lot in California. So she moves, falls in love with the state. I mean, this is like a huge turning point in her life.

She felt like she was finally opening up to the world. The opportunities are endless. She's in she was finally opening up to the world. The opportunities are endless. She's in love. Until she wasn't in love. For how serious this couple were, and how young they were in their romantic lives, they were so much her in the breakup. I mean, imagine, Karina moves all the way to California, sure for other things, but also for this boyfriend, right? But the breakup is so classy. She didn't mope around even though she technically moved here for him. She felt like there was just so much life had to offer.

She had gotten a really fun job at an insurance company. She worked part-time at the ice cream parlor, which is like side note. Karina's the type of girl she quit the ice cream parlor, right? She had so much work going on. She's like, I gotta go. Like, I can't be scooping ice cream no more, right?

She quits her job and she would visit all the time. If it ever got busy, she would hop behind the counter and help for free. Wow. That seems a lot. Yeah, it says a lot about her. Literally, it seems like nobody had a bad thing to say about Karina.

So after the breakup, Karina isn't moping around like crying. She's like, what do I need to do to move on from this? I mean, I can get a new place to live. It's going to be money's going to be tight, but I'm going to cover the rent. It's going to be fine. And she's like, okay, and then I just need a car. But if I'm spending all my money on rent, I can't afford a car. So she buys a mo pad. You know, those little cute bikes. And she's like, okay, while I save up from my car, I'm going to drive my mo pad from the apartment to work and back and forth. And that's my mode of transportation. Well, her parents, next time she visited Gooding Idaho,

they're like, we are gonna surprise you. With a brand new Honda CRX. And she was over the frickin' moon, okay, it was white. It was the perfect car. I mean, it just fit her needs. She was so grateful. She's like, oh my god, mom, dad, I'm gonna take such good care of it. It's gonna be my new baby. I'm not it just fit her needs. She was so grateful. She's like, oh my God, Mom, Dad, I'm going to take such good care of it.

It's going to be my new baby. I'm not even going to run over a curb. I promise. She took so much care of that car and she was so happy. So back in California with her new car, Karina gets invited to a flat party and she's like, okay, let me get ready. She's running errands all day before the party.

Goes to the mall to pick up these new earrings and she's like I'm gonna look cute, but she also doesn't want to be late. That's when she met. Yes. Oh no And as she's leaving with her earrings and she's rushing to the car like this is not a situation and I wouldn't blame her even if this was the situation But if this is not a situation where she's browsing on her phone and just leisurely walking to her car She's be lining it to her car, she's beligning at her car. She needs to go home, put her makeup on, get to the frat party. And this young woman approaches her, saying that she and her partner need help since their

car broke down. And Karina was never seen again. The couple were Cindy and Greg, and they had taken Karina away to do very bad things to her. I knew the events weren't going to be good when I found out that Greg had sex with his mom and he was proud of it. Yeah, we're gonna get into this couple, okay? Cynthia Lynn Haskins went by Cindy.

She did not have a great entrance into this world. You know how babies come out screaming and crying? That's the norm, that's actually a healthy baby. But usually they're quickly picked up in a soft blanket and then thrown into their mom's arms and they're usually lovingly caressed on the face and fed delicious milk and they're cushioned and every touch is so soft because they're like a fragile little flower, right? The goal is the child should know no pain for a very long time, but Cindy was born with pain embedded in her body. She was born with a bilateral hernia.

So to put it simply, she had these two giant bumps protruding grotesquely from both sides of her groin. It was painful beyond imagination. Baby Cindy would scream and agony all day long, and the doctors are like, we can take it out, it's not going to be a lifelong thing, but we need to wait till she's at least a month old. We can't operate on her right now. She's a newborn baby. So Cindy lived the first six weeks on this planet in agonizing pain.

She finally would have the operation at six weeks old, but the damage was already done. Listen, I've heard of this in a few other cases before, and I'm not sure how developed this scientific research is on this theory, but Cindy went without physical contact from her mom for the first few weeks of her life. Because every time she moved around, every time someone even touched her a little bit reared, she would be in so much pain. So even though it's not

a time period, most people remember, like, I don't remember the first six weeks of my life, but it's that a lack of physical bonding with your mom in the first four-minute years of your life, four-minute weeks of life, can have lifelong effects. So fascinating. And what's fascinating is this doesn't apply to dads. Really? Are you sure? Well, you need some sort of contacts, but this is what I heard.

Babies think that they are an extension of their mom. So in their head, they can't differentiate between, we are two separate individuals. So they think they're an extension of their mom. So when they're pulled away from their mom, it's like, whoa, I'm off balance. This is what's grounding me. And now you've taken this thing away from me. Like, where am I? Who am I? Okay, that makes sense, I guess. But whereas they don't have that connection with the dad, typically. And I don't know how real this is, right?

But this is like the speculation. I'm sure there's some sort of medical, you know, analysis on this, but let me know if you know more because it's fascinating. Now, in most cases, the effects are typically subtle, right? But if her Cindy, it was blaring the obvious. She rejected her mom completely and so utterly from the second that she was born until the rest of her life. And the reason is unclear. Cindy oddly loved her dad. She would be so sweet, giggle with him, but every stage of her life, she had such a hard time making an emotional connection with her mom, no matter

how hard her mom tried. I mean, this would have been tense for any young couple, but Cindy's parents, Sally and Bob, they were married young, they had a lot of underlying issues already, money was tight, they both felt resentful because they're like I'm throwing away my youth, my career, my whole lives to have children. And now Bob is blaming Sally. Bob is like maybe you're not a good mom. Why does she love me and not you? Sally is upset because she's like, I literally birthed this child. You don't know shit, Bob. You've never had a child come out of your body.

You don't know anything shut up. So they start arguing all the time. And this arguing turns into like full on screaming matches, which turned into slapping and hitting. They did have another kid, by the way, and trust me, the kids heard everything. Like, the couple did nothing to hide their hatred towards each other. And one day, it all came to a climactic end when Cindy's younger brother went up to their mom and was like,

Hey, mom, last night while you were at work, Daddy made us go to bed early. He and the lady wanted to go to sleep. So he made us go to bed early. Sally was stunned. She didn't know what was worse, the fact that our husband cheated or the fact that he had done it so brazenly in front of their children. This was the moment that the couple were divorced. But not on paper. I mean, it was clear that they hated each other and there was no hope. That one day they would have a normal functioning relationship.

