Rotten Mango - #8- The Coca-Cola Torture Murder (Case of Sylvia Likens)

Episode Date: July 30, 2020

On her stomach, she was branded with the words "I'm a prostitute and proud of it"  She was tortured by Coca-Cola bottles and knives for months.. This might ruin soda for you forever To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing intense to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or paid subscription starting at 1299 per month. Take 5,200.

12. And I have to go pee because I've been doing this 12,000 times ready. That is the sound of a crisp Coca-Cola. I'm just kidding, it's the sound of a Kirkland water, but today, if you are drinking a Coca-Cola, you might want to put your bottle down and walk as far away from your Coca-Cola bottle as possible. Honestly, if you've been thinking about quitting soda for a while, this sounds like a sponsorship it's not.

If you've been thinking about quitting soda for a while now, then this might be the way for you. This entire story is just going to make you really upset with life and really upset with Coca-Cola by no fault of their own. Like this is not Coca-Cola's fault. This has nothing to do with Coca-Cola marketing, but this is essentially the Coca-Cola murder. That was supposed to be the sound of a Coca-Cola bottle opening. Wow, wow, wow, we've really upped our production quality. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Any time.

So this story has been highly requested for me to cover. And it's, you know, it's commonly known as the American Junco Ferrado case because of just how similar it is in the ways that people, I mean, someone that is so young, 16 years old, is kept captive for months and months and months. I mean, people knew about it. This girl who was being tortured inside of this house of horrors, she went to school every single day.

We're gonna be talking about the case of Sylvia Likens. I mean, I feel like if you are into true crime, this name is just gonna bring you Just like a gut punch of emotions immediately like if you know anything about this case You're about to get punched in the gut. It's intense So a mom is encouraging kids neighborhood kids and even her own children to be the biggest pieces of shit that ever walked to this planet and to actively sexually, physically, emotionally, and mentally torture a 16-year-old girl that is under her care.

That's her kid? It's not her kid, but she wants her kids to torture that kid. Oh, that's weird. Yeah, in order to understand this, we kind of need to start with Sylvia. And how does she even end up in this house of horrors? What is Sylvia's life like? And I feel like kind of understanding her childhood will really help you understand why she does a lot of things the way that she did.

And we'll get into it. So Sylvia Likens, her parents were carnival workers. So she was born to Lester, her dad, and Betty. They weren't like a Cirque du Soleil type of shit. Like they weren't just making good money, just flying around performers who were just the stars of the shows. They were kind of poor. They were just trying to make ends meet

by selling candy, some beer, and soda at Carnival stands. And what they would do is they would travel from Carnival to Carnival from Carnival to sell these items and they were just really struggling. They were just constantly on the road. The dad Lester, he had an eighth grade education, so he didn't really have a lot of job opportunities at the time and they ended up having five children together. Now, Sylvia is the third child and this, I mean I don't even know if this is pertinent to the story. I just thought it was fascinating, but she was the only non-twinn in the family. So she has two older siblings by the name of Diana and Daniel, and they were twins.

And then Sylvia was born, and then right after Sylvia, Jenny and Benny, who were also twins, were born. Wow. What are the odds of that? I know. That's why I thought it was kind of fascinating. But really, we're just going to be focusing mainly on Sylvia and Jenny, her younger sister, and the older sister Diana is somewhat pertinent to the story, but Daniel and Benny are not really a part of this story, because the main reason is that as they were traveling through all of these circuses or these carnivals, they didn't necessarily want to take the youngest two daughters. Diana was just kind of living her own life. She had a place to stay. She didn't always stay with the families, so they weren't really worried about her

coming. The two boys, they were okay with the boys coming, but the two young girls, they were like, this this carnival life ain't for you, boo boo. And so they were just constantly always looking for a place to just let Sylvia and Jenny hang out for the entire summer while they go working because that's how they pay their bills. And Jenny, the younger sibling, she is just kind of with Sylvia, the entire story. Now, to give you some background information on Jenny, she has polio. It gave her noticeable limp. She had to wear like this steel brace on one of her legs. So she was just pretty weak.

She was physically weak. She was a little bit insecure because of all of this. I mean, when you're young and you've got this like steel brace on your leg, it's not like the most attractive thing. You're not going to be the most popular kid. And so she was super shy. She was just timid, insecure, and Sylvia was really protective over her. And to the point where she was just so friendly, so confident,

and they even nicknamed her Cookie. Nicknamed the Sylvia cookie. Yeah, Lucius Linus confused as well. So, so she was nicknamed cookie and she was always smiling but she was always smiling with her mouth closed because she was missing a front tooth. Yeah. One of the best teeth. Yeah, that's what I heard. We're on the straight. Like missing as permanently or? Yeah, MIA. Like missing it. Like, yeah, I'm sorry. I mean, I don't know what you. Okay. Yeah, M.I.A. Like missing it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. I mean, I don't know what you...

Okay, okay. You haven't even been a fan by like a Missing Tooth Report. Okay, got it. That was such a... That's really sad. I know, but that's the part that you had so many questions about. I will tell you something, nori-as-crimes. And you're just like, oh my god.

But that is the one where you like, well, hold on, I need to further elaborate. I need a whole, I need case work done on this. Yeah, kind of, kind of. Was it a runaway? Or this is really grim humor, I'm sorry, this is how we deal. So Sylvia was kind of like the caretaker of Jenny. They weren't allowed to go on these little carnival trips with their family. And I mean, from all it seems, it seems like they had a relatively good relationship with their family members, the rest of their

family. It didn't seem like they were heavily abused. It just probably was the toll of everything else in life, the toll of not being able to put food on the table, the kids worrying about things like that. And so from a young age, Sylvia was just very proactive. She started babysitting, she started running errands, for neighbors, she started ironing clothes, and she would give her mom a part of her earnings. So she was really active. And July comes around, and her mom ends up getting arrested for shoplifting. Betty gets arrested for shoplifting. And so she was going to be spending a lot of, you know, the next couple of months in prison. And then when she gets out, she actually wanted to join her husband Lester and go back on

like a carnival tour. And they were going to go all the way to like all these other coasts. And this is an Indiana, by the way. The dad's like, well, what do I do? So he's like, okay, well Diana has a place to stay. I never really have to worry about Diana, the oldest daughter. The two boys, I mean, I guess they can go with my parents in a different state and I guess what I do about Jenny and Sylvia, what do I do about Jenny and Sylvia?

You know I can't even ask my wife because she's in prison right now, man what do I do? What do I do? Right? And so then one day he goes to pick up Sylvia who was hanging out at this girl Stephanie's house. I know. Fucking Stephanie. So Lester, by the way, I'm Stephanie if you're new to this podcast, not that one, not that one a totally different one. I'm a totally different Stephanie, okay? That one, no, I'm not that Stephanie, but I'm just saying her name is Stephanie. A worse one. No, cooler trust. She's probably one of the worst Stephanies. Yeah, one of the worst. And I'm probably the most mediocre, so can I give you a relative scale?

And so he picks up Sylvia from Stephanies and he meets Stephanie's mom. And her mom's name was Gertrude. So he's like, wow, nice to meet you Gertrude. And Gertrude's kind of flirting with him. Gertrude's kind of like, oh, like you look, wow, you're so young to be a dad, you know, she's just doing the most. And he's just like, well, thank you so much

for watching Sylvia. And he just starts kind of bitching. He's like, lesson, my wife's in jail. I don't know what to do. I'm just so stressed out. I mean, like, I just, I just need to get off my chest. I don't know what to do with this summer. Like, I don't know where to put Sylvia.

And Gertrude is like, you know what? I would love to take care of Sylvia and Jenny for the summer. I really wouldn't mind. I wouldn't even mind if you were gone for like a year, honestly. It'd be no big deal for me. I mean, they go to the same high school, so she wouldn't have to go, you know, stay out of state and have to switch schools for a year. I genuinely am totally fine with it.

Just like that. Yeah, and he was like, wait, really? And she was like, yeah, I mean, if she were to stay somewhere else, how much were you gonna pay them? And she was like, well, I don't know, everyone asked for something different. And she's like, well, how about this? You pay me $20 a week, and I will take care of Sylvia

and Jenny. Now mind you, I'm gonna calculate for inflation. It actually was not $20 a week. It would total to be about $650 a month. Is that considered a good amount or? Well, her rent was about $400 for the house. Oh, okay. So she probably wouldn't, I mean, she doesn't work.

Okay. So, it's a fair amount. It's a good amount, I think. So, it's a good amount. It's a good amount, I think. Yeah, it's a good amount. And so, she's like, she's like, don't worry about it. And she says these words. I will take care of them.

Like, they're my own children. I don't trust people who say stuff like that because let's be real. You're gonna treat your own children way better than you're gonna treat anybody else's children, no? Well, maybe not momentarily. I feel like my parents were always better to guest. But like long run winds, you'd get what I'm saying.

And so she's like, great, they shake hands on it and then officially Sylvia and Jenny get dropped off and the dad's like, literally, by guys I'm going at the carnival, it sounds straight out of a movie, but it's true, yeah. And what was Sylvia's? I mean, they were excited. They were really excited.

And Gertrude's house was kind of wild. I feel like if Lester knew this, I feel like if Sylvia's dad knew how wild this house was, he would have never. He would have never dropped them off there, because Gertrude's house was the neighborhood spot. They would, these kids who were 14 years old, 15 years old, would come over to Gertrude's house. They would smoke. They would, these kids who were 14 years old, 15 years old would come over to Gertrude's house. They would smoke, they would drink,

they would talk about this like, raunchy sex. I mean, it just was crazy and they wouldn't even hide it. It's not like Gertrude had a nine to five, like single mom on the road, just working, working, working. She was unemployed, she was staying at home and she would just smoke with them.

She was known to be like a chain smoker, so she would just sit there and smoke cigarettes with them. Is that where chain smoker came from? The chain smoker is the band, I don't know. And, you know, it was just very strange. I think the dad also didn't know that the living conditions would be so rough. I mean, we're gonna get into it, but Sylvia and Jenny,

they ended up sharing a room with a total of five kids. So they had Marie, Shirley, Jimmy, but Sylvia and Jenny they ended up sharing a room with a total of five kids. So they had Marie, Shirley, Jimmy, and Sylvia and Jenny all sharing a room, but get this, the room only had one mattress on it, so they would take turns sleeping. I don't know. Who are the other girls? Oh, Gertrude's got seven kids. Yeah, we're going to talk about them and thanks. And so it was just five kids on a mattress.

I mean, I don't think her parents knew about any any of this and they would take turns sleeping. I don't know how that type of rotation works. Like, who sleeps during the day? Who sleeps during the night? I really don't know. Who runs a house like this? None of them. Motherfucking Gertrude. Gertrude's a character. She's probably one of the most disgusting women I've ever read about. Gertrude, Nadine Vennfusson, I wanna freaking punch her. If this anger seems like, wow, Stephanie needs a little bit of therapy. Stephanie needs to tone it down a bit.

Stephanie needs Jesus. Like I know people are gonna say that, but once you listen to this story, you're gonna get your punching fist ready. Anyway, let me get my podcast voice back on. Mm-hmm. So Gertrude, she was born my podcast voice back on. Mmm. Mmm. So, go true. She was born to parents Molly and Hugh.

And she, I mean, there's really not much about her life other than that she was from a working class family. Now, she was the third of six children, so her family also had quite a bit of kids involved. And she was kind of in different to her mom. She didn't really have a strong connection with her mom. It didn't seem like her mom just like loved her so much. And was like, oh, my baby, go true. And she was really, really close to Hugh, her mom. She didn't really have a strong connection with her mom. It didn't seem like her mom just like loved her so much and was like, oh my baby, good, true. And she was really, really close to you, her dad. Now when she's 11 years old, she ends up seeing her dad die of a sudden heart attack. So she visually saw it. It didn't seem like he passed away in the hospital and she was like outside in the waiting room.

It didn't seem like she came home and the mom was like, sorry, your daddy's dead, you know? It seemed like she witnessed it with her own to 11 year old eyes. And I'm sure, I'm sure that has very big impact on her, massive impact. And I also don't know how it went for the rest of her life. I don't know if Molly was good to her afterwards or if there was a grieving process that she underwent. I don't really know.

Now, when she's 16 years old, she decides to drop out of high school. And she marries 18-year-old John Bannis Schwarzgler. Bannis Schwarzgler. Okay, B-A-N-I-S-Z-E-W-S-K-I. You try it. Bannis was school's girl. Okay, well, John. She marries John. And so he's 18. She's 16. John's later going to

become a police officer. Now, this is the part where you really don't have to pay attention, but it is kind of fascinating. So, I mean, we're married to cop. Yeah, but we're also going to go through lots of marriages. This is just her first boo boo. We're going to go through four. So she marries John ten years during those ten years of her first marriage. She has four children. She has Paula.

She has Stephanie. She has John. She has Marie and then and then she was like, you know what? After ten years, I'm realizing I don't think I like it very much that John beats me, okay? So I'm gonna leave now This is one part where I'm like honestly. I feel like Gertrude did something very courageous and me, okay? So I'm gonna leave. Now this is the one part where I'm like, honestly, I feel like Gertrude did something very courageous and amazing, right? Yes, leave. And a lot of the times, John would beat her in front of the children, so it's just a heartbreaking

situation to be in. I don't know if Gertrude is evil at this point. I don't know if her evilness comes from all of these next marriages or from this experience, but at this point, I have lots of sympathy for her. And then almost immediately afterwards, she hops up into another car. She hops up in that Jeep,

and she starts marrying someone else by the name of Edward, and they were only married for three months. So Kim Kardashian didn't beat the record. I think she was married for like 72 days or something. Why do I know that? That's Two and a half months Yeah, get that math right and get you right. All right, never never put that crown back

Yeah, I'm sorry. I actually like her. I think she's cool and now the third marriage happens almost a couple weeks after her second marriage dissolves And now she's back with her first husband John She remarries John and she has two more kids with John surely and James Okay, well, I mean they get divorced again Okay, and then she meets her fourth husband and his name was Dennis Lee right And you that's the third. Oh, yeah, fourth marriage third husband. Sorry. I don't know how to count Dennis Lee right Dennis was 22 years old and she ended up getting pregnant with his child And she wanted to name him Dennis Lee right the junior and this was gonna be her second seventh child

Excuse me seven the seven went to 4567 and and seventh child, excuse me, seventh, seven, one, two, four, five, six, seven. And immediately upon finding out, like after she gave birth to the boy, he was like, all right, peace out, like I'm gone. And so Dennis the dad, he leaves, and she takes him to court to pay child support, and she was awarded the judge says, yes, you do need child support from Dennis for your new son.

But he really had no money to give. So she didn't really receive a lot of money. So now we're talking about Gertrude at 36 years old. I mean, this was a lot. Her life was just filled with just a lot. She married her first. You get it. She had seven children.

And it's not even just seven children. I don't know where this came from, but she had six miscarriages. So she had 13 pregnancies in total. By the time she was 36 years old. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so by the time she was 36 years old she was suffering from her last and most recent miscarriage, her sixth miscarriage and she had seven children she was taking care of and the oldest, I mean the really the ones that you really need to know are Paula, who's the oldest, okay? And Paula was actually 17 and pregnant too. So yeah, I'm just saying Gertrude had a lot on her place. She really had no authority to be like, let me take on some more kids, right? And then Stephanie, who's 15? And then

there was John, who was 12. And then the rest of the kids don't really matter because they're not really part of this crime They're just kind of all super underage and super young and so she was renting this house for about $500 a month And she really didn't have a source of income. She wasn't working. I mean raising seven kids in this house She did like these odd jobs. She would like go so close for neighbors She would like clean for neighbors and that was about that would occasionally, the first husband where she had six children with, would send sometimes like child care checks. And she used that as her primary source of income, which normally I mean, I guess like whatever do your thing, but it just, the way that he sends checks was inconsistent. It was very spotty. He wasn't sending it every month.

He was, it was just all over the place. So she really didn't have any money and she was pretty tall. She's five feet six inches, but she only weighs a hundred pounds. So keep that in mind because that's going to come into play. Like imagine someone, I can't even, we'll get into it. And so she is really depressed. I mean, she's depressed at all of her failed miscarriages, not failed miscarriages, but you get it. And so she is really depressed. I mean, she's depressed at all of her failed miscarriages, not failed miscarriages, but you get it. Like she sees it as failure. She's upset with her failure of her relationships. And there was a little bit of disappointment in some of the failure of her children. So it just, I mean, she just was kind of working with a lot

of what she perceived to be failures. And so she's like very excited now that she has Sylvia and Jenny because now she's going to have a primary source of income where she can pay all the rent and probably pay for enough food, not great food, but enough food for all of the kids with the extra like $200 a month, right? I got a lot of kids. $20 a week. All too. Inflation, yeah. So with inflation, just to make it make more sense, it'd be $650 a month that she would get, and she was paying about $450 in rent. Oh, okay.

So she's making a surplus kind of thing. Yeah. So she's got like maybe like $200 of surplus, which is good enough for food for the kids, right? I mean, that's a lot of kids, so, but it's good enough for the kids. And so she's very, very excited. Now the first couple of weeks at Sylvia and Jenny come, I mean, Lester even paid the first week out front the day that he left.

He was like, he was 20 bucks on out, right? And so she was like, just hanging out with them. They were all just like, wow, like you're so chill. Like this house is amazing. Like I'm so glad that I met fucking Stephanie at high school. Like I'm just so happy to be here. And Sylvia and Jenny, they would just offer to do all of these chores around the house, which I mean, honestly, they were just probably,

like they have manners, because they didn't need to. And they would hang out with all the kids, they would go to Sunday school together, everything just seemed amazing. Now gradually, as the weeks pass, like I said, Lester and Betty were just not making a lot of money. And so to offer that much was Like I said, Lester and Betty were just not making a lot of money. And so to offer that much was a big burden for Lester.

And so gradually, the weekly payments that he was supposed to give Gertrude were arriving a little bit late. Maybe like one or two days late. And every time they'd be late, Gertrude would get triggered. So there was this incident. The first time that the check came late She made Jenny and Sylvia bend over and she grabbed this giant paddle and she started spanking them and now she's spanking them She was heard saying well, I took care of you two little bitches for a week for nothing Jesus and that was probably the first sign of abuse that they endured. And when the check comes, she just back to normal business. No, I mean, she just keeps abusing them from this way forward.

The father never came. He just mailed the check. Yeah, he would come once later, further down in the abuse, but he would leave thinking that everything's amazing. And so that was kind of like the first incident of abuse. I'm sorry if I said sign of abuse. Sometimes I trip up my words, but you get it, right? How old is Jenny?

Jenny is a little bit younger than Sylvia. I believe they were both in their early teens. There's just a lot of incidents. Paula, the oldest, right? She's 17 years old, she's pregnant, and she just really doesn't like Sylvia. She really hates Sylvia. And. She just really hates Sylvia. And the reason that she hates Sylvia is kind of disgusting. It's just the pure fact that Sylvia is pretty, is fit, is outgoing, is confident, and is

pretty popular amongst people in high school. She just doesn't like it. I mean, Paula is kind of what people would say overweight. She is, you know, very jealous, very bitter. She's not the prettiest person, definitely. And I think I can confidently say that because I know she's ugly on the inside too. I feel like looks don't matter, but I mean, when you're rotten,

not throughout, you're rotten. Yeah, so it was starting to show her insides were coming out to her outsides and they were like, peek a booby, it's a rotten. And so she just was very, very jealous. And she would do things. This is really where it triggered all of the abuse. They went to like this church gathering together as a family. And Paula came home to tell Gertrude, hey, Ma, Ma, you'll never guess what? Sylvia and Jenny were eating so much at that supper, that church supper. And I like makes you look bad because they're eating so much, like you're starving them. What in the world? And so Gertrude was like, oh yeah, is that so?

And so then she beat them some more. Now this is really where things are going to just escalate, and I feel like we're going to hit a point of no return. So that is why, that is why right now, I have to tell you something, honey, do it. Run it. You can't do it now. Doon do doon. So there was a point in my life I used to end every single email with I hope that makes sense he he step into and that was because I was very worried about all of the grammar mistakes and typos that I could potentially be sending in that email and I would just be really concerned that this person was gonna judge me or not

think that I'm professional, which is why I actually haven't been doing that for a while now because I've started to use grammarly. That was so good. Woohoo! Just kidding. Grammily is a digital writing assistant that helps more than 20 million people put their best words forward.

Did you get that? Not best foot. Best words forward. The way that it works is when you sign up for Grammily, the account is completely free and it gives you real time spelling and grammar checks as you write your emails or it could be text messages, your Facebook messages, everything. And it also really just helps me communicate better with a lot more clarity, with more confidence, and I practically use it on a daily basis,

literally on every platform. I actually take it to the next level by getting Grammarly Premium, and it gives you advanced feedback on tone, word choice, punctuation, and a lot more. My favorite part is like the help with the tone. You never wanna be super professional, and then all of a sudden have a sentence such as just a show out of place and it

sounds really random. I struggle so much with it. But also maybe you're a student and you're like I kind of want to check it for plagiarism. Grammily will do all of that for you. Make sure to get 20% off your Grammily premium when you sign up at Grammily.com slash Rotten Mango. That's 20% off your Grammily premium at Grammily.com slash rotten mango. And just in case you're like, wait, I don't have Grammily yet. Like, how do you spell Grammily? I don't have it yet. It's g-r-a-m-m-a-r-l-y.com slash rotten mango.

Thank you, Grammily, for sponsoring today's podcast. Oh my gosh, it's like sweating. That's so cool. I just found my pretty podcast foundation. Back to the story. Now it's the point of no return. Trust me. Now, Sylvia would practically just piss off Gertrude for literally doing nothing

and doing things that she didn't even do. Gertrude would just make them up in her mind and say that Sylvia did it just so that she could have a reason to beat Sylvia. And a lot of the people think that Gertrude was just jealous of Sylvia. You know, Gertrude was still around 30s at the time. She sees Sylvia who's so confident, has a full life ahead of her. Gertrude feels like her life is over.

She has so much burden of these kids of all of this, all this financial burden. She just was mad. And so like I said, Gertrude is 100 pounds. So a lot of the times Gertrude would get a paddle and beat Sylvia for random things. Like Sylvia would recycle plastic bottles for cash. You know how some states you can recycle them and turn them in for like five cents.

She would do that, which really that's a pretty admirable thing to do. But Gertrude would beat her for it. For no reason. Just like why are you doing that? And she would start beating her for it. And now, because she's a hundred pounds and five foot six inches, Gertrude gets tired really easily. Like she doesn't have, she doesn't have no physical stamina. She would get so tired that she would hand the paddle to Paula, seventeen and pregnant Paula, her own mother-fucking daughter, and pregnant Paula her own mother-fucking daughter and then Paula would then proceed to beat up Sylvia with the paddle So

So there's no way for Sylvia to get in contact with the father No What about Jenny? Yeah, no, okay, so this is what's crazy? So Jenny in the beginning she would get paddled so she would get spanked with the paddle she would get beat with the paddle But I feel like Gertrude really just was so angry with Sylvia. Jenny was seen as, she kind of got a little bit of sympathy from the family because she had this like, you know,

leg brace, she just was very timid, she was quiet. She maybe was not as pretty as Sylvia in their eyes. And so it's like that story in Korea. There was a story recently that my mom was telling me about a girl on a train who saw a pretty girl and then followed her, found out like where she lived and then one day came to her house with acid and threw acid all over her face. She had never had a conversation with this girl. This girl never bullied her.

This girl never did anything to her. It was just the fact that this girl was pretty. Like she just didn't like that. And I feel like that's the case with Sylvia. Like, they just don't like that she's pretty. And that's about that. And then they would just kind of escalate. There was this food fiasco where they just kept withholding food from Sylvia. Like, she was getting starved in that house.

To the point where Sylvia would go and she would eat leftovers from the other kids, she would eat spoiled food, like rotten food, would dumps her dive at school for food, like she just, I mean it was really rough and then she finally, after all of that money that she had saved up from recycling those plastic bottles, she purchased some candy at a local store. Now she purchased it, she's eating it and then she's accused of stealing it. So Gertrude decides, we have to, we have to teach our lesson. And so Paula's like, what do we do? Now Paula was hanging

out with the neighborhood boy by the name of Randy, right? He's just like another teenager that lives in the neighborhood and they're like, we know what to do. Get a hot dog and we're going to just put nasty stuff on it. like all the spices in the kitchen like paprika, cayenne pepper, like everything and then we're gonna just overload it on like nasty condiments and we're gonna force her to eat it because she's so hungry like that's the vibe that they had and they forced her to eat it she threw it up and then they forced her to eat up her throw up. Oh, yeah. And then there was the pregnancy room. So like now it just gets weird.

I mean, how long has this been going on? Has this been? Oh, it goes on for months. So this has been months in, right? No, this is like the beginning, like the maybe the first month. It gets much worse. It gets much worse. Like that is so disgusting and I want to print a girl true.

But I mean, there's a reason I'm so angry. So then the pregnancy rumor happens. And this will kind of lead to a big retaliation and it just turns, it turns really nasty. So Sylvia had spent a summer in California near Long Beach, California, and she was traveling with her parents for the carnivals. And she had met a boy in Long Beach California and they just kind of spent the summer together. Now when you're like 15, not necessarily do you call them, like she wasn't in contact with this boy, she wasn't like obsessed with this boy, but she would just randomly be like, oh yeah, I mean I think I have a boyfriend in California. And so Gertrude was like, oh yeah, you have a boyfriend in California

and Gertrude was kind of jealous about this. I don't even know why. I don't even know. And so then he'd keep, she'd keep taunting Sylvia and be like, well, did you do things with a boyfriend and Sylvia would like, be like, yeah, I did. Because in her head, she's singing. I did go ice skating one time with a boy, like, I did these things and then she'd be like, that's disgusting. And then she's like what? I mean okay whatever. I mean I don't understand. And then one day one of the sisters was like hey Sylvia, did you ever like lay under the covers with the boy? And Sylvia, I don't know if she understood the question. It didn't seem like Sylvia did anything sexual at all with the boy, which why would

it matter? But it didn't seem like it. And so she was all with the boy, which why would it matter, but it didn't seem like it And so she's like, I mean, I guess we hugged ya And then that's when Gertrude started being like, then you're pregnant And she's like, what? And Gertrude's like, wow, your stomach's looking awfully big these days. It looks like that you're pregnant And then she'd be like, uh, I guess I have to go on a diet. Like, I don't know what you're saying. Like, she's like, young. And she's like, what? Like, where are you even? I don't even. And so then Gertrude's like, no, you're pregnant. And then Gertrude was like,

you know what, Paula? I feel like we need to help her turn her life around. So Paula's like, yeah, mom, like, what should we do? What should we do? She's like really gassing up her own mom. And so then she knocks her off the chair that she was sitting in Sylvia. And Gertrude is talking about how being a whore is disgusting, while Paula continues to kick and punch Sylvia in the vaginal area. What the fuck? Which, by the way, to put it in perspective, I'm not sure how the actual statistics work, right? But just because we don't have balls,

doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Like, it's actually extremely sensitive, you know? So just in case you're like a dude and you're like, well, but it doesn't hurt as much as getting kicked in the balls. Like, I bet it does. So they were getting kicked and punched in the belly and the vaginal areas while she was like saying all of these things. And so this would be the only act of retaliation from Sylvia.

So she gets punched and kicked all over the belly and the vaginal area. And she goes to school the next day. And she's super upset. And so she's like, I don't understand. Like I didn't do anything with this boy. Like, why are they, and like why are they shaming me? Like even if I did, what's it matter to you? Like I'm not your daughter.

Like I don't understand. And so she tells everyone at school that Paula and Stephanie are prostitutes. And so then Stephanie, she's in school one day and she gets confronted by this boy and he's like, so how much? And she's like, what? And he's like, how much?

Sylvia told everyone that you're a prostitute, so how much? And she's like, what? And so she goes home that day. And she confront Sylvia and Sylvia's like, yeah, I did. Yeah, I told them. And Stephanie punches her. And then Sylvia starts to cry.

And Sylvia apologizes to Stephanie, and then Stephanie starts to cry. No. Do they try to fight each other and they cry it out? Yeah, so it seems like like most high school drama, this should have just ended there, right? But no, Stephanie's boyfriend got involved. And Stephanie's boyfriend is a 15-year-old,

little douchey douche by the name of Koi Hubbard. but no, Stephanie's boyfriend got involved and Stephanie's boyfriend is a 15 year old little douchey douche by the name of Koi Hubbard. Okay, so Koi finds out, it's so hard to say that name for some reason, Koi. Koi. Okay. So Koi finds out and he attacks Sylvia. He's just like, don't call my girlfriend a prostitute

and he brutally attacks her, he slaps her. He bangs her head against the walls. he body slams her to the ground. And then Gertrude jumps into, she's like, let me get in on this and they essentially just jump Sylvia, like the whole family. What's that? Yeah, I don't understand. Again, as a parent, I mean, just as a human being when you see a fight, you're just like, whoa, break it up, what the hell is going on, you know, but she, Gertrude, not Gertrude, she was like,

me too, I want some of that. I don't understand. And then Paula, she was probably the most physically abusive because like I said, Gertrude, even though she was kind of the mastermind of it all, she was physically a little bit weak. So Paula would just get so intense and she had, she is a sour little girl.

She would always focus on Sylvia's teeth and her eyes because Sylvia already had a missing tooth that she was insecure about. So I guess in Paulus had she was like, well, the more missing teeth, the better. And so she would just punch her in the eyes and the teeth. And one time she did it with such a force that she broke her own wrist. Imagine being such a jealous little monster that you break your own, you inflict pain upon your own self. Just so, for what? Her looking like that doesn't make you any prettier.

It makes you ugly, Apollo. And nobody, throughout all these torture nobody saw signs in school. Nobody said anything It's like the jingo case. It's like I mean there are so many signs and there are so many people I mean it'll get worse they visit school officials visit Neighbors visit nothing happened and so Paula breaks her, she goes and get a cast, and then she starts beating Sylvia with her cast. I understand. And Gertrude would constantly, constantly say that Sylvia is a prostitute. I mean, I don't even understand how this happens because

Gertrude has eyes on her almost all the time. She's almost never alone. She almost never gets to go out and talk to people by herself. So like, when does she have time to be an alleged 15-year-old prostitute? Gertrude, I just want to know. And she would just berate her nonstop. Like, you know how disgusting you are. And it seemed like Gertrude had it against women. Like she just was not a feminist.

She wasn't even just like a respectful human. It seemed like she really thought women were scum. And she would constantly tell Sylvia these things. And there were a lot of occasions where Gertrude would even make Jenny beat her own sister. And if she didn't, she would beat Jenny. No freaking way. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And so there would be more stomping. There'd be a lot of times where Gertrude would lay Sylvia down and start preaching about the disgusting nature of women and prostitution while stomping on her vaginal area. And then she would invite and encourage neighborhood kids to come over, and they would pay five cents which is about 50 cents with inflation 50 cents so that they could view and partake in the abuse in torture. Now money was not her motivation. She wasn't charging a lot of people, she wasn't taking her to sick and nasty adult places which I'm sure exists you know. She wasn't trying to pin her out so I don't know why she did

that. I feel like it was the humiliation aspect because he just wants to be her. Yeah. And so she would encourage these kids and they would start using her for violent judo sessions, which is a like a modern martial art type of thing. It's it's, think about like karate, I guess. And so they would use her as like a judo dummy and they would body slam her. They would beat her up by the time neighborhood boys and the family. And then they would do these things that were just so horrendous. Like I said, remember, Gertrude's house is like known for you can come and you can smoke and you can drink and Gertrude doesn't care.

Well, they didn't really have any ass trays anymore because they primarily used Sylvia's body to take out the cigarette butts. Oh wait wait I'm so sorry like this is progressing a lot. Yeah. So this just happened all of a sudden? Yeah so it started with her just beating her with a paddle and then striving her and then stomping on her genitals and then she was like, let's do some more. So she's no longer in school anymore, right? She's still in school.

Yeah, it's crazy. And so by the time... How is that nobody say to anything then? If she's getting used as a freaking, people are Bernie cigarettes on her. So if she was questioned, she would always say nothing happened. Why? Because she has nowhere else to go. And I think that we don't really understand Sylvia because I'm sure her family life was intense. I'm sure she was scared for Jenny. She's very protective of her Jenny. And I just, I truly has nowhere to go because Gertrude would a lot of times would open the front door after beating Sylvia and say go then you don't have anywhere to go go where you gonna go

And Sylvia would just sit there and she would say I don't have anywhere to go and So I think if she was questioned I think that she was questioned, I think that she just brushed it off, like made up a lie. I mean, kids are really good at that, which is so sad. And I also do think that I do put a little bit of blame on this school. I don't think this school did its job.

Because later you'll find out that the school is so nonchalant with things. So I think maybe there was a mix of, they didn't really ask, and she didn't really tell. What about the father man? What about the freaking father? Yeah, well we're in first prize. So they by the time that her body was examined later, there was over a hundred plus cigarette burns on her body and there was this one time where the high school said, okay, well now everybody has to buy this specific like track suit, okay? If you don't have it, you can't come to this like track thing and you need it to graduate, etc, etc. And so she was

like, okay, Gertrude, like, you can buy it for me. Like, can you just tell my dad to like send you more money and Gertrude was like, no, I'm not going to buy that for you little spoiled brat, which doesn't make sense because all of our kids got one and like you were literally being paid to watch out just, I digress. I mean, none of this makes sense for so many reasons. Yeah. And so she was like, okay, well, I don't know what to do. So one day she sneaks into the storage room at the school

and she steals an outfit. And Gertrude finds out and she brings her home and she lits matches and burns her fingertips for stealing. And then it really got a lot worse. They started mutilating her. So they started cutting her, like small little lacerations everywhere. And I mean, of course, they started in areas that would be covered by clothing at school. And what they would do, just because they didn't want to give her too deep of a cut because then she would

bleed out and then she might die and then it might get infected etc etc so they would just cut her a tiny bit. I mean it was still a lot like I'm not talking to paper cut like I'm talking like I probably would faint from the amount of blood that I would see they would cut her like that and to make it worse without actually having massive signs of abuse in the beginning, they would grab salt and rub salt into it. And then, to make it worse, they would say we have to cleanse her of her sins, and Gertrude would throw her into a scalding hot bath with these open salty wounds.

He's dying. Oh, man, you're some nasty, nasty human though there. Yeah. And then they would eventually start mutilating her genitals. And again, it didn't seem like there was a lot of sexual intent. It didn't seem like it was like Gertrude and Paula, who's like, I just want to sexually violate this girl. It really seemed like it came from the fact that they were just purely so jealous of her

that they didn't want her to have any male attention ever. So what they would do is they would just kick her, punch her in the genital area and then this is so nasty, this is where the Coca-Cola comes in. Gertrude would have all of her kids sit down in the living room. And sometimes there would be neighborhood boys who would be there. And she would force Sylvia to strip completely naked, sit on the coffee table, and insert an empty Coca-Cola bottle into her vagina. And it was said that she turned to Jenny, who is Sylvia's little sister,

who witnessed all of this, and said, see see Jenny see what kind of girl your sister is And what makes it all worse is that the parents end up visiting so Betty was out of jail This is Sylvia's mom remember Betty is out of jail and she was traveling with the carnival with her husband You know, and so they're like okay like we have a week. We are we're close to Indiana, let's go visit. And so they visit. And the family is all there. So we've got Sylvia's parents, we've got Sylvia, we've got Jenny, and then we've got all of Gertrude and her seven fucking kids. And for whatever reason, which I'm sure is just Gertrude and the kids, I mean, these girls had been so abused that they were too scared to say anything to their own parents.

So Gertrude had told them that your parents aren't going to believe you, like they're going to think that you're being dramatic. And if you say anything, I will beat you more. Which is kind of true. A lot of the times you do tell your parents things as a kid. And they're kind of like, you know, like, don't know. And then they just, I would like, I would love to know what do, do you know what happened to the parents? Are they, do they talk about their whole? Yeah, they were, I mean, there was so much guilt and shame for them. They felt Jenny doesn't blame her parents for the abuse that she and her sister endured because she felt like her parents

were just so focused on making a living so that they could go to school. So I mean, it's very complex. I feel like I can't really judge them because I don't really know. I just have this theory though that with all of the true crime cases that I've done, that all of the research, you know, I'm not an expert in any of this, I'm not even a parent. I feel not even a parent. I feel like always listening to your kids, just listening to your kids. If your kids say something scary is happening or something bad is happening, like listening to your kids, there are so many cases

where kids will tell an adult and nobody listens to them. Wow, so they came in, they left, that's all. And so they left and immediately after they left, Gertrude closed the door and she looked at Sylvia and said, what are you going to do now? What are you going to do now that your parents are gone? And a couple days later, she pulled Sylvia out of school. Sylvia just didn't go to school anymore. And usually when stuff like that happens, I mean they alert CPS, CPS comes to your door and knock, knock, knock in and whysen your kid at school. Yeah. Ill legal, right? Yeah. But they really do that.

The school didn't even do that. So I'm just telling you, this school is not probably where I'm going to put all of my eggs in a basket and be like, they should have saved her. Like, it seems like this was not well run. And Diana, now the oldest sister, she lived nearby. So this is Sylvia and Jenny's biological sister. This is their family. She lives nearby. And they is Sylvia and Jenny's biological sister this is their family.

She lives nearby and they were just never allowed to see her. Now one day coincidentally, Jenny and Sylvia somehow were able to leave the house by themselves to go on a walk and they end up at the local park and see Diana going on a walk. And so they start just telling Diana everything. They're like you're never going to believe what happening. Like, you have to tell our parents, like, you have to get us out of here. Like, Diana, what do we do? Diana does. And for whatever reason, initially, Diana did not believe them

and thought that they were exaggerating the abuse. They just probably wanted to miss, like, they missed their parents so they're like, making up these lies so that they could see their parents, but like, you don't get it. Like, you're too young to understand that the parents have to do this

because they need to make money. And so, she just kind of thought, but like you don't get it, like you're too young to understand that the parents have to do this because they need to make money. And so she just kind of thought, okay, this doesn't sound real. Like this has to be a lie. And so she just kind of, they said goodbye and they walked away. They never, she never found out where they were even staying.

Like Diana didn't even know whose house they were at. And then a couple weeks later, we have the sandwich issue. So they go to the same park, Jenny and Sylvia. But this time, they were accompanied by Marie who is Gertrude's 11-year-old daughter. So all three of them go to the park and they meet Diana again, coincidentally, the local park. And so Sylvia is like Diana, like I'm hungry. And so Diana is like, you you're hungry like you did get a little skinny Oh my gosh, well thank goodness. I have the sandwich and so she gives her the sandwich and Sylvia's like just

demolishing the sandwich. She's eating the sandwich, right? Yeah, and Jenny's looking at her and Marie's looking at her And then they just go on their way home Nobody said anything about the sandwich because it's not that freaking weird. Like it's not a stranger that you just ate a sandwich from. I mean, it's your sister, right? And they go home and Marie, the 11 year old girl ends up telling Gertrude and Paula about the sandwich. She said, we went to the park and this girl gave Sylvia a sandwich and she ate the sandwich. And now what does a normal person do? Well, did she know the person?

Like she can't just eat free food. And she's like, yeah, like, yeah, that'd be that'd be normal, right? Yeah. But now, Gertrude and Paul say, okay, well, let's talk to her. And so they go over to Sylvia and they say, you're engaging in gluttony, which is like one of like the seven deadly sins. Yeah, it's like you're just like obsessed with food and you eat yourself to death like you just eat and eat and eat and eat Yeah, now mind you Sylvia was extremely malnourished at this point So she really needed lots of food. It's not like she I mean, I don't even understand Yeah, gluttony is like one of those that I don't really understand, but you get it.

And so they decided to choke her and beat her for eating a sandwich. And then they did what they always do. They got a scalding hot bath, and then they threw her in there to cleanse her of her sins. And she fainted, Sylvia fainted. She was choked and she was beat. She was bleeding. Now her fresh cuts are now in scalding hot water. She fainted from the

pain. And Gertrude did not like that. So Gertrude grabs her hair and bangs her up against the bathtub to wake her up because she wants her to feel every second of it. And then she wake up or does she pass out? She woke up and she was tortured the more. Now I know what you're thinking. Really Stephanie? How does nobody know? Even now, really, nobody? Well, there was like boy by the name of Michael. Michael was a neighborhood boy and he came over a lot and he saw all the abuse happened So Michael runs to his dad and he's like dad like you'll never guess what I saw the other day like it's freaking out And so the dad is like well, we got a freaking file a police report

So the dad and Michael they file an anonymous report that said in quotes Girl with open source all over her entire body is living at this address and they gave the address to Gertrude's house. Now the school was alerted because you know they were known that this was an underage girl who was going to the school like who is this girl like let's find it out right and so the school sends a nurse to this address to investigate on behalf of the school especially nurse. Yeah especially because they realize that wait a second, wait a second. I mean, it does seem like there is someone who is living at this address who hasn't been

attending class recently and her name is Sylvia. So let's go investigate. And so the nurse goes, and I think they sent a nurse because when you hear open-source, maybe the nurse wants to know, like, is this like a, do you got like something going on? Or is it abuse? Maybe they're better at identifying it? I don't really know what they sent to nurse. I feel like they should send a full-ass fire

truck full of FBI and SWAT team, but that's just me. And so Gertrude opens the door and she's like, oh my gosh, please come in. Oh, it's such a pleasure to meet you. And so she sits down with the nurse and the nurse is like, well, where is the girl with open sores all over her body like I want to know. And she was like, oh that girl! I thought you were just coming over for a simp tea. So that girl, her name's Sylvia. I mean, obviously you know, she's out of control. What? She oh my gosh. She's such a bad influence for my kids.

It's always the same story huh. Yeah. She's out of control. I mean I... She goes around with all these neighborhood boys just doing nasty things. She never studies. Oh and you know those sores? Oh no no no those sores are because she refuses to wash herself. Her personal hygiene is disgusting. You'll never smell someone like her. I mean I hate to say this about a young girl but good riddance. She's such a bad influence even on her own sister Jenny and on my kids obviously because she was staying here but I have no idea where she went and the nurse says okay and leaves and never investigates again. So frustrating.

Now Raymond and Phyllis are going to piss you off even more. So Raymond and Phyllis are a middle aged couple so they're old, and they're married, and they're right next door to this house. So they are the direct neighbors of Gertrude's house of horrors. And so initially, they believed Gertrude to be an ideal character, who's going to say, caregiver. They thought Gertrude, wow, she has seven kids for own, why not take on two more, she seems so motherly. And then they were invited over to hang out with Gertrude, right? To get a glass of wine and some dinner with Gertrude, you know, some neighbor shit. And so Raymond and Phyllis go over in the first time that they visit.

They started talking about it when they got back home, which is wow, that Paula girl, that 17-year-old daughter of Gertrude's Paula, the pregnant one. I mean, she seems wild. She talked about how she gave Sylvia a black eye and Sylvia sure enough was sitting there with a black eye and the neighbors are talking about it. Now I don't know about you and I am probably the least nosy neighbor that ever has existed. I mind my own damn business. But if I saw a kid with a black eye in my neighbor's house, and someone another kid bragging about giving that kid

a black guy, I would definitely call the police. I would probably do it anonymously, but I would damn well call the police at least multiple times. That day, that hour, I'd keep calling. And then they didn't call. And then they went back a second time. Now, the second time they said that they noticed a lot of things different.

The fact that Sylvia was almost in a zombie like form, like she just was dead. Like she wasn't talking, she like was not consciously aware of surroundings. She just was kind of like a zombie and she was so skinny like you could see bones. She was just meek and just there was just heavy, heavy signs of heavy abuse And so what did they do? They go home and they talk about it They don't call the police. They never reported it to anybody and their defense is that they were scared for their own life But I mean I'm just saying I'm not even a middle aged couple and I would be like bring it on neighbor fucking bring it on They're scared of what of Gertrude who's younger than them mind you

Yeah, like what are you scared of exactly I don't even know it'd be one thing I guess I would understand if I was like living by myself and my neighbor was like a 300 pound dude Who was like beating his kid I'd still call the cops and like try to move the next day But I get it, but you're a middle aged couple. The truth is literally 100 pounds. She's younger than you. Exactly. I just don't understand what's so scary.

But whatever, I digress. Now, Diana, she starts getting concerned. Couple weeks had gone by and she's like, you know what, maybe what they were like, maybe I need to look into it. Like maybe I'm being a shitty sister by not looking into it. And so she finds out where they're staying.

And I don't know if she talked to her parents or whatnot, but she finds out that they're staying at Gertrude's house and she visits the Gertrude property. So she goes to the house, she knocks on the door, Gertrude opens it up and she's like, I'm sorry, who are you? And she's like, I'm Diana. I'm Sylvia and Jenny's older sister.

And Gertrude goes, well, that's interesting. You're not allowed it. And she's like, what? Like those are my sisters. I just want to say hi. Like I won't come in. Like you can just have them come outside. Like I just want to say hi, I miss her.

And she was like, no, no, no, no. I have this rule that anytime someone comes to see your sisters, I have to call your parents and get their permission. And that's going to take like, oh, I don't know, three business days. And she's like, what? I'm their sister. Like it's, I she's like, what, I'm their sister. Like, it's, I'm not like a stranger.

I'm not like a neighborhood friend. I'm their sister. Like, you, you get that, right? And she's like, well, you need to get off my property because I need their consent because I am their guardian right now. So she's probably freaking out that she, she doesn't want them to be seen.

And Jenny ends up running into her sister again by herself, Diana. And Diana asks about Sylvia. She's like, how Sylvia doing? Are you guys okay? Yeah. And Jenny tells her, I can't tell you anything. I'll still get beat up. Okay. And then Diana starts kind of investigating. But again, what can she do? She's not like a full grown adult. I think there were reports that Diana would eventually like find out where she's being hidden and then like sneak her food and stuff, but what do you mean she's no longer there? I mean, she was in the basement later. Yeah, and she would sneak her food later, but the abuse escalates. So we're gonna get to the basement.

but the abuse escalates. So we're gonna get to the basement. And then this is a part where I get really frustrated. In this happen, which goes, case, I don't know what it is about this. That makes me so just, she started not being able to hold her urine. There's just something about this that just makes me just, I don't, it makes me want to rip out my hair. And so she started receiving or gradually losing control over her bowels, and she was denied access to the bathroom a lot, and so she would end up wedding herself a lot. And I think the reason that it really bothers me

in this case, in cases like Junco, is like, how can you get mad about something that you directly caused? This would have never happened if you weren't evil. If you weren't evil, she would literally be able to have regular bowels of regular life, like a regular healthy human, but you're evil. And so this happened with, I didn't know this until this time, but incontinence, your inability to hold your pee when you're that young is not just

damaged to your kidneys and not just damaged your muscles, but it can actually happen with heavy amounts of mental stress. So there are cases where there's no physical trauma, but you'll have people who keep letting themselves at a young age, and it's usually from just mental stress that they cannot and no one can handle at any age. So she starts wetting herself and as punishment, Gertrude didn't want her to wet the one mattress that all of these five kids share in that one room, so she threw her into the basement and she would keep her in the basement, naked,

rarely fed, completely deprived of water. I mean, Sylvia was so dehydrated. They tied her to the railing of the basement stairs. And she was so small, and the railing was pretty tall, where her feet would barely touch the ground. So it's not even like they tied her to a pole, and she could at least lay down, like her feet would barely touch the ground. I just I can't imagine.

What does it mean? She's like tiptoeing being tied up? Just upright tied up by the arms to the railing. What the? Yeah. Yeah. And so they would tie her like that. They would start cutting her legs with knives more and Gertrude decided, you know I need to somehow get the kids to be a more abusive which What is happening right now this right now? They are still finding ways to torture her even more Are they trying to kill her? Because I'm assuming the father's gonna come back eventually So Gertrude just felt like Sylvia was the reason for all of her problems.

Hey, one of her seven kids is annoying. It's all Sylvia's fault. Hey, I can't make rent. It's all Sylvia's fault. Hey, I can't find a man because I'm a fucked up human and disgusting and nobody wants to even look at me. Sylvia's fault. So she doesn't even care about anything right now.

She just wanted... Yeah. She's just a nasty, angry human. And so then the abuse gets worse and Gertrude had to get something to get these kids to get riled up. So this full adult was seven kids, the mom, right? The soul adult in this entire house was disgusting. She would go to each kid and be like, Paula, you know what Sylvia said about you the other day? And so then Paula would be like, no fucking way. And she'd go downstairs and beat up Sylvia.

Did Sylvia ever say that about Paula? No. I just don't understand how moms do this. They would all take turns beating up Sylvia. Now this is when you realize that the entire family is just trash. The only thing that would make them stop beating up Sylvia for even like an hour was not when Sylvia would cry or scream or would black out from pain

or when Jenny would cry or scream to help her sister or when one of the kids was like, this doesn't feel right? No. The abuse only stopped when their favorite TV shows were on. And like clockwork, they'd be in the middle of beating up Sylvia, they would drop everything and go run to the TV and sit down as a family

and enjoy their little TV shows. I mean, that's just trash. I don't even, that's trash. And then we have John Jr. The 12-year-old. I feel like we've heard a lot about Paula, we've heard a lot about the neighborhood kids, and obviously, Gertrude, the mom and the ringleader. But what is it about John Jr.

who's 12 years old that's going to make you want a punch a 12-year-old in the face? It's the fact that John Jr. really enjoyed when he would grab his little brother, who's one-years-old at the time. His diaper, and he would then, this 12-year-old, would go to Sylvia and rub the urine and poop into Sylvia's mouth. This 12-year-old would do this. And there'd be days where they would do this and Gertrude would then give Silvia half cup of water and say that's all you're going to eat for the rest of the day while she's just has all this poo in her mouth. Like it must be something mental like you know to fuck with her in a

different way. I mean I just don't understand. And then the 12 year old John would end up just doing some really really fucked up shit He would grab a bowl of scalding hot soup and place it in front of Sylvia and say you can eat this today But only if you use your fingers so she would use her already burnt fingers to try to scoop up this Burning hot soup so that she could eat it because she's been starved I mean by the time that they found her they didn't even call her malnourished. They called her like, emaciated, which just means like just bones.

Like you're just, I mean, it's dangerous. Like at that point in being so starved, you can't even just eat a hamburger without serious medical conditions happening. Like you have to go to the hospital and be fed a certain way in a certain speed at a certain time to make sure that you don't have a reaction to just eating like a normal human again. And that's how she was. And so she would try to scoop up this soup with her fingers

and she would burn herself and he would laugh and he would quickly take it away and be like, psych. And so she would just burn her fingers for no reason. And then eventually Gertrude is like, okay, fine. Why don't you sleep upstairs for a day? I don't know where she just like randomly thought to do this, but she did. And so Sylvia goes upstairs, she gets on to the mattress. And right before she's about to fall asleep, she's like, Jenny, please.

I know you're gonna get in trouble if they find out, but when everyone goes to sleep, is there any way you can just get me a glass of water? Please. And so Jenny gets her a glass of water, and because she can't hold in her bowel movements, Sylvia ends up peeing herself at night. And as punishment, she gathers everyone in the living room and brings out Sylvia and a Coca-Cola bottle So you know where that goes this time it wasn't enough So she does that all the neighborhood kids watch all of her own kids watch I can at this point. Yeah, but after she does that

Gertrude is like wow that Coca-Cola bottle does not she does that. Gertrude is like wow that Coca-Cola bottle does not satisfy my evil heartless body. I need more and so she drags Sylvia upstairs and she says in quotes, you've branded my daughter so I'm going to brand you and she grabs a hot needle, heats it up on a stovetop, and carves onto Sylvia's stomach. I'm a prostitute and proud of it. Like, she used a needle to scratch her? Like, too. Scarved it into her body. On her stomach.

I'm a prostitute and proud of it. And because Gertrude is a weak little placey bitch, sorry. She was unable to finish. And so she gets a 14-year-old Richard, who's a neighborhood boy, to finish it up. And he does. And then he and Shirley, who is Gertrude's daughter, Shirley is her 10-year-old daughter, go downstairs to the basement, drag Sylvia down after branding her with I'm a prostitute

and proud of it on her stomach. And Shirley decided that she wanted to brand Sylvia with the letter S under her left boob. But here's the thing, evil people are stupid. And so they ended up branding three instead of us. What looked like three instead of us. I don't even. So then that day a bunch of more people come up. A bunch of more neighborhood kids. So everybody is seeing this inhumane torture going on. And they're all just having fun. There's a lot of people then

Yeah, I mean most of them are kids, but still I mean wrong is wrong I feel like I feel like she has the score now. She's branded essentially and Neighborhood kids come over that night and Gertrude starts taunting her and she tells Sylvia You know you're never gonna find a husband, right? Like no one's ever gonna marry you and Gertrude starts taunting her. And she tells Sylvia, you know, you're never gonna find a husband, right? Like, no one's ever gonna marry you. That's disgusting. Look at your stomach.

No one's ever gonna marry you. What are you gonna do? And Sylvia starts crying, and she says, I guess there's nothing I can do. So the neighborhood kids are gathered. and Gertrude forces her to lift up her shirt and show everyone. And the neighborhood kids are like, oh my god, like that's crazy, where did you get that? Like what happened?

And Gertrude's like, so because she's a prostitute, she went to a sex party. Have you guys heard about those? It's like a party where everybody's just doing it and she yeah she just did it with everyone because she's a little whore. She's a prostitute and she got it done at the party and they just laughed at her. I don't understand how that's funny. And so that night she tells Jenny. Jenny, I know you don't want me to die, but I think I'm gonna die. I feel it. And Jenny started crying and she's like, no, like I don't want you to die. And I saw like a lot of people on Reddit giving Jenny a lot of shit, but I mean, they were both abused.

The physical, I mean, a lot of the abuse abuse was yes, centered, I would say like 99% centered to Sylvia, but I'm sure for the same reason Sylvia didn't try to run away, Jenny couldn't. It's just a lot. Especially if Jenny spent her entire life being protected by Sylvia, I feel like, I mean, you know. And so the next day, Gertrude goes to Sylvia and forces her to write a letter You're gonna start seeing the pieces come together because you're right at this point There just is no way that they're gonna get away with this There's no way that her parents are gonna come back the next time and see Sylvia and think she's perfectly fine

Like the damage was too much You know, I mean, before when they came, there were lots of cuts and bruising all over her, but it was covered with clothes. She was very malnourished, but it wasn't to the point where it was like, oh my God, we need to take her to the hospital. It was just like very, very thin and frail. But now, now it's not. Now everything is just mutilated. Her face was just, yeah, she just had lacerations everywhere. And her Gertrude sits her down and forces her to write a letter. And this was completely for the sole purpose of misleading her parents to believe that Sylvia ran away.

So the letter essentially would sound something along the sorts of, listen, mom and dad, I'm so sorry that this had to happen, but I have to run away because some shit has happened to me I decided to be a little hoe and you know do it with these neighborhood boys and so we did it and then Afterwards they branded me and then they beat me up and now I'm just too ashamed and too grossed out And I never want to be here ever again, and so I must now go Even in that letter she wanted to her to say these nasty things. Yeah Yeah, and then she tells John Jr her 12 year old son and

She says okay, so this is what you're gonna do You're gonna ask Jenny and Sylvia to go to the nearby wooded area and then you are gonna just bring Jenny back And obviously you're much bigger than bring Jenny back. And obviously, you're much bigger than Jenny. And Jenny has a limp and stuff. And so you should be able to overpower her if she tries not to. And we're just going to leave Sylvia in the woods to die. So if they find her later, I'll be like, oh my gosh, yes, she did run away and she left this letter. And then people will think that some random boys in the neighborhood did this horrific thing to this girl. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's just leaving her in the neighborhood did this horrific thing to this girl.

That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan.

That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan.

That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. That's her plan. She literally can't her saliva can't even coat the crackers like it won't go down And so she's like I can't eat these crackers like I can't eat these crackers And then John Jr. decides the best way to get her to eat these crackers is to force it down her throat and then Repeatedly punch her in the stomach. I don't understand the logic. I don't understand how How evil and dumb you can be at the same time. Five years old. Yeah Oh, just you wait Just, just you wait and find out what his job was after all of this.

He became a minister. What? At a church. Which church? We need to know. In Indiana. Yeah, at a church. How does he still get a job like that?

Oh, just you wait. Other abusive kids in this family will become teachers and work with children. Do people not know what happened? They do. I don't understand. We'll get into that. And then October 25th comes around. And Sylvia hears Gertrude and John talk about this new plant. She overhears

it. They didn't mean for her too, but she hears it. And so she attempts to escape. And she was so weak and so frail that she couldn't even make it out the front door. Like that's how weak she was. And so Gertrude catches her. And she beats her with a curtain rod and they said that the curtain rod was found bent into like a 90 degree shape and that was to her face by the way. And then she tried to give her toast. Again, very like dry items. So I don't know if that's what the aid or if this was intentional, but again she seems like everything they're doing is intentional.

Yeah, and again, Sylvia's body rejected it due to her severe dehydration that she was, and so then she was force fed this piece of toast, and then Koi, Koi Hubbard, Stephanie's 15-year-old boyfriend, the one who was using her as judo practice, decided to just grab the curtain rod after she ate the toast and beat her one last time, until she was unconscious. And so that night, she's tied up in the basement, and another neighbor here screaming for help at around two in the morning, and then the screaming abruptly stops.

So they didn't call the police? And they didn't bring her to the woods. around two in the morning and then the screaming abruptly stops. So they didn't call the police. And they didn't bring her to the woods. Now they were going to the next day, I believe. Okay. Yeah. And the neighbor just didn't call the police, which is crazy because I mean I don't understand that.

I feel like we have the opposite complaint. I feel like most people do. I mean it just doesn't make sense. So the next day, I think this was the day that they were planning to bring her or within that week or so, but it was October 26 and Sylvia wakes up and she just is unable to control her limbs and she's not speaking intelligently. Like she, you can tell she's just gone. Now, Gertrude decides to feed her a donut and a glass of milk. And she's propped up against a wall, she can't even sit by herself, she can't even stand

by herself. And she's trying to drink this milk and she can't control her limbs, so the milk kind of spills a little bit. And Gertrude decides in her frustrated state to just literally throw her across the room. So Sylvia gets thrown across the room where now she's laying there and she's mumbling and she's moaning and she starts becoming very delirious. So Paula asked her, hey, recite the alphabet. And she's like, and she's just moaning more, right?

And Paula's like, do it or I'm going to long jump you. And I had to Google what long jump is because who says that to another human being, but also what's a long jump? And so I Google it and a long jump is actually who says that to another human being but also what's a long jump? And so I Google it and a long jump is actually I believe it's an Olympic sport But it's a sport of some sort where you run as fast as you can and you jump horizontally like Like you're it's just jump you're supposed to use force and power Using the speed of running so like she's not even just saying like I'm gonna kick you Like she's saying I'm gonna go across the field and like fucking run

and then kick you with all of my force and momentum. It's like what? But she was only able to recite the first four letters of the alphabet, so A, B, C, D. That's it. And then she just couldn't think. She defecated herself. She pooped herself. Which again is just all of them gather in the basement

and she's looking around and she's like, you're a ricky, you're a girl-trude. And so it seems like what Sylvia's doing is she's trying to see if she's conscious, right? It's like something that you do when you don't really remember and you're like, what's going on? I don't feel right, right? And she wasn't doing it in a way that was taunting.

I'm like, yo, I'm Ricky and you're a garbage. Like it was, honestly, she was delirious. And garbage roots like, shut the fuck up, you know who we are. And they give her a rotten pair to eat. She eats it and she's like eating it and looking confused. And her sister is like concerned because she never eats pears like that. She usually only puts it on the side of her mouth because I said her front tooth is missing. And so she's like, huh? And she's like, I can't eat it. I lost my front tooth, I think.

And her sister is like, you lost so when you were seven. And so John is like, well, whatever, she smells because she pooped herself. And so he's like, let me take her outside and wash her down. And so he takes her to the backyard and just hoses her down with a garden hose. And this time, she's like, OK, so she tries to escape. Now, Gertrude sees this.

Throws her back into the basement and stomps on her head. Now, Stephanie decides to go downstairs into the basement. Faking Stephanie. She's like, OK, I'm going to give you like a warm bath because the garden hose was super cold. So I mean, it's kind of all over the place. If you look at most sources, it seems like Stephanie was evil, but not the most evil.

And it seemed like she still had somewhat of a friendship with Sylvia. So it looked like Stephanie would have these burst of anger. But then relatively, she cared more than anybody else, other than Jenny, I guess. Which I mean, it's not saying a lot, because we're comparing her to Gertrude and stuff.

And so she's like, OK, it's OK. I'm going to give you a warm bath, OK comparing her to her to her true and stuff and so she's like okay it's okay I'm gonna give you a warm bath okay and I'm gonna help you clean yourself up and so she's trying to get her upstairs but Sylvia passed out before she could even leave the basement and so Stephanie freaks out starts giving her CPR and she's like calling everyone like how palp like we need to get her CPR. I like call the hospital, right? Yeah, I'm sure it's like no, what do you mean call the hospital that little bitch is faking it? And so she grabs some books The rose it at her and is like faker you little faker wake up you little faker and

continues to throw things at Sylvia and now, Faker and continues to throw things at Sylvia. And so she just goes upstairs and she's like, whatever, she'll wake up when she's done faking it, and Gertrude and the rest of the kids go upstairs and Stephanie stays with her. And I think gives her CPR. We just know that later,

one of the neighborhood kids, Richard, goes over and he goes into the basement, and he just sees Stephanie cuddling Sylvia's body And cry Sylvia's dead and So Sylvia had passed Now Gertrude starts to panic now now she starts to panic and He she tells Richard to go call the police

Really calls the police. Really? So he calls the police. I know, that's what I said. I said, really? She's going to confess everything. She's going to go to jail now. Like, she's going to finally do something, right? Nope.

So the police come. And by this point, they had moved Sylvia onto a mattress in one of the bedrooms. And the police are like, what the fuck happened? She looks beat up. Like, we've never seen someone look like this before. And we're talking about a 16 year old. We're not talking about an adult. And so, Gertrude is like, I know.

So, I was so heartbroken when she walked into the house today. Just topless with her boobs out. And she was holding this note. She was clutching this note. And then she gave me the note. And I'm going to give you the note. And so she gives the police the note, the one that was meant for Sylvia's parents, the one that she forced Sylvia to write. And she goes, and I read the note.

And I was so hyper-organized. I was like, who could do this to my Sylvia to write and she goes and I read the note and I was so hyper I was like who who could do this to my Sylvia who and I Tried for the past hour to just clean her wounds. I put I tried it It put rubbing alcohol and it didn't work. She put on a ho-show. Yeah, I did see you are see be I did it. See you are Nothing nothing she's dead and then Paula Paula walks in pregnant Paula the abuse of bitch Paula And she's holding a Bible and she's telling everyone. It's okay. It's okay. Don't cry And she's telling everyone, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. You're sad, I'm sad, but this was all meant to happen, you know, it was all meant to happen. What the fuck? I'm sorry, I like really had to give it my most because that's how extra they were being.

And they told Jenny to cooperate or you're gonna be the next Sylvia and we're gonna treat you just like Sylvia But if you do cooperate we're gonna keep you in this house and we're actually gonna treat you just like one of our own And so Jenny tells the police everything that they wanted to hear which is yeah, she came home to office And she had this note blah blah blah, right? And so Gertrude and everyone's looking at Jenny like good girl good girl right and right before one of the officers leaves Jenny whispers to the officer and says if you get me out of here I'll tell you everything and he says what and she says if you get me out of here I'll tell you everything and so they get her the fuck out of there thank god and she tells them

everything I mean are those police stupid? They just bought into it? So I heard they still do this now, which is crazy, but I heard especially back in the day, there wasn't a lot of protocol of separating children. So now, if you don't do this, you get in trouble as a police officer because it's part of the protocol.

If you're dealing with any suspicious stuff, you always separate the child to get them alone so that they feel comfortable enough to tell you actually what happened. But back in the day, they would just question you in front of the parents. And of course, if you're parents are the ones that are abusive, what are you going to do? And so they immediately arrest Gertrude and the three eldest children, which is Paula, Stephanie and John Jr. Now when I say eldest, I'm talking 17, 15 and 12. So there are not full grown adults. And then they arrest the same day, Koi Hubbard, Stephanie's 15 year old boyfriend,

and Richard Hopps, the one that etched into her skin. Yes. That finished that and then Koi, the one that used Sylvia as judo practice. And so all of them were held without bail, tending trial. Now, Gertrude starts talking to the police and she is so disgusting. Like, we talk so much about parents like doing everything for their kids, risking their lives for

their kids. Gertrude is like, let me tell you, Officer, let me tell you, the kids are quite evil, the kids are wild, especially Paula and Koi. Paula, I mean, she did most of the emotional abuse. There was so much yelling that girls a little nasty I don't know why maybe it's the pregnancy hormones. Anyways, Koi, he was the one that did most of the beating. That's a wild boy there He will beat her and beat her and never stop for like hours on end. I don't know what's wrong with them What a fucking piece of shit. And so they're like you're saying you didn't know anything about this and she's like, well, I mean, I will admit to one thing, I did make her sleep in the basement once in a while. I did do that.

It was because she just was wetting the bed. I don't know why. And when the police told her straight up, usually in situations like this, children wet the bed because of mental stress and injury to kidneys. That's why she just was like, anyways, and continued on with her little fake story. And then Paula, when she was questioned by the police, Paula had no remorse. She immediately signed a statement that admitted that she beat her with a belt, she broke her wrist because she got too into beating her.

She punished her, she pushed her downstairs, she kicked her in the vaginal belt, she broke her wrist because she got too into beating her. She punished her, she pushed her downstairs, she kicked her in the vaginal area, she gave her black eyes, I mean she doesn't admit it to everything. And then John Jr. this 12 year old is, I mean, allegedly a sociopath in my mind, my personal, non-professional, non-experienced, never met him in my life opinion is that he's a sociopath. Is that he would say things like, I mean, they'd be like, did you spank her or something? Did you spank her with a paddle?

And she's like, no, I never really spanked her. I would probably just use my fist mist at the time. And then he was like, oh, yeah, I did also burn her with like, matches. Sometimes I use cigarettes, but I think my mom used cigarettes more than I did. I just kind of used matches all the time. So then that day with all of these testimonies, they were actually able to arrest five more

neighborhood kids. Michael Monroe, Randy Lepper, Darlene McGuire, Judy Duke, and Anna Sisko. A bunch of kids. They're all kids. And because they were all kids, they were all released. They just had their statements, so the police said, we're going to arrest you. Just kidding, you just have to promise to be a witness in the trial. And so the kids were like, so we don't get arrested, we just have to testify a trial.

And they were like, yeah, go home. Disgusting. Now, the autopsy is going to make you more mad. She had, this is not even the full autopsy this is just a brief overview. Sylvia who is 16 at the time of her passing she suffered more than 150 plus separate runes across her entire body. She was super malnourished at the time of death. Her wounds were varied. They were just varied in location, in nature, in severity, in the state of healing. So it was prolonged abuse.

She had burns, she had severe bruising, she had extensive muscle and nerve damage. Her vaginal cavity was almost swollen shut because of how many times they kicked her. Her fingernails were broken backwards. There were layers of skin on her face, breast neck, and right knee that were peeled and that were receding or were just burnt. Her cause of death, professionally, they said, officially speaking, I guess, is that she had subdural hematoma. And this is essentially what they call a brain bleed from trauma, a severe blow to the head.

It's not like a conspicuous, like they drowned, but did someone drown them? You know, it's like, no, she died from blood forced trauma and abuse, officially speaking. Now what makes people really upset, and this was said in the trial, the medical examiner who examined her body went and was the first witness in the trial. And they said this is the sad part.

That during her death she was in so much pain that she bit completely through her lips. And they said they had never seen someone who has had lips in shreds like she had shredded all of her lips They didn't look like lips It just yeah And she was 16 and that's what he testified at trial So she has a funeral with over a hundred people, just community people, friends of the family, in attendance. And it was, they put a coffin with just her picture in it

because they wanted an open casket and they wanted her to be remembered. It was just so emotional. And so they were eventually able to indict for first degree murder charges, right? So that just means they're going to trial. Against Gertrude Paula, John Jr., Richard Hobbs, and Koi Hubbard. So they didn't have any evidence or enough evidence for Stephanie to be convicted. And so they decided to just let her go.

And she waived her immunity and she said that she'll testify against her family. So I guess she 1% redeemed herself, but not a lot. They were all shown to be mentally competent to stand trial, like no doctors said that they were insane. So the testimony happens, Jenny comes, Jenny test, or the trial happens, the medical examiner testifies, Jenny testifies,

and Jenny literally it was so crazy because people were trying to make it seem like she was fake crying on stand. But did you know when you have such dehydration, you can cry without tears. Your body won't let you produce tears. So it looks like your fake crying, but your tears won't come out. You said Jenny was dehydrated? Yeah, she was also dehydrated, even on trial.

She couldn't cry that well because not like well, but you get it. Like her tears were coming out. The only time they saw just crazy amount of tears was also weirdly when she was talking about the last night or so when she was like, Jenny, I know you don't want me to die and she was telling them what Sylvia had set her. So then the neighborhood kids, they testify.

And then go true testifies. And go true,ifies and go true no You guys know almost the time they don't testify unless this is self-defense charge Okay, like nobody's trying to testify for first-degree murder Typically your attorney tells you not to because it's just not a good idea unless it's literally for self-defense But go true it's like almost testify and so she goes up on the stand and she says guys Jerry hello people of Indiana It must have been the children. Da, like it must have been the children. Listen, I have a bad health.

I have health issues. I just smoke nonstop. And I'm really skinny. I'm underweight. I'm malnourished, too. And I'm depressed. And so, I mean, I guess it's my fault that I, as adult didn't know that these kids were torturing Sylvia, but you know Does she think everyone just stupid or something? I think so.

Hey people, you think there's even one person believed her? No. I laughed because of how stupid they are. Right. And so then Marie, another, yeah, no, Marie, the other kid, she testifies other school kids testify about how Paula would brag about beating her. And the only time that they would help Sylvia

is by rubbing butter onto her scabs on her face and body. I don't know. They just kind of said it in a way that's like, what do you mean? Like we weren't that evil. We like robbed her scabs with Margarine, which I'm like, I don't even, is that like an old day hack or something? I don't know. And so Gertrude's defense is like, this is literally what Gertrude's defense attorney said.

He said, this is insane. No one can do this unless they're insane. I mean she has to be insane to do something like this because it's so insane Therefore Gertrude is not guilty by reason of insanity Like there was no proof there was no medical proof like all these psychologists they testified that like she's mentally not insane She's competent. She knows what she's doing. that like she's mentally not insane she's competent she knows what she's doing she is she's not insane but they're like but look at the crime would you say the crime is crazy yes or no and did Gertrude commit the crime yes or no so then she must be crazy like that was their defense I'm so mind blown and so all of them are trying to pass the fatal blow to one

another, right? They're just trying to push it on us each other. Yes, I did burn her body with cigarettes, but I wasn't the person that hit her at this time because they think that's what killed her, right? And so the prosecution is just trying to argue, like, listen, it doesn't matter because every single mark on her body contributes directly to her death. You know? And so finally, after an eight-hour jury, they convene, they come back and they say, Gertrude is guilty of first degree murder. Paula is guilty of second degree murder.

The three underage boys, Richard, Koi and John, are convicted of manslaughter. So the judge sentences Gertrude and Paula to life in prison, and the three boys would get a sentence from between two to 21 years. Oh, hold on, I see your angry face. Hold on to your angry face. It's about to get bad. Now there was a retrial. So the reason that there was a retrial

is because everyone was tried together. And that was done because in a situation like this when a group of people torture someone, you can't trial, you can't try everyone separately because then you don't get the full picture of the crime because any other evidence would be irrelevant to the case and the judge wouldn't allow it and then the jury wouldn't really understand.

So the jury would be like, this person died because this person burnt 50 cigarettes onto them, like I don't understand, right? And so it just wouldn't make sense. But they the attorneys tried to use this and be like, well they need to be tried separately. And so they were like, okay fine, we're gonna give you guys a retrial and this was just Paula and Gertrude. And now Paula is like a ret child, and her attorney tells her, listen, you shouldn't be so excited because you had second degree murder. They met up at the first, you know? Like you don't even know.

And so Paula was like, well, how about I make a deal? And I don't know why Indiana let this happen, but not the people of Indiana. But Paula was given the chance to just plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter. And so she got two to 21 years. So she went from life in prison to two to 21 years. Now Paula, okay, well let's talk about Gertrude. Gertrude had a retrial.

She got the same conviction, first degree murder, and the same fucking sentence. So good riddance, right? now Paula. She attempts to escape prison twice She tries to run away from prison by the way. She is a baby Remember she was pregnant she gives birth to a daughter that she names Gertrude and then puts Gertrude up for adoption Yeah, her mom Yeah, you're gonna get more mad you're gonna get more mad Yeah, you're gonna get more mad. You're gonna get more mad. Yeah, you're gonna get more mad. Because Paula attempts to escape prison twice.

But... How long does she get? Two years. She got two years? She's up two years. Yeah. She's served two years. Is she trying to escape during those two years?

Yeah, but they're like, you know what? We're just gonna let you out anyway. And so Paula leaves. Now Now this is my personal opinion. I love people being able to change their identity, but when you are that disgusting of a human, I feel like you should live with your crime. I feel like you should live every single day with that weighing over your shoulders. I don't think that you can change your identity. I don't think it's okay. So Paula somehow, she changes her identity. She gets a new name.

And she moves to Iowa to be with her mom later. Just your way to hold on. She moves to Iowa. And for 12 years or something like that, she was a school counselor. What's her name? Paula Pace was her name. She got fired. Yeah, she's fired in 2012.

No fucking way. When they found out what she did. That's why I'm saying like you should not, I mean, I don't even- She was a school counselor for- Students! I don't even know how they don't do background checks at this school in Iowa. She is still living in Iowa. She's married. She's two kids now. Now, Gertrude. Gertrude was given a life sentence. Remember, she got a retrial. She was convicted and sentenced the same sentence, a life sentence. Now, ironically, she goes to prison and people in prison love her. All the inmates love her. They call her the den mom. So the den mom is a person that is also an inmate That's kind of like motherly towards newer or younger inmates

Just kind of like telling them the ways of prison life right and her nickname inside a prison because everybody has a nickname I watch oranges the new black. Okay, everybody has a nickname and her nickname was mom I'm just so confused. This is like the least motherly human I've ever met on the face of this planet. Well, I've never met her, but you get it. But her nickname was Mom, and she was allegedly a model inmate. I don't like when they use that saying

to like heavy duty criminals because no. And so she serves 20 years, and it was time for her parole. She had the possibility of parole. And so Indiana, I mean, there was just, it was a shitcho. There was about 50,000 signatures that were like, please don't let her out for parole. And this wasn't like 1985. So there was no internet like change.org. So these signatures were like people just waiting outside of like gas stations, like people waiting outside of like grocery stores to sign this petition. Yeah.

So it was a lot of people, but the judge was like, well, she's a model inmate though. So they let her out 20 years for the murder, 20 years served for first degree murder of a 16 year old girl. And she changed her name to Nadine Van Fassen. And she claims to be a devout fish Christian. And she changed her name to Nadine Van Fassen. And she claims to be a devout fish Christian. Why did I say fishermen? And she moves to Iowa. And people did not like that she moved to Iowa. They're like, why are you here? We don't like you.

And she would constantly blame the whole murder on the medication she used to treat her asthma. She was like, now it's like my inhaler for asthma that made me like blink out and just like murder her. And I was like, what? You make no sense. Anyways, within like a couple years of getting out, she died of lung cancer. So I hope it was a painful death because she gave Sylvia a very painful death. And now let's talk about Richard Koy and John Jr.

The three boys who were convicted of manslaughter. Richard was the one who etched and branded her stomach and the S or the three. And Koi was the one that used her as judo practice. John Jr. is the son who's 12. They all served less than two years. What the fuck? Richard died four days later from lung cancer. What did he mean four days later? Or four years later, I'm so sorry.

He was only like 20, 21 when he died. Yeah, from smoking. So he died really young of lung cancer. Quite never changed his name. And it didn't seem like he was ashamed with what he did. So he kept going to prison. Ironically, a couple years later, he would be charged with a double homicide. But later he was acquitted weirdly. And then

he died of a heart attack in his 40s or 50s. So he died young too. And then John Jr., who is Gertrude's 12 year old son, he was released from prison in less than two years and then became a minister. How did that happen? I don't know and then he would often spend a lot of his time volunteering. Now what type of volunteering did he do? He volunteered to help children with divorced parents. I don't understand. And then as a minister, he'd go around telling everyone, I deserved more time Then go back to jail go serve more time So his whole thing is he's saying that he's changed. Yeah, so now he's devouring his life to

Devouring devoding yeah, devoting. I'm sorry. Devoting his life for this cause. Yeah But he also ended up dying in like his 40s of diabetes. Oh My gosh, yeah But he also ended up dying in like his 40s of diabetes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What do you say? This karma or what? I don't know. See, I hate to say that because there's so many good people that die young and that die too

soon. But there is something really weird about all of them dying super early. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's evil in your heart. It takes a toll over time. That's what my mom used to say. Yeah, so maybe. Okay, my biggest question will happen to the parents.

They just were so heartbroken. Nothing really happened to them. That's it? Yeah, there's not much about it. I mean, me personally, I've put a lot of blame on the parents. I mean. Yeah, but we also say this from a position I've never had been parents who are struggling.

So, put me, it's your responsibility. There's no way you can. This sounds bad. I wouldn't even leave my dogs with people that I had just met. Yeah, I'm just saying. I'm sure their life is rough and difficult to provide for these people, but still, your kids is your legal responsibility.

I guess my thing is also what happened that Sylvia and Jenny felt like they couldn't tell their parents, was it really just all the abuse? Right, maybe their parents, maybe they weren't showing a lot of, you know, attention to them. Yeah, that's the one thing I get from all these crimes against underage children is when I become a parent. I'm gonna believe my kid And then it's gonna be the most annoying kid ever mom

I feel like that's the one thing I'm getting yeah Yeah, is this to believe your kid and I feel like times are changing to Where it's more like that now But even so there's so many recent crimes. But anyways, in Indianapolis, this just kind of felt like a slap in the face. In Indian apolis, Indiana, in 2001, they erected a six-foot tall granite memorial dedicated to Sylvia. It's on Washington Street in Indianapolis and it says this memorial and loving memory of a young child who died a tragic death as a result

laws changed and awareness increased. This is a commitment to our children that the Indianapolis police department is working to make this a safe city for our children. Meanwhile all of them are just free in two years and like Gertrude got out in 20 years and Paula was like a school teacher and I mean I'm just saying I don't know maybe laws have really changed for them there but it's just kind of like a really like you think that you can just do all that and give us a fucking statue and be like okay anyways let's move on like no. Yeah. Yeah. So let me know what you guys are thinking about this case. I know I got really angry in this one.

I feel like either I was going to get angry here or I would have just cried the entire way through. So I just got angry. I'm sorry. Let me know what are your feelings on this one. And because a lot of people do compare it to the Junco case like on Reddit, a lot of true crime people do. Do you think this is like the American

Junco Ferrarto case? Do you think this is similar in the way that the torture was done just so calculated and disgusting and just what? Let me know and I hope you guys enjoyed this week and I will see you guys next Wednesday. Bye. Bye. you guys next Wednesday. Bye. Bye.