Rotten Mango - Karen Read’s First Exclusive Interview After MURDER ACQUITTAL - What REALLY Happened At 34 Fairview

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

It’s been about half a year since Karen Read was acquitted of second degree murderer in the death of her former boyfriend, Boston cop John O’Keefe. I thought it was time to answer the long awaited question, ‘hos long until she does an interview?’These are just a FEW of the questions I asked Karen Read in her first exclusive interview after her acquittal... What do you think happened to John O’Keefe the night he died? What happened to the Alberts’ German shepherd Chloe? Did you feel like Aunty Bev (Judge Cannone) had a personal vendetta against you? And if you had to choose, who would you go to dinner with? Lullaby Lally or Spanky Hanky Brennan? Support Karen Read’s civil defense fund at https://www.payit2.com/fundraiser/117290Follow Karen on her new YouTube at ‘The Read Files’ https://youtube.com/@thereadfiles?si=Km_PDfiEqN0SgctMFull show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Badabing, Bataboo. June 10th, 2022, Karen Reid is charged with murder. She is accused of allegedly killing her Boston cop boyfriend, John O'Keefe. Karen, state police, we have a search warrant. I'm in my pajamas. I don't even have shoes on. I'm being charged with second-degree murder now? That's correct.

She didn't step inside. She was accused of running him over, leaving him for dead in the snow, outside of another Boston cop's house. Is that correct? That's correct. For the past three years, Karen Reid has gone through a murder trial, a second murder trial. And finally, June 18, 2025, she is acquitted of murder. Is that correct?

That's correct. And this is her first formal sit-down interview since the acquittal. Welcome to Rotten Mango, Karen. Hi, Stephanie. You were facing life in prison. Yes. June 18th, you get acquitted. What is that feeling in a way that's comparable to something someone watching can understand?

It's probably the opposite of what someone watching would assume I felt. I am still not quite living in an acquittal world. I thought I would just bounce back like on a spring. it hasn't been it hasn't been that way um i don't quite understand why i'm trying to understand why i i haven't felt more celebratory and what i think is that i lived with some very singular emotions fright anger and anxiety it was very intense every waking out of Every hour I thought about my freedom and if I could lose it. And those feelings just don't disappear when a jury foreman says not guilty.

There is of course relief, but I don't just wake up the next day and I'm living the life I lived five years ago. I felt my grief was... grief was being replaced with anger that was then driving this, this adrenaline. And I woke up every day with a real purpose. And I was appreciative that I was free to pursue this purpose. And then all of a sudden, the purpose is gone, thankfully. But I don't have a routine to go back to. it's not there anymore. I don't have a job. I don't have a home anymore.

And I'm just kind of in no man's land. And I still have moments every day. Very brief, like a nanosecond, where I think of something, I need to tell Liza Little this for this witness. Or if God forbid, I'm ever convicted,

I need to make sure I tell my mother this. or it's over the feeling as soon as it starts, but there's definitely some synapses in my head that are still thinking trial hasn't happened yet. It's like when you get ready for the holidays and then you think, wait a minute, did Christmas already happen? It was all this anticipation,

and then it's over in a couple hours in your unwrap presents, and it feels like that. Like I have to ask myself, wait a minute, it's over, right? It happened. I don't need to worry about this anymore. But there's this big void in my body. and in my mind that and physically and what I was doing every day that I don't quite know how to fill.

It's, I just feel like a fish out of water. It's weird. I mean, that's something I was going to ask. It's been like six plus months since the acquittal. Obviously, you don't want to go back to trial, but every day you have to get dressed. You have a mission. There's urgency. Was there like a wave of emotions that hit you after the acquittal that maybe you were suppressing during the trial? The acquittal feels like three years ago. When you say six months, it's like, oh my God, has it only been six months? I already feel like it's been many seasons and many things since then.

I've had such an amazing network of support. More than anyone could ever ask for in this circumstance, emotionally when I needed to let things out, I had people around me that I could lean on. it was more physically that I didn't have the physical appetite. I didn't have the physical energy I had during trial. I've felt just kind of lackluster and just relaxed, but not this drive. Like I feel like I've lost some of this drive.

And it feels like it was just a prolonged, a prolonged. a prolonged response to what the government did to me that I've had these endorphins pushing me, getting me out of bed, keeping me up, working on witness prep during trial and motions in between trials, and then it just shuts off. It was like this supply I had

that never ended for four years. And now it's gone. So I feel physically I'm paying for it. it now. Like I've got to re-learn how to get a regimen and how to source energy and drive every day. Maybe hopefully not ever like it needed to be before June 18th. But some kind of even keel, I haven't found that yet. Do you like wake up in the morning ever like, oh my God, I'm late to court?

And then it's like, okay, I don't have trial. Like, I'm free. I think I would if I were living. I live with my parents most of the time, so I'm not in the environs that I was in during court. But if I stayed at the Marriott and the seaport, the residence in, I may feel that way. I do get those moments of something that I want to tell one of the lawyers.

I want to remember, like, oh, these two dots connect. And then I realized, no, we don't need to know those dots connect anymore. We already addressed it. Thank God. I don't wake up thinking I've got to get to court. I wake up very feeling. very fortunate that I'm not court ordered to be anywhere anymore. It's very, it's very frightening to know you are court ordered. This is not a job or, or school where you should be there. It's

best that you're there, but no one's going to come arrest you if you don't go. And this is two trials plus a hundred pretrial hearings that I am court ordered. It doesn't matter how I feel physically or mentally. I have to be there. And I have to be there. sharp because I'm a member of this team. So it's amazing waking up knowing no one is going to force me to be anywhere today. What did you do the first 24 hours, though, after the Okinaw, like 24 hours? What was that like? The first 24 hours.

Two, what say is the defendant at the bar are not guilty or guilty? Not guilty. What is life going to be like for you now? I spent the whole ride back to the hotel. We were hearing from people at the hotel that the press and the neighborhood were already starting to gather in the parking lot. The hotel we stayed at was like a boutique-style residence in, a very lovely neighborhood in Seaport of Boston called Fort Point. And the local businesses, the restaurants, there was a residential building just across the street from us. It was almost the size of an alley, a very narrow street.

And coincidentally, when I was in my 20s, I lived in that building. When we came back from the hotel, we tried to lose the press a few times. And I think we ended up going in a side alley door to the hotel. But I went to my room. David's room was below me. And I looked across the alley. And there were residents in the apartment building next door that had put congratulatory signs in their windows. Somebody put something with Yanetti's name.