But for some reason, they still decided to keep going, keep dating, keep having children. They had three children together, and eventually, they would officially divorce. Sally would scoop up the kids, and here's the crazy thing. Sally actually did her best to raise them. In most stories we cover like this, it's like, oh well, Sally went on a date. Sally went on to date the world's worst men ever

that were all physically abusive and potentially sexually abusive towards her kids. But actually, no. Sally went on to marry a guy named Carl Anderson and Carl was a good dude. He was dependable. He was good with his money. He was smart, very religious, very loyal.

The kids were calling him dad. He had Sally going back to church. I mean, by all means, he was the right pick, but it was just a little too late, you know. How old was she then? So Sally was maybe in her early teens and right before this when she was 12, they had lived in this apartment building and I think that something might have happened. Sally's 12 and the skyening Joe lived in this building. He's old, maybe 40s. And he would constantly

visit Sally and her children. And then one day Cindy's brother noticed that Joe was trying to kiss Cindy. So she was straight up being groomed by a neighbor when she was 12 years old. I mean, we don't know if more happened with this joke character, we don't know. But it was really bad. And when Sally found out, she, again, trying to be the best mom possible that she can be in this situation, she moved out immediately. But it just wasn't enough.

And on top of that, Cindy did not form any emotional connection with her mom. By the time that she's a teenager, I mean, they're throwing around insults, getting into physical fights. If Sally ever got fed up and slapped her daughter, which like, I'm judging her for that. But Cindy would have no fear and just slapped her mom right back. Carl couldn't step in and help it. I mean, if felt like these two women were just destined to hate each other, it felt like he was written in the stars.

There was not even a moment where they sat down and they were like, you know what? Let's stop this fighting, mom. I love you. No, there was none of that. Cindy started acting up even more in high school skipping classes, doing drugs. One time after a particularly nasty fight with her mom,

Carl stepped in and said, Hey, you don't talk to your mother like that. If you're gonna live under this roof, you're gonna have to abide by the rules. Fine, that's the way you want it. Cindy runs upstairs, packs her bags, dramatically runs down, and Carl says, you know what, I'm gonna put my foot down.

He helps open the front door for Cindy, and waves his hand and said, go ahead if you think you can do it. Cindy was gone for three months and she came back pregnant. Yeah, she got pregnant with a guy named Ron Kaufman. Oh, where's she then? She's like 17. Yeah, Cindy would give birth and for the sake of their child,

the two get married. But honestly, neither of them cared about the baby at all. They would end up just giving the baby to Ron's parents to take care of. And Cindy drifted away once more. She's working these low wage jobs, dating a few guys that were no good for her. She took drug after drug and finally she had enough. Cindy's like, I'm not the problem. I'm not the freaking problem.

The whole state of Missouri is the freaking problem. I gotta get out of here. So she moves to Arizona, then eventually California, and she starts dating here and there, and she felt like she had matured, you know? Her brief marriage to Ron was different, they're divorced now, but Cindy had grown, and her love had grown, and she started dating this guy named Sam. These two felt like they were the real deal. They smoked pot together.

They had intense sexual chemistry. And sure they fought. And sure Cindy tried to run him over with her card and argument. But they handled it like real adults, you know. It was smooth sailing. Sam even encouraged Cindy to get her kid back, which is so strange considering she had no interest in her son up until this point. But they're like, yeah, that's your son. And we're going to be great parents. So they go to Missouri, march over to Ron's parents house, and they demand to have the baby back. I mean, just imagine Cindy standing there

with this unknown dude next time, just being like, give me that child back that I've never cared for for a day in my life. The police escorted the couple off the property, and Cindy was devastated. She considered it the loss of her son, even though she never cared about her son. It's so fascinating to me that people will switch their mind one day.

I don't know. I'm trying to understand. We're not parents. I don't know how, what it feels like. But going from, I don't care to like, all I want is my kid bag. Yeah, that's so weird to me. Or is it the feeling of now that I want my kid and you won't give it to me? That makes me want it even more. I think so. I also think it's this of now that I want my kid and you won't give it to me? That makes me want it even more.

I think so. I also think it's this romanticization that happens. Because, okay, I'm gonna be honest. Most parents, I have so much respect for, but parents that do this, they're like, I don't care about my kid. It's not even about giving them a better life. I just don't care about my kid,

and then throw them away so that they can party. And later they care. It's almost, I feel like for Cindy at least, it was this romanticization of like, I'm, I could be a good mom. And he's like hyping her up and she's creating this character of like this wounded. I could do this if I could just, the world is so cruel, you know. Yeah, yeah.

But it's like, no, Cindy, you're a horrible mom. Cindy was devastated and she considered this a loss of her son. Again, she didn't even care about her son. So when that failed, her relationship with Sam started to sink too. I think that they were just hooked on this mission together. I get your son back, look at us, we're going to romanticize being parents. Cindy tried to get her life together by working at one of the local bars and a lot of unruly patrons stopped by. So she bought a 22 caliber handgun and kept it in her purse at all times.

It was a tiny little gun, but like most weapons, it would pack a punch. Now, this gun was never gonna be fired, but it is super important to this story later, so keep this in mind. It was always, always, always in her purse. And another weird thing to note was that Cindy and Sam, before they officially broke up,

they got arrested together. Super romance, okay. They were arrested for wielding that gun around and driving under the influence, as well as having an assortment of pills wrapped up in little plastic baggies and Cindy's bag. Cindy was like, oh, after a few nights in jail. But Sam was going to be there for a while. He had other charges, a lot of priors, so it was harder to get him out. But this is pertinent to the story, because Sam, being in jail, triggered a sequence

of events that led to a man knocking on Cindy's door. And that man was Greg. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift. Whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. You are inhaling and long exhale. Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it,

download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. Greg was named James Gregory Marlow. He was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, and you know the saying opposites attract? It could not have been more correct and more harmful than in Greg's parents' relationship. Greg's dad was a serious businessman, not necessarily successful, but like a very serious guy, okay? And his mom Doris was almost nine years younger, she was also super serious, but just about partying in drugs.

