Rotten Mango - #222: The Survival Story of a Mute Boy Sold Into Pedophilia Organization

Episode Date: December 18, 2022

Joe’s mom had big big plans for him. She was one of those parents that liked to have high expectations for her children. She wanted Joe to accomplish things she never thought of doing when she was his age. She told him “you’re going to be a big big star in those films Joe.” He was confused. He was only 9. He didn’t know how to read, write, or even talk so how was he going to memorize a full script? She must have caught onto his curious expression because she looked down at him and beamed… “You’re going to be world’s youngest p*rn star!” Joe was too young to know what that meant but he would soon find out. Book: “Cry Silent Tears” - by Joe Peters (This was one of the most eye opening books I’ve read this entire year. If you do anything this week, please go give this book a read. There is so much to learn here.) Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Better being better boo. Welcome to this week's mini-sauda rotten mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Joe's mom had big plans for Joe. She wanted Joe to do things that she would never have done when she was his age. You know the parents that have all those high expectations for their children? She was kind of like that.

She just wanted Joe to bring in the dough. Okay, she's like, you need to start earning your keep around here. You need to start paying for the groceries. She told him, you can be a big star. You're gonna make these big old films, okay? Joe's confused. He was nine. He had never acted in his life before. He smiled though. He's like, okay, Mom, carry on

She's like, you're gonna be an actor Joe is still confused But he couldn't ask questions because he was mute and he was never taught sign language He couldn't read or write. There was not really many ways that Joe could communicate with her He wondered how he would even memorize a script when he couldn't read it. And then, catching on, Joe's mom smiled at him and she boomed down at him. Joe, don't worry, you are going to be the youngest porn star ever. Oh, I'm cheese.

Joe was too young to even know what that meant. But for the next four years, Joe would be taken to a house every single weekend and school holiday, a house that was filled with children and men, men with cameras, grown men, who would force the children to perform all sorts of disgusting, vile acts so that they could film it all. Yeah, we're talking about a huge child pornography ring today. Now, as always always full show notes are available at rottenminglepodcast.com but the main sources for this pod was a book called Cry Silent Tears by Joe Peters. He has another amazing book which I'm gonna read next and I would love for you guys to read both of them with me because I think this story just needs to be heard and it needs to be felt and Joe tells it

like like nobody else. I mean, this is Joe's story, but his next book is called Crime Myself to Sleep. I was researching about the Balenciaga Child Abuse Campaigns recently, that's gonna be on YouTube, a different video, but I mean, just a sheer number of children that are victimized on a daily basis is terrifying. I mean, I think when we really sit there and like, take a moment to grasp just how many children on a daily basis is terrifying.

I mean, I think when we really sit there and like take a moment to grasp just how many children are being abused or assaulted, I feel like my brain was about to explode. Even when we fly into New York City, I can't help but like stare at the window and I mean, I do this practically on every plane, but you start freaking yourself out. Do you guys ever do that?

Like thinking how many dead bodies are hidden? Like, how many houses are filled with violence and people locked in cellars? I think that's what makes today's case even more infuriating. I mean, just adults praying on little children is already despicable and those people deserve to rot in the darkest hottest parts of hell or whatever painful afterlife you believe in. But the ones that prey on disabled children, on mute children, the ones that audibly, verbally cannot voice their trauma, it makes my blood boil. So with that being said, there is a trigger warning that it's gonna be

heavy on child abuse today. Just really heavy. It's really gruesome, it's really intense. So with that being said, have you heard of the Kwangju Inwa School in South Korea? You're like, okay, this sounds completely random, what does this have to do with Jo? But hear me out, it all connects. Because pedophilia and child abuse and the abuse of children with disabilities seems to be universal. It's from all corners of the world. The Inwa school was opened back in 1961. It's no longer opened by the way. You'll find out why. But it was a school that was dedicated in South Korea dedicated to students with learning disabilities. So most of the students they were hearing impaired. Many of them had speech impediments. A lot of them were mute. The school was supposed to be like this amazing place. Wow, we've got these dorm residences. For students who don't have guardians who can take care of them, you can stay with us. We'll take care of you. The school was

supposed to be dedicated to making sure that the students got all the resources, the curriculum, that they needed to survive as adults in South Korea. I mean, it sounds like it should have been a safe place. It sounds progressive, it sounds like it should have been a safe place. It sounds progressive. It sounds like the type of place that more cities need, right? But it wasn't. So to give you an example of how horrible this school was, most of the students were hearing impaired.

And most of the school staff weren't fluent in sign language. So, I mean, it's kind of ridiculous. I guess you're just expecting the children to read lips or to read everything that you write. It's out of this world. I think only just expecting the children to read lips or to read everything that you write It's out of this world. I think only one of the teachers was fluent in sign language And he also seemed to be the only teacher that actually cared about the students There's actually a Netflix movie that's based on this true life story It's called silenced and in the movie the teacher realizes there's one teacher

Amazing he realizes that all the students are genuinely terrified of him, for no reason at all. Like they are scared to be alone with him, they avoid him at all costs outside of the classroom. They don't want to be near him. He's like, that's weird. I've never had this experience before being a teacher. Eventually, he starts finding out it's because the kids are being molested by the school administrators. Now, in real life, it's because the kids are being molested by the school administrators.

Now, in real life, it happened a little bit differently. The teacher was informed by one of the students' parents that their daughter had been sexually assaulted by the school administrator and she was going to drop out. I mean, he was confused because first of all, why is the parent alerting him? Like, there's so many people above him, he's just one of the teachers, right? Why is nobody doing something? Why is the administrator still coming to work where there's more children around?

So we told the school nurse about it to ask her if, you know, other students had evidence of sexual assault and the school nurse just brushed it off. So this teacher feels like, am I losing my mind? He went to the other teachers they brushed it off too. I mean, what the fork is going on here. So finally, when nobody would listen, he reached out to human rights groups. And he was fired.

He was fired from his job. And in Korea, South Korea, it's really hard to get a new job when you've been fired. It's not like America. Basically, you being fired is like you being blacklisted from your profession, your industry, your livelihood. And it was a risk that he took because the victim's deserved a voice. So he gets fired, he gets all sorts of threats from this school, and with enough screaming, enough pleading, enough begging,

the human rights group decided to get involved. Former students were interviewed, and at that point, the police kind of got involved, you know, but it was bizarre. It's like the police and these government officials they cared, but they didn't seem that passionate to get to the bottom of this case. They didn't seem that passionate to put it to an end. Until public outrage got so big they had to face the music. Then they found out so many alarming things. Okay, this school was doing so many shady things, not just molesting their students,

but staff would take government issued supplies for the kids. So imagine just boxes of notebooks would show up at the school. The school would sell them to random vendors for cheaper to make a quick profit. How much can you even make for notebooks? That's what I'm saying. They enrolled students beyond maximum capacity to receive more government funds, and there were even allegations of students being forced to work, like being forced into physical labor at nearby plants and factories. And then, nine victims came forward to share their stories of sexual assault. The youngest victim was seven years old.

They were molested by six different school officials. The principal and the head administrator being two of them. The students said, you know, the assault started gradually. The staff would either accidentally brush past your chest or maybe your backside. And yeah, it's wildly inappropriate, but it was super subtle. Then the students were invited to the staff's office where porn would just be playing. Students even claimed that they had walked in on the administrators playing porn and touching themselves. And then slowly, they were sexually assaulted.

Many of the victims were mute, so they felt incredibly powerless. They said that they couldn't even verbalize what was happening to them. Sometimes the victims would scream, and if another student heard, and they tried to stop it, the administrators would just beat them with bats or glass soda bottles.

