Rotten Mango - #218: He Made a DEAL WITH THE DEVIL - Sacrificed 80+ Children For Money & Power (Serial Killer Gilles De Rais)

Episode Date: December 4, 2022

There are a few things you should do before moving out of your house. Most people will make a short to-do list of sorts. Turn off the power, check all the closets for valuables, things like that. But even then you will always leave some part of yourself behind… maybe it’s a piece of mail, your welcome mat, or maybe even your scent. It’s inevitable. Understandable. You probably wouldn’t expect to find dead bodies though. The headless bodies of two young boys. They weren’t hidden in the chimney, or buried in the backyard, they were slumped over in a room in plain sight. You couldn’t help but wonder. What the hell was the previous owner doing? What happened? And where are the heads? Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Betta Bing Betta Boo Welcome to this week's mini-sode of rotten mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. And there are probably a few things that you should do before moving out of your house. I mean, most people make a to-do list of sorts. Don't forget to turn off the power in your name. What if the new owners don't switch it to their name and you're there, footing the bill?

Don't forget to check all the closets. Make sure you didn't leave behind any sentimentals and valuables. Oh, forward your mail and don't forget your husband. Well, maybe you should. Leave him in the house. These are pretty standard things, but even then, I'm sure as someone who moves into a new place, you still see remnants of the former owner, maybe a piece of male left behind. Maybe they forgot to take their welcome mat.

Maybe it's their scent. I get it, you know? But you probably wouldn't expect to move in and stumble into one of the rooms and find two haggless bodies of young boys. They weren't hidden in the chimney, they weren't hidden in the walls or the backyard, they were sitting right there, slumped over in the room. And you couldn't help but wonder what the hell was the previous owner doing, what happened, but also where are the heads? As always, full share notes are available at

ronmangopodcast.com. There's a lot of interesting sources for this case, so please go check those out. And with that being said, let's get into it. The ritual was to take place in his garden behind his massive estate in France. It was a rather cold, dark night. The moon seemed to be absent from the proceedings. There was not much light being provided. from the proceedings. There was not much light being provided. Jill went through everything he needed. Giant circle drawn into the soil. Check. Satanic symbols and crosses laid out around the ground. Check. His book said he would rip pages from while he practiced summoning the devil. Check. Oh, and his most important leather bound book with a metal lock on it. Check.

Now, this book was very special to him. A lot of people would later say he had written down all the names of his victims on there. He would take each victim's blood, write down their names, smear the blood onto the pages. Maybe he did. Jill took out a pair of eyes.

He had taken them from a child not too long ago. Oh, and the child's heads and hands to go along The beautiful head that was something that he would never forget the look on the child's face when he was Decapitated Jill always remembered special moments in his life. You know moments like that. They were just unforgettable Jill stood outside with Francis waiting for him to start the ritual and in his pocket Jill had his note, his note for the devil.

His contract to sell his soul to the devil, which begs the question, why is it that the devil is obsessed with children's sacrifices? Why are they always in the same story all the fricking time? Does the devil just really want to take our children? Maybe. Or maybe Jill was willing to do anything for a deal with Satan himself. Because little boys started vanishing from that town at alarming rates. It got so bad that the town had a very bad reputation. It was said don't move there, don't travel there, don't even visit

that town with young kids. Because there is a monster in the woods or somebody out there, you know, it's almost like this urban legend. There is someone that eats children in that town. But what if it's not an urban legend? It was just the type of thing that Jill Derai would have been into. Which interestingly enough, Jill has often said to have been the inspiration behind the famous French urban legend French lore called Bluebird. Have you heard of it? Okay, so it's a creepy one.

The story is about a famous French wealthy, powerful, noble man who just can't seem to keep a wife. Well, can't keep her alive, that is. They all died. Back to back, like all six of them. They were the most beautiful, healthy, well taken care of. They were very good women, but marrying him was almost like a curse. So by his seventh marriage everyone's like, mm-hmm. Bluebeard is weird.

Like we get it, he's rich, and he has like this giant castle. Bluebeard. Bluebeard. So by his seventh marriage, you know, he's having trouble finding a wife. Everyone's like, we don't care bluebeard that you're rich and loaded, and you have a castle filled with servants. I'm not going to marry you because I don't want to end up dead. I mean, I get it, okay?

It was a different time back then before a medical intervention and life-saving treatments. Sure, maybe like one or two of his wives died. That's a tragedy. That's a broken man that needs to be nurtured back into love. But all six wives, let's be real.

Something's not fishy. He was so desperate, he starts asking around to his neighbors to see, hey hey do you have any daughters? Maybe I could marry one of them you know the rest of your family would be set for life because I'm super loaded. I mean really considering as well as influential status and any other case people would have been

throwing their daughters their own wives themselves at this man but now nobody wanted to marry him. Until his neighbor's youngest daughter decides I I'm gonna do this from my family. This is like the only way up, this socioeconomic ladder. So she marries the crusty old beard. She settles into this huge palace in the countryside, away from her family, isolated from everything and everyone, and at first, she's so tense. All the time she's just waiting,

waiting to be poisoned, waiting to be bumped on the head with I don't know like a a glass hammer. Her body is full of anxiety she feels like she's living with a killer a murder. I mean she's always on her feet never letting her guard down she's not even sleeping. She's got bags under her eyes but after a while he's showering her with love, affection, gifts, attention, and she falls in love with the dude. And she's like, you know what? That's actually a disgusting neighborhood rumor, and I'm actually very upset with these neighborhood people talking about Bluebeard like this. He's just a misunderstood person. He would never even hurt a fly. In fact, he's a great husband. But one day he goes away for business, and she so sad and he hands her a key It's the master key to all the rooms in the palace Imagine your husband is so rich that there are rooms in the house that you haven't even been inside yet

And he tells her that she can go into any room that she wants with this key except except for the underground chamber And then he leaves and just dangles the curiosity in front of her She probably wouldn't have even gone down there if he didn't bring it up. But now, now she gotta go down there, okay? You know how the story goes. She can't contain her curiosity. So one night she sneaks off, uses the master key to unlock the secret chamber.