Like she was seriously into cocaine. They only got married because she had gotten pregnant. And listen, Doris is something else, like I don't know how to put it nicely. Even after having a kid, she refused to work, blew all the money that her husband brought in on drugs. She wasn't even physically around to help take care of the kids. Just drugs non-stop snorting line after line. So it wasn't really a shock to anyone when the two get divorced and Doris takes the kids,

moves back to her hometown to get help. And by get help it was more like, here take my baby I'm going to party. And the lady could party. I don't think I've ever met someone like this, thank God. But she could go out and party for two weeks, every single night, not even like, oh, I went out two Saturdays in a row, but I'm talking Monday through Sunday for two weeks.

She'd probably be sober for like five hours in two weeks. So these host or babysitters or fake parents would expect that doors would be back later that same day, because that's what she would say. And she only dropped off maybe a fourth of a gallon of milk. But then she would be gone for two weeks. I mean, did she think that was enough food for a kid? Enough milk for her children in two weeks? Or did she not care? And to make matters worse, Doris decided she was gonna bring another child into this world. A daughter named Veronica. So we have Greg and Veronica. And Greg very much had that textbook toxic house.

You know, the story that we've heard a lot on this podcast. His mom wasn't around. She was too busy participating in winter sports, snow sports, cocaine. Her choice in men was horrendous, and they really didn't like Greg, so he would get beat up for the smallest infractions, he would get smacked around for literally doing nothing. You know as a child it's terrifying. Greg said the worst punishment he got when he was young was, they forced him into the cupboard

under the sink for hours at a time. It's giving Harry Potter. It's giving the boy who lived. But in this case it'll be the boy who killed. So while the daughter of Veronica was spoiled by her biological father with sweets and cookies and candies, Greg the unwanted steps ungot nothing. And honestly, Veronica barely got those treats too. The family was dirt poor. They lived in a super rural part of Kentucky where it was very hard to make a living, and it showed on the kids. The kids were dirty,

ragged, hungry, they would have sores on the corners of their mouths. Their clothes were just down to the last threads. Like, if I poked my finger and threw their shirt, it would probably poke all the way through. They didn't wash it well, it was completely falling apart. Their shoes were so worn out that when they walked around, the soles of their shoes would be separated and slap around like flip flops, but they were sneakers. Veronica would later develop chronic kidney problems due to malnutrition. Now, Doris would end up divorcing her second husband, but you have to give it to them for trying everything else before divorce. He had shot her once and she had stabbed him seven times. All that was left before divorce

was couples counseling and they were like, you know what? That's a little too extreme for us. Let's just get a divorce. So the kids they are sent off to live with their dad and their stepmom and Dory's is out just finding another line of cocaine. Greg stepmom said her heart broke and shattered when she saw little Greg She said that he was just this little lonely lost boy that was just wanting someone to love. What's crazy is Greg stepmom was the only one that was nice to him. Both of his biological parents were pretty evil to this guy. So his stepmom really wanted to help, but she took these kids in as her own. She looked for ways to help them.

She enrolled them in school, helped them with their homework, clean their clothes. Meanwhile, Jeffrey, the dad, would just beat up the kids. He'd be like, you know what? You're breathing too loud. Go to your room, you're skipping dinner. I'm serious, like the amount of punishment that the kids got. coincided more with how drunk Jeffrey was, rather than how the kids were being.

The stepmom said, Jeffrey should have never been a father. That's like the understatement of the year, because Jeffrey was later accused of reaping his two daughters that he shared with Anita. But still, for Greg, it was better than life with his mom. And speak of the devil, she was at the door to pick the kids right back up. For some reason, the idea of a stepmom raising her kids rubbed her the wrong way. She's like, absolutely not. I'd rather my kids rot in hell than so random lady raised my kids.

Give me my fucking kids. So, an off-dourist center kids go to California. Dora's felt like California was the place, you know. It was gonna be better in California, not for the kids, but for me, because there's more parties with fancier drugs in California. Like it's not just crack and speed, there's LSD, cocaine, heroin, ooh, the good stuff. Doris was so hooked, she started exchanging sexual favors for drugs, she would be gone for weeks at a time, not sober for a single second. Sometimes she would even have these parties in her apartment, and the kids would stay up and watch the

door just revolve of people going in and out doing drugs, having sex on the dining room table. Nobody tried to hide it from the kids, nobody was like, that's a child right there in the corner guys. Should we stop cut the music? Nobody. The kids weren't going to school. They were just not being sent. Their lives sucked, but Greg was in too deep. Even though his mom deprived him of the wholesome childhood that he and every child deserves, he loved her so much. Instead, she had turned him into a criminal in the making.

Because he was small, and he was a child. People trusted him. How do you say no to a kid? How do you accuse a kid of burglarizing your home? You don't. So Doris came up with ways that Greg would help her. Wow. He said, I loved my mother.

When I was just a little guy, we would do robberies and burglaries and stuff. She used to take me to these big parties like Hollywood style and, you know, in the hills. And man, everyone would just disperse do drugs and have sex and I would pretend like I'm sick. I'd go lay down in a quiet room and when all of them were busy leaving the room because I'm sick I would sneak into all their purses and grab any jewelry drugs and money that I could find. Then I would hide it in my pants, run out to the car and put it in mom's trunk. Sometimes mom and her friends taught me how to crawl into the small open windows of houses and from there I would get to the front door, unlock it so that we could rob the place. I just wanted to do good, you

know? I wanted to impress them. So every time my mom left for weeks at a time to party, I felt like it was because I wasn't robbing people good enough. So I tried to figure out what I was doing wrong and maybe I could do it better next time because if she needed me then she wouldn't leave me or at least she would take me So I started practicing stealing and robbing even when she was gone and honestly we didn't hurt anybody We survived she had to have her drugs and we had to have food pay rent and other things. It's just the way it was This is all before Greg was 13 his mom is having him steal and burglarize people. And then at 13, she creeped him. Greg would later say, I didn't even know

I was having sex with my mom. Like, it wasn't like, oh, this is sex with your mom and that's weird. It just seemed normal. It seemed normal to me. I didn't know that nobody else was doing it. I didn't know that it was wrong. My mom said that she was just educating me

on the topic of sex. And pretty soon, she was educating him on how to shoot heroin. Needless to say, it was a horrible environment for him to grow up and just horrible, dreadful. He lived in an unclean home with no food, people constantly coming in going, many of them were unhinged, and his mom would have sex openly, do drugs openly, and he would even push those on Greg. Greg didn't have any clean clothes, no drugs openly, and he would even push those on Greg. Greg didn't have any clean clothes, no regular meals, any type of formal education.