They must have known David's because it was only, well, I guess Alan was up in the corner as well, but it was a window directly. David was below me. It was right adjacent to David's room, but FKR or Grazianetti. So there were people that we had met in the neighborhood that were congregating. A restaurant nearby, I had orchestrated with them. I didn't make any plans until I was acquitted because there was no way I was going to set up any kind of dinner before I actually knew I was going to need that dinner.

So I called the restaurant in the seaport. They gave us a private room. We had been there a few times during trial, and they were amazing. No one knew we were there. And it was my immediate family, my cousins who I'm particularly close to, and my legal team, and my local lawyers brought their families. And that was a very long three-hour journey. It was very overwhelming.

my phone was blowing up I wanted to decompress with my parents I barely even got to speak to them and the waiters coming over and asking if I wanted to do all-a-cart desserts and I'm like I just really want to go back to the hotel and lay on my bed we were getting requests for Good Morning America and the Today Show and people magazine I mean it was all rushing it was just flooding in and I didn't like I don't want to do any of this I need a beat and I I need to figure out how I'm going to tackle all the media. I was very, very overwhelmed. We all went back to the hotel, all the families.

My parents came back. Obviously, all the lawyers were still in town. The following day, I think Liza might have been the first to leave. David was leaving. Bob was leaving. My parents slept in the morning. And Alan and I said, I just want to have a day. He was leaving the second.

day, two days after the verdict. And we just walked around, went to our haunts that we ate at during trial. It's like, we can finally, I'm going to walk in with Alan and have a meal that I've never had with him without this albatross around my neck. I've never eaten a meal or had a bowl of chowder with any of these people as a free woman. And it was a really sunny, warm day. And I ran into someone that I used to work with at Fidelity that I hadn't seen in a long. time. It was just, I felt like I was in a dream, though. I wouldn't say it was like the happiest day of my life. It still hadn't like hit me yet. It just felt surreal. And I felt, I felt sad. Like, where do, so I'm going to go back to the hotel, pack up, pack up my things.

And then where do I go? And everyone else is going, You know, my friends are going to travel back and go back to work, and the lawyers are going to go to other projects. And, you know, even my parents will go back to their routine in my siblings. And it's just, where do I go? I was not planning with 100% certainty. I would be here today. It's weird to live a day that you never planned on.

I never made a plan for June 19th or 20th or the 21st because I didn't want to jinx anything. And I didn't know that I'd be there. I didn't even book a dentist appointment. So it's all of a sudden now I've got nothing. And just very surreal is the best word I can think to describe it. Is it like someone just comes and like shakes your snow globe and then leaves? Yeah, yeah. And everything just settles.

and it just gets like eerily, eerily quiet, like it does after a snowstorm for the plows come through. It's just dark and silent and, and it's still like feels like that. It's getting, I'm starting to feel my way around, like, defining what my life is going to be, but it's getting, it's getting easier,

but I do feel I've had this, delayed reaction to the persecution, not delayed reaction to the persecution, not delayed reaction to the acquittal. I'm finally like reacting to this this horrible thing that happened to me. And I had to swallow it and roll with it. and now I'm digesting it. Like I swallowed something horrible and it's just sat in my body and now I'm finally breaking it down.

I feel like it's, I'm having to address things that I swept under the carpet. Like emotionally, it's, you just, your body kicks into this fight or flight. and my body is very good. My mind is very good at kicking into fight. I work very well under stress and pressure, and it got even better. That characteristic got refined during the last four years. But you can't do that to your body and to your mind

without paying the piper eventually. And I feel like I've had to do that. have you ever like dealt with depression during the trial even now? No, I've never really dealt with it ever. I don't know if it's depression or if it's like PTSD. But no, I didn't feel, I was angry most of the time. Angry and I felt very lucky that it's a disservice. to the people around me who are the most amazing people anyone could ask for.

And I'm not inclined to depression, so I'm not surprised. I mean, I went through a normal grieving process, but I didn't feel down that I had to sell my house and everything in it that I curated myself. I felt, you know, and I had a conversation with Alan that. Don't look at it as the government is robbing you of this. Like they're using your taxes to prosecute you, and you're having to go through every asset and liquidate it. Look at it as an investment you made before you ever knew you'd be in this situation,

and now it's paying off when you need it. And you're going to use this house to save your life. And, you know, I get a lot of words of wisdom, but they don't all resonate, and that did. But I think I really just feel that I've been running on endorphins that are now the spigot just shut off, and I've got to inspire myself in ways like everybody else wakes up. And I look at everyone around me, like get up and live lives

and find inspiration or... physically and mentally and I just have to do that like a normal person now. Like retrain it. Yeah. There's actually some people, perhaps a lot of people out there that think you are sitting on a beach, you are cashing in on a book deal, a documentary deal. Like they think that you are good. You're set.

You're enjoying your life. Is that what it really is like? So we have announced that we're working with a publisher. this is Luke Janklow and a producer in Los Angeles. That's Julie Oren, the movie and TV side of things. So I've only announced that I have agents and I have these producers helping me to sell this. I have made nothing on the documentary. In fact, I lost trying to fight for a piece of the proceeds from the documentary. I went into the documentary thinking that there was this son of Sam law in Massachusetts, which prevents defendants from profiting.

You know, you can't come into crime and then write a book from prison and send your kids to college on the back of this crime. There is no son of Sam law in Massachusetts, which we found out in the middle of making this deal with the documentaries, which was great. So I can get paid at any point in this legal process, even if I were convinced. convicted. We were not paid. I was not paid. No member of my team was paid anything from the documentary. It was very legally involved. I believe I was misled and taken advantage of. And we gave the documentarian our all. I did not see the documentary. I watched the end of the

final episode. I don't know if there were four or five. David, several people told me that was a nice moment with David and me at the end of the last episode. So I did watch that and I liked it. And then I watched Dave and I said goodbye at the hotel. And then the documentary ended with me in my basement at the house I no longer live in with all the legal boxes because the documentary ended at the mistrial. So I think she was trying to show here I am just stuck it, stuck it go again with our paper shredder and our printers. And I think I was like vacuuming the floor. And I was like, all right, I've seen enough.

People close to me who watched the documentary said, based on what I had predicted it would be, it was not that. And I thought this documentary experience has not been fun. It was incredibly invasive, which I knew it would be, but we still gave them more access than they could have ever hoped for. And she, the documentarian, I feel, went out of her work. to excise us from enjoying not one dime of the proceeds. And based on what little I saw and what I've heard of the product, I don't need your money.