The door squeaks open. And she's hit with this. Ooh, it's a pungent smell. She pushes the door open all the way. Light is flooding in on the inside now and there is a red room covered from top to bottom in blood. There are the murdered corpses of all of Bluebeard's six previous wives hanging on hooks. Their necks are grotesquely stretched out because they've been hung for so long.

Horrified, she drops the key, runs out. Which, she doesn't run very fast, by the way, because, you know, they had to wear these giant puffy dresses back in the day, so she's pretty much tripping out of there. When she gets to the top of the stairs, she's like, oh my god, I forgot the frickin' key. So she rushes back down, gets the key, it's covered in blood, it won't wash off, no matter how hard she tries. And timing's a bitch, because at the same exact time Bluebeard is like Hey, my work trip got cut short. I'm back home babes. He finds the bloody key He's like, okay, well now I got to kill you too for finding it out

But she convinces him she's like babe. I love you so much Please just let me pray one more time with my family So he's like fine. I will let your family come over and pray with you and then once I leave I'm bonking you on the head and you're dead Her brother and sister arrive and they kill Bluebeard they kill him and the wife inherits his fortune in castle And he has his six previous wives buried she uses the massive fortune to make sure her siblings can get remarried She remarries herself before moving on. So what is the moral of this story? Kill your husband before it's too late. I'm just kidding I really don't know what the moral of this story you know how like old and they folklore they have a moral of this story. Kill your husband before it's too late. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I really don't know what the moral of this story. You know how like

Olden Day folklore, they have a moral of the story. I don't know what the moral of this story is. But it's said that the tale of Bluebeard was inspired by Guilder Ray. And maybe it has something to do with the hooks. The hooks always hook people into this story. Gill was known to hang his victims on hooks until their necks were so stretched that they couldn't even scream. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Yo, wait, who the hell is this guy? Did he kill his wives? What's going on? Well, Gill Dere is often considered the first most infamous serial killer to ever exist. And unlike a lot of serial killers that we talk about, this guy was one of the richest

men in France. Honestly, he gives me OG Jeffrey Epstein vibes, rich and creepily obsessed with children, allegedly. So let's start with his old money parents. And you're like, how old? I'm talking 1400s old. Yeah, were you alive back then? I feel like you were born.

I'm just kidding. So let's start with his old money parents. Okay, his dad is named Guy, so he was like a super rich guy. Well even that is quite the strange story. During the time there was this old Eris who was dying. She's like on her last breath. She was the last descendant of the house of Rai and she had no kids of her own. So the later part of her life she was super busy just trying to figure out who her money was going to.

Great problem. She thought maybe all adopt child and they can inherit my wealth and continue on the, you know, deri household name. And Guy de la Valle, Jill's dad was a good option. They were somewhat related family wise. He was close to getting adopted by her. But last minute, she pulls out and tells everyone

that she would be donating her entire wealth to a distant relative, the Kharan family. Now, the Kharan's were the most powerful house in this region of France. The only family that was more prominent and wealthier than this house was literally the French royal family. So they're already rich?

Yeah. So she's donating money, just giving it the French royal family. So they're already rich. Yeah. So she's donating money, just giving it to another rich family. Yeah. I don't know why she gave them the money when they were already so rich. I have no idea. Yeah. But that's what she chose to do. Guy Delaval was pretty pissed.

He had been expecting to get super, super rich. He felt like he had been offered it and it was taken away. So technically, it was out to him. But she was already dead and her money was already passed on to this massive house. So what does he do? He marries the granddaughter of the crayons, okay? That's what he does. He marries the granddaughter Marie and the two of them go on to give birth to Jill, DeRay and his little brother Renee. They all lived in this big estate with Marie's parents, and her dad was the most important

figure in the house. His name is Jean. Jean was… Jean was intense. He really wasn't like the fun-loving wholesome grandpa that you want to have. He was more of a ruthless businessman that would squash any opponent like a fly, and he would blackmail political opponents to get what he wanted, type of grandpa. You know some grandpa's?

They'll sit you down on their lap and teach you valuable life lessons like, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Well, Jean was the type to sit you down on his lap and tell you that the cost of honey was super inflated. So what you have to do is kidnap the daughter of the massive honey farm, force her into marriage with one of your children

and you will forever get free fucking honey. More realistic. Yeah, it's a little... More practical. And anyone that tells you otherwise is a god damn fool who will spend their life savings on honey. That's drawn. So, great grandpa.

Anyway, it's not like Jill saw most of his grandpa anyway in his earlier life. Jill and his brother were raised the noble way, like all the noble men. Actually, probably a million times better because these two, they barely saw their parental figures. They were surrounded by servants, whose financial and literal lives, livelihood, I mean, life or death, not just finances, depended on making sure that these temperamental, little emotional children

didn't wrath them out for not giving them what they wanted. What is child discipline? They wouldn't have no idea. Another thing to notice at back then, the best way to raise a child, the noble slot, was to treat them like little adults that threw daily temper tantrums. So there was no physical emotional love and nurturing. So Jill, from the moment that he took his first breath, was entitled, he was spoiled, he could have any food, toys, horses, ponies, listen, I don't know what he wanted, but he

could have it. Later Jill was say, I think that's why I was a serial killer. He didn't say it like that, but he was like, I really think it's my parents fault that I turned out the way that I did. If I hadn't been so spoiled, maybe I wouldn't have killed so many people. So that's really reassuring and great. Listen, the fact of the matter is, Jill never really got to know his parents. In fact, both of his parents died when he was relatively young, like I'm talking 11

years old. Jill's dad passed away in a wild boar accident. Okay, it's as bizarre as it sounds. Guys like, I wanna go hunting, guys. Grab your, I don't know, bow and arrows, grab your swords, let wanna go hunting guys grab your I don't know bow and arrows grab your swords Let's go hunting which both of his sons were there. They're like 10 and they're like let's go hunting And it's just made for a more traumatic experience So they're all out hunting and the dad is like let me kill this boy