I mean, there's no doubt that this played a big role in the downfall of Greg's teenage years. When Greg was 18, his mom just left. She got bored of California and decided to move back to Kentucky. She took Veronica, but she left without even telling Greg. He was just completely stranded and blindsided. I mean sure he's 18 but how heartless is that.

And maybe Karma works in mysterious ways because shortly after leaving with Veronica, Doris was found dead. In Kentucky, the small trailer that she moved into had mysteriously caught on fire. And Doris was the only one inside. Her body was basically cremated in the fire and there was a rumor. Quite nasty of a rumor, but a rumor. Some people suspected that Veronica had started the fire because locals said that Doris was sleeping with Veronica's 16 year old boyfriend. Now there is zero evidence to support these claims, but you know, there's that. Either way, Greg said he was broken when

he found out his mom died. I mean, he was so broken that he broke into people's houses just to stay alive. The only person in his life that was somewhat trying to help him at the time was a guy named Rick. Rick was like, hey, you can sleep on my couch. And this is the first report of Greg's really dark side. So Rick lived next to this girl named Darlene Miller. She lived with her parents. And one day, Greg was like, hey, Darlene, do you want to go grab some beer with me at the store?

Uh, sure, why not? She hops in the car, which is Rick's car, and Greg ends up stopping at this random house instead. Why are we here? Sorry, I have to go in and grab something from someone, but do you want to come in? Uh, no thanks. No, come on, it'll be awkward if you sit in the car, and it's too hot, and I've got to turn it off because gas money, okay? Come on, let's go inside. Okay, Darlene knew something was very very wrong. First of all the house, I mean from the outside, it looked fine

But when they get closer, I mean it was clearly nobody lived there. Clearly it wasn't like abandoned It wasn't boarded up and shuttered, but it definitely wasn't lived in and there was just something in his eyes that changed at the front door Darlene looked at him and asked, what's going on? And without response, he hit her on the head, pushed her deeper into the house and started beating her until she passed out. She said, when I woke up, I was tied up. My hands were tied together behind my back, like hog tied in a closet.

She had been stripped naked and locked in the closet. Darlene was sexually assaulted several times and satomized, and remembered while he was assaulting her, he would repeatedly hit her on the face, upper body, and back. He did this for three days straight. He would lock her in the closet, leave, come back, and rip her. Darlene said what was weird was in between the attacks, Greg with your start apologizing,

telling her non-stop that he was gonna let her go soon and that he was so sorry. And then he would turn around and be evil again. Darlene felt like he was lying, that he was never going to let her go. I mean, how could he? She knew who he was. She knew where he was living. So when she finally had the chance, she kicked him as hard as she could in the groin and escaped.

She ran out of the house and ran without looking back. She ends up at the front door step of one of her friends' houses and her friend was shocked. Darlene was covered everywhere, face back, chest everywhere, in bruises. She had a black eye, a swollen lip, half her face was completely swollen. Greg was eventually arrested, not for the rape or kid not being, but for burglary. And since this guy has already been in and out of prison, you would think that the prison system would be like, hey, we should take a look at this one. Like, what does he keep coming back?

No, they didn't. And Greg knew exactly how to get out. He would sit and tell the psychiatrist a sob story about how he was abused by his mom and raped by his mom. And the sad part is, is that it is true. But at this point, Greg was old enough to know right from wrong. But it worked. The psychiatrist felt bad and Greg was released on a rehab program and he did not get his life together. He went on this whole bad boy vibe, just burglarizing houses, picking up women in the bars. I just want to gag.

This is what a woman had to say about Greg. Greg was great in bed. He was a very good love maker. I mean it blew my mind away. He could go on for hours and when it was all said and done after the sex he would lean down and whisper into my ear. Now, you're pregnant. What? Yeah, he thought it was hot. The girl liked it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And he was a classic bad boy. He carried a gun, did drugs, he cursed every two words to really finish off his bad boy energy. He would get into fights with other boys just to assert his dominance. And most people thought he was a major asshole. But for some reason, some thought he was hot. I mean, he could be charming if he wanted to. Jenny was one of them. She was like, I love this guy. The two get married, and it

was the worst decision of her life. Greg was the worst husband ever. He was so possessive he would beat Jenny for the smallest inkling that she even looked at another man. He would take out a pocket knife and threaten to cut her up. Most of the time he just threatened violence, which doesn't make it any better, but sometimes he would hit her, or he would cut her. Jenny was sent to the hospital for gaping wounds on her arms and shoulder wants. But Jenny said, immediately, Greg would get kind and remorseful for his cruelty. Kind of like what he did with um with Darlene, he would bring her breakfast in bed, wash her and the shower,

be passionate with her. Which side note, that's not even being overly kind to remorseful, it's just like a regular marriage, but you get it, it's the contrast. And when things got really dark, Jenny told him that she was pregnant. And I mean, we know by now that a baby doesn't fix a marriage, right? And when things got really dark, Jenny told him that she was pregnant. And I mean, we know by now that a baby doesn't fix a marriage, right? In fact, Greg actually got really weird after her pregnancy announcement. He pinned her to the bed one night, and hissed in her ear. I am the devil I own you.

I can look into your eyes and read your mind. And then he would drag her into the shower to have shower sex. I mean, the guy was obsessed with shower sex, and this becomes important later. Jenny ended up losing a ton of weight. She lost her entire sense of self in this relationship. She spiraled to the point of self-harm. Once Greg was trying to force her to do something yet another thing that she didn't want to do. So she screamed, you're not going to make me do anything because whatever you can do to me, I can do to myself. And she plunged a pair of scissors into her thigh. I mean, she just snapped.

So this is when they're living with Jenny's parents at the time. Her dad heard the commotion, ran in, saw the scissors just protruding out of his daughter's leg, grabbed his gun, and shot at Greg, who was running full speed out of the house. Greg did get shot, but he didn't die. But if it wasn't clear, that was the end of their marriage.

In afterwards, Greg got arrested for all sorts of crimes, possession, car theft, forgery, and in prison, Greg got married yet again. Inside prison? Yeah, to a woman named Beverly. She was smitten. He was hot, handsome, muscular, and he had this tragic life story. Beverly said she cried, listening to Greg's life story.