You know what you did. You know what we gave you every day. My family, you were in our living quarters. You were in the SUV with us every day. You know what we gave you. And you know what kind of story you had from us. and you used us. You know you did.

And I wish just never to cross pass with you again. I will tell my story with more control. We don't have a book deal. I think Alan and I will be co-authors on a book. There will be no book written by someone, even with just some creative input by me. be written by probably three people, a professional, and then Alan, Alan and I will be helping to tell the story. So I want this to be a story about corruption. I want to have some impact

on the state where I've lived most of my life and where my family's from and where we battle this. I want to make an impact on what people think about politics, about the government, about the dangers of a one-party political system, which is what Massachusetts is. It's not about liberal or conservative. It's about being one party from the founding of that government with no competition, no checks and balances. It becomes almost anarchy like it is now. We've got a district attorney who has a war chest despite not having any

opposition. It's, it's dangerous and I believe that is why I got where I was and why I got into this position and why, until it changes, there will be other Karen reads. You may not hear about them. These, these stories, Sandra Birchmore, it's getting exposed. Other people are exposing it as well. That's what this story will be. And if I have to write it myself, then I'll write it myself. Even on that note, I do feel like I've heard a lot about you. I've heard a lot of clips of you. I've watched the whole documentary series, Body and the Snow. And I feel like you're very different from that, you know, the way that you're presented in the documentary and then versus like when you walked in.

I've gotten very good and I was not good at this in my prior life. I've gotten very good at controlling what I let upset me because so much has been taken from my control with a judge. with the district attorney, with the state police. I've been arrested. I've had my home two years later search for electronics. Once someone comes in your home, you have no safe place anywhere. They've been in my parents' home.

They've been in my house three times. So I've had to learn to control what I can control, which means not falling down a rabbit hole on Twitter, not reading comments on a video on YouTube. And I knew that, I knew I had an idea where this documentary was going before it came out. We ended the relationship with Terry the documentarian on a very bad note, over money, of course. I had former students from Bentley.

I had former colleagues. I had friends that traveled on their dime to interview for this documentary. These are people who knew me in all sorts of facets of life that I was then told those interviews didn't make it in. They didn't make it in, yeah. But John's sister-in-law, who, to the best of my knowledge and to everyone's knowledge, I would guess, knows they didn't have the tightest relationship. Or a friend of his, there's been two friends of his, I have never met. I was with John nearly every day for two years.

I had dated him 20 years before that. And there's some guy and an old girlfriend. who I never met. This is the closest you could find to John, people who never saw John and me interact. And yet I gave you, I gave you friends. I gave you people from my parish, students, colleagues, and none of it made it in.

So when the documentary came out, and I can't even remember when that was, I made a concerted effort. I will not watch that. What is the point to get upset? Because I know what didn't make it in. And people come up to me all the time that I saw the documentary. It was, wow, what a story it told.

And I can't believe what you went through. But my family and friends that saw it, no one's raved about it because they don't feel it portrayed me. But I wasn't, I'm not surprised. I was cast in a light that is not realistic. Yeah. During our four-part series on Karen Reid's case, I mean, that's over like 10 hours long. Just with the sheer amount of people that were involved, we did have to resort to coming up with nicknames or monikers. Some of our own creations, some that we've adopted from social media discourse.

And out of just pure habit and pure personal style, I might still be referring to some of these people with that nickname. We called Brian Higgins, Brian Haha Higgins, Michael Proctor, Michael No Nudes Proctor. That was literally just so people could have an idea of who we're talking about when we mention a name. if I do that, that is not Karen poking fun at anyone. Honestly, she'd probably prefer that I don't use these nicknames, but I probably will throughout this episode. And on top of that, another disclaimer is Karen is right now involved in multiple civil lawsuits involving a ton of different people. So there might be some questions that she cannot answer legally, and that's just for legal purposes. So with that being said, what do you think happened to John O'Keefe?

John O'Keefe entered the garage or the house at 34 Fairview and sooner, much sooner than later, met his demise. Based on his injuries, it looks to me like he got into a fight and fell backwards. There was not a single pathologist in either trial that didn't say the mortal wound came from falling backwards and hitting his head that was agreed on. He had bruises on his hands. The prosecution tried to say that those came from IVs, but I've had many IVs. I've had him in my hands, and my hands never looked like that. But I dropped him off. He went up to the breezeway, and 6 a.m., I find him in a heap,

missing his hat, missing his shoe, and laying there with a piece of glass in his face. So someone in that house killed. John O'Keefe. The Alberts have stated that they were asleep. And there's footage of you. There's body cam footage of you, like screaming, dash cam footage. How loud were you screaming? Because there's all these comments about, oh, the wind, the blizzard.

I've done research and my understanding is that the snow can muffle sounds. I don't need to wonder if Brian Albert and Nicole Albert, were awake, according to the Commonwealth's own witness. Mine as well, but there's as well. Ian Wiffin, Nicole Albert at 5 a.m. has an answered phone call from Jen McCabe, answered and deleted. Furthermore, Nicole Albert at 607 a.m. and 608 a.m.

has two more phone calls. each lasting about seven seconds from Jen McCabe answered and deleted. This is not conjecture. This is not my theory. This is in the data. Pour over my phone records. By the way, I had no deleted calls, no deleted Google searches. I actually didn't have any Google searches at all.

But I know from the data, according to the data, unless the data is wrong. And this is Celebrite that was just used to help convict Brian Walsh of murdering his wife. The same celebrate used by law enforcement globally is telling me that Nicole Albert's phone answered a call from her sister at 5 a.m. and then two more at 6 a.m. So that would lead me to assume that Nicole Albert was awake. Have you guys ever tried to recreate? the quote unquote butt dials? No, because it's not possible. It's not possible.

I have called people, and we jokingly, my friends and I and my family and I, we say but dial when we mean, like I may be scrolling through my call log and I accidentally activate that name and it calls. Or someone sent me their number on Instagram and I went to press it down and copy it so then I could save it in my contacts and it called them.

And then I'll say, ha-ha, butt dial. Yeah. But it wasn't an actual accidental phone call made while the phone was completely inert. That's what they're saying butt dials are. Even if you're able to inadvertently make a phone call, they're all doing it in the middle of the night. All of them. Higgins is saying he made a butt dial. Brian Albert is saying it was a butt dial.

Well, it's kind of like a butt dial. I believe I used the word butt dials. Well, I used a phrase, the people commonly used as a but dial. Not just a butt dial, but a butt answer and a butt hang up. Yeah. On both ends. So you're saying you accidentally called him.