You guys see that wild boar over there, which like what's a boar, right? It's a giant feral pig, it's a hog, but a million times scarier, they're really scary, okay? Think like a bear, but a pig. And very hostile, they're not nice, they're really scary, so he's thinking I'm gonna kill this big, we shall feast on bacon tonight. But before he could kill it, the boar turned and charged at him, fatally wounding him. His sons were able to drag him back to the castle, but there's no remedy for a wild boar attack. So he laid in bed for, we don't know, days, weeks, potentially months, what we do know

is that he died a super slow, painful death. There weren't even pain meds to take him out of the pain and make him a bit loopy. Back then you just got drunk. So he felt every bit of agony and his kids were there to see him go through all of that, and then soon after their mom died. And it's not really specified how she died, but either way both parents gone finito. So what now? I guess like a lot of serial killers, that's a lot of trauma to go through at a young

age. But even then, Jill showed a lot of promise at a young age. By the time that he was seven, he learned to read Latin and Greek, he studied classical arts and humanitarian studies, he even learned the ways of war and military arts at like 10 years old. He was like, well, you know, you had to do a lot because you died like 40. So this is like a fourth of your life right there. What have you learned? You know what you had to do a lot because you died like 40. So this is like a fourth of your life right there. What have you learned? You know what I mean?

He was a super quick learner. I will give him that. But he did seem really gifted, especially when it came to war. He loved everything about war. He was like, I love combat training. I love military training. I love the idea of fighting for a cause. And I don't know, killing people.

He just like really liked to fuck shit up. He liked violence. That's what I'm trying to get at. Anyways, both of his parents had left like a will in last testament. Their wish was that their kids be raised by one of their cousins, and the two priests that the boys had been tutored for like most of their lives. Their parents wanted them to continue to learn more French, Latin, theology, law, everything, even horseback riding. The boys, Jill and Renee,

they needed to be well-rounded in order to be great rich nobleman. Say no, Jill hated the tutors, he even kidnapped one of them and imprisoned them because he was sick of their shit. It's a very different time back when kidnapping was very normalized, yeah. Like, locking someone in a tower was a casual Tuesday. Do you think that's just what humans want to do? Have we just become so civilized? I like it. Obviously, abduction is bad, but why did people do it so often back then? It was so common. Really? Yeah, so common. They're like, oh, where have you been? I've been seeing you in the past week. I was kidnapped again. I'm back now, though, yeah. It's weird.

So they even wrote in the will, a strict clause, that the grandfather that they live in the castle with, Jean de crayon, should have no part, no part at all in their upbringing whatsoever. Why? He was like crazy. They're like, our kids are not gonna be sophisticated if they're raised by Jean.

They're gonna turn into barbarians Yeah, well what do you know the main caretaker in charge the cousin? He dies I don't know probably a plague. Okay, he dies and now the courts are like these children have nobody there or fans Give them to their grandfather. So against the parents explicit wishes that the children not be raised by grandpa Jean That's where they're gonna be raised. Look not to be rude or speak ill of the dead But there was a reason that the parents not be raised by grandpa Jean, that's where they're gonna be raised. Look, not to be rude, or speak ill of the dead. But there was a reason that the parents didn't like Jean. Jean was one of the most powerful men in all of France, but he did not achieve that status by playing fair, or by even being nice.

Jean's entire life goal was advancing his generational wealth and affluence in everything that he did. It was ultimately for the betterment of his name and his wallet. That is literally all he cared about. No amount of land, castle's power, money was going to satisfy John, he had a thirst, a lust for success and he played dirty to get it. Like his favorite hobby was manipulating people. And when that didn't work, he would just abduct them. He would kidnap them for

ransom or political power, and he starts teaching all these valuable skills to Jill and Renee for shits and giggles. For setting an example, Jean had his grandchildren kidnap a noble woman and scare her by threatening to sow her body into a sack of potatoes and to throw her into the river. And he's like, that's how you do it. Basically, all grandpa taught them was act first, negotiate later, kidnap first, negotiate man some later, charge into battle, make up a strategy on the spot.

Yeah, they were all super impulsive, considering how much they claimed to like manipulating people, it was weird. So they were never really smart with it. They just like force, blackmail, brute, strength, and torture to get what they wanted. It speculated that Jill might have practiced his torture in kidnapping tactics, first on animals, and then on servants.

And later upgraded. So speculation. The only thing that mattered to Jean though was power and he really utilized a young Jill to get it. First order of business, grandpa tried marrying off 12-year-old Jill. He's 12 and he's like you're gonna marry One of the richest eras's in all of Normandy. You're like that's crazy He's 12. Well, what's even crazier is that the eras was only four freaking years old

Wow, I mean truly the man cared about nothing but money the marriage arrangement almost happened only To be stopped by the official Parliament of Paris. Yes, the Parliament of Paris stepped in and told them, hey, cut it out. And before you're like, wow, justice restored. I love humanity. We're great after all. Way to go, Parliament? No. They didn't want the marriage to happen, not because the kids were too young, but because combining the two houses would make them too powerful and actually more powerful than the royal family. So they were like, we can't have that. That's why they weren't allowed to get married.

But Jean was undeturbed. Then he attempted to arrange a marriage between Jill and Beatrice, the niece of the Duke of Brittany, which was a super important, like, region in France. It was the main reason that France and England were fighting each other. They both wanted control over Brittany. So marrying the areas of the Duke of Brittany, I mean it would have been very lucrative for our boy Jean, Grandpa Jean. But for some reason the marriage falls through and Grandpa is getting sick of this shit.

What is wrong with people not pimping out their grandkids so easily. The third time Jean didn't want, sit around waiting for rejection. He decided, in his mind, that 15-year-old Jill was gonna marry Catherine of Brittany, another famous family in Brittany, right? Every prominent ares. And to ensure that the marriage would go through, he instructed his grandson, the future groom, to kidnapper.