And she felt like they had so much in common. How do they talk? Yeah, she visits prisoners for funsies. Yeah, she said they had a lot in common. She too faced felony charges of shooting someone so. They get married while Greg is in prison and I don't know if it was for funsies or to impress his newly wedded wife, but Greg started going all in with the prison tats. And a lot of women would later say that the tattoos added to his bad boy energy. They were appealing. Which I get, like I like a tattoo on a guy, but not these types.

He had a tattoo of a swastika on his chest. Why is that a theme amongst killers? Like who the hell is even doing these tattoos? He also got bearded Vikings on both of his shoulders. He had a skull on his left shoulder, portraits on his right arm, and another small random tattoo was a crawling spider with an oversized human penis. I couldn't find a picture of it. It was one of the eight legs replaced with a penis. Is it carrying a penis? Is it on a penis? Does it have a human penis?

Is it floating on top of the spider? Is it in the spider's web? I don't know but it was just a really big penis is how it's described Greg's favorite was a wolf on his side the wolf was crouched down Snarling ready to attack and that would later inspires nickname in prison the Folsom wolf Folsom because he was in Folsom County prison So yeah, yeah, I know it sounds like super fancy, but I thought I was like like a whole song. No, Folsom County. Yeah. Now that was his favorite. Mine is the fact that he got Beverly tattooed on his penis. How does that even work?

Do you tattoo it when it's a wrecked? Is it not painful? How does it heal? So he gets out of prison and he's so excited to show his wife his pain, but soon after Greg falls into old patterns, he starts getting aggressive with Beverly. He would make her do these things that he called death walks. He would grab Beverly and walk her down the street, which if you look from the outside, it looks like he has his arm around her and he's being loving.

But in fact, he was whispering evil things to her. He would walk her near the desert or the wooded areas and he would talk about how he was going to kill her, stop her. How he was carrying a knife in his pocket and she was walking to her death. He talked about how he wanted to push that knife so deep into her kidneys and twist it over and over and over again. Meanwhile, if there was passing car in neighbor, he would smile and wave. While he menacingly whispered, your bitch and you deserve to die. Meanwhile, if there was passing car in neighbor, he would smile and wave. While he menacingly whispered, your bitch and you deserve to die. Sometimes they wouldn't even go on a walk.

He would have her lay down at home, and he would grab a knife and stab the empty space between her legs. And he would scream at her, this is how I'm going to kill you. Sometimes he would jump up and grab a painting off the wall and shred it to pieces, screaming, this is going to be you, I'm going to shred you apart, I'm going to cut your face up and make you so ugly no one will want you. And after hours of this, it's like a switch would click. And he would immediately get on his knees and beg for forgiveness.

He would be crying, crying about how sorry he was, how she didn't deserve that, how he would, he would die for what he did. She should leave, she deserves better, how he's just so broken and he can't believe he did that Sometimes he would grab the loaded gun from the drawer pointed at his head begging her pull the trigger kill me I don't deserve to live just kill me please Beverly couldn't do it. So this pattern of violence and remorse becomes a regular thing in their lives So I know maybe for some people it might sound like he's unhinged Maybe he has you know, some people even speculate what if he's unhinged, maybe he has, you know,

some people even speculate what if he had like a personality disorder, but a lot of abusers do this. A lot of abusers can't handle the consequences of their violence, so immediately they try to cater to the sympathy of their victims. So they're like, oh my god, I'm such a broken man. I'm going to kill myself. I don't deserve you. And these women who have been through so much, they almost feel inclined to be like, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. So he's just manipulative. He's not, you know, he doesn't have that type of personality disorder.

But it is very interesting because Brewerley said, when he was angry, his pupils would dilate, which is pretty common. Yeah, most people just don't notice it. He would get deadly calm, and he would start mumbling to himself. Well, he's not angry? Yeah, like he was deadly calm, and then the storm would come.

So it's like this switch. You knew that he was gonna hit you or do something violent because he was calm. But eventually, the abuse became so deadly, Beverly knew that she had to leave, or else she would die. It was to the point where Beverly found him drinking late at a bar. They got into a fight.

He kicked her down a flight of stairs, ran downstairs with his steel-toed boots and kicked her in the head, ribs, and kidney. Drag her into the car and shoved her car keys up her nose until it was completely shredded and bleeding. She tried to scream, but he was punching her in the face. She managed to kick open the door and tumble out onto the road and run to safety. Greg was arrested not for the abuse, but for stealing her car.

So this time in prison, he had a cellmate. So this isn't prison, but it's jail. So they're like waiting to go to court. And there was a guy in a cell named Sam, Sam Keem. And he's telling Greg, I got arrested with my girlfriend. We were wielding our gun around driving under the influence. We had pills in our purse and shit.

Oh yeah, she's in the cell over there. She's with the girls and the jail cell with the girls, right? And later, they just hear this woman screaming like, go to the guards and Sam is smiling Greg's like what why are you smiling? He's like that's my girl Yeah, that's my girl Cindy. I might even marry her one day. Oh my gosh And she's just screaming at the guards like fuck you you fucking cunt And Greg is like

Huh? Greg is into her? That's a hot girl. So when Greg was released, he had enough information to know where to find Sam's girlfriend, and he was intent on stealing his girl. He showed up at Cindy's apartment the day after he was released, and he impressed her by fixing her car. Wait, so just find that one screen he decided to go after her?

He was like, she's hot. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Not that he needed to impress her, Cindy was already head over heels. She said he was the hottest man that she had ever seen and the fact that he had another woman's name tattooed on his penis only made him hotter.

Kidding? Are you kidding? Seriously, she's not kidding. Immediately they were doing it. Sex was Greg's forte. It was where he really sealed the deal with women. He was good at making women feel like they were the only people in the world. And while they were doing it, Greg would whisper in Cindy's ear and say sweet nothing's like, I love you. I've always loved you since we first met.

And then all of a sudden, he would dramatically say, maybe this isn't a good idea. And then he would roll over and sit on the edge of the bed. There are things that you don't know about me. You whole show. A whole show, bro. You deserve better. There are things in my past. My mom was a sex worker.

She made me steal from her clients. She shot me up with heroin when I was a kid. And no one, not even my own father cared about me And Cindy was like oh my god You're a broken man babe and I can fix you I can fix you So he's very intimate mental manipulation. Oh, yeah, cuz that's all he's doing Yeah, and that's the only thing that he's smart at because anything else that comes to the mental state of mind No good this guy has no control on his emotions. He's not really clever with crimes either just

manipulation and brute force and violence. That was it So from this point on a big chunk of the story is reconstructed from Cindy's account Which is important to note because she has a lot of reasons to lie to us Mainly because she claimed that Greg beat her and abused her so much she didn't know how to say no to him, so the whole story is framed as Greg being the dominant one and Cindy is this passive weak victim. I get that Greg was abusive I do, but I do think that Cindy is not innocent, and I don't think that we should believe her story fully.

So let's dive into it. Greg was really judging up his stories for Cindy, and it was really bizarre. They would be having shower sex, which Greg was obsessed with. And they even created these little nicknames for each other. Greg called her SIN full, like Cindy, but SIN full. And she called him Wolf, mainly because she said

he turned into a wolf when he was mad. Yeah. The wolf would slap and kick Cindy around calling her all sorts of names like slut, whore, and things like that. Sometimes he would tire up for hours and then come back and beat her up again. He would threaten to kill her. He would bring in needles filled with some random substance and threaten to shoot her up with it.

He would do this until he was satisfied, and then he would snap back into reality, and then he was so remorseful. He was so sorry. Cindy said it got to the point where she felt like if she loved him a little bit better or if she was a little bit nicer to him he wouldn't be so violent. She blamed herself. Have you ever been to Kentucky though? My dad's been. He said it's... He said it's a state for sure. It's a state of mind, okay?

So Cindy was excited to go with Greg. This was our first time in Kentucky with Greg, and he got her excited. He's like, all those parties, all the sex we're gonna have, the drugs, it's fucking heaven. At this point, they were going through wild parties in Kentucky. Greg is getting drunk. He starts talking to my friend, and he's like, hey Cindy, this is my friend Killer.

This is my girl Cindy. Killer? Yeah, anyway, Killer was just telling me about how he got hired to do a hit on someone, named Greg, Greg Hill, not to be confused with me, Greg the Wolf. Anyway, Greg Hill needs to die, but Killer is not in the mood to kill. So he's telling me he's gonna give us $5,000 to do it. What do you think, babe? He even gave me a pistol to do it.

So the next morning, they go and kill this man. Did he hit? Yeah, they would never be charged for the murder, but they shot him dead. Now, this was their first kill together, and all for what? $5,000 to do what with, to spend on a new Harley Davidson. Yeah, that's what they blew their blood money on, a blood-red motorcycle that they named Big Red. Greg was so happy he felt like it was a good omen. He felt like this was his moment. So he proposed to Cindy on the spot, and then he was married for the fourth time.

They called it a biker wedding. Nothing too serious or formal. Cindy didn't even wear a white dress. She wore a blue sleeveless summer dress. Yeah, ring a bell. Clearly their marriage was not going well, because Greg actually got more abusive after the wedding, beating Cindy at every chance that he got, or so Cindy claimed.

She said that he beat her on the head non-stop, made her sit there while he worked on his bike in the whole time he would sit there and call her useless names like you're fucking useless, you're stupid, you're ugly. He would power trip and make sure she wasn't allowed to use the restroom without his permission, so she was forced to relieve herself in a cup. A lot of this was hard for the police to believe so they asked her. I mean it never occurred to you to leave him especially because you have a gun in your purse at all times and you always have your purse on you. She said at this point I was more afraid than ever because I just saw him kill a man. He told me that he had sent the names and addresses of my son

and my family to his friends and if I ever leave him or anything, he would have them all killed. They're like, you believed that? She was like, yes, because one time, he beat me so hard that I had to go to the hospital. But if I went to the hospital alone, the hospital would know that I was abused. So he got on his motorcycle and crashed it

so that he would have scratches everywhere. He grabbed my hand, marched me straight into the hospital and said, doctor, we were both on my bike and I crashed it. Help us. The doctor believed the story. Another time they were hanging out with Greg's friends, and Cindy had to eat in something really spicy, and she had this intense pain in her stomach, and she went, oh, and Greg dragged out of the house and beat her up for moaning in front of his friends trying to seduce them. So without big red anymore, the two bought a Cadillac and started going from state to state.

Elena George just seemed to be the best state for them. Greg managed to work four full days without quitting his job. That was the longest he'd ever gone. But then he quit, and this rage would build up, and he grabbed Cindy drag her by the hair into the car and started punching her until there was blood all over the leather seats He drove her back to the hotel grabbed a pair of scissors got down I level with her Cindy said he was the wolf and he said What do you want to lose? Your eye or your hair?

What neither? You got to make a choice Don't take my eye He smiled slammed her down onto the chair and cut off all her hair as close as possible with the scissors. So it wasn't a buzz cut because it's not like a razor or a shaver, but just chopped as close to her head as possible. He would say things like, now I'm just going to take an eye.

Come on, it's not going to hurt. I know what I'm doing. I'll just poke it out and you won't even feel it. It'll just bleed just a little. When that's stopped being fun, Greg stripped her out, threw her out, saw naked out of their motel door. I mean, she's naked on the second floor of the motel. Everyone in the parking lot, the second floor of the first floor, everyone driving or walking past could see her completely naked. She was vulnerable and in not a good area. He threw out and she's screaming, banging

on the doors. And finally, he let her in, threw on the bed, grabbed the vaseline, and violently sodomized her. And just like that, they left Atlanta. Cindy said she hated her baldness so much, she constantly wore a hat to cover it up. But back in Kentucky, Greg just found more ways to humiliate Cindy. He tattooed on her left butt cheek,

property of Folsom Wolf. Then he tattooed wolf on her ring finger with two lightning bolts near the word and she's like what are the lightning bolts for? He said, those are the symbols of white supremacy. He also accused Cindy of learning with his friends, particularly remember that guy named Paul, oh, an Edminton Paul, but that's the one that she moaned in front of and he was really upset. One time Cindy had a headache, Greg went to grab some ass-brand, came back with four white pills and she took it and he goes, oh, you dumb bitch, that's cyanide. You're gonna die now. And when you die, I'm gonna take off all your clothes and I'm gonna leave you in the corner for the

insert Rachel Slur. They can have you. Get in the bathroom. He put a knife up to her leg and started to burn cigarettes all over her and demanded to know if she quote, fucked Paul. And it sounds like a lot is happening right now and it was a lot but they never worked so they continued to rob and burglarize homes for money or they would just mow chaff of friends for food shelter and drugs including Greg's sister Veronica. They lived for a while with Veronica before her husband put his foot down and was like, Veronica, your brother, and his wife or whatever need to get lost. And Veronica was like, if they leave so do I.

So she left with Greg. What? It's weird. So weird. So they're back in California. No money, no shelter, nothing. Desperate for drugs. And in the parking lot of a mall They spot Karina and Greg tell Cindy. That's the one

Cindy instantly felt jealous because Karina was young woman with long brown hair and a sleek bun and she was very pretty She tried to dissuade him like she's just a kid. She's not gonna have any money. Oh, yes, she will Look that car. It's new when she gets out the mall you go ask her for a ride So when Karina got out the mall, they were waiting for her. Walking back to her car, just before getting in, Cindy comes up. Now some sources claim that Karina offered to give Cindy and Greg a ride. However, her mom, Karina's mom, vehemently denies this. Her daughter would never do such a thing.

I mean, I'm inclined to believe the mom. Now the three of them end up in Karina's car and Karina finds herself with Greg's gun jammed into her ribs. So she gets, she's put on Greg's lap in the passenger seat and Cindy starts driving the car all the way straight to this random rundown apartment building and they drag her out nobody's around. They push her into unit 106 and there's a dude named Rich who's high out of his mind standing barefoot.

This is his apartment. And Karina didn't know what to do. She's trying to be smart with it. She's not trying to scream bloody murder because nobody can even hear her. So she's like, hi. And Rick is like, hi. He didn't even bother to ask Karina her name or why they were here or why she looked like she was about to cry and being held hostage by these two because they're grabbing on to

her really hard. He just grabbed another beer and starts mindlessly watching more TV. And just to give you an idea, this living room was this dusty old room. There was grime everywhere, empty beer cans, crusty cigarettes, like just pools of ash and water everywhere. Gregons and D. Leade came to the bedroom and they order her to sit on the bed. They handcuff her and they start demanding to know her debit card password. And what's interesting is Greg had never had a bank account. So he explains it as, we're trying to get her bank card number. You know, the secret number you got to make so the money comes out of the machines at the bank.

The Pancal, right? Yeah. But he never had an account so he didn't know how the ATM worked. So he's like this secret number you put in and the money comes out the machine. So Rick knew what they were doing, that they were trying to get her bank card number. And when Greg goes back into the bathroom, he's in the bedroom. He's there a long time. So Rick decided he was going to get a sneak peek of what they're doing in his bedroom

And when he opened the door he said he just knew he shouldn't dig around more like the look on Cindy and Greg's faces While they were talking to Karina who's sitting on the bed. They just had this dark look in their eyes So you went back to watching TV Cindy would say we got her bank card number and we all took a shower because we were dirty and that was that Cindy said I don't know what happened in the shower because I shower separately. Now Greg would say, Cindy dragged Karina in the shower and was begging Greg to rape Karina because she liked to watch him rape people. But we know both stories are alike.

We do know that they showered and Karina was in the shower at one point, but there was a lot of compelling evidence to show that she was sawdemized violently. When they were done, they put her back in the car, and they head out. They find a quiet area, park the car. Cindy claims she didn't see any of this, but there was a shallow grave. Karina was thrown in and strangled with a necktie.

Her face was shoved so deep into the sandy soil with so much force that her mouth was packed with dirt. The reason I don't believe Cindy is because a lot of experts say that I would take more than one person to commit a murder like this. And afterwards they drove in silence to an ATM, hoping that these four digits that they got would separate them in their newfound fortune. And when they clicked it in the message set on the screen, wrong pin. They were pissed. So they used Corinna's ID to find out her apartment. Break in, ransack the whole place looking

for Corinna's potential pin. And when they find it, they drive to the bank, and they realize Corinna only had $15. And the minimum withdrawal balance at the bank was $20, or at the ATM. So after all of that, the deadbeat duo, which is Walk Away, empty-handed, then they drove to the affluent neighborhood

of Laguna Beach and just slept on the beach, right there on the sand. They woke up the next day hungry, so they're using Karina's name on checks, like forging checks with Karina's name and using it to buy Taco Bell and KFC. And then they're like, we're gonna kill another woman. So they keep following this woman in a Corvette,

but she was too fast. They can keep up in Karina's car. And then they're like, wait, we're like driving really recklessly trying to chase after this woman in the Corvette. We are in a stolen car. So here's what we got to do. This is Greg's big idea. He was going to put all of Corinna's ID and stuff that they weren't going to use, all of her possessions, like her registration entitled to the car. They were going to put it into a Taco Bell bag and throw it away inside of a KFC dumpster. Then they were going to take their IDs, their own IDs, put it into a Taco Bell bag and throw it behind the Taco Bell dumpster. So you're like, why the hell are you getting rid of your own IDs? He thought, if I get pulled over with a stolen car and I don't have

an ID, the police can't arrest me because I don't know who I am. Yeah. Because when has a police officer ever been like, oh my God, just make sure you have your ID next time. Yeah. Maybe he's thinking like the police couldn't prove who he is. Yeah. But it was just weird because the way that he threw them away right across it.

And the KFC and the Taco Bell are right across the street from each other. This is important later. So, okay. one day KFC dude finds the bag of IDs of Karina's IDs in the KFC dumpster in a Taco Bell bag and he calls Taco Bell across the street and is like, hey, I think one of your customers or your employees accidentally put their ID in their bag and like, through it outside. It's behind our dumpster. So they bring it to Taco Bell and Taco Bell is like, wait a minute, I think

we have like a check from this girl that they bought food yesterdayster. So they bring it to Taco Bell and Taco Bell is like, wait a minute, I think we have a check from this girl that they bought food yesterday. And then they bring up the check and they're like, well if our IDs are disposed of, this feels like some sort of credit card fraud or some sort of check fraud. So they call the police. They check their dumpsters and they find Greg and Cindy's IDs in their dumpster. So they're like, huh, the two, the IDs and the dumpsters, they should be connected, right? Unfortunately, they would have time to kill one more victim before the police caught onto them.

They couldn't find anyone to rob, so they went to a dry cleaner that was about to close, and they saw that only a 19-year-old girl named Lynelle Morey was working. So they felt like it was easy. She would give up the money in a heartbeat, and maybe he could sodenize her. The saddest part is, Manela had so much going for her, like so much life to live, just like Karina and even Greg Hill. Lennel grew up in California and Japan. Her dad was part of the Air Force. Her parents were now divorced, but they lived in Laguna Beach. They were really good at co-parenting, and everything was going well. She was just this successful, kind, good, natured person who got along with everyone. Lynelle found it a pure counseling center at her school so that any students in her school

that were facing big problems would come to talk to her. And she would help them. She started it with her boyfriend Rob and Rob was actually waiting for her to get off her shift so that they could go on their date night. Lynelle was even dressed up nicely because she wouldn't have time to go home and change. She wanted to look cute. I mean, it's terrifying to think that Lennel was eagerly waiting for her shift to be over and so were her killers.

So right before closing, Greg and Cindy slip in posing as customers. They pull out a gun, force Lennel to flip the open sign to closed. Turn off all the lights, they rob the cash register, and demand Lennelle get a change of clothes for them. So they just steal a random customer's clothes. They push Lanelle through the back entrance and shove her into Carina's car and they duct tape her mouth and handcuff her. They rent a hotel room, like a motel room, and meanwhile Rob is outside waiting for his girlfriend and feeling very angsty. He looks at the dry cleaner, it's closed, it looks deserted, there's no way she would have gone, she was waiting for him to pick

her up, she didn't even drive here, so immediately they contacted the police. Meanwhile, the couple are dragging a handcuff Lennel into their motel room, and Cindy claimed that she left Greg alone with Lennel while she was getting money from Lennel's bank accounts, which they got about like $200, but I don't know if I believe that. I feel like she did partake in a lot of the torture, too, later. When Cindy got back, she said that she noticed that Lynnell's hair was wet and that told her all she needed to know because Greg was obsessed with shower sex. Now at this point, I feel like Cindy could have left.

When she left to go get money at the bank, which she did go alone, she could have saved Lynnell's life, she could have led the police to the motel, she could have used her gut, something. Like I get it, abusive relationships can put mental chains on people, but this is different. Like we're talking about innocent lives that you're actively partaking and ending. When they were done eating McDonald's and he said, Greg wanted to kill Linael together. So they strangled her with a towel, filled the tub with water, and staged her body in the strangest way. Like, they staged it to look like a brutal murder, which it was. But I don't think they were trying to make it look like a suicide. So, Lynelle's body, like her head, was in the bathtub where it was filled with water.

But the rest of her body was like hanging off the toilet almost. Like, a leg was propped up on the toilet and the rest of her body was suspending on the floor. Greg urinated on her, her clothes were all torn apart. There was bru the rest of her body was suspending on the floor. Greg urinated on her, her clothes were all torn apart, it was bruising all over her body. I mean, I don't get it, I don't get it at all. So they leave her like this, drive a few hours to Big Bear California, which this is like in November, so it's cold. It's, you know, and at a local denny's, they have the most lavish meal that they've had in a while. Stake and Shrimp, $23 for the meal, and Cindy generously added a $10 tip all on the Nell's credit card.

Then they bought $200 worth of meth using her cash, the money that she got from the ATM. And with her credit card, with the Nell's credit card, and I'm just so confused, they bought $80 on glasses and big bear. They bought bathing suits because the motel that they were at had a hot tub. They bought scarves and hats using Linnell's credit card. And they stood there while the store employee was like, I got to call the bank to clear the charges. And the bank authorized it. Yeah. So they're just racking up charges on Linnell's credit card thinking that it would never come back to them. And the police were very quick to find out that Cindy and Greg were in Big Bear because of the credit card transactions.

And from there, it was so easy to find them. They didn't have clothes or shelter because they ran out of cash. They spent it all on drugs. And they were selling clothes too. Like, they would sell whatever they had. So Cindy was wearing her bikini with a sweater over it. That's it. Like, no pants. Just a longer sweater over it.

Greg was wearing swim trunks with a dress shirt that was stolen from the cleaners with boots. And the temperature is like 40 degrees in big bear. So nobody's dressing like that in November in Big Bear California. So at this point, they don't care anymore. Is that what it is? They're not even trying to.

They're so ballsy and I don't know if the drugs made their brains mush. I got it, yeah, that makes sense. So exactly a week after Karina was abducted, the police swarmed the area and arrest Cindy and Greg. Now, as soon as Cindy was arrested, she starts playing the abused woman. Card, I didn't mean to kill people. Now, don't get me wrong. Greg is evil. He's a violent abuser and a killer, but it's hard for me to believe that Cindy is innocent.

That she's just this kind-hearted woman that was also a victim. I mean, the situation with everything we know just does not sound like that. I can't help but feel like Cindy's trying to abuse our sympathy, and honestly she's making it harder for real victims of domestic violence and abuse. Cindy was cooperative with the police, probably because she felt like she would get off easier. She led the police to Karina's body and the trash bin where Greg disposed of other evidence, which sign note, they turned on each other, but they still wrote letters for each other in prison. Greg would sign as letters, forever your daddy, Greg. Cindy would sign it, you're loving

100% true honest devoted wife, and she only addressed Greg as my love and my lord. Yeah. They were both sentenced to death, And they eventually broke up. And Cindy was looking for ways to cover her property of the Folsom with but tattoo. Neither Cindy nor Greg were ever executed. Today at 60 years old Cindy is the longest serving woman on death row in California. Wow. And it's important to note that Greg and Cindy are speculated to have been involved in two more murders. The death of the 32-year-old Sandra and 35-year-old Pamela Simmons. Now, they both went missing in California,

they both had money drawn out from their ATMs. So very similar IMO, but there was no evidence tying them to the cases. But it is widely speculated. And that's the story of the wolf. Listen, wolves are magical creatures. I think they're like, out of a lot of animals,

they have such a unique way of operating in the wild. Like the fact that they run in packs, I think that they're beautiful. I think they have all of these things that we can admire in these wild animals. I don't think he's a wolf. I think he's just a vile monster. I don't know why he keeps trying to relate to a wolf and talk like he's a wolf.

He's not. This is very much giving me alpha male podcaster who thinks he's a lion or a wolf. He's just disgusting. And that's the story of Gregon Cindy. What are your thoughts on this case? And please stay safe out there, and I'll see you guys on Sunday for the mini-sode. Bye!