He accidentally answered. He accidentally hung up. And then you accidentally hung up. Jen McCabe said the slew of phone calls to John at, at quarter of one, between 12, 30 and 1 o'clock, she had over a dozen phone calls to John. She's claiming those were all but dials. What are the chances these people who were together all night

are engaging in, if you count them, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 butt phone actions, answering, dialing, hanging up. They appear, they, meaning the Alberts, McCabes, and Higgins, appear to have kept it simple and agreed to several mantras and just those mantras. One of them was but dials and the other, I don't recall or not that I recall. I don't remember. I don't recall. I don't remember. I don't recall. I don't recall. I don't recall. I do not recall heaven. I don't recall. I don't recall. I do not recall. I don't recall.

I don't remember. I don't remember if I was time. If they were coached, it was smart. Keep it simple. Because when they start to add details to their renditions of what happened that night, they're completely inconsistent. Brian Higgins said his Jeep was parked in front of the house. He backed it up.

He had a plow. He went into great detail. And he jokingly plowed some snow for Brian. and Nicole to pull in and then Matt and Jen, and then he Veed out and pulled in front of the house by the mailbox. Yet Jen McCabe didn't see the car, and she was apparently on Nightwatch

at the front door and never saw a Jeep. A Jeep of the plow, which is something memorable. Ryan Nagel, Ricky Dan Tono, and Heather Maxon were behind me. They never saw the Jeep, so my point being, their group thought is simple, but as soon as you require details from these people, Their stories are all over the place.

Do you think Chloe the Albert's German Shepherd is still alive? This is the question I get asked the most is what happened to the dog. And I realize I do not have a dog. I realize this is where society is we, a lot of us love dogs more than we love people or just as much. But I get this question constantly. I have no idea what happened to Chloe. based on what I know, I would guess the dog is dead. I don't believe it's the dog they claim it is up in New Hampshire.

We asked for proof, and all they gave was animal control vaccination records that I can literally go to animal control and get a copy of the vaccination records. And this woman in New Hampshire, who we have no address, no phone number for, she's claiming this is the dog, this is his birthday, and this is his vaccination. Well, anybody can get that. At what point in the investigation did you feel like, okay, this is not an investigation into a tragic accident? I'm being framed. Like, what is there a moment, a specific moment, it hits you?

So they had my phone in my car within a half hour of coming to my parents' house. So they left my parents at 4.15 on January 29. They took my phone and they took the car. I was hoping desperately, this is a case of they've got. the wrong guy. I'm arrested on February 1st and then I'm arraigned the next morning. I hadn't met in person, David Yenetti, but I had already engaged with him on January 29th. He comes to the holding cell at the courthouse in Stoughton and he has one copy of the police report that Michael, Michael Proctor authored. He's holding the police report. Now, they're already calling my case at 9 a.m.

It's like 9.10. And I don't know what I'm walking into. I don't know what they have against me. I don't know anything. David is holding the police report and we're reading it together. They only gave him one copy. So his hands between the bars, I'm leaning in and we're reading it quick.

I don't know how I had the focus to even comprehend and read at that moment. It was like just another fight or flight that focus, Karen, this is about to be read in front of a courtroom filled with people. The first thing that stood out to me was, it said they arrived at my parents' house. Proctor and Buknik, arrived at my parents' house at 4.30 p.m. and left at 5.30 p.m. and I knew right away that was wrong. I've lived in New England most of my life. 5.30 in the middle of January is pitch black outside.

4.30 p.m. is almost pitch black outside. And I knew when they left my house, my parents' house, it was still somewhat light outside because I remember watching the flatbed with my truck go by the front window. I knew they had gotten to the house around 3 o'clock, and I knew they weren't there for two and a half hours. So I thought, well, maybe this is how police reports are written initially in a cursory fashion, that they're approximate times, and then we can tighten timelines later, but that always bothered me.

And then every affidavit that was accompanying every seizure of evidence after that kept saying the same thing, that on January 29th, we went to the house in Dighton at 4.30. we left at 5.30. So that was the first time I thought, all right, we're dealing with very sloppy, imprecise police. That was my first inkling that this isn't completely ticked and tied. After I was released from the arraignment on February 2nd, that evening, David called me.

David Yonetti called me and said he had got an anonymous phone call from someone saying, you need to pay attention to who lives in the house. I had not even thought about the the Alberts. Not one way or the other, just that I knew that was their house and they had been with us the night before and I had met them for the first time a week before that. So it was very early on. I've been lucky that very early on and at regular intervals since I have been given gifts of information that helped buoy me. I can't tell you hearing that information from David. And so, of course, as soon as David says, this anonymous caller says, look at the owner of the house, I start Googling Brian Albert. And it's within seconds.

I find a Google video of him in a boxing ring beating people up. And he looks, I've met him, but I haven't paid much attention to him. But he sounds gruff. And he's walking into some drug bust with some kind of shield and weapons. And he just, he looked like a tough meat. mean, mean guy. Mind you, though, at this time, I didn't know John's injuries in detail.

When I found him, he had a cut on his, on his nose on his left side, and he had a cut above his right eye. He had blood coming out of his nose, and his eyes were like eggs. But I didn't know if he had broken ribs or his femur was sticking out of his body. I mean, it didn't seem to be,

but I didn't know if he had internal bleeding. I didn't know until I saw the hospital photos in May how obvious it was that this body was not hit by a car or anything like a car. And this body looks like it was beaten up. So it's it was every couple months. So we got that tip. We didn't get much. March and April of 2022 were very tough. John was in my life.

so much, so thickly, and then he wasn't anymore. It was the only relationship I've had, and I've had many that, I mean, I'm 45, and I've been dating since I was a teenager, that ended with such finality. I can't call him when I'm out in Boston at 1 a.m. when the bar closes like I did when I was in my 20s. I can't miss him in a few weeks and say, just thinking of you. or can I drop by and see you. I've never been forced to deal with such finality. I've never had a death that close to me.

So March and April were difficult. There just wasn't anything going on. We weren't getting any police reports. I still didn't know what they were using to charge me. And it was in May that they finally released the photos that were taken of him at the hospital and then the autopsy, two different events. and it was very obvious to me. This is not what they're claiming.

There's a cracked tail light on my car. And John is pristine, pristine from the neck down with the exception of his right arm. And coupling that, and David continued to get this anonymous tip to look at Brian Albert. Coupling those together, it gave me hope that I may be able to figure out what happened. What happened?

We saw the footage of the second arrest, which was probably one of the more shocking pieces of footage connected to your case. You had no idea that they were coming because you're just in short pajamas and you're begging to change before they take you in. And then eventually they mock you because you beg to change. And they're like, look at how much she cares about being on TV. Have you seen the footage? I have seen stills of it, but I've steered clear.

It is very difficult for me. And I've warned my parents not to, I think my dad just watches everything, but I've warned them not to. I'm being charged with second-degree murder now? That's correct. I have no idea what this is about now. This is about the same exact incident, okay?

Where's the medication? Can I use the ladies' room? I understand. We're going to call your parents, and they can come over and retrieve any item you need or want. I can't put... Hold on, hold on. What about the shoe wear?

What kind of footway do you? Anything, but can I, these guys, I don't even have underwear. Can I put pants on? Again, your pants can come over here and retrieve anything? We'll get that medication for you and- Can I put pants on, please? Can you just step up overside, please? Where are your pants?

Um, at the foot of my bed. Can I have a pair of cheese? We'll go get them. In the meantime, let's follow you, follow this trooper right here, all right? But where can I put my pants on? At the barracks. Can I put them on before I go out of my house, please? That's not part of our person.

of our procedure once she come on a place. Shouldn't I put my jam? You don't have a chance to change. Do the barracks. Have a seat there for me? Then you gotta put that in your floor, it's double lock. See how crazy she?

She's more concerned when she looks like some TV. Yeah. I'm still recording just all you know. Okay. I have seen the footage from my own backyard camera after I was arrested the first time And once I started to figure out what was happening, I was frightened. I was frightened about who is on the other side, who was on the law enforcement side that is trying to pin this on me.

And who killed John that could be in my backyard right now? And then I learned about Sandra Birchmore. I did worry. I live alone. I'm like a sitting duck. Will I be hanging from a door knob in my house? And they could easily explain. it as guilt, depression over what had happened, and she just gave up. So the first six months of

2022 were difficult. I had not even been explained to the concept of an upcharge. My understanding was you get indicted on what you were charged for. I didn't realize that the district attorney can present anything he wants to the grand jury, and they can charge me with any kind of They could have charged me with also breaking into the Albert's house and stealing their TV set while I was parked outside. I didn't realize that and shame on me that I didn't learn that. I was trying to learn as much as I could. During these months, I was reading a book every couple days just about the criminal justice system and defending yourself and how this works. But June 9th, I was home alone like I was most days.

I would do yard work. I'd put headphones in. I'd wait for one of the lawyers to call. I had been mowing the lawn. I hadn't showered yet. I was wearing boxers. And I actually just had a tank top on. I didn't have any underwear on. And I came in from doing yard work and I decided I was going to cook for myself. I mean, this was my catharsis. I would go outside. I'd tried to get sun. I did a lot of, asked my neighbors, I was out in my yard every day, just trying to sweat at least physically tire myself out so I could sleep at night. And I was cooking. I was trying to eat well. So I was making a pot of chili. I was finishing everything up. I had, I had music on. And all of a sudden, I hear voices. And I lower the music. I go to the front door. And my windows are open. My

storm door is closed, but the screen is up. And I heard a voice say, let's do this in the back. There's cameras out front. I had a very clear, it wasn't a ring doorbell. It wasn't a ring doorbell. It was a private security system, but there was very visible camera over the front door. But I also had them 360 around my whole property. So I heard that voice, let's do this around back. There's cameras out here. I see two cops. I couldn't make out who they were, but I could see them walking around by the garage of my property,

which kind of requires you to go down into the driveway. The garage sits under the house and then up a hill into my backyard. So I start shaking. I look out a window. I see there's a Mansfield, the town I lived in Mansfield, Massachusetts Cruiser, and then I think two unmarked cars, maybe there was a third. And I thought that something's happening. The first person I see, now I'm looking out the back window, I'm reaching for my cell phone. I see Michael Proctor in plain clothes walking by himself. Now he's soon to be followed by Buknik and another state trooper, I believe, and a Mansfield cop.

I think the state police have to call in local assist whenever they're in a different jurisdiction. For a split second, I thought Michael Proctor was there to hurt me. I had no idea. Why is he here? Why is he in plain clothes? Why is he at my back door, which is almost in the woods? There's no inviting path to my back door.

You'd have no reason to go looking for my back door. door. I called David Yonetti and it's just like a dream where you just can't dial the number or you're trying to text and you can't get the text right. And it's like that in real life. Like your hands are shaking and you, I think I dialed his number like three or four times before I finally was able to dial it correctly. And I said, David, Proctor's here. There's police here. I don't know what they're doing. And I can't remember if David told me that he had just gotten a phone call

that I was indicted or if he guessed they may have just indicted you. I knew that they were close to I was hearing through the grapevine that people were testifying. So I can't remember exactly what David said to me.

I then, I think I either called my dad. I think I called my dad. And I said, Daddy, I think I'm getting arrested again. My poor dad, he, I know that was the worst, one of the worst moments of this whole thing, because we were just completely bewildered. What now? So I take the phone. It's still dialed in.

I'm connected to David. I'm in my pajamas. I don't even have shoes on. I'm being charged with second degree murder now. That's correct. I deal homicides and leaving the scene, causing death and end up while the end. I walk outside. One of the first thing that happens, Proctor is reading me.

He's reading me my rights and he's telling me that I've been charged with murder. And Buknik in the middle of all this, I'm trying to, I'm on sensory overload, but I'm trying to absorb what's going on. Buknik takes my cell phone and goes, I'll be taking that. And he puts the cell phone still connected to David Yonetti in his, in his pocket. There is no search warrant for that phone. That is not the phone I had on January 29th. They already have that phone. So they did for some period of time have my replacement cell phone and who knows who knows what they did with it.

I know when they took it, there was an active line open to David Yonetti. So I know when Buknik took the phone, there was at least an open line. So while Proctor's reading this to me, the indictment and my rights, he starts pinning my arms behind my back and I'm trying to move away from him. Yeah. Because I still don't understand. I've done everything. I've shown up at every hearing. I'm at my house.

I haven't broken the law. I haven't driven. Why am I being arrested? I did hear the word murder, so there's gears grinding in my head that something's gotten worse here. So he's trying to pin my arms and cuff me, and I'm trying to move away from him.

And at the same time, I'm saying to him, I haven't heard the tape, but my recollection is I'm saying to him, can I please have some clothes? I'm not even wearing underwear. I've had a calasomy bag at four different periods in my life. So leaving anywhere without pants or underwear or certain materials that I need is of the utmost embarrassment.

And Proctor knows this. He said, I did see a clip of him saying she's worried what, because I think it was on TV. Yes. He said she's worried what she looks like for the cameras. All she can think about is the camera. He says, you see how crazy she is. She is more concerned about how she looks on TV.

See how crazy she? She's more concerned when she looks like on TV. Yeah. More of Proctor misrepresenting everything, including that. First of all, the only reason cameras were there is because the district attorney or the state police called cameras. I arrived at the state police barracks an hour later, and they were all there. I was escorted from the barracks.

escorted from the barracks the next morning for my arraignment, and they were all there, and they were all at the courthouse. So the only reason cameras are involved is because you're parading me and trying to make a case out of this. You're trying to show me looking this way like a criminal, and that's why you call the cameras in. But I should be allowed to put pants on or shoes. So Buicknick goes into my house. I see him on my own my own home surveillance system, He's in my house for about 10 minutes. I told him where my closet was, where the room was. I was a professional wearing suits and professional attire my whole career.

I have a closet filled with these clothes. And I directed him to that closet. He instead goes to the barracks with a pair of flip-flops. I don't know where he found them from. My Javianas that I wear to the beach and ripped jeans. that I had just taken off from mowing my lawn. They had holes. They didn't cover my ankles.

I would never wear these jeans. The grass stains. I can't remember if they gave me the clothes to wear that night in the cell or if he gave him to me before I went to court in the morning. A girlfriend of mine came to the barracks in the middle of the night

with court clothes, with black pants, a black top, and black shoes. and they would not allow me to put those clothes on for court. So I heard her come in. I was in a cell and she said, can I give these for Karen for the morning? And they said something to her like, we can't guarantee that, but we'll take them.

They gave them to me at some point the next day. They didn't allow me to put them on. Instead, they forced me to take the bag of clothes that Buknik had secured, which was ripped jeans and flip-flops. That night was one of the worst night of my life in the past four years because I called David

from jail and he he was worried he was he was not able to tell me anything to allay my fright I mean it's not concerned it was fright

and he said they've upcharged you with murder I don't know how they're able to do that on what evidence but they've increased the charges they they want to keep you locked up now through trial, through verdict. But if we're asking for bail, they're requesting a million dollars, which of course I did not have. So I spent the night knowing that, that I've got to go before a judge tomorrow.

I didn't know what judge it would be. And I have to hope they lower this bill, that they allow me to post it. A judge can deny you bail altogether, that you're a danger to society, you've been indicted for murder, you're not going home. There are active lawsuits between you and Michael Proctor, amongst others, you know, so there's some things that you can't say, but there are things that are indisputable. So Michael Proctor himself has admitted that he has texted people in group chats. He texted that he hasn't found your nudes yet.

He talked about and made fun of your medical condition, saying, quote, she's got a leaky balloon knot, it leaks poo, calling you a quote, whack job cut and then basically saying you are a babe with no ass. She's got a leaky balloon knot. You followed that up with the phrase leaks poo, didn't you? I did. Yeah, she's a babe. Weird fall river accent, though. No ass.

When did you first find out about these text messages? What was going on in your mind? I knew there were vile text messages. They were under a federal protective order. They were first encountered by my team, by my lawyers in February of 2024, just before the first trial. I was not able to view these text messages. I just knew the generals that they existed, and I knew they were involved in the cross-examination prep, which I was very involved in.

To have him, Michael Proctor himself, on the stand, reading out what he sent, what's going on in your mind? There had been some leaks on Twitter that I saw an account, we called her a client, which I assumed someone like him uses language like that anyway. I knew in general that they were vile, but when he read them, I was actually annoyed that Adam Lally preempted us. bringing these messages out in cross-examination, that should have been our moment. He's your lead detective. You're letting him lay this case out. This is showing bias.

And you always run into this issue with trial that if the evidence has already come out, you risk the judge saying, Mr. Jackson, Mr. Yonetti, that's already been asked and answered. So there was this worry that Lally is going to let Proctor read the text messages, with very flat affect.

And he did. You could barely understand. She's a babe with no, she has a leaky balloon, and next question, you know, it was by design. Let's get him out there and preempt the defense from getting it out there. Luckily, we were still allowed, and we made the biggest moment of it.

I cared more about his lies. What he said about me and my anatomy, it's disgusting but it did not embarrass me Michael Proctor does not have the ability to embarrass me in fact I have all that I have in my life right now and the love and support and new endeavors such as this and meeting people like you ironically because of Michael Proctor and what he tried to do to me joking about my appell I mean, I don't even want to say it was a joke. He was talking about my rectum and that I've had rectal surgery.

That this is a father of children, of boys scarily. This is a husband of a woman, someone's son. This is a cop with power and carrying a gun and my age, more or less. And this is what he taught. This is his vernacular, a balloon knot and talking. talking about my rectum, you're not embarrassing me. You're embarrassing yourself. And my medical issues, I've never been embarrassed by.

I've struggled to deal with them in society and in intimate situations. But I'm proud of what I've had to deal with. And the more I talk to people and the older I grow, I know everyone's got something. No one's escaping completely in one piece as we, as we age. I cared more about his lies. Him lying so blatantly, every search warrant,

nine of them took the car at 530, took the car at 530. Why, why, why? Because the cert team, and this was another major lamp post in 2022 for me, was when I was finally indicted after the awful experience of June 9th into June 10th. The floodgates opened, and now we get all the discovery. And a cousin of mine,

who's an attorney, we agreed. We'd get the discovery, which was thousands and thousands of pages. And we attacked it from, I think she went from the beginning to the middle, and I went from the end to the middle. And she was, she's a lobbyist. She was working full time. But every night she went home. I worked on it all day. She worked on it all night. And she called me one night. This isn't about July. So I've been indicted now and up charge for a month and we're working our way through our discovery. I don't know what day. I would be guessing, but it was like a Thursday, a weeknight. She calls me at about 10 or 11 and she said, Karen, read the cert report. This is the crime scene services search team. It's eight and a half by 11 piece of paper and there's a whole box

for a narrative about the evidence that was found at 34 Fearview. And there's only four lines that I needed glasses to read what they said. And it was that the first pieces of red and clear lens were found at 34 Fairview. I can't remember if the report said 5.45 or 6 p.m. And then all of a sudden it was, my light was not there all day long because that was something I could not reconcile for months and months in 2022.