Straight up, kidnapped Catherine, and he did, 15-year-old Jill rode to Catherine's castle and he kidnapped her. Catherine's family was obviously super pissed about it, but again, they didn't really flip shit because it was super common back then. To kidnapped noble daughters of families, and once they'd been taken, you know, there was the whole, we don't really care about the charm of- but they would lose their virtue and never be able to marry another noble man, so we're just gonna love being married. So they would be forced into marriage and to add insult to injury Catherine really hated being abducted by her cousin

They were cousins Yeah, they were somewhat related. Okay. She was pretty pissed. She hated him. Listen marriage is very delicate It certainly doesn't get a good kickoff when it starts with a kidnapping. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, Or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. What you watch depends on what kind of majoring. Sometimes your craving comedies like friends

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Subscription required. Visit max.com. separate lives and they only had one child nine years into the marriage. They were barely having sex. I mean, they really did not care for one another. I don't even know why Jean thought it was so adamant about them getting married. It didn't even seem like much came out of the marriage, but just trauma to Catherine and her family. But it didn't matter, as long as Jill was happy. And seriously, Jean the grandpa was obsessed with his grandson, Jill. To the point where Jill and his brother Renee were torn apart, you know, they never really

had a great brother sibling relationship because their grandfather was always pinning them against each other. It said that Jill had the potential. I mean, sure, he was spoiled and entitled, but he had the potential to take his family's name and land and greatness, but after being taken under his grandpa's wing, he was just a temperamental, crazy little boy. And since his grandpa was the second wealthiest man in the entire kingdom, second only to the king himself, Jill starts to learn that he can get away with anything, because while

he was like too big to fail, you know? Now, this is a part where we do have to talk about history, but I'm going to try to make it as palatable as possible, I swear. And only because it matters to the story. Because she'll did a lot historically, even if he wasn't allegedly the first notable serial killer in France, as they say, he probably would have been in the history books. He had a very big impact on French history. So let's try to keep it brief.

France and England, which wasn't the UK quite yet, so they were just England. France and England, they hated each other's guts, despised each other, mainly because they wanted to out-colonize each other. If they just took a step back and realized, hey we're both colonizers and we actually have a lot in common. Maybe they could have been friends, you know, but the competition was just a bit too much for them They were fighting over territories going at it. I mean they were non-stop arguing the English were like this territory belongs to us And the French were like over our dead bodies All right, is that a dare? Is that a challenge than you shall die? Okay, it was a war yet no really it really did spiral into a war that lasted 100 years Five generations of two opposing royal families and it was creatively called can you guess that?

The hundred years war. Yeah, okay, so it wasn't like a single war It was a series of armed conflicts between England and France, but anyway It also got a lot more confusing because there was this guy named William the Conqueror. That was on his birth certificate. I'm kidding, but William was born in France. He ended up becoming an English king, and people were grabbing their hair by the fistfuls. Like, are you fucking French or English? We don't know what to do. Why are you our king?

Are you French? And with that confusion, there was more war. And then the French king, Charles IV, he died without an heir, he didn't have sons or brothers, you know, fuck his daughters and female relatives, what do they know, anything about war and life other than braiding hair, that's all they do. Servant was like, well who is the closest male relative? Everyone, pull down your pants! Turns out, they were Englishmen.

His closest relative were Englishmen. So the French were like, mm-hmm. We are not answering and bowing down to some English ass dude. No. We demand a French king. So the throne was passed down to one of Charlie's, Charlie. Charles's, Charlie's, French cousins. And this pissed off his English cousin who was like, I'm closer to the throne than you

are. I'm supposed to be the heir. And they wage war to get the throne. It was a different time back then. Men would go to war so that they could all sit on a special chair that made them feel special inspired. Sometimes they waged war for the prettiest girl that they had ever seen. And now, now they just steal your lunch in the break room and listen to Andru take. I'm just kidding. So lots of tension, lots of conflict, lots of blood,

and both is Jean the grandpa and Jill they wanted in on it. They both had military and political roles. So Jean had a son that died in battle. So really, Jill was his new son. His grandson was going to be his new heir, and he was working on grooming him to be just like him. And both of them were answering to King Charles VI, and the whole military mess was super unstable.

I mean, so unstable. King Charles VI was known as the Mad King. And it was a pretty offensive time I'm not gonna lie, but he would have active episodes of psychosis. He would lead a military expedition, and then attack his own men in the forest thinking they were the enemy. Yeah, he was definitely not mentally sound enough to lead a military expedition and then attack his own men in the forest thinking they were the enemy. Yeah, he was definitely not mentally sound enough to lead a whole country.

So really, the shots were being called by Charles' uncle and his wife, a woman, and then he would die. Just lots of changing positions of power, but regardless, Jean and Jill were in the royal court's favor because they had their own private army. So basically, there was the regular French army and then nobles would have their own private army, where they would hire people as employees to train and combat, provide them with weapons, and now instead of a team of, I don't know, bodyguards, they would have an army. It's crazy. Yeah, and Jill had a really well equipped army. They were well compensated, well trained, amazing weapons. I mean, they were better fighters than a lot of the French army men.

So Jill and John would send their troops wherever the courts wanted on their dime. Uh-huh. Jill would even participate in battles himself. He really liked being in combat, and his army men respected him as a leader because he would throw himself into combat just head first. He was like, I hate watching all my men have the fun killing people. He's really good because he never died in combat and unfortunately if he truly was a serial killer, that would be unfortunate that he didn't die. But they didn't do it for nothing. So the court would usually give them some land.

They would conquer a new area and then give them a little bit of land. So you know, they were definitely expanding their power. But people said that Jill had some pizzazz. So I'll call it, he had a way of leading people into violence. It was admirable, they said. He knew how to incite the violence. And the way that he dealt with prisoners on the other hand was terrifying. Jill loved to ran ransom more prisoners.

If he caught some English men, he would ransom for their release. He'd be like, hey, King of England, you want me to decapitate all of them or give me some cash? It was pretty common in war that you would ransom them, but if you ever caught French men that were fighting for the English cause, he would violently destroy them. He would execute them, torture them to send a message, this is what happens when you betray your country and side with the enemy. But a lot of people say he just wanted an

excuse to be violent. And during this time, Jill befriended a very famous woman, maybe one of the most famous woman in all of history, Joan of Arc. She's considered a saint in France, and historically and culturally a very significant figure, But back in the day when she was alive, she was a controversial figure. Joan of Arc was a leader in protecting a vital city for France. And at the time, some could call her kind of crazy. Others would call her a visionary. It was just a question of, is she a war hero or is she just delusional? Joan of Arc was a young woman who claimed she was blessed with a mission from God to make

sure that France was free of the English and to drive them out of their country. So, I mean, it's a noble mission. It's a noble cause, but she was a little bit a balsy. She thought that she was immortal. She thought that she was protected by God through all this mission. And she was very pivotal in France making sure that they weren't taken over by the English. So she is a saint to the French, but she was kind of reckless, okay? Anyway, the two become quite close. They're very friendly. Joan of Arc and Jill, and this is very important for later because Joan of Arc dies in a very horrific way.

So the two are friendly. They're not romantically seeing each other or anything, but I think they related to each other on the fact that they were, they were both kind of impulsive, and they were both favored by the French courts for a while. Jean and Gilles are even getting tons of positions in the court, tons of land and important regions of France as a thank you, but just as quickly as they're being rewarded, the

new king Charles the Seventh takes over, and Charles the Seventh was like, I'm a cultured man. Like Charles VI IV, whatever the fuck, they are barbarians. I believe in diplomacy. I don't think we need to stab each other. I think we can just sit and talk it out. There has to be a more diplomatic approach to deal with England. So that's what he's thinking, and then he'd get a knock on the door and they'd be like, uh, your highness, your royalty.

There's these two that are just charging into battle right now without asking us, uh, you know, Joan of Arc and Jill, yeah, they're out there. I don't know what you want me to do about it, but they're already killing people, so... there's that. Charles VII was trying to re-brand, okay? He's trying to be wholesome, and essentially these two are killing his whole brand. They're gonna get him canceled, but he can't just turn his back on them after everything that they've done. So when Joan of Arc was captured by the English, the Royal Court of France practically did nothing to get her back, which that normally doesn't happen. Even when she was burned at the stake, that's how she died.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, they burned her at the stake. I can't even imagine what she went through while being held captive by the English. I imagine, in war, it's very common, especially towards women that men are threatened by. And Joan of Arc was a very powerful woman. So Joan of Arc was executed, and Jill was broken. She was the only woman that he had ever been close to his entire life. He cherished their friendship, and now she was dead.

It was also around that time that Jean, his grandpa, died. On his deathbed, Jean had changed his mind. He went from being really into Jill, his partner in horrible crimes, literally to favoring his younger grandson, Renee. He had to leave all his money with Jill, for whatever reason, but he gave his sword and breastplate for Renee, which is like the ultimate fuck you to Jill back in the time. So either way, Jill became one of the richest men in France at just 28 years old.

And it's actually kind of old considering people lived to be like 40, 50 back then. So, and 28 year old Jill, he had no interest in protecting his assets. He only cared about spending it, literally spending it all. He was worth billions and he was squandering his wealth left and right. In the next 20 years, Jill would blow through nearly all of it, billions of dollars, all of it, 20 years, are you freaking kidding me? How is that even possible? Jill would throw billions into his personal military, he was obsessed with everything lavish.

He funded secret spies to go spy on his enemy's movements, and a lot of these weren't even spying on like English royalty or military men. It would be like another noble man that he had gotten into an argument with. Yeah his enemies. Very quickly he ran through all the family's cash. He had to start selling family castles to cover his bills and then he would use the cash to buy lavish decorations for a different castle. I'm talking like solid gold ornaments statues statues, paintings, furniture, made of gold. Anything lavish that you can imagine, he would buy it. He even financed the building of his own church called the Chapel of the Holy Innocence.

And it was really ironic and sick considering that Jill allegedly would kidnap the choir boys in that church to rape and torture and murder them. So he financed the entire church, he even had custom designs for the church officials attire in the choir boys uniforms. And when that got boring, Jill decided to finance a huge celebration of the anniversary of Joan of Ark's death. The people of Orleans, the city that she helped protect, they held a small humble ceremony for her every single May. But Jill was like, that's my best friend, I want to do something special for her. So he spent literal hundreds of millions of dollars, I'm not even kidding, on this celebration. He held a play that consisted of nearly 700 paid actors. He paid for 600 costumes to be created, custom made for this play.

There were multiple nights of the play, so it's like Friday's Saturday's Sunday shows. And each night, he wanted a new costume. So after the first play, they would burn the whole costume and then wait for the new one to come in. Even for rags, okay. So rags were worn by a lot of peasants, which rags are essentially just pieces of clothes that were stitched together. And instead of just using literal rags, they could be bought for like pennies on the dollar, Jill ordered the staff to buy new clothes, cut them up, and create rags, and make them dirty. Yeah, he imported literal tons of food and wine.

It was more of a festival than a play. He wanted it to be spectacular and very costly. Everyone whined and dined on his dollar, and that's where most of his fortune was blown. Listen, I don't know what's wrong with this guy. He was going bankrupt for this festival. I don't even understand it. So now he only has two castles left. I mean, think about that.

He started off owning more land, more castles than any other noble family in all of France, and now he only own two castles. I mean, he was nearly broke. To help finance his lifestyle, he was stealing from other travelers who would pass through his estates. He would steal from other nobles, borrow money, sell off everything he owned, and when that didn't work, he would kidnap a noble and get ransom. Everyone in his family tried to stop him from blowing the family fortune, which aside

note, there are defenders of Jill, who said that he was just a misunderstood guy, and that there's no proof that he was an evil dude. They say that Jill was just a generous man. He devoted his life to throwing parades and festivals and making sure that even beggars were fed. He was just too nice for his own good. Either way, the family couldn't necessarily stop Jill from spending money, but they did go to the king

and they embarrassed Jill one last time. The king officially branded Jill a spend-thrift, which basically means it is illegal to do any business with Jill, meaning you can't buy his castles, you can't buy his pawned belongings because he is a spend-thrift. He is essentially cut off no more contracts with him unless you want to get arrested. What? Yeah, so he's going to live in his castle with no cash. Poor dude.

It was a pretty embarrassing term to be officially declared by the courts. His reputation took the biggest nose dive since his grandfather passed away. But in the area of Brittany, Jill could still do business so he wasn't officially cut off. He started selling his land and belongings to noblemen of Brittany. And it was around this time and really soon after his grandpa died, that Jill admitted to some really dark deeds. It's that that Jill had always had a liking for young boys. And when his grandpa died, he finally felt free.

He felt free to explore his yearnings. No matter how immoral and second twisted it was, I'm not saying being gay is immoral. Not at all. I'm saying that being a pedophilic murder is a moral no matter your sexuality. So Jill constructed the chapel of holy innocence and he starts kidnapping choir boys from that church to be ripped and murdered inside of his castle. And practically any young boy that crossed paths with Jill were ripped and murdered. Sometimes young peasants boys would come knocking on his castle doors looking for work.

They were ripped and murdered. And when people stopped coming to his door, Jill would send out his servants to go looking for victims for him. The military man that Jill is, he had a process for these killings. It's that he was testified by his accomplices that Jill was very much into sitting on the chest of a young child, ejaculating on the child's stomachs while watching them being physically tortured. He would just masturbate on top of the child, while someone else or he himself would slowly cut off the child's head, and at the moment of decapitation, Jill would climax. His accomplice has said that Jill would get so excited when the

child died that he might climax more than once. Sometimes he would rape the children until they were no longer warm. His favorite thing to do though, was stop the cries. So he would have the children hung by the neck with hooks on the ceiling. They could no longer scream because of how much their necks were extended. And once they stopped screaming and struggling, Jill would let them down. Corress them. Pretend to massage their sore necks and tell them he's not actually going

to hurt them. He just wants to have fun, so stay silent so that he can have his fun. And then he can be on his merry way and we can all leave. But of course, that would not happen. Jill would be on top of the child masturbating and order his servant to cut a vital vein in the child's neck, it said that the blood splurding out of the child would push him to the ultimate climax. And sometimes, she'll would allegedly do different things. Sometimes he ordered his servants to torture the child, sometimes he did it himself, sometimes the child was stabbed while he masturbated, sometimes the child had their face smashed in

while he was masturbating. And in the end, the only thing that was kept, typically, were their heads, the decapitated heads. Jill would line them up in a row, kissing the ones that he found the prettiest. He was very picky, he had to make sure that all of his victims were quote, beautiful. He delighted at the sight of the beautiful heads detached from the bodies. He would even hold beauty contests for the decapitated heads. He would ask his servants which ones were the winners, and he would dramatically kiss the

winner on the lips. It's make things wilder. With the headless corpses, it said that Jill really liked to open them up and look at the insides. He loved looking at the internal organs like he really loved it. And then while the servants cleaned the blood off the walls, the child's lifeless bodies were thrown into a fire and burned, reduced to ashes while Jill would sleep, drink, eat, do whatever he wanted.

Interestingly, Jill never wanted too many bodies inside the fire because he was like, wait, someone's gonna smell the fire and they're gonna know that we're burning children. So they had to burn the bodies piece by piece, which was time consuming, and I guess sometimes they just stopped burning the corpses because they had better things to do. Meaning, sometimes Jill allegedly just had dead bodies lying around the castle. Inside note, it's said that he didn't care too much about the gender of his victims. I mean, yeah, he primarily liked young boys, yes. But he wasn't opposed to killing a little girl. So, once great. He never really raped or satanized them, at least not while they

were alive. He really got enjoyment from just watching them get tortured. He loved the spilling of blood, watching them die was the ultimate pleasure for him. Even cutting them open to stare at their insides, that provided intense pleasure for the sky. Allegedly, Jill was so into this that he forced his servants to create a pleasure torture chamber in each of his remaining castles. And from there, he almost had a routine. He would be pent up, angry from the stress of potentially being in financial ruins, and

he would have all this excess energy and anger to deal with, so he would call out to his servants, bring me a child. The servant would obey, because he remembers the first time he found out about the master's morbid secret. It wasn't even by his own choice, it was fate. Fate would have roped him into being a killer for Jill. Servant P was 10, and he was working in the Derey house. He was almost victim.

He walked in on Jill murdering a young boy, and Servant P was worried that he would be next, but instead, he was kept alive as a servant to do Jill's murderous bidding. He was raped many times by Jill in his cousins, and he was threatened to never reveal what he had seen or else. He was effectively trapped and here he was, being summoned again to procure yet another victim after all these years, Jill was still out for blood. Servant P would go out into the village, find a poor family

with a young son, and present the family with a work offer. Jill derives out there looking for a servant, He will pay well. I've been working for him for my whole life. He is the nicest employer you will ever meet. The young boy, 10, 11, 12, would be so excited to venture out into the world and his parents were delighted that a noble man wants their son to work for them. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's gonna catch us?

What a police! It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my girlfriend and we're going to rob some drug dealers. And I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all.

Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey Originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that 30 motherf***er. So the boy gets brought to the castle. And the castle is everything he had hoped for, it's massive, it's huge, it's adorned with gold everywhere, and this is his future.

He'll have a nice enjoyable dinner with Jill, whereas whine is spiked. And as the ebbs inflows out of consciousness, he will be taken to the upper room, where he is stripped naked and hung from the neck. He can't even scream as Jill masturbates over his naked body. And when he's done, the boy is released gasping for breath. Oh, don't be so serious, boy. We're just playing a game, you know? It's all right. I mean, Jill can be convincing when he wants to, so the boy will calm down a bit, thinking Jill's gonna let him go and hopefully this is a one-time thing, like some sort of initiation. But no. Jill was waiting for the boy to let his guard down. And now, now the real torture began. The boy was either stabbed, strangled, or even dismembered

while still conscious, and if satisfied, now that the child was dead, Jill would call for the servant again. Good one on this one. This child was well chosen. He's beautiful as an angel, and he would keep the head as a trophy. And the rest of the victim's bodies would be thrown into the fire. And with Jill's blood there's just getting worse, Servant P would get a right hand man of sorts, another accomplice, Servant H, and the two of them would die for Jill's crimes. But before that, let's talk about Jill's get rich quicks game. At this point, Jill is selling off his castles one by one just dead bodies and all, torture

chambers and all. Like straight up he sold a castle where the new owners found a few dead bodies of little boys. And they didn't even think twice about it. They did not care that a peasant boy was dead. They were just like, ugh, get this out this room. So Jill is selling the castle. Another castle after another castle, and now it's time for him to put a stop to it. Soon he's only gonna be down to, I don't know, just one castle.

So instead of finding a 9-5 job, he decides to concoct a Get Rich Quick scheme. He hires an Alchemist. This Alchemist was more of a scammer than anything. All he wanted was to promise big, big things and then take your money. He straight up told Jill that he could turn Silver into Gold and other metals into Silver. So by that logic, he could turn steel into gold. He could turn anything into gold. I mean, imagine how rich he could be. Why the Alchemist still needed to work instead of just turning everything into gold and retiring? We will never know. Don't ask trick questions. So the Alchemist. And I'm not saying Alchemy is a scam before anyone gets confused. This guy just was a major scam, okay?

This guy just was a major scam, okay? Blanchette was his name, and Blanchette, he promised Jill that he would turn regular metal into gold, and that he could help Jill find buried treasures. All he had to do was find someone to summon the demons to tell him where the treasures were. Okay, it sounds so scammy, come on. So Blanchette introduces him to Francis. He Francis was this handsome young man, probably early 20s, over a decade younger than Jill at the time. He was attractive, well-spoken, he spoke Italian, French,

Latin, and he was a hell of a con artist. People said he was a good con artist, but he was even better in bed. Yeah, if you get what I'm, you know, getting out. I don't know if he knew how to summon a spirit, but he could summon other things, you know what I mean? And he knew how to talk. He was attractive, charismatic, very seductive, young, and a foreigner, I thought. He was Italian. I mean, he had the whole package. Jill was wrapped around his finger. Francis promised he would summon a demon for Jill, a demon named Baron who would get him rich. He said he had done it before and it was super easy. He had Jill practicing many rituals and preparation for the big one where the demon would come forth. But conveniently, Demon Baron was a bit shy. He would only show up for Francis when he was alone.

I mean, come on now. How can Jill not see that he's getting scammed? It is so obvious. But no, he can't see it. Jill believed him because Francis would be in a room, summoning the demon, and then he would stumble out being, you know, his pupils dilated, he looks sweaty, disoriented, and he's like, demon Baron came to see me. And everyone's like, oh my god, the demon.

He was here. Where? Is he gone now? Yeah. He was really putting on an ox. A good one. Francis would run out of the room into Jill's arms, telling him that demon Demon Baron was pissed and that he had summoned a beast to get Francis. He was panting and sweating so much that Jill believed him.

Jill was out there in all hours of the night performing rituals in his garden and it was Goofy. Real Goofy, I don't know what else to say about it. Francis wasn't even there half the time. He was probably home getting his beauty sleep. Demon Baron never came and Jill was disappointed. He even prepped a letter, a contract for the demon. It pretty much said, demon Baron, I want to deal with the devil. I want infinite wealth while I'm alive. I'll give you whatever you want, except for my soul and my life.

Obviously, I want to live to be rich, right? Great negotiation. Like what the hell does Sarah, Demon Baron want from you anyway? Franz is also Tokajil to this massive room, it was more like a safe. Franz has said, you know the demon. That sent me a ton of things in gold before. So I know Demon Baron means well, we just need him to open up to you quite a bit more. Jill walked in, bulked at all the gold, and thought about how this was going to be his

one day, and he couldn't help himself. Before Franz could shut the door. He pushed past him and started running around the room exploring the gold Turns out all the gold was fake And instead of realizing that he was getting scammed by Francis and Francis was a scammer Jill just automatically thought maybe demon Baron is testing me Maybe demon Baron is messing with me to see if I'm actually curious. That meant he would have to pay Francis more to show Demon Baron just how serious he was. Like this guy is getting played so hard he even made up excuses for Francis himself. And when Jill had to leave the castle for business,

Francis would give him these little stones to wear around his neck for power and lock. And instead of realizing he was being conned, he would get mad at Demon Baron for playing tricks on him. The freaking invisible demon, the prank star. Sometimes Jill would fly into a rage at the demon and would demand another child to murder. Jill became so desperate that he even offered child sacrifices up to Demon Baron. He started murdering victims outside his home and he would even take their eyes and their hands and their head to give to demon Baron.

I mean a lot of these murders find it seemed like maybe he did do it in the motivation of summoning a demon but most of them were for sexual release purposes. Both of his servants would later testify. Yeah, he just really got off on it. By the beginning of the next year, Jill was getting near the end of his rope and he didn't even know it. By the beginning of the next year, Jill was getting near the end of his rope, and he didn't even know it. A few years ago, three years ago to be exact, two bodies of young boys were discovered in a castle that Jill had sold to a new owner, and at the same time, people in the area noticed that their sons were going missing, and it was all near that estate. The parents of the missing boys came together to take action. They formally asked the Duke of Brittany to facilitate a formal investigation into Jill

and he agreed. Something definitely was going on, which side note if you're wondering why the parents finally came together to do something, maybe they're negligent parents? Not really. So back then, if you were to question a nobleman and you yourself were a peasant, you could be thrown in jail. So each family on their own, they were terrified to speak out even though they had their suspicions. So their only way was originally hinting that Jill was strange.

They talked about how Jill's servants called, um, they were called the terror. They were nicknamed the terrors. Because they were seen recruiting the young children before those young children were missing. And Jill himself had been seen around these kids that would soon vanish. And I don't know, maybe it was something supernatural. So that's what they're hinting at, like this guy is stealing kids, but we can't say it soon vanish. And I don't know, maybe it was something super natural. So that's what they're hinting at. Like this guy is stealing kids, but we can't say it out right, because we don't want to go to jail.

The anxiety of the investigation allegedly led Jill to want to kill more. And the more he killed the more bodies he was left with, the more stressed he was, and it was this whole cycle. So finally, he was arrested by the Duke of Brittany for murdering children. That's what he was arrested for.

But the Duke really wanted him arrested because Jill had scammed the Duke's best friend. Okay, there's no justice in the world. There never was, there never is. That's just how it is, I guess. So he gets arrested for cutting the throats of and killing and heinously massacring many young and innocent boys. It's speculated that many more than just the two servants had helped with the murders, including Jill's own two cousins, but they all fled, or they covered their tracks and only Jill and the two servants were arrested and tried. Now the reason that a lot of people are skeptical on whether or not Jill was a serial killer was that the courts mainly relied on his testimony, and back then, not unlike now, they tortured

you into confessing. You would get taken into a straight-up torture chamber that they called the Inquisition Chamber, and they would torture a confession out of you. So Jill went from, I didn't do this, three days later, I did it, I did it because I got off on it. He said that he committed the crimes for his own pleasure and carnal delight, and with no other intention, with crazy is that Francis even sold him out and testified against him. And Jill was so damn bad, he didn't even feel betrayed by Francis, the demon summoner. At the courthouse, he was like, goodbye, Francis, my friend.

We shall never see each other in this life again, but I pray that God gives you plenty of patience and understanding. Francis was unmoved. He never loved Jill. He only loved his money. So Jill and his servants, they were sentenced to death. They would all be hanged and burned. Being burned was a huge thing because your soul would never be at rest. Your family would never have a proper burial. It was like adding insult to injury. So it was a range that Jill would be lowered into the fire as a symbolic gesture, but his body would be quickly taken out so that his family could bury him. Because he was a noble man.

Even though he did all the crimes and technically the servants sure there is accomplices but literally it was a death sentence because it's a death sentence to go against a noble at the time. So I would say that they don't really have a choice in this scenario but their bodies were burned to ashes. Their families never got a proper burial. Now this is back in like the 1400s. There was no DNA evidence, no fingerprints, no blood samples. It was just your servant said this and we found some bodies, you fool, confess now, or I'm going to slice your legs apart.

Pretty much. And most likely, you would just confess because have you seen these old and day torture devices? So there are supporters of Guilder Eye. I would not be surprised if there was like a fan club for him. So guys, remember, maybe he's not a killer, but even though there's a lot of circumstantial evidence, I'm not sure, but he was still quite the moody rich noble man that didn't care for his servants' lives. Like he didn't seem like a great person regardless.

Anyways, his supporters say that there was no evidence against him. He was misunderstood and innocent. Meanwhile, those who believe he was guilty believe that there were too many rumors, too many suspicious circumstances, there must be some truth to it. So how many victims did this guy have? You know, it's hard to say. I've heard figures in the 20s, 30s, and then it would shoot up to 200, 600 even. More likely, according to testimonies from victims in their parents, it's probably more like 40 to 80 victims, which is a lot of victims. But what's interesting is that there are still people

that believe that he's innocent. In fact, as recent as 1992, the French Senate held an informal retrial for Guil d'Arie where they acquitted him of his crimes. Under the notion that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute him. Just bear in mind the retrial meant nothing. It was merely symbolic.

And it wasn't even for Guil d'Arie. It all mainly happened for Joan of Arc. France wanted to apologize to Joan of Arc for the way that she was treated, and then she was pronounced a saint in 1992. And in the same vein, there was a retrial for one of her closest friends, Guilderai. And I guess the court didn't want to believe that an associate of a little saint could be a pedophile and toddler, so we don't know what the motivation for was odd, you know. But there are actual books written on his innocence and his guilt. There are historians that argue there was no forensic evidence.

The court records are messy. There's a lot of inconsistencies. Maybe the Duke of Brittany was just pissed off and Jill had messed with his friend. There were those that think he's guilty for various different reasons. His own servants testified against him and they were terrified of him. It's seen what he was capable of. I mean, there's a lot. I just, I feel like something fishy was going on in that castle.

Because I believe the villagers, you know? Because your son goes missing. You're not just going to make up these supernatural stories or like randomly pick on an old man like your wife is at stake. A lot of his behavior has similarities with serial killers in a sense. He was neglected, thrust into a violent world, he saw a lot of blood growing up during his developmental years and he liked it. He like got off on it.

I don't know, was he guilty or was he just a troubled man? And just a fully on the story. Catherine, his kidnapped wife now widow, remarried a powerful ally to the Duke of Brittany, and then never really reappeared in history ever again. Meanwhile, Marie, their one daughter, their one child, married an admiral in the French Navy who was a fierce enemy to the Duke of Brittany, and the family was torn once again.

Interestingly, she had a stone memorial built for her father, yeah, Gilderay, and the site became a holy altar where pregnant women would come to pray that they would produce enough breast milk to keep their children healthy. Yeah, it's kind of random, yeah. But Marie would remain childless, bringing another end to the derailleur. And that is the story of Gilderay, Gilderay. I don't know how to pronounce this name. You don't understand how many videos

and everyone says it differently. I think maybe if you're British, you say it differently. I think if you're French, you say it. I mean, I should listen to the French people, right? It's very hard. But that's it for today's mini-sode. What are your thoughts? Do you think he killed all those kids?

And do you really think that he did it just for sexual purposes? Or do you think that he was not does anything? But there is a connection between very rich people and conspiracies of child sacrifices. Why is that a thing? You think there's something there? Or you think it's just a conspiracy

that people are just drawn to? And was he the originator of such conspiracies? Giving up a child for wealth and power? Let me know your thoughts. And I'll see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye. your seas, giving up a child for wealth and power. Let me know your thoughts.

And I'll see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye.