Sad Boyz - Career & Identity (w/ Eric Silver)

Episode Date: July 14, 2020

fellow pod boy Eric Silver (@el_silvero, Head of Creative at Multitude) joins the boys to talk personal identity, career ego and jordan's sick ira glass impression for more on Eric's podcasts, including his new sitcom NEXT STOP, check out the links below https://www.nextstopshow.com/ https://www.jointhepartypod.com/ https://multitude.productions/ --- Edited by Tyler May http://tylermaymedia.com/ if you want to take conscious efforts to fighting back against the plague of systemic racism and police brutality, consider checking out/contributing to the organizations below --- RECOMMENDED BLM ORGANIZATIONS Black Visions Collective https://secure.everyaction.com/4omQDAR0oUiUagTu0EG-Ig2 NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund https://www.naacpldf.org/ ACLU Racial Justice Program https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice Atlanta Solidarity Fund https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/support-justiceforgeorgefloyd-protesters-in-atlanta Reclaim The Block https://www.reclaimtheblock.org/home/#about Know Your Rights https://www.knowyourrightscamp.com/

Also, when you said Gary V-ness, it sounded like penis. I just didn't know. Oh, Gary's penis. It's like Gary's mod. That's Gary V's mod. Cool. Eric, you want to know something cool? What? That was the cold open. No! No, no.

Okay, now we are starting the podcast for real. Now we can have a conversation like we just started. What's up, everybody? It's a normal natural today, and I'm here just having the combo. That's the way the show opens, right? Almost certain. What's up, sad boys? It's basketball. Welcome to Sad Boys the show opens, right? Almost certain. Sup, sad boys. It's basketball.

Welcome to sad boys. There we go. Welcome to Source. It's... Welcome to Feelings. Sad boys. A feelings podcast about feelings. We're all boys. We're all boys.

And we all feel. Do you actually just want to take over from here? Yeah, sure. Hi, I'm Eric Silver, the new host of Sad Boys. You might know me from shows such as join the party and being the head of creative and multitude and now i'm running this and i have two guests here on sad boys uh i'm looking at the name it's jorbin and jorbus is that correct we both we just prefer to go by justin yeah collective collectively oh it's like a murder of crows a murder of jorbans

is it you know i you know maybe this is a little problematic of me to say but if you were watching the news and somebody was like there's been a horrific murder of jorbin uh do you think the people would care i i for one think that it wouldn't incite the national outrage that it should because most people would be like i'm sorry did he say jorbin i think i honestly if a friend of a very close friend of mine or family member had passed away and their name was jorbin i regardless of our relationship, I'm probably busy during the day of the funeral. Yeah, it's weird. It's like, God rest his soul, but obviously Jorbin is dead.

He wasn't one for this world. Can you get a styrofoam coffin? In Jewish services, you have something called a yard site where you commemorate people's death day. And you go to Saturday Shabbat services to do that. And at all times, depending on whoever's there, it's whoever's yard site. And they're going to respect that. And sometimes the rabbi reads out whose yard site it is. And they just have the most silliest, most buckwild name.

But you know that their family members are there to respect them and you're like i'm not gonna laugh at jeff dick dicksman i'm not going to that's very funny it's like yeah uh we're here to celebrate the life of helium billium sometimes i think about whether i'd like to go peacefully in my sleep or on my deathbed holding the hand of my ninth beautiful child or if i want like a looney tunes death like here lays jordan here's jordan adiga he ran into a painting of a tunnel on a big at this point i just want whether it's true or not, I just want a really, really bananas eulogy. Or no, not a eulogy.

Like in the paper where they write up what happened. Oh, an obituary. An obituary, yeah. An obituary, yes. I want a really bonkers obituary. Like, Eric Silver, age 79, was known around the downtown as Poker Jim. The downtown of where? Just the downtown.

Of Downtownsville. He's remembered by his children, grandchildren, and a pack of wolves that remembered his scent. That raised him from birth. Jordan, I would like to listen to a true crime podcast that investigated your death by walking into a painting of a tunnel. Yeah, and there's one point they bring in the roadrunner who doesn't say a word. Talk, you son of a bitch. Meep.

Beep, beep. Plink, plink, plink, plink, plink, plink. Yeah, I know. Oh, I thought that was the cold open. Plink, plink, plink, plink, plink, plink, plink. No, Eric knows it. It's plink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink. No, Eric knows it. It's blink, blink, blink, blink. I remember when I saw the painting.

I couldn't believe a man ran into it. Blink, blink, blink, blink. But as I got closer to the story, I fell in love with him and the painting. Blink, blink, blink, blink, blink. Hello, everyone. It's me, Ira Glass. We are going to release the address and personal name of a woman who did not give us the permission to do that. For cash and success.

That was so good, I thought you were playing an Ira Glass recording. Yeah, I was. Could you just do everything as... Which he doesn't, right? All right, wait, Jordan, could you do Ira introducing an episode of Sad Boys? Yeah, absolutely. Hello, could you do Ira introducing an episode of Satellite? Yeah, absolutely. Hello, everyone. It's me, Ira Glass, here from NPR.

And today we're looking at a podcast about, what is it again? Feelings? Feelings. Really? That's the podcast? That's what it's about? Yeah, it's about feelings Now, that is a statement from today's guest, Jarvis Johnson At 2-

Will I cut it out, Mr. Glass? That's my actual address, Mr. Glass I'm Mike Birbiglia, just waiting for Act 2 Just to deliver a great story. What I should have said was. His SSN. And you see, I said Jorvis. But what I should have said was nothing.

Nothing but a guy from the Daily that can't say, here's what else you need to know today. Michael Barbaro. Michael Barbaro. Here's what else. Here's what else. Oh, I today uh michael barbaro here's what else here's what else oh i can do i can do a michael barbaro this is michael barbaro here's the news oh wait fuck uh and here's the news oh fuck i can't say it either okay hold on it's the curse it's a and here's the news you need to know here's the news you need to here's

what else here's what else you need to know today they did an episode like a few weeks back or maybe a couple months back which is literally just a compilation of him trying to say it i did put a few marks in the audio around 25 minutes in my audio file where you say my actual address so i would like that to be removed are you also live streaming to the discord uh all right now we can start the podcast. Uh, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. All right, now we can start the podcast. Yeah, go on. Ding, ding, ding.

Welcome to Sad Boys, a podcast about feelings and other things also. I'm Jordan. I'm dripping my coffee. And I'm Eric. Yeah, it's like, and I'm Michael Barbaro. There's way too many people in this recording. Oh my God, Obama. Yo, it's Barry O. No relation. And I'm here withbaro. There's way too many people in this recording. Oh my God, Obama. Yo, it's Barry O.

No relation. And I'm here with my dog Bo and Michelle and Sasha, Malia and Michael Barbaro. Hey, Obama. It's Ira Glass. Jordan, your Ira Glass is so good. Every time you do it, I think you're playing like like, the beginning of Serial, where he comes in to introduce it. It's so uncanny. Does it help that my Zoom video isn't on right now?

Yeah, definitely. Because I could be Ira Glass doing a dynamite Jordan. Don't let this go to Jordan's head. It's just really good. It might be just, like, the microphone you're using or everything. I'm just telling you it's good. Did you? Yeah. So you really, really like it, huh? I do. I think you're doing a good job.

Jarvis gets to say his name first on the show. Yeah. I could say my name first. Yeah, actually, that would be great. Today we're joined by a very special guest, Eric Silver. That's me. Hello. Thanks for letting me come onto this podcast Because I didn't have a safe space to be sad

But now I can We just thought that you don't often have the opportunity To express yourself on audio Yeah And the few occasions where you've done it are obviously bad And we thought hey hey You know why not give to the less fortunate As the first guest of the new season

Yeah the only time I can express my emotions is through thinly veiled jokes that I put into my Dungeons and Dragons and sitcoms. Eric, for those who aren't familiar with you, who I'm sure are few and far between, how would you describe yourself? Well, that's such a kind question to ask me, Jorbit. Because our topic of today's show is identity. So ASL, Eric. So, yes, cough it out, cough it up. Cough it up. So cough it out, mister.

Like a hard flim. Well, first of all, nine and a half. Thank you very much. That's how tall you are? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nine and a half. What half what what's the unit nine and a half multitudes yeah exactly we measure it by uh mike michael schubert mike schubert's foot nine and a half schubert's yeah nine and a half schubert feet i am the dungeon master of join the party i am the creator and writer of the audio sitcom Next Stop. I am also the head of creative at Multitude, which is an audio collective and studio that has a bunch of different shows under it.

And also, I'm Jewish. I feel like that's always something I want to add onto those things. Do you think we have some listeners that would be concerned by that and if you're against that then stop listening right now there are plenty of podcasts for you unfortunately exactly that is dark no i it's just because i live in new york city have family in long island and express a lot of things loudly i feel like people get that just for my general demeanor but when we're talking about how you want to introduce yourself, I feel like that's always a thing that I want to say

so that I tell them so they're not making assumptions about me. Right. That way they can be accurate. It's like I want to get ahead of that. I heard a rumor about New York. Could you confirm if this is true? Is the pizza different because the water's different? Or are the bagels different because the water's different? Okay, it's actually both. The answer is both. I know's different? Okay, it's actually both.

The answer is both. The water's different in both. I know you're being stupid, but there actually is a reason. New York water isn't technically kosher because... I thought you were going to say, isn't technically water. It's a composite put together by the administration. It's actually... Its scientific name is flavor juice. It doesn't have more in common with goat milk.

It's H3O. It's just one more. Oh, boy. It's an H3H3 production. Jesus Christ. Yeah, because there's an Israeli woman just really close nearby. In a clothing company? Yeah, exactly.

No, it's because it's not actually kosher because there are like microscopic shrimp in it so the water is different if that's true because both pizza dough is about rising and bagels are about boiling them in various ways it is because of the water i know you were joking but there is a reason why it is better no i believe everything you said except do have a clarifying question did you say there are microscopic shrimp into your water? And why is your follow-up statement not, and so I'm moving somewhere else? Because the water is infinitely better than what's on the west coast. I don't care that there are tiny skinned scrimps. Yeah, apparently you get shrimp water. All we have is like fluoride. Delicious shrimp water, I want that.

Yeah, well we were able to kill the shrimp pretty efficiently. Yeah, you just boil like a bunch of dinosaurs in there and you get L.A. water. Well, yes. No further comments there. Let's talk about Gloucestershire water, a reference we all know. I mean, what's the deal with this? The old Stroud tap.

That's where Jordan is located currently and from birth also. I'm located from birth. Yeah, but, yeah, I'm really happy to come on here. I am so happy you're back. I remember meeting you guys when you were talking about Sad Boys at like PodCon 1. So the fact that it's all

the way come back around to this, you were just like, we have this feelings podcast for dudes and I'm like, oh, hello. I would like to be on that. I feel like it's been so long and now I'm on the show. We have a podcast for men be on that. I feel like it's been so long. It's true. And now I'm on the show. Hey, we have a podcast for men. It's about time.

You said that, I believe. I was like, PodCon 1. I think maybe there's been, I don't know, 10 episodes of Sad Boys that came out between PodCon 1 and now, which was two years ago. Because we had a long-ass hiatus. Seriously. But I'm so glad you're back, and i'm so glad that i'm here and uh we're already talking about it and we spent all this time talking before we were like a bunch of fools it's uh it's a precast you know we like to we like to warm it up you have a nice conversation with someone and realize you're not getting a penny of audible sponsorship

from it yeah i have no problem which reminds me uh thanks for that segue jordan today's episode is sponsored by no one that's right um still the case this still the case if you want this space to be occupied by your sponsorship god please let us know we're not picky just kidding we kind of are have we ever said yes to one no no we picky i mean who's to say you won't be the one that we say yes to um it's like we're being courted for marriage i'm so glad we took a hard left into that bit as we return what i was gonna say is all we do is talk about our media stuff and we were talking about like podcasting and youtube and stuff so it is funny that I find myself gravitating towards conversations that are both about emotions and also about media

because it's all I really want to talk about, but I feel like it's such a specific audience of people who I can have intelligent conversations about that. We are intelligent, yes. It's like our vernacular, right? It can be difficult to talk about something else because it's kind of the water cooler conversation. You're all around the water cooler and you're like, what's the deal vernacular, right? Like it can be difficult to talk about something else because it's kind of the water cooler conversation. You're all around the water cooler and you're like, what's the deal with content these days?

I mean, you know what I mean? Like we don't have, well, you have basketball. I don't have sports, but I'd like to. Or some other reference point that people can relate to. But like having that conversation in the community that we're in is always fresh because it's kind of hard to find. Especially when it comes to production-y stuff yeah and i go to therapy regularly but i can only really wait a second not to flex not wait a whole of a second no big deal a lot of stuff to work through yeah i'm always working on me but um i can't know, in a therapy session, expect my therapist to have a lot of context

on the world of media. So in many ways, the most earnest conversations that combine like my work and feelings are those that I have, uh, with the likes of my peers creatively. Sure. Yes. And I mean, like, don't get me wrong. Drew makes good stuff, but he's better as a therapist. Yeah.

It's my, my therapist's YouTube channel is, you know, popping off and he's a big hit with the algorithm, but he doesn't quite get my own personal struggle. Yeah. My therapist just like super loves Joe Rogan. And I can't, I keep trying to explain to her just like there are other podcasts out there. There's not many. So I understand if you get caught up. But are they very long and

mostly not good to that point though i think it's worth saying that like something that i struggle with and let's talk about the larger identity thing and i feel to that jewishness of myself as well i feel myself having these conversations and being very like emotional and like loud voiced about it so i also am gravitating towards places that allow me to be critical of things that we generally accept to be just the way it is. And I'm like, because we are all striving and hashtag grinding independently, like it is worth saying,

like the way that the people who are very, very successful, they're not necessarily doing the best. And it does also tamp down other people. For example, when shows, when podcasts sound bad i'm like man i know how to do that i can make it not sound bad and i appreciate people that allow me to be critical of it instead of me like hey this is like a pause the only zone don't be negative and yeah it can be difficult sometimes it's kind of like gatekeeping in any community. It's kind of like how if somebody you know gets into gaming,

there's that tiny instinct that every single person on Reddit has where you go, but it's mine and I worked so hard on it and this is the right way to like this thing. It can sometimes be difficult to hear somebody say, no, I just don't prioritize that kind of thing with my audio. And it's not objectively wrong if it's working but you develop a kind of pridefulness especially if you hang your and then imagine me like putting my hands in the air like in an arch and a rainbow appearing

identity yeah i i mean that's definitely something that i have struggled with for a long time and i think trying to separate my identity as a person from my creative identity, from the way that I feel when I see others succeed in my field that I am inadvertently going to compare myself to. So like when I was starting on YouTube, a big chip on my shoulder I had was like,

I feel like my content holds a candle to the people who I see succeeding on this platform. Why am I not succeeding? And I think that one way to take that is like, you know, the system is working against me, like these people suck or whatever, like looking for their faults, but also like recognizing that there's kind of a big soup of factors that contribute to any anything success. And we don't live in a meritocracy and simply by being better, that doesn't guarantee that I'll be successful. And also like caring about perfection and making my craft better doesn't necessarily like, like at a certain point that has to be for me because I know it's not a requirement to be good

and to make the perfect like production. That's not a requirement for success. I, if ever I find myself like obsessing over that because I want to identify as someone who makes good stuff, I have to recognize that I'm doing it for me and not because i think it's a requirement to to get on and then you can review and say okay is this necessary or not and even if it isn't is it serving a part of me that i do want to kind of say and it's okay to do that you just have to be healthy and acknowledge that you don't only do things that are completely essential eric can i throw to you my friend my son oh sorry i didn't want to reveal that in the show hi i'm your father happy father's day to me that's true i actually sorry i'm not your father

i'm your daddy terrible especially happy zahra's day can i just throw it to you like you mentioned that being jewish and it sounds like also a creator and maybe just a New Yorkian in general is a go to. Hey, this is my identity and how I self-identify and probably what I want to share with people as soon as possible. How would you phrase that specifically? Almost like a job title. I am chief executive content Jewish man. Yeah. I mean, it's the way that I would like to identify myself.

I think it's the thing that I lead with. And I thought it was also nice because, again, I don't always get to, like, say that explicitly, although it definitely feels like the way that I look through the world. It is difficult, though, and I think that this applies to literally all three of us because Jarvis' career is YouTuber and Jordan and my career is is parts of podcast and media new and like small businesses is that like it is nice being able to say all the things to people who understand what you're saying because like I when I if I'm trying to explain

this to other people about what I do it's like I'm the head of creative so it makes it sound pretty cool and big and but what is creative even mean and then also i want to talk about the shows that i'm doing to demonstrate that there is a tangible way to talk about that and also like if you know what dungeon dragons is being a dm on a dungeon dragons podcast is a difficult and a cool feat to have done so that's how i lead and introducing and

then with this new thing with next stop is that I'm very proud of the creation that we've done with this. So it's like I've also written a audio sitcom, which was a sitcom that was made explicitly for podcasting. So I'm very invested in my audio placement. And like I want my podcast community, my podcast company to do well. And I hope that it's growing. So I would like to lead with all

those things I mean I definitely because I'm the creative person and head of creative in multitude like Amanda McLaughlin is our CEO so she has like business she's the business person and Brandon Grugel who is our head of production he's like I know how to make things sound good in both production and post-production reasons. So when I say creative, that is so ephemeral. So I feel like I need to stake my claim. It's in the way that I like, you know, anyone, if you go up to anybody, they're like, hey, could you write a novel? And they're like, yeah, I'll fucking write a novel.

It's like that is like, no, but like I spent a lot, so much time thinking about these creative things and I've done these creative things that i'm very proud of so i really want to stake my claim in it i guess i already feel defensive of it because getting to a place where i am now head of something when i was not head of something and i was kicked down for various reasons i just like i'm already defensive of it so i want to show that i'm doing the right you have a portion of your personality or like, I don't like the term brand, but I'm using it just because it's like easily accessible. Personal self-identified brand or ego. And I mean ego in the purely scientific sense. Sure. That you wouldn't tie directly to your work.

And that's obviously might be very difficult to do. But independent of what you do or independent of the things you want to make or even being a creator what are and it doesn't have to be pieces you like but hey this is my identity i identify as this type of human being yeah i think that they're all very much tied up in the things i think that since i make a lot of things i feel very tied in with them because it also is very storytelling based all the things that I'm doing are rather storytelling based I do take pieces of myself and put it in there like the ways that I feel like I'm funny the ways that I relate to conflict the ways that I think I can amuse an audience is also how I socialize and who I'm

like and how I'm in with other relationships that I have, both like my family, my friends romantically. So it's just hard. I feel like it's all very wrapped up in this, especially because I feel like I'm throwing so much of myself and multitude. I mean, Amanda and I live four blocks away from our studio, which is good. And and the fact that we I've been able to come to the studio during quarantine because it's part of our quarantine zone and we're like the only people who come in here like i love that i have that workspace because me being stuck in apartment would be terrible but at the same time it's like i know i'm so wrapped up in my creativeness but jay i know you you're like the rest of us where you basically get like anxiety from not

having published something as if that's almost like submitting a census like putting out a new video is like hey i'm alive and i still exist and matter and here's my expression of that and if it's been what was the longest stretch you've gone recently without putting something out oh me oh my like not not a long time day and a half man i'll have to think about it Maybe like I'd say like conservatively less than two weeks. You know, something I'm thinking about with regard to identity is like there's a split between like the for me aspect of identity and the for them aspect of identity. So I think about like when I introduce myself at a party, I would say that like, and I think of this because Eric, you were kind of like, you know, my job is as a YouTuber and that's true, but I don't personally identify

as a YouTuber, you know, like when I think about myself, because, you know, when you meet someone, there's all of these like shortcuts that we take to like make inroads in a, you know, human connection where it's like, what are you about? What do you do? And it's like, okay, well, I'm going to define myself by what I do for the sake of this conversation. But is it even healthy to define myself by what I do? Or is what I do and how I define myself in these situations a shortcut. You know, when I worked in engineering and when I worked in like the software industry, it was very convenient and easy in San Francisco to define myself as a software engineer

because I knew that there was enough shared understanding of what that meant for like a conversation to move forward. So it's like, I can just be like, hey, I'm a software engineer. Cool, moving on. Everybody's like, I know enough about that. I've got a good enough picture in my head. Let's go on to what, I can now accept you as a human and we can continue like having this interaction.

Let's move on to the critical details or at least what we're here to do. Yeah, yeah. Or for whatever reason, it felt like a prerequisite to having a good time. You know, it's like, I want to see how we can connect and how we can identify with each other such that this connection is built

and then we can like, yeah, move on. But one large struggle that I had in, you know, moving to LA and leaving Patreon and starting to do YouTube full time is that that question became much harder for me to answer. I eventually settled on like, oh yeah, I make videos on the internet or I make videos on YouTube or whatever, but that doesn't actually satisfy me personally in my head. Cause I think about all like at the same time time I think about all the other things I want to be doing and I also think of myself as being in this state of searching for my own identity and

like an identity that's like very personal to me which I don't think I have an answer to sure like I don't know what I am because I don't think that what I make is a perfect replacement for like what I am, obviously. Right. Do you feel like that became even more of a challenge post-move to LA or is it all sort of the same sweep? What I think is that it used to be a conundrum or a open question that I never had to grapple with. I think that like working in like a nine to five situation, working in a environment where there were enough people who shared my job that I never had to really answer the question of like how I identify because I kind of fit neatly into an existing social structure that didn't ask very much of me whereas now it's not so much that there's more

being asked of me but in the absence of a social structure to fit into because I think that like there's a lot of like hand wavy like amorphous aspects of how I live my life now. It's bringing that question more to the fore. And I'm having to say like who am I? How do I identify as myself? And like what do I want to make? What do I want to be known for? How do the things that I do contribute to my identity? Like these are all like very arresting questions for me and weigh me down sometimes

more than when I could just say like, ah, I just, I I'm a software engineer. Let's move on. Now I don't even have to like think about these questions. That's, that's, that's one thing that's been on my mind lately with regard to, with regard to identity, because I feel like I'm very much searching for like how i identify right now in my life i would say that the only reason why i said youtuber is also for when in that point is like do we want to have this conversation with others explaining what our jobs are and like the only time that i want to is when i'm like oh no i'm good at my job and i would like you to hear about it like jordan i don't even know what you say your job is

because you're trying to avoid the conversation sincerely yeah for me the shorthand is more often than not creator in some spaces especially coming from the Patreon environment where pretty much everybody we know through that uses that as a shorthand for 90% of things you would do even related to YouTube or podcasting or anything like that creator is like a nice shorthand it's certainly preferable to content creator uh which yeah can just can just go straight into a grave i hate that everything about the 10 is so unvibrant though outside of the context of patreon creator does feel a little like holy or holy like where it's like i am the creator i bring i bring to life things that previously did not exist i yeah i couldn't get alfred omega to catch on so i go with it's like bards in dungeons and dragons is like no i'm the bard i my music and art is magic and it does things i it's funny you

actually because i have sort of had this forced ego death over the last five months. Oh, that's the name of my garage metal band. Yeah, forced ego death? Yeah, well, I was forced to listen to that EP, and it slaps my man. It's funny, because my band's name is Elective Ego Death. Nice. We both play eight-stringed bass in our band. It's true eight stringed bass only only yeah no amp no no amp it's just unamplified bass recorded on a blue yeti from 15 feet away i gotta tell you though that

eighth string that's where the creation happens that's that's where it because you know anybody can play a seven string bass or even god forbid a six string that's where the secret h note is right yes it's true scales were never the same but like sincerely i i also used to use the reference point of oh will i make this show or i work in this space or I put most of my time in this area or I help start this business or I'm even just oh god knows but I'm trying my best and here's a thing that I'm doing now I've truly truly over the last few weeks especially as the vagueness of when I'm going to be able to get an embassy appointment and I could be getting back to the US in 2021 I could be getting back on Thursday right it's just like so vague and I haven't published anything

as cynical as that sounds I haven't put out tent in the best part of I don't know like outside of sad boys in fact sad boys was the first thing in really like this year because time was eaten up with work stuff but now that I've come back to the UK the time zone means that I can't do my job atypical work the kind of overwhelming depression that I had for the first four months meant that i couldn't do really anything else i was making music because that was easy to do when i was crying but then the doing arcs especially where it's hours and hours of listening to the friends i can't see was just impossible and now i find i've been able to kind of break the seal on it again because it's an optimistic feeling now i'm excited to do it again and we might be might try recording remotely so at least there's something to aspire to yeah but even doing that and having not put it out I can't remember the Jordan I was

six months prior genuinely I'm not being like overly dramatic or anything in that range I I've burned through most in fact I finished it a few hours ago, The Last of Us 2, and I genuinely cried. Big mood, big experience. And that was the first time in a really long time where I've absorbed a piece of media that I cared about. A piece of work that I was excited to listen to and that resonated with me on some level more important than, hey, distract me from my general malaise. And once i'd finished it i was suddenly motivated to try and do something i like opened up the arcs file and i opened up my visa paperwork and i think the reason was i was reminded of what it feels like to connect

with something and i think more often than not if you're identifying be it through your career creativity or something else like if you're identifying through your athleticism or you're identifying through what you wear the comforting thing is having like some third party thing tell you who you are in a good way like if i would have re-listened to an odd episode of arcs which i can't do because i just i listen to the mixing issues i would get a little boost i listen to the the track sometimes listen to the songs it gives me a oh yeah wait no jordan who is 62 brown british and sounds like me did make that so i have to assume that i jordan now five nine i don't know what happened brown british well it's because you took off your you took off the platforms you were wearing while you were standing on my wallet bro it's empty but it's very big i had lots of coins in there yeah i got

a couple dimes if you know what i'm saying a few hundred times nine and a half but i as a result i'm now i don't know man i to be completely honest with you maybe i'm overhyping how much i've healed there's still a big part of me that doesn't have any idea who i am because as much as i maybe wouldn't like to be this way i justified myself through my work for a few years and then i justified myself through my output for another two years and frankly even before that i justified or like i don't know validated myself through the idea that i got to move to america like albeit maybe not the most enviable thing right now there was a point in my life where it was like yeah fuck you kid they just kept calling me the n-word look what i did look where you are i don't actually know but i assume

it's not here and i yeah that was something and for the last what five months ish yeah i've just had no reference point i've had like no all i have is anecdotes about a guy called jordan that i used to like as opposed to dude i've tried sitting down and doing something so many times recently yeah do you remember that sitting down with an intent down and doing stuff i don't know man and it working kind of it's scary to and i and i think not always the best um hot take to define yourself by what your output is even though it can feel like the easiest thing or like the closest thing to you to identify with. Easy is the operative word. It's right there.

Yeah. And because in absence of creating things, it sort of triggers this stranger in a strange land, like searching for meaningness because it's like, well, I don't make anything. So do I even exist right like and I definitely felt like that whenever I'm you know between projects and like not feeling inspired it's like I feel almost invisible sometimes or like absent in identity to speak of and then I'll get like a nice message or something from someone on the internet who's like I've consumed the hours of content that you have made on the video sharing website, YouTube, and I connect with it and you make me feel good. And I'm like, what, what, who are you talking

about? What are you talking about? This guy sounds great. I know. And then I'll like go to my, you know, YouTube watch page and I'll be like, I've made almost 120 minute videos, you know, and that's insane to me. With like an OK hit rate. I know. It's crazy. I would say honestly, man. And I mean, some of them are like pretty good. Thank you. I depreciate that. Also, if I could just wait in here for a second. Some of them good good shit good

yeah some of them are videos they do legally the supreme court recently ruled that some of my youtube videos are in fact videos yeah it's true it was really tough when ruth bitter ginsburg gave that scathing just scathing rebuttal i know but if you read the majority opinion by john roberts he did side with the the legal definition of videos which my self-described videos do fall within which yeah pretty spicy though when rbg hit you with oh another life hack video i know i know that was tough it was really tough that porn hub levied this against you porn hub v jarvis you never would have expected it you know i I don't like the guy, but Brett Kavanaugh really did come to my defense.

All right, and scene. Well, you're a guy who likes to drink beer, right? And apparently watch a Lifehack video. So he's a simple man. I know we've touched on it very briefly about the gatekeeping stuff, but I guess like a part of gatekeeping is kind of valid when it's your work

and somebody's trying to go through the door and tell you how to do it or make a statement as to the quality of it we javis you touched on like right before we were talking about like if you get a comment saying there's the like hey you're milking this thing but then there's also a framed almost like it's constructive criticism from a veteran of the industry yeah yeah it's like that's the comments that are often left by justice neil guch on my videos where, yeah, he's just always like, hey, man, I know you probably haven't thought about this, but did you know that you could make a pun in your video title? And most of the time I've thought about it before and I'm like, you know, your honor, I I've decided to go a different direction. My leash. My leash. your honor i i've decided to go a different direction um my leash my leash eric do you have like a forum for that kind of like i guess it's just like i don't spend a lot of time or at least

like i haven't opened as many venues for conversations about arc stuff you you're like a lot better about engaging with during the party stuff than me do you get a lot of hey here's how you can do better and i know what i'm talking about because I did listen to the show. That's an interesting question. First of all, I really wanted to make a joke about Sonia Sotomayor. I know, I'm holding in the Sotomayor reference. Yeah, but it was really great that she put Jarvis on the YouTubers reacting to YouTubers video

she was putting together. I'm just imagining our demographic, which is a person who just is about to finish high school wearing a Rick and Morty t-shirt staring at their phone right now. What is this? But this is why I'm in favor of expanding the Supreme Court because I just need more opinions on my content. I need more Zoomers to get into the Supreme Court. It's interesting that you say that. I think that sometimes I get that,

but I think that with podcasting, there is no comment section. So inherently, Jarvis, I know that you get it a lot more. In Twitter, sometimes people snipe at you on Twitter and people love podcasters of subtweeting each other about it. So we do get it. I think in the encompassing the incredibly large conversation that we had here, it took a really long time for me to carve out my place that I was good at creative things.

I should be put in charge of them and I should be trusted that I'm going to do the best out of everybody because I had other jobs that were really tough that I was working at a media company and it's just like trying to prove to someone that I knew how to write better than other people. And they're like, no, I can write this. Like, hey, I should be writing this marketing email or I should be writing this script. And be like, no, I'm going to give it to this person for another reason. Especially if you don't have the arbitrary credentials that everything else has been operating on like right yeah but you need the 11 years of having pretty much no impact and then we'll listen to

you right or even just like for bullshit reasons because i think that this is tied to me being someone that is openly critical and wants to change things and saying it loudly yeah right and that is like i do feel like because that is like, I do feel like, because I led with this, I do feel like that's a part of my identity and also my Jewishness in some way, being a loud person who's critical in hopefully a positive way.

What is this? You're going to send it? I'm going to send it back. There we go. That was my requisite thing. Good. I did it. Me and Jarvis just sitting with our hands on our laps,

like saying, yes, this is a reference that i'm just not going to get involved with with the pieces that are okay to say that's okay when you guys did said the stuff about you being like the hat you're combined half white person and half black person i was like this is funny and i'm going to tell them it's funny but i'm not going to add anything i mean i will say i'll say it off my patreon only yeah where eric just goes off when jordan and i do the fusion dance we spawn a kkk member and the black panther party um what party of the movie sorry we should say so yeah the thing i just i felt like i was really put into a box and felt like oh this is the rabble rouser this is like a malcontent and like fuck what he has to say and you're gonna give it to

somebody else and i feel like i spent a lot of time and now in multitude as head of creative i'm like i promise i will use my abilities to make your show better. Like I'm not, don't even put my name on it. I'm just going to like give you some secret edits and then like, hopefully like change this, change this structure, like do a new segment, just do that. And hopefully I can make it better. And maybe I'll like come up with some episode stuff for you because like, I see myself as this creative person and it's taken me a really long time to stake this claim so i just i feel very wrapped up in it because i feel like one is storytelling is a part of me but two i have

invested so much time into getting to it this to a place where i feel like i can be who i want to be and i'm finally doing the thing i'm good at and people are recognizing me for it. So like I, Jordan and both of you, Jarvis, you saying the thing about creating and how it's not always for other people and you can't just tie yourself to creation. I a hundred percent hear you, but I feel like the good thing that I'm good at is creating things. And I like that I'm now being recognized for it.

And I feel very proud of that. Yeah. There's nothing inherently wrong with like external validation and that's what it is like your work is effectively and the reception of that work is basically just a person coming up to you and saying hey buddy you did it he is yeah i like you i exist you put me out and i got lots of praise or even just a crisp handshake but as i think i'm exemplifying at the moment if you don't have that or you don't have the output that's keeping you stable or i would put work in the same place frankly, if you don't have that or you don't have the output that's keeping you stable or I would put work in the same place, frankly.

Like if you like what you're doing, you're proud of what you do, it fills a lot of the same void. Not having those at the moment, I genuinely, it's like I don't have a friend who's telling me that I'm good. It's the strangest thing. And it's like a very specific type of friend.

It's almost like a spouse telling me I'm good. Well, I've experienced this very strange phenomenon where i've become like very numb to external validation where yeah like i am reaching the point in my creative career where there are lots of like cool neat things happening where it's like i i'm nominated for awards or like people want to talk to me about stuff. And it's strangely difficult to take it in. Yeah, it doesn't stick. And actually like acknowledge it in a way that like gives it the gravity that like it deserves. In a way that like if I were looking outside, if I were an outsider looking at myself or a friend or a fan, I wouldn't, I would see it as just purely a good thing. But for whatever reason, maybe it's just like where I'm at.

And maybe it's like this, I like need to be more comfortable with internally validating myself. There's something about it that just doesn't connect. Like, like a couple things come to mind. It has a shelf life. It's almost like a drug where you'll build up tolerance over a certain amount of time. And then you either become dependent on it and it destroys your life. Or you have to build up an immunity to it and then try something else. And, you know, sometimes on those lower days, man, and the Vicodin isn't working. It's like, what the hell do I do?

Well, a few things come to mind for me. Like a couple of experiences where, like, one, I got for like YouTuber of the year or something at the Shorty Awards. You're welcome. And I. Wait, Jordan, did you say you're welcome? Jordan did. Yeah. And it was something that like I saw and almost like took for granted because I was like, you know, this isn't that big of a deal.

I'm definitely not going to win, blah, blah, blah. I'm not even going to try to like campaign for it because it was one of those type of situations. And my girlfriend was like, what are you talking about? Like this is a great thing. And I'm just like – like there's something about this that like just doesn't connect with me and i think it's because where i'm at now i'm seeking validation from like very either if i'm seeking validation externally it's from very specific sources like i want it from my friends and i want it from peers who i respect in the industry but if i just get it from like a random person on the street it doesn't affect me or even

like an institution that I just like I'm not sure you know I don't I don't have a background with like getting invited to be a feature creator at VidCon was like a big deal for me because I like had a lot of personal stake in like VidCon as a as an entity and like had a personal like relationship with it and it was also like the catalyst for me starting my youtube channel and so like there's a there's personal meaning there but kind of feels the same as when i would get praise at at work like at patreon i you know we have um what are they called peer reviews or whatever where like peers say stuff and i never got a negative peer review i like always had like really really positive like reviews and it never felt like anything it never felt that good it just felt

like a relief it was like oh well of course i'm like you know a great person to work with like moving on you know what i mean and and i could never sort of take that in and actually like appreciate it. Yeah. It's like a blood test. It's like, okay, good. Something isn't bad. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Because I'm like preparing for the bad and it's almost like I expect the most from myself. And so anything short of perfection is a failure. And so even though there are like things that are really, really good, if I can find a fault in anything, it almost allows me to sort of take away the power that any like praise has, which sucks. Like I want to be able to like relish the moments and all the nice things, but it's so easy for me to disqualify them. And that's interesting. That's interesting for me. So it kind of makes all the like personal identity questions and stuff more urgent for me or more pressing to find the answers to, or at the very least be appreciative of the journey that I'm on, because I don't know that I'll get the answers in short order. So it's like a matter of like recognizing that i'm on this like journey of

self-discovery and also appreciate the journey itself um rather than like the the destination because you know according to the hedonic treadmill none of these like destinations will actually like grant me any any of the reward that that i'm seeking eric do you get like the same like catharsis and support from the more businessy occupational part of your work as you do from the creative side i don't know specifically what you do but i mean on occasion working super super hard on a spreadsheet actually can feel kind of validating. No, for sure. I think what's interesting about what you're saying, Jarvis, and what I am looking for in that way is that it's not just numbers. Because if you were just like, oh, yeah, views don't do it for me anymore.

I'd be like, yeah, I totally agree with that. Because especially in podcasting, in my head, like YouTube views are like substantial. It's like there are grains of sand at least coming into an hourglass and then they pile up. Right. But like in podcasting, it just downloads me nothing because no one like has any sort of idea of what data is and what it's supposed to mean. So like getting to that to a place where we get to do more things or make more money or have larger exposure to do cooler shit like that's the stuff that i'm reaching for and there is no ladder it's all just like eventually you it's like imagine you're just like flailing your arms you're flailing your arms in a lake and then when you

finally figure out the combination of movements your body needs to do then you start to swim but no one can tell you what swimming looks like yeah we're supposed to do just like touching on that is there a show that feels independent of listenership obviously i don't know what listenership is in general but like is there a show that you tie your ego most directly to or gives you the most external support is it jtp yeah i think for external support definitely um i would like to be recognized as someone who runs an incredible Dungeons & Dragons podcast and are given's so much just and Dimension 20 there's like so much to strive for and I want to be I want that recognition but also I would like it turn into like the numbers turning into things that are actually things that could change my life those are the things that I am now striving for. I have now rationalized this into my head, that life would be very much easier if Join the Party was bigger by a factor of two. Because then ads would sell for more money than my personal and the show's and Multitude's profile would all be bigger,

and that would be better for in various ways, like from a money perspective and also opportunities and building on all that stuff. Right. So it's just hard. It't mean to compare YouTubing and podcasting, but they're so similar but so different in so many ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One's much harder and more impressive. Not going to tell you which one. I think we're both in agreement. Podcast discovery is shit. So it's like there's no way for someone to find your show other than very serendipitous ways or a continuous word of mouth yeah discovery is like flailing your arms in the lake and you like go up it's like you just go out of the water and float up like wait what that doesn't correlate

to what i was doing at all it's like how did you figure out how to swim how are you on the on the shore like what did you do and they're like i don I don't know, man. I flailed my arm. It's like, I'm flailing my arm. Exactly. Yeah. I definitely, there's a lot of parallels with YouTube to that, to that feeling. And I'm not saying that like you have gamed the, I do not want to say. Oh, no. Well, that's, that's like another thing too. Well, like you, you're not saying that, but there is like a lot of, you know, it's like,

I have like spoken at like VidCon with YouTube, like about analytics and like the YouTube algorithm and stuff like that. And people are like, oh, you've like hacked the system. And it's like, what's the secret? And it's like, well, to be honest, the secret is that people click on my videos and watch them for a really long time. You know what I mean? Like that's the secret. It's the same kind of toxic idea that art can't touch commerce or tactics yeah without being compromised it's hey you sold out because you made a business decision that

didn't yeah influence the thing that you made but because they touched each other you're less of an artist and i respect your thing less somehow my favorite critique that i get is that i sold out by making the videos i make now and not the tech videos because the tech videos were where I was really, really trying. It's like, bro, I made tech videos because Mayuko's first video got a million views. You know what I mean? And I was like, oh, I would like views, please. I guess I'll do what Mayuko's doing.

But now you're enough of a coward to make the thing you want to. Yeah, how dare I? But, you know, Eric was talking about like receiving validation for within your industry being recognized like for what you do specifically in the world of like D&D pods and stuff. And I definitely relate to that a lot. And it sucks because it does feel completely out of my control. Like the numbers feel like they might lead to something. But more than anything, I just want to feel like more of a member of the community of like they might lead to something, but more than anything, I just wanna feel like more of a member of the community of like commentary YouTube.

And I just wanna be like friends and feel like respected by people whom I respect on the platform. And that's tough because I'm completely out of control of it. Like it's totally, you know, it's totally exponential and, or excuse me, external, not exponential. Um, and the most insidious part of that is that I will create narratives in my head about, you know, what other, you know, peers in, in my like space on YouTube think of me and stuff. And then I'll think that like, they don't think I am, you know,

as good or as worthy as them or what have you. Yeah. Go in poet, spit, tell them. And it'll all be about like whether or not they're interacting with my like tweets and shit like that. And it's all this like complete narrative building. And then I'll get like a like on a tweet from somebody who i didn't know was like reading my tweets or like adam savage from mythbusters they'll follow me on twitter and i'm like i didn't know these people were like paying attention to me you know what i mean like i didn't actually know that i was making a difference you

know adam savage is doing an episode about you yeah yeah does jarvis exist is his girlfriend real yeah let's let's bust the myth. We're going to shoot Jarvis out of a cannon from 100 feet away. Tested. Are YouTubers denser than other real humans? Yeah, or like iDubbbz will follow me on Twitter and I'll be like, what? You're like aware that I'm a person? Do you remember that party we went to where iDubbbz was there?

And I just like turned to you and I was like are we like supposed to be here what's funny too is that like idubbbz is like currently being cancelled by his like toxic male fan base for saying like sex work is work and like having a girlfriend supporting a significant other having a girlfriend with an only fans it's the most weird ass shit like i i i just cannot youtube is so fucking strange but anyway wait can i jar i don't i don't mean to cut you off but i feel like i have a question that maybe might orient this yeah do you guys ever go to your the people who you consider to be trusted people do you be like hey can say, like, a few nice things about me to validate these things? Oh, that's a great idea. One time, like, I didn't think that, like, I idolized, like, Hank and John Green as a child, as a young one, and have, like, watched their videos since I was, like, 13 years old.

And I, like, had a number of conversations with John, so I was confident he knew who I was. But at the end of last VidCon, like, Hank came over to me and was like, hey, Jarvison gave me a hug. And I was like he knew who I was. But at the end of last VidCon, Hank came over to me and was like, hey, Jarvison gave me a hug. And I was like, hold the phone. Why do you know who I am? And also, why haven't you followed me on Twitter? You've had so many opportunities. I know-

And you've run out of them. I know I'm showing up in your feed all the time. So many members of your company follow me and they're liking my stuff. Why haven't you given me this validation that I have created that i need in my brain you're whispering this in in his ears he hugged you yeah i feel that way about brendan lee mulligan who runs dimension 20 yeah and like he's just so talented and we had him on join the

party because i'm like i would love to interview him about this most recent game and we talked and we like we pretty much vibed and knowing that someone who's amazing at dming also respected that of me but it's just like this one moment that is like recorded and everything yeah and i was losing my mind and i'm like i have i have no idea how to continue this and even though he said really nice things about me when we were talking it was definitely like an enclosed interview media moment yeah and i'm like'm not going to be able to turn him into a friend. Like, I don't even know how I would even I would like to because I think he's a great guy in so many ways. But like I emailed him, I wrote up this guide to turning Dungeons and Dragons into a superhero type game, which is what I'm doing for this season of Join the Party.

And I came up with a bunch of stuff. And it's all about like the philosophy of D&D and removing the genre from the game mechanics, and I came up with all these subclasses. Is this public yet? We're selling it Tuesday, so it will be by tomorrow. So I'm really proud of it, and he had said how much he was really stoked about the campaign because it's set in upstate New York, and he's from upstate New York, and he was totally vibing on it. So I emailed him, and I'm like, hey, if you want to take a look at this it's fine

and he didn't email me back which like I understand because like he's dealing with a lot of stuff and like I don't expect him to email me back but it's like I don't even know how to turn something that I saw as validation into like an actual relationship and like I don't trust Brennan

to like buoy my thoughts and feelings so I feel like I rely on the people who I trust, which is like Amanda. And I force Brandon to say it to me sometimes. It's like, can you just like say some nice things about the things that I make? Like, can you just do that? That would be so nice. Yeah. I'll be honest, Eric.

When I did your Pokemon podcast, what's your favorite Pokemon? And then I say something nice about you. Is that the exact thing? That is. That's the title. Hell yeah. And it's the best episode of that.'ll you'll be able to tell there's yeah where we just talked about super smash brothers and not pokemon yeah wait a pokemon in something else i think maybe did you

no that's not right no that's no no they're just monsters jigglypuff is the champion oh it's the only digimon i you said something really nice about me near the end and it was so beautiful and lovely sincere and i also was not expecting it at all i actually i don't know if you didn't mention it or if i just forgotten that was a component of the show so i was overwhelmed with love and fulfillment for the first and last time in my life and when you said that i was at i don't know i was like maybe a week out from the worst depression i've had in like five years like the certainly the worst depression i've had since i started medication it was like some next level shit and then i'd had a conversation with my psych

ultimate medication it was helping but this was i don't know maybe like eight weeks after the move and this was long before i got my visa confirmed so this was like a straight up i don't think i am going anywhere i am quarantined and sharing a room with my cousin right now oh my god i have a place i could go stay but i literally can't go that it was just like a complete nightmare scenario and you said that and that genuinely i know it by no means you were trying to have this amount of weight on my life but that was like a snowballing cascade of like oh yeah no i'm i can be loved sometimes for certain reasons no i think that related to what jarvis said before and i feel the same way sometimes things don't stick yeah things that should be positive don't stick on me no so sometimes i need to either you either need to be validated by someone very very big or someone who

means a ton to you or someone who you trust that isn't bullshitting yeah of course and i'm so glad that you felt that this was genuine but it's like if i go to that amanda well too much i worry myself yeah that like i have asked her too many times to say nice things about me no but people too external validation specifically from people you love. Yeah. Asking unconditionally, not trying to fish for it, just straight up saying, hey, can you please give this to me? Can you please provide this wonderful service? Yeah. I think that's the drug you never become inoculated to. I think that always has value.

Again, the thing that you don't want to do is ask for someone because then it feels like petty. Yeah. But I'm sure that it must have been great because you forgot that i was going to say something nice to you at the end of this thing yeah i thought i'd be the one episode you didn't uh yeah i mean it reminds me jordan of uh like basically any time we are having a heart to heart and like we're exchanging nice things about one another it's like always unexpected and always like hits me in a very genuine way that i'm like, feel seen in a, in a way that like, I forgot that I could be, if that makes sense, you know, it's like, Oh, I am contributing. It's like, people tell me that I'm contributing

positively to their lives, but I don't know them or I take it for granted or something. And there's something about like not expecting it from someone that you you know genuinely care about where it's just like whoa like come you come down to earth for a second and go maybe maybe i do hold value i mean seriously i don't have any siblings but you know this i continue to be like a brother partially because the love is at this point pretty much unconditional so i don't have to say nice things about you yeah you know what i mean like i don't get there's no like merit or benefit i get from being arbitrarily nice or supporting you yeah yeah there's just like and i think that's maybe why it doesn't happen as much as as it would otherwise right as we go like oh sorry yeah me saying

something nice to you would mean a lot yeah yeah because even at our lowest points we would even forget that the other person thought that we absolutely slapped i had a um experience where i just hold on i just want to say as the person who just saw this from the outside that was really sweet yeah that's what this podcast is about uh i feel like i just like i just like where i just wormed my way into this hug you know i'm like i'm like yeah. You're an emotional voyeur. Oh, yeah. I'm saying emotional. Oh, yeah, that's right.

Love each other unconditionally. Yeah, that's me and what I want people to take away from this episode. Like, I'm one of those people who, like, externally, like, seems like they have it all together. But, like, you know, I have my own insecurities and problems and things. And like one of the problems with externally coming off as composed or whatever is that, you know, people just assume you're fine all the time. And I have a hard time like saying that I'm not. And I think that like I had this, you know, moment where I was expressing to a friend that like I, you know, they assume I'm always fine. And I'm like, you know, well, I'm always fine. And I'm like,

you know, well, I'm not. And then they like said really nice things about me. And I like broke down in tears because I was just like, I didn't know that's how you felt about me. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't know that that's what you thought. And even though I would have every reason to believe you did think that way, I didn't assume it because of like the way my brain works and hearing it explicitly had like such a, a powerful impact on me. So you never know, like say nice things to your friends.

You never know how it's going to like affect them. I don't know if there are names people want to shout out, but I, I think it'd be kind of nice if we each do that for like a person that's outside of the three of us, like somebody that said something like that to them recently. Because I want to give a shout out to Nora. This was actually like a while back.

I unfortunately haven't seen Nora for a while. She now lives in Scotland. I suppose I could see her, but I haven't. When I lived in San Francisco, we used to hang out as a group pretty consistently. And I don't remember when this was but it was at a point in my life where i felt a little overly reliant on exactly what you're describing jarvis like hey i can i can feel safe and fulfilled as long as i always come off that way just entirely isn't the case because you're basically just burying it and then using the fact that people

around you aren't observing you that way i'll fake it until i i'll fake it until i make it and by make it i mean until i have an emotional break and i remember there was this one time where we were just all we'd all popped out for drinks after work and i was totally burned out and all i wanted to do was go home and have a quick rest and then maybe meet them afterwards but i didn't feel like that fit with my external brand Like I play extra But absolutely am not So I tried to condition myself To be like oh you know do I have something else going on Am I busy and I was like running it through my brain

And Nora I mean this is like 2017 This is how long this stuck with me She just said something in the realm of like She just came up to me while everybody else was chatting Walking down the street and she was like Do you want to like head home soon I know you need That sort of time between stuff like this and i was totally floored by nora because i i had not put that out at all yeah quite like unfortunately kind of the opposite

but i didn't like telegraph that or say it in like a moment of weakness and stuff with her it was just like a really really elegant read And I, that and like a few other instances in that particular year stick with me as like break glass for emergency support kind of memories. You guys have anything like that? Well, I would say like the thing that I just described, but then I would also want to give a shout out to my friend Mayuko, who's always been like a super duper supportive uh friend and always there for me and even though like she just moved to san diego actually but since i moved to la we haven't kept as in close contact but it's been so nice to sort of have that support and i would also say uh of my friend alexis um who's always just been very unconditionally supportive of me. And it's just, it goes a long way. I'll give actually also a shout out to both of them,

but especially to Alexis, because Alexis, we worked on the exact same team at Patreon. I think she joined about a year before I left. And that's obviously why I had to get the hell out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the, no, she was, there were specifically portions before I left, unrelated to Patreon,

where I was just having some really, really difficult mental spaces. And I remember multiple occasions where I would have a meeting with Alexis or even just a brief conversation, and it bolstered me through it. And I don't think she knew she was doing that at all. But we also went to the Good Mythical Morning or Mythical Entertainment Christmas party, and we went together and we made each other feel less awkward.

Aw. Nice. Alexis is the best, man. Alexis is incredibly good. And she's popping off. And she's popping off. Yeah, she should be. Those videos are amazing.

I actually did just get, I did just hang out with her in San Francisco because I was there to get off my teeth chains. You unlocked your teeth. What Sadie said to me When I got my braces off Was you have teeth And I was like Did I seem toothless Prior to this moment If so

Was she excited about that Or has that become a complication No it seemed like She's genuinely excited I just can't believe She dated me for six months As a toothless man It wasn't more of a

Oh you've got teeth Yeah Oh well That's fine I mean I guess that's okay I guess I can deal I guess it's too fucking late as a toothless man. It wasn't more of a, oh, you've got teeth. Yeah. Oh, well. That's fine. I mean, I guess that's okay. I guess I can deal. I guess it's too fucking late.

It's kind of a red flag that he has teeth. I know. I told myself that I would marry a toothless man. I know. It's like, the way that the world works

falls from us. The witch in the woods told me it must be done. Eric, since we're giving emotional shout outs, do you want to shout anyone out? Yeah. I do have a problem where I feel like, because you're talking about this like unprompted thing, which, you know, it's hard to rely on someone to just tell you the thing that you want to hear.

I would say also open it up to prompted because in a couple of the instances I mentioned, there's also been very like I'm at a low point and I don't know what I need to hear or or I'm asking specifically to hear something. And it's always so I think it's still even if I'm telling someone what I need from them, it's still surprising that someone believes what they're saying. You know what I mean? It's also like, as we said, it's not good that we don't ask enough getting getting it prompted is actually the cooler thing to do i feel like i ask a lot but then i get in my head i'm like oh i asked them is this like hollow is this true dude i'm serious will you text me next time i've got so many nice things to say about you oh i want those i want nice things oh also also shout out uh to my friend anastasia who i work with now um great

friend and also oh and she wanted me to say hi to you eric uh as well yeah anastasia's great but it wasn't that kind of friendly hello that was like a patronizing peer rival kind of thing hello eric it was a it was a scowl from across the room. A leer of sorts. For Anastasia, though, just the way that it happened was every time that horse has gone on Dunktown, I have not been there. Just the way that it happened. When Mike was recording, it was I couldn't do it. And then in L.A., I did not have a free night. And Mike was like, I'm going to go record Dunktown. And I'm like, I just can't.

I can't i can't yeah yeah yeah can i just say every time horse has gone on dunktown it sounds like laura mips like makes no sense yeah quick quick shout out to dunktown um anastasia and agata's wonderful podcast about basketball amazing and and horse as well yeah good very good basketball podcast all around uh so i think it's funny that you said that because i'm almost like i don't know if we i don't know if she believes i'm real like i appreciate that yeah yeah it could be a scowl yeah she did she did ask me to uh get some visual evidence of your existence i wasn't sure why but now that you filled it in for me i think it it makes sense. I want to shout out all the people.

So referencing the Pokemon podcast, what's your favorite Pokemon? And then I say something nice about you was just this quarantine podcast I was making just because I like the thing that I feel like I'm good at is just making things. And it made me feel good to make this and do it weekly and then like say nice things about other people. But I think like all the people who said nice things back to me that because it was not a requirement i think that that was very kind and i definitely could have and i definitely did say you don't have to do this i feel like it's a trap so stop yeah well i mean talk about a better example of i want to get a little emotional boost

from making something i mean that's's like something I wanted to say, which is different than you two, and just the way that I'm wired, is that I feel like I'm good at making things quickly. I view myself like as a short order cook in that way. That is like if someone asked me for a burger, I will give them a burger in 10 minutes. And like, that's the kind of person that I just like being.

I like creating quickly, even if it is or is not healthy, as I'm learning from your Jarvis speak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was just really nice to hear it back. Yeah, it's just... Sometimes it just comes out of nowhere, and it's nice to hear from people. I'm just looking for validation of my ideas a lot, because I feel like sometimes I'm radical in talking about being critical of what I was saying

and when someone just reads like yeah that's true and doesn't give me pushback on it or like tries to tell me well you know you can catch more flies with honey I just appreciate people who hear me and I don't have a specific example because a lot of people a chunk of people do this for me but like I

just really appreciate it and like when i hear then someone's like yeah that's that's crazy i can't believe that happened to you there was something i actually this was this was something in next stop there is a in one of the later episodes there's like a boss character that says like a lot of like does is like doing all this like manipulative like manager stuff to one of the characters and i took that from my life it happened to me when i was at a previous media job and you were a boss no when i was super not a boss and when and brandon was editing it and he was just like i can't believe all of this happened to you and i was like yeah this happened and like brandon and i were working

at the same place but he got a different job and left when some of this stuff happened so just like the validation brandon also he also said a very nice thing to me on on what's your favorite pokemon and this nice things about you he he went out of his way to say a compliment that he was not he don't think he said about me and i thought that was a nice thing to do oh brandon's a good boy yeah i feel like we all have we can all give a shout out to brandon for saying some incredibly thoughtful well phr. Yeah, I feel like we all have, we can all give a shout out to Brandon for saying some incredibly thoughtful, well-phrased, nice thing. I feel like Multitude is all chock full of good peeps. We're trying, man.

Except for that one. Oh, and you know who you are. No need to elaborate. Guys, I'm on this podcast. You don't have to know that. It's Amanda, okay? I'll say it. I'm speaking truth to power right now.

It's Amanda. I'm bunching up. She's being a girl boss. She's spending too much time with that. I said today, cause the girl boss woman got like is got fired from her own company or something. She's like really terrible. She's like a very terrible person. But I,

I messaged her in our industry channel on her Slack and I'm like, Amanda, you could finally be the girl boss. Like it's your time. It's like a sovereignty yeah queen is the throne has been vacated she can be the girl boss yeah that's gonna be a trial by combat you are the next girl boss america's next girl manipulate an antique seller who can best manipulate an antique power structure so yeah just uh shout out shout out to all those people and like yeah hey if you're out there say a nice thing to me

you know what me too i'll take a nice thing yeah say nice things to us i'll take a nice thing. Yeah, say nice things to us. I'll take one nice thing. And if anybody, if I get any more DMs than one, I'll be disappointed in all of you. So coordinate, make sure to only send Jordan one. Please. Because you can all send the same thing if you want. Yeah. Actually, no, specifically send me nice muscles. Just say nice muscles.

Or nice kickflip. Nice kickflip or nice muscles. And please put an emoji and i think you know which one i mean i'll be waiting in the sad boys discord for you to say oh shout outs to i jumped in a sad boys discord voice chat the other day oh really chatting and i jumped in i think i made it weird for a little while they were all like very nice to me and uh they were just very nice i want to give a shout were just very nice. I want to give a shout-out to the Discord. Yeah, I want to give a shout-out to the Join the Party Discord.

They buoy my feelings so much. And they, like, the fact that I know that there's a bunch of people who like my jokes that are all in a place, like, it's just so nice. Oh, my God. I do think that's a great metaphor, the emotional buoy. Help, my feelings are lost at sea. How do I spell this thing? I think this is a great place to, uh, to wrap up actually for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've given some, some great feelings related shout outs. Um, we've been grateful for the people in our lives to say nice words. And if any of you guys don't feel like you have access to nice words being said about you,

feel free to hit me up. I will give you a compliment. I'm chock full of them. Do you have any specific thoughts on my muscles? Not now, Jordan. I'm a little... I've got allyship fatigue. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Sorry. I just ate an energy bar. My allyship is all up. So, Jordan, hey, nice muscle. Yes. And what emoji? Eggplant emoji. You figured it out.

I was going to go with pleading eyes emoji, which, fun fact, on Apple devices, pleading eyes emoji, you can type in, please, sir, and it will come up. Happy Daddy's Day, everybody. I know, right? Please, sir, and it will auto-complete. Happy Daddy's Day, everybody. I know, right? Please, sir. You know if you type in the MySpace version of Raw, R-A-W-R, it pulls up a little line?

That's amazing. Isn't that great? I'm ashamed to know that. Amanda said glomp to me the other day, and I'm like, what cursed runes did you put upon me? You feel the tectonics plate shift as the ancient dragons awaken? Exactly. Shout out to those ancient dragons at the end of Avatar.

The original Firebenders, y'all. Well, I was going to say thanks to Eric, just to give a little compliment for joining us. Thanks. What a silver presence he's brought us. A shining presence. His presence us a shining shining presence his presence is a press my ass yeah gossip gossip love i don't get enough of it yeah whoa uh all i get is these vampires and bloodsuckers that's jay-z's corniest line in rap history eric where can the internet find you if they want to reach you to give you a compliment that is very well your address well you can find me on twitter.com at l underscore

silvero that's el underscore silver oh that is my name if i was a lucha libre wrestler me and eric are part of a club called the bad hard to search verbally which i tried to find it we tried to find it our way if i could hack into the mainframe and go back i'd be like just try eric silver yeah we're in a discord called fuck seo yeah exactly but you can also find all of my shows that i am a part of which is join the party next stop and you can also find all of my shows that I'm a part of, which is Join the Party, Next Stop. And you can find all the shows from Multitude. Just put Multitude into your podcast player and you can find all six of our shows that we do.

Jordan. Hey, what's up, man? How about you? Where can people find you if they want to give you exactly one compliment about your muscles? Well, they'll have to choose one platform that's the problem preferably instagram yeah give them a few options though give them a few options uh you can hit me up on pinterest it's mostly me choosing which calvin and hobbes tattoo i want to get the one where calvin's piercing do that yeah am i kidding no

if you have any suggestions of which jar jar Binks tattoo I should get, am I kidding? Very much not so. Misa, uncomfortable. Misa, ashamed of you. Yeah, hit me up on at Jordan Adika. J-O-R-D-A-N-A-D-I-K-A on everything forever. Always. I love you.

Give me a little online kiss, but it has to be a compliment about my muscles. And you choose an emoji. Eric was wrong. It wasn't the eggplant you pervert yeah you can hit me up on there and i don't really have other things happening arcs your boy's working on it okay do whatever you can i also would love the show to come back and people speaking of people being like very unconditionally nice people still message me about that and it's very nice Jarvis there's a baby hand on your screen I have no idea what you're talking about it's just uh it's just forced perspective haven't you seen the hobbit oh yeah have you seen lord of the rings man thankfully as for me and my regular sized hand thank you very. You can find me on the internet at Jarvis on Instagram and Twitter.

It's just my name. I know I don't have a cool luchador name or anything like that. It's just a vanilla. Oh yeah, so jealous that you just have just your vanilla Jarvis. I'm so idiot. No, I know. Playing the algorithm again. He's playing the algorithm.

I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the other thing? You can check out the Sad Boys Discord. What's the Discord link link jordan if you go to bit.ly sad boys pod you can even do it with caps on the first letter of each one though i wouldn't recommend it if you're feeling randy you feel a little spicy capitals if you're nasty yeah but not but not too many. Not too many caps. And that's it. We end every episode of Sad Boys with a particular phrase. We love you. And we're sorry.

Boom! My name is Jeff. We've done it. We did it. We've done a pod. My name is Jeff. I kind of want to expand that Nani track and like Put something on it I don't know. One piece. Killing is free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Might die. Yeah, you might die. Like a night guy. Kicking Madara.

No lie. Get my third eye. Make them all cry. Like I'm Kaguya. Standing up all high. This ain't a tuning exam, boy. Wasting your damn time. Play me in sugar.

You know I don't fuck around. Boys to men. We going shonen jump. Get that pump. Rebirth fury. Are we growing up? Uh. Trying to get it like I'm Toriyama.

Kishimoto Fujiwara. Uh. Trying to make it like a. Boysiyama Kishimoto Fujiwara Trying to make it like a Boys to men we going shonen jump Get that pump Rebirth fury yeah we growing up Trying to get it like I'm Toriyama Kishimoto Fujiwara Trying to make it like a Manga car

Manga car Manga car Manga car Manga car Manga car I have to think about it.