But how did my daylight get there? How did they somehow find pieces of it broken at John's house from when I hit John's car at 5 in the morning? And were they able to transport those? That's the only thing I could figure out. And I still didn't have an answer as to why he lied about taking my car at 530 when he actually took it and left at 4.15. And it was that night in July, the CERT team did not find taillight until after Proctor had the taillight. and he had to get himself out of Canton at 545. If he's in Dighton at 530 in a blizzard, 35 miles from Canton,

there's no way he can be in Canton with the Lexus and the Lexus's red taillight at 545. And it just, it was just the biggest eureka of more than the text messages, more than the butt dials, more than the phone and the SIM card cut up at the Air Force base. To me, it was the cornerstone because it just bothered me. I just couldn't reconcile how did my tail light get there? I know I did not break my taillight at 35. I tried to think of every scenario in which I could have,

and none of it was reasonable. And then I realized that moment it was placed there after they had access to it. And the inverted footage. And the inverted footage. I mean, the inverted footage didn't come for two more years. But when Proctor was on the stand. reading the messages.

He's a whack job. See you. Objection. So these are your words, Trooper Proctor? Yes, Charano. Go ahead and say them. I'm going through his re-u-fitted client's phone right now, correct?

Yes, after the picture, sir, yes. Who's the client? I was referring to Ms. Freed. He also called her retarded, correct? That is what's written. And that's what you read. I have no memory of reading that. I acknowledged him going through the phone on my Apple Watch.

I have no memory of him writing retarded on a text message. Did you encourage that statement by Michael Proctor by liking it with a thumbs up? I don't know if it encouraged him, but so I cannot. cannot speak to that. But that's what you did. I acknowledge the text message being sent. Could you read all of them, please? These are not my words. I'm not really comfortable reading these. Do I have to say these words out loud? I'll say the words and I'm going to ask you if I'm reading accurately. Is that better? Yes. 11 p.m. 5 minutes, 57 seconds. Mr. Proctor says from all accounts, he didn't do a thing wrong. She's a whack job and then uses the C word to describe.

Is that accurate? That's accurate. At the bottom from one member in the group stating, oh, she's skating? Yes. Mr. Proctor responds, zero chance she's skated. She's effed. She's fucked. Yes.

And then one person in the group says, no ass bitch. Yes, that's accurate. Mr. Proctor, there's a response. Laugh that, quote, no ass bitch. Yes. Somebody in the group says, is that chick a smoke? And then the same person follows up with a question mark. Accurate.

Mr. Prock responds, eh, eH. Yes. Nut bag, as my chief would say. Yes. She's got a leaky balloon knot. Yes. Leaks poo. Yes.

Are those the words of Mr. Proctor? They are. Did that read those accurately? You did. You're still friends with him? I am. He could be a pig and I could still be guilty. That's why I wanted the focus.

of the jury to be on Proctor's lies and the actual framing and how was this orchestrated and not on the fact that this man is a vile pig who talks about people's rectums. You could still have a guilty woman and just a very unprofessional investigator. I cared much more about the lies that. That enabled him to pull off what he pulled off. And the text messages were just, I just spent my energy assuring my parents that do not feel bad for me. This men does not have that power over me.

Anyone who looks at me differently because some stranger who's never seen me naked is going to talk about my anatomy. Anyone who finds that entertaining or is going to judge me for, isn't anybody I want in my life anyway. Yeah. During the trial, you're sitting there. The witnesses are going up onto the stand. They're testifying.

They're like, Karen did this. Karen said this. How do you not go up and testify? Do you not have the urge to be like, no, let me tell you? I did have the urge. And I tried to quell that and to satiate it by doing the documentary so that I could go back to the hotel at night and be interviewed. The judge was appearing to be so much more lenient.

with her rulings with the prosecution than she was with us. I mean, we had to fight for everything. And it seemed to be a one-way street that there was a worry, if I testified, the prosecutor, especially Brennan, he was, he seemed to be given even more latitude than Lally was. He did this with our witnesses. He was putting words in their mouths in his questions of those witnesses. Not exactly, but for example, something like he would say to Dr. Wolf from ARCA.

So after a car has backed up 60 feet at 20 miles an hour and damaged this arm, then did the car keep going? Like you can't testify for the witness. Wolf has to agree that that car, I can't remember the numbers anymore. I used to know them with precision and now I don't. but he would ask a question and insert the answer he wanted, which he shouldn't be allowed to do, but he was. So there was real risk, same with risks putting Proctor on the stand, that we're not playing by the same rules that Brennan was just so unethical in his questioning. I was really all right. I had lived three years before the first trial of long hearings, battling for things.

I was getting used to it at this point. I don't think the public really started paying attention outside of the local market, really started paying attention until trial. But we had hours and hours of hearings for three years, including two arrests where I was in chains, shackled and handcuffed. So I had gotten very good at venting to the people

that were there to be vented to. And I knew if I can escape this hell, I will be able to get my side out. So it wasn't as bad as people think, like, how did you watch this person and not scream? I felt very close to God. I felt my parents' presence behind me. I had my lawyers who became, like, family, all of them to me.

And I knew they were frustrated on my behalf. And I knew the public, especially by the second trial, the public knew what was happening that, Karen, this isn't your scourge. This is not your cross alone. Everybody behind you and around you is carrying it. Do not let it eat at you. Do not let that person control you. And they were all so, so repetitive and so like one another. Like, I don't recall. And it was a, defendant and I wish I'd known I wish I had gone outside and I it was it was it wasn't laughable it was very serious but it was very predictable and and I hope it was transparent to the jury and

apparently it was to both juries because I was acquitted both times yeah did you get a vibe that auntiebev did not like you yeah judge canoni yes yes I felt that judge canoni did not I felt that she had a personal animus towards me. Absolutely. I felt it very early on. In our early hearings in 2022, we wouldn't be called right away because there were other cases. They started prioritizing us and we were drawing such crowds that when we would have a hearing, they would get it started very promptly to help clear the courthouse, get us all in and get us all out, get the media out and then hear other cases. But early on, when it wasn't attracting a big crowd, we would wait our turn. And there'd be other cases and other defendants called.

And I was sitting at a hearing, I think, I want to say it was September of 2022. It was like the first hearing that Allen was on the team for. And we were sitting in the back row, if you're looking at the courtroom on the left side, waiting. And there were maybe four other cases that she called. And every defendant, it was all four men, maybe one woman. Thank you for being here. Thank you for dressing professionally for court. She said this.

It was on repeat for every, thank you for. being here, thank you for dressing professionally to court. This happened multiple hearings. She never said it to me. There were moments that I felt she was, she was ruling unfairly, but as far as not liking me, that was the first indication I felt she may not like me personally for some reason. And then there was a moment with the verdict form in trial one where, I mean, your viewers need to see the verdict form if they, if they haven't, that they then tried to present in the second trial, again, this verdict form. It had just by setup, it had the word guilty eight times and the word not guilty three times. It's visually confusing. It's visually confusing

and it's prejudicing the jurors to think I'm guilty because they just see the word guilty so many times. So Alan is arguing with the court and with the clerk that we want to revise this verdict form. And she's arguing, this is how it's always done, Mr. Jackson. This is how it's done in Massachusetts. I mean, that was the topic of what was happening at the time. And she just kind of dismissed it. And we're done here. And I went, like, just like that. And she said, is this funny, Ms. Reed? Okay. I disagree with you. All right, excuse me, this is funny, Ms. Reed?

All right, we're done. All rise for the court, please. I think it was prejudicial towards me, the defendant, that she chose to characterize my exasperation as making a joke of the proceeding. Is this funny, Ms. Reed? My jurors and the media heard that, and that was a gross mischaracterization.

Judge Canoni knows exactly what my reaction. was. It was one of disbelief and exasperation and frustration. And she addressed me. I'm, I have lawyers here who speak on my behalf. You can address my lawyers who can address me. But you addressing me directly is baiting me. Yeah. To then respond to the court, which will not end well for me. But those, and the list, the list goes on. But her, her calling me out, like, she knows what I'm going through right now. Yeah. She knows how difficult this is for any defendant to stand trial.

When the verdict was read, we were prepared for a sentencing hearing. So my legal team in the days of the verdict watch was split up into two groups. At the hotel, Alan had a suite at one end of the top floor, and Bob Alessie had. had a suite at the other. And we had two teams. Liza, Evan, Allen, and I were working on the closing argument. David, Yonetti, Bob, and Sophie and Sydney, two of our interns, were in Bob's room working on a sentencing hearing. So if, God forbid, I was convicted of anything, which we thought there was a likelihood I could be convicted of the OUI, based on how the first trial ended, hung up looking, jurors were telling us they were looking for an OUI, not a manslaughter

OUI, but just garden variety OUI that was not there. They were working on sentencing that if I was convicted of OUI, we fully expected, I did anyway, my lawyers were split, that Brennan would ask for the maximum two years. So it was such a difficult decision to put the OUI on the slip because I felt I was almost guaranteeing I was going to go to jail that with this district attorney and this judge, if I don't put OUI on, the jury is forced if they want to convict me, it's going to have to do with John's death.

But once I put OUI on, just drunk driving, I'm much more likely, based on the evidence, the blood alcohol taken from the hospital, I'm more likely to get a conviction. And while I'm not facing life in prison, I could be facing two years in prison. I had to have, I got about a dozen character letters. They're called of not friends and family,

but teachers I've had, students I've had, coworkers of mine. And the character letter has to be written on the premise that you are guilty. You're not arguing for my innocence. You have to accept the conviction, but then argue for the judge based on my character and what they know about me personally, that she should go light on sentencing.

So I'm in one room preparing for a full acquittal with Allen's clothes, and then I'm running down the hall and making sure all the letters, the character letters are getting printed, and we have case law for the judge that this is a first time OUI. What do you do for a first time OUI? You suspend their license and they go to a drunk driving class. If Brennan, which we expected was going to argue for jail time, we had to have a robust motion in opposition, why not? So the verdict is read, I'm relieved, but I'm still waiting after the final not guilty, the leaving scene was read. I still have sentencing because I was found guilty of the OUI. So Judge Canoni looks at Hank Brennan and says, and what do you recommend

for sentencing? And this was almost more shocking than the verdict. Truly shocking. Like, I had expected it if I had to bet an appendage. Yeah. had thought if I was convicted of OUI or anything, Brennan would ask for the max sentence. And I thought she would split the baby and say, well, the max is two. I'm going to give her a year, which is still devastating. So she looks to Brennan, and he says,

the Commonwealth recommends one year probation with a suspended license. And she looks at him and says, same as every other first-time offender. And he goes, same as every other first time. And it was like the most charitable thing actually not even charitable. I'm I'm miscalibrated. It was fair. And you're not used to that.

Hey, Mr. Brennan, what's the Commonwealth's recommendation? The Commonwealth moves for sentencing. You recommend probation one-year 24D program. So the standard that everybody else gets on their first time, OUI? Certainly. Okay. So I'm happy to do it. All right. Thank you all. One year probation, one-year probation on document.

number zero zero two. It's the wildest turn of events. I couldn't believe that this man, Brennan, was just arguing in his closing argument two days earlier for me to spend my life in prison. And then he has a moment with a judge that seems favorable to him to send me to jail enough to hurt. A week is enough to hurt. And he says, just slap her on the wrist. I looked at him and it just So wait, is this, were you faking all along? Or you know this is the only way to be saved with your public image is you lost. So now you almost have to be reasonable.

But this is just a big, it just felt like a big game that they call in the jury, they're about to read the verdict. They stuff the courtroom with court officers because if I'm guilty of, if I'm sentenced to anything requiring, incarceration and if I'm convicted of murder, I'm getting cuffed right there on the spot. I can't reach behind and squeeze my mother. I can't hug one of my lawyers. It's over. And I'm walking out the back door. So they surround you and to prevent any outburst and to control me. And then in the blink of an eye, it's, yeah, just make her go to a DUI class. And there's a

parade out front for it too, by the way. It was just, that was the most befuddling of the three months of the second trial was when Brennan said, yeah, just one year probation. I'm like, wait a minute, you've been trying to end my life. Can you at least be consistent? Yeah. And pretend you think I'm a bad person. Can you just finish the charade? And even with the judge. So the standard that everybody else gets on their first time OUI? Certainly. Okay. It was same as every other.

Geez, I haven't felt same as every other defendant at all in this, in this courthouse. That I was still in shock at that I was convicted of the OUI and that Brennan didn't argue. And all that work we did, of course, because we were prepared. We didn't need it. Thank God. But that was one of the more shocking, shocking events of the second trial for me. that is part one of our interview with Karen Reid. We're going to be posting the rest of the audio episode,

as well as the full video interview on our YouTube channel tomorrow, Rotten Mango. So stay tuned. Let me know in the comments, what you think, and stay safe.