If the victims tried to complain to anyone, a nurse, a teacher, they were punished. They were beaten. One of the victim's heads was forced into a running washing machine as punishment. One of the worst cases was a young student. Her hands and ankles were tied up just all night long, okay? She from evening until morning, she was sexually assaulted for 15 hours straight. Sometimes the teachers would play a movie in the class and ask one of the female students to the back,

where the teacher would repur right then and there in the back of the class. If a student performed poorly on a test, she would be sexually assaulted as punishment. Most of the assaults were targeted towards the dorm students since they had nowhere to go. It's not like they could go home at the end of the school day. They literally resided at the school. They had to sleep at the school. One of the most disturbing stories, the principal invited a student to his house to have dinner and then dragged her into his office inside of his house by the way his wife and children were outside they just all had dinner together and he raped her in his office inside of his family home with his wife and children right next door a

Lot of people speculate that the principal's wife knew exactly what was going on and it gets even crazier Because all the staff were related. So the head administrator was the school chairman's son, and the principal of the school was also the chairman's son. So the principal and the head administrator, they were brothers, and they were both heavily going around just keeping their students. So it's like a whole family running the school. Yes. And just keeping the kids. Yes, the head teachers were also all relatives of the family, like the main teachers. They all knew what was going on.

They tried to quiet the victims so that they could protect their own. In the end, six suspects were arrested, but don't get excited that justice is gonna be served because the head administrator, who is at the center of all the allegations, he was the really nasty one. He got only eight months in prison.

The principal got 2 years and 6 months, and the others they only received like 10 months each. But most of them appealed their sentences and they were released on probation and they probably spent maximum a few weeks in jail. So you're like, how the hell did that happen? So in Korea at the time, the law around sexual assaults were different. And the victims would have to personally sue their rapists in order to put them in jail, which meant that students who were already dealing with this trauma, they would now have to be dealing with the trauma of the lawsuits. So a lot of them backed out. They just wanted to put the whole thing behind them. But thankfully, a movie was made called Silence, and the head administrator was sentenced to eight years in prison with new evidence coming out as they were filming for that movie

No way yeah, so the movie served some justice. Yes, but it just shows the world I think even even eight years is not enough, you know, of course I think it just shows the world that we need to protect children. I mean, I think it's so terrifying just how blatant these people are. Like the same thing with Balenciaga. Like, it's so, they don't even try to hide it. I just don't understand. And I just feel like, we don't really do a good job at protecting children, especially those that are extra vulnerable. So this case really put into perspective for me just how horrible the systems are at protecting children.

Let's talk about Joe. Joe's first word was fuck. I'm just going to be very honest with you. Doctors speculated that Joe had been through so much trauma at a young age that at just five years old, he stopped talking. The connection between his brain and his mouth did not work anymore. So no matter how hard he tried, he could not control his voice. I think that must have been so terrifying.

I mean, being so young and suddenly you can't talk like you could before, the confusion, the trauma, the frustration of not being able to communicate anymore, the isolation. Doctors said that they didn't know if this would be short term or long term effect of trauma, but at school. Joe starts working with the teacher to help him learn to communicate, you know. In some way, shape or form, he wasn't able to read or write even at that time. He didn't know sign language. So one of the teachers was incredibly patient with him. She tried to understand what he was saying even when he wasn't talking. incredibly patient with him. She tried to understand what he was saying,

even when he wasn't talking. She heard him more than anybody else did. After a year, after a year, of just trying to do these mouth exercises, you know, Joe, this is where you put your tongue, Joe, do this with your lips. To make the right noises, Joe, she turned around, distracted with something.

When Joe coughed out his first word in nearly five years, she turned around and he said, fuck, and both parties knew it was a bad, bad curse word, and she remained calm and she said with a giggle, oh, well at least you know what that word is then, and that day it was almost as if a blockage had cleared in Joe's mind. The word started rushing out, his throat started to swell from the string that he was putting on it. He said, talking is a function most of us take for granted every day of our lives. But when you're trying to relearn the knack of it

from scratch, it's incredibly complex and difficult. How old was he then? 10. So you're like, what happened to Joe that traumatized him so much? It all started when he saw his dad die in front of him. He watched the whole thing happen, screaming, and he couldn't do anything. I think this is one of those stories that really, I don't know, it just stayed with me, and it made me

realize just how fragile life is. How in the blink of an eye, everything can change. And if I think about it for too long, I start to get terrified. So Joe was a little boy when he went to work with his dad. He was five years old so obviously Joe is not the one working His dad is his dad William, but Joe always went to the auto shop to hang out be supervised He loved watching his dad crawl under the cars and make them work again. It was like magic His dad would come up to him and initiate him into the car club Which was just to smear some car grease on his nose. And Joe felt like that was like his battle wound. That was his war scars, you know.

And that day, the windy morning in February, they pull up to the auto shop, and one of the co-workers called over to Joe's dad. Hey, can you smell the gas? I looked all over for it. I can't really find it. William nodded, ducked back into the car. Joe, you stay here, it'll take a minute, okay? Joe knew the drill.

When it came to gas for some reason, Joe wasn't allowed near the stuff. If someone smelled like gas, if something smelled like gas, the whole thing, the whole operation at the auto shop, people were looking for it. His dad would tell him over and over that cars are fun and cool, yes, they're amazing.

You can learn from them, but cars are very, very dangerous. So Joe sat in the car while he watched his dad through the window. He watched him walk into the shop and saw him roll under the car that his coworker was having difficulties with. Everything was normal. The phone was ringing, customers were in and out. Joe even called out to his dad from inside the car. Dad, can I go under the car with you? No, you stay there, Joe, I'll just be a minute. Joe tried to distract himself in the car

when he saw a customer coming out of the waiting room with a cigarette in his mouth. He casually flicked his cigarette onto the ground near the door, and the wind picked it up and it bounced across the floor, and it's like Joe saw it in some ocean. And one minute, everything was normal and calm. And the next minute, the car and it's like Joe's side in some ocean and one minute everything was normal and calm and the next minute the car that Joe's dad was under blew up in flames Joe watched in horror as the orange flames just took over

the entire place he was trapped inside of his dad's car outside of the car shop and he's screaming dad dad The car had been lifted into the air from the explosion and plopped onto the side like some action movie. And their joke would see his dad covered in orange flames, running around the garage, and his screens were warping. Like they were raw screams of pain and terror and panic and joke could hear every single second of it. The movement was making the fire burn faster and faster because of the oxygen

and it was burning with more intensity and william. The dad's coworkers rushed out of the office and they watched in horror. Some of them were frozen. Some were trying to help. One of them was trying to get the fire extinguisher to work, but he couldn't get it. It was jammed and that man That tried to get the fire extinguisher to work later. He would take his own life

So to little Joe in the car he felt like nobody was helping his dad Did they find who the hell's through the cigarette? Yeah, but I don't think they could do anything a couple weeks ago We were out with their sister. We were in line. There was a big-ass trash can in front of us, right with bags and bags of trash Uh-huh on the sidewalk and someone just walked over and threw a cigarette That was still on just he just tossed it in there. How come I didn't see that all while I was like I was sitting there the way he did it was so casual Without even I thought that I was sitting there the way he did it was so casual. Oh. Without even a thought that I was sitting there thinking,

did I saw that right? Because there was no regard. He just walked by right in front of all these people standing there. Oh my God. Plopped his cigarette in there. That's still going. What is wrong with people?

The way that they just put out cigarettes, we talked about the other one, the other case. Remember they put out the cigarette into the, this was a YouTube video, but they put out a cigarette into the trash can, and later after the restaurant closed, that thing burst into flames. Like nobody knew it was an instant, it was way later. So finally, a neighbor comes over and throws him onto the floor, beats the flames off of him, and ambulance pulls up and Joe could see his dad on the ground. His whole

body was black and charred, and he was convulsing. He was going into shock. Joe finally freed himself from the car ran straight to his dad where he felt someone's adult hands grab him, cover his eyes, and pull him away. Joe said he didn't get to see his dad close up, but he would never forget the smell. The smell of burned flesh. And then the ambulances came and they took him away. Joe's dad was like his best friend, his guardian angel, like his whole world. I mean, to be fair, a lot of boys think that.

A lot of boys look up to their dad. And therefore, when boys are young and they're as tall as the kitchen counter and these big towering dads with muscles can reach the top shelf and hammer things together, it's giving superhero. It's like the three stages of life they say. First stage you realize your parents aren't superhuman. Second stage you realize you're not superhuman. Third stage you realize your kids are not super human. Second stage, you realize you're not super human. Third stage, you realize your kids are not super human. But Joe's case was a little bit different. Joe's dad literally was his superman. The two were attached at the hip and if they weren't Joe and inevitably end up needing stitches

or he would have a black eye that had swollen his entire eye shut. You're like, wow, Joe's a troublemaker. No, it's not because Joe was an irresponsible kid that liked to get into trouble and heard himself, there was a villain in this story. It was Joe's own mom. She loved hated her husband, loved William, hated him because he didn't love her back, and purely hated Joe because her husband loved their son more than he loved her. So, every day, Joe would rush to be with his dad, go to work at the car mechanic shop with him, and he would spend all day just watching him and aw, fixing these cars, teaching Joe about cars, tools.

It was the only time that Joe felt safe and content. Well, that and when he was at Marie's house. Marie was like his mom, except she wasn't. And she wasn't his dad's wife, okay, yikes. She was a mistress, but she was a better mom than his biological mom would ever be. He felt maternal love from her. She was this warm, loving, compassionate person. Sometimes Joe would even slip up and call Marie mom, and her eyes would go wide with shock

and she would tell him, you can't ever call me that again, okay? You have to call me Auntie Marie. It wasn't because she was mean, it wasn't because she didn't wanna be his mom. She was just terrified. They all were. Of Leslie, Joe's mom. What you watch depends on what kind of majoring.

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Max, the one to watch. Subscription required. Visit max.com. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby,

or counting your breaths on the subway. We're inhaling and long exhale out. Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay description starting at 12.99 per month. Leslie was something. Okay, that's a nice way of putting it. She knew Marie. Somehow she always knew about everything, okay? And one one time she dragged a little joke from Marie's house while William the dad was at work and she brought Joe home, screamed at him, smacked him around, and when she wasn't satisfied her eyes went crazy.

She grabbed his tiny little hand and made him touch it flat up against the hot iron until he felt like the first layer of his skin was going to melt off. Finally she let him go and his body flew to the other side of the room. He had snought into your streaming down his face when William, the dad came home and he screamed at her. Look what you're doing to him. He's terrified of you. His own mother. Leslie was down for a good screaming match.

In fact it was her forte. It's not me. It's you. It's you and your whore have turned him against me. What the fuck did you do to his hand? Oh, he touched the iron. He was messing around as per usual. Yeah, and what about the bruises on his face?

How do you explain that Leslie? He fell over. Joe didn't care. Who is dad believed? Joe just wanted to get out of there. He kept pleading, dad, can we please leave? And the two would storm out into dad's car and drive off to the hospital to get his wound patched up.

Look, I get it. The whole dynamic is super confusing. She's a child abuser, he's a cheater, what's going on, and why is Joe being brought into all of these messes? The Peter family was not a normal family. It like does not have your normal fairy tale origins, not that most families that we talk about do here, but this one is especially strange. So William the dad, this is when he's young,

had a best friend named Frank. Frank had a girlfriend named Marie. That's how William met Marie. And Marie had a best friend named Leslie. Oh. So one day William and Frank are Marie had a best friend named Leslie So one day William and Frank are like, let's go to a big party and of course Frank was gonna bring his girlfriend Marie And Marie invited her girl best friend Leslie now it gets confusing but bear with me William and Marie were in love But Frank is William's best friend and how they met so neither of them wanted to go through with this attraction that they had for each other

They just kind of danced around it. They had these shared look, they had these glances, they tried to stay cordial for Frank's sake, but it was all getting too much. So the day at the party, William Salmere's best friend Leslie, who was drunk and hitting on him, having no clue that she was stepping into a love triangle that was literally on the brink of exploding any second now, she starts hitting on William. I mean she probably thought it was a stellar idea like how cute. This is the best friend of my best friend's boyfriend. Imagine all the cute double dates. And at first William wanted to turn down her advances but then he thought you know what? Maybe this is the push that we need. Maybe this is the push that Marie needs. William was down to get together with her

and tell Frank the truth, but she was the one that was a little bit more hesitant. So he's thinking, okay, I'm gonna make Marie a little bit jealous, and then she's gonna come running to me, and then we're gonna tell Frank everything. And this is what I need to do. Besides, he was watching Marie and Frank at the party together,

and he was just starting to feel jealous. Maybe he could make Marie jealous by flirting with Leslie. Now, he clearly wasn't thinking straight. But one thing led to another, better being better boom, two months later, Leslie is pregnant with William's child. And his whole plan had blown up in his face. William was never in love with Leslie. He loved Marie and he would never stop loving her. He did decide though that he dug his grave and he needed to lie in it. He proposed to Leslie out of respect and the two got married. They were pregnant with Joe Peters. But it wasn't after till they got married, which is like what, within

three months of meeting each other. Leslie is like, by the way, I have three other kids. He's like, I'm sorry, what? Yeah, three kids. I'm sure at first William tried to be a faithful husband and man, but as time went on, it was harder and harder to resist his one true love Marie and like things aren't working well with us. So one night he decided it's time. He went over to Marie's while Frank was at work and they had this passionate love affair and while they were doing it, Frank decided to come home early. He catches his wife and his best friend in bed together. I mean he was speechless literally couldn't even string together the curse words. He turned you turned out there really runs after him

pulling up his pants. Oh, it's like God. If it ever gets there just don't do the rushed pulling on the pants saying it's not what you think. I just think it makes it so much worse, no. He ran after his best friend, Frank, and there was just no going back now. Their friendship was ruined. They got into a literal physical altercation on the street. They had to be pulled apart by neighbors, and later Frank assaulted Marie.

And everyone in the neighborhood, in their friend group, in their community, they had found out what happened, including Leslie Williams' pregnant wife, the mother of his child, Joe. She was publicly humiliated, but she wasn't gonna let him go. Especially not now, why would she do that? Why would she let him go so that he can have his happily ever after with Marie? No. She channeled all that pain, all that betrayal, all that hurt and anger, and she vowed to make his life miserable until the day that he died. And she did exactly that. And since the day that Joe was born, William would be super busy, shielding Joe from

the abuses of his mom, but also super busy bouncing from Leslie and Marie. Joe is certain that if he wasn't accidentally conceived, William would have married Marie, and they would have stayed together and been happy, which Jo says is an odd feeling. He said, I was there. I was the reason that everything changed for the worse. Now, Jo was like a mini-William since the day

that he was born. He looked like him, talked like him. He looked up to William more than anything, and that just pissed off Leslie. She had suffered all that humiliation and hormones for what? He looked like him, talked like him, he looked up to William more than anything, and that just pissed off Leslie. She had suffered all that humiliation and hormones for what? A mini frickin' William, she hates William, why would she want a mini William? And to make it worse, Joe was the center of William's world, he loved him more than anything,

and inevitably, since Leslie saw Joe as more Williams' mini-me rather than her own literal child that she birthed, she started to use Joe to get back at William, to hurt William. She would do absolutely insane things like dangle him out of the window of the second story to threaten William. He would be red in the face screaming, don't drop him! She would shout out the window, do you want to take the little bastard or not? And the next thing Joe would hear is the front door slam open, heavy footsteps pounding up and him being world-backed to Earth safely on the second floor. His face would be red from all the blood that had just rushed to his head.

And this was one of the very few occasions that William had ever gotten physical with a woman. He hit Leslie. They both tapped out at the end of the fight, Leslie had a busted lip and William had two black eyes. Yeah, Joe could have died that day. For what? Because Leslie was sick, and twisted, and evil, and jealous. But she wasn't done. After William stormed out of the house with Joe, she immediately called the police and

started telling them the most passionate sob story of how she was just trying to take care of their son while William was out sleeping around with all these different whores, and when she asked for help, he hit her and busted her lip. She played the part of the innocent victim, and so he became the brutal violent man in the eyes of the police. And for a while, William would cut off Marie just to make Leslie happy, but they were like star-cress lovers. They would always find a way back to each other.

