Rotten Mango - 9yo Girl Forced To Mutilate Sister’s Corpse & Lie In Coffin With Her For Ritualistic Abuse

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

The concept of death is odd when you're a kid. Nine-year-old Mary knew right away. Her older sister, Ruth, had just died of brain cancer as Mary watches her parents take Ruth's body out of the casket, place her on the floor, and start cutting. Mary’s father hands the knife to 9 year old Mary. She is forced to make little cuts into her older sister's beloved  body until her parents put Ruth’s body back into her casket. Then, they pick Mary up and force her in the casket as well. Mary remembers the softness of her sister’s hair on her cheek. This is Mary's life being the child of ritualistic child abuse sex traffickers. But there are people who don't believe Mary; an entire organization called the False Memory Syndrome Foundation that don't believe Mary and other survivors just like her. They say she was probably brainwashed during her hypnosis sessions to believe that she was abused but why would Mary lie about any of this? We traveled to Mary in person to find out.    Read Mary Knight’s memoir, “My Life Now: Essays By A Child Sex Trafficking Survivor” at https://a.co/d/hZD08OG or https://www.maryknightproductions.com/index.html Watch Mary Knight’s self-produced documentaries on Amazon Prime, Tubi, and her YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_h2qj8HY2OhgSKcXfjrMiQ?view_as=subscriber Reach out to Mary personally at [e-mail]    Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The concept of death is odd when you're a kid. I don't think that there is a standard age across the board when kids realize that somebody is dead. Like at what age can a child differentiate between an open casket funeral and then somebody's sleeping in a box in front of people? Nine-year-old Mary, she knew right away. Her older sister Ruth died of brain cancer and Mary is brought with her parents to see Ruth's

body in the casket. That's when it starts happening. She's watching as her parents take Ruth's body out of the casket, place her on the floor outside, and they start cutting. Mary's dad is cutting into Ruth's body with a knife just again and again. And then he tells Mary to hold it. So now she's holding this knife and they make nine-year-old Mary cut little cuts into her older sister's beloved body and they slash her up everywhere until they finally place Ruth back into the casket along with Mary. And before Ruth's funeral, nine-year-old Mary is essayed by someone from the funeral home. This is Mary's life being the child of ritualistic sex traffickers. And it's not the first time that Mary saw someone die. The very first time Mary see someone

die is when she's four years old. I'm not sure she knew what death was at that point, but she definitely did not think that they were asleep. Mary's mom gives birth at home to Mary's little brother, a little baby boy, and weirdly, this is the only time that Mary's mom has given birth at home. All of Mary's other siblings, including Mary herself, were all born in a hospital with a birth certificate. But not Mary's little brother. He's born in the house after a year of hiding. Mary sees him. And then that little boy is very promptly taken away and they castrate him at home with presumably not the right tools, not the right medical knowledge to do it safely,

but castration is not even the purpose, because right after that, right in front of Mary, her little baby brother is murdered. Mary says, I saw the blood. I remember hearing the baby scream and then stop screaming. Mary Knight is tortured through her entire childhood by her aerospace engineer father who worked at Boeing, who is also a church leader.

They were millionaires, but Mary remembers being deprived of food, being passed around by her dad's friends, including church leaders, funeral home employees, doctors. Mary remembers that her dad would creepily tell her that he was attracted to her. This is back when she's a child. This is not even appropriate when she would be an adult, but when she's a little kid. And it seemed like her mom starts getting jealous because she starts saying things like, My legs look better than your legs.

Mary is sex trafficked and abused in hotels in a Sunday school classroom in a church building at her childhood home, her grandparents' home, on a swing set in a studio of a professional photographer after regular hours at a doctor's office by a doctor who ran the practice, who is also very close friends with Mary's parents. Mary says that her dad was a prolific CSAM creator producing videos with his own daughter Mary and victimizing other children. Some of the CSAM photos and videos were allegedly taken in churches to be sold for higher problems. because it seems like a lot of people liked that setting. She says that her parents were members of the KKK who performed ritualistic abuse involving

Mary and black victims. And this is all during Mary's childhood. But she doesn't remember any of it until she turns 37 years old. This is the story of Mary Knight, who says she was trafficked by her parents who were allegedly prolific child abusers, traffickers, members of the KKK who took pled in torture and abuse, but there are people who don't believe Mary. There is an entire organization called the False Memory Syndrome Foundation that don't believe Mary, along with Mary's own parents, they don't believe Mary. A high-profile doctor who has testified in the defense

of Ted Bundy, Galane Maxwell, and Harvey Weinstein believes Mary is lying. They don't think any of this is real. They don't think any of this is true. They think that she is flat out lying. They say she doesn't have proof. They say she doesn't have anyone to corroborate her claims. They say she was probably brainwashed during her hypnosis sessions to believe that she was abused. They say that she's doing this because she craves attention, that she must be mistaken. But what motive would Mary have to lie about like any of this? And what motive do these doctors have to disprove Mary? Could it be that they don't want victims to be believed? But why would they want that? Is it because some of these people who are against Mary and want the world to think that Mary is lying, they also have

been accused by their own children of abuse? This is the story of Mary Knight and why some people think that she's lying. And that's why we went to go see Mary to see if she is. Before we get into it, a few really big disclaimers for this episode, there are mentions of extremely difficult subjects like animal abuse, torture, and death, as well as child abuse, essay, trafficking, torture, ritualistic abuse. There is a discussion regarding hate groups such as the KKK, as well as other violent ideologies. Please pause the video whenever you begin to feel uncomfortable or need a break. And lastly, I highly recommend checking out Mary's,

memoir, My Life Now, and her documentaries as part of her own investigation to see if her memories reveal, all of which is going to be linked in the description. When I was eight years old, I witnessed the murder of a black family. The memory came in the most nurturing way possible, but it was horrific memory. So I had just taken my sons to school. I was in my SUV. I was sitting in my car in the driver's seat just relaxing for a little while before going inside and I heard this song it was a love song and it was like God was singing a love song to me and while I heard that song I saw what had happened I could see it I could see it in my mind

I was eight years old I was dressed up like I used to dress up for church white socks and those black patent shoes that are a little uncomfortable that are shiny and the church shoes. And I had on a pretty dress. And we got in the station wagon. My sister was still alive, but she didn't come. I was the only one taken. And we stopped and picked up Dr. D, who was a medical doctor.

And he was a friend of my parents. and he got in the backseat by me, my mother was in front, my father was driving. We came to this shack where it looked like people were living out in the country, and when we came to the door, it seemed like the man led us in willingly. But as soon as we got in there, my father and Dr. D took out their guns, told the people what to do and made the man go out to the car and get the pieces of wood that were painted white

and bring them in. My parents tied up the two women in kind of the kitchen area of the shack. It was just a very small dwelling. And they told the man to set up a cross. They tied him to the cross. And they told him that if he would pretend to be crucified willingly, like Jesus Christ, then the little girl wouldn't be hurt.

And the little girl was just the same size as me. I think she was the same age as me. There was a gun at my head and a gun at the little girl's head. The little girl had braids all over her head. She neatly braided hair, and I remember thinking that someone cared about her because her dress looked nicely ironed, but then mine did too, and I didn't feel like anyone cared about me. And then after, I was made to have oral sex with a man while he was on the cross, which

on just so many levels is so disgusting, but I was raised believing that Jesus died for us and that that's how we're saved is by believing in Jesus. And then I was told I needed to touch this man sexually and put my mouth on his penis. And I did as I was told. Cameras, my mother was taking footage of it. My father had nice camera equipment. And I remember that this lasted a long time,

but I don't know how long you know it's hard for children to judge time and then I the man was given something was made to eat something so it may have been poison and that may have been how he died or he may have been on the cross

long enough to literally be crucified on the cross and then as soon as he took his last breath and again went off and the little girl was shot in the head and I was heartbroken for her, you know, and for the man and for, and so my parents at that point

rushed around, set the shack on fire. My mother grabbed my hand to get me to come out of the shack, and the two women were tied up in the kitchen. They were going to burn to death. And I did not want to leave with my parents. I remember I wanted to stay in the shack. I knew that I would die if I stayed in the shack, but that's where I wanted to be. I wanted to stay with the good people. I didn't want to leave with the bad people, meaning my parents and Dr. D. And I remember one of the women calling out, little girl, you go, you go and you tell.

For many, many years, I thought she was. telling me to tell their story, the black family story. But now I realize she was telling me to go and tell my story because there's not many things that you can communicate so quickly to a child. But children, the eight-year-old I was, could understand that telling this story was really important and that I needed to stay alive or the story wouldn't be told. really glad to get an opportunity to tell. My hardest memory is of my sister. My sister died when I was nine and she was 11.

She died of cancer. She did not die of child abuse. She had brain cancer. But the hardest memory for me is when they mutilated her body. So there was definitely a funeral home director or an employee of the funeral home in on this. As is usual, my sister's body was picked up by someone from the funeral home. But instead of taking her body to the funeral home, he took it to my childhood church.

My parents got me up really early, coming in the middle of the night, early, early morning. and Ruth's body was brought there, laid on the ground out in the treat area by our childhood church. When the memory first came, I just remember having a knife in my hand and stabbing my sister's body. And I'm like, how did they get me to do that? But when I remembered that, it was just like I did everything my dad told me to. The way they got me to do it is say, do it. And I did. There were a lot of horrible things about it that have come back to me in different periods of time.

Like, later I remember that they made me change into her panties and put her. I mean, they did that to make child pornography, obviously. After they mutilated it in that place, then they put her body in a coffin, and they put me in the coffin with her. One way I know for sure this memory is true is my visceral response of being put in the coffin with her was I get to be close to my sister. I get to touch her hair.

You know, if I were writing a story, I would never think that would be a child's reaction, but it was mine. So then we were taken to the funeral home, and there at the funeral home, they told me they continued to discrate her body. Now, some people have said, well, why don't you just get her body dug up, which I don't think I could get permission for that, and I don't want to do it because it's her body.

But I'm really not sure it's her body in our coffin because I'm not sure it was her body that they mutilated because right now if someone killed my husband and mutilated, him i wouldn't be able to identify oh yeah that's his skull i i wouldn't how would i i would i would just be so traumatized and so anyway they they did with a hammer hit this hit a skull whether it was hers or not they um just desecrated her body cut into small pieces um and then they told me they were desecrating communion which is considered really important in the church I was raised in, and in most Christian churches. And so they told me

I was made to eat her body and drink her blood, which I believed them at the time. Now, more recently, I've gotten a full memory, and it was a communion wafer. And I don't, I don't, I have no memory of actually ingesting something that would have been blood. But the communion wafer, I can remember really clearly, it's the kind of communion wafer they use at Methodist, Presbyterian churches, not the kind that we used growing up. So I think they were trying to desecrate communion, not just communion as it exists in the church I was raised in, but in all Christian churches. And after that, I was made to have oral sex with the person at the funeral home. Again, I don't know if it was a funeral director or an employee, but it was like that was a payment to him. And then I was in a room at the funeral home, a small room, and I was just sobbing and screaming.

And my dad came in and said, quit screaming, and I wouldn't. And that was my act of rebellion, no matter how much he threw me against a wall, no matter how much he hit me, I kept crying. And then after all of that, we had my sister's closed coffin funeral. And it was just recently that something I remembered is how lonely I felt there. I mean, I was with these people who had done horrible things sitting on the same pew with them. And I knew I wasn't like them. And I just remember being so lonely and so lonely for my sister. So just recently, and this was so healing, it was just in the last 10 days,

and I remembered how guilty I felt because I thought I was hurting Ruth. Well, Ruth was dead. And it just occurred to me like, Ruth was in heaven. She wasn't being hurt. I didn't hurt Ruth's body. But you can convince a little kid of all kinds of things, and I felt guilty about hurting her body. body. Abusers often want the child to believe they are an abuser too. And so my father had me

do it so I would think I was an abuser. And that's something that keeps you from remembering your abuse because if you think you're abuser, you're not going to speak out and say you think you're guilty. And when I do remember things, sometimes I have body reactions to it. Like, when I've remembered things or when I've spoken publicly, it doesn't happen anymore, but I have trouble sleeping the night after I speak or the night after I've spoken out in some way. And my knees and my legs below my knees just are freezing. And I'll put like long underwear on, another pair of underwear, some pajamas, a flannel nightgown, lots of socks. And what it feels like is apparently I was made to walk into freezing water.

Well, that's something they did to threaten me not to tell. So then when I tell, I have some reaction like that. My ex-husband and I had nourished problems really throughout our 23-year marriage, and that was the time we were having problems. He was very depressed at that time, and I just got so little attention from him. And so I asked him to go to counseling and he did. We were in counseling and we had told my parents about anything, but they came to visit us and stay at our house. And while they were down there, my father's sister, my aunt, had been out of contact with my father for a few years and I

didn't know why. So my father's sister said she wanted to meet with my father. mother. So I was curious about that meeting. What was it? The reason for that visit is that my father's sister wanted to tell them about the memory she had of her. This included who knew my father. She told my parents that she had been sexually abused by her grandmother, which would have been my great-grandmother. She thought they would get counseling, but they didn't. And so then I had trouble getting them to really even talk about it. And my dad and I went on a trip up to his hometown, his Sherman, Texas. His sister had told him something about the ritual had happened at this certain place in Sherman, Texas.

On the way out, I asked him what his sister said, and she said, well, she has weird ideas. They said about religion because I knew she thought women should be able to speak at church, and she had some other views on religion. And he said, no, about our grandmother. She says, our grandmother sexually abused her. And so, I'm like, wow. And he said something like, but I don't think it's a big deal if you don't remember things. Anyway, then I had young children at the time when my father and I got back,

and I put my children to bed so they couldn't hear any of it. And then I sat down with both my parents. parents and said, I want to hear all about what my aunt told you. And they were like, well, yeah, she's crazy. I said, well, what are you going to do about the situation? Oh, nothing. We just won't ever talk to her again. And the odd thing about that is that my aunt and my mother were roommates in college. Like before my parents had met each other, they were always long-time fronts. So I decided that I would wait until after they left and then I would call my aunt

and say, would you be willing to meet with me? So I did my aunt and I met for lunch and she said that I had witnessed abuse. I knew it was true. There was a deep part of me that just was 100% sure it was true

and I remember I've never drank alcohol I still don't but I remember when I got in the car afterwards it was like, oh I wish I could just get drunk right now because it was so horrible of a feeling to think it's true, but I knew it was true. I didn't know I had been abused, but I knew what she was saying about me witnessing abuse was true.

And so then I told my ex-husband, and he said, oh, well, we should quit marriage counseling, which made no sense, but he was looking for excuse to quit marriage counseling. So he's like, we shouldn't have marriage counseling anymore. You should just go to the counselor alone and talk to her about your childhood. So I did. That's what I started doing. So I went to a counseling session. My ex-husband came with me because we wanted to make sure the psychologist who was doing

hypnosis didn't ask leading questions, and she didn't. It was at that next session that she had me relax, and then she guided me to go back and see the man's hand, and she had me go up his arm until I saw his face. That is how I start. My film, Am I Crazy? That hypnosis where I'm just sobbing and saying, it's my dad, it's my dad. I think it was my dad. That was horrible, because my aunt told me about, my grandparents, but she didn't tell me about my dad, her brother. She wanted to believe he hadn't voluntarily done something like that, but he did. So I called him, and I called him at his work number,

because I thought he was more likely to be honest with me than my mother, frankly, and that he was more likely to answer my question. What did you ask? I just told him about the holding the dog gruffly that I could see as, hand was his hand was the one holding the dog and it was it was like grabbing the dog and that i thought that it was a part of abusing a dog he said no and he said is this going to lead you to think i sexually abused you and i was like shocked by his question i had not even considered the possibility that i had been sexually abused by anyone and especially not my father

in the call i said well i guess i won't i guess i won't talk to me anymore And, like, that was what he expected and wanted. And I remember there's a movie, all the pretty horses, and there's a character in it who she has a line where she says, I never thought my dad would quit loving me. And that's how that felt. It was like, ooh, my dad quit loving me and perhaps never did. What was the relationship like before this phone call?

My dad was a real good listener, and, like, I could tell them about work or tell them about different things. We did have differences of religious views. I thought that we went to church. I was raised in a church that women weren't ever allowed to preach. They weren't even allowed to make announcements at church. It was just women were not supposed to speak at church.

And so when I read the Bible, it's like that's not what the Bible's saying. I was a teenager when I found places in the Bible that's like, no, that's just not yet. I found he was totally protective of me. I had never seen him, you know, like some men will look at a man of the woman's legs or at her breast. I have never seen my father do that except for during the abuse. So I had no conscious memory of my father ever even looking at the lace of a woman wore a short dress. not even one time never yeah i thought my dad was protective of me i i didn't know although i will say i had a clue but i didn't let myself think about it but i was talking to my parents

and my father admitted that he had sexual feelings toward me said i don't have i would never act on him, but yes, I've had these, he called it goofy ideas. I mean, that's a horrible thing for a daughter to hear her father say. And I just interpret it like my dad was just being really especially honest or something. Not that there's just a horrible thing to say. I mean, if a man does have feelings like that toward a daughter or a stepdaughter, he should talk to a counselor about it, but he should never talk to the child. Then the That's when your relationship and your parents just kind of fell apart from that point out after you're starting memories. So my sons were supposed to go see my parents that summer.

And when I have the memory of my father holding a dog roughly, I told my ex-husband, our sons are not going to go there. Even if all my father had done is abuse a dog, if I'm still going to send my little boys there. They wanted contact with my sons and not me. Did you try to speak to your mom after that? Well, at that point, after that happened with our dad, my ex-husband answered the phone. It was my mother, and apparently she was just really laid into him about how can anyone believe this and this is just wrong and all that. I also have two letters from my father. I have a letter from my mother, which the letter from my mother was really weird.

I got it later, but she was, like, sympathetic to me and all angry at my ex-husband. She was like, I think you're mistaken, and you're just confusing your sad feelings about when your sister died with thinking you were abused, which doesn't make sense. And, yeah, these are false memories. She used the terminology that the people from the False Memory Center Foundation used, so I think she was in it. Oh, she said repressed memory counselors, and she was saying that some counselor, you can go to some counselors, and they won't believe you if you tell something you remembered. And, yeah, you still can, you know, they're still out there, which is really sad. They don't believe their client. They're the ones blamed, like they're saying it's your counselor's fault.

Your counselor talked you into believing these things, which one thing is no one could talk me into that. I did not want to believe that my father was an abuser. I remember the night before I called him, and I was like, boy, I'd give up any amount of money. I'd give up any possession for this to not have to make this call. It was a hard call to make. the thing that was more important to me

than my father's feelings was my son's safety. And so I did, you know, so I called him. But I didn't want to believe it was true. No one wants to believe that of their parent or at themselves, that they were sexually assaulted. Someone wants to believe that. So when the memory came back like that, was it hatred?

Was it anger for its hand? Yeah. I had the anger. And fear, I had a lot of fear. And I was actually on camera for my film and my crazy, my journey, when it was during the process of making that film that I quit being afraid of my father. And I think the fear kept me connected. And I say that on camera, but being afraid, at least there's a connection,

or being angry, there's a connection. But now there's just no connection. I think about my father. I can think about my father without getting mad, without being sad. But even after he died, you know, I still had this fear. And now I don't. I don't think about him very much.

And when I do, I can handle it. But I don't constantly think about my mother. Although thinking about my mother is a good cook, you know, I'll always think about that. She was a really good cook. And so she was real talented. And I can respect that. Just like I can expect my father was very intelligent.

But, yeah, no, I don't think about my mother just a whole lot. I don't think about my sister who died very often anymore. Do you think that's a reflection of your healing journey? Yes, yes, I think it is. I think it is. I said that. I think I left it. I think it's in my film that I say to Ruth when I'm on her grave

that I don't think about you very often. And that's a good thing that just shows I'm happy and I know you would want me to be happy. When I was making my film Mothers a Molestation, a film about child abuse, that was the last time I ever I'm going to my mother's grave. I did it on Mother's Day.

I did it for the film, and I'm just never going back there. I really poured my heart out. I screamed at her, I yelled at her, I hit her grave. I did just all the anger work, and now I'm done. with that. I mean, maybe sometimes I could get angry at her again, yes, but not often, because

it's just gone. I just let it leave my body. But seven years after my mother died, I was shocked by having this sense of my mother being with me and that being a good thing. Because I couldn't, at first I wouldn't even hang a picture of her in my house. And then I got to her. After that, I did have a picture of her. I have a picture of her where she was about 12. And I had a at hanging in my house. So that really changed over that period of time, but that sense of I'm not alone in the kitchen. My mother's with me in a positive way.

I was five or six years old. We were at the first house I lived in out in the country, and I remember men coming in multiple cars, and I remember seeing my mom on the front porch and she took money from the men. And then I was one of the trees, so it was close to where my swing set was. They tied a rope to the tree,

and they tied the rope around my neck. I was sexually abused I was by one man he would hand me to the next man and I knew enough to know that I would be killed if he'd just let go the reason I knew that is that's how they killed my kittens

they made me and my sister stand there and watch our kittens being killed and they killed our kittens by ritualistically they threw the kittens at the side of the the house one at a time and then they put the kittens in water it was like the kittens were killed in the various ways someone could be killed so a man would sexually abuse me and then hand me to

another man and there were five or six men the rope was cut and I was on the ground and they um the use bathroom on me, the men did. And one of the men got mad at my dad and said, you went too far, she's going to die. And my dad said, she's mine. I can do what I want. I remember searching for my mother's eyes because I thought maybe my mother would have compassion for me,

but she didn't. When she did look at me, it was like she was looking at an insect. like I was I was not even as valuable as an animal and I looked up at the sky and I saw this bright light I don't know whether God was showing himself herself to me or whether it was a near-death experience or whether it just was the sun coming between the clouds but I know I really connected with God in that moment and in that moment it was like God was telling me you're going to get to grow up and you're going to get to

be a good mom and that has been my mission in life in so many ways I mean as a foster mom is a social worker as as a biological you know mother grandmother after that my mother brought me into the house and bathed me and it seemed like she was being kind to me and then she put me on a bed that had brand new sheets on it that smelled good and then she came in and she fondled me it felt like i couldn't like i had trusted god and then how can i trust god do you know that something like this would happen i think my mother probably had actual separate personality and that she had a personality where she did not remember. She didn't know she was an abuser.

So in 1993, I broke contact with my parents, but at least three of my siblings have tried to contact me to get me back in contact with my mother. And they also would try to convince me that my memories aren't true. But do you believe they knew that it was true? I'll say it real clearly. I know that my brothers and sister were abused because I saw them being abused

and they saw me being abused. So they say I'm crazy and it didn't happen. That's what they say. I don't know why they say that, but I do know that they saw it. So some people will say, well, maybe they just didn't know

because they weren't abused. that's not true. How do you feel about them today? I love them. I do love them. I do love my siblings. When was the last time you spoke to them? Well, they were invited to a wedding that I was invited to. And I went to the wedding because I cared about the Brian girl.

And that wedding took place in 2009. When my father died, he left this will, he disinherited me, which that wasn't a surprise. And he actually told me on the phone. My most recent phone call with him was Father's Day before he died in November 2006. He asked me, when I sat down, when I went to have the goodbye visit with him, he asked me what jewelry I wanted of my mother's. So I told them, I said, well, she and I had that. the same size ring and I want her wedding ring. She's told me that I would have it. And my sister, my younger sister, her fingers were larger. So anyway, he like asked me and then made a point

to not give it to me. But anyway, I think that we've been why. He may have called me to say, well, you won't be getting any jewelry because your sister-in-law's and sister had taken all of it and and so I know you wanted your mom's wedding ring but that's not available and he said and also I wanted to you I made my will and I disinherited you I said okay and so I really did still want the ring I will say that but this ring my husband Jerry got for me and it is like my mother's except for tier. And so hers had, the diamonds in hers were finger, but not as pretty. So I got this at Nordstrom. I think it's a beautiful ring. And interestingly, it didn't need to be sized. It was

exactly the right size. But anyway, it took me a while to get used to not getting that ring. And I actually, yeah, I actually asked my sister-in-law to show it to me at the wedding I was in, at that 2009 is like, do you want to show me? I didn't, I hadn't met Jerry yet, so I didn't have migraine. I said, I'd like to see my mom's three, what last time? And she did show it to me. She let me see it. She's got to have some conscience. She never met my mother. So I tried for my father and he said that I was disinherited. And I think he expected a big reaction from me and I just said, okay, yeah, that's, that's, I said, okay, that's, and he did expect a reaction on the ring. And I guess I didn't give him that. I just, I internally was like disappointed by

I didn't tell him. So then the next Father's Day, I called him on Father's Day. And I said, it's Father's Day. He said, oh, yes, I know. I said, I'm calling you to let you know, I'm really glad he just inherited me. I'm very happy about that. And I just wanted to even know that. And then he started to have this little conversation Like he was asking me questions That makes no sense We're not having this casual conversation with each other We're not friends, you know

I didn't hang up on him But I just ended the phone call And then he died the next November And I'm glad I had that phone call with him What do you make of that Casual conversation that he tried to have with you? I don't know I don't know

I know that he would find out things about me through my ex-husband. I don't know. You know, people who are abused, which he was as a child, dissociate. And I could see that in him, that dissociation at various times that he'd be to see something really out of the blue. And so in that way, it wasn't that different. And then the other thing is, I don't know, he seemed very familiar with me,

familiar in the way that if I had called an old boy friend, he might have seemed familiar too, didn't answer it in the way that a father would answer his daughter's call. So I don't know what it was. I don't know if he continued to have, oh, I don't even like to think this or say this, but if he continued to have sexual feelings for me, I don't know. When I was three and Before, I used to love my maternal grandfather. I called him Daddy Bob. My mother and him would go into the bedroom. My dad would be at work.

I don't know where my grandma was, maybe taking a nap. But they would set me down at the dining table and give me chocolate-tip cookie dough. And that was my distraction so that my mother and her father could have sex. I remember hearing them in there. I remember that it happened enough times that it didn't seem unusual for it to happen. And then they brought me in. My daddy bub had said that he would never do anything that would hurt. And of course, for a young girl, anyway, it hurt.

It hurt. And I remember how betrayed I felt by Daddy Bub. But the other thing I remember about it is that not only was my mother not protective, she was so jealous of me. And afterwards, she beat me. And she said, I'm his only little girl. I'm his only precious little girl. And she kept saying that to me when she beat me.

And my mom was always like that with her father. I mean, she was born on Valentine's Day, and he would always get her Valentine's candy. and I do remember. I've always remembered my dad getting my mom candy on Valentine's Day, the heart-shaped candy, I would have been about seven or eight. And my mom just breaking out in tears and saying, how dare you do that? My daddy's the only one who can get me, you know, candy. I don't know if my father knew about my mother and her father having sex. I don't know because it didn't happened when he was at home. I mean, he had a job and my mom was a stay-at-home mom, so I don't know. She told the story about me putting these kittens. I dressed them up, dressing up in doll clothes

and putting them in this little bitty suitcase that I had and how then, of course, they suffocated. We got a cat when I was still needing some healing from all these tragedies with kittens. And so When my husband and I got married, then I, that summer before we got married, I kept basically interviewing kittens at a cat shelter I'd go and I'd hold a kitten and see if it was cuddly, and then I'd come back another time, hold the same kitten, see if it was cuddly the second time. Well, anyway, I found a kitten. Her name was Kenyan.

I came back three times, and she was cuddly all three times. So the fourth time I decided I wanted to adopt. her. It was right before our wedding and we were about to leave on a honeymoon right after the wedding. And I asked if they could hold the cat, hold Kenya for a week, you know, so we had time. We were just going to go on a camping trip. And they couldn't do that. So we postponed our honeymoon for Kenya. And yeah, I loved Kenya. She was a theory. She was an extremely cuddly cat. She would run out the door and she was an escape artist like some cats are and then we were moving to another place and I was afraid she would get hurt by running out the door and it was too close I was

afraid she'd get run over so I found another family that wanted her and she now has two mommies and a sister who's a dog and I understand she kind of rules the house so she tells the dog She won't let the dog sit on the dog's usual perch because she, now she's letting the dog share it. But she has said, well, does she have a perch that the dog can't get to? And they're like, oh yeah, she has like three or four of them, but she won't share the, she makes the dog share with her. I don't remember what happened earlier in the day. What I remember was standing for a really long time and my feet being so tired. I had saddle oxfords on and on white socks and my feet just really hurt.

I remember leaning on one side of my foot, the other side of my foot, because I was made to stand for a long time. And what I remember most about it was just how hard it was to keep standing. But what was happening is I was made to watch my father and another man had kind of like an altar or it was outside on our property and they were a ways away and higher on a hill. I was told they were killing babies. They were killing fetuses. But really now I think it was probably animal fetuses. I mean, I couldn't tell the difference,

but I thought it was fetuses and I thought it was human fetuses. What I remember the most about it is how long it took because my feet just got really, really tired. My sister may have been there too. She and I had different color saddle locks. When I was in high school, it was the style to have long straight hair, and I had hair about down to my waist. It was very straight. There were girls who would say, do you iron your hair?

Because that's how straight and how stylish it was. And I didn't get asked out on dates, hardly at all, in high school. I couldn't understand it at the time, but now when I look back, I think I had kind of, like, I'm taken, but I think there's something about me that says like I'm in a relationship, which I am. I'm very happily married to my husband. But as a high schooler, my dad sexually abused me a lot. I mean, he would, the sexual abuse included like him seeing songs to me, him bringing me flowers, him bringing me candies, bring me, lingerie. I mean, it was just all the things that you might do in a romantic relationship. And when we moved from Seattle to Denver, then we got a smaller house than we'd had before. I had my own bedroom. And then my three brothers shared a bedroom. And my little sister was in kind of in basically the closet of the master bedroom. And my dad would come in a lot during that time. But anyway, I wondered why people didn't ask me out, you know, and I even talked to

another girl. She's like, I don't know why, you know, you look real pretty. And so then when I went to college, I went to Christian College, and I got asked out a lot there. So, or some, I got asked out some there. And that was a nice, you know, a nice year for me when I was at that college. I don't know why it was different in college. I know I was happier than I had been, but I do know I got asked out by someone kind of popular and we dated for a while and then he broke up with me and then I think that's when the sexual assault happened

after he'd broken up with me. Do you welcome to memories when you feel like it's coming? Yes, I welcome the memories. but only if the only memories I want are ones that can help me become a better person or can help another survivor heal or grow. And so I don't want all the memories, but the ones, I am very spiritual and I feel like the memories come from God and that God gives me the memories that I need. Actually, I got a massage two weeks ago today and regained some memory during it.

it was of a rape, and I actually had remembered the rape. I knew that this relative had raped me, but I didn't realize how brutal it was. And so I was starting to get memory. I also go to acupuncture sometimes, so I had an acupuncture session a little over two weeks ago on a Friday, and I remember at some point I'd had all these memories. about how brutal that rape was. And I thought, maybe I don't need any more memories, you know, kind of like, God, don't bother me with that. And that day, I started, I noticed it the next day.

I guess I noticed it on Saturday. My arm hurt really bad, the backs of my arm. So then during my massage, I remembered that what this man had done is grab me here hard. And so this is where I was sourced. So I went into the massage sore. I left the massage with basically no pain. But with that memory, and it was a relative. And so I was an adult.

So I was forcibly raped by a relative when I was an adult. And with the extreme abuse like I've experienced, that's often the case is that someone who has known you, can control your mind enough to do something. And so that's what I had thought it was, but it was a very brutal rate. It really had, I knew it was, I knew it was against my will, but I had felt sorry for the person to rape me because I had a relationship with that relative.

And so when I regained the memory, I realized I didn't miss some relationships with some relatives because they were my relatives, but it did change how I thought of everything about that individual. After I remembered that, I could go to sleep much easier. So it's getting rid of this pain. And so I was glad I remembered because it's like that pain is just so stubborn to not go away.

And it's, I could tell, like, this is what I need to remember in order for that pain to go away. I recently got some healing from the KKK atrocity. I'm in a group, Hush No More art therapy group. It's only four women, and it's a group of women who are real supportive of each other. And the people from that group were having a retreat. It was at Niagara Falls, so Hush, No More was sponsoring. a retreat. And one of the women in that group, her first name's Vanessa, so I got there in the morning. She picked me up in the morning. She took me to a hotel and let me just sleep there. She had a

friend that worked at a hotel, so we were able to check in during the day. I slept. But then that night when I slept, my teeth hurt so bad that I really thought I needed to go to the dentist. and they hurt so bad I couldn't sleep and I was just kind of waiting I doze in and out but I was waiting until it was not too early in the morning so I can call Vanessa and see if she get me a dentist appointment it felt like my teeth were being cut out of my mouth it was just excruciating and then again the next day it didn't hurt and so that was when I started getting flashes of the little girl, the little girl who had been killed, the little eight-year-old girl, and I think what happened is I had to see her tortured.

I don't know if it was before or after, but, and it was something to do with her mouth. It wasn't mine, and I think it was after she was shot that they did, in fact, cut her teeth out. And after I remembered that, my teeth didn't hurt anymore. They have not heard anymore. And that evening, when we had a circle, I asked if I could tell. And I did. I told about the little girl who was murdered. And it was so healing.

People came up to me and just hugged me. And I just felt so loved. And I felt kind of a shame like I was wide in here. But no one, no one blamed me. I was a little girl, a little eight-year-old girl, and it really, it really reinforced that none of it, none of it was my fault. Pam Frye, the mother of Dr. Jennifer Fried, Dr. Jennifer Fried, is a researcher, wonderful reputation psychology professor. She's retired now, and I'm in touch with her. but her parents started the False Memory Syndrome Foundation after she disclosed paternal incest.

Well, her mother and her father met each other when their parents were having an affair with each other. So I can't remember, I think it was Peter Fry's mother and Pam Fry's father. I may be the other way around, but when they would have their, I mean, they were living as married people, and then they would get together with each other, and they would bring their kids, and that's how Peter and Pam met each other. So they met each other while they were still children. There's so many red flags with that situation. I mean, so many red flags. And one is, and I tell in my film, Mother's a Molestation, I have footage of me asking Pam Freide, there was a time that Dr. Jennifer Freide, when she was a child, danced nude.

She and another little girl danced nude in front of Peter Fried. They were like 10 years old. And I asked Pam Fried, well, what did you do? And finally Pam Fried said, well, I didn't know about it until a couple of weeks later. Her husband didn't even tell her about this. And she said, I was at work at the time. I mean, how can you discount something that happens when you're not even there? This is someone who's saying, no, my husband never sexually abused my daughter.

Well, isn't that kind of a clue that also Pam Fried lied to me when she said, she said the reason she didn't believe her daughter is her daughter just would never talk to us. There were email correspondence that stacks of papers. There's proof that that's not true. I wrote a book, a memoir, My Life Now, Essays by a Child Sex Trafficking Survivor. I really put so much energy into writing it in a way that it was readable, and yet it had some of the horrendous things in it. So what I did was I did trigger warnings for each essay.

Most of the essays are low-trigger warning. My yoga teacher read it, and she only read the low-trigger warning ones. Then there's some others that are medium. One example is I tell the difference between child sex trafficking and ritualistic abuse. That has all the information someone might need, like a professional, to learn more about it. I did two other essays that are extremely triggering. they are examples of child sex trafficking, examples of ritualistic abuse. I wanted to give examples of ritualistic abuse, so people would have some way of knowing

what satanic ritual abuse or ritualistic child abuse is like. And one of the examples in my own life was I was about four years old. It was after when my brothers was born. my mom was sick and bad for a year after he was born and she always talks about how sick she was but i think what happened was she had a baby during that time i mean she didn't she didn't go other places she didn't go to church she was at home all the time and so she could hide a pregnancy and a baby boy was born and i was told to take care of the baby which i was very nurturing at that age They killed my little brother who, I mean, I have other brothers.

All of us were born in hospitals, but this baby was born at home and was killed at home. But I remember rocking him when he was alive. And, you know, I remember being in that little rocking chair after he died, too. I think that was away. I think rocking in the rocking chair was. something I did to mourn my brother. I don't know. I don't know why this brother was different. I don't know why they wanted to do a, you know, a ritualistic murder at that time. I don't know. And my other one that's extremely triggering is about the Ku Klux Klan murders. My parents were

in the Ku Klux Klan. I believe Dr. D was too. I remember time. being brought to KKK meetings and trafficked, being trafficked at KKK meetings, being sexually abused at, you know, young ages, child pornography being distributed and sold at KKK meetings. I'm not saying that everyone in the Ku Klux Klan is a child abuser, but my parents were not the only ones. When I've gone public about this, some other survivors have come to me and said, I never knew what happened to anyone else. I have, I think, six survivors so far who have contacted me. One of them is black.

Our father was black, her mother. If people know this happens, then maybe the perpetrators can be caught. I would want to believe that it quit happening, but I posted something on a private Facebook page. I'm on private Facebook page for two different ones, one for survivors of familial sex. trafficking, meaning people who were sex trafficked by their own family member. And then there was also one for survivors of sexual assault. I put it on both of those. I only had it up for a little over an hour. And then there was a complaint from some survivors that it was too triggering. So it was too triggering on a private Facebook page that was for survivors of familial sex

trafficking and I took it down but during that hour and a half I found two other survivors one was my age and the little girl was eight in her situation too she saw an eight-year-old girl being murdered and the other one what's significant about her is that she was 29 years old I mean, this is recent. She said my mom's still in the KKK, and I believe she still track Fixed Children. This is not a long time ago. So I knew in that that I needed. I just felt really compelled to tell the story.

It was the summer of 2020 Black Lives Matter summer, and, you know, I'd seen Mr. George Floyd murdered the footage of that. And then the one that really got to me was seeing the bird watcher. I mean, he was a Harvard-educated bird watcher, and he was out watching birds in an area that's not supposed to have dogs, and someone had their dog off leash. He wasn't armed. He just had a camera and dog treats, and she was going to call and say, there's a black man. And that really got to me, and it was like, I have got to do something. And God is just calling me to do something. So I wrote my essay, my parents were pedophiles and KKK members.

Your book is called My Life Now. Yes. And how would you describe your life now with three words? Happy. I can say happy three times. Full, like I'm not lonely now. And children, you know, it's full of children too. So I would say, yeah, I would say.

I'm happy in my marriage, happy with my contact with children, and I'm happy in my deepest self. Would you say you're healed? No, I would say it's a process, and I'm still in that process. My longest essay is how I healed. People ask me, how did you heal? And they expect you to be able to answer in a sentence or two. No, no, it takes a long time for me to answer that one.

So that's my, it's a 10,000 word essay. And the book is worth getting even if it's just for that one. Because if you know someone who has fibromyalgia, if you know someone who has chronic pain, it gives all this information about healing. My emphasis is on healing. And so I have an essay that tells what my life is like now, and it is so wonderful. I have an awesome marriage, the kind of marriage that I would. would read about in novels and didn't think existed. I mean, that kind of marriage. I live in a place

that I really like. My body, I'm almost completely healed. I don't have fibromyalgia anymore. I have such a good life now. I have such a good life now. And I see that. So you will know that there's hope in your future. If you are a survivor, even of this extreme abuse, there's hope in your future. If you're an incest survivor, incest is so horrible. You can't compare it to anything else. It's just horrible, horrible. And if you're a survivor of that, please take care of yourself. And I hope my book can be helpful to you. That's why I wrote it is for people like you who are survivors. When did you tell Jerry about your past? On the second date. the second date

yes but he kept asking questions or maybe even first date I told him I'm not in contact with my parents and that I am an insid survivor I think I told him that on my first date and then second date he wanted to know well I don't see why you can't see your brother anymore I mean that doesn't explain why he was your brother

that doesn't explain and so he kept asking these questions and for me to answer and you say okay let's go bad, let me tell you more. It wasn't just that I'm an ancestor survivor. I'm a survivor of what many people call satanic ritual abuse. It's organized abuse. I need to stay away from people who are in it. And what was his initial reaction? He called me the next day and said, you know, I don't think we should date because I think this, I think he did say these things about your

childhood and your health. And I just, I don't think, you know, this is going to work. And he said, well, can we still be friends? He said, well, yeah. I said, well, does that we not have to start paying for my own movie? It's like, well, no, I can still pay for your movie. So anyway, we kept seeing to other as friends. And he kept dating other people on Match.com. And so I would date people since he was. And then I'd go on these horrible dates. And I'd call him afterwards. They said, I'm really mad at you because I had this date tonight, and this man could only talk about himself and was just critical of everything in the world, and I had to listen to it. And he's like, well, how is that my fault?

They said, well, if you would quit dating people, I would too. But yeah, and then we got married. We got married about a year after we met. So it really wasn't that long, but I was, yeah, I was, I knew he was, he was really the first nice man I had ever dated. Do you remember the initial feeling or reaction you had or no? Well, I heard the story in little pieces. I mean, we went on our first date, she kind of hinted out.

And it was months and months where I just got little pieces of stories. And yes, I had a lot of doubts. This wasn't a love at first sight relationship for me. I mean, I was trying to figure out if she was crazy. out if she was crazy or special or somewhere in between. So, no, I did not. It took me a long time to decide she was truly believable. Every time she puts something on the Internet,

there's a counter posting somewhere. And it's just, you know, anybody who puts himself out in the public is going to get criticism. and I don't think it's any worse for her than anyone else he puts there, their life on the line and online. Try to support her, you know, I'm there. I don't really do much except be there. Some people discount me and I'll get comments on the Internet.

Well, they haven't read my book. They're like, why didn't she just call the police or something? I go into all that. I explain why, you know, why I was just so trapped, why I explain things that I can't explain real quickly on a podcast, and they're in there, the details about the abuse. I do some sort of meditation all the time. Most frequently now I do yen yoga, which is a really slow form of yoga. Sometimes the meditation I do is journaling.

Yeah, I have a lot of journals. The journals and everything that you've been keeping, you told us that one day you're going to pass all of these to somebody else? Yeah, her name's Catherine, and she's a really, really talented filmmaker. I had a hard time finding an editor for my film, Am I Crazy? And I use this one person who I thought would be really good. And he said he had been abused as a child by a medical doctor. And so as I found out more, he told me his son. sister had a says she was abused by their father, but he doesn't believe his sister. So he was

trying, he was like messing up my film. Like he didn't want me to put Eleanor Goldstein and Eleanor Goldstein is the one who said sexual contact between an adult and a child that's not abuse, much to do about nothing. And he didn't want me to put, he's like, she's no lady, you know, she didn't really mean it or well she meant something by it yeah so katherine's the one who she said you have to put that in that has to be in it's excellent footage and so yeah we were working a grand or something and she's like you can't turn in that workpiece without including that i want her to have it and she's also going to inherit some money and then she can use that money so that'll free up her time so she can have

more time to work on the films, or to do things promoting the films, promoting the book, and then she'll also get the revenue from it. Making that film was worth more than being a lie. I mean, if I had to choose the two, really helping other survivors, I would give my life for that. And in essence, I am giving my life for that by This Is My Work.