But oddly enough, William also found time to be with Leslie, because apparently when things were good, they were like star-cress lovers. They would always find a way back to each other. But oddly enough, William also found time to be with Leslie because apparently when things were good, they were good. Leslie ended up giving birth to two more children with William. Ellie and Thomas. For some reason, Ellie was Leslie's favorite. Maybe it's because she's the only daughter of the family. Her three previous kids were all sons. Ellie's her favorite, her little angel she never wanted to hurt Ellie.

Thomas was treated better than Joe, but he was still treated pretty badly. It's weird though. It's like Leslie had a special place in her heart that was filled with just pure hatred for her own son Joe. But I did read that with toxic narcissistic parents, they singled out one child to bully. Not because the child did anything wrong, or the child is less special than the others, but just straight up because every evil person, for some reason, much must have like an arched nemesis. Like a scapegoat, right? Yeah, even if it's your own child, it's like in the family structure, you need to have

one person that you hate. And because Leslie took it out the worst on Joe, William was always with Joe. Maybe Joe was his favorite. Maybe he felt like if he didn't attach to the other two kids, Leslie wouldn't bully them. Because she felt like they were her kids. I mean, it's hard to say, but one thing was clear, every single day that passed, they're more Leslie hated her own son Joe, and William couldn't take it anymore. He filed for divorce, and Leslie went out there and put the show of our life on. She told everyone how abandoned she felt, taking care of six children, oh by herself. Meanwhile, her husband is out there, fucking anything that moves. Yeah, that's how she made it seem.

And while the divorce was in motion, Marie got frickin pregnant with Williams' child. And it just added an entire container of salt into Leslie's open wound. And Leslie was something else. She would show up at Marie's house and physically beat her up knowing that Marie is like heavily pregnant. Something about Leslie, when she was mad, she had this crazy superhuman strength. Joe said it was like she's possessed by demons. He- how does a rather

petite woman have that level of strength it didn't even make sense but it led to Joe Marie William and even William sister Melissa. Joe's aunt on his dad's side. Always looking over their shoulders wherever they went you just never knew when Leslie would pop out and pop you in the face like she would just pounce on you. Side note Melissa, the aunt, she would even watch Joe while William was at work so that Joe wouldn't be alone with Leslie and this pissed off Leslie. She felt like Melissa was conspiring against her to let William cheat on her. In her mind it was a whole

conspiracy and she was the ultimate victim. She wasn't the one pushing people away with her, I don't know, child abuse. She was the ultimate victim and she was really sour about it. So much so that in a fit of anger and maybe a desperate attempt to get William to pay attention to her, Leslie threw the youngest child Thomas into a hot-scalding bath. He was hospitalized for weeks and needed endless skin grafts, which normally wouldn't social workers get involved while Leslie played the part perfectly. She told them that Thomas had grabbed a pot from the stove that had water, poured it all over

himself. She was beside herself. She felt so much pain and guilt and shame and disappointment in herself. She was disgusted with herself and the nurse is all sad around. It's okay, it's not your fault. You know, kids do the darnest things. I mean, insane. While Thomas was in the hospital, Leslie had the nerve to show up constantly at William's place of work, screaming at William about how abusive he is while the customers, you know, they're watching in shock, and she's crying, throwing a fit, and she would randomly crouch down, look at Joe and with a sick, just a sickly sweet voice.

She would say, come to mommy! As if she expected him to joyfully run into her arms, I mean this lady is out of her mind. It got to the point where William was backed into a corner and, you know, most of the guys working at the garage, they're guys. None of them were willing to forcibly remove Leslie from the premises. I mean, imagine the scene that she would make. She was a total caron. She'd be screaming, he touched me, he touched me, he's trying to kill me. William would have to call his sister, Melissa to come and drag her out. Melissa was willing to do anything for her brother. It seemed like everyone was willing to do anything for William. Melissa would come charging down the street,

and she would pull Leslie by the hair kicking her with all her strength. Okay, Melissa was a strong woman quite literally the only woman that could take down Leslie So it got to the point where Leslie was getting her ass beat so hard even just at the sight of Melissa. She would run off Let's go. Wow, but it wasn't good for business though Pussy power, but nobody wanted like a WMME fight in the parking lot of a business. And eventually Williams boss told him, yet get it together or I'm gonna have to let you go.

So it was on his best behavior on a cold windy day in February. He got ready for work and brought Joe in, like he always did. Just in case, Leslie showed up at Marise. And it was the day that Joe would never forget. It was the day that his dad died and he watched the whole thing. Is that when he started? Stop talking?

No. Oh. Yeah. So remember how Thomas had been burned in the past? Would Joe thought it was going to be like that? His dad was going to be at the hospital for a few weeks. Joe would be sad and scared that his protector was gone, but eventually things would go back to normal. Now obviously that's not what happened. Joe was with Marie at the time, and she wasn't even allowed into the hospital. Sure, William filed for divorce, but Leslie was still next to Kim.

And finally one day Marie came up to Joe and sat him down and said, Joe sweetie, sometimes when people are badly hurt. They die and they go to heaven to be with God. It's a beautiful place and they can look down on everyone that they love and they watch out for them from up there. Joe was like, okay, that's very cool, but when's Daddy coming home? It would be three days till Joe was finally allowed in the hospital with Marie. William was lying on a hospital bed completely bandaged up. Just all sorts of tubes coming out of his body. It didn't even look like William to little Joe.

He refused to believe that was his dad. Is an uncomfortable situation. Joe was told to say goodbye to his dad. He's five. He doesn't understand death. Maria standing next to him, trying to stay strong, and across the hospital bed is Leslie glaring at the two of them and wiping her tears because the nurse is in the room. The minute that the nurse laughed, Leslie was back to her disgusting self.

What the fuck are you doing here? He's my husband, not yours. Maria stayed quiet. Leslie gloated. The doctors told me there's no way he's my husband, not yours. Marie stayed quiet. Leslie gloated. The doctors told me there's no way he's gonna pull through him. They think it's time to turn the machines off, but the final decision is up to me because I'm his wife and not just some whore.

Marie cried, please Leslie, there might be a chance just don't give up hope. She laughed. He was no good as a husband before and he's certainly no good to me now. It's like Leslie was getting off on her power over Marie She said I'm his legal wife. You're just as horror. I make the decisions around here and I say turn him off And with that Marie was forced to leave the hospital without Joe and

Without William the police were called and there was nothing Marie could legally do. Jo was Leslie's. No matter how dangerous Leslie was, the police didn't care. They thought she was a victim, a grieving widow who found out her husband was cheating on her. So you would think that Leslie would care about Jo's feelings in grief after watching his dad die. I mean, at the end of the day, this is her own flesh and blood. She gave birth to this child. This is her son. No. She got down eye level with him and was like, Hey, your daddy is dead now and he's not coming back.

He's fucking dead. Do you know what that means? Has he gone to heaven? No. He's gone to hell where all the nasty people go. God said that he was no good, so now his body is going to be turned into ashes. You know, it was God who threw the cigarette in the gas to burn your daddy to ashes. And just don't think you're anything special

because you were daddy's favorite. And just because you saw him go up and fucking flames, you're not special at all, you're nothing and I'm gonna prove it to you, just you fucking weight. She's saying this to a five year old child that happens to be her five year old child. Joe didn't have to wait to find out. He found out what his life was to be her five-year-old child. Jo didn't have to wait to find out.

He found out what his life was going to be like the second he got back home. I mean, it was just a blur of abuse. So he had three older brothers. They were his half siblings. And there was Wally, the oldest, who was nearly 18 now, and then the twins, Larry and Barry. They weren't actually twins. They're like a year apart, but they're literally just evil little henchmen twins.

I just see them as little twins with the little devil horns. It's like they happen to share one brain cell between the two of them. Larry and Barry did whatever their mommy told them to do, and they took pleasure in it. They were just as sick as she was. Now, don't get me wrong, she would beat them too, but they like to take their anger out on the younger siblings. Wally the oldest son, not so much. He knew what happened in their house wasn't normal.

He knew it was second twisted, but he was too scared to stand up to his mom. So in front of his mom, he was mean to Joe because he didn't want to get beat up, but the minute that she was gone, he was nice to Joe. The first punishment that Joe had to get used to was eating under the glass breakfast table.

He wasn't allowed to sit at the table. So the family would sit around. They fed him scraps like a dog. Those were just how most of his meals were fed to him growing up. He would sit under the glass table, staring up at them, staring at the food that he craved while his stomach rumbled. And whenever they were quote, generous enough to throw him scraps, they would take the bottom of their dirty shoe and dig their heel into the food. so it was basically smashed onto the dirty tile and if they were feeling extra sick they would force Joe to lick it off the ground. Sometimes they would even spit on the glob of food before making him lick it off the ground

with no utensils. Leslie would scream at him, you inherited the dirty disease from your filthy fucking father and I don't want you infecting the rest of us. I mean just imagine how damaging this type of punishment is to anybody but someone that young and impressionable? And Joe was only ever allowed to wear his undies at home. That was it. Leslie said he didn't deserve to wear his clothes at home. He wasn't allowed to bathe unless somebody was coming over and they would have to pretend to be the perfect family. Or Joe had to go outside somewhere which which was almost never, which I never understand not bathing as a punishment.

Because isn't it even more painful for people around him to, like, is it just you're so evil that you don't even mind yourself being in pain? If that can inflict somebody else's amounts of pain? It's so bizarre to me. Side note, William's funeral was a whole situation of its own. Marie was paying for the whole thing because Leslie refused to pay for it. So Marie was paying for it and the only thing was she was allowed to go. But Joe wasn't allowed to attend.

So Marie was attending as a friend of Williams. But Joe wasn't allowed because Leslie couldn't risk Joe cleaning to Marie in front of everyone, so she came up with some excuse about how he was so traumatized he couldn't make it, which is true, he was traumatized, but she didn't care. And in those moments, Wally, the oldest son, he tried to be a good half-brother. He would whisper to Joe, don't listen to mommy, she's wrong. Your dad's gonna have a not-help. Which side note, you would think that a house like this, I don't know, you were probably envisioning a mess, like that's what I was envisioning. Like a hoarder's

house type of situation, but it wasn't. Leslie was freaking obsessed with cleaning, that's all she did. She woke up at the crack of dawn and she cleaned and dusted every dustless surface, re-vacuumed every single floor, every single morning, and that made things so much unbearably worse, because if the kids so much had sat on a piece of furniture and left an imprint, not even a stain. Just a pillow deflated a little because they sat on it. She would beat them an inch of their lives. She had this great big formal living room that nobody was allowed to use. Like you're not even allowed to sit on the couches. The kids were not allowed to sit on basically any furniture, but the floor.

It was ridiculous. Why even have the furniture? It doesn't make sense to me. And this just added to Leslie being the victim in everyone's eyes. I mean, look at this amazing mother! Look at this widow! Look at how clean she keeps her home. She cares so much even though her husband is gone and she's got six kids. And then it happened. After beating after beating, being thrown against the wall, choked, punched in the face, head, stomach, arms, legs,

Joe tried to talk and his tongue started stumbling. He had never experienced this before. He was kind of terrified. He realized that every time he tried to talk, he would stutter. And the more he tried, the more he would stutter. Wally was the first to notice and he went to his mom. Mom, I'm worried about Joe. I think there's something wrong with him. Yeah, what's fucking wrong now, huh?

He's not talking, mom. Wally probably isn't infection or something. Get out of here. A week later, Joe still wasn't talking and his stutter started getting worse. And by the end of the week, Joe still wasn't talking and his stutter started getting worse. And by the end of the week, Joe felt odd. His brain felt completely out of control over his voice.

He couldn't even form a single word. He couldn't even control the sounds that were coming out. So he could make noises, his vocal cords were fine, but he had no control over what kind of noises he made. So there was a disconnect. He couldn't even form a single word. There was no yes, no help, nothing. Leslie thought that he was trying to get attention, but after torturing him extensively and realizing that he still wasn't talking, she realized, oh my god, I got to do something about it. So they went to the

doctor where Leslie had the perfect mom explanation. She wiped her tears from the corners of her eyes. She's a widow with six kids. Joe had seen his father die. He was traumatized. And now he won't talk. She just wants to help him. Her voice would break while talking and explaining. And the doctor looked at her sympathetically. You know, they were just very, very close.

Joe took it really, really hard. While Mrs. Peters, I believe Joe has been struck mute from the shock of what he's witnessed. Yeah, well, you know, William was such a good husband, good father, and it's such a tragedy. How long will it be before he can talk again and go back to his normal, happy self? Man, it could be a short-term condition, or it could be long-term. We just have to see how it develops. Well, after our best.

And with that Leslie went home happier than ever. Sure, she was annoyed because now Joe could only communicate by, quote, pointing and grunting, as she would say. But at least he could never tell on her for being abusive. He was completely in her power, completely. But for Joe, it was a nightmare. For nearly five years, he would never speak a single word and being unable to communicate even when you can communicate it's frustrating and annoying and

it's traumatizing to go through what he's going through but when you can't verbalize how you feel or tell anyone about it I mean it just got so bad and so Joe would start acting out once in a while. And that's a litified to the police that Leslie was the amazing widower with this troubled child. She was the victim. And now that William was gone, Joe was the new villain.

Someone had to take his place. Living in a house like this was just sick. It wasn't just Joe suffering. Leslie would gather all the kids in the formal living room and they would push the furniture to the sides. And Leslie would order the kids to wrestle each other in front of her while she laughed like a cheerleader, like she was watching, I don't know, a boxing fight. Yeah, and she would never let them go easy on each other. She said that they had to keep going until somebody bled. And then the one that was bleeding would be dragged out by the other siblings and a new

one would fight the champion. She said it was her way of toughening them up for the real world. Do you think the real world is easy and simple and you can, I don't know, talk out your feelings absolutely not. This lady just had sick bloodless, that's all really. And this was her having fun. Imagine when she's pissed, like it was bad. She would grab Thomas who was like, what, five at the time? She would grab her youngest son by the legs, swing him around and let go when he slammed up against the wall

and fell to the floor. It's like her strength was superhuman. But for Joey was still different. Thomas and these other kids they had to do something to warrant her wrath, but for Joe even I'm just existing, him just sitting there would send her off into this rageful fury, maybe he had his dad's mannerisms, maybe he looked like his dad, or maybe just the idea of his existence reminded her of Marie and William, even though this isn't even Marie's child, it's her child, she birthed him, She didn't care. Even when he didn't talk, because he couldn't anymore, she still found reason to beat him up. She would say, are you mocking me by whimpering? Or he would point at something and she'd be like, stop fucking pointing,

and would beat him up. Jo learned very quickly that it was smartest to not even look at his mom. He felt like a hated animal who had his head kicked and punched almost at every opportunity, not just by his mom, but his older brothers, Larry and Barry as well. They realized the more sadistic that they were with Joe, the more their mom would praise them. The worst part though, like a lot of captives say, was the boredom. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there?

Aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's gonna catch us? What a police! It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform, we're going to want some drug dealers, and I know how to do it really well.

This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100% I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man but I love being that 30 motherf***er.

Joe wasn't allowed any toys or anything stimulating he He wasn't allowed to touch anything, so all day every day he just sat there staring at the window or staring at the wall. He was heavily underestimulated, he couldn't even talk, he couldn't sing, he couldn't really keep his mind on anything, and he just felt isolated and frustrated. He didn't even have a mattress or pillow to sleep with at night, just a single unwashed thin blanket and he would sleep on the floor of his brother's room. But even then, Larry and Barry hated sharing the bedroom floor with Joe, and soon enough, due to his stench, which like whose fault is that, Leslie decided her son was going to have to live in the tiny little cupboard under the stairs. In the basement. So literally

like Harry Potter but worse because it was in the basement. It was dark. There was no light inside. Just a tiny filthy mattress. Spiders crawling everywhere. The cold concrete floor and just pure darkness. Joe was constantly in just his underwear. And this is where he would live for the next three years. Trapped in this tiny little cell, he could barely move around. For some reason, even though Joe never showed up for school, no social worker, no teacher took notice. Aunt Melissa was chased away from Leslie

after William died, so nobody, nobody had heard from Joe and nobody cared to call the police or do something about it. But Joe existed because Marie was getting government assistance for taking care of Joe and her other kids, so he was there on the record. But there was no record of him at school, so why did that not ring any alarms? Nobody cared to find out what was going on with him, so he just laid there day in, day out, trying to hold as young as best as possible.

There was no bathroom. Sometimes he wouldn't be let out for a full day, and there were so many times he genuinely worried, and wonder, is this how I'm going to die of hunger and thirst? Larry and Barry would bring one water bottle to last three to four days, and most of the time they would superglue the lid shut, or they would fill it with some oil or something nasty. Why did they superglue it? Because Joe wasn't strong enough to open the lid then. So he would have to chew through the plastic with his teeth to drink water. Which it wasn't easy and it wasn't painless because Joe's teeth were super super weak due to malnutrition. So any sign of stress, I mean they would just fall out.

As for food, Larry and Barry would typically bring it down to the cellar in a dog bowl, and they would usually spit on it first or throw it on the ground to stomp on it, or they would have salt and peppered it so much it was basically an edible. They just always look for new ways to be sadistic and evil. Sometimes Joe would wet himself from the trauma or just holding his bladder in for too long, and Leslie would take his underpants so that he was completely naked and freezing down there. When Leslie came down to take her anger out on him, literally she kept him down there as like a punching bag, and she would just shit talk William. I mean, how does someone have so much never-ending disgusting rage in their heart, I don't get it.

It doesn't even make sense. She would punch Joe while screaming. Your father was a rotten man, a rotten fucking husband, and you're just as fucking bad as him, and he's in hell. Every time I look at you, it reminds me of him. You're a no good little bastard, and I fucking hate you. If I had a gun, I would shoot you dead. You're the child of a deceitful cheating dead bastard. Hey, Joe, speak if you want me to stop. So when Joe was alone, he would cry and pray in his mind. I'm a good boy God. Please take me and let me be with Dad. Sometimes he would sit there and fantasize about how he would have these nice parents

let love him, and they would live this nice happy life, and he would be jerked out of the fantasies because he was lying in his own filth in a dark freezing cellar, and his stomach was painfully hungry. Finally, Joe was given a bucket to defecate it, and sometimes he was left alone for so long that the bucket would be completely full when someone came down. Wally seemed to be the only one that would come and empty it for him. Wally was the only reason Joe believes he didn't lose his mind during those years. Wally was just as terrified of Leslie, his own mother, but he knew what she was doing was evil.

Whenever Leslie was out, he would sneak down there, sit on the mattress to read to Joe. Joe never said anything, but now as an adult, he realizes how thoughtful Wally was. Because all the stories that Wally would tell Joe or all the books that he read him had to do about boys becoming heroes in the face of adversity. Maybe that was Wally's way of giving him hope. He would encourage Joe and say things like, you're nearly seven now, Joe. It's time for you to be brave, okay? Wally was the only reason Joe's language skills stayed somewhat intact. Nobody ever talked

to Joe unless they were cursing at him, and he wasn't able to talk. He had no education, he didn't go to school, he was in a vacuum, he had nothing, no books to read, no TV to listen to, no radio. Wally was the only one that could teach him. Even though it was super limited, it was something. And every time they heard their mom come, Wally would try to leave, but Joe would grab onto him tight because Joe is scared, okay? He doesn't want to be alone again. And Wally would turn around rushed, but he would try to be as nice as possible. You know, once your brother getting in trouble, do you? He's gotta let me go, Joe. And with that, Joe would be alone in the cold dark again. And if Wally was ever caught, which he was a few times, like bringing food down, he tried

to explain to Joe. If mom thinks I'm being nice to you, she's not going to let me come see you anymore. And then I can't help you. That's why I have to be mean to you when they're around. Side note, one time Wally was caught trying to bring cake down for Joe, and Leslie was like, what the fuck are you doing with that? And he lied. It's nothing. I was gonna eat them in front of Joe and I was just gonna tease him, you know? She didn't believe him

and he was beaten for it and Joe could hear it all. And then the day came while he got a girlfriend and Joe was young. He didn't know what that meant at the time. In fact, he thought it was kind of gross like you who wants a girlfriend. But soon he realized that Wally's visits would be fewer and fewer and then one day Wally told him that he was moving out. Obviously Joe felt pain and grief, but he was thankful for Wally and he couldn't say that he wouldn't have done

the same thing if he was Wally. That was the last time you would ever see Wally. What? Ever? Yeah. And then one day out of nowhere, Joe was brought upstairs, cleaned up, put in clothes, apparently the whole family was being summoned to be introduced to Mommy's new boyfriend, and she wanted all the kids to call him daddy, which is weird because they hadn't even met

him yet. And in walks, their uncle, Melissa's husband, William's sister's husband. What? Yeah, everyone was confused, and when Leslie punched Thomas in the face for not wanting to call him daddy, it was clear that this daddy was no savior. His name was Amani, and he didn't care that Joe was being kept naked in a dark hole. Joe had no idea what was going on. But he later found out that this was his mom's big plan to get revenge on

Melissa. Steal her husband. What? Joe had hoped that Amani would see how he was living. He would go home, tell Aunt Melissa and she would come and save him. That's what he thought. But the reality was not that. In fact, Amani would be his first repist. Amani was the type of man that could have sex with anything or anyone he could. And he lied to Aunt Melissa, he was seeing Leslie behind her back. He loved to come over because for him, there was a special prisoner downstairs that couldn't say no to him, that he could rape without anyone caring. Of course he tested the waters, I'm sure. And once he realized that Leslie would not freak out of you, Joe, he made his move.

At first, a Monty would lay next to Joe on the mattress, whispering in his ear that he was a good boy, while rubbing himself against him. At first, Joe tried to tell him to stop, that he didn't like it, and he just screamed at him, don't say no to me, boy. Grabbed his private parts, gave them a harsh twist and it was incredibly painful. Joe was terrified to ever say no again. And after each assault, he would turn and say, if you tell anyone about this, I will stab your eyes out and chop off your willy.

And then he would leave Joe in the dark cold again. Soon the rubbing escalated to forcing Joe to perform sex acts on him. And if you thought Leslie had any morals, you'd be wrong because sometimes Leslie was there. Forcing Joe to do what she told him, like she would dictate what he needed to do to her boyfriend's slush. Joe's uncle, Leslie would beat Joe while a Monia assaulted him and they would both laugh when they were done and called Joe a dirty bastard before walking out, leaving him in the cold dark. And soon it was pretty clear that Leslie was willing to do anything to make a money happy.

She started coming downstairs before a money would come to clean the toilet bucket to spray air freshener for a money to rape her son. I mean, just think about it. She's prepping the room to make it more enjoyable for someone who was reaping her child. Sometimes Amani would drag Joe upstairs to assault him in the bathroom, and Joe would see a mirror for the first time in years. And he said that he was shocked. He'd look like a pile of bones, he looked haunted. Amani would come to see him every day,

and it wasn't long until he started reaping him. And Joe would be in so much pain. He would be shaking and almost convulsing in pain afterwards, but nobody cared. Imagine the mental torture of being stuck with that. I mean, even when you convert, believe, speak, you're not believed. I mean, it's hard to speak out. But what if you physically can't speak? You can't sign. You can't write. How would you communicate this, Tony Buddy? How would you communicate the level of torture, the mental, emotional, physical, sexual torture that you've been put through every single day? From five years old to eight years old, Joe was in the cellar,

and literally nobody noticed that a full child had disappeared off the face of the earth. Everyone else went to school except for Joe. Nobody even realized he was gone. Nobody came looking for him until one day Thomas was at school. And he mentioned to his teacher that he had a fourth older brother. Now his teacher knew Wally, Larry, and Barry, and just started curiosity, and not really that curious. You're just like, oh well, do you know your brother's name? What's your brother's name? My brother's name is Joe. Okay, well what school does Joe go to? Oh he doesn't go to school. So what went from a light conversation turned alarming and the teacher went to the school board about it and they decided to call Leslie in.

And there she was the perfect mom. Ah yes, Joe Joe. Joe has problems. He's mute and he's very disruptive. He's a problem child. Well why haven't you enrolled him in the school? Like I said, he's very disruptive. He's a problem child. Well, why haven't you enrolled him in the school? Like I said, he's quite destructive. I couldn't inflict him on the other children. No one can control Joe No one, but he's my Joe. He's just, you know, he saw his daddy die, you know?

Okay, Leslie, but we're gonna need to come out and the social worker needs to meet Joe if that's all right with you Yes, of course, of course. So Joe was pulled out of the cellar, washed up, and threatened before the social worker came. Leslie yelled at Joe for just shaking and fear. And when the doorbell rang, Joe's had spun. His mom had transformed into a new woman. Like the way she was talking, the way she told stories of Joe and his disturbances, Joe even started to question his own reality.

I mean, she sounded so confident, even here to question whether or not he knew the real truth. But Joe did something that day. That would cement the way social workers looked at him. Which is the social workers fault not his. He was terrified, he was scared, he didn't know how to react, he hadn't been socialized, he was angry, frustrated. This was his cry for help and nobody took it In fact the social workers minds

Conferring to them that Leslie was telling the truth. They were dealing with a troubled boy Because Joe bit the social workers hand in would I let go? I do see what you mean Leslie, but I'm afraid he must go to school It's the law. There's a lot we can do to help him and to help you, but he must I know it's just You know for him seeing his dad burst into flames, it just did something to him, and that's why he's so disturbed. He's a terribly fussy eater too. That's why he's so thin and sickly looking. He won't eat anything, and he's become so malnourished and it's teeth-a-brotted. Yes, yes, we know Leslie, okay? You're a good mother, but you've messed up keeping him home, trying to deal with all

of this on your own. We can help you, that's what we're here for. You need to trust us to do the best thing for him and for you, and for the rest of your family. And that's how Joe was admitted into school with a note that he was a very disturbed and aggressive child, and all the teacher started treating him like one without ever questioning why. And sure, Joe was out of the cellar now, but he was still forced under the table to eat scraps, and if he thought he was going to make friends at school, he was wrong because

kids are sometimes more cruel than adults. On weekends, Joe was back in the cellar, and at least in the cellar, he knew that he was at a site. And most of the time, he hoped, at a site out of mind. It was hard to firm upstairs, yet to make himself small, to blend in, to disappear. But they always found a reason to beat him. The only exception now was that they wouldn't be able to beat his face just in case the

teacher saw. Also this is when Barry and Larry started being Joe. No. Um, apparently Larry and Barry had been engaged and incest with one another using each other to What? Yeah, rid of their sexual arges and now they were taking turns raping Joe. When they weren't raping him, Amani would drag Joe to his bed and rape him. How old are the brothers?

Like 15, 16. Oh my god. And they never tried to hide it. Like, a money even. Like, everything was done in plain view of everyone in the house. I mean, I guess nobody cared. The house carried on as if it was completely normal that full-grown men were being an eight-year-old boy.

In his own mother's bed at that. Like, things were clearly not okay in the house. And at school, there were small moments of kindness that Joe felt like he loved his speech teacher I mean he couldn't read or write at the time he was really behind he had no way of communicating to adults that could potentially help him But she was always patient and she might be a big part of the reason why he learned to talk again Even just being in school though assaulted every one of his senses He had been in a dark cellar with no light, no distractions, no stimulation, and now he was getting hit with it all at once.

I mean, it was a lot, it was overwhelming. Kids made fun of the fact that he couldn't speak. Like, they thought it was amusing. They're like, what do you mean you can't talk? They stared at him like he was a science experiment. But at least you could eat as hard out during lunch, and he could drink all the water he wanted. Joe was never allowed to learn sports though, because he was allowed to change in the locker rooms in case people saw his scars.

His mom made excuses that he had a weak heart. The occasional bruises that were called out Leslie would explain it away by saying that the boys were always rough-housing. Nobody doubted her, not even once. And then the other assaults came. It was no longer just Larry Berry and Amani. There was a new man that came down to the seller one weekend. Amani's friend, who was introduced as Uncle Douglas. He was a stumpy looking bald-middled-aged man who had a stink smell to him and horrible bad breath. He wanted to be friend Little Joe, and Joe was nervous, he was skeptical, but the man came bearing jelly beans, and he hadn't had sweets in years. That weekend he was

starved the whole time, he eagerly ate up the jelly bean. Uncle Douglas laughed, well he liked that, don't you? Then passed him another one. Joe was skeptical at any adult that was nice to him, but he wasn't about to give up free jelly beans. And then another, and another, and Joe realized that Uncle Douglas had a really nasty smell to him. Just really nasty, but it didn't phase him, he was used to nasty smells, and besides he was nice. Then he asked, Joe should we play a game? Joe was over the moon, he felt like he hadn't had this much fun since his dad passed away.

So he nodded. Can I take some pictures of you to show my wife? Is that okay? Joe remembered that his dad used to take pictures of you to show my wife? Is that okay? Joe remembered that his dad used to take pictures of him and that filled his heart with joy and he nodded again. And the first few pictures were just Joe laying on the bed and he couldn't help but wonder if this nice, smelly, balding man was gonna adopt him.

Maybe that's why he would want to show pictures to his wife. He kind of liked the idea of it. But in between snapping pictures and giving him more jelly beans, Uncle Douglas suggested he take off more and more clothes. And it wasn't until they got to the pants that Joe's alarm bells immediately went off. And that's when it felt like the whole world stopped. And Uncle Douglas could see the shift, and he laughed, don't be shy, it's just for fun.

And then he threatened, don't be naughty, be a good boy or I'll call your daddy. Joe shook his head no, and he felt the sting. And blood come out of his mouth. Uncle Douglas had slept him so hard he was noxideways. Then the door flung open and Amani joined to beat Joe into submission and he screamed at him, just can't do what you're fucking told, can you boy? You're gonna learn one of these days.

And with one final kick, Joe was left bleeding and they get on the floor. Later, Amani got up and peed directly on his face while laughing. They're St.R.U. This was a turning point in Joe's life because after Uncle Douglas, more men were brought down to rape Joe, usually during the weekends or the holidays. If nine-year-old Joe ever resisted or put up a fight, he would be beat by grown men. All it did was delay the inevitable, which was the rape, and he'd be raped, and he'd be assaulted, and he'd be in more pain. One of the men that came down

to beat him happened to be a police officer. The officer, Joe, and Amani triumphantly told him, if you ever go to any of my friends at the police station and tell them what goes on in here, I'm going to hear about it. And I'll come back here and kill you. Do you get it? Is it actually a cop? We don't know. Joe thought, if police men were out here doing this sort of thing to children, who could even turn to?

And since he couldn't speak a right, how could he even tell them anything anyway? And where was Joe's mom doing all of this? She was making an LLC. No, but really, in her mind. She thought, wait a minute, I let all these men wait my child and what? I'm not gonna make a dollar out of it. She decided it was time that Joe was gonna go to work.

Joe was confused, she kept humming around him, Joe, you're gonna make me so much money. Joe, you don't get it, do you? Obviously, he didn't, because kids can't make money, they can't have a job, it doesn't make sense. As he got older, he realized these men were paying Leslie to rip Joe and record it all. But in Joe's traumatized mind, he felt like, if I at least make money, maybe she'll stop hating me.

Maybe she'd let me have a real room or some warm food once in a while. But it wasn't like that. Instead, Joe was taken to a creepy house every single weekend without fail, driven by Uncle Douglas, who would threaten him with a knife in his pocket and if Joe tried to run, he would kill him. That's what he told him. And when he entered the musty house where none of the windows would open, the doors were

locked from me inside. Joe saw other children sitting there. Mainly little boys, some little girls. All of them would have their own filthy mattress in one of the rooms, which were locked from the outside. They would get to rest. Sometimes they were made sandwiches where the bread was a little bit moldy, and they would be called into the rooms to have sex with either an adult,

while they was being filmed to be sold, or they would be forced into doing things with each other again to be filmed. Even the bathroom was used as some sort of sick filming location. They would force the children to do disgusting things after the forced assault. They're being taped mind you and they would force the children to lick their lips and smile and say they enjoyed it. Joe would do as he was told, trying to look happy, but he was always holding back tears. And then the men would tell him how filthy he was because he enjoyed it so much. They said he was always holding back tears. And then the men would tell him how filthy he was

because he enjoyed it so much. They said he was a gross little boy and nasty for wanting to do things like that. Joe said he felt sick with disgusted everything and he was terrified at what was to come. He felt like he couldn't take any more pain. But if he or the other children couldn't do as they

were told or didn't or didn't do it exactly the way the disgusting adults wanted or they took too long to do it, they were dragged into a room and someone would grab their private parts and twist them until the pain was unbearable. And for the next few years, four years, really, Joe would be spending most of his holidays and weekends in this house with other kids who were being raped and forced into starring in child pornography. A lot of the men that came to see the children and assault them were the same men every single weekend. They all seemed respectable, a lot of them had wedding bands, but disgustingly they always knew what they wanted. They even knew what expressions they wanted the children to have while they did what they did, even down to how

they wanted the lighting. Joe said it was disgusting. Some of the men wanted the kids to call them names like mummy and daddy, but they were all men. Sometimes the boys were to perform with other older girls in the house, and if they couldn't maintain an erection, they would be punished. Joe would listen to the conversations of these men, and it was clear that a lot of them had families of their own. They had children of their own. They had children of their own. And yet here they were treating children like this. It's like Joe said it's like they didn't even see them as children. They saw them as subhuman and for some reason they convinced themselves that these children wanted it. And what's wild is that none of these children were kidnapped. None of them were human trafficked.

None of them were abducted. They were all due to go back to school on Mondays. They were all sold by their guardians. By their parents. By their grandparents. They were sold by those that were supposed to protect them. What's crazy is that Joe felt safer in Douglas's child pornography dungeon than he did his own house. Because at least he could wash up here and there and he would get moldy food and he was allowed to rest once in a while if he did his job.

Joe said he learned how to survive. Those years he felt like a captive animal. And if you'd think that Joe's life was getting any better because he was bringing in money, you would be wrong. He was still beaten by his mom. For example, whenever there was a clock toilet, his mom would force him to reach his bare hand in there to flush it down. He was treated as subhuman by his own mother and now by all of these men. And then Joe started talking again. But look, nothing changed. He was still being assaulted. The other children in the CP dungeon, I mean, they were able to verbally communicate. But Leslie children in the CP dungeon, I mean, they were able to verbally communicate, but

Leslie liked the other parents they had beaten these kids with so much fear and so much submission. I do think that there was a police officer involved considering how none of the kids went to the police. I think when you witness something like that, I mean, who do you tell? You tell a random adult that you think you can trust, then what are they going to do? They're going to call the police and if there's someone in the police that's raping you every weekend, and then one day in high school, Joe had a thought, a wild thought. He thought, I could just walk out of here. I could walk out of school and pretend to walk home,

but not go home. I could live in the woods or something. And once that little seed, that little idea was planted in his mind, he couldn't go home that day. He could not go back to prison. So that day without any preparation at all, he walked out of school and walked into the woods. He read survival books, he, you know, he's in his teenagers at this point.

He thought it would be okay, but it was really tough. Which side note please go read the book because the details are insane a bunch of kids found out like random kids in a different town That he had run to a bunch a bunch of rich kids They found out that he had run away and that he was living in like a shed in the woods that he had found like an empty shed that was super dusty And I know they meant well, but they treated him like some sort of novel And I know they meant well, but they treated him like some sort of novel project. They wanted to hear about his adventures. They were like so fascinated by his abuse stories, and they got excited at the idea of sneaking him into their houses and sneaking food out to him. And to them it was like an adventure, but to Joe it was his life.

And one of their parents found out and had the cops called on Joe. He was arrested and returned back to his mom, who was playing the perfect mom act, and she nearly killed him. When he was finally allowed back at school again, he had to do it again, he ran away again. And so for a while, his life was running away, being dragged back, running away, being dragged back over and over again.

Joe had tried to explain to the police that his mom beats him and nobody believed him. They had seen his file, he was labeled as this disturbed young troublemaker and they believed that Leslie was the amazing mom. So Joe even resorted to threatening violence against his own mom. He thought if the police didn't think that she would kill him,

maybe they would think he would kill her. He would scream, if you take me back there, I'm gonna fucking kill her and I promise you. Joe even tried to tell the police that his brother Barry had raped him, which is true. Joe didn't tell them about Douglas or anyone else. He just wanted a reason to not be home. He didn't want to... Joe said he was embarrassed honestly. And Barry was briefly arrested, and Leslie somehow convinced the police that Joe was the liar. Yeah, the police, social workers, everyone decided he was a liar. And nobody tried to figure out why he was the way he was.

No child is born disturbed or a troublemaker. So what the hell happened? They didn't care. They didn't care to protect Joe. I think it's, you know, as humans, and I feel like we know this so much with true crime, but as humans, it's like, people are programmed to think that a victim looks in acts a certain way, but in the real world with how complex human minds are

and how people deal with trauma, nobody acts like that. So Joe is acting out, he's stealing, he's doing all of these things and people are like, he's just a shitty person. There's no way he's telling the truth because he's a little thief. Like, how does that even make sense? He's a kid. Meanwhile, Leslie got pregnant with a Monty's baby and he was having none of that. So he went back

to just solely being with Aunt Melissa, abandoning Leslie, and this is when Leslie started being sweet to Joe again for the first time in his life. She wanted him back home and she said, Joe, it's gonna be different this time. She wanted money. Joe was old enough to get a job and make her money. He was in his late teens. And that's all she cared about. She still lost her temper and she would slap him around, but it wasn't nearly as intimidating as before because Joe could walk. He could walk away. And he knew that. They started this new vicious cycle where Joe would go back after Leslie said a few nice things and then walk out when he realized that she would never change and she would never

love him. A lot of people were confused at why he kept going back and he said, I think because I wanted to believe I had a mom that loved me. I tried to convince myself that she was telling the truth and things would be different and that she would accept me. There must be something so instinctive inside of us when we think about our moms. Something that makes us want to believe that they love us, despite any evidence to the contrary. And so with that, Joe never went to the police

about all the allegations. He felt like nobody would believe him, and as he got older, he had more troubles, you know, he was drinking, he was just on this path of self-destruction, even after he walked away from his mom for good. And then finally he got married. And even then, he was still self-sabotaging, the whole relationship, but his wife stuck around. And now they have five kids. And Joe says he works his whole life

to be the kind of parent he wished he had. He thinks and he hopes that he's the type of dad his dad would have been if he were still alive. And the message he leaves with us is he said when we read about these child pornography rings or these pedophilia rings or children being abused and pictures being sold. You know, a lot of people go into this fearful state where they're like, oh my God, like what if that's my niece or my child? Or, you know, somebody I know that gets kidnapped

and sold into these human trafficking things, which yes, it does happen. But he said that most of the children in child pornography are not kidnapped, they are not abducted from their homes, they are sold into the world by their very own parents, the ones that are there to protect them. That is terrifying. I mean, I think that should be a wake-up call. So nobody was punished? No. I mean, he tried to tell them about his own brother of being him and they didn't believe him. Who would bring, who would believe this story of Uncle Douglas and please go pick up his book.

Give it a read. There's a lot of detail on stories in there that I didn't cover and it's just it's so heartbreakingly raw and emotional and I I love reading um well love is the wrong word but I think it's really important for us to listen to these stories from the people who have lived through it because I think it just breaks us from that cycle of expecting victims to act a certain way because once you hear Joe talk about it You're like, well, that makes sense why he would act this way That's the story of Joe Peters and the Inla School in South Korea. That was a really tough one to get through. Please stay safe